RV10-Archive.digest.vol-dg
April 07, 2008 - April 15, 2008
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-dg
April 07, 2008 - April 15, 2008
I installed mine after the fact, and was able to do it just fine. I
took a 7/16" drill and went all the way through the Rivethead blocks, as
well as the door frame, so my pins go all the way through and can be
felt out the back side.
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
Rene Felker wrote:
>
> I added the pins after I had completed my door. Worked fine. I rechecked
> them this weekend after hearing about the mid air door departure and the
> adjustment looked fine. Per design the pins do not go all the way into the
> frame, they only go to the edge so that when they are extended they do not
> hit the side of the air frame only the metal block. In normal opening and
> closing I have not had the back pin go outside the guide, but I do have to
> "help" the passenger door sometimes to get rear pin the hole, otherwise it
> will just hit the edge of the block.
>
> Rene' Felker
> RV-10 N423CF Flying
> 801-721-6080
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door seperation for those who don't frequent VAF site
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
Hi Chris,
I'm talking specifically about the need to open the door (in-flight from
the inside) in the event you decide a parachute would fly better than a
disabled airplane.
The guy who built the safety latch (mentioned in the link below) says
that he's tried to disengage it during flight, but it wouldn't budge
because the doors pull out to the point that the latch is pinned-tight.
That's good if you're trying to keep your doors on, but bad if you
choose to open them during flight.
So that was my reference about being locked in.
Now, for the part of avoiding the HS..... Any ideas?
Phil
________________________________
From: Chris and Susie McGough [mailto:VHMUM(at)bigpond.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't frequent VAF
site
Phil not sure what you mean about locked in? There is a small pin -lever
on the ouside that can be moved to disingage in case your in an accident
etc.
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry, Phil <mailto:Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't
frequent VAF site
I'm not sure if I'm going to be a RV-10 parachute wearer-or-not,
but I've wondered about the same thing.
Part of what scares me about the Safety-Latch
(http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=26526) is not
being able to get out. You're literally locked in.
Phil
________________________________
From: John Gonzalez [mailto:indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 1:51 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't
frequent VAF site
While we are in this topic, one additional reason for
considering the wearing of parachutes??? Reason why Oregon Aero is
constructing a different type of seats to handle my Softie parachutes.
Just food for thought. Still have to get out of the plane
without the HS getting you...maybe get out on the side the door came
off, atleast look back first, maybe the whole thing will be missing.
JG
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:48:38 -0400
> From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't
frequent VAF site
>
>
>
> Check out this link
>
> http://ww=============
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Subject: Another fatal crash....
Anyone know who this is?
http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8132249
http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.fox17.com.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 Down in Alabama
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
Bad new in Alabama. An N210HM went down today killing two on-board.
My prayers go out to them and their families.
http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=8132249&nav=0RdE
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=210HM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Subject: Another fatal crash....
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=210HM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Another fatal crash....
Anyone know who this is?
http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8132249
http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.fox17.com.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another fatal crash....
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Michael, I have four flying RV-10s from Tennessee yet none of these
match the description based on ownership as reported by the news.
My prayers go out to the families of those affected.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Another fatal crash....
Anyone know who this is?
http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8132249
http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.f
ox17.com.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McMahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Another fatal crash....
Date: Apr 07, 2008
The crash was my good friend Ham Cartwright and his hanger mate Bob..
He is from our chapter 863 Lebanon,Tn..I understand that they were in IMC
conditions!!!!!
It hurts
John McMahon (RV6 CS)
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:57 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Another fatal crash....
>
>
> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=210HM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:40 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Another fatal crash....
>
>
>
> Anyone know who this is?
>
> http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8132249
>
> http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
>
> http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.fox17.com.shtml
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Another fatal crash....
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Check aircraft registry. N210HM registered to Hermitage TN. H Cartwright jr
and M Cottrell. No airman info on Hamilton Cartwright but plenty on M
Cottrell of TN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Another fatal crash....
Michael, I have four flying RV-10s from Tennessee yet none of these match
the description based on ownership as reported by the news.
My prayers go out to the families of those affected.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Another fatal crash....
Anyone know who this is?
http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8132249
http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.f
ox17.com.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Door separation/opening is an issue, what's the fix/s ?
Date: Apr 07, 2008
All the extra latching mechanisms seem great but, there is a lot of air
pressure outside those doors even on take off roll. Any way to use that
pressure to keep the doors closed, even with the hinges on top?
Dave Leikam
40496
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door separation/opening is an issue, what's the fix/s ?
>
> By my admittedly inaccurate count there are at least 5 incidents of RV-10
> doors opening in/during flight with resulting damage. One could logically
> assume that there have been:
> 1. More incidents that actually occurred that were not reported or..
> 2. More incidents that occurred that did not result in damage (I.e caught
> and aborted take-off)
> In any rate, the incident rate per flying RV-10 ( approaching 5% ??) is
> high enough to have caused me to seriously consider whether a secondary
> positive door locking mechanism should be added. (I've already got the
> warning lights). I spent several hours over the weekend thinking about a
> solution. one of which John G. mentioned. One of the people that had this
> happen to them developed a custom solution posted on VAF.
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=26526.
> I know that some will/have taken the position that proper build skills,
> the use of alternate products (Rivethead etc. ) good / intended use of
> practices and checklists when flying will minimize the possibility or
> risk, all true, NO ONE who sets out on a flight plans to have a door
> open, but one need only look at the photos of the damage to this recent
> incident to realize just how serious the consequences of an incident like
> this could be. That coupled with the increasing frequency of reported
> incidents is making me very uneasy.
> I have also come to appreciate the creativity and expertise that is
> contained within this community. (witness the recent threads on Rudder
> trim alternatives). So I'm VERY interested in what other builder/fliers
> are thinking/doing/planning on this subject.
>
> What you got????
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Door separation/opening is an issue, what's the fix/s
?
When a door opens in flight, the greater/higher pressure is most alway
on the inside of the aircraft. In some high performance aircraft even
with forward hinged doors traveling in excess of 200 mph, it is
physically impossible to close the door while in flight. (remember
Bernoulli?)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Door separation/opening is an issue, what's the fix/s
?
Date: Apr 07, 2008
I had a door partially open on a warrior I was flying about a year ago. We
landed without incident and properly closed the door. In flight, the door
could not be closed or opened more to "slam" it shut. It was kind of stuck
ajar. I do understand the greater interior pressure. Just thinking.
Dave Leikam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door separation/opening is an issue, what's the
fix/s ?
>
> When a door opens in flight, the greater/higher pressure is most alway on
> the inside of the aircraft. In some high performance aircraft even with
> forward hinged doors traveling in excess of 200 mph, it is physically
> impossible to close the door while in flight. (remember Bernoulli?)
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Door seperation for those who don't frequent VAF site
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Gotcha Phil thanks. Just shows the pressure on the doors
regards chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry, Phil
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't frequent
VAF site
Hi Chris,
I'm talking specifically about the need to open the door (in-flight
from the inside) in the event you decide a parachute would fly better
than a disabled airplane.
The guy who built the safety latch (mentioned in the link below) says
that he's tried to disengage it during flight, but it wouldn't budge
because the doors pull out to the point that the latch is pinned-tight.
That's good if you're trying to keep your doors on, but bad if you
choose to open them during flight.
So that was my reference about being locked in.
Now, for the part of avoiding the HS..... Any ideas?
Phil
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Chris and Susie McGough [mailto:VHMUM(at)bigpond.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:27 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't frequent
VAF site
Phil not sure what you mean about locked in? There is a small pin
-lever on the ouside that can be moved to disingage in case your in an
accident etc.
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry, Phil
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't frequent
VAF site
I'm not sure if I'm going to be a RV-10 parachute wearer-or-not, but
I've wondered about the same thing.
Part of what scares me about the Safety-Latch
(http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=26526) is not
being able to get out. You're literally locked in.
Phil
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: John Gonzalez [mailto:indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 1:51 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't frequent
VAF site
While we are in this topic, one additional reason for considering
the wearing of parachutes??? Reason why Oregon Aero is constructing a
different type of seats to handle my Softie parachutes.
Just food for thought. Still have to get out of the plane without
the HS getting you...maybe get out on the side the door came off,
atleast look back first, maybe the whole thing will be missing.
JG
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:48:38 -0400
> From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Door seperation for those who don't frequent
VAF site
>
>
>
> Check out this link
>
> http://ww=============
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Another fatal crash....
Hamilton Cartwright was my tech counselor. He was as nice as they
come...please pray for their families.
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
N104BS
Phase 1 11.5 hours
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> Anyone know who this is?
>
> http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8132249
>
> http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
>
> http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.fox17.com.shtml
>
>
>
> .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking regarding
the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the flush look and o
peration of the handles like Hendricks and others but the lack of a positi
ve locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any passerb
y. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GA aircraft
must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't be surprised to
see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly having the kind of inve
stment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not have the doors
locked somehow. I know, if a thief really wants in he will get in. But a
thief also isn't going to stop at a plane with locks if a better target is
around or if it will take too long or be too noticeable to circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a baggage do
or lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone still have the l
inks to that?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Door handles and locks
On this topic, Isn't there another option to the locks than needing to
buy a whole magneto kit from Van's? I would like to get something local
that would allow for expansion. I would also, speaking with another
builder last week, like to consider a electric locking system that would
work with a VP200 or other remote.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking
regarding the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the
flush look and operation of the handles like Hendricks and others but
the lack of a positive locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any
passerby. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all
GA aircraft must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't
be surprised to see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly
having the kind of investment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit
silly to not have the doors locked somehow. I know, if a thief really
wants in he will get in. But a thief also isn't going to stop at a
plane with locks if a better target is around or if it will take too
long or be too noticeable to circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a
baggage door lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone
still have the links to that?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Engraving Name Plate
Date: Apr 08, 2008
=0ADidn't I see a message sometime back about a builder who was hap
py with the engraving job he had done on a name plate for his RV-10? A
nyone remember who did the engraving or have a recommendation?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Door handles
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Another option is a ignition kill switch and an alarm. My alarm can be
triggered by mechanical shock or current drain or both. The first mechanical
shock gets a voice warning, the second sounds the alarm.For those who have
installed the door proximty switch, the other side of that circuit could be
used to trigger the alarm. I imagine an alarm on an airport ramp would get
attention unlike the mall parking lot.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking regarding
the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the flush look and
operation of the handles like Hendricks and others but the lack of a
positive locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any
passerby. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GA
aircraft must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't be
surprised to see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly having the
kind of investment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not have
the doors locked somehow. I know, if a thief really wants in he will get
in. But a thief also isn't going to stop at a plane with locks if a better
target is around or if it will take too long or be too noticeable to
circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a baggage
door lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone still have the
links to that?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engraving Name Plate
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Try www.engravers.net, 860-653-2780. I used them and are very happy
with the results. They were also very prompt.
On Apr 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Roger Standley wrote:
>
> Didn't I see a message sometime back about a builder who was happy
> with the engraving job he had done on a name plate for his RV-10?
> Anyone remember who did the engraving or have a recommendation?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
Subject: door safety latch
As I am getting ready to start work on cabin top projects, I am quite interested
in the door ajar issue and mods to reduce the possibilty of an unsafe door.
I think a forward safety latch would prevent the "air under the door scenario",
and such a latch would be easy to build, and retrofit. The small triangular
piece that trims out the top forward corner of the fuselage , aft of the naca
vents, just above the door pins, could have a rotating handle, that when turned,
would engage another pin, thru the frame, and into the door. The rotating shaft
would penetrate the skin, and another handle outside the aircraft would be used
by rescue personel to release the pin, in an emergency. This eliminates the
"can't intentionally release in flight" concerns of our skydiving buddies. There
would be no pressure on this pin, of the still intact door, if the primary door
pin is properly engaged. The entire assembly could be removed from inside the
aircraft, with a few screws, if necessary.
OK fire away.
Chris Hukill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: Door handles and locks
The version I had seen was a standard cabinet lock from Lowes Depot (same
thing as the baggage door lock) that simply used the lock flag to stop the
action of the door cam. Probably not too terribly difficult to figure out
but I'm not quite to that yet and wanted to save some time noodling time.
As far as electric locks go, I see this as something that could be done r
ather easily with a pair of solenoids. I would probably do it in addition
to the standard door mechanism although it would be rather cool to have sha
ved doors and use a door popper like custom cars, just don't know if I woul
d trust them given the results if a door opens. I see something like two a
dditional pins on the sides or maybe a single or double pins going through
the threshold. You would have to use fail retract solenoids for safety rea
sons but it could be just a switch control on the panel or integrated with
the VP logic. I know Marc was talking about having user definable events i
n the VP down the road so you could have something like airspeed > 30 knots
= arm door locks. It could also be controlled by the VP remote.
Hmmmmmm
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door handles and locks
On this topic, Isn't there another option to the locks than needing to buy
a whole magneto kit from Van's? I would like to get something local that wo
uld allow for expansion. I would also, speaking with another builder last w
eek, like to consider a electric locking system that would work with a VP20
0 or other remote.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)<mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking regarding
the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the flush look and o
peration of the handles like Hendricks and others but the lack of a positi
ve locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any passerb
y. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GA aircraft
must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't be surprised to
see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly having the kind of inve
stment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not have the doors
locked somehow. I know, if a thief really wants in he will get in. But a
thief also isn't going to stop at a plane with locks if a better target is
around or if it will take too long or be too noticeable to circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a baggage do
or lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone still have the l
inks to that?
Michael
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: GRT HX
Looks like GRT is getting closer to having the HX ready. Looking pretty da
rn good for the price! I think this pretty much negates the last attractiv
e item with the BMA stuff and with a much more proven track record in suppo
rt.
http://www.grtavionics.com/File/SNF%20HX%20RELEASE2(1).pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: P-Mag!
Date: Apr 08, 2008
I stopped by the E-Mag guys today and they now have a 6-cylinder
version on display. They said they have production units and will be
doing testing. They hope to be shipping by Oshkosh time and are
taking no-deposit waiting list orders via e-mail. I told them they
can expect to sell a lot of them. I think they said it will be about
$1,275 for the mag without the harness.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: was Door separation now Door Locks / Door Handles
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Deems, I am well aware that many doors that open in flight cannot be
closed. On my Bonanza (D-35, with poor 1940 latch design) the door
opened on takeoff while I was the PAX. It took all my strength to pull
the door in about 2 inches. When I finally relaxed (a bit) the door only
opened slightly farther and then just held there. I assume this COULD be
different had the Bonanza hinges been on the top of the door instead of
the leading edge. Maybe that is why it has a "V" tail. Keeps it save
from departing doors.
Michael (Sausen): my Hendricks latched came with door locks to minimize
petty theft.
Speaking of door handles I have not given much thought to an interior
handle or handle & arm rest combination. Assuming I don't; go with some
sort of pull strap to close the door while seated what are other
builders using to pull the door closed and/or use as an arm rest. My
current plans are to paint the inside door and not place any material on
the inside door.
Thanks,
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Neil & Sarah Colliver <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
anywhere for an airshow.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: P-Mag!
Anybody know if they have worked out the bugs in their 4cyl models yet. Hi
story has been very hit and miss on those.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: P-Mag!
I stopped by the E-Mag guys today and they now have a 6-cylinder version on
display. They said they have production units and will be doing testing.
They hope to be shipping by Oshkosh time and are taking no-deposit waiting
list orders via e-mail. I told them they can expect to sell a lot of them
. I think they said it will be about $1,275 for the mag without the harnes
s.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and
less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James
engine cowl?
The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for
OSH '08.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
anywhere for an airshow.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: Re: GRT HX
In a message dated 4/8/2008 12:49:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
robin1(at)mrmoisture.com writes:
Talk about a powerful package providing remarkable situational awareness fo
r
under $10K. Flying behind a panel like this was only a dream 10 years ago
and now it=99s cost effective
Robin...a note of caution...only for experimentals...certifieds will cost
you a few more $$$$
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000
016)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Neil & Sarah Colliver <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 09, 2008
James cowl & plenum. Had to add a slightly bigger oil cooler.
Neil
On 9/04/2008, at 6:20 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
>
>
> Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff
> and
> less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James
> engine cowl?
>
> The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you
> for
> OSH '08.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil &
> Sarah
> Colliver
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
>
> Hi
>
> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>
> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
> We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
> prop, dual mags.
>
> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
> runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>
> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
> couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
> Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
> hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
> to 5000ft.
>
> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
> the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>
> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
> add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
> going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
> stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
> than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
> tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
> about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
>
> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>
> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
> start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
> broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
> but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
>
> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>
> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
> 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>
> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
> it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
> 130-150 knots.
>
> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
> were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
> with under 3000ft.
>
> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
> other tank!
> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
> the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
> pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
>
> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
> overcast for a short while.
>
> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
> dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
>
> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
> to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
> there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
> if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
> you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
> stop.
>
> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>
> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>
> Neil
>
> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
> back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
> anywhere for an airshow.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: Engine stop tests.
During these tests, what did you find the best glide to be with and without
the prop being stopped.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
anywhere for an airshow.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Neil & Sarah Colliver <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 09, 2008
The best glide with the engine at tickover (minimum throttle) was 75
knots. We must have done over an hour of tests to establish this.
Last night we were gliding at about 80 knots. Full fine was about 1000
ft/m, full corse was about 200 ft/m better. Sorry, but we didn't
attempt to establish best glide with engine stopped as the focus was
on re-starting.
Neil
On 9/04/2008, at 7:39 AM, Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> >
>
> During these tests, what did you find the best glide to be
> with and without the prop being stopped.
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250 (N519RV)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah Colliver
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:48 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
>
> Hi
>
> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
>
> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
> We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
> prop, dual mags.
>
> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
> runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
>
> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
> couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
> Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
> hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
> to 5000ft.
>
> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
> the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
>
> Then it was back up to 5000ft.
> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
> add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
> going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
> stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
> than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
> tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
> about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
>
> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
>
> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
> start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
> broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
> but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
>
> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
>
> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
> 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
>
> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
> it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
> 130-150 knots.
>
> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
> were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
> with under 3000ft.
>
> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
> other tank!
> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
> the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
> pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
>
> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
> overcast for a short while.
>
> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
> dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
>
> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
> to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
> there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
> if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
> you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
> stop.
>
> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
>
> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
>
> Neil
>
> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
> back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
> anywhere for an airshow.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: AFS Systems
Date: Apr 08, 2008
As both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I'm
attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the best
platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without
requiring future hardware updates. Both have processor updates and both
have graphic enhancements. However, I'm having difficulties locating any
information that allows an objective comparison.
If either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF, inquiring
minds want to know. All that can be found on their web sites is marketing
data sheets. It sure would be nice to get engineering specs. Since that's
not likely either, I would be interested in hearing any subjective
evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.
Thanks,
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems
I spent some time with Rob this morning. The screen on the 4500 is very
nice. It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy screens give more glare
in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is easier to see. It is
about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if I remember correctly.
According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff, although you get
get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500 because of the
joystick and extra knob. However, with the faster processor (which may
become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they will be able to offer more
things like the synthetic terrain, etc. They didn't have their approach
plates demo working this morning, but it should be this afternoon Rob said.
It's pretty sweet how you can cross-feed flight planning stuff between the
AFS and a Garmin 430/530 or even a 396/496. They also don't have the
weather up and running yet here, but should tomorrow, I think he said. I
will be stopping back by. They currently only have Nexrad and one other
thing (I think the METARS/TAFS) setup, but are working on the rest.
So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as stated by Rob this
morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra knob and the
joystick so far.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AFS Systems
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir or Dewey Conroy of
Pacific Coast Avionics. They are probably both taking all kinds of
orders and will address this after returning. Many inquiring minds want
to know exactly these questions.
I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely mounted
and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with the
Garmin G900X national debt decision. I am impressed with Robin's
purchase but it is too rich for my blood. Synthetic Vision, HITS,
Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to
go IFR. Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great
start.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: AFS Systems
As both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I'm
attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the
best platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without
requiring future hardware updates. Both have processor updates and both
have graphic enhancements. However, I'm having difficulties locating
any information that allows an objective comparison.
If either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF,
inquiring minds want to know. All that can be found on their web sites
is marketing data sheets. It sure would be nice to get engineering
specs. Since that's not likely either, I would be interested in hearing
any subjective evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.
Thanks,
bob
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: GRT HX
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: P-Mag!
From: "Nick Leonard" <nick(at)nleonard.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Jesse,
Can you share any experiences you have had with the PMags? Put any in your planes?
Any recent problems that you are aware of?
Thanks,
Nick
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175573#175573
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone
had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR .
The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Neil,
Fantastic write up, thanks for all the very valuable information. I had
planned to do similar tests down the road but your experience builds a lot
of confidence in the mean time.
Just to add to your statement that running a tank dry isn't a dramatic
event, in the Skybolt (same engine) I was told the best (actually only) way
to know the aux tank was dry was to hear the engine start to fade from fuel
starvation. I was never impressed with that idea, but there's no fuel gauge
for that tank. Worked great every time.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade prop,
dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel runs
out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local Airforce
base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right hand seat, the
tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25 gusting
30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on the runway. I
was reminded then that I need to practice forced landings from all heights,
not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to add),
we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on going at about
500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so eventually with full flap,
and mushing down at about 55 knots, we managed to finally get it to stop.
