RV10-Archive.digest.vol-jr
March 02, 2014 - April 07, 2014
by the lash....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419628#419628
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I didn't prime, except for where it was called for - or needed. I kept a rattle
can of "self etching primer" handy, and used a cardboard box outdoors to hit
it (wear a mask). Ask for it at any paint or auto store.
I also kept a spray can of T9 Boeshield handy - as Kelly suggested. Great product.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419629#419629
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
"I'm not quite understanding the detail you describe about the instalation of your
wingtip Comm antenna, especially when you say "then bent it down".
Do you have a picture of that? "
I do have a photo but don't know how to post it! Let me describe it a little better.
First of all, I didn't buy the Archer com; I cloned (copied) the VOR antenna (which
I did buy). I made the antenna 10% shorter to better center the frequency
in the com frequencies. I also made the coax connections inverted, so I could
make connections on the bottom side.
The ground side of the antenna is under the rivets that hold the wingtip nutplates
on the TOP side of the wing. The leading edge of the antenna is about half
way back from the front of the wing, where the wingtip is the thickest. With
the ground side of the antenna held by rivets (or clecos), I then bent the entire
remaining part of the antenna downward until the long arm of the antenna hit
the bottom of the wingtip. A few pieces of fiberglass/epoxy hold this in place.
The idea is to get the part of the antenna that has the highest current (the
part near the ground connection) as vertical as possible. I went top to bottom
rather than bottom to top because I thought that gave me a little more vertical
throw, due to the fact that the tip is not symmetric top/bottom.
If that's not clear let me know, and I'll figure out how to post a figure.
Bob
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419654#419654
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I'll try to post a photo:
[img]http://i40.tinypic.com/2lw59hj.jpg[img]
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419659#419659
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I'll try to post a photo:
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419660#419660
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paperwork question |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
Sorry if this is silly but after 30 years in the industry I've become jaded about
paperwork.
For the purposes of paperwork, would/should a paintshop be listed as "commercial
assistance"?
TIA
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419673#419673
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paperwork question |
No.
Paint is not considered part of the build. Many of us have/will obtain
airworthiness certificates with no paint at all.
Also keep in mind that the RV-10 is approved as meeting the 51%
requirement, even with quick build as long as you don't go hire someone
to build it for you.
There are some folks that may cross that threshold, but I have watch
your build from quite a long time ago, and I can vouch for your doing
the work.
On 3/2/2014 6:59 PM, woxofswa wrote:
>
> Sorry if this is silly but after 30 years in the industry I've become jaded about
paperwork.
>
> For the purposes of paperwork, would/should a paintshop be listed as "commercial
assistance"?
>
> TIA
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419673#419673
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paperwork question |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
No. The plane is not required to be painted. That is also not on the checklist,
if I'm not mistaken.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 2, 2014, at 8:59 PM, "woxofswa" wrote:
>
>
> Sorry if this is silly but after 30 years in the industry I've become jaded about
paperwork.
>
> For the purposes of paperwork, would/should a paintshop be listed as "commercial
assistance"?
>
> TIA
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419673#419673
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paperwork question |
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
I agree with Jesse, but FSDO had me list painting as commercial assistance on the
form.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 2, 2014, at 9:13 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
>
> No. The plane is not required to be painted. That is also not on the checklist,
if I'm not mistaken.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 2, 2014, at 8:59 PM, "woxofswa" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sorry if this is silly but after 30 years in the industry I've become jaded
about paperwork.
>>
>> For the purposes of paperwork, would/should a paintshop be listed as "commercial
assistance"?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419673#419673
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paperwork question |
If FAA will issue an airworthiness certificate without any particular task
being complete, then that task shouldn't be counted against 51%. So no,
painting shouldn't be listed as commercial assistance when you fill out
8130-12.
Bob, of course you pick your battles but if listing paint as commercial
assistance caused any hardship, it'd be worth arguing. I hope it didn't
matter much for you.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 5:59 PM, woxofswa wrote:
>
> Sorry if this is silly but after 30 years in the industry I've become
> jaded about paperwork.
>
> For the purposes of paperwork, would/should a paintshop be listed as
> "commercial assistance"?
>
> TIA
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF
> complete.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419673#419673
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paperwork question |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
>>no, no, no ... But FSDO made me
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419689#419689
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
I have an Archer nav in each wing, and have been very satisfied with their performance.
I mounted mine to the outboard rib of each wing, rather than in the wing
tip. Makes it easier to remove the tip on those infrequent occasions when
it is necessary.
Jim Berry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419731#419731
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
Jim
Did you install them with some kind of insulators, or are they making
contact with the outboard aluminum ribs?
Carlos
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Jim Berry
Enviada: 3 de maro de 2014 18:16
Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: RV10-List: Re: Archer wingtip antenna
I have an Archer nav in each wing, and have been very satisfied with their
performance. I mounted mine to the outboard rib of each wing, rather than in
the wing tip. Makes it easier to remove the tip on those infrequent
occasions when it is necessary.
Jim Berry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419731#419731
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
The 'ground' leg of the antenna must be tied electrically to ground, either directly
screwed or riveted to the rib, or in my case, being riveted to the nutplates
on the wingtip. In the latter case you are relying on the attach screws to
make good contact with both the nutplates and the wingskin. I removed the paint
on the skin under the screw heads.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419736#419736
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Carlos,
The long leg of the antenna is fastened to the wing rib, as Bob mentioned above.
The other 2 legs just lay on the inner surface of the wing tip, but are not
fastened to it in any way.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419738#419738
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FS: 6 Cyl Slick Mag |
| From: | "Barry" <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
Removed from IO-540 at 300 hrs to install EI and is in good condition; Slick 6350
s/n 07081193 LH Rot non Impulse/ non Retard Breaker Mag. 500 hr inspection
done I/A/W Unison L-1363B manual; installed new points, cam and carbon brush.
Case has been drilled for the G3i ignition system modification, but is plugged
with a bolt and does not affect the operation of the Mag. I am an A&P and can
give an airworthy sign off if required. $470.00 which includes shipping to ConUS
via PayPal
blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419789#419789
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Having owned a plane with filiform corrosion (a Piper), I was sensitive to the
issue. I trained with Wally Anderson at Synergy in Eugene,OR. and he primes everything
with a wash primer. I felt that if it was the way that Wally went, that
I would do the same. I feel that it added only nominal weight and it looks
great. I also used an epoxy primer from DuPont that is tough as nails on the floors
and sidewalls. My attitude is - corrosion will never be a worry for me or
the person to whom I sell the plane. My weight is 2620#.
--------
See you OSH '14
Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419819#419819
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
I hope you meant 1620#. :)
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions.
Having owned a plane with filiform corrosion (a Piper), I was sensitive to
the issue. I trained with Wally Anderson at Synergy in Eugene,OR. and he
primes everything with a wash primer. I felt that if it was the way that
Wally went, that I would do the same. I feel that it added only nominal
weight and it looks great. I also used an epoxy primer from DuPont that is
tough as nails on the floors and sidewalls. My attitude is - corrosion will
never be a worry for me or the person to whom I sell the plane. My weight is
2620#.
--------
See you OSH '14
Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419819#419819
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | WTB. Small quantity of proseal |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Wondering if anyone would sell me a small quantity of proseal and hardener --just
need probably a few oz or part of a can left over?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419826#419826
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | WTB. Small quantity of proseal |
Vans used to sell it in a 1 oz size.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:33 AM
Subject: RV10-List: WTB. Small quantity of proseal
Wondering if anyone would sell me a small quantity of proseal and hardener
--just need probably a few oz or part of a can left over?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419826#419826
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WTB. Small quantity of proseal |
order new 1 time use tube from AS&S.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?s=TANK+SEALANT&x=0&y=0
-----Original Message-----
From: rvdave
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: WTB. Small quantity of proseal
Wondering if anyone would sell me a small quantity of proseal and
hardener --just need probably a few oz or part of a can left over?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419826#419826
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WTB. Small quantity of proseal |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Ok didn't realize there was small quantity available
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419829#419829
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
| From: | Alan Mekler MD <amekler(at)metrocast.net> |
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 5, 2014, at 11:24 AM, "Rene Felker" wrote:
>
>
> I hope you meant 1620#. :)
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:58 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions.
>
>
> Having owned a plane with filiform corrosion (a Piper), I was sensitive to
> the issue. I trained with Wally Anderson at Synergy in Eugene,OR. and he
> primes everything with a wash primer. I felt that if it was the way that
> Wally went, that I would do the same. I feel that it added only nominal
> weight and it looks great. I also used an epoxy primer from DuPont that is
> tough as nails on the floors and sidewalls. My attitude is - corrosion will
> never be a worry for me or the person to whom I sell the plane. My weight is
> 2620#.
>
> --------
> See you OSH '14
> Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419819#419819
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing tip question |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
My project is in the paint shop. In a previous thread I discussed the pros/cons
of not drilling out the wingtip attach holes until after paint when I will have
the flaps and ailerons all installed.
My new question is this though. There is the w-1016 wingtip support that seals
off the aft section of the tip. I haven't drill that out yet either but I can
do before those parts get painted and then not have to touch up the paint afterwards,
but I was wondering about how much that part needs to be mated up to
the aileron or how much distortion play in can inflict on that section of the
tip. Another thought I had was to not drill it out now and rather than drill
it out later, just to epoxy it in after paint.
Any comments/suggestions appreciated.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419836#419836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Wing tip question |
As you note, wingtip rigging needs to be done last - fit the wings, then
flaps, then ailerons, then wingtips. The trailing edge of the wingtip can
move up or down a good half inch - thus you need to know where it goes
before you drill the mounting holes or wingtip rib. If not rigged properly
you can easily end up with the wingtip acting as an aileron - and since it
is as far out as it can go a small variance can create a large moment arm.
To be blunt, this should have been done during initial wing fit up, then
everything taken off for paint. As you have gone to paint without a wing
and control surface fit up I see only one path forward that does not mess up
the final paint. You paint everything but the wingtips, assemble and rig
the wings, flaps and ailerons, fit the wingtips then take the wingtips back
for paint. Many people do some glass work on the wingtips after the rib is
installed as well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 1:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Wing tip question
My project is in the paint shop. In a previous thread I discussed the
pros/cons of not drilling out the wingtip attach holes until after paint
when I will have the flaps and ailerons all installed.
My new question is this though. There is the w-1016 wingtip support that
seals off the aft section of the tip. I haven't drill that out yet either
but I can do before those parts get painted and then not have to touch up
the paint afterwards, but I was wondering about how much that part needs to
be mated up to the aileron or how much distortion play in can inflict on
that section of the tip. Another thought I had was to not drill it out now
and rather than drill it out later, just to epoxy it in after paint.
Any comments/suggestions appreciated.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419836#419836
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I agree with Carl. The wingtips should have been fit prior to paint. I had to
separate and re-glass the rear half of one of the tips to get it in alignment
properly. There is no reason that this can't be done off of the plane, but you
will need to install both the flaps and the ailerons to properly align the tip.
The W-1016 should also be installed. Only then should the tips be painted.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419842#419842
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I have one in each wing tip and they work every bit as well as my last aircraft,
which had the external cat whisker antenna. I also use them for the glide slope.
Of course by mounting them in the wing tips off of the centerline of the
aircraft, your Localizer beam will be offset by the approximate 15 fit the
antenna is off centerline :o
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419843#419843
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1631_196.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
I understand where you guys are coming from and appreciate the inputs.
In my case the paint shop is 50 yards from my hangar and since tips are Matterhorn
white only, the painter says we can do them anytime.
My goal on installation and rigging was to do it just once with virgin hardware
with each piece at it's final weight. Obviously if the paint shop location were
different I would have made other plans.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419844#419844
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
This is one of those questions that seems to come up every year or two. In my opinion,
it is one of the areas where following Van's instructions carefully is
the right way to go. My wife and I followed the instructions very carefully and
ended up with wingtips perfectly matched to the ailerons. Between us, we had
almost zero experience with these kinds of things. Maybe we were just lucky,
but I think this is one of those areas where deciding to do it differently might
increase the possibility of mis-aligned wing tips/ailerons. Their are some
areas where some of the smart people on these forums have figured out a better
mousetrap, and I have been the beneficiary of more than a few of those. But,
I don't believe wingtips are one of those.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419854#419854
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Greetings ... and minimalist priming questions. |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
yea - yea - 1620#
--------
See you OSH '14
Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419856#419856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | fuselage rolling rack |
I have finally got my RV10 project off the rack and onto it=99s
gear and no longer need the rack. It is a welded steel rack that has
worked great and I am offering it to anyone who is close enough to Las
Vegas to come and get it, for free.
Chris Hukill
hangin the motor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "Rocketman1988" <Rocketman(at)etczone.com> |
Yeah, not so sure about following the plans on the wingtip alignment. When you
get to the wingtip section, hang the flap and aileron on that wing, align them,
then fit the wingtip. If you just put the wingtip on and keep it as tight
to the skin flange as you can, YOU MAY BE UNHAPPY with the result. And the TE
of the wingtip can move 11/16"...ask me how I know :(
Luckily, I had only drilled a few holes and I had been reading the forums on this
issue, so I went back and hung the flap and aileron, then aligned them in the
specified position. Turns out that the wingtip was "off" by about 1/2 of a
hole diameter at the LE...yep, 1/16". Sure glad I checked it before drilling
the final hole size...Looks good now, within 3/32" tip/aileron/flap...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419877#419877
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "Rocketman1988" <Rocketman(at)etczone.com> |
I should add that I followed the plans exactly on this first tip and must have
gotten lucky because it matched the flap/aileron when finished...
Did the same on the second tip and, well, that's the post above...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419878#419878
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
I do remember that it was a two person job to make sure the wingtip was pushed
securely into position and held very firmly in position while the holes were drilled.
IIRC it really needs to be pushed forward with some force to fit the leading
edge properly.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419883#419883
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage rolling rack |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
I also have one in Michigan--maybe someone can put it to good use.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419890#419890
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "Ron B." <ronbelliveau(at)eastlink.ca> |
The RV-14 plans have you use a ratchet strap to pull the wing tip down into the
wing at the leading edge. Works well and the wing tips are the same tip supplied
with the RV-10. I had no problem doing this installation by myself with the
straps.
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419894#419894
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage rolling rack |
I have wooden one in Phoenix area, as well as empenage dolly, horizontal
stab jig, all available as is, where they sit.
On 3/6/2014 6:24 PM, rvdave wrote:
>
> I also have one in Michigan--maybe someone can put it to good use.
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 flying
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419890#419890
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip question |
| From: | "Rocketman1988" <Rocketman(at)etczone.com> |
Yeah, pushing the wingtip as tight as possible into the leading edge was what generated
the 11/16" difference at the TE, in my case...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419898#419898
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
I'm using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that's built up as a dummy core for
now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work. The case halves are the
actual ones that will be used on final re-assembly of the motor. The issue
I'm seeing is a missing boss mount hole for the CB-1002E fwd left support
bracket that backs the fwd left air ramp baffling. Has anyone that's used a
C4B5 ran into this? I presume the hole can be carefully located and drilled
and tapped but thought I'd ask the brain trust. See attached photos.
Ben Westfall
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
| From: | Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com> |
Yes, I had that on the engine of my first RV-10. My solution was to make a
replacement bracket to fit a hole outboard of what was shown in the plans.
Picture (fuzzy) attached to give you an idea of what I did. Never heard of
anybody else having this issue so I just made a replacement out of 3/4
angle and moved on. Hope this helps.
Bob
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
> I=99m using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that=99s built up
as a dummy core
> for now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work. The case halves
> are the actual ones that will be used on final re-assembly of the motor.
> The issue I=99m seeing is a missing boss mount hole for the CB-1002
E fwd left
> support bracket that backs the fwd left air ramp baffling. Has anyone
> that=99s used a C4B5 ran into this? I presume the hole can be care
fully
> located and drilled and tapped but thought I=99d ask the brain trus
t. See
> attached photos.
>
>
> Ben Westfall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
| From: | Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> |
I also have a C4B5, also missing mounting hole and did the same thing.
It's an opportunity to make a part (Fit).
Jim Combs
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Bob Condrey wrote:
> Yes, I had that on the engine of my first RV-10. My solution was to make
> a replacement bracket to fit a hole outboard of what was shown in the
> plans. Picture (fuzzy) attached to give you an idea of what I did. Never
> heard of anybody else having this issue so I just made a replacement out of
> 3/4 angle and moved on. Hope this helps.
>
> Bob
>
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
>
>> I'm using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that's built up as a dummy
>> core for now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work. The case
>> halves are the actual ones that will be used on final re-assembly of the
>> motor. The issue I'm seeing is a missing boss mount hole for the CB-1002E
>> fwd left support bracket that backs the fwd left air ramp baffling. Has
>> anyone that's used a C4B5 ran into this? I presume the hole can be
>> carefully located and drilled and tapped but thought I'd ask the brain
>> trust. See attached photos.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ben Westfall
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
Bummer. My fellow RV-10 builder found a similar 'flaw' on his case. He
elected to drill/tap ..... and found the bottom of the hole isn't far
from the inside of the case!!! He'll have to seal that screw well.
However, it appears that the 'hole' in your picture is far larger than
the screw. I'd clean out the hole real good, fill the hole with JB
Weld, re-drill/tap. Use Locktite on final assembly.
Linn
IMHO, of course!!!
On 3/7/2014 2:25 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
>
> I'm using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that's built up as a dummy
> core for now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work. The case
> halves are the actual ones that will be used on final re-assembly of
> the motor. The issue I'm seeing is a missing boss mount hole for the
> CB-1002E fwd left support bracket that backs the fwd left air ramp
> baffling. Has anyone that's used a C4B5 ran into this? I presume the
> hole can be carefully located and drilled and tapped but thought I'd
> ask the brain trust. See attached photos.
>
> Ben Westfall
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
The hole you see to the right is not where it goes. That will be filled
similar to Bob's pic once the motor is assembled for real. It's actually in
the boss mount area to the left of the gaping hole. I assume the C4B5 had
no reason for an accessory to mount there so Lycoming did not drill and tap
that hole.
I did not think about making the smaller front hole work with a custom
bracket. I guess I sorta figured that would be used for something else and
just dismissed it. Good to know I'll likely go this route.
Thanks All!
-Ben
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: C4B5 missing boss mount hole
Bummer. My fellow RV-10 builder found a similar 'flaw' on his case. He
elected to drill/tap ..... and found the bottom of the hole isn't far from
the inside of the case!!! He'll have to seal that screw well. However, it
appears that the 'hole' in your picture is far larger than the screw. I'd
clean out the hole real good, fill the hole with JB Weld, re-drill/tap. Use
Locktite on final assembly.
Linn
IMHO, of course!!!
On 3/7/2014 2:25 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
I'm using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that's built up as a dummy core for
now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work. The case halves are the
actual ones that will be used on final re-assembly of the motor. The issue
I'm seeing is a missing boss mount hole for the CB-1002E fwd left support
bracket that backs the fwd left air ramp baffling. Has anyone that's used a
C4B5 ran into this? I presume the hole can be carefully located and drilled
and tapped but thought I'd ask the brain trust. See attached photos.
Ben Westfall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
I had to do the same thing. Building is fun, I miss is sometimes. But,
flying is fun also
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Condrey
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: C4B5 missing boss mount hole
Yes, I had that on the engine of my first RV-10. My solution was to
make a replacement bracket to fit a hole outboard of what was shown in
the plans. Picture (fuzzy) attached to give you an idea of what I did.
Never heard of anybody else having this issue so I just made a
replacement out of 3/4 angle and moved on. Hope this helps.
Bob
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
I=99m using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that=99s built up
as a dummy core for now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work.
The case halves are the actual ones that will be used on final
re-assembly of the motor. The issue I=99m seeing is a missing
boss mount hole for the CB-1002E fwd left support bracket that backs the
fwd left air ramp baffling. Has anyone that=99s used a C4B5 ran
into this? I presume the hole can be carefully located and drilled and
tapped but thought I=99d ask the brain trust. See attached
photos.
