RV10-Archive.digest.vol-jb
October 28, 2012 - November 19, 2012
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386134#386134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tabs Measurements? |
I've had tabs in the tanks for a few years. They're great to have. I just
bent up an assembly out of stainless and prosealed it to the back of the
tank. The tabs are about .75" square.
I wanted one about mid way and one down just a few gallons. After they
were installed I calibrated them at the fuel island. For my installation,
the mid tab gives me about 18 gallons and the upper tab is at 28 gallons.
Since it's 10 gallons between tabs, it's pretty easy to gauge the quantity.
We usually fill to the top tabs after each flight. That's just our way of
managing the fuel bill. That said, it's kind of helpful to keep it down a
little since when the tanks are full, it's pretty easy to vent fuel onto
the floor when it warms up. And being down 2 gallons doesn't matter on too
many flights.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Ed Kranz wrote:
> I'm just getting ready to rivet the fuel cap flanges into my tanks, and
> I'd like to have (visual level inspection) tabs in my tanks. I was thinking
> a good level would be at 20 gallons. I don't suppose anyone with a flying
> plane has a measurement from the tank skin to the fuel level with 20
> gallons in their tanks, do they?
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tips installing lockable fuel caps |
The installation works well. One note though, we installed ours about 3
years/600 hours ago and now the lock has worn to the point where it doesn't
engage the key well enough to always pull the cap out. We have a spare key
we never use and it doesn't work too well either, so I'm pretty sure it's
the lock inside the cap that's worn.
We can get it out with a little jiggling and body english but it's just a
matter of time until it fails. I guess if we can't repair the lock we'll
need to get new caps.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Mike Whisky wrote:
>
> Hi there again,
> I purchased Vans lockable fuel caps and although I don't see any issue
> installing it I wanted to check with the group if there is anything to be
> aware of when glueing in the flange.
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (interior & finishing)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386134#386134
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rapco brakes pads at vansaircrafttires |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Just ordered a set from Desser. I got 190 hobbs hrs out of the original set. I
hope that the new set lasts longer with the new formulation. At $80 a set - (delivered)
they are certainly no bargain. I guess that they are priced for the
certified (big bucks) market.
How many hrs are the rest of you getting out of your pads or is 190-200 hrs average?
--------
See you OSH '13
Q/B - flying 3 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386162#386162
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Optimal Temperatures and fuel burn |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Thanks all of you for the comments especially Don. I think that I will try a flow
restrictor on the oil cooler air intake.
--------
See you OSH '13
Q/B - flying 3 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386166#386166
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tabs Measurements? |
| From: | "Nick Leonard" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
I installed a tab about 2.5 inches down from the fuel cap (top skin). It does
two things; I can see the fuel easier as the tank gets near the top and it gives
me a a way to tell when I'm within about two gallons from the top. This is
very helpful on hot days to keep the fuel from expanding overboard.
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386173#386173
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Simonton" <simie1(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rapco brakes pads at vansaircrafttires |
In the process of doing the brakes on the -10 I fly ---- 135 hrs and the
pads look like they are good for several more hrs --- decided to change them
out as I had a leaky piston. I thought I had the correct pads in stock, but
found out they would not fit ---- had to order from Van's (88.00+shipping).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Johnson <bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com> |
I know this has been discussed-recently, but who is getting good rate on
their insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
who are you with and what's the total they now want? Thanks!
Date: Mon=2C 29 Oct 2012 10:09:10 -0700
From: bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com
Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
I know this has been discussed recently=2C but who is getting good rate on
their insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
Skysmith has treated me well for quotes
On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Bruce Johnson wrot
e:
> I know this has been discussed recently, but who is getting good rate on t
heir insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
>
>
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve T <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com> |
We went with Jenny at Nationair. Great lady.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 29, 2012, at 12:09, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> I know this has been discussed recently, but who is getting good rate on t
heir insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard McBride <rick.mcbride(at)me.com> |
And their service for my total loss at Sun 'n Fun's tornado last year was exemplary!
Rick McBride
On Oct 29, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Steve T wrote:
> We went with Jenny at Nationair. Great lady.
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 29, 2012, at 12:09, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>> I know this has been discussed recently, but who is getting good rate on their
insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Priming my wheel pants
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
I had Jenny at NationAir, until Tom Johnson at Airpower have me a much bette
r quote. Try them at
(866) 475-9199
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 29, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Steve T wrote:
> We went with Jenny at Nationair. Great lady.
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 29, 2012, at 12:09, Bruce Johnson wrote
:
>
>> I know this has been discussed recently, but who is getting good rate on t
heir insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
Yeah. Buy a good quality one .... major brand name. Drill pilot
holes. Use Boelube on screws going into nutplates. Don't let it bog
down .... locked-rotor current is really high.
Linn
On 10/29/2012 1:28 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Priming my wheel pants
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
I purchased these based on an RV-List recommendation and have been very happy with
the pair. I have not used the impact driver much as I have another impact
driver but the drill has been really nice to use and the units are smaller/lighter
than a standard drill drivers so you fatigue less when working long hours.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045JK3GI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Priming my wheel pants
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
I guess I should qualify that... I'm looking for a make/model suggestion. An employee
of mine burned the last one out trying to get a fat deck screw out of an
old wall stud.
I haven't been happy with what I've had so far. The most recent, a Black and Decker,
had a poorly located reverse switch that always got bumped at just the wrong
time.
On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Linn wrote:
>
> Yeah. Buy a good quality one .... major brand name. Drill pilot holes. Use
Boelube on screws going into nutplates. Don't let it bog down .... locked-rotor
current is really high.
> Linn
>
> On 10/29/2012 1:28 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>>
>> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> Priming my wheel pants
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
I had to go out to the shop and check .....
All of the ones I use most are B&D ..... I have the 3.6V versapak screw
driver and two drills, one 18V and one 24V. I also have a 1/2" corded
Makita hammer/drill that I use for heavier work. I wouldn't buy a
screwdriver that didn't have a replaceable battery. The battery drills
far outlast their battery packs.
Linn
On 10/29/2012 2:04 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> I guess I should qualify that... I'm looking for a make/model suggestion. An
employee of mine burned the last one out trying to get a fat deck screw out of
an old wall stud.
>
> I haven't been happy with what I've had so far. The most recent, a Black and
Decker, had a poorly located reverse switch that always got bumped at just the
wrong time.
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Linn wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah. Buy a good quality one .... major brand name. Drill pilot holes. Use
Boelube on screws going into nutplates. Don't let it bog down .... locked-rotor
current is really high.
>> Linn
>>
>> On 10/29/2012 1:28 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>>>
>>> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>> 40304
>>> Priming my wheel pants
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Johnson <bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com> |
Air Power is my Agent and Britt/Paulk is the carrier. The new-premium-i
s $2750.00=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Danny Riggs <j
driggs49(at)msn.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, October 29
, 2012 10:17 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: Insurance=0A =0A=0A =0Awho are yo
u with and what's the total they now want?- Thanks!=0A=0A=0A=0A__________
______________________=0ADate: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:09:10 -0700=0AFrom: bruc
e1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com=0ASubject: RV10-List: Insurance=0ATo: rv10-list@matro
nics.com=0A=0A=0AI know this has been discussed-recently, but who is gett
ing good rate on their insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $4
00.00 this year. -=0Aarget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
RV10-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A="_blank">http://www.matronics.
====================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
This has been discussed before, but just to say it again:
There are very few insurance companies (Chartis, Global, AVEMCO) that will write
coverage for RV's.
Except for AVEMCO, you need to go thru an independent broker or agent to get coverage.
The broker works for you. You should be having frank and open conversations with
your broker about what you want. Do you want the best price regardless of anything
else? What features (coverage in AK? Multiple pilots?) are important to
you? Is the insurance company's stability and track record important to you?
Is their history of paying (or not paying!) claims important to you?
Many of us don't really do this, and just leave it to the broker to do what they
think is best. A prime example is the recent re-entry of another company quoting
RV's. NationAir has stated that they didn't feel this company was stable
enough to recommend to their clients, and so did not quote them. It turns out
this was a good call, as this company has stopped issuing policies. Or was it?
Maybe you could have saved some money for one year, although now you're shopping
again. Do you think your broker exercised good judgement in looking out for
you, or do you disagree? These are tough questions for those of us who are not
in the know. And of course hindsight is always 20-20, especially if we had
no claims.
So, was your previous policy with Britt Paulk? If so it was likely at a lower rate
but it won't get renewed. Is that the reason for the $400 increase?
Finally AVEMCO is a special case. They use only their own in-house agents, you
need to contact them directly to get a quote. I did, they were very much more
expensive for slightly less coverage. But they did send me a very nice baseball
cap.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386219#386219
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
As of 11/1 britt Paulk is not selling/ renewing aviation policies. Underwri
ters that my agent spoke with are already looking for other opportunities.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 29, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote
:
Air Power is my Agent and Britt/Paulk is the carrier. The new premium is $27
50.00
From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insurance
who are you with and what's the total they now want? Thanks!
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:09:10 -0700
From: bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com
Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
I know this has been discussed recently, but who is getting good rate on the
ir insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<===========
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
One of the best power tools I have ever purchased was a Black & Decker 1/4"
drive ratchet It is Lithium Ion powered and holds a wonderful charge. If
they just make an Apex driver that is similar construction, you could use
all of the 1/4" hex bits now created. The cheapest bit set is the HF drill
bit kit which fits right in the 1/4 drive hex.
John Cox
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Priming my wheel pants
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
| From: | Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
Very nice indeed!
On the price side exteme, I paid $15.99 at lowes for a kobalt 12v drill and it
has lasted 2 years of plenum, cowl on and off work
Once I break it I'll look for another one.
On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> I purchased these based on an RV-List recommendation and have been very happy
with the pair. I have not used the impact driver much as I have another impact
driver but the drill has been really nice to use and the units are smaller/lighter
than a standard drill drivers so you fatigue less when working long hours.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045JK3GI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
>
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:29 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
>
>
> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Priming my wheel pants
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
I purchased this one recently and I like it. It directly takes an apex bit,
has very low torque settings, and a light. Plus it's pretty cheap! The do
wnside is the light only comes on when the drill is turning (it would be nic
e if a half pull would turn it on first). Overall a good value in my opinio
n.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-203233910/h_d2/ProductDisplay
?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ryobi&storeId=10051#.UI8iKRK9LCQ
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 29, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Pascal wrote:
>
> Very nice indeed!
> On the price side exteme, I paid $15.99 at lowes for a kobalt 12v drill an
d it has lasted 2 years of plenum, cowl on and off work
> Once I break it I'll look for another one.
>
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
>>
>> I purchased these based on an RV-List recommendation and have been very h
appy with the pair. I have not used the impact driver much as I have another
impact driver but the drill has been really nice to use and the units are s
maller/lighter than a standard drill drivers so you fatigue less when workin
g long hours.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045JK3GI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:29 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
>>
>>
>> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> Priming my wheel pants
>
>
==========================
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=========
==========================
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=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
I went to Lowes today and was told that one I bought was on clearance, back
when I bought it. They are no longer available or sold by Lowes.
There was a black and decker one there but it was more expensive. the best
one was the dewalt and the Porter cable, as Robin mentioned. Both right
around 100 range (without the battery)
-----Original Message-----
From: Pascal
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
Very nice indeed!
On the price side exteme, I paid $15.99 at lowes for a kobalt 12v drill and
it has lasted 2 years of plenum, cowl on and off work
Once I break it I'll look for another one.
On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> I purchased these based on an RV-List recommendation and have been very
> happy with the pair. I have not used the impact driver much as I have
> another impact driver but the drill has been really nice to use and the
> units are smaller/lighter than a standard drill drivers so you fatigue
> less when working long hours.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045JK3GI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
>
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:29 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
>
>
> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Priming my wheel pants
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com> |
I recently obtained coverage for my RV-10 thru Williamsburg National for a $175K
value for $1790/year. This was a significant reduction from last year but I
had also obtained my instrument ticket plus had more than 300 hours as PIC on
the 10. I did not, however, do much research on the company. Jay Rowe ---- Bruce
Johnson wrote:
> I know this has been discussedrecently, but who is getting good rate on their
insurance. Mine is up and they want an additional $400.00 this year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
Sam Butler here in Pecan bought one from Costco,,, cheap and works great.
=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Pascal <rv10flyer
(at)live.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, October 29, 2012
10:32 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers=0A =0A--> RV1
0-List message posted by: "Pascal" =0A=0AI went to Lowe
s today and was told that one I bought was on clearance, back =0Awhen I bou
ght it. They are no longer available or sold by Lowes.=0AThere was a black
and decker one there but it was more expensive. the best =0Aone was the dew
alt and the Porter cable, as Robin mentioned. Both right =0Aaround 100 rang
e (without the battery)=0A=0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: Pascal=0AS
ent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:47 PM=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubje
ct: Re: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers=0A=0A--> RV10-List message pos
ted by: Pascal =0A=0AVery nice indeed!=0AOn the price s
ide exteme, I paid $15.99 at lowes for a kobalt 12v drill and =0Ait has las
ted 2 years of plenum, cowl on and off work=0AOnce I break it I'll look for
another one.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Oct 29, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Robin Marks =0A>=0A> I purchased these based on an RV-List recom
mendation and have been very =0A> happy with the pair. I have not used the
impact driver much as I have =0A> another impact driver but the drill has b
een really nice to use and the =0A> units are smaller/lighter than a standa
rd drill drivers so you fatigue =0A> less when working long hours.=0A>=0A>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045JK3GI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00=0A
>=0A> Robin=0A>=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-rv10-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com =0A> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] O
n Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter=0A> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:29 AM=0A>
ess.com>=0A>=0A> I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?=0A>
=0A> Jeff Carpenter=0A> 40304=0A> Priming my wheel pants=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Speaking of insurance, who gave best deal on insurance of un-completed kit.
I'm beginning to get to where the risk is high enough I could use coverage
against fire and theft.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:39 PM, wrote:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
| From: | Bill Watson <mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
More tools can be better.
I picked up a small lithium one from Costco 6 years ago. I think it drove e
very screw on my 10 twice. It's relatively fast, one speed, no ratchet. St
ill use it for disassembly only.
Picked up a small Ryobi with ratchet ( not sure of proper term). I now use i
t for all screws unless the faster Costco is at hand for disassembly. I lik
e the ratchet for a consistent Assembly.
I don't use the little drivers or any electric for drilling. Air only for m
e.
Anyway, I just did 12 hours of traveling the past week including some ops ar
ound Sandy's perimeter. The 10 Rocks!
Bill
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 29, 2012, at 11:44 PM, Don McDonald wrot
e:
> Sam Butler here in Pecan bought one from Costco,,, cheap and works great.
>
> From: Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
>
>
> I went to Lowes today and was told that one I bought was on clearance, bac
k
> when I bought it. They are no longer available or sold by Lowes.
> There was a black and decker one there but it was more expensive. the best
> one was the dewalt and the Porter cable, as Robin mentioned. Both right
> around 100 range (without the battery)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pascal
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:47 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
>
>
> Very nice indeed!
> On the price side exteme, I paid $15.99 at lowes for a kobalt 12v drill an
d
> it has lasted 2 years of plenum, cowl on and off work
> Once I break it I'll look for another one.
>
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> >
> > I purchased these based on an RV-List recommendation and have been very
> > happy with the pair. I have not used the impact driver much as I have
> > another impact driver but the drill has been really nice to use and the
> > units are smaller/lighter than a standard drill drivers so you fatigue
> > less when working long hours.
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045JK3GI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
> >
> > Robin
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpente
r
> > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:29 AM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: Rechargeable Screwdrivers
> >
> >
> > I've just burned out my second one. Any suggestions?
> >
> > Jeff Carpenter
> > 40304
> > Priming my wheel pants
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> &/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matr
on ==================
=====
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
Kelley, just get the dang plane finished!--- (--;=0A-=0ADon McDonal
d=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Kelly McMullen <apilot
2(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, October 29, 201
2 11:13 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance=0A =0A=0ASpeaking of insura
nce, who gave best deal on insurance of un-completed kit. I'm beginning to
get to where the risk is high enough I could use coverage against fire and
theft.=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:39 PM, wrot
========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Don. Should be done on Thursday, some week, some month, some year.
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Don McDonald wrote:
> Kelly, just get the dang plane finished! (--;
>
> Don McDonald
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve T <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com> |
That's when ours got done too! :)
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 30, 2012, at 9:07, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Thanks Don. Should be done on Thursday, some week, some month, some year.
>
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Don McDonald
wrote:
> Kelly, just get the dang plane finished! (--;
>
> Don McDonald
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Mine too!!!
Linn .... wiring .....
On 10/30/2012 10:07 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Thanks Don. Should be done on Thursday, some week, some month, some year.
>
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Don McDonald
> > wrote:
>
> Kelly, just get the dang plane finished! (--;
> Don McDonald
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tabs Measurements? |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
Sorry, no measurement for 20 gallons. With fuel flow and floats we are very confident
in fuel status. I know that you have about 6 gallons remaining when fuel
level is at bottom of tank directly beneath filler. That is as low as I usually
go and provides me with one hour+ reserve.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386306#386306
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rechargeable Screwdrivers |
From Michael, this is the Ryobi referenced below:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-203233910/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ryobi&storeId=10051#.UI8iKRK9LCQ
Yes, it would be nice if the light could be activated before activating
the driver but still nice.
...but the 9.6 volt advertised on the same page is a waste of $$$. Not
a good screw driver, not enough power for drilling, too little capacity
between charges.
Bill
On 10/30/2012 12:49 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> More tools can be better.
> I picked up a small lithium one from Costco 6 years ago. I think it
> drove every screw on my 10 twice. It's relatively fast, one speed, no
> ratchet. Still use it for disassembly only.
>
> Picked up a small Ryobi with ratchet ( not sure of proper term). I
> now use it for all screws unless the faster Costco is at hand for
> disassembly. I like the ratchet for a consistent Assembly.
>
> I don't use the little drivers or any electric for drilling. Air only
> for me.
>
> Anyway, I just did 12 hours of traveling the past week including some
> ops around Sandy's perimeter. The 10 Rocks!
>
> Bill
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest 2012 |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
Thanks to all who participated. We fed 43 people. We missed several regulars,
but met some new friends. I believe 9 total rv10's were on the ramp at one time
or another. Van's had a big crowd around the 14.
Geoff's airplane is even nicer than expected. Vender's thought total show attendance
was down a bit, but a couple mentioned more serious buyers than previous
years.
Not sure yet about next year, but this year was enjoyable.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386345#386345
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net> |
I switched to Falcon Insurance Agency for my RV-10 project (and my RV-6A
flying coverage) when my previous agent ignored requests for an RV-10
builder's insurance quote. Falcon's rates seem in line with what others
are getting (currently $1775 for $130K hull, 300 hours in RV-10, with
instrument rating). Falcon has been very responsive when I've needed
customer service (adding employer as additional insured, for example).
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 350 hrs
Kelly McMullen said the following on 10/30/2012 12:13 AM:
> Speaking of insurance, who gave best deal on insurance of un-completed
> kit. I'm beginning to get to where the risk is high enough I could use
> coverage against fire and theft.
>
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:39 PM, > wrote:
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's through solely
through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are
possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web
sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line.
I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com> |
Hi all
Question for those who have installed Vans electric aileron trim, is
there any reason the servo can not go in the right wing instead of the
left?
Thx, Rick
Finish & FWF kits enroute
#40956
Southampton, Ont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
You will have to mirror image the plans........;-)
I don't know of any reason, other than roll servo is usually installed
in right wing, which shouldn't make much difference.
Not visualizing what advantage either wing would have, but have decided
to defer getting aileron trim until have flown for awhile to decide if
the perceived benefit merits the cost and labor.
On 11/2/2012 7:38 AM, Rick Lark wrote:
> Hi all
> Question for those who have installed Vans electric aileron trim, is
> there any reason the servo can not go in the right wing instead of the
> left?
> Thx, Rick
> Finish & FWF kits enroute
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont.
> *
>
>
> *
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
Depending on how often you fly alone and how far, I have used my trim, but
the truth is I dont see a real benefit to it. I use the fuel on the left
side first and that usually balances out the plane for me, I have a tab on
the rudder, works fine for me. No regrets with not adding a electric rudder
trim. My point, You're are right on Kelly. Wait and see if you need it, just
as I did with the rudder trim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: aileron trim
You will have to mirror image the plans........;-)
I don't know of any reason, other than roll servo is usually installed
in right wing, which shouldn't make much difference.
Not visualizing what advantage either wing would have, but have decided
to defer getting aileron trim until have flown for awhile to decide if
the perceived benefit merits the cost and labor.
On 11/2/2012 7:38 AM, Rick Lark wrote:
> Hi all
> Question for those who have installed Vans electric aileron trim, is there
> any reason the servo can not go in the right wing instead of the left?
> Thx, Rick
> Finish & FWF kits enroute
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont.
> *
>
>
> *
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
I use my aileron trim on a regular basis and would definitely do it again if I
was building another -10. This airplane is more sensitive to lateral imbalance
than any other light plane I have flown. I definitely would not install rudder
trim if I was building again. I rarely use it.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386556#386556
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
| From: | Kevin Belue <kdbelue(at)charter.net> |
Wow! That is the exact opposite for my plane. I don't use the aileron trim but
need rudder trim all the time....