It's certainly odd seeing the prop stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes
we do know that it is less than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but
we wanted to do the tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the
glide rate is about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a flick of
the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could start
the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery / broken
starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started, but the
starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at 4500ft
and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually it did
restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about 130-150
knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we were
quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away with under
3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the other
tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally the
engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch pump on and
change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the overcast
for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank dry. So
long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue to
turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then there is
very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And if you are
thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then you need to drop
the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from you. Or
if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks back.
Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting anywhere for an
airshow.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
Substitute SL30 for the SL40. Gives you TSO VOR and ILS. Otherwise, for more
space, but older technology, you could put used KX155 or Mk12D in panel. The
SL30 should fit in same space, maybe same tray as SL40.
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Chris and Susie McGough
wrote:
> Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone
> had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
>
> My current setup is
>
> DYNON D180
> Garmin 327 Transponder
> SL40 Radio
> Garmin 296 GPS
> Vertical card compass
> Backup ALT and ASI
> Intercom
>
> So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
> Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
>
> Should I just get a new GPS?
>
> regards Chris
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Chris,
I have a Garmin 480 and absolutely love it. Since Garmin announced
they would no longer produce it you might be able to find them for a better
deal before the supply runs out. I'm just speculating but I suspect a
number of folks will shy away from them out of support concerns. With the
480 (or 430 or 530) you'd have GPS and VOR available.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Does the inbuilt CDI capability on the 430 and/or SL-30 meet the VOR
indication/OBS requirement, or do you need a separate CDI/OBS (eg GI-106
or MD-200 etc)?
cheers,
Ron
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 9:24 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Chris,
I have a Garmin 480 and absolutely love it. Since Garmin
announced they would no longer produce it you might be able to find them
for a better deal before the supply runs out. I'm just speculating but
I suspect a number of folks will shy away from them out of support
concerns. With the 480 (or 430 or 530) you'd have GPS and VOR
available.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:21 PM
To: RVs_in_Aus(at)yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if
anyone had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to
NVFR . The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
"Warning:
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however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
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checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV Grin
Date: Apr 08, 2008
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
perfectly.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a CDI,
such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain, weather. Of
course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus panel lights and
overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR should be capable of
"light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with NVFR is that you can easily
get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds that you enter, loss of a horizon
due to pitch black seas or landscape). I love flying at night, but have
found that since going from the well lit Northeastern US to the relative
darkness of the Northwest US, night flying has a whole new meaning. I
wouldn't do it where I am located now without being IFR rated and having an
IFR panel. Not unless it was clear skies and city lights.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: RV Grin
Date: Apr 09, 2008
FW: RV10-List: Jack StandsGood on you!
regards Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: gary
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:07 AM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that
it would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane
flew perfectly.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Talbot" <richard(at)talbots.net.au>
Subject: RE: [RVs_in_Aus] NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Hi Chris,
You seem to have most of what is required already. Like has already been
said I would possibly recommend upgrading to the SL-30 or check out the
NARCO NAV 122 (entire VOR fits into a single instrument home). However (and
it is a big however), the regulations state that you must have an aid in the
aircraft which is usable at your destination. This would mean you can only
proceed to a field with VOR or carry fuel to use an alternate that does.
Check if you also need a TSO indicator/CDI. I am aware the Dynon can do
this but not sure the Australian view of it.
You must also fix your position at regular intervals when airborne. It
might be difficult to do that legally with only a VOR.
ADF is the other option and you do not want to do that. They are heavy,
difficult to install and getting decommissioned all over the place.
TSO GPS (146) would be the best as you can legally use that to navigate
anywhere. However that is expensive, both to purchase and maintenance of
the database.
This is where some reality comes in I guess. I have done a few NVFR trips
in my time. The last time was to and from Cowra several times during the
convention. It was extremely dark. I was lucky enough to have an ADF / VOR
and TSO GPS all dialled in. None of that was any use at all until I got the
airport lights on. There was no way I was going to find the place. On the
way home to Sydney on Sunday night I left after dark. Again I was basically
flying on instruments the whole way home. I have never been that
comfortable flying at night and far prefer day IFR to NVFR.
I guess it comes down to how much flying you want to do at night and what
your equipment requirements are.
Also you will need lights, cabin lights, instrument lights . lights ,
lights, more weight..
The last thing that no one has mentioned .. At MINIMUM a second handheld com
with fresh batteries. If you loose COM1 you are in a world of pain if you
cannot get the lights on. I think you will find you need an alternate with
someone in attendance or where the lights are always on if you don't have a
second com anyway.
Richard
_____
From: RVs_in_Aus(at)yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:RVs_in_Aus(at)yahoogroups.com.au]
On Behalf Of Chris and Susie McGough
Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 9:21 AM
Cc: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: [RVs_in_Aus] NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
__._,_.___
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__,_._,___
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Thanks John I am in Australia and are only doing the NVfR as I am
studying commercial Pilot licence and NVFR is helpful.
I was thinking I could just swap the radio to SL 30 and plug into Dynon?
The 296 has terrain and the weather feature is not available in
Australia
I have all lights etc it just the avionics
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a
CDI, such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain,
weather. Of course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus
panel lights and overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR
should be capable of "light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with
NVFR is that you can easily get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds
that you enter, loss of a horizon due to pitch black seas or landscape).
I love flying at night, but have found that since going from the well
lit Northeastern US to the relative darkness of the Northwest US, night
flying has a whole new meaning. I wouldn't do it where I am located now
without being IFR rated and having an IFR panel. Not unless it was
clear skies and city lights.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
To: RVs_in_Aus(at)yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if
anyone had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR
. The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Thanks John I am in Australia and are only doing the NVfR as I am
studying commercial Pilot licence and NVFR is helpful.
I was thinking I could just swap the radio to SL 30 and plug into Dynon?
The 296 has terrain and the weather feature is not available in
Australia
I have all lights etc it just the avionics
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a
CDI, such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain,
weather. Of course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus
panel lights and overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR
should be capable of "light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with
NVFR is that you can easily get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds
that you enter, loss of a horizon due to pitch black seas or landscape).
I love flying at night, but have found that since going from the well
lit Northeastern US to the relative darkness of the Northwest US, night
flying has a whole new meaning. I wouldn't do it where I am located now
without being IFR rated and having an IFR panel. Not unless it was
clear skies and city lights.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
To: RVs_in_Aus(at)yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if
anyone had some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR
. The Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV Grin
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
What a beautiful day. It is raining cats and dogs out west.
Congrats.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane
flew perfectly.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
You might want the SL30 hooked to both the Dynon and a CDI, incase the Dynon
goes away you could switch over. Or, get a battery backup for the Dynon.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Thanks John I am in Australia and are only doing the NVfR as I am studying
commercial Pilot licence and NVFR is helpful.
I was thinking I could just swap the radio to SL 30 and plug into Dynon?
The 296 has terrain and the weather feature is not available in Australia
I have all lights etc it just the avionics
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen <mailto:n212pj(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Might want to think about upgrading your SL40 to an SL30 and adding a CDI,
such as the GI-102A. Upgrade your 294 to a 496 for terrain, weather. Of
course you'll have nav lights, landing light, strobes, plus panel lights and
overhead map reading lights. Basically, night VFR should be capable of
"light" or "rudimentary" IFR. The problem with NVFR is that you can easily
get into an IFR environment (unseen clouds that you enter, loss of a horizon
due to pitch black seas or landscape). I love flying at night, but have
found that since going from the well lit Northeastern US to the relative
darkness of the Northwest US, night flying has a whole new meaning. I
wouldn't do it where I am located now without being IFR rated and having an
IFR panel. Not unless it was clear skies and city lights.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine stop tests.
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Hey Neil, et al
A quick question from a newbie. If the prop/crank is turning, why no oil pressure?
I don't doubt it, I just don't understand it. I have no experience with aircraft
engines, just automotive that use mechanical driven oil pumps taken off distributor
gear, etc. which don't care if the pistons, wheels, starter, etc. is
powering it.
I know I can find complete books/manuals, and eventually I will, but it's easier
and quicker to ask here.
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175624#175624
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV Grin
*C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! ! ! !
*Deems*
*
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: Re: P-Mag!
I think Jesse only builds RV-10's so I doubt it. They are just now releasing
their 6cyl models so I don't think there have been any significant hours built
up to give a good idea on their MTBF. If you search various archives of the
4cyl homebuilts you will find a lot's of references from one extreme to the other.
Overall they seem to have an excellent idea but have been plagued with
lots of gremlins in their design. Many people have had no problems but it seems
an equal number of people have had consistent problems.
I for one really hope they get all their problems licked and end up with a solid
product. Lots of potential there and they seem to e steadily improving.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:22 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: P-Mag!
Jesse,
Can you share any experiences you have had with the PMags? Put any in your planes?
Any recent problems that you are aware of?
Thanks,
Nick
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175573#175573
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: Garmin 1000 additions
Looks like Garmin is sleeping on the job either. They've added some very n
ice synthetic vis and HITS to the G1000. Probably only a matter of time b
efore it trickles down to the G900.
http://www.aopa.org/pilot/firstlook/080408garminsvs.html
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 08, 2008
swap the sl40 for an sl30 you then have a tsoed vor/loc/gs. the utput can be
shownon the Dynon
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NVFR avionics help
Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had
some ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
My current setup is
DYNON D180
Garmin 327 Transponder
SL40 Radio
Garmin 296 GPS
Vertical card compass
Backup ALT and ASI
Intercom
So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The
Australian regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
Should I just get a new GPS?
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: Air field flow for the 10
Date: Apr 08, 2008
I am in the process of working the intake and exhaust heat flow and am
wondering if anyone has done a field flow on the RV-10. It makes sense for
air to exhaust into a low pressure area and enter in a high pressure area.
Hense the need for the air field flow, if that is what it is called.
Thanks in advance
Bob K
Baby steps along once I hit the finishing part.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
Garmin GNC 300 XL (?) comes to mind as a swap for the SL40. It is a great little
IFR GPS/Comm with moving map. They are pretty inexpensive as well.
David Maib
40559
On Tuesday, April 08, 2008, at 06:31PM, "Chris and Susie McGough"
wrote:
>Guys I have decided to change my 10 to NVFR and was wondering if anyone had some
ideas on an easy way to upgrade.
>
>My current setup is
>
>DYNON D180
>Garmin 327 Transponder
>SL40 Radio
>Garmin 296 GPS
>Vertical card compass
>Backup ALT and ASI
>Intercom
>
>So my question is what would be the simplest way to upgrade to NVFR . The Australian
regs say you must have a TSO GPS or VOR or ADF.
>
>Should I just get a new GPS?
>
>regards Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: RV Grin
Outstanding Gary!! Congratulations. I can't wait to see the airplane in Minnesota
now that winter is gone. (almost)
David Maib
40559
On Tuesday, April 08, 2008, at 07:19PM, "gary" wrote:
>
>
>N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
>would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
>perfectly.
>
>
>
>Gary
>
>40274
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install the very excellent
Rivethead door pins. They are tedious to install and adjust, but they are really
sweet and center the closure on the door giving a positive feel when closing
your door plus the whole install feels very strong
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV Grin
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Awesome - love that smile (grin). Plane look beautiful. Verrry exciting.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175659#175659
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Maybe because you pay and they may or may not turn up. Sorry to be negative
but if the hat fits.
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
>
> I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install the very
> excellent Rivethead door pins. They are tedious to install and adjust, but
> they are really sweet and center the closure on the door giving a positive
> feel when closing your door plus the whole install feels very strong
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Obviously you are going through the time consuming process of panel planning. After
beating around the bush for 2 months, I went with the SL30 as most of the
threads here also indicate. I tried for a long time to save the extra two thousand
plus dollars on the SL40 (radio only). I finally realized that it was false
economy. Yes(Ron) you do need the additional CDI and Glide slope lights. The
AFS3500 has (built in) the CDI indicators for guidance but you also need an
audio panel for the Marker Beacon lights. Yes that is another $1000. My panel
is being finished by the very nice folks at Aerotronics in Billings, MT. While
I have not yet received the panel, I am very impressed with the excellent customer
interaction and pro-active approach that Aerotronic takes. I got three
bids on my panel, but went with them on my intuition and the advice of a member
of the EAA advisory panel. I will give another report after I P/U the panel
later this month. This is my thinking that this a a serous NVFR panel and will
get me out of trouble if caught in IFR conditions. It seem to be a very cost
effective setup. Probably could save more with Dynon
AFS3500 (1x)
Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
Garmin 327 Mode "C" Transponder
Garmin 340 Audio
Garmin 496
Digiflight II VS
Trutrak B/U ADI Backup 2.25"
UMA Altimeter Backup 2.25"
UMA A/S Backup 2.25"
Xaon XRX TCAS Beta (talks to 496)
PAI Vertical Card compass
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175661#175661
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Mike ....my 10 is just about ready to fly and as per email you can see my
current setup and wanted to go from there.
thanks anyway regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: NVFR avionics help
>
> Obviously you are going through the time consuming process of panel
> planning. After beating around the bush for 2 months, I went with the SL30
> as most of the threads here also indicate. I tried for a long time to save
> the extra two thousand plus dollars on the SL40 (radio only). I finally
> realized that it was false economy. Yes(Ron) you do need the additional
> CDI and Glide slope lights. The AFS3500 has (built in) the CDI indicators
> for guidance but you also need an audio panel for the Marker Beacon
> lights. Yes that is another $1000. My panel is being finished by the very
> nice folks at Aerotronics in Billings, MT. While I have not yet received
> the panel, I am very impressed with the excellent customer interaction and
> pro-active approach that Aerotronic takes. I got three bids on my panel,
> but went with them on my intuition and the advice of a member of the EAA
> advisory panel. I will give another report after I P/U the panel later
> this month. This is my thinking that this a a !
> serous NVFR panel and will get me out of trouble if caught in IFR
> conditions. It seem to be a very cost effective setup. Probably could save
> more with Dynon
>
> AFS3500 (1x)
> Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
> Garmin 327 Mode "C" Transponder
> Garmin 340 Audio
> Garmin 496
> Digiflight II VS
> Trutrak B/U ADI Backup 2.25"
> UMA Altimeter Backup 2.25"
> UMA A/S Backup 2.25"
> Xaon XRX TCAS Beta (talks to 496)
> PAI Vertical Card compass
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175661#175661
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: ATP plug
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Just recieved visors from Aviation Tech Products. Came within 10 days to
Australia and answered all questions .
Great service.
Chris 388
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
When I went to install a set in my rv10, I modified them to be much easier
to install. After seeing my mods coupled with the shipping delays I was
asked to reproduce a similar product by a few builders. I think they are a
very good anchor for the door rods to latch into, and should add a margin of
strength to the latch mech. I do offer them on my website (available
immediately ;) sorry for the commercial announcement, I just want all to
know there are options...
Steve dinieri
Iflyrv10.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:59 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
>
>
> I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install
> the very excellent Rivethead door pins. They are tedious to
> install and adjust, but they are really sweet and center the
> closure on the door giving a positive feel when closing your
> door plus the whole install feels very strong
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Door handles
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Michael, i have been offering a handle kit similar to the Hendricks, but in
a complete kit form, thinner in profile, specifically designed for the rv10.
My design allows the latching system to remain in place as vans designed.
when i started designing the handles the primary idea was to leave all the
door latch mech alone. my handles simply replace the outside handle, just in
a different position. they also allow standard lock cylinders for locking
(just like the Hendricks) and i am introducing on the website this week a
flush stainless lock system for all rv10's. easily installed into even
flying aircraft.
sorry to toot my own horn, but with all the talk about door and latches and
the importance of such systems i just want all to know there are options...
Steven dinieri
iflyrv10.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:33 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
With all the talk about the doors I've been doing some thinking regarding
the factory setup vs the aftermarket handles. I like the flush look and
operation of the handles like Hendricks and others but the lack of a
positive locking detent really makes me nervous.
I also want a way to lock the doors so they can't be opened by any
passerby. The is especially important with the TSA rumblings that all GA
aircraft must have locked doors. It's not a law yet but I wouldn't be
surprised to see it conceded to stop something bigger. Frankly having the
kind of investment in these aircraft that we do it's a bit silly to not have
the doors locked somehow. I know, if a thief really wants in he will get
in. But a thief also isn't going to stop at a plane with locks if a better
target is around or if it will take too long or be too noticeable to
circumvent them.
So to that end someone had posted a while back a way to make a baggage
door lock work with the standard Van's door handles. Anyone still have the
links to that?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Door handles
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Steven,
I see that you've added many new products to your site. The elevator trim
bracket and the aluminum door guides caught my eye. Are you reselling
Rivethead-Aero's product or are you manufacturing these yourself?
Thanks,
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door handles
Michael, i have been offering a handle kit similar to the Hendricks, but in
a complete kit form, thinner in profile, specifically designed for the rv10.
My design allows the latching system to remain in place as vans designed.
when i started designing the handles the primary idea was to leave all the
door latch mech alone. my handles simply replace the outside handle, just in
a different position. they also allow standard lock cylinders for locking
(just like the Hendricks) and i am introducing on the website this week a
flush stainless lock system for all rv10's. easily installed into even
flying aircraft.
sorry to toot my own horn, but with all the talk about door and latches and
the importance of such systems i just want all to know there are options...
Steven dinieri
iflyrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: RV Grin
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Great news Gary!
I'm looking forward to seeing you, Brenda, and both your RVs this summer.
My wife is definitely coming and is anxious to meet all the RV-10 spouses.
Please let us know how your Phase I goes.
See ya in 109 days!
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
perfectly.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
Hi Chris,
You'll need to replace (or add to) the SL-40 with an SL-30 which will give you
a TSO'd VOR/LOC/GS. To this you will have to add an MD200 series CDI to maintain
the TSO.
Why don't you contact Jake (can't find his e-mail address at the moment) to confirm
that you don't need anything else avionics wise? Also why noit try the Oz
RV Yahoo group site?
Looking forward to hearing about the first flight - Spring is in the air!
Rodger
--- On Wed, 9/4/08, Chris and Susie McGough wrote:
> From: Chris and Susie McGough <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: NVFR avionics help
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, 9 April, 2008, 8:13 AM
> McGough"
>
> Mike ....my 10 is just about ready to fly and as per email
> you can see my
> current setup and wanted to go from there.
>
> thanks anyway regards Chris
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:39 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: NVFR avionics help
>
>
> "AirMike"
> >
> > Obviously you are going through the time consuming
> process of panel
> > planning. After beating around the bush for 2 months,
> I went with the SL30
> > as most of the threads here also indicate. I tried for
> a long time to save
> > the extra two thousand plus dollars on the SL40 (radio
> only). I finally
> > realized that it was false economy. Yes(Ron) you do
> need the additional
> > CDI and Glide slope lights. The AFS3500 has (built in)
> the CDI indicators
> > for guidance but you also need an audio panel for the
> Marker Beacon
> > lights. Yes that is another $1000. My panel is being
> finished by the very
> > nice folks at Aerotronics in Billings, MT. While I
> have not yet received
> > the panel, I am very impressed with the excellent
> customer interaction and
> > pro-active approach that Aerotronic takes. I got three
> bids on my panel,
> > but went with them on my intuition and the advice of a
> member of the EAA
> > advisory panel. I will give another report after I P/U
> the panel later
> > this month. This is my thinking that this a a !
> > serous NVFR panel and will get me out of trouble if
> caught in IFR
> > conditions. It seem to be a very cost effective setup.
> Probably could save
> > more with Dynon
> >
> > AFS3500 (1x)
> > Garmin SL30 Nav/Com
> > Garmin 327 Mode "C" Transponder
> > Garmin 340 Audio
> > Garmin 496
> > Digiflight II VS
> > Trutrak B/U ADI Backup 2.25"
> > UMA Altimeter Backup 2.25"
> > UMA A/S Backup 2.25"
> > Xaon XRX TCAS Beta (talks to 496)
> > PAI Vertical Card compass
> >
> > --------
> > OSH '08 or Bust
> > Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175661#175661
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: P-Mag!
From: "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com>
Date: Apr 09, 2008
I've had them for about 320 hours on my RV-7. Early on I had two failures and a
third (which was my fault, you have to be very careful making the ignition wires).
So I replaced one with a slick mag. The difference between the slick mag
and the p-mag are very obvious when running the engine on only one mag (for
testing, run-up etc.). Along the way, Brad and Tom were very helpful.
More importantly, though, the last 160 hours or so have been flawless. So I can
only deduce that they've worked out the bugs, at least based on my experience.
If and when I build an RV-10 I'll put them on for sure.
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175686#175686
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 2 blade Hartzell- SnF attendees
SnF Attendees;
http://www.hartzellprop.com/pressroom/pr_htm/pr_11_09_07.htm
Could someone walk over to Hartzell and ask if the 2 blade Carbon blade
would be a good option for the RV-10? If so what would be needed to get
one? I am thinking although it's for the Diamond DA40 now, Hartzell may
provide it for other aircraft as well. Since the three blade is in the
Cirrus this blade may very well work for us.
Thanks!
Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Air field flow for the 10
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
Bob,
RV6 pressure plot attached. The pressure areas on our 10's should be
very similar if your using the stock cowl. The pressure does change
depending on angle of attack. Here is another good site with lots of
pressure data. Different airframe but the basic principles apply.
http://www.melmoth2.com/
Bobby Hughes
40116
I am in the process of working the intake and exhaust heat flow and am
wondering if anyone has done a field flow on the RV-10. It makes sense
for air to exhaust into a low pressure area and enter in a high pressure
area.
