RV10-Archive.digest.vol-kd
August 30, 2014 - September 21, 2014
>>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>>>
>>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it m
isses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>>>
>>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>>
>>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be send
ing electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the b
uss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus
the start).
>>>
>>>
>>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want
to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where you
rs is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub panel
, so I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and buss, or
between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what you expect,
positive charge or discharge. You would have difficulty connecting
between battery and starter relay because it is #4 wire, requiring
bigger terminals than the shunt is intended to take, and I don't think
any shunt is designed for over 100 amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times
that. So your #2 and #3 necessarily have to be the same place and
probably will be your choice.
On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the start
> without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see 0 Amps
> on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what would be
> seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint > wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus. Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry > wrote:
>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them
>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this
text, it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2
wire and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I
missing something?
An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the alternator
output (=9CB=9D terminal). *A battery ammeter shunt should be i
nstalled between
the battery positive terminal and the battery contactor.* Depending on the
location of the alternator or battery relative to its supported electrical
bus, it is typically desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near
where the alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the
firewall.
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote
:
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and buss, or
> between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what you expect,
> positive charge or discharge. You would have difficulty connecting betwee
n
> battery and starter relay because it is #4 wire, requiring bigger termina
ls
> than the shunt is intended to take, and I don't think any shunt is design
ed
> for over 100 amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the start
>> without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see 0 Amps on
>> a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what would be seen
>> monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint > > wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps positive
>> which is a great indication that your alternator is working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus. Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> O: 352-465-4545
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry > > wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like
>>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>>
>>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>>>
>>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery;
>>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT
>>> to the main buss.)
>>>
>>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>>
>>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can
>>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them
>>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then I'm getting
>>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>>
>>>
>>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3
>>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
>>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking of putting
>>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a G3X screen
>>> and access it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall
where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the
battery? So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have
less resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are designed for
0-50mv, where 50 mv equals full scale). The only current you see at the
battery besides what goes to the buss is the starter and anything else
that you bypass the buss for some reason.
You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt.
#8 from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you
want.
I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any
certified aircraft that do it that way.
On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this
> text, it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the
> #2 wire and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that
> battery. Am I missing something?
>
> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter shunt should
> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen > wrote:
>
> >
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
> choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
> load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>
> >> wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
> than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
> positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is
> working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
> Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
> that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
> if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> >
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285 >
> O: 352-465-4545 >
> F: 815-377-3694 >
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>
> >> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
> seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
> the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
> the battery;
> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
> from the ALT
> to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
> Battery can
> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
> them
> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
> I'm getting
> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
> option 3
> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
> of putting
> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
> G3X screen
> and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
>
> D============================================
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> D============================================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
If the #2 wire goes to the starter solenoid and the buss is connected to
that same point with #8 then the shunt can be placed in the #8 line and
not carry starter current. Then the shunt will read the charge current
minus the load current. It all depends on what data you're interested in.
I want to know the health of my alternator and my battery ..... I don't
care what the 'load' is. Putting the shunt in the buss to battery link
gives me what I am looking for. Also, a voltmeter .... seems like every
accessory has one in it .... will tell you the other half of the data
you should have.
I agree with Kelly .... you don't want anything in that #2 cable between
the battery and the starter .... except the starter solenoid and master
solenoid. Anyway a 300+A shunt is pricey.
Linn
On 8/30/2014 8:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this
> text, it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the
> #2 wire and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that
> battery. Am I missing something?
>
> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter shunt should
> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen > wrote:
>
> >
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
> choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
> load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>
> >> wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
> than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
> positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is
> working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
> Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
> that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
> if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> >
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285 >
> O: 352-465-4545 >
> F: 815-377-3694 >
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>
> >> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
> seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
> the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
> the battery;
> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
> from the ALT
> to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
> Battery can
> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
> them
> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
> I'm getting
> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
> option 3
> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
> of putting
> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
> G3X screen
> and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
>
> D============================================
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> D============================================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
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>
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>
> ===================================
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
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> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
I agree. From your earlier email, though, there are actually all 3 choices. You
could see how much the bus is using by connecting the alternator to the battery
side of the shunt and the bus to the other side. As I mentioned earlier, though,
this doesn't give valuable information compared to the other two options.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 9:04 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall where you
might do that, but it makes no sense.
> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the battery? So
you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have less resolution of
low current movement. (all shunts are designed for 0-50mv, where 50 mv equals
full scale). The only current you see at the battery besides what goes to the
buss is the starter and anything else that you bypass the buss for some reason.
> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt. #8 from
starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you want.
> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any certified aircraft
that do it that way.
>
>> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with..... This
is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this text, it leads
me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire and it would
read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I missing something?
>>
>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
>> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter shunt should
>> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
>> choice.
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
>> load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>>
>> > >> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
>> than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you have
>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
>> positive
>> which is a great indication that your alternator is
>> working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
>> Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
>> that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
>> if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>> >
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285 > >
>> O: 352-465-4545 > >
>> F: 815-377-3694 > >
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>>
>> > >> wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
>> seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
>> the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
>> the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
>> from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
>> Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
>> them
>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
>> I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
>> option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also
>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
>> of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
>> G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and I'll try to
read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates. I can
build a reference load chart (by running on battery only during a test
session) to determine exactly what each piece of equipment pulls and how I
might be able to shed load if needed.
Phil
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote
:
>
> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall where
> you might do that, but it makes no sense.
> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the battery?
> So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have less
> resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are designed for 0-50mv,
> where 50 mv equals full scale). The only current you see at the battery
> besides what goes to the buss is the starter and anything else that you
> bypass the buss for some reason.
> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt. #8
> from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you want
.
> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any certified
> aircraft that do it that way.
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
>> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this te
xt,
>> it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire a
nd
>> it would read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I missi
ng
>> something?
>>
>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
>> alternator output (=9CB=9D terminal). */A battery ammete
r shunt should
>>
>> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>>
>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen > > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
>> choice.
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
>> load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming please
.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>>
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
>> than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you ha
ve
>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
>> positive
>> which is a great indication that your alternator is
>> working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
>> Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
>> that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
>> if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>> >
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285 > >
>> O: 352-465-4545 > >
>> F: 815-377-3694 >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>>
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
>> seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
>> the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
>> the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
>> from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
>> Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
>> them
>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
>> I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
>> option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm als
o
>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
>> of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
>> G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ======================
=============
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lis
t
>> ======================
=============
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ======================
=============
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ======================
=============
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Knowing which piece draws X amps is a good exercise, but what do you do
with the data? With modern equipment the load is comparatively small
and with the transponder and strobes off a good battery should outlast
your fuel supply.