Kevin Belue
RV10
RV6A
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 2, 2012, at 11:04 AM, "dmaib(at)me.com" wrote:
>
> I use my aileron trim on a regular basis and would definitely do it again if
I was building another -10. This airplane is more sensitive to lateral imbalance
than any other light plane I have flown. I definitely would not install rudder
trim if I was building again. I rarely use it.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
> Transition Trainer
> New Smyrna Beach, FL
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386556#386556
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
I love my rudder trim and use it all the time. I did the same to the 8A and once
out of paint the rudder trim was inop and I miss it a lot. I will track down
the 8A issue shortly and get back to coordinated flight with my feet on the floor.
http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/RudderTrim.aspx
Keep in mind you are building a superior cross country machine which means long
flights. If you only have one ball you might as well center it. :-)
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Belue
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: aileron trim
Wow! That is the exact opposite for my plane. I don't use the aileron trim but
need rudder trim all the time....
Kevin Belue
RV10
RV6A
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 2, 2012, at 11:04 AM, "dmaib(at)me.com" wrote:
>
> I use my aileron trim on a regular basis and would definitely do it again if
I was building another -10. This airplane is more sensitive to lateral imbalance
than any other light plane I have flown. I definitely would not install rudder
trim if I was building again. I rarely use it.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
> Transition Trainer
> New Smyrna Beach, FL
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386556#386556
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
I use both rudder and aileron trim when hand flying and rudder trim when on
AP. If I was building another 10 I would definitely put both in. The
aileron trim is much more important when solo.....
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmaib(at)me.com
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 10:05 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: aileron trim
I use my aileron trim on a regular basis and would definitely do it again if
I was building another -10. This airplane is more sensitive to lateral
imbalance than any other light plane I have flown. I definitely would not
install rudder trim if I was building again. I rarely use it.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386556#386556
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I use my aileron trim every time I fly. I can't believe how sensitive this airframe
is to fuel imbalance and passenger load. I like the option of having my
Aerosport rudder trim, but I set it a while back and it hasn't moved in a while.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386584#386584
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund
Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Air box mod to fix filter deformation |
All,
This is a mod to the air box I did on the RV-10, and just now back fitted
onto the RV-8A.
Over the years with the RV-8A I've had to repair the air box and replace the
filter. As you can see from the first photo, the bottom of the filter
deforms (curves in). This tends to shorten the filter such that it drops
out of the top and impairs the seal with the top plate. I also had to add
fiberglass to the bottom of the air box as the relative motion between the
bottom of the air filter the air box eroded away the fiberglass bottom.
The fix was to add a .032" aluminum plate to the bottom of the air box. The
plate eliminates the bottom erosion and the added brackets hold the filter
shape. A side benefit is that alternate air door now sandwiches the bottom
fiberglass between two piece of metal making a sturdier install. I also
took the step to add proseal between the aluminum plate and the air box
bottom.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
Listers,
I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it
may be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If
that is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away,
or can I just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
Ed Godfrey
40717
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | Bill Watson <mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
As I recall, the shiny parts are where they missed with the peel ply. The matte
areas are where they properly did lay down some peel ply. On mine, there were
bits of peel ply that didn't get peeled. Application of a flame will quickly
char and burn it away (thanks Dave).
The whole mishmash of finishes had me so vexed that I decided to cover it all with
fabric so I don't have a clue as to what to do except to cover it.
Bill
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
Oh wow. That photo nearly made me turn green as my stomach rolled over.
It's like looking at an old photograph you can't stand.
With all the fiberglass stuff, you want to sand the high spots off first
and then fill the lows second. So get out the sanding block and sand it
down until you're left with a few obvious low spots and then fill those.
You'll probably want to mark the lows with a sharpie (so you know where
they are) and then rough them up with sandpaper so the filler will have
something to bond to. It won't stick to a shiny surface very well.
Phil
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
> question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
> the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may
> be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that
> is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I
> just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
Yeah. I have sanded mine down (and filled it too) to the point where I at
least like the profile of the cabin top.
I'm using Geoff's headliner in the back.
2 weeks ago I covered everything that Geoff's headliner didn't cover with
blue painters tape. Then a couple of coats of wax. Then two layers of
carbon. (Had to use carbon to get it stiff enough). And I built inserts
that I will wrap in headliner material and velcro against the inside of the
cabin top.
I'm still in the finishing processes of it, but I'm going to be on the road
for a next 3 weeks. I won't know exactly how it turned out until Dec.
Phil
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> As I recall, the shiny parts are where they missed with the peel ply. The
> matte areas are where they properly did lay down some peel ply. On mine,
> there were bits of peel ply that didn't get peeled. Application of a flame
> will quickly char and burn it away (thanks Dave).
>
> The whole mishmash of finishes had me so vexed that I decided to cover it
> all with fabric so I don't have a clue as to what to do except to cover it.
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
> > Listers,
> > I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
> question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
> the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it
> may be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If
> that is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or
> can I just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed Godfrey
> > 40717
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Bill's right, that's most likely an area that never had peel-ply over it.
If it does turn out to still have some on it, you should be able to get
ahold of an edge and tear it off. In that area, it wouldn't hurt to just
leave some peel ply there but that's not really the best practice. It
looks to me like it's just plain glass though.
I'd sand it with some 80 grit and finish it however you like. That's
another way to find the peel ply--if the edges ball up when you sand it,
you'll know it's peel-ply.
I painted some of those hard-to-finish areas with truck bed liner. Turned
out pretty well.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
> question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
> the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may
> be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that
> is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I
> just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
Ed,
As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first recommendation
is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover up
more area.
I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available. I found
it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of filling
and sanding to get everything smooth.
Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot easier
to work on upside down on the bench.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside of
the airplane. Sand and fill
As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot of elbow grease but when done it
will look much better
Than doing minimal work. There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part
sprayable body filler. Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray a
good heavy coat on the entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back
to the raw fiber glass and do it one more time. Then it should be very close
to final paint. Do all this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but do
everything
Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what ever you want
before installing.
Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
FWIW
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>
> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of filling
and sanding to get everything smooth.
>
> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>
> Bob
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
>> Listers,
>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
I came to the conclusion that we had to fill, sand & paint once we opted for the
OH console. I just could not imagine dealing with a headliner and transitioning
from headliner to all the window cut outs as well as the OH console and potentially
all the switches, vents, lights... That was my version of K.I.S.S. and
in this case less is more. I am still happy with the choice. Of course my preference
as always is to have Geoff figure it out first and then follow suit
but we started building too soon. :-)
http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Console.aspx
The painted lid and Aerosport Products interior panels gets you one nice interior.
Robin
-->
I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside of
the airplane. Sand and fill As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot of
elbow grease but when done it will look much better Than doing minimal work.
There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part sprayable body filler.
Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray a good heavy coat on the entire
inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back to the raw fiber glass
and do it one more time. Then it should be very close to final paint. Do all
this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but do
everything Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what
ever you want before installing.
Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
FWIW
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>
> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of filling
and sanding to get everything smooth.
>
> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>
> Bob
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
>> Listers,
>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
Follow exactly what Robin did and then add then add headliner if you wish. As Robin
said less can be more.
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 10:46 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> I came to the conclusion that we had to fill, sand & paint once we opted for
the OH console. I just could not imagine dealing with a headliner and transitioning
from headliner to all the window cut outs as well as the OH console and
potentially all the switches, vents, lights... That was my version of K.I.S.S.
and in this case less is more. I am still happy with the choice. Of course my
preference as always is to have Geoff figure it out first and then follow suit
but we started building too soon. :-)
> http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Console.aspx
> The painted lid and Aerosport Products interior panels gets you one nice interior.
>
> Robin
>
> -->
>
> I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside
of the airplane. Sand and fill As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot
of elbow grease but when done it will look much better Than doing minimal work.
There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part sprayable body filler.
Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray a good heavy coat on the
entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back to the raw fiber glass
and do it one more time. Then it should be very close to final paint. Do all
this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
> If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but
do everything Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what
ever you want before installing.
> Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
>
> FWIW
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>>
>> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of
filling and sanding to get everything smooth.
>>
>> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>>
>> Bob
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>
>>> Listers,
>>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
Oh boy. 2-3 days???
I must be doing something terribly wrong. I'm 2-3 months into sanding,
filling, and shaping.
I must be too much of a perfectionist, because it looks like it still has
work to do according to my eye.
Phil
> > -->
> >
> > I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the
> outside of the airplane. Sand and fill As required. *It will take 2-3
> days and a lot of elbow grease* but when done it will look much better
> Than doing minimal work. There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2
> part sprayable body filler. Once you work out the real bad spots and sand
> spray a good heavy coat on the entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out
> almost back to the raw fiber glass and do it one more time. Then it should
> be very close to final paint. Do all this before attaching the cabin top to
> the fuse.
> > If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the
> console but do everything Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install
> lights or what ever you want before installing.
> > Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
> >
> > FWIW
> >
> > Geoff
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Hi Carlos.
To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
tab cut out of the rudder.
I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
autopilot and engine monitor.
Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do someday.
Linn
On 11/4/2012 6:45 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Since this thread has begun being about the Aileron trim, and someone
> mentioned also the Rudder trim, can somebody please confirm if there
> is an optional electric Rudder trim for the -10, and where can I find it.
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
took me 6 months to complete the doors.. it was painful, Now is a good
time to tell you when you get this done do NOT fit the doors without the
seals on first. It will take another month to get them to close
correctly if the doors are installed without them first.
From: Phillip Perry
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion please
Oh boy. 2-3 days???
I must be doing something terribly wrong. I'm 2-3 months into sanding,
filling, and shaping.
I must be too much of a perfectionist, because it looks like it still
has work to do according to my eye.
Phil
> -->
>
> I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like
the outside of the airplane. Sand and fill As required. It will take 2-3
days and a lot of elbow grease but when done it will look much better
Than doing minimal work. There is a spray primer called duratec the is a
2 part sprayable body filler. Once you work out the real bad spots and
sand spray a good heavy coat on the entire inside of the cabin top.
Block it out almost back to the raw fiber glass and do it one more time.
Then it should be very close to final paint. Do all this before
attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
> If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the
console but do everything Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top
install lights or what ever you want before installing.
> Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
>
> FWIW
>
> Geoff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
Take a look at Aerosport Products rudder trim. It's simple and doesn't req
uire any major modifications to the airframe. It can be installed in under
an hour.
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 8:36 AM, Linn wrote:
> Hi Carlos.
> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims I've
seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by hinges ope
rated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable tab cut out of
the rudder.
>
> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS thingy i
s starting to look pretty darn good.
> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is look
ing better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with autopilo
t and engine monitor.
>
> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on th
e ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to build up a
mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the servos, write the c
ode and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5. Why? Because I can. But i
t seems like anytime I deviate from the plans it adds 6 months to the build t
ime. Some longer. At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to
build the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying.
Which I still hope to do someday.
> Linn
>
> On 11/4/2012 6:45 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>> Guys
>>
>> Since this thread has begun being about the Aileron trim, and someone men
tioned also the Rudder trim, can somebody please confirm if there is an opti
onal electric Rudder trim for the -10, and where can I find it.
>>
>> Regards
>> Carlos
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
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of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
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Make sure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate
the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Best regards,
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there every day.
The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding & filling.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386892#386892
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Lynn,
Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
simpler.
But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
painful than it is.
But where you really lose it is this line:
"At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
flying."
You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
opinions will become much more valuable.
My personal feelings on trim:
Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
everyone should have speed control and I personally
believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
should be mandatory install.
Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
it's likely to be something that people will like.
Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
want to mess with a control surface too much that I
plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
is about as simple as it gets if you have an
electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
Tim
On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
> Hi Carlos.
> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
> tab cut out of the rudder.
>
> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
> autopilot and engine monitor.
>
> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do someday.
> Linn
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to
convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had
on /_my_/ build time.
I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
that are!!!!
On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Lynn,
>
> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
> simpler.
>
> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
> painful than it is.
>
> But where you really lose it is this line:
>
> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
> flying."
>
> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
> opinions will become much more valuable.
>
>
> My personal feelings on trim:
>
> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>
> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
> everyone should have speed control and I personally
> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
> should be mandatory install.
>
> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
> it's likely to be something that people will like.
> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
>> Hi Carlos.
>> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
>> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
>> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
>> tab cut out of the rudder.
>>
>> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
>> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
>> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
>> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
>> autopilot and engine monitor.
>>
>> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
>> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
>> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
>> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
>> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
>> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
>> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
>> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
>> someday.
>> Linn
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
I should state I went about 100 hours without rudder trim. I waited for
Geoff (Aerosport Products) to make his rudder trim for the RV-10. After
installing it I have used it a lot and really like it for long climb
outs or slow descents. Mostly just to have my right foot on the ground.
A great by product was the springs holding the rudder from banging
around in the wind. Before the trim I used to hurry and stick in the
rudder pedal gust lock but now I really don't have to at all unless the
wind is 15+.
----- Original Message -----
From: Linn
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim
Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you
deviate from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my
build time significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again.
I'm trying to build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I
wanted to convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the
impact it's had on my build time.
I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
that are!!!!
On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
Lynn,
Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
simpler.
But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
painful than it is.
But where you really lose it is this line:
"At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
flying."
You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
opinions will become much more valuable.
My personal feelings on trim:
Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
everyone should have speed control and I personally
believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
should be mandatory install.
Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
it's likely to be something that people will like.
Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
want to mess with a control surface too much that I
plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
is about as simple as it gets if you have an
electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
Tim
On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
Hi Carlos.
To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder
trims
I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed
by
hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a
moveable
tab cut out of the rudder.
I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges
is
looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels
with
autopilot and engine monitor.
Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type
trim on
the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had
to
build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate
the
servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to
5.
Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the
plans
it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in
the
build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and
deal
with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to
do someday.
Linn
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/05/12
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Hey Lynn,
No prob. I do get the point that mods add time. I wasn't
happy to have to be one of the early people to deal with
the fuel lines/valve install and things like that, without
may people's examples to look at.
That VAF link you sent is basically my (actuall Vic S's)
rudder trim. It took me one night to cut the hole and
add the doubler and servo. I guess add another evening
for getting the parts painted and ready. But, it was pretty
easy. It wasn't super cheap just because I bought the
Ray Allen parts, but otherwise was not at all complicated
and works really well at least, so the reward paid off.
I think for many things, building per-plans is the best
way to go. There are a handful of things though where
I'm pretty glad I deviated. I was flying in something
like 1700 hours, and probably could have in 1500-1600 if
I hadn't deviated at all. But I'm much happier with my
end result. :)
Happy building!
Tim
On 11/5/2012 9:22 AM, Linn wrote:
> Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
> I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
> My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
> from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
> significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
> build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to
> convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had
> on /_my_/ build time.
>
> I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
> offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
>
> I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
> from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
> consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
> bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
> That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
> just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
> as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
> camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
>
> Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
> that are!!!!
>
>
> On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
>> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
>> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
>> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
>> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
>> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
>> simpler.
>>
>> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
>> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
>> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
>> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
>> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
>> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
>> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
>> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
>> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
>> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
>> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
>> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
>> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
>> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
>> painful than it is.
>>
>> But where you really lose it is this line:
>>
>> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
>> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
>> flying."
>>
>> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
>> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
>> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
>> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
>> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
>> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
>> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
>> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
>> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
>> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
>> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
>> opinions will become much more valuable.
>>
>>
>> My personal feelings on trim:
>>
>> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
>> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
>> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
>> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>>
>> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
>> everyone should have speed control and I personally
>> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
>> should be mandatory install.
>>
>> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
>> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
>> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
>> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
>> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
>> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
>> it's likely to be something that people will like.
>> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
>> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
>> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
>> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
>> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
>> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
>> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
>> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
>> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
>> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
>> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
>> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
>> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
>> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
>>> Hi Carlos.
>>> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
>>> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
>>> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
>>> tab cut out of the rudder.
>>>
>>> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
>>> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
>>> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
>>> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
>>> autopilot and engine monitor.
>>>
>>> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
>>> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
>>> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
>>> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
>>> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
>>> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
>>> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
>>> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
>>> someday.
>>> Linn
>>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
I respect Tim so I=99ll respond here from my perspective. Been
flying for a year- 109 flight hours; just did my conditional inspection.
After 1 year of flying I=99ll state the following. The Stock is
fine but it sure lacks numerous required upgrades however. I was blessed
to have met Don McDonald during my build, a real guru with parts, he
made numerous parts, that (may) still be sold via plane innovations. He
built them for himself without regard for profit. Example are the gear
wheel pant extensions, rock solid and well worth that investment. I have
the Aileron trim, I have not used it much but good to have if I need it,
when I have it. I have the trim tab, works fine for me, no regrets
having the electronic version. I upgraded the front gear axle and wheel,
no regrets, sprayed a ceramic (truck liner) in the cabin, supposed to
minimize noise and temperature control-and painted not needed with good
ANR hedsets- would skip that. Otherwise I am pretty much stock and after
a year of =9Cbreak-in=9D the plane has held up solid and
flew very nicely. I think Tim has the list of items to get for
upgrading. If one uses that list they will be a great shape. I am not
one for adding more and changing the plane unnecessarily. I think after
1 year of fine tuning and constant calls to poor Don, the plane is
complete and I have no regrets of wishing I had added more or I wasted
too much time upgrading something. I think if one gets what is required
and wants to do it inexpensively, it can be done, stock works but not as
well as if it was/is upgraded with better parts and options, just
don=99t spend too much time on forums and getting the latest
upgrade. To be blunt there are still some out there building that were
building before I ever got started- and that means 1 year researching
the RV-10 before I did that first rivet. I have a day job, I got an
average of 2-3 hours in each day and a complete day on the weekends for
4.5 years, minimal help. If it is something that can be done later and
there is doubt, move on. I hate to see projects sitting around for
years, especially those that have avionics, like computers they may be
obsolete by the time you get the plane flying. I have a skyview and it
was released right when I was building the panel. I needed to send some
items back but fortunately I got in right about 1 year after it was
released, it remains being updated and Dynon has been great in support,
but if even if I was not flying the plane THAT too would eventually get
replaced, Vertical Power doesn=99t make the VP-200, a real shame
since that has proven to be well worth the investment I made, in that
case having something old paid off..
It can be done but don=99t get lost doing everything out there.
Tim is a book of knowledge, he knows what he is saying, Linn is right
too. Get the plane flying, if in doubt about something, find a RV-10
somewhere, maybe a flyin and fly the plane to see if you need that
gizmo. If there is someone in SoCal, contact me, love to get you out and
answer any questions.
Pascal
From: Linn
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim
Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to
convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had
on my build time.
I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
that are!!!!
On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
Lynn,
Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
simpler.
But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
painful than it is.
But where you really lose it is this line:
"At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
flying."
You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
opinions will become much more valuable.
My personal feelings on trim:
Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
everyone should have speed control and I personally
believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
should be mandatory install.
Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
it's likely to be something that people will like.
Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
want to mess with a control surface too much that I
plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
is about as simple as it gets if you have an
electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
Tim
On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
Hi Carlos.
To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder
trims
I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed
by
hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a
moveable
tab cut out of the rudder.
I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges
is
looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels
with
autopilot and engine monitor.
Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim
on
the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the
plans
it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in
the
build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and
deal
with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
someday.
Linn
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/05/12
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | "rleffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
johngoodman wrote:
> 2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there every
day. The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding & filling.
> John
John,
I think the difference of opinion may be in scope definition. The topic was talking
about the interior of the cabin cover, not necessarily the doors and the
exterior. Which I admit does take a significantly greater amount of time.
There is also a difference if you have a green versus a pink top. I don't think
there are too many green tops still left in circulation, so that is good news.
I can tell you that I did finish the interior work on my cabin cover in under forty
hours of effort. Additionally, I finished almost the entire interior, since
it was my cabin cover that Geoff used as a mold for his headliners. It
was glass smooth in preparation for making his molds.
With that said, I did have the proper tools, work environment, and mentoring.
I did this at Geoff's shop and used his equipment. I suspect if I was doing
this at home, without his guidance, it would have added another ten to twenty
hours. For example, I found that sanding screens were more effective that standard
sandpaper. They are more expensive, but allow you to get more work accomplished
in a set amount of time. I also used a polyester filler instead of
micro and epoxy, since these were more cosmetic changes and not structural.
Remember the class that we attended at Dave Saylor's facility? We both learned
some short cuts on trimming the cabin cover. Those tips probably saved me a
few days of frustration with making the initial trim cuts.
Now we won't talk about the weeks I put into the doors and the sides of the cabin
cover that were sanded flat by Van's that I had to rebuild back to follow the
door contour. That was a royal pain in the rear end.
To summarize, those with experience are going to be more proficient. While those
of us newbies are going to take longer unless we get somebody to mentor us
and show us all their tricks of the trade. Your already flying, so my advice
isn't directed towards you. But if you're just starting building, try to hook
up with somebody that has gone before you and learn from their experience.
I'm five years into my build and about ready to fly and I'm still learning new
things daily.
bob
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - FWF
RV-10 #40684
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386921#386921
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
I'm at 2-3 months on the interior and still not finished.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 5, 2012, at 9:40 AM, "rleffler" wrote:
>
>
> johngoodman wrote:
>> 2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there every
day. The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding & filling.
>> John
>
>
> John,
>
> I think the difference of opinion may be in scope definition. The topic was
talking about the interior of the cabin cover, not necessarily the doors and the
exterior. Which I admit does take a significantly greater amount of time.
>
> There is also a difference if you have a green versus a pink top. I don't think
there are too many green tops still left in circulation, so that is good news.
>
> I can tell you that I did finish the interior work on my cabin cover in under
forty hours of effort. Additionally, I finished almost the entire interior,
since it was my cabin cover that Geoff used as a mold for his headliners. It
was glass smooth in preparation for making his molds.
>
> With that said, I did have the proper tools, work environment, and mentoring.
