RV10-Archive.digest.vol-in
December 06, 2011 - December 28, 2011
Looks Great! I think I'll be able to light mine up by the end of the year.
bob
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:14 PM
| Subject: | Another milestone in the building process |
Hi Bob
Attached is a picture - nothing exotic at this point. The panel is
fiberglass - one that I bought eons ago (when I thought I was in for a 3
year build).
The inserts are bare aluminium for now as I have moved things around which
means I have extra holes. I still want to install some annuciator lights
over the EFIS screens and have to install some heating vent controls on the
right side.
In early Jan I plan to make proper inserts (painted and printed etc).
I also want to install a USB outlet and an ELT remote switch on the right
side of the panel.
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: December-05-11 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Another milestone in the building process
What, no pictures?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Installation |
| From: | efdsteve(at)aol.com |
I spent quite a bit of time looking for the Lord product in the smaller qua
ntities but was unable to find it. If anyone wants to split a larger order
, please let me know. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger with Van's
recommendation.
Thanks.
Steve Weinstock
40230
-----Original Message-----
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2011 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Window Installation
How much do you use on a -10, and where do you get it in smaller quantities
?
inn
n 12/5/2011 1:38 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs"<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.
com>
If I am not correct please let me know on this but I believe all Sikaflex
material is a polyurethane base material
And it only comes as a single component material. The Lord 7545A/E materia
l
is a 2 part urethane material which has higher Heat deflection temperatur
e
and is a harder material than the Silkaflex adhesives. I am not sure which
one people
Have used for installing the windows but the Lord is a very good solution.
It is very easy to clean up. Just use
A urethane reducers like PPG DT870. This will not hurt your windows but
works great on cleanup. I would always
Chose a 2 part material over a single part any time when a strong bond or
durable surface is required. Using a
Air cured type system is not as good in my opinion and experience.
FWIW
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling& Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-========================
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The RV10-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Window Installation |
Does anyone know what the sealant is that's used to install car windshields?
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Villani" <Jim(at)sold702.com> |
| Subject: | Window Installation |
http://mechdb.com/index.php/File:Windshield_replacement_3m_window_weld.jpg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 11:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Installation
Does anyone know what the sealant is that's used to install car windshields?
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Window Installation |
http://www.chemical-concepts.com/index.php/lord-7545-a-7545-g-1-1-pak-50ml.html
On 12/6/2011 9:47 AM, efdsteve(at)aol.com wrote:
> I spent quite a bit of time looking for the Lord product in the
> smaller quantities but was unable to find it. If anyone wants to
> split a larger order, please let me know. I'm just about ready to
> pull the trigger with Van's recommendation.
> Thanks.
> Steve Weinstock
> 40230
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
> To: rv10-list
> Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2011 1:48 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Window Installation
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters>
>
> How much do you use on a -10, and where do you get it in smaller quantities?
> Linn
>
>
> On 12/5/2011 1:38 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs">
> >
> > If I am not correct please let me know on this but I believe all Sikaflex
> > material is a polyurethane base material
> > And it only comes as a single component material. The Lord 7545A/E material
> > is a 2 part urethane material which has higher Heat deflection temperature
> > and is a harder material than the Silkaflex adhesives. I am not sure which
> > one people
> > Have used for installing the windows but the Lord is a very good solution.
> > It is very easy to clean up. Just use
> > A urethane reducers like PPG DT870. This will not hurt your windows but
> > works great on cleanup. I would always
> > Chose a 2 part material over a single part any time when a strong bond or
> > durable surface is required. Using a
> > Air cured type system is not as good in my opinion and experience.
> >
> > FWIW
> > Geoff
> >
> >
> > Geoff Combs
> > Aerosport Modeling& Design
> > 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> > Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> > 614-834-5227p
> > 614-834-5230f
> > www.aerosportmodeling.com <http://www.aerosportmodeling.com/>
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Window Installation |
How many 50ml kits would be needed to do all? Windscreen, doors and
side windows?
-Sean #40303
On 12/6/11 2:21 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> http://www.chemical-concepts.com/index.php/lord-7545-a-7545-g-1-1-pak-50ml.html
>
>
> On 12/6/2011 9:47 AM, efdsteve(at)aol.com wrote:
>> I spent quite a bit of time looking for the Lord product in the
>> smaller quantities but was unable to find it. If anyone wants to
>> split a larger order, please let me know. I'm just about ready to
>> pull the trigger with Van's recommendation.
>> Thanks.
>> Steve Weinstock
>> 40230
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
>> To: rv10-list
>> Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2011 1:48 pm
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Window Installation
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn
>> Walters>
>>
>> How much do you use on a -10, and where do you get it in smaller
>> quantities?
>> Linn
>>
>>
>> On 12/5/2011 1:38 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff
>> Combs"> >
>> >
>> > If I am not correct please let me know on this but I believe all
>> Sikaflex
>> > material is a polyurethane base material
>> > And it only comes as a single component material. The Lord 7545A/E
>> material
>> > is a 2 part urethane material which has higher Heat deflection
>> temperature
>> > and is a harder material than the Silkaflex adhesives. I am not
>> sure which
>> > one people
>> > Have used for installing the windows but the Lord is a very good
>> solution.
>> > It is very easy to clean up. Just use
>> > A urethane reducers like PPG DT870. This will not hurt your
>> windows but
>> > works great on cleanup. I would always
>> > Chose a 2 part material over a single part any time when a strong
>> bond or
>> > durable surface is required. Using a
>> > Air cured type system is not as good in my opinion and experience.
>> >
>> > FWIW
>> > Geoff
>> >
>> >
>> > Geoff Combs
>> > Aerosport Modeling& Design
>> > 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
>> > Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>> > 614-834-5227p
>> > 614-834-5230f
>> > www.aerosportmodeling.com <http://www.aerosportmodeling.com/>
>>
>>
>> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
>> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
>> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: Window Glue
I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for adheri
ng the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked up so
me Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we are al
l familiar with.
I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that ex
perience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would loo
k into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive from
the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to use
Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door wi
ndows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the window
adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick c
ure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he h
ad a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more det
ails from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two part ca
rtridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a kit
and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional cost in
that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two part,
1:1, gun packaged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispens
ing nozzle so you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze.
Extra tips are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge
you just chuck the tip and put the cap back on.
I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this st
uff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards
of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made specific
ally as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an excellent p
roduct for this application.
Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little non-sci
entific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap fiberglass any
more but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the windows so I to
ok two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on two pieces of s
crap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let it sit for abou
t a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but it isn't flexi
ble either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise on its edge and
tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how to describe it
but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi broke clear of t
he glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apart and again
the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue joint hasn't bud
ged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaining square wh
ich was basically just the glued area. After several whacks with the frami
ng hammer I was finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY s
eparation of the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can
see what I'm talking about.
Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a li
nk to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each
pack comes with one tip too.
http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
Here's revised links as the link in the original email below is not
correct anymore...
7545A/E 50ml cartridges :
http://www.chemical-concepts.com/index.php/lord-7545a-e-50ml-3.html
Pak-50 Gun :
http://www.chemical-concepts.com/index.php/chem-settm-pak-50-gun.html
Extra Mixer Tips :
http://www.chemical-concepts.com/index.php/tah-190-620-static-mixer-21elements-5-9in-plastic-spiral-bayonet-mixers.html
-Sean #40303
On 12/6/11 9:47 PM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for adhering
the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked up some Lord
7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we are all familiar
with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that experience,
along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would look into
the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive from the existing
alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to use Weldon for
the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door windows Geoff had
mentioned to me that he used something else for the window adhesive that was
very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick cure times and viscosity
issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he had a brief blurb in one
of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more details from him and found a
distributor that I could get the 50ML two part cartridge. The stuff is comparable
in price to the Weldon at about $13 a kit and each 50ML kit will do a window
easily. There is an additional cost in that you need a gun which is about
$30 but it will work with any two part, 1:1, gun packaged product. Each pak
also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so you just stick it in the gun,
put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips are less than a buck and if you
don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck the tip and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this stuff
is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards of 30min
working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made specifically as
a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an excellent product for
this application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little non-scientific
destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap fiberglass anymore
but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the windows so I took two
pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on two pieces of scrap. Cure
time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let it sit for about a week. This
stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but it isn't flexible either. I took
the glued piece and put it in the vise on its edge and tried to separate it
in full edge shear (not really sure how to describe it but was the most difficult
way to break it) and the plexi broke clear of the glue joint. I then turned
it flat and tried to peel it apart and again the plexi broke away from the
glue joint. So far the glue joint hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and
beat the crap out of the remaining square which was basically just the glued area.
After several whacks with the framing hammer I was finally able to get it
to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of the glue joint. I've attached
a few pictures below so you can see what I'm talking about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a link
to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each pack
comes with one tip too.
>
> http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
Michael
The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for adhering the
windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked up some Lord
7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we are all familiar
with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that experience,
along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would look into
the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive from the existing
alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to use Weldon for the
doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door windows Geoff had
mentioned to me that he used something else for the window adhesive that was very
much suited for the task and didn't have the quick cure times and viscosity
issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he had a brief blurb in one of
his post a couple weeks back. So I got more details from him and found a distributor
that I could get the 50ML two part cartridge. The stuff is comparable
in price to the Weldon at about $13 a kit and each 50ML kit will do a window
easily. There is an additional cost in that you need a gun which is about $30
but it will work with any two part, 1:1, gun packaged product. Each pak also
comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so you just stick it in the gun,
put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips are less than a buck and if you don't
use the whole cartridge you just chuck the tip and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this stuff
is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards of 30min
working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made specifically as a
structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an excellent product for this
application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little non-scientific
destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap fiberglass anymore but
I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the windows so I took two pieces
and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on two pieces of scrap. Cure time
for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let it sit for about a week. This
stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but it isn't flexible either. I took
the glued piece and put it in the vise on its edge and tried to separate it in
full edge shear (not really sure how to describe it but was the most difficult
way to break it) and the plexi broke clear of the glue joint. I then turned
it flat and tried to peel it apart and again the plexi broke away from the glue
joint. So far the glue joint hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat
the crap out of the remaining square which was basically just the glued area.
After several whacks with the framing hammer I was finally able to get it to
break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of the glue joint. I've attached
a few pictures below so you can see what I'm talking about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a link to
the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each pack comes
with one tip too.
>
> http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would budget one
kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just to be safe.
Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side windows with
Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the spacers in and had the
windows much too low so now there is a transition down to them. Really wish
I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
Michael
The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for adhering the
windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked up some Lord
7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we are all familiar
with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that experience,
along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would look into
the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive from the existing
alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to use Weldon for the
doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door windows Geoff had
mentioned to me that he used something else for the window adhesive that was very
much suited for the task and didn't have the quick cure times and viscosity
issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he had a brief blurb in one of
his post a couple weeks back. So I got more details from him and found a distributor
that I could get the 50ML two part cartridge. The stuff is comparable
in price to the Weldon at about $13 a kit and each 50ML kit will do a window
easily. There is an additional cost in that you need a gun which is about $30
but it will work with any two part, 1:1, gun pack!
aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so you
just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips are less
than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck the tip
and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this stuff
is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards of 30min
working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made specifically as a
structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an excellent product for this
application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little non-scientific
destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap fiberglass anymore but
I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the windows so I took two pieces
and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on two pieces of scrap. Cure time
for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let it sit for about a week. This
stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but it isn't flexible either. I took
the glued piece and put it in the vise on its edge and tried to separate it in
full edge shear (not really sure how to describe it but was the most difficult
way to break it) and the plexi broke clear of the glue joint. I then turned
it flat and tried to peel it apart and again the plexi broke away from the glue
joint. So far the glue joint hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat
the crap out of the remaining square which was basically just the glued area.
After several whacks with the framing hammer I wa!
s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of the
glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'm talking
about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a link to
the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each pack comes
with one tip too.
>
> http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
-->
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just
to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
Michael
The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked
up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
are all familiar with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to
use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door
windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the window
adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he
had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two part
cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional cost
in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
part, 1:1, gun pack!
aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so
you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck
the tip and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards
of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
excellent product for this application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on
two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let
it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but
it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise on
its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how to
describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi broke
clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apart
and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue joint
hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaining
square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks with
the framing hammer I wa!
s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'm
talking about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each
pack comes with one tip too.
>
> http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in Sout
h Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific a
gency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?=0A-
=0ARegards=0A-=0APatrick Pulis=0AAdelaide=0ASouth Australia=0A=0AFrom: Ge
off Combs =0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0A
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Windo
rtmodeling.com>=0A=0ALord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/
4" bead. I would buy=0Athe 200ML and get 2 of them.=0A200 ml will do 19 ft.
Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a=0Alittle more. The
Windshield =0Ais about the same as the door windows.=0AOrder 4 extra mixing
tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to=0Athe fuse at the doo
r=0AFrame area.=0A=0AGeoff =0A=0A=0A=0AGeoff Combs=0AAerosport =0A8090 Howe
Industrial Parkway =0ACanal Winchester, Ohio 43110=0A614-834-8659p=0A614-8
34-5230f=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@
matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RV Builder=0A(Michael Sausen)=0ASent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue=0A
vbuilder(at)sausen.net>=0A=0A- It's been a while and I only used it on the d
oors so far but I would=0Abudget one kit for each side window and probably
2-3 for the windshield just=0Ato be safe.- Someone else may have a better
recollection.- I did the side=0Awindows with Weldon and I was in such a
rush that I forgot to put the=0Aspacers in and had the windows much too low
so now there is a transition=0Adown to them.- Really wish I had the Lord
stuff for those.=0A=0AMichael=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owne
r-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics
.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney=0ASent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 A
M=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
ichael =0A=0AThe post and the links are greatly appreciated. =0A=0AFor clar
ity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window. =0A=0AChee
rs=0A=0ALes=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Bu
ilder (Michael Sausen)"=0A wrote:=0A=0A> Here is my o
riginal write-up that Kelley referred to......=0A> =0A> -----Original Messa
ge-----=0A> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
=0A> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM=0A> To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.c
om'=0A> Subject: Window Glue=0A> =0A> I thought I would share my experience
with an alternative glue for=0Aadhering the windows.- Based on a recomme
ndation from Geoff Combs, I picked=0Aup some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive
rather than using the Weldon 10 we=0Aare all familiar with.=0A> =0A> I did
follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that=0Aexperie
nce, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would=0Alook i
nto the alternatives.- After not really finding anything definitive=0Afro
m the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to=0A
use Weldon for the doors.- As I got within a couple weeks of doing the do
or=0Awindows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the
window=0Aadhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have th
e quick=0Acure times and viscosity issues of Weldon.- I had forgot about
it until he=0Ahad a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back.-
So I got more=0Adetails from him and found a distributor that I could get t
he 50ML two part=0Acartridge.- The stuff is comparable in price to the We
ldon at about $13 a=0Akit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily.- The
re is an additional cost=0Ain that you need a gun which is about $30 but it
will work with any two=0Apart, 1:1, gun pack!=0A=0Aaged product.- Each p
ak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so=0Ayou just stick it i
n the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze.- Extra tips=0Aare less than a
buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck=0Athe tip and
put the cap back on.=0A> =0A> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've h
eard this before but this=0Astuff is GREAT!- It looks and acts similar to
the Weldon but you get upwards=0Aof 30min working time and it doesn't even
sag!- This stuff is made=0Aspecifically as a structural adhesive for pla
stics so it seems to be an=0Aexcellent product for this application.=0A>
=0A> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little=0Ano
n-scientific destructive testing.- I didn't have a piece of scrap=0Afiber
glass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the=0Awind
ows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on=0Atw
o pieces of scrap.- Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let
=0Ait sit for about a week.- This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldo
n but=0Ait isn't flexible either.- I took the glued piece and put it in t
he vise on=0Aits edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not real
ly sure how to=0Adescribe it but was the most difficult way to break it) an
d the plexi broke=0Aclear of the glue joint.- I then turned it flat and t
ried to peel it apart=0Aand again the plexi broke away from the glue joint.
- So far the glue joint=0Ahasn't budged.- I then took a hammer and beat
the crap out of the remaining=0Asquare which was basically just the glued
area.- After several whacks with=0Athe framing hammer I wa!=0A=0As finall
y able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of=0Athe glu
e joint.- I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'm=0Ata
lking about.=0A> =0A> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from.- T
his page also has a=0Alink to the gun you need and extra tips if you want t
hem.- Keep in mind each=0Apack comes with one tip too.- =0A> =0A> http:
//chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit==0A> =0A> Here is a
technical datasheet on 7545A:=0A> =0A> http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545
_TN001.pdf=0A> =0A> Michael=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=========================0A
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
> Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in Sou
th Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific a
gency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
>
> Regards
>
> Patrick Pulis
> Adelaide
> South Australia
>
> From: Geoff Combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
com>
>
> Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
> the 200ML and get 2 of them.
> 200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts
a
> little more. The Windshield
> is about the same as the door windows.
> Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
> the fuse at the door
> Frame area.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
> Geoff Combs
> Aerosport
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-8659p
> 614-834-5230f
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
> -->
>
> It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
> budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield ju
st
> to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
> windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
> spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
> down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
>
> Michael
>
> The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
>
> For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
> wrote:
>
> > Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> > To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> > Subject: Window Glue
> >
> > I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
> adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picke
d
> up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
> are all familiar with.
> >
> > I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
> experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
> look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
> from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself t
o
> use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the doo
r
> windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the wind
ow
> adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
> cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he
> had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
> details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two par
t
> cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
> kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional cos
t
> in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
> part, 1:1, gun pack!
>
> aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so
> you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
> are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chu
ck
> the tip and put the cap back on.
> >
> > I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
> stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwar
ds
> of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
> specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
> excellent product for this application.
> >
> > Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
> non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
> fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
> windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on
> two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let
> it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon bu
t
> it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise o
n
> its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how t
o
> describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi brok
e
> clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apart
> and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue joint
> hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remainin
g
> square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks with
> the framing hammer I wa!
>
> s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
> the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'
m
> talking about.
> >
> > Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
> link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind ea
ch
> pack comes with one tip too.
> >
> > http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
> >
> > Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
> >
> > http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.bsp; --> http://www.matrobsp; -M
att http://www.matronics.com/con===============
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Services Restored! |
Dear Listers,
web services have been fully restored including the Web Forums, List Browse,
Archive Search, Wiki, and AeroElectric web sites. It was quite an ordeal getting
the replacement boards for the server, but things went back together tonight
and are up and running nicely. The first company I ordered the boards from
originally called me a day later to say that, whoops, they really didn't have
them in stock after all... Fortunately, I was able to locate some through
a different source and had then over-nighted and they arrived today.
Thank you for your patience and consideration though the whole thing!
The List Contribution web site is also back on line for those wishing to make a
donation to the effort:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | alternate air/bypass air on fuel injection |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey guys,
I need some pilot input here. I'm helping an RV-8 builder on his cowl intake and
airbox. He has a fuel injected four cylinder engine -- same setup as the -10.
He says Van's instructions call for a bypass door on the bottom AND and alternate
door in the "snout" of the box (allows engine compartment air to be filtered
instead of snorkle air). On Wes's RV-10 we only installed the emergency
door on the bottom. The thought is that with fuel injection there is not
the icing problem as with a carburated engine ...?
It seems to me that it would be redundant to have two doors (and more gizmos/messier
install/things to mess up, etc.) if the reason to have the snout door is
to "pull in warm cowling air to defrost the filter" -- if you had ice, bird strike,
debris, whatever in through the cowl snorkle, wouldn't you have to open
the bypass door anyway?
Are others really installing two doors? Obviously I'm just the hired help, his
plane, he's the pilot, etc. but I'd like some experienced input.
Thanks, - Lew
And congrats, Matt on the quick fix. Happy holidays to all!
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360443#360443
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternate air/bypass air on fuel injection |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
The front hinged cable operated door door is for carb heat. If you are fuel injected,
you don't need it. The lower door is the filter bypass/alternate air
door, used on case the filter becomes plugged.
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2011, at 7:27 AM, "Lew Gallagher" wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I need some pilot input here. I'm helping an RV-8 builder on his cowl intake
and airbox. He has a fuel injected four cylinder engine -- same setup as the
-10. He says Van's instructions call for a bypass door on the bottom AND and
alternate door in the "snout" of the box (allows engine compartment air to be
filtered instead of snorkle air). On Wes's RV-10 we only installed the emergency
door on the bottom. The thought is that with fuel injection there is not
the icing problem as with a carburated engine ...?
>
> It seems to me that it would be redundant to have two doors (and more gizmos/messier
install/things to mess up, etc.) if the reason to have the snout door
is to "pull in warm cowling air to defrost the filter" -- if you had ice, bird
strike, debris, whatever in through the cowl snorkle, wouldn't you have to open
the bypass door anyway?
>
> Are others really installing two doors? Obviously I'm just the hired help, his
plane, he's the pilot, etc. but I'd like some experienced input.
>
> Thanks, - Lew
>
> And congrats, Matt on the quick fix. Happy holidays to all!
