RV10-Archive.digest.vol-di
May 03, 2008 - May 15, 2008
I, like Rick delayed putting the top on until I ran out of excuses not to
put it on. When I finally did rivet it on, all went very well, no gotcha's.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:43 PM
| Subject: | Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the |
fiberglass top on?
I'm looking for some advice on building sequence. I finished sections
thru 40 and now the fuselage top has been fitted but it seems to be in
my best interest to delay riveting it until a number of tasks are done.
It would also seems to be best to delay the upper forward fuselage
installation until the avionics are well underway. I have the finishing
kit inhouse and the 540 is on its way. I'm thinking that I need to
focus on the avionics and other cockpit systems so that I can put the
tops on.
Those of you that have been thru this, what is a good way to proceed?
What kind of flexibility do I have? What pitfalls should I avoid?
So much to do and so many options.
Hey Bob C - Congratulations! Can't wait to hear about the first flight.
Bill "with fiberglass dust everywhere" Watson
Durham NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)CombsFive.Com> |
| Subject: | Re: Overhead Console? |
I would gladly make a version 2008 Calendar. Would like to have some pictures
(or links) of planes that have not been used before.
Some rules I sort of made up.
(1) I would prefer have pictures without people in them.
(2) Flying is preferred, but will take a good ground shot.
(3) Only use a picture that has not been used on a previous calendar page.
(4) High resolution photos are preferred.
Point me to twelve or more pics and lets go for it.
Jim Combs
N312F
40192 - Finishing (Forever it seems!)
Transition Training - Alex De Dominicis (4 Hours / 17 landings - WAY FUN!) Still
could use a little more when the time comes
===========================================================
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: 2008/05/02 Fri PM 11:41:10 EDT
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Overhead Console?
I hope the official photographer is on standby to assist those of us
that are schedule and distance challenged.
Whatever happened to the RV-10 calendar effort? Is a 2008 version available?
John Cox wrote:
> The light is ON for the Pacific
> NW RV-10 builder shindig next Saturday. Yeh All should contact John
> Jessen if you can fly your Rv-10 into Dietz Airpark for the get
> together.
>
> John
>
>
>
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the |
fiberglass top on?
No, I was able to put the engine on without the top on and all fit later.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting
the fiberglass top on?
That's what I was hoping to hear. I really wanted to keep going with
the composite work - doors, cowl - since all my tools are dulled and
dust is everywhere despite aggressive vacuuming.
I'm assuming that the top parts all need to be cleco'd together in order
to hang the engine for a little structural integrity?
Bill
Rick Sked wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I fitted my cabin top and doors way back. Since then I have, put it on the
gear, hung the engine & prop, installed all the wiring, the panel, finished
the cowl/FWF/baffeling. Basically my -10 is complete without the top on.
The top/windows and the pants/faring are all that's left to do shy of
hanging the wings and final assembly..(yeah right) I found it so much easier
to climb in and out without the cabin top on the fuselage. I'm afraid as
soon as the top is on I'll see that bright light at the end of the tunnel
and really start to think I'm done.
>
> Rick Sked
> 40185
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> To: "RV10-List Digest Server"
> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2008 6:43:24 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RV10-List: Building Sequence - how long can I delay riveting the
fiberglass top on?
>
>
> I'm looking for some advice on building sequence. I finished sections
> thru 40 and now the fuselage top has been fitted but it seems to be in
> my best interest to delay riveting it until a number of tasks are done.
> It would also seems to be best to delay the upper forward fuselage
> installation until the avionics are well underway. I have the finishing
> kit inhouse and the 540 is on its way. I'm thinking that I need to
> focus on the avionics and other cockpit systems so that I can put the
> tops on.
>
> Those of you that have been thru this, what is a good way to proceed?
> What kind of flexibility do I have? What pitfalls should I avoid?
>
> So much to do and so many options.
>
> Hey Bob C - Congratulations! Can't wait to hear about the first flight.
>
> Bill "with fiberglass dust everywhere" Watson
> Durham NC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV10 Empennage for sale |
320247792628
I have an untouched Vans RV10 empennage kit for sale. I received it about 6
weeks ago, opened the crate and removed packing to inventory all the parts.
Other than removing packing, nothing was touched. All parts, parts bags,
manual, prints, etc are brand new as received from Vans. I would like to
sell it pick up only in Blaine, MN (Minneapolis northern suburb) so I don't
have to re-pack all the foam pieces. I do have the original shipping crate
and the parts were carefully put back to avoid any damage. I paid $3500 for
the kit plus it includes an complete extra set of plans (I think I paid
another $50 for this but I can't be sure). I'm selling it due to having to
purchase my partner out of my other aircraft (Baron). It is listed on eBay
(item #320247792628) with a starting bid of $2000 and a buy it now at
$3,000.
Gary
gjstrongNOSPAMcomcast.net - replace NOSPAM with @
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge you $800
to repair it.
If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to replace
it.
So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather than having
a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat rate. On
the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it eventually works out
and I can think of much worse company pricing policies. Consider that for $800
they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong with the unit,
update the OS software and database before they return it you --this is not a
bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair price schedule? In 1999
when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was $600.
Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less than the
$800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be accomplished
by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer replace the sticking buttons
on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware of the flat rate
repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can perform is not a very good
Garmin dealer.
In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin arrogance."
I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin arrogance? Would
this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the Garmin
rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The Garmin rep
replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away mumbling something
about them not being responsive to customers. This guy was blaming Garmin
for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this is also an example of
Garmin arrogance.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To:
>
> A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> last a while.
>
> On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
>
> > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> >
> > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> >
> > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> >
> > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > policy.
> >
> > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > through my rear end.
> >
> > Anh
> > N591VU-flying
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - Navaid AP-1 Autopilot - New! |
Fellow Homebuilders,
I have decided to go with a two-axis auto pilot in my RV-4 project
and am selling my single-axis Navid AP-1. This is a brand new unit
with all of accessories, manual, analog Loran/GPS input, and S-2
servo. It has never been installed. No scratches.
Current price from Navaid is $1300 US. I will sell for $1100 plus
shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First
come, first served.
Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are
interested. Below is a picture of the actual unit and included accessories.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
Emacs!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hilger" <ninepapa(at)bendbroadband.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's support to international customers |
Ron
Did you try contacting IPS directly?
Their E-mail is intustrialinfo(at)ipscorp.com
Maybe they can ship one direct to you, or direct to the dealer with your
name on the shipment.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's support to international customers
> Sorry guys, time for a bit of a whinge. Vans credibility has just taken a
serious nose dive for this builder.
>
> Weldon 10 is not readily available in Australia and Vans will not deliver
it other than sea freight (3 month delay for $12 worth of stuff!!!). The
supplier here insists on providing adhesive that is significantly past its
shelf life (ie more than 2yrs). I have been trying to get some useable
Weldon for the past 3 months without success. Vans did advise that they
hoped to have a solution by end of April. Here is their response to my
query on what was happening:
>
> "Obviously we have no control over IPS or their distributors. We can
become
> certified for shipping Hazmat, but this requires sending staff on an
> expensive 3 day course.
>
> We are making inquiries to see if we can ship the material through a third
> party rather than becoming Hazmat certified here for this one product.
> However it is done, minimum cost for shipping any quantity of the adhesive
> would be about $200.
>
> The reason we don't have an alternative is because experts in the field
> advised us that this is the best adhesive to use. It therefore seems
> inadvisable for us to research, or to recommend that you use, the "not
quite
> so good" alternatives.
>
> Several RV-10s have been finished in Australia, so this is not an
> insurmountable problem, though I am not sure how they solved the issue.
> As I said before, we are able to ship the adhesive in with the kits. If
you have
> all your kits we can conceivably ship this in someone else's kit, so if
you
> know of someone near you ordering a kit let us know. As of right now, that
is
> all we can do.
>
> Gus"
>
> The majority of RV-10s that were completed in Australia have used Weld-on
supplied by Vans BEFORE they discovered it was Hazmat. Their reluctance to
recommend an alternative windows installation method, when they cannot
provide their specified product is very disappointing. My -10 is virtually
finished with a planned first flight date of July. Windscreen installation
and fairing is the only job left and I have no more kits to freight in.
>
> So, for those international builders that may have a problem with getting
Weld-On 10 - expect ZERO support from Vans.
>
> For me, it's back to the archives to find an alternative (but not Vans
approved) way of installing the windscreen.
>
> Ron
> -187 (and reeeeally pi$$ed off)
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
William,
Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin 430's
in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you have
a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving map
products in one aircraft.
And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
competition.
Steve Roberts
Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
you $800 to repair it.
If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
replace it.
So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather than
having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it eventually
works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies. Consider
that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it you
--this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair price
schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was $600.
Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer replace
the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can perform
is not a very good Garmin dealer.
In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To:
>
> A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> last a while.
>
> On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
>
> > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> >
> > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> >
> > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> >
> > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > policy.
> >
> > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > through my rear end.
> >
> > Anh
> > N591VU-flying
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Overhead Console? |
Dave's is just a mini console for lights. It doesn't traverse the length of the
cockpit. It wouldn't be a good choice for those of us wanting to route air
through a naca port.
>
> From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
> Date: 2008/05/03 Sat AM 07:18:26 EST
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Overhead Console?
>
>
> I'm not that far along yet, but I know Dave Saylor at Aircrafters LLC in Watsonville,
CA, has advertised an overhead console in Kitplanes.
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180867#180867
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Steve,
Sounds like you are having issue with the wrong company. You do realize that it
is Jeppesen that is charging you $60 per month for that database updates and
not Garmin right? Garmin WILL sell you the database updates but they are just
reselling the Jeppesen data which you can get yourself directly from Jeppesen.
Also, Jeppessen will NOT charge you TWICE as much for a dual subscription.
My dual annual WAAS subscription for the 430 is only $105 more than the single
unit subscription. I think you should take a look at the Jeppesen subscription
plan offerings.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To:
>
>
> William,
>
> Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin 430's
> in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you have
> a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving map
> products in one aircraft.
>
> And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> competition.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> you $800 to repair it.
> If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> replace it.
>
> So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather than
> having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it eventually
> works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies. Consider
> that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it you
> --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair price
> schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was $600.
>
> Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer replace
> the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can perform
> is not a very good Garmin dealer.
>
> In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
>
> I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > X-Rcpt-To:
> >
> > A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> > last a while.
> >
> > On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
> >
> > > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> > >
> > > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> > >
> > > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> > >
> > > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > > policy.
> > >
> > > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > > through my rear end.
> > >
> > > Anh
> > > N591VU-flying
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van's support to international customers |
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
John,
Yes, I have had a few emails with IPS and they have been quite responsive.
At the moment, there does not seem to be ANY 'in life' Weld On in Australi
a and IPS is supplying to the primary distributor (Mulford). But supply is
still likely to be several weeks/months away.
To all who responded with offers and recommendations both on and off list -
thank you! The camaraderie and support from the list is amazing. I have
been aware of previous discussion about using alternate techniques (SilPruf
, Epoxy/flox, 3M 2216), and will now go down one of those paths.
thanks again guys
cheers,
Ron (not quite so ticked off any more)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of John Hilger
Sent: Sun 5/4/2008 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's support to international customers
Ron
Did you try contacting IPS directly?
Their E-mail is intustrialinfo(at)ipscorp.com
Maybe they can ship one direct to you, or direct to the dealer with your
name on the shipment.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's support to international customers
> Sorry guys, time for a bit of a whinge. Vans credibility has just taken a
serious nose dive for this builder.
>
> Weldon 10 is not readily available in Australia and Vans will not deliver
it other than sea freight (3 month delay for $12 worth of stuff!!!). The
supplier here insists on providing adhesive that is significantly past its
shelf life (ie more than 2yrs). I have been trying to get some useable
Weldon for the past 3 months without success. Vans did advise that they
hoped to have a solution by end of April. Here is their response to my
query on what was happening:
>
> "Obviously we have no control over IPS or their distributors. We can
become
> certified for shipping Hazmat, but this requires sending staff on an
> expensive 3 day course.
>
> We are making inquiries to see if we can ship the material through a third
> party rather than becoming Hazmat certified here for this one product.
> However it is done, minimum cost for shipping any quantity of the adhesive
> would be about $200.
>
> The reason we don't have an alternative is because experts in the field
> advised us that this is the best adhesive to use. It therefore seems
> inadvisable for us to research, or to recommend that you use, the "not
quite
> so good" alternatives.
>
> Several RV-10s have been finished in Australia, so this is not an
> insurmountable problem, though I am not sure how they solved the issue.
> As I said before, we are able to ship the adhesive in with the kits. If
you have
> all your kits we can conceivably ship this in someone else's kit, so if
you
> know of someone near you ordering a kit let us know. As of right now, that
is
> all we can do.
>
> Gus"
>
> The majority of RV-10s that were completed in Australia have used Weld-on
supplied by Vans BEFORE they discovered it was Hazmat. Their reluctance to
recommend an alternative windows installation method, when they cannot
provide their specified product is very disappointing. My -10 is virtually
finished with a planned first flight date of July. Windscreen installation
and fairing is the only job left and I have no more kits to freight in.
>
> So, for those international builders that may have a problem with getting
Weld-On 10 - expect ZERO support from Vans.
>
> For me, it's back to the archives to find an alternative (but not Vans
approved) way of installing the windscreen.
>
> Ron
> -187 (and reeeeally pi$$ed off)
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
William,
I knew the database was from Jeppessen, but not that I could buy the
subscriptions directly. I will switch at renewal. Many thanks.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
Steve,
Sounds like you are having issue with the wrong company. You do realize
that it is Jeppesen that is charging you $60 per month for that database
updates and not Garmin right? Garmin WILL sell you the database updates but
they are just reselling the Jeppesen data which you can get yourself
directly from Jeppesen. Also, Jeppessen will NOT charge you TWICE as much
for a dual subscription. My dual annual WAAS subscription for the 430 is
only $105 more than the single unit subscription. I think you should take a
look at the Jeppesen subscription plan offerings.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To:
>
>
> William,
>
> Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin
430's
> in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you
have
> a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving
map
> products in one aircraft.
>
> And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> competition.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> you $800 to repair it.
> If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> replace it.
>
> So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather
than
> having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it
eventually
> works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies.
Consider
> that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it
you
> --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair
price
> schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was
$600.
>
> Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer
replace
> the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can
perform
> is not a very good Garmin dealer.
>
> In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
>
> I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > X-Rcpt-To:
> >
> > A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> > last a while.
> >
> > On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
> >
> > > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> > >
> > > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> > >
> > > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> > >
> > > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > > policy.
> > >
> > > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > > through my rear end.
> > >
> > > Anh
> > > N591VU-flying
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pascal" <pascal(at)rv10builder.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Repair - poor Customer support?? |
Although I think $800 for a minor job is poor support (they should have done
it for S&H and gained a happy customer in return) I disagree with the
argument of license per unit cost. It would be like telling a software
manufacturer that I have three computers how come I need to pay to get the
latest version three times.. In this case that is business. With that said I
was upset when I decided to upgrade to a new computer because my Flight Sim
was too slow and the new computer would resolve the performance that the
game required. The software was "license per unit" so I needed to buy a new
"identical" software package for the new computer.. I called the company and
guess what?? they gave me a new license for the new computer.. for free..
understanding my situation..I BTW deletedthe software off the old computer
so technically all I did was move the software not run it concurrently.
Garmin needs to know the difference between a light bulb and a screen, $800
is poor customer service..
Now if AFS could find another option than the 430W I would be a happy
camper, but as I mentioned in the past.. where the competition for this
unit??
Sure Magellan and Tom Tom can be competition for the land based GPS.. but
there's nothing for the aviation units..
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
> William,
>
> Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin
> 430's
> in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you
> have
> a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving
> map
> products in one aircraft.
>
> And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> competition.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> you $800 to repair it.
> If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> replace it.
>
> So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather
> than
> having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it
> eventually
> works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies.
> Consider
> that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it
> you
> --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair
> price
> schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was
> $600.
>
> Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer
> replace
> the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can
> perform
> is not a very good Garmin dealer.
>
> In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
>
> I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>> X-Rcpt-To:
>>
>> A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
>> last a while.
>>
>> On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
>>
>> > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
>> > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
>> > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
>> >
>> > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
>> > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
>> > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
>> > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
>> > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
>> > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
>> > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
>> > expired about 7 months after first flight.
>> >
>> > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
>> > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
>> > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
>> > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
>> > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
>> > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
>> > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
>> > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
>> > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
>> > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
>> > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
>> > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
>> > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
>> > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
>> >
>> > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
>> > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
>> > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
>> > policy.
>> >
>> > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
>> > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
>> > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
>> > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
>> > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
>> > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
>> > through my rear end.
>> >
>> > Anh
>> > N591VU-flying
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin Repair - Customer Beware |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
The single unit East/Central WAAS subscription (DGRW99) is $290 per year.
The dual unit East/Central WAAS subscription(DGRW89) is $395 per year.
The single unit full USA WAAS subscription(DGW300) is $350 per year.
The dual unit full USA WAAS subscription(DGW800) is $450 per year.
All these prices are for the 400/500 series with the Skybound Internet updates.
I have the DGRW89 subscription since I travel mostly in the eastern states.
If I do decide to travel in the western US, I can upgrade to the DGW800 and then
return to the DGRW89. They will credit me for the remaining months on my
old subscription and charge me for the full DGW800 when I upgrade, but then when
I downgrade, they will again credit me for the months remaining on the DGW800
and charge the DGRW89 anew. They make it easy to change subscription plans
at any time. Still high for warmed over government data, but way less than $60
per month.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> X-Rcpt-To:
>
>
> William,
>
> I knew the database was from Jeppessen, but not that I could buy the
> subscriptions directly. I will switch at renewal. Many thanks.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 7:19 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Sounds like you are having issue with the wrong company. You do realize
> that it is Jeppesen that is charging you $60 per month for that database
> updates and not Garmin right? Garmin WILL sell you the database updates but
> they are just reselling the Jeppesen data which you can get yourself
> directly from Jeppesen. Also, Jeppessen will NOT charge you TWICE as much
> for a dual subscription. My dual annual WAAS subscription for the 430 is
> only $105 more than the single unit subscription. I think you should take a
> look at the Jeppesen subscription plan offerings.
>
> William
> http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > X-Rcpt-To:
> >
> >
> > William,
> >
> > Here is another example of Garmin's pricing power. I have dual Garmin
> 430's
> > in my Mooney. Even though the databases are identical, Garmin charges 2x
> > for the monthly updates, about $60 per month, and there is no way to get
> > around it if you want the units to crossfill the flight plans. If you
> have
> > a 496 for terrain and weather, as I do, you need another subscription to
> > keep that current. There is no discount for having three Garmin moving
> map
> > products in one aircraft.
> >
> > And it will get worse. Even though Garmin is the gold standard for
> > aviation, marine, auto and hiking GPS navigation, their stock is down 70%
> > from recent highs due to, of all things, reduced margins from fierce
> > competition.
> >
> > Steve Roberts
> > Still lurking and waiting on a suitable place to build my RV-10
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:22 PM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Repair - Customer Beware
> >
> >
> > If you you shattered shattered the screen on your 430, Garmin will charge
> > you $800 to repair it.
> > If you need Garmin to replace a light bulb, they will charge you $800 to
> > replace it.
> >
> > So how is this an example of "fat and happy?" They simply chose rather
> than
> > having a complicated schedule with varying prices to have a simple flat
> > rate. On the whole, I think the consumer ultimately benefits, it
> eventually
> > works out and I can think of much worse company pricing policies.
> Consider
> > that for $800 they repair whatever you reported, whatever THEY find wrong
> > with the unit, update the OS software and database before they return it
> you
> > --this is not a bad deal IMHO. Anyone familiar with the Narco repair
> price
> > schedule? In 1999 when I had my 430 installed, the flat rate fee was
> $600.
> >
> > Dealers can however perform some replacement tasks for considerable less
> > than the $800. The $800 flat rate is for MAJOR repairs that cannot be
> > accomplished by the dealer. Prior to my "W" upgrade, I had a dealer
> replace
> > the sticking buttons on my 430 for about $120. A dealer that is not aware
> > of the flat rate repair schedule or the list of tasks that they can
> perform
> > is not a very good Garmin dealer.
> >
> > In a previous thread there were comments from a few folks on "Garmin
> > arrogance." I'm curious and I would like to here some examples of Garmin
> > arrogance? Would this be an example of Garmin arrogance?
> >
> > I once stood behind someone at a Garmin booth where a gentleman asked the
> > Garmin rep if they were planning to come out with an IFR portable. The
> > Garmin rep replied "No" with no further explanation. The guy walked away
> > mumbling something about them not being responsive to customers. This guy
> > was blaming Garmin for something under the control of the FAA. Maybe this
> > is also an example of Garmin arrogance.
> >
> > William
> > http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > > X-Rcpt-To:
> > >
> > > A good example of Garmin getting fat and happy. I'll pray for mine to
> > > last a while.
> > >
> > > On May 2, 2008, at 6:22 PM, DejaVu wrote:
> > >
> > > > Short story: if Garmin replaces a light bulb in your unit, it's
> > > > $800. I was totally unaware but you can find the verbage in their
> > > > warranty online. I was expecting someone to call first.
> > > >
> > > > Long story: Lost the transmitter on my comm radio on the 430 on the
> > > > way back from SNF, reception was fine. Trouble shooting showed
> > > > transmitter output was a whopping 1.5W and very noisy after the
> > > > initial 3 second ouput of 37W. You can hear something like a relay
> > > > within the unit kicking in right prior to going from 37W to 1.5W.
> > > > Great, the radio is protected. Something simple is wrong. My 430
> > > > has 130hrs on it. 2-year warranty started on purchase date so that
> > > > expired about 7 months after first flight.
> > > >
> > > > Sent the unit to Garmin through a dealer (can't send it directly to
> > > > them). Turn around time was quick - confirmed my suspecion that it
> > > > was a simple fix. I was impressed. The damage - $875. My eye
> > > > balls almost jumped out of their sockets. After researching a bit I
> > > > realized that I'm not the first unhappy customer. Garmin has a flat
> > > > repair rate of $800 for the 430, including shipping (thank
> > > > goodness!! I wonder why my bill was $875?). They guarantee complete
> > > > overhaul if they so deem the unit needs it. This includes cosmetics
> > > > like worn out buttons or anything they see that's not up to par.
> > > > Quote from the Service Report "Confirmed problem. Repaired the COMM
> > > > board to correct the discrepancy. Updated software." Garmin's
> > > > repair records does not contain any more details than this. When
> > > > asked if cosmetic works were done to my unit, the answer.... no. I
> > > > would've been surprised if there was any on such a low time unit.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds to me that Garmin has a good marketing strategy to keep all
> > > > units in service at tip top overhauled shape at the expense of the
> > > > customers. By the way, the dealer wasn't aware of this flat rate
> > > > policy.
> > > >
> > > > So what's the chance of something majorly wrong with my 430 would
> > > > happen to get a good $800 deal? Considering the cost of a new unit,
> > > > a quick statistical calculation +/- a bunch% error says that you'll
> > > > never make out ahead with this deal. Google what others have to say
> > > > regarding Garmin's customer support and see for yourself. I don't
> > > > mind supporting a good product but this feels like a log going
> > > > through my rear end.
> > > >
> > > > Anh
> > > > N591VU-flying
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Reading in Cruise |
I was talking to David McNeill on the phone about elevated CHT temps on
cylinders 1 and 2 yesterday and mentioned that I had that problem also and
was considering reducing the size of the air dams on those cylinders to
improve temps. I told him I would post some instrument readings I had
recorded about 2 weeks ago. Engine is IO-540 with 10:1 comp, 1 Lightspeed,
Bendix servo, AeroComposites 3 blade prop.
