RV7-Archive.digest.vol-aa
May 13, 2001 - January 05, 2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Welcome To The New RV7 Email Forum... |
This is a first message to the RV7 List. Welcome!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/17/01 |
Hello! I'm about 75% through with the empennage of my
RV-7, and I was wondering if there is anyone else out
there working on one. I've got the VS, HS, and rudder
done. Just the elevator left. Anyone there?
Also, I want to reserve an N number. Anyone know how
I go about doing that?
Thanks!
Scott
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Powers" <gpowers14(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/17/01 |
Hey Scott:
Just getting started on mine; working on the HS forward spar. We have here
at Lubbock Intl 7 flying RV's and 7 building including two 7A's.
Gary Powers
Lubbock
----- Original Message -----
From: scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/17/01
>
> Hello! I'm about 75% through with the empennage of my
> RV-7, and I was wondering if there is anyone else out
> there working on one. I've got the VS, HS, and rudder
> done. Just the elevator left. Anyone there?
>
> Also, I want to reserve an N number. Anyone know how
> I go about doing that?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
>
> Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
> http://buzz.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Reserving N-numbers |
There's a form you get from the FAA to reserve an N-number. When you do
that, all you're doing is reserving it, not tying it to a specific airplane.
(I've had an N-number reserved for years, and haven't even decided for sure
what to build.)
It costs $15/year, I believe. Whatever it is, it's pretty cheap.
I'd call your local FAA FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) or, better,
the FAA in Oklahoma City, where the N-numbers are handed out. No doubt AOPA
or EAA could send you the form, too.
Rick McCraw
Incipient RV-7 or -7A or -9 or -9A or ...? builder (and Bonanza pilot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/17/01 |
I am trying to finish up the right elevator on my -7. I was just pulling
my hair out over how to get that control horn aligned on the right elevator.
I want to mount the thing on the HS to get all the alignments just right but
I can't because the leading edge bend is not done and I can't bend the
leading edge yet or I won't be able to get in there to buck the rivets and I
don't want to rivet the thing because I want to mount it to the HS to get
every thing aligned first. UGHH. I guess I need to sleep on it.
My wings should be here any day now, and I need to get these elevators
finished.
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 Working on the emp, waiting for the wings
http://phil.petrasoft.net/rv
----- Original Message -----
From: scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/17/01
>
> Hello! I'm about 75% through with the empennage of my
> RV-7, and I was wondering if there is anyone else out
> there working on one. I've got the VS, HS, and rudder
> done. Just the elevator left. Anyone there?
>
> Also, I want to reserve an N number. Anyone know how
> I go about doing that?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
>
> Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
> http://buzz.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tgmosher(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Reserving N-numbers |
N numbers can be reserved on-line - costs $10.00
N-number inquiry: http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/DEFSTD.ASP
N-number registration:
http://registry.faa.gov/frame.htm
The second url may be a little off - my system is not set up correctly (no
MS virtual machine).
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 8:26 PM
Subject: RV7-List: RE: Reserving N-numbers
>
> There's a form you get from the FAA to reserve an N-number. When you do
> that, all you're doing is reserving it, not tying it to a specific
airplane.
> (I've had an N-number reserved for years, and haven't even decided for
sure
> what to build.)
>
> It costs $15/year, I believe. Whatever it is, it's pretty cheap.
>
> I'd call your local FAA FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) or,
better,
> the FAA in Oklahoma City, where the N-numbers are handed out. No doubt
AOPA
> or EAA could send you the form, too.
>
> Rick McCraw
> Incipient RV-7 or -7A or -9 or -9A or ...? builder (and Bonanza pilot)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Severance" <ryanseverance(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/17/01 |
>
> Hello! I'm about 75% through with the empennage of my
> RV-7, and I was wondering if there is anyone else out
> there working on one. I've got the VS, HS, and rudder
> done. Just the elevator left. Anyone there?
Sounds like a good time for me to finally jump in....I am working on the -7
empennage also, but a little behind you, Scott. I only have about 50 hours
in so far. I am going to skin the HS tomorrow night though. We'll see how
the first skin goes!
Ryan
RV-7 Empennage
Fargo, ND
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James J. Varney" <jvarney(at)vfpi.com> |
| Subject: | is anyone else out there? |
Hello Scott.
I'm working on the 7a HS now. Got about 50 hours in it.
I too was wondering how many 7s were under construction.
James J Varney
#70162
> From: scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Hello! I'm about 75% through with the empennage of my
> RV-7, and I was wondering if there is anyone else out
> there working on one. I've got the VS, HS, and rudder
> done. Just the elevator left. Anyone there?
>
> Also, I want to reserve an N number. Anyone know how
> I go about doing that?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: is anyone else out there? |
James--I just got my tail kit for a 7A Thursday. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Manual Trim Cable Routing |
The plans show a 5/8" diameter hole in HS602 for the manual trim cable
while the prepunched hole in HS603 is only 7/16" in diameter. I don't
think the hole in HS603 can be drilled any larger without interfering with
the HS609's. I have searched the plans (including the fuselage drawings)
and can't seem to figure out why the difference in hole size.
Can someone help me out?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis1(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | RE: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 06/18/01 SEC: UNCLASSIFIED |
Hullo Scott,
I am in Canberra, Australia and have just finished the empennage in 250 hrs.
The manhours include rework due to my complete absence of metal working
skills and all the fibreglass bits, which are a lot of work. The wings are
being ordered this week for September / October delivery. This means no
building during the ferocious Australian winter, its a fog at 0 degrees C
this morning.
Have fun, David Francis
-----Original Message-----
F
____
From: scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/17/01
Hello! I'm about 75% through with the empennage of my
RV-7, and I was wondering if there is anyone else out
there working on one. I've got the VS, HS, and rudder
done. Just the elevator left. Anyone there?
Also, I want to reserve an N number. Anyone know how
I go about doing that?
Thanks!
Scott
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/
____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)involved.com (Richard Scott) |
| Subject: | is anyone else out there? |
Don't worry, it's just a matter of time...Pretty soon, there will be as
many -7's as there are '6's.
Dick Scott
RV-7
Empannage, gathering tools & building a pole barn to make room to build.
Subject: RV7-List: is anyone else out there?
Hello Scott.
I'm working on the 7a HS now. Got about 50 hours in it.
I too was wondering how many 7s were under construction.
James J Varney
#70162
> From: scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Hello! I'm about 75% through with the empennage of my
> RV-7, and I was wondering if there is anyone else out
> there working on one. I've got the VS, HS, and rudder
> done. Just the elevator left. Anyone there?
>
> Also, I want to reserve an N number. Anyone know how
> I go about doing that?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Slatt <Gary.Slatt(at)gestech.com> |
| Subject: | Fellow RV7 Builder |
Hello,
I to am about 75% completed with my 6A converted to 7A
empennage. Presently working on the right elevator. Not having any
building experience, I've decided to attend a weekend workshop on
"sheet metal basics". Now that I have about 140 hrs of building time under
my belt, I can at least ask somewhat intelligent questions.
I look forward to reading this digest every morning. I'm sure we'll
all learn from each others experiences.
Good Luck and Good Building to all of you.
Gary Slatt (Hummelstown PA)
N438GS (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 06/19/01 |
Ellis,
I can't do any beter than to say that the cable
likely is at more of an angle at HS 602 than 603, so
the hole is larger there. Don't risk damaging the
HS609's by drilling the 603 hole larger. Good luck.
Also, for all the RV-7 folks out there, adjust the
position of the 4th rivet hole from each end of HS610
to maintain an acceptable edge distance on the HS405
flange. If you follow the plans, you may be
fabricating a new flange!
Scotty
> From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy"
>
> Subject: RV7-List: Manual Trim Cable Routing
>
>
>
> The plans show a 5/8" diameter hole in HS602 for the
> manual trim cable
> while the prepunched hole in HS603 is only 7/16" in
> diameter. I don't
> think the hole in HS603 can be drilled any larger
> without interfering with
> the HS609's. I have searched the plans (including
> the fuselage drawings)
> and can't seem to figure out why the difference in
> hole size.
>
> Can someone help me out?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 06/19/01 |
Hi, David!
You may be surprised at how fast you develop
metalworking skills. Best of luck....it's going to be
another hot day on the central coast of California!
Scotty
> From: "Francis, David"
>
> Subject: RV7-List: RE: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs -
> 06/18/01 SEC: UNCLASSIFIED
>
>
>
> Hullo Scott,
> I am in Canberra, Australia and have just finished
> the empennage in 250 hrs.
> The manhours include rework due to my complete
> absence of metal working
> skills and all the fibreglass bits, which are a lot
> of work. The wings are
> being ordered this week for September / October
> delivery. This means no
> building during the ferocious Australian winter, its
> a fog at 0 degrees C
> this morning.
>
> Have fun, David Francis
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 06/18/01 |
Gary,
If you have any questions, let me know. It sounds
as if you'll have a bunch of support locally, though.
Scotty
Santa Maria, CA
> From: "Gary Powers" <gpowers14(at)home.com>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
> 06/17/01
>
>
>
> Hey Scott:
>
> Just getting started on mine; working on the HS
> forward spar. We have here
> at Lubbock Intl 7 flying RV's and 7 building
> including two 7A's.
>
> Gary Powers
> Lubbock
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 06/18/01 |
Thanks, Rick!
> From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
> Subject: RV7-List: RE: Reserving N-numbers
>
>
>
> There's a form you get from the FAA to reserve an
> N-number. When you do
> that, all you're doing is reserving it, not tying it
> to a specific airplane.
> (I've had an N-number reserved for years, and
> haven't even decided for sure
> what to build.)
>
> It costs $15/year, I believe. Whatever it is, it's
> pretty cheap.
>
> I'd call your local FAA FSDO (Flight Standards
> District Office) or, better,
> the FAA in Oklahoma City, where the N-numbers are
> handed out. No doubt AOPA
> or EAA could send you the form, too.
>
> Rick McCraw
> Incipient RV-7 or -7A or -9 or -9A or ...? builder
> (and Bonanza pilot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 06/18/01 |
Phil,
I'm not there yet, but it seems as if you could fab
a temporary set up in your wing jig to get the whole
thing lined up as an assembly. What do you think?
Scotty
> From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
> 06/17/01
>
>
>
> I am trying to finish up the right elevator on my
> -7. I was just pulling
> my hair out over how to get that control horn
> aligned on the right elevator.
> I want to mount the thing on the HS to get all the
> alignments just right but
> I can't because the leading edge bend is not done
> and
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 06/18/01 |
Ryan,
Good luck on the skin. It's not that hard. Be sure
you have a bucking bar that is buffed smooth (use a
scotchbrite wheel) everywhere it will or may touch
your airframe and that it will lay flat against the
skin and orient itself correctly without you looking.
Use elecrical tape as added insurance against scarring
adjacent airframe surfaces when riveting, too.
Scotty
From: "Ryan Severance" <ryanseverance(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
06/17/01
Sounds like a good time for me to finally jump in....I
am working on
the -7
empennage also, but a little behind you, Scott. I
only have about 50
hours
in so far. I am going to skin the HS tomorrow night
though. We'll see
how
the first skin goes!
Ryan
RV-7 Empennage
Fargo, ND
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 06/18/01 |
After I got some sleep I realized that I didn't have to mount the elevator
on the HS with the elevator skin on. I put the rod end bearings in the
spar, mounted the spar to the HS and got the tip ribs lined up. Then I
clecoed the skin on (it overlapped the HS skin) and marked the holes on the
tip rib so I could line it up later in the V-block jig.
I can get the alignment of the control horn in the V-block jig, but I wanted
to check the distance to the bearing with the elevator mounted to the HS. I
am going to have 3/16" - 1/4" of distance between the control horn and the
center HS bearing after I rivet it on. I looked in the archives and it
seems that I am not the first to have that problem and it is easily solved
with washers/spacers.
Now I just need some shop time to go out there and rivet it all together and
then get started on the left one. Maybe tomorrow night.
Phil Birkelbach
Houston, RV-7
Wings any day now
http://phil.petrasoft.net/rv
----- Original Message -----
From: "scott grant" <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 06/18/01
>
> Phil,
> I'm not there yet, but it seems as if you could fab
> a temporary set up in your wing jig to get the whole
> thing lined up as an assembly. What do you think?
>
> Scotty
>
> > From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
> > 06/17/01
> >
> >
> >
> > I am trying to finish up the right elevator on my
> > -7. I was just pulling
> > my hair out over how to get that control horn
> > aligned on the right elevator.
> > I want to mount the thing on the HS to get all the
> > alignments just right but
> > I can't because the leading edge bend is not done
> > and
> === message truncated ===
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Slatt <Gary.Slatt(at)gestech.com> |
| Subject: | Flush Swivel Rivet Set |
Ryan,
Have you heard about the Flush Swivel Rivet Set from Avery Tools?
I bought this tool before pounding skin rivets. It sure does help prevent
dents caused by poor rivet set / skin alignment.
Scotty's right on the mark with the bucking bar preparation. Electrical
tape seems to work well to prevent unwanted nicks and grooves.
Gary Slatt
Hummelstown, Pa
RV-7 Emp (N438GS) Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey Gary,
I pounded my first rivets today! Scrap metal, not real airplane parts, but I
felt good about it. Improved as I went along. Learning what all the tools
do. Went to see the EAA Advisor this afternoon to have him critique my
techniques. He was encouraging.
One tool that is a dream is the pnuematic squeezer. You should see the way
it dimples and flush rivets! The plan is to practice, practice, practice
until I feel competent enough to actually touch a real part.
Hope your project is going well. Are you a QB or standard kit?
John McDonnell (7A QB - getting up to speed on construction techniques)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed.Holland" <cybershrink(at)eircom.net> |
| Subject: | Walter Lom engine |
Hi Listers ,
Im lurking on the RV and zenith lists trying to make a decision which to go
for,speed and range versus stol and local sightseeing.
I hope my questions dont seem too amateurish.
Im interested to know if anyone plans to use this engine in its 6-cyl form
in your plane? and what to expect versus a lycoming in fitting and
performance/reliability. Or is a 4-cyl lycoming likely to give maximum
performance?Higher cruising speed seems to be the main reason to choose an
rv7 versus an rv9,and if so,a walter 337B engine seems attractive to me in
terms of price and potential max cruising speeds,not to mention the 6-cyl
growl! Is there a basic catch in this reasoning that Im missing?
Thanks in advance
Ed [Holland] living in Galway Ireland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Powers" <gpowers14(at)home.com> |
Hey John ....
Congrats on getting started. I've got my HS spars fairly well along and
have now stopped for a couple of weeks. Finally got all the stuff for the
Mooney interior from Airtex and I need to get it installed. Then back to
work on the RV.
I am going to go with a QB. I think in terms of finishing up the RV and
selling the Mooney, that makes more financial sense. I would like to have
it finished and flying for the SW regional EAA Fly In Abilene in September
2002. I think I can get it done.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: <JTAnon(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: RV7-List: It begins!
>
> Hey Gary,
>
> I pounded my first rivets today! Scrap metal, not real airplane parts,
but I
> felt good about it. Improved as I went along. Learning what all the
tools
> do. Went to see the EAA Advisor this afternoon to have him critique my
> techniques. He was encouraging.
>
> One tool that is a dream is the pnuematic squeezer. You should see the
way
> it dimples and flush rivets! The plan is to practice, practice, practice
> until I feel competent enough to actually touch a real part.
>
> Hope your project is going well. Are you a QB or standard kit?
>
> John McDonnell (7A QB - getting up to speed on construction techniques)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Horiz Stab - HS 609 Reinforcing bars |
In the event there is even one builder out there as green as I am, here is a
tip which worked well.
The plans say to radius the HS 609 reinforcing bars so they lay flat on the
HS 603 rear spar web. I thought mine were flat but called my wife to the
workshop for a second opinion. She said, "Why don't you try this?"
"Line the 609 up with the 603 holes. Lightly push straight down on the edge
of the 609 nearest the 603 flange. If the alignment of the holes changes
toward the center, you didn't radius enough."
Tried it, the alignment changed slightly, so I took more material off the 609
edge until it passed her test.
I trust that is not too insignificant to post, and I sincerely hope those of
you who are building will share even the smallest insight to aid
inexperienced newbies like me.
John McD - RV&A QB (learning as I build the emp)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brooks Wolfe <slipstream(at)qwest.net> |
who rv7-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brooks Wolfe <slipstream(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Silly newbie question(s) |
Hi all. Just got started on my RV-7 today (after making jigs and
such).. I lasted the whole day before running into my first stumper!
(Expect a lot more to come). I did take a look through the archives
but didn't find the answer..
So here it is: Why are the HS-411 parts powder-coated by Van's when
they tell you to go ahead and prime them before riveting? It seems a
waste to go sanding off all that powder coat just to get a good prime.
Oh, second silly question: I'm planning on painting the aircraft
rather than have a polished aluminum finish. Does this mean that all
the powder coated hinges should be scotch-brighted? I thought this
would be a question for the very end of the buiding process, but there
it was in the instruction manual: "IF the hinges are to be painted
with the aircraft.." And there I was trying to put finishing details
out of my mind 'till it's actually close to that point!
Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Schlosser" <kevinschlosser(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Silly newbie question(s) |
Hi Brooks (and gang),
Congrats on starting the 7. I envy you. I patiently await my birthday in April
so I can buy my tail kit. Daydreams of flying off to pick up
a buddy and go have fun seem to consume all your spare time driving home
from work and such. I can't wait to get to the rivet smashing and head scratching
:-) My first official 'plane parts' are on their way. A bunch of hatch latches.
I'll be keeping an eye out for your posts with interest.
Now, I have a question for anyone with a 7 that has a finishing kit (are
there any yet???)...
In the great online photo galleries posted by folks taking pictures of the Van's
prototype 7, if you look at the underside of the tip-up you'll see some smart
reinforcing plates riveted between the lower portion of the
'arch weldment' and the top deck with holes and slots cut to relieve them to conform
to the curve of the arch. I've been through my preview plans looking all
over for those pieces to find out if they were a custom touch or a supplied
part. Can't seem to find them anywhere. Anyone know???
Beats the heck out of the old way of sloshing resin, fiberglass, and plywood in
there.
Kevin Schlosser
-< PropellerHead >-
----- Original Message -----
From: Brooks Wolfe
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:44 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Silly newbie question(s)
Hi all. Just got started on my RV-7 today (after making jigs and
such).. I lasted the whole day before running into my first stumper!
(Expect a lot more to come). I did take a look through the archives
but didn't find the answer..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
Ok, I'm about ready to send my order in for the RV7-A empennage kit -
but before I do, how much legroom is there in the airplane. I'm 6' 3"
(but only 160 lbs).
Normally, I fly C152's and C172's - the C152's are a little cramped for
me.
Tom
RV-7A N787RV (I hope).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James D. Ivey" <jim(at)iveylaw.com> |
> Ok, I'm about ready to send my order in for the RV7-A empennage kit -
> but before I do, how much legroom is there in the airplane. I'm 6' 3"
> (but only 160 lbs).
The RV-7 is advertised to have the same general cockpit as the 9A. I sat in
the 9A at Golden West 2000 and was VERY impressed.
I can't fit in a 152 and am even bigger (6'2"/250). The 9A seemed more
comfortable than a 172. It had the sliding canopy and the overhead curtain.
I closed both (the curtains REALLY help in the sun!) and had plenty of
headroom. I don't see any problems for you. I'm leaving for Oshkosh in a
couple hours and I'll take lotsa digital pix. I'll try to get one of me
sitting in a 7 or 9.
One caveat though, I sat in the 9A alone. I suppose I should have sat in it
with 1 more to really test it (for me, cockpit width is an important
consideration). Fortunately for me, my wife is small so we closely
approximate two standard FAA adults on average. ;-)
Regards,
Jim Ivey
jim(at)iveylaw.com
Oakland, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Collins" <steveco(at)houston.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 07/21/01 |
John,
What did you do to prep the hinge brackets for priming? Did you just scuff
them and prime over the whole thing, or was there something else you did to
any exposed steel?
Also,
What did you find was the best way to drill the appropriate sized bolt holes
in the HS-411? Just a 3/16" drill? #12? #13 then ream to 3/16"? or 3/16
and ream to #12?
How tight was the bolt fit?
Thanks,
Steve Collins (RV-7A, finishing HS rear spar)
> From: JTAnon(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV7-List: Hinges
>
>
> Brooks,
>
> I'm a newbie too so don't take my word for gospel, but...
>
> The way I understand it is that the older hinges did not come through
powder
> coated. The instruction to prime in the manual seems to be a holdover
from
> those days. I went ahead and primed anyway. As for the "if they are to
be
> painted...." It's just easier to scuff up the powder coat while the
hinges
> are off the spar. Note that they just want you to break the gloss, not
> remove the powder coat.
>
> John McDonnell (RV 7starting VS)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HS 411 & priming |
Steve,
I'm not at home (on vacation) and I really can't remember what size drill I
used on the 411. My guess would be that I used a 3/16 if that is the size of
the bolt. I do remember that the fit of the bolt in the hole was pretty
tight.
I stewed over the primer issue. Mine is a QB kit so I didn't want to invest
in a gun to spray. In looking at rattle can primers I found some which were
zinc chromate and some which were self etching, but not both qualities in the
same paint. Initially tried the zinchromate from NAPA (7222) but didn't
think it stuck very well and it took forever to dry. Eventually I settled on
NAPA 7220 self etching primer then topcoated things which are not Alclad
(like the 610 & 614) with a marine outboard drive paint also from NAPA (M324)
which is compatible with the primer. Looks great. I don't intend to prime
Alclad parts except where I scratch it.
As far as preperation for priming: I used a spray primer prep/cleaner from
NAPA (can't remember the number but it's listed on the 7220 can. For Alclad
and bare steel that's all I did. For powder coated I scuffed up the gloss
with Scotchbrite, cleaned and primed.
Back to the 411 - It's 25 INCH Pounds to tighten the bolts NOT FOOT pounds.
Guess how I discovered that.
John McDonnell (HS done, VS started)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DrLargo" <DrLargo(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | HS 411 and Priming |
For those of you who had discussed both topics recently here is my
input. The correct drill size for the 411 is a # 12 drill. A 3/16ths
drill is too small, therefore too tight. The decimal equivalent of the
3/16ths drill is .1875 which is the same size as the AN3 bolt. A # 12
drill has a decimal equivalent of .1890 providing just the right
clearance. Regarding primers and metal prep, I use Metal Prep 79
followed by Alodine 1201, then prime with Dupont Vari-Prime...Good
Luck....Linas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas McIntyre <bogeybrother(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS 411 and Priming |
Dr Largo
Interesting observation about a 3/16 bolt not fitting in a 3/16 hole. What
stage of your project are you in and how much building experience do you
have?
Tom
DrLargo wrote:
>
> For those of you who had discussed both topics recently here is my
> input. The correct drill size for the 411 is a # 12 drill. A 3/16ths
> drill is too small, therefore too tight. The decimal equivalent of the
> 3/16ths drill is .1875 which is the same size as the AN3 bolt. A # 12
> drill has a decimal equivalent of .1890 providing just the right
> clearance. Regarding primers and metal prep, I use Metal Prep 79
> followed by Alodine 1201, then prime with Dupont Vari-Prime...Good
> Luck....Linas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
Hello, my name is John Adams. I live in the Seattle area. I have just
received my empennage kit having ordered it and a Quick Build RV 7. My
question regards tool kits. Cleaveland has an "empennage" tool kit for
$672. Do any of you know if this will be adequate for the rest of the QB
project or will I need to get the full meal deal at $ 1600?
Thanks, John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DrLargo" <DrLargo(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Posting Messages |
During the past few days I have not seen many messages posted and I was
wondering if people read the response I received to my one "posting" and
were maybe holding back from posting their own comments or questions, or
maybe you are all busy working on your projects. In any case, I thought
this list was created to share ideas and help each other. I will not
debate my experience or lack thereof, however, I will offer this
comment. When in doubt ask someone. Also...if you have it available,
refer to AC 43-13.1B, the FAA's Advisory Circular for Acceptable Methods
and Practices. There are also many other good references out there.
Good luck building and keep posting comments or questions. That's the
only way we all benefit from this site...Linas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "judy" <judy109(at)infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Posting Messages |
DrLagro, I too was wondering if something was wrong with the way the system
was set up. All I get are 0 messages . Ill keep trying. Howie
----- Original Message -----
From: "DrLargo" <DrLargo(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:42 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Posting Messages
>
> During the past few days I have not seen many messages posted and I was
> wondering if people read the response I received to my one "posting" and
> were maybe holding back from posting their own comments or questions, or
> maybe you are all busy working on your projects. In any case, I thought
> this list was created to share ideas and help each other. I will not
> debate my experience or lack thereof, however, I will offer this
> comment. When in doubt ask someone. Also...if you have it available,
> refer to AC 43-13.1B, the FAA's Advisory Circular for Acceptable Methods
> and Practices. There are also many other good references out there.
> Good luck building and keep posting comments or questions. That's the
> only way we all benefit from this site...Linas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
OK, so I'm slower than everybody else I've been corresponding with. You
guys are really getting ahead of me, so now I can benefit from your
experience and knowledge (all part of my plan!) .... not.
Anyway, on with the question.
Upon assembling my HS skeleton, I found that the 6 degree bends I so
carefully made on HS610 and HS614 did not yield a perfectly fitting angle
to my ribs (HS405 and HS608's ... I think). The bends are too shallow.