Ben Westfall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
Just for the record the right side has a similar boss mount area that does
have holes drilled and tapped thus my assumption was the left side would
support it. The attached photo shows the right side for reference. I'd much
rather use the existing front hole than risk f'ing up the case that's for
sure.
Again, thanks and glad I asked. I must subconsciously love to do things the
hard way as I was pretty much resigned to drill and tap before Bob pointed
out what should have been obvious! Ah tunnel vision.
-Ben
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: C4B5 missing boss mount hole
Bummer. My fellow RV-10 builder found a similar 'flaw' on his case. He
elected to drill/tap ..... and found the bottom of the hole isn't far from
the inside of the case!!! He'll have to seal that screw well. However, it
appears that the 'hole' in your picture is far larger than the screw. I'd
clean out the hole real good, fill the hole with JB Weld, re-drill/tap. Use
Locktite on final assembly.
Linn
IMHO, of course!!!
On 3/7/2014 2:25 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
I'm using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that's built up as a dummy core for
now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work. The case halves are the
actual ones that will be used on final re-assembly of the motor. The issue
I'm seeing is a missing boss mount hole for the CB-1002E fwd left support
bracket that backs the fwd left air ramp baffling. Has anyone that's used a
C4B5 ran into this? I presume the hole can be carefully located and drilled
and tapped but thought I'd ask the brain trust. See attached photos.
Ben Westfall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | C4B5 missing boss mount hole |
For the further record=85 I checked on the reason for that =BD=94 hole
right of
the boss mount seeing that Bob=92s appeared to be plugged. That is for
a
through bolt that is just not currently installed on my =93fake=94
motor. Bob=92s
picture showed what appears as a plug bit is really the back end of a
bolt.
His case must be an older vintage where the through bolt threads into
the
case half, newer ones get a heavy nut and washer instead.
-Ben
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: C4B5 missing boss mount hole
Bummer. My fellow RV-10 builder found a similar 'flaw' on his case. He
elected to drill/tap ..... and found the bottom of the hole isn't far
from
the inside of the case!!! He'll have to seal that screw well. However,
it
appears that the 'hole' in your picture is far larger than the screw.
I'd
clean out the hole real good, fill the hole with JB Weld, re-drill/tap.
Use
Locktite on final assembly.
Linn
IMHO, of course!!!
On 3/7/2014 2:25 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
I=92m using an IO-540 C4B5 off of an Aztec that=92s built up as a dummy
core for
now so I can do the initial cowl and baffling work. The case halves are
the
actual ones that will be used on final re-assembly of the motor. The
issue
I=92m seeing is a missing boss mount hole for the CB-1002E fwd left
support
bracket that backs the fwd left air ramp baffling. Has anyone that=92s
used a
C4B5 ran into this? I presume the hole can be carefully located and
drilled
and tapped but thought I=92d ask the brain trust. See attached photos.
Ben Westfall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Hansen <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com> |
OK, too many days with 0 messages so here we go: Today my wife passed her private
pilot ck ride. She is on cloud nine, and can hardly wait to fly the 10!
Not done yet, finishing panel, but something to look forward to as a family!
Rich Hansen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:02 AM, RV10-List Digest Server
wrote:
>
> This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
sender to send it again using a different format or email program. (null)/(null)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Something Cool! |
That is great news! Congratulations to her. You will find it very valuable at
times to have 2 in the cockpit. But now you'll have to fight for your stick
time. ;)
Tim
> On Mar 12, 2014, at 12:59 AM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>
>
> OK, too many days with 0 messages so here we go: Today my wife passed her private
pilot ck ride. She is on cloud nine, and can hardly wait to fly the 10!
Not done yet, finishing panel, but something to look forward to as a family!
>
> Rich Hansen
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:02 AM, RV10-List Digest Server
wrote:
>>
>> This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
sender to send it again using a different format or email program. (null)/(null)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Whelen Stobes for sale |
| From: | "rngurley" <rngurley(at)att.net> |
I have a full Whelen aircraft strobe set for sale. This includes a HDACF power
supply, A500-14-H tail position and strobe, and one each red and green A650-PR-14
wing tip strobes. Also included is strobe wiring for a small aircraft. All
units are new and never installed.
This $1200 package is available for $600 plus shipping. Please contact me off post
at rngurley(at)att.net if interested
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420195#420195
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karol Hansen <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com> |
Thanks Tim and Bob. Tim, please tell Andrea that she was an inspiration for
Karol getting her license!
Yeah, Im sure well be fighting for stick time too, but, its all good.
Also, I know you guys have heard it a bunch, but neither of you will ever know
how valuable your web sites
are to us builders in all stages. Some of us are even repeat offenders but it
is still invaluable to be able to
see a picture of what someone else did, where they put something, what source they
got it from, how something
is supposed to look post completion, etc etc. And, so to Tim and Bob a big THANKS
for taking the time
to share there experiences, pictures, (and flights) with us all!
Some exciting write-ups of trips to the Bahamas in the RV-10 sure dont hurt either
when those days of
building go by and you punched out about 12 hours of work with seemingly little
to show for it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
Congrats Karol. That's really cool
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rich Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 2:00 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Something Cool!
OK, too many days with 0 messages so here we go: Today my wife passed her
private pilot ck ride. She is on cloud nine, and can hardly wait to fly the
10! Not done yet, finishing panel, but something to look forward to as a
family!
Rich Hansen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:02 AM, RV10-List Digest Server
wrote:
>
> This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted.
> Ask the sender to send it again using a different format or email
> program. (null)/(null)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
Ive been watching Barnstormers.com for some time, keeping an eye out for RV-10s
for sale. Mine has been an absolute blessing but as the family grows I am considering
moving up to a six place twin. Ive been impressed with the price most
everyone has been asking for their airplane, but have no clue what they are
actually selling for. Does anyone have any idea on how the sell price has played
out relative to the asking price? Clearly it depends on the airplane, but
with the asking prices typically between $180K and $220K Id be curious to see
what the selling range actually turns out to be.
Thanks,
Marcus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
While Im at it, how are people pricing their RV-10s, it seems like a lot of Zen
and wishful thinking to be honest.
Thanks again,
Marcus
On Mar 16, 2014, at 10:15 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
Ive been watching Barnstormers.com for some time, keeping an eye out for RV-10s
for sale. Mine has been an absolute blessing but as the family grows I am considering
moving up to a six place twin. Ive been impressed with the price most
everyone has been asking for their airplane, but have no clue what they are
actually selling for. Does anyone have any idea on how the sell price has played
out relative to the asking price? Clearly it depends on the airplane, but
with the asking prices typically between $180K and $220K Id be curious to see
what the selling range actually turns out to be.
Thanks,
Marcus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just reduce the size of your family?=C2- Just k
idding.=C2- Just remember when you get the twin, even a short trip for lu
nch will really be a hundred dollar hamburger.... and you can't even have t
he fries.=0AOne guy here got a great deal on a twin, refurbished everything
, and by the time he was done he had spent as much as if he would have just
bought or built an RV.... and now he rarely goes flying with all of us bec
ause of the fuel expense.=C2- Maintenance is higher and annuals are more
expensive.=C2- Good luck=0A=0AConsidered a second RV?=0A=0ADon =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7@yaho
o.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:33 P
M=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Selling prices=0A =0A=0A--> RV10-List message p
osted by: Marcus Cooper =0A=0AWhile I=99m at it, h
ow are people pricing their RV-10s, it seems like a lot of Zen and wishful
thinking to be honest.=0A=0AThanks again,=0AMarcus=0A=0AOn Mar 16, 2014, at
10:15 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:=0A=0A--> RV10-List mess
age posted by: Marcus Cooper =0A=0AI=99ve been wat
ching Barnstormers.com for some time, keeping an eye out for RV-10s for sal
e.=C2- Mine has been an absolute blessing but as the family grows I am co
nsidering moving up to a six place twin.=C2- I=99ve been impressed
with the price most everyone has been asking for their airplane, but have n
o clue what they are actually selling for.=C2- Does anyone have any idea
on how the sell price has played out relative to the asking price?=C2- Cl
early it depends on the airplane, but with the asking prices typically betw
een $180K and $220K I=99d be curious to see what the selling range ac
tually turns out to be.=0A=0AThanks,=0AMarcus=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
==C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
==C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
| From: | Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> |
Well aware of all the concerns, just trying to get an idea of how to potenti
ally price the machine. Unfortunately two RVs is not a viable solution, my w
ife is too happy as a passenger. However, with the proceeds from my -10 I ma
y be able to get a fair C-310 and build my fourth RV with a -7 this time for
the solo and dual flights. We'll see.
Thanks,
Marcus
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Don McDonald wr
ote:
>
> Wouldn't it be cheaper to just reduce the size of your family? Just kiddi
ng. Just remember when you get the twin, even a short trip for lunch will r
eally be a hundred dollar hamburger.... and you can't even have the fries.
> One guy here got a great deal on a twin, refurbished everything, and by th
e time he was done he had spent as much as if he would have just bought or b
uilt an RV.... and now he rarely goes flying with all of us because of the f
uel expense. Maintenance is higher and annuals are more expensive. Good lu
ck
>
> Considered a second RV?
>
> Don
>
>
> From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Selling prices
>
>
> While I=99m at it, how are people pricing their RV-10s, it seems lik
e a lot of Zen and wishful thinking to be honest.
>
> Thanks again,
> Marcus
>
> On Mar 16, 2014, at 10:15 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
>
> I=99ve been watching Barnstormers.com for some time, keeping an eye o
ut for RV-10s for sale. Mine has been an absolute blessing but as the famil
y grows I am considering moving up to a six place twin. I=99ve been i
mpressed with the price most everyone has been asking for their airplane, bu
t have no clue what they are actually selling for. Does anyone have any ide
a on how the sell price has played out relative to the asking price? Clearl
y it depends on the airplane, but with the asking prices typically between $
180K and $220K I=99d be curious to see what the selling range actually
turns out to ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank"
>http://www.m= -->
>
>
>
>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil & Sarah Colliver <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
Yeh - we=92re in the same boat.
7 children plus a wife who does fly!
So I need another two RV10=92s.
Much more likely to sell the one we have & get a couple of RV12=92s to
train the children in.
But the NZ aviation market is dead flat.
So if anyone wants a nice RV10 kitted out for oceanic flying, let me
know. Especially if they have a couple of RV12=92s for exchange!
But in your case - I=92d agree with Tim. Everyone=92s wife should learn
to fly.
Neil
ZK-RVT
On 18/03/2014, at 4:18 am, Don McDonald
wrote:
> Wouldn't it be cheaper to just reduce the size of your family? Just
kidding. Just remember when you get the twin, even a short trip for
lunch will really be a hundred dollar hamburger.... and you can't even
have the fries.
> One guy here got a great deal on a twin, refurbished everything, and
by the time he was done he had spent as much as if he would have just
bought or built an RV.... and now he rarely goes flying with all of us
because of the fuel expense. Maintenance is higher and annuals are more
expensive. Good luck
>
> Considered a second RV?
>
> Don
>
>
> From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Selling prices
>
>
> While I=92m at it, how are people pricing their RV-10s, it seems like
a lot of Zen and wishful thinking to be honest.
>
> Thanks again,
> Marcus
>
> On Mar 16, 2014, at 10:15 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
>
> I=92ve been watching Barnstormers.com for some time, keeping an eye
out for RV-10s for sale. Mine has been an absolute blessing but as the
family grows I am considering moving up to a six place twin. I=92ve
been impressed with the price most everyone has been asking for their
airplane, but have no clue what they are actually selling for. Does
anyone have any idea on how the sell price has played out relative to
the asking price? Clearly it depends on the airplane, but with the
asking prices typically between $180K and $220K I=92d be curious to see
what the selling range actually turns out to
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target="_blank">http://www.m= -->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
I'm in the same boat as you, Neil. With #8 on the way, I would have to
go with a Caravan to fly everybody. I guess I have to stick with flying
my Suburban low and slow (0AGL and 60Kts) when traveling with the
family. I do like the idea, however, of going with a bigger plane for
the family and then building a 7.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Mar 17, 2014, at 1:35 PM, Neil & Sarah Colliver
wrote:
> Yeh - we=92re in the same boat.
>
> 7 children plus a wife who does fly!
>
> So I need another two RV10=92s.
>
> Much more likely to sell the one we have & get a couple of RV12=92s to
train the children in.
>
> But the NZ aviation market is dead flat.
> So if anyone wants a nice RV10 kitted out for oceanic flying, let me
know. Especially if they have a couple of RV12=92s for exchange!
>
> But in your case - I=92d agree with Tim. Everyone=92s wife should
learn to fly.
>
> Neil
> ZK-RVT
>
> On 18/03/2014, at 4:18 am, Don McDonald
wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it be cheaper to just reduce the size of your family? Just
kidding. Just remember when you get the twin, even a short trip for
lunch will really be a hundred dollar hamburger.... and you can't even
have the fries.
>> One guy here got a great deal on a twin, refurbished everything, and
by the time he was done he had spent as much as if he would have just
bought or built an RV.... and now he rarely goes flying with all of us
because of the fuel expense. Maintenance is higher and annuals are more
expensive. Good luck
>>
>> Considered a second RV?
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Selling prices
>>
>>
>> While I=92m at it, how are people pricing their RV-10s, it seems like
a lot of Zen and wishful thinking to be honest.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Marcus
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2014, at 10:15 PM, Marcus Cooper
wrote:
>>
>>
>> I=92ve been watching Barnstormers.com for some time, keeping an eye
out for RV-10s for sale. Mine has been an absolute blessing but as the
family grows I am considering moving up to a six place twin. I=92ve
been impressed with the price most everyone has been asking for their
airplane, but have no clue what they are actually selling for. Does
anyone have any idea on how the sell price has played out relative to
the asking price? Clearly it depends on the airplane, but with the
asking prices typically between $180K and $220K I=92d be curious to see
what the selling range actually turns out to
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target="_blank">http://www.m= -->
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> new,courier">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil & Sarah Colliver <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
Congratulations on #8!
The older ones are now very useful on the farm & work hard.
Homeschooling makes this easier of course.
Just need to slot in aviation as one of their subjects.
We have flown in the Airvan - just enough seats & IO540. But a bit like
the landrover we have!
Neil
On 18/03/2014, at 7:02 am, Jesse Saint wrote:
> I'm in the same boat as you, Neil. With #8 on the way, I would have to
go with a Caravan to fly everybody. I guess I have to stick with flying
my Suburban low and slow (0AGL and 60Kts) when traveling with the
family. I do like the idea, however, of going with a bigger plane for
the family and then building a 7.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 1:35 PM, Neil & Sarah Colliver
wrote:
>
>> Yeh - we=92re in the same boat.
>>
>> 7 children plus a wife who does fly!
>>
>> So I need another two RV10=92s.
>>
>> Much more likely to sell the one we have & get a couple of RV12=92s
to train the children in.
>>
>> But the NZ aviation market is dead flat.
>> So if anyone wants a nice RV10 kitted out for oceanic flying, let me
know. Especially if they have a couple of RV12=92s for exchange!
>>
>> But in your case - I=92d agree with Tim. Everyone=92s wife should
learn to fly.
>>
>> Neil
>> ZK-RVT
>>
>> On 18/03/2014, at 4:18 am, Don McDonald
wrote:
>>
>>> Wouldn't it be cheaper to just reduce the size of your family? Just
kidding. Just remember when you get the twin, even a short trip for
lunch will really be a hundred dollar hamburger.... and you can't even
have the fries.
>>> One guy here got a great deal on a twin, refurbished everything, and
by the time he was done he had spent as much as if he would have just
bought or built an RV.... and now he rarely goes flying with all of us
because of the fuel expense. Maintenance is higher and annuals are more
expensive. Good luck
>>>
>>> Considered a second RV?
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
>>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Selling prices
>>>
>>>
>>> While I=92m at it, how are people pricing their RV-10s, it seems
like a lot of Zen and wishful thinking to be honest.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>> On Mar 16, 2014, at 10:15 PM, Marcus Cooper
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I=92ve been watching Barnstormers.com for some time, keeping an eye
out for RV-10s for sale. Mine has been an absolute blessing but as the
family grows I am considering moving up to a six place twin. I=92ve
been impressed with the price most everyone has been asking for their
airplane, but have no clue what they are actually selling for. Does
anyone have any idea on how the sell price has played out relative to
the asking price? Clearly it depends on the airplane, but with the
asking prices typically between $180K and $220K I=92d be curious to see
what the selling range actually turns out to
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target="_blank">http://www.m= -->
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> new,courier">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
It wouldn't help Jesse, but when is Van coming out with the six-seat
RV-26? :)
-Sean #40303 (Getting ready to weight and can almost hear the engine
purring)
> Jesse Saint
> March 17, 2014 at 1:02 PM
> I'm in the same boat as you, Neil. With #8 on the way, I would have to
> go with a Caravan to fly everybody. I guess I have to stick with
> flying my Suburban low and slow (0AGL and 60Kts) when traveling with
> the family. I do like the idea, however, of going with a bigger plane
> for the family and then building a 7.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> |
For six seats wouldn't a Cherokee six be more economical to maintain than a
twin?
Bill Greenley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Selling prices
It wouldn't help Jesse, but when is Van coming out with the six-seat RV-26?
:)
-Sean #40303 (Getting ready to weight and can almost hear the engine
purring)
> Jesse Saint March 17, 2014 at 1:02 PM
> I'm in the same boat as you, Neil. With #8 on the way, I would have to
> go with a Caravan to fly everybody. I guess I have to stick with
> flying my Suburban low and slow (0AGL and 60Kts) when traveling with
> the family. I do like the idea, however, of going with a bigger plane
> for the family and then building a 7.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
Look at the Aztec if it fits it will haul
It
Sent from my iPhone
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling & Design
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 2:46 PM, "William Greenley" wrote:
>
>
> For six seats wouldn't a Cherokee six be more economical to maintain than a
> twin?
> Bill Greenley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 2:38 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Selling prices
>
>
> It wouldn't help Jesse, but when is Van coming out with the six-seat RV-26?
> :)
>
> -Sean #40303 (Getting ready to weight and can almost hear the engine
> purring)
>
>> Jesse Saint March 17, 2014 at 1:02 PM
>> I'm in the same boat as you, Neil. With #8 on the way, I would have to
>> go with a Caravan to fly everybody. I guess I have to stick with
>> flying my Suburban low and slow (0AGL and 60Kts) when traveling with
>> the family. I do like the idea, however, of going with a bigger plane
>> for the family and then building a 7.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Selling prices |
| From: | Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com> |
You may also consider the Murphy Moose! It's a slightly smaller Beaver. 6 place
total but can be configured with more seats for kids.
People use the tsio-540 or the M14p or the T-Moose uses a pt-6a but that uses 24gph
of jet A.
Gotta love the experimental market!
On Mar 17, 2014, at 12:38, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> It wouldn't help Jesse, but when is Van coming out with the six-seat RV-26? :)
>
> -Sean #40303 (Getting ready to weight and can almost hear the engine purring)
>
>> Jesse Saint
>> March 17, 2014 at 1:02 PM
>> I'm in the same boat as you, Neil. With #8 on the way, I would have to go with
a Caravan to fly everybody. I guess I have to stick with flying my Suburban
low and slow (0AGL and 60Kts) when traveling with the family. I do like the idea,
however, of going with a bigger plane for the family and then building a
7.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> |
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these
decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I
was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like
to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle
portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of
the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably
accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons
is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've
considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up
a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in
tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more
weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other
solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably
adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people
put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the
general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the straps
attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A simple
opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle
valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the
passenger's left leg. I use the AL682 bottle - more than enough for my
needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each got
a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we can
charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or
so it does not break the bank.
If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for
mounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my
wife's one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
Aileron trim - put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control unit and an
Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions,
since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering
how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to
mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle
portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of
the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably
accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is
a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've
considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a
ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks
don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in
the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate
to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in
aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general
consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
MH for me too. I bought the O2D2 from MH and love it for the front two
passengers and regulators for the rear.
I agree with Carl, Van=99s aileron trim is simple and works great
with the Infinity grips.
Fuel- buy a fuel selector with Left, Right, Off and AUX. you can plug
it at first and see if you end up wanting more fuel later.