Altitude: 2000 ft. OAT: 75F MP: 21" RPM: 2100 IAS: 128kt TAS: 140kt
Leaned to 10.1 gph. Oil Temp: 203F
GHT 374 385 340 337 369 360
EGT 1398 1386 1382 1352 1390 1403
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_1177 |
I pulled the cowl after 14 hours and find an exhaust stain below the slip
joint on the three in one. Anybody else see this? The gray spot is a drip of
the anti-seize used to connect the exhaust pipes. No CO in the cabin ; my
meter confirms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Overhead console head room |
Before installing my cabin top, I am trying to decide if I need an
overhead console, and what the impact on my headroom will be. I am only
considering the console for the front seat gaspers, as lights can be
installed without one. I am 6' 4'', and am concerned about the loss of
headroom from a console. I sat in a friends 10 that had a full width
console, and had a headroom issue. If I only brought a duct forward to
route air, could that 3inch wide, or so, duct up the middle of the
cabin top cause a headroom issue as well? I don't like my headset
bumping on anything! A real pet peeve. Has anyone ducted air up from the
front, possibly from substituting the steel cabin support bar with a
larger diameter, thinner wall tube, and running the air thru that? How
about enclosing the existing support with a fiberglass duct? Maybe mount
the mag compass in there and really look custom.
The real question is, do you truly need the additional air? My RV8
has only the panel mounted air vent, and it is more than adequate, once
airborne, and I fly out of Las Vegas. Of course on the 8, you slide the
canopy back for taxi airflow, an option that isn't available in the 10.
How about taxing with the doors slightly open? Are the doors too fragile
for that option? My friend with the console says that the gaspers leak
air , and that's a nuisance in the winter, but he feels the overhead
gaspers will be a blessing in the summer, but as yet unknown. Would an
inline fan, when turned off, restrict the ram pressure enough to
prevent unwanted leakage? A shutoff valve would work, but that's
complexity and weight that gains you little.
Opinions or experiences anyone?
Chris Hukill
tailcone attached
(hanger sure got smaller)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_1177 |
David, do you think that could just be the heat doing that?
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:13 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
I pulled the cowl after 14 hours and find an exhaust stain below the slip
joint on the three in one. Anybody else see this? The gray spot is a drip of
the anti-seize used to connect the exhaust pipes. No CO in the cabin ; my
meter confirms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Reading in Cruise |
With your compression higher than my stock 8.5:1 some numbers may not compare but
you are getting fairly good efficiency at 15.9 smpg. After I added a miles
per gallon metric to my display and with some patience I now get 17.3 (or so)
smpg at 180-185 smph with the mixture set to peak. I was surprised that you are
doing this well with the 10:1 compression.
On the CHT readings: It seems for my engine the high CHT's settled down at 100-125
engine hours, also, I started cutting down the dams about this time. Working
with two variables created a moving target. Now all my CHT's are within 25
degrees F. I think the goal would be to adjust the dam until the difference
between cyl 1 & 3 is less than 25 degrees F and the same for cyl 2 & 4. Cyl 5
& 6 will get whatever cooling remains. If you eliminate the dams then on decent
the front cylinders will cool very quickly.
The best advice I can give is make the dams easy to change so its convenient
to modify them often. On my first dam change I drilled out the two rivets and
replaced them with Tinnermans. The screw holes were tweaked such that the screw
would slip between the fins. This allows the dam to be easily removed without
touching the cowl.
As Ken Kruger told me - "sneak up on it". This was good advice.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
Albert Gardner wrote:
I was talking to David McNeill on the phone about elevated CHT
temps on cylinders 1 and 2 yesterday and mentioned that I had that problem also
and was considering reducing the size of the air dams on those cylinders to
improve temps. I told him I would post some instrument readings I had recorded
about 2 weeks ago. Engine is IO-540 with 10:1 comp, 1 Lightspeed, Bendix servo,
AeroComposites 3 blade prop.
Altitude: 2000 ft. OAT: 75F MP: 21 RPM: 2100 IAS: 128kt TAS: 140kt Leaned
to 10.1 gph. Oil Temp: 203F
GHT 374 385 340 337 369 360
EGT 1398 1386 1382 1352 1390 1403
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_1177 |
It could be the heat but the clearance at the three in one is at least 2
inches from the cowl. Perhaps the problem occurs on the ground ; I would
think that in flight there is enough air movement to prevent it from getting
really hot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
David, do you think that could just be the heat doing that?
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:13 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
I pulled the cowl after 14 hours and find an exhaust stain below the slip
joint on the three in one. Anybody else see this? The gray spot is a drip of
the anti-seize used to connect the exhaust pipes. No CO in the cabin ; my
meter confirms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: IMG_1177 |
Yep, a known issue since way back when Randy first flew. Randy
let us know that the cowl would heat and discolor, so he stuck
on some self-stick aluminum from Vans. I decided from day one
to do the whole lower cowl, so I brushed on a layer of epoxy
to seal it, and then covered the whole thing with aluminum.
It wipes off nice that way too.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270023.html
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270025.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
>
> I pulled the cowl after 14 hours and find an exhaust stain below the slip
> joint on the three in one. Anybody else see this? The gray spot is a drip of
> the anti-seize used to connect the exhaust pipes. No CO in the cabin ; my
> meter confirms.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: IMG_1177 |
And less drag!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
>
> Yep, a known issue since way back when Randy first flew. Randy
> let us know that the cowl would heat and discolor, so he stuck
> on some self-stick aluminum from Vans. I decided from day one
> to do the whole lower cowl, so I brushed on a layer of epoxy
> to seal it, and then covered the whole thing with aluminum.
> It wipes off nice that way too.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270023.html
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270025.html
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>> I pulled the cowl after 14 hours and find an exhaust stain below the
>> slip
>> joint on the three in one. Anybody else see this? The gray spot is a drip
>> of
>> the anti-seize used to connect the exhaust pipes. No CO in the cabin ; my
>> meter confirms.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pascal" <pascal(at)rv10builder.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: IMG_1177 |
Any idea how hot it is actually getting to discolor it? wonder what type of
long term damage this could cause..
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
>
> Yep, a known issue since way back when Randy first flew. Randy
> let us know that the cowl would heat and discolor, so he stuck
> on some self-stick aluminum from Vans. I decided from day one
> to do the whole lower cowl, so I brushed on a layer of epoxy
> to seal it, and then covered the whole thing with aluminum.
> It wipes off nice that way too.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270023.html
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270025.html
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>> I pulled the cowl after 14 hours and find an exhaust stain below the
>> slip
>> joint on the three in one. Anybody else see this? The gray spot is a drip
>> of
>> the anti-seize used to connect the exhaust pipes. No CO in the cabin ; my
>> meter confirms.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Window Adhesive (again) |
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
Hi all,
Did some research over the weekend on replacements for Weld-on. Here
are some numbers I found on bond strength to acrylic:
WeldOn 10: 2700psi
SilPruf: 246 psi
Scotch Weld 2216 B/A: 1100 psi (shear) 500 psi tension (I think)
FE6026: dunno
Epoxy/flox: dunno
Sikaflex: dunno, but requires a minimum 3/16" bed
SilPruf is not recommended for structural applications and seems to be
more a sealant. And it appears to have only 10% the bond strength of
Weldon. Maybe I have dodgy data and am happy to be corrected by the
fans. Given the bond strength of the Weld On, it seems to me that the
windows become an integral part of the cabin and are therefore
structural. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable behind Silpruf,
especially for the windshield (but of course that is just my view based
on the data I have so far).
I just can't find any tech data on the FE6026 that Jesse recommends and
have no clue what the bond strength of epoxy/flox would be. I'm really
keen to get some hard quantitative data before I make a decision. Can
anyone fill in the gaps (whoops bad unintended pun)??
Cheers,
Ron
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
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however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Bill of Sale items |
The Tennessee Dept. of Revenue seems to have noticed that I have a new airplane
registered in the state, and has sent me a bunch of forms to fill out that don't
have much at all to do with building a kitplane. A couple of items they want
are the Aircraft Manufacturer & Model from the Bill of Sale, and the value
listed in the box that says "For and in consideration of $ "
I sent my original Bill of Sale from Vans into the FAA to get the registration,
and can't seem to find the second copy that Barbara Billman (Vans office mgr)
sent from Vans. Does anybody happen to have an RV-10 Bill of Sale from Vans
handy to let me know what those values were as filled in by Van's? I seem to
remember the "consideration" was not the actual $$ paid for all of the kits 'n
stuff.
Thanks,
-Dan Masys
N104LD flying 97 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_1177 |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
350 degrees will begin to yellow the gel coat and white topcoat. 425
will turn it orange and begin to breakdown the honeycomb. At brown, the
honeycomb becomes brittle internally. The foil is a great idea since
once it is broken down it is never as strong as intended originally.
A review of Deems pictures shows an interesting and easy to make heat
shield on the exhaust stacks.
The plastic boys rave on Dupont Ztec.
John Cox
#40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
Any idea how hot it is actually getting to discolor it? wonder what type
of
long term damage this could cause..
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
>
> Yep, a known issue since way back when Randy first flew. Randy
> let us know that the cowl would heat and discolor, so he stuck
> on some self-stick aluminum from Vans. I decided from day one
> to do the whole lower cowl, so I brushed on a layer of epoxy
> to seal it, and then covered the whole thing with aluminum.
> It wipes off nice that way too.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270023.html
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20060129/RV200601270025.html
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>> I pulled the cowl after 14 hours and find an exhaust stain below
the
>> slip
>> joint on the three in one. Anybody else see this? The gray spot is a
drip
>> of
>> the anti-seize used to connect the exhaust pipes. No CO in the cabin
; my
>> meter confirms.
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Concur on the stainless braided Teflon lines. Initially replaced the
manufacturers suggested nylon lines on the Glastar. When confronted with the
Vans plans for the soft aluminum hard lines, immediately switched to the
Teflon lines. No need to let 5606 anywhere near a hot brake. The resulting
fire may cost an airplane. I secured mine with three Adel clamps. No problem
flying with the leg fairings off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: IMG_1177 |
Please tell us a little about it, John!
On May 4, 2008, at 6:01 PM, John Cox wrote:
> The plastic boys rave on Dupont Ztec.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
David, did you make a big 270=B0 loop with your Teflon lines like Tim
did recently, or did you just make a big 90=B0 loop?
What is the need for the big loop with flexible lines? - I don't say
it's not necessary, I just don't understand.
John
40458
On May 4, 2008, at 6:04 PM, David McNeill wrote:
> Concur on the stainless braided Teflon lines. Initially replaced
> the manufacturers suggested nylon lines on the Glastar. When
> confronted with the Vans plans for the soft aluminum hard lines,
> immediately switched to the Teflon lines. No need to let 5606
> anywhere near a hot brake. The resulting fire may cost an airplane.
> I secured mine with three Adel clamps. No problem flying with the
> leg fairings off.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
It's=C2-to allow you enough excess line to remove the caliper without hav
ing to disconnect the brake line.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ackerman" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2008 6:53:03 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake lines
David, did you make a big 270=C2=B0 loop with your Teflon lines like Tim di
d recently, or did you just make a big 90=C2=B0 loop?
What is the need for the big loop with flexible lines? - I don't say it's n
ot necessary, I just don't understand.
John=C2-
40458
On May 4, 2008, at 6:04 PM, David McNeill wrote:
Concur on =C2-the stainless braided Teflon lines. Initially replaced the
manufacturers suggested nylon lines on the Glastar. When confronted with th
e Vans plans for the soft aluminum hard lines, immediately switched to the
Teflon lines. No need to let 5606 anywhere near a hot brake. The resulting
fire may cost an airplane. I secured mine with three Adel=C2-clamps. No p
roblem flying with the leg fairings off. href="http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="ht
tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.m
atronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dogsbark(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Sealing compound |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines |
Hey Tim,
Great write-up. As usual your tips and tricks are priceless to this
group. A question about those brake lines. Since the braided lines are
flexible is the loop around to the caliper still necessary? Can you
share the p/n from Bonaco?
Thanks!
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
RV-10 N104BS
25.3 into phase 1
Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> It's been while since I've done any maintenance worth
> talking about, but this weekend I did have some interesting
> stuff with good results.
>
> I know we've talked about wheel shimmy in the past, and
> how getting the nosewheel all perfect is part of a fix for
> some people. I do believe though that the mains on the
> -10 have the tendency to "walk" back and forth, and that this
> is probably a cause of shimmy for some people who *think* they
> have nose shimmy. We've talked about balancing tires and
> how some people had good results...but this weekend I finally
> got to put on my first new set of tires at 330 hours and
> I balanced them out. Turns out I now believe balancing is
> key.
>
> I also replaced my brake lines from fuselage to wheel with
> some great braided teflon ones. Most people have heard
> of builders with cracked lines around that lower loop,
> but I know that at least one person had a nearly severed
> line up on the top area too, from gear flex. I decided to
> head it all off and finally install the lines I bought a few
> months ago.
>
> One other thing I did was to take the advice of another
> builder and replace my caliper piston o-rings with
> some higher temp Viton ones...especially since he was
> nice enough to get me some milspec ones for free.
> The combination of lines and piston o-rings though, did
> cause me to have to bleed the brakes, of course...so that's
> good.
>
> I've got the whole thing written up here:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20080503/index.html
>
> With some additional stuff here:
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Screen Plug Crush Washer P/N? |
Can someone confirm the p/n for the oil screen cap crush washer? I
think it may be a MS35769-48 but cannot reference it anywhere.
Thanks,
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
RV-10 N104BS
25.3 into phase 1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aerotronics - Blatant Plug for "Plug-n-play" panel |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I just returned from Billings MT with my panel from Aerotronics. I consider their
workmanship and customer service absolutely first rate. I started talking with
them at OSH-07 and really got down to details in late Nov 07. with the final
details tendered in December 07.
The panel is basically a night VFR panel with a Garmin SL30 with GS/MB. The core
of the panel is the AFS-3500. All the detailing and wiring is absolutely great.
The service was great and they went over every detail with me to insure that
I got exactly what I wanted. Included is one year of after market service
that I have already exploited.
I picked up the panel (a 1000 mile drive) as I wanted to get a bit of training
on the panel and the wiring. I spent the morning with Jason and Andre who were
great. Aerotronics is a FAA repair shop so the EXP section is a separate facility.
It is a big shop and they are working on a lot of certified panels as well
as a lot of $100K+ experimental panels. My job was probably one of their smaller
jobs, but I was always treated with the utmost respect and consideration.
They were recommended to me by Wally Anderson of Synergy Air training center
in Eugene OR. I took Wally's recommendation even though Aerotronics was not the
cheapest.
I was not disappointed.
I picked up my panel as delivery is a big expense (insurance/packaging) and for
the same cost, my wife and I had a great trip to Montana. We saw Yellowstone,
Little Big Horn, the Art Museum in Billings and the highlight of the trip, the
Potato Museum in Blackfoot, Idaho. :D
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181148#181148
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_panel_120.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
my line bend is about 135 degrees. sorry about the big picture to the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines |
Have your local airport hose shop make you some. Measure from the tip of the
flare to the tip of the flare with a flexible tape on your selected routing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines
Hey Tim,
Great write-up. As usual your tips and tricks are priceless to this group.
A question about those brake lines. Since the braided lines are flexible is
the loop around to the caliper still necessary? Can you share the p/n from
Bonaco?
Thanks!
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
RV-10 N104BS
25.3 into phase 1
Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> It's been while since I've done any maintenance worth talking about,
> but this weekend I did have some interesting stuff with good results.
>
> I know we've talked about wheel shimmy in the past, and how getting
> the nosewheel all perfect is part of a fix for some people. I do
> believe though that the mains on the -10 have the tendency to "walk"
> back and forth, and that this is probably a cause of shimmy for some
> people who *think* they have nose shimmy. We've talked about
> balancing tires and how some people had good results...but this
> weekend I finally got to put on my first new set of tires at 330 hours
> and I balanced them out. Turns out I now believe balancing is key.
>
> I also replaced my brake lines from fuselage to wheel with some great
> braided teflon ones. Most people have heard of builders with cracked
> lines around that lower loop, but I know that at least one person had
> a nearly severed line up on the top area too, from gear flex. I
> decided to head it all off and finally install the lines I bought a
> few months ago.
>
> One other thing I did was to take the advice of another builder and
> replace my caliper piston o-rings with some higher temp Viton
> ones...especially since he was nice enough to get me some milspec ones
> for free.
> The combination of lines and piston o-rings though, did cause me to
> have to bleed the brakes, of course...so that's good.
>
> I've got the whole thing written up here:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20080503/index.html
>
> With some additional stuff here:
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines |
One other point. You can secure each Teflon line with 3 sets of two Adel
clamps. Clamp the leg with one and clamp the line with the other, then use a
single bolt to connect the two. This will prevent any vibration/abrasion of
the steel line and steel powder coat on the leg.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines
Have your local airport hose shop make you some. Measure from the tip of the
flare to the tip of the flare with a flexible tape on your selected routing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Recent Maintenance - Tires and Brake Lines
Hey Tim,
Great write-up. As usual your tips and tricks are priceless to this group.
A question about those brake lines. Since the braided lines are flexible is
the loop around to the caliper still necessary? Can you share the p/n from
Bonaco?
Thanks!
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
RV-10 N104BS
25.3 into phase 1
Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> It's been while since I've done any maintenance worth talking about,
> but this weekend I did have some interesting stuff with good results.
>
> I know we've talked about wheel shimmy in the past, and how getting
> the nosewheel all perfect is part of a fix for some people. I do
> believe though that the mains on the -10 have the tendency to "walk"
> back and forth, and that this is probably a cause of shimmy for some
> people who *think* they have nose shimmy. We've talked about
> balancing tires and how some people had good results...but this
> weekend I finally got to put on my first new set of tires at 330 hours
> and I balanced them out. Turns out I now believe balancing is key.
>
> I also replaced my brake lines from fuselage to wheel with some great
> braided teflon ones. Most people have heard of builders with cracked
> lines around that lower loop, but I know that at least one person had
> a nearly severed line up on the top area too, from gear flex. I
> decided to head it all off and finally install the lines I bought a
> few months ago.
>
> One other thing I did was to take the advice of another builder and
> replace my caliper piston o-rings with some higher temp Viton
> ones...especially since he was nice enough to get me some milspec ones
> for free.
> The combination of lines and piston o-rings though, did cause me to
> have to bleed the brakes, of course...so that's good.
>
> I've got the whole thing written up here:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20080503/index.html
>
> With some additional stuff here:
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dogsbark(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | sealing compound |
I'm just now getting into areas (brakes, fuel, etc.) that require AN ftting
installation. I notice on most websites, there is a sealant being used that has
a cream colored, paste appearance. Can someone let me know what it is and where
you got it?
I purchased TiteSeal from Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/titesealit.php
Looks much different, but by description seems to be fit for the application.
Anyone using this stuff?
Thanks,
Sean Blair
#40225
(waiting on engine to arrive)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Adhesive (again) |
| From: | "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Ron,
Let me put in another plug for Hysol EA 9360. I found it very easy to work with
while doing my windows. Afterwards I did some simple trials with plexi-fiberglass,
plexi-alum., alum.-fiberglass, alum-alum. After 1 week cure all samples
were virtually impossible to separate without destroying the bonded material.
Working time is approx. 1 hour @ 25C. Lancair uses this stuff for their pressurized
windows(which are installed from the inside) and for bonding major wing
and fuselage components. Tensile lap shear strength is 5000psi.
It can by air shipped, but that probably will not be necessary as there are 2 dealers
in the land of Oz. Located in Kilsyth and Welland. I think I paid about
$90US for a quart, which will be enough to do all your windows and anything else
you want to never come apart.
Go to www.aerospace.henkel.com for specs. and msds sheets.
Jim Berry
40482
Well adhered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181162#181162
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | sealing compound |
What you want is
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?query=fuel+lube&search=1.
This should be used on pipe thread fittings. It should not be used on flared
fittings; use the proper tool to flare the tube and the tube will be leak
proof at the flared fitting.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dogsbark(at)comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:19 PM
Subject: RV10-List: sealing compound
I'm just now getting into areas (brakes, fuel, etc.) that require AN ftting
installation. I notice on most websites, there is a sealant being used that
has a cream colored, paste appearance. Can someone let me know what it is
and where you got it?
I purchased TiteSeal from Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/titesealit.php
Looks much different, but by description seems to be fit for the
application.
Anyone using this stuff?
Thanks,
Sean Blair
#40225
(waiting on engine to arrive)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Screen Plug Crush Washer P/N? |
It's an AN900-16, same as MS35769-21.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Screen Plug Crush Washer P/N?
Can someone confirm the p/n for the oil screen cap crush washer? I think it
may be a MS35769-48 but cannot reference it anywhere.
Thanks,
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
RV-10 N104BS
25.3 into phase 1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_1177 |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
I posted information on Zetex several years ago. It comes in various
thicknesses and is often trimmed at the edge of the firewall with Red
RTV. The Lancair boys use it in combination to a stainless steel plate
at the exhaust discharge to reduce charring of their fuselage skins.
Tim used a similar but more cost effective product posted on his fine
website on the application after we witnessed what happened to Randy
back in '06. You have to put into perspective that they run with a
composite firewall and don't have the protection VAN provided with the
S.Steel.
It works great on the lower cowl liner within 6" of the exhaust stacks.
Remember those EGT probes go over 1000 degrees.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_1177
Please tell us a little about it, John!
On May 4, 2008, at 6:01 PM, John Cox wrote:
> The plastic boys rave on Dupont Ztec.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Aerotronics - Blatant Plug for "Plug-n-play" panel |
Those of us born and raised in Blackfoot may have under-appreciated the
Potato Museum judging by Mike's response. The next time I tell someone about
the Potato Museum I will probably mention that some visitors found it a cut
above other oft visited sites like Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, Meteor Crater,
and our internationally famous attraction near Yuma, the Official Center of
the World at Felicity, California.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
I just returned from Billings MT with my panel from Aerotronics. I picked up
my panel as delivery is a big expense (insurance/packaging) and for the same
cost, my wife and I had a great trip to Montana. We saw Yellowstone, Little
Big Horn, the Art Museum in Billings and the highlight of the trip, the
Potato Museum in Blackfoot, Idaho. :D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Adhesive (again) |
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
Thanks Jim, forgot about Hysol. Contacted the Loctite distributor here
in Oz who manages Hysol products. Believe it or not, EA 9360 is not
available here and will need to be shipped over (Hazmat). There is a
product available locally (E-20 HP) that has a bond strength of 4000psi
between Aluminium and epoxy substrates, but only 290psi to Acrylics - it
is also a typical Loctite product with expected bond line of 2-9mils
thickness. No good for the gap between plexi and windshield. Just
can't win! . . . .
Cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim berry
Sent: Monday, 5 May 2008 1:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Window Adhesive (again)
Ron,
Let me put in another plug for Hysol EA 9360. I found it very easy to
work with while doing my windows. Afterwards I did some simple trials
with plexi-fiberglass, plexi-alum., alum.-fiberglass, alum-alum. After 1
week cure all samples were virtually impossible to separate without
destroying the bonded material. Working time is approx. 1 hour @ 25C.
Lancair uses this stuff for their pressurized windows(which are
installed from the inside) and for bonding major wing and fuselage
components. Tensile lap shear strength is 5000psi.
It can by air shipped, but that probably will not be necessary as there
are 2 dealers in the land of Oz. Located in Kilsyth and Welland. I think
I paid about $90US for a quart, which will be enough to do all your
windows and anything else you want to never come apart.
Go to www.aerospace.henkel.com for specs. and msds sheets.
Jim Berry
40482
Well adhered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181162#181162
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
Rick Sked wrote:
> It's to allow you enough excess line to remove the caliper without
> having to disconnect the brake line.
