RV10-Archive.digest.vol-gx

August 09, 2010 - August 22, 2010



      5. Get the upgrades on the front axle from the beginning.  I never had 
      any problems with the stock one, but the matco upgrade is worth the 
      upgrade. 
      
      6. simplify the audio panel.  All the rear jacks/entertainment just 
      isn't very useful.  As long as you have XM weather and radio, not much 
      else is needed. 
      
      7. fix the loose steps before I closed the lower pan.  Still gotta go 
      back and cut holes in the floor to stop the wiggle. 
      
      8. Read and follow the recent updates on the door construction and 
      installation.  It will save you time and money and frustration.  The 
      doors are doable, and you can get great results, if you go about it 
      correctly. 
      
      Dr Fred
      
      7 takeoffs and landings this last Saturday.  What a great machine. 
      
      
      Dave Fritzsche (Building) wrote:
      > 
      >
      > This question is primarily for those who have been flying for a while 
      > and have gained significant use experience.  I believe the response 
      > will be very helpful to those of us who are in the building process 
      > and wrestling with decisions of what to put into our aircraft in terms 
      > of electronics, engines, modifications and also useful techniques used 
      > to complete the building process.  I am not asking for what is best 
      > (no primer wars here) but for what you believe you learned from your 
      > experience.
      >
      > If you were starting to build an RV-10 given you current knowledge 
      > gained from building and flying you RV-10, what would you do 
      > differently in completing the project?
      >
      > Dave
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2010
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Agreed. Certainly differences of opinion on certain items, but great for stimulating thought and either deleting/upgrading/justifying items and where/how they are installed. Working on deletion/addition list for ordering finish/FWF kits. Kelly On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > > > I'm still building so.... but great question and answers! > > Dave Fritzsche (Building) wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 09, 2010
Do different: 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates that I did over the steps. 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. Glad I did: 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 mos) 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. 3. Insulate the firewall 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Side Vents
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 09, 2010
I do not think that there is any mention of installation in the plans. I just put the two vents in with proseal and a dimpled pop rivet. I put the expensive Van's eyeball on and they work fine. The proseal holds them in place tenaciously and it is easy to align. Sand them lightly inside before you install so that they take the finish paint. Remove the eyeball vents and cover the inside with masking tape for the finish coat. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308162#308162 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trutrak DigiFlite II VSGV
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 09, 2010
Those failing LCD displays must be a real pain for the TT folks. Mine went before OSH, but the nice folks at TT fixed it and returned the unit to me before OSH and it performed flawlessly for the whole trip. Good people. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308163#308163 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McGann, Ron" <Ron.McGann(at)ausawd.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Re: Trutrak DigiFlite II VSGV
Hey Mike, Can you describe the symptoms for me? I'm wondering whether mine is on the way out. Cheers Ron VH-XRM Flying in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 4:23 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trutrak DigiFlite II VSGV Those failing LCD displays must be a real pain for the TT folks. Mine went before OSH, but the nice folks at TT fixed it and returned the unit to me before OSH and it performed flawlessly for the whole trip. Good people. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308163#308163 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Masys, Daniel R" <dan.masys(at)vanderbilt.edu>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Now coming up on 400 hour TT, and loving this bird a little more each time I learn something new about it: Do differently: 1. Install the Safe-Air1 auxiliary tanks during the initial build. A pain after the wing is painted, and they are the single most dramatic thing for expanding cross country options. Do the same: 1. Keep it light. Mine came in at 1525 and is no showplane but a great performer. -Dan Masys RV-10 N104LD flying RV-12 N122LD engine installation ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
I knew I would think of some other things! I agree with Dr. Fred about the Matco front axle. Do it during the build. I agree with Mike about: Stainless steel heated air box Insulated firewall I used the iflyrv10 billet door pin blocks and they are very nice. Alex D.'s high capacity oil cooler. I highly recommend rudder pedal extensions sold by mlskunkworks, Blue Sky Aviation, and others. Alex D's Blue Sky sun visors. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308180#308180 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Kit Decisions
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: "Brent P. Humphreys" <bhumphreys(at)stonetek.com>
I am about to purchase a wing kit from another builder. I am getting my workspace ready, and also looking into the build process, and any decisions I need to make before closing up the wings. So, I have a few questions for those that have gone before. 1. What size table/jig did you use for building the wings? I am a little space constrained, so I am wondering what size table I need, or if I would be better off doing a fixed stand like the jigs some of the other RV types use for construction. 2. What decisions do I need to make for the wing build? a. Aileron Trim b. Extended range tanks (SafeAir1) c. Select Autopilot and Servos d. Lighting type Any other advice on options I should be considering at this point in the build would be appreciated. Thanks -- Brent Humphreys ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
I'm close to flying but not there yet, so I can only comment on building issues. I would put more conduit in for wiring, and try to find a smooth inner wall - Van's conduit is ribbed and is difficult to run additional wires through. My two cents, John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308188#308188 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Wing Kit Decisions
Date: Aug 10, 2010
I guilt mine on two fold up lawn tables (8') from Costco, then in the wing stand. The spar is over 12 feet, but you could do it on only one table of that size. 2.a..did mine after the wing was on the airplane, not too hard, but wish I would have done it right after I put the bottom skin on. 2.b...did not do that, no opinion 2.c..put mine in after the wing was on the plane...no problems...would be easier off the plane. 2.d...used the standard kit form Vans, and thus no problem doing it anytime before paint. Rene' Felker N423CF 801-721-6080 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brent P. Humphreys Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:12 AM Subject: RV10-List: Wing Kit Decisions I am about to purchase a wing kit from another builder. I am getting my workspace ready, and also looking into the build process, and any decisions I need to make before closing up the wings. So, I have a few questions for those that have gone before. 1. What size table/jig did you use for building the wings? I am a little space constrained, so I am wondering what size table I need, or if I would be better off doing a fixed stand like the jigs some of the other RV types use for construction. 2. What decisions do I need to make for the wing build? a. Aileron Trim b. Extended range tanks (SafeAir1) c. Select Autopilot and Servos d. Lighting type Any other advice on options I should be considering at this point in the build would be appreciated. Thanks -- Brent Humphreys ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Tie a piece of paper towel on the end of your pull string and tape the other end next to the conduit. Stick it in one end of the conduit and your shop vac in the other. If you didn't tape the free end of the pull string down you might find all of it in the shop vac. ;-) Linn johngoodman wrote: > > I'm close to flying but not there yet, so I can only comment on building issues. > > I would put more conduit in for wiring, and try to find a smooth inner wall - Van's conduit is ribbed and is difficult to run additional wires through. > > My two cents, > John > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308188#308188 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Decisions
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
While working on my QB wings I found 1 standard EAA workbench adequate, 2 of them better, just for more support. 2. Aileron trim can be deferred for a long time, because it attaches to the first inspection plate and while probably easier while the control tube can be removed, I'm not sure it is needed vs letting autopilot handle it. So I will probably defer until after flying. Extended range tanks may affect that decision, with the weight out at wing tips. Autopilot servo, (only one goes in one wing) again will be at access panel where the aileron rocker is installed to transfer motion direction. You will want to consider conduit for the wing that will get that servo to ease pulling the wires. You don't have to make any lighting decisions until ready to put the wing tips on, as long as you pulled wires for them before closing bottom of the wings. For storage and some work tasks, the vertical stands are a real help. Especially with wheels. You really want a helper to transfer wings from work bench to stand. Keep in mind that the wings are built long before they get installed on the fuselage, and you need a safe place to store them. If you do the stall warning vane, it is at risk unless the wings are in a stand. You really don't want the leading edges supporting the whole wing leaning against a wall, so that they can be bumped and knocked over. On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Brent P. Humphreys wrote: > 1. What size table/jig did you use for building the wings? I am a > little space constrained, so I am wondering what size table I need, or if I > would be better off doing a fixed stand like the jigs some of the other RV > types use for construction. > > 2. What decisions do I need to make for the wing build? > > a. Aileron Trim > > b. Extended range tanks (SafeAir1) > > c. Select Autopilot and Servos > > d. Lighting type > > > Any other advice on options I should be considering at this point in the > build would be appreciated. Thanks > > -- > > Brent Humphreys > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
See below --- On Tue, 8/10/10, johngoodman wrote: From: johngoodman <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 6:23 AM I'm close to flying but not there yet, so I can only comment on building is sues. I would put more conduit in for wiring, and try to find a smooth inner wall - Van's conduit is ribbed and is difficult to run additional wires through . I used sprinkler drip system pipe... comes in several diameters, smooth on outside and inside, cheap, and light.... can be locked into place by using 1/2 of a union. Don My two cents, John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308188#308188 le, List Admin. =0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience with an un-insulated firewall? I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there anything else? Bill "superfil is good" Watson. AirMike wrote: > > Do different: > 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates that I did over the steps. > 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. > 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. > > Glad I did: > 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 mos) > 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. > 3. Insulate the firewall > 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit > 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... > > -------- > OSH '10 or Bust > Q/B - finally done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Wing Kit Decisions
You can use an 8' table easily because the spar is a lot heavier on the inb oard end. Storage is best done using a stand to hold them vertical. You c an also keep them in that stand when installing the bottom skin. No real decisions during the build. It want to defer wiring it will be eas ier to install conduit running the length of the wings with breaks at the a ccess panels. - Aileron trim: easily installed when complete. Servo mounts to i nboard inspection panel and attaches to control tube with 2 springs (clips get attached to tube with pulled rivets). - Extended range tanks: can't comment on install but consider your mission. An RV-10 has tremendous range/duration especially running LOP. There are certainly a few that NEED extended range tanks but most of us app reciate a break after flying 3-4 hours (running 50 LOP you'll have 5+ hours endurance). - Autopilot servo: servo will be specific to the AP you select so wait until you've settled on the AP decision. Roll servo will mount in the bay with the outboard inspection panel and attach to the aileron bellcrank . Probably a little easier to install before closing up the wing but not a big deal to do afterward. - Lighting type: decision can be deferred. Wiring will go to the wingtips so conduit will make it easy to install later. If you're going to do leading edge (vs. wingtip) landing lights you might consider doing the mechanical install before closing everything up. Plenty of people have don e it after though without issue. One thing not mentioned yet is heated pitot. If you're going to use a heat ed pitot tube you'll need a mount for it. Most people use the Gretz type m ount which will need to be installed before attaching the bottom skin. The re's a doubler, attachment to a rib, and hole to be cut in the bottom skin that would be difficult to do after closing up. Bob RV-10 N442PM From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Brent P. Humphreys Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:12 AM Subject: RV10-List: Wing Kit Decisions I am about to purchase a wing kit from another builder. I am getting my wo rkspace ready, and also looking into the build process, and any decisions I need to make before closing up the wings. So, I have a few questions for those that have gone before. 1. What size table/jig did you use for building the wings? I am a li ttle space constrained, so I am wondering what size table I need, or if I w ould be better off doing a fixed stand like the jigs some of the other RV t ypes use for construction. 2. What decisions do I need to make for the wing build? a. Aileron Trim b. Extended range tanks (SafeAir1) c. Select Autopilot and Servos d. Lighting type Any other advice on options I should be considering at this point in the bu ild would be appreciated. Thanks -- Brent Humphreys ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Bill "superfil is good" Watson, Besides fire, the ss boxes have baffles to prevent any hot air from leaking by the doors and into the scat tubing... Phil On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson < MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote: > MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> > > I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't > insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience > with an un-insulated firewall? > > I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think > the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there > anything else? > > Bill "superfil is good" Watson. > > AirMike wrote: > >> >> Do different: >> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >> that I did over the steps. >> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >> >> Glad I did: >> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 mos) >> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high >> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >> 3. Insulate the firewall >> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. >> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Bill - a couple of issues with the stock heat boxes: - they're aluminum which partially defeats the purpose of having a stainless steel firewall since they're the only thing between the cabin and a pair of 2" holes. - the hinges on the stock aluminum boxes are sloppy and are at least part of the legendary "hot tunnel" issue. Air from the opposite side SCAT causes the flapper to lift on the hinge side and allow hot air in even if the flapper is closed. You won't feel flow but will get hot air in there. Bob RV-10 N442PM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver Watson Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:49 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience with an un-insulated firewall? I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there anything else? Bill "superfil is good" Watson. AirMike wrote: > > Do different: > 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates that I did over the steps. > 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. > 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. > > Glad I did: > 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 mos) > 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. > 3. Insulate the firewall > 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit > 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... > > -------- > OSH '10 or Bust > Q/B - finally done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Although the SS airbox will buy some additional time (probably not enough to land and exit), a better solution to the fire problem might be fire bottle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? > > > I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't > insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience > with an un-insulated firewall? > > I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think > the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there > anything else? > > Bill "superfil is good" Watson. > > AirMike wrote: >> >> Do different: >> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >> that I did over the steps. >> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >> >> Glad I did: >> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 >> mos) >> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high >> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >> 3. Insulate the firewall >> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. >> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Date: Aug 10, 2010
In any case check the chemical composition of the material and any gas given off while hot or burning ----- Original Message ----- From: Don McDonald To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? See below --- On Tue, 8/10/10, johngoodman wrote: From: johngoodman <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 6:23 AM I'm close to flying but not there yet, so I can only comment on building issues. I would put more conduit in for wiring, and try to find a smooth inner wall - Van's conduit is ribbed and is difficult to run additional wires through. I used sprinkler drip system pipe... comes in several diameters, smooth on outside and inside, cheap, and light.... can be locked into place by using 1/2 of a union. Don My two cents, John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=atronics.com/Navigator?RV10 -List" sp;--> http://f= - List Contributionsp; &bsp;--> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
My good buddy and RV-10 builder optede for the SS heat boxes. I didn't ..... yet. He had some thin red silicone sheet that he bonded to the flapper to seal the hole when closed. I did the same (he gave me enough to do mine) bonding the sheet to the flapper with red silicone from the tube and closing the flapper while the silicone cured. I'm into fire prevention (I know it's impossible to get it 100%) rather than fire mitigation. Linn Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > > Bill - a couple of issues with the stock heat boxes: > - they're aluminum which partially defeats the purpose of having a stainless steel firewall since they're the only thing between the cabin and a pair of 2" holes. > - the hinges on the stock aluminum boxes are sloppy and are at least part of the legendary "hot tunnel" issue. Air from the opposite side SCAT causes the flapper to lift on the hinge side and allow hot air in even if the flapper is closed. You won't feel flow but will get hot air in there. > > Bob > RV-10 N442PM > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm34077(at)cox.net>
Subject: fire
Date: Aug 10, 2010
http://www.stroudsafety.com/HalonSystems.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Date: Aug 10, 2010
The insulation, I believe is for heat dissipation, as well as maybe noise? I went with a spray on noise than ceramic insulation, I can tell you that the "bang test" where I hit the firewall with a wood block before and after the spray on was rather significant, I also grabbed a heat lamp and let it sit for 5 minutes pretty close to the firewall, the heat was hard to touch for a few seconds on the fore side and bearable on the aft side with the insulation, so it must do something. I have the plane innovation heat vents, I don't know if Paul stuck with the same design as mine has, as I know he is always doing more fire tests that result in his needing the fire crew to come out when the neighbors see smoke (he takes the smoke and fire testing very seriously) but mine literally blocks any forced air to come into the vents unless the doors are opened a little bit. I grabbed a heat gun and shot it through the SCAT tube and had someone tell me when they felt any heat at the cabin side vent (without a SCAT tube installed) no heat at all until the vent was pulled, there is no doubt they are worth the money. I don't know what they will do for smoke blockage, but whatever it is, it is far better than the aluminum vents that are part of the kit. Skip the Vans vents and get the Plane innovations one, they may save you extra work with the tunnel heat issue, I can confirm that when I actually fly but based on my limited heat gun testing I can't see how there would be a tunnel issue with the vents closed. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? > > > I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't > insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience > with an un-insulated firewall? > > I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think > the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there > anything else? > > Bill "superfil is good" Watson. > > AirMike wrote: >> >> Do different: >> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >> that I did over the steps. >> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >> >> Glad I did: >> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 >> mos) >> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high >> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >> 3. Insulate the firewall >> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. >> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
A good way to test the sealing of the vents when building is to connect the blower side of a shop-vac to the SCAT connection. Turn on the shop-vac and observe both flappers. Silicone sealing helps the flap side and a buildup along the inboard side of the hinges helps also. The high velocity air causes the opposite side flapper to lift at the hinge. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? The insulation, I believe is for heat dissipation, as well as maybe noise? I went with a spray on noise than ceramic insulation, I can tell you that the "bang test" where I hit the firewall with a wood block before and after the spray on was rather significant, I also grabbed a heat lamp and let it sit for 5 minutes pretty close to the firewall, the heat was hard to touch for a few seconds on the fore side and bearable on the aft side with the insulation, so it must do something. I have the plane innovation heat vents, I don't know if Paul stuck with the same design as mine has, as I know he is always doing more fire tests that result in his needing the fire crew to come out when the neighbors see smoke (he takes the smoke and fire testing very seriously) but mine literally blocks any forced air to come into the vents unless the doors are opened a little bit. I grabbed a heat gun and shot it through the SCAT tube and had someone tell me when they felt any heat at the cabin side vent (without a SCAT tube installed) no heat at all until the vent was pulled, there is no doubt they are worth the money. I don't know what they will do for smoke blockage, but whatever it is, it is far better than the aluminum vents that are part of the kit. Skip the Vans vents and get the Plane innovations one, they may save you extra work with the tunnel heat issue, I can confirm that when I actually fly but based on my limited heat gun testing I can't see how there would be a tunnel issue with the vents closed. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? > > > I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't > insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience > with an un-insulated firewall? > > I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think > the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there > anything else? > > Bill "superfil is good" Watson. > > AirMike wrote: >> >> Do different: >> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >> that I did over the steps. >> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >> >> Glad I did: >> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 >> mos) >> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high >> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >> 3. Insulate the firewall >> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. >> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Does that happen if you blow air into BOTH sides simultaneously? I can easily see it if it blows one side...both sides at the same time is harder to understand. Tim On Aug 10, 2010, at 11:43 AM, "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" wrote: > > A good way to test the sealing of the vents when building is to connect the blower side of a shop-vac to the SCAT connection. Turn on the shop-vac and observe both flappers. Silicone sealing helps the flap side and a buildup along the inboard side of the hinges helps also. The high velocity air causes the opposite side flapper to lift at the hinge. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:18 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? > > > The insulation, I believe is for heat dissipation, as well as maybe noise? I > went with a spray on noise than ceramic insulation, I can tell you that the > "bang test" where I hit the firewall with a wood block before and after the > spray on was rather significant, I also grabbed a heat lamp and let it sit > for 5 minutes pretty close to the firewall, the heat was hard to touch for a > few seconds on the fore side and bearable on the aft side with the > insulation, so it must do something. > I have the plane innovation heat vents, I don't know if Paul stuck with the > same design as mine has, as I know he is always doing more fire tests that > result in his needing the fire crew to come out when the neighbors see > smoke (he takes the smoke and fire testing very seriously) but mine > literally blocks any forced air to come into the vents unless the doors are > opened a little bit. I grabbed a heat gun and shot it through the SCAT tube > and had someone tell me when they felt any heat at the cabin side vent > (without a SCAT tube installed) no heat at all until the vent was pulled, > there is no doubt they are worth the money. I don't know what they will do > for smoke blockage, but whatever it is, it is far better than the aluminum > vents that are part of the kit. > Skip the Vans vents and get the Plane innovations one, they may save you > extra work with the tunnel heat issue, I can confirm that when I actually > fly but based on my limited heat gun testing I can't see how there would be > a tunnel issue with the vents closed. > Pascal > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:48 AM > To: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do > Differently? > >> >> >> I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't >> insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience >> with an un-insulated firewall? >> >> I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think >> the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there >> anything else? >> >> Bill "superfil is good" Watson. >> >> AirMike wrote: >>> >>> Do different: >>> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >>> that I did over the steps. >>> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >>> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >>> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >>> >>> Glad I did: >>> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 >>> mos) >>> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high >>> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >>> 3. Insulate the firewall >>> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >>> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >>> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. >>> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >>> >>> -------- >>> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Don't know - maybe somebody without their engine on the mount can check it out! Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? Does that happen if you blow air into BOTH sides simultaneously? I can easily see it if it blows one side...both sides at the same time is harder to understand. Tim On Aug 10, 2010, at 11:43 AM, "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" wrote: > > A good way to test the sealing of the vents when building is to connect the blower side of a shop-vac to the SCAT connection. Turn on the shop-vac and observe both flappers. Silicone sealing helps the flap side and a buildup along the inboard side of the hinges helps also. The high velocity air causes the opposite side flapper to lift at the hinge. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:18 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? > > > The insulation, I believe is for heat dissipation, as well as maybe noise? I > went with a spray on noise than ceramic insulation, I can tell you that the > "bang test" where I hit the firewall with a wood block before and after the > spray on was rather significant, I also grabbed a heat lamp and let it sit > for 5 minutes pretty close to the firewall, the heat was hard to touch for a > few seconds on the fore side and bearable on the aft side with the > insulation, so it must do something. > I have the plane innovation heat vents, I don't know if Paul stuck with the > same design as mine has, as I know he is always doing more fire tests that > result in his needing the fire crew to come out when the neighbors see > smoke (he takes the smoke and fire testing very seriously) but mine > literally blocks any forced air to come into the vents unless the doors are > opened a little bit. I grabbed a heat gun and shot it through the SCAT tube > and had someone tell me when they felt any heat at the cabin side vent > (without a SCAT tube installed) no heat at all until the vent was pulled, > there is no doubt they are worth the money. I don't know what they will do > for smoke blockage, but whatever it is, it is far better than the aluminum > vents that are part of the kit. > Skip the Vans vents and get the Plane innovations one, they may save you > extra work with the tunnel heat issue, I can confirm that when I actually > fly but based on my limited heat gun testing I can't see how there would be > a tunnel issue with the vents closed. > Pascal > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:48 AM > To: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do > Differently? > >> >> >> I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn't >> insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experience >> with an un-insulated firewall? >> >> I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think >> the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is there >> anything else? >> >> Bill "superfil is good" Watson. >> >> AirMike wrote: >>> >>> Do different: >>> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >>> that I did over the steps. >>> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >>> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >>> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >>> >>> Glad I did: >>> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 >>> mos) >>> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's high >>> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >>> 3. Insulate the firewall >>> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >>> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >>> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs. >>> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >>> >>> -------- >>> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Date: Aug 10, 2010
