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August 11, 2017 - October 14, 2017

>>>> -------- >>>> Lenny Iszak >>>> Palm City, FL >>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471748#471748 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
I am up here working on it now and while safety wiring this thing, I might h ave found another possible source of fluctuation.... it escaped my eye unti l now. Photo attached. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > That could account for some of the fluctuation. Production planes > connect at the servo. I have to keep switching mind between factory > planes I've worked on and Van's somewhat different way of doing > things. > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > > >> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Phillip Perry wro te: >> Mine is installed like Vans plans suggest. Photo attached. >> >> Coming out of the pump there is a T. One leg goes forward to the servo. >> >> The other leg has a restrictor fitting and the hose goes on up to the fir ewall manifold where the pressure sensor is located. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 3:42 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hmm, restrictor's purpose is to prevent large flow if line fails, and fu el pressure line is usually connected to the fuel servo, on opposite side to the inlet screen. So the restrictor should be in between the fuel pressure l ine connection on the engine end of the line going to the fuel pressure send ing unit. Is your fuel pressure line connected to a fitting on the pump? You really want to know how much pressure is internal in the fuel servo, not at the pump. >>> >>>> On 8/11/2017 8:12 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>> Yes. Restrictor installed at the pump. >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 10:00 AM, Lenny Iszak w rote: >>>>> om> >>>>> >>>>> Do you have a flow restrictor in your fuel pressure sensor fitting? Th e engine driven pump puts out "heavier" pressure pulses than that electric o ne. The restrictor helps dampen those. Some EFISs average out the fluctuatio ns, some don't. >>>>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471748#471748 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> ========================= >> ========================= >> ========================= >> ========================= >> ========================= >>> >>> >>> >> > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
There you go...an air bubble up high by the sensor. That could be it! Tim > On Aug 11, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > I am up here working on it now and while safety wiring this thing, I might have found another possible source of fluctuation.... it escaped my eye until now. > > Photo attached. > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> That could account for some of the fluctuation. Production planes >> connect at the servo. I have to keep switching mind between factory >> planes I've worked on and Van's somewhat different way of doing >> things. >> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >> >> >>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> Mine is installed like Vans plans suggest. Photo attached. >>> >>> Coming out of the pump there is a T. One leg goes forward to the servo. >>> >>> The other leg has a restrictor fitting and the hose goes on up to the firewall manifold where the pressure sensor is located. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 3:42 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmm, restrictor's purpose is to prevent large flow if line fails, and fuel pressure line is usually connected to the fuel servo, on opposite side to the inlet screen. So the restrictor should be in between the fuel pressure line connection on the engine end of the line going to the fuel pressure sending unit. Is your fuel pressure line connected to a fitting on the pump? You really want to know how much pressure is internal in the fuel servo, not at the pump. >>>> >>>>> On 8/11/2017 8:12 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>> Yes. Restrictor installed at the pump. >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 10:00 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you have a flow restrictor in your fuel pressure sensor fitting? The engine driven pump puts out "heavier" pressure pulses than that electric one. The restrictor helps dampen those. Some EFISs average out the fluctuations, some don't. >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471748#471748 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> =========================>> =========================>> =========================>> =========================>> =========================>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
If that's it, and probably is, I'm not telling my wife...... If any of you tell my wife, I'm going to call you a liar. :) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2017, at 5:32 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > There you go...an air bubble up high by the sensor. That could be it! > Tim > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> I am up here working on it now and while safety wiring this thing, I might have found another possible source of fluctuation.... it escaped my eye until now. >> >> Photo attached. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>> >>> >>> That could account for some of the fluctuation. Production planes >>> connect at the servo. I have to keep switching mind between factory >>> planes I've worked on and Van's somewhat different way of doing >>> things. >>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>> Mine is installed like Vans plans suggest. Photo attached. >>>> >>>> Coming out of the pump there is a T. One leg goes forward to the servo. >>>> >>>> The other leg has a restrictor fitting and the hose goes on up to the firewall manifold where the pressure sensor is located. >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 3:42 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hmm, restrictor's purpose is to prevent large flow if line fails, and fuel pressure line is usually connected to the fuel servo, on opposite side to the inlet screen. So the restrictor should be in between the fuel pressure line connection on the engine end of the line going to the fuel pressure sending unit. Is your fuel pressure line connected to a fitting on the pump? You really want to know how much pressure is internal in the fuel servo, not at the pump. >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/11/2017 8:12 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>> Yes. Restrictor installed at the pump. >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 10:00 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you have a flow restrictor in your fuel pressure sensor fitting? The engine driven pump puts out "heavier" pressure pulses than that electric one. The restrictor helps dampen those. Some EFISs average out the fluctuations, some don't. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471748#471748 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> =========================>> =========================>> =========================>> =========================>> =========================>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> =================================== >> =================================== >> =================================== >> =================================== >> =================================== >>> >>> >>> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) -------- Lenny Iszak Palm City, FL 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: > > > The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) > > -------- > Lenny Iszak > Palm City, FL > 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. Tim > On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. > > 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. > > 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! > > I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. > > Phil > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >> >> >> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >> >> -------- >> Lenny Iszak >> Palm City, FL >> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
I wish I could offer a better report, but my data is very limited tonight. I no more than took off and the guy who is hangared behind me was coming in to land and reported a cabin fire in his Cheetah. So turned right back around and landed to help him. Turned out being an electrical fire and non-event other than the excitement. A couple of observations. 1) The fuel pressure has increase tremendously. I was seeing 33 PSI. The fluctuation was still there between 31 and 33. 2) The engine went from running like a sewing machine over the last 8 hours to running like a Model A. It's now got a stumble it that is pretty persistent. Thinking it might be related to the fuel pump, I turned the boost on..... No change. So I put it away for the night to read and think about the problem. Two things have changed 1) The pump and 2) the PSI. I suppose it's possible that some trash was in the new pump and found its way down stream... I'm thinking a full fuel system flush and injector inspection is in order. Anyone know if there are any screens in the AFP system that I need to open up and inspect? My enthusiasm for this thing has slipped from a 10 last night to a 2 tonight. Seems like a never ending chase. Phil On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes > across you. Never hurts to have spares. > Tim > > > On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > > > > I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. > > > > 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known > leak in the airplane. > > > > 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that > pump! > > > > I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot > more pressure than the original. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak > wrote: > >> > lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> > >> > >> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it > was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) > >> > >> -------- > >> Lenny Iszak > >> Palm City, FL > >> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. If not...sure, keep as spare. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. > Tim > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> >> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >> >> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >> >> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >> >> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>> >>> >>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>> >>> -------- >>> Lenny Iszak >>> Palm City, FL >>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll make a decision between selling it or shelving it. I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm not opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. > If not...sure, keep as spare. > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > > >> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. >> Tim >> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> >>> >>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>> >>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>> >>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >>> >>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Lenny Iszak >>>> Palm City, FL >>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: insurance
I know this has been covered extensively but I'm under a bit of a time crunc h. My insurance is up for renewal this week and the company I'm with has mad e me a bit uncomfortable. I'll hold off on details for now, but just wonderi ng what the latest recommendations are on who to go with. I'll well exceed a ny experience requirement needs in both model and total time. Thanks, Marcus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: insurance
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
I've been happy with Jenny and crew at Gallagher. Of course they're an agency not an insurance company. But I think you can trust their recommendations. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471776#471776 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2017
Subject: Re: insurance
That's what I was going to say exactly. Jenny never steers me wrong. Tim > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:21 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > I've been happy with Jenny and crew at Gallagher. Of course they're an agency not an insurance company. But I think you can trust their recommendations. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471776#471776 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: insurance
From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Thanks Bob and Tim, Ill give them a shout on Monday. Marcus On Aug 12, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Tim Olson wrote: That's what I was going to say exactly. Jenny never steers me wrong. Tim > On Aug 11, 2017, at 11:21 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > I've been happy with Jenny and crew at Gallagher. Of course they're an agency not an insurance company. But I think you can trust their recommendations. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471776#471776 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Repair product
Saw this recommendation on a spam can list: "GFlex 655: http://www.westsystem.com/specialty-epoxies/gflex-655-thickened-epoxy-adhesive/ Great product, easy to work with. Ive been using it for most everything that needs to be held together kayaks, boats, plane parts, etc. The price for a quart at a time isnt too brutal. And you can add pigment, glass powder, etc. to it. If one can just get the basic shape taped together it will work." Sounds like a useful product for us builders ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a proces s today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also th ought I'd check induction. Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if somethi ng might be going on with the servo. Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to b elieve this is happening in-flight. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll ma ke a decision between selling it or shelving it. > > I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm n ot opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. > > Phil > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. >> If not...sure, keep as spare. >> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >> >> >>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>> >>> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who com es across you. Never hurts to have spares. >>> Tim >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote : >>>> >>>> >>>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>>> >>>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>>> >>>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify tha t pump! >>>> >>>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wr ote: >>>>> om> >>>>> >>>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
I would suggest sending that photo and a description of your symptoms to AFP, including how it behaved before the pump change and after; -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: > Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a process today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also thought I'd check induction. > > Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if something might be going on with the servo. > > Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to believe this is happening in-flight. > > Phil > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll make a decision between selling it or shelving it. >> >> I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm not opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>> >>> >>> Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. >>> If not...sure, keep as spare. >>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>> >>>> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. >>>> Tim >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>>>> >>>>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>>>> >>>>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >>>>> >>>>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== >>> >>> >>> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
I did about 2 hours ago. We will see what he says. I'm guessing it's uncommon? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > I would suggest sending that photo and a description of your symptoms > to AFP, including how it behaved before the pump change and after; > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > > >> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a process today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also thought I'd check induction. >> >> Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if something might be going on with the servo. >> >> Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to believe this is happening in-flight. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> >>> The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll make a decision between selling it or shelving it. >>> >>> I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm not opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. >>>> If not...sure, keep as spare. >>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. >>>>> Tim >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >>>>>> >>>>>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> =================================== >> =================================== >> =================================== >> =================================== >> =================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Date: Aug 12, 2017
I do not have any in my fab. Just redid my air door today. 800 hours and not stains. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 11:23 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a process today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also thought I'd check induction. Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if something might be going on with the servo. Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to believe this is happening in-flight. Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
The thing that has me wondering is if the new pressure level is too high. I know that you can buy those pumps in higher pressure versions, which would imply that they are also made in lower pressure versions. I'm wondering which one your needs required. I watched my pressure today on a flight and it was generally 24-26psi. You said yours was over 30. I'm not sure how significant the difference is, but if the pressure was higher, I can at least comprehend that perhaps the additional pressure could cause fuel to be leaked out somewhere. Maybe that's where the blue stain came from and it's all recent? Anyway, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. And when you do, it will be educational for us all, so thank you very much for sharing. Tim > On Aug 12, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > I did about 2 hours ago. We will see what he says. > > I'm guessing it's uncommon? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> I would suggest sending that photo and a description of your symptoms >> to AFP, including how it behaved before the pump change and after; >> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >> >> >>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a process today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also thought I'd check induction. >>> >>> Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if something might be going on with the servo. >>> >>> Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to believe this is happening in-flight. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>> >>>> The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll make a decision between selling it or shelving it. >>>> >>>> I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm not opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. >>>>> If not...sure, keep as spare. >>>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. >>>>>> Tim >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> =================================== >>> =================================== >>> =================================== >>> =================================== >>> =================================== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
I had some fuel there prior to the fuel pump swap. I know that because the drain line had a blue tint. The low pressure pump runs 4-6 psi for carbureted engines. The model number on mine is the correct model number for the IO-540. I confirmed it from multiple online sources (Tempest, Lycoming, etc.). Also confirmed the correct model number stamped on the pump prior to installing. Frustrating...... While I'm waiting on AFP to get back to me with some ideas, I bought some fittings and a vacuum pump to draw a vacuum on various parts of the fuel system in search for a leak. I'd love to find a cracked flare or something like that and put this to bed. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > The thing that has me wondering is if the new pressure level is too high. I know that you can buy those pumps in higher pressure versions, which would imply that they are also made in lower pressure versions. I'm wondering which one your needs required. I watched my pressure today on a flight and it was generally 24-26psi. You said yours was over 30. I'm not sure how significant the difference is, but if the pressure was higher, I can at least comprehend that perhaps the additional pressure could cause fuel to be leaked out somewhere. Maybe that's where the blue stain came from and it's all recent? Anyway, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. And when you do, it will be educational for us all, so thank you very much for sharing. > Tim > >> On Aug 12, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> >> I did about 2 hours ago. We will see what he says. >> >> I'm guessing it's uncommon? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>> >>> >>> I would suggest sending that photo and a description of your symptoms >>> to AFP, including how it behaved before the pump change and after; >>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>> >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>> Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a process today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also thought I'd check induction. >>>> >>>> Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if something might be going on with the servo. >>>> >>>> Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to believe this is happening in-flight. >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll make a decision between selling it or shelving it. >>>>> >>>>> I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm not opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. >>>>>> If not...sure, keep as spare. >>>>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. >>>>>>> Tim >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> =================================== >>>> =================================== >>>> =================================== >>>> =================================== >>>> =================================== >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Also confirmed in AFP documentation that inlet pressures of 20-90 psi are good. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > I had some fuel there prior to the fuel pump swap. I know that because the drain line had a blue tint. > > The low pressure pump runs 4-6 psi for carbureted engines. > > The model number on mine is the correct model number for the IO-540. I confirmed it from multiple online sources (Tempest, Lycoming, etc.). Also confirmed the correct model number stamped on the pump prior to installing. > > Frustrating...... > > While I'm waiting on AFP to get back to me with some ideas, I bought some fittings and a vacuum pump to draw a vacuum on various parts of the fuel system in search for a leak. > > I'd love to find a cracked flare or something like that and put this to bed. > > Phil > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >> >> The thing that has me wondering is if the new pressure level is too high. I know that you can buy those pumps in higher pressure versions, which would imply that they are also made in lower pressure versions. I'm wondering which one your needs required. I watched my pressure today on a flight and it was generally 24-26psi. You said yours was over 30. I'm not sure how significant the difference is, but if the pressure was higher, I can at least comprehend that perhaps the additional pressure could cause fuel to be leaked out somewhere. Maybe that's where the blue stain came from and it's all recent? Anyway, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. And when you do, it will be educational for us all, so thank you very much for sharing. >> Tim >> >>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> >>> >>> I did about 2 hours ago. We will see what he says. >>> >>> I'm guessing it's uncommon? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I would suggest sending that photo and a description of your symptoms >>>> to AFP, including how it behaved before the pump change and after; >>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>> Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a process today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also thought I'd check induction. >>>>> >>>>> Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if something might be going on with the servo. >>>>> >>>>> Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to believe this is happening in-flight. >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll make a decision between selling it or shelving it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm not opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. >>>>>>> If not...sure, keep as spare. >>>>>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. >>>>>>>> Tim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Interesting...well above Lycoming's spec for the Precision RSA fuel injection unit...but that may be an area that APF "improved" over the certified product. I agree you have the correct part number which is used on most 4 and 6 cylinder fuel injected Lycomings. It is supposed to have an internal valve of some sort to limit the max pressure by bypassing some of the output back into the inlet. On 8/12/2017 4:17 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > Also confirmed in AFP documentation that inlet pressures of 20-90 psi are good. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> I had some fuel there prior to the fuel pump swap. I know that because the drain line had a blue tint. >> >> The low pressure pump runs 4-6 psi for carbureted engines. >> >> The model number on mine is the correct model number for the IO-540. I confirmed it from multiple online sources (Tempest, Lycoming, etc.). Also confirmed the correct model number stamped on the pump prior to installing. >> >> Frustrating...... >> >> While I'm waiting on AFP to get back to me with some ideas, I bought some fittings and a vacuum pump to draw a vacuum on various parts of the fuel system in search for a leak. >> >> I'd love to find a cracked flare or something like that and put this to bed. >> >> Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Belue <kdb.rv10(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
I always have a fuel stain in the FAB. I think it comes from priming the engine before starting and the excess fuel runs down the intake pipes into the FAB. It leaves a blue stain there; never had in trouble from it. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > I had some fuel there prior to the fuel pump swap. I know that because the drain line had a blue tint. > > The low pressure pump runs 4-6 psi for carbureted engines. > > The model number on mine is the correct model number for the IO-540. I confirmed it from multiple online sources (Tempest, Lycoming, etc.). Also confirmed the correct model number stamped on the pump prior to installing. > > Frustrating...... > > While I'm waiting on AFP to get back to me with some ideas, I bought some fittings and a vacuum pump to draw a vacuum on various parts of the fuel system in search for a leak. > > I'd love to find a cracked flare or something like that and put this to bed. > > Phil > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >> >> The thing that has me wondering is if the new pressure level is too high. I know that you can buy those pumps in higher pressure versions, which would imply that they are also made in lower pressure versions. I'm wondering which one your needs required. I watched my pressure today on a flight and it was generally 24-26psi. You said yours was over 30. I'm not sure how significant the difference is, but if the pressure was higher, I can at least comprehend that perhaps the additional pressure could cause fuel to be leaked out somewhere. Maybe that's where the blue stain came from and it's all recent? Anyway, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. And when you do, it will be educational for us all, so thank you very much for sharing. >> Tim >> >>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> >>> >>> I did about 2 hours ago. We will see what he says. >>> >>> I'm guessing it's uncommon? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I would suggest sending that photo and a description of your symptoms >>>> to AFP, including how it behaved before the pump change and after; >>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>> Still chasing this fluctuation and engine stumble down. I started a process today of vacuum checking fuel lines - still getting to that. But also thought I'd check induction. >>>>> >>>>> Is it common to have this much fuel stain in your FAB? Wondering if something might be going on with the servo. >>>>> >>>>> Blue stain is in the aft side of the filter and high up, which leads me to believe this is happening in-flight. >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The plan is to get it overhauled with fresh guts for sure. Then I'll make a decision between selling it or shelving it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am like Tim. I like having spares on the shelf to pull off. But I'm not opposed to selling it after I've had it overhauled and know it's good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unfortunately, usually a fuel pump purchase requires returning a core. >>>>>>> If not...sure, keep as spare. >>>>>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Look at it this way. It's an emergency spare for you or someone who comes across you. Never hurts to have spares. >>>>>>>> Tim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 7:04 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I know! I decided to fix both for two reasons. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1) There was a known leak and there's really no reason to leave a known leak in the airplane. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2) Because I will never know which fixed it and it helps me justify that pump! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do think my pump was under performing though. This new one has a lot more pressure than the original. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The problem is that if you fix that leak now you will never know if it was the pump or the leak causing the fluctuation :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>>> Lenny Iszak >>>>>>>>>> Palm City, FL >>>>>>>>>> 2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 300 hrs >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471766#471766 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>> =================================== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Phil, On the AFP fuel servo there is a filter screen on the input fitting. The attached photo is of the FM-200 on my rv-8. Bob Newman TCW Technologies, LLC 610-928-3420 > On Aug 12, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > Also confirmed in AFP documentation that inlet pressures of 20-90 psi are good. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> I had some fuel there prior to the fuel pump swap. I know that because the drain line had a blue tint. >> >> The low pressure pump runs 4-6 psi for carbureted engines. >> >> The model number on mine is the correct model number for the IO-540. I confirmed it from multiple online sources (Tempest, Lycoming, etc.). Also confirmed the correct model number stamped on the pump prior to installing. >> >> Frustrating...... >> >> While I'm waiting on AFP to get back to me with some ideas, I bought some fittings and a vacuum pump to draw a vacuum on various parts of the fuel system in search for a leak. >> >> I'd love to find a cracked flare or something like that and put this to bed. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>> >>> >>> The thing that has me wondering is if the new pressure level is too high. I know that you can buy those pumps in higher pressure versions, which would imply that they are also made in lower pressure versions. I'm wondering which one your needs required. I watched my pressure today on a flight and it was generally 24-26psi. You said yours was over 30. I'm not sure how significant the difference is, but if the pressure was higher, I can at least comprehend that perhaps the additional pressure could cause fuel to be leaked out somewhere. Maybe that's where the blue stain came from and it's all recent? Anyway, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. And when you do, it will be educational for us all, so thank you very much for sharing. >>> Tim >>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I did about 2 hours ago. We will see what he says. >>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Now with the picture. Bob Newman TCW Technologies, LLC 610-928-3420 > On Aug 12, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > Also confirmed in AFP documentation that inlet pressures of 20-90 psi are g ood. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> I had some fuel there prior to the fuel pump swap. I know that because t he drain line had a blue tint. >> >> The low pressure pump runs 4-6 psi for carbureted engines. >> >> The model number on mine is the correct model number for the IO-540. I c onfirmed it from multiple online sources (Tempest, Lycoming, etc.). Also co nfirmed the correct model number stamped on the pump prior to installing. >> >> Frustrating...... >> >> While I'm waiting on AFP to get back to me with some ideas, I bought some fittings and a vacuum pump to draw a vacuum on various parts of the fuel sy stem in search for a leak. >> >> I'd love to find a cracked flare or something like that and put this to b ed. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>> >>> >>> The thing that has me wondering is if the new pressure level is too high . I know that you can buy those pumps in higher pressure versions, which wo uld imply that they are also made in lower pressure versions. I'm wondering w hich one your needs required. I watched my pressure today on a flight and it was generally 24-26psi. You said yours was over 30. I'm not sure how sign ificant the difference is, but if the pressure was higher, I can at least co mprehend that perhaps the additional pressure could cause fuel to be leaked o ut somewhere. Maybe that's where the blue stain came from and it's all recen t? Anyway, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. And when you do, it wil l be educational for us all, so thank you very much for sharing. >>> Tim >>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Phillip Perry wrote : >>>> >>>> >>>> I did about 2 hours ago. We will see what he says. >>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
