RV10-Archive.digest.vol-fk

November 25, 2009 - December 05, 2009



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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking
From: sean(at)braunandco.com
Date: Nov 25, 2009
This is why I think a lot of the gear legs are misaligned. My right gear was toed in and my left was toed out until I drilled the left gear to match the right at 1.10 degrees in. ------Original Message------ From: jkreidler Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Nov 24, 2009 7:19 PM Subject: RV10-List: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking We have been working on solving a main gear shimmy while braking. First just to clarify our symptoms, after landing, after the nose wheel comes down, as soon as we went to the brakes we got a shimmy. If we did not use the brakes we did not have a shimmy. We visually confirmed it was main gear shimmy. We also had a scalloped wear patter starting on our mains (80 hours TT). I may be stating something very obvious, but the fix was very simple, we had to re-torque our axle nuts. Tightened up the nuts, and the shimmy is gone. Just passing along an experience..... -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274711#274711 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 Takeoff Fuel Flow
Rob, if it's a stk IO540 with std compression, those appear to be-ok numb ers.- But not sure how that would affect balancing the injectors.- I ju st need to alter one nozzle,,, but it took me 2 tries. Hey, as far as flow balancing, we need to get a list of the extra nozzle re strictors we come up with.... I've got a .028 and a .027 extra. Don McDonald --- On Tue, 11/24/09, RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: From: RobHickman(at)aol.com <RobHickman(at)aol.com> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Takeoff Fuel Flow Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 5:00 PM I am in the middle of injector-tuning on my RV-10 and my neighbor is conv inced that I do not have enough fuel flow on takeoff.- - At sea level I am getting: - RPM----2700 MAN----27.9" - 24.2 GPH - Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: windows & fiberglass
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2009
Am at the point of doors, windows, and getting ready to attach plex to fiberglass. I'm considering using sikaflex, West Marine has the sikaflex291, is this the one others are using, or is there another? Also, is it common practice to glass over the window edge to cover the flange/plex bonding point so the adhesive can't be seen through the window? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274728#274728 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
From: Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com>
Hi, Dave... sounds like you and I are at about the same point. I'd read on here that Sikaflex wasn't a good choice because it requires a deep "bed" between the fiberglass and plexi, which the RV-10 design doesn't allow for, but I think some have used it anyway. Some people glass over the joint to reduce the chances of cracking later, but it shouldn't be necessary to hide the adhesive, since that portion of the plexi will be painted. I need to do my windows sometime in the next month and am still undecided on what to use. I like some of what I've heard about the FE6026, but it sounds like it's not as strong as the Weld-on. I'll probably go with the weld-on if nothing changes between now and the time I need to do it. -Rob On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 9:36 PM, rvdave wrote: > > Am at the point of doors, windows, and getting ready to attach plex to > fiberglass. I'm considering using sikaflex, West Marine has the > sikaflex291, is this the one others are using, or is there another? Also, > is it common practice to glass over the window edge to cover the flange/plex > bonding point so the adhesive can't be seen through the window? > > -------- > Dave Ford > RV6 flying > RV10 building > Cadillac, MI > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274728#274728 > > -- Rob Kochman RV-10 "Finishing" Kit Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2009
I am not sure I understand your statement.... Please expand. My point in passing this along was really to say that for us (again for us), the fix was as simple as tightening the axle nut. This solution came after checking toe, contemplating balancing tires, researching brake failure modes, etc. In the end after hours of head scratching it was just a basic maintenance item. Possibly everyone on the list who has faced main gear shimmy issues has a different problem, but I could not find this solution anywhere. I also couldn't find a case of someone who changed their toe setting and solved the problem. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274735#274735 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: windows & fiberglass
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Dave, There have been numerous threads on using or not using Weld On. I decided to not use Weld On, instead using Hysol (the product used by Lancair for their windows). http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=9360-QT&ReturnUrl=Categorie s.aspx?Category=992b7b06-e01b-4918-bb0c-79343cdb7869 I know other builders have used standard fiberglass epoxy or Scotch-Weld 2216 epoxy (both with flox) with successful results. I used the Scotch Weld product for the control surfaces trailing edge and to install the Naca ducts. It is a good product. Talking with other builders and looking at builder websites, here are some tips I gathered: 1. Have a good 1/16" gap between the edge of the glass and the fiberglass opening (exterior of the plane). This allows excess adhesive a place to exit, and fills the gap as well. 2. Mask off everything other than the mating surfaces. I use the "10 rolls for $3.99" Harbor Freight electrical tape for this as it leaves no residue and can take some sandpaper hits. For the masking on the edge where I'll do glass trim work later I use two layers of tape. 3 Roughen the window and fiberglass mating surfaces with 60 grit paper. 4. Apply a thin coat of adhesive to both mating surfaces. 5. Use a mixture of flox, Cab-O-Sil and adhesive to coat the mating surface. The flox helps fill the voids and the Cab-O-Sil thickens the mix so it does not run. You may want to experiment first to get a mixture you like. 6. For Hysol, let cure for a week before doing trim work. 7. I've seen a few RV-10 with cracks around the window where filler was used. The ones I've seen with the window/fiberglass junction was first covered with a bid or two of glass then faired in with filler did not have cracks. My end product will have glass/filler/paint covering the edge so that you do not see through the window to the adhesive. Many ways to do this - mine is but one. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (500 hrs) RV-10 (systems install) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:37 AM Subject: RV10-List: windows & fiberglass Am at the point of doors, windows, and getting ready to attach plex to fiberglass. I'm considering using sikaflex, West Marine has the sikaflex291, is this the one others are using, or is there another? Also, is it common practice to glass over the window edge to cover the flange/plex bonding point so the adhesive can't be seen through the window? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274728#274728 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
Date: Nov 25, 2009
One of the big reasons to glass over the joint is to keep the paint from cracking there. You're going to have a somewhat irregular space between the plexi and the fiberglass. Most materials that you try to fill it with will expand and contract at different rates than the plexi and fiberglass and the paint will crack in that spot. Glassing over that joint will keep that from happening, though it will make for a much messier event should you ever have to replace the plexi. Jeff Carpenter 40304 Bonding with Lord Adhesive On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:12 PM, Rob Kochman wrote: > Hi, Dave... sounds like you and I are at about the same point. I'd > read on here that Sikaflex wasn't a good choice because it requires > a deep "bed" between the fiberglass and plexi, which the RV-10 > design doesn't allow for, but I think some have used it anyway. > Some people glass over the joint to reduce the chances of cracking > later, but it shouldn't be necessary to hide the adhesive, since > that portion of the plexi will be painted. > > I need to do my windows sometime in the next month and am still > undecided on what to use. I like some of what I've heard about the > FE6026, but it sounds like it's not as strong as the Weld-on. I'll > probably go with the weld-on if nothing changes between now and the > time I need to do it. > > -Rob > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 9:36 PM, rvdave > wrote: > > Am at the point of doors, windows, and getting ready to attach plex > to fiberglass. I'm considering using sikaflex, West Marine has the > sikaflex291, is this the one others are using, or is there another? > Also, is it common practice to glass over the window edge to cover > the flange/plex bonding point so the adhesive can't be seen through > the window? > > -------- > Dave Ford > RV6 flying > RV10 building > Cadillac, MI > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274728#274728 > ber is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on > -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com > omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com > http:/r generous support! > nics List Features Navigator to browse > s.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ============= > > > -- > Rob Kochman > RV-10 "Finishing" Kit > Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) > http://kochman.net/N819K > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-10 Takeoff Fuel Flow
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2009
For leaning and tuning the engine to know what size of injector is needed, the actual value isn't relevant, but rather the point at which it peaks. The numbers are still useful for the current discussion. There will be some variation based on location, age of sensor, etc., but the numbers for takeoff are still relevant. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Nov 25, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > > I'd like to remind y'all that talking EGT numbers really isn't relevant > between aircraft due to differences in installation of the probes. Distance from the exhaust flange and even the > placement on the circumference of the exhaust pipe will change the > EGT value. What would be relevant is the difference from peak, and ROP or LOP, much like the GAMI quote from Jesse. > Linn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking
Date: Nov 25, 2009
I see that on mine also Rt In=2C Lf Out. Problem is not necessarily correct ed by changing the hole location as it may be the bend in the gear leg itse lf. > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking > From: sean(at)braunandco.com > Date: Wed=2C 25 Nov 2009 03:06:28 +0000 > > > This is why I think a lot of the gear legs are misaligned. My right gear was toed in and my left was toed out until I drilled the left gear to match the right at 1.10 degrees in. > ------Original Message------ > From: jkreidler > Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Nov 24=2C 2009 7:19 PM > Subject: RV10-List: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking > com> > > We have been working on solving a main gear shimmy while braking. First j ust to clarify our symptoms=2C after landing=2C after the nose wheel comes down=2C as soon as we went to the brakes we got a shimmy. If we did not use the brakes we did not have a shimmy. We visually confirmed it was main gea r shimmy. We also had a scalloped wear patter starting on our mains (80 hou rs TT). > > I may be stating something very obvious=2C but the fix was very simple=2C we had to re-torque our axle nuts. Tightened up the nuts=2C and the shimmy is gone. > > Just passing along an experience..... > > -------- > Jason Kreidler > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls=2C WI > Tony Kolar=2C Kyle Hokel=2C Wayne Elser=2C Jason Kreidler > N44YH - Flying - #40617 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274711#274711 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: windows & fiberglass
Date: Nov 25, 2009
SIkaflex states that it needs a critical thickness to allow the material to not only adhere=2C but more importantly stretch as the plexi expands and c ontracts with thermal changes. The idea with SIkaflex it a floating bed. It is an excellent material but it really is not designed for this applicatio n. A builder could make it work if one adds more fiberglass to the inside of t he door area where the windows adhere. Then route out the outside of this j oggle so the depth of the channel is deeper allowing the Sikafles to be the correct critical thickness. Correct use would also mean allowing enough w indow gap around the perimeter so the window can expand without hitting the fiberglass door edge. Sikaflex is paintable but the paint will crack under the expansions and con traction of the material in the gap. So it you us sikaflex correctly=2C you would also need to fabricate a slip joint with the fiberglass which bonds to the door and covers this gap. The fiberglass would bond to the fiberglas s door=2C but not bond to the plexi=2C thus allowing the plexi to move unde r the fiberglass. With that said=2C the fiberglass would need to be pretty thick for obvious reason in addition it would need to withstand the bulging action of the Sikaflex in the gap as the plexi expands. For those who do not appreciate how much plexi expands with thermal changes =2C trust me. Basically=2C sikaflex can be used correctly on the 10 but a lot of modifica tion would need to be done to use it. If one does not do this=2C then it really is not being used correctly and l ong term success is an unknown The above method would be the best way to put in the windows instead of cap turing the plexi in the fiberglass and distributing the expansion into the actual door...with that said=2C I used Weldon and hope that I do not allow the plane to heat up so much that my excellent fitting doors do not close b ecause the door is warped when the plexi is hot/ or cold. John Date: Tue=2C 24 Nov 2009 23:12:43 -0800 Subject: Re: RV10-List: windows & fiberglass From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com Hi=2C Dave... sounds like you and I are at about the same point. I'd read on here that Sikaflex wasn't a good choice because it requires a deep "bed" between the fiberglass and plexi=2C which the RV-10 design doesn't allow f or=2C but I think some have used it anyway. Some people glass over the joi nt to reduce the chances of cracking later=2C but it shouldn't be necessary to hide the adhesive=2C since that portion of the plexi will be painted. I need to do my windows sometime in the next month and am still undecided o n what to use. I like some of what I've heard about the FE6026=2C but it s ounds like it's not as strong as the Weld-on. I'll probably go with the we ld-on if nothing changes between now and the time I need to do it. -Rob On Tue=2C Nov 24=2C 2009 at 9:36 PM=2C rvdave wrot e: Am at the point of doors=2C windows=2C and getting ready to attach plex to fiberglass. I'm considering using sikaflex=2C West Marine has the sikaflex 291=2C is this the one others are using=2C or is there another? Also=2C is it common practice to glass over the window edge to cover the flange/plex bonding point so the adhesive can't be seen through the window? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac=2C MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274728#274728 ber is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com http:/r generous support! nics List Features Navigator to browse s.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?RV10-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============= -- Rob Kochman RV-10 "Finishing" Kit Woodinville=2C WA (near Seattle) http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Subject: Re: RV-10 Takeoff Fuel Flow
Test #1 2500 RPM 22" MP Fuel Flow EGT 1 EGT 2 EGT 3 EGT 4 EGT 5 EGT 6 13.0 1417 1420 1392 1374 1377 1397 12.8 1426 1422 1401 1377 1385 1405 12.6 1433 1422 1411 1386 1395 1412 12.4 1430 1410 1420 1397 1401 1419 12.3 1428 1403 1431 1405 1406 1414 12.2 1424 1396 1429 1408 1409 1413 12.1 1414 1389 1430 1413 1407 1409 11.9 1407 1379 1427 1417 1402 1402 11.8 1400 1374 1422 1420 1398 1397 11.5 1375 1345 1401 1420 1380 1374 11.3 1368 1340 1393 1417 1370 1366 11.2 1362 1332 1388 1410 1361 1358 Test #2 2500 RPM 22" MP Fuel Flow EGT 1 EGT 2 EGT 3 EGT 4 EGT 5 EGT 6 12.9 1427 1398 1400 1380 1382 1402 12.8 1432 1423 1407 1387 1388 1406 12.6 1434 1421 1419 1395 1396 1414 12.4 1437 1418 1422 1397 1402 1415 12.3 1424 1405 1427 1407 1402 1414 12.2 1414 1391 1429 1412 1406 1409 11.9 1403 1377 1427 1416 1398 1400 11.8 1396 1372 1424 1420 1393 1394 11.7 1390 1360 1416 1424 1391 1390 11.5 1380 1353 1405 1423 1380 1375 11.4 1373 1346 1396 1419 1371 1368 11.2 1361 1335 1384 1413 1360 1360 The plane currently has .028 injectors, I have the following injectors on order Cylinder #4 .027 Cylinder #3 & #5 .0275 Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 In a message dated 11/25/2009 9:57:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, building_partner(at)yahoo.com writes: Rob, it would be nice to see how those numbers compare to the PEAK and LOP numbers. Are the #1 and #2 cylinders still the highest? What is the order of the cylinders as they relate to reaching peak.... in gph? What were the dimensions for the temp probe install. Is it possible that #1 and/or #2 were slightly closer to the cylinder heads? Don McDonald --- On Wed, 11/25/09, RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: From: RobHickman(at)aol.com <RobHickman(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Takeoff Fuel Flow Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 9:10 AM Last flight I got the following EGT's on takeoff 1305 1322 1289 1275 1277 1284 Is it possible to slightly increase the fuel flow on a RSA injector body without having to sent it in? Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 In a message dated 11/24/2009 8:58:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, apilot2(at)gmail.com writes: I don't know what hood high EGTs means. Fuel flow should be such that takeoff EGT is between 1200 and 1300 degrees. That should give you 200 degrees rich of sea level peak EGT. Anything over 1300 calls for more fuel flow, less than 1200, less fuel flow. On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Miller John wrote: > Are you getting full rpm, MP and hood high EGT's? > Fuel flow is secondary to these indicators. > grumpy > N184JM > do not archive > > On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:00 PM, RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: > > I am in the middle of injector tuning on my RV-10 and my neighbor is > convinced that I do not have enough fuel flow on takeoff. > > At sea level I am getting: > > RPM 2700 > MAN 27.9" > > 24.2 GPH > > Rob Hickman > N402RH RV-10 > > =================================== > lectric.com > m">www.buildersbooks.com > ebuilthelp.com > w.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > nics.com > =================================== > > > =======================nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== the ties Day ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================== _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 Takeoff Fuel Flow
I believe your takeoff EGTs will come in line when you get the mixtures balanced. You are close enough that I doubt you need to do anything with the servo. In the meantime, using the boost pump until the first power reduction may help. RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: > Test #1 2500 RPM 22" MP > Fuel Flow EGT 1 EGT 2 EGT 3 EGT 4 EGT 5 EGT 6 > 13.0 1417 1420 1392 1374 1377 1397 > 12.8 1426 1422 1401 1377 1385 1405 > 12.6 1433 1422 1411 1386 1395 1412 > 12.4 1430 1410 1420 1397 1401 1419 > 12.3 1428 1403 1431 1405 1406 1414 > 12.2 1424 1396 1429 1408 1409 1413 > 12.1 1414 1389 1430 1413 1407 1409 > 11.9 1407 1379 1427 1417 1402 1402 > 11.8 1400 1374 1422 1420 1398 1397 > 11.5 1375 1345 1401 1420 1380 1374 > 11.3 1368 1340 1393 1417 1370 1366 > 11.2 1362 1332 1388 1410 1361 1358 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Garmin G900X Update / G3X Update
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
G900X owners I spoke with Tim at Garmin today and he tells me the new system software will probably be released before the end of the year. When we last spoke he mentioned that data logging would be available on the most recent update but it did not make the cut so there is a good possibility it will be on this update. That would be nice. To those contemplating a G3X I asked about Synthetic Vision (SVT) option and he said Garmin has not announced anything HOWEVER... Tim did mention that Garmin understands all the competition has synthetic vision soooooooooooo wink, wink... Happy Thanksgiving to all, Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thane States" <thane2(at)comporium.net>
Subject: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar problem?? I have a G-430 /W and after 6 weeks of down time to complete Conditional Inspection, I am unable to get the unit to aquire a signal and thus position. It has done this in the past maybe 5-6 times but always came up within 5 minutes or so. Today I was unable to get to work by powering the unit down. Any ideas or input would be great. Thane States N321BY 80 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal
Date: Nov 25, 2009
You may need to ensure the time is correct and give it a rough idea of where it is located. Also, make sure it is outside and can 'see' the satellites (not trying to be a smart @ss) - I used an extension cable on my GPS antenna to put it outside the hangar when I couldn't roll my plane around. Also, part of my oil-change requires me to remove my GPS antenna (it's mounted under the cowl and is in the way of the wrench to loosen the fliter) - so I test mine after each oil change too...just some thoughts Before I swapped out my GX60 for a GNC420W, the GX60 needed a little help in figuring out where it was. Something to try - haven't had this problem with the new 420W.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Thane States To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:20 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar problem?? I have a G-430 /W and after 6 weeks of down time to complete Conditional Inspection, I am unable to get the unit to aquire a signal and thus position. It has done this in the past maybe 5-6 times but always came up within 5 minutes or so. Today I was unable to get to work by powering the unit down. Any ideas or input would be great. Thane States N321BY 80 hrs. href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Subject: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal
From: "Jim" <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Couple of things to check: - Make sure you are not in a metal hanger (Visible Sky). Sounds silly, but the unit must be able to see the sky. - Check the cable to the GPS antenna. It is an active antenna and gets DC power from the 430W. Make sure the connections are good and no stray shield wire strands are creating shorts. - Make sure antenna location is optimum. On the top of the instrument panel, top of the fuselage or way out under the cowling away from the firewall. Jim C (N312F - Flying 140 hours - almost ready to do first condition inspection) -------------------------------------------------- Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar problem?? I have a G-430 /W and after 6 weeks of down time to complete Conditional Inspection, I am unable to get the unit to aquire a signal and thus position. It has done this in the past maybe 5-6 times but always came up within 5 minutes or so. Today I was unable to get to work by powering the unit down. Any ideas or input would be great. Thane States N321BY 80 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal
I've had this problem before, after being down for some period of time. The solution for me was to let the GPS search for up to 20-30 minutes. I'm not a rocket scientist, but the position of the satellites has likely changed since you went down for inspection, and when I talked to the GPS gurus' @ Freeflight they said it could easily take 20 + minutes particularly if the plane was moved from it's last 'on' position. Deems Davis N519PJ www.deemsrv10.com Thane States wrote: > Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar problem?? > I have a G-430 /W and after 6 weeks of down time to complete > Conditional Inspection, I am unable to get the unit to aquire a signal > and thus position. It has done this in the past maybe 5-6 times but > always came up within 5 minutes or so. > Today I was unable to get to work by powering the unit down. > Any ideas or input would be great. > Thane States > N321BY > 80 hrs. > > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking
From: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2009
jkreidler, Sorry about the reply, I received it on my phone and didn't see your fix from the weird format on my phone. I just thought you had a shimmy and you didn't know what was wrong. -------- Cust. #40936 RV-10 SB Fuselage N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274833#274833 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: Andrew Stryker <ajs_pvt_1(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Main Gear Shimmy - While Braking
Not obvious so some of the lesser experienced here (i.e. me). Thanks for the info! Andrew Stryker Building - Empennage jkreidler wrote: > > We have been working on solving a main gear shimmy while braking. First just to clarify our symptoms, after landing, after the nose wheel comes down, as soon as we went to the brakes we got a shimmy. If we did not use the brakes we did not have a shimmy. We visually confirmed it was main gear shimmy. We also had a scalloped wear patter starting on our mains (80 hours TT). > > I may be stating something very obvious, but the fix was very simple, we had to re-torque our axle nuts. Tightened up the nuts, and the shimmy is gone. > > Just passing along an experience..... > > -------- > Jason Kreidler > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI > Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler > N44YH - Flying - #40617 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274711#274711 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Section 31 - Upper Fwd fuse
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I'm completing 31-2 step #2 and there is a missing measurement on their fabrication drawing. If you look at the drawing, they give you the overall length of the F-1044B angle and they give you all kinds of detail about the right side. However, on the left side they don't give you any information regarding the amount of material that needs to be removed from the angle aluminum. How much material needs to be removed so we get the appropriate length on the tab? Thanks, Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Section 31 - Upper Fwd fuse
Date: Nov 25, 2009
The primary reason for removing material is to facilitate the bend. I just removed a little more than the width of the F-1001B Upper Angle. Welcome to the fuselage plans. You have to read between the lines quite a bit more than in the previous plans. bob From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Section 31 - Upper Fwd fuse I'm completing 31-2 step #2 and there is a missing measurement on their fabrication drawing. If you look at the drawing, they give you the overall length of the F-1044B angle and they give you all kinds of detail about the right side. However, on the left side they don't give you any information regarding the amount of material that needs to be removed from the angle aluminum. How much material needs to be removed so we get the appropriate length on the tab? Thanks, Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Section 31 - Upper Fwd fuse
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking too. Just a little bit at a time and small adjustments until you get there. The real frustrating part is that these steps were obviously completed at the QB factory, but they never finished the job by riveting the parts into the fuselage. I guess they tossed them overboard somewhere in the Pacific ocean. So now I'm trying to bend angles and fabricate parts to match their pre-existing holes. I'll get started on it tomorrow when I'm not quite so frustrated. J Phil From: Bob Leffler [mailto:rv(at)thelefflers.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Section 31 - Upper Fwd fuse The primary reason for removing material is to facilitate the bend. I just removed a little more than the width of the F-1001B Upper Angle. Welcome to the fuselage plans. You have to read between the lines quite a bit more than in the previous plans. bob From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Section 31 - Upper Fwd fuse I'm completing 31-2 step #2 and there is a missing measurement on their fabrication drawing. If you look at the drawing, they give you the overall length of the F-1044B angle and they give you all kinds of detail about the right side. However, on the left side they don't give you any information regarding the amount of material that needs to be removed from the angle aluminum. How much material needs to be removed so we get the appropriate length on the tab? Thanks, Phil www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving!!