>
And it will prevent fracture of the aluminum tubing at the B nut way
down the line. The big loop is there to take the stress off when the
caliper moves ..... but I think the culprit just may be high frequency
vibrations (chatter?) from using the brakes. Having said that, there
are a whole lot of certificated airplanes out there with the tubing bent
90 degrees and attached to the caliper ..... and the percentage of
catastrophic failures is fairly low. For me, however, it's just not
worth the risk of having oneself become part of the statistical group.
YMMV, of course!!!
Linn
> Rick Sked
>
> 40185
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Ackerman" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2008 6:53:03 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake lines
>
> David, did you make a big 270 loop with your Teflon lines like Tim
> did recently, or did you just make a big 90 loop?
> What is the need for the big loop with flexible lines? - I don't say
> it's not necessary, I just don't understand.
> John
> 40458
>
> On May 4, 2008, at 6:04 PM, David McNeill wrote:
>
> Concur on the stainless braided Teflon lines. Initially replaced
> the manufacturers suggested nylon lines on the Glastar. When
> confronted with the Vans plans for the soft aluminum hard lines,
> immediately switched to the Teflon lines. No need to let 5606
> anywhere near a hot brake. The resulting fire may cost an
> airplane. I secured mine with three Adel clamps. No problem flying
> with the leg fairings off.
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>p://forums.matronics.com
>blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I've decided to install a pop-out ram air turbine alternator as my backup power
supply. I'm looking for a good place to put it and the most likely place seems
to be the starboard skin of the baggage compartment. The entire package can
fit into a 7" by 7" by 8" cube to give you the approximate size. The pop-out door
is smaller.
To get you up to speed, here is the web site:
http://www.basicaircraft.com/
Bring it on, flames and all...
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181208#181208
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Excellent question. I'm in the early stages of designing the electrical and panel.
I've been reading Bob Nuckoll's book and other articles regarding dual alternators,
dual batteries, etc., and I've found myself leaning towards the single
battery/dual alternator path.
I have a lot of experience with drop-out ram air turbines in airplanes - not that
I ever needed to use it except in simulators. I'm comfortable with the concept.
The B&C or PlanePower vacuum pad alternators are logical choices in my book. They
are a little cheaper, as well. But I like the concept of a totally independent
alternator outside the engine compartment. I also like the "pull the handle"
logic. We all know that a pilot's IQ goes to about 40 when things suddenly
stop, and that pulling tends to satisfy the inner beast.
I think it qualifies as a KISS. No cowling to pull, one less thing to do in the
engine compartment, etc.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181228#181228
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
The PlanePower vacuum pad unit is for Continentals, not Lycomings. When I asked
them if they were planning to come out with an SD-20 alternative, they said
they weren't planning to. I for one hope they change their minds. Until then
I'll stick to the SD-20.
I admire your interpretation of KISS -- for me throwing a SD-20 on the pad is way
simpler than trying to design and install a ram turbine setup. Not a flame
as I like to see folks come up with different solutions to problems and am very
interested in seeing what you finally come up with--good luck!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181236#181236
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
The RATs on our air carrier fleet are one of the most maintenance
intensive accessories. They often do not work and require tremendous
ongoing maintenance to keep them doing what the college kids in Ontario
computer screens designed in their heads.
Look to someone who has a functioning RAT or be prepared to report to us
"How is that working for you?" as Dr. Phil would phrase it. All this
from a guy who will throw more features at an RV-10 than any one builder
would reasonably try.
For my acronym impaired buddies, that stands for Rotary (cause they have
to turn not just get air rammed through them) Air Turbines and it is
amazing how much air must pass through the blades to effect life
sustaining electron flow.
When the power goes out or the engine stops or the blade won't pull, The
aircraft belongs to the insurance company. Land immediately and walk
away to answer Dr. Phil. Do not follow in the footsteps of Mr.
Knoeplein (OSH '05) and try a backup system to correct an in-flight
failure.
John Cox
N49CX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tsts4
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 7:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Turbine
The PlanePower vacuum pad unit is for Continentals, not Lycomings. When
I asked them if they were planning to come out with an SD-20
alternative, they said they weren't planning to. I for one hope they
change their minds. Until then I'll stick to the SD-20.
I admire your interpretation of KISS -- for me throwing a SD-20 on the
pad is way simpler than trying to design and install a ram turbine
setup. Not a flame as I like to see folks come up with different
solutions to problems and am very interested in seeing what you finally
come up with--good luck!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181236#181236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance |
Hi
I am looking getting builders insurance for my -10. I am starting to
accumulate parts of significant value and they are not covered under my
homeowner's policy (I am still in my garage).
I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and what
the rate is per $1k of coverage.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Again
Yesterday I spent some time considering what will go where behind my panel.
As I plan to install dual AFS 4500 EFIS screens, I am *hoping* that the
cut-outs will provide adequate access through the panel rather than having
to work below the panel.
There is a lot of useful space behind the sub panel but getting at it will
be a monumental pain once the a/c is completed. It seems like the only
access will be from below with a couple of rudder pedal tubs in the way to
complicate matters.
I was wondering what other ingenious ways others have making use of this
space without having to expand their 4 letter work vocabulary.
Inquiring minds need to know ...
Les Kearney
#40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and
> what the rate is per $1k of coverage.
>
>
>
Generally 1% of the total value. I have $40k coverage on my project
at a cost of $400 per year.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance |
cost is 1% per year.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:06 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Hi
I am looking getting builders insurance for my -10. I am starting to
accumulate parts of significant value and they are not covered under my
homeowner's policy (I am still in my garage).
I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and what
the rate is per $1k of coverage.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance |
Dj / Dave
Who is the issuer for your insurance? I am looking at about 2% which is a
big difference.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: May-05-08 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and
> what the rate is per $1k of coverage.
>
>
>
Generally 1% of the total value. I have $40k coverage on my project
at a cost of $400 per year.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Window Adhesive (again) |
Ron
I would be inclined to see what other similar aircraft are using. A few
weeks ago I saw a "2 weeks to taxi" Glasair in a paint shop that used
SIlpruf to attach the windows. In fact I have bought the AirLink Tech
Silpruf video to see what is involved. This *suggests* that the Silpruf
method is an acceptable way to install a/c windows.
Accepting you data as accurate, there is a big difference between Weldon10
and Silpruf. The key question to be answered is therefore is "what is an
acceptable bond strength?" Intuitively, it would seem that 2700PSI is way
over the top as far as requirements go. This implies the window would have
to withstand a huge amount of force. I bet a nickel that the window or the
other underlying material would be gone long before the actual bond broke.
Please share whatever else your research reveals - I am very interested as
are others I am sure.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: May-04-08 6:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Adhesive (again)
Hi all,
Did some research over the weekend on replacements for Weld-on. Here are
some numbers I found on bond strength to acrylic:
WeldOn 10: 2700psi
SilPruf: 246 psi
Scotch Weld 2216 B/A: 1100 psi (shear) 500 psi tension (I think)
FE6026: dunno
Epoxy/flox: dunno
Sikaflex: dunno, but requires a minimum 3/16" bed
SilPruf is not recommended for structural applications and seems to be more
a sealant. And it appears to have only 10% the bond strength of Weldon.
Maybe I have dodgy data and am happy to be corrected by the fans. Given the
bond strength of the Weld On, it seems to me that the windows become an
integral part of the cabin and are therefore structural. I'm not sure I
would feel comfortable behind Silpruf, especially for the windshield (but of
course that is just my view based on the data I have so far).
I just can't find any tech data on the FE6026 that Jesse recommends and have
no clue what the bond strength of epoxy/flox would be. I'm really keen to
get some hard quantitative data before I make a decision. Can anyone fill
in the gaps (whoops bad unintended pun)??
Cheers,
Ron
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Adhesive (again) |
| From: | "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Ron,
According to the Henkel web site there are no restrictions to international air
shipping fro Hysol. You might double check with them to see if it is really hazmat.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181296#181296
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mr Luther Strickland <lljjss22(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Accuracy Avionics Production Manager |
All..
I recieved a call on Sunday morning from Eric McDonald, the former Production Manager
for Accuracy Avionics (AA). He called to make sure that I knew the status
of AA and provided me his contact information for assistance in working any
bugs out of the panel that AA built for me.
It's nice to kow that I still have the ability to ask questions to the guy that
actually designed and worked on my panel.
He asked if Tony Sustare, the owner of AA, had contacted me. I informed him that
the only way I knew about the status of the company was through the RV-10 board,
and that I have had no contact with Tony.
If anyone needs Eric's contact information please send me a note.
....L. Jearl Strickland
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mr Luther Strickland <lljjss22(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Accuracy Avionics Production Manager |
All..
I received a call on Sunday morning from Eric McDonald, the former Production Manager
for Accuracy Avionics (AA). He called to make sure that I knew the status
of AA and provided me his contact information for assistance in working any
bugs out of the panel that AA built for me.
It's nice to Know that I still have the ability to ask questions to the guy that
actually designed and worked on my panel.
He asked if Tony Sustare, the owner of AA, had contacted me. I informed him that
the only way I knew about the status of the company was through the RV-10 board,
and that I have had no contact with Tony.
If anyone needs Eric's contact information please send me a note.
....L. Jearl Strickland
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mr Luther Strickland <lljjss22(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Accuracy Avionics Production Manager |
All..
I received a call on Sunday morning from Eric McDonald, the former Production Manager
for Accuracy Avionics (AA). He called to make sure that I knew the status
of AA and provided me his contact information for assistance in working any
bugs out of the panel that AA built for me.
It's nice to Know that I still have the ability to ask questions to the guy that
actually designed and worked on my panel.
He asked if Tony Sustare, the owner of AA, had contacted me. I informed him that
the only way I knew about the status of the company was through the RV-10 board,
and that I have had no contact with Tony.
If anyone needs Eric's contact information please send me a note.
....L. Jearl Strickland
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Dj / Dave
>
> Who is the issuer for your insurance? I am looking at about 2% which is a
> big difference.
>
**Melissa Perkins**
**Account Executive**
NationAir
85 Perimeter Road
Nashua, NH 03063
(800) 356-7075
(603) 883-1299 Fax
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
This is what I did.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/08fuselage/index31.html
Lots of aluminum angle allows full access. So much so that I still have not purchased
any avionics. I'm leaning towards the AFS but I can pretty much accomodate
anything now. I'm still trying to decide it the 4500 is worth an additional
$1500 for an additional knob and faster CPU. Making it front mounting has
increased the benzel and mounting hole size while the screen size is the same
ast the 3500.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> Hi Again
>
>
>
> Yesterday I spent some time considering what will go where behind my panel.
> As I plan to install dual AFS 4500 EFIS screens, I am *hoping* that the
> cut-outs will provide adequate access through the panel rather than having
> to work below the panel.
>
>
>
> There is a lot of useful space behind the sub panel but getting at it will
> be a monumental pain once the a/c is completed. It seems like the only
> access will be from below with a couple of rudder pedal tubs in the way to
> complicate matters.
>
>
>
> I was wondering what other ingenious ways others have making use of this
> space without having to expand their 4 letter work vocabulary.
>
>
>
> Inquiring minds need to know ...
>
>
>
> Les Kearney
>
> #40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi William
Thanks for then photos - there are certainly some interesting ideas there. I
have shamelessly used the wing crib design on your website (I built it
yesterday). I just may "borrow" your panel access design as well.
As a first time builder, I just love the resources on this list.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: May-05-08 1:47 PM
Subject: re: RV10-List: Panel Access
This is what I did.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/08fuselage/index31.html
Lots of aluminum angle allows full access. So much so that I still have not
purchased any avionics. I'm leaning towards the AFS but I can pretty much
accomodate anything now. I'm still trying to decide it the 4500 is worth an
additional $1500 for an additional knob and faster CPU. Making it front
mounting has increased the benzel and mounting hole size while the screen
size is the same ast the 3500.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> Hi Again
>
>
>
> Yesterday I spent some time considering what will go where behind my
panel.
> As I plan to install dual AFS 4500 EFIS screens, I am *hoping* that the
> cut-outs will provide adequate access through the panel rather than having
> to work below the panel.
>
>
>
> There is a lot of useful space behind the sub panel but getting at it will
> be a monumental pain once the a/c is completed. It seems like the only
> access will be from below with a couple of rudder pedal tubs in the way to
> complicate matters.
>
>
>
> I was wondering what other ingenious ways others have making use of this
> space without having to expand their 4 letter work vocabulary.
>
>
>
> Inquiring minds need to know ...
>
>
>
> Les Kearney
>
> #40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance |
Call Falcon Insurance, the EAA (830-257-1000) insurer. During my last year I
insured 150k for 1500; will get a 750 refund since I switched to flying
insurance half way through the year.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Dj / Dave
Who is the issuer for your insurance? I am looking at about 2% which is a
big difference.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: May-05-08 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and
> what the rate is per $1k of coverage.
>
>
>
Generally 1% of the total value. I have $40k coverage on my project at
a cost of $400 per year.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
big picture separately
_____
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Access
consider some big acess panels in the glareshield.I have two, I believe they
are 7' by 5" great way connect/disconnect the dsubs,etc.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Access
Hi Again
Yesterday I spent some time considering what will go where behind my panel.
As I plan to install dual AFS 4500 EFIS screens, I am *hoping* that the
cut-outs will provide adequate access through the panel rather than having
to work below the panel.
There is a lot of useful space behind the sub panel but getting at it will
be a monumental pain once the a/c is completed. It seems like the only
access will be from below with a couple of rudder pedal tubs in the way to
complicate matters.
I was wondering what other ingenious ways others have making use of this
space without having to expand their 4 letter work vocabulary.
Inquiring minds need to know ...
Les Kearney
#40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: Picture 003 |
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Picture 003
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave McCoy" <dmccoy(at)nationair.com> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance |
Call Jenny Estes - NationAir - 877-475-5860
Regards,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Call Falcon Insurance, the EAA (830-257-1000) insurer. During my last year I
insured 150k for 1500; will get a 750 refund since I switched to flying
insurance half way through the year.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Dj / Dave
Who is the issuer for your insurance? I am looking at about 2% which is a
big difference.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: May-05-08 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and
> what the rate is per $1k of coverage.
>
>
>
Generally 1% of the total value. I have $40k coverage on my project at
a cost of $400 per year.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Panel Access / Defrost Fans |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Or you can place the world's largest defrost fans in those holes.
Speaking of defrost fans we just installed two high volume computer fans
in the dash. They are Vantec Tornado 80mm case fans that put out A LOT
of CFM. I believe they pass 84 CFM vs. the typical computer case fans
which are in the low to mid 30 CFM. Price under $11.00 each. These units
are industrial grade cooling for computer gamers. They are run 55 dBA at
full speed but I have a feeling the big fan on the front of the -10 is a
little louder.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999612
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Panel Access / Defrost Fans |
Can you send pics how you install this I am very interested.
Thanks
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Access / Defrost Fans
Or you can place the world's largest defrost fans in those holes.
Speaking of defrost fans we just installed two high volume computer fans in
the dash. They are Vantec Tornado 80mm case fans that put out A LOT of CFM.
I believe they pass 84 CFM vs. the typical computer case fans which are in
the low to mid 30 CFM. Price under $11.00 each. These units are industrial
grade cooling for computer gamers. They are run 55 dBA at full speed but I
have a feeling the big fan on the front of the -10 is a little louder.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999612
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Overhead console head room |
Chris,
I know we talked about AirCrafters' console on the phone, so please don't
take this as a sales pitch;-)
The stock ducts below the panel let in a lot of air. You can aim then where
ever you need it most, from a whisper to gale force.
I'm tall too, that's why I didn't want much hanging down from the ceiling.
So far our console is working out nicely.
I taxi with the door cracked open but with all the fuss lately I may stop
that. I've never had a problem, even with it full open. Usually I just
leave it cracked and hold the bottom edge with my left hand. I'd hate for
it to depart though, so I'm thinking I'll just quit that.
OIur RV is in the interior shop now. Should be done in a few days. I'll
post some pictures then.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Overhead console head room
Before installing my cabin top, I am trying to decide if I need an
overhead console, and what the impact on my headroom will be. I am only
considering the console for the front seat gaspers, as lights can be
installed without one. I am 6' 4'', and am concerned about the loss of
headroom from a console. I sat in a friends 10 that had a full width
console, and had a headroom issue. If I only brought a duct forward to
route air, could that 3inch wide, or so, duct up the middle of the cabin
top cause a headroom issue as well? I don't like my headset bumping on
anything! A real pet peeve. Has anyone ducted air up from the front,
possibly from substituting the steel cabin support bar with a larger
diameter, thinner wall tube, and running the air thru that? How about
enclosing the existing support with a fiberglass duct? Maybe mount the mag
compass in there and really look custom.
The real question is, do you truly need the additional air? My RV8 has
only the panel mounted air vent, and it is more than adequate, once
airborne, and I fly out of Las Vegas. Of course on the 8, you slide the
canopy back for taxi airflow, an option that isn't available in the 10. How
about taxing with the doors slightly open? Are the doors too fragile for
that option? My friend with the console says that the gaspers leak air , and
that's a nuisance in the winter, but he feels the overhead gaspers will be a
blessing in the summer, but as yet unknown. Would an inline fan, when turned
off, restrict the ram pressure enough to prevent unwanted leakage? A
shutoff valve would work, but that's complexity and weight that gains you
little.
Opinions or experiences anyone?
Chris Hukill
tailcone attached
(hanger sure got smaller)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Missing index holes in doors |
The first step in working with the doors is to locate and drill 6 index
holes per door (45-02). The 2 fore index marks are missing and one of
the window index holes has been ground away. I have the pink doors.
Has anyone else run into this? How did you address it.
I have a call into Vans and they are going to attempt to take
measurements. This isn't going to be easy given the compound curves and
lack of clean straight lines. I wonder how critical the precise
location of these holes is?
Bill "starting the door journey" Watson
Durham 40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Access / Defrost Fans |
Here's a link (16-18 pics) to one way to do it,
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2041%20Upper%20Fwd%20Fuse%20Install/slides/DSC04357.html
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Can you send pics how you install this I am very interested.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> John G. Cumins
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Missing index holes in doors |
LOL. The mating of the shells in part determines the location of the latch
box which contains the door handle. Get it wrong and your Van supplied door
pins will be too long/too short. The too short will have to be re-fabricated
from additional material. They advised me that they only make standard
length pins which is not reasonable since the location of the latch/handle
can vary due to door construction and latch placement.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
The first step in working with the doors is to locate and drill 6 index
holes per door (45-02). The 2 fore index marks are missing and one of the
window index holes has been ground away. I have the pink doors.
Has anyone else run into this? How did you address it.
I have a call into Vans and they are going to attempt to take measurements.
This isn't going to be easy given the compound curves and lack of clean
straight lines. I wonder how critical the precise location of these holes
is?
Bill "starting the door journey" Watson
Durham 40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Indran Chelvanayagam <dc71(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Missing index holes in doors |
From my experience with the green doors, the provided index holes
weren't very accurate, and do affect the final fit of the door.
For my second set of (pink) doors, I centered the C-1002-B inner door
shells in the cabin top cutout. You'll find that they will slide about
20 mm fore and aft, and about 25 mm up and down in the cutout. I
marked the extent of travel in all directions, then centered the door,
and back drilled the door from the existing holes in the aluminium
structure. The right door's index holes were correct, but the left
door's index holes were off by about 2-3 mm.
The outer door shell can then be centered on the inner door shell,
using the window joggle as a reference, and the four corner holes
drilled.
FWIW, I continued to cleco the door shells all around their perimeter,
rather than relying on clamps/weights to hold them together when gluing.
Now trimmed, hinged and latched, the doors fit extremely well.
Indran
>
>
> The first step in working with the doors is to locate and drill 6
> index holes per door (45-02). The 2 fore index marks are missing
> and one of the window index holes has been ground away. I have the
> pink doors.
>
> Has anyone else run into this? How did you address it.
> I have a call into Vans and they are going to attempt to take
> measurements. This isn't going to be easy given the compound curves
> and lack of clean straight lines. I wonder how critical the precise
> location of these holes is?
>
> Bill "starting the door journey" Watson
> Durham 40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
Starting with Bob Nuckoll's book (good reference for any builder), I
considered various designs with dual alternators and a single battery when
building my 8A. Most however had at least one way where a single fault
would end up with no electrical power. As I have dual electronic ignitions,
this was not acceptable.
Considering there is nothing as reliable as a maintained, modern battery, I
designed a dual Odyssey PC625 battery, single alternator power distribution
for the 8A. One battery has enough power to run the panel and ignition for
at least two hours - that is if you dump the heavy, non-vital loads like
landing lights and pitot heat. Both batteries in parallel (normal
operation) provides superior cranking power. While a single battery starts
my IO-360 just fine, I would not take off with a known battery problem.
I'll have a similar install in the RV-10.
I replace one battery every other annual, or if I do something stupid like
leave one of the master solenoids on and run a battery down to the ground (I
now have a light to remind me). This makes sure that neither battery is
over four years old. The first battery I pulled out is still in service on
a Pulsar.
I did a 2 hour test discharge using one battery. It keep one ignition and
panel up with continuous transponder and radio comms with air traffic
control (the other battery and alternator where available if needed during
this test).
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Turbine
Excellent question. I'm in the early stages of designing the electrical and
panel. I've been reading Bob Nuckoll's book and other articles regarding
dual alternators, dual batteries, etc., and I've found myself leaning
towards the single battery/dual alternator path.
I have a lot of experience with drop-out ram air turbines in airplanes - not
that I ever needed to use it except in simulators. I'm comfortable with the
concept.
The B&C or PlanePower vacuum pad alternators are logical choices in my book.
They are a little cheaper, as well. But I like the concept of a totally
independent alternator outside the engine compartment. I also like the "pull
the handle" logic. We all know that a pilot's IQ goes to about 40 when
things suddenly stop, and that pulling tends to satisfy the inner beast.
I think it qualifies as a KISS. No cowling to pull, one less thing to do in
the engine compartment, etc.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181228#181228
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N442PM First Flight |
| From: | "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
#40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the plane
now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down the baffle
seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between that and then engine
getting broken in it won't be an issue.
What a thrill!
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance |
This is the company that JT Helms was with (retired or promoted I think).
Just got coverage for 100K for $658 which is much less than 1%. That was
with the 10% AOPA discount. Policy is with AIG Aviation. $100 deductible.
Jenny Estes
Account Executive - Light Aircraft Branch
PO Box 3800
Chesterfield, MO 63006-3800
Toll Free (877) 475-5860
Fax (636) 532-3646
Email - jestes(at)nationair.com
www.nationair.com http://www.nationair.com/>
CA License # 0D36859
The two things I think about is 1) how do I feel about the folks I am
dealing with (Jenny Estes & Nationair) and 2) how well do they pay off if
you need to collect.
I am VERY satisfied with the initial service, item 1 and hope not to find
out about item 2!
Good luck
Bill S
7a finishing
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Hi
I am looking getting builders insurance for my -10. I am starting to
accumulate parts of significant value and they are not covered under my
homeowner's policy (I am still in my garage).
I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and what
the rate is per $1k of coverage.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
-----Original Message-----
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Turbine
Concurr with the dual battery single alternator concept' It is used on both
my Glastar and the RV10. Both odyssey 680s can be dumped through the starter
or as usual the second 680 is constantly trickle charged and will opeerate
the essential bus for at least an hour.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Turbine
-->
Starting with Bob Nuckoll's book (good reference for any builder), I
considered various designs with dual alternators and a single battery when
building my 8A. Most however had at least one way where a single fault
would end up with no electrical power. As I have dual electronic ignitions,
this was not acceptable.