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Fly off completed !
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360443#360443
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Monster retread caution |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
On a recommendation from this forum I deleted the factory tires and ordered the
Monster retreads. It is a very nice tire with a nice thick tread. The problem
is that nice thick tread turns the 15 inch tire you ordered effectively into
a 16 inch tire which if you don't realize at the time (I didn't) throws off the
plan dimensions for the pant fitment. I ended up dropping the spacer down to
3/4 inch. I've still got more exposed tire than most, but I'm okay with that.
I've got some unimproved strips on my favorites list and can also use a conventional
chock on a main.
I like the bigger tire and higher pant clearance. In the end it will be an accidental
mod that I would have chosen had I been clever enough to figure it out
from the beginning.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360477#360477
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv-10 training pirep |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I did my training three weeks ago. David is very patient and knowledgable. I was
able to check off everything on my to do list while there, even 16G25 direct
xw landings. I was still nervous on my first flight, but not because of my flying
ability. Transition training takes care of that. How much did it cost me
including airfare/accomodations/meals.....Less than 1% of total build cost.
Worth every dollar!
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360493#360493
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate air/bypass air on fuel injection |
I think you hit the nail on the head. I only installed one door.
Dick Sipp
RV-10
-----Original Message-----
From: Lew Gallagher
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 7:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: alternate air/bypass air on fuel injection
Hey guys,
I need some pilot input here. I'm helping an RV-8 builder on his cowl
intake and airbox. He has a fuel injected four cylinder engine -- same setup
as the -10. He says Van's instructions call for a bypass door on the
bottom AND and alternate door in the "snout" of the box (allows engine
compartment air to be filtered instead of snorkle air). On Wes's RV-10 we
only installed the emergency door on the bottom. The thought is that with
fuel injection there is not the icing problem as with a carburated engine
...?
It seems to me that it would be redundant to have two doors (and more
gizmos/messier install/things to mess up, etc.) if the reason to have the
snout door is to "pull in warm cowling air to defrost the filter" -- if you
had ice, bird strike, debris, whatever in through the cowl snorkle, wouldn't
you have to open the bypass door anyway?
Are others really installing two doors? Obviously I'm just the hired help,
his plane, he's the pilot, etc. but I'd like some experienced input.
Thanks, - Lew
And congrats, Matt on the quick fix. Happy holidays to all!
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360443#360443
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
| Subject: | Baron Mobile Link? |
Anyone using Baron Mobile Link to get XM weather on an iPad (with ForeFligh
t)?
Opinions/comments?
The other Tim
N52KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
After researching the various options currently available and watching the prices
steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett Precision
Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for the buck.
I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right now I'm planning
standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled certified FI,
and Pmags.
I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in the
build process, good luck (and start saving).
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
congrats on the Barrett! They are a great builder and great with support.
You will be very happy with that decision.
-----Original Message-----
From: woxofswa
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:00 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine order blues
After researching the various options currently available and watching the
prices steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett
Precision Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for
the buck. I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right
now I'm planning standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled
certified FI, and Pmags.
I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in
the build process, good luck (and start saving).
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
finishing kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trio price reduction |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Trio has just reduced prices significantly - on the order of $1,000.
I wonder if this is due to competition from the EFIS makers who are now selling
their own autopilots?
I really like my Trio with autotrim (which you can also use manually when hand-flying).
At this price I think it's a real bargain.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360545#360545
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
Let me know what Barrett says when you tell them you want to use Lightspeed.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, "Pascal" wrote:
>
> congrats on the Barrett! They are a great builder and great with support. You
will be very happy with that decision.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: woxofswa
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:00 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine order blues
>
>
> After researching the various options currently available and watching the prices
steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett Precision
Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for the buck.
I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right now I'm planning
standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled certified FI,
and Pmags.
> I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
> Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in the
build process, good luck (and start saving).
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
>>Good luck getting PMags for a Lyc 540 as they do not exist.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360547#360547
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
I would be amazed if any engine builder still endorses Lightspeed.
I replaced a dual Lightspeed install in my 8A with dual P-mags a few years
ago and an very pleased with the Pmags. If anyone is interested I'll send
my experience with Klaus and why I pulled his ignition out off my plane off
line.
Just got a note from Brad at eMag - providing some confidence on his
shipping me the two 6 cylinder units in the near future. The plane is
painted and I'm now in the final panel wire and bolt on phase so I'm hopeful
the timing works.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Engine order blues
Let me know what Barrett says when you tell them you want to use Lightspeed.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, "Pascal" wrote:
>
> congrats on the Barrett! They are a great builder and great with support.
You will be very happy with that decision.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: woxofswa
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:00 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine order blues
>
>
> After researching the various options currently available and watching the
prices steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett
Precision Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for
the buck. I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right
now I'm planning standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled
certified FI, and Pmags.
> I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
> Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in
the build process, good luck (and start saving).
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
finishing kit in progress.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
Are six cyl Pmags now available?
On 12/9/2011 11:00 AM, woxofswa wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa"
>
> After researching the various options currently available and watching the prices
steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett Precision
Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for the buck.
I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right now I'm planning
standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled certified FI,
and Pmags.
> I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
> Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in the
build process, good luck (and start saving).
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | New electronic ignition |
>From the Lancair Mail List:
(I'm going out on a limb and assuming that confidentiality isn't
really too important. Monty's reputation speaks volumes, and Brent's
is at least as stellar in Lancair and Chelton circles--DS)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Steve Colwell <mcmess1919(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 4:04 PM
Subject: [LML] Rumor
I can confirm a rumor, from a very reliable source, that a new
electronic ignition is in the final stages of testing. I wont
mention the names of who is involved, but their initials are Brent
Regan and Monty Barrett. This is just between us, OK?
Steve Colwell Legacy IO-550 (temporarily equipped with Slick Mags)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Could anyone tell me what flap positioning system they've used?=0A-=0ASho
uld I install the stock standard Vans flap posi or alternatively the- FPS
-Plus Reflex unit from Aircraft Extras Inc.?=0A-=0AMany thanks in anticip
ation.=0A-=0APat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Depends on whether the EFIS you do or don't plan on, and/or Vertical Power
unit has ability to control flap positioning without an external flap
positioner.
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
> Could anyone tell me what flap positioning system they've used?
>
> Should I install the stock standard Vans flap positioner or alternatively
> the FPS-Plus Reflex unit from *Aircraft Extras Inc*.?
>
> Many thanks in anticipation.
>
> Pat
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
[quote="rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com"]Could anyone tell me what flap positioning system
they've used?
Should I install the stock standard Vans flap positioner or alternatively the
FPS-Plus Reflex unit from Aircraft Extras Inc.?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Pat
> [b]
I used the Vertical Power VP-200 instead. You simply put a Ray Allen position sensor
on it and the VP does the rest. It reminds me to raise the flaps for takeoff,
and won't extend them if the airspeed is too high. You can make the increments
any angle you want.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360619#360619
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu> |
| Subject: | 500 hours with no ignition boost |
My RV-10 has been flying since 2007 with a factory new Lycoming IO-540 with Slick
Mags. It always started well when cold, and was a little tricky to start when
something other than cold (either some middle temperature or the classic hot
start with fuel boiling in the injector lines). But is was all pretty workable
until about 480 flight hours when it just would not fire up when flown just
a few minutes to some middle engine temp between stone cold and very hot.
Pulled both of the mags and got them rebuilt at 500 hrs as part of the annual condition
inspection, and discovered something I guess I should have picked up
on five hundred hours ago: neither mag on the Lyc IO-450 D4A5 has an impulse
coupling in it, though both of them have the collar that caused both me and several
A&P's to guess that I had not one, but two impulse couplings. And the left
Slick mag has the extra stud on it for attaching a SlickStart unit. (Of course,
there was never the distinctive 'clack' of an impulse coupling, but what
did I know -- perhaps Slick had some new silent technology hidden in those mag
collars.)
Suffice it to say, my IO-540 now has a SlickStart that totally solved the starting
problem, but I wonder how did this all fall through the cracks during the
original build? Nowhere in Van's instructions from 2007 does it say that if you
get a factory new IO-540 through them that you will also need to add a SlickStart
to complete the firewall forward installation.
I'm guessing I am not the only RV-10 builder to whom this mini-revelation might
apply. So if you've got dual Slick mags on an engine you bought new through
Van's, there is an additional ignition accessory you might or might not have known
to add to your build.
On the other hand, I did get a rather amazing 500 flight hours from a new IO-540
that was able to get going without any ignition boost.
-Dan Masys
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 500 hours with no ignition boost |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
You must have the fast turning lightweight starter and Odyssey pc925 battery like
me. I wonder if your battery needs replacing. This would occur about now.
I really like my slick start. It will jump a good 1/2" gap to ground when I tested
mine.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360629#360629
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 500 hours with no ignition boost |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I'll admit, I made the same mistake. I discovered it when I first drained the preservation
oil and turned the prop over by hand, and said, "Where's the click?".
Only then did I research the mags and find they had retard breakers but no
impulse coupling (actually, just the left mag). So I bought the Slick start then.
The paperwork from Vans is a little unclear; as I recall it says "Slick start recommended".
No where did it mention that there were no impulse couplings, so
that the Slick start was really required.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360631#360631
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose
that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have
the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice
to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just
one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money
for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards
you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your
stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Before I went with the VP-200, I was planning on that Aircraft Extras unit.
Rich is great to work with and I have his fuel guardian unit and I'm about to
get the LCD button to use as a warn for different alerts.
Michael
On Dec 10, 2011, at 8:59 AM, "johngoodman" wrote:
>
> [quote="rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com"]Could anyone tell me what flap positioning
system they've used?
>
> Should I install the stock standard Vans flap positioner or alternatively the
FPS-Plus Reflex unit from Aircraft Extras Inc.?
>
> Many thanks in anticipation.
>
> Pat
>
>
>> [b]
>
>
> I used the Vertical Power VP-200 instead. You simply put a Ray Allen position
sensor on it and the VP does the rest. It reminds me to raise the flaps for takeoff,
and won't extend them if the airspeed is too high. You can make the increments
any angle you want.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360619#360619
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
Tell them that I recommended the light speed and you'll get an even more animated
response! Seriously though, great family to deal with.
Michael
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:11 PM, "Michael Kraus" wrote:
>
> Let me know what Barrett says when you tell them you want to use Lightspeed.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, "Pascal" wrote:
>
>>
>> congrats on the Barrett! They are a great builder and great with support. You
will be very happy with that decision.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: woxofswa
>> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:00 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine order blues
>>
>>
>> After researching the various options currently available and watching the prices
steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett Precision
Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for the buck.
I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right now I'm planning
standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled certified
FI, and Pmags.
>> I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
>> Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in the
build process, good luck (and start saving).
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold
(freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we
built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,,
and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you
are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer
from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all.
Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose
that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have
the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice
to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just
one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money
for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards
you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your
stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
Klaus as a personality is a dick to deal with, that's why I was the last person
that Barrett put a lightspeed on. Ignoring Klaus's personality his product
is well proven. P/E Mag had TONS of problems when they came out that are well
documented.
For every person that says they pulled their light speed there is probably 2-3
that pulled their p-mag. But that was then and they have improved their product
greatly.
Bottom line, do your research and base your decision on history and performance
not just the guy selling it. There is no place to pull over at 10,000 feet.
Michael
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 9, 2011, at 2:03 PM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
>
> I would be amazed if any engine builder still endorses Lightspeed.
>
> I replaced a dual Lightspeed install in my 8A with dual P-mags a few years
> ago and an very pleased with the Pmags. If anyone is interested I'll send
> my experience with Klaus and why I pulled his ignition out off my plane off
> line.
>
> Just got a note from Brad at eMag - providing some confidence on his
> shipping me the two 6 cylinder units in the near future. The plane is
> painted and I'm now in the final panel wire and bolt on phase so I'm hopeful
> the timing works.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:56 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Engine order blues
>
>
> Let me know what Barrett says when you tell them you want to use Lightspeed.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, "Pascal" wrote:
>
>>
>> congrats on the Barrett! They are a great builder and great with support.
> You will be very happy with that decision.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: woxofswa
>> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:00 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine order blues
>>
>>
>> After researching the various options currently available and watching the
> prices steadily escalate, I ended up ordering a core rebuild from Barrett
> Precision Engines. For my needs and budget, it seemed like the most bang for
> the buck. I still have some time to decide final configuration, but right
> now I'm planning standard compression (for future fuel unknowns), overhauled
> certified FI, and Pmags.
>> I'm building a cruiser, not a racer.
>> Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. For those early in
> the build process, good luck (and start saving).
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
> finishing kit in progress.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360539#360539
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Not exactly apples to apples though. Blue Mountain had a short and sorted
history and I would compare them more to Jan and his engine building escapa
des than a company like VP.
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 2:40 PM, "davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net" > wrote:
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies
cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy
MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been not
hing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails.
And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took
an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Tha
nks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
________________________________
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com<mailto:wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.c
om>>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
lto:wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com>>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy c
hoose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I
have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle positio
n twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. I
t is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have t
he money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circ
uit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you bet
ter know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ h
vac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n================
===
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Very well aware that these are two different products from two different companies.
Point being at least for me is that there is no way I am willing to let one
single electronic component control all the electronics in my plane. Not bashing
VP or those that go this route. Just saying that if it takes a crap for
whatever reason while your away from home,,,,your gonna be hard pressed to get
back in the air anytime soon.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:52:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
Not exactly apples to apples though. Blue Mountain had a short and sorted history
and I would compare them more to Jan and his engine building escapades than
a company like VP.
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 2:40 PM, " davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net " < davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net
> wrote:
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies cold
(freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy MKIV we
built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been nothing but trouble,,,,
and you really need to know that stuff when it fails. And yes,,,,you
are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took an electronic engineer
from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Thanks. Not bashing VP at all.
Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "rv10flyer" < wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com >
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy choose
that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I have
the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle position twice
to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It is just
one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have the money
for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circuit boards
you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you better know your
stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ hvac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n====================
ectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
builthelp.com
.matronics.com/contribution
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | New electronic ignition |
I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10 since new with
over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and needed to be replaced and just
recently I added the panel meter that displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter was
intermittent. Worked directly with Klaus both times and could not be more impressed
with his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works well, and has been
very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick mag.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New electronic ignition |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
You must be the one guy that got along with Klaus....
I sent him my flywheel to drill in the magnets, he drilled them in the wrong spot,
and he blamed it on me?!?!? I didn't specify where they needed to be, he tells
me?!?! Then he hangs up on me after he said it wasn't his problem?!?!
Excuse me, I thought the guy who designed the system would know where they'd go,
and if there was a question, I thought he'd ask....
I'm not sure how many times you have had your prop on and off, but it's no small
task and thanks to Klaus it has been more than I'd like....
-Mike Kraus
RV-10 61 hours
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Albert Gardner" wrote:
>
> I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10 since new with
over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and needed to be replaced and just
recently I added the panel meter that displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter
was intermittent. Worked directly with Klaus both times and could not be more
impressed with his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works well, and has
been very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick mag.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
No master avionics switch for you then. :)
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:48 PM, "davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net" > wrote:
Very well aware that these are two different products from two different co
mpanies. Point being at least for me is that there is no way I am willing
to let one single electronic component control all the electronics in my pl
ane. Not bashing VP or those that go this route. Just saying that if it t
akes a crap for whatever reason while your away from home,,,,your gonna be
hard pressed to get back in the air anytime soon.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net<mailto:rvbuilder@
sausen.net>>
matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:52:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
Not exactly apples to apples though. Blue Mountain had a short and sorted
history and I would compare them more to Jan and his engine building escapa
des than a company like VP.
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 10, 2011, at 2:40 PM, "davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net" > wrote:
I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my buddies
cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy
MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been not
hing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it fails.
And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed it took
an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it! No Tha
nks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
________________________________
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com<mailto:wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.c
om>>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
lto:wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com>>
I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy c
hoose that route.
When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place. I
have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle positio
n twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. I
t is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have t
he money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more circ
uit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and you bet
ter know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16 seer+ h
vac systems.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360632#360632
_p; &n================
===
ectric.com<http://ectric.com>
">www.buildersbooks.com
builthelp.com<http://builthelp.com>
.matronics.com/contribution
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ics.com<http://ics.com>
.matronics.com/contribution
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New electronic ignition |
I guess I am the second guy that has gotten along fine with Klaus.
One minor problem with the crank sensor during the build was
immediately corrected with no unpleasant issues. As a matter of fact,
Klaus brought the new sensor to Sun n' Fun that year and delivered it
to me in person. As most have noted, the performance of the
Lightspeed has been flawless with 440 hours to date. I am not
doubting the people who have had issues with him, (there have been
plenty!) but my experience with Klaus has been fine. I don't know if
you just have to catch him on a good day, or what.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Dec 10, 2011, at 6:44 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
>
>
> You must be the one guy that got along with Klaus....
>
> I sent him my flywheel to drill in the magnets, he drilled them in
> the wrong spot, and he blamed it on me?!?!? I didn't specify where
> they needed to be, he tells me?!?! Then he hangs up on me after he
> said it wasn't his problem?!?!
>
> Excuse me, I thought the guy who designed the system would know
> where they'd go, and if there was a question, I thought he'd ask....
>
> I'm not sure how many times you have had your prop on and off, but
> it's no small task and thanks to Klaus it has been more than I'd
> like....
>
> -Mike Kraus
> RV-10 61 hours
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Albert Gardner"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10
>> since new with over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and
>> needed to be replaced and just recently I added the panel meter
>> that displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter was intermittent.
>> Worked directly with Klaus both times and could not be more
>> impressed with his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works
>> well, and has been very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick
>> mag.
>> Albert Gardner
>> N991RV
>> Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New electronic ignition |
| From: | Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)me.com> |
Lightspeed has worked for me with no problems for 350hours. My dealings with Klaus
have been cordial and professional. I am glad I installed his ignition system.
I have nothing but good things to say about him and his product. Robert RV
10 N661G.
Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sent from my Apple iPad
On Dec 10, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
>
> You must be the one guy that got along with Klaus....
>
> I sent him my flywheel to drill in the magnets, he drilled them in the wrong
spot, and he blamed it on me?!?!? I didn't specify where they needed to be, he
tells me?!?! Then he hangs up on me after he said it wasn't his problem?!?!
>
> Excuse me, I thought the guy who designed the system would know where they'd
go, and if there was a question, I thought he'd ask....
>
> I'm not sure how many times you have had your prop on and off, but it's no small
task and thanks to Klaus it has been more than I'd like....
>
> -Mike Kraus
> RV-10 61 hours
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Albert Gardner" wrote:
>
>>
>> I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10 since new
with over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and needed to be replaced and just
recently I added the panel meter that displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter
was intermittent. Worked directly with Klaus both times and could not be more
impressed with his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works well, and has
been very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick mag.
>> Albert Gardner
>> N991RV
>> Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baron Mobile Link? |
| From: | "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com> |
I have the baron mobile link using the USB adapter to my XM rcvr. The ipad recognizes
the wireless "mobile link" and connects with the rcvr. The weather is
downloaded every 5 minutes so it may take a few minutes before you actually get
the weather display. It then refreshes every 5 minutes after.
All the weather functions on Foreflight work in the air using the mobile link.
Taping on an airport on the chart will bring up the airport page with the weather
for that airport.
Greg...
--------
Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360659#360659
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
If the master switch goes bad, I have an aux master contacter connected to pc680
bat which can also start engine. I also have aux ebus relay that sends power
up front to power all avionics from pc680 for up to 1.2 hrs. I have fuse blocks.
I have a little more wire and a bunch of switches, but I am okay with it.
We all do things a little different. There are advantages and disadvantages to
every choice we make during the build. When we all get together to go flying it
really won't matter much. RV-10's are great no matter how you build it.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360666#360666
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
Hi Jeff,
it's less advanced then all the other electronic ignition systems and it
is certified. I'm running it with great success on a 320 in my current
flying Glastar, using LOP and I'm happy with it. Just make sure the box
itself is very well protected against moisture, a friend of mine had an
issue his plane sitting in the outside heavy rain and then water
dropping into the box.
There is a special box for timing needed and with a serial cable you can
get directly at the status of the box. No timing curves to choose.
Standard rebuilt for maintenance as they have one standard magneto.
In case you don't want to keep it, drop me an email please glastar at
gmx dot net
Thanks
Werner
On 10.12.2011 16:09, Jeff Nichols wrote:
> My used engine came with LASER ignition system installed. Does anyone
> have any experience with this system as I am not flying yet and do plan
> on using it. I believe it is electronic with mag backup.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
The Lasar ignition system was owned by Unison. They have divested virtually
all their piston engine products. Not sure about the Lasar system status.
It also tends to make an engine run hotter, because Lycoming only gave them
the max temperature limits(475 max 425 cruise), not what are desirable
temps. So it probably should have a little less advance than it does. If it
is working, fine. I wouldn't spend any money on a system or go to the
trouble of installing one.