I did this at Geoff's shop and used his equipment. I suspect if I was doing
this at home, without his guidance, it would have added another ten to twenty
hours. For example, I found that sanding screens were more effective that standard
sandpaper. They are more expensive, but allow you to get more work accomplished
in a set amount of time. I also used a polyester filler instead
of micro and epoxy, since these were more cosmetic changes and not structural.
Remember the class that we attended at Dave Saylor's facility? We both learned
some short cuts on trimming the cabin cover. Those tips probably saved me
a few days of frustration with making the initial trim cuts.
>
> Now we won't talk about the weeks I put into the doors and the sides of the cabin
cover that were sanded flat by Van's that I had to rebuild back to follow
the door contour. That was a royal pain in the rear end.
>
> To summarize, those with experience are going to be more proficient. While those
of us newbies are going to take longer unless we get somebody to mentor us
and show us all their tricks of the trade. Your already flying, so my advice
isn't directed towards you. But if you're just starting building, try to hook
up with somebody that has gone before you and learn from their experience.
I'm five years into my build and about ready to fly and I'm still learning
new things daily.
>
> bob
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386921#386921
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Let me clarify my statement again. I am talking about just prepping the
inside of the cabin top
For final paint. Not installing overhead consoles attaching doors, putting
light wiring in, GPS
Antennas ETC. Just finishing the inside of the cabin top. To before final
paint or primer stage.
This is also If you use a spray able body filler. Also the green tops are
way worse than the pink tops.
Using a DA sander with a screen type paper As Bob mentioned makes a big
difference.
Geoff Combs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Perry
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Opinion please
I'm at 2-3 months on the interior and still not finished.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 5, 2012, at 9:40 AM, "rleffler" wrote:
>
>
> johngoodman wrote:
>> 2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there
every day. The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding &
filling.
>> John
>
>
> John,
>
> I think the difference of opinion may be in scope definition. The topic
was talking about the interior of the cabin cover, not necessarily the doors
and the exterior. Which I admit does take a significantly greater amount of
time.
>
> There is also a difference if you have a green versus a pink top. I don't
think there are too many green tops still left in circulation, so that is
good news.
>
> I can tell you that I did finish the interior work on my cabin cover in
under forty hours of effort. Additionally, I finished almost the entire
interior, since it was my cabin cover that Geoff used as a mold for his
headliners. It was glass smooth in preparation for making his molds.
>
> With that said, I did have the proper tools, work environment, and
mentoring. I did this at Geoff's shop and used his equipment. I suspect
if I was doing this at home, without his guidance, it would have added
another ten to twenty hours. For example, I found that sanding screens were
more effective that standard sandpaper. They are more expensive, but allow
you to get more work accomplished in a set amount of time. I also used a
polyester filler instead of micro and epoxy, since these were more cosmetic
changes and not structural. Remember the class that we attended at Dave
Saylor's facility? We both learned some short cuts on trimming the cabin
cover. Those tips probably saved me a few days of frustration with making
the initial trim cuts.
>
> Now we won't talk about the weeks I put into the doors and the sides of
the cabin cover that were sanded flat by Van's that I had to rebuild back to
follow the door contour. That was a royal pain in the rear end.
>
> To summarize, those with experience are going to be more proficient.
While those of us newbies are going to take longer unless we get somebody to
mentor us and show us all their tricks of the trade. Your already flying,
so my advice isn't directed towards you. But if you're just starting
building, try to hook up with somebody that has gone before you and learn
from their experience. I'm five years into my build and about ready to fly
and I'm still learning new things daily.
>
> bob
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386921#386921
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
OK, I'm green with envy!!!
I used a 4" angle grinder where they glopped (scientific term) the FG in
places inside my green top and to shape the door openings. I plan on
using a light color Zolatone to finish the inside and will concentrate
on a good paint base on the outside..
Linn .... wiring ... not flying
On 11/5/2012 2:48 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
>
> Let me clarify my statement again. I am talking about just prepping the
> inside of the cabin top
> For final paint. Not installing overhead consoles attaching doors, putting
> light wiring in, GPS
> Antennas ETC. Just finishing the inside of the cabin top. To before final
> paint or primer stage.
>
> This is also If you use a spray able body filler. Also the green tops are
> way worse than the pink tops.
> Using a DA sander with a screen type paper As Bob mentioned makes a big
> difference.
>
>
> Geoff Combs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
| From: | Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> |
Robin - got any pictures of how the lever arm is set up inside so it all
fits with nothing exposed?
Bob
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
> Regarding Rudder Trim I have shared my link in the past to the trim on
> my -10::****
>
> http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/RudderTrim.aspx****
>
> It was our first attempt and was done on an already built rudder. No
> problems, works great and I am very happy to have electric rudder trim. N
o
> need for the position sensor because you can use your ball as the positio
n
> indicator. ****
>
> On my 8A Rudder Trim which was also installed on an already built rudder
> (we never do anything the easy way!) we were able to get the entire leave
r
> arm inside the rudder so no additional items sticking out into the wind.
> This one turned out ultra clean and looks great (IMHO). It also functions
> well in flight. Servicing the trim mechanism is as simple as removing the
4
> #8 screws and pulling out the trim tab and attached servo tray (much like
> pictured on the -10 but w/o the position sensor).****
>
> ** **
>
> Robin****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 8:08 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ** **
>
> I respect Tim so I=99ll respond here from my perspective. Been flyi
ng for a
> year- 109 flight hours; just did my conditional inspection. After 1 year
of
> flying I=99ll state the following. The Stock is fine but it sure la
cks
> numerous required upgrades however. I was blessed to have met Don McDonal
d
> during my build, a real guru with parts, he made numerous parts, that (ma
y)
> still be sold via plane innovations. He built them for himself without
> regard for profit. Example are the gear wheel pant extensions, rock solid
> and well worth that investment. I have the Aileron trim, I have not used
it
> much but good to have if I need it, when I have it. I have the trim tab,
> works fine for me, no regrets having the electronic version. I upgraded t
he
> front gear axle and wheel, no regrets, sprayed a ceramic (truck liner) in
> the cabin, supposed to minimize noise and temperature control-and painted
> not needed with good ANR hedsets- would skip that. Otherwise I am pretty
> much stock and after a year of =9Cbreak-in=9D the plane has h
eld up solid and
> flew very nicely. I think Tim has the list of items to get for upgrading.
> If one uses that list they will be a great shape. I am not one for adding
> more and changing the plane unnecessarily. I think after 1 year of fine
> tuning and constant calls to poor Don, the plane is complete and I have n
o
> regrets of wishing I had added more or I wasted too much time upgrading
> something. I think if one gets what is required and wants to do it
> inexpensively, it can be done, stock works but not as well as if it was/i
s
> upgraded with better parts and options, just don=99t spend too much
time on
> forums and getting the latest upgrade. To be blunt there are still some o
ut
> there building that were building before I ever got started- and that mea
ns
> 1 year researching the RV-10 before I did that first rivet. I have a day
> job, I got an average of 2-3 hours in each day and a complete day on the
> weekends for 4.5 years, minimal help. If it is something that can be done
> later and there is doubt, move on. I hate to see projects sitting around
> for years, especially those that have avionics, like computers they may b
e
> obsolete by the time you get the plane flying. I have a skyview and it wa
s
> released right when I was building the panel. I needed to send some items
> back but fortunately I got in right about 1 year after it was released, i
t
> remains being updated and Dynon has been great in support, but if even if
I
> was not flying the plane THAT too would eventually get replaced, Vertical
> Power doesn=99t make the VP-200, a real shame since that has proven
to be
> well worth the investment I made, in that case having something old paid
> off.. ****
>
> It can be done but don=99t get lost doing everything out there. Tim
is a
> book of knowledge, he knows what he is saying, Linn is right too. Get the
> plane flying, if in doubt about something, find a RV-10 somewhere, maybe
a
> flyin and fly the plane to see if you need that gizmo. If there is someon
e
> in SoCal, contact me, love to get you out and answer any questions.****
>
> Pascal ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Linn ****
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 7:22 AM****
>
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com ****
>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ****
>
> Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
> I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
> My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
> from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
> significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
> build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to conv
ey
> what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had on *my*
build time.
>
> I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
> offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
>
> I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one fr
om
> Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I consider
> the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like bungee
> trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect. That's what
> drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was just aileron
> trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might as well add
> rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable camera mount ...
..
> and the build time gets longer and longer.
>
> Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those that
> are!!!!
>
>
> On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:****
>
10.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
> simpler.
>
> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
> painful than it is.
>
> But where you really lose it is this line:
>
> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
> flying."
>
> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
> opinions will become much more valuable.
>
>
> My personal feelings on trim:
>
> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>
> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
> everyone should have speed control and I personally
> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
> should be mandatory install.
>
> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
> it's likely to be something that people will like.
> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
>
> ****
>
> Hi Carlos.
> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
> tab cut out of the rudder.
>
> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
> autopilot and engine monitor.
>
> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
> someday.
> Linn ****
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 11/05/12
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-List>*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
============*
>
>
============*
>
>
============*
>
>
============*
>
> * *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
I wish I had known about the Duratec product (a polyester grey surfacing
primer). The stuff works like I wished the epoxy based Dupont product I
used would work. I didn't use it on anything until after I finished.
The workability of the Duratec product makes all this work MUCH easier
and productive.
Bill
On 11/3/2012 10:23 PM, g.combs wrote:
>
> I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside
of the airplane. Sand and fill
> As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot of elbow grease but when done it
will look much better
> Than doing minimal work. There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part
sprayable body filler. Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray
a good heavy coat on the entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back
to the raw fiber glass and do it one more time. Then it should be very close
to final paint. Do all this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
> If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but
do everything
> Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what ever you want
before installing.
> Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
>
> FWIW
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>>
>> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of
filling and sanding to get everything smooth.
>>
>> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>>
>> Bob
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>
>>> Listers,
>>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
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Y3MuY29tLyIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaT09PT09PT09PT09
PQ0KDQoNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rudder trim |
| From: | "Ron B." <ronbelliveau(at)eastlink.ca> |
Hey Tim
I was planning to install a rudder trim on the 14 just like I did on the 10, til
I read your previous post. I hadn't thought of the aerobatic part. I will cancel
that thought , Thanks Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386978#386978
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Hey Bill/Geoff,
I'm always open to new stuff ... never heard of Duratec. I googled it, is
it DURA-707G? They have all kinds of products. I've used the Dupont/Nason
2K epoxy primer for many years, so I'm comfortable with the way it fills,
sands AND bonds with the finish coat. I don't want to be the first one to
put a new product under automotive paint only to find out later that it
doesn't adhere. I essentially agree with the primer war conclusions: use
the primer that the finish coat recommends.
Later, - Lew "looking for more specifics" Gallagher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rudder trim |
I'm not considering it a 100% done deal yet...I may add it, but,
I don't think it's 100% needed, and it does take one thing out
of the mix that could go wrong on an aerobatic plane. So, I'm
not sure.
Tim
On 11/5/2012 6:40 PM, Ron B. wrote:
>
> Hey Tim
> I was planning to install a rudder trim on the 14 just like I did on the 10,
til I read your previous post. I hadn't thought of the aerobatic part. I will
cancel that thought , Thanks Ron
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386978#386978
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Nice Robin. I wish I'd have seen that before I build my version. Well
done.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
> Why since you asked so nicely here you go****
>
> Robin****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bob Condrey
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 2:07 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ** **
>
> Robin - got any pictures of how the lever arm is set up inside so it all
> fits with nothing exposed?****
>
> ****
>
> Bob****
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Robin Marks wrote
:
> ****
>
> Regarding Rudder Trim I have shared my link in the past to the trim on my
> -10::****
>
> http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/RudderTrim.aspx****
>
> It was our first attempt and was done on an already built rudder. No
> problems, works great and I am very happy to have electric rudder trim. N
o
> need for the position sensor because you can use your ball as the positio
n
> indicator. ****
>
> On my 8A Rudder Trim which was also installed on an already built rudder
> (we never do anything the easy way!) we were able to get the entire leave
r
> arm inside the rudder so no additional items sticking out into the wind.
> This one turned out ultra clean and looks great (IMHO). It also functions
> well in flight. Servicing the trim mechanism is as simple as removing the
4
> #8 screws and pulling out the trim tab and attached servo tray (much like
> pictured on the -10 but w/o the position sensor).****
>
> ****
>
> Robin****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 8:08 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ****
>
> I respect Tim so I=99ll respond here from my perspective. Been flyi
ng for a
> year- 109 flight hours; just did my conditional inspection. After 1 year
of
> flying I=99ll state the following. The Stock is fine but it sure la
cks
> numerous required upgrades however. I was blessed to have met Don McDonal
d
> during my build, a real guru with parts, he made numerous parts, that (ma
y)
> still be sold via plane innovations. He built them for himself without
> regard for profit. Example are the gear wheel pant extensions, rock solid
> and well worth that investment. I have the Aileron trim, I have not used
it
> much but good to have if I need it, when I have it. I have the trim tab,
> works fine for me, no regrets having the electronic version. I upgraded t
he
> front gear axle and wheel, no regrets, sprayed a ceramic (truck liner) in
> the cabin, supposed to minimize noise and temperature control-and painted
> not needed with good ANR hedsets- would skip that. Otherwise I am pretty
> much stock and after a year of =9Cbreak-in=9D the plane has h
eld up solid and
> flew very nicely. I think Tim has the list of items to get for upgrading.
> If one uses that list they will be a great shape. I am not one for adding
> more and changing the plane unnecessarily. I think after 1 year of fine
> tuning and constant calls to poor Don, the plane is complete and I have n
o
> regrets of wishing I had added more or I wasted too much time upgrading
> something. I think if one gets what is required and wants to do it
> inexpensively, it can be done, stock works but not as well as if it was/i
s
> upgraded with better parts and options, just don=99t spend too much
time on
> forums and getting the latest upgrade. To be blunt there are still some o
ut
> there building that were building before I ever got started- and that mea
ns
> 1 year researching the RV-10 before I did that first rivet. I have a day
> job, I got an average of 2-3 hours in each day and a complete day on the
> weekends for 4.5 years, minimal help. If it is something that can be done
> later and there is doubt, move on. I hate to see projects sitting around
> for years, especially those that have avionics, like computers they may b
e
> obsolete by the time you get the plane flying. I have a skyview and it wa
s
> released right when I was building the panel. I needed to send some items
> back but fortunately I got in right about 1 year after it was released, i
t
> remains being updated and Dynon has been great in support, but if even if
I
> was not flying the plane THAT too would eventually get replaced, Vertical
> Power doesn=99t make the VP-200, a real shame since that has proven
to be
> well worth the investment I made, in that case having something old paid
> off.. ****
>
> It can be done but don=99t get lost doing everything out there. Tim
is a
> book of knowledge, he knows what he is saying, Linn is right too. Get the
> plane flying, if in doubt about something, find a RV-10 somewhere, maybe
a
> flyin and fly the plane to see if you need that gizmo. If there is someon
e
> in SoCal, contact me, love to get you out and answer any questions.****
>
> Pascal ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Linn ****
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 7:22 AM****
>
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com ****
>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ****
>
> Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
> I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
> My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
> from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
> significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
> build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to conv
ey
> what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had on *my*
build time.
>
> I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
> offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
>
> I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one fr
om
> Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I consider
> the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like bungee
> trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect. That's what
> drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was just aileron
> trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might as well add
> rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable camera mount ...
..
> and the build time gets longer and longer.
>
> Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those that
> are!!!!
>
>
> On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:****
>
10.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
> simpler.
>
> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
> painful than it is.
>
> But where you really lose it is this line:
>
> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
> flying."
>
> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
> opinions will become much more valuable.
>
>
> My personal feelings on trim:
>
> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>
> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
> everyone should have speed control and I personally
> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
> should be mandatory install.
>
> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
> it's likely to be something that people will like.
> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote: ****
>
> Hi Carlos.
> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
> tab cut out of the rudder.
>
> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
> autopilot and engine monitor.
>
> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
> someday.
> Linn ****
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 11/05/12 ****
>
> ****
>
> * *****
>
> * *****
>
> *href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com*****
>
> *href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com*****
>
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>
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chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-List>*****
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*****
>
> * *****
>
> *=EF=BD*****
>
> =EF=BD (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)< November is the Ann
ual List
> Fund Raiser. Click on****
>
> by:****
>
> * AeroElectric www.buildersbooks.com****
>
> .homebuilthelp.com/" target="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com<<http://www.
homebuilthelp.com%3c>
> * List Contribution Web Site:*
>
> *ef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://ww
w.m>*
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> >****
>
> ==============****
>
>
> ore:****
>
> ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List****
>
> *==============*****
>
Web Forums!*****
>
> ef="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matro
ni
> ============****
>
> * *****
>
> ** **
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
Lew it is not a primer but a sprayable filler. You still need to put a primer coat
on.
Never had a problem with it and have used it for years.
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 5, 2012, at 7:49 PM, wrote:
>
> Hey Bill/Geoff,
>
> I'm always open to new stuff ... never heard of Duratec. I googled it, is it
DURA-707G? They have all kinds of products. I've used the Dupont/Nason 2K epoxy
primer for many years, so I'm comfortable with the way it fills, sands AND
bonds with the finish coat. I don't want to be the first one to put a new product
under automotive paint only to find out later that it doesn't adhere.
I essentially agree with the primer war conclusions: use the primer that the
finish coat recommends.
>
> Later, - Lew "looking for more specifics" Gallagher
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
DURA-707G?
-----Original Message-----
From: g.combs
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion please
Lew it is not a primer but a sprayable filler. You still need to put a
primer coat on.
Never had a problem with it and have used it for years.
Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
Dura tech 707-002
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 5, 2012, at 10:27 PM, wrote:
>
> DURA-707G?
>
> -----Original Message----- From: g.combs
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 10:09 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion please
>
>
> Lew it is not a primer but a sprayable filler. You still need to put a primer
coat on.
> Never had a problem with it and have used it for years.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
> Remember the class that we attended at Dave Saylor's facility? We both learned
some short cuts on trimming the cabin cover. Those tips probably saved me a
few days of frustration with making the initial trim cuts.
>
Bob, Yes I do. Probably the best learning experience I ever had as far as the RV
building process. But, telling somebody that it only takes 2 to three days to
do the doors/canopy - or any part of it - is a joke.
Going back, my experience with you guys and Dave Saylor, was probably the thing
that made it work for me. The metal on the RV-10 is pretty easy and straight
forward, the fiberglass on the other hand, is a big issue. Without that class,
I would have been lost.
I didn't have any assistance with the 'glass. I only had the experience of Dave's
class and the school of hard knocks. All I'm saying is that this "easy to do"
advice comes a little too easy.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386996#386996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | A Message From AeroElectric's Bob Nuckolls... |
Dear Listers,
The well known Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric posted a great message Monday on
the AeroElectric-List regarding the Matronics Lists and the importance of supporting
the operation during the Fund Raiser. Please take a minute to read Bob's
commentary below, reposted to the other Matronics Lists with his permission...
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 08:58:41 -0600
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Please Make A Contribution Today!
At 02:14 AM 11/5/2012, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message
> acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
> support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that
> took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
>
I will add my voice to this suggestion. It's
easy to enjoy the benefits of what's available to us
off-the-shelves at the corner mega-marts. It's
seldom that we give pause to learn and understand the
processes and tools that made it possible to reach out
and select from dozens of options.
This, and all civil societies, runs on talent, energy
and mobility. Mobility exploited by thousands of hands,
machines and transportation that figure into the
'infrastructure' that puts the boxes of Wheaties and
Pop Tarts on the shelves.
See "I pencil" http://tinyurl.com/36xkhq
Any break in that chain of time, talent and resources
at least interrupts if not totally halts flow of
that benefit. Matt's room full of byte-thrashers is
like the natural gas pumping station a few miles from
my house. If those pumps stop, who ever is expecting
the furnace to come on at the other end of the pipe
is at risk for reduced service and/or higher costs
for that service.
Matt's yearly endeavor to keep his pumps running is
a trivial burden on the members of the Lists
but of incalculable value to those who participate
on them. No donation is too small.
We go to a fly-in a willingly chuck a few bucks into
the coffee can at the drinks and donuts table, let's
chuck a few bucks into Matt's coffee can too. 50,000
pounds of value doesn't get to the shelves on time
if one 18-wheeler runs out of gas. The T-bytes of
data flow we all enjoy don't get from your keyboard
to the screens of others unless Matt pays the light
bill and strokes the machines to keep them happy.
No, $5 won't get you a free copy of the 'Connection
or a fuel sampler but it will go toward the assurance
that logging onto your favorite List will open
doors that you would be sorely missed should you find
that hitting the return key doesn't produce the
expected response.
$5 from every List customer on Matt's system will
go a very long way to keeping the byte-pumps running.
$More$ will go a long way to upgrading the size
and quality of the machines as the old ones get
long in the tooth. No matter what size of donation
you choose . . . please do it now . . .
Bob . . .
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Geoff, as I mentioned, I love the stuff, but I discovered too late for
most of my project.
Did you use it on the exterior of the cowling or cabin top? I assume
you did but just wanted to regret some of my earlier choices a bit more.
Bill Watson
On 11/5/2012 10:09 PM, g.combs wrote:
>
> Lew it is not a primer but a sprayable filler. You still need to put a primer
coat on.
> Never had a problem with it and have used it for years.
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | First ice of the season and why a heated pitot is nice |
Just thought I'd share...