From: "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
Just an observation after reading this thread. I am not convinced that the pressure fluctuation and the engine stumble are related. It would seem that your pressure would have to drop below 15 psi for the engine to react. With your new pump, you are never seeing pressure that falls below an acceptable pressure for normal ops. Also, have you checked your fuel vents? Also, pull all your injector restrictions and do a clean and check. Purge the lines prior to reinstallation Have you looked at your egts? Could it be a shorted or open plug? Have you done a lean mag test on the ground and does either mag exhibit and stumble more so than the other? It seems to early for a sticking valve, but could be something has gotten under the seat of an intake valve which might account for the stain in the fab -------- Bill WA0SYV Aviation Partners, LLC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471816#471816 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
IMHO, doing anything with the injectors at this point would be a waste of time and wear an tear on the injector lines. Anything in an injector will cause a steady state lean condition, easily observable on EGT as higher than normal. Roughness indicates a variable condition, such as inconsistent spark, air/water in fuel, etc. Roughness after a hot start is normal for a few minutes, due to vaporized fuel in lines. I suppose a small item in an injector could move around, but not too common. Also, since I know Phil has quick build wings, any debris left in tanks would be minimal, should be caught by screens and filter in system. Kelly On 8/13/2017 7:49 AM, bill.peyton wrote: > > Just an observation after reading this thread. I am not convinced that the pressure fluctuation and the engine stumble are related. It would seem that your pressure would have to drop below 15 psi for the engine to react. With your new pump, you are never seeing pressure that falls below an acceptable pressure for normal ops. Also, have you checked your fuel vents? Also, pull all your injector restrictions and do a clean and check. Purge the lines prior to reinstallation > > Have you looked at your egts? Could it be a shorted or open plug? Have you done a lean mag test on the ground and does either mag exhibit and stumble more so than the other? > > It seems to early for a sticking valve, but could be something has gotten under the seat of an intake valve which might account for the stain in the fab > > -------- > Bill > WA0SYV > Aviation Partners, LLC > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471816#471816 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Thanks for all the ideas. I'm willing to entertain all of them. I am working through the stuff under the seats right now, just to 100% rule it out and drive a stake any issues or doubt lingering under there. Aside from checking screens and strainers, I'm pulling a vacuum on each segment of the fuel system and watching for a leak down on the gauge to be 100% confident there are absolutely no air leaks. At that point I can feel 100% certain all my efforts need to be focused forward if the firewall. I hate breaking apart the system to investigate because it introduces more variables. But systematically going through the thing and putting and eyeball and wrench on everything is the only way to clear them 100%. What I can tell you definitively right now. 1) There is no air leak in the fuel line segment between the boost pump and engine drive pump inlet. 2) The fuel filter is clear, minus a couple of small little fibers tucked into the bottom corner of one pleat. It's was good. 3) The finger strainer in the left tank is clear as the day it was installed. Everything beyond that is speculation right now. I will continue to run out the lines on the left side after church. Then I'll move on to the right. After vacuum testing is competed to prove no-air, I will flow test with fuel from both tanks going forward. Then, once that's done, I'm 100% focused forward of the firewall. At this point, the only way to get hard answers is systematically work through it piece by piece. I'll keep you posted. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 13, 2017, at 10:00 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > IMHO, doing anything with the injectors at this point would be a waste of time and wear an tear on the injector lines. Anything in an injector will cause a steady state lean condition, easily observable on EGT as higher than normal. Roughness indicates a variable condition, such as inconsistent spark, air/water in fuel, etc. Roughness after a hot start is normal for a few minutes, due to vaporized fuel in lines. > I suppose a small item in an injector could move around, but not too common. Also, since I know Phil has quick build wings, any debris left in tanks would be minimal, should be caught by screens and filter in system. > Kelly > >> On 8/13/2017 7:49 AM, bill.peyton wrote: >> Just an observation after reading this thread. I am not convinced that the pressure fluctuation and the engine stumble are related. It would seem that your pressure would have to drop below 15 psi for the engine to react. With your new pump, you are never seeing pressure that falls below an acceptable pressure for normal ops. Also, have you checked your fuel vents? Also, pull all your injector restrictions and do a clean and check. Purge the lines prior to reinstallation >> Have you looked at your egts? Could it be a shorted or open plug? Have you done a lean mag test on the ground and does either mag exhibit and stumble more so than the other? >> It seems to early for a sticking valve, but could be something has gotten under the seat of an intake valve which might account for the stain in the fab >> -------- >> Bill >> WA0SYV >> Aviation Partners, LLC >> Read this topic online here: >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471816#471816 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Aug 14, 2017
Subject: Mounting of Garmin GTS-800 Processor Box
I am considering mounting my Garmin GTS-800 TCAS processor in the rear fuselage behind the the baggage bulkhead and would like to know where others who have installed the GTS-800 have mounted their processor box please? The box is fairly weighty (around 4lbs / 2.5kg) and I am mindful of the need to fabricate a suitably reinforced mounting bracket that will sufficiently handle in flight g-loads. Any pictures would be appreciated please. Warm regards Patrick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2017
Subject: Re: Before the fuel pump exchange - one last question
Couple of small items to report, but no smoking guns yet. Just a couple of small items. But for the benefit of the group or those coming after me in the archives... 1) The system from the left tank to the firewall is tight. 2) I learned that it doesn't take much vacuum (5 inches is enough) to leak fuel from the right side of the Andair fuel valve to the left. Not surprising as the valve is designed to operate near-zero pressures and just provide the path of least resistance. So the valve is a bit difficult to test if you're looking at doing it with vacuum. Lessons learned. 3) I did replace the line from the fuel valve to the filter. It passed the leak test, but did show signs of stress on the flares. So I went ahead and replaced it. 4) The thing I did find that could potentially be a clue came when checking the fuel strainer on the right tank. The strainer was clean and I was getting ready to re-install it when I noticed this nick where the flare fitting would seat. It looks more like an abrasion with a file than a nick. Photos attached. If you look closely, you can see where the flare would seat on the fitting and a small portion of the abrasion intersects that "ring". This fitting hasn't leaked fuel, so there's no promises here. But it's marginal enough in quality that I want to replace it so I don't have to worry about it being a cause going forward. It's possible that it was leaking just enough air to put a bubble up at the sensor. Who knows.... But I called Vans and ordered a replacement overnight. I'm done until it shows up. I've got things torn down enough at this point that I don't want to complicate things any more by proceeding to check other items. Just want to finish up what I've started, get it back to a known state, then proceed from there with further inspections. But thats the info at this point. Phil [image: Inline image 1] [image: Inline image 2] On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: > Thanks for all the ideas. I'm willing to entertain all of them. > > I am working through the stuff under the seats right now, just to 100% > rule it out and drive a stake any issues or doubt lingering under there. > > Aside from checking screens and strainers, I'm pulling a vacuum on each > segment of the fuel system and watching for a leak down on the gauge to be > 100% confident there are absolutely no air leaks. At that point I can feel > 100% certain all my efforts need to be focused forward if the firewall. > > I hate breaking apart the system to investigate because it introduces more > variables. But systematically going through the thing and putting and > eyeball and wrench on everything is the only way to clear them 100%. > > What I can tell you definitively right now. > > 1) There is no air leak in the fuel line segment between the boost pump > and engine drive pump inlet. > > 2) The fuel filter is clear, minus a couple of small little fibers tucked > into the bottom corner of one pleat. It's was good. > > 3) The finger strainer in the left tank is clear as the day it was > installed. > > Everything beyond that is speculation right now. I will continue to run > out the lines on the left side after church. Then I'll move on to the > right. > > After vacuum testing is competed to prove no-air, I will flow test with > fuel from both tanks going forward. > > Then, once that's done, I'm 100% focused forward of the firewall. > > At this point, the only way to get hard answers is systematically work > through it piece by piece. > > I'll keep you posted. > > Phil > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 13, 2017, at 10:00 AM, Kelly McMullen > wrote: > > > > > > IMHO, doing anything with the injectors at this point would be a waste > of time and wear an tear on the injector lines. Anything in an injector > will cause a steady state lean condition, easily observable on EGT as > higher than normal. Roughness indicates a variable condition, such as > inconsistent spark, air/water in fuel, etc. Roughness after a hot start is > normal for a few minutes, due to vaporized fuel in lines. > > I suppose a small item in an injector could move around, but not too > common. Also, since I know Phil has quick build wings, any debris left in > tanks would be minimal, should be caught by screens and filter in system. > > Kelly > > > >> On 8/13/2017 7:49 AM, bill.peyton wrote: > >> Just an observation after reading this thread. I am not convinced that > the pressure fluctuation and the engine stumble are related. It would seem > that your pressure would have to drop below 15 psi for the engine to > react. With your new pump, you are never seeing pressure that falls below > an acceptable pressure for normal ops. Also, have you checked your fuel > vents? Also, pull all your injector restrictions and do a clean and check. > Purge the lines prior to reinstallation > >> Have you looked at your egts? Could it be a shorted or open plug? Have > you done a lean mag test on the ground and does either mag exhibit and > stumble more so than the other? > >> It seems to early for a sticking valve, but could be something has > gotten under the seat of an intake valve which might account for the stain > in the fab > >> -------- > >> Bill > >> WA0SYV > >> Aviation Partners, LLC > >> Read this topic online here: > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471816#471816 > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2017
Subject: Engine Oil Ring Fush
I am running a Lycoming IO540-C4B5 on my 10. At the last condition inspection, the number one and two cylinders failed the compression test with numbers of 58/80. To date it now has about 750 additional hours on it over six years of flying. A little history. I put this engine on the airplane in 2009 with a first flight in 2010. It had 982 SMOH and had all chrome cylinders. I had the fuel system overhauled and added a light speed ignition on installation. After some running, I replaced three of the cylinders (1 and 2 were in that three). Over the next five years of operation two more cylinders were replaced. Looking back at the condition inspections I see that the compression numbers on 1 and 2 were steadily dropping by about 5 points per year. Had not really noticed anything until these two failed. Oil consumption took a large hike just before the last condition inspection too. So now I was looking for a problem. I had resigned myself to remove those two cylinders and see what was going on. Bore scope inspection showed the valves to be OK. I had the cowling off and was getting ready for a removal and got a visit from another pilot on the airport who has a long history of flying and racing IO-540 engines and currently flies a Piper Malibu (Twin turbo IO-540 engine). After talking with him, he suggested I do an oil ring wash on the two cylinders using the procedure in the attached document. He said it had saved two engines in the past and that he now does this on the Malibu at each annual. So what the heck, I had nothing to loose by trying this. After doing the oil ring wash, changing the oil, and and flying for a couple of hours, I checked the cylinders again. 78/80 on both cylinders and oil consumption is back to low numbers. Engine is running great now (35+ hours) and at the next condition inspection I will do the other four cylinders. So my question: Has anyone ever heard of this? I was very skeptical but the results have been way beyond my expectations. Jim Combs N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Oil Ring Fush
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2017
You need to explore further what a compression test is and isn't. There is no such thing as "failing" a compression test if there is not leakage through the valves. While you may have suffered some oil ring sticking that would account for oil consumption. Your compressions are not the issue that you think. You likely would have seen an improvement just from flying and testing compression while cylinders were hot. Mike Busch has some articles on the web on the issue. Kelly On 8/15/2017 6:46 AM, Jim Combs wrote: > I am running a Lycoming IO540-C4B5 on my 10. At the last condition > inspection, the number one and two cylinders failed the compression test > with numbers of 58/80. To date it now has about 750 additional hours > on it over six years of flying. > > A little history. I put this engine on the airplane in 2009 with a > first flight in 2010. It had 982 SMOH and had all chrome cylinders. I > had the fuel system overhauled and added a light speed ignition on > installation. After some running, I replaced three of the cylinders (1 > and 2 were in that three). Over the next five years of operation two > more cylinders were replaced. Looking back at the condition inspections > I see that the compression numbers on 1 and 2 were steadily dropping by > about 5 points per year. Had not really noticed anything until these > two failed. Oil consumption took a large hike just before the last > condition inspection too. So now I was looking for a problem. > > I had resigned myself to remove those two cylinders and see what was > going on. Bore scope inspection showed the valves to be OK. I had the > cowling off and was getting ready for a removal and got a visit from > another pilot on the airport who has a long history of flying and racing > IO-540 engines and currently flies a Piper Malibu (Twin turbo IO-540 > engine). After talking with him, he suggested I do an oil ring wash on > the two cylinders using the procedure in the attached document. He said > it had saved two engines in the past and that he now does this on the > Malibu at each annual. So what the heck, I had nothing to loose by > trying this. > > After doing the oil ring wash, changing the oil, and and flying for a > couple of hours, I checked the cylinders again. 78/80 on both cylinders > and oil consumption is back to low numbers. > > Engine is running great now (35+ hours) and at the next condition > inspection I will do the other four cylinders. > > So my question: Has anyone ever heard of this? I was very skeptical but > the results have been way beyond my expectations. > > Jim Combs > N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2017
Subject: Re: Engine Oil Ring Fush
I had major leakage into the crankcase during the compression testing on those two cylinders. It was not there in previous condition inspections. I did my follow on compression testing at the same conditions as well. So whatever this has done has resulted in significant improvement. I do oil analysis as well. It will be interesting to see what shows up in the next oil change analysis. Jim C On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > You need to explore further what a compression test is and isn't. There > is no such thing as "failing" a compression test if there is not leakage > through the valves. While you may have suffered some oil ring sticking that > would account for oil consumption. Your compressions are not the issue that > you think. You likely would have seen an improvement just from flying and > testing compression while cylinders were hot. > Mike Busch has some articles on the web on the issue. > Kelly > > On 8/15/2017 6:46 AM, Jim Combs wrote: > >> I am running a Lycoming IO540-C4B5 on my 10. At the last condition >> inspection, the number one and two cylinders failed the compression test >> with numbers of 58/80. To date it now has about 750 additional hours on >> it over six years of flying. >> >> A little history. I put this engine on the airplane in 2009 with a first >> flight in 2010. It had 982 SMOH and had all chrome cylinders. I had the >> fuel system overhauled and added a light speed ignition on installation. >> After some running, I replaced three of the cylinders (1 and 2 were in that >> three). Over the next five years of operation two more cylinders were >> replaced. Looking back at the condition inspections I see that the >> compression numbers on 1 and 2 were steadily dropping by about 5 points per >> year. Had not really noticed anything until these two failed. Oil >> consumption took a large hike just before the last condition inspection >> too. So now I was looking for a problem. >> >> I had resigned myself to remove those two cylinders and see what was >> going on. Bore scope inspection showed the valves to be OK. I had the >> cowling off and was getting ready for a removal and got a visit from >> another pilot on the airport who has a long history of flying and racing >> IO-540 engines and currently flies a Piper Malibu (Twin turbo IO-540 >> engine). After talking with him, he suggested I do an oil ring wash on the >> two cylinders using the procedure in the attached document. He said it had >> saved two engines in the past and that he now does this on the Malibu at >> each annual. So what the heck, I had nothing to loose by trying this. >> >> After doing the oil ring wash, changing the oil, and and flying for a >> couple of hours, I checked the cylinders again. 78/80 on both cylinders >> and oil consumption is back to low numbers. >> >> Engine is running great now (35+ hours) and at the next condition >> inspection I will do the other four cylinders. >> >> So my question: Has anyone ever heard of this? I was very skeptical but >> the results have been way beyond my expectations. >> >> Jim Combs >> N312F >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Oil Ring Fush
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2017
Kelly, I'm just wanting to clarify and interpret your reply. I for one read Jim's post and thought about it a little and thought "man, this could actually be a good tip for an older engine". But, to make sure the whole world knows, let me state, "I am no expert!". I just picture it being perhaps a good thing if you de-gum the rings and cylinder at some point if you have high oil consumption. Maybe it's not, and maybe I'm being led down a rabbit hole. But, if someone were to do the procedure he attached, I would think that if done carefully it should be a fairly non-issue, and if it worked, could be a positive thing. Then, to your point about compression, I do personally understand that, and would myself just have flown it another bit of time to see if the compression improved. I would also make sure to do the test while warm/hot. So I agree with your reply from that standpoint. That said, he did see decreasing compression in steps, so perhaps there is something that could have benefited the engine from the procedure. I just can't separate wives tale from truth on this particular issue. I can see how it may be worth the effort....if done carefully...but not sure I'm game for doing it myself at this point. I certainly won't throw the email away however, because I would try this before I bought a top overhaul if the valves were good. If you have more comments, Kelly, I'd love to have you expand on the topic. Tim On 8/15/2017 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > You need to explore further what a compression test is and isn't. > There is no such thing as "failing" a compression test if there is not > leakage through the valves. While you may have suffered some oil ring > sticking that would account for oil consumption. Your compressions are > not the issue that you think. You likely would have seen an improvement > just from flying and testing compression while cylinders were hot. > Mike Busch has some articles on the web on the issue. > Kelly > > On 8/15/2017 6:46 AM, Jim Combs wrote: >> I am running a Lycoming IO540-C4B5 on my 10. At the last condition >> inspection, the number one and two cylinders failed the compression >> test with numbers of 58/80. To date it now has about 750 additional >> hours on it over six years of flying. >> >> A little history. I put this engine on the airplane in 2009 with a >> first flight in 2010. It had 982 SMOH and had all chrome cylinders. >> I had the fuel system overhauled and added a light speed ignition on >> installation. After some running, I replaced three of the cylinders >> (1 and 2 were in that three). Over the next five years of operation >> two more cylinders were replaced. Looking back at the condition >> inspections I see that the compression numbers on 1 and 2 were >> steadily dropping by about 5 points per year. Had not really noticed >> anything until these two failed. Oil consumption took a large hike >> just before the last condition inspection too. So now I was looking >> for a problem. >> >> I had resigned myself to remove those two cylinders and see what was >> going on. Bore scope inspection showed the valves to be OK. I had >> the cowling off and was getting ready for a removal and got a visit >> from another pilot on the airport who has a long history of flying and >> racing IO-540 engines and currently flies a Piper Malibu (Twin turbo >> IO-540 engine). After talking with him, he suggested I do an oil ring >> wash on the two cylinders using the procedure in the attached >> document. He said it had saved two engines in the past and that he >> now does this on the Malibu at each annual. So what the heck, I had >> nothing to loose by trying this. >> >> After doing the oil ring wash, changing the oil, and and flying for a >> couple of hours, I checked the cylinders again. 78/80 on both >> cylinders and oil consumption is back to low numbers. >> >> Engine is running great now (35+ hours) and at the next condition >> inspection I will do the other four cylinders. >> >> So my question: Has anyone ever heard of this? I was very skeptical >> but the results have been way beyond my expectations. >> >> Jim Combs >> N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Oil Ring Fush
From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2017
It looks like this flush method, or rather a similar one with added MEK was developed by Ed Kollin, the developer of Camguard. I trust Ed's judgement on that, and it looks like Mike Busch endorses him too. Attaching a pdf with his method, note the warning on the bottom, that the flush might soften the oil quickdrain o-ring. Lenny Tim Olson wrote: > Kelly, > > I'm just wanting to clarify and interpret your reply. > I for one read Jim's post and thought about it a little and > thought "man, this could actually be a good tip for > an older engine". But, to make sure the whole world knows, > let me state, "I am no expert!". I just picture it being > perhaps a good thing if you de-gum the rings and cylinder > at some point if you have high oil consumption. Maybe it's > not, and maybe I'm being led down a rabbit hole. But, if > someone were to do the procedure he attached, I would think > that if done carefully it should be a fairly non-issue, > and if it worked, could be a positive thing. > > Then, to your point about compression, I do personally > understand that, and would myself just have flown it > another bit of time to see if the compression improved. > I would also make sure to do the test while warm/hot. > So I agree with your reply from that standpoint. > > That said, he did see decreasing compression in steps, > so perhaps there is something that could have benefited > the engine from the procedure. > > I just can't separate wives tale from truth on this > particular issue. I can see how it may be worth the > effort....if done carefully...but not sure I'm game > for doing it myself at this point. I certainly won't > throw the email away however, because I would try this > before I bought a top overhaul if the valves were good. > > If you have more comments, Kelly, I'd love to have you > expand on the topic. > > Tim > > > > > On 8/15/2017 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > > > > > You need to explore further what a compression test is and isn't. > > There is no such thing as "failing" a compression test if there is not > > leakage through the valves. While you may have suffered some oil ring > > sticking that would account for oil consumption. Your compressions are > > not the issue that you think. You likely would have seen an improvement > > just from flying and testing compression while cylinders were hot. > > Mike Busch has some articles on the web on the issue. > > Kelly > > > > On 8/15/2017 6:46 AM, Jim Combs wrote: > > > I am running a Lycoming IO540-C4B5 on my 10. At the last condition > > > inspection, the number one and two cylinders failed the compression > > > test with numbers of 58/80. To date it now has about 750 additional > > > hours on it over six years of flying. > > > > > > A little history. I put this engine on the airplane in 2009 with a > > > first flight in 2010. It had 982 SMOH and had all chrome cylinders. > > > I had the fuel system overhauled and added a light speed ignition on > > > installation. After some running, I replaced three of the cylinders > > > (1 and 2 were in that three). Over the next five years of operation > > > two more cylinders were replaced. Looking back at the condition > > > inspections I see that the compression numbers on 1 and 2 were > > > steadily dropping by about 5 points per year. Had not really noticed > > > anything until these two failed. Oil consumption took a large hike > > > just before the last condition inspection too. So now I was looking > > > for a problem. > > > > > > I had resigned myself to remove those two cylinders and see what was > > > going on. Bore scope inspection showed the valves to be OK. I had > > > the cowling off and was getting ready for a removal and got a visit > > > from another pilot on the airport who has a long history of flying and > > > racing IO-540 engines and currently flies a Piper Malibu (Twin turbo > > > IO-540 engine). After talking with him, he suggested I do an oil ring > > > wash on the two cylinders using the procedure in the attached > > > document. He said it had saved two engines in the past and that he > > > now does this on the Malibu at each annual. So what the heck, I had > > > nothing to loose by trying this. > > > > > > After doing the oil ring wash, changing the oil, and and flying for a > > > couple of hours, I checked the cylinders again. 78/80 on both > > > cylinders and oil consumption is back to low numbers. > > > > > > Engine is running great now (35+ hours) and at the next condition > > > inspection I will do the other four cylinders. > > > > > > So my question: Has anyone ever heard of this? I was very skeptical > > > but the results have been way beyond my expectations. > > > > > > Jim Combs > > > N312F > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471884#471884 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_control_ring_solvent_flush_procedure_ed_kollin_camguard_157.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Oil Ring Fush
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2017