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> it's less advanced then all the other electronic ignition systems and it
> is certified. I'm running it with great success on a 320 in my current
> flying Glastar, using LOP and I'm happy with it. Just make sure the box
> itself is very well protected against moisture, a friend of mine had an
> issue his plane sitting in the outside heavy rain and then water dropping
> into the box.
>
> There is a special box for timing needed and with a serial cable you can
> get directly at the status of the box. No timing curves to choose.
>
> Standard rebuilt for maintenance as they have one standard magneto.
>
> In case you don't want to keep it, drop me an email please glastar at gmx
> dot net
>
> Thanks
>
> Werner
>
>
> On 10.12.2011 16:09, Jeff Nichols wrote:
>
>> My used engine came with LASER ignition system installed. Does anyone
>> have any experience with this system as I am not flying yet and do plan
>> on using it. I believe it is electronic with mag backup.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | New Electronic Ignition System |
This was sent to me for posting by Brent Regan. He's developed
many things that have been top notch in quality, so I'm curious
to see how these things take off. I have no other info on them
personally, so take this as a press release, and contact BPA
with your questions...
Tim
-----------------------------------
A while ago I was approached by Monty Barrett of BPA to develop and
ignition system for the 9 cylinder M14 radial engine. The magnetos for
these engines were out of production and unreliable. We applied our
experience designing certified aerospace electronics and came up with a
magneto replacement system with a Timing Controller that featured an
internal poly-phase alternator, manifold pressure sensor, independent
High-Q magnetic flux sensors and dual microprocessors with cascading
redundancy. Everything is packaged in a billet machined, O-ring sealed
MIL-Spec, water and dust proof anodized housing. The Timing Controller
is coupled to independent "Coil Near Plug" high energy Smart Coils that
deliver a measured 80+mJ of energy to the spark plasma. The entire
system is rated to 125 degrees C operating temperature (257 degF), 10G
sign-on-random vibration, direct and indirect lightning effects as well
as a host of other DO160F test requirements.
While we were designing this system it occurred to me that I would like
a couple of these on my IV-P, so we designed it so it could accommodate
6 or 9 cylinder engines. The only difference being the internal sensor
ratio and firmware.
The system components have passed qualification testing and the 9
cylinder system is currently on the BPA dynamometer undergoing
performance mapping and endurance testing. This is where we develop the
advance parameters for RPM and manifold pressure. It really isn't
practical to attempt to develop these advance curves without a dynamometer.
Monty at BPA is currently booking orders for the 9 cylinder M14 system.
The problem with the 6 cylinder "market" is that there are many
variables and each significant variant of manufacturer, induction system
and compression ratio needs to be dynomometer qualified. So, to solve
this problem Monty will be offering a significant discount on the
ignition system to select 6 cylinder customers who have BPA perform
their overhaul and consent to having Monty performance map their engine
after the post overhaul dyanamometer run-in.
The reason for the dyno testing is that it is not a good idea to just
make a guess at the correct timing based on RPM and manifold pressure
and then go fly. That would be like buying a suit out of a catalog. A
good outcome is unlikely.
The attached picture shows the Timing Controller. It replaces the
magneto and contains the poly phase alternator, electronics and manifold
pressure sensor. The MIL-Spec connector is the interface to the
individual coils. The red cap covers the -4 JIC threaded fitting for the
manifold pressure connection. Under the blue cap are the firmware update
connector and integral static timing light. There is NO separate "Brain
Box" to deal with.
The system is not available for 4 cylinder engines at this time.
If you are interested, contact BPA http://www.bpaengines.com
Regards
Brent Regan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New electronic ignition |
I've heard a few people over the years that have a problem with Klaus,
so it's not an entirely foreign thing. That said, he's been great
to talk to for me, and I've stopped by his hangar on one of our trips
and seen his operation. He can be a very personable guy.
What I think sometimes happens with all the Avionics and other
aircraft electronics is the same thing that happens with computers
and geek toys in general...a big burnout in dealing with complete
idiots. (not implying anything, Mike...this is a general thing.)
Manufacturers get really tired of morons buying their products
and getting in over their heads, not taking the time to
understand avionics, wiring, or even fully read the manuals. I've
spent SO much time myself helping Chelton users who just refuse
to RTFM! It's absurd that people think that they can buy a
device, and just look at a wiring diagram and plug it all together
and have it work well. Then they call complaining that things
don't work, only to make the guy take the time to ask if they've
remembered to do these 8 or 10 forgotten steps in the install
manual. I have to support computer users on a daily basis
and I can tell you, it can make you pretty grumpy. Not saying
this is what happens with Klaus, but it is something to be
aware of. Many of us who have better experiences with vendors
tend to perhaps be a little more diligent in our manual
reading so that we don't rely on the vendor so much. That's
also the beauty of this forum....you can ask dumb questions and
get pointed in the right direction by friends...not have to
go get your vendor all ticked off that you didn't take the
time to read everything they wrote. So I guess the moral
of the story is, read the manuals, try to be a good customer,
and maybe rely on your fellow forum folks for some tips
on things before you dive in too hard with vendor support.
Come to think of it, isn't that what we do with Van's and the
kits?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 12/10/2011 5:44 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael
> Kraus
>
> You must be the one guy that got along with Klaus....
>
> I sent him my flywheel to drill in the magnets, he drilled them in
> the wrong spot, and he blamed it on me?!?!? I didn't specify where
> they needed to be, he tells me?!?! Then he hangs up on me after he
> said it wasn't his problem?!?!
>
> Excuse me, I thought the guy who designed the system would know where
> they'd go, and if there was a question, I thought he'd ask....
>
> I'm not sure how many times you have had your prop on and off, but
> it's no small task and thanks to Klaus it has been more than I'd
> like....
>
> -Mike Kraus RV-10 61 hours
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Albert Gardner"
> wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert
>> Gardner"
>>
>> I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10
>> since new with over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and needed
>> to be replaced and just recently I added the panel meter that
>> displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter was intermittent. Worked
>> directly with Klaus both times and could not be more impressed with
>> his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works well, and has been
>> very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick mag. Albert
>> Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | New electronic ignition |
Sorry Tim, I have to push back. As all on this list justifiably value your
recommendations, I offer another view on the Lightspeed issue.
Of all the vendors I have worked with, Klaus stands out as the worst for
after the sale service. While I agree many problem may be builder self
inflicted, I personally found three problems with Klaus' Plasma II+
ignition. For each one he consistently told me I was wrong, then after many
follow up communications (all initiated by me), he each time agreed the
product was as fault. On one of these problems I did field repair of five
of his boxes after he finally allowed me to send one back (at which point he
confirmed the fault - two wrong value resistors on the board). He never
even said thank you for me finding a major production problem with his
product.
When the ignitions worked, they worked well. The string of problems I had
with over just 450 hours of service however tripped my reliability tolerance
and made for an easy decision to pull them off my 8A.
I'm encouraged you have had a good engagement with Klaus. My experience
with Klaus was between 2002 and 2009 - perhaps he now sees his approach to
customer service has negatively impacted his market share and he has turned
a new leaf.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New electronic ignition
I've heard a few people over the years that have a problem with Klaus,
so it's not an entirely foreign thing. That said, he's been great
to talk to for me, and I've stopped by his hangar on one of our trips
and seen his operation. He can be a very personable guy.
What I think sometimes happens with all the Avionics and other
aircraft electronics is the same thing that happens with computers
and geek toys in general...a big burnout in dealing with complete
idiots. (not implying anything, Mike...this is a general thing.)
Manufacturers get really tired of morons buying their products
and getting in over their heads, not taking the time to
understand avionics, wiring, or even fully read the manuals. I've
spent SO much time myself helping Chelton users who just refuse
to RTFM! It's absurd that people think that they can buy a
device, and just look at a wiring diagram and plug it all together
and have it work well. Then they call complaining that things
don't work, only to make the guy take the time to ask if they've
remembered to do these 8 or 10 forgotten steps in the install
manual. I have to support computer users on a daily basis
and I can tell you, it can make you pretty grumpy. Not saying
this is what happens with Klaus, but it is something to be
aware of. Many of us who have better experiences with vendors
tend to perhaps be a little more diligent in our manual
reading so that we don't rely on the vendor so much. That's
also the beauty of this forum....you can ask dumb questions and
get pointed in the right direction by friends...not have to
go get your vendor all ticked off that you didn't take the
time to read everything they wrote. So I guess the moral
of the story is, read the manuals, try to be a good customer,
and maybe rely on your fellow forum folks for some tips
on things before you dive in too hard with vendor support.
Come to think of it, isn't that what we do with Van's and the
kits?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 12/10/2011 5:44 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael
> Kraus
>
> You must be the one guy that got along with Klaus....
>
> I sent him my flywheel to drill in the magnets, he drilled them in
> the wrong spot, and he blamed it on me?!?!? I didn't specify where
> they needed to be, he tells me?!?! Then he hangs up on me after he
> said it wasn't his problem?!?!
>
> Excuse me, I thought the guy who designed the system would know where
> they'd go, and if there was a question, I thought he'd ask....
>
> I'm not sure how many times you have had your prop on and off, but
> it's no small task and thanks to Klaus it has been more than I'd
> like....
>
> -Mike Kraus RV-10 61 hours
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Albert Gardner"
> wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert
>> Gardner"
>>
>> I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10
>> since new with over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and needed
>> to be replaced and just recently I added the panel meter that
>> displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter was intermittent. Worked
>> directly with Klaus both times and could not be more impressed with
>> his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works well, and has been
>> very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick mag. Albert
>> Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not upgrading
software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the old software
until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.
I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his interconnected
systems.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360700#360700
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
And do a backup before you upgrade so you can switch back
Werner
On 11.12.2011 22:14, Bob Turner wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"
>
> For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest
not upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them
on the old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has
no bugs.
>
> I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
interconnected systems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
One of the nice things about the setup that Les has is that the AP will fly
the plane all by itself. Heading changes can easily be dialed in to the AP
along with climb and descent all without any support from the EFIS units.
Make sure one provides a redundant GPS source. Given the 430W stays up
you have a moving map with com and let the AP fly the plane. Bare bones but
provides a solution if both EFIS units go south in IFR conditions.
Bob, You are correct to not upgrade both units until you have a reliable /
working update.
Jim C
N312F - 300+ hours
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not
> upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the
> old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.
>
> I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
> interconnected systems.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360700#360700
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
"I'd suggest not upgrading software in both units at the same time"
May be fine with the AFS, but one can not do a software upgrade on a Dynon
Skyview unless both/all units are upgraded. it's a networked system
(master/slave, per se) or redundancy that requires all hardware (AP servos,
EMS, PFD, etc) are the same version otherwise the red XXX is what one will
get. With VP, there are separate circuits for each display, so if I lose one
VP powered circuit I'll have the display go dark (although I have a battery
backup), if I lose another quadrant of the VP, which say my other display or
servos are on, I lose that specific feature, but the Dynon continues to run
with the other display being the master.
"I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
interconnected systems."- happened to a Glasair just this week. In his case
a reboot was missing after the upgrade but nevertheless, you are correct it
would crash the complete system.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Turner
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 1:14 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not
upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the
old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.
I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
interconnected systems.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360700#360700
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
If you want an autopilot that can stand alone, I'll put in a pitch for Trio.
I have no connection to the company, it's just that I see them as the 'little guy'
and I think competition with the big guys is a good thing. With their recent
price reduction they are very competitive.
I cannot vouch for their interface with AFS; but I have a GRT EFIS (HX) and it
interfaces perfectly with it. And, works fine in a stand-alone mode.
Of course like all these autopilots it can only follow a GPS signal, not an ILS
or VOR, in the stand alone mode.
If you decide to go this route be sure to order the auto pitch trim option. I use
this even when hand-flying (it can be used when the servos are off) for a very
fine pitch trim adjustment.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360722#360722
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT with
different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS units
and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP
as well.
Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP
stand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the
AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the
EFIS to command the AP. Works very well.
Jim C
N312F 300+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Hi Jim
My A/P is a TruTrak branded with the AFS logo. Is that different from yours.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-11, at 8:06 PM, Jim Combs wrote:
> I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT wit
h different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS unit
s and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP a
s well.
>
> Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP s
tand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the AP c
ouples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the EFIS to c
ommand the AP. Works very well.
>
> Jim C
> N312F 300+ hours
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Andrew Long" <along(at)aanet.com.au> |
Hi Jim,
Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability
(i.e. with it navigate alt as well as heading?)
My want.... is
basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed independant of the EFIS
should it fail (shounds like this does)and can be coupled to a
ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it does, just
clarifying..... :-)
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> I am flying the same configuration as
Les except I have the AFS AP (TT
> with
> different
software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS
>
units
> and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS
units and the AP
> as well.
>
> Holding the AP
Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP
> stand
alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the
> AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in
the
> EFIS to command the AP. Works very well.
>
> Jim C
> N312F 300+ hours
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Neither the TruTrak, nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an EFIS.
If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV approach without
an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course, to do this.
Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC interface to couple to them for the ILS.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Andrew Long" <along(at)aanet.com.au> |
Hi Bob,
But you can dial in altitude and heading and AP will
follow correct? Which means that it runs independantly. That is fine. I
would couple the Heading to the EFIS and the Garmin GPS with an ability to
uncouple as per your setup. Then I have an independant AP if all
else is lost that can manually be tuned in.
Do you know which
of the AP's from TruTrak and/OR AFS do this? Do they all?
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> -->
RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"
>
> Neither the TruTrak,
nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an
> EFIS.
> If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV
approach
> without an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course,
to do this.
>
> Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC
interface to couple to them for the ILS.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
Contribution link below to find out more about
Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
you for your generous support!
List Admin.
>
>
Features Navigator to browse
as List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
available via the Web Forums!
http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
generous support!
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Andrew
This manual show give you the info you want regarding the AFS ap.
http://www.trutrakap.com/documents/AFS%20Pilot%20Installation%20Manual.pdf
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Long <along(at)aanet.com.au>
Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:07 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> But you can dial in altitude and heading and AP will
> follow correct? Which means that it runs independantly. That is
> fine. I
> would couple the Heading to the EFIS and the Garmin GPS with an
> ability to
> uncouple as per your setup. Then I have an independant AP if all
> else is lost that can manually be tuned in.
>
> Do you know which
> of the AP's from TruTrak and/OR AFS do this? Do they all?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Long
> www.ozrv10.com
>
> > -->
>
> >
> > Neither the TruTrak,
> nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an
> > EFIS.
> > If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV
> approach
> > without an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course,
> to do this.
> >
> > Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC
> interface to couple to them for the ILS.
> >
> > --------
>
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
> Contribution link below to find out more about
> Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
>
> Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> Site:
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> you for your generous support!
> List Admin.
> >
> >
> Features Navigator to browse
> as List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> >
> available via the Web Forums!
> http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
> generous support!
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Save a few bucks on headsets |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
For those of you finishing up who need headsets, here is a money saving idea.
I just Bought a Bose QC-15 headset at the extra holiday savings deal of -10% or
$270. This is the headset that is sold to airline passengers, but there is an
add-on from UFlyMike, LLC that makes an after market mic for $225 + $7 shipping.
For $500 bucks total, you have a really cool and lightweight uber-noice-cancelling
headset. Plus the headset can still be used as a super nice headset
for music, air travel, etc.
There is no permanent mod to the headset, just plug in and go.
Might not fly as your primary headset, but sure makes for a great backup or co-pilot
headset. After flying in 152/172's with doggy D/C's my hearing is shot.
Whether you go this route or another, I cannot encourage you strongly enough to
get some good noise canceling headsets. Deafness only advantage is that you
can tell your wife that you didn't hear her !
--------
See you OSH '12
Q/B - flying 2 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360731#360731
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Andrew Long" <along(at)aanet.com.au> |
Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. Thanks.
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> --> RV10-List
message posted by: LES KEARNEY
>
>
> Andrew
>
> This manual show give you
the info you want regarding the AFS ap.
>
>
http://www.trutrakap.com/documents/AFS%20Pilot%20Installation%20Manual.pdf
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From:
Andrew Long
> Date: Sunday, December
11, 2011 10:07 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast
Stack Based Panel
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> But you can dial in altitude and heading and AP will
>> follow correct? Which means that it runs independantly. That is
>> fine. I
>> would couple the Heading to the EFIS
and the Garmin GPS with an
>> ability to
>>
uncouple as per your setup. Then I have an independant AP if all
>> else is lost that can manually be tuned in.
>>
>> Do you know which
>> of the AP's from TruTrak
and/OR AFS do this? Do they all?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrew Long
>> www.ozrv10.com
>>
>> > -->
"Bob Turner"
>>
>> >
>> > Neither the TruTrak,
>>
nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an
>> >
EFIS.
>> > If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they
will fly an LPV
>> approach
>> > without an
EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course,
>> to do this.
>> >
>> > Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC
>> interface to couple to them for the ILS.
>> >
>> > --------
>>
>> > Bob Turner
>> > RV-10 QB
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> >
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
>>
Contribution link below to find out more about
>> Terrific
Free Incentive Gifts provided
>>
>> Builder's
Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
>> www.homebuilthelp.com
>> Site:
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> you for your generous support!
>> List Admin.
>> >
>> >
>> Features Navigator to
browse
>> as List Un/Subscription,
>> 7-Day
Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>>
>>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> >
>> >
>> available via the Web Forums!
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> >
>>
>
>> generous support!
>> -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> >
>>
>
>>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
Contribution link below to find out more about
Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
you for your generous support!
List Admin.
>
>
Features Navigator to browse
as List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
available via the Web Forums!
http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
generous support!
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Not entirely true. The Trutrak Sourcerer has the capability. But whether
the additional expense is worth the added value is another discussion.
Check out the following table.
http://www.trutrakap.com/autopilot2_2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
Neither the TruTrak, nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an
EFIS.
If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV approach
without an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course, to do this.
Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC interface to couple to them for the ILS.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Save a few bucks on headsets |
Some vendors have been offering used Bose X headsets in about same price
range. Some folks have offered to sell their Bose X or Zulu headsets so
they can upgrade to the latest models.
On 12/11/2011 10:54 PM, AirMike wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike"
>
> For those of you finishing up who need headsets, here is a money saving idea.
I just Bought a Bose QC-15 headset at the extra holiday savings deal of -10%
or $270. This is the headset that is sold to airline passengers, but there is
an add-on from UFlyMike, LLC that makes an after market mic for $225 + $7 shipping.
For $500 bucks total, you have a really cool and lightweight uber-noice-cancelling
headset. Plus the headset can still be used as a super nice headset
for music, air travel, etc.
> There is no permanent mod to the headset, just plug in and go.
>
> Might not fly as your primary headset, but sure makes for a great backup or co-pilot
headset. After flying in 152/172's with doggy D/C's my hearing is shot.
Whether you go this route or another, I cannot encourage you strongly enough
to get some good noise canceling headsets. Deafness only advantage is that you
can tell your wife that you didn't hear her !
>
> --------
> See you OSH '12
> Q/B - flying 2 yrs.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360731#360731
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm34077(at)q.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
My TT VSGV has a switch (mine(AP signal source)) which allows (1) track and
pitch synchronization, altitude hold; (2) LNAV VNAV with the Cheltons and
(3) LNAV with the GRT Sport.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 8:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
If you want an autopilot that can stand alone, I'll put in a pitch for Trio.
I have no connection to the company, it's just that I see them as the
'little guy' and I think competition with the big guys is a good thing. With
their recent price reduction they are very competitive.
I cannot vouch for their interface with AFS; but I have a GRT EFIS (HX) and
it interfaces perfectly with it. And, works fine in a stand-alone mode.
Of course like all these autopilots it can only follow a GPS signal, not an
ILS or VOR, in the stand alone mode.
If you decide to go this route be sure to order the auto pitch trim option.
I use this even when hand-flying (it can be used when the servos are off)
for a very fine pitch trim adjustment.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360722#360722
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Save a few bucks on headsets |
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
I started flying with the Bose/UFlyMike setup several years ago while I was flying
for a living. First with the QC-2, and now with the QC-15. I have been very
happy with the combo. The UFlyMike microphone is very good quality. The only
heads up, is that when the single AAA battery goes dead, the headset is inop.
The battery lasts for forty or more hours. I change the battery once a month,
or prior to a long cross country. UFLyMike also sells a TSO'd model that includes
ear buds that you wear with the headset. Kind of a belt and suspenders approach,
but it removes the threat of battery failure causing lost commo. The QC-15
indicator light blinks on and off red when you turn it on, if the battery
is low. I read somewhere that it also gives some clicks or tones in the headset
with a low battery, but I don't know if that is correct.
The battery issue makes it a non-starter for some folks, but I am a long time user
that is very happy with the setup. It is comfortable, very light weight, and
great quality sound.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360753#360753
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Save a few bucks on headsets |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Lightspeed has an excellent "trade-up" program for factory direct purchases right now at http://www.lightspeedaviation.com
Their lightspeeds are great. The advantage of the Bose QC15 is that it gives you
a dual-use headset and it is very light. Might be a better choice for women
and kids who do not want a conventional heavy aviation headset with high clamping
force.