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the list and their families....Lets not forget all those deployed in the Military...many of them RV builders who are giving up this holiday with their loved ones so we can be with ours. Rick Sked N246RS Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thane States" <thane2(at)comporium.net>
Subject: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Deems, thanks for that info, that may be what it needs. I was not able with the short flight's to be airborn for more than 10 minutes or so. I hope that is it. Thanks, Thane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal > > I've had this problem before, after being down for some period of time. > The solution for me was to let the GPS search for up to 20-30 minutes. I'm > not a rocket scientist, but the position of the satellites has likely > changed since you went down for inspection, and when I talked to the GPS > gurus' @ Freeflight they said it could easily take 20 + minutes > particularly if the plane was moved from it's last 'on' position. > > Deems Davis > N519PJ > www.deemsrv10.com > > Thane States wrote: >> Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar problem?? >> I have a G-430 /W and after 6 weeks of down time to complete Conditional >> Inspection, I am unable to get the unit to aquire a signal and thus >> position. It has done this in the past maybe 5-6 times but always came >> up within 5 minutes or so. Today I was unable to get to work by powering >> the unit down. >> Any ideas or input would be great. >> Thane States >> N321BY >> 80 hrs. >> >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> * >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal
Try dragging the plane out of the hangar, powering it up and let it 'search for 30 minutes. Thane States wrote: > > Deems, thanks for that info, that may be what it needs. I was not > able with the short flight's to be airborn for more than 10 minutes or > so. I hope that is it. > Thanks, > Thane > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:26 PM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal > > >> >> I've had this problem before, after being down for some period of >> time. The solution for me was to let the GPS search for up to 20-30 >> minutes. I'm not a rocket scientist, but the position of the >> satellites has likely changed since you went down for inspection, >> and when I talked to the GPS gurus' @ Freeflight they said it could >> easily take 20 + minutes particularly if the plane was moved from >> it's last 'on' position. >> >> Deems Davis >> N519PJ >> www.deemsrv10.com >> >> Thane States wrote: >>> Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar problem?? >>> I have a G-430 /W and after 6 weeks of down time to complete >>> Conditional Inspection, I am unable to get the unit to aquire a >>> signal and thus position. It has done this in the past maybe 5-6 >>> times but always came up within 5 minutes or so. Today I was unable >>> to get to work by powering the unit down. >>> Any ideas or input would be great. >>> Thane States >>> N321BY >>> 80 hrs. >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> >>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> >>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Subject: windows & fiberglass
I had a post a month or two back about my experiences using the Lord adhesive recommended by Geoff Combs. It worked really well on the door windows and is made for our application. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: windows & fiberglass Am at the point of doors, windows, and getting ready to attach plex to fiberglass. I'm considering using sikaflex, West Marine has the sikaflex291, is this the one others are using, or is there another? Also, is it common practice to glass over the window edge to cover the flange/plex bonding point so the adhesive can't be seen through the window? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274728#274728 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Subject: QB Fuel tank issue
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
I discovered that one of my fuel tanks has the vent line improperly bent in the inboard bay, such that it runs down the middle between the two stiffeners, leaving no room for the sending unit float, either in front or behind. Email with Vans has suggested trying to loosen the nut on the inside to disconnect the vent line, and re-bend it. I think this might be possible if I pulled the line out perhaps 8-10". Can anyone comment on feasibility, given the need aftewards to maneuver the far end back into the clip at the gas cap flange? Obviously all operations would have to be done by feel with the amount of fingers that can go into sending unit hole and gas cap flange on other end. I don't think even a child's hand would go all the way through those holes. Just another area of total lack of QC on the QB process. Kelly 40866 QB wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Subject: Re: QB Fuel tank issue
From: John Trollinger <john(at)trollingers.com>
I pulled my vent line out once all my ribs were in place and re-ran it through the correct holes without any issues. On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I discovered that one of my fuel tanks has the vent line improperly > bent in the inboard bay, such that it runs down the middle between the > two stiffeners, leaving no room for the sending unit float, either in > front or behind. Email with Vans has suggested trying to loosen the > nut on the inside to disconnect the vent line, and re-bend it. I think > this might be possible if I pulled the line out perhaps 8-10". Can > anyone comment on feasibility, given the need aftewards to maneuver > the far end back into the clip at the gas cap flange? Obviously all > operations would have to be done by feel with the amount of fingers > that can go into sending unit hole and gas cap flange on other end. I > don't think even a child's hand would go all the way through those > holes. > Just another area of total lack of QC on the QB process. > Kelly > 40866 > QB wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Subject: Re: QB Fuel tank issue
From: John Trollinger <john(at)trollingers.com>
never mind, I did not finish reading, my top was not installed yet. On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I discovered that one of my fuel tanks has the vent line improperly > bent in the inboard bay, such that it runs down the middle between the > two stiffeners, leaving no room for the sending unit float, either in > front or behind. Email with Vans has suggested trying to loosen the > nut on the inside to disconnect the vent line, and re-bend it. I think > this might be possible if I pulled the line out perhaps 8-10". Can > anyone comment on feasibility, given the need aftewards to maneuver > the far end back into the clip at the gas cap flange? Obviously all > operations would have to be done by feel with the amount of fingers > that can go into sending unit hole and gas cap flange on other end. I > don't think even a child's hand would go all the way through those > holes. > Just another area of total lack of QC on the QB process. > Kelly > 40866 > QB wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: QB Fuel tank issue
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Get a new sender wire and bend the bugger so that the float runs along parallel with the vent line. 90 degree bend near the shepards hook. It will take some patience to get it right, and it will look like a road map, but your only other answer will involve cutting an inspection hole like the other RV's. You will need a new wire because by the time you get this groovy thing bent up its going to take more wire than the standard deal. Dont cut the wire and put the last little bend in until last...the one that goes through the sender..... Cheers.. Evan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Fuel tank issue > > I discovered that one of my fuel tanks has the vent line improperly > bent in the inboard bay, such that it runs down the middle between the > two stiffeners, leaving no room for the sending unit float, either in > front or behind. Email with Vans has suggested trying to loosen the > nut on the inside to disconnect the vent line, and re-bend it. I think > this might be possible if I pulled the line out perhaps 8-10". Can > anyone comment on feasibility, given the need aftewards to maneuver > the far end back into the clip at the gas cap flange? Obviously all > operations would have to be done by feel with the amount of fingers > that can go into sending unit hole and gas cap flange on other end. I > don't think even a child's hand would go all the way through those > holes. > Just another area of total lack of QC on the QB process. > Kelly > 40866 > QB wings > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com>
Subject: riveting the cabin top
Date: Nov 26, 2009
So I can no longer avoid it..........I am going to rivet on my cabin top th is weekend. I have avoided it as long as possible to enjoy the advantage o f having good access to the tailcone as I discovered more and more things I wanted to do back there........but I digress. I saw this morning that the plans call for CS4-4 rivets for attachment of t he cabin top to the side skins. Has anyone used solid rivets=2C as I clear ly have access to buck them? Would that be an improvement? Would that pote ntially damabe the composite from the impact of driving the rivets? Thanks in advance for any thoughts on it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: riveting the cabin top
From: sean(at)braunandco.com
Date: Nov 27, 2009
I read on Tim olsens site that he tried it. I won't try to remember what he stated but you can look it up on his site. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:05:51 Subject: RV10-List: riveting the cabin top So I can no longer avoid it..........I am going to rive t on my cabin top this weekend. I have avoided it as long as possible to enjoy the advantage of having go od access to the tailcone as I discovered more and more things I wanted to do back there........but I digress. I saw this morning that the plans call for CS4-4 rivets for attachment of the cabin top to the side skins. Has anyone used solid rivets, as I clearly have access to buck them? Would that be an improvement? Would t hat potentially damabe the composite from the impact of d riving the rivets? Thanks in advance for any thoughts on it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: riveting the cabin top
From: "egohr1" <EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu>
Date: Nov 26, 2009
the cs-4 rivets will not damage the composite top and are used in shear between the two aluminum layers. If you use solid rivets you will damage the epoxy / glass as the rivet expands. Use the cs-4's -------- eric gohr EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275006#275006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Subject: Re: riveting the cabin top
From: Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com>
I used the CS4-4s. Most people I've talked to who used solid rivets said it wasn't worth it. Tim's comments sum it up pretty well: http://myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050816/index.html -Rob On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Roxanne and Mike Lefever < roxianmike(at)msn.com> wrote: > So I can no longer avoid it..........I am going to rivet on my cabin top > this weekend. I have avoided it as long as possible to enjoy the advantage > of having good access to the tailcone as I discovered more and more things I > wanted to do back there........but I digress. > > I saw this morning that the plans call for CS4-4 rivets for attachment of > the cabin top to the side skins. Has anyone used solid rivets, as I clearly > have access to buck them? Would that be an improvement? Would that > potentially damabe the composite from the impact of driving the rivets? > > Thanks in advance for any thoughts on it. > > * > > * > > -- Rob Kochman RV-10 "Finishing" Kit Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: riveting the cabin top
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I have heard that Van's selected pulled rivets over solid rivets, so we don't break any glass pounding the rivet head. Ultimately causing structural issues. Most people lay a layer of 2 oz glass over the top of the pulled rivets to hide the rivet heads. Phil From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever [mailto:roxianmike(at)msn.com] Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: riveting the cabin top So I can no longer avoid it..........I am going to rivet on my cabin top this weekend. I have avoided it as long as possible to enjoy the advantage of having good access to the tailcone as I discovered more and more things I wanted to do back there........but I digress. I saw this morning that the plans call for CS4-4 rivets for attachment of the cabin top to the side skins. Has anyone used solid rivets, as I clearly have access to buck them? Would that be an improvement? Would that potentially damabe the composite from the impact of driving the rivets? Thanks in advance for any thoughts on it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Defective qb tank
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Why is no one suggesting vans replace the defective tank with one built correctly . Please do not censor this post. Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 520 Lawrence St. Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert(at)brunklaw.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com>
Subject: riveting the cabin top
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Thanks for multiple great replys..........CS4-4s it is! Subject: Re: RV10-List: riveting the cabin top From: sean(at)braunandco.com Date: Fri=2C 27 Nov 2009 01:23:34 +0000 I read on Tim olsens site that he tried it. I won't try to remember what he stated but you can look it up on his site. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com> Date: Thu=2C 26 Nov 2009 18:05:51 -0700 Subject: RV10-List: riveting the cabin top So I can no longer avoid it..........I am going to rivet on my cabin top th = is weekend. =3B I have avoided it as long as possible to enjoy the ad va= ntage of having good access to the tailcone as I discovered more and more t= hings I wanted to do back there........but I digress. =3B I saw this morning that the plans call for CS4-4 rivets for attachment of t = he cabin top to the side skins. =3B Has anyone used solid rivets=2C as = I clearly have access to buck them? =3B Would that be an improvem ent? W= ould that potentially damabe the composite from the impact of dri ving the r= ivets? =3B Thanks in advance for any thoughts on it. = 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =B7=9B~=89=ED=B2=2C=DE=DC==9C=A2Z+=D3M4=D3G=DAq=ED=C3r=8B=AB=89=EA=E7{ =07(=BA=B8=9E=AFp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp =F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7 =0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp =F7=0Fp=F7 =F9^j=C7=92=BA=9Ah=AE=D6(=BA=B2=B2=DB=13=86+ =A2{a=DC0'tg=ADJ =89=9E=01a=128=C1=05DA=06=89=FBl=DC==C36=8B=DE=99=B7=AB=8A=CBax =E7=B9=A9 K=8A=CBE=BAwQj+=1E=AC)brJ'=DC=3Bax*'=B6=B8=9B=BA=D8=A8=9EX=A7=91=B7=A5=A3 h ~)=DD=A2=EBf=A2=B7=9An=8B=AD=DC=3Ba=8A=CC=9Ej=BB=13z=BA~'=05=AD=E7=88=9D =C7=A7=B6+=DE=1A'=ED=B2=9A=E8=BE'^wp=DB=CBp=C0z=BA=04-=E7-=AE'=1A=86=B7 =9F=DC8m=B6=9F=FF=C3 =1Az=BA=1E-=E7-=AE'=1C=A2l0=C1=A7=AB=A1=E9^r=DAq =CA&=FD=AD=C3N=17=81=BA)]z=BB=01=A2=89=2C=B6=8A=DEj=1A=DE=7Fp=E1=B6=DA=7F =FF 0n=E8=A5u=EA=ECn=8A$=B1=CA&=C3 =1B=BA)]z=BB=1B=A2=89=2Cr=89kp=C7=A2g =9B=BA)m=1CB=CFj=1A=DE=7Fp=E1=B6=DA=7F=FF 0=86=89=9En=E8=A5=B6=17=A5=A5=CA& =C3 !=A2g=9B=BA)m=85=E9ir=89kp=F7 =B8=AC=B4*'=B6=B8=9B=BA=D8=A8=9Dg=9BJ+ ^=DC==C3j=1A=DE=7Fp=E1=B6=DA=7F=FF 0=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1=CA&=FD=CA'=B6=B8=9B =BA=D8=A8=9E=1Bm=A7=FF=F0=C3 =9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C=A2o=DC=A2{k=89=BB=AD=8A=89 =FFkp=F7 8Z=9EL=A8=B9=FA+=CA=8B=AB=81=E9=DE=AE=8B=AC=B2=EAi=A2=BBw=0Fp=CCj =DBC=AD=A9ex=B8=AC=B4=07f=8A}=C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC= =C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3 =DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC ==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC= =C3=DC4=E1y=15u=D0=B8=AC=B4I=9A=8AQh=AE=E9=B7 K=1E=B6=17=8Cj=DA=E8=9E'=2C.+ -=15=E6=AD=BA=B7=AC5=AB=81=ABh=AE=DA=1B=AE=8C=2C{p=ED=85=E9=9A=9F"=B2 =DB=AD=8AX=AD=89=EB=2C=B9=C8Z=B0=B8=AC=B5I=FFJ=E6=ECr=B8=A9=B6*'=DC0+r=18 =AFy'=9A=AD=C8C=A3 =E5=A1=A7{ =AC=81=AE=8C=2Cx(Z=B4P=10=DC3=E1=A2=DA=2C=85 =DEjwf=B9=C8f=B9=C8f=A2=B7=B7=0Fp=DA=86=B7=9F=DC8m=B6=9F=FF=C3 &j=DA=E8 =9E'=2Cr=895=AB=81=ABh=AD=15u=D0=B8=AC=B6=1Bm=A7=FF=F0=C3 =9A=B6=BA' =89=CB=1C=A2o=CDj=F8 j=DA+E]t.+-=FD=AD=C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC= =C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3 =DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC ==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC==C3=DC= =C3=DC==C3=DC3�=3BM=13=8D $'=10=11NEC=12=DC4=9A=99=E8+y=AB\=A2{^=9E =D6=A5=B2=86=AFj)ZnW=AF=89=ABayg=9B=16=8A=EE=9A=CD=C3=DC6=A1=AD=E7=F7=0E=1B m=A7=FF=DF=A2=BB=B2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9A=1Bm=A7=FF=DF=A2=BB=B2f=AD=AE =89r=C7(=9B=F6=B7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp =F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7 =0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp=F7=0Fp =F7=0Fp=F7=0F=F6=FF~=89=ED=FE=9A=DE=FD=BA=1D=CB=F8m=9A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: QB Fuel tank issue
From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Kelly, I've got QB tanks not far from you in Mesa. The sender is in one but not the other. You are welcome to come look at mine if it helps. Myron 602 421 2868 -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275017#275017 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tools for starting on cabin top
From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Santa's elves have been making inquiries. I was looking at tools for the cabin top. A couple of interesting one's are the bandfile and the dual saw / twin cutter (Sear's version) Any suggestions? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00989738000P?keyword=portable+belt+sander -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275024#275024 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Sounds good, where can I get the Lord adhesive? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275025#275025 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tools for starting on cabin top
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I have a Fein Multimaster for making cuts and sanding. My kit is referred to as the "Top" kit. Most of the time I use the circular blade and it will cut anything - except skin. (Warning: Don't try it with a straight blade. Those will cut.) http://www.fein.de/fein-multimaster/us/en/products/multimaster_top.html I've used it multiple times throughout the project and it's now a very valuable tool in the shop. It's a real time saver. I've frozen plexi and then pulled it out and immediately cut it with the circular (or semi-circular) blade. It worked just fine without any cracking at all. It cuts fiberglass too as well as aluminum. The kerf from the blade is pretty much nonexistent compared to other methods. Here's some videos. http://www.fein.de/fein-multimaster/us/en/media/multimaster_video.php Now for some of the best news. It's nearly a dust free operation. Since the tool oscillates, it chips away small pieces of material and it falls straight down on the floor. Some folks will tell you that it doesn't generate heat, but it does. Not nearly as much as traditional cutting methods, but anytime you're ripping material apart it's going to generate some heat. By the way, the set I purchased comes with a shop vac attachment too. The Fein Multimaster held the patent for this tool and it recently expired. This is allowed other companies to come in with knock-off brands that are much cheaper. The Fein isn't a cheap tool, but it is the BMW of tool brands. The knock off versions were available when I bought my Fein, but I still went ahead with the higher end tool. I decided on the Fein because 1) I didn't want to buy a disposable tool. If I'm going buy a tool for the shop, I want to buy the best tool for the job. 2) Performance. The other tools will work, but they don't cut as effectively. 3) Ergonomics of the Fein is much better. 4) The Fien's ability to quickly change blades with the flip of a lever was a selling point too. The Fein tool travels in a 3.2 degree arc 21,000 times per minute. Dremel's Multi-Max travels in a smaller arc (1.5 degrees) at 10,000 - 21,000 oscillations per minute. http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/ToolDetail.aspx?pid=Multi-Max Craftsman has come out with a knock-off tool called the Nextec Multi-tool. It travels 2.8 degrees at 15,000. http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00917438000P?vName=Tools+%2 6+Equipment&cName=Power+Tools&sName=Portable+Power+Tools The Bosch PS50 doesn't state it's arc, but has as oscillation of 20,000. http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?p id=PS50-2B You get the idea. I think Harbor Freight has a knock off that they're selling too. I've spoken with folks who were happy with their Dremel's, but I don't have any regrets for spending the extra money on the Fein. I'd like to get their opinion on the Dremel after they've had a chance to use the Fein for a while, just to get an opinion with a more realistic point of reference to compare the two from. I did offer my Fein to a friend (Dremel user) but he refused to use it because he was afraid it might cost him $400 in the end to happy again. :) But it is one awesome tool for the garage and for the house. Phil -----Original Message----- From: woxofswa [mailto:woxof(at)aol.com] Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:19 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tools for starting on cabin top Santa's elves have been making inquiries. I was looking at tools for the cabin top. A couple of interesting one's are the bandfile and the dual saw / twin cutter (Sear's version) Any suggestions? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00989738000P?keyword=portable+b elt+sander -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275024#275024 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Tools for starting on cabin top
Date: Nov 27, 2009
I bought the Harbor Freight version to trim the cabin cover. I was a little skeptical at first since it only does 10,000 rpm. For $34.95 I figure it was worth the try. The good news is that it cut the fiberglass just fine. I did go through some blades. After three to four feet of cutting the pink fiberglass, the blades teeth were worn smooth. I don't know how long the Fein or other vendors' blades last. But when the HF blade is $5 and the Fein is $40, you can afford to buy a few more blades. The blade did get rather hot when cutting the fiberglass, so I'm not sure if it will be effective on the plexi. I suspect that may be due to the lower RPM. It's clearly not as nice as the Fein. I am curious if anyone has attempted to cut the windows with it yet. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:03 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tools for starting on cabin top I have a Fein Multimaster for making cuts and sanding. My kit is referred to as the "Top" kit. Most of the time I use the circular blade and it will cut anything - except skin. (Warning: Don't try it with a straight blade. Those will cut.) http://www.fein.de/fein-multimaster/us/en/products/multimaster_top.html I've used it multiple times throughout the project and it's now a very valuable tool in the shop. It's a real time saver. I've frozen plexi and then pulled it out and immediately cut it with the circular (or semi-circular) blade. It worked just fine without any cracking at all. It cuts fiberglass too as well as aluminum. The kerf from the blade is pretty much nonexistent compared to other methods. Here's some videos. http://www.fein.de/fein-multimaster/us/en/media/multimaster_video.php Now for some of the best news. It's nearly a dust free operation. Since the tool oscillates, it chips away small pieces of material and it falls straight down on the floor. Some folks will tell you that it doesn't generate heat, but it does. Not nearly as much as traditional cutting methods, but anytime you're ripping material apart it's going to generate some heat. By the way, the set I purchased comes with a shop vac attachment too. The Fein Multimaster held the patent for this tool and it recently expired. This is allowed other companies to come in with knock-off brands that are much cheaper. The Fein isn't a cheap tool, but it is the BMW of tool brands. The knock off versions were available when I bought my Fein, but I still went ahead with the higher end tool. I decided on the Fein because 1) I didn't want to buy a disposable tool. If I'm going buy a tool for the shop, I want to buy the best tool for the job. 2) Performance. The other tools will work, but they don't cut as effectively. 3) Ergonomics of the Fein is much better. 4) The Fien's ability to quickly change blades with the flip of a lever was a selling point too. The Fein tool travels in a 3.2 degree arc 21,000 times per minute. Dremel's Multi-Max travels in a smaller arc (1.5 degrees) at 10,000 - 21,000 oscillations per minute. http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/ToolDetail.aspx?pid=Multi-Max Craftsman has come out with a knock-off tool called the Nextec Multi-tool. It travels 2.8 degrees at 15,000. http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00917438000P?vName=Tools+%2 6+Equipment&cName=Power+Tools&sName=Portable+Power+Tools The Bosch PS50 doesn't state it's arc, but has as oscillation of 20,000. http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?p id=PS50-2B You get the idea. I think Harbor Freight has a knock off that they're selling too. I've spoken with folks who were happy with their Dremel's, but I don't have any regrets for spending the extra money on the Fein. I'd like to get their opinion on the Dremel after they've had a chance to use the Fein for a while, just to get an opinion with a more realistic point of reference to compare the two from. I did offer my Fein to a friend (Dremel user) but he refused to use it because he was afraid it might cost him $400 in the end to happy again. :) But it is one awesome tool for the garage and for the house. Phil -----Original Message----- From: woxofswa [mailto:woxof(at)aol.com] Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:19 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tools for starting on cabin top Santa's elves have been making inquiries. I was looking at tools for the cabin top. A couple of interesting one's are the bandfile and the dual saw / twin cutter (Sear's version) Any suggestions? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00989738000P?keyword=portable+b elt+sander -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275024#275024 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tools for starting on cabin top
