RV10-Archive.digest.vol-jp
December 06, 2013 - February 03, 2014
Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
Linn
On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> A few thoughts.
> I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set up requires
one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch fails the
flap motor will run continuously.
> If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the switch
in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are operational
choices to be made, so this is not too different from just putting in a dedicated
trim speed switch.
> I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using just lower
voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would stall. Since
you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks more you could
put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as slow as you
like.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Flap speed is not a problem. Elevator trim speed is definitely a
problem in cruise,
and I'd call it critical for safe operation that the speed be reduced
above about
110kts.
Tim
On 12/6/2013 11:09 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth
> all this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>>
>> A few thoughts.
>> I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your
>> set up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit
>> switch fails the flap motor will run continuously.
>> If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put
>> the switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is,
>> there are operational choices to be made, so this is not too
>> different from just putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
>> I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
>> just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim
>> motor would stall. Since you've already got some electronics there,
>> for just a few bucks more you could put in a pulse width modulation
>> system and adjust it to go as slow as you like.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I think you mis-read, this post is about pitch trim motor speed, not flap speeds.
One poster has tied a change in trim speed to his flap position, others are
using a speed sensitive device (safe trim).
Yes, the trim speed as it comes from Vans is about right for takeoff and landing
but too fast for cruise.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414984#414984
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have 'bu
mped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the wa
y it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane o
perates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations betwe
en individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri=2C 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
>
> Since I'm not there yet=2C is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM=2C Bob Turner wrote:
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position=2C but your s
et up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is=2C there are o
perational choices to be made=2C so this is not too different from just put
ting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like=2C using
just lower voltages=2C without using voltages so low that the trim motor wo
uld stall. Since you've already got some electronics there=2C for just a fe
w bucks more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it
to go as slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Thanks Bob, getting old sucks!!!
So, to continue on with the thread, why not install a PW control as you
suggested or run the trim off 6V?
Linn
On 12/6/2013 12:25 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> I think you mis-read, this post is about pitch trim motor speed, not flap speeds.
One poster has tied a change in trim speed to his flap position, others are
using a speed sensitive device (safe trim).
> Yes, the trim speed as it comes from Vans is about right for takeoff and landing
but too fast for cruise.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414984#414984
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I have not had a problem. I did put in the safety trim system so the most I
can do is 3 seconds at a time. I think 3 seconds at cruse could lead to a
little bit of challenge, but not impossible to handle.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have
'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the
way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane
operates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations
between individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set
up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimVillani" <Jim(at)JimVillani.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I use to bump my hat also with limited control.
With the speed reduction in cruse position your adjustment is so fine it is
almost like an altitude hold.
A 30% reduction in speed really makes a difference in feathering the trim.
Jim Villani
Kit# 41084
Jim(at)JimVillani.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have
'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the
way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane
operates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations
between individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com <mailto:flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
>
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set
up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> >
> >
>
>
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Danny,
This isn't an issue of how easy it is to trim, this is an issue of safety.
Yes, bumping it for a fraction of a second will indeed make it trim
reasonably
slow and you can indeed use it that way.
The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the switch.
Even as early as my flyoff period, I had a clipboard hit the trim hat,
and within a couple seconds I was in a hard nose-up climb. I did some
testing
later after adding safety trim to see just how bad it gets, and really
if you
have anything (ipad, book, checklist, chart, person) lay on that switch
for a
full second or more, it gets scary and for much longer than a second you
could get close to having g-rating problems perhaps. So best to just
do speed reduction for sure. The side benefit is that you can then even
have MORE fine control over trim, because that same bump you use now
is reduced to maybe 1/8th what it is.
Tim
On 12/6/2013 11:42 AM, Danny Riggs wrote:
> I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just
> have 'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least
> that's the way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to
> see how your plane operates and then make changes as needed. There may
> be some variations between individual systems and or operator desires.
>
> > Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> > From: flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
> >
> >
> > Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> > this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> > Linn
> >
> > On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> > >
> > > A few thoughts.
> > > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but
> your set up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap
> limit switch fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put
> the switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is,
> there are operational choices to be made, so this is not too different
> from just putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like,
> using just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim
> motor would stall. Since you've already got some electronics there,
> for just a few bucks more you could put in a pulse width modulation
> system and adjust it to go as slow as you like.
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Bob Turner
> > > RV-10 QB
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimVillani" <Jim(at)JimVillani.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I concur 100%.
That is what drove me to slow it down, a sudden bump and you are in another
world.
Jim Villani
Kit# 41084
Jim(at)JimVillani.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
Danny,
This isn't an issue of how easy it is to trim, this is an issue of safety.
Yes, bumping it for a fraction of a second will indeed make it trim
reasonably
slow and you can indeed use it that way.
The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the switch.
Even as early as my flyoff period, I had a clipboard hit the trim hat,
and within a couple seconds I was in a hard nose-up climb. I did some
testing
later after adding safety trim to see just how bad it gets, and really if
you
have anything (ipad, book, checklist, chart, person) lay on that switch for
a
full second or more, it gets scary and for much longer than a second you
could get close to having g-rating problems perhaps. So best to just
do speed reduction for sure. The side benefit is that you can then even
have MORE fine control over trim, because that same bump you use now
is reduced to maybe 1/8th what it is.
Tim
On 12/6/2013 11:42 AM, Danny Riggs wrote:
I've not found the trim speed to be that much of a problem. I just have
'bumped' the hat switch in the direction it needs trim. At least that's the
way it works on the -10 I've flown. My suggestion is to see how your plane
operates and then make changes as needed. There may be some variations
between individual systems and or operator desires.
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:09:57 -0500
> From: flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com <mailto:flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
>
> Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all
> this trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
> Linn
>
> On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> > I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set
up requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch
fails the flap motor will run continuously.
> > If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> > I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using
just lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I have the flap controller install just as Van's provides. Works just fine.
Flap position indication is a simple look out the window.
I have the two speed safety trim controller and I recommend it. After 10
years of flying an 8A with just the single speed elevator & aileron trim I
am used to not having the slow trim speed option - so I rarely use it in the
RV-10.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
Since I'm not there yet, is the flap speed really a 'problem' worth all this
trouble? Is the flap position 'critical' for safe operation?
Linn
On 12/5/2013 2:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> A few thoughts.
> I like to cruise with the flap switch in the off position, but your set up
requires one to leave it in the up position. If the flap limit switch fails
the flap motor will run continuously.
> If one desires to take off with no flaps (-3 reflex) he has to put the
switch in the off position - opposite of cruise. My point is, there are
operational choices to be made, so this is not too different from just
putting in a dedicated trim speed switch.
> I found it difficult to slow the trim as much as I would like, using just
lower voltages, without using voltages so low that the trim motor would
stall. Since you've already got some electronics there, for just a few bucks
more you could put in a pulse width modulation system and adjust it to go as
slow as you like.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414938#414938
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the
switch.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> [b]
Because of this I did not put a top hat on the right side (there is a panel rocker
switch for when I fly from the right seat).
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415016#415016
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I wired both stick in parallel ..... with a switch in the co-pilot
ground to disable that stick.
All the other buttons on the co-pilot side can cause consternation to
the pilot!!!!
Linn
On 12/6/2013 6:03 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
> The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the
switch.
>
> Tim
> Because of this I did not put a top hat on the right side (there is a panel
rocker switch for when I fly from the right seat).
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415016#415016
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Yep - I did the same except the switch on the panel controls the common
ground such that the pilot or co-pilot trim top hat and flaps work. This
way if the pilot stick switch breaks (as on sticks shut) moving the panel
toggle switch to the co-pilot position isolates the fault as well as
restores trim/flap control buy using the co-pilot grip switches.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
I wired both stick in parallel ..... with a switch in the co-pilot ground to
disable that stick.
All the other buttons on the co-pilot side can cause consternation to the
pilot!!!!
Linn
On 12/6/2013 6:03 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
> The issue of safety is what happens when you accidently hit the
switch.
>
> Tim
> Because of this I did not put a top hat on the right side (there is a
panel rocker switch for when I fly from the right seat).
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415016#415016
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
I like that idea! Simple switch change. Thanks.
Linn
On 12/6/2013 8:28 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Yep - I did the same except the switch on the panel controls the common
> ground such that the pilot or co-pilot trim top hat and flaps work. This
> way if the pilot stick switch breaks (as on sticks shut) moving the panel
> toggle switch to the co-pilot position isolates the fault as well as
> restores trim/flap control buy using the co-pilot grip switches.
>
> Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Anyone have experience with the electric rudder trim kit that is available for
the RV10? Is rudder trim important in the 10?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415035#415035
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
I have rudder trim in my -10, and like it. That said, I consider it a nice to have
feature, not something essential.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415036#415036
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
Same here.................
Rene'
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 8:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
I have rudder trim in my -10, and like it. That said, I consider it a nice
to have feature, not something essential.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415036#415036
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
I have a tab on the rudder, ball is pretty much centered in cruise most of
the time. You will need something more than nothing.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: bob88
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 7:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
Anyone have experience with the electric rudder trim kit that is available
for the RV10? Is rudder trim important in the 10?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415035#415035
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
I've seen rudder trim tabs hacked out of the rudder, riveted bendable
tabs, big wedges, small wedges ...... but nobody could tell me 'how much
tab do you need?'. So I decided to use small RC servos to implement my
aileron and rudder trim which will drive a hinge segment, controllable
from the stick. I'll probably leave the installation of the hinges
'till after phase 1.
Linn
On 12/6/2013 11:44 PM, Pascal wrote:
>
> I have a tab on the rudder, ball is pretty much centered in cruise
> most of the time. You will need something more than nothing.
> Pascal
>
> -----Original Message----- From: bob88
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 7:21 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
>
>
> Anyone have experience with the electric rudder trim kit that is
> available for the RV10? Is rudder trim important in the 10?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415035#415035
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
My aileron trim consists of switching the fuel selector to to heavy side. Works
every time and no runaway issues.
N312F - flying again after the bird strike repairs!
Jim C
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 6, 2013, at 12:25 PM, "Bob Turner" wrote:
>
> I think you mis-read, this post is about pitch trim motor speed, not flap speeds.
One poster has tied a change in trim speed to his flap position, others are
using a speed sensitive device (safe trim).
> Yes, the trim speed as it comes from Vans is about right for takeoff and landing
but too fast for cruise.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414984#414984
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
No experience here but after 350 hours of flying without rudder trim,
I've decided not to install the trim system because it's not worth the
effort.
I've found that on one hand, I like flying with my feet on the pedals.
It may be a holdover from the Maule. It takes very little pressure to
adjust for climb, cruise and descent. Flying with the AP engaged, the
pedals help keep me engaged.
On the other hand, there is enough friction in the system (and so little
pressure is required) that I can set the right pedal where I need it
and it will stay there in most conditions. I know that people have
simply added some friction or even a temporary stop to the cable to help
accomplish the same thing. That didn't sound right to me before I flew
but makes sense now. Adding a bit of friction to increase the breakout
force would have little or no effect on the operating friction and would
be sufficient for 'setting the trim' in this particular plane.
I do recommend aileron trim and something to slow down the pitch trim
and/or limit its effects (I use Safety Trim).
Bill
On 12/6/2013 10:21 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Anyone have experience with the electric rudder trim kit that is available for
the RV10? Is rudder trim important in the 10?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415035#415035
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
[quote="flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com"]nobody could tell me 'how much
tab do you need?'. So I decided to use small RC servos to implement my
aileron and rudder trim which will drive a hinge segment, controllable
from the stick. I'll probably leave the installation of the hinges
'till after phase 1.
Linn
I use a 12" hinge segment as you describe, and it is more than enough. Very small
deflections will maintain trim. I think 6" would do the job; maybe even less.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415069#415069
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re bird strike repairs |
Wow, that was fast! I started on my windshield install shortly after
your incident report. Still working on getting the fiberglass fairing
finished.
On 12/7/2013 8:12 AM, Jim Combs wrote:
> -
> N312F - flying again after the bird strike repairs!
>
> Jim C
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re bird strike repairs |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
The second time goes a LOT quicker than the first time!
The fear of screwing it up is not there. Its the 3 hours of grinding out
the old one that was the worst.
Jim C
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Wow, that was fast! I started on my windshield install shortly after your
> incident report. Still working on getting the fiberglass fairing finished.
>
> On 12/7/2013 8:12 AM, Jim Combs wrote:
>
>> -
>> N312F - flying again after the bird strike repairs!
>>
>> Jim C
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re bird strike repairs |
| From: | Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
Hopefully you used the desser/Cee Baileys,
That would explain the quick time to repair
On Dec 7, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Jim Combs wrote:
> The second time goes a LOT quicker than the first time!
>
> The fear of screwing it up is not there. Its the 3 hours of grinding out t
he old one that was the worst.
>
> Jim C
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote
:
>
> Wow, that was fast! I started on my windshield install shortly after your i
ncident report. Still working on getting the fiberglass fairing finished.
>
> On 12/7/2013 8:12 AM, Jim Combs wrote:
> -
> N312F - flying again after the bird strike repairs!
>
> Jim C
>
>
>
>
> =========================
> om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> "_blank">www.mrrace.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> =========================
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> =========================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> =========================
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
Thanks Jim. I was going to start out with 12" and trim as necessary. I
can adjust the speed of the servo easily so I hope to end up with
smallest added drag and good trim function.
Linn
On 12/7/2013 1:20 PM, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> [quote="flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com"]nobody could tell me 'how much
> tab do you need?'. So I decided to use small RC servos to implement my
> aileron and rudder trim which will drive a hinge segment, controllable
> from the stick. I'll probably leave the installation of the hinges
> 'till after phase 1.
> Linn
>
>
> I use a 12" hinge segment as you describe, and it is more than enough. Very small
deflections will maintain trim. I think 6" would do the job; maybe even less.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415069#415069
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re bird strike repairs |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
I tried to contact them and could not. So I put a Vans window back in.
It goes a lot easier the second time around.
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Pascal wrote:
> Hopefully you used the desser/Cee Baileys,
> That would explain the quick time to repair
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Jim Combs wrote:
>
> The second time goes a LOT quicker than the first time!
>
> The fear of screwing it up is not there. Its the 3 hours of grinding out
> the old one that was the worst.
>
> Jim C
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> Wow, that was fast! I started on my windshield install shortly after your
>> incident report. Still working on getting the fiberglass fairing finished.
>>
>> On 12/7/2013 8:12 AM, Jim Combs wrote:
>>
>>> -
>>> N312F - flying again after the bird strike repairs!
>>>
>>> Jim C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> "_blank">www.mrrace.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ===================================
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===================================
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from M.L.Skunkworks
for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a company called Aerosport
that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked]
Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the RV-10
needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
Yep - I looked at this and decided that while it is simple and effective, it
is way overpriced. The M.L. Skunkworks version is still listed for $115 -
much more reasonable. http://www.mlblueskunk.com/Rudder_Trim_System.html
After all the rigging tweaks during Phase One I have not found a need for
rudder trim in cruise.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 10:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
-->
I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from
M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a
company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked]
Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the
RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
I mentioned the tab, that fellow Don McDonald helped me create and it was
not a big deal. You grab a piece of aluminum, 4" X 2" and you bend it
slightly. Fly and see what happens at cruise. adjust as needed and repeat
flight until ball is centered. If I add up the cost of gas I guess it was
about $75, except I was flying anyway so it was practically free. My ball is
centered than not and I rarely need to adjust it in cruise, John is right
on, once you get the rudder tab tuned in there is very little trim
adjustments needed.
I know Tim Olson went the route of the trim tab to electronic trim, I would
encourage all you debating this to check out his extensive review and steps
to do oneself.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: johngoodman
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 7:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from
M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a
company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked]
Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the
RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
John
Aerosport Products rudder trim is a much more refined unit then the
skunkworks.
You get what you pay for with our rudder trim. It might not be for everyone.
If you saw
What goes into making this a quality unit and you may or may not understand.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Products
8090 howe industrial pkwy
canal winchester, ohio 43110
614.834.8659p
www.aerosportproducts.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 10:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
-->
I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from
M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a
company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked]
Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the
RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
I love my rudder trim form Aerosport. It works perfect and doesn't add
weight to the rudder assembly. As a great by-product it holds the rudder
from being slammed around in winds. Of course you need to put in a gust
lock in strong gusts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Combs
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2013 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
John
Aerosport Products rudder trim is a much more refined unit then the
skunkworks.
You get what you pay for with our rudder trim. It might not be for everyone.
If you saw
What goes into making this a quality unit and you may or may not understand.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Products
8090 howe industrial pkwy
canal winchester, ohio 43110
614.834.8659p
www.aerosportproducts.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 10:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder trim RV-10
-->
I used a spring-based rudder trim system. I got it in 2008 from
M.L.Skunkworks for $75. I think he is out of business, but there is a
company called Aerosport that sells the same thing for $250 [Shocked]
Regardless, it works great and I rarely have to change it. I don't think the
RV-10 needs much rudder trim, unless you have crooked pants....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415117#415117
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall |
| From: | "Mike Whisky" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
My test program asks for a full power 30 bank stall.
M question is if this has been done by others and what is the aircrafts behavior.
I'd expect that the low wing would stall first due to lower airspeed compared
to the outer turn wing.
What did you experience?
Thanks
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
That's a strange one for a non-acrobatic RV-10. It would take a LOT of nose up
at full power to stall.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415144#415144
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_bank_stall? |
Michael,
please discuss with your flight advisor, I would do a step up approach
first with 60% power to get a feeling (and start enough high).
My Glastar does exactly the opposite to what you describe (and I can
repeat it) so the outer wing stalls and the plane goes into a straight
and level attitude with nose down, very tame.
However I did hear from Lancair/Glasair pilot from wing overs! (Andre
Beusch might be a good person to talk about his experience.)
Good luck (and I'm impressed with your landings, seems the 10 has a lot
of elevator authority on slow speed as well as that nose gear is up
about half the runway long :)
Cheers Werner
On 08.12.2013 20:17, Mike Whisky wrote:
>
> My test program asks for a full power 30 bank stall.
> M question is if this has been done by others and what is the aircrafts behavior.
I'd expect that the low wing would stall first due to lower airspeed compared
to the outer turn wing.
>
> What did you experience?
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_bank_stal?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?l? |
John,
the idea behind that point is to simulate a large bank on a go around.
It should not be done that way, but in Switzerland the test flying
includes that program point.
Cheers Werner
On 08.12.2013 21:23, johngoodman wrote:
>
> That's a strange one for a non-acrobatic RV-10.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=C2=B0?= bank stall |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Remember that stall depends on angle of attack, not airspeed.
The raised wing has a slightly higher angle of attack due to the lowered aileron.
The plane just falls out of the turn, if the ball is centered.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415151#415151
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_RV10=2DList=3A_Full_power_30=C2=B0_bank_stall? |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
If you are forced to do such a test, I would load to near gross weight, and
bring the power in very slowly. Someone should be able to explain what
scenario it is supposed to duplicate. Flaps should be up for most any
scenario including missed approach or go around, as there should be no
turning before flaps are retracted.
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Mike Whisky wrote:
>
> My test program asks for a full power 30=B0 bank stall.
> M question is if this has been done by others and what is the aircrafts
> behavior. I'd expect that the low wing would stall first due to lower
> airspeed compared to the outer turn wing.
>
> What did you experience?
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?bank_stall? |
I'm thinking that the test is just a plain accelerated stall ..... and
the stall should be occur about 20 knots above straight and level stall
speed.
So, at some comfortable speed 90 to 100 knots .... roll into the 30
degree bank and apply back pressure to hold altitude. The airspeed
should decrease as you add back pressure until the stall occurs.
Different airframes act differently. Some will roll to the outside of
the turn and some will just drop the nose and roll to the inside. Let
us know if that satisfies the test and what the resulting unusual
attitude you get!!!
I may be wrong, but this is my take.
Linn
On 12/8/2013 7:00 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> If you are forced to do such a test, I would load to near gross
> weight, and bring the power in very slowly. Someone should be able to
> explain what scenario it is supposed to duplicate. Flaps should be up
> for most any scenario including missed approach or go around, as there
> should be no turning before flaps are retracted.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Mike Whisky > wrote:
>
> >
>
> My test program asks for a full power 30 bank stall.
> M question is if this has been done by others and what is the
> aircrafts behavior. I'd expect that the low wing would stall first
> due to lower airspeed compared to the outer turn wing.
>
> What did you experience?
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415139#415139
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> "_blank">www.mrrace.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
> --
>
> - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
> *
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full power =?ISO-8859-1?Q?30=B0?= bank stall |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Technically yes it's an accelerated stall but at a 30 degree bank the load factor
is only 1.15, so stall speed should go up 7.5% -about 5 kias.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415159#415159
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
It's always funny to watch this thread pop up, it's almost like someone has
it on their calendar to re-start the debate every 4 or 6 months.
Basically, my thoughts on Rudder trim are these:
First and foremost, rudder trim is not something that is a one-size-fits-all
thing. It is not a NEEDED thing, and it isn't a big safety thing.
There isn't
any reason people HAVE to have rudder trim. I flew something like
285 hours before I had any rudder trim, flying with a wooden block painted
to match and attached and in general it was nearly sufficient.
Nearly.
Everyone flies a different mission, and I fly very little short-hop local
flights. I probably spend over 90% of my flying on longer legs.
Some of them loaded to gross wt. Some light. Some in between.
Airspeeds vary between 150kts and 170kts. It all depends.
In that environment, those first 285 hours had the annoyance of
always requiring a foot on a pedal putting just the right pressure
on to keep in trim. What happens if you are not in trim? Well, it's
worse than just having a constant crab angle....the view out the
window is tilted. To have a nice level horizon, you need to be in trim.
I find it annoying to not be level....because it just isn't right, and
shouldn't be that way. For a short hop you wouldn't even notice
it. But, if you are an X/C flier, it is a pain.
A rudder block, or fixed tab (bendable), would suffice if you almost always
fly the same speeds and weights. It is simple, easy, and as Pascal
did, the bendable tab is about as simple and easy and quick to do as you
can get. For a static tab I think I prefer the wedge block, for
aesthetics,
but once you have it set right, it will fix probably much of your trim
issues. Some of my trips pre-trim were ok. Many of them were not.