Monday a week ago, when the storm hit NY/NJ/CT, I had the pleasure of
flying from Key West home to NC.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/60509998/FlightAware%20%E2%9C%88%20N215TG%20%E2%9C%88%2029-Oct-2012%20%E2%9C%88%20KEYW%20-%20KSOP.htm
The weather was interesting in that I don't think I've ever flown for 5
hours in a single low pressure system. The barometric pressure at
takeoff was 29.xx and steadily sunk by 2 or 3 tenths every ATC handoff
until landing. And I was still well short of the stormy center. The
winds were strong from 3,000' up to 10 at 40+ knots but they were the
same speed the whole way up and they didn't change by more than 5 knots
for the whole trip. That's a big fat low.
In the keys we had fair weather cu but from FL thru GA there wasn't a
cloud in the sky. Somewhere over SC cu formed below, solidified, and
slowly rose to meet us at 10k. Temps at 10k were above freezing all day
but as we started to hit the layers the temps were coming down and I
noticed a few glazed drops on the wing's top surface. I was checking
the leading edge for any build up but didn't see any.
One of the first accessories I purchased for the '10 was the Gretz
heated pitot. It seemed to be a well designed product now available to
me because I'm 'experimental'. It had been installed for 4 years when I
finally put power to it. It seemed to work but there's no easy way to
confirm it's exact operation. However, a subsequent inspection showed
that the thermoplastic exterior had melted and the fuse had blown. The
pitot function was still there but heating was clearly not available. I
flew like this for quite awhile weighing my options. Since purchasing
the unit, the Gretz product had been sold to Angus Aviation in Australia.
http://www.angusaviation.com/HeatedPitot/tabid/608/language/en-US/Default.aspx
hmmm.
After several conversations with Andrew Leopold at Angus, he convinced
me the only way to fix this was to send him the unit. Taking the pitot
off and sending to Oz basically put the plane offline unless a
substitute pitot was fabricated. So I went back to the Vans 1.0 pitot
design with a little hacking and sent the unit off.
It came back a couple of weeks ago. I learned 1) sending small stuff
like a heated pitot unit to Oz is surprisingly fast, cheap and easy via
1st class mail, 2) Andrew is a class act, he fixed it and made me whole,
3) I'm real glad I had a heated pitot last week...
So, I'm flying along looking for leading edge ice and watching the
indicator lights on the pitot flash on and off. It slowly dawns on me
that the plane is slowing down. I've lost about 15 knots indicated! A
closer inspection of the leading edge shows that I've got a pretty good
layer of rime on the leading edge. I ask for and get lower. I'm able
to Pirep the icing and the freezing level at 6k ("what's that noise?"
"that's ice baby, I think we're shedding ice off the prop").
So we land at KSOP, aka the land of golf courses. Twenty five knot
crosswind, blustery, rain, dark, etc. I ask for gas, wearing my
sunglasses, sandals and T-shirt, wondering why everyone is so
overdressed. Wait, I'm the one that is underdressed! One of the
surprising joys of IFR flight.
I don't know what an iced up pitot would do to my AP guided machine but
it would not be good I assume (does anyone know?). I know I REALLY like
the Gretz unit now that it works properly. It's just another completely
automated device that I only need to monitor. It periodically heats up
and shuts off as the temp drops. I notice that the electrical load,
like any heated pitot, is substantial when it's heating but it only
heats to the extent it needs to which is a good thing if your electrical
system is at or near full capacity. No more burns during preflight. No
more having to remember to turn it on. And no more eye pokes from the
high wing installation on my old Maule... I'm a low wing guy now.
So, with all this talk about options, I would highly recommend a heated
pitot and the Gretz unit in particular. Certainly for any IFR work but
also for VFR unless you only go traveling short distances on sunny
days. The '10 is an amazingly nice traveling machine that likes to go
high and long. Yes, I flew slightly over 5 hours with only 60 gallons
on board and I still had almost an hour of low power endurance left -
far less than I would ever plan for or depend on but enough when high
over VFR airports over familiar territory dotted with available fueling
spots. At 10k I'm burning less that 10GPH with WOT the whole way. LOP
of course.
What a storm. After fueling up I flew VFR under the clouds home to
8NC8. I was tired, it was dark, and Sandy was intensifying every mile
we flew north. ATC was more than helpful as I garbled almost
everything said and screwed up a vector to get around RDU. I had to do
a crosswind, downhill night landing on our little grass carrier deck.
It's much easier to do in the '10 than my old lightly loaded tailwheel
Maule. A very satisfying end to a great trip. The '10 is sweet plane!
So, put a heated pitot on it if you plan to fly it seriously.
Does anyone have some thoughts on what could be done to make leading
edge icing more easily visible from the cockpit? I have a white wing
and was thinking that a patch of paint or something might make ice
easier to detect but I don't know. Thanks for any suggestions.
Bill "glad the damn election is almost over so we can get on with
things" Watson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First ice of the season and why a heated pitot is nice |
I've seen a little rime on my grey metallic painted wings. It was pretty
evident, and so light I didn't notice any performance decrease. We could
see it on the windshield, too. We were in and out of the tops of clouds so
we had plenty of light. I think you're right though, white wouldn't show
the ice nearly as well.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Just thought I'd share...
>
> Monday a week ago, when the storm hit NY/NJ/CT, I had the pleasure of
> flying from Key West home to NC.
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/**60509998/FlightAware%20%E2%9C%**
> 88%20N215TG%20%E2%9C%88%2029-**Oct-2012%20%E2%9C%88%20KEYW%**
> 20-%20KSOP.htm
>
> The weather was interesting in that I don't think I've ever flown for 5
> hours in a single low pressure system. The barometric pressure at takeoff
> was 29.xx and steadily sunk by 2 or 3 tenths every ATC handoff until
> landing. And I was still well short of the stormy center. The winds were
> strong from 3,000' up to 10 at 40+ knots but they were the same speed the
> whole way up and they didn't change by more than 5 knots for the whole
> trip. That's a big fat low.
>
> In the keys we had fair weather cu but from FL thru GA there wasn't a
> cloud in the sky. Somewhere over SC cu formed below, solidified, and
> slowly rose to meet us at 10k. Temps at 10k were above freezing all day
> but as we started to hit the layers the temps were coming down and I
> noticed a few glazed drops on the wing's top surface. I was checking the
> leading edge for any build up but didn't see any.
>
> One of the first accessories I purchased for the '10 was the Gretz heated
> pitot. It seemed to be a well designed product now available to me because
> I'm 'experimental'. It had been installed for 4 years when I finally put
> power to it. It seemed to work but there's no easy way to confirm it's
> exact operation. However, a subsequent inspection showed that the
> thermoplastic exterior had melted and the fuse had blown. The pitot
> function was still there but heating was clearly not available. I flew
> like this for quite awhile weighing my options. Since purchasing the unit,
> the Gretz product had been sold to Angus Aviation in Australia.
> http://www.angusaviation.com/**HeatedPitot/tabid/608/**
> language/en-US/Default.aspx<http://www.angusaviation.com/HeatedPitot/tabid/608/language/en-US/Default.aspx>
> hmmm.
>
> After several conversations with Andrew Leopold at Angus, he convinced me
> the only way to fix this was to send him the unit. Taking the pitot off and
> sending to Oz basically put the plane offline unless a substitute pitot was
> fabricated. So I went back to the Vans 1.0 pitot design with a little
> hacking and sent the unit off.
>
> It came back a couple of weeks ago. I learned 1) sending small stuff like
> a heated pitot unit to Oz is surprisingly fast, cheap and easy via 1st
> class mail, 2) Andrew is a class act, he fixed it and made me whole, 3) I'm
> real glad I had a heated pitot last week...
>
> So, I'm flying along looking for leading edge ice and watching the
> indicator lights on the pitot flash on and off. It slowly dawns on me that
> the plane is slowing down. I've lost about 15 knots indicated! A closer
> inspection of the leading edge shows that I've got a pretty good layer of
> rime on the leading edge. I ask for and get lower. I'm able to Pirep the
> icing and the freezing level at 6k ("what's that noise?" "that's ice baby,
> I think we're shedding ice off the prop").
>
> So we land at KSOP, aka the land of golf courses. Twenty five knot
> crosswind, blustery, rain, dark, etc. I ask for gas, wearing my
> sunglasses, sandals and T-shirt, wondering why everyone is so overdressed.
> Wait, I'm the one that is underdressed! One of the surprising joys of
> IFR flight.
>
> I don't know what an iced up pitot would do to my AP guided machine but it
> would not be good I assume (does anyone know?). I know I REALLY like the
> Gretz unit now that it works properly. It's just another completely
> automated device that I only need to monitor. It periodically heats up and
> shuts off as the temp drops. I notice that the electrical load, like any
> heated pitot, is substantial when it's heating but it only heats to the
> extent it needs to which is a good thing if your electrical system is at or
> near full capacity. No more burns during preflight. No more having to
> remember to turn it on. And no more eye pokes from the high wing
> installation on my old Maule... I'm a low wing guy now.
>
> So, with all this talk about options, I would highly recommend a heated
> pitot and the Gretz unit in particular. Certainly for any IFR work but
> also for VFR unless you only go traveling short distances on sunny days.
> The '10 is an amazingly nice traveling machine that likes to go high and
> long. Yes, I flew slightly over 5 hours with only 60 gallons on board and
> I still had almost an hour of low power endurance left - far less than I
> would ever plan for or depend on but enough when high over VFR airports
> over familiar territory dotted with available fueling spots. At 10k I'm
> burning less that 10GPH with WOT the whole way. LOP of course.
>
> What a storm. After fueling up I flew VFR under the clouds home to 8NC8.
> I was tired, it was dark, and Sandy was intensifying every mile we flew
> north. ATC was more than helpful as I garbled almost everything said and
> screwed up a vector to get around RDU. I had to do a crosswind, downhill
> night landing on our little grass carrier deck. It's much easier to do in
> the '10 than my old lightly loaded tailwheel Maule. A very satisfying end
> to a great trip. The '10 is sweet plane!
>
> So, put a heated pitot on it if you plan to fly it seriously.
>
> Does anyone have some thoughts on what could be done to make leading edge
> icing more easily visible from the cockpit? I have a white wing and was
> thinking that a patch of paint or something might make ice easier to detect
> but I don't know. Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Bill "glad the damn election is almost over so we can get on with things"
> Watson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First ice of the season and why a heated pitot is nice |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Leading edge ice shows up great on my Lamborghini purple wing.
Jim Berry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387135#387135
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | roll servo stop bracket |
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Hi all
I installed the roll servo today and found the 2 little 6-32 x 1/4" screws
that fasten the stop bracket woefully short. I got almost 1 1/2 turns on
them. Searching the archives revealed a couple of posts but no definitive
conclusion. Did anyone substitute the screws for something a little bit
longer? I know using a screw that's too long screw can cause interference
internally. I'm tempted to remove the lock washer, use a little bit of
lock tite or use both.
Anyone have a better solution?
Thx
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
FWF and Finish kit arrive tomorrow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: roll servo stop bracket |
I did just that: Removed the washer and used Loctite.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Lark" <larkrv10(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:27:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: roll servo stop bracket
Hi all
I installed the roll servo today and found the 2 little 6-32 x 1/4" screws that
fasten the stop bracket woefully short. I got almost 1 1/2 turns on them. Searching
the archives revealed a couple of posts but no definitive conclusion. Did
anyone substitute the screws for something a little bit longer? I know using
a screw that's too long screw can cause interference internally. I'm tempted
to remove the lock washer, use a little bit of lock tite or use both.
Anyone have a better solution?
Thx
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
FWF and Finish kit arrive tomorrow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button... |
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
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[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: roll servo stop bracket |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Rick,
I emailed you some photos of the mod I came up with for both the pitch and roll
servo brackets.
Bill
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387291#387291
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rudder trim |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
Coming up on one year and 95 hours.
I have and recommend electric roll trim. Fuel imbalance and passenger size do make
a difference.
I have the std pitch trim with with rocker and pitch trim enable button to prevent
runaways. I have no problem with controlling pitch trim from landing to cruise
speeds. One learns that a quick tap at 155 kts is all it takes. I am the
"speed controller". I adjust it before takeoff, after 115 kt climb established,
at level off, at descent and again on landing. During the climb to cruise to
descent phases my TT AP tells me when to adjust trim. Yes I know I could add
another box or two but I like it simple, inexpensive, light and easy to troubleshoot.
My rudder trim consist of a technological break through and is patented. It is
a small stick of balsa velcroed to the tunnel within easy reach once at cruise.
I do not use my "rudder trim" on the 5-10 minute climb to altitude. My wife
is most always with me and can hold right rudder if I need a break. On descent
very little foot pressure needed either way. If a hard turn at cruise is needed
then balsa is very easily broken. I am going to install an improved version
consisting of phenolic friction blocks on both sides of tunnel with a 1 1/4"
knob during condition insp. This will also be my gust lock instead of using the
towbar with tabs, which works perfectly fine too by the way.
Yes simple works if you so desire and it gives me something to do.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387299#387299
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rudder trim |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I have neither rudder nor aileron trim. I haven't noticed any issues hand flying,
although in truth I use the autopilot for anything over an hour x/c.
I have a wedge on the rudder, and that is very close for most cruse flight. There
is enough friction in the system to put in small corrections and have the friction
hold it. I also have but do not usually use a large paper clip to slip
over the tubing where the rudder cable exits into the tunnel, to increase the
friction a bit, if needed to hold. (This is very easily overpowered).
I have no pitch button on the right stick, to prevent accidental activation. Flying
from the right seat I use the Ray Allan rocker, mounted on the center of
the panel.
The stick (left) switch runs the trim at full speed. For cruise I trim thru the
Trio autopilot (this works regardless of whether or not the autopilot is engaged)
using the autopilot knob. Trim speed is software programable, speed sensitive.
I have it set up to run very slowly at cruise.
Autopilot and trim CB's are right in front of the pilot, pullable in case of runaway.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387320#387320
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
Quick query of y'all. For cutting fiberglass, I know many
people have recommended those sonic vibrating tools, like
Fein, SoniCrafter, and others. Harbor freight has a
single and variable speed model, and there is a Rockwell
on sale by me now too.
Is there any outstanding reason to buy one over the other?
Has anyone had experience with the Harbor Freight cheap ones?
How about which blade cuts fiberglass best?
I'm going to buy one today, for fiberglass cutting, and
wanted to take some of your recommendations with me.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
Tim
I have had the Fein for about 12 years now and it gets used and abused every
week for something here at work. That being
Said it is expensive compared to the others. The quality of the Fein is
outstanding. I think the key here is that
Some of these tools do not turn the RPM or movement as the Fein. If it is
20,000 like the Fein then for
Home use I would get the soniCrafter. The flat 3/4 round thin blades work
the best for fiberglass cutting. I would
Recommend a variable speed as well.
FWIW
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling and Design
8090 howe industrial pkwy
canal winchester, ohio 43110
614.834.5227p
614.834.5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:49 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools
Quick query of y'all. For cutting fiberglass, I know many people have
recommended those sonic vibrating tools, like Fein, SoniCrafter, and others.
Harbor freight has a single and variable speed model, and there is a
Rockwell on sale by me now too.
Is there any outstanding reason to buy one over the other?
Has anyone had experience with the Harbor Freight cheap ones?
How about which blade cuts fiberglass best?
I'm going to buy one today, for fiberglass cutting, and wanted to take some
of your recommendations with me.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
| From: | Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> |
Tim,
Other factor is blades - there isn't a single "standard". just make sure
you can get the blades you want. There are at least 2-3 different
configurations of how they actually attach to the tool and aren't
interchangable.
FWIW, I've got a Bosch that I found on sale and like it a lot. They work
very well for trimming most stuff but if you're trimming thick material
like the cabin top (1/4" or thicker in places) you'll go through blades
pretty quickly.
Bob
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Geoff Combs
wrote:
> g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>
>
> Tim
> I have had the Fein for about 12 years now and it gets used and abused
> every
> week for something here at work. That being
> Said it is expensive compared to the others. The quality of the Fein is
> outstanding. I think the key here is that
> Some of these tools do not turn the RPM or movement as the Fein. If it is
> 20,000 like the Fein then for
> Home use I would get the soniCrafter. The flat 3/4 round thin blades work
> the best for fiberglass cutting. I would
> Recommend a variable speed as well.
>
> FWIW
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Geoff Combs
> Aerosport Modeling and Design
> 8090 howe industrial pkwy
> canal winchester, ohio 43110
> 614.834.5227p
> 614.834.5230f
> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:49 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools
>
>
> Quick query of y'all. For cutting fiberglass, I know many people have
> recommended those sonic vibrating tools, like Fein, SoniCrafter, and
> others.
> Harbor freight has a single and variable speed model, and there is a
> Rockwell on sale by me now too.
>
> Is there any outstanding reason to buy one over the other?
>
> Has anyone had experience with the Harbor Freight cheap ones?
>
> How about which blade cuts fiberglass best?
>
> I'm going to buy one today, for fiberglass cutting, and wanted to take some
> of your recommendations with me.
>
> Tim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
I usually can recommend HF for a lot of stuff but have never had good luck with
there electric tools. On the other hand, I purchased one of their multi tool
blades and had very good luck with it. It was a bi-metal blade. Works great on
fiberglass. In fact, I used it yesterday in my Fein and cut out the Skyview holes
in my IP and it was still going strong after a whole lot of fiberglass cutting
which is really hard on blades. I would opt for the Rockwell SoniCrafter
which Costco has for $79. Just my humble opinion.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 8:49:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools
Quick query of y'all. For cutting fiberglass, I know many
people have recommended those sonic vibrating tools, like
Fein, SoniCrafter, and others. Harbor freight has a
single and variable speed model, and there is a Rockwell
on sale by me now too.
Is there any outstanding reason to buy one over the other?
Has anyone had experience with the Harbor Freight cheap ones?
How about which blade cuts fiberglass best?
I'm going to buy one today, for fiberglass cutting, and
wanted to take some of your recommendations with me.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Tim,
I evaluated one of the cheap HF ones for EAA. Less than 6 months later it
failed from switch problems, likely related to overheating. I was able to
get a replacement from them, which I still have, but don't use much since I
got the initial cabin top and doors trimming done. For smaller jobs I much
prefer the fine control of a Dremel cutoff wheel. The HF tool is maybe a
bit easier to use than my die grinder with cutoff wheel. Probably doesn't
send dust and grit flying as far. Main weakness of HF version IMHO is that
it can't take continuous heavy cutting. The straight metal blades wear
quickly. The more expensive diamond grit blades don't seem to cut as fast
and make a wider cut.
Kelly
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Quick query of y'all. For cutting fiberglass, I know many
> people have recommended those sonic vibrating tools, like
> Fein, SoniCrafter, and others. Harbor freight has a
> single and variable speed model, and there is a Rockwell
> on sale by me now too.
>
> Is there any outstanding reason to buy one over the other?
>
> Has anyone had experience with the Harbor Freight cheap ones?
>
> How about which blade cuts fiberglass best?
>
> I'm going to buy one today, for fiberglass cutting, and
> wanted to take some of your recommendations with me.
>
> Tim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
| From: | "rleffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
I have two of the entry level HF multi-function tool. It's a long story that I
won't go into at the moment.
It would be better if it had a faster speed like the Fein, but I rarely had a problem
cutting anything. The fiberglass on the cabin cover was pretty easy to
cut. I did find that the flat bi-metal half moon blade lasted longer. I think
I went trough blades a whole lot faster than Geoff does with his Fein, but
since I don't use it regularly, HF was the less expensive option.
It's on sale now for $17.99. Hard to beat at that price.
I debated about upgrading to the faster unit from HF or another vendor, but couldn't
justify the expense since the one I had worked.
bob
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Paint - 90% done, 90% to go stage
RV-10 #40684
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387368#387368
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
Thanks guys for all of the feedback from all 5 of you
so far.
There are times when you buy tools to last a long time,
and times when you buy a tool for a few jobs. This one I
was mixed on. I'd like to have it last, because I did
order my RV-14 kit and may want to use it on that build.
But, what I need it for TODAY is cutting a fibergalss
bathtub out of the house.
As Bob says, the HF cheap single speed is $17.99
right now. Their variable speed model "Pro" one
is $34.99. Then there's the Rockwell SoniCrafter
that's $99 right now in our local stores.
Ultimately, it's worth $18 just to get the dang tub
cut out, so the HF one could be fine, but, I have
a hard time sometimes buying a cheap tool, so I'm still
on the fence. The RV-14 doesn't have nearly the amount
of fiberglass to deal with (Woo Hoo!!), but it may come
in handy on the cowl and some other parts. Like Kelly,
I used a cutoff wheel on the RV-10 a lot, and that worked
well. I used the air powered tools more though.
I just remember being COVERED in fiberglass when I got
done, so for tonights job I just KNOW I want to use a
vibrating tool. I guess I'll have to actually go
to HF today and put one in my hands, and see what
accessories it includes. As Bob mentioned, the blades
are important too, and I'll have to compare which one
will cost me more to use in the long run, especially
since the job is fiberglass and the blades will add up.
Dave, you talked about not having luck with HF for
electric tools, but said you used their blades in your
Fein. So the HF Blades work fine in a Fein then, eh?
I don't think I'll spend that kind of money on the
tool, but I wonder if the HF blades would work on the
SoniCrafter...
Still got to think about it. Maybe some google time
will help. I figured this would be a good discussion
for RV-10 builders looking for the tool too, since
that is where I first heard that these things are
good for fiberglass. I sure wish I would have had
one when I was doing the -10. If I were doing another
-10, I'd probably consider a Fein or at least real
nice copy.
Tim
On 11/9/2012 9:40 AM, rleffler wrote:
>
> I have two of the entry level HF multi-function tool. It's a long
> story that I won't go into at the moment.
