RV10-Archive.digest.vol-gm

May 06, 2010 - May 24, 2010



      >> Matt
      >>
      >>
      >> At 11:04 AM 5/6/2010  Thursday, you wrote:
      >>   
      >>>
      >>> Did I see that right?  3 EFIS screens, a VP-200, and a single COM radio?
      >>>
      >>> Jesse Saint
      >>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
      >>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
      >>> Cell: 352-427-0285
      >>> Fax: 815-377-3694
      >>>
      >>>     
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
      >> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
      >> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>   
      >
      >
      
      
      Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
      925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
      http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos!
Date: May 06, 2010
You just press the com button while it is in comm mod and the "S" changes to an "M". Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos! How do you configure the SL-30 to monitor on the standby frequency? Matt At 07:53 PM 5/6/2010 Thursday, you wrote: > >Well, at least the SL-30 allows you to monitor two frequencies at once. The >frequency in the active window has priority, but you can monitor the freq in >the standby window at the same time. I use that feature all the time after >I land at Ogden. A lot of time only one controller is working and after >landing they give you taxi directions and request you monitor ground....all >the real action is happening on the tower frequency...... > >Rene' >801-721-6080 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Morrison >Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:21 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos! > > >Matt, > >Congratulations on your first flight. The plane looks great and your >have done an incredible job of detailing the construction process. I'm >sure it will be a great asset for other -8 builders, like myself. > >Per Jesse's comment, the only thing that you may find desirable in the >future is a second COM radio. Not from a reliability standpoint but it >terms of situational awareness. I am currently flying a -4 with a very >basic VFR panel (496, 1 COM, steam gauges, wing leveler) and the only >thing I really feel is missing is another radio. There are so many times >that I wish I could be monitoring another frequency (or contacting FSS) >while dealing with ATC. Its a constant issue and adding another radio & >simple audio panel is at the top of my to do list. > >Again, great job on the -8. > >Doug Morrison >RV-4 N818WW >RV-8 N666NJ (Panel / FWF) > > >Matt Dralle wrote: >> >> Real men don't need a radio to fly! An spare EFIS, on the other hand, >maybe... >> >> Do you see a place for another COM on my panel? >> >> :-) >> >> Matt >> >> >> At 11:04 AM 5/6/2010 Thursday, you wrote: >> >>> >>> Did I see that right? 3 EFIS screens, a VP-200, and a single COM radio? >>> >>> Jesse Saint >>> Saint Aviation, Inc. >>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >>> Cell: 352-427-0285 >>> Fax: 815-377-3694 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email >> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos!
Date: May 06, 2010
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf See page 9. I have never tried it with the nav feq..... There are a lot of features in the SL30 that I have not explored......it is a great radio. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos! How do you configure the SL-30 to monitor on the standby frequency? Matt At 07:53 PM 5/6/2010 Thursday, you wrote: > >Well, at least the SL-30 allows you to monitor two frequencies at once. The >frequency in the active window has priority, but you can monitor the freq in >the standby window at the same time. I use that feature all the time after >I land at Ogden. A lot of time only one controller is working and after >landing they give you taxi directions and request you monitor ground....all >the real action is happening on the tower frequency...... > >Rene' >801-721-6080 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Morrison >Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:21 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos! > > >Matt, > >Congratulations on your first flight. The plane looks great and your >have done an incredible job of detailing the construction process. I'm >sure it will be a great asset for other -8 builders, like myself. > >Per Jesse's comment, the only thing that you may find desirable in the >future is a second COM radio. Not from a reliability standpoint but it >terms of situational awareness. I am currently flying a -4 with a very >basic VFR panel (496, 1 COM, steam gauges, wing leveler) and the only >thing I really feel is missing is another radio. There are so many times >that I wish I could be monitoring another frequency (or contacting FSS) >while dealing with ATC. Its a constant issue and adding another radio & >simple audio panel is at the top of my to do list. > >Again, great job on the -8. > >Doug Morrison >RV-4 N818WW >RV-8 N666NJ (Panel / FWF) > > >Matt Dralle wrote: >> >> Real men don't need a radio to fly! An spare EFIS, on the other hand, >maybe... >> >> Do you see a place for another COM on my panel? >> >> :-) >> >> Matt >> >> >> At 11:04 AM 5/6/2010 Thursday, you wrote: >> >>> >>> Did I see that right? 3 EFIS screens, a VP-200, and a single COM radio? >>> >>> Jesse Saint >>> Saint Aviation, Inc. >>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >>> Cell: 352-427-0285 >>> Fax: 815-377-3694 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email >> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT You think you are having a bad day?
From: "msausen" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: May 07, 2010
Wait, who's on first?!? LMAO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297018#297018 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos!
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: May 07, 2010
Push the COM button and the S next to the standby freq changes to an M. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On May 6, 2010, at 11:04 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > How do you configure the SL-30 to monitor on the standby frequency? > > Matt > > > At 07:53 PM 5/6/2010 Thursday, you wrote: >> >> Well, at least the SL-30 allows you to monitor two frequencies at once. The >> frequency in the active window has priority, but you can monitor the freq in >> the standby window at the same time. I use that feature all the time after >> I land at Ogden. A lot of time only one controller is working and after >> landing they give you taxi directions and request you monitor ground....all >> the real action is happening on the tower frequency...... >> >> Rene' >> 801-721-6080 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Morrison >> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:21 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos! >> >> >> Matt, >> >> Congratulations on your first flight. The plane looks great and your >> have done an incredible job of detailing the construction process. I'm >> sure it will be a great asset for other -8 builders, like myself. >> >> Per Jesse's comment, the only thing that you may find desirable in the >> future is a second COM radio. Not from a reliability standpoint but it >> terms of situational awareness. I am currently flying a -4 with a very >> basic VFR panel (496, 1 COM, steam gauges, wing leveler) and the only >> thing I really feel is missing is another radio. There are so many times >> that I wish I could be monitoring another frequency (or contacting FSS) >> while dealing with ATC. Its a constant issue and adding another radio & >> simple audio panel is at the top of my to do list. >> >> Again, great job on the -8. >> >> Doug Morrison >> RV-4 N818WW >> RV-8 N666NJ (Panel / FWF) >> >> >> >> Matt Dralle wrote: >>> >>> Real men don't need a radio to fly! An spare EFIS, on the other hand, >> maybe... >>> >>> Do you see a place for another COM on my panel? >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> At 11:04 AM 5/6/2010 Thursday, you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Did I see that right? 3 EFIS screens, a VP-200, and a single COM radio? >>>> >>>> Jesse Saint >>>> Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >>>> Cell: 352-427-0285 >>>> Fax: 815-377-3694 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >>> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email >>> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Fairing Tip
From: rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Date: May 07, 2010
Good idea Pete where did you get the laser idea ....:) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Peter James" <RVPilot(at)mchsi.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 21:52:29 Subject: RV10-List: Gear Leg Fairing Tip This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2010
Subject: Re: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos!
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
I only have one pair of ears, and whether the info is coming from standby monitor or 2nd radio, it is difficult to focus on second frequency if 1st is busy. I don't see how 2nd radio is any better in that situation, but haven't tried the SL30 yet, so maybe I am missing something. Personally, I'd rather have the autopilot than the 2nd radio, if I had to make the choice. Of course a com only can be had for around $1000 these days, so might as well put one in if you have space. I am thinking how to avoid the overkill of GNS430 and SL30, which essentially lets you listen to 3 frequencies and have 2 VORs or ILS's. The SL40 eliminates the 2nd VOR, which is okay as long as GPS is functioning, but puts all your nav in one box. Perhaps GNS420 and SL30 would be better combo, but is more expensive than 430 and SL40. Almost as hard as choosing EFIS, when Dynon, GRT and AFS are so close, but each has unique positives the others don't, and you can't quite have it all, without going up budget to multiple brands with more complexity. On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > Requirements are not what I'm talking about. I agree if you're going with one COM then the SL-40/30 would be the one to go with, although I have noticed that the standby frequency is not very useful when the primary is ATC, especially when it's in fairly busy airspace. Unless it's a dead day of flying, with one COM, I would have to ask to change frequency to listen to ATIS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: May 07, 2010
Subject: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos!
One time it's nice to be able to monitor a second freq is enroute 121.5 or a couple smaller unicoms or multicoms in remote areas. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:29 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos! I only have one pair of ears, and whether the info is coming from standby monitor or 2nd radio, it is difficult to focus on second frequency if 1st is busy. I don't see how 2nd radio is any better in that situation, but haven't tried the SL30 yet, so maybe I am missing something. Personally, I'd rather have the autopilot than the 2nd radio, if I had to make the choice. Of course a com only can be had for around $1000 these days, so might as well put one in if you have space. I am thinking how to avoid the overkill of GNS430 and SL30, which essentially lets you listen to 3 frequencies and have 2 VORs or ILS's. The SL40 eliminates the 2nd VOR, which is okay as long as GPS is functioning, but puts all your nav in one box. Perhaps GNS420 and SL30 would be better combo, but is more expensive than 430 and SL40. Almost as hard as choosing EFIS, when Dynon, GRT and AFS are so close, but each has unique positives the others don't, and you can't quite have it all, without going up budget to multiple brands with more complexity. On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > Requirements are not what I'm talking about. I agree if you're going with one COM then the SL-40/30 would be the one to go with, although I have noticed that the standby frequency is not very useful when the primary is ATC, especially when it's in fairly busy airspace. Unless it's a dead day of flying, with one COM, I would have to ask to change frequency to listen to ATIS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: RV-8 N998RV First Flight - Pilot Report And Photos!
Date: May 07, 2010
If your com panel allows, splitting the 2 radios between pilot and copilot is a nice feature and shares the workload or maybe just gives the copilot something to do. Albert Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ -----Original Message----- One time it's nice to be able to monitor a second freq is enroute 121.5 or a couple smaller unicoms or multicoms in remote areas. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: May 07, 2010
With 2 radios you can adjust volumes to listen to one more carefully than the other, for example, if you are listening to an ATIS frequency, you can turn down the center freq a little and up the ATIS frequency, while still able to hopefully catch your N-number if they call you, but you don't have to ask permission to leave the freq that way. With one radio, to actually be able to listen to an ATIS, you need to make it primary so the primary doesn't squelch it. If you are tuning to an ATIS earlier than necessary to see if it is within range, then that on the standby frequency would work perfectly because it will receive during any break on the primary frequency so you know that it is within range. A GNS-430 and SL-40, IMHO, is a good combination. I would certainly recommend a second GPS receiver somewhere, either with the Dynon SkyView, the AFS or the GRT, or one of the many handhelds available. It is not certified for IFR, but if you were IFR and lost your GNS-430, then at least you can use the situational awareness from the backup(s) to stay alive, even though it's not certified. I know there are procedures for COM failure, but there are so many better options, IMHO, if you have a second COM. I like having a second NAV as well, but very few people that I know who are flying with a GNS ever even tune a NAV unless they are just practicing, or enroute just as backup. Maybe we're the minority. Poll Question 1: For those on the list that have both, how many actually use a NAV radio for navigation other than to practice (or for an ILS approach, which a lot of the GPSes will overlay a simulation for now). Poll Question 2: Rate 2nd GPS Receiver, 2nd COM Radio, 2nd NAV Radio and Auto Pilot in order of must-have for both VFR and IFR. My answer to Q2 for VFR is Auto Pilot, GPS, COM then NAV (with NAV as a far last place) My answer for IFR is GPS, Auto Pilot & COM tied and then NAV (with NAV as a far last place) Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On May 7, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I only have one pair of ears, and whether the info is coming from > standby monitor or 2nd radio, it is difficult to focus on second > frequency if 1st is busy. > I don't see how 2nd radio is any better in that situation, but haven't > tried the SL30 yet, so maybe I am missing something. Personally, I'd > rather have the autopilot than the 2nd radio, if I had to make the > choice. Of course a com only can be had for around $1000 these days, > so might as well put one in if you have space. > > I am thinking how to avoid the overkill of GNS430 and SL30, which > essentially lets you listen to 3 frequencies and have 2 VORs or ILS's. > The SL40 eliminates the 2nd VOR, which is okay as long as GPS is > functioning, but puts all your nav in one box. Perhaps GNS420 and SL30 > would be better combo, but is more expensive than 430 and SL40. > Almost as hard as choosing EFIS, when Dynon, GRT and AFS are so close, > but each has unique positives the others don't, and you can't quite > have it all, without going up budget to multiple brands with more > complexity. > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: >> >> Requirements are not what I'm talking about. I agree if you're going with one COM then the SL-40/30 would be the one to go with, although I have noticed that the standby frequency is not very useful when the primary is ATC, especially when it's in fairly busy airspace. Unless it's a dead day of flying, with one COM, I would have to ask to change frequency to listen to ATIS. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation
Date: May 07, 2010
1. Only practice 2. VFR Autopilot, second GPS, second comm, second nav 3. IFR Second GPS, Autopilot, second comm, second nav Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: RV10-List: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation With 2 radios you can adjust volumes to listen to one more carefully than the other, for example, if you are listening to an ATIS frequency, you can turn down the center freq a little and up the ATIS frequency, while still able to hopefully catch your N-number if they call you, but you don't have to ask permission to leave the freq that way. With one radio, to actually be able to listen to an ATIS, you need to make it primary so the primary doesn't squelch it. If you are tuning to an ATIS earlier than necessary to see if it is within range, then that on the standby frequency would work perfectly because it will receive during any break on the primary frequency so you know that it is within range. A GNS-430 and SL-40, IMHO, is a good combination. I would certainly recommend a second GPS receiver somewhere, either with the Dynon SkyView, the AFS or the GRT, or one of the many handhelds available. It is not certified for IFR, but if you were IFR and lost your GNS-430, then at least you can use the situational awareness from the backup(s) to stay alive, even though it's not certified. I know there are procedures for COM failure, but there are so many better options, IMHO, if you have a second COM. I like having a second NAV as well, but very few people that I know who are flying with a GNS ever even tune a NAV unless they are just practicing, or enroute just as backup. Maybe we're the minority. Poll Question 1: For those on the list that have both, how many actually use a NAV radio for navigation other than to practice (or for an ILS approach, which a lot of the GPSes will overlay a simulation for now). Poll Question 2: Rate 2nd GPS Receiver, 2nd COM Radio, 2nd NAV Radio and Auto Pilot in order of must-have for both VFR and IFR. My answer to Q2 for VFR is Auto Pilot, GPS, COM then NAV (with NAV as a far last place) My answer for IFR is GPS, Auto Pilot & COM tied and then NAV (with NAV as a far last place) Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On May 7, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I only have one pair of ears, and whether the info is coming from > standby monitor or 2nd radio, it is difficult to focus on second > frequency if 1st is busy. > I don't see how 2nd radio is any better in that situation, but haven't > tried the SL30 yet, so maybe I am missing something. Personally, I'd > rather have the autopilot than the 2nd radio, if I had to make the > choice. Of course a com only can be had for around $1000 these days, > so might as well put one in if you have space. > > I am thinking how to avoid the overkill of GNS430 and SL30, which > essentially lets you listen to 3 frequencies and have 2 VORs or ILS's. > The SL40 eliminates the 2nd VOR, which is okay as long as GPS is > functioning, but puts all your nav in one box. Perhaps GNS420 and SL30 > would be better combo, but is more expensive than 430 and SL40. > Almost as hard as choosing EFIS, when Dynon, GRT and AFS are so close, > but each has unique positives the others don't, and you can't quite > have it all, without going up budget to multiple brands with more > complexity. > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: >> --> >> >> Requirements are not what I'm talking about. I agree if you're going with one COM then the SL-40/30 would be the one to go with, although I have noticed that the standby frequency is not very useful when the primary is ATC, especially when it's in fairly busy airspace. Unless it's a dead day of flying, with one COM, I would have to ask to change frequency to listen to ATIS. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation
Date: May 07, 2010
Q1. Mostly practice Q2. Autopilot, second com, second nav, second non-TSO GPS. I'm not sure this is really a ranking. I'm putting them all in my panel. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:19 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation 1. Only practice 2. VFR Autopilot, second GPS, second comm, second nav 3. IFR Second GPS, Autopilot, second comm, second nav Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: RV10-List: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation With 2 radios you can adjust volumes to listen to one more carefully than the other, for example, if you are listening to an ATIS frequency, you can turn down the center freq a little and up the ATIS frequency, while still able to hopefully catch your N-number if they call you, but you don't have to ask permission to leave the freq that way. With one radio, to actually be able to listen to an ATIS, you need to make it primary so the primary doesn't squelch it. If you are tuning to an ATIS earlier than necessary to see if it is within range, then that on the standby frequency would work perfectly because it will receive during any break on the primary frequency so you know that it is within range. A GNS-430 and SL-40, IMHO, is a good combination. I would certainly recommend a second GPS receiver somewhere, either with the Dynon SkyView, the AFS or the GRT, or one of the many handhelds available. It is not certified for IFR, but if you were IFR and lost your GNS-430, then at least you can use the situational awareness from the backup(s) to stay alive, even though it's not certified. I know there are procedures for COM failure, but there are so many better options, IMHO, if you have a second COM. I like having a second NAV as well, but very few people that I know who are flying with a GNS ever even tune a NAV unless they are just practicing, or enroute just as backup. Maybe we're the minority. Poll Question 1: For those on the list that have both, how many actually use a NAV radio for navigation other than to practice (or for an ILS approach, which a lot of the GPSes will overlay a simulation for now). Poll Question 2: Rate 2nd GPS Receiver, 2nd COM Radio, 2nd NAV Radio and Auto Pilot in order of must-have for both VFR and IFR. My answer to Q2 for VFR is Auto Pilot, GPS, COM then NAV (with NAV as a far last place) My answer for IFR is GPS, Auto Pilot & COM tied and then NAV (with NAV as a far last place) Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On May 7, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I only have one pair of ears, and whether the info is coming from > standby monitor or 2nd radio, it is difficult to focus on second > frequency if 1st is busy. > I don't see how 2nd radio is any better in that situation, but haven't > tried the SL30 yet, so maybe I am missing something. Personally, I'd > rather have the autopilot than the 2nd radio, if I had to make the > choice. Of course a com only can be had for around $1000 these days, > so might as well put one in if you have space. > > I am thinking how to avoid the overkill of GNS430 and SL30, which > essentially lets you listen to 3 frequencies and have 2 VORs or ILS's. > The SL40 eliminates the 2nd VOR, which is okay as long as GPS is > functioning, but puts all your nav in one box. Perhaps GNS420 and SL30 > would be better combo, but is more expensive than 430 and SL40. > Almost as hard as choosing EFIS, when Dynon, GRT and AFS are so close, > but each has unique positives the others don't, and you can't quite > have it all, without going up budget to multiple brands with more > complexity. > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: >> --> >> >> Requirements are not what I'm talking about. I agree if you're going with one COM then the SL-40/30 would be the one to go with, although I have noticed that the standby frequency is not very useful when the primary is ATC, especially when it's in fairly busy airspace. Unless it's a dead day of flying, with one COM, I would have to ask to change frequency to listen to ATIS. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Fairing Tip
I had never worked with laser levelers before. I took a slightly different approach which I'm guessing could be combined with yours. Instead of plumb bobs and chaulk lining the center line, I just put the laser on a small step stool near the tail. Leveled, it shot a line along the floor, split the nose gear and split the center rivets along the bottom of the fuse. Then I bummed a pretty straight piece of angle iron from my neighbor and laid that on the floor to mark the center line. I used the angle iron as a catch for the tape to measure out the aprox 27" out to the step line. From there, I used the Vans procedure with chaulk lines and plumb bobs. Seems like I could have productively started using your procedure to do the step lines, etc. The laser center line came back in to use to align the nose fairing. Bill "cleaning the shop up and staring at the finish work" Watson ' ]Peter James wrote: > > To my RV-Tenr Colleagues > > I tend to stress about things that are not as complicated as they > seem. In this case, how to simplify the alignment of the gear leg > fairings? > > Per Vans plans, you need to create center lines, artificial center > lines, Points, A, B, and X. Huh? What? This looks tough. Well its not > if you are willing to spend $30 on something you can leave in your > shop and use another day. Here is what I did. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2010
Subject: Re: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
#1. Yes, frequently, especially now that Loran is dead and my Argus moving map was tied to the Loran. 2. 2nd com, 2nd nav, autopilot, portable GPS. Those are for existing TC aircraft. I'm sure I will have differing ranking in RV-10 with PFD, MFD, TSO GPS, etc. On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > Q1. Mostly practice > > Q2. Autopilot, second com, second nav, second non-TSO GPS. I'm not sure > this is really a ranking. I'm putting them all in my panel. > > bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:19 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation > > > 1. Only practice > 2. VFR Autopilot, second GPS, second comm, second nav > 3. IFR Second GPS, Autopilot, second comm, second nav > > Rene' > 801-721-6080 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:20 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation > > > With 2 radios you can adjust volumes to listen to one more carefully than > the other, for example, if you are listening to an ATIS frequency, you can > turn down the center freq a little and up the ATIS frequency, while still > able to hopefully catch your N-number if they call you, but you don't have > to ask permission to leave the freq that way. With one radio, to actually > be able to listen to an ATIS, you need to make it primary so the primary > doesn't squelch it. If you are tuning to an ATIS earlier than necessary to > see if it is within range, then that on the standby frequency would work > perfectly because it will receive during any break on the primary frequency > so you know that it is within range. > > A GNS-430 and SL-40, IMHO, is a good combination. I would certainly > recommend a second GPS receiver somewhere, either with the Dynon SkyView, > the AFS or the GRT, or one of the many handhelds available. It is not > certified for IFR, but if you were IFR and lost your GNS-430, then at least > you can use the situational awareness from the backup(s) to stay alive, even > though it's not certified. I know there are procedures for COM failure, but > there are so many better options, IMHO, if you have a second COM. I like > having a second NAV as well, but very few people that I know who are flying > with a GNS ever even tune a NAV unless they are just practicing, or enroute > just as backup. Maybe we're the minority. > > Poll Question 1: For those on the list that have both, how many actually > use a NAV radio for navigation other than to practice (or for an ILS > approach, which a lot of the GPSes will overlay a simulation for now). > > Poll Question 2: Rate 2nd GPS Receiver, 2nd COM Radio, 2nd NAV Radio and > Auto Pilot in order of must-have for both VFR and IFR. > > My answer to Q2 for VFR is Auto Pilot, GPS, COM then NAV (with NAV as a far > last place) My answer for IFR is GPS, Auto Pilot & COM tied and then NAV > (with NAV as a far last place) > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 7, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > >> >> I only have one pair of ears, and whether the info is coming from >> standby monitor or 2nd radio, it is difficult to focus on second >> frequency if 1st is busy. >> I don't see how 2nd radio is any better in that situation, but haven't >> tried the SL30 yet, so maybe I am missing something. Personally, I'd >> rather have the autopilot than the 2nd radio, if I had to make the >> choice. Of course a com only can be had for around $1000 these days, >> so might as well put one in if you have space. >> >> I am thinking how to avoid the overkill of GNS430 and SL30, which >> essentially lets you listen to 3 frequencies and have 2 VORs or ILS's. >> The SL40 eliminates the 2nd VOR, which is okay as long as GPS is >> functioning, but puts all your nav in one box. Perhaps GNS420 and SL30 >> would be better combo, but is more expensive than 430 and SL40. >> Almost as hard as choosing EFIS, when Dynon, GRT and AFS are so close, >> but each has unique positives the others don't, and you can't quite >> have it all, without going up budget to multiple brands with more >> complexity. >> >> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Jesse Saint > wrote: >>> --> >>> >>> Requirements are not what I'm talking about. I agree if you're going > with one COM then the SL-40/30 would be the one to go with, although I have > noticed that the standby frequency is not very useful when the primary is > ATC, especially when it's in fairly busy airspace. Unless it's a dead day > of flying, with one COM, I would have to ask to change frequency to listen > to ATIS. >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2010
Subject: Re: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation
From: Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com>