Hense the need for the air field flow, if that is what it is called.
Thanks in advance
Bob K
Baby steps along once I hit the finishing part.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Subject: Re: NVFR avionics help
KX 155 with a CDI would be pretty inexpensive compared to a TSO'd GPS and
may give you good situational and back up...
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV Grin
Gary, your work speaks for itself!
Deems
gary wrote:
>
> Unlike Deems I am not a very good documenter of my work, but here are
> a few pix.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Door handles
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Bob,
i make all my own parts. They are modified versions I made for
myself and decided to offer on the website. Check the site often as I'm
adding new stuff all the time. Next up are lightweight fiberglass interior
trim panels, and a leather interior handle cover.
steven dinieri
iflyrv10.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door handles
Steven,
I see that you've added many new products to your site. The elevator trim
bracket and the aluminum door guides caught my eye. Are you reselling
Rivethead-Aero's product or are you manufacturing these yourself?
Thanks,
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door handles
Michael, i have been offering a handle kit similar to the Hendricks, but in
a complete kit form, thinner in profile, specifically designed for the rv10.
My design allows the latching system to remain in place as vans designed.
when i started designing the handles the primary idea was to leave all the
door latch mech alone. my handles simply replace the outside handle, just in
a different position. they also allow standard lock cylinders for locking
(just like the Hendricks) and i am introducing on the website this week a
flush stainless lock system for all rv10's. easily installed into even
flying aircraft.
sorry to toot my own horn, but with all the talk about door and latches and
the importance of such systems i just want all to know there are options...
Steven dinieri
iflyrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Engine stop tests.
Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a word) is when
the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still turning - if you pull the prop
out the RV10 takes a leap forward. Does the glide range increase with the prop
all the way out? Is this in fact the standard emergency procedure with a constant
speed prop?
It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could turn the
blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.
Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just sufficient
to get my high performance signoff.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
"John W. Cox" wrote:
Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and
less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James
engine cowl?
The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for
OSH '08.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then
there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And
if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then
you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to
stop.
So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.
If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from
you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.
Neil
ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks
back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting
anywhere for an airshow.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Neil & Sarah Colliver <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 10, 2008
The glide definitely got better at full coarse, but when it stopped,
there was obviously no oil pressure, and so we were unable to change
pitch. I have no idea if it's standard proceedure, but it was what I
was taught to do.
Neil
ZK-RVT
Not flying - sitting at a computer instead. However, both Sarah & I
did our first night flying last night. It was great. Although as
virtually no one in NZ is RV 10 rated, we had to revert to C152's -
aarrgghh. Although it was a bit like meeting a crusty old family
friend. There is no doubt that we are spoiled with Vans. I really did
miss the EFIS & GPS though.
On 10/04/2008, at 4:09 AM, Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a
> word) is when the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still
> turning - if you pull the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward.
> Does the glide range increase with the prop all the way out? Is this
> in fact the standard emergency procedure with a constant speed prop?
>
> It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could
> turn the blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.
>
> Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just
> sufficient to get my high performance signoff.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB, flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: P-Mag!
Have they released a Lyc 6 cylinder model? I know they have been
developing one. Maybe one of you at Sun-N-Fun could fill us in. Thye
are in building D space #93.
Larry
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> I think Jesse only builds RV-10's so I doubt it. They are just now releasing
their 6cyl models so I don't think there have been any significant hours built
up to give a good idea on their MTBF. If you search various archives of the
4cyl homebuilts you will find a lot's of references from one extreme to the
other. Overall they seem to have an excellent idea but have been plagued with
lots of gremlins in their design. Many people have had no problems but it seems
an equal number of people have had consistent problems.
>
> I for one really hope they get all their problems licked and end up with a
solid product. Lots of potential there and they seem to e steadily improving.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:22 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: P-Mag!
>
>
> Jesse,
>
> Can you share any experiences you have had with the PMags? Put any in your planes?
Any recent problems that you are aware of?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175573#175573
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to installing them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point where it
threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than the standard
rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I cannot imagine why anyone flying an RV10 does not install the very excellent
Rivethead door pins. They are tedious to install and adjust, but they are really
sweet and center the closure on the door giving a positive feel when closing
your door plus the whole install feels very strong
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175658#175658
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Engine Special
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Vans has a nice discount on three (was four, but I just bought one)
XIO-540-D4A5 engines just posted on the website.
On your marks... get set... go!
Jeff Carpenter
40304
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
My general comment would be no, I do not have any concerns. The end of the
rod was already threaded per plans and all I did was fill them. ( Not
exactly since I cut and threaded the rods again to shorten them.) But, they
are not real tight. After 25 flight hours and the web traffic from last
week, I inspected them and did not see any signs of wear. I rechecked their
alignment and put some locktite on the threads. I installed mine per the
video and thus they do not extend all the way into the cabin frame, only
into the block itself. I am re-thinking that.....
Also, when you install the blocks there is very little room between the AL
blocks and the nylon blocks in the door. I had to cut down the blocks on
the door just to get the door to close. I think this closer tolerance helps
to reduce the stress on the rod itself.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to installing
them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point where
it threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than the
standard rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
I am concerned about it. Not sure how to fix it though.
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to
> installing them.
> Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point
> where it threads in?
> Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than
> the standard rods?
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <millstees(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Scott:
You just cut off the pointed end of the rod, and tap it with a 5/16-24 tap,
screw the point in, and set it with some lok-tite. Works like a charm.
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build Eggenfellner E-6TI
Naperville, Illinois
Finishing kit, engine install
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to installing
them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point where
it threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than the
standard rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
The one thing about the Rivethead receiver/pins arrangement that I'm not
comfortable with is that they are designed so that the machined pins are
captured by the receiver itself and do not project through the door
frame and the intercostal. IF (Big IF!!!) the fit of the doors is such
that there is some room for them to shift fore and aft, AND IF (another
BIG IF!!!) the pressure inside the cabin is enough to cause some
deformation and 'bowing' of the door itself, there MIGHT be a case for
the pins pulling out of the receiver and opening.
HOWEVER, if the pins are inserted so that they pass all of the way
through the receivers and the doorframes / intercostals, this is a MUCH
less likely scenario. I think the down side is that with the longer
pins, it raises the risk of the pins being exposed and damaging the
paint in that region. I fit mine so they are longer and project through
the door and frame, BUT I definitely have the likelihood for paint damage.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to
> installing them.
> Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point
> where it threads in?
> Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than
> the standard rods?
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
>
> *
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
I'm a little naive here since I'm just building wings. Couldn't somebody
like Rivethead-Aero or Steven DiNieri make new longer rods? I'm assuming
that the short pins they send are screwed into existing rods.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to installing
them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point where
it threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than the
standard rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
I can make pins as long as needed, but consider the loads on the door pins
are in shear. The likelihood that the rods or end pins break would be very
low given that the doors (uhmw blocks) are touching the blocks in the door
jamb. There is very little space. It would take a lot of force to shear a
steel line with a stainless fastener threaded within. More likely would be
the door flexing as deems pointed out or the blocks themselves tearing out
somehow.
Once installed and operating it's quite apparent that the guides and pins
door fastener system is much more secure than the factory setup. With the
factory setup you can get some fore aft movement out of the door even after
its been latched.
Your mileage may vary..
Steven dinieri
Iflyrv10.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I'm a little naive here since I'm just building wings. Couldn't somebody
like Rivethead-Aero or Steven DiNieri make new longer rods? I'm assuming
that the short pins they send are screwed into existing rods.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to installing
them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point where
it threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than the
standard rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
My impression is that N416EC was a Saint Aviation, VANS directive,
Factory approved "Standard Install". Hence the header "The King has no
clothes". All of those followers in the crowd to the "As Written
Instructions" might reflect careful on this particular style of
installation.
Every improvement is worth the pursuit. I have enjoyed the discussion
and the enlightenment..... So Thank You all.
Four good people and three fine aircraft lost in six months is simply
too many.
JC
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
DiNieri
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I can make pins as long as needed, but consider the loads on the door
pins are in shear. The likelihood that the rods or end pins break would
be very low given that the doors (uhmw blocks) are touching the blocks
in the door jamb. There is very little space. It would take a lot of
force to shear a steel line with a stainless fastener threaded within.
More likely would be the door flexing as deems pointed out or the blocks
themselves tearing out somehow.
Once installed and operating it's quite apparent that the guides and
pins door fastener system is much more secure than the factory setup.
With the factory setup you can get some fore aft movement out of the
door even after its been latched.
Your mileage may vary....
Steven dinieri
Iflyrv10.com
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I'm a little naive here since I'm just building wings. Couldn't
somebody like Rivethead-Aero or Steven DiNieri make new longer rods?
I'm assuming that the short pins they send are screwed into existing
rods.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to
installing them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point
where it threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than
the standard rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Special
Date: Apr 09, 2008
where did u find these one the site
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter<mailto:jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine Special
>
Vans has a nice discount on three (was four, but I just bought one)
XIO-540-D4A5 engines just posted on the website.
On your marks... get set... go!
Jeff Carpenter
40304
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
igator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
After the 416EC thing surfaced I called the consulting engineer for my
project (actually the neighbor lady with a PhD in ME from Caltech). After
discussion she suggested several things. The flexing of the door could be
stiffened by additional glass ion the inner side, preferably in the shape of
an angle running fore to aft. Secondly she made the point that the fatigue
ratio of stainless to aluminum is a factor of 10. If one is concerned about
the working cycle of bending and scraping these pins to close the door, a
thousand cycles could be of concern. As for me, mine is ready to fly with
the standard closure but down the road I will seriously consider the
replacement of the pins and the door bulkhead bushings with stainless.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
My general comment would be no, I do not have any concerns. The end of the
rod was already threaded per plans and all I did was fill them. ( Not
exactly since I cut and threaded the rods again to shorten them.) But, they
are not real tight. After 25 flight hours and the web traffic from last
week, I inspected them and did not see any signs of wear. I rechecked their
alignment and put some locktite on the threads. I installed mine per the
video and thus they do not extend all the way into the cabin frame, only
into the block itself. I am re-thinking that.....
Also, when you install the blocks there is very little room between the AL
blocks and the nylon blocks in the door. I had to cut down the blocks on
the door just to get the door to close. I think this closer tolerance helps
to reduce the stress on the rod itself.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to installing
them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point where
it threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than the
standard rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Are you saying that both doors were not found at each crash site? That
certainly is one of my questions for the last two fatals
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
My impression is that N416EC was a Saint Aviation, VANS directive, Factory
approved "Standard Install". Hence the header "The King has no clothes".
All of those followers in the crowd to the "As Written Instructions" might
reflect careful on this particular style of installation.
Every improvement is worth the pursuit. I have enjoyed the discussion and
the enlightenment... So Thank You all.
Four good people and three fine aircraft lost in six months is simply too
many.
JC
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I can make pins as long as needed, but consider the loads on the door pins
are in shear. The likelihood that the rods or end pins break would be very
low given that the doors (uhmw blocks) are touching the blocks in the door
jamb. There is very little space. It would take a lot of force to shear a
steel line with a stainless fastener threaded within. More likely would be
the door flexing as deems pointed out or the blocks themselves tearing out
somehow.
Once installed and operating it's quite apparent that the guides and pins
door fastener system is much more secure than the factory setup. With the
factory setup you can get some fore aft movement out of the door even after
its been latched.
Your mileage may vary..
Steven dinieri
Iflyrv10.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I'm a little naive here since I'm just building wings. Couldn't somebody
like Rivethead-Aero or Steven DiNieri make new longer rods? I'm assuming
that the short pins they send are screwed into existing rods.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to installing
them.
Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak point where
it threads in?
Does anyone have any concerns about the system being less robust than the
standard rods?
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 10:58:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: The King has no Clothes
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Special
Main page on bottom (scroll down)
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/open/Lyc-snf.jpg
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cram
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Special
where did u find these one the site
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine Special
Vans has a nice discount on three (was four, but I just bought one)
XIO-540-D4A5 engines just posted on the website.
On your marks... get set... go!
Jeff nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
nbsp; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door handles
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
I installed a set of Steven's on my plane and am really happy with them.
I really wanted flush handles and one of the criteria was that they
preserve the locking feature of the stock handles.
Bob #40105
The big move to the airport this Sunday...
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
DiNieri
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door handles
Bob,
i make all my own parts. They are modified versions I made
for myself and decided to offer on the website. Check the site often as
I'm adding new stuff all the time. Next up are lightweight fiberglass
interior trim panels, and a leather interior handle cover...
steven dinieri
iflyrv10.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door handles
Steven,
I see that you've added many new products to your site. The elevator
trim bracket and the aluminum door guides caught my eye. Are you
reselling Rivethead-Aero's product or are you manufacturing these
yourself?
Thanks,
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
DiNieri
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door handles
Michael, i have been offering a handle kit similar to the Hendricks, but
in a complete kit form, thinner in profile, specifically designed for
the rv10. My design allows the latching system to remain in place as
vans designed. when i started designing the handles the primary idea was
to leave all the door latch mech alone. my handles simply replace the
outside handle, just in a different position. they also allow standard
lock cylinders for locking (just like the Hendricks) and i am
introducing on the website this week a flush stainless lock system for
all rv10's. easily installed into even flying aircraft.
sorry to toot my own horn, but with all the talk about door and latches
and the importance of such systems i just want all to know there are
options...
Steven dinieri
iflyrv10.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look
and maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. I don't know the
specifics but I think John C might. Hopefully he will chime in. I don't
know if the door came off or not but they did have a door related issue. I
think it was while going to/from Osh or some other eastern states flyin.
Ben Westfall
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look and
maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Bill,
This info is based on my understanding of the props, if I'm off base
someone please chime in. Doesn't that make you feel confident about what
I'm about to write ;)
The non-reversing constant speed props (like on the -10) are designed to go
flat pitch in the event of a loss of oil pressure. The main concern is if
you have to execute a go-around or steep climb you want the high RPM
available for performance.
I think what you are experiencing is simply increased thrust by going more
coarse on the pitch while there's still oil pressure. Once the prop stops I
seriously doubt there is a significant difference in drag between flat and
coarse pitch. So first, I don't think you can control the pitch as the
engine quits and second I don't think it would make a difference.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a word) is
when the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still turning - if you pull
the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward. Does the glide range increase
with the prop all the way out? Is this in fact the standard emergency
procedure with a constant speed prop?
It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could turn the
blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.
Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just sufficient
to get my high performance signoff.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
"John W. Cox" wrote:
Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and
less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James
engine cowl?
The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for
OSH '08.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: RV Grin
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Way to go Gary, and congratulations on getting it finished on time!
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Grin
N204GS flew for the first time today. I have been telling folks that it
would be done on Tuesday ever since I started building. The airplane flew
perfectly.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 09, 2008
One other idea we had was the placement of a knob on the door inside, back
near the pin. this will allow complete control (two hands pulling) of
positioning the door for closure.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. I don't know the
specifics but I think John C might. Hopefully he will chime in. I don't
know if the door came off or not but they did have a door related issue. I
think it was while going to/from Osh or some other eastern states flyin.
Ben Westfall
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look and
maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
The original prototype door on N410RV incurred damage during a x-cnty
airshow trip to Colorado. As I remember the canopy and door assemblies
off N220RV were removed as a quick fix and integral completed "total
unit" as a Second Iteration prototype build and used to repair N410RV.
All of the early kits going back to Randy s/n 006 and John Nys s/n 047
were the 220RV Gen II type. I believe 416EC s/n 416 was still this
same type. Since then, several improvements (alternations have been
included) aftermarket which is the thrill of this group, the open
discussion, the talent of the individuals and the desire to pursue
excellence in build.
Tim did an excellent explanation on the Taper. I am opposed to what I
believe is in the plans (that should be nothing new to anyone). The
Strike plate idea is a corrective measure for the high likelihood that
operators will try to close a door with the aft pin partially extended.
My review of the 416EC pictures shows an alignment and strike issue with
the Pilot's plate. I believe that other than in Tim's "safety locked"
scenario this system might allow an opening or movement at a critical
point in time. The Rack systems should not allow continued retraction
of an engaged pin during flight. I believe the taper needs to be
oriented to the interior never the exterior. I believe the pin needs to
be "fully" engaged into the metal door pillar. I believe the UMHD is
not adequate for a long term receptacle. The view of 416EC showed
significant stress forces on the mounting hardware. I believe a
handhold which pulls the door down and closed positively even with a
door ajar "in-flight" is a wise design change.
Within this body of personal opinion are several quality improvements
which need universal illumination. For those with the second
generation door & latch (220RV). I would like to see 416EC the last
RV-10 to ever suffer latch release and premature door departure in
flight.
Pilots are human, mistakes happen, the door handle might not always get
"safety latched" and remain so. The secondary latch on the leading edge
or a boldly relocated hinge set like on Cirrus can sure get the
discussion stirred.
Let's keep the sharp eyes focused at SNF and less mud on the field.
There is lots to learn. Think Safety, Fly Safe.
John C.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. I don't know
the specifics but I think John C might. Hopefully he will chime in. I
don't know if the door came off or not but they did have a door related
issue. I think it was while going to/from Osh or some other eastern
states flyin.
Ben Westfall
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look
and maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine stop tests.
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Two ways to flatten a coarse pitch to fine pitch in the event of engine
failure with a Constant Speed Prop Assembly . Adequate Oil Pressure or
Counter weights. With the choice of no weights, the reaction time on the
prop control is a important skill set. Low pressure - Lots of Luck.
Neil gave a great example of the loss of altitude and significant
increase in airframe speed necessary to overcome loss of adequate oil
pressure.
Loose your oil..... Think fast, move faster. Fly the aircraft safely to
a walk away landing. - Bob Hoover.
Get some practice with a dead engine in course pitch and again in fine
pitch. It will drive home the importance in no short order. Practice,
practice, practice with lots of altitude and options.
John C
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Bill,
This info is based on my understanding of the props, if I'm off base
someone please chime in. Doesn't that make you feel confident about
what I'm about to write ;)
The non-reversing constant speed props (like on the -10) are designed to
go flat pitch in the event of a loss of oil pressure. The main concern
is if you have to execute a go-around or steep climb you want the high
RPM available for performance.
I think what you are experiencing is simply increased thrust by going
more coarse on the pitch while there's still oil pressure. Once the
prop stops I seriously doubt there is a significant difference in drag
between flat and coarse pitch. So first, I don't think you can control
the pitch as the engine quits and second I don't think it would make a
difference.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a word)
is when the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still turning - if
you pull the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward. Does the glide
range increase with the prop all the way out? Is this in fact the
standard emergency procedure with a constant speed prop?
It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could turn
the blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.
Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just
sufficient to get my high performance signoff.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
"John W. Cox" wrote:
Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this
stuff and
less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock
James
engine cowl?
The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See
you for
OSH '08.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil
& Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In
flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3
blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the
fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we
really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the
right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we
set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft &
25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a
bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I
hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept
on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots,
we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the
prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is
less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do
the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide
rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump
on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at
all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we
could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat
battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine
started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to
restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full
fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it
(though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and
eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of
about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick &
throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get
away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty
in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until
finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to
switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on
the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a
tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient
height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily
continue
to turn. So bearing in mind
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I'm starting to think of a simple and inexpensive design. Like our
co-builder Mr. Leffler, I'm still a ways away from reaching this point.
However I've heard of a few RV-10's with handles that allow the door to
be pulled down when you're sitting in the seat. I'm thinking of making
this pull down strap out of some higher strength material and actually
hooking it inside the cabin to a fixed point.
If it's done correctly, the handles will be functional and a open-door
scenario could result in only a couple of inches worth of opening.
Sure it would be a distraction if you had to fly the plane with a door
that was cracked open a few inches, but it sure beats having the door
remove your Horizontal Stab and tear up your airplane.
It's cheap, simple, fool proof, and practical.
Phil
________________________________
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
One other idea we had was the placement of a knob on the door inside,
back near the pin. this will allow complete control (two hands pulling)
of positioning the door for closure.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. I don't know
the specifics but I think John C might. Hopefully he will chime in. I
don't know if the door came off or not but they did have a door related
issue. I think it was while going to/from Osh or some other eastern
states flyin.
Ben Westfall
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look
and maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
410RV was right at 1000 hours last summer. Probably has a couple hundred
more by now.
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Chris and Susie McGough
wrote:
> Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
> corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
>
> Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
> position?
> .
> Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
>
> I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
> door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look and
> maybe do some measuring ?
>
> I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
>
> I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
>
> regards Chris
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: The King has no Clothes
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Folks, here is the Rivethead setup on our plane - Our parts were among
the first made, and came sans instructions, so we proceeded to install
them using what common sense was available... :-)
We cut the aluminum tubing latch pins, which had already been
internally threaded for the standard installation, to a length that
left the Rivethead bullet ends protruding just 1/16" or so out of the
plastic block on the door with the door latch handle in in the fully
open (pins retracted) position.
In the fully closed position, the bullet ends protrude through the
Rivethead aluminum block, through the glass doorframe, and through the
heavy aluminum vertical F1005C and F1042 Bulkhead Side Channels by
1/4" or more.