>
> It would be better if it had a faster speed like the Fein, but I
> rarely had a problem cutting anything. The fiberglass on the cabin
> cover was pretty easy to cut. I did find that the flat bi-metal half
> moon blade lasted longer. I think I went trough blades a whole lot
> faster than Geoff does with his Fein, but since I don't use it
> regularly, HF was the less expensive option.
>
> It's on sale now for $17.99. Hard to beat at that price.
>
> I debated about upgrading to the faster unit from HF or another
> vendor, but couldn't justify the expense since the one I had worked.
>
> bob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
The key to using one of the multi-tools is the blade. The HSS blades will not cut
good and will not last. Spend the extra few dollars and purchase the bi-metal
blades. We built 2 Cozy MKIV planes and used only 2 bi-metal blades, Fein Bi-metal
at $70 each way back when. That's a whole lot of fiberglass cutting with
only 2 blades. The bi-metal blade I purchased from HF was only about $14 IIRC
and the quality of that blades is very good. It fit the Fein just fine and
most of the multi-tools out there now use universal mounting systems. I believe
that the Bosch uses its own though. The variable speed control is a must have
for doing different things. The Fein was about $400 way back when we purchased
it and gets used quite often in and out of the shop. They are half the price
now. Good tools that you plan to keep are well worth the extra cost. I would
not hesitate to purchase the Rockwell kit @ $79 from Costco. It is a well built
product that will last.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "rleffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 10:40:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools
I have two of the entry level HF multi-function tool. It's a long story that I
won't go into at the moment.
It would be better if it had a faster speed like the Fein, but I rarely had a problem
cutting anything. The fiberglass on the cabin cover was pretty easy to
cut. I did find that the flat bi-metal half moon blade lasted longer. I think
I went trough blades a whole lot faster than Geoff does with his Fein, but since
I don't use it regularly, HF was the less expensive option.
It's on sale now for $17.99. Hard to beat at that price.
I debated about upgrading to the faster unit from HF or another vendor, but couldn't
justify the expense since the one I had worked.
bob
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Paint - 90% done, 90% to go stage
RV-10 #40684
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387368#387368
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
On 11/9/2012 11:02 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Thanks guys for all of the feedback from all 5 of you
> so far.
>
> There are times when you buy tools to last a long time,
> and times when you buy a tool for a few jobs. This one I
> was mixed on. I'd like to have it last, because I did
> order my RV-14 kit and may want to use it on that build.
> But, what I need it for TODAY is cutting a fibergalss
> bathtub out of the house.
I used a coarse blade in the HF reciprocating saw (like a Sawzall) to
cut out a FG shower. Made quick work of it.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
You don't have an axe? Or a sawsall?
neal
-----Original Message-----
But, what I need it for TODAY is cutting a fibergalss bathtub out of the house.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
Hey Tim,
Just a thought or two. For the thinner cowl type cutting (your next
project -- awesome), I always use sheers (same ones as on aluminum) -- no
dust, no kerf, easy to final touch up with a belt sander. For tub removal
where finesse is the least concern, I use a sawsall with a course blade and
have at it! I'll be doing that soon to the tub/shower I built the room
around 26 years ago.
Later, - Lew
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Red Cube FWF install |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
Anyone be so kind as to post some pix on their firewall forward red cube installation?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387382#387382
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
This is either a baffling tip or a tip on baffling depending on the merit of my
idea.
Whilst dealing with piece DC-1001A, the forward part that goes around the prop
governor, I found myself having to remove quite a lot of material to be able to
get it on and off around the PG. I had to flex the back wall behind the governor
quite a bit and was worried about a crack forming there. My installation
is a little more complicated in that area because of mods necessary for my A/C
installation. Anyway, I came up with the idea to put a small piece of scrap
hinge on the back wall to allow the hole around the PB to "open up" during removal
and installation. I wish I would have thought of it sooner as I could
have removed a lot less material.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. Finishing kit and
FWF kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387385#387385
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Red Cube FWF install |
Hey Myron.- Don McDonald here.... I have-several... pic 6812c is actual
ly mine... white is rubber (totally mounted to the rubber)... Just an fyi..
I was having trouble with the fuel flow going to zero about 2% of the time
... wouldn't necessarily stay at zero, but long enough to screw up the fuel
burn calcs.... since moving it forward, it's absolutely dead nuts on!=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com>=0A
bject: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install=0A =0A--> RV10-List message posted
by: "woxofswa" =0A=0AAnyone be so kind as to post some pix o
n their firewall forward red cube installation?=0A=0AThanks in advance.=0A
=0A--------=0AMyron Nelson=0AMesa, AZ=0AEmp completed, QB wings completed,
legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing kit in progress.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Read this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Red Cube FWF install |
Myron here is how I mounted mine. 355 hrs and no problems
Geoff Combs
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 1:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install
Anyone be so kind as to post some pix on their firewall forward red cube
installation?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
finishing kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387382#387382
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Red Cube FWF install |
Just an FYI for the location of the fuel transducer. Soon there should be
some very good data on mounting this
fuel transducer in the tunnel as in the Vans instructions. From this data
this could be a real problem and I would think twice
about mounting it in the tunnel. Bob Newman at TCW will be providing a
report on this. The report will be
quite scary at to say the least. Bob said you can contact him directly to
discuss or wait for his report.
Geoff Combs
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install
Hey Myron. Don McDonald here.... I have several... pic 6812c is actually
mine... white is rubber (totally mounted to the rubber)... Just an fyi.. I
was having trouble with the fuel flow going to zero about 2% of the time...
wouldn't necessarily stay at zero, but long enough to screw up the fuel burn
calcs.... since moving it forward, it's absolutely dead nuts on!
From: woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 12:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install
Anyone be so kind as to post some pix on their firewall forward red cube
installation?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
finishing kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387382#387382
http:/ http://www.bui//www.homebuilthelp.com/"
<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
target="_blank">http://www.homebuilthelp.com/http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV10-L=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baffling tip |
| From: | Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Any pictures please Myron?
Warm regards
Patrick from Oz
On 10/11/2012, at 5:12 AM, "woxofswa" wrote:
>
> This is either a baffling tip or a tip on baffling depending on the merit of
my idea.
>
> Whilst dealing with piece DC-1001A, the forward part that goes around the prop
governor, I found myself having to remove quite a lot of material to be able
to get it on and off around the PG. I had to flex the back wall behind the governor
quite a bit and was worried about a crack forming there. My installation
is a little more complicated in that area because of mods necessary for my
A/C installation. Anyway, I came up with the idea to put a small piece of scrap
hinge on the back wall to allow the hole around the PB to "open up" during
removal and installation. I wish I would have thought of it sooner as I could
have removed a lot less material.
>
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. Finishing kit
and FWF kit in progress.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387385#387385
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
To circle back on the tool thing....I did end up getting the
Harbor Freight tool. I got it with a coupon for $34.99
for the variable speed version, which does do 20K RPM.
I also bought a diamond blade, a couple extra wood/metal
circle blades, and a better pluger blade in addition to the
one that came with it. I bought the $9.99 2 yr warranty
too. It was $95 tax included, with all the extras.
I read a few reviews of the HF one, and basically it
was comparable in quality to the Rockwell. People said
the old single speed was junk, but the variable was
very nice and they used it for tons of things. Some
did have problems, but with the added warranty they
said they'd go that route because if something goes wrong
you just bring it in and grab a new one. So for the
money, it was a good way to go. The blades, incidentally,
say they're good for Fein, Rockwell, Bosch, and all of the
brands, so they must be very similar. So if it works,
it should be good for me. If I have any real positive
or negative comments I'll circle back and give them to
you.
I'm just glad the tub wasn't peach like Robins...but it
is an awful gold color from the 70's. Resurfacing isn't
something I'd like, but Neil's idea of the axe makes
the project sound fun!
On the topic of RV-14...a couple have asked "Why?".
Well, I have a crystal ball. My crystal ball tells
me that my kids will not want to travel with us when
they are 15-18 years old unless they have friends with
them. We only have a 4-seat plane. This gives us
6 seats of capacity for X/C trips, with 2 planes
with similar speeds and ranges. But, it does a couple
other things.... it gives the kids a plane to learn
in, it gives a fun plane for local flights, and it
gives me an aerobatic plane to play in. It's a toy
plane, and one that I'm only planning to keep for
maybe 10 years. It's "disposable". My RV-10 will
probably never be sold. This one I'll probably try
to get partners in, too. So I won't be quite as
attached to this plane (I think), but it should be
a lot of fun!
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
Re the saw. I'll be interested in reading your review somewhere down
the line.
I felt like I tried 'everything' when I was at the FG top phase. I did
get a version of the vibrating tool. Honestly, after a week of
experimentation, it collected dust for the last 3 years. I need a demo
or something.
I went thru 2 HF air powered recip saws. They worked until they
failed. I think you used these too. Cheap but hard to control
precisely. I did cut my landing light hole out with one and survived
the experience.
One thing worked very well for me and that is the Sawzall type of recip
saws with a custom blade. Maybe this is what you meant by a diamond
blade, maybe the bi metal, I don't know. But What I got was an abrasive
type of blade and cut it length-wise so that it could turn tighter
corners. The (diamond?) abrasive cuts much better than any toothed
blade, it's easy to handle even on a big recip Sawzall, and it lasts.
Based on that experience, I try to avoid using my bladed tools on any
fiberglass. Abrasive countersinks are particularly effective too. But
you probably know all that already.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your reasons for the '14. Fantastic!
Bill
On 11/9/2012 4:16 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> To circle back on the tool thing....I did end up getting the
> Harbor Freight tool. I got it with a coupon for $34.99
> for the variable speed version, which does do 20K RPM.
> I also bought a diamond blade, a couple extra wood/metal
> circle blades, and a better pluger blade in addition to the
> one that came with it. I bought the $9.99 2 yr warranty
> too. It was $95 tax included, with all the extras.
>
> I read a few reviews of the HF one, and basically it
> was comparable in quality to the Rockwell. People said
> the old single speed was junk, but the variable was
> very nice and they used it for tons of things. Some
> did have problems, but with the added warranty they
> said they'd go that route because if something goes wrong
> you just bring it in and grab a new one. So for the
> money, it was a good way to go. The blades, incidentally,
> say they're good for Fein, Rockwell, Bosch, and all of the
> brands, so they must be very similar. So if it works,
> it should be good for me. If I have any real positive
> or negative comments I'll circle back and give them to
> you.
>
> I'm just glad the tub wasn't peach like Robins...but it
> is an awful gold color from the 70's. Resurfacing isn't
> something I'd like, but Neil's idea of the axe makes
> the project sound fun!
>
> On the topic of RV-14...a couple have asked "Why?".
>
> Well, I have a crystal ball. My crystal ball tells
> me that my kids will not want to travel with us when
> they are 15-18 years old unless they have friends with
> them. We only have a 4-seat plane. This gives us
> 6 seats of capacity for X/C trips, with 2 planes
> with similar speeds and ranges. But, it does a couple
> other things.... it gives the kids a plane to learn
> in, it gives a fun plane for local flights, and it
> gives me an aerobatic plane to play in. It's a toy
> plane, and one that I'm only planning to keep for
> maybe 10 years. It's "disposable". My RV-10 will
> probably never be sold. This one I'll probably try
> to get partners in, too. So I won't be quite as
> attached to this plane (I think), but it should be
> a lot of fun!
>
> Tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Red Cube FWF install |
Myron,
Here is a pic of mine. 280 hours with no problems. I fireslleved mine per
directions but I didn't follow the statement: Do not attach the transducer
directly to the engine......
Here is some notes from the installation manual.
Fuel Flow Transducer Notes
. NEVER blow through the transducer. Keep the yellow caps on until it is
installed.
. The fuel flow transducer(s) should be installed in a straight section of
your fuel line. (6 straight inches on each side is desirable).
. The fuel line should not drop down after exiting the transducer.
. The wires MUST NOT come out of the bottom of transducer. Wires pointing up
is the best .
. When assembling fittings into the 1/4" NPT inlet and outlet ports do not
exceed a torque value of 25 ft.-lbs.
. Do not use Teflon tape in an aircraft fuel system. Use "Fuel Lube/Ez Turn
Lubricant"
. The transducer should be mounted down stream of a fuel filter.
. Do not attach the transducer directly to the engine to avoid excessive
vibration.
. Do not mount the transducer near the exhaust systems or other hot engine
components.
. If the transducer is in the engine compartment, it should be covered in
fire sleeve to protect it from excessive heat.
. The transducer wires may be trimmed any desired length
Possible Transducer Placement Locations:
1. Between the auxiliary electric boost pump and the engines mechanical fuel
pump.
2. Between fuel injection servo and the distribution block.
3. Between the Engine driven pump and the Carburetor
Note: If your engine is equipped with a fuel return line from the carburetor
back to the fuel tank you will need to install two flow transducers.
One in the feed line from the fuel pump to the carburetor and one in the
return line from the carburetor back to the fuel tank. This applies to
certain Continental engines and Rotax 912(ULS) and 914 engines.
----- Original Message -----
From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install
>
> Anyone be so kind as to post some pix on their firewall forward red cube
> installation?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
> finishing kit in progress.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387382#387382
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
OK, I've used the tool a bit now, so I can at least give
preliminary comments on it. I think that if you hold a
steady hand, you can do some pretty good straight cuts with
the tool. The standard 3/4 round blades cut pretty well and you
could rough cut with them and file it to finish for any
fiberglass work you do. It isn't nearly as fast as the
rough blade sawsall, but you won't find anything to use a
sawsall on for a plane anyway. The blade seemed to last a
pretty good amount of time. The glass was nearly 1/4" thick
and I probably cut 25' or more of distance with it. It's
pretty worn down now. But, if you were trimming wingtips
or something, it seems like it wouldn't do a bad job at all.
(just a guess since I wasn't trimming wingtips) The HF tool
didn't have any operational problems and I did run it until
it got pretty darn warm and then gave it a break. It does come
with new brushes, which many tools don't, so that's a plus.
All in all, I'm glad I bought it....it was real comforting
when cutting into the area that had electrical and network
wiring behind it....I didn't have to worry about wrecking
something too bad. It was also safer than the sawsall when
moving my hands near the cutter.
So, I'm sure there are better tools, like the Fein or some
good name brands, but this one seems like it would survive
an RV-10 build for the small amount of cutting you'd do
with it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 11/9/2012 3:16 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> To circle back on the tool thing....I did end up getting the
> Harbor Freight tool. I got it with a coupon for $34.99
> for the variable speed version, which does do 20K RPM.
> I also bought a diamond blade, a couple extra wood/metal
> circle blades, and a better pluger blade in addition to the
> one that came with it. I bought the $9.99 2 yr warranty
> too. It was $95 tax included, with all the extras.
>
> I read a few reviews of the HF one, and basically it
> was comparable in quality to the Rockwell. People said
> the old single speed was junk, but the variable was
> very nice and they used it for tons of things. Some
> did have problems, but with the added warranty they
> said they'd go that route because if something goes wrong
> you just bring it in and grab a new one. So for the
> money, it was a good way to go. The blades, incidentally,
> say they're good for Fein, Rockwell, Bosch, and all of the
> brands, so they must be very similar. So if it works,
> it should be good for me. If I have any real positive
> or negative comments I'll circle back and give them to
> you.
>
> I'm just glad the tub wasn't peach like Robins...but it
> is an awful gold color from the 70's. Resurfacing isn't
> something I'd like, but Neil's idea of the axe makes
> the project sound fun!
>
> On the topic of RV-14...a couple have asked "Why?".
>
> Well, I have a crystal ball. My crystal ball tells
> me that my kids will not want to travel with us when
> they are 15-18 years old unless they have friends with
> them. We only have a 4-seat plane. This gives us
> 6 seats of capacity for X/C trips, with 2 planes
> with similar speeds and ranges. But, it does a couple
> other things.... it gives the kids a plane to learn
> in, it gives a fun plane for local flights, and it
> gives me an aerobatic plane to play in. It's a toy
> plane, and one that I'm only planning to keep for
> maybe 10 years. It's "disposable". My RV-10 will
> probably never be sold. This one I'll probably try
> to get partners in, too. So I won't be quite as
> attached to this plane (I think), but it should be
> a lot of fun!
>
> Tim
> \
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
PS: The biggest benefit? There was very little dust compared to
other cutting methods. The sawsall made a mess. The oscillating
tool was not bad.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 11/9/2012 6:37 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> OK, I've used the tool a bit now, so I can at least give
> preliminary comments on it. I think that if you hold a
> steady hand, you can do some pretty good straight cuts with
> the tool. The standard 3/4 round blades cut pretty well and you
> could rough cut with them and file it to finish for any
> fiberglass work you do. It isn't nearly as fast as the
> rough blade sawsall, but you won't find anything to use a
> sawsall on for a plane anyway. The blade seemed to last a
> pretty good amount of time. The glass was nearly 1/4" thick
> and I probably cut 25' or more of distance with it. It's
> pretty worn down now. But, if you were trimming wingtips
> or something, it seems like it wouldn't do a bad job at all.
> (just a guess since I wasn't trimming wingtips) The HF tool
> didn't have any operational problems and I did run it until
> it got pretty darn warm and then gave it a break. It does come
> with new brushes, which many tools don't, so that's a plus.
> All in all, I'm glad I bought it....it was real comforting
> when cutting into the area that had electrical and network
> wiring behind it....I didn't have to worry about wrecking
> something too bad. It was also safer than the sawsall when
> moving my hands near the cutter.
>
> So, I'm sure there are better tools, like the Fein or some
> good name brands, but this one seems like it would survive
> an RV-10 build for the small amount of cutting you'd do
> with it.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
> On 11/9/2012 3:16 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> To circle back on the tool thing....I did end up getting the
>> Harbor Freight tool. I got it with a coupon for $34.99
>> for the variable speed version, which does do 20K RPM.
>> I also bought a diamond blade, a couple extra wood/metal
>> circle blades, and a better pluger blade in addition to the
>> one that came with it. I bought the $9.99 2 yr warranty
>> too. It was $95 tax included, with all the extras.
>>
>> I read a few reviews of the HF one, and basically it
>> was comparable in quality to the Rockwell. People said
>> the old single speed was junk, but the variable was
>> very nice and they used it for tons of things. Some
>> did have problems, but with the added warranty they
>> said they'd go that route because if something goes wrong
>> you just bring it in and grab a new one. So for the
>> money, it was a good way to go. The blades, incidentally,
>> say they're good for Fein, Rockwell, Bosch, and all of the
>> brands, so they must be very similar. So if it works,
>> it should be good for me. If I have any real positive
>> or negative comments I'll circle back and give them to
>> you.
>>
>> I'm just glad the tub wasn't peach like Robins...but it
>> is an awful gold color from the 70's. Resurfacing isn't
>> something I'd like, but Neil's idea of the axe makes
>> the project sound fun!
>>
>> On the topic of RV-14...a couple have asked "Why?".
>>
>> Well, I have a crystal ball. My crystal ball tells
>> me that my kids will not want to travel with us when
>> they are 15-18 years old unless they have friends with
>> them. We only have a 4-seat plane. This gives us
>> 6 seats of capacity for X/C trips, with 2 planes
>> with similar speeds and ranges. But, it does a couple
>> other things.... it gives the kids a plane to learn
>> in, it gives a fun plane for local flights, and it
>> gives me an aerobatic plane to play in. It's a toy
>> plane, and one that I'm only planning to keep for
>> maybe 10 years. It's "disposable". My RV-10 will
>> probably never be sold. This one I'll probably try
>> to get partners in, too. So I won't be quite as
>> attached to this plane (I think), but it should be
>> a lot of fun!
>>
>> Tim
>> \
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
My Fein tool allows for a vacuum attachment, though it's a bit cumbersome to use
that way
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Painting
On Nov 9, 2012, at 4:46 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> PS: The biggest benefit? There was very little dust compared to
> other cutting methods. The sawsall made a mess. The oscillating
> tool was not bad.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
>
> On 11/9/2012 6:37 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> OK, I've used the tool a bit now, so I can at least give
>> preliminary comments on it. I think that if you hold a
>> steady hand, you can do some pretty good straight cuts with
>> the tool. The standard 3/4 round blades cut pretty well and you
>> could rough cut with them and file it to finish for any
>> fiberglass work you do. It isn't nearly as fast as the
>> rough blade sawsall, but you won't find anything to use a
>> sawsall on for a plane anyway. The blade seemed to last a
>> pretty good amount of time. The glass was nearly 1/4" thick
>> and I probably cut 25' or more of distance with it. It's
>> pretty worn down now. But, if you were trimming wingtips
>> or something, it seems like it wouldn't do a bad job at all.
>> (just a guess since I wasn't trimming wingtips) The HF tool
>> didn't have any operational problems and I did run it until
>> it got pretty darn warm and then gave it a break. It does come
>> with new brushes, which many tools don't, so that's a plus.
>> All in all, I'm glad I bought it....it was real comforting
>> when cutting into the area that had electrical and network
>> wiring behind it....I didn't have to worry about wrecking
>> something too bad. It was also safer than the sawsall when
>> moving my hands near the cutter.
>>
>> So, I'm sure there are better tools, like the Fein or some
>> good name brands, but this one seems like it would survive
>> an RV-10 build for the small amount of cutting you'd do
>> with it.
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/9/2012 3:16 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>>
>>> To circle back on the tool thing....I did end up getting the
>>> Harbor Freight tool. I got it with a coupon for $34.99
>>> for the variable speed version, which does do 20K RPM.