Tim, I don't doubt that any procedure that manages to free stuck rings will improve both oil consumption and compression. I really wasn't commenting on the effectiveness, short or long term of such a procedure. What I was commenting on is the unreliability of compression tests...a position that has been advocated by both Continental and Mike Busch for some time. Continental has proved that an engine that only tests at 30/80 due to large ring gaps, absent valve problems will make full rated power. Far too many cylinders are removed for "repair" that are not justified. Yes, they make get better compression with a hone and fresh rings, but at what cost? Does it do anything but marginally improve oil consumption? How much oil can you buy compared to cost of removing, repairing and re-installing said cylinder? Kelly On 8/15/2017 9:47 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Kelly, > > I'm just wanting to clarify and interpret your reply. > I for one read Jim's post and thought about it a little and > thought "man, this could actually be a good tip for > an older engine". But, to make sure the whole world knows, > let me state, "I am no expert!". I just picture it being > perhaps a good thing if you de-gum the rings and cylinder > at some point if you have high oil consumption. Maybe it's > not, and maybe I'm being led down a rabbit hole. But, if > someone were to do the procedure he attached, I would think > that if done carefully it should be a fairly non-issue, > and if it worked, could be a positive thing. > > Then, to your point about compression, I do personally > understand that, and would myself just have flown it > another bit of time to see if the compression improved. > I would also make sure to do the test while warm/hot. > So I agree with your reply from that standpoint. > > That said, he did see decreasing compression in steps, > so perhaps there is something that could have benefited > the engine from the procedure. > > I just can't separate wives tale from truth on this > particular issue. I can see how it may be worth the > effort....if done carefully...but not sure I'm game > for doing it myself at this point. I certainly won't > throw the email away however, because I would try this > before I bought a top overhaul if the valves were good. > > If you have more comments, Kelly, I'd love to have you > expand on the topic. > > Tim > > > > > On 8/15/2017 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> You need to explore further what a compression test is and isn't. >> There is no such thing as "failing" a compression test if there is not >> leakage through the valves. While you may have suffered some oil ring >> sticking that would account for oil consumption. Your compressions are >> not the issue that you think. You likely would have seen an >> improvement just from flying and testing compression while cylinders >> were hot. >> Mike Busch has some articles on the web on the issue. >> Kelly >> >> On 8/15/2017 6:46 AM, Jim Combs wrote: >>> I am running a Lycoming IO540-C4B5 on my 10. At the last condition >>> inspection, the number one and two cylinders failed the compression >>> test with numbers of 58/80. To date it now has about 750 additional >>> hours on it over six years of flying. >>> >>> A little history. I put this engine on the airplane in 2009 with a >>> first flight in 2010. It had 982 SMOH and had all chrome cylinders. >>> I had the fuel system overhauled and added a light speed ignition on >>> installation. After some running, I replaced three of the cylinders >>> (1 and 2 were in that three). Over the next five years of operation >>> two more cylinders were replaced. Looking back at the condition >>> inspections I see that the compression numbers on 1 and 2 were >>> steadily dropping by about 5 points per year. Had not really noticed >>> anything until these two failed. Oil consumption took a large hike >>> just before the last condition inspection too. So now I was looking >>> for a problem. >>> >>> I had resigned myself to remove those two cylinders and see what was >>> going on. Bore scope inspection showed the valves to be OK. I had >>> the cowling off and was getting ready for a removal and got a visit >>> from another pilot on the airport who has a long history of flying >>> and racing IO-540 engines and currently flies a Piper Malibu (Twin >>> turbo IO-540 engine). After talking with him, he suggested I do an >>> oil ring wash on the two cylinders using the procedure in the >>> attached document. He said it had saved two engines in the past and >>> that he now does this on the Malibu at each annual. So what the >>> heck, I had nothing to loose by trying this. >>> >>> After doing the oil ring wash, changing the oil, and and flying for a >>> couple of hours, I checked the cylinders again. 78/80 on both >>> cylinders and oil consumption is back to low numbers. >>> >>> Engine is running great now (35+ hours) and at the next condition >>> inspection I will do the other four cylinders. >>> >>> So my question: Has anyone ever heard of this? I was very skeptical >>> but the results have been way beyond my expectations. >>> >>> Jim Combs >>> N312F > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tempest Sppark Plugs
From: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Aug 16, 2017
Hi I am wondering if anyone has used the Tempest Massive spark [lugs in their -10. I will likely be replacing my Champions in a few months and am wondering if Tempests are a good choice. My hanger mate has a set of 8 unused massive plugs that I could use (along with another 4). Any comments appreciated. Cheers Les C-GCWZ - Flyings C-GROK - Some assembly required Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471920#471920 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Sppark Plugs
I have used a lot of Tempest plugs with great results. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. 352-427-0285 jesse(at)saintaviation.com Sent from my iPad > On Aug 16, 2017, at 11:02 PM, kearney wrote: > > > Hi > > I am wondering if anyone has used the Tempest Massive spark [lugs in their -10. I will likely be replacing my Champions in a few months and am wondering if Tempests are a good choice. My hanger mate has a set of 8 unused massive plugs that I could use (along with another 4). > > Any comments appreciated. > > Cheers > > Les > > C-GCWZ - Flyings > C-GROK - Some assembly required > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471920#471920 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Hoppe <bruce.hoppe(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
I pulled my Champion spark plugs today with about 100 hours on them. Every one of them was bad with unmeasurably high resistance. Ordered Tempest today. Several friends with much more experience than me recommended Tempest over Champion. I am sending the bad spark plugs back to Champion through BPE tomorrow. Let's see what they say. Bruce Hoppe Sent from my iPad > On Aug 16, 2017, at 10:02 PM, kearney wrote: > > > Hi > > I am wondering if anyone has used the Tempest Massive spark [lugs in their -10. I will likely be replacing my Champions in a few months and am wondering if Tempests are a good choice. My hanger mate has a set of 8 unused massive plugs that I could use (along with another 4). > > Any comments appreciated. > > Cheers > > Les > > C-GCWZ - Flyings > C-GROK - Some assembly required > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471920#471920 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Sppark Plugs
Those Tempest fire wires are the cats meow. Amazing plugs! Smooth, nearly impossible to foul, and there's a good chance they'll reach TBO. They're expensive, but IMO they're worth every dollar (or Loonie in your case). Phil On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 10:14 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > I have used a lot of Tempest plugs with great results. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > 352-427-0285 > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Aug 16, 2017, at 11:02 PM, kearney wrote: > > > > > > Hi > > > > I am wondering if anyone has used the Tempest Massive spark [lugs in > their -10. I will likely be replacing my Champions in a few months and am > wondering if Tempests are a good choice. My hanger mate has a set of 8 > unused massive plugs that I could use (along with another 4). > > > > Any comments appreciated. > > > > Cheers > > > > Les > > > > C-GCWZ - Flyings > > C-GROK - Some assembly required > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471920#471920 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
Did you get your rough running and fuel pressure issues resolved? Did AFP have suggestions? The fine wires are good if you don't mind more than double the money up front, and hoping you don't drop one, break the electrode trying to adjust gap, or any other malady arise during your run to TBO with fine wires. Currently $80 times 12 vs $28 times 12. On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > Those Tempest fire wires are the cats meow. Amazing plugs! Smooth, > nearly impossible to foul, and there's a good chance they'll reach TBO. > > They're expensive, but IMO they're worth every dollar (or Loonie in your > case). > > Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
The difference is daylight and dark between the two. No gapping necessary. Buy, drop in, and fly for years. They're every bit as smooth as my electronic ignition and the drop off (assuming I'm leaned correctly) is about 140 rpm. Really awesome plugs. I'll never buy another massive electrode plug again. I got the plane back together yesterday and flew it for 1.1. Its back to running like a top, but fuel pressures are still fluctuating just at a higher psi. I'm going to try a few more things forward of the firewall. Once I get it nailed down a bit more I'll send an update. But don't have all the answers yet to provided anything definitive. Just working through theories forward of the f/w right now. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Did you get your rough running and fuel pressure issues resolved? Did > AFP have suggestions? > > The fine wires are good if you don't mind more than double the money > up front, and hoping you don't drop one, break the electrode trying to > adjust gap, or any other malady arise during your run to TBO with fine > wires. > Currently $80 times 12 vs $28 times 12. > > > >> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> Those Tempest fire wires are the cats meow. Amazing plugs! Smooth, >> nearly impossible to foul, and there's a good chance they'll reach TBO. >> >> They're expensive, but IMO they're worth every dollar (or Loonie in your >> case). >> >> Phil > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2017
I'd second that. I've had my current fine wire plugs for I think around 1000 hours or so, and I've never had to re-gap them once. They don't foul, and run real well. I am careful not to drop plugs, but if you drop any plug you shouldn't use it ever again, so I'd have to be careful with the massives too. They're just cheaper. I have liked them so much in my RV-10 that when I got a brand new IO-390 for the RV-14 that came with massive electrode plugs, I pulled them out and sold them and replaced them with fine-wire before the first engine start. I'll also never buy a massive again. The spark is so much more exposed to the fuel/air charge. Good luck, Phil, with your hunt! Tim On 8/17/2017 1:33 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > The difference is daylight and dark between the two. No gapping necessary. Buy, drop in, and fly for years. They're every bit as smooth as my electronic ignition and the drop off (assuming I'm leaned correctly) is about 140 rpm. Really awesome plugs. I'll never buy another massive electrode plug again. > > I got the plane back together yesterday and flew it for 1.1. Its back to running like a top, but fuel pressures are still fluctuating just at a higher psi. > > I'm going to try a few more things forward of the firewall. Once I get it nailed down a bit more I'll send an update. But don't have all the answers yet to provided anything definitive. Just working through theories forward of the f/w right now. > > Phil > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> Did you get your rough running and fuel pressure issues resolved? Did >> AFP have suggestions? >> >> The fine wires are good if you don't mind more than double the money >> up front, and hoping you don't drop one, break the electrode trying to >> adjust gap, or any other malady arise during your run to TBO with fine >> wires. >> Currently $80 times 12 vs $28 times 12. >> >> >> >>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> Those Tempest fire wires are the cats meow. Amazing plugs! Smooth, >>> nearly impossible to foul, and there's a good chance they'll reach TBO. >>> >>> They're expensive, but IMO they're worth every dollar (or Loonie in your >>> case). >>> >>> Phil >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2017
Glad you all liked fine wires so much. I have flown with Champion fine wires, currently have 8 of them in my -10. I have not noticed that kind of improvement. Have always had 80-120 rpm drop on mag checks. Granted the Tempest probably are better than the Champions. Usually, when I do the math, there isn't much difference in cost between massives that need replacing 3-4 times over a TBO run, and fine wires that don't need replacing, unless one gets damaged. On 8/17/2017 11:55 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I'd second that. > I've had my current fine wire plugs for I think around 1000 hours or so, > and I've never had to re-gap them once. They don't foul, and run > real well. I am careful not to drop plugs, but if you drop > any plug you shouldn't use it ever again, so I'd have to be careful > with the massives too. They're just cheaper. I have liked them > so much in my RV-10 that when I got a brand new IO-390 for the > RV-14 that came with massive electrode plugs, I pulled them out > and sold them and replaced them with fine-wire before the first > engine start. I'll also never buy a massive again. The spark > is so much more exposed to the fuel/air charge. > > Good luck, Phil, with your hunt! > Tim > > > > > On 8/17/2017 1:33 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >> The difference is daylight and dark between the two. No gapping >> necessary. Buy, drop in, and fly for years. They're every bit as >> smooth as my electronic ignition and the drop off (assuming I'm leaned >> correctly) is about 140 rpm. Really awesome plugs. I'll never buy >> another massive electrode plug again. >> >> I got the plane back together yesterday and flew it for 1.1. Its >> back to running like a top, but fuel pressures are still fluctuating >> just at a higher psi. >> >> I'm going to try a few more things forward of the firewall. Once I >> get it nailed down a bit more I'll send an update. But don't have all >> the answers yet to provided anything definitive. Just working >> through theories forward of the f/w right now. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>> >>> >>> Did you get your rough running and fuel pressure issues resolved? Did >>> AFP have suggestions? >>> >>> The fine wires are good if you don't mind more than double the money >>> up front, and hoping you don't drop one, break the electrode trying to >>> adjust gap, or any other malady arise during your run to TBO with fine >>> wires. >>> Currently $80 times 12 vs $28 times 12. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Phillip Perry >>>> wrote: >>>> Those Tempest fire wires are the cats meow. Amazing plugs! Smooth, >>>> nearly impossible to foul, and there's a good chance they'll reach TBO. >>>> >>>> They're expensive, but IMO they're worth every dollar (or Loonie in >>>> your >>>> case). >>>> >>>> Phil >>> >>> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
I wish I had experience with the fine wires at the time I built up the engine on paper; I probably would have skipped the electronic ignition all together for the simplicity and performance of the magneto and fine wires. On a scale with massive electrodes on one end and electronic ignition on the other, the Tempest fine wires performance had been much closer to the performance of the electronic ignition than to the massive electrode. I carry a massive electrode as a spare, but I'm even considering swapping the spare out for a fine wire in the go-box. Every time I do a mag check on my Slick, I literally smile. Is it as good as the electronic ignition? No. But man is it close and it doesn't require any wiring or squeezing a $1,700 box into a well ventilated home. I'd be just as happy with dual fine wire mags as I am with a 1 and 1 configuration. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 17, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Glad you all liked fine wires so much. I have flown with Champion fine wires, currently have 8 of them in my -10. I have not noticed that kind of improvement. Have always had 80-120 rpm drop on mag checks. Granted the Tempest probably are better than the Champions. Usually, when I do the math, there isn't much difference in cost between massives that need replacing 3-4 times over a TBO run, and fine wires that don't need replacing, unless one gets damaged. > >> On 8/17/2017 11:55 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> I'd second that. >> I've had my current fine wire plugs for I think around 1000 hours or so, >> and I've never had to re-gap them once. They don't foul, and run >> real well. I am careful not to drop plugs, but if you drop >> any plug you shouldn't use it ever again, so I'd have to be careful >> with the massives too. They're just cheaper. I have liked them >> so much in my RV-10 that when I got a brand new IO-390 for the >> RV-14 that came with massive electrode plugs, I pulled them out >> and sold them and replaced them with fine-wire before the first >> engine start. I'll also never buy a massive again. The spark >> is so much more exposed to the fuel/air charge. >> Good luck, Phil, with your hunt! >> Tim >>> On 8/17/2017 1:33 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>> >>> The difference is daylight and dark between the two. No gapping necessary. Buy, drop in, and fly for years. They're every bit as smooth as my electronic ignition and the drop off (assuming I'm leaned correctly) is about 140 rpm. Really awesome plugs. I'll never buy another massive electrode plug again. >>> >>> I got the plane back together yesterday and flew it for 1.1. Its back to running like a top, but fuel pressures are still fluctuating just at a higher psi. >>> >>> I'm going to try a few more things forward of the firewall. Once I get it nailed down a bit more I'll send an update. But don't have all the answers yet to provided anything definitive. Just working through theories forward of the f/w right now. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Did you get your rough running and fuel pressure issues resolved? Did >>>> AFP have suggestions? >>>> >>>> The fine wires are good if you don't mind more than double the money >>>> up front, and hoping you don't drop one, break the electrode trying to >>>> adjust gap, or any other malady arise during your run to TBO with fine >>>> wires. >>>> Currently $80 times 12 vs $28 times 12. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >>>>> Those Tempest fire wires are the cats meow. Amazing plugs! Smooth, >>>>> nearly impossible to foul, and there's a good chance they'll reach TBO. >>>>> >>>>> They're expensive, but IMO they're worth every dollar (or Loonie in your >>>>> case). >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>> >>>> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension
From: "whodja" <whodja(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2017
ASC and Vans does not sell them. Does anyone have a piece that you'd like to sell? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471944#471944 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Aug 18, 2017
Subject: Re: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension
I have a spare piece, email me with the length you require. I only cut off about 20mm from the supplied extension piece from Andair. Warm regards Patrick Pulis Adelaide, South Australia > On 18 Aug 2017, at 08:42, whodja wrote: > > > ASC and Vans does not sell them. Does anyone have a piece that you'd like to sell? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471944#471944 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2017
Subject: Re: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension
I don't think you can manage with just an extension piece. You need the connecting joint as well. It comes with the expensive extension. IIRC I had to order direct from Andair. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 4:12 PM, whodja wrote: > > ASC and Vans does not sell them. Does anyone have a piece that you'd like to sell? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471944#471944 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension
Date: Aug 18, 2017
The joint isn't a requirement, unless the valve isn't mounted directly unde rneath the switch handle. All I have is is just the extension. I ended up ordering direct from Andair as well. Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronic s.com> on behalf of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:17:43 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension I don't think you can manage with just an extension piece. You need the connecting joint as well. It comes with the expensive extension. IIRC I had to order direct from Andair. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 4:12 PM, whodja wrote: > > ASC and Vans does not sell them. Does anyone have a piece that you'd like to sell? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471944#471944 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: WTB 3" Andair Valve extension
From: "whodja" <whodja(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2017
I'll have to check with others about the connection for the extension. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471958#471958 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Lark <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
I replaced my old style Champions as well about a month ago. While none had really high resistance, they ranged between 1800 ohm to 2500. Champion told me they would refurbish them if I sent them in, so I did just that. Haven't seen them come back yet. Rick C-GDMH Sent from my iPad > On Aug 16, 2017, at 11:24 PM, Bruce Hoppe wrote: > > > I pulled my Champion spark plugs today with about 100 hours on them. Every one of them was bad with unmeasurably high resistance. Ordered Tempest today. Several friends with much more experience than me recommended Tempest over Champion. I am sending the bad spark plugs back to Champion through BPE tomorrow. Let's see what they say. > > Bruce Hoppe > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Aug 16, 2017, at 10:02 PM, kearney wrote: >> >> >> Hi >> >> I am wondering if anyone has used the Tempest Massive spark [lugs in their -10. I will likely be replacing my Champions in a few months and am wondering if Tempests are a good choice. My hanger mate has a set of 8 unused massive plugs that I could use (along with another 4). >> >> Any comments appreciated. >> >> Cheers >> >> Les >> >> C-GCWZ - Flyings >> C-GROK - Some assembly required >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471920#471920 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sam Ritchie <sritchie09(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2017
Subject: Re: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension
I did as well and got the parts in just a few days. On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 1:25 AM Bob Leffler wrote: > The joint isn't a requirement, unless the valve isn't mounted directly > underneath the switch handle. All I have is is just the extension. I > ended up ordering direct from Andair as well. > > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com < > owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Kelly McMullen < > apilot2(at)gmail.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:17:43 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension > > > I don't think you can manage with just an extension piece. You need > the connecting joint as well. It comes with the expensive extension. > IIRC I had to order direct from Andair. > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 4:12 PM, whodja wrote: > > > > ASC and Vans does not sell them. Does anyone have a piece that you'd > like to sell? > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471944#471944 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > Email Forum - > -List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > ums.matronics.com > ========== > p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > matronics.com > ========== > p; - List Contribution Web Site - > p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2017
Subject: Triple Tree from NE?
I hope to be at Triple Tree tomorrow for the eclipse. Is anybody going from a nywhere near Lancaster, PA or Virginia Beach that has an open seat for the r ide home? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Triple Tree from NE?
Date: Aug 20, 2017
Hey Jesse, I=99m in Greenville, SC and with all the hype, the =9Capocalypse=9D is turning into a zoo here for tomorrow. I=99ve forwarded your msg. on to our EAA guy, Dale Ellis, who will be there tomorrow and knows most of what=99s going on. Later, =93 Lew From: Jesse Saint Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:38 PM Subject: RV10-List: Triple Tree from NE? I hope to be at Triple Tree tomorrow for the eclipse. Is anybody going from anywhere near Lancaster, PA or Virginia Beach that has an open seat for the ride home? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Triple Tree from NE?
Date: Aug 20, 2017
Hi Lew. I don't know of anyone from there or going there. Sorry. It will be a zoo there tomorrow, I am sure. We could see 400 airplanes. I am going to be in the tower trying to help manage the traffic mess. Dale From: Jesse Saint Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:38 PM Subject: RV10-List: Triple Tree from NE? I hope to be at Triple Tree tomorrow for the eclipse. Is anybody going from anywhere near Lancaster, PA or Virginia Beach that has an open seat for the ride home? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Aug 21, 2017
Subject: Re: WTB 3" Adair Valve extension
I have a spare universal joint too. Warm regards Patrick > On 18 Aug 2017, at 12:47, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > I don't think you can manage with just an extension piece. You need > the connecting joint as well. It comes with the expensive extension. > IIRC I had to order direct from Andair. > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > > >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 4:12 PM, whodja wrote: >> >> ASC and Vans does not sell them. Does anyone have a piece that you'd like to sell? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471944#471944 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Triple Tree from NE?
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2017
I hope you made it. I wish I could have helped. Let me do a report: Triple Tree was fantastic! Beyond the wonder of totality (and we got it all as the cooling air killed the convection, thus killing the cumulus for clear blue skies), the folks at TT did an absolutely outstanding hosting job despite having no way to accurately guage the response. I'm sure it was a zoo for those that worked and volunteered for the event but they all deserve praise. I was last there 10 years ago when I was the only fly-in for an RC meet. The place as grown quite a bit since then so that they house a fly-in or two in addition to the famous RC events. 7,000 feet of smooth grass with parking and camping for many 100s of people and planes and campers. We came in the night before, sans the arrival procedure I'm sorry to say, but fit in with the traffic and the unofficial tower just fine. We were directed to a nice shady (!!) parking spot surrounded by by a couple of hundred other aircraft. Top notch bath and shower facilities, several lakes, paths, roads, buses, carts and very friendly hosts were all in place and operating. Everything was low key, organized, flexible and accommodating. My SO had a broken foot and was using a knee scooter so camping was challenging but fun nonetheless. A cook your own steak dinner was setup, "Filet or Sirloin", outside the main hangar along with the right beverages. I noted throughout that there were few mosquitoes and was convinced, without evidence, that the many acres had been sprayed. They had a water truck wetting down the dusty spots periodically. Just wonderful! The next day we just watched hundreds of arrivals that included a DC3, my first sighting of a Pilatus Porter, and just about every other production and experimental aircraft imaginable on the grass strip. The eclipse included a long foreplay, a few moments of ecstasy and a very quick departure my most aircraft and campers on the site. We lined up at one of two departure points and didn't witness anything amiss beyond a few runups while sitting in line. The control tower had a great controller on the radio with lots of help on the ground. Running a tower at a private, untowered airport is an art form that they nailed. I'm sure the last to arrive were a bit miffed because they seemed to be last to get out... but that's only fair, no? ATC at Greer and CLT were a bit overwhelmed by the Monday afternoon GA push but I'm sure they knew it was coming(?). Bill "thinking this must be what early Oshkosh might have felt like" Watson On 8/20/2017 7:38 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > I hope to be at Triple Tree tomorrow for the eclipse. Is anybody going > from anywhere near Lancaster, PA or Virginia Beach that has an open > seat for the ride home? > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2017
So we are referring to the Tempest UREM 38S fine wire (per the Service Instruction No. 1042AC)? I see they are $944/12 at ACS. Bill " " Watson --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
That sounds about right. But many of us only need 6. ;). I only use them on the bottom and use auto plugs on the top. I think if I had dual mags I'd use them on the bottom for sure but for the top I don't know. The bottoms foul so much easier...that's where they would do the most good. Tim > On Aug 22, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Bill Watson wrote: > > > So we are referring to the Tempest UREM 38S fine wire (per the Service Instruction No. 1042AC)? > > I see they are $944/12 at ACS. > > Bill " " Watson > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2017
Thanks Tim! I went back and read the plug info on your site. I'm thinking that my best option may be to put (6) fine wires on the bottom and stay with the Champions on top. I have enough to take me through another round of changes. Rotation will be a bit different so will have to think about that. Generally speaking I've been very happy with dual mags, LOP running and all. Having examined the plugs thru several cycles of rotation and a replacement round, I've become even more aggressive leaning on the ground, especially when in a conga line like the short one we had at Triple Tree a few days ago. Keeping the RPMs over 1,000 at all times seems to help as well. I clean and gap as required at every annual as well. Having never flown with any electronic ignition, I'm very satisfied in my ignorance. A note for dual mag, massive electrode owners: I was doing everything 'on condition' up thru about 1200 hours. Then I exchanged the mags for rebuilts and changed any remaining original plugs to new. Engine ran noticeably smoother and probably put out more power. I'll be doing more replacing and exchanging based on time going forward. (OT) I read your 2015 Bahama trip - our first Bahama trip in 2012 involved the exact same itinerary! I did my first Bonefishing while on Andros, always stop at Staniel for a 'burger, and incidentally joined up with an AOPA group at Fernandez Bay. We had a 2 story rental there that came with a resident cat(!) and a frog living in the fresh air toilet. Been back several times to other islands since... Love It All! Went to the Turks & Caicos and even the BVIs but there's really no need to go beyond the Bahamas which is by far the most accommodating to pilots. Bill "always looking forward to the next out island bonefishing experience" Watson On 8/22/2017 2:35 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > That sounds about right. But many of us only need 6. ;). I only use them on the bottom and use auto plugs on the top. > I think if I had dual mags I'd use them on the bottom for sure but for the top I don't know. The bottoms foul so much easier...that's where they would do the most good. > Tim > >> On Aug 22, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Bill Watson wrote: >> >> >> So we are referring to the Tempest UREM 38S fine wire (per the Service Instruction No. 1042AC)? >> >> I see they are $944/12 at ACS. >> >> Bill " " Watson >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Triple Tree from NE?
Date: Aug 23, 2017