In retrospect, the most valuable tool for me was a belt sander. There are a lot of straight lines and big curves to fit (green top, pink cowling and doors) and the belt sander has done the best job for me. I got two cheap bandfiles from HF via mail order. The 1/2" one was handy for 2 or 3 cuts. Worth it at less than $50 , but not $100+ worth it. The bigger bandfile was 2X as useful and that's the one I would get if I was getting one. I did get a Fein knock-off. Neat tool, glad I have it, but don't use it on the plane after some experimentation. If I were more familiar, perhaps. Just no useful experience at this point. The handiest tool throughout has been the air powered die grinder with the thin disks. Fast, accurate and wears well. I'm using them on the plexiglass now. I had never realized how abrasive fiberglass is on tools. Once I use a drill bit on it, I move it to the FG bag. If you use a saw blade on it, get more than few. If you have a good ($$=hard and durable) Unibit, keep it off the FG. But a cheap pack from HF on sale and use those on FG and SS. Or just stick with the HF stuff. And for countersinking, Perma-Grit tungston carbite 100 degree countersinks will save all your nice steel ones. They won't go in the countersink cage but trust me, you can eyeball it. Avery has them. I made up a tool that really worked well on the top cuts. I get a couple of blades for a 18volt reciprocating saw with abrasive carbide coatings (no teeth). They are made for straight cuts on pipe and stuff. I ground down the blade's depth so that it could turn corners and found it great for trimming the window holes on the old green top. Two blades did the whole top. No toothed blade would do that. I went thru 2 HF air powered reciprocating saws from HF. Tough tool to handle well but I did cut out the holes for the HID lights with it. That was scary. They work and <$20 but not worth it in retrospect. After really getting comfortable with the air die grinder, someone here suggested checking out the new Dremel mandrels for cutting disks. That has become one of my favorite tools. Now you have a durable abrasive wheel for metal or plastic that can be changed out in 10 seconds without tools. WhooWhee! Neat tool and congrats to Dremel for getting it right after so many years. It's too small for the plexglass but will do the job (air die grinder here). But for almost everything else, it is the easiest to handle and most accurate tool to use. As I sit here in the middle of my second full fitting of the doors, I still consider a torch at times but think that would be counterproductive. Bill "who suggests that a good shop vac with a filter bag is the best FG tool of all" Watson woxofswa wrote: > > Santa's elves have been making inquiries. I was looking at tools for the cabin top. > > A couple of interesting one's are the bandfile and the dual saw / twin cutter (Sear's version) > > Any suggestions? > > http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00989738000P?keyword=portable+belt+sander > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275024#275024 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tools for starting on cabin top
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
For tools, the Fein really is great. My uncle (a 9A builder) has used it throughout his project. When helping him before OshKosh this year I became more familiar with it. I had already done the canopy and doors on my project so it is a little late for me to invest in the tool. If I hadn't started the top yet it would be on the top of my wish list. Other knock off tools will get you through the project eventually. I too have used a lot of Harbor Freight tools, but the Fein is the best tool for the job. A MUST HAVE for the job though, are extra drill bits and tools. If it is used on Fiberglass, it stays on fiberglass. I took the bits I was currently using to the fiberglass and put new ones on the metal tools. Have good files, drill bits, and cutting tools to make the project less of a hassle. Eric Kallio 40518 installing overhead console and awaiting engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275048#275048 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com>
Subject: Re: Tools for starting on cabin top
Date: Nov 27, 2009
I will agree with Bill, The belt sander has been great. I also liked a diamond bit blade on a jigsaw to cut the rough openings. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 7:01 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tools for starting on cabin top > > For tools, the Fein really is great. My uncle (a 9A builder) has used it > throughout his project. When helping him before OshKosh this year I became > more familiar with it. I had already done the canopy and doors on my > project so it is a little late for me to invest in the tool. If I hadn't > started the top yet it would be on the top of my wish list. Other knock > off tools will get you through the project eventually. I too have used a > lot of Harbor Freight tools, but the Fein is the best tool for the job. > > A MUST HAVE for the job though, are extra drill bits and tools. If it is > used on Fiberglass, it stays on fiberglass. I took the bits I was > currently using to the fiberglass and put new ones on the metal tools. > Have good files, drill bits, and cutting tools to make the project less of > a hassle. > > Eric Kallio > 40518 installing overhead console and awaiting engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275048#275048 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Subject: Defective qb tank
No one censors posts here. And you are correct, until people start forcing Van's to address their QB process with replacements, they will most likely not do anything to fix it. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Brunkenhoefer Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: RV10-List: Defective qb tank Why is no one suggesting vans replace the defective tank with one built correctly . Please do not censor this post. Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 520 Lawrence St. Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert(at)brunklaw.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
Search the archives for the post, I had all the info in there. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:22 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: windows & fiberglass Sounds good, where can I get the Lord adhesive? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275025#275025 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
From: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Tim Olson wrote: > Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER > on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. > Tim The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscriptions. They screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still on their books. Otherwise I might have jumped on it. Maybe next year if they offer it again. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Defective qb tank
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Thank you for the acknowledgment. I meant no offence. Robert Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 520 Lawrence St. Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert(at)brunklaw.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 9:48 AM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" wrote: > > > > No one censors posts here. And you are correct, until people start forcing > Van's to address their QB process with replacements, they will most > likely not do anything to fix it. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Brunkenhoefer > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:28 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Defective qb tank > > > > > Why is no one suggesting vans replace the defective tank with one > built correctly . Please do not censor this post. > > Sent from my iPhone > > Robert E. Brunkenhoefer > Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. > 520 Lawrence St. > Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 > Phone: 361-888-8808 > Facsimile: 361-888-6753 > robert(at)brunklaw.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tools for starting on cabin top
From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Thanks for the info. Anyone try the DualSaw or Twin cutter (same thing different brands)? My kids saw the infomercial and told my wife they were going to get it for me, but I'll head them off if it doesn't serve any worthwhile purpose. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275086#275086 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com
I am becoming very concerned with the folks at Voyager. I purchased the Sk ypad and the lifetime program and I have found both to be very capable, wi th a few glitches. The departure procedures on the IFR charts apparently cannot be accessed. Only the first page of the plate shows up and unlike the AOPA version, you cannot scroll through. Secondly, the radar echoes and clouds are very intermittently displayed. They seem like very nice fo lks, but have been unresponsive to my emails, phone calls, and even failed to have a scheduled teleconference with me. I am concerned about the over all health of the company and I will continue to attempt to get my questio ns answered. In the event that I am successful I will place a post. If any one else has had a different experience, I would love to hear about it. I have spoken to the secretary who assures me that I will be contacted by a technical person, but I do not receive a contact. I am not upset at the company as I do feel it is a good value, I am just concerned about whethe r they will continue to function and what will happen to these life time subscriptions and equipment should they fail to be able to provide suppor t. If you are considering purchase you may wish to take this into consider ation. Jim Rore -----Original Message----- From: orchidman <gary(at)wingscc.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:55 am Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only im Olson wrote: Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. Tim The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscrip tions. hey screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still n their books. Otherwise I might have jumped on it. aybe next year if they offer it again. -------- ary Blankenbiller V10 - # 40674 N2GB Flying) ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078 ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The RV10-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Nov 27, 2009
You make a very valid point; A lifetime subscription is only as good of the health of the company. After I bought and received the whole Glastar kit in 1997, Stoddard Hamilton went into receivership (I only had to fabricate one part) . This was the number two company in experimental aviation in terms of stability and kit sales. I bought the complete RV10 package from Sept 2004 to mid 2005; the rush was to get all so I could complete whether or not Vans survived. These small privately held company financials are either obscure or unavailable. I bought my Chelton system in the Summer 2005 and insisted and received shipment to me within 30 days of their receipt of funds (unfortunately they did not allow credit card purchases which offer some protection) . After their XBOW/PINPOINT decision, I repeatedly asked them how they stayed in business, while being unable to deliver the promised Pinpoints. In December 2007? they did not. Look to the lifetime (strength) of the company before "buying" the lifetime guarantee. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pilotdds(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:44 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only I am becoming very concerned with the folks at Voyager. I purchased the Skypad and the lifetime program and I have found both to be very capable, with a few glitches. The departure procedures on the IFR charts apparently cannot be accessed. Only the first page of the plate shows up and unlike the AOPA version, you cannot scroll through. Secondly, the radar echoes and clouds are very intermittently displayed. They seem like very nice folks, but have been unresponsive to my emails, phone calls, and even failed to have a scheduled teleconference with me. I am concerned about the overall health of the company and I will continue to attempt to get my questions answered. In the event that I am successful I will place a post. If anyone else has had a different experience, I would love to hear about it. I have spoken to the secretary who assures me that I will be contacted by a technical person, but I do not receive a contact. I am not upset at the company as I do feel it is a good value, I am just concerned about whether they will continue to function and what will happen to these life time subscriptions and equipment should they fail to be able to provide support. If you are considering purchase you may wish to take this into consideration. Jim Rore -----Original Message----- From: orchidman <gary(at)wingscc.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:55 am Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only Tim Olson wrote: > Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER > on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. > Tim The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscriptions. They screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still on their books. Otherwise I might have jumped on it. Maybe next year if they offer it again. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078 =================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com
I received a call from a Taylor at Seattle Avionics. He was extremely help ful and answered all of my questions. There is a way to scroll through and identify departure procedures in the system and they apologized for the confusion and lack of response. The satellite imagery is due to a tempora ry problem with one of their servers. It is a very full featured program. Happy Thanksgiving everyone, Jim Rore -----Original Message----- From: pilotdds(at)aol.com Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 11:43 am Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only I am becoming very concerned with the folks at Voyager. I purchased the Sk ypad and the lifetime program and I have found both to be very capable, wi th a few glitches. The departure procedures on the IFR charts apparently cannot be accessed. Only the first page of the plate shows up and unlike the AOPA version, you cannot scroll through. Secondly, the radar echoes and clouds are very intermittently displayed. They seem like very nice fo lks, but have been unresponsive to my emails, phone calls, and even failed to have a scheduled teleconference with me. I am concerned about the over all health of the company and I will continue to attempt to get my questio ns answered. In the event that I am successful I will place a post. If any one else has had a different experience, I would love to hear about it. I have spoken to the secretary who assures me that I will be contacted by a technical person, but I do not receive a contact. I am not upset at the company as I do feel it is a good value, I am just concerned about whethe r they will continue to function and what will happen to these life time subscriptions and equipment should they fail to be able to provide suppor t. If you are considering purchase you may wish to take this into consider ation. Jim Rore -----Original Message----- From: orchidman <gary(at)wingscc.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:55 am Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only im Olson wrote: Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. Tim The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscrip tions. hey screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still n their books. Otherwise I might have jumped on it. aybe next year if they offer it again. -------- ary Blankenbiller V10 - # 40674 N2GB Flying) ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078 ======================== =========== _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com _blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ======================== p://forums.matronics.com ======================== ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The RV10-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Michael, You made mention you had some Lord adhesive left over, do you still have any to sell? Dave Ford Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275103#275103 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: G-430/W wont aquire gps signal
From: "Nick Nafsinger" <nicknaf(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
You can also try a factory reset. Hold down the CLR key when powering up. This clears the internal memory, including any user points and flight plans... Then let it reaquire (10-20 min). -------- RV-10 40569 Finishing (forever) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275104#275104 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
I'm actually pretty surprised you had a bad experience with them in the past. I've actually sent quite a few emails to their support@ email address in the past...I tend to be a tough customer sometimes because I push some feature requests, and ask questions that go in more depth sometimes than people like to spend time talking about. But, in all my emails they're usually very very quick in replying. A few weeks ago a friend who is also a user of the software saw the clouds (or lack thereof), and I emailed in and within a couple hours had the answer that they knew about it and were having problems with the data feed. Then, a couple weeks ago they had a BETA software upgrade and I had volunteered a long time ago to beta test, so I found out about it. I tried it and found that the new Data Manager feature had a bug in it if you didn't have a "Flight Guide" subscription. (I don't) I got a reply right away even though they were at the AOPA convention. I had a follow-up question that did take a few days but since they were at the show, I waited that one out. Then, a few days ago with the newer rev. of the Data Manager to do automatic chart and software updates, they came out with a new Beta version, and mine didn't auto updated. I emailed support...and mind you this was Wednesday night, late, the night before Thanksgiving. The company pres. himself fielded the email with a workaround (which I had already figured out). I get email replies at all hours, and they're always very responsive...especially one of the guys in particular. Today, with the special they ran for the first 100 customers, it was quite a deal. $230 I think was the actual discount. $600 for a full lifetime subscription for Geo-Referenced charts. $400 if you only wanted IFR charts with no GPS integration. That's pretty darn good considering the price you'd pay Garmin/Jeppesen for their offerings, and it includes far more charts. I can't speak to the questions of company health, but I've never seen any reason to doubt it. The specials they run are usually for limited quantities....like this one. 100 people got the deal. The rest either have to wait or can just pass on it. But, it sure drives the responses. There has only been one other app that was in the same price/performance ballpark and that was Golden Eagle Chart Case, and that is also a great app but I found that the long term costs were higher, and I'm going into my 3rd year without paper now. I've already saved enough to have made it worth while, so if they were gone next year, I'd still be fulfilled. Jepp has an offering too, but they're priced so far above that it isn't really practical for most users. So I don't really know one way or the other how the health of the company is, but they've been great to work with for a while now. If someone feels Chart Case or Jepp is a better way to go because they think the company is more solid, I say go for it. You might spend more, or much more money, but if it makes you comfortable, then do. It's given good peace of mind to travel and actually be able to prove I have legal charts for all trips...and it's been a great cost savings over paper. If you're flying with no charts, or out of date charts, you've got a whole different view on what's legal/safe as I do. To each his own....but isn't that great? There are some times when passing up a good deal will just cost a person a lot more in the end...I just think this was one of them. $400 to have every chart it takes to be legal for any IFR or VFR flight... forever. Heck, even 2 years worth would make that a bargain over paper if you actually use your RV-10 as it was intended. Tim pilotdds(at)aol.com wrote: > I am becoming very concerned with the folks at Voyager. I purchased the > Skypad and the lifetime program and I have found both to be very > capable, with a few glitches. The departure procedures on the IFR charts > apparently cannot be accessed. Only the first page of the plate shows up > and unlike the AOPA version, you cannot scroll through. Secondly, the > radar echoes and clouds are very intermittently displayed. They seem > like very nice folks, but have been unresponsive to my emails, phone > calls, and even failed to have a scheduled teleconference with me. I am > concerned about the overall health of the company and I will continue to > attempt to get my questions answered. In the event that I am successful > I will place a post. If anyone else has had a different experience, I > would love to hear about it. I have spoken to the secretary who assures > me that I will be contacted by a technical person, but I do not receive > a contact. I am not upset at the company as I do feel it is a good > value, I am just concerned about whether they will continue to function > and what will happen to these life time subscriptions and equipment > should they fail to be able to provide support. If you are considering > purchase you may wish to take this into consideration. > Jim Rore > > > -----Original Message----- > From: orchidman <gary(at)wingscc.com> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:55 am > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only > > > > Tim Olson wrote: >> Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER >> on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. >> Tim > > The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscriptions. > They screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still > on their books. Otherwise I might have jumped on it. > Maybe next year if they offer it again. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Nov 27, 2009
When I bought blue mountain and complained about the product the beta testers responded by lauding the product and discounting my complaints. It was at least unhelpful and we all know what happened to that company. I think it is important that I consider a product in light of my experience and that of others with them. Beta testers are those who help develop a product for sale. All that a product is supposed to do should be up and running at time of sale. Buyers are not nor should be beta testers unless that is how the item is sold. I learned this expensive lesson from blue mountain. Enough said. I feel better. Thanks for listening. Robert Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 520 Lawrence St. Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert(at)brunklaw.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 5:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...
Even though the number of List subscriptions and List posts are up significantly this year compared to last year, support during this year's List Fund Raiser has been woefully lagging from last year. There are only a couple more days left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching. I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid on the List service expenses, I will have to look into some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation a float. The lunch combo at Carl's Jr costs nearly $10 these days. Isn't the List worth at least as much as a couple of burgers? Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Nov 28, 2009
Thank you Tim for the heads up on the Voyager Black Friday special! I went with the lifetime EFB deal for $599. For that price it won't take long for it to pay for itself. Not that bad of a gamble no matter what. Yes, there is no guarantee on company solvency, but there is no guarantee on our life either - every day is a blessing, or we can choose to make it something else! Rich Hansen 6A - 1000 hours of delight 10 - Wheel fairing access doors for valve stems ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rear Seat - Removable Panel
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I'm stealing one of Deems photos here. http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/slides/DSC02724 .JPG In the process of running conduit today, I was thinking it might be nice to build a removable panel into the outboard section of the rear seat pans. This way I could remove the seat pans later to access underneath them at a later date without having wires running through the holes. This would be nice for running coax to the antenna's and riveting in the doublers..... Am I worried out nothing? Have any of you created panels in the seat pans to leave the conduit and wiring undisturbed when the seat pan is removed? I'd like to leave this seat out as long as possible. Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Seat - Removable Panel
I ran conduit along the right side all the way back and through the rear baggage bulkhead. Any belly mounded stuff will be mounted below the center console. There will also be wiring run through the console for my antennas and anything else I need. I'm just in the wiring stage now, and trying to cover all the necessities. Linn Perry, Phil wrote: > Im stealing one of Deems photos here. > > > > http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/slides/DSC02724.JPG > > > > In the process of running conduit today, I was thinking it might be nice > to build a removable panel into the outboard section of the rear seat > pans. This way I could remove the seat pans later to access underneath > them at a later date without having wires running through the holes. > This would be nice for running coax to the antennas and riveting in the > doublers.. > > > > Am I worried out nothing? Have any of you created panels in the seat > pans to leave the conduit and wiring undisturbed when the seat pan is > removed? > > > > Id like to leave this seat out as long as possible. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB Corrosion - Heads Up
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
This is intended for those listers who recently received their QB's. I've had mine for nearly 2 months and have now started seeing filiform corrosion forming on some of the areas where wash primer was not properly applied. If you look at the surface of your aluminum, you might notice it does not have a uniform color. The darker patches are where the primer was not properly applied and the corrosion is occurring only in these darker areas. >From this point forward, I'm going to scotchbrite out the corrosion and chase it with rattle can primer. If you've got a recent kit, keep your eyes peeled and take a good hard look in the darker tinted areas. The corrosion I am seeing is white and each runner is around 1/8" long. Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%...
Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser is still trailing last year by a 12% margin. If you like the ad-free environment that is the Matronics Email List and Forum experience, please make a quick Contribution to keep it that way! http://www.matronics.com/contribution I've been getting a ton of really nice comments from Contributors regarding the Lists. Please read over some of them below and see if they don't resonate with you as well. Thank you in advance for your generous contribution to support these Lists! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator --------------------------- Member Feedback ---------------------------- ur web site is a real institution of the whole Experimental Aircraft subculture. John G Thanks Matt for the lists. A lot of good info. Great bunch of list members. Great videos and no SPAM. Paul C It has been a valuable tool. Troy M ..appreciate the site as much as ever. Larry M By using various forums I've learned a ton, received great advice, made friends, and saved money! Craig W Since I've finished [my project], I've not had much to do as far as fabrication of electrical systems. However, selectively reading various topics is still very valuable and Bob's insights and new how to's make me a continuous subscriber. Larry F Matronics user groups are the best tool I have for learning to build my RV-10! Philip W There is always useful knowledge to be found on this list, and I suspect that it has kept quite a few people out of trouble over the years it has been in operation. Good entertainment, too. Graham H Great web site. I wish I'd known about it while building. Bob S I'm happy to provide some support to this list. It is very helpful. Vaughn T Good service to sport aviation!! Roger B Awesome Service you provide for us! Bill R My [project] is almost finished! However, it wouldn't be close without the [this] group. Douwe B Great list. Robert S I'm not a builder yet but learning lots from the list. Peter M Some nonsense, some humor, but mostly good information. Tony C Thanks for creating and keeping the Lists. They are entertaining and always informative! John M Thanks for this valuable resource to our community. Barry H The list is IMHO the greatest resource on the net. John B Thanks again for providing another year of your useful List service. Jerry B Great site indeed, every time I get a message I usually learn something. Peter B You are making a huge contribution to the builder fraternity and in no small way enhancing sport aviation safety. Richard G The List is the SINGLE, MOST IMPORTANT resource I have in building my RV10. I would be lost without out it. And I have made a bunch of new friends as well! Les K The lists are one of the things I really enjoy, so keep up the good work. Freddie H Every year -- the best value for my time and money! Owen B This list is a major contribution to safe building! Donald K Really enjoy the daily boost it gives me. Walter S In the last 18 months I have been privileged to listen & ask. I have learnt at the feet of the masters... Stewart G You set the standard on how Internet forums should be run and managed. Larry W The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C ..another GREAT year of advice, answers, and inspiration courtesy of the Lists and your hard work!!!! Rob B ..the best forum on the Internet! Robert B I can't tell you how grateful I am for your list and your subscribers to keep me up to date and holding the dream. Ashley M This page makes it easy to contribute. Jeffrey P Thank you for your expertise in creating & running the much useful lists! Anthony P Thanks for providing our advertising free on line community. George R Thanks for maintaining the equipment and software to provide this valuable source of information to us individuals. Your effort is appreciated by many more people than you realize. Ross H Thanks for a great site. Although the project is complete and flying I still get a wealth of information from all the messages. Marcus C Only learned about you six months ago...my RV-7A is just finished, but the list has been helpful. Wish I had discovered you sooner. Jack B This is an invaluable communications media for us common minded folks to exchange technical and other information. George H ..great service that you provide. David W ..still appreciate your list. Alain L [The] Lists are an invaluable resource. I know that it has helped me enormously in my project. William B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Seat - Removable Panel
Date: Nov 29, 2009
I installed two approx. 4x4 inch access panels above each of two com antennas so I could remove them if required. Dick Sipp N110DV From: Perry, Phil Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rear Seat - Removable Panel I'm stealing one of Deems photos here. http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/slides/DSC02724. JPG In the process of running conduit today, I was thinking it might be nice to build a removable panel into the outboard section of the rear seat pans. This way I could remove the seat pans later to access underneath them at a later date without having wires running through the holes. This would be nice for running coax to the antenna's and riveting in the doublers... Am I worried out nothing? Have any of you created panels in the seat pans to leave the conduit and wiring undisturbed when the seat pan is removed? I'd like to leave this seat out as long as possible. Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs
From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2009
I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the list if you would like. Thanks Geoff -------- Geoff Combs RV-10 QB N829GW Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs
Date: Nov 29, 2009
I was given 40 due to experimental engine. (Lycoming kit built by authorized shop like Aerosport) There is more than enough to do in the first 40 hours particularly if you have an advanced technology panel. Dick Sipp N110DV -------------------------------------------------- From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs > > > I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required > to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 > experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 > or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. > Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the > list > if you would like. > > Thanks Geoff > > -------- > Geoff Combs > RV-10 QB N829GW > Finishing > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2009
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs
Ditto to what Dick said.... I knew as a new pilot, the extra time certainly wouldn't do me any harm....- and I strongly agree with the statement tha t holding a ppl is only a license to learn. Don McDonald --- On Sun, 11/29/09, Dick & Vicki Sipp wrote: From: Dick & Vicki Sipp <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 6:22 PM I was given 40 due to experimental engine.- (Lycoming kit built by authorized shop like Aerosport) There is more than enough to do in the first 40 hours particularly if you have an advanced technology panel. Dick Sipp N110DV -------------------------------------------------- From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs > > > I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required > to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 > experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 > or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. > Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the > list > if you would like. > > Thanks Geoff > > -------- > Geoff Combs > RV-10 QB N829GW > Finishing > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Its the engine Geoff... ------Original Message------ From: aerosport1 Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Nov 29, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the list if you would like. Thanks Geoff -------- Geoff Combs RV-10 QB N829GW Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs
Date: Nov 29, 2009
Generally expect 40 hours if you have anything that is non certified- so an experimental engine not certified (mine has Eci cylinders) would require 40 hours. The DAR or FAA is the final decision on this however. I wouldn't, nor am I, be in any hurry to get the passengers, I will ask for an extended flyoff area after 35 hours from my DAR but I plan to spend at least 40 hours getting to know the frankenstein I created. My suggestion is ask around and get an idea of what others in your area that have used the same inspector you'll use had to do if you really need to know. P -------------------------------------------------- From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs > > > I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required > to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 > experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 > or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. > Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the > list > if you would like. > > Thanks Geoff > > -------- > Geoff Combs > RV-10 QB N829GW > Finishing > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2009
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs
I am one that received 25 hours with the exact same setup that Geoff has. It depends on the DAR. My DAR saw that the engine had no AD's with documentation and had a hartzell prop. I am not saying that he was right or wrong but there will be some different opinions when it comes to the fly off hours. I know that there are others that received 25 hours too. I would not be upset at 40 hours either. It does take time to learn and fix up your newly finished plane. Today, my plane is so much better than the first day. When you roll through 500 hours you'll be happy you took the time to learn and test everything on your plane. Scott SLC,UT On Nov 29, 2009, at 9:39 PM, "Pascal" wrote: Generally expect 40 hours if you have anything that is non certified- so an experimental engine not certified (mine has Eci cylinders) would require 40 hours. The DAR or FAA is the final decision on this however. I wouldn't, nor am I, be in any hurry to get the passengers, I will ask for an extended flyoff area after 35 hours from my DAR but I plan to spend at least 40 hours getting to know the frankenstein I created. My suggestion is ask around and get an idea of what others in your area that have used the same inspector you'll use had to do if you really need to know. P -------------------------------------------------- From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the list if you would like. Thanks Geoff -------- Geoff Combs RV-10 QB N829GW Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Consistency would be nice. A Subaru 7A on my field received a 25 hours Phase 1. Really??? We were at 44 hours before we had everything ironed out with the advanced avionics and temp issues. Most plans built RV's should not take that long. Regardless, just like riveting, fiberglass, paint, one day it will all be behind you. Enjoy what you are doing. Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked(at)embarqmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:30 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs Its the engine Geoff... ------Original Message------ From: aerosport1 Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Nov 29, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the list if you would like. Thanks Geoff -------- Geoff Combs RV-10 QB N829GW Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/29/09 19:31:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its my 46th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of the really nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter James" <RVPilot(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
Date: Nov 30, 2009
I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the situation was this: * Even though my engine was certified, and my prop is a Hartzell designed for the plane, the combination of the two had never appeared on a "certified" on a production airplane. The combination to the best of his knowledge had only appeared on an RV-10, which is an EXPEIMENTAL airplane. Therefore, the combination still had to be considered experimental. Based on this, he said that I was going to get 40 hours, like it or not. * One interesting point that we discussed. He said the local FSDO here in Iowa was growing more lenient about the 25 mile radius for testing. He had discussed the flying speed of the RV-10 and said at the speeds we fly, it seemed that you were always 'turning left' to stay within the radius. Therefore, he had been given leniency to pick an airport 100 miles away and allow flight testing in a straight line to it. As example, I will likely base out of Ankeny, Ia(ILV) and will request a destination of Burlington, IA (BRL). In that line of flight, I will fly over Pella, Oskaloosa, Ottumwa, Fairfield, and Mt. Pleasant. There is always an airport nearby in case of emergency. Being that I have family in two of those cities, I will be able to stop for lunch during my flight testing time. * One other area that I pressed him about was this: I wish to eliminate the 'wet compass' from my panel. I have dual AFS screens, with dual AHARS, both with battery back-up. My question was why do I have to have a wet compass? He said that there was no provision in the FARs to allow it to be eliminated. He said the rules were written in the 60's or before, and they had not been updated for current technologies. He said I needed to write a letter to the FSDO or standards office in Oklahoma. Has anyone done this? I'd sure like to eliminate the compass cluttering up the windscreen. p.s. As a side note, I have lost my job. I hope to get reemployed before I am required to sell the plane. If you know of anyone needing a sales and marketing pro, please let me know. Pete RV-10 Escalade - the never ending project. Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the list if you would like. Thanks Geoff -------- Geoff Combs RV-10 QB N829GW Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
Peter James wrote: > > > I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the > situation was this: SNIP > > One other area that I pressed him about was this: I wish to > eliminate the wet compass from my panel. I have dual AFS screens, > with dual AHARS, both with battery back-up. My question was why do I > have to have a wet compass? He said that there was no provision in the > FARs to allow it to be eliminated. He said the rules were written in > the 60s or before, and they had not been updated for current > technologies. He said I needed to write a letter to the FSDO or > standards office in Oklahoma. Has anyone done this? Id sure like to > eliminate the compass cluttering up the windscreen. Get a suction-cup mounted compass from Wall-world. Stick it anywhere you can see it .... not necessarily read it .... > > > > p.s. As a side note, I have lost my job. I hope to get reemployed > before I am required to sell the plane. If you know of anyone needing a > sales and marketing pro, please let me know. I read this and the first thought was "You picked a fine time to leave me, my job". My condolences. I've got my fingers crossed. Thankfully I'm retired and although I've lost a fair amount of money in real estate, I'm still hanging in there. Best of luck. Linn > > > > Pete > > RV-10 Escalade - the never ending project. > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs > > From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> > > > > > > I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required > > to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 > experimental > > engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And > if 25 > > why instead of 40. > > Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the list > > if you would like. > > > > Thanks Geoff > > > > -------- > > Geoff Combs > > RV-10 QB N829GW > > Finishing > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Subject: Re: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Has anyone researched what props are approved for either the Comanche 260 or Aztec 250? It would seem that any prop approved or STCd for those aircraft could get a certified combination for the -10. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Peter James wrote: > > > I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the > situation was this: > > > Even though my engine was certified, and my prop is a Hartzell > designed for the plane, the combination of the two had never appeared on a > certified on a production airplane. The combination to the best of his > knowledge had only appeared on an RV-10, which is an EXPEIMENTAL airplane. > Therefore, the combination still had to be considered experimental. Based > on this, he said that I was going to get 40 hours, like it or not. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
Date: Nov 30, 2009
I have a C4B5........the DAR was able to make that connection and only gave me 25 hours. I known have 108 hours and still testing. Now I am working on my mod list for my second annual......lets see... Second battery of Firewall (for CG purposes and some redundancy) Move the fuel pump switch next to throttle Send autopilot back for new screen (second year on that one) The list is a lot shorter this year..... Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1) Has anyone researched what props are approved for either the Comanche 260 or Aztec 250? It would seem that any prop approved or STCd for those aircraft could get a certified combination for the -10. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Peter James wrote: > > > I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the > situation was this: > > > Even though my engine was certified, and my prop is a Hartzell > designed for the plane, the combination of the two had never appeared on a > certified on a production airplane. The combination to the best of his > knowledge had only appeared on an RV-10, which is an EXPEIMENTAL airplane. > Therefore, the combination still had to be considered experimental. Based > on this, he said that I was going to get 40 hours, like it or not. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
Date: Nov 30, 2009
In April 2008 my DAR concluded that a certified IO540 and a certified Hatrzell prop warranted a 25 hour test period; I believe this as done on the basis of it being an approved engine prop combination as designated by the manufacturer of the kit. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1) Has anyone researched what props are approved for either the Comanche 260 or Aztec 250? It would seem that any prop approved or STCd for those aircraft could get a certified combination for the -10. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Peter James wrote: > > > I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the > situation was this: > > > Even though my engine was certified, and my prop is a > Hartzell designed for the plane, the combination of the two had never > appeared on a certified on a production airplane. The combination > to the best of his knowledge had only appeared on an RV-10, which is an EXPEIMENTAL airplane. > Therefore, the combination still had to be considered experimental. > Based on this, he said that I was going to get 40 hours, like it or not. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB Corrosion - Heads Up
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
Welcome back to work everyone. J After closer inspection yesterday I found more than a dozen areas of filiform intruding on the interior surfaces. I'm thinking I'll try and scrub out the corrosion then treat those areas with an alodine pen. After that I'll go ahead and shoot the entire interior with the same self etching primer I used in the tail (Variprime). Have any of you primed over the top of Vans wash primer? If so, what did you do to prep the area and how well did your primer adhere? Thanks for the help, Phil From: Perry, Phil Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Corrosion - Heads Up This is intended for those listers who recently received their QB's. I've had mine for nearly 2 months and have now started seeing filiform corrosion forming on some of the areas where wash primer was not properly applied. If you look at the surface of your aluminum, you might notice it does not have a uniform color. The darker patches are where the primer was not properly applied and the corrosion is occurring only in these darker areas. >From this point forward, I'm going to scotchbrite out the corrosion and chase it with rattle can primer. If you've got a recent kit, keep your eyes peeled and take a good hard look in the darker tinted areas. The corrosion I am seeing is white and each runner is around 1/8" long. Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
I would love to hear from any DAR that can grant a 25 hour experimental flyoff for a Subaru 'non TCDS' engine/prop combination. 40 seems to have a solid basis in safe flight. And, Scotts perspective has been well proven with the current fleet. Anyone remember Dan Lloyd's flyoff? Where's Das Fed when you need a sound voice? Extended operational ranges from the Base of Operation (while avoiding congested areas) for Phase One makes a lot of sense. The requirement for a redundant compass was not based on either the 60's or a resistance to what is now called "current technologies". Lightning strikes, EMF and a multitude of primitive failures of electrons force even 21st century glass cockpits pushed out of the factories of 2010 to retain an ISI and a compass. Anyone remember the French flight out of South America that went down over the Atlantic? It will be interesting to see the rewrite that changes the old - proven technology of the paper, tube and fabric era. Till you lose all electrical and the back-up fails you simply haven't discovered the road traveled from the stick and rudder days. Fly by wire and glass EFIS have some damned expensive triple redundant systems which are beyond even the budgets of RV-10 builders. Oh Yeh, Happy Birthday MATT! John Cox -pushin electrons- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter James Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: RV10-List: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1) I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the situation was this: * Even though my engine was certified, and my prop is a Hartzell designed for the plane, the combination of the two had never appeared on a "certified" on a production airplane. The combination to the best of his knowledge had only appeared on an RV-10, which is an EXPEIMENTAL airplane. Therefore, the combination still had to be considered experimental. Based on this, he said that I was going to get 40 hours, like it or not. * One interesting point that we discussed. He said the local FSDO here in Iowa was growing more lenient about the 25 mile radius for testing. He had discussed the flying speed of the RV-10 and said at the speeds we fly, it seemed that you were always 'turning left' to stay within the radius. Therefore, he had been given leniency to pick an airport 100 miles away and allow flight testing in a straight line to it. As example, I will likely base out of Ankeny, Ia(ILV) and will request a destination of Burlington, IA (BRL). In that line of flight, I will fly over Pella, Oskaloosa, Ottumwa, Fairfield, and Mt. Pleasant. There is always an airport nearby in case of emergency. Being that I have family in two of those cities, I will be able to stop for lunch during my flight testing time. * One other area that I pressed him about was this: I wish to eliminate the 'wet compass' from my panel. I have dual AFS screens, with dual AHARS, both with battery back-up. My question was why do I have to have a wet compass? He said that there was no provision in the FARs to allow it to be eliminated. He said the rules were written in the 60's or before, and they had not been updated for current technologies. He said I needed to write a letter to the FSDO or standards office in Oklahoma. Has anyone done this? I'd sure like to eliminate the compass cluttering up the windscreen. p.s. As a side note, I have lost my job. I hope to get reemployed before I am required to sell the plane. If you know of anyone needing a sales and marketing pro, please let me know. Pete RV-10 Escalade - the never ending project. Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 experimental engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And if 25 why instead of 40. Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the list if you would like. Thanks Geoff -------- Geoff Combs RV-10 QB N829GW Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Rear Seat - Removable Panel
Date: Nov 30, 2009
The access panel kit that Van's supplies for the stall warning setup works very well if you need a small access panel somewhere. It comes predrilled with a doubler and installation is quick and easy-it's also inexpensive. I used one near the wingtip for my 2 meter APRS transmitter. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ N991RV From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick & Vicki Sipp Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Seat - Removable Panel I installed two approx. 4x4 inch access panels above each of two com antennas so I could remove them if required. Dick Sipp N110DV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Subject: Re: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
Pete, If your DAR is talking about 91.203(b)(3), it says you have to have a magnetic direction indicator. Your AFS uses a (highly accurate) magnetometer to display magnetic heading. Nothing says it has to be non-electric, or that it has to be a wet compass. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Peter James wrote: > > > I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the > situation was this: > > > =B7 Even though my engine was certified, and my prop is a Hartzel l > designed for the plane, the combination of the two had never appeared on a > =93certified=94 on a production airplane. The combination to the best of his > knowledge had only appeared on an RV-10, which is an EXPEIMENTAL airplane . > Therefore, the combination still had to be considered experimental. Base d > on this, he said that I was going to get 40 hours, like it or not. > > > =B7 One interesting point that we discussed. He said the local F SDO > here in Iowa was growing more lenient about the 25 mile radius for testin g. > He had discussed the flying speed of the RV-10 and said at the speeds we > fly, it seemed that you were always =91turning left=92 to stay within the > radius. Therefore, he had been given leniency to pick an airport 100 mil es > away and allow flight testing in a straight line to it. As example, I wi ll > likely base out of Ankeny, Ia(ILV) and will request a destination of > Burlington, IA (BRL). In that line of flight, I will fly over Pella, > Oskaloosa, Ottumwa, Fairfield, and Mt. Pleasant. There is always an airp ort > nearby in case of emergency. Being that I have family in two of those > cities, I will be able to stop for lunch during my flight testing time. > > > =B7 One other area that I pressed him about was this: I wish to > eliminate the =91wet compass=92 from my panel. I have dual AFS screens, with > dual AHARS, both with battery back-up. My question was why do I have to > have a wet compass? He said that there was no provision in the FARs to > allow it to be eliminated. He said the rules were written in the 60=92s or > before, and they had not been updated for current technologies. He said I > needed to write a letter to the FSDO or standards office in Oklahoma. Ha s > anyone done this? I=92d sure like to eliminate the compass cluttering up the > windscreen. > > > p.s. As a side note, I have lost my job. I hope to get reemployed befor e > I am required to sell the plane. If you know of anyone needing a sales a nd > marketing pro, please let me know. > > > Pete > > RV-10 Escalade - the never ending project. > > > > Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs > > From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> > > > I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required > > to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 > experimental > > engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And i f > 25 > > why instead of 40. > > Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the li st > > > if you would like. > > > Thanks Geoff > > > -------- > > Geoff Combs > > RV-10 QB N829GW > > Finishing > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 > > * > > =========== ========= > = > =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Subject: Re: re: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs (aerosport1)
Make that 91.205... Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Dave Saylor < dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote: > Pete, > > If your DAR is talking about 91.203(b)(3), it says you have to have a > magnetic direction indicator. Your AFS uses a (highly accurate) > magnetometer to display magnetic heading. Nothing says it has to be > non-electric, or that it has to be a wet compass. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA 95076 > 831-722-9141 Shop > 831-750-0284 Cell > > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Peter James wrote: > >> >> >> I spoke with my DAR about this very topic recently. His take on the >> situation was this: >> >> >> >> =B7 Even though my engine was certified, and my prop is a Hartze ll >> designed for the plane, the combination of the two had never appeared on a >> =93certified=94 on a production airplane. The combination to the best o f his >> knowledge had only appeared on an RV-10, which is an EXPEIMENTAL airplan e. >> Therefore, the combination still had to be considered experimental. Bas ed >> on this, he said that I was going to get 40 hours, like it or not. >> >> >> >> =B7 One interesting point that we discussed. He said the local >> FSDO here in Iowa was growing more lenient about the 25 mile radius for >> testing. He had discussed the flying speed of the RV-10 and said at the >> speeds we fly, it seemed that you were always =91turning left=92 to stay within >> the radius. Therefore, he had been given leniency to pick an airport 10 0 >> miles away and allow flight testing in a straight line to it. As exampl e, I >> will likely base out of Ankeny, Ia(ILV) and will request a destination o f >> Burlington, IA (BRL). In that line of flight, I will fly over Pella, >> Oskaloosa, Ottumwa, Fairfield, and Mt. Pleasant. There is always an air port >> nearby in case of emergency. Being that I have family in two of those >> cities, I will be able to stop for lunch during my flight testing time. >> >> >> >> =B7 One other area that I pressed him about was this: I wish to >> eliminate the =91wet compass=92 from my panel. I have dual AFS screens, with >> dual AHARS, both with battery back-up. My question was why do I have to >> have a wet compass? He said that there was no provision in the FARs to >> allow it to be eliminated. He said the rules were written in the 60=92s or >> before, and they had not been updated for current technologies. He said I >> needed to write a letter to the FSDO or standards office in Oklahoma. H as >> anyone done this? I=92d sure like to eliminate the compass cluttering u p the >> windscreen. >> >> >> >> p.s. As a side note, I have lost my job. I hope to get reemployed befo re >> I am required to sell the plane. If you know of anyone needing a sales and >> marketing pro, please let me know. >> >> >> >> Pete >> >> RV-10 Escalade - the never ending project. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Subject: RV10-List: Fly off time 25 hrs or 40hrs >> >> From: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> >> >> >> >> >> >> I am looking for some feed back on the hours that people were required >> >> to fly off if they had the stock 2 blade Hartzell prop and the DA45 >> experimental >> >> engine from Aerosport Power or other know builder. Was it 25 or 40. And if >> 25 >> >> why instead of 40. >> >> Just curious. I have heard both ways with this combo. Email me off the >> list >> >> if you would like. >> >> >> >> Thanks Geoff >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> Geoff Combs >> >> RV-10 QB N829GW >> >> Finishing >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275369#275369 >> >> * >> >> =========== ========= >> = >> =========== =========== >> >> * >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: QB Corrosion - Heads Up
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Place a call to Vans support (if you haven't already) they will give you their version of what to do, if nothing else they need to be aware of their priming issues. My concern is that a few years back I grabbed a rusted fence and completely removed everything, I applied a few different primers (rust oleum, DTM wask primer, etc) than painted over it with a exterior paint. 1 year later I discovered rust was developing again. All I can think of is that I didn't get it all- although I sure thought I had everything covered.. My point is you probably need to pull some panels out and see if there is anything else "hidden" if you don't you may very well find some more surprises later that will stread back to what you already did, no matter how well you do it now.. Pascal From: Perry, Phil Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:36 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB Corrosion - Heads Up Welcome back to work everyone. J After closer inspection yesterday I found more than a dozen areas of filiform intruding on the interior surfaces. I'm thinking I'll try and scrub out the corrosion then treat those areas with an alodine pen. After that I'll go ahead and shoot the entire interior with the same self etching primer I used in the tail (Variprime). Have any of you primed over the top of Vans wash primer? If so, what did you do to prep the area and how well did your primer adhere? Thanks for the help, Phil From: Perry, Phil Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Corrosion - Heads Up This is intended for those listers who recently received their QB's. I've had mine for nearly 2 months and have now started seeing filiform corrosion forming on some of the areas where wash primer was not properly applied. If you look at the surface of your aluminum, you might notice it does not have a uniform color. The darker patches are where the primer was not properly applied and the corrosion is occurring only in these darker areas. >From this point forward, I'm going to scotchbrite out the corrosion and chase it with rattle can primer. If you've got a recent kit, keep your eyes peeled and take a good hard look in the darker tinted areas. The corrosion I am seeing is white and each runner is around 1/8" long. Phil www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www. matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhtt p://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: control stick wiring
From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Chris, I routed my cable thru the stick. It took a little work but it can be done without a minimum bend radius issue. I can send pics if you are interested. To provide adequate clearance to the instrument panel the stick needs to be cut down too. Also the grips should be clocked to avoid an uncomfortable wrist twist. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275532#275532 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Why not use the weld-on? It isn't that hard to work with and you don't have to research compatibility and strength. Plexi expands and contracts differently than the fiberglass and sometimes you see cracks in the painted finish around the windows. A thin layer of glass over the joint and covering the overlap will help avoid the cracking in the paint. Smooth it in with your favorite fill. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275535#275535 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Weld-on was the worst product I've ever used in my life. The warning label makes MEK look like mouthwash. .Respirator, goggles, and gloves are essential. It sets too fast and it's too runny. Cabosil helps but cuts into your set time. Once it's dry, you will have a devil of a time getting the unwanted droppings off. I used it on the side windows but decided to try Silpruf 2000 for the windshield. I like the results so far and it's safe to work with. I know Dave Saylor did his with Silpruf so maybe he can chime in. John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel delivery soon. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275548#275548 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB Corrosion - Heads Up
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
Talked with Scott @ Vans and he suggested the process below. Just scrub out the corrosion, alodine, then prime. So that's the plan.... It'll probably be next weekend before I can get around to it. Phil From: Pascal [mailto:rv10builder(at)verizon.net] Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:29 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Corrosion - Heads Up Place a call to Vans support (if you haven't already) they will give you their version of what to do, if nothing else they need to be aware of their priming issues. My concern is that a few years back I grabbed a rusted fence and completely removed everything, I applied a few different primers (rust oleum, DTM wask primer, etc) than painted over it with a exterior paint. 1 year later I discovered rust was developing again. All I can think of is that I didn't get it all- although I sure thought I had everything covered.. My point is you probably need to pull some panels out and see if there is anything else "hidden" if you don't you may very well find some more surprises later that will stread back to what you already did, no matter how well you do it now.. Pascal From: Perry, Phil <mailto:Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:36 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB Corrosion - Heads Up Welcome back to work everyone. J After closer inspection yesterday I found more than a dozen areas of filiform intruding on the interior surfaces. I'm thinking I'll try and scrub out the corrosion then treat those areas with an alodine pen. After that I'll go ahead and shoot the entire interior with the same self etching primer I used in the tail (Variprime). Have any of you primed over the top of Vans wash primer? If so, what did you do to prep the area and how well did your primer adhere? Thanks for the help, Phil From: Perry, Phil Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Corrosion - Heads Up This is intended for those listers who recently received their QB's. I've had mine for nearly 2 months and have now started seeing filiform corrosion forming on some of the areas where wash primer was not properly applied. If you look at the surface of your aluminum, you might notice it does not have a uniform color. The darker patches are where the primer was not properly applied and the corrosion is occurring only in these darker areas. >From this point forward, I'm going to scotchbrite out the corrosion and chase it with rattle can primer. If you've got a recent kit, keep your eyes peeled and take a good hard look in the darker tinted areas. The corrosion I am seeing is white and each runner is around 1/8" long. Phil www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c h ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics . com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)iflyrv10.com>
Subject: Blatent commercial blurb
Date: Nov 30, 2009
sorry for wasted bandwidth, In case any are interested, ive added a bunch of new product and updated the website at IFLYRV10.COM thanks for all your support. Steven DiNieri capsteve(at)iflyrv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: windows & fiberglass
Cabosil? I'm getting ready to use this stuff despite the warnings but I didn't know you could used cabosil to thicken it. Is that part of the directions for use? Thanks. johngoodman wrote: > > Weld-on was the worst product I've ever used in my life. The warning label makes MEK look like mouthwash. .Respirator, goggles, and gloves are essential. It sets too fast and it's too runny. Cabosil helps but cuts into your set time. Once it's dry, you will have a devil of a time getting the unwanted droppings off. I used it on the side windows but decided to try Silpruf 2000 for the windshield. I like the results so far and it's safe to work with. I know Dave Saylor did his with Silpruf so maybe he can chime in. > John > > -------- > #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel delivery soon. > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275548#275548 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: SB 08-6-1
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Anyone finding any cracks? before or after the mod? We are still inspecting. if flying and before mod , how many hours? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SB 08-6-1
I suspect the only planes we would have ever seen these cracks on is the pl anes used for crosstraining.- These are the only planes doing a ton of st alls every month/year.- That being said, it's still-a mod worth doing. Don McDonald --- On Mon, 11/30/09, David McNeill wrote: From: David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net> Subject: RV10-List: SB 08-6-1 Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:34 PM Anyone finding any cracks? before or after the mod? We are still inspecting . if flying and before mod , how many hours? =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rear Seat - Removable Panel
From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2009
If you haven't installed the seat pan yet then you won't need an access panel. Install the antenna doubler with plate nuts added so you can screw in/out the antenna from the outside. Give yourself an extra loop of coax - enough coax to pull out the hole to disconnect. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275616#275616 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: SB 08-6-1
From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2009
Don is correct. Unless you retire the airplane to the recycle bin sooner or later you will have to do the SB; may as well do it sooner. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275618#275618 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2009
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
From: Eric Ekberg <etekberg(at)gmail.com>
I noticed the same thing with the departure procedures. Also, when I did a "just download the procedures that have changed", it did not pick up the revision to the departure procedures. When I did a "download them all" it did. I did bite on the lifetime subscription, but I am not the die-hard fan that Tim is. I only hope that there involvement with BK will lead to a better product. I download the pdfs from nacomatic.com as well as using voyager. Basically when I use the product I hear a little nagging voice in the back of my head that says that it is a POS, but I still refuse to listen to it. Afterall, I don't even have my IFR ticket yet, so what do I know? -Eric On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM, wrote: > I am becoming very concerned with the folks at Voyager. I purchased the > Skypad and the lifetime program and I have found both to be very capable, > with a few glitches. The departure procedures on the IFR charts apparently > cannot be accessed. Only the first page of the plate shows up and unlike the > AOPA version, you cannot scroll through. Secondly, the radar echoes and > clouds are very intermittently displayed. They seem like very nice folks, > but have been unresponsive to my emails, phone calls, and even failed to > have a scheduled teleconference with me. I am concerned about the overall > health of the company and I will continue to attempt to get my questions > answered. In the event that I am successful I will place a post. If anyone > else has had a different experience, I would love to hear about it. I have > spoken to the secretary who assures me that I will be contacted by a > technical person, but I do not receive a contact. I am not upset at the > company as I do feel it is a good value, I am just concerned about whether > they will continue to function and what will happen to these life time > subscriptions and equipment should they fail to be able to provide support. > If you are considering purchase you may wish to take this into > consideration. > Jim Rore > > > -----Original Message----- > From: orchidman <gary(at)wingscc.com> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:55 am > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only > > > Tim Olson wrote: > > Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER > > on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. > > Tim > > The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscriptions. > They screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still > on their books. Otherwise I might have jumped on it. > Maybe next year if they offer it again. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078 > > > =================================== > =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com > m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > =================================== > tp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: All metal aircraft...