--------
See you OSH '12
Q/B - flying 2 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360756#360756
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
I also have a similar configuration using a pair of AFS, TT AFS AP, VP200
, etc. I have a switch next to the AFS TT AP that will switch ARINC inputs
from the AFS units to the GTN650 so in addition to the AP alt/hdg mode I c
an drive the AP directly from the GTN if I want.
Michael
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:17 PM, "Jim Combs" > wrote:
I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT with
different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS unit
s and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP
as well.
Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP st
and alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the AP
couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the EFIS t
o command the AP. Works very well.
Jim C
N312F 300+ hours
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
By itself no, but when coupled with the AFS efis or other ARINC input yes.
Michael
Sent from my iPad2
On Dec 11, 2011, at 10:26 PM, "Andrew Long" > wrote:
Hi Jim,
Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability (i.e. with it navigate a
lt as well as heading?)
My want.... is basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed independan
t of the EFIS should it fail (shounds like this does) and can be coupled to
a ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it does, just
clarifying..... :-)
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com<http://www.ozrv10.com>
> I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT
> with
> different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS
> units
> and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP
> as well.
>
> Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP
> stand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the
> AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the
> EFIS to command the AP. Works very well.
>
> Jim C
> N312F 300+ hours
>
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Andrew,
At the risk of being redundant, let me summarize. I am most familiar with the Trio
Pro since that's what I have, but I think the TT models function similarly.
1. If you have nothing but the autopilot - absolutely nothing else - then these
autopilots will attempt to hold the wings level but there may be a slow drift
in course, left or right. They won't really hold a course. The autopilot will
hold a commanded altitude; or, it will climb or descend at a commanded rate to
a designated altitude.
2. If you have a serial gps input to the autopilot (this can even be from most
battery operated handheld units), then the autopilot will hold a course (ground
track). It will also track the course entered into the gps. So you can do a
GPS LNAV approach by letting the autopilot track the course, while you manually
enter the desired altitude(s) to descend to, at the appropriate time(s).
3. If you have a WASS capable gps feeding the autopilot via an ARINC line, then
these autopilots will do a full GPS LPV approach on their own (you have to order
the GPSS/GPSV options for the autopilot).
4. If you feed the autopilot (which again has to have the GPSS/GPSV options) from
a compatible EFIS then it can do an ILS.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360773#360773
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | "Andrew Long" <along(at)aanet.com.au> |
Great summary thanks. I was just getting it, however, your explanation
made it clear.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
No I misread your note looks like we are both flying the AFS (TT) AP. It
works great stand alone or coupled to the EFIS unit (Via the ARINC)
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> Hi Jim
>
> My A/P is a TruTrak branded with the AFS logo. Is that different from
> yours.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2011-12-11, at 8:06 PM, Jim Combs wrote:
>
> I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT
> with different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS
> units and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and
> the AP as well.
>
> Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP
> stand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the
> AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the
> EFIS to command the AP. Works very well.
>
> Jim C
> N312F 300+ hours
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
No stand alone ILS/GPS approach capability for the AP. If you get into
that mode you have to fly the approach yourself. But having the AP fly the
airplane in case the EFIS units go south, is a benefit all by itself. The
GPS is providing the AP with heading, and airspeed information (and maybe
altitude?). Not sure if it is using the static port for altitude or the
data from the GPS. The AP will not allow a climb to go below a min
airspeed nor will it allow a descent to go above a max airspeed. Min and
max airspeed override a commanded climb or descent rate. These are
programmable via the AP setup (and via the AFS EFIS too).
So that is one reason I have a second $40 GPS receiver driving the AP and
co-pilot EFIS while the GNS430W GPS drives the pilot side EFIS. I can keep
power to the secondary GPS and the AP in the case of a power issue. I am
in the process of adding additional fuses for power. I had both EFIS units
on a single fuse (What the heck was I thinking?) and that caused an issue
on a flight. One of the other pilots found a supply of fuses with a
internal LED that glows when it blows. Makes identification much easier.
Jim C
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Andrew Long wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability (i.e. with it navigate
> alt as well as heading?)
>
> My want.... is basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed
> independant of the EFIS should it fail (shounds like this does) and can be
> coupled to a ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it
> does, just clarifying..... :-)
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Long
> www.ozrv10.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
The iPad works well as a knee pad in the '10. Specificallay, the knee
pad suggested by ForeFlight works very well.
The pad clears the stick quite well in normal flight. The 2/3 size
cover prevents your arm from inadvertently 'operating' the iPad, not
that it is much of a problem without such protection.
The conundrum is whether to use the 2/3 size cover to scratch paper for
freqs and clearances, or to use ForeFlight's scratchpad for writing
freqs (perhaps not long clearances). Since the 2/3 size cover is such
good protection, I'll just stick with paper and the scratch pad for now.
On 12/12/2011 2:37 PM, Albert Gardner wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner"
>
> Ever have a regret that there was something at Oshkosh you should have done
> but didn't do? I bought a ipad holder there from somebody but failed to get
> a necessary accessory. I bought a holder/shell with a manufacturers logo on
> it from "Vogel's" but they also had a small insert that allowed it to clamp
> onto a RAM mount I can't figure out where to get that accessory now - does
> anyone have any ideas on sources for it? I really like the holder/shell. It
> has a strap that comes with it that would allow it to become a kneeboard
> although I think the ipad is to large to be a kneeboard.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
That brings up an issue that I'd like to hear what people think about. As good
of an idea as it is to have the scratch pad in Foreflight, I have yet to find
it useful at all. When flying, I always use paper to write frequencies so I can
list them out as well as write the name of the center I am talking to and the
Baro that they gave me (and squawk code as applicable). The scratch pad is useless
in this type of application in my opinion. How many people use the scratch
pad in flight and how many use paper?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 13, 2011, at 2:11 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> The iPad works well as a knee pad in the '10. Specificallay, the knee pad suggested
by ForeFlight works very well.
>
> The pad clears the stick quite well in normal flight. The 2/3 size cover prevents
your arm from inadvertently 'operating' the iPad, not that it is much of
a problem without such protection.
>
> The conundrum is whether to use the 2/3 size cover to scratch paper for freqs
and clearances, or to use ForeFlight's scratchpad for writing freqs (perhaps
not long clearances). Since the 2/3 size cover is such good protection, I'll
just stick with paper and the scratch pad for now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
I use the scratch pad for several things....also nice to have a nice flat s
urface, which the ipad provides automatically.... certainly for-center fr
eqs, but also to keep up with the wind... it's direction and speed... as I'
m climbing... I level off at several altitudes, and scribble the alt, direc
tion and speed.- Also can make notes the day before of things I want to d
o or ck while flying the next day... so I think it's great.- Always had b
een a problem trying to find that pencil and paper in a hurry.=0ADon=0A =0A
=0A________________________________=0A From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviati
on.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7
:05 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: ipad Accessory=0A =0A--> RV10-List message
posted by: Jesse Saint =0A=0AThat brings up an is
sue that I'd like to hear what people think about. As good of an idea as it
is to have the scratch pad in Foreflight, I have yet to find it useful at
all. When flying, I always use paper to write frequencies so I can list the
m out as well as write the name of the center I am talking to and the Baro
that they gave me (and squawk code as applicable). The scratch pad is usele
ss in this type of application in my opinion. How many people use the scrat
ch pad in flight and how many use paper?=0A=0AJesse Saint=0ASaint Aviation,
Inc.=0Ajesse(at)saintaviation.com=0AC: 352-427-0285=0AF: 815-377-3694=0A=0AOn
Dec 13, 2011, at 2:11 AM, Bill Watson wrote:=0A=0A> --> RV10-List message
posted by: Bill Watson =0A> =0A> The iPad works well
as a knee pad in the '10.- Specificallay, the knee pad suggested by Fore
Flight works very well.=0A> =0A> The pad clears the stick quite well in nor
mal flight.- The 2/3 size cover prevents your arm from inadvertently 'ope
rating' the iPad, not that it is much of a problem without such protection.
=0A> =0A> The conundrum is whether to use the 2/3 size cover to scratch pap
er for freqs and clearances, or to use ForeFlight's scratchpad for writing
freqs (perhaps not long clearances).- Since the 2/3 size cover is such go
od protection, I'll just stick with paper and the scratch pad for now.=0A
======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
Paper for me.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
Jesse Saint wrote:
That brings up an issue that I'd like to hear what people think about. As g
ood of an idea as it is to have the scratch pad in Foreflight, I have yet t
o find it useful at all. When flying, I always use paper to write frequenci
es so I can list them out as well as write the name of the center I am talk
ing to and the Baro that they gave me (and squawk code as applicable). The
scratch pad is useless in this type of application in my opinion. How many
people use the scratch pad in flight and how many use paper?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Dec 13, 2011, at 2:11 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> The iPad works well as a knee pad in the '10. Specificallay, the knee pa
d suggested by ForeFlight works very well.
>
> The pad clears the stick quite well in normal flight. The 2/3 size cover
prevents your arm from inadvertently 'operating' the iPad, not that it is
much of a problem without such protection.
>
> The conundrum is whether to use the 2/3 size cover to scratch paper for f
reqs and clearances, or to use ForeFlight's scratchpad for writing freqs (p
erhaps not long clearances). Since the 2/3 size cover is such good protect
ion, I'll just stick with paper and the scratch pad for now.
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
Well, necessity can be the mother of discovery...
When I saw the scratch pad, my first thought was, "nice touch but won't
replace paper and pencil". Well, it won't but in fact, on my last
flight I found myself -naturally- using the scratch pad for freq
changes! The primary reason being that I haven't found a place to put
my pencil(s) yet.
Before I had an AP, having a pencil (and a backup pencil) attached to my
clipboard was essential. And in round gauge land, writing everything
down was equally essential. In that environment, pens weren't even
reliable enough.
In my current glassed over state, I've settled into 'writing' baro
changes directly into my GRT EFIS. I'm also writing altitude clearances
directlyl into the EFIS (though I miss the little stick-on pointer I
used to use on my round altimeter but in the end, it didn't drive an AP
or otherwise remind me to level off at the right time). I'm still
writing most vectors on paper (or the scratch pad) but I'm not sure why
- maybe the small size of the heading display on the GRT.
What's left are multi-part clearances, which absolutely get written on
paper, and routine freq changes which still get written but I find
myself naturally using the scratchpad if I don't have a pencil in my
hand. I didn't expect that.
So right now, I'm keeping pencils and pens on the left side wall where
they can be accessed but not accessed unconciously. Given that
situation, I'm naturally deciding to use the scratch pad for freq changes.
In addition, the scratch pad has a keyboard input option too. It's
actually 2 scratch pads - one for hand scritching and one for keyboard.
Clearing one doesn't clear the other. So for fuel data at fuel stops
and other in flight notes that I want to retain, I'm keying into the
scratch pad for later reference. A nice feature.
So, the scratch pad has become a part of my 'system'. On my last
flight, my paper scratch had had some throw away freqs on it, and so did
my iPad scratch pad. The keyed in scratch pad will be copied into a
spreadsheet later today. Nice feature!
I know if I fabricate a pencil holder for my knee board, I'll go back to
pencil and paper exclusively so I'm going to hold off on that for awhile
and see how paperless I can get.
Bill "loving my AP" Watson
GRT EFIS, TT AP, G430W
On 12/13/2011 8:05 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint
>
> That brings up an issue that I'd like to hear what people think about. As good
of an idea as it is to have the scratch pad in Foreflight, I have yet to find
it useful at all. When flying, I always use paper to write frequencies so I
can list them out as well as write the name of the center I am talking to and
the Baro that they gave me (and squawk code as applicable). The scratch pad is
useless in this type of application in my opinion. How many people use the scratch
pad in flight and how many use paper?
>
> Jesse Saint
>
>
> The conundrum is whether to use the 2/3 size cover to scratch paper for freqs
and clearances, or to use ForeFlight's scratchpad for writing freqs (perhaps
not long clearances). Since the 2/3 size cover is such good protection, I'll
just stick with paper and the scratch pad for now.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Jim,
If you put in a selector switch you can switch the ARINC to a second sourc
e such as a 430 or 650 and it will take GPSS/GPSV commands like the regular
TT DII VSGV independent of the AFS EFIS. The fuses you are referring to a
very handy and can be found in pretty much any auto parts store now.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
No stand alone ILS/GPS approach capability for the AP. If you get into tha
t mode you have to fly the approach yourself. But having the AP fly the ai
rplane in case the EFIS units go south, is a benefit all by itself. The GP
S is providing the AP with heading, and airspeed information (and maybe alt
itude?). Not sure if it is using the static port for altitude or the data
from the GPS. The AP will not allow a climb to go below a min airspeed nor
will it allow a descent to go above a max airspeed. Min and max airspeed o
verride a commanded climb or descent rate. These are programmable via the
AP setup (and via the AFS EFIS too).
So that is one reason I have a second $40 GPS receiver driving the AP and c
o-pilot EFIS while the GNS430W GPS drives the pilot side EFIS. I can keep
power to the secondary GPS and the AP in the case of a power issue. I am i
n the process of adding additional fuses for power. I had both EFIS units
on a single fuse (What the heck was I thinking?) and that caused an issue o
n a flight. One of the other pilots found a supply of fuses with a interna
l LED that glows when it blows. Makes identification much easier.
Jim C
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Andrew Long > wrote:
Hi Jim,
Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability (i.e. with it navigate a
lt as well as heading?)
My want.... is basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed independan
t of the EFIS should it fail (shounds like this does) and can be coupled to
a ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it does, just
clarifying..... :-)
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com<http://www.ozrv10.com>
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
| From: | "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
For VFR or common IFR routes that I normally do I don't write anything down. I
feed the instruments as they speak with emer power on jets and backup power on
my RV-10. I do have the ipad handy if I need to scratch something down.
For IFR routes I normally don't fly I use the paper print out from fltplan.com.
I write down the ATIS on the bottom and the clearance right next to the planned
clearance. This way I have everything on one piece pf paper. It also has
the times, fuel burn, etc. It even states if RAIM is available throughout the
entire route.
--------
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360837#360837
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
I have the switch installed.
Per some older schematics. The new schematics do not show the switch.
Jim C
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:13 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <
rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> wrote:
> Jim,****
>
> ** **
>
> If you put in a selector switch you can switch the ARINC to a second
> source such as a 430 or 650 and it will take GPSS/GPSV commands like the
> regular TT DII VSGV independent of the AFS EFIS. The fuses you are
> referring to a very handy and can be found in pretty much any auto parts
> store now.****
>
> ** **
>
> Michael****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Combs
> *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2011 7:28 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel****
>
> ** **
>
> No stand alone ILS/GPS approach capability for the AP. If you get into
> that mode you have to fly the approach yourself. But having the AP fly the
> airplane in case the EFIS units go south, is a benefit all by itself. The
> GPS is providing the AP with heading, and airspeed information (and maybe
> altitude?). Not sure if it is using the static port for altitude or the
> data from the GPS. The AP will not allow a climb to go below a min
> airspeed nor will it allow a descent to go above a max airspeed. Min and
> max airspeed override a commanded climb or descent rate. These are
> programmable via the AP setup (and via the AFS EFIS too).
>
> So that is one reason I have a second $40 GPS receiver driving the AP and
> co-pilot EFIS while the GNS430W GPS drives the pilot side EFIS. I can keep
> power to the secondary GPS and the AP in the case of a power issue. I am
> in the process of adding additional fuses for power. I had both EFIS units
> on a single fuse (What the heck was I thinking?) and that caused an issue
> on a flight. One of the other pilots found a supply of fuses with a
> internal LED that glows when it blows. Makes identification much easier.
>
> Jim C
>
> ****
>
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Andrew Long wrote:*
> ***
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability (i.e. with it navigate
> alt as well as heading?)
>
> My want.... is basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed
> independant of the EFIS should it fail (shounds like this does) and can be
> coupled to a ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it
> does, just clarifying..... :-)
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Long
> www.ozrv10.com ****
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> ==============**** sts This Month --**** And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> **** ick on**** t**** d**** aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com****
> http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com**** .homebuilthelp.com
> ">www.homebuilthelp.com**** bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> *** b> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.**** =============
> **** V10-List Email Forum -**** > :p> /o:p> tor?RV10-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List**** ==============****nbsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> **** :p> tp://forums.matronics.com**** ==============**** bsp; - List
> Contribution Web Site -**** e> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List
> Admin.**** bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution****=============
> ****
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
OK, I found the source for my ipad accessory as well as a lot of other stuff
for ipad's such as RAM mounts, Bad Elf gps, ipad stuff. Prices look ok and
they had what I badly needed. As I said I had purchased the shell and carry
bag at OSK but couldn't remember who from. I'm experimenting with a center
console mount for the ipad.
http://www.mygoflight.com
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
INteresting discussion, as one who still flies an aircraft with steam
gauges and only a wing leveler. Frequency changes are dialed into standby
on either com radio, heading is set with HSI heading bug, altitude is
written down, as are any changes to FP route, squawk is dialed into
transponder..........all of the above when in the air. On the ground
getting clearance, I have FP clearance written in sequence, so that I only
have to note changes, altitude, heading and squawk. All on paper. Gives
some ideas how the -10 glass panel with no steam gauges routine will differ.
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Well, necessity can be the mother of discovery...
>
> When I saw the scratch pad, my first thought was, "nice touch but won't
> replace paper and pencil". Well, it won't but in fact, on my last flight I
> found myself -naturally- using the scratch pad for freq changes! The
> primary reason being that I haven't found a place to put my pencil(s) yet.
>
> Before I had an AP, having a pencil (and a backup pencil) attached to my
> clipboard was essential. And in round gauge land, writing everything down
> was equally essential. In that environment, pens weren't even reliable
> enough.
>
> In my current glassed over state, I've settled into 'writing' baro changes
> directly into my GRT EFIS. I'm also writing altitude clearances directlyl
> into the EFIS (though I miss the little stick-on pointer I used to use on
> my round altimeter but in the end, it didn't drive an AP or otherwise
> remind me to level off at the right time). I'm still writing most vectors
> on paper (or the scratch pad) but I'm not sure why - maybe the small size
> of the heading display on the GRT.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
All our flying has been VFR so far...
In our plane the FO has complete control of the ipad, and she uses the
scratch pad for her notes, and maps to follow position, airport data,
etc.
The captain uses a conventional kneeboard and note pad. It works out
well; she is able to keep the data she wants - tach times, etc. Helps a
lot with "what altitude did he say?" kind of stuff, too. I'm told that
the iPad is essential equipment, (even though much of the info is
available on the EFISes).
On Dec 13, 2011, at 1:40 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> INteresting discussion, as one who still flies an aircraft with steam
gauges and only a wing leveler. Frequency changes are dialed into
standby on either com radio, heading is set with HSI heading bug,
altitude is written down, as are any changes to FP route, squawk is
dialed into transponder..........all of the above when in the air. On
the ground getting clearance, I have FP clearance written in sequence,
so that I only have to note changes, altitude, heading and squawk. All
on paper. Gives some ideas how the -10 glass panel with no steam gauges
routine will differ.
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Bill Watson
wrote:
>
> Well, necessity can be the mother of discovery...
>
> When I saw the scratch pad, my first thought was, "nice touch but
won't replace paper and pencil". Well, it won't but in fact, on my last
flight I found myself -naturally- using the scratch pad for freq
changes! The primary reason being that I haven't found a place to put
my pencil(s) yet.
>
> Before I had an AP, having a pencil (and a backup pencil) attached to
my clipboard was essential. And in round gauge land, writing everything
down was equally essential. In that environment, pens weren't even
reliable enough.
>
> In my current glassed over state, I've settled into 'writing' baro
changes directly into my GRT EFIS. I'm also writing altitude clearances
directlyl into the EFIS (though I miss the little stick-on pointer I
used to use on my round altimeter but in the end, it didn't drive an AP
or otherwise remind me to level off at the right time). I'm still
writing most vectors on paper (or the scratch pad) but I'm not sure why
- maybe the small size of the heading display on the GRT.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
| From: | "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> |
I think there is a great opportunity for a new feature or app. For the most part
as your chugging along you just get handed off from frequency to frequency.
The hardest part can be just understanding the name of the next place youre
being handed off to. It would be really cool if I had an app that would look
at my current position, altitude, and direction of flight and give me a short
list of what frequency (and name) I could expect next. I know going into an airport
it is really nice to have a heads up and all of the radios tuned, we are
able to do this because we have plates which tell us all of the frequencies
in order. Too bad we cant have this same thing in the air as we cross from center
to center.
I see it as a list of potential next frequencies and names with a check box next
to each one, once I am given the next frequency I check the box, it gets added
to the list and the next set of potential frequencies are dynamically listed.
Oh yea, if it makes you feel better you could also put a spinner box there
for the current barometer. Just a thought.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360902#360902
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
Some of the EFIS's show nearest ATC. My G3X shows it from the nearest menu.
I use this a lot if I'm using flight following in the west and check-on or
off with the new centers. It states the name of the facility and frequency.