I have a 430W driving the AFS 4500 and I have a second $38 serial GPS receiver driving the AFS 3500 and AP. The $30 GPS receiver is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Serial-GPS-Reciever-Cable-Kit/dp/B000VUFGF8 Works like a champ and is a great backup should the 430W fail. It is mounted under the cowling along with the 430W and XM weather antennas. On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > #1. Yes, frequently, especially now that Loran is dead and my Argus > moving map was tied to the Loran. > 2. 2nd com, 2nd nav, autopilot, portable GPS. > Those are for existing TC aircraft. I'm sure I will have differing > ranking in RV-10 with PFD, MFD, TSO GPS, etc. > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > > > Q1. Mostly practice > > > > Q2. Autopilot, second com, second nav, second non-TSO GPS. I'm not > sure > > this is really a ranking. I'm putting them all in my panel. > > > > bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:19 PM > > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RE: RV10-List: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation > > > > > > 1. Only practice > > 2. VFR Autopilot, second GPS, second comm, second nav > > 3. IFR Second GPS, Autopilot, second comm, second nav > > > > Rene' > > 801-721-6080 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:20 AM > > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV10-List: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation > > > > > > With 2 radios you can adjust volumes to listen to one more carefully than > > the other, for example, if you are listening to an ATIS frequency, you > can > > turn down the center freq a little and up the ATIS frequency, while still > > able to hopefully catch your N-number if they call you, but you don't > have > > to ask permission to leave the freq that way. With one radio, to > actually > > be able to listen to an ATIS, you need to make it primary so the primary > > doesn't squelch it. If you are tuning to an ATIS earlier than necessary > to > > see if it is within range, then that on the standby frequency would work > > perfectly because it will receive during any break on the primary > frequency > > so you know that it is within range. > > > > A GNS-430 and SL-40, IMHO, is a good combination. I would certainly > > recommend a second GPS receiver somewhere, either with the Dynon SkyView, > > the AFS or the GRT, or one of the many handhelds available. It is not > > certified for IFR, but if you were IFR and lost your GNS-430, then at > least > > you can use the situational awareness from the backup(s) to stay alive, > even > > though it's not certified. I know there are procedures for COM failure, > but > > there are so many better options, IMHO, if you have a second COM. I like > > having a second NAV as well, but very few people that I know who are > flying > > with a GNS ever even tune a NAV unless they are just practicing, or > enroute > > just as backup. Maybe we're the minority. > > > > Poll Question 1: For those on the list that have both, how many actually > > use a NAV radio for navigation other than to practice (or for an ILS > > approach, which a lot of the GPSes will overlay a simulation for now). > > > > Poll Question 2: Rate 2nd GPS Receiver, 2nd COM Radio, 2nd NAV Radio and > > Auto Pilot in order of must-have for both VFR and IFR. > > > > My answer to Q2 for VFR is Auto Pilot, GPS, COM then NAV (with NAV as a > far > > last place) My answer for IFR is GPS, Auto Pilot & COM tied and then NAV > > (with NAV as a far last place) > > > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > > > On May 7, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > >> > >> I only have one pair of ears, and whether the info is coming from > >> standby monitor or 2nd radio, it is difficult to focus on second > >> frequency if 1st is busy. > >> I don't see how 2nd radio is any better in that situation, but haven't > >> tried the SL30 yet, so maybe I am missing something. Personally, I'd > >> rather have the autopilot than the 2nd radio, if I had to make the > >> choice. Of course a com only can be had for around $1000 these days, > >> so might as well put one in if you have space. > >> > >> I am thinking how to avoid the overkill of GNS430 and SL30, which > >> essentially lets you listen to 3 frequencies and have 2 VORs or ILS's. > >> The SL40 eliminates the 2nd VOR, which is okay as long as GPS is > >> functioning, but puts all your nav in one box. Perhaps GNS420 and SL30 > >> would be better combo, but is more expensive than 430 and SL40. > >> Almost as hard as choosing EFIS, when Dynon, GRT and AFS are so close, > >> but each has unique positives the others don't, and you can't quite > >> have it all, without going up budget to multiple brands with more > >> complexity. > >> > >> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Jesse Saint > > wrote: > >>> --> > >>> > >>> Requirements are not what I'm talking about. I agree if you're > going > > with one COM then the SL-40/30 would be the one to go with, although I > have > > noticed that the standby frequency is not very useful when the primary is > > ATC, especially when it's in fairly busy airspace. Unless it's a dead > day > > of flying, with one COM, I would have to ask to change frequency to > listen > > to ATIS. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 07, 2010
Subject: Re: GPS vs NAV Radio Navigation
1: Nav1 for approaches and entertainment purposes on long X/Cs. Sadly Nav2 mostly for storing backup freqs. Our lowest approach at home is a localizer that's used regularly. The nearest ILS recently got an LPV down to the same minimums. 2: 2nd GPS Receiver (XM and approach plates), Auto Pilot, 2nd COM Radio, 2nd NAV Radio Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > > Poll Question 1: For those on the list that have both, how many actually > use a NAV radio for navigation other than to practice (or for an ILS > approach, which a lot of the GPSes will overlay a simulation for now). > > Poll Question 2: Rate 2nd GPS Receiver, 2nd COM Radio, 2nd NAV Radio and > Auto Pilot in order of must-have for both VFR and IFR. > > My answer to Q2 for VFR is Auto Pilot, GPS, COM then NAV (with NAV as a far > last place) > My answer for IFR is GPS, Auto Pilot & COM tied and then NAV (with NAV as a > far last place) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OH Vent Controller Report
From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: May 08, 2010
One of the issues with overhead consoles fed via a pair of NACA vents is that you get a LOT of air at relatively high pressure. The downside is that the air coming out the individual vents in the console is at high pressure so for a comfortable amount of air you wind up with them almost closed. I had been considering installing butterfly valves in the feed lines but during a discussion with Geoff Combs (http://www.aerosportproducts.com/) I found out that he already had a solution in mind. He sent me a prototype of his OH console vent controller and it's GREAT! It allows you to remotely adjust the air flow into the OH console and the end result is that you have the interior vents at low pressure but providing a high volume of air to the passengers. Install is simple - it has a couple of 2" segments with butterfly valves in them controlled by a single servo. Just connect those into your air feed. There's a very small control module (about 3/4" x 2") with a potentiometer on it the connects to the servo via supplied 3 conductor wire. It also needs power/ground to the control module. I installed the control module in my OH console and supplied power from an inline fuse protected wire off the switched side of the battery contactor so wire run was simple and didn't require anything in the panel. Total install time was a couple hours including removal/reinstall of the baggage bulkhead. If you've got an OH console you can relate to the high air pressure issue - this is a very elegant solution. In the spirit of full disclosure: except for having received one of the prototype units for testing I have no financial interest in Geoff's company or the product. Bob RV-10 N442PM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297110#297110 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
From: "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net>
Date: May 08, 2010
Bob (and anyone else flying with an OH console), besides using Geoff's controller, what are the pros or cons with just going with one NACA vent vs two to feed the OH. -------- Todd Stovall 728TT (reserved) RV-10 Empacone, Wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297111#297111 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
Date: May 08, 2010
I have 2 NACA feeds to my OH console and it is just fine. This is the HOT part of the country with mucho days of +100 temps. My summertime flying at low altitudes has all vents wide open and wishing for more. I even use one of those tent coolers in the back seat to help out while on the ground. Albert Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ -----Original Message----- Bob (and anyone else flying with an OH console), besides using Geoff's controller, what are the pros or cons with just going with one NACA vent vs two to feed the OH. Todd Stovall 728TT (reserved) RV-10 Empacone, Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
Date: May 08, 2010
I have two vents, one would be plenty but I'm not sure how good one would be during taxi. The airflow on the ground with two is great. In the air I need to keep the vent pointed away from my mic due to the velocity of the air even turned way down Rick On May 8, 2010, at 8:51 AM, "tsts4" wrote: > > Bob (and anyone else flying with an OH console), besides using > Geoff's controller, what are the pros or cons with just going with > one NACA vent vs two to feed the OH. > > -------- > Todd Stovall > 728TT (reserved) > RV-10 Empacone, Wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297111#297111 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
Date: May 08, 2010
Con: One side of the aircraft being a few ounces lighter than the other. :^) I thought about this for awhile and just put them both in. I don't think there is any particular advantage or disadvantage. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tsts4 Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 11:51 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: OH Vent Controller Report Bob (and anyone else flying with an OH console), besides using Geoff's controller, what are the pros or cons with just going with one NACA vent vs two to feed the OH. -------- Todd Stovall 728TT (reserved) RV-10 Empacone, Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
Date: May 08, 2010
You know why they don't send donkeys to college? No one likes a smart donkey!! Sorry Bob, I just couldn't resist. Gary Specketer -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: OH Vent Controller Report Con: One side of the aircraft being a few ounces lighter than the other. :^) I thought about this for awhile and just put them both in. I don't think there is any particular advantage or disadvantage. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tsts4 Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 11:51 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: OH Vent Controller Report Bob (and anyone else flying with an OH console), besides using Geoff's controller, what are the pros or cons with just going with one NACA vent vs two to feed the OH. -------- Todd Stovall 728TT (reserved) RV-10 Empacone, Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: May 08, 2010
In response to the question about whether one NACA vent would be sufficient: I don't think anybody has tested that. The original (Accuracy Avionics) method had a single 2" vent in the tail fairing - kind of a smaller version of the 727 look. When a few of us decided that we didn't want that, a NACA vent approach was taken but early adopters didn't know 1) if there would be sufficient flow with a single vent, and 2) whether the left or right side would be better placement. I was actually going to figure this out by blocking off one and a time and test flying but Geoff's controller negated the need. Bob RV-10 N442PM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297136#297136 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: May 08, 2010
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
I was one of the semi-early installers / flying -10's with the AA OH Console. I asked the same question over 2 years ago with no definite answer. After some consideration I placed both NACA vents in for my system. Once flying I covered one vent to test and found that much less air was available for ground ops and slightly less pleasure but still acceptable amounts were available in flight. Please note in reflecting back on my test observation I am sure I had both back vents closed so please take that into consideration when making your decision. I would place both NACA vents in again if I were in the position to decide. I do plan on adding the electrically controlled valve during my condition inspection (once I find out the pricing). Good luck, Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2010
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Re: OH Vent Controller Report
I have the Accuracy Avionics overhead and two Naca inlets. I have a CO monitor and have noted that occasionally, I will get a warning when flying low and with the overhead vents open. Seems to only happen with a crosswind . I wonder if the corkscrew airflow is putting some of the exhaust in the right NACA duct. Will try and block off each side and see if it helps or recurrs. I do like the overhead airflow. It is nice on the hot Texas days. Dr Fred 515 FW tsts4 wrote: > > Bob (and anyone else flying with an OH console), besides using Geoff's controller, what are the pros or cons with just going with one NACA vent vs two to feed the OH. > > -------- > Todd Stovall > 728TT (reserved) > RV-10 Empacone, Wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297111#297111 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2010
Subject: EPA Issues Proposed Rulemaking for Leaded Avgas
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Might want to keep this in mind when you select compression ratio for your engine: On April 28, 2010, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued an advance notice of proposed rulemaking (ANPRM), the first step in a process that may lead to standards mandating GAs transition to unleaded avgas. This action allows the public to comment on the current data being considered to develop standards to control lead emissions from piston-powered aircraft. Avgas is the only remaining transportation fuel in the United States that contains lead. FAA is committed to continue working with the GA community to test, adopt, and certify a new aviation gasoline fuel standard. In addition, FAA established a GA alternative fuels program at the FAA Technical Center to continue research of unleaded aviation fuels and has issued many supplemental type certificates (STCs) to allow aircraft with lower-performance engines to operate with unleaded automobile gasoline. Despite ongoing research, currently there is no definitive replacement for unleaded avgas available that will meet the needs of all GA aircraft. EPA will use data gathered through this comment-seeking process, as well as work with FAA and industry, to decide whether to enact restrictions on the use of leaded avgas. EPA estimates that lead emissions from aircraft using leaded avgas accounts for approximately half of the national inventory of lead emitted to air. EPA will accept public comment on the ANPRM until June 28, 2010. To view the ANPRM and to provide comments, go to www.regulations.gov and search Docket ID: EPA-HQ-OAR-2007-0294. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Subject: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals
Date: May 09, 2010
For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan on gluing as well. One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight, or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door. Regards, Mike Schipper #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Speaker in overhead console
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: May 09, 2010
Hi there, did anyone install a speaker in the overhead console, and do you know if there is anything to be aware of in terms of distance to the outside mounted GPS antenna, or the magnetometer cables passing by form the back? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297183#297183 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2010
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals
I didn't build up any portion of the cabin frame door opening. But there were several places that I needed to thin the frame edges. (most memorable was the corners at the top of the doors where the fiberglass was extremely thick. I know others have found it necessary to build them up some. I believe it is a function of 2 things: 1. How you fit your doors. I don't think any 2 RV10's have the same door fit. 2, Also, how you go about removing the material. By that I mean, since the edge of the cabin frame 'twists' as it goes from vertical to horiz. you need to trim the frame so that the bulb of the seal will contact the door at the same relative angle (flat). So as you begin trimming the door frame at the bottom of the door the 'cut' is almost at a right angle to the door channel, and as you extend up the door and as the frame curves, you need to keep the cut at the same relative angle. When you get to the upper corners this will result in a relatively sharp and wide edge for the door seal to clamp on, as opposed to the aprox 3/16" edge at the bottom. The door seal material, is made of alum and wrapped in vinyl. inside of the channel are 'teeth' that are there to grip on to what ever material the frame is made of. (fiberglass in our case). A carefully wielded rubber mallet does a good job of mating the seal to the frame. HOWEVER, you will find that when you enter/exit the plane you will find yourself grabbing on to the door frame.and seal. This will cause the alum channel to expand and the seal will loosen. I found it necessary to glue mine, I used Proseal, others have used autobody trim cement. Deems Davis N519PJ www.deemsrv10.com On 5/9/2010 8:31 AM, Michael Schipper wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Schipper > > For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan on gluing as well. > > One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight, or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door. > > Regards, > Mike Schipper > #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Speaker in overhead console
Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > > Hi there, > did anyone install a speaker in the overhead console, I'm not .... you should be wearing a headset to protect your hearing, making a speaker dead weight. > and do you know if there is anything to be aware of in terms of distance to the outside mounted GPS antenna, or the magnetometer cables passing by form the back? > Neither should be an issue ...... providing you use shielded cable and terminate the shield properly. Just my 2 pennies. Linn > Thanks Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297183#297183 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals
Date: May 09, 2010
Thanks Deems, that is helpful information. I have referenced the pictures on your site many times. I agree that it seems like each door installation is unique (In my case I have a green cabin top and pink doors). Another problem area appears to be around the gas strut attach bracket. Did you just cut the channel and keep the "bulb" intact above the bracket? Thanks, Mike Schipper #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com On May 9, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Deems Davis wrote: > I didn't build up any portion of the cabin frame door opening. But there were several places that I needed to thin the frame edges. (most memorable was the corners at the top of the doors where the fiberglass was extremely thick. I know others have found it necessary to build them up some. I believe it is a function of 2 things: > 1. How you fit your doors. I don't think any 2 RV10's have the same door fit. > 2, Also, how you go about removing the material. By that I mean, since the edge of the cabin frame 'twists' as it goes from vertical to horiz. you need to trim the frame so that the bulb of the seal will contact the door at the same relative angle (flat). So as you begin trimming the door frame at the bottom of the door the 'cut' is almost at a right angle to the door channel, and as you extend up the door and as the frame curves, you need to keep the cut at the same relative angle. When you get to the upper corners this will result in a relatively sharp and wide edge for the door seal to clamp on, as opposed to the aprox 3/16" edge at the bottom. > The door seal material, is made of alum and wrapped in vinyl. inside of the channel are 'teeth' that are there to grip on to what ever material the frame is made of. (fiberglass in our case). A carefully wielded rubber mallet does a good job of mating the seal to the frame. HOWEVER, you will find that when you enter/exit the plane you will find yourself grabbing on to the door frame.and seal. This will cause the alum channel to expand and the seal will loosen. I found it necessary to glue mine, I used Proseal, others have used autobody trim cement. > > Deems Davis > N519PJ > www.deemsrv10.com > > On 5/9/2010 8:31 AM, Michael Schipper wrote: >> >> >> For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan on gluing as well. >> >> One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight, or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door. >> >> Regards, >> Mike Schipper >> #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2010
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals
> > Another problem area appears to be around the gas strut attach > bracket. Did you just cut the channel and keep the "bulb" intact above > the bracket? Exactly Deems > > Thanks, > Mike Schipper > #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com <http://www.rvten.com> > > > On May 9, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Deems Davis wrote: > >> I didn't build up any portion of the cabin frame door opening. But >> there were several places that I needed to thin the frame edges. >> (most memorable was the corners at the top of the doors where the >> fiberglass was extremely thick. I know others have found it necessary >> to build them up some. I believe it is a function of 2 things: >> 1. How you fit your doors. I don't think any 2 RV10's have the same >> door fit. >> 2, Also, how you go about removing the material. By that I mean, >> since the edge of the cabin frame 'twists' as it goes from vertical >> to horiz. you need to trim the frame so that the bulb of the seal >> will contact the door at the same relative angle (flat). So as you >> begin trimming the door frame at the bottom of the door the 'cut' is >> almost at a right angle to the door channel, and as you extend up the >> door and as the frame curves, you need to keep the cut at the same >> relative angle. When you get to the upper corners this will result in >> a relatively sharp and wide edge for the door seal to clamp on, as >> opposed to the aprox 3/16" edge at the bottom. >> The door seal material, is made of alum and wrapped in vinyl. inside >> of the channel are 'teeth' that are there to grip on to what ever >> material the frame is made of. (fiberglass in our case). A carefully >> wielded rubber mallet does a good job of mating the seal to the >> frame. HOWEVER, you will find that when you enter/exit the plane you >> will find yourself grabbing on to the door frame.and seal. This will >> cause the alum channel to expand and the seal will loosen. I found it >> necessary to glue mine, I used Proseal, others have used autobody >> trim cement. >> >> Deems Davis >> N519PJ >> www.deemsrv10.com >> >> On 5/9/2010 8:31 AM, Michael Schipper wrote: >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Schipper >>> >>> For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan on gluing as well. >>> >>> One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight, or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Mike Schipper >>> #40576 - finishing -www.rvten.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> >> * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals
I had to build out the flange along the bottom of the door slightly. Also cut flange back and ran seal continously around strut. Bill Michael Schipper wrote: > > For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan on gluing as well. > > One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight, or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door. > > Regards, > Mike Schipper > #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV-10 Fire
Date: May 09, 2010
Good idea! Any suggestions about where to get line and fittings for this? From: dlm46007(at)cox.net Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire Date: Sun=2C 9 May 2010 19:53:05 -0700 The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the components of the tunnel are. One could expect that the fl ap motor was the Vans motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also always run a good test when cleaning the fuel filter=3B use fuel lube on th e fittings. ----- Original Message ----- From: Danny Riggs To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday=2C May 09=2C 2010 6:20 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow and Andair pumps are sealed by the looks of them. From: dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com Date: Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire The latest on VAF says they should both be OK. I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so at least a small leak wouldn't puddle. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville=2C CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Sat=2C May 8=2C 2010 at 9:00 PM=2C Perry=2C Phil wrote: --> RV10-List message posted by: "Perry=2C Phil" I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay. Not trying to speculate=2C but this event caused me to think through a couple of topics. Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion resistant? If not=2C they probably should be since there are several fuel lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical items. I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think the RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should immediately mean no flaps and no boost pump. For the record=2C I don't even know if he was operating either. Just thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim(at)myrv10.com] Sent: Saturday=2C May 08=2C 2010 10:29 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire Just caught this on VAF... http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715 Would be nice to hear that he's really ok=2C if anyone knows how bad off they were. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com le=2C List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigatwww.matronics.com/contribution">http://www. matronics.com/contribution The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb ox. Get started. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot mail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=P ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Date: May 09, 2010
I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas on whe re to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display flap posi tion. Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few. Thanks=2C JOhn G ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Date: May 10, 2010
Hey John, Here's what we did. Others have suggested using threaded rod with a yoke (model airplane connectors) which is a good idea. But there is still some fiddling to do to get the range of throw right. The sensor itself apparently is less accurate at the end limits, so keep that in mind. Later, - Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: John Gonzalez To: RV 10 group Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 12:46 AM Subject: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas on where to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display flap position. Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few. Thanks, JOhn G ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2010
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Here's what several of us have done... seems to work just fine... 2 of us w ith AFS 3500's. Don --- On Sun, 5/9/10, John Gonzalez wrote: From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> Subject: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 9:46 PM I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas on whe re to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display flap posi tion.- Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few.- Thanks, JOhn G =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2010
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire and Annual results
I use following item as a CO monitor, however it does detect benzene as well so should be ok to detect fuel vapour. http://www.conrad-uk.com/ enter on the left hand in the part no 117510 google is your friend, so found it as well here: <http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/KEMO-ELECTRONIC-B051-/28-8078> Mine is hooked onto an LED blinking, needs about 1 min to warm up but then works like a charm Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Date: May 10, 2010
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 10, 2010
Don, Could you do us a favor and remove image "1510" and repost it in a smaller size? It would get rid of the scrolling to the right. John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297245#297245 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Google 'imageresizerpowertoy.exe'. Right click on the image in your email and you can resize it on the fly. Linn johngoodman wrote: > > Don, > Could you do us a favor and remove image "1510" and repost it in a smaller size? It would get rid of the scrolling to the right. > John > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297245#297245 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: May 10, 2010
Subject: RV-10 Fire and Annual results
Interesting, I may pick one of these up for the tunnel and interface it with my VP. A while back someone had talked about using one of these for a fire detection system under the hood.... http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=121 Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 4:35 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire and Annual results I use following item as a CO monitor, however it does detect benzene as well so should be ok to detect fuel vapour. http://www.conrad-uk.com/ enter on the left hand in the part no 117510 google is your friend, so found it as well here: <http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/KEMO-ELECTRONIC-B051-/28-8078> Mine is hooked onto an LED blinking, needs about 1 min to warm up but then works like a charm Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: May 10, 2010
Subject: RV-10 Fire
Come on Stein.......................you take all the fun out of reading these post when you add COMMON SENSE into the mix! Have to share this recent experience to show how even builders who seek help from other builders can be a danger to themselves. An RV10 b uilder had shared with me how he had just completed fitting his doors an d was very proud of how well they fit. He then put on the Vans stock gr ey door seal..........and now the doors required several pounds of force to get them shut. BTW he did install the new Safety latch per Vans. N ext fix was to harden the door to the rear and put a handle there so he could pull the door in at the front and rear. After all was said and do ne the doors shut ............but the seal deformed the door and it was not flush to the canopy. So he asks me how did we get our doors to fi t and close so well? When I showed him the COMMON SENSE approach to sea ling doors on the RV10 without requiring any pressure to close them..... .........he chuckled and said..........That will not work on my plane! LOL And we wonder how doors come off these planes? The point I am ma king and what I think Stein is making is................a knee jerk reac tion and over modifying a proven design can be more dangerous then a lit tle COMMON SENSE. Until that happens the list will continue to be a great source of inform ation and entertainment unless Stein stops it with his Devils Advocate s tuff.............lol Dean ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 Fire