There is about a 1/2" gap between HS602 spar channel and HS608 rib when the
forward spar is resting on top of the ribs.
Question is ..... should I try to bend the spar more in a vise, etc.? or
should I simply apply a small amount of pressure and rivet it all together?
I don't want a warp .... either way. I fear if I try to bend it in a vise,
I might get a twist of sorts .... but I equally worry about the spar being
under tension.
What do you guys do? I'm sure everyone doesn't hit this angle / fit
perfectly. uh.....
RV7a, erecting HS Jig,
Ellis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d. wayne stiles" <dwstiles(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/01/01 |
IMHO I think that because the RV-7 list is quite new many potential users
are sticking with the general RV list since that is where many of the
experienced RV builders/fliers are hanging out in an electronic manner. As
more of us get started on our kits and develop problems and solutions unique
to the 7 this list will begin to develop. By the way did anyone else check
out the little turbine engine hung on the RV4 at Oshkosh? W stiles Hoping
to get started this winter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVAWALKER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HS Forward Spar |
Ellis, IF you do not have 610 & 614 riveted to the 602 you should bend them
further. Maybe even drill out the rivets and then rebend. If you would set up
the rear spar and put the 405 ribs on with clamps then set the 602 on the
405's you should have approximately 7 5/8" at the tip. This is shown on the
top left of dwg. 3PP. I believe I made a 6 degree gage with a protractor
(machinist's "Starrett" protractor) and bent them between blocks in a vise.
The gage I made from scrap aluminum.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards, Dale Walker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Forward Spar |
I agree with another poster, you should get the angle correct before
riveting. I have found that a little mistake early on will develop into a
larger and larger mistake if you do not correct it asap.
Working on elevators.
Larry 70047
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:35 AM
Subject: RV7-List: HS Forward Spar
>
> OK, so I'm slower than everybody else I've been corresponding with. You
> guys are really getting ahead of me, so now I can benefit from your
> experience and knowledge (all part of my plan!) .... not.
>
> Anyway, on with the question.
>
> Upon assembling my HS skeleton, I found that the 6 degree bends I so
> carefully made on HS610 and HS614 did not yield a perfectly fitting angle
> to my ribs (HS405 and HS608's ... I think). The bends are too shallow.
> There is about a 1/2" gap between HS602 spar channel and HS608 rib when
the
> forward spar is resting on top of the ribs.
>
> Question is ..... should I try to bend the spar more in a vise, etc.? or
> should I simply apply a small amount of pressure and rivet it all
together?
> I don't want a warp .... either way. I fear if I try to bend it in a
vise,
> I might get a twist of sorts .... but I equally worry about the spar being
> under tension.
>
> What do you guys do? I'm sure everyone doesn't hit this angle / fit
> perfectly. uh.....
>
> RV7a, erecting HS Jig,
>
> Ellis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com |
Hi guys--this is my first experience with the list. My question:
In reviewing the RV-7 preview plans Van recommends (among others) that a new
primer called TEMPO brand Chromate in a spray can be used. Does anyone have
any experience in using this for the primer on their project? With the size
of my work area it seems this would be an easier way to go if it is an
effective primer.
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
Ordering empennage next week
gathering tools, compressor, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Clark <lclark(at)indra.com> |
Hi Russ,
I don't have any experience with primers yet, but have one piece of advice
about air compressors. I bought three of them before I got one that was
satisfactory (it's a long, really dumb story). In short, don't buy an
"oilfree" or "oilless" compressor unless you live out in the boonies far away
from any neighbors AND you're already deaf. If you do, you'll likely have
serious neighbor problems. Those things are LOUD. Get one that uses oil.
Those are easily identified by the presence of a separate motor that drives
the compressor via a belt. The belt-driven units are much quieter than the
oilless ones. The belt-driven ones tend to have a smaller capacity tank than
the oilless ones for the same money, but the noise level is much lower. I
think I paid $369 at Home Depot for one with a 25 gallon tank. Don't buy
from auto parts stores. They tend to charge double the going rate elsewhere
for the exact same compressor. Sears, Sam's Club, Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot
are all places that sell compressors. Walmart has the best price on those
yellow coiled air hoses, about $10 for a 25-footer. Also, anything bigger
than, say, 40 gallon capacity will probably be 240 volt that will require
some electrician work (the second compressor I stupidly bought ;-).
My $0.02.
-- Lynn
Louisville, CO (northwest of Denver about 15 miles)
Getting a slow start, but finishing rear HS spar
BTW, my project page is at http://www.eaa43.org/projects/lclark/index.htm
Take a look there at the pictures I took yesterday (Friday) of the RV-7
prototype at Skyview Airpart, Wyoming. I've gotta drill more holes!
On Saturday 04 August 2001 01:35, RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi guys--this is my first experience with the list. My question:
> In reviewing the RV-7 preview plans Van recommends (among others) that a
> new primer called TEMPO brand Chromate in a spray can be used. Does anyone
> have any experience in using this for the primer on their project? With
> the size of my work area it seems this would be an easier way to go if it
> is an effective primer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "judy" <judy109(at)infi.net> |
Hi Lynn , What was the name brand of the compressor that you finally ended
up with . I saw a 60 gal. at Home Depot for $399. Thanhs for your help,
Howie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Clark" <lclark(at)indra.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: primer
>
> Hi Russ,
>
> I don't have any experience with primers yet, but have one piece of advice
> about air compressors. I bought three of them before I got one that was
> satisfactory (it's a long, really dumb story). In short, don't buy an
> "oilfree" or "oilless" compressor unless you live out in the boonies far
away
> from any neighbors AND you're already deaf. If you do, you'll likely have
> serious neighbor problems. Those things are LOUD. Get one that uses oil.
> Those are easily identified by the presence of a separate motor that
drives
> the compressor via a belt. The belt-driven units are much quieter than
the
> oilless ones. The belt-driven ones tend to have a smaller capacity tank
than
> the oilless ones for the same money, but the noise level is much lower. I
> think I paid $369 at Home Depot for one with a 25 gallon tank. Don't buy
> from auto parts stores. They tend to charge double the going rate
elsewhere
> for the exact same compressor. Sears, Sam's Club, Walmart, Lowes, Home
Depot
> are all places that sell compressors. Walmart has the best price on those
> yellow coiled air hoses, about $10 for a 25-footer. Also, anything bigger
> than, say, 40 gallon capacity will probably be 240 volt that will require
> some electrician work (the second compressor I stupidly bought ;-).
>
> My $0.02.
>
> -- Lynn
> Louisville, CO (northwest of Denver about 15 miles)
> Getting a slow start, but finishing rear HS spar
>
> BTW, my project page is at http://www.eaa43.org/projects/lclark/index.htm
> Take a look there at the pictures I took yesterday (Friday) of the RV-7
> prototype at Skyview Airpart, Wyoming. I've gotta drill more holes!
>
> On Saturday 04 August 2001 01:35, RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys--this is my first experience with the list. My question:
> > In reviewing the RV-7 preview plans Van recommends (among others) that
a
> > new primer called TEMPO brand Chromate in a spray can be used. Does
anyone
> > have any experience in using this for the primer on their project? With
> > the size of my work area it seems this would be an easier way to go if
it
> > is an effective primer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Clark <lclark(at)indra.com> |
I bought a 26 gallon Husky, which I think is Home Depot's store brand, but is
made by Campbell-Hausfield. Be careful about the 60 gal. unit. That one
will be 240 volts, which is fine if you already have a 240 volt outlet handy
(like what your electric clothes dryer and range is plugged into) AND if you
know how to wire a 240 volt plug to the compressor. It won't have a cord and
plug attached when you buy it. In fact, you'll probably have to buy a 240
volt cord and plug separately. From what I've been told, a compressor in the
25-30 gallon range is all that is needed for building an RV with the
pre-built wing spar, like the RV-7. A friend of mine who's working on RV-9A
wings has a 25 gallon compressor (I think!) in his basement and he says it's
more than adequate.
-- Lynn
On Saturday 04 August 2001 10:52, judy wrote:
>
> Hi Lynn , What was the name brand of the compressor that you finally ended
> up with . I saw a 60 gal. at Home Depot for $399. Thanhs for your help,
>
> Howie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Clark" <lclark(at)indra.com>
> To: ;
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: primer
>
> >
> > Hi Russ,
> >
> > I don't have any experience with primers yet, but have one piece of
> > advice about air compressors. I bought three of them before I got one
> > that was satisfactory (it's a long, really dumb story). In short, don't
> > buy an "oilfree" or "oilless" compressor unless you live out in the
> > boonies far
>
> away
>
> > from any neighbors AND you're already deaf. If you do, you'll likely
> > have serious neighbor problems. Those things are LOUD. Get one that
> > uses oil. Those are easily identified by the presence of a separate motor
> > that
>
> drives
>
> > the compressor via a belt. The belt-driven units are much quieter than
>
> the
>
> > oilless ones. The belt-driven ones tend to have a smaller capacity tank
>
> than
>
> > the oilless ones for the same money, but the noise level is much lower.
> > I think I paid $369 at Home Depot for one with a 25 gallon tank. Don't
> > buy from auto parts stores. They tend to charge double the going rate
>
> elsewhere
>
> > for the exact same compressor. Sears, Sam's Club, Walmart, Lowes, Home
>
> Depot
>
> > are all places that sell compressors. Walmart has the best price on
> > those yellow coiled air hoses, about $10 for a 25-footer. Also, anything
> > bigger than, say, 40 gallon capacity will probably be 240 volt that will
> > require some electrician work (the second compressor I stupidly bought
> > ;-).
> >
> > My $0.02.
> >
> > -- Lynn
> > Louisville, CO (northwest of Denver about 15 miles)
> > Getting a slow start, but finishing rear HS spar
> >
> > BTW, my project page is at http://www.eaa43.org/projects/lclark/index.htm
> > Take a look there at the pictures I took yesterday (Friday) of the RV-7
> > prototype at Skyview Airpart, Wyoming. I've gotta drill more holes!
> >
> > On Saturday 04 August 2001 01:35, RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi guys--this is my first experience with the list. My question:
> > > In reviewing the RV-7 preview plans Van recommends (among others) that
>
> a
>
> > > new primer called TEMPO brand Chromate in a spray can be used. Does
>
> anyone
>
> > > have any experience in using this for the primer on their project?
> > > With the size of my work area it seems this would be an easier way to
> > > go if
>
> it
>
> > > is an effective primer.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
Fellow builders,
I am frustrated (to say the least) and need some help. I have been
drilling (reaming) out my HS hinge brackets in order to mount them to the
Jig. As you know, the attachment is (should be) a #3 (or 3/16") size bolt.
I have some AN3 bolts that I plan to use.
I reamed the holes first with a #12 drill to clean the paint out of the
bracket holes. The bolts were too large to go through. To experiment
further, I ran a 3/16" drill through the holes .... and the clearance
seemed to get better (but it shouldn't have because a 3/16" drill is
smaller than a #12!). But, the bolts still won't go through. I got the
#12 drill bits from Avery .... and I checked with a magnifying glass last
night that, sure enough, they are marked "12." The AN3 bolts came from
Aircraft Spruce just a few weeks ago.
Are AN3 bolts typically larger than 3/16" by a small amount?
Help Please!
I plan to borrow a micrometer and check the drill bit sizes and bolts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Collins" <steveco(at)houston.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/04/01 |
Howie,
This $399 Husky from Home Depot is the compressor I ended up buying. So far
it seems like a great unit. But like Lynn pointed out, there are some
considerations to take into account: it is 240V (I had already run some 240V
outlets by tapping into my clothes dryer circuit, so this wasn't a problem),
it doesn't come with a cord, so you have to make your own (not i big deal,
but "hidden" cost and time), doesn't come with a regulator (another
"hidden" cost). I liked the smaller footprint of the vertical unit ( I
stuffed it back in a corner), 240V (didn't want the extra load on my
available 120V circuits), the additional tank capacity, and the higher cfpm
(probably overkill, but I tend to be that way with tools). As far as the
way it runs: relatively quiet, fills from empty to 135psi in less than 15
minutes, and runs quite a while before the motor kicks in to "top-off"
(which just takes a couple minutes). I'm still glad I went with this unit,
but be sure to evaluate your circumstances.
-Steve Collins
>
____
> From: "judy" <judy109(at)infi.net>
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: primer
>
>
> Hi Lynn , What was the name brand of the compressor that you finally ended
> up with . I saw a 60 gal. at Home Depot for $399. Thanhs for your help,
>
> Howie
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott grant <scottygrant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/04/01 |
> I don't have any experience with primers yet, but
> have one piece of advice
> about air compressors. I bought three of them
> before I got one that was
> satisfactory (it's a long, really dumb story). In
> short, don't buy an
> "oilfree" or "oilless" compressor unless you live
> out in the boonies far away
> from any neighbors AND you're already deaf. If you
> do, you'll likely have
> serious neighbor problems. Those things are LOUD.
> Get one that uses oil.
> Those are easily identified by the presence of a
> separate motor that drives
> the compressor via a belt. The belt-driven units
> are much quieter than the
> oilless ones. The belt-driven ones tend to have a
> smaller capacity tank than
> the oilless ones for the same money, but the noise
> level is much lower. I
> think I paid $369 at Home Depot for one with a 25
> gallon tank. Don't buy
> from auto parts stores. They tend to charge double
> the going rate elsewhere
> for the exact same compressor. Sears, Sam's Club,
> Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot
> are all places that sell compressors. Walmart has
> the best price on those
> yellow coiled air hoses, about $10 for a 25-footer.
> Also, anything bigger
> than, say, 40 gallon capacity will probably be 240
> volt that will require
> some electrician work (the second compressor I
> stupidly bought ;-).
>
> My $0.02.
>
> -- Lynn
> Louisville, CO (northwest of Denver about 15 miles)
> Getting a slow start, but finishing rear HS spar
>
> BTW, my project page is at
> http://www.eaa43.org/projects/lclark/index.htm
> Take a look there at the pictures I took yesterday
> (Friday) of the RV-7
> prototype at Skyview Airpart, Wyoming. I've gotta
> drill more holes!
I have one of those noisy oilless compressors as well,
and I boxed it in with cinder blocks under my bench.
It cut the noise in half, and now I can work with my
garage door open! A simple brute force solution.....
BTW, my empennage is complete (and doesn't look too
bad :) ), and the wing kit is coming in a few
weeks.
I look forward to the final word on primers, as I
don't much care for the Sherwin Williams wash primer
Van's recommends, and the self-etching primers (at $10
per can) aren't a good solution either. Alodine then
prime? Just alodine? Just prime? The Sherwin
Williams instructions specifically recommend against
priming over alodined surfaces.....
Clearly, I'm not a painting pro, and I'm hoping for
someone out there to show me the light with a garage-
friendly solution.
Regards,
Scotty
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "judy" <judy109(at)infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/04/01 |
Thanks to all that replied . I think that I'm going to go with the 60 gal.
Husky from Home Depot since I also plan on doing my painting , and that's
when you don't want to run low on air. Thanks again will talk to you all
again soon
Howie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Collins" <steveco(at)houston.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/04/01
>
> Howie,
> This $399 Husky from Home Depot is the compressor I ended up buying. So
far
> it seems like a great unit. But like Lynn pointed out, there are some
> considerations to take into account: it is 240V (I had already run some
240V
> outlets by tapping into my clothes dryer circuit, so this wasn't a
problem),
> it doesn't come with a cord, so you have to make your own (not i big deal,
> but "hidden" cost and time), doesn't come with a regulator (another
> "hidden" cost). I liked the smaller footprint of the vertical unit ( I
> stuffed it back in a corner), 240V (didn't want the extra load on my
> available 120V circuits), the additional tank capacity, and the higher
cfpm
> (probably overkill, but I tend to be that way with tools). As far as the
> way it runs: relatively quiet, fills from empty to 135psi in less than 15
> minutes, and runs quite a while before the motor kicks in to "top-off"
> (which just takes a couple minutes). I'm still glad I went with this
unit,
> but be sure to evaluate your circumstances.
>
> -Steve Collins
>
> >
> ____
> > From: "judy" <judy109(at)infi.net>
> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: primer
> >
> >
> > Hi Lynn , What was the name brand of the compressor that you finally
ended
> > up with . I saw a 60 gal. at Home Depot for $399. Thanhs for your help,
> >
> > Howie
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Dimpling HD-603PP |
I'm very sorry for the stupidity of the following
question - and the several hundred I've yet to post
but probably will.
I just started the 7A and am a newbie and am
"walking through" the manual, making notes and all
that.
In the dimpling suggested on 6-2 of HD-603PP spar
flanges, what size dimple die set should be used?
Also, I'm just curious how people are finding the
HS-609PP alignment and how much filing/sanding people
find they have to do. I ask this because when I layed
mine out, they seem to fit great with a very minimum
amount of filing to break the edges and a lot of
sanding to get rid of milling marks and create the
"satin finish."
Thanks
Bob Collins
St. Paul, MN.
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale H" <ryanpilot(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Size Question |
Very often when drilling thin sheet metal, the hole comes out slightly
triangular rather than perfectly round. If in fact you have this condition
the bolts will not go through. Its usually better to drill undersize then
ream to the finish size.
Dale Hollingworth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 4:14 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Drill Size Question
>
> Fellow builders,
>
> I am frustrated (to say the least) and need some help. I have been
> drilling (reaming) out my HS hinge brackets in order to mount them to the
> Jig. As you know, the attachment is (should be) a #3 (or 3/16") size
bolt.
> I have some AN3 bolts that I plan to use.
>
> I reamed the holes first with a #12 drill to clean the paint out of the
> bracket holes. The bolts were too large to go through. To experiment
> further, I ran a 3/16" drill through the holes .... and the clearance
> seemed to get better (but it shouldn't have because a 3/16" drill is
> smaller than a #12!). But, the bolts still won't go through. I got the
> #12 drill bits from Avery .... and I checked with a magnifying glass last
> night that, sure enough, they are marked "12." The AN3 bolts came from
> Aircraft Spruce just a few weeks ago.
>
> Are AN3 bolts typically larger than 3/16" by a small amount?
>
> Help Please!
>
> I plan to borrow a micrometer and check the drill bit sizes and bolts.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Size Question |
Ellis, you need to buy a selection of reamers such as nominal size--example
.250 and as well a undersize such as .2490. One will give you a slightly
loose fit and the other a snug fit. AN bolts typically vary slightly in
diameter unlike NAS close tolerence types such as used in the wing fitting
bolts. This is not normally a concern. Use the nominal diameter for in aeras
that require a normal fit and the undersize where a tap fit or push fit is
desireable. For the elevator tabs you want a snug fit so that the bolt does
not rotate when snugged down and the rotation instead will occur in the rod
end. A perfect fit is not an absolute necessity since that bolt will get a
torque on it but good clean holes can only be achieved by drilling up from a
smaller size and reaming for final desired diameter with a chucking style
reamer. Get a set for all common sizes--AN3 through about AN5. Also get some
Boelube for use when you drill and ream important holes. This should be
covered I imagine somewhere in builder practices section? JR, A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com |
Is anyone building in the Orange County, California area?? I'm gathering
tools right now and going through the preview plans and plan to order the
empennage next week. It would be nice to see how rivets are set! Thanks
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
preview plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy.karmy(at)home.com> |
As always, Primer choices are many. The question is, what is important to
you?
If I were going to use a spray can primer I would use Sherwin Williams
GPB988, which is a nice self etching rattle can primer. You get it from the
Sherwin Williams automotive paint stores.
However I think using a spray gun will give a nicer finish and save much
cost over the life of the project. I'm using a new product from Aircraft
Finishing Systems (AFS) It is a waterbourne polyurathane and is just great
to work with. It's nontoxic and sprays nicely and holds great. Check it out
at http://www.aircraftfinishing.com
- Andy Karmy (andy.karmy(at)home.com)
RV9A - Tail
Seattle, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:35 AM
Subject: RV7-List: primer
>
> Hi guys--this is my first experience with the list. My question:
> In reviewing the RV-7 preview plans Van recommends (among others) that a
new
> primer called TEMPO brand Chromate in a spray can be used. Does anyone
have
> any experience in using this for the primer on their project? With the
size
> of my work area it seems this would be an easier way to go if it is an
> effective primer.
>
> Russ Clifford
> Lake Forest, CA
> Ordering empennage next week
> gathering tools, compressor, etc.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling HD-603PP |
Bob, your question about what dimple die to use can be determined by the
size of the rivet that goes in the hole. Another way to figure this is to
try all your dies in the hole to be dimpled. The male die that just nicely
and snugly fits in the hole you have final drilled is the right one to use.
For rivets this will be the size 30 for size 4- rivets and size 40 for size
3- rivets.
It seems the job of filing and sanding and deburring is never ending. I am
beginning to think this part of the job can be more easily accomplished
after the evening cocktail without much chance of screwing anything up.
Larry in Indiana
RV7, Working on Elevators, awaiting the wing kit arrival.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Dimpling HD-603PP
>
> In the dimpling suggested on 6-2 of HD-603PP spar
> flanges, what size dimple die set should be used?
>
> Also, I'm just curious how people are finding the
> HS-609PP alignment and how much filing/sanding people
> find they have to do. >
> Thanks
> Bob Collins
> St. Paul, MN.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
More info.
First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
intend to try.
But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well lubricated,
in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a 3/16"
drill bit.
After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
in the holes.
Results.
One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
bolts would fit.
I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel R. Masys, M.D." <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu> |
>
>As always, Primer choices are many. The question is, what is important to
>you?
>
>If I were going to use a spray can primer I would use Sherwin Williams
>GPB988, which is a nice self etching rattle can primer. You get it from the
>Sherwin Williams automotive paint stores.
This is the same primer that Sherwin Williams makes for NAPA, sold as NAPA
7220 in cases of 6 cans per case, which may be easier to find than a
Sherwin Williams automotive paint store.
Dan Masys
RV7A N868DM (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
More info.
First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
intend to try.
But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well lubricated,
in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a 3/16"
drill bit.
After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
in the holes.
Results.
One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
bolts would fit.
I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
The data proves my theory that I have a "bad" #12 drill bit.
Drill Bit stamp / size Micrometer Reading
(as seen on bit)
1. #12 0.1893 (this is the good #12 bit)
2. 3/16 0.1877
3. #12 0.1850 (this is the bad #12 bit)
No wonder the AN3 bolts wouldn't fit.
End of story
Learning: Just because a drill bit is stamped, doesn't mean it is
accurately sized. This was not some cheap bit I picked up from a flea
market. This bit was purchased from Avery.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-7 empennage jig |
In making the jig, what is the distance between the two vertical posts? In
other words, how long does the horizontal piece have to be? Couldn't find
this info in the preview plans. Someone said about 109" but I'd like to know
for certain.
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
preview plans
empennage next week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fox Todd <foxt(at)NTSB.gov> |
| Subject: | RV-7 empennage jig |
Great question...
I made my horizontal beam distance 109-inches, as directed by the plans.
But... I looked ahead to the wing construction section and noticed that a
larger distance of 114-inches was needed during the final wing assembly.
The 114-inches is the distance between the vertical posts... and for the
wing construction; a horizontal beam is not incorporated between them.
I hope that this helps.
Todd.
Andrew Todd Fox
Geneva, Illinois
RV-7A
Empennage Kit - Skinning The Horizontal Stabilizer
National Transportation Safety Board
Andrew Todd Fox - Air Safety Investigator
foxt(at)NTSB.gov
-----Original Message-----
From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com [mailto:RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:54 PM
Subject: RV7-List: RV-7 empennage jig
In making the jig, what is the distance between the two vertical posts? In
other words, how long does the horizontal piece have to be? Couldn't find
this info in the preview plans. Someone said about 109" but I'd like to
know
for certain.
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
preview plans
empennage next week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alison and Neil" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
Andy, which product are you using, the one part primer/sealer ?
Neil
-7 emp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy.karmy(at)home.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: primer
>
> As always, Primer choices are many. The question is, what is important to
> you?
>
> If I were going to use a spray can primer I would use Sherwin Williams
> GPB988, which is a nice self etching rattle can primer. You get it from
the
> Sherwin Williams automotive paint stores.
>
> However I think using a spray gun will give a nicer finish and save much
> cost over the life of the project. I'm using a new product from Aircraft
> Finishing Systems (AFS) It is a waterbourne polyurathane and is just great
> to work with. It's nontoxic and sprays nicely and holds great. Check it
out
> at http://www.aircraftfinishing.com
>
>
> - Andy Karmy (andy.karmy(at)home.com)
> RV9A - Tail
> Seattle, WA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:35 AM
> Subject: RV7-List: primer
>
>
> >
> > Hi guys--this is my first experience with the list. My question:
> > In reviewing the RV-7 preview plans Van recommends (among others) that
a
> new
> > primer called TEMPO brand Chromate in a spray can be used. Does anyone
> have
> > any experience in using this for the primer on their project? With the
> size
> > of my work area it seems this would be an easier way to go if it is an
> > effective primer.
> >
> > Russ Clifford
> > Lake Forest, CA
> > Ordering empennage next week
> > gathering tools, compressor, etc.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
| Subject: | Drill Size Question |
More info.
First, thanks to all who sent advice. There are a couple of suggestions I
intend to try.
But, let me tell you what I found yesterday!
I carefully drilled some holes in 1/8" aircraft aluminum. Well lubricated,
in a drill press. All holes appear perfectly round. Holes were drilled
with 2 different #12 bits (came in the same package from Avery) and a 3/16"
drill bit.