Hey Bill, I passed on your review to Dale Ellis who is very involved with Triple Tree. He was extremely grateful and says he will pass it along to other volunteers/organizers. They had way more planes and participants than anticipated an still managed to pull it off without hitches ... maybe the exception was all the folks who wanted to take off immediately after totality and created the conga line. Later, =93 Lew From: Bill Watson Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:26 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Triple Tree from NE? I hope you made it. I wish I could have helped. Let me do a report: Triple Tree was fantastic! Beyond the wonder of totality (and we got it all as the cooling air killed the convection, thus killing the cumulus for clear blue skies), the folks at TT did an absolutely outstanding hosting job despite having no way to accurately guage the response. I'm sure it was a zoo for those that worked and volunteered for the event but they all deserve praise. I was last there 10 years ago when I was the only fly-in for an RC meet. The place as grown quite a bit since then so that they house a fly-in or two in addition to the famous RC events. 7,000 feet of smooth grass with parking and camping for many 100s of people and planes and campers. We came in the night before, sans the arrival procedure I'm sorry to say, but fit in with the traffic and the unofficial tower just fine. We were directed to a nice shady (!!) parking spot surrounded by by a couple of hundred other aircraft. Top notch bath and shower facilities, several lakes, paths, roads, buses, carts and very friendly hosts were all in place and operating. Everything was low key, organized, flexible and accommodating. My SO had a broken foot and was using a knee scooter so camping was challenging but fun nonetheless. A cook your own steak dinner was setup, "Filet or Sirloin", outside the main hangar along with the right beverages. I noted throughout that there were few mosquitoes and was convinced, without evidence, that the many acres had been sprayed. They had a water truck wetting down the dusty spots periodically. Just wonderful! The next day we just watched hundreds of arrivals that included a DC3, my first sighting of a Pilatus Porter, and just about every other production and experimental aircraft imaginable on the grass strip. The eclipse included a long foreplay, a few moments of ecstasy and a very quick departure my most aircraft and campers on the site. We lined up at one of two departure points and didn't witness anything amiss beyond a few runups while sitting in line. The control tower had a great controller on the radio with lots of help on the ground. Running a tower at a private, untowered airport is an art form that they nailed. I'm sure the last to arrive were a bit miffed because they seemed to be last to get out... but that's only fair, no? ATC at Greer and CLT were a bit overwhelmed by the Monday afternoon GA push but I'm sure they knew it was coming(?). Bill "thinking this must be what early Oshkosh might have felt like" Watson On 8/20/2017 7:38 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: I hope to be at Triple Tree tomorrow for the eclipse. Is anybody going from anywhere near Lancaster, PA or Virginia Beach that has an open seat for the ride home? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 Virus-free. www.avast.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2017
Subject: Hurricane Evac
For those of you -10 flyers who might be in the path of the hurricane and are considering evacuating, you're welcome to use our guest house for a few days. Might even be able help out a pair of folks since we have a pair of bedrooms in there. Located just on the west side of Waco, live right across the street from KPWG (nice and secure hard surface), 2 Bedrooms, 2 baths, large living area and kitchen, Wifi, and cable. If you are looking for a place to hide out, email me directly. Same can be said for those of you -10 folks who are traveling across the country and need a place to call it a night or let the weather play out for a bit. Just let me know and we can take care of you too. Phil Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Filters
From: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Hi Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus as to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? Cheers Les C-GCWZ Flying C-GROK Some assembly required Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and cheaper . https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney wrote: > > > Hi > > Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus as t o the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? > > Cheers > > Les > > C-GCWZ Flying > C-GROK Some assembly required > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Yep, I only use tempest oil filters, too. Tim On 8/25/2017 4:18 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and > cheaper. > > https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js > > https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney > wrote: > >> > >> >> Hi >> >> Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus >> as to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? >> >> Cheers >> >> Les >> >> C-GCWZ Flying >> C-GROK Some assembly required >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 >> >> >> >> >> >> <==========================; - The RV10-List Email Forum >> -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> http://forums.matr====================================================nbsp;--> >> http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================; - List >> Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List >> Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> <http://wiki.matronics.com> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Watched the videos (thanks Phillip) and am sold! Cheers Les Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472189#472189 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
Phillips oil, Tempest filter and Tempest plugs. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > Yep, I only use tempest oil filters, too. > Tim > > >> On 8/25/2017 4:18 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and >> cheaper. >> >> https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js >> >> https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney > > wrote: >> >>> > >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus >>> as to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Les >>> >>> C-GCWZ Flying >>> C-GROK Some assembly required >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <==========================; - The RV10-List Email Forum >>> -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> http://forums.matr====================================================nbsp;--> >>> http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================; - List >>> Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List >>> Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> <http://wiki.matronics.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: "tsts4" <tsts4us(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
jesse(at)saintaviation.co wrote: > Phillips oil, Tempest filter and Tempest plugs. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > > Same here. > > > > Yep, I only use tempest oil filters, too. > > Tim > > > > > > > On 8/25/2017 4:18 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and > > > cheaper. > > > > > > https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js > > > > > > https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> Hi > > >> > > >> Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus > > >> as to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> > > >> Les > > >> > > >> C-GCWZ Flying > > >> C-GROK Some assembly required > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Read this topic online here: > > >> > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > >> http://forums.matr====================================================nbsp;--> > > >> http://wiki.matronics.com> Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List > > >> Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Todd Stovall aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF RV-10 N728TT -- Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472191#472191 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Model number? Bill "feeling lazy" Watson On 8/25/2017 5:18 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and > cheaper. > > https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js > > https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney > wrote: > >> > >> >> Hi >> >> Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus >> as to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? >> >> Cheers >> >> Les >> >> C-GCWZ Flying >> C-GROK Some assembly required >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 >> >> >> >> >> >> <==========================;- The RV10-List Email Forum >> -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> http://forums.matr====================================================nbsp;--> >> http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================;- >> List Conbsp;-Matt Dralle, List >> Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> <http://wiki.matronics.com> >> >> >> >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: "tsts4" <tsts4us(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
jesse(at)saintaviation.co wrote: > Phillips oil, Tempest filter and Tempest plugs. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > Same here. -------- Todd Stovall aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF RV-10 N728TT -- Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472193#472193 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
I'm probably the wrong person to ask, since I have the Airwolf Remote Oil Filter mounted on to my firewall. Mine is a 48109-1, but I don't think that's the one commonly used if you're mounting in the normal location of the D4A5. On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Bill Watson wrote: > Model number? > > Bill "feeling lazy" Watson > > On 8/25/2017 5:18 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and > cheaper. > > https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js > > https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney wrote: > > > Hi > > Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus as > to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? > > Cheers > > Les > > C-GCWZ Flying > C-GROK Some assembly required > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 > > > <==========================; - The RV10-List Email Forum - > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > http://forums.matr====================================================nbsp;--> > http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================; - List > Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List > Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > <http://wiki.matronics.com> > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_3678380936954703690_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Sam as Jesse + Camguard. Model# Tempest AA48110-2 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472195#472195 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
Whatever your old model number is, is what your new model number is, basical ly. Tim > On Aug 25, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Bill Watson wrote: > > Model number? > > Bill "feeling lazy" Watson > >> On 8/25/2017 5:18 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and chea per. >> >> https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js >> >> https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus as to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Les >>> >>> C-GCWZ Flying >>> C-GROK Some assembly required >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <======================== ==; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10 -List >>> http://forums.matr================== ========================== ========nbsp;--> http://wiki.matronics.com<====== ====================; - Li st Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Ads.com/contribution">http ://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
The part number is valid only for genuine Lycoming filter adapter. Most after market adapters such as B&C, Casper, ADC use different filter # Tempest is certainly the market leader. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: > > Sam as Jesse + Camguard. > > Model# Tempest AA48110-2 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472195#472195 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
I should have added CamGuard to the list. I won't go without it. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > The part number is valid only for genuine Lycoming filter adapter. > Most after market adapters such as B&C, Casper, ADC use different > filter # > Tempest is certainly the market leader. > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > > >> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >> >> Sam as Jesse + Camguard. >> >> Model# Tempest AA48110-2 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472195#472195 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
We think alike. Phillips + camguard is where I'm at too. Tim > On Aug 25, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > > I should have added CamGuard to the list. I won't go without it. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> The part number is valid only for genuine Lycoming filter adapter. >> Most after market adapters such as B&C, Casper, ADC use different >> filter # >> Tempest is certainly the market leader. >> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >> >> >>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>> >>> Sam as Jesse + Camguard. >>> >>> Model# Tempest AA48110-2 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472195#472195 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
Phillips oil + Camguard and Tempest filters and Tempest fine wire plugs on the bottom. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. (Nearly 1000 hours!) David Maib > On Aug 25, 2017, at 9:59 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > We think alike. Phillips + camguard is where I'm at too. > Tim > >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: >> >> >> I should have added CamGuard to the list. I won't go without it. >> >> Jesse Saint >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >> C: 352-427-0285 >> F: 815-377-3694 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>> >>> >>> The part number is valid only for genuine Lycoming filter adapter. >>> Most after market adapters such as B&C, Casper, ADC use different >>> filter # >>> Tempest is certainly the market leader. >>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>> >>>> Sam as Jesse + Camguard. >>>> >>>> Model# Tempest AA48110-2 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472195#472195 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
Curious to know why so few are running Aeroshell? W100Plus with the corrosion protection additive already in the bottle.... Is there some data out there that I need to be aware of? Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2017, at 10:39 PM, David Maib wrote: > > > Phillips oil + Camguard and Tempest filters and Tempest fine wire plugs on the bottom. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. (Nearly 1000 hours!) > > David Maib > > >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 9:59 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >> >> We think alike. Phillips + camguard is where I'm at too. >> Tim >> >>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: >>> >>> >>> I should have added CamGuard to the list. I won't go without it. >>> >>> Jesse Saint >>> Saint Aviation, Inc. >>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >>> C: 352-427-0285 >>> F: 815-377-3694 >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> The part number is valid only for genuine Lycoming filter adapter. >>>> Most after market adapters such as B&C, Casper, ADC use different >>>> filter # >>>> Tempest is certainly the market leader. >>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sam as Jesse + Camguard. >>>>> >>>>> Model# Tempest AA48110-2 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472195#472195 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Yes. The additive in the "Plus" versions and 15W50 is not specifically anti-corrosion. It is the Lycoming extreme pressure lubricant, which is only required for "76 Series" engines such as the O-320-H2AD used in 77 and later C-172s. Exxon Elite or any oil with Camguard is far better than anything Aeroshell offers without Camguard. On 8/25/2017 8:46 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > Curious to know why so few are running Aeroshell? W100Plus with the corrosion protection additive already in the bottle.... > > Is there some data out there that I need to be aware of? > > Phil > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 10:39 PM, David Maib wrote: >> >> >> Phillips oil + Camguard and Tempest filters and Tempest fine wire plugs on the bottom. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. (Nearly 1000 hours!) >> >> David Maib >> >> >>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 9:59 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >>> >>> >>> We think alike. Phillips + camguard is where I'm at too. >>> Tim >>> >>>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I should have added CamGuard to the list. I won't go without it. >>>> >>>> Jesse Saint >>>> Saint Aviation, Inc. >>>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com >>>> C: 352-427-0285 >>>> F: 815-377-3694 >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The part number is valid only for genuine Lycoming filter adapter. >>>>> Most after market adapters such as B&C, Casper, ADC use different >>>>> filter # >>>>> Tempest is certainly the market leader. >>>>> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sam as Jesse + Camguard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Model# Tempest AA48110-2 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472195#472195 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
Bill, I see you're famous! https://youtu.be/zLi8BG2PahE?t=7m25s On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Bill Watson wrote: > Model number? > > Bill "feeling lazy" Watson > > On 8/25/2017 5:18 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > Running my last Champion now and switching to Tempest. Better and > cheaper. > > https://youtu.be/N22sAS80_Js > > https://youtu.be/4lH_sg121os > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 25, 2017, at 4:07 PM, kearney wrote: > > > Hi > > Now that we have flogged spark plugs to death, is there any consensus as > to the preferred oil filter - Champion or Tempest? > > Cheers > > Les > > C-GCWZ Flying > C-GROK Some assembly required > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472186#472186 > > > <==========================; - The RV10-List Email Forum - > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > http://forums.matr====================================================nbsp;--> > http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================; - List > Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List > Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > <http://wiki.matronics.com> > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-8857746378743614217_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Filters
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
I actually used to use Exxon Elite all the time, and then when camguard came out I added that to it. I still had some cases of it left so in the winter I used it with camguard last year, just because Exxon Elite was supposed to also be more anti-corrosion. But after Aviation Consumer came out with their oil testing with Camguard and said that Philips + Camguard was the best bargain, I started going that route. Philips costs less, and is available locally only 20 minutes away from an oil supplier in town. I would probably be happy to use Exxon Elite in the winters along with camguard. The one thing that keeps me with just Philips is that I've always heard in cars at least that synthetics can lead to hardening of seals. I figure if sticking with non-synthetics can help prevent hardening, and Camguard prevents corrosion, that should be a good way to go. I know all of the local FBO's around me for all nearly 20 years that I've been flying, have all been Philips, and they seem to get great life out of their planes. So, I'm comfortable with it for sure. Tim On 8/25/2017 10:53 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Yes. The additive in the "Plus" versions and 15W50 is not specifically > anti-corrosion. It is the Lycoming extreme pressure lubricant, which > is only required for "76 Series" engines such as the O-320-H2AD used > in 77 and later C-172s. > Exxon Elite or any oil with Camguard is far better than anything > Aeroshell offers without Camguard. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wtb: RV10 project
From: "William Davis" <flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2017
I built a RV6A and need 4 seats now. Looking for a rv10 project. Please let me know what you have. Flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com Thanks Bill[/list] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472225#472225 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Springer <larryspringer52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2017
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
Bill I have a 10 project that I would be willing to sell. I'll send some pictures and a list of equipment to you. I live in Seattle and the plane is located at KPAE. Cheers Larry Springer Larryspringer52(at)gmail.com On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 2:52 PM William Davis wrote: > > I built a RV6A and need 4 seats now. Looking for a rv10 project. Please > let me know what you have. Flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com > > Thanks > Bill[/list] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472225#472225 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Speaking Of Camguard
From: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Aug 26, 2017
Hi At KOSH '16 I spent some time talking to Ed Kollins at the Camguard booth. During this chat Ed noted that Without going into the all the details, Ed noted that Maroine Camguard has a friction modifier that reduces piston friction. For Experimental Lycs this can be added to the oil. Based on his recommendation I have been using it since then. When I first added it I recall seeing about an 6-8 degree drop in CHTs. Cheers Les C-GCWZ Flying C-GROK Some assembly required Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472235#472235 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2017
I know of one in Chandler AZ, perhaps 3/4th done. On 8/26/2017 2:49 PM, William Davis wrote: > > I built a RV6A and need 4 seats now. Looking for a rv10 project. Please let me know what you have. Flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com > > Thanks > Bill[/list] > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472225#472225 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
From: "William Davis" <flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2017
Kellym wrote: > I know of one in Chandler AZ, perhaps 3/4th done. > > Hi Kellym I'm interested. Please email me any info or contact info to flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com > > Thanks > Bill > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472245#472245 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
From: "William Davis" <flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2017
Thanks Marcus for the heads up. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472253#472253 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
From: "William Davis" <flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2017
Thanks Marcus for the heads up. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472254#472254 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Carr <junk(at)dcarr.org>
Date: Aug 27, 2017
Subject: Plug wire routing
Hi guys, Does anyone have pictures of how you ran the magneto wires to the plugs? I'm interested specifically in how you supported the wires where they cross behind the engine. There's a lot of stuff back there to chafe on. Thanks, David ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plug wire routing
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2017
It will be pretty different depending on all of the specifics of your install, like plug wire brand, number of mags, and all of that. But, in general, you can run them thru adel clamps hung from various things such as accessory case bolts, the engine mount, or anything else secure. One tip that I do have though is that even though you can bundle the 3 plug wires into an adel clamp, I did find that just the very slight movement between the cable and the clamp eventually wore the outer rubber coating off and started to polish the plug wire braid into the copper. What I've started doing is getting the wires in place, and then inject red RTV into the gaps, so there won't be any movement of the wires once they are in place, relative to the clamp or eachother. That's eliminated the chafing. Tim On 8/27/2017 10:58 PM, David Carr wrote: > Hi guys, > > Does anyone have pictures of how you ran the magneto wires to the > plugs? I'm interested specifically in how you supported the wires where > they cross behind the engine. There's a lot of stuff back there to > chafe on. > > Thanks, > David ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I-Pad shutdown - caution overheated I-Pad
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Sep 03, 2017
I have been flying with an I-Pad (full size- I-Pad Air) mounted in my RV10 on the "co-pilot" side of the panel for 8 years now. It is mounted in an aluminum mount that kicks it at a 30 degree angle toward the pilot. This way both the pilot and co-pilot can see the unit. Anyway today I flew in Concord CA (KCCR)where the day was very hot. It was probably 95-98 degrees when I got there and eventually it got up to 106. As I did not want vapor lock upon shutdown, I unloaded my buddy and his stuff and got ready to launch. Just as I called ground control to taxi, my I-pad gave a message that it was too hot and was shutting down. Then it just shut down. Fortunately, I had my I-Phone operating with Foreflight also and I used that for the frequencies, traffic, and runway/taxiway layout. I climbed to 9,500 feet where it was cool and put the I-Pad in the airflow above my knee and it soon booted up again. In the future under such hot conditions, I think that I will take more care to carefully shield my I-Pad from the direct sun. -------- See you OSH '17 Q/B - flying 7 yrs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472481#472481 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2017
Subject: Re: I-Pad shutdown - caution overheated I-Pad
Yep, that'll happen. We use this thing. It works very well. http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/x-naut-cooling-case-for-ipad-mini-1-4.html But keeping sun off the screen makes a big difference too. -- Dave On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 23:14 AirMike wrote: > > I have been flying with an I-Pad (full size- I-Pad Air) mounted in my RV10 > on the "co-pilot" side of the panel for 8 years now. It is mounted in an > aluminum mount that kicks it at a 30 degree angle toward the pilot. This > way both the pilot and co-pilot can see the unit. > Anyway today I flew in Concord CA (KCCR)where the day was very hot. It was > probably 95-98 degrees when I got there and eventually it got up to 106. > As I did not want vapor lock upon shutdown, I unloaded my buddy and his > stuff and got ready to launch. Just as I called ground control to taxi, my > I-pad gave a message that it was too hot and was shutting down. Then it > just shut down. Fortunately, I had my I-Phone operating with Foreflight > also and I used that for the frequencies, traffic, and runway/taxiway > layout. I climbed to 9,500 feet where it was cool and put the I-Pad in the > airflow above my knee and it soon booted up again. In the future under such > hot conditions, I think that I will take more care to carefully shield my > I-Pad from the direct sun. > > -------- > See you OSH '17 > Q/B - flying 7 yrs. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472481#472481 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Subject: Balancing the Elevators
Guys When I built the Elevators of my RV-9A (more than 10 years ago), I seem to remember that the manual said to balance them, either adding or taking off some weight to/from the lead blocks which are bolted to the Elevators' arms. I can't find any similar instruction in the RV-10 manual. Is it to be done? Did you do it yourself? Best Carlos Enviado do meu iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel line testing
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Getting ready to pressurize from fuel servo back to wing root testing for leaks. Should there be any concern about pressurizing backwards through mechanical and electric fuel pump? Don't want to blow a diaphragm or whatever the configuration is in there. -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472535#472535 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
I don't think there really is a concern, but I chose to test by vacuum. One thing I'd mention is that me fuel valve is going to leak by in the body between your right and left tanks. When it's flowing fuel and operating near neutral pressures, it will seal up. But when you put pressure (or vacuum on it) it will leak by the seals/o-rings internally. Took me a while to figure that out. I'd suggest testing segments as opposed to the whole thing because of the complexity of the fuel valve leaking. But it can be done as long as you're ready for it. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 5, 2017, at 8:30 PM, rvdave wrote: > > > Getting ready to pressurize from fuel servo back to wing root testing for leaks. Should there be any concern about pressurizing backwards through mechanical and electric fuel pump? Don't want to blow a diaphragm or whatever the configuration is in there. > > -------- > Dave Ford > RV6 for sale > RV10 building > Cadillac, MI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472535#472535 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
Phil, Did you get your engine running smoothly again? -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > I don't think there really is a concern, but I chose to test by vacuum. > > One thing I'd mention is that me fuel valve is going to leak by in the > body between your right and left tanks. When it's flowing fuel and > operating near neutral pressures, it will seal up. But when you put > pressure (or vacuum on it) it will leak by the seals/o-rings internally. > Took me a while to figure that out. > > I'd suggest testing segments as opposed to the whole thing because of the > complexity of the fuel valve leaking. But it can be done as long as you're > ready for it. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 5, 2017, at 8:30 PM, rvdave wrote: > > > > > > Getting ready to pressurize from fuel servo back to wing root testing > for leaks. Should there be any concern about pressurizing backwards through > mechanical and electric fuel pump? Don't want to blow a diaphragm or > whatever the configuration is in there. > > > > -------- > > Dave Ford > > RV6 for sale > > RV10 building > > Cadillac, MI > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472535#472535 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
Hope to have a final report over the next day or so. I've been absent for a bout 3 weeks dealing with a death in the family and then right back down to H ouston making trips post Harvey to get my parents out, and back, and out, ba ck to get setup again too. I made a flight today that really looked good. Hope to confirm some if it i n the next day or so and then once I know it's good I'll claim victory. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 6, 2017, at 12:07 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Phil, > Did you get your engine running smoothly again? > > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > >> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Phillip Perry wrot e: >> >> I don't think there really is a concern, but I chose to test by vacuum. >> >> One thing I'd mention is that me fuel valve is going to leak by in the bo dy between your right and left tanks. When it's flowing fuel and operating n ear neutral pressures, it will seal up. But when you put pressure (or vacuum on it) it will leak by the seals/o-rings internally. Took me a while to f igure that out. >> >> I'd suggest testing segments as opposed to the whole thing because of the complexity of the fuel valve leaking. But it can be done as long as you're ready for it. >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Sep 5, 2017, at 8:30 PM, rvdave wrote: >> > >> > >> > Getting ready to pressurize from fuel servo back to wing root testing f or leaks. Should there be any concern about pressurizing backwards through m echanical and electric fuel pump? Don't want to blow a diaphragm or whatever the configuration is in there. >> > >> > -------- >> > Dave Ford >> > RV6 for sale >> > RV10 building >> > Cadillac, MI >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472535#472535 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> ========================= >> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?RV10-List >> ========================= >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========================= >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========================= >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========================= >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Curtis Groote <cgroote1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