It all depended on if I flew LOP, ROP, heavy, or light. It's not wrong to
go that way. For many people, you'll be satisfied.
Then there's the spring-bias trim. Now that there are good choices
out there, I think this is a plenty reasonable alternative for many.
As Sean mentioned, it does give some spring to the rudder to prevent
minor movement in light breeze. It does not at all mean you don't
need a gust lock. It's fairly simple to install, and should do the job
pretty well. Personally, I would recommend that if you go with spring
bias trim, you also do a fixed wedge to correct most of it. That way
the spring bias is nearly 100% neutralized most of the time, and
you only use it slightly. There's nothing at all wrong with the
spring bias trim, and I think many people will love it. It's the minimum
that I personally would be happy with....and it can be added post-build,
so that's nice too.
Then there's the adjustable tab trim. This is what I have.
It's something that I *personally* would absolutely do again,
and my preference hasn't changed...I'd do it the same way. In fact, I'll be
rebuilding my rudder someday and I plan to incorporate it almost identically
into the new build. I had debated adding a cutout tab, but I don't know
if it's
worth the work and the increased thinking about how to structurally
reinforce
things. The hinge tab on the trailing edge is simple, works well, and
is fairly
minimal impact. I don't remember exactly (I think it's in my write-up)
how long
it took, but I'm sure it wasn't more than one weekend, with the bulk of it
being one evening. So time invested was minimal. To me, aerodynamic
trim like this is about as good as you can get for trimming. You're actually
trimming your flying surface of the rudder to be in trim, just like you do
with the elevator. It means that there is no tension on either rudder
cable in flight, which isn't necessarily a benefit...it just means that the
rudder has no need for any actuation to keep it perfect. I actually
think a little spring return on the pedals may be a good thing, but again,
there are ways that it will also be less convenient. Van's has a very
simple system, and any change to it adds some degree of
negative side, even if there is a benefit added. The world isn't
100% black or 100% white....anything you do will involve a little
grey. The biggest downside to the electric trim is that you will be BETTER
off doing it pre-paint. I did mine post-paint and while it turned out good,
it would have been better pre-paint. The biggest upside is
the absolute perfect adjustment to trim with no effect on the pedals
or feel whatsoever. Do I use it, yes....I just did a round trip to Florida
and I used it on that trip both ways. I had a sloped horizon at one point
that was ticking me off, so I trimmed it out. It worked well. But, it's not
necessarily "better" than any other method. All of them can work.
I do think that for most x/c fliers, at least those who are really in tune
to their airplane, will enjoy at least some form of adjustable trim.
I also think that for those who don't have adjustable trim, their opinions
may actually change as they fly more and more long x/c legs. The fact
is, trim is not a static thing unless all flight characteristics are
also static....it's just the individual's toleration for imperfection as it
gets more out of trim.
It's just funny to see the thread come back again and again.
You can ask if rudder trim is needed, and either answer, Yes or No,
is correct. And which system is best? Well, that is all up to
the builder too. You're going to find satisfied people with ANY method.
So I'd encourage the builder to actually sit and think about it on their
own. Spend some time pondering it. Then just pick one and go.
Aileron trim....that I think is needed. Yes, there are those who don't
agree,
but the -10 tanks are so long, and it doesn't take too much imbalance to
develop that rolling tendency. You can minimize it with good fuel
management, but if this one were put to a vote, my guess is you'd
have maybe 5-10% of the people who fly lots of X/C time who
would vote no.
Rudder trim, if electric, would be ok either at full speed or reduced.
If you have safety trim, which is probably ideal from a simplicity
standpoint in wiring, I'd just do speed reduction so you can be
very precise. Otherwise, full-speed will work.
Aileron trim you'll want to run full speed for sure.
Elevator trim I believe is a safety issue if you don't do speed reduction
on it, but ONLY at airspeeds over 100 or 110kts. You definitely
want full speed when in the pattern. But you absolutely don't want
full speed while flying. It is just too dangerous if you get a stuck
switch, shorted ground, bumped switch, or anything that could cause
more than 1 second of accidental trim. Even 1 second of accidental
trim is almost guaranteed to cause you to bust your IFR assigned
altitude, so even from that aspect it's just not worth leaving it full
speed. Yes, I also flew many hours with only full-speed trim, but
that wasn't incident free. It did work, and I learned to live with it
for a while, but there are safety issues and I think Safety Trim basically
fixed all those issues for me. This isn't meant to be a plug for
Safety Trim, because it gets annoying when people constantly
plug products on the forums, but, they did a great job on it.
If you have Vertical Power and do it there, fine. If you did a
roll-your own, fine. Even if you don't deal with runaway trim,
you really need to do something to have a dual-stage speed
on the trim. Do it however you want...but just do it.
Tim
On 12/8/2013 10:29 AM, Pascal wrote:
>
> I mentioned the tab, that fellow Don McDonald helped me create and it
> was not a big deal. You grab a piece of aluminum, 4" X 2" and you bend
> it slightly. Fly and see what happens at cruise. adjust as needed and
> repeat flight until ball is centered. If I add up the cost of gas I
> guess it was about $75, except I was flying anyway so it was
> practically free. My ball is centered than not and I rarely need to
> adjust it in cruise, John is right on, once you get the rudder tab
> tuned in there is very little trim adjustments needed.
> I know Tim Olson went the route of the trim tab to electronic trim, I
> would encourage all you debating this to check out his extensive
> review and steps to do oneself.
> Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
Absolutely, without a doubt, an excellent post. I really learned a lot
and also got some valuable info.
I agree that building a stock airframe isn't 'bad' except to say that
departure from the plans adds immense additional build time. At least it
does for me.
I chose to use model airplane servos because of the light weight (one of
my 'hot buttons') and low cost. Ease of installation using the hinge
method is also a plus. However I had to install a pulse width
controller for the servos ..... and instead of a simple 555 chip I chose
to do it with an evaluation processor so I could control it's speed and
position 'better'. Because I can!
I have already wired the elevator trim and flap controls through relays
and thanks to Tim's take on the elevator trim speed I'll go ahead and
add both of them to the processor program to 'pulse' the relays and
thereby control the speed of those two functions as well. Making the
speed variable with the length of time the button is pressed becomes a
simple programming task. The change does, however, add to my build
time, but I take Tim's concern with elevator trim speed as a safety
factor seriously.
As for Tim's 'funny part' ..... I don't think there's real effort to
start a food fight every so often. I like to search a subject to see
what has been written before but may post the same question again since
there's more 'experience' gained by those fortunate to get their project
finished and gaining additional knowledge on whether the mods they made
were successful or a waste of time.
OK, lunch is over so it's back to building!!!
Linn
On 12/9/2013 11:12 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> It's always funny to watch this thread pop up, it's almost like
> someone has
> it on their calendar to re-start the debate every 4 or 6 months.
>
> Basically, my thoughts on Rudder trim are these:
>
> First and foremost, rudder trim is not something that is a
> one-size-fits-all
> thing. It is not a NEEDED thing, and it isn't a big safety thing.
> There isn't
> any reason people HAVE to have rudder trim. I flew something like
> 285 hours before I had any rudder trim, flying with a wooden block
> painted
> to match and attached and in general it was nearly sufficient.
> Nearly.
>
> Everyone flies a different mission, and I fly very little short-hop local
> flights. I probably spend over 90% of my flying on longer legs.
> Some of them loaded to gross wt. Some light. Some in between.
> Airspeeds vary between 150kts and 170kts. It all depends.
> In that environment, those first 285 hours had the annoyance of
> always requiring a foot on a pedal putting just the right pressure
> on to keep in trim. What happens if you are not in trim? Well, it's
> worse than just having a constant crab angle....the view out the
> window is tilted. To have a nice level horizon, you need to be in trim.
> I find it annoying to not be level....because it just isn't right, and
> shouldn't be that way. For a short hop you wouldn't even notice
> it. But, if you are an X/C flier, it is a pain.
>
> A rudder block, or fixed tab (bendable), would suffice if you almost
> always
> fly the same speeds and weights. It is simple, easy, and as Pascal
> did, the bendable tab is about as simple and easy and quick to do as you
> can get. For a static tab I think I prefer the wedge block, for
> aesthetics,
> but once you have it set right, it will fix probably much of your trim
> issues. Some of my trips pre-trim were ok. Many of them were not.
> It all depended on if I flew LOP, ROP, heavy, or light. It's not
> wrong to
> go that way. For many people, you'll be satisfied.
>
> Then there's the spring-bias trim. Now that there are good choices
> out there, I think this is a plenty reasonable alternative for many.
> As Sean mentioned, it does give some spring to the rudder to prevent
> minor movement in light breeze. It does not at all mean you don't
> need a gust lock. It's fairly simple to install, and should do the job
> pretty well. Personally, I would recommend that if you go with spring
> bias trim, you also do a fixed wedge to correct most of it. That way
> the spring bias is nearly 100% neutralized most of the time, and
> you only use it slightly. There's nothing at all wrong with the
> spring bias trim, and I think many people will love it. It's the minimum
> that I personally would be happy with....and it can be added post-build,
> so that's nice too.
>
> Then there's the adjustable tab trim. This is what I have.
> It's something that I *personally* would absolutely do again,
> and my preference hasn't changed...I'd do it the same way. In fact,
> I'll be
> rebuilding my rudder someday and I plan to incorporate it almost
> identically
> into the new build. I had debated adding a cutout tab, but I don't
> know if it's
> worth the work and the increased thinking about how to structurally
> reinforce
> things. The hinge tab on the trailing edge is simple, works well, and
> is fairly
> minimal impact. I don't remember exactly (I think it's in my
> write-up) how long
> it took, but I'm sure it wasn't more than one weekend, with the bulk
> of it
> being one evening. So time invested was minimal. To me, aerodynamic
> trim like this is about as good as you can get for trimming. You're
> actually
> trimming your flying surface of the rudder to be in trim, just like
> you do
> with the elevator. It means that there is no tension on either rudder
> cable in flight, which isn't necessarily a benefit...it just means
> that the
> rudder has no need for any actuation to keep it perfect. I actually
> think a little spring return on the pedals may be a good thing, but
> again,
> there are ways that it will also be less convenient. Van's has a very
> simple system, and any change to it adds some degree of
> negative side, even if there is a benefit added. The world isn't
> 100% black or 100% white....anything you do will involve a little
> grey. The biggest downside to the electric trim is that you will be
> BETTER
> off doing it pre-paint. I did mine post-paint and while it turned out
> good,
> it would have been better pre-paint. The biggest upside is
> the absolute perfect adjustment to trim with no effect on the pedals
> or feel whatsoever. Do I use it, yes....I just did a round trip to
> Florida
> and I used it on that trip both ways. I had a sloped horizon at one
> point
> that was ticking me off, so I trimmed it out. It worked well. But,
> it's not
> necessarily "better" than any other method. All of them can work.
>
> I do think that for most x/c fliers, at least those who are really in
> tune
> to their airplane, will enjoy at least some form of adjustable trim.
> I also think that for those who don't have adjustable trim, their
> opinions
> may actually change as they fly more and more long x/c legs. The fact
> is, trim is not a static thing unless all flight characteristics are
> also static....it's just the individual's toleration for imperfection
> as it
> gets more out of trim.
>
> It's just funny to see the thread come back again and again.
> You can ask if rudder trim is needed, and either answer, Yes or No,
> is correct. And which system is best? Well, that is all up to
> the builder too. You're going to find satisfied people with ANY method.
> So I'd encourage the builder to actually sit and think about it on their
> own. Spend some time pondering it. Then just pick one and go.
>
> Aileron trim....that I think is needed. Yes, there are those who don't
> agree,
> but the -10 tanks are so long, and it doesn't take too much imbalance to
> develop that rolling tendency. You can minimize it with good fuel
> management, but if this one were put to a vote, my guess is you'd
> have maybe 5-10% of the people who fly lots of X/C time who
> would vote no.
>
> Rudder trim, if electric, would be ok either at full speed or reduced.
> If you have safety trim, which is probably ideal from a simplicity
> standpoint in wiring, I'd just do speed reduction so you can be
> very precise. Otherwise, full-speed will work.
>
> Aileron trim you'll want to run full speed for sure.
>
> Elevator trim I believe is a safety issue if you don't do speed reduction
> on it, but ONLY at airspeeds over 100 or 110kts. You definitely
> want full speed when in the pattern. But you absolutely don't want
> full speed while flying. It is just too dangerous if you get a stuck
> switch, shorted ground, bumped switch, or anything that could cause
> more than 1 second of accidental trim. Even 1 second of accidental
> trim is almost guaranteed to cause you to bust your IFR assigned
> altitude, so even from that aspect it's just not worth leaving it full
> speed. Yes, I also flew many hours with only full-speed trim, but
> that wasn't incident free. It did work, and I learned to live with it
> for a while, but there are safety issues and I think Safety Trim
> basically
> fixed all those issues for me. This isn't meant to be a plug for
> Safety Trim, because it gets annoying when people constantly
> plug products on the forums, but, they did a great job on it.
> If you have Vertical Power and do it there, fine. If you did a
> roll-your own, fine. Even if you don't deal with runaway trim,
> you really need to do something to have a dual-stage speed
> on the trim. Do it however you want...but just do it.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 12/8/2013 10:29 AM, Pascal wrote:
>>
>> I mentioned the tab, that fellow Don McDonald helped me create and it
>> was not a big deal. You grab a piece of aluminum, 4" X 2" and you
>> bend it slightly. Fly and see what happens at cruise. adjust as
>> needed and repeat flight until ball is centered. If I add up the cost
>> of gas I guess it was about $75, except I was flying anyway so it was
>> practically free. My ball is centered than not and I rarely need to
>> adjust it in cruise, John is right on, once you get the rudder tab
>> tuned in there is very little trim adjustments needed.
>> I know Tim Olson went the route of the trim tab to electronic trim, I
>> would encourage all you debating this to check out his extensive
>> review and steps to do oneself.
>> Pascal
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ Heat engine block heater |
I have the same Reiff heaters that Tim mentioned. I'm getting similar results.
It was in the twenties this weekend and the temps were in the nineties at start.
I turned on the heat with my cell about four hours before the flight. A
much nicer arrangement that I had with my Cherokee using propane heaters.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder trim RV-10 |
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <napolin(at)me.com> |
I only have about 65 hours on the 10 but I just flew from MD to FL. I found that
it doesnt take much force on the pedals to center the ball and there is enough
friction in the system to keep it there a good part of the time. Right now
I dont see any need for rudder trim.
On the other hand I dont have the wheel pants or landing gear fairings installed
yet and if they arent aligned perfectly rudder trim might become more important
Nikolaos Napoli
> On Dec 6, 2013, at 10:21 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
>
> Anyone have experience with the electric rudder trim kit that is available for
the RV10? Is rudder trim important in the 10?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415035#415035
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ Heat engine block heater |
Tell me more about this turning on via cell phone thingy.
-Sean #40303
On 12/9/13, 12:59 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> I have the same Reiff heaters that Tim mentioned. I'm getting similar results.
It was in the twenties this weekend and the temps were in the nineties at start.
I turned on the heat with my cell about four hours before the flight.
A much nicer arrangement that I had with my Cherokee using propane heaters.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ Heat engine block heater |
Switchboxcontrol.com
It's got a built in T-Mobile cell phone that can receive and send SMS messages.
It's a prepaid device and the minimum you can load is $10. $10 over three
months gives you more texts than I'll ever need. You can let it go dormant
over the summer.
Works pretty well. I'm sure that you seen Phillips threads on VAF. He also supplies
a simple iOS and/or android app for those that don't want to learn the
SMS syntax
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 9, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:
Tell me more about this turning on via cell phone thingy.
-Sean #40303
> On 12/9/13, 12:59 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> I have the same Reiff heaters that Tim mentioned. I'm getting similar results.
It was in the twenties this weekend and the temps were in the nineties at start.
I turned on the heat with my cell about four hours before the flight.
A much nicer arrangement that I had with my Cherokee using propane heaters.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ Heat engine block heater |
That's awesome. Now I need to figure out how to hook it up to my hangar
heater thermostat to get the hangar from 46 to 64 degrees before I
arrive. :)
On 12/9/13, 2:35 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> Switchboxcontrol.com
>
> It's got a built in T-Mobile cell phone that can receive and send SMS messages.
It's a prepaid device and the minimum you can load is $10. $10 over three
months gives you more texts than I'll ever need. You can let it go dormant
over the summer.
>
> Works pretty well. I'm sure that you seen Phillips threads on VAF. He also
supplies a simple iOS and/or android app for those that don't want to learn the
SMS syntax
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 9, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>
> Tell me more about this turning on via cell phone thingy.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
>> On 12/9/13, 12:59 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>>
>> I have the same Reiff heaters that Tim mentioned. I'm getting similar results.
It was in the twenties this weekend and the temps were in the nineties at start.
I turned on the heat with my cell about four hours before the flight.
A much nicer arrangement that I had with my Cherokee using propane heaters.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ Heat engine block heater |
Here is a schematic for those of you in cold areas who would like to
preheat your engine or hangar by SMS texts. It uses a Waferstar SMS
relay with 7 available relays. It's available through DHGate on the web.
The rest of the parts are Radio Shack DPDT 12v switching 110v relays and
about 1.5a 12v source. The SMS relay will send a text message to you
telling you that the requested action was done. I used an SMA connector
to RG-58 coax to make an antenna going out the wall of my metal hangar.
I stripped the exterior braid the length of the factory antenna and that
yields a signal strength of under 10 out of 32 which seems to be good
enough. I use an H2O Wireless card from Best Buy at $10 for 3 months.
Texts are $.05 and there will be 4/use.
I use it to turn of the engine heater or the furnace and ceiling fans
either together or singly. Any combination of the seven relays is
possible. The timer section of the schematic is used when I want to
leave early in the AM and don't want to getup the send the message 2-3
hours ahead of time. The timer is preprogrammed for any day with a start
time of 3AM and turns off at 9AM. The system is wired so that heater,
furnace and fans can all be turned on by hand at the hangar.
There was no electrical inspection done this so I have no clue if it
would pass.
I probably got a little carried away with this project but I really like
it.
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 527hrs
On Dec 9, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Sean Stephens
wrote:
>
> That's awesome. Now I need to figure out how to hook it up to my
hangar heater thermostat to get the hangar from 46 to 64 degrees before
I arrive. :)
>
>
>
> On 12/9/13, 2:35 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>>
>> Switchboxcontrol.com
>>
>> It's got a built in T-Mobile cell phone that can receive and send SMS
messages. It's a prepaid device and the minimum you can load is $10.
$10 over three months gives you more texts than I'll ever need. You
can let it go dormant over the summer.
>>
>> Works pretty well. I'm sure that you seen Phillips threads on VAF.
He also supplies a simple iOS and/or android app for those that don't
want to learn the SMS syntax
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Sean Stephens
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Tell me more about this turning on via cell phone thingy.
>>
>> -Sean #40303
>>
>>> On 12/9/13, 12:59 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>>>
>>> I have the same Reiff heaters that Tim mentioned. I'm getting
similar results. It was in the twenties this weekend and the temps were
in the nineties at start. I turned on the heat with my cell about four
hours before the flight. A much nicer arrangement that I had with my
Cherokee using propane heaters.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
The Vertical Power systems have trim speeds built in, and runaway cutoff as well.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415319#415319
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Unfortunately VP has just been sold. Remains to be seen if the new company will
continue production and support for E-AB equipment.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415334#415334
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vertical Power sold |
| From: | Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> |
Announcement
I am pleased to announce that Astronics acquired the Vertical Power
Electronic Circuit Breaker product line on November 26, 2013. Astronics
is a leading provider of advanced technologies for the global aerospace
and defense industries, including Electronic Circuit Breakers for
business jets such as the Eclipse 500, Pilatus PC-24, and Lear 85, under
the Astronics=92 CorePower=AE brand. Astronics will continue to
manufacture, sell and support the Vertical Power ECB products and is
excited to enter into the experimental aircraft and Light Sport aircraft
markets under the Vertical Power brand.
Vertical Power offices will be closed during the month of December as
the team moves to the Astronics=92 offices in Everett, Washington.
Please be patient with us during this transition; E-mail and telephone
call-back support will be provided during this period.
Thank you for your support over the years, and I hope you are as excited
about this next step in the journey as we are here. I truly believe that
we have found a great new home for our products with Astronics.
Kind regards,
Marc Ausman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Vertical Power sold |
I saw where they did not pick up the VP-400 product line, I wonder if that
became an orphan?
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Vertical Power sold
Announcement
I am pleased to announce that Astronics <http://www.astronics.com> acquired
the Vertical Power Electronic Circuit Breaker product line on November 26,
2013. Astronics is a leading provider of advanced technologies for the
global aerospace and defense industries, including Electronic Circuit
Breakers for business jets such as the Eclipse 500, Pilatus PC-24, and Lear
85, under the Astronics' CorePowerR brand. Astronics will continue to
manufacture, sell and support the Vertical Power ECB products and is excited
to enter into the experimental aircraft and Light Sport aircraft markets
under the Vertical Power brand.
Vertical Power offices will be closed during the month of December as the
team moves to the Astronics' offices in Everett, Washington. Please be
patient with us during this transition; E-mail and telephone call-back
support will be provided during this period.
Thank you for your support over the years, and I hope you are as excited
about this next step in the journey as we are here. I truly believe that we
have found a great new home for our products with Astronics.
Kind regards,
Marc Ausman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power sold |
I suspect that due to the intellectual capital from Austin Myers in the prod
uct may have something to do with that. Perhaps Austin will do something w
ith it like the original vp-300 application. Per speculation on my part
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2013, at 1:53 PM, "William Greenley" wrote:
I saw where they did not pick up the VP-400 product line, I wonder if that b
ecame an orphan?