After drilling, I took 5 different AN3 bolts to see if any / all would fit
in the holes.
Results.
One of the #12 bits drilled holes smaller than the 3/16" bit. And the
other #12 bit drilled a hole larger than the 3/16" bit. There is obviously
a difference in the two #12's. The bit that was drilling the smaller hole
was the one I had been using and could not understand why none of the AN3
bolts would fit.
I am mic'ing the bits today and will publish the results. I also plan to
call Averys .... they are great folks and I am sure will help.
I may invest in some reamers for AN3, AN4, and AN5 size holes. This ordeal
has been very frustrating for me. When a bit is stamped #12, you expect it
to be .1890 inches.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
rv6-list(at)matronics.com, rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com,
rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rvcanada-list(at)matronics.com,
rveurope-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Van's Homecoming 2001 - A Photo Journal! |
Hi RV Listers!
Well, just back from Van's Homecoming BBQ and Fly-in up at the Aurora
Airport and in a word, wow. Below is a URL link to a web page I did on
the photos I took over the two days. There are multi-resolutions and
preview thumbnails for easy viewing.
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/VansHomeComing2001/
Have a look and feel free to download any you'd like to keep or make
your screen backdrops.
If you haven't gone to a Homecoming before, or even if you have, I
highly recommend the trip. Very inspirational.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Finish Kit - #1763 - N442RV
Matronics EMail List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
| Subject: | My first mistake |
I drilled the 5/8 inch hole on the right front HS602 spar. The drawing says
to drill it on the right only but the view is a front view and so the right
side is the left spar. The ISO view shows the trim cable going down the
left side, that is how I noticed the problem. Anyway, others beware of the
confusing drawing statement. I'll ask Vans if I can drill the other side
now, I don't see why not.
John Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john banks" <tinmanjj(at)ptd.net> |
"RV7-List Digest List \(E-mail\)"
| Subject: | Re: My first mistake |
no problem we call them lightening holes
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Adams" <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: RV7-List: My first mistake
>
> I drilled the 5/8 inch hole on the right front HS602 spar. The drawing
says
> to drill it on the right only but the view is a front view and so the
right
> side is the left spar. The ISO view shows the trim cable going down the
> left side, that is how I noticed the problem. Anyway, others beware of
the
> confusing drawing statement. I'll ask Vans if I can drill the other side
> now, I don't see why not.
> John Adams
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john banks" <tinmanjj(at)ptd.net> |
"RV7-List Digest List \(E-mail\)"
| Subject: | Re: My first mistake |
no problem we call them lightening holes
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Adams" <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: RV7-List: My first mistake
>
> I drilled the 5/8 inch hole on the right front HS602 spar. The drawing
says
> to drill it on the right only but the view is a front view and so the
right
> side is the left spar. The ISO view shows the trim cable going down the
> left side, that is how I noticed the problem. Anyway, others beware of
the
> confusing drawing statement. I'll ask Vans if I can drill the other side
> now, I don't see why not.
> John Adams
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | HS front spar riveting |
I've got a couple questions about finishing up the front HS spar (RV-7).
1) The front HS spar is primed and clecoed together, ready for riveting.
But I'm curious about the riveting technique...what do most builders do? Do
you just lay the spar on its side (on the flanges) and go to town? Do you
clamp it down somehow while riveting or let it sit free on a bench? What's
the best technique for driving those rivets holding the angles to the spars?
2) Also, the instructions and plans are somewhat confusing...I believe I'm
NOT supposed to rivet every hole...it appears that the holes where the spar
gets drilled to the fuselage attachment would preclude the need for
riveting...or do they get drilled out later?
3) The RV-7 empennage kit came with a stack of scrap Alclad sheets. Should
I be vigilant about preserving these sheets for fabricating small flanges
and stuff down the line, or should I feel free to screw around with these
scrap sheets? It's been a few weeks since the SportAir workshop, and I'd
like to practice riveting with the gun again before I start doing the front
spar. I would love to take some of this scrap and mess around with it for
practice. Or should I save it?
Thanks,
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: HS front spar riveting |
>
>1) The front HS spar is primed and clecoed together, ready for riveting.
>But I'm curious about the riveting technique...what do most builders do? Do
>you just lay the spar on its side (on the flanges) and go to town?
If you do this, there is a good chance the rivet set will bounce off the
rivet head and you'll get a deep smiley in the manufactured head. I know
:-(. Find some way to clamp the spar down to your worksurface within about
6 inches of where you plan to rivet. You'll be glad you did...
>What's
>the best technique for driving those rivets holding the angles to the spars?
Gun + bucking bar. Make sure both are perpendicular to the face you're
riveting.
>2) Also, the instructions and plans are somewhat confusing...I believe I'm
>NOT supposed to rivet every hole...it appears that the holes where the spar
>gets drilled to the fuselage attachment would preclude the need for
>riveting...or do they get drilled out later?
They get drilled out later.
>3) The RV-7 empennage kit came with a stack of scrap Alclad sheets. Should
>I be vigilant about preserving these sheets for fabricating small flanges
>and stuff down the line, or should I feel free to screw around with these
>scrap sheets? It's been a few weeks since the SportAir workshop, and I'd
>like to practice riveting with the gun again before I start doing the front
>spar. I would love to take some of this scrap and mess around with it for
>practice. Or should I save it?
You will need a piece 15 inches long x several inches wide to make an
attachment flange for the bottom of the rudder; other than that, whack away
:-).
-Dan Masys
Elevators on RV-7A N868DM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS front spar riveting |
Dan, thanks for the quick response. A couple followup questions...
> >What's
> >the best technique for driving those rivets holding the angles to the
spars?
>
> Gun + bucking bar. Make sure both are perpendicular to the face you're
> riveting.
Just realized that I could probably use my C-frame dimpler for this...using
rivet sets. Is this not adviseable?
> >2) Also, the instructions and plans are somewhat confusing...I believe
I'm
> >NOT supposed to rivet every hole...it appears that the holes where the
spar
> >gets drilled to the fuselage attachment would preclude the need for
> >riveting...or do they get drilled out later?
>
> They get drilled out later.
But should I drive rivets in those holes or just leave them alone as pilot
holes?
Thanks much for the info!
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS front spar riveting |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: RV7-List: HS front spar riveting
>
> I've got a couple questions about finishing up the front HS spar (RV-7).
>
> 1) The front HS spar is primed and clecoed together, ready for riveting.
> But I'm curious about the riveting technique...what do most builders do?
Do
> you just lay the spar on its side (on the flanges) and go to town? Do you
> clamp it down somehow while riveting or let it sit free on a bench?
What's
> the best technique for driving those rivets holding the angles to the
spars?
Yes clamp it to something. A quick clamp and the side of the table will do
a good job. If you don't you'll get a smiley or two. If you can reach it
with the sqeezer then sqeeze it, if not then get out the old gun and bucking
bar. I can't remember what I did here but seems like I could reach a few
with the sqeezer and used the gun on the rest.
>
> 2) Also, the instructions and plans are somewhat confusing...I believe I'm
> NOT supposed to rivet every hole...it appears that the holes where the
spar
> gets drilled to the fuselage attachment would preclude the need for
> riveting...or do they get drilled out later?
>
There are a couple of holes that you need to leave without rivets. These
are where the inboard ribs will connect when you put the skeleton together.
There are a few holes that you don't even drill yet. They will have bolts
in them but you will leave these alone until you are attaching the tail to
the fuse then you drill them all together.
> 3) The RV-7 empennage kit came with a stack of scrap Alclad sheets.
Should
> I be vigilant about preserving these sheets for fabricating small flanges
> and stuff down the line, or should I feel free to screw around with these
> scrap sheets? It's been a few weeks since the SportAir workshop, and I'd
> like to practice riveting with the gun again before I start doing the
front
> spar. I would love to take some of this scrap and mess around with it for
> practice. Or should I save it?
I have used some of this stuff for small plates and things for the wing kit.
I could have probably gotten these little things out of the trim bundle that
came with the wings, but I had that stuff left over from the emp so I used
it. Keep some pieces around for adjusting countersinks and such and it is
nice to have a little sheetmetal for making gauges and the shims. I have
made little gauges for angles and edge distance etc. Also made a Pro-seal
balance out of the emp trim bundle. Practice away, you should be pretty
comfortable riveting with only a dozen or so. You won't need to use up that
much of the scrap. Oh and like someone else posted there are two plates
that you have to make to attach the Rudder bottom.
>
> Thanks,
> )_( Dan
> dan(at)rvproject.com
> http://www.rvproject.com
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings
Houston, Texas
http://www.myrv7.com
Takeoffs are optional, Landings are mandatory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | getting a shop head straight |
Ok, I hit a point where I'm riveting the HS spars and ribs together.
There's *ONE* freakin' hold that, for the life of me, I can't get riveted
straight. Every time the shop head comes out crooked. I've tried the
pneumatic squeezer, hand squeezer, repeatedly...and I'm 100% positive I'm
holding them square. What is going on?!
I'd appreciate any advice you can give me. Does it have to do with hole
alignment or something? I'm really confused after 4 tries. Other rivets
are going in fine!
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: getting a shop head straight |
And now the hole is unfortunately drilled out larger than the AN470AD-4-5
rivet! I can't find any AD5-5 rivets in the hardware kit...am I screwed or
what?!
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: RV7-List: getting a shop head straight
>
> Ok, I hit a point where I'm riveting the HS spars and ribs together.
> There's *ONE* freakin' hold that, for the life of me, I can't get riveted
> straight. Every time the shop head comes out crooked. I've tried the
> pneumatic squeezer, hand squeezer, repeatedly...and I'm 100% positive I'm
> holding them square. What is going on?!
>
> I'd appreciate any advice you can give me. Does it have to do with hole
> alignment or something? I'm really confused after 4 tries. Other rivets
> are going in fine!
>
> )_( Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Beatty" <dtbeatty(at)attcanada.ca> |
Dan may I suggest using an aircraft bolt in the problem location.
Provided there is clearance for head and nut. The bolt will be much
stronger than the rivet it replaces.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
| Subject: | getting a shop head straight |
Dan, What parts are you having trouble with? So I know in advance, I
haven't attached the front spar to the ribs yet. Do you have an offset
driver for your rivet gun?
John Adams
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:51 PM
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: getting a shop head straight
And now the hole is unfortunately drilled out larger than the AN470AD-4-5
rivet! I can't find any AD5-5 rivets in the hardware kit...am I screwed or
what?!
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: RV7-List: getting a shop head straight
>
> Ok, I hit a point where I'm riveting the HS spars and ribs together.
> There's *ONE* freakin' hold that, for the life of me, I can't get riveted
> straight. Every time the shop head comes out crooked. I've tried the
> pneumatic squeezer, hand squeezer, repeatedly...and I'm 100% positive I'm
> holding them square. What is going on?!
>
> I'd appreciate any advice you can give me. Does it have to do with hole
> alignment or something? I'm really confused after 4 tries. Other rivets
> are going in fine!
>
> )_( Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: getting a shop head straight |
I had trouble with the spar-to-rib rivets that could not be squeezed. I
only have 1" gap squeezer yokes (Avery pneumatic and Tatco). I think that's
99% of my problem...that I had to buck rivets that ordinarily, and with the
right tools, could have been squeezed.
But I also had an alignment issue with one rivet on the rear spar and one
end rib. I'm sure, after all the advice, that it was a hole straightness
issue.
I "solved" that problem by carefully squeezing a 4-6 into a 5-5 to fill the
oversized hole (after I drilled it out as such).
I also had the most trouble with the rivets holding the front ribs to the
front spar. Looking back, what I should have done was leave the front ribs
OFF until after I riveted the middle and inner ribs to the front spar.
Could have gotten better clearance for holding the rivet gun straight that
way (and duh...I didn't think to use the offset rivet driver...still
learning to really evaluate the right tool to use). And then after that,
riveting the front ribs on afterward...since their rivets are more central
to the spar anyway and the flanges don't get in the way of the rivet gun as
badly.
Anyway, 20-20 hindsight. Still learning the tricks of the trade.
)_( Dan
> Dan, What parts are you having trouble with? So I know in advance, I
> haven't attached the front spar to the ribs yet. Do you have an offset
> driver for your rivet gun?
> John Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
Dan,
Sounds like the hole is too big. I'm a new builder, and no expert, but I've
had a similar problem with a 3 rivet. Three possible solutions I can think
of:
1. Leave the cleated rivet in place and add an additional rivet on the rib
flange.
2. Squeeze the rivet just a little before you put it in the hole to take out
the side to side wiggle (may sacrifice a few rivets until you get the right
width)
3. Buy some "oops" Rivets from Vans. I'd buy an assortment of oops rivets
anyway, you're going to have more goofs. Oops rivets are rivets where the
shank is the next size up but the head is close to the original size.
Especially useful in a flush rivet situation where you enlarge the hole in a
riveting mistake.
Hope this helps.
John McDonnell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: getting a shop head straight |
>I also had the most trouble with the rivets holding the front ribs to the
>front spar. Looking back, what I should have done was leave the front ribs
>OFF until after I riveted the middle and inner ribs to the front spar.
>Could have gotten better clearance for holding the rivet gun straight that
>way (and duh...I didn't think to use the offset rivet driver...still
>learning to really evaluate the right tool to use). And then after that,
>riveting the front ribs on afterward...since their rivets are more central
>to the spar anyway and the flanges don't get in the way of the rivet gun as
>badly.
>
>Anyway, 20-20 hindsight. Still learning the tricks of the trade.
I ended buying a pair of replacement front ribs for the HS skeleton from
Van's due to riveting misadventures also. In my case, it was smileys in
the manufactured head and I messed up drilling out the old rivets;
imprecise rivet removal was the big issue I had with the HS skeleton. Of
course, if I had driven the rivets correctly in the first place this
wouldn't have happened.
Had a peak of frustration when I had to order 4 different HS replacement
parts from Van's in one week, due to misleading instructions, my misreading
of instructions and drawings, and good old fashioned riveting
incompetence. But it all passed and although I'm still making mistakes,
they all seem to be of the cosmetic variety only. I guess it chugs along
like this for quite a while and doesn't get to be white knuckle time again
until the work on the canopy starts.
-Dan Masys
Currently stuck in Washington DC but hoping someday to get back to San
Diego to work on the RV-7A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | "Clothespin" clamp dimensions |
More newbie questions...sorry...
I've got my HS bolted into the jig and stable, ready for skinning. I'm
about to make these "clothespin" clamp things, but I haven't been able to
find any dimensions for them other than the suggested thickness of ply (1/2"
to 3/4").
Drawing 6-3PP is pretty clear, but I can't tell exactly how wide the gap is
supposed to be. Should I just assume the thickest width of the spars plus a
fudge factor of about 1/4" or so for the weather stripping to "hug"? That
doesn't seem to work since some of these "clothespins" will be placed near
the outer ribs, where it's narrower.
Am I over-thinking this? 8
) Any suggestions would be appreciated (RV-7,
in case that matters).
Also, are these clamps really necessary? With everything pre-drilled, it
sure seems simple for me to just cleco it together, drill, deburr, and
rivet!
)_( Dan
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Marlowe" <fmarlowe(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | "Clothespin" clamp dimensions |
Dan,
I didn't have the luxury of predrilled ribs since I ordered my kit too
soon
in Van's RV-7 ramp up process. If I had the pre-punched ribs I doubt if I
would even bother drilling and de-burring. I would just dimple, cleco and
rivet. I'm not even sure you need to place it in a jig (other than just to
hold the workpiece). I mean how can you get out of line with pre-punched
skins and ribs?
Any flamers out there with the hardcore evidence to refute?
Dragging out the asbestos suit! Again!
What the hey, I've been wrong before.
Frank
PS: hope it works out fine whichever way you go.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 6:47 PM
Subject: RV7-List: "Clothespin" clamp dimensions
" Also, are these clamps really necessary? With everything pre-drilled, it
sure seems simple for me to just cleco it together, drill, deburr, and
rivet! "
)_( Dan
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: "Clothespin" clamp dimensions |
Well, I just cut out a few clothespins out of 3/4" thick particle board.
12" wide, 24" tall, cutout is about 3 5/8" wide with a radius at the top. I
took Jerry Calvert's advice and used duct tape instead of weather
stripping...but I embedded some bubble wrap in there and it works GREAT!
Nice and cushy, good firm clamping, and no scratching. Thanks for the
advice guys!
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: "Clothespin" clamp dimensions
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
>
> I saw what looked like a good alternative somewhere on the web a long time
> ago. The guy substituted the wood version of the clothes pin for one made
> of heavy wire or metal dowel. More of a bobby pin, you could say. He
> slipped foam pipe insulation over them before they were put in place.
> Looked like a cool, simple idea. This was long after I had used the wood
> version on my empennage.
>
> Larry Bowen
> Utility room cabinets...RV-8 fuse too.
> Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> Web: http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:47 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: "Clothespin" clamp dimensions
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> >
> > More newbie questions...sorry...
> >
> > I've got my HS bolted into the jig and stable, ready for skinning. I'm
> > about to make these "clothespin" clamp things, but I haven't been able
to
> > find any dimensions for them other than the suggested thickness
> > of ply (1/2"
> > to 3/4").
> >
> > Drawing 6-3PP is pretty clear, but I can't tell exactly how wide
> > the gap is
> > supposed to be. Should I just assume the thickest width of the
> > spars plus a
> > fudge factor of about 1/4" or so for the weather stripping to "hug"?
That
> > doesn't seem to work since some of these "clothespins" will be placed
near
> > the outer ribs, where it's narrower.
> >
> > Am I over-thinking this? 8
) Any suggestions would be appreciated
(RV-7,
> > in case that matters).
> >
> > Also, are these clamps really necessary? With everything pre-drilled,
it
> > sure seems simple for me to just cleco it together, drill, deburr, and
> > rivet!
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Dan,
You will want the clamps. They keep everything tighter than just clecos.
Clecos have a little give in them. My stab came out tight as a drum with no
oil canning at all. Pay attention to the drilling and riveting pattern
suggested.
Their function is to hold the skin tight especially near the spar. I made
three. The width of the gap is not critical since you can shim it at the fwd
spar with wood shims, but I did make a wide, medium, and narrow clamp to
acount for the taper of the spar.
Weather stripping didn't work for me, it peeled off. I used some old carpet
strips. I didn't even attach them to the clamps. I just laid the carpet
strips, about two inches wide, over the stab then put the clamps on top of
them. Then I used tapered shims between the clamp and the carpet to snug
things up while protecting the skin from any scratches.
Have fun,
John McDonnell (QB kit arrives next Friday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
I finally flew today for the first time since all this chaos. Despite
needing to go IFR, and despite specific admonitions that "pilots will not be
able to cancel IFR", it was a breeze. The controllers were helpful, if not
a little tense, and I was able to fly the visual approach 3 out of 4 times
(the instrument approach was actually necessary that one time). And as far
as I'm concerned, flying the visual is pretty much the same as cancelling
IFR -- in terms of how you end up flying. Arrivals don't really need to be
long, drawn-out processes.
Granted, only one of the normally 4 GA gates was open at John Wayne today.
At the one open gate, there was a sheriff inspecting everybody's IDs
(driver's & pilot's license) as well as the contents of the trunk. It only
took a few seconds.
Anyway, I encourage IFR capable pilots to get out there and exercise your
rights, exercise the system, and enjoy yourselves. Despite a hint of the
"am I doing something wrong?" feeling (and not being able to help
occasionally scanning for intercepting military jets), it's worth it to get
up there and do what we love to do, making a statement to anybody who's
watching that we're not going to stop flying just because some freaks of
morality took probability to the extreme. General aviation is the same as
it has always been...if we make it so.
Have fun, and FLY.
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
N747DC (RV-7 being built)
N201DD (Mooney 201 being flown)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | !!new RV messageboard!! |
To the best of my knowledge the RV community has not untill now had a
"real" messageboard.
So I started one!
you can access it here
http://www.flugfelagid.com/ffmessageb/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi
or go through our web www.flugfelagid.com (on the menu click
messageboard and it opens in a separate window)
I hope in time it will be frequented and thus become highly useful and
entertaining for everyone.
To post you will need to register.
Thor Hardarson
Iceland
Building a RV-9 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV7 seat rib and 706 blkhd question |
Could someone take a look who has the fuselage kit and tell me if their 716
seat ribs have the 716B attach holes punched into the lightening hole flange
and also mislocated. Also, my (2) 706 bulkheads have no beading and are
severely warped--is this typical. Thanks for the help. JR
From owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com Mon Sep 24 13:31:03 2001
Message-ID: <001301c14530$73691da0$e59c5c3f@sigecom.net>
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: !!new RV messageboard!!
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:38:13 -0400
What do you call the RV-List? With the archives, it is better than a
message board.
Good luck with your new offering. Personally you are dong a lot of work,
and I think you should be using the matronics rv-list if you are serious
about focused rv chatter. Just my opinion.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 8:12 PM
Subject: RV7-List: !!new RV messageboard!!
>
> To the best of my knowledge the RV community has not untill now had a
> "real" messageboard.
>
> So I started one!
>
> you can access it here
> http://www.flugfelagid.com/ffmessageb/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi
>
> or go through our web www.flugfelagid.com (on the menu click
> messageboard and it opens in a separate window)
>
> I hope in time it will be frequented and thus become highly useful and
> entertaining for everyone.
>
> To post you will need to register.
>
> Thor Hardarson
> Iceland
>
> Building a RV-9 empennage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Message-Id: <200109242040.f8OKeB905143(at)matronics.com>
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"Re: RV7-List: !!new RV messageboard!!" (Sep 24, 1:31pm)
| Subject: | Re: !!new RV messageboard!! |
I've always just called it "The Lists". As for online browsing, stay
tuned, I've been working on a little something that should intergate
well into the existing utilities...
Matt
>--------------
>
>What do you call the RV-List? With the archives, it is better than a
>message board.
>
>
ood luck with your new offering. Personally you are dong a lot of work,
>and I think you should be using the matronics rv-list if you are serious
>about focused rv chatter. Just my opinion.
>
>Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 8:12 PM
>Subject: RV7-List: !!new RV messageboard!!
>
>
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge the RV community has not untill now had a
>> "real" messageboard.
>>
>> So I started one!
>>
>> you can access it here
>> http://www.flugfelagid.com/ffmessageb/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi
>>
>> or go through our web www.flugfelagid.com (on the menu click
>> messageboard and it opens in a separate window)
>>
>> I hope in time it will be frequented and thus become highly useful and
>> entertaining for everyone.
>>
>> To post you will need to register.
>>
>> Thor Hardarson
>> Iceland
>>
>> Building a RV-9 empennage
>>
>>
>
>
>--------------
--
Matt
. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com |
Message-Id: <004e01c14559$2d8855c0$02010a0a@flugfelagid.com>
| Subject: | Re: !!new RV messageboard!! |
Well Im using the "lists" and do not intend to stop scaning them untill
something much better comes along.
I am not in anyway in any form of competition with Matt.
jeez I thought I was doing something good here....
And if Matt is going to improve the "lists" it would all benefit us all.
-Thor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: !!new RV messageboard!!
>
>
> I've always just called it "The Lists". As for online browsing, stay
> tuned, I've been working on a little something that should intergate
> well into the existing utilities...
>
> Matt
>
>
> >--------------
> >
> >What do you call the RV-List? With the archives, it is better than a
> >message board.
> >
> >
> ood luck with your new offering. Personally you are dong a lot of work,
> >and I think you should be using the matronics rv-list if you are serious
> >about focused rv chatter. Just my opinion.
> >
> >Larry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> >To:
> >Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 8:12 PM
> >Subject: RV7-List: !!new RV messageboard!!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> To the best of my knowledge the RV community has not untill now had a
> >> "real" messageboard.
> >>
> >> So I started one!
> >>
> >> you can access it here
> >> http://www.flugfelagid.com/ffmessageb/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi
> >>
> >> or go through our web www.flugfelagid.com (on the menu click
> >> messageboard and it opens in a separate window)
> >>
> >> I hope in time it will be frequented and thus become highly useful and
> >> entertaining for everyone.
> >>
> >> To post you will need to register.
> >>
> >> Thor Hardarson
> >> Iceland
> >>
> >> Building a RV-9 empennage
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--------------
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt
> . Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
>
> Benjamin Franklin
> Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
I'm using Avery's swivel flush rivet set on my empennage skins, but somehow
the skin is getting "scuffed" a bit around the rivet. It's purely cosmetic,
but it's annoying and I'm wondering if there's a way to avoid it.
I remember hearing about people shaving off a little rubber from the swivel
set...was the purpose to avoid the scuffing? Or does it have to do with my
wife's nails getting in the way and not letting her hold the set firmly in
place (she's shooting, I'm bucking)? Or is it something completely
different?
Any advice is much appreciated.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N747DC
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
Dan are you using rivet tape to protect the driving end?
John Adams
RV7
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV7-List: Scuffing
I'm using Avery's swivel flush rivet set on my empennage skins, but somehow
the skin is getting "scuffed" a bit around the rivet. It's purely cosmetic,
but it's annoying and I'm wondering if there's a way to avoid it.
I remember hearing about people shaving off a little rubber from the swivel
set...was the purpose to avoid the scuffing? Or does it have to do with my
wife's nails getting in the way and not letting her hold the set firmly in
place (she's shooting, I'm bucking)? Or is it something completely
different?