Subject: Fuel selector valve
Has anyone replaced their standard Van's fuel selector valve with an Andair fuel selector valve? Why would one want to do that? What is the part number? Thanks. Curtis Groote ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
A lot of builders have chosen the Andair valve. There were reports at one time of the Vans valve failing early, and I believe it got redesigned. The Andair valve is well built, more aircraft quality than the Vans valve. IMHO, the stock mounting location is too high in the tunnel, regardless of the brand. You want to minimize the elevation changes from wing to boost pump to reduce chances of an air or vapor blockage. It takes some effort to make the fuel line bends to get the valve as low as possible in the tunnel, but I believe it reduces chances blockage, and reduces amount of suction needed to get fuel from wings to the pump. On 9/7/2017 7:36 AM, Curtis Groote wrote: > > Has anyone replaced their standard Van's fuel selector valve with an Andair fuel selector valve? Why would one want to do that? What is the part number? Thanks. > > > Curtis Groote > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Fuel selector valve
Date: Sep 07, 2017
1. If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line. Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me. I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits. 2. I have mine in stock location. I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder. I have had no problems with the valve. But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve. Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also. I think it is a much nicer valve. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 8:46 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel selector valve A lot of builders have chosen the Andair valve. There were reports at one time of the Vans valve failing early, and I believe it got redesigned. The Andair valve is well built, more aircraft quality than the Vans valve. IMHO, the stock mounting location is too high in the tunnel, regardless of the brand. You want to minimize the elevation changes from wing to boost pump to reduce chances of an air or vapor blockage. It takes some effort to make the fuel line bends to get the valve as low as possible in the tunnel, but I believe it reduces chances blockage, and reduces amount of suction needed to get fuel from wings to the pump. On 9/7/2017 7:36 AM, Curtis Groote wrote: > > Has anyone replaced their standard Van's fuel selector valve with an Andair fuel selector valve? Why would one want to do that? What is the part number? Thanks. > > > Curtis Groote > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
rene(at)felker.com wrote: > 1. If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line. Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me. I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits. > 2. I have mine in stock location. I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder. I have had no problems with the valve. But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve. Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also. I think it is a much nicer valve. > > Rene' > 801-721-6080 > > -- 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?). 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472591#472591 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
Date: Sep 07, 2017
Oh, so they moved it down. I would still replace the valve because I do not like the feel, just does not feel like it is in position and I always wonder when I am in the air. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 4:08 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel selector valve rene(at)felker.com wrote: > 1. If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line. Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me. I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits. > 2. I have mine in stock location. I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder. I have had no problems with the valve. But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve. Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also. I think it is a much nicer valve. > > Rene' > 801-721-6080 > > -- 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?). 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472591#472591 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
Bob, That's interesting. I know I did it that way in 2005 (finished and flew in Feb 2006). I wasn't aware that they made the change to the plans though. I'm actually impressed. I thought they never changed anything once it was released, unless it was a major issue. I did it for the reasons you mentioned, including the heater SCAT. I'm just surprised that it actually became official. It made sense to me at least. Tim > > 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?). > 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
The post early 2008 set up uses a very slightly modified valve - the shaft is slightly thinner. The handle up on top of the tunnel is greatly improved, with a locking feature and a 'pull up to turn' feature. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472595#472595 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
If you have no air/vapor in the system, no leaks, etc. then yes siphon is no big deal. Is that the real world in your airplane if you run one tank dry, or your connections are imperfect? Will your fuel not vaporize when suction is applied to it? At 130 degrees runway temperature? Ever tried to start a siphon with mouth suction? The amount of rise definitely makes a difference. On 9/7/2017 3:08 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > rene(at)felker.com wrote: >> 1. If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line. Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me. I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits. >> 2. I have mine in stock location. I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder. I have had no problems with the valve. But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve. Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also. I think it is a much nicer valve. >> >> Rene' >> 801-721-6080 >> >> -- > > > 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?). > 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472591#472591 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
Subject: Fuel PSI Fluctuations - Update
For the past few weeks, I haven't had much time to fly. But it's getting b etter tomorrow I hope to fly some more and hopefully get knocking on the doo r of retiring Phase 1. I am not willing to claim 100% victory yet, but I've managed to make some go od progress on the fuel pressure fluctuations and the rough engine. After searching for leaks, contamination, etc. I finally zeroed in on heat forward of the firewall. My tunnel is cool to the touch so it had to be f orward. I had mentioned that I re-routed a fuel line away from exhaust and that help ed smooth out the engine quite a bit. But there was still a hint of roughne ss. Not bad, but enough to make you sit up straight in your seat. I manufactured some heat shields and clamped them on to the fuel lines comin g into and out of the engine driven fuel pump. Protecting from exhaust hea t. That appears to be the secret to the rough engine. Last two flights have b een great. The fuel PSI fluctuations were reduced from 4 psi in cruise to a bout .5 psi. Good progress! My fuel pump cooling shroud came in, and knowing the heat shields made a dif ference, I stared down my fuel pump and picked the fight. After a simple 4 h our swap earlier, this time that @&$%# beast fought me at every turn. 2 da ys and 11 hours of shop time later, it was installed and test run. I hate f uel pump replacements now and my hands are chewed up and bruised from this o ne. I flew it again tonight and the cooling shroud didn't make any incremental d ifference.........though I suspect it will still be beneficial once we get b ack to the hot Texas weather again. Here is a video from tonight in cruise. https://youtu.be/x3geLPYmuyU I was still seeing about 4 psi fluctuations in climb but in cruise it was ba ck in the .5 range. Engine is running well and .5 doesn't seem that bad once you're stable in cr uise. So I'm going to let it go until it becomes a problem or some symptom s begin showing their face. So far it's what you want out of the airplane . My next thing to try is focusing on the sensor. I'm going to re-crimp the s ensor wires to make sure that's not contributing to it. And maybe, someday, I might replace be sensor. But at least it's safe now and running like you'd expect. Takes a load off and it's nice to be able to relax a bit and not have to sit straight up in t he seat the entire time. :) Phil Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Van's builders in the news
Always good to see folks I am acquainted with through various forums in the news, in this case for obtaining alternate methods of compliance (AMOC) with regard to the NavWorx AD: "The AMOCs were obtained by three individual aircraft owners. *Bob Leffler * of Columbus, Ohio, requested an AMOC for the Garmin GTN 650 and GTN 750 series of GPS navigators, and has become a spokesman for the group; *Ralph Capen* sought an AMOC for the Garmin GNS 430W and GNS 530W series, and *Phi l Yoder* for the Garmin GNS 480. =9CRalph and I submitted our AMOCs independently before we knew each other,=9D Leffler said. They met th rough the Van=99s Air Force online forum. =9CPhil joined in later bec ause he=99s a friend, and has the 480. =9CI had never heard of an AMOC before,=9D Leffler continued. =9CIt was clearly synergistic once we all knew about each other. But it wasn=99t rocket science.=9D He and Capen simply picked up their phones and called the guy whose name was at the bottom of the AD=99s final rule . Leffler said the FAA was very helpful in guiding the three owners through the AMOC process." Extracted from the weekly AOPA news email. Kelly ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
""One thing I'd mention is that me fuel valve is going to leak by in the body between your right and left tanks. When it's flowing fuel and operating near neutral pressures, it will seal up. But when you put pressure (or vacuum on it) it will leak by the seals/o-rings internally. Took me a while to figure that out"". Ok, so I'm pressurizing at the wing root, capped before going into fuel servo, have the afp purge valve outlet plugged and I am showing a leak / won't hold pressure, but can't find any fittings leaking with bubble test. Could my stock fuel valve be leaking ? Even if it was all outlets are capped so should hold pressure? Puzzled -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472612#472612 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
Lol. You're right where I was when I tried it too. Head scratching. Are you capped at both tanks? Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2017, at 8:51 AM, rvdave wrote: > > > ""One thing I'd mention is that me fuel valve is going to leak by in the body between your right and left tanks. When it's flowing fuel and operating near neutral pressures, it will seal up. But when you put pressure (or vacuum on it) it will leak by the seals/o-rings internally. Took me a while to figure that out"". > > Ok, so I'm pressurizing at the wing root, capped before going into fuel servo, have the afp purge valve outlet plugged and I am showing a leak / won't hold pressure, but can't find any fittings leaking with bubble test. Could my stock fuel valve be leaking ? Even if it was all outlets are capped so should hold pressure? Puzzled > > -------- > Dave Ford > RV6 for sale > RV10 building > Cadillac, MI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472612#472612 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Yoder <phil(at)philyoder.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Van's builders in the news
If I can be of any help, please let me know. Phil On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 6:48 AM Kelly McMullen wrote: > Always good to see folks I am acquainted with through various forums in > the news, in this case for obtaining alternate methods of compliance (AMO C) > with regard to the NavWorx AD: > "The AMOCs were obtained by three individual aircraft owners. *Bob > Leffler * of Columbus, Ohio, requested an AMOC for the Garmin GTN 650 and > GTN 750 series of GPS navigators, and has become a spokesman for the grou p; *Ralph > Capen* sought an AMOC for the Garmin GNS 430W and GNS 530W series, and *P hil > Yoder* for the Garmin GNS 480. =9CRalph and I submitted our AMOCs > independently before we knew each other,=9D Leffler said. They met through > the Van=99s Air Force online forum. =9CPhil joined in later b ecause he=99s a > friend, and has the 480. > > =9CI had never heard of an AMOC before,=9D Leffler continued. =9CIt was clearly > synergistic once we all knew about each other. But it wasn=99t rock et > science.=9D He and Capen simply picked up their phones and called t he guy > whose name was at the bottom of the AD=99s final rule > . Leffler > said the FAA was very helpful in guiding the three owners through the AMO C > process." > Extracted from the weekly AOPA news email. > Kelly > -- Phil Yoder phil(at)philyoder.com \__________o-( )-o__________/ www.itsnotthatcomplex.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Don't know for sure, but I think after a lot of work in phase 1 in 2008 I have the system sealed very well. I have run a tank dry and also un-ported a tank doing slips. In both cases great response from changing tanks or just coming out of the slip. In the case of running the tank dry I also used Aux pump, but with the slip it recovered before I even hit the pump. Vapor lock has been a concern for me because of the heat in the tunnel and does add to my desire to change it if I ever do this again. I have a friend who has asked me to help with his RV-10 Quickbuild........so I have been going back through the list of possible mods again. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 8:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel selector valve If you have no air/vapor in the system, no leaks, etc. then yes siphon is no big deal. Is that the real world in your airplane if you run one tank dry, or your connections are imperfect? Will your fuel not vaporize when suction is applied to it? At 130 degrees runway temperature? Ever tried to start a siphon with mouth suction? The amount of rise definitely makes a difference. On 9/7/2017 3:08 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > rene(at)felker.com wrote: >> 1. If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome the friction of the longer line. Don't think it matters either way and I am just saying this because it interest me. I do think limiting the number of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits. >> 2. I have mine in stock location. I was kit 322 and did that part of the build in 2006 I think, early builder. I have had no problems with the valve. But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve. Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing also. I think it is a much nicer valve. >> >> Rene' >> 801-721-6080 >> >> -- > > > 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower, providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right (or should I say 'wrong'?). > 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472591#472591 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: Van's builders in the news
Date: Sep 08, 2017
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Subject: Re: Van's builders in the news
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
I have mentioned to someone else that there is an RV-10 partial build for sale at KCHD (Chandler, AZ). I only have email contact, don't know how responsive seller is, and I know it was not built looking for airshow awards. I will send Phil a PM. You never know what ratty, barely flying homebuilt is going to park next to your shiny, fancy -10 at homebuilt camping. 8^) On 9/8/2017 8:17 AM, Bob Leffler wrote: > You never know what riftraff you may end camping next to at OSH. > > > BTW, Phil is about to join the ranks of us RV-10 builders. He's been > looking at some used projects to buy. If you know any, please let him > know. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Yes capped before entering tanks at wing root. I have a tee on right line forward to purge valve. Introducing air at right wing root. AFP pump after fuel valve, capped line at exit of purge valve, capped line at entrance line before servo. Funny thing is sometimes it appears to be a fast leak down and other times a slow leak down. Your explanation of fuel valve makes sense but can't prove it yet. No leak at stem of valve or nut of valve. Maybe afp pump or mech pump leak ? Still looking. -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472625#472625 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
I think you're on the right track. Checking me stem on the valve and bypass valve is a good idea. Also checking the two pumps and the body seams on them might be good too. Not sure about the PSI sensor, but it might have something goofy going on there too. I found that it was impossible to test the entire system, but broke it down and had to check each leg from the fuel valve in segments. I could prove the left side was tight. The right side was tight. The forward part was tight (capped at the inlet of the mechanical fuel pump). When you put it all together the results were inconsistent. Using my hand vacuum pump and gauge, I was able to determine that it didn't take much more than 2-3 inches of suction to suck open the o-rings/seals inside the valve. At 5 it was really moving fuel. That valve has isn't really designed to have pressures on it, it's just designed to provide a path from the tank forward. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2017, at 10:43 AM, rvdave wrote: > > > Yes capped before entering tanks at wing root. I have a tee on right line forward to purge valve. Introducing air at right wing root. AFP pump after fuel valve, capped line at exit of purge valve, capped line at entrance line before servo. Funny thing is sometimes it appears to be a fast leak down and other times a slow leak down. Your explanation of fuel valve makes sense but can't prove it yet. No leak at stem of valve or nut of valve. Maybe afp pump or mech pump leak ? Still looking. > > -------- > Dave Ford > RV6 for sale > RV10 building > Cadillac, MI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472625#472625 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
I have confirmed that the leak/pressure drop is isolated to the afp purge valve itself so I'm not sure how tight this is suppose to be internally. Seems like in ico position there should be no flow to spider but maybe it reacts differently to fuel rather than air? -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472670#472670 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
How much pressure are you putting on the line? Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2017, at 5:24 PM, rvdave wrote: > > > I have confirmed that the leak/pressure drop is isolated to the afp purge valve itself so I'm not sure how tight this is suppose to be internally. Seems like in ico position there should be no flow to spider but maybe it reacts differently to fuel rather than air? > > -------- > Dave Ford > RV6 for sale > RV10 building > Cadillac, MI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472670#472670 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2017
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Van's builders in the news
Thanks for the shout-out. I'm also available to assist in connection settings as well as communicating with the local FSDO...done that as well. I'm fully legal past the Jan and 2020 deadlines. -----Original Message----- From: Kelly McMullen Sent: Sep 8, 2017 9:40 AM Subject: RV10-List: Van's builders in the news Always good to see folks I am acquainted with through various forums in the news, in this case for obtaining alternate methods of compliance (AMOC) with regard to the NavWorx AD:"The AMOCs were obtained by three individual aircraft owners. Bob Leffler of Columbus, Ohio, requested an AMOC for the Garmin GTN 650 and GTN 750 series of GPS navigators, and has become a spokesman for the group; Ralph Capen sought an AMOC for the Garmin GNS 430W and GNS 530W series, and Phil Yoder for the Garmin GNS 480. Ralph and I submitted our AMOCs independently before we knew each other, Leffler said. They met through the Vans Air Force online forum. Phil joined in later because hes a friend, and has the 480. I had never heard of an AMOC before, Leffler continued. It was clearly synergistic once we all knew about each other. But it wasnt rocket science. He and Capen simply picked up their phones and called the guy whose name was at the bottom of the ADs final rule. Leffler said the FAA was very helpful in guiding the three owners through the AMOC process."Extracted from the weekly AOPA news email.Kelly ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
50 psi -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates around inside a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push those o-rings right out of the way. I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to recall its very low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check valves that are normally closed and they only open when the cylinder on the intake stroke sucks them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be kept at the spider but it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be over simplifying that, and others can correct me. But that's how I seem to recall it working. So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all the lines at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high. Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what you get. I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down to a lower pressure. If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a vacuum through it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds. You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your mouth. But you can prove it seals. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave wrote: > > > 50 psi > > -------- > Dave Ford > RV6 for sale > RV10 building > Cadillac, MI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Thanks for the info, that's probably why I saw a variance in the bleed down, I'll try lower pressure and see how that goes tomorrow. -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472677#472677 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
The input to the fuel servo is 15-30 psi. The output to the fuel flow divider is somewhere between 5 and 10 psi. When the fuel pressure drops below 4 psi there is a valve in the flow divider that closes to enable full idle cutoff. The intake valve opening has nothing to do with the delivery of fuel to the injector. Our injectors are continuous flow, and all that varies is the amount of fuel delivered. The fuel pressure the servo delivers to the flow divider determines the rate of fuel delivered to the intake manifold. The injector nozzle atomizes the fuel, which then hopefully vaporizes for uniform delivery into the cylinder. Certainly the purge valve should withstand up to 15 psi of fuel pressure. Air pressure is a different animal. If the purge valve doesn't leak with the engine running, it isn't the problem. You could fasten a paper towel around the valve outlet, then don't purge at shut down. If there are any fuel stains on the paper towel, it leaks. On 9/8/2017 4:52 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates around inside a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push those o-rings right out of the way. > > I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to recall its very low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check valves that are normally closed and they only open when the cylinder on the intake stroke sucks them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be kept at the spider but it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be over simplifying that, and others can correct me. But that's how I seem to recall it working. > > So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all the lines at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high. > > Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what you get. I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down to a lower pressure. > > If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a vacuum through it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds. > > You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your mouth. But you can prove it seals. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave wrote: >> >> >> 50 psi >> >> -------- >> Dave Ford >> RV6 for sale >> RV10 building >> Cadillac, MI >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
Back at the house where I can check the AFP flow divider manual. It doesn't sound like there's much pressure on the spider (or valve) from their description. I scanned for an exact number, but 1.75-3 PSI is the best I could find. Needless to say, I'd check with with a much smaller amount of pressure. Is the engine running or is this still in a new build? If it's a new build, I'd just check what you can check and work on the assumptions that the valves are behaving as designed until they really do exhibit a problem and warrant going down the rabbit hole of diagnosing a leak that may not exist. Phil FLOW DIVIDER 1-7. Metered fuel is delivered from the fuel controller to the flow divider. It's purpose is to divide the metered fuel equally to each injection nozzle at idle regardless of their height between each other. At idle, nozzle back pressure is typically 1-5 inches of gas pressure, if there is a difference in height between the nozzles then idle flow will tend to flow out the lowest nozzles. Metered fuel pressure enters the flow divider through a channel that permits fuel to pass through the I.D. of the flow divider spool valve. At idle the fuel pressure from the fuel controller must build up to overcome the spring force applied to the diaphragm and spool valve. This moves the spool valve upward to allow fuel to pass through the calibrated slots in the bottom of the flow divider bushing. Since the fuel controller meters and delivers a fixed amount of fuel to the flow divider, the spool valve will only open as far as necessary to pass the amount of fuel to the nozzles. Since it takes approximately 1.75-3 PSI pressure to open the spool valve, the fuel will accurately be divided between the nozzles if there is a difference in height between them of 70 inches. At idle the nozzle discharge pressure is negligible, the opening of the spool valve to the slots is very small, and thus the fuel is divided for the individual cylinders at this point by the flow divider. The flow divider also keeps the metered fuel under pressure and shuts off the individual nozzle ports when the fuel controller is placed in "idle cutoff". On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > The input to the fuel servo is 15-30 psi. The output to the fuel flow > divider is somewhere between 5 and 10 psi. When the fuel pressure drops > below 4 psi there is a valve in the flow divider that closes to enable full > idle cutoff. The intake valve opening has nothing to do with the delivery > of fuel to the injector. Our injectors are continuous flow, and all that > varies is the amount of fuel delivered. The fuel pressure the servo > delivers to the flow divider determines the rate of fuel delivered to the > intake manifold. The injector nozzle atomizes the fuel, which then > hopefully vaporizes for uniform delivery into the cylinder. > Certainly the purge valve should withstand up to 15 psi of fuel pressure. > Air pressure is a different animal. If the purge valve doesn't leak with > the engine running, it isn't the problem. You could fasten a paper towel > around the valve outlet, then don't purge at shut down. If there are any > fuel stains on the paper towel, it leaks. > > On 9/8/2017 4:52 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > >> >> Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates >> around inside a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push >> those o-rings right out of the way. >> >> I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to recall >> its very low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check valves >> that are normally closed and they only open when the cylinder on the intake >> stroke sucks them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be kept at >> the spider but it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be over >> simplifying that, and others can correct me. But that's how I seem to >> recall it working. >> >> So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all >> the lines at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high. >> >> Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what you >> get. I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down to a >> lower pressure. >> >> If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a >> vacuum through it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds. >> >> You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your >> mouth. But you can prove it seals. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave wrote: >>> >>> >>> 50 psi >>> >>> -------- >>> Dave Ford >>> RV6 for sale >>> RV10 building >>> Cadillac, MI >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