There is too much heat from both exhausts so one covers inlet and outlet of one and uses only one exhaust. From that exhaust you run the one SCAT to a "Y" and in turn 2 SCATS, 1 per vent. When you blow air it hits both flappers at the same time. Hope that makes sense. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)myrv10.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? > > Does that happen if you blow air into BOTH sides simultaneously? I can > easily see it if it blows one side...both sides at the same time is harder > to understand. > Tim > > > On Aug 10, 2010, at 11:43 AM, "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" > wrote: > >> >> >> A good way to test the sealing of the vents when building is to connect >> the blower side of a shop-vac to the SCAT connection. Turn on the >> shop-vac and observe both flappers. Silicone sealing helps the flap side >> and a buildup along the inboard side of the hinges helps also. The high >> velocity air causes the opposite side flapper to lift at the hinge. >> >> Bob >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal >> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:18 AM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do >> Differently? >> >> >> The insulation, I believe is for heat dissipation, as well as maybe >> noise? I >> went with a spray on noise than ceramic insulation, I can tell you that >> the >> "bang test" where I hit the firewall with a wood block before and after >> the >> spray on was rather significant, I also grabbed a heat lamp and let it >> sit >> for 5 minutes pretty close to the firewall, the heat was hard to touch >> for a >> few seconds on the fore side and bearable on the aft side with the >> insulation, so it must do something. >> I have the plane innovation heat vents, I don't know if Paul stuck with >> the >> same design as mine has, as I know he is always doing more fire tests >> that >> result in his needing the fire crew to come out when the neighbors see >> smoke (he takes the smoke and fire testing very seriously) but mine >> literally blocks any forced air to come into the vents unless the doors >> are >> opened a little bit. I grabbed a heat gun and shot it through the SCAT >> tube >> and had someone tell me when they felt any heat at the cabin side vent >> (without a SCAT tube installed) no heat at all until the vent was pulled, >> there is no doubt they are worth the money. I don't know what they will >> do >> for smoke blockage, but whatever it is, it is far better than the >> aluminum >> vents that are part of the kit. >> Skip the Vans vents and get the Plane innovations one, they may save you >> extra work with the tunnel heat issue, I can confirm that when I actually >> fly but based on my limited heat gun testing I can't see how there would >> be >> a tunnel issue with the vents closed. >> Pascal >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:48 AM >> To: >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do >> Differently? >> >>> >>> >>> I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who >>> hasn't >>> insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your >>> experience >>> with an un-insulated firewall? >>> >>> I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think >>> the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is >>> there >>> anything else? >>> >>> Bill "superfil is good" Watson. >>> >>> AirMike wrote: >>>> >>>> Do different: >>>> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >>>> that I did over the steps. >>>> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >>>> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >>>> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >>>> >>>> Glad I did: >>>> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 >>>> mos) >>>> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's >>>> high >>>> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >>>> 3. Insulate the firewall >>>> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >>>> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >>>> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 >>>> lbs. >>>> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com
I would put aileron trim in,place two fuel filters under seat,place flowsc an firewall forward,use ss heat boxes,use duckworth lights-vans landing li ghts painfully inadequate in my application,use a thin layer of composite and weave around plexi to prevent cracking and use matco nosewheel-great airplane-as an alternative to two fuel filters would be an access door on tunnel this would allow fuel shutoff to be used and prevent having to dra in tanks to check and clean filter.-good luck Jim -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 10, 2010 10:14 am Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Different ly? Does that happen if you blow air into BOTH sides simultaneously? I can ea sily ee it if it blows one side...both sides at the same time is harder to nderstand. im On Aug 10, 2010, at 11:43 AM, "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesyst ems.com> rote: esystems.com> A good way to test the sealing of the vents when building is to connect the lower side of a shop-vac to the SCAT connection. Turn on the shop-vac and bserve both flappers. Silicone sealing helps the flap side and a buildup along he inboard side of the hinges helps also. The high velocity air causes th e pposite side flapper to lift at the hinge. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server @matronics.com] n Behalf Of Pascal Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:18 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differen tly? The insulation, I believe is for heat dissipation, as well as maybe noise ? I went with a spray on noise than ceramic insulation, I can tell you that the "bang test" where I hit the firewall with a wood block before and after the spray on was rather significant, I also grabbed a heat lamp and let it si t for 5 minutes pretty close to the firewall, the heat was hard to touch fo r a few seconds on the fore side and bearable on the aft side with the insulation, so it must do something. I have the plane innovation heat vents, I don't know if Paul stuck with the same design as mine has, as I know he is always doing more fire tests tha t result in his needing the fire crew to come out when the neighbors see smoke (he takes the smoke and fire testing very seriously) but mine literally blocks any forced air to come into the vents unless the doors are opened a little bit. I grabbed a heat gun and shot it through the SCAT tu be and had someone tell me when they felt any heat at the cabin side vent (without a SCAT tube installed) no heat at all until the vent was pulled, there is no doubt they are worth the money. I don't know what they will do for smoke blockage, but whatever it is, it is far better than the aluminu m vents that are part of the kit. Skip the Vans vents and get the Plane innovations one, they may save you extra work with the tunnel heat issue, I can confirm that when I actually fly but based on my limited heat gun testing I can't see how there would be a tunnel issue with the vents closed. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:48 AM To: Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? > > > I haven't put any insulation on my firewall. Can anyone flying who hasn 't > insulated the firewall comment on the situation? What is your experienc e > with an un-insulated firewall? > > I kind of want to ask the same question about the SS air box but I think > the only issue there is safety in case of firewall forward fire. Is the re > anything else? > > Bill "superfil is good" Watson. > > AirMike wrote: >> >> Do different: >> 1. Nut plate the rear floor or at least put in the 2 inspection plates >> that I did over the steps. >> 2. Provision for an easily removable portable Oxygen bottle. This plane >> likes to fly high. Not a big deal and can be done after certification. >> 3. Put in a regular VOR antenna for IFR navigation. >> >> Glad I did: >> 1. Kept the mods to a minimum for a quick build cycle (I did it in 32 >> mos) >> 2. Must do mods - SS heated air box - rivethead door pins - Alex D's hi gh >> capacity oil cooler - at least for flying out west. >> 3. Insulate the firewall >> 4. Simple panel - LED lighting kit >> 5. Keep the weight light (See Tim Olson post). This is a biggggg deal >> after you are flying. I have almost no interior. I am at about 1630 lbs . >> Most seem to run about 1700 lbs. Comfort or capacity - your choice.... >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308161#308161 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The RV10-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Overhead Console Vents
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
What is everyone using for overhead console vents, and are you happy with the vent quality? I see vents range from $59 to almost $200. I don't want to overpay, but I want a quality vent.... Thanks -Mike Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Subject: Overhead Console Vents
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Use the vents Stein air sells. They are worth the money and shut off tight. Not the cheapest but are the best. Geoff Geoff Combs President Aerosport Modeling & Design 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110 614-834-5227p 614-834-5230f www.aerosportmodeling.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Overhead Console Vents --> What is everyone using for overhead console vents, and are you happy with the vent quality? I see vents range from $59 to almost $200. I don't want to overpay, but I want a quality vent.... Thanks -Mike Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Kit Decisions
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: "Brent P. Humphreys" <bhumphreys(at)stonetek.com>
Thanks for all of the feedback. I had hoped that there would be access for most of this once I have completed the fuse kit. Avionics are changing so fast, I wouldn't want to choose a particular company/technology during this part of the build, and limit my options later. I am going to pick up the wing kit in 10 days, so I wanted to get a good idea what I need to be planning for, and what decisions I might have been locked into by the previous builder. So, right now looks like I will do the pitot mount, conduit runs, and possibly the aileron trim if it is included in the kit I bought. Thanks again. -- Brent Humphreys From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:58 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wing Kit Decisions You can use an 8' table easily because the spar is a lot heavier on the inboard end. Storage is best done using a stand to hold them vertical. You can also keep them in that stand when installing the bottom skin. No real decisions during the build. It want to defer wiring it will be easier to install conduit running the length of the wings with breaks at the access panels. - Aileron trim: easily installed when complete. Servo mounts to inboard inspection panel and attaches to control tube with 2 springs (clips get attached to tube with pulled rivets). - Extended range tanks: can't comment on install but consider your mission. An RV-10 has tremendous range/duration especially running LOP. There are certainly a few that NEED extended range tanks but most of us appreciate a break after flying 3-4 hours (running 50 LOP you'll have 5+ hours endurance). - Autopilot servo: servo will be specific to the AP you select so wait until you've settled on the AP decision. Roll servo will mount in the bay with the outboard inspection panel and attach to the aileron bellcrank. Probably a little easier to install before closing up the wing but not a big deal to do afterward. - Lighting type: decision can be deferred. Wiring will go to the wingtips so conduit will make it easy to install later. If you're going to do leading edge (vs. wingtip) landing lights you might consider doing the mechanical install before closing everything up. Plenty of people have done it after though without issue. One thing not mentioned yet is heated pitot. If you're going to use a heated pitot tube you'll need a mount for it. Most people use the Gretz type mount which will need to be installed before attaching the bottom skin. There's a doubler, attachment to a rib, and hole to be cut in the bottom skin that would be difficult to do after closing up. Bob RV-10 N442PM From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brent P. Humphreys Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:12 AM Subject: RV10-List: Wing Kit Decisions I am about to purchase a wing kit from another builder. I am getting my workspace ready, and also looking into the build process, and any decisions I need to make before closing up the wings. So, I have a few questions for those that have gone before. 1. What size table/jig did you use for building the wings? I am a little space constrained, so I am wondering what size table I need, or if I would be better off doing a fixed stand like the jigs some of the other RV types use for construction. 2. What decisions do I need to make for the wing build? a. Aileron Trim b. Extended range tanks (SafeAir1) c. Select Autopilot and Servos d. Lighting type Any other advice on options I should be considering at this point in the build would be appreciated. Thanks -- Brent Humphreys http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Decisions
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
All of the above posts have excellent information. I am presently installing last outboard wing skin/pitot mount. I have used 2 ea 30" x 84" tables for tail/wing kit. Doing bottom skins while wings lying on top with padding. Definitely much easier for me or my wife to hold rivet gun vertical and not as far to drop tungsten bucking bar(so far so good haven't dropped it). I decided against the plastic pitot due to several melt downs recently. Went with Falcon from Spruce. You will need a small 4" x 5" piece of .064" 2024-T3 for pitot reinforcement to tie into spar and rib. I installed pitot inside of 2nd rib inboard from tip. Installed HID lights before installing outboard leading edge to spars...much easier this way. Inst ap servo and harness from Stein. All wiring pre ran through snap bushings with one spare 18ga. System 6 strobe/pos lights ready to install in tips in a few weeks. Aileron trim kit ready to install after control tubes are installed. Next comes ailerons. Have fun. -------- Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08 Grayson, KY Bldr# 40983 Ord complete kit 8/24/09; DB Sch del 11/20/09 Emp 12/01/09-3/14/10 332 hrs Wings 3/14/10- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308259#308259 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Thanks for that detail. I in fact tried to seal it up with some red silicone in the tube - didn't work very well. But bonding some thin sheet to the flap I can see could do the trick I used some (thick) silicone sheet to replace the cooling shroud material in the kit (never did like that stuff on my Maule). Cool stuff, interesting properties, looking for more applications just because. Thanks! Bill Linn Walters wrote: > > > My good buddy and RV-10 builder optede for the SS heat boxes. I > didn't ..... yet. > He had some thin red silicone sheet that he bonded to the flapper to > seal the hole when closed. I did the same (he gave me enough to do > mine) bonding the sheet to the flapper with red silicone from the tube > and closing the flapper while the silicone cured. > I'm into fire prevention (I know it's impossible to get it 100%) > rather than fire mitigation. > Linn > > > Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: >> >> >> Bill - a couple of issues with the stock heat boxes: >> - they're aluminum which partially defeats the purpose of having a >> stainless steel firewall since they're the only thing between the >> cabin and a pair of 2" holes. >> - the hinges on the stock aluminum boxes are sloppy and are at least >> part of the legendary "hot tunnel" issue. Air from the opposite side >> SCAT causes the flapper to lift on the hinge side and allow hot air >> in even if the flapper is closed. You won't feel flow but will get >> hot air in there. >> >> Bob >> RV-10 N442PM >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
If I were building a plane today this would be my list: I'll try to go from front to back * I would stay with the Hartzell prop - I like the extra weight up front for CG * Add the front wheel Matco spacer that he sells * I would make the lower cowl opening larger so I could drop my cowl more (I still can do this) * I would not install the cowl hinge on the bottom of the plane. Use something else more solid. Mine cracked after 150 hours and I have read about this happening to many others. I used a solid piece of aluminum and nutplates. * The Lightspeed iginition is great and I am not sure about the new technology coming out but I would buy what Bart at Aerosport tells me to buy. * I would probably go with the standard PlanePower Alternator instead of the B&C I used. The B&C is great and at the time they did not use PlanePower * Not completely sure if I would ceramic coat my exhaust but I probably would * I would definitely put more fiberglass around my windows on the gap between the window and the cabin top to prevent cracking. * I would add the overhead console * I would use LED position and strobes lights * The HID's from duckworks are still some of the brightest and I like them. * For the interior there are more options now with Geoff's (Aerosport) side panels so I would have to think about that. I would use his panel since Lancair doesn't make them anymore. Abby at Flightline also does a great job. * Panel: I just don't know but it would be the G900 if I was going expensive or I would do the G3X, Advanced or Grand Rapids. They are all great options today and I would probably spend less today knowing that I will want to upgrade every 5-7 years anyway. There are so many awesome panels out there and it is dependent on budget and personal preference. * I would add TCAS for me or ADS-B for flatlander flying. ADS-B just does not have good coverage out here in the mountains. * I would add APRS during the build (I will be adding it this month) for continuous tracking. * You must replace the main wheel fairing extension on each wheel. * For rudder trim, I would add electric trim from the beginning. I will install a rudder bias system sometime soon. * I would not use the Bob Archer Nav antenna and go with a whisker type below the rudder. I just don't feel my range is as good. * The stock tires are OK but the new tubes and retreads are much better and don't leak air nearly as fast. (But wear our the stock one's first I would think) * Make sure you have a solid rudder lock system. It only takes prop blast from one plane or a windy day to destroy your rudder. If I leave the plane for more than 2 seconds I put the rudder lock in. I don't know if I thought of everything. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Dave Fritzsche (Building) <fritzsch(at)eskimo.com> Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 10:33:57 AM Subject: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? This question is primarily for those who have been flying for a while and have gained significant use experience. I believe the response will be very helpful to those of us who are in the building process and wrestling with decisions of what to put into our aircraft in terms of electronics, engines, modifications and also useful techniques used to complete the building process. I am not asking for what is best (no primer wars here) but for what you believe you learned from your experience. If you were starting to build an RV-10 given you current knowledge gained from building and flying you RV-10, what would you do differently in completing the project? Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Fritzsche 40813 Puyallup, WA Wings ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Vents
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Which vents that Steinair sells will fit in the overhead console? There are 2 types, one that receives scat tube directly and one with a plenum. I'm not sure if the plenum will fit in the overhead space? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308307#308307 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bronze Lindy RV10 For Sale
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Guys, I built this RV10 (3 years of my blood, sweat, and tears) for my brother. He owns it and needs to sell it. It hurts me just to write this. Kit # is 40512. If you are looking for a very nice RV10, this may be just the ticket. More info can be found at the link below. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6vuex/ Thanks, Joe -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308312#308312 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Vents
Date: Aug 10, 2010
You answered your own question. With the overhead, the entire overhead is pressurized and you don't need scat tube connected directly to the vents. The smaller vent is the one you want. The smaller one is also what you'll need if you have the Aerosport panel for the front vents too. The larger vent is just too big for either location. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:48 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Overhead Console Vents Which vents that Steinair sells will fit in the overhead console? There are 2 types, one that receives scat tube directly and one with a plenum. I'm not sure if the plenum will fit in the overhead space? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308307#308307 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Bronze Lindy RV10 For Sale
Date: Aug 10, 2010
NIce frickin job...it looks great and the price is right for someone! It is probably worth more. I Hope you get what it is worth. > Subject: RV10-List: Bronze Lindy RV10 For Sale > From: zackrv8(at)verizon.net > Date: Tue=2C 10 Aug 2010 19:18:00 -0700 > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > > Guys=2C > > I built this RV10 (3 years of my blood=2C sweat=2C and tears) for my b rother. He owns it and needs to sell it. It hurts me just to write this. Kit # is 40512. If you are looking for a very nice RV10=2C this may be ju st the ticket. > > More info can be found at the link below. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6vuex/ > > Thanks=2C > Joe > > -------- > RV8 #80125 > RV10 # 40512 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308312#308312 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Vents
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Oh yea, that's right, thanks -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308318#308318 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Bronze Lindy RV10 For Sale
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Lotsa luck getting that price...Maybe I shoulda chromed my hinges Rick N246RS Sent from my iPhone On Aug 10, 2010, at 7:18 PM, "zackrv8" wrote: > > Guys, > > I built this RV10 (3 years of my blood, sweat, and tears) for my > brother. He owns it and needs to sell it. It hurts me just to > write this. Kit # is 40512. If you are looking for a very nice > RV10, this may be just the ticket. > > More info can be found at the link below. > > http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6vuex/ > > Thanks, > Joe > > -------- > RV8 #80125 > RV10 # 40512 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308312#308312 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Subject: Re: Bronze Lindy RV10 For Sale
That plane is worth every penny at 250,000. Actually compared to other certified planes is it worth TWICE that. ____________________________________________________________ Get Auto Insurance Now Complete an Online Quote Now & Save. Big on Coverage You Can Rely on! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c62296db7f2b65f2a1st06vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2010
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bronze Lindy RV10 For Sale
Beautiful aircraft, great job. You need to have your brother sell it to you at cost. He will regret it later. That would be one nice aircraft for someone wanting a finished RV-10. I was blown away again at the $600,000 Cirrus/Columbia aircraft at Oshkosh. Your aircraft is such a better value. -Scott Schmidt Sent from my iPhone On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:18 PM, "zackrv8" wrote: Guys, I built this RV10 (3 years of my blood, sweat, and tears) for my brother. He owns it and needs to sell it. It hurts me just to write this. Kit # is 40512. If you are looking for a very nice RV10, this may be just the ticket. More info can be found at the link below. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6vuex/ Thanks, Joe -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308312#308312 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight tracker
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Thanks for the responses. I am tracking him at this moment on FlightAware (9:20 AM, arrival 11:22AM). N620EB I am just refreshing every few minutes, is that the only way to get "live" tracking? Later, - Lew -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 Fly off completed ! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308347#308347 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight tracker
Date: Aug 11, 2010
From: "Brent P. Humphreys" <bhumphreys(at)stonetek.com>
On my browser flightaware will refresh every few minutes on its own. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:21 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flight tracker Thanks for the responses. I am tracking him at this moment on FlightAware (9:20 AM, arrival 11:22AM). N620EB I am just refreshing every few minutes, is that the only way to get "live" tracking? Later, - Lew -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 Fly off completed ! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308347#308347 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Overhead Console Airflow
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Another overhead console question: Do you get enough airflow, and in the right location from the overhead conso le only? I am thinking of only using the overhead vents for the front seat. .... Unless they don't have enough airflow or airflow not in the right plac es..... Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2010
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
You need both. I would not jut put in the overhead. I just don't think you would be happy in the long run. I still use the side vents for the front seats the most. Dr Fred. Michael Kraus wrote: > Another overhead console question: > > Do you get enough airflow, and in the right location from the overhead > console only? I am thinking of only using the overhead vents for the > front seat..... Unless they don't have enough airflow or airflow not > in the right places..... > > Sent from my iPhone > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