Alternator states are typically good charge (depending on battery level)
or no charge. A slipping belt will be in-between. Batteries are more
insidious .... they fail slowly at first and then gather steam towards
useless. A good battery health indicator is the battery voltage just
before start ..... how much did it lose since you last flew? I have a
desulfator trickle charger that I hook up after each flight so my
'settling time' is rather short.
IMHO, of course!
Linn
On 8/30/2014 9:42 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and I'll try
> to read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
>
> I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates. I
> can build a reference load chart (by running on battery only during a
> test session) to determine exactly what each piece of equipment pulls
> and how I might be able to shed load if needed.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen > wrote:
>
> >
>
> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the
> firewall where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the
> battery? So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will
> have less resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are
> designed for 0-50mv, where 50 mv equals full scale). The only
> current you see at the battery besides what goes to the buss is
> the starter and anything else that you bypass the buss for some
> reason.
> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a
> shunt. #8 from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the
> information you want.
> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any
> certified aircraft that do it that way.
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling
> with..... This is a direct quote from the G3X installation
> manual and from this text, it leads me to believe that it
> could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire and it would read the
> charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I missing
> something?
>
> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter
> shunt should
>
> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the
> battery
> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>
> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is
> typically
> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the
> firewall.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen
>
> >> wrote:
>
>
> >>
>
>
> You really only have two choices. Either between
> Alternator and
> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells
> you what
> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay
> because it
> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is
> intended
> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be
> your
> choice.
>
> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Good feedback so far.
>
> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and
> handles the
> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>
> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do
> you see
> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so
> inflight?
>
> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs
> monitoring a
> load at the buss input.
>
> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts
> coming please.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>
> >
>
>
> >>> wrote:
>
> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it
> goes more
> than a
> couple of amps negative with the engine running,
> then you have
> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+
> amps
> positive
> which is a great indication that your alternator is
> working well
> enough to recharge your battery while powering the
> bus.
> Knowing
> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
> that's all.
> The one from the alternator is good too, so you
> will know
> if it
> isn't putting out amperage.
>
> The battery info is my favorite and most
> informative one.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> >
>
> >>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
> <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
> C: 352-427-0285
> >
> >>
> O: 352-465-4545
> >
> >>
> F: 815-377-3694
> >
>
> >>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>
> >
>
>
> >>> wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt
> locations and it
> seems like
> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the
> output of
> the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the
> load on
> the battery;
> but it misses the contributions of electrons
> coming
> from the ALT
> to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot
> for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the
> ALT and
> Battery can
> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be
> measuring
> them
> before they enter the buss as they're
> consumed. Then
> I'm getting
> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I
> really like
> option 3
> but want to make sure I'm not missing
> something. I'm also
> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm
> thinking
> of putting
> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can
> yank a
> G3X screen
> and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
> D============================================
>
> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D============================================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
I think I just sorted it out in my head. I was thinking that the #8
B-Lead, #2 Battery, and #8 Buss feed wires would all bind at the
battery-side post of the starter solenoid. This would mean I have a
single feed to the 'real' buss bar.
I'm now 99% sure that's not the case. I need to look at it closer, but I
believe I've got a connection for the B-Lead on one end of the buss and on
the other end of the buss I have a battery connection. That makes perfect
sense when someone says to put it "in the battery lead".
I won't be back at the hangar until Tuesday, but I'm pretty sure I just
figured it out. Sometimes I'm dense!
Phil
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Linn Walters wrote
:
> Knowing which piece draws X amps is a good exercise, but what do you do
> with the data? With modern equipment the load is comparatively small and
> with the transponder and strobes off a good battery should outlast your
> fuel supply.
>
> Alternator states are typically good charge (depending on battery level)
> or no charge. A slipping belt will be in-between. Batteries are more
> insidious .... they fail slowly at first and then gather steam towards
> useless. A good battery health indicator is the battery voltage just
> before start ..... how much did it lose since you last flew? I have a
> desulfator trickle charger that I hook up after each flight so my 'settli
ng
> time' is rather short.
> IMHO, of course!
> Linn
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 9:42 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and I'll try to
> read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
>
> I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates. I can
> build a reference load chart (by running on battery only during a test
> session) to determine exactly what each piece of equipment pulls and how
I
> might be able to shed load if needed.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the firewall
>> where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
>> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at the battery
?
>> So you have a shunt that can handle the current, it will have less
>> resolution of low current movement. (all shunts are designed for 0-50mv,
>> where 50 mv equals full scale). The only current you see at the battery
>> besides what goes to the buss is the starter and anything else that you
>> bypass the buss for some reason.
>> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install a shunt. #
8
>> from starter relay to the buss will tell you all the information you wan
t.
>> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of any certifie
d
>> aircraft that do it that way.
>>
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm wrestling with.....
>>> This is a direct quote from the G3X installation manual and from this t
ext,
>>> it leads me to believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire
and
>>> it would read the charge or discharge rates of that battery. Am I miss
ing
>>> something?
>>>
>>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed inline in the
>>> alternator output (=9CB=9D terminal). */A battery amme
ter shunt should
>>>
>>> be installed between the battery positive terminal and the battery
>>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the alternator or
>>>
>>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it is typically
>>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near where the
>>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate the firewall.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> You really only have two choices. Either between Alternator and
>>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter tells you what
>>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter relay because it
>>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt is intended
>>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for over 100
>>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2 and #3
>>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably will be your
>>> choice.
>>>
>>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>>
>>> Good feedback so far.
>>>
>>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline and handles the
>>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin suggests)
>>>
>>> What do you actually see on your digital readouts? Do you see
>>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or so inflight?
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to understand the difference between what
>>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs monitoring a
>>> load at the buss input.
>>>
>>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts coming pleas
e.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> wrote:
>>>
>>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If it goes more
>>> than a
>>> couple of amps negative with the engine running, then you
>>> have
>>> problems. Also, right after start you will see 25+ amps
>>> positive
>>> which is a great indication that your alternator is
>>> working well
>>> enough to recharge your battery while powering the bus.
>>> Knowing
>>> what the bus is drawing is good for load shedding, but
>>> that's all.
>>> The one from the alternator is good too, so you will know
>>> if it
>>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>>
>>> The battery info is my favorite and most informative one.