Date: May 10, 2010
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I can't see how a vapor sensor and indicator light would be a Darwin award winner or a modification of significance in any way. We already install CO vapor sensors to protect against something unseen, this is no different. If I'm wrong, please correct me or explain why my thinking is messed up because I just don't see anything wrong with it. Some could argue that it's not necessary and their perspective would be correct too. After all, we've only had one plane explode on us and we don't even know the cause of it. Any changes could be perceived as a knee-jerk reaction; and at this point they are. I would think twice about shooting Halon into the tunnel though. In an explosion it wouldn't help (except for a post-explosion fire) and I prefer to keep that stuff outside the cabin. Phil From: ddddsp1(at)juno.com [mailto:ddddsp1(at)juno.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire Come on Stein.......................you take all the fun out of reading these post when you add COMMON SENSE into the mix! Have to share this recent experience to show how even builders who seek help from other builders can be a danger to themselves. An RV10 builder had shared with me how he had just completed fitting his doors and was very proud of how well they fit. He then put on the Vans stock grey door seal..........and now the doors required several pounds of force to get them shut. BTW he did install the new Safety latch per Vans. Next fix was to harden the door to the rear and put a handle there so he could pull the door in at the front and rear. After all was said and done the doors shut ............but the seal deformed the door and it was not flush to the canopy. So he asks me how did we get our doors to fit and close so well? When I showed him the COMMON SENSE approach to sealing doors on the RV10 without requiring any pressure to close them..............he chuckled and said..........That will not work on my plane! LOL And we wonder how doors come off these planes? The point I am making and what I think Stein is making is................a knee jerk reaction and over modifying a proven design can be more dangerous then a little COMMON SENSE. Until that happens the list will continue to be a great source of information and entertainment unless Stein stops it with his Devils Advocate stuff.............lol Dean ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc> AwesomePennyStocks.com <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2010
From: <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-10 Fire
Actually Halon would form a non explosive vapor environment over any puddled fuel. Fighter aircraft blow the Halon bottle into the fuel tanks to limit their ability to explode if hit by anti aircraft anything. Least that's what I've been told. FWIW I think a 1/4 cup of gasoline will yield enough vapor to produce an explosion equivalent to several sticks of TNT. Carbon Monoxide is odorless, I can justify that sensor, I would seriously consider investing in the best fuel "system" money can buy. My annual is gonna start next weekend. First thing on my list is to order the Teflon lines to replace the braided one I made initially. Nothing wrong with them but they can be made better. The pressure produced on Todd's incident must have been pretty high to blow out the windows. I suspect it was not the tunnel that blew but fuel vapors in the low lying areas of the aircraft. Gasoline vapors in that much concentration would have been very detectible to the nose if they had been near their heads. Just thinking out loud. Glad they are OK. Rick S. N246RS Flying ---- "Perry wrote: > I can't see how a vapor sensor and indicator light would be a Darwin > award winner or a modification of significance in any way. We already > install CO vapor sensors to protect against something unseen, this is > no different. If I'm wrong, please correct me or explain why my > thinking is messed up because I just don't see anything wrong with it. > > > > Some could argue that it's not necessary and their perspective would be > correct too. After all, we've only had one plane explode on us and we > don't even know the cause of it. Any changes could be perceived as a > knee-jerk reaction; and at this point they are. > > > > I would think twice about shooting Halon into the tunnel though. In an > explosion it wouldn't help (except for a post-explosion fire) and I > prefer to keep that stuff outside the cabin. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > From: ddddsp1(at)juno.com [mailto:ddddsp1(at)juno.com] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:05 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire > > > > Come on Stein.......................you take all the fun out of reading > these post when you add COMMON SENSE into the mix! > > Have to share this recent experience to show how even builders who seek > help from other builders can be a danger to themselves. An RV10 > builder had shared with me how he had just completed fitting his doors > and was very proud of how well they fit. He then put on the Vans stock > grey door seal..........and now the doors required several pounds of > force to get them shut. BTW he did install the new Safety latch per > Vans. Next fix was to harden the door to the rear and put a handle > there so he could pull the door in at the front and rear. After all was > said and done the doors shut ............but the seal deformed the door > and it was not flush to the canopy. So he asks me how did we get our > doors to fit and close so well? When I showed him the COMMON SENSE > approach to sealing doors on the RV10 without requiring any pressure to > close them..............he chuckled and said..........That will not work > on my plane! LOL And we wonder how doors come off these planes? The > point I am making and what I think Stein is making is................a > knee jerk reaction and over modifying a proven design can be more > dangerous then a little COMMON SENSE. > > Until that happens the list will continue to be a great source of > information and entertainment unless Stein stops it with his Devils > Advocate stuff.............lol > > Dean > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Penny Stock Jumping 2000% > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! > <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc> > AwesomePennyStocks.com > <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob and Karen Brown" <bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: RV-10 Fire
Date: May 10, 2010
What I heard as a casual listener is that installing a vapor sensor wouldn't hurt anything, and it probably wouldn't. Would it be another layer of complexity? Sure, on some level. It may or may not have given any benefit in this instance, same thing with a fire suppression system.generally not much use in what sounded like an explosive fuel/air mixture. Given my experience with other monitor systems, the incidence of even one false alarm may cause more harm than help, depending on our reaction to the alarm. Reminds me of one of our employees who broke a hip during a fire drill, then had a heart attack and died. That sounds like something I'd do. What I heard Stein say effectively, without dissing any particular installation, is that we need to remember that when these RV's are built simply and per plans and in accordance with AC4313, FAR's and generally accepted A&P methods, we haven't seen a propensity toward fuel/explosion hazards. As such we need to avoid a redesign of any particular system without knowing any of the background on the causes of this incident. Since we have no clue what the fuel system looked like on this particular airplane in terms of design, installation or materials, we're just going to have to see what develops. What I heard Stein saying was, that in the meantime, build with care, and keep your eyes open. I remember a fuel vent line broke on of the C-182's I used to own and totally drenched both my wife and I in avgas when we were in cruise at 6,000 ft, 5 miles from an airport in Nevada. We were both absolutely covered with fuel, it was blowing all over inside the cockpit from the passenger doorpost area (where the rubber vent line joined the aluminum portion). I shut off the master and hoped for the best as my wife held a rag around the area of the doorpost that seemed to be spewing the most fuel. I remember that one as the longest approach to a landing of my life and I'm still amazed that something didn't spark it. We all wish a speedy recovery to Todd and his daughter, both mentally and physically. It's a tough time and I was heartbroken to read about it, but very relieved to know there were no fatalities. Bob Brown RV7A-Flying 4 yrs RV-10 40871 - FWF/Finishing From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire I can't see how a vapor sensor and indicator light would be a Darwin award winner or a modification of significance in any way. We already install CO vapor sensors to protect against something unseen, this is no different. If I'm wrong, please correct me or explain why my thinking is messed up because I just don't see anything wrong with it. Some could argue that it's not necessary and their perspective would be correct too. After all, we've only had one plane explode on us and we don't even know the cause of it. Any changes could be perceived as a knee-jerk reaction; and at this point they are. I would think twice about shooting Halon into the tunnel though. In an explosion it wouldn't help (except for a post-explosion fire) and I prefer to keep that stuff outside the cabin. Phil From: ddddsp1(at)juno.com [mailto:ddddsp1(at)juno.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire Come on Stein.......................you take all the fun out of reading these post when you add COMMON SENSE into the mix! Have to share this recent experience to show how even builders who seek help from other builders can be a danger to themselves. An RV10 builder had shared with me how he had just completed fitting his doors and was very proud of how well they fit. He then put on the Vans stock grey door seal..........and now the doors required several pounds of force to get them shut. BTW he did install the new Safety latch per Vans. Next fix was to harden the door to the rear and put a handle there so he could pull the door in at the front and rear. After all was said and done the doors shut ............but the seal deformed the door and it was not flush to the canopy. So he asks me how did we get our doors to fit and close so well? When I showed him the COMMON SENSE approach to sealing doors on the RV10 without requiring any pressure to close them..............he chuckled and said..........That will not work on my plane! LOL And we wonder how doors come off these planes? The point I am making and what I think Stein is making is................a knee jerk reaction and over modifying a proven design can be more dangerous then a little COMMON SENSE. Until that happens the list will continue to be a great source of information and entertainment unless Stein stops it with his Devils Advocate stuff.............lol Dean ____________________________________________________________ <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc> Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc> AwesomePennyStocks.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire
Date: May 10, 2010
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
TG9sIQ0KDQpUaW0sDQoNClNtYXJ0IHBlb3BsZSB1c2UgYW4gb2lsIGxhbXAgdG8gaWxsdW1pbmF0 ZSB0aGF0IGFyZWEuIDopDQoNClBoaWwNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0t LS0NCkZyb206IHJpY2tza2VkQGNveC5uZXQgPHJpY2tza2VkQGNveC5uZXQ+DQpUbzogcnYxMC1s aXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gPHJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU2VudDogTW9uIE1h eSAxMCAxMDowOToyNyAyMDEwDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBSVi0xMCBGaXJlDQoN Ci0tPiBSVjEwLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IDxyaWNrc2tlZEBjb3gubmV0Pg0KDQpN YWtlIHN1cmUgeW91ciBmbGFzaGxpZ2h0IGlzIGhlcm1ldGljYWxseSBzZWFsZWQgYW5kIGludHJp bnNpY2FsbHkgc2FmZSBmb3IgdXNlIGluIGFuIGV4cGxvc2l2ZSBhdG1vc3BoZXJlISAgOikNCg0K ZG8gbm90IGFyY2hpdmUNCi0tLS0gVGltIE9sc29uIDxUaW1ATXlSVjEwLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6IA0K PiAtLT4gUlYxMC1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVkIGJ5OiBUaW0gT2xzb24gPFRpbUBteXJ2MTAu Y29tPg0KPiANCj4gUFM6IGR1cmluZyB0cm91Ymxlc2hvb3RpbmcgdGhlIGZ1ZWwgZml0dGluZywg SSBkaWQNCj4gZHJpbGwgaW4gYSBob2xlIG9uIGVhY2ggc2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgdHVubmVsIGJ5DQo+ IHRoZSBmdWVsIHZhbHZlIHRvIHVzZSBmb3IgdmlzdWFsL2RpZ2l0YWwgKGZpbmdlcikvc25pZmYN Cj4gaW5zcGVjdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgdHVubmVsIGFyZWEgbmVhciB0aGUgZnVlbCB2YWx2ZS4NCj4g SSBkaWRuJ3Qgd2FudCBhIGh1Z2UgYWNjZXNzIGhvbGUsIGJ1dCBzb21ldGhpbmcgc2ltcGxlDQo+ IHRoYXQgSSBjb3VsZCB0YWtlIGEgcXVpY2sgcGVlayBhbmQgc25pZmYgdGhyb3VnaC4NCj4gV2l0 aCBvbmUgb24gZWFjaCBzaWRlIEkgY2FuIGxpZ2h0IGl0IHVwIHdpdGggYQ0KPiBmbGFzaGxpZ2h0 IHRvby4NCj4gDQo+IFRpbSBPbHNvbiAtIFJWLTEwIE4xMDRDRA0KPiBkbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZQ0K PiANCj4gDQo+IFRpbSBPbHNvbiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiAtLT4gUlYxMC1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9z dGVkIGJ5OiBUaW0gT2xzb24gPFRpbUBteXJ2MTAuY29tPg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IEknZCBoYXZlIHRv IGFncmVlIGEgYml0IHdpdGggU3RlaW4gb24gdGhpcy4gIEEgc2ltcGxlIGxpZ2h0IG9uDQo+ID4g dGhlIHBhbmVsIG1heSBiZSBubyBiaWcgZGVhbCwgYW5kIGEgZmlyZSBzdXBwcmVzc2lvbiBzeXN0 ZW0NCj4gPiBpc24ndCBhIGJhZCBpZGVhIGlmIHlvdSB3YW50IHRoZSBhZGRlZCBzcGFjZSB1c2Us IHdlaWdodCwNCj4gPiBvciB0aGF0LCBlaXRoZXIsIGJ1dCB0aGVyZSByZWFsbHkgaGFzbid0IGJl ZW4gYSByYXNoIG9mIHRoaXMNCj4gPiBoYXBwZW5pbmcgaW4gZWl0aGVyIFJWJ3Mgbm9yIGNlcnRp ZmllZCBwbGFuZXMuICBTbyBpdCBjYW4NCj4gPiBiZSBhcHByb2FjaGVkIGxlc3MgdXJnZW50bHkg dGhhbiBtb3N0IHRoaW5ncy4gIElmIHlvdSBzaW1wbHkNCj4gPiBzYWlkIHlvdSdyZSBnb2luZyB0 byBzZWFsIHRoZSBmbGFwIG1vdG9yLCBncmVhdCwgYnV0IGlmIHlvdQ0KPiA+IHBsdWcgdGhlIGV4 aXN0aW5nIGhvbGVzLCBkbyB5b3Uga25vdyBpZiB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbnkgZG93bnNpZGU/DQo+ID4g SWYgeW91IGRyaWxsIGhvbGVzIGluIHRoZSBiZWxseSwgeW91IG1heSBwcmV2ZW50IHB1ZGRsaW5n LCBidXQNCj4gPiB5b3UgbWF5IGxldCBJTiBvdGhlciB0aGluZ3MgdG9vLCBkZXBlbmRpbmcgb24g dGhlIGFpciBwcmVzc3VyZSwNCj4gPiBhbmQgdGhlcmUgaXMgaG90IGV4aGF1c3QganVzdCBpbiBm cm9udCBvZiB0aG9zZSBob2xlcywgaWYgeW91DQo+ID4gZG8gZ2V0IGZ1ZWwgbGVha2luZyBvdXQu ICBTbyB5b3UgaGF2ZSB0byByZWFsbHkgdGhpbmsNCj4gPiB0aHJvdWdoIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgZGVl cGx5IGlmIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgbW9kcy4NCj4gPiANCj4gPiBSZWdhcmRpbmcgZmxhbW1h YmlsaXR5LCBhcyBTdGVpbiBzYXlzLCB0aGVyZSdzIHJlYWxseSBhDQo+ID4gSEVMIGFuZCBMRUwg dG8gZnVlbCBmb3IgYW4gZXhwbG9zaW9uLiAgVG9vIG11Y2gNCj4gPiBhbmQgaXQgd29uJ3QgYmxv dywgdG9vIGxpdHRsZSBhbmQgaXQgd29uJ3QgYmxvdy4gU28NCj4gPiBqdXN0IGhhdmluZyBhIGZ1 ZWwgbGVhayBkb2Vzbid0IG1lYW4geW91J3JlIEdPSU5HIHRvDQo+ID4gaGF2ZSBhIGZpcmUuICBC dXQsIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBkb3plbnMgb2YgdGhpbmdzIGluIHRoZQ0KPiA+IHBsYW5lIHRoYXQgY2Fu IGNhdXNlIHNwYXJrcyB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIGlnbml0ZSB2YXBvcnMNCj4gPiB0aGF0IGFyZSB3aXRo aW4gdGhlIGV4cGxvc2l2ZSByYW5nZS4uLmZhbnMgb24geW91ciBFRklTDQo+ID4gb3IgaW4gdGhl IHBhbmVsLCBvciBoZWNrLCBldmVuIHRoZSBhY3Qgb2Ygb3BlbmluZyBvcg0KPiA+IGNsb3Npbmcg YSBzd2l0Y2guIFNvIHJlYWxseSwgeW91IG5lZWQgdG8gYnVpbGQgdGhlIHBsYW5lDQo+ID4gaW4g YSBnb29kIHNvbGlkIHdheSwgdGhhdCBpcyB0cnVzdHdvcnRoeSwgYW5kIG5vdCBzZXR0bGUNCj4g PiBmb3IgYW55IGFtb3VudCBvZiBmdWVsIGxlYWthZ2UuDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gUmVnYXJkaW5nIGxl YWthZ2UsIEkganVzdCB3ZW50IHRocm91Z2ggdGhpcyB3aGVuIEkgc3dhcHBlZA0KPiA+IGluIG15 IG5ldyB0ZWZsb24gZnVlbCBsaW5lcy4gIEkgaGFkIG9uZSBmaXR0aW5nIHRoYXQganVzdA0KPiA+ IGRpZCBOT1Qgd2FudCB0byBiZSBsZWFrIGZyZWUuICBJJ2QgaW5zdGFsbCB0aGUgbGluZSwNCj4g PiBjbGVhbiBhbmQgZHJ5IGl0LCBmaWxsIHRoZSB0YW5rcywgYW5kIHdhaXQgb3Zlcm5pZ2h0Lg0K PiA+IEl0IHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgbW9pc3R1cmUgb24gaXQuICBOb3QgbmVjZXNzYXJpbHkgZXZlbg0K PiA+IGVub3VnaCB0byBjYXVzZSBhIHB1ZGRsZSwgYnV0IHlvdSBjb3VsZCBmZWVsIHRoZSBmdWVs DQo+ID4gb24geW91ciBmaW5nZXJzLiBJIHdlbnQgcm91bmQgYW5kIHJvdW5kIHVudGlsIGZpbmFs bHkNCj4gPiBqdXN0IGhhdmluZyB0aGVtIG1ha2UgYSBuZXcgaG9zZSBmb3IgbWUuICBUaGF0IGZp eGVkIGl0Li4uDQo+ID4gaXQgd2FzIGFuIEFOLWZpdHRpbmcgZmVtYWxlIHNlYXQgdGhhdCBqdXN0 IGRpZG4ndCBoYXZlIGENCj4gPiBwZXJmZWN0IHNlYXQgZmFjZSBvciBzb21ldGhpbmcuIEJ1dCB5 b3UgY2FuJ3QgdGFrZSBmdWVsDQo+ID4gaXNzdWVzIGxpZ2h0bHkuICBUaGF0J3MgcGFydCBvZiB3 aHkgdGhlIHF1YWxpdHkgQW5kYWlyDQo+ID4gdmFsdmUgYW5kIG5vdCBzb21lIHRyYWN0b3IgdmFs dmUuICBUaGF0J3Mgd2h5IEkgYWxzbw0KPiA+IGRpZG4ndCB0cnVzdCB0b28gbXVjaCBvZiB0aGF0 IGhhcmQgYWx1bWludW0gdHViaW5nLg0KPiA+IEkgZGlkbid0IGxpa2UgdGhlIHdheSBJIHNhdyBt aWNybyBjcmFja3Mgb24gc29tZSBiYXRjaGVzDQo+ID4gb2YgdHViaW5nIHdoZW4gSSBiZW50IGl0 LiAgU29tZSBvZiB0aGF0IHR1YmluZyB0aGF0DQo+ID4gSSBnb3QgZnJvbSBWYW4ncyB3YXMgcmVh bGx5IG5vdCBnb29kIHN0dWZmLiBJJ2QgYnV5IHRoZQ0KPiA+IHNhbWUgc3R1ZmYgYWdhaW4sIG9y IGdldCBzb21lIGZyb20gQUNTIGFuZCBpdCB3YXMNCj4gPiBiZXR0ZXIuICBCdXQgdWx0aW1hdGVs eSwgSSB0cnVzdCBhIHN0YWlubGVzcyBicmFpZGVkDQo+ID4gdGVmbG9uIGxpbmUgbXVjaCBiZXR0 ZXIgYWdhaW5zdCB3b3JrIGhhcmRlbmluZyBhbmQNCj4gPiBmYXRpZ3VlIGNyYWNraW5nLg0KPiA+ IA0KPiA+IFNvLCB0aGUgZGVhbCB3aXRoIGZ1ZWwgdmFwb3JzIHJlYWxseSBtaWdodCBiZSBqdXN0 DQo+ID4gaW5zdGFsbGluZyBhIHZhcG9yIHNlbnNvciBpZiB5b3UganVzdCB3YW50IHRvIGtub3cN Cj4gPiBhYm91dCB0aGUgdmFwb3JzLCBvciBhIGZpcmUgc3VwcHJlc3Npb24gc3lzdGVtIGluIHRo ZQ0KPiA+IHR1bm5lbCBpZiB5b3UgcmVhbGx5IHdhbnQgdG8gZ28gaGFyZGNvcmUgb24gaXQuIEJ1 dA0KPiA+IGNlcnRhaW5seSB0aGluayB0aHJvdWdoIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaW4gZGV0YWlsIGZpcnN0 Lg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IEFsc28sIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRoaXMuLi4ueW91IHNtZWxsIGZ1ZWwgaW4gdGhl IGNvY2twaXQgKGkNCj4gPiBoYXZlIGJlZm9yZSBvbiBvdGhlciBwbGFuZXMpLi4ud2hhdCBkbyB5 b3UgZG8/ICBBcHBhcmVudGx5DQo+ID4gdGhleSBsYW5kZWQgYW5kIHRheGlpZWQgaW4sIGFuZCB0 aGVuIGl0IGJsZXcuICBJZiBpdCB3ZXJlDQo+ID4gcmVhbGx5IGZ1ZWwgaW4gdGhlIGNvY2twaXQs IEkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGUgInByb3BlciIgdGhpbmcNCj4gPiB0byBkbyB3b3VsZCBiZSB0byBpbW1l ZGlhdGVseSBzaHV0IG9mZiBhbGwgZWxlY3RyaWNzLg0KPiA+IDEwMCUgb2YgdGhlbS4gIElmIHlv dSBoYXZlIG1hZ25ldG9zLCB5b3UgbWF5IGJlIGluIGx1Y2sNCj4gPiBhbmQgZXZlbiBiZSBhYmxl IHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIHN0aWxsIGtlZXBpbmcgdGhlIGVuZ2luZQ0KPiA+IHJ1bm5pbmcgdW50aWwg eW91J3JlIG9uIHRoZSBncm91bmQuIElmIG5vdCwgeW91IGhhdmUgdG8NCj4gPiBkZWNpZGUgaG93 IG11Y2ggcmlzayB5b3UnbGwgdGFrZS4gSSdkIHN0aWxsIGxlYXZlIG15DQo+ID4gbGlnaHRzcGVl ZCBvbiwgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGVyZSBzaG91bGRuJ3QgYmUgYW55IHNwYXJrDQo+ID4gaW5zaWRlIHRo ZSBjb2NrcGl0LiAgQnV0LCB5b3UgY2VydGFpbmx5IHdvdWxkbid0IHdhbnQgdG8NCj4gPiBsZWF2 ZSB0aGUgZnVlbCBwdW1wIG9uLiAgU29tZSBlbmdpbmVzIChub3QgbHljb21pbmdzKQ0KPiA+IHdv bid0IHJ1biB3aXRob3V0IGZ1ZWwgcHVtcHMgb24uICBCdXQgYW55d2F5LCB0aGUgb3V0Y29tZQ0K PiA+IG1pZ2h0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBkaWZmZXJlbnQgaWYgb24gc2hvcnQgZmluYWwsIHRoZXkgcHVs bGVkDQo+ID4gdGhlIG1peHR1cmUgb2ZmLCBhbmQgaGl0IHRoZSBtYXN0ZXIgb2ZmLCBhbmQganVz dA0KPiA+IGdsaWRlZCBkb3duIGFuZCByb2xsZWQgb2ZmIHRoZSBydW53YXksIGNhbGxpbmcgdGhl DQo+ID4gdG93ZXIvdHJ1Y2tzL29yIHdoYXRldmVyLiAgVGF4aWluZyBpbiBwcm9iYWJseSB3YXNu J3QgYQ0KPiA+IGdvb2QgaWRlYS4gIFRoaXMgaXMgbm90IHRvIGJlIGNyaXRpY2FsIG9mIFRvZGQs IGJlY2F1c2UNCj4gPiBJJ20gc3VyZSBoZSBjZXJ0YWlubHkgd2FzIHRyeWluZyB0byBkbyB0aGUg cmlnaHQgdGhpbmcuDQo+ID4gSXQncyBqdXN0IHRvIHBvaW50IG91dCB0aGF0IHRoZSBvdXRjb21l IGNhbiBjaGFuZ2UgcHJldHR5DQo+ID4gZWFzaWx5IGJhc2VkIG9uIGJvdGggdGhlIHNpdHVhdGlv biBhbmQgdGhlIHJlYWN0aW9uIHRvIGl0Lg0KPiA+IFdpdGggbm8gbWFzdGVyIG9uLCBhbmQganVz dCB0b3VjaGRvd24gdG8gZnVsbCBzdG9wLCB0aGVuDQo+ID4gZG9vcnMgb3BlbiwgaXQgY291bGQg aGF2ZSBiZWVuIGEgd2hvbGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IHRoaW5nLg0KPiA+IE9yLCBtYXliZSBzd2l0Y2hp bmcgb2ZmIHRoZSBtYXN0ZXIgd291bGQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIHRoZQ0KPiA+IHNwYXJrIHRoYXQgYmxl dyB0aGUgd2hvbGUgdGhpbmcgb2ZmLiAgRm9vZCBmb3IgdGhvdWdodC4NCj4gPiANCj4gPiBPbmUg dGlkYml0IHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgcmVhbGx5IGludGVyZXN0aW5nIGlzIHRoaXMuLi4uDQo+ID4g V2FzIHRoZSB0dW5uZWwgYmxvd24gYXBhcnQgb3IgYmxvd24gb3V0IGluIGFueSB3YXk/DQo+ID4g VGhpcyB3b3VsZCBtYWtlIGl0IGVhc3kgdG8gdGVsbCBpZiB0aGUgZXhwbG9zaW9uIGhhcHBlbmVk DQo+ID4gaW4gdGhlIHR1bm5lbCBvciBpbiB0aGUgY2FiaW4uICBBIHJlYWwgd2lsZCBhJHMgZ3Vl c3MNCj4gPiB3b3VsZCBiZSB0aGUgY29ja3BpdCwgYmVjYXVzZSBpZiB0aGUgdHVubmVsIHdvdWxk DQo+ID4gaGF2ZSBibG93IGFwYXJ0LCBJJ2QgdGhpbmsgaXQgd291bGQgaGF2ZSBjYXVzZWQNCj4g PiBzb21lIHNlcmlvdXMgc2hyYXBuZWwgaW5qdXJpZXMuICBTbyBpZiBpdCB3ZXJlIGp1c3QNCj4g PiBjb2NrcGl0IGZ1bWVzLCB3b3VsZCBhIHR1bm5lbCBtb3VudGVkIHZhcG9yIHNlbnNvcg0KPiA+ IGhhdmUgaGVscGVkPw0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IFRoZSBwb3N0IGFjY2lkZW50IHF1ZXN0aW9ucyBjYW4g cmVhbGx5IHRlYWNoIGEgbG90IGFuZA0KPiA+IG1ha2UgeW91IHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IGl0LCBjYW4n dCBpdD8gIEknbSBqdXN0IGdsYWQgVG9kZA0KPiA+IGFuZCBoaXMgZGF1Z2h0ZXIgYXJlIGdvaW5n IHRvIGJlIE9LLiAgQnV0IG1heWJlIGlmIG5vdGhpbmcNCj4gPiBlbHNlIGNvbWVzIG9mIGl0LCB0 aGUgb25lIG9idmlvdXMgdGhpbmcgY2FuIGJlIGxlYXJuZWQgYnkNCj4gPiBvdGhlcnMuLi4uZ2V0 IG9uIHRoZSBncm91bmQsIGFuZCByZW1vdmUgYWxsIGVsZWN0cmljaXR5LA0KPiA+IGltbWVkaWF0 ZWx5Li4udGhlbiBnZXQgdGhlIGRvb3Igb3BlbiBhbmQgb3V0IG9mIHRoZSBwbGFuZS4NCj4gPiAN Cj4gPiBJdCB3YXMgYWxzbyBpbnRlcmVzdGluZyB0byBub3RlIGhpcyB0YWtlIG9uIFZhbidzIGRv b3IgbGF0Y2gNCj4gPiBtb2QuICBJIGd1ZXNzIEkgdGVuZCB0byBhZ3JlZS4uLmlmIHlvdSdyZSBp biBhIHBhbmljIHRyeWluZw0KPiA+IHRvIGdldCBvdXQsIG9yIGluIGEgbm9uLXBpbG90cyBwZXJz cGVjdGl2ZSwgc2VlIGl0IGZyb20NCj4gPiBoaXMgZGF1Z2h0ZXJzIGV5ZXMuLi4uaGF2aW5nIG9u ZSBtb3JlIGxhdGNoIHRvIGxpZnQgbWF5DQo+ID4gbm90IGJlIHRoZSBpZGVhbCBzaXR1YXRpb24u ICBTb21ldGhpbmcgbW9yZSBhdXRvbWF0aWMNCj4gPiBsaWtlIFNlYW4ncyBsYXRjaGVzIG1pZ2h0 IGJlIGZhciBuaWNlciBpbiBzdWNoIGEgc2l0dWF0aW9uLg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IFRpbSBPbHNvbiAt IFJWLTEwIE4xMDRDRA0KPiA+IGRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gU3RlaW4g QnJ1Y2ggd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4+IEhpIEd1eXMsDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gTm90 IHRyeWluZyB0byBmbGFtZSBhbnlvbmUgaGVyZSBvciBiZSBuZWdhdGl2ZSwgYnV0IGp1c3QgdG8g cGxheSBhIGJpdCANCj4gPj4gb2YgZGV2aWxzIGFkdm9jYXRlLiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgc29tZSBnb29k IGlkZWFzIGFuZCBtZXRob2RvbG9naWVzIGJlaW5nIA0KPiA+PiBkaXNjdXNzZWQsIGJ1dCBJ4oCZ ZCBjYXV0aW9uIHBlb3BsZSBhZ2FpbnN0IGNvbXBsaWNhdGluZyB0aGUgYWlyY3JhZnQgDQo+ID4+ IHRyeWluZyB0byBjcmVhdGUgYSBzb2x1dGlvbiB0byBhIHByb2JsZW0gd2UgZG9u4oCZdCBldmVu IGtub3cgZXhpc3RzLiAgDQo+ID4+IEZpcnN0bHksIHdlIGRvbuKAmXQga25vdyB3aGF0IGhhcHBl bmVkIHRvIFRvZGTigJlzIGFpcnBsYW5lIG90aGVyIHRoYW4gDQo+ID4+IHB1cmUgY29uamVjdHVy ZSBhdCB0aGlzIHBvaW50LiBTZWNvbmQsIGl0IHRha2VzIGEgTE9UIG1vcmUgdGhhbiBhIA0KPiA+ PiBsaXR0bGUgdmFwb3Igb3IgZnVtZXMgb3IgZnVlbCBzbWVsbCBpbiBhaXJwbGFuZXMgdG8gY2F1 c2UgYSBmaXJlIGluIA0KPiA+PiB0aGUgY29ja3BpdC4gIEFueW9uZSB3aG/igJlzIGJlZW4gYXJv dW5kIG9sZCBhaXJwbGFuZXMga25vd3MgYWJvdXQgbGVha3kgDQo+ID4+IG1hbnVhbCBwcmltZXJz LCBsZWFreSB0YW5rcywgZXRjLi4gYW5kIGhpc3Rvcnkgc2hvd3MgdGhhdCB5b3UgY2FuIGhhdmUg DQo+ID4+IHF1aXRlIGEgbG90IG9mIGZ1ZWwgYXJvdW5kIGJlZm9yZSBpdCBmbGFzaGVzIG9mZi4g IE9mIGNvdXJzZSByYXcgZnVlbCANCj4gPj4gYmVpbmcgcHVtcGVkIGludG8gYSBwbGFuZSBhbmQg b250byBvciBuZWFyIGFuIGlnbml0aW9uIHNvdXJjZSBpcyBhIA0KPiA+PiBkaXNhc3RlciB3YWl0 aW5nIHRvIGhhcHBlbiwgYnV0IGluIHRoYXQgY2FzZSBhIHZhcG9yIHNlbnNvciB3aWxsIG9ubHkg DQo+ID4+IHNsaWdodGx5IGdpdmUgeW91IGEgc2hvcnQgbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGJlZm9yZSBzb21l dGhpbmcgaGFwcGVucy4gIEkgDQo+ID4+IGd1ZXNzIEnigJlkIGxvb2sgYXQgdGhpcyB0aGlzIHdh eS4gIEl04oCZcyBsaWtlIGEgbG90IG9mIHRoaW5ncyB3aXRoIHRoZXNlIA0KPiA+PiBSVuKAmXMu IElmIHlvdSBjb25jZW50cmF0ZSB5b3VyIHRpbWUgb24gYnVpbGRpbmcgdGhlIHBsYW5lIHNhZmV0 eSwgDQo+ID4+IGJ1aWxkaW5nIGl0IHBlciBWYW7igJlzIHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucyBhbmQgb3Bl cmF0aW5nIGl0IHBlciANCj4gPj4gcmVjb21tZW5kYXRpb25zLCB0aGUgbGlrZWx5aG9vZCBvZiBm YWlsdXJlcyBpcyB2ZXJ5IGxvdy4gIFRoZXJlIGFyZSANCj4gPj4gbWFueSB0aG91c2FuZHMgb2Yg UlbigJlzIGZseWluZyBhbmQgdGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgZmlyc3QgdGltZSBJ4oCZbSBhd2FyZSBvZiAN Cj4gPj4gb25lIHRoYXQgYnVyc3QgaW50byBmbGFtZXMgb24gdGhlIGdyb3VuZCAodGhlcmUgbWF5 IGJlIGFuZCBwcm9iYWJseSANCj4gPj4gYXJlIG90aGVycyksIGJ1dCBldmVuIGlmIHRoYXQgaXMg dGhlIGNhc2UgSeKAmWxsIGJldCBtYW55IGNhbiBiZSB0cmFjZWQgDQo+ID4+IHRvIGEgcm9vdCBj YXVzZSBvdGhlciB0aGFuIHNwb250YW5lb3VzIGNvbWJ1c3Rpb24uICBXZSBrbm93IERvb3JzIHdp bGwgDQo+ID4+IGNvbWUgb2ZmIGlmIG5vdCBsYXRjaGVkL2J1aWx0IHByb3Blcmx5LiAgV2Uga25v dyBub3Nld2hlZWxzIHdpbGwgZmFsbCANCj4gPj4gb2ZmIGlmIG5vdCBpbnN0YWxsZWQgcHJvcGVy bHkuIFRoaXMgcGxhbmUgd2FzIHRoZSBvbmx5IGFpcndvcnRoeSANCj4gPj4gZXhhbXBsZSBvZiBh biBSVi0xMCB3aXRoIGEgVmVzdGEgVjggaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uIHNvIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhIExPVCBv ZiANCj4gPj4gdmFyaWFibGVzIHRvIHRha2UgaW50byBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9uIG90aGVyIHRoYW4g dHJlYXRpbmcgaXQgbGlrZSBhIA0KPiA+PiBzdG9jayBSVjEwLg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgDQo+ID4+ DQo+ID4+IEFueXdheSwgSeKAmW0gbm90IGFkdm9jYXRpbmcgdGhhdCB5b3UgZG8gbm90aGluZyBh bmQgaW4gZmFjdCBpbm5vdmF0aW9uIA0KPiA+PiBpcyBhIGdvb2QgdGhpbmcuIEnigJlkIGp1c3Qg Y2F1dGlvbiB0aGUgZ2VuZXJhbGl6ZWQgZGVzaWduIG9mIHlldCANCj4gPj4gYW5vdGhlciBzeXN0 ZW0gdG8gaW5zdGFsbCBpbiB0aGUgYWlycGxhbmUgdGhhdCBhdCBiZXN0IG1heSBnaXZlIHlvdSAN Cj4gPj4gbW9yZSBwZWFjZSBvZiBtaW5kIHRoYW4gYWN0dWFsIHNhZmV0eS4gIElmIHRoZXJlIHdl cmUgYSBub3RlZCBwcm9ibGVtIA0KPiA+PiB0aGF0IGlzIHZlcmlmaWVkLCB0aGVuIHRoYXTigJlz IGEgZGlmZmVyZW50IHN0b3J5LiAgQnV0LCBpbiB0aGlzIGNhc2Ugd2UgDQo+ID4+IGRvbuKAmXQg eWV0IGV2ZW4ga25vdyB3aGF0IHRoZSBjYXVzZSBvZiB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSB3YXPigKZmb3IgYWxs IHdlIGtub3cgDQo+ID4+IGEgaG9zZS9mdWVsIGxpbmUgbWF5IGhhdmUganVzdCBjb21lIG9mZiBh bmQgYmVlbiAgcG91cmluZyBmdWVsIGludG8gDQo+ID4+IHRoZSBwbGFuZS4gSW4gdGhhdCBjYXNl IG5vdCBtdWNoIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgY2hhbmdlZCBldmVuIHdpdGggYSBuZXcgDQo+ID4+IHN5c3Rl bSB0byBtb25pdG9yIGl0LiAgU2VhbGluZyB1cCB0aGUgZmxhcCBtb3RvciBpcyBvZiBsaXR0bGUg dXNlIA0KPiA+PiAoSU1ITykgYmVjYXVzZSB5b3Ugc3RpbGwgaGF2ZSBhIHBsYW5lIGxvYWRlZCB3 aXRoIGF2aW9uaWNzIChmYW5zLCANCj4gPj4gcmVsYXlzLCBzd2l0Y2hlcywgZXRjLi4pIHRoYXQg YWxsIGNyZWF0ZSBtaW51dGUgc3BhcmtzIG9yIGlnbml0aW9uIA0KPiA+PiBzb3VyY2VzLiAgVGhl IHBsYW5lIGl0c2VsZiBpcyBmdWxsIG9mIHN0YXRpYyBlbGVjdHJpY2l0eSwgc28gb24gYW5kIHNv IA0KPiA+PiBmb3J0aC4gIFlvdeKAmWQgbmVlZCB0byB3ZWFyIEVTRCBjbG90aGluZywgRVNUIGJy YWNlbGV0cyBncm91bmRlZCB0byB0aGUgDQo+ID4+IGFpcnBsYW5lLCBleHBsb3Npb24gcHJvb2Yg ZmFucyBpbiBhbGwgdGhlIGF2aW9uaWNzLCBzZWFsZWQgc3dpdGNoZXMgDQo+ID4+IHRoYXQgZG9u 4oCZdCBoYXZlIGFueSBzcGFya3MsIGV0Yy4uIHdoaWNoIGlzIGp1c3Qgbm90IHByYWN0aWNhbC4N Cj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gIA0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiBJbiB0aGUgZW5kIEl04oCZcyBsaWtlIEkgc2FpZCwg SeKAmW0ganVzdCBwbGF5aW5nIGRldmlscyBhZHZvY2F0ZSBhIGxpdHRsZSANCj4gPj4gYml0LiAg SSB3b3VsZCBob3dldmVyIHJlY29tbWVuZCB3ZSB3YWl0IGFuZCBzZWUgd2hhdCB0aGUgcHJvYmxl bSB3YXMgDQo+ID4+IGJlZm9yZSB3ZSBkZXNpZ24gc3lzdGVtcyBhcm91bmQgaXQuDQo+ID4+DQo+ ID4+ICANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gTXkgMiBjZW50cyBhcyB1c3VhbCENCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gIA0KPiA+ Pg0KPiA+PiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IFN0ZWluDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICANCj4gPj4NCj4g Pj4gIA0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKkZyb206KiBvd25l ci1ydjEwLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gDQo+ID4+IFttYWlsdG86b3duZXItcnYx MC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tXSAqT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mICpEYW5ueSBSaWdncw0K PiA+PiAqU2VudDoqIE1vbmRheSwgTWF5IDEwLCAyMDEwIDg6NTMgQU0NCj4gPj4gKlRvOiogcnYx MC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCj4gPj4gKlN1YmplY3Q6KiBSRTogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBSVi0x MCBGaXJlDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gR29vZ2xlICJnYXMgdmFwb3Igc2Vuc29y cyIgYW5kIHlvdSB3aWxsIGdldCBudW1lcm91cyBzaXRlcy4gQSByZW1vdGUgDQo+ID4+IHNlbnNv ciB3b3VsZCBiZSBuZWNlc3NhcnkgZm9yIHRoZSB0dW5uZWwuIFdlc3QgTWFyaW5lIGhhcyBvbmUg d2l0aCANCj4gPj4gcmVtb3RlIGZvciBhYm91dCAkMTU1Lg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAtLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gRnJvbTogcnZidWlsZGVyQHNhdXNlbi5uZXQNCj4gPj4gVG86IHJ2 MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQo+ID4+IERhdGU6IE1vbiwgMTAgTWF5IDIwMTAgMDg6MDM6 MzEgLTA1MDANCj4gPj4gU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFJWMTAtTGlzdDogUlYtMTAgRmlyZQ0KPiA+Pg0K PiA+PiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0cm91ZHNhZmV0eS5jb20vSGFsb25TeXN0ZW1zLmh0bWwNCj4gPj4N Cj4gPj4gIA0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiBhbHNvDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gaHR0cDov L3d3dy5zYWZlY3JhZnQuY29tL2F2aWF0aW9uLmFzcA0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ IE1pY2hhZWwNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gIA0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAqRnJvbToqIG93bmVyLXJ2MTAtbGlz dC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSANCj4gPj4gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1ydjEwLWxpc3Qtc2Vy dmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21dICpPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgKkRhdmlkIA0KPiA+PiBNY05laWxsDQo+ ID4+ICpTZW50OiogU3VuZGF5LCBNYXkgMDksIDIwMTAgMTE6MjYgUE0NCj4gPj4gKlRvOiogcnYx MC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCj4gPj4gKlN1YmplY3Q6KiBSZTogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBSVi0x MCBGaXJlDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gSSB3aWxsIHVzZSBzdGFuZGFyZCBBTiBm aXR0aW5ncyBhbmQgYWx1bWluaXVtIHR1YmluZyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZnJvbSANCj4gPj4gU3BydWNl LiBUaGUgZmlyZSBib3R0bGUgaXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGZyb20gU3Ryb3VkIEZpcmUgaW4gb2tsYWhv bWEgY2l0eSANCj4gPj4gOyBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhleSBoYXZlIGEgd2Vic2l0ZS4gbWluZSBpcyBh IDE1IHBvdW5kIGJvdHRsZSBhbmQgc3ByYXlzIA0KPiA+PiBvdmVyIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUsIGFuZCBi ZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBmaXJld2FsbCBhbmQgYWZ0IGJhZmZsaW5nOyBJIHdpbGwgYWRkIA0KPiA+PiBh IGxpbmUgdG8gdGhlIHR1bm5lbC4gY29zdCBvZiB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIHdhcyBhYm91dCAkMjUwLiBJ IGluc3RhbGxlZCANCj4gPj4gdGhpcyBpbiB0aGUgMTAgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCB3YXMgYW4gb3B0aW9u IG9uIHRoZSBHbGFzdGFyIEkgYnVpbHQgYW5kIGl0IA0KPiA+PiBzZWVtZWQgbGlrZSBhIGdvb2Qg aWRlYSBvbiB0aGUgMTAuIEkgZG9uJ3QgbGlrZSB0aGUgdGhvdWdodCBvZiANCj4gPj4gYnVybmlu Zy4gSSBoYXZlIHBpY3R1cmVzIG9mIHRoZSBpbnN0YWxsIGFuZCBoYXZlIHBvc3RlZCB0aGVtIGlu IHRoZSANCj4gPj4gcGFzdCAuIEkgd291bGQgaW5jbHVkZSBvbmUgbm93IGJ1dCB0aGV5IGFyZSBv biBhbm90aGVyIGNvbXB1dGVyLg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2Fn ZSAtLS0tLQ0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgKkZyb206KiBEYW5ueSBSaWdncyA8bWFpbHRvOmpkcmln Z3M0OUBtc24uY29tPg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgKlRvOiogcnYxMC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20gPG1haWx0bzpydjEwLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICpTZW50 OiogU3VuZGF5LCBNYXkgMDksIDIwMTAgODoyOSBQTQ0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgKlN1YmplY3Q6 KiBSRTogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBSVi0xMCBGaXJlDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICANCj4gPj4gICAgIEdv b2QgaWRlYSEgQW55IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zIGFib3V0IHdoZXJlIHRvIGdldCBsaW5lIGFuZCBmaXR0 aW5ncyBmb3INCj4gPj4gICAgIHRoaXM/DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICANCj4gPj4gLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICBGcm9tOiBkbG00NjAwN0Bjb3gubmV0IDxtYWlsdG86ZGxt