>>> I also bought a diamond blade, a couple extra wood/metal
>>> circle blades, and a better pluger blade in addition to the
>>> one that came with it. I bought the $9.99 2 yr warranty
>>> too. It was $95 tax included, with all the extras.
>>>
>>> I read a few reviews of the HF one, and basically it
>>> was comparable in quality to the Rockwell. People said
>>> the old single speed was junk, but the variable was
>>> very nice and they used it for tons of things. Some
>>> did have problems, but with the added warranty they
>>> said they'd go that route because if something goes wrong
>>> you just bring it in and grab a new one. So for the
>>> money, it was a good way to go. The blades, incidentally,
>>> say they're good for Fein, Rockwell, Bosch, and all of the
>>> brands, so they must be very similar. So if it works,
>>> it should be good for me. If I have any real positive
>>> or negative comments I'll circle back and give them to
>>> you.
>>>
>>> I'm just glad the tub wasn't peach like Robins...but it
>>> is an awful gold color from the 70's. Resurfacing isn't
>>> something I'd like, but Neil's idea of the axe makes
>>> the project sound fun!
>>>
>>> On the topic of RV-14...a couple have asked "Why?".
>>>
>>> Well, I have a crystal ball. My crystal ball tells
>>> me that my kids will not want to travel with us when
>>> they are 15-18 years old unless they have friends with
>>> them. We only have a 4-seat plane. This gives us
>>> 6 seats of capacity for X/C trips, with 2 planes
>>> with similar speeds and ranges. But, it does a couple
>>> other things.... it gives the kids a plane to learn
>>> in, it gives a fun plane for local flights, and it
>>> gives me an aerobatic plane to play in. It's a toy
>>> plane, and one that I'm only planning to keep for
>>> maybe 10 years. It's "disposable". My RV-10 will
>>> probably never be sold. This one I'll probably try
>>> to get partners in, too. So I won't be quite as
>>> attached to this plane (I think), but it should be
>>> a lot of fun!
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> \
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
I imagine with your experience now, and no forming of parts, and all
holes already final size, you can probably whip it out over the winter, eh?
Beats wasting time shoveling the driveway...just stay inside in the shop
and telecommute to work when they NEED your expertise.
:-P
On 11/9/2012 2:16 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> To circle back on the tool thing....I did end up getting the
> Harbor Freight tool. I got it with a coupon for $34.99
> for the variable speed version, which does do 20K RPM.
> I also bought a diamond blade, a couple extra wood/metal
> circle blades, and a better pluger blade in addition to the
> one that came with it. I bought the $9.99 2 yr warranty
> too. It was $95 tax included, with all the extras.
>
> I read a few reviews of the HF one, and basically it
> was comparable in quality to the Rockwell. People said
> the old single speed was junk, but the variable was
> very nice and they used it for tons of things. Some
> did have problems, but with the added warranty they
> said they'd go that route because if something goes wrong
> you just bring it in and grab a new one. So for the
> money, it was a good way to go. The blades, incidentally,
> say they're good for Fein, Rockwell, Bosch, and all of the
> brands, so they must be very similar. So if it works,
> it should be good for me. If I have any real positive
> or negative comments I'll circle back and give them to
> you.
>
> I'm just glad the tub wasn't peach like Robins...but it
> is an awful gold color from the 70's. Resurfacing isn't
> something I'd like, but Neil's idea of the axe makes
> the project sound fun!
>
> On the topic of RV-14...a couple have asked "Why?".
>
> Well, I have a crystal ball. My crystal ball tells
> me that my kids will not want to travel with us when
> they are 15-18 years old unless they have friends with
> them. We only have a 4-seat plane. This gives us
> 6 seats of capacity for X/C trips, with 2 planes
> with similar speeds and ranges. But, it does a couple
> other things.... it gives the kids a plane to learn
> in, it gives a fun plane for local flights, and it
> gives me an aerobatic plane to play in. It's a toy
> plane, and one that I'm only planning to keep for
> maybe 10 years. It's "disposable". My RV-10 will
> probably never be sold. This one I'll probably try
> to get partners in, too. So I won't be quite as
> attached to this plane (I think), but it should be
> a lot of fun!
>
> Tim
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Support The Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today at:
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Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Farner <steve.farner(at)bellevue.edu> |
| Subject: | Elevator Rib Tip Assembly |
I'm trying to determine whether the Rib Tip Assembly is attached over or un
der the main elevator skins. Does anyone recall which skin is supposed to
be on top? I believe the main skin is on top, but the picture in the manual
appears to show the rib tip skin on top.
Steve Farner
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Cutting - Vibrating tools |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Tim brought up a good point - it's a lot safer to use.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387504#387504
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Rib Tip Assembly |
Hi Steve,
I believe Figure 4 page 9-15 shows the main skin on the outside, which
worked fine for me.
Gordon Anderson
41015 Switzerland
On Nov 10, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Steve Farner wrote:
> I'm trying to determine whether the Rib Tip Assembly is attached over
or under the main elevator skins. Does anyone recall which skin is
supposed to be on top? I believe the main skin is on top, but the
picture in the manual appears to show the rib tip skin on top.
>
> Steve Farner
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Fellow builders,
Some of you may be aware that I=99ve seen some deviations in fuel
pressure and flow in cruise flight in my RV-10: I=99ve got to
root cause.
After the past 10 months of investigation and discussions and general
head scratching I finally have come to a conclusion.
Executive summary: Don=99t mount the fuel flow sender in the
tunnel per the plans! It has too much pressure drop and gets too warm
in this location, this can lead to vapor lock. The onset seen as
deviations in fuel pressure and fuel flow.
The full report can be downloaded at:
http://tcwtech.com/Fuel%20flow%20write-up.pdf
Bob Newman
N541RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Bob,
Are you running AVGAS or MOGAS?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
Woman is 53 But Looks 25
Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/509f2e84c1f652e843105st03vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | "charliewaffles" <mcooper(at)live.com> |
Thanks for sharing your experience and the data. The charts and actual data are
great to see. I don't doubt typos have fixed your problem, but I wonder if this
is coincidental to the tunnel issue. Perhaps you can help me understand the
following questions?
1) if moving the red cube out of the tunnel (amoung other things) resulted in no
more problems, is your hyphothesis that the cube is heating up and causing vapor
lock?
2) all of the other people that have posted about red cube issues in the tunnel
have said the reporting of fuel consumption is high when the pump is on, but
no one else has indicate the say pressure drop and flow increase relating to a
cube in the tunnel.
3) is it possible insulating the lines and even the cube in the tunnel would do
just as good of a job? Is any where mounted to the engine or the firewall hotsidemreally
going to be cooler than the tunnel?
4) if the red cube heating in the tunnel caused the vapor lock, wouldnt that still
occur when it was on the engine and exposed to heat there?
5) it sounds like several things wee changed at once and undoubtedly fixed your
problem. How sure of you it was the red cube and not say a bend in a line, the
routing or one of the other variables that were changed.
I've gone back and forth on moving the red cube during my build. Most of the data
and issues so far with the tunnel have been reporting issues, not performance
related. If the cube IS causing vapor lock (or almost) and LOP is affected,
then that is a great reason to move it. I just wonder if we have enough info
yet to say that.
Just my initial thoughts and perhaps you are onto something here.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387531#387531
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
Bob,
Thanks for documenting your findings! Thankfully, I had already placed my r
ed cube fwf.
I'm disappointed in Van's traditional "not invented here" response. Your e
mpirical data, along with the many RV-10s with the cubes fwf, you would thin
k Van's would listen and consider that there may be another way of doing thi
ngs that may be better.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 10, 2012, at 8:32 PM, "bob-tcw" wrote:
> Fellow builders,
>
> Some of you may be aware that I=99ve seen some deviations in fuel pr
essure and flow in cruise flight in my RV-10: I=99ve got to root cau
se.
>
> After the past 10 months of investigation and discussions and general head
scratching I finally have come to a conclusion.
>
> Executive summary: Don=99t mount the fuel flow sender in the tunnel
per the plans! It has too much pressure drop and gets too warm in this loc
ation, this can lead to vapor lock. The onset seen as deviations in fuel p
ressure and fuel flow.
>
>
> The full report can be downloaded at:
>
> http://tcwtech.com/Fuel%20flow%20write-up.pdf
>
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
It may be that the red cube sensor is more picky than others. I've never had
a complaint about it, but mine is a flo scan. It seems the complaints all s
eem to come from those with the cube. So may e there is a difference. I *th
ink* the floor bracket holes were a perfect match for the flo scan, so that m
ay be what they used and designed around.
Tim
On Nov 11, 2012, at 2:08 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for documenting your findings! Thankfully, I had already placed m
y red cube fwf.
>
> I'm disappointed in Van's traditional "not invented here" response. Your
empirical data, along with the many RV-10s with the cubes fwf, you would th
ink Van's would listen and consider that there may be another way of doing t
hings that may be better.
>
> Bob
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 10, 2012, at 8:32 PM, "bob-tcw" wrote:
>
>> Fellow builders,
>>
>> Some of you may be aware that I=99ve seen some deviations in fuel p
ressure and flow in cruise flight in my RV-10: I=99ve got to root ca
use.
>>
>> After the past 10 months of investigation and discussions and general hea
d scratching I finally have come to a conclusion.
>>
>> Executive summary: Don=99t mount the fuel flow sender in the tunne
l per the plans! It has too much pressure drop and gets too warm in this lo
cation, this can lead to vapor lock. The onset seen as deviations in fuel
pressure and fuel flow.
>>
>>
>> The full report can be downloaded at:
>>
>> http://tcwtech.com/Fuel%20flow%20write-up.pdf
>>
>>
>> Bob Newman
>> N541RV
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
=========
>> ctric.com
>> >www.buildersbooks.com
>> uilthelp.com
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> =========================
=========
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> =========================
=========
>> cs.com
>> =========================
=========
>>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> |
Great post Bob - thanks for sharing. One of the important factors to note about
vapor lock is that the boiling point of fuel is considerably higher with higher
pressure. So the fuel before the mechanical pump is at a much lower pressure
and therefore has a much lower boiling point.
This brings back memories of problems we used to have before moving our Flow Scan
transducer to the location between the servo and spider as you did. We also
saw our fuel pressure drop on long high climbs, we added a cooling shroud to
the mechanical fuel pump. At some point we also moved the sensor, we no longer
see fuel pressure drops. I think it is fair to say that we may have experienced
the same issue as you had.
We did not see this change 'fix' our LOP stumbles, but since we were not looking
for this to effect our LOP issues I can not tell you if it made an improvement.
I still wonder if the fuel in the lines between the spider and the injectors
are vaporizing at the very low flows and low pressures.
Bottom line, your data backs up your hypothesis, thanks for sharing. There are
a lot of aircraft out there with the transducer running between the servo and
the spider. The readings are more stable, and you have offered yet one more
data point in support of moving the transducer out of the tunnel. Vans seems
to reason that they do not like the sensor up front since it is in a hotter, higher
vibration area. I wonder if either of these are actually fact, the tunnel
is quite hot. When you directly attach a piece of aluminum to the hot bottom
surface of the aircraft and then bolt the sensor tightly to that nice heat sink
subjected to all of the high frequency vibrations of the airframe, I really
don't know if it is any better off. The sensor between the servo and spider
is suspended in air mounted between two hoses which I think would do a good job
of dampening vibrations. I have NO data to say which location is higher in
vibration or temperature. I can only say that both locations are used today,
and I do not see reports of these sensors failing in either location.
If you are still building you really need to ask yourself what the BENEFIT to mounting
the sensor in the tunnel is. I struggle to see any downside to mounting
the sensor between the servo and spider, especially after seeing Bob's well
done data driven report. The issues are real, the solution is known, just my
two cents worth - Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387539#387539
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Bob,
Thanks for the great post. I had the similar issues with another (certified) aircraft
when the flow transducer (floscan) was installed between the electric
and mechanical fuel pump. It is my belief that the transducers don't like to
be on the suction side of the mechanical diaphragm pumps due to the pulsing of
the pump.
When we looked at the RV-10 plans it was clear to us that putting it on the output
side of the mechanical pump was the correct way to go. We also have it mounted
between the servo and the spider and it is working just fine.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387541#387541
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
I had the exact same thought, Bob is a smart guy so I take his hard work serious
and have thought this through.
I have had a psi issue maybe 4 times no real consistency on when however in 110
hours of flying.
Here is my thought on moving
1 Dynon tells installers NOT to install cube FWF for the EMS install
2 Vans has theirs in the tunnel and told
me to not put the cube there
3 it isn't broke
The general and Tim both mentioned
It only is an issue with the fuel pump on and even then not Big issue
3.2 hour flight yesterday, added 48.2 gallons when I returned because I was empty
my computer said I would need
48.6, it was dark and I don't think I filled it to the top. Regardless close enough.
I have no issues, not even with hot starts
If it isn't an issue why all the work to move it?
Good information however. Thanks Bob!
On Nov 10, 2012, at 9:01 PM, "charliewaffles" wrote:
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and the data. The charts and actual data are
great to see. I don't doubt typos have fixed your problem, but I wonder if
this is coincidental to the tunnel issue. Perhaps you can help me understand the
following questions?
>
> 1) if moving the red cube out of the tunnel (amoung other things) resulted in
no more problems, is your hyphothesis that the cube is heating up and causing
vapor lock?
>
> 2) all of the other people that have posted about red cube issues in the tunnel
have said the reporting of fuel consumption is high when the pump is on, but
no one else has indicate the say pressure drop and flow increase relating to
a cube in the tunnel.
>
> 3) is it possible insulating the lines and even the cube in the tunnel would
do just as good of a job? Is any where mounted to the engine or the firewall hotsidemreally
going to be cooler than the tunnel?
>
> 4) if the red cube heating in the tunnel caused the vapor lock, wouldnt that
still occur when it was on the engine and exposed to heat there?
>
> 5) it sounds like several things wee changed at once and undoubtedly fixed your
problem. How sure of you it was the red cube and not say a bend in a line,
the routing or one of the other variables that were changed.
>
> I've gone back and forth on moving the red cube during my build. Most of the
data and issues so far with the tunnel have been reporting issues, not performance
related. If the cube IS causing vapor lock (or almost) and LOP is affected,
then that is a great reason to move it. I just wonder if we have enough info
yet to say that.
>
> Just my initial thoughts and perhaps you are onto something here.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387531#387531
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
I received a bunch of comments off-list as well as on-list. I'll try to
summarize here for everyone.
1) My tunnel has always been insulated (on the bottom) since day 1 and
comparing to what others reported early on about hot tunnels I always
thought mine was relatively cool since in any operating condition I could
easily and comfortably keep my hand on it. Also, my firewall is insulated
on the engine side with koolmat silicone membrane.
2) I did change two things at once, I realize its not the absolutely
scientific way to do an experiment, but given the work to get in and out of
my tunnel, I had to do every thing I could in one shot.
I moved the fuel cube and the I insulated the replacement line I
installed from the electric fuel pump to the firewall bulkhead fitting.
3) Yes I used to see elevated fuel flow readings with the electric fuel
pump on just like everyone else with the fuel cube in the tunnel. However,
these high readings are totally an artifact of turbulence in the line caused
by the fuel pump. Switching the fuel pump on and off had no noticeable
effect on egt, so the fuel flow was definitely NOT actually changing.
4) The problem with the fuel cube is that of all the fittings in the
system it has the most significant pressure drop for a given flow rate. I
did dig into this extensively, the electric fuel pump in the OFF state and
fuel cube each have a similar pressure drop, followed by the pressure drop
associated with each elbow and each length of tubing. Each of these
pressures drops moves the fuel closer to its vapor pressure level.
Here's the engineering details: Avgas has a maximum reid vapor pressure of
49kPa @ 38 C or about 7.1 psi absolute pressure, a standard day at sea
level has an absolute pressure of 14.7 psi, as we know, as we go up in
altitude and/or up in temp the absolute pressure falls. When the absolute
pressure meets the vapor pressure, the fuel begins to vaporize and bad
things happen to fuel flow. So know if we go up to 11,000 ft and we raise
the temp of the tunnel to 40 C which is nice comfortable temperature as
detected by putting one's hand on the tunnel, we would have effectively a
density altitude of 16,050 ft inside the tunnel as far as the fuel would
know. So now converting the 16,050 ft to absolute pressure we get 7.9 psi.
Therefore, to avoid vapor lock issues the total pressure drop at our flow
rate of about 13 gph better be less than 0.8 psi. The fuel cube and the
pump each are in the 0.15 to 0.25 psi range depending on flow rates and how
you look at the charts I could dig up. So subtracting those two pressure
drops from the absolute pressure we are down to pressure margin of maybe 0.3
or 0.4 psi for all other fittings, tubing and the selector valve.
So clearly the best two things to do are to insulate everything possible
from additional heating and remove any pressure drops you can from the
suction side of the fuel system.
The benefit to moving the fuel cube to the pressure side of the fuel system
is now the 0.25 psi drop is subtracted off of the gauge and absolute
pressure, so at 26 psi gauge for the same conditions above we would be at
33.9 psi absolute minus the 0.25 psi drop, which is completely
inconsequential.
If I missed any of the comments, please tee them up again.
Bob Newman
N541RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Bob,
In your calculation wouldn't you have to include the flow rate of the fuel and
the OAT and the heat absorption of the fuel. Obviously the heat absorption would
be different at various flow rates and would be at it maximum amount at 0
GPH. This would be more indicative of the fuel temp. in the lines during flight.
While the tunnel may be at 40C the fuel will be at a much lower temp while
it is flowing and should provide a more significant margin, assuming it is not
40C outside and the fuel has hot soaked to 40C!
I too insulated my firewall and the floor of the tunnel with fibrefrax and fireproof
black 1/2 foam on top of it. My tunnel is cool to the touch during flight
with the heat off. I have not used the heat yet and will see how it behaves
with the heat valve open. I also firesleeved the steel fuel line out of the
pump
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387544#387544
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I agree that the sending unit NEEDS to be downstream of both fuel pumps.
I think it is instructive to look at EI's install instructions for their
fuel flow instrument, because they are the supplier of the red cube, that
is STC approved on most engines. Either EI or Flowscan can be the
manufacturer, but the install instructions are the same.
Note that for ALL engines with fuel injection that do NOT have a return
line to the fuel tank(that would not include purge lines), they specify
locating the sending unit between the mechanical fuel pump and the fuel
servo.
The only time they specify between the fuel servo and the spider is for
injected engines with a fuel return line. I don't believe anyone is using
such a system on the IO-540. Van's location is directly contrary to EI's
STC approved instructions. Such a deviation would not be approved on a
certified aircraft.
http://www.buy-ei.com/Information/II%20-%20FP-5.pdf
On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 7:06 AM, bill.peyton wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> When we looked at the RV-10 plans it was clear to us that putting it on
> the output side of the mechanical pump was the correct way to go. We also
> have it mounted between the servo and the spider and it is working just
> fine.
>
> --------
> Bill
> WA0SYV
> Aviation Partners, LLC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I just check my current Dynon Skyview install manual. It actually says
location of the fuel sending unit, which is the EI FT-60 (they no longer
supply the floscan.) They say the location is up to the builder, and that
it is common for it to be between the electric and mechanical pumps. Their
only recommendation with regard to the firewall is for the EMS unit, not
the fuel flow sending unit. I agree with those that have concern as to the
response of the sending unit to suction of the mechanical pump.
Given that EI is the manufacturer, I would say best performance will be
obtained following their guidance to install between mechanical pump and
fuel servo.
On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Pascal wrote:
>
>
> Here is my thought on moving
> 1 Dynon tells installers NOT to install cube FWF for the EMS install
> 2 Vans has theirs in the tunnel and told
> me to not put the cube there
> 3 it isn't broke
>
> The general and Tim both mentioned
> It only is an issue with the fuel pump on and even then not Big issue
>
> 3.2 hour flight yesterday, added 48.2 gallons when I returned because I
> was empty my computer said I would need
> 48.6, it was dark and I don't think I filled it to the top. Regardless
> close enough.
>
> I have no issues, not even with hot starts
> If it isn't an issue why all the work to move it?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
Well, I have applied flame to it and also tried sanding it to see if the
edges show. Both were negative, so I will continue sanding it and
filling where necessary. Thanks to all for your advice and suggestions.
Ed Godfrey
40717
On 11/3/2012 6:49 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
Bill's right, that's most likely an area that never had peel-ply over
it. If it does turn out to still have some on it, you should be able to
get ahold of an edge and tear it off. In that area, it wouldn't hurt to
just leave some peel ply there but that's not really the best practice.
It looks to me like it's just plain glass though.
I'd sand it with some 80 grit and finish it however you like. That's
another way to find the peel ply--if the edges ball up when you sand it,
you'll know it's peel-ply.
I painted some of those hard-to-finish areas with truck bed liner.
Turned out pretty well.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Opinions please |
Its just glass that wasn't peel plied. You would immediately see the fibers of
the peel ply show up white after you hit it with some course 36 or 40 sand paper.
Clean the area up to your satisfaction and move on.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Godfrey" <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:37:00 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Opinions please
Well, I have applied flame to it and also tried sanding it to see if the
edges show. Both were negative, so I will continue sanding it and
filling where necessary. Thanks to all for your advice and suggestions.
Ed Godfrey
40717
On 11/3/2012 6:49 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
Bill's right, that's most likely an area that never had peel-ply over
it. If it does turn out to still have some on it, you should be able to
get ahold of an edge and tear it off. In that area, it wouldn't hurt to
just leave some peel ply there but that's not really the best practice.
It looks to me like it's just plain glass though.
I'd sand it with some 80 grit and finish it however you like. That's
another way to find the peel ply--if the edges ball up when you sand it,
you'll know it's peel-ply.