...not. I will never refer to the RV10 as an "all metal" aircraft again. Bill "wants to say one word to you, just one word" Watson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: All metal aircraft...
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Its at least 51 percent metal!!! ------Original Message------ From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Dec 1, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: All metal aircraft... ....not. I will never refer to the RV10 as an "all metal" aircraft again. Bill "wants to say one word to you, just one word" Watson Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Personally, I never managed to establish 'personal minimums'. So many variables. How proficient I was at a given point in time played a large role. The FAA requirements are minimal. Flying a couple of meaningful flights earlier in the same day = real proficiency. Flying privately, one has total control and mainly has to manage "get there-itis". No small feat. Especially with passengers. Especially with fellow pilots. Perceived pressure, internal pressure, and the distraction factor all play parts. The trick is to eliminate most of it and recognize distractions for what they are and manage them. My best aid is an experienced life partner who almost always flies shotgun. Variables - approach to minimums in a stable or lifting situation with easy alternates is one thing. An evening approach to minimums where you know from experience that it may change to an unforecast ground fog at any moment at any airport within 200 miles is another. Familiarity - doing the procedure at your home 'port is a lot easier than a first one at a new 'port. When you know the next freq before told and the probable vector before given, it's all easier. Doing it in your personal aircraft versus a rental - Heaven! Departures vs Approaches - We tend to focus on and talk about "approaches to minimums". But approaches always occur after you've had a chance to fully adjust the sound and feel of flight. One of the toughest things I discovered is departures into IMC, especially if it's the first flight of the day/week/month. One day I did 2 VMC takeoffs after a duct tape patch to some scat tubing. The third takeoff was into a 500' ceiling for a 100% IMC flight of 1.5 hours. As soon as I lifted off I smelled smoke and then it sounded like a cylinder was slightly missing. I later concluded that the cylinder was just "over water roughness" and the 'smoke' was the smell that was there on takeoffs 1 and 2 and 4 and 5 and 6... that is, until the duct tape patch stopped smelling. I only noticed it because of the IMC departure. Just nerves. Bill "can't wait for an autopilot" Watson Jesse Saint wrote: > > This brings up another question. What are people using for "personal minimums"? Some I've talked to say they'll go if they have circling minimums. Others say 1,000 feet. Some say that with family they will only go if their destination is VFR. I felt comfortable shooting the approach when the METAR was MVFR. I would certainly feel comfortable lower with another pilot than I would solo. This pole, at least for my info, would be single pilot IFR with an autopilot (just for conversation, say it's an autopilot with GPS Nav or Steering and Altitude Hold, but no coupling, so the equivalent of the Digiflight II non-V). > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On Dec 1, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: FS: Heated Pitot and Mount
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I have a brand new Falcon Heated Pitot for sale with the standard pitot mount. Falcon part number is AN5812, Aircraft Spruce Part Number 10-00984 and sells for $476.95 and the standard mount, Aircraft Spruce Part Number 10-01063 and sells for $31.75. Total Cost = $508.70, I'll sell for $400 and I'll pay shipping in the continental US. Email if interested, thanks! -Mike Kraus Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: FS: AOA Pro from AFS
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I have a New Old Stock Advanced Flight Systems AOA Pro for sale. The unit has been partially installed, but never powered up. All the wiring is new and the harness is uncut as received from the factory. The 'brain box' was mechanically installed in my project for the last 2 years, but never wired up. The display was mechanically installed, but never wired or powered up. This unit sells for $1495 new, I'll sell for an even $1,000 and I'll pay shipping in the continental US. Email if interested -Mike Kraus Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
I did 100% of my IMC flying without an AP but I probably won't do anymore intentionally. I agree it should be considered required for us non-pros. Not because we are amateurs but because most of us don't fly enough to stay truly proficient with those kinds of operations. I know I can hand fly a simple, slow, draggy Maule in 'hard' turbulent IMC at a time when I flew and filed practically EVERY week. It's nice to know I can do it, but I'm probably done with it. I'm sure those freight dog types could do it safely all day long. It's called work. I'd give a lot for a mission and the $$ to fly every week again! Bill "never learned to fly to ATP standards on purpose" Watson Tim Olson wrote: > > The Autopilot is essential. Ya ya ya, you should be able > to hand fly. Fine, we all know that. But, when you > get task loaded, nothing helps more than hitting a couple > buttons until you can get your head together. You can't > blindly trust the autopilot, either, but it really should > be a requirement IMHO for single-pilot ops, to have one > on board that works. At least when ceilings are lower > than VFR. When I got my IFR ticket I don't think I had > an AP in the plane, but it was my first purchase before > I'd take the family in IMC. At the time, I spent $5-7000 > for an S-Tec and it was money well spent. The TruTrak > is far nicer. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I don't mean to offend anyone, but: IMHO you should not be flying IFR unless you are personally current. I don't mean legally; I mean that at that moment, you could pass a check ride to PTS standards, including hand-flown approaches to minimums. So I don't like the idea of personal minimums; either you can fly to published minimums, or you can't (in which case you shouldn't be up there at all). Obviously you need to consider the weather, especially turbulence, in deciding whether to do the approach at all. Just as the PTS allows some leeway for worse than average conditions. BTW, the hardest part is the last 200 vertical feet, if the visibility is only 1/2 mile - especially if it's dark. And you need to hand fly that anyway, at least at some point. I'm a part time CFII, and give a fair number of IPC's. My observation: pilots who come to me are rusty; but those pilots who regularly fly behind an autopilot are really rusty. I plan to put an autopilot in my -10, it's a great fatigue reliever. But I'm not sure I will couple it for approaches. Here in California I just don't get that much actual, I need to hand fly every one to keep current (plus some hood practice, for unusual attitudes, steep turns, etc.). For 2 pilots (or even a passenger you trust): You are the PIC, and you should clearly tell the copilot what you expect. I find the following works well for an ILS: I ask the copilot to call out altitudes above DA(H) (1000 feet to go; 500' to go; 200' to go; DA) (I watch too!). I also ask the copilot to call out "runway in sight" or "approach lights in sight". PIC flies the gauges, and does not look up until he hears the copilot has the runway or lights. If you reach DA(H) without hearing that, you start the miss, never leaving the instruments. PS What kind of a cfii would not notice the aircraft turning 180 degrees? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275819#275819 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Weyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Pitot For Sale
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I've got a chrome 24v heated pitot and extension/mount I'll sell for $250 + actual shipping charges. Was on a certified airplane. Looks like new and is georgeous! I was going to use it on my ten but since I'm not IFR certified, and never will be, decided to go with stainless 1/4 tubing instead...plus the tubing is lighter. Pics available. Chuck 805 878-1922 Santa Maria, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 02, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I don't think anyone is suggesting that a pilot shouldn't be able to hand fly the airplane to minimums; but just suggesting that the use of the autopilot tremendously reduces risk. The AP doesn't get distracted, doesn't have to flip charts, and doesn't have to press buttons in turbulence. It's a valuable tool to greatly reduce the workload and significantly reduce risk. The higher personal minimums are simply a way to manage the environment in which we choose to take risks. The good thing about flying is that we have the opportunity to choose the weather - just not the time. We get to choose the operating environment that lets us handle any issues (missed forecasts, INOP AP's, INOP EFIS, power failures, .....) or combination of issues when @$@! hits the fan. I completely agree that you should be prepared to hand fly an approach to minimums. But because a pilot can fly it by hand doesn't mean it's smart. We owe it to our families, friends, and fellow pilots to use all the tools we can to reduce the risks. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: IFR I don't mean to offend anyone, but: IMHO you should not be flying IFR unless you are personally current. I don't mean legally; I mean that at that moment, you could pass a check ride to PTS standards, including hand-flown approaches to minimums. So I don't like the idea of personal minimums; either you can fly to published minimums, or you can't (in which case you shouldn't be up there at all). Obviously you need to consider the weather, especially turbulence, in deciding whether to do the approach at all. Just as the PTS allows some leeway for worse than average conditions. BTW, the hardest part is the last 200 vertical feet, if the visibility is only 1/2 mile - especially if it's dark. And you need to hand fly that anyway, at least at some point. I'm a part time CFII, and give a fair number of IPC's. My observation: pilots who come to me are rusty; but those pilots who regularly fly behind an autopilot are really rusty. I plan to put an autopilot in my -10, it's a great fatigue reliever. But I'm not sure I will couple it for approaches. Here in California I just don't get that much actual, I need to hand fly every one to keep current (plus some hood practice, for unusual attitudes, steep turns, etc.). For 2 pilots (or even a passenger you trust): You are the PIC, and you should clearly tell the copilot what you expect. I find the following works well for an ILS: I ask the copilot to call out altitudes above DA(H) (1000 feet to go; 500' to go; 200' to go; DA) (I watch too!). I also ask the copilot to call out "runway in sight" or "approach lights in sight". PIC flies the gauges, and does not look up until he hears the copilot has the runway or lights. If you reach DA(H) without hearing that, you start the miss, never leaving the instruments. PS What kind of a cfii would not notice the aircraft turning 180 degrees? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275819#275819 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 02, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
Let me rephrase that for a second... We get to choose the weather forecast - just not the time. Phil <-- Brain operating at a different speed than fingers. -----Original Message----- From: Perry, Phil Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR I don't think anyone is suggesting that a pilot shouldn't be able to hand fly the airplane to minimums; but just suggesting that the use of the autopilot tremendously reduces risk. The AP doesn't get distracted, doesn't have to flip charts, and doesn't have to press buttons in turbulence. It's a valuable tool to greatly reduce the workload and significantly reduce risk. The higher personal minimums are simply a way to manage the environment in which we choose to take risks. The good thing about flying is that we have the opportunity to choose the weather - just not the time. We get to choose the operating environment that lets us handle any issues (missed forecasts, INOP AP's, INOP EFIS, power failures, .....) or combination of issues when @$@! hits the fan. I completely agree that you should be prepared to hand fly an approach to minimums. But because a pilot can fly it by hand doesn't mean it's smart. We owe it to our families, friends, and fellow pilots to use all the tools we can to reduce the risks. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: IFR I don't mean to offend anyone, but: IMHO you should not be flying IFR unless you are personally current. I don't mean legally; I mean that at that moment, you could pass a check ride to PTS standards, including hand-flown approaches to minimums. So I don't like the idea of personal minimums; either you can fly to published minimums, or you can't (in which case you shouldn't be up there at all). Obviously you need to consider the weather, especially turbulence, in deciding whether to do the approach at all. Just as the PTS allows some leeway for worse than average conditions. BTW, the hardest part is the last 200 vertical feet, if the visibility is only 1/2 mile - especially if it's dark. And you need to hand fly that anyway, at least at some point. I'm a part time CFII, and give a fair number of IPC's. My observation: pilots who come to me are rusty; but those pilots who regularly fly behind an autopilot are really rusty. I plan to put an autopilot in my -10, it's a great fatigue reliever. But I'm not sure I will couple it for approaches. Here in California I just don't get that much actual, I need to hand fly every one to keep current (plus some hood practice, for unusual attitudes, steep turns, etc.). For 2 pilots (or even a passenger you trust): You are the PIC, and you should clearly tell the copilot what you expect. I find the following works well for an ILS: I ask the copilot to call out altitudes above DA(H) (1000 feet to go; 500' to go; 200' to go; DA) (I watch too!). I also ask the copilot to call out "runway in sight" or "approach lights in sight". PIC flies the gauges, and does not look up until he hears the copilot has the runway or lights. If you reach DA(H) without hearing that, you start the miss, never leaving the instruments. PS What kind of a cfii would not notice the aircraft turning 180 degrees? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275819#275819 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: "lbgjb10" <lbgjb(at)gnt.net>
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Jesse--I remember when I got my rating in the early 60's--my dad, old WWII (the last good, winning one, unless you count Granada) pilot, said, put the ticket on the glare shield and hope God see's it, as I was boarding my Tripacer with a whistle stop tuning radio!!!! Try an approach to mins. (VFR with instructor) and have him fail your instruments except your basic backup, add a little turbulence and it can really change your minimums. 500/1 mile gives you some margin of error. Your problem will be staying really current with winter and icing, and with summer boomers in FL not very conducive to 'fun' IFR. Best and most fun IFR I had was living on the west coast with marine layer, smooth clouds with decent ceilings--made you feel like a real hot shot. Just be careful our there. Larry -------- Larry and Gayle N104LG Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275832#275832 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Dec 02, 2009
"I completely agree that you should be prepared to hand fly an approach to minimums. But because a pilot can fly it by hand doesn't mean it's smart. We owe it to our families, friends, and fellow pilots to use all the tools we can to reduce the risks." I agree with this statement. It's certainly what the airlines do. But in the real world, most GA pilots just don't get enough practice hand flying, nor do they do the recurrent training the airlines do, so in fact they're not prepared to hand fly. (I once had a pilot doing an IPC tell me that if the autopilot quit, he would declare an emergency (in a 182!). Surely he was not up to standards, but was betting his life on the autopilot). So the question becomes, what is the greater risk: That I'll screw up a hand flown approach so badly that it results in an accident? Or that I'll become so rusty that an autopilot failure will lead to an accident? (Or that I'll be so out of the loop that an accident results, even if the autopilot works.) The last fatal ifr accident at my home airport (KLVK) was an autopilot/out of the loop-induced one: pilot put the autopilot in descent mode and then just forgot about it. Rusty pilots trusting autopilots often find themselves out of the loop. So I do think it's important to stay really current, not just trust the machines. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275839#275839 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
From: William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
There are fights worth fighting, but I wouldn't consider ANY war a "good war" won or lost. Please explain how 500/1 "give you some margin of error" when you are in the clouds? Going missed at some arbitrary minimum requires more maneuvering (and thus more risk) than just aligning the needles and continuing to PUBLISHED minimums. On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM, lbgjb10 wrote: > > Jesse--I remember when I got my rating in the early 60's--my dad, old WWII > (the last good, winning one, unless you count Granada) pilot, said, put the > ticket on the glare shield and hope God see's it, as I was boarding my > Tripacer with a whistle stop tuning radio!!!! Try an approach to mins. (VFR > with instructor) and have him fail your instruments except your basic > backup, add a little turbulence and it can really change your minimums. > 500/1 mile gives you some margin of error. Your problem will be staying > really current with winter and icing, and with summer boomers in FL not very > conducive to 'fun' IFR. Best and most fun IFR I had was living on the west > coast with marine layer, smooth clouds with decent ceilings--made you feel > like a real hot shot. Just be careful our there. Larry > > -------- > Larry and Gayle N104LG > > > -- > William > N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Agreed. The AP is a great enroute tool to relax and study the alternatives and approach material. Although my AP can fly the approaches to the MDA/DH, I plan on using it for enroute only and to teach my family member non pilots how to use it to get down if I were incapacitated. My first two approaches in the 10 were to minimums and that unexpectedly. Arriving at RNO during last summer, I expected the usual "cleared for the visual" when the ATIS informed me that visibility was hovering about 1 1/4 mile in smoke. (the approach has been changed to have substantially higher minimums.)The CA fires turned the visual into a minimum visibility ILS 16R. This was a "vectors to final" with a B737 cleared for takeoff while I was still 2-3 miles out and a B737 behind me being vectored back and forth across the localizer because of the speed difference. When I called runway in sight at about 1 mile, the B737 behind me was cleared to land. I made the first high speed turnoff. The second approach was at MYJ ; I was in the right seat allowing my VFR fellow builder fly the aircraft on my II. It was severe clear until about 30 miles out of MYJ. We entered rain and cloud. MKC center gave MYJ as 400 OVC and 1M in moderate rain. I was cleared for the RNAV 6 and began the approach ( a little fast) I told my left seater that I was going o call minimums and that he was to look for the airport and take over and land the aircraft if able. I called minimums and he said "your airplane"; I proceed to slip the aircraft to the threshold and began flying level to reduce speed. His immediate response was "Don't skid" (standing water on the runway). I responded by answering "anti skid armed" we touched down about halfway down the 5500 runway and the brakes were not required as the wind milling prop slowed us nicely. Neither approaches were flown with the AP. The approaches were to minimums. Minimums were not expected. If you need an AP to fly an approach you probably should not be in IMC. We fly with multiple backups for PFD, MFD, EIS, and batteries but only one AP. Therefore the AP should be the backup for the pilot acting as PIC. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:38 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR I don't think anyone is suggesting that a pilot shouldn't be able to hand fly the airplane to minimums; but just suggesting that the use of the autopilot tremendously reduces risk. The AP doesn't get distracted, doesn't have to flip charts, and doesn't have to press buttons in turbulence. It's a valuable tool to greatly reduce the workload and significantly reduce risk. The higher personal minimums are simply a way to manage the environment in which we choose to take risks. The good thing about flying is that we have the opportunity to choose the weather - just not the time. We get to choose the operating environment that lets us handle any issues (missed forecasts, INOP AP's, INOP EFIS, power failures, .....) or combination of issues when @$@! hits the fan. I completely agree that you should be prepared to hand fly an approach to minimums. But because a pilot can fly it by hand doesn't mean it's smart. We owe it to our families, friends, and fellow pilots to use all the tools we can to reduce the risks. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: IFR I don't mean to offend anyone, but: IMHO you should not be flying IFR unless you are personally current. I don't mean legally; I mean that at that moment, you could pass a check ride to PTS standards, including hand-flown approaches to minimums. So I don't like the idea of personal minimums; either you can fly to published minimums, or you can't (in which case you shouldn't be up there at all). Obviously you need to consider the weather, especially turbulence, in deciding whether to do the approach at all. Just as the PTS allows some leeway for worse than average conditions. BTW, the hardest part is the last 200 vertical feet, if the visibility is only 1/2 mile - especially if it's dark. And you need to hand fly that anyway, at least at some point. I'm a part time CFII, and give a fair number of IPC's. My observation: pilots who come to me are rusty; but those pilots who regularly fly behind an autopilot are really rusty. I plan to put an autopilot in my -10, it's a great fatigue reliever. But I'm not sure I will couple it for approaches. Here in California I just don't get that much actual, I need to hand fly every one to keep current (plus some hood practice, for unusual attitudes, steep turns, etc.). For 2 pilots (or even a passenger you trust): You are the PIC, and you should clearly tell the copilot what you expect. I find the following works well for an ILS: I ask the copilot to call out altitudes above DA(H) (1000 feet to go; 500' to go; 200' to go; DA) (I watch too!). I also ask the copilot to call out "runway in sight" or "approach lights in sight". PIC flies the gauges, and does not look up until he hears the copilot has the runway or lights. If you reach DA(H) without hearing that, you start the miss, never leaving the instruments. PS What kind of a cfii would not notice the aircraft turning 180 degrees? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275819#275819 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Jesse I had always viewed single engine IFR as a rather crazy affair (crazy as in "I'm crazy to be doing this"). Having said that I have had a rating for over 30 years, flown some multi engine, but just don't have a lot of experience. About 12 years ago I bought my first aircraft (Cessna Cardinal ) and started flying single engine, no auto pilot IFR. I decided on a personal minimun of 700 and 1 so as to give me a chance to pick out a spot to go should my engine hic cup. I'm sure you will get a thousand different opinions on this subject. With your well equipped -10 I would pick set a personal minimum and then slowly work lower to a point you are comfortable with. Congrats and good luck. Please be cautious. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:00 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR > > This brings up another question. What are people using for "personal > minimums"? Some I've talked to say they'll go if they have circling > minimums. Others say 1,000 feet. Some say that with family they will > only go if their destination is VFR. I felt comfortable shooting the > approach when the METAR was MVFR. I would certainly feel comfortable > lower with another pilot than I would solo. This pole, at least for my > info, would be single pilot IFR with an autopilot (just for conversation, > say it's an autopilot with GPS Nav or Steering and Altitude Hold, but no > coupling, so the equivalent of the Digiflight II non-V). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 03, 2009