Considering there is nothing as reliable as a maintained, modern battery, I
designed a dual Odyssey PC625 battery, single alternator power distribution
for the 8A. One battery has enough power to run the panel and ignition for
at least two hours - that is if you dump the heavy, non-vital loads like
landing lights and pitot heat. Both batteries in parallel (normal
operation) provides superior cranking power. While a single battery starts
my IO-360 just fine, I would not take off with a known battery problem.
I'll have a similar install in the RV-10.
I replace one battery every other annual, or if I do something stupid like
leave one of the master solenoids on and run a battery down to the ground (I
now have a light to remind me). This makes sure that neither battery is
over four years old. The first battery I pulled out is still in service on
a Pulsar.
I did a 2 hour test discharge using one battery. It keep one ignition and
panel up with continuous transponder and radio comms with air traffic
control (the other battery and alternator where available if needed during
this test).
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Turbine
-->
Excellent question. I'm in the early stages of designing the electrical and
panel. I've been reading Bob Nuckoll's book and other articles regarding
dual alternators, dual batteries, etc., and I've found myself leaning
towards the single battery/dual alternator path.
I have a lot of experience with drop-out ram air turbines in airplanes - not
that I ever needed to use it except in simulators. I'm comfortable with the
concept.
The B&C or PlanePower vacuum pad alternators are logical choices in my book.
They are a little cheaper, as well. But I like the concept of a totally
independent alternator outside the engine compartment. I also like the "pull
the handle" logic. We all know that a pilot's IQ goes to about 40 when
things suddenly stop, and that pulling tends to satisfy the inner beast.
I think it qualifies as a KISS. No cowling to pull, one less thing to do in
the engine compartment, etc.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181228#181228
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Accuracy Avionics Production Manager |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
John,
I think that is really in poor taste. I sent an e-mail to Tony on Friday to see
if in fact AA was out of business. He replied to me today, unfortuenatly to
confirm what has already been posted. So to imply he has cut and run is the
internet at it's worst.
I know people have been screwed when this has happened before (ie Direct-To) but
there's no evidence of that yet. People may yet be out their money but maybe
you should wait until the facts are in before you crucify Tony . Did you lose
money? If so I could see where you might be upset, but if not can we stay civil?
AA's closure is a blow for the whole community not just Tony, his employees
and customers.
My 2 cents.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181359#181359
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Ahhh...
Just the kind of response I was looking for - strong opinions. Keep firing, I want
to hear all the negatives. One thing I need to point out is that the RAT is
a ready to install device. All I have to to is mount a square bracket, cut a
smaller hole in the skin, and bolt in the device. Wiring to the bus and the pull
handle are additional, but minor.
RATs are labor intensive to airliners because nobody ever uses them and maintenance
has to "maintain them." In our environment, an easy matter. A simple airborne
test and a write-up would solve all the part 135/121 problems, but would
create a lot of MEL stickers. However, we can pull it anytime we want and get
it fixed with no problems, just don't make it a part of your POH IFR requirements.
In fairness to the airline maintenance folks, pushing it back in is no easy
job on an Airbus.
Keep the comments coming....
John
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181360#181360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | N442PM First Flight |
Bob any videos of your first flight,
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
#40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the
plane now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down
the baffle seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between that
and then engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
What a thrill!
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: P5280059, P5280060, P8120019, P8120020, P8120021 |
Dual batteries and primary and essential buses.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance |
Thanks Jenny
I am in Canada so that may make things a bit different. Can you place
builders insurance for a Canadian based risk?
Cheers
Les Kearney
(780) 707-0169
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer
Sent: May-05-08 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
This is the company that JT Helms was with (retired or promoted I think).
Just got coverage for 100K for $658 which is much less than 1%. That was
with the 10% AOPA discount. Policy is with AIG Aviation. $100 deductible.
Jenny Estes
Account Executive - Light Aircraft Branch
PO Box 3800
Chesterfield, MO 63006-3800
Toll Free (877) 475-5860
Fax (636) 532-3646
Email - jestes(at)nationair.com
www.nationair.com http://www.nationair.com/>
CA License # 0D36859
The two things I think about is 1) how do I feel about the folks I am
dealing with (Jenny Estes & Nationair) and 2) how well do they pay off if
you need to collect.
I am VERY satisfied with the initial service, item 1 and hope not to find
out about item 2!
Good luck
Bill S
7a finishing
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Builders Insurance
Hi
I am looking getting builders insurance for my -10. I am starting to
accumulate parts of significant value and they are not covered under my
homeowner's policy (I am still in my garage).
I was wondering what others are paying for insurance, if at all, and what
the rate is per $1k of coverage.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | N442PM First Flight |
Congratulations Good job
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 7:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
#40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the
plane now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down
the baffle seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between that
and then engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
What a thrill!
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | N442PM First Flight |
BOB,
Congrates..............CHT will always run high the first 50 hours....
............I was gonna trim the baffling...........after 50 hours it wa
s not an issue. ENJOY the Phase I.
DEAN
_____________________________________________________________
Recharge and relax. Click for great vacation ideas.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifliWBxpiU3D2WQufHbdaG
O5T38835ahgX5QFikVVDxB0tQo/?count=1234567890
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N442PM First Flight |
That's absolutely AWESOME!!! Bob, I've been following your progress
since I joined the list, and have enjoyed/benefited from your advice and
tips, it's really nice to see your dream fulfilled, keep us posted on
your phase 1, and we'll look forward to seeing you with your plane @ OSH
this year!
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
bcondrey wrote:
>
> #40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the plane
now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down the baffle
seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between that and then
engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
>
> What a thrill!
>
> Bob
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Access / Defrost Fans |
John, You are too generous, a true craftsman, gets it right the1st time.
There are many builders that truly are craftsmen, I'm just persistent
and trying to get close to their results. I've got some time on my hands
and I also take a lot of pictures (being careful to edit out the OOPS!).
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Thanks Robin, Deem is a true craftsman thats for sure. I am amazed.
>
> John G. Cumins
>
> President
>
>
> Robin
>
> * *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
Just to repeat the key point, you want to preclude a single point failure
taking out your power distribution system. Having a second (or more)
alternator, regardless of type, but retaining typical production type buss
wiring does little to prevent many common failure modes. There was a
article a few years ago about a twin (two alternators) losing all electrical
power by a common buss connection failure. It provides a good case study on
this issue. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Another consideration is the reliability of the backup power. A second
battery that is routinely used and monitored during normal operations, or a
stand by mechanical device that REALLY needs to work when you pull the cord?
Carl
RV-8A (400 hrs)
RV-10 (wings)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Turbine
Ahhh...
Just the kind of response I was looking for - strong opinions. Keep firing,
I want to hear all the negatives. One thing I need to point out is that the
RAT is a ready to install device. All I have to to is mount a square
bracket, cut a smaller hole in the skin, and bolt in the device. Wiring to
the bus and the pull handle are additional, but minor.
RATs are labor intensive to airliners because nobody ever uses them and
maintenance has to "maintain them." In our environment, an easy matter. A
simple airborne test and a write-up would solve all the part 135/121
problems, but would create a lot of MEL stickers. However, we can pull it
anytime we want and get it fixed with no problems, just don't make it a part
of your POH IFR requirements. In fairness to the airline maintenance folks,
pushing it back in is no easy job on an Airbus.
Keep the comments coming....
John
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181360#181360
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Turbine |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
or a stand by mechanical device that REALLY needs to work when you pull the cord?
Hmmm,
Maybe a vacuum system? [Wink]
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181400#181400
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I was told that the insurance does not cover you during the transport to the airport.
The greatest risks on you and the insurance company.
Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when it is
on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
Before you get your "DAR sign-off" it is just parts, and even at the airport you
should have coverage of 10% of your H/O policy. Please correct me if I am incorrect
on any of these details
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181413#181413
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N442PM First Flight |
ON Ya Bob!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
>
> #40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the
> plane now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down
> the baffle seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between
> that and then engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
>
> What a thrill!
>
> Bob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Door seal adhesive |
Has anyone tried proseal on the door seals. Not having any luck with
silicone
regerds Chris.
Cant find the 3m silicone over here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Missing index holes in doors |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Here's a thought on the doors. Ours are pink and I didn't give it a whole lot
of thought aligning them up prior to gluing -- the forward hole in the ear just
below the windshield junction seemed to work just fine as a starting point.
What I did notice (and didn't think to share until now) was that after centering
the handle mechanism in the pocket per directions, there was a slight difference
in penetration of the fore and aft rods -- as mentioned above.
So what I did on the SECOND door (since the second almost always benefits from
experience with the first, I try to do the least used or noticed first!) was temporarily
fit the rods in the mechanism with the rods either fully extended or
retracted, THEN mark it for mount in the pocket based on equal distance at the
tips -- problem solved. So if there's a slight misalignment in gluing the
door halves together, at least in terms of rod extension, it doesn't matter.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181436#181436
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N442PM First Flight |
Congratulations Bob!
Bill "itchy" Watson
bcondrey wrote:
>
> #40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the plane
now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down the baffle
seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between that and then
engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
>
> What a thrill!
>
> Bob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Missing index holes in doors |
It sounds like this approach addressed the centering of the latch
mechanism too.
Does the cleco'ing mean that you drilled holes around the primeter of
the door and top to clamp it during the gluing? Makes sense to me at
this point.
Bill "itchy" Watson
Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:
>
>
> From my experience with the green doors, the provided index holes
> weren't very accurate, and do affect the final fit of the door.
>
> For my second set of (pink) doors, I centered the C-1002-B inner door
> shells in the cabin top cutout. You'll find that they will slide about
> 20 mm fore and aft, and about 25 mm up and down in the cutout. I
> marked the extent of travel in all directions, then centered the door,
> and back drilled the door from the existing holes in the aluminium
> structure. The right door's index holes were correct, but the left
> door's index holes were off by about 2-3 mm.
>
> The outer door shell can then be centered on the inner door shell,
> using the window joggle as a reference, and the four corner holes
> drilled.
>
> FWIW, I continued to cleco the door shells all around their perimeter,
> rather than relying on clamps/weights to hold them together when gluing.
>
> Now trimmed, hinged and latched, the doors fit extremely well.
>
> Indran
>
>
>>
>>
>> The first step in working with the doors is to locate and drill 6
>> index holes per door (45-02). The 2 fore index marks are missing and
>> one of the window index holes has been ground away. I have the pink
>> doors.
>>
>> Has anyone else run into this? How did you address it.
>> I have a call into Vans and they are going to attempt to take
>> measurements. This isn't going to be easy given the compound curves
>> and lack of clean straight lines. I wonder how critical the precise
>> location of these holes is?
>>
>> Bill "starting the door journey" Watson
>> Durham 40605
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Doble (Home Office)" <mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Trim Tab Frustration |
After many months of putting it off, I bonded the trim tabs and elevator
trailing edge with proseal (not too terrible of a job by the way). Per the
instructions Page 9-17 - 9-18 and Figure 2 on 9-19 it says to rivet the bent
tab ends on the trim tabs with CS4-4. Huh? Did I miss something?
Instructions say to drill and dimple #40. CS4-4 requires #30 hole and
dimple.
Please help.
Mike Doble
Builder 40691
Working on my tail.....
Waukesha, Wisconsin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
Hi
I had a long chrt about this with my H/O carrier. This is a specific
exclusion.
My aviation insurer said that the builders risk policy would cover transport
to/from the airport. In fact when I pick up my QB wings Friday in Oregon,
his policy will cover the parts while in the U-Haul to Canada.
Perhaps that is why it is more expensive than what people are seeing in the
US>
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: May-05-08 9:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
I was told that the insurance does not cover you during the transport to the
airport. The greatest risks on you and the insurance company.
Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when it
is on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
Before you get your "DAR sign-off" it is just parts, and even at the airport
you should have coverage of 10% of your H/O policy. Please correct me if I
am incorrect on any of these details
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181413#181413
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Frustration |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Mike,
The last sentence in step 1 on page 9-17 has you drill those holes with a #30.
The gotcha (sort of) is step 6 where it tells you to dimple all the holes in
the skin but not specifically the close-out tabs. And then you rivet, as you pointed
out, in step 10 with the CS4-4s.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181466#181466
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Ogden" <OgdenK(at)upstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Frustration |
Mike,
I just went through this myself. I just drilled with the #30, and by
bending the tabs out a little I was able to re-dimple with my squeezer.
Kent Ogden
#40710 (tailcone)
>>> "Mike Doble (Home Office)" 5/6/2008 9:00 AM >>>
After many months of putting it off, I bonded the trim tabs and elevator
trailing edge with proseal (not too terrible of a job by the way). Per the
instructions Page 9-17 * 9-18 and Figure 2 on 9-19 it says to rivet the bent
tab ends on the trim tabs with CS4-4. Huh? Did I miss something?
Instructions say to drill and dimple #40. CS4-4 requires #30 hole and
dimple.
Please help.
Mike Doble
Builder 40691
Working on my tail.....
Waukesha, Wisconsin
http://forums.matronics.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
Avemco insured me while I moved the whole project between TX and WI in a rental
truck. That being said I will probably review options again when my current
policy expires this fall.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:13 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
Hi
I had a long chrt about this with my H/O carrier. This is a specific
exclusion.
My aviation insurer said that the builders risk policy would cover transport
to/from the airport. In fact when I pick up my QB wings Friday in Oregon,
his policy will cover the parts while in the U-Haul to Canada.
Perhaps that is why it is more expensive than what people are seeing in the
US>
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: May-05-08 9:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
I was told that the insurance does not cover you during the transport to the
airport. The greatest risks on you and the insurance company.
Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when it
is on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
Before you get your "DAR sign-off" it is just parts, and even at the airport
you should have coverage of 10% of your H/O policy. Please correct me if I
am incorrect on any of these details
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181413#181413
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
Nah, it is the risk of that steam boiler that you took out of the
Cherokee, Les. ;-)
They don't understand alternate power/engines.
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 6:13 AM, Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Perhaps that is why it is more expensive than what people are seeing in the
> US>
>
> Cheers
>
> Les Kearney
> #40643
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: May-05-08 9:58 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
>
>
> I was told that the insurance does not cover you during the transport to the
> airport. The greatest risks on you and the insurance company.
>
> Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when it
> is on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
>
> Before you get your "DAR sign-off" it is just parts, and even at the airport
> you should have coverage of 10% of your H/O policy. Please correct me if I
> am incorrect on any of these details
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181413#181413
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N442PM First Flight |
Well that will make 2008 a year to remember!
Great job, I look forward to seeing you at Oshkosh this year!
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
>
> #40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the
> plane now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down
> the baffle seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between
> that and then engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
>
> What a thrill!
>
> Bob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
Hmmm
For those of you who don't follow Kelley's reference, go to
http://www.kookamunga.net to see the only flying example of a "coal fired,
steam powered Cherokee". This may also explain why my -10 will have an Egg
engine.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: May-06-08 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
Nah, it is the risk of that steam boiler that you took out of the
Cherokee, Les. ;-)
They don't understand alternate power/engines.
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 6:13 AM, Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Perhaps that is why it is more expensive than what people are seeing in
the
> US>
>
> Cheers
>
> Les Kearney
> #40643
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: May-05-08 9:58 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
>
>
> I was told that the insurance does not cover you during the transport to
the
> airport. The greatest risks on you and the insurance company.
>
> Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when
it
> is on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
>
> Before you get your "DAR sign-off" it is just parts, and even at the
airport
> you should have coverage of 10% of your H/O policy. Please correct me if
I
> am incorrect on any of these details
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181413#181413
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Missing index holes in doors |
The four inch hand spring clamps work great too rather than making holes in
the canopy top...that is provided you still don't have either the windscre
en or the rear windows in. A helpful hint also is to cut strips of 1/16 or
1/8" ply to distribute the force of the clamps. The clamps can be placed ab
out 3-4 inches apart from one another.
As per indexing holes on the halves, only two of mine lined up anyway on ea
ch door. They were pretty worthless. Vans fiberglass???
Here is something no one else has mentioned. In addition to the dog ears on
the lower half of the doors which index the door to the fuselage opening,
I also made an aluminum jig from 1/8" aluminum. It was held onto the door w
ith two clecoes and one hole into the existing open holes in the fuse(Total
three clecoes each jig). Each door has a fore and a aft jig.These serves t
o keep the alignment after the dog ears are removed and can be used for all
types of things. Makes sure that any subsequent fitting or sealing or pin
adjusting, etc is done in exactly the same door position. KEY!
JG> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:57:27 -0400> From: MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> To:
rv10-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doo
> It sounds like this approach addressed the centering of the latch > mech
anism too.> > Does the cleco'ing mean that you drilled holes around the pri
meter of > the door and top to clamp it during the gluing? Makes sense to m
e at > this point.> > Bill "itchy" Watson> > Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:> >
et.au>> >> > From my experience with the green doors, the provided index ho
les > > weren't very accurate, and do affect the final fit of the door.> >>
> For my second set of (pink) doors, I centered the C-1002-B inner door >
> shells in the cabin top cutout. You'll find that they will slide about >
> 20 mm fore and aft, and about 25 mm up and down in the cutout. I > > mark
ed the extent of travel in all directions, then centered the door, > > and
back drilled the door from the existing holes in the aluminium > > structur
e. The right door's index holes were correct, but the left > > door's index
holes were off by about 2-3 mm.> >> > The outer door shell can then be cen
tered on the inner door shell, > > using the window joggle as a reference,
and the four corner holes > > drilled.> >> > FWIW, I continued to cleco the
door shells all around their perimeter, > > rather than relying on clamps/
weights to hold them together when gluing.> >> > Now trimmed, hinged and la
tched, the doors fit extremely well.> >> > Indran> >> >> >>> >>> >> The fir
st step in working with the doors is to locate and drill 6 > >> index holes
per door (45-02). The 2 fore index marks are missing and > >> one of the w
indow index holes has been ground away. I have the pink > >> doors.> >>> >>
Has anyone else run into this? How did you address it.> >> I have a call i
nto Vans and they are going to attempt to take > >> measurements. This isn'
t going to be easy given the compound curves > >> and lack of clean straigh
t lines. I wonder how critical the precise > >> location of these holes is?
> >>> >> Bill "starting the door journey" Watson> >> Durham 40605> >> >> >>
-========================
==> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Having difficulty getting 2700 RPM on the IO540D4A5 and the Hartzell CS
prop. Have tried adjusting the prop low pitch stop without positive results.
Did anyone else have to adjust the sped control inside the governor or was
the use of the set screws enough?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Missing index holes in doors |
John, I like the idea of the jigs for subsequent alignment. As I
understand it, the doors 'float' and I can imagine that precise
alignment later can be key for a craftsman like job. I'm going to check
out those 4" clamps too. Thanks.
So, is Vans' fiberglass quality (steel weldments quality too) a result
of it not being a core competency of theirs? The aluminum stuff is
just so sweet and the fiberglass such a pain. Or is it just the nature
of working in hand laid composites versus CAD/CNC produced aluminum
structures.
Is Lancair's stuff substantially 'better'. Plastic Germain sailplane
equipment is fine stuff but it seems just as painful to work with as
this stuff - but that is not an apples to apples comparison.
Re "Core Competency"; I mis-drilled a big 'ol #19 hold thru a piece of
aluminum and the glass top. After referring to Acceptable Methods, I
called Tech Support to discuss how to best fabricate a patch for the
aluminum. They sort of laughed off my concern about the aluminum and
suggested that nothing was really required. A subsequent check with
engineering resulted in the same thing, i.e., the aluminum is probably
fine but you can patch if you want. However, the hole in the glass was
a concern. I needed to be sure to plug with structural filler such as
flox. I'm thinking, 'duh, I know what to do with the glass hole but my
main concern was with the aluminum structure. I guess it's just what
you are most comfortable with.
John Gonzalez wrote:
> The four inch hand spring clamps work great too rather than making
> holes in the canopy top...that is provided you still don't have either
> the windscreen or the rear windows in. A helpful hint also is to cut
> strips of 1/16 or 1/8" ply to distribute the force of the clamps. The
> clamps can be placed about 3-4 inches apart from one another.
>
> As per indexing holes on the halves, only two of mine lined up anyway
> on each door. They were pretty worthless. Vans fiberglass???
>
> Here is something no one else has mentioned. In addition to the dog
> ears on the lower half of the doors which index the door to the
> fuselage opening, I also made an aluminum jig from 1/8" aluminum. It
> was held onto the door with two clecoes and one hole into the existing
> open holes in the fuse(Total three clecoes each jig). Each door has a
> fore and a aft jig.These serves to keep the alignment after the dog
> ears are removed and can be used for all types of things. Makes sure
> that any subsequent fitting or sealing or pin adjusting, etc is done
> in exactly the same door position. KEY!
>
> JG
>
> > Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:57:27 -0400
> > From: MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Missing index holes in doors
> >
> >
> > It sounds like this approach addressed the centering of the latch
> > mechanism too.
> >
> > Does the cleco'ing mean that you drilled holes around the primeter of
> > the door and top to clamp it during the gluing? Makes sense to me at
> > this point.
> >
> > Bill "itchy" Watson
> >
> > Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From my experience with the green doors, the provided index holes
> > > weren't very accurate, and do affect the final fit of the door.
> > >
> > > For my second set of (pink) doors, I centered the C-1002-B inner door
> > > shells in the cabin top cutout. You'll find that they will slide
> about
> > > 20 mm fore and aft, and about 25 mm up and down in the cutout. I
> > > marked the extent of travel in all directions, then centered the
> door,
> > > and back drilled the door from the existing holes in the aluminium
> > > structure. The right door's index holes were correct, but the left
> > > door's index holes were off by about 2-3 mm.
> > >
> > > The outer door shell can then be centered on the inner door shell,
> > > using the window joggle as a reference, and the four corner holes
> > > drilled.
> > >
> > > FWIW, I continued to cleco the door shells all around their
> perimeter,
> > > rather than relying on clamps/weights to hold them together when
> gluing.
> > >
> > > Now trimmed, hinged and latched, the doors fit extremely well.
> > >
> > > Indran
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The first step in working with the doors is to locate and drill 6
> > >> index holes per door (45-02). The 2 fore index marks are missing and
> > >> one of the window index holes has been ground away. I have the pink
> > >> doors.
> > >>
> > >> Has anyone else run into this? How did you address it.
> > >> I have a call into Vans and they are going to attempt to take
> > >> measurements. This isn't going to be easy given the compound curves
> > >> and lack of clean straight lines. I wonder how critical the precise
> > >> location of these holes is?
> > >>
> > >> Bill "starting the door journey" Watson
> > >> Durham 40605
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> &g===============
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Benedict" <c-140(at)juno.com> |
FOR SALE: Van's RV-10 emp/tail cone kit. Horizontal/vertical stabilizers
finished. Elevators partially finished, some work on the rudder. Experi
enced builder - quality craftsmanship. Kit located in Prescott, AZ . $35
25.00 invested, asking $2800.00 (negotiable). Contact Frank at: c-140@j
uno.com
_____________________________________________________________
Take a break - you deserve it. Click here to find a great vacation.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nJgyNRA0hTXKzffOLnoBS
vLnj2dI4sEb9NA2ORRRZBDhn9i/?count=1234567890
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | N442PM First Flight |
Congratulations again!
Now we want to see pictures.......
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
#40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and the
plane now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed down
the baffle seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between that
and then engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
What a thrill!
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
Checked by AVG.
11:22 AM
Checked by AVG.
11:22 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jenny Estes <jennyrvlist(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
Depending on which insurance company you go with for builders coverage you may
or may not have coverage for the parts during transportation. AIG's policy covers
the parts during transportation while Global does not. Your broker can see
about getting this covered with Global, it all depends on how many miles the
trip to the airport is. Your broker should be able to fill you in on this.
Regards,
Jenny Estes
NationAir Aviation Insurance
(877) 475-5860
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
> From: Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:58:10 -0700
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I was told that the insurance does not cover you during the transport to the
airport. The greatest risks on you and the insurance company.