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Vertical Power sold
Announcement
I am pleased to announce that Astronics acquired the Vertical Power Electron
ic Circuit Breaker product line on November 26, 2013. Astronics is a leading
provider of advanced technologies for the global aerospace and defense indu
stries, including Electronic Circuit Breakers for business jets such as the E
clipse 500, Pilatus PC-24, and Lear 85, under the Astronics=99 CorePow
er=C2=AE brand. Astronics will continue to manufacture, sell and support the
Vertical Power ECB products and is excited to enter into the experimental a
ircraft and Light Sport aircraft markets under the Vertical Power brand.
Vertical Power offices will be closed during the month of December as the te
am moves to the Astronics=99 offices in Everett, Washington. Please be
patient with us during this transition; E-mail and telephone call-back supp
ort will be provided during this period.
Thank you for your support over the years, and I hope you are as excited abo
ut this next step in the journey as we are here. I truly believe that we hav
e found a great new home for our products with Astronics.
Kind regards,
Marc Ausman
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
www.mypilotstore.com
www.mrrace.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Bob Turner wrote:
> Unfortunately VP has just been sold. Remains to be seen if the new company will
continue production and support for E-AB equipment.
Nothing unfortunate about it at all. Here is a quote from their web site:
"Astronics will continue to manufacture, sell and support the Vertical Power ECB
products and is excited to enter into the experimental aircraft and Light Sport
aircraft markets under the Vertical Power brand."
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415345#415345
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
And here is another famous quote; "If you Doctor,, you can keep your Doctor".
----- Original Message -----
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:17:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
Bob Turner wrote:
> Unfortunately VP has just been sold. Remains to be seen if the new company will
continue production and support for E-AB equipment.
Nothing unfortunate about it at all. Here is a quote from their web site:
"Astronics will continue to manufacture, sell and support the Vertical Power ECB
products and is excited to enter into the experimental aircraft and Light Sport
aircraft markets under the Vertical Power brand."
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415345#415345
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
davidsoutpost(at)comcast. wrote:
> And here is another famous quote; "If you Doctor,, you can keep your Doctor".
And just what is that supposed to mean?
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415349#415349
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
Typo..."If you like your doctor,,,,, you can keep your doctor". (Obama's big lie)
----- Original Message -----
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:03:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
davidsoutpost(at)comcast. wrote:
> And here is another famous quote; "If you Doctor,, you can keep your Doctor".
And just what is that supposed to mean?
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415349#415349
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I thought politics were supposed to be verboten here. Failed political
"promise" does not equal "big lie". We don't need to sully this list with
all the failed promises of both parties. I'll take the health care foibles
any day over the lies about "proof of weapons of mass destruction" and
starting wars against people that have not attacked our country.
Back to trimming my cowling and continued fiberglass hell.
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:01 PM, wrote:
> Typo..."If you like your doctor,,,,, you can keep your doctor". (Obama's
> big lie)
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
> *To: *rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:03:59 PM
>
> *Subject: *RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
>
>
> davidsoutpost(at)comcast. wrote:
> > And here is another famous quote; "If you Doctor,, you can keep your
> Doctor".
>
>
> And just what is that supposed to mean?
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415349#415349
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix... |
The point I am making is that just because someone, or company in this case, makes
a statement as factual, does not always mean its true. The ACA tie-in was
only because it is something fresh that pretty much everyone can relate to. Take
a chill-pill Kelly and fit your cowl.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:04:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
I thought politics were supposed to be verboten here. Failed political "promise"
does not equal "big lie". We don't need to sully this list with all the failed
promises of both parties. I'll take the health care foibles any day over the
lies about "proof of weapons of mass destruction" and starting wars against
people that have not attacked our country.
Back to trimming my cowling and continued fiberglass hell.
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:01 PM, < davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net > wrote:
Typo..."If you like your doctor,,,,, you can keep your doctor". (Obama's big lie)
From: "johngoodman" < johngoodman(at)earthlink.net >
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:03:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV 10 Aileron Trim easy fix...
davidsoutpost(at)comcast. wrote:
> And here is another famous quote; "If you Doctor,, you can keep your Doctor".
And just what is that supposed to mean?
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415349#415349
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power sold |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
I sure hope it's a good thing, I'm in the middle of designing? the electrical system.
Perhaps I should pause for a while to see what may be coming out?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415372#415372
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power sold |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Oh, forgot to mention I bought the VP-X system already, and have begun installing
it.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415391#415391
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
Wondering if anybody out there is checking torque on wing bolts at conditional
or some other interval of hours? (Regardless of torque stripe being good)
Thanks
Chris
N919AR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Why? The friction to start the nut moving will exceed the existing torque
setting. If isn't like an old engine with temperature cycles and gaskets
that shrink with break-in and heat. If your torque seal hasn't budged, the
bolt and nut haven't either.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Chris wrote:
> Wondering if anybody out there is checking torque on wing bolts at
> conditional or some other interval of hours? (Regardless of torque stripe
> being good)
> Thanks
> Chris
> N919AR
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <napolin(at)me.com> |
I think the torque value is considerably greater than the friction on the nu
t locking mechanism.
I have not checked the torque on these bolts as its not critical. These bol
ts are in double shear and do not need much torque to do their job. In gene
ral torque is critical in bolts that see considerable tension loading.
I check the torque seal, number of exposed threads, and for any annomalies.
Niko
Nikolaos Napoli
> On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Why? The friction to start the nut moving will exceed the existing torque s
etting. If isn't like an old engine with temperature cycles and gaskets that
shrink with break-in and heat. If your torque seal hasn't budged, the bolt a
nd nut haven't either.
>
>
>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Chris wrote:
>> Wondering if anybody out there is checking torque on wing bolts at condit
ional or some other interval of hours? (Regardless of torque stripe being g
ood)
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>> N919AR
>>
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Agreed. I was referring to the torque that would actually tighten the nut,
not that to just overcome the nylock friction.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Nikolaos Napoli wrote:
> I think the torque value is considerably greater than the friction on the
> nut locking mechanism.
>
> I have not checked the torque on these bolts as its not critical. These
> bolts are in double shear and do not need much torque to do their job. In
> general torque is critical in bolts that see considerable tension loading.
>
> I check the torque seal, number of exposed threads, and for any annomalies.
>
> Niko
>
> Nikolaos Napoli
>
> On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Why? The friction to start the nut moving will exceed the existing torque
> setting. If isn't like an old engine with temperature cycles and gaskets
> that shrink with break-in and heat. If your torque seal hasn't budged, the
> bolt and nut haven't either.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Chris wrote:
>
>> Wondering if anybody out there is checking torque on wing bolts at
>> conditional or some other interval of hours? (Regardless of torque stripe
>> being good)
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>> N919AR
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>
>> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
>
> *
>
> D============================================
> ot;">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
> books.com <http://books.com>"">www.buildersbooks.com
> quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
> quot;">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>
> ">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D============================================
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> D============================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberfrax on the firewall |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Has anyone out there used a product called FYREWRAP to insulate their firewall?
It is a fiberfrax-like product with stainless steel foil on one side. Regardless
of the product, is it better to insulate on the engine side or the cabin side
(or not insulate at all?)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415631#415631
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
Probably approaches primer in various opinions. I used fiberfrax on the
cabin side of firewall. I prefer having engine side of firewall smooth,
so that oil and dirt can be easily cleaned. Others will wax poetic about
advantages of engine side of firewall.
On 12/15/2013 6:25 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Has anyone out there used a product called FYREWRAP to insulate their firewall?
It is a fiberfrax-like product with stainless steel foil on one side. Regardless
of the product, is it better to insulate on the engine side or the cabin
side (or not insulate at all?)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415631#415631
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Fiberfrax on the firewall |
Cabin side. That way the grease and grime does not get into the insulation.
I used this for the whole plane (the double sided version):
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insulator3.php
And this tape to hold it all in:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insultape.php
If you want to do the minimalistic approach then just do the inside of the
firewall and the tunnel floor. I did all the hidden areas between the
floorboards, under the seats and the where the hull has a double wall.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:26 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall
Has anyone out there used a product called FYREWRAP to insulate their
firewall? It is a fiberfrax-like product with stainless steel foil on one
side. Regardless of the product, is it better to insulate on the engine side
or the cabin side (or not insulate at all?)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415631#415631
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2013 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2013 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors.
It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection
up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Andy, Bob, Corbin, George, and Jon for their generous support
through the supply of many great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent
products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Corbin Glowacki - My Pilot Store - http://www.mypilotstore.com
George Race - Race Consulting - http://www.mrrace.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2013 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2013.html
Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
Carl,
I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called
Foss Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2
sides. You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably use
it again on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls
and firewall, and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit
to me of the silver on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but
if I can find the "plus" stuff easily I'll do that.
Tim
On 12/15/2013 8:48 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Cabin side. That way the grease and grime does not get into the insulation.
>
> I used this for the whole plane (the double sided version):
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insulator3.php
> And this tape to hold it all in:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insultape.php
>
> If you want to do the minimalistic approach then just do the inside of the
> firewall and the tunnel floor. I did all the hidden areas between the
> floorboards, under the seats and the where the hull has a double wall.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:26 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall
>
>
> Has anyone out there used a product called FYREWRAP to insulate their
> firewall? It is a fiberfrax-like product with stainless steel foil on one
> side. Regardless of the product, is it better to insulate on the engine side
> or the cabin side (or not insulate at all?)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415631#415631
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
Carl, link below has an option to buy it with foil on both sides.
-Sean #40303 (struggling to complete the last 90%)
> Tim Olson
> December 16, 2013 at 8:31 AM
>
> Carl,
> I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called
> Foss Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2
> sides. You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably
> use
> it again on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls
> and firewall, and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit
> to me of the silver on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but
> if I can find the "plus" stuff easily I'll do that.
>
> Tim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Fiberfrax on the firewall |
ACS has both the single and double side aluminum versions. They are listed
as different part numbers (09-06016 for double sided). The double side
makes the most sense as it provides a barrier to getting "stuff" into the
insulation material.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall
Carl,
I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called Foss
Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2 sides.
You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably use it again
on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls and firewall,
and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit to me of the silver
on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but if I can find the "plus"
stuff easily I'll do that.
Tim
On 12/15/2013 8:48 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> -->
>
> Cabin side. That way the grease and grime does not get into the
insulation.
>
> I used this for the whole plane (the double sided version):
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insulator3.php
> And this tape to hold it all in:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cs/insulation/insultape.php
>
> If you want to do the minimalistic approach then just do the inside of
> the firewall and the tunnel floor. I did all the hidden areas between
> the floorboards, under the seats and the where the hull has a double wall.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:26 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Fiberfrax on the firewall
>
>
> Has anyone out there used a product called FYREWRAP to insulate their
> firewall? It is a fiberfrax-like product with stainless steel foil on
> one side. Regardless of the product, is it better to insulate on the
> engine side or the cabin side (or not insulate at all?)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415631#415631
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
I guess it's Monday...I looked right at it and didn't see. Thanks Carl!
Tim
On 12/16/2013 8:50 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> ACS has both the single and double side aluminum versions. They are listed
> as different part numbers (09-06016 for double sided). The double side
> makes the most sense as it provides a barrier to getting "stuff" into the
> insulation material.
>
> Carl
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I didn't see a link. I did look at the Foss Thermozite product just now. I
am concerned that the fiber between the foil layers is polyester, from
shredded plastic bottles. I wonder how well that stands up to heat compared
to ceramic materials like fiberfrax. If I could find genuine fiberfrax
sandwiched in foil I would love to add that to the fiberfrax I already
installed.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> Carl, link below has an option to buy it with foil on both sides.
>
> -Sean #40303 (struggling to complete the last 90%)
>
> Tim Olson
>> December 16, 2013 at 8:31 AM
>>
>>
>> Carl,
>> I used almost exactly the same thing. At the time I think it was called
>> Foss Thermozite Plus. But the stuff I got (the "plus") was silver on 2
>> sides. You didn't run across that anywhere, did you? I will probably use
>> it again on the RV-14. I used red RTV to stick it to the side walls
>> and firewall, and it hasn't loosened up at all....that was the benefit
>> to me of the silver on 2 sides. The tape would work too of course, but
>> if I can find the "plus" stuff easily I'll do that.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I used a product from Aircraft Spruce called Firewall 2000 Ceramic Blanket:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php
I used a special adhesive to attach it - still holding strong after 2.5 years of
flying. The hardest part is not cutting yourself with the stainless steel foil
side.
On the cockpit side I used Soundex.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415737#415737
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I used 1/8" bare fiberfrax on cabin side of fw, tunnel bottom and tunnel fwd. I
used the recommended 2000F glue from ACS. No problems with it coming loose or
tunnel heat. I burn tested a sample and was not overwelmed with outgassing. I
installed an adjustable snap switch limit set to 230F near cowl outlet. It has
went off once cruising at 16,500', full gross, LOP, 6 deg pos pitch(normally
2-3). Assuming thin air heated up more passing cylinders. Knowing you have a
fire should be top priority. Along with switch/led, I have set my fuel flow limit
to 26 gph. Normal on takeoff is 25.6
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415761#415761
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I did and would recommend checking at first condition insp or 100 hrs after build
completion.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415763#415763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
Kind of a belt and suspenders thing. If you properly torqued on final
assembly, and put torque seal on each bolt, to check it you have to
remove the torque seal, and if the nut does not move at proper torque
you haven't learned much. If you really have doubt about the torque, you
need to back off the nut, and bring it back up to proper torque.
Questionable whether you gain much. The wing bolts aren't something that
will work loose with changing forces on the wing, or with temperature
changes. There was a service bulletin to change wing bolts on Bonanzas
and Barons, which were also close tolerance bolts. Found they did more
damage than leaving them alone.
On 12/16/2013 3:04 PM, rv10flyer wrote:
>
> I did and would recommend checking at first condition insp or 100 hrs after build
completion.
>
> --------
> Wayne G.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415763#415763
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
The one thing I can think of is that if the bolt shank was pinched or really tight
during installation, could the nut come to final torque without pulling the
bolt head tight against the spar? After flying, the bolt head could move aft
and now there is no torque?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415772#415772
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
I'm not there yet so bear with me. The spar bolts, in this
installation, are in shear so I'm having a hard time understanding why
the focus is on the proper torque at some time later .... while the
torque seal is intact.
Kelly, IMHO, got it right the first time .... checking the torque in
this instance doesn't mean diddly unless you back off the nut and
re-torque .... and the exercise hasn't accomplished anything except to
place the mind at ease. It was a waste of worry to begin with.
So, where did I go wrong???
Linn
On 12/16/2013 9:48 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> The one thing I can think of is that if the bolt shank was pinched or really
tight during installation, could the nut come to final torque without pulling
the bolt head tight against the spar? After flying, the bolt head could move aft
and now there is no torque?
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415772#415772
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberfrax on the firewall |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
See this thread
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=37012&highlight=insulation+glue
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415783#415783
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Issue |
| From: | "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
Update on my fuel pump issue... I replaced the suspect Tempest fuel with a new
Lycoming pump and no longer have any engine stumble issues. The fuel pressure
now consistently displays ~20psi. No more stumbles when switching tanks or at
high angles of attack. I just finished up my annual and closely examined the entire
fuel system for any blockages... Nothing was found in any screen. I also
opted to leave my Flowscan sensor in the tunnel as it's not broke, so there's
nothing to fix.
Cheers,
Jay
N433RV - Flying
[quote="hotwheels"]I spoke to a couple of vendors and my A&P of choice yesterday.
The consensus was to:
* Revisit sensor settings and connections (I don't expect this one to reveal much)
* Closely examine the fuel system for anything obvious.
* Replace the Tempest Fuel Pump with a (new, not rebuilt) genuine Lycoming Pump
18 psi is definitely not acceptable. Van's had no input (guess who sold me the
fuel pump). They claimed they'd never heard of such a thing and were out of touch
(their words) with builders. Really? If so, that's disturbing on several levels.
This particular component is too darn critical to screw around with. It needs to
work and be a known quantity.
Jay
433RV - flying[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415800#415800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WIng Bolt Check |
The wing bolt question was a question to discuss any potential issues that maybe
I had not thought of... not a "worry". I do know I do not want to fly around
with them loose so I will leave it at that. Maybe it entered my mind from having
a Bonanza years ago and having the wing bolt bulletin Kelly mentioned.
Thanks for the replies and considerations.
Chris
N9191AR
----- Original Message -----
From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: WIng Bolt Check
I'm not there yet so bear with me. The spar bolts, in this
installation, are in shear so I'm having a hard time understanding why
the focus is on the proper torque at some time later .... while the
torque seal is intact.
Kelly, IMHO, got it right the first time .... checking the torque in
this instance doesn't mean diddly unless you back off the nut and
re-torque .... and the exercise hasn't accomplished anything except to
place the mind at ease. It was a waste of worry to begin with.
So, where did I go wrong???
Linn
On 12/16/2013 9:48 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> The one thing I can think of is that if the bolt shank was pinched or really
tight during installation, could the nut come to final torque without pulling
the bolt head tight against the spar? After flying, the bolt head could move aft
and now there is no torque?
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415772#415772
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Anyone out there have a good system or product for labeling wires. I'm starting
to lose track of which goes where...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415805#415805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Bob,
on my last project I produced wire labels out of an Excel sheet (very
tiny font) cut it and did put it on the wire with some clear heatshrink.
Worked out fine, however there are as well nice labeling units around
(check in google for wire label printer.
Cheers Werner
On 18.12.2013 07:40, bob88 wrote:
>
> Anyone out there have a good system or product for labeling wires. I'm starting
to lose track of which goes where...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415805#415805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Cutting UHMV blocks |
Guys
I have a thing cutting UHMV blocks, like the ones used in the flaps system.
My cuts are never straight, they leave many burrs and the look of the final
piece is not good.
I don't have a band saw, I'm using a hack saw and sometimes a cutting disc
in a Dremell tool.
Can someone point me out the best method and tool to cut UHMV blocks,
please.
Thanks
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting UHMV blocks |
Carlos,
use a very fine tooth metal cutting blade and a slow speed.
Burrs can be removed with a file. I had good success as well with
a standard hand metall saw and the block clamped in a vise.
Cheers Werner
On 18.12.2013 09:39, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Guys
>
> I have a thing cutting UHMV blocks, like the ones used in the flaps system.
>
> My cuts are never straight, they leave many burrs and the look of the
> final piece is not good.
>
> I dont have a band saw, Im using a hack saw and sometimes a cutting
> disc in a Dremell tool.
>
> Can someone point me out the best method and tool to cut UHMV blocks,
> please.
>
> Thanks
>
> Carlos
>
> *
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard McBride <rick.mcbride(at)me.com> |
I've used this system from Hawk Labeling on three airplanes. With the cost of
the machine and the heat shrink tubing it's certainly not the least expensive
option. But it produces an exceptionally nice wire labels that looks very professional
and are easy to produce and read.
http://www.hawklabeling.com/store/department.php?cPath=3_495
Rick
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 1:40 AM, bob88 wrote:
>
>
> Anyone out there have a good system or product for labeling wires. I'm starting
to lose track of which goes where...
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415805#415805
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
I bought white heat-shrink and wrote the info on before shrinking. Use
the ultra fine sharpie. In places where the wire was smaller than the
heated shrink I put on a couple layers of blue painters tape. I have a
couple sizes of drift pins/nail sets that I used to hold the heat shrink
while marking.
Linn
On 12/18/2013 1:40 AM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Anyone out there have a good system or product for labeling wires. I'm starting
to lose track of which goes where...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415805#415805
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
I use white, blue and yellow heat shrink tubing, write the label on the
tubing with a sharpie and then shrink. The writing shrinks down with the
tubing and is very legible. It actually looks cool, (like how did you
write so small?!?).
The color of the tubing can be coded as well. Yellow is power from CB to
switch, Blue is power from switch to devise, as an example.
Using a sharpie makes a very permanent label, and if you use the correct
size tubing, the label is difficult to slide off the wire, but can be
slid down to the terminal after crimping. Initially shrink the label
back about six inches so it won=99t slide off until you final trim
the wire, then move it down to the terminal.
Been doing it this way for many years and the labels still look like the
day they were done.
Chris Hukill
finishing up wiring and getting ready to hang the motor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
The sharpie method is quick and easy, as others are describing. Works
great. One thing about every label printer I've used is that they waste a
lot of tubing. I buy white tubing on a reel and just snip each =8Bpi
ece as
needed.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:40 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Anyone out there have a good system or product for labeling wires. I'm
> starting to lose track of which goes where...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415805#415805
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Pump & Filter for sale |
| From: | Karol Hansen <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com> |
Thanks to all, just to let you know the pump and filter are sold.
Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
At 10:40 PM 12/17/2013 Tuesday, you wrote:
>
>Anyone out there have a good system or product for labeling wires. I'm starting
to lose track of which goes where...
I use this product and love it:
<http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=2273&category=9044&log=173811&row=1>http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=2273&category=9044&log=173811&row=1
Attached are a few samples of what they look like in action.
Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Matt:
Your labels look great but you didn't mention what you use to do them...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415828#415828
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Check out this web page from my RV-8 building site. All the det's are there:
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=2273&category=9044&log=173811&row=1
Matt Dralle
At 10:27 AM 12/18/2013 Wednesday, you wrote:
>
>Matt:
>Your labels look great but you didn't mention what you use to do them...
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
I bought a gadget called a Bee3. It was pretty cheap and easy to use with nice
results, but I do have probably $50 into the cartridges.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415860#415860
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mds4878" <mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com> |
I use a BRADY BMP21 label printer that sells for around 200.00.
With it you can print wire marker sleeves that slide on the wire and shrink
with heat. They have 4 sizes and you can also buy 3 sizes of flat label
tape. The system works great.
--------
RV-10 #40447
Fuselage almost done.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415866#415866
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Matt,
You should be ashamed [Laughing] Putting on photos so big that we have to scroll
left to right to read even one sentence.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415872#415872
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
John,
You just need a larger monitor and/or phone! :^)
Bob
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2013, at 3:37 PM, "johngoodman" wrote:
Matt,
You should be ashamed [Laughing] Putting on photos so big that we have to scroll
left to right to read even one sentence.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415872#415872
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Yeah, you're totally right, John. I feel guilty! I was going to use my normal
scaled versions but the detail of the lettering wasn't good enough to show them
off. So I took the full-resolution versions and just cropped down to the detail
I wanted. Trouble is, those were STILL too huge! Darn that 36MP Nikon
D800! :-)
Matt
At 12:37 PM 12/19/2013 Thursday, you wrote:
>
>Matt,
>You should be ashamed [Laughing] Putting on photos so big that we have to scroll
left to right to read even one sentence.