Any advice is much appreciated.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N747DC
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brooks Wolfe <slipstream(at)qwest.net> |
I noticed that same thing on my skins when using Avery's swivel flush rivet
set. I also tried out Cleaveland's flush set, which is smaller and doesn't have
that rubber guard at all, with much cleaner results. (Or perhaps I was just
getting better. :) ). I think for me it helped to actually see everything I was
doing without the rubber guard in the way.
Brooks
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> I'm using Avery's swivel flush rivet set on my empennage skins, but somehow
> the skin is getting "scuffed" a bit around the rivet. It's purely cosmetic,
> but it's annoying and I'm wondering if there's a way to avoid it.
>
> I remember hearing about people shaving off a little rubber from the swivel
> set...was the purpose to avoid the scuffing? Or does it have to do with my
> wife's nails getting in the way and not letting her hold the set firmly in
> place (she's shooting, I'm bucking)? Or is it something completely
> different?
>
> Any advice is much appreciated.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N747DC
> dan(at)rvproject.com
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Scuffing SEC: UNCLASSIFIED |
I used to get scuffing, there are 3 things you can do to avoid it:
a. push harder on the rivet gun.
b. insert the rivets, then put 3m removable tape along the line of rivets
and rivet.
c. keep the end of the rubber ring and the set clean. Teh rubber ring can
pick up swarf, and the set can pick up anti-corrosion cream that I use on
external rivets.
Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks Wolfe [mailto:slipstream(at)qwest.net]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Scuffing
I noticed that same thing on my skins when using Avery's swivel flush rivet
set. I also tried out Cleaveland's flush set, which is smaller and doesn't
have
that rubber guard at all, with much cleaner results. (Or perhaps I was just
getting better. :) ). I think for me it helped to actually see everything I
was
doing without the rubber guard in the way.
Brooks
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> I'm using Avery's swivel flush rivet set on my empennage skins, but
somehow
> the skin is getting "scuffed" a bit around the rivet. It's purely
cosmetic,
> but it's annoying and I'm wondering if there's a way to avoid it.
>
> I remember hearing about people shaving off a little rubber from the
swivel
> set...was the purpose to avoid the scuffing? Or does it have to do with
my
> wife's nails getting in the way and not letting her hold the set firmly in
> place (she's shooting, I'm bucking)? Or is it something completely
> different?
>
> Any advice is much appreciated.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N747DC
> dan(at)rvproject.com
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Cradling/supporting HS |
Last night I completed my RV-7's horizontal stab. Woohoo! Now I need to
get it the heck out of the way. I wanted to get various opinions about the
preferred way to store it while I move on to other things.
Put it on a shelf? Support it on a wall by the exposed mid-section of the
spar(s)? Hang it on a wall via hold-down straps? Make a gigantic
weathervane on top of my house?
Any suggestions are appreciated.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N747DC
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Mosher" <tmosher(at)gbronline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cradling/supporting HS |
You could always hang it from the ceiling - that way it's truly out of the
way and the risk of someone bumping into it is reduced. That is, if you have
the room to hang it from the ceiling and have sufficient head-room.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Cradling/supporting HS
>
> Last night I completed my RV-7's horizontal stab. Woohoo! Now I need to
> get it the heck out of the way. I wanted to get various opinions about
the
> preferred way to store it while I move on to other things.
>
> Put it on a shelf? Support it on a wall by the exposed mid-section of the
> spar(s)? Hang it on a wall via hold-down straps? Make a gigantic
> weathervane on top of my house?
>
> Any suggestions are appreciated.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N747DC
> dan(at)rvproject.com
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV7-LIST: The mystery of the missing rivet |
Guys:
I notice the holes in the front spar of the HS on
each side of center are to be dimpled on the skin,
countersunk on the 610/614. So far, so good. But the
plans say to use an AN426AD4-6.
In my emp kit, I didn't get a bag of AN426AD4-6,
but I do have a bag of "miscellaneous rivets", mostly
flush head and a couple of pop rivets, it appears.
A quick eyeball suggests there's three different
sizes in there. Does anyone know what the sizes of the
rivets are in there? I'm guessing one of 'ems a 4-6,
but I don't want to guess which?
Bob Collins
St. Paul
(Under the enhanced MSP "Class B" and grounded. But if
I were a student pilot, I COULD fly. Go figure THAT
logic!)
http://phone.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-LIST: The mystery of the missing rivet |
Bob,
According to my emp hardware bag packing list the
only AN426AD4-6 rivets -are- the ones in the "misc
rivets" bag (bag number 412). I would guess those
are the ones you need to use.
-- Dwight (who is almost at that point in
the emp construction himself .... )
Bob Collins writes :
>
>
>
> Guys:
> I notice the holes in the front spar of the HS on
> each side of center are to be dimpled on the skin,
> countersunk on the 610/614. So far, so good. But the
> plans say to use an AN426AD4-6.
>
> In my emp kit, I didn't get a bag of AN426AD4-6,
> but I do have a bag of "miscellaneous rivets", mostly
> flush head and a couple of pop rivets, it appears.
>
> A quick eyeball suggests there's three different
> sizes in there. Does anyone know what the sizes of the
> rivets are in there? I'm guessing one of 'ems a 4-6,
> but I don't want to guess which?
>
> Bob Collins
> St. Paul
>
> (Under the enhanced MSP "Class B" and grounded. But if
> I were a student pilot, I COULD fly. Go figure THAT
> logic!)
>
>
> http://phone.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org> |
| Subject: | HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof) |
In the directions where they are talking about putting the
two HS-602 front HS spar channels together ... they say that
"a gap between the inboard ends of the HS-602 channels is
acceptable".
My question is ... will there be a problem if there is NOT a
gap? When I measure (and I have measured repeatedly) the
overall length, I actually have them slightly -long- when
there is NO gap. Should I trim? If I trim, should I make sure
to leave a gap? Has anyone had their be am almost perfect
fit out of the box??
-- Dwight (who might be calling Van's tomorrow
to check if nobody here is sure ... )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alison and Neil" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof) |
Dwight,
Mine fit together perfectly with no gap.
Neil Dwight McLeod
RV-7, rudder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dwight Frye" <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: RV7-List: HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof)
>
> In the directions where they are talking about putting the
> two HS-602 front HS spar channels together ... they say that
> "a gap between the inboard ends of the HS-602 channels is
> acceptable".
>
> My question is ... will there be a problem if there is NOT a
> gap? When I measure (and I have measured repeatedly) the
> overall length, I actually have them slightly -long- when
> there is NO gap. Should I trim? If I trim, should I make sure
> to leave a gap? Has anyone had their be am almost perfect
> fit out of the box??
>
> -- Dwight (who might be calling Van's tomorrow
> to check if nobody here is sure ... )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "peter decraene" <peterdecraene(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof) |
Dwight
My spar went together with no gap and turn out to be the perfect lenght after bending
and mating to the ribs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dwight Frye" <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: RV7-List: HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof)
>
> In the directions where they are talking about putting the
> two HS-602 front HS spar channels together ... they say that
> "a gap between the inboard ends of the HS-602 channels is
> acceptable".
>
> My question is ... will there be a problem if there is NOT a
> gap? When I measure (and I have measured repeatedly) the
> overall length, I actually have them slightly -long- when
> there is NO gap. Should I trim? If I trim, should I make sure
> to leave a gap? Has anyone had their be am almost perfect
> fit out of the box??
>
> -- Dwight (who might be calling Van's tomorrow
> to check if nobody here is sure ... )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-LIST: The mystery of the missing rivet |
The "Empennage Hardware Bag List" tells all. Bag 412 (for the 4, 7/7A,
8/8A) contains:
.03 lbs AN426AD4-6
.02 lbs AN426AD4-7
.02 lbs AN426AD4-8
12 rivets MSP-42 (repl MD-42-BS)
You have to sort through the -6, -7, and -8 length rivets yourself. Just
stick 'em next to each other and it should be obvious which ones are which.
If not, you could always use a rivet length gauge.
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dwight Frye" <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7-LIST: The mystery of the missing rivet
>
> Bob,
>
> According to my emp hardware bag packing list the
> only AN426AD4-6 rivets -are- the ones in the "misc
> rivets" bag (bag number 412). I would guess those
> are the ones you need to use.
>
> -- Dwight (who is almost at that point in
> the emp construction himself .... )
>
> Bob Collins writes :
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys:
> > I notice the holes in the front spar of the HS on
> > each side of center are to be dimpled on the skin,
> > countersunk on the 610/614. So far, so good. But the
> > plans say to use an AN426AD4-6.
> >
> > In my emp kit, I didn't get a bag of AN426AD4-6,
> > but I do have a bag of "miscellaneous rivets", mostly
> > flush head and a couple of pop rivets, it appears.
> >
> > A quick eyeball suggests there's three different
> > sizes in there. Does anyone know what the sizes of the
> > rivets are in there? I'm guessing one of 'ems a 4-6,
> > but I don't want to guess which?
> >
> > Bob Collins
> > St. Paul
> >
> > (Under the enhanced MSP "Class B" and grounded. But if
> > I were a student pilot, I COULD fly. Go figure THAT
> > logic!)
> >
> >
> > http://phone.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
I have finished my horizontal and vertical stabilizers and so I have a set
of Avery brackets used to mount your frames for sale, slightly used. I
think I paid about $30. I'll sell them to the next guy for $20. Gee, I
hope I will not need them later on.
BTW, there is an easy note to miss on the vertical stabilizer. There are
some rivets on the bottom which should be left out. I saw the note just in
time.
John Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof) SEC: UNCLASSIFIED |
Dwight,
Check the drawing and the instructions.
The critical dimension is the span between the two end ribs. If it is too
wide then you need to trim, if it is ok then do nothing. If it is too short
then move the spar channels out and create a gap.
Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dwight Frye [mailto:dwight(at)openweave.org]
Subject: RV7-List: HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof)
In the directions where they are talking about putting the
two HS-602 front HS spar channels together ... they say that
"a gap between the inboard ends of the HS-602 channels is
acceptable".
My question is ... will there be a problem if there is NOT a
gap? When I measure (and I have measured repeatedly) the
overall length, I actually have them slightly -long- when
there is NO gap. Should I trim? If I trim, should I make sure
to leave a gap? Has anyone had their be am almost perfect
fit out of the box??
-- Dwight (who might be calling Van's tomorrow
to check if nobody here is sure ... )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof) |
Mine had a small gap. Don't worry about it. If it is the right length then
it is correct.
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings
Houston, Texas
http://www.myrv7.com
Takeoffs are optional, Landings are mandatory.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dwight Frye" <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: RV7-List: HS-602 Gap (or lack thereof)
>
> In the directions where they are talking about putting the
> two HS-602 front HS spar channels together ... they say that
> "a gap between the inboard ends of the HS-602 channels is
> acceptable".
>
> My question is ... will there be a problem if there is NOT a
> gap? When I measure (and I have measured repeatedly) the
> overall length, I actually have them slightly -long- when
> there is NO gap. Should I trim? If I trim, should I make sure
> to leave a gap? Has anyone had their be am almost perfect
> fit out of the box??
>
> -- Dwight (who might be calling Van's tomorrow
> to check if nobody here is sure ... )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Any others with this problem? |
| From: | Scott and Pam Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org> |
Hi,
I just sent this to the tech support for RV and thought I would put it out
there for your comments as well. What do you guys think?
I'm working on the elevator now and when I attach the spar to the skins (as
per instructions) I find that I am about 1/2 hole off on half of the section
and that there are bulges between clecos. If I start putting the clecos in
on the thick side, moving outward, I get halfway across and the holes are
1/2 a hole off. What is your suggestion? Should I drill those holes out,
working from the thick end?
Thanks. Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Any others with this problem? |
So far on my plane every hole has lined up perfectly. Sounds like either
the spar or the skin slipped in the turret punch while it was being
fabricated. It happens. If you swap the spars and skins around, (left
to the right and visa-versa) you should be able to determine which part
is inaccurate and then have Van's replace it.
I would be interested to hear how Van's responds to this.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7 N989WT (Wings)
gcoonan(at)home.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott and Pam
Trask
Subject: RV7-List: Any others with this problem?
Hi,
I just sent this to the tech support for RV and thought I would put it
out
there for your comments as well. What do you guys think?
I'm working on the elevator now and when I attach the spar to the skins
(as
per instructions) I find that I am about 1/2 hole off on half of the
section
and that there are bulges between clecos. If I start putting the clecos
in
on the thick side, moving outward, I get halfway across and the holes
are
1/2 a hole off. What is your suggestion? Should I drill those holes
out,
working from the thick end?
Thanks. Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Any others with this problem? SEC: UNCLASSIFIED |
Scott, this does not sound good. Manufacturing inaccuracies of this nature
are rare from Vans. Some replacement components seem in order.
You need to eliminate bulges between clecos. If Vans wont replace the
components then try a few clecos in the middle and progressivele drill
outwards, putting clecos in each drilled out hole. If the holes go oval,
then you need to drill out to the next size rivet. And you will need to buy
a stock of oversized rivets in due course.
Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott and Pam Trask [mailto:PTrask(at)diisd.org]
Subject: RV7-List: Any others with this problem?
Hi,
I
I'm working on the elevator now and when I attach the spar to the skins (as
per instructions) I find that I am about 1/2 hole off on half of the section
and that there are bulges between clecos.
If I start putting the clecos in
on the thick side, moving outward, I get halfway across and the holes are
1/2 a hole off. What is your suggestion? Should I drill those holes out,
working from the thick end?
Thanks. Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
This message is just to bitch about how bad Van's instructions were for the
RV-7 rudder skeleton construction. I think there's a good chance I missed
something simple, but here goes.
Obviously in the RV-7, the spar and reinforcement plates come pre-drilled.
So this should be trivial. But the lower rib flange does not. Here's my
gripe.
The instructions say to put a 3/8" bolt through the control horn and the
spar, leaving it finger tight. Then, get this...it says to just "slide" the
rib flange under there and drill. What the #@*(&?! Whatever. How are you
supposed to slide the flange in there when a 3/8" bolt is blocking the way?
Duh.
Before you answer, here's what I did...whether it's wrong or not, it worked.
First, I clecoed the upper row of 3 holes of the reinforcement plate to the
spar. I put the bolt through the plate, spar, and horn, and tightened
it...tight, not finger tight, so that the horn wouldn't rotate on it. Since
the horn didn't come pre-drilled, there was no way to cleco it. Just clamps
and the bolt. I then drilled the 1/8" rivet holes through the control horn
using the plate as a template, clecoing as I went. Once that was done, I
disassembled all of this.
I drew a centerline along the rib flange and clamped it to the spar, as if
none of the other components would go there. I drilled the 4 holes through
those parts (two outer rivet holes plus two holes where the nut plate goes).
While I was at it, I "traced" the outline of the 3/8" hole onto the rib
flange.
Now, 20-20 hindsight...I figure I could have just trimmed away enough
material from the rib flange where the bolt goes so that it *could* have
slid under the control horn and around that bolt hole. That would have
alleviated all these steps. But at this point I had gone so far to get the
bolt hole in the flange, etc. So I drilled out the center of the 3/8" hole
on the rib and used a unibit to step it out to just over 3/8".
Ok...then there's the issue of the .032" spacer. The instructions don't say
diddly about it. Not that it was difficult to figure it out, but I was a
little frustrated with all this ambiguity in one spot.
Anyway, that's my deal. I got through it no problem, but it was a little
confusing at first. Ok, now I'm open for slapping around. Feel free to
tell me there's something completely obvious that I missed. 8
)
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
I did something similar, clecoed the bottom of the assembly, removed the
bolt, slid in the rib and traced the hole, drilled with unibit. I agree the
instructions are confusing in many places. They seem to be added on to and
edited from older versions of different kits, disappointing.
Neil
-7 rudder almost done
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
>
> This message is just to bitch about how bad Van's instructions were for
the
> RV-7 rudder skeleton construction. I think there's a good chance I missed
> something simple, but here goes.
>
> Obviously in the RV-7, the spar and reinforcement plates come pre-drilled.
> So this should be trivial. But the lower rib flange does not. Here's my
> gripe.
>
> The instructions say to put a 3/8" bolt through the control horn and the
> spar, leaving it finger tight. Then, get this...it says to just "slide"
the
> rib flange under there and drill. What the #@*(&?! Whatever. How are
you
> supposed to slide the flange in there when a 3/8" bolt is blocking the
way?
> Duh.
>
> Before you answer, here's what I did...whether it's wrong or not, it
worked.
>
> First, I clecoed the upper row of 3 holes of the reinforcement plate to
the
> spar. I put the bolt through the plate, spar, and horn, and tightened
> it...tight, not finger tight, so that the horn wouldn't rotate on it.
Since
> the horn didn't come pre-drilled, there was no way to cleco it. Just
clamps
> and the bolt. I then drilled the 1/8" rivet holes through the control
horn
> using the plate as a template, clecoing as I went. Once that was done, I
> disassembled all of this.
>
> I drew a centerline along the rib flange and clamped it to the spar, as if
> none of the other components would go there. I drilled the 4 holes
through
> those parts (two outer rivet holes plus two holes where the nut plate
goes).
> While I was at it, I "traced" the outline of the 3/8" hole onto the rib
> flange.
>
> Now, 20-20 hindsight...I figure I could have just trimmed away enough
> material from the rib flange where the bolt goes so that it *could* have
> slid under the control horn and around that bolt hole. That would have
> alleviated all these steps. But at this point I had gone so far to get
the
> bolt hole in the flange, etc. So I drilled out the center of the 3/8"
hole
> on the rib and used a unibit to step it out to just over 3/8".
>
> Ok...then there's the issue of the .032" spacer. The instructions don't
say
> diddly about it. Not that it was difficult to figure it out, but I was a
> little frustrated with all this ambiguity in one spot.
>
> Anyway, that's my deal. I got through it no problem, but it was a little
> confusing at first. Ok, now I'm open for slapping around. Feel free to
> tell me there's something completely obvious that I missed. 8
)
>
> )_( Dan
> dan(at)rvproject.com
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
>Now, 20-20 hindsight...I figure I could have just trimmed away enough
>material from the rib flange where the bolt goes so that it *could* have
>slid under the control horn and around that bolt hole. That would have
>alleviated all these steps.
>
>Ok...then there's the issue of the .032" spacer. The instructions don't say
>diddly about it. Not that it was difficult to figure it out, but I was a
>little frustrated with all this ambiguity in one spot.
>
This was one area where the Orndorff video really helped. Whenever George
sez "now this part is a little tricky..." it's time to watch it twice. He
did recommend trimming away the rib flange and showed how to fabricate that
pesky spacer. (on the other hand, as noted in a previous post, George then
goes on to demonstrate how to rivet the rudder horn on the wrong side ;-) ).
-Dan Masys
RV-7A N868DM elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
Do not know what all the pre-7ners are doing but Orndorff's videos are
great. My wings are going much smoother than the empennage did now that
I am watching the tapes. Got a VCR set up in the garage and hit
play/stop then rivet. The other thing that has helped me, is I
relaxingly study the drawings while watching TV a couple of nights
before I start the next section. But when all else fails go by the
drawings.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7 N989WT (Wings)
gcoonan(at)home.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Masys,
M.D.
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
>Now, 20-20 hindsight...I figure I could have just trimmed away enough
>material from the rib flange where the bolt goes so that it *could*
have
>slid under the control horn and around that bolt hole. That would have
>alleviated all these steps.
>
>Ok...then there's the issue of the .032" spacer. The instructions
don't say
>diddly about it. Not that it was difficult to figure it out, but I was
a
>little frustrated with all this ambiguity in one spot.
>
This was one area where the Orndorff video really helped. Whenever
George
sez "now this part is a little tricky..." it's time to watch it twice.
He
did recommend trimming away the rib flange and showed how to fabricate
that
pesky spacer. (on the other hand, as noted in a previous post, George
then
goes on to demonstrate how to rivet the rudder horn on the wrong side
;-) ).
-Dan Masys
RV-7A N868DM elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
What's the cheapest way to acquire the Orndorff videos?
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com>
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
>
> Do not know what all the pre-7ners are doing but Orndorff's videos are
> great. My wings are going much smoother than the empennage did now that
> I am watching the tapes. Got a VCR set up in the garage and hit
> play/stop then rivet. The other thing that has helped me, is I
> relaxingly study the drawings while watching TV a couple of nights
> before I start the next section. But when all else fails go by the
> drawings.
>
> Gary Coonan
> Rockvale, TN
> RV-7 N989WT (Wings)
> gcoonan(at)home.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Masys,
> M.D.
> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
>
>
>
> >Now, 20-20 hindsight...I figure I could have just trimmed away enough
> >material from the rib flange where the bolt goes so that it *could*
> have
> >slid under the control horn and around that bolt hole. That would have
> >alleviated all these steps.
> >
> >Ok...then there's the issue of the .032" spacer. The instructions
> don't say
> >diddly about it. Not that it was difficult to figure it out, but I was
> a
> >little frustrated with all this ambiguity in one spot.
> >
>
> This was one area where the Orndorff video really helped. Whenever
> George
> sez "now this part is a little tricky..." it's time to watch it twice.
> He
> did recommend trimming away the rib flange and showed how to fabricate
> that
> pesky spacer. (on the other hand, as noted in a previous post, George
> then
> goes on to demonstrate how to rivet the rudder horn on the wrong side
> ;-) ).
>
> -Dan Masys
> RV-7A N868DM elevators
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
Yes I have been working with the tape on my -7 wings. The 7 & 8 are the
same wing. The only difference on the tape is the tie down bracket and
the ribs on the 8 are not pre-punched. Other than that it has been
exactly the same. The 7 fuselage is not complete yet. And you are
right minimize is correct. But it would not be a great accomplishment
if it was easy.
I am an engineer and have designed many products and have written many
owner manuals and instructions. As hard as I try to be clear and follow
a logical pattern, we always get call on how do I do this and that.
What you think is so crystal clear to you, just is not to some one that
has never seen it before. So though the instructions are not that
clear, I do not think I could do a better job. I just do not have a
high expectation for the instructions making everything simple for me,
therefore I do not get frustrated. It gets easier as you go as long as
you do not get to anal about it. I guess that is what this e-mail list
is for.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7 N989WT (Wings)
gcoonan(at)home.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ellis H Mcgaughy [mailto:Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)USA.dupont.com]
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
Is there a tape available for the RV7 wings? I didn't think George had
a
tape yet of the prepunched wings / fuse. And, a fellow builder told me
the
sequence was much different on the 7 than was the 6.
I long for information .... and study quite a bit before working .... to
help minimize (notice I didn't say eliminate!) errors. I've already had
a
few.
Ellis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
So, Gary, which tape does one use? Buy?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Coonan [mailto:gcoonan(at)home.com]
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
Yes I have been working with the tape on my -7 wings. The 7 & 8 are the
same wing. The only difference on the tape is the tie down bracket and
the ribs on the 8 are not pre-punched. Other than that it has been
exactly the same. The 7 fuselage is not complete yet. And you are
right minimize is correct. But it would not be a great accomplishment
if it was easy.
I am an engineer and have designed many products and have written many
owner manuals and instructions. As hard as I try to be clear and follow
a logical pattern, we always get call on how do I do this and that.
What you think is so crystal clear to you, just is not to some one that
has never seen it before. So though the instructions are not that
clear, I do not think I could do a better job. I just do not have a
high expectation for the instructions making everything simple for me,
therefore I do not get frustrated. It gets easier as you go as long as
you do not get to anal about it. I guess that is what this e-mail list
is for.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7 N989WT (Wings)
gcoonan(at)home.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ellis H Mcgaughy [mailto:Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)USA.dupont.com]
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
Is there a tape available for the RV7 wings? I didn't think George had
a
tape yet of the prepunched wings / fuse. And, a fellow builder told me
the
sequence was much different on the 7 than was the 6.
I long for information .... and study quite a bit before working .... to
help minimize (notice I didn't say eliminate!) errors. I've already had
a
few.
Ellis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brooks Wolfe <slipstream(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
I bought a video "How to" series from Builder's Bookstore that tends to
clarify these issues. I read the instructions, watch how an old hand does
it on the video (sometimes there's quite a difference in step progression),
then do it myself.
Brooks
>
>This message is just to bitch about how bad Van's instructions were for the
>RV-7 rudder skeleton construction. I think there's a good chance I missed
>something simple, but here goes.
>
>Obviously in the RV-7, the spar and reinforcement plates come pre-drilled.
>So this should be trivial. But the lower rib flange does not. Here's my
>gripe.
>
>The instructions say to put a 3/8" bolt through the control horn and the
>spar, leaving it finger tight. Then, get this...it says to just "slide" the
>rib flange under there and drill. What the #@*(&?! Whatever. How are you
>supposed to slide the flange in there when a 3/8" bolt is blocking the way?
>Duh.
>
>Before you answer, here's what I did...whether it's wrong or not, it worked.
>
>First, I clecoed the upper row of 3 holes of the reinforcement plate to the
>spar. I put the bolt through the plate, spar, and horn, and tightened
>it...tight, not finger tight, so that the horn wouldn't rotate on it. Since
>the horn didn't come pre-drilled, there was no way to cleco it. Just clamps
>and the bolt. I then drilled the 1/8" rivet holes through the control horn
>using the plate as a template, clecoing as I went. Once that was done, I
>disassembled all of this.
>
>I drew a centerline along the rib flange and clamped it to the spar, as if
>none of the other components would go there. I drilled the 4 holes through
>those parts (two outer rivet holes plus two holes where the nut plate goes).
>While I was at it, I "traced" the outline of the 3/8" hole onto the rib
>flange.