Phil, The pressures discussed above are for engine idle and idle cutoff. They are significantly higher when you are using substantial power. They are saying the spool valve is likely to close at anything less than 3 psi to achieve idle cutoff. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: > Back at the house where I can check the AFP flow divider manual. It > doesn't sound like there's much pressure on the spider (or valve) from > their description. I scanned for an exact number, but 1.75-3 PSI is the > best I could find. > > Needless to say, I'd check with with a much smaller amount of pressure. > > Is the engine running or is this still in a new build? If it's a new > build, I'd just check what you can check and work on the assumptions that > the valves are behaving as designed until they really do exhibit a problem > and warrant going down the rabbit hole of diagnosing a leak that may not > exist. > > Phil > > > FLOW DIVIDER > > 1-7. Metered fuel is delivered from the fuel controller to the flow > divider. It's purpose is to divide the metered fuel equally to each > injection nozzle at idle regardless of their height between each other. At > idle, nozzle back pressure is typically 1-5 inches of gas pressure, if > there is a difference in height between the nozzles then idle flow will > tend to flow out the lowest nozzles. Metered fuel pressure enters the flow > divider through a channel that permits fuel to pass through the I.D. of the > flow divider spool valve. At idle the fuel pressure from the fuel > controller must build up to overcome the spring force applied to the > diaphragm and spool valve. This moves the spool valve upward to allow fuel > to pass through the calibrated slots in the bottom of the flow divider > bushing. Since the fuel controller meters and delivers a fixed amount of > fuel to the flow divider, the spool valve will only open as far as > necessary to pass the amount of fuel to the nozzles. Since it takes > approximately 1.75-3 PSI pressure to open the spool valve, the fuel will > accurately be divided between the nozzles if there is a difference in > height between them of 70 inches. At idle the nozzle discharge pressure is > negligible, the opening of the spool valve to the slots is very small, and > thus the fuel is divided for the individual cylinders at this point by the > flow divider. The flow divider also keeps the metered fuel under pressure > and shuts off the individual nozzle ports when the fuel controller is > placed in "idle cutoff". > > On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Kelly McMullen > wrote: > >> >> The input to the fuel servo is 15-30 psi. The output to the fuel flow >> divider is somewhere between 5 and 10 psi. When the fuel pressure drops >> below 4 psi there is a valve in the flow divider that closes to enable full >> idle cutoff. The intake valve opening has nothing to do with the delivery >> of fuel to the injector. Our injectors are continuous flow, and all that >> varies is the amount of fuel delivered. The fuel pressure the servo >> delivers to the flow divider determines the rate of fuel delivered to the >> intake manifold. The injector nozzle atomizes the fuel, which then >> hopefully vaporizes for uniform delivery into the cylinder. >> Certainly the purge valve should withstand up to 15 psi of fuel pressure. >> Air pressure is a different animal. If the purge valve doesn't leak with >> the engine running, it isn't the problem. You could fasten a paper towel >> around the valve outlet, then don't purge at shut down. If there are any >> fuel stains on the paper towel, it leaks. >> >> On 9/8/2017 4:52 PM, Phillip Perry wrote: >> >>> >>> Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates >>> around inside a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push >>> those o-rings right out of the way. >>> >>> I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to >>> recall its very low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check >>> valves that are normally closed and they only open when the cylinder on the >>> intake stroke sucks them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be >>> kept at the spider but it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be >>> over simplifying that, and others can correct me. But that's how I seem >>> to recall it working. >>> >>> So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all >>> the lines at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high. >>> >>> Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what >>> you get. I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down >>> to a lower pressure. >>> >>> If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a >>> vacuum through it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds. >>> >>> You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your >>> mouth. But you can prove it seals. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> 50 psi >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Dave Ford >>>> RV6 for sale >>>> RV10 building >>>> Cadillac, MI >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =================================== >> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navig >> ator?RV10-List >> =================================== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> =================================== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> =================================== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> =================================== >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Pitch Trim tuning
Date: Sep 09, 2017
I am now in the process of final installation and testing the Elevator Trim system, and I could not find enough information on this. Especially for those who finished building and are already flying, you probably already heard this question a thousand times, so please forgive hearing it once more. When lowering the Pitch trim tabs, both go down simultaneously and both reach the bottom limit at the same time and angle. But when they go the other direction, i.e trim tabs up, the right side tab goes till the limit but the left trim tab doesn't. It goes up slower than the right tab, then stops moving and even reverses the movement, not reaching the upper angle limit. Is this normal? I did check all the Pitch trim system components, and they all seem to be installed by the plans. Need help! Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pitch Trim tuning
Date: Sep 09, 2017
Hey Carlos, I saved this from years ago. VERY common problem. I=99ll attach as a PDF file. Later, =93 Lew From: Carlos Trigo Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2017 7:25 AM Subject: RV10-List: Pitch Trim tuning I am now in the process of final installation and testing the Elevator Trim system, and I could not find enough information on this. Especially for those who finished building and are already flying, you probably already heard this question a thousand times, so please forgive hearing it once more. When lowering the Pitch trim tabs, both go down simultaneously and both reach the bottom limit at the same time and angle. But when they go the other direction, i.e trim tabs up, the right side tab goes till the limit but the left trim tab doesn=99t. It goes up slower than the right tab, then stops moving and even reverses the movement, not reaching the upper angle limit. Is this normal? I did check all the Pitch trim system components, and they all seem to be installed by the plans. Need help! Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenard Iszak <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2017
Subject: Re: Pitch Trim tuning
Tim has an excellent writeup on his site explaining the issue and how to fix it: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20080622/index.html It just recently saved my sanity trying to align my trim tabs after a trim b ellcrank rework. Lenny > On Sep 9, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > I am now in the process of final installation and testing the Elevator Tri m system, and I could not find enough information on this. > > Especially for those who finished building and are already flying, you pro bably already heard this question a thousand times, so please forgive hearin g it once more. > > When lowering the Pitch trim tabs, both go down simultaneously and both re ach the bottom limit at the same time and angle. > But when they go the other direction, i.e trim tabs up, the right side tab goes till the limit but the left trim tab doesn=99t. It goes up slowe r than the right tab, then stops moving and even reverses the movement, not r eaching the upper angle limit. > Is this normal? > > I did check all the Pitch trim system components, and they all seem to be i nstalled by the plans. > > Need help! > Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line testing
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2017
I've proven that my system does not have leak down pressure unless I hook up purge valve. I can't find any leaks at inlet or outlet connections so not sure if air is a way to test valve? I have a message sent to Don at Airflow and will await his reply. -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472722#472722 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2017
Subject: Re: Pitch Trim tuning
Excellent. I just did Bill's procedure to verify my trim. No need for digital level, nothing but Mk 1 eyeballs and a small ruler. 'My left tab was fine, my right tab needed one turn of adjustment. So I guess I will gain 5 kts on next flight. ;^) -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 5:40 AM, wrote: > Hey Carlos, > > I saved this from years ago. VERY common problem. I=99ll attach a s a PDF > file. > > Later, =93 Lew > > *From:* Carlos Trigo > *Sent:* Saturday, September 09, 2017 7:25 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Pitch Trim tuning > > > I am now in the process of final installation and testing the Elevator > Trim system, and I could not find enough information on this. > > > Especially for those who finished building and are already flying, you > probably already heard this question a thousand times, so please forgive > hearing it once more. > > > When lowering the Pitch trim tabs, both go down simultaneously and both > reach the bottom limit at the same time and angle. > > But when they go the other direction, i.e trim tabs up, the right side ta b > goes till the limit but the left trim tab doesn=99t. It goes up slo wer than > the right tab, then stops moving and even reverses the movement, not > reaching the upper angle limit. > > Is this normal? > > > I did check all the Pitch trim system components, and they all seem to be > installed by the plans. > > > Need help! > > Carlos > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pitch Trim tuning
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Sep 09, 2017
Not what you asked, but... Most people find the stock trim speed about right for airspeeds less than 100 knots. For higher airspeeds it's nice to have a way of slowing the trim speed down. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472730#472730 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Pitch Trim tuning
Date: Sep 10, 2017
Thank you Lew and Lenny I will try to follow the documents you both sent/pointed me out, and see if I reach the right rigging. But judging by what=99s written on them, it seems that the correct position of the FULL NOSE DOWN is that the Right Tab is up (23-25 degrees) and the Left Tab is neutral, which seems odd to me. It would appear that this position would cause some =9Cdistortion=9D to the tail .!!? What are everybody=99s thoughts on this? Carlos De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Lenard Iszak Enviada: Saturday, September 9, 2017 2:13 PM Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Assunto: Re: RV10-List: Pitch Trim tuning Tim has an excellent writeup on his site explaining the issue and how to fix it: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20080622/index.html It just recently saved my sanity trying to align my trim tabs after a trim bellcrank rework. Lenny On Sep 9, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Carlos Trigo > wrote: I am now in the process of final installation and testing the Elevator Trim system, and I could not find enough information on this. Especially for those who finished building and are already flying, you probably already heard this question a thousand times, so please forgive hearing it once more. When lowering the Pitch trim tabs, both go down simultaneously and both reach the bottom limit at the same time and angle. But when they go the other direction, i.e trim tabs up, the right side tab goes till the limit but the left trim tab doesn=99t. It goes up slower than the right tab, then stops moving and even reverses the movement, not reaching the upper angle limit. Is this normal? I did check all the Pitch trim system components, and they all seem to be installed by the plans. Need help! Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenard Iszak <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2017
Subject: Re: Pitch Trim tuning
Keep in mind that other RV models have only one trim tab. What causes distortion is that at one point you can have one tab trimming up while the other is trimming down. > On Sep 10, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > Thank you Lew and Lenny > > I will try to follow the documents you both sent/pointed me out, and see i f I reach the right rigging. > > But judging by what=99s written on them, it seems that the correct p osition of the FULL NOSE DOWN is that the Right Tab is up (23-25 degrees) an d the Left Tab is neutral, which seems odd to me. > It would appear that this position would cause some =9Cdistortion =9D to the tail .!!? > > What are everybody=99s thoughts on this? > > Carlos > > > De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma tronics.com] Em nome de Lenard Iszak > Enviada: Saturday, September 9, 2017 2:13 PM > Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Assunto: Re: RV10-List: Pitch Trim tuning > > Tim has an excellent writeup on his site explaining the issue and how to f ix it: > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20080622/index.html > > It just recently saved my sanity trying to align my trim tabs after a trim bellcrank rework. > > Lenny > > > On Sep 9, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > I am now in the process of final installation and testing the Elevator Tri m system, and I could not find enough information on this. > > Especially for those who finished building and are already flying, you pro bably already heard this question a thousand times, so please forgive hearin g it once more. > > When lowering the Pitch trim tabs, both go down simultaneously and both re ach the bottom limit at the same time and angle. > But when they go the other direction, i.e trim tabs up, the right side tab goes till the limit but the left trim tab doesn=99t. It goes up slowe r than the right tab, then stops moving and even reverses the movement, not r eaching the upper angle limit. > Is this normal? > > I did check all the Pitch trim system components, and they all seem to be i nstalled by the plans. > > Need help! > Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2017
From: Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RV-10 RTW
Hi Team, Is anyone following Sylvia and Brian Foster's RTW flight on-board ZU-IHF? They left South Africa in May and have just arrived at PHNL which be the fi rst mainland to Hawaii crossing by an RV-10? One wonders how they modified their fuel system for the crossing and how they met the HF radio requiremen t; the crossing was all the more difficult since they are flying East to We st? Their progress can be followed on Facebook at=C2- "Fosters RTW". Clear skies to all, Rodger NW AustraliaLand of the annual force 5 Cyclones.Our thoughts are with those who went through Katrina and now Irma ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Van's builders in the news
From: "rleffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2017
The FAA just released updated AMOCs for the Navworx ADS600-B units. The Garmin 4xx, 5xx, 6xx, and 7xx family of GPS are now included. They also fixed the omission of the 200-0012 for the Garmin 480 as well. Please give AOPA a couple days to get them online. bob -------- Bob Leffler N410BL - Phase I http://mykitlog.com/rleffler Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472822#472822 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dlm <dlm34077(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2017
Subject: RTW
The geographic science "guarantees" a tailwind after the aircraft crosses south of 30N; airlines and others use this. Very rarely the tailwinds don't materialize strong enough and an aircraft ditches short of Hawaii. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RTW
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Date: Sep 12, 2017
Eastbound or westbound? On 12.09.2017 14:55, dlm wrote: > The geographic science "guarantees" a tailwind after the aircraft > crosses south of 30N; airlines and others use this. Very rarely the > tailwinds don't materialize strong enough and an aircraft ditches short > of Hawaii. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2017
From: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com>
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
Late to the party on this, but wanted to ask. For the dual mag crowd like me... Is just using the fine wires on the bottom six a matter of $$$ and most benefit? If so and the $$$ were not an issue would you run on the top six also? -Sean #40303 (Closing in on 200 hrs in N428RV) > Bill Watson > August 23, 2017 at 12:13 PM > > Thanks Tim! > > I went back and read the plug info on your site. I'm thinking that my > best option may be to put (6) fine wires on the bottom and stay with > the Champions on top. I have enough to take me through another round > of changes. Rotation will be a bit different so will have to think > about that. > > Generally speaking I've been very happy with dual mags, LOP running > and all. Having examined the plugs thru several cycles of rotation > and a replacement round, I've become even more aggressive leaning on > the ground, especially when in a conga line like the short one we had > at Triple Tree a few days ago. Keeping the RPMs over 1,000 at all > times seems to help as well. I clean and gap as required at every > annual as well. Having never flown with any electronic ignition, I'm > very satisfied in my ignorance. > > A note for dual mag, massive electrode owners: I was doing everything > 'on condition' up thru about 1200 hours. Then I exchanged the mags > for rebuilts and changed any remaining original plugs to new. Engine > ran noticeably smoother and probably put out more power. I'll be > doing more replacing and exchanging based on time going forward. > > (OT) I read your 2015 Bahama trip - our first Bahama trip in 2012 > involved the exact same itinerary! I did my first Bonefishing while > on Andros, always stop at Staniel for a 'burger, and incidentally > joined up with an AOPA group at Fernandez Bay. We had a 2 story > rental there that came with a resident cat(!) and a frog living in the > fresh air toilet. Been back several times to other islands since... > Love It All! Went to the Turks & Caicos and even the BVIs but there's > really no need to go beyond the Bahamas which is by far the most > accommodating to pilots. > > Bill "always looking forward to the next out island bonefishing > experience" Watson > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2017
Personally, if money weren't an issue, I'd run them on top and bottom. In my case though I run auto plugs on top which are also iridium plugs, so in effect I do have the same fine-wire effect on both. You need to be careful of that electrode, but, the fine wire plugs are easier to get clean from the gunk that builds up, too. Tim On 9/12/2017 8:12 AM, Sean Stephens wrote: > > Late to the party on this, but wanted to ask. > > For the dual mag crowd like me... Is just using the fine wires on the > bottom six a matter of $$$ and most benefit? If so and the $$$ were not > an issue would you run on the top six also? > > -Sean #40303 (Closing in on 200 hrs in N428RV) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Tempest Spark Plugs
The difference of having them top and bottom is minimal. If someone gave me the fine wire plugs for the top, sure, I would run them. Is it worth the extra 54 bucks per plug? Well that is the heart of your question. Do you want fine wire plugs or an Ipad? -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 6:12 AM, Sean Stephens wrote: > > Late to the party on this, but wanted to ask. > > For the dual mag crowd like me... Is just using the fine wires on the > bottom six a matter of $$$ and most benefit? If so and the $$$ were not an > issue would you run on the top six also? > > -Sean #40303 (Closing in on 200 hrs in N428RV) > >> Bill Watson >> August 23, 2017 at 12:13 PM >> >> Thanks Tim! >> >> I went back and read the plug info on your site. I'm thinking that my >> best option may be to put (6) fine wires on the bottom and stay with the >> Champions on top. I have enough to take me through another round of >> changes. Rotation will be a bit different so will have to think about that. >> >> Generally speaking I've been very happy with dual mags, LOP running and >> all. Having examined the plugs thru several cycles of rotation and a >> replacement round, I've become even more aggressive leaning on the ground, >> especially when in a conga line like the short one we had at Triple Tree a >> few days ago. Keeping the RPMs over 1,000 at all times seems to help as >> well. I clean and gap as required at every annual as well. Having never >> flown with any electronic ignition, I'm very satisfied in my ignorance. >> >> A note for dual mag, massive electrode owners: I was doing everything 'on >> condition' up thru about 1200 hours. Then I exchanged the mags for >> rebuilts and changed any remaining original plugs to new. Engine ran >> noticeably smoother and probably put out more power. I'll be doing more >> replacing and exchanging based on time going forward. >> >> (OT) I read your 2015 Bahama trip - our first Bahama trip in 2012 >> involved the exact same itinerary! I did my first Bonefishing while on >> Andros, always stop at Staniel for a 'burger, and incidentally joined up >> with an AOPA group at Fernandez Bay. We had a 2 story rental there that >> came with a resident cat(!) and a frog living in the fresh air toilet. >> Been back several times to other islands since... Love It All! Went to >> the Turks & Caicos and even the BVIs but there's really no need to go >> beyond the Bahamas which is by far the most accommodating to pilots. >> >> Bill "always looking forward to the next out island bonefishing >> experience" Watson >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dlm <dlm34077(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 13, 2017
Subject: RTW
CA to HI starts with headwind usually north of 30N and route goes south of 30N about mid trip. Some single engine ferry flights to HI and beyond have ditched short of HI when the tailwind did not meet expectations. ERAU Prescott AZ had a seminar one evening of a ferry flight for a Cirrus to Sydney. The Cirrus took off from KSFO about 2000 over gross; crossed 30N and made it to HI and beyond. Took a physical geography course at a local college in 2015 and the global air circulation patterns indicate in the Northern hemisphere that between 30N and 60N the prevailing winds at all altitudes below about FL400 are from the west and that the prevailing winds from the equator to 30N are from the East. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2017
From: Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RTW
Thanks very much for that Dave; I certainly wasn't aware of the low level r eversal. On Wednesday, 13 September 2017, 16:12, dlm wrote: CA to HI starts with headwind usually north of 30N and route goes south of 30N about mid trip. Some single engine ferry flights to HI=C2- and beyon d have ditched short of HI when the tailwind did not meet expectations. ERA U Prescott AZ had a seminar one evening of a ferry flight for a Cirrus to S ydney. The Cirrus took off from KSFO about 2000 over gross; crossed 30N and made it to HI and beyond. Took a physical geography course at a local coll ege in 2015 and the global air circulation patterns indicate in the Norther n hemisphere that between 30N and 60N the prevailing winds at all altitudes below about FL400 are from the west and that the prevailing winds from the equator to 30N are from the East. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2017
From: Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RTW
Thanks very much for that Dave; I certainly wasn't aware of the low level r eversal. On Wednesday, 13 September 2017, 16:12, dlm wrote: CA to HI starts with headwind usually north of 30N and route goes south of 30N about mid trip. Some single engine ferry flights to HI=C2- and beyon d have ditched short of HI when the tailwind did not meet expectations. ERA U Prescott AZ had a seminar one evening of a ferry flight for a Cirrus to S ydney. The Cirrus took off from KSFO about 2000 over gross; crossed 30N and made it to HI and beyond. Took a physical geography course at a local coll ege in 2015 and the global air circulation patterns indicate in the Norther n hemisphere that between 30N and 60N the prevailing winds at all altitudes below about FL400 are from the west and that the prevailing winds from the equator to 30N are from the East. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RTW
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Date: Sep 14, 2017
Not so much a reversal if you think up from the surface where what has traditionally been known as the trade winds follow this pattern worldwide - east and west, north and south. Above the 30s north and south the winds tend to be westerly, towards the equator they tend to go east. The westerlies are king, the eastern winds princes and no dominant winds go north or south. The think that is some version of sailing stuff but I don't sail. Above 40,000 might as well be space in our craft. Bill "I like reading about sailing ship stuff" Watson On 9/13/2017 4:28 AM, Rodger Todd wrote: > Thanks very much for that Dave; I certainly wasn't aware of the low > level reversal. > > > On Wednesday, 13 September 2017, 16:12, dlm wrote: > > > CA to HI starts with headwind usually north of 30N and route goes > south of 30N about mid trip. Some single engine ferry flights to HI > and beyond have ditched short of HI when the tailwind did not meet > expectations. ERAU Prescott AZ had a seminar one evening of a ferry > flight for a Cirrus to Sydney. The Cirrus took off from KSFO about > 2000 over gross; crossed 30N and made it to HI and beyond. > Took a physical geography course at a local college in 2015 and the > global air circulation patterns indicate in the Northern hemisphere > that between 30N and 60N the prevailing winds at all altitudes below > about FL400 are from the west and that the prevailing winds from the > equator to 30N are from the East. > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dlm <dlm34077(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 14, 2017
Subject: RTW
check https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/learn-about-the-weather/how-weather-works/global-circulation-patterns The web site addresses the air circulation patterns of the Hadley cell, Ferrel cell and Polar cell ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
From: "William Davis" <flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 18, 2017
William Davis wrote: > I built a RV6A and need 4 seats now. Looking for a rv10 project. Please let me know what you have. Flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com > > Thanks > Bill[/list] I'm still looking for a RV10 project. Please email me if you've got a project you're looking to sell or trade for a mint RV6A. Thanks Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472995#472995 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2267_298.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2017
From: Steven Dinieri <pullbacknow(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
Bill I have a 10 that's well on its way to completion. I will be offering i t up for sale.I have built 3 rv6a's in the past. The 10 doesn't meet my mis sion profile any longer. I have considered finishing it and then selling, b ut i'd rather put the time and energy into finishing a 6a or 7a project.=C2 -If anyone is aware of a stalled or partially built project for sale ( RV 6A or 7A ) please let me know. Steve On Monday, September 18, 2017 4:46 PM, William Davis wrote: William Davis wrote: > I built a RV6A and need 4 seats now.=C2- Looking for a rv10 project.=C2 - Please let me know what you have.=C2- Flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com > > Thanks > Bill[/list] I'm still looking for a RV10 project.=C2- Please email me if you've got a project you're looking to sell or trade for a mint RV6A. Thanks Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472995#472995 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2267_298.jpg S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2017
Ive been thinking of selling mine. > On Sep 18, 2017, at 1:36 PM, William Davis wrote: > > > > William Davis wrote: >> I built a RV6A and need 4 seats now. Looking for a rv10 project. Please let me know what you have. Flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com >> >> Thanks >> Bill[/list] > > > > I'm still looking for a RV10 project. Please email me if you've got a project you're looking to sell or trade for a mint RV6A. > > Thanks > Bill > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472995#472995 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2267_298.jpg > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Kitlog
From: "jaybhansen" <jaybhansen(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2017
I understand that the owner has had a stroke. I wish the best. But in the meantime, has anyone taken over Kitpro? I had issues with windows 10 for a couple of months, but the fix was posted on the Kitlog page (thanks). Now, I can't load my database and I am getting no response from Kitlog emails and/or phone calls. Does anyone have any information? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473065#473065 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Orre" <s51flyer(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Kitlog
Date: Sep 22, 2017
I had similar login issues with Windows 10 each time MS pushed a W10 update. I followed Matt's instructions in the attachment each time Kitlog couldn't load the DB after a W10 update. It's worked twice for me. Seems to be a conflict with .NET Framework. I made sure to copy the DB, twice, just in case. Note, this was based upon my specific reported issue of Kitlog simply not loading and giving the following error: I am using W10, 64bit. Bob O. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybhansen Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:37 AM Subject: RV10-List: Kitlog I understand that the owner has had a stroke. I wish the best. But in the meantime, has anyone taken over Kitpro? I had issues with windows 10 for a couple of months, but the fix was posted on the Kitlog page (thanks). Now, I can't load my database and I am getting no response from Kitlog emails and/or phone calls. Does anyone have any information? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473065#473065 Received: from dnvrco-pub-iedge-vip.email.rr.com ([107.14.70.244]) by dnvrco-fep22.email.rr.com (InterMail vM.8.04.03.24 201-2389-100-172-20151028) with ESMTP id <20170610183427.CJOC5597.dnvrco-fep22.email.rr.com@dnvrco-pub-iedge-vip.email.rr.com> Received: from [96.68.171.4] ([96.68.171.4:34343] helo=matronics.com) by dnvrco-imsmta08 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.9.48312 r(Core:3.6.9.0)) with ESMTPS (cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA) Received: from Romanova.kitlog.com (romanova.matronics.com [96.68.171.5]) by matronics.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id v5AIYJwN009670; From: "Kitlog Pro Support" <support(at)kitlog.com> Cc: References: <000201d2db15$9fd3a6d0$df7af470$@wi.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <000201d2db15$9fd3a6d0$df7af470$@wi.rr.com> Subject: Re: FW: Kitlog Pro Start-up Error Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:33:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D333A5.8D6B5B80" Thread-Index: AQIpoWinwWmqShfMxlzM3d8vxcj7cQHexFB+ This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D333A5.8D6B5B80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01D333A5.8D6B5B80" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01D333A5.8D6B5B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob, Carefully follow these steps and you should be back in business: 1) Use Windows 10 Apps & Features to Uninstall the .NET1.1 installation. 2) Reboot your computer. 3) Download this .NET deep cleaning utility. Be sure to select the ".NET Framework 1.1" option pull down under "Product to cleanup". <http://www.kitlog.com/dls/DotNETCleanupTool.exe> http://www.kitlog.com/dls/DotNETCleanupTool.exe 4) Reboot your computer. 5) Start Kitlog. 6) If/when prompted to download and install .NET 3.5 (2.0): Accept and let it do the install. 7) Successfully start Kitlog now. Best regards, Matt Dralle At 01:28 PM 6/1/2017 Thursday, you wrote: Hi, Sorry to bother again, but I haven=92t been able to log build time since the end of April. Any suggestions would be helpful. Tks, Bob Orre=85 From: Bob Orre [ <mailto:s51flyer(at)wi.rr.com> mailto:s51flyer(at)wi.rr.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 5:56 AM Subject: RE: Kitlog Pro Start-up Error Hi, Just wondering if you guys have any ideas what might be causing this error? I did a complete uninstall and reinstall, and that did not get rid of the error message. I cannot use the application at all, so I=92ve been accumulating a little over a week=92s worth of builder=92s entries. I=92ve also checked online blog to see what this error is caused by, and from what I can gather, while it is rather prevalent, the resolutions are application specific. I=92m not experiencing any issues with any of my other applications, since the Windows 10 update. Any help is appreciated. Tks, Bob Orre=85 From: Bob Orre [mailto:s51flyer(at)wi.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 8:16 AM > Subject: Kitlog Pro Start-up Error Hi, Windows 10 pushed an update yesterday. I=92m now receiving the following error when starting Kitlog. I did try a reinstall using the =93repair=94 option in the Kitlog Installer, but I received the same error. I checked compatibility settings, and they are set as suggested by Tech Support. Do I need to do a complete uninstall and reinstall? I am running 64bit Windows 10. Any suggestions are helpful. Tks, Bob=85 Matt Dralle Matronics / Kitlog Pro Support Technical Support | Kitlog | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | support(at)kitlog.com Email <http://www.kitlog.com/> http://www.kitlog.com WWW | Aircraft Construction Log Applications ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01D333A5.8D6B5B80 Content-Type: text/html; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="=====================_310364769==.REL"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bob,