NDYwMDdAY294Lm5ldD4NCj4gPj4gICAgIFRvOiBydjEwLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSA8bWFp bHRvOnJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KPiA+PiAgICAgU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFJWMTAt TGlzdDogUlYtMTAgRmlyZQ0KPiA+PiAgICAgRGF0ZTogU3VuLCA5IE1heSAyMDEwIDE5OjUzOjA1 IC0wNzAwDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICBUaGUgZW5naW5lIHdhcyAoPykgYW4gYXV0b21vdGl2ZSBW OCBzbyBpdCBpcyB1bmtub3duIHdoYXQgdGhlDQo+ID4+ICAgICBjb21wb25lbnRzIG9mIHRoZSB0 dW5uZWwgYXJlLiBPbmUgY291bGQgZXhwZWN0IHRoYXQgdGhlIGZsYXAgbW90b3INCj4gPj4gICAg IHdhcyB0aGUgVmFucyBtb3Rvci5JIGFtIGdvaW5nIHRvIHBsdW1iIGEgc2hvdCBvZiBIYWxvbiB0 byB0aGUNCj4gPj4gICAgIHR1bm5lbC4gQWxzbyBhbHdheXMgcnVuIGEgZ29vZCB0ZXN0IHdoZW4g Y2xlYW5pbmcgdGhlIGZ1ZWwgZmlsdGVyOw0KPiA+PiAgICAgdXNlIGZ1ZWwgbHViZSBvbiB0aGUg Zml0dGluZ3MuDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KPiA+ Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgICpGcm9tOiogRGFubnkgUmlnZ3MgPG1haWx0bzpqZHJpZ2dzNDlAbXNu LmNvbT4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICAqVG86KiBydjEwLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSA8 bWFpbHRvOnJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgICpTZW50 OiogU3VuZGF5LCBNYXkgMDksIDIwMTAgNjoyMCBQTQ0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgICpTdWJq ZWN0OiogUkU6IFJWMTAtTGlzdDogUlYtMTAgRmlyZQ0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIA0KPiA+ PiAgICAgICAgIFRoZSBmbGFwIG1vdG9yIGhhcyBmb3VyIGhvbGVzIHZlbnRpbmcgdGhlIGluc2lk ZS4gVGhlIEFlcm9mbG93DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgYW5kIEFuZGFpciBwdW1wcyBhcmUgc2VhbGVk IGJ5IHRoZSBsb29rcyBvZiB0aGVtLg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIA0KPiA+PiAtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBGcm9tOiBkYXZlLnNheWxvci5haXJjcmFmdGVy c0BnbWFpbC5jb20NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICA8bWFpbHRvOmRhdmUuc2F5bG9yLmFpcmNyYWZ0ZXJz QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBEYXRlOiBTdW4sIDkgTWF5IDIwMTAgMDc6NTc6NTAg LTA3MDANCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBSVi0xMCBGaXJlDQo+ ID4+ICAgICAgICAgVG86IHJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIDxtYWlsdG86cnYxMC1saXN0 QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgVGhlIGxhdGVzdCBvbiBWQUYgc2F5 cyB0aGV5IHNob3VsZCBib3RoIGJlIE9LLg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIEkgcHV0IGEgY291 cGxlIGRyYWluIGhvbGVzIGluIHRoZSB0dW5uZWwganVzdCBmb3J3YXJkIG9mIHRoZQ0KPiA+PiAg ICAgICAgIHNwYXIgc28gYXQgbGVhc3QgYSBzbWFsbCBsZWFrIHdvdWxkbid0IHB1ZGRsZS4NCj4g Pj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBEYXZlIFNheWxvcg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIEFpckNyYWZ0ZXJzIExM Qw0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIDE0MCBBdmlhdGlvbiBXYXkNCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBXYXRzb252aWxs ZSwgQ0EgOTUwNzYNCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICA4MzEtNzIyLTkxNDEgU2hvcA0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAg IDgzMS03NTAtMDI4NCBDZWxsDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgT24gU2F0LCBNYXkgOCwgMjAx MCBhdCA5OjAwIFBNLCBQZXJyeSwgUGhpbA0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIDxQaGlsLlBlcnJ5QG5ldGFw cC5jb20gPG1haWx0bzpQaGlsLlBlcnJ5QG5ldGFwcC5jb20+PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4g ICAgICAgICAtLT4gUlYxMC1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVkIGJ5OiAiUGVycnksIFBoaWwiDQo+ ID4+ICAgICAgICAgPFBoaWwuUGVycnlAbmV0YXBwLmNvbSA8bWFpbHRvOlBoaWwuUGVycnlAbmV0 YXBwLmNvbT4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgSSd2ZSBiZWVuIHdhdGNoaW5nIHRoYXQgdG9v Li4uICBTb3VuZHMgbGlrZSBoZSdzIGJ1cm5lZCBidXQgb2theS4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAg ICBOb3QgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHNwZWN1bGF0ZSwgYnV0IHRoaXMgZXZlbnQgY2F1c2VkIG1lIHRvIHRo aW5rIA0KPiA+PiB0aHJvdWdoIGENCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBjb3VwbGUgb2YgdG9waWNzLg0KPiA+ Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIEFueW9uZSBrbm93IGlmIHRoZSBmdWVsIGJvb3N0IHB1bXAgYW5kIGZs YXAgbW90b3JzIGFyZSBleHBsb3Npb24NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICByZXNpc3RhbnQ/ICBJZiBub3Qs IHRoZXkgcHJvYmFibHkgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHNpbmNlIHRoZXJlIGFyZQ0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIHNl dmVyYWwgZnVlbA0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIGxpbmVzIHRoYXQgc2hhcmUgdGhlIHNhbWUgZW5jbG9z ZWQgYWlyc3BhY2UgYXMgYm90aCBlbGVjdHJpY2FsDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgaXRlbXMuDQo+ID4+ DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgSSB3YXMgdGhpbmtpbmcgdGhpcyB0aHJvdWdoIGVhcmxpZXIgdGhpcyBt b3JuaW5nIGFuZCBub3cgSSANCj4gPj4gdGhpbmsgdGhlDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgUlYtMTAgUE9I IHNob3VsZCBzYXkgYW55IHNtZWxsIG9mIGZ1ZWwgaW4gdGhlIGNhYmluIHNob3VsZA0KPiA+PiAg ICAgICAgIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgbWVhbiBubyBmbGFwcyBhbmQgbm8gYm9v c3QgcHVtcC4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBGb3IgdGhlIHJlY29yZCwgSSBkb24ndCBldmVu IGtub3cgaWYgaGUgd2FzIG9wZXJhdGluZyBlaXRoZXIuICANCj4gPj4gSnVzdA0KPiA+PiAgICAg ICAgIHRoaW5raW5nIHRocm91Z2ggYSBnb3RjaGEgc2NlbmFyaW8gZm9yIHRoZSBiZW5lZml0IG9m IHRoZSBncm91cC4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBQaGlsDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gPj4gICAgICAg ICBGcm9tOiBUaW0gT2xzb24gW21haWx0bzpUaW1AbXlydjEwLmNvbSA8bWFpbHRvOlRpbUBteXJ2 MTAuY29tPl0NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBTZW50OiBTYXR1cmRheSwgTWF5IDA4LCAyMDEwIDEwOjI5 IFBNDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgVG86IHJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIDxtYWlsdG86cnYx MC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgU3ViamVjdDogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBS Vi0xMCBGaXJlDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgLS0+IFJWMTAtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3Rl ZCBieTogVGltIE9sc29uIDxUaW1AbXlydjEwLmNvbQ0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIDxtYWlsdG86VGlt QG15cnYxMC5jb20+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIEp1c3QgY2F1Z2h0IHRoaXMgb24gVkFG Li4uDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy52YW5zYWlyZm9yY2UuY29tL2NvbW11bml0eS9z aG93dGhyZWFkLnBocD90PTU3NzE1DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgV291bGQgYmUgbmljZSB0 byBoZWFyIHRoYXQgaGUncyByZWFsbHkgb2ssIGlmIGFueW9uZQ0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIGtub3dz IGhvdyBiYWQgb2ZmIHRoZXkgd2VyZS4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICAtLQ0KPiA+PiAgICAg ICAgIFRpbSBPbHNvbiAtIFJWLTEwIE4xMDRDRA0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIGRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZl DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgPT09PT09 PT09PT0NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1JWMTAtTGlzdA0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgID09PT09PT09PT09DQo+ID4+ICAg ICAgICAgaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgPT09PT09PT09 PT0NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICBsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICA9Il9ibGFuayI+ aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgID09PT09 PT09PT09DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgDQo+ID4+ICpo dHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdHd3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1 dGlvbiI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiogDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgDQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgDQo+ID4+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPiA+ Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgICpUaGUgTmV3IEJ1c3kgaXMgbm90IHRoZSBvbGQgYnVzeS4gU2VhcmNo LCBjaGF0IGFuZCBlLW1haWwgZnJvbQ0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIHlvdXIgaW5ib3guIEdldCBzdGFy dGVkLg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAgIA0KPiA+PiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy53aW5kb3dzbGl2ZS5jb20vY2Ft cGFpZ24vdGhlbmV3YnVzeT9vY2lkPVBJRDI4MzI2OjpUOldMTVRBR0w6T046V0w6ZW4tVVM6V01f SE1QOjA0MjAxMF8zPiANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICAgICAqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAg Kg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgICAg IA0KPiA+PiBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1JWMTAtTGlz dCI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9SVjEwLUxpc3QgDQo+ID4+DQo+ ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICAgICAgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tIj5odHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4NCj4g Pj4gICAgICAgICANCj4gPj4gaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1 dGlvbiI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2MqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICAgICANCj4gPj4g Kmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJp YnV0aW9uIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uKiANCj4gPj4NCj4g Pj4NCj4gPj4gICAgIA0KPiA+PiAgICAgDQo+ID4+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+ PiAgICAgVGhlIE5ldyBCdXN5IGlzIG5vdCB0aGUgdG9vIGJ1c3kuIENvbWJpbmUgYWxsIHlvdXIg ZS1tYWlsIGFjY291bnRzDQo+ID4+ICAgICB3aXRoIEhvdG1haWwuIEdldCBidXN5Lg0KPiA+PiAg ICAgDQo+ID4+IDxodHRwOi8vd3d3LndpbmRvd3NsaXZlLmNvbS9jYW1wYWlnbi90aGVuZXdidXN5 P3RpbGU9bXVsdGlhY2NvdW50Jm9jaWQ9UElEMjgzMjY6OlQ6V0xNVEFHTDpPTjpXTDplbi1VUzpX TV9ITVA6MDQyMDEwXzQ+IA0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAgICAgKiAqDQo+ID4+DQo+ ID4+ICAgICAqICoNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgIA0KPiA+PiAqaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRy b25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9SVjEwLUxpc3QiPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9O YXZpZ2F0b3I/UlYxMC1MaXN0KiANCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gICAgICpocmVmPSJodHRwOi8v Zm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSoNCj4gPj4N Cj4gPj4gICAgIA0KPiA+PiAqaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1 dGlvbiI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2MqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICogKg0KPiA+Pg0K PiA+PiAqICoNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/ UlYxMC1MaXN0Kg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAqaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tKg0KPiA+ Pg0KPiA+PiAqaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbioNCj4gPj4NCj4g Pj4gKiAqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICpodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdHd3dy5t YXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRy aWJ1dGlvbiogDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICogKg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAqDQo+ID4+IC0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPiA+PiAqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICpIb3RtYWlsIGlzIHJlZGVmaW5pbmcgYnVz eSB3aXRoIHRvb2xzIGZvciB0aGUgTmV3IEJ1c3kuIEdldCBtb3JlIGZyb20gDQo+ID4+IHlvdXIg aW5ib3guIFNlZSBob3cuIA0KPiA+PiA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy53aW5kb3dzbGl2ZS5jb20vY2FtcGFp Z24vdGhlbmV3YnVzeT9vY2lkPVBJRDI4MzI2OjpUOldMTVRBR0w6T046V0w6ZW4tVVM6V01fSE1Q OjA0MjAxMF8yPiANCj4gPj4gKg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAqICoNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKiAqDQo+ID4+ DQo+ID4+ICoqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICoqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICoqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICoqDQo+ ID4+DQo+ID4+ICoqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICoqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICpodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1JWMTAtTGlzdCoNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKioNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4g KioNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKioNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bSoNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKioNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKioNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKioNCj4gPj4NCj4g Pj4gKioNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24q DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICoqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ICogKg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAqDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+ DQo+ID4+ICoNCj4gPiANCj4gPiANCj4gPiANCj4gPiANCj4gPiANCj4gPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IA0KPg0KDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUgUlYxMC1MaXN0IEVtYWls IEZvcnVtIC0NCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5hdmlnYXRvciB0 byBicm93c2UNCl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vi c2NyaXB0aW9uLA0KXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwg Q2hhdCwgRkFRLA0KXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9yZToNCl8tPQ0KXy09 ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UlYxMC1MaXN0DQpfLT0N Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIE1BVFJPTklDUyBXRUIgRk9SVU1TIC0NCl8tPSBT YW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQ0KXy09 DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpfLT0NCl8tPT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0g ICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtDQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlv dSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0 cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: May 10, 2010
Subject: RV-10 Fire
Yep, that was kinda my thought. For less than $20 you get a CO sensor th at also doubles as a fuel vapor sensor and only requires an idiot light or other flag notification. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. I'm still u p in the air on a plumbed in extinguisher but it's like lots of other thing s in aviation that you never plan to use, you don't need it until you need it. It basically follows the three most useless things to a pilot rule. I 'll probably wait with a plumbed in extinguisher but the funny thing is the time I would most likely need it is during fly off. As always Stein has s ome good points but if we all built "per Vans recommendations, we would all have minimal instruments and Stein's business would drop like a stone. :D Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire I can't see how a vapor sensor and indicator light would be a Darwin award winner or a modification of significance in any way. We already install CO vapor sensors to protect against something unseen, this is no different. If I'm wrong, please correct me or explain why my thinking is messed up be cause I just don't see anything wrong with it. Some could argue that it's not necessary and their perspective would be cor rect too. After all, we've only had one plane explode on us and we don't e ven know the cause of it. Any changes could be perceived as a knee-jerk re action; and at this point they are. I would think twice about shooting Halon into the tunnel though. In an exp losion it wouldn't help (except for a post-explosion fire) and I prefer to keep that stuff outside the cabin. Phil From: ddddsp1(at)juno.com [mailto:ddddsp1(at)juno.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire Come on Stein.......................you take all the fun out of reading the se post when you add COMMON SENSE into the mix! Have to share this recent experience to show how even builders who seek hel p from other builders can be a danger to themselves. An RV10 builder had shared with me how he had just completed fitting his doors and was ver y proud of how well they fit. He then put on the Vans stock grey door seal ..........and now the doors required several pounds of force to get them sh ut. BTW he did install the new Safety latch per Vans. Next fix was to har den the door to the rear and put a handle there so he could pull the door i n at the front and rear. After all was said and done the doors shut ...... ......but the seal deformed the door and it was not flush to the canopy. So he asks me how did we get our doors to fit and close so well? When I s howed him the COMMON SENSE approach to sealing doors on the RV10 without re quiring any pressure to close them..............he chuckled and said....... ...That will not work on my plane! LOL And we wonder how doors come off t hese planes? The point I am making and what I think Stein is making is.. ..............a knee jerk reaction and over modifying a proven design can b e more dangerous then a little COMMON SENSE. Until that happens the list will continue to be a great source of informati on and entertainment unless Stein stops it with his Devils Advocate stuff.. ...........lol Dean ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39st04vuc>Awesome PennyStocks.com<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4be82ef49c74384c39 st04vuc> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2010
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire
>>If you drill holes in the belly, you may prevent puddling, but you may let IN other things too, depending on the air pressure, and there is hot exhaust just in front of those holes, if you do get fuel leaking out.<< Yep, I thought about exhaust coming in. I also considered the amount of clean air going by (lots) and that it would have to turn 90 degrees. I don't know that it couldn't happen but we've got almost 600 hours and nobody's been poisoned yet (although it may explain a few things, hehe). That said, a CO detector is on my list. Or maybe a canary. As far as the exhaust being an ignition source, the holes are about three feet aft of the pipes. I suppose it could ignite if flame shot out with a lot of fuel present. But I just didn't like the idea of very much fuel gathering in the tunnel with no place to go so I'll take my chances. Besides, I saved some weight! Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire
From: "lbgjb10" <lbgjb(at)gnt.net>
Date: May 10, 2010
very interesting thread and obviously concern for all of us that fly -10. What about a hole in the tunnel and then have a backward fitting like a fuel vent that would 'venturi' out any fumes. it would remove any significant fuel leak and vapors as well. sure glad that father and daughter ended up with minimal medical problems compared to what could have happened. larry -------- Larry and Gayle N104LG Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297329#297329 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire
From: "lbgjb10" <lbgjb(at)gnt.net>
Date: May 10, 2010
very interesting thread and obviously concern for all of us that fly -10. What about a hole in the tunnel and then have a backward fitting like a fuel vent that would 'venturi' out any fumes. it would remove any significant fuel leak and vapors as well. sure glad that father and daughter ended up with minimal medical problems compared to what could have happened. larry -------- Larry and Gayle N104LG Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297330#297330 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: RV-10 Fly-In at X35
Date: May 10, 2010
Sorry to those that couldn't make it because of the short notice and because it was on a weekday, but we had a pretty good turnout. It was a perfect day for getting some Florida sun without being too hot to bear. Thanks to those that came and I hope we can do it again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: paint thickness?
From: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com>
Date: May 11, 2010
Just curious how much material (roughly) to remove between the door and the cabin for paint. I have a flush fit with no gap now. -------- Cust. #40936 RV-10 SB Fuselage N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297348#297348 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals
From: "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 11, 2010
Photos? Especially of running the seal around the door hinges and/or strut area. Thanks, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297349#297349 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine control cables touch mount
From: "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 11, 2010
I have a Vans throttle quadrant and am using the cables that came with it run through standard FW holes. Here's the issue... The -540 engine sump comes close to the lower mount tube (at least in my case). This means that neither the mixture or prop cable can be run as shown in the plans - which assume vernier controls btw. Both are routed under the lower mount touch the tube. The throttle cable runs in the place shown by the plans, but it too rests right on the mount tube and is quite snug against it. It seems to reason that the cables will chaffe against the engine mount over time as they are attached to a mucho vibrating engine. I called Vans the other day and asked them for some input. Ken said to make sure that there was at least 1/2" of slack in the cables. He also confirmed what I've heard elsewhere that there is quite a bit of variation in lycosaur engine dimensions. Vans ran into this first hand on their -12. There was a comment made about procuring longer cables from the vendor if required (hmmm... not a good customer experience). I recently saw another builders -10 when it was down for its annual. This one used standard verniers, but its throttle cable also touched the engine mount. The builder had used a ~3" piece of clamped up rubber hose around the cable where it touched the mount tube. Seems like a pretty good low tech solution that doesn't involve buying new cables. Anyone else have this problem and if so how did you solve it? Regards, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297351#297351 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electronic Circuit Breakers on your EFIS
From: "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com>
Date: May 11, 2010
Vertical Power, along with its EFIS partners, recently announced the VP-X Electronic Circuit Breaker System. The VP-X uses proven electronic circuit breakers to simplify wiring and provide advanced electrical system capabilities. Monitor the status of individual devices and the entire electrical system right from your EFIS. Avionics, lights, trim, and flaps can all be controlled using standard switches or the EFIS. The VP-X works with Advanced Flight Systems, Grand Rapids Technologies HX and HX Sport, and MGL Voyager/Odyssey Gen 2 EFIS products. Click to learn more. http://www.verticalpower.com/VPX.html -------- Marc Ausman http://www.verticalpower.com "Move up to a modern electrical system" RV-7 IO-390 Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297355#297355 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Date: May 11, 2010
Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> > Date: May 10, 2010 7:38:13 AM EDT > To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps > > Here is what I did, I don't have any final installation pictures > with me, but it turned out great. > > I can take another picture tonight if you need it. I mounted it on > the lower rivet hole where the rear 5 point harness was. > > -Mike Kraus > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 10, 2010, at 12:46 AM, John Gonzalez > wrote: > >> I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through >> ideas on where to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS >> can display flap position. >> >> Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few. >> >> Thanks, >> >> JOhn G >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
Date: May 11, 2010
Can't you put an adel clamp around it and secure it to another adel clamp around the engine mount to keep it from rubbing? Sent from my iPhone On May 11, 2010, at 10:24 AM, "jayb" wrote: > > I have a Vans throttle quadrant and am using the cables that came > with it run through standard FW holes. > > Here's the issue... The -540 engine sump comes close to the lower > mount tube (at least in my case). This means that neither the > mixture or prop cable can be run as shown in the plans - which > assume vernier controls btw. Both are routed under the lower mount > touch the tube. The throttle cable runs in the place shown by the > plans, but it too rests right on the mount tube and is quite snug > against it. It seems to reason that the cables will chaffe against > the engine mount over time as they are attached to a mucho vibrating > engine. > > I called Vans the other day and asked them for some input. Ken said > to make sure that there was at least 1/2" of slack in the cables. He > also confirmed what I've heard elsewhere that there is quite a bit > of variation in lycosaur engine dimensions. Vans ran into this first > hand on their -12. There was a comment made about procuring longer > cables from the vendor if required (hmmm... not a good customer > experience). > > I recently saw another builders -10 when it was down for its annual. > This one used standard verniers, but its throttle cable also touched > the engine mount. The builder had used a ~3" piece of clamped up > rubber hose around the cable where it touched the mount tube. Seems > like a pretty good low tech solution that doesn't involve buying new > cables. > > Anyone else have this problem and if so how did you solve it? > > Regards, > Jay > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297351#297351 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2010
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
Especially if you have cold air induction,,,,, just buy different length ca bles... several had to modify the motor mounts. Don --- On Tue, 5/11/10, jayb wrote: From: jayb <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV10-List: Engine control cables touch mount Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 7:24 AM I have a Vans throttle quadrant and am using the cables that came with it r un through standard FW holes. Here's the issue... The -540 engine sump comes close to the lower mount tub e (at least in my case). This means that neither the mixture or prop cable can be run as shown in the plans - which assume vernier controls btw. Both are routed under the lower mount touch the tube. The throttle cable runs in the place shown by the plans, but it too rests right on the mount tube and is quite snug against it. It seems to reason that the cables will chaffe a gainst the engine mount over time as they are attached to a mucho vibrating engine. I called Vans the other day and asked them for some input. Ken said to make sure that there was at least 1/2" of slack in the cables. He also confirme d what I've heard elsewhere that there is quite a bit of variation in lycos aur engine dimensions. Vans ran into this first hand on their -12. There wa s a comment made about procuring longer cables from the vendor if required (hmmm... not a good customer experience). I recently saw another builders -10 when it was down for its annual. This o ne used standard verniers, but its throttle cable also touched the engine m ount. The builder had used a ~3" piece of clamped up rubber hose around the cable where it touched the mount tube. Seems like a pretty good low tech s olution that doesn't involve buying new cables. Anyone else have this problem and if so how did you solve it? Regards, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297351#297351 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paint thickness?
From: "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Date: May 11, 2010
My paint guru said to allow at least 0.020" gap. A properly applied paint job on both sides will fill approximately half of that, leaving a final gap of about 0.010". Jim Berry 40482 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297400#297400 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Date: May 11, 2010
Mike, Your pictures didn't come through. Can you try again? Alan _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:18 AM Subject: Fwd: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> Date: May 10, 2010 7:38:13 AM EDT Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps Here is what I did, I don't have any final installation pictures with me, but it turned out great. I can take another picture tonight if you need it. I mounted it on the lower rivet hole where the rear 5 point harness was. -Mike Kraus IMG_0896.JPGIMG_0897.JPG Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2010, at 12:46 AM, John Gonzalez < indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> wrote: I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas on where to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display flap position. Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few. Thanks, JOhn G href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Date: May 11, 2010
Picture didn't come through please send again. John From: n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net Subject: Fwd: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps Date: Tue=2C 11 May 2010 10:17:54 -0400 Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> Date: May 10=2C 2010 7:38:13 AM EDT Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps Here is what I did=2C I don't have any final installation pictures with me =2C but it turned out great. I can take another picture tonight if you need it. I mounted it on the low er rivet hole where the rear 5 point harness was. -Mike Kraus Sent from my iPhone On May 10=2C 2010=2C at 12:46 AM=2C John Gonzalez wrote: I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas on whe re to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display flap posi tion. Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few. Thanks=2C JOhn G href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: May 11, 2010
Subject: OT: iPad GPS
BTW I stumbled across this recently for the iPad. Expensive but... I am "This Close" to giving up flying and just play with my iPad(s). http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/21/pilots-take-your-ipad-flying-with-the-tech- board-ipro-kneeboard/ Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2010
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: paint thickness?
That's pretty tight IMO. A lot will depend on your painter, and whether you use a single stage paint or base/clear/ different painters prefer different coverages. I allowed between 1/16 - 3/32, and in a couple of places its just barely enough (base/clear paint job). Deems Davis N519PJ www.deemsrv10.com On 5/11/2010 1:45 PM, Jim Berry wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Berry" > > My paint guru said to allow at least 0.020" gap. A properly applied paint job on both sides will fill approximately half of that, leaving a final gap of about 0.010". > > Jim Berry > 40482 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297400#297400 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seano <sean(at)braunandco.com>
Subject: Re: paint thickness?
Date: May 11, 2010
Thanks. I will be having base/clear paint. I will shoot for .080. Sent from my iPhone On May 11, 2010, at 18:19, Deems Davis wrote: > That's pretty tight IMO. A lot will depend on your painter, and > whether you use a single stage paint or base/clear/ different > painters prefer different coverages. I allowed between 1/16 - 3/32, > and in a couple of places its just barely enough (base/clear paint > job). > > Deems Davis > N519PJ > www.deemsrv10.com > > On 5/11/2010 1:45 PM, Jim Berry wrote: >> >> >> My paint guru said to allow at least 0.020" gap. A properly applied >> paint job on both sides will fill approximately half of that, >> leaving a final gap of about 0.010". >> >> Jim Berry >> 40482 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297400#297400 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: May 11, 2010
Subject: Re: paint thickness?