>
>Now, 20-20 hindsight...I figure I could have just trimmed away enough
>material from the rib flange where the bolt goes so that it *could* have
>slid under the control horn and around that bolt hole. That would have
>alleviated all these steps. But at this point I had gone so far to get the
>bolt hole in the flange, etc. So I drilled out the center of the 3/8" hole
>on the rib and used a unibit to step it out to just over 3/8".
>
>Ok...then there's the issue of the .032" spacer. The instructions don't say
>diddly about it. Not that it was difficult to figure it out, but I was a
>little frustrated with all this ambiguity in one spot.
>
>Anyway, that's my deal. I got through it no problem, but it was a little
>confusing at first. Ok, now I'm open for slapping around. Feel free to
>tell me there's something completely obvious that I missed. 8
)
>
>)_( Dan
>dan(at)rvproject.com
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NormanRMorse(at)aol.com |
URL for George and Becki Orndorff --- http://www.fly-gbi.com/
All of the problems I have seen posted are explained in George and Becki
Orndorff's videos. I got the 6PP empennage set and they work just fine.
7AQB in the garage (SN13 - should I worry?) Trying to stop traveling so much
so I can finish the empennage.
N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adm-Gary Coonan <gcoonan(at)stingerindustries.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions |
You can go to http://www.fly-gbi.com/ and find the ones that you want. You
can have mine when I am finished 6-8 weeks from now.
Sincerely,
Gary M. Coonan .
RV-7
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
So, Gary, which tape does one use? Buy?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Coonan [mailto:gcoonan(at)home.com]
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
Yes I have been working with the tape on my -7 wings. The 7 & 8 are the
same wing. The only difference on the tape is the tie down bracket and
the ribs on the 8 are not pre-punched. Other than that it has been
exactly the same. The 7 fuselage is not complete yet. And you are
right minimize is correct. But it would not be a great accomplishment
if it was easy.
I am an engineer and have designed many products and have written many
owner manuals and instructions. As hard as I try to be clear and follow
a logical pattern, we always get call on how do I do this and that.
What you think is so crystal clear to you, just is not to some one that
has never seen it before. So though the instructions are not that
clear, I do not think I could do a better job. I just do not have a
high expectation for the instructions making everything simple for me,
therefore I do not get frustrated. It gets easier as you go as long as
you do not get to anal about it. I guess that is what this e-mail list
is for.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7 N989WT (Wings)
gcoonan(at)home.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ellis H Mcgaughy [mailto:Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)USA.dupont.com]
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Rudder control horn -- bogus instructions
Is there a tape available for the RV7 wings? I didn't think George had
a
tape yet of the prepunched wings / fuse. And, a fellow builder told me
the
sequence was much different on the 7 than was the 6.
I long for information .... and study quite a bit before working .... to
help minimize (notice I didn't say eliminate!) errors. I've already had
a
few.
Ellis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Wiring through VS |
I'm about to rivet the skin onto my vertical stab, and I want to make damned
well sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot wiring-wise.
I opted for the lower rudder fairing with the "light provision". What kind
of wiring should I plan for that? Do I need to route it up through the root
rib of the VS and then through the VS' rear spar, or can I run it
under/around the VS somehow?
Thanks,
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | problems riveting VS skin to rear spar |
I hit a stumbling block tonight. Got the VS spar & center rib riveted up on
both sides, no prob. Got the VS off the jig onto the workbench for
finishing the edges...squeezing those rivets. Cool, except most of the
rivets along the rear spar are nearly impossible to squeeze with the tools
I've got. The problem is that the shop heads on the stiffener/spar rivets
are getting in the way. They don't allow the yoke (Tatco, Avery, etc.) to
get close enough to even nearly center up on the shop heads of the skin
rivets.
I ground off a bit of the end of one of my yokes, and that improved the
situation by allowing the yoke to get *slightly* closer, but I'm still
getting a slightly slanted shop head. Within tolerance, but I want it to be
better. Am I correct in assuming that the various solutions would be:
a) get one of those thin, dieless yokes (this seems ideal?)
b) get some sort of thinned-out ViseGrip squeezer
c) attempt to buck these rivets
What do you guys think is the best option? Looking back, I suppose I should
have reversed those stiffener/spar rivets, putting the machine head on the
rear! Duh...20-20 hindsight, oh well.
Any advice is appreciated.
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | problems riveting VS skin to rear |
spar
Dan,
Convention is that you put the shop head on the thinner sheet, ie on the
inside. Best result will ocme form either the thin nose, no hole yoke, or
buck the rivets. I bucked the whole lot just to get my expertise up and did
well.
The thin nose yoke is indispensible when dealig with the rivets near the
trailing edges of the control surfaces.
Another note, I riveted the VS in the jig, just to make sure it did not
twist at all, remebering that bucking rivets is a fairly brutal treatment.
When bucking bars are in close spaces they scratch things, so use masking
tape liberally on the bars. When using a bucking bar inside a closed space,
put some rags or foam inside, so if you drop the bar it wont ding the skins
on its way down!
Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV7-List: problems riveting VS skin to rear spar
The problem is that the shop heads on the stiffener/spar rivets
are getting in the way. They don't allow the yoke (Tatco, Avery, etc.) to
get close enough to even nearly center up on the shop heads of the skin
rivets.
better. Am I correct in assuming that the various solutions would be:
a) get one of those thin, dieless yokes (this seems ideal?)
b) get some sort of thinned-out ViseGrip squeezer
c) attempt to buck these rivets
What do you guys think is the best option? Looking back, I suppose I should
have reversed those stiffener/spar rivets, putting the machine head on the
rear! Duh...20-20 hindsight, oh well.
Any advice is appreciated.
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alison and Neil" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: problems riveting VS skin to rear |
spar
Just a slight quibble, Van's instruction manual says the rule of thumb is
the manufactured head goes on the thinner piece although they haven't seen
any problems with those done the other way around. I squeezed mine,
manufactured head out on the spar, without major difficulty with a standard
Avery 1-1/2" yoke. The rivets near the reinforcement plates were a bit tight
but I got acceptable heads using the edge of the die. The small yoke does
seem to have much less deflection and works better when the die is not
perfectly centered.
Neil
elevators as soon as I get back from vacation.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: problems riveting VS skin to rear
spar
>
> Dan,
> Convention is that you put the shop head on the thinner sheet, ie on the
> inside. Best result will ocme form either the thin nose, no hole yoke, or
> buck the rivets. I bucked the whole lot just to get my expertise up and
did
> well.
>
> The thin nose yoke is indispensible when dealig with the rivets near the
> trailing edges of the control surfaces.
>
> Another note, I riveted the VS in the jig, just to make sure it did not
> twist at all, remebering that bucking rivets is a fairly brutal treatment.
> When bucking bars are in close spaces they scratch things, so use masking
> tape liberally on the bars. When using a bucking bar inside a closed
space,
> put some rags or foam inside, so if you drop the bar it wont ding the
skins
> on its way down!
>
> Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com;
> SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV7-List: problems riveting VS skin to rear spar
>
>
> The problem is that the shop heads on the stiffener/spar rivets
> are getting in the way. They don't allow the yoke (Tatco, Avery, etc.) to
> get close enough to even nearly center up on the shop heads of the skin
> rivets.
>
>
> better. Am I correct in assuming that the various solutions would be:
>
> a) get one of those thin, dieless yokes (this seems ideal?)
>
> b) get some sort of thinned-out ViseGrip squeezer
>
> c) attempt to buck these rivets
>
> What do you guys think is the best option? Looking back, I suppose I
should
> have reversed those stiffener/spar rivets, putting the machine head on the
> rear! Duh...20-20 hindsight, oh well.
>
> Any advice is appreciated.
>
> )_( Dan
> dan(at)rvproject.com
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danilevicius<rv7a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | My new EarthLink email address |
Hi. I wanted to let you know that I've switched to EarthLink for my Internet access,
and I now have a new email address.
So please send all email to my new EarthLink email address:
rv7a(at)earthlink.net
I don't want to miss any of your messages, so please take a moment to write down
my new address and add it to your email address book.
Thanks!
Linas
P.S. My old email address was (DrLargo(at)msn.com)
********************************
EarthLink - It's your Internet
http://www.earthlink.net/
********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry M Rhea" <rv6larry(at)dslextreme.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument dampening |
I just received my long awaited electric artificial horizon and have a
question for the group.
Installation instructions require instrument panel dampening to avoid
voiding warranty. How have others accomplished this task.
Thanks
Larry
(Maybe I need to install one of those smooth running Soobs?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starting Wing - Question |
Just when you think you know it all (just finished the emp) some thing new
comes up like ..... BUILDING THE REST OF THE PLANE!!
Really though, I have a few dumb questions as I start my QB wings .....
The brass bushing which goes inside the bell crank to hold the long AN4-32A
bolt. I assume I have to ream it out a little since the bolt won't go
through. What size drill??
Same bolt where it attaches to the W 823 bellcrank bracket. Bolts should go
in from the top down - can't do this since the top skin is on. If I remove
the bracket to accomplish a top down insertion what is the torque value to
reinstall the bracket.
Last. Plans say to make the spacer which keeps the bellcrank to stick
pushrod in place from AT6 .058 x5/16 I have no such material. I do have
AT6 .058 x 3/8. Making the assumption that since it's just a spacer it
doesn't matter. Valid assumption? Or will I be falling out of the sky in a
crumpled mass of metal because I didn't follow the plans exactly?
John McDonnell (inexperienced builder, a sponge for knowledge)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Dag bern rivet tape...always splits! |
I've got a question about rivet tape...or more specifically Scotch magic
tape. Whenever I pull the tape off, as soon as it gets to the center of a
rivet, the tape invariably splits. That little dimple in the flush head
always trips the tape up. Sometimes I can wiggle the tape just right and
avoid it, but 90% of the time the tape splits and I have to start peeling
again. Not the end of the world, but I assume *somebody* out there knows a
trick or two.
I tried rubbing the tape on my shirt before I put it on, in hopes of taking
away some of the adhesion, but that seemed negligible.
Anybody got tape pulling mastered and want to comment?
Thanks,
)_( Dan
http://www.rvproject.com
N747DC RV-7 empennage (nearing completion)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <tgannon(at)stoneboat.com> |
| Subject: | Dag bern rivet tape...always splits! |
Dan -- one thing that you might try is to put the tape on so it only covers
have the rivet that you are trying to hold in...let us know if this helps...
Terry in Calgary
RV-6 S/N 24414
"Wings"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luethi, Matt" <matt(at)easports.com.au> |
| Subject: | Dag bern rivet tape...always splits! |
i did some experimenting today and found a real good solution: pvc duct
tape. it is about 2 inches wide and so prevents scratches I used to get when
back riveting. and is real easy to pull off. I was able to re-use the tape
around 5 times.
Matt (right elevator 50%)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
Subject: RV7-List: Dag bern rivet tape...always splits!
I've got a question about rivet tape...or more specifically Scotch magic
tape. Whenever I pull the tape off, as soon as it gets to the center of a
rivet, the tape invariably splits. That little dimple in the flush head
always trips the tape up. Sometimes I can wiggle the tape just right and
avoid it, but 90% of the time the tape splits and I have to start peeling
again. Not the end of the world, but I assume *somebody* out there knows a
trick or two.
I tried rubbing the tape on my shirt before I put it on, in hopes of taking
away some of the adhesion, but that seemed negligible.
Anybody got tape pulling mastered and want to comment?
Thanks,
)_( Dan
http://www.rvproject.com
N747DC RV-7 empennage (nearing completion)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luethi, Matt" <matt(at)easports.com.au> |
| Subject: | Dag bern rivet tape...always splits! |
can confirm this trick works as well - only cover half the rivet head with
tape.
-----Original Message-----
From: Terence Gannon [mailto:tgannon(at)stoneboat.com]
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Dag bern rivet tape...always splits!
Dan -- one thing that you might try is to put the tape on so it only covers
have the rivet that you are trying to hold in...let us know if this helps...
Terry in Calgary
RV-6 S/N 24414
"Wings"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dag bern rivet tape...always splits! |
you might want to try masking tape...one 2" strip works for about 5 rivets for
me...hope that helps....jolly in aurora, or..
RV8A..still finishing..
Terence Gannon wrote:
>
> Dan -- one thing that you might try is to put the tape on so it only covers
> have the rivet that you are trying to hold in...let us know if this helps...
>
> Terry in Calgary
> RV-6 S/N 24414
> "Wings"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <tgannon(at)stoneboat.com> |
| Subject: | Dag bern rivet tape...always splits! |
Just reread this...obviously, I meant "only covers HALF the rivet"...I
suspect people understand what I meant, but y'know...did not want to appear
completely illiterate!
So how did things work out, Dan?
Terry in Calgary
RV-6 S/N 24414
"Wings"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terence Gannon
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Dag bern rivet tape...always splits!
Dan -- one thing that you might try is to put the tape on so it only covers
have the rivet that you are trying to hold in...let us know if this helps...
Terry in Calgary
RV-6 S/N 24414
"Wings"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dag bern rivet tape...always splits! |
I'm told that one roll of the "real" rivet tape that Vans sells will do the
entire plane... It's re-usable, has no adhesive down the middle, etc. The
problem with all the "full adhesive" tapes is that you drive adhesive down
into the little nooks and crannies of the join, so you have to spend time
cleaning adhesive off the surface after you've riveted. With the real stuff,
all you do is peel off the tape and move it to the next row of rivets.
I'm speaking from hearsay from two builders I know, not from personal
experience, though. YMMV. I ordered two rolls of the real stuff along with
my tail kit.
-Rob Prior
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> I've got a question about rivet tape...or more specifically Scotch magic
> tape. Whenever I pull the tape off, as soon as it gets to the center of a
> rivet, the tape invariably splits. That little dimple in the flush head
> always trips the tape up. Sometimes I can wiggle the tape just right and
> avoid it, but 90% of the time the tape splits and I have to start peeling
> again. Not the end of the world, but I assume *somebody* out there knows a
> trick or two.
>
> I tried rubbing the tape on my shirt before I put it on, in hopes of taking
> away some of the adhesion, but that seemed negligible.
>
> Anybody got tape pulling mastered and want to comment?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starting Wing - Question |
John,
Just catching up on the e-mail list and noticed no one replied to your
questions so here goes. I use a 1/4 inch reamer to open up the brass. If you
take the bracket lose to put the bolt in top down the torque is 25 inch
pounds. I am not sure that the bolt needs to go from the top down. And last
but not least it took me some time to find that piece of tubing to mine was
in one of the bags of stuff.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | riveting the trim tab spar |
Question...how the heck do you rivet the bottom of the elevator trim tab
spar?! I'm thinking the longeron yoke is my only shot, but that sure seems
funky, and I think the spar is actually too fat at the end. The plans seem
to call out AN426 rivets as opposed to blind rivets, but I wanted to check
with you guys before I did something stupid... Since they're on the
"inside" of the trim tab behind the spar, they seem pretty tough to get at.
Thanks,
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] riveting the trim tab spar |
And, by the way, a friend loaned me the Orndorff tape, and it doesn't say or
show a darn thing about this. He just glosses over the elevator trim tab
construction. What a ripoff...oh, wait it was free... 8
)
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: [SoCAL-RVlist] riveting the trim tab spar
> Question...how the heck do you rivet the bottom of the elevator trim tab
> spar?! I'm thinking the longeron yoke is my only shot, but that sure
seems
> funky, and I think the spar is actually too fat at the end. The plans
seem
> to call out AN426 rivets as opposed to blind rivets, but I wanted to check
> with you guys before I did something stupid... Since they're on the
> "inside" of the trim tab behind the spar, they seem pretty tough to get
at.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Here's a pic of the modified yoke:
http://www.rvproject.com/images/tools_ground_down_yoke.jpg
I estimate I ground about 1/8" off the tip of the 3" regular yoke to better
clear those spar rivets and hinge brackets. You kind of have to work the
angle at which you hold it, since there's a sweet spot with every rivet
where the yoke gets closest to on-center. I managed to squeeze the
skin-to-spar VS rivets with this modification.
To those builders not yet started on the VS...save yourself the hassle and
just put the machine head on the rear of the spar.
I think I might manufacture a modified vise grip with flush sets welded on,
but minimized to the smallest possible size both height- and width-wise. I
wonder if people would buy this...
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)USA.dupont.com>
Subject: Re: VS Rivets
> Dan,
>
> Yea, I'd really like to see a picture. BTW, your web site is super. I
> check it every day for updates. You are really moving along at light
> speed.
>
> I have several yokes including a 4 inch no-hole. I can't even get to the
> rivets outside of the bracket area (but are above the spar doubler) well.
> I ordered a 1" no-hole yoke today and had planned to grind on it.
>
> I'll be out of town for until Monday (after tonight) so you may not hear
> back from me before then. But, I'll be waiting for your pictures.
>
> I'm a little surprised we don't here more about this difficulty. Prior to
> you bringing it up (the rivet interference), I hadn't heard of anyone
> complaining .... and I search and read alot!
>
> Thanks for sharing all your info with folks like me!
>
> Ellis
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
Don't you want to put the machine head on the front side of the spar?
John Adams
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
Subject: RV7-List: Re: VS Rivets
Here's a pic of the modified yoke:
http://www.rvproject.com/images/tools_ground_down_yoke.jpg
I estimate I ground about 1/8" off the tip of the 3" regular yoke to better
clear those spar rivets and hinge brackets. You kind of have to work the
angle at which you hold it, since there's a sweet spot with every rivet
where the yoke gets closest to on-center. I managed to squeeze the
skin-to-spar VS rivets with this modification.
To those builders not yet started on the VS...save yourself the hassle and
just put the machine head on the rear of the spar.
I think I might manufacture a modified vise grip with flush sets welded on,
but minimized to the smallest possible size both height- and width-wise. I
wonder if people would buy this...
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)USA.dupont.com>
Subject: Re: VS Rivets
> Dan,
>
> Yea, I'd really like to see a picture. BTW, your web site is super. I
> check it every day for updates. You are really moving along at light
> speed.
>
> I have several yokes including a 4 inch no-hole. I can't even get to the
> rivets outside of the bracket area (but are above the spar doubler) well.
> I ordered a 1" no-hole yoke today and had planned to grind on it.
>
> I'll be out of town for until Monday (after tonight) so you may not hear
> back from me before then. But, I'll be waiting for your pictures.
>
> I'm a little surprised we don't here more about this difficulty. Prior to
> you bringing it up (the rivet interference), I hadn't heard of anyone
> complaining .... and I search and read alot!
>
> Thanks for sharing all your info with folks like me!
>
> Ellis
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | riveting the trim tab spar |
Dan,
I managed to use solid rivets on both sides. I cant quite remember all the
process, but I think I simply varied the build sequence stated in the manual
and did the bottom first. I cant remember whether I sqeezed or bucked them.
I had no real problems, it was easy I remember, having taken note that the
trim tab is the area vans see most ooops problems with.
When riveting the top I pull the rod out of the hinge, and rivet the halves
separately to the rear spar and the leading edge of the trim tab. The trim
tab is then installed on the elevator by re-inserting the rod in the hinge.
When cutting the hing to lenght remember the rod needs to be half inch
longer than the hinge so you can bend it over and lock wire it to prevent it
creeping in or out.
The hardest bit of the tab is neatly bending and riveting the left and right
sides. If you make a mess of it cut the tabs off and fabricate a false rib
and rivet it with the web inboard. This applies to the folded tab on the
left elevator also. Dont ask me how I know how to do it!
Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV7-List: riveting the trim tab spar
Question...how the heck do you rivet the bottom of the elevator trim tab
spar?!
I'm thinking the longeron yoke is my only shot, but that sure seems
funky, Since they're on the
"inside" of the trim tab behind the spar, they seem pretty tough to get at.
,
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/15/01 |
Dan,
You can back rivet them. It is possible to bend the skin back enought even
after the trailing edge is bent. I did it with no problem
John McDonnell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
That's typical...machine head on the thinner metal side, but I recommend the
*rear* of the spar instead. That's the side facing the rudder...where the
rudder hinges. It's those trailing edge skin-to-spar rivets that were
problematic with the shop head of the other rivets facing *rearward*.
Having the machine head facing rearward should alleviate this issue. Sure,
you go against some old wives' tale about shop heads on the thicker material
side, but oh well in this case...
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Adams" <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Re: VS Rivets
>
> Don't you want to put the machine head on the front side of the spar?
> John Adams
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
> To: Ellis H Mcgaughy
> Subject: RV7-List: Re: VS Rivets
>
>
> Here's a pic of the modified yoke:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/images/tools_ground_down_yoke.jpg
>
> I estimate I ground about 1/8" off the tip of the 3" regular yoke to
better
> clear those spar rivets and hinge brackets. You kind of have to work the
> angle at which you hold it, since there's a sweet spot with every rivet
> where the yoke gets closest to on-center. I managed to squeeze the
> skin-to-spar VS rivets with this modification.
>
> To those builders not yet started on the VS...save yourself the hassle and
> just put the machine head on the rear of the spar.
>
> I think I might manufacture a modified vise grip with flush sets welded
on,
> but minimized to the smallest possible size both height- and width-wise.
I
> wonder if people would buy this...
>
> )_( Dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)USA.dupont.com>
> To: "Dan Checkoway"
> Subject: Re: VS Rivets
>
>
> > Dan,
> >
> > Yea, I'd really like to see a picture. BTW, your web site is super. I
> > check it every day for updates. You are really moving along at light
> > speed.
> >
> > I have several yokes including a 4 inch no-hole. I can't even get to
the
> > rivets outside of the bracket area (but are above the spar doubler)
well.
> > I ordered a 1" no-hole yoke today and had planned to grind on it.
> >
> > I'll be out of town for until Monday (after tonight) so you may not hear
> > back from me before then. But, I'll be waiting for your pictures.
> >
> > I'm a little surprised we don't here more about this difficulty. Prior
to
> > you bringing it up (the rivet interference), I hadn't heard of anyone
> > complaining .... and I search and read alot!
> >
> > Thanks for sharing all your info with folks like me!
> >
> > Ellis
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | primer the rivets?? |
I'm new to building and just finished riveting the rear spar. One question I
would like to ask the group: is it necessary to use primer on the rivets??
Thank you--I'm sure I will have some more questions later on.
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: primer the rivets?? |
Russ,
I forgot to mention yesterday...there really is no way to prime the rivets
on the inside of the skeleton. Some you can, but most you can't. Like the
ones that hold the HS skins to the center rib and front spar. There's just
no good access. Of course you prime the outside of the rivets before you
paint the plane, but the inside doesn't get primed.
I think I may have told you something about rivets being cadmium plated?
Well, I was smoking crack...it's bolts that are generally cad plated or
stainless steel, not rivets.
Basically the "AD" in all the rivet numbers (i.e. AN470AD4-5, AN426AD3-3.5,
etc.) specify the rivet's alloy designation. "AD" happens to mean 2117T4
alloy with copper being the major alloying ingredient. From what I've read,
I understand that 2117T4 is more corrosion and crack-free than any other
copper-bearing aluminum alloys.
The book "Aircraft Sheet Metal" touches on all of this, but there's plenty
of free info out there...check this out:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/sups/chapter6.pdf
There's some *great* descriptive information about the different grades and
types of rivet materials. In terms of corrosion resistance, here's a quote:
"Most metals, and therefore aircraft rivet stock, are subject
to corrosion. Corrosion may be the result of local climatic
conditions or the fabrication process used. It is reduced to a
minimum by using metals which are highly resistant to corrosion
and possess the correct strength-to-weight ratio."
They talk about monel being highly corrosion resistant...I believe monel is
used on the heads many blind/pop rivets, instead of tempered aluminum.
Sometimes you'll see a monel head with a stainless steel shaft...ie "MS" in
the rivet specification, like "MSC-32". Aircraft Spruce's catalog even
touches on this letter coding...
Anyway, that probably doesn't very well answer your question, but it's food
for thought. I think the extruded parts and skins are *far* more likely to
corrode well before the rivets even think about corroding.
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV7-List: primer the rivets??
>
> I'm new to building and just finished riveting the rear spar. One
question I
> would like to ask the group: is it necessary to use primer on the
rivets??
> Thank you--I'm sure I will have some more questions later on.
>
> Russ Clifford
> Lake Forest, CA
> Empennage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | primer the rivets?? |
Russ,
Prime rivets where you have access, but obviously you cannot prime when
closing up the last skin. What I do to compensate is use an anti corrosion
cream called Durolac. It is a marine product used by my local aircraft
workshop. I use it on all external skin rivets, and on any situation where
there is dissimilar metal contact, such as on the rudder hinge brackets. For
rivets I get a toothpick and dab a bit on the inside of the hole, and insert
the rivet.
Durolac is a yellow/green cream in a tube that is icky sticky an slightly
stinky. We call it Cockycrap after the calling cards left by the large
Australian Sulphur Crested Cockatoo that is endemic to my home town. Just
thought I would share that with you.
David Francis, VH-ZEE, wing kit arrived this morning, Canberra, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com [mailto:RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com]
Subject: RV7-List: primer the rivets??
One question I
would like to ask the group: is it necessary to use primer on the rivets??
Thank you--I'm sure I will have some more questions later on.
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Lights |
You can go with the non-PMA'd stuff from Aeroflash and save a little money.
Jim Weir has also written articles on how to "roll your own" strobe systems
if you want to try that route.