"Receiver" is the name Deems uses for the block - I like it! The
joint where the bullet end butts up against the aluminum tubing latch
pin is completely contained in the "receiver". The joint thus takes
almost no loads at all.
The aluminum tubing latch pins take all the load in shear over a very
short distance - the plastic block in the door tries to move outward
and the "receiver" stubbornly refuses to go along. I'm not sure, but I
think the threaded end of the bullet fills the interior of the
aluminum tube in the area subjected to the shear load.
I can 't see an even remotely likely structural failure mode
_provided_that_the_ doors_ are_closed _and_ latched_properly. Knock
wood! The receiver is held in place by two #10 screws that pass
through the side channels and fiberglass door frame and into the
receiver; they carry the forces on the block to the airframe structure
(Bulkhead Side Channels)
Oh yeah - the doors close very easily (provided the little pins
attaching the latch pins to the racks don't get hung up)
and the latchup seems extremely solid. I can't detect any relative
motion at all when I grab the door and shake it.
John Ackerman 40458
On Apr 9, 2008, at 3:51 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> The one thing about the Rivethead receiver/pins arrangement that I'm
> not comfortable with is that they are designed so that the machined
> pins are captured by the receiver itself and do not project through
> the door frame and the intercostal. IF (Big IF!!!) the fit of the
> doors is such that there is some room for them to shift fore and
> aft, AND IF (another BIG IF!!!) the pressure inside the cabin is
> enough to cause some deformation and 'bowing' of the door itself,
> there MIGHT be a case for the pins pulling out of the receiver
> and opening.
> HOWEVER, if the pins are inserted so that they pass all of the way
> through the receivers and the doorframes / intercostals, this is a
> MUCH less likely scenario. I think the down side is that with the
> longer pins, it raises the risk of the pins being exposed and
> damaging the paint in that region. I fit mine so they are longer and
> project through the door and frame, BUT I definitely have the
> likelihood for paint damage.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> I have ordered the Rivethead door pins and I'm looking forward to
>> installing them.
>> Is anyone concerned about cutting the door rod and having a weak
>> point where it threads in? Does anyone have any concerns about the
>> system being less robust than the standard rods?
>> Scott Schmidt
>> scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
>>
>> *
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Isn't the idea of the taper to the outside, to ensure capture of the block
and thereafter apply a leverage to firmly pull the door closed and into
alignment?
John 40315
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, 10 April 2008 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
The original prototype door on N410RV incurred damage during a x-cnty
airshow trip to Colorado. As I remember the canopy and door assemblies off
N220RV were removed as a quick fix and integral completed "total unit" as a
Second Iteration prototype build and used to repair N410RV. All of the
early kits going back to Randy s/n 006 and John Nys s/n 047 were the 220RV
Gen II type. I believe 416EC s/n 416 was still this same type. Since
then, several improvements (alternations have been included) aftermarket
which is the thrill of this group, the open discussion, the talent of the
individuals and the desire to pursue excellence in build.
Tim did an excellent explanation on the Taper. I am opposed to what I
believe is in the plans (that should be nothing new to anyone). The Strike
plate idea is a corrective measure for the high likelihood that operators
will try to close a door with the aft pin partially extended. My review of
the 416EC pictures shows an alignment and strike issue with the Pilot's
plate. I believe that other than in Tim's "safety locked" scenario this
system might allow an opening or movement at a critical point in time. The
Rack systems should not allow continued retraction of an engaged pin during
flight. I believe the taper needs to be oriented to the interior never the
exterior. I believe the pin needs to be "fully" engaged into the metal door
pillar. I believe the UMHD is not adequate for a long term receptacle. The
view of 416EC showed significant stress forces on the mounting hardware. I
believe a handhold which pulls the door down and closed positively even with
a door ajar "in-flight" is a wise design change.
Within this body of personal opinion are several quality improvements which
need universal illumination. For those with the second generation door &
latch (220RV). I would like to see 416EC the last RV-10 to ever suffer
latch release and premature door departure in flight.
Pilots are human, mistakes happen, the door handle might not always get
"safety latched" and remain so. The secondary latch on the leading edge or
a boldly relocated hinge set like on Cirrus can sure get the discussion
stirred.
Let's keep the sharp eyes focused at SNF and less mud on the field. There
is lots to learn. Think Safety, Fly Safe.
John C.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. I don't know the
specifics but I think John C might. Hopefully he will chime in. I don't
know if the door came off or not but they did have a door related issue. I
think it was while going to/from Osh or some other eastern states flyin.
Ben Westfall
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look and
maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)erfwireless.net>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 10, 2008
I have a pull down strap mounted to the front lower part of the door
which hangs down about 18 inches and allows me to pull the door down for
closure. I also have a door handle mounted to the rear part of the door
that I can grip and pull in the rear of the door with one hand while
pushing the door handle closed which I find essential in getting both
the front pin and rear pin sealed.
Under no circumstances would I ever consider any type of door pin that
did not go all the way through the door frame. Essential to me is the
ability to manually feel the door pin on the backside of the front and
rear door frame to insure the pins are fully seated before I take off.
Russ Daves
N710RV - 200+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 10, 2008
As an addition to the standard setup I am going to use a steel set screw
from Mcmaster Carr to thread inside the aluminum tube to cover the area of
the tube carrying the shear load. I do agree that rear door handle will
greatly assist in pulling in the door so that the pins insert correctly.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:25 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
I have a pull down strap mounted to the front lower part of the door which
hangs down about 18 inches and allows me to pull the door down for closure.
I also have a door handle mounted to the rear part of the door that I can
grip and pull in the rear of the door with one hand while pushing the door
handle closed which I find essential in getting both the front pin and rear
pin sealed.
Under no circumstances would I ever consider any type of door pin that did
not go all the way through the door frame. Essential to me is the ability
to manually feel the door pin on the backside of the front and rear door
frame to insure the pins are fully seated before I take off.
Russ Daves
N710RV - 200+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
I'm sure they will say Yes. Check any lockset or latchset for the logic
of tapered pins on any door of a residential or commercial building.
The only exception I can think of is an armory or bank vault door. I
still stand my the logic for the taper to go opposite the plan. Oh yeh,
and the pins to be fully retracted before a closure attempt. Just think
of a deadbolt doing damage if not retracted.
John C
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dunne
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Isn't the idea of the taper to the outside, to ensure capture of the
block and thereafter apply a leverage to firmly pull the door closed and
into alignment?
John 40315
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, 10 April 2008 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
The original prototype door on N410RV incurred damage during a x-cnty
airshow trip to Colorado. As I remember the canopy and door assemblies
off N220RV were removed as a quick fix and integral completed "total
unit" as a Second Iteration prototype build and used to repair N410RV.
All of the early kits going back to Randy s/n 006 and John Nys s/n 047
were the 220RV Gen II type. I believe 416EC s/n 416 was still this
same type. Since then, several improvements (alternations have been
included) aftermarket which is the thrill of this group, the open
discussion, the talent of the individuals and the desire to pursue
excellence in build.
Tim did an excellent explanation on the Taper. I am opposed to what I
believe is in the plans (that should be nothing new to anyone). The
Strike plate idea is a corrective measure for the high likelihood that
operators will try to close a door with the aft pin partially extended.
My review of the 416EC pictures shows an alignment and strike issue with
the Pilot's plate. I believe that other than in Tim's "safety locked"
scenario this system might allow an opening or movement at a critical
point in time. The Rack systems should not allow continued retraction
of an engaged pin during flight. I believe the taper needs to be
oriented to the interior never the exterior. I believe the pin needs to
be "fully" engaged into the metal door pillar. I believe the UMHD is
not adequate for a long term receptacle. The view of 416EC showed
significant stress forces on the mounting hardware. I believe a
handhold which pulls the door down and closed positively even with a
door ajar "in-flight" is a wise design change.
Within this body of personal opinion are several quality improvements
which need universal illumination. For those with the second
generation door & latch (220RV). I would like to see 416EC the last
RV-10 to ever suffer latch release and premature door departure in
flight.
Pilots are human, mistakes happen, the door handle might not always get
"safety latched" and remain so. The secondary latch on the leading edge
or a boldly relocated hinge set like on Cirrus can sure get the
discussion stirred.
Let's keep the sharp eyes focused at SNF and less mud on the field.
There is lots to learn. Think Safety, Fly Safe.
John C.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. I don't know
the specifics but I think John C might. Hopefully he will chime in. I
don't know if the door came off or not but they did have a door related
issue. I think it was while going to/from Osh or some other eastern
states flyin.
Ben Westfall
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and
Susie McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look
and maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
- The RV10-List Email Forum -
Thank you for your generous support!
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
It's interesting that this thread is sticking around so long this
time...that's good, it breeds awareness.
First, in regards to the problem, those (I've read this a.m.'s
posts already) who are saying that the issue is an alignment
issue, are correct. The problem is, the door handle is forward
on the door, and when you pull in to close it, the front of the
door pulls in, but the back doesn't pull in as far. So, then
you go to latch it, and the back pin hits the nylon block or
the door frame.
Thinner door seals might help. I can't say I'm unhappy with
the ones that came with the kit though, because they seal very
well...never had a plane with such well sealed doors. But,
yes, with thinner seals this issue could be helped a bit.
One of the big improvements would be to have a pull handle
centered on the door, or a secondary pull handle on the aft
part of the door. The problem there is that, while I'm
a chunky monkey, I'm still under 40, and yet it isn't
super easy to twist around with the seat in the way, to
pull a handle in. So you're still going to have to take
care.
In short, this problem exists because of the way you pull
the door shut, and requires that you pull it shut nicely
before you try to engage the pins. To me, if you still
have all of the OTHER components left the same, you're
still going to have a hard time regardless of if you use
the rivethead pins or the standard, because you NEED to
get the alignment good before you try to latch, or the
pins hit the block and you get a nasty noise. This is
NOT a dig on them, because I see benefits to their system.
But, the video that was originally put out, where they
dropped the door in place and latched it, is a little
misleading, because if you have nice tightly sealed
door seals, latching it won't be as easy as pictured.
I'd love to fly in a plane with alternative door seals to
see how tight they seal, and then perhaps I'd consider
them, but I am thus far happy with the standard ones
because of the sealing.
John A, thanks for your description of the installation.
Very much appreciated. I'm still not 100% comfortable
with having the threaded area anywhere near the spot
that if cracked, would cause the major failure, but at
least it gives me a little more comfort. Ideally, to me,
those pins would be very long and done before you build
the door completely. But, I would have a harder time
installing those anyway.
John C, I appreciate your discomfort with the taper, but
really, I think the pins at least need a bullet nose to
aid in centering. The taper is probably overkill, but I
don't think an opposite taper would do any more than cause
more damage...a bullet tip is probably the ideal. Certainly,
without the taper I have now, given the standard install,
I would not have had good luck with an opposite taper...I
would have even worse paint chip issues.
Wayne H, You're right on with the reasons...good job.
Now, a couple other topics....
1) RE: front hinges. Not a bad concept. But, I think
it would be much harder to design a robust strong and
light door with strong enough hinges, and you'd have
to be really careful when the door sags or you could crack
it. Better? From a door flying off standpoint, sure, but
it definitely would require more care, and a totally overall
stronger design, more expense, and all that. So I can see
why Van's opted for what they did.
2) Re: Closing Doors. Personally, other than my wife, I
try never to ALLOW anyone else to close and latch my doors.
On one of my earlier flights, a co-worker reached up, grabbed
the door, and SLAM! Slammed it down...thinking it was auto
latching like a car door. That sent shivers down my spine,
so after that I decided to inconvenience my passengers and
insist on me latching it. Also, one of the nice things I
did during the build was go real slow in trimming that drip
edge on the sides of the door. What this did for me is
make the side gap almost NOTHING if the door is closed
tightly. So, in my plane, it's ABSOLUTELY visible by
a quick glance if you have the door in the proper position
to latch, and it's closed tight. If the pin is out of the
hole, you'd have a HUGE gap. So yeah, some really
sloppy door checks are what caused the door departures.
3) Latching: The latching mechanism itself I'm plenty
happy with. If someone wanted to add a secondary latch,
fine, not a bad idea for the most part. Ideally I'd
rather see a vertical pin in the door bottom as a 3rd
latch point, that latches along automatically with the
other points. But, as I said before, if you have a
positive "click" latching system, and you latch it right,
you should be good to go.
For what it's worth, once mine is latched, I don't detect
any for/aft or other movement. They're just tight.
The latching is positive and I have zero worries of a
properly latched door being released because of the
handle being pulled.
Whatever you do, try to use your utmost craftsmanship when
you do the door latches. From time to time I see RV-10's
where you can tell they didn't take the care on some of
the glass-related items. But the doors, try to do a
great job at least on the latches.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
John W. Cox wrote:
> The original prototype door on N410RV incurred damage during a x-cnty
> airshow trip to Colorado. As I remember the canopy and door assemblies
> off N220RV were removed as a quick fix and integral completed total
> unit as a Second Iteration prototype build and used to repair N410RV.
> All of the early kits going back to Randy s/n 006 and John Nys s/n 047
> were the 220RV Gen II type. I believe 416EC s/n 416 was still this
> same type. Since then, several improvements (alternations have been
> included) aftermarket which is the thrill of this group, the open
> discussion, the talent of the individuals and the desire to pursue
> excellence in build.
>
>
>
> Tim did an excellent explanation on the Taper. I am opposed to what I
> believe is in the plans (that should be nothing new to anyone). The
> Strike plate idea is a corrective measure for the high likelihood that
> operators will try to close a door with the aft pin partially extended.
> My review of the 416EC pictures shows an alignment and strike issue
> with the Pilots plate. I believe that other than in Tims safety
> locked scenario this system might allow an opening or movement at a
> critical point in time. The Rack systems should not allow continued
> retraction of an engaged pin during flight. I believe the taper needs
> to be oriented to the interior never the exterior. I believe the pin
> needs to be fully engaged into the metal door pillar. I believe the
> UMHD is not adequate for a long term receptacle. The view of 416EC
> showed significant stress forces on the mounting hardware. I believe a
> handhold which pulls the door down and closed positively even with a
> door ajar in-flight is a wise design change.
>
>
>
> Within this body of personal opinion are several quality improvements
> which need universal illumination. For those with the second
> generation door & latch (220RV). I would like to see 416EC the last
> RV-10 to ever suffer latch release and premature door departure in flight.
>
>
>
> Pilots are human, mistakes happen, the door handle might not always get
> safety latched and remain so. The secondary latch on the leading edge
> or a boldly relocated hinge set like on Cirrus can sure get the
> discussion stirred.
>
>
>
> Lets keep the sharp eyes focused at SNF and less mud on the field.
> There is lots to learn. Think Safety, Fly Safe.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim McLaughlin <jimm(at)mweltd.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Subject: Door Fixes
I remember my first instructor lecturing me (30+ years ago) about not getti
ng rattled if a door opens in flight because it is just noisy and an inconv
enience. In over 2500+ hrs in taildraggers to twins, both exp. and certif
ied, I have experienced at least half a dozen inflight doors openings. Som
e were my fault, some mechanical and one just a passenger waking up from a
nap and opening the door in the process of stretching out.
The point is that doors open in flight multiple times every day with out in
cident. No matter how good the latch is designed, at some point it is like
ly that the door will come unlatched in flight. Think about the wear issue
when the airframe times get into the multiple thousand hours. While I am
partial to retract landing gear, I know the insurance rates show that gear
up landings are a given. There are several warning systems around that see
m to have no effect on the accident rate and no one has figured out a mecha
nical way to eliminate the problem. There are plenty of possible failures
that can cause serious damage or worse, a door unlatch should not be one of
them. On the 10, this problem is compounded by the fact the door lacks th
e stiffness to stay shut if only one pin is not in. The failure of the top
latch in Pipers is routine, but is not even worth stopping for.
I think we need a help from Vans to come up with a solution that really sol
ves the whole problem. If I had not already spent so much time building an
d fitting the doors, I might have just attached the pilot side door permane
ntly and cut the risk in half. I am truly a Vans fan am looking forward to
flying SN 40154. Airplanes are fairly complex and every one of them has s
omething that gets changed or improved. RV-10 doors are not as serious as
Bonanza V tails (one of my favorites), which ultimately turned out to be a
cheap and easy fix. It took a long time and the lives of several people be
fore Beech could admit the problem and send out the fix.
Sorry for rambling
Jim McLaughlin
40154.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Special
Date: Apr 10, 2008
The current word is that Vans has sold out the four engines and three
more. Lycoming has allowed Vans to keep taking orders at that
price... I have no idea how much longer it will last.
On Apr 9, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Pascal wrote:
> Main page on bottom (scroll down)
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/open/Lyc-snf.jpg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Cram
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Special
>
> where did u find these one the site
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Carpenter
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:11 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Engine Special
>
>
>
> Vans has a nice discount on three (was four, but I just bought one)
> XIO-540-D4A5 engines just posted on the website.
>
> On your marks... get set... go!
>
> Jeff nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and title=http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
> www.matronic via the Web title=http://
> forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
> forums.matronics.com
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine stop tests.
I may be mistaken but I beleive that you need 1700+ RPM to get the prop to
change pitch, in any direction, regardless of the oil pressure. I understoo
d the govenor needed the 1700 rpm to function and=C2-allow the oil pressu
re to vary the pitch.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 8:31:00 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Bill,
=C2-=C2-=C2- This info is based on my understanding of the props, if
I=99m off base someone please chime in.=C2- Doesn=99t that ma
ke you feel confident about what I=99m about to write ;)
The non-reversing constant speed props (like on the -10) are designed to go
flat pitch in the event of a loss of oil pressure.=C2- The main concern
is if you have to execute a go-around or steep climb you want the high RPM
available for performance. =C2-=C2-
I think what you are experiencing is simply increased thrust by going more
coarse on the pitch while there=99s still oil pressure.=C2- Once th
e prop stops I seriously doubt there is a significant difference in drag be
tween flat and coarse pitch.=C2- =C2-So first, I don=99t think yo
u can control the pitch as the engine quits and second I don=99t thin
k it would make a difference.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Something that=C2-I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a word)
=C2-is when the engine dies (in my case idling)=C2-and is still turning
=C2-- if you pull the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward. Does the gl
ide range increase with the prop all the way out? Is this in fact the stand
ard emergency procedure with a constant speed prop?
It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could turn th
e blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.
Any comments? My previous=C2-constant speed prop experience was just suff
icient to get my high performance signoff.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
"John W. Cox" wrote:
Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and
less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James
engine cowl?
The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for
OSH '08.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine stop tests.
Hi
I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.
We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!
We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade
prop, dual mags.
The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel
runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.
First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really
couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local
Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right
hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set
to 5000ft.
There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25
gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on
the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced
landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.
Then it was back up to 5000ft.
Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to
add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on
going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so
eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we
managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop
stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less
than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the
tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is
about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.
So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a
flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.
The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could
start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /
broken starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,
but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.
With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,
1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.
The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at
4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)
After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually
it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about
130-150 knots.
Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we
were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away
with under 3000ft.
Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the
other tank!
So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally
the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch
pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.
Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the
overcast for a short while.
So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank
dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.
However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue
to turn. So bearing in mind =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contributi
=============
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Special
From: "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 10, 2008
I bought one this morning. Van's staff advised that Lycoming was making more available.
I emailed my forms to Van's, called in a credit card deposit and got the three
blade MT prop as part of the package.
Wonderful timing as I arrived at Sun and Fun today fully intending to buy a Mattituck
at $39,200 less $600 show special.
Van's price included shipping and took another $1000 off for the prop bundle.
So today was a great day under the theory that I didn't spend as much as Iwas thinking
I'd have to.
Now,..... on to avionics with all the saved money.
Tom H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176009#176009
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Special
so what is the difference between the YIO540 on sale and the normal XIO540
on the Van's site? Anyone know?
Speaking of MT 3 blade, anyone at SnF have a chance to go over to Hartzell
and ask about the two blade carbon blade yet?.. figure with Van's there it
may be a great way to get the two companies talking about offering the blade
to RV builders.
Thx
Pascal
BTW- Tom- great deal you did out there I would have done the same thing if
this was next year (aka Mattituck and instead saved 5K on an engine and
prop)
----- Original Message -----
From: "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine Special
>
> I bought one this morning. Van's staff advised that Lycoming was making
> more available.
> I emailed my forms to Van's, called in a credit card deposit and got the
> three blade MT prop as part of the package.
>
> Wonderful timing as I arrived at Sun and Fun today fully intending to buy
> a Mattituck at $39,200 less $600 show special.
>
> Van's price included shipping and took another $1000 off for the prop
> bundle.
>
> So today was a great day under the theory that I didn't spend as much as
> Iwas thinking I'd have to.
>
> Now,..... on to avionics with all the saved money.
>
> Tom H.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176009#176009
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 10, 2008
How about a bungee? LOL
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
I'm starting to think of a simple and inexpensive design. Like our
co-builder Mr. Leffler, I'm still a ways away from reaching this point.
However I've heard of a few RV-10's with handles that allow the door to be
pulled down when you're sitting in the seat. I'm thinking of making this
pull down strap out of some higher strength material and actually hooking it
inside the cabin to a fixed point.
If it's done correctly, the handles will be functional and a open-door
scenario could result in only a couple of inches worth of opening.
