RV10-Archive.digest.vol-fw
January 13, 2010 - January 16, 2010
Finally got out to the Eci page-
http://www.eci.aero/pages/tech.aspx#breakin
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:30 PM
| Subject: | Re: IO 540 motor oil? |
I spoke to Lycoming's Bart, He then spoke to the tech department. He
said that the Cortec VC1-326 could be added to a 20w-50 mineral engine
oil in a 1 to 10 ratio. I will be using a syringe to fill the two
cylinders that lost the oil whan I removed the lower plugs.
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: IO 540 motor oil?
> From: Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net
> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:03:16 -0800
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Per Ricksked if the engine is new you MUST use straight Mineral Oil
per Lycoming's specs until "the oil consumption stabilizes". Get it from
your local FBO, Spruce, or Chief Aircraft. Be sure to drain all of the
preservative oil from the engine first.
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - testing phase 1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281189#281189
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
Jake those look just fine. You will find you will get the cut and finish
next to the fine line skills will come back fast. Kind of like coloring
book skills as a kid. What helps me get a nice straight edge is I use a 12
in disk sander that is mounted on my shop smith. With the table 90 degrees
to the sanding disk I get a nice clean straight and square edge on material
I am trying to make.
Check Harbor Freight for a cheap table top 8-10 in disc sander there worth
every penny.
John G. Cumins
40864 Emp in primer mode
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JHearnsberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:21 AM
Subject: RV10-List: rear spar caps
I clamped, marked, and cut the rear spar caps outside of my line using a
band saw.
My cuts had a couple of gradual waves in them. I worked them out with an air
belt sander and file by clamping the two pieces back to back to try to get
them even.
It is not that big of a deal other than I would like to get as much insight
as possible while starting out. The cut is not perfect, but will it be ok?
Please see attached images.
Also, my air belt sander uses 60 to 120 grit belts. Is this fine enough for
deburring aluminum?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281268#281268
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0107_114.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0108_237.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0109_150.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Steeves" <Brian.Steeves(at)Parkenna.com> |
Vans is way behind on the wing kits. I ordered a slow build end of August and
just received a phone call today that it should ship next week.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281305#281305
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Cabin Cover Question |
On 43-7 requires the bending the top portion of the F-1042 bulkhead side
channel. My question is how difficult to take the cabin cover off after
making this bend? I'm not ready to put the cabin cover on for good yet.
There is a reference on 43-10 that states the cover is on for good. It
appears to me that it would be darn impossible to take the cover off once
the bulkhead is bent to conform to the cabin cover. I'm just looking for
conformation or denial of my suspicion.
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Cover Question |
It's not bad. I've done it a thousand times lately. You just have to
set one side in and pulltje other side around the vended channel. Go
for it!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 13, 2010, at 13:03, "Bob Leffler" wrote:
> On 43-7 requires the bending the top portion of the F-1042 bulkhead
> side channel. My question is how difficult to take the cabin cover
> off after making this bend? I=99m not ready to put the cabin
cover o
> n for good yet. There is a reference on 43-10 that states the cov
> er is on for good. It appears to me that it would be darn impossib
> le to take the cover off once the bulkhead is bent to conform to the
> cabin cover. I=99m just looking for conformation or denial of
my sus
> picion.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Cover Question |
not difficult Bob. The side of the cover flexes enough to pull it out
past the bend before you lift it up.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Jan 13, 2010, at 12:03 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
> On 43-7 requires the bending the top portion of the F-1042 bulkhead
> side channel. My question is how difficult to take the cabin cover
> off after making this bend? I=92m not ready to put the cabin cover
> on for good yet. There is a reference on 43-10 that states the
> cover is on for good. It appears to me that it would be darn
> impossible to take the cover off once the bulkhead is bent to
> conform to the cabin cover. I=92m just looking for conformation or
> denial of my suspicion.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Cabin Cover Question |
Thanks Sean!
How=99s the overhead console coming along?
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cabin Cover Question
It's not bad. I've done it a thousand times lately. You just have to set
one side in and pulltje other side around the vended channel. Go for
it!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 13, 2010, at 13:03, "Bob Leffler" wrote:
On 43-7 requires the bending the top portion of the F-1042 bulkhead side
channel. My question is how difficult to take the cabin cover off
after making this bend? I=99m not ready to put the cabin cover
on for good yet. There is a reference on 43-10 that states the cover
is on for good. It appears to me that it would be darn impossible to
take the cover off once the bulkhead is bent to conform to the cabin
cover. I=99m just looking for conformation or denial of my
suspicion.
Thanks,
Bob
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Cover Question |
Great! It fit really well and it's glued on for good. I have been
taking the canopy off and on for the door fitting. It was really hard
for me to figure out the steps of the canopy. I was afraid to mount the
canopy with clecos and fit the doors so I have been bolting and clecoing
the entire canopy for the doors. I then have to take it back off and
sand and fill so I can paint the interior. I am 90 percent sure right
now that I will be painting the canopy instead of using a headliner. I
could do either one with the overhead console. It has been easy to
blend because the lip is so thin. I am doing some stuff with the
aluminum inserts for lighting and I will be taking some pics soon. I
had to work today so I am in BOI and away from my baby. Call me if you
have any questions.
801-580-3737
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Leffler
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cabin Cover Question
Thanks Sean!
How=99s the overhead console coming along?
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:12 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cabin Cover Question
It's not bad. I've done it a thousand times lately. You just have to
set one side in and pulltje other side around the vended channel. Go
for it!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 13, 2010, at 13:03, "Bob Leffler" wrote:
On 43-7 requires the bending the top portion of the F-1042 bulkhead
side channel. My question is how difficult to take the cabin cover off
after making this bend? I=99m not ready to put the cabin cover
on for good yet. There is a reference on 43-10 that states the cover
is on for good. It appears to me that it would be darn impossible to
take the cover off once the bulkhead is bent to conform to the cabin
cover. I=99m just looking for conformation or denial of my
suspicion.
Thanks,
Bob
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www
.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | "JHearnsberger" <jakehearnsberger(at)gmail.com> |
Thank you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281328#281328
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
Early on in building I was advised to get a roll of the 3" wide adhesive
backed sand paper usually sold in auto supply houses. You can stick it to
most anything, a socket for small radis, a section of PVC pipe for larger, a
form you cut from wood for the windshield lower fairing, or a short section
of 2x4. Most useful to me was 80 and 220. A long roll was about $33 as I
recall and I used about half a roll in building. Also you might look at a
vixen file.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com> |
Wow, thanks for that info Brian. I think I will order my slow build wings
this week.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Steeves" <Brian.Steeves(at)Parkenna.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Wing Kit
>
>
> Vans is way behind on the wing kits. I ordered a slow build end of August
> and just received a phone call today that it should ship next week.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281305#281305
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | "JHearnsberger" <jakehearnsberger(at)gmail.com> |
What type of scotchbrite wheel? Is it the rolec pad? I am looking for something
to attach to my die grinder. Also, what grit?
Sent from my iPhone.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281348#281348
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
3M SCOTCH-BRITE DEBURRING WHEEL from Aircraft Spruce
On Jan 13, 2010, at 3:07 PM, JHearnsberger wrote:
> >
>
> What type of scotchbrite wheel? Is it the rolec pad? I am looking
> for something to attach to my die grinder. Also, what grit?
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281348#281348
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
I think I'll take the plunge on the FWF kit before the prices go up at
the end of the month. Are there any items to leave out of the Vans
order (other than the hoses) and source somewhere else? Also, what's
the weight penalty and additional install time for the Throttle
Quadrant?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
... seeing the light at the end of the fiberglass tunnel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
Jeff;
Vans now has quality hoses in their kits. I was quite surprised to see
firesleeves on the fluid hoses.
You will need to order the fuel line hose that goes to the fuel injector,
that is not part of the kit.
I ordered mine from Aircraft hoses. they knew what hose I needed.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FWF Kit
>
> I think I'll take the plunge on the FWF kit before the prices go up at
> the end of the month. Are there any items to leave out of the Vans order
> (other than the hoses) and source somewhere else? Also, what's the
> weight penalty and additional install time for the Throttle Quadrant?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> ... seeing the light at the end of the fiberglass tunnel
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | "JHearnsberger" <jakehearnsberger(at)gmail.com> |
I think I would prefer to use it in a bench grinder. Does anyone have any recommendations
for a good bench grinder to use with the scotchbrite wheel?
Thanks,
Jake
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281359#281359
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Colohan <rv10(at)colohan.com> |
Ooooh, price increases. (I've been waffling on when to order my tail kit,
this might push me over the edge.)
Any word on what the new prices might look like (how much they will go up)?
Chris
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> I think I'll take the plunge on the FWF kit before the prices go up at the
> end of the month. Are there any items to leave out of the Vans order (other
> than the hoses) and source somewhere else? Also, what's the weight penalty
> and additional install time for the Throttle Quadrant?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> ... seeing the light at the end of the fiberglass tunnel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <ricksked(at)cox.net> |
They are on the website by now but usually 3 to 5 percent
Done buying for now, next time I get the repeat offender price!!
Rick Sked
N246RS
Flying
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF Kit
Ooooh, price increases. (I've been waffling on when to order my tail kit,
this might push me over the edge.)
Any word on what the new prices might look like (how much they will go up)?
Chris
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Jeff Carpenter
wrote:
I think I'll take the plunge on the FWF kit before the prices go up at the
end of the month. Are there any items to leave out of the Vans order (other
than the hoses) and source somewhere else? Also, what's the weight penalty
and additional install time for the Throttle Quadrant?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
... seeing the light at the end of the fiberglass tunnel
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
your conditionals or change tires.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | oil adapter spacer |
For those who have installed the B&C angled oil adapter, what size
spacer did you need if any?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA
Muskego, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours... and the
pilot side was worse than the other side.- At the same time I installed
air stop tubes.- Guess It's getting time to get an order together for tir
es.- Brakes looked good.
Which pads did you order?
Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?
Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for flying.- J
ust enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground.- Going up tomorrow tho
ugh.
Don McDonald
--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis wrote:
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14 PM
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot) side
tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right is also
showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to try a
nd get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire off the
axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the floor! It a
ppears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet liner to the pa
d let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk are
a. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement i
n the brake when activated. But, if the brake wear had been greater, there'
s a possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and jammed it self agai
nst the brake disc. If this had happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't
have wanted to be along for that ride. Checking with the locals this is a
problem that one person has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set
too tight. since these were the parts that came with the kit from Clevelan
d, I would expect- that they should have some quality control in
their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison- wi
th the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that- the
y are 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the- shoulder of
the brake material that holds them- was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyw
ay replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
your conditionals or change tires.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)yahoo.com> |
Congratulations Jay! Can hardly wait to be where you are. I am 75 hrs into my slow
build. It is going to be the same for me...all 172 time except for some flights
with a friend in his -9A.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
A&P 5/93', PP 10/08'
Grayson, KY
Bldr# 40983
Ordered complete kit 8/24/09
DB Schenker delivered 11/20/09
Starting empennage 11/24/09
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281369#281369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: oil adapter spacer |
Dave, I was a real newbie when I ran into this issue.... and I didn't know
the matronics board existed...- Anyway, I made my own adaptor which attat
ched to the engine, and a second, stock, adaptor went on next.- It looked
to me that the mount needed to be both spaced-rearward and offset.- It
appears to have worked.... engine performing beautifully, with all the rig
ht pressures, for over 100 hours.
Don McDonald
--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Dave Leikam wrote:
From: Dave Leikam <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: RV10-List: oil adapter spacer
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:42 PM
For those who have installed the B&C angled oil adapter, what size spacer d
id you need if any?