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/magazine/index.html
You could then build your own strobe system for $50 in parts then purchase
$180 worth of red/green nav lights and be on your way for less than $200.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM Reserved
Mounting Control Surfaces
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott and Pam Trask" <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
Subject: RV6-List: Lights
> --> RV6-List message posted by: Scott and Pam Trask
>
> Hi
> Lights for night flying, has anyone come up with cheaper way then paying
> $700-$900 for nav light that have $70 worth of electronic in them?
> Scott Trask
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | NEW Matronics Email List Feature! Browse Current List |
Messages!
Dear Listers,
I have just finished building an all new Email List Web Browsing feature
for the Matronics Email Lists. The new system allows you to use your web
browser to view all of the current Email List messages. The system's
indexes display all of the current List messages sorted by Subject, Author,
Date, or Thread. Clicking on the URL links on these index pages will open
another "Viewing Window" where the messages will be displayed.
The format of the index pages and message viewing window are consistent
with the existing Matronics Archive Search Engine and should be familiar to
everyone. The messages available on this new List Browsing Feature span
the previous 7 days of email for the given List. Each day the oldest day's
messages are replaced with the current day's messages. The web pages are
updated every 30 minutes with any new messages that are posted to the List
during that time frame.
Please have a look at the new Utility and let me know what you think! For
ease of use, I've added a link to the new system on each of the List
trailers that are appended to each List email message.
I hope you will find the new system useful and also find it to be a handy
companion to the Archive Search Engine.
The new Email Browsing Utility can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
From here, you can select any of the available Email Lists.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Web Server Upgraded! Blazingly Fast Archive Searches!! |
Dear Listers,
As of this weekend, the Matronics Email List Web Server is now running on a
brand new hardware platform and the latest version of RedHat Linux! The
new hardware includes Dual 1.7GHz Xeon Processors, a 400MHz FSB
motherboard, 1GB of 800MHz RAM, a Dual-Channel 160 MB/Sec Ultra-160 SCSI
Controller, and an Ultra 160 36GB 15,000 RPM Seagate Cheetah hard
drive. The performance of the new system is, in a word, breathtaking!
In a variety of benchmark tests against the previous server, the new system
is at *least* six times faster! This means that your Archive Search Engine
queries will now come back in what seems like an instant! Single word
searches of the 113MB RV-List Archive now return in 2-3 seconds, and
searches of all other List Archives return in 1 second or
less!! Performance enhancements in the download and viewing of all other
web-based tools should also be noticeably improved as well.
Please enjoy the new system performance and don't forget, the Annual Email
List Fund Raiser is just around the corner!! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Cool Graph on Archive Search Times... |
Hi Listers,
Below is a link to an interesting graph of the current Archive Search
Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ) search times done on the 113Mb
RV-List Archive file. The graph shows searches back through about
Thursday. Based on the search times (shown in the Y axis), see if you
can pick out the point at which the new Web Server hardware was
installed... Impressive? :-)
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/RV-ListArchiveSearchTimes.jpg
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
EMail List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2001 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Forums sponsored here. Your contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
This year, I've made some substantial improvements to the Lists and the
supporting systems. These upgrades are focused on making your experience
here faster, more enjoyable, and most importantly, informative. Here is a
partial list of improvements that I've made on the systems this year:
o Upgraded Web Server
- Minimum 6X increase in performance *
- Tons more high performance disk space and memory!
- Increased availability and reliability - UPS Backup
- Improved support for > 130,000 Archive Searches each year!
* See http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/RV-SearchTime.jpg
o Email System Disk Subsystem Upgrade
- More storage and faster access times
- Faster redistribution of List Messages
- Processed over 45,000 List messages in 2001; 50,000 in 2000!
o All new List Browse Feature *
- Browse the last seven day's worth of List Messages
- Quick access to current threads
- Sort messages by Thread, Date, Subject, or Author
* See http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
o All new Photo Share Feature * &
- Simply email your photos and files to share
- Scanned for viruses
- Automatic Web Page Generation
- Includes descriptions and poster information
* See http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
& Officially to be announced soon
o Transition To High Performance Internet Service Provider
- Improved reliability
- Better access from most sites on the Internet
- Improved throughput
These are just some of the more visible improvements I've implemented this
year. I'm always working to improve the behind the scenes operation of the
Lists. I've built an elaborate system of message text and source address
filtering mechanisms to assure that you only receive text data in the
message, spam is nearly non-existent, computer viruses are never propagated
through the Lists, and that message post redistribution is smooth and
trouble free.
This year has seen a lot of improvements in the Email List experience. If
you enjoy the Forums here and make use of the many features, won't you take
a moment and make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
maintenance? Please note there is no advertising funding on the
Lists. You don't see annoying banner ads in the Email messages or on any
of the web pages. This just seems more friendly to me and makes the List
experience just that much more personal.
The operation of these Lists is supported *completely* through the
donations of List Members just like you!
Please take a moment to support your Lists by making a Secure Credit Card
Contribution at the following web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or you may send a personal check to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their Contribution and for
their continued support over the past year!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Email List Photo Share Available |
RV7-List(at)matronics.com, RV8-List(at)matronics.com, RV9-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Matronics Email List Photo Share <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is now available at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fasching@amigo.net/index.html
---------------------------------
EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Photo of Lyle Hefel's Control Stick and Throttle Quadrant |
I'm definitely planning on having my engine controls on the left side as
opposed to in the center (for my RV-7), just like N515L (Laird Owens' 6).
But I'd love to go with a throttle quadrant like this instead of having
verniers. Am I nuts? Would it be too crowded to side-mount a quadrant in
an RV-7?
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
> --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
>
> I think you may be able to get something similar from DJM.
>
> The advertise on www.vansaircraft.net
>
> I have an early version of a "Piper-like" quadrant from them. Don't know
if
> he has announced anything on general availability yet.
>
>
> James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-7 List: HS 614 flush to huh? |
Hi gang:
On DWG-3 it says trim the HS 614 flush with the edge
of 601 PP (the skin, I believe.). I haven't gotten to
the point of mating the skin to the skeleton (I'm real
close, though), but I'm wondering if the skin is also
flush the rib shown there and whether I can just trim
the 614 flush with that rib.
Bob Collins
St. Paul
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 List: HS 614 flush to huh? |
The idea here is to trim off a bit of HS-614 where it would otherwise
interfere with the skin and rib. The skin and rib share a flush edge there,
though...you don't have to trim the skin or rib at all, just HS-614.
Also...this is somewhat related, and it may be too late already, but take my
advice and don't rivet those HS-404 ribs onto the front spar until the skin
is on and riveted to everything else. Final drill the ribs, and drill the
skins to them, but don't rivet them onto the spar just yet...that will let
you take them out and get your arm up in there to buck the underside rivets
from skin to HS-607 (middle ribs). Of course you can use blind rivets
there, but I personally think it looks much better with AN426 flush solid
rivets, even on the underside. I went to the trouble, and I personally
think it's worth it so your plane doesn't look like a Zenith in some places
when it's done. 8
)
For what it's worth...
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: RV-7 List: HS 614 flush to huh?
>
>
> Hi gang:
> On DWG-3 it says trim the HS 614 flush with the edge
> of 601 PP (the skin, I believe.). I haven't gotten to
> the point of mating the skin to the skeleton (I'm real
> close, though), but I'm wondering if the skin is also
> flush the rib shown there and whether I can just trim
> the 614 flush with that rib.
>
> Bob Collins
> St. Paul
>
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Off to a Slow Start... |
Hi Listers,
First I want to take everyone that has taken a minute already to make a
Contribution to support the Email Lists in 2001! I also really appreciate
all the kind words I've been receiving regarding the Lists and how much
they mean to everyone. The testimonial means a lot to me and makes the
many hours working on the system worth it!! Later in the month, I'll share
a few of the kind words with the Lists.
I've added a nifty new Bar Graph Thermometer to the message trailer that
gives an up-to-the-minute percentage status of how many members have made a
Contribution during 2001! It was a fun piece of code to write and
hopefully will be a fun way to watch the Fund Raiser's Progress this year!
As I've said in the past, the Lists are supported *completely* through your
generous Contributions during the Fund Raiser and throughout the
year. This includes all of the system and connectivity upgrades we seen,
as well as makes the many hours I spend each month keeping the systems
running even more enjoyable ;-).
Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution right now to support your
Lists? Its fast and easy with the On-line, SSL secure Credit Card system,
or by direct US-Mailing a check. For complete information, please see the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your Generous Contribution!!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
PS - Don't forget to monitor the Fund Raiser Bar Graph below!
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV6-List(at)matronics.com, RV7-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kdbrv8r@charter.net/index.html
---------------------------------
EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Wilks" <patwilks(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 11/06/01 |
Greetings from Dyna-Cam:
Our company has the first two production engines now ready for installation
in an aircraft demonstration testbed. One is probably going to be installed
in a Cessna 182. The next one we would like to have installed in a
homebuilt sportplane like the RV-6 or RV-7.
We would like to locate someone in the Los Angeles/So. Calif. area that
would like to partner with us to install the Dyna-Cam engine into their RV-6
or RV-7, or similar.
Info. on this revolutionary engine can be found at http://www.dynacam.com.
Please contact me direct for further info.
Pat Wilks
310-791-4642
patwilks(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
I just love this engine! I woudl love to use it in the RV7a but it's
availablity is years to get it. I was looking at a subaru engine over this
though. Lycoming seems not the right engine for my aircraft in which they
are from such an old design. I ive rigth by dyna-cam
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Wilks" <patwilks(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 11/06/01
>
> Greetings from Dyna-Cam:
> Our company has the first two production engines now ready for
installation
> in an aircraft demonstration testbed. One is probably going to be
installed
> in a Cessna 182. The next one we would like to have installed in a
> homebuilt sportplane like the RV-6 or RV-7.
>
> We would like to locate someone in the Los Angeles/So. Calif. area that
> would like to partner with us to install the Dyna-Cam engine into their
RV-6
> or RV-7, or similar.
>
> Info. on this revolutionary engine can be found at http://www.dynacam.com.
> Please contact me direct for further info.
> Pat Wilks
> 310-791-4642
> patwilks(at)mindspring.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
For those looking at non-lycoming engines, but who desire to have an engine
specifically designed for the RV market, have a look at www.jabiru.net.au
and click on engines, and look for the Jabiru 6000, this is a 200hp flat 8
aero engine going into production in Jan 2002. The price is about US$13,000.
Jabiru tell me they intend to develop a firewall forward kit for RV's.
David Francis, VH-ZEE, wings being built.
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin [mailto:jmw116(at)socal.rr.com]
Subject: RV7-List: Dyna-cam
I just love this engine! I would love to use it in the RV7a but it's
availablity is years to get it. I was looking at a subaru engine over this
though. Lycoming seems not the right engine for my aircraft in which they
are from such an old design. I ive rigth by dyna-cam
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Wilks" <patwilks(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 11/06/01
>
> Greetings from Dyna-Cam:
> Our company has the first two production engines now ready for
installation
> in an aircraft demonstration testbed. One is probably going to be
installed
> in a Cessna 182. The next one we would like to have installed in a
> homebuilt sportplane like the RV-6 or RV-7.
>
> We would like to locate someone in the Los Angeles/So. Calif. area that
> would like to partner with us to install the Dyna-Cam engine into their
RV-6
> or RV-7, or similar.
>
> Info. on this revolutionary engine can be found at http://www.dynacam.com.
> Please contact me direct for further info.
> Pat Wilks
> 310-791-4642
> patwilks(at)mindspring.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Are Saying - Fund Raiser Continues... |
Dear Listers,
The 2001 List Fund Raiser is going well and I want to thank everyone that
has already so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists! Below
are some of the great comments and feedback members have been including
along with their Contributions.
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and
upgrade of your Lists? Its fast and easy using the SSL Secure Web Site or
by simply sending a personal check. Complete information can be found at
Contribution web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
A give a special Thank You to all of those that have already contributed so
far this year!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
Great information site.
- Edward S.
This is the first thing I look at every day.
- Ralph M.
The new List option is WONDERFUL!
- Kenyon B.
...new Search Software is absolutely fantastic!!
- Bruce K.
...essential to my enjoyment of RV building and flying.
- Douglas W.
Great List!
- Randall H.
...an invaluable service!
- Carlos S.
...incredible service to the industry!
- Alex M.
Building wouldn't be the same without the "Great List".
- Tom E.
...has helped the building process immensely.
- Hap S.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Have You Tried the New List Browse Feature?? |
Hi Listers,
I've been getting a LOT of very positive feedback on the new Email List
Browsing feature I added to the suite of List services a couple of weeks
ago. A number of List members have written to say that they love the new
List Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages
throughout the day without having to constantly check their email or wait
for the Digest issue to come out.
The List Browse Function allows you to use your web browser to view the
current 7 day's worth of List messages for the give List. The indexes are
updated every 30 minutes with any new messages that have been posted. You
can sort all of the message indexes by Thread, Subject, Author, or Date and
easily track and find current threads.
You can check out the New List Browse Feature by going to the following URL
and clicking on the List of your choice:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Please remember that November is List Fund Raiser month!! The continued
operation and upgrade of the Email Lists are _entirely_ supported by YOUR
Contributions and support. You'll never see annoying, flashing banner ads,
or other forms of commercialism on these Lists. Just people sharing
information, data, and stories about your favorite topic, plain (plane?)
and simple.
If you enjoy the Lists and all of the services here, won't you take moment
and make a quick Contribution? It fast and easy using the SSL Secure Web
site with your Visa or MasterCard. Or, you can also send a personal check
to the address listed below.
SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
USMail: Matt Dralle
c/o Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
Don't forget that the "List of Contributors" will be coming out in just a
few short weeks! Don't you want to make sure you're name is on it?
I would like to wish a special "Thank You" to everyone that has made a
Contribution so far this year!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | rv7 left elevator |
the bending tabs procedure just won't work
just cut off the tabs, build you a small rib from .032
alum
leave the flanges a little long on the rib to catch
the closest rivit on the trim spar
i did bend the tabs on the trim thought, but i didn't
want to screw up the elevator skin
cary rhodes
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv7 left elevator |
FYI, I bent the tabs on my elevator and trim tab with no problems
whatsoever. The tricks, at least in my opinion, are:
a) making sure the blocks of wood you use are *exactly* the right size and
fit...the inner block should snug up into the gap very tightly
b) making sure the whole shebang is clamped down very tightly and that the
inner and outer blocks (and/or bench edge or whatever) all line up with each
other
c) go slowly. don't try to bang the tabs down in one or two hits...take
your time.
d) REMOVE the protective film before bending...I forgot to do this...duh!
Got the bend down nice and tight and then had to fenagle the film out of
there by carefully pulling and peeling.
For banging/bending, I used a rubber mallet -- the kind with soft black
rubber on one side and hard yellow plastic-ish rubber on the other. I used
the hard side. I think the Orndorff video says to use a block of wood, but
I didn't buy into that technique. Careful banging with a hammer with a
good-sized head will work just as well if you're diligent.
Here's a picture of the setup I used:
http://www.rvproject.com/images/20011015_bending_tabs.jpg
It's basically the inner chunk of one of the V-blocks (be careful which one,
I forget whether it was from the rudder or elevator V-block, but one was too
small an angle) and a 2x4 clamped down onto the skin.
This whole process took about 5 minutes. Seems much cleaner to me than
having to make a rib. Just one man's opinion...
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "cary rhodes" <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: rv7 left elevator
>
> the bending tabs procedure just won't work
>
> just cut off the tabs, build you a small rib from .032
> alum
>
> leave the flanges a little long on the rib to catch
> the closest rivit on the trim spar
>
> i did bend the tabs on the trim thought, but i didn't
> want to screw up the elevator skin
>
> cary rhodes
>
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv7 left elevator |
> FYI, I bent the tabs on my elevator and trim tab with no problems
> whatsoever. The tricks, at least in my opinion, are:
>
> a) making sure the blocks of wood you use are *exactly* the right size and
> fit...the inner block should snug up into the gap very tightly
I want to expand on this...I had to take one of those inner V-block chunks
and chop off about 1/4" of the sharp tip. That blunted the tip so that it
snugged right up against the inner trailing edge.
Before I did that, the sharp tip would hit the trailing edge and leave all
sorts of gaps...no good!
Do what you have to do with the chunk of wood to get it to fit right. That
makes all the difference in the world.
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Free Copy of Van's New "THE RV STORY" Video! |
Hey Listers!
In support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Andy Gold of The Builder's
Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) is donating a FREE COPY of the
new edition of Van's "The RV Story" video (VHS) to any Email List Member
making a Contribution of $50 or more!
To take advantage of this wonderful Offer, please include the following
information along with your Contribution, either in the Message Box if you
Contribute on-line, or on a slip of paper if your Contribution is by check
via the USMail:
Van's RV Story Video Offer
$50 or Greater Contributor
[your name]
[your shipping address]
[your City, State and Zip Code]
If you've already made a Contribution in 2001 of $50 or more and would like
to receive the video, please drop me an email ( dralle(at)matronics.com ) and
include the information shown above with the words "Video Offer" in the
Subject line.
Please note that this new edition of "The RV Story" will first be available
in about 8 weeks.
I want to thank Andy Gold and the Builder's Book Store for this *very
generous* Contribution! If you haven't taken a moment to check out The
Builder's Book Store web site yet, you owe it to yourself to have a look (
http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ). Andy has a fabulous selection of
interesting, informative, and exceptionally useful books and videos on his
site. Please have a look!
Again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution so far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Your Contributions
make all of the Lists and Services found here possible - period.
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Updated Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV6-List(at)matronics.com, RV7-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
An Update to the Email List Photo Share below is available:
Subject: Fuselage Roller
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kdbrv8r@charter.net/index.html
---------------------------------
EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Argh -- Left Elevator |
I suggest cutting them off cleanly and fabricating a rib to rivet in there.
Larry in Indiana
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream(at)qwest.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Argh -- Left Elevator
>
> Chalk me up as the latest screwup in the left elevator
> category. ...SNIP...Any thoughts on bending vs
> fabricating little ribs are appreciated.
>
> Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Argh -- Left Elevator |
>
>I suggest cutting them off cleanly and fabricating a rib to rivet in there.
>
>Larry in Indiana
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream(at)qwest.net>
>
> > Chalk me up as the latest screwup in the left elevator
> > category. ...SNIP...Any thoughts on bending vs
> > fabricating little ribs are appreciated.
Add me to the list of folks who tried the tab bending but didn't like the
result. Luckily(?) I had a spare rib from messing up the HS skeleton, so
was able to use the web and one flange from that rib, and just traced the
outline of the trailing edge of the trim tab (which did fold and rivet
nicely) onto the web of the HS rib. Add a 5/8 inch tab for a new flange,
cut carefully with aviation snips, fold with hand seamer and voila, new
little rib. Looks like it was meant to be there.
It was, however, the end of hopes for an OSH Grand Champion...
Dan Masys
RV7A wings N868DM (reserved) San Diego, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
does anybody have a dimension to set the bearings on
the elevator for fit up
I started with 13/16 inch from the stab spar to the
center of the bearing,but i have no reason for that
number
Also the gap between the elevator counter weight arm
and the horizontal stab.
Recon what that's supposed to be
Cary Rhodes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rv 7 elevator |
If memory serves the 13/16" number comes from the plans.
I don't know if there is a dimension for the counterweight arm. I tried to
get mine beween 1/8" and 1/4". I've seen some really tight ones and some
really loose ones and they all flew. ???? I wouldn't want it too tight,
you don't want that to bind on you.
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings
Houston, Texas
http://www.myrv7.com
Takeoffs are optional, Landings are mandatory.
----- Original Message -----
From: "cary rhodes" <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: rv 7 elevator
>
> does anybody have a dimension to set the bearings on
> the elevator for fit up
>
> I started with 13/16 inch from the stab spar to the
> center of the bearing,but i have no reason for that
> number
>
>
> Also the gap between the elevator counter weight arm
> and the horizontal stab.
>
> Recon what that's supposed to be
>
> Cary Rhodes
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv 7 elevator |
My understanding and opinion is this...
Get the elevators as close as possible to the HS so that...
a) they still have the full spec'ed range of motion without any rubbing
anywhere
b) there's less gap-induced drag
c) the counterweights' moment arm is increased, thus you can shave off more
lead (try balancing an elevator and then tighten the gap by one complete
rotation of the bearing...you'll see it's way off balance...makes a big
difference)
d) IMPORTANT: make sure the control horns are aligned with each other!
Sacrifice a little symmetry gap-wise in order to get those horns aligned.
I think the 13/16" figure is a reference number. Assuming you get (a)-(d)
above satisfied, just crank those suckers as tight to the HS as they'll go
without violating any of those conditions.
Some people might argue that having more lead in the tail reduces the
aerodynamic "negative lift" workload of the HS/elevators and thus reduces
drag, but that gets into an argument over which is better...lighter or less
draggy. Don't even want to go there. 8
)
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: rv 7 elevator
>
> If memory serves the 13/16" number comes from the plans.
>
> I don't know if there is a dimension for the counterweight arm. I tried
to
> get mine beween 1/8" and 1/4". I've seen some really tight ones and some
> really loose ones and they all flew. ???? I wouldn't want it too tight,
> you don't want that to bind on you.
>
> Phil Birkelbach
> RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings
> Houston, Texas
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> Takeoffs are optional, Landings are mandatory.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cary rhodes" <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV7-List: rv 7 elevator
>
>
> >
> > does anybody have a dimension to set the bearings on
> > the elevator for fit up
> >
> > I started with 13/16 inch from the stab spar to the
> > center of the bearing,but i have no reason for that
> > number
> >
> >
> > Also the gap between the elevator counter weight arm
> > and the horizontal stab.
> >
> > Recon what that's supposed to be
> >
> > Cary Rhodes
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
that's great, thanks
i have about 1/8 inch on the right and a fat 3/16 on
the left
it looked a little wide, but there doesn't seem to be
much adjustment
any comments on filling and or finishing the exposed
ribs and skin overhang on the ends of the stabs
cary rhodes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
I hate to see a day go by without any contributions to
the rv 7 list
can i decipher what sequential number kit i have
bought from the customer number issued to me
my number is 70398
is that the serial of my plane?
can i assume that i have bought the 398th kit?
i wouldn't think they have that many kits out there.
i drilled the elevator horn the other nite
it sure is close to the steel tube
a bolt will fit ok but the flat on the bolt head is
hard against the tube
i wish i hadn't drilled it yet -- i could have backed
off on the end bearing dimensions
set them @ 13/16 inches -- now i know that's not
enough
needs to be about 1/8 inch more
cary rhodes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
Does anyone have a website for the RV7/a? Consitering I have a rv6a tail how
hard is it to change that into the RV7 rather then the RV7a. I dont know if
I could do that consitering the engien setups I plan to use. Aiming for a
Subaru EG66 (260hp@5200rpm) and slapping a turbo on it but limiting the
turbo to 30" and limiting the engine to 200HP@ 4200rpm which is reasonable
for all day flight. OR a wankel (rotary) engine in there but thats lower on
the list. I just want 200HP and low fuel consumption from AUTO gas. It's
$1.15 here and less VS 100LL which is $2.75 here!
Im taking lessons in a T-18 Thorp and it has the 150HP lycoming whihc we
run auto gas in and get by fine. I can't say this is the easyest plane to be
learning in, working on landings still. Got 7+hours logged. Going flying
saturday, just pattern work.
Justin,
RV7a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Berryhill" <berryhill1911(at)hotmail.com> |
Go to Van's website and click on the RV7/7A page.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/
Scroll down the RV7/7A page and you'll see a link that says
"Can I use my RV-6/6A empennage kit on an RV-7/7A?"
That will tell you what you can and can't use from your -6 kit. Also, go to
the "WWW Links" page and you'll see a bunch of websites organized by model.
There are a few listed for the RV7.
Dave Berryhill
Matronics Contribution Made
>Does anyone have a website for the RV7/a? Consitering I have a rv6a tail
>how
>hard is it to change that into the RV7 rather then the RV7a.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Lanier" <flanier(at)microsoft.com> |
Hi Justin,
To convert your RV-6 tail kit to the RV-7 you will need to purchase the
6-7 conversion kit from Van's. It consist of thicker skins for the
elevators and rudder. It also has heavier counterbalance weights for
the elevator to compensate for the thicker skins. The price is $105
(give or take a couple of dollars). Other than these changes the tail
kits are identical, so you shouldn't have any problems. Also, there is
no difference in tail kits for tail dragger or "nose" draggers ... That
goes for the wing as well. You don't have to commit to a landing gear
configuration until the fuselage.
Happy Building!
Frank Lanier -- Maple Valley, WA
5702T Reserved
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin [mailto:jmw116(at)socal.rr.com]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Website
Does anyone have a website for the RV7/a? Consitering I have a rv6a tail
how hard is it to change that into the RV7 rather then the RV7a. I dont
know if I could do that consitering the engien setups I plan to use.
Aiming for a Subaru EG66 (260hp@5200rpm) and slapping a turbo on it but
limiting the turbo to 30" and limiting the engine to 200HP@ 4200rpm
which is reasonable for all day flight. OR a wankel (rotary) engine in
there but thats lower on the list. I just want 200HP and low fuel
consumption from AUTO gas. It's $1.15 here and less VS 100LL which is
$2.75 here!
Im taking lessons in a T-18 Thorp and it has the 150HP lycoming
whihc we run auto gas in and get by fine. I can't say this is the
easyest plane to be learning in, working on landings still. Got 7+hours
logged. Going flying saturday, just pattern work.