>John
>
>--------
>#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Windshield fairing |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Does anyone have an opinion and/or experience with the Blue Skunk windshield fairing?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415925#415925
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Windshield fairing |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I considered it for a long time. I ultimately decided to stick with the
plans. Two reasons. The windshield is already bonded on 3 sides, meaning it
cannot be removed without a complete rework of the canopy lip and the other
reason is that a metal fairing on the bottom means drilling for a bunch of
rivets that you would have to drill out for replacement and the plane would
look more like a typical spam can. So windshield replacement is going to
require both cleaning out old canopy lip and smoothing to take new glass,
and removing the fiberglass fairing and making a new one isn't going to be
nearly as hard the 2nd time around. I don't plan on being able to
physically fly as long as the original windshield should last, absent
physical damage, so I decided to stay with the plans.
On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 10:53 AM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Does anyone have an opinion and/or experience with the Blue Skunk
> windshield fairing?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415925#415925
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | oil filter and B&C alternator |
Has anyone used a B&C stby alternator on the vacuum pad with an angle
oil filter? I need to know if there is an engine mount clearance issue,
and if so, what thickness spacers are needed to make it all fit.
Chris Hukill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LEON EVERETT <leeverett(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | oil filter and B&C alternator |
I have the B and C standby alternator and the B and C oil filter adaptor. N
o clearance issues. Leon Everett
From: cjhukill(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: oil filter and B&C alternator
Date: Fri=2C 20 Dec 2013 16:42:07 -0800
Has anyone used a B&C stby alternator on the vacuum pad with an angle
oil filter? I need to know if there is an engine mount clearance issue=2C a
nd if
so=2C what thickness spacers are needed to make it all fit.
Chris Hukill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil filter and B&C alternator |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
You can do it. Call B&C and they will specify the spacers needed to fit the -
10.
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 7:42 PM, "Chris Hukill" wrote:
>
> Has anyone used a B&C stby alternator on the vacuum pad with an angle oil f
ilter? I need to know if there is an engine mount clearance issue, and if so
, what thickness spacers are needed to make it all fit.
> Chris Hukill
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | oil filter and B&C alternator |
I have angled oil filter. Fits fine but if it wasn't angled it would not fi
t!
From: leeverett(at)msn.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: oil filter and B&C alternator
Date: Fri=2C 20 Dec 2013 18:56:04 -0600
I have the B and C standby alternator and the B and C oil filter adaptor. N
o clearance issues. Leon Everett
From: cjhukill(at)cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: oil filter and B&C alternator
Date: Fri=2C 20 Dec 2013 16:42:07 -0800
Has anyone used a B&C stby alternator on the vacuum pad with an angle
oil filter? I need to know if there is an engine mount clearance issue=2C a
nd if
so=2C what thickness spacers are needed to make it all fit.
Chris Hukill
et=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
ks.com" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
rget=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
rget=_blank>www.mypilotstore.com
=_blank>www.mrrace.com
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ank>http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil filter and B&C alternator |
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
Sounds like most have had no problems. However, I could not make it work. I have
the B&C 20 Amp Stby Alternator on the vacuum pad and I could not find an adapter
that would permit me to mount the oil filter. I tried various spacers and
adapters from B&C and one or two other vendors, to no avail. My engine is a C4B5,
so that might be the difference. The good news is, I decided to bite the
bullet and purchase and install the Airwolf remote oil filter. I mounted it on
the lower RH firewall. Sure makes for easy, mess free, oil filter changes. I
am glad it turned out that way.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415945#415945
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil filter and B&C alternator |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
I have a C4B5 and I had no issues getting it to work out. I have the angle o
il adapter and the B&C vacuum pad SD20. I think the spacer I used was 3/4".
If you look on their web page under gear driven alternators and SD20, you'
ll find the RV-10 specific info.
http://www.bandc.biz/extensionforsd-20forrv10homebuilt.aspx
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 9:19 PM, "dmaib(at)me.com" wrote:
>
>
> Sounds like most have had no problems. However, I could not make it work. I
have the B&C 20 Amp Stby Alternator on the vacuum pad and I could not find a
n adapter that would permit me to mount the oil filter. I tried various spac
ers and adapters from B&C and one or two other vendors, to no avail. My engi
ne is a C4B5, so that might be the difference. The good news is, I decided t
o bite the bullet and purchase and install the Airwolf remote oil filter. I m
ounted it on the lower RH firewall. Sure makes for easy, mess free, oil filt
er changes. I am glad it turned out that way.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
> Transition Trainer
> New Smyrna Beach, FL
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415945#415945
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Extended Tankage |
HI,=0A=0ATo those who have converted their leading edges to fully wet can y
ou please advise what changes you made to the structure, if any, and if any
one has had the final result structurally tested/analysed?- I know here i
n Oz a few people have added extra tankage to the outboard leading edge (15
Gal and that has been structurally tested) but I know of no one who has gon
e for the full 30 Gal.=0A=0AJohn Nys obviously did this with the first cust
omer built RV-10 but he appears to have disappeared without trace.=0A=0AWit
h best wishes and Seasons Greetings,=0A=0ARodger=0AIn sun drenched Perth, W
A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil filter and B&C alternator |
| From: | Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> |
To make the combo work you need a spacer for both the alternator and oil
filter adapter. For the oil filter adapter it's the 1.4" spacer. For the
SD-20 it's a spacer kit that includes a replacement shear coupling. If you
buy the spacer kit at the same time as the SD-20 they probably swap out the
shear coupling before you get it. The SD-20 spacer is .75". I worked with
Bill (B&C) as the original installation of this combo on an RV-10.
Bob
On Friday, December 20, 2013, Michael Kraus wrote:
> I have a C4B5 and I had no issues getting it to work out. I have the
> angle oil adapter and the B&C vacuum pad SD20. I think the spacer I used
> was 3/4". If you look on their web page under gear driven alternators and
> SD20, you'll find the RV-10 specific info.
>
> http://www.bandc.biz/extensionforsd-20forrv10homebuilt.aspx
>
> -Mike Kraus
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 9:19 PM, "dmaib(at)me.com 'dmaib(at)me.com');>" 'dmaib(at)me.com');>> wrote:
>
> 'dmaib(at)me.com');>" 'dmaib(at)me.com');>>
>
> Sounds like most have had no problems. However, I could not make it work.
> I have the B&C 20 Amp Stby Alternator on the vacuum pad and I could not
> find an adapter that would permit me to mount the oil filter. I tried
> various spacers and adapters from B&C and one or two other vendors, to no
> avail. My engine is a C4B5, so that might be the difference. The good news
> is, I decided to bite the bullet and purchase and install the Airwolf
> remote oil filter. I mounted it on the lower RH firewall. Sure makes for
> easy, mess free, oil filter changes. I am glad it turned out that way.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
> Transition Trainer
> New Smyrna Beach, FL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415945#415945
>
>
> www.iltHELP www.homebuilthelp.comwwwbsp;--> <http://www.mrrace.com>http://www.matrp; -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin. <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ==========================; - The RV10-List Email
> Forumm/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: oil filter and B&C alternator |
| From: | "bcondrey" <condreyb(at)gmail.com> |
Just a little more explanation for those that may have had issues with this and/or
those trying to understand why the spacers.
To install the B&C oil filter adapter on an RV-10 you need to use their 1.4" spacer
regardless of whether or not you intend to also use their SD-20 alternator.
This adapter orients the filter so it's sticking up at about the 11 o'clock
position. The spacer is needed to shift the filter aft for clearance with the
top engine mount cross-member.
If you are installing an SD-20 with a stock oil filter adapter, it will bolt right
up to the stock vacuum pad. If however you've got their oil filter adapter,
one of the SD-20 case screw bosses sticks out far enough that the filter adapter
causes interference. So, the final solution Bill came up with was adding
a 3/4" spacer for the SD-20. This also required that the standard SD-20 shear
coupling get replaced with one that ties into account the extra 3/4". Bill
then made a kit for the SD-20 that includes the spacer, new shear coupling and
longer studs for the vacuum pad. As I said in my earlier post, I'm pretty sure
if you order the SD-20 and kit at the same time that they install the new
shear coupling but it's pretty simple to do yourself.
There are other brands of both angled oil filter adapters and vacuum pad alternators
but I don't know the specifics of what it takes to make all those permutations
work.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415969#415969
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Windshield fairing |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
bob88 wrote:
> Does anyone have an opinion and/or experience with the Blue Skunk windshield
fairing?
Yes, I used the M.L. Skunk Works windshield fairing. I got the impression that
Kelly thought that it's a whole windshield, it isn't. All it is, is a replacement
for the built up fiberglass fairing at the bottom of the windshield. It's
simply two partially shaped strips of aluminum that you rivet together and custom
shape to your windshield. With minimum use of a shrinker/stretcher I got a
great fit. As you fit, you will drill cleco holes to hold it in place. Once it's
the way you want, you can glue it to the windshield (I used Silpruf 2000)
and rivet it on. The real purpose of the Silpruf was to give it a good, black,
look on the inside.
It was easy to rivet if the panel is out. Just make sure the holes were drilled
in places not-too-close to anything else, so it's easy to get a bucking bar in
there.
When it comes time to paint, you just feather on some micro to hide it. I am very
pleased with the results and would definitely do it again. By the way, the
price is the same that I paid in 2009.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415973#415973
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Windshield fairing |
You mis-understood what I wrote (or meant to write).
I understand what it is, just an aluminum strip formed to enclose the
base of the windshield. It is individual choice as to whether you like
that appearance.
If you plan to cover the aluminum with micro to smooth out the
appearance, I'm not sure that you are saving a lot of work. I did the 10
layer fiberglass layup in about 4 stages. I will do final micro work
when our weather warms up a bit. Maybe 10-12 hours total work between
sanding and layup. There will still be glass/micro work around the sides
and top of the windshield as well as side windows.
So you probably can save 6-8 hours overall. Yes, I hate fiberglass work,
which made me consider the aluminum seriously. The glass fairing was not
as bad as I anticipated. Certainly much less than the canopy and doors.
So the pros are time savings and maybe slightly easier removal for
replacement windshield. I choose to hope I never have to replace the
windshield. Never have on the 2 certified aircraft I have owned for a
total 38 years.
Cons are cost and need to do riveting behind instrument panel, and maybe
perceived appearance.
On 12/21/2013 7:39 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
>
> bob88 wrote:
>> Does anyone have an opinion and/or experience with the Blue Skunk windshield
fairing?
>
> Yes, I used the M.L. Skunk Works windshield fairing. I got the impression that
Kelly thought that it's a whole windshield, it isn't. All it is, is a replacement
for the built up fiberglass fairing at the bottom of the windshield. It's
simply two partially shaped strips of aluminum that you rivet together and custom
shape to your windshield. With minimum use of a shrinker/stretcher I got
a great fit. As you fit, you will drill cleco holes to hold it in place. Once
it's the way you want, you can glue it to the windshield (I used Silpruf 2000)
and rivet it on. The real purpose of the Silpruf was to give it a good, black,
look on the inside.
> It was easy to rivet if the panel is out. Just make sure the holes were drilled
in places not-too-close to anything else, so it's easy to get a bucking bar
in there.
> When it comes time to paint, you just feather on some micro to hide it. I am
very pleased with the results and would definitely do it again. By the way, the
price is the same that I paid in 2009.
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415973#415973
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Rodger, I was in Perth back in March of 2011 - beautiful place.
Anyway, I feel I should comment on the extended tanks. I've seen a lot of them,
and I got the two dollar tour of John's right after he flew it to Sun 'n fun.
I would NOT do it. It was told to me that you need to be "very careful" taking
off with a full load of fuel, and that you definitely had to have them empty before
landing.
As far as the "tip tank" approach, I only know of people putting 7 or 8 gallons
per side. Frankly, I wouldn't even do that. I have seen one that had the tip
tank very close to the existing tank, to minimize the moment arm.
I'm very happy with a 60 gallon limit - so is my bladder. Just stop for gas.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415978#415978
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Windshield fairing |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Bob,
I'm sure you'll do what you want. Here is a photo I took during fit.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415979#415979
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/windshieldfit_170.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
Thanks John .. valuable comments!=0A=0ARodger=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, 21 De
cember 2013, 23:14, johngoodman wrote:=0A =0A-
=0A=0ARodger, I was in Perth back in March of 2011 - beautiful place.=0AAny
way, I feel I should comment on the extended tanks. I've seen a lot of them
, and I got the two dollar tour of John's right after he flew it to Sun 'n
fun.=0AI would NOT do it. It was told to me that you need to be "very caref
ul" taking off with a full load of fuel, and that you definitely had to hav
e them empty before landing.=0AAs far as the "tip tank" approach, I only kn
ow of people putting 7 or 8 gallons per side. Frankly, I wouldn't even do t
hat. I have seen one that had the tip tank very close to the existing tank,
to minimize the moment arm.=0A=0AI'm very happy with a 60 gallon limit - s
o is my bladder. Just stop for gas.=0A=0AJohn=0A=0A--------=0A#40572 Phase
One complete and flying.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Aht
tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415978#415978=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: oil filter and B&C alternator |
Another data point for general information: I have the B&C SD20
alternator and used the straight oil filter adapter that comes with
standard Vans powerplant - the D4A5.
The difficulty of removing and installing filters is less than that I
had on my Maule so no problem there. It's easy to get a box wrench on
the end of the filter. I use the same length of angle vinyl flashing,
about 2" a side and 4' long, as a gutter to catch the drip as the filter
comes off. A one step foot stool is required to get over the top access
for the change. The angle filter mount looked attractive but I didn't
do it.
Installing the SD20 in the first place is a bear and I hopefully won't
have to replace it soon. I'm not sure that the difficulty changes with
the various oil filter adapters, spacers and such. There's one nut and
stud that is impossible to reach with any standard wrench. For about
$30, Snap-on sells a thin crows foot wrench specifically for this
particular stud & nut. Hmmmm.... a single use $30 tool, let me see if I
can borrow one.
Experienced mechanics seem familiar with the difficulties around this
vacuum pad stud and nut so I asked around with no joy. My local guy
says he "turns the nut by using the end of a straight screwdriver".
Torque values? A well calibrated mallet and screw driver seems to be
the key for him. So I bought the wrench and with difficulty installed
the SD20 and torqued it properly. No big deal, never looked back.
All is well 350 hours later. Only problem discovered 300 hours in was
the lead to the SD20 fatigued and broke off when I gave it a tug during
my second conditional. Make sure you allow for an extra large relief
loop in the lead because the geometry of the engine mount and SD20
location results in a surprising amount of movement during operation.
Bill "found out the '10 can easily transport 2 Labs and a carrier with 2
more dogs" Watson
On 12/20/2013 7:42 PM, Chris Hukill wrote:
> Has anyone used a B&C stby alternator on the vacuum pad with an angle
> oil filter? I need to know if there is an engine mount clearance
> issue, and if so, what thickness spacers are needed to make it all fit.
> Chris Hukill
> *
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
After recent trip to Hawaii, I was fantasizing about flying the RV10 down to the
islands. I figure that to cover the approximately 2050 miles from the SFO area
to Hilo (the closest airport to the mainland) that you would need 14 hours
of fuel to be safe or about 150 gallons (900#) of fuel at economy cruise. with
my lightweight RV10 (1620#) and two 180# pilots that would put me 200# over
gross with no food, water or emergency equipment and a 20# aux. fuel tank. One
pilot might be can do, but still over gross.
I like the idea of an internal fuel tank. The obvious issues are CG, safety, sloshing
in turbulence, and maneuvering speed. Except for safety, all of these issues
are easily managed. I like the idea of a removable internal L/R tank. You
are not flying these flights all of the time and the RV10 has reasonably long
legs with the regular 60 gallon tanks. Baffles can prevent sloshing in turbulence.
With the internal tank, venting can be done outside, and the pilot can
control the plumbing/flow in flight. Plus it can be easily installed and removed
from a secure position the back seat.
Just my thoughts, but I invite your comments!
--------
See you OSH '13
Q/B - flying 3 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415990#415990
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
If you're really serious about extra fuel, check this out...
http://www.turtlepac.com/en/photo-gallery/aircraft-ferry-tanks.html
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415998#415998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
Bill Harrelson is a neighbor of mine here at Dogwood Airpark. Five of the
seven ferry tanks he used for his Guam to Jacksonville non-stop hop where
built from carbon fiber prepreg board and carbon fiber for the joints to
exactly match the available space inside the cabin. The two big collapsible
fuel blatters were on top of two of the carbon fiber tanks. The plumbing
and fuel manifolds were a work of art.
If I ever wanted to do extended fuel in the RV-10 (which I don't) I would go
the same way - tailored carbine fiber tanks fitted into the real seat foot
wells, simple transfer pump and plumbing with a common vent overboard. I'd
not consider the collapsible fuel blatter.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Extended Tankage
-->
If you're really serious about extra fuel, check this out...
http://www.turtlepac.com/en/photo-gallery/aircraft-ferry-tanks.html
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415998#415998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
We see this Australian guy at Oshkosh every year selling these
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Extended Tankage
> From: johngoodman(at)earthlink.net
> Date: Sat=2C 21 Dec 2013 10:32:52 -0800
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> If you're really serious about extra fuel=2C check this out...
>
> http://www.turtlepac.com/en/photo-gallery/aircraft-ferry-tanks.html
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415998#415998
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
Thanks everyone for your comments to date.=0A=0AJohn, I was aware of the Tu
rtlepac products and indeed their Drum 66 would seem ideal for the back sea
t except it would mean refuelling within the cabin - the spec they supplied
me several years ago confirmed that the filler tube was too short to route
out of the cabin and I didn't want to alter the cabin top any further to i
nsert some sort of pass through/adaptor for the filler head.--My guess
is that they would extend the filler tube if asked.- However, it's-very
simple-to either use it to refresh the main tanks or as a direct feed to
the engine.=0A- =0AI became seriously-interested in extending the capa
city when I saw what Patrick did with his aircraft and heard his reasoning
- a very nice job it is too but don't tell him - and became inspired when I
read of Ian Pullin's magnificent effort when he flew his RV-6 (or possibly
7) from Jandakot (Perth's GA airport - busiest a/p-in OZ) to the UK and
back earlier this year.- I remember at the time-of its first flight thi
nking-that John Nys' conversion must have been the work of-a mad man.
- However seven, almost 8 years later, here I am actively considering doi
ng something similar. -We enjoy the delight of almost always having perfe
ct flying weather but at the cost of huge distances between alternates.-
This is-the virtual total opposite of the US situation where you have an
alternate every 50 miles but also-what can be pretty dire weather.- In
the Australian situation, this has the effect that unless you are flying up
the populated East Coast
most destinations are near the end of the 10's cruising range.--Our cl
osest way to Asia, for example,-is Port Hedland to Denpasar which-at-
723 nm is right at the limit for a 10 (and then with little reserve) and en
route it's all water full of large scary beasties as well as some small ex
ceptionally scary ones (but they're seasonal!).- Thus to use the full uti
lity of this craft it really needs extra fuel.- It's worth noting that th
e Brazilians ship their factory built 10's with 90 gallons capacity standar
d.- Most of my flying will necessarily be over remote areas so safety and
fuel reserves are my number one priorities.=0A=0AI am still hoping that so
me one who has real world experience will chime in about the fully wet lead
ing edge.- My plan would be to add separate 30 gallon tanks in place of t
he standard outboard leading edge - I don't know how others have done it bu
t I suspect they have created a single 60 gallon tank which I would see as
not optimum.-- As an aside I believe there is someone in Victoria who o
ffers tank conversions so it would be nice to hear from them.=0A=0AThanking
you all,=0A=0ABest Wishes,=0A=0ARodger--=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, 22 Dece
mber 2013, 9:19, Danny Riggs wrote:=0A =0A =0AWe see t
his Australian guy at Oshkosh every year selling these=0A=0A> Subject: RV10
-List: Re: Extended Tankage=0A> From: johngoodman(at)earthlink.net=0A> Date: S
RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" =0A>
=0A> If you're really serious about extra fuel, check this out...=0A> =0A>
http://www.turtlepac.com/en/photo-gallery/aircraft-ferry-tanks.html=0A>
=0A> John=0A> =0A> --------=0A> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.=0A>
=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.mat
ronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415998#415998=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A
========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
| From: | Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Rodger
Robert Herring from Mildura, Victoria engineered the extended tank leading e
dge tanks that I have incorporated into my aircraft.
Robert modified my wings (fitted pressed access panels to my bottom skins to
enable me to access the faucet transfer pumps and isolating solenoid) and h
as done all the engineering calculations.
Rob has also designed and built two experimental aircraft of his own design a
nd is a Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.
The reserve tanks hold 60 litres each (three ribs wide) in the leading edge t
anks, which attach to the wing just like the main tanks using Z-attach brack
ets. We modified the outboard leading edge and cut down a full size inboard
tank leading edge and I fabricated and built the tanks, as Rob hated Prosea
l. I have installed a float sensor in each tank, vents, lockable fuel caps a
nd fuel drains.
As indicated by Rodger they'll be used for going a long way from home and ho
pefully returning on my own fuel, rather than paying some crazy price like $
5.00 per litre for fuel at some remote out station, or having to purchase a f
ull 44 Gallon drum, regardless of the fact that you might not be able to use
the entire 45 Gallons based on limited fuel tank capacity.
Oz is big, fuel is few and far between in the outback and when it is availab
le, you'll pay through the nose for it!
Warm regards and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all.
Safe skies and tailwinds.
Patrick
> On 22 Dec 2013, at 18:55, Rodger Todd wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for your comments to date.
>
> John, I was aware of the Turtlepac products and indeed their Drum 66 would
seem ideal for the back seat except it would mean refuelling within the cab
in - the spec they supplied me several years ago confirmed that the filler t
ube was too short to route out of the cabin and I didn't want to alter the c
abin top any further to insert some sort of pass through/adaptor for the fil
ler head. My guess is that they would extend the filler tube if asked. How
ever, it's very simple to either use it to refresh the main tanks or as a di
rect feed to the engine.