No real world experience since I'm building, but I'm installing the normal front seat air vents, and adding the overhead console with air vents for front and rear seats. Only one NACA scoop on the right side behind baggage area feeds the OH console (from other comments here). I also covered over the rear side vents that appears to cool the belly buttons of the rear pass. I'll be flying mostly in FL, and that means those draggy vents will be open most all of the time. Plus the crappy little arm as a way of opening/closing the vent didn't strike me as aesthetically pleasing.. Linn Michael Kraus wrote: > Another overhead console question: > > Do you get enough airflow, and in the right location from the overhead > console only? I am thinking of only using the overhead vents for the > front seat..... Unless they don't have enough airflow or airflow not > in the right places..... > > Sent from my iPhone > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Subject: Overhead Console Airflow
Date: Aug 11, 2010
I would not cover up the side vents. I have both overhead vents and side vents. Passengers like both of them. More vents the better. Just my 2 cents worth after 135 hrs flying and one of the hottest summers in Ohio recently Geoff -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:44 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Overhead Console Airflow No real world experience since I'm building, but I'm installing the normal front seat air vents, and adding the overhead console with air vents for front and rear seats. Only one NACA scoop on the right side behind baggage area feeds the OH console (from other comments here). I also covered over the rear side vents that appears to cool the belly buttons of the rear pass. I'll be flying mostly in FL, and that means those draggy vents will be open most all of the time. Plus the crappy little arm as a way of opening/closing the vent didn't strike me as aesthetically pleasing.. Linn Michael Kraus wrote: Another overhead console question: Do you get enough airflow, and in the right location from the overhead console only? I am thinking of only using the overhead vents for the front seat..... Unless they don't have enough airflow or airflow not in the right places..... Sent from my iPhone 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List%22">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href="3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http://www.matroni cs.co m/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Subject: Overhead Console Airflow
Message Agreed! Robin *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Geoff Combs *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:23 AM *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Overhead Console Airflow I would not cover up the side vents. I have both overhead vents and side vents. Passengers like both of them. More vents the better. Just my 2 cents worth after 135 hrs flying and one of the hottest summers in Ohio recently Geoff * * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight tracker
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
I brought by Spot2 along with me to OSH and back to ease the anxiety of my wife. It is quite cool. Costs $150 for the unit and $100-150 for the bells and whistles annually. Anyway you have different options to use including breadcrumb tracking and "hi - here I am and I am ok". It sends an e-mail/instant message (with a 1 minute or so delay) to any e-mail enabled cel phone. She was able to see my exact position all the way across the west in near real-time. I just pushed the, "I am ok" button every 10-20 minutes. It is velcro fixed to the top of the panel. Since I only have a 121.5 ELT, it provides a nice back-up emergency system. It has pretty much world wide coverage. If someone in back had carried one on the Ted Stevens plane the EMS guys might have been on the scene more quickly. See Findmespot.com. there have also been several write-ups recently in the aviation press about the Spot. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308378#308378 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Flight tracker
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Several alternatives. http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4063257 use of APRS trackers by hams; track appears on the internet. using RTG from www.byonics.com KE7TPH no monthly or annual fees. I too have only the 121.5 ELT. ----- Original Message ----- From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flight tracker > > I brought by Spot2 along with me to OSH and back to ease the anxiety of my > wife. It is quite cool. Costs $150 for the unit and $100-150 for the bells > and whistles annually. Anyway you have different options to use including > breadcrumb tracking and "hi - here I am and I am ok". It sends an > e-mail/instant message (with a 1 minute or so delay) to any e-mail enabled > cel phone. She was able to see my exact position all the way across the > west in near real-time. I just pushed the, "I am ok" button every 10-20 > minutes. It is velcro fixed to the top of the panel. Since I only have a > 121.5 ELT, it provides a nice back-up emergency system. It has pretty much > world wide coverage. If someone in back had carried one on the Ted Stevens > plane the EMS guys might have been on the scene more quickly. See > Findmespot.com. there have also been several write-ups recently in the > aviation press about the Spot. > > -------- > OSH '10 or Bust > Q/B - finally done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308378#308378 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2010
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
Thanks for that feedback. I was just wondering about these factory vents. The rear side vents seem to point at the belly buttons. The front one seems to be aimed at ones crotch. I was wondering about eliminating those, but alas i'll leave them be. It is strange to be hearing about heat waves in the rest of the world. The bay area and most of CA is having lower than average if not record low temperatures all summer long. We'll be lucky if we break 60F. Of course, weldon still skinned over quicker than I expected. Will have to change my routine on the next window. Jae 40533 On 8/11/2010 9:11 AM, Robin Marks wrote: > > Agreed! > > Robin > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Geoff Combs > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:23 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Overhead Console Airflow > > I would not cover up the side vents. I have both overhead vents and > side vents. Passengers like both of them. More vents the better. > > Just my 2 cents worth after 135 hrs flying and one of the hottest > summers in Ohio recently > > Geoff > > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Flight tracker
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Thanks for the additional resources, I'll check into it. After Brent's comment, I surfed FlightAware's site further and found that if I registered and logged in, I too get automatic refreshes. Probably that is good enough for me, but the other tracking methods may be of interest to Wes's wife. This is the first real trip he's made so she is torn between wanting to know everything is going OK vs. being too scared to watch! I, on the other hand, was so excited watching his progress that I'm considering doping up my motion sickness so I can go with him on the next one! By the way, he says it is very hot and humid in Florida and he will be filling up the ice chest a/c for the trip back. Later, - Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "DLM" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:45 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Flight tracker > > Several alternatives. > > http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4063257 > > use of APRS trackers by hams; track appears on the internet. using RTG > from www.byonics.com KE7TPH > > no monthly or annual fees. I too have only the 121.5 ELT. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flight tracker > > >> >> I brought by Spot2 along with me to OSH and back to ease the anxiety of >> my wife. It is quite cool. Costs $150 for the unit and $100-150 for the >> bells and whistles annually. Anyway you have different options to use >> including breadcrumb tracking and "hi - here I am and I am ok". It sends >> an e-mail/instant message (with a 1 minute or so delay) to any e-mail >> enabled cel phone. She was able to see my exact position all the way >> across the west in near real-time. I just pushed the, "I am ok" button >> every 10-20 minutes. It is velcro fixed to the top of the panel. Since I >> only have a 121.5 ELT, it provides a nice back-up emergency system. It >> has pretty much world wide coverage. If someone in back had carried one >> on the Ted Stevens plane the EMS guys might have been on the scene more >> quickly. See Findmespot.com. there have also been several write-ups >> recently in the aviation press about the Spot. >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust >> Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308378#308378 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
My overhead does not supply fresh air, only air conditioned air or just the blower fan. I put in the upgraded aluminum front seat vents and am very happy with them. Those front seat vents are capable of bringing in a LOT of air and can be aimed where you want it. I would definitely keep them. I don't have passengers in the back seat too often, but have had no complaints about the rear vents. I installed the little knobs that Alex D. sells to open and close them. They work fine. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308405#308405 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
Date: Aug 11, 2010
I'm about to rivet on the F-1074 (tail cone forward top skin). All of my wires are routed and secured... all of my d-subs are assembled... all of my TNC and BNC connectors are crimped on and ready to go. The last things I think I might need to consider are my GNS-430W and ELT antenna doublers (they will mount to the F-1074). As I'm currently operating in an "economy" phase of the build (I don't want to buy anything I don't have to to keep moving ahead), I don't have these antennae. Is this something I can easily do with the F-1074 attached? Does anyone have pictures of these antennae mounted? Is there anything I'm not thinking of here? Thank you all, as always, Jeff Carpenter 40304 Wires, wires everywhere ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
So which are the better of the vents that Steinair sells for the overhead, the 1 1/4 or the 1 3/4, someone mentioned the smaller ones work better? Wouldn't the larger provide more air flow? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308415#308415 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Dave use the smaller ones. That is what it was designed for they work great. Geoff Geoff Combs President Aerosport Modeling & Design 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110 614-834-5227p 614-834-5230f www.aerosportmodeling.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:57 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Overhead Console Airflow So which are the better of the vents that Steinair sells for the overhead, the 1 1/4 or the 1 3/4, someone mentioned the smaller ones work better? Wouldn't the larger provide more air flow? -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308415#308415 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Dave, I used vents that look like these http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/largealumav.php However, I did not buy them from Spruce. I bought mine, in black, from Van's about 2 1/2 years ago. I looked on Van's site and they don't appear to offer them any more. They were an exact fit for the vent and they work great. I don't recall what I paid for them at Van's, but I believe they were still a little more expensive than Stein's vents. I can't find any photo's of mine installed, but they look great, work great, and don't leak. (I have put them through pretty serious rain tests) [Shocked] -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308420#308420 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
rvdave wrote: > So which are the better of the vents that Steinair sells for the overhead, the 1 1/4 or the 1 3/4, someone mentioned the smaller ones work better? Wouldn't the larger provide more air flow? I think it might depend on your panel design. I have a SteinAir RV-10 panel and used the larger vents I mentioned in my previous post. They fit perfectly. I suspect that some of the other custom panels out there might work better with a smaller vent. $.02 worth -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308422#308422 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. I installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that skin, so having if off made the job very easy. Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
Date: Aug 11, 2010
yep, David... that's been my approach. I'm thinking I'm late in the build and it's time to put it on. My need to not spend much money at the moment is the only thing that has me hoping that I can add the doublers later, when I fork over the big bucks for the 430W, without too much trouble. On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:30 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote: > > Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. > I installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that > skin, so having if off made the job very easy. > Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Another approach is to mount the GPS antennas on top of the glare shield, and the ELT antenna under the empennage fairing. On my 8A I covered the white Garmin GPS antenna with dark cloth to eliminate glare. The GPS and XM antennas for the 396 are also mounted on the glare shield. I'll do the same on my RV-10 project. Carl Froehlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:49 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting yep, David... that's been my approach. I'm thinking I'm late in the build and it's time to put it on. My need to not spend much money at the moment is the only thing that has me hoping that I can add the doublers later, when I fork over the big bucks for the 430W, without too much trouble. On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:30 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote: > > Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. > I installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that > skin, so having if off made the job very easy. > Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
You want to pay attention to distance requirements for the GPS antenna, probably at least 2 ft from any com antenna, including ELT. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > yep, David... that's been my approach. I'm thinking I'm late in the build > and it's time to put it on. My need to not spend much money at the moment > is the only thing that has me hoping that I can add the doublers later, when > I fork over the big bucks for the 430W, without too much trouble. > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:30 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote: > >> >> Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. I >> installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that skin, so >> having if off made the job very easy. >> Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. >> >> -------- >> David Maib >> RV-10 #40559 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net>
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
Date: Aug 11, 2010
You want to make sure the elt antenna is in a location protected from damage incase of a roll over. Ie hack just fwd of the Vert stab. That is a requirement on a certified product. I do not know how affective the antenna would be, being under the fairing panel in the Vert stab either, there designed to be vertically mounted not horizontally. John G. Cumins President 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94534 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax Your Total Technology Solution Provider -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting You want to pay attention to distance requirements for the GPS antenna, probably at least 2 ft from any com antenna, including ELT. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > yep, David... that's been my approach. I'm thinking I'm late in the build > and it's time to put it on. My need to not spend much money at the moment > is the only thing that has me hoping that I can add the doublers later, when > I fork over the big bucks for the 430W, without too much trouble. > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:30 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote: > >> >> Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. I >> installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that skin, so >> having if off made the job very easy. >> Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. >> >> -------- >> David Maib >> RV-10 #40559 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2010
From: Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators
I would appreciate any feedback regarding the selection of both the main an d =0Aauxiliary drive alternators please, as I'd like to compare the Plane P ower and B =0A& C offerings please.=0A-=0AI'm obviously looking at cost, but reliability, performance, after sales service =0Aand ease of mounting t he units also come into play.=0A-=0AYour thoughts would be very much appr eciated, especially when you've never seen =0Aany of these products before you buy.=0A-=0AKind regards from (cold) down-under.=0A-=0APATRICK PULIS =0ARV-10 Serial No. 40299--------- VH-XPP (Reserved)=0AAd elaide, South Australia=0A-=0ATel: ---- +61 8 8236 6808=0AFax: --- +61 8 8236 6899=0A-=0AMob: - +61 0418 850 156=0A-=0A60% Don e - 90% To Go!=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
Date: Aug 11, 2010
One consideration is the aircraft attitude after a crash. The ELT antenna mounted horizontally but in a protected area under the empennage fairing may just be vertical when you need it most. If the aircraft flips over, a roof mounted antenna is not much good. Carl Froehlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:30 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting You want to make sure the elt antenna is in a location protected from damage incase of a roll over. Ie hack just fwd of the Vert stab. That is a requirement on a certified product. I do not know how affective the antenna would be, being under the fairing panel in the Vert stab either, there designed to be vertically mounted not horizontally. John G. Cumins President 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94534 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax Your Total Technology Solution Provider -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting You want to pay attention to distance requirements for the GPS antenna, probably at least 2 ft from any com antenna, including ELT. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > yep, David... that's been my approach. I'm thinking I'm late in the build > and it's time to put it on. My need to not spend much money at the moment > is the only thing that has me hoping that I can add the doublers later, when > I fork over the big bucks for the 430W, without too much trouble. > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:30 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote: > >> >> Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. I >> installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that skin, so >> having if off made the job very easy. >> Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. >> >> -------- >> David Maib >> RV-10 #40559 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Just to be the first wise guy......what will the orientation of the airplane be after it crashes. :) I put mine under the fairing, but may change when I go to the new unit. Rene' Felker N423CF 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:30 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting You want to make sure the elt antenna is in a location protected from damage incase of a roll over. Ie hack just fwd of the Vert stab. That is a requirement on a certified product. I do not know how affective the antenna would be, being under the fairing panel in the Vert stab either, there designed to be vertically mounted not horizontally. John G. Cumins President 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94534 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax Your Total Technology Solution Provider -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting You want to pay attention to distance requirements for the GPS antenna, probably at least 2 ft from any com antenna, including ELT. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > yep, David... that's been my approach. I'm thinking I'm late in the build > and it's time to put it on. My need to not spend much money at the moment > is the only thing that has me hoping that I can add the doublers later, when > I fork over the big bucks for the 430W, without too much trouble. > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:30 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote: > >> >> Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. I >> installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that skin, so >> having if off made the job very easy. >> Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. >> >> -------- >> David Maib >> RV-10 #40559 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Patrick, I have a B&C 40 Amp alternator in my RV8 that is 10 years old. Never had a problem with it at all. Bullet proof in my opinion. So much so, I put a 60 amp B&C in the RV10 that I built. I also used their Linear Regulator. B&C provides all the mounting hardware you need. Piece of cake to install. Zack -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308442#308442 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/22_102.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/21_178.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2010
From: Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
-Would you put your com antenna in the fairing, if you do what- great t ransmission and reception you would have. The elt antenna is a transmitter and very flexible. If you do go on your- back if you should have a accident you still have two sides open but think how much you have if in the fairing, the vertical and the horizontal is bl ocking it's signal. -That's just my two cents. Patrick Thyssen N15PT --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Carl Froehlich wrote: From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 8:56 PM et> One consideration is the aircraft attitude after a crash.- The ELT antenn a mounted horizontally but in a protected area under the empennage fairing ma y just be vertical when you need it most.- If the aircraft flips over, a- roof mounted antenna is not much good. Carl Froehlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:30 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting You want to make sure the elt antenna is in a location protected from damag e incase of a roll over.- Ie hack just fwd of the Vert stab.- That is a requirement on a certified product.- I do not know how affective the ante nna would be, being under the fairing panel in the Vert stab either, there designed to be vertically mounted not horizontally. John G. Cumins President - 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94534 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax - Your Total Technology Solution Provider -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting You want to pay attention to distance requirements for the GPS antenna, probably at least- 2 ft from any com antenna, including ELT. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > yep, David... that's been my approach. -I'm thinking I'm late in the bu ild > and it's time to put it on. -My need to not spend much money at the mom ent > is the only thing that has me hoping that I can add the doublers later, when > I fork over the big bucks for the 430W, without too much trouble. > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:30 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote: > >> >> Jeff, I left that top forward skin off until very late in the build. I >> installed my gps antennas on the tailcone top just aft of that skin, so >> having if off made the job very easy. >> Having the access from the top as long as possible was a good thing. >> >> -------- >> David Maib >> RV-10 #40559 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308425#308425 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
From: "rvdave" <davidbf(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Aug 11, 2010
aerosport1 wrote: > Dave use the smaller ones. That is what it was designed for they work great. > > Geoff > -- Thanks Geoff, that's just what I wanted to know. -------- Dave Ford RV6 flying RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308449#308449 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2010
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Mooney has FAA approval to mount the 406 ELT in just that same location. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Rene Felker wrote: > > Just to be the first wise guy......what will the orientation of the airplane > be after it crashes. :) > > I put mine under the fairing, but may change when I go to the new unit. > > Rene' Felker > N423CF > 801-721-6080 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net>
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
Date: Aug 12, 2010
Where does the input for the airflow for vents in the upper console come from? Are some NACA vents put somewhere in the tailcone area connected via SCAT tubing to the rear of the overhead console through the rear baggage area bulkhead? Richard Bibb 571-379-3290 mobile -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmaib(at)me.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Overhead Console Airflow rvdave wrote: > So which are the better of the vents that Steinair sells for the overhead, the 1 1/4 or the 1 3/4, someone mentioned the smaller ones work better? Wouldn't the larger provide more air flow? I think it might depend on your panel design. I have a SteinAir RV-10 panel and used the larger vents I mentioned in my previous post. They fit perfectly. I suspect that some of the other custom panels out there might work better with a smaller vent. $.02 worth -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308422#308422 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Airflow
Date: Aug 12, 2010
Richard here are some pictures of what a lot of people are doing. It works really good and very easy to install. Also is a picture of my Controller valve so I can adjust airflow as needed and totally shut of in the winter. Hope this helps Geoff Geoff Combs N829GW -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Overhead Console Airflow Where does the input for the airflow for vents in the upper console come from? Are some NACA vents put somewhere in the tailcone area connected via SCAT tubing to the rear of the overhead console through the rear baggage area bulkhead? Richard Bibb 571-379-3290 mobile -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmaib(at)me.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Overhead Console Airflow rvdave wrote: > So which are the better of the vents that Steinair sells for the > overhead, the 1 1/4 or the 1 3/4, someone mentioned the smaller ones work better? Wouldn't the larger provide more air flow? I think it might depend on your panel design. I have a SteinAir RV-10 panel and used the larger vents I mentioned in my previous post. They fit perfectly. I suspect that some of the other custom panels out there might work better with a smaller vent. $.02 worth -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308422#308422 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2010
Subject: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators
I've got both a B&C 60 amp primary and a 20 amp aux alternator and never ha d any issue. My goal was extremely high reliability in the electrical syst em and after doing a fair amount of research (certified and experimental) I settled on these. What I found is that while you will hear people complai n about the price, it's very difficult to find somebody that complains abou t their quality or reliability. As to Plane Power - no opinion. Bob RV-10 N442PM From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:46 PM Subject: RV10-List: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators I would appreciate any feedback regarding the selection of both the main an d auxiliary drive alternators please, as I'd like to compare the Plane Powe r and B & C offerings please. I'm obviously looking at cost, but reliability, performance, after sales se rvice and ease of mounting the units also come into play. Your thoughts would be very much appreciated, especially when you've never seen any of these products before you buy. Kind regards from (cold) down-under. PATRICK PULIS RV-10 Serial No. 40299 VH-XPP (Reserved) Adelaide, South Australia Tel: +61 8 8236 6808 Fax: +61 8 8236 6899 Mob: +61 0418 850 156 60% Done - 90% To Go! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
Subject: ELT antenna
Date: Aug 12, 2010
I took a 7.25 inch piece of 1/16th welding rod, welded a nutplate to the end and used a router to cut a groove in the under side of the cabin top, running forward, just ahead of the F1074 skin and bulkhead. I then attached a second nutplate to the backup strip where the pop rivets go thru the cabin top. Then fill the groove with the wire in it with micro. This was all done with the top upside down on the bench, but could be a (somewhat messy) retrofit, with the top installed. What you now have is a tuned (1/4 wave for 406 mhz) vertically polarized antenna, with ground plane (the aft bulkhead, F1074 skin, aluminum backing strip assembly). The vertical polarization is best for satellite reception, assuming the aircraft isn't standing on it's nose after the crash. The crash protected and completely hidden antenna is wired with the center conductor of the coax to the nutplate on the wire, and the shield to the ground plane nutplate. The 406 tuned aspect of the antenna and vertical polarization is not optimum for the 121.5 mhz transmission function of the ELT, but I prefer to have the antenna optimized for the satellite freqs. I can attest to the function of this setup with an inadvertent activation of this same type of installation I have in my RV8. The ELT antenna in the 8 is mounted in the wingtip the same way, with the rod going out horizontally into the wingtip, and the outboard rib being the ground plane and mounting structure. I accidentally set the ELT off trying to test it , and in less than ten minutes , I received a call from the USAF asking about the ELT hits. I apologized profusely, and explained that I was still trying to get all the screws out of the wingtip to shut the damn thing off. The remote switch turned it on OK, but wouldn't shut it off! I had tried to call the tower, but they didn't even know what a 406 ELT was, let alone the phone number to call to report a false alarm (800 851-3051). Anyway, the nice Zoomie said no problem sir. I then asked him where his satellite was showing me to be, and he said in the northwest corner of KVGT. This was from an aircraft in a closed STEEL hangar (in the NW corner of the airport). This ELT does not have GPS interface! The satellite triangulation was giving him a very accurate position of my ELT, even without the GPS! Maybe the Sats aren't that good in other places of the world, but wow, am I a believer. I can't imagine anybody not availing themselves of this technology. I too have APRS installed (KE7HKK) , which I agree with Tim is fantastic . I also carry a GPS enabled PLB on board, but no way would I travel in an aircraft without a 406 ELT. Chris Hukill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2010