Carefully follow these steps and you should be back in business:

1) Use Windows 10 Apps & Features to Uninstall the .NET1.1 installation.

2) Reboot your computer.

3) Download this .NET deep cleaning utility. Be sure to select the ".NET Framework 1.1" option pull down under "Product to cleanup".

http://www.kitlog.com/dls/DotNETCleanupTool.exe>
4) Reboot your computer.

5) Start Kitlog.

6) If/when prompted to download and install .NET 3.5 (2.0): Accept and let it do the install.

7) Successfully start Kitlog now.

Best regards,

Matt Dralle

At 01:28 PM 6/1/2017 Thursday, you wrote:

Hi,

Sorry to bother again, but I haven’t been able to log build time since the end of April. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Tks,

Bob Orre…

From: Bob Orre [ mailto:s51flyer(at)wi.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 5:56 AM
To: 'support(at)kitlog.com' <support(at)kitlog.com>
Subject: RE: Kitlog Pro Start-up Error

Hi,

Just wondering if you guys have any ideas what might be causing this error? I did a complete uninstall and reinstall, and that did not get rid of the error message. I cannot use the application at all, so I’ve been accumulating a little over a week’s worth of builder’s entries.

I’ve also checked online blog to see what this error is caused by, and from what I can gather, while it is rather prevalent, the resolutions are application specific. I’m not experiencing any issues with any of my other applications, since the Windows 10 update.

Any help is appreciated.

Tks,

Bob Orre…

From: Bob Orre [mailto:s51flyer(at)wi.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 8:16 AM
To: 'support(at)kitlog.com' <support(at)kitlog.com>
Subject: Kitlog Pro Start-up Error

Hi,

Windows 10 pushed an update yesterday. I’m now receiving the following error when starting Kitlog.

I did try a reinstall using the “repair” option in the Kitlog Installer, but I received the same error. I checked compatibility settings, and they are set as suggested by Tech Support. Do I need to do a complete uninstall and reinstall?

I am running 64bit Windows 10.

Any suggestions are helpful.

Tks,

Bob…

Matt Dralle
Matronics / Kitlog Pro Support

Technical Support | Kitlog | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | support(at)kitlog.com Email
http://www.kitlog.com> WWW | Aircraft Construction Log Applications