Sure it would be a distraction if you had to fly the plane with a door that
was cracked open a few inches, but it sure beats having the door remove your
Horizontal Stab and tear up your airplane.
It's cheap, simple, fool proof, and practical.
Phil
_____
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
One other idea we had was the placement of a knob on the door inside, back
near the pin. this will allow complete control (two hands pulling) of
positioning the door for closure.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. I don't know the
specifics but I think John C might. Hopefully he will chime in. I don't
know if the door came off or not but they did have a door related issue. I
think it was while going to/from Osh or some other eastern states flyin.
Ben Westfall
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched
corectly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked
position?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the
door not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look and
maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Special
Yes, what is a YIO540?
Pascal wrote:
>
> so what is the difference between the YIO540 on sale and the normal
> XIO540 on the Van's site? Anyone know?
>
>
> Speaking of MT 3 blade, anyone at SnF have a chance to go over to
> Hartzell and ask about the two blade carbon blade yet?.. figure with
> Van's there it may be a great way to get the two companies talking
> about offering the blade to RV builders.
> Thx
> Pascal
>
> BTW- Tom- great deal you did out there I would have done the same
> thing if this was next year (aka Mattituck and instead saved 5K on an
> engine and prop)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:38 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine Special
>
>
>>
>> I bought one this morning. Van's staff advised that Lycoming was
>> making more available.
>> I emailed my forms to Van's, called in a credit card deposit and got
>> the three blade MT prop as part of the package.
>>
>> Wonderful timing as I arrived at Sun and Fun today fully intending to
>> buy a Mattituck at $39,200 less $600 show special.
>>
>> Van's price included shipping and took another $1000 off for the prop
>> bundle.
>>
>> So today was a great day under the theory that I didn't spend as much
>> as Iwas thinking I'd have to.
>>
>> Now,..... on to avionics with all the saved money.
>>
>> Tom H.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176009#176009
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Parlow <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Price Reduced: RV-10 Project For Sale
Date: Apr 10, 2008
RV-10 project for sale.REDUCED TO $99,900 FOR QUICK SALE!
See add in Barnstormers.com and Trade-A-PlaneIncludes all materials to comp
lete a flying plane except engine & prop. Full Garmin WAAS IFR instrument p
ackage. GNS430W, SL30, GTX327, GI-106A, PMA800SR, LifeSaver 4300 AI, CO Mon
itor, BMA EFISone w/ Autopilot and Powerboard. Rudder tim w/ position displ
ay for trims and flaps. ELO Touchscreen monitor w/ switch to display EFIS o
r computer to Co-pilot. All Van's kits including FWF. Accuracy Avionics ove
rhead console and window trim rings. All systems installed including dual b
attery Z-14 FADEC based electrical systems. CAD drawings of all system sche
matics. To finish it needs: engine, prop, interior, paint, ~1000 hours labo
r.
Engine $39,200 (Vans)Prop $6,510 (Vans)Interior $3,182 (Flightline)Paint ~$
8,000 (?) Total ~$56,892 to finish A flying full IFR RV-10 for $156,792!
A few photos attached. ERic--(828) 777-7976Williamsport, PA
panel4 (Medium).jpg
Transfer 12-25-06 192 (Medium).jpg
Transfer 1-30-07 048 (Small).jpg
Transfer 2-5-07 033 (Small).jpg
Transfer 2-5-07 034 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 120 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 121 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 131 (Small).jpg
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Transfer 3-27-08 138 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 146 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 150 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 170 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 194 (Small).jpg
Transfer 3-27-08 207 (Small).jpg
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
LOL...sure Gary....how bout we just slip a prefabricated rope loop between
the door handles, installed after the doors are down and ummmm.... :) locke
d.
Rick Sked
----- Original Message -----
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:01:14 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
How about a bungee?=C2- LOL
Gary
40274
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
I'm starting to think of a simple and inexpensive design.=C2- Like our co
-builder Mr. Leffler, I'm still a ways away from reaching this point.
However I've heard of a few RV-10's with handles that allow the door to be
pulled down when you're sitting in the seat.=C2- I'm thinking of making t
his pull down strap out of some higher strength material and actually hooki
ng it inside the cabin to a fixed point.
If it's done correctly, the handles will be functional and a open-door scen
ario could result in only a couple of inches worth of opening.
Sure it would be a distraction if you had to fly the plane with a door that
was cracked open a few inches, but it sure beats having the door remove yo
ur Horizontal Stab and tear up your airplane.
It's cheap, simple, fool proof, and practical.
Phil
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
One other idea we had was the placement of a knob on the door inside, back
near the pin. this will allow complete control (two hands pulling) of posit
ioning the door for closure.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Vans did have an issue with a door early on with 410RV. =C2-I don
=99t know the specifics but I think John C might. =C2-Hopefully he will c
hime in.=C2- I don=99t know if the door came off or not but they di
d have a door related issue. =C2-I think it was while going to/from Osh o
r some other eastern states flyin.
Ben Westfall
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie McGough
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Guys are we 100% sure that the doors that have come off were latched corect
ly where they go into the fuse frames.
Are we sure that the door handles were closed properly and in the locked po
sition?
.
Remember the tunnel heat problem, some have the problem but most do not.
I would think Vans 10 would have close to 1000 hours on it , why has the do
or not come off?? Does someone live close to Vans that can have a look and
maybe do some measuring ?
I am absolutely not saying there is no problem just need some facts
I have written to Vans to the engieering department to see what they say
regards Chris =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
=C2- =C2- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">
http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c =C2- =C2- href="http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="ht
tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.m
atronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =C2- =C2- http://
=======================
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 11, 2008
After reading all the posts on doors coming off I went to the hangar
yesterday to recheck mine to be sure they were doing what I thought they
were. I have installed the Rivet Head conversion and I read someone
saying that bullets don't go past the guide into and past the door
frame. On mine they are going through the guide and through the door
frame. Ok there.
I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the pin has
gone through the door guide. If you have a full interior, like I do, you
obviously can't do that because the area is covered. I have the door
warning lights installed and I check religiously to be sure the light
has gone off after the door is closed. I also will not let passengers
close the door. I usually stay outside the plane until the passenger is
buckled in and then I close the door.
I can and would highly recommend the Rivet Head type of conversion. I
think Steven DiNieri also has this type of conversion as well as Rivet
Head.
Boy the damage done to the latest door off incident surely gives you the
incentive to double check that the doors are closed properly before
takeoff.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Wayne, with your beautiful paint job, that extra degree of respect for
passenger and aircraft are a smart Checklist item.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 5:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors coming off
After reading all the posts on doors coming off I went to the hangar
yesterday to recheck mine to be sure they were doing what I thought they
were. I have installed the Rivet Head conversion and I read someone
saying that bullets don't go past the guide into and past the door
frame. On mine they are going through the guide and through the door
frame. Ok there.
I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the pin has
gone through the door guide. If you have a full interior, like I do, you
obviously can't do that because the area is covered. I have the door
warning lights installed and I check religiously to be sure the light
has gone off after the door is closed. I also will not let passengers
close the door. I usually stay outside the plane until the passenger is
buckled in and then I close the door.
I can and would highly recommend the Rivet Head type of conversion. I
think Steven DiNieri also has this type of conversion as well as Rivet
Head.
Boy the damage done to the latest door off incident surely gives you the
incentive to double check that the doors are closed properly before
takeoff.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Question? How much does the door bow outward in flight. I am going flying
in about 30 minutes and will check mine, but just wondering if any of the
other flyers have tried to measure the flex. I have looked at it in flight
before and do not remember any noticeable increased gap in the door. The
reason I am interested is that I did cut my rods down to have the pins be
just long enough to go through the AL blocks. With the tight fit of the
doors, I do not think that a racking motion could pull the pin out of the
block, outward flex of the door could have some affect.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
Being a lurker, I've read this thread with interest. Just to make a
general comment, for good structural "retention" of the door, I feel
the best set-up is for the door pins to pass completely through the
opening frame on the fuselage. Of course, I'm basing this on the
pictures I've seen so far. How does the warning light system "sense"
full locking with the "blueprint" set-up for the door? Seems to me it
would be a simple matter to add a couple micro-switches to the back
side of the door frames so they light up (or better turn off a light)
when the pins are fully engaged into the frames therefore indicating
proper lock.
On 4/11/08, Wayne Edgerton wrote:
> After reading all the posts on doors coming off I went to the hangar
> yesterday to recheck mine to be sure they were doing what I thought they
> were. I have installed the Rivet Head conversion and I read someone saying
> that bullets don't go past the guide into and past the door frame. On mine
> they are going through the guide and through the door frame. Ok there.
>
> I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the pin has gone
> through the door guide. If you have a full interior, like I do, you
> obviously can't do that because the area is covered. I have the door warning
> lights installed and I check religiously to be sure the light has gone off
> after the door is closed. I also will not let passengers close the door. I
> usually stay outside the plane until the passenger is buckled in and then I
> close the door.
>
> I can and would highly recommend the Rivet Head type of conversion. I think
> Steven DiNieri also has this type of conversion as well as Rivet Head.
>
> Boy the damage done to the latest door off incident surely gives you the
> incentive to double check that the doors are closed properly before takeoff.
>
> Wayne Edgerton N602WT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hearing the Bear, Watching the Bear .. wanting to dance rather
than RUN
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
EAA video word has snuck out that the FAA has been walking all over the
grounds of SNF measuring their latest 51% Revised List against existing
kits in Florida. Not one single post by anyone on what that revised
list might look like. Other than VAN being cautiously optimistic, Can
any posters from SNF give us a teaser on what the new list might sound
like before it hits us along the head with all claws extended? I know,
I know the grounds are drying out and everyone has money to burn buying
new toys.
25% of all GA flying aircraft are said to now be some form of the more
than 29,000 (5,647 are VANS) Experimental built aircraft. The Genie is
out of the bottle. Other than smoke and mirrors, will anyone shed some
tangible light on this curiosity in a form we can get our arms around?
Once it is out, in the Federal Register to trigger an NPRM, the fuse on
the bomb will be lit. 280,000 attendees at SNF '08 and not a damn
whisper. Wow!
I understand Joe Bartels with his EVO Lancair prototype, VAN with the
RV-12 prototype and Mikael Via of Glastar sat at the picnic table. I
hear Hunger can make bad porridge taste better.
John Cox
#600
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fuel Filter clogging
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Now that I am flying, I like everyone else flying, am concerned with a
clogged filter. It is a big job to get down in the tunnel and disassemble
the filter only to find that it is OK. Since filters clog progressively and
not all at once, I measured the fuel flow by taking the fuel line off of the
injector servo and connecting it to a hose that I drop the other end into
the gas tank. I then turn on the boost pump and read the fuel flow. Mine
started out at 42 gph and has not changed since I started flying. This
gives me peace of mind without all the disassembly. If the flow drops below
40 gph I can then go and clean it. Though I would pass along this time
saving tip.
Gary
40274
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 12, 2008
"I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the pin has
gone through the door guide. " Guys this is rediculous we need a fix
so that whoever can jump in and fly the plane and believe that the doors
will not fly off. I mean would the public tolerate it if a car door fell
off? Why should we. We need a fix so that you can get in shut the door
"thats it" No checking pins or reaching behind the seat etc etc.
Ok so I am not convinced about this flexing yet as we cannot be sure the
doors that have come off had the rear pins into the fuse (shut
properly). So if this is the problem then Iflyrv10.com door guides will
fix the problem as the door pins are guided into place. If we are saying
there is flexing and the pins pop out then maybe tempory fix would be
what Andre has done in here in AUS.
About to do first flight in a few weeks and i do not want to have to
think about closing a bloody door or shouls I say a door coming off.
Keep thinking guys
reggards Chris 388
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 12, 2008
The after market door guides seem a good idea and I believed that one
of the advantages of these was that you were able to shorten the rods so
that if you accidently closed the door with the handle in the open
position the pins would not hit the outside of the fuse stuffing the
paint. This ofcourse means that with the door closed the pins would go
through the after market guide but not the fuse.
Just a thought
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
Chris
I have to say I agree with you. An unclosed door should not result in an major
emergency in an un-pressurised a/c. This problem, if not corrected will be an
accident waiting to happen. It is a bit like the Far Side cartoon the had a "Wings
Off" button on the arm-rest of an airline passengers seat. The questions
is not how to prevent the button being pushed but why it was there in the first
pace.
I know the risk can be mitigated by checking, with warning lights etc. But somewhere
along the way, the failure chain will catch up with someone.
Flying my Cherokee, part of the passenger brief is that they should un-latch the
door in the event of an emergency so the door does not jam upon landing. I am
reluctant to use the Auzzie fix as it may trap you in the a/c in the event of
a crash.
So rather than "fixes", what would be the "Gold Standard" solution?
Inquiring minds need to know ....
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris and Susie McGough <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors coming off
> "I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the
> pin has gone through the door guide. " Guys this is
> rediculous we need a fix so that whoever can jump in and fly the
> plane and believe that the doors will not fly off. I mean would
> the public tolerate it if a car door fell off? Why should we. We
> need a fix so that you can get in shut the door "thats it" No
> checking pins or reaching behind the seat etc etc.
>
> Ok so I am not convinced about this flexing yet as we cannot be
> sure the doors that have come off had the rear pins into the
> fuse (shut properly). So if this is the problem then
> Iflyrv10.com door guides will fix the problem as the door pins
> are guided into place. If we are saying there is flexing and the
> pins pop out then maybe tempory fix would be what Andre
> has done in here in AUS.
>
>
> About to do first flight in a few weeks and i do not want to
> have to think about closing a bloody door or shouls I say a door
> coming off.
>
> Keep thinking guys
>
> reggards Chris 388
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 11, 2008
That is the way mine are set up. After all the discussion, I am considering
changing that and lengthening the rods and getting the pin to go through the
frame. Have not really decided yet. Maybe I will have one of the ME's here
give me an opinion about the strength of the AL block with the two bolts.
My general feeling is that I am ok since those two bolts have a lot of
strength in sheer.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
McGough
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors coming off
The after market door guides seem a good idea and I believed that one of
the advantages of these was that you were able to shorten the rods so that
if you accidently closed the door with the handle in the open position the
pins would not hit the outside of the fuse stuffing the paint. This ofcourse
means that with the door closed the pins would go through the after market
guide but not the fuse.
Just a thought
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Chris, I don't know how much can be gleaned from the latest? incident as
some of the posts allude to the door coming off on a subsequent flight
after the 4g crash/landing.
Maybe there wasn't a straight section left on this machine. In any case
who would go flying in an aircraft with that much prior damage unless
you had a special permit to return it to a maintenance workshop? Maybe
the door popped out during the crunching landing. Have a look at the
deformation on the glareshield. I'd be interested to see what the damage
was/might be where the brace attaches to the cabin cover. I don't think
well made RV-10's have a case of the door falling off, I think it's more
a case of checking to see if it's properly closed. The same thing you'd
do when you jumped in the family car.
Maybe the answer is a safety catch, sliding window bolt variety, at the
rear attached to the lower door aimed down to the inside of the lower
sill?
I'm interested in hearing Rene's report on the door in flight flexing
because I reckon this would be the most likely scenario to ripping a
door off especially if a significant gap opens up towards the airflow.
John 40315
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris and Susie McGough
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors coming off
"I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the pin has
gone through the door guide. " Guys this is rediculous we need a fix
so that whoever can jump in and fly the plane and believe that the doors
will not fly off. I mean would the public tolerate it if a car door fell
off? Why should we. We need a fix so that you can get in shut the door
"thats it" No checking pins or reaching behind the seat etc etc.
Ok so I am not convinced about this flexing yet as we cannot be sure
the doors that have come off had the rear pins into the fuse (shut
properly). So if this is the problem then Iflyrv10.com door guides will
fix the problem as the door pins are guided into place. If we are saying
there is flexing and the pins pop out then maybe tempory fix would be
what Andre has done in here in AUS.
About to do first flight in a few weeks and i do not want to have to
think about closing a bloody door or shouls I say a door coming off.
Keep thinking guys
reggards Chris 388
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 11, 2008
I did not get to check the in flight flexing today...will have to fly some
other day to do it..darn. My wife is out playing this weekend.hockey..so it
might not be able tofly until some time next week.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dunne
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Chris, I don't know how much can be gleaned from the latest? incident as
some of the posts allude to the door coming off on a subsequent flight after
the 4g crash/landing.
Maybe there wasn't a straight section left on this machine. In any case who
would go flying in an aircraft with that much prior damage unless you had a
special permit to return it to a maintenance workshop? Maybe the door popped
out during the crunching landing. Have a look at the deformation on the
glareshield. I'd be interested to see what the damage was/might be where the
brace attaches to the cabin cover. I don't think well made RV-10's have a
case of the door falling off, I think it's more a case of checking to see if
it's properly closed. The same thing you'd do when you jumped in the family
car.
Maybe the answer is a safety catch, sliding window bolt variety, at the rear
attached to the lower door aimed down to the inside of the lower sill?
I'm interested in hearing Rene's report on the door in flight flexing
because I reckon this would be the most likely scenario to ripping a door
off especially if a significant gap opens up towards the airflow.
John 40315
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris and Susie <mailto:VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> McGough
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors coming off
"I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the pin has gone
through the door guide. " Guys this is rediculous we need a fix so that
whoever can jump in and fly the plane and believe that the doors will not
fly off. I mean would the public tolerate it if a car door fell off? Why
should we. We need a fix so that you can get in shut the door "thats it" No
checking pins or reaching behind the seat etc etc.
Ok so I am not convinced about this flexing yet as we cannot be sure the
doors that have come off had the rear pins into the fuse (shut properly). So
if this is the problem then Iflyrv10.com door guides will fix the problem
as the door pins are guided into place. If we are saying there is flexing
and the pins pop out then maybe tempory fix would be what Andre has done in
here in AUS.
About to do first flight in a few weeks and i do not want to have to think
about closing a bloody door or shouls I say a door coming off.
Keep thinking guys
reggards Chris 388
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Doors coming off
Date: Apr 11, 2008
The Gold standard solution is found on the SR22; forward hinged door and
rear/top/bottom latch pin/pins. That solution would require some major re
engineering by Vans which is unlikely. In the short run, install a small
handle on the aft part of the door to aid in closing from the inside on the
ground. Then check your pins by feel or use the system. Do not shorten the
pins so that they do not penetrate the door jambs; this is a recipe for
disaster if the beveled tips hit anything where they will be
stressed/abraded etc. Eventually they may be just short enough to slip out,
given the flex of the door and the flex of the rear pushrod. IIRC it was
bent slightly to match the curvature of the door. For 29 years I closed the
passenger door on my Cardinal RG; not because it would depart the aircraft
but the passenger could damage the door. The handle had a shear pin in it so
that when the locking bar was pushed aft, it would shear if the bar was not
properly positioned and was striking the door frame. I always locked the
door to prevent my passenger from disabling the aircraft and creating a
maintenance job for me. IIRC I posted a passenger warning placard in the 10
stating that my aircraft does not conform to certification standards. In my
cases it meets or exceeds them but in the case of the doors I don't think it
does.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors coming off
Chris
I have to say I agree with you. An unclosed door should not result in an
major emergency in an un-pressurised a/c. This problem, if not corrected
will be an accident waiting to happen. It is a bit like the Far Side cartoon
the had a "Wings Off" button on the arm-rest of an airline passengers seat.
The questions is not how to prevent the button being pushed but why it was
there in the first pace.
I know the risk can be mitigated by checking, with warning lights etc. But
somewhere along the way, the failure chain will catch up with someone.
Flying my Cherokee, part of the passenger brief is that they should un-latch
the door in the event of an emergency so the door does not jam upon landing.
I am reluctant to use the Auzzie fix as it may trap you in the a/c in the
event of a crash.
So rather than "fixes", what would be the "Gold Standard" solution?
Inquiring minds need to know ....
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris and Susie McGough <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors coming off
> "I also heard several post say to reach back and feel that the
> pin has gone through the door guide. " Guys this is
> rediculous we need a fix so that whoever can jump in and fly the
> plane and believe that the doors will not fly off. I mean would
> the public tolerate it if a car door fell off? Why should we. We
> need a fix so that you can get in shut the door "thats it" No
> checking pins or reaching behind the seat etc etc.
>
> Ok so I am not convinced about this flexing yet as we cannot be
> sure the doors that have come off had the rear pins into the
> fuse (shut properly). So if this is the problem then
> Iflyrv10.com door guides will fix the problem as the door pins
> are guided into place. If we are saying there is flexing and the
> pins pop out then maybe tempory fix would be what Andre
> has done in here in AUS.
>
>
> About to do first flight in a few weeks and i do not want to
> have to think about closing a bloody door or shouls I say a door
> coming off.
>
> Keep thinking guys
>
> reggards Chris 388
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Special
From: "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Van's advises that the YIO-540-D4A5 is identical to the XIO-540-D4A5 engine. Both
are the experimental versions. Lycoming is getting more agressive with their
marketing and wanted a code letter for themselves.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176287#176287
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
From: "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 11, 2008
I'd like to see Jesse S. hop in here when he gets a chance. I understand he's
a little busy right now
[Wink]
I looked at his door at Sun & Fun today. Looks like he added both a small interior
handle near the rear of the door and a secondary latch that seals the inside
front side of the door.
Tom H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176289#176289
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
I looked over the pictures of the door departure and noticed something in the upper
hinges.