>
> Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when it is
on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
>
> Before you get your "DAR sign-off" it is just parts, and even at the airport
you should have coverage of 10% of your H/O policy. Please correct me if I am
incorrect on any of these details
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181413#181413
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live SkyDrive lets you share files with faraway friends.
http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_052008
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N442PM First Flight |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Ok, here's the first time all three tires were off the ground! Susan
apparently posted a video on YouTube also. I don't have the link, but
if you search for N442PM it will come up (those sites are blocked from
my work computer). She wasn't aware that her camera was also recording
sound and her comments make it priceless!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
Congratulations again!
Now we want to see pictures.......
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
#40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and
the
plane now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed
down
the baffle seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between
that
and then engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
What a thrill!
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
Checked by AVG.
11:22 AM
Checked by AVG.
11:22 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Missing index holes in doors |
| From: | "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Regarding MauleDriver's question about the quality of Van's fiberglass parts: As
I have mentioned in a previous post, I hired 2 local composite gurus to teach
me some better fiberglass skills. Both are a&p's who spend about 90% of their
time doing composite work. I mentioned the frequent grumblings on the list about
the poor quality of the fiberglass parts. Their response was that the RV10
parts are better quality than they see on most of the all glass planes. These
guys have worked on multiple Lancairs, Glasairs and Velocities. They said that
even if the molds are perfect, the parts creep and move once they come out
of the mold.
Jim Berry
40482
Finished with fiberglass. Still itch.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181565#181565
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | N442PM First Flight |
Bob
Congrats. Nice photo and even nicer video on youtube. The comments are truly
are priceless.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Sent: May-06-08 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
Ok, here's the first time all three tires were off the ground! Susan
apparently posted a video on YouTube also. I don't have the link, but
if you search for N442PM it will come up (those sites are blocked from
my work computer). She wasn't aware that her camera was also recording
sound and her comments make it priceless!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
Congratulations again!
Now we want to see pictures.......
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N442PM First Flight
#40105 took flight for the first time this morning. All went well and
the
plane now has 3.1 hours on it. CHTs are a little high but I trimmed
down
the baffle seal a little and did a little sealing so hopefully between
that
and then engine getting broken in it won't be an issue.
What a thrill!
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181352#181352
Checked by AVG.
11:22 AM
Checked by AVG.
11:22 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | airwolf oil separator |
| From: | "lbgjb10" <lbgjb(at)gnt.net> |
anybody use the airwolf separator--or feel the need of one. any problems. larry
--------
Larry and Gayle N104LG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181576#181576
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
AirMike wrote:
> Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when it is
on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
My homeowners does not cover the airplane, even as parts in my garage.
I specifically asked this prior to ordering the kit.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N442PM First Flight |
| From: | "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
I'll add my congrats also. Plan on listening to the video too. I'm located on
the opposite coast (Sacramento area), but have a catamaran docked in Chesapeake,
VA, at Atlantic Yacht Basin. Do plan on flying our 10 out to the boat at
some point and was wondering if there's any temporary hanger space available (say
a month or two at a time). The plane is in it's finishing stages with some
panel work and odds and ends to do. By July it should be flyable. Congrats
again!
Don McDonald
#40636
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181612#181612
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Frustration |
| From: | "Andy Turner" <aturner(at)clarion.edu> |
Yep, add me to the list who failed to drill #30 and dimple those end tabs when
it would have been easy.
--------
Andy Turner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181618#181618
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Accuracy Avionics Production Manager |
| From: | "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com> |
I would like to get the contact information. I too have some questions re: my panel
before they fade into the sunset. Shoot me an email at
scout019"at"msn.com
Eric Kallio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181619#181619
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I have logged 18.4 hours now and by flying Wed- Sat mornings expect to have
Phase 1 complete by Saturday. Approach to landing stalls are very gentle;
good stick shake and no tendency to snap over. The Cheltons are ,in the
background, calling "stall stall" at about 5 kts before the break. The pitch
cap appears yellow on the PFD at 70 KIAS and red at 65 KIAS I may change
this as clean stalls are about 58 KIAS and flap stalls are about 48 KIAS at
2300 gross weight. One other thought when you get the DAR paperwork; get the
biggest area he can allow. At 10 speeds one does a lot of repeat landings
and make one of them a cheap? fuel stop.
Trimming the air dams in front of # 1 and # 2 have provided enough
additional cooling for now. temps are staying below 400f and mostly in the
was trimmed twice while #2 was trimmed once. I used aluminum tape to seal
baffling holes. Oil consumption for the last 5 hours has been about half a
quart. So thing seem to be settling down both in terms of temps and oil
consumption.
Hot starts using the procedure on a checklist I modified from someone else
on the list works well. I call it the turbine start. ignition on, throttle
fast idle and begin cranking, smoothly advance the mixture from idle cutoff
and the engine will fire as soon as the gas/air mixture is correct
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com> |
Just a thought... may get someone with a remote gun to check the prop speed. No
clue what tach you're using but on the grt eis there is a "factor" to choose
for accurate readings. If you choose the wrong one of course you'll not get
the correct reading (don't ask how I know) and you'll think you're not getting
the max rpm.
Folks that balance props have remote gun to shoot the prop.
Doug
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181635#181635
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
I'll second that recommendation.
0.65% is what I pay, with AOPA discount.
I tried all the majors, NationAir easily had the lowest rate.
John Ackerman 40458
On May 5, 2008, at 2:04 PM, Dave McCoy wrote:
>
> Call Jenny Estes - NationAir - 877-475-5860
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Access / Defrost Fans |
Well, Deems, I don't think so. A true craftsman fixes his mistakes to
a high standard.
Don't blush, now!
John Ackerman
On May 5, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> John, You are too generous, a true craftsman, gets it right the1st
> time. There are many builders that truly are craftsmen, I'm just
> persistent and trying to get close to their results. I've got some
> time on my hands and I also take a lot of pictures (being careful to
> edit out the OOPS!).
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> John Cumins wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Robin, Deem is a true craftsman thats for sure. I am amazed.
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>> President
>>
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> * *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
AND STAY WAY BACK OF THE BLADES WHEN YOU USE THAT OPTICAL TACH GUN, it doesn't
need to be that close to count them going by.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 7:24:49 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RPM
Just a thought... may get someone with a remote gun to check the prop speed. No
clue what tach you're using but on the grt eis there is a "factor" to choose
for accurate readings. If you choose the wrong one of course you'll not get
the correct reading (don't ask how I know) and you'll think you're not getting
the max rpm.
Folks that balance props have remote gun to shoot the prop.
Doug
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181635#181635
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Builders insurance |
With all this chat about builders insurance does anyone know where I can
buy avionics shop insurance???
Dr. Fred. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Builders insurance |
Pay with a credit card and insist on specific delivery very shortly after
payment.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
M.D.
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Builders insurance
-->
With all this chat about builders insurance does anyone know where I can buy
avionics shop insurance???
Dr. Fred. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Frustration |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Yeah, no worries Mike. This is an easy fix. The only reason I didn't miss this myself was pure dumb luck. Before I hit that section someone else had asked the same question over on the VAF forum so I avoided missing the step simply because I was at the right place at the right time. If you have not done so. I recommend taking a look at Tim Olson's site, www.myrv10.com. He's got a tips and hints page compiled from a host of builders.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181672#181672
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com> |
| Subject: | Door seal adhesive |
I got door seal adhesive from Brown Aircraft supply in Fla. 904-396-6601
-worked great with their seal.
John Testement
jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Painting
-->
Has anyone tried proseal on the door seals. Not having any luck with
silicone
regerds Chris.
Cant find the 3m silicone over here.
Checked by AVG.
11:22 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door seal adhesive |
I take it this means no one has used proceal. Will give it a try . Thanks
for all the replies we are in AUS so no Brown tool etc etc here but thats
fine will just try the black stuff.
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seal adhesive
>
>
> I got door seal adhesive from Brown Aircraft supply in Fla. 904-396-6601
> -worked great with their seal.
>
> John Testement
> jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
> 40321
> Richmond, VA
> Painting
>
>
> -->
>
> Has anyone tried proseal on the door seals. Not having any luck with
> silicone
>
> regerds Chris.
>
> Cant find the 3m silicone over here.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 11:22 AM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Door seal adhesive |
Chris,
Did you try checking with an auto paint shop or your local paint supply house.
They are almost certainly going to have a suggestion and supplier local to
you.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie McGough
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door seal adhesive
I take it this means no one has used proceal. Will give it a try . Thanks
for all the replies we are in AUS so no Brown tool etc etc here but thats
fine will just try the black stuff.
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seal adhesive
>
>
> I got door seal adhesive from Brown Aircraft supply in Fla. 904-396-6601
> -worked great with their seal.
>
> John Testement
> jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
> 40321
> Richmond, VA
> Painting
>
>
> -->
>
> Has anyone tried proseal on the door seals. Not having any luck with
> silicone
>
> regerds Chris.
>
> Cant find the 3m silicone over here.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 11:22 AM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door seal adhesive |
Sorry for chiming in late. I used Permatex Clear RTV Adhesive 66BR in a tube
from local auto stores. Seems to work fine.
Anh
N591VU-flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seal adhesive
>
>
>
>
> Chris,
>
> Did you try checking with an auto paint shop or your local paint supply
> house. They are almost certainly going to have a suggestion and supplier
> local to you.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie
> McGough
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:59 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door seal adhesive
>
>
>
> I take it this means no one has used proceal. Will give it a try . Thanks
> for all the replies we are in AUS so no Brown tool etc etc here but thats
> fine will just try the black stuff.
>
> regards Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:40 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door seal adhesive
>
>
>>
>>
>> I got door seal adhesive from Brown Aircraft supply in Fla. 904-396-6601
>> -worked great with their seal.
>>
>> John Testement
>> jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
>> 40321
>> Richmond, VA
>> Painting
>>
>>
>> -->
>>
>> Has anyone tried proseal on the door seals. Not having any luck with
>> silicone
>>
>> regerds Chris.
>>
>> Cant find the 3m silicone over here.
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>> 11:22 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance |
Most Homeowners policies do NOT cover piles of airplane parts in your garage
nor in a hanger. You can say it's a kit and not an airplane until it fly's
but that doesn't wash with most insurance policies. Specifically, neither
Farm Bureau or Travelers Insurance covers it and my insurance broker
couldn't find any that would if you actually told them it was an airplane
kit.
I wouldn't bother debating it here, just call your insurance broker and ask
him to put it in writing that your "airplane kit, engine and electronics"
are covered. If he won't put it in writing with those words in the same
sentence, you don't have any coverage.
Just my experience, not opinion.
Thanks Bill S
RV7a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders Insurance
I was told that the insurance does not cover you during the transport to the
airport. The greatest risks on you and the insurance company.
Also, I believe that most H/O policies will cover you as "contents" when it
is on site in your home depending on "Contents" coverage.
Before you get your "DAR sign-off" it is just parts, and even at the airport
you should have coverage of 10% of your H/O policy. Please correct me if I
am incorrect on any of these details
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181413#181413
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Good article for Lycoming Owners |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Here is an article that appeared in today's AvWeb, particularly
pertinent to us Lycoming owners:
http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_57_making_metal_197
700-1.html
Jack Phillips
#40610
Working on the Wings
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile
ged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas
e notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gluing Foam Stiffeners in Elevator |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
I'm at the point in the process of gluing the foam stiffeners inside the
elevator trailing edge + the trim tabs.
The plans call for proseal, but I'd like to use an alternative.
Did any of you use a different glue? Let me know.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | GA airports for Chicago |
Since the mayor gouged up Meigs Field, is there a preferred GA reliever airport
for folks flying into Chicago for meetings that occur in the loop area downtown?
Sort of RV-10 related, since I would take the -10 there if I can get over my resentment
of what they did to Meigs...
-Dan Masys
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
| Subject: | Gluing Foam Stiffeners in Elevator |
T-88 Structural Epoxy is what I used .
g
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Gluing Foam Stiffeners in Elevator
I'm at the point in the process of gluing the foam stiffeners inside the
elevator trailing edge + the trim tabs.
The plans call for proseal, but I'd like to use an alternative.
Did any of you use a different glue? Let me know.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Adhesive (again) |
| From: | "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
Re: Hysol,
Jim, can you tell why you specifically selected 9360 vs. many of the other variations?
I am very interested in using this. We use it at work on the jets and
I know it is great stuff and easy to work with. Also would like any tips, procedures,
or processes you might have while using it for the window installations.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181948#181948
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | airwolf oil separator |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Along that same line my 6A has an Air/Oil that does not return to the
crankcase but rather collects in a tube I drain after each flight. The
amount collected is generally a function of how much oil is in the case.
For my -10 I decided to try the Andair Air/Oil with collection cup. As I
am not flying yet I cannot report on its function. My only wish is that
the collection cup were a bit larger. Any overflow is routed to the
exhaust right next to my S/S hot dog & marshmallow skewers.
Photos:
http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/AndAir.htm
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GA airports for Chicago |
I'm personally relieved to find out I'm not the only one that needs to
get over some resentment..... oh, maybe I'll just hold the grudge a bit
longer. What a loss.
Dan Masys wrote:
>
> Since the mayor gouged up Meigs Field, is there a preferred GA reliever airport
for folks flying into Chicago for meetings that occur in the loop area downtown?
>
> Sort of RV-10 related, since I would take the -10 there if I can get over my
resentment of what they did to Meigs...
>
> -Dan Masys
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GA airports for Chicago |
| From: | "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
No real great close in options. MDW is OK, but very busy and probably expensive
fuel and fees. You can catch the train at MDW. DPA is a very nice airport and
the offer of a ride to the train makes it great. I am not sure, but PWK probably
has train access within a reasonable distance, as well.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181987#181987
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GA airports for Chicago |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> I'm personally relieved to find out I'm not the only one that needs to
> get over some resentment..... oh, maybe I'll just hold the grudge a
> bit longer. What a loss.
>
Please, feel free to take out your frustrations on my state's
wonderful gov't (Maine) and complain to them about their idiotic use
taxes on visiting aircraft...
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
G'day all,
Recently completed the final installation of the wingtips with lights,
Archer navs, MB etc. Needed to trim the TE 3/8" - 1/2" to align with
the aileron - not too bad. I did notice though that the aft underside
of both both tips were extremely loose and wobbled like really bad oil
canning (even with the closeout rib and fully screwed to the wing).
Easily fixed by gluing in a foam support rib toward the trailing edge,
but I was wondering whether others have experienced this?
Cheers,
Ron
-187 finishing (waiting on window glue!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airwolf oil separator |
| From: | "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
I was hesitant to reply because I have yet to launch the bird... I didn't like
the idea of dumping the breather contents onto the exhaust, so I found a nice
looking big block dry sump separator with baffling inside and a K&N filter on
top. Unit is priced under $100. I did modify the connection to handle a larger
AN fitting, but other than that, it connected up just fine.
Don McDonald #40636
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182035#182035
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2120c_116.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Will it replace 100LL? |
I know this is not builder related but fuel sure is a hot topic these
days.
http://www.avweb.com:80/avwebflash/news/NewGAFuelPromises_BetterRange_Low
erCost_197810-1.html
Dave Leikam
#40496 N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Adhesive (again) |
| From: | "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
David,
Two reasons for selecting Hysol 9360. First, it was recommended to me by 2 local
a&p's who have done the windows in 20-25 aircraft without a failure. Second,
I figured if it was strong enough to hold Lancair wings together it would probably
hold the windows in my -10. With a 5000 psi shear strength it is not likely
to be a point of failure.
One thing I forgot to mention previously is that Hysol part B is thicker than Proseal.
Warm it with a heat gun till it begins to soften before mixing it with
part A. Other than that, it is easy stuff to work with.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182082#182082
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
Ron,
Mine seemed pretty sturdy but I went the hinge route instead of screws. I a
lso fabricated an outer flush rib that fits inside the tip made=C2-out of
.063 sheet=C2-that is held against the hinges and inner rib=C2-in the
opening with two screws and nutplates on the inner rib. This conceals my hi
nge pins and makes the closeout of the wingtips neat and clean, no hole or
recess and allows access to easily pull the hinge pins to remove the tip. Y
eah I know...someone will want photos...I'll need to go through my vast fil
es and reduce the image so I can post it...
PS-I only had to sand my tips TE...they were one of the first batches sent
out after Vans made the fix...or I just got lucky.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron McGANN" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 3:50:20 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Wing Tips
G'day all,
Recently completed the final installation of the wingtips with lights, Arch
er navs, MB etc.=C2- Needed to trim the TE 3/8" - 1/2" to align with the
aileron - not too bad.=C2- I did notice though that the aft underside of
both both tips were extremely loose and wobbled like really bad oil canning
(even with the closeout rib and fully screwed to the wing).=C2- Easily f
ixed by gluing in a foam support rib toward the trailing edge, but I was wo
ndering whether others have experienced this?
Cheers,
Ron
-187 finishing (waiting on window glue!) "Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
===============
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good article for Lycoming Owners |
Thanks for posting that Jack!!
Makes me glad I'll be changing my own oil and some insight as to what to lo
ok for.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 5:42:52 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Good article for Lycoming Owners
Here is an article that appeared in today =99 s AvWeb, particularly p
ertinent to us Lycoming owners:=C2- http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviato
r/savvy_aviator_57_making_metal_197700-1.html
Jack Phillips
#40610
Working on the Wings _________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile
ged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas
e notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
=================
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
Ron I too had to cut heaps off but seem sturdy once fitted.
Chis
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Sked
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing Tips
Ron,
Mine seemed pretty sturdy but I went the hinge route instead of
screws. I also fabricated an outer flush rib that fits inside the tip
made out of .063 sheet that is held against the hinges and inner rib in
the opening with two screws and nutplates on the inner rib. This
conceals my hinge pins and makes the closeout of the wingtips neat and
clean, no hole or recess and allows access to easily pull the hinge pins
to remove the tip. Yeah I know...someone will want photos...I'll need to
go through my vast files and reduce the image so I can post it...
PS-I only had to sand my tips TE...they were one of the first batches
sent out after Vans made the fix...or I just got lucky.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron McGANN" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 3:50:20 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Wing Tips
G'day all,
Recently completed the final installation of the wingtips with lights,
Archer navs, MB etc. Needed to trim the TE 3/8" - 1/2" to align with
the aileron - not too bad. I did notice though that the aft underside
of both both tips were extremely loose and wobbled like really bad oil
canning (even with the closeout rib and fully screwed to the wing).
Easily fixed by gluing in a foam support rib toward the trailing edge,
but I was wondering whether others have experienced this?
Cheers,
Ron
-187 finishing (waiting on window glue!)
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
Hi Jason,
I was wondering how you are going with the development of the rudder trim?
Best wishes,
Rodger
--- On Fri, 22/2/08, jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com
wrote:
> From: jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, 22 February, 2008, 6:55 PM
> I have 'developed' a spring bias rudder trim system
> for the RV-10. After
> sharing this idea with Deems he encouraged me to do the
> same with the rest
> of the group. So here goes, but before I get into any
> details let me
> preface this whole conversation with a few thoughts. This
> is all in
> theory, I have absolutely no actual flight testing to back
> up any of the
> 'claims', or assumptions. Just good old common
> sense and a tiny bit of
> engineering. Our airplane is not in the air yet, I had
> hoped to get in
> the air, prove out the system, then share with the world.
> To prevent
> anyone else for possibly needlessly cutting into their
> rudder to add a
> trim tab, I have decided to bear the scrutiny of an
> unproven, theoretical
> system. Please be gentle...
>
> I will attempt to verbalize the system. I used two torsion
> springs, one
> mounted / wrapped around, each rudder bar (the bar that
> connects the
> rudder pedals). One of the springs is fixed on both ends
> providing a
> torsional force on the rudder bar. The other springs free
> end is hooked
> to a servo motor that allows approximately 30 degrees
> deflection. The
> theory is that the two springs will seek equilibrium (OK,
> that's not much
> theory, that's more fact), here is where the testing
> needs to happen. If
> I deflect the one springs free arm 30 degrees, will it
> create enough force
> to put the airplane in trim. The springs apply about an 8
> pound force to
> the rudder cables (pre-load if you will), assuming they
> will want to
> maintain in equilibrium a 30 degree deflection should be
> more than enough
> to trim the airplane. The servo will act as sort of a fine
> tuning
> mechanism, the course adjustment will be accomplished by
> winding more or
> less tension in one spring or the other during flight
> testing.
>
> I like a few things about this method.
> 1) It can be installed to any flying airplane with no
> modifications
> required other than wiring.
> 2) There is a chance that this system could be made manual
> and eliminate
> the RAC servo if desired.
> 3) This system provides tension to both rudder cables, no
> more 'flopping
> rudder'.
> 4) Keeps the rudder 'clean'.
> 5) Doesn't add much extra rudder input force.
>
> I sent pictures of this system to Deems, I will
> 'attempt' to post some
> pictures to this forum if there is interest. Comments
> welcome, I
> apologize for the extremely long post, but I have added
> Deems questions
> below, I figured if he asked, many more will have the same
> questions....
>
>
> 1. How did you determine which spring type/size/strength to
> use?
> OK, you busted me!! I didn't do the math, I feel
> extremely guilty about
> this, as an engineer, I should probably go back and figure
> the forces
> here. Here is what I did; since I grew up in the business
> of garage doors
> (my Dad owned his own company doing this), I went to Fleet
> Farm (one of
> our local supply houses, similar to most lumbar yards) and
> found a garage
> door spring that had an ID that would slide over the rudder
> bar with room
> to spare, and would fit between the two rudder bars (I will
> measure this
> for you). I then cut lengths of the spring until I got
> what I 'thought'
> was a reasonable amount of force with two turns of
> pre-load, and bent some
> custom ends on them. With torsion springs you have two
> options to
> increase the reaction force. You can add turns of
> pre-load, or you can
> shorten the spring with the same number of turns. I just
> went until I
> reached what I 'felt' was a happy medium. Remember
> that as you wind a
> torsion spring more and more the inside diameter decreases,
> until it
> eventually binds on the shaft (rudder bar). What mostly
> drove me not to
> do the math, was I had absolutely no idea what sort of
> corrective rudder
> pressure was required to put the ball in the middle. My
> plan all along
> has been to get it in the air and do some experimenting, I
> installed the
> system so that modification of the spring force should be
> simple. I just
> need to start dating a contortionist :)
>
> 2. I assume that you can 'adjust the torsional load
> somewhat by moving
> the collar/s, Is that true?
> Correct, I started out with each spring wound an equal
> amount. If I find
> that I need additional trim to one side or the other I will
> wind one of
> the springs to compensate. The servo will just provide the
> 'fine tuning'.
>
> 3. One of the pictures shows the center support brace minus
> the delrin
> bushings, I'm assuming that leaving those out is not a
> requirement of
> your approach and was just the result of taking the picture
> before they
> were installed?
> Correct, in fact there isn't a single modification to
> the airframe, if I
> remove the system no one could ever tell it was installed.
> I built the
> mount so that it could be used in either the forward or aft
> rudder
> mounting positions, my pedals are mounted in the aft
> position. But I
> drilled and prepped the airframe to mount the rudder pedals
> in either
> position.
>
> 4. What about the mount for the RAC servo, do you have a
> picture of it
> before the servo is mounted.
> See attached.... The angle was determined by something, I
> just don't
> recall what anymore. I know it has to be at an angle to
> work though. I
> can measure if you decide to attempt this.
>
> 5. Also it' looks like you used a small section of SS
> cable to connect
> the servo arm to the spring coil, correct? Picture?
> Correct, see attached. One end is run through the servo
> arm, the other
> gets hooked by the spring. The spring on the pilot side is
> hooked over
> the opposite rudder bar.