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: ELT antenna
Only one small fly in the ointment, if your DAR or FAA decide to be picky. All ELT's must be TSO'd by regulation. The antenna that they demonstrate TSO compliance is part of the TSO approval, and it is not legal to substitute another antenna. Does not matter whether it is on homebuilt, warbird or ordinary type certificated aircraft. I'm rather certain what you have does a fine job. Just not what the paper pushers would bless. Kelly On 8/12/2010 7:44 AM, Chris Hukill wrote: > I took a 7.25 inch piece of 1/16th welding rod, welded a nutplate to > the end and used a router to cut a groove in the under side of the > cabin top, running forward, just ahead of the F1074 skin and bulkhead. > I then attached a second nutplate to the backup strip where the pop > rivets go thru the cabin top. Then fill the groove with the wire in it > with micro. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2010
Subject: Re: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators
From: Richard Martin <martinaerodrome(at)gmail.com>
I have 2000 plus hours on my RV8 with the B&C 40 amp alternators with satisfactory performance. I have a total electric airplane, avionecs, ignition etc. I used tthe 40 ampt size because I wnated to make the airplanne as light as possible. No paint, light seats full IFR etc. Good luck Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote: > I would appreciate any feedback regarding the selection of both the main > and auxiliary drive alternators please, as I'd like to compare the *Plane > Power* and *B & C* offerings please. > > I'm obviously looking at cost, but reliability, performance, after sales > service and ease of mounting the units also come into play. > > Your thoughts would be very much appreciated, especially when you've never > seen any of these products before you buy. > > Kind regards from (cold) down-under. > > > *PATRICK PULIS* > > *RV-10 Serial No. 40299 VH-XPP (Reserved)* > > *Adelaide, South Australia* > > * * > > *Tel: +61 8 8236 6808* > > *Fax: +61 8 8236 6899* > > * * > > *Mob: +61 0418 850 156* > > * * > > *60% Done - 90% To Go!* > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2010
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators
I don't have any direct comparison. I have the B&C 60 amp and it has been great. It would be interesting to see both of them taken apart. At Oshkosh the B&C booth will compare a standard aircraft alternator to theirs and the B&C is just built better, better bearings, more windings, ect.... When I received my FWF kit in early 2006 they were supplying a Mazda alternator with the kit and gave me a $30-$40 credit when I returned it. I'm sure it works fine and can be easily replaced but I perceived the B&C as more reliable for my all glass panel with no analog backup. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Richard Martin <martinaerodrome(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 9:57:46 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators I have 2000 plus hours on my RV8 with the B&C 40 amp alternators with satisfactory performance. I have a total electric airplane, avionecs, ignition etc. I used tthe 40 ampt size because I wnated to make the airplanne as light as possible. No paint, light seats full IFR etc. Good luck Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote: I would appreciate any feedback regarding the selection of both the main and auxiliary drive alternators please, as I'd like to compare the Plane Power and B & C offerings please. > >I'm obviously looking at cost, but reliability, performance, after sales service >and ease of mounting the units also come into play. > >Your thoughts would be very much appreciated, especially when you've never seen >any of these products before you buy. > >Kind regards from (cold) down-under. > >PATRICK PULIS >RV-10 Serial No. 40299 VH-XPP (Reserved) >Adelaide, South Australia > >Tel: +61 8 8236 6808 >Fax: +61 8 8236 6899 > >Mob: +61 0418 850 156 > >60% Done - 90% To Go! > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 12, 2010
Since Jeff also mentioned the GNS 430W antenna, how are folks filling the gaps under the antenna on curved surfaces? John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308547#308547 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2010
From: <mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: GPS and ELT Antennae mounting
Here's the approach I took to mounting the 430W and other GPS antenna: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=0&log'214&row=22 Mounting the 430 antenna on the glass top makes the filling underneath pretty straight forward - just glop some flox/micro mix under it. After attending a seminar by our local panel shop, I came away believing that the top of the canopy is an optimal location for the 430W antenna. Mounting the other ones at the top of the windsheild sort of mimics by 396 antenna mount in the Maule and I don't think it will be an eye sore. I was able to bring 3 cables plus a power and ground lead for the lights through the center post. Paid some attention to chafe relief at both ends. Bill "on short vacation from the project" Watson ---- johngoodman wrote: > > Since Jeff also mentioned the GNS 430W antenna, how are folks filling the gaps under the antenna on curved surfaces? > John > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308547#308547 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2010
From: Bruce Johnson <bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
I know it a little late on the things I would or wouldn't do but, I would =0Adefinitely not use Performance engines again, they are less than honest. And if =0Ayou happen to run into a guy named Wade Barnett, run away. Good luck to all-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Fred Williams, M.D." =0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Mon, August 9, 2010 4:01:29 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?=0A=0A--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." =0A=0A=0AMy 2 cents=0A =0A1.- Not install the center console.- It takes up some knee room on l ong =0Aflights.- Harder to service the tunnel.=0A=0A2. Move the- inline gas filter to two smaller units under the seats. =0A3. go with LED wingtip lights from the out set.=0A=0A4. simplify my panel.- I have two AFS efis panels, one for the co pilot/one for =0Ame,- Put it all into one in fron t of the pilot.- I do like the unit. =0A=0A5. Get the upgrades on the fro nt axle from the beginning.- I never had any =0Aproblems with the stock o ne, but the matco upgrade is worth the upgrade. =0A=0A6. simplify the audio panel.- All the rear jacks/entertainment just isn't very =0Auseful.- A s long as you have XM weather and radio, not much else is needed. =0A=0A7. fix the loose steps before I closed the lower pan.- Still gotta go back a nd =0Acut holes in the floor to stop the wiggle. =0A=0A8. Read and follow t he recent updates on the door construction and =0Ainstallation.- It will save you time and money and frustration.- The doors are =0Adoable, and yo u can get great results, if you go about it correctly. =0A=0ADr Fred=0A=0A7 takeoffs and landings this last Saturday.- What a great machine. =0A=0AD Fritzsche (Building)" =0A>=0A> =0A> This question is p rimarily for those who have been flying for a while and have =0A>gained sig nificant use experience.- I believe the response will be very helpful =0A >to those of us who are in the building process and wrestling with decision s of =0A>what to put into our aircraft in terms of electronics, engines, mo difications =0A>and also useful techniques used to complete the building pr ocess.- I am not =0A>asking for what is best (no primer wars here) but fo r what you believe you =0A>learned from your experience.=0A> =0A> If you we re starting to build an RV-10 given you current knowledge gained from =0A>b uilding and flying you RV-10, what would you do differently in completing t =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Date: Aug 12, 2010
On the flip side for those who may be running away. A place to consider going to is America's Aircraft Engine in Oklahoma http://www.overhaul.com/index.html, They are great to work with, and quite honest along the way. I would do that again Pascal From: Bruce Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:37 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? I know it a little late on the things I would or wouldn't do but, I would definitely not use Performance engines again, they are less than honest. And if you happen to run into a guy named Wade Barnett, run away. Good luck to all ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? My 2 cents 1. Not install the center console. It takes up some knee room on long flights. Harder to service the tunnel. 2. Move the inline gas filter to two smaller units under the seats. 3. go with LED wingtip lights from the out set. 4. simplify my panel. I have two AFS efis panels, one for the co pilot/one for me, Put it all into one in front of the pilot. I do like the unit. 5. Get the upgrades on the front axle from the beginning. I never had any problems with the stock one, but the matco upgrade is worth the upgrade. 6. simplify the audio panel. All the rear jacks/entertainment just isn't very useful. As long as you have XM weather and radio, not much else is needed. 7. fix the loose steps before I closed the lower pan. Still gotta go back and cut holes in the floor to stop the wiggle. 8. Read and follow the recent updates on the door construction and installation. It will save you time and money and frustration. The doors are doable, and you can get great results, if you go about it correctly. Dr Fred 7 takeoffs and landings this last Saturday. What a great machine. Dave Fritzsche (Building) wrote: > > This question is primarily for those who have been flying for a while and have gained significant use experience. I believe the response will be very helpful to those of us who are in the building process and wrestling with decisions of what to put into our aircraft in terms of electronics, engines, modifications and also useful techniques used to complete the building process. I am not asking for what is best (no primer wars here) but for what you believe you learned from your experience. > > If you were starting to build an RV-10 given you current knowledge gained from building and flying you RV-10, what would you do differently in completing the probsp; -Matt Dralle, ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2010
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
RE:Engine Choice It is sometimes difficult to know how many new builders join this site from time to time and things get repeated but when it comes to the engine we all want to make the best decision. Bart and Sue at Aerosport Power are fantastic. I know there are many builders here that have their engines. They are both honest, knowledgeable and very fun to work with. They stand behind their products and have great customer service. If you choose to use them you will not be disappointed. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 6:46:45 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? On the flip side for those who may be running away. A place to consider going to is America's Aircraft Engine in Oklahoma http://www.overhaul.com/index.html, They are great to work with, and quite honest along the way. I would do that again Pascal From: Bruce Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:37 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? I know it a little late on the things I would or wouldn't do but, I would definitely not use Performance engines again, they are less than honest. And if you happen to run into a guy named Wade Barnett, run away. Good luck to all ________________________________ From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? --> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." My 2 cents 1. Not install the center console. It takes up some knee room on long flights. Harder to service the tunnel. 2. Move the inline gas filter to two smaller units under the seats. 3. go with LED wingtip lights from the out set. 4. simplify my panel. I have two AFS efis panels, one for the co pilot/one for me, Put it all into one in front of the pilot. I do like the unit. 5. Get the upgrades on the front axle from the beginning. I never had any problems with the stock one, but the matco upgrade is worth the upgrade. 6. simplify the audio panel. All the rear jacks/entertainment just isn't very useful. As long as you have XM weather and radio, not much else is needed. 7. fix the loose steps before I closed the lower pan. Still gotta go back and cut holes in the floor to stop the wiggle. 8. Read and follow the recent updates on the door construction and installation. It will save you time and money and frustration. The doors are doable, and you can get great results, if you go about it correctly. Dr Fred 7 takeoffs and landings this last Saturday. What a great machine. Dave Fritzsche (Building) wrote: > > > This question is primarily for those who have been flying for a while and have >gained significant use experience. I believe the response will be very helpful >to those of us who are in the building process and wrestling with decisions of >what to put into our aircraft in terms of electronics, engines, modifications >and also useful techniques used to complete the building process. I am not >asking for what is best (no primer wars here) but for what you believe you >learned from your experience. > > If you were starting to build an RV-10 given you current knowledge gained from >building and flying you RV-10, what would you do differently in completing the >probsp; -Matt Dralle, > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2010
Subject: Prop Governor revisited
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
In reviewing the archives, I note that several times it was pointed out that Vans supplies a governor setup for the narrow deck Lycoming engine configuration, when most folks are using are wide deck engines that should get different dash number set for that engine. Is it worth deleting the Vans unit from the FWF kit and obtaining the correct one elsewhere, or are folks satisfied with repositioning the arm and resetting the max rpm on what Vans provides? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2010
Subject: Prop Governor revisited
As long as you have at least Rev F of the governor supplied by Vans you'll be fine. Revisions prior to that potentially have an issue with surging. I would imagine that anything you get delivered now will be latest revision. If others are reading this and they have an older Rev B or C prop governor, MT will update it to latest version without charge if you have issues. Bob RV-10 N442PM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: RV10-List: Prop Governor revisited In reviewing the archives, I note that several times it was pointed out that Vans supplies a governor setup for the narrow deck Lycoming engine configuration, when most folks are using are wide deck engines that should get different dash number set for that engine. Is it worth deleting the Vans unit from the FWF kit and obtaining the correct one elsewhere, or are folks satisfied with repositioning the arm and resetting the max rpm on what Vans provides? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
Date: Aug 13, 2010
My computer crashed a few months back and all my archived info I stored for years on the RV-10 was gone.. a good thing in a way actually.. but I bring this up because I have needed to resort to search the Matronics history for each item I am looking for, just as a new builder should do for information. There are numerous posts on good engine makers, Barrett is excellent for someone looking for a performance driven engine, Aerosport has kudos from VAF and others, if the dollar is right when you need an engine they are great, but if not one may need to look within the US (for us in the country) that is why it is great that Bruce gave his warning of who to avoid that will save many in the future from making that same mistake, I believe there is another builder who is now in Texas that had Performance engine build his so it would be good if someone has a different view on a builder to state it so in the future when one goes to search for this there will be numerous feedback on that item. For those that have not used the search capabilities of Matronics.. think about using it, it really is a great resource. In my case having the data on the -10 disappear forced me to look for current information versus 2-3 year old feedback so I encourage all of us to continue giving that feedback as 2-3 years ago there wasn't the items to skip in the finish kit as we all know now can be acquired elsewhere and the items in the aftermarket will continue to expand. I already have everything so it would not benefit me but it sure will for someone after me, which is what the forum is about. Pascal From: Scott Schmidt Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 7:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? RE:Engine Choice It is sometimes difficult to know how many new builders join this site from time to time and things get repeated but when it comes to the engine we all want to make the best decision. Bart and Sue at Aerosport Power are fantastic. I know there are many builders here that have their engines. They are both honest, knowledgeable and very fun to work with. They stand behind their products and have great customer service. If you choose to use them you will not be disappointed. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 6:46:45 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? On the flip side for those who may be running away. A place to consider going to is America's Aircraft Engine in Oklahoma http://www.overhaul.com/index.html, They are great to work with, and quite honest along the way. I would do that again Pascal From: Bruce Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:37 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? I know it a little late on the things I would or wouldn't do but, I would definitely not use Performance engines again, they are less than honest. And if you happen to run into a guy named Wade Barnett, run away. Good luck to all ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 4:01:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? My 2 cents 1. Not install the center console. It takes up some knee room on long flights. Harder to service the tunnel. 2. Move the inline gas filter to two smaller units under the seats. 3. go with LED wingtip lights from the out set. 4. simplify my panel. I have two AFS efis panels, one for the co pilot/one for me, Put it all into one in front of the pilot. I do like the unit. 5. Get the upgrades on the front axle from the beginning. I never had any problems with the stock one, but the matco upgrade is worth the upgrade. 6. simplify the audio panel. All the rear jacks/entertainment just isn't very useful. As long as you have XM weather and radio, not much else is needed. 7. fix the loose steps before I closed the lower pan. Still gotta go back and cut holes in the floor to stop the wiggle. 8. Read and follow the recent updates on the door construction and installation. It will save you time and money and frustration. The doors are doable, and you can get great results, if you go about it correctly. Dr Fred 7 takeoffs and landings this last Saturday. What a great machine. Dave Fritzsche (Building) wrote: > > This question is primarily for those who have been flying for a while and have gained significant use experience. I believe the response will be very helpful to those of us who are in the building process and wrestling with decisions of what to put into our aircraft in terms of electronics, engines, modifications and also useful techniques used to complete the building process. I am not asking for what is best (no primer wars here) but for what you believe you learned from your experience. > > If you were starting to build an RV-10 given you current knowledge gained from building and flying you RV-10, what would you do differently in completing the probsp; -Matt Dralle, href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru ms.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door Lock
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 13, 2010
OK, here's another gizmo. I got tired of trying to track down another same keyed lock for the passenger door (I'm not sure why Van's only gives you a keyed ignition, baggage door, and one passenger door -- and everybody is playing dumb about finding another lock to match the key number) ... so here's a simple and cheap solution. It may have been done before but I just did this: The pictures are of a slice of angle iron with one leg trimmed to slide between the inner door handle (Van's stock handles) and the lock button, and the other leg is a little larger than the end of the handle so that it can be removed easily. All this does when inserted from inside the plane is to prevent the release button from being pushed from the outside (or the inside), effectively locking the passenger door. Then just lock the pilot door from the outside. Done. Debate whether you want to fly with it locked or not, with or without large or small passengers, Wes won't. Later, - Lew -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 Fly off completed ! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308703#308703 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock4_small_164.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock3_small_100.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock2_small_351.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock1_small_333.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Door Lock
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2010
Very simple solution, but through Aircraft Spruce I ordered 3 lock sets keyed the same as my ignition. Were they not able to help you? Eric Kallio Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308704#308704 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Door Lock
Date: Aug 13, 2010
"and everybody is playing dumb about finding another lock to match the key number) ... so here's a simple and cheap solution." Another easy solution I'll throw out there- (courtesy of William Curtis- check his website for pictures) go to your local lowes /depot and buy all the locks you want. In the back of each lock box is the key code, get the boxes with the same key code and .. gee look at that all the locks work with the same key ;-) I think your design is swift! I however just drilled a 1/16 hole in the lock button and put a clip in there, does the same basic thing, but your design is a lot more solid than my pin.. for sure.. now if I can remember where that pin went Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:51 PM Subject: RV10-List: Door Lock > > OK, here's another gizmo. > > I got tired of trying to track down another same keyed lock for the > passenger door (I'm not sure why Van's only gives you a keyed ignition, > baggage door, and one passenger door -- and everybody is playing dumb > about finding another lock to match the key number) ... so here's a simple > and cheap solution. > > It may have been done before but I just did this: The pictures are of a > slice of angle iron with one leg trimmed to slide between the inner door > handle (Van's stock handles) and the lock button, and the other leg is a > little larger than the end of the handle so that it can be removed easily. > All this does when inserted from inside the plane is to prevent the > release button from being pushed from the outside (or the inside), > effectively locking the passenger door. Then just lock the pilot door > from the outside. > > Done. Debate whether you want to fly with it locked or not, with or > without large or small passengers, Wes won't. > > Later, - Lew > > -------- > non-pilot > crazy about building > NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 > Fly off completed ! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308703#308703 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock4_small_164.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock3_small_100.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock2_small_351.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/lock1_small_333.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Door Lock
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 13, 2010
Yes, I checked into the Lowe's /HD lock sets, but the keys won't match the ignition key. I left Wes to check with Van's about getting another lock to match the ignition -- he implied that their response was that it couldn't be done and nobody mentioned Spruce ... and I really didn't want to put another hole in a door anyway! Later, - Lew -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 Fly off completed ! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308712#308712 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Door Lock
Date: Aug 13, 2010
your solution is better anyway! -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 1:36 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Door Lock > > Yes, I checked into the Lowe's /HD lock sets, but the keys won't match the > ignition key. I left Wes to check with Van's about getting another lock > to match the ignition -- he implied that their response was that it > couldn't be done and nobody mentioned Spruce ... and I really didn't want > to put another hole in a door anyway! > > Later, - Lew > > -------- > non-pilot > crazy about building > NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549 > Fly off completed ! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308712#308712 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Governor revisited
Date: Aug 14, 2010
From: lessdragprod(at)aol.com
I believe the question being asked is "Is only getting 2550 RPM maximum ac ceptable when a (I)O-540 narrow deck governor is installed on a (I)O-540 wide deck engine". I wouldn't think so. Especially when Van's Aircraft could provide the correct governor. I am aware of them knowing about this for at least three years. Just my opinion. Jim Ayers RV-3 sn 10050 650 hours - LOM M332A engine - 3 blade electric CS MT Propel ler & Warne fixed pitch propeller RV-6A sn 21873 150 hours - Lyc. O-360 engine - metal 2 blade CS MT Propell er & 3 blade CS MT Propeller RV-4/HR2/modified sn 001 28 hiours - IO-540 narrow deck engine - counterwe ighted 4 blade CS MT Propeller & counterweighted 3 blade CS Propeller in process. -----Original Message----- From: Condrey, Bob (US SSA) <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 13, 2010 9:22 am Subject: RE: RV10-List: Prop Governor revisited ystems.com> As long as you have at least Rev F of the governor supplied by Vans you'll be ine. Revisions prior to that potentially have an issue with surging. I would magine that anything you get delivered now will be latest revision. If ot hers re reading this and they have an older Rev B or C prop governor, MT will update t to latest version without charge if you have issues. Bob V-10 N442PM -----Original Message----- rom: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] n Behalf Of Kelly McMullen ent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:02 AM o: rv10-list(at)matronics.com ubject: RV10-List: Prop Governor revisited In reviewing the archives, I note that several times it was pointed ut that Vans supplies a governor setup for the narrow deck Lycoming ngine configuration, when most folks are using are wide deck ngines that should get different dash number set for that engine. Is t worth deleting the Vans unit from the FWF kit and obtaining the orrect one elsewhere, or are folks satisfied with repositioning the rm and resetting the max rpm on what Vans provides? -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The RV10-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Governor revisited
From: "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2010
Stuff that keeps me up at night. Does anyone have pointers to links or threads that describe how to tell if one has Rev F? I looked over the MT docs in my possession, but didn't get a sense of rev number (could have missed it tho). My serial number ends in an "F"... Maybe that's good? Thanks, Jay bcondrey wrote: > As long as you have at least Rev F of the governor supplied by Vans you'll be fine. Revisions prior to that potentially have an issue with surging. > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308765#308765 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2010
Subject: Re: Prop Governor revisited
You're good then. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: jayb [mailto:jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 06:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Prop Governor revisited Stuff that keeps me up at night. Does anyone have pointers to links or threads that describe how to tell if one has Rev F? I looked over the MT docs in my possession, but didn't get a sense of rev number (could have missed it tho). My serial number ends in an "F"... Maybe that's good? Thanks, Jay bcondrey wrote: > As long as you have at least Rev F of the governor supplied by Vans you'll be fine. Revisions prior to that potentially have an issue with surging. > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308765#308765 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently?