It looked like the area around the hinges had little resin between the two surfaces.
Also, the screw heads were flattened to bury them in resin so they would not
turn when tightened from below. I would guess this was to create a beautiful look
to the top of the door with no screw head showing. However, the shear force
is absorbed at the large diameter of the screw head and the mating nut surface.
Any grinding of the screw head removes area available for shear and its only
shear that is securing the top of the door to the hinges. The deeper the screw
head is set into the door the less holding strength is available from the
fiberglass. So burying the screw heads cause two problems, and if they are over
torqued cracking the fiberglass a third problem arises.
Are others using this technique to make their doors beautiful?
Look carefully at the rear door guide/protector/fuselage hole - it would appear
that the rod never reached far beyond the teflon guide, otherwise the protector
would be torn off.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
tomhanaway wrote:
I'd like to see Jesse S. hop in here when he gets a chance. I understand he's a
little busy right now
[Wink]
I looked at his door at Sun & Fun today. Looks like he added both a small interior
handle near the rear of the door and a secondary latch that seals the inside
front side of the door.
Tom H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176289#176289
________________________________________________________________________________
From: PILOTDDS(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
Worth mentioning is many light twins,for example a c-310 can lose a door if
it comes unlatched during flight.This is clearly creating a problem on the
rv-10 and we need to come up with a secondary latch system that can be released
from the outside if rescue is necesary.I used a canopy latch on the forward
bottom of the doors.A seemingly simple solution but does not allow rescuers easy
access to the cabin.Do cessna aircraft allow outside door entry if the handles
are in the down position as in normal flight? 728DD 175
hours
**************
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
Finance.
(http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
Typically, a fastened shear joint is designed so the entire shear
force is transferred in the shank of the fastener, not in the head,
even in a countersunk head. Also, having threads in bearing on the
structure is a no-no. Tension loads would be transferred by the
fastener head and nut, but typical aircraft design practice is to
design for shear loadings at joints whereever possible. That said, I
don't think there's anything wrong with the design of the -10 doors.
If the latching pins are engaged well, the hinges look robust engough
for the air loadings. As is inherent with gull-wing door designs, once
a door opens in flight and swings out past the boundary layer, it
basically becomes another short, fat wing. At 80+ knots, that results
in a rather large increase in the forces acting on the door and would
result in failures as seen in this discussion. I'd like to see if
there's a history of door failures on certified aircraft with
gull-wing doors.
KH
On 4/11/08, Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> I looked over the pictures of the door departure and noticed something in
> the upper hinges.
>
> It looked like the area around the hinges had little resin between the two
> surfaces.
>
> Also, the screw heads were flattened to bury them in resin so they would
> not turn when tightened from below. I would guess this was to create a
> beautiful look to the top of the door with no screw head showing. However,
> the shear force is absorbed at the large diameter of the screw head and the
> mating nut surface. Any grinding of the screw head removes area available
> for shear and its only shear that is securing the top of the door to the
> hinges. The deeper the screw head is set into the door the less holding
> strength is available from the fiberglass. So burying the screw heads cause
> two problems, and if they are over torqued cracking the fiberglass a third
> problem arises.
>
> Are others using this technique to make their doors beautiful?
>
> Look carefully at the rear door guide/protector/fuselage hole - it would
> appear that the rod never reached far beyond the teflon guide, otherwise the
> protector would be torn off.
>
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB, flying
>
> tomhanaway wrote:
>
> I'd like to see Jesse S. hop in here when he gets a chance. I understand
> he's a little busy right now
> [Wink]
>
> I looked at his door at Sun & Fun today. Looks like he added both a small
> interior handle near the rear of the door and a secondary latch that seals
> the inside front side of the door.
>
> Tom H.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176289#176289
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
This post is read by a number of readers on this list as well, but for
those who do not follow it there, the value is clear in reviewing the
attached Ron Wanttaja PDF.
Dumb Pilot Errors are the leading cause of RV accidents (significantly).
Maintenance is seldom the cause because there are so many experts out
there on such popular kits. Builder Errors for RVs are greater than
Homebuilts in general and may be a result of many assuming that
techniques used by others and factory plans are without fault and the
builders blindly move ahead with the moving herd. Try being the first
for the Acme 1000 and every step is carefully considered and reviewed.
Fuel Exhaustion in RVs is inexcusably high and is significantly higher
than other homebuilts. (Tell me Why?)
Now, here is where you should each be focusing. These statistics are not
yet updated for calendar 2005 and 2006 (the RV-10 began gaining flight
hours in 2005). Ron concluded that lower accident rates for RVs is a
result of generally higher hours of aeronautical experience and more
advanced ratings of RV pilots. If you have ever looked over the field
of RVers at EAA functions you could conclude they tend to be much older
and therefore less bold. Conclusion, the RV-10 is significantly more
complex and challenging than our little brother RV-6, RV-7 or RV8. A
statistically large number of RV-10 builders had/have no pilots license
(during the build) or significantly lower experience than Ron's premise.
Many of the builders are younger than his statistics imply. A high
percentage have minimally low IFR time (Tim is an exception here).
This is an opportunity in the making for rather dramatic Recurrent and
Advanced Training for Pilots from the RV-10 fleet. We have the ability
to skew the accident statistics either direction we choose. The choice
is truly ours.
Do you want to play or move with the herd? The insurance underwriters
will move these policy costs to remain profitable businessmen. Three
(possibly four) aircraft total losses and four POBs in the last five
months. 2008 is going to be a busy year.
John C - circa 2008
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:05 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
Hi all,
I am sure that a lot of you have heard of or read some of Ron
Wanttaja,'s articles
He writes article and gives talks at EAA functions about safety etc.and
does statistical studies
mostly pertaining to homebuilt aircraft. I have known
him for a few years and I wrote to him and ask if he could help with the
statistic regarding
RV accidents compared to the rest of the homebuilt community
and this is what he sent me.
Jerry Springer
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Can can I post this on the RV-List?
> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV
flying
> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of
the
> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs
apart from
> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to
point people
> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with
RV accident
> statistics.
I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the
articles.
Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident
causes and
compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents
from
1998 through 2004, inclusive.
"General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder
skills;
"SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box
canyons,
etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to
interesting
results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country'
accidents.
The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher
general
experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours.
During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all
homebuilts was
about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a
given
year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In
contrast,
the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered
aircraft was
0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall
fleet.
I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be
updating the
graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you
never
know....
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: door opening
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Considering that some of the previous door in-flight openings occurred on
takeoff (in a climb) and the door missed the airframe, it would seem
reasonable that at the onset of a problem, to immediately initiate a climb.
It appears that the only incident where the door hit the airframe was during
cruise flight. If there are other instances of same I would be interested to
hear.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Given the inital guesses of primary cause of the three fatal 10 crashes (out
of 100+ flying) they seem to be spread over three categories. I do agree ,
however , that time in type and recent experience are prime considerations
of insurance companies as well as indicators of probable safe operation.
Certainly continuing to fly regularly while building will promote improved
accident stats. Another thing that will improve safety is getting real
comfortable with all the new electronics and button pushing in day VFR
before expanding the envelope. Read the accident reports where the pilot
says to the co-pilot, "wonder why its doing that?" then (sound of impact) on
the CVR.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FW: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
This post is read by a number of readers on this list as well, but for those
who do not follow it there, the value is clear in reviewing the attached Ron
Wanttaja PDF.
Dumb Pilot Errors are the leading cause of RV accidents (significantly).
Maintenance is seldom the cause because there are so many experts out there
on such popular kits. Builder Errors for RVs are greater than Homebuilts in
general and may be a result of many assuming that techniques used by others
and factory plans are without fault and the builders blindly move ahead
with the moving herd. Try being the first for the Acme 1000 and every step
is carefully considered and reviewed. Fuel Exhaustion in RVs is inexcusably
high and is significantly higher than other homebuilts. (Tell me Why?)
Now, here is where you should each be focusing. These statistics are not yet
updated for calendar 2005 and 2006 (the RV-10 began gaining flight hours in
2005). Ron concluded that lower accident rates for RVs is a result of
generally higher hours of aeronautical experience and more advanced ratings
of RV pilots. If you have ever looked over the field of RVers at EAA
functions you could conclude they tend to be much older and therefore less
bold. Conclusion, the RV-10 is significantly more complex and challenging
than our little brother RV-6, RV-7 or RV8. A statistically large number of
RV-10 builders had/have no pilots license (during the build) or
significantly lower experience than Ron's premise. Many of the builders
are younger than his statistics imply. A high percentage have minimally low
IFR time (Tim is an exception here).
This is an opportunity in the making for rather dramatic Recurrent and
Advanced Training for Pilots from the RV-10 fleet. We have the ability to
skew the accident statistics either direction we choose. The choice is
truly ours.
Do you want to play or move with the herd? The insurance underwriters will
move these policy costs to remain profitable businessmen. Three (possibly
four) aircraft total losses and four POBs in the last five months. 2008 is
going to be a busy year.
John C - circa 2008
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:05 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
Hi all,
I am sure that a lot of you have heard of or read some of Ron Wanttaja,'s
articles
He writes article and gives talks at EAA functions about safety etc.and does
statistical studies
mostly pertaining to homebuilt aircraft. I have known
him for a few years and I wrote to him and ask if he could help with the
statistic regarding
RV accidents compared to the rest of the homebuilt community
and this is what he sent me.
Jerry Springer
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Can can I post this on the RV-List?
> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV flying
> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of the
> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs apart from
> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to point
people
> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with RV accident
> statistics.
I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the articles.
Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident causes
and
compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents from
1998 through 2004, inclusive.
"General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder skills;
"SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box
canyons,
etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to interesting
results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country'
accidents.
The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher
general
experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours.
During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all homebuilts
was
about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a given
year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In
contrast,
the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered aircraft
was
0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall fleet.
I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be updating
the
graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you never
know....
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: FW: Door pins
Date: Apr 12, 2008
-----Original Message-----
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: Door pins
Attached are pictures of two aft pins from Van's. I tapped the tubes with a
5/16" 18 tap. Note the different bevels. We did not modify the bevels. The
full tube on picture 39 is at least .16 longer than the picture 36. There
are at least three additional turns of the tap to indicate the length
difference. Picture 35 is the pin in the closed position of the door with
the shorter bevel (sent in another message). (And yes I know I need an
aluminum cover over the latch pin.)
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMG_0039
IMG_0036
IMG_0037
IMG_0038
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Emailing: IMG_0035
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMG_0035
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GRT HX
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I am going with the HX screen in my panel. On the website for GRT they now have
a pricing wizard that should answer most of your questions. The dual screen is
$11,000, and pricing goes up from there with the options. I haven't seen any
screen shots of it yet and couldn't make it to Sun N fun. If anyone has some
screen shots send them my way. The capabilities proposed at the price of the system
were paramount in my decision to go with the GRT HX. I tried attaching the
pdf of my panel, hope I got it right. It is being built by Accuracy Avionics
while I am off playing Army for a year. Hopefully it is ready by OshKosh for
them to display and some of you will take plenty of pictures for me.
Eric Kallio
40518 buildus interruptus...was finishing the canopy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176535#176535
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kallio_dual_grt_151.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wheel pants/lower strut fairing
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 13, 2008
If anyone is interested, I thought I'd post some pictures of how the wheel pants
fiberglass work is turning out. This is using Fred Williams' model. (THANKS
FRED!) You can also see the covering of the hinge rivets on the strut pants.
I forgot to take pictures of the initial splitting of the lower fairings. I split
them first, then positioned them on the strut fairing with the wheels off the
ground, strings pulled to the step, etc. then drilled and clecoed the halves
to the wheel pants, then fiberglassed them in position, filled the cleco holes,
built up overlapping lips (2" glass cloth/resin) ... and there you go.
They sandwich together and hold the strut pants perfectly in position, eliminates
the screws on the lower strut fairings. If you are planning on doing this,
it's best to split the fairing just forward of the apex of the strut curve --
otherwise you have to spread the front lips to install them on the back half.
No Bondo -- you convinced me! Mixing the microbeads in the fiberglass (Western
systems) is a bit more trouble, but it smooths OK and no worries about bonding.
With primer (2K urethane) they will slick up just fine.
The plans for the upper strut fairings look a little dinky to me -- sheet metal
screws? Has anyone improved upon this? I guess it's not really critical and since
they overlap the fuse and the wing joining panel, they have to be removable.
Probably a little weird, but this glass work gives me lots of satisfaction.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176537#176537
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_1_medium_357.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_2_medium_148.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_3_medium_199.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_4_medium_796.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_5_medium_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_6_medium_133.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_7_medium_103.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_8_medium_739.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_9_medium_192.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hearing the Bear, Watching the Bear .. wanting to dance
rath
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I haven't heard anything about a "new list" but I was at Van's BBQ Friday night.
Dick spoke about the new rules and said that the existing kits are grandfathered
in. The only kit in question from Van is the RV-12. My take on that statement
is that if you go buy an RV-8 kit tomorrow or next year, you are still under
the same rule as all the other RV-8s ever built.
Good BBQ, by the way.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176542#176542
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Hearing the Bear, Watching the Bear .. wanting to
dance rath
Ignore the EAA self promotion. I like how they like to take 100% of
the credit.
Previously Approved Kits to be 'Grandfathered'
FAA responds to EAA advocacy efforts
*April 11 2008* Manufacturers and owners of aircraft kits that were
previously evaluated and approved by the FAA as eligible to be
certificated in the Experimental Amateur-Built Category under the FAAs
51% Rule received welcome news at Sun n Fun Friday. The FAA announced
that its will not re-evaluate any previously approved aircraft kits
under its new policy on amateur-built certification.
Kim Smith, manager of the FAAs Small Airplane Directorate, appeared at
the Meet the FAA session Friday afternoon at Lakeland and made the
announcement, which essentially grandfathers those kits that appear on
the FAAs 51% approved list. The FAA suspended making evaluations
earlier this year until it finalizes its new policy revisiting
amateur-built certification, which was prompted by concerns over
excessive commercial assistance and prefabrication that could cause
finished aircraft to fall outside the homebuilt certification regulations.
There was no intent to reevaluate previously evaluated kits, Smith
explained. An NPRM (notice of proposed rulemaking) will be issued
sometime hopefully early next week stating that we will not re-evaluate
kits that have already been evaluated.
Asked by an EAA staffer if the term, grandfathered would apply, Smith
agreed that it would.
Several manufacturers exhibiting at Lakeland, who served on the
amateur-built aviation rulemaking committee (ARC) welcomed the news,
saying they had expected the FAA to heed the ARCs suggestion to not
re-evaluate previously approved kits.
This is good news, said Joe Bartels, president of Lancair, whose new
model Evolution was recently evaluated and approved as eligible for A-B
certification. We indeed needed that reassurance, and the FAA has
evaluated our new Evolution and found it to meet the requirements.
Mikael Via of Glasair Aviation added, Thats what we on the ARC
expected, and were glad to see it. Our main concern is what the new
policy will be regarding new kits, so well have to wait and see about
that. We look forward to learning the end result.
Dick Van Grunsven of Vans Aircraft also was not surprised at the
announcement. We expected them (approved kits) to be grandfathered, he
said. But we dont expect it to be business as usual, either. They
(inspectors) may pay closer attention than they used to when inspecting
the kits from now on, to make sure they do not exceed what is allowed
for commercial assistance.
EAA President Tom Poberezny, who is at Lakeland this week, added, We
are extremely pleased about the FAA announcement to grandfather kits
that have already been approved.
Earl Lawrence, EAA vice president of industry and regulatory affairs and
co-chair of the ARC, applauded the announcement. This shows that EAA
advocacy efforts are working and that the FAA is sensitive to the
concerns of current amateur-builders, he said. But EAA members need to
continue to be vigilant, and continue to follow this effort. If youre
an amateur-builder, we encourage you to write the FAA
<http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/public_comment_letter.pdf> to help ensure
that they fully understand from the builders perspective how what you
are doing is fully within the intent and letter of the regulation.
Innovation should not be restricted.
At the same meeting Friday, the FAA also released a draft of an NPRM
that fixes several long-awaited changed to the sport pilot-slight-sport
aircraft regulations.
johngoodman wrote:
>
> I haven't heard anything about a "new list" but I was at Van's BBQ Friday night.
Dick spoke about the new rules and said that the existing kits are grandfathered
in. The only kit in question from Van is the RV-12. My take on that statement
is that if you go buy an RV-8 kit tomorrow or next year, you are still
under the same rule as all the other RV-8s ever built.
>
> Good BBQ, by the way.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176542#176542
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV safety
> From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
>
> Conclusion, the RV-10 is significantly more
> complex and challenging than our little brother RV-6, RV-7 or RV8.
I can second John's observation as I continue to fly my RV-7A (more or less one
of the last round gauge panel RV's to be built, with first flight in December
2003) and my RV-10 with its GRT dual EFIS coupled to GNS480 and TruTrak with
GSVG.
The -7A requires more attention to airmanship, especially in slow flight where
those short wings will bite you if a stall occurs close to the ground. The -10
is much more forgiving with respect to airspeeds and handling.
The -7A does have an approach certified GPS (UPS GX-60) that gives course guidance
to a TruTrak with altitude hold, but I have to mind the altitude during IFR
approaches just like in the days of hand-flown ILS's. One can either have the
GPS fly the approach, or can abandon the approach and go missed; that's about
it. So when things don't go according to plan on an approach, there is a real
simple mindset of 'ok, let's climb, get out of here, and make some other plan'.
The RV-10, on the other hand, has a bunch of different autopilot modes: its own
internal course guidance from the TruTrak, GPSS guidance which is coming from
the EFIS and might or might not really be GPSS, since the EFIS generates its
own course guidance. And the GNS480 has a mind of its own about what it calls
discontinuities between enroute and approach configurations.
With the latest database update on the GNS480 it suddenly decided that approaches
to my home airport in Nashville can only be flown via STARS (Standard Terminal
Arrival Routes) and the last time I was in the muck trying to get home it
suprised me by asking me to choose a STAR before it would load the approach.
Not even knowing what approach fixes where in each STAR, I fiddled for a few minutes
then just asked for a vector to final on the ILS from approach control,
which they provided. Ended up just hand flying the ILS with traditional needle
displays since the fancy WAAS GPS was completely rigid in its sequencing, and
not useful at that point. Good thing I have hand flown that approach many
many times.
So my assessment of the fancy electronics is that they are wonderful when everything
is going according to plan, but have way too many subtle failure modes when
the game changes and one has to make a new plan while hurtling along IMC at
200 mph. Yes, I will go back to school and figure out how to insert STARS into
the flight planning, but remain suspicious of losing positional awareness
when a surprise comes my way in an approach environment.
My friend Ham Cartwright put his superbly equipped RV-10 into the trees in Alabama
last week, and took another friend of mine, Bob Lloyd to the great beyond
with him. Ham's RV-10 had nearly identical avionics to mine: Dual GRT EFIS, TruTrak
GSVG, though with a Garmin 430W instead of a 480. The sad radar track
on flightaware.com of his last flight sure has the signature wandering of an IFR
flight that has gotten seriously lost and disoriented. Sure hope he wasn't
fiddling with the fancy boxes trying to reprogram them as they hit.
Stay safe, friends.
-Dan Masys
RV-10 N104LD
RV-7A N747DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Windscreen Crazing
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I had a similar issue with crazing that occurred under a tape line that
I used to mask off the top of the fiberglass edge at the base of the
windscreen. After replacing the windshield, I did a bunch of tests on
the old windscreen to see what would make it craze. I was able to get
cracks and crazing using the Van's recommended Weld-On when under
pressure (not a lot of pressure, but some pressure). I decided to
switch on my second install to Sika-Flex. I pooled acetone on the
window until it evaporated, no crazing. I then took the Sika-Flex
primer and applied it and let it air dry for a few minutes (not fully
cured, but dry to the touch). Then when I sprayed it with acetone, it
disintegrated the primer and proceeded to craze the windshield in that
area... Looks just like your window did.
I then took a fresh section, applied the primer and let it dry
overnight. I then sprayed it with the acetone and it would not remove
the primer and it did not craze the windscreen. I played around with it
again and if I sprayed the acetone before the primer was dry, it would
craze the window every time.
There clearly was some reaction with the Sika-Flex primer and acetone
while the primer was not fully cured. This never explained why my RV-10
windscreen crazed, but I have come to the conclusion to not use acetone
on my windscreen (even though others have used it for years with 'no
issues').
FYI, for removing the windscreen I took a router and set the depth to
the window thickness and routed around the edges where it was adhered.
It made a big mess, but it sure did a nice job and left a nice surface
to glue the new windshield to....
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 Flying
RV-10 FWF and wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby J.
Hughes
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Windscreen Crazing
Yesterday I decided to remove the protective coverings from all my
windows. The inside had the factory plastic coating still in place and
the outside had been covered with spraylat after installation of the
windscreen. I think the spraylat was applied in August 2006. Plane was
moved to the hanger via a wrecker in December 2006.
We used the lancair method and materials to glue in all of the windows.
Hysol mixed with flox. Only the windscreen has any signs of crazing. We
glued a lancair ES, Mark Ritters RV10 and mine within a few months of
each other. The ES is flying with no problems and Mark's plane did not
have any cracks using this method. Acetone was used on the glue seam
and frame but none touched any other part of the glass.
Any ideas?