From: Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 5:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these
decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I
was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd
like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the
bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through
the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to
be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60
gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve).
I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to
hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip
slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put
significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for
(vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably
adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people
put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like
the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my opi
nion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich"
wrote:
>
> Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the strap
s attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A simp
le opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle v
alve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the p
assenger=99s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle =93 more than eno
ugh for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
>
> At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each go
t a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we can
charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or s
o it does not break the bank.
>
> If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for mou
nting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife
=99s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
>
> Aileron trim =93 put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control un
it and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
>
> Carl
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
>
> I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decision
s, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wonderi
ng how people had done some of the following:
>
> 1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like t
o mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle port
able, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the a
ircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessi
ble?
>
> 2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons i
s a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've consid
ered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry
tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't
carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the w
ings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
>
> 3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequa
te to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in ai
leron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general co
nsensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
>
> Steve
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
Interesting discussion. I have all 3 trims in my -10 and I very seldom use h
e aileron trim, although I do use it. I am usually flying on the auto pilot a
nd then trimming the rudder levels the plane.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Michael Kraus wr
ote:
>
> Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my o
pinion....
> -Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
>>
>> Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the stra
ps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A sim
ple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle v
alve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the p
assenger=99s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle =93 more than eno
ugh for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
>>
>> At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each g
ot a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we ca
n charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or
so it does not break the bank.
>>
>> If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for mo
unting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife
=99s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
>>
>> Aileron trim =93 put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control u
nit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
>>
>> I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisio
ns, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wonder
ing how people had done some of the following:
>>
>> 1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like
to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle po
rtable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of th
e aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably acce
ssible?
>>
>> 2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons
is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've cons
idered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a fer
ry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don
't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in th
e wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
>>
>> 3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequ
ate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in a
ileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general c
onsensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>>
>
>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
1. Aerox O2 tank on top of the tunnel, valve between the front seats.
2. Rudder trim is a fixed wedge, that's all I need. Plane climbs so well it is
not a big deal to hold rudder during climb.
3. No aileron trim, I keep it balanced pretty well with 30 minute fuel tank changes.
I also use the autopilot in cruise.
4. Nearly always run lean of peak, 160 KTAS with less than 10 gal/hr gives me 5
+ 1 hour endurance, that's plenty for me.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420515#420515
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
I agree with Jesse. All three. I have auto trim on elevator which is
Awesome.
As for o2 portable sits on tunnel between front and rear seats
And can service front and rear passengers with ease and can be removed in se
conds
Geoff Combs
Sent from my iPhone
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling & Design
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> Interesting discussion. I have all 3 trims in my -10 and I very seldom use
he aileron trim, although I do use it. I am usually flying on the auto pilo
t and then trimming the rudder levels the plane.
>
> Jesse
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Michael Kraus w
rote:
>>
>> Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my o
pinion....
>> -Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
>>>
>>> Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the str
aps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A si
mple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle
valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the
passenger=99s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle =93 more than e
nough for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
>>>
>>> At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each g
ot a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we ca
n charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or
so it does not break the bank.
>>>
>>> If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for m
ounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife
=99s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
>>>
>>> Aileron trim =93 put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control u
nit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
>>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
>>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
>>>
>>> I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisi
ons, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wonde
ring how people had done some of the following:
>>>
>>> 1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd lik
e to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle p
ortable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of t
he aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably acc
essible?
>>>
>>> 2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallon
s is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've con
sidered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a fe
rry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks do
n't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in t
he wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
>>>
>>> 3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adeq
uate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in a
ileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general c
onsensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
Since the aileron trim can be added at any time, after you are flying, I
see no reason to install unless you really feel a need after you are flying.
IMHO, 4 hours of IFR flying is the max I want to do solo. Since I very
rarely have another instrument rated pilot with me, 5 hours of range is
plenty for me to cover reserves. 4 hours will get you almost 500 nm.
I've used Aerox tank for years. Probably will add MH pulse demand unit.
I've flown LOP for years with my 4 cyl Mooney and expect will be same in
the RV.
On 3/17/2014 6:59 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> 1. Aerox O2 tank on top of the tunnel, valve between the front seats.
> 2. Rudder trim is a fixed wedge, that's all I need. Plane climbs so well it is
not a big deal to hold rudder during climb.
> 3. No aileron trim, I keep it balanced pretty well with 30 minute fuel tank changes.
I also use the autopilot in cruise.
> 4. Nearly always run lean of peak, 160 KTAS with less than 10 gal/hr gives me
5 + 1 hour endurance, that's plenty for me.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420515#420515
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
3) Aileron trim:- I fly solo most of the time (sadly) if you will as
well get it! I have my aileron trimmed for most of my early flights
after refueling due to the left side sitting lower than the right. With
the trim the plane flies straight, as the fuel burns off the left I
retrim back to center. I didn=99t think I would use it, but glad I
have it. You can easily add it in the future, although it is easier to
add the trim with the skins off.
I have a Don Mcdonald special- otherwise known as a aluminum tab bended
to make for a perfectly trimmed rudder in cruise.
Pascal
From: Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these
decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I
was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd
like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the
bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through
the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to
be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60
gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve).
I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to
hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip
slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put
significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for
(vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably
adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people
put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like
the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
If you don't install it right away, you may want to at least run the servo
wires. I just find that doing things the way you want it the first time
makes for a lot less frustration. Rework always takes much extra time.
One correction though. 4 hours will get you MORE than 500nm...probably
close to 650nm actually, even LOP. The plane is more fun than you'd
imagine.
I don't have the MH system, but, for anyone planning on seriously
using O2, I think it's the best system out there. I wish I had it, but
to get what I want would cost more than I'm currently willing to buy.
That said, there will be a day, post kids-at-home, that I'll just buy it.
Tim
On 3/17/2014 10:09 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Since the aileron trim can be added at any time, after you are flying,
> I see no reason to install unless you really feel a need after you are
> flying.
> IMHO, 4 hours of IFR flying is the max I want to do solo. Since I very
> rarely have another instrument rated pilot with me, 5 hours of range
> is plenty for me to cover reserves. 4 hours will get you almost 500 nm.
> I've used Aerox tank for years. Probably will add MH pulse demand unit.
> I've flown LOP for years with my 4 cyl Mooney and expect will be same
> in the RV.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
Either I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS principal.- Defi
nitely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for the other two.-
I fly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to the Sacramento area.
... both directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN).- Both legs are 600 t
o 630nm.- My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoenix) to 0tx1, it wa
s 747nm and I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons remaining.- This w
as without a normal wonderful tailwind.=0ANotice you talked about hours and
not actual range.... how FAR are you looking to fly?=0ADon McDonald=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Steven DeFord <riveteddrago
n(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, March 17, 2014
6:56 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.=0A =0A=0A
=0AI realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisi
ons, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wond
ering how people had done some of the following:=0A=0A1) -Oxygen: -With
the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort
of oxygen system. -Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not
have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, whe
re have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?=0A=0A2
) -Fuel: -Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallon
s is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). -I've
considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up
a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tan
ks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weigh
t in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). -Other sol
utions?=0A=0A3) -Aileron trim: -The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's
probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do
people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? -It seems
like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."=0A=0ASteve
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
Well, as always, the farther/faster the better, but nonstop from San Francis
co-Seattle and SF to Tucson are the more typical mission. If 650-700 mi ran
ge is plausible with IFR reserves, that's probably adequate. Does that mand
ate LoP and tune injectors, or just throttle back a bit?
Steven DeFord
RivetedDragon(at)gmail.com
(925) 596-0426 (cell)
On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:56, Don McDonald wrote:
> Either I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS principal. Defin
itely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for the other two. I f
ly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to the Sacramento area.... b
oth directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN). Both legs are 600 to 630nm.
My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoenix) to 0tx1, it was 747nm and
I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons remaining. This was without a n
ormal wonderful tailwind.
> Notice you talked about hours and not actual range.... how FAR are you loo
king to fly?
> Don McDonald
>
> From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:56 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
>
> I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decision
s, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wonderi
ng how people had done some of the following:
>
> 1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like t
o mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle port
able, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the a
ircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessi
ble?
>
> 2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons i
s a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've consid
ered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry
tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't
carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the w
ings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
>
> 3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequa
te to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in ai
leron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general co
nsensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
>
> Steve
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listofollow" target="_blank" hre
f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
700 nm plus alternate plus ifr reserve (no wind) can be done LOP, or by throttling
well back. I suspect the majority of owners are crusing LOP. It's easy and
inexpensive to tune injectors. Save gas, low CHTs. What's not to like?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420528#420528
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
As for a portable O2 system, SkyOx has been the cheapest I've found. We have
a mount between the rear seats that straps the tank in place. It's easy to l
eave it home when desired.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:30 PM, "g.combs" wr
ote:
>
> I agree with Jesse. All three. I have auto trim on elevator which is
> Awesome.
>
> As for o2 portable sits on tunnel between front and rear seats
> And can service front and rear passengers with ease and can be removed in s
econds
>
>
> Geoff Combs
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Geoff Combs
> Aerosport Modeling & Design
>
>
>
>
>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>>
>> Interesting discussion. I have all 3 trims in my -10 and I very seldom us
e he aileron trim, although I do use it. I am usually flying on the auto pil
ot and then trimming the rudder levels the plane.
>>
>> Jesse
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Michael Kraus w
rote:
>>>
>>> Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my
opinion....
>>> -Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the st
raps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A s
imple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottl
e valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to th
e passenger=99s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle =93 more than e
nough for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
>>>>
>>>> At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each
got a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we c
an charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year o
r so it does not break the bank.
>>>>
>>>> If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for m
ounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife
=99s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
>>>>
>>>> Aileron trim =93 put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control
unit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
>>>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
>>>>
>>>> I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decis
ions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wond
ering how people had done some of the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd li
ke to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle p
ortable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of t
he aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably acc
essible?
>>>>
>>>> 2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallo
ns is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've co
nsidered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a f
erry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks d
on't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in t
he wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
>>>>
>>>> 3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably ade
quate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in
aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general
consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
Depending on winds, that's a reasonable range with standard tanks with IFR r
eserve. You may have to pull back a bit and run LOP also, but it should work
for you. An extra 15gal w the tip tanks would certainly help.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 1:18 AM, Steven DeFord wrote
:
>
> Well, as always, the farther/faster the better, but nonstop from San Franc
isco-Seattle and SF to Tucson are the more typical mission. If 650-700 mi r
ange is plausible with IFR reserves, that's probably adequate. Does that ma
ndate LoP and tune injectors, or just throttle back a bit?
>
> Steven DeFord
> RivetedDragon(at)gmail.com
> (925) 596-0426 (cell)
>
>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:56, Don McDonald wrot
e:
>>
>> Either I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS principal. Defi
nitely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for the other two. I f
ly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to the Sacramento area.... b
oth directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN). Both legs are 600 to 630nm.
My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoenix) to 0tx1, it was 747nm and
I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons remaining. This was without a n
ormal wonderful tailwind.
>> Notice you talked about hours and not actual range.... how FAR are you lo
oking to fly?
>> Don McDonald
>>
>> From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com>
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:56 PM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
>>
>> I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisio
ns, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wonder
ing how people had done some of the following:
>>
>> 1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like
to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle po
rtable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of th
e aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably acce
ssible?
>>
>> 2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons
is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've cons
idered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a fer
ry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don
't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in th
e wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
>>
>> 3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequ
ate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in a
ileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general c
onsensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
>>
>> Steve
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listofollow" target="_blank" hr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
=========
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> =========================
=========
>> cs.com
>> =========================
=========
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> =========================
=========
>>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
You'll want to fly LOP... the whole process is really pretty simple... plus
when you're done adjusting and flying a bit, you know more about your plan
e and it's performance than you would have otherwise.=0AOne thing that some
of you might not know.... was flying from Newport OR down the coast to Gol
d Beach, and had an unbelievable tailwind. (4 souls on board) When I levele
d off at 3,500' (to sight see) and went LOP... I glanced down and I was onl
y getting 16.5mpg.... after a little thinking, I sped up about 20 mph, and
like magic, I was now getting 18.5mpg.- So there is a minimum speed neede
d to achieve the best economy.- (Around 150mph indicated)- Had I been a
t 10,000+ feet I would have probably been seeing 23 to 25 mpg... as I have
on several return trips from Calif back to Texas.- (see attached pic)=0AS
o, the point here is that you can throttle back to far, which will not allo
w you to fly farther.=0ADon McDonald =0A=0APic attached shows what can be a
chieved with a good tailwind.- At 2,100 rpm,half throttle, and LOP, you c
an still not only run fast, but run efficiently.- Notice IAS still around
150mph.- Seems to be the sweet spot for my 10. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________
______________________=0A From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com>=0AT
o: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Tuesday, Ma
rch 18, 2014 12:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List'
s brain.=0A =0A=0A=0AWell, as always, the farther/faster the better, but no
nstop from San Francisco-Seattle and SF to Tucson are the more typical miss
ion. -If 650-700 mi range is plausible with IFR reserves, that's probably
adequate. -Does that mandate LoP and tune injectors, or just throttle ba
ck a bit?=0A=0ASteven DeFord=0ARivetedDragon(at)gmail.com=0A(925) 596-0426 (ce
ll)=0A=0AOn Mar 17, 2014, at 21:56, Don McDonald wrote:=0A=0A=0AEither I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS
principal.- Definitely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for
the other two.- I fly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to th
e Sacramento area.... both directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN).- B
oth legs are 600 to 630nm.- My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoen
ix) to 0tx1, it was 747nm and I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons re
maining.- This was without a normal wonderful tailwind.=0A>Notice you tal
ked about hours and not actual range.... how FAR are you looking to fly?=0A
>Don McDonald=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A> From:
Steven DeFord =0A>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0A
>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:56 PM=0A>Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Ma
tronics List's brain.=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>I realize that it's a bit early for m
e to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway
through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the fo
llowing:=0A>=0A>=0A>1) -Oxygen: -With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR
performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. -Assuming I w
ant to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a tr
uck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle
so as to be reasonably accessible?=0A>=0A>=0A>2) -Fuel: -Unless running
LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purpos
es (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). -I've considered adding a bit of f
uel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the b
ack seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough,
and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they wer
en't designed for (vs. the cabin). -Other solutions?=0A>=0A>=0A>3) -Ail
eron trim: -The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to
just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron
trim, and if so, have they used it much? -It seems like the general cons
ensus on the websites is "Don't bother."=0A>=0A>=0A>Steve=0A>http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www
.matronics.com/contribution">h =0A>=0A>=0A>==========
=0A://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0A=========
==0Acs.com=0A====================
================0Amatronics.com/contribution
=0A========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
The -10 climbs so well, and cruises so well up high, that I would suggest you consider
permanent mount O2. I have a MH 4-place demand setup, and love it. With
2 tanks and transfill setup in my hangar, I top off the MH tank before most
long xcountries.
I live in CO and fly long trips over the mountains. Typical flight is between 12-16,000,
LOP, WOT from takeoff to landing. Last week we did Denver to Loreto
MX with one fuel stop at Sierra Vista. Maxed out the pee bottles.
I know some people like to fly low to check out the scenery, but in my neck of
the woods that frequently puts you out of radio/radar contact. I also like the
extra altitude if the whirly thing up front quits.
Can you do without aileron trim? Sure, but in the -10, why? The install and expense
is infinitesimal in the overall scheme of things. If you are planning long
trips, fly in trim and wring out every knot the plane is capable of.
Jim Berry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420558#420558
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> |
Where'd you mount the bottle? Behind the baggage compartment seems awkward to
get to in order to fill, and I'd like to be able to fill the tank at an FBO without
requiring an oxygen truck going to a port on the plane. It seems like tucked
in behind the rear seats makes sense, although that reduces baggage space...
Steven DeFord
RivetedDragon(at)gmail.com
(925) 596-0426 (cell)
On Mar 18, 2014, at 13:01, "Jim Berry" wrote:
>
> The -10 climbs so well, and cruises so well up high, that I would suggest you
consider permanent mount O2. I have a MH 4-place demand setup, and love it. With
2 tanks and transfill setup in my hangar, I top off the MH tank before most
long xcountries.
>
> I live in CO and fly long trips over the mountains. Typical flight is between
12-16,000, LOP, WOT from takeoff to landing. Last week we did Denver to Loreto
MX with one fuel stop at Sierra Vista. Maxed out the pee bottles.
>
> I know some people like to fly low to check out the scenery, but in my neck of
the woods that frequently puts you out of radio/radar contact. I also like the
extra altitude if the whirly thing up front quits.
>
> Can you do without aileron trim? Sure, but in the -10, why? The install and expense
is infinitesimal in the overall scheme of things. If you are planning long
trips, fly in trim and wring out every knot the plane is capable of.
>
> Jim Berry
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420558#420558
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
My O2 bottle is mounted behind the baggage bulkhead, with the fill valve mounted
through the bulkhead and accessible from the baggage area. I carry a 10 foot
long fill tube, but have only used it once, as a full bottle normally lasts us
for a round trip.
Jim Berry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420563#420563
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
On 3/18/2014 4:01 PM, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> The -10 climbs so well, and cruises so well up high, that I would suggest you
consider permanent mount O2. I have a MH 4-place demand setup, and love it. With
2 tanks and transfill setup in my hangar, I top off the MH tank before most
long xcountries.
When you fly in Colorado, you're takeoff is about where my cruising
altitude is .... in FL. So, in your case it makes sense to keep toting
the O2 bottle around. The only time I'll ever use O2 is on a long cross
country .... not to get a hamburger so a portable makes more sense for
me. It's all in the mission thingy.
> I live in CO and fly long trips over the mountains. Typical flight is between
12-16,000, LOP, WOT from takeoff to landing. Last week we did Denver to Loreto
MX with one fuel stop at Sierra Vista. Maxed out the pee bottles.
>
> I know some people like to fly low to check out the scenery, but in my neck of
the woods that frequently puts you out of radio/radar contact. I also like the
extra altitude if the whirly thing up front quits.
>
> Can you do without aileron trim? Sure, but in the -10, why? The install and expense
is infinitesimal in the overall scheme of things. If you are planning long
trips, fly in trim and wring out every knot the plane is capable of.
I agree .... it's so easy and inexpensive to put aileron and rudder trim
in while you're building. After you're flying you'll really hate to
take the plane off-line to do any mods. I'll be putting in both aileron
trim and rudder trim using a model airplane servo to drive hinge tabs.
They require pulse-width signals which are generated by a Parallax BS2
controller
(http://www.parallax.com/catalog/microcontrollers/basic-stamp). It also
controls a servo to pan my camera and pulses my elevator trim. All
controlled from my infinity grip.
Linn
>
> Jim Berry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420558#420558
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
At 01:24 PM 3/18/2014 Tuesday, you wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: "c1jensen"
>
>Hi folks,
>
>Just wanted to put a post out there to be sure the news is on Matronics that the
Vertical Power product line was purchased by Astronics Ballard Technology in
Everett, WA, and I am the new customer support rep, based in Oshkosh, WI. Marc
Ausman is working with me during the transition to get me up to speed on support
issues and if you need anything, please don't hesitate to contact me at
425-328-1658 or 920-216-3699. Email is support(at)verticalpower.com
>
>--------
>Chad Jensen
>Vertical Power Support
>RV-7, built, flown, sold
Great to see you on the List, Chad. I have a VP-200 in my RV-8 and another one
in my RV-6. Absolutely love them. I can't imagine flying without the electrical
automation features of the VP-200 specifically. Will Astronics be working
on a new version of the VP-200 with those automation features? Marc had said
that they were going to add them to the VP-300/400 models, but I understand
that Astronics won't be carrying those models.
For me, the real utility and strength in the Vertical Power products is/was the
automation. If I were in the market for a new experimental electrical system,
I'm not sure I'd be all that interesting in the VP-x, but I'd buy another VP-200
in a heartbeat.
Please keep us up to date on Astronics' current and future product updates.