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint
>>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>>> >
>>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>>> C: 352-427-0285 >> >
>>> O: 352-465-4545 >> >
>>> F: 815-377-3694 >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> wrote:
>>>
>>> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it
>>> seems like
>>> there are 3 different electrical locations for it.
>>>
>>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of
>>> the ALT).
>>>
>>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on
>>> the battery;
>>> but it misses the contributions of electrons coming
>>> from the ALT
>>> to the main buss.)
>>>
>>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>>>
>>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and
>>> Battery can
>>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring
>>> them
>>> before they enter the buss as they're consumed. Then
>>> I'm getting
>>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>>
>>>
>>> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like
>>> option 3
>>> but want to make sure I'm not missing something. I'm al
so
>>> curious to know where yours is installed? I'm thinking
>>> of putting
>>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I can yank a
>>> G3X screen
>>> and access it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ======================
=============
>>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Li
st
>>> ======================
=============
>>> FORUMS -
>>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ======================
=============
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ======================
=============
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>>
>> ========================
===========
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ========================
===========
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ========================
===========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ========================
===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 08/30/14
>
>
> *
>
===========
onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage |
| From: | Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Oh bugger!
Warm regards
Patrick
> On 29 Aug 2014, at 20:16, Rodger Todd wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> If you haven't seen this on Vansairforce.net I strongly suggest you read h
ttp://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=116171
>
> What Dave Brown has reported is greatly worrying.
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Rodger
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
Yes, that is what you want. One more failure state to an alternator that
wasn't mentioned, is the failure of one or two diodes. That will result
in an alternator that will produce 10-20 amps, but no more. You would
see it as a small discharge on your battery, and not going to 25+ amps
right after start as it should. (similar to loose and slipping belt
results) Otherwise, you will have full alt output or no output in most
cases.
On 8/30/2014 7:20 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> I think I just sorted it out in my head. I was thinking that the #8
> B-Lead, #2 Battery, *and #8 Buss feed wires* would all bind at the
> battery-side post of the starter solenoid. This would mean I have a
> single feed to the 'real' buss bar.
It also means you are are seeing the entire system except for the
starter draw, and will know whether the battery is being charged or
discharged.
>
> I'm now 99% sure that's not the case. I need to look at it closer,
> but I believe I've got a connection for the B-Lead on one end of the
> buss and on the other end of the buss I have a battery connection.
> That makes perfect sense when someone says to put it "in the battery
> lead".
>
> I won't be back at the hangar until Tuesday, but I'm pretty sure I
> just figured it out. Sometimes I'm dense!
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Linn Walters > wrote:
>
> Knowing which piece draws X amps is a good exercise, but what do
> you do with the data? With modern equipment the load is
> comparatively small and with the transponder and strobes off a
> good battery should outlast your fuel supply.
>
> Alternator states are typically good charge (depending on battery
> level) or no charge. A slipping belt will be in-between.
> Batteries are more insidious .... they fail slowly at first and
> then gather steam towards useless. A good battery health indicator
> is the battery voltage just before start ..... how much did it
> lose since you last flew? I have a desulfator trickle charger
> that I hook up after each flight so my 'settling time' is rather
> short.
> IMHO, of course!
> Linn
>
>
> On 8/30/2014 9:42 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> I dug my Aeroelectric book out of one of our moving boxes and
>> I'll try to read it with a cup of coffee in the morning.
>>
>> I'm mostly interested in understanding charge or discharge rates.
>> I can build a reference load chart (by running on battery only
>> during a test session) to determine exactly what each piece of
>> equipment pulls and how I might be able to shed load if needed.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Kelly McMullen
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> I suppose there might be some aircraft with battery on the
>> firewall where you might do that, but it makes no sense.
>> What information are you going to get by having the shunt at
>> the battery? So you have a shunt that can handle the current,
>> it will have less resolution of low current movement. (all
>> shunts are designed for 0-50mv, where 50 mv equals full
>> scale). The only current you see at the battery besides what
>> goes to the buss is the starter and anything else that you
>> bypass the buss for some reason.
>> You really don't want to be splicing #2 or #4 wire to install
>> a shunt. #8 from starter relay to the buss will tell you all
>> the information you want.
>> I don't have a clue why Garmin wrote that. I'm not aware of
>> any certified aircraft that do it that way.
>>
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 5:32 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure that's true and it's part of what I'm
>> wrestling with..... This is a direct quote from the G3X
>> installation manual and from this text, it leads me to
>> believe that it could be placed anywhere in the #2 wire
>> and it would read the charge or discharge rates of that
>> battery. Am I missing something?
>>
>> An alternator ammeter shunt should be installed
>> inline in the
>> alternator output (B terminal). */A battery ammeter
>> shunt should
>>
>> be installed between the battery positive terminal
>> and the battery
>> contactor./* Depending on the location of the
>> alternator or
>>
>> battery relative to its supported electrical bus, it
>> is typically
>> desirable to install the shunt on the firewall near
>> where the
>> alternator or battery output would normally penetrate
>> the firewall.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kelly McMullen
>>
>> > >> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> You really only have two choices. Either between
>> Alternator and
>> buss, or between starter relay and buss. The latter
>> tells you what
>> you expect, positive charge or discharge. You would have
>> difficulty connecting between battery and starter
>> relay because it
>> is #4 wire, requiring bigger terminals than the shunt
>> is intended
>> to take, and I don't think any shunt is designed for
>> over 100
>> amps, while starter pulls 2-3 times that. So your #2
>> and #3
>> necessarily have to be the same place and probably
>> will be your
>> choice.
>>
>> On 8/30/2014 8:33 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> Good feedback so far.
>>
>> Jessie, on your position, I assume it's inline
>> and handles the
>> start without any issue. (That's where Garmin
>> suggests)
>>
>> What do you actually see on your digital
>> readouts? Do you see
>> 0 Amps on a charged battery and typically -1 or
>> so inflight?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the difference
>> between what
>> would be seen monitoring a batteries charge vs
>> monitoring a
>> load at the buss input.
>>
>> Very helpful stuff everyone.... Keep the thoughts
>> coming please.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jesse Saint
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>> > >>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to know what my battery is doing. If
>> it goes more
>> than a
>> couple of amps negative with the engine
>> running, then you have
>> problems. Also, right after start you will
>> see 25+ amps
>> positive
>> which is a great indication that your
>> alternator is
>> working well
>> enough to recharge your battery while
>> powering the bus.
>> Knowing
>> what the bus is drawing is good for load
>> shedding, but
>> that's all.
>> The one from the alternator is good too, so
>> you will know
>> if it
>> isn't putting out amperage.