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AHpvWbDCKAgogYBT3sI/SnAIPoAACEhFQKXiltXoHatrUiGFHRBQCgFP700KV4pT8AMEQEAKAiRq tVrN9d6QtxQ8YQMEFERA0Dbb1dVlNpt/uP24glyDKyAAAjdH4Ohvf0DBOf8PDMqsijcvrikAAAAA SUVORK5CYII ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D333A5.8D6B5B80-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: Kitlog
Date: Sep 22, 2017
It probably requires an older version of .net. I'm not at home or I would look it up. Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronic s.com> on behalf of Bob Orre Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 1:20:25 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitlog I had similar login issues with Windows 10 each time MS pushed a W10 update . I followed Matt's instructions in the attachment each time Kitlog couldn 't load the DB after a W10 update. It's worked twice for me. Seems to be a conflict with .NET Framework. I made sure to copy the DB, twice, just in case. Note, this was based upon my specific reported issue of Kitlog simply not l oading and giving the following error: [[]] I am using W10, 64bit. Bob O. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybhansen Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:37 AM Subject: RV10-List: Kitlog I understand that the owner has had a stroke. I wish the best. But in the meantime, has anyone taken over Kitpro? I had issues with windows 10 for a couple of months, but the fix was posted on the Kitlog page (thanks). No w, I can't load my database and I am getting no response from Kitlog emails and/or phone calls. Does anyone have any information? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473065#473065 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2017
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Kitlog
Simple fix for this. Look at Q1/A1 here: http://www.kitlog.com/Windows10 Matt Dralle At 11:55 AM 9/22/2017 Friday, you wrote: >It probably requires an older version of .net. I'm not at home or I would look it up. > >Get Outlook for iOS > >---------- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bob Orre >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 1:20:25 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitlog > >I had similar login issues with Windows 10 each time MS pushed a W10 update. I followed Matt's instructions in the attachment each time Kitlog couldn't load the DB after a W10 update. It's worked twice for me. Seems to be a conflict with .NET Framework. I made sure to copy the DB, twice, just in case. > >Note, this was based upon my specific reported issue of Kitlog simply not loading and giving the following error: > >[] > > >I am using W10, 64bit. > >Bob O. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybhansen >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:37 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Kitlog > > >I understand that the owner has had a stroke. I wish the best. But in the meantime, has anyone taken over Kitpro? I had issues with windows 10 for a couple of months, but the fix was posted on the Kitlog page (thanks). Now, I can't load my database and I am getting no response from Kitlog emails and/or phone calls. Does anyone have any information? > > > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473065#473065 > > > > > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wtb: RV10 project
From: "William Davis" <flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 23, 2017
Please email me about your projects. Flyhigh77777(at)gmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473098#473098 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nose gear shimmy
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Sep 23, 2017
I just started getting some severe nose gear shimmy after 400 hours of flying. I figured it best to deconstruct my nose gear to bird-dog the problem from the ground up. I removed the wheel and raised the nose gear off of the ground using an eye bolt in the floor of my hanger. First off, I am getting a new front tire that I will balance before I install it. But as I moved up the gear leg, I noticed that there is about 1/16" of play in my gear leg in the horizontal axis. This translates to 1/4"of play at the nose wheel. There were quite a few posts about under sized bushings in the gear leg attach point a few years ago, but this is NOT the problem. My gear leg bushings are nice and tight to the ears of the gear leg. The problem is that the "ears" are too far from the "hole" on the engine mount. Could this be the problem that is causing my shimmy? Is there a remedy or should I just forget it, and why did this not cause a problem before. Has anyone else encountered this issue and how did you resolve it? -------- See you OSH '18 Q/B - flying 8 yrs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473099#473099 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4239_103.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 23, 2017
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
Standby for other responses, but probably just need to tighten the nose strut by adding a shim to the elastomers. That's about the time when they start to compress. Marcus > On Sep 23, 2017, at 9:30 AM, AirMike wrote: > > > I just started getting some severe nose gear shimmy after 400 hours of flying. I figured it best to deconstruct my nose gear to bird-dog the problem from the ground up. I removed the wheel and raised the nose gear off of the ground using an eye bolt in the floor of my hanger. First off, I am getting a new front tire that I will balance before I install it. > But as I moved up the gear leg, I noticed that there is about 1/16" of play in my gear leg in the horizontal axis. This translates to 1/4"of play at the nose wheel. > There were quite a few posts about under sized bushings in the gear leg attach point a few years ago, but this is NOT the problem. My gear leg bushings are nice and tight to the ears of the gear leg. The problem is that the "ears" are too far from the "hole" on the engine mount. Could this be the problem that is causing my shimmy? Is there a remedy or should I just forget it, and why did this not cause a problem before. Has anyone else encountered this issue and how did you resolve it? > > -------- > See you OSH '18 > Q/B - flying 8 yrs. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473099#473099 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4239_103.jpg > > > > > > . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 23, 2017
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
Interesting. I'm getting ready to dig into mine a bit more because I suspect a similar issue. Going over a bump or lowering the nose to the runway usually results in a pretty good thump and my ears tell me there's some slack somewhere in the system that I need to find. Regarding the ears, is it possible to ship the gap with washers so the ears fit tight? Haven't looked at mine yet. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 23, 2017, at 10:30 AM, AirMike wrote: > > > I just started getting some severe nose gear shimmy after 400 hours of flying. I figured it best to deconstruct my nose gear to bird-dog the problem from the ground up. I removed the wheel and raised the nose gear off of the ground using an eye bolt in the floor of my hanger. First off, I am getting a new front tire that I will balance before I install it. > But as I moved up the gear leg, I noticed that there is about 1/16" of play in my gear leg in the horizontal axis. This translates to 1/4"of play at the nose wheel. > There were quite a few posts about under sized bushings in the gear leg attach point a few years ago, but this is NOT the problem. My gear leg bushings are nice and tight to the ears of the gear leg. The problem is that the "ears" are too far from the "hole" on the engine mount. Could this be the problem that is causing my shimmy? Is there a remedy or should I just forget it, and why did this not cause a problem before. Has anyone else encountered this issue and how did you resolve it? > > -------- > See you OSH '18 > Q/B - flying 8 yrs. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473099#473099 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4239_103.jpg > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 24, 2017
I never had any nose shimmy with my RV-10 for 5 years. Then, my new partners wanted to change from a Corvette engine to a Lycoming 540. We used a new engine mount, and a new engine. Everything firewall forward was new. The shimmy started on the first flight. I am skeptical of assumptions that it's something to do with the wheel or the mount. I'm leaning toward the 6 cylinder engine, versus a 4 or 8 (like my old corvette LS1). Six cylinder engines are naturally unbalanced. I know the jury is still out on this one, but it seems to be just an RV-10 problem. John PS: sorry for the multiple paragraphs, but big photos make looooong lines of text... -------- #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473121#473121 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: "bill.peyton" <peyton.b(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 24, 2017
First, you need to size your photos smaller prior to posting. Several things can cause the nose wheel shimmy. Usually the friction nut needs to be retightened to take up the slack in the belleville washers. It's tough to over tighten this nut. The second is the axle assembly. If you are using the matco axle, confirm the the wheel is centered in the fork assembly. My original bushings were machines incorrectly and my wheel was not centered. If you are not using the matco axle, you need to order it. Third, the tire provided with the kit is junk and should be replaced with quality tire such as a Goodyear flight custom or Michelin. My kit provided tire was way out of round. The VA144 bushing that you are seeing play in should be installed in such a way that it protrudes from the edge of the gear leg assembly. When you tighten the nut you are tightening against the VA144 bushing. As I recall, washers can be used to take up any play as require. It's been a while, but I recall having to machine a new bushing to get rid of the slop in the gear leg. I'm not in front of the drawings at the moment, so excuse me for lack of assembly part numbers. I have over 700 hours on my 10, and I still get some shimmy, or more of an up down motion, after it sits for a week. It will usually disappear after a long taxi. It occurs around 14 kts. -------- Bill WA0SYV Aviation Partners, LLC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473127#473127 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Sep 24, 2017
Don't know where you got the idea that a 6 cylinder is unbalanced. Six cylinder engines in the 3 most common configurations are very smooth. That would be flat six, V6, and straight 6. I've driven all 3 in auto applications---Ford straight six from the 50s, Corvair flat 6, and a GM V-6 in a Jeep. (BMW straight and V-6s are some of the smoothest engines around). Big 4 cyl car engines are either very rough (Pontiac Tempest 194) or have balance shafts. Lycoming perhaps doesn't use a cam design to be as smooth at low speed as it could be. Continental 6 cylinders are very smooth, if somewhat heavy. Six cylinder engines fire every 120 degrees for a very smooth output. Four cylinders fire either every 90 or 180 degrees and for all but the under 2 liter sizes need a balance shaft to smooth them out. V-8s fire every 90 degrees and have enough cylinders to create balance the 4s do not have. OTOH, Lycoming 4 cylinder engines are about as unbalanced as it gets. Big six cylinder engines like the 540 and the big Continentals run smoother with a 3 blade prop than 2 blade..but I am not suggesting a 3 blade would make any difference in shimmy. 3 blades are a PITA for removing the lower cowling, and most cost 3-5 kts in cruise, while climbing better than 2 blade. There likely are some explanations in the Lycoming Dynafocal engine mounts and how that interacts with the nose gear, but it isn't the engine smoothness. On 9/24/2017 5:46 AM, johngoodman wrote: > > I never had any nose shimmy with my RV-10 for 5 years. Then, my new partners wanted to change from a > Corvette engine to a Lycoming 540. We used a new engine mount, and a new engine. > Everything firewall forward was new. The shimmy started on the first flight. I am skeptical of assumptions that it's something to do > with the wheel or the mount. I'm leaning toward the 6 cylinder engine, versus a 4 or 8 (like my old corvette LS1). > Six cylinder engines are naturally unbalanced. I know the jury is still out on this one, but it seems to be just an RV-10 problem. > John > PS: sorry for the multiple paragraphs, but big photos make looooong lines of text... > > -------- > #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473121#473121 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 25, 2017
I think it has to do with the piston reversing directions without a power stroke, but I'm no expert. But, the "wet dog shimmy" is very noticeable. John -------- #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473137#473137 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2017
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
Every 4 cycle engine regardless of number of cylinders has a non-power stroke. How much heavier was that LS1 engine? Perhaps that has something to do with the shimmy or not. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:01 AM, johngoodman wrote: > > I think it has to do with the piston reversing directions without a power > stroke, but I'm no expert. But, the "wet dog shimmy" is very noticeable. > John > > -------- > #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473137#473137 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 25, 2017
> Every 4 cycle engine regardless of number of cylinders has a non-power stroke.How much heavier was that LS1 engine? Perhaps that has something to do with the shimmy or not. > The LS1 was 15 pounds lighter than an IO-540 - it's Aluminum. John -------- #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473139#473139 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2017
Interesting...does that include weight of radiator and coolant? On 9/25/2017 7:36 AM, johngoodman wrote: > > >> Every 4 cycle engine regardless of number of cylinders has a non-power stroke.How much heavier was that LS1 engine? Perhaps that has something to do with the shimmy or not. >> > > > The LS1 was 15 pounds lighter than an IO-540 - it's Aluminum. > John > > -------- > #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473139#473139 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 25, 2017
It included the radiator, but not the coolant. It used a little less than 2 gallons of water. However, it only needed 5 quarts of oil, plus 2/10ths for the oil filter. The prop was 2.5 inches further forward, so I had to compensate with some ballast to bring the nose weight to normal. You can't buy an LS1 anymore, so most folks are using the LS3. It's close, but lots more horsepower. Frankly, the additional power is a mixed blessing, since you can't use it with the Vne limits we have. John -------- #40572 Phase One complete in 2011 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473142#473142 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Kitlog
From: "jaybhansen" <jaybhansen(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 26, 2017
Upon some digging, I found out that I still had .net 1.1. When I installed version 3.5, I could open and load my database. However, not I find that I can't upload to my builders webpage. Any ideas there? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473157#473157 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)planearound.com>
Date: Sep 29, 2017
I agree with Bill, you need something like 20-25 lbs of breakout force on the nut and belleville washers. It states the correct number in the Vans' plans. I also agree with Kelly, I haven't had any nose wheel shimmy with my IO-540. I'm thinking engine preference is not the issue. You might stick a camera on your tie-down mounts and make sure its the nose and not the mains. If it is the nose it is either the belleville washers, the axle or the play in the bushings on the nose landing gear mount/engine mount. I had to make new bushings that had better tolerance than vans' bushings. -------- 40936 RV-10 SB N801VR Flying 780 Hours SuperSTOL 60 hours Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473195#473195 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Sep 29, 2017
On the RV-14 (Same nose gear as the -10) I could swear that the original plans had it bumped up to 35lbs of breakout. I just checked the plans now though and they list 26lbs. I would say stay on the high side of Sean's numbers, not the low. By the time it gets down to 20 it's going to be pretty loose. And, they wear in pretty quick, so after your first flight, check it before 50 hours, and then check it again at maybe 100. After that it should be more stable. Tim On 9/29/2017 9:32 PM, Strasnuts wrote: > > I agree with Bill, you need something like 20-25 lbs of breakout force on the nut and belleville washers. It states the correct number in the Vans' plans. > > I also agree with Kelly, I haven't had any nose wheel shimmy with my IO-540. I'm thinking engine preference is not the issue. > > You might stick a camera on your tie-down mounts and make sure its the nose and not the mains. If it is the nose it is either the belleville washers, the axle or the play in the bushings on the nose landing gear mount/engine mount. I had to make new bushings that had better tolerance than vans' bushings. > > -------- > 40936 > RV-10 SB N801VR Flying > 780 Hours > SuperSTOL 60 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Major Upgrade to Airport Courtesy Cars Site-Please Read.
From: "gbrasch" <airportcars101(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 01, 2017
If you are a user of the Airport Courtesy Cars site, I would like to inform you of a major upgrade and improvement. Effective mid December, A.C.C.'s will be fully web based, and will continue to be a secure site. Many of you over the past couple of years have asked for these improvements, the biggest user request being the site does not work on certain devices. By converting A.C.C's to a web based site, the advantage is clear, the site will now work on any device. Also, there is no possibility of bugs or crashes like an app. The information will be the same. During this transition period, it is important for you to bookmark the web address on your device so your service remains uninterrupted. For further information, click on the large red banner on the main page of the site, or here: https://www.airportcourtesycars.com/app-update.html -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Flying Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret) Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Website www.airportcourtesycars.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473225#473225 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Kitlog
From: "jaybhansen" <jaybhansen(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 02, 2017
Well for some reason, I can now update. Now I have two different DB's on line. Any idea how I can delete the bad one? It only has a partial DB. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473266#473266 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Dave Saylor and acts of kindness
Date: Oct 03, 2017
As you might remember, last December I was diagnosed with Stage IV Lung Cancer (never smoked a day in my life). That, and the two brain tumors that came with it abruptly ended my flying career and forced a long and painful goodbye to N410CF that I had finished building a year earlier. I put out a call to the list and had many offers of help and advice. The most significant help came from Dave Saylor and his plane partner Jim in the form of a 2 day visit back in March when they flew down to CCB in their RV10. With me propped up in a chair recovering from brain surgery on their own time and on their own dime (including car rental and hotel) they performed a complete annual on the plane. And, when it was all over, organized and swept up the hangar. The only payment they accepted from me was lunch. A few weeks later, I asked Dave if he was interested in helping me sell the plane. He talked it over with his family and said yes. In late May, he and Jim flew down again. Dave gave me one last ride in N410CF (this time from the right seat) and I said a tearful goodbye to my baby as I watched Dave fly her away. Over the ensuing months, Dave methodically prepped the plane for sale, ran the ads, gave demo rides and negotiated the deal on my behalf. On September 22, escrow closed. N410CF has found a new home and I have a large chunk of cash that will help us buy our new home. At a time when all of my life was crashing down around me, Dave's help has brought me immeasurable comfort and peace of mind. It is important to know that with so much bad in the world, there are people like Dave who are so good. Jeff Carpenter N410CF Sold ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 03, 2017
Subject: Nose gear oversized bushing info
I am in the process of cleaning up some slop in my nose gear and wanted to get these part numbers listed in the archives for future builders/pilots. Vans sells oversized bushings for the VA-143 and VA-144 bushings supplied with the kit. Theyre difficult to find in the system, so I want to give you the details that will help. VA-143 Replacement BUSH-ST 438X780X1.938 VA-144 Replacement BUSH-ST 313X780X1.563 One last thing, for those recently ending phase 1... Like Tim mentioned its a good idea to check your breakout force for your nose wheel. The plans call for 26 pounds when pulled at the axel. I checked mine at approximately 44 hours and mine was down to 5 pounds. So its a good idea to check those and tighten them up sometime in a middle of Phase 1. Phil Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 03, 2017
Subject: Re: Nose gear oversized bushing info
And I found the VA-143 oversized replacement (.780) is too big for my application. But the standard (.750) is too small and allows too much slop. Next step is to use a snap gauge to take some ID measurements and then machine down the .780 to fit. Im guessing about .002 clearance is good? Anyone who has machined their own have any suggestions on how much clearance theyve found success with? Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Phillip Perry wrote: > > > I am in the process of cleaning up some slop in my nose gear and wanted to get these part numbers listed in the archives for future builders/pilots. > > Vans sells oversized bushings for the VA-143 and VA-144 bushings supplied with the kit. Theyre difficult to find in the system, so I want to give you the details that will help. > > VA-143 Replacement > BUSH-ST 438X780X1.938 > > VA-144 Replacement > BUSH-ST 313X780X1.563 > > One last thing, for those recently ending phase 1... Like Tim mentioned its a good idea to check your breakout force for your nose wheel. The plans call for 26 pounds when pulled at the axel. I checked mine at approximately 44 hours and mine was down to 5 pounds. So its a good idea to check those and tighten them up sometime in a middle of Phase 1. > > Phil > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dave Saylor and acts of kindness
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>
Date: Oct 03, 2017
Jeff, I've had the good fortune of meeting Dave thru this forum, and, finally, a few weeks ago, in person. You're right, he's one of the good guys. For the record, I'm the cfi Dave put the new owner in touch with, for a basic vfr checkout. He and 410CF flew just fine, although he will need additional study to get up to speed on all the things a modern glass panel can do. He and his young wife (at my age nearly everyone seems young -:) ) were very excited about owning a 'traveling' airplane. I hope it brings you some comfort, to know that your plane has found a good home. Bob -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473298#473298 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2017
From: Bruce Johnson <bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dave Saylor and acts of kindness
Thank you for the heart warming story about how great some people are. Sorr y that you have to go through what you are dealing with. Good luck and God Speed. =C2-God Bless America (please) =C2-:) Bruce On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:26 AM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: As you might remember, last December I was diagnosed with Stage IV Lung Can cer (never smoked a day in my life). That, and the two brain tumor=99 s that came with it abruptly ended my flying career and forced a long and p ainful goodbye to N410CF that I had finished building a year earlier. I put out a call to the list and had many offers of help and advice. The most significant help came from Dave Saylor and his plane partner Jim i n the form of a 2 day visit back in March when they flew down to CCB in the ir RV10.=C2- With me propped up in a chair recovering from brain surgery on their own time and on their own dime=C2- (including car rent al and hotel) they performed a complete annual on the plane. And, when it w as all over, organized and swept up the hangar.=C2- The only payment they accepted from me was lunch. A few weeks later, I asked Dave if he was interested in helping me sell the plane. He talked it over with his family and said yes. In late May, he and Jim flew down again. Dave gave me one last ride in N410CF (this time from the right seat) and I said a tearful goodbye to my baby as I watched Dave f ly her away. Over the ensuing months, Dave methodically prepped the plane for sale, ran the ads, gave demo rides and negotiated the deal on my behalf. On September 22, escrow closed. N410CF has found a new home and I have a large chunk of cash that will help us buy our new home. At a time when all of my life was crashing down around me, Dave's help has brought me immeasurable comfort and peace of mind. It is important to know that with so much bad in the world, there are people like Dave who are so g ood. Jeff Carpenter N410CF Sold S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 03, 2017
Subject: Re: Dave Saylor and acts of kindness
Thanks guys, but you're making my throat feel all weird. I'm glad I could help. This list and the RV community have brought me tremendous satisfaction. I love my plane and what I've been able to do and see with it, thanks in no small part to a lot of you guys. So giving back a little is easy. And before you start imagining white, feathery wings sprouting from my back, know that Jeff offered me a fair commission, which after some thought I gladly accepted. So, yeah. Jeff's been inspiring in his attitude and toughness through his battle. He looks and sounds and gets around a lot better these days than he did a year ago. I'm glad I could help and it was all made possible through Matt Dralle's efforts that provide us all with this forum. I hope the new owner pops his head in. He's a good pilot and he'd make a good contributor. --Dave On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > As you might remember, last December I was diagnosed with Stage IV Lung > Cancer (never smoked a day in my life). That, and the two brain tumor =99s > that came with it abruptly ended my flying career and forced a long and > painful goodbye to N410CF that I had finished building a year earlier. I > put out a call to the list and had many offers of help and advice. > > The most significant help came from Dave Saylor and his plane partner Jim > in the form of a 2 day visit back in March when they flew down to CCB in > their RV10. With me propped up in a chair recovering from brain surgery > on their own time and on their own dime (including car rental and hotel) > they performed a complete annual on the plane. And, when it was all over, > organized and swept up the hangar. The only payment they accepted from m e > was lunch. > > A few weeks later, I asked Dave if he was interested in helping me sell > the plane. He talked it over with his family and said yes. In late May, h e > and Jim flew down again. Dave gave me one last ride in N410CF (this time > from the right seat) and I said a tearful goodbye to my baby as I watched > Dave fly her away. > > Over the ensuing months, Dave methodically prepped the plane for sale, ra n > the ads, gave demo rides and negotiated the deal on my behalf. On Septemb er > 22, escrow closed. N410CF has found a new home and I have a large chunk o f > cash that will help us buy our new home. > > At a time when all of my life was crashing down around me, Dave's help ha s > brought me immeasurable comfort and peace of mind. It is important to kno w > that with so much bad in the world, there are people like Dave who are so > good. > > Jeff Carpenter > N410CF > Sold =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear shimmy
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Oct 05, 2017
Soooooo, I am the original "poster" on this thread. Anyway, I installed (with Epoxy) an eye bolt in the rear concrete floor in my hanger. I raised the nose well off the floor. Then I completely disassembled my front gear and then put it back together. I bought an all new front tire (a Condor tire by Michelin) that my local FBO balanced for me. I did not know that Condor is Michelin's sub brand - might even be the same thing. Made in Thailand by Michelin. It is important to align the little yellow dot with the valve stem to facilitate the balancing. It was a fun but time consuming project. I also did the installation of the AD/SB plate that I had not done (Vans S/B 14-08-29). The big shimmy is gone, but I did have a little bit at about 20-30mph on a rough runway today. But as the shimmy is gone at high speeds, I consider the issue resolved. My vote is that if you have not had shimmy and it develops, consider a new tire and GET IT BALANCED CAREFULLY! -------- See you OSH '18 Q/B - flying 8 yrs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473375#473375 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dave Saylor and acts of kindness
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Oct 05, 2017
Dave, you are a real Mench. That is Yiddish for a really nice person. A special person indeed. -------- See you OSH '18 Q/B - flying 8 yrs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473376#473376 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dave Saylor and acts of kindness
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Date: Oct 06, 2017
It does Bob thank you. > On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:24 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > Jeff, > > I've had the good fortune of meeting Dave thru this forum, and, finally, a few weeks ago, in person. You're right, he's one of the good guys. > > For the record, I'm the cfi Dave put the new owner in touch with, for a basic vfr checkout. He and 410CF flew just fine, although he will need additional study to get up to speed on all the things a modern glass panel can do. He and his young wife (at my age nearly everyone seems young -:) ) were very excited about owning a 'traveling' airplane. > > I hope it brings you some comfort, to know that your plane has found a good home. > > Bob > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473298#473298 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aerosport Overhead Consol
From: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Oct 14, 2017
Hi I just received my GPS antennas from Stein and would like to hide them inside my Aerosport console. This is something others have done *I think*. If so, does anyone have any pix showing how this was accomplished? Cheers Les Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473548#473548 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2017
Subject: Re: Aerosport Overhead Consol
It depends. For an IFR WAAS antenna, I felt it should be like all the factory planes, mounted on the outside, to ensure reception of satellites on the horizon. OTOH, I have my Dynon antenna under the engine cowling, just forward of the firewall. You could also put the antenna on the top of the tail cone, just behind the baggage compartment..gives a better ground plane. It all depends on which type of GPS antenna, whether it needs a certain length of coax, like most of the panel mount GPS require, or is like the Dynon, connected via network cable. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 2:56 PM, kearney wrote: > > Hi > > I just received my GPS antennas from Stein and would like to hide them > inside my Aerosport console. This is something others have done *I think*. > If so, does anyone have any pix showing how this was accomplished? > > Cheers > > Les > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473548#473548 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aerosport Overhead Consol
From: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2017
I have had a non waas antenna mounted under engine cowl in my 6 for 13 years with no dropouts or problems. In my 10 I put them both in the Aerosport overhead. I'm not flying yet but I can tell you that I receive signal and integrity on both receivers when the hangar door is half opened, weird. Not expecting any problems though. I'll try to get some photos. -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473554#473554 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aerosport Overhead Consol
From: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Oct 14, 2017
Hi Kelly If the fiberglass and non-metallic paint don't interfere with the GPS signal, why not keep them safe and dry in the interior - and get a .00005kt speed boost at no extra cost! Cheers Les Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473557#473557

August 11, 2017 - October 14, 2017

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