Also, in the info area I have closest barometer as one of my selections so
it is constantly updating as I'm flying cross-country.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 6:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: ipad Accessory
>
>
> I think there is a great opportunity for a new feature or app. For the
> most part as your chugging along you just get handed off from frequency to
> frequency. The hardest part can be just understanding the name of the
> next place you?Tre being handed off to. It would be really cool if I had
> an app that would look at my current position, altitude, and direction of
> flight and give me a short list of what frequency (and name) I could
> expect next. I know going into an airport it is really nice to have a
> heads up and all of the radios tuned, we are able to do this because we
> have plates which tell us all of the frequencies in order. Too bad we
> can?Tt have this same thing in the air as we cross from center to center.
>
> I see it as a list of potential next frequencies and names with a check
> box next to each one, once I am given the next frequency I check the box,
> it gets added to the list and the next set of potential frequencies are
> dynamically listed. Oh yea, if it makes you feel better you could also
> put a spinner box there for the current barometer. Just a thought?.
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360902#360902
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
I was going to say the same thing. I often hit NRST - ATC and
try to pre-load the next handoff. And I also do NRST - WX and
keep the altimeter updated. None of this is on the iPad side,
but the EFIS side, so there are good tools out there that
help. And, even though I do GPS direct much of the time, I
still load NRST - VOR and try to keep one tuned in on X/C
flights because if you decide to call and report position or
use FlightWatch, you'll want to report your position in relation
to a VOR...and that way I can have the mileage-to handy.
Tim
On 12/14/2011 7:41 AM, Seano wrote:
>
> Some of the EFIS's show nearest ATC. My G3X shows it from the nearest
> menu. I use this a lot if I'm using flight following in the west and
> check-on or off with the new centers. It states the name of the facility
> and frequency.
>
> Also, in the info area I have closest barometer as one of my selections
> so it is constantly updating as I'm flying cross-country.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jkreidler"
>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 6:18 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: ipad Accessory
>
>
>>
>>
>> I think there is a great opportunity for a new feature or app. For the
>> most part as your chugging along you just get handed off from
>> frequency to frequency. The hardest part can be just understanding the
>> name of the next place you?Tre being handed off to. It would be
>> really cool if I had an app that would look at my current position,
>> altitude, and direction of flight and give me a short list of what
>> frequency (and name) I could expect next. I know going into an airport
>> it is really nice to have a heads up and all of the radios tuned, we
>> are able to do this because we have plates which tell us all of the
>> frequencies in order. Too bad we can?Tt have this same thing in the
>> air as we cross from center to center.
>>
>> I see it as a list of potential next frequencies and names with a
>> check box next to each one, once I am given the next frequency I check
>> the box, it gets added to the list and the next set of potential
>> frequencies are dynamically listed. Oh yea, if it makes you feel
>> better you could also put a spinner box there for the current
>> barometer. Just a thought?.
>>
>> --------
>> Jason Kreidler
>> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
>> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
>> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360902#360902
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
| From: | "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> |
Yup - your both right, the data is available by other means (it is also on the
charts). I was thinking of this more from the standpoint of building a log of
frequencies used. Often on a return flight following the same path you can just
invert you previous paper log and know what to expect. Or of you do the same
flight again and again, having a log keeps you ahead of the game by knowing
what to expect. After all, you never want the airplane to arrive anywhere unless
your head beat it there by a few minutes.
Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360908#360908
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
The difficulty of making this work is that both centers and approach
control combine and de-combine sectors depending on traffic and staffing,
so while the frequency for a give sector is relatively static, it may
change. On the other and IFR Low Enroute charts do give you the published
frequency for center in a given area and do show the center boundaries.
However it isn't unusual for a remote outlet to have a couple frequencies
where that outlet is near a sector boundary, and each sector will use one
of the frequencies..you get to guess which one is right for the direction
you are headed.
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Seano wrote:
>
> Some of the EFIS's show nearest ATC. My G3X shows it from the nearest
> menu. I use this a lot if I'm using flight following in the west and
> check-on or off with the new centers. It states the name of the facility
> and frequency.
>
> Also, in the info area I have closest barometer as one of my selections s
o
> it is constantly updating as I'm flying cross-country.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jkreidler" <
> jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.**com >
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 6:18 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: ipad Accessory
>
>
.
>> **com >
>>
>> I think there is a great opportunity for a new feature or app. For the
>> most part as your chugging along you just get handed off from frequency
to
>> frequency. The hardest part can be just understanding the name of the n
ext
>> place you?Tre being handed off to. It would be really cool if I had
an
>> app that would look at my current position, altitude, and direction of
>> flight and give me a short list of what frequency (and name) I could exp
ect
>> next. I know going into an airport it is really nice to have a heads up
>> and all of the radios tuned, we are able to do this because we have plat
es
>> which tell us all of the frequencies in order. Too bad we can?Tt hav
e
>> this same thing in the air as we cross from center to center.
>>
>> I see it as a list of potential next frequencies and names with a check
>> box next to each one, once I am given the next frequency I check the box
,
>> it gets added to the list and the next set of potential frequencies are
>> dynamically listed. Oh yea, if it makes you feel better you could also
put
>> a spinner box there for the current barometer. Just a thought?.
>>
>> --------
>> Jason Kreidler
>> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
>> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
>> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=360902#360902
ums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360902#360902>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
=====**===================
===========**=
com/contribution>
=====**===================
===========**=
ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
=====**===================
===========**=
=====**===================
===========**=
com/contribution>
=====**===================
===========**=
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
Different strokes...
I have to admit to making little or no effort to anticipate enroute freq
changes (or altimeter settings). Flying the same route a couple of
times, it's amazing how well you can recall stuff, making it easier on
repeat visits.
When things get busy, I focus on the freq and don't worry about picking
up the facility name - if I miss it, "approach" or "center" gets the job
done.
The hardest time to figure out who to call is leaving an uncontrolled
airport in the boonies with the intent of picking up a previously filed
plan in the air. NRST center or approach works but it may take 1 or
more changes before the right ATC facility is engaged. The trick is to
retain the last freq before you land - that usually works the first time.
I try to file direct 100% but 50% of my flying is up against the east
coast where direct IFR is almost impossible around NYC, DC, and the FL
coast. It's still very much airways (!!) and VORs. ForeFlight on the
iPad shines here because I put the clearance directly into the iPad,
then view it on the low enroute chart and translate it into waypoints on
the G430.
e.g. 8NC8 PXT V16 DIXIE RBV JERYY V249 SAX KPN
That was a recent clearance I got in the air. I used to be able to eat
that in the soup while hand flying.... not sure I'm up to that right
now. I know I'll never choose to do that again without an AP.
I'm in the habit of putting the first half of the flight in the G430 and
then just a few waypoints for the 2nd half knowing that things will
change enroute. NYC Tracon will try to cut every corner and straighten
out the flight once there, but the original clearance will be
circuitous. JAX center manages the busy coastal interstate using
airways and altitudes to keep things separate but once the thunder
bumpers get started it's all about deviations to stay out of the clouds
with a lot of VFR traffic mixed in (I really need some traffic
capability, com'on NavWorx!)
Outside of those areas, it's just file direct and often the only ATC
question is "what's your on course heading for that?".
I'm not in the habit of backing myself up by tuning VORs but know I
should. Not using Flight Watch much anymore I guess because it seems
easier to use the on board weather to get the long range picture. But I
haven't really flown in any serious weather for quite awhile so we'll
see how that works. Frankly, XM weather on my G396 was better than XM
on my GRTs but I'm holding my breath until I get ADS-B installed and
then see where I'm at.
Bill "still needing a lot of proficiency work to get up to spec in the
system" Watson
On 12/14/2011 9:03 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I was going to say the same thing. I often hit NRST - ATC and
> try to pre-load the next handoff. And I also do NRST - WX and
> keep the altimeter updated. None of this is on the iPad side,
> but the EFIS side, so there are good tools out there that
> help. And, even though I do GPS direct much of the time, I
> still load NRST - VOR and try to keep one tuned in on X/C
> flights because if you decide to call and report position or
> use FlightWatch, you'll want to report your position in relation
> to a VOR...and that way I can have the mileage-to handy.
> Tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
On 12/14/2011 9:32 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> The hardest time to figure out who to call is leaving an uncontrolled
> airport in the boonies with the intent of picking up a previously filed
> plan in the air. NRST center or approach works but it may take 1 or more
> changes before the right ATC facility is engaged. The trick is to retain
> the last freq before you land - that usually works the first time.
>
Or to look at the approach plate...the freq used there is
likely the one you'll need.
> Outside of those areas, it's just file direct and often the only ATC
> question is "what's your on course heading for that?".
>
I haven't flown IFR out East, but in all my travels, it's been
rare that I can't go direct, so it's been great. I just don't
try to do it around the major metro areas. When I have, they've
often just vectored me around places like KATL and KMSP though
to their liking.
> I'm not in the habit of backing myself up by tuning VORs but know I
> should. Not using Flight Watch much anymore I guess because it seems
> easier to use the on board weather to get the long range picture. But I
> haven't really flown in any serious weather for quite awhile so we'll
> see how that works. Frankly, XM weather on my G396 was better than XM on
> my GRTs but I'm holding my breath until I get ADS-B installed and then
> see where I'm at.
>
> Bill "still needing a lot of proficiency work to get up to spec in the
> system" Watson
>
My personal prediction is that even once someone gets ADS-B installed,
they'll prefer XM/WSI to ADS-B weather if they're a serious
x/c flier. I don't believe the coverage will be as good down
low and especially pre-takeoff, I think it'll leave people
with a lot to be desired. I remember on one of my trips
back from the Bahamas, if I hadn't seen the WSI picture
on the ground, I'd have cancelled the takeoff and trip.
But seeing it gave me the ability to know exactly how I
was going to route around a big cell as soon as I took off, and
get out of the area. With ADS-B you'd spend more time
worrying when you don't have coverage. So Satellite based
systems will always have a place, for the serious x/c
traveler. I spend very little time doing local flights, so
to me, in-flight WX is probably second to none in the
glass-cockpit capability I need.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
On 12/14/2011 11:06 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> On 12/14/2011 9:32 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
>> The hardest time to figure out who to call is leaving an uncontrolled
>> airport in the boonies with the intent of picking up a previously filed
>> plan in the air. NRST center or approach works but it may take 1 or more
>> changes before the right ATC facility is engaged. The trick is to retain
>> the last freq before you land - that usually works the first time.
>>
>
> Or to look at the approach plate...the freq used there is
> likely the one you'll need.
Yep, another advantage of having -all- the plates easily accessed on the
iPad
>
>
> My personal prediction is that even once someone gets ADS-B installed,
> they'll prefer XM/WSI to ADS-B weather if they're a serious
> x/c flier. I don't believe the coverage will be as good down
> low and especially pre-takeoff, I think it'll leave people
> with a lot to be desired. I remember on one of my trips
> back from the Bahamas, if I hadn't seen the WSI picture
> on the ground, I'd have cancelled the takeoff and trip.
> But seeing it gave me the ability to know exactly how I
> was going to route around a big cell as soon as I took off, and
> get out of the area. With ADS-B you'd spend more time
> worrying when you don't have coverage. So Satellite based
> systems will always have a place, for the serious x/c
> traveler. I spend very little time doing local flights, so
> to me, in-flight WX is probably second to none in the
> glass-cockpit capability I need.
>
Tim, can you say a bit more about ADS-B weather? I'm not at all clear
on how that works but it sounds like on the ground you can't get a
complete picture? Or no picture at all? Weather coverage for only a
limited area?
Bill
BTW - concerning IFR around NYC - often the best technique is to cancel
IFR, then ask for vectors, or stay out of the Class B and just tell them
what you are going to do. You definitely get the sense that the
controllers would often suggest cancellation that if they could but I
don't think they can. J Mac used to write a lot about the frustration
of getting into KHPN from the south.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
>>
> Tim, can you say a bit more about ADS-B weather? I'm not at all clear on
> how that works but it sounds like on the ground you can't get a complete
> picture? Or no picture at all? Weather coverage for only a limited area?
>
> Bill
>
The short answer is basically that since it's all ground tower
based, you won't have reception at low low altitudes in all
areas. I think the basic guarantee is that they're going
to cover XX % of the U.S. at an altitude of 5000 feet or
above. There will be many many areas that work fine
at 1000' AGL. There will be some that work on the ground, too.
But in general, unless there is a GBT (Tower) on your airport,
you will be unlikely to get signal until you're at least off
the ground a little....and in some areas, it may be up to
5000'. At my home airport, it's about 1000' right now.
So, strategic pre-takeoff planning can be difficult unless
you use some 3G service on your iPad, and you may find
that you have various areas where you don't get coverage
in the U.S.
Also, I've found on a few trips that due to icing, the flight
wasn't really "completeable" if you climbed, but by staying
below an overcast at 1000' with 20 mile viz, you could stay
out of the moisture and do fine. I've navigated around
lines of weather and done the "run south 'til you're
past the line and then cut West" thing a few times. It wasn't
quite scud running, because you had good viz. But it's
the same concept. When you are in those situations you
really want to have the WX picture, but if you aren't
going to have reception until 2000' in your area, your
options become limited. To me, you need WX info nearly
100% of the time on days when WX is a factor...and
you'd need it 120% of the time on days when you
really have to work your way around the wx. Sadly,
those are the days that ADS-B may not take good enough
care of you.
Where I see a huge value is for people who have XM/WSI on
one device, but want "free" wx on their EFIS. Having WX
displayed directly on your EFIS is a huge plus. So if you
have a 396, you're doing good. But adding ADS-B on your
EFIS would be better.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
This is old new for those that read AvWeb today, but since I
haven't heard anyone mention what happened at the Dec. 13
meeting, I thought I'd post the latest here. Sounds
eggspensive.
Tim
------------------------------------------------------
FAA AeroNav Meeting: Radically Higher Prices for Digital Charting
Proposed (Updated)
The FAA's AeroNav charting division told vendors this week that it
proposes to charge end users of digital charting producers about $150 a
year to close a $5 million shortfall in its budget due to declining
paper chart sales. The new fee, if adopted, would presumably more than
double the cost of some popular iPad and Droid applications such as
ForeFlight and WingX. Plus, vendors selling through Apple's application
channels would face additional charges. "To me, it's pretty clear that
these prices are a non-starter. I know pilots aren't going to pay $150
for these products without screaming about it," one vendor told us.
And because AeroNav's incremental pricing favors large-volume vendors
over smaller ones, the pricing change may effectively kill smaller
application writers and/or free sites that offer FAA charting products
as a convenience for users. That might include DUATs contractors, which
offer free charts on the two sites.
Moreover, the FAA told about 70 vendors that as paper sales continue to
decline, the FAA charges for digital charting products are likely to
increase in order to cover fixed overhead costs. The agency also assured
the vendors that it would not be developing any apps or other products
to compete with them.
Tuesday's meeting, which was closed to the public and press, had been
billed as an information gathering session so the AeroNav group could
reach pricing that worked for everyone. Based on conversations with
several vendors, we would say reaction to the FAA's proposals were mixed
at best. "The FAA did a remarkably good job in soliciting opinion," one
vendor told us, "I'm actually fairly hopeful." Mark Spenser of
Avilution, a newer aviation app for Android, says he's not sure he'll
stay in the business if the FAA's proposed charges are adopted. "It's
too early to tell," he said. The FAA also realizes there will have to be
some other structure for websites that display charts, like FltPlan.com
or RunwayFinder. Dave Parsons of RunwayFinder told us, "I won't be able
to do it for even a dollar a user [per year]."
The assembled vendors were told that the FAA will announce a detailed
proposal by mid-January and the new charges will go into effect in
April, 2012. But one of the participants we spoke to on Wednesday said
that timeline is "totally unrealistic." He expressed further skepticism
that the FAA made its case the its economics justify such steep price
increases. Several vendors we spoke to told us there wasn't much give
and take and that AeroNav presented their price structure in a way that
suggested little flexibility. Michael Wolf, president of Sporty's, told
us Wednesday that he remained unconvinced that AeroNav had made a
legitimate effort to close its budget shortfall by cutting its expenses.
As for the new prices, vendors questioned how the agency arrived at its
numbers. The FAA seems to have grossly underestimated the number of
potential users, vendors told us. They told the assembled vendors that
the $150/year number was based on their estimated number of users
divided into the $5 million shortfall. But that's only about 33,000
users. Vendors tell us the real number is more than 100,000. That may be
good news for driving down the final price for subscriptions eventually,
but for the short term, it means higher costs for vendors. It's also
true that bigger companies will have the right to resell charts to
start-ups, who might want only single-updates or charts for a specific
area of the country to trim costs. However there might be an inherent
conflict of interest in doing so.
Bigger companies also will have an edge as the proposed pricing is
regressive: For example, a vendor with up to 100 customers would pay
$250 per customer, while one with up to 1,500 might pay $120. There was
also a flat-fee proposal where zero to 100 customers would be
$25,000/year, 100 to 250 would be $50,000/year and so on. It's unclear
which of those options might go into effect, but AeroNav told the
vendors the prices proposed are in a general range.
When asked if AeroNav could make up the $5 million by reducing its
expenses, FAA officials said no, although budget relief from Congress
might be an option. FAA officials deflected several specific questions
about AeroNav's budgeting and costs, which Sporty's Wolf told us he
thinks they will need to do.
In addressing the group, Fred Anderson, AeroNav's director of products,
told the vendors that the FAA has always charged user fees for charting
products, dating to the 1920s, when the government was authorized by
Congress to collect fees limited to paper and printing. The current law
allows AeroNav to charge for printing and distribution, but also for
management of databases used for chart preparation. It cannot charge for
the acquisition or distribution of flight data required to make charts.
Heretofore, AeroNav has charged a nominal fee for digital chart data it
sold on DVDs. It has also allowed all comers to download the digital
data at no charge, an arrangement that made attractive economics for
some application writers. Vendor costs for the DVD have been on the
order of $200 a year, but with no end user limitations, they amortize
this over hundreds or thousands of customers.
AeroNav also proposed that vendors will be required to become chart
sales agents and will be subject to audit by AeroNav to confirm they're
charging customers correctly, which will cost vendors -- and customers
-- yet more money. Vendors told us the FAA hopes to finalize its
pricing, contractual agreement and other issues brought up in today's
meeting by early January. We'll gauge pilot reaction after the numbers
are finalized.
On Tuesday, the FAA did not return our request for comment by our
deadline, but spokesman Laura Brown said Wednesday the agency would
respond to detailed queries for follow-up stories later this week.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eagerlee" <eagerlee(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ipad Accessory |
it's keyboard scratchpad on Foreflight for my notes. Flight plan and
clearances are copy/paste into the scratchpad. Squack codes, altitudes,
frequencies, ATC identities are all entered with the iPad touch
keyboard. I carry the iPad on my conventional kneeboard which has a
paper/pencil supply but as yet not needed.
PH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now
that I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally get
some time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! :D).
Feedback has been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS system
from Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps
They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position
during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way to
incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps
instead of going straight to reflex.
At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of
have to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which
isn't ideal in a go-around situation.
I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or touch-n-goes.
Jae
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Not to make it simpler than it really is....I just put the switch up and fly
the plane. I don't see that much difference in the climb performance....at
least not enough to warrant trying to get the flaps to 0....
I like the FPS, think it works great and have no plans to change it in the
future. But with that said, if something else came along that would reduce
a couple of failure points....I might think about it.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 10:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner
Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now
that I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally get
some time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! :D).
Feedback has been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS system
from Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps
They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position
during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way to
incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps
instead of going straight to reflex.
At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of
have to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which
isn't ideal in a go-around situation.
I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or touch-n-goes.
Jae
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
| From: | Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com> |
I just put the flaps all the way up and forget about it. The motor is slow
enough and the airplane powerful enough that it really doesn't matter.
A bigger issue for me on T&Gs is moving the elevator trim, when I'm at a
forward CG. The trim motor is painfully slow, and combined with the safety
trim (which only gives you a couple seconds of trim at a time), it takes a
long time to get retrimmed. I wouldn't want the trim motor any faster,
though, for cruise trim. Maybe I'll finally set up that dual-speed thing.
-Rob
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Jae Chang wrote:
>
> Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now that
> I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally get some
> time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! :D). Feedback has
> been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS system from
> Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/**cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=**
> airframe&product=fps<http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps>
>
> They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position
> during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way to
> incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps instead
> of going straight to reflex.
>
> At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of have
> to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which isn't ideal
> in a go-around situation.
>
> I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or
> touch-n-goes.
>
> Jae
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Same here...I just flip it up and hit the power. The RV-10 has
so much power that even with full flaps you'll get off the ground
and then you'll be climbing out in no time. With dual speed
trim, the flap motor is slow enough and the trim fast enough
when down low and slow that the trim isn't a huge issue either
as long as you're paying attention and trimming. For people who
are behind the airplane a lot, transitioning from slower
aircraft, it make take some adjustment...but for someone who
flies the RV-10 as their plane, it's just 2nd nature.
I wouldn't want a system that stops on the way up...I want it
all the way to reflex when I lift them.
Tim
On 12/15/2011 12:10 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker"
>
> Not to make it simpler than it really is....I just put the switch up and fly
> the plane. I don't see that much difference in the climb performance....at
> least not enough to warrant trying to get the flaps to 0....