I painted some of those hard-to-finish areas with truck bed liner.
Turned out pretty well.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rudder trim RV-10 |
I have a new RV-10 trim kit from Aerosports Products in the
box unopened I will sell for $195.oo, I will pay freight in USA. I built and
fly an RV6 and won this in a drawing at an RV Fly-In.
Contact: jrdial@hal-pc.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | Fred Williams <drfred1960(at)gmail.com> |
Bob,
Thanks for your excellent write up. I have a very similar set up and have occasionally
noted the fluctuations in fuel flow just as you have described. I also,
have not been able to run LOP secondary to the engine running too rough.
I don't feel that I have a "hot tunnel" either. Does anybody know if the flow
is an optical pick up or is there a rotor sensing the fuel flow?
I just started my condition inspection and am seriously thinking about moving the
transducer. Might as well do it before I have a real problem in flight or
on take off.
Did you use "hard lines" or did you go with the flex lines and fire sleeve them
in the tunnel?
Thanks
Fred Williams
500 hrs and 4 years.
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Elevator skin |
| From: | Terry Moushon <tmoushon(at)gmail.com> |
Steve, i just finished my elevators today for the RV 10....so I am new at this.
Couple points to this. First, the elevator skin goes on top so that you have
access to four key rivets on the front spar and can buck the two rivets on the
upper skin. After attaching the rib tip assembly you should close the top skin
first because the bottom skin uses two pop rivets that don't requiring bucking.
RV 10 builders.... Short note of thanks. I posted a note a couple months ago
asking for help with a test flight. Not only did I recieve quite a few responses...
Dick Sipp and his wife Vicky stopped by on their way home to Michigan
at the end of September and gave me and my wife a wonderful flight.... I ordered
the 10 the next day. Most of my questions to date have been answered by the
great notes from Matronics as well as the great tips in the building process
found on various web sites. In my build I alumiprep, alodine and two part epoxy
paint... I installed a Ray Allen wire in the rudder and cut in an access plat
for future use.... ALL of these great ideas coming from this team...so THANK
YOU. I hope to learn more...and give back some day... Again, my sincere thanks!
My call sign changed from " builder want-to-be". It is now builder #41393.
Terry. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | rudder trim RV-10 |
Geoff's rudder trim can be adapted to other model RV's. Call Geoff for
details.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J. R. (Dick) Dial
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: rudder trim RV-10
I have a new RV-10 trim kit from Aerosports Products in the
box unopened I will sell for $195.oo, I will pay freight in USA. I built and
fly an RV6 and won this in a drawing at an RV Fly-In.
Contact: jrdial@hal-pc.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
It has a rotor.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 11, 2012, at 2:36 PM, Fred Williams wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for your excellent write up. I have a very similar set up and have occasionally
noted the fluctuations in fuel flow just as you have described. I
also, have not been able to run LOP secondary to the engine running too rough.
I don't feel that I have a "hot tunnel" either. Does anybody know if the flow
is an optical pick up or is there a rotor sensing the fuel flow?
>
> I just started my condition inspection and am seriously thinking about moving
the transducer. Might as well do it before I have a real problem in flight or
on take off.
>
> Did you use "hard lines" or did you go with the flex lines and fire sleeve them
in the tunnel?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Fred Williams
> 500 hrs and 4 years.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Bill, You are correct about the flow rate and OAT temp, however, there's
a lot of aluminum tubing, fittings, the pump and fuel cube all collecting
the heat of the tunnel and delivering it to the fuel. Without doing
elaborate measurements, the answer lies somewhere between the OAT temp and
the tunnel temp. The issue I saw was definitely correlated with reduced
fuel flow rates, as soon as I increased the flow rate from 12 to about 13
gph the issue went away.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: bill.peyton
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel
Bob,
In your calculation wouldn't you have to include the flow rate of the fuel
and the OAT and the heat absorption of the fuel. Obviously the heat
absorption would be different at various flow rates and would be at it
maximum amount at 0 GPH. This would be more indicative of the fuel temp. in
the lines during flight. While the tunnel may be at 40C the fuel will be at
a much lower temp while it is flowing and should provide a more significant
margin, assuming it is not 40C outside and the fuel has hot soaked to 40C!
I too insulated my firewall and the floor of the tunnel with fibrefrax and
fireproof black 1/2 foam on top of it. My tunnel is cool to the touch
during flight with the heat off. I have not used the heat yet and will see
how it behaves with the heat valve open. I also firesleeved the steel fuel
line out of the pump
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387544#387544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Fred, The red fuel cube has a little turbine wheel that spins on some type
of jeweled bearing, I suspect that the turbine then acts on a hall effect
sensor or an optical sensor. The new fuel line I installed from the
electric pump to the bulkhead fitting was a fire sleeved flex line.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Williams
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel
Bob,
Thanks for your excellent write up. I have a very similar set up and have
occasionally noted the fluctuations in fuel flow just as you have described.
I also, have not been able to run LOP secondary to the engine running too
rough. I don't feel that I have a "hot tunnel" either. Does anybody know
if the flow is an optical pick up or is there a rotor sensing the fuel flow?
I just started my condition inspection and am seriously thinking about
moving the transducer. Might as well do it before I have a real problem in
flight or on take off.
Did you use "hard lines" or did you go with the flex lines and fire sleeve
them in the tunnel?
Thanks
Fred Williams
500 hrs and 4 years.
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | "billz" <billz(at)roadrunner.com> |
Bob,
Thank you for the excellent analysis.
1. Bob, What did you use for insulation on the fuel lines in the tunnel??
2. Has anyone used insulation on the heat runs in the tunnel? I'm thinking this
adds a significant amount of heat (with uninsulated SCAT) when the heat is turned
on. If so, what type of insulation did you use??
FWIW, Every fuel flow sender installation I've seen in certified aircraft has had
the sensor mounted ahead of the firewall and usually between the fuel servo
and flow divider.
Great discussion.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387569#387569
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Rigging thoughts |
60 hours on the RV-10 and one long cross country. Here are some recent
tweaks that I=92ve incorporated:
- Added a .063=94 shim under the forward HS spar. This moved
the
elevators to a better trail position in cruise. I had a .040=94 shim in
for
10 hours or so. It helped but was not quite enough. Even with this
larger
shim I have more nose up trim authority than I will ever need. With
anything other than forward CG conditions however the elevators are
still
slightly trailing edge down. This calls for a larger shim but the
.063=94 is
about all I want to do for now as more may force an empennage fairing
adjustment and/or re-hanging the rudder. For those wondering, my W&B is
typical of other RV-10s.
- Right wing slightly heavy. Not so bad that aileron trim
would
not fix, but not right. After some careful measurements I found the
right
aileron inboard hinge placed the aileron slightly high (as compared to
the
outboard hinge and the left aileron). I lowered the inboard side of the
aileron .032=94 or so and this resolved the wing heavy issue.
- Ball not centered. I chased my tail on this for some time.
With
the wheel pants and gear leg fairing off the ball is dead center.
Various
tweaks on the pants and fairings either had the ball =BD out left or
right.
After several tries it is now dead center (and just finished final pant
and
fairing paint today). Some take-aways for those working this issue:
o The fairing adjustments are far more critical than the wheel pants
at
affecting the ball. Set the wheel pants as close as possible, then make
all
adjustments to the fairings after that.
o The Van=92s instructions lead you to think you can mount the wheel
pants
with the plane on the gear. I don=92t recommend this.
o You can never be too accurate setting up to check the fairing rig.
A
1/16=94 move of the fairings trailing edge equals =BC ball or so.
- Don=92t paint the pants or fairings until after you are
flying.
- Add the =93reinforcement glass=94 to the nose gear wheel pant
(there
was a recent thread on this). After mine cracked, I added two layers of
carbon fiber to the inside, ground out the crack and filled it in with
flox,
sanded then two layers of regular glass on the outside over the crack.
This
was followed by the normal =93micro-balloon and sand until you puke=94
routine.
Rigging does matter. I notice a measureable gain in top and cruise
speeds
after these tweaks. At one time while chasing the ball I had the wheel
pants way out of alignment (before I figured out the fairings are the
real
drivers). This caused and easy 5 knot loss.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Rib Tip Assembly |
| From: | Ed Kranz <ed.kranz(at)gmail.com> |
The main skin is outside of the tip rib skin. I've got a lot of pictures
showing where everything goes... inside and out here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LsXUR2H2FM1my_ggJ8WALNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Gordon Anderson wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> I believe Figure 4 page 9-15 shows the main skin on the outside, which
> worked fine for me.
>
> Gordon Anderson
> 41015 Switzerland
>
> On Nov 10, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Steve Farner wrote:
>
> I'm trying to determine whether the Rib Tip Assembly is attached over or
> under the main elevator skins. Does anyone recall which skin is supposed
> to be on top? I believe the main skin is on top, but the picture in the
> manual appears to show the rib tip skin on top.
>
> Steve Farner
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Rib Tip Assembly |
| From: | Ed Kranz <ed.kranz(at)gmail.com> |
Sorry. That link was to an individual picture. This link should take you to
the album. The elevator assembly is abut half way down.
https://picasaweb.google.com/104915858356518723094/RV102Empennage
On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Ed Kranz wrote:
> The main skin is outside of the tip rib skin. I've got a lot of pictures
> showing where everything goes... inside and out here:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LsXUR2H2FM1my_ggJ8WALNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Gordon Anderson wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I believe Figure 4 page 9-15 shows the main skin on the outside, which
>> worked fine for me.
>>
>> Gordon Anderson
>> 41015 Switzerland
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Steve Farner wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to determine whether the Rib Tip Assembly is attached over or
>> under the main elevator skins. Does anyone recall which skin is supposed
>> to be on top? I believe the main skin is on top, but the picture in the
>> manual appears to show the rib tip skin on top.
>>
>> Steve Farner
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Red Cube FWF install |
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Sean, how did you, or where did you get the fire sleeve to cover the
transducer?
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Seano wrote:
> Myron,
>
> Here is a pic of mine. 280 hours with no problems. I fireslleved mine per
> directions but I didn't follow the statement: Do not attach the transducer
> directly to the engine......
>
> Here is some notes from the installation manual.
>
>
> Fuel Flow Transducer Notes
> . NEVER blow through the transducer. Keep the yellow caps on until it is
> installed.
> . The fuel flow transducer(s) should be installed in a straight section of
> your fuel line. (6 straight inches on each side is desirable).
> . The fuel line should not drop down after exiting the transducer.
> . The wires MUST NOT come out of the bottom of transducer. Wires pointing
> up is the best .
> . When assembling fittings into the 1/4" NPT inlet and outlet ports do not
> exceed a torque value of 25 ft.-lbs.
> . Do not use Teflon tape in an aircraft fuel system. Use "Fuel Lube/Ez
> Turn Lubricant"
> . The transducer should be mounted down stream of a fuel filter.
> . Do not attach the transducer directly to the engine to avoid excessive
> vibration.
> . Do not mount the transducer near the exhaust systems or other hot engine
> components.
> . If the transducer is in the engine compartment, it should be covered in
> fire sleeve to protect it from excessive heat.
> . The transducer wires may be trimmed any desired length
> Possible Transducer Placement Locations:
> 1. Between the auxiliary electric boost pump and the engines mechanical
> fuel pump.
> 2. Between fuel injection servo and the distribution block.
> 3. Between the Engine driven pump and the Carburetor
> Note: If your engine is equipped with a fuel return line from the
> carburetor back to the fuel tank you will need to install two flow
> transducers.
> One in the feed line from the fuel pump to the carburetor and one in the
> return line from the carburetor back to the fuel tank. This applies to
> certain Continental engines and Rotax 912(ULS) and 914 engines.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 11:27 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install
>
>
>>
>> Anyone be so kind as to post some pix on their firewall forward red cube
>> installation?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
>> finishing kit in progress.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=387382#387382>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Red Cube FWF install |
Rick,
I bought mine from Aircraft Spruce. The first link is what I clicked on
and then onto the proper size, which I can't currently remember. I
would just measure a rough circumference.
The second link is a new one for me. I would have ordered this if it
was available when I installed mine.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stratofs.php?clickkey=411
8
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gbfireslvft.php?clickkey=
4118
I cut the bolt holes through the firesleeve and pushed it on then stuck
the bolts through both. I then connected the fuel lines.
As you can see I mounted mine to the engine which the instructions say
NOT to do for vibration.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Lark
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install
Sean, how did you, or where did you get the fire sleeve to cover the
transducer?
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Seano wrote:
Myron,
Here is a pic of mine. 280 hours with no problems. I fireslleved
mine per directions but I didn't follow the statement: Do not attach
the transducer directly to the engine......
Here is some notes from the installation manual.
Fuel Flow Transducer Notes
. NEVER blow through the transducer. Keep the yellow caps on until
it is installed.
. The fuel flow transducer(s) should be installed in a straight
section of your fuel line. (6 straight inches on each side is
desirable).
. The fuel line should not drop down after exiting the transducer.
. The wires MUST NOT come out of the bottom of transducer. Wires
pointing up is the best .
. When assembling fittings into the 1/4" NPT inlet and outlet ports
do not exceed a torque value of 25 ft.-lbs.
. Do not use Teflon tape in an aircraft fuel system. Use "Fuel
Lube/Ez Turn Lubricant"
. The transducer should be mounted down stream of a fuel filter.
. Do not attach the transducer directly to the engine to avoid
excessive vibration.
. Do not mount the transducer near the exhaust systems or other hot
engine components.
. If the transducer is in the engine compartment, it should be
covered in fire sleeve to protect it from excessive heat.
. The transducer wires may be trimmed any desired length
Possible Transducer Placement Locations:
1. Between the auxiliary electric boost pump and the engines
mechanical fuel pump.
2. Between fuel injection servo and the distribution block.
3. Between the Engine driven pump and the Carburetor
Note: If your engine is equipped with a fuel return line from the
carburetor back to the fuel tank you will need to install two flow
transducers.
One in the feed line from the fuel pump to the carburetor and one in
the return line from the carburetor back to the fuel tank. This applies
to
certain Continental engines and Rotax 912(ULS) and 914 engines.
----- Original Message ----- From: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Red Cube FWF install
Anyone be so kind as to post some pix on their firewall forward
red cube installation?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly
done, finishing kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387382#387382
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
My red cube is in the tunnel and has worked great for 95 hours from -10 to 105F
OAT's. I am within .5 gallons at every fuel up. I run boost pump until 1000'
agl and have taken off with pump off flowing 25.5 gph. I occasionally see fuel
pressure drop about 3-5 psi during a 115-120 kt climb to 10500-13500'. The engine
did not show any signs of roughness. If I am running cabin heat my fuel temp
is much lower and still provides plenty of margin. If I was building again
I would intall it fwf, but will not change it as long as it is working properly.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
12/01/2011
TT= 95
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387586#387586
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides
for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List.
It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
performance possible for List services such as the Archive Search Engine,
List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for the over 22 years of on-line
archive data always available for instant search and access. And, it offsets
the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications
that power these List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums,
and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses.
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables all these aspects of Matronics List
services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of
the best investments you can make in your Sport!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying to NYC |
| From: | "billz" <billz(at)roadrunner.com> |
You might look into KHPN (White Plains, NY). Panorama Aviation is good place to park. Give them a call and they can give you the details. The commuter train is not far from the airport and an easy (cheap) way to get into the city. There website is http://www.flypfs.com/#
The other option is TEB, but will be more expensive.
Enjoy your trip!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387676#387676
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to NYC |
I used Panorama at White Plains and recommend them.
The only problem was taxi for departure and ground told me to "follow the
Citation". As these are a dime a dozen at this place I had to ask "which
one?".
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of billz
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:41 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flying to NYC
You might look into KHPN (White Plains, NY). Panorama Aviation is good
place to park. Give them a call and they can give you the details. The
commuter train is not far from the airport and an easy (cheap) way to get
into the city. There website is http://www.flypfs.com/#
The other option is TEB, but will be more expensive.
Enjoy your trip!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387676#387676
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Bill, I insulated the new line between the electric pump and firewall with
standard fire sleeve. The rest of the original lines remain un-insulated.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: billz
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel
Bob,
Thank you for the excellent analysis.
1. Bob, What did you use for insulation on the fuel lines in the tunnel??
2. Has anyone used insulation on the heat runs in the tunnel? I'm thinking
this adds a significant amount of heat (with uninsulated SCAT) when the heat
is turned on. If so, what type of insulation did you use??
FWIW, Every fuel flow sender installation I've seen in certified aircraft
has had the sensor mounted ahead of the firewall and usually between the
fuel servo and flow divider.
Great discussion.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387569#387569
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rigging thoughts |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I can confirm that moving the aileron vertical height a small amount can make a
huge difference. In my case it was left wing heavy, and I lowered the outboard
bracket, about 1/32 to 1/16". I did it by slotting the holes in the mounting
bracket. Vans sells un-drilled mounting brackets if you don't like the idea of
leaving it slotted. (The brackets are for the -7, but can be made to work on
the -10). I haven't yet decided what my permanent fix will be.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387703#387703
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
JR
I am probably interested but I am away from home and I will have to confirm a
t my shop.
I will contact you direct on Tuesday
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 11/11/2012, =C3-s 17:08, "J. R. (Dick) Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org> es
creveu:
>
> I have a new RV-10 trim kit from Aerosports Products in th
e box unopened I will sell for $195.oo, I will pay freight in USA. I built a
nd fly an RV6 and won this in a drawing at an RV Fly-In.
> Contact: jrdial@hal-pc.org
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rudder trim RV-10 |
It has been sold.
Thanks,
Dick
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rudder trim RV-10
JR
I am probably interested but I am away from home and I will have to
confirm at my shop.
I will contact you direct on Tuesday
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 11/11/2012, =C3-s 17:08, "J. R. (Dick) Dial"
<jrdial@hal-pc.org> escreveu:
I have a new RV-10 trim kit from Aerosports Products in
the box unopened I will sell for $195.oo, I will pay freight in USA. I
built and fly an RV6 and won this in a drawing at an RV Fly-In.
Contact: jrdial@hal-pc.org
=========
ctric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
uilthelp.com
matronics.com/contribution
=========
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=========
cs.com
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying to NYC |
| From: | David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com> |
We flew into KLDJ this past Spring. It's close, but the FBO is less than accommodating
and seems they could care less about GA aircraft. Seems like mostly
chopper traffic out of there. Landed with 11 gallons on board and figured I'd
fuel up on departure. Got to the airport Saturday morning, had to hunt down
and employee and they had only 14 gal. of 100LL on the field to sell me. Had
to make another stop on my way back to WI. I will not go in there again.
Dave Leikam
On Nov 12, 2012, at 8:33 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> I used Panorama at White Plains and recommend them.
>
> The only problem was taxi for departure and ground told me to "follow the
> Citation". As these are a dime a dozen at this place I had to ask "which
> one?".
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of billz
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:41 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flying to NYC
>
>
> You might look into KHPN (White Plains, NY). Panorama Aviation is good
> place to park. Give them a call and they can give you the details. The
> commuter train is not far from the airport and an easy (cheap) way to get
> into the city. There website is http://www.flypfs.com/#
>
> The other option is TEB, but will be more expensive.
>
> Enjoy your trip!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387676#387676
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to NYC |
Experiences like that is good written out as feedback on Airnav.com I wrote
one in particular and the FBO called me the next day to know what happened
in detail and said it wouldn't happen again. They also gave me a big
discount on 100LL the next time I stopped in. Positive feedback is a must
too. I wrote one two weeks ago about Signature in MSY and Bergstrom at PSC
and they both appreciated it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Leikam" <arplnplt(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Flying to NYC
>
> We flew into KLDJ this past Spring. It's close, but the FBO is less than
> accommodating and seems they could care less about GA aircraft. Seems
> like mostly chopper traffic out of there. Landed with 11 gallons on board
> and figured I'd fuel up on departure. Got to the airport Saturday
> morning, had to hunt down and employee and they had only 14 gal. of 100LL
> on the field to sell me. Had to make another stop on my way back to WI.
> I will not go in there again.
>
> Dave Leikam
>
> On Nov 12, 2012, at 8:33 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I used Panorama at White Plains and recommend them.
>>
>> The only problem was taxi for departure and ground told me to "follow the
>> Citation". As these are a dime a dozen at this place I had to ask "which
>> one?".
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of billz
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:41 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flying to NYC
>>
>>
>> You might look into KHPN (White Plains, NY). Panorama Aviation is good
>> place to park. Give them a call and they can give you the details. The
>> commuter train is not far from the airport and an easy (cheap) way to get
>> into the city. There website is http://www.flypfs.com/#
>>
>> The other option is TEB, but will be more expensive.
>>
>> Enjoy your trip!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387676#387676
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in |
December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Design Louis Vuitton iPhone 5 Case |
| From: | "sunlynn" <quanquanye(at)yahoo.com> |
I love Louis Vuitton iPhone 5 Case (http://www.asinecases.com/Designer-iPhone-5-Cases/Louis-Vuitton-iPhone-5-Case-asinecases3-307.html) and all LV products. They are stylish, classic and not too expensive most people can afford it. I have to fill in the affordable brands and lists and the other details. Another important item in the list is the Chanel iPhone 5 Case (http://www.asinecases.com/Designer-iPhone-5-Cases/Chanel-iPhone-5-Case-asinecases3-308.html).
I do buy man different kinds of Designer iPhone 5 Cases (http://www.asinecases.com/Designer-iPhone-5-Cases-asinecases1-15.html) and I spend a lot of money on them yet it is still great to buy these products.