Big Fan of Vertical Power Products,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
On 3/17/2014 7:56 PM, Steven DeFord wrote:
> I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these
> decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but
> I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
>
> 1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd
> like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the
> bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through
> the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as
> to be reasonably accessible?
I fabricated a fiberglass center console that fully encloses an Aerox
tank and fittings. The tank can be removed in 2 minutes or the whole
console, with or without the tank, even faster. The best part is the
console supplies a mounting point for a RAM iPad mount. See it all here:
Kitlog Entry for O2 Console
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=8533>
>
> 2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60
> gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h
> reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel
> to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the
> 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid
> to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't
> designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
I plan for 5 hours including reserves with the stock setup. That's over
600NM not including a 1 hour reserve. Plan to run LOP. The tuning is
cheap (high ROI) and easy with Airflow's restrictors and anyone's engine
monitor.
>
> 3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably
> adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do
> people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It
> seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
I have aileron trim, barely use it but recommend it. Easy to put in
during the build. More of a pain post construction. I don't have
rudder trim, didn't miss it, but as my time in the rudder-centric Maule
falls by the way side, I'm beginning to like the idea of some kind of
rudder trim.
Bill "it flies really really well the way it was designed" Watson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
Bill,
Did you make it to the AFP class?
How was it?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
How useful is auto-trim?
Are there major pitch changes with flap deployment?
The reason for the questions is that I have MGL Odyssey EFIS panels and
their servos .... and they just came out with their SP-10 auto-trim module.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PReid <Rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
After flying for while I "automatically trim" when the flaps come down. I don't
even think about it, at this point.
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
>
> How useful is auto-trim?
> Are there major pitch changes with flap deployment?
>
> The reason for the questions is that I have MGL Odyssey EFIS panels and their
servos .... and they just came out with their SP-10 auto-trim module.
> Linn
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
For a long flight, auto trim is really nice. Not required, but really nice.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 7:35 PM, PReid wrote:
>
>
> After flying for while I "automatically trim" when the flaps come down. I don't
even think about it, at this point.
>
>
>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>>
>> How useful is auto-trim?
>> Are there major pitch changes with flap deployment?
>>
>> The reason for the questions is that I have MGL Odyssey EFIS panels and their
servos .... and they just came out with their SP-10 auto-trim module.
>> Linn
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
I believe Garmin's new servos wire into the existing trim motors and will
auto-trim when autopilot is on.
-----Original Message-----
From: Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 4:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: auto trim
How useful is auto-trim?
Are there major pitch changes with flap deployment?
The reason for the questions is that I have MGL Odyssey EFIS panels and
their servos .... and they just came out with their SP-10 auto-trim module.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I have the Trio Pro with autotrim, and it's a 'nice to have'. It lets the autopilot
fly the climb, level out, speed up, and it does the trimming. Same on an
approach, with slowing down and flap deployment.
Also I use it manually, when hand flying, to make fine adjustments, since the trim
speed is airspeed sensitive.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420594#420594
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Keep in mind that a tank behind the bulkhead may limit baggage at full loads due
to aft cg.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420595#420595
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
At 03:42 PM 3/18/2014 Tuesday, you wrote:
>
>How useful is auto-trim?
>Are there major pitch changes with flap deployment?
>
>The reason for the questions is that I have MGL Odyssey EFIS panels and their
servos .... and they just came out with their SP-10 auto-trim module.
>Linn
Auto-trim is *awesome*. I have it on the RV-8 with the TruTrak AP and it works
fantastic. On the RV-6 with the Dynon, I do NOT have it and miss it like crazy.
The Dynon is always crying about "Trim up", "Trim down". Waa waa waa. Get's
annoying.
Invest in the auto-trim. You won't regret it.
$.02
Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Bob Turner wrote:
> Keep in mind that a tank behind the bulkhead may limit baggage at full loads
due to aft cg.
I have the carbon fiber MH bottle. While I have never calculated its impact on
CG, I suspect it is much less than the tools, parts and survival gear I routinely
carry. But you have a valid point.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420599#420599
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Farrell <tim(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Yes, Garmin's new servos have auto-trim built in. Easy, clean install.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 5:36 PM, "Seano" wrote:
>
>
> I believe Garmin's new servos wire into the existing trim motors and will auto-trim
when autopilot is on.
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Linn Walters
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 4:42 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: auto trim
>
>
> How useful is auto-trim?
> Are there major pitch changes with flap deployment?
>
> The reason for the questions is that I have MGL Odyssey EFIS panels and
> their servos .... and they just came out with their SP-10 auto-trim module.
> Linn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
I think auto trim is great. I installed it after about a hundred hours and
found it greatly reduced workload, especially during instrument approaches.
It's one less thing to think about, especially since I never really found
the TT trim annunciator to be all that intuitive. That cascading bar-graph
thingy tricks me about half the time...
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> How useful is auto-trim?
> Are there major pitch changes with flap deployment?
>
> The reason for the questions is that I have MGL Odyssey EFIS panels and
> their servos .... and they just came out with their SP-10 auto-trim module.
> Linn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
What is best way to finish the door jambs, ie cover the screw heads and fill gaps
between cabin cover and aluminum fuselage structure? Is a layer of glass needed
or just fill with micro?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420654#420654
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
The plans call to fill the interior door jamb gaps with flox, which is stronger
than just micro. I used flox to fill 95% of the gap and then used micro to
topcoat. Micro is easier to sand and look nice.
I also countersinked the screw holes a little deeper and then cover the heads with
micro.
On the exterior joints where it mates with aluminum, I used micro to fill the gaps,
then two layers of cloth and then used micro to blend it in to look smooth.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 20, 2014, at 4:22 AM, "bob88" wrote:
>
>
> What is best way to finish the door jambs, ie cover the screw heads and fill
gaps between cabin cover and aluminum fuselage structure? Is a layer of glass
needed or just fill with micro?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420654#420654
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
I countersunk and filled the screw heads and glassed over the door jambs and the
seam between the cabin top and the fuselage. Then (where needed) filled the
area with micro and sanded.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 20, 2014, at 4:22 AM, "bob88" wrote:
>
>
> What is best way to finish the door jambs, ie cover the screw heads and fill
gaps between cabin cover and aluminum fuselage structure? Is a layer of glass
needed or just fill with micro?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420654#420654
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation? Also what
not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike weld-on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Marty
I am sure there are wiser people than me, but here's what I did.
First I trimmed the protective plastic back to leave a sufficient perimeter around
the window for gluing. I taped the plastic to keep it it neat. I left the
plastic on as long as possible for protection purposes while working around the
windows.
I used a Lord adhesive that I got from Geoff Combs at Aeroplastics to glue the
windows. I stayed away from Weld-on. My glass fit would have caused crazing if
I used Weldon given the pressure required to get things in place.
Cheers
Led
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 20, 2014, at 8:11 PM, "bob88" wrote:
>
>
> Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation? Also what
not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike weld-on.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
I usually just leave the plastic on the plex.
How well flox sticks to the plastic is entirely dependent on what resin
it's made with. Typical laminating resins won't bond all that well to
plex. If others are having success with Lord or something else, I'd be
inclined to try that. But I've seen a few "general purpose" and laminating
epoxies used that weren't meant specifically for plex. They didn't bond
well at all.
Weld-On makes a strong bond because I believe it sort of softens the plex.
You can think of it as kind of taking root in the plastic. Because of
that, any distortion or preload tends to craze the area around the
preloaded bond. Lots has been written about that.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 5:11 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation?
> Also what not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike weld-on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
On 3/20/2014 8:11 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation?
ACS has spray lat that puts a latex coating on the plexiglass .... the
thicker the coat the easier it is to peel off.
> Also what not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike weld-on.
I plan on using the rubber sealant that they use to glue car windshields
in and cover the joint with real lightweight fiberglass cloth.
There's also a product called sikaflex.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php/20041122082807627
I think flox will be too brittle and will crack loose due to the
expansion coefficient differences between the acrylic and the FG cabin top.
Linn
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Mathia" <ron(at)touchtronics.com> |
| Subject: | Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation |
I have a few questions.
What is the best method to cut/trim the Plexiglas windows?
Secondly, what is the best method to cut/trim the inner and outer fiberglass
door panel prior to gluing them together?
Finally, what is the best adhesive to use when gluing the two panels
together to form the doors?
RCM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation
On 3/20/2014 8:11 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation?
ACS has spray lat that puts a latex coating on the plexiglass .... the
thicker the coat the easier it is to peel off.
> Also what not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike
weld-on.
I plan on using the rubber sealant that they use to glue car windshields in
and cover the joint with real lightweight fiberglass cloth.
There's also a product called sikaflex.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php/20041122082807627
I think flox will be too brittle and will crack loose due to the expansion
coefficient differences between the acrylic and the FG cabin top.
Linn
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation |
| From: | Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com> |
I'm doing this very work right now.
I use an angle die grinder to cut the door panels. Use the disks that
Vans supplies in the kit. The cutting is easy, just wear a mask and
long-sleeves - the glass dust will get everywhere.
As for the door adhesive, I followed the instructions and used West
Systems epoxy thickened with micro-balloons. Just bead all of the outer
edges of door and window opening, cleco the inside window frame
together, and tape/clamp/weight the door itself into position on the
cabin top. Make sure to mask off the cabin top itself, you don't want
the door curing to the frame - I used clear packing tape.
For the windows ... I've not yet started on that aspect.
--Ron
>
> I have a few questions.
> What is the best method to cut/trim the Plexiglas windows?
> Secondly, what is the best method to cut/trim the inner and outer fiberglass
> door panel prior to gluing them together?
> Finally, what is the best adhesive to use when gluing the two panels
> together to form the doors?
> RCM
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
I followed the lead of the Lancair builders and used what they use for glass
install, Hysol:
http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId={992B7B06-E01B-
4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
While this is a nice product, I suspect you can find other options along
this line.
I mixed just a little flox with this to thicken it. After letting set for a
several days, I did add a couple of bids of glass over the joint as I've
seen several RV-10s with the "window frame" crack. This added fiberglass
extends over the mating surface on the outside. I also did not like the
Van's approach of not having glass on the outside as a structural element.
If you just use micro or flox to fill in the crack between the window edge
and cabin top, you have a high likelihood of paint cracking.
If you are not going to add the overlay of glass and just rely on the
adhesive then you might want to stick to Van's instructions.
No matter which way you go make sure you roughen up the mating surfaces with
something like 40 grit paper.
If I had to do it again I'd do the same approach.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation
On 3/20/2014 8:11 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation?
ACS has spray lat that puts a latex coating on the plexiglass .... the
thicker the coat the easier it is to peel off.
> Also what not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike
weld-on.
I plan on using the rubber sealant that they use to glue car windshields in
and cover the joint with real lightweight fiberglass cloth.
There's also a product called sikaflex.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php/20041122082807627
I think flox will be too brittle and will crack loose due to the expansion
coefficient differences between the acrylic and the FG cabin top.
Linn
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I used Weld-On 45, the thicker version of 10. The windows are very secure with
minor paint cracking on the outside around the perimeter.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420717#420717
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
The lord adhesive is very strong and easy to use. It is great for windows,
attaching the canopy top and gluing in an
Overhead if you have one. You could also use it to glue door skins together.
It will not craze the windows
Geoff Combs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob88
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation
Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation? Also
what not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike weld-on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation |
I've used the diamond wheel bit for dremel tools to cut most of the thinner
fiberglass parts. It's makes short work of the things if the glass is not
too thick. I did not know about it when I did the doors but just about
everything after that I used the dremel. I find it easier to steer than
using a die grinder plus my air compressor does not keep up with die grinder
usage either. I also used this to trim the door windows as well. I then
followed up w/belt sander to smooth the edges and clean up rounded corners
and such.
http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessories/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=545
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Mathia
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 5:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation
I have a few questions.
What is the best method to cut/trim the Plexiglas windows?
Secondly, what is the best method to cut/trim the inner and outer fiberglass
door panel prior to gluing them together?
Finally, what is the best adhesive to use when gluing the two panels
together to form the doors?
RCM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation |
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
I like the diamond Dremel too. There's a mandrel I think called EZ Lock
that lets it tip and sort of swivel somewhat. They're a little expensive
but they work really well.
On Friday, March 21, 2014, Ben Westfall wrote:
> >
>
> I've used the diamond wheel bit for dremel tools to cut
>
--
--Dave Saylor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation |
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
Ron, did you use micro balloons, or Cabosil? They're not the same thing,
and easy to get confused since they look similar. Cabosil is more
appropriate when making a structural bond.
On Friday, March 21, 2014, Ron Walker wrote:
> >
>
>
> epoxy thickened with micro-balloons.
>
--
--Dave Saylor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation |
| From: | Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the correction Dave - I need to be more precise in my
wording. You'd think that I'd know that after taking your workshop ;o)
--Ron
> Ron, did you use micro balloons, or Cabosil? They're not the same
> thing, and easy to get confused since they look similar. Cabosil is
> more appropriate when making a structural bond.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
I've seen Hysol go both ways on windows. Please keep in mind that
the Lancair window install is much different, utilizing a heavy secondary
layup to secure the plexiglass in a strong groove, not just a joggle. Like
instead of the cosmetic layup to prevent cracks, they use several layers of
heavier cloth.
I used Hysol around the joggle of my windscreen and it's been fine. But
knowing what I know now, I wouldn't do it that way again.
On Friday, March 21, 2014, Carl Froehlich
wrote:
> carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net >
>
> I followed the lead of the Lancair builders and used what they use for
> glass
> install, Hysol:
>
> http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId={992B7B06-E01B-
> 4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
> While this is a nice product, I suspect you can find other options along
> this line.
>
> I mixed just a little flox with this to thicken it. After letting set for
> a
> several days, I did add a couple of bids of glass over the joint as I've
> seen several RV-10s with the "window frame" crack. This added fiberglass
> extends over the mating surface on the outside. I also did not like the
> Van's approach of not having glass on the outside as a structural element.
> If you just use micro or flox to fill in the crack between the window edge
> and cabin top, you have a high likelihood of paint cracking.
>
> If you are not going to add the overlay of glass and just rely on the
> adhesive then you might want to stick to Van's instructions.
>
> No matter which way you go make sure you roughen up the mating surfaces
> with
> something like 40 grit paper.
>
> If I had to do it again I'd do the same approach.
>
> Carl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <javascript:;>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of
> Linn Walters
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:03 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation
>
> >
>
> On 3/20/2014 8:11 PM, bob88 wrote:
> >
> >
> > Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation?
> ACS has spray lat that puts a latex coating on the plexiglass .... the
> thicker the coat the easier it is to peel off.
>
> > Also what not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike
> weld-on.
> I plan on using the rubber sealant that they use to glue car windshields in
> and cover the joint with real lightweight fiberglass cloth.
> There's also a product called sikaflex.
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php/20041122082807627
> I think flox will be too brittle and will crack loose due to the expansion
> coefficient differences between the acrylic and the FG cabin top.
> Linn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
>
--
--Dave Saylor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
At 05:24 PM 3/20/2014 Thursday, you wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: Ralph Finch
>
>Why did I want the -200? For the same reasons Matt cited. I just
>don't see the benefit of merely replacing some circuit breakers that
>is essentially the role of the VP-X.
I think the biggest downfall of the VP-200 was that potential customers didn't
really understand just how *awesome* the automation functionality is and how it
really works. Many times at fly-ins or other events where I've had an opportunity
to show off the VP-200, fellow homebuilders are in awe of the automation
after I've take a few minutes to explain just how it works and how it significantly
reduces my workload during the various phases of flight. The fact that
the VP-200 knows, based on GPS/RPM/AHRS data exactly what mode of flight that
I'm in - Start/Taxi/Runup/Takeoff/Cruse/Landing - and switches on or off the
electrical circuits that I've pre-programmed for each mode of flight is simply
genius. Not only is the concept certainly revolutionary in the market, but
the VP-200's implementation of it just works and works great. The only external
input that is missing to the logic, IMHO, is the determination of Day vs. Night.
I have to manually turn the position lights on. It seems like either the
input from the exiting dimmer electric eye or from some sort of real time clock
could make this happen.
Ralph's idea of adding automation to the VP-x though the use of an external embedded
processor and display is a good one. Maybe when I get the RV-8 back in
the air, I'll start working on something along those lines... :-)
Best regards,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shaun Dawson <scdawson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, |
WI
Based on GPS information (position and time), you can know whether you are
in Day or night, no problem, without having to resort to external devices
such as a light sensor (which can break). I would think that sort of thing
would be quite easy.
Shaun
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
>
> At 05:24 PM 3/20/2014 Thursday, you wrote:
> >--> Avionics-List message posted by: Ralph Finch <
> ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com>
> >
> >Why did I want the -200? For the same reasons Matt cited. I just
> >don't see the benefit of merely replacing some circuit breakers that
> >is essentially the role of the VP-X.
>
>
> I think the biggest downfall of the VP-200 was that potential customers
> didn't really understand just how *awesome* the automation functionality is
> and how it really works. Many times at fly-ins or other events where I've
> had an opportunity to show off the VP-200, fellow homebuilders are in awe
> of the automation after I've take a few minutes to explain just how it
> works and how it significantly reduces my workload during the various
> phases of flight. The fact that the VP-200 knows, based on GPS/RPM/AHRS
> data exactly what mode of flight that I'm in -
> Start/Taxi/Runup/Takeoff/Cruse/Landing - and switches on or off the
> electrical circuits that I've pre-programmed for each mode of flight is
> simply genius. Not only is the concept certainly revolutionary in the
> market, but the VP-200's implementation of it just works and works great.
> The only external input that is missing to the logic, IMHO, is the
> determination of Day vs. Night. I have to manually turn the position
> lights o!
> n. It seems like either the input from the exiting dimmer electric eye
> or from some sort of real time clock could make this happen.
>
> Ralph's idea of adding automation to the VP-x though the use of an
> external embedded processor and display is a good one. Maybe when I get
> the RV-8 back in the air, I'll start working on something along those
> lines... :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
> Mode
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
| From: | "Mike Whisky" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Matt, I am with you the VP-200 is awesome I touch only engine and flight controls
trim and flaps. The rest is done by the VP-200
Great Product I still don't understand why they dropped it.
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420762#420762
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Matt,
On this tread I received 3 copies of your first message and 4 copies of the second
message, each with the same time stamp. Is this an issue on your end or mine?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420763#420763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
There was so many more ways to improve the 200 with "future software"
releases. By ending the production and moving on to "more simple" they
really took their flagship out of the company. My hope is that they bring
out a newer version with everything it is capable of, so others do not miss
out on a asset in the panel.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Whisky
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI
Matt, I am with you the VP-200 is awesome I touch only engine and flight
controls trim and flaps. The rest is done by the VP-200
Great Product I still don't understand why they dropped it.
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (flying, test phase)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420762#420762
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
"Everyone seems to dislike weld-on" is something of a misapprehension, no doubt
caused by the amount of chatter on the newsgroups. Van's didn't choose Weld-on
lightly or without the engineering to support its preferred use.
This thread was alive back in 2007 when I was building my -10, and I was persuaded,
particularly by builders outside of the US who could not get Weld-on and
referred to the practices of fast glass builders in using a structural adhesive
that would accommodate differential thermal effects of the plexi and the composite
canopy. So I went with one of those products (no longer offered but essentially
like ES6279 Aeropoxy).
Fast forward about 450 flight hours, and I am at 15,000 feet over Atlanta's Class B airspace, without outside air temperature -15C and inside the cabin toasty warm at 75 degrees, with the heaters going wide open. Happy as proverbial clam when BAM! a loud noise and I look back to see that the rear window has come unglued and departed the aircraft: http://faculty.washington.edu/dmasys/RV10/RV10_lostwind_rearview.jpg
Suffice it to say I glued in the replacement using Van's procedure and Weld-on,
which is terrific stuff, not as much a problem as the list would portray, and
known to be reliable. So from my perspective you put yourself at unnecessary
risk of an unhappy event if you get creative in deviating from the factory guidance
on this issue.
Sadder but wiser...
-Dan Masys
N104LD 670 hrs
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 5:11 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
>>
>> Is there a best practice for plexiglas protection during installation?