Bobby J Hughes
40116
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hearing the Bear, Watching the Bear .. wanting to
dance rath
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Larry & John - All of this smacks of big (Good Ole) boy politic. One
manufacturer does not want their volume of kit sales reduced. A second
manufacturer had a kit that was not approved when this suspension went
into effect and is glad it is going to be grandfathered back before the
suspension started. This is before they even had a flying prototype
(The EVO was NOT PREVIOUSLY EVALUATED). Another blatantly promotes that
they can stay under the definition of 51% and do it all with a novice
builder with teams of factory trained professionals in "Two Weeks to
Taxi". Where is that representative of the lone guy in his garage who
does all of the build themselves (within 51%, that the rule was supposed
to protect)?
The vast majority of those 29,000+ Experimentals were plans built, kit
build or true one of a kind prototypes before the big boys developed
"Factory Endorsed Quick Build", "Two weeks to Taxi" or This kit can only
be completed at our unique one of a kind "Safety is object ONE" factory.
This whole mess began over Rick Schrameck slapping 1250 shp turboprops
from mothballed Beech Starships into a composite build fuselage only at
their "Safety" factory concept. Sounds like Epic made the Grandfather
cut. I am clearly missing how grandfathering Fat Cats shows a great job
the EAA is doing for the individual members. Point me in the right
direction.
The only thing I can conclude is the Professional Build shops who buy
kits and build to order, are about to be fed to the Bear. I am still
wanting to see the revised Tasks List that was being applied against
those kits that they looked at SNF '08. Sounds like it may have gotten
harder to meet the new Task List for the little guys. Let's see ...
Taxes due April 15th then read the Federal Registry for the facts from
SNF. Got it! The fuse is lit on April 15th, 2008. Don't sit on the
sideline as this NPRM deadline lapses.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hearing the Bear, Watching the Bear ..
wanting to dance rath
Ignore the EAA self promotion. I like how they like to take 100% of
the credit.
Previously Approved Kits to be 'Grandfathered'
FAA responds to EAA advocacy efforts
*April 11 2008* - Manufacturers and owners of aircraft kits that were
previously evaluated and approved by the FAA as eligible to be
certificated in the Experimental Amateur-Built Category under the FAA's
51% Rule received welcome news at Sun 'n Fun Friday. The FAA announced
that it will not re-evaluate any previously approved aircraft kits
under its new policy on amateur-built certification.
Kim Smith, manager of the FAA's Small Airplane Directorate, appeared at
the "Meet the FAA" session Friday afternoon at Lakeland and made the
announcement, which essentially grandfathers those kits that appear on
the FAA's 51% approved list. The FAA suspended making evaluations
earlier this year until it finalizes its new policy revisiting
amateur-built certification, which was prompted by concerns over
excessive commercial assistance and prefabrication that could cause
finished aircraft to fall outside the homebuilt certification
regulations.
"There was no intent to reevaluate previously evaluated kits," Smith
explained. "An NPRM (notice of proposed rulemaking) will be issued
sometime hopefully early next week stating that we will not re-evaluate
kits that have already been evaluated."
Asked by an EAA staffer if the term, "grandfathered" would apply, Smith
agreed that it would.
Several manufacturers exhibiting at Lakeland, who served on the
amateur-built aviation rulemaking committee (ARC) welcomed the news,
saying they had expected the FAA to heed the ARC's suggestion to not
re-evaluate previously approved kits.
"This is good news," said Joe Bartels, president of Lancair, whose new
model Evolution was recently evaluated and approved as eligible for A-B
certification. "We indeed needed that reassurance, and the FAA has
evaluated our new Evolution and found it to meet the requirements."
Mikael Via of Glasair Aviation added, "That's what we on the ARC
expected, and we're glad to see it. Our main concern is what the new
policy will be regarding new kits, so we'll have to wait and see about
that. We look forward to learning the end result."
Dick Van Grunsven of Van's Aircraft also was not surprised at the
announcement. "We expected them (approved kits) to be grandfathered," he
said. "But we don't expect it to be business as usual, either. They
(inspectors) may pay closer attention than they used to when inspecting
the kits from now on, to make sure they do not exceed what is allowed
for commercial assistance."
EAA President Tom Poberezny, who is at Lakeland this week, added, "We
are extremely pleased about the FAA announcement to grandfather kits
that have already been approved."
Earl Lawrence, EAA vice president of industry and regulatory affairs and
co-chair of the ARC, applauded the announcement. "This shows that EAA
advocacy efforts are working and that the FAA is sensitive to the
concerns of current amateur-builders," he said. "But EAA members need to
continue to be vigilant, and continue to follow this effort. If you're
an amateur-builder, we encourage you to write the FAA
<http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/public_comment_letter.pdf> to help ensure
that they fully understand from the builder's perspective how what you
are doing is fully within the intent and letter of the regulation.
Innovation should not be restricted."
At the same meeting Friday, the FAA also released a draft of an NPRM
that fixes several long-awaited changed to the sport pilot-slight-sport
aircraft regulations.
johngoodman wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Jan's posting of VAF regarding Dan's incident
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Check out:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28964
Jan just posted a note talking Eggenfellner service alert about
appropriately crimping battery connections. Although he didn't post the
actual NTSB findings, it does imply that the root cause may have been that
improperly crimped battery cables may have caused the engine to quit.
It would be interesting to read the actual NTSB preliminary report.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: oil door
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Just a heads up The 2600-3W as supplied by Van's is one size too small if
you do any buildup on the back side of the door to make it flush with the
cowl. A Camloc 2600-4W is required. $7.50 each from Spruce. They doubled
their catalog price this year.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Howard Crawford <crawfordh22(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: test
Date: Apr 13, 2008
A test to verify sending capabilities.
Howard
_________________________________________________________________
Pack up or back up'use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. L
earn how.
hthttp://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Ref
resh_skydrive_packup_042008
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Doors coming off
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Ahhh, the threads in the end of the rod.
I had asked earlier (and don't remember a response) about if the only reason to
thread the end of the rod was to put a center marker in it to mark the sill.
If so, seems like overkill when a marker can be put in there to do the same thing
(a pencil is the right diameter), whether threads weaken the rod or not.
Folks are leaving the bolt in there and grinding it flush with the taper for strength?
The AL rod isn't strong enough? OK, but I didn't like the idea of screwing
in a bullet tip to extend the rod -- which I envision having to grind off
the original taper, then the threaded joint would be very close to a shear
point ... ?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176643#176643
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV safety
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Hi Dan,
I'm not familiar with the GRT system, but with the Chelton's when you
are loading an approach into your flight plan it allows you to select
VTF vectors to final. Does the GRT possible have that option somewhere
inside it? Also I think on the Chelton you can temporarily select OBS or
heading bug mode for vectors and then switch back to the approach at the
appropriate time.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV safety
With the latest database update on the GNS480 it suddenly decided
that approaches
to my home airport in Nashville can only be flown via STARS
(Standard Terminal
Arrival Routes) and the last time I was in the muck trying to get
home it
suprised me by asking me to choose a STAR before it would load the
approach.
Not even knowing what approach fixes where in each STAR, I fiddled
for a few minutes
then just asked for a vector to final on the ILS from approach
control,
which they provided. Ended up just hand flying the ILS with
traditional needle
displays since the fancy WAAS GPS was completely rigid in its
sequencing, and
not useful at that point. Good thing I have hand flown that
approach many
many times.
So my assessment of the fancy electronics is that they are
wonderful when everything
is going according to plan, but have way too many subtle failure
modes when
the game changes and one has to make a new plan while hurtling
along IMC at
200 mph. Yes, I will go back to school and figure out how to
insert STARS into
the flight planning, but remain suspicious of losing positional
awareness
when a surprise comes my way in an approach environment.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: RV safety
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Wayne, I just started to really figure out my GRT system, but what I think
is happening is that Dan and me are using the 480 (430 in my case) to enter
the flight plan and "execute" the approach. I know on the 430 I just select
the approach and then hit vectors to final, set the GRT to heading mod
(heading bug) and arm the system for the approach. The only thing I have
tested it on has been an ILS and once I get within 2.5 degrees of the
localizer course, the system automatically switches to nav mod and tracks
the localizer. Pretty cool for a guy who has never really had an autopilot
before and never flown a coupled approach.
It looks like the way the 480 handles the approaches into Nashiville has
changed in the 480?
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV safety
Hi Dan,
I'm not familiar with the GRT system, but with the Chelton's when you are
loading an approach into your flight plan it allows you to select VTF
vectors to final. Does the GRT possible have that option somewhere inside
it? Also I think on the Chelton you can temporarily select OBS or heading
bug mode for vectors and then switch back to the approach at the appropriate
time.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Time:
From:
Dan Masys
Subject:
Re: RV safety
With the latest database update on the GNS480 it suddenly decided that
approaches
to my home airport in Nashville can only be flown via STARS (Standard
Terminal
Arrival Routes) and the last time I was in the muck trying to get home
it
suprised me by asking me to choose a STAR before it would load the
approach.
Not even knowing what approach fixes where in each STAR, I fiddled for
a few minutes
then just asked for a vector to final on the ILS from approach
control,
which they provided. Ended up just hand flying the ILS with
traditional needle
displays since the fancy WAAS GPS was completely rigid in its
sequencing, and
not useful at that point. Good thing I have hand flown that approach
many
many times.
So my assessment of the fancy electronics is that they are wonderful
when everything
is going according to plan, but have way too many subtle failure modes
when
the game changes and one has to make a new plan while hurtling along
IMC at
200 mph. Yes, I will go back to school and figure out how to insert
STARS into
the flight planning, but remain suspicious of losing positional
awareness
when a surprise comes my way in an approach environment.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Windscreen Crazing
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
Mike,
Now that SNF is over I am waiting to hear from the windshield folks. How
long did it take for the crazing to start \ stop during your various
tests? Did it progress over time? Not sure what method I will use this
time but I may try the Sika-Flex or use the Hysol and flox method again.
Thanks,
Bobby
40116
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Windscreen Crazing
I had a similar issue with crazing that occurred under a tape line that
I used to mask off the top of the fiberglass edge at the base of the
windscreen. After replacing the windshield, I did a bunch of tests on
the old windscreen to see what would make it craze. I was able to get
cracks and crazing using the Van's recommended Weld-On when under
pressure (not a lot of pressure, but some pressure). I decided to
switch on my second install to Sika-Flex. I pooled acetone on the
window until it evaporated, no crazing. I then took the Sika-Flex
primer and applied it and let it air dry for a few minutes (not fully
cured, but dry to the touch). Then when I sprayed it with acetone, it
disintegrated the primer and proceeded to craze the windshield in that
area... Looks just like your window did.
I then took a fresh section, applied the primer and let it dry
overnight. I then sprayed it with the acetone and it would not remove
the primer and it did not craze the windscreen. I played around with it
again and if I sprayed the acetone before the primer was dry, it would
craze the window every time.
There clearly was some reaction with the Sika-Flex primer and acetone
while the primer was not fully cured. This never explained why my RV-10
windscreen crazed, but I have come to the conclusion to not use acetone
on my windscreen (even though others have used it for years with 'no
issues').
FYI, for removing the windscreen I took a router and set the depth to
the window thickness and routed around the edges where it was adhered.
It made a big mess, but it sure did a nice job and left a nice surface
to glue the new windshield to....
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 Flying
RV-10 FWF and wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby J.
Hughes
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 1:04 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Windscreen Crazing
Yesterday I decided to remove the protective coverings from all
my windows. The inside had the factory plastic coating still in place
and the outside had been covered with spraylat after installation of the
windscreen. I think the spraylat was applied in August 2006. Plane was
moved to the hanger via a wrecker in December 2006.
We used the lancair method and materials to glue in all of the
windows. Hysol mixed with flox. Only the windscreen has any signs of
crazing. We glued a lancair ES, Mark Ritters RV10 and mine within a few
months of each other. The ES is flying with no problems and Mark's plane
did not have any cracks using this method. Acetone was used on the glue
seam and frame but none touched any other part of the glass.
Any ideas?
Bobby J Hughes
40116
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Subject: Re: RV safety
Guys and Gals...you may want to read that manual very carefully before
launching and trying to learn by flying...you'll spend too much heads down
time...most systems have a simulator mode or stand alone software simulators...you
might want to find a way to plug in your system on the ground and use the
simulator there so that when you get airborn spending fuel you're not waiting
time and altitude cranking dials and flipping screens learning...and please
consider taking along a safety pilot when out with your big screens
practicing...hopefully someone with TAA experience.
P
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV safety
Date: Apr 14, 2008
It may be about time to remind ourselves of a prime directive .
If I can't fly IFR/IMC without the Autopilot, then I can't fly IFR.
I agree with RV Safety; learn how to tell the electronics how to do what you
want/need, don't depend on a working autopilot to do the job for you.
Take a look at www.flightaware.com (IFR plans and some flight following) and
stick in an N number of interest. Watch the groundspeed and altitude
excursions. Changes of 30-40 knots and 1000+ feet between minutes may
indicate a hand flyer who is not current to fly IFR without an autopilot (
or less likely very turbulent air and the PIC has requested the block
altitude).
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV safety
Guys and Gals...you may want to read that manual very carefully before
launching and trying to learn by flying...you'll spend too much heads down
time...most systems have a simulator mode or stand alone software
simulators...you might want to find a way to plug in your system on the
ground and use the simulator there so that when you get airborn spending
fuel you're not waiting time and altitude cranking dials and flipping
screens learning...and please consider taking along a safety pilot when out
with your big screens practicing...hopefully someone with TAA experience.
P
_____
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL
<http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850> Money & Finance.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Wheel pants/lower strut fairing
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Hi Lew,=0A=0AThank you for the photos. I've been doing the same
mod over the last few days so your post is timely and appreciated.
=0AI have also been thinking of the upper fairing and the only thing I
've come up with is using nut plates where accessibility will allow.
=0AAre you going to do anything about an access door for putting ai
r in the tires? I was thinking of a door like Cessna's, either spring
loaded or flush latched, maybe both. Since it would be a "curved" door
, the hinge will need some special attention to keep from binding. Any
thoughts?=0A=0ARoger=0A#40291=0A ----- Original Message
----- =0A From: Lew Gallagher<mailto:lewgall(at)charter.net> =0A
nt: Sunday, April 13, 2008 8:29 AM=0A Subject: RV10-List: Wheel pa
nts/lower strut fairing=0A=0A=0A --> RV10-List message poste
d by: "Lew Gallagher"
>=0A=0A If anyone is interested, I thought I'd post some pictur
es of how the wheel pants fiberglass work is turning out. This is usin
g Fred Williams' model. (THANKS FRED!) You can also see the covering o
f the hinge rivets on the strut pants. =0A=0A I forgot to take
pictures of the initial splitting of the lower fairings. I split them
first, then positioned them on the strut fairing with the wheels off t
he ground, strings pulled to the step, etc. then drilled and clecoed t
he halves to the wheel pants, then fiberglassed them in position, fill
ed the cleco holes, built up overlapping lips (2" glass cloth/resin) .
. and there you go. =0A=0A They sandwich together and hold the
strut pants perfectly in position, eliminates the screws on the lower
strut fairings. If you are planning on doing this, it's best to split
the fairing just forward of the apex of the strut curve -- otherwise
you have to spread the front lips to install them on the back half.
=0A=0A No Bondo -- you convinced me! Mixing the microbeads in t
he fiberglass (Western systems) is a bit more trouble, but it smooths
OK and no worries about bonding. With primer (2K urethane) they will s
lick up just fine. =0A=0A The plans for the upper strut fairing
s look a little dinky to me -- sheet metal screws? Has anyone improved
upon this? I guess it's not really critical and since they overlap th
e fuse and the wing joining panel, they have to be removable. =0A
=0A Probably a little weird, but this glass work gives me lots of
satisfaction. =0A=0A Later, - Lew=0A=0A --------=0A
non-pilot=0A crazy about building=0A NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40
549=0A doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A Read this topic online here:=0A=0A http://forums.mat
ronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176537#176537<http://forums.matronics.com
/viewtopic.php?p=176537#176537>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Attac
hments: =0A=0A http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_1_mediu
m_357.jpg<http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_1_medium_357.jpg>
=0A http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_2_medium_148.jpg
://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_2_medium_148.jpg>=0A http://f
orums.matronics.com//files/pants_3_medium_199.jpg<http://forums.matron
ics.com//files/pants_3_medium_199.jpg>=0A http://forums.matronics.
com//files/pants_4_medium_796.jpg<http://forums.matronics.com//files/p
ants_4_medium_796.jpg>=0A http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants
_5_medium_170.jpg<http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_5_medium_17
0.jpg>=0A http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_6_medium_133.jp
g<http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_6_medium_133.jpg>=0A ht
tp://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_7_medium_103.jpg<http://forums.
matronics.com//files/pants_7_medium_103.jpg>=0A http://forums.matr
onics.com//files/pants_8_medium_739.jpg<http://forums.matronics.com//f
iles/pants_8_medium_739.jpg>=0A http://forums.matronics.com//files
/pants_9_medium_192.jpg<http://forums.matronics.com//files/pants_9_med
=======================
=======================
onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Subject: Re: RV safety
I know you're correct on being proficient on hand flying the
approaches...but going out and learning new electronics while flying is a bit
crazy to
me...one spends way too much head down time reading, selecting and looking for
buttons/switches/and moving screens about...sort not the time to learn with your
head down...makes one run into the ground or another plane a real
possibility.
It took me a couple of days in class, studying and sitting on the ground to
learn the G 1000 and autopilot system plus all the new places for radio and
phone on the audio panel presentation...if one were moving at 170kts you'll
cover a few miles in a minute while you glance down...it's really hard to
believe all the information you can go through quickly and what it takes to find
exactly what you want get it displayed and inserted into your flight plan.
It's pretty easy to fumble around for a few minutes...if you're going the Garmin
approach..you may want to look at their FITS program.
P
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James, Peter [SD]" <Peter.James(at)sprint.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Subject: Humbling Experience
Dear -10 Listers,
I have debated for several days whether to hit the send button on this e-ma
il. I am not sure that it is my place to share this experience. I attende
d SNF this year and was pleased to look over all of the -10s that were in a
ttendance. It is exciting to know that my plane will sit in the same row w
ith these birds in the near future. But that's not the reason for this mes
sage.....
On the way home from SNF, we stopped in Georgia to look at a ground looped
Skybolt that one of my fellow chapter members is considering purchasing. D
uring the conversation with the salvage yard, I mentioned that I was buildi
ng an RV-10...and that unfortunately, one had gone down last week. The gen
t helping us stated that the plane was there.... Right next to where we wer
e standing. We wandered over and took a look...
I have never been humbled as much as I was at the Vietnam Memorial in Washi
ngton, D.C. While standing looking at the downed plane, I had a second mov
ing experience -- similar to that at "The Wall". I recognized the structur
es. I saw the parts that I am so intimately familiar with. I saw the deva
station that the passengers in this aircraft must have endured. I can only
hope that they did not suffer.
I am told that the field of debris was 600 feet long (2 football fields).
The first sign of contact was fiberglass imbedded 4" into tree tops. The l
ast item in the field was the engine. In all my days, I have never seen a
propeller as curled as this one. I am not familiar with all of the detai
ls..... but I can tell you this..... There were structures that had every
rivet sheared off. I recognized parts that I thought would be impossible t
o destroy...yet here they were in pieces. It was my familiarity with the p
arts and pieces that made this moment so significant. I cannot imagine wh
at was happening at the time the airframe came to this state of being. I d
id not know the pilot or passenger. I wish that I could have met them. I
am sure they were fine individuals, as all of the -10 builders seem to be.
Why am I writing this, you ask? I am not concerned about insurance or the
future of our small community of builders. I am not concerned about bent s
heet metal. I am writing this to encourage you, my airplane and aviation f
amily, to think twice before entering into an area filled with Thunderstorm
s. I have no idea what happened, but I do know that this one stop... this
10 minutes in Georgia... will change the way that I "pilot"...maybe for the
rest of my life. I have landed for weather before....and I will again.
>From now on...I will be much quicker to make a "NO GO" decision. I encoura
ge you to do the same. The boys from Lancair told harrowing tales of their
trip down this year...and how they had been at 400' AGL above an interstat
e to avoid towers. I was amazed that they survived their complete lack of
judgment. We all can suffer from "get-there-'it is"
This humbling moment in time, may save my life...and the lives of my passen
gers. I am sorry that others lost their lives in order to drive this home
for me.
Be safe my friends, I hope that I can meet each of you in person one day so
on.
Pete
RV-10 #40100
90% done, 90% to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: RV safety
Does anyone know of a simulator for the GRT system? It would be great to
practice on the ground, without burning avgas!
Thanks
Sam Marlow
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:
> Guys and Gals...you may want to read that manual very carefully before
> launching and trying to learn by flying...you'll spend too much heads
> down time...most systems have a simulator mode or stand alone software
> simulators...you might want to find a way to plug in your system on
> the ground and use the simulator there so that when you get airborn
> spending fuel you're not waiting time and altitude cranking dials and
> flipping screens learning...and please consider taking along a safety
> pilot when out with your big screens practicing...hopefully someone
> with TAA experience.
>
> P
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance
> <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850>.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt Kuperus <mattkuperus(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Tools wanted
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Hello all,
I've got an RV-8 quickbuild empennage on the way and am looking for used to
ols to buy. This is my first RV, so I don't have any tools to speak of. L
et me know if you're willing to part with any of yours. Thanks!