>
> I became seriously interested in extending the capacity when I saw what Pa
trick did with his aircraft and heard his reasoning - a very nice job it is t
oo but don't tell him - and became inspired when I read of Ian Pullin's magn
ificent effort when he flew his RV-6 (or possibly 7) from Jandakot (Perth's G
A airport - busiest a/p in OZ) to the UK and back earlier this year. I reme
mber at the time of its first flight thinking that John Nys' conversion must
have been the work of a mad man. However seven, almost 8 years later, here
I am actively considering doing something similar. We enjoy the delight of
almost always having perfect flying weather but at the cost of huge distanc
es between alternates. This is the virtual total opposite of the US situati
on where you have an alternate every 50 miles but also what can be pretty di
re weather. In the Australian situation, this has the effect that unless yo
u are flying up the populated East Coast most destinations are near the end o
f the 10's cruising range. Our closest way to Asia, for example, is Port He
dland to Denpasar which at 723 nm is right at the limit for a 10 (and then w
ith little reserve) and en route it's all water full of large scary beasties
as well as some small exceptionally scary ones (but they're seasonal!). Th
us to use the full utility of this craft it really needs extra fuel. It's w
orth noting that the Brazilians ship their factory built 10's with 90 gallon
s capacity standard. Most of my flying will necessarily be over remote area
s so safety and fuel reserves are my number one priorities.
>
> I am still hoping that some one who has real world experience will chime i
n about the fully wet leading edge. My plan would be to add separate 30 gal
lon tanks in place of the standard outboard leading edge - I don't know how o
thers have done it but I suspect they have created a single 60 gallon tank w
hich I would see as not optimum. As an aside I believe there is someone in
Victoria who offers tank conversions so it would be nice to hear from them.
>
> Thanking you all,
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Rodger
>
>
> On Sunday, 22 December 2013, 9:19, Danny Riggs wrote:
> We see this Australian guy at Oshkosh every year selling these
>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Extended Tankage
> > From: johngoodman(at)earthlink.net
> > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:32:52 -0800
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> >
t>
> >
> > If you're really serious about extra fuel, check this out...
> >
> > http://www.turtlepac.com/en/photo-gallery/aircraft-ferry-tanks.html
> >
> > John
> >
> > --------
> > #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415998#415998
> >
> >
> >
> >======================
> &gr to ===============
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.aeroww.buildersbooks.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">h
ttp://www.buildethelp.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.ho
mebuilthelp.com= * Race Consulting http://www.matronics.avigator?RV10-
List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics=====
==================
> forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.ma
t===================
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extended Tankage |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I am most entertained at the response to my fantasy flights across the Pacific
in my RV10.
I have received several private communications on the subject. One person has an
auto racing style plastic fuel tank in the back of his RV10 (removable) and
auto racing style quick-connect-dripless connectors. Several people have mentioned
that the standard Van's fuel valve has a 4th position that has a plug in
it on the stock set up. This fact, we all should know from our annual inspections.
Several RV10's have tip tanks fitted. There is also an RV10 out there with a 90
gallon internal tank fitted to the back seat and back seat foot well - wow! I
was told that it is well baffled and fitted close to the front seats in deference
to the CG. They made a mock up first to make sure that the tank would fit
in the door. Lots of anchoring calculations. The life raft goes on top of the
tank.
Hilo here I come. Goodbye to those overpriced flights on American, United and Hawaiian
airlines.
--------
See you OSH '13
Q/B - flying 3 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416157#416157
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder lock possible? |
| From: | "Mike Whisky" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Hi,
I posted this at VAF as well but would like to get your opinion as well.
I did a couple days ago a stability test flight to check how the aircraft behaves
when you apply full rudder in climb, cruise and descent with full flaps.
In climb at about 100 kt with wings level I applied slowly more and more right
rudder until I hit the limit. that process took a couple of seconds about approximately
an inch before the limit the rudder got soft and locked aerodynamically.
I immediately gave opposite rudder to go straight again.
My question now is if other experienced this as well, would it come back and I
just need to wait a bit? I guess one is expected to give full rudder more swiftly
and check the behavior then. If you apply it slowly the aircraft is at so
much slip that the bigger part of the rudder is covered by the VS near the end
of its range and only the counter balance gets the airstream, just a guess though.
I replicated this about four times left and right in cruise and climb. Interesting
enough that in landing config at 70kt it did not appear but it might be that
I pressed the rudder more swiftly du to the speed loss when you yaw the aircraft.
Regards
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416194#416194
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Guys
Those of you who used the Infinity (military type) stick grip, do you
remember how much tube did you cut to shorten your stick?
And what did you use to adapt the stick grip internal diameter (1") to the
stick tube outside diameter (7/8")?
Regards
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
Assuming you are staying with Van's panel, cut the stick such that the Infin
ity grip is as low as it can go (as in the bottom of the grip is touching th
e weld for the curved portion of the stick).
I got the adapter from Infinity - it came with the grip.
Carl
> On Dec 25, 2013, at 3:23 PM, "Carlos Trigo" wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Those of you who used the Infinity (military type) stick grip, do you reme
mber how much tube did you cut to shorten your stick?
>
> And what did you use to adapt the stick grip internal diameter (1=9D
) to the stick tube outside diameter (7/8=9D)?
>
> Regards
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
I don't remember how much was cut off, but infinity sells an adapter/spacer t
o make up the difference in diameter.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 25, 2013, at 3:23 PM, "Carlos Trigo" wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Those of you who used the Infinity (military type) stick grip, do you reme
mber how much tube did you cut to shorten your stick?
>
> And what did you use to adapt the stick grip internal diameter (1=9D
) to the stick tube outside diameter (7/8=9D)?
>
> Regards
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | RV-10 ride in California |
Hi
My partner in the RV-10 is now in California, till Jan,4th, and is willing
to have a ride in an RV-10.
Can someone from the San Francisco area, or not very far from there, who
could take him for a ride, please contact me by email.
Thanks
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
I think you will find that you should not take off the last 1-1.5" of the
vertical part of the stick, so there is something to support the grip. The
other aspect is that you need to make an elevator stop in the tail section
to limit nose down elevator travel to Van's minimum of around 20 degrees.
They allow a tolerance to 25 degrees, but that will have the stick grip
hitting the panel no matter how short you make it. Other choice is to have
the stick curved section bent to a smaller radius, but you are talking
about bending heat treated chrome moly tubing with powder coating on it, so
lots of ways to screw that up.
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote
:
> Guys
>
>
> Those of you who used the Infinity (military type) stick grip, do you
> remember how much tube did you cut to shorten your stick?
>
>
> And what did you use to adapt the stick grip internal diameter (1=94) to
the
> stick tube outside diameter (7/8=94)?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
>
>
> *
>
===========
m>
ldersbooks.com>
.com>
com>
om/contribution>
===========
onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
If you have an Aerosport panel, you'll want to cut it pretty short. I thin
k I have about an inch below the grip.
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 25, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> I don't remember how much was cut off, but infinity sells an adapter/space
r to make up the difference in diameter.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 25, 2013, at 3:23 PM, "Carlos Trigo" wrote
:
>>
>> Guys
>>
>> Those of you who used the Infinity (military type) stick grip, do you rem
ember how much tube did you cut to shorten your stick?
>>
>> And what did you use to adapt the stick grip internal diameter (1=9D
) to the stick tube outside diameter (7/8=9D)?
>>
>> Regards
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">www.aeroelectric.com
>> books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com
>> quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> quot;">www.mypilotstore.com
>> ">www.mrrace.com
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
I used the Tosten grip (which I like a lot for a couple of reasons - the
Infinity seems great too). My panel is roughly standard. The stick with
the grip definitely interfered with the panel.
I cut it a bit, can't say how much, but more was required.
I bent the sticks in a press to increase the standard curvature. Using
wood blocks it was pretty easy to do but clearly one could go too far
and perhaps start to buckle the sticks. Going slow and checking the
clearance until it just cleared worked great. It's not hard to do. I
requires a simple hydraulic press (think HF). I went and used a
neighbor's press.
Bill
On 12/25/2013 3:23 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Those of you who used the Infinity (military type) stick grip, do you
> remember how much tube did you cut to shorten your stick?
>
> And what did you use to adapt the stick grip internal diameter (1") to
> the stick tube outside diameter (7/8")?
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
>
> *
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder lock possible? |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
Mike Whisky wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I posted this at VAF as well but would like to get your opinion as well.
>
> I did a couple days ago a stability test flight to check how the aircraft behaves
when you apply full rudder in climb, cruise and descent with full flaps.
>
> In climb at about 100 kt with wings level I applied slowly more and more right
rudder until I hit the limit. that process took a couple of seconds about approximately
an inch before the limit the rudder got soft and locked aerodynamically.
I immediately gave opposite rudder to go straight again.
>
> My question now is if other experienced this as well, would it come back and
I just need to wait a bit? I guess one is expected to give full rudder more swiftly
and check the behavior then. If you apply it slowly the aircraft is at so
much slip that the bigger part of the rudder is covered by the VS near the end
of its range and only the counter balance gets the airstream, just a guess
though.
>
> I replicated this about four times left and right in cruise and climb. Interesting
enough that in landing config at 70kt it did not appear but it might be
that I pressed the rudder more swiftly du to the speed loss when you yaw the aircraft.
>
> Regards
> Mike
I did not test that flight regime. Imagine if one flap departed and how your little
ailerons would counter the roll. It happened in a Cherokee one time. He rolled
and ended up losing a wing too.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416208#416208
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Thanks for your answers.
I just ordered the adapter from ACS, and now I confirmed that I should cut
the tube in order to avoid the grip to hit the panel, that was what I
expected.
Thanks
Carlos
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: quinta-feira, 26 de Dezembro de 2013 00:09
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stick grip
I think you will find that you should not take off the last 1-1.5" of the
vertical part of the stick, so there is something to support the grip. The
other aspect is that you need to make an elevator stop in the tail section
to limit nose down elevator travel to Van's minimum of around 20 degrees.
They allow a tolerance to 25 degrees, but that will have the stick grip
hitting the panel no matter how short you make it. Other choice is to have
the stick curved section bent to a smaller radius, but you are talking about
bending heat treated chrome moly tubing with powder coating on it, so lots
of ways to screw that up.
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
Guys
Those of you who used the Infinity (military type) stick grip, do you
remember how much tube did you cut to shorten your stick?
And what did you use to adapt the stick grip internal diameter (1") to the
stick tube outside diameter (7/8")?
Regards
Carlos
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder lock possible? |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Geeez, Mike, that's like practicing to bleed....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416215#416215
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder lock possible? |
| From: | "Mike Whisky" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
This is part of the test flight regime. I know one would not be in this situation
in normal operations however, I still believe that the test flight program
is exactly built to understand the aircraft behavior within the design envelope.
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416220#416220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder lock possible? |
I've seen this in my plane and a customer's -10. He described it to me
first. He's a very careful and conscientious pilot. Also lots of acro and
formation.
We did this straight-and-level at moderate IAS. It's a little surprising at
first but so far it's been completely manageable. If you expect it, it's a
non-event. Just opposite rudder and it unsticks. I haven't tried it in a
climb.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Mike Whisky wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I posted this at VAF as well but would like to get your opinion as well.
>
> I did a couple days ago a stability test flight to check how the aircraft
> behaves when you apply full rudder in climb, cruise and descent with full
> flaps.
>
> In climb at about 100 kt with wings level I applied slowly more and more
> right rudder until I hit the limit. that process took a couple of seconds
> about approximately an inch before the limit the rudder got soft and locked
> aerodynamically. I immediately gave opposite rudder to go straight again.
>
> My question now is if other experienced this as well, would it come back
> and I just need to wait a bit? I guess one is expected to give full rudder
> more swiftly and check the behavior then. If you apply it slowly the
> aircraft is at so much slip that the bigger part of the rudder is covered
> by the VS near the end of its range and only the counter balance gets the
> airstream, just a guess though.
>
> I replicated this about four times left and right in cruise and climb.
> Interesting enough that in landing config at 70kt it did not appear but it
> might be that I pressed the rudder more swiftly du to the speed loss when
> you yaw the aircraft.
>
> Regards
> Mike
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416194#416194
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 ride in California |
| From: | pilotdds <pilotdds(at)aol.com> |
I am in sck could pick him up at lvk this weekend-Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Wed, Dec 25, 2013 2:52 pm
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 ride in California
Hi
My partner in the RV-10 is now in California, till Jan,4th, and is willing
to have a ride in an RV-10.
Can someone from the San Francisco area, or not very far from there, who co
uld take him for a ride, please contact me by email.
Thanks
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder lock possible? |
| From: | "Mike Whisky" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Thanks Dave,
I guess that most RV-10 would react that way if they are built to plans and the
rudder will stop at the control stops. As said before it was easy to get her
straight with opposite rudder. I will repeat the test with a faster full rudder
deflection and see if this changes anything.
Regards
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416243#416243
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe McKervey" <mckervey(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: 1920 OILFIELD DODGE |
----- Original Message -----
From: Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:50 PM
Subject: Fwd: 1920 OILFIELD DODGE
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: 1920 OILFIELD DODGE
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 14:46:22 -0500
From: Jim Johnson <jimjohnson100(at)icloud.com>
To: Johnson Jim D
Don't make 'em like they used to!
How do you think a modern car would stack up against this one?
Oilfield Dodge 1920- Unblievable
Who needs four wheel drive anyway??
Oilfield Dodge 1920- Unbelievable
And less than 100 years ago....
Oilfield Dodge 1920
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/27/13
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aftermarket wingtip lenses |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
I seem to remember someone mentioning aftermarket wingtip lenses. Can someone point
me in the right direction?
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416532#416532
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket wingtip lenses |
http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/products/RV%252d10-Clear-Wing-tip-lenses-%28pair%29.html
no need to trim and better quality than what Vans has in kit.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: woxofswa
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Aftermarket wingtip lenses
I seem to remember someone mentioning aftermarket wingtip lenses. Can
someone point me in the right direction?
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416532#416532
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket wingtip lenses |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
Ordered thanks!
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416535#416535
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Hi all, I mounted my Desser tires and Leakstop tubes today on my Grove main
wheels and Matco nose wheel. A couple of observations/questions.
The valve stem on the nose wheel tube has a washer and nut on it tight to
the tube. Matco's drawing doesn't really show where the washer should go,
but as far as I can tell, it has to go between the tube and the nut which
fits in the nose wheel slot. Has anyone else come across this?
2nd observation. The Grove main wheels have nylon lock nuts which I
replaced when I torqued the wheel bolts. The Matco wheel has metal lock
nuts. I would think that due to heat from the brakes the main wheels
should have the metal lock nuts. Does this seem reasonable or of no
consequence?
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
Can't help with Q1 but for Q2: I have seen plastic lock nuts on brake
calipers melted due to brake heat. So metal nuts are called for on the
calipers. If you mean the nuts holding the wheel halves together, I'd
expect much less issue there, but if you're concerned then go with metal.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Rick Lark wrote:
> Hi all, I mounted my Desser tires and Leakstop tubes today on my Grove
> main wheels and Matco nose wheel. A couple of observations/questions.
>
> The valve stem on the nose wheel tube has a washer and nut on it tight to
> the tube. Matco's drawing doesn't really show where the washer should go,
> but as far as I can tell, it has to go between the tube and the nut which
> fits in the nose wheel slot. Has anyone else come across this?
>
> 2nd observation. The Grove main wheels have nylon lock nuts which I
> replaced when I torqued the wheel bolts. The Matco wheel has metal lock
> nuts. I would think that due to heat from the brakes the main wheels
> should have the metal lock nuts. Does this seem reasonable or of no
> consequence?
>
> Thx, Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
[quote="larkrv10(at)gmail.com"]Hi all, I mounted my Desser tires and Leakstop tubes
today on my Grove main wheels and Matco nose wheel. A couple of observations/questions.
The valve stem on the nose wheel tube has a washer and nut on it tight to the tube.
Matco's drawing doesn't really show where the washer should go, but as far
as I can tell, it has to go between the tube and the nut which fits in the nose
wheel slot. Has anyone else come across this?
2nd observation. The Grove main wheels have nylon lock nuts which I replaced when
I torqued the wheel bolts. The Matco wheel has metal lock nuts. I would think
that due to heat from the brakes the main wheels should have the metal lock
nuts. Does this seem reasonable or of no consequence?
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
> [b]
I threw the nut and washer in the trash.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416582#416582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv10 #40458 for sale |
Still available??? Can you send pictures and details and location?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 4:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Rv10 #40458 for sale
Hey folks - one of the nicest and best equipped 10s is for sale. I won't be
flying any more for health reasons. Drop me a line for an extensive
description and pics.
John Ackerman. Johnag5b(at)cableone.net. 928-308-0471
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rv10 #40458 for sale |
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
Hi folks
I have taken an earnest money deposit on N8863. I dont anticipate problems with
the sale, but will let you know if they occur.
Best wishes
John Ackerman
On Jan 9, 2014, at 7:37 AM, Bill and Tami Britton wrote
>
> Still available??? Can you send pictures and details and location?
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
> To: "Rv10 Listf"
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 4:01 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Rv10 #40458 for sale
>
>
>
> Hey folks - one of the nicest and best equipped 10s is for sale. I won't be flying
any more for health reasons. Drop me a line for an extensive description
and pics.
> John Ackerman. Johnag5b(at)cableone.net. 928-308-0471
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rv10 #40458 for sale |
| From: | David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com> |
Speaking of -10s for sale, what are well equipped -10s going for these days?
Just wondering.
On Jan 10, 2014, at 5:29 PM, John Ackerman wrote:
>
> Hi folks
> I have taken an earnest money deposit on N8863. I dont anticipate problems with
the sale, but will let you know if they occur.
> Best wishes
> John Ackerman
>
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2014, at 7:37 AM, Bill and Tami Britton wrote
>
>>
>> Still available??? Can you send pictures and details and location?
>>
>> Bill
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
>> To: "Rv10 Listf"
>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 4:01 PM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Rv10 #40458 for sale
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey folks - one of the nicest and best equipped 10s is for sale. I won't be
flying any more for health reasons. Drop me a line for an extensive description
and pics.
>> John Ackerman. Johnag5b(at)cableone.net. 928-308-0471
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rv10 #40458 for sale |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
It seems like everything is listing in the $200k range these days. The used prices
have gone up considerably. I don't know if they are selling, but that is what
people are asking.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Jan 10, 2014, at 8:42 PM, David Leikam wrote:
>
> Speaking of -10s for sale, what are well equipped -10s going for these days?
> Just wondering.
>
> On Jan 10, 2014, at 5:29 PM, John Ackerman wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi folks
>> I have taken an earnest money deposit on N8863. I dont anticipate problems with
the sale, but will let you know if they occur.
>> Best wishes
>> John Ackerman
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2014, at 7:37 AM, Bill and Tami Britton wrote
>>
>>>
>>> Still available??? Can you send pictures and details and location?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
>>> To: "Rv10 Listf"
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 4:01 PM
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Rv10 #40458 for sale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey folks - one of the nicest and best equipped 10s is for sale. I won't be
flying any more for health reasons. Drop me a line for an extensive description
and pics.
>>> John Ackerman. Johnag5b(at)cableone.net. 928-308-0471
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rv10 #40458 for sale |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Amazing. I fear I will not get enough for my old Mooney to even pay for my
IO-540. Old certified plane market seems real soft between aging airframes,
aging avionics and super expensive fuel.
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Jesse Saint wrote
:
>
> It seems like everything is listing in the $200k range these days. The
> used prices have gone up considerably. I don't know if they are selling,
> but that is what people are asking.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Jan 10, 2014, at 8:42 PM, David Leikam wrote:
>
> >
> > Speaking of -10=92s for sale, what are well equipped -10=92s going for
these
> days?
> > Just wondering.
> >
> > On Jan 10, 2014, at 5:29 PM, John Ackerman
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi folks
> >> I have taken an earnest money deposit on N8863. I don=92t anticipate
> problems with the sale, but will let you know if they occur.
> >> Best wishes
> >> John Ackerman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 9, 2014, at 7:37 AM, Bill and Tami Britton
> wrote
> >>
> william(at)gbta.net>
> >>>
> >>> Still available??? Can you send pictures and details and location?
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
> >>> To: "Rv10 Listf"
> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 4:01 PM
> >>> Subject: RV10-List: Rv10 #40458 for sale
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hey folks - one of the nicest and best equipped 10s is for sale. I
> won't be flying any more for health reasons. Drop me a line for an
> extensive description and pics.
> >>> John Ackerman. Johnag5b(at)cableone.net. 928-308-0471
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB charging port
for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below the back seat
vent?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
I mounted my headset jacks on the tunnel covers between the seats. The
headsets will hang on my overhead plenum out of the way of people
boarding/exiting the plane. No charging ports though!!!
Linn
On 1/15/2014 12:48 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB charging
port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below the back seat
vent?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
whats wrong with the back seat vent areas? probably the best in my mind.
I put a aux jack (which I have yet to use) below one of the seats, would do
the same for a USB.
The hot tunnel top would really be the only other area to put headset jacks
and connections for easy access. the side panels below the vents is the best
for routing and connections. If its a tripping over them issue, move the
headset onto the seats. I have yet to have an issue with my 5yr old and
older passengers, when I move the headset into the corner and have the
passengers pull the headset from that area. Having it in the center would
cause issues in flight as we are moving things all over that area (food,
books, etc) from back to front and back.
-----Original Message-----
From: bob88
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:48 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Placement of phone jacks for back seats
Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB
charging port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below
the back seat vent?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
I fabricated a vertical plate below the vent. Not as subject to being
damaged. Allows padded armrest extending along the full horizontal shelf.
I'm going to down to the plane now - I'll try to remember to take a pic
or two.
B
On 1/15/2014 12:48 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB charging
port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below the back seat
vent?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
I installed mine on the flap rod covers, each side mounted close to the
tunnel side of each cover, one plug over the other. My thought was to not
have the jacks such that the headphone wires would pass over their laps or
get tangled if they tried to get out with the headphones still on. This is
also an easy place to route the connection wires via the tunnel.