I personally prefer a wide gap that has an even, constant spread in the gap (door gap, cowl gap) than a tighter gap that is not even. I wish I had followed my own advice on the baggage door. It's a bit too tight. Robin Sent from my iPad Wahoo! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
Date: May 11, 2010
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT: iPad GPS
From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Date: May 11, 2010
Jesse, A-GPS is Assisted GPS, which means the GPS does not have to look for all of the satellites, but it can download the almanac (the current position of the satellites) from a remote server. This way you never have to wait for a "cold start" which could take several minutes. And that's probably why the iPhone has trouble getting a GPS lock in the air, when there's no 3G signal. I think the confusion comes from how the old, 2G iPhone, without a GPS chip used to calculate it's approximate position from cell towers. Here's more info on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297455#297455 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT: iPad GPS
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
Date: May 12, 2010
We picked up a 3G iPad on the Friday they were released. We are running Foreflight and have taken it on two short trips. GPS works at altitude even though we have not activated the cell service yet. As far as sunlight viewing I can't say that we have not been able to read it yet, but for the most part the RV-10 cockpit is shaded, not like some of the bubble canopies. Keep in mind the limited use we have had. I think installing an anti glare cover would make it OK in almost any condition. I don't think brightness is as much of an issue as glare. With all of that said, we really like this thing. Would like to try the Bluetooth GPS but not sure about the ramifications of jail breaking. If this thing doesn't bring this form factor (table, slate, take you pick) mainstream then nothing will. It is really nice to use when your just sitting around watching TV. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297467#297467 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2010
From: Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: OT: iPad GPS
At What altitude? We can assume it'll work to 8-10K. -Has anyone taken to say 15k? Since a lot of people will fly up there, what is the projected altitude it' s not going to work? Patrick Thyssen. Just like to know. --- On Wed, 5/12/10, jkreidler wrote: From: jkreidler <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> Subject: RV10-List: Re: OT: iPad GPS Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 6:52 AM m> We picked up a 3G iPad on the Friday they were released.- We are running Foreflight and have taken it on two short trips.- GPS works at altitude e ven though we have not activated the cell service yet.- As far as sunligh t viewing I can't say that we have not been able to read it yet, but for th e most part the RV-10 cockpit is shaded, not like some of the bubble canopi es.- Keep in mind the limited use we have had.- I think installing an a nti glare cover would make it OK in almost any condition.- I don't think brightness is as much of an issue as glare. With all of that said, we really like this thing.- Would like to try the Bluetooth GPS but not sure about the ramifications of jail breaking.- If this thing doesn't bring this form factor (table, slate, take you pick) mai nstream then nothing will.- It is really nice to use when your just sitti ng around watching TV. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297467#297467 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: May 12, 2010
Subject: Re: OT: iPad GPS
The last bullet under #1 in that Wikipedia article is really what most cell phones do. A-GPS does normally use cell towers to give a quick rough fix to help startup via tower triangulation. GPS units generally "know" where satellites are supposed to be based on the internal clock and their internal data. What they usually don't know, or have a problem figuring out if you just flew cross country with them off, is where they are starting from. The quick cell tower fix gives them that rough starting point to begin from. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lenny Iszak Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:27 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: OT: iPad GPS Jesse, A-GPS is Assisted GPS, which means the GPS does not have to look for all of the satellites, but it can download the almanac (the current position of the satellites) from a remote server. This way you never have to wait for a "cold start" which could take several minutes. And that's probably why the iPhone has trouble getting a GPS lock in the air, when there's no 3G signal. I think the confusion comes from how the old, 2G iPhone, without a GPS chip used to calculate it's approximate position from cell towers. Here's more info on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297455#297455 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT: iPad GPS
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
Date: May 12, 2010
No higher altitudes yet, might have a PIREP Friday from a planned longer 'higher' flight. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297472#297472 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "stevenflys1(at)juno.com" <stevenflys1(at)juno.com>
Date: May 12, 2010
Subject: please remove me from list
Please remove me from the list ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4beaa53430e0467526st01duc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
From: "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 13, 2010
Seems like a simple fix, but maybe not good idea as the cables need to be able to flex and move freely along with the engine. There is already an adel clamp in the standard location recommended by Vans. Adding a second clamp might work if it were on the large side. However, the cable might then wear against the clamp. Maybe I'm thinking too hard. Jay > Can't you put an adel clamp around it and secure it to another adel > clamp around the engine mount to keep it from rubbing? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297604#297604 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
From: "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 13, 2010
Anyone know how much new cables cost? This would be an opportunity for Vans to improve their customer experience by either providing specified cables lengths or no cable option w/ their throttle quadrant. Of course, I'll bet no one from Vans monitors this list. I'm getting to the point on this project that I no longer trust ANY plan section that says cut, drill or permanently attach w/o consulting the -10 list for gotchas first. Caveat emptor! Jay [quote="partner14"]Especially if you have cold air induction,,,,, just buy different length cables... several had to modify the motor mounts. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297605#297605 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
From: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>
Date: May 13, 2010
When I ordered my kit that had the cables, I had them switch out the stock cables that came with the quadrant for ones that were at least 1" longer. Don't remember the exact lengths that I ordered but think I would add another half inch to the throttle if I had to do it again. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297607#297607 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
Date: May 13, 2010
I ordered the standard quadrant kit with cables. The prop cable was perfect, but the throttle and mixture were a bit long! I got them to work, bit an inch or two shorter would have been better for my install..... Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2010, at 11:32 AM, "orchidman" wrote: > > When I ordered my kit that had the cables, I had them switch out the > stock cables that came with the quadrant for ones that were at least > 1" longer. Don't remember the exact lengths that I ordered but > think I would add another half inch to the throttle if I had to do > it again. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297607#297607 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
Date: May 13, 2010
You are overthinking it. The cable has a thick plastic shield on it. Make the adel clamp a tad big and the plastic can then slide on the rubber and it will last for many many years. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2010, at 11:18 AM, "jayb" wrote: > > Seems like a simple fix, but maybe not good idea as the cables need > to be able to flex and move freely along with the engine. There is > already an adel clamp in the standard location recommended by Vans. > Adding a second clamp might work if it were on the large side. > However, the cable might then wear against the clamp. Maybe I'm > thinking too hard. > > Jay > >> Can't you put an adel clamp around it and secure it to another adel >> clamp around the engine mount to keep it from rubbing? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297604#297604 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 13, 2010
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
I replaced the stock cables with 47" for the prop, 51" for mixture and 72" for the prop. I got the cables from a local cablecraft distributor. Also, ask for the highest temp rating you can get. The green cables from Vans aren't the best. A set of replacement cables should be $200 or less. Do everything to you can to route them away from heat sources, including the heater dumps. I covered mine with fire sleeve in that area. The inner liner softens when it gets too hot, and if that happens in a radius then the wire digs into the soft liner, eventually making a groove on the inside. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:27 AM, jayb wrote: > > Anyone know how much new cables cost? > > This would be an opportunity for Vans to improve their customer experience > by either providing specified cables lengths or no cable option w/ their > throttle quadrant. Of course, I'll bet no one from Vans monitors this list. > > I'm getting to the point on this project that I no longer trust ANY plan > section that says cut, drill or permanently attach w/o consulting the -10 > list for gotchas first. Caveat emptor! > > Jay > > > [quote="partner14"]Especially if you have cold air induction,,,,, just buy > different length cables... several had to modify the motor mounts. > Don > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297605#297605 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2010
Subject: Andair Valves Redux
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
I know there has been a fair amount of discussion in the past as to location to mount the Andair, whether or not to use an extension. Being at that point in my build, it appears to me that mounting the valve flush with the top of the panel avoids the extension issue, requires a few extra bends in fuel lines to make room for heater duct, and puts heat right under the valve. On the other hand, it also seems to put a large upward loop in the fuel circuit. It appears to me, not having gone beyond this point and not knowing other pitfalls, that using the full 12" extension would minimize the uphill direction of fuel flow, allow heater duct to go above the valve and fuel lines, while shortening the fuel lines between the entry to the tunnel and the fuel filter. I have the newer "B" variety valve, so no customization needed on the extension. What have others experienced in delay time ordering direct from Andair? Wonder why Van's doesn't offer the extension. I note that Van's valve mount is something like .060 aluminum. I have some .040 that would be handy to use, probably with alu. angle, which seems like it ought to be plenty strong, or just move Van's mount lower in the tunnel and make a plate to go on top of it to accommodate the Andair configuration. Kelly #40866 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 13, 2010
Subject: Re: Andair Valves Redux
We ordered a few things from Andair about 6 months ago including an extension kit. I was pleasantly surprised by how quickly they arrived. I don't think it was much more than a week. I ended up just emailing my order because the web site order choked when I tried to check out. I got a response right away. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I know there has been a fair amount of discussion in the past as to > location to mount the Andair, whether or not to use an extension. > Being at that point in my build, it appears to me that mounting the > valve flush with the top of the panel avoids the extension issue, > requires a few extra bends in fuel lines to make room for heater duct, > and puts heat right under the valve. On the other hand, it also seems > to put a large upward loop in the fuel circuit. It appears to me, not > having gone beyond this point and not knowing other pitfalls, that > using the full 12" extension would minimize the uphill direction of > fuel flow, allow heater duct to go above the valve and fuel lines, > while shortening the fuel lines between the entry to the tunnel and > the fuel filter. I have the newer "B" variety valve, so no > customization needed on the extension. What have others experienced in > delay time ordering direct from Andair? Wonder why Van's doesn't offer > the extension. I note that Van's valve mount is something like .060 > aluminum. I have some .040 that would be handy to use, probably with > alu. angle, which seems like it ought to be plenty strong, or just > move Van's mount lower in the tunnel and make a plate to go on top of > it to accommodate the Andair configuration. > > Kelly > #40866 > Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Andair Valves Redux
Date: May 13, 2010
You see the light! Good redux! Tim On May 13, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I know there has been a fair amount of discussion in the past as to > location to mount the Andair, whether or not to use an extension. > Being at that point in my build, it appears to me that mounting the > valve flush with the top of the panel avoids the extension issue, > requires a few extra bends in fuel lines to make room for heater duct, > and puts heat right under the valve. On the other hand, it also seems > to put a large upward loop in the fuel circuit. It appears to me, not > having gone beyond this point and not knowing other pitfalls, that > using the full 12" extension would minimize the uphill direction of > fuel flow, allow heater duct to go above the valve and fuel lines, > while shortening the fuel lines between the entry to the tunnel and > the fuel filter. I have the newer "B" variety valve, so no > customization needed on the extension. What have others experienced in > delay time ordering direct from Andair? Wonder why Van's doesn't offer > the extension. I note that Van's valve mount is something like .060 > aluminum. I have some .040 that would be handy to use, probably with > alu. angle, which seems like it ought to be plenty strong, or just > move Van's mount lower in the tunnel and make a plate to go on top of > it to accommodate the Andair configuration. > > Kelly > #40866 > Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
Subject: Andair Valves Redux
Date: May 13, 2010
I've ordered from them several times lately on their web site and always go t the stuff in less than a week. It used to be longer and the web ordering was terrible. My experience now has been seamless. Date: Thu=2C 13 May 2010 14:26:53 -0700 > Subject: RV10-List: Andair Valves Redux > From: apilot2(at)gmail.com > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > > I know there has been a fair amount of discussion in the past as to > location to mount the Andair=2C whether or not to use an extension. > Being at that point in my build=2C it appears to me that mounting the > valve flush with the top of the panel avoids the extension issue=2C > requires a few extra bends in fuel lines to make room for heater duct=2C > and puts heat right under the valve. On the other hand=2C it also seems > to put a large upward loop in the fuel circuit. It appears to me=2C not > having gone beyond this point and not knowing other pitfalls=2C that > using the full 12" extension would minimize the uphill direction of > fuel flow=2C allow heater duct to go above the valve and fuel lines=2C > while shortening the fuel lines between the entry to the tunnel and > the fuel filter. I have the newer "B" variety valve=2C so no > customization needed on the extension. What have others experienced in > delay time ordering direct from Andair? Wonder why Van's doesn't offer > the extension. I note that Van's valve mount is something like .060 > aluminum. I have some .040 that would be handy to use=2C probably with > alu. angle=2C which seems like it ought to be plenty strong=2C or just > move Van's mount lower in the tunnel and make a plate to go on top of > it to accommodate the Andair configuration. > > Kelly > #40866 > Fuselage > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H otmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
From: John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: May 13, 2010
The archives have the name of the company, sales rep and price per cable to improve on the length. Each was less than $60.00. They are made for Van' s in Portland. There is a lot of value buried in queries of past posts of years ago for those who enjoy the search. They are authorized manufacturer s for Cablecraft. John Cox From: Dave Saylor Sent: Thu 5/13/2010 9:42 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Engine control cables touch mount I replaced the stock cables with 47" for the prop, 51" for mixture and 72" for the prop. I got the cables from a local cablecraft distributor. Also, ask for the highest temp rating you can get. The green cables from Vans a ren't the best. A set of replacement cables should be $200 or less. Do everything to you can to route them away from heat sources, including th e heater dumps. I covered mine with fire sleeve in that area. The inner l iner softens when it gets too hot, and if that happens in a radius then the wire digs into the soft liner, eventually making a groove on the inside. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:27 AM, jayb wrote: Anyone know how much new cables cost? This would be an opportunity for Vans to improve their customer experience by either providing specified cables lengths or no cable option w/ their th rottle quadrant. Of course, I'll bet no one from Vans monitors this list. I'm getting to the point on this project that I no longer trust ANY plan se ction that says cut, drill or permanently attach w/o consulting the -10 lis t for gotchas first. Caveat emptor! Jay [quote="partner14"]Especially if you have cold air induction,,,,, just bu y different length cables... several had to modify the motor mounts. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297605#297605 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2010
Subject: Re: Engine control cables touch mount
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Is this the lead you are referring to John? http://www.tuthill.com/us/en/brands/Cablecraft.cfm They make the cables for Cessna. You can order direct form Cablecraft On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:14 PM, John Cox wrote: > The archives have the name of the company, sales rep and price per cable to > improve on the length. Each was less than $60.00. They are made for Van's > in Portland. There is a lot of value buried in queries of past posts of > years ago for those who enjoy the search. They are authorized manufacturers > for Cablecraft. > > John Cox > ________________________________ > From: Dave Saylor > Sent: Thu 5/13/2010 9:42 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Engine control cables touch mount > > I replaced the stock cables with 47" for the prop, 51" for mixture and 72" > for the prop. I got the cables from a local cablecraft distributor. Also, > ask for the highest temp rating you can get. The green cables from Vans > aren't the best. A set of replacement cables should be $200 or less. > > Do everything to you can to route them away from heat sources, including the > heater dumps. I covered mine with fire sleeve in that area. The inner > liner softens when it gets too hot, and if that happens in a radius then the > wire digs into the soft liner, eventually making a groove on the inside. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA 95076 > 831-722-9141 Shop > 831-750-0284 Cell > > > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:27 AM, jayb wrote: >> >> >> Anyone know how much new cables cost? >> >> This would be an opportunity for Vans to improve their customer experience >> by either providing specified cables lengths or no cable option w/ their >> throttle quadrant. Of course, I'll bet no one from Vans monitors this list. >> >> I'm getting to the point on this project that I no longer trust ANY plan >> section that says cut, drill or permanently attach w/o consulting the -10 >> list for gotchas first. Caveat emptor! >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> [quote="partner14"]Especially if you have cold air induction,,,,, just buy >> different length cables... several had to modify the motor mounts. >> Don >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297605#297605 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > p://forums.matronics.com/ > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: May 14, 2010
OK I finally found the light that I want to use instead of the vents in the overhead console. Now here is the question to all electrical engineers. The LED light comes with an LED driver (transformator) which reduces the 230V (AC) into 12V DC 350mA. Now here is my question. Is it possible to leave the the LED driver out and connect the LED directly to the battery of course with a fuse in between? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297784#297784 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_565000_0_919.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
Date: May 14, 2010
I bought the aveo light and have been impressed with it. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297786#297786 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: May 14, 2010
woxofswa wrote: > I bought the aveo light and have been impressed with it. The diameter of the Aveo won't fit in the vent recess of the console so it is not an option. Michael -------- RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297787#297787 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2010
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
From: Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com>
It depends. IF there is a current regulator in the LED assembly, then you could plug directly into the mail bus (which will on the order of 14 Volts during normal operation). If they have not installed a regulator then you may burn out the LED's or shorten their life. The way to find out is to connect them to a bench / adjustable power supply and bring up the voltage slowly while watching the brightness of the LED. If you get to say 8 volts the brightness of the LED reaches a peak and stays constant for the rest of the voltage change, then yes you have a regulator and it's working. At that point you should be able to connect directly to the 12 V bus. If not, then the LED will be brighter and you risk shortening the life. if they are not too expensive then just plug it in and go for it. Jim C (N312F - Flying!) On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> > > OK I finally found the light that I want to use instead of the vents in the > overhead console. Now here is the question to all electrical engineers. > The LED light comes with an LED driver (transformator) which reduces the > 230V (AC) into 12V DC 350mA. > Now here is my question. > Is it possible to leave the the LED driver out and connect the LED directly > to the battery of course with a fuse in between? > > Thanks > Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297784#297784 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_565000_0_919.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: May 14, 2010
Thank you Jim, I will give it a try. Michael -------- RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297794#297794 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2010
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
Michael, I can help you if Jim's advice brings you not the correct outcome. Distrelec sells power bricks which gives you a stabilized output voltage of 12V (up to 3A) I use them on my moving map display, input varies, mine allows 32-9V stabilized 12 V output. That will always work Werner On 15.05.2010 01:06, Jim Combs wrote: > It depends. > > IF there is a current regulator in the LED assembly, then you could plug > directly into the mail bus (which will on the order of 14 Volts during > normal operation). If they have not installed a regulator then you may > burn out the LED's or shorten their life. > > The way to find out is to connect them to a bench / adjustable power > supply and bring up the voltage slowly while watching the brightness of > the LED. If you get to say 8 volts the brightness of the LED reaches a > peak and stays constant for the rest of the voltage change, then yes you > have a regulator and it's working. At that point you should be able to > connect directly to the 12 V bus. If not, then the LED will be brighter > and you risk shortening the life. > > if they are not too expensive then just plug it in and go for it. > > Jim C (N312F - Flying!) > > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Michael Wellenzohn > > wrote: > > > > > OK I finally found the light that I want to use instead of the vents > in the overhead console. Now here is the question to all electrical > engineers. > The LED light comes with an LED driver (transformator) which reduces > the 230V (AC) into 12V DC 350mA. > Now here is my question. > Is it possible to leave the the LED driver out and connect the LED > directly to the battery of course with a fuse in between? > > Thanks > Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297784#297784 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_565000_0_919.jpg > > > ========== > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: May 15, 2010
Hallo Werner danke Dir knntest Du mir bitte eventuell die Artikenummer geben. Danke und Gru Michael -------- RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297810#297810 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2010
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Swivel Overhead LED cabin lights
Ciao Michael, such bei Distrelec nach Traco Power dann kommt es darauf an, wieviel Watt Du brauchts z.B. 3x350mA =1.05 A bei 12V = 13W Einganspannung 9-18V (sollte reichen) TEL 15-1212 Art. Nr. : 361322 am besten schaust das Datenblatt an Gruss Werner On 15.05.2010 10:02, Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn" > > Hallo Werner > danke Dir knntest Du mir bitte eventuell die Artikenummer geben. > Danke und Gru > Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297810#297810 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals
You've probably already received some photos but here are mine jayb wrote: > > Photos? Especially of running the seal around the door hinges and/or strut area. > Thanks, > Jay > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297349#297349 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transponder Antenna Location
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
Date: May 15, 2010
We have been told on more than one occasion that ATC was not seeing our transponder. We have a Garmin GTX327 installed. We are wondering if our antenna location might be the problem, our antenna is located in the center of the airplane just behind the firewall. At the time we installed the antenna it looked like a good spot, but that was before we had the exhaust installed. Not sure if the location is the problem or not, just wondering of anyone else has experienced any problems with the antenna in this location. Thoughts appreciated. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297856#297856 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
From: "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 15, 2010
I doubt that's the problem.. Mine's on the right side.. maybe 10 inches to the right of the centerline (so it's not in the exhaust path)... and it works perfect.. never skipped a beat.. Have you had your txp checked per 91.413? Did it pass that inspection? -------- RV-7A N777TY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297858#297858 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
Date: May 15, 2010
Yes, we had it inspected. Our antenna is between the exhaust stacks and the exhaust exits behind the antenna. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297859#297859 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
Date: May 15, 2010
I occasionally get the same complaint. I would say on about 5-10% of the controller changes. It seems to occur more often when headed directly at the antenna sight and long or short range only rather than medium. It almost always returns for the controller as the position relative to the sight changes. The antenna is on the belly centerline about 14 inches aft of the firewall. Dick Sipp N110DV -------------------------------------------------- From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 7:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: Transponder Antenna Location > > > We have been told on more than one occasion that ATC was not seeing our > transponder. We have a Garmin GTX327 installed. We are wondering if our > antenna location might be the problem, our antenna is located in the > center of the airplane just behind the firewall. At the time we installed > the antenna it looked like a good spot, but that was before we had the > exhaust installed. Not sure if the location is the problem or not, just > wondering of anyone else has experienced any problems with the antenna in > this location. Thoughts appreciated. > > -------- > Jason Kreidler > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI > Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler > N44YH - Flying - #40617 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297856#297856 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2010
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
It is possible the exhaust stacks are shielding the antenna in that case. Shouldn't be to hard to patch that hole and move antenna a foot or so to right or left of exhaust. On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 5:10 PM, jkreidler wrote: > > Yes, we had it inspected. > > Our antenna is between the exhaust stacks and the exhaust exits behind the antenna. > > -------- > Jason Kreidler > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI > Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler > N44YH - Flying - #40617 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297859#297859 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2010
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
I'd be checking the antenna cable before I worried about the antenna location. It isn't unusual to find a loose antenna cable in those situations. If nothing obvious, ask avionics shop to do a field check of the transponder, where they observe the output with a small handheld receiver that will indicate output power. You should have had a check like that very early in your flight test phase. On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 4:37 PM, jkreidler wrote: > > We have been told on more than one occasion that ATC was not seeing our transponder. We have a Garmin GTX327 installed. We are wondering if our antenna location might be the problem, our antenna is located in the center of the airplane just behind the firewall. At the time we installed the antenna it looked like a good spot, but that was before we had the exhaust installed. Not sure if the location is the problem or not, just wondering of anyone else has experienced any problems with the antenna in this location. Thoughts appreciated. > > -------- > Jason Kreidler > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI > Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler > N44YH - Flying - #40617 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297856#297856 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
Date: May 15, 2010
Kelly, we did have the typical inspection performed where he sets up a tests apparatus, but that is done in the shop. Is there another way they test? We have not narrowed it to a specific geographic location, it seems to happen at random. Our suspicion is that the antenna is being shadowed by the exhaust pipes. We were going to move the antenna back a foot or so, but wanted to get some feedback before making an assumption that that is the real problem. If others have it in the same location and are not having the problem then we would need to dig deeper. We did verify the cables and connections were good. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297869#297869 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2010
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Yes, there is a hand held ramp checker. They are supposed to test the full system, which means receiving the signal from the antenna, not connected to a load on the bench. On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 6:52 PM, jkreidler wrote: > > Kelly, we did have the typical inspection performed where he sets up a tests apparatus, but that is done in the shop. Is there another way they test? > > We have not narrowed it to a specific geographic location, it seems to happen at random. Our suspicion is that the antenna is being shadowed by the exhaust pipes. We were going to move the antenna back a foot or so, but wanted to get some feedback before making an assumption that that is the real problem. If others have it in the same location and are not having the problem then we would need to dig deeper. We did verify the cables and connections were good. > > -------- > Jason Kreidler > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI > Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler > N44YH - Flying - #40617 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297869#297869 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna Location
Date: May 16, 2010
I have mine on the centerline just aft of the fire wall. Mine too looks like the exhaust might block some of the signal, but it has worked fine all the time. Mine is quite far forward before the pipes get very far down along the sides of the antenna. I have the big Forsling exhaust that is about 3" in diameter at the end. Gary Specketer -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jkreidler Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Transponder Antenna Location Kelly, we did have the typical inspection performed where he sets up a tests apparatus, but that is done in the shop. Is there another way they test? We have not narrowed it to a specific geographic location, it seems to happen at random. Our suspicion is that the antenna is being shadowed by the exhaust pipes. We were going to move the antenna back a foot or so, but wanted to get some feedback before making an assumption that that is the real problem. If others have it in the same location and are not having the problem then we would need to dig deeper. We did verify the cables and connections were good. -------- Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297869#297869 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Speaker in overhead console
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: May 16, 2010
I used the right back seat armrest area. It is easy to hear an reverberates in the cabin. Also easy to wire and repair in this area. I think that you have to check the impedance to match the output. Just remember magnets -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - phase 1 / painting Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297905#297905 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Traveling to Israel
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: May 16, 2010
Any RV10 builders or flying 10's out there. Love to see your build share tips and talk planes. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - phase 1 / painting Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297906#297906 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: EGT probes
Date: May 16, 2010
Any suggestions for long life EGT probes? I have 278 TT on my RV10 and have replaced 3 EGT probes from GRT. Failures have been on 6 then 4 (or 2) then 1. #2 failed this morning. Some are the original GRT EIS probes and some are their allegedly long life probes. I lost the third one on a trip to IL and GRT FEDEXed two "long life" probes to IL. I changed #1 and kept the spare. This morning on a local training flight, #2 failed (again?). Probes are located 2 inches below the exhaust port (specs call 2-6"). EGTs normally see high 1300 /low 1400 in cruise. takeoff and climb EGTs are 1200-1350. At altitude the LOP operation usually provided CHTs (275-325) and EGTs (1360-1410). GEM probes on a previous aircraft (TC177RG) were rated for 1650 F red line and since my normal operation was about EGTs at 1400. I replaced two probes in 29 years of ownership and 2500 hours. I have now replaced 4 GRT probes in 278 hours. I am considering a completely new set of Alcor or GEM probes ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2010
Subject: Re: EGT probes
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Dave, I have almost the same exact hours on the EI fast response probes installed in my Mooney at 1.5" from exhaust flange, per their instructions. Haven't replace any so far. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM, DLM wrote: > Any suggestions for long life EGT probes? I have 278 TT on my RV10 and have > replaced 3 EGT probes from GRT. Failures have been on 6 then 4 (or 2)then > 1. #2 failed this morning. Some are the original GRT EIS probes and some are > their allegedly long life probes. I lost the third one on a trip to IL and > GRT FEDEXed two "long life" probes to IL. I changed #1 and kept the spare. > This morning on a local training flight, #2 failed (again?). Probes are > located2 inches below the exhaust port (specs call 2-6"). EGTs normally > seehigh 1300 /low 1400 in cruise. takeoff and climb EGTs are 1200-1350. At > altitude the LOP operation usually provided CHTs (275-325) and EGTs > (1360-1410). GEM probes on a previous aircraft (TC177RG) were rated for > 1650 F red line and since my normal operation was aboutEGTs at 1400. I > replaced two probes in 29 years of ownership and 2500 hours. I have now > replaced4 GRT probes in 278 hours. I am considering a completely new set of > Alcor or GEM probes > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)verizon.net>
Subject: EGT probes
Date: May 16, 2010
It's probably been covered, but what where your indications of a probe failure? I've got one on the fritz reading a constant very low temp but I don't know if it's the wiring or the probe gone bad. I also have the GRT setup and 450 hours TT. Thanks, Marcus From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:50 PM Subject: RV10-List: EGT probes Any suggestions for long life EGT probes? I have 278 TT on my RV10 and have replaced 3 EGT probes from GRT. Failures have been on 6 then 4 (or 2) then 1. #2 failed this morning. Some are the original GRT EIS probes and some are their allegedly long life probes. I lost the third one on a trip to IL and GRT FEDEXed two "long life" probes to IL. I changed #1 and kept the spare. This morning on a local training flight, #2 failed (again?). Probes are located 2 inches below the exhaust port (specs call 2-6"). EGTs normally see high 1300 /low 1400 in cruise. takeoff and climb EGTs are 1200-1350. At altitude the LOP operation usually provided CHTs (275-325) and EGTs (1360-1410). GEM probes on a previous aircraft (TC177RG) were rated for 1650 F red line and since my normal operation was about EGTs at 1400. I replaced two probes in 29 years of ownership and 2500 hours. I have now replaced 4 GRT probes in 278 hours. I am considering a completely new set of Alcor or GEM probes ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2010
From: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com>
Subject: Left Wingtip Length
I know there's been many discussions about wingtips that are too long, but going through the archives I cannot find how much is too much. My left wingtip is ~3/16 of an inch too long. It is aligned correctly with the aileron and I'm more worried about cutting and re-glassing it causing mis-alignment. Is 3/16 too much so as to effect flight, or should I be satisfied that the alignment is good and just leave it? How much extra length have others just left? -Sean #40303 http://rv10.stephensville.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: EGT probes
Date: May 16, 2010
The present failure is a constant low value reading. about 100-150. Other failures have been erratic. For example a 900 reading followed a second later by a 1300 reading. When removed, that probe had the outer cover burnt off and the welded leads to a small thermocouple were showing . One lead was detached from the thermocouple and was intermittently touching. the exhaust gases passing by would have caused the intermittent readings. will send picture of failed lead from another computer if I find it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcus Cooper To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:56 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: EGT probes It's probably been covered, but what where your indications of a probe failure? I've got one on the fritz reading a constant very low temp but I don't know if it's the wiring or the probe gone bad. I also have the GRT setup and 450 hours TT. Thanks, Marcus From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:50 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: EGT probes Any suggestions for long life EGT probes? I have 278 TT on my RV10 and have replaced 3 EGT probes from GRT. Failures have been on 6 then 4 (or 2) then 1. #2 failed this morning. Some are the original GRT EIS probes and some are their allegedly long life probes. I lost the third one on a trip to IL and GRT FEDEXed two "long life" probes to IL. I changed #1 and kept the spare. This morning on a local training flight, #2 failed (again?). Probes are located 2 inches below the exhaust port (specs call 2-6"). EGTs normally see high 1300 /low 1400 in cruise. takeoff and climb EGTs are 1200-1350. At altitude the LOP operation usually provided CHTs (275-325) and EGTs (1360-1410). GEM probes on a previous aircraft (TC177RG) were rated for 1650 F red line and since my normal operation was about EGTs at 1400. I replaced two probes in 29 years of ownership and 2500 hours. I have now replaced 4 GRT probes in 278 hours. I am considering a completely new set of Alcor or GEM probes - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much --> http://www.matronic================ - content also available via the Web --> http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'> - List Contribution Web Site style='mso-spacerun:yes'> Thank you for your generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'> -Matt style='mso-spacerun:yes'> --> http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: FW: EGT probe