Matt
_________________________________________________________________
More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr
esh_instantaccess_042008
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV safety
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
There is apparently a way to interface it into MS Flight Simulator
called GRTBridge. I haven't done it but there's plenty of discussion on
the GRT Yahoo forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS/
Click on "Messages" and then search for "simulator" and pretty quick.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV safety
Does anyone know of a simulator for the GRT system? It would be great to
practice on the ground, without burning avgas!
Thanks
Sam Marlow
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:
> Guys and Gals...you may want to read that manual very carefully before
> launching and trying to learn by flying...you'll spend too much heads
> down time...most systems have a simulator mode or stand alone software
> simulators...you might want to find a way to plug in your system on
> the ground and use the simulator there so that when you get airborn
> spending fuel you're not waiting time and altitude cranking dials and
> flipping screens learning...and please consider taking along a safety
> pilot when out with your big screens practicing...hopefully someone
> with TAA experience.
>
> P
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance
> <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850>.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Recommendations for front air vents
Any recommendations for the front air vents?
Vans wants $145 for the aluminum ones
Aircraft Spruce has several varieties in the $175 price range.
Is this is the part of the building where you say to the dealer?
........ hit me . :-)
Lew: good job on the wheel pants. Thanks for the reference, but I just
added the pics. Our late friend, Mark Ritter showed me how to do it
when I looked at his plane a couple of months ago. And I will be
"displeased" if you get flying before I do.
Fred Williams
40515.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Humbling Experience
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Thanks for sharing the details of the HORRIBLE accident. I Know how
you feel. I have witnessed another RV crash site and it is a sad and
humbling experience.
Rob.
On Apr 14, 2008, at 11:56 AM, James, Peter [SD] wrote:
> Dear -10 Listers,
>
> I have debated for several days whether to hit the send button on
> this e-mail. I am not sure that it is my place to share this
> experience. I attended SNF this year and was pleased to look over
> all of the -10s that were in attendance. It is exciting to know
> that my plane will sit in the same row with these birds in the near
> future. But that=92s not the reason for this message=85..
>
> On the way home from SNF, we stopped in Georgia to look at a ground
> looped Skybolt that one of my fellow chapter members is considering
> purchasing. During the conversation with the salvage yard, I
> mentioned that I was building an RV-10=85and that unfortunately, one
> had gone down last week. The gent helping us stated that the plane
> was there=85. Right next to where we were standing. We wandered over
> and took a look=85
>
> I have never been humbled as much as I was at the Vietnam Memorial
> in Washington, D.C. While standing looking at the downed plane, I
> had a second moving experience -- similar to that at =93The Wall=94.
I
> recognized the structures. I saw the parts that I am so intimately
> familiar with. I saw the devastation that the passengers in this
> aircraft must have endured. I can only hope that they did not suffer.
>
> I am told that the field of debris was 600 feet long (2 football
> fields). The first sign of contact was fiberglass imbedded 4=94 into
> tree tops. The last item in the field was the engine. In all my
> days, I have never seen a propeller as curled as this one. I am
> not familiar with all of the details=85.. but I can tell you this=85..
> There were structures that had every rivet sheared off. I
> recognized parts that I thought would be impossible to destroy=85yet
> here they were in pieces. It was my familiarity with the parts and
> pieces that made this moment so significant. I cannot imagine what
> was happening at the time the airframe came to this state of being.
> I did not know the pilot or passenger. I wish that I could have met
> them. I am sure they were fine individuals, as all of the -10
> builders seem to be.
>
> Why am I writing this, you ask? I am not concerned about insurance
> or the future of our small community of builders. I am not
> concerned about bent sheet metal. I am writing this to encourage
> you, my airplane and aviation family, to think twice before entering
> into an area filled with Thunderstorms. I have no idea what
> happened, but I do know that this one stop=85 this 10 minutes in
> Georgia=85 will change the way that I =93pilot=94=85maybe for the rest
of my
> life. I have landed for weather before=85.and I will again. =46rom
> now on=85I will be much quicker to make a =93NO GO=94 decision. I
> encourage you to do the same. The boys from Lancair told harrowing
> tales of their trip down this year=85and how they had been at 400=92
AGL
> above an interstate to avoid towers. I was amazed that they
> survived their complete lack of judgment. We all can suffer from
> =93get-there-=91it is=94
>
> This humbling moment in time, may save my life=85and the lives of my
> passengers. I am sorry that others lost their lives in order to
> drive this home for me.
>
> Be safe my friends, I hope that I can meet each of you in person one
> day soon.
> Pete
>
> RV-10 #40100
> 90% done, 90% to go.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Recommendations for front air vents
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Stein has some for $90-100 per copy.
I don't recall if I sent out this link before but there are some pictures of
Dave Saylor's RV-10 here:
http://www.sinkrate.com/rv10/aircrafters-fiberglass-class/
that show some pictures of his completed wheel pants with a similar setup.
-Ben
40579.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
M.D.
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Recommendations for front air vents
Any recommendations for the front air vents?
Vans wants $145 for the aluminum ones
Aircraft Spruce has several varieties in the $175 price range.
Is this is the part of the building where you say to the dealer?
........ hit me . :-)
Lew: good job on the wheel pants. Thanks for the reference, but I just
added the pics. Our late friend, Mark Ritter showed me how to do it
when I looked at his plane a couple of months ago. And I will be
"displeased" if you get flying before I do.
Fred Williams
40515.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Subject: Recommendations for front air vents
Our illustrious Stein has a popular vent:
http://www.steinair.com/eyeballvents.htm
Looks like he is out of stock on some though. Stein, any idea when you will have
more?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams, M.D.
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Recommendations for front air vents
Any recommendations for the front air vents?
Vans wants $145 for the aluminum ones
Aircraft Spruce has several varieties in the $175 price range.
Is this is the part of the building where you say to the dealer?
........ hit me . :-)
Lew: good job on the wheel pants. Thanks for the reference, but I just
added the pics. Our late friend, Mark Ritter showed me how to do it
when I looked at his plane a couple of months ago. And I will be
"displeased" if you get flying before I do.
Fred Williams
40515.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for front air vents
Check out Stein, He's got the best prices on Vents, and they are TOP
quality. http://steinair.com/eyeballvents.htm
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>
>
> Any recommendations for the front air vents?
> Vans wants $145 for the aluminum ones
>
> Aircraft Spruce has several varieties in the $175 price range.
> Is this is the part of the building where you say to the dealer?
>
> ........ hit me . :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Recommendations for front air vents
Date: Apr 14, 2008
We should have more of the smaller ones back in stock within a couple weeks.
Lockheed called and bought every last one we had on the shelf so the stock
situation has been hard to keep up with on those smaller ones! We're trying
to keep up, but when someone just buys all of them in one fell swoop it
takes us a bit to catch back up.
Cheers,
Stein
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV Builder
>(Michael Sausen)
>Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:52 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Recommendations for front air vents
>
>
>
>
>Our illustrious Stein has a popular vent:
>
>http://www.steinair.com/eyeballvents.htm
>
>Looks like he is out of stock on some though. Stein, any idea
>when you will have more?
>
>Michael
>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for front air vents
Deems, Michael and Ben.
Thanks.
Will give Stein a day to get over Sun -n Fun and call in am to see when
some will be available. He'll probably see this later today. Now I can
tell my wife I saved $100 today.
Fred Williams
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Pix
Date: Apr 14, 2008
I have been flying lots, but finally got the wheel pants on so took some pix
to motivate you "yet to fly" guys.
Gary
40274 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pix
That's it, just rub it in !!!!!!!!!!! >:o
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
gary wrote:
>
> I have been flying lots, but finally got the wheel pants on so took
> some pix to motivate you yet to fly guys.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for front air vents
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Fred,
I got 4 from a salvage yard not a scratch on them, nice Aluminum for less
than $100 after some negotiations. So there are other avenues.
-Chris
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Recommendations for front air vents
>
>
> Deems, Michael and Ben.
> Thanks.
> Will give Stein a day to get over Sun -n Fun and call in am to see when
> some will be available. He'll probably see this later today. Now I can
> tell my wife I saved $100 today.
>
> Fred Williams
>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for front air vents
Having done it both ways now, I'd say ABSOLUTELY go with
the aluminum ones...the plastic ones suck.
Anyone want a hot deal on plastic vents? :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>
>
> Any recommendations for the front air vents?
> Vans wants $145 for the aluminum ones
>
> Aircraft Spruce has several varieties in the $175 price range.
> Is this is the part of the building where you say to the dealer?
>
> ........ hit me . :-)
>
>
> Lew: good job on the wheel pants. Thanks for the reference, but I just
> added the pics. Our late friend, Mark Ritter showed me how to do it
> when I looked at his plane a couple of months ago. And I will be
> "displeased" if you get flying before I do.
>
>
>
> Fred Williams
> 40515.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <john(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Subject: Cowling hinges
Date: Apr 14, 2008
I am pretty much finished building and am sending the plane to my painter in
pieces.
I am really having a hard time getting the cowling hinges to go in. I
believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of alignment during
paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to realign the hinges
and get hinge pins to go in more easily.
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com"jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Painting
Checked by AVG.
1:45 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AFS Systems .... and others
John W. Cox wrote:
> This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir or Dewey Conroy of
> Pacific Coast Avionics. They are probably both taking all kinds of
> orders and will address this after returning. Many inquiring minds
> want to know exactly these questions.
>
>
>
> I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely
> mounted and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with
> the Garmin G900X national debt decision. I am impressed with Robin's
> purchase but it is too rich for my blood. Synthetic Vision, HITS,
> Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability
> to go IFR. Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great
> start.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
OK, while we're on the subject of the stuff panels are made of, does
anyone have any comments on the Odessey???
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html
I'm looking at that for my panel. I spent a lot of time looking at it
at Sun-N-Fun. Tell me why you think it's a good or bad purchase!!!
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Cowling hinges
Date: Apr 14, 2008
John:
An old trick from years gone by:
Try beveling a piece of pin stock, chuck it in a battery powered drill
motor and move it in and out of the hindge at a low RPM.
Dick Sipp
RV10 N110DV 40065
----- Original Message -----
From: John Testement
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cowling hinges
I am pretty much finished building and am sending the plane to my
painter in pieces.
I am really having a hard time getting the cowling hinges to go in. I
believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of alignment during
paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to realign the
hinges and get hinge pins to go in more easily.
John Testement
jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Painting
Checked by AVG.
4/13/2008 1:45 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Snyder" <snyderbd888(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Andair problems
Date: Apr 14, 2008
I've had an ongoing problem with Andair and I thought that I'd give everyone
that was thinking about buying one of their products some insight into their
lack of responsiveness and customer service. I purchased a fuel valve for
my RV-10 before the valve extensions were available. At Oshkosh 2007 I
personally handed them the fuel valve I purchased to be exchanged for one
with a six inch extension. The receipt noted the serial number of the fuel
valve that I gave them along with a quote for the price of a valve with the
extension. I've been emailing every 2-3 weeks and I've called them a couple
of times but here I am almost 9 months later with no fuel valve despite
several promised shipping dates. I thought I was dealing with a reputable
company but my experience so far has been otherwise.
Bruce Snyder
40353
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Recommendations for front air vents
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
I ordered the one from Spruce, but the $56 is too small for the RV10 vent.
I had to return it. They were good on the refund.
Tim is correct on the metal ones. I bit the bullet and bought Van's vents for $145
(ouch). They do have a nice mounting flange that married up to the vent perfectly.
I am unimpressed by them at that price, but I tried the junks and Wentworth,
but could not get any. Stein's look good.
It just about kills me to think that I saw a bunch of them at a crash site a few
years ago and did not salvage them. They were in perfect condition. Good lesson.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176888#176888
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AFS Systems .... and others
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Linn,
There has been a lot of discussion on the list of how many different
EFIS systems this category can support before the industry consolidates
leaving some panels without product innovation or support including
replacement parts. I know nothing about Odyssey and their backing (and
do not want to disparage them) but It does seem that Dynon & GRT on the
(relatively) lower end of the price spectrum continue to develop &
improve their already impressive & tested products. When one has spent
so much time & effort on your aircraft it would be a shame to be stuck
with a white elephant panel. Imagine having placed dual BMA EFIS One's
in your plane because of all the reported features. When you eventually
do offer your plane for sale the panel MAY eliminate many potential
buyers. I look at a lot of RV-6/7/8's with amazing construction &
beautiful paint then I see their panel and I think... yeeeeh... never
mind.
I don't know the ultimate difference in pricing between the Odyssey,
Dynon & GRT offerings but they can't be THAT far apart when viewed in
your overall -10 budget. I always say an aircraft is the airframe
design, engine/prop & avionics. I think we all agree you have made an
outstanding airframe selection, any of the approved engines are an
excellent choice for the -10, all that is left is your panel.
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 400 Hours
RV-10 Sooner or Later, Probably Later
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems .... and others
John W. Cox wrote:
This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir or Dewey Conroy of
Pacific Coast Avionics. They are probably both taking all kinds of
orders and will address this after returning. Many inquiring minds want
to know exactly these questions.
I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely mounted
and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with the
Garmin G900X national debt decision. I am impressed with Robin's
purchase but it is too rich for my blood. Synthetic Vision, HITS,
Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to
go IFR. Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great
start.
John
OK, while we're on the subject of the stuff panels are made of, does
anyone have any comments on the Odessey???
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html
I'm looking at that for my panel. I spent a lot of time looking at it
at Sun-N-Fun. Tell me why you think it's a good or bad purchase!!!
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: AFS Systems .... and others
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Robin,
You raise an important consideration and one I gave serious weight to
myself in choosing an EFIS supplier. Personally though I think Dynon and
AFS have the greatest potential for longest term survival. Dynon because
of their market share due to being first to market and having the lowest
price points. Regarding AFS, you may not be aware that they have an OEM
relationship with Bendix/King Honeywell (the KFD 840 Primary Flight
Display), and also is the exclusive supplier of EFIS systems for the
Glasair TWT Sportsman program. This provides diversification and funding
for additional development and support resources that benefit those of
us with AFS branded products. As an AFS owner I am more familiar with
their situation than GRT, I hear great things from owners of their
products also, just didn't know if any of this was widely known.
I agree with those who think this market will likely experience some
consolidation as it matures, and that those still choosing their
avionics should consider this aspect as well.
Randy Lervold
RV-3B, www.rv3works.com
RV-8 www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Marks
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: AFS Systems .... and others
Linn,
There has been a lot of discussion on the list of how many different
EFIS systems this category can support before the industry consolidates
leaving some panels without product innovation or support including
replacement parts. I know nothing about Odyssey and their backing (and
do not want to disparage them) but It does seem that Dynon & GRT on the
(relatively) lower end of the price spectrum continue to develop &
improve their already impressive & tested products. When one has spent
so much time & effort on your aircraft it would be a shame to be stuck
with a white elephant panel. Imagine having placed dual BMA EFIS One's
in your plane because of all the reported features. When you eventually
do offer your plane for sale the panel MAY eliminate many potential
buyers. I look at a lot of RV-6/7/8's with amazing construction &
beautiful paint then I see their panel and I think. yeeeeh. never mind.
I don't know the ultimate difference in pricing between the Odyssey,
Dynon & GRT offerings but they can't be THAT far apart when viewed in
your overall -10 budget. I always say an aircraft is the airframe
design, engine/prop & avionics. I think we all agree you have made an
outstanding airframe selection, any of the approved engines are an
excellent choice for the -10, all that is left is your panel.
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 400 Hours
RV-10 Sooner or Later, Probably Later
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:42 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems .... and others
John W. Cox wrote:
This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir or Dewey Conroy of
Pacific Coast Avionics. They are probably both taking all kinds of
orders and will address this after returning. Many inquiring minds want
to know exactly these questions.
I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely
mounted and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with
the Garmin G900X national debt decision. I am impressed with Robin's
purchase but it is too rich for my blood. Synthetic Vision, HITS,
Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to
go IFR. Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great
start.
John
OK, while we're on the subject of the stuff panels are made of, does
anyone have any comments on the Odessey???
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html
I'm looking at that for my panel. I spent a lot of time looking at it
at Sun-N-Fun. Tell me why you think it's a good or bad purchase!!!
Linn
http://www.matronic - MATRONICS available via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com===
================http://www.matronics.com/
c
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pix
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Any difference in flying qualities with the wheel pants, Gary?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Wings (Slooooo Build)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pix
I have been flying lots, but finally got the wheel pants on so took some
pix to motivate you "yet to fly" guys.
Gary
40274 Flying
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Pix
Date: Apr 15, 2008
It is about 15K faster at the same power settings.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pix
Any difference in flying qualities with the wheel pants, Gary?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Wings (Slooooo Build)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pix
I have been flying lots, but finally got the wheel pants on so took some pix
to motivate you "yet to fly" guys.
Gary
40274 Flying
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Subject: OT: RRL First Exhibition Race
Should be pretty cool at OSH:
http://www.rocketracingleague.com/media/press_releases/2008_4_14_oshkosh.ht
ml
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: OT: it's all about the rivets
An interesting read for all of us rivet bangers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/science/15titanic.html?ex=1208923200&en=4b81a0af77edab6c&ei=5070&emc=eta1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: AFS Systems .... and others
Date: Apr 15, 2008
When we build our panels and select the instruments/vendors that are
available we are hoping that these products/companies well survive.
None-the-less we are well aware that there will be many changes in the
market in just a short time. In my RV-9A I installed a Navaid autopilot,
changed to a Trio, was in the planning stage of removing the electric
gyros
and other round gages looking at EFIS/EMS displays. Now in the RV-10 I
have
Dynon EFIS/EMS and TruTrak but I'm looking at the Dynon autopilot and I
know
Trio has a new one to present at Oshkosh. My point is because we can
make
major panel changes some of us will-and maybe more than once. My advice
is
to make it as easy as possible to remove and alter the panel, add more
wires, etc. I added rudder trim after completion but had already run a 5
wire cable into the tail cone and put the indicator on the panel 'just
in
case' so it was pretty easy to do. But what if it had required 6 wires
instead of 5 I had run? Make it as easy as possible to incorporate
change.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AFS Systems .... and others
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Randy,
I forgot to group AFS impressive products in my brief list
of solid companies. Like Jessie I apologize if I left a few personal
favorites out but that just proves the point, too many to list. Again I
feel we are very lucky to have all these options made available to us in
just a few short years but it comes at a price. My yet to fly G900X has
a fantastic new SVT option so my panel is already outdated and has yet
to clear 10' AGL. I read that the SVT upgrade for Diamond Aircraft
products will be $10K. They are obviously certified aircraft with
"certified" costs but I have yet to get an answer on what my unit will
cost for these improved features.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems .... and others
Robin,
You raise an important consideration and one I gave serious weight to
myself in choosing an EFIS supplier. Personally though I think Dynon and
AFS have the greatest potential for longest term survival. Dynon because
of their market share due to being first to market and having the lowest
price points. Regarding AFS, you may not be aware that they have an OEM
relationship with Bendix/King Honeywell (the KFD 840 Primary Flight
Display), and also is the exclusive supplier of EFIS systems for the
Glasair TWT Sportsman program. This provides diversification and funding
for additional development and support resources that benefit those of
us with AFS branded products. As an AFS owner I am more familiar with
their situation than GRT, I hear great things from owners of their
products also, just didn't know if any of this was widely known.
I agree with those who think this market will likely experience some
consolidation as it matures, and that those still choosing their
avionics should consider this aspect as well.
Randy Lervold
RV-3B, www.rv3works.com
RV-8 www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Marks <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: AFS Systems .... and others
Linn,
There has been a lot of discussion on the list of how many
different EFIS systems this category can support before the industry
consolidates leaving some panels without product innovation or support
including replacement parts. I know nothing about Odyssey and their
backing (and do not want to disparage them) but It does seem that Dynon
& GRT on the (relatively) lower end of the price spectrum continue to
develop & improve their already impressive & tested products. When one
has spent so much time & effort on your aircraft it would be a shame to
be stuck with a white elephant panel. Imagine having placed dual BMA
EFIS One's in your plane because of all the reported features. When you
eventually do offer your plane for sale the panel MAY eliminate many
potential buyers. I look at a lot of RV-6/7/8's with amazing
construction & beautiful paint then I see their panel and I think...
yeeeeh... never mind.
I don't know the ultimate difference in pricing between the
Odyssey, Dynon & GRT offerings but they can't be THAT far apart when
viewed in your overall -10 budget. I always say an aircraft is the
airframe design, engine/prop & avionics. I think we all agree you have
made an outstanding airframe selection, any of the approved engines are
an excellent choice for the -10, all that is left is your panel.
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 400 Hours
RV-10 Sooner or Later, Probably Later
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:42 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Systems .... and others
John W. Cox wrote:
This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir or Dewey
Conroy of Pacific Coast Avionics. They are probably both taking all
kinds of orders and will address this after returning. Many inquiring
minds want to know exactly these questions.
I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely
mounted and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with
the Garmin G900X national debt decision. I am impressed with Robin's
purchase but it is too rich for my blood. Synthetic Vision, HITS,
Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to
go IFR. Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great
start.
John
OK, while we're on the subject of the stuff panels are made of,
does anyone have any comments on the Odessey???
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html