As I embark on the IFR ticket this post is worth a bunch to me. Since my -10 is well equipped for IFR flight, testing all those functions have been part if wringing out the airplane, I appreciate the technology of my avionics and having shot some ILS approaches two weeks ago I can say this aircraft "hand flies" really nice. I like "flying" the airplane and I like the fact that if needed there is a backup to "me" My humble thought regarding IFR flight personal minimums are not so much terminating the approach but understanding your own skills..I had 130 hours of 172 time prior to flying my RV...I had to graduate to a high performance pilot and I recall my first take off as holy crap I'm about to blow through pattern altitude and my head is still a 1/2 mile behind me!! With that said and a good 30 hours of instruction from three good friends/CFI's who loved to jump in and fly with me on my much appreciated fuel bill, I feel very proficient in the RV now...Where am I going with this is that the AP was only used to make sure it worked properly during systems checks..I was informed that the F-100 AP stunk but the F-16 was good enough for formation work...but C.T., my friend/ retired USAF fighter jock Colonel/ CFI and in good enough shape to kick my butt in his 70's told me you'll never get good if you don't fly the airplane..and you wont stay good at it if you let those avionics fly it for you...I feel good point to point and running down the LOC/GS.....but I agree the IFR ticket is the Masters Degree to the PPL..looking forward to the challenge!! Gotta say since I finished building it's nice to see a flying post!!! The vertical stab build seems so far in the past now...and I love seeing the new builders fielding the same questions Tim, Scott, Deems, John Cox before he took that vocabulary class that turned him into what he is now, myself and others from the defunct Yahoo days were bouncing off each other have not changed..the only thing missing is the long lost James McClow..I .never liked clowns till I ! met Jimm y Mac!! He was the reason spell check was invented...(Deems too! Sorry buddy) Rick S. 40185.....N246RS Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I too am in the last stages of earning my IFR ticket. It is one of the most challenging things I have ever done. I am doing it in a 172 with no GPS or AP. It has an ADF :-( I appreciate all the posts on the subject. But I have a building question. Stein is building me a fine G900 panel. However, the panel does not have the small flanges on the lower sides to rivet onto the side skins. Have others with this panel made brackets or not connected it at all? Christer at Steinair said he has not heard how or if anyone is accomplishing this. Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA Muskego, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR > > As I embark on the IFR ticket this post is worth a bunch to me. Since > my -10 is well equipped for IFR flight, testing all those functions have > been part if wringing out the airplane, I appreciate the technology of my > avionics and having shot some ILS approaches two weeks ago I can say this > aircraft "hand flies" really nice. I like "flying" the airplane and I like > the fact that if needed there is a backup to "me" My humble thought > regarding IFR flight personal minimums are not so much terminating the > approach but understanding your own skills..I had 130 hours of 172 time > prior to flying my RV...I had to graduate to a high performance pilot and > I recall my first take off as holy crap I'm about to blow through pattern > altitude and my head is still a 1/2 mile behind me!! With that said and a > good 30 hours of instruction from three good friends/CFI's who loved to > jump in and fly with me on my much appreciated fuel bill, I feel very > proficient in the RV now...Where am I going w! > ith this is that the AP was only used to make sure it worked properly > during systems checks..I was informed that the F-100 AP stunk but the F-16 > was good enough for formation work...but C.T., my friend/ retired USAF > fighter jock Colonel/ CFI and in good enough shape to kick my butt in his > 70's told me you'll never get good if you don't fly the airplane..and you > wont stay good at it if you let those avionics fly it for you...I feel > good point to point and running down the LOC/GS.....but I agree the IFR > ticket is the Masters Degree to the PPL..looking forward to the > challenge!! Gotta say since I finished building it's nice to see a flying > post!!! The vertical stab build seems so far in the past now...and I love > seeing the new builders fielding the same questions Tim, Scott, Deems, > John Cox before he took that vocabulary class that turned him into what he > is now, myself and others from the defunct Yahoo days were bouncing off > each other have not changed..the only thing missin! > g is the long lost James McClow..I .never liked clowns till I ! > met Jimm > y > Mac!! He was the reason spell check was invented...(Deems too! Sorry > buddy) > > Rick S. > 40185.....N246RS > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
Jesse, thanks! This has been a great thread with lots of things I can relate to. I thought I'd toss in my two cents. I got my IFR rating just before I started building my 10. Like a lot of people I didn't fly much while I was building, and certainly no IFR. I always figured the panel I was building would make IFR a breeze compared to the steam gauge 172 single axis AP I learned in. I was wrong about that, at least initially. Tim pointed out that figuring out all the button pushing is a job in itself and I couldn't agree more. My panel is pretty typical if even on the light side these days: Single AFS EFIS, 530, VSGV (recently became an AFS AP), D10A and mechanical AS for backups. We recently went from a 496 to a 696. One of the most important mods we made was to install autotrim. I'd say that cut the workload on approach by at least 30%. Totally worth the effort. I wasn't at all prepared for how much learning the equipment required. I tried to get IFR current as soon as phase I was finished but soon realized that between sorting out bugs and configuring things like I wanted it, the plane was changing too fast for me to keep up. The changes were mostly in how the EFIS interacted with the autopilot. My CFI made me do a lot of hand flying, which was very valuable, but I scared myself once attempting an approach and decided I wouldn't go IFR without knowing exactly how the autopilot worked and how to tell if it was lying to me. I was so far in the dark that a lot of times I couldn't tell the difference. I can't say enough about how AFS has supported their products. They've been responsive to problems, sometimes providing new software the same day, and now with their AP working well, it's everything (and more) that was promised. Six months ago I got serious about an IPC. I just recently finished that, and I feel good about flying IFR, although I have to admit that all the actual since then has been with other current IFR pilots on board. I'm based in perfect IFR training country. We have a nice, gentle, predictable marine layer 3-5 days a week, and 6 approaches to three different airports within 20 miles. And we can talk to Approach from the runup area. Plug Warning!! Instrument Flight Solutions is where I train (next door). They're Experimental-friendly and up to speed on several different EFIS and TruTrak products. Give them a call if you need a good CFII. Last weekend we returned from Yuma, AZ, knowing there was weather in Central CA. We (my wife and I--she's a B767 capt) filed in flight 20 miles from the IMC. We could see a lot of the route, but we going in and out of the tops at 12000. I had my first encounter with rime ice, which would attach as we passed through the tops and then sublimate after we were in the clear. That was a little hairy but it didn't seem to affect performance. Our home base was VFR so we didn't need to do an approach. It took me a solid six months of frequent training to get comfortable with my glass panel. I can tell now when something's not set up right, or when the hardware is misbehaving. That was not the case at first. As the builder and designer of the panel, it's very tempting to try to troubleshoot as soon as something seems wrong. I'm trying to break that habit and just fly the airplane. Everybody, take your time, fly safe, and don't expect all those gizmos to feel natural right out of the box. They take some getting used to, but once you put in the effort it does finally start to feel right. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC N921AC 540 hours, down this week for the 500 hour mag inspection, wow, already?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
I love the sound of flying RV10s! My experience conforms to Dave and Tim's - learning the equipment is a big deal. I'm flying a very basic G300XL panel in the Maule and I found that took an inordinate amount of time to learn and re-learn the proper button pushing sequence for real life IFR flying. I did an 'accelerated' multi rating (i.e. minimal) with a G430. Didn't even come close to learning that box in a meaningful way. In both instances, falling back to basic Nav Comms and needles worked fine but the un-mastered GPS is like a sick, whining passenger with grabby hands - you have to put 'em in the back seat and select isolate on the audio panel lest you be led into chaos. But the panels we are putting in now don't even allow that. I'm looking forward to the big learning curve involved in learning to fly my new panel. I just don't know how a non-IFR trained pilot can easily design a good experimental panel. Getting the rating and ideally flying some real flights before spec'ing the panel would help but it's tough to do while building. Getting a Garmin G900 bundle is one solution. Building a basic panel with the intent to upgrade and refine is another. Copying a design that is known to work well is another. Trying to design a good custom IFR panel from the fantastic grab bag of equipment out there seems really tough. Bill "looking forward to seeing my old Maule panel builder tonight at KRDU" Watson Dave Saylor wrote: > Jesse, thanks! This has been a great thread with lots of things I can > relate to. I thought I'd toss in my two cents. > > I got my IFR rating just before I started building my 10. Like a lot > of people I didn't fly much while I was building, and certainly no > IFR. I always figured the panel I was building would make IFR a > breeze compared to the steam gauge 172 single axis AP I learned in. I > was wrong about that, at least initially. > > Tim pointed out that figuring out all the button pushing is a job in > itself and I couldn't agree more. My panel is pretty typical if even > on the light side these days: Single AFS EFIS, 530, VSGV (recently > became an AFS AP), D10A and mechanical AS for backups. We recently > went from a 496 to a 696. > > One of the most important mods we made was to install autotrim. I'd > say that cut the workload on approach by at least 30%. Totally worth > the effort. > > I wasn't at all prepared for how much learning the equipment > required. I tried to get IFR current as soon as phase I was finished > but soon realized that between sorting out bugs and configuring things > like I wanted it, the plane was changing too fast for me to keep up. > The changes were mostly in how the EFIS interacted with the > autopilot. My CFI made me do a lot of hand flying, which was very > valuable, but I scared myself once attempting an approach and decided > I wouldn't go IFR without knowing exactly how the autopilot worked and > how to tell if it was lying to me. I was so far in the dark that a > lot of times I couldn't tell the difference. > > I can't say enough about how AFS has supported their products. > They've been responsive to problems, sometimes providing new software > the same day, and now with their AP working well, it's everything (and > more) that was promised. > > Six months ago I got serious about an IPC. I just recently finished > that, and I feel good about flying IFR, although I have to admit that > all the actual since then has been with other current IFR pilots on > board. I'm based in perfect IFR training country. We have a nice, > gentle, predictable marine layer 3-5 days a week, and 6 approaches to > three different airports within 20 miles. And we can talk to Approach > from the runup area. Plug Warning!! Instrument Flight Solutions is > where I train (next door). They're Experimental-friendly and up to > speed on several different EFIS and TruTrak products. Give them a > call if you need a good CFII. > > Last weekend we returned from Yuma, AZ, knowing there was weather in > Central CA. We (my wife and I--she's a B767 capt) filed in flight 20 > miles from the IMC. We could see a lot of the route, but we going in > and out of the tops at 12000. I had my first encounter with rime ice, > which would attach as we passed through the tops and then sublimate > after we were in the clear. That was a little hairy but it didn't > seem to affect performance. Our home base was VFR so we didn't need > to do an approach. > > It took me a solid six months of frequent training to get comfortable > with my glass panel. I can tell now when something's not set up > right, or when the hardware is misbehaving. That was not the case at > first. As the builder and designer of the panel, it's very tempting > to try to troubleshoot as soon as something seems wrong. I'm trying > to break that habit and just fly the airplane. > > Everybody, take your time, fly safe, and don't expect all those gizmos > to feel natural right out of the box. They take some getting used to, > but once you put in the effort it does finally start to feel right. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > > N921AC 540 hours, down this week for the 500 hour mag inspection, > wow, already?? > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
This discussion has been most helpful in putting some things in perspective for making panel and equipment choices. I have found that GPS in my IFR flying is extremely demanding of mental processing time, and when the chips are down it is much easier to revert to the ingrained training with VORs and ADF. No buttons to push, no screens to select..just twist knobs, verify station and follow the needle. So choice of EFIS and MFD are going to focus on ease of logic and minimum button pushing. I don't want to have to rely on an autopilot to fly the plane while I sort out all the buttons. I can just see flying along with 12:00 flashing on the panels like so many VCRs. No question the EFIS displays reduce how much panel real estate has to be scanned. Looks like need 2nd battery just to power the avionics for programing session prior to engine start. I guess that makes kick the tires and light the fires methods somewhat obsolete. Reminds me of one IFR fight done on last minute decision over very familiar route, with near zero preparation. Launch and start figuring the numbers for first reporting point, as yes, I was flying a non-transponder airplane over a route that was 2/3 non-radar anyway. E6B and chart for fast figuring estimates between reporting points. Good thing that had VFR at both ends of flight and a lot of enroute was in on top conditions. Yeah, the "good" old days more than 25 years ago. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > > > I love the sound of flying RV10s! > > My experience conforms to Dave and Tim's - learning the equipment is a big > deal. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top?
The plans have you install this pin from the bottom, which seems odd. Also, this requires securing the pin from falling and possibly removing the wheel pants to insert the pin. However, has anyone installed the pin from the top of the leg? It looks like it might work and less worry about the pin falling out. Thanks, Jae 40533 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
That's why I try to base my panel designs around a very well-proven and widely-used IFR GPS (like the 430 or the 530). The most recent panel I did has a Dynon D-180 (with HS-34 and Ap-74 Autopilot), a GNS-430W that cross-fills onto a 696 in the stack. Electrical system is a VP-200. Garmin backup COM, Xpndr and Audio Panel. Also a 496 for the copilot to fiddle with (apparently she likes to push buttons). Input the flight plan into the 430 (CFI's everywhere know and training planes everywhere have this GPS/NAV/COM to train you in it), and you have it on the HSI on the Dynon, the 696 and the 496 automatically. It is definitely a MUST to learn the equipment before you try to fly IMC behind it. A good way to learn is to find someone who has your equipment and see when they are going to be going on a x-cty flight with an open copilot seat. Ask if you can ride along and watch how they work the instruments (simulated or actual IMC). Also, do plenty of simulated before you try actual. I now have about 180 RV-10 hours, plenty under the hood and some right seat actual before I went off on my own. I would like to think I know the instruments inside and out. Knowing how to use the FPL button correctly is huge, then it is much easier to follow the needles (and magenta line) and know they are giving good information. In short, I agree completely that knowing the instruments, and WELL, is absolutely crucial! Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Dec 3, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > This discussion has been most helpful in putting some things in > perspective for making panel and equipment choices. I have found that > GPS in my IFR flying is extremely demanding of mental processing time, > and when the chips are down it is much easier to revert to the > ingrained training with VORs and ADF. No buttons to push, no screens > to select..just twist knobs, verify station and follow the needle. > So choice of EFIS and MFD are going to focus on ease of logic and > minimum button pushing. I don't want to have to rely on an autopilot > to fly the plane while I sort out all the buttons. I can just see > flying along with 12:00 flashing on the panels like so many VCRs. > No question the EFIS displays reduce how much panel real estate has to > be scanned. Looks like need 2nd battery just to power the avionics for > programing session prior to engine start. I guess that makes kick the > tires and light the fires methods somewhat obsolete. Reminds me of one > IFR fight done on last minute decision over very familiar route, with > near zero preparation. Launch and start figuring the numbers for first > reporting point, as yes, I was flying a non-transponder airplane over > a route that was 2/3 non-radar anyway. E6B and chart for fast figuring > estimates between reporting points. Good thing that had VFR at both > ends of flight and a lot of enroute was in on top conditions. Yeah, > the "good" old days more than 25 years ago. > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson > wrote: >> >> >> I love the sound of flying RV10s! >> >> My experience conforms to Dave and Tim's - learning the equipment is a big >> deal. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top?
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 03, 2009
>From the bottom, the pin is kept in place by the lower fairing... ------Original Message------ From: Jae Chang Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Dec 3, 2009 7:33 AM Subject: RV10-List: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top? The plans have you install this pin from the bottom, which seems odd. Also, this requires securing the pin from falling and possibly removing the wheel pants to insert the pin. However, has anyone installed the pin from the top of the leg? It looks like it might work and less worry about the pin falling out. Thanks, Jae 40533 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top?
Date: Dec 03, 2009
I installed mine from the top and that works fine for me. Kevin Belue RV-10 flying RV-6A flying Sent from my iPhone On Dec 3, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Jae Chang wrote: > > > > The plans have you install this pin from the bottom, which seems > odd. Also, this requires securing the pin from falling and possibly > removing the wheel pants to insert the pin. > > However, has anyone installed the pin from the top of the leg? It > looks like it might work and less worry about the pin falling out. > > Thanks, > Jae > 40533 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top?