-
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA
Muskego, WI
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
| From: | ricksked(at)cox.net |
Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to lose
weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the little nibs
on the tire after almost 80 hours :)
Rick
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:13
Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
your conditionals or change tires.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to
lose weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the
little nibs on the tire after almost 80 hours :)
Rick
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:13
Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
your conditionals or change tires.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
Rick
It is not that you need to loose weight cause if that was the issue the wear
would be in the inside on the outside. Outside wear is very common on
spring steel gear give it time and it might get better as the gear gets more
wear and tare on it. Either that Vans needs to correct the axel angle on
the gear leg it self.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to
lose weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the
little nibs on the tire after almost 80 hours :)
Rick
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:13
Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
your conditionals or change tires.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <ricksked(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | oil adapter spacer |
Dave you will need the adapter=85here is a link to B & C and I think you
need
the .75 or =BE=94=85I really can=92t remember=85I need to go and measure
if someone
else doesn=92t pipe in.
http://www.bandc.biz/oil-filter-adapter.aspx
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: oil adapter spacer
For those who have installed the B&C angled oil adapter, what size
spacer
did you need if any?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA
Muskego, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <ricksked(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
Not my issue!!!! Ken Scott or aka...the ego deflator..told me that...not
really...just thought it was funny that both Deems and I had tire wear on
the left more than the right...you still coming in on the 20th?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Rick
It is not that you need to loose weight cause if that was the issue the wear
would be in the inside on the outside. Outside wear is very common on
spring steel gear give it time and it might get better as the gear gets more
wear and tare on it. Either that Vans needs to correct the axel angle on
the gear leg it self.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to
lose weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the
little nibs on the tire after almost 80 hours :)
Rick
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:13
Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
your conditionals or change tires.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
air stop tubes came with the kit.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours... and the
pilot side was worse than the other side. At the same time I installed air
stop tubes. Guess It's getting time to get an order together for tires.
Brakes looked good.
Which pads did you order?
Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?
Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for flying. Just
enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground. Going up tomorrow though.
Don McDonald
--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis wrote:
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14 PM
<http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net> >
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot) side
tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right is also
showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to try
and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire off the
axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the floor! It
appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet liner to the
pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk
area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement
in the brake when activated. But, if the brake wear had been greater,
there's a possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and jammed it self
against the brake disc. If this had happened on landing and braking, I
wouldn't have wanted to be along for that ride. Checking with the locals
this is a problem that one person has seen when the rivets holding the
liners are set too tight. since these were the parts that came with the kit
from Cleveland, I would expect that they should have some quality control
in their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison
with the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they
are 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do your
conditionals or change tires.
Deems atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/= - MATRONICS cs.com/"
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
One of the easier ways to use a large Scotchbrite wheel is to mount it in a
drill press, and just run the pieces over it. Leaves both hands free to
manipulate/control the piece being deburred. Easier to install and remove
than in a bench grinder. For large/ long pieces, like skins, a small
scotchbrite wheel in a die grinder or hand drill works fine.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:35 PM, JHearnsberger
wrote:
> jakehearnsberger(at)gmail.com>
>
> I think I would prefer to use it in a bench grinder. Does anyone have any
> recommendations for a good bench grinder to use with the scotchbrite wheel?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281359#281359
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I forgot to mention, generally you will get smoother results if the piece is
parallel to the rotating wheel, not the axis it is rotating about. That is
why the wheel on horizontal axis with shaft vertical works well with long
pieces held horizontal.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> One of the easier ways to use a large Scotchbrite wheel is to mount it in a
> drill press, and just run the pieces over it. Leaves both hands free to
> manipulate/control the piece being deburred. Easier to install and remove
> than in a bench grinder. For large/ long pieces, like skins, a small
> scotchbrite wheel in a die grinder or hand drill works fine.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:35 PM, JHearnsberger > wrote:
>
>> jakehearnsberger(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> I think I would prefer to use it in a bench grinder. Does anyone have any
>> recommendations for a good bench grinder to use with the scotchbrite wheel?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jake
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281359#281359
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | "JHearnsberger" <jakehearnsberger(at)gmail.com> |
What a great tip! Thank you.
I found the 7a wheels here http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Manufacturing/Industry/Product-Catalog/Online-Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQGLE0_nid=8ZFZHRFX71beH55CPWS904gl
I am hoping I can find it locally somewhere.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281387#281387
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Most of the tool kit suppliers include a large wheel as part of their
kits and sell separately. They aren't cheap, but one should do you for
the entire build process.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:14 PM, JHearnsberger
wrote:
>
> What a great tip! Thank you.
>
> I found the 7a wheels here http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Manufacturing/Industry/Product-Catalog/Online-Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQGLE0_nid=8ZFZHRFX71beH55CPWS904gl
>
> I am hoping I can find it locally somewhere.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281387#281387
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
They are around 50$ I am 99 percent done with the aluminum parts and
I'm on number three??? I know other builders that just used one or two
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 13, 2010, at 21:46, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Most of the tool kit suppliers include a large wheel as part of their
> kits and sell separately. They aren't cheap, but one should do you for
> the entire build process.
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:14 PM, JHearnsberger
> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> What a great tip! Thank you.
>>
>> I found the 7a wheels here http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Manufacturing/Industry/Product-Catalog/Online-Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQGLE0_nid=8ZFZHRFX71beH55CPWS904gl
>>
>> I am hoping I can find it locally somewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281387#281387
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
Though the scotch-brite wheel is very useful, I ultimately found that
skins and long parts that were difficult to get to the wheel were
easily deburred with a large vixen file run a few times along an edge
at different angles. It's also pretty easy to overwork a part with
the scotch-brite wheel
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Yearning for the good old days of metal work... when fiberglass was
far off in the future
On Jan 13, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> 3M SCOTCH-BRITE DEBURRING WHEEL from Aircraft Spruce
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2010, at 3:07 PM, JHearnsberger wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> What type of scotchbrite wheel? Is it the rolec pad? I am looking
>> for something to attach to my die grinder. Also, what grit?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281348#281348
>>
>>
>>
>> - The RV10-List --> &n=======================
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
After 750 hours our tires still wear on the outside. The tires sit fairly straight
when on the ground, but most of the wear comes from the little squeek when
the tires go from 0-60kts at touchdown. When flying, the outside of the tire
is lower than the inside. The more landings you do, the more your tires will
wear. We just got about 150+ hours on the outside and just rotated them to
the inside. The nose tire was just replaced. How have people been seeing the
wear on the nose? It should be much less than the mains, or course, unless you
get a bad shimmy, but I don't remember if we have changed that before or not.
I'd have to go back and check through the logs.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jan 13, 2010, at 9:19 PM, John Cumins wrote:
>
> Rick
>
> It is not that you need to loose weight cause if that was the issue the wear
> would be in the inside on the outside. Outside wear is very common on
> spring steel gear give it time and it might get better as the gear gets more
> wear and tare on it. Either that Vans needs to correct the axel angle on
> the gear leg it self.
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked(at)cox.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:05 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
>
>
> Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to
> lose weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the
> little nibs on the tire after almost 80 hours :)
>
> Rick
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:13
> To:
> Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
>
>
> I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
> side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
> is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
>
> What have others experienced?
>
> So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
> try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
> off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
> floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
> liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
> the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
> therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
> wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
> have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
> happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
> that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
> has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
> these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
> expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
> eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
> inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
> 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
> brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
> replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
> your conditionals or change tires.
>
> Deems Davis
> N519PJ
> www.deemsrv10.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 01/13/2010 07:35 PM, JHearnsberger wrote:
>
> I think I would prefer to use it in a bench grinder. Does anyone have any recommendations
for a good bench grinder to use with the scotchbrite wheel?
I'm using one of these el cheapo $40 ones - works fine, price is right,
and it comes with a polishing wheel.
<http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43533>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43533
Replacement wheel kits are cheap $6:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43758>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43758
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> Though the scotch-brite wheel is very useful, I ultimately found that
> skins and long parts that were difficult to get to the wheel were
> easily deburred with a large vixen file run a few times along an edge
> at different angles.
The vixen file seems to be the ideal tool for dressing the edges of
tail/wing skins. I had no idea what it was or how to use it but I
described what I found out in a post - search the archives for 'Vixen'
and look for my post (I can't find the supporting pics). A very useful
tool and very basic technique for skin deburring. Very productive.
I found that the scotchbrite wheel in a floor mounted bench grinder to
be by far the tool I use the most. Still do. I'm on my second wheel at
3+ years of a 4 year QB. The drill press thing sounds good - never
thought about the axis thing but I wouldn't want to have to mount and
de-mount it all the time. On the bench grinder, I first had a coarse
and fine wheel - found just the coarse is fine. Mounted a regular
grinding wheel in the other for the little bits of steel work we do.
The little SB wheel in the die grinder is very handy when needed too.
Have worn one out, on number 2. I used Avery's 3700 but I think I got
it from Cleaveland:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-351-43-scotch-brite-cutting---polishing--wheel--kit.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
Too bad Deems is flying, maybe he could come up with a way to pre-accelerate
the tires to landing speed for smoother landings with less tire wear. Heh.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
After 750 hours our tires still wear on the outside. The tires sit fairly straight
when on the ground, but most of the wear comes from the little squeek when
the tires go from 0-60kts at touchdown. When flying, the outside of the tire
is lower than the inside. The more landings you do, the more your tires will
wear. We just got about 150+ hours on the outside and just rotated them to
the inside. The nose tire was just replaced. How have people been seeing the
wear on the nose? It should be much less than the mains, or course, unless you
get a bad shimmy, but I don't remember if we have changed that before or not.
I'd have to go back and check through the logs.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jan 13, 2010, at 9:19 PM, John Cumins wrote:
>
> Rick
>
> It is not that you need to loose weight cause if that was the issue the wear
> would be in the inside on the outside. Outside wear is very common on
> spring steel gear give it time and it might get better as the gear gets more
> wear and tare on it. Either that Vans needs to correct the axel angle on
> the gear leg it self.
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked(at)cox.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:05 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
>
>
> Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to
> lose weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the
> little nibs on the tire after almost 80 hours :)
>
> Rick
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:13
> To:
> Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
>
>
> I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
> side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
> is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
>
> What have others experienced?
>
> So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
> try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
> off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
> floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
> liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
> the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
> therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
> wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
> have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
> happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
> that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
> has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
> these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
> expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
> eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
> inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
> 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
> brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
> replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
> your conditionals or change tires.
>
> Deems Davis
> N519PJ
> www.deemsrv10.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps- must read |
Bill is right on... Jeff using the file is fine, but finish EVERYTHIG off w
ith the grinder held scotchbrite wheel or the small scotchbrite wheels show
n below.- I forgot where I got mine, and hadn't got around to ordering mo
re, so I've been making due with the little nubs that I've got left.- Ord
er the "kit", you won't be sorry.- Best and easiest way to deburr everyth
ing.
Don McDonad
--- On Thu, 1/14/10, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: rear spar caps
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:00 AM
.com>
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> Though the scotch-brite wheel is very useful, I ultimately found that ski
ns and long parts that were difficult to get to the wheel were easily debur
red with a large vixen file run a few times along- an edge at different a
ngles.
The vixen file seems to be the ideal- tool for dressing the edges of tail
/wing skins.- I had no idea what it was or how to use it but I described
what I found out in a post - search the archives for 'Vixen' and look for m
y post (I can't find the supporting pics).- A very useful tool and very b
asic technique for skin deburring.- Very productive.
I found that the scotchbrite wheel in a floor mounted bench grinder to be b
y far the tool I use the most.- Still do.- I'm on my second wheel at 3+
years of a 4 year QB.- The drill press thing sounds good - never thought
about the axis thing but I wouldn't want to have to mount and de-mount-
it all the time.- On the bench grinder, I first had a coarse and fine whe
el - found just the coarse is fine.- Mounted a regular grinding wheel in
the other for the little bits of steel work we do.
The little SB wheel in the die grinder is very handy when needed too.- Ha
ve worn one out, on number 2.- I- used Avery's 3700 but I think I got i
t from Cleaveland:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-351-43-scotch-brite-cutting---polishing--wheel
--kit.aspx
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
Thanks all for the feedback re tires. It appears that uneven outside
wear is the 'norm'. I wonder if we're all landing left wheel 1st? Or if
Van's has a slight error in the gear weldment? I reject Rick's
hypothesis regarding 'unequal weight distribution' :-) . I've got em
flipped and will watch closer for the next period. I've also had a
couple of positive recommendations for retreads for future replacements.
I haven't worked on Alaska, my hangar neighbor from AK just returned, so
I'll have to ping him.
I don't want to make everyone green, but it's 70 deg and CAVU here in
PHX. 8-)
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
Don McDonald wrote:
> Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours...
> and the pilot side was worse than the other side. At the same time I
> installed air stop tubes. Guess It's getting time to get an order
> together for tires. Brakes looked good.
> Which pads did you order?
> Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?
> Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for
> flying. Just enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground. Going up
> tomorrow though.
> Don McDonald
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis //* wrote:
>
>
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
> Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14 PM
>
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>
> I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left(
> pilot) side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the
> tire, the Right is also showing wear on the outside, but not as
> extreme.
>
> What have others experienced?