>
> I gave some thought to your desire to have a manually
> operated system, I
> think this system could be done manually with very little
> pain. You may
> be able to add a knob that would come out of the sub panel,
> really
> anywhere along its length. What would have to happen is a
> bracket would
> need to be made that slid over the rudder bar with a nut in
> it. Then a
> threaded shaft running from the rudder bar to the sub panel
> would be used
> to adjust the free arm of the spring. It may be best if
> the spring were
> pushed by the shaft instead of pulled, as this would make
> the mechanism a
> bit simpler. I could do a drawing of what I am thinking if
> you are not
> following.
>
> While it was not my intention to begin producing kits, if
> there is enough
> interest, I could be persuaded to fabricate a few.
>
> Thanks, Jason
>
> Jason Kreidler - 40617 Finishing
> (4 Partner Build)
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
VHMUM(at)bigpond.com wrote:
> Ron I too had to cut heaps off but seem sturdy once fitted.
>
> Chis
>
I got mine from Van's about a year ago, and I'm 1/16" long on the left and 1/16"
short on the right. Will sand the left but I can't see trying to build up the
right - maybe some leftover micro or something.
I found the trailing edge rib an issue. It doesn't appear to be large enough. I
added a scab piece which helped a little.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182116#182116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
The chord line on the wing tips should be 56 inches. My left tip was perfect and
required no adjustment, but my right tip was 1/4" short at 55 3/4 inches.
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/07Wings/wings99o.html
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/07Wings/index10.html
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
>
> VHMUM(at)bigpond.com wrote:
> > Ron I too had to cut heaps off but seem sturdy once fitted.
> >
> > Chis
> >
>
>
> I got mine from Van's about a year ago, and I'm 1/16" long on the left and 1/16"
short on the right. Will sand the left but I can't see trying to build up
the right - maybe some leftover micro or something.
>
> I found the trailing edge rib an issue. It doesn't appear to be large enough.
I added a scab piece which helped a little.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182116#182116
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator noise |
| From: | darnpilot(at)aol.com |
Howdy:
Any electrical gurus: I need an alternator noise filter (28v system). Any ideas
where to get a good one at a reasonable price?
Thanks!
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Wik" <jaycwik(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator noise |
I'm far from a guru, But I converted my Tripacer from a Generator to
alternator a couple years ago. I tried to solve alternator noise with a
progression of "Cheap" to Expensive filters to no avail.
Turns out the cure was the ground to the antenna. While sufficient with the
generator, I needed a better, slightly heavier wire - then no problems.
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:19 AM, wrote:
> Howdy:
>
>
> Any electrical gurus: I need an alternator noise filter (28v system). Any ideas
where to get a good one at a reasonable price?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Jeff
>
> ------------------------------
> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com<http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004>:
> America's #1 Mapping Site.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - RMI uMonitor - NEW - All Probes and Upgrades! |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uMonitor with all the probes
for a 4-cylinder engine including Fuel Flow, 4ea EGT, 4ea CGT, Carb Temp, and
Manifold pressure. The uMonitor just had all of the latest hardware and software
updates factory installed including the new high contrast LCD display supporting
Fahrenheit temp readings AND the new LED fiberoptic backlight. Also
included is the Aircraft Extras RM-1B plugin harness extender for the uMonitor
which greatly simplifies the wiring installation.
The uMonitor is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material
and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table
below lists all of the items included.
I have nearly $2800 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200
plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - RMI microMONITOR Assembled . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1299.00 $1299.00
1ea - Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp Display),
. . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware. . . . . .$ 399.00 $ 399.00
1ea - Manifold Pressure Sensor 10.0 to 59.0 InHg. . . . . . $ 68.00 $ 68.00
2ea - EGT/CHT Multiplex Switch 2 to 6 cylinders . . . . . . $ 60.00 $ 120.00
1ea - Fuel Flow sensor, FloScan 201B-6 - .6 to 60.0 GPH. . .$ 230.00 $ 230.00
1ea - Carb Temp Sensor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 55.00 $ 55.00
4ea - EGT Thermocouple - tubing clamp type . . . . . . . . .$ 65.00 $ 260.00
4ea - CHT Thermocouple - bayonet type. . . . . . . . . . . .$ 50.00 $ 200.00
1ea - RM-1B Harness Expander, Aircraft Extras. . . . . . . .$ 155.00 $ 155.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2786.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - Skyforce Skymap IIIC - NEW - Latest Database |
Dear Listers,
I am selling my new-in-box Skyforce Skymap IIIC full color GPS moving map with
Topo. The database and firmware were just upgraded 05/2008. Includes a Panel
Mounting bracket, GPS Antenna, cigarette lighter adapter, carrying case, and
all manuals. Brand new, never used. No scratches. The pictures below are of
the actual unit. The LCD color display on the IIIC is extremely nice and very
bright. Gives altitude readout. RS232 output.
I have over $2500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200 plus
shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - Skyforce Skymap IIIC w/ GPS and Americas Database. . .$2367.00 . .$2367.00
1ea - Panel Mount. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$98.00 . . .$98.00
1ea - Firmware and Database Update 5/8/2008. . . . . . . . . .$50.00 . . .$50.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2515.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - RMI uEncoder - NEW - Assembled |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uEncoder. The uEncoder just
had all of the latest hardware and software updates factory installed including
the new high contrast LCD display supporting Fahrenheit temp readings AND
the new LED fiberoptic backlight. The uEncoder displays airspeed, altitude, fpm,
OAT, and outputs Mode C data for most transponders.
The uEncoder is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material
and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table
below lists all of the items included.
I have nearly $1500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $1100
plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - RMI microENCODER ASSEMBLED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1179.00 . $1179.00
1ea - RMI Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp, US Miles),
. . . . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware . . . . . $ 315.00 . $ 315.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1494.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Missing index holes in doors |
Well, I guess I do find the Vans composite parts acceptably not "State
of the Art". Of course, I wouldn't know "state of the art" if I sanded
right through it. But the beauty of the '10 (and perhaps the rest of
the RV line) is the balance struck between technologies used, design
choices , building ease, and economy.
Lancair-ish composites are closer to "state of the art". This aluminum
stuff was leading edge between the wars. But it's real comfortable
homebuilding an aircraft with a 75 year old technology at the peak of
it's maturity. For this builder, that "maturity" of the RV line and
'10 product in particular makes it the only aircraft I would be building
at this point.
I view the glass content on the '10 as an optimal design decision and a
necessary compromise on what would otherwise be an all aluminum
aircraft. Otherwise, why mix technologies and complicate both the
production of the kit and the building process. A "state of the art"
performance in composites may cost more than desired or simply be beyond
the core skill set of the Vans operation. Probably a combination of both.
It's an acceptable set of compromises to my eyes. Of course I'm flying
a Maule - a true composite aircraft with steel tube, fabric, aluminum,
and fiberglass. A product of grassroots design, crude
construction, and open air painting. A successful exercise in low
cost and low tech by a family business in rural GA. It works, it's
cheap, and it's cute. On the other end of the scale, I owned a couple
of racing sailplanes. High design exercises from the German craftsman
school of engineering and manufacture. Pricey, ultimate performance
airframes. After some wing profiling and gear door repairs, I decided
composites were nice to fly but an acquired taste to work with.
Bill "gonna sand some doors" Watson
First timer in Durham
John Cox wrote:
>
> It is unfortunate that the Repeat Offenders and new Van kit builders
> believe the Vans parts to be acceptable. The developments in
> solvents, cements, potting compounds and substrates are easily a
> decade ahead of what is "Vans - State of the Art". I found it
> interesting to hear the guys at Composites Unlimited who are equal or
> second only to Scaled Composites in moving the bar.
>
>
>
> They can often tell by the product who built it and what was used
> because the changes have been so pronounced. What the RV-10 list
> needs are Composite guys like you who have dealt with professionals at
> Phoenix Composites to bring us into the 21st century and not circa
> 1958. Abarus training in Nevada does a pretty compelling job and then
> you stack it against the home projects at OSH and it all falls into a
> logical order.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | N46007 Phase I complete |
N46007 completed Phase one this morning; CHTs are settling; now all between
340-380 at low cruise (130 KIAS) I would expect that there will be further
cooling for a given power setting when we get the wheel pants and leg
fairings installed. I would expect another 10 KIAS at least for a given
power setting. Have leaned EGTs to the 1350-11400 range and have fuel flow
down in the 11-12 gph range. The injectors seem to pretty evenly matched as
the EGT range for a given setting is less than 20 degrees. Will have to
re-index the prop governor arm as do not get more than 2600 rpm at any time.
Already tried adjusting the low pitch stop on the prop. Plan to place some
insulation on the lower cowl to prevent deliberation from exhaust heat
radiation. Do not have a hot tunnel at all. attribute this to good sealing
(with baffling material and rtv) of the cabin heat valves. Full flap
landings at forward CG require a good pull on the stick unless there is a
lot of up trim already set. Largest direct crosswind encountered was 10 kts.
Landing was fine with 1/3 flaps and 65 KIAS on short final at 2300 lbs.
Standard wing down into the crosswind and rudder the aircraft straight down
the runway. Chelton system is impressive; HITS provides guidance for the
complete approach procedure; will update the databases and software next
week. Trutrak AP handy but the Cheltons are easy to hand fly precisely. I
have the TT 2.2 software and need an upgrade to 2.24 for the VNAV stuff to
work properly. I did find that the magnetometer in the DigiFlite II is not
useful. After calibration it is still off the Cheltons and the GRT by 10-15
degrees. Floscan transducer is very accurate; I adjusted my calibration
value in the GRT EIS6000 down from 200 to 178. I now find that the agreement
between amount used and actual is less than .2 gallon and this may be due to
how closely I fill the tanks. The GRT Sport backup EFIS is usually set to
map (XM weather) for flight but is on the engine page for start. With the
dual battery setup all the avionics are perking about 2 minutes before
start. They are disconnected from the starting primary bus. One thing I
would suggest is that the AP should be on a toggle breaker. mine is
pullable. I initially was told by the TT staff that starting with the AP on
would not be a problem on that bus; reading there documentation suggest a
different story. The truth is somewhere between. The Trutrak AP can be ON
when the aircraft is started but the initialization sequence should be
complete. Will post more later.Perhaps after a trip to the paint shop and a
re-weighing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10??? |
I finally got my RV-10 painted and all back together this weekend. Here is a link
to the pictures on PicasaWeb
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/PaintingN519RVMay2008
Thanks
Ray Doerr
N519RV (40250) 373 hrs on the Hobbs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10??? |
Real Nice! Inspiring.
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
>
> I finally got my RV-10 painted and all back together this weekend. Here is a
link to the pictures on PicasaWeb
>
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/PaintingN519RVMay2008
>
>
> Thanks
> Ray Doerr
> N519RV (40250) 373 hrs on the Hobbs.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10??? |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Ray, the process pictures allow us a chance to relate even closer to the
pride you must feel on the final product. I would bet those Columbia
(Cessna's) are feeling lonely on the ramp next to N419RV, that is one
fast paint job.
John Cox
40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10???
I finally got my RV-10 painted and all back together this weekend. Here
is a link to the pictures on PicasaWeb
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/PaintingN519RVMay2008
Thanks
Ray Doerr
N519RV (40250) 373 hrs on the Hobbs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com> |
| Subject: | Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10??? |
Ray,
Looks really nice! Great design!
Mind sharing how long it took to paint, who did the work, cost??
John Testement
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 6:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10???
-->
I finally got my RV-10 painted and all back together this weekend. Here is
a link to the pictures on PicasaWeb
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/PaintingN519RVMay2008
Thanks
Ray Doerr
N519RV (40250) 373 hrs on the Hobbs.
Checked by AVG.
11:12 AM
Checked by AVG.
11:12 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10??? |
The deal I made with the painter was that I would do all the prep of the fiberglass
including spraying them with 2K buildup primer. I also did all the
dis-assembly and re-assemble. It took about 12 man hours to do the dis-assemble,
which included removing all fiberglass parts, inspection plates, trim motors,
wheel pants, gearleg fairings, antenna's, cowl and spinner. Basically anything
that could be removed, was, include the data plate. It then took about
18 man hours to do the re-assembly which included installing the wing walk material
and the Teflon tape to the flaps. Since I ran out of time prepping the
plane, the painter had to spray the build up primer on the doors and cabin top,
the rest I had done, so he charged me $70 hours for that work. The total bill
was $6620.
A friend of mine dropped in on me when I was re-assembling the plane at the
paint shop and got a quote for his 3 color paint scheme for his RV-9A. He quoted
him $4500 if he completed all the fiberglass prep work up to and including
the 2K primer and $6500 if the painter had to do it all.
The painter is based on the field at Miami County Airport in Paola, Kansas (K81), also great BBQ restaurant on the field as well. The company is called Aircraft Refinishing Company Inc. and here is a link to there web site. http://aircraftrefinishingco.com/index.html
Thanks
Ray Doerr
N519RV (40250) 373 hrs on the Hobbs.
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of John Testement [jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10???
Ray,
Looks really nice! Great design!
Mind sharing how long it took to paint, who did the work, cost??
John Testement
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 6:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Is it a Columbia 400/Cessna 400 or a RV10???
-->
I finally got my RV-10 painted and all back together this weekend. Here is
a link to the pictures on PicasaWeb
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/PaintingN519RVMay2008
Thanks
Ray Doerr
N519RV (40250) 373 hrs on the Hobbs.
Checked by AVG.
11:12 AM
Checked by AVG.
11:12 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
| From: | jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com |
All, I have received several off-line inquiries as to the status of the
development of the spring bias rudder trim system. The work continues
however, it has gone down an unexpected path. Since receiving so many
requests for kits, I decided it would be best to put pencil to paper and
actually calculate the trim forces we could expect to see. Well, numbers
don't lie (if you ask the right question), and the numbers didn't look
good. The maximum trim force I could accomplish given the limits of the
servo motor both in stroke, and thrust, is 2lbs.
This is far below the value required to effectively trim the aircraft
through a wide range of the flight envelope. Van's estimated the required
forces to be 5-10 lbs for 'standard' trim, and 25 lbs for takeoff measured
at the bottom of the rudder pedal. I had a conversation with Ken from
Vans at Sun-N-Fun, I asked him "If you were going to design a rudder trim
for the 10 what would it look like?". Long answer short, he would design
a spring bias system, he would not add a movable trim tab to the rudder
due to the potential to put the rudder out of balance. Please note, I am
not trying to start a war here on the better way to add trim, just
relaying what I was told. He liked a spring system because it holds a bit
of pressure on the rudder, which could eliminate some adverse yaw in
turbulence. I asked him why they haven't designed a system yet, and he
first replied, we really don't think it is necessary, he then said that he
has tried a few times and couldn't come up with a simple enough solution.
So, what does this all mean? After seeing the post by Albert Gardner I
started to rethink the concept. I liked the idea of using extension
springs, as they would allow the forces acting on the servo to stay within
limits, while providing 10+ lbs of trim force. I still like the idea of
keeping the rudder cables under tension throughout the system, this means
the springs still need to be connected up-front. I have some ideas, but
have not assemble the complete concept yet. Unfortunately it will not be
as simple, which is a big negative in my book, I really like simple!
All is not lost, if a person does not want rudder trim, but is tired of
'floppy rudder syndrome' the torsion springs provide enough force. They
can be wound during installation to accomplish a certain fixed trim force,
eliminating the need to glue a trim block to the rudder. I will let
everyone know how this all turns out. Sorry for not sending an update
earlier, but I have been trying to get a complete answer before posting
something again.
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - #40617 - Finishing
4 Partner Build
Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, and Wayne Elsner
Sheboygan Falls, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Ogden" <OgdenK(at)upstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
Jason,
Although I am quite early in the build, I have followed the rudder trim
threads with interest and I thought that the torsion spring was a great
idea. I was afraid that the linear servo approach might not work though,
and am sorry to hear your results. The reason it doesn't work, as you
found, is that the torque gradient (amount of torque per unit angular
displacement) of the torsion spring is too low, so the linear servo can't
produce enough displacement to generate the required force. The thing is,
the low torque gradient is necessary or a large force from the pilots leg
will be required to fully displace the rudder pedal.
I think this could be made to work in the same way that my garage door
tensioner works. It uses a worm gear to drive another gear that is fixed to
the end of the spring. You stick a hex driver in the end of the worm gear
and turn it with an electric drill to tension the torsion spring. The
amount of rotation of the spring is essentially unlimited using this method.
The ratio of the worm gear rotations to torsion spring rotations is high,
so any typical electric drill can provide enough torque to tension the
spring.
The analog for the rudder trim would be a 'rotary' servo (not sure if this
is correct terminology, I don't see this kind of thing on the Ray Allen web
site) that could spin a worm gear in either direction, driving a second gear
that is coaxial to and attached to the torsion spring, to tension the
spring. Much more complicated than what you tried, but I still like it
better (at this point at least) than chopping up my rudder to add a trim
system. Nothing beats the simplicity of a trim tab though!
Kent Ogden
#40710 Tailcone
>>> 5/12/2008 8:03 AM >>>
All, I have received several off-line inquiries as to the status of the
development of the spring bias rudder trim system.
<>
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - #40617 - Finishing
4 Partner Build
Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, and Wayne Elsner
Sheboygan Falls, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
I just returned from The NW RV-10 builders semi annual dinner/get
together. There were 6-7 RV-10's that flew in for it. Among them was
Bill & Susie DeRouchey's plane from So Calif. Bill showed us his
solution for rudder trim. I was blown away !!!!! It is similar in
concept to what Bill Watson is suggesting, it is _elegantly simple_,
easy to implement and very effective. and has some benefits beyond trim.
I don't want to steal Bill's thunder so I'll wait for him to respond
directly. Bill and Susie are probably flying back home and it may be a
day or two before he's back on the list. When he reads this I'm hoping
he'll post some pictures and additional information. (I left my camera
in the bag in my room and couldn't take any pics).
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> considered a totally manual/mechanical system? For example,
> actuation via a pull on T-handle with a twist to lock mechanism.
PS. You should also see what the artistry and engineering of Paul
Grimstad has developed? (I'm salivating over it!!!!!!!!!)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Anyone consider these?
http://controls.tuthill.com/Products/ControlCableAssemblies/ControlCables.as
p
Could be vernier controlled and actuate via a spring the right rudder
pedal?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Brake line question |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm going to install some of the brake lines up to where they leave the tunnel
and I'm trying to pull the F 1067A Seat Floor for better access. I can get it
to slide aft about 1/16th of an inch and that's about it. Has anybody run into
this?
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182722#182722
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Brake line question |
John,
I had a similar issue when I fit mine originally. It is due to the F-1067A
being too wide (just barely) to actually fit between the tunnel and the
F-1016 side panels. I was able to work mine out with a minimum of force and
not too much primer removal.
To make re-installation easier I use the scotch bright wheel and cleaned off
a bit of the F-1067A's on the inside edge on the back corner. I also
slightly (just a hair maybe a millimeter or so ) increased the size of the
joggle out the outside rear corner of the F-1067A's to help it clear the
F-1016 side panels.
My plane, if it ever flies, will probably fly crooked now :-)
-Ben
#40579
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Brake line question
I'm going to install some of the brake lines up to where they leave the
tunnel and I'm trying to pull the F 1067A Seat Floor for better access. I
can get it to slide aft about 1/16th of an inch and that's about it. Has
anybody run into this?
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182722#182722
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Low Tech Rudder Trim |
After showing Deems this setup at a great RV-10 NW dinner and flying a while to
prove its worth I am ready to go public. I thought of several complex designs
using spring bias and scrapped them all due to various reasons.
Lets start with two statements. First, the proper engineering solution is cutting
into the rudder and installing a servo and a small trailing tab. This approach
has a built-in failsafe in that the rudder pedals can always override the
rudder trim. Secondly, I expect my idea to be rejected many in the list because
it will be judged as crude, however, a simple design can be elegant in its
simplicity.
I chose to not cut into my beautifully painted rudder and opt for a less proper
engineering solution. What I have devised is to modify the rudder cable nylon
fairleads just in front of the fuel switch valve to also pinch the cable when
a screw clamp is tightened. I set the rudder trim with my feet then pinch one
or both cables. See attachments for a visual. There are some tricks to get this
very simple design to work properly.
The big negative (in my mind) with this approach is I did not want to get caught
with the rudder locked when I needed it. The imagined solution was to handle
it with procedures kicking the rudder before takeoff and when beginning decent.
As I began to fly, this issue became moot since my feet instantly sensed the
lock when they are applied to the pedals and my mind learned how to react immediately.
My feet feel they are pushing against a brick wall and the release
knobs are within inches of my hand. Typically, only one of the knobs are tightened.
Two additional good features were observed. When parked it becomes a great gust
lock for the rudder. Also, on my way to the NW RV-10 dinner the yaw ball was
centered, my feet were on the floor, and the cable locks were loose when I encountered
turbulence as the terrain rose north of Redding CA. We yawed around a
bit then I locked both clamps (one per cable). The yawing diminshed about 80%
and reduced my piloting effort. In the future, I do not know if I will lock
the rudder during turbulence or use my feet. Need more experimentation in this
situation.
The original design is pictured in the attachment and I got it about right. After
these pics were taken I replaced the Nylox nut with a AN3 anchor nut (AN366F
style probably best) to adjust the clamp loose cable tension without removing
the tunnel cover. Also, I reduced the outboard nylon block thickness to 3/8"
to route the cable around the fuel selector switch. Probably should have been
5/16". The knob is a Reid Supply Co p/n KA-1. Clamp the two nylon blocks together
and drill an 1/8" hole through the mating surface. Then mill the thick block
with the half hole surface down .015 to .020. This will create a rocking motion
with the cable as its fulcrum to create the pinching force.
The pedal force will be heavier than the incredibly light stock version by maybe
two times due to the drag of the fairlead. After 3 or 4 flights it is not
noticable because the nylon fairlead begins to smooth out and the mind does adapt.
Thanks to John Jessen, John Cox, Rob & Jenny Hickman and others for a delightful
afternoon. Of course, its always a good day when I see Deems.
Bill and Sara DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Accuracy Avionics |
| From: | "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)MSN.COM> |
Has anyone received any information about what went down at Accuracy. They emailed
customers saying they were closing their doors and an attorney would be in
contact, then they were gone. Does anyone expect to get their money or have we
seen a repeat of the Direct 2 Avionics cut and run.
Eric Kallio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182758#182758
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Tech Rudder Trim |
Bill
thankyou for sharing your info with us. I am a bit concerned
about the safety factor of it being locked in as even the auto pilot can
be over ridden with force. I think there are to many "what ifs" for a
critical control to be locked in even one side.
I would definitly take it out if you sold the plane.
On our 6 we just riveted a simple bent piece of aloy set up for cruise
speed and painted the same as the rudder. Worked fine and failsafe.
Thanks again Bill and I am sure others will have ideas to and will
probably disagree with me but thats what the list is for , throwing
ideas around.
regards Chris 388
VH-ICY waiting to be signed off
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill DeRouchey
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Low Tech Rudder Trim
After showing Deems this setup at a great RV-10 NW dinner and flying a
while to prove its worth I am ready to go public. I thought of several
complex designs using spring bias and scrapped them all due to various
reasons.
Lets start with two statements. First, the proper engineering solution
is cutting into the rudder and installing a servo and a small trailing
tab. This approach has a built-in failsafe in that the rudder pedals can
always override the rudder trim. Secondly, I expect my idea to be
rejected many in the list because it will be judged as crude, however, a
simple design can be elegant in its simplicity.
I chose to not cut into my beautifully painted rudder and opt for a
less proper engineering solution. What I have devised is to modify the
rudder cable nylon fairleads just in front of the fuel switch valve to
also pinch the cable when a screw clamp is tightened. I set the rudder
trim with my feet then pinch one or both cables. See attachments for a
visual. There are some tricks to get this very simple design to work
properly.