>> Also what not use flox to glue them in? Everyone seems to dislike weld-on.
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420700#420700
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Mathia" <ron(at)touchtronics.com> |
| Subject: | Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation |
Thanks, Ron, for the suggestions, as soon as it warms up enough to work in the
hanger I will start on the doors.
Regards, RCM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Walker
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Best way to protect Plexiglas during installation
I'm doing this very work right now.
I use an angle die grinder to cut the door panels. Use the disks that Vans supplies
in the kit. The cutting is easy, just wear a mask and long-sleeves - the
glass dust will get everywhere.
As for the door adhesive, I followed the instructions and used West Systems epoxy
thickened with micro-balloons. Just bead all of the outer edges of door and
window opening, cleco the inside window frame together, and tape/clamp/weight
the door itself into position on the cabin top. Make sure to mask off the cabin
top itself, you don't want the door curing to the frame - I used clear packing
tape.
For the windows ... I've not yet started on that aspect.
--Ron
>
> I have a few questions.
> What is the best method to cut/trim the Plexiglas windows?
> Secondly, what is the best method to cut/trim the inner and outer
> fiberglass door panel prior to gluing them together?
> Finally, what is the best adhesive to use when gluing the two panels
> together to form the doors?
> RCM
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS: 6 Cyl Slick Mag |
| From: | "Barry" <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
The Mag has been sold. Thanks Barry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420776#420776
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best way to protect plexiglas during installation |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I think Weld-On 10 is too thin, making it messy to work with and it does not fill
gaps properly. I called the mfr and they recommeded Weld-On 45. A special cartridge
gun dispenser and mixing nozzles are needed which is probably why Van's
recommends Weld-On 10. A friend up in PA used it and I will pick it up in the
next few weeks if someone needs it. I have been to 16.5 at -2C with heat and
vents open just to see if I could blow one out.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420778#420778
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV10s near Daytona |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Wondering if there are any build projects in process within a reasonable radius
of Daytona? Particularly Ormomd or Flagler area is where I'll be staying next
week & probably a trip over to S & F will be in order.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420791#420791
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV10s near Daytona |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
N256H was at Spruce Creek today, but based near Ocala. A build project will be
at X35 for finish up starting Monday. Feel free to stop by.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 6:52 PM, "rvdave" wrote:
>
>
> Wondering if there are any build projects in process within a reasonable radius
of Daytona? Particularly Ormomd or Flagler area is where I'll be staying next
week & probably a trip over to S & F will be in order.
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 flying
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420791#420791
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV10s near Daytona |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Ok , I will be down end of next week thru first week of April, sounds good--my
son and I may look you up, thanks for the info.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420809#420809
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV10s near Daytona |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
I'll be here next week, but I'll be in sun-n-fun the whole following week. Please
call ahead a day.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, "rvdave" wrote:
>
>
> Ok , I will be down end of next week thru first week of April, sounds good--my
son and I may look you up, thanks for the info.
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 flying
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420809#420809
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
I agree with Matt that people generally were not aware of everything the VP-200
gives you. I like the auto mode switching function, but equally, if not more
important to me, is the ability to easily get detailed information on virtually
every electrical component in your airplane. If a light bulb quits working,
you will know immediately that it is not working, which one it is, and have a
pretty good idea of the nature of the fault. Pretty nice to have that info about
every electrical component on the airplane. The ability to automatically load
shed in the event of an alternator failure is pretty nice, as well. Change
from incandescent bulbs to HID or LED? A few key strokes sets your electronic
circuit breakers to the new values. Add some of the improvements that came along
before the demise of the VP-200, such as trim speed control and runaway trim
protection, the Climate Control Module for those of us with air conditioning,
Gretz heated pitot system annunciation, electronic check lists, cabin altitude
warning, etc., etc., etc., and I can say that I would not be happy to lose
my VP-200.
Certainly this type of system is not for everybody, and fortunately we all get
to make our own decisions about these kinds of things. I just don't think VP was
ever able to communicate all of the value of this system. I had been flying
advanced cockpit jets for several years when the VP-200 first came out, and I
knew right away that I wanted those capabilities in my RV-10.
I do remember having a conversation with Stein a few years ago about why the VP-200
wasn't doing as well as I felt like it should. He commented that people with
experience in advanced cockpit airplanes seemed to appreciate the value more
easily than others. Whatever the reason the system did not succeed in the market
place, the fact is, it didn't. Maybe there will be another attempt at it
as time goes on.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420862#420862
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
Hopefully not starting an argument - I looked at this system when I built
the RV-10. Looking beyond the price tag, I wanted to see how it would
incorporate two fully independent power sources (as in two masters - one on
each battery, and each battery feeding exactly half the panel but cross
connected if needed). It seemed that I would need to install two Vertical
Power units to achieve a system that did not have the typical power
continuity single fault vulnerability that is common with most spam
aircraft.
I went with a less expensive approach.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmaib(at)me.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI
I agree with Matt that people generally were not aware of everything the
VP-200 gives you. I like the auto mode switching function, but equally, if
not more important to me, is the ability to easily get detailed information
on virtually every electrical component in your airplane. If a light bulb
quits working, you will know immediately that it is not working, which one
it is, and have a pretty good idea of the nature of the fault. Pretty nice
to have that info about every electrical component on the airplane. The
ability to automatically load shed in the event of an alternator failure is
pretty nice, as well. Change from incandescent bulbs to HID or LED? A few
key strokes sets your electronic circuit breakers to the new values. Add
some of the improvements that came along before the demise of the VP-200,
such as trim speed control and runaway trim protection, the Climate Control
Module for those of us with air conditioning, Gretz heated pitot system
annunciation, electronic!
check lists, cabin altitude warning, etc., etc., etc., and I can say that
I would not be happy to lose my VP-200.
Certainly this type of system is not for everybody, and fortunately we all
get to make our own decisions about these kinds of things. I just don't
think VP was ever able to communicate all of the value of this system. I had
been flying advanced cockpit jets for several years when the VP-200 first
came out, and I knew right away that I wanted those capabilities in my
RV-10.
I do remember having a conversation with Stein a few years ago about why the
VP-200 wasn't doing as well as I felt like it should. He commented that
people with experience in advanced cockpit airplanes seemed to appreciate
the value more easily than others. Whatever the reason the system did not
succeed in the market place, the fact is, it didn't. Maybe there will be
another attempt at it as time goes on.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420862#420862
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
| From: | "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> |
No arguments from me, Carl. Like I said, we all get to make our own decisions on
these airplanes. What a great deal that is!
You are correct that you would want two VP-200 control units to have a dual buss
system. I have two control units, but did not go with a dual buss or split system.
So, even though I put some thought into what components should be wired
to each control unit, I do not have a true split system. However, I got it the
way I wanted it! It was a bit more expensive to go the two CU route, but I knew
that up front. If I had been trying to build the lowest cost RV-10 I would
have done several things differently, that's for sure!
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420874#420874
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Finishing up baffling and looking to route Lightspeed crank sensor cable and lower
spark plug wire through baffling. First is whether to go above or below
engine with crank sensor and where to penetrate firewall? I have dual so wondering
about running them together.
Next how to get lower plug wire to bottom plug from coil on top of engine--maybe
silicone grommet thru baffling?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420918#420918
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
Mount the coils for the bottom plugs behind the engine baffle on the engine
mount via adle clamps, not on top of the engine. Mount the top plug coils
on top of the engine. This simplifies the coil to plug wiring.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 9:50 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing
Finishing up baffling and looking to route Lightspeed crank sensor cable and
lower spark plug wire through baffling. First is whether to go above or
below engine with crank sensor and where to penetrate firewall? I have dual
so wondering about running them together.
Next how to get lower plug wire to bottom plug from coil on top of
engine--maybe silicone grommet thru baffling?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420918#420918
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
That may be the best way--will have to get longer HV leads if I do that though.
How about the crank sensor leads--cross over under the engine then run parallel
to firewall?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420939#420939
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
Photos attached. I have dual LSE. RG400 coming out of top portion of firewall are
high tension coil wires. The bottom coils are attached to the engine mount.
The top coils are attached to the engine case. Crank sensor wires route across
the co-pilot side beneath the oil returns. I used both adel clamps and RTV where
required. The most important thing is to run the RG400 coil wires separate
from the sensor wires.
Cheers,
Jay
433RV - flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420944#420944
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hpim0798_835.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hpim0789_178.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hpim0781_158.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hpim0779_203.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mds4878" <mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com> |
Hello my post today is to consider whether or not to take on a partner in the RV10
I've been building.
I live in Mound MN and own a hangar in Winsted MN where the aircraft would end
up when finished.
Pros and cons to a partner would be interesting to here, thanks.
If interested call Mike 612-590-8604 or (mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com)
--------
RV-10 #40447
Fuselage almost done.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420952#420952
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PARTNER MAYBE |
I'm building solo .... well, kinda ..... I have another RV-10 builder
that I can ask when I need help.
If you get a partner that is savvy .... or learns quickly ..... that is
a real help. My son-in law (now ex) was eager to work but his attention
to detail left a lot to be desired. I had to go over all his work and
fix it ..... more trouble than it's worth.
The other observation is that if you do get a partner, write down all
the details .... who does the work, contributes money etc ..... and get
it notarized. If the partner is just a warm body with a pair of hands
but contributes money to the project .... define how much your work is
worth against the moneys the partner contributes, and how much time you
expect him/her to contribute and put penalties in there if he doesn't
put in the hours agreed on. What makes it difficult is to assess the
'value' of the work you've performed, and the value of the partner
contribution ..... and how much of a share the partner will have when
the airplane is finished.
AOPA has a draft agreement for a flying aircraft partnership that may be
somewhat applicable .... or at least food for thought.
*http://tinyurl.com/ktwh4mw*
Linn
On 3/24/2014 7:15 PM, mds4878 wrote:
>
> Hello my post today is to consider whether or not to take on a partner in the
RV10 I've been building.
> I live in Mound MN and own a hangar in Winsted MN where the aircraft would end
up when finished.
> Pros and cons to a partner would be interesting to here, thanks.
> If interested call Mike 612-590-8604 or (mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com)
>
> --------
> RV-10 #40447
> Fuselage almost done.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420952#420952
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Looks good, one other thing--how about exiting the flywheel, how specifically do
you route and mount the sensor wires to get the clearance from rotating flywheel?
Do you mount an adel clamp to the sensor circuit board also?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420956#420956
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
The area where the sensor wires exit behind the flywheel has always bothered
me. I think I laced them together and clamped them as close to the bottom
seam of the case as possible and then back under the cyls. in a bundle with
some other engine sensor wiring. No problems at 550 hours.
An unrelated observation is that the advance at cruise power is always
within a degree or two of 25 same as the mag. That is unless I get to power
settings below about 60% such as above 10,000 or lower than normal manifold
pressures. I would really like to have two PMAGS if they would ever finish
work on them.
Dick
RV-10, RV-4, RV-12
-----Original Message-----
From: rvdave
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing
Looks good, one other thing--how about exiting the flywheel, how
specifically do you route and mount the sensor wires to get the clearance
from rotating flywheel? Do you mount an adel clamp to the sensor circuit
board also?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420956#420956
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PARTNER MAYBE |
I've had a partner in my -10 since before it was flying. I sold him half
just in time to pay for the engine and panel. He didn't participate in the
build much, if at all.
He's an experienced pilot and someone I had known for a few years. He has
another plane, too.
For me, it's been a great experience. Some of the good points:
+ Everything except fuel is half price: parts, insurance, hangar, GPS
subscriptions, repairs, etc. I guess we pay our own CFIs from time to time
too, but virtually everything is half.
+ I have someone to fly with (IFR currency) who knows the plane and
avionics at least as well as I do.
+ We used the AOPA agreement as a template, and massaged a few things here
and there.
+We use Google calendar to schedule. If it's on the schedule, it's pretty
much set in stone. Of course there are times when we discuss
who/when/where but the conflicts are few and far between. If we come to
loggerheads, which I don't really recall happening in seven years, we've
agreed to the final say being appointed to each of us in alternating
months--he gets the evens, I get the odds...or vice versa...I forget.
+ I do virtually all the maintenance, and he pays me half of what we agree
is a reasonable rate. If he helps out, our time cancels.
+ We've agreed to pay a weighted share of the engine overhaul. We log
every flight, so when the time comes, we'll do some bookkeeping and see how
even things are. He used to fly about two hours to my one, but at some
point I passed him in RV-10 time.
Of course you have to get along. If you can work out the little things,
it's a good deal. The plane flys more, which is usually good, and I do
too, since my gas budget gets a big boost!
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 4:15 PM, mds4878 wrote:
>
>
Pros and cons to a partner would be interesting to here, thanks.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
Just tie them together and route under along the case using clamps and/or RTV.
It's very secure. The part that me pucker was drilling holes in the case behind
the flywheel to mount the LSE sensor. YMMV with newer LSE sensors.
Regards,
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420995#420995
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/eng_hpim0282_197.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PARTNER MAYBE |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Partnerships are a great way to cut fixed costs (hangar, insurance, taxes, cost
of capital). For most of us these are larger than the cost of gas, overhaul/maintenance
set-asides, etc. I was in a 3 way partnership in a 182 for 25 years.
My comments:
Ask yourself honestly if your personality is up for it. No one else will fly the
plane exactly the way you do. Can your stomach handle watching someone else
treat your airplane not quite as well as you do? If "yes", read on.
Can you handle, every so often, not having the plane available when you wanted
it? If so read on.
Put everything you can think of in writing, all partners sign. How will you divide
insurance costs, if one partner has a lot less experience than the others
and drives up the cost? How will you handle overhaul and maintenance set-asides?
Will you keep the plane ifr current (pitot static, GPS databases)? How will
you pay? What is your policy on re-fueling after every flight? How will you enforce
this? Will you pay the person holding the repair certificate for condition
inspections? What will you do if a partner wants out? (This happened). What
will you do if a partner dies? (This happened).
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421034#421034
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
Dick,
"An unrelated observation is that the advance at cruise power is always
within a degree or two of 25 same as the mag."
What are the advantages/disadvantages compared to my stock Slicks? With your hours
it would be almost time to ovhl mags if you had them. Any problems so far
with LS? Thank you or anyone else for feedback.
Wayne 128 hrs.
10.5 gph 155-160 kt cruise
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421122#421122
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | James Cowl and cooling |
I know there has been discussion about this in the past, but I am wondering what
conclusions were made. I am working on an RV-10 that has the James cowl and
plenum and the 5" inlet rings. What was the final verdict on these? I know we
haven't heard from Deems in a while. Anybody else have some info on this?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | James Cowl and cooling |
150 hours on a James Cowl and plenum. I am happy with the decision and
would do it again. I will be putting a James Cowl on the next project as
well (RV-8).
There is no magic here, you reduce drag by better management of engine
cooling (as in you have less lbm of cooling air coming). For the RV-10
built for cruise, this makes sense. If you are building an RV-10 for
stunning climb at low airspeed, the James Cowl in not the way to go. On a
hot day and heavy, I do extended climbs above 125 kts. This still provides
1000fpm+ but is much lower than what I could get if the nose is pointed more
skyward. This tradeoff provides 170kt cruise at LOP, 2350 RPM and MP
dependent on altitude. CHTs are all below 350 in cruise on a hot day. Note
this data is after cylinder injector balancing. I'm using a stock IO-540
from Vans (not a fire breather) and made a few under the cowl modes to fix
inherent RV-10 engine cooling issues (e.g. oil cooler mounting and cabin
heat exit path when cabin heat is off).
There is more work involved than the stock Van's cowl. If you are looking
for simple, stay with the stock cowl.
As a side note, the RV-10 James Cowl is no longer available. Will James got
too much noise from the RV community as a few of the early adopters had
issues.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 10:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: James Cowl and cooling
I know there has been discussion about this in the past, but I am wondering
what conclusions were made. I am working on an RV-10 that has the James cowl
and plenum and the 5" inlet rings. What was the final verdict on these? I
know we haven't heard from Deems in a while. Anybody else have some info on
this?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
I'm at the beginning of learning curve re lightspeed but according to what I read
in the manual, with mp connected timing should be around 40* and with mp disconnected
should be about 25*. Is this true for cruise configuration or will
it continually be changing with altitude, rpm, throttle, etc?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421148#421148
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: James Cowl and cooling |
Not a direct James issue, but discussions I've had pointed out that the
forward side of #2 cylinder and aft side of #5 cylinder (Lycoming) don't
get much airflow because the height of the fins in this area are very
short .... not much air gets by. Other comments on my lists have people
putting washers between the cylinder and the baffle to get more air
flow. I'm interested as well because I'm looking at the James plenum
and round inlets on a Vans cowl.
Linn ...... painting the interior
On 3/27/2014 10:46 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> I know there has been discussion about this in the past, but I am wondering what
conclusions were made. I am working on an RV-10 that has the James cowl and
plenum and the 5" inlet rings. What was the final verdict on these? I know we
haven't heard from Deems in a while. Anybody else have some info on this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | James Cowl and cooling |
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
Update
I have had 3 issues with the James Cowl:
1. I had to modify the cowl to accept a Ram Air Fuel Servo Intake (Will
fixed this on later cowls IIRC)
2. I couldn't run LOP without adding pressurized Injector nozzles (not
cheap)
3. High OIL and engine temps (I live in AZ so for 5 months of the year I
Really had to watch the temps on Climb)
Last year I made a modification that REALLY made a difference for me.
I fabricated a fiberglass Ram Air intake and mounted it on the bottom of
the cowl, replacing the nose gear leg slot cover that fits in front of the
nose gear. (I have 3bld and so this is extended) It. I used the same
nutplates to attach it so there was no modification to the cowl itself. It
connects to a 3.5" scat tube. I blocked off the oil cooler air intake on
the baffling behind the #6 cyl, and fabricated from fiberglass an ~ 120
degree reducer elbow that connects the scat tube to the top of the oil
cooler. The result have been super. My #6 cyl was always my hottest and now
its in the middle of the pack (20-30 deg spread). Oil Temps had to be
carefully managed in Summer to keep below 220, Now, they rarely exceed 200
in the summer on normal 100-120kt climb and run between 180-190 depending
on OAT. CHT across the board dropped 30-40 degrees. I can run LOP down to
10 gph without balanced injectors.
What I think I learned....
1. The placement of the oil cooler air intake on the rear of the baffles w/
the James cowl is too low, and it steals cooling air for the #6 (Someone
either Robin Marks or Ed Hayden tried modifying the SJ plenum in this area
and it didn't make much of a difference in Oil Temps).
2. The inlet rings on the SJ cowl are Too Small and don't allow enough air
to both cool the engine and cool the oil. (If you think about it they are
the same size as for the 4 cyl. Alan (?) demonstrated this when he modified
his cowl and plenum and fabricated bigger intake rings.
3. I think that if I had made the above ram air intake and installed it
before I began experimenting w/ LOP that I may have avoided the need for
the turbo nozzle rails. (I'm not taking them off to find out)
I LOVE the appearance of the SJ cowl
I think I posted some pics of this mod last year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Obviously timing has to be inversely proportional to manifold pressure. The
higher the MP the closer timing must be to the nominal 25 degrees.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:40 AM, rvdave wrote:
>
> I'm at the beginning of learning curve re lightspeed but according to what
> I read in the manual, with mp connected timing should be around 40* and
> with mp disconnected should be about 25*. Is this true for cruise
> configuration or will it continually be changing with altitude, rpm,
> throttle, etc?
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 flying
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421148#421148
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: James Cowl and cooling |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
The issue with lack of cooling fins on the intake port side of Lycoming
cylinder heads was probably best documented by the Cardinal Flyers Online
group. IIRC they worked with George Braley of GAMI to solve the issue. It
involved making a space of at least 1/8" between the baffle and the
cylinder head fins (which actually don't allow any air through. Doing that
produced approx. 30 degree CHT drop on Cardinal 4 cyl O or IO-360s.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Not a direct James issue, but discussions I've had pointed out that the
> forward side of #2 cylinder and aft side of #5 cylinder (Lycoming) don't
> get much airflow because the height of the fins in this area are very short
> .... not much air gets by. Other comments on my lists have people putting
> washers between the cylinder and the baffle to get more air flow. I'm
> interested as well because I'm looking at the James plenum and round inlets
> on a Vans cowl.