>>
>> The battery info is my favorite and most
>> informative one.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>> >
>> > > >>
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>> <http://www.itecusa.org>
>>
>> www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> > >
>> >>
>> O: 352-465-4545
>> > >
>> >>
>> F: 815-377-3694
>> > >
>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Phillip Perry
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > >>> wrote:
>>
>> Last night I was thinking about shunt
>> locations and it
>> seems like
>> there are 3 different electrical
>> locations for it.
>>
>> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure
>> the output of
>> the ALT).
>>
>> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure
>> the load on
>> the battery;
>> but it misses the contributions of
>> electrons coming
>> from the ALT
>> to the main buss.)
>>
>> Location 3 seems to be the most logical
>> spot for me.
>>
>> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So
>> the ALT and
>> Battery can
>> be sending electrons to the buss and I'll
>> be measuring
>> them
>> before they enter the buss as they're
>> consumed. Then
>> I'm getting
>> a measurement of true load (minus the start).
>>
>>
>> Where have most of you installed yours?
>> I really like
>> option 3
>> but want to make sure I'm not missing
>> something. I'm also
>> curious to know where yours is installed?
>> I'm thinking
>> of putting
>> it on the aft side of the sub panel, so I
>> can yank a
>> G3X screen
>> and access it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>>
>> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> 08/30/14
>>
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage |
Inspected mine today, more as an exercise in determining how much effort
it will take to install the doubler. Did see there was a little
interference between top shock disk and the rear tubes, so that will get
eliminated before I reassemble. I just used engine hoist to lift nose
after I had compressed disks by jacking under tail tiedown, removed
retaining bolt, then removed jack to allow tail to go down.
Not a lot of work, could have waited to first condition inspection, but
I decided I wanted to get the doubler before any problem shows up, as I
sure wouldn't want to have to remove the engine mount to have it weld
repaired.
On 8/30/2014 8:26 PM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
> Oh bugger!
>
> Warm regards
>
> Patrick
>
> On 29 Aug 2014, at 20:16, Rodger Todd > wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> If you haven't seen this on Vansairforce.net
>> <http://Vansairforce.net> I strongly suggest you read
>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=116171
>>
>> What Dave Brown has reported is greatly worrying.
>>
>> Best wishes to all,
>>
>> Rodger
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com> |
I have three hall effect current sensors on my GRT. Main Bat feed , Aux Bat feed
and Alt feed. A toggle can be switched between the Bat and Alt sensors. Does
Garmin not work with the hall effect type sensors?
--------
Wayne G.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429669#429669
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
The toggle switch on a pair of hall effect sensors is a good idea
The Garmin does work with them but I already own a pair of shunts. And at
this point in the project, I'll take advantage of the stuff I own and try
to keep from spending any more money than I have to.
Phil
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 11:32 PM, rv10flyer
wrote:
>
> I have three hall effect current sensors on my GRT. Main Bat feed , Aux
> Bat feed and Alt feed. A toggle can be switched between the Bat and Alt
> sensors. Does Garmin not work with the hall effect type sensors?
>
> --------
> Wayne G.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429669#429669
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
| From: | "Barry" <blmarzaa(at)gmail.com> |
Two thoughts
1. With the WD-1001K-MOD doubler installed it looks like there will be more clearence
so the metal plates of the elastomers may clear the support tubes
2. With the added thickness of the doubler, you may need fewer U-1002 washers to
take up the slack. I wonder if three washers will still be the max allowed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429679#429679
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
So put one shunt on the alternator B+ line and one one the starter relay to
buss line and you will know both what the battery is providing and what the
alternator is providing.
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> The toggle switch on a pair of hall effect sensors is a good idea
>
> The Garmin does work with them but I already own a pair of shunts. And at
> this point in the project, I'll take advantage of the stuff I own and try
> to keep from spending any more money than I have to.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 11:32 PM, rv10flyer
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have three hall effect current sensors on my GRT. Main Bat feed , Aux
>> Bat feed and Alt feed. A toggle can be switched between the Bat and Alt
>> sensors. Does Garmin not work with the hall effect type sensors?
>>
>> --------
>> Wayne G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429669#429669
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Interesting points. I looked at whether I would need an additional washer
as my nose gear and engine have been mounted for more than a year. So far
it is fine with the original one washer, and the double will add more
compression. My -10 has been in my Aridzona uncooled hangar all of its life.
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Barry wrote:
>
> Two thoughts
>
> 1. With the WD-1001K-MOD doubler installed it looks like there will be
> more clearence so the metal plates of the elastomers may clear the support
> tubes
>
> 2. With the added thickness of the doubler, you may need fewer U-1002
> washers to take up the slack. I wonder if three washers will still be the
> max allowed
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429679#429679
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DLM" <dlm34077(at)cox.net> |
How many aircraft have cracks?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net> |
You are over thing it. The shunt should always be place on the output lead of
the alternator. The aircraft does not run on the battery, it derives it's power
from the alternator. The only time the battery is used in the aircraft, or
an automobile for that manner, is when you start the engine, or if the alternator
fails. The bus voltage can be used to trigger the g3x to provide you a warning
and also a status if the alternator fails. I. Addition, the plane power
alternators have a separate lead that you can hook up to an indicator light
on the panel to indicate an alternator failure.
In summary, you should be monitoring the current being drawn from the alternator,
and set up the G3x to alarm you during overcurrent and under current situations.
You should also set up a voltage level alarm for over voltage and under
voltage on both your primary and secondary battery. In addition, you should
have a load shed plan in case of the alternator failure. Use this plane to de-power
the high current unnecessary items on the bus.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429687#429687
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Just checked Wes=99s N620EB an hour ago. No cracks, some normal
wear, top metal part of top doughnut is bent where it hits the aft
braces. 5+ yrs. flying, a couple of pretty hard nose landings, not many
grass landings. REALLY appreciate the catch.
Later, =93 Lew
From: DLM
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 10:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: SB
How many aircraft have cracks?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
I was thinking exactly the same things. I think you're right.
Tim
> On Aug 31, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "Barry" wrote:
>
>
> Two thoughts
>
> 1. With the WD-1001K-MOD doubler installed it looks like there will be more clearence
so the metal plates of the elastomers may clear the support tubes
>
> 2. With the added thickness of the doubler, you may need fewer U-1002 washers
to take up the slack. I wonder if three washers will still be the max allowed
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429679#429679
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
Wiring the traditional way of consumptive drain on the battery still gives a lot
of info options.