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2010
Engine from Mattituck in NY. I and a lot of others have their Red/Gold engine, great support. Reasonable price. It is mass balanced, fine wire plugs, home delivered on a lift gate truck (no extra charge). Runs solid after 70 hrs. Used 1 qt of oil to OSH and back to the West Coast. It is standard compression which might be desirable if we go to a new fuel. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308782#308782 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Starting problems
From: William Hicks <bilhicks(at)swbell.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2010
Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Starting problems
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Aug 14, 2010
ACS site says it works with "impulse coupled, or retard breaker, mags...". Do you have some form of retarded timing on your mags, for start? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308820#308820 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2010
Subject: Re: Starting problems
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC. Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points aren't opening correctly. I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you release the start key, that is not happening. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Starting problems
No first hand experience, but I'm betting that the starter is drawing down the battery voltage so that the Slickstart doesn't get it's full share. Measure the voltage at the Slickstart while cranking. If you didn't run a ground wire from the battery to the engine compartment, you might entertain doing that now. If you have the normal Vans installation, check for a good connection at the battery ground to the airframe ....... get rid of the paint under the lug. Linn . William Hicks wrote: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Starting problems
Kellt and Bob's post got me to thinking ..... it could be that the engine cranking speed is higher than the Slickstart wants for retarded spark. Linn Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of > Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a > second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those > points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via > what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia > connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your > symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the > key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and > is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has > the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You > have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC. > Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points > aren't opening correctly. > I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start > documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and > verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to > fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker > points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and > that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you > release the start key, that is not happening. > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > >> >> Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2010
Subject: Re: Starting problems
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
That is possible. I have no problems with the traditional Bendix vibrator Shower of Sparks on my old Mooney with a Skytec high speed starter. In fact it starts just fine, hot or cold unless the head space and timing are not correct between the ears of the pilot. ;-) On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > Kelly and Bob's post got me to thinking ..... it could be that the engine > cranking speed is higher than the Slickstart wants for retarded spark. > Linn > > Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of > Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a > second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those > points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via > what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia > connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your > symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the > key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and > is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has > the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You > have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC. > Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points > aren't opening correctly. > I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start > documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and > verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to > fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker > points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and > that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you > release the start key, that is not happening. > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 > a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine > eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have > checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar > situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2010
Subject: Re: Starting problems
Engines with SlickStart get really hard to start when the retard points get worn. That can happen on some mags with very little time in service, i.e., as little as 100 hours. Check the condition of the retard points and time them per the instructions. Even retarded as much as one or two degrees after TC should be OK. Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 > a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine > eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have > checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar > situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Starting problems
From: Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2010
I had the same starting problem. I found that the start switch was wired wro ng so the retard breaker was not working and both mags fired at 25 BTDC. Rew ired switch and it starts correctly. Kevin Sent from my iPhone On Aug 14, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Dave Saylor wrote: > Engines with SlickStart get really hard to start when the retard points ge t worn. That can happen on some mags with very little time in service, i.e. , as little as 100 hours. Check the condition of the retard points and time them per the instructions. Even retarded as much as one or two degrees aft er TC should be OK. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA 95076 > 831-722-9141 Shop > 831-750-0284 Cell > > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrot e: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a 5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventua lly starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation an d if so did find a fix? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Brownsville California Photos - Inspiration!
We flew up to Brownsville California on Saturday and since the RV-8 had just had baby's first bath since the test flight (now at 85 hours TTSN, and almost 10,000 miles), there were some great opportunities for photo ops. Everyday I seem to enjoy flying the RV-8 even more. It is truly a joy to fly in every respect. On the way home, I had the IO-390 engine dialed in at 7000ft, 22.4" MP / 2200 RPM and 204 MPH True at 8.8 GPH. Earlier in the week I took it to 18,000ft (on oxygen) and was seeing 170 MPH True at 5.5 GPH, 192 MPH @ 6.5 GPH, and 202 MPG @ 7 GPH. At the 5.5 GPH, that's about a 1300 mile range less reserves. Coupled with the 3000+ FPM climb solo, its a truly amazing machine! Keep at it! You won't be sorry! It is so worth all the hard work! - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine Installation Pictures
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2010
Hey guys, I got my engine installed over the weekend. Below is a link to the photos my wife took during the whole process. http://www.rvten.com/fwf1.asp Regards, Mike Schipper #576 - Engine/Wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Subject: Air Intake bafflilng
Date: Aug 16, 2010
How tight up against the cowl opening do most folks have the small baffling on the filtered air box intake? Tim Dawson-Townsend N52KS tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Air Intake bafflilng
Date: Aug 15, 2010
As tight as is possible to get the bottom cowling on and off. really all you need is the seal to overlap the inlet enough that there is no air gap the air to escape through. Pascal From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: Air Intake bafflilng How tight up against the cowl opening do most folks have the small baffling on the filtered air box intake? Tim Dawson-Townsend N52KS tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Subject: Fuel drain valve
Date: Aug 16, 2010
Anyone use a flush fuel tank drain valve instead of the standard one? (i.e . a SAF-AIR SA18 instead of the standard CAV-110?) Is that doable? It's also a 1/8 NPT thread, so it should work fine. TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend N52KS tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Intake bafflilng
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2010
Get it as tight as you can, but it is a kind of toss-up between ease of getting the lower cowl off and a good tight fit. I concede that I cut it back a bit to get the cowl on and off. I still have to use a little tool to get the baffle material outside the inlet after the cowl is on. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308955#308955 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel drain valve
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2010
I thought about it. Maybe less chance of something catching on it and slightly less drag. But since the boss was sticking down 3/8" from the skin I think I'll just use the supplied one until it starts leaking. -------- Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08 Grayson, KY Bldr# 40983 Ord complete kit 8/24/09; DB Sch del 11/20/09 Emp 12/01/09-3/14/10 332 hrs Wings 3/14/10- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308968#308968 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Installation Pictures
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2010
Looks great. I got mine the same color...minus the chrome. I too can't say enough good things about Aerosport Power. Great people to work with. I should be cranking the engine in about 2 months. Can't wait to hear it. Eric Kallio Finishing windshield fairing and plenum. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308992#308992 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2010
From: THOMAS GESELE <tgesele(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Nosewheel Fairing Alignment
Stumbled onto an interesting observation. Discovered after adding all the wheel fairings, the -10 required right rudder at high cruise speeds. After damaging and removing the nosewheel fairing, I no longer needed to hold right rudder at any speed (true airspeed 2 knots slower than with the fairing at high speed cruise). Since nothing else on the plane has changed, I'm assuming the prop blast is pushing the nosewheel out of trail. Has anyone else had a similiar experience, have any suggestions on a way to slightly re-orient the nosewheel fairing to minimize the effect, or can come up with a different explination? Thanks, Tom Gesele - N629RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel Fairing Alignment
My Grumman (same type of nose gear setup) points off to the right ..... and yes, it looks funny .... but I doubt that's causing the right rudder problem. However, I can't explain why the removal of the wheel pant would 'fix' the problem. The wheel pant doesn't have any effect on the rigging of the Grumman whether it's there or not. the only reason I used the Grumman as an example is that I have lots of hours in it and I'm still building the -10. Linn THOMAS GESELE wrote: > > Stumbled onto an interesting observation. Discovered after adding all > the wheel fairings, the -10 required right rudder at high cruise > speeds. After damaging and removing the nosewheel fairing, I no longer > needed to hold right rudder at any speed (true airspeed 2 knots slower > than with the fairing at high speed cruise). Since nothing else on the > plane has changed, I'm assuming the prop blast is pushing the > nosewheel out of trail. Has anyone else had a similiar experience, > have any suggestions on a way to slightly re-orient the nosewheel > fairing to minimize the effect, or can come up with a different > explination? > > Thanks, > Tom Gesele - N629RV > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel Fairing Alignment
Date: Aug 16, 2010
Other than not needing the rudder in cruise are you experiencing a problem with the fairing? the wheel, a shimmy or anything? if not leave it alone. Call Vans and get their opinion as well. -------------------------------------------------- From: "THOMAS GESELE" <tgesele(at)optonline.net> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 9:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Nosewheel Fairing Alignment > > Stumbled onto an interesting observation. Discovered after adding all the > wheel fairings, the -10 required right rudder at high cruise speeds. After > damaging and removing the nosewheel fairing, I no longer needed to hold > right rudder at any speed (true airspeed 2 knots slower than with the > fairing at high speed cruise). Since nothing else on the plane has > changed, I'm assuming the prop blast is pushing the nosewheel out of > trail. Has anyone else had a similiar experience, have any suggestions on > a way to slightly re-orient the nosewheel fairing to minimize the effect, > or can come up with a different explination? > > Thanks, > Tom Gesele - N629RV > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel Fairing Alignment
Date: Aug 16, 2010
I have seen photo's of -10's in flight with the nosewheel cocked off to the side a bit. David Maib 40559 Flying On Aug 16, 2010, at 12:48 PM, THOMAS GESELE wrote: Stumbled onto an interesting observation. Discovered after adding all the wheel fairings, the -10 required right rudder at high cruise speeds. After damaging and removing the nosewheel fairing, I no longer needed to hold right rudder at any speed (true airspeed 2 knots slower than with the fairing at high speed cruise). Since nothing else on the plane has changed, I'm assuming the prop blast is pushing the nosewheel out of trail. Has anyone else had a similiar experience, have any suggestions on a way to slightly re-orient the nosewheel fairing to minimize the effect, or can come up with a different explination? Thanks, Tom Gesele - N629RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel pressure hose too long?