Never had a rear seat passenger needing to charge anything. If on rare
instance I do I'll just have them use the panel jack.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 12:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Placement of phone jacks for back seats
Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB
charging port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below
the back seat vent?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
You must not carry kids (re the charging)....we use
the back seat charging ports all the time.
Tim
On 1/15/2014 12:15 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> I installed mine on the flap rod covers, each side mounted close to the
> tunnel side of each cover, one plug over the other. My thought was to not
> have the jacks such that the headphone wires would pass over their laps or
> get tangled if they tried to get out with the headphones still on. This is
> also an easy place to route the connection wires via the tunnel.
>
> Never had a rear seat passenger needing to charge anything. If on rare
> instance I do I'll just have them use the panel jack.
>
> Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
Mine are on the rear of the Aerosport Products center arm console.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2014, at 12:48 PM, "bob88" wrote:
Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB charging port
for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below the back seat
vent?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
So there was a thread, probably on Aeroelectric, regarding USB ports.
As I recall it was never brought to a conclusion.
What are y'all using for USB charging ports?
I have a cigarette port poorly located but I'd love to install a USB
port or two.
On 1/15/2014 2:40 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> You must not carry kids (re the charging)....we use
> the back seat charging ports all the time.
> Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
Having built my RV-10 long before I recognized the need for a USB port, I just
bought a cigarette plug adapter that has two cigarette plugs and two USB ports,
one with 2.1 amps for the mighty iPad. Purchased it on Amazon and it works
great. Not to helpful for the folks in back though unless you have a long cord
or another jack in the back.
Marcus
On Jan 15, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
So there was a thread, probably on Aeroelectric, regarding USB ports. As I recall
it was never brought to a conclusion.
What are y'all using for USB charging ports?
I have a cigarette port poorly located but I'd love to install a USB port or two.
On 1/15/2014 2:40 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> You must not carry kids (re the charging)....we use
> the back seat charging ports all the time.
> Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
Stein sells these...
On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> So there was a thread, probably on Aeroelectric, regarding USB ports.
As I recall it was never brought to a conclusion.
>
> What are y'all using for USB charging ports?
>
> I have a cigarette port poorly located but I'd love to install a USB
port or two.
>
>
> On 1/15/2014 2:40 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> You must not carry kids (re the charging)....we use
>> the back seat charging ports all the time.
>> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
Our headset jacks are in a panel below the vent. The panel extends from
the diagonal brace above it.
FWIW I wired the back seat music input with a 24" wire/1/8" plug (not a
jack) so the kids can plug their stuff in and I don't have to keep track of
a patch cord. It exits from inside a pocket so I just coil it up and leave
in there when not in use.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:48 AM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB
> charging port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below
> the back seat vent?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
Nice, looks like Stein has several USB options.
Thanks,
Marcus
On Jan 15, 2014, at 3:43 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
Stein sells these...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
| From: | "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
Mounted mine in the overhead. Seems to be a good location so far.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416978#416978
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn3089_149.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
If you have a center armrest front inside and the rear passengers on the
back side. It keeps all the wiring
In the center. Also less likely to catch them on their feet when getting out
of the
Airplane. Charge jacks and music inputs work great there as well.
FWIW
Geoff Combs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 12:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Placement of phone jacks for back seats
Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB
charging port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below
the back seat vent?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
I put mine (head sets only) on the seat back support. Seems like a bad
place at first but most of the people I have in the back are other than
family so I usually end up assisting them in getting strapped in. All the
cords are out of the way, works good for me.
Dick Sipp
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Combs
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Placement of phone jacks for back seats
If you have a center armrest front inside and the rear passengers on the
back side. It keeps all the wiring
In the center. Also less likely to catch them on their feet when getting out
of the
Airplane. Charge jacks and music inputs work great there as well.
FWIW
Geoff Combs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 12:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Placement of phone jacks for back seats
Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB
charging port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below
the back seat vent?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Placement of phone jacks for back seats |
| From: | Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com> |
+1 on back seat support. Looks like this:
http://kochman.smugmug.com/RV-10/Trips/2013-Cross-Country-Trip/i-7DXQJ82/0/M/2013-05-25%2009.44.15-M.jpg.
Downside is that I couldn't easily install the cover for the back seat
support that came with my Flightline interior. I don't really miss it,
though.
On USB charging ports, I'm a big fan of installing cigarette lighter ports
if you can, then using a low-profile USB charger that plugs in. That way,
if it ever breaks, it's super-easy to replace.
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Dick & Vicki Sipp wrote:
>
> I put mine (head sets only) on the seat back support. Seems like a bad
> place at first but most of the people I have in the back are other than
> family so I usually end up assisting them in getting strapped in. All the
> cords are out of the way, works good for me.
>
> Dick Sipp
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Combs
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:37 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Placement of phone jacks for back seats
>
>
> If you have a center armrest front inside and the rear passengers on the
> back side. It keeps all the wiring
> In the center. Also less likely to catch them on their feet when getting
> out
> of the
> Airplane. Charge jacks and music inputs work great there as well.
> FWIW
>
>
> Geoff Combs
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 12:49 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Placement of phone jacks for back seats
>
>
> Any ideas re placement of headphone jacks, aux music input jack, USB
> charging port for back seaters...other than the horizontal area just below
> the back seat vent?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416944#416944
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Injection 101 Class at Airflow |
I just got this notice from Airflow and am planning to attend. Even
though I've done a round of flow balancing for LOP ops, I'm figuring
that some training on the fuel injection system would be a good thing.
Just posting FYI. From past experience, I recall that the challenge may
be to get enough people to hold the class rather than it being
over-subscribed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tomhanaway <tomhanaway1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection 101 Class at Airflow |
Thanks for the heads up. Just signed up. Since we moved to Murphy, NC , this
is only two hours away by car.
Driving since the 10 is sold and 8A is under construction.
Look forward to seeing you again.
Tom H.
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 17, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> I just got this notice from Airflow and am planning to attend. Even though I've
done a round of flow balancing for LOP ops, I'm figuring that some training
on the fuel injection system would be a good thing.
>
> Just posting FYI. From past experience, I recall that the challenge may be to
get enough people to hold the class rather than it being over-subscribed.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection 101 Class at Airflow |
What are the class dates?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 17, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Tomhanaway wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. Just signed up. Since we moved to Murphy, NC , this
is only two hours away by car.
Driving since the 10 is sold and 8A is under construction.
Look forward to seeing you again.
Tom H.
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 17, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> I just got this notice from Airflow and am planning to attend. Even though I've
done a round of flow balancing for LOP ops, I'm figuring that some training
on the fuel injection system would be a good thing.
>
> Just posting FYI. From past experience, I recall that the challenge may be to
get enough people to hold the class rather than it being over-subscribed.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Injection 101 Class at Airflow |
Wish I could go, but I would love to read the handout, but not readable for
me.
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 12:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injection 101 Class at Airflow
I just got this notice from Airflow and am planning to attend. Even though
I've done a round of flow balancing for LOP ops, I'm figuring that some
training on the fuel injection system would be a good thing.
Just posting FYI. From past experience, I recall that the challenge may be
to get enough people to hold the class rather than it being over-subscribed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection 101 Class at Airflow |
| From: | Tomhanaway <tomhanaway1(at)gmail.com> |
March 7 (evening) to March 9 (noon Sunday)
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 17, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
>
> What are the class dates?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 17, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Tomhanaway wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the heads up. Just signed up. Since we moved to Murphy, NC , this
is only two hours away by car.
> Driving since the 10 is sold and 8A is under construction.
>
> Look forward to seeing you again.
>
> Tom H.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 17, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>
>> I just got this notice from Airflow and am planning to attend. Even though
I've done a round of flow balancing for LOP ops, I'm figuring that some training
on the fuel injection system would be a good thing.
>>
>> Just posting FYI. From past experience, I recall that the challenge may be
to get enough people to hold the class rather than it being over-subscribed.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Comp Air Aircraft |
Listers,
Has anyone purchased an XIO-540-D4A5 from Comp Air Aircraft of
Titusville, FL? I tried looking in the archives and did not find any
information about them.
Ed Godfrey
40717
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Advance flight systems |
Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use for IFR
flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others that you
don't like?
I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly and
practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting approaches?
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
I have a three screen AFS system, 2- 4500's and a 3400 in a symmetrical
panel layout. I've been flying the plane for 2 years now and have done a
pretty good amount of IFR work including approaches. I have about 30 hours
in IMC with the plane and really enjoy how the system works. I've primarily
shot GPS approach in actual, both with and without vertical guidance, and
just a few ILS approaches. I feel the AFS system coupled to GNS navigator
and the AFS/tru-trak autopilot have been truly awesome. The display of
information and the organization of the buttons and menus is very intuitive.
I believe those with the 5000 series products have it even better with more
buttons and less menus. Another feature that is really intuitive is the
operation of the autopilot via the knobs on the EFIS, it makes the
operation of the whole system, especially in IMC, quite straight forward.
Lastly, when I designed my panel I thought that a separate screen, (the
3400) primarily for showing the moving map and geo-referenced approach
plates was going to be very useful. I now think of it as essential. In
terms of situational awareness, I think the center screen is one of the
best tools going. I also have Navworx ADS displaying weather and traffic
on the center screen. Flying in the Northeast with traffic on screen is
spectacular.
Lastly, I installed the AFS AOA system when I built the plane but did not
turn it on during the first year of flying, I had never used AOA before and
just wasn't ready to wrap my head around another gizmo. Then I turned it
on and calibrated it. I'm now a AOA evangelist. It totally changed
(improved) how I flew and especially landed the plane. Since the RV-10 has
such a wide range of capability from single pilot and unloaded to super
fully loaded with all seats occupied, knowing exactly where you are with
respect to lift reserve is just huge. My advice, if you don't have it, get
it, if you got it, turn it ON!
In my RV-8 I'll use AFS gear again.
Bob Newman
N541RV
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Kermanj
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Advance flight systems
Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use for
IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others
that you don't like?
I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly
and practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting
approaches?
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
I have no experience with the system other than having Rob Hickman
demonstrate at airshows.
I like the ability to switch between an EFIS display and a conventional
six pack(for cross training or individual preference). I like the
ability to display the approach plates. AFS and Dynon have the latter
capability.
I think the main features to look for is how user friendly the
menu/buttons and other controls are, how sharp the display is, does it
have features you want like angle of attack, screen layout, etc. and
what nav source inputs it will display. Lastly, what is the cost to
update its databases. The latter is pretty much a deal killer for the
Garmin displays, IMHO, while most of the others are more reasonable.
Lastly, how does the autopilot interface with the EFIS and what does
that add to the cost. Between Grand Rapids, AFS and Dynon these days
mostly a personal choice on displays, buttons, features and menus, they
all are good and fairly price competitive.
On 1/18/2014 4:05 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use for
IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others that
you don't like?
>
> I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly and
practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting approaches?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I agree with Kelly. Remember that nearly everyone, including myself, thinks that
their choices were the best choices! Best you can do is educate yourself as
much as possible, then make YOUR choice.
(BTW GRT will display approach plates)
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417146#417146
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Advance flight systems |
Good discussion. The other aspect to overlay on selection is one's
confidence the company will be there in the long run. Dynon and Grand
Rapids have the most market share and equally important I can report they
both have superb after the sale service.
Carl
Dual Dynon SkyView and just got my IFR check ride in the RV-10. The SkyView
will go into the upcoming RV-8 project as well.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Advance flight systems
I have no experience with the system other than having Rob Hickman
demonstrate at airshows.
I like the ability to switch between an EFIS display and a conventional six
pack(for cross training or individual preference). I like the ability to
display the approach plates. AFS and Dynon have the latter capability.
I think the main features to look for is how user friendly the menu/buttons
and other controls are, how sharp the display is, does it have features you
want like angle of attack, screen layout, etc. and what nav source inputs it
will display. Lastly, what is the cost to update its databases. The latter
is pretty much a deal killer for the Garmin displays, IMHO, while most of
the others are more reasonable.
Lastly, how does the autopilot interface with the EFIS and what does that
add to the cost. Between Grand Rapids, AFS and Dynon these days mostly a
personal choice on displays, buttons, features and menus, they all are good
and fairly price competitive.
On 1/18/2014 4:05 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use
for IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others
that you don't like?
>
> I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly
and practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting
approaches?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
Keep in mind that AFS is now a Dynon subsidiary, so I expect support
will be around for AFS, Dynon and Grand Rapids for quite awhile.
Nothing wrong with Garmin either, although I find their menus less
friendly and their database update pricing obscene.
On 1/18/2014 6:31 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Good discussion. The other aspect to overlay on selection is one's
> confidence the company will be there in the long run. Dynon and Grand
> Rapids have the most market share and equally important I can report they
> both have superb after the sale service.
>
> Carl
> Dual Dynon SkyView and just got my IFR check ride in the RV-10. The SkyView
> will go into the upcoming RV-8 project as well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 7:32 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Advance flight systems
>
>
> I have no experience with the system other than having Rob Hickman
> demonstrate at airshows.
> I like the ability to switch between an EFIS display and a conventional six
> pack(for cross training or individual preference). I like the ability to
> display the approach plates. AFS and Dynon have the latter capability.
> I think the main features to look for is how user friendly the menu/buttons
> and other controls are, how sharp the display is, does it have features you
> want like angle of attack, screen layout, etc. and what nav source inputs it
> will display. Lastly, what is the cost to update its databases. The latter
> is pretty much a deal killer for the Garmin displays, IMHO, while most of
> the others are more reasonable.
> Lastly, how does the autopilot interface with the EFIS and what does that
> add to the cost. Between Grand Rapids, AFS and Dynon these days mostly a
> personal choice on displays, buttons, features and menus, they all are good
> and fairly price competitive.
>
> On 1/18/2014 4:05 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>
>> Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use
> for IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others
> that you don't like?
>> I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly
> and practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting
> approaches?
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | PReid <Rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
There are some advantages to both the AFS and Dynon. AFS is using the sky net system
used on the synonym.
Me I would buy Dynon again, even if AFS has better synvis, simply put the support
and attention to the comments of the users is huge for Dynon.
I flew 1 hr into the sun today. I ended up flying strictly from the panel and let
flight following keep traffic away, the Dynon literally can fly one into the
final 100 feet from the runway just from the synvis. Very different from the
state of the art HSI we had in our Vietnam era helos. Had to think back in those
days.
Pascal
> On Jan 18, 2014, at 5:31 PM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
>
>
> Good discussion. The other aspect to overlay on selection is one's
> confidence the company will be there in the long run. Dynon and Grand
> Rapids have the most market share and equally important I can report they
> both have superb after the sale service.
>
> Carl
> Dual Dynon SkyView and just got my IFR check ride in the RV-10. The SkyView
> will go into the upcoming RV-8 project as well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 7:32 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Advance flight systems
>
>
> I have no experience with the system other than having Rob Hickman
> demonstrate at airshows.
> I like the ability to switch between an EFIS display and a conventional six
> pack(for cross training or individual preference). I like the ability to
> display the approach plates. AFS and Dynon have the latter capability.
> I think the main features to look for is how user friendly the menu/buttons
> and other controls are, how sharp the display is, does it have features you
> want like angle of attack, screen layout, etc. and what nav source inputs it
> will display. Lastly, what is the cost to update its databases. The latter
> is pretty much a deal killer for the Garmin displays, IMHO, while most of
> the others are more reasonable.
> Lastly, how does the autopilot interface with the EFIS and what does that
> add to the cost. Between Grand Rapids, AFS and Dynon these days mostly a
> personal choice on displays, buttons, features and menus, they all are good
> and fairly price competitive.
>
>> On 1/18/2014 4:05 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>
>> Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use
> for IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others
> that you don't like?
>>
>> I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly
> and practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting
> approaches?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Comp Air Aircraft |
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm not sure they are still in business, I spent months trying to research them
about a 6+ seat homebuilt and came up empty. Please post if you find anything.
Marcus
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 18, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> Has anyone purchased an XIO-540-D4A5 from Comp Air Aircraft of Titusville,
FL? I tried looking in the archives and did not find any information about them.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
I have a very similar configuration as Bob, except my physical layout is different.
If doing my panel again, I would use Aerosport Products symmetrical panel
and put one large screen on each side, with a smaller one in the middle for
map display. That's a little OT since you can do the same with most vendors.
I've been very pleased with the support I've received from AFS. We are fortunate
that most of the EFIS vendors today provide great support. I think the merger
with Dynon has strengthen both companies.
As soon as the weather starts improving, I've got to get my IPC. So I can't really
comment on what it's like to fly with the 4500s in IMC. Since you can't
buy them anymore, it really doesn't matter. Like Bob mentioned, the buttons
and knobs on the 5000 series are greatly improved. The menus are flatter and
once they are learned easier to use. If I had the spare cash, I would be upgrading
my panel.
Bob touched on the use of the autopilot. I'm a strong proponent on which ever
EFIS vendor you choose, I highly recommend implementing a stand alone autopilot
like Trutrak or Trio. The reason is if there should ever be an EFIS failure,
the AP can keep your wings level and on course independently of the EFIS.
This buys you significant think time. With the AP functions built into the
EFIS and something fails, you are now hand flying. Which scenario would you
prefer?
For those that know me from conversations at the RV-10 at OSH, are aware that I
almost went with GRT. While there is nothing wrong with GRT. Several years
later, I'm now glad that I went with AFS. I think AFS has been leading the
experimental EFIS vendors bringing innovation to the platform for the last several
years. Although my opinion is biased, I'm happy with the decision that
I made.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 18, 2014, at 7:23 PM, "Bob-tcw" wrote:
>
> I have a three screen AFS system, 2- 4500's and a 3400 in a symmetrical panel
layout. I've been flying the plane for 2 years now and have done a pretty
good amount of IFR work including approaches. I have about 30 hours in IMC with
the plane and really enjoy how the system works. I've primarily shot GPS
approach in actual, both with and without vertical guidance, and just a few ILS
approaches. I feel the AFS system coupled to GNS navigator and the AFS/tru-trak
autopilot have been truly awesome. The display of information and the organization
of the buttons and menus is very intuitive. I believe those with the
5000 series products have it even better with more buttons and less menus.
Another feature that is really intuitive is the operation of the autopilot
via the knobs on the EFIS, it makes the operation of the whole system, especially
in IMC, quite straight forward. Lastly, when I designed my panel I thought
that a separate screen, (the 3400) primarily for showing the moving map and
geo-referenced approach plates was going to be very useful. I now think of
it as essential. In terms of situational awareness, I think the center screen
is one of the best tools going. I also have Navworx ADS displaying weather
and traffic on the center screen. Flying in the Northeast with traffic on
screen is spectacular.
>
> Lastly, I installed the AFS AOA system when I built the plane but did not
turn it on during the first year of flying, I had never used AOA before and just
wasn't ready to wrap my head around another gizmo. Then I turned it on and
calibrated it. I'm now a AOA evangelist. It totally changed (improved) how
I flew and especially landed the plane. Since the RV-10 has such a wide range
of capability from single pilot and unloaded to super fully loaded with all
seats occupied, knowing exactly where you are with respect to lift reserve
is just huge. My advice, if you don't have it, get it, if you got it, turn
it ON!
>
> In my RV-8 I'll use AFS gear again.
>
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Rob Kermanj
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:05 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Advance flight systems
>
>
> Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use for
IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others that
you don't like?
>
> I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly and
practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting approaches?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Comp Air Aircraft |
Last I knew they were still in business beside Merritt Island Airport
..... I'll ask around.
Linn
On 1/18/2014 11:50 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> I'm not sure they are still in business, I spent months trying to research them
about a 6+ seat homebuilt and came up empty. Please post if you find anything.
> Marcus
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 18, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>
>>
>> Listers,
>> Has anyone purchased an XIO-540-D4A5 from Comp Air Aircraft of Titusville,
FL? I tried looking in the archives and did not find any information about them.
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | Alan Mekler MD <amekler(at)metrocast.net> |
I have 2 AFS 4500 and 1 3400. The 3400 is on the copilot side. I have the AFS AP
and AOA.
I really like controlling the AP from the EFIS. Rob Hickman is always reachable
for any questions and Ken Chard is also very helpful with tech questions. The
only thing missing from the 4500 in my opinion for IFR is the low enroute maps.(the
5000 series has them as well as touch screen and if I had the money I could
upgrade the 4500s) I use an iPad mini with fore flight for this purpose)
Being able to set minimum altitudes on an approach is an invaluable safety feature
.
Flying ILS with the AP is not as smooth as the GPS approaches. You have to remember
to set the ILS course correctly.It is not automatic like with some other
systems.
Alan
N668G
On Jan 18, 2014, at 10:26 PM, PReid wrote:
>
> There are some advantages to both the AFS and Dynon. AFS is using the sky net
system used on the synonym.
> Me I would buy Dynon again, even if AFS has better synvis, simply put the support
and attention to the comments of the users is huge for Dynon.
> I flew 1 hr into the sun today. I ended up flying strictly from the panel and
let flight following keep traffic away, the Dynon literally can fly one into
the final 100 feet from the runway just from the synvis. Very different from the
state of the art HSI we had in our Vietnam era helos. Had to think back in
those days.
> Pascal
>
>> On Jan 18, 2014, at 5:31 PM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Good discussion. The other aspect to overlay on selection is one's
>> confidence the company will be there in the long run. Dynon and Grand
>> Rapids have the most market share and equally important I can report they
>> both have superb after the sale service.
>>
>> Carl
>> Dual Dynon SkyView and just got my IFR check ride in the RV-10. The SkyView
>> will go into the upcoming RV-8 project as well.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 7:32 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Advance flight systems
>>
>>
>> I have no experience with the system other than having Rob Hickman
>> demonstrate at airshows.
>> I like the ability to switch between an EFIS display and a conventional six
>> pack(for cross training or individual preference). I like the ability to
>> display the approach plates. AFS and Dynon have the latter capability.