>
> So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes
> to try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the
> left tire off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad
> dropped to the floor! It appears that the shoulder that is
> supposed to hold the rivet liner to the pad let go, and the rivet
> heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk area. Fortunately
> there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement in the
> brake when activated. But, if the brake wear had been greater,
> there's a possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and
> jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had happened on
> landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for that
> ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
> has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight.
> since these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland,
> I would expect that they should have some quality control in
> their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and
> comparison with the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets,
> it appears that they are 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and
> possibly the shoulder of the brake material that holds them was
> thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway replacement pads on on there
> way. Something to keep in mind when you do your conditionals or
> change tires.
>
> Deems atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/= - MATRONICS
> cs.com/" ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin=========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
I rotate inner to outer one annual condition inspection, then exchange
left & right next annual and repeat inner to outer at the next one.
Turn nose wheel around each annual.
Works ok to keep all wear about equal.
Remember on inner to outer, be careful and dust up the tube well and
partially inflate it to keep from pinching the tube (learned that one
the hard way.....)
grumpy
On Jan 14, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the feedback re tires. It appears that uneven outside
> wear is the 'norm'. I wonder if we're all landing left wheel 1st? Or
> if Van's has a slight error in the gear weldment? I reject Rick's
> hypothesis regarding 'unequal weight distribution' :-) . I've got
> em flipped and will watch closer for the next period. I've also had
> a couple of positive recommendations for retreads for future
> replacements.
> I haven't worked on Alaska, my hangar neighbor from AK just
> returned, so I'll have to ping him.
> I don't want to make everyone green, but it's 70 deg and CAVU here
> in PHX. 8-)
>
> Deems Davis
> N519PJ
> www.deemsrv10.com
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
>> Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours...
>> and the pilot side was worse than the other side. At the same time
>> I installed air stop tubes. Guess It's getting time to get an
>> order together for tires. Brakes looked good.
>> Which pads did you order?
>> Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?
>> Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for
>> flying. Just enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground. Going
>> up tomorrow though.
>> Don McDonald
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis //* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14 PM
>>
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>>
>> I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left(
>> pilot) side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the
>> tire, the Right is also showing wear on the outside, but not as
>> extreme.
>>
>> What have others experienced?
>>
>> So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes
>> to try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the
>> left tire off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad
>> dropped to the floor! It appears that the shoulder that is
>> supposed to hold the rivet liner to the pad let go, and the rivet
>> heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk area. Fortunately
>> there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement in the
>> brake when activated. But, if the brake wear had been greater,
>> there's a possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and
>> jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had happened on
>> landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for that
>> ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
>> has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight.
>> since these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland,
>> I would expect that they should have some quality control in
>> their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and
>> comparison with the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets,
>> it appears that they are 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and
>> possibly the shoulder of the brake material that holds them was
>> thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway replacement pads on on there
>> way. Something to keep in mind when you do your conditionals or
>> change tires.
>>
>> Deems atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
>> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/= - MATRONICS
>> cs.com/" ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin=========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps- must read |
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> TOOL GUIDE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> DRILL PRESS: A tall
>> upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat
>> metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks
>> you in the chest and
>> flings your beer across the room, denting the
>> freshly-painted project
>> which you had carefully set in the corner where
>> nothing could get to it.
>>
>> WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws
>> them somewhere under
>> the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes
>> fingerprints and
>> hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time
>> it takes you to ay,
>> 'Oh sh --'
>>
>> SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make
>> studs too short.
>>
>> PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes
>> used in the creation of
>> blood-blisters.
>>
>> BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used
>> to convert minor
>> touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.
>>
>> HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on
>> the Ouija board
>> principle. It transforms human energy into a
>> crooked, unpredictable
>> motion, and the more you attempt to influence its
>> course, the more
>> dismal your future becomes.
>>
>> VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to
>> completely round off bolt
>> heads. If nothing else is available, they can also
>> be used to transfer
>> intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.
>>
>> OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for
>> lighting various flammable
>> objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for
>> igniting the grease inside
>> the wheel hub out of which you want to remove a
>> bearing race.
>>
>> TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly
>> used to launch wood
>> projectiles for testing wall integrity.
>>
>> HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an
>> automobile to the ground
>> after you have installed your new brake shoes,
>> trapping the jack handle
>> firmly under the bumper.
>>
>> BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily
>> used by most shops to
>> cut good aluminum sheet into smaller pieces that
>> more easily fit into
>> the trash can after you cut on the inside of the
>> line instead of the
>> outside edge.
>>
>> TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the
>> maximum tensile strength of
>> everything you forgot to disconnect.
>>
>> PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the
>> vacuum seals under lids
>> or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and
>> splashing oil on
>> your shirt; but can also be used, as the name
>> implies, to strip out
>> phillips screw heads.
>>
>> STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint
>> cans. Sometimes used to
>> convert common slotted screws into non-removable
>> screws and butchering
>> your palms.
>>
>> PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal
>> surrounding that clip or
>> bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a
>> 50 cent part.
>>
>> HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too
>> short.
>>
>> HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the
>> hammer nowadays is
>> used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most
>> expensive parts
>> adjacent the object we are trying to hit.
>>
>> UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the
>> contents of cardboard
>> cartons delivered to your front door; works
>> particularly well on
>> contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in
>> plastic bottles,
>> collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or
>> plastic parts.
>> Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but
>> only while in use.
>>
>> SON OF A BITCH TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab
>> and throw across the
>> garage while yelling 'Son of a bitch' at the top of
>> your lungs. It is
>> also, most often, the next tool that you will
>> need.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign
>> up now.
>>
>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign
>> up now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If you are afraid to speak against tyranny,
>> then you are already a slave." -- author
>> John "Birdman" Bryant (1943-2009)
>>
>>
>>
>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
>>
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>>
>>
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:12, Don McDonald
wrote:
> Bill is right on... Jeff using the file is fine, but finish
> EVERYTHIG off with the grinder held scotchbrite wheel or the small
> scotchbrite wheels shown below. I forgot where I got mine, and
> hadn't got around to ordering more, so I've been making due with the
> little nubs that I've got left. Order the "kit", you won't be
> sorry. Best and easiest way to deburr everything.
> Don McDonad
>
> --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Bill Mauledriver Watson
> wrote:
>
> From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: rear spar caps
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:00 AM
>
> >
>
> Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> > Though the scotch-brite wheel is very useful, I ultimately found
> that skins and long parts that were difficult to get to the wheel
> were easily deburred with a large vixen file run a few times along
> an edge at different angles.
> The vixen file seems to be the ideal tool for dressing the edges of
> tail/wing skins. I had no idea what it was or how to use it but I
> described what I found out in a post - search the archives for
> 'Vixen' and look for my post (I can't find the supporting pics). A
> very useful tool and very basic technique for skin deburring. Very
> productive.
>
> I found that the scotchbrite wheel in a floor mounted bench grinder
> to be by far the tool I use the most. Still do. I'm on my second
> wheel at 3+ years of a 4 year QB. The drill press thing sounds good
> - never thought about the axis thing but I wouldn't want to have to
> mount and de-mount it all the time. On the bench grinder, I first
> had a coarse and fine wheel - found just the coarse is fine.
> Mounted a regular grinding wheel in the other for the little bits of
> steel work we do.
>
> The little SB wheel in the die grinder is very handy when needed
> too. Have worn one out, on number 2. I used Avery's 3700 but I
> think I got it from Cleaveland:
> http://www.averytools.com/pc-351-43-scotch-brite-cutting-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> " target=_blank>http://www.marums.matronics.com/" ; -
> Matt Dralle, List Admin=========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
> I was quite surprised to see
> firesleeves on the fluid hoses.
>
Pascal,
To satisfy my curiosity, do the fluid hoses in the FWF kit have external fire sleeves
like the 1st pic or integral firesleeves like the 124-6J hose in the 2nd
pic?
Thanks!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281496#281496
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hosefs1_114.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hose124_6j_110.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Which way does the wind blow at your home airport? e.g., do you do more landings
with a crosswind from the left, than from the right? Also, where is your hangar
with respect to the usual runway? Are you making mostly left turns?
As others have noted, wear on the outside of the tires is due to the spring gear
leg,which hangs low prior to touchdown. See the same thing with spring gear
Cessnas.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281509#281509
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
first picture
--------------------------------------------------
From: "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: FWF Kit
>
>
>> I was quite surprised to see
>> firesleeves on the fluid hoses.
>>
>
>
> Pascal,
> To satisfy my curiosity, do the fluid hoses in the FWF kit have external
> fire sleeves like the 1st pic or integral firesleeves like the 124-6J hose
> in the 2nd pic?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> Todd Stovall
> 728TT (reserved)
> RV-10 Empacone, Wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281496#281496
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/hosefs1_114.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/hose124_6j_110.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rear spar caps |
Another good technique for edge dressing is called "draw filling" wherein a
standard fine file is turned 90 degrees or perpendicular to the work and
dragged lightly alone the work edge. Like others have said the edge still
needs to be "polished" with a de-burring wheel of some kind.
Dick Sipp
N110DV 210 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
Rick
Yep I sure am will arrive about noon so I have the 20 and 21 afternoons
free. Shoot me a e-mail off list and we can get together on of those
afternoons.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Not my issue!!!! Ken Scott or aka...the ego deflator..told me that...not
really...just thought it was funny that both Deems and I had tire wear on
the left more than the right...you still coming in on the 20th?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Rick
It is not that you need to loose weight cause if that was the issue the wear
would be in the inside on the outside. Outside wear is very common on
spring steel gear give it time and it might get better as the gear gets more
wear and tare on it. Either that Vans needs to correct the axel angle on
the gear leg it self.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to
lose weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the
little nibs on the tire after almost 80 hours :)
Rick
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:13
Subject: RV10-List: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot)
side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right
is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.
What have others experienced?
So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to
try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire
off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the
floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet
liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of
the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and
therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake
wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would
have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had
happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for
that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person
has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since
these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would
expect that they should have some quality control in their mfg to
eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison with the
inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that they are
'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the shoulder of the
brake material that holds them was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway
replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do
your conditionals or change tires.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dogsbark(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | 1" Scotchbrite Wheels |
I found this on someone's website recently.=C2- Looks like a great deal.
=C2- I'm not sure if it's the exact composition as the product from Avery
, etc., but the price is incredible.
http://www.surplussales.com/Tools-Accessories/T-Aabrasives.html
Sean Blair
COS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1" Scotchbrite Wheels |
| From: | Chris Colohan <rv10(at)colohan.com> |
Ooooh. Great price. But some bad reviews in a Google search for this
vendor. But they have been around for quite some time...
I took a risk and ordered a package. I'll let you know if it turns out
poorly.
Chris
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:55 PM, wrote:
> I found this on someone's website recently. Looks like a great deal. I'm
> not sure if it's the exact composition as the product from Avery, etc., but
> the price is incredible.
>
>
> http://www.surplussales.com/Tools-Accessories/T-Aabrasives.html
>
>
> Sean Blair
>
> COS
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1" Scotchbrite Wheels |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Heck of a deal. Looks just like the smallest ones from Avery.
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:55 PM, wrote:
> I found this on someone's website recently. Looks like a great deal. I'm
> not sure if it's the exact composition as the product from Avery, etc., but
> the price is incredible.
>
>
> http://www.surplussales.com/Tools-Accessories/T-Aabrasives.html
>
>
> Sean Blair
>
> COS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Door safety latch |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Van's has issued a service bulletin for their new door safety latch, which I installed
2 weeks ago. They have started shipping parts kits to those flying and
those who have purchased finish kits. See attached link or go to Van's website.
The latch works very nicely and can also be used to pull the door inward while
closing the door handle.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281560#281560
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sb10_1_4_236.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | "Ron B." <cfxoa(at)klis.com> |
Any pictures or install drawings you can share?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281563#281563
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find
them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
update us all.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Door safety latch |
Jim,
Can you post a picture of the new latch?
Thanks,
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door safety latch
Van's has issued a service bulletin for their new door safety latch, which I
installed 2 weeks ago. They have started shipping parts kits to those flying
and those who have purchased finish kits. See attached link or go to Van's
website.
The latch works very nicely and can also be used to pull the door inward
while closing the door handle.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281560#281560
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sb10_1_4_236.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Door safety latch |
Anybody have the section 45A?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door safety latch
Van's has issued a service bulletin for their new door safety latch, which I
installed 2 weeks ago. They have started shipping parts kits to those flying
and those who have purchased finish kits. See attached link or go to Van's
website.