Date: May 16, 2010
Found it. See the picture. -----Original Message----- From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:37 AM Subject: EGT probe FYI GRT just replaced this at no charge. TT was 210 hours. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another RV10 finished
From: "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
Date: May 16, 2010
N210KH has a brand new airworthiness certificate and ready to fly. Just waiting for the rain and storms in Oklahoma to stop. 40hours to go then Oshkosh. Greg Hale -------- Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH www.nwacaptain.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297927#297927 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2010
From: davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Left Wingtip Length
My left tip was 1/2" too long while the right was perfect. Mark it to length, cut it, then split it if needed and bevel the inside so it mates up nice. Rough the inside up with 36 grit REAL good including a 1" forward area for taping. Mix up some stiff flox, butter up the joint and clamp it straight with light spring clamps. Filet the inside with a little flox, paint the sanded area with pure epoxy and apply 2 layers of 1.5 - 2" BID fiberglass tape cut on the diagonal and wet them out. Trim and finish when cured. David Clifford RV-10 Builder 65% Done-95% To Go N849RV (reserved) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Stephens" <sean(at)stephensville.com> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:14:06 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RV10-List: Left Wingtip Length I know there's been many discussions about wingtips that are too long, but going through the archives I cannot find how much is too much. My left wingtip is ~3/16 of an inch too long. It is aligned correctly with the aileron and I'm more worried about cutting and re-glassing it causing mis-alignment. Is 3/16 too much so as to effect flight, or should I be satisfied that the alignment is good and just leave it? How much extra length have others just left? -Sean #40303 http://rv10.stephensville.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another RV10 finished
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: May 16, 2010
Fantastic Greg! Congratulations. I have followed your project and even have your seat adjustment levers on my airplane. (They work great!) I look forward to seeing your airplane. I know it is a work of art. Happy Flying! -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297938#297938 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2010
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Another RV10 finished
Well done Greg! Let me know where you are going to park @ OSH, cause I want to be as far away as possible. You've set a pretty high standard. Do you want to share you Empty Weight? Or did all of those mods result in weight savings ;-) Deems Davis N519PJ www.deemsrv10.com PS the Glaresheild and seat levers are doing well. On 5/16/2010 4:59 PM, greghale wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "greghale" > > N210KH has a brand new airworthiness certificate and ready to fly. Just waiting for the rain and storms in Oklahoma to stop. 40hours to go then Oshkosh. > > Greg Hale > > -------- > Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH > www.nwacaptain.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297927#297927 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: GRT probes
Date: May 17, 2010
Changed the EGT probe on #2 today. This is the second time to replace #2 EGT probe. Note the black shrink wrap near the connectors. These are the cheaper probes from GRT. Note that I did not say inexpensive.; the price from GRT is about $10 less than their "higher quality" probe. I did not know this when I received and installed my EIS 6000. They are not inexpensive because in 278 hours I have had four failures using these probes. Each time a failure occurs, the aircraft must be uncowled and a part obtained from GRT. Each failure cost about 2 hours of my labor and acquisition and AOG freight charges to remedy. If you use GRT probes at least insist on the EGT probes with the white shrink wrap near the connectors; they are the "higher quality" probes. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tow Studs
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: May 17, 2010
Hey Guys, I've read about complaints of tow jockies messing up the completed nose wheel pants, so now that we've finished the fly off and installed the pants, I asked the hangar guys and they agreed that getting their bars in the cut outs could be done carefully, but eventually would mess up the paint. So here are pics of what I did. Simply replaced the socket head bolts with 2.5 inch ones with a spacer and washer so that the stud is exterior to the fiberglass/paint with a washer flush so that the tow bar seats without going into the shell. It's really not noticeable and aerodynamic clutter is minimal. The longer bolts cost $1.00, made the spacers. The hangar guys love it -- thought I'd see what y'all thought. Later, - Lew -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 Fly off completed ! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297995#297995 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/towstud3_829.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/towstud2_212.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/towstud1_158.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/complete3_157.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2010
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GRT probes
I have now replaced all six probes after 650 hours of flying. If you have not flown I would return everyone of them and get the higher quality probe that GRT offers. So far, no problems with them. -Scott Schmidt Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2010, at 1:09 PM, "DLM" wrote: Changed the EGT probe on #2 today. This is the second time to replace #2 EGT probe. Note the black shrink wrap near the connectors. These are the cheaper probes from GRT. Note that I did not say inexpensive.; the price from GRT is about $10 less than their "higher quality" probe. I did not know this when I received and installed my EIS 6000. They are not inexpensive because in 278 hours I have had four failures using these probes. Each time a failure occurs, the aircraft must be uncowled and a part obtained from GRT. Each failure cost about 2 hours of my labor and acquisition and AOG freight charges to remedy. If you use GRT probes at least insist on the EGT probes with the white shrink wrap near the connectors; they are the "higher quality" probes. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Contact for Loehle products
Can anyone help me get in touch with the folks at Loehle. I have been trying to order some product for about a week and can't seem to get an order into the website, an answer to email, or a message on their phone. I'm hoping they just may be on vacation in which case I can wait...but want to make sure I'm not missing something. Thanks Bill "FG dust (cont)" Watson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
Subject: GRT probes
Date: May 17, 2010
Just how expensive are the better ones? Date: Mon=2C 17 May 2010 13:35:28 -0700 From: scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: GRT probes I have now replaced all six probes after 650 hours of flying. If you have n ot flown I would return everyone of them and get the higher quality probe t hat GRT offers. So far=2C no problems with them. -Scott Schmidt Sent from my iPhone On May 17=2C 2010=2C at 1:09 PM=2C "DLM" wrote: Changed the EGT probe on #2 today. This is the second time to replace #2 EGT probe. Note the black shrink wrap near the connectors. These are the cheaper probes fro m GRT. Note that I did not say inexpensive.=3B the price from GRT is about $1 0 less than their "higher quality" probe. I did not know this when I received and installed my EIS 6000. They are not inexpensive because in 278 hours I have had four failures using these probes. Each time a failure occurs=2C the aircraft must be uncowled and a part obtained from GRT. Each failure cost a bout 2 hours of my labor and acquisition and AOG freight charges to remedy. If y ou use GRT probes at least insist on the EGT probes with the white shrink wrap near the connectors=3B they are the "higher quality" probes. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
Subject: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 17, 2010
i've bought a lot of stuff from them and never had much luck with the web s ite or the fax. Fax usually not plugged in. Call between 9 to 11:30 and 1:3 Dan > Date: Mon=2C 17 May 2010 16:51:55 -0400 > From: MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Contact for Loehle products > rr.com> > > Can anyone help me get in touch with the folks at Loehle. I have been > trying to order some product for about a week and can't seem to get an > order into the website=2C an answer to email=2C or a message on their > phone. I'm hoping they just may be on vacation in which case I can > wait...but want to make sure I'm not missing something. > > Thanks > Bill "FG dust (cont)" Watson > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
Subject: Tow Studs
Date: May 17, 2010
excellent idea. very nice looking plane also!!!!! > Subject: RV10-List: Tow Studs > From: lewgall(at)charter.net > Date: Mon=2C 17 May 2010 12:42:10 -0700 > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hey Guys=2C > > I've read about complaints of tow jockies messing up the completed nose w heel pants=2C so now that we've finished the fly off and installed the pant s=2C I asked the hangar guys and they agreed that getting their bars in the cut outs could be done carefully=2C but eventually would mess up the paint . > > So here are pics of what I did. Simply replaced the socket head bolts wi th 2.5 inch ones with a spacer and washer so that the stud is exterior to t he fiberglass/paint with a washer flush so that the tow bar seats without g oing into the shell. It's really not noticeable and aerodynamic clutter is minimal. The longer bolts cost $1.00=2C made the spacers. The hangar guy s love it -- thought I'd see what y'all thought. > > Later=2C - Lew > > -------- > non-pilot > crazy about building > NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 > Fly off completed ! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297995#297995 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/towstud3_829.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/towstud2_212.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/towstud1_158.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/complete3_157.jpg > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: GRT probes
Date: May 17, 2010
Scott, How do you determine which ones are the higher quality? I only see reference to a standard set of probes on their site. Thanks, Bob From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: GRT probes I have now replaced all six probes after 650 hours of flying. If you have not flown I would return everyone of them and get the higher quality probe that GRT offers. So far, no problems with them. -Scott Schmidt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: GRT probes
Date: May 17, 2010
$10 more per probe _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 2:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT probes Just how expensive are the better ones? _____ Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:35:28 -0700 From: scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: GRT probes I have now replaced all six probes after 650 hours of flying. If you have not flown I would return everyone of them and get the higher quality probe that GRT offers. So far, no problems with them. -Scott Schmidt Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2010, at 1:09 PM, "DLM" wrote: Changed the EGT probe on #2 today. This is the second time to replace #2 EGT probe. Note the black shrink wrap near the connectors. These are the cheaper probes from GRT. Note that I did not say inexpensive.; the price from GRT is about $10 less than their "higher quality" probe. I did not know this when I received and installed my EIS 6000. They are not inexpensive because in 278 hours I have had four failures using these probes. Each time a failure occurs, the aircraft must be uncowled and a part obtained from GRT. Each failure cost about 2 hours of my labor and acquisition and AOG freight charges to remedy. If you use GRT probes at least insist on the EGT probes with the white shrink wrap near the connectors; they are the "higher quality" probes. http://www.matronics.com/Navigatwww.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m atronics.com/contribution _____ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more. <http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON: WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: GRT probes
Date: May 17, 2010
Sandy indicated that there were two different quality probes; she indicated that the standard (black wrap) probes work for most. Perhaps they got a bad batch. She said that the white wrap are available for about $10 more per probe. I have also researched GEM, Alcor and EI and may buy a replacement set from EI. My Glastar had all EI engine instruments and in 530 hours I never had a EGT or any of their probes fail. On my C177RG I had a GEM603 and had one or maybe two EGT probe failures over at least 15 years and 2000+ hours. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:44 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT probes Scott, How do you determine which ones are the higher quality? I only see reference to a standard set of probes on their site. Thanks, Bob From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: GRT probes I have now replaced all six probes after 650 hours of flying. If you have not flown I would return everyone of them and get the higher quality probe that GRT offers. So far, no problems with them. -Scott Schmidt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2010
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GRT probes
Bob, Sandy just mentioned that they offered a higher temp option when I called the first time. And $10 I am not sure why I have had probe problems Tim and you have not. I do have ceramic coated exhaust that may store more heat inside the system. I also located my probes as close as the plans discussed to the cylinders (I think that was 2.5"). If I did it again I would probably locate them further down the exhaust, maybe that would make the difference. The new probes appear to fix the problem as I have not had one issue with them. I also have some skin friction heat caused by the speed of my plane that increases the heat of the exhaust. That is most likely the problem :) Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> Sent: Mon, May 17, 2010 4:43:50 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT probes Scott, How do you determine which ones are the higher quality? I only see reference to a standard set of probes on their site. Thanks, Bob From:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: GRT probes I have now replaced all six probes after 650 hours of flying. If you have not flown I would return everyone of them and get the higher quality probe that GRT offers. So far, no problems with them. -Scott Schmidt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: GRT probes
Date: May 17, 2010
I think mine are 2" or so. When mine do go bad I'll just get 6 new ones and the good ones then. But for now I'm a happy camper. I think you're right about the skin friction heat....that's the hot tunnel reason too. Have you noticed your wing leading edges glow slightly orange at night too? Tim On May 17, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Scott Schmidt wrote: > Bob, Sandy just mentioned that they offered a higher temp option > when I called the first time. And $10 > > I am not sure why I have had probe problems Tim and you have not. I > do have ceramic coated exhaust that may store more heat inside the > system. I also located my probes as close as the plans discussed to > the cylinders (I think that was 2.5"). > If I did it again I would probably locate them further down the > exhaust, maybe that would make the difference. The new probes > appear to fix the problem as I have not had one issue with them. > > I also have some skin friction heat caused by the speed of my plane > that increases the heat of the exhaust. That is most likely the > problem :) > > Scott Schmidt > scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com > > > From: Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, May 17, 2010 4:43:50 PM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: GRT probes > > > Scott, > > How do you determine which ones are the higher quality? > > I only see reference to a standard set of probes on their site. > > Thanks, > > Bob > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 4:35 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: GRT probes > > I have now replaced all six probes after 650 hours of flying. > If you have not flown I would return everyone of them and get the > higher quality probe that GRT offers. So far, no problems with them. > > -Scott Schmidt > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another RV10 finished
From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Date: May 18, 2010
Congratulations Greg, that's awesome news! Can't wait to see your plane at OSH. Bring lots of plexi cleaner to wipe off the noseprints... :) Lenny greghale wrote: > N210KH has a brand new airworthiness certificate and ready to fly. Just waiting for the rain and storms in Oklahoma to stop. 40hours to go then Oshkosh. > > Greg Hale Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298060#298060 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Great Lakes RV Gathering
From: jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com
Date: May 18, 2010
For the last two years the four partners in N44YH have hosted a gathering of RV-10 builders for lunch at our hangar. We will be doing the same event this year, however since this is the third annual event Tony decided it was time for a name "Great Lakes RV Gathering". This is an informal gathering geared around meeting other builders and sharing tales of RV's. Lunch is on us, so if you are available please fell free to stop in, all RV builders welcome. No sales pitch or strings attached, just a chance to get together with other builders and share ideas, and stories. Date: Saturday 6/12/09 Time: 10:00, lunch at 12:00, break up after lunch (last year it ended around 3) Where: KSBM (Sheboygan County Memorial Airport) - Sheboygan Falls, WI Who: Family and friends welcome If you plan to attend please let me know so we can have enough to eat. Thanks, Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Wayne Elsner, Kyle Hokel, Tony Kolar, Jason Kreidler N44YH - #40617 - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Great Lakes RV Gathering
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: May 18, 2010
You can put me down for two, thanks. -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298076#298076 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: May 18, 2010
Subject: Great Lakes RV Gathering
Wish I could make it this year but that also coincides with some other st uff that's been on the calendar for a few weeks now. Hopefully next year. Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:40 AM Subject: RV10-List: Great Lakes RV Gathering For the last two years the four partners in N44YH have hosted a gathering o f RV-10 builders for lunch at our hangar. We will be doing the same event this year, however since this is the third annual event Tony decided it was time for a name "Great Lakes RV Gathering". This is an informal gathering geared around meeting other builders and sharing tales of RV's. Lunch is on us, so if you are available please fell free to stop in, all RV builders welcome. No sales pitch or strings attached, just a chance to get together with othe r builders and share ideas, and stories. Date: Saturday 6/12/09 Time: 10:00, lunch at 12:00, break up after lunch (last year it ended aroun d 3) Where: KSBM (Sheboygan County Memorial Airport) - Sheboygan Falls, WI Who: Family and friends welcome If you plan to attend please let me know so we can have enough to eat. Thanks, Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Wayne Elsner, Kyle Hokel, Tony Kolar, Jason Kreidler N44YH - #40617 - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Need a frank answer
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 18, 2010
Installing my panel the other day, I discovered that the maximum sized hole you can cut in the sub-panel for the radio rack (according to page 41-4) is insufficient for four typical radio rack components. Yet, I have seen many panels on display that have been able to accomplish this feat. Before I go back to the drawing board, I need an honest answer from somebody on how this can be accomplished - without compromising the structural integrity required on 41-4. Here's the situation: PS 9000X, 430W, SL-40, GTX-330. They all stick through the sub-panel (the PS doesn't, but try putting a connector on the back with a turn radius). The real issue is the bottom inch or so of the sub-panel has to be cut for the GTX-330 to fit, unless you move the entire stack to the absolute top of the panel, which brings up other unwanted issues. Cutting that bottom inch is unthinkable, but it's obvious some of you have found a way around this. What is it? I had a friend suggest a "C" channel all the way across the bottom of the sub-panel flange, where only the tiny flange is still intact. Assuming this is good engineering, has it been done? I realize some folks will want to hedge on this, but I'd appreciate any "hear-say" that you might have heard.... Respectfully, John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298130#298130 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Great Lakes RV Gathering
From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: May 18, 2010
Jason, Count me as a maybe - I'll try to make it but there's a possibility that some things at work will preclude my attendance... Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298139#298139 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Need a frank answer
Date: May 18, 2010
Tim did this, check out his site and the panel section great pictures to show how he did it. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:25 PM Subject: RV10-List: Need a frank answer > > Installing my panel the other day, I discovered that the maximum sized > hole you can cut in the sub-panel for the radio rack (according to page > 41-4) is insufficient for four typical radio rack components. Yet, I have > seen many panels on display that have been able to accomplish this feat. > Before I go back to the drawing board, I need an honest answer from > somebody on how this can be accomplished - without compromising the > structural integrity required on 41-4. > > Here's the situation: PS 9000X, 430W, SL-40, GTX-330. They all stick > through the sub-panel (the PS doesn't, but try putting a connector on the > back with a turn radius). The real issue is the bottom inch or so of the > sub-panel has to be cut for the GTX-330 to fit, unless you move the entire > stack to the absolute top of the panel, which brings up other unwanted > issues. > Cutting that bottom inch is unthinkable, but it's obvious some of you have > found a way around this. What is it? I had a friend suggest a "C" channel > all the way across the bottom of the sub-panel flange, where only the tiny > flange is still intact. Assuming this is good engineering, has it been > done? > > I realize some folks will want to hedge on this, but I'd appreciate any > "hear-say" that you might have heard.... > > Respectfully, > John > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298130#298130 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Need a frank answer
Date: May 18, 2010
I put on a .020 doubler angle on the front, and an .063 extruded AL piece on the back all the way across the width of the sub panel. The front angle ties to the vertical bulkheads, the rear butts next to them. No real engineering analysis done, but it worked in my buddies -10 for 300+ hours and I'm doing the same. This really stiffens up this area. YMMV -Mike This view is aft of the sub panel looking foreward and down This view is fore of the sub panel looking back. Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2010, at 9:25 PM, "johngoodman" wrote: > > > > Installing my panel the other day, I discovered that the maximum > sized hole you can cut in the sub-panel for the radio rack > (according to page 41-4) is insufficient for four typical radio rack > components. Yet, I have seen many panels on display that have been > able to accomplish this feat. > Before I go back to the drawing board, I need an honest answer from > somebody on how this can be accomplished - without compromising the > structural integrity required on 41-4. > > Here's the situation: PS 9000X, 430W, SL-40, GTX-330. They all stick > through the sub-panel (the PS doesn't, but try putting a connector > on the back with a turn radius). The real issue is the bottom inch > or so of the sub-panel has to be cut for the GTX-330 to fit, unless > you move the entire stack to the absolute top of the panel, which > brings up other unwanted issues. > Cutting that bottom inch is unthinkable, but it's obvious some of > you have found a way around this. What is it? I had a friend suggest > a "C" channel all the way across the bottom of the sub-panel flange, > where only the tiny flange is still intact. Assuming this is good > engineering, has it been done? > > I realize some folks will want to hedge on this, but I'd appreciate > any "hear-say" that you might have heard.... > > Respectfully, > John > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298130#298130 > >

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: May 18, 2010
Subject: Need a frank answer
Maybe the new versions of the manual are different than mine (original rev 0), the only guidance is that you need to reinforce with 3/4" .063 angle. According to some info I had collected before doing mine, the total stack height you're looking at is 6.88" (I've got the same stack height). The angle technique is actually described on page 41-3 on my revision. Bob RV-10 N442PM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: Need a frank answer Installing my panel the other day, I discovered that the maximum sized hole you can cut in the sub-panel for the radio rack (according to page 41-4) is insufficient for four typical radio rack components. Yet, I have seen many panels on display that have been able to accomplish this feat. Before I go back to the drawing board, I need an honest answer from somebody on how this can be accomplished - without compromising the structural integrity required on 41-4. Here's the situation: PS 9000X, 430W, SL-40, GTX-330. They all stick through the sub-panel (the PS doesn't, but try putting a connector on the back with a turn radius). The real issue is the bottom inch or so of the sub-panel has to be cut for the GTX-330 to fit, unless you move the entire stack to the absolute top of the panel, which brings up other unwanted issues. Cutting that bottom inch is unthinkable, but it's obvious some of you have found a way around this. What is it? I had a friend suggest a "C" channel all the way across the bottom of the sub-panel flange, where only the tiny flange is still intact. Assuming this is good engineering, has it been done? I realize some folks will want to hedge on this, but I'd appreciate any "hear-say" that you might have heard.... Respectfully, John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298130#298130 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: EGT probes
Date: May 19, 2010
I talked to Sandy and the very low reading indicates it is open and reading the temp of the internal EIS. My number two was like that and when removed was burn off to 3/8" I sent the list a picture recently. I am going to buy a set of EI quick response probes. I have been assured that they will work in place of the GRT probes (we will see). Got a good quote. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcus Cooper To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:56 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: EGT probes It's probably been covered, but what where your indications of a probe failure? I've got one on the fritz reading a constant very low temp but I don't know if it's the wiring or the probe gone bad. I also have the GRT setup and 450 hours TT. Thanks, Marcus From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:50 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: EGT probes Any suggestions for long life EGT probes? I have 278 TT on my RV10 and have replaced 3 EGT probes from GRT. Failures have been on 6 then 4 (or 2) then 1. #2 failed this morning. Some are the original GRT EIS probes and some are their allegedly long life probes. I lost the third one on a trip to IL and GRT FEDEXed two "long life" probes to IL. I changed #1 and kept the spare. This morning on a local training flight, #2 failed (again?). Probes are located 2 inches below the exhaust port (specs call 2-6"). EGTs normally see high 1300 /low 1400 in cruise. takeoff and climb EGTs are 1200-1350. At altitude the LOP operation usually provided CHTs (275-325) and EGTs (1360-1410). GEM probes on a previous aircraft (TC177RG) were rated for 1650 F red line and since my normal operation was about EGTs at 1400. I replaced two probes in 29 years of ownership and 2500 hours. I have now replaced 4 GRT probes in 278 hours. I am considering a completely new set of Alcor or GEM probes - The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much --> http://www.matronic================ - content also available via the Web --> http://forums.matronics.comstyle='mso-spacerun:yes'> - List Contribution Web Site style='mso-spacerun:yes'> Thank you for your generous style='mso-spacerun:yes'> -Matt style='mso-spacerun:yes'> --> http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 19, 2010
Bill, I tried for two months with no results. I do know that the principal owner died and that it was a family owned/operated business. I finally gave up under the assumption that the business is apparently falling apart. John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298244#298244 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Seat belt sources and finishing of hardpoint
I have replicated the front seat hardpoints in the rear so all 4 shoulder belts will attach to the canopy top with single NAS 517-5-9 bolts. (I did not do the AMSAFE installation required for their inertial reels. I did dig out the hole from the inside, scarfed the outer surface and built up the hardpoint with layers of cloth and filled rest of thickness with flox) Question 1: I have a nice tan/brown Flightline interior and would like to matching belts - any suggestions on sources? The Vans belts would be fine if available in the right color. Question 2: I want to glass the bolts into place but I'm worried if I do that, will mounting the seatbelt fracture the glass? Or is the bolt being left flush and uncovered? What have others done? How has it worked? Thanks. Bill "Jumping around from fiberglass task to FG task trying to figure out how to get to paint" Watson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need a frank answer
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 19, 2010
I want to thank everyone for the responses and private messages. I think that I've got a way out, because of the wording on 41-3. It actually says you can skip the lower horizontal angle if you cut below 3/4" of remaining metal; I was assuming that the 3/4" was sacrosanct. It sounds nuts - and I plan on talking with Vans about it - but I'm now guessing that my friend's idea of an angle or "c" channel the length of the very bottom flange would do the trick. If Vans says differently, I'll let everyone know. Again, thanks for the replies. John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298247#298247 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2010
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Fwd: RV-List: AEIO-540 Parallel Valve Engine For Sale
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RV-List: AEIO-540 Parallel Valve Engine For Sale Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:58:26 -0700 From: Tom Gummo <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> Anybody follow the Red Bull Air Races the last couple of years, Mike Mangold has his spare engine from his race days for sale. 5 hours since Performance Engines rebuild. 320 HP, 10:1 machined ECI pistons and cylinders Narrow deck. Lots of extras. I am not on the RV-10 list, so would someone please let them know that this engine is available. He was asking 38,000 but has dropped to 36,000 USD. (Claims to have over 45,000 in the engine) If there is any interest, I can copy and sent a PDF of the description of all the engine components and the contact info for Mike. The engine is "preserved" and has a large wooden crate for shipping and is located at Apple Valley (APV), CA. Tom "GummiBear" Gummo Harmon Rocket II N561FS 375 hours and still smiling Air Boss for the Sept 25, 2010 Apple Valley Air Show * * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 19, 2010
Not true. Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. grumpy N184JM On May 19, 2010, at 8:18 PM, johngoodman wrote: > > > > Bill, > I tried for two months with no results. I do know that the principal > owner died and that it was a family owned/operated business. I > finally gave up under the assumption that the business is apparently > falling apart. > John > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298244#298244 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 19, 2010
About how much does he charge to paint an RV10? Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2010, at 8:54 PM, Miller John wrote: > > Not true. > > Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. > > Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. > > grumpy > N184JM > > On May 19, 2010, at 8:18 PM, johngoodman wrote: > >> > >> >> Bill, >> I tried for two months with no results. I do know that the >> principal owner died and that it was a family owned/operated >> business. I finally gave up under the assumption that the business >> is apparently falling apart. >> John >> >> -------- >> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel >> N711JG reserved >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298244#298244 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 19, 2010
Varies depending on how much prep work he has to do. On May 19, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Kevin Belue wrote: > > About how much does he charge to paint an RV10? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 19, 2010, at 8:54 PM, Miller John wrote: > >> >> Not true. >> >> Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. >> >> Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. >> >> grumpy >> N184JM >> >> On May 19, 2010, at 8:18 PM, johngoodman wrote: >> >>> > >>> >>> Bill, >>> I tried for two months with no results. I do know that the >>> principal owner died and that it was a family owned/operated >>> business. I finally gave up under the assumption that the business >>> is apparently falling apart. >>> John >>> >>> -------- >>> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel >>> N711JG reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298244#298244 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 19, 2010
Grumpy, I apologize if I have made a false statement. I was merely responding to Bill that I had the same experience he has had, and gave my assumption that prompted me to quit calling. John > Not true. > > Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. > > Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. > > grumpy > N184JM -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298256#298256 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Seat belt sources and finishing of hardpoint
From: "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Date: May 19, 2010
Bill, I have the same interior from Flightline. The Hooker belts are a very close color match. Can't help you with question 2. Jim Berry 40482 N15JB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298261#298261 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 19, 2010
I used thier paint on my RV with mixed results. Loved the wonderfil and primer, the paint was very hard to control the orange peel but we kept it to a minimum by careful ratios of thinner. That said the paint buffs and colors sands like a champ. Mike's dad passed away in the middle of my paint project but I was always able to get his wife on the phone to order more supplies. They were good to deal with and I can't fault them on my experience. FWIW wonderfil is an Akzo Noble product packaged by Loehle. I used both and if they aren't the same stuff then sue me. If I had to do it again (I'm planning to) I would use a Dupont base/clear system, much more tolerant to temps. Flamers back off, I have lots of time behind a spray gun to make that call. The reason I went with Loehle was it's was single stage poly and I know what a bitch it is to touch up basecoat/clearcoat. Rick Sked N246RS Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2010, at 7:16 PM, "johngoodman" wrote: > > > > Grumpy, > I apologize if I have made a false statement. I was merely > responding to Bill that I had the same experience he has had, and > gave my assumption that prompted me to quit calling. > John > > >> Not true. >> >> Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. >> >> Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. >> >> grumpy >> N184JM > > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298256#298256 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Seat belt sources and finishing of hardpoint
Date: May 19, 2010
Hey Bill, Question #2. I cut a slot in the head, imbeded a pop rivet stem in it to keep it from turning, and glassed it over -- got the idea here -- and it is still invisible from the outside, no cracks. And I can't imagine needing to access it unless something really bad happened. Wes has finished his fly-off time and is REALLY turning up the heat to get me to fly with him. Maybe if you came down and flew with him, I'd get a break! :-) Later, - Lew ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
I did make contact with Sandy and placed an order. Thanks all. I'm going to use their Wonderfill product and filler for the initial FG prep. I'm still on the fence on urethane paint - single stage versus base/clear coat (Loehle). Single stage just seems easier with comparable results. However, I'd love to re-finish my Maule with Loehle's product but I'm just dreaming... Bill. Miller John wrote: > > Not true. > > Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. > > Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. > > grumpy > N184JM > > On May 19, 2010, at 8:18 PM, johngoodman wrote: > >> >> >> Bill, >> I tried for two months with no results. I do know that the principal >> owner died and that it was a family owned/operated business. I >> finally gave up under the assumption that the business is apparently >> falling apart. >> John >> >> -------- >> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel >> N711JG reserved >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298244#298244 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Maybe I'm confused or their product has evolved, but Loehle describes their paint product as a bc/cc product now. Sandy says that you can just use the base coat like a single stage but recommends the clear coat. Anyway Rick, maybe you can shed a little light on paint for me. It kind of dawned on me that having a local distributor to work with could be valuable. So I've visited a couple - one distributing BASF products, another Dupont. I talked to the Dupont guy and asked about the aircraft line of coatings. After some research, he came back and said that he doesn't really have access/experience with those but he recommended some of their top of the line auto type coatings (Elite I think) saying they were close to equivalent. He also told me who could sell me the aircraft stuff but they were all out of state. Using a good auto paint from Dupont or PPG or BASF sounds like a sound strategy to me. Having said that, Loehle has put together a great "how-to" package and is clearly focused on the experimental AC market. I'd feel comfortable working with them and their products simply because they know exactly what I'm trying to do. Can you say a bit more about how you'd do it next time and why? Especially why Dupont bc/cc versus Dupont single stage? Bill "learning that painting is a whole 'nother world and kind of looking forward to the challenge" Watson Rick wrote: > > I used thier paint on my RV with mixed results. Loved the wonderfil > and primer, the paint was very hard to control the orange peel but we > kept it to a minimum by careful ratios of thinner. That said the paint > buffs and colors sands like a champ. Mike's dad passed away in the > middle of my paint project but I was always able to get his wife on > the phone to order more supplies. They were good to deal with and I > can't fault them on my experience. FWIW wonderfil is an Akzo Noble > product packaged by Loehle. I used both and if they aren't the same > stuff then sue me. If I had to do it again (I'm planning to) I would > use a Dupont base/clear system, much more tolerant to temps. Flamers > back off, I have lots of time behind a spray gun to make that call. > The reason I went with Loehle was it's was single stage poly and I > know what a bitch it is to touch up basecoat/clearcoat. > > Rick Sked > N246RS > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 19, 2010, at 7:16 PM, "johngoodman" > wrote: > >> >> >> Grumpy, >> I apologize if I have made a false statement. I was merely responding >> to Bill that I had the same experience he has had, and gave my >> assumption that prompted me to quit calling. >> John >> >> >>> Not true. >>> >>> Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. >>> >>> Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. >>> >>> grumpy >>> N184JM >> >> >> -------- >> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel >> N711JG reserved >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298256#298256 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 20, 2010