>> I think the main features to look for is how user friendly the menu/buttons
>> and other controls are, how sharp the display is, does it have features you
>> want like angle of attack, screen layout, etc. and what nav source inputs it
>> will display. Lastly, what is the cost to update its databases. The latter
>> is pretty much a deal killer for the Garmin displays, IMHO, while most of
>> the others are more reasonable.
>> Lastly, how does the autopilot interface with the EFIS and what does that
>> add to the cost. Between Grand Rapids, AFS and Dynon these days mostly a
>> personal choice on displays, buttons, features and menus, they all are good
>> and fairly price competitive.
>>
>>> On 1/18/2014 4:05 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use
>> for IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and others
>> that you don't like?
>>>
>>> I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendly
>> and practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting
>> approaches?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comp Air Aircraft |
Upon further review, I missed the statement that the prices are for
builders of Comp Air aircraft only, just the same as Van's OEM deal.
Only about $3,000 cheaper.
Ed Godfrey
On 1/18/2014 1:59 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
> Listers,
> Has anyone purchased an XIO-540-D4A5 from Comp Air Aircraft of
> Titusville, FL? I tried looking in the archives and did not find any
> information about them.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
I will also echo these previous statements....if there was a perfect system
for everyone then the other companies just wouldn't exist. They ALL are
good solutions for the right folks depending on their budget, use, mission,
aesthetics, etc.. Same reason some of us like Blue cars and some like Red
cars. In the end, I often recommend folks buy what fits their personal
desires and needs. Building an airplane by committee is only an exercise in
compromises - because as noted each person for the most part will be biased
towards what they chose. How do I know?....look at this thread and you'll
see a few comments on various systems that are somewhat repeats of marketing
statements made by various mfgr's against other mfgr's. For example, once
and awhile I still see database costs get thrown around, but people don't
realize they often times are comparing apples and oranges - for the most
part if you consider the same data across most systems the costs are the
pretty much the same. Folks also neglect to mention that while some mfgr's
offer "free" VFR data, they charge $500 to turn it on when you buy the
system. My point isn't that one method is good or bad, just that you need
to take specific bits of data like that in their complete context and look
at the overall picture - not just a sales sound byte! Some systems require
stuff like separate ARINC adapters to talk to certified GPSes, others don't.
Some offer external A/P controls, others don't. Some offer AOA and others
don't. Some have big screens while others don't. Some offer things like
automatic pitch trim while some don't. Some will fly synthetic approaches
to any waypoint, others won't. My point is that I could go on and on for
pages about the little nuances and differences that make each system unique
on its own but won't make it perfect for all folks in all instances.
The fact is AFS, Dynon, Garmin and GRT are all good systems that for the
most part are 85% the same as far as functionality. One thing you might try
to do is get some time behind the actual units if you can, or go play with
them in person as much as you can without any sales pressures. Each system
has its own benefits that those mfgr's will tout - and some are more
important to some folks than others are. We sell a whole lot of EFISes each
year (many hundreds of them) and if one were perfect I wouldn't need to sell
the other three, but so far I haven't found that perfect system for
everyone.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Advance flight systems
I agree with Kelly. Remember that nearly everyone, including myself, thinks
that their choices were the best choices! Best you can do is educate
yourself as much as possible, then make YOUR choice.
(BTW GRT will display approach plates)
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417146#417146
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Well put! Now, if someone who knew of all these differences could list them, THAT
would be a great contribution!
> On Jan 19, 2014, at 10:12 AM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> I will also echo these previous statements....if there was a perfect system
> for everyone then the other companies just wouldn't exist. They ALL are
> good solutions for the right folks depending on their budget, use, mission,
> aesthetics, etc.. Same reason some of us like Blue cars and some like Red
> cars. In the end, I often recommend folks buy what fits their personal
> desires and needs. Building an airplane by committee is only an exercise in
> compromises - because as noted each person for the most part will be biased
> towards what they chose. How do I know?....look at this thread and you'll
> see a few comments on various systems that are somewhat repeats of marketing
> statements made by various mfgr's against other mfgr's. For example, once
> and awhile I still see database costs get thrown around, but people don't
> realize they often times are comparing apples and oranges - for the most
> part if you consider the same data across most systems the costs are the
> pretty much the same. Folks also neglect to mention that while some mfgr's
> offer "free" VFR data, they charge $500 to turn it on when you buy the
> system. My point isn't that one method is good or bad, just that you need
> to take specific bits of data like that in their complete context and look
> at the overall picture - not just a sales sound byte! Some systems require
> stuff like separate ARINC adapters to talk to certified GPSes, others don't.
> Some offer external A/P controls, others don't. Some offer AOA and others
> don't. Some have big screens while others don't. Some offer things like
> automatic pitch trim while some don't. Some will fly synthetic approaches
> to any waypoint, others won't. My point is that I could go on and on for
> pages about the little nuances and differences that make each system unique
> on its own but won't make it perfect for all folks in all instances.
>
> The fact is AFS, Dynon, Garmin and GRT are all good systems that for the
> most part are 85% the same as far as functionality. One thing you might try
> to do is get some time behind the actual units if you can, or go play with
> them in person as much as you can without any sales pressures. Each system
> has its own benefits that those mfgr's will tout - and some are more
> important to some folks than others are. We sell a whole lot of EFISes each
> year (many hundreds of them) and if one were perfect I wouldn't need to sell
> the other three, but so far I haven't found that perfect system for
> everyone.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:55 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Advance flight systems
>
>
> I agree with Kelly. Remember that nearly everyone, including myself, thinks
> that their choices were the best choices! Best you can do is educate
> yourself as much as possible, then make YOUR choice.
>
> (BTW GRT will display approach plates)
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417146#417146
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
I think you hit it on the head. There is no one system better for all people.
One of the more important things, I think, for an IFR panel, is not so much CAN
the system fly the type of approach you need (because many/most can), but more
how EASILY they can be configured and managed on the approach. You will find
big differences in the way individuals learn and understand knobology. Look
back at the old arguments between the original 480 and 430 from garmin. There
are people who will swear one is far easier to use than the other. People
are all different so I think it's important to try them out and see what fits
your style.
Tim
> On Jan 19, 2014, at 12:12 PM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> I will also echo these previous statements....if there was a perfect system
> for everyone then the other companies just wouldn't exist. They ALL are
> good solutions for the right folks depending on their budget, use, mission,
> aesthetics, etc.. Same reason some of us like Blue cars and some like Red
> cars. In the end, I often recommend folks buy what fits their personal
> desires and needs. Building an airplane by committee is only an exercise in
> compromises - because as noted each person for the most part will be biased
> towards what they chose. How do I know?....look at this thread and you'll
> see a few comments on various systems that are somewhat repeats of marketing
> statements made by various mfgr's against other mfgr's. For example, once
> and awhile I still see database costs get thrown around, but people don't
> realize they often times are comparing apples and oranges - for the most
> part if you consider the same data across most systems the costs are the
> pretty much the same. Folks also neglect to mention that while some mfgr's
> offer "free" VFR data, they charge $500 to turn it on when you buy the
> system. My point isn't that one method is good or bad, just that you need
> to take specific bits of data like that in their complete context and look
> at the overall picture - not just a sales sound byte! Some systems require
> stuff like separate ARINC adapters to talk to certified GPSes, others don't.
> Some offer external A/P controls, others don't. Some offer AOA and others
> don't. Some have big screens while others don't. Some offer things like
> automatic pitch trim while some don't. Some will fly synthetic approaches
> to any waypoint, others won't. My point is that I could go on and on for
> pages about the little nuances and differences that make each system unique
> on its own but won't make it perfect for all folks in all instances.
>
> The fact is AFS, Dynon, Garmin and GRT are all good systems that for the
> most part are 85% the same as far as functionality. One thing you might try
> to do is get some time behind the actual units if you can, or go play with
> them in person as much as you can without any sales pressures. Each system
> has its own benefits that those mfgr's will tout - and some are more
> important to some folks than others are. We sell a whole lot of EFISes each
> year (many hundreds of them) and if one were perfect I wouldn't need to sell
> the other three, but so far I haven't found that perfect system for
> everyone.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:55 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Advance flight systems
>
>
> I agree with Kelly. Remember that nearly everyone, including myself, thinks
> that their choices were the best choices! Best you can do is educate
> yourself as much as possible, then make YOUR choice.
>
> (BTW GRT will display approach plates)
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417146#417146
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
Everyone is different. For example Tim uses "knobology" and I use
"buttonology" I know which one is better...
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Advance flight systems
I think you hit it on the head. There is no one system better for all
people. One of the more important things, I think, for an IFR panel, is not
so much CAN the system fly the type of approach you need (because many/most
can), but more how EASILY they can be configured and managed on the
approach. You will find big differences in the way individuals learn and
understand knobology. Look back at the old arguments between the original
480 and 430 from garmin. There are people who will swear one is far easier
to use than the other. People are all different so I think it's important
to try them out and see what fits your style.
Tim
> On Jan 19, 2014, at 12:12 PM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> I will also echo these previous statements....if there was a perfect
> system
> for everyone then the other companies just wouldn't exist. They ALL are
> good solutions for the right folks depending on their budget, use,
> mission,
> aesthetics, etc.. Same reason some of us like Blue cars and some like Red
> cars. In the end, I often recommend folks buy what fits their personal
> desires and needs. Building an airplane by committee is only an exercise
> in
> compromises - because as noted each person for the most part will be
> biased
> towards what they chose. How do I know?....look at this thread and you'll
> see a few comments on various systems that are somewhat repeats of
> marketing
> statements made by various mfgr's against other mfgr's. For example, once
> and awhile I still see database costs get thrown around, but people don't
> realize they often times are comparing apples and oranges - for the most
> part if you consider the same data across most systems the costs are the
> pretty much the same. Folks also neglect to mention that while some mfgr's
> offer "free" VFR data, they charge $500 to turn it on when you buy the
> system. My point isn't that one method is good or bad, just that you need
> to take specific bits of data like that in their complete context and look
> at the overall picture - not just a sales sound byte! Some systems
> require
> stuff like separate ARINC adapters to talk to certified GPSes, others
> don't.
> Some offer external A/P controls, others don't. Some offer AOA and others
> don't. Some have big screens while others don't. Some offer things like
> automatic pitch trim while some don't. Some will fly synthetic approaches
> to any waypoint, others won't. My point is that I could go on and on for
> pages about the little nuances and differences that make each system
> unique
> on its own but won't make it perfect for all folks in all instances.
>
> The fact is AFS, Dynon, Garmin and GRT are all good systems that for the
> most part are 85% the same as far as functionality. One thing you might
> try
> to do is get some time behind the actual units if you can, or go play with
> them in person as much as you can without any sales pressures. Each
> system
> has its own benefits that those mfgr's will tout - and some are more
> important to some folks than others are. We sell a whole lot of EFISes
> each
> year (many hundreds of them) and if one were perfect I wouldn't need to
> sell
> the other three, but so far I haven't found that perfect system for
> everyone.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:55 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Advance flight systems
>
>
> I agree with Kelly. Remember that nearly everyone, including myself,
> thinks
> that their choices were the best choices! Best you can do is educate
> yourself as much as possible, then make YOUR choice.
>
> (BTW GRT will display approach plates)
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417146#417146
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
I tried, but wasn't successful. Many of the differentiators aren't documented
well in the manuals. You really have to fly with them. Most people will know
the unit they have, but not the others. This make comparisons difficult.
Even seeing them side by side in Stein's or Aerotronics at OSH it's difficult to
make comparisons because it's hard to evaluate process flows in a booth.
There was a group of us making the rounds at OSH looking at screens. There was
the hot vendor that was first to bring great graphics to the market. There was
another vendor whose graphics weren't as hot, but used a font that was a little
larger in font size. Since don't size isn't adjustable on most screens,
if you're just starting to wear bi-focals, this could be a factor to you. If not,
you won't care.
This is hard to distinguish in the documentation. It also hard to determine single
pilot work load and process flows by watching the vendor's videos.
These are several reasons to find somebody that has your preferred screen installed
and go fly with them.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 19, 2014, at 1:31 PM, John Jessen wrote:
Well put! Now, if someone who knew of all these differences could list them, THAT
would be a great contribution!
> On Jan 19, 2014, at 10:12 AM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> I will also echo these previous statements....if there was a perfect system
> for everyone then the other companies just wouldn't exist. They ALL are
> good solutions for the right folks depending on their budget, use, mission,
> aesthetics, etc.. Same reason some of us like Blue cars and some like Red
> cars. In the end, I often recommend folks buy what fits their personal
> desires and needs. Building an airplane by committee is only an exercise in
> compromises - because as noted each person for the most part will be biased
> towards what they chose. How do I know?....look at this thread and you'll
> see a few comments on various systems that are somewhat repeats of marketing
> statements made by various mfgr's against other mfgr's. For example, once
> and awhile I still see database costs get thrown around, but people don't
> realize they often times are comparing apples and oranges - for the most
> part if you consider the same data across most systems the costs are the
> pretty much the same. Folks also neglect to mention that while some mfgr's
> offer "free" VFR data, they charge $500 to turn it on when you buy the
> system. My point isn't that one method is good or bad, just that you need
> to take specific bits of data like that in their complete context and look
> at the overall picture - not just a sales sound byte! Some systems require
> stuff like separate ARINC adapters to talk to certified GPSes, others don't.
> Some offer external A/P controls, others don't. Some offer AOA and others
> don't. Some have big screens while others don't. Some offer things like
> automatic pitch trim while some don't. Some will fly synthetic approaches
> to any waypoint, others won't. My point is that I could go on and on for
> pages about the little nuances and differences that make each system unique
> on its own but won't make it perfect for all folks in all instances.
>
> The fact is AFS, Dynon, Garmin and GRT are all good systems that for the
> most part are 85% the same as far as functionality. One thing you might try
> to do is get some time behind the actual units if you can, or go play with
> them in person as much as you can without any sales pressures. Each system
> has its own benefits that those mfgr's will tout - and some are more
> important to some folks than others are. We sell a whole lot of EFISes each
> year (many hundreds of them) and if one were perfect I wouldn't need to sell
> the other three, but so far I haven't found that perfect system for
> everyone.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:55 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Advance flight systems
>
>
> I agree with Kelly. Remember that nearly everyone, including myself, thinks
> that their choices were the best choices! Best you can do is educate
> yourself as much as possible, then make YOUR choice.
>
> (BTW GRT will display approach plates)
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417146#417146
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
To answer your last question, I fly in IMC behind a GRT HX, and am happy.
There is no button pushing if hand flying. If controlling an autopilot (Trio in
my case) I push a knob to bring up the menu, push a button to arm the approach
(choose ILS, LPV, etc), exit menu. All this is done prior to final course intercept.
One button push plus add power will start the miss, if needed.
Another little thing that no one thinks about: count the number of serial ports
you get, and try to figure how many you need. Do you have enough?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417220#417220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LEON EVERETT <leeverett(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Advance flight systems |
I have AFS 4500s and I love them. The only weakness I see is VOR approaches
. But the AFS autopilot flys the GPS overlay perfectly. It flys a GPS and I
LS much better than you can hand fly it. The only other issue I have is tha
t it does not support stormscope data on its screen.
Leon Everett
> From: flysrv10(at)gmail.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Advance flight systems
> Date: Sat=2C 18 Jan 2014 18:05:31 -0500
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Anyone with Advanced flight systems EFIS that can comment about it's use
for IFR flight and approaches? Features that you think are great and other
s that you don't like?
>
> I have watched some of the videos and am looking to find how user friendl
y and practical the system is. Anything that trips you while shooting appr
oaches?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Bob Turner wrote:
> To answer your last question, I fly in IMC behind a GRT HX, and am happy.
> There is no button pushing if hand flying. If controlling an autopilot (Trio
in my case) I push a knob to bring up the menu, push a button to arm the approach
(choose ILS, LPV, etc), exit menu. All this is done prior to final course
intercept. One button push plus add power will start the miss, if needed.
>
> Another little thing that no one thinks about: count the number of serial
ports you get, and try to figure how many you need. Do you have enough?
Bob,
I also have a GRT HX with a TrioPro. The arming is true enough, but there is a
lot of button pushing to get the ILS in the first place, unless you have an SL-30.
I have the GNS430W and it's a pita to get the approach set up on the 430W.
Since I can switch the Trio to the 430W, I just do that and monitor everything
on the HX. The 430W will fly the missed, but the single button push is on the
430W - not on the HX.
What's your source for the ILS?
In fact, that's the real discussion on EFIS selection - you Nav sources. I agree
that you need lots of serial ports - like the GRT HX, or HXr.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417260#417260
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
Assumptions....
Approach loaded in 430 (note no w)
EFIS in heading mode (which commands heading and altitude)
AP (tt) coupled to EFIS
When ready, pull up soft keys, select ILS, and then respond to one warning.
Then when the you are close enough to capture the localizer the EFIS
commands the AP to fly the ILS.....
There are other ways to get there, but I am almost always being vectored to
the approach, thus the heading mode. If you are hand flying, then you would
have to engage the AP once the EFIS has captured the localizer and you were
ready to stop flying.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 7:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Advance flight systems
-->
Bob Turner wrote:
> To answer your last question, I fly in IMC behind a GRT HX, and am happy.
> There is no button pushing if hand flying. If controlling an autopilot
(Trio in my case) I push a knob to bring up the menu, push a button to arm
the approach (choose ILS, LPV, etc), exit menu. All this is done prior to
final course intercept. One button push plus add power will start the miss,
if needed.
>
> Another little thing that no one thinks about: count the number of
serial ports you get, and try to figure how many you need. Do you have
enough?
Bob,
I also have a GRT HX with a TrioPro. The arming is true enough, but there is
a lot of button pushing to get the ILS in the first place, unless you have
an SL-30. I have the GNS430W and it's a pita to get the approach set up on
the 430W. Since I can switch the Trio to the 430W, I just do that and
monitor everything on the HX. The 430W will fly the missed, but the single
button push is on the 430W - not on the HX.
What's your source for the ILS?
In fact, that's the real discussion on EFIS selection - you Nav sources. I
agree that you need lots of serial ports - like the GRT HX, or HXr.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417260#417260
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advance flight systems |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
John - yes I have an SL-30 and G420W (GPS-no VOR) combo, so I have a little less
button pushing on the Nav's than you do.
Still, at my home field (KLVK), I need to enter the ILS approach on the 420W because
it's needed in case of a miss, in lieu of an ADF.
So my ILS procedure is: enter the approach on the 420W, enter the localizer frequency
on the SL-30. Go to the autopilot menu and select "gnav" (if I'm going
to have the 420W provide guidance to the localizer, including any procedure turns/holding
pattern entries) or "Heading" (if on vectors). Select "ILS arm". Exit
the menu. On the main EFIS page push "Execute".
The GRT HX does everything from here on except that I need to adjust the throttle
to control speed (Trio will auto trim). HX puts final approach course in, scans
all nav inputs looking for a localizer and, at localizer intercept, automatically
switches to the SL-30.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417304#417304
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power sold |
| From: | "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com> |
Astronics is fully committed to the VP-X and legacy product lines. They have re-started
manufacturing in their Seattle offices, hired a new tech support person,
and are working on new upcoming products for the experimental market.
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com "Move up to a modern electrical system"
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417454#417454
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FS Wire Harnesses for Slick 6Cyl Mags |
| From: | "Barry" <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
I have 2 Wire Harnesses from a IO/O 540 with Slick Mags. I went with EI and auto
plugs; these harnesses have 200hr on them, have been tested and are in good
shape. The p/n are M-2878 for RH and M-2877 for LH and M-6002 for both. These
fit the 5/8" by 24 REM type plugs. I will sell both for $275.00 or $180.00 each.
The prices include shipping ConUS via PayPal. Thanks Barry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417500#417500
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FS REM38E Spark Plugs |
| From: | "Barry" <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
8 Champion REM38E Spark Plugs with 200hr of use. These plugs have been cleaned,
gapped, and tested (Resistance and on the Machine) and are in good shape. The
gaskets have been annealed and the plugs have been painted. $95.00 includes shipping
ConUS via PayPal. I have pictures I can email, send me a PM. Thanks Barry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417501#417501
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS Wire Harnesses for Slick 6Cyl Mags |
| From: | "Barry" <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
Wire Harnesses have been sold. Thanks Barry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417565#417565
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | antenna question |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Which comm antenna choice have people found cost effective for belly mounting?
Straight vs bent whip? The cheaper bare metal with ring connectors or more costly
plastic with BNC connector?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417578#417578
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: antenna question |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
Mines not cost effective, but I have 2 Comant bent whip antennas and they work
great!!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 25, 2014, at 1:58 PM, "bob88" wrote:
>
>
> Which comm antenna choice have people found cost effective for belly mounting?
Straight vs bent whip? The cheaper bare metal with ring connectors or more costly
plastic with BNC connector?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417578#417578
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: antenna question |
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
I used the cheap bent whip, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_com/av534.php, and it works great. Just make sure you dont tighten the nut on the ceramics too tight. After 7 years no issues with talking to tower on the ground even though its below the airplane, mine is located abeam the battery behind the baggage bulkhead.
Marcus
On Jan 25, 2014, at 1:58 PM, bob88 wrote:
Which comm antenna choice have people found cost effective for belly mounting?
Straight vs bent whip? The cheaper bare metal with ring connectors or more costly
plastic with BNC connector?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417578#417578
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | antenna question |
Electrically you would need a very sensitive antenna range to measure any
performance difference between the straight or bent whip. The bent whip
however provides practical advantage for mounting. Get one with the BNC
connector to mitigate ring connectors corroding over time - and the BNC
connector minimizes the "impedance bump" introduced with ring connectors.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: antenna question
Which comm antenna choice have people found cost effective for belly
mounting? Straight vs bent whip? The cheaper bare metal with ring connectors
or more costly plastic with BNC connector?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417578#417578
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: antenna question |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
I like the Rami bent whip for a good mount with BNC connector but cheaper than
the Commant.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 25, 2014, at 1:58 PM, "bob88" wrote:
>
>
> Which comm antenna choice have people found cost effective for belly mounting?