With everything running, the meter will still spike with new items energized as
a back up indication that the wizzie is getting power.
You can also get the draw of individual items by checking them with the ALT off.
That is nice to be able to check and note during construction or adding new
items. (I used a ground power plug during construction).
Obviously that is usually done on the ground with the engine not running, but it
doesn't have to be. I know there is controversy about turning the alt off with
the engine running, but Socata used to have just such a check as part of the
run up. If you need to know the total draw on the ALT, turning it off (after
batt has been start replenished).
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429698#429698
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
This is a perfect discussion for the aeroelectric list I'm sure Bob has some
insight.
I have CC'd the aeroelectric list email address
Justin
On Aug 30, 2014, at 6:47, Phillip Perry wrote:
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there ar
e 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it mi
sses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>
> Location 3 seems to be the most logical spot for me.
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be sendin
g electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the bus
s as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus t
he start).
>
>
> Where have most of you installed yours? I really like option 3 but want t
o make sure I'm not missing something. I'm also curious to know where yours
is installed? I'm thinking of putting it on the aft side of the sub panel, s
o I can yank a G3X screen and access it.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt - Location |
| From: | Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com> |
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Date: August 31, 2014, 16:48:24 AKDT
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV10-List: Shunt - Location
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2014, at 6:47, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Last night I was thinking about shunt locations and it seems like there ar
e 3 different electrical locations for it.
>
> 1) Connected in the B-Lead (to measure the output of the ALT).
>
> If you're going to measure current anywhere, this is the
> FIRST choice . . . I will elaborate later . . .
>
> 2) Connected to the battery (to measure the load on the battery; but it mi
sses the contributions of electrons coming from the ALT to the main buss.)
>
> This is how it was done on cars and some airplanes for
> decades. Useful ONLY to the individual who KNOWS about
> how a battery behaves with a lot of electro-whizzies
> wrapped around it. Good diagnostic tool but it requires
> attention, memory (monitoring of trends) and an understanding
> of battery physics. I don't recommend it.
>
>
> 3) Immediately before the main buss. So the ALT and Battery can be sendin
g electrons to the buss and I'll be measuring them before they enter the bus
s as they're consumed. Then I'm getting a measurement of true load (minus t
he start).
>
> But you KNOW what that number is . . . right? This is
> the FIRST task for crafting an electrical system is to
> list everything that needs power, separate to appropriate
> bus, tabulate the total bus energy needed under various
> flight configurations. It's called a Load Analysis and
> EVERY TC aircraft is blessed with one.
>
> You won't find an ammeter in series with any bus structure
> on a biz jet . . . ammeters monitor generator loads.
>
> The PRIMARY electrical system monitor is active notification
> of LOW VOLTS. When the light comes on, you look to see if
> the alternator is putting out ANYTHING . . . MAYBE it has
> popped a diode and is still putting out some energy but
> at a reduced rate. You have the option of reducing load
> until the light goes out.
>
> Are we talking actual SHUNTS or Hall-Effect Current Sensors.
> If the latter, one sensor can be used to monitor the output
> of both alternators in a dual system like Z-12 or Z-13/8
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/kgg8nva
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ag46m2f
>
>
> Check out any of the architecture figures at
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5wxzn7
>
>
> You will not find an ammeter shunt anywhere except on
> the alternator B-leads . . .
>
>
> Your NUMBER ONE tool for dealing with electrical system
> malfunction is active notification of low voltage. Your
> response to that event should be . . . at most . . .
> the repositioning of a couple of switches whereupon you
> assume Plan-B for getting comfortably on the ground.
>
>
> If your Plan-B calls for reading displays, flipping
> switches, pushing/pulling breakers, fiddling with
> fuses and/or WONDERING how long the battery is going
> to last . . . then you blew it before your airplane's
> first flight.
>
>
>
> For the most part, an ammeter is useful for figuring
> things out AFTER you get back on the ground. Not having
> one available in flight should NOT be a matter of concern.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leaking Tank Blues |
| From: | Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com> |
"now that my wings are off for paint"
How'd it go removing the wings? I've always thought that would be an
enormous pain.
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I would have thought the gas would be greener on the other side of the
> border. 8^)
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:23 PM, kearney wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> For the past year or so I have been fighting a weeping tank rivet on the
>> top my QB tanks. I tried loctite but that didn't work at all.
>>
>> Anyway, now that my wings are off for paint, I tried introducing proseal
>> through the fuel sender hole.
>>
>> After some discussion with a local A&P, I decided to drill out the rivet
>> and replace it with a Cherry Max. Fortunately the wing was inverted on a
>> table so I was able to use a vaccuum to draw out most chips as I drilled
>> out the rivet. Next I opened the hole and hand countersunk it.
>>
>> My concerns were that there would be a few small chips inside the tank as
>> well the rivet might not completely seal even when coated in proseal. To
>> deal with this, I introduced a couple of a small amount of proseal into the
>> hole with a small syringe. I then installed a cherry max rivet that was
>> completely coated in proseal.
>>
>> A quick check today indicates the leak is gone!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429620#429620
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> ">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leaking Tank Blues |
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Rob
Not so much. I used a mallet to ease the bolts out and a couple of lifts to t
ake most of the weight off the wings.
It was not much more difficult than putting them on. I had quick disconnects
for wiring in the wing root so that was trivial. Likewise for the Pitot sta
tic lines.
That being said, I wouldn't want to do it too often.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 31, 2014, at 9:22 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
>
> "now that my wings are off for paint"
>
> How'd it go removing the wings? I've always thought that would be an enor
mous pain.
>
>
>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote
:
>> I would have thought the gas would be greener on the other side of the bo
rder. 8^)
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 7:23 PM, kearney wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> For the past year or so I have been fighting a weeping tank rivet on the
top my QB tanks. I tried loctite but that didn't work at all.
>>>
>>> Anyway, now that my wings are off for paint, I tried introducing proseal
through the fuel sender hole.
>>>
>>> After some discussion with a local A&P, I decided to drill out the rivet
and replace it with a Cherry Max. Fortunately the wing was inverted on a ta
ble so I was able to use a vaccuum to draw out most chips as I drilled out t
he rivet. Next I opened the hole and hand countersunk it.
>>>
>>> My concerns were that there would be a few small chips inside the tank a
s well the rivet might not completely seal even when coated in proseal. To d
eal with this, I introduced a couple of a small amount of proseal into the h
ole with a small syringe. I then installed a cherry max rivet that was compl
etely coated in proseal.
>>>
>>> A quick check today indicates the leak is gone!