> Linn ...... painting the interior
>
>
> On 3/27/2014 10:46 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
>>
>> I know there has been discussion about this in the past, but I am
>> wondering what conclusions were made. I am working on an RV-10 that has the
>> James cowl and plenum and the 5" inlet rings. What was the final verdict on
>> these? I know we haven't heard from Deems in a while. Anybody else have
>> some info on this?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
I believe the advantage is somewhat improved economy at lower power
settings, perhaps easier starts, (I start on the LS which fires at TDC
during start).
I've had no issues with the LS. I'll have to check the manual again, I
think the 40 degrees with the manifold pressure disconnected must only be
set point, I never see anywhere near that in operation.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: rv10flyer
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:11 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing
Dick,
"An unrelated observation is that the advance at cruise power is always
within a degree or two of 25 same as the mag."
What are the advantages/disadvantages compared to my stock Slicks? With your
hours it would be almost time to ovhl mags if you had them. Any problems so
far with LS? Thank you or anyone else for feedback.
Wayne 128 hrs.
10.5 gph 155-160 kt cruise
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421122#421122
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
How much advance you see will depend on your power setting. If you reduce
power to say 50 percent while in descent, you might see 40 degrees.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Dick & Vicki Sipp wrote:
>
> I believe the advantage is somewhat improved economy at lower power
> settings, perhaps easier starts, (I start on the LS which fires at TDC
> during start).
> I've had no issues with the LS. I'll have to check the manual again, I
> think the 40 degrees with the manifold pressure disconnected must only be
> set point, I never see anywhere near that in operation.
>
> Dick
>
> -----Original Message----- From: rv10flyer
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:11 AM
>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing
>
>
> Dick,
>
>
> "An unrelated observation is that the advance at cruise power is always
> within a degree or two of 25 same as the mag."
>
> What are the advantages/disadvantages compared to my stock Slicks? With
> your hours it would be almost time to ovhl mags if you had them. Any
> problems so far with LS? Thank you or anyone else for feedback.
>
> Wayne 128 hrs.
> 10.5 gph 155-160 kt cruise
>
> --------
> Wayne G.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421122#421122
>
>
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
Thanks Kelly, I am going to pay more attention to the advance settings
which I can read in the cockpit; you have peaked my interest. My
experience in cruise does not indicate significant advance increases.
That=99s probably a good thing.
Dick
From: Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing
How much advance you see will depend on your power setting. If you
reduce power to say 50 percent while in descent, you might see 40
degrees.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Dick & Vicki Sipp
wrote:
I believe the advantage is somewhat improved economy at lower power
settings, perhaps easier starts, (I start on the LS which fires at TDC
during start).
I've had no issues with the LS. I'll have to check the manual again,
I think the 40 degrees with the manifold pressure disconnected must only
be set point, I never see anywhere near that in operation.
Dick
-----Original Message----- From: rv10flyer
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:11 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing
Dick,
"An unrelated observation is that the advance at cruise power is
always
within a degree or two of 25 same as the mag."
What are the advantages/disadvantages compared to my stock Slicks?
With your hours it would be almost time to ovhl mags if you had them.
Any problems so far with LS? Thank you or anyone else for feedback.
Wayne 128 hrs.
10.5 gph 155-160 kt cruise
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421122#421122
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Dick how are you reading the timing advance, do you have the Lightspeed display?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421193#421193
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
| From: | "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> |
Dick how are you reading the timing advance, do you have the Lightspeed display?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421194#421194
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine compartment |
Can anyone point me to any installation pictures of FloScan
installations where the unit is mounted between the fuel controller and
the spider? Any links or pics appreciated.
Background:
I've decided to change the location of my fuel flow unit from the tunnel
to between the fuel controller and the spider. I've seen a few pictures
of other installations but I know I've seen some I can't find at the moment.
I've gotten quite comfortable with the tunnel installation. There's no
doubt that it's a bit inaccurate with the boost pump on but that's not
really a problem.
However, the folks at Airflow pointed out 2 other issues that I'm in
fact experiencing:
1) Fuel flow readings fluctuate a bit, as recorded by my GRT system.
It's only plus/minus .2GPH but it limits the accuracy of my nozzle
tuning efforts. I'm tuned up pretty good right now but I'd like to
improve it a bit more.
2) During full power climbs my fuel pressure drops a bit below where it
should and that causes me to turn on my boost pump for short periods of
time midway up during my climb outs. I can't recite the exact reasons
for that as described by Don Rivera at Airflow, but it's related to the
restriction of flow sensor and it's location between the tank and the
engine driven fuel pump. As I understand it, it's best to have as few
restrictions as possible upstream of the fuel pump. And having
inadequate fuel pressure during full power operations is undesirable.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing |
Yes, the Lightspeed display module.
-----Original Message-----
From: rvdave
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 7:50 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Lightspeed crank and ignition wire routing
Dick how are you reading the timing advance, do you have the Lightspeed
display?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421193#421193
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
compartment
Doesn't answer your exact question but I mounted my floscan to the lower
engine mount crossbar. I used Adel clamps to attach a 2X2" aluminum
angle that the floscan mounts on so it's between the mechanical pump and
the fuel servo. The reason I did it that way is I've installed an iSTART
system that injects fuel into the air intake past the fuel servo. See
it in use here: http://istartair.com/. If I placed the floscan between
the servo and spider the fuel usage wouldn't be as accurate as I want.
You reminded me to take pictures which I'll do after Sun -n-Fun.
Linn
On 3/28/2014 9:42 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Can anyone point me to any installation pictures of FloScan
> installations where the unit is mounted between the fuel controller
> and the spider? Any links or pics appreciated.
>
> Background:
> I've decided to change the location of my fuel flow unit from the
> tunnel to between the fuel controller and the spider. I've seen a few
> pictures of other installations but I know I've seen some I can't find
> at the moment.
>
> I've gotten quite comfortable with the tunnel installation. There's no
> doubt that it's a bit inaccurate with the boost pump on but that's not
> really a problem.
>
> However, the folks at Airflow pointed out 2 other issues that I'm in
> fact experiencing:
> 1) Fuel flow readings fluctuate a bit, as recorded by my GRT system.
> It's only plus/minus .2GPH but it limits the accuracy of my nozzle
> tuning efforts. I'm tuned up pretty good right now but I'd like to
> improve it a bit more.
> 2) During full power climbs my fuel pressure drops a bit below where
> it should and that causes me to turn on my boost pump for short
> periods of time midway up during my climb outs. I can't recite the
> exact reasons for that as described by Don Rivera at Airflow, but
> it's related to the restriction of flow sensor and it's location
> between the tank and the engine driven fuel pump. As I understand it,
> it's best to have as few restrictions as possible upstream of the fuel
> pump. And having inadequate fuel pressure during full power
> operations is undesirable.
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
compartment
Bill, here's a slew of various installs of the red cube fwf...
http://www.matronics.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93819
-Sean #40303 (Just weighed the bird)
> Bill Watson
> March 28, 2014 at 8:42 PM
>
> Can anyone point me to any installation pictures of FloScan
> installations where the unit is mounted between the fuel controller
> and the spider? Any links or pics appreciated.
>
> Background:
> I've decided to change the location of my fuel flow unit from the
> tunnel to between the fuel controller and the spider. I've seen a few
> pictures of other installations but I know I've seen some I can't find
> at the moment.
>
> I've gotten quite comfortable with the tunnel installation. There's
> no doubt that it's a bit inaccurate with the boost pump on but that's
> not really a problem.
>
> However, the folks at Airflow pointed out 2 other issues that I'm in
> fact experiencing:
> 1) Fuel flow readings fluctuate a bit, as recorded by my GRT system.
> It's only plus/minus .2GPH but it limits the accuracy of my nozzle
> tuning efforts. I'm tuned up pretty good right now but I'd like to
> improve it a bit more.
> 2) During full power climbs my fuel pressure drops a bit below where
> it should and that causes me to turn on my boost pump for short
> periods of time midway up during my climb outs. I can't recite the
> exact reasons for that as described by Don Rivera at Airflow, but
> it's related to the restriction of flow sensor and it's location
> between the tank and the engine driven fuel pump. As I understand it,
> it's best to have as few restrictions as possible upstream of the fuel
> pump. And having inadequate fuel pressure during full power
> operations is undesirable.
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
compartment
Bill,
Mark Cooper's blog has some pics and a description of his mounting in the
similar location.
http://myrv10factory.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/red-cube-relocation-garmin-gtn
-750-tx-fixed-par100ex-music-limitations-and-afs-screen-tweaks/
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 6:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine
compartment
Can anyone point me to any installation pictures of FloScan installations
where the unit is mounted between the fuel controller and the spider? Any
links or pics appreciated.
Background:
I've decided to change the location of my fuel flow unit from the tunnel to
between the fuel controller and the spider. I've seen a few pictures of
other installations but I know I've seen some I can't find at the moment.
I've gotten quite comfortable with the tunnel installation. There's no
doubt that it's a bit inaccurate with the boost pump on but that's not
really a problem.
However, the folks at Airflow pointed out 2 other issues that I'm in fact
experiencing:
1) Fuel flow readings fluctuate a bit, as recorded by my GRT system.
It's only plus/minus .2GPH but it limits the accuracy of my nozzle tuning
efforts. I'm tuned up pretty good right now but I'd like to improve it a
bit more.
2) During full power climbs my fuel pressure drops a bit below where it
should and that causes me to turn on my boost pump for short periods of time
midway up during my climb outs. I can't recite the exact reasons for that
as described by Don Rivera at Airflow, but it's related to the restriction
of flow sensor and it's location between the tank and the engine driven fuel
pump. As I understand it, it's best to have as few restrictions as possible
upstream of the fuel pump. And having inadequate fuel pressure during full
power operations is undesirable.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
compartment
How's the iStart unit working for you?
This has been my first fuel injected engine. Thankfully I've been able
to stick to a single set of procedures for cold and hot starts:
- Cold: Crack throttle 1/4" or so, turn on boost pump until (tunnel
mounted Flowscan) fuel flow meter shows a constant value, then open
mixture for 5 seconds or until flow meter shows constant value. Then
close mixture. Crank until firing, then open mixture to any running
value desired.
- Hot: Crack throttle 1/4" or so, turn on boost pump until (tunnel
mounted Flowscan) fuel flow meter shows a constant value, (delete),
Crank until firing, then open mixture to any running value desired.
The Hot Start procedure works on hot Carolina days, even trying to
re-start seconds after shutdown. If the mixture is accidentally opened
before cranking, the engine floods and difficulties are encountered.
I hope the procedures continue to work after I relocate the Flowscan unit.
On 3/28/2014 10:21 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Doesn't answer your exact question but I mounted my floscan to the
> lower engine mount crossbar. I used Adel clamps to attach a 2X2"
> aluminum angle that the floscan mounts on so it's between the
> mechanical pump and the fuel servo. The reason I did it that way is
> I've installed an iSTART system that injects fuel into the air intake
> past the fuel servo. See it in use here: http://istartair.com/. If I
> placed the floscan between the servo and spider the fuel usage
> wouldn't be as accurate as I want. You reminded me to take pictures
> which I'll do after Sun -n-Fun.
> Linn
>
> On 3/28/2014 9:42 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>
>> Can anyone point me to any installation pictures of FloScan
>> installations where the unit is mounted between the fuel controller
>> and the spider? Any links or pics appreciated.
>>
>> Background:
>> I've decided to change the location of my fuel flow unit from the
>> tunnel to between the fuel controller and the spider. I've seen a
>> few pictures of other installations but I know I've seen some I can't
>> find at the moment.
>>
>> I've gotten quite comfortable with the tunnel installation. There's
>> no doubt that it's a bit inaccurate with the boost pump on but that's
>> not really a problem.
>>
>> However, the folks at Airflow pointed out 2 other issues that I'm in
>> fact experiencing:
>> 1) Fuel flow readings fluctuate a bit, as recorded by my GRT system.
>> It's only plus/minus .2GPH but it limits the accuracy of my nozzle
>> tuning efforts. I'm tuned up pretty good right now but I'd like to
>> improve it a bit more.
>> 2) During full power climbs my fuel pressure drops a bit below where
>> it should and that causes me to turn on my boost pump for short
>> periods of time midway up during my climb outs. I can't recite the
>> exact reasons for that as described by Don Rivera at Airflow, but
>> it's related to the restriction of flow sensor and it's location
>> between the tank and the engine driven fuel pump. As I understand it,
>> it's best to have as few restrictions as possible upstream of the
>> fuel pump. And having inadequate fuel pressure during full power
>> operations is undesirable.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Window adhesives |
| From: | "bob88" <marty.crooks(at)comcast.net> |
I have been researching alternatives to Weldon which seems to have gotten a bad
rap from many. The alternatives I have seen on various posts include Sika flex
295UV (most popular?), Hysol EA9360, 3M 2216. One I have not seen is the product
used by Cirrus and apparently made specifically for windshield and canopies:
PPG PR-1829. Anyone have experience with the latter?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421301#421301
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window adhesives |
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Bob 88
I just glued in my door windows this past week, and used Lord Adhesive
7545, parts A & E. It was very easy to use, no running and squeezed out
nicely around the edges, filling the gap between the window and fiberglass.
IMHO it doesn't get any easier that that.
Rick
#40956
Southampton. Ont
On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:10 PM, bob88 wrote:
>
> I have been researching alternatives to Weldon which seems to have gotten
> a bad rap from many. The alternatives I have seen on various posts include
> Sika flex 295UV (most popular?), Hysol EA9360, 3M 2216. One I have not seen
> is the product used by Cirrus and apparently made specifically for
> windshield and canopies: PPG PR-1829. Anyone have experience with the
> latter?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421301#421301
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window adhesives |
| From: | "Jackm" <jackm(at)vinetechequipment.com> |
Bob,
Rick is dead on. Call Geoff at Aerosport products as he provides the Lord adhesive.
If building again, I would use to glue the door halves together as well.
--------
Jackm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421331#421331
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bonaco brake lines |
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Hey all, a question for those who have used the Bonaco lines.
I'm about to install the brake lines that run from the calipers, up the
gear legs to the bottom of the fuse. Looking at the AN822-4D caliper
fitting, it appears it will face forward, and the line will run up the leg
on the forward side? Any other options?
Second question, what did you use to secure the brake line to the gear
leg? The lines do have the anti-chafe covering. I was thinking self
fusing tape?
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Bonaco brake lines |
I used friction tape. I think it was called out in the plans. I first used
plans built hard lines but changed to the Bonaco lines after I developed a
leak in one of the hard lines.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 2:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Bonaco brake lines
Hey all, a question for those who have used the Bonaco lines.
I'm about to install the brake lines that run from the calipers, up the gear
legs to the bottom of the fuse. Looking at the AN822-4D caliper fitting, it
appears it will face forward, and the line will run up the leg on the
forward side? Any other options?
Second question, what did you use to secure the brake line to the gear leg?
The lines do have the anti-chafe covering. I was thinking self fusing tape?
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bonaco brake lines |
Same for me, one of my per-plans lines failed at about 1000 hours.
I used fusion tape around the legs for anti-chafe, then zip ties to attach
the flex lines.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
> I used friction tape. I think it was called out in the plans. I first
> used plans built hard lines but changed to the Bonaco lines after I
> developed a leak in one of the hard lines.
>
>
> Rene' Felker
>
> N423CF
>
> 801-721-6080
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Lark
> *Sent:* Monday, March 31, 2014 2:34 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Bonaco brake lines
>
>
> Hey all, a question for those who have used the Bonaco lines.
>
>
> I'm about to install the brake lines that run from the calipers, up the
> gear legs to the bottom of the fuse. Looking at the AN822-4D caliper
> fitting, it appears it will face forward, and the line will run up the leg
> on the forward side? Any other options?
>
>
> Second question, what did you use to secure the brake line to the gear
> leg? The lines do have the anti-chafe covering. I was thinking self
> fusing tape?
>
>
> Thx, Rick
>
> #40956
>
> Southampton, Ont
>
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed Control Module mounting |
I am looking for ideas on an accessible mounting location for a single
Lightspeed Ignition Control Module, the red box.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
RV-10 550 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Control Module mounting |
I've mounted a bunch of boxes on hinges, similar to the top and bottom cowl
mating. That makes easy work of getting things in and out of what would
otherwise be pretty awful locations. You just gotta make sure you have a
workable service loop in the wiring/plumbing/etc., and access to the hinge
pins.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Dick & Vicki Sipp wrote:
> I am looking for ideas on an accessible mounting location for a single
> Lightspeed Ignition Control Module, the red box.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dick Sipp
> RV-10 550 hours
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Control Module mounting |
Bulls eye Dave! That was exactly the kind of idea this feeble brain was
looking for.
Many thanks.
Dick
From: Dave Saylor
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lightspeed Control Module mounting
I've mounted a bunch of boxes on hinges, similar to the top and bottom
cowl mating. That makes easy work of getting things in and out of what
would otherwise be pretty awful locations. You just gotta make sure you
have a workable service loop in the wiring/plumbing/etc., and access to
the hinge pins.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Dick & Vicki Sipp
wrote:
I am looking for ideas on an accessible mounting location for a single
Lightspeed Ignition Control Module, the red box.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
RV-10 550 hours
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
compartment
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
<>
I fabricated all my fuel and oil lines on both my RV-4 and RV-10 with integrated
fire sleeve. Why do you say they cannot be done in the field? They are actually
rather easy to fabricate...
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 1, 2014, at 8:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I will go with integral firesleeve hose there, which cannot be field fabricated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
compartment
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
integral vs integrated
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:01 AM, Michael Kraus wrote:
> >
>
>
> < fabricated.>>
>
> I fabricated all my fuel and oil lines on both my RV-4 and RV-10 with
> integrated fire sleeve. Why do you say they cannot be done in the field?
> They are actually rather easy to fabricate...
> -Mike Kraus
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 8:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> > I will go with integral firesleeve hose there, which cannot be field
> fabricated.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help with FloScan re-location from tunnel to engine |
co
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
"It looks like the transducer is 'unmounted' in this case and just
supported by the fuel hoses. I'm thinking of doing the same. Anyone
with experience using a fuel hose supported Flowscan?"
Many years ago we installed a fuel flow device on our 182. I think it was a FF450??
Back then the instructions were explicit to not hard mount it, but to suspend
it between two flexible hoses. I think the installation kit back then came
with fire-sleeve large enough in diameter to go over the transducer as well
as the two hoses (secured by hose clamps). Last I heard it was still working just
fine, going on at least a dozen years.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421473#421473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel flow sensor mounting |
Here are a couple pictures of a recent install. I've used both
hose-mounted and bracket-mounted methods and both seem to work just fine,
although I just prefer having the cube on a bracket. I started using sheet
steel for making engine-mounted brackets a while back since steel seems to
tolerate vibration better than aluminum. All the stock brackets are steel.
This one is .050" thick.
I originally had my cube mounted between the hoses, tipped at about a 45*
angle. It failed at about 400 hours--just quit giving any data. EI
replaced it, free of charge, with an updated version. The two looked
slightly different.
The only thing that was non-standard about my installation was the angle.
It says somewhere to mount with the wires pointing up, which they
were...mostly...but at an angle. So ever since I've endeavored to mount
them with wires straight up.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow sensor mounting |
| From: | Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com> |
Dave,
There has been a lot of talk regarding the red cube. IMHO this is the
cleanest install I've seen. My question is, how do you attach the black
mount to the throttle body? Is it using the studs that hold the throttle
body to the pan used?
This is perfect timing, I will install it next week..
Craig Rufi
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Dave Saylor <
dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> Here are a couple pictures of a recent install. I've used both
> hose-mounted and bracket-mounted methods and both seem to work just fine,
> although I just prefer having the cube on a bracket. I started using sheet
> steel for making engine-mounted brackets a while back since steel seems to
> tolerate vibration better than aluminum. All the stock brackets are steel.
> This one is .050" thick.