I can tell you from personal experience that the paint system really works well for beginners as well as pros. I have never painted before and my -10 is coming out really well. i was concerned about the orange peel I was gett ing. But it sands out easily. One of my friends had a pro do his and they j ust shot the clear coat over the orange peel and it looks great. Unbelievab le how shiny it gets. I'm using a lot of black (which is the hardest color to make look good) and it's so shiny with the top coat on you could shave i n the shine. If I can do it so could most folks. Now if I can find a way to keep the damn bugs off of it. You'd think it was sugar the way the bugs sh ow up right after you spray! > Date: Thu=2C 20 May 2010 11:04:45 -0400 > From: MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Contact for Loehle products > rr.com> > > I did make contact with Sandy and placed an order. Thanks all. > > I'm going to use their Wonderfill product and filler for the initial FG > prep. I'm still on the fence on urethane paint - single stage versus > base/clear coat (Loehle). Single stage just seems easier with > comparable results. However=2C I'd love to re-finish my Maule with > Loehle's product but I'm just dreaming... > > Bill. > > Miller John wrote: > > > > Not true. > > > > Mike's dad passed away=2C but Mike and Sandy are working hard. > > > > Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. > > > > grumpy > > N184JM > > > > On May 19=2C 2010=2C at 8:18 PM=2C johngoodman wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Bill=2C > >> I tried for two months with no results. I do know that the principal > >> owner died and that it was a family owned/operated business. I > >> finally gave up under the assumption that the business is apparently > >> falling apart. > >> John > >> > >> -------- > >> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > >> N711JG reserved > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298244#298244 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H otmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: May 20, 2010
Subject: Continental Motors Reveals Jet-A-Burning
>From Flying Magazine online Continental Motors Reveals Jet-A-Burning Piston Slapper Teledyne Continental Motors (TCM) has unveiled a two-engine project that will bring jet fuel to the light-aircraft industry. The first, a 230-hp four-cylinder engine is expected to be certified next year. A follow-on six-cylinder, 350-hp version could follow as soon as two years later. TCM said the engine program stems from acquired technology =97 but would not identify which European company the already certified engine technology cam e from. (According to an article on AvWeb, the TCM engine bears a striking resemblance to the SMA SR305.) Under the license agreement with the origina l maker, TCM now has free rein to further develop the existing engine as it sees fit. The company has said it expects the new engines to cost not much more than their gasoline-burning counterparts in the same power range. TCM' s version is currently undergoing tests on a static test stand and in flight on a Cessna 182 Skylane. Specific fuel consumption (sfc) of the new engines is said to be in the .36 range. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Their paint is a two part polyurethane with an optional clear coat. I do recommend the clear coat for durability and overall shine and the ability to sand and polish any blemishes. The paint has pretty high solid count and requires precise thinning with the correct temp thinner. I can tell you if you try to spray with the temps in the 80's with thinner rated at 75 you can't just add more thinner, you need to buy thinner from them for 80 degrees. More of a hassle than anything. I started painting in mid April and finished the first part of June. In Las Vegas that meant I needed four different temperature ranges of thinner. I think their product is OK, I do think there are better options out there if for the only reason to have a local supplier and technical source nearby. I have shot several other systems and unless I read their application instructions wrong it was one of the most temperamental paints I've used. Standard basecoat/clearcoat is a flat color, high gloss clear. Loehle is NOT a standard basecoat/clearcoat. Their clear is much thicker than normal but it really shot OK, DuPont clearcoat is thinner and you need some practice to get it to flow just right before it runs, but it's not that bad. One thing about painting airplanes vs. cars I've done, there are a bunch more sides/corners/concave/convex surfaces to deal with, a hose tender/painting partner a must, and I credit my success to my friend Shane McMurray. He has been a painter for years and without his help I don't know if we could have overcome the initial orange peel. I thought maybe it was the spray rig but we painted the wheel pants with DuPont single stage poly and they came our great. Grumpys plane looks fantastic and Mike knows his product best and that played a big factor. The best part about painting myself is the paint job cost me just under $4000.00 in material, that includes building a paint booth from PVC and visqueen and lots of masking and sanding materials. It also took twice as long as I thought. So to make a long story shor! t. I wou ld use another product next time, but I do like the filler, and you have options on that as well. http://www.anac.com/products/DataSheets/28c1.pdf Rick Sked N246RS ---- Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > > Maybe I'm confused or their product has evolved, but Loehle describes > their paint product as a bc/cc product now. Sandy says that you can > just use the base coat like a single stage but recommends the clear coat. > > Anyway Rick, maybe you can shed a little light on paint for me. It kind > of dawned on me that having a local distributor to work with could be > valuable. So I've visited a couple - one distributing BASF products, > another Dupont. I talked to the Dupont guy and asked about the aircraft > line of coatings. After some research, he came back and said that he > doesn't really have access/experience with those but he recommended some > of their top of the line auto type coatings (Elite I think) saying they > were close to equivalent. He also told me who could sell me the > aircraft stuff but they were all out of state. Using a good auto paint > from Dupont or PPG or BASF sounds like a sound strategy to me. > > Having said that, Loehle has put together a great "how-to" package and > is clearly focused on the experimental AC market. I'd feel comfortable > working with them and their products simply because they know exactly > what I'm trying to do. > > Can you say a bit more about how you'd do it next time and why? > Especially why Dupont bc/cc versus Dupont single stage? > > Bill "learning that painting is a whole 'nother world and kind of > looking forward to the challenge" Watson > > Rick wrote: > > > > I used thier paint on my RV with mixed results. Loved the wonderfil > > and primer, the paint was very hard to control the orange peel but we > > kept it to a minimum by careful ratios of thinner. That said the paint > > buffs and colors sands like a champ. Mike's dad passed away in the > > middle of my paint project but I was always able to get his wife on > > the phone to order more supplies. They were good to deal with and I > > can't fault them on my experience. FWIW wonderfil is an Akzo Noble > > product packaged by Loehle. I used both and if they aren't the same > > stuff then sue me. If I had to do it again (I'm planning to) I would > > use a Dupont base/clear system, much more tolerant to temps. Flamers > > back off, I have lots of time behind a spray gun to make that call. > > The reason I went with Loehle was it's was single stage poly and I > > know what a bitch it is to touch up basecoat/clearcoat. > > > > Rick Sked > > N246RS > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On May 19, 2010, at 7:16 PM, "johngoodman" > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Grumpy, > >> I apologize if I have made a false statement. I was merely responding > >> to Bill that I had the same experience he has had, and gave my > >> assumption that prompted me to quit calling. > >> John > >> > >> > >>> Not true. > >>> > >>> Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. > >>> > >>> Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. > >>> > >>> grumpy > >>> N184JM > >> > >> > >> -------- > >> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > >> N711JG reserved > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298256#298256 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Precision Grommets
From: "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 20, 2010
I recently bought a stainless grommet to use as a firewall passthru from Precision Grommets. It was in a spot where nothing else would fit due to other stuff being in the way. The part arrived a week ahead of the expected delivery date and the quality is very impressive. www.precision-grommets.com Regards, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298331#298331 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Precision Grommets
Very nice!! Wish I had known them a few years ago!! Rick ---- jayb wrote: > > I recently bought a stainless grommet to use as a firewall passthru from Precision Grommets. It was in a spot where nothing else would fit due to other stuff being in the way. > > The part arrived a week ahead of the expected delivery date and the quality is very impressive. > > www.precision-grommets.com > > Regards, > Jay > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298331#298331 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: christopher johnston <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 20, 2010
Can you use Lohle's primer and a standard single stage poly over it? I asked Lohle when I spoke with them, but they were obviously pushing the use of their paint. I really like their wonderfill and primer, but I've heard mixed reviews about the paint. I'm a fairly poor painter (you can tell when I've painted a car, because my signature - a nice big run - is usually in evidence) and I need all the help I can get with ease of use. c On May 20, 2010, at 9:06 AM, ricksked(at)cox.net wrote: > > Their paint is a two part polyurethane with an optional clear coat. > I do recommend the clear coat for durability and overall shine and > the ability to sand and polish any blemishes. The paint has pretty > high solid count and requires precise thinning with the correct temp > thinner. I can tell you if you try to spray with the temps in the > 80's with thinner rated at 75 you can't just add more thinner, you > need to buy thinner from them for 80 degrees. More of a hassle than > anything. I started painting in mid April and finished the first > part of June. In Las Vegas that meant I needed four different > temperature ranges of thinner. I think their product is OK, I do > think there are better options out there if for the only reason to > have a local supplier and technical source nearby. I have shot > several other systems and unless I read their application > instructions wrong it was one of the most temperamental paints I've > used. Standard basecoat/clearcoat is a flat color, high gloss clear. ! > Loehle is NOT a standard basecoat/clearcoat. Their clear is much > thicker than normal but it really shot OK, DuPont clearcoat is > thinner and you need some practice to get it to flow just right > before it runs, but it's not that bad. One thing about painting > airplanes vs. cars I've done, there are a bunch more sides/corners/ > concave/convex surfaces to deal with, a hose tender/painting partner > a must, and I credit my success to my friend Shane McMurray. He has > been a painter for years and without his help I don't know if we > could have overcome the initial orange peel. I thought maybe it was > the spray rig but we painted the wheel pants with DuPont single > stage poly and they came our great. Grumpys plane looks fantastic > and Mike knows his product best and that played a big factor. The > best part about painting myself is the paint job cost me just under > $4000.00 in material, that includes building a paint booth from PVC > and visqueen and lots of masking and sanding materials. It also! > took twice as long as I thought. So to make a long story shor! > t. I wou > ld use another product next time, but I do like the filler, and you > have options on that as well. > > http://www.anac.com/products/DataSheets/28c1.pdf > > Rick Sked > N246RS > ---- Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: >> > >> >> Maybe I'm confused or their product has evolved, but Loehle describes >> their paint product as a bc/cc product now. Sandy says that you can >> just use the base coat like a single stage but recommends the clear >> coat. >> >> Anyway Rick, maybe you can shed a little light on paint for me. It >> kind >> of dawned on me that having a local distributor to work with could be >> valuable. So I've visited a couple - one distributing BASF products, >> another Dupont. I talked to the Dupont guy and asked about the >> aircraft >> line of coatings. After some research, he came back and said that he >> doesn't really have access/experience with those but he recommended >> some >> of their top of the line auto type coatings (Elite I think) saying >> they >> were close to equivalent. He also told me who could sell me the >> aircraft stuff but they were all out of state. Using a good auto >> paint >> from Dupont or PPG or BASF sounds like a sound strategy to me. >> >> Having said that, Loehle has put together a great "how-to" package >> and >> is clearly focused on the experimental AC market. I'd feel >> comfortable >> working with them and their products simply because they know exactly >> what I'm trying to do. >> >> Can you say a bit more about how you'd do it next time and why? >> Especially why Dupont bc/cc versus Dupont single stage? >> >> Bill "learning that painting is a whole 'nother world and kind of >> looking forward to the challenge" Watson >> >> Rick wrote: >>> >>> I used thier paint on my RV with mixed results. Loved the wonderfil >>> and primer, the paint was very hard to control the orange peel but >>> we >>> kept it to a minimum by careful ratios of thinner. That said the >>> paint >>> buffs and colors sands like a champ. Mike's dad passed away in the >>> middle of my paint project but I was always able to get his wife on >>> the phone to order more supplies. They were good to deal with and I >>> can't fault them on my experience. FWIW wonderfil is an Akzo Noble >>> product packaged by Loehle. I used both and if they aren't the same >>> stuff then sue me. If I had to do it again (I'm planning to) I would >>> use a Dupont base/clear system, much more tolerant to temps. Flamers >>> back off, I have lots of time behind a spray gun to make that call. >>> The reason I went with Loehle was it's was single stage poly and I >>> know what a bitch it is to touch up basecoat/clearcoat. >>> >>> Rick Sked >>> N246RS >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 19, 2010, at 7:16 PM, "johngoodman" >> > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Grumpy, >>>> I apologize if I have made a false statement. I was merely >>>> responding >>>> to Bill that I had the same experience he has had, and gave my >>>> assumption that prompted me to quit calling. >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>>> Not true. >>>>> >>>>> Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. >>>>> >>>>> Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. >>>>> >>>>> grumpy >>>>> N184JM >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel >>>> N711JG reserved >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298256#298256 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Chris Johnston (CJ) Re-recording Mixer POP Sound 625 Arizona Ave. Santa Monica, CA 90401 310.587.1255 (direct) 310.587.1222 (fax) cjohnston(at)popsound.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
I used a DuPont over their primer on the pants...BUT....Every paint manufacturer out there will tell you to not mix brands, I did a test and it worked, and I may have been just lucky I picked a paint that did work...YMMV. My advice is pick a system and use only that brand of paint from start to finish. Rick ---- christopher johnston wrote: > Can you use Lohle's primer and a standard single stage poly over it? > I asked Lohle when I spoke with them, but they were obviously pushing > the use of their paint. I really like their wonderfill and primer, > but I've heard mixed reviews about the paint. I'm a fairly poor > painter (you can tell when I've painted a car, because my signature - > a nice big run - is usually in evidence) and I need all the help I can > get with ease of use. > > c > > On May 20, 2010, at 9:06 AM, ricksked(at)cox.net wrote: > > > > > Their paint is a two part polyurethane with an optional clear coat. > > I do recommend the clear coat for durability and overall shine and > > the ability to sand and polish any blemishes. The paint has pretty > > high solid count and requires precise thinning with the correct temp > > thinner. I can tell you if you try to spray with the temps in the > > 80's with thinner rated at 75 you can't just add more thinner, you > > need to buy thinner from them for 80 degrees. More of a hassle than > > anything. I started painting in mid April and finished the first > > part of June. In Las Vegas that meant I needed four different > > temperature ranges of thinner. I think their product is OK, I do > > think there are better options out there if for the only reason to > > have a local supplier and technical source nearby. I have shot > > several other systems and unless I read their application > > instructions wrong it was one of the most temperamental paints I've > > used. Standard basecoat/clearcoat is a flat color, high gloss clear. ! > > Loehle is NOT a standard basecoat/clearcoat. Their clear is much > > thicker than normal but it really shot OK, DuPont clearcoat is > > thinner and you need some practice to get it to flow just right > > before it runs, but it's not that bad. One thing about painting > > airplanes vs. cars I've done, there are a bunch more sides/corners/ > > concave/convex surfaces to deal with, a hose tender/painting partner > > a must, and I credit my success to my friend Shane McMurray. He has > > been a painter for years and without his help I don't know if we > > could have overcome the initial orange peel. I thought maybe it was > > the spray rig but we painted the wheel pants with DuPont single > > stage poly and they came our great. Grumpys plane looks fantastic > > and Mike knows his product best and that played a big factor. The > > best part about painting myself is the paint job cost me just under > > $4000.00 in material, that includes building a paint booth from PVC > > and visqueen and lots of masking and sanding materials. It also! > > took twice as long as I thought. So to make a long story shor! > > t. I wou > > ld use another product next time, but I do like the filler, and you > > have options on that as well. > > > > http://www.anac.com/products/DataSheets/28c1.pdf > > > > Rick Sked > > N246RS > > ---- Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > >> > > >> > >> Maybe I'm confused or their product has evolved, but Loehle describes > >> their paint product as a bc/cc product now. Sandy says that you can > >> just use the base coat like a single stage but recommends the clear > >> coat. > >> > >> Anyway Rick, maybe you can shed a little light on paint for me. It > >> kind > >> of dawned on me that having a local distributor to work with could be > >> valuable. So I've visited a couple - one distributing BASF products, > >> another Dupont. I talked to the Dupont guy and asked about the > >> aircraft > >> line of coatings. After some research, he came back and said that he > >> doesn't really have access/experience with those but he recommended > >> some > >> of their top of the line auto type coatings (Elite I think) saying > >> they > >> were close to equivalent. He also told me who could sell me the > >> aircraft stuff but they were all out of state. Using a good auto > >> paint > >> from Dupont or PPG or BASF sounds like a sound strategy to me. > >> > >> Having said that, Loehle has put together a great "how-to" package > >> and > >> is clearly focused on the experimental AC market. I'd feel > >> comfortable > >> working with them and their products simply because they know exactly > >> what I'm trying to do. > >> > >> Can you say a bit more about how you'd do it next time and why? > >> Especially why Dupont bc/cc versus Dupont single stage? > >> > >> Bill "learning that painting is a whole 'nother world and kind of > >> looking forward to the challenge" Watson > >> > >> Rick wrote: > >>> > >>> I used thier paint on my RV with mixed results. Loved the wonderfil > >>> and primer, the paint was very hard to control the orange peel but > >>> we > >>> kept it to a minimum by careful ratios of thinner. That said the > >>> paint > >>> buffs and colors sands like a champ. Mike's dad passed away in the > >>> middle of my paint project but I was always able to get his wife on > >>> the phone to order more supplies. They were good to deal with and I > >>> can't fault them on my experience. FWIW wonderfil is an Akzo Noble > >>> product packaged by Loehle. I used both and if they aren't the same > >>> stuff then sue me. If I had to do it again (I'm planning to) I would > >>> use a Dupont base/clear system, much more tolerant to temps. Flamers > >>> back off, I have lots of time behind a spray gun to make that call. > >>> The reason I went with Loehle was it's was single stage poly and I > >>> know what a bitch it is to touch up basecoat/clearcoat. > >>> > >>> Rick Sked > >>> N246RS > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On May 19, 2010, at 7:16 PM, "johngoodman" >>> > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Grumpy, > >>>> I apologize if I have made a false statement. I was merely > >>>> responding > >>>> to Bill that I had the same experience he has had, and gave my > >>>> assumption that prompted me to quit calling. > >>>> John > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Not true. > >>>>> > >>>>> Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. > >>>>> > >>>>> Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. > >>>>> > >>>>> grumpy > >>>>> N184JM > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------- > >>>> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > >>>> N711JG reserved > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Read this topic online here: > >>>> > >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298256#298256 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris Johnston (CJ) > Re-recording Mixer > POP Sound > 625 Arizona Ave. > Santa Monica, CA 90401 > 310.587.1255 (direct) > 310.587.1222 (fax) > cjohnston(at)popsound.com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: Contact for Loehle products
Date: May 20, 2010
I'd like to chime in here. I am using Loehle's system, though I haven't shot any of the topcoat or clear yet so I certainly can't comment on that aspect of it. I chose Loehle because of his well written, easy to understand "homebuilder" centric documents on painting both fiberglass and aluminum airplanes and for his willingness to spend time on the phone with me answering all of my finicky little questions. Though I haven't called in 6 weeks or so, I've never had a problem getting ahold of him or having a call returned in a reasonable amount of time, and I plan to reward that service with as much business as I can give him. For me, Loehle is to paint what Sein is to the panel. Please take what I say here knowing that I've got no prior painting experience... so nothing to compare this to, but one thing I have learned is that your ability to see high/low and rough spots is half the battle. Loehle's high build black primer for use on fiberglass parts made those spots stand out like a sore thumb. I have found that to be easily as valuable as the Wonder-fil. Loehle also started out formulating for painting fabric covered planes, so the paint is very flexible. Again, I've got nothing to compare this to, but I used Loehle's black as a base coat for the Zolatone I shot on the interior of my plane. I tested for compatibility by shooting that combination on a .008 20" x 26" aluminum plate (I've got a printing business). I can roll that thing in to a small tube with no signs of cracking. Anyway, there's my two cents. I'll report back when I shoot the topcoat. I'm guessing I'll have an easier time of it than Rick, where here in So Cal the temps are a bit more moderate than Lost Wages. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On May 20, 2010, at 9:06 AM, wrote: > > Their paint is a two part polyurethane with an optional clear coat. > I do recommend the clear coat for durability and overall shine and > the ability to sand and polish any blemishes. The paint has pretty > high solid count and requires precise thinning with the correct temp > thinner. I can tell you if you try to spray with the temps in the > 80's with thinner rated at 75 you can't just add more thinner, you > need to buy thinner from them for 80 degrees. More of a hassle than > anything. I started painting in mid April and finished the first > part of June. In Las Vegas that meant I needed four different > temperature ranges of thinner. I think their product is OK, I do > think there are better options out there if for the only reason to > have a local supplier and technical source nearby. I have shot > several other systems and unless I read their application > instructions wrong it was one of the most temperamental paints I've > used. Standard basecoat/clearcoat is a flat color, high gloss clear. ! > Loehle is NOT a standard basecoat/clearcoat. Their clear is much > thicker than normal but it really shot OK, DuPont clearcoat is > thinner and you need some practice to get it to flow just right > before it runs, but it's not that bad. One thing about painting > airplanes vs. cars I've done, there are a bunch more sides/corners/ > concave/convex surfaces to deal with, a hose tender/painting partner > a must, and I credit my success to my friend Shane McMurray. He has > been a painter for years and without his help I don't know if we > could have overcome the initial orange peel. I thought maybe it was > the spray rig but we painted the wheel pants with DuPont single > stage poly and they came our great. Grumpys plane looks fantastic > and Mike knows his product best and that played a big factor. The > best part about painting myself is the paint job cost me just under > $4000.00 in material, that includes building a paint booth from PVC > and visqueen and lots of masking and sanding materials. It also! > took twice as long as I thought. So to make a long story shor! > t. I wou > ld use another product next time, but I do like the filler, and you > have options on that as well. > > http://www.anac.com/products/DataSheets/28c1.pdf > > Rick Sked > N246RS > ---- Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: >> > >> >> Maybe I'm confused or their product has evolved, but Loehle describes >> their paint product as a bc/cc product now. Sandy says that you can >> just use the base coat like a single stage but recommends the clear >> coat. >> >> Anyway Rick, maybe you can shed a little light on paint for me. It >> kind >> of dawned on me that having a local distributor to work with could be >> valuable. So I've visited a couple - one distributing BASF products, >> another Dupont. I talked to the Dupont guy and asked about the >> aircraft >> line of coatings. After some research, he came back and said that he >> doesn't really have access/experience with those but he recommended >> some >> of their top of the line auto type coatings (Elite I think) saying >> they >> were close to equivalent. He also told me who could sell me the >> aircraft stuff but they were all out of state. Using a good auto >> paint >> from Dupont or PPG or BASF sounds like a sound strategy to me. >> >> Having said that, Loehle has put together a great "how-to" package >> and >> is clearly focused on the experimental AC market. I'd feel >> comfortable >> working with them and their products simply because they know exactly >> what I'm trying to do. >> >> Can you say a bit more about how you'd do it next time and why? >> Especially why Dupont bc/cc versus Dupont single stage? >> >> Bill "learning that painting is a whole 'nother world and kind of >> looking forward to the challenge" Watson >> >> Rick wrote: >>> >>> I used thier paint on my RV with mixed results. Loved the wonderfil >>> and primer, the paint was very hard to control the orange peel but >>> we >>> kept it to a minimum by careful ratios of thinner. That said the >>> paint >>> buffs and colors sands like a champ. Mike's dad passed away in the >>> middle of my paint project but I was always able to get his wife on >>> the phone to order more supplies. They were good to deal with and I >>> can't fault them on my experience. FWIW wonderfil is an Akzo Noble >>> product packaged by Loehle. I used both and if they aren't the same >>> stuff then sue me. If I had to do it again (I'm planning to) I would >>> use a Dupont base/clear system, much more tolerant to temps. Flamers >>> back off, I have lots of time behind a spray gun to make that call. >>> The reason I went with Loehle was it's was single stage poly and I >>> know what a bitch it is to touch up basecoat/clearcoat. >>> >>> Rick Sked >>> N246RS >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 19, 2010, at 7:16 PM, "johngoodman" >> > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Grumpy, >>>> I apologize if I have made a false statement. I was merely >>>> responding >>>> to Bill that I had the same experience he has had, and gave my >>>> assumption that prompted me to quit calling. >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>>> Not true. >>>>> >>>>> Mike's dad passed away, but Mike and Sandy are working hard. >>>>> >>>>> Mike painted my bird 2 years ago and did an outstanding job. >>>>> >>>>> grumpy >>>>> N184JM >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel >>>> N711JG reserved >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298256#298256 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cabin cover/tailcone joint
From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)AOL.COM>
Date: May 20, 2010
>From what I have seen, most guys are glassing over the joint between the aft cabin cover and the tailcone joint. I haven't yet found guidance for that in the plans anywhere. Is there guidance somewhere that I haven't found or is it builder's choice? -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298362#298362 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cabin cover/tailcone joint
Builders Choice. Deems Davis On 5/20/2010 2:38 PM, woxofswa wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" > > > From what I have seen, most guys are glassing over the joint between the aft cabin cover and the tailcone joint. > > I haven't yet found guidance for that in the plans anywhere. Is there guidance somewhere that I haven't found or is it builder's choice? > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298362#298362 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Cabin cover/tailcone joint
Date: May 20, 2010
You might want to consider glassing over all the rivets (solids or blinds) imbedded in fiberglass (lid and cowl?). If you don't, you can count on seeing them again in about a hundred hours or so. Rivet heads will pop through the paint. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Cabin cover/tailcone joint >From what I have seen, most guys are glassing over the joint between the aft cabin cover and the tailcone joint. I haven't yet found guidance for that in the plans anywhere. Is there guidance somewhere that I haven't found or is it builder's choice? -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298362#298362 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cabin cover/tailcone joint
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 20, 2010
You'll discover that there's a tiny angle change there anyway. Perfect for filling. Just run a couple of strips of tape a couple of inches away on either side for a stop so you don't have "feathering to infinity." John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298373#298373 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need a frank answer
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 20, 2010
Just to close this thread, I talked to tech support at Van's today. Short answer is: It's a VFR airplane, but if you guys want an IFR panel, you will have to cut some metal out of the sub-panel. There is no set rule, but the builder/engineer/god-like-creature must ensure that any resulting weakness due to cutting, is replaced with an equivalent structural integrity. "nough said - I'm cutting away what I need and putting in some impressive metal support that would make a structural engineer cry (in a good way). John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298377#298377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door handle label
From: "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 20, 2010
Group, Working to get the DAR out in a few days and one of the things he's mentioned is labeling in general but particularly labeling the "exit" sign :) Does anyone have any pictures of how you may have labeled the door handle? I have standard Vans setup. I'm guessing it'll be something like "push here" - Pull up. Thanks... getting close. Doug -------- Doug "Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298378#298378 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Door handle label
Date: May 20, 2010
My DAR never asked; no labels . I brief passengers about how to unlock seatbelts and we go to great lengths to demonstrate the door and pin check, Feel them all once before engine start and once before takeoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Door handle label > > Group, > Working to get the DAR out in a few days and one of the things he's > mentioned is labeling in general but particularly labeling the "exit" sign > :) > > Does anyone have any pictures of how you may have labeled the door handle? > I have standard Vans setup. I'm guessing it'll be something like "push > here" - Pull up. > > Thanks... getting close. > > Doug > > -------- > Doug > "Fools" are always more creative than process people and will > always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298378#298378 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need a frank answer
Date: May 20, 2010
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I noticed the ones that Bob Newman at TCW put into his RV-10. They look machined and very nice. Too bad they don't sell them. I think you could make something out of =BE" angle and do okay. But these sure would be nice. Here's the link.... http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/InstrumentPanel# And a few sneak peeks... Phil -----Original Message----- From: johngoodman [mailto:johngoodman(at)earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 6:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Need a frank answer Just to close this thread, I talked to tech support at Van's today. Short answer is: It's a VFR airplane, but if you guys want an IFR panel, you will have to cut some metal out of the sub-panel. There is no set rule, but the builder/engineer/god-like-creature must ensure that any resulting weakness due to cutting, is replaced with an equivalent structural integrity. "nough said - I'm cutting away what I need and putting in some impressive metal support that would make a structural engineer cry (in a good way). John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298377#298377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cabin cover/tailcone joint
From: John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
Showplanes is coming out with a composite transition all the way to the ver tical. Might even make it as nice as if Geoff had done it. John Cox From: DLM Sent: Thu 5/20/2010 4:24 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cabin cover/tailcone joint You might want to consider glassing over all the rivets (solids or blinds) imbedded in fiberglass (lid and cowl?). If you don't, you can count on seeing them again in about a hundred hours or so. Rivet heads will pop through the paint. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Cabin cover/tailcone joint >From what I have seen, most guys are glassing over the joint between the aft cabin cover and the tailcone joint. I haven't yet found guidance for that in the plans anywhere. Is there guidance somewhere that I haven't found or is it builder's choice? -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298362#298362 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Door handle label
From: "BrianNC" <EMINI2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
Isn't it kind of ridiculous to have to put an exit label on the doors in a two door airplane? I mean seriously. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298424#298424 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Door handle label
From: "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
n277dl wrote: > Group, > Working to get the DAR out in a few days and one of the things he's mentioned is labeling in general but particularly labeling the "exit" sign :) > > Does anyone have any pictures of how you may have labeled the door handle? I have standard Vans setup. I'm guessing it'll be something like "push here" - Pull up. > > Thanks... getting close. > > Doug Let me clarify before my sarcasm gets blown completely out of proportion... I'm pretty sure he's asking to label how to open the door not explicitly putting an exit sign on the door. I'm thinking my Brother label printer may be my best buddy during this inspection. (whoops... there goes that sarcasm again :) ) Still would like to see any pictures where anyone has labeled the door in any fashion. Doug -------- Doug "Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298429#298429 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Re: Door handle label
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
It would be interesting to know where the DAR gets this requirement. I suspect it comes from some FAR dealing with commercially operated aircraft. I've not seen a single engine type certificated aircraft with an exit label....but wasn't really looking for it either. I know I would have to buy a whole bunch of placards if I wanted to use my Mooney for Part 135 operations. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:04 AM, BrianNC wrote: > > Isn't it kind of ridiculous to have to put an exit label on the doors in a two door airplane? I mean seriously. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298424#298424 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Re: Door handle label
If you have access to design / layout software (I use Adobe Illustrator) you can layout all your markings / labels in any color, size and shape you wish. Then send the file to Stein and for something like $20.00/sheet he can reproduce the info on long lasting, UV resistant water floatable decals. Then just trim, drop in a glass of water, wait a few seconds slide off the backing and slide into position and let dry. It's about the easiest part of building a plane and can look ultra professional. On my next plane I plan on leaving my panel and breakers un-labeled and creating the graphics myself using this technique. This allows me flexibility if I choose to rearrange my breakers or switches etc... Attached are two photos of my labels applied in place. Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Continental Motors Reveals Jet-A-Burning
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 21, 2010
So, is it a diesel? Or multi-fuel? Sounds like a diesel. -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298486#298486 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Re: Continental Motors Reveals Jet-A-Burning
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Believed to be SMA diesel. Way too heavy for RV-10. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:23 PM, johngoodman wrote: > > So, is it a diesel? Or multi-fuel? Sounds like a diesel. > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298486#298486 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm34077(at)cox.net>
Subject: stab bulkhead cracks SB
Date: May 23, 2010
While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2010
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Subject: Re: stab bulkhead cracks SB
There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that went with the creation of the SB.  Just glad no one else found any.  John #40600 -- Sent from my Palm Pre On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM <dlm34077(at)cox.net> wrote: While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were stallin g the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall buffet. Whe n I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the cracks formi ng. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall pr ior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to us e this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: TT Hours?