I also install mine from the top.... works fine. Don McDonald --- On Thu, 12/3/09, Kevin Belue wrote: From: Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top? Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 8:50 AM I installed mine from the top and that works fine for me. Kevin Belue RV-10 flying RV-6A flying Sent from my iPhone On Dec 3, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Jae Chang wrote: > > The plans have you install this pin from the bottom, which seems odd. Als o, this requires securing the pin from falling and possibly removing the wh eel pants to insert the pin. > > However, has anyone installed the pin from the top of the leg? It looks l ike it might work and less worry about the pin falling out. > > Thanks, > Jae > 40533 > > > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: nose wheel
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Just a reminder to the new builders. The nose wheel and axle as supplied by Van's is , the opinion of many, inadequate. First the nose wheel is a MATCO wheel that is common to the other RVs and causes the tire to be mounted so that the valve stem for the tube is within .125 inch of the fork and that's without valve cap. An alternative wheel is available from MATCO (exchange if new and unmounted) which solves the valve stem clearance problem. Secondly the manner in which the axle and stainless steel sleeves are used to hold the bearings in place works for 100 hours (maybe) . After that time the whole mechanism loosens and the sleeves start to rotate and score the aluminum fork. The nose wheel then has side to side wobble on the bearings. If this continues the bearings and races wear prematurely. The solution is to not install he Vans nose wheel and sleeve arrangement. MATCO supplies an axle, and spacers and hardware to solve this problem. Order the axle kit to solve this. This is a pay me now or pay me later proposition The cost or a new MATCO wheel is about $130, a new Van's fork is about $200, new wheel bearings are about $40, and a MATCO axle kit is about $75. If the SS sleeves rotate, they will over time cause wheel wobble which can cause the valve stem to strike the fork and cause a flat ire. The wobble will destroy the bearings and seal. The sleeves will score the fork beyond serviceable limits. The reason for this post: I just talked with the IA at a maintenance faculty where a second owner RV10 was squawked for excessive nose wheel shimmy. Another faculty had just passed the aircraft on an annual without fixing the nose wheel. The problem is going to cost the present owner $250-$450 plus labor. Suggest doing this right the first time. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
Hmm, I don't know if Dynon would even recommend their EFIS for IFR. I have to be honest, I have a hard time swallowing recommendations when the EFIS you think is the best is also the lowest cost and would give you the greatest margin. There are few systems out there that can give you all the information in a useful format that a G900 can and comparing it to a Dynon is ludicrous. I would never take equipment into conditions where I have to rely on it and don't feel comfortable operating it. Doesn't matter if it's avionics, airframe, or powerplant. I also need to chime in that personal minimums are what YOU should feel comfortable with, not an average of what everyone else uses. At no point in my Instrument training, or in the almost 20 years since, have I ever wondered what someone else uses. If you are behind the aircraft at any point after the FAF it should be a no thought reaction to go missed and get your head back around things. There is no magic number that says at x altitude I'm going to miss, it should be based on many factors, not the least of which is currency and conditions. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR I guess I'll also add a shameless plug for Dynon. I now have flown behind their EFIS in at least 8-10 planes and totaling over 250 hours and want to say that they are incredibly stable. Even more impressively, they are accurate and stable right out of the box. There are so few things that have to be calibrated because of the way they are made, that I recommend them to everybody I can. There is a lot to be said for having TOO MUCH INFORMATION in front of you that you don't know how to interpret. AFS is a close second in stability out of the box, but they do have a TON more information on them. The G900X, while an amazing system, requires more of a scan, because of its size, than does a Dynon with 2/3 of a 7" screen without fancy information on it. I do agree that things like HITS in the Chelton, when the pilot knows how to use it, can be very valuable in IMC. It definitely needs to be repeated again, since I haven't heard it in a while, while knowing your instruments is critical, making sure they are calibrated correctly (read back up on the experiences and comments of Dan Lloyd) is just as critical. I have heard from more than one person about EFIS (and some very widely used ones) that did not agree with the horizon in VMC, and I mean by like 45 degrees or more. You do NOT want to be in a cloud with an instrument like that. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
John can chime in here but as far as I know it has always been SOP in a checkride for the candidate to exhibit a complete functional understanding of all onboard equipment (unless marked INOP and not on the MEL) and to be able to demonstrate the proper use of that equipment. That would include using an AP for coupled approaches and recovery from unusual attitudes. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:25 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR Since we're on the subject of checkrides, I took mine in an Archer with an autopilot. The examiner expected me to fly one approach with the autopilot (and not the partial panel one) and even recommended that I use the autopilot to recover from unusual attitudes at least once, which I declined. The most common wisdom around here (take that for what it's worth) is to mark the ADF "INOP" for the checkride and thereafter. Those rivets on the outboard ends of the lower bracket are just for a little stability of the bottom of the panel. There can't be a whole lot of structural integrity from two 3/32 rivets. You can make a bracket that attaches to the c-channels there or can brace the bottom of the panel to the subpanel somehow. If you have the throttle quadrant that adds a fair bit of stability to the lower end of the panel in itself by the way it attaches to the subpanel. You could make a couple of braces out of aluminum angle. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com>
Subject: Re: nose wheel
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Ya, I wish I would have known this!! I mounted mine a couple of weeks ago and now I have a valve stem that's too long. I called Van's and they said to push it in while filling the tire and then went on to tell me to leave the valve stem cap off!! REALLY! I like Van's way of staying simple and cheap BUT some items really need to be changed. ----- Original Message ----- From: David McNeill To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:52 AM Subject: RV10-List: nose wheel Just a reminder to the new builders. The nose wheel and axle as supplied by Van's is , the opinion of many, inadequate. First the nose wheel is a MATCO wheel that is common to the other RVs and causes the tire to be mounted so that the valve stem for the tube is within .125 inch of the fork and that's without valve cap. An alternative wheel is available from MATCO (exchange if new and unmounted) which solves the valve stem clearance problem. Secondly the manner in which the axle and stainless steel sleeves are used to hold the bearings in place works for 100 hours (maybe) . After that time the whole mechanism loosens and the sleeves start to rotate and score the aluminum fork. The nose wheel then has side to side wobble on the bearings. If this continues the bearings and races wear prematurely. The solution is to not install he Vans nose wheel and sleeve arrangement. MATCO supplies an axle, and spacers and hardware to solve this problem. Order the axle kit to solve this. This is a pay me now or pay me later proposition The cost or a new MATCO wheel is about $130, a new Van's fork is about $200, new wheel bearings are about $40, and a MATCO axle kit is about $75. If the SS sleeves rotate, they will over time cause wheel wobble which can cause the valve stem to strike the fork and cause a flat ire. The wobble will destroy the bearings and seal. The sleeves will score the fork beyond serviceable limits. The reason for this post: I just talked with the IA at a maintenance faculty where a second owner RV10 was squawked for excessive nose wheel shimmy. Another faculty had just passed the aircraft on an annual without fixing the nose wheel. The problem is going to cost the present owner $250-$450 plus labor. Suggest doing this right the first time. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: nose wheel
I actually did the MATCO solution a couple weeks back. Very nice and seems much more robust in addition to addressing the issue around the preload. Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: nose wheel Just a reminder to the new builders. The nose wheel and axle as supplied by Van's is , the opinion of many, inadequate. First the nose wheel is a MATC O wheel that is common to the other RVs and causes the tire to be mounted s o that the valve stem for the tube is within .125 inch of the fork and that 's without valve cap. An alternative wheel is available from MATCO (exchang e if new and unmounted) which solves the valve stem clearance problem. Secondly the manner in which the axle and stainless steel sleeves are used to hold the bearings in place works for 100 hours (maybe) . After that time the whole mechanism loosens and the sleeves start to rotate and score the aluminum fork. The nose wheel then has side to side wobble on the bearings. If this continues the bearings and races wear prematurely. The solution is to not install he Vans nose wheel and sleeve arrangement. MATCO supplies a n axle, and spacers and hardware to solve this problem. Order the axle kit to solve this. This is a pay me now or pay me later proposition The cost or a new MATCO wheel is about $130, a new Van's fork is about $200, new wheel bearings ar e about $40, and a MATCO axle kit is about $75. If the SS sleeves rotate, they will over time cause wheel wobble which can cause the valve stem to st rike the fork and cause a flat ire. The wobble will destroy the bearings an d seal. The sleeves will score the fork beyond serviceable limits. The reason for this post: I just talked with the IA at a maintenance facult y where a second owner RV10 was squawked for excessive nose wheel shimmy. A nother faculty had just passed the aircraft on an annual without fixing the nose wheel. The problem is going to cost the present owner $250-$450 plus labor. Suggest doing this right the first time. rsbooks.com> m> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
My rust may be showing here but I think you are expected to proceed to the missed approach point before executing the miss procedure, even from inside the FAF. Agreed that you can halt your descent as you see fit. As a practical matter under radar control, you say 'miss' and you are probably going to get vectors for your next move. RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > If you are behind the aircraft at any point after the FAF it should be a no thought reaction to go missed and get your head back around things. There is no magic number that says at x altitude I'm going to miss, it should be based on many factors, not the least of which is currency and conditions. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
Yep, sorry if it seemed I was implying something else. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver Watson Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR My rust may be showing here but I think you are expected to proceed to the missed approach point before executing the miss procedure, even from inside the FAF. Agreed that you can halt your descent as you see fit. As a practical matter under radar control, you say 'miss' and you are probably going to get vectors for your next move. RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > If you are behind the aircraft at any point after the FAF it should be a no thought reaction to go missed and get your head back around things. There is no magic number that says at x altitude I'm going to miss, it should be based on many factors, not the least of which is currency and conditions. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com>
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Hmmm, is what nacomatic.com is publishing a "legal" thing? Just wondering if it has the potential of disappearing. Is getting charts from a source (not sure what his source is) and reproducing them "legal"? On Dec 1, 2009, at 2:52 PM, Eric Ekberg wrote: > I noticed the same thing with the departure procedures. Also, when I did a "just download the procedures that have changed", it did not pick up the revision to the departure procedures. When I did a "download them all" it did. I did bite on the lifetime subscription, but I am not the die-hard fan that Tim is. I only hope that there involvement with BK will lead to a better product. I download the pdfs from nacomatic.com as well as using voyager. Basically when I use the product I hear a little nagging voice in the back of my head that says that it is a POS, but I still refuse to listen to it. Afterall, I don't even have my IFR ticket yet, so what do I know? > > -Eric > > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM, wrote: > I am becoming very concerned with the folks at Voyager. I purchased the Skypad and the lifetime program and I have found both to be very capable, with a few glitches. The departure procedures on the IFR charts apparently cannot be accessed. Only the first page of the plate shows up and unlike the AOPA version, you cannot scroll through. Secondly, the radar echoes and clouds are very intermittently displayed. They seem like very nice folks, but have been unresponsive to my emails, phone calls, and even failed to have a scheduled teleconference with me. I am concerned about the overall health of the company and I will continue to attempt to get my questions answered. In the event that I am successful I will place a post. If anyone else has had a different experience, I would love to hear about it. I have spoken to the secretary who assures me that I will be contacted by a technical person, but I do not receive a contact. I am not upset at the company as I do feel it is a good value, I am just concerned about whether they will continue to function and what will happen to these life time subscriptions and equipment should they fail to be able to provide support. If you are considering purchase you may wish to take this into consideration. > Jim Rore > > > -----Original Message----- > From: orchidman <gary(at)wingscc.com> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:55 am > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only > > > > Tim Olson wrote: > > Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the lowest prices EVER > > on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other things for Friday only. > > Tim > > The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscriptions. > They screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still > on their books. Otherwise I might have jumped on it. > Maybe next year if they offer it again. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078 > > > > > > > > > =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com > m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: nose wheel
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Just a quick "thank you" to the posters on this site, and to Matt for running it. Thanks to all of you (and a previous post on this subject) I was able to delete this wheel and axle from the kit, and order the better ones directly from Matco, for very little net extra cost. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276014#276014 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 03, 2009
For the miss on the Cheltons, hitting the miss soft key at any time will provide HITS boxes at or above but along the published missed approach course -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver Watson Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR --> My rust may be showing here but I think you are expected to proceed to the missed approach point before executing the miss procedure, even from inside the FAF. Agreed that you can halt your descent as you see fit. As a practical matter under radar control, you say 'miss' and you are probably going to get vectors for your next move. RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > If you are behind the aircraft at any point after the FAF it should be a no thought reaction to go missed and get your head back around things. There is no magic number that says at x altitude I'm going to miss, it should be based on many factors, not the least of which is currency and conditions. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Sean=0A=0ANational Aeronautical Charting Office - NACO- - this is the div ision of the FAA that publishes charts. Paid for buy your tax dollars, char ts as current as possible, right now you can download charts effective: =0A 17 December 2009 to 14 January 2010 =0A=0ASteve 40212=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________=0AFrom: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com>=0A ject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only=0A=0AHmmm, is what nacomatic .com is publishing a "legal" thing? -Just wondering if it has the potenti al of disappearing. =0A=0AIs getting charts from a source (not sure what hi s source is) and reproducing them "legal"?=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Dec 1, 2009, at 2: 52 PM, Eric Ekberg wrote:=0A=0AI noticed the same thing with the departure procedures.- Also, when I did a "just download the procedures that have c hanged", it did not pick up the revision to the departure procedures.- Wh en I did a "download them all" it did.- I did bite on the lifetime subscr iption, but I am not the die-hard fan that Tim is.- I only hope that ther e involvement with BK will lead to a better product.- I download the pdfs from nacomatic.com as well as using voyager.- Basically when I use the p roduct I hear a little nagging voice in the back of my head that says that it is a POS, but I still refuse to listen to it.- Afterall, I don't even have my IFR ticket yet, so what do I know?=0A>=0A>-Eric=0A>=0A>=0A>On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM, wrote:=0A>=0A>I am becoming ver y concerned with the folks at Voyager. I purchased the Skypad and the lifet ime program and I have found both to be very capable, with a few glitches. The departure procedures on the IFR charts apparently cannot be accessed. O nly the first page of the plate shows up and unlike the AOPA version, you c annot scroll through. Secondly, the radar echoes and clouds are very interm ittently displayed. They seem like very nice folks, but have been unrespons ive to my emails, phone calls, and even failed to have a scheduled teleconf erence with me. I am concerned about the overall health of the company and I will continue to attempt to get my questions answered. In the event that I am successful I will place a post. If anyone else has had a different exp erience, I would love to hear about it. I have spoken to the secretary who assures me that I will be contacted by a technical person, but I do not rec eive a contact. I am not upset at the company as I do feel it is a good value, I am just concerned about whether they will co ntinue to function and what will happen to these life time subscriptions an d equipment should they fail to be able to provide support. If you are cons idering purchase you may wish to take this into consideration.=0A>>Jim Rore =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-----Original Message-----=0A>>From: orchidman <gary@wi ngscc.com>=0A>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0A>>=0A>>Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 8:55 am=0A>>Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-- >Tim Olson wrote:=0A>>> Just got the latest newsletter and they claim the l owest prices EVER =0A>>> on lifetime chart subscriptions and some other th ings for Friday only.=0A>>> Tim=0A>>=0A>>The price is right except they are not giving credit for existing subscriptions. =0A>>They screwed up my Osh order so bad that I have over a years subscription still =0A>>on their boo ks. Otherwise I might have jumped on it.=0A>>Maybe next year if they offer it again.=0A>>=0A>>--------=0A>>Gary Blankenbiller=0A>>RV10 - # 40674=0A>> (N2GB Flying)=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic online here:=0A>>=0A> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275078#275078=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com=0A>>m/" target=_b lank>www.buildersbooks.com=0A>>=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com=0A>>_blank>h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>rget=_blank>http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?RV10-List=0A>>tp://forums.matronics.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com=0A>>.com" target="_blank">www .buildersbooks.com=0A>>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com=0A>>_blank">http:/ /www.matronics.com/contributionget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?RV10-List=0A>>tp://forums.matronics.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com=0A>href="http: //www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com=0A>href="http://www.homeb uilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref="http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhre f="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A =============0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
A few comments: Yes, on a missed approach, you are to proceed to the MAP and then execute the miss as published, except that you may climb immediately. There is a very good reason for this: there are some missed approach procedures which take you up a valley, around a hill, etc. Turn too early and you hit the mountain. The instrument PTS was changed a few years ago to require an autopilot coupled approach, if the aircraft has such an autopilot. And, most examiners are on to the "inop" trick with the ADF, and many don't like it. I still remember my ifr checkride, years ago. During the NDB approach (no moving maps then) I could feel the DE fidgeting next to me. Finally, he leaned over and turned off the alternator. The ADF needle jumped about 20 degrees. I glanced at him, and he just said, "You know, in the old days, that's all they had." (!!). But while a lousy instrument, ADF's are great for teaching position awareness (in case your gps goes south). Finally, I cannot agree more with all the comments about really knowing your EFIS and avionics. If you read the NTSB report on the fatal RV-10 ifr accident, you'll see that they suggest the fact that the PIC had never flown behind an EFIS may have contributed to the accident. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276023#276023 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter James" <RVPilot(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Rear seat heat duct
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Hello folks, As an early kit purchaser, I, like many, have a problem with the 'stock' heat tube issue for the back seat as it goes past the fuel selector valve. I have solved the problem. In the attached pictures, I made a plug out of wood. We vacuumed bagged a part for my plane..so my problem is solved. But I also sent pictures to a plastics injection mold shop, and a roto-mold shop. Injection molding was 3 times the cost of the roto-molding. I have a quote back from the roto-mold shop that may make it viable to pay to have the tooling made and parts cast. I estimate that we would need to order about 200 units to make the time and money worth the effort. An expected price would be $70-75, with another $5 or $10 for boxing and postage. They estimate the part will weigh about 6/10ths of a pound. I do realize that the problem has been solved in later kits. I also realize that many solved the problem by installing an Adair valve. But I also think that hundreds of kits shipped with the same issue, and many are facing the same issue. I chose to make my own part --- the on-going reason my plane still isn't flying! I need to know if there is demand for this part to be made. If so, I can pursue having it done. If not, I will spend my time completing my plane. So open the flood gates - drop me a response. When you respond, put something in the subject line like HEAT DUCT YES, or HEAT DUCT NO to make a quick survey of my inbox possible. Pete James RV-10 Escalade - heavy & gas guzzling, yet comfortable! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
From: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
sean(at)stephensville.com wrote: > Hmmm, is what nacomatic.com (http://nacomatic.com) is publishing a "legal" thing? Just wondering if it has the potential of disappearing. > > Is getting charts from a source (not sure what his source is) and reproducing them "legal"? And there is a script that will automate the downloading. You can specify state, section, all etc. I am using it to put the charts on an SD card. I download only the states I might need for a flight and can review multiple airports very quickly. I think it is much easier then the Voyager program if you are trying to review what is available in an area as say looking for alternates. http://mstewart.net/super8/grtgetallplates/index.htm -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276027#276027 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Bob Turner wrote: > A few comments: > > Yes, on a missed approach, you are to proceed to the MAP and then execute the miss as published, except that you may climb immediately. There is a very good reason for this: there are some missed approach procedures which take you up a valley, around a hill, etc. Turn too early and you hit the mountain. Bob, VERY TRUE. IFR pilots need to remember this. In the design of an approach, the obstacle clearance is provided from the IAF(s) to the MAP along the designed flight path. THEN from the MAP to the missed holding along the missed approach path. DO NOT TAKE A SHORT CUT. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276029#276029 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Just to throw another ditto on the stack; with several thousand hours flying sophisticated EFIS systems in Corp aircraft it took at least 50-60 hours before I felt I knew the Chelton system well enough to begin flying IFR. The more I use it the more I like the Chelton, it is easy to manage and edit flight plans on the fly which is the real test. Too bad Cobham does not seem interested in marketing this great system. What IFR RV-10 accident? Dick Sipp N110DV 200 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Traville Houston <travilleh(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: nose wheel
Can you please tell me the matco product number or name for the axle kit? ________________________________ From: Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 1:02:05 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: nose wheel Ya, I wish I would have known this!! I mounted mine a couple of weeks ago and now I have a valve stem that's too long. I called Van's and they said to push it in while filling the tire and then went on to tell me to leave the valve stem cap off!! REALLY! I like Van's way of staying simple and cheap BUT some items really need to be changed. ----- Original Message ----- >From: David McNeill >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:52 > AM >Subject: RV10-List: nose wheel > > >Just > a reminder to the new builders. The nose wheel and axle as > supplied by Van's is , the opinion of many, inadequate. First the nose wheel > is a MATCO wheel that is common to the other RVs and causes the tire to be > mounted so that the valve stem for the tube is within .125 inch of the fork > and that's without valve cap. An alternative wheel is available from MATCO > (exchange if new and unmounted) which solves the valve stem clearance > problem. > >Secondly the manner in > which the axle and stainless steel sleeves are used to hold the bearings in > place works for 100 hours (maybe) . After that time the whole mechanism > loosens and the sleeves start to rotate and score the aluminum fork. The nose > wheel then has side to side wobble on the bearings. If this continues the > bearings and races wear prematurely. The solution is to not install he Vans nose wheel and sleeve > arrangement. MATCO supplies an axle, and spacers and hardware > to solve this problem. Order the axle kit to solve > this. > >This is a pay me now or pay me later > proposition The cost or a new MATCO wheel is about > $130, a new Van's fork is about $200, new wheel bearings are about $40, and a > MATCO axle kit is about $75. If the SS sleeves rotate, they will over > time cause wheel wobble which can cause the valve stem to strike the fork and > cause a flat ire. The wobble will destroy the bearings and seal. The sleeves > will score the fork beyond serviceable limits. > >The reason for this post: > I just talked with the IA at a maintenance faculty where a second owner RV10 > was squawked for excessive nose wheel shimmy. Another faculty had just > passed the aircraft on an annual without fixing the nose wheel. The > problem is going to cost the present owner $250-$450 plus labor.Suggest doing this right the first > time. > > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Hey Jesse, Here's what I had: http://www.nonstopaviation.com/rv10-controller-cooler-p-14566.html?osCsid=3b72614996a7569bab65773be35830a5 -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 Painting done! On with wiring and avionics. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276041#276041 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
I've been a GPS person since before the first handhelds were really in common use. That was due to a loop hole in the rules for racing sailplanes years ago. Ground based navigation aids were prohibited which in effect, required pilotage for all cross country racing. When GPS was first available, it was not specifically prohibited by the rules so within a split second or two, we had purpose built GPS-driven glide computers for sailplanes. Magic! The rules were never changed and now sailplane racing is a sport I barely recognize any longer with GPS starts, finishes, turn areas and such. No one knows what's going on until the loggers are processed. But I still find it hard to break away from needle based, RF driven, analog navigation thinking. I mean, yes, your electrical system can fail and yes your primary nav radio can fail, but practically speaking, will GPS fail? Hard hat on: yes everything can fail. But my '10 will have 3 independent GPS receivers on 3 different electrical systems and batteries. That's not counting my 396. And while a VOR station in a critical location can fail, the GPS network is sort of a cellular network. A couple of Sats go down, will I notice? Can the entities running that network purposely fail it? Can they afford to? A lot of things can happen but I've never had a GPS failure or glitch in 20+ years or so. I did get strange inaccuracies near the Aberdeen proving grounds on 2 occassions in 1999 - so I'm stretching the truth a bit. A major challenge in staying current is staying proficient with VOR navigation (forget the ADF which should be a hole in most of our panels). Can you really do that VOR approach without the GPS? Can you do it with one Nav? I look at my backup guages (ASI, Alt, and ADI) and they make me feel safe. But I wonder if old-fart-ism is the only thing preventing me from considering a little Dynon to replace the 3 needles. Where are the airlines on this stuff today. Do they still include pneumatic, analog backups? It's tough to think far outside the box but I guess that conservatism in the maintenance of long life is a good thing. Bill "realizing that it's getting harder to shift paradigms, sleep soundly through the night, and put his pants on in the morning" Watson Bob Turner wrote: > The instrument PTS was changed a few years ago to require an autopilot coupled approach, if the aircraft has such an autopilot. And, most examiners are on to the "inop" trick with the ADF, and many don't like it. I still remember my ifr checkride, years ago. During the NDB approach (no moving maps then) I could feel the DE fidgeting next to me. Finally, he leaned over and turned off the alternator. The ADF needle jumped about 20 degrees. I glanced at him, and he just said, "You know, in the old days, that's all they had." (!!). But while a lousy instrument, ADF's are great for teaching position awareness (in case your gps goes south). > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: nose wheel
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Here's the axel: http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH_idv_3657_1.html Later, - Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: Traville Houston To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:25 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: nose wheel Can you please tell me the matco product number or name for the axle kit? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: nose wheel
Date: Dec 03, 2009