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Les
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429620#429620
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> ">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 Flying since March 2011
> Woodinville, WA
> http://kochman.net/N819K
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Paint Quantity |
| From: | "fdombroski" <f.dombroski(at)yahoo.com> |
I am ordering paint for the RV-10. Does anyone that used PPG Deltron 2000 know
the paint quantity required for the base color and clear coat?
Also the quantity of Epoxy Primer needed?
Many Thanks,
Frank
--------
Frank Dombroski
RV-10 2.0 N46VT soon to be flying
KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429872#429872
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Paint Quantity |
I really can't answer the question because I'm just getting ready to
paint the fuselage. I bought a gallon of Grey primer and a gallon of
white from Sherwin Williams Auto Paint. I can buy more as I need it.
I do not want to do base/clear coat ..... I look at all the cars with
peeling clear coat and think "If the best experienced paint shops can't
paint clear coat without it peeling .... what chance do I have of
getting it right???"
Linn
On 9/2/2014 5:43 PM, fdombroski wrote:
>
> I am ordering paint for the RV-10. Does anyone that used PPG Deltron 2000 know
the paint quantity required for the base color and clear coat?
>
> Also the quantity of Epoxy Primer needed?
>
> Many Thanks,
> Frank
>
> --------
> Frank Dombroski
> RV-10 2.0 N46VT soon to be flying
> KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429872#429872
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Paint Quantity |
PPG base/clear coat is very high quality and forgiving to the amateur
painter (like me). I did two planes with this and will do the next one the
same. The first plane is now 10 years after painting and still looks like
the day it came out of the paint booth.
For the RV-10, start with a gallon of PPG DP-40LF primer but you will most
likely need another two quarts. Assuming you will do a primary, secondary
and then some accents in another color, start with a gallon of primary
color, two or three quarts of secondary and one quart of the accent color
(get more as needed). You will need two gallons of clear. You will need
about four gallons of PPG reducer (get the right one for the temperature
that you will be painting). Plan on ~$2500 for materials. I am just 4
miles from a PPG distributor. If you have to order and such then get more
to start.
Use PPG Alumi Prep with ScotchBrite pads, one good coat of primer, two coats
of color, two coats of clear. If you are using a tri coat (like a lot of
metallic reds or pearl yellows) do two coats of base, two coats of pearl (or
candy) and then two coats of clear. Follow the times listed with the
product for flash, recoat, tape and top coat exactly.
Paint with the wings, empennage, ailerons, flaps, doors and cowl off. The
RV-10 is so big your arm will get tired so be prepared. Paint the wings
first as they are the easiest so you get the hang of it. Prep, prime, color
and top coat the wings in one weekend, the cowl and doors the next, then
empennage and control surfaces, and the fuselage last (the hardest part as
it is so big and you get to spend a lot of time on your back).
Attached is a homemade air/water separator that did a very nice job for me.
Note the water drain valve. Fill the tub with water and ice.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fdombroski
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Paint Quantity
I am ordering paint for the RV-10. Does anyone that used PPG Deltron 2000
know the paint quantity required for the base color and clear coat?
Also the quantity of Epoxy Primer needed?
Many Thanks,
Frank
--------
Frank Dombroski
RV-10 2.0 N46VT soon to be flying
KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429872#429872
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Paint Quantity |
Thanks for the data Carl!
More questions on the water separator ...... which is air in and out?
Describe the stuff at the bottom of the vertical pipe .... and the drain
valve ... that's hidden by the tub.
Linn
On 9/2/2014 9:38 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> PPG base/clear coat is very high quality and forgiving to the amateur
> painter (like me). I did two planes with this and will do the next one the
> same. The first plane is now 10 years after painting and still looks like
> the day it came out of the paint booth.
>
> For the RV-10, start with a gallon of PPG DP-40LF primer but you will most
> likely need another two quarts. Assuming you will do a primary, secondary
> and then some accents in another color, start with a gallon of primary
> color, two or three quarts of secondary and one quart of the accent color
> (get more as needed). You will need two gallons of clear. You will need
> about four gallons of PPG reducer (get the right one for the temperature
> that you will be painting). Plan on ~$2500 for materials. I am just 4
> miles from a PPG distributor. If you have to order and such then get more
> to start.
>
> Use PPG Alumi Prep with ScotchBrite pads, one good coat of primer, two coats
> of color, two coats of clear. If you are using a tri coat (like a lot of
> metallic reds or pearl yellows) do two coats of base, two coats of pearl (or
> candy) and then two coats of clear. Follow the times listed with the
> product for flash, recoat, tape and top coat exactly.
>
> Paint with the wings, empennage, ailerons, flaps, doors and cowl off. The
> RV-10 is so big your arm will get tired so be prepared. Paint the wings
> first as they are the easiest so you get the hang of it. Prep, prime, color
> and top coat the wings in one weekend, the cowl and doors the next, then
> empennage and control surfaces, and the fuselage last (the hardest part as
> it is so big and you get to spend a lot of time on your back).
>
> Attached is a homemade air/water separator that did a very nice job for me.
> Note the water drain valve. Fill the tub with water and ice.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fdombroski
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:43 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Paint Quantity
>
>
> I am ordering paint for the RV-10. Does anyone that used PPG Deltron 2000
> know the paint quantity required for the base color and clear coat?
>
> Also the quantity of Epoxy Primer needed?
>
> Many Thanks,
> Frank
>
> --------
> Frank Dombroski
> RV-10 2.0 N46VT soon to be flying
> KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429872#429872
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aero Composites |
| From: | "chazking" <airplane-lists(at)hotmail.com> |
Weighed the ACS and it's 52.2# with McCauley 4" hub (same size as Hartzell). Hartzell
support told me their 2 blade is 52#. No difference between the two, weigh-wise.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429892#429892
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Paint Quantity |
Linn,
There are a lot of ways to do this. This example uses a coil of 3/8=94
aluminum tubing from Aircraft Spruce and some standard fittings. The
coil
shape is maintained by three pieces of wood and tie wraps. The air goes
in
at the top (red hose). The coil ends at a PVC =93T=94 fitting. The
opposite
side of the =93T=94 fitting connects via PVC fittings, out a hole in the
side of
the tub and to the brass drain valve. The top of the =93T=94 fitting
goes up
out of the water where you see the yellow air out hose connected. I
also
ran the out hose 6 feet or so vertically so any condensed but still
entrained water would drain back down into the PVC pipe. I blew the
water
out of the tub every hour or so. I made some ice blocks from gallon
milk
jugs and floated about four of them in the water while painting. When
not
in use empty the tube as the aluminum coil will corrode if left in
water.