Straight vs bent whip? The cheaper bare metal with ring connectors or more costly
plastic with BNC connector?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417578#417578
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Clifford <davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: antenna question |
Deltapop Aviation. Great high quality antenna's at a very reasonable cost. http://www.deltapopaviation.com/Home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:58:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: antenna question
Which comm antenna choice have people found cost effective for belly mounting?
Straight vs bent whip? The cheaper bare metal with ring connectors or more costly
plastic with BNC connector?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417578#417578
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: antenna question |
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
Take a look at Delta Pop Aviation. They make great antennas at a great price.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 25, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
>
> I like the Rami bent whip for a good mount with BNC connector but cheaper than
the Commant.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 25, 2014, at 1:58 PM, "bob88" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Which comm antenna choice have people found cost effective for belly mounting?
Straight vs bent whip? The cheaper bare metal with ring connectors or more
costly plastic with BNC connector?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417578#417578
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tal Holloway <whodja(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | I have a question regarding a Ray Allen Trim System for the |
RV-10
I purchased a RV-10 tail kit and part of the pkg was a T3-12A-TS system. I'm just
starting the kit and I'm not sure which AP I will eventually use. What AP is
this system compatible with? Does it work with Garmin, AFS or Dynon? It's never
been installed. Should I sell it and buy something different closer to avionics?
Thanks
Tal Holloway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I have a question regarding a Ray Allen Trim System for |
the RV-10
I've often thought that having the autopilot drive the trim servo (the
Ray Allen you have is the trim servo) would be far better than having
the autopilot control the elevator directly. I went the 'traditional'
route ... the Ray Allen is elevator trim and the autopilot controls the
elevator.
So, to answer your question .... (IMHO) you should keep the Ray Allen
and buy AP servos from the same vendor as the AP.
Linn
On 1/26/2014 6:38 PM, Tal Holloway wrote:
>
> I purchased a RV-10 tail kit and part of the pkg was a T3-12A-TS system. I'm
just starting the kit and I'm not sure which AP I will eventually use. What AP
is this system compatible with? Does it work with Garmin, AFS or Dynon? It's
never been installed. Should I sell it and buy something different closer to avionics?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tal Holloway
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have a question regarding a Ray Allen Trim System for |
the RV-10
| From: | Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
Tal.
This is the trim servo, not an autopilot servo. Now if you go with an autopilot
that supports auto-trimming, the autopilot system will connect into this servo.
The trim servo is compatible with all major brands of autopilots
Bob Newman
N541RV
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2014, at 6:38 PM, Tal Holloway wrote:
>
> I purchased a RV-10 tail kit and part of the pkg was a T3-12A-TS system. I'm
just starting the kit and I'm not sure which AP I will eventually use. What AP
is this system compatible with? Does it work with Garmin, AFS or Dynon? It's
never been installed. Should I sell it and buy something different closer to avionics?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tal Holloway
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have a question regarding a Ray Allen Trim System for |
the RV-10
| From: | Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> |
The servo you have is part of the standard RV-10 tail kit. It is useful
and necessary regardless of autopilot installation or brand. Some
autopilots support auto-trim and would use this also for that purpose.
Bob
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Tcwtech wrote:
> >
>
> Tal.
>
> This is the trim servo, not an autopilot servo. Now if you go with an
> autopilot that supports auto-trimming, the autopilot system will connect
> into this servo. The trim servo is compatible with all major brands of
> autopilots
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 26, 2014, at 6:38 PM, Tal Holloway >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I purchased a RV-10 tail kit and part of the pkg was a T3-12A-TS system.
> I'm just starting the kit and I'm not sure which AP I will eventually use.
> What AP is this system compatible with? Does it work with Garmin, AFS or
> Dynon? It's never been installed. Should I sell it and buy something
> different closer to avionics?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tal Holloway
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have a question regarding a Ray Allen Trim System for |
the
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Hi Tal!
As the others have already posted, all of the available RV autopilots use a servo
which drives the elevator directly, not the trim. I suspect the trim doesn't
run fast enough in turbulence.
Different autopilots deal with trim differently. If you change airspeed, some units
will simply indicate that you need to re-trim, manually. Others will drive
the Ray Allen trim servos automatically (I know the Trio will do that, if ordered
with "auto trim". I think the same is true for TruTrak).
This is a ways off, but you will find the trim speed about right at takeoff and
landing speeds, but quite fast at cruise speeds. There is a box available ("safe-t-trim"??)
which will automatically slow the trim speed as airspeed goes up;
and at the same time will cut off trim if it runs more than 3 seconds, as a
safety precaution against a runaway trim. An option to consider, when you get
to the panel building.
Bob
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417637#417637
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have a question regarding a Ray Allen Trim System |
for the
| From: | Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
Bob mentioned our Safety-trim product, all the details are on our web site: www.tcwtech.com
On Jan 26, 2014, at 8:40 PM, "Bob Turner" wrote:
>
> Hi Tal!
>
> As the others have already posted, all of the available RV autopilots use a servo
which drives the elevator directly, not the trim. I suspect the trim doesn't
run fast enough in turbulence.
>
> Different autopilots deal with trim differently. If you change airspeed, some
units will simply indicate that you need to re-trim, manually. Others will drive
the Ray Allen trim servos automatically (I know the Trio will do that, if
ordered with "auto trim". I think the same is true for TruTrak).
>
> This is a ways off, but you will find the trim speed about right at takeoff and
landing speeds, but quite fast at cruise speeds. There is a box available ("safe-t-trim"??)
which will automatically slow the trim speed as airspeed goes
up; and at the same time will cut off trim if it runs more than 3 seconds, as
a safety precaution against a runaway trim. An option to consider, when you get
to the panel building.
>
> Bob
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417637#417637
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have a question regarding a Ray Allen Trim System |
for the
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
The same is true for Trutrak with the auto trim module.
I also recommend a module that controls trim spend like Safety-trim or the built
in trim control in the VPX.
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 26, 2014, at 8:40 PM, "Bob Turner" wrote:
>
>
> Hi Tal!
>
> As the others have already posted, all of the available RV autopilots use a servo
which drives the elevator directly, not the trim. I suspect the trim doesn't
run fast enough in turbulence.
>
> Different autopilots deal with trim differently. If you change airspeed, some
units will simply indicate that you need to re-trim, manually. Others will drive
the Ray Allen trim servos automatically (I know the Trio will do that, if
ordered with "auto trim". I think the same is true for TruTrak).
>
> This is a ways off, but you will find the trim speed about right at takeoff and
landing speeds, but quite fast at cruise speeds. There is a box available ("safe-t-trim"??)
which will automatically slow the trim speed as airspeed goes
up; and at the same time will cut off trim if it runs more than 3 seconds, as
a safety precaution against a runaway trim. An option to consider, when you get
to the panel building.
>
> Bob
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417637#417637
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cooprv7 <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance
below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?
Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do
you require?
I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years
and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.
Thanks,
Marcus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
We're talking grass here. If the grass is long enough to cause damage
to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.
The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on
a rough runway. Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more
you'll feel roughness.
Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips
On 1/26/2014 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:
>
> I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance
below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have
had? Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions
do you require?
> I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years
and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
I live on a 2200' grass runway. When I built my -10 I raised the wheel pants a
little higher, maybe an extra 3/4-1" is all I could get. I also made the clearance
around the wheel approximately 1" all the way around. I've had no issues
and no wheel pant damage so far in 3 years and ~270 hours.
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:
>
>
> I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance
below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have
had? Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions
do you require?
> I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years
and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Go Pantless, like I did.
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417667#417667
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
I thought about that but just can't do it. 7 years with pants on has me used to
them.
> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:10 AM, "johngoodman" wrote:
>
>
> Go Pantless, like I did.
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417667#417667
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
What might seem counter-intuitive, in the desert Southwest, pants are
needed for engine cooling.
The added drag and lower airspeed reduces air over the engine, resulting
in hotter temps.
I've forgotten how much Deems said his temps came down after he added
wheel pants, and I seem to recall the speed penalty was over 10 kts
without the pants. Currently planning on doing pants during phase 1, and
not before first flight.
On 1/27/2014 7:34 AM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> I thought about that but just can't do it. 7 years with pants on has me used
to them.
>
>
>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:10 AM, "johngoodman" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Go Pantless, like I did.
>>
>> --------
>> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417667#417667
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speckter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
I operate almost exclusively off of grass. I have had some issues with vibration
causing the mounting hardware to shake loose. I solved that with Sean's spacer
for the mains. The only other thing I notice is a very slow erosion of paint
on the bottoms. You need to watch out for ant mounds and gopher holes though.
The 10 works great on grass.
Gary Specketer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cooprv7" <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:48:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: turf runways
I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance
below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?
Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do
you require?
I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and
not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.
Thanks,
Marcus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
I operate my RV-10 in and out of a turf runway at my residential airpark on
a regular basis (WN29 - see
http://www.blueribbonfarmsassociation.com/airstrip.shtml ) and it is a fine
performer. Occasionally the wheel pants get a little ding on the bottom,
but it is not from the grass but rather crossing ruts made by others. The
RV-10 has such a luxurious amount of power that even soft turf runways are
not a problem unless you combine that with high altitude, short field, and
obstacles that would make a Maule driver have second thoughts.
And if you EVER DRIVE A CAR down our turf runway, especially at high speed,
there is going to be an angry mob taking photos and chasing you out of town.
Don't do it unless it is your privately owned turf runway.
-Dan Masys
RV10 N104LD - 660 hrs
RV12 N122LD - 180 hrs
> From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: turf runways
> We're talking grass here. If the grass is long enough to cause damage
> to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.
> The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on
> a rough runway. Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more
> you'll feel roughness.
> Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
No chance of damaging these pants... [Wink]
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417689#417689
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1936_134.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I have flown into SC00 Triple Tree SC twice. We sat watching everyones pants shake
like crazy and that runway is supposedly golf course smooth. If I lived on
a grass strip I would beef up wheel pant mounts(switch to stainless) and fiberglass
or just remove them.
Maybe we will hear from Bill "Living the life in an airpark with turf" Watson.
He might have to put some snow skis on this week.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417725#417725
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
jchang10 wrote:
> Looks nice. Normally, the gear fairing is held in place by the lower
> pant. How did you keep the gear fairings in place without the pants?
>
> Jae
>
They actually stay on just fine. They are attached at the top, and the only thing
I did different is taper them down as far as I could. They actually stay in
place without any special work on the bottom. The nose strut is even easier,
it already has screws to hold it in place. I did have to change the piano hinge
set up on the mains - a pin to go up, and a pin to go down.
Without the pant brackets, and with hub caps, there's not much drag to worry about.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417726#417726
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
johngoodman wrote:
>
> jchang10 wrote:
> > Looks nice. Normally, the gear fairing is held in place by the lower
> > pant. How did you keep the gear fairings in place without the pants?
> >
> > Jae
> >
>
>
> They actually stay on just fine. They are attached at the top, and the only thing
I did different is taper them down as far as I could. They actually stay
in place without any special work on the bottom. The nose strut is even easier,
it already has screws to hold it in place. I did have to change the piano hinge
set up on the mains - a pin to go up, and a pin to go down.
> Without the pant brackets, and with hub caps, there's not much drag to worry
about.
>
> John
What you lose in speed/time, guessing...6 kias/15 min per long xc would be nothing
compared to time and materials repairing broke pants on a grass strip. I would
take my pants off in a heartbeat to save $170/mo hangar rent and walk out
to my hangar.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417730#417730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Hey all
I'm in Cocoa Beach FL for the next 4 weeks, and am looking possibly for a bit of
a deversion from my time away, from the Canadian winter. I have a 75% completed
RV 10 at home, so I have a little experience pounding rivets. If anyone
in the area could use some help please contact me (doesn't have to be an RV10
project).
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
(Cocoa Beach at present)
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Relocating the fuel filter |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond inconvenient
when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel filters, one on each
side, in a more convenient location such as under pilot/copilot seat or the
wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter. It's not
my area of expertise.
I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the tunnel,
taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice with out removing
the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as putting an access
panel on both sides.
David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can have it installed.
It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of deal to fabricate
your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel filter.
Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the tunnel with
out having to take everything apart. This is important for those of us that
have center consoles install.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote:
>
>
> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond inconvenient
when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel filters, one on each
side, in a more convenient location such as under pilot/copilot seat or the
wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do this?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel cover be
removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter if mounted
in the per-plan location is fairly easy.
I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow more clearance
with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover is shorten enough so that
I don't use the most forward screws. This one thing makes the cover removal/install
much easier.
Carl
> On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
>
> I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter. It's
not my area of expertise.
>
> I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the tunnel,
taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice with out
removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as putting an access
panel on both sides.
>
> David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can have it
installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of deal to fabricate
your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel
filter.
>
> Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the tunnel with
out having to take everything apart. This is important for those of us
that have center consoles install.
>
> Bob
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote:
>>
>>
>> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond inconvenient
when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel filters, one on
each side, in a more convenient location such as under pilot/copilot seat or the
wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
There are more than one way to skin a cat......
The access panels allow me to inspect everything forward of the fuel valve. I
can easily remove the filter and pump through this opening.
I cut my cover at the fuel valve as to not require removing the forward cover unless
something I find dictates it.
For those of use that have center consoles, this allows us the flexibility of leaving
the stack in place during an inspection.
I then only have to remove the section aft of the cut.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel cover be
removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter if mounted
in the per-plan location is fairly easy.
I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow more clearance
with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover is shorten enough so that
I don't use the most forward screws. This one thing makes the cover removal/install
much easier.
Carl
> On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
>
> I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter. It's
not my area of expertise.
>
> I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the tunnel,
taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice with out
removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as putting an access
panel on both sides.
>
> David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can have it
installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of deal to fabricate
your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel
filter.
>
> Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the tunnel with
out having to take everything apart. This is important for those of us
that have center consoles install.
>
> Bob
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote:
>>
>>
>> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond inconvenient
when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel filters, one on
each side, in a more convenient location such as under pilot/copilot seat or the
wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
| From: | Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> |
Another consideration is that the stock location is downstream of the
shutoff valve. If the filters are upstream of the shutoff valve you'll
have to deal with that also.
Bob
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> There are more than one way to skin a cat......
>
> The access panels allow me to inspect everything forward of the fuel
> valve. I can easily remove the filter and pump through this opening.
>
> I cut my cover at the fuel valve as to not require removing the forward
> cover unless something I find dictates it.
>
> For those of use that have center consoles, this allows us the flexibility
> of leaving the stack in place during an inspection.
>
> I then only have to remove the section aft of the cut.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Carl Froehlich
> wrote:
>
> carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
>
> Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel
> cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter
> if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy.
>
> I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow more
> clearance with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover is shorten
> enough so that I don't use the most forward screws. This one thing makes
> the cover removal/install much easier.
>
> Carl
>
> > On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:
> >
> >
> > I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel filter.
> It's not my area of expertise.
> >
> > I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side of the
> tunnel, taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken mine out twice
> with out removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks have gone as far as
> putting an access panel on both sides.
> >
> > David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you can
> have it installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not that big of
> deal to fabricate your own parts too. It only takes me 5-10 minutes to
> remove the fuel filter.
> >
> > Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of the
> tunnel with out having to take everything apart. This is important for
> those of us that have center consoles install.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be beyond
> inconvenient when inspection time comes around. What about two fuel
> filters, one on each side, in a more convenient location such as under
> pilot/copilot seat or the wing attach area? Any major reasons NOT to do
> this?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
Well, what does or doesn't need to be removed for the annual condition
inspection is dictated by what access panels exist to allow inspection
of components.
If a side panel access is installed, there is no reason that the tunnel
cover would ever need to be removed. Since I and a few others have Paul
Grimstead's Control Approach rudder pedal system, which puts the rudder
control arms through the tunnel cover, cover removal would involve
disassembly of a primary control system, something that should be
avoided for routine inspections. Thus a side panel access cover is
needed in my particular "modified" RV-10.
Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is
governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary annual
check list.
As to one filter or two, keep in mind that many type certified aircraft
do not have any filter between the tanks and the fuel servo inlet, and
if they do have one, it is often placed downstream of the boost pump,
rather than upstream as Van's has it. While filters could be put at the
wing roots, that means twice the work to service, and you would need to
be careful to locate well clear of the aileron pushrods travel.
Kelly
On 1/28/2014 4:54 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the tunnel cover
be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling the fuel filter if mounted
in the per-plan location is fairly easy.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
Also, any debris like o-rings and such that the valve throws off
will no longer be filtered. I came to the conclusion that
the filter was positioned in a decent place, and that after checking
it a few times and finding nothing, I was just going to stretch out
my inspection interval of that filter, and make it somewhat also
reliant on what I find in my regular sumpings of the tanks.
The access panel is about all I'd bother doing to improve things.
Tim
On 1/28/2014 8:20 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
> Another consideration is that the stock location is downstream of the
> shutoff valve. If the filters are upstream of the shutoff valve you'll
> have to deal with that also.
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Bob Leffler > wrote:
>
> >
>
> There are more than one way to skin a cat......
>
> The access panels allow me to inspect everything forward of the fuel
> valve. I can easily remove the filter and pump through this opening.
>
> I cut my cover at the fuel valve as to not require removing the
> forward cover unless something I find dictates it.
>
> For those of use that have center consoles, this allows us the
> flexibility of leaving the stack in place during an inspection.
>
> I then only have to remove the section aft of the cut.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 28, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Carl Froehlich
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the
> tunnel cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling
> the fuel filter if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy.
>
> I found that the tunnel cover itself needs to be shortened to allow
> more clearance with tubing and such on the forward end. The cover
> is shorten enough so that I don't use the most forward screws. This
> one thing makes the cover removal/install much easier.
>
> Carl
>
> > On Jan 28, 2014, at 5:19 AM, Bob Leffler > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I can't comment on any reasons to why not to relocate the fuel
> filter. It's not my area of expertise.
> >
> > I can share with you that if you put an access panel on the side
> of the tunnel, taking the filter out isn't a big deal. I've taken
> mine out twice with out removing the top tunnel cover. Some folks
> have gone as far as putting an access panel on both sides.
> >
> > David Ward sells a kit for this and in less than a half hour, you
> can have it installed. It's not rocket science, so it's also not
> that big of deal to fabricate your own parts too. It only takes me
> 5-10 minutes to remove the fuel filter.
> >
> > Another key benefit is being able to inspect the forward part of
> the tunnel with out having to take everything apart. This is
> important for those of us that have center consoles install.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Jan 28, 2014, at 1:11 AM, "bob88" > wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>
> >> It looks to me that the Vans fuel filter in the tunnel will be
> beyond inconvenient when inspection time comes around. What about
> two fuel filters, one on each side, in a more convenient location
> such as under pilot/copilot seat or the wing attach area? Any major
> reasons NOT to do this?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417743#417743
> r to browse
> nics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/"
> target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
On 1/28/2014 9:38 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Well, what does or doesn't need to be removed for the annual condition
> inspection is dictated by what access panels exist to allow inspection
> of components.
> If a side panel access is installed, there is no reason that the
> tunnel cover would ever need to be removed. Since I and a few others
> have Paul Grimstead's Control Approach rudder pedal system, which puts
> the rudder control arms through the tunnel cover, cover removal would
> involve disassembly of a primary control system, something that should
> be avoided for routine inspections. Thus a side panel access cover is
> needed in my particular "modified" RV-10.
I modified the rudder pedals to go through the side of the tunnel
instead of through the cover. I also have a console from the tunnel
cover up to the bottom of the instrument panel that will have to be
removed so the side access panel is a really good mod .... that I'll do.
> Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is
> governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary annual
> check list.
I'd use the word 'guided' rather than 'governed' unless things have
changed since I built my Pitts years ago. You can't go wrong using Part
43 liberally in our homebuilts.
>
> As to one filter or two, keep in mind that many type certified
> aircraft do not have any filter between the tanks and the fuel servo
> inlet, and if they do have one, it is often placed downstream of the
> boost pump, rather than upstream as Van's has it. While filters could
> be put at the wing roots, that means twice the work to service, and
> you would need to be careful to locate well clear of the aileron
> pushrods travel.
The Vans filter fits nicely under the seats ...... between the tunnel
and the fuselage side. I still might do that instead of the access panel.
Linn
> Kelly
>
> On 1/28/2014 4:54 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>
>>
>> Another way to look at this - the annual inspection requires the
>> tunnel cover be removed anyway. Once the cover is removed pulling
>> the fuel filter if mounted in the per-plan location is fairly easy.
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
Well, your Pitts probably had older operating limits language than what
is standard today. While a plane today could have different language, my
understanding of the standard ops limits requires you to use Part 43
Appendix D as a "minimum" checklist, same as it is for type certified
aircraft. You can do a more thorough, more detailed checklist, but not
less than Appendix D. One of the few sections of Part 43 that applies to
amateur built aircraft.
On 1/28/2014 8:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
>> Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is
>> governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary
>> annual check list.
> I'd use the word 'guided' rather than 'governed' unless things have
> changed since I built my Pitts years ago. You can't go wrong using
> Part 43 liberally in our homebuilts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relocating the fuel filter |
Thanks Kelly. It's taken me 35 years to get back to building ...... I
have a lot of catching up to do!!!
Linn
On 1/28/2014 10:22 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Well, your Pitts probably had older operating limits language than
> what is standard today. While a plane today could have different
> language, my understanding of the standard ops limits requires you to
> use Part 43 Appendix D as a "minimum" checklist, same as it is for
> type certified aircraft. You can do a more thorough, more detailed
> checklist, but not less than Appendix D. One of the few sections of
> Part 43 that applies to amateur built aircraft.
>
> On 1/28/2014 8:15 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>>> Keep in mind that what does or doesn't need to be inspected is
>>> governed solely by Part 43 Appendix D, not some one's arbitrary
>>> annual check list.
>> I'd use the word 'guided' rather than 'governed' unless things have
>> changed since I built my Pitts years ago. You can't go wrong using
>> Part 43 liberally in our homebuilts.
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS REM38E Spark Plugs |
| From: | "Barry" <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
Spark Plugs Sold
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417786#417786
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
If you go with the Desser Monster retreads you'll sit a bit higher and have more
clearance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417867#417867
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turf runways |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
December 06, 2013 - February 03, 2014
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-jp