From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2010
Yeah, mine's too long too. I just let it flop around. Will probably tie it to something after I get more stuff installed around it. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309057#309057 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators
From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2010
I have a B&C in my RV-6 but went with the Plane Power for the 10. Plane Power was not around when I built the RV-6. Both are good, and I know personally the folks at SkyTec/Plane Power. They stand by their products, have had excellent experience, and are really nice people. The B&C stuff is very pricey. Until recently B&C had the only gear mounted standby alt but Plane Power is coming out with a nifty 20A unit. They had it at OSH and is a much better alternative to the 8A B&C standby alt. With 20A in standby an alternator failure becomes a real yawner. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309061#309061 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ELT antenna
From: "cjay" <cgfinney(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
[quote="cjhukill(at)cox.net"] The satellite triangulation was giving him a very accurate position of my ELT, even without the GPS! Chris Hukill > [b] Chris, The Doppler/triangulation processing for the modern 406 Mhz pulsed beacons are accurate to 2 parts per billion, giving a search area of 2 sqkm. A huge improvement over the 121.5 Mhz tone, however, if you want 100m accuracy you need the gps encoded feature. cjay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309075#309075 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Subject: Primer Question
From: Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin(at)gmail.com>
I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins to scuff them up before priming. Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for priming? Is sanding better than the chemical wash? Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? -- Vernon Franklin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
From: THOMAS GESELE <tgesele(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel Fairing Alignment
Thanks for the responses. I'm going to fabricate a tab and temporarily attach to the fairing. If this has any affect, I'll post pictures of the mod. Tom Gesele 629RV On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:54 PM, David Maib wrote: > > I have seen photo's of -10's in flight with the nosewheel cocked off > to the side a bit. > > David Maib > 40559 > Flying > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 12:48 PM, THOMAS GESELE wrote: > > > Stumbled onto an interesting observation. Discovered after adding all > the wheel fairings, the -10 required right rudder at high cruise > speeds. After damaging and removing the nosewheel fairing, I no longer > needed to hold right rudder at any speed (true airspeed 2 knots slower > than with the fairing at high speed cruise). Since nothing else on the > plane has changed, I'm assuming the prop blast is pushing the > nosewheel out of trail. Has anyone else had a similiar experience, > have any suggestions on a way to slightly re-orient the nosewheel > fairing to minimize the effect, or can come up with a different > explination? > > Thanks, > Tom Gesele - N629RV > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Primer Question
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Save the weight, don't prime the skins ;-) Dave Leikam ----- Original Message ----- From: Vernon Franklin To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 6:47 AM Subject: RV10-List: Primer Question I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins to scuff them up before priming. Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for priming? Is sanding better than the chemical wash? Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? -- Vernon Franklin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Primer Question
OMG!!! He said it!!!! The first shot's been fired. WW3 is sure to follow!! :-P Linn ...... slow morning ..... Dave Leikam wrote: > Save the weight, don't prime the skins ;-) > > Dave Leikam > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Vernon Franklin > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 17, 2010 6:47 AM > *Subject:* RV10-List: Primer Question > > I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so > far. Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I > have ended up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with > a Brillo sponge on top of a saw horse. I noticed another > builder's site the other day, and he appeared to just take a > sander to the inside of the skins to scuff them up before priming. > > Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for > priming? > Is sanding better than the chemical wash? > Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? > > -- > Vernon Franklin > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel Fairing Alignment
Date: Aug 17, 2010
You might also want to re-check the breakout force on your nosewheel. They tend to loosen up fairly quickly when you first start flying. I know there was some discussion on this forum a year ago (or longer) about that being a potential cause of the nosewheel cocking to one side during flight. David Maib 40559 flying On Aug 17, 2010, at 8:02 AM, THOMAS GESELE wrote: Thanks for the responses. I'm going to fabricate a tab and temporarily attach to the fairing. If this has any affect, I'll post pictures of the mod. Tom Gesele 629RV On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:54 PM, David Maib wrote: > > I have seen photo's of -10's in flight with the nosewheel cocked > off to the side a bit. > > David Maib > 40559 > Flying > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 12:48 PM, THOMAS GESELE wrote: > > > Stumbled onto an interesting observation. Discovered after adding > all the wheel fairings, the -10 required right rudder at high > cruise speeds. After damaging and removing the nosewheel fairing, I > no longer needed to hold right rudder at any speed (true airspeed 2 > knots slower than with the fairing at high speed cruise). Since > nothing else on the plane has changed, I'm assuming the prop blast > is pushing the nosewheel out of trail. Has anyone else had a > similiar experience, have any suggestions on a way to slightly re- > orient the nosewheel fairing to minimize the effect, or can come up > with a different explination? > > Thanks, > Tom Gesele - N629RV > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Subject: Re: Primer Question
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Lots of archives to review on topic. The one item you want to get rid of, is the brillo pad, if that is what you are using. It is of steel wool, which will induce corrosion in aluminum. Scotchbrite pads are what are used most commonly, with or without alumiprep. On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Vernon Franklin wrote: > I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. Since I > cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended up just washing > them with Alumiprep and Alodine with aBrillosponge on top of a saw horse. > I noticed another builder's site the other day, and he appeared to just > take a sander to the inside of the skins to scuff them up before priming. > Is there apreferredtechnique to preparing the large skins for priming? > Is sanding better than the chemical wash? > Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? > -- > Vernon Franklin > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Subject: Re: Primer Question
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
I use a vibrating sanders over the top of a scotchbrite pad. Works really well to scuff the surface. Actually sanding the surface might be a bit overkill. Then I rinse it with a solvent like ppg's dx-330. Then alodine and/or prime. Works fine. On Aug 17, 2010 6:53 AM, "Vernon Franklin" wrote: > I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. Since I > cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended up just washing > them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge on top of a saw horse. > I noticed another builder's site the other day, and he appeared to just > take a sander to the inside of the skins to scuff them up before priming. > > Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for priming? > Is sanding better than the chemical wash? > Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? > > -- > Vernon Franklin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Plane power Vs B&C Alternators
Date: Aug 17, 2010
B&C also has a gear mounted 20A standby. I installed it on my airplane a couple of years ago. B&C alternators, starters, and regulators may be a bit more expensive, but they are very high quality and their customer service is excellent. I recently changed out my B&C alternator for one from National Air Parts because I needed a bigger alternator. The price of a rebuilt 70A alternator from National is as high as a new one from other vendors. But, I am very impressed with the quality of this alternator and the warranty is as good as a new one. It looks and feels like a very heavy duty piece of equipment. It is also heavier than my old B&C. These are certified alternators and National sells them to Uncle Sam to use on UAV's. Customer service from Al Patron at National is also excellent. This alternator seems to put out it's rated amperage at idle RPM. I will report how it performs as time passes, but right now I am delighted with it. David Maib 40559 flying On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:05 PM, nukeflyboy wrote: I have a B&C in my RV-6 but went with the Plane Power for the 10. Plane Power was not around when I built the RV-6. Both are good, and I know personally the folks at SkyTec/Plane Power. They stand by their products, have had excellent experience, and are really nice people. The B&C stuff is very pricey. Until recently B&C had the only gear mounted standby alt but Plane Power is coming out with a nifty 20A unit. They had it at OSH and is a much better alternative to the 8A B&C standby alt. With 20A in standby an alternator failure becomes a real yawner. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309061#309061 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net>
Subject: Primer Question
Date: Aug 17, 2010
One thing I didn't know until I talked to an industrial painter on another topic was that you should not alodine and then Prime if you are using an etching primer (wash primer). If you alodine then use no primer or epoxy primer. If using wash primer ( self-etching) the skip the alodine totally and just clean before priming. I'm using a combo of methods depending on what part of the airframe I'm dealing with. I don't alodine unless I can immerse the part in the tank. Wiping on can't insure good coverage. Richard Bibb _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Franklin Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 6:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Primer Question I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins to scuff them up before priming. Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for priming? Is sanding better than the chemical wash? Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? -- Vernon Franklin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Re: Primer Question
I used a Scotchbrite pad before the alumiprep. I would think sanding would be too aggressive and might leave sandpaper residue behind. Dr Fred Vernon Franklin wrote: > I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. > Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended > up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge > on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other > day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins > to scuff them up before priming. > > Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for priming? > Is sanding better than the chemical wash? > Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? > > -- > Vernon Franklin > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Primer Question
I'm going to chime in here ..... The good Dr. is correct .... sanding can be aggressive ..... it just depends on the grit. The thin pure aluminum coating (the alclad part) is very thin ..... and going through it decreases the sheets natural ability to stay corrosion free. If you use an 'aluminum brightener' no matter what the brand, flush well with water, dry, and apply alodine with a fine grit pad .... like a green one, not red. Once you have applied a coat of alodine with the pad, use a rag soaked in alodine to keep the surface wet. Do not allow the alodine to dry. Once you've met the time restraints .... some solutions can be stronger than others and take less time .... again rinse with water and dry. That's just about all you can do on a large sheet. If it's a small piece, then submerge it in the alodine without doing the pad steps. As someone else stated, you gain nothing by alodine AND self-etching primer. One or the other, but the prep is the same. Keep in mind that the primer weighs more than the alodine. 'Nuff said. Linn Fred Williams, M.D. wrote: > > > I used a Scotchbrite pad before the alumiprep. I would think sanding > would be too aggressive and might leave sandpaper residue behind. > Dr Fred > > Vernon Franklin wrote: >> I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. >> Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended >> up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge >> on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other >> day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins >> to scuff them up before priming. >> Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for >> priming? Is sanding better than the chemical wash? >> Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? >> >> -- >> Vernon Franklin >> >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: S/S heater box
From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
I've notice a lot of promotion for the S/S box. If I hadn't already installed the Van's model, I would definitely spring for the fancy job. However, mine is already installed and sealed, so I am pondering if it would be worth the expense and effort to replace it vs the law of diminishing returns. I understand the science of varying melting points of aluminum vs SS, however, there is inherently a bunch of aluminum forward of the firewall, including the very rivets that hold the firewall together. What I am thinking right now is when everything is installed on the hot side of the firewall to coat it and the heater box with some type of fire suppressing coating which to me seems cheaper and more effective than just replacing the box itself. What am I missing? Comments or suggestions appreciated. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309123#309123 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Subject: Re: S/S heater box
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Mine were installed and sealed and that's when I decided I wanted the stainless version. It really wasn't that bad to pop them off, clean up the area and reseal the SS boxes. Glad I did it. Phil On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM, woxofswa wrote: > > I've notice a lot of promotion for the S/S box. If I hadn't already > installed the Van's model, I would definitely spring for the fancy job. > > However, mine is already installed and sealed, so I am pondering if it > would be worth the expense and effort to replace it vs the law of > diminishing returns. > > I understand the science of varying melting points of aluminum vs SS, > however, there is inherently a bunch of aluminum forward of the firewall, > including the very rivets that hold the firewall together. What I am > thinking right now is when everything is installed on the hot side of the > firewall to coat it and the heater box with some type of fire suppressing > coating which to me seems cheaper and more effective than just replacing the > box itself. What am I missing? > > Comments or suggestions appreciated. > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309123#309123 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: S/S heater box
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Myron; I took mine off for the SS, not hard to do. The issue would be resolved using some fire barrier cream at every opening in the firewall, If you can find a way to assure the vents are closed and sealed than leave it alone but the SS have a much better seal than I ever could get from the Vans ones.. There is a lip on them that deflects any forced air from slipping into the inlets. I mentioned before about the forced heat gun and then there was the shop vac suggestions of ways to test the air coming in when forced through a SCAT, do that with your vents if you can't get it to stop air from coming in than the SS from Plane innovations will give you that advantage. For me, being in So California I don't need any more hot air coming into the cabin in the summer so this was more important to me than fire protection. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: S/S heater box > > I've notice a lot of promotion for the S/S box. If I hadn't already > installed the Van's model, I would definitely spring for the fancy job. > > However, mine is already installed and sealed, so I am pondering if it > would be worth the expense and effort to replace it vs the law of > diminishing returns. > > I understand the science of varying melting points of aluminum vs SS, > however, there is inherently a bunch of aluminum forward of the firewall, > including the very rivets that hold the firewall together. What I am > thinking right now is when everything is installed on the hot side of the > firewall to coat it and the heater box with some type of fire suppressing > coating which to me seems cheaper and more effective than just replacing > the box itself. What am I missing? > > Comments or suggestions appreciated. > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309123#309123 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Primer Question
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Just watched 'From the Group Up' the TV series. On it they use an aggressive sanding for paint prep and to eliminate scratches and smooth the surface. >From what I am reading that sounds way to aggressive or are people comfortable with that amount of sanding. For those who haven't seen, they use a power sander 220 grist, 320 grit I think, followed by scotch bright. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Primer Question I'm going to chime in here ..... The good Dr. is correct .... sanding can be aggressive ..... it just depends on the grit. The thin pure aluminum coating (the alclad part) is very thin ..... and going through it decreases the sheets natural ability to stay corrosion free. If you use an 'aluminum brightener' no matter what the brand, flush well with water, dry, and apply alodine with a fine grit pad .... like a green one, not red. Once you have applied a coat of alodine with the pad, use a rag soaked in alodine to keep the surface wet. Do not allow the alodine to dry. Once you've met the time restraints .... some solutions can be stronger than others and take less time .... again rinse with water and dry. That's just about all you can do on a large sheet. If it's a small piece, then submerge it in the alodine without doing the pad steps. As someone else stated, you gain nothing by alodine AND self-etching primer. One or the other, but the prep is the same. Keep in mind that the primer weighs more than the alodine. 'Nuff said. Linn Fred Williams, M.D. wrote: > > > I used a Scotchbrite pad before the alumiprep. I would think sanding > would be too aggressive and might leave sandpaper residue behind. > Dr Fred > > Vernon Franklin wrote: >> I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. >> Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended >> up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge >> on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other >> day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins >> to scuff them up before priming. >> Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for >> priming? Is sanding better than the chemical wash? >> Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? >> >> -- >> Vernon Franklin >> >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom
From: "mouser" <mouser(at)mouser.org>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Are you upgrading? -------- RV-10 #40988 http://mouser.org/projects/rv-10/ KLAM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309149#309149 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Primer Question
Date: Aug 17, 2010
For the EAA members out there, Ron Alexander did a webinar on painting, he covers this topic pretty well. http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=83414708001 Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:46 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Primer Question > > Just watched 'From the Group Up' the TV series. On it they use an > aggressive > sanding for paint prep and to eliminate scratches and smooth the surface. >>From what I am reading that sounds way to aggressive or are people > comfortable with that amount of sanding. For those who haven't seen, they > use a power sander 220 grist, 320 grit I think, followed by scotch bright. > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:53 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Primer Question > > > I'm going to chime in here ..... The good Dr. is correct .... sanding > can be aggressive ..... it just depends on the grit. The thin pure > aluminum coating (the alclad part) is very thin ..... and going through > it decreases the sheets natural ability to stay corrosion free. If you > use an 'aluminum brightener' no matter what the brand, flush well with > water, dry, and apply alodine with a fine grit pad .... like a green > one, not red. Once you have applied a coat of alodine with the pad, use > a rag soaked in alodine to keep the surface wet. Do not allow the > alodine to dry. Once you've met the time restraints .... some solutions > can be stronger than others and take less time .... again rinse with > water and dry. That's just about all you can do on a large sheet. If > it's a small piece, then submerge it in the alodine without doing the > pad steps. As someone else stated, you gain nothing by alodine AND > self-etching primer. One or the other, but the prep is the same. Keep > in mind that the primer weighs more than the alodine. 'Nuff said. > > Linn > > Fred Williams, M.D. wrote: >> >> >> I used a Scotchbrite pad before the alumiprep. I would think sanding >> would be too aggressive and might leave sandpaper residue behind. >> Dr Fred >> >> Vernon Franklin wrote: >>> I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. >>> Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended >>> up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge >>> on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other >>> day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins >>> to scuff them up before priming. >>> Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for >>> priming? Is sanding better than the chemical wash? >>> Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? >>> >>> -- >>> Vernon Franklin >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom
From: "mouser" <mouser(at)mouser.org>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
I've been trying to decide whether to go with the 8000B, the 5000EX, or the 9000EX for my panel. I've got some time before that choice needs to be made. I'll be interested to read your comparison between your old and new audio panels when the time comes. :) -------- RV-10 #40988 http://mouser.org/projects/rv-10/ KLAM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309159#309159 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Primer Question
Well, I know that 1950s and 60s Cessnas had neither any scuffing or alodine, as you could read the labels on the skins when you stripped the paint of. As near as I could tell they were simply sprayed with zinc chromate and the finish acrylic enamel as they left the factory, with zero primer on the inside of the skins. Only 50 years later are they beginning to show some corrosion, except for those that lived in corrosive atmosphere near a coast. I don't know about other builders, but I certainly don't expect to have to worry in the 15-20 years I might be able to fly my creation if the medical holds. On 8/17/2010 9:46 AM, William Greenley wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "William Greenley" > > Just watched 'From the Group Up' the TV series. On it they use an aggressive > sanding for paint prep and to eliminate scratches and smooth the surface. > > From what I am reading that sounds way to aggressive or are people > comfortable with that amount of sanding. For those who haven't seen, they > use a power sander 220 grist, 320 grit I think, followed by scotch bright. > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:53 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Primer Question > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters > > I'm going to chime in here ..... The good Dr. is correct .... sanding > can be aggressive ..... it just depends on the grit. The thin pure > aluminum coating (the alclad part) is very thin ..... and going through > it decreases the sheets natural ability to stay corrosion free. If you > use an 'aluminum brightener' no matter what the brand, flush well with > water, dry, and apply alodine with a fine grit pad .... like a green > one, not red. Once you have applied a coat of alodine with the pad, use > a rag soaked in alodine to keep the surface wet. Do not allow the > alodine to dry. Once you've met the time restraints .... some solutions > can be stronger than others and take less time .... again rinse with > water and dry. That's just about all you can do on a large sheet. If > it's a small piece, then submerge it in the alodine without doing the > pad steps. As someone else stated, you gain nothing by alodine AND > self-etching primer. One or the other, but the prep is the same. Keep > in mind that the primer weighs more than the alodine. 'Nuff said. > > Linn > > Fred Williams, M.D. wrote: > >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." >> >> >> I used a Scotchbrite pad before the alumiprep. I would think sanding >> would be too aggressive and might leave sandpaper residue behind. >> Dr Fred >> >> Vernon Franklin wrote: >> >>> I have been using Alumiprep, Alodine, and AKZO on the parts so far. >>> Since I cannot soak the skins in anything large enough, I have ended >>> up just washing them with Alumiprep and Alodine with a Brillo sponge >>> on top of a saw horse. I noticed another builder's site the other >>> day, and he appeared to just take a sander to the inside of the skins >>> to scuff them up before priming. >>> Is there a preferred technique to preparing the large skins for >>> priming? Is sanding better than the chemical wash? >>> Does sanding cause structural harm to the skins? >>> >>> -- >>> Vernon Franklin >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
I flew behind an 8000 in my last airplane (182) and can attest that it is a fine audio panel. I might have been interested if I wasn't planning to attempt to build my own. OTOH, you're competing against PS's new 5000EX, which is less expensive (who needs Marker Beacons?). -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309172#309172 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McGann, Ron" <Ron.McGann(at)ausawd.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2010
Subject: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom
If I was to upgrade my GMA-340 to a PS system, what are the things I need to consider? Does the PS series fit a Garmin rack? Are the pinouts the same on both units? Or is there a serious amount of rewiring required? Pretty happy with the 340, just curious. Cheers Ron VH-XRM flying in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2010 8:12 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom I flew behind an 8000 in my last airplane (182) and can attest that it is a fine audio panel. I might have been interested if I wasn't planning to attempt to build my own. OTOH, you're competing against PS's new 5000EX, which is less expensive (who needs Marker Beacons?). -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309172#309172 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Prop Governors
Date: Aug 17, 2010
Now that Van's sell both MT and Hartzell prop governors, is there any reason to buy one over the other? Does anyone have any experience or know of somebody that has the Harrzell? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2010
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Governors
Bob, call a MAJOR propeller overhauler and ask them which governor they do the least maintenance on. then buy that governor. Deems Davis On 8/17/2010 5:51 PM, Bob Leffler wrote: > > Now that Van's sell both MT and Hartzell prop governors, is there any > reason to buy one over the other? > > Does anyone have any experience or know of somebody that has the Harrzell? > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: S/S heater box
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
It is the largest and most vulnerable opening in your firewall. Not to criticize Vans (their job is to get a kit out there at a reasonable price), but do you want to be your life on a flimsy aluminum valve. For those still building - the EXCHANGE cost is about $100. For me it is a no-brainer - replace with SS... -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309229#309229 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Door Lock
From: "eagerlee" <eagerlee(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
here's a slight twist on the same strategy. A block that is hinged to the release button so you can pivot it into or out of position and you won't lose it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309231#309231 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/stock_handle_door_locks_rv_10_6_166.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/stock_handle_door_locks_rv_10_5_200.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Door Lock
From: "eagerlee" <eagerlee(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
here's a slight twist on the same strategy. A block that is hinged to the release button so you can pivot it into or out of position and you won't lose it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309232#309232 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/stock_handle_door_locks_rv_10_6_166.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/stock_handle_door_locks_rv_10_5_200.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2010
In building my RV10, I decided to bury my VOR antenna (running my Garmin SL30) in the upper front area of the cabin top using a thin copper tape that Vans sells as an antenna. I had checked it out on the Fallon NV VOR some time back, and it drove the NAV functions ok, but due to my phase 1 flight restrictions, I could not do an ILS over populated areas. Anyway today I did the Reno NV ILS and I was sorry to find quite a few anomalies as well as a general lack of sensitivity. By the way, it was pretty cool when the controller asked me to keep my speed up for a trailing 737, that we could run down the ILS at 165 kts. At this point I do not think that I will mess with the Bob Archer thing. Looks like ugly or not that there are some cat whiskers in my RV10's future Now the real question. Put it on top of the Vertical Stab or under the tail cone? Any suggestions on reception or sensitivity appreciated -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309236#309236 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 2010
From: Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
FWIW, I used an Archer antenna on my -6A and my -10. I've had no problems using either for LOC or ILS approaches. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 1090 hrs RV-10 N31TD -- First Flight 20 Mar 2010 AirMike said the following on 8/18/2010 2:05 AM: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" > > In building my RV10, I decided to bury my VOR antenna (running my Garmin SL30) in the upper front area of the cabin top using a thin copper tape that Vans sells as an antenna. I had checked it out on the Fallon NV VOR some time back, and it drove the NAV functions ok, but due to my phase 1 flight restrictions, I could not do an ILS over populated areas. Anyway today I did the Reno NV ILS and I was sorry to find quite a few anomalies as well as a general lack of sensitivity. By the way, it was pretty cool when the controller asked me to keep my speed up for a trailing 737, that we could run down the ILS at 165 kts. > > At this point I do not think that I will mess with the Bob Archer thing. Looks like ugly or not that there are some cat whiskers in my RV10's future > > Now the real question. Put it on top of the Vertical Stab or under the tail cone? Any suggestions on reception or sensitivity appreciated > > -------- > OSH '10 or Bust > Q/B - finally done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309236#309236 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2010
Subject: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
"me too" I've got an Archer in each wingtip and have zero reception issues on any sort of VOR/LOC/GS tracking. With that said, they are apparently very sensitive to the installation, how wiring to other wingtip stuff is routed, etc. If you follow the install instructions to the letter you'll have great success otherwise... I've got one antenna feeding an SL-30 and the other feeding a GNS-430W. The Archer comm antenna is a different story - nobody reports great success and even Bob Archer himself will tell you that they don't work well. Bob RV-10 N442PM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 4:44 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: VOR Antenna Experiment - report FWIW, I used an Archer antenna on my -6A and my -10. I've had no problems using either for LOC or ILS approaches. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 1090 hrs RV-10 N31TD -- First Flight 20 Mar 2010 AirMike said the following on 8/18/2010 2:05 AM: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" > > In building my RV10, I decided to bury my VOR antenna (running my Garmin SL30) in the upper front area of the cabin top using a thin copper tape that Vans sells as an antenna. I had checked it out on the Fallon NV VOR some time back, and it drove the NAV functions ok, but due to my phase 1 flight restrictions, I could not do an ILS over populated areas. Anyway today I did the Reno NV ILS and I was sorry to find quite a few anomalies as well as a general lack of sensitivity. By the way, it was pretty cool when the controller asked me to keep my speed up for a trailing 737, that we could run down the ILS at 165 kts. > > At this point I do not think that I will mess with the Bob Archer thing. Looks like ugly or not that there are some cat whiskers in my RV10's future > > Now the real question. Put it on top of the Vertical Stab or under the tail cone? Any suggestions on reception or sensitivity appreciated > > -------- > OSH '10 or Bust > Q/B - finally done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309236#309236 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2010