call MATCO and ask for tech support; they know. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Traville Houston Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:26 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: nose wheel Can you please tell me the matco product number or name for the axle kit? _____ From: Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 1:02:05 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: nose wheel Ya, I wish I would have known this!! I mounted mine a couple of weeks ago and now I have a valve stem that's too long. I called Van's and they said to push it in while filling the tire and then went on to tell me to leave the valve stem cap off!! REALLY! I like Van's way of staying simple and cheap BUT some items really need to be changed. ----- Original Message ----- From: David McNeill <mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:52 AM Subject: RV10-List: nose wheel Just a reminder to the new builders. The nose wheel and axle as supplied by Van's is , the opinion of many, inadequate. First the nose wheel is a MATCO wheel that is common to the other RVs and causes the tire to be mounted so that the valve stem for the tube is within .125 inch of the fork and that's without valve cap. An alternative wheel is available from MATCO (exchange if new and unmounted) which solves the valve stem clearance problem. Secondly the manner in which the axle and stainless steel sleeves are used to hold the bearings in place works for 100 hours (maybe) . After that time the whole mechanism loosens and the sleeves start to rotate and score the aluminum fork. The nose wheel then has side to side wobble on the bearings. If this continues the bearings and races wear prematurely. The solution is to not install he Vans nose wheel and sleeve arrangement. MATCO supplies an axle, and spacers and hardware to solve this problem. Order the axle kit to solve this. This is a pay me now or pay me later proposition The cost or a new MATCO wheel is about $130, a new Van's fork is about $200, new wheel bearings are about $40, and a MATCO axle kit is about $75. If the SS sleeves rotate, they will over time cause wheel wobble which can cause the valve stem to strike the fork and cause a flat ire. The wobble will destroy the bearings and seal. The sleeves will score the fork beyond serviceable limits. The reason for this post: I just talked with the IA at a maintenance faculty where a second owner RV10 was squawked for excessive nose wheel shimmy. Another faculty had just passed the aircraft on an annual without fixing the nose wheel. The problem is going to cost the present owner $250-$450 plus labor. Suggest doing this right the first time. href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> >http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lis t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics .com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 03, 2009
210HM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick & Vicki Sipp Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:16 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR --> Just to throw another ditto on the stack; with several thousand hours flying sophisticated EFIS systems in Corp aircraft it took at least 50-60 hours before I felt I knew the Chelton system well enough to begin flying IFR. The more I use it the more I like the Chelton, it is easy to manage and edit flight plans on the fly which is the real test. Too bad Cobham does not seem interested in marketing this great system. What IFR RV-10 accident? Dick Sipp N110DV 200 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
re: What ifr accident? go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 080422X00528&ntsbno=NYC08FA157&akey=1 or go to NTSB.gov, aviation, search on RV-10 -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276084#276084 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Also available: https://www.averytools.com/pc-1070-115-rv-10-4-air-controller-for-oil-cooler.aspx On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Lew Gallagher wrote: > > Hey Jesse, > > Here's what I had: > http://www.nonstopaviation.com/rv10-controller-cooler-p-14566.html?osCsid=3b72614996a7569bab65773be35830a5 > > -------- > non-pilot > crazy about building > NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 > Painting done! > On with wiring and avionics. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276041#276041 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 03, 2009
This is "one RV10 pilot and one instrument pilot don't make one RV10 instrument pilot". From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: IFR re: What ifr accident? go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 080422X00528&ntsbno=NYC08FA157&a key=1 or go to NTSB.gov, aviation, search on RV-10 -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276084#276084 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Well, it is very feasible and proven for the military to jam GPS for a wide area. I've had that every time flying near Edwards AFB and a few times in NM. So it really does not matter how many redundant GPS's you have, if one can't get satellites the others probably can't either. Staying current on VOR approaches? Please...that is easier than staying proficient on ILSs. Some of us used to be younger and bolder. I started flying IFR after getting the ticket in a plane with one Navcom with ILS, and one ADF with manual tuning(non-digital)(Bendix T-12C for old timers). I flew both colored airways based on NDBs and Victor airways routinely, and no, I didn't have a transponder and my only backup was a trusty KX-99 handheld nav-com, which mostly served as a Nav 2 for crossing radials. So all altitude changes had to be reported, and each reporting point on the chart had to be called in as Center had very poor primary radar, so handled me as non-radar. Only approach control would bother to radar identify me.Oh, and that plane had AN gyros(yes, backwards DG just like compass). I didn't get a GPS until 15 years later. Point being that you best be able to fly the traditional airways with something other than GPS and better have something for back up attitude and altitude display, whether a second independent EFIS or steam gauges. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: I mean, yes, your electrical system can fail and yes > your primary nav radio can fail, but practically speaking, will GPS fail? > > Hard hat on: yes everything can fail. But my '10 will have 3 independent > GPS receivers on 3 different electrical systems and batteries. That's not > counting my 396. And while a VOR station in a critical location can fail, > the GPS network is sort of a cellular network. A couple of Sats go down, > will I notice? Can the entities running that network purposely fail it? > Can they afford to? A lot of things can happen but I've never had a GPS > failure or glitch in 20+ years or so. I did get strange inaccuracies near > the Aberdeen proving grounds on 2 occassions in 1999 - so I'm stretching the > truth a bit. > > A major challenge in staying current is staying proficient with VOR > navigation (forget the ADF which should be a hole in most of our panels). > Can you really do that VOR approach without the GPS? Can you do it with ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IFR
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 04, 2009
On my cross country flights although they have been GPS direct to specified way points due to restricted airspace and some hot MOA's both nav radios have been tuned to VORs enroute for DME and cross check info...I hardly ever fly alone and the old guys I fly with never look at or trust the MX-20, they keep a chart in hand and only really understand the CDI...(Kidding) but they are great backup navigation!! Rick Sked N246RS Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:44:42 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR Well, it is very feasible and proven for the military to jam GPS for a wide area. I've had that every time flying near Edwards AFB and a few times in NM. So it really does not matter how many redundant GPS's you have, if one can't get satellites the others probably can't either. Staying current on VOR approaches? Please...that is easier than staying proficient on ILSs. Some of us used to be younger and bolder. I started flying IFR after getting the ticket in a plane with one Navcom with ILS, and one ADF with manual tuning(non-digital)(Bendix T-12C for old timers). I flew both colored airways based on NDBs and Victor airways routinely, and no, I didn't have a transponder and my only backup was a trusty KX-99 handheld nav-com, which mostly served as a Nav 2 for crossing radials. So all altitude changes had to be reported, and each reporting point on the chart had to be called in as Center had very poor primary radar, so handled me as non-radar. Only approach control would bother to radar identify me.Oh, and that plane had AN gyros(yes, backwards DG just like compass). I didn't get a GPS until 15 years later. Point being that you best be able to fly the traditional airways with something other than GPS and better have something for back up attitude and altitude display, whether a second independent EFIS or steam gauges. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: I mean, yes, your electrical system can fail and yes > your primary nav radio can fail, but practically speaking, will GPS fail? > > Hard hat on: yes everything can fail. But my '10 will have 3 independent > GPS receivers on 3 different electrical systems and batteries. That's not > counting my 396. And while a VOR station in a critical location can fail, > the GPS network is sort of a cellular network. A couple of Sats go down, > will I notice? Can the entities running that network purposely fail it? > Can they afford to? A lot of things can happen but I've never had a GPS > failure or glitch in 20+ years or so. I did get strange inaccuracies near > the Aberdeen proving grounds on 2 occassions in 1999 - so I'm stretching the > truth a bit. > > A major challenge in staying current is staying proficient with VOR > navigation (forget the ADF which should be a hole in most of our panels). > Can you really do that VOR approach without the GPS? Can you do it with ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Dec 03, 2009
For the list, I have copied the probable cause of that RV 10 fatal accident below. I had not read any of this one since the early reports, and at the time heard reports that the weather was much worse than it actually was. The earlier link was to the full report, but did not have probable cause. It is very good reading for all of us, and here is the probable cause for those who don't want to go to the website. There are numerous lessons here for us. grumpy NTSB Identification: NYC08FA157 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Monday, April 07, 2008 in Seale, AL Probable Cause Approval Date: 3/5/2009 Aircraft: CARTWRIGHT H JR/COTTRELL M RV-10, registration: N210HM Injuries: 2 Fatal. The instrument-rated private pilot requested a very high frequency omnidirectional radio range (VOR) approach into an airport. Thereafter he began a descent from cruise flight into instrument meteorological conditions. The controller cleared the airplane for the approach about 20 miles north of the airport. The airplane then began a descending right turn and the pilot requested, and was provided, vectors to another airport. While en-route to that airport, he amended his request and asked for vectors to a third airport, stating that he required an airport with an instrument landing system (ILS) approach. The controller subsequently provided vectors, followed by an ILS approach clearance. Shortly after receiving the clearance, the airplane flew past the ILS localizer path, and the controller cancelled the approach clearance. The pilot then requested an airport with cloud bases 2,000 feet or better, and the controller advised him to check the weather at a nearby airport. The airplane then began a rapid descending right turn, followed by a steep climbing right turn. The airplane then began another rapid descent and was destroyed when it collided with wooded terrain. Throughout the approach portions of the flight, the airplane deviated multiple times from assigned altitudes and headings. The airplane was equipped with a liquid crystal display avionics suite, in a configuration commonly referred to as a "glass cockpit." No logbook entries were noted indicating that the instrument-rated pilot had flight experience in the accident airplane, and the majority of his flight experience in IMC took place in his own airplane, which was equipped with conventional flight instruments. The pilot-rated passenger/builder held a private pilot certificate and did not possess an instrument rating. No evidence of any preimpact mechanical anomalies was discovered. Weather reports for airports in the vicinity of the accident varied between 8 and 10 miles visibility, with cloud bases between 1,200 and 2,000 feet mean sea level (msl) and cloud tops at 4,500 feet msl. The airplane's turning ground track and the cloud conditions were conducive to the onset of pilot spatial disorientation. The airplane's multiple, rapid ascents and descents are consistent with the pilot's loss of control of the airplane because of spatial disorientation. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: The pilot-in-command's in-flight loss of control due to spatial disorientation. Contributing to the accident were the weather conditions and the pilot-in-command's lack of flight experience in the accident airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
From: Chris Colohan <rv10(at)colohan.com>
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson < MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote: > Hard hat on: yes everything can fail. But my '10 will have 3 independent > GPS receivers on 3 different electrical systems and batteries. That's not > counting my 396. And while a VOR station in a critical location can fail, > the GPS network is sort of a cellular network. A couple of Sats go down, > will I notice? Can the entities running that network purposely fail it? > Can they afford to? A lot of things can happen but I've never had a GPS > failure or glitch in 20+ years or so. I did get strange inaccuracies near > the Aberdeen proving grounds on 2 occassions in 1999 - so I'm stretching the > truth a bit. > To give a counterexample: I've been flying IFR for less than 2 years. I am a relative newbie. I have had two GPS failures: 1. My GPS went into "RAIM failure" mode while on a practice approach into PAO. Non-event. I took off the hood and continued VFR. 2. On an actual instrument approach (still in the clouds) after the FAF going into Truckee (in the mountains) riding in a friend's plane, I had the GPS screen blank out and announce "GPS SIGNAL LOST". That had us seriously scrambling to find a way to estimate the position of the MAP, since there was a mountain straight ahead of us... (The GPS recovered about 5 frantic seconds later.) Would a second GPS unit continued to work in either of these situations? I don't know. But it does convince me that having a different type of navigation on board is very worthwhile. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Chris Colohan wrote: > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson > > wrote: > > Hard hat on: yes everything can fail. But my '10 will have 3 > independent GPS receivers on 3 different electrical systems and > batteries. That's not counting my 396. And while a VOR station > in a critical location can fail, the GPS network is sort of a > cellular network. A couple of Sats go down, will I notice? Can > the entities running that network purposely fail it? Can they > afford to? A lot of things can happen but I've never had a GPS > failure or glitch in 20+ years or so. I did get strange > inaccuracies near the Aberdeen proving grounds on 2 occassions in > 1999 - so I'm stretching the truth a bit. > > > To give a counterexample: I've been flying IFR for less than 2 years. > I am a relative newbie. I have had two GPS failures: > > 1. My GPS went into "RAIM failure" mode while on a practice approach > into PAO. Non-event. I took off the hood and continued VFR. > > 2. On an actual instrument approach (still in the clouds) after the > FAF going into Truckee (in the mountains) riding in a friend's plane, > I had the GPS screen blank out and announce "GPS SIGNAL LOST". That > had us seriously scrambling to find a way to estimate the position of > the MAP, since there was a mountain straight ahead of us... (The GPS > recovered about 5 frantic seconds later.) > > Would a second GPS unit continued to work in either of these > situations? I don't know. But it does convince me that having a > different type of navigation on board is very worthwhile. Good examples. Some additional thoughts: Regarding 1, I think a RAIM failure means that the unit will not load or execute a GPS approach. I belieive you still have GPS nav capability essentially equivalent to VOR Nav but no approach capability. More unit specific procedure stuff and TSO details to train on. But a RAIM failure definitely means you need an alternate means of doing the approach as required by the FARs Regarding 2, I just attended an FAA maintenance training/safety session focused on avionics installations. The guy who led it talked a lot about GPS attenna installations with lots of examples. He put the fear of GPS antenna installation induced failures in my heart. He had my number when he mentioned how plastic airplane people want all their antenna hidden and how sometimes 'hidden' doesn't work so well for various reasons. And expressed some disdain for the Archer antenna installations that work "well enough in most directions". He focused on using the manufacturers installation instructions. All good stuff. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
From: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>
Date: Dec 04, 2009
jesse(at)saintaviation.co wrote: > Fabulous link. Takes a little doing for a not-that-technical computer guy, but very nice once it's working. > I like saving the chart plates by state. It takes a little longer to update things but I have a root folder called CHARTS. I then put each state in its own folder i.e. charts/TX The script will put all of the TX airports in their own folders. downloadplates.pl --states TX --destination c:chartsTX Then if I wanted to see all the approaches into Georgetown, I would brows to CHARTS, then TX, then GTU and bingo, listed are all the FAA approach plates for Georgetown. They are free, and legal. The nice thing about this program is that it also automatically handles updates/additions/deletions. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276134#276134 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Voyager sale Fri only
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: "Brent P. Humphreys" <bhumphreys(at)stonetek.com>
PDF Plates has a nice application to assist in downloading your plates. http://www.pdfplates.com/ They also compile the PDF's into single files like the FAA books. I know the developer, and if you have a specific format you would like them in, I could put a bug in his ear. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:15 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Voyager sale Fri only jesse(at)saintaviation.co wrote: > Fabulous link. Takes a little doing for a not-that-technical computer guy, but very nice once it's working. > I like saving the chart plates by state. It takes a little longer to update things but I have a root folder called CHARTS. I then put each state in its own folder i.e. charts/TX The script will put all of the TX airports in their own folders. downloadplates.pl --states TX --destination c:chartsTX Then if I wanted to see all the approaches into Georgetown, I would brows to CHARTS, then TX, then GTU and bingo, listed are all the FAA approach plates for Georgetown. They are free, and legal. The nice thing about this program is that it also automatically handles updates/additions/deletions. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276134#276134 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: PLBs
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Just read the article on the Medford OR couple who have been lost 3 days in the mountains. They had cell phones but no signal. If they had a PLB they would have been rescued within a few hours of their problem. Don't depend on a cell phone for communication in the event of a forced landing. If you have a 406Mh ELT fine but if not a $300 Fastfind 210 will ensure SAR activity shortly after activation. The Fastfind locates your position with a WAAS GPS and then transmits your position digitally to geosynchronous satellite over the Pacific or Atlantic; The distress message is then transmitted to Suitland MD where SAR headquarters activates local 911 responders. The PLB will operate at -20C or optionally at -40C. It can also be used on car trips, ATV adventures etc. It would be horrible to survive a forced landing and die of exposure waiting for SAR to find the aircraft or you. Whether flying the Glastar or the RV10 or driving the Van or rental car, I carry a Fastfind PLB. http://www.rei.com/product/791972 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: PLBs
Date: Dec 04, 2009
This is the one I have; the original from 2003? http://www.boatbandit.com/mcmurdopains-wessex-fastfind-plus-plb-w-gps-2716.a spx ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Re: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top?
Thanks for the replies. I finally got a chance to test it both ways again and the bottom up approach with wheel pants off seems the best for me, without permanently bending the pin. I was also thinking I may try to pop rivet some safety wire permanently in place by the hinge. Then I can twist and untwist the safety wire as needed. Jae 40533 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top?
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Just a suggestion but after about three or four twists and untwists the wire will most likely give out The way that pin slides in and out I never wired it in place My pant fairings are bonded to the pant itself and I can't see how the fairing pin could ever find is way out. Rick S. N246RS ------Original Message------ From: Jae Chang Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Dec 4, 2009 7:01 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Leg Gear Fairing Hinge Pins - bottom or top? Thanks for the replies. I finally got a chance to test it both ways again and the bottom up approach with wheel pants off seems the best for me, without permanently bending the pin. I was also thinking I may try to pop rivet some safety wire permanently in place by the hinge. Then I can twist and untwist the safety wire as needed. Jae 40533 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PLBs
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 04, 2009
The thing I like about PLB's is the cost..that and the fact my version of camping is a Holiday Inn without a bar...I want to be rescued!!.Sportys listed a basic one for 399. The 406 ELT's use the same technology don't they? So how come they are 1000 bucks? Rick Sked N246RS Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:15:19 Subject: RV10-List: PLBs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: PLBs
ELT has a pricey G switch AND approvals from about 6 govt/miltary agencies. ACK took over a year to get approval after all paperwork was submitted. Like getting a complex STC approved. Ridiculous considering original ELT only needed FAA and FCC approval. ricksked(at)embarqmail.com wrote: > The thing I like about PLB's is the cost..that and the fact my version > of camping is a Holiday Inn without a bar...I want to be > rescued!!.Sportys listed a basic one for 399. The 406 ELT's use the same > technology don't they? So how come they are 1000 bucks? > > Rick Sked > N246RS > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Subject: Re: IFR
I would take that a step farther and say that it is very feasible and proven for non-military persons with enough know how and an Internet connection to build a device that can jam localized GPS signals. There is a reason the AOPA and others are real twitchy about the decomm of the VOR system without a good backup for GPS. That also doesn't take into account the funding issues around the current GPS constellation and the expected reduction in capability due to failing satellites without new ones being launched. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:45 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR Well, it is very feasible and proven for the military to jam GPS for a wide area. I've had that every time flying near Edwards AFB and a few times in NM. So it really does not matter how many redundant GPS's you have, if one can't get satellites the others probably can't either. Staying current on VOR approaches? Please...that is easier than staying proficient on ILSs. Some of us used to be younger and bolder. I started flying IFR after getting the ticket in a plane with one Navcom with ILS, and one ADF with manual tuning(non-digital)(Bendix T-12C for old timers). I flew both colored airways based on NDBs and Victor airways routinely, and no, I didn't have a transponder and my only backup was a trusty KX-99 handheld nav-com, which mostly served as a Nav 2 for crossing radials. So all altitude changes had to be reported, and each reporting point on the chart had to be called in as Center had very poor primary radar, so handled me as non-radar. Only approach control would bother to radar identify me.Oh, and that plane had AN gyros(yes, backwards DG just like compass). I didn't get a GPS until 15 years later. Point being that you best be able to fly the traditional airways with something other than GPS and better have something for back up attitude and altitude display, whether a second independent EFIS or steam gauges. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: I mean, yes, your electrical system can fail and yes > your primary nav radio can fail, but practically speaking, will GPS fail? > > Hard hat on: yes everything can fail. But my '10 will have 3 independent > GPS receivers on 3 different electrical systems and batteries. That's not > counting my 396. And while a VOR station in a critical location can fail, > the GPS network is sort of a cellular network. A couple of Sats go down, > will I notice? Can the entities running that network purposely fail it? > Can they afford to? A lot of things can happen but I've never had a GPS > failure or glitch in 20+ years or so. I did get strange inaccuracies near > the Aberdeen proving grounds on 2 occassions in 1999 - so I'm stretching the > truth a bit. > > A major challenge in staying current is staying proficient with VOR > navigation (forget the ADF which should be a hole in most of our panels). > Can you really do that VOR approach without the GPS? Can you do it with ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PLBs
The SAR agencies can decode the ID and determine if the source is a PLB (hi ker) or ELT (aircraft) or EPIRB (ship/boat). This decoding provides the age ncies with a choice of responses. If a pilot crashes and sets off his PLB will he receive a response time equ al to setting off his ELT? - My ELT decision was based upon a theoretical crash with my wife. One mental sceanario was 121.5Mhz and the other a-406Mhz. -Looking at the short t ime to rescue with the 406 and the uncertain time to rescue with the 121 th e thought of Sara sitting in the dirt beside a ball of aluminum and posing the question - "After spending $140K plus on this airplane you could not sp end another $500 to protect-our lives?"-- would haunt me for years. - I purchased the 406. - Bill DeRouchey N939SB - --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Kelly McMullen wrote: From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: PLBs Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 7:51 AM ELT has a pricey G switch AND approvals from about 6 govt/miltary agencies. ACK took over a year to get approval after all paperwork was submitted. Li ke getting a complex STC approved. Ridiculous considering original ELT only needed FAA and FCC approval. ricksked(at)embarqmail.com wrote: > The thing I like about PLB's is the cost..that and the fact my version of camping is a Holiday Inn without a bar...I want to be rescued!!.Sportys li sted a basic one for 399. The 406 ELT's use the same technology don't they? So how come they are 1000 bucks? > > Rick Sked > N246RS > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net>
Subject: Oil Cooler Valve
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Richard Bibb "What is really needed IMHO is a valve to control the airflow into the cowl. Any of you inventors out there have any ideas?" Aren't they called cowl flaps? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Cooler Valve
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Cowl flaps control airflow out of the low pressure end. John Cox ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Richard Bibb Sent: Fri 12/4/2009 1:20 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Cooler Valve Richard Bibb "What is really needed IMHO is a valve to control the airflow into the cowl. Any of you inventors out there have any ideas?" Aren't they called cowl flaps? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 05, 2009
John, Did you get my pics for your CD? Rick Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:52:02 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Cooler Valve This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Well, only part of the story John. What they control is the pressure differential across the cylinders, which controls the airflow through the engine compartment. When you have a funnel, it doesn't matter how big the top end opening is, only the size of the little opening at the bottom. If the top of the funnel is full, ain't no more getting in until some goes out the bottom. Great over simplification of what happens, but works well enough for discussion purposes. I really think that most of the hot weather cooling issues could be fixed with properly sized/designed cowl flaps. But WTFDIK, still working on wings? Kelly On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:52 PM, John Cox wrote: > Cowl flaps control airflow out of the low pressure end. > > John Cox > ________________________________ > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Richard Bibb > Sent: Fri 12/4/2009 1:20 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Cooler Valve > > > Richard Bibb > > "What is really needed IMHO is a valve to control the airflow into the cowl. > Any of you inventors out there have any ideas?" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
Date: Dec 05, 2009
Kelly.. I love the WTFDIK.....response ROFLMAO.....made my night Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:26:23 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oil Cooler Valve Well, only part of the story John. What they control is the pressure differential across the cylinders, which controls the airflow through the engine compartment. When you have a funnel, it doesn't matter how big the top end opening is, only the size of the little opening at the bottom. If the top of the funnel is full, ain't no more getting in until some goes out the bottom. Great over simplification of what happens, but works well enough for discussion purposes. I really think that most of the hot weather cooling issues could be fixed with properly sized/designed cowl flaps. But WTFDIK, still working on wings? Kelly On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:52 PM, John Cox wrote: > Cowl flaps control airflow out of the low pressure end. > > John Cox > ________________________________ > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Richard Bibb > Sent: Fri 12/4/2009 1:20 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Cooler Valve > > > Richard Bibb > > "What is really needed IMHO is a valve to control the airflow into the cowl. > Any of you inventors out there have any ideas?" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2009
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in December's
Flying I just finished Dick Karl's Gear Up column in the December 09 issue of Flying. He continued his not-always-attractively honest reportage of his journey in high end private flight in his Cheyenne. (It eventually gets posted on the Web but for now you have to get the magazine as far as I can tell). Cheyenne - RV10 - whatever, this situation could catch the best of us, especially if not familiar with airport. He got a difficult clearance at a difficult moment and forgot to reset the power while thinking things through. Definitely scared the crap out of himself. And it hit many of the points that were discussed here over the last few days. I've never flown into Lebanon airport but I have polished the surrounding mountains and explored some of the narrow valley fields. We once did a mass formation landing during a Region 1 glider meet at nearby Montpelier VT's airport. While waiting for a tow out, I remember wandering thru the terminal and seeing a giant granite wall welcoming us to the granite state. Those mountains are tall.... and hard too! Yeah, I know, it's just the east and I think it was daylight. Bill "ready for the shop" Watson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
From: "cjay" <cgfinney(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 05, 2009
Before the thread gets diverted, who won the debate? Does the oil cooler valve provide utility? I have an extra push pull cable available if its a good idea since I didn't hook up the FAB alternate bypass valve. cjay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276311#276311 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
From: "cjay" <cgfinney(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 05, 2009
Before the thread gets diverted, who won the debate? Does the oil cooler valve provide utility? I have an extra push pull cable available if its a good idea since I didn't hook up the FAB alternate bypass valve. cjay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276312#276312 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Valve
Date: Dec 05, 2009
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
VG9vayBhIHNlY29uZC4gQnV0IEknbGwgbmV2ZXIgZm9yZ2V0IHRoYXQgb25lIGFuZCB3aWxsIHBy b2JhYmx5IHN0ZWFsIGl0IGF0IHNvbWUgcG9pbnQuIDopDQoNCg0KDQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBKZXNzZSBTYWludCA8amVzc2VAc2FpbnRhdmlhdGlvbi5jb20+ DQpUbzogcnYxMC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gPHJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0K U2VudDogU2F0IERlYyAwNSAwNTowMDoyMiAyMDA5DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBP aWwgQ29vbGVyIFZhbHZlDQoNCi0tPiBSVjEwLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IEplc3Nl IFNhaW50IDxqZXNzZUBzYWludGF2aWF0aW9uLmNvbT4NCg0KSSBoYWQgdG8gbG9vayB0aGF0IG9u ZSB1cC4gIEFtIEkgdGhlIG9ubHkgb25lPw0KDQpkbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZQ0KDQpKZXNzZSBTYWlu dA0KU2FpbnQgQXZpYXRpb24sIEluYy4NCmplc3NlQHNhaW50YXZpYXRpb24uY29tDQpDZWxsOiAz NTItNDI3LTAyODUNCkZheDogODE1LTM3Ny0zNjk0DQoNCk9uIERlYyA0LCAyMDA5LCBhdCA5OjU5 IFBNLCByaWNrc2tlZEBlbWJhcnFtYWlsLmNvbSB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiAtLT4gUlYxMC1MaXN0IG1l c3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVkIGJ5OiByaWNrc2tlZEBlbWJhcnFtYWlsLmNvbQ0KPiANCj4gS2VsbHkuLg0K


November 25, 2009 - December 05, 2009

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