Justin,
RV7a
==
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: cary rhodes [mailto:rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: RV7-List: serial number
I hate to see a day go by without any contributions to
the rv 7 list
can i decipher what sequential number kit i have
bought from the customer number issued to me
my number is 70398
is that the serial of my plane?
can i assume that i have bought the 398th kit?
i wouldn't think they have that many kits out there.
i drilled the elevator horn the other nite
it sure is close to the steel tube
a bolt will fit ok but the flat on the bolt head is
hard against the tube
i wish i hadn't drilled it yet -- i could have backed
off on the end bearing dimensions
set them @ 13/16 inches -- now i know that's not
enough
needs to be about 1/8 inch more
cary rhodes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: serial number |
cary rhodes wrote:
> can i decipher what sequential number kit i have
> bought from the customer number issued to me
>
> my number is 70398
> is that the serial of my plane?
> can i assume that i have bought the 398th kit?
Well, my number is 70392, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they'd sold
that many... It's been a very popular kit, judging from the backlog of orders
for the quickbuild...
-RB4
rv7 "at" b4.ca
http://www.b4.ca/rv7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: serial number |
My emp kit was # 70048 and QB kit was 70055, so I don't know what my serial
# is either but they have sold a bunch.
Neil McLeod
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: serial number
>
> cary rhodes wrote:
>
> > can i decipher what sequential number kit i have
> > bought from the customer number issued to me
> >
> > my number is 70398
> > is that the serial of my plane?
> > can i assume that i have bought the 398th kit?
>
> Well, my number is 70392, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they'd
sold
> that many... It's been a very popular kit, judging from the backlog of
orders
> for the quickbuild...
>
> -RB4
>
> rv7 "at" b4.ca
> http://www.b4.ca/rv7
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What They're Saying... |
Hi Listers,
The 2001 List Fund Raiser is currently underway and lot's of people have
been making their Contribution and saying a lot of very nice things about
the Lists and what they're daily-dose of Forum means to them! I've
included a few more of the Lister comments below.
Won't you take a moment to support your Lists this month? Its fast and
easy by making a Secure Credit Card Contribution at the following web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
For Complete information on the upgrades and improvements the Lists and
servers have undergone this year, have a look at this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=113171908?KEYS=asdfasdf?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=4?SERIAL=1942094803?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
Here's few more of the comments I've been receiving about what the Lists
mean to its members:
======================
Not only a great way to help each other out, it's been
a wonderful way to meet new friends. - Fred H.
The List is invaluable to me...
- Russell W.
I absolutely love your Lists...
- Scott C.
...you are tying all the builders together.
- David A.
The Lists continue to be an invaluable source of
information. - Jeff O.
I look forward to reading my Email every day...
- Harvey S.
They are invaluable resources to builders of all
skill levels. - Kevin H.
...another year of excellent service.
- Terry W.
Way cool setup.
- Chuck R.
...source of information, inspiration, support,
and camaraderie. - Carlos S.
I'd be lost without them...
- Jeff O.
======================
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com> |
| Subject: | re:serial number |
I just bought my empennage last week and the number was in the mid 500's so
looks like its selling well.
I do have a question though....
I am still gathering tools and it was mentioned at my metal building class
that the only acceptable drill is an air drill 2600 to 3500 rpm with a
Jacobs machinist chuck.
I was planning to use my rechargeable Dewalt ( 1100 rpm ) with a quick
change chuck. Any thoughts from those of you that are building ???
Thanks
Wayne Pedersen
empennage inventoried in Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re:serial number |
an air drill motor would be best...I have tried the re-charge motors with the
kwick change chuck...they all tend to slip when used hard...mayby not all of them
do, but the ones I have bought sure do...happy building...
Wayne Pedersen wrote:
>
> I just bought my empennage last week and the number was in the mid 500's so
> looks like its selling well.
>
> I do have a question though....
>
> I am still gathering tools and it was mentioned at my metal building class
> that the only acceptable drill is an air drill 2600 to 3500 rpm with a
> Jacobs machinist chuck.
> I was planning to use my rechargeable Dewalt ( 1100 rpm ) with a quick
> change chuck. Any thoughts from those of you that are building ???
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne Pedersen
> empennage inventoried in Southern Alberta
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: re:serial number |
I've only drilled the first rows of holes, connecting the HS skins to the HS
spars, so my experience may not be representative, but I found my Dewalt cordless
with the hand-tightened chuck to be more than adequate at it's top speed of
1400rpm.
I've talked to others who are building, the consensus seems to be that the faster
rotational speed of the air drill will make a cleaner hole, but I suspect that
a
cordless drill at 1400rpm used cautiously (ie. don't "lean" on the drill to force
it to drill too quickly) will work just fine. I may pick up an air drill, but
i'm not in a hurry to do it.
Oh, and if your hand-tightened chuck slips, either you didn't tighten it down
enough before drilling, or you're trying to take too big a "bite" when you're
drilling. Try easing off on the pressure before giving up on it.
-RB4
Wayne Pedersen wrote:
>
> I just bought my empennage last week and the number was in the mid 500's so
> looks like its selling well.
>
> I do have a question though....
>
> I am still gathering tools and it was mentioned at my metal building class
> that the only acceptable drill is an air drill 2600 to 3500 rpm with a
> Jacobs machinist chuck.
> I was planning to use my rechargeable Dewalt ( 1100 rpm ) with a quick
> change chuck. Any thoughts from those of you that are building ???
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne Pedersen
> empennage inventoried in Southern Alberta
>
--
---------
Rob Prior
rv7 "at" b4.ca
-----------------------------
Stop dreaming... Start flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
| Subject: | re:serial number |
Check out ebay for some good prices on used tools.
John Adams
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Pedersen [mailto:wayne(at)pedersentransport.com]
Subject: RV7-List: re:serial number
I just bought my empennage last week and the number was in the mid 500's so
looks like its selling well.
I do have a question though....
I am still gathering tools and it was mentioned at my metal building class
that the only acceptable drill is an air drill 2600 to 3500 rpm with a
Jacobs machinist chuck.
I was planning to use my rechargeable Dewalt ( 1100 rpm ) with a quick
change chuck. Any thoughts from those of you that are building ???
Thanks
Wayne Pedersen
empennage inventoried in Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Hauck" <ross(at)rossreels.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV7-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 11/15/01 |
I called Van's about this, and they said to screw out the rod bearings
enough so that the hex on the nut would clear the tube. They consider
the 13/16" to be a starting dimension only. Also, I ran into a
clearance problem between the counterbalance horns and the HS that was
cured by this adjustment. Further, your number is your s/n. I don't
know how it works with the qb kits.
Ross Hauck/wings
770RH (reserved)
#70251
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: serial number
I hate to see a day go by without any contributions to
the rv 7 list
can i decipher what sequential number kit i have
bought from the customer number issued to me
my number is 70398
is that the serial of my plane?
can i assume that i have bought the 398th kit?
i wouldn't think they have that many kits out there.
i drilled the elevator horn the other nite
it sure is close to the steel tube
a bolt will fit ok but the flat on the bolt head is
hard against the tube
i wish i hadn't drilled it yet -- i could have backed
off on the end bearing dimensions
set them @ 13/16 inches -- now i know that's not
enough
needs to be about 1/8 inch more
cary rhodes
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re:serial number |
| From: | "Frank Lanier" <flanier(at)microsoft.com> |
I've used both cordless and air drills and they both work, but in my
humble opinion the air drill is far better than the cordless. The
cordless will tend to grab in thicker metals (at least mine does)
whereas the air drill will not. I'll still use the cordless for some
tasks, but I find I gravitate towards the air drill for most things.
If you get one, make sure it has a teaser trigger. I made the mistake
of getting one at Lowes for around $30 that didn't have one. You just
don't have the control you need with an on/off trigger. The Taylor air
drill is around $70-$80 and is well worth the price.
One the subject of tools, one that I have found invaluable is the
pneumatic squeezer. They are a bit spendy, but the quality of the
rivets is incredible compare to what I can do with my Tatco hand
squeezer. Just my opinion, though.
Frank Lanier -- Maple Valley, WA
5702T, reserved
Wing will be in at Christmas!
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Pedersen [mailto:wayne(at)pedersentransport.com]
Subject: RV7-List: re:serial number
-->
I just bought my empennage last week and the number was in the mid 500's
so looks like its selling well.
I do have a question though....
I am still gathering tools and it was mentioned at my metal building
class that the only acceptable drill is an air drill 2600 to 3500 rpm
with a Jacobs machinist chuck. I was planning to use my rechargeable
Dewalt ( 1100 rpm ) with a quick change chuck. Any thoughts from those
of you that are building ???
Thanks
Wayne Pedersen
empennage inventoried in Southern Alberta
==
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st
I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support
the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a
minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems at
least, if not a whole lot more, valuable as a building/flying/recreating
tool as a typical your magazine subscription. We won't even talk about a
newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to
support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or M/C on the SSL Secure
Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
!! Don't forget !!
Andy Gold of the Builder's Book Store ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) has
generously donated a FREE copy of Van's new "The RV Story" video to anyone
making a Contribution of $50 or more to support the Lists. For complete
information on the _awesome_ offer, please see this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=113629625?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=23392130806?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
To make sure you get your video, be sure to follow the instructions at the
URL above carefully!
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support
that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a
little comment about how the Lists have helped you! I love to feel the
love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re:serial number |
For me, I'd have both drills. The easy to change rechargeable is good for
the drill bit you don't use constantly. It saves you from having to change
setups more frequently in the air drill. I have both types and use the air
drill (Sioux drill I got at Avery Tools) for the heavy and repetitive work
and especially the counter sinking work. I think you will be extending your
work time and minimizing your flying time by not getting a quality air drill
for the big jobs ahead of you.
Larry in Indiana, RV7 #47 - working on fuel tanks and wings and finding the
kit to be just outstanding at this stage of the project.
N747LH Reserved
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Pedersen [mailto:wayne(at)pedersentransport.com]
> To: Rv7 List (E-mail)
> Subject: RV7-List: re:serial number
>
>
> -->
>
> I just bought my empennage last week and the number was in the mid 500's
> so looks like its selling well.
>
> I do have a question though....
>
> I am still gathering tools and it was mentioned at my metal building
> class that the only acceptable drill is an air drill 2600 to 3500 rpm
> with a Jacobs machinist chuck. I was planning to use my rechargeable
> Dewalt ( 1100 rpm ) with a quick change chuck. Any thoughts from those
> of you that are building ???
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne Pedersen
> empennage inventoried in Southern Alberta
>
>
> ==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling out rivets |
I've looked in Avery and Cleaveland catalogs at the
tool that can be used to drill out rivets. Pretty
pricey, but I don't hear many people talking about
them. I'm curious if anyone uses it with any
regularity - and believe, me, if I bought one, I'd
probably be using it with a fair degree of regularity.
Bob
St. Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fox Todd <foxt(at)NTSB.gov> |
subject: RE: RV7-List: Drilling out rivets
I have one... and yes, I do use it! I've had excellent success with mine.
However, if you talk to an experienced builder they would tell you that you
could spend your money on more important things.
Todd.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
National Transportation Safety Board
Andrew Todd Fox
Air Safety Investigator
(630) 587-8113
foxt(at)NTSB.gov
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
-----Original Message-----
| From: | Bob Collins [mailto:bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com] |
Subject: RV7-List: Drilling out rivets
I've looked in Avery and Cleaveland catalogs at the
tool that can be used to drill out rivets. Pretty
pricey, but I don't hear many people talking about
them. I'm curious if anyone uses it with any
regularity - and believe, me, if I bought one, I'd
probably be using it with a fair degree of regularity.
Bob
St. Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Drilling out rivets |
| From: | "Frank Lanier" <flanier(at)microsoft.com> |
I have the one from Cleaveland Tools. It's actually a pretty nice tool
... Really helps in centering the hole on the head of the AN470AD
rivets.
Frank -- Maple Valley, WA
5702T, Reserved
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Collins [mailto:bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: RV7-List: Drilling out rivets
I've looked in Avery and Cleaveland catalogs at the
tool that can be used to drill out rivets. Pretty
pricey, but I don't hear many people talking about
them. I'm curious if anyone uses it with any
regularity - and believe, me, if I bought one, I'd
probably be using it with a fair degree of regularity.
Bob
St. Paul
==
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu> |
| Subject: | Drilling out rivets |
>
>I have one... and yes, I do use it! I've had excellent success with mine.
>However, if you talk to an experienced builder they would tell you that you
>could spend your money on more important things.
>
>Todd.
>
>
> I've looked in Avery and Cleaveland catalogs at the
>tool that can be used to drill out rivets. Pretty
>pricey, but I don't hear many people talking about
>them. I'm curious if anyone uses it with any
>regularity - and believe, me, if I bought one, I'd
>probably be using it with a fair degree of regularity.
>
>Bob
>St. Paul
I got one a long time ago to drill out about 120 rivets holding the
windshield of a Cessna 182 in place. But I don't use it now. The Avery
air drill, if rotated by hand in the center of a rivet, works just as well
and is equally easy to control. Trick is to drill through the manufactured
head straight down the center of the rivet, then put a punch into the hole
and snap off the manufactured head. (Flush head AN3's just drill straight
ahead and it falls apart).
If I didn't own one I wouldn't buy it now...
Dan Masys
RV7A -wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Powers" <gpowers14(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
Bob, I think you and I might be kindred spirits. I bought one of the tools
to drill out rivets and have used it several times. A good investment for
me.
Gary Powers
Lubbock
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Drilling out rivets
>
> I've looked in Avery and Cleaveland catalogs at the
> tool that can be used to drill out rivets. Pretty
> pricey, but I don't hear many people talking about
> them. I'm curious if anyone uses it with any
> regularity - and believe, me, if I bought one, I'd
> probably be using it with a fair degree of regularity.
>
> Bob
> St. Paul
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
One trick that I use is this:
Take your countersink bit (the one that you use to debur and/or c-sink
holes), put the point in the tiny pock mark on the AN470 rivet head. Rotate
that sucker just like you're deburring or c-sinking. It makes a great
little pilot pit...then your drill bit stays right there, right on center.
Works for me every time.
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu>
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Drilling out rivets
>
> >
> >I have one... and yes, I do use it! I've had excellent success with
mine.
> >However, if you talk to an experienced builder they would tell you that
you
> >could spend your money on more important things.
> >
> >Todd.
> >
> >
> > I've looked in Avery and Cleaveland catalogs at the
> >tool that can be used to drill out rivets. Pretty
> >pricey, but I don't hear many people talking about
> >them. I'm curious if anyone uses it with any
> >regularity - and believe, me, if I bought one, I'd
> >probably be using it with a fair degree of regularity.
> >
> >Bob
> >St. Paul
>
> I got one a long time ago to drill out about 120 rivets holding the
> windshield of a Cessna 182 in place. But I don't use it now. The Avery
> air drill, if rotated by hand in the center of a rivet, works just as well
> and is equally easy to control. Trick is to drill through the
manufactured
> head straight down the center of the rivet, then put a punch into the hole
> and snap off the manufactured head. (Flush head AN3's just drill straight
> ahead and it falls apart).
>
> If I didn't own one I wouldn't buy it now...
>
>
> Dan Masys
> RV7A -wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Drilling out rivets |
Personally I have never had to drill out a rivet but I have heard that an
automatic center punch works well to deepen the ding in the center of the
head of the rivet. The drill will then stay centered for clean removal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: drilling out rivets |
Just a bit of tounge in cheek humor Dan. Do try the center punch if you are
still building. Quick and simple.
Bill RV6
wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
after years of drilling out rivets by hand..I decided to try oneof the fanvy
high-priced tools that is supposed to do the job...it works....tho after about
3x things get worn, and it starts to mess up...better just get good at
freehand,with a sharp bit....jolly in aurora.or.
Bob Collins wrote:
>
> I've looked in Avery and Cleaveland catalogs at the
> tool that can be used to drill out rivets. Pretty
> pricey, but I don't hear many people talking about
> them. I'm curious if anyone uses it with any
> regularity - and believe, me, if I bought one, I'd
> probably be using it with a fair degree of regularity.
>
> Bob
> St. Paul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Michael Brown... |
Hi Listers,
In support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Michael Brown of Brown
Aviation Tool Supply Co. ( http://www.browntool.com ) has generously
offered to provide Gift Certificates to all Listers making Contributions of
$30 or more this year!
Making your Contribution to support these Email Lists and to qualify for
the Brown Tool Gift Certificate is fast and easy by using the SSL Secure
Credit Card Contribution Web Site at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
According to Michael, "The Gift Certificates have absolutely no strings
attached and are as good as cash for anything from the Brown Tool Web Site
or Catalog."
The amount of your Gift Certificate is based on the size of your List
Contribution and is according to the following:
$100 or greater Contribution receives a $25 Gift Certificate!
or
$30-$99 Contribution receives a $10 Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
To receive your Brown Tool Gift Certificate, send an email message to:
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com
and include the following information:
1) Subject Line: Tool Offer
2) Which Gift Certificate you qualify for ($10 or $25)
3) [Your Name]
4) [Your Mailing Address]
5) [Your City, State Zip]
** Please only use the email address shown above (
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com ) to request your Gift Certificate!
*** Anyone making a List Contribution of $30 or more in 2001 qualifies for
the Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
You should receive your Gift Certificate from Brown Tool in about 2-4 weeks.
I want to thank Michael Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for this
wonderful offer in support of the Email Lists! If you haven't yet had a
look at the Brown Tool Web Site ( http://www.browntool.com ), then you own
it to yourself to take a peek! He has some great deals and good quality tools.
And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has already made a
Contribution in this year's Fund Raiser! Its YOUR support that keeps these
Lists running and NOT ADVERTISING and FLASHING BANNER ADS...
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Can You Say...? |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting a ton great comments on what the Lists mean to its
members and I've included a few of them below. I'm sure _most_ of you can
echo one or more of these sentiments to the tune of a nice List
Contribution... :-)
Just one more week until I post the 2001 List of Contributors! Won't you
support the continued operation of these Lists by making a Contribution
today and assure your place on the upcoming Contributor List? I'm sure
your friends will be checking for your name on the LOC... ;-)
SSL Secure Web Visa and MasterCard Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Personal Check via the US Mail:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
I want to thank everyone that has already made a Contribution this
year! YOU make these Lists possible!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
===========================================================================
Can't live without my List everyday!
- John B.
Information you can't get anywhere else.
- George D.
...one of the finest List sites on the Internet.
- Dennis S.
This List has saved my bacon more than once!
- Larry H.
Really invaluable service for a novice builder.
- John B.
...got some useful help from the List.
- Rocky S.
A valuable resource.
- Dennis N.
This List is a Super resource...
- Dwight F.
...couldn't have gotten this far without the
resources on the List.
- Jerry C.
Great service to us builders...
- Ronald M.
...someday we'll all meet in RV Heaven. Hey,
how come there isn't an "RV-Heaven" List?
- Louis W.
The info I've gleaned from the List has saved
me several thousand dollars...
- Kevin H.
...the only International, Interesting, Up-to-date,
List with the best search engine ever!
- Hans L.
...check it ever day so I don't miss anything.
- Jim B.
Great List!
- Douglas G.
This List has saved me a few times already...
- Thomas R.
...part of my morning wake up reading.
- Dwight F.
...helped my make my plane better, safer, better
looking, and built it quicker.
- Kevin H.
Have bought many items from the info the List gives.
- Jim B.
You meet the nicest people here.
- George D.
Informative, Amusing, Entertaining...
- John B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Don't Miss The Video... |
Hey Listers!
Just a reminder that in support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Andy
Gold of The Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) is
donating a FREE COPY of the new edition of Van's "The RV Story" video (VHS)
to any List Member making a Contribution of $50 or more!
To take advantage of this wonderful Offer, please include the following
information along with your Contribution, either in the Message Box if you
Contribute on-line, or on a slip of paper if your Contribution is by check
via the USMail:
Van's RV Story Video Offer
$50 or Greater Contributor
[your name]
[your shipping address]
[your City, State and Zip Code]
If you've already made a Contribution of $50 or more during the 2001 Fund
Raiser and would still like to receive the video, please drop me an email (
dralle(at)matronics.com ) and include the information shown above with the
following Subject Line:
Subject: Video Offer
Please note that this new edition of "The RV Story" will first be available
in about 8 weeks.
I want to thank Andy Gold and the Builder's Book Store for this *very
generous* Contribution! If you haven't taken a moment to check out The
Builder's Book Store web site yet, you owe it to yourself to have a look (
http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ). Andy has a fabulous selection of
interesting, informative, and exceptionally useful books and videos on his
site. Please have a look!
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
so far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Just a few more days until I send
out the List of Contributors for 2001. Make your Contribution today to
make sure your name is on the LOC!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Brown Tool Gift Certificate Reminder... |
Hi Listers,
Just a reminder that in support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Michael
Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. ( http://www.browntool.com ) has
generously offered to provide Gift Certificates to all Listers making
Contributions of $30 or more this year!
Making your Contribution to support these Email Lists and to qualify for
the Brown Tool Gift Certificate is fast and easy by using the SSL Secure
Credit Card Contribution Web Site at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
According to Michael, "The Gift Certificates have absolutely no strings
attached and are as good as cash for anything from the Brown Tool Web Site
or Catalog."
The amount of your Gift Certificate is based on the size of your List
Contribution and is according to the following:
$100 or greater Contribution receives a $25 Gift Certificate!
or
$30-$99 Contribution receives a $10 Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
To receive your Brown Tool Gift Certificate, send an email message to:
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com
and include the following information:
1) Subject Line: Tool Offer
2) Which Gift Certificate you qualify for ($10 or $25)
3) [Your Name]
4) [Your Mailing Address]
5) [Your City, State Zip]
** Please only use the email address shown above (
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com ) to request your Gift Certificate!
*** Anyone making a List Contribution of $30 or more in 2001 qualifies for
the Gift Certificate! But, you have to follow the instructions above to
receive it!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
You should receive your Gift Certificate from Brown Tool in about 2-4 weeks.
I want to thank Michael Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for this
wonderful offer in support of the Email Lists! If you haven't yet had a
look at the Brown Tool Web Site ( http://www.browntool.com ), then you own
it to yourself to take a peek! He has some great deals and good quality tools.
I would like to thank everyone that has already made a Contribution in this
year's Fund Raiser!
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributors Down By 25%... |
Dear Listers,
First I want to thank everyone that has already so generously made a
Contribution toward this year 2001 List Fund Raiser. It is your support
that makes these Lists possible.
Since there are only a couple more days until the official end of this
year's drive, I want to share some statistics regarding this and previous
Fund Raiser percentages. In years past, the percentage of members making a
Contribution to support the Lists has typically been right around 23% of
the total List population. This year, however, you'll note from the
Contribution Meter that we're only at a little over 16% for some
reason. This is down by roughly 7%, and translates into about a *30%
decrease* in participation this year!
I'm hoping that everyone is just waiting until the very last minute to make
their Contribution this year, and that the needle on the Contribution Meter
will still creep up to the normal 23% in the next few days! Saturday or
Sunday I will be posting the 2001 List of Contributors, so you'll want to
heat up that Contribution Web Site right away to make sure your name is on
the 2001 LOC!!
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Listers,
A couple List Members have asked if the Lists are "in trouble financially"
and wanted to know if this is why I was having a Fund Raiser. It got to
thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also
take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide
a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a great amount of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
new List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of
use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth
of messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew who where
building RVs. It has grown into nearly 40 different aviation-related Email
Lists and an associated web site that receives over 500,000 hits each
month!! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value
in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing
and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <jjessen(at)cmbinfo.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Nice post, Matt. Very well put. I mailed in the check yesterday and
hopefully can send more, soon. John
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle [mailto:dralle(at)matronics.com]
Subject: RV7-List: [PLEASE READ] - Why Have A Fund Raiser Each Year?
Listers,
A couple List Members have asked if the Lists are "in trouble financially"
and wanted to know if this is why I was having a Fund Raiser. It got to
thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also
take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide
a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a great amount of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
new List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of
use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth
of messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew who where
building RVs. It has grown into nearly 40 different aviation-related Email
Lists and an associated web site that receives over 500,000 hits each
month!! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value
in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing
and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Free Stuff Reminder... |
Dear Listers,
Don't forget that you can receive a free copy of Van's new Video, "The RV
Story" with a $50 or greater contribution this year, or a $10 Gift
Certificate from Brown Tool for a $30 or greater contribution or a $25 Gift
Certificate for a $100 contribution. Below are two URLs for complete
information on the two Offers. Please follow the respective instructions
*carefully*.
Van's Video Offer Information:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=5781141?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=09092616692?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
Brown Aviation Tool Gift Certificate Information:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=5838463?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=09080216166?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore and Michael Brown of
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for their generous offers in support the
Lists this year!! Thank you, guys!
I'd like to thank everyone that has already made a generous Contribution in
support of the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Listers,
Below are some of the comments I've received just this week alone from
members along with their Contributions to support the Lists! What can I
say? Wow. I really appreciate the kind words and extremely positive
feedback and I would encourage you to read over a few of comments below. I
think they really say a mouthful...
The last couple of days have seen a huge increase in support!! Thank you
to all that have Contributed and to those that have rallied support for the
Lists! Since the response has been so wonderful recently, I plan to delay
the posting of the 2001 List of Contributors a few days to assure that
everyone will be included!
Won't you make your Contribution today to support the Lists?
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
------------------------------------------
Thank you to everyone for the kind words and support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
======== Some Great Comments on What The Lists Mean to its Members ==========
...great source of information, education,
relaxation, frustration, and socialization.