The 8000B should slide right into the tray for the 340. You could check with Stein or whoever your avionics guy is, but I'm pretty sure, if you're already wired, this will work without any changes. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On Aug 17, 2010, at 6:18 PM, McGann, Ron wrote: > > If I was to upgrade my GMA-340 to a PS system, what are the things I need to consider? Does the PS series fit a Garmin rack? Are the pinouts the same on both units? Or is there a serious amount of rewiring required? > > Pretty happy with the 340, just curious. > > Cheers > Ron > VH-XRM flying in Oz > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner > Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2010 8:12 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom > > > I flew behind an 8000 in my last airplane (182) and can attest that it is a fine audio panel. I might have been interested if I wasn't planning to attempt to build my own. OTOH, you're competing against PS's new 5000EX, which is less expensive (who needs Marker Beacons?). > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309172#309172 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FS: PMA8000 Audio Panel / Intercom
From: "Nick Nafsinger" <nicknaf(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2010
Tim, What phone do you have? We've got a 9000EX in the 10 and it won't sync with my Iphone 3G. I called PS on it, and they are aware of the problem... Perhaps its fixed a new firmware version. Also, as far as headsets go... The new Bose will NOT do music over Bluetooth. :-( It syncs to the phone and makes calls... but no music. Zulu does both, and to think I thought bose would get something correct. Nick Houston -------- RV-10 40569 Flying! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309307#309307 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Aug 18, 2010
I'd guess the only localizer issue would be if you are, say, 10 miles out, and vectored onto the localizer with a 30 degree intercept that requires the wingtip antenna to look through the fuselage to "see" the localizer antenna. e.g., airport to your right if the antenna is in the left wing tip. Can anyone comment on this scenario? Real world, is it an issue? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309344#309344 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 18, 2010
I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses to my comments ( especially Tim L, Tim O, and Kelly). We asked Reno APP for vectors to the ILS. They essentially sent us in a teardrop pattern. Approaching from close to the airport we had some reception problems at 90 degrees off our rt wingtip - presumably the wingtip blanketing the signal. Then the N to So. approach is VERY long due to the Sierra Mtns at 8000 to 10000 ft to the west. Reno sits at 4200 ft. At 5-6 miles and on in (Loc & G/S) there was no problem. It was out a ways like Kelly said on the intercept and even after the intercept (10-12 miles) that the signal was erratic. Reno is a real acid test of these antennas. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309356#309356 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
This raises the question I keep wanting to ask of the G430W folks flying IFR - Are you still routinely and primarily flying precision approaches using the ILS or RNAV? At controlled airports, do they gdefault to the ILS or RNAV for vectored approaches? Can you freely use either when available? I haven't been flying in the system for a couple of years now and have never seen/touched a precision RNAV approach. Just wondering what reality is like out there now. Bill "really wanting to fly this thing" Watson AirMike wrote: > > I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses to my comments ( especially Tim L, Tim O, and Kelly). We asked Reno APP for vectors to the ILS. They essentially sent us in a teardrop pattern. Approaching from close to the airport we had some reception problems at 90 degrees off our rt wingtip - presumably the wingtip blanketing the signal. > > Then the N to So. approach is VERY long due to the Sierra Mtns at 8000 to 10000 ft to the west. Reno sits at 4200 ft. At 5-6 miles and on in (Loc & G/S) there was no problem. It was out a ways like Kelly said on the intercept and even after the intercept (10-12 miles) that the signal was erratic. Reno is a real acid test of these antennas. > > -------- > OSH '10 or Bust > Q/B - finally done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309356#309356 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Primer Question
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 19, 2010
Corrosion X -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309402#309402 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2010
i general fly rnav approaches with vectors. they work great. robert On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > > This raises the question I keep wanting to ask of the G430W folks flying IFR - Are you still routinely and primarily flying precision approaches using the ILS or RNAV? At controlled airports, do they gdefault to the ILS or RNAV for vectored approaches? Can you freely use either when available? > > I haven't been flying in the system for a couple of years now and have never seen/touched a precision RNAV approach. Just wondering what reality is like out there now. > > Bill "really wanting to fly this thing" Watson > > AirMike wrote: >> >> I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses to my comments ( especially Tim L, Tim O, and Kelly). We asked Reno APP for vectors to the ILS. They essentially sent us in a teardrop pattern. Approaching from close to the airport we had some reception problems at 90 degrees off our rt wingtip - presumably the wingtip blanketing the signal. >> >> Then the N to So. approach is VERY long due to the Sierra Mtns at 8000 to 10000 ft to the west. Reno sits at 4200 ft. At 5-6 miles and on in (Loc & G/S) there was no problem. It was out a ways like Kelly said on the intercept and even after the intercept (10-12 miles) that the signal was erratic. Reno is a real acid test of these antennas. >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309356#309356 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2010
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Primer Question
Corrosion X is expensive. Get Boeshield by the gallon and cut it with mineral spirits. Linn johngoodman wrote: > > Corrosion X > > -------- > #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309402#309402 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Aug 19, 2010
At most (all?) airports around here ATC will let you fly whatever approach you want, except for maybe opposite to the traffic direction. Even then they often let you do it, asking you to break off and circle early (if vfr) for opposing traffic reasons. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309421#309421 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2010
Subject: Re: Prop Governors
From: Richard Martin <martinaerodrome(at)gmail.com>
SGFydHplbGwgcHJvZHVjdHMgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdCBldmVyeSByZXBhaXIgc3RhdGlvbiBp biB0aGUgVVMuICBEb2VzIE1UCmhhdmUgdGhlIHNhbWUgbWFya2V0IHBlbmV0cmF0aW9uPwpEaWNr IE1hcnRpbgoKT24gVHVlLCBBdWcgMTcsIDIwMTAgYXQgNzo1MSBQTSwgQm9iIExlZmZsZXIgPHJ2 QHRoZWxlZmZsZXJzLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+ICBOb3cgdGhhdCBWYW6ScyBzZWxsIGJvdGggTVQg YW5kIEhhcnR6ZWxsIHByb3AgZ292ZXJub3JzLCAgaXMgdGhlcmUgYW55Cj4gcmVhc29uIHRvIGJ1 eSBvbmUgb3ZlciB0aGUgb3RoZXI/Cj4KPgo+Cj4gRG9lcyBhbnlvbmUgaGF2ZSBhbnkgZXhwZXJp ZW5jZSBvciBrbm93IG9mIHNvbWVib2R5IHRoYXQgaGFzIHRoZSBIYXJyemVsbD8KPgo+ICoKPgo+ IF8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09Cj4gXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFJWMTAtTGlzdCBFbWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtCj4gXy09 IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQo+IF8t PSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uLAo+ IF8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAmIERvd25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBCcm93c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwK PiBfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOgo+IF8tPQo+IF8tPSAgIC0tPiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1JWMTAtTGlzdAo+IF8tPQo+IF8tPT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 Cj4gXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtCj4gXy09IFNhbWUg Z3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhCj4gXy09Cj4g Xy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQo+IF8tPQo+IF8tPT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj4gXy09 ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQo+IF8tPSAgVGhhbmsg eW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhCj4gXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLgo+IF8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3 Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uCj4gXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KPiAqCj4KPgo ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2010
They always give me whichever I ask for. I usually do the rnav. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org www.mavericklsa.com C: 352-427-0285 O: 352-465-4545 F: 815-377-3694 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > > This raises the question I keep wanting to ask of the G430W folks flying IFR - Are you still routinely and primarily flying precision approaches using the ILS or RNAV? At controlled airports, do they gdefault to the ILS or RNAV for vectored approaches? Can you freely use either when available? > > I haven't been flying in the system for a couple of years now and have never seen/touched a precision RNAV approach. Just wondering what reality is like out there now. > > Bill "really wanting to fly this thing" Watson > > AirMike wrote: >> >> I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses to my comments ( especially Tim L, Tim O, and Kelly). We asked Reno APP for vectors to the ILS. They essentially sent us in a teardrop pattern. Approaching from close to the airport we had some reception problems at 90 degrees off our rt wingtip - presumably the wingtip blanketing the signal. >> >> Then the N to So. approach is VERY long due to the Sierra Mtns at 8000 to 10000 ft to the west. Reno sits at 4200 ft. At 5-6 miles and on in (Loc & G/S) there was no problem. It was out a ways like Kelly said on the intercept and even after the intercept (10-12 miles) that the signal was erratic. Reno is a real acid test of these antennas. >> >> -------- >> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309356#309356 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2010
Subject: Re: Prop Governors
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Hartzells in general have some expensive ADs on them, and have restrictions on rpm ranges on their aluminum prop for many engine/prop combinations. I don't believe MT has either, or if you really want to spend big money, the composite Hartzell doesn't have any problems that have shown up, so far, except for price. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Richard Martin wrote: > Hartzell products are available at every repair station in the US. Does MT > have the same market penetration? > Dick Martin > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Bob Leffler wrote: >> >> Now that Vans sell both MT and Hartzell prop governors, is there any >> reason to buy one over the other? >> >> >> >> Does anyone have any experience or know of somebody that has the Harrzell? >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2010
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
When I was flying non-precision RNAV approaches, it was still 'awkward' to get properly vectored or cleared for them. They controllers tended to not be familiar with the T-style approaches at non-controlled airports. The overlays worked fine. Never even tried to do an RNAV non-precision at a controlled AP - just took vectors for the ILS. Do you ever do the ILS for something other than proficiency? Jesse Saint wrote: > > They always give me whichever I ask for. I usually do the rnav. > > Jesse Saint > I-TEC, Inc. > jesse(at)itecusa.org > www.itecusa.org > www.mavericklsa.com > C: 352-427-0285 > O: 352-465-4545 > F: 815-377-3694 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > > >> >> This raises the question I keep wanting to ask of the G430W folks flying IFR - Are you still routinely and primarily flying precision approaches using the ILS or RNAV? At controlled airports, do they gdefault to the ILS or RNAV for vectored approaches? Can you freely use either when available? >> >> I haven't been flying in the system for a couple of years now and have never seen/touched a precision RNAV approach. Just wondering what reality is like out there now. >> >> Bill "really wanting to fly this thing" Watson >> >> AirMike wrote: >> >>> >>> I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses to my comments ( especially Tim L, Tim O, and Kelly). We asked Reno APP for vectors to the ILS. They essentially sent us in a teardrop pattern. Approaching from close to the airport we had some reception problems at 90 degrees off our rt wingtip - presumably the wingtip blanketing the signal. >>> >>> Then the N to So. approach is VERY long due to the Sierra Mtns at 8000 to 10000 ft to the west. Reno sits at 4200 ft. At 5-6 miles and on in (Loc & G/S) there was no problem. It was out a ways like Kelly said on the intercept and even after the intercept (10-12 miles) that the signal was erratic. Reno is a real acid test of these antennas. >>> >>> -------- >>> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309356#309356 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Governors
Date: Aug 19, 2010
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the PCU5000 and the "X" model as an option. I know that wasn't the question but wanted to raise that there is a 3rd option out there. Can be bought for about the same price as the MT. I have it but have not tested/flown with it yet, Deems might be able to give his thoughts. VAF forums had great feedback when I was researching this. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:07 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Prop Governors > > Hartzells in general have some expensive ADs on them, and have > restrictions on rpm ranges on their aluminum prop for many engine/prop > combinations. I don't believe MT has either, or if you really want to > spend big money, the composite Hartzell doesn't have any problems that > have shown up, so far, except for price. > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Richard Martin > wrote: >> Hartzell products are available at every repair station in the US. Does >> MT >> have the same market penetration? >> Dick Martin >> >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Bob Leffler wrote: >>> >>> Now that Vans sell both MT and Hartzell prop governors, is there any >>> reason to buy one over the other? >>> >>> >>> >>> Does anyone have any experience or know of somebody that has the >>> Harrzell? >>> >>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2010
Subject: Re: Prop Governors
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
That will teach me to read the subject line more carefully. I was referring to props, not governors. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Pascal wrote: > > I'm surprised no one has mentioned the PCU5000 and the "X" model as an > option. I know that wasn't the question but wanted to raise that there is a > 3rd option out there. > Can be bought for about the same price as the MT. I have it but have not > tested/flown with it yet, Deems might be able to give his thoughts. VAF > forums had great feedback when I was researching this. > Pascal > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:07 PM > To: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Prop Governors > >> >> Hartzells in general have some expensive ADs on them, and have >> restrictions on rpm ranges on their aluminum prop for many engine/prop >> combinations. I don't believe MT has either, or if you really want to >> spend big money, the composite Hartzell doesn't have any problems that >> have shown up, so far, except for price. >> >> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Richard Martin >> wrote: >>> >>> Hartzell products are available at every repair station in the US. Does >>> MT >>> have the same market penetration? >>> Dick Martin >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Bob Leffler wrote: >>>> >>>> Now that Vans sell both MT and Hartzell prop governors, is there any >>>> reason to buy one over the other? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any experience or know of somebody that has the >>>> Harrzell? >>>> >>>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2010
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Governors
When I was shopping for a governor, I contacted American Propeller in Ca. They had overhauled 3 props for me and are a well known major shop on the west coast. I asked them for a recommendation and they recommended the PCU5000 because, A. it outputs 20-30% higher oil pressure than the others, and B. as of my call (2007-2008) they had seen NO service,maintenance issues. I have it installed, and haven't had any issues in its limited 170 hours life. Deems On 8/19/2010 2:43 PM, Pascal wrote: > > I'm surprised no one has mentioned the PCU5000 and the "X" model as > an option. I know that wasn't the question but wanted to raise that > there is a 3rd option out there. > Can be bought for about the same price as the MT. I have it but have > not tested/flown with it yet, Deems might be able to give his > thoughts. VAF forums had great feedback when I was researching this. > Pascal > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:07 PM > To: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Prop Governors > >> >> Hartzells in general have some expensive ADs on them, and have >> restrictions on rpm ranges on their aluminum prop for many engine/prop >> combinations. I don't believe MT has either, or if you really want to >> spend big money, the composite Hartzell doesn't have any problems that >> have shown up, so far, except for price. >> >> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Richard Martin >> wrote: >>> Hartzell products are available at every repair station in the US. >>> Does MT >>> have the same market penetration? >>> Dick Martin >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Bob Leffler >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Now that Vans sell both MT and Hartzell prop governors, is there any >>>> reason to buy one over the other? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any experience or know of somebody that has the >>>> Harrzell? >>>> >>>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2010
Actually, now that you mention it, I do remember one time that I was flying a non-precision GPS approach and when I asked for vectors to final, the controller said she didn't have the final approach fix on her map. That pretty much blew me away, but she cleared me to final anyway. I just had to get there by myself. That was actual conditions, and my first flight in actual conditions, but it all worked out well. I will do an ILS if there is no precision RNAV/GPS and the conditions may require it, although I realize there may be very few of those left, and for proficiency. Very few of my flights actually require an approach, but I often ask for an approach just to keep current and proficient. I don't fly as much as I'd like to, which is likely the case for most of us. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On Aug 19, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: > > When I was flying non-precision RNAV approaches, it was still 'awkward' to get properly vectored or cleared for them. They controllers tended to not be familiar with the T-style approaches at non-controlled airports. The overlays worked fine. Never even tried to do an RNAV non-precision at a controlled AP - just took vectors for the ILS. > > Do you ever do the ILS for something other than proficiency? > > Jesse Saint wrote: >> >> They always give me whichever I ask for. I usually do the rnav. >> >> Jesse Saint >> I-TEC, Inc. >> jesse(at)itecusa.org >> www.itecusa.org >> www.mavericklsa.com >> C: 352-427-0285 >> O: 352-465-4545 >> F: 815-377-3694 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: >> >> >>> >>> This raises the question I keep wanting to ask of the G430W folks flying IFR - Are you still routinely and primarily flying precision approaches using the ILS or RNAV? At controlled airports, do they gdefault to the ILS or RNAV for vectored approaches? Can you freely use either when available? >>> >>> I haven't been flying in the system for a couple of years now and have never seen/touched a precision RNAV approach. Just wondering what reality is like out there now. >>> >>> Bill "really wanting to fly this thing" Watson >>> >>> AirMike wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses to my comments ( especially Tim L, Tim O, and Kelly). We asked Reno APP for vectors to the ILS. They essentially sent us in a teardrop pattern. Approaching from close to the airport we had some reception problems at 90 degrees off our rt wingtip - presumably the wingtip blanketing the signal. >>>> >>>> Then the N to So. approach is VERY long due to the Sierra Mtns at 8000 to 10000 ft to the west. Reno sits at 4200 ft. At 5-6 miles and on in (Loc & G/S) there was no problem. It was out a ways like Kelly said on the intercept and even after the intercept (10-12 miles) that the signal was erratic. Reno is a real acid test of these antennas. >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309356#309356 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report
Date: Aug 20, 2010
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com
My home airport defaults to ILS for vectors.The waas approaches are very cool but that extra 50 feet often makes a differnce in our tule fog.I wou d be curious to here the CA central coast guys chime in.-Jim loving waas but still defaulting to ILS when possible PS they will give you waas when you ask for it but if they {norcal} is bus y at all you will get delaying vectors or a hold if weather is IMC..Just my 2 cents -----Original Message----- From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:50 am Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: VOR Antenna Experiment - report Actually, now that you mention it, I do remember one time that I was flyin g a on-precision GPS approach and when I asked for vectors to final, the contr oller aid she didn't have the final approach fix on her map. That pretty much blew e away, but she cleared me to final anyway. I just had to get there by my self. hat was actual conditions, and my first flight in actual conditions, but it all orked out well. I will do an ILS if there is no precision RNAV/GPS and the conditions may equire it, although I realize there may be very few of those left, and for roficiency. Very few of my flights actually require an approach, but I of ten sk for an approach just to keep current and proficient. I don't fly as mu ch as 'd like to, which is likely the case for most of us. Jesse Saint aint Aviation, Inc. esse(at)saintaviation.com : 352-427-0285 : 815-377-3694 On Aug 19, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote: .rr.com> When I was flying non-precision RNAV approaches, it was still 'awkward' to get roperly vectored or cleared for them. They controllers tended to not be amiliar with the T-style approaches at non-controlled airports. The overl ays orked fine. Never even tried to do an RNAV non-precision at a controlled AP - ust took vectors for the ILS. Do you ever do the ILS for something other than proficiency? Jesse Saint wrote: > > They always give me whichever I ask for. I usually do the rnav. > > Jesse Saint > I-TEC, Inc. > jesse(at)itecusa.org > www.itecusa.org > www.mavericklsa.com > C: 352-427-0285 > O: 352-465-4545 > F: 815-377-3694 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson rote: > > MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> >> >> This raises the question I keep wanting to ask of the G430W folks flyin g IFR Are you still routinely and primarily flying precision approaches using the LS or RNAV? At controlled airports, do they gdefault to the ILS or RNAV for ectored approaches? Can you freely use either when available? >> >> I haven't been flying in the system for a couple of years now and have never een/touched a precision RNAV approach. Just wondering what reality is lik e out here now. >> >> Bill "really wanting to fly this thing" Watson >> >> AirMike wrote: >> >>> >>> I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses to my comments ( especial ly im L, Tim O, and Kelly). We asked Reno APP for vectors to the ILS. They ssentially sent us in a teardrop pattern. Approaching from close to the ai rport e had some reception problems at 90 degrees off our rt wingtip - presumabl y the ingtip blanketing the signal. >>> >>> Then the N to So. approach is VERY long due to the Sierra Mtns at 8000 to 0000 ft to the west. Reno sits at 4200 ft. At 5-6 miles and on in (Loc & G/S) here was no problem. It was out a ways like Kelly said on the intercept an d ven after the intercept (10-12 miles) that the signal was erratic. Reno is a eal acid test of these antennas. >>> >>> -------- >>> OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309356#309356 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ======================== =========== -= - The RV10-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nose fork lube
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2010
I have been reviewing the plans regarding the nose wheel assembly. On the fork we install a zerk/grease fitting on the front, and plug the top, haven't found reference to servicing. I am going to use the same Aeroshell lube as the wheel bearings unless anyone has found a better solution. Eric Kallio Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309547#309547 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 21, 2010
I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any solutions? GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. Alan N668G ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2010
Subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the transducer living in the recommended and what should be it=92s ideal locati on in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 GPH swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turned on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFIS data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS fue l totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. The fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel pressur e warnings especially on climb out. As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard fligh t and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs. wild swings of well over 1 GPH. Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
From: John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2010
My experience with the GAMI's are a limited range of corrective sizes. As a graduate of Airflow Performance's school in South Carolina, I have a paro chial bias as to their techniques and the diverse range of injector ports f or the Lycoming 540 product line. It goes as afar as believing they are ev en superior to Brand A used by that fine Canadian rebuilder of such deep re spect with this group. I feel GAMI is an excellent choice for aircraft with Continental propulsion products. Beech, Cirrus, and Oh forbid - Lancair International (plastic p lanes). I will get off the soapbox cause I use, repair and maintain Lycomings in RV s and on the M-14Ps with single point fuel bodies. Bendix/Precision is fin e for its purpose. Oh yeh, Fuel Injection for the Rotax found in RV-12s too. Did the Rotax tr aining in Canada. John Cox From: Alan Mekler Sent: Sat 8/21/2010 9:04 AM Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the f uel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest in jector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders Befor e gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any solutions? GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. Alan N668G ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2010
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Most likely cause is the location of your fuel flow sending unit, as Robin just noted. Fuel flow that peaks 1 gph different between cylinders would not run worth a damn. I am assuming that is not the case because you didn't mention any issues with how the engine ran. So I seriously question the validity of your fuel flow data. Lycomings generally are within 0.6 gph with stock injectors. But GAMI cannot correct for inaccurate FF readings relative to peak egts. On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: > I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the > fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest > injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders > Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any > solutions? > > GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 hours > on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. > > Alan > > N668G > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2010
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
One other possible cause is ignition, IF you have the stock Slick magnetos. Slick magnetos generally work okay, but some have wildly inaccurate firing between cylinders. I know of one turbocharged TIO-540 that was balanced perfectly and ran fine LOP until one of the mags was overhauled. After that it simply would not run LOP, was too rough. On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > Most likely cause is the location of your fuel flow sending unit, as > Robin just noted. Fuel flow that peaks 1 gph different between > cylinders would not run worth a damn. I am assuming that is not the > case because you didn't mention any issues with how the engine ran. > So I seriously question the validity of your fuel flow data. Lycomings > generally are within 0.6 gph with stock injectors. But GAMI cannot > correct for inaccurate FF readings relative to peak egts. > > On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the >> fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest >> injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders >> Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any >> solutions? >> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 hours >> on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. >> >> Alan >> >> N668G >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2010
From: Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the lines fro m the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the right ones? The ot her thing have you had any problems with your EGT system. Could your EGT pr obes be bad? Peaking or not peaking where they should? Just a few thoughts Patrick Thyssen --- On Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler wrote: From: Alan Mekler <amekler(at)metrocast.net> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI have been trying the GAMI injectors( o n the 4th=0Aset now)- but found the fuel flow on -the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder=0A#5 has the richest injector and it still peaks a gall on or more before the=0Aother cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. H as any one had this problem?=0AAny solutions? =0A=0AGAMI does not why the f uel is so unbalanced in this engine.=0AI have 95 hours on the engine and al l compressions are good. No intake leaks. =0A=0AAlan =0A=0AN668G =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Aug 21, 2010
I second the last post. Do easy things first. Do the "coke bottle test" to be sure the "richest injector" cylinder really does get more gas than the others. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309674#309674 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm34077(at)cox.net>
Subject: Egt probes (GRT)
Date: Aug 21, 2010
Another probe failed this morning. That makes 5 failures in 310 hours TTSN. This cylinder has not failed earlier so it was probably the lower quality probe. I will swap it out next week with an Electronics International to determine whether they are a better solution. They claim that the probe will last 2000 hours. My EGTS are operated usually between 1200-1420 F. For brief moments during leaning, some may range from 1420-1450 but are immediately brought under 1420 with mixture control. My usual cruise provides EGT range from 1375-1420. Yet probes have failed five times: cylinders 1(once), 2(twice), 6 (once) and now 3. Four failures occurred between 200-300 hours TTSN. I am installing an EI P-110; I had EI engine instrumentation for my Glastar and in 530 hours had no failures of either EGT or CHT probes. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 21, 2010
Patrick, Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3rd set) I'm down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. Alan 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 other method cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT system. Could your EGT probes be bad? Peaking or not peaking where they should? Just a few thoughts Patrick Thyssen --- On Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler wrote: From: Alan Mekler <amekler(at)metrocast.net> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any solutions? GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. Alan N668G ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2010
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Egt probes (GRT)