>
> I like the FPS, think it works great and have no plans to change it in the
> future. But with that said, if something else came along that would reduce
> a couple of failure points....I might think about it.
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
I second Tim and Rene's statements. I really like that setup. Works great
Geoff Combs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner
Same here...I just flip it up and hit the power. The RV-10 has so much
power that even with full flaps you'll get off the ground and then you'll be
climbing out in no time. With dual speed trim, the flap motor is slow
enough and the trim fast enough when down low and slow that the trim isn't a
huge issue either as long as you're paying attention and trimming. For
people who are behind the airplane a lot, transitioning from slower
aircraft, it make take some adjustment...but for someone who flies the RV-10
as their plane, it's just 2nd nature.
I wouldn't want a system that stops on the way up...I want it all the way to
reflex when I lift them.
Tim
On 12/15/2011 12:10 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker"
>
> Not to make it simpler than it really is....I just put the switch up
> and fly the plane. I don't see that much difference in the climb
> performance....at least not enough to warrant trying to get the flaps to
0....
>
> I like the FPS, think it works great and have no plans to change it in
> the future. But with that said, if something else came along that
> would reduce a couple of failure points....I might think about it.
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
I like it, or at least don't feel any need for change. Apply power,
raise flaps, say 'bye.
The only time I use 0 and the first notch of flaps is to slow it down
for landing. I have been using full flaps for all landings.
The only time FPS is inconvenient is before takeoff. I land with full
flaps and keep them down for exit and entry. Before takeoff, I have to
either let them come all the way up, then bring them down, or time it on
the way down.
I do have the 2 speed trim installed. I assume it has been working and
have had no reason to change anything. Will have to pay attention and
see if I can detect it's operation.
Bill "loves flying behind the big fan" Watson
On 12/15/2011 12:39 PM, Jae Chang wrote:
>
> Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it reminded me of an issue. Now
> that I am out of phase one, it has been great letting others finally
> get some time in my plane (a plane that i built in my own garage! :D).
> Feedback has been great except everyone seems to dislike the FPS
> system from Vans/Showplanes, which I think is common in a lot of builds.
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=airframe&product=fps
>
>
> They dont like how the flaps retract straight to the reflex position
> during a go-around or touch and goes. They would prefer an easier way
> to incrementally or selectively choose half-flaps or zero degree flaps
> instead of going straight to reflex.
>
> At this point, if you want to select half flaps or zero, you sort of
> have to baby sit the flaps switch while watching its position, which
> isn't ideal in a go-around situation.
>
> I was curious what your methods are for flaps in go-arounds or
> touch-n-goes.
>
> Jae
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Great, thanks for the feedback. I will practice more by just hitting the
flaps up switch then.
On a related note, I have been using 0 degree flaps for most of my
takeoffs for shorter ground rolls, but i may amend my checklist to use
reflex for flaps on takeoff as well then. It would certainly simplify
the checklist further.
Then for short-field takeoffs, i can use the 0 degree position. Has
anyone tried short-field takeoffs with half flaps?
Jae
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
In my case, I wasn't completely forthcoming...
I do use half flaps for all takeoffs. Because home base is a rough
field, I use half for takeoff and full for landings but find the same
positions work well for all surfaces and conditions so far. After
takeoff, I go directly to reflex for climb and cruise.
So, the only time FPS is 'inconvenient' is between loading and takeoff.
I always have the flaps down for loading so I have to raise them to half
flaps before takeoff. Just part of my standard checklist procedure now.
Once in flight, I bring them down in increments to slow for the pattern
and landing but if a go-around is required, it's just up and go.
FPS could be a real downer if I were doing T&Gs but I just don't do them.
I haven't quite figured out how I will use flaps on real world
approaches. On my Maule, I'd select reflex (-10deg) to come down the
glide slope. Even with a 200' break-out, it was easy to slow to landing
speed, drop the flaps and hit the mark. Not sure that is the way to go
on the '10 but long 90 knot approaches just aren't welcome when you are
mixing it up with jet traffic.
On 12/15/2011 3:08 PM, Jae Chang wrote:
> Great, thanks for the feedback. I will practice more by just hitting
> the flaps up switch then.
>
> On a related note, I have been using 0 degree flaps for most of my
> takeoffs for shorter ground rolls, but i may amend my checklist to use
> reflex for flaps on takeoff as well then. It would certainly simplify
> the checklist further.
>
> Then for short-field takeoffs, i can use the 0 degree position. Has
> anyone tried short-field takeoffs with half flaps?
>
> Jae
> **
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Bill,
FWIW my procedure is load people flaps down. Ready to start engine, master on,
flaps up, set mixture and throttle for priming; wait a few seconds for the flaps
to come all the way up, then prime, start. etc. I don't like to taxi with flaps
down, to minimize damage from anything the prop may blow back onto the flaps.
At run-up, "set flaps" is on the check list.
Like you, I haven't quite developed a procedure for approaches. If I think I'm
going down to 200'AGL before going visual I fly about 95 KIAS or less (unless
the runway is really long) and one notch of flaps, and the jets just have to wait.
If it's under a mile visibility then I'll slow to 80 KIAS with 2 notches
of flaps and the jets really have to wait. If ceiling is 500 or more I'll do 120
KIAS and no flaps.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360991#360991
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
I'm on a 2000' grass strip. I keep flaps down for loading, flaps up for startup,
taxi, and half flaps for take off. FPS works great, in my scenarios I never
need to manually stop the flaps.
If you have never taken off with half flaps, you need to try it. I think you'll
really like it.....
-Mike Kraus
N213RV flying
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 15, 2011, at 5:23 PM, "Bob Turner" wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> FWIW my procedure is load people flaps down. Ready to start engine, master on,
flaps up, set mixture and throttle for priming; wait a few seconds for the flaps
to come all the way up, then prime, start. etc. I don't like to taxi with
flaps down, to minimize damage from anything the prop may blow back onto the
flaps. At run-up, "set flaps" is on the check list.
>
> Like you, I haven't quite developed a procedure for approaches. If I think I'm
going down to 200'AGL before going visual I fly about 95 KIAS or less (unless
the runway is really long) and one notch of flaps, and the jets just have to
wait. If it's under a mile visibility then I'll slow to 80 KIAS with 2 notches
of flaps and the jets really have to wait. If ceiling is 500 or more I'll do
120 KIAS and no flaps.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360991#360991
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Go-around Procedure Using RV-10 Flap Positioner |
Bob, I like the flaps up at engine start then down before takeoff. I
have a good bit of debris along some of my taxi ways and I know I'll
regret not pulling them up for taxi. Thanks.
Bill
On 12/15/2011 5:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"
>
> Bill,
>
> FWIW my procedure is load people flaps down. Ready to start engine, master on,
flaps up, set mixture and throttle for priming; wait a few seconds for the flaps
to come all the way up, then prime, start. etc. I don't like to taxi with
flaps down, to minimize damage from anything the prop may blow back onto the
flaps. At run-up, "set flaps" is on the check list.
>
> Like you, I haven't quite developed a procedure for approaches. If I think I'm
going down to 200'AGL before going visual I fly about 95 KIAS or less (unless
the runway is really long) and one notch of flaps, and the jets just have to
wait. If it's under a mile visibility then I'll slow to 80 KIAS with 2 notches
of flaps and the jets really have to wait. If ceiling is 500 or more I'll do
120 KIAS and no flaps.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant |
I've been thinking about putting a LED light in the nose wheel pant to
better illuminate the center line. I'm thinking LED as I think they are more
shockproof. Has anyone else put a light there?
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant |
My dual HID wing leading edge lights work GREAT. I would not personally wan
t that complexity and additional weight down there (castering wheel & elect
rical leads). Also the wheel pant is really low to the ground. There may be
an issue getting enough of an angle to actually hit the runway effectively
. Throw in some shimmy or a slightly offset nose wheel due to crosswind etc
...
My lights are set up so the left one is ideally pointed for taxi and the ri
ght light is set up for the flair. And dual 35 or 50W HID's are more than e
nough light. I suggest you go tried & true. Yes I actually said that!
Another option is placing light in the lower cowl like Cirrus uses. I think
there is a -10 builder with light(s) there.
[Description: http://www.planesmart.com/graphics/slideshow/fpss/slideshows/
demoslideshow/images/slide4.jpg]
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant
I've been thinking about putting a LED light in the nose wheel pant to bett
er illuminate the center line. I'm thinking LED as I think they are more sh
ockproof. Has anyone else put a light there?
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant |
There is one builder that put the lights in the inlet. Can not locate
that picture, nor would I consider it.
Go with the HID (planelights.com) lights. I had an issue with one and a
new one was quickly shipped out, so they back their product if you are
not completely happy with it. The pictures on their website are of a
RV-10 and he shows how he cut out an area to shine the lights more
centered. I have not flown at night so I can not tell you how effective
they are but with my wigwag at daylight hours I am easily seen by other
traffic, so I=99ll assume they will be plenty bright at night. I
have a heck of a time taking my lower cowling off/on so I can not even
imagine trying to figure out how to not pull the wires or attaching the
wires as I try to hold the cowling up.
I=99m with Robin. Stick with a known solution.
Pascal
From: Robin Marks
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant
My dual HID wing leading edge lights work GREAT. I would not personally
want that complexity and additional weight down there (castering wheel &
electrical leads). Also the wheel pant is really low to the ground.
There may be an issue getting enough of an angle to actually hit the
runway effectively. Throw in some shimmy or a slightly offset nose wheel
due to crosswind etc
My lights are set up so the left one is ideally pointed for taxi and the
right light is set up for the flair. And dual 35 or 50W HID's are more
than enough light. I suggest you go tried & true. Yes I actually said
that!
Another option is placing light in the lower cowl like Cirrus uses. I
think there is a -10 builder with light(s) there.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert
Gardner
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant
I=99ve been thinking about putting a LED light in the nose wheel
pant to better illuminate the center line. I=99m thinking LED as I
think they are more shockproof. Has anyone else put a light there?Albert
GardnerN991RVYuma, AZ =============
sts This Month --
And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
ick on
t
d
aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
b>
bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=============
V10-List Email Forum -
>
:p>
/o:p>
tor?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=============
bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
:p>
tp://forums.matronics.com
=============
bsp; - List Contribution Web Site -
e> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2011 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2011 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage
you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2011 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2011.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I put a Kuntzleman Landing/Taxi/Recognition Light in the cowling below the prop.
I don't have a photo, but I'll take one the next time I'm out there. Simple
to install and flush with the cowling. It's permanently glassed in and cowl removal
only requires one quick disconnect at the firewall.
Of course, I do have a different engine setup which contributed to my modified
lower cowl.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361342#361342
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LED Landing Light in Nose Wheel Pant |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I have DW HID's in outboard LE. I have landed just after sunset and they really
illuminate the whole runway well. If I needed more light I would go with the
lower cowl LED light. Embed wiring inside lower cowl to a fw connector that could
be easily connected before top cowling is installed. I think one of our good
RV vendors may come out with a kit soon.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361343#361343
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Odd Wingtip Choice |
Barnstormers has an RV-10 featured in their weekly eFLYER with an unusual d
ecision on building the wing. They seem to have left the entire fiberglass
wingtip off the build. Not sure I have ever seen this before (or want to ev
er see again).
http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=593284
Robin
[Description: http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/73/98/.watermarked_e828c5a
fa44e6a79687d838d32c015b0.jpg]
[Description: http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/24/ff/.watermarked_dd2315f
6bd58be19d5e55828ed45ab55.jpg]
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd Wingtip Choice |
I would suggest this carries a change in the wing loading. Truly an experimentalist.
I wonder what Van had to say about this.......
-----Original Message-----
>From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
>Sent: Dec 20, 2011 11:46 AM
>To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: RV10-List: Odd Wingtip Choice
>
>Barnstormers has an RV-10 featured in their weekly eFLYER with an unusual decision
on building the wing. They seem to have left the entire fiberglass wingtip
off the build. Not sure I have ever seen this before (or want to ever see again).
>
>http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=593284
>
>Robin
>
>[Description: http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/73/98/.watermarked_e828c5afa44e6a79687d838d32c015b0.jpg]
>[Description: http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/24/ff/.watermarked_dd2315f6bd58be19d5e55828ed45ab55.jpg]
>
>Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odd Wingtip Choice |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Anyone see a control for alternate induction air?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361361#361361
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd Wingtip Choice |
Bet'cha $10k it wasn't installed
On 12/20/2011 7:10 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"
>
> Anyone see a control for alternate induction air?
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd Wingtip Choice |
Maybe it's just me but I'd kind of like to know how it flies. Not that
I'd take mine off, but maybe he' onto something.
Just sayin'.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Bet'cha $10k it wasn't installed
>
>
> On 12/20/2011 7:10 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>> Anyone see a control for alternate induction air?
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd Wingtip Choice |
A true empiricist!
On 12/20/2011 8:19 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Dave Saylor
>
> Maybe it's just me but I'd kind of like to know how it flies. Not that
> I'd take mine off, but maybe he' onto something.
>
> Just sayin'.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd Wingtip Choice |
Another view of the car. The guy was sort of unpleasant if you didn't "ooh"
and "ahh" while looking at the thing (actually, it was hard not to chuckle.)
It looked very heavy. Haven't seen it at any other Airventure since.
Albert Gardner
I like that Robin. But the first Home Depot plane was at Oshkosh 2005.
I don't know how many remember this one but it was a flying car made of
wood.
We all called it the Home Depot Special the whole week.
I really hope it was just a concept.
Scott Schmidt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd Wingtip Choice |
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_614828_AEROCAR+ONE.html
<http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=614828&go_to_images=1>
Speaking of Aerocars, did you see this one in the same ad emailed out?
All yours for $1.25M!
jae
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I see the FAA has re-issued the AD on IO-540's requiring inspections every 100
hours of the clamps which hold the SS fuel lines which go to the injectors. Details
are in Lycoming SB 342F which can be downloaded off the internet.
Of course AD's don't apply to experimental airplanes, but you ignore them at your
risk. And this one is very easy to do at every oil change.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361412#361412
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Sweet HD Aircraft Video Cam |
Some probably have already seen this, but I noticed that ACS has it on sale right
now for $399 plus an extra 10% off with the check out code "PILOT12".
I'd be interested to hear any impressions of the system and the actual 1080p video
quality.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/dataavhd.php
Best,
-
Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 26+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Sweet HD Aircraft Video Cam |
I have the NFlightCam+ Contour camera but a field of view of 170 degrees
isn't bad for looking at the terrain out in front but if you are trying to
take pics of aircraft nearby they are way too small. I'm trying the 120
degree view option that NFlightCam has to see if it's better.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 8:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Sweet HD Aircraft Video Cam
Some probably have already seen this, but I noticed that ACS has it on sale
right now for $399 plus an extra 10% off with the check out code "PILOT12".
I'd be interested to hear any impressions of the system and the actual 1080p
video quality.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/dataavhd.php
Best,
-
Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 26+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: RV-10 / P-51 Formation Flight |
| From: | James McGrew <jsmcgrew(at)alum.mit.edu> |
RV-10 Group,
We all know the RV-10 is great. I just thought I would share something
I did with my -10 that reinforces that a bit. I found myself in the
right place at the right time to lead a formation of restored P-51's
on a photo shoot flight over Colorado Springs (I know, bragging...). I
was concerned that my plane (still without paint or wheel pants) could
maintain sufficient speed to keep the Mustangs from falling from the
sky. As it turns out it worked great.
I had about 150 KIAS at 8,500' when I met the 2 ship 180 degrees out
over our rejoin point. I slapped on a monster 2.5G break turn (which
sadly almost put my camera man out) to get on their 6. I then
maneuvered the formation into a 3 ship echelon for our photo shoot. I
was able to keep about 130 KIAS in level flight, with everything I
could get out of my plane (2500 RPM, rich). It was August and the
engine was getting a bit hot, I played with the mixture to keep the
oil and CHT in the green/yellow. The Mustang pilot said this was OK,
but a bit mushy for him. It was interesting that the turbulence coming
off the mountains was knocking the RV-10 around as the -51's were
cruising nice and smooth. Another thing is how big that 11' foot
diameter prop looks when it is swinging that close to my little plane
(I'm used to close formation with pointy nosed airplanes).
The attached photos say it all.The RV-10 provided great visibility for
both me and my friend with the camera in the back. What a great
experience. (I also attached a photo of my plane over Maine.) You can
see my tail/wingtip in a couple photos. There was a camera in #3, but
I still have gotten that picture of N312JE next to "Little Horse".
Happy Holidays. Happy Flying!
-Jim
N312JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: RV-10 / P-51 Formation Flight |
Hey Jim, those are awesome photos and it's an awesome experience!
You can almost feel and see the high AOA of the 2 mustangs
in that side view...it's like a boat trying to get on plane.
Pretty cool! Wait until you get the wheel pants on...you'd make
them even happier.
Tim
On 12/22/2011 11:30 AM, James McGrew wrote:
> RV-10 Group,
>
> We all know the RV-10 is great. I just thought I would share something
> I did with my -10 that reinforces that a bit. I found myself in the
> right place at the right time to lead a formation of restored P-51's
> on a photo shoot flight over Colorado Springs (I know, bragging...). I
> was concerned that my plane (still without paint or wheel pants) could
> maintain sufficient speed to keep the Mustangs from falling from the
> sky. As it turns out it worked great.
>
> I had about 150 KIAS at 8,500' when I met the 2 ship 180 degrees out
> over our rejoin point. I slapped on a monster 2.5G break turn (which
> sadly almost put my camera man out) to get on their 6. I then
> maneuvered the formation into a 3 ship echelon for our photo shoot. I
> was able to keep about 130 KIAS in level flight, with everything I
> could get out of my plane (2500 RPM, rich). It was August and the
> engine was getting a bit hot, I played with the mixture to keep the
> oil and CHT in the green/yellow. The Mustang pilot said this was OK,
> but a bit mushy for him. It was interesting that the turbulence coming
> off the mountains was knocking the RV-10 around as the -51's were
> cruising nice and smooth. Another thing is how big that 11' foot
> diameter prop looks when it is swinging that close to my little plane
> (I'm used to close formation with pointy nosed airplanes).
>
> The attached photos say it all.The RV-10 provided great visibility for
> both me and my friend with the camera in the back. What a great
> experience. (I also attached a photo of my plane over Maine.) You can
> see my tail/wingtip in a couple photos. There was a camera in #3, but
> I still have gotten that picture of N312JE next to "Little Horse".
>
> Happy Holidays. Happy Flying!
>
> -Jim
> N312JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to install
nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of the gear
mounts).
Photo of the mount is here:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts and
putting the nuts on top.
Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts installed? If
so - how?
BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut, washer
combos or orientation for this step. If it's called out and I missed it,
please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss anything critical.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
Can you borrow a neighbor kid to hold a wrench? Use masking tape on
the closed end of the 3/8 wrench? I think I just used my girly hands...
I----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip Perry
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to
install nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of the
gear mounts).
Photo of the mount is here:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts
and putting the nuts on top.
Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts installed?
If so - how?
BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut,
washer combos or orientation for this step. If it's called out and I
missed it, please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss anything
critical.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
You know what they say little hands little ..............
Geoff Combs
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
Can you borrow a neighbor kid to hold a wrench? Use masking tape on the
closed end of the 3/8 wrench? I think I just used my girly hands...
I----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip <mailto:philperry9(at)gmail.com> Perry
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to install
nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of the gear
mounts).
Photo of the mount is here:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts and
putting the nuts on top.
Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts installed? If so
- how?
BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut, washer
combos or orientation for this step. If it's called out and I missed it,
please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss anything critical.
Phil
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
Use a dab of fuel lube or any other sticky substance on your finger tip
to hold the nut so you can hold it on the end of the bolt threads while
you get the nut started.
I remember those to be very tricky, but it can be done.
David Leikam
RV10
Flying
On Dec 22, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to
install nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of the
gear mounts).
>
> Photo of the mount is here:
> http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
>
> I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts
and putting the nuts on top.
>
> Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts installed?
If so - how?
>
> BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut,
washer combos or orientation for this step. If it's called out and I
missed it, please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss anything
critical.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
latex gloves?
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Combs
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
You know what they say little hands little ..............
Geoff Combs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
Can you borrow a neighbor kid to hold a wrench? Use masking tape on
the closed end of the 3/8 wrench? I think I just used my girly hands...
I----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip Perry
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to
install nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of the
gear mounts).
Photo of the mount is here:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts
and putting the nuts on top.
Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts
installed? If so - how?
BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut,
washer combos or orientation for this step. If it's called out and I
missed it, please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss anything
critical.
Phil
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
remove the side cover panel and it becomes pretty easy to access three
of the 4... the other has to be approached from the center inward and
doesn't have the same issues.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Dec 22, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to
> install nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of
> the gear mounts).
>
> Photo of the mount is here:
> http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
>
> I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts
> and putting the nuts on top.
>
> Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts
> installed? If so - how?
>
> BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut,
> washer combos or orientation for this step. If it's called out and
> I missed it, please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss
> anything critical.
>
> Phil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
| From: | "Andrew Long" <along(at)aanet.com.au> |
Also if I may, I can't find the bolt size in the manual. I gather that
they are AN3-4A's does this sound correct?
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> remove the side cover
panel and it becomes pretty easy to access three
> of the 4...
the other has to be approached from the center inward and
>
doesn't have the same issues.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2011, at 3:30 PM,
Phillip Perry wrote:
>
>> No matter how hard I try,
my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to
>> install nuts on
the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of
>> the
gear mounts).
>>
>> Photo of the mount is here:
>>
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
>>
>> I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest
inverting the bolts
>> and putting the nuts on top.
>>
>> Before I do that, has anyone had success getting
these nuts
>> installed? If so - how?
>>
>> BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt,
nut,
>> washer combos or orientation for this step. If it's
called out and
>> I missed it, please let me know so I can
make sure I didn't miss
>> anything critical.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Nolin <gnolin(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
Use masking tape to tape the nut and washer to your first or middle finger.
- Cut a hole in the tape so the bolt can penetrate and get started.- An
other way is to tape the not in a cloase end wrench.
G. Hank Nolin, P.E.
832-640-6284
www.salestaxexemptions.com
-
"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure--aviation offers it all."
Charles A. Lindbergh
--- On Thu, 12/22/11, Phillip Perry wrote:
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
Date: Thursday, December 22, 2011, 5:30 PM
No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to install
nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of the gear mount
s).
Photo of the mount is here:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts and pu
tting the nuts on top.
Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts installed? If s
o - how?
BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut, washer
combos or orientation for this step.- If it's called out and I missed it,
please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss anything critical.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
4A's is what I came up with too.
I have no idea why the plans tell you to leave them off. If I had it to do a
gain, I wouldn't do that.
My hands are simply too big to get in there.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 22, 2011, at 7:03 PM, "Andrew Long" wrote:
> Also if I may, I can't find the bolt size in the manual. I gather that the
y are AN3-4A's does this sound correct?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Long
> www.ozrv10.com
>
> > remove the side cover panel and it becomes pretty easy to access three
> > of the 4... the other has to be approached from the center inward and
> > doesn't have the same issues.
> >
> > Jeff Carpenter
> > 40304
> >
> >
> > On Dec 22, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> >
> >> No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to
> >> install nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top of
> >> the gear mounts).
> >>
> >> Photo of the mount is here:
> >> http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
> >>
> >> I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the bolts
> >> and putting the nuts on top.
> >>
> >> Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts
> >> installed? If so - how?
> >>
> >> BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt, nut,
> >> washer combos or orientation for this step. If it's called out and
> >> I missed it, please let me know so I can make sure I didn't miss
> >> anything critical.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts? |
Far easier and quicker to lay a short piece of masking tape sticky side
up on a box-end wrench and push the nut onto the tape and down into the
wrench. It'll also work on the open-end if you can't get leverage to
pop the wrench off the tightened nut.
Linn
On 12/22/2011 8:27 PM, George Nolin wrote:
> Use masking tape to tape the nut and washer to your first or middle
> finger. Cut a hole in the tape so the bolt can penetrate and get
> started. Another way is to tape the not in a cloase end wrench.
>
> G. Hank Nolin, P.E.
> 832-640-6284
> www.salestaxexemptions.com
> "Science, freedom, beauty, adventure--aviation offers it all."
> Charles A. Lindbergh
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 12/22/11, Phillip Perry //* wrote:
>
>
> From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Seat Rail Mounts - Invert the bolts?
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, December 22, 2011, 5:30 PM
>
> No matter how hard I try, my wrist don't articulate 165 degrees to
> install nuts on the underside of the rail mounts (that sit on top
> of the gear mounts).
>
> Photo of the mount is here:
> http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r51/philperry9/d7e03bbf.jpg
>
> I know I'm going against the norm when I suggest inverting the
> bolts and putting the nuts on top.
>
> Before I do that, has anyone had success getting these nuts
> installed? If so - how?
>
> BTW-I can't find any part of the plans that define which bolt,
> nut, washer combos or orientation for this step. If it's called
> out and I missed it, please let me know so I can make sure I
> didn't miss anything critical.
>
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
> ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john dalmas <jdalmas(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: RV-10 / P-51 Formation Flight |
That was the coolest email.- Made me feel like I was flying right along s
ide you!=0A-=0AThose-Mustangs really are monster props with skinny litt
le wings.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: James McGrew <js
mcgrew(at)alum.mit.edu>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, Decem
ber 22, 2011 12:30 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Fwd: RV-10 / P-51 Formation Fli
ght=0A=0ARV-10 Group,=0A=0AWe all know the RV-10 is great. I just thought I
would share something=0AI did with my -10 that reinforces that a bit. I fo
und myself in the=0Aright place at the right time to lead a formation of re
stored P-51's=0Aon a photo shoot flight over Colorado Springs (I know, brag
ging...). I=0Awas concerned that my plane (still without paint or wheel pan
ts) could=0Amaintain sufficient speed to keep the Mustangs from falling fro
m the=0Asky. As it turns out it worked great.=0A=0AI had about 150 KIAS at
8,500' when I met the 2 ship 180 degrees out=0Aover our rejoin point. I sla
pped on a monster 2.5G break turn (which=0Asadly almost put my camera man o
ut) to get on their 6. I then=0Amaneuvered the formation into a 3 ship eche
lon for our photo shoot. I=0Awas able to keep about 130 KIAS in level fligh
t, with everything I=0Acould get out of my plane (2500 RPM, rich). It was A
ugust and the=0Aengine was getting a bit hot, I played with the mixture to
keep the=0Aoil and CHT in the green/yellow. The Mustang pilot said this was
OK,=0Abut a bit mushy for him. It was interesting that the turbulence comi
ng=0Aoff the mountains was knocking the RV-10 around as the -51's were=0Acr
uising nice and smooth. Another thing is how big that 11' foot=0Adiameter p
rop looks when it is swinging that close to my little plane=0A(I'm used to
close formation with pointy nosed airplanes).=0A=0AThe attached photos say
it all.The RV-10 provided great visibility for=0Aboth me and my friend with
the camera in the back. What a great=0Aexperience. (I also attached a phot
o of my plane over Maine.) You can=0Asee my tail/wingtip in a couple photos
. There was a camera in #3, but=0AI still have gotten that picture of N312J
E next to "Little Horse".=0A=0AHappy Holidays. Happy Flying!=0A=0A-Jim=0AN3
12JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Tail kit for sale |
| From: | "Stephen Blank,DDS" <sblankdds(at)gmail.com> |
I have an 80% built tailcone for sale. I am asking $3,000. This is a great
jump start. The horizontal stabilizer and elevators are complete, the
vertical fin and rudder are finished. I am located in Florida and would
prefer someone that is able to pick up the project. A few images are
available at the link below. Contact info below. - Steve
http://www.psldentist.com/rv10.html
Stephen Blank,DDS
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL. 34983
772-475-5556 cell
E-mail: sblankdds(at)gmail.com
sent from my Evo-Shift
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the
list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this
be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South
Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific
agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
--> < rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just
to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Michael
The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
< rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: ' rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked
up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
are all familiar with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to
use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door
windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the window
adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he
had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two part
cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional cost
in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
part, 1:1, gun pack!
aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so
you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck
the tip and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards
of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
excellent product for this application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on
two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let
it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but
it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise on
its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how to
describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi broke
clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apart
and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue joint
hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaining
square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks with
the framing hammer I wa!
s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'm
talking about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each
pack comes with one tip too.
>
> <http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit=>
http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192
<http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit=> &limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> <http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf>
http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.bsp; -->
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matrobsp; -Matt
http://www.matronics.com/con================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
==================================
" face="courier new,courier"> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
www.aeroelectric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==================================
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?RV10-List
==================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
==================================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
To add to the glue debate, two other products have worked well for RV-10
windows:
- Hysol (used on Lancair windows):
http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT
<http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId=%7b992B7B06-E0
1B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869%7d> &CatId={992B7B06-E01B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
- 3M Scotch-Weld:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3mAdhesive2216.php
Both epoxies require 30 grit or so sanding to rough up the mating surfaces.
I used the Hysol on my 10, adding enough flox to thicken it. Keep clamped
for a couple of days. After the epoxy set, I filled in any void left around
the window joints (only a few spots) with micro-balloons, then sanded flush.
I added two bids of medium weight fiberglass over the glue joints, using
peel-ply. A fast sand then more balloons to feather in the windows.
I added the fiberglass over the joint as I saw many RV-10 with cracked paint
over glass to cabin top joint, as well adding strength to keep the window in
place.
I used black electrical tape to mask the inside and outside of the windows.
Add a good 1/8" or so bed of glue to avoid holidays. Add enough glue to the
window itself to make sure you get adhesion between the two parts when you
put the glass in place. You have plenty of working time to clean up any
excess that squeezes out. Don't go crazy with clamp pressure as you want
the glue to act to level out the glass/fiberglass mate (in other words,
clamp to get the window flush with the cabin top, don't over clamp and have
the glass below the cabin top).
For the front of the windshield I did the micro balloons to provide the
fillet per the plans. I then laid up about 4 bids of carbon fiber instead
of fiberglass as the plans call out. Micro on top of the carbon fiber and
sand.
I'm please with the results. If I ever do another one I think I'll just use
the standard West epoxy and flox as I will again add the fiberglass or
carbon over the joints.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the
list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this
be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South
Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific
agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
-->
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just
to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
Michael
The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked
up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
are all familiar with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to
use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door
windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the window
adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he
had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two part
cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional cost
in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
part, 1:1, gun pack!
aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so
you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck
the tip and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards
of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
excellent product for this application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on
two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let
it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but
it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise on
its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how to
describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi broke
clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apart
and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue joint
hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaining
square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks with
the framing hammer I wa!
s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'm
talking about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each
pack comes with one tip too.
>
> http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192
<http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit=> &limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.bsp; -->
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matrobsp; -Matt
http://www.matronics.com/con================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> =========
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> " face="courier
new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?RV10-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
Yes it is. I will have stock on this within the
Week. I will also have the dispensing guns
Available for rent or to buy.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 24, 2011, at 10:26 AM, "Les Kearney" wrote:
> Hi Geoff
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on t
he list.
>
> I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will th
is be some we can buy from you in the new year?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
> Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
> I am considering selling it to builders.
> I will know here by the end of the week.
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPhone Geoff
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis wrot
e:
>
>> Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in So
uth Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific a
gency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Patrick Pulis
>> Adelaide
>> South Australia
>>
>> From: Geoff Combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>>
.com>
>>
>> Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would bu
y
>> the 200ML and get 2 of them.
>> 200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference front
s a
>> little more. The Windshield
>> is about the same as the door windows.
>> Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
>> the fuse at the door
>> Frame area.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>> Aerosport
>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
>> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>> 614-834-8659p
>> 614-834-5230f
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
>> (Michael Sausen)
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>>
>> -->
>>
>> It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
>> budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield j
ust
>> to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
>> windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
>> spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
>> down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
>>
>> For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
>> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
>> > To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
>> > Subject: Window Glue
>> >
>> > I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
>> adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I pick
ed
>> up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
>> are all familiar with.
>> >
>> > I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
>> experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
>> look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
>> from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself t
o
>> use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the do
or
>> windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the win
dow
>> adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
>> cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until h
e
>> had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
>> details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two pa
rt
>> cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
>> kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional co
st
>> in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
>> part, 1:1, gun pack!
>>
>> aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle s
o
>> you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
>> are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just ch
uck
>> the tip and put the cap back on.
>> >
>> > I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
>> stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwa
rds
>> of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
>> specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
>> excellent product for this application.
>> >
>> > Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
>> non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
>> fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
>> windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch o
n
>> two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I le
t
>> it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon b
ut
>> it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise o
n
>> its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how
to
>> describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi bro
ke
>> clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apar
t
>> and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue join
t
>> hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaini
ng
>> square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks wit
h
>> the framing hammer I wa!
>>
>> s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
>> the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I
'm
>> talking about.
>> >
>> > Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
>> link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind e
ach
>> pack comes with one tip too.
>> >
>> > http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
>> >
>> > Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>> >
>> > http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>> >
>> > Michael
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.bsp; --> http://www.matrobsp; -
Matt http://www.matronics.com/con===============
=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =========
>> " face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com
>> >www.buildersbooks.com
>> "http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>> =========
>> ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> =========
>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>> =========
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
I used basically the same materials and techniques as Carl for my
windshield: Hysol and an overlay of fiberglass.
However, I've come to realize since then that possibly the only reason the
windshield stays put is the fact that it's mechanically locked into a
groove by the overlays. What I'm saying is that Hysol doesn't stick very
well to windows, even on Lancairs, which use an even more robust groove
(deeper and thicker material) to lock the windows in place.
So be careful if you choose to use Hysol on the windows. It's probably not
the best choice.
Search the archives for "Hysol & window" to see lots more.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Carl Froehlich
wrote:
> To add to the glue debate, two other products have worked well for RV-10
> windows:****
>
> ** **
>
> **- **Hysol (used on Lancair windows):
> http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId={992B7B0
6-E01B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
> ****
>
> **- **3M Scotch-Weld:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3mAdhesive2216.php****
>
> ** **
>
> Both epoxies require 30 grit or so sanding to rough up the mating
> surfaces. I used the Hysol on my 10, adding enough flox to thicken it.
> Keep clamped for a couple of days. After the epoxy set, I filled in any
> void left around the window joints (only a few spots) with micro-balloons
,
> then sanded flush. I added two bids of medium weight fiberglass over the
> glue joints, using peel-ply. A fast sand then more balloons to feather i
n
> the windows. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I added the fiberglass over the joint as I saw many RV-10 with cracked
> paint over glass to cabin top joint, as well adding strength to keep the
> window in place.****
>
> ** **
>
> I used black electrical tape to mask the inside and outside of the
> windows. Add a good 1/8=9D or so bed of glue to avoid holidays. A
dd enough
> glue to the window itself to make sure you get adhesion between the two
> parts when you put the glass in place. You have plenty of working time t
o
> clean up any excess that squeezes out. Don=99t go crazy with clamp
pressure
> as you want the glue to act to level out the glass/fiberglass mate (in
> other words, clamp to get the window flush with the cabin top, don
=99t over
> clamp and have the glass below the cabin top). ****
>
> ** **
>
> For the front of the windshield I did the micro balloons to provide the
> fillet per the plans. I then laid up about 4 bids of carbon fiber instea
d
> of fiberglass as the plans call out. Micro on top of the carbon fiber an
d
> sand.****
>
> ** **
>
> I=99m please with the results. If I ever do another one I think I
=99ll just
> use the standard West epoxy and flox as I will again add the fiberglass o
r
> carbon over the joints.****
>
> ** **
>
> Carl****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Les Kearney
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:27 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Geoff****
>
> ****
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on
> the list.****
>
> ****
>
> I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will
> this be some we can buy from you in the new year?****
>
> ****
>
> Cheers****
>
> ****
>
> Les****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *g.combs
> *Sent:* December-07-11 6:00 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue****
>
> I am considering selling it to builders.****
>
> I will know here by the end of the week.****
>
> ** **
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPhone Geoff ****
>
> ** **
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis
> wrote:****
>
> Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in
> South Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a
> specific agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to
> builders?****
>
> ****
>
> Regards****
>
> ****
>
> Patrick Pulis****
>
> Adelaide****
>
> South Australia****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Geoff Combs
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
> g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
>
> Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would bu
y
> the 200ML and get 2 of them.
> 200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference front
s
> a
> little more. The Windshield
> is about the same as the door windows.
> Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
> the fuse at the door
> Frame area.
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Geoff Combs
> Aerosport
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-8659p
> 614-834-5230f
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
> -->
>
> It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
> budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield
> just
> to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
> windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
> spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
> down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
>
> Michael
>
> The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
>
> For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
> wrote:
>
> > Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> > To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
> > Subject: Window Glue
> >
> > I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
> adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I pick
ed
> up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
> are all familiar with.
> >
> > I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
> experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
> look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
> from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself
> to
> use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the do
or
> windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the
> window
> adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
> cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until h
e
> had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
> details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two pa
rt
> cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
> kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional co
st
> in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
> part, 1:1, gun pack!
>
> aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle s
o
> you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
> are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just
> chuck
> the tip and put the cap back on.
> >
> > I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
> stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get
> upwards
> of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
> specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
> excellent product for this application.
> >
> > Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
> non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
> fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
> windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch o
n
> two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I le
t
> it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon b
ut
> it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise
on
> its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how
> to
> describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexibrok
e
> clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apar
t
> and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue join
t
> hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaini
ng
> square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks wit
h
> the framing hammer I wa!
>
> s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
> the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I
'm
> talking about.
> >
> > Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
> link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind
> each
> pack comes with one tip too.
> >
> > http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
> >
> > Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
> >
> > http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.bsp; --> http://www.matrobsp;
> -Matt http://www.matronics.com/con=============
===
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>****
>
> ** <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>*
>
> *========== <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>*
>
> *" face="courier new,courier"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>*
*www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *>www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion*
>
> *==========*
>
> *ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *==========*
>
> *ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *==========*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion*
>
> *==========*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c*
>
> *www.aeroelectric.comhttp://ww
w.matronics.com/c= -Matt Dralle, List
- The RV10-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much m
uch --> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronic=
================ <http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?RV10-List>*
>
> **http://forums.matronics.com** - List Contribution Web generous
> nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c=****
>
> * *
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
[quote="dave.saylor.aircrafters(a"]I used basically the same materials and techniques
as Carl for my windshield: Hysol and an overlay of fiberglass.
However, I've come to realize since then that possibly the only reason the windshield
stays put is the fact that it's mechanically locked into a groove by the
overlays. What I'm saying is that Hysol doesn't stick very well to windows,
even on Lancairs, which use an even more robust groove (deeper and thicker material)
to lock the windows in place.
So be careful if you choose to use Hysol on the windows. It's probably not the
best choice.
Search the archives for "Hysol & window" to see lots more.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
--[/quote
I was one or two days away from using Hysol to install my windows back in 2008,
when someone on the forum (maybe Rob Hickman?) reported that one of his windows,
that had been installed with Hysol some time before, popped out when he accidentally
bumped it. I sold my Hysol to a local shop and reverted to the Weld-on
and had no problems.
One of the lessons that I had to learn more than one time during the build was:
If I was going to do something differently than how Van's recommended, it was
wise to think it through very carefully and do plenty of homework. Not to say
that Van's ways are always the best, but they are generally well proven. $.02
worth.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361626#361626
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
| From: | "rleffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem from five years ago.
Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is progress being made
on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should be changed to which decade John will
be finished? :P
Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six of my build. I hope
to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making any bets yet.
bob
Deems Davis wrote:
> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
> account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - FWF
RV-10 #40684
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Happy New Year to everyone else as well!
Alive and well with kit #40600 still ahead of Deem's prognostication. Four
death of all parents, one loss of the wife's only sister and two bouts of
skin cancer have NOT diminished my enthusiasm.
Still travel the U.S. performing EAA tech advisor role on my beloved RV 10
with builders. Still outspoken as ever... even about those obnoxious
rudder pedals (see grimstad) and that damned gonad vent design.
Served two years as a Van's Mentor for TEEN FLIGHT I. See Sport Aviation
"Band of Builders" article. Now a Lead Mentor with Van's TEEN FLIGHT II
before the program roles out worldwide in February with New Zealand. Yes,
I am on a second RV-12 and it does not allow any of my 285 mods
(improvements) like on the RV10.
Still performing Avionics and "Aircraft on the Ground- AOG" Rescue work for
Alaska Air Group. Again headed to OSH '12. Otherwise... not much going
on... no grandkids yet.
Any great hangar stories?
JOHN
On Dec 27, 2011 7:30 AM, "rleffler" wrote:
>
> In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem from five
> years ago.
>
> Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is progress being
> made on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should be changed to which decade
> John will be finished? :P
>
> Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six of my build.
> I hope to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making any bets yet.
>
> bob
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
> > John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
> > pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> > selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
> > just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
> > account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
> > takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
> > entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
> > Deems Davis # 406
> > Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> > http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
>
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
I don't care how long Johns -10's is going to take I know it's going to be an excellent
example of what a flying 10 can be. Excellent choices, excellent equipment
and an excellent build will make his plane another proud member of our fleet.
And I am pretty sure he plans on putting the wing tips on his plane. :-).
Robin
Sent from my iPad2.
On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:33 AM, "rleffler" wrote:
>
> In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem from five years
ago.
>
> Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is progress being made
on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should be changed to which decade John will
be finished? :P
>
> Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six of my build. I
hope to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making any bets yet.
>
> bob
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Oh yeh, did not mention third year as an EAA Life Member. Trying to get
any or all of the Van Grunsven boys Dick / Jerry / Stan to join me ;-)
On Dec 27, 2011 8:16 AM, "John Cox" wrote:
> Happy New Year to everyone else as well!