Their Designer iPhone 4 Cases (http://www.asinecases.com/Designer-iPhone-4-Cases-asinecases1-11.html) is still available. Check them out as well if you still keep your iPhone 4 or iPHone 4S
--------
http://www.asinecases.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387907#387907
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billy Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Electric aileron trim |
Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings
before I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to
be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?
Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this
something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron
trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a
different one. Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim"
system?
Thanks,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
I thought the safety trim just avoided runaway Ray allen servo issues.
Not a replacement but =9Cin addition=9D to. If you have a
Vertical Power system, it has it built in BTW.
From: Billy Britton
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Electric aileron trim
Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings
before I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to
be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?
Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this
something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron
trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a
different one. Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim"
system?
Thanks,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Electric aileron trim |
Correct the Safety Trim module is and additional item added to your trim co
ntrol system. Here is the link to the unit:
http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim-Page.htm
If you have ever tried to fly an RV substantially out of trim it will scare
you enough to install some system to reverse the out of trim situation so
you can make it safely down. I have installed on in my 6A, 10 & 8A.
Robin
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com] on behalf of Pascal [rv10flyer(at)live.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Electric aileron trim
I thought the safety trim just avoided runaway Ray allen servo issues. Not
a replacement but =93in addition=94 to. If you have a Vertical Power system
, it has it built in BTW.
From: Billy Britton<mailto:william(at)gbta.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Electric aileron trim
Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings befo
re I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to be done
now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged? Also, I read on
Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this something completely
different than the standard vans electric aileron trim kit or is it simply
changing out the ray allen servo for a different one. Anyone have info whe
re to research the "safety trim" system?
Thanks,
Bill
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control
box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button
push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a
stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick
trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch
on the right yoke.)
This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded
aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their
aileron trim.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I cannot answer your original question about whether it is better to hook up the
aileron trim now or later, as I don't have it. I think you can go either way,
I just don't know what's easiest.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387992#387992
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but I also have
a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The co-pilots stick functions
(Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all inactive unless the panel switch arms
the co-pilot controls.
I did the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the few
times they may be desired.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]
on behalf of Bob Turner [bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control
box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button
push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a
stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick
trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch
on the right yoke.)
This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded
aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their
aileron trim.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
Safety Trim is used as a replacement for relays and such. I have the trim top
hat on the control stick going to the Safety Trim box, then from the box to the
aileron and elevator trim servos.
On the "co-pilot messing with the trim top hat on his/her stick" problem, I added
a Trim/Flap control switch on the panel. It has a Pilot and Co-Pilot position.
This way the co-pilot cannot inadvertently operate the trim or flap switches
on co-pilot stick unless selected. It has a side benefit of isolating the
pilot stick switches if one fails and allowing trim/flap operation from the
other stick as a backup.
Carl
On Nov 15, 2012, at 3:29 PM, "Bob Turner" wrote:
>
> "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control
box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one
button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to
a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right
stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch
on the right yoke.)
> This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring
loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering
their aileron trim.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
You would probably be better off to install the trim now while
it's easy to access...even in a wing cradle. You could do it
later, but as long as you do it per-plans on the timing, you
won't go wrong. The important part is to get the measurements
down so that the spring preload isn't high in either direction,
but with the measurements they give, you should be able to do
that easily.
The Safety Trim just replaces the Ray Allen relays.
It makes it a ton easier to wire up your hat switches!
Tim
On 11/15/2012 1:58 PM, Billy Britton wrote:
> Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings
> before I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to
> be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?
> Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this
> something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron
> trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a
> different one. Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim" system?
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
I did the same. The one single switch basically disables the
ground on the co-pilot side, so one panel switch can remove
all control from the co-pilot.
Tim
On 11/15/2012 2:40 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but
> I also have a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The
> co-pilots stick functions (Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all
> inactive unless the panel switch arms the co-pilot controls. I did
> the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the
> few times they may be desired.
>
> Robin ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Bob Turner
> [bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron
> trim
>
>
>
> "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an
> electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more
> than 3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim
> situation. This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have
> reported a passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For
> this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch on the right
> yoke.) This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger
> than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the
> Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.
>
> -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Slight thread drift.....I really like the Trio pro autopilot with auto trim for
making fine adjustments to trim manually, when hand flying. Trim speed is programable,
slower trim speed with higher airspeed. Between the autopilot trim function,
high on center stack, and the Ray Allan rocker, on the panel to the right
of the radios, I'm comfortable flying right seat without a right stick top
hat?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388000#388000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
Some details and comments on Safety-trim: Safety-Trim provides two speed
control of the trim surfaces, with 3 second runaway prevention. It
eliminates the need for any relay decks. As such, it makes wiring of the
trim systems very easy, we've seen most customers choose our two axis
controller (pitch and roll trim), thereby greatly simplifying the wiring,
instead of using relays for the roll axis and a single axis Safety-Trim for
pitch. Lastly the VP trim system is not exactly the same as Safety-Trim.
If you drive the system for more than 3 seconds with Safety-trim it stops
the servos from run-away, if you need to drive more than 3 seconds worth of
trim, just let up on the switch and press again for more trim. We patented
this feature. The VP system must utilize a menu or another method of
resetting the time limit to get more than 3 second limit. (We believe this
may be quite important on a go-around depending on your aircraft's
particular trim requirements)
All the details and our instruction sheet can be found on www.tcwtech.com
Lastly, regarding installation of the aileron trim servo after the build.
We did it without issue. The only pain is that you must remove the bolts
thru the rod ends on the aileron push tube so you can drill the tube in the
proper location for the spring attach brackets. Its also way more fun
working on your back, laying on the cold hangar floor, reaching up thru the
access hole. Seriously though, it certainly is not a difficult
retrofit, I'd much rather do this than move the fuel flow transducer out
of the tunnel!
Thanks,
Bob Newman
RV-10
N541RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Bob,
I haven't thought this thru entirely, but I notice you have one other thing which
is non-stock: filters at the wing root. Is it possible they are introducing
an extra pressure drop (more than the standard filter in the tunnel) and this
makes the problem at the cube in the tunnel worse?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388009#388009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Bob, Good question. In my set-up I only have a filter in each wing root,
no filter in the tunnel. The filter in the wing root has the same mesh
size and pressure drop vs. flow values as the standard filter used with the
AFP filter/pump assembly. So I think that's not an issue.
Bob Newman
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Turner
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel
Bob,
I haven't thought this thru entirely, but I notice you have one other thing
which is non-stock: filters at the wing root. Is it possible they are
introducing an extra pressure drop (more than the standard filter in the
tunnel) and this makes the problem at the cube in the tunnel worse?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388009#388009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Who is Matt Dralle & What Are The Lists? |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists anyway? I've been working
in the Information Technology industry for over 28 years, primarily in computer
networking design and implementation and more recently as an embedded software
engineer. I have also done a fair amount of work in web design and development.
I started the Matronics Email Lists way back in 1990 shortly after I started building
my RV-4 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since
that time, I have added many other types of aircraft related Lists to the line
up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives
and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers locally.
Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a bonded dual T1 commercial-grade business Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers include a dual quad-core Linux server for List web services
with 24GB of memory, a quad -core Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another standalone Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with multi-terra byts of online storage. This entire system
is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply systems
(UPS) that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage!
Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these
systems. On the average, the elctric bill is in the neighborhood of $7000-$8000/yr
and the newly upgraded dual-T1 Internet connection runs roughly $6000/yr.
A while back, I upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new
power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the
Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists and followed that upgrade up with
a second rack upgrade to house the MONSTER web system that didn't quite fit
into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center prior
to the addition of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've mentioned many times
before, I don't use commercial advertisments to support any of these systems.
It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you...
and you... and YOU!
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Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | "Co-Pilot Grip activation" switch (was Electric aileron |
trim)
Robin
That's a good idea, that I'm going to copy, so would you be so kind to post
or send me the electric schematic you adopted to install that "Activate
Co-Pilot's Grip" switch.
Thanks
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Novembro de 2012 20:41
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but I also
have a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The co-pilots stick
functions (Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all inactive unless the
panel switch arms the co-pilot controls.
I did the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the
few times they may be desired.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Bob Turner
[bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic
control box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at
one button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be
due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on
the right stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch
trim switch on the right yoke.) This is more critical for pitch trim, which
is much stronger than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone
who has the Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Pilot / Co-pilot control switch (was Electric aileron trim) |
Carl
It seems you have a similar solution as Robin's, but it can be different, so
would you post or send me your electric schematic on this "Pilot / Co-pilot
control switch" you installed.
Thanks
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Novembro de 2012 20:50
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
-->
Safety Trim is used as a replacement for relays and such. I have the trim
top hat on the control stick going to the Safety Trim box, then from the box
to the aileron and elevator trim servos.
On the "co-pilot messing with the trim top hat on his/her stick" problem, I
added a Trim/Flap control switch on the panel. It has a Pilot and Co-Pilot
position. This way the co-pilot cannot inadvertently operate the trim or
flap switches on co-pilot stick unless selected. It has a side benefit of
isolating the pilot stick switches if one fails and allowing trim/flap
operation from the other stick as a backup.
Carl
On Nov 15, 2012, at 3:29 PM, "Bob Turner" wrote:
>
> "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an
> electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more than
3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation.
This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a
passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted
not to install a pitch trim switch on the right yoke.) This is more critical
for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded aileron trim.
I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Pilot / Co-pilot control switch (was Electric aileron |
trim)
Assuming you are using something like the Infinity Grip, there is a common
wire for the trim top hat switch. Following the Safety Trim wiring
instructions you connect this common wire to the safety trim. To add the
Pilot/Co-Pilot selector switch you insert this (DPDT) switch between the
pilot and co-pilot common wires and the Safety trim. The other four wires
from each top hat switch all go to the Safety Trim - not through any switch.
I did the standard (momentary) on-off-on toggle switch on the Infinity Grip
to operate the standard Van's flap actuator. This toggle switch also as a
common wire. Use the other half of the DPDT Pilot/Co-Pilot to switch the
common wire connection between the pilot and co-pilot.
For other pilot/co-pilot switch configurations:
PPT - this is controlled via the audio panel as to what radio the pilot or
co-pilot controls.
Flip/Flop - I wired the pilot stick to control Comm #1, co-pilot controls
Comm #2. This is very limited value for me to add another switch to change
the pilot flip/flop between the radios. If the pilot needs to flip/flop
comm. #2 then use the button on the radio.
AP disconnect. Both sticks are wired to disconnect the AP. Considering the
Dynon EFIS as an auditable "autopilot disconnected" alert, I will always
know if the co-pilot hit the button.
I used miniature locking toggle switches in the 8A and the 10 for all but
heavy current applications (and I used switch breakers for those - such as
pitot heat and landing lights). They have performed well. Here is an
example of the DPDT on-off-on locking switch:
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70128639
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 6:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pilot / Co-pilot control switch (was Electric
aileron trim)
Carl
It seems you have a similar solution as Robin's, but it can be different, so
would you post or send me your electric schematic on this "Pilot / Co-pilot
control switch" you installed.
Thanks
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Novembro de 2012 20:50
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
-->
Safety Trim is used as a replacement for relays and such. I have the trim
top hat on the control stick going to the Safety Trim box, then from the box
to the aileron and elevator trim servos.
On the "co-pilot messing with the trim top hat on his/her stick" problem, I
added a Trim/Flap control switch on the panel. It has a Pilot and Co-Pilot
position. This way the co-pilot cannot inadvertently operate the trim or
flap switches on co-pilot stick unless selected. It has a side benefit of
isolating the pilot stick switches if one fails and allowing trim/flap
operation from the other stick as a backup.
Carl
On Nov 15, 2012, at 3:29 PM, "Bob Turner" wrote:
>
> "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an
> electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more
> than
3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation.
This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a
passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted
not to install a pitch trim switch on the right yoke.) This is more critical
for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded aileron trim.
I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
| From: | "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
I just hooked up my aileron trim springs to the left wing pushrod. I wouldn't drill
holes until final pushrod alignment when the wings are on as it's possible
that things won't line up the same as when the wings are in the cradles. I did,
however, pre-wire and mount the servo on the wing access panel long ago.
Cheers,
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388117#388117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
agree. Put the alierons on and get the angles up and down completed before
doing the trim for them.
-----Original Message-----
From: hotwheels
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 7:30 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
I just hooked up my aileron trim springs to the left wing pushrod. I
wouldn't drill holes until final pushrod alignment when the wings are on as
it's possible that things won't line up the same as when the wings are in
the cradles. I did, however, pre-wire and mount the servo on the wing access
panel long ago.
Cheers,
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388117#388117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | "Co-Pilot Grip activation" switch (was Electric aileron |
trim)
Carlos,
It's a nice way to go but unfortunately I have no schematics which I know will
be shocking for some on this list to believe. :-) But as Tim said " The one single
switch basically disables the ground on the co-pilot side, so one panel switch
can remove all control from the co-pilot." Simple solution. BTW on my 8A
I even placed the Co-Pilots arm switch under a safety switch cover. Up is arms,
down is disarmed.
Good luck,
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: "Co-Pilot Grip activation" switch (was Electric aileron
trim)
Robin
That's a good idea, that I'm going to copy, so would you be so kind to post or
send me the electric schematic you adopted to install that "Activate Co-Pilot's
Grip" switch.
Thanks
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Novembro de 2012 20:41
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but I also have
a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The co-pilots stick functions
(Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all inactive unless the panel switch arms
the co-pilot controls.
I did the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the few
times they may be desired.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Bob Turner [bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control
box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button
push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a
stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick
trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch
on the right yoke.) This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger
than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety
Trim box powering their aileron trim.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | "Co-Pilot Grip activation" switch (was Electric aileron |
trim)
Thanks Robin
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: sexta-feira, 16 de Novembro de 2012 17:28
Subject: RE: RV10-List: "Co-Pilot Grip activation" switch (was Electric
aileron trim)
Carlos,
It's a nice way to go but unfortunately I have no schematics which I know
will be shocking for some on this list to believe. :-) But as Tim said " The
one single switch basically disables the ground on the co-pilot side, so one
panel switch can remove all control from the co-pilot." Simple solution. BTW
on my 8A I even placed the Co-Pilots arm switch under a safety switch cover.
Up is arms, down is disarmed.
Good luck,
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: "Co-Pilot Grip activation" switch (was Electric
aileron trim)
Robin
That's a good idea, that I'm going to copy, so would you be so kind to post
or send me the electric schematic you adopted to install that "Activate
Co-Pilot's Grip" switch.
Thanks
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Novembro de 2012 20:41
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but I also
have a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The co-pilots stick
functions (Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all inactive unless the
panel switch arms the co-pilot controls.
I did the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the
few times they may be desired.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Bob Turner
[bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic
control box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at
one button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be
due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on
the right stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch
trim switch on the right yoke.) This is more critical for pitch trim, which
is much stronger than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone
who has the Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Pilot / Co-pilot control switch (was Electric aileron |
trim)
Thanks Carl
I will study your description and adapt it to my solution.
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: sexta-feira, 16 de Novembro de 2012 14:35
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pilot / Co-pilot control switch (was Electric
aileron trim)
-->
Assuming you are using something like the Infinity Grip, there is a common
wire for the trim top hat switch. Following the Safety Trim wiring
instructions you connect this common wire to the safety trim. To add the
Pilot/Co-Pilot selector switch you insert this (DPDT) switch between the
pilot and co-pilot common wires and the Safety trim. The other four wires
from each top hat switch all go to the Safety Trim - not through any switch.
I did the standard (momentary) on-off-on toggle switch on the Infinity Grip
to operate the standard Van's flap actuator. This toggle switch also as a
common wire. Use the other half of the DPDT Pilot/Co-Pilot to switch the
common wire connection between the pilot and co-pilot.
For other pilot/co-pilot switch configurations:
PPT - this is controlled via the audio panel as to what radio the pilot or
co-pilot controls.
Flip/Flop - I wired the pilot stick to control Comm #1, co-pilot controls
Comm #2. This is very limited value for me to add another switch to change
the pilot flip/flop between the radios. If the pilot needs to flip/flop
comm. #2 then use the button on the radio.
AP disconnect. Both sticks are wired to disconnect the AP. Considering the
Dynon EFIS as an auditable "autopilot disconnected" alert, I will always
know if the co-pilot hit the button.
I used miniature locking toggle switches in the 8A and the 10 for all but
heavy current applications (and I used switch breakers for those - such as
pitot heat and landing lights). They have performed well. Here is an
example of the DPDT on-off-on locking switch:
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70128639
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 6:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pilot / Co-pilot control switch (was Electric
aileron trim)
Carl
It seems you have a similar solution as Robin's, but it can be different, so
would you post or send me your electric schematic on this "Pilot / Co-pilot
control switch" you installed.
Thanks
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Novembro de 2012 20:50
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
-->
Safety Trim is used as a replacement for relays and such. I have the trim
top hat on the control stick going to the Safety Trim box, then from the box
to the aileron and elevator trim servos.
On the "co-pilot messing with the trim top hat on his/her stick" problem, I
added a Trim/Flap control switch on the panel. It has a Pilot and Co-Pilot
position. This way the co-pilot cannot inadvertently operate the trim or
flap switches on co-pilot stick unless selected. It has a side benefit of
isolating the pilot stick switches if one fails and allowing trim/flap
operation from the other stick as a backup.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Beebe <richard.beebe(at)yale.edu> |
The EAA Board had its Fall meeting yesterday. Among the items discussed,
we agreed on the next 5 years of the site development plan and
authorized money for this coming year which will build another rest room
facility near Theater in the Woods and Vintage cafe, enhance the entry
gates and start work on a new Homebuilt Village. We're going to tear
down the decrepit hangers across from the homebuilt headquarters (where
the "Federal Pavilion" and "Innovation" hangers are), remove all the
pavement, plant grass and that whole area will be where the homebuilt
exhibitors are. Homebuilt Village won't be done for this coming year but
should be for the following.
We also voted to not allow chalets on the flight line. The Aviators Club
will remain as it's proven very popular with the members.
We had a lively discussion about Sport Aviation and agreed it needs more
homebuilt content. The Homebuilt Council had a 90 minute one-on-one with
Mac about it.
There is a sub-committee working on a bunch of bylaw rewording, mostly
because the current bylaws are out of date, but also to include some
governance changes. Revamping the proxy system is also still in the
works. We agreed to set the size of the Board at 21 Class I (elected by
the members) Director--3 groups of 7 who get elected for a 3 year term.
There are 9 Class II Directors--heads of the divisions (Warbirds,
Vintage, Homebuilt Council, etc.) and the EAA President. And up to 11
Class III Directors, appointed by the Board for a 1 year term. The Bylaw
changes will be voted on at the next Annual Meeting at AirVenture.
The issue of member access to Board minutes is on the table and being
worked on. When they're available I'll let you know. There is a project
to consolidate and simplify EAA's 23(!) different web sites.
With all the staff changes, the museum has gotten short shrift of the
past couple years and that will be an area of renewed focus. A
sub-committee will be putting together a plan for our Spring meeting.
Frank Christensen's Christen Eagle II, serial number 1 is now hanging in
a place of honor in the aerobatics area of the museum. It's a very nice
display.
Finally, Jack Pelton continues to volunteer his time to guide the
organization until we can hire a new president. That process hasn't
started yet, but will shortly.
--Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Farner <steve.farner(at)bellevue.edu> |
| Subject: | Elevator Tip Rib Question |
Hi All- I'm trying to attach the Tip Rib assembly to the elevators, and can
not tell what the "order" should be of the parts....I believe the very top
is the main skin, followed by the Tip Rib skin.
What I'm unsure about are the flanges of the E-903 Rib and the E-1002 Spar.
In the attached picture, the E-903 flanges are on the outside of the E-10
02 spar flanges, but then the main skin is not quite tight between the 1002
spar and main skin. It also looks like this is stressing the E-1002 flange
as it pushes it down a bit.
The other option is for the E-1002 flange to be on the outside, but that cr
eates a tiny gap between the E-903 flange and the E913 Rib Tip skin. So,
nothing looks quite right, and I'm wondering what I'm missing.
I'm sure this is something basic, but I've stared at it long enough! Thank
you,\
Steve Farner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
On the front corners of the bottom of the oil pan are two threaded bolt holes.
I've noticed that several have run some angle stock along the front edge using
those holes.
Can anyone report what the faster/thread size is for those holes?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. Finishing kit and
FWF kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388190#388190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Tip Rib Question |
| From: | Ed Kranz <ed.kranz(at)gmail.com> |
I put the rib flanges inside the spar flanges:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sgspHys2LPDJPdi22WBl1NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OrKcmLgostpF9xddmht4dNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RPF0hrgtZngylLNIJb17S9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Steve Farner wrote:
> Hi All- I'm trying to attach the Tip Rib assembly to the elevators, and
> cannot tell what the "order" should be of the parts....I believe the very
> top is the main skin, followed by the Tip Rib skin.
>
> What I'm unsure about are the flanges of the E-903 Rib and the E-1002
> Spar. In the attached picture, the E-903 flanges are on the outside of the
> E-1002 spar flanges, but then the main skin is not quite tight between the
> 1002 spar and main skin. It also looks like this is stressing the E-1002
> flange as it pushes it down a bit.
>
> The other option is for the E-1002 flange to be on the outside, but that
> creates a tiny gap between the E-903 flange and the E913 Rib Tip skin.
> So, nothing looks quite right, and I'm wondering what I'm missing.
>
> I'm sure this is something basic, but I've stared at it long enough!
> Thank you,\
>
> Steve Farner
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fastener help |
October 28, 2012 - November 19, 2012
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-jb