I don't recall the exact hours in service, but have had no failures on the fast response EI EGT probes on my 200hp Mooney running cruise EGTs in the 1350-1500 range, mounted exactly 1.5" from the cylinder flange of exhaust stack. Installed them several years ago. Only failures have been a couple leads/connections from the probes, easily fixed with new connector and crimper. On 8/21/2010 3:34 PM, DLM wrote: > Another probe failed this morning. That makes 5 failures in 310 hours > TTSN. This cylinder has not failed earlier so it was probably the > lower quality probe. I will swap it out next week with an Electronics > International to determine whether they are a better solution. They > claim that the probe will last 2000 hours. My EGTS are operated > usually between 1200-1420 F. For brief moments during leaning, some > may range from 1420-1450 but are immediately brought under 1420 with > mixture control. My usual cruise provides EGT range from 1375-1420. > Yet probes have failed five times: cylinders 1(once), 2(twice), 6 > (once) and now 3. Four failures occurred between 200-300 hours TTSN. I > am installing an EI P-110; I had EI engine instrumentation for my > Glastar and in 530 hours had no failures of either EGT or CHT probes. > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2010
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer to the rest. On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: > > Patrick, > > Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l > than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) Im > down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they > make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. > > Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. > > Alan > > 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr > > 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 > > 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 > > 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 > > 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 > > 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 > > 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 > > other method > > cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 > > cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 > > cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 > > cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 > > cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 > > cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick > Thyssen > *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the > lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the > right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT > system. Could your EGT probes be bad? > Peaking or not peaking where they should? > Just a few thoughts > Patrick Thyssen > > --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler //* wrote: > > > From: Alan Mekler <amekler(at)metrocast.net> > Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM > > I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found > the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the > richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other > cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this > problem? Any solutions? > > GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 > hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. > > Alan > > N668G > > > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 21, 2010
Patrick, I agree. I'll be talking to GAMI on Monday. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer to the rest. On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: > > Patrick, > > Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l > than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm > down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they > make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. > > Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. > > Alan > > 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr > > 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 > > 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 > > 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 > > 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 > > 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 > > 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 > > other method > > cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 > > cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 > > cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 > > cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 > > cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 > > cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick > Thyssen > *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the > lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the > right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT > system. Could your EGT probes be bad? > Peaking or not peaking where they should? > Just a few thoughts > Patrick Thyssen > > --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler //* wrote: > > > From: Alan Mekler <amekler(at)metrocast.net> > Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM > > I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found > the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the > richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other > cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this > problem? Any solutions? > > GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 > hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. > > Alan > > N668G > > > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2010
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Robin, I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have? I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position. Thanks, Phil On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Robin Marks wrote : > Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the > transducer living in the recommended and what should be it=92s ideal loca tion > in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 G PH > swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turn ed > on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel > burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFI S > data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS f uel > totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. T he > fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel press ure > warnings especially on climb out. > > As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of > relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector > throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification > while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard fli ght > and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs . > wild swings of well over 1 GPH. > > > Robin > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Miniumum fuel comfort zone
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 21, 2010
In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money. Since a big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd like any input on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all keep a comfortable safety zone. I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the round-the-poles flight - ok just kidding....... -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 22, 2010
My fuel flow stays very steady. Usually doesn't move more than 0.1 gallons/hr after taking about 30 seconds to settele down. Engine runs fine. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:40 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors Most likely cause is the location of your fuel flow sending unit, as Robin just noted. Fuel flow that peaks 1 gph different between cylinders would not run worth a damn. I am assuming that is not the case because you didn't mention any issues with how the engine ran. So I seriously question the validity of your fuel flow data. Lycomings generally are within 0.6 gph with stock injectors. But GAMI cannot correct for inaccurate FF readings relative to peak egts. On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: > I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the > fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest > injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders > Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any > solutions? > > GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 hours > on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. > > Alan > > N668G > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 22, 2010
Kelly, I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus) Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer to the rest. On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: > > Patrick, > > Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l > than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm > down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they > make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. > > Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. > > Alan > > 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr > > 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 > > 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 > > 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 > > 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 > > 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 > > 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 > > other method > > cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 > > cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 > > cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 > > cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 > > cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 > > cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick > Thyssen > *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the > lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the > right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT > system. Could your EGT probes be bad? > Peaking or not peaking where they should? > Just a few thoughts > Patrick Thyssen > > --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler //* wrote: > > > From: Alan Mekler <amekler(at)metrocast.net> > Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM > > I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found > the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the > richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other > cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this > problem? Any solutions? > > GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 > hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. > > Alan > > N668G > > > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 22, 2010
Flo Scan tech support told me "Do not install the sensor between two fuel pumps or erratic and unreliable readings may occour." Before the pumps and even the valve is best they said, but after the pumps would be fine. Just leave several inches of straight or gentley curved hose before and after the sensor. However this was in reference to marine applications as they no longer support aviation applications. Dave Leikam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:18 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > My fuel flow stays very steady. Usually doesn't move more than 0.1 > gallons/hr after taking about 30 seconds to settele down. Engine runs > fine. > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:40 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > > Most likely cause is the location of your fuel flow sending unit, as > Robin just noted. Fuel flow that peaks 1 gph different between > cylinders would not run worth a damn. I am assuming that is not the > case because you didn't mention any issues with how the engine ran. > So I seriously question the validity of your fuel flow data. Lycomings > generally are within 0.6 gph with stock injectors. But GAMI cannot > correct for inaccurate FF readings relative to peak egts. > > On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Alan Mekler > wrote: >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the >> fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest >> injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders >> Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any >> solutions? >> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 > hours >> on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. >> >> Alan >> >> N668G >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2010
From: Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone
Mike, as a new pilot, with a new airplane, one of the first things I though t I should do was run one tank completely out of fuel (while circling the a irport).- I did not want to second guess the tank construction (quickbuil d).--I also wanted a little confidence increase that the engine would f ire right back up after switching tanks.- Of course it did, and after arr iving on the ground I was able to drain enough fuel out of the exhausted ta nk to kill 2 weeds on the taxiway (between 2 to 4 oz).- Then to verify, I fueled up, and it took the entire 30 gallons. (plus a little) - As I thi nk has been reported in a prior post, usable fuel is about 29.8 gallons.- So after the test, on every cross country, I run right down to 29 gallons on-both tank.......... just kidding! But keep in mind, with a lot of the older planes, they only have a mickey m ouse fuel gage... where as we have 2 completely independent indicators (act ually 3).- Although I suppose-all-could -fail or be incorrect at th e same time, it's doubtful. Don McDonald --- On Sat, 8/21/10, AirMike wrote: From: AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> Subject: RV10-List: Miniumum fuel comfort zone Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:37 PM In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money. Since a big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd l ike any input on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all ke ep a comfortable safety zone. I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the round -the-poles flight - ok just kidding....... -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2010
I go red alarm at 7 gallons on my efis per tank. I have tested both tanks in flight and all but 1 cup of fuel is useable....so in theory, 1 gallon remaining would be ok. But I would never fly it that far down unless I have another tank ready. If you aren't in coordinated flight or have to slip or crab on landing, you may need more than that 1 cup remaining. Also, I tested in level flight. My float level drops on descent slightly. 1 cup may not be enough on final. I think the least fuel I've ever landed with is 10 or 12 gallons total. I'm conservative/chicken that way. Tim On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:37 AM, "AirMike" wrote: > > In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money. Since a big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd like any input on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all keep a comfortable safety zone. > > I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the round-the-poles flight - ok just kidding....... > > -------- > OSH '10 or Bust > Q/B - finally done > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 kit 95% complete- FOR SALE
From: "Phil White" <philwhite9(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2010
Job loss forces sale of my RV-10 project Airframe complete except pants + leg fairings FlightLine Interior upholstery-front & rear + headliner Panel mostly complete with: GRT Sport 8.4" screen- int GPS iCom A-210 comm KT-97A xpdr GPS396 in Gizmos dock Alt, A/S, Lift Reserve ind. 4 place stereo intercom Map box, defrost fans, 2 AGM batteries $66K+ invested. Make an offer. Mazda 20B engine available. Phil 630-985-1234 philwhite9 at aol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309775#309775 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_90percent_small_104.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/plane_assbd_small_461.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2010
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for each cylinder................................................................................. Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle. Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders. On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler" > > Kelly, > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus) > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen > > Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer > to the rest. > > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: >> Patrick, >> >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. >> >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. >> >> Alan >> >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr >> >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 >> >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 >> >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 >> >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 >> >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 >> >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 >> >> other method >> >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 >> >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 >> >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 >> >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick >> Thyssen >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad? >> Peaking or not peaking where they should? >> Just a few thoughts >> Patrick Thyssen >> >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler //* wrote: >> >> >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler(at)metrocast.net> >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM >> >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this >> problem? Any solutions? >> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. >> >> Alan >> >> N668G >> >> >> >> * * >> * * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> ** >> ** >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> * * >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2010
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
The problem with the tunnel location puts the sensor between the electric pump and the engine driven pump. The sensor needs to be before the pump, or after the engine driven pump. On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Robin Marks wrote: > The instruction: . Just leave several inches of straight or gently curved > hose before and after the sensor made the tunnel an ideal place to install > the FF Transducer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2010
Subject: Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone
From: James McGrew <jsmcgrew(at)alum.mit.edu>
Before my first flight I disconnected the fuel line at the mechanical fuel pump and put the fuel line in a gas can. I ran the electric fuel pump and pumped both tanks dry (I did this to calibrate my fuel flow transducer). After doing that I was able to drain 5 full strainers out of one tank and 9 strainers out of the other. So for my plane almost all 30 gallons in each tank is useable. I have (intentionally) run a tank dry in flight and confirmed this result for my plane. However, as a rule, I don't like to see less than 5 gallons in each tank. I always like having the option of switching tanks in the event something plugs the line in use. -Jim N312JE On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I go red alarm at 7 gallons on my efis per tank. I have tested both tanks > in flight and all but 1 cup of fuel is useable....so in theory, 1 gallon > remaining would be ok. But I would never fly it that far down unless I have > another tank ready. If you aren't in coordinated flight or have to slip or > crab on landing, you may need more than that 1 cup remaining. Also, I > tested in level flight. My float level drops on descent slightly. 1 cup may > not be enough on final. I think the least fuel I've ever landed with is 10 > or 12 gallons total. I'm conservative/chicken that way. > Tim > > > On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:37 AM, "AirMike" wrote: > > > > > In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to > be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very > accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money. > Since a big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd > like any input on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all > keep a comfortable safety zone. > > > > I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the > round-the-poles flight - ok just kidding....... > > > > -------- > > OSH '10 or Bust > > Q/B - finally done > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DLM" <dlm34077(at)cox.net>
Subject: Trutrak Digiflite II VSGV
Date: Aug 22, 2010
After the upgrade to fix the fading display (V2.36?) , The AP wants to turn hard right or left when turned on. It is supposed to synchronize to heading and altitude. Using the gyro set function will occasionally fix the problem but it recurs on the next flight. Anyone else have these symptoms. Seems to me to be a controller failure of the internal solid "level" gyro. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2010
From: Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT- THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH INJ ECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW.- HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe swap a few probes and see what you get. Patrick Thyssen --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen wrote: From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for each cylinder................................................................... .............. Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle. Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders. On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: > -->- RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler" > > Kelly, > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus) > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > -->- RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen > >- - Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer > to the rest. > > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: >> Patrick, >> >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. >> >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. >> >> Alan >> >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr >> >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 >> >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 >> >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 >> >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 >> >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 >> >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 >> >> other method >> >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 >> >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 >> >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 >> >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick >> Thyssen >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad? >> Peaking or not peaking where they should? >> Just a few thoughts >> Patrick Thyssen >> >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler //* wrote: >> >> >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler(at)metrocast.net> >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM >> >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this >> problem? Any solutions? >> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. >> >> Alan >> >> N668G >> >> >> >> *- * >> *- * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> ** >> ** >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> *- * >> * >> >> >> * > > le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 22, 2010
Patrick, Give me the details of the coke bottle test. I'm going to try switching probes. The odd thing is the engine runs smooth. Alan _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe swap a few probes and see what you get. Patrick Thyssen --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen wrote: From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for each cylinder.................................................................... ............. Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle. Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders. On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler" > > Kelly, > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus) > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen > > Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer > to the rest. > > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: >> Patrick, >> >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. >> >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. >> >> Alan >> >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr >> >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 >> >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 >> >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 >> >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 >> >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 >> >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 >> >> other method >> >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 >> >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 >> >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 >> >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick >> Thyssen >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad? >> Peaking or not peaking where they should? >> Just a few thoughts >> Patrick Thyssen >> >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler //* wrote: >> >> >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler(at)metrocast.net> >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM >> >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this >> problem? Any solutions? >> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. >> >> Alan >> >> N668G >> >> >> >> * * >> * * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> ** >> ** >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> * * >> * >> >> >> * > >atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Date: Aug 22, 2010
I'm going to talk to Mattituck tomorrow. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:47 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for each cylinder.................................................................... ............. Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle. Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders. On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler" > > Kelly, > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus) > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen > > Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer > to the rest. > > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: >> Patrick, >> >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. >> >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. >> >> Alan >> >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr >> >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 >> >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 >> >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 >> >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 >> >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 >> >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 >> >> other method >> >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 >> >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 >> >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 >> >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 >> >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick >> Thyssen >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad? >> Peaking or not peaking where they should? >> Just a few thoughts >> Patrick Thyssen >> >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler //* wrote: >> >> >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler(at)metrocast.net> >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM >> >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this >> problem? Any solutions? >> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. >> >> Alan >> >> N668G >> >> >> >> * * >> * * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> ** >> ** >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> * * >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2010
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Simple, but I don't think it will show anything if the engine is running smoothly. You don't say if it runs smoothly LOP. Coke bottle, or baby food jar test.....six bottles, disconnect each injector fuel line, and carefully(minimal or no bending) place each one in bottle. Place mixture full rich, turn on boost pump and observe flow. Shut off before any bottle fills. Compare the volume in each bottle. Remove injectors and carefully install on each fuel line, repeat bottle test observing spray pattern from each injector. Should be uniform spray from each one. On 8/22/2010 4:00 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: > > Patrick, > > Give me the details of the coke bottle test. Im going to try > switching probes. > > The odd thing is the engine runs smooth. > > Alan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick > Thyssen > *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH > INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe > swap a few probes and see what you get. > Patrick Thyssen > > --- On *Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen //* wrote: > > > From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM > > > > > > About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine > builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally > the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for > each > cylinder................................................................................. > > Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker > arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked > inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor > anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with > the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle. > Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with > that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders. > > On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote: > > > > > > Kelly, > > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest > > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus) > > Alan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of > Kelly McMullen > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM > > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > > > > > > > > Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are > > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking > > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2 > > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer > > to the rest. > > > > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote: > >> Patrick, > >> > >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l > >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm > >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they > >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early. > >> > >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm. > >> > >> Alan > >> > >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr > >> > >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1 > >> > >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2 > >> > >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3 > >> > >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4 > >> > >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5 > >> > >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6 > >> > >> other method > >> > >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5 > >> > >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2 > >> > >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1 > >> > >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2 > >> > >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1 > >> > >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5 > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of > *Patrick > >> Thyssen > >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM > >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > >> > >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the > >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the > >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT > >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad? > >> Peaking or not peaking where they should? > >> Just a few thoughts > >> Patrick Thyssen > >> > >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler / >/* wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler(at)metrocast.net > > > >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors > >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM > >> > >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found > >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the > >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other > >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this > >> problem? Any solutions? > >> > >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95 > >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks. > >> > >> Alan > >> > >> N668G > >> > >> > >> > >> * * > >> * * > >> ** > >> ** > >> ** > >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >> ** > >> ** > >> *http://forums.matronics.com* > >> ** > >> ** > >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > >> * * > >> * > >> > >> > >> * > > > >atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co========================http://www.matronics.com/cont=============== > > > * > Navigator to > much much > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > Web > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ===========* > * * > * * > > * * > > ** > > > **


August 09, 2010 - August 22, 2010

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-gx