- John H.
Can't imagine what it would be like building
with out the Lists...
- Steven E.
Look forward to the list every day.
- Parker T.
I really enjoy reading the banter...
- Wesley H.
...enjoy the patter on construction tips and
possible problem areas.
- Richard N.
Couldn't have built my RV-4 without the List
and archives!!
- Warren M.
I have found the list to be a great help,
especially for a first time builder.
- Peter D.
I thoroughly enjoy the List.
- Larry B.
The List is a great resource.
- Dennis K.
The list is great entertainment.
- Gary Z.
Can't say enough about the good information
that I have received from reading the List.
- Robert C.
...it's the best!
- Steve F.
I'm addicted to the List!
- Rodney B.
The list has been a wonderful resource of
knowledge.
- Doug B.
As a first time builder, the lists have
been my most important source of information.
- James V.
It [read the List] is the first thing I do
every day is see what's new.
- Billie F.
The information available through the List
has made my flying safer...
- Dave R.
I get much more information about my plane
from this List than from all of my aviation
magazines combined.
- Roger H.
I love the list!!!!
- Ken L.
Much better value than a magazine subscription.
- Ted M.
...found it very useful.
- Allan J.
...this list has been a great service to me.
- Peter F.
I cannot express just how USEFUL the Lists are.
- Geoff T.
...a tremendous help to my RV-8 project and
a way to meet some of the best people going.
- Steve G.
The List is invaluable, and the best I've
ever seen.
- Ed C.
Like another family for many of us.
- John H.
The lists have saved a bunch of calls to
Van's for guidance.
- James V.
I think I'm addicted...
- Terry C.
Love it!
- David W.
The information really helps...
- Jim P.
...I find [it] very informative.
- Real D.
...List keeps me motivated... - Cliff M.
The exchange of information is really helpful...
- M.N.
Lots of great info on the List.
- Larry D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV7-List(at)matronics.com, RV8-List(at)matronics.com, RV9-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Subject: Buick Aluminum Block
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/tbird@ptsi.net/index.html
---------------------------------
EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV9-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Subject: Metal Engine Plenum Baffle
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/doneaves@midsouth.rr.com/index.html
---------------------------------
EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV9-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Subject: Cabin Air Exhaust Photos
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/grobdriver@yahoo.com/index.html
---------------------------------
EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Wilks" <patwilks(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/02/01 |
Hi Everyone:
Dyna-Cam is still hoping to locate an RV7 or RV8 builder who would like to
partner with us to do an installation of one of our first production units.
We are trying to locate someone within 50-60 miles from Los Angeles so that
our engineers can be available for consultation and assistance.
The engine is available immediately and we would like to locate someone who
can be ready to do the installation and be ready for test flights within a
couple of months. After discussions with several RV builders, it seems an
RV7 or RV8 would be the best testbed.
We would either give a discount on the engine or give company stock as an
incentive to complete the installation
and then make the plane available for demonstration at various air shows and
a monthly appointment schedule.
Please email direct if you are interested.
Pat Wilks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "edison" <edinetto(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Email List Photo Share Available! |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures(at)matronics.com>
;
Subject: RV7-List: New Email List Photo Share Available!
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
>
> Subject: Cabin Air Exhaust Photos
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/grobdriver@yahoo.com/index.html
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
>
> Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
> emailing the files to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
> Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
> Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I HATE deburring holes on the back side of ribs! No advice needed, just
thought I'd mention it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Ken Brooks ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV6-List(at)matronics.com, RV7-List(at)matronics.com, RV8-List(at)matronics.com,
RV9-List(at)matronics.com, Homebuilt-List(at)matronics.com,
Zenith-List(at)matronics.com, Tailwind-List(at)matronics.com,
Kolb-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Subject: Portable Bench Power Tool Cart
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kdbrv8r@charter.net.12.06.2001/index.html
---------------------------------
EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu> |
| Subject: | Backriveting the wings |
Looks like it will be time to rivet the top skins on the wings relatively
soon, and there is a fair amount of sentiment on the various RV lists for
backriveting them. Has anyone done this? Is it done with the wing in the
jig, and a second person holding the bucking bar on the manufactured head,
or taking it out of the jig and sliding the wing all over that little metal
plate used for backriveting other things like stiffeners? I got Avery's
long offset backriveting set, but it comes with all sorts of dire warnings
about messing up the skins, and "kids, don't try this at home."
Dan Masys
RV7A -wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
I ordered my quick build RV 7 in July and the wings and body were scheduled
for Feb, 02 delivery. They called me yesterday saying it was ready to pick
up!! Cool.
John Adams
RV7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Reuterskiold <mtnflyr(at)attglobal.net> |
Same expeience here. Ordered in July and brought home today. Garage now
TOTALLY taken over by -7. Be prepared for one big box :>))
John Adams wrote:
>
> I ordered my quick build RV 7 in July and the wings and body were scheduled
> for Feb, 02 delivery. They called me yesterday saying it was ready to pick
> up!! Cool.
> John Adams
> RV7
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Backriveting the wings |
Dan,
Backriveting the wings by using you bench mounted plate would be a heroic
endeavour - please visdeo it and send me a copy!
Choose a willing helper, give her a 2lb big bucking bar, leave the wing in
the jig and go for it with the Avery ofsett back riveting set. Use 35psi and
rivet for a count of "one". Each rivet should come out perfect.
Have fun, David Francis, Canberra Australia, left tank nearly finished.
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Masys, M.D. [mailto:dmasys(at)ucsd.edu]
Subject: RV7-List: Backriveting the wings
Looks like it will be time to rivet the top skins on the wings relatively
soon, and there is a fair amount of sentiment on the various RV lists for
backriveting them. Has anyone done this? Is it done with the wing in the
jig, and a second person holding the bucking bar on the manufactured head,
or taking it out of the jig and sliding the wing all over that little metal
plate used for backriveting other things like stiffeners? I got Avery's
long offset backriveting set, but it comes with all sorts of dire warnings
about messing up the skins, and "kids, don't try this at home."
Dan Masys
RV7A -wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Backriveting the wings |
Hey Dan,
I backriveted the first wing and found it to be a more difficult process
than normal riveting. The second wing I riveted the old fashioned way and
it turned out much better. I discovered that if I put a little piece of
magic tape over the flush set that the manufatured head of the rivet turned
out really nice. The trouble I had backriveting was that I couldn't keep
the shop head of the rivet from 'falling over' to one side. I guess it is
because of the angle in the backrivet set??? (It couldn't possibly be lack
of skill on the part of the operator. :-) Oh and don't take the wing out of
the jig just use a big heavy bucking bar. If you bought the Avery kit then
that big funny looking one (<- scientific description) works fine.
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings - Fuse ordered
Houston, Texas
http://www.myrv7.com
Takeoffs are optional, Landings are mandatory.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys(at)ucsd.edu>
Subject: RV7-List: Backriveting the wings
>
> Looks like it will be time to rivet the top skins on the wings relatively
> soon, and there is a fair amount of sentiment on the various RV lists for
> backriveting them. Has anyone done this? Is it done with the wing in the
> jig, and a second person holding the bucking bar on the manufactured head,
> or taking it out of the jig and sliding the wing all over that little
metal
> plate used for backriveting other things like stiffeners? I got Avery's
> long offset backriveting set, but it comes with all sorts of dire warnings
> about messing up the skins, and "kids, don't try this at home."
>
>
> Dan Masys
> RV7A -wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Photo Share Main Index Page - The Detail You Asked For... |
Hi Listers!
I've been noticing a lot of people having fun with the new Email List Photo
and File Share feature and I've seen a great many hits on the various
member pages.
A number of you wrote to say that some additional topic data on the Main
Photo Share Index page would certainly be helpful and I would have to agree.
It took a little programming, and it was a job retrofitting to all of the
older Shares, but I think you'll be pleased with the outcome! I've added
Poster Name, Photo Share Subject, and Target Email List data to the Main
Index. Clicking on a Subject text opens a new window with the Photo Share
and the thumbnails.
Have a look and feel free to submit your photos for sharing! The
instructions are at the top of the Main Photo Share Index Page.
The URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
Enjoy!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Fabian Lefler ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV7-List(at)matronics.com, RV8-List(at)matronics.com, RV9-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Subject: Wing Jig
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fablef@bellsouth.net.12.11.2001/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Rob Ray ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
RV7-List(at)matronics.com, RV8-List(at)matronics.com, RV9-List(at)matronics.com
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Subject: 160th F-16/RV Pilots
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/smokyray@yahoo.com.12.11.2001/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [ PLEASE READ ] : Matronics Network Upgrade Mon. 12/17/01 |
Listers,
According to my ISP, Speakeasy, they will be doing some sort of "backbone
upgrade" Monday, 12/17/01. Their message doesn't mention whether or not
this will impact connectivity for any length of time. I wanted everyone to
know that there might be a time when access to the Matronics Web Server and
Email Lists might be unavailable. If there's a problem, I'll post a
message from a different email address with details.
Bottom line: Hopefully nobody will notice...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
,
Finally got some info about the ATP powerplant...
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com:8000
Dear Sir,
Here is some information on the 6.5 uncertified turbine engine.
Weight 185 lbs
Length 32'' overall to prop flange
Diameter 12 1/2" maximum located at the hot section
10" diameter of gearbox
Height 16" overall located at accessory pad on gearbox
Burns JetA, Kerosene, Diesel and Gasoline
The preferred fuels are JetA and Kerosene
Four point conical mount
20 to 1 double planetary gearbox
Gearbox designed for 500 hp continuous 600 hp peak
Example ( If turbine is turning 60,000 rpm prop turning 3000 rpm)
Single stage radial flow turbine centrifugal compressor
Electronic fuel injection
Electronic ignition
120hp 10.7 gals/hr 300 lbs thrust at 2650 rpm
180hp 13.3 gals/hr 450lbs thrust at 2750 rpm
240hp 16.6 gals/hr 600lbs thrust at 3000rpm
maximum rpm at propeller 3200 rpm
usable rpm range in fight 2500 to 3200 rpm
Designed to operate efficiently at variable rpm
We already have a pusher. We plan on debuting it at Sun n Fun 2002.
Production starts in Jan. 2002. We are offering a pre-production price of
23,000.00 only by putting down your deposit of 25%. We will soon be able to
accept your deposit on a secure area of our website.
Thanks for interest in ATP if you are in need of further information please
feel free to email or call. You can visit our web page at www.atpcoinc.com
or the ATP Yahoo Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATP1
We hope to hear from you soon!
Take Care,
Heather L. Mitchell
Director of Internet Sales
--
On Sat, 3 Nov 2001 10:08:43 Dan Checkoway wrote:
>Please send me as much information as possible, including the info video if
>it's available.
>
>Dan Checkoway
>2420 N. Flower St.
>Santa Ana, CA 92706
>
>Thanks,
>)_( Dan
>dan(at)rvproject.com
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
does anyone have comments on the optional lighting on
rv7
van's has several optional systems
some have hi voltage transformerr in the wing -- some
in the fuse
i am sure there are pros and cons for each
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/17/01 |
Cary,
I will put in my two cents on the lighting options, I am going with the
wingtip mounted power supply to keep that high voltage as far from the radios
as possible to lesson the chance of noise in the radio and intercom. I have
been in a lot of planes where this was a problem.
Mark, fuse 75%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED. - RE: RV7-LIGHTING OPTIONS |
Cary,
Selection depends on your priorities and the subsequent design philosophy
you implement. I wanted low drag, moderate cost and came up with my own
option as follows:
a. Duckworks landing & taxi lights in the leading edge - had to be there
because I will have the Johanson tip tanks.
b. Flush nav lights in the tip tank leading edges.
c. Strobe on top of the fin (inside a clear copy of the fin tip fairing)
plus a combined tail light/strobe at the bottom of the rudder. This means I
get 360 degree strobe coverage above and below with only one power source
nearby - either in the aft battery bay or in the tail, away from the radios.
I only need one power source for the strobes, but it cannot be the cheapest
since it has to drive two strobes. Overall, simple, low drag, moderate cost.
David Francis, Canberra, Australia, RV7 wings. Proseal everywhere.
____
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: lights
does anyone have comments on the optional lighting on
rv7
van's has several optional systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Okrent3209(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV7 Lighting Options |
David,
Can you tell me the sources and part numbers for the products you mentioned
in your message to Cary?
Thanks,
Mike Okrent, RV7A just starting the rudder
Cary,
Selection depends on your priorities and the subsequent design philosophy
you implement. I wanted low drag, moderate cost and came up with my own
option as follows:
a. Duckworks landing & taxi lights in the leading edge - had to be there
because I will have the Johanson tip tanks.
b. Flush nav lights in the tip tank leading edges.
c. Strobe on top of the fin (inside a clear copy of the fin tip fairing)
plus a combined tail light/strobe at the bottom of the rudder. This means I
get 360 degree strobe coverage above and below with only one power source
nearby - either in the aft battery bay or in the tail, away from the radios.
I only need one power source for the strobes, but it cannot be the cheapest
since it has to drive two strobes. Overall, simple, low drag, moderate cost.
David Francis, Canberra, Australia, RV7 wings. Proseal everywhere.
Mike Okrent Sc.D., CPIM, CIRM, CQE, CQA, CQMgr, PMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | RV7 Lighting Options |
Mike, yes, I took it all from the Spruce catalog, which is at home, I shall
check it again and email you the details, perhaps tomorrow. Additionally I
have made a mold of the fin top fairing and will have a clear copy made, if
its successful I could probably make one for you, to save drag.
Regards, David.
-----Original Message-----
From: Okrent3209(at)aol.com [mailto:Okrent3209(at)aol.com]
Subject: RV7-List: RV7 Lighting Options
David,
Can you tell me the sources and part numbers for the products you mentioned
in your message to Cary?
Thanks,
Mike Okrent, RV7A just starting the rudder
Cary,
Selection depends on your priorities and the subsequent design philosophy
you implement. I wanted low drag, moderate cost and came up with my own
option as follows:
a. Duckworks landing & taxi lights in the leading edge - had to be there
because I will have the Johanson tip tanks.
b. Flush nav lights in the tip tank leading edges.
c. Strobe on top of the fin (inside a clear copy of the fin tip fairing)
plus a combined tail light/strobe at the bottom of the rudder. This means I
get 360 degree strobe coverage above and below with only one power source
nearby - either in the aft battery bay or in the tail, away from the radios.
I only need one power source for the strobes, but it cannot be the cheapest
since it has to drive two strobes. Overall, simple, low drag, moderate cost.
David Francis, Canberra, Australia, RV7 wings. Proseal everywhere.
Mike Okrent Sc.D., CPIM, CIRM, CQE, CQA, CQMgr, PMP
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | wing bag hardware parts list |
Back in September one of the list members sent me a .doc copy of the bag
hardware parts list for the empannage. Now that I am working on the wing,
and I lost the email address of who helped out last time, I was wondering
if anyone had entered the wing bag hardware parts list and could make a
machine readable copy available.
Thanks,
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A - empannage complete (except for one elevator),
reconfiguring jig for wing, N14SE reserved
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are
easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
an opinion please on priming the spar?
it seems reasonable to leave the anodined surface
intact, but i have seen some pictures with a primed
spar
cary rhodes, 30% wings
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> |
Does anyone know of a web site that tells one how to read the codes on AN
hardware?
Also, the drawing for the rudder and brake assembly calls for castle nuts on
several bolts but my hardware kit only included 2 AN3 castle nuts. Is there
a change to nylocks?
John Adams
N577RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
aircraft spruce catalog is the best reference manual
in the house
cary rhodes
--- John Adams wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know of a web site that tells one how to
> read the codes on AN
> hardware?
> Also, the drawing for the rudder and brake assembly
> calls for castle nuts on
> several bolts but my hardware kit only included 2
> AN3 castle nuts. Is there
> a change to nylocks?
> John Adams
> N577RV
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Clark <lclark(at)indra.com> |
Hi,
I'm no expert on this, but if you meant "anodized" instead of "anodined"
(not sure what that is), then I don't think there's any good reason to
prime. You can't get much better protection on aluminum than an anodized
finish, I think. I wonder if the primed spars you've seen pictures of
were built from scratch (instead of the nice pre-fabricated anodized spars
that are standard on the RV-7 kits).
-- Lynn
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, cary rhodes wrote:
>
> an opinion please on priming the spar?
>
> it seems reasonable to leave the anodined surface
> intact, but i have seen some pictures with a primed
> spar
>
> cary rhodes, 30% wings
>
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com |
I've completed the vertical stabilizer and ready to rivet the horizontal one.
I primed all parts including the skins on the VS. My question: is it
necessary to prime the skins as I understand they are already primed??
Thanks--I appreciate your comments as this is still new to me.
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
beginning rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Hauck" <ross(at)rossreels.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV7-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/31/01 |
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7-List: primer
an opinion please on priming the spar?
it seems reasonable to leave the anodined surface
intact, but i have seen some pictures with a primed
spar
cary rhodes, 30% wings
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
The spar is actually anodized. This is a conversion process that
changes the surface from aluminum to aluminum oxide. It is the most
corrosion resistant surface imaginable. We manufacture flyfishing reels
for salt water fishing - all of our reels are anodized aluminum and have
proven impervious to corrosion for 29 years.
That said, I would recommend that you carefully primer all the
countersinks in the spar flanges before riveting on the skins.
Ross - waiting for my proseal to arrive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tool for pop rivets |
| From: | Pam Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org> |
Hi
Made a simple little tool to add on to the rivet for those hard to get
places. Like the Z brackets for the fuel tank. I used some round stock, same
diameter as rivet head, and drilled a hole in center. Then I cut it roughly
45 degrees about 1/4 in. long. Slipped it on to top of rivet, flat side on
top of rivet. Slipped it on to rivet gun. Then you I had to bend the rivet
shank as you stick it into the hole. Try it on a piece of scrap first. It
worked great for me.
Scott Trask
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Clark <lclark(at)indra.com> |
AFAIK, none of the parts (with the exception of the powder-coated hinge
brackets) come primed. The skins, spars, ribs, etc., (everything made
from sheet aluminum) are "alclad" which means that the outer surfaces are
a layer of pure aluminum which offers natural corrosion resistance. (The
inner layer is an aluminum alloy.) Therefore, you really don't have to do
anything to it if you choose not to, but most builders prime the inner
surfaces just for added protection. (I think this is all explained in the
construction manual.) Later, after the aircraft is assembled, the outside
surfaces would get a primer coat before the final paint is applied.
-- Lynn
RV-7 empennage -- going slooooowww
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I've completed the vertical stabilizer and ready to rivet the horizontal one.
> I primed all parts including the skins on the VS. My question: is it
> necessary to prime the skins as I understand they are already primed??
>
> Thanks--I appreciate your comments as this is still new to me.
>
> Russ Clifford
> Lake Forest, CA
> beginning rudder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com> |
| Subject: | stiffeners adhesive |
getting ready to install the stiffeners in the rudder. It has been
recommended by a few to use adhesive i.e.. proseal or RTV sealant to help
reduce loosening due to vibrations. What's the consensus - waste of time and
$$ or a must do ?
Does anybody have any hints on applying the RTV on the stiffeners and back
riveting ?
Thanks
Wayne
RV7a empennage in Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stiffeners adhesive |
Wayne,
I applied the RTV to the aft intersection of the
stiffeners in the rudder and elevators. I just
squeezed a big glob of it into each junction and then
riveted them closed. I didn't apply anything between
the skin and stiffeners before back riveting. That
wouldn't be necessary.
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7 Wings 50%
North Idaho
--- Wayne Pedersen
wrote:
>
>
> getting ready to install the stiffeners in the
> rudder. It has been
> recommended by a few to use adhesive i.e.. proseal
> or RTV sealant to help
> reduce loosening due to vibrations. What's the
> consensus - waste of time and
> $$ or a must do ?
>
> Does anybody have any hints on applying the RTV on
> the stiffeners and back
> riveting ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne
> RV7a empennage in Southern Alberta
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Heads up on the Fuse |
Ran ito a small problem on my RV7A QB Fuse
On the top of the F705 Bulkhead ...
One needs to fabricate the F705 J Angle, the F705 L Shim, and the
F705 K Plate. I found the material for the angle and the shim but I have no
material for the plate, nor is it listed (material AS3 .040 1 7/8 x 16 1/4)
in my original packing list.
Called Van's today and they will send the material. Other builders I queried
were also missing the material. You might want to check before you get to
that point.
John McDonnell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Kwitek" <mkwitek(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stiffeners adhesive |
If you RTV from the stiffener to the trailing edge, I would think there
would be no way for water to drain out and this could become a corrosion
trap.
Marty Kwitek
RV7A - Empennage
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: RV7-List: stiffeners adhesive
>
> getting ready to install the stiffeners in the rudder. It has been
> recommended by a few to use adhesive i.e.. proseal or RTV sealant to help
> reduce loosening due to vibrations. What's the consensus - waste of time
and
> $$ or a must do ?
>
> Does anybody have any hints on applying the RTV on the stiffeners and back
> riveting ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne
> RV7a empennage in Southern Alberta
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ned Bowers" <nbowers(at)skybolt.com> |
Dear John:
Look on our Website www.skybolt.com for information on AN hardware. Call
us if we may be of help.
800-223-1963.
Regards, Ned Bowers
----- Original Message -----
From: "cary rhodes" <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: AN Hardware
>
> aircraft spruce catalog is the best reference manual
> in the house
>
> cary rhodes
> --- John Adams wrote:
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know of a web site that tells one how to
> > read the codes on AN
> > hardware?
> > Also, the drawing for the rudder and brake assembly
> > calls for castle nuts on
> > several bolts but my hardware kit only included 2
> > AN3 castle nuts. Is there
> > a change to nylocks?
> > John Adams
> > N577RV
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions of
> > any other form
> >
> > latest messages.
> > other List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [RV7and7A] Re: Food for thought... |
On this note:
> Are you sure you are quoting premiums at the same coverage levels
> with the same pilot ratings / hours?
I am a first-time homebuilder, building an RV-7, planning on putting in a
200hp Lycoming IO-360A3B6 (or a LyCon or Bart conversion or something
similar). I would love to get a sense of the "insurance pricing matrix",
which I guess would include the following (and probably several other)
axes/variables:
- hull value
- coverage limits
- pilot's total hours
- pilot's ratings
- pilot's tailwheel time (is this a factor?)
- first time builder (is this a factor?)
- engine type/certification/size (is size/horsepower a factor?)
- existing policy (same insurance co. or other) on a production aircraft
(is this a factor?)
Is there anybody out there who knows the definitive set of variables that
are taken into account? Does it vary from company to company?
I have high total time, a handful of ratings, plenty of tailwheel & retract
time (for whatever that's worth), I fly regularly, etc. I haven't gone
ahead and gotten a quote for my RV-7 yet (it'll be at least a year or two at
this rate), but I'd love to find out roughly what it's gonna run me...or at
least what it would cost today.
I wonder if there's any way to create an N-dimensional poll of sorts...where
currently flying RV pilots can enter the values for all these variables and
we could come up with some sort of meaningful average. Any ideas? I guess
short of something fancy, if anybody feels compelled to post their
information to the list (or feel free to send it to me privately if you
prefer), please do!
Thanks,
)_( Dan
dan(at)rvproject.com
http://www.rvproject.com:8000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Blue cellophane covering |
I'm getting close to finishing my empennage and wanted the general opinion of
you folks further into the project than myself. Is is a good idea to leave
the blue covering on the skins until painting several years from now or is it
better to remove it when the part is completed?
Thank you.
Russ Clifford
Lake Forest, CA
getting ready to start rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue cellophane covering |
I'm leaving mine on.
Neil 7qb wings
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Blue cellophane covering
>
> I'm getting close to finishing my empennage and wanted the general opinion
of
> you folks further into the project than myself. Is is a good idea to
leave
> the blue covering on the skins until painting several years from now or is
it
> better to remove it when the part is completed?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Russ Clifford
> Lake Forest, CA
> getting ready to start rudder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "a v" <jajvann(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue covering |
Hi Russ clifford,
I'm debating with my inner-self about ordering a kit. Would you share some
info with me about how many hours the tail actually took and what your
building experience is? Did you order everything at once, or just the
empennage to start with? What would you do different if you were to order
now?
thanks,
andy
>From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com
>Subject: RV7-List: Blue cellophane covering
>
>
>I'm getting close to finishing my empennage and wanted the general opinion
>of
>you folks further into the project than myself. Is is a good idea to leave
>the blue covering on the skins until painting several years from now or is
>it
>better to remove it when the part is completed?
>
>Thank you.
>
>Russ Clifford
>Lake Forest, CA
>getting ready to start rudder
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Blue cellophane covering |
| From: | "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com> |
01/05/2002 10:18:24 AM
I took mine off. I'm not polishing my airplane (I will paint) and I didn't
care to take the risk of corrosion between the plastic and the aluminum
.... or taking the risk of having great difficulty in removing it (I'm a
slow builder). I don't know if it is true, but I have read of cases
(allogations) of corrosion between the plastic and the aluminum.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue cellophane covering |
Russ..it has been my experience that leaving the plastic covering on the "skins"
will protect them from "hanger rash"...but..in the year it took to almost
complete my RV8A, some of the "protected pieces" were found to have corrosion
along the edges when I peeled the plastic off..just an observation...for what
it's worth...jolly in aurora, or.
RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com wrote:
>
May 13, 2001 - January 05, 2002
RV7-Archive.digest.vol-aa