This water separator was the third in line from my compressor. The
first is
a 10=92 up run of =BD=94 copper pipe, then a standard air filter, then
this.
Without this finally water separator I got water at the paint gun. With
it
I was always dry.
Have fun. After painting an RV-10 you will find out why commercial
paint
shops get so much money for a paint job.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Paint Quantity
Thanks for the data Carl!
More questions on the water separator ...... which is air in and out?
Describe the stuff at the bottom of the vertical pipe .... and the drain
valve ... that's hidden by the tub.
Linn
On 9/2/2014 9:38 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
PPG base/clear coat is very high quality and forgiving to the amateur
painter (like me). I did two planes with this and will do the next one
the
same. The first plane is now 10 years after painting and still looks
like
the day it came out of the paint booth.
For the RV-10, start with a gallon of PPG DP-40LF primer but you will
most
likely need another two quarts. Assuming you will do a primary,
secondary
and then some accents in another color, start with a gallon of primary
color, two or three quarts of secondary and one quart of the accent
color
(get more as needed). You will need two gallons of clear. You will
need
about four gallons of PPG reducer (get the right one for the temperature
that you will be painting). Plan on ~$2500 for materials. I am just 4
miles from a PPG distributor. If you have to order and such then get
more
to start.
Use PPG Alumi Prep with ScotchBrite pads, one good coat of primer, two
coats
of color, two coats of clear. If you are using a tri coat (like a lot
of
metallic reds or pearl yellows) do two coats of base, two coats of pearl
(or
candy) and then two coats of clear. Follow the times listed with the
product for flash, recoat, tape and top coat exactly.
Paint with the wings, empennage, ailerons, flaps, doors and cowl off.
The
RV-10 is so big your arm will get tired so be prepared. Paint the wings
first as they are the easiest so you get the hang of it. Prep, prime,
color
and top coat the wings in one weekend, the cowl and doors the next, then
empennage and control surfaces, and the fuselage last (the hardest part
as
it is so big and you get to spend a lot of time on your back).
Attached is a homemade air/water separator that did a very nice job for
me.
Note the water drain valve. Fill the tub with water and ice.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fdombroski
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Paint Quantity
I am ordering paint for the RV-10. Does anyone that used PPG Deltron
2000
know the paint quantity required for the base color and clear coat?
Also the quantity of Epoxy Primer needed?
Many Thanks,
Frank
--------
Frank Dombroski
RV-10 2.0 N46VT soon to be flying
KSMQ Somerset Airport NJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429872#429872
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
On 29.08.2014 21:23, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> ........
> glue or JB weld or something would be warranted to keep that
> plate from spinning.
>
> I guess I'll know more after I have mine apart and see which
> fix I need to perform.
>
Hi Tim,
what is the outcome of your investigation? And did you talk with Van's
about "glueing" the new plate to the mount?
Cheers Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
Hi,
I posted it that same day. The Van's tech team
guys were just talking about it when I called.
They agree that it should probably be
prevented from moving. Either by welding it
along the edge, or by proseal or similar to
bond it in place.
Tim
On 9/3/2014 9:05 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
> On 29.08.2014 21:23, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> ........
>> glue or JB weld or something would be warranted to keep that
>> plate from spinning.
>>
>> I guess I'll know more after I have mine apart and see which
>> fix I need to perform.
>>
> Hi Tim,
>
> what is the outcome of your investigation? And did you talk with Van's
> about "glueing" the new plate to the mount?
>
> Cheers Werner
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
Data point.... 180 hours exclusively off of grass. No cracks.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 3, 2014, at 10:05 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 29.08.2014 21:23, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> ........
>> glue or JB weld or something would be warranted to keep that
>> plate from spinning.
>>
>> I guess I'll know more after I have mine apart and see which
>> fix I need to perform.
> Hi Tim,
>
> what is the outcome of your investigation? And did you talk with Van's about
"glueing" the new plate to the mount?
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
Thanks for the update on that Tim, I've not seen that posting strange
but I know now.
I guess there will then be an SB update on that.
Cheers Werner
On 03.09.2014 16:46, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I posted it that same day. The Van's tech team
> ..........
>
> Tim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Hello Werner
If you decide to order the parts for this SB, count with1 set for me.
Regards
Carlos
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Werner
Schneider
Enviada: 3 de setembro de 2014 16:27
Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: Re: RV10-List: SB 2014-08-29
glastar(at)gmx.net>
Thanks for the update on that Tim, I've not seen that posting strange
but I know now.
I guess there will then be an SB update on that.
Cheers Werner
On 03.09.2014 16:46, Tim Olson wrote:
Tim(at)myrv10.com>
>
> Hi,
> I posted it that same day. The Van's tech team ..........
>
> Tim
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SB 2014-08-29 |
I sent email request to Van's support late Friday and had reply
yesterday morning. Parts are being supplied free.
Just contact them with your builder number.
On 9/3/2014 8:45 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Hello Werner
>
> If you decide to order the parts for this SB, count with1 set for me.
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Werner Schneider
> Enviada: 3 de setembro de 2014 16:27
> Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Assunto: Re: RV10-List: SB 2014-08-29
>
> >
>
> Thanks for the update on that Tim, I've not seen that posting strange
> but I know now.
>
> I guess there will then be an SB update on that.
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 03.09.2014 16:46, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I posted it that same day. The Van's tech team ..........
>
> >
>
> > Tim
>
> >
>
> >
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
I am experiencing a "knocking" which sounds kinda like metal on metal in
the top right lord mount when the engine is at full idle (~750 RPM) or
right at shutdown when the vibration is the most. I took the lord mount
off and inspected, but all looks right. Well, there does seem to be a
very minute amount of play with the lord mount inside the ears.
Took me a while to isolate it to the top right mount, but finally
arrived there with and extra pair of hands.
Has anyone experienced anything similar to this with their lord mounts?
Not sure what is actually causing the knocking sound.
One further note is that this knocking sound is not present at greater
than idle and the engine is very smooth otherwise.
Thanks,
-Sean #40303
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
| From: | Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com> |
Was it loose at all when you removed it? There should be an insert in there that
will rattle around when loose or cracked.
On Sep 3, 2014, at 16:26, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> I am experiencing a "knocking" which sounds kinda like metal on metal in the
top right lord mount when the engine is at full idle (~750 RPM) or right at shutdown
when the vibration is the most. I took the lord mount off and inspected,
but all looks right. Well, there does seem to be a very minute amount of play
with the lord mount inside the ears.