The latch works very nicely and can also be used to pull the door inward
while closing the door handle.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281560#281560
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sb10_1_4_236.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation |
If we actually think about it.... if the gear were perfectly straight, we w
ould simply wear out the center of the tire.... and then we're done.- The
way it is now, we wear out mostly a part of the tire that would never get
used, and then we get to turn them around and it's a brand new part of the
tire again.- What the hell are we bitching about!
Don McDonald
--- On Thu, 1/14/10, Bob Turner wrote:
From: Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:08 AM
Which way does the wind blow at your home airport? e.g., do you do more lan
dings with a crosswind from the left, than from the right? Also, where is y
our hangar with respect to the usual runway? Are you making mostly left tur
ns?
As others have noted, wear on the outside of the tires is due to the spring
gear leg,which hangs low prior to touchdown. See the same thing with sprin
g gear Cessnas.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281509#281509
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
It looks very much like the Staniforth latch in the archives. I will take some
pictures when I am out at the hangar tomorrow. My drawings are also at the hangar
right now. With a little care, there should be no problem installing in a
finished and painted door.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281570#281570
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Flap motor rod travel |
I am trying to set up my flap position sensor (ray allen) but the wings are
not on yet. Can someone tell me how far the rod travels out of the motor
assembly? Does it start fully retracted (reflex position) and then move "X"
inches out of the motor assembly which would be full flaps? I need to know
"X". Does this make sense?
Thanks
Chris
#40072
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: door handle & mechanism |
Hey Don,
Where did you find these CNC machined handles?
----- Original Message -----
From: Don McDonald
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
Spring for the cnc machined handles.... they work perfectly, are
a direct Vans replacement, and they look WAY better.
Don McDonald
--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Roxanne and Mike Lefever
wrote:
From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 8:57 PM
I can't be the first to declare the Van's door handle and
mechanism a total RPITA.......although not an engineer..........even I
could design a mousetrap better than this. After sanding the powder
coat off of the shaft handle, the spring is still too small to move on
the shaft and make the mechanism work. I thought bringing in my
Saturday night consulting engineer Jack (Daniels) would help but we
finally gave up tonight. Maybe a bigger hammer tomorrow will bring
success.
get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | door handle & mechanism |
Sean
If these are the ones you want :
http://davidnellis.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album18
<http://davidnellis.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album18&id
=dsc00655> &id=dsc00655 contact David Nellis at : davidnellis691(at)comcast.net
I have a set and they are very nice. I also used Steve Deniri's billed
handles on the outside for a nice flush fit.
Cheers
Les
#40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano
Sent: January-14-10 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
Hey Don,
Where did you find these CNC machined handles?
----- Original Message -----
From: Don McDonald <mailto:building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
Spring for the cnc machined handles.... they work perfectly, are a direct
Vans replacement, and they look WAY better.
Don McDonald
--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Roxanne and Mike Lefever wrote:
From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 8:57 PM
I can't be the first to declare the Van's door handle and mechanism a total
RPITA.......although not an engineer..........even I could design a
mousetrap better than this. After sanding the powder coat off of the shaft
handle, the spring is still too small to move on the shaft and make the
mechanism work. I thought bringing in my Saturday night consulting engineer
Jack (Daniels) would help but we finally gave up tonight. Maybe a bigger
hammer tomorrow will bring success.
get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: door handle & mechanism |
Cool thanks
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 14, 2010, at 20:30, "Les Kearney" wrote:
> Sean
>
> If these are the ones you want : http://davidnellis.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album18&id=dsc00655
> contact David Nellis at : davidnellis691(at)comcast.net
>
> I have a set and they are very nice. I also used Steve Deniri's
> billed handles on the outside for a nice flush fit.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano
> Sent: January-14-10 8:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
>
> Hey Don,
>
> Where did you find these CNC machined handles?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don McDonald
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
>
> Spring for the cnc machined handles.... they work perfectly, are a
> direct Vans replacement, and they look WAY better.
> Don McDonald
>
> --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Roxanne and Mike Lefever
> wrote:
>
> From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever <roxianmike(at)msn.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: door handle & mechanism
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 8:57 PM
>
> I can't be the first to declare the Van's door handle and mechanism
> a total RPITA.......although not an engineer..........even I could
> design a mousetrap better than this. After sanding the powder coat
> off of the shaft handle, the spring is still too small to move on
> the shaft and make the mechanism work. I thought bringing in my
> Saturday night consulting engineer Jack (Daniels) would help but we
> finally gave up tonight. Maybe a bigger hammer tomorrow will bring
> success.
>
>
> get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com> |
| Subject: | electric aileron trim |
Hey Guys
I'm getting ready to order my slow build wing kit and am wondering if
most builders have also bought the aileron trim kit from Vans. I intend
to install a Tru Tak autopilot and probably the Safety trim system that
Bob Newman sells. Not sure if using the autopilot etc makes any
difference with regards to the aileron trim system (I think not).
As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to
Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be
fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
All opinions welcome. Thx.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron McGann" <ronrvbuilder(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than 2
years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find
them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
update us all.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
Ron,
Unless the Aussie FAA sees things differently than our FAA, there is no s
uch thing as "grounded" or "mandatory" in the experimental world as the pil
ot and the FAA/NTSB are really the only two authorities here that can groun
d an aircraft here. As you said, people have been flying for years before
Van's acknowledged the problem with this SB. Use good judgment and go fly.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than
2 years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted.......
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find th
em. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to up
date us all.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
jrlark wrote:
>
> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>
In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to spend
a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build and
install.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I installed the Van's aileron trim and am glad I did. Fuel imbalance
and passenger loading makes a noticeable need for trim. If you feel
like fabricating your own system, I say go for it!
$.02 worth.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Jan 15, 2010, at 12:42 AM, Rick Lark wrote:
Hey Guys
I'm getting ready to order my slow build wing kit and am wondering if
most builders have also bought the aileron trim kit from Vans. I
intend to install a Tru Tak autopilot and probably the Safety trim
system that Bob Newman sells. Not sure if using the autopilot etc
makes any difference with regards to the aileron trim system (I think
not).
As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to
Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be
fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
All opinions welcome. Thx.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor rod travel |
If there isn't a 'plans-called-for' position, or you're doing it differently; I
would suggest waiting till the wings are on and you can use the actual...before
mounting anything.
I recall measuring the throw for my 6A and it was at least 5 inches of throw IIRC.
I found that only useful for general planning purposes and didn't drill any
mounting holes until stuff was there to use.
I relocated the flap drive on my 6A from the center to the side (the way the 8 is designed) using an idea that I took from Mel Jordan (http://bmnellis.com/BuilderIdeas/flap_mod.htm). Mel visited my project while it was under construction.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 14, 2010 8:43 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Flap motor rod travel
>
>I am trying to set up my flap position sensor (ray allen) but the wings are
>not on yet. Can someone tell me how far the rod travels out of the motor
>assembly? Does it start fully retracted (reflex position) and then move "X"
>inches out of the motor assembly which would be full flaps? I need to know
>"X". Does this make sense?
>
>Thanks
>
>Chris
>
>#40072
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
vans can't ground anybody; unless its in your government's regulations.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than 2
years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find
them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
update us all.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
fwiw. I'm using model airplane servos to turn hinge mounted on the
trailing edge of rudder and one aileron. You need a PWM signal to
operate the servos, but that's easy for me.
Linn
orchidman wrote:
>
>
> jrlark wrote:
>>
>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>
>
> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build
and install.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
both would appear to be overkill.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>
>
> jrlark wrote:
>>
>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>
>
> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build and
install.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
Damn
You mean I'm grounded until I get this done!
Except for the panel, wiring, and wing installation I was ready to go flying
today....
Cheers
Les
#40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: January-14-10 10:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than 2
years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find
them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
update us all.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
If you want to save time on the controller, for a cost, Eric at Perihelion Designs
has a nice little unit called the EGPNMSC.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Kelley;
I put both in mine. Most of the time you will set the aileron trim at
one position and never move it. Depending on who's flying with you (I
tend to have the same left wheel wear problem Deems has), you may need
to adjust it. Also, I had to have my autopilot serviced and did a
couple long cross country trips. Having the aileron trim helps decrease
your workload and cut down some of the heading drift. My vote is that
it is worth the installation.
Dr Fred.
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
> should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
> reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
> have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
> both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>>
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build
and install.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor rod travel |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
[quote="toaster73(at)embarqmail.c"]I am trying to set up my flap position sensor
(ray allen) but the wings are not on yet. Can someone tell me how far the rod
travels out of the motor assembly? Does it start fully retracted (reflex position)
and then move X inches out of the motor assembly which would be full
flaps? I need to know X. Does this make sense?
Thanks
Chris
#40072
> [b]
Chris,
I am also using the Ray Allen position sensor (the VP200 needs it), so I removed
and sold the Van's unit. The limited travel of the RA means you will have to
position the rod very close to axis. I calculated about an inch, which is very
close to the nearest lightening hole at the axis. I put a unique little spacer
I found at Ace Hardware in the hole. It has a threaded hole in it. I mounted
the RA with double-sided tape and ran the motor full throw. No matter what you
do, it will pull the RA off the tape, one way or the other.
There is another RV-10 in the hangar with me and I tried to figure it out on theirs,
with limited success. I have decided that I will leave the RA loose for
now, and once the flaps are on, find the right place. I suspect I will need to
offset the mounting point a little more towards the axis. A task for another
day.
John
--------
#40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon. Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281625#281625
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door SB just posted |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
So first flight at noon Les? ;-p
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Les Kearney wrote:
> Damn
>
> You mean I'm grounded until I get this done!
>
> Except for the panel, wiring, and wing installation I was ready to go flying
> today....
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> ________________________________
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
> Sent: January-14-10 10:45 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
>
> Time of Compliance: Before further flight
>
>
> So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than 2
> years.
>
>
> Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
> deeeeep south.
>
> A real pisser in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
>
>
> Ron
>
> VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
>
>
> Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted.
>
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
>
>
> I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldnt find
> them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
> update us all.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I have both and use both. I would highly recommend having both unless you
fly almost 100% of the time on the autopilot. Fuel in-balance, fat pilot ,
pattern work, hood work ........ I use the trim every flight.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
both would appear to be overkill.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>
>
> jrlark wrote:
>>
>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to
Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated
in house, as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>
>
> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want
to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to
build and install.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
You can question the need if you wish. :)
I'll tell you what...the RV-10's tanks are so looooong that they
give a pretty hefty imbalance. Sure, with the AP on you
won't notice it too much, but even just hand flying it around
town, that plane can get very wing-heavy. I would never want
to be without the ability to compensate it. Now, depending
on your loading and everything else, you may only use it on
30-60% of your flights, but when you need it, you'll really
want it. It's easier to build into the wing when the wing is
still on the bench and before you paint the access covers, so
I'd say in my recommendation I'd consider it standard equipment
and just do it. But, if someone really likes to suffer, because
suffering makes them feel more like a man, then skip it for
now and just let that nagging voice in the back of your head
keep talking to you as you fly your 200th hour wishing you'd
have put it in.
Tim
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
> should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
> reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
> have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
> both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build
and install.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Take Tim's advice. It is easy to install and worth every penny. I only have
44 hrs on my Rv-10 and the first 32 were without auto pilot working
Correctly. I was glad I had aileron trim.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
You can question the need if you wish. :)
I'll tell you what...the RV-10's tanks are so looooong that they give a
pretty hefty imbalance. Sure, with the AP on you won't notice it too much,
but even just hand flying it around town, that plane can get very
wing-heavy. I would never want to be without the ability to compensate it.
Now, depending on your loading and everything else, you may only use it on
30-60% of your flights, but when you need it, you'll really want it. It's
easier to build into the wing when the wing is still on the bench and before
you paint the access covers, so I'd say in my recommendation I'd consider it
standard equipment and just do it. But, if someone really likes to suffer,
because suffering makes them feel more like a man, then skip it for now and
just let that nagging voice in the back of your head keep talking to you as
you fly your 200th hour wishing you'd have put it in.
Tim
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
> should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
> reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
> have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
> both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar
>>> to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be
>>> fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you
>> want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is
>> simple to build and install.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I believe you need the aileron trim with an autopilot. I have a TruTrak but
you need to trim the aircraft before engaging the autopilot for two reasons.