The big negative (in my mind) with this approach is I did not want to
get caught with the rudder locked when I needed it. The imagined
solution was to handle it with procedures kicking the rudder before
takeoff and when beginning decent. As I began to fly, this issue became
moot since my feet instantly sensed the lock when they are applied to
the pedals and my mind learned how to react immediately. My feet feel
they are pushing against a brick wall and the release knobs are within
inches of my hand. Typically, only one of the knobs are tightened.
Two additional good features were observed. When parked it becomes a
great gust lock for the rudder. Also, on my way to the NW RV-10 dinner
the yaw ball was centered, my feet were on the floor, and the cable
locks were loose when I encountered turbulence as the terrain rose north
of Redding CA. We yawed around a bit then I locked both clamps (one per
cable). The yawing diminshed about 80% and reduced my piloting effort.
In the future, I do not know if I will lock the rudder during turbulence
or use my feet. Need more experimentation in this situation.
The original design is pictured in the attachment and I got it about
right. After these pics were taken I replaced the Nylox nut with a AN3
anchor nut (AN366F style probably best) to adjust the clamp loose cable
tension without removing the tunnel cover. Also, I reduced the outboard
nylon block thickness to 3/8" to route the cable around the fuel
selector switch. Probably should have been 5/16". The knob is a Reid
Supply Co p/n KA-1. Clamp the two nylon blocks together and drill an
1/8" hole through the mating surface. Then mill the thick block with the
half hole surface down .015 to .020. This will create a rocking motion
with the cable as its fulcrum to create the pinching force.
The pedal force will be heavier than the incredibly light stock
version by maybe two times due to the drag of the fairlead. After 3 or 4
flights it is not noticable because the nylon fairlead begins to smooth
out and the mind does adapt.
Thanks to John Jessen, John Cox, Rob & Jenny Hickman and others for a
delightful afternoon. Of course, its always a good day when I see Deems.
Bill and Sara DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Tech Rudder Trim |
I wouldn't discard the idea/design too soon. Bill and I also discussed
the 'locking' issue. He's well aware of it. I believe he said that in
his admittedly limited experience flying with it, that he felt that the
ability to 'unlock' the control was so direct and immediate as to make
it less of a risk/concern for him. Additionally, I would expect that
after your plane is tested and rigged the need for variable rudder trim
only occurs during limited portions of the flight. reducing (but NOT
eliminating the risk factor). I suppose it to be similar to the
friction lock on the throttle. Electrically activated trim systems also
have a risk factor associated with runaway.
Now with that said, I'm sure there are those that will still be
uncomfortable with a 'locked' control. There are at least to viable
spring biased designs I've seen, (Al Gardners & Jason Kreidler plus the
'Vic Syracuse solution. I'm only speculating, but _conceptually_ I
believe that it should be possible to work with Bill's design to achieve
a variable clamping force sufficient to hold the desired amount of trim,
and still allow for some 'breakout force' to overcome the friction.
During our discussion Bill mentioned that he had machined/fabricated a
slightly curved surface between the to clamp halves to act in somewhat
of a rocker fashion to enable the clamping action. It may mean
experimenting with some different clamping material, and different
amounts of 'curve'. Another idea would be to incorporate a compression
spring on the end of the other bolt and nut. Some epxerimenting with the
size and strength of the spring would be required, but it would allow
for the clamp to 'float' under variable pressure????????? I've got to
believe that the right combination of materials and camber would allow
for setting enough friction to hold the desired trim and still override
if necessary. Anybody got any suggestions? I also believe that the use
of a finer thread on the control knob may allow for more precise control
of the clamping pressure.
My 2 cents.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Tech Rudder Trim |
There is a certain minimalist elegance to this that frees up the brain
cells a bit. I'm thinking of it as a gust lock for a personal,
experimental aircraft that happens to work quite well as an ad hoc
rudder trim. The '10 does need a gust lock it seems...
We've got a floppy rudder that needs a lock and a trimmer. Hmmmm. I
think I'm going to tear the floorboards out of the Maule and take a look
at it's trim system just for grins.
Bill "door bonding" Watson
Durham NC
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> After showing Deems this setup at a great RV-10 NW dinner and flying a
> while to prove its worth I am ready to go public. I thought of several
> complex designs using spring bias and scrapped them all due to various
> reasons.
>
> Lets start with two statements. First, the proper engineering solution
> is cutting into the rudder and installing a servo and a small trailing
> tab. This approach has a built-in failsafe in that the rudder pedals
> can always override the rudder trim. Secondly, I expect my idea to be
> rejected many in the list because it will be judged as crude,
> however, a simple design can be elegant in its simplicity.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brake line question |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks, I got it. The problem was the nutplates get blocked by the main spar and
prevent sliding the piece fore and aft. You have to flex it to get it out.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182809#182809
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Tech Rudder Trim |
Many of you folks have the same concern as I have with this implementation. Yet
I made this modification to our RV-10 to observe the good and bad things and
hopefully design out the bad in the next revision. So far, its worked better than
I anticipated and other unforseen good features have arisen. When this happens
I get encouraged.
A few comments:
Only one screw needs to be tightened during cruise. The clamp is not used for
climbing nor decending.
I carefully choose a strong metal star wheel with deep tangs that fit my fingers
to apply force if necessary. The range between tight and loose is approximately
1.5 turns and in a normal cockpit situation I tighten or release it in just
under 3 seconds.
I have not determined if the screw can be tightened such that the rudder will
not move and still be overridden by the pedals.
I am very interested in Bill Watson's investigation of his Maule, as it has a
rudder locking mechanism of some sort.
The RV10 may roll like the RV7 or 8. My guys tell me they routinely perform acrobatics
with their feet on the floor so I wonder how much of the rudder would
be actually needed with turbulence. I keep my feet on the pedals during turbulence
but don't know if I really need the rudder.
Lets use our energy to address the main issue and add pilot override into the
design. Revision B could be designed with an automatic slip or limited tension
or something else I have not thought of. This is where knowledgable people
and good thinking can work.
I will pursue this with or without the Matronics folks. For me, experimental
is fun. Thanks for the comments and cares. I am not a wild man and do care about
my health, my passengers health and everyone flying.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
MauleDriver wrote:
There is a certain minimalist elegance to this that frees up the brain
cells a bit. I'm thinking of it as a gust lock for a personal,
experimental aircraft that happens to work quite well as an ad hoc
rudder trim. The '10 does need a gust lock it seems...
We've got a floppy rudder that needs a lock and a trimmer. Hmmmm. I
think I'm going to tear the floorboards out of the Maule and take a look
at it's trim system just for grins.
Bill "door bonding" Watson
Durham NC
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> After showing Deems this setup at a great RV-10 NW dinner and flying a
> while to prove its worth I am ready to go public. I thought of several
> complex designs using spring bias and scrapped them all due to various
> reasons.
>
> Lets start with two statements. First, the proper engineering solution
> is cutting into the rudder and installing a servo and a small trailing
> tab. This approach has a built-in failsafe in that the rudder pedals
> can always override the rudder trim. Secondly, I expect my idea to be
> rejected many in the list because it will be judged as crude,
> however, a simple design can be elegant in its simplicity.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Low Tech Rudder Trim |
This solution would never be approved in the certified world so why would we
consider it in the experimental? Vic is correct that the proper way to do it
is the electric trim in the rudder if you have to be able to fly at all
times with your feet flat on the floor. If you can accept using your feet
during takeoff and climb and during descent and landing then a fixed tab
riveted to the rudder trailing edge will do the job at your standard cruise
airspeed. If you want to be driver try a ferrari or a jet, airplane pilots
use their feet. We have settled on the rudder fixed trim tab.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Tech Rudder Trim
I wouldn't discard the idea/design too soon. Bill and I also discussed the
'locking' issue. He's well aware of it. I believe he said that in his
admittedly limited experience flying with it, that he felt that the ability
to 'unlock' the control was so direct and immediate as to make it less of a
risk/concern for him. Additionally, I would expect that after your plane is
tested and rigged the need for variable rudder trim only occurs during
limited portions of the flight. reducing (but NOT eliminating the risk
factor). I suppose it to be similar to the friction lock on the throttle.
Electrically activated trim systems also have a risk factor associated with
runaway.
Now with that said, I'm sure there are those that will still be
uncomfortable with a 'locked' control. There are at least to viable spring
biased designs I've seen, (Al Gardners & Jason Kreidler plus the 'Vic
Syracuse solution. I'm only speculating, but _conceptually_ I believe that
it should be possible to work with Bill's design to achieve a variable
clamping force sufficient to hold the desired amount of trim, and still
allow for some 'breakout force' to overcome the friction.
During our discussion Bill mentioned that he had machined/fabricated a
slightly curved surface between the to clamp halves to act in somewhat of a
rocker fashion to enable the clamping action. It may mean experimenting with
some different clamping material, and different amounts of 'curve'. Another
idea would be to incorporate a compression spring on the end of the other
bolt and nut. Some epxerimenting with the size and strength of the spring
would be required, but it would allow for the clamp to 'float' under
variable pressure????????? I've got to believe that the right combination
of materials and camber would allow for setting enough friction to hold the
desired trim and still override if necessary. Anybody got any suggestions?
I also believe that the use of a finer thread on the control knob may allow
for more precise control of the clamping pressure.
My 2 cents.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NW Builder Dinner |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
In addition to Tim James exciting VSTOL RV-10 with VGs, bush tires, dual
puck brake calipers and other mods like his Chrome Moly Roll Bar, Paul
Grimstad brought his re-engineered and ready to move Rudder Pedal Kit.
those beauties bolt right up and allow a direct change-out of the VANS
(right down to the ole Matco cylinders). No more rats nest or spider
web of ugly brake cables and fluid lines. the cables never leave the
tunnel. the fluid lines are forward of your feet. Take a look at those
pedals "RV 10".
I would have made another mod to the Grove cylinders but then I never
stop tinkering with what is for many of you an already Great Kit. Here
is a picture I stole while they were sleeping on Rob's bench. I believe
they are reserved for Deems/
John Cox
#600
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Tech Rudder Trim |
One other note about the worries of runaway trim with a servo controlled
trim tab.... If you build the tab as Vic did, it's very unlikely that
you'll get enough force and deflection to do anything but adjust the
trim....and if it ran away on you, it would be very easy to hold pedal
pressure against full out-of-trim. This is a huge contrast to the
elevator, where you may not be able to hold the plane in control if
you had runaway elevator trim. A plain old bendable trim tab, or
tapered block is an acceptable basic trim alternate for those who
are squeamish of doing anything to the rudder. And, rudder gust locks
are cheap and easy to fashion.
Regarding locking the rudder in place....keep in mind the extent at
which some people even argue against using a seatbelt as an elevator
gust lock....and the not-too-far in the past crash at a flyin that
happened because someone "forgot" to remove the belt. I'd really
hate to see someone rolling down the runway in a crosswind or even
just taxiing in a row of planes, and suddenly realize that they have
their pedals locked. But, to each his own I guess...we're allowed to
build to a higher or lower standard of safety as we see fit. At
least there are options.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
>
> This solution would never be approved in the certified world so why would we
> consider it in the experimental? Vic is correct that the proper way to do it
> is the electric trim in the rudder if you have to be able to fly at all
> times with your feet flat on the floor. If you can accept using your feet
> during takeoff and climb and during descent and landing then a fixed tab
> riveted to the rudder trailing edge will do the job at your standard cruise
> airspeed. If you want to be driver try a ferrari or a jet, airplane pilots
> use their feet. We have settled on the rudder fixed trim tab.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
Did anyone have to adjust the low pitch stop on the prop from Van's to get
the 2700 RPM? or was the entire adjustment in the governor?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
David,
I don't know if this will help but this was the response I got from MT about setting
the governor and low speed RPM.
Rick Sked
40185
"All P-860-( ) governors are basically the same. The - ( ) number only refers
to the control arm position and the max. rpm of the governor. To change the
control arm, loosen the 6 screws, turn the entire center portion to the
desired position, tighten the 6 screws and safety.
To change max rpm the set screw on the high rpm stop is turned
counterclockwise (out) to increase rpm and clockwise (in) to decrease rpm.
If there is not enough adjustment possible ( 1 turn = 25 rpm) the control
arm must be reset on the spline one notch at the time.
All this can be done on the plane.
To have MT Propeller USA, Inc. modify the governor max. rpm would cost
approx. $100.00, unfortunately the control arm position must be adjusted on
the plane"
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:55:37 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
| From: | jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com |
A few response rolled into one.
"so why not a small jackscrew instead of a trim servo?"
If I could find something light, inexpensive, and simple, it would
certainly be an option. Anyone have a source?
"What kinds of problems have been seen with the glued tab or the riveted
tab other than it has only a cruise airspeed setting?"
Absolutely no problems at all, rudder trim may not be high on some lists,
but it is on mine. The fixed trim offers great benefit (extremely
simple), at of course a price (fixed trim). I know others have decided
not to install trim, still others have cut into a perfectly good painted
rudder to add trim. Like any option it is a personal choice.
"Since servo force required is an issue, have you considered a totally
manual/mechanical system?"
Yes, just haven't found a cute, light way of doing it. However, electric
means it can be buried in any orientation at any location, opening up more
mounting options. A manual system would be a real benefit, as I know a
few are looking for a manual system.
"I think this could be made to work in the same way that my garage door
tensioner works."
This would be an great approach, the question is where to get something
like this?
The great thing about sharing ideas is the collaboration. Many of us have
obviously been thinking of different approaches to this 'problem'. In
looking over Bill DeRouchey's approach I got to thinking...
I think the secret to making this really simple is to start with a
completely closed loop system. So what would happen if we mounted a
pulley to the firewall centered between the left and right rudder pedals
on either the pilot or copilot side of the aircraft. Then connect a cable
to the two pedals routed through the pulley. This gets us a closed loop
system.
Next we use Bill's concept, with a few changes. Since we now have a
closed loop, we only need to act on one of the rudder cables. So instead
of clamping the cable, we clamp two springs to the cable (about 12 inches
apart), these two springs are then hooked in the middle to the knob that
passes through the tunnel wall. The tunnel wall is slotted, allowing the
knob to move fore and aft. So to adjust the trim you would loosen the
knob slide it back until you center the ball, then re-tighten the knob.
The springs would still allow full use of the rudder, and the world is in
perfect harmony. Well, at least the ball is in the center.
I wonder if the cable needs to be supported between the springs, I keep
thinking that the springs would just want to pull together leaving the
cable slack between the springs. Maybe since the system is now closed,
the two trim springs would act as a 'slack take-up'. Also, not sure if
there is enough room to fit the forward spring, and still keep the knob
where it can be reached.
What I like is the fact that we can now have either manual or electric
trim. In addition this certainly meets the simple, and relatively easy to
install criteria. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - #40617 - Finishing
4 Partner Build
Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, and Wayne Elsner
Sheboygan Falls, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Low Tech Rudder Trim |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi
A few weeks ago I read some posts about the people at vans who load customer
trailers for "will call" orders.
Last Friday I pick up my QB wings and finish kit. As suggested by Vans's, I
rented a U-Haul (these have side rails which are very important) and 3 dozen
packing pads. Brian loaded the wings and tied them off to the side rails and
then placed a very long large crate between the wings. He did an amazing job
of securing the crate so that that did not move whatsoever during the 1,100
mile trip home. After I saw how he secured the load, I was sure there would
be no problems.
I got home yesterday and unloaded the U-Haul and found that everything was
in perfect condition.
I just want to echo the earlier posts sentiment that the guys who load our
crates and truck do a fabulous job and take great pride in their work. When
I was chatting with Brian, he mentioned that he packs most of the difficult
crates (fuse kits) and is always looking to find better ways to get the job
done. You just have to love dealing with people like this.
Kudos to the shipping team at Van's!!
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - Now with a lot more parts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California |
Well I am about to pull the trigger and order a RV 10 Tail kit. But I would
really like to see one in person and possible get a flight in one, before I
commit to the project.
I am currently flying a Citabria and Saratoga out of the Nut Tree Airport In
Vacaville Ca. So I am able to travel to visit.
Your welcome to contact me off list of you like.
Thanks
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California |
| From: | pilotdds(at)aol.com |
I am at SCK contact at pilotdds(at)aol.com-working on #2??????????????? 728DD-175hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: John Cumins <jcumins(at)jcis.net>
Sent: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:18 am
Subject: RV10-List: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California
Well I am about to pull the trigger and order a RV 10 Tail kit.? But I would really
like to see one in person and possible get a flight in one, before I commit
to the project.
?
I am currently flying a Citabria and Saratoga out of the Nut Tree Airport In Vacaville
Ca. So I am able to travel to visit.
?
Your welcome to contact me off list of you like.
?
Thanks
?
John G. Cumins
President
?
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
?
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | NW RV-10 Builders and Flyers Dinner |
John and others have mentioned our recent RV-10 dinner. Here is a picture
of the whole group who attended the NW RV-10 Builders and Flyers Dinner last
Saturday, the 10th. We had 6 completed RV-10's on hand, and close to 50
people show up. Getting bigger each time.
A huge thank-you to the Hickman's (Rob, Jenny and family) for hosting this
event. Wonderful folks.
I will put together a write up and more pictures in a few days.
John Jessen
40328
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NW Builder Dinner
In addition to Tim James exciting VSTOL RV-10 with VGs, bush tires, dual
puck brake calipers and other mods like his Chrome Moly Roll Bar, Paul
Grimstad brought his re-engineered and ready to move Rudder Pedal Kit.
those beauties bolt right up and allow a direct change-out of the VANS
(right down to the ole Matco cylinders). No more rats nest or spider web of
ugly brake cables and fluid lines. the cables never leave the tunnel. the
fluid lines are forward of your feet. Take a look at those pedals "RV 10".
I would have made another mod to the Grove cylinders but then I never stop
tinkering with what is for many of you an already Great Kit. Here is a
picture I stole while they were sleeping on Rob's bench. I believe they are
reserved for Deems/
John Cox
#600
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
If memory serves me right I was only getting 2500 RPM. I had to reset my
arm one spline. I made a reference mark, took the screw adjustment up to
close to the reference mark, and then screwed it out each flight, until
I got to the desired RPM.
Dave Emond
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Sked
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
David,
I don't know if this will help but this was the response I got from MT
about setting the governor and low speed RPM.
Rick Sked
40185
"All P-860-( ) governors are basically the same. The - ( ) number only
refers
to the control arm position and the max. rpm of the governor. To
change the
control arm, loosen the 6 screws, turn the entire center portion to
the
desired position, tighten the 6 screws and safety.
To change max rpm the set screw on the high rpm stop is turned
counterclockwise (out) to increase rpm and clockwise (in) to decrease
rpm.
If there is not enough adjustment possible ( 1 turn = 25 rpm) the
control
arm must be reset on the spline one notch at the time.
All this can be done on the plane.
To have MT Propeller USA, Inc. modify the governor max. rpm would cost
approx. $100.00, unfortunately the control arm position must be
adjusted on
the plane"
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:55:37 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
Did anyone have to adjust the low pitch stop on the prop from Van's to
get the 2700 RPM? or was the entire adjustment in the governor?
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California |
John,
There are three flying here at Watsonville. Give me a call, I'd be happy to
show you around.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:19 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California
Well I am about to pull the trigger and order a RV 10 Tail kit. But I would
really like to see one in person and possible get a flight in one, before I
commit to the project.
I am currently flying a Citabria and Saratoga out of the Nut Tree Airport In
Vacaville Ca. So I am able to travel to visit.
Your welcome to contact me off list of you like.
Thanks
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California |
Dave
Thanks for the offer I just might take you up on it.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern
California
John,
There are three flying here at Watsonville. Give me a call, I'd be happy to
show you around.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:19 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California
Well I am about to pull the trigger and order a RV 10 Tail kit. But I would
really like to see one in person and possible get a flight in one, before I
commit to the project.
I am currently flying a Citabria and Saratoga out of the Nut Tree Airport In
Vacaville Ca. So I am able to travel to visit.
Your welcome to contact me off list of you like.
Thanks
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California |
Come to Ogden Utah and I will give you a ride as long as you don't comment
about my piloting skills...my unfinished airplane...or my heritage. But, I
think you might be able to find something closer...
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California
Well I am about to pull the trigger and order a RV 10 Tail kit. But I would
really like to see one in person and possible get a flight in one, before I
commit to the project.
I am currently flying a Citabria and Saratoga out of the Nut Tree Airport In
Vacaville Ca. So I am able to travel to visit.
Your welcome to contact me off list of you like.
Thanks
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California |
Rene'
I was just in Salt lake last week. I work with a software company there.
If I make it back there this summer I will look you up that's for sure.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern
California
Come to Ogden Utah and I will give you a ride as long as you don't comment
about my piloting skills...my unfinished airplane...or my heritage. But, I
think you might be able to find something closer...
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Any rv-10 flying or being built in Northern California
Well I am about to pull the trigger and order a RV 10 Tail kit. But I would
really like to see one in person and possible get a flight in one, before I
commit to the project.
I am currently flying a Citabria and Saratoga out of the Nut Tree Airport In
Vacaville Ca. So I am able to travel to visit.
Your welcome to contact me off list of you like.
Thanks
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Low Tech Rudder Trim |
All-
Just thinking overnight about the major issue of breaking force. Intuitively
it seems very solvable.
I have already installed a small trim tab on my rudder set to cruise. As all
those flying know with the weight shifting around, differential elevator trim
trying to roll the plane when the tab trailing edges are at different height,
nose wheel not centered - these create differences that only a variable trim can
solve. But once a fixed trim tab is set to cruise then the forces necessary
to center the ball are fairly light compared to a leg on the pedal. In my experience
the force necessary to move the ball 75% of the ball diameter would be
sufficient.
It would seem that replacing the big screw with an over the center lever retracting
a rod with an adjustable spring that pulls the blocks together would do
the trick. It needs some experimenting to get the pull distance and spring style
correct. The downside is we give up the gust lock feature.
Jason may be able to add to the implementation with his single point concept
which reduces my approach to one lever.
Given no better ideas at this point, this is the direction I will pursue for
Revision B.
Others are welcome to purchase a block of nylon and give it a go!
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
| From: | "raddatz" <n667sr(at)comcast.net> |
I believe all the 10's I built where around 2550-2600 out of the box, I just mark
the arm and shaft and move the arm one spline.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183043#183043
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N46007 Phase I complete |
Congrats! Don't forget to make your logbook entry per Operating Limitation
s.