Date: May 23, 2010
Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? Randy? We're at around 850 on N256H. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: > There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one else found any. John #40600 > > > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: > > While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. > > We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. > > Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: TT Hours?
Date: May 23, 2010
87 and down now for the first annual Rick S. N246RS Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? > Randy? We're at around 850 on N256H. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: > >> There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of >> history that went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one >> else found any. John #40600 >> >> >> >> -- Sent from my Palm Pre >> >> On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: >> >> While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were >> stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the >> prestall buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and >> elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 >> RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, >> this may be a reason for the cracks forming. We inspect each annual >> and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. >> >> We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the >> stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, >> therefore we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and >> subsequent shaking of the tail. >> >> Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: May 23, 2010
Subject: TT Hours?
Robin 150 Terrific hours N110EE Down for Alt upgrade to 70A & fixing small exhaust issue. Been flying my TurboLance II. Good plane but not the same thing as an RV. Robin[image: http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/turbolance2/images/Exterior/Turbo%20Lance%20II%20(18).JPG] *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint *Sent:* Sunday, May 23, 2010 5:30 PM *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com *Subject:* RV10-List: TT Hours? Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? Randy? We're at around 850 on N256H. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one else found any. John #40600 -- Sent from my Palm Pre ------------------------------ On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# * * * * * * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: TT Hours?
Date: May 23, 2010
300 and running smoothly . 661G Robert B Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 606 N. Carancahua Street Suite 1200 Corpus Christi, Texas 78476 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert(at)brunklaw.com On May 23, 2010, at 6:38 PM, Rick wrote: > 87 and down now for the first annual > > Rick S. > N246RS > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Jesse Saint > wrote: > >> Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? >> Randy? We're at around 850 on N256H. >> >> Jesse Saint >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >> Cell: 352-427-0285 >> Fax: 815-377-3694 >> >> On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: >> >>> There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of >>> history that went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one >>> else found any. John #40600 >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Sent from my Palm Pre >>> >>> On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: >>> >>> While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we >>> were stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the >>> prestall buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab >>> and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the >>> IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in >>> training, this may be a reason for the cracks forming. We inspect >>> each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. >>> >>> We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the >>> stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, >>> therefore we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and >>> subsequent shaking of the tail. >>> >>> Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: TT Hours?
Date: May 23, 2010
125 in two years. That is a little below my average before I started building, but I have gone a lot farther.....:) Rene' 801-721-6080 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 6:30 PM Subject: RV10-List: TT Hours? Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? Randy? We're at around 850 on N256H. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one else found any. John #40600 -- Sent from my Palm Pre _____ On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TT Hours?
Date: May 23, 2010
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
TWludXMgMTI4Ny4gOikgDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoNCkZy b206IFJvYmVydCBCcnVua2VuaG9lZmVyIDxyb2JlcnRicnVua0BtYWMuY29tPiANClRvOiBydjEw LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSA8cnYxMC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+IA0KU2VudDogU3Vu IE1heSAyMyAxODo0NDozNCAyMDEwDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBUVCBIb3Vycz8g DQoNCg0KMzAwIGFuZCBydW5uaW5nIHNtb290aGx5IC4gIA0KNjYxRw0KUm9iZXJ0IEINCg0KU2Vu dCBmcm9tIG15IGlQaG9uZQ0KDQpSb2JlcnQgRS4gQnJ1bmtlbmhvZWZlcg0KQnJ1bmtlbmhvZWZl ciBMYXcgRmlybSwgUC5DLiANCjYwNiBOLiBDYXJhbmNhaHVhIFN0cmVldA0KU3VpdGUgMTIwMCAN CkNvcnB1cyBDaHJpc3RpLCBUZXhhcyA3ODQ3Ng0KUGhvbmU6IDM2MS04ODgtODgwOA0KRmFjc2lt aWxlOiAzNjEtODg4LTY3NTMNCnJvYmVydEBicnVua2xhdy5jb20NCg0KT24gTWF5IDIzLCAyMDEw LCBhdCA2OjM4IFBNLCBSaWNrIDxyaWNrc2tlZEBjb3gubmV0PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KDQoNCgk4NyBh bmQgZG93biBub3cgZm9yIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBhbm51YWwNCgkNCglSaWNrIFMuDQoJTjI0NlJTDQoJ DQoNCglTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lDQoNCglPbiBNYXkgMjMsIDIwMTAsIGF0IDU6MzAgUE0s IEplc3NlIFNhaW50IDwgPG1haWx0bzpqZXNzZUBzYWludGF2aWF0aW9uLmNvbT4gamVzc2VAc2Fp bnRhdmlhdGlvbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KCQ0KCQ0KDQoJCVNwZWFraW5nIG9mIGhvdXJzLCBob3cg bWFueSBob3VycyBhcmUgcGVvcGxlIHVwIHRvPyAgVGltPyAgU2NvdHQ/ICBSYW5keT8gIFdlJ3Jl IGF0IGFyb3VuZCA4NTAgb24gTjI1NkguDQoNCgkJDQoJCUplc3NlIFNhaW50DQoJCVNhaW50IEF2 aWF0aW9uLCBJbmMuDQoJCTxtYWlsdG86amVzc2VAc2FpbnRhdmlhdGlvbi5jb20+IDxtYWlsdG86 amVzc2VAc2FpbnRhdmlhdGlvbi5jb20+IGplc3NlQHNhaW50YXZpYXRpb24uY29tDQoJCUNlbGw6 IDM1Mi00MjctMDI4NQ0KCQlGYXg6IDgxNS0zNzctMzY5NA0KDQoJCU9uIE1heSAyMywgMjAxMCwg YXQgNjozMiBQTSwgSm9obiBDb3ggd3JvdGU6DQoNCg0KCQkJVGhlcmUgd2VyZSBhIGxvdCBmZXdl ciB0aGFuIDEwMDAgaG91cnMgb24gTjIyMFJWIGFuZCBhIGxvdCBvZiBoaXN0b3J5IHRoYXQgd2Vu dCB3aXRoIHRoZSBjcmVhdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgU0IuICBKdXN0IGdsYWQgbm8gb25lIGVsc2UgZm91 bmQgYW55LiAgSm9obiAjNDA2MDANCgkJCQ0KCQkJDQoJCQkNCgkJCQ0KCQkJLS0gU2VudCBmcm9t IG15IFBhbG0gUHJlDQoNCgkJCQ0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0K CQkJT24gTWF5IDIzLCAyMDEwIDEyOjI4IFBNLCBETE0gPCA8bWFpbHRvOmRsbTM0MDc3QGNveC5u ZXQ+ICA8bWFpbHRvOmRsbTM0MDc3QGNveC5uZXQ+IGRsbTM0MDc3QGNveC5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOiAN CgkJCQ0KCQkJV2hpbGUgZ2l2aW5nIGEgYmlhbm51YWwgdG8gYSBmcmllbmQgaW4gdGhlIDEwIHRo aXMgbW9ybmluZywgd2Ugd2VyZSBzdGFsbGluZyB0aGUgYWlyY3JhZnQuIEF0IHRpbWVzIHdlIGdv dCBzbG93IGVub3VnaCB0byBnZXQgdGhlIHByZXN0YWxsIGJ1ZmZldC4gV2hlbiBJIGxvb2tlZCBi YWNrIGF0IHRoZSByaWdodCBob2l6b250YWwgc3RhYiBhbmQgZWxldmF0b3IsIEkgY291bGQgc2Vl IGEgbG90IG9mIG1vdmVtZW50LiBDb25zaWRlcmluZyB0aGF0IHRoZSBJTzM2MCBSVjEwICgyMjBS Vj8pIGhhZCAxMDAwKyBob3VycyBvZiBsYW5kaW5ncyBhbmQgc3RhbGxzIGluIHRyYWluaW5nLCB0 aGlzIG1heSBiZSBhIHJlYXNvbiBmb3IgdGhlIGNyYWNrcyBmb3JtaW5nLiBXZSBpbnNwZWN0IGVh Y2ggYW5udWFsIGFuZCBoYXZlIGZvdW5kIG5vIGNyYWNrcyBvciBldmVuIHdyaW5rbGVzLiANCgkJ CQ0KCQkJV2UgYWxzbyBmb3VuZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBhaXJjcmFmdCBiZWNvbWVzIHNsaWdodGx5IHVu c3RhYmxlIG5lYXIgdGhlIHN0YWxsIHByaW9yIHRvIHRoZSBidWZmZXQgYW5kIGEgc2xpZ2h0IHNp bmsgcmF0ZSBkZXZlbG9wZXMsIHRoZXJlZm9yZSB3ZSBwbGFuIHRvIHVzZSB0aGlzIHRvIGF2b2lk IHRoZSBwcmUgc3RhbGwgYnVmZmV0IGFuZCBzdWJzZXF1ZW50IHNoYWtpbmcgb2YgdGhlIHRhaWwu IA0KCQkJDQoJCQlTdGFsbCBvY2N1cnJlZCBhdCA1MyBLSUFTIHdpdGggaGFsZiBmbGFwcyBhbmQg MjQwMCMgDQoJCQkNCg0KDQoJCQ0KCQkNCgkJIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UlYxMC1MaXN0Ij5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9y P1JWMTAtTGlzdA0KCQlocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9m b3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KCQlocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29u dHJpYnV0aW9uIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQoJCQ0KCQkN Cg0KCQ0KCQ0KCSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1JWMTAt TGlzdCI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9SVjEwLUxpc3QNCglocmVm PSJodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bQ0KCWhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24iPmh0dHA6Ly93 d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCgkNCgkNCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Chelton website
Date: May 23, 2010
Both McAfee and Avast are reporting the website as unsafe. Perhaps they have been hacked. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2010
Subject: Re: TT Hours?
Three of us have put 592 on 921AC since October 2007. No cracks in the bulkhead, just checked a few hours ago. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? Randy? > We're at around 850 on N256H. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: > > There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that > went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one else found any. John > #40600 > > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > ------------------------------ > On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: > > While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were > stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall > buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could > see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ > hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the > cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even > wrinkles. > > We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall > prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to > use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. > > Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: TT Hours?
Date: May 23, 2010
235 hours in a year and a half. First condition inspection completed back in Nov. with no significant issues. Love this airplane! David Maib 40559 New Smyrna Beach, FL KEVB On May 23, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? Randy? We're at around 850 on N256H. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: > >> There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one else found any. John #40600 >> >> >> >> -- Sent from my Palm Pre >> >> On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: >> >> While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. >> >> We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. >> >> Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2010
Subject: Cowl/engine interference?
From: Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com>
Just did the cowl fitting this weekend, and it looks like I have an interference issue with the mixture arm (Silver Hawk FI system) and cowl. Anyone else have this problem? I have only about 1/4" clearance, which doesn't seem like enough. I've heard of interference issues with the FAB, but not cowl. I also have a problem with the fuel line for the #2 cylinder being only 1/8-1/4" from the top cowl--will be calling Aero Sport about that tomorrow. -Rob -- Rob Kochman RV-10 "Finishing" Kit Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Mag Gasket tear
Date: May 24, 2010
Over the years I have seen in several different airplanes that when you try to retime the mags, rotating the mag tears the gasket, it leaks and you have to replace it. Has anyone found a great solution to that problem? What about coating the gasket during install with fuel lube or antisieze? Any thoughts? Gary Specketer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Mag Gasket tear
Date: May 24, 2010
Yes. Put a thin coat of Tite Seal on both sides of the gasket. Tite Seal is available at Aircraft Spruce. It also works great for any threaded connection. Tite Seal does not harden. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/titesealit.php Carl Froehlich RV-8A (540 hrs) RV-10 (systems install) From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:35 AM Subject: RV10-List: Mag Gasket tear Over the years I have seen in several different airplanes that when you try to retime the mags, rotating the mag tears the gasket, it leaks and you have to replace it. Has anyone found a great solution to that problem? What about coating the gasket during install with fuel lube or antisieze? Any thoughts? Gary Specketer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Mag Gasket tear
Date: May 24, 2010
Hey Gary, If the other guys have experience with the lube on the mag gasket, you probably want to go with that. Just another idea, on car engines (old Jaguar's are notorious for gasket failures because over time they move, not break) I've learned to use the 3M emblem glue (gorilla snot) on the engine side of the gasket, and RTV (gold, black, red - depending on heat) on the removable side of the gasket. A tap with a chisel breaks the RTV seal, and the timing cover, mag, whatever should pop right off leaving the gasket intact. If replacing the gasket after gluing it on, I use a gasket scraper, then polish it with the "brillo" pad in the die grinder. Later, - Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: gary To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:34 AM Subject: RV10-List: Mag Gasket tear Over the years I have seen in several different airplanes that when you try to retime the mags, rotating the mag tears the gasket, it leaks and you have to replace it. Has anyone found a great solution to that problem? What about coating the gasket during install with fuel lube or antisieze? Any thoughts? Gary Specketer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Mag Gasket tear
Date: May 24, 2010
I use fuel lube on both sides of the mag gasket and it allows me to move it with tearing. Kevin Belue Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2010, at 7:34 AM, "gary" wrote: > Over the years I have seen in several different airplanes that when > you try to retime the mags, rotating the mag tears the gasket, it > leaks and you have to replace it. Has anyone found a great solution > to that problem? What about coating the gasket during install with > fuel lube or antisieze? Any thoughts? > > > Gary Specketer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Mag Gasket tear
Date: May 24, 2010
I use fuel lube on both sides of the mag gasket and it allows me to move it with tearing. Kevin Belue Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2010, at 7:34 AM, "gary" wrote: > Over the years I have seen in several different airplanes that when > you try to retime the mags, rotating the mag tears the gasket, it > leaks and you have to replace it. Has anyone found a great solution > to that problem? What about coating the gasket during install with > fuel lube or antisieze? Any thoughts? > > > Gary Specketer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
Subject: Re: Mag Gasket tear
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
I would avoid this recommendation. Stick with Titeseal or fuel lube. You do NOT want to glue the gasket to the accessory case. Good way to get the aluminum parting surface damaged when you need the gasket removed. I would not use any RTV where it is exposed to oil like at this surface. RTV+oil equals a gooey mess that will leak. Totally different from an auto engine made of cast iron and steel where you can scrape gaskets off to your hearts content. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:44 AM, Lew Gallagher wrote: > Hey Gary, > > If the other guys have experience with the lube on the mag gasket, you > probably want to go with that. > > Just another idea, on car engines (old Jaguar's are notorious for gasket > failures because over time they move, not break) I've learned to use the 3M > emblem glue (gorilla snot)on the engine side of the gasket, and RTV (gold, > black, red - depending on heat) on the removable side of the gasket. A tap > with a chisel breaks the RTV seal, and the timing cover, mag, whatever > should pop right off leaving the gasket intact. If replacing the gasket > after gluing it on, I use a gasket scraper, then polish it with the "brillo" > pad in the die grinder. > > Later, - Lew > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: gary > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:34 AM > Subject: RV10-List: Mag Gasket tear > > Over the years I have seen in several different airplanes that when you try > to retime the mags, rotating the mag tears the gasket, it leaks and you have > to replace it. Has anyone found a great solution to that problem? What > about coating the gasket during install with fuel lube or antisieze? Any > thoughts? > > > Gary Specketer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Mag Gasket tear
Date: May 24, 2010
Sorry- I meant without tearing. Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2010, at 10:14 AM, Kevin Belue wrote: > I use fuel lube on both sides of the mag gasket and it allows me to > move it with tearing. > > Kevin Belue > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 24, 2010, at 7:34 AM, "gary" wrote: > >> Over the years I have seen in several different airplanes that when >> you try to retime the mags, rotating the mag tears the gasket, it >> leaks and you have to replace it. Has anyone found a great >> solution to that problem? What about coating the gasket during >> install with fuel lube or antisieze? Any thoughts? >> >> >> >> Gary Specketer >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
Subject: Re: TT Hours?
From: Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com>
N312F -> 170 hours On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? Randy? > We're at around 850 on N256H. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: > > There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that > went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one else found any. John > #40600 > > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > ------------------------------ > On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: > > While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were > stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall > buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could > see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ > hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the > cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even > wrinkles. > > We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall > prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to > use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. > > Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: May 24, 2010
Subject: TT Hours?
N442PM > 140 hours Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 24, 2010
Subject: Re: Cowl/engine interference?
Rob, I remember lowering the spider for the same reason. I think I just turned the bracket over and trimmed as necessary. Lots of room now. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Rob Kochman wrote: > Just did the cowl fitting this weekend, and it looks like I have an > interference issue with the mixture arm (Silver Hawk FI system) and cowl. > Anyone else have this problem? I have only about 1/4" clearance, which > doesn't seem like enough. I've heard of interference issues with the FAB, > but not cowl. > > I also have a problem with the fuel line for the #2 cylinder being only > 1/8-1/4" from the top cowl--will be calling Aero Sport about that tomorrow. > > -Rob > > -- > Rob Kochman > RV-10 "Finishing" Kit > Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) > http://kochman.net/N819K > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net>
Subject: TT hours
Date: May 24, 2010
N475PV-- 161 hours Sheldon Olesen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: TT Hours?
Just over 625 for N104CD. I think Scott's around 650 on N104XP if I remember his last post on it recently. Tim Jesse Saint wrote: > Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? Tim? Scott? > Randy? We're at around 850 on N256H. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: > >> There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history >> that went with the creation of the SB. Just glad no one else found >> any. John #40600 >> >> >> >> -- Sent from my Palm Pre >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM > > wrote: >> >> While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were >> stalling the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall >> buffet. When I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I >> could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) >> had 1000+ hours of landings and stalls in training, this may be a >> reason for the cracks forming. We inspect each annual and have found >> no cracks or even wrinkles. >> >> We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the >> stall prior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore >> we plan to use this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent >> shaking of the tail. >> >> Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: TT Hours?
Robin and group, looks like it's Texas or bust.... start loading the-2nd trailer Wednesday, should be in Texas by Tuesday.- One less California ta xpayer.- The deficit increases to 19,000,003,000... sorry to those remain ing. N414DM - 148 wonderful hours since first flight-June 9th, 2009. Don McDonald --- On Sun, 5/23/10, Robin Marks wrote: From: Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> Subject: RE: RV10-List: TT Hours? Date: Sunday, May 23, 2010, 6:22 PM Robin 150 Terrific hours N110EE Down for Alt upgrade to 70A & fixing small exhaust issue. Been flying my TurboLance II. Good plane but not the same thing as an RV. - Robin - From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: RV10-List: TT Hours? - Speaking of hours, how many hours are people up to? -Tim? -Scott? -Ra ndy? -We're at around 850 on N256H. - Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 - On May 23, 2010, at 6:32 PM, John Cox wrote: There were a lot fewer than 1000 hours on N220RV and a lot of history that went with the creation of the SB. -Just glad no one else found any. -Jo hn #40600 -- Sent from my Palm Pre On May 23, 2010 12:28 PM, DLM wrote: While giving a biannual to a friend in the 10 this morning, we were stallin g the aircraft. At times we got slow enough to get the prestall buffet. Whe n I looked back at the right hoizontal stab and elevator, I could see a lot of movement. Considering that the IO360 RV10 (220RV?) had 1000+ hours of l andings and stalls in training, this may be a reason for the cracks forming . We inspect each annual and have found no cracks or even wrinkles. We also found that the aircraft becomes slightly unstable near the stall pr ior to the buffet and a slight sink rate developes, therefore we plan to us e this to avoid the pre stall buffet and subsequent shaking of the tail. Stall occurred at 53 KIAS with half flaps and 2400# --= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browseDay Browse, Ch at, FAQ,w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?RV1====================== =m">http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution= ======================-=0A=0A =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TT Hours?
Date: May 24, 2010
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Don, your one of the more intelligent ones. Oregon is flooded with Californian's who migrated. My parent's packed us up for the pilgrimage in 1957. In 1973, then Governor McCall coined the phrase "Don't Californicate Oregon". It did not work. Two of my buddies from the Coldwell Banker Commercial office in Seattle posted a Billboard along I-5 near Boeing Field in 1972 that read "Would the last one leaving Seattle, turn out the lights". The former mayor of LA says today that the city will be bankrupt by 2014 and need federal taxpayer assistance to pay the outflows of wages, benefits and giveaways to the needy too stubborn to leave. When you build a mile of road you can drive for just a mile. When you build a mile of runway, you can fly your RV-10 Anywhere. John From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: TT Hours? Robin and group, looks like it's Texas or bust.... start loading the 2nd trailer Wednesday, should be in Texas by Tuesday. One less California taxpayer. The deficit increases to 19,000,003,000... sorry to those remaining. N414DM - 148 wonderful hours since first flight June 9th, 2009. Don McDonald = Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? RV1 ====================== m">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ====================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: TT Hours?
Date: May 24, 2010
John I=92d like to challenge that=85 A =BC to =BD mi ought to be enough :-). -Ben _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:54 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: TT Hours? Don, your one of the more intelligent ones. Oregon is flooded with Californian's who migrated. My parent's packed us up for the pilgrimage in 1957. In 1973, then Governor McCall coined the phrase "Don't Californicate Oregon". It did not work. Two of my buddies from the Coldwell Banker Commercial office in Seattle posted a Billboard along I-5 near Boeing Field in 1972 that read "Would the last one leaving Seattle, turn out the lights". The former mayor of LA says today that the city will be bankrupt by 2014 and need federal taxpayer assistance to pay the outflows of wages, benefits and giveaways to the needy too stubborn to leave. When you build a mile of road you can drive for just a mile. When you build a mile of runway, you can fly your RV-10 Anywhere. John From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: TT Hours? Robin and group, looks like it's Texas or bust.... start loading the 2nd trailer Wednesday, should be in Texas by Tuesday. One less California taxpayer. The deficit increases to 19,000,003,000... sorry to those remaining. N414DM - 148 wonderful hours since first flight June 9th, 2009. Don McDonald = Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R V1 ====================== m">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ====================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
Subject: Re: Cowl/engine interference?
From: Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com>
Thanks, Dave... the spider is fine; it's the "loop up" right before the line goes into the #2 cylinder that's the problem. I figure the line can probably be adjusted/moved, but want to get Aero Sport's take on it, so I don't break anything. Man, your oil door sure is nice :) -Rob On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Dave Saylor < dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote: > Rob, > > I remember lowering the spider for the same reason. I think I just turned > the bracket over and trimmed as necessary. Lots of room now. > > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA 95076 > 831-722-9141 Shop > 831-750-0284 Cell > > > On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Rob Kochman wrote: > >> Just did the cowl fitting this weekend, and it looks like I have an >> interference issue with the mixture arm (Silver Hawk FI system) and cowl. >> Anyone else have this problem? I have only about 1/4" clearance, which >> doesn't seem like enough. I've heard of interference issues with the FAB, >> but not cowl. >> >> I also have a problem with the fuel line for the #2 cylinder being only >> 1/8-1/4" from the top cowl--will be calling Aero Sport about that tomorrow. >> >> -Rob >> >> -- >> Rob Kochman >> RV-10 "Finishing" Kit >> Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) >> http://kochman.net/N819K >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > -- Rob Kochman RV-10 "Finishing" Kit Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick and Sandra Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
Subject: step drills etc
Date: May 24, 2010
Hi all I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates. The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets. I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here. Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's? Question 2: Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill? I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use. I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either. Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole. What am I missing???? Regards, Rick #40956 Southampton, Ont ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
From: <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: step drills etc
Rick, Don't use rivets at all to attach those brackets, use machine screws and stopnuts. You will need to rotate the brackets when rigging the trim, just bolt them up when you have them adjusted. I'm not sure what the problem with the step drill except you ARE drilling an hole first before using the drill right? They don't start holes very well. Rick Sked N246RS Annual time!! ---- Rick and Sandra Lark wrote: > Hi all > > I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates. The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets. I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here. Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's? > > Question 2: Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill? I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use. I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either. Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole. What am I missing???? > > Regards, Rick > > #40956 > Southampton, Ont > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
From: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com>
Subject: Trim Cable Attach Bracket
Anywhere to pick up something similar to the CNC'd Trim Cable Attach Bracket that rivethead used to produce? Thanks, Sean #40303 http://rv10.stephensville.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trim Cable Attach Bracket
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: May 24, 2010
iflyrv10.com David Maib 40559 On May 24, 2010, at 7:54 PM, Sean Stephens wrote: > > Anywhere to pick up something similar to the CNC'd Trim Cable Attach Bracket that rivethead used to produce? > > Thanks, > > Sean #40303 > http://rv10.stephensville.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trim Cable Attach Bracket
Date: May 24, 2010
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
http://www.iflyrv10.com -----Original Message----- From: Sean Stephens [mailto:sean(at)stephensville.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:54 PM Subject: RV10-List: Trim Cable Attach Bracket Anywhere to pick up something similar to the CNC'd Trim Cable Attach Bracket that rivethead used to produce? Thanks, Sean #40303 http://rv10.stephensville.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: step drills etc
Date: May 24, 2010
I would guess you might be using the "Harbor Freight" type step drill. They tend to make rough, less than round holes. I bought a set figuring I could save a few dollars. Big mistake. Try a Unibit brand step drill. Smooth hole every time. If your local Lowes/Home Depot should have them. If not, Cleaveland Tools does: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/products.asp?dept=21 Carl Froehlich RV-8A (540 hrs) RV-10 (systems install) From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick and Sandra Lark Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: step drills etc Hi all I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates. The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets. I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here. Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's? Question 2: Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill? I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use. I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either. Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole. What am I missing???? Regards, Rick #40956 Southampton, Ont ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Front tire make
Date: May 24, 2010
Thanks guys. Tim On May 24, 2010, at 4:27 PM, Rob Kochman wrote: > My kit came with "Aero Classic" tires, both nose and mains. > > -Rob > > On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Does anyone remember what front tire make came with > the kit? I've been happy with the Desser HP retreads > on the mains, and my nose tire is going strong, but I > want to buy a spare. I figure since it's worked good > so far I may just buy the same thing again. > > -- > Tim Olson - RV-10s List Features Navigator to browse > s.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ==== > > > -- > Rob Kochman > RV-10 "Finishing" Kit > Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) > http://kochman.net/N819K > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: step drills etc
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 24, 2010
Drill into a piece of scrap first to make sure sizing is accurate or your snap bushings will be loose. My first one was not. I used LP-4's but will change out to screws/miniature nut plates later on. -------- Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08 Grayson, KY Bldr# 40983 Ord complete kit 8/24/09; DB Sch del 11/20/09 Emp 12/01/09-3/14/10 332 hrs Wings 3/14/10- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298801#298801 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick and Sandra Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
Subject: Re: step drills etc
Date: May 24, 2010
Hmmm....Yes you're right Carl. Both drills were cheap Harbor Freight type drills. I don't usually go the cheap route when it comes to tools. Not sure now why I even tried. I'll look for a "good" drill. Thx Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Froehlich To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: step drills etc I would guess you might be using the "Harbor Freight" type step drill. They tend to make rough, less than round holes. I bought a set figuring I could save a few dollars. Big mistake. Try a Unibit brand step drill. Smooth hole every time. If your local Lowes/Home Depot should have them. If not, Cleaveland Tools does: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/products.asp?dept=21 Carl Froehlich RV-8A (540 hrs) RV-10 (systems install) From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick and Sandra Lark Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:06 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: step drills etc Hi all I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates. The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets. I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here. Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's? Question 2: Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill? I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use. I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either. Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole. What am I missing???? Regards, Rick #40956 Southampton, Ont


May 06, 2010 - May 24, 2010

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-gm