>
> I originally had my cube mounted between the hoses, tipped at about a 45*
> angle. It failed at about 400 hours--just quit giving any data. EI
> replaced it, free of charge, with an updated version. The two looked
> slightly different.
>
> The only thing that was non-standard about my installation was the angle.
> It says somewhere to mount with the wires pointing up, which they
> were...mostly...but at an angle. So ever since I've endeavored to mount
> them with wires straight up.
>
> Dave Saylor
> 831-750-0284 CL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow sensor mounting |
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
Yep, the bracket has two ears to catch the mounting studs below the
throttle body. Would be great if Vans would just extend the cable bracket
fwd about an inch. Oh well. I usually make a paper template and bend it
off of that.
On Wednesday, April 2, 2014, Craig Rufi wrote:
how do you attach the black mount to the throttle body? Is it using the
studs that hold the throttle body
>
>
> Dave Saylor
>> 831-750-0284 CL
>>
>
--
--Dave Saylor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel flow sensor mounting |
I do like Dave=99s idea and likely may go that route. Somebody
should product and sell that bracket. I found a couple pictures in my
archives from Mike Whiskey of a similar idea but uses a potentially
slightly easier bracket to fabricate. Most of us have extra aluminum
angle sitting around.
Ben Westfall
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 8:14 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel flow sensor mounting
Here are a couple pictures of a recent install. I've used both
hose-mounted and bracket-mounted methods and both seem to work just
fine, although I just prefer having the cube on a bracket. I started
using sheet steel for making engine-mounted brackets a while back since
steel seems to tolerate vibration better than aluminum. All the stock
brackets are steel. This one is .050" thick.
I originally had my cube mounted between the hoses, tipped at about a
45* angle. It failed at about 400 hours--just quit giving any data. EI
replaced it, free of charge, with an updated version. The two looked
slightly different.
The only thing that was non-standard about my installation was the
angle. It says somewhere to mount with the wires pointing up, which
they were...mostly...but at an angle. So ever since I've endeavored to
mount them with wires straight up.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow sensor mounting |
| From: | Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com> |
Dave,
Thanks for getting back to me. I'm all over this next week.
Craig
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Dave Saylor <
dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> Yep, the bracket has two ears to catch the mounting studs below the
> throttle body. Would be great if Vans would just extend the cable bracket
> fwd about an inch. Oh well. I usually make a paper template and bend it
> off of that.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 2, 2014, Craig Rufi wrote:
>
> how do you attach the black mount to the throttle body? Is it using the
> studs that hold the throttle body
>
>>
>> Dave Saylor
>>> 831-750-0284 CL
>>>
>>
>
> --
> --Dave Saylor
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bonaco brake lines |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
These are an awesome product. After messing around with the soft aluminum lines,
I bit the bullet and bought the Bonaco lines. They are great for both fuel and
brakes. I used flex silicone tape for securing the lines. It is impervious
to fuel, grease, oil, heat, and has ok anti chafe properties.
--------
See you OSH '14
Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421508#421508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bonaco brake lines |
Hey Airmike, I'm having trouble locating self fusing tape here in S. Ontario. Can
you tell me where you purchased the silicone tape?
Thx, Rick
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "AirMike" wrote:
>
>
> These are an awesome product. After messing around with the soft aluminum lines,
I bit the bullet and bought the Bonaco lines. They are great for both fuel
and brakes. I used flex silicone tape for securing the lines. It is impervious
to fuel, grease, oil, heat, and has ok anti chafe properties.
>
> --------
> See you OSH '14
> Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421508#421508
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bonaco brake lines |
Amazon has it. I think they call it F-4 tape.....
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Bonaco brake lines
Hey Airmike, I'm having trouble locating self fusing tape here in S.
Ontario. Can you tell me where you purchased the silicone tape?
Thx, Rick
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "AirMike" wrote:
>
>
> These are an awesome product. After messing around with the soft aluminum
lines, I bit the bullet and bought the Bonaco lines. They are great for both
fuel and brakes. I used flex silicone tape for securing the lines. It is
impervious to fuel, grease, oil, heat, and has ok anti chafe properties.
>
> --------
> See you OSH '14
> Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421508#421508
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bonaco brake lines |
Aha, I see it. Thanks Rene, I will order some.
Regards, Rick
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 2, 2014, at 8:42 PM, "Rene Felker" wrote:
>
>
> Amazon has it. I think they call it F-4 tape.....
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 6:30 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Bonaco brake lines
>
>
> Hey Airmike, I'm having trouble locating self fusing tape here in S.
> Ontario. Can you tell me where you purchased the silicone tape?
> Thx, Rick
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:39 PM, "AirMike" wrote:
>>
>>
>> These are an awesome product. After messing around with the soft aluminum
> lines, I bit the bullet and bought the Bonaco lines. They are great for both
> fuel and brakes. I used flex silicone tape for securing the lines. It is
> impervious to fuel, grease, oil, heat, and has ok anti chafe properties.
>>
>> --------
>> See you OSH '14
>> Q/B - flying 4 yrs.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421508#421508
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ospreysammy" <helosammy(at)gmail.com> |
Fellow builders and fliers, I am going to be in Yuma, AZ for the next few weeks
and if there are any builders in the area I would like to meet up and see your
project if you don't mind. Thank you for your time.
--------
Sam Clark
Builder # 40972
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421571#421571
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Sale: SL30 tray |
| From: | Neal George <neal.george(at)gmail.com> |
Tray for SL30 & connectors.
Previously installed, excellent condition.
$150 shipped CONUS
Neal George
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For Sale: SL30 tray |
| From: | Alan Mekler MD <amekler(at)metrocast.net> |
Neal,
Thinking of replacing my sl40 with a 30
will the 30 fit in the 40 space?
Alan
On Apr 6, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Neal George wrote:
>
> Tray for SL30 & connectors.
> Previously installed, excellent condition.
>
> $150 shipped CONUS
>
> Neal George
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Hansen <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/05/14 |
In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV touch screen
called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 12:02 AM, RV10-List Digest Server
wrote:
>
> This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
sender to send it again using a different format or email program. (null)/(null)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All
Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>
> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV touch
screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen functionality
just make some features quicker to access. We're flying with one already
and it's very very nice.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major difference....Dynon
gives all nav data updates for free after you pay initial fee for map
software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics for $99 a year. Compare
that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash
drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV touch
screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for the
new screens with matching screw holes, etc?
Phil
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen
> functionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying with
> one already and it's very very nice.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
> for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
> updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
> >
> >> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
> >>
> >> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
The new G3X is a larger screen so you will need to modify your panel. I don'
t know on the pin outs.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
>
> Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for the n
ew screens with matching screw holes, etc?
>
> Phil
>
>
>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint wro
te:
>>
>> And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen fun
ctionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying with one a
lready and it's very very nice.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>> www.itecusa.org
>> www.mavericklsa.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> O: 352-465-4545
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major differ
ence....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay initial fee f
or map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics for $99 a year
. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon updates go on standa
rd USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>> >
>> >> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
I find it amazing what good old fashion competition can produce. Garmin has
been thumbing their nose at customers for years after they bought out UPS,
their only real competitor. Now the experimental market is out building the
rest and Dynon is eating their lunch. While it is good to see Garmin trying
to gain back some of the experimental market, the lingering problem is
Garmin's grossly overpriced subscriptions and non-existent after the sale
customer service.
I can't wait for Dynon to produce their IFR certified GPS box so there is
alternative (competition) to the $10K GTN-650 stuff.
Carl
Dual 10" Dynon EFIS install
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>
> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Doesn't Van's S-LSA ( I think that's the designation ) use the Garmin G3X? Used
to be Dynon. Not a huge market, but apparently Garmin is getting some traction.
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:22 PM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
>
>
> I find it amazing what good old fashion competition can produce. Garmin has
> been thumbing their nose at customers for years after they bought out UPS,
> their only real competitor. Now the experimental market is out building the
> rest and Dynon is eating their lunch. While it is good to see Garmin trying
> to gain back some of the experimental market, the lingering problem is
> Garmin's grossly overpriced subscriptions and non-existent after the sale
> customer service.
>
> I can't wait for Dynon to produce their IFR certified GPS box so there is
> alternative (competition) to the $10K GTN-650 stuff.
>
> Carl
> Dual 10" Dynon EFIS install
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 4:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
> for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
> updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
I=99ve heard this from several resources ( I haven=99t
personally validated yet), which means it is darn next to impossible to
put two screens together using some of the third party panels. If the
bezel was just a little smaller, it would have been a better fit. I
think Garmin shot themselves in the foot on this aspect. This will be a
competitive advantage for the other experimental vendors. (besides the
subscription rates)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The new G3X is a larger screen so you will need to modify your panel. I
don't know on the pin outs.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 6, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for
the new screens with matching screw holes, etc?
Phil
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint
wrote:
And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen
functionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying
with one already and it's very very nice.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen
wrote:
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All
Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
SV touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
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3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along with GRT
and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples (or as close as
you can get because you can't really do an identical comparison)...
I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon uses USB
on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally purchased USB
extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard computer/camera/tablet, etc..)
cards in the front of the screen. That said, USB drives though more bulky,
are slightly less expensive (not a bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if you
want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per year.
The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from Garmin
does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation' for the
mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna for $99).
As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not required
for either system.
Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you intend to
buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which saves quite a
bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase anyway.
To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but a
different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower than 2
single small screens placed side by side.
It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in the
new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big screen,
at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all small screen.
No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth who
knows what might come down the road.
They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that folks
loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for only one of
them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're going to compare
them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit for everyone, then I
wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin, TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering,
etc... It's pretty tough to make a statement that is an absolute which
would cover each person's scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make the
systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want them (like
ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There are pricing and
functional differences there too that you should take into account when
looking at the whole picture.
To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use first-hand
feedback from folks who actually have the system in question, instead of
using hyperbole based on (certified products, portables, or...?). Different
team, different support network, different systems. Also, if you paid $10K
for an IFR GTN, then you paid too much - they have often been on sale for
less than $9K - which I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative
is a decent choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little
interest in making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several
times - the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15
years to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over a
decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and do in
this market!
The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably noticed
their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed. Currently that's the
only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12, though I'm betting that
might change. I'm also betting that at some point this might be an option
in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive with other SLSA's like CubCrafters,
FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have the G3X in them).
I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to remain
objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a subjecting
thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there needs to be more
than one. If either company takes 100% of the market then it's a bad thing,
no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither one of them wants to hear
that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't be advantageous for either
company to quit playing in this market for us as homebuilders. Having this
much strong competition is really quite good for us as builders.
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>
> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative" is
a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR panel
mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along with GRT
> and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples (or as close as
> you can get because you can't really do an identical comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon uses USB
> on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally purchased USB
> extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard computer/camera/tablet, etc..)
> cards in the front of the screen. That said, USB drives though more bulky,
> are slightly less expensive (not a bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if you
> want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from Garmin
> does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation' for the
> mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not required
> for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you intend to
> buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which saves quite a
> bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but a
> different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower than 2
> single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in the
> new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big screen,
> at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth who
> knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that folks
> loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for only one of
> them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're going to compare
> them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit for everyone, then I
> wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin, TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering,
> etc... It's pretty tough to make a statement that is an absolute which
> would cover each person's scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make the
> systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want them (like
> ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There are pricing and
> functional differences there too that you should take into account when
> looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use first-hand
> feedback from folks who actually have the system in question, instead of
> using hyperbole based on (certified products, portables, or...?). Different
> team, different support network, different systems. Also, if you paid $10K
> for an IFR GTN, then you paid too much - they have often been on sale for
> less than $9K - which I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative
> is a decent choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little
> interest in making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several
> times - the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15
> years to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over a
> decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and do in
> this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably noticed
> their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed. Currently that's the
> only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12, though I'm betting that
> might change. I'm also betting that at some point this might be an option
> in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive with other SLSA's like CubCrafters,
> FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to remain
> objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a subjecting
> thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there needs to be more
> than one. If either company takes 100% of the market then it's a bad thing,
> no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither one of them wants to hear
> that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't be advantageous for either
> company to quit playing in this market for us as homebuilders. Having this
> much strong competition is really quite good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle Avionics
> for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All Dynon
> updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Size wise the Garmin screen is =C2=BE=9D taller (which is the same
as the smaller G3X screens currently in the market), and =C2=BD=9D
wider than the Dynon 10=9D screen...
Pinouts are the same.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
I=99ve heard this from several resources ( I haven=99t
personally validated yet), which means it is darn next to impossible to
put two screens together using some of the third party panels. If the
bezel was just a little smaller, it would have been a better fit. I
think Garmin shot themselves in the foot on this aspect. This will be a
competitive advantage for the other experimental vendors. (besides the
subscription rates)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The new G3X is a larger screen so you will need to modify your panel. I
don't know on the pin outs.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 6, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
Anyone know if it's a direct replacement for the regular button'd G3X?
Meaning can you yank the button model and using the same pin-outs for
the new screens with matching screw holes, etc?
Phil
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jesse Saint
wrote:
And the Dynon kept all the buttons and knobs and the the touch screen
functionality just make some features quicker to access. We're flying
with one already and it's very very nice.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen
wrote:
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing. All
Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
SV touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Ooops...sorry, I forgot that! That would be the GNS-400W panel mount IFR
GPS - though that price is the bundled price with a G3X which I also forgot
to add. Too much for my Sunday afternoon brain to remember. Being our first
60degree day of the year has me all giddy!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> -->
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Bennett" <gary(at)bendun.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
and price-tag.
So far, my plane will have Dynon touch-screens, PS Audio, Garmin GTN 650
(built-in NAV/COM) with a second Garmin GTR 200 COM ($ 1,200 but is 10
WATT).
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: April-06-14 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00 per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> -->
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 4/6/2014 9:28 PM, Gary Bennett wrote:
> Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
> and price-tag.
Val NAV 2000 $1165
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/valnav2000.php
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
There are lots of good nav/coms for less than $4500.
My political objection to Garmin is that, for reasons already mentioned including
the buy out of UPS (which imho should never have been allowed) they have a
virtual monopoly on ifr gps - and by offering a good price on the 400W but only
to G3 buyers ther are using their monopoly to buy their way into the EAB EFIS
market.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421659#421659
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
In the real world with a good, properly installed antenna, you and ATC
will not notice the difference between 6 watts and 10 watts.
Most of the old KX 170 and 155 series radios as well as the Narco Mk 12
series were in the 7-8 watt range.
To really see a performance difference you need to step up to the 16-20
watt output, and unless you fly in the flight levels is pretty hard to
justify the cost.
On 4/6/2014 6:28 PM, Gary Bennett wrote:
>
> The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
> NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
> GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
> they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
> Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
> and price-tag.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stein Bruch <stein(at)steinair.com> |
That is definatley true. At the frequncies and levels we are talking
about, the differences aren't exactly linear...meaning that a 40% increase
in wattage doesn't necessarily and automatically equate to a 40% increase
in perceived or real performance. That said, the higher power radio will
often "step on" the lower powered one in some instances. There are a lot
more variables that affect radio quality than pure wattage. I've seen some
panel mounted 5W handhelds with and exceptionally good installation
outperform a poorly installed 10W radio. Again, just a lot of variables
that don't make things an absolute!
Cheers,
Stein
On Sunday, April 6, 2014, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> In the real world with a good, properly installed antenna, you and ATC
> will not notice the difference between 6 watts and 10 watts.
> Most of the old KX 170 and 155 series radios as well as the Narco Mk 12
> series were in the 7-8 watt range.
> To really see a performance difference you need to step up to the 16-20
> watt output, and unless you fly in the flight levels is pretty hard to
> justify the cost.
>
> On 4/6/2014 6:28 PM, Gary Bennett wrote:
>
>>
>> The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
>> NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are
>> in
>> GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others)
>> but
>> they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
>> Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name
>> brands
>> and price-tag.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bonaco brake lines |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
Black electrical tape secures my Bonaco flex lines nicely. I don't have oil or
fuel in my gear legs.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421664#421664
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window adhesives |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I used Weld-On 45(thicker version of 10). Uses a cartridge gun. Another builder
friend used the same and is close to flying.
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421666#421666
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tal Holloway <whodja(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
Can anyone tell me about what is included in the QB finishing kit? When I finish
my tail kit and order the wing and fuselage QB kits, how much lead time and
in what order will I need to plan on my avionics and engine?
Thank you,
Tal Holloway
Apex, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
and price-tag.
So far, my plane will have Dynon touch-screens, PS Audio, Garmin GTN 650
(built-in NAV/COM) with a second Garmin GTR 200 COM ($ 1,200 but is 10
WATT).
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: April-06-14 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00
> per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an
> antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might
> purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show
> and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who
> have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really
> quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> -->
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
If you have the cash, order the wing, fuselage QB and the finish kits
together and save some shipping cost.
Engine must be on to fit the cowl. If you do not have access to a prop hub
identical to the prop you will use, you need to buy the prop as well. The
prop and spinner must be on the engine to do the cowl.
Get everything done before you buy Avionics. Products like Garmin will have
warrantees expire before you ever get the plane in the air. What you can do
however is decide on about what avionics you will use so that you can buy
things like autopilot servos and mounts and get them installed.
There is a lot of work to do once you get the fuselage ready for the canopy
top, doors and glass (as in a year for me). Do these before engine mount.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tal Holloway
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at
AirVenture
Can anyone tell me about what is included in the QB finishing kit? When I
finish my tail kit and order the wing and fuselage QB kits, how much lead
time and in what order will I need to plan on my avionics and engine?
Thank you,
Tal Holloway
Apex, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Carl,
Please elaborate on this and the other surprises you experienced with the gtn650
install.
My surprise was the connector illustrations for p1004 was mislabeled in rev 4,5,&6
of the aml-stc install manual causing the connector to be wired backward.
I just started experiencing a squelch issue on my 650 that wasn't there before
Garmin repaired the unit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 8:24 AM, "Carl Froehlich" wrote:
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Bennett" <gary(at)bendun.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
RE: 6 watt vs 10 watt. No matter what, line-of-sight is always going to be
the limiting factor, but some places (like most of Canada where I live)
don't have ATC repeater stations every 10 miles. Lots of times I can hear
ATC but they can't hear me.
If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why wouldn't you?
Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00
Some of the issues surrounding which brands go into your panel has much to
do with which are compatible with the features of your EFIS system. I have
not yet finished my study, but so far, reading any of the installation
guides for Dynon, Garmin and AFS will give you a list of compatible products
that can be operated from the efis system. Ie: frequency tuning (NAV and
COM), transponder, etc. It seems that most show a list of Garmin gear, and
not much else.
A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to cross-populate
between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that feature now, Dynon and G3X
don't.
The other issue is panel space. Yes, you can buy a cheap COM only and a
separate VAL AVIONICS NAV, but now there are 2 boxes to find holes for. I
would much prefer a single NAV/COM unit.
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
-->
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
The unit in question is the Garmin GPS 400W @ $ 3,995. It does NOT include
NAV/COM. So add another $4,495 to that for a NAV/COM unit and now you are in
GTN 650 territory. Yes, Dynon offers a COM unit (as does AFS and others) but
they tend to be 6 WATT transmitters compared to the 10 WATT (16 optional)
Garmin offering. Adding a NAV radio means sticking with the big-name brands
and price-tag.
So far, my plane will have Dynon touch-screens, PS Audio, Garmin GTN 650
(built-in NAV/COM) with a second Garmin GTR 200 COM ($ 1,200 but is 10
WATT).
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: April-06-14 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Stein, in your (excellent) reply below, you mentioned a $3,995 "alternative"
is a decent choice over the $9k GTN. What were you referring to? An IFR
panel mounted GPS? Which would that be?
Thanks,
John J
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, "Stein Bruch" wrote:
>
>
> To be fair (and I'm a dealer for both who sells a lot of both along
> with GRT and AFS), you need to keep the comparisons apples to apples
> (or as close as you can get because you can't really do an identical
comparison)...