>
> Alive and well with kit #40600 still ahead of Deem's prognostication.
> Four death of all parents, one loss of the wife's only sister and two bouts
> of skin cancer have NOT diminished my enthusiasm.
>
> Still travel the U.S. performing EAA tech advisor role on my beloved RV 10
> with builders. Still outspoken as ever... even about those obnoxious
> rudder pedals (see grimstad) and that damned gonad vent design.
>
> Served two years as a Van's Mentor for TEEN FLIGHT I. See Sport Aviation
> "Band of Builders" article. Now a Lead Mentor with Van's TEEN FLIGHT II
> before the program roles out worldwide in February with New Zealand. Yes,
> I am on a second RV-12 and it does not allow any of my 285 mods
> (improvements) like on the RV10.
>
> Still performing Avionics and "Aircraft on the Ground- AOG" Rescue work
> for Alaska Air Group. Again headed to OSH '12. Otherwise... not much
> going on... no grandkids yet.
>
> Any great hangar stories?
>
> JOHN
> On Dec 27, 2011 7:30 AM, "rleffler" wrote:
>
>>
>> In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem from five
>> years ago.
>>
>> Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is progress
>> being made on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should be changed to which
>> decade John will be finished? :P
>>
>> Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six of my build.
>> I hope to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making any bets yet.
>>
>> bob
>>
>>
>> Deems Davis wrote:
>> > John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
>> > pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>> > selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
>> > just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
>> > account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
>> > takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
>> > entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>> > Deems Davis # 406
>> > Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>> > http://deemsrv10.com/
>> >
>>
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Leffler
>> N410BL - FWF
>> RV-10 #40684
>> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Absolutely but they might be carbon fiber with the latest LEDs and slightly
uplift winglets for fueltank venting. It's hard to make a Hershey bar into
Godiva.
An Extra is the only flush wingtip I could reluctantly accept. Think
Szbach. Every mod robs any builder of flying their own gem.... must mooch
from flying friends to keep my hear pumping. I miss John Hilger!
John
On Dec 27, 2011 8:29 AM, "Robin Marks" wrote:
>
> I don't care how long Johns -10's is going to take I know it's going to be
> an excellent example of what a flying 10 can be. Excellent choices,
> excellent equipment and an excellent build will make his plane another
> proud member of our fleet. And I am pretty sure he plans on putting the
> wing tips on his plane. :-).
>
> Robin
>
> Sent from my iPad2.
>
> On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:33 AM, "rleffler" wrote:
>
> >
> > In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem from five
> years ago.
> >
> > Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is progress
> being made on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should be changed to which
> decade John will be finished? :P
> >
> > Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six of my
> build. I hope to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making any bets yet.
> >
> > bob
> >
> >
> > Deems Davis wrote:
> >> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
> >> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> >> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
> >> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
> >> account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
> >> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
> >> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
> >> Deems Davis # 406
> >> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> >> http://deemsrv10.com/
> >>
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Leffler
> > N410BL - FWF
> > RV-10 #40684
> > http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
An interesting new toy:
http://www.pilotmall.com/product/DeLorme-AG-008373-201-inReach-Two-Way-Sate
llite-Communicator-for-Android-OS/tracking-devices?r 11-12-28
Tim
N52KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Very neat competitor to the Spot but it's strange that they don't have an i
OS app. It also appears that a lot of people are having problems pairing i
t with their Android devices.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: a new toy
An interesting new toy:
http://www.pilotmall.com/product/DeLorme-AG-008373-201-inReach-Two-Way-Sate
llite-Communicator-for-Android-OS/tracking-devices?r 11-12-28
Tim
N52KS
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm34077(at)q.com> |
more expensive than Spot or PLB or APRS. unable to determine its
dependencies since no tech specs were available on the link provided; it
will certainly have some. Generally when I am going somewhere in the
aircraft I let my people know where I am going and when I plan to arrive.
APRS in the aircraft, IFR plan, and PLB.
One advantage I did learn of Spot is a SAR provision (extra fee) if
traveling in a country that has none. That is, don't go down in any place
other than the USA or Canada;
in Saudi Arabia we were always told to burn the car as the black smoke would
be easily spotted in the clear desert skies; knowing full well that the only
people searching for us would be ARAMCO aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: a new toy
Very neat competitor to the Spot but it's strange that they don't have an
iOS app. It also appears that a lot of people are having problems pairing
it with their Android devices.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: a new toy
An interesting new toy:
http://www.pilotmall.com/product/DeLorme-AG-008373-201-inReach-Two-Way-Satel
lite-Communicator-for-Android-OS/tracking-devices?r 11-12-28
Tim
N52KS
======================
p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
p; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
l List Fund Raiser. Click on
below to find out more about
Free Incentive Gifts provided
>
ctric www.aeroelectric.com
lder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
ltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
Site:
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
nerous support!
p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
======================
p; - The RV10-List Email Forum -
avigator to browse
ist Un/Subscription,
Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
:p>
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?RV10-List
======================
p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
p://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
======================
p; - List Contribution Web Site -
support!
p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
Well, John, after all this time, you are going to have to revisit every
one of those 285 mods to see if they are still relevant and parts
available. Engine/avionics/exhaust markets are a fast moving scene, and
what was hot at OSH is yesterday's news now. Door/handle/latch system is
whole nother discussion.
Off to another mod detour..................
On 12/27/2011 9:21 AM, John Cox wrote:
>
> Oh yeh, did not mention third year as an EAA Life Member. Trying to
> get any or all of the Van Grunsven boys Dick / Jerry / Stan to join me ;-)
>
> On Dec 27, 2011 8:16 AM, "John Cox" > wrote:
>
> Happy New Year to everyone else as well!
>
> Alive and well with kit #40600 still ahead of Deem's
> prognostication. Four death of all parents, one loss of the
> wife's only sister and two bouts of skin cancer have NOT
> diminished my enthusiasm.
>
> Still travel the U.S. performing EAA tech advisor role on my
> beloved RV 10 with builders. Still outspoken as ever... even
> about those obnoxious rudder pedals (see grimstad) and that damned
> gonad vent design.
>
> Served two years as a Van's Mentor for TEEN FLIGHT I. See Sport
> Aviation "Band of Builders" article. Now a Lead Mentor with Van's
> TEEN FLIGHT II before the program roles out worldwide in February
> with New Zealand. Yes, I am on a second RV-12 and it does not
> allow any of my 285 mods (improvements) like on the RV10.
>
> Still performing Avionics and "Aircraft on the Ground- AOG" Rescue
> work for Alaska Air Group. Again headed to OSH '12. Otherwise...
> not much going on... no grandkids yet.
>
> Any great hangar stories?
>
> JOHN
>
> On Dec 27, 2011 7:30 AM, "rleffler" > wrote:
>
> >
>
> In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem
> from five years ago.
>
> Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is
> progress being made on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should
> be changed to which decade John will be finished? :P
>
> Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six
> of my build. I hope to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making
> any bets yet.
>
> bob
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
> > John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going
> to start a
> > pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> > selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
> interested
> > just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money
> in an escrow
> > account. The person closest to the actual date without going
> over/beyond
> > takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are
> excluded from
> > entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web
> site. :-D
> > Deems Davis # 406
> > Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> > http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
>
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
Glad to hear you're keeping busy. It would be interesting to hear you
explain those mods to the Van's clan.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
Oh yeh, did not mention third year as an EAA Life Member. Trying to get any
or all of the Van Grunsven boys Dick / Jerry / Stan to join me ;-)
On Dec 27, 2011 8:16 AM, "John Cox" wrote:
Happy New Year to everyone else as well!
Alive and well with kit #40600 still ahead of Deem's prognostication. Four
death of all parents, one loss of the wife's only sister and two bouts of
skin cancer have NOT diminished my enthusiasm.
Still travel the U.S. performing EAA tech advisor role on my beloved RV 10
with builders. Still outspoken as ever... even about those obnoxious rudder
pedals (see grimstad) and that damned gonad vent design.
Served two years as a Van's Mentor for TEEN FLIGHT I. See Sport Aviation
"Band of Builders" article. Now a Lead Mentor with Van's TEEN FLIGHT II
before the program roles out worldwide in February with New Zealand. Yes, I
am on a second RV-12 and it does not allow any of my 285 mods (improvements)
like on the RV10.
Still performing Avionics and "Aircraft on the Ground- AOG" Rescue work for
Alaska Air Group. Again headed to OSH '12. Otherwise... not much going
on... no grandkids yet.
Any great hangar stories?
JOHN
On Dec 27, 2011 7:30 AM, "rleffler" wrote:
In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem from five years
ago.
Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is progress being
made on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should be changed to which decade
John will be finished? :P
Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six of my build. I
hope to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making any bets yet.
bob
Deems Davis wrote:
> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
> account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - FWF
RV-10 #40684
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Getting traction on the subject of Mods is "Mission Impossible", much like
acknowledgement that some parts and sub-assemblies could use that all
American phrase new and improved.
The RV 10 gang Watching me grow into an ole grey haired codger right before
your eyes.
put on my tombstone "Just Build it!" Should any of my IMF RV 10 force be
killed or captured.... this post will self destruct before our Saturday
Teen Flight build session.
On Dec 27, 2011 2:10 PM, "Bob Leffler" wrote:
> Glad to hear you=92re keeping busy. It would be interesting to hear you
> explain those mods to the Van=92s clan.****
>
> ** **
>
> bob****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Cox
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:21 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date
> Pool****
>
> ** **
>
> Oh yeh, did not mention third year as an EAA Life Member. Trying to get
> any or all of the Van Grunsven boys Dick / Jerry / Stan to join me ;-)***
*
>
> On Dec 27, 2011 8:16 AM, "John Cox" wrote:****
>
> Happy New Year to everyone else as well!****
>
> Alive and well with kit #40600 still ahead of Deem's prognostication.
> Four death of all parents, one loss of the wife's only sister and two bou
ts
> of skin cancer have NOT diminished my enthusiasm. ****
>
> Still travel the U.S. performing EAA tech advisor role on my beloved RV 1
0
> with builders. Still outspoken as ever... even about those obnoxious
> rudder pedals (see grimstad) and that damned gonad vent design.****
>
> Served two years as a Van's Mentor for TEEN FLIGHT I. See Sport Aviation
> "Band of Builders" article. Now a Lead Mentor with Van's TEEN FLIGHT II
> before the program roles out worldwide in February with New Zealand. Yes
,
> I am on a second RV-12 and it does not allow any of my 285 mods
> (improvements) like on the RV10.****
>
> Still performing Avionics and "Aircraft on the Ground- AOG" Rescue work
> for Alaska Air Group. Again headed to OSH '12. Otherwise... not much
> going on... no grandkids yet.****
>
> Any great hangar stories?****
>
> JOHN****
>
> On Dec 27, 2011 7:30 AM, "rleffler" wrote:****
>
>
> In searching the forums this morning, I came across this gem from five
> years ago.
>
> Since John has been quiet recently, does that mean there is progress bein
g
> made on the RV-10? Perhaps Deem's pool should be changed to which decade
> John will be finished? :P
>
> Of course I don't have much room to talk as I start year six of my build.
> I hope to be flying by OSH, but I'm not making any bets yet.
>
> bob
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
> > John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
> > pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> > selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
> > just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
> > account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyon
d
> > takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
> > entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
> > Deems Davis # 406
> > Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> > http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
>
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361737#361737
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
>At 09:47 PM 12/27/2011 Tuesday, you wrote:
>I have looked at the Dynon stuff up at Arlington Air Show the past two years
>and really like the looks of them. They added autopilot and said last year
>that they were about to announce communications added to their system. A
>single 10" screen to do everything would be pretty easy to install learn to
>operate. Mostly Dynon looks best in the magazines. I guess you get used to
>any of them or they would not all still be in business.
>Pete
I have a Dynon 10" Skyview in the RV-6:
http://www.mattsrv6.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV6&project 43&category=0&log=138164&row=45
http://www.mattsrv6.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV6&project 43&category=0&log=138163&row=46
and a triple GRT HX setup in the RV-8:
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2973&log'376&row=134
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2973&log'375&row=135
I've flown the GRT HX setup about 170 hours and the Dynon Skyview system about
45 hours now.
Which do I prefer? That's a tough call. There are parts about each system that
I like a lot...
The installation and configuration of the Dynon is easier. Instructions are also
better. The network cable interconnect system that Dynon uses (I think it
is just RS485, but it works well) is also a no-brainer to install. Their display
(PFD/Engine/Map) are definitely very pretty and demo well.
The GRT is a little harder to get installed, the manual is a little sketchy in
places and there are a LOT of configuration options that can seem daunting at
first. BUT, there is power and utility in those options. If you use them to
your advantage, you can probably do more, better on the GRT compared to the Dynon.
The displays on the GRT don't have the "3D-y", "Windows-y" look to them.
BUT, I think I'm preferring that at this point. Doing a scan on the GRT looking
for something out of the ordinary is quicker and more accurate. I also like
the PFD layout and operation on the GRT better. It feels more "accurate"
and "believable" to me for some reason. I never quite "trust" what I'm seeing
on the Dynon for some reason and I don't know why. Maybe I just need more time
on the Dynon.
So, the Dynon has it for Installation and Configuation, but the GRT has it for
Operation and Presentation as far as I'm concerned. If I was building a new plane,
I think that I would probably go with the GRT. But its a close race. I
really like the Dynon system too.
I guess I'm saying if you're in the market for a full-featured EFIS system, give
GRT and Dynon both very close look before you make your selection. In my opinion,
it comes down to personal preferences in a few select areas on which way
to go. Both systems are top notch.
BTW, Dynon's autopilot add-on for the Skyview which I have in the RV-6 works well.
Its a good autopilot that does the job. The servos are the same as with
the TruTrak system. In the RV-8, I have the TruTrak Digiflight II VSGV system.
The TruTrak is a smoother, more accurate autopilot in my opinion, and I would
go that route again. But, it also costs quite a bit more than just adding
servos to the Dynon or GRT.
$.02
-
Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
PJ, are you still on the list? Contact me off list if so.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
ibspud(at)roadrunner.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
The RV-12 is being redesigned for the Skyview so it is getting a major
VAN's endorsement. Much like the AFS as standard in the Glastar - Two
weeks to Taxi... that has big impact on widespread marketplace endorsement.
John
On Dec 27, 2011 10:45 PM, "Matt Dralle" wrote:
>
>
> >At 09:47 PM 12/27/2011 Tuesday, you wrote:
> >I have looked at the Dynon stuff up at Arlington Air Show the past two
> years
> >and really like the looks of them. They added autopilot and said last year
> >that they were about to announce communications added to their system. A
> >single 10" screen to do everything would be pretty easy to install learn
> to
> >operate. Mostly Dynon looks best in the magazines. I guess you get used
> to
> >any of them or they would not all still be in business.
> >Pete
>
>
> I have a Dynon 10" Skyview in the RV-6:
>
>
> http://www.mattsrv6.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV6&project 43&category=0&log=138164&row=45
>
> http://www.mattsrv6.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV6&project 43&category=0&log=138163&row=46
>
> and a triple GRT HX setup in the RV-8:
>
>
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2973&log'376&row=134
>
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2973&log'375&row=135
>
> I've flown the GRT HX setup about 170 hours and the Dynon Skyview system
> about 45 hours now.
>
> Which do I prefer? That's a tough call. There are parts about each
> system that I like a lot...
>
> The installation and configuration of the Dynon is easier. Instructions
> are also better. The network cable interconnect system that Dynon uses (I
> think it is just RS485, but it works well) is also a no-brainer to install.
> Their display (PFD/Engine/Map) are definitely very pretty and demo well.
>
> The GRT is a little harder to get installed, the manual is a little
> sketchy in places and there are a LOT of configuration options that can
> seem daunting at first. BUT, there is power and utility in those options.
> If you use them to your advantage, you can probably do more, better on the
> GRT compared to the Dynon. The displays on the GRT don't have the "3D-y",
> "Windows-y" look to them. BUT, I think I'm preferring that at this point.
> Doing a scan on the GRT looking for something out of the ordinary is
> quicker and more accurate. I also like the PFD layout and operation on the
> GRT better. It feels more "accurate" and "believable" to me for some
> reason. I never quite "trust" what I'm seeing on the Dynon for some reason
> and I don't know why. Maybe I just need more time on the Dynon.
>
> So, the Dynon has it for Installation and Configuation, but the GRT has it
> for Operation and Presentation as far as I'm concerned. If I was building
> a new plane, I think that I would probably go with the GRT. But its a
> close race. I really like the Dynon system too.
>
> I guess I'm saying if you're in the market for a full-featured EFIS
> system, give GRT and Dynon both very close look before you make your
> selection. In my opinion, it comes down to personal preferences in a few
> select areas on which way to go. Both systems are top notch.
>
> BTW, Dynon's autopilot add-on for the Skyview which I have in the RV-6
> works well. Its a good autopilot that does the job. The servos are the
> same as with the TruTrak system. In the RV-8, I have the TruTrak
> Digiflight II VSGV system. The TruTrak is a smoother, more accurate
> autopilot in my opinion, and I would go that route again. But, it also
> costs quite a bit more than just adding servos to the Dynon or GRT.
>
> $.02
>
> -
> Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
> Mode
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Tail kit for sale |
| From: | "Stephen Blank,DDS" <sblankdds(at)gmail.com> |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Stephen Blank,DDS" <sblankdds(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2011 9:45 AM
Subject: RV-10 Tail kit for sale
I have an 80% built tailcone for sale. I am asking $3,000. This is a great
jump start. The horizontal stabilizer and elevators are complete, the
vertical fin and rudder are finished. I am located in Florida and would
prefer someone that is able to pick up the project. A few images are
available at the link below. Contact info below. - Steve
http://www.psldentist.com/rv10.html
Stephen Blank,DDS
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL. 34983
772-475-5556 cell
E-mail: sblankdds(at)gmail.com
sent from my Evo-Shift
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
Agree with all said about GRT. I have 2 8.4" HX, TT DFIIVSGV, 430W. Yes the ap
is almost perfect with recommended settings for the -10. After flying behind two
different AFS systems and one Chelton system for a very short time each...I
also noticed minor differences.
I do like having my ap independent. I am hoping GRT has the charts option soon.
I am happy with the glitch-free GRT products and support.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361835#361835
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
rv10flyer wrote:
>
> I do like having my ap independent. I am hoping GRT has the charts option soon.
I am happy with the glitch-free GRT products and support.
I have charts in my HX right now... Is there something different you are talking
about?
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361837#361837
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
I believe what Wayne is referring to is the VFR sectionals, IFR low en-route
charts/maps and AFD now available
On the New AFS 5600 and 5500 screens. I have been flying these new screens
for 10 hours and they are loaded with features. Attached are some picture of
the VFR sectional on the left screen and the other picture shows the
Rubber band feature move the joy stick to a location on the chart and it
gives you the heading and distance
Pretty cool.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 10:21 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS...
-->
rv10flyer wrote:
>
> I do like having my ap independent. I am hoping GRT has the charts option
soon. I am happy with the glitch-free GRT products and support.
I have charts in my HX right now... Is there something different you are
talking about?
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361837#361837
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
When I was doing my EFIS hunting I found three issues with the Dynon that do not
exist with the GRT, AFS, or Garmin suites.
1. Dynon does not have an XM WX interface
2. The Dynon in-house required A/P is not independent, therefore not usable if
the EFIS fails
3. No vertical guidance to the A/P so you can't do a complete coupled approach.
Otherwise the Skyview is a capable unit at a good price.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - Working G3X panel
Rest almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361859#361859
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I'd be interested in comments from folks that have flown with both XM and
ADSB weather. I expect XM is so yesterday and will disappear in a few years
when ADSB In weather is widely available for free, since we will need all
the XM bucks to go to paying FAA for the database updates. But things may
change.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:34 PM, nukeflyboy wrote:
>
> When I was doing my EFIS hunting I found three issues with the Dynon that
> do not exist with the GRT, AFS, or Garmin suites.
> 1. Dynon does not have an XM WX interface
> 2. The Dynon in-house required A/P is not independent, therefore not
> usable if the EFIS fails
> 3. No vertical guidance to the A/P so you can't do a complete coupled
> approach.
> Otherwise the Skyview is a capable unit at a good price.
>
> --------
> Dave Moore
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 QB - Working G3X panel
> Rest almost done
>
>
> _
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
Don't recall on the XM, but Dyon is working on getting ADSB-IN, and
vertical guidance on A/P. If you are flying it IFR you likely will do
dual ADHRS and dual backup batteries, so you will have two control heads
for A/P, which is one more than you have with standalone.
On 12/28/2011 3:34 PM, nukeflyboy wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "nukeflyboy"
>
> When I was doing my EFIS hunting I found three issues with the Dynon that do
not exist with the GRT, AFS, or Garmin suites.
> 1. Dynon does not have an XM WX interface
> 2. The Dynon in-house required A/P is not independent, therefore not usable
if the EFIS fails
> 3. No vertical guidance to the A/P so you can't do a complete coupled approach.
> Otherwise the Skyview is a capable unit at a good price.
>
> --------
December 06, 2011 - December 28, 2011
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-in