When you disengage the aqutopilot an out-of-trim condition will cause abrupt
aircraft movement especially in pitch. Second, again especially in pitch,
the autopilot may "slip" if the out-of-trim condition is too strong. That
built-in slippage is what let's you overpower a runaway autopilot.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet...
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Albert, good points. The aileron trims a "go" from my perspective. A
friend with a T210 Cessna has an Stec55X that will squawk at him if the
trim is out too much (PITA), so I think it's a good idea.
(by the way Albert, nice design on your spring biased rudder trim)
Now my next question, are the Vans deluxe locking fuel caps worth the work
to install? When this aircraft is completed, it may be tied down outside for
a year or so. The catalogue description says they certainly are not a drop
in replacement. That's ok to me as long as the modification is reasonable.
Most of the archive messages seem to indicate they are worth the time and
expense. Again all opinions are welcome.
You guys have no idea how much easier it is to make these decisions with
input from this forum (especially since I'm stuck on the far north tundra of
southern Ontario). Thx again
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
> I believe you need the aileron trim with an autopilot. I have a TruTrak
> but
> you need to trim the aircraft before engaging the autopilot for two
> reasons.
> When you disengage the aqutopilot an out-of-trim condition will cause
> abrupt
> aircraft movement especially in pitch. Second, again especially in pitch,
> the autopilot may "slip" if the out-of-trim condition is too strong. That
> built-in slippage is what let's you overpower a runaway autopilot.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:24 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
>
> I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
> friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
> the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
> it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
> solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
> the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
> aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
> I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
>> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
>> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
>> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
>> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
>> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> jrlark wrote:
>>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>>> kit?
>>>>
>>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>>
>>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Don't leave home with out it!
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet...
Phil
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CA95D4.11672C20]
[cid:image002.jpg(at)01CA95D4.11672C20]
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they in
dicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could s
end it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
| From: | "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil> |
...and it works very well.
neal
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
If you want to save time on the controller, for a cost, Eric at Perihelion
Designs has a nice little unit called the EGPNMSC.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court
as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for
compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet......
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF
and eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information.
Also the time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should
indicate different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that
flying aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In
my case I am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to
ensure complete engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls
for a manual feel of the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet...
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hmmm
What was the response....
Inquiring minds need to know.
..Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: January-15-10 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory.
It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their
parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider changing
is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will
fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the
latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to
photograph them and get them posted later today.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
And the response was?
From: DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF
and eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information.
Also the time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should
indicate different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that
flying aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In
my case I am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to
ensure complete engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls
for a manual feel of the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Photo's are below and the plans are attached....
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
Thanks Jim,
NO pressure there was there?
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281674#281674
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
David,
It appears that Scott took your advice. They were just posted on
vansairforce.net
http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/Section45A.pdf
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
When you are inside of the plane and want to open the door, how do you open the
latch? Do you grab the edge of it. What am I missing here? Oh ya and you are
on fire!
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281682#281682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to al
l
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO54
0
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part
.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM wrote:
> The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
> experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
> required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor t
he
> FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These a
re
> not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
>
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> I wouldn=92t think that posting SB on a website wouldn=92t stand-up in c
ourt
> as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn=92t started for complia
nce.
>
>
> But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
> plans, with the appropriate materials; that=92s a different story.
>
>
> The smart ones are probably those who aren=92t replying to the thread. J
> Cause they still don=92t know about the SB yet=85=85
>
>
> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
>
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
>
> I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
>
>
> "I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
> publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
> will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
> eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also th
e
> time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
> different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
> aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case
I
> am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure comple
te
> engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel
of
> the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder (Michael
> Sausen)
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
>
> David,
>
>
> If you=92re looking for the verbage of the SB, it=92s right here.
>
>
> If you=92re looking for the plans revisions, I haven=92t seen those yet
=85
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> [image: http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg]
>
>
> [image: http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg]
>
>
> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: 10 SB
>
>
> I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB th
at
> they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
> indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, cou
ld
> send it to the list in PDF form.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
Just thinking out loud [Question]
With a hole that big on the outside of the door, I wonder how much water you can
get inside the door after sitting in a good rain or flying in rain.
We work so hard at sealing the doors and now we put a big slot in it with a clear
path from outside to inside. [Shocked]
Let the examination begin [Mr. Green]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281685#281685
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
I was already thinking about that too. Maybe wrapping a piece of weather stripping
around the inside would help without adding too much resistance. The spring
looks a bit wimpy though and any resistance might stop it. Pure speculation
here of course. :)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Photo's are in... Plans too....
Just thinking out loud [Question]
With a hole that big on the outside of the door, I wonder how much water you can
get inside the door after sitting in a good rain or flying in rain.
We work so hard at sealing the doors and now we put a big slot in it with a clear
path from outside to inside. [Shocked]
Let the examination begin [Mr. Green]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281685#281685
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
I'm not too worried. An inventive -10 builder is going to come up with a
mechanism to tie the safety latch to the existing door handle. Until
then, i think a zip tie would look more aesthetically pleasing.
Jae
First order for Skyview parts in.
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> I was already thinking about that too. Maybe wrapping a piece of weather stripping
around the inside would help without adding too much resistance. The
spring looks a bit wimpy though and any resistance might stop it. Pure speculation
here of course. :)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:36 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Photo's are in... Plans too....
>
>
> Just thinking out loud [Question]
> With a hole that big on the outside of the door, I wonder how much water you
can get inside the door after sitting in a good rain or flying in rain.
> We work so hard at sealing the doors and now we put a big slot in it with a clear
path from outside to inside. [Shocked]
> Let the examination begin [Mr. Green]
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281685#281685
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine does.
Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to all
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO540
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Well, I was aware of that rather nifty item. I'd need two
(aileron/rudder trim) so that's $100 + shipping + servos ($28).
I used a Stamp Computer (http://tinyurl.com/yjrv4kg) $54, and the two
servos $28 + shipping and wrote the program (simple basic language). I
have 10 more I/O ports left to do whatever strikes my fancy. I could
use some of the ports to control dimmers, or discrete flap settings or
........
Linn
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> If you want to save time on the controller, for a cost, Eric at Perihelion Designs
has a nice little unit called the EGPNMSC.
>
> http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:24 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
>
> I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
> friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
> the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
> it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
> solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
> the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
> aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
> I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
>> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
>> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
>> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
>> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
>> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> jrlark wrote:
>>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>>> kit?
>>>>
>>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>>
>>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang
the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a
poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory.
It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their
parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider
changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will
fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of
the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try
to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hugo <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
My spy inside Van's just send me the revision for the SB come out yesterday
,will looking more efficient then the parachute of the outside lever of the
previews SB=0AAny way I thinks I will adop this one=0AHugo --- =0A=0A=0AOn
Fri, 1/15/10, Linn Walters wrote:=0A=0A> From:
Linn Walters =0A> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: D
oor safety latch=0A> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0A> Date: Friday, January
tts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>=0A> =0A> I find it rather ludicrous to build an ef
ficient airplane=0A> only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outsi
de of=0A> the door.- IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.=0A> Linn=0A> =0A
erry(at)qwest.net>=0A> > =0A> > Attached are photos of the new door safety lat
ch,=0A> which I think are self explanatory. It is my understanding=0A> that
everyone with a finish kit will have their parts and=0A> drawings by the e
nd of next week. The only thing I would=0A> consider changing is to increas
e the angle between the legs=0A> of the springs that you will fabricate. My
personal=0A> preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the=0A>
latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings,=0A> but will t
ry to photograph them and get them posted later=0A> today.=0A> > =0A> > Jim
Berry=0A> > 40482=0A> > N15JB=0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > Read this
topic online here:=0A> > =0A> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
=281668#281668=0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > Attachments: =0A> > http
://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg=0A> > http://forums.matroni
cs.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg=0A> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img
_0439_172.jpg=0A> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg=0A>
=========================0A
- - - - - - - -=0A> - - - - - - - -Matt=0A> D
===============0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10
builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is
just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function
correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue
it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not
properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I
have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially
the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other
factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the
door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have
been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem.
The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on
the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying
around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand
why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from
fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not
to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught
outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut
the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious
gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If
yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it
will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with
someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to
my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and
having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out
try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the
button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid.
I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand
that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the
warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders
have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't
want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
________________________________
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle
and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at
best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory.
It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their
parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider
changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will
fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of
the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try
to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the
compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the
obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each
particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the
builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization
was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra
device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to
people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their
pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have
heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one
that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors
involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never
fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented
through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The
only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle
and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no
indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so
great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights
come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside
the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door
before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my
experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I
don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that
the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this
perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to
be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
_____
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor
solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | ricksked(at)cox.net |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I'm with Scott on this one. I spent a lot of time on my latchs so that the
pins go thru an after market Metal block and then at least 1/2" thru the fr
ame on both sides of the doors.
The doors would have to REALLY flex before these rods would pull out. Besi
des=2C that is one "fuggly" looking exterior latch! :-)
Date: Fri=2C 15 Jan 2010 14:30:38 -0800
From: scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF=2C I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10
builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is
just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function
correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue
it comes down to people not installing the warning lights=2C and not
properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I
have heard many stories about the doors that have come off=2C especially
the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other
factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the
door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have
been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly=2C the indicator lights
installed=2C it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem.
The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on
the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying
around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand
why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from
fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff=2C check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not
to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught
outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut
the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious
gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If
yours does not=2C take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it
will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with
someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to
my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and
having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out
try to understand that you have to lift the little handle=2C push the
button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid.
I don't want to get flamed here=2C I just want new builders to understand
that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the
warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders
have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign=2C and I don't
want anyone to be scared off. Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri=2C January 15=2C 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety
latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO=2C it's a poor s
olution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch=2C which I think are sel
f explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I wou
ld consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the sprin
gs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger
spring loading of the latch. I don't
have a way to scan the large format drawings=2C but will try to photograph
them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
All valid points, except that aileron trim is no where near as important
as elevator trim. The examples you cite are all for elevator trim. I've
heard the message from Tim and others that aileron trim is worthwhile.
Some autopilots have aileron trim function built in. My Mooney has a
knob on the turn coordinator that I just dial what gives a no turn,
wings level position, and that is a crude Brittain wing leveler from the
'60s.
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> I believe you need the aileron trim with an autopilot. I have a TruTrak but
> you need to trim the aircraft before engaging the autopilot for two reasons.
> When you disengage the aqutopilot an out-of-trim condition will cause abrupt
> aircraft movement especially in pitch. Second, again especially in pitch,
> the autopilot may "slip" if the out-of-trim condition is too strong. That
> built-in slippage is what let's you overpower a runaway autopilot.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:24 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
>
> I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
> friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
> the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
> it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
> solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
> the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
> aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
> I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
>> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
>> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
>> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
>> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
>> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jrlark wrote:
>>>
>>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>>> kit?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>>
>>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Scott;
I have to admit I've been thinking about this SB as well. I was actually
waiting for Tim to chime in and was quite glad to see your response.
Thanks for taking time to give that feedback.
Pascal
From: Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10
builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is
just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function
correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue
it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not
properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I
have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially
the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other
factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the
door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have
been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem.
The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on
the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying
around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why.
They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully
closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught
outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut
the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious
gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If
yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it
will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with
someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to
my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid.
I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand
that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the
warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders
have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't
want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang
the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a
poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are
self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit
will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only
thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle between the
legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference
would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way
to scan the large format drawings, but will try to photograph them and
get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Beings I dont have an outside passenger door handle anyway..............
guess I will not have an outside safety latch on the passenger door eith
er.
Let's get creative with the looks of the outside latch...............thi
nk I will make it look like the arm on a Vegas slot machine. Every time
you pull it down to get in you are taking a gamble OR by getting in and
flyng the RV10 you have hit the Jackpot of all 4 place planes!
Dean
805HL "400 Hours with a goal of 500 by 2011"
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=0OGubPYCYkWM3fYO_vCwuQAA
Jz0315TiJGQRTntSFamdGWtMAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAA
AAA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe
regardless of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to
make the changes per the AD.
P
From: DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine
does. Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to
all aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a
Lycoming IO540 crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any
aircraft that has the exact engine called out, whether experimental or
not, according to FAA. Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA
writes, interprets, enforces and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is
a rubber stamp for the most part. Not disagreeing with your comments
about Service Bulletins, just pointing out that there are many opinions
on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA
for experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft
are required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans
nor the FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further
flight. These are not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in
court as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for
compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the
revised plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread.
J Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF
and eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information.
Also the time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should
indicate different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that
flying aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In
my case I am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to
ensure complete engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls
for a manual feel of the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix
is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I fully agree with Scott and his post. I would add to the reasons the
doors may be opening is poor construction and/or amending the door pin m
easurements to make the pins not protrude out so far and scratch the pai
nt when shut accidently. Look at some of the GAPS in these doors on som
e finished planes and the way the door seal is attached.
These planes are not aerobatic either. Doors made per the plans and flo
wn per the specs will not accidently come open during flight. I am sure
LIABILITY is driving this SB and I am also sure the RV community will e
ngineer a much better fix (if needed) than what is proposed.
My 2 cents to a senseless issue.
DEAN
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=CCww_HTcogGrPjRtmf4FEQAA
Jz0315TiJGQRTntSFamdGWtMAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAA
AAA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
The beauty of being experimental is that we can each decide whether we want to
install the safety latch; although your insurance company might disagree if you
had a door opening incident.
Deems idea of a grab strap would be very easy to incorporate. Since the latch kit
includes an aluminum sheet on both sides of the fiberglass, it would make a
good hard point to mount a handle.
When the door handle is opened, the latch allows the bottom of the door to open
approximately 1/2 to 3/4 inch.
Someone commented that the latch cannot be opened from the inside. Not true, just
lift the latch.
The exterior latch is 1/8 inch thick, and requires very little force to open. It
could probably be smallified top to bottom without compromising strength or
function.
Someone with CNC capabilities could make a much more attractive version of the
latch.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281733#281733
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <ricksked(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
There is no way I'm putting that piece of Frankenstein crap on my aircraft.
Jeeez.WTF is Van's thinking except putting this out to cover their ass. I
think a bungee cord between the two door handles inside would work much
better. Sorry but I'll check the lights, check the doors and continue on. So
far my policy and procedures have worked fine and have proven that too!!
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the
compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the
obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each
particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the
builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization
was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra
device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to
people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their
pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have
heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one
that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors
involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never
fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented
through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The
only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle
and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no
indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so
great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights
come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside
the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door
before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my
experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I
don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that
the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this
perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to
be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
_____
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor
solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0441_836.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0440_915.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0439_172.jpg>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
what does the data plate on your engine say?
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regardless
of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
changes per the AD.
P
From: DLM <mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine does.
Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to all
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO540
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Anyone thinking of integrating the interior aspect of the latch with
the fore/aft movement of the door pin and omit the exterior aspect of
the latch all together?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Suddenly happy my doors aren't quite finished yet
On Jan 15, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are
> self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish
> kit will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The
> only thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle
> between the legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal
> preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I
> don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to
> photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
It does not matter. The AD is against the ECI cylinders installed on an
aircraft. Just as Lycoming has no say in the AD, nor does Cessna or Piper.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, DLM wrote:
> what does the data plate on your engine say?
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
>
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
> cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regardl
ess
> of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
> changes per the AD.
> P
>
> *From:* DLM
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine
> does. Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to
> all aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycomin
g
> IO540 crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft th
at
> has the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according t
o
> FAA. Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets,
> enforces and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for th
e
> most part. Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, ju
st
> pointing out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM wrote:
>
>> The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
>> experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
>> required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor
the
>> FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These
are
>> not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
>>
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> I wouldn=92t think that posting SB on a website wouldn=92t stand-up in
>> court as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn=92t started for
>> compliance.
>>
>>
>>
>> But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
>> plans, with the appropriate materials; that=92s a different story.
>>
>>
>>
>> The smart ones are probably those who aren=92t replying to the thread.
J
>> Cause they still don=92t know about the SB yet=85=85
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
>>
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>>
>>
>> I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
>>
>>
>>
>> "I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
>> publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
>> will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF an
d
>> eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also t
he
>> time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
>> different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
>> aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my cas
e I
>> am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure compl
ete
>> engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual fee
l of
>> the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder (Michael
>> Sausen)
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you=92re looking for the verbage of the SB, it=92s right here.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you=92re looking for the plans revisions, I haven=92t seen those yet
=85
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg]
>>
>>
>> [image: http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>>
>>
>> I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
>> that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they
>> indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, co
uld
>> send it to the list in PDF form.
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Rick, I totally agree with you....=C2- although my Van's idiot lights are
not functioning.=C2- Van's sent out a number of micro switches which wer
e ass backwards.=C2- I tried everything to get them to work, then just ga
ve up on them.=C2- Then Van's sends out a bulletin saying if you received
a specific=C2-part numbered micro switch, let them know and they'd send
=C2-out the correct ones.=C2- Well, in the meantime, my pre-takeoff pro
cedure was, and is, to personally verify that each door is totally closed,
and locked.... pretty simple... I do it EVERYTIME.=C2- After a very short
time, it's a total habit.=C2- That coupled with the fact that I threw aw
ay the Van's=C2-plastic/nylon receivers and replaced them with the billet
ed replacements, leaves me=C2-feeling very confident with my RV10 doors.
My 4cents worth....
Don McDonald=C2-=C2-
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, Rick wrote:
From: Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 4:46 PM
There is no way I=99m putting that piece of Frankenstein crap on my a
ircraft. =C2-JeeezWTF is Van=99s thinking except putting t
his out to cover their ass. I think a bungee cord between the two door hand
les inside would work much better. Sorry but I=99ll check the lights,
check the doors and continue on. So far my policy and procedures have work
ed fine and have proven that too!!
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
=C2-
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the com
pliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the ob
ligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each p
articular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this=C2-is tha
t the builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organiz
ation was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extr
a device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to peo
ple not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pr
e-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have h
eard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one th
at hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved
with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully
closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through pr
oper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installe
d, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only wa
y for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and o
pened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicat
or lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On m
y doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to ha
ve each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the
cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door befor
e I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experiment
al plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the
outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that yo
u have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I d
on't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that t
he doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this percepti
on that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scare
d off.
=C2-
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
=C2-
=C2-
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door.=C2- IMHO, it's a poo
r solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will ha
ve their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would
consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs
that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger sp
ring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format draw
ings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web href="http://forums.ma
tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics
.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==========
=
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
depends on whether there is an identification on the ECI cylinders. I would
tend to consider engine ADs more seriously but the identification is key and
who is going to identify the parts except the person holding a repairman
certificate or an A&P/IA? If there is no ID, the parts cannot be determined
as certified.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
It does not matter. The AD is against the ECI cylinders installed on an
aircraft. Just as Lycoming has no say in the AD, nor does Cessna or Piper.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, DLM wrote:
what does the data plate on your engine say?
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regardless
of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
changes per the AD.
P
From: DLM <mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine does.
Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to all
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO540
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
The big ECI on the valve cover is a big clue. I wouldn't be surprised to se
e
a part number on them as well.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:57 PM, DLM wrote:
> depends on whether there is an identification on the ECI cylinders. I
> would tend to consider engine ADs more seriously but the identification i
s
> key and who is going to identify the parts except the person holding a
> repairman certificate or an A&P/IA? If there is no ID, the parts cannot b
e
> determined as certified.
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 7:14 PM
>
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> It does not matter. The AD is against the ECI cylinders installed on an
> aircraft. Just as Lycoming has no say in the AD, nor does Cessna or Piper
.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, DLM wrote:
>
>> what does the data plate on your engine say?
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
>> cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regard
less
>> of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
>> changes per the AD.
>> P
>>
>> *From:* DLM
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine
>> does. Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to
>> all aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycomi
ng
>> IO540 crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft t
hat
>> has the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according
to
>> FAA. Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets,
>> enforces and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for t
he
>> most part. Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, j
ust
>> pointing out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM wrote:
>>
>>> The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA fo
r
>>> experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
>>> required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor
the
>>> FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These
are
>>> not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>> I wouldn=92t think that posting SB on a website wouldn=92t stand-up i
n
>>> court as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn=92t started for
>>> compliance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revise
d
>>> plans, with the appropriate materials; that=92s a different story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The smart ones are probably those who aren=92t replying to the thread.
J
>>> Cause they still don=92t know about the SB yet=85=85
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
>>> publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45
A
>>> will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF a
nd
>>> eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also
the
>>> time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
>>> different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
>>> aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my ca
se I
>>> am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure comp
lete
>>> engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual fe
el of
>>> the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder (Michae
l
>>> Sausen)
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
>>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>> I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is
.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
>>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you=92re looking for the verbage of the SB, it=92s right here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you=92re looking for the plans revisions, I haven=92t seen those yet
=85
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
>>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
>>> that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they
>>> indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, c
ould
>>> send it to the list in PDF form.
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>>
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Haven't any of you folks thought about hitting the "Post Reply" button instead
of "Quote?" We don't need to see the same stuff over and over again. Sorry for
the rant....
John
--------
#40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon. Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281757#281757
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | doors, trim, questions |
Great timing. Finished my 4th flight today and then find a "grounding SB". I have
the aftermarket billets, the pins go way past the fiberglass, the doors "lock"
nicely, and my warning light system works (they don't go out until the latches
click and they are the "push to test" type). So I will continue to fly
until our community comes to a more settled opinion. In terms of the aileron
trim: 4 flights is not a lot of experience but on today's flight I flew the right
tank down fairly low (to make it easier to recalibrate the floats) and I
had to use the trim to get the wings to stay level hands off. Now a few questions:
My elevator trim works well (both equally neutral and both sides stay that
way at cruise speeds) although my elevator horns are up about 1/4 to 1/2 inch
on each side at 145K, -3 flaps, and level flight. (Looks like Tim's picture
on his site). So I think all that is good, but when the trim is neutral the EFIS
trim indicator is way off the neutral (centered indication). I've gone thru
the set up procedure twice with the same results. Any advice on how to "square
up" the indicator? Even the aileron trim indicator is off a bit but I really
have not looked at it with even weighting (fuel and front passengers). One
last question: Have about 7 hours on the engine (Mattituck with 9:1 pistons,
LightSpeed on the top) and have been anal about the break-in: only 20 minutes
of ground time and always 70-75% except for the 4 landings. OAT between 0 and
30F, CHT's never above 365 and oil temps at 170 on climb out and low 160's at
high cruise. And I am not burning any oil!! And it still looks as clear as
when I first put it in. Should I just shut up or am I missing something? Jay
Rowe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: doors, trim, questions |
Newbie here... but still have ideas.... I would put a blockage of some sort
prior to your scat for the oil cooler... get that oil temp up to 180 to 19
0 range.- Insure that it's burning off any moisture/condensate.- I made
a butterfly valve for the rear of the plenum on mine, and it works great.
- Open all the way, I see numbers like yours, in the low 160's.- but a
little pull on the butterfly valve, 180 to 190.- Other than that, keep fl
ying.- Where are you located?
Don McDonald
Sacramento area
110 hours and counting.
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com wrote:
From: jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com <jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: RV10-List: doors, trim, questions
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 7:14 PM
Great timing.- Finished my 4th flight today and then find a "grounding SB
". I have the aftermarket billets, the pins go way past the fiberglass, the
doors "lock" nicely, and my warning light system works (they don't go out
until the latches click and they are the "push to test" type).- So I will
continue to fly until our community comes to a more settled opinion.- In
terms of the aileron trim:- 4 flights is not a lot of experience but on
today's flight I flew the right tank down fairly low (to make it easier to
recalibrate the floats) and I had to use the trim to get the wings to stay
level hands off. Now a few questions:- My elevator trim works well (both
equally neutral and both sides stay that way at cruise speeds) although my
elevator horns are up about 1/4 to 1/2 inch on each side at 145K, -3 flaps,
and level flight. (Looks like Tim's picture on his site). So I think all t
hat is good, but when the trim is neutral the EFIS trim indicator is way
off the neutral (centered !
indication).- I've gone thru the set up procedure twice with the same res
ults.- Any advice on how to "square up" the indicator? Even the aileron t
rim indicator is off a bit but I really have not looked at it with even wei
ghting (fuel and front passengers).- One last question: Have about 7 hour
s on the engine (Mattituck with 9:1 pistons, LightSpeed on the top) and hav
e been anal about the break-in:- only 20 minutes of ground time and alway
s 70-75% except for the 4 landings. OAT between 0 and 30F, CHT's never abov
e 365 and oil temps at 170 on climb out and low 160's at high cruise.- An
d I am not burning any oil!!- And it still looks as clear as when I first
put it in.- Should I just shut up or am I missing something?---Jay
Rowe
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron McGann" <ronrvbuilder(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I would be really interested in hearing from anyone with a background in
insurance. Yes we are the builder, and only airworthiness bodies may be
able to ground aircraft. But if you intentionally fail to comply with an
instruction from the kit supplier and a door departs in flight, what are the
chances of a successful claim??