>
> I'm not aware of either company using "proprietary memory". Dynon
> uses USB on the back of the screen (or in the panel with an optionally
> purchased USB extension), Garmin uses standard SD (standard
> computer/camera/tablet, etc..) cards in the front of the screen. That
> said, USB drives though more bulky, are slightly less expensive (not a
bunch though) on a $/Gig basis.
>
> The "Free" Dynon data costs you $500 to turn on (and an extra $250 if
> you want their GPS), then you are correct that the data is only $99.00
> per
year.
> The equivalent data (as close as you can get for that package) from
> Garmin does cost more at $149 per year, but there is no 'activation'
> for the mapping, and their GPS is built in (but you have to buy an
> antenna
for $99).
> As far as I know, Jepp data is optional for both systems and not
> required for either system.
>
> Also note that if you have a Garmin IFR GPS in the plane that you
> intend to buy data for, then you can purchase a bundled package which
> saves quite a bit of money on the IFR subscription that you might
> purchase
anyway.
>
> To Jesse's point about the G3X Touch size, it is the same height, but
> a different width. While bigger on its own, it is slightly narrower
> than 2 single small screens placed side by side.
>
> It is a pin for pin replacement, you can yank out the old and plug in
> the new. That said, unlike Dynon where you can share a small and a big
> screen, at this time Garmin will only work with all big screens or all
small screen.
> No mixing and matching as of yet, though with the built in Bluetooth
> who knows what might come down the road.
>
> They are both great systems of which we sell a bunch (and note that
> folks loves the brand they have, especially if they are a dealer for
> only one of them), but one needs to keep the facts straight if you're
> going to compare them objectively. If one solution were a perfect fit
> for everyone, then I wouldn't still carry AFS, Dynon, GRT, Garmin,
> TruTrak, Trio, PS Engineering, etc... It's pretty tough to make a
> statement that is an absolute which would cover each person's
scenario/mission/budget/desires/needs, etc..
>
> Then there is the extraneous stuff you need to buy to actually make
> the systems work, along with the stuff that you buy because you want
> them (like ADSB boxes, radios, transponders, intercoms, etc..). There
> are pricing and functional differences there too that you should take
> into account when looking at the whole picture.
>
> To Carl's point about customer service, it would be better to use
> first-hand feedback from folks who actually have the system in
> question, instead of using hyperbole based on (certified products,
> portables, or...?). Different team, different support network,
> different systems. Also, if you paid $10K for an IFR GTN, then you
> paid too much - they have often been on sale for less than $9K - which
> I agree is still expensive! :) The $3995 alternative is a decent
> choice right now, and I think you'll find Dynon has little interest in
> making a certified GPS as they have publically stated several times -
> the cost verses ROI just isn't there. It took Garmin around 15 years
> to sell 100K of those things, so getting payback on the many, many
> millions in NRE is something most folks just don't to spread out over
> a decade or so. That said, I'm betting Dynon still has a LOT to show
> and
do in this market!
>
> The Vans SLSA currently uses the Skyview system, though you probably
> noticed their E-LSA at SnF with a Dual G3X system installed.
> Currently that's the only way to get a dual screen system in an RV-12,
> though I'm betting that might change. I'm also betting that at some
> point this might be an option in the S-LSA (in order to be competitive
> with other SLSA's like CubCrafters, FlightDesigns, Tecnam, etc.. who
> have
the G3X in them).
>
> I like healthy debate as much as the next guy, but I just like to
> remain objective as possible - which is difficult when discussing a
> subjecting thing like this! I'm glad there is more than one, and there
> needs to be more than one. If either company takes 100% of the market
> then it's a bad thing, no matter who the company is. I'm sure neither
> one of them wants to hear that, but it's the truth...and it wouldn't
> be advantageous for either company to quit playing in this market for
> us as homebuilders. Having this much strong competition is really
> quite
good for us as builders.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> Well, Dynon introduced their 10" touch screen 2 weeks ago. Major
> difference....Dynon gives all nav data updates for free after you pay
> initial fee for map software. Dynon offers all charts via Seattle
> Avionics for $99 a year. Compare that to Garmin/Jepp update pricing.
> All Dynon updates go on standard USB flash drive, no proprietary memory.
>
>> On 4/6/2014 12:19 PM, Rich Hansen wrote:
>> -->
>>
>> In case anyone may be interested Garmin just released a new 10.6 in
>> SV
> touch screen called the G3X Touch. Looks pretty cool!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
My GTN-650 problems:
#1: Configuration module not provided (long story). I would not expect
others to have this problem.
#2: This comm software fix. This is/was a known problem with the GTN
series: http://garmin.blogs.com/files/1123.pdf Perhaps this is now fixed in
production - don't know. I was an early buyer.
#3: The 650 went dark from time to time, then restarted itself a few
seconds later. Unit sent back to Garmin for repair. Has worked since.
There is another known problem with the GTN-650 regarding interference
between the communications section and the GPS receiver. Here is a note I
got from the avionics shop on this problem:
One other thing I have seen. Transmitting with the comm causes a weird loop
effect in the ELT antenna/coax and this knocks out the GPS. Try
disconnecting the ELT coax and see if that solves it.
So in other words, doing a GPS approach and transmitting on the GTN-650
radio caused the GPS signals to drop out and you get the "abort approach"
message. In my install I also noted a significant degrade in NAV signal
when transmitting on the 650.
For my install the ELT had nothing to do with the problem. I did find the
problem gone when I replace the installed MicroAir transceiver (comm #2)
with the Dynon radio (the MicroAir was my temporary comm #2 while waiting
for the Dynon radio to come out). After this change the GPS and NAV signal
degrade was gone. I note the GTN-650 GPS and Nav signals were not degraded
when transmitting on the MicroAir. So the MicroAir in receive mode somehow
feed back into the GTN-650 GPS and NAV receivers when the 650 transmitted,
even though the MicroAir was not transmitting.
So for the good news. Now after all the issues are resolved the GTN-650
works as advertised. The only lingering issue is the overpriced annual data
base subscription.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Carl,
Please elaborate on this and the other surprises you experienced with the
gtn650 install.
My surprise was the connector illustrations for p1004 was mislabeled in rev
4,5,&6 of the aml-stc install manual causing the connector to be wired
backward.
I just started experiencing a squelch issue on my 650 that wasn't there
before Garmin repaired the unit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 8:24 AM, "Carl Froehlich" <
carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:
--> < carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Guys
Since we are right now discussing the new Garmin touchscreen, and also
Dynon's, I wonder if any of you has built, very recently, a comparison chart
between the biggest contenders on this market (Dynon, GRT, Garmin, AFS and
MGL) you could share with the group.
I would be very thankful if I could see a very recent comparison chart of
EFIS's for our Experimental birds.
Anybody?
Thanks
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Things have changed a little since I made my decisions. Dynon bought AFS
and is operating them as an independent subsidiary for now, as far as I
know.
That may or may not give AFS long term stability. Grand Rapids has
always been the big unknown. I shied away because they didn't make all
their manuals available on web prior to purchase, and I didn't find
enough answers on their web site. I have no idea of their long term
stability.
The choice for me came down to whether the autopilot was built-in and
integrated vs a separate system. If separate is important to you, you
will pay several thousand extra for that independence. There are good
arguments either way. Beyond that, at the time Garmin was noticeably
more expensive, but has since lowered their price. Also consider price
of acquisition vs keeping data current for whatever number of years is
meaningful to you, and if you are not in US how that impacts
availability of data/charts and price. Dynon, AFS and Grand Rapids were
fairly close on features and price, outside the autopilot price.
(actually, at the time Dynon was behind the other two in features, but
has mostly caught up).
On 4/7/2014 7:25 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Since we are right now discussing the new Garmin touchscreen, and also
> Dynon's, I wonder if any of you has built, very recently, a comparison chart
> between the biggest contenders on this market (Dynon, GRT, Garmin, AFS and
> MGL) you could share with the group.
>
> I would be very thankful if I could see a very recent comparison chart of
> EFIS's for our Experimental birds.
>
> Anybody?
>
> Thanks
> Carlos
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
Are you sure about that? I am not aware of any EFIS or device that can
"push" a flightplan from the EFIS over to one of the certified Garmin
GPSes....at least the AFS in our RV7 won't do that to the 430W. That said
pretty much all of them will accept the flightplans/approaches FROM the IFR
GPS over to the EFIS.
Also note that the remote mount version of the GTR-200 (GTR-20) is even
cheaper at $995.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:29 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
.......If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why wouldn't
you?
Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00.......
.........A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to
cross-populate between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that feature now,
Dynon and G3X don't........
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
-->
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <napolin(at)me.com> |
Actualy I was talking to a Garmin rep about that yesterday at Sun-n-Fun and his
response was that the FAA wont allow a certified IFR gps to receive a flight
plan from another device.
Nikolaos Napoli
> On Apr 7, 2014, at 10:37 AM, Stein Bruch wrote:
>
>
> Are you sure about that? I am not aware of any EFIS or device that can
> "push" a flightplan from the EFIS over to one of the certified Garmin
> GPSes....at least the AFS in our RV7 won't do that to the 430W. That said
> pretty much all of them will accept the flightplans/approaches FROM the IFR
> GPS over to the EFIS.
>
> Also note that the remote mount version of the GTR-200 (GTR-20) is even
> cheaper at $995.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Bennett
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:29 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> .......If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why wouldn't
> you?
> Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00.......
>
>
> .........A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to
> cross-populate between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that feature now,
> Dynon and G3X don't........
>
>
> Gary Bennett
>
> http://bendun.net/
> http://photos.bendun.net/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
> Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
> -->
>
> Gary,
>
> Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
> audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
> in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
>
> WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
> instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
> operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as Comm #2
> and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
Thanks for the update. I hope I'm past those. Just got all the current s
oftware updates last month.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 10:15 AM, "Carl Froehlich" w
rote:
My GTN-650 problems:
#1: Configuration module not provided (long story). I would not expect oth
ers to have this problem.
#2: This comm software fix. This is/was a known problem with the GTN serie
s: http://garmin.blogs.com/files/1123.pdf Perhaps this is now fixed in prod
uction - don't know. I was an early buyer.
#3: The 650 went dark from time to time, then restarted itself a few second
s later. Unit sent back to Garmin for repair. Has worked since.
There is another known problem with the GTN-650 regarding interference betwe
en the communications section and the GPS receiver. Here is a note I got fr
om the avionics shop on this problem:
One other thing I have seen. Transmitting with the comm causes a weird loop e
ffect in the ELT antenna/coax and this knocks out the GPS. Try disconnecting
the ELT coax and see if that solves it.
So in other words, doing a GPS approach and transmitting on the GTN-650 radi
o caused the GPS signals to drop out and you get the =9Cabort approach
=9D message. In my install I also noted a significant degrade in NAV s
ignal when transmitting on the 650.
For my install the ELT had nothing to do with the problem. I did find the p
roblem gone when I replace the installed MicroAir transceiver (comm #2) with
the Dynon radio (the MicroAir was my temporary comm #2 while waiting for th
e Dynon radio to come out). After this change the GPS and NAV signal degrad
e was gone. I note the GTN-650 GPS and Nav signals were not degraded when t
ransmitting on the MicroAir. So the MicroAir in receive mode somehow feed b
ack into the GTN-650 GPS and NAV receivers when the 650 transmitted, even th
ough the MicroAir was not transmitting.
So for the good news. Now after all the issues are resolved the GTN-650 wor
ks as advertised. The only lingering issue is the overpriced annual data ba
se subscription.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Carl,
Please elaborate on this and the other surprises you experienced with the gt
n650 install.
My surprise was the connector illustrations for p1004 was mislabeled in rev 4
,5,&6 of the aml-stc install manual causing the connector to be wired backwa
rd.
I just started experiencing a squelch issue on my 650 that wasn't there befo
re Garmin repaired the unit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2014, at 8:24 AM, "Carl Froehlich" wr
ote:
-->
Gary,
Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you use a PS
audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three surprises I had
in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out of my pocket.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Planning to order the QB fuselage and wings at AirVenture |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Hi Tal,
As Carl said, order avionics last. They change so fast that anything you buy today
will be obsolete before you fly. Also - contrary to everything else - they
are becoming less expensive or more capable (your choice).
As he noted, you may save a few dollars shipping if you order the finish kit (same
kit, slow or quick build) with the QB wings and fuselage. But you will need
storage space for it. In the past (2008) the QB fuselage and wings could have
backlogs as long as 4 months. Call Vans and ask for the current status (I think
it's on their web site but may not be the latest info). Finally, the engine.
What is your plan? If you were hoping to find a good used one they are rare,
you just have to watch constantly. If an overhaul, ask your overhauler about
lead times and time to find a useable core. If factory new, you have a choice.
These things have been inflating faster than the stock market, so you may consider
buying it and the prop (Vans offers a $1K discount if you buy both at the
same time) during this year's OSH/AirVenture. They usually have a special,
like free shipping and free long term preservation oil. Otherwise, engine lead
times are a few months.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421714#421714
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin Touch screen |
...unless that other device is also a certified box. Most of them (the
GNS's and GTN's) will allow cross fill from other certified boxes, just not
any of the experimental EFISes that I'm aware of.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
Actualy I was talking to a Garmin rep about that yesterday at Sun-n-Fun and
his response was that the FAA wont allow a certified IFR gps to receive a
flight plan from another device.
Nikolaos Napoli
> On Apr 7, 2014, at 10:37 AM, Stein Bruch wrote:
>
>
> Are you sure about that? I am not aware of any EFIS or device that can
> "push" a flightplan from the EFIS over to one of the certified Garmin
> GPSes....at least the AFS in our RV7 won't do that to the 430W. That
> said pretty much all of them will accept the flightplans/approaches
> FROM the IFR GPS over to the EFIS.
>
> Also note that the remote mount version of the GTR-200 (GTR-20) is
> even cheaper at $995.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Bennett
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 8:29 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
>
> .......If you can get 10 watts for the same price as 6 watts, why
> wouldn't you?
> Garmin GTR 200 is only $ 1,195.00.......
>
>
> .........A more rare feature is the ability for flight plans to
> cross-populate between EFIS and IFR GPS Navigator. AFS has that
> feature now, Dynon and G3X don't........
>
>
> Gary Bennett
>
> http://bendun.net/
> http://photos.bendun.net/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Froehlich
> Sent: April-07-14 8:25 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Garmin Touch screen
>
> -->
>
> Gary,
>
> Make sure you ask for the special communication software mod if you
> use a PS audio panel with the GTN-650. This was the second of three
> surprises I had in with my GTN-650 install - and that I had to pay for out
of my pocket.
>
> WRT the Dynon 6 watt transceiver. I have one as Comm #2. Without an
> instrumented range I suspect you will never see/hear a difference in
> operation between 6 and 10 watt outputs. I have one in my RV-10 as
> Comm #2 and like it. I'll use it in the upcoming RV-8 as well.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
I"m not sure it's a case of "other certified boxes" or "other Garmin boxes". Recall
a few years ago someone was marketing a box with speech recogniton - you
could just talk into it and it would push a flight plan into the 4xxW box, thru
the cross-fill port. It even had victor airways. Garmin issued a new software
update for 4xxW which changed the software protocol on the cross-fill, effectively
putting them out of business, and anyone who bought one had a useless piece
of hardware.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421721#421721
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin Touch screen |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 4/7/2014 9:29 AM, Gary Bennett wrote:
> The other issue is panel space. Yes, you can buy a cheap COM only and a
> separate VAL AVIONICS NAV, but now there are 2 boxes to find holes for. I
> would much prefer a single NAV/COM unit.
The VAL units are one inch in height, so you can install a Val COM and a
Val NAV in a single hole approximately the same space as a single
NAV/COM such as KX-155, etc, and slightly larger (about 0.4 inch) hole
than a GNC255. They also link together and talk the same protocol as
the SL30 to allow remote channel changing, etc, which I believe all of
the major EFIS units support.
Total cost of the Val COM + NAV is about $2150, which is slightly more
than half that of an SL30 or GNC255A for similar functionality.
I am not trying to argue, just am pointing out that there is at least
one alternative to Garmin in this area. The Val NAV is relatively new
to the market so it will be interesting to see how well it does.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
> they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to purchase,
> and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend hours
pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I purchased one
last summer. One issue is that there are often new features released in
the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile to update the online
documentation to match, but they are pretty good about sending out email
updates about how to use the new features and also posting the info to
their new forum site. Not quite the same thing, I know, but at least
the info is publicly available.
I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released. Looks
like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
Over two years ago. Glad they have fixed that.
On 4/7/2014 11:07 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
>> they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to
>> purchase, and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
>
> Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend
> hours pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I
> purchased one last summer. One issue is that there are often new
> features released in the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile
> to update the online documentation to match, but they are pretty good
> about sending out email updates about how to use the new features and
> also posting the info to their new forum site. Not quite the same
> thing, I know, but at least the info is publicly available.
>
> I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released.
> Looks like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
>
> -Dj
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
GRT has been getting much more caught up since they hired Ben and
Katie...but I've still been beating them up over not having voice warnings
on their engine monitor...AFS had it many years ago, Dynon 2nd, and finally
Garmin - they need to do that to remain competitive in my opinion.
The mini is also an attractive product - they just need to deliver them.
It's been awhile since I showed one in my booth a OSH last year! :)
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen)
Over two years ago. Glad they have fixed that.
On 4/7/2014 11:07 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> On 4/7/2014 10:31 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> Grand Rapids has always been the big unknown. I shied away because
>> they didn't make all their manuals available on web prior to
>> purchase, and I didn't find enough answers on their web site.
>
> Kelly, when were you looking? About a year and a half ago I spend
> hours pouring through the documentation on the GRT site before I
> purchased one last summer. One issue is that there are often new
> features released in the GRT software and it seems to take them awhile
> to update the online documentation to match, but they are pretty good
> about sending out email updates about how to use the new features and
> also posting the info to their new forum site. Not quite the same
> thing, I know, but at least the info is publicly available.
>
> I am really impressed with the new "Mini" that they just released.
> Looks like it will make an excellent backup EFIS unit.
>
> -Dj
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Stein will jump in here soon and caution, that everyone likes what they bought
best! So for full disclosure, I went with GRT and I am very happy!!
But, I agree, the GRT documentation is a bit fragmented. You have to read thru
all the info all over their web site; software upgrades are on the software upgrade
page, and take a while to make it into the manuals; some info that applies
to the HX is found only in the HXr manuals, and vice versa. The "tekies" understand
that the 'guts' are the same inside these boxes so it makes sense to
look in both manuals, but not everyone appreciates that. So there is less "hand-holding"
from GRT for those to whom a computer is an alien device.
They recently hired a tech writer to improve this area, and I think it is getting
better.
As to autopilots: Compare apples to apples. IF you start with a 2 screen, 1 AirData
computer EFIS system, you can:
1. Add EFIS company servos
2. Add EFIS company servos and an additional AirData computer
3. Add a stand-alone (TRIO or TT) autopilot
Option (1) is the least expensive, but offers no redundancy (if the airdata fails,
so does the EFIS and the Autopilot). Option (2) and (3) offer about the same
redundancy, with (3) offering insurance against a system wide software bug.
Options (2) and (3) are pretty close in price. Option (3) costs more panel space.
Frankly, if you only fly VFR, it's hard to beat option (1). If you fly IFR, it's
your call.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421734#421734
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
Stein,
Although I usually agree with you, not this time. Between the flashing master caution
light (which is really bright) and the the flashing red on the screen(s)
(whether it's oil pressure, CHT, etc.) I don't see how anyone could ignore the
engine warnings, and I do not want a voice yelling at me "oil pressure, oil
pressure" if I boot up the EIS (which I do) prior to engine start.
OTOH, the one audio warning they do need is for angle of attack, since the most
critical time (landing approach) is also when you are concentrating the most
out the windscreen. The D-6 variable warning tone is perfect in this regard.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421735#421735
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which EFIS (was Garmin Touch screen) |
I can buy that reasoning and also respect that position. There are times
when I dislike "lola" scolding me, but then there are other times when I'm
cruising along not looking at the panel where I find it a help. I find it
useful to at least be able to turn her/him on or off depending on how I feel
March 02, 2014 - April 07, 2014
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-jr