Anh
N591VU-flying
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N46007 Phase I complete
N46007 completed Phase one this morning; CHTs are settling; now all betwe
en 340-380 at low cruise (130 KIAS) I would expect that there will be furth
er cooling for a given power setting when we get the wheel pants and leg fa
irings installed. I would expect another 10 KIAS at least for a given power
setting. Have leaned EGTs to the 1350-11400 range and have fuel flow down
in the 11-12 gph range. The injectors seem to pretty evenly matched as the
EGT range for a given setting is less than 20 degrees. Will have to re-inde
x the prop governor arm as do not get more than 2600 rpm at any time. Alrea
dy tried adjusting the low pitch stop on the prop. Plan to place some insul
ation on the lower cowl to prevent deliberation from exhaust heat radiation
Do not have a hot tunnel at all. attribute this to good sealing (with baf
fling material and rtv) of the cabin heat valves. Full flap landings at for
ward CG require a good pull on the stick unless there is a lot of up trim a
lready set. Largest direct crosswind encountered was 10 kts. Landing was fi
ne with 1/3 flaps and 65 KIAS on short final at 2300 lbs. Standard wing dow
n into the crosswind and rudder the aircraft straight down the runway. Chel
ton system is impressive; HITS provides guidance for the complete approach
procedure; will update the databases and software next week. Trutrak AP han
dy but the Cheltons are easy to hand fly precisely. I have the TT 2.2 softw
are and need an upgrade to 2.24 for the VNAV stuff to work properly. I did
find that the magnetometer in the DigiFlite II is not useful. After calibra
tion it is still off the Cheltons and the GRT by 10-15 degrees. Floscan tra
nsducer is very accurate; I adjusted my calibration value in the GRT EIS600
0 down from 200 to 178. I now find that the agreement between amount used a
nd actual is less than .2 gallon and this may be due to how closely I fill
the tanks. The GRT Sport backup EFIS is usually set to map (XM weather) for
flight but is on the engine page for start. With the dual battery setup al
l the avionics are perking about 2 minutes before start. They are disconnec
ted from the starting primary bus. One thing I would suggest is that the AP
should be on a toggle breaker. mine is pullable. I initially was told by t
he TT staff that starting with the AP on would not be a problem on that bus
; reading there documentation suggest a different story. The truth is somew
here between. The Trutrak AP can be ON when the aircraft is started but the
initialization sequence should be complete. Will post more later.Perhaps a
fter a trip to the paint shop and a re-weighing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speckter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Air Compressor size |
There has been much discussion about what compressor to use on this list. Today
I toured the Boeing plant and saw their main Air line. It was 10 inches in
Diameter. Just what size compressor does it take to drive that baby.
Great tour. No I didn't get any samples.
Gary
40274
There has been much discussion about what compressor to use on this list.
Today I toured the Boeing plant and saw their main Air line. It
was 10 inches in Diameter. Just what size compressor does it take to drive
that baby.
Great tour. No I didn't get any samples.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pascal" <pascal(at)rv10builder.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor size |
I think it's a surplus 747-800 engine.
I took the tour once thinking I would learn something about building,
other than a whole lot of people staring at things I didn't learn much,
now in hind sight I find I myself do a whole lot of staring at things
too. Maybe I did learn something on that tour afterall.
Pascal
From: speckter(at)comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Air Compressor size
There has been much discussion about what compressor to use on this
list. Today I toured the Boeing plant and saw their main Air line. It
was 10 inches in Diameter. Just what size compressor does it take to
drive that baby.
Great tour. No I didn't get any samples.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I second the kudos - they do an awesome job and are very pleasant.
I forgot my ropes at home and they even supplied ropes (no charge)
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Hint to the will call folks - drive slow and the vans get dramatically better fuel
economy
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183052#183052
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | N46007 Phase I complete |
Having an A&P and CFII I am well aware that the job is not done until the
paperwork is correct. Thanks.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N46007 Phase I complete
Congrats! Don't forget to make your logbook entry per Operating
Limitations.
Anh
N591VU-flying
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill <mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N46007 Phase I complete
N46007 completed Phase one this morning; CHTs are settling; now all between
340-380 at low cruise (130 KIAS) I would expect that there will be further
cooling for a given power setting when we get the wheel pants and leg
fairings installed. I would expect another 10 KIAS at least for a given
power setting. Have leaned EGTs to the 1350-11400 range and have fuel flow
down in the 11-12 gph range. The injectors seem to pretty evenly matched as
the EGT range for a given setting is less than 20 degrees. Will have to
re-index the prop governor arm as do not get more than 2600 rpm at any time.
Already tried adjusting the low pitch stop on the prop. Plan to place some
insulation on the lower cowl to prevent deliberation from exhaust heat
radiation. Do not have a hot tunnel at all. attribute this to good sealing
(with baffling material and rtv) of the cabin heat valves. Full flap
landings at forward CG require a good pull on the stick unless there is a
lot of up trim already set. Largest direct crosswind encountered was 10 kts.
Landing was fine with 1/3 flaps and 65 KIAS on short final at 2300 lbs.
Standard wing down into the crosswind and rudder the aircraft straight down
the runway. Chelton system is impressive; HITS provides guidance for the
complete approach procedure; will update the databases and software next
week. Trutrak AP handy but the Cheltons are easy to hand fly precisely. I
have the TT 2.2 software and need an upgrade to 2.24 for the VNAV stuff to
work properly. I did find that the magnetometer in the DigiFlite II is not
useful. After calibration it is still off the Cheltons and the GRT by 10-15
degrees. Floscan transducer is very accurate; I adjusted my calibration
value in the GRT EIS6000 down from 200 to 178. I now find that the agreement
between amount used and actual is less than .2 gallon and this may be due to
how closely I fill the tanks. The GRT Sport backup EFIS is usually set to
map (XM weather) for flight but is on the engine page for start. With the
dual battery setup all the avionics are perking about 2 minutes before
start. They are disconnected from the starting primary bus One thing I would
suggest is that the AP should be on a toggle breaker. mine is pullable. I
initially was told by the TT staff that starting with the AP on would not be
a problem on that bus; reading there documentation suggest a different
story. The truth is somewhere between. The Trutrak AP can be ON when the
aircraft is started but the initialization sequence should be complete. Will
post more later.Perhaps after a trip to the paint shop and a re-weighing.
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ics.com
matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ailereon Bellcrank bolt - safety note |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I just finished fitting out the aileron bellcrank assembly (rt wing) for the TruTrak
autopilot. With the TruTrak bracket mounted which doubles the metal on
the top of the bellcrank bracket. (See pg 23-4) I find that the AN4-32A bolt
is too short to catch the nylock part of the #4 bolt.
I checked the bolt scale supplied by vans and it seems that a AN4-33A
should give enough thread to catch the Nylock part of the bolt threads.
It is interesting that TruTrak did not mention this in their excellent installation
diagrams. Has anyone else had the same issue? It would be disastrous to
loose this bolt in flight.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183055#183055
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi
Another hint - avoid ethanol gas blends - I found I took a big gas mileage
hit when I filled up with an E10 blend.
Using a 17' U-Hail I was told to expect 12mpg. This is what I got even when
in the mountains after the E10 was burned off. I was driving 60mph+ for the
1,100 miles back to Edmonton. Going slower was not an option.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: May-13-08 9:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Kudos
I second the kudos - they do an awesome job and are very pleasant.
I forgot my ropes at home and they even supplied ropes (no charge)
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Hint to the will call folks - drive slow and the vans get dramatically
better fuel economy
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Ready to exit cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183052#183052
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
| From: | lessdragprod(at)aol.com |
If Van's Aircraft sold the P-860-5 governor for the wide deck Lycoming IO-540 engine,
you wouldn't even be having this discussion.
The P-860-3 governor is for the narrow deck Lycoming IO-540 engine, which has a
different gear ratio to the front mounted governor.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
-----Original Message-----
From: raddatz <n667sr(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, 13 May 2008 7:12 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
I believe all the 10's I built where around 2550-2600 out of the box, I just
mark the arm and shaft and move the arm one spline.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183043#183043
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
Yup.....Jim has the correct info in that!! No surprise. Curious.....How man
y narrow decks are out there?...ummmm NOT MANY!!=C2- It's a Dutch think I
think, and an ignorance thing on us builders...not so ignorant now though.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:36:52 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
If Van's Aircraft sold the P-860-5 governor for the wide deck Lycoming IO-5
40 engine, you wouldn't even be having this discussion.
The P-860-3 governor is for the narrow deck Lycoming IO-540 engine, which h
as a different gear ratio to the front mounted governor.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
-----Original Message-----
From: raddatz <n667sr(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, 13 May 2008 7:12 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
all the 10's I built where around 2550-2600 out of the box, I just mark th
e arm and shaft and move the arm one spline. Read this topic online here: h
ttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183043#183043
=================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Tech Rudder Trim |
Bill, you might consider a material that has a bit less grip than
nylon, such as Delrin. Another idea would be to have one side of the
block covered with leather, that would reduce the grip, but provide
sufficient friction.
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Bill DeRouchey wrote:
>
> All-
> Just thinking overnight about the major issue of breaking force. Intuitively
> it seems very solvable.
>
> I have already installed a small trim tab on my rudder set to cruise. As all
> those flying know with the weight shifting around, differential elevator
> trim trying to roll the plane when the tab trailing edges are at different
> height, nose wheel not centered - these create differences that only a
> variable trim can solve. But once a fixed trim tab is set to cruise then the
> forces necessary to center the ball are fairly light compared to a leg on
> the pedal. In my experience the force necessary to move the ball 75% of the
> ball diameter would be sufficient.
>
> It would seem that replacing the big screw with an over the center lever
> retracting a rod with an adjustable spring that pulls the blocks together
> would do the trick. It needs some experimenting to get the pull distance and
> spring style correct. The downside is we give up the gust lock feature.
>
> Jason may be able to add to the implementation with his single point concept
> which reduces my approach to one lever.
>
> Given no better ideas at this point, this is the direction I will pursue for
> Revision B.
>
> Others are welcome to purchase a block of nylon and give it a go!
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB, flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Jacksonville Florida |
Is anybody on the list living in the Jacksonville, Florida area? I
will be at Amelia Island for a seminar June 8-9-10. Seminar looks like
it is over about 1 pm each day. If anybody needs a helping hand or
wants to share tall tales send me an email. Sure would beat sitting
around doing nothing at a beautiful resort......
Fred Williams
drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Grimstad" <Bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Trim Question |
NW Builder DinnerMy friend John Hilger in Bend Or. sent an email
suggesting that we should come up with an addition to the rudder pedal
system we have designed. Thanks to John we are now considering two
optional features. First, a gust lock that will work for the pedals and
stick, and the second an effective servo adjustable rudder trim. We have
two concepts under consideration, however we need some help from flying
RV10's.
We need to determine the amount of pedal pressure required by a clean
rudder without trim tab in level flight. We are assuming 3 to 5 lbs. How
can this be measured?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450
Portland, Or.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cox
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NW Builder Dinner
In addition to Tim James exciting VSTOL RV-10 with VGs, bush tires,
dual puck brake calipers and other mods like his Chrome Moly Roll Bar,
Paul Grimstad brought his re-engineered and ready to move Rudder Pedal
Kit. those beauties bolt right up and allow a direct change-out of the
VANS (right down to the ole Matco cylinders). No more rats nest or
spider web of ugly brake cables and fluid lines. the cables never leave
the tunnel. the fluid lines are forward of your feet. Take a look at
those pedals "RV 10".
I would have made another mod to the Grove cylinders but then I never
stop tinkering with what is for many of you an already Great Kit. Here
is a picture I stole while they were sleeping on Rob's bench. I believe
they are reserved for Deems/
John Cox
#600
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Trim Question |
Hi Paul,
It was great meeting you last Saturday. While not yet flying the following
email excerpt may help.
Vern Smith (#324 finishing)
What trim force do you think you are getting? I had sent an e-mail to Vans
asking what input they thought would be required. They told me that a 5 t
o 10 pound force as measured at the bottom of the rudder pedal should take
care of any 'normal' trim, 25 pounds could be required to compensate for ta
keoff forces. I have been crunching numbers on the torsion spring bias syst
em that I had designed. I am having difficulty getting the required trim f
orce without overloading the trim servo motor, or limiting the travel too m
uch. A combination of the two systems may be just the ticket to realize th
e benefits of both. Again I really like the different approach, thanks for
sharing. Jason Kreidler - #406174 Partner Build - Finishing
From: Bldgrv10450(at)comcast.netTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV10-List:
Rudder Trim QuestionDate: Wed, 14 May 2008 07:16:27 -0700
My friend John Hilger in Bend Or. sent an email suggesting that we should c
ome up with an addition to the rudder pedal system we have designed. Thanks
to John we are now considering two optional features. First, a gust lock t
hat will work for the pedals and stick, and the second an effective servo a
djustable rudder trim. We have two concepts under consideration, however we
need some help from flying RV10's.
We need to determine the amount of pedal pressure required by a clean rudde
r without trim tab in level flight. We are assuming 3 to 5 lbs. How can thi
s be measured?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450
Portland, Or.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cox
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NW Builder Dinner
In addition to Tim James exciting VSTOL RV-10 with VGs, bush tires, dual pu
ck brake calipers and other mods like his Chrome Moly Roll Bar, Paul Grimst
ad brought his re-engineered and ready to move Rudder Pedal Kit. those bea
uties bolt right up and allow a direct change-out of the VANS (right down t
o the ole Matco cylinders). No more rats nest or spider web of ugly brake
cables and fluid lines. the cables never leave the tunnel. the fluid line
s are forward of your feet. Take a look at those pedals "RV 10".
I would have made another mod to the Grove cylinders but then I never stop
tinkering with what is for many of you an already Great Kit. Here is a pic
ture I stole while they were sleeping on Rob's bench. I believe they are r
eserved for Deems/
John Cox
#600
<>
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr
esh_messenger_052008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Question |
Paul-
I would suggest that you keep the clamping rudder trim concept on the table and
compare it with a servo setup. It works very well and you can easily design it
with a breakaway force allowing override from the pedals. I can get away with
a "personal" big screw setup that has an "iffy" override but to be offered to
the general public it must have the override feature.
The obvious advantage is the clamping approach is simplier with less expensive
manufacturers cost. The not so apparent advantage is it fuctions with much less
force.
A servo implementation needs force to move the rudder and overcome friction in
the cable system. The clamping design uses the friction to help hold the rudder.
Difference in forces required is two times the friction.
I can see where the gust lock fits well with the pedals but its a little harder
to visualize the rudder trim. If you want to spin the rudder trim off as a seperate
product take a look at the work I have accomplished. It needs a few more
parts to add a breakaway feature and I think a builder would rather buy than
build.
Good Luck,
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
Paul Grimstad wrote:NW Builder Dinner My friend
John Hilger in Bend Or. sent an email suggesting that we should come up with
an addition to the rudder pedal system we have designed. Thanks to John we are
now considering two optional features. First, a gust lock that will work
for the pedals and stick, and the second an effective servo adjustable rudder
trim. We have two concepts under consideration, however we need some help from
flying RV10's.
We need to determine the amount of pedal pressure required by a clean rudder
without trim tab in level flight. We are assuming 3 to 5 lbs. How can this be
measured?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450
Portland, Or.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cox
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: NW Builder Dinner
In addition to Tim James exciting VSTOL RV-10 with VGs, bush tires, dual puck
brake calipers and other mods like his Chrome Moly Roll Bar, Paul Grimstad
brought his re-engineered and ready to move Rudder Pedal Kit. those beauties
bolt right up and allow a direct change-out of the VANS (right down
to the ole Matco cylinders). No more rats nest or spider web of ugly brake
cables and fluid lines. the cables never leave the tunnel. the fluid lines
are forward of your feet. Take a look at those pedals "RV 10".
I would have made another mod to the Grove cylinders but then I never stop
tinkering with what is for many of you an already Great Kit. Here is a picture
I stole while they were sleeping on Rob's bench. I believe they are
reserved for Deems/
John Cox
#600
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Compressor size |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
It's a worm drive. A whole bigger league.
John
40600
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
speckter(at)comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Air Compressor size
There has been much discussion about what compressor to use on this
list. Today I toured the Boeing plant and saw their main Air line. It
was 10 inches in Diameter. Just what size compressor does it take to
drive that baby.
Great tour. No I didn't get any samples.
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | linear actuator for rudder trim |
Well, as promised ..... between forest fires .... I googled for
jackscrews. I started with '12 V jackscrew' and got all kinds of weird
stuff .... so went to '12V linear' and hit paydirt. There are a lot of
sources out there. The price isn't bad if you consider a Ray Allen trim
servo is $145!!!!
http://www.route66supply.com/store/page26.html in the $120+ range
http://productsearch.machinedesign.com/mdproducts/12v_linear_actuator
has listings for 515 companies, and no, I didn't check them out.
http://www.servocity.com/html/12v_linear_actuators.html has them for
$100 .... max speed .5"/sec.
or look here:
http://www.dcactuators.com/
I think that with the linear actuator and the torsion spring concept
..... there's a very good solution to the rudder trim scenario.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fixitauto(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Question |
Hey Paul....It's Two foot punds right? one on each pedal? :)
Rick Sked
40185
I think I now know where jAmEs McClow is hiding out.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ailereon Bellcrank bolt - safety note |
I just used the size which fit the best. I do remember possibly needing a
longer bolt somewhere around there. You are the A&P for your airplane,
build it the best way you see fit ;-)
Dave Leikam
#40496 N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Ailereon Bellcrank bolt - safety note
>
> I just finished fitting out the aileron bellcrank assembly (rt wing) for
> the TruTrak autopilot. With the TruTrak bracket mounted which doubles the
> metal on the top of the bellcrank bracket. (See pg 23-4) I find that the
> AN4-32A bolt is too short to catch the nylock part of the #4 bolt.
>
> I checked the bolt scale supplied by vans and it seems that a AN4-33A
> should give enough thread to catch the Nylock part of the bolt threads.
>
> It is interesting that TruTrak did not mention this in their excellent
> installation diagrams. Has anyone else had the same issue? It would be
> disastrous to loose this bolt in flight.
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183055#183055
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Dave Leikam wrote:
>
> We've been force fed 10%E in the Milwaukee area for a long time, it's junk.
I went from about 32 mpg with the "old" fuel to 30 mpg with the 10%
ethanol blend. And of course it costs more. What a bargain.
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
Jim:
Is re-indexing the arm on the govenor an as others have mentioned a
factory acceptable adjustment?
Thanks
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: lessdragprod(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
If Van's Aircraft sold the P-860-5 governor for the wide deck Lycoming
IO-540 engine, you wouldn't even be having this discussion.
The P-860-3 governor is for the narrow deck Lycoming IO-540 engine,
which has a different gear ratio to the front mounted governor.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
-----Original Message-----
From: raddatz <n667sr(at)comcast.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 13 May 2008 7:12 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
I believe all the 10's I built where around 2550-2600 out of the box, I
just
mark the arm and shaft and move the arm one spline.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183043#183043
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
Dick,
It is...Here as I posted before is the response from MT USA direct from their resident
expert and this guy really knows his stuff.
Rick Sked
40185
all P-860-( ) governors are basically the same. The - ( ) number only refers
to the control arm position and the max. rpm of the governor. To change the
control arm, loosen the 6 screws, turn the entire center portion to the
desired position, tighten the 6 screws and safety.
To change max rpm the set screw on the high rpm stop is turned
counterclockwise (out) to increase rpm and clockwise (in) to decrease rpm.
If there is not enough adjustment possible ( 1 turn = 25 rpm) the control
arm must be reset on the spline one notch at the time.
All this can be done on the plane.
To have MT Propeller USA, Inc. modify the governor max. rpm would cost
approx. $100.00, unfortunately the control arm position must be adjusted on
the plane
Best Regards,
Juergen Zahner
mt-propeller USA, Inc.
ph: 386-736-7762
fax: 386-736-7696
Juergen.Zahner@mt-propellerusa.com
www.mt-propellerusa.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 7:08:02 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
Jim:
Is re-indexing the arm on the govenor an as others have mentioned a factory acceptable
adjustment?
Thanks
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
If Van's Aircraft sold the P-860-5 governor for the wide deck Lycoming IO-540 engine,
you wouldn't even be having this discussion.
The P-860-3 governor is for the narrow deck Lycoming IO-540 engine, which has a
different gear ratio to the front mounted governor.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
-----Original Message-----
From: raddatz < n667sr(at)comcast.net >
Sent: Tue, 13 May 2008 7:12 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
I believe all the 10's I built where around 2550-2600 out of the box, I just
mark the arm and shaft and move the arm one spline.
Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183043#183043
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
I have been doing a little testing of my spring bias trim system. I did not
measure rudder pedal forces required but the spring bias system has almost
enough force on take off so that only a little right rudder pressure is
required and the same for slow flight. Otherwise for normal climb, cruise
and descents the trim system will center the ball. It was easy to install as
Vans aileron trim servo is used as is and 4 holes drilled in the bottom of
the tail cone to install it. The turn around pulley bracket is simple to
fabricate and bolts to the elevator bell crank housing assy. The hardest
part was pulling additional rudder cables from the trim servo arm back to
the rudder horn. Also, having 2 rudder cables attached to the rudder horn is
the one thing I don't like about the system. I already had a 5 wire cable
installed in the tail come anticipating rudder trim at some later point when
I built the plane and a Ray Allen LED trim indicator and switch on the panel
with wiring completed. The trim forces are fairly easy to overcome so run
away trim doesn't seem to be a big worry. All in all I'm very happy with the
system. Frankly, the idea of clamping the rudder cables to effect trim seems
difficult for me to accept.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Northern VA RV-10 Builders? |
| From: | "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I had some meetings in the Reston, VA area that ended early so it looks like I've
got an evening free. Any RV-10 builders in the area that want to get together
or need some help? Contact me on my cell phone at 402 651 0402
Bob
#40105/N442PM Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183329#183329
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
Don Orrick sent me some photos and info on a rudder trim setup
that he's using in his RV-10. It's got a vernier control and
doesn't lock any cables anytime. He admits it to be slightly
crude as it's a proof-of-concept that he actually has flying,
but it could be cleaned up to be pretty nice if someone wanted
it different. I'm just passing on the info to you all in case
you like the idea.
It's in my Tips area at: (with photos)
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/DonOrrick.html
I'm surprised at how long the rudder trim thread lasts. It
seems to me that there are just so many ideas to ponder.
Personally, the electric servo trim tab seems pretty
simple and straightforward and actually took very little
effort and time to install...and I left the rudder on
the plane to do it, so I'm not sure why people spend tons
of time and effort on other ideas, but it's showing to be
a good thinking exercise at least. And between Albert
and Don, these systems are pretty true to the simple
rudder trim concept, without affecting rudder pedal function.
For me, a static wedge was pretty good for a long time.
The adjustable trim is very nice to have...and I personally
feel it's hard to beat a quick tap of a button to center
it...with no cable involvement at all.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> I have been doing a little testing of my spring bias trim system. I did not
> measure rudder pedal forces required but the spring bias system has almost
> enough force on take off so that only a little right rudder pressure is
> required and the same for slow flight. Otherwise for normal climb, cruise
> and descents the trim system will center the ball. It was easy to install as
> Vans aileron trim servo is used as is and 4 holes drilled in the bottom of
> the tail cone to install it. The turn around pulley bracket is simple to
> fabricate and bolts to the elevator bell crank housing assy. The hardest
> part was pulling additional rudder cables from the trim servo arm back to
> the rudder horn. Also, having 2 rudder cables attached to the rudder horn is
> the one thing I don't like about the system. I already had a 5 wire cable
> installed in the tail come anticipating rudder trim at some later point when
> I built the plane and a Ray Allen LED trim indicator and switch on the panel
> with wiring completed. The trim forces are fairly easy to overcome so run
> away trim doesn't seem to be a big worry. All in all I'm very happy with the
> system. Frankly, the idea of clamping the rudder cables to effect trim seems
> difficult for me to accept.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 |
| From: | lessdragprod(at)aol.com |
Hi Dick,
I received the following comment from MT Propeller in Germany.
"(The) Best way is to send it (the?governor)?to MT USA as they do it (the adjustment)?on
the test bench.? UPS Ground is not expensive and the better way.? In
the operating & Installation manual of the governor (it)?is stated on page 12
that the modification must be done at an authorized service shop."
Additionally, because of the spring loading, the MT Propeller?factory is concerned
about the customer?loosing track of the position of the splined shaft?when
the control lever is removed.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Sipp <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, 14 May 2008 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
Jim:
?
Is re-indexing the arm on the govenor an as others have mentioned a factory acceptable
adjustment?
?
Thanks
?
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5
If Van's Aircraft sold the P-860-5 governor for the wide deck Lycoming IO-540 engine,
you wouldn't even be having this discussion.
The P-860-3 governor is for the narrow deck Lycoming IO-540 engine, which has a
May 03, 2008 - May 15, 2008
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-di