Cheers,
Ron
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2010 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the
compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the
obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each
particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the
builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization
was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra
device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to
people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their
pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have
heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one
that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors
involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never
fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented
through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The
only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle
and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no
indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so
great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights
come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside
the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door
before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my
experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I
don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that
the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this
perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to
be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
_____
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor
solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0441_836.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0440_915.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0439_172.jpg>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: doors, trim, questions |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
You may be broken in, but I would go to at least 15-20 hours doing
what you are doing before deciding to change anything, Perhaps even
25.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:14 PM, wrote:
One last question: Have about 7 hours on the engine (Mattituck with
9:1 pistons, LightSpeed on the top) and have been anal about the
break-in: only 20 minutes of ground time and always 70-75% except for
the 4 landings. OAT between 0 and 30F, CHT's never above 365 and oil
temps at 170 on climb out and low 160's at high cruise. And I am not
burning any oil!! And it still looks as clear as when I first put it
in. Should I just shut up or am I missing something? Jay Rowe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latchRe: Door safety latch |
I totally agree with Scott's post. I feel very comfortable with the
doors being closed for similar reasons that Scott posted. I also feel
the door closed lights are a must install. I think I've posted this
before, but because of the various door coming open issues I never let a
passenger close the door. If I have a passenger I stay outside the
airplane until that person is strapped in and then I close their door
from the outside and double checked that it's locked in place.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
sean(at)stephensville.com wrote:
> Mailing list only members enjoy the quoted portion. Each his own.
>
But not 10 million copies of the SB from Vans. [Laughing]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281793#281793
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I for one am disappointed with this design. When I first saw the
description I was hoping the hook was operated by the door handle, and
had motion 90 degrees from what the pictures show. That would have
been a major improvement. Unfortunately, this isn't any better than
the solution I saw at Copperstate of installing a second handle inside
and out, that operated a bottom of door latch.
I'm not clear from the pictures, is the tab on the outside always
straight out, recessed when latched? or what? I sure hope one of our
fine CNC parts suppliers can engineer a better solution. Most of the
ideas that put another arm on the door handle to operate some sort of
bottom latch seem promising, perhaps difficult to make work cleanly.
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:26 AM, orchidman wrote:
>
>
> sean(at)stephensville.com wrote:
>> Mailing list only members enjoy the quoted portion. Each his own.
>>
> But not 10 million copies of the SB from Vans. [Laughing]
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281793#281793
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latchRe: Door safety latch |
NEVER LET THE PASSENGER CLOSE THE DOOR. I owned a Cardinal RG for 29 years
and I let the passenger close the door once. They managed to keep pushing
until they sheared the pin in the handle. result : a grounded aircraft until
I disassembled the door and was able to close and return to base to order a
part from Cessna. If you have a facade in the aircraft that covers the pins
then install the lights. I don't and I manually feel the pins twice (before
taxi and before takeoff). I made that decision after calling another member
of the list whom I asked how did the door come off. His reply was : which
time? He then related that he lost a door without the lights and then again
with the lights. In contrast to the current administration, I want to keep a
little freedom to be responsible for my own actions. Responsibility
ultimately rests with the nut on the stick.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
I woke up with this idea this morning and thought I'd throw some fresh
meat into the lion den and see if I can't start a really big cat fight.
I hope I do. J
The idea is to use a 12v Solenoid Operated Dead Bolt lock. It would be
installed in mid-fuse decks. The bolt will point up and ultimately
penetrate into the base of the door. The bolt operates when 12v is
applied to the solenoid.
With a very tiny bit of wiring logic, the 12v can be routed through a
micro-switch. That switch is used to detect when the interior (or
exterior) handle has rotated X degrees (from fully open) toward the
closed position. I'll use 20 degrees for example.
- Get in and pull the doors down.
- Rotate the door handle to close the main door pins.
- From 0 degrees to 20 degrees the bolt is retracted.
- At 20 degrees the bolt engages to secure the bottom of the
door (before the main pins have even started through the Nylon or
Aluminum blocks).
- The bolt stays engaged until the handle is rotated back and
the switch opens at 20 degrees.
=A7 By having the bolt engage before the pins enter the door frame, it
protects against those who are concerned with bumping the handle
accidently.
A couple of fail-safe modes and emergency points.
- Should you need rescued from someone on the ground, it can be
operated with the regular exterior door latch. They just twist the door
latch and the micro-switch disengages the b
- Should you have a 12v power failure, the bolt will retract
when the power is lost.
- Should you have an accident that rips the wire from the
solenoid, the bolt will retract.
I can't think of a failure mode that would cause a problem assuming you
use a bolt that extends with 12v and retracts with 0v - not the
opposite.
One of my concerns were damaging the door by extending the bolt without
having the door in the correct position. Meaning the bolt would miss
it's hole and it would push up and damage the bottom of the door.
After a little research, I found this lock has a safety circuit in it.
The force of the bolt deployment is really low and if the bolt can't
extend into a recess, the 12v is removed. Saving the switch and any
damage that could occur. Keep in mind it's designed to deploy into a
female recess and then the bolt is designed to operate in shear. The
bolt isn't designed to punch holes in wooden door frames - or our RV-10
doors.
Okay, now that I've shaken this fresh chicken in front of ALL the lions,
have at it. I've got a Houston RV builders group lunch to go to.... J
http://tinyurl.com/ybktr2s
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Kelly,
The tab on the outside moves up and down in the slot, but does not retract at any
time. The slot can be made smaller in both dimensions than as shown in Van's
pictures. Mine is just big enough to get the job done.
If you want a prettier safety latch, look at the rear door latch on the new Diamond
DA40.
Guys, the SB threads have been great. I have not seen such rancor since primer
wars.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281813#281813
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Luis Rodriguez <luis(at)cristabelle.net> |
How about VANS redesigning the door too make the doorsafer tobegin
with. If more doors fall off with this added latch (hypotheticaly),
what's next more SBs andmore "add-on" hardware? Anyone should be able
to lock a door! Time to redesign it!
Sent from my iPod
On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:24 PM, "Jim Berry" wrote:
>
> Kelly,
>
> The tab on the outside moves up and down in the slot, but does not
> retract at any time. The slot can be made smaller in both dimensions
> than as shown in Van's pictures. Mine is just big enough to get the
> job done.
>
> If you want a prettier safety latch, look at the rear door latch on
> the new Diamond DA40.
>
> Guys, the SB threads have been great. I have not seen such rancor
> since primer wars.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281813#281813
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
Luis;
No offense but the doors are built by the builder themselves. Many have
already made their own mods to hinges, the doors themselves, etc to the
doors and with proper planning (confirm passengers know how to close the
door) there really isn't an issue with the doors. The problem is the plastic
that Vans gives as hinges are simply not the right solution, the doors
naturally have an issue with the rear not closing correctly as the door is
pulled from the front more than the rear.
When you get to this point you'll know that the hinges are the first thing
that Vans should have modified.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Luis Rodriguez" <luis(at)cristabelle.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: 10 SB
>
> How about VANS redesigning the door too make the doorsafer tobegin with.
> If more doors fall off with this added latch (hypotheticaly), what's next
> more SBs andmore "add-on" hardware? Anyone should be able to lock a
> door! Time to redesign it!
>
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:24 PM, "Jim Berry" wrote:
>
>>
>> Kelly,
>>
>> The tab on the outside moves up and down in the slot, but does not
>> retract at any time. The slot can be made smaller in both dimensions
>> than as shown in Van's pictures. Mine is just big enough to get the job
>> done.
>>
>> If you want a prettier safety latch, look at the rear door latch on the
>> new Diamond DA40.
>>
>> Guys, the SB threads have been great. I have not seen such rancor since
>> primer wars.
>>
>> Jim Berry
>> 40482
>> N15JB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281813#281813
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> |
I suggest that all RV-10 builders and flyers with serial numbers write Van's at
info(at)vansaircraft.com
I have done the same and have asked Van's to retract the Service Bulletin and offer
the latch as an additional and optional latch just as the indicator lights
were offered.
I want to summarize what I have heard here.
Issues with the door will arise if:
-Poor door construction causing a bow during flight (Construction error) (Fix:
Re-build door or add Van's center latch)
-Pins are not inserted far enough into the aluminum frame (Construction error)
(Fix: Re-build pins to extend into aluminum frame)
-Door handle interlock is not engaged (Construction error and/or pilot error) (Fix:
Ensure handles are locked before flight, possible rebuild of interlock)
-Door pins were locked outside of cabin (Pilot error)(Fix: Add door check to checklist)
I am fine with Van's offering this as an optional kit but when they say on the
service bulletin that it is mandatory, I have a problem.
This is 100% different from the previous SB where we added stiffeners to the vertical
stabilizer and empenage.
I want everyone to fly safe and keep our insurance as low as possible, I don't
see this as the solution though.
We need to take personal responsibility to build to the highest quality and use
our checklists thoroughly.
Any system that is put into place (such as our checklists) is never fixed with
more protection devices, system only work and are improved through training and
discipline.
This solution is like adding a fixed gear to the bottom of a retractable landing
gear aircraft. It will be there just in case you don't put the gear down.
The warnings lights and center latch should be optional as 100% safe flight can
be accomplished with the stock system. I do feel there are may pilots flying
safely without even the lights because of their training and checklist discipline.
The experimental category will always have construction issues and must
accept personal responsibility for that and not burden the whole fleet with the
quality shortcomings of the few.
I want everyone to fly safe, have fun and explore this world with their planes
and I appreciate Van's offering a system that solves a problem that a few of RV-10's
have with the doors bowing as a total replacement of the door is very expensive.
Again, please write Van's and ask for the removal of this SB and make it optional.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
________________________________
From: Jim Berry <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 11:24:03 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: 10 SB
Kelly,
The tab on the outside moves up and down in the slot, but does not retract at any
time. The slot can be made smaller in both dimensions than as shown in Van's
pictures. Mine is just big enough to get the job done.
If you want a prettier safety latch, look at the rear door latch on the new Diamond
DA40.
Guys, the SB threads have been great. I have not seen such rancor since primer
wars.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281813#281813
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
You mean you don't want a belt, suspenders, elasticized waist and special
Velcro adhesive? I measured my pins this morning and the OD of the pins
range from .436 to .438; theoretically they should be .4375. In 225 hours
they may have worn 15/10000 of an inch; I probably will replace them at
engine overhaul. Otherwise after door closure, I just touch each of them
twice before each departure.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Luis Rodriguez
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: 10 SB
How about VANS redesigning the door too make the doorsafer tobegin with. If
more doors fall off with this added latch (hypotheticaly), what's next more
SBs andmore "add-on" hardware? Anyone should be able to lock a door! Time
to redesign it!
Sent from my iPod
On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:24 PM, "Jim Berry" wrote:
>
> Kelly,
>
> The tab on the outside moves up and down in the slot, but does not
> retract at any time. The slot can be made smaller in both dimensions
> than as shown in Van's pictures. Mine is just big enough to get the
> job done.
>
> If you want a prettier safety latch, look at the rear door latch on
> the new Diamond DA40.
>
> Guys, the SB threads have been great. I have not seen such rancor
> since primer wars.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281813#281813
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
once again Scott I agree with your suggestion. Thinking through the
letter and it will go out today, this isn't a solution it's a bandaid.
With the negative feedback seen it is obvious most of us have no
intention of doing this mod so why force me as a builder to "have to".
From: Scott Schmidt
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: 10 SB
I suggest that all RV-10 builders and flyers with serial numbers write
Van's at info(at)vansaircraft.com
I have done the same and have asked Van's to retract the Service
Bulletin and offer the latch as an additional and optional latch just as
the indicator lights were offered.
I want to summarize what I have heard here.
Issues with the door will arise if:
-Poor door construction causing a bow during flight (Construction error)
(Fix: Re-build door or add Van's center latch)
-Pins are not inserted far enough into the aluminum frame (Construction
error) (Fix: Re-build pins to extend into aluminum frame)
-Door handle interlock is not engaged (Construction error and/or pilot
error) (Fix: Ensure handles are locked before flight, possible rebuild
of interlock)
-Door pins were locked outside of cabin (Pilot error)(Fix: Add door
check to checklist)
I am fine with Van's offering this as an optional kit but when they say
on the service bulletin that it is mandatory, I have a problem.
This is 100% different from the previous SB where we added stiffeners to
the vertical stabilizer and empenage.
I want everyone to fly safe and keep our insurance as low as possible, I
don't see this as the solution though.
We need to take personal responsibility to build to the highest quality
and use our checklists thoroughly.
Any system that is put into place (such as our checklists) is never
fixed with more protection devices, system only work and are improved
through training and discipline.
This solution is like adding a fixed gear to the bottom of a retractable
landing gear aircraft. It will be there just in case you don't put the
gear down.
The warnings lights and center latch should be optional as 100% safe
flight can be accomplished with the stock system. I do feel there are
may pilots flying safely without even the lights because of their
training and checklist discipline. The experimental category will
always have construction issues and must accept personal responsibility
for that and not burden the whole fleet with the quality shortcomings of
the few.
I want everyone to fly safe, have fun and explore this world with their
planes and I appreciate Van's offering a system that solves a problem
that a few of RV-10's have with the doors bowing as a total replacement
of the door is very expensive.
Again, please write Van's and ask for the removal of this SB and make it
optional.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: Jim Berry <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 11:24:03 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: 10 SB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Door Latch Ideas |
| From: | "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
Here is a couple of ideas for all the engineers out there that want to change the
latch. After sitting in Scotts' airplane I came to the conclusion it wasn't
needed but I personally think this is way better than the S.B. or B.S?
I know there are tons of versions of this idea it's just to keep everyone thinking
of a better solution if it's going to be mandatory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqOtd-lEQfU
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281828#281828
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Thanks for publishing the 45A PDF. I have no problem with offering this as
an option but some builders may think that they must do this before further
flight. As I have suggested in the past, the fixed length of your pins is
too short. The pins may not fully (full circumference) engage the metal door
frames, depending on where the latch mechanism is located in the latch box.
The pins should be lengthened by 1/2 inch and the user should cut and bevel
as required to fully engage the pins when closing. It seems to me that the
heart of the closing problem is the inattention of the PIC complicated by
the interior facade to make this airplane into a Cirrus/Columbia look alike.
This mod along with the lights seem to be a belt, suspenders, elasticized
waist band and special Velcro adhesive. I realize there must be some
litigation concerns but ultimate responsibility is the Manufacturer (not
Vans) and the PIC. There have been no fatalities and only one significant
airframe damage due to a departing door (which may have had structural
damage earlier), therefore, I believe, a less strident approach is
necessary.
_____
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: 10 SB
I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Scott,
I'm just now catching up on this but agree with all points below and have a
lready sent an email to Van's. I would also add (and did in my email) that
many builders have also added door pin guides (IFLYRV10.com) which have co
nical receivers for the pins to address the potential issue of misalignment
when the door is initially closed. Further, these increase the surface ar
ea that the pins contact which prevents the wallowing out of the hole in th
e door frame that some have experienced. Even with these guides installed
though, the pins should extend through the actual door frame.
My point was also that the SB is fine, just don't make it mandatory.
Bob
N442PM (flying with no door latching issues)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: 10 SB
I suggest that all RV-10 builders and flyers with serial numbers write Van'
s at info(at)vansaircraft.com
I have done the same and have asked Van's to retract the Service Bulletin a
nd offer the latch as an additional and optional latch just as the indicato
r lights were offered.
I want to summarize what I have heard here.
Issues with the door will arise if:
-Poor door construction causing a bow during flight (Construction error) (F
ix: Re-build door or add Van's center latch)
-Pins are not inserted far enough into the aluminum frame (Construction err
or) (Fix: Re-build pins to extend into aluminum frame)
-Door handle interlock is not engaged (Construction error and/or pilot erro
r) (Fix: Ensure handles are locked before flight, possible rebuild of inter
lock)
-Door pins were locked outside of cabin (Pilot error)(Fix: Add door check t
o checklist)
I am fine with Van's offering this as an optional kit but when they say on
the service bulletin that it is mandatory, I have a problem.
This is 100% different from the previous SB where we added stiffeners to th
e vertical stabilizer and empenage.
I want everyone to fly safe and keep our insurance as low as possible, I do
n't see this as the solution though.
We need to take personal responsibility to build to the highest quality and
use our checklists thoroughly.
Any system that is put into place (such as our checklists) is never fixed w
ith more protection devices, system only work and are improved through trai
ning and discipline.
This solution is like adding a fixed gear to the bottom of a retractable la
nding gear aircraft. It will be there just in case you don't put the gear d
own.
The warnings lights and center latch should be optional as 100% safe flight
can be accomplished with the stock system. I do feel there are may pilots
flying safely without even the lights because of their training and checkl
ist discipline. The experimental category will always have construction is
sues and must accept personal responsibility for that and not burden the wh
ole fleet with the quality shortcomings of the few.
I want everyone to fly safe, have fun and explore this world with their pla
nes and I appreciate Van's offering a system that solves a problem that a f
ew of RV-10's have with the doors bowing as a total replacement of the door
is very expensive.
Again, please write Van's and ask for the removal of this SB and make it op
tional.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
Interesting idea and similar to something else I was thinking about. The
biggest problem would be a rather strong electromagnet in the vicinity of
a whole bunch of sensitive avionics.
michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea
I woke up with this idea this morning and thought I'd throw some fresh meat
into the lion den and see if I can't start a really big cat fight. I hope
I do. :)
The idea is to use a 12v Solenoid Operated Dead Bolt lock. It would be in
stalled in mid-fuse decks. The bolt will point up and ultimately penetrate
into the base of the door. The bolt operates when 12v is applied to the s
olenoid.
With a very tiny bit of wiring logic, the 12v can be routed through a micr
o-switch. That switch is used to detect when the interior (or exterior) ha
ndle has rotated X degrees (from fully open) toward the closed position.
I'll use 20 degrees for example.
- Get in and pull the doors down.
- Rotate the door handle to close the main door pins.
- From 0 degrees to 20 degrees the bolt is retracted.
- At 20 degrees the bolt engages to secure the bottom of the door
(before the main pins have even started through the Nylon or Aluminum block
s).
- The bolt stays engaged until the handle is rotated back and the
switch opens at 20 degrees.
=A7 By having the bolt engage before the pins enter the door frame, it pro
tects against those who are concerned with bumping the handle accidently.
A couple of fail-safe modes and emergency points.
- Should you need rescued from someone on the ground, it can be op
erated with the regular exterior door latch. They just twist the door latc
h and the micro-switch disengages the b
- Should you have a 12v power failure, the bolt will retract when
the power is lost.
- Should you have an accident that rips the wire from the solenoid
, the bolt will retract.
I can't think of a failure mode that would cause a problem assuming you use
a bolt that extends with 12v and retracts with 0v - not the opposite.
One of my concerns were damaging the door by extending the bolt without hav
ing the door in the correct position. Meaning the bolt would miss it's hol
e and it would push up and damage the bottom of the door.
After a little research, I found this lock has a safety circuit in it. The
force of the bolt deployment is really low and if the bolt can't extend i
nto a recess, the 12v is removed. Saving the switch and any damage that co
uld occur. Keep in mind it's designed to deploy into a female recess and t
hen the bolt is designed to operate in shear. The bolt isn't designed to p
unch holes in wooden door frames - or our RV-10 doors.
Okay, now that I've shaken this fresh chicken in front of ALL the lions, ha
ve at it. I've got a Houston RV builders group lunch to go to.... :)
http://tinyurl.com/ybktr2s
[cid:image001.png(at)01CA96B9.3E71C500]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
| From: | "Ron B." <cfxoa(at)klis.com> |
What about getting out after an incident and power is not available, like fire?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281835#281835
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Grimstad" <Grimsonco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Quick Build Wing Kit |
Complete quick build wing kit For Sale. Delivery options available.
Inventory complete without stall warning system.
Includes wing storage cart on casters.
Paul Grimstad,
Portland, Or.
503-849-2123
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
No power = A retracted bolt.
Anytime power is removed (Electrical System Failure, Broken Wire, Popped
Fuse, Damaged Switch, etc...) the bolt will retract and allow you to
operate the door normally.
BTW: Michael, that's a good thought on the electromagnetic aspect.
Definitely something to think about.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron B. [mailto:cfxoa(at)klis.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea
What about getting out after an incident and power is not available,
like fire?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281835#281835
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
Maybe just shielding the solenoid with Mu Metal: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/magneticcompassshield.php? This is used in a variety of applications like test equipment where you need to contain electromagnetic fields from sensitive circuitry. Most EFIS systems use remote magnetometers so the real issue would be an old school compass. The vertical card variety are more sensitive than the fluid filled variety.
Bob
N442PM (flying)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea
No power = A retracted bolt.
Anytime power is removed (Electrical System Failure, Broken Wire, Popped
Fuse, Damaged Switch, etc...) the bolt will retract and allow you to
operate the door normally.
BTW: Michael, that's a good thought on the electromagnetic aspect.
Definitely something to think about.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron B. [mailto:cfxoa(at)klis.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea
What about getting out after an incident and power is not available,
like fire?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281835#281835
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
| From: | "Ron B." <cfxoa(at)klis.com> |
So your saying that when the power is removed the bolt/pin retracts? If so what
about an in flight power failure and the aft door pin happens to be out of place?
I know what if, what if, but that is what we are trying to protect ourselves
from.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281848#281848
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Well, you'd probably lose your door. :)
By the time we get to compounding what-if's, I'd take any of those bets.
Especially when they're both remote possibilities.
I'm not an odds maker or statistician, but I'd bet those are some pretty
long odds. My wife has a PhD minor is statistics, maybe we can ask
her... :)
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron B. [mailto:cfxoa(at)klis.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 5:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea
So your saying that when the power is removed the bolt/pin retracts? If
so what about an in flight power failure and the aft door pin happens to
be out of place? I know what if, what if, but that is what we are trying
to protect ourselves from.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281848#281848
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MARCUS COOPER <coop85(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea |
One question, anyone have any dimensions on the lock?-
-
One variation, I wonder if installing it along the bottom of the door would
solve door bulge issues in addition to the extra security in keeping the d
oor closed.
--- On Sat, 1/16/10, Ron B. wrote:
From: Ron B. <cfxoa(at)klis.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fresh Meat: New Door Idea
Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 6:17 PM
So your saying that when the power is removed the bolt/pin retracts? If so
what about an in flight power failure and the aft door pin happens to be ou
t of place? I know what if, what if, but that is what we are trying to prot
ect ourselves from.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281848#281848
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billy & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Wing skin question |
Page 16-2 step 5. Wing skin joint detail. I kinda understand what it's
asking me to do but does anybody have any pics of exactly what it wants.
How is the best way to accomplish this job?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SB 10, VERY IMPORTANT! |
I said this a long time ago. Perhaps this is a known=2C but until the build
ing instructions explicitly say to notch out both side of the door gear box
=2C there is no way to make the pin length long enough to get the travel di
stance which is necessary for safe door latching. The pictures I shared ear
lier in the day showed my pins 1/4"-1/2" PAST THE EXTRA 1/8" ALUMINUM PLATE
WHICH IS SECURED TO THE DOOR FRAME. Subtract the thichness of this plate a
nd the pin would be almost 3/4" past the aluminum door frame. Also=2C BY HA
VING THE PIN TRAVEL SO LARGE=2C THERE IS NO WAY THE INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE CO
ULD BE IN THE CLOSED POSITION AND THE DOOR NOT COMPLETELY OUT OF WACK IF TH
E PINS WERE NOT IN THEIR RECEIVERS.
The plastic guide blocks are only guides and they are plastic so they don't
damage the points on the pins. They were never intended for structural use
.
Please study the photos which show how to increase the travel of the pins.
Not everyone has done this and for those that have=2C sorry to bore you.
Also=2C if one builds the cabin top return so that it sits flush with the i
nterior of the door=2C there is no guessing that the door is closed. If you
look down and only see the Van's door seals=2C how do you know????
No 4' X 8' plywood needed
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January 13, 2010 - January 16, 2010
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-fw