>
> Took me a while to isolate it to the top right mount, but finally arrived there
with and extra pair of hands.
>
> Has anyone experienced anything similar to this with their lord mounts? Not
sure what is actually causing the knocking sound.
>
> One further note is that this knocking sound is not present at greater than idle
and the engine is very smooth otherwise.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Sean #40303
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
I'd try a stethoscope with a long probe on it to isolate it first. They
work very well with knocks and cost less than 10 bucks usually. You can
find them in just about any parts store, sears, or harbor freight.
You certainly want to know that it's not a lifter knocking with low oil
pressure (idle or shutdown). But I'd isolate it for sure so I know 100%
where it's coming from.
Phil
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Justin Jones
wrote:
>
> Was it loose at all when you removed it? There should be an insert in
> there that will rattle around when loose or cracked.
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2014, at 16:26, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> >
> > I am experiencing a "knocking" which sounds kinda like metal on metal in
> the top right lord mount when the engine is at full idle (~750 RPM) or
> right at shutdown when the vibration is the most. I took the lord mount
> off and inspected, but all looks right. Well, there does seem to be a very
> minute amount of play with the lord mount inside the ears.
> >
> > Took me a while to isolate it to the top right mount, but finally
> arrived there with and extra pair of hands.
> >
> > Has anyone experienced anything similar to this with their lord mounts?
> Not sure what is actually causing the knocking sound.
> >
> > One further note is that this knocking sound is not present at greater
> than idle and the engine is very smooth otherwise.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Sean #40303
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
Hi Sean, If the mounts are old and sagged, or the assembly is off center, additional
movement from shutdown vibration can cause the bolt sleeve to knock against
the inside bore of the mounts. That should be a metal on rubber contact, but
might cause the mount to tap on the bore in the ear giving a metal to metal
contact.
Good luck with the search.
Gordon
41015 Switzerland
On 04.09.2014, at 02:57, Justin Jones wrote:
>
> Was it loose at all when you removed it? There should be an insert in there that
will rattle around when loose or cracked.
>
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2014, at 16:26, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>>
>> I am experiencing a "knocking" which sounds kinda like metal on metal in the
top right lord mount when the engine is at full idle (~750 RPM) or right at shutdown
when the vibration is the most. I took the lord mount off and inspected,
but all looks right. Well, there does seem to be a very minute amount of
play with the lord mount inside the ears.
>>
>> Took me a while to isolate it to the top right mount, but finally arrived there
with and extra pair of hands.
>>
>> Has anyone experienced anything similar to this with their lord mounts? Not
sure what is actually causing the knocking sound.
>>
>> One further note is that this knocking sound is not present at greater than
idle and the engine is very smooth otherwise.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Sean #40303
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
I'll check the mount again. From page FF1-5 of the plans...
Gordon, the J-3804-20 spacer is supposed to float around inside the
J-3804-20 durometer, but may be contacting the inside wall of the
durometer? I'll check again to see if there are signs of that
happening. Another possibility that I just thought of is that if the
hole in the WD-1001 motor mount that the AN7-26 bolt passes through has
too much play, then the bolt itself could be rattling in there? The
bolt was torqued to ~40 ft. lbs. according to Section 5V.
The engine has been hung on the mounts for roughly a year and the engine
has about 50 tach hours on it, so hoping it is not because they are old.
-Sean
> Gordon
> September 4, 2014 at 12:55 AM
>
> Hi Sean, If the mounts are old and sagged, or the assembly is off
> center, additional movement from shutdown vibration can cause the bolt
> sleeve to knock against the inside bore of the mounts. That should be
> a metal on rubber contact, but might cause the mount to tap on the
> bore in the ear giving a metal to metal contact.
>
> Good luck with the search.
>
> Gordon
> 41015 Switzerland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flight_Time <lljjss22(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
I had the same problem early on. Found that the through bolt was not tightened/torqued
properly. Torqued the bolts on all four mounts and never had the problem
again.
Jearl Strickland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
Sean, not quite. The spacer and durometers should be clamped as a rigid stack to
the engine mount by the bolt if properly torqued. When the engine shakes the
durometers deform in shear, allowing the dynafocal engine mount boss to move
laterally. There should normally be enough clearance, but if the elastomers are
already deformed when static this clearance can be used up.
Another thought - perhaps the stack could be loose if the nut is torqued up onto
the runout of the bolt thread. I ran into this problem on one of my mounts and
added another washer under the nut to prevent it.
Gordon
On 04.09.2014, at 15:06, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> I'll check the mount again. From page FF1-5 of the plans...
>
> Gordon, the J-3804-20 spacer is supposed to float around inside the J-3804-20
durometer, but may be contacting the inside wall of the durometer? I'll check
again to see if there are signs of that happening. Another possibility that
I just thought of is that if the hole in the WD-1001 motor mount that the AN7-26
bolt passes through has too much play, then the bolt itself could be rattling
in there? The bolt was torqued to ~40 ft. lbs. according to Section 5V.
>
> The engine has been hung on the mounts for roughly a year and the engine has
about 50 tach hours on it, so hoping it is not because they are old.
>
> -Sean
>
>> Gordon
>> September 4, 2014 at 12:55 AM
>>
>> Hi Sean, If the mounts are old and sagged, or the assembly is off center, additional
movement from shutdown vibration can cause the bolt sleeve to knock against
the inside bore of the mounts. That should be a metal on rubber contact,
but might cause the mount to tap on the bore in the ear giving a metal to metal
contact.
>>
>> Good luck with the search.
>>
>> Gordon
>> 41015 Switzerland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knocking In Lord Mount at Idle |
Gordon, you are the man. It was indeed because the nut torqued on the
bolt thread runout. Added a washer and problem solved. No more knocking.
If we ever cross paths I owe you a cold one. Thanks!
-Sean
> Gordon
> September 4, 2014 at 1:44 PM
>
> Sean, not quite. The spacer and durometers should be clamped as a
> rigid stack to the engine mount by the bolt if properly torqued. When
> the engine shakes the durometers deform in shear, allowing the
> dynafocal engine mount boss to move laterally. There should normally
> be enough clearance, but if the elastomers are already deformed when
> static this clearance can be used up.
>
> Another thought - perhaps the stack could be loose if the nut is
> torqued up onto the runout of the bolt thread. I ran into this problem
> on one of my mounts and added another washer under the nut to prevent it.
>
> Gordon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | |