RV7-Archive.digest.vol-ab

January 05, 2002 - August 26, 2002



      > I'm getting close to finishing my empennage and wanted the general opinion of
      > you folks further into the project than myself.  Is is a good idea to leave
      > the blue covering on the skins until painting several years from now or is it
      > better to remove it when the part is completed?
      >
      > Thank you.
      >
      > Russ Clifford
      > Lake Forest, CA
      > getting ready to start rudder
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Re: Blue cellophane covering
Date: Jan 05, 2002
Ellis H Mcgaughy writes : > I took mine off. I'm not polishing my airplane (I will paint) and I didn't > care to take the risk of corrosion between the plastic and the aluminum > .... or taking the risk of having great difficulty in removing it (I'm a > slow builder). I don't know if it is true, but I have read of cases > (allogations) of corrosion between the plastic and the aluminum. I'm pulling mine off, for what it's worth. I intend to store the finished parts by hanging them from the (10 foot tall) ceiling of the garage, so I hope that'll reduce the chance of "hangar rash". I have also heard that after time (and I, too, am a slow builder) the plastic becomes more difficult to take off. The info about the possibility of corosion is new to me, but I can see how that sort of problem might occur too. Like Ellis, I am going to paint so keeping the skins perfectly un-scuffed isn't an issue. Just another datapoint for your consideration. -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Blue cellophane covering
Date: Jan 05, 2002
When I built my 6a I cut the plastic with a flat soldering gun tip. Just stripe where the rivet lines are. Remember to remove the plastic before dimpling or you'll end up having to pick a bunch of tiny smashed plastic circles out of the dimples.. After a two year building process I removed the plastic, (which was clear and seemed to have a more aggressive adhesive than the blue on my 7 emp) with little effort. Just take it slow and wipe down with lantern fluid to remove any adhesive residue after. The big thing is after working for two years in a heated garage in New York, I've found mild surface oxidation to the areas that were exposed to the atmosphere. It was really noticeable when I pulled off the remaining plastic and was able to make a direct comparison. Needless to say it cleaned up with scotch bright pads and painted well. FWIW Steven DiNieri Rv6a N221RV Rv7a ?????? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Blue cellophane covering
The warning about not dimpling with the plastic in place may not be necessary, as it's very difficult to de-burr the holes without removing the plastic from them. Since the flow is drill -> deburr -> dimple, you'll have to get the plastic out of the way anyway before dimpling... Of course, that's assuming you were deburring all your holes, right? 8-) -RB4 Steven DiNieri wrote: > > > When I built my 6a I cut the plastic with a flat soldering gun >tip. Just stripe where the rivet lines are. Remember to remove the >plastic before dimpling or you'll end up having to pick a bunch of tiny >smashed plastic circles out of the dimples.. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2002
Subject: [ Alex Peterson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Alex Peterson Subject: VM11120A Vacuum switch http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/alexpeterson@usjet.net.01.06.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: corvair engines
Date: Jan 07, 2002
Starting that daunting task of looking for a engine for the RV 7. Have a local guy here who is building 2 planes with corvair engines. He is offering one to me and with high compression pistons and fuel injections. The price is right and he claims about 180-hp when the mods are completed. Any thoughts or experience on these in RV's ??? Searched the archives and didn't come up with anything Thanks Wayne in Southern Alberta RV7 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2002
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: corvair engines
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Wayne Pedersen wrote: > > Starting that daunting task of looking for a engine for the RV 7. Have a > local guy here who is building 2 planes with corvair engines. He is > offering one to me and with high compression pistons and fuel injections. > The price is right and he claims about 180-hp when the mods are completed. > > Any thoughts or experience on these in RV's ??? Searched the archives and > didn't come up with anything Wayne, Go to http://home.HiWAAY.net/~langford/ and follow Mark Langford's links about his Corvair conversion. There has been a wealth of work done on the Corvair and most is reachable from Mark's site. Bottom line, if you are looking for 100 - 130 hp. then the Corvair can be a reliable solution. More than that and you are looking at longevity issues. Steve Eberhart RV-7A - empannage complete (except for one elevator), reconfiguring jig for wing, N14SE reserved One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Hauck" <ross(at)rossreels.com>
Subject: RE: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/07/02
Date: Jan 08, 2002
Wayne; You've got to get into the great controversy of the 21st century: The Eggenfellner Subaru Aircraft Engine. My son & I are convinced that this is the engine for us (RV-7a & RV-8). Obviously you're open to auto conversions, so at least take a peek: www.subaruaircraft.com. -----Original Message----- From: rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com [mailto:rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com] Subject: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/07/02 ________ From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com> Subject: RV7-List: corvair engines Starting that daunting task of looking for a engine for the RV 7. Have a local guy here who is building 2 planes with corvair engines. He is offering one to me and with high compression pistons and fuel injections. The price is right and he claims about 180-hp when the mods are completed. Any thoughts or experience on these in RV's ??? Searched the archives and didn't come up with anything Thanks Wayne in Southern Alberta RV7 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: RE:auto conversions
Date: Jan 09, 2002
Ross This is a very interesting subject / controversy. I have been looking at the subaru engines as well and like the simplicity of operating and of course the economics. Concerns are that there are not that many installed and flying yet as far as I can see and waiting to see how they fair in the -7. I am interested in your pro and cons that led you to this decision and of course anybody else's opinions as well. Thanks Wayne in s.alberta rv-7 rudder From: "Ross Hauck" <ross(at)rossreels.com> Subject: RV7-List: RE: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/07/02 Wayne; You've got to get into the great controversy of the 21st century: The Eggenfellner Subaru Aircraft Engine. My son & I are convinced that this is the engine for us (RV-7a & RV-8). Obviously you're open to auto conversions, so at least take a peek: www.subaruaircraft.com. -----Original Message----- From: rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com [mailto:rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com] Subject: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/07/02 ________ From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com> Subject: RV7-List: corvair engines Starting that daunting task of looking for a engine for the RV 7. Have a local guy here who is building 2 planes with corvair engines. He is offering one to me and with high compression pistons and fuel injections. The price is right and he claims about 180-hp when the mods are completed. Any thoughts or experience on these in RV's ??? Searched the archives and didn't come up with anything Thanks Wayne in Southern Alberta RV7 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krone" <xray41(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Auto Conversions
Date: Jan 12, 2002
My Questions / concerns about Auto conversions: 1 What output power are they designed to operate at? probably about 30% 2 At 4000 RPM how long will they last and what will the power to the prop be? Its my feeling that most auto engines don't operate at 75% power continuously very long and if you do operate the this way how can they be kept cool enough. My experience with auto engines in planes is only as an observer,I have not owned one myself. Ray Krone N210RM soon to be RV 8 Builder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2002
From: John Solecki <jsolecki(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: RE: Auto Conversions
Ray Krone wrote: > > My Questions / concerns about Auto conversions: > > 1 What output power are they designed to operate at? probably about > 30% > > 2 At 4000 RPM how long will they last and what will the power to the > prop be? > > Its my feeling that most auto engines don't operate at 75% power > continuously very long and if you do operate the this way how can they > be kept cool enough. My experience with auto engines in planes is only > as an observer,I have not owned one myself. > > Ray Krone > N210RM soon to be RV 8 Builder > 1. Auto engines are designed to operate at anything from idle to full power. Their design duty cycle i.e. the average percentage of power output they operate at over their life is probably around 30%. However-- Most engines are durability tested at full throttle for a minimum of 1000 hours. A typical Detroit durability test would be full throttle, rpm cycling between peak torque rpm and peak horsepower rpm (typically 4500 rpm to 6500 rpm) for 1000 hours stopping only for oil changes and any required maintenance. A Japanese test would likely be even more severe. 2. At 4000 rpm most well designed auto engines would easily go 1500-2500 hours. To know how much power would be available at the prop you need to see a torque/horsepower graph for the the engine and then multiply that by the efficiency of your reduction drive. For a rough calculation divide 4000 by the redline rpm of the engine in question and then use that factor multiplied by published horsepower to give an approximation of the engine's output power. 3. Monitor the coolant and oil temps and make sure they aren't excessive. Shoot for 195 degree coolant and 215 oil maximum temps. Sometimes the water pump RPM has to be slowed down a little (use a bigger pulley) and don't skimp on heat exchanger (radiator) size. Hope this helps. John Scarborough, Ontario, Canada RV-7 Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: Dynacam Engine Demo at Flabob
Date: Jan 13, 2002
I bopped up to Flabob today for the Dynacam engine demo and the EAA BBQ. Great time. Random meaningless pictures here: http://www.rvproject.com:8000/images/flabob/ A couple RVs (one really beautiful RV-6A, other than that nosewheel), a few other interesting planes, great folks, lots of chicken. The Dynacam engine seems like it has possibilities. For those who aren't familiar with it, it's a 12-cylinder engine. There are 6 pairs of connected, outwardly opposing pistons. Basically 6 double-sided pistons. They fire back and forth along the engine's longitudinal axis, which is aligned with the aircraft's longitudinal axis (or vertical in a heli). There is a large "cam wheel" centrally located on the drive shaft. This cam "wobbles" back and forth, so to speak, pushing the piston pairs back and forth. There are valves on each end of the engine. Very interesting design. It's supposed to be a bit lighter than a traditional 4-banger, and apparently it's smooth to boot. They claim 210 hp. Dammit...I left the brochure up there on the picnic table! Duh. Well, anyway, my opinion (I know, you didn't ask) is that this engine ain't for me. I'm not comfortable with the forces imparted on the cam wheel. There are roller bearings all over this engine, and I don't like that. The engine's redline is 2000 RPM, and cruise power setting is 1700 RPM. What kind of prop can you swing at that speed? I don't know much about gear reduction other than the fact that I don't want to mess with it. And I don't know props well enough either. Somebody needs to tell me what would be involved in properly thrusting an RV-7 with an engine only turning 1700-2000 RPM. One more thing...the engine config Dynacam is using has dual carbs (not for me), although they say there's a fuel injection system that produces identical power. Hm. I'd like to see how these engines perform over hundreds of thousands of collective flight hours. They've got an Arrow flying with one of these suckers right now. We'll see. Anyway, it was really interesting to see a different design. Good food for thought. Who wants to buy my Mooney? http://www.m20j.com:8000 I need to sell it so I can buy the rest of my RV-7. Argh! )_( Dan dan(at)rvproject.com http://www.rvproject.com:8000 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 14, 2002
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/13/02
In a message dated 1/13/02 11:54:47 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << Somebody needs to tell me what would be involved in properly thrusting an RV-7 with an engine only turning 1700-2000 RPM. >> Lots of blade surface... Look at some of the big old radial engines, those are the rpm's they used... Good looking Mooney, Dan. Makes me think one needs at least two airplanes... :-) Cheers, Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR RV6a waiting for finish kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Wilks" <patwilks(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/13/02
Date: Jan 14, 2002
Just want to clear up a couple of questions Dan raised below: ____ > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > , > Subject: RV7-List: Dynacam Engine Demo at Flabob > > > I bopped up to Flabob today for the Dynacam engine demo and the EAA BBQ. > Great time. > A couple RVs (one really beautiful RV-6A, other than that nosewheel), a few > other interesting planes, great folks, lots of chicken. > > The Dynacam engine seems like it has possibilities. For those who aren't > familiar with it, it's a 12-cylinder engine. There are 6 pairs of > connected, outwardly opposing pistons. Basically 6 double-sided pistons. > They fire back and forth along the engine's longitudinal axis, which is > aligned with the aircraft's longitudinal axis (or vertical in a heli). > There is a large "cam wheel" centrally located on the drive shaft. This cam > "wobbles" back and forth, so to speak, pushing the piston pairs back and > forth. There are valves on each end of the engine. > > Very interesting design. It's supposed to be a bit lighter than a > traditional 4-banger, and apparently it's smooth to boot. They claim 210 > hp. Dammit...I left the brochure up there on the picnic table! Duh. --Most of the info is on the website: http://www.dynacam.com or send us your address and we'll send you another one. --Just wanted to clarify a couple of points here: > I'm not comfortable with the forces imparted on the cam wheel. >There are roller bearings all over this engine, --Just to clarify, there are no damaging forces on the cam wheel. The cam surface where the cam-follower roller-bearings ride is a special case hardened bearing steel that shows no wear even after 2,000 hours of running. The 2 rollers in each piston, ride on each side of the cam, making the design a 'roller bearing engine.' All the surfaces are sprayed with oil continually. The engine had almost zero wear on all critical surfaces during the FAA certification tests. The engine's redline is 2000 RPM, and cruise power setting is 1700 RPM. What > kind of prop can you swing at that speed? --Turbo props can turn their props any speed they want. They choose to run turbo props at between 1700 and 2,000 for the most part because props can be designed to run more efficiently in those RPM ranges. Any prop designer can design a prop to require 200 HP in order to turn the prop up to 1700 or 2,000 RPM. I don't know much about gear > reduction other than the fact that I don't want to mess with it. --Good point. The Dyna-Cam gives you the benefit of a geared engine without having to have gears. > > One more thing...the engine config Dynacam is using has dual carbs (not for > me), although they say there's a fuel injection system that produces > identical power. --The engines that are being produced will be fuel injected like the engine pictured on our web site. Only the first engine prototype that we installed in the Piper Arrow that you saw in our video had dual carbs. We later changed over with the blessing of our FAA rep. --Thanks for the review and the opportunity to try to clear up a couple of these points. Regards, Pat Wilks, Dyna-Cam > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/13/02
Date: Jan 14, 2002
> --Just wanted to clarify a couple of points here: > > I'm not comfortable with the forces imparted on the cam wheel. Pat, How about that issue? I'm probably visualizing this incorrectly, but it would seem that while the top cylinder is firing from left to right, the bottom cylinder is firing from right to left (or front/back, however you want to put it). The opposite motion leads me to believe that there's a 2x moment applied on the outer edges of the cam wheel. That would impart a "twisting force" in the main shaft. Couple that with gyroscopic precession, and the situation gets nasty quick. This cam wheel/shaft design seems prone to stress issues...both the surface on the cam wheel constantly being pushed on, and the shaft and its bearings having to resist the twist. Any word on this? Am I smoking crack? )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Wilks" <patwilks(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/14/02
Date: Jan 15, 2002
____ > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/13/02 > > > > --Just wanted to clarify a couple of points here: > > > I'm not comfortable with the forces imparted on the cam wheel. > > Pat, > > How about that issue? I'm probably visualizing this incorrectly, but it > would seem that while the top cylinder is firing from left to right, the > bottom cylinder is firing from right to left (or front/back, however you > want to put it). > > The opposite motion leads me to believe that there's a 2x moment applied on > the outer edges of the cam wheel. That would impart a "twisting force" in > the main shaft. Couple that with gyroscopic precession, and the situation > gets nasty quick. > > This cam wheel/shaft design seems prone to stress issues...both the surface > on the cam wheel constantly being pushed on, and the shaft and its bearings > having to resist the twist. > > Any word on this? Am I smoking crack? --There are 12 cylinders in the Dyna-Cam and each fires with every revolution (only 3 pistons fire with each revolution of a conventional engine). After one end fires, 30 degrees later the piston on the opposite end and on the other side of the diameter fires. There are always 3 pistons on the power pulse at any one time. It creates a smooth, harmonious, continual force, much like an electric motor. After reviewing the operation for about two hours, I had a man who spent 50 years as the cam expert for Bullova watches make the claim to me that our piston cam operation was sheer perfection and could not be improved. --You can look at the animation on the website of our plastic model at http://www.dynacam.com/Product/Design_Overview/design_overview.html - it really illustrates the cam piston actuation. The plastic models can be mail ordered from our office also. Thanks again, Pat Wilks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2002
From: Mark Olson <MOLSON1(at)MN.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Dynacam
> The engine's redline is 2000 RPM, and cruise power setting is 1700 RPM. > What > > kind of prop can you swing at that speed? > --Turbo props can turn their props any speed they want. They choose > to run turbo props at between 1700 and 2,000 for the most part because props > can be designed to run more efficiently in those RPM ranges. Any prop > designer can design a prop to require 200 HP in order to turn the prop up to > 1700 or 2,000 RPM. I would think you'd need a pretty big prop to do this, and there would be ground clearance issues in a small plane. > > > This cam wheel/shaft design seems prone to stress issues...both the surface > on the cam wheel constantly being pushed on, and the shaft and its bearings > having to resist the twist. > > Some automotive air conditioning compressors are configured exactly the same way - a central swashplate with opposed pistons pushing on it. This engine has been around a long time. I remember Popular Science in the 70's doing an article on it. I think there were issues about the bearings and swashplate wear. Perhaps they've been solved by now. I think that the side forces on the pistons as well as the "twist" on the swashplate would be interesting engineering problems. Another engine question: Is the 180 hp IO-360 Lycoming a slant-valve or a parallel-valve engine? Someone told me that a 180 IO-360 is the same engine as the 200 hp IO-360 with lower compression pistons, and I am not sure if this is correct. Mark Olson RV-7A, Empennage kit mostly finished - awaiting QB fuselage/wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Slgmjg1(at)cs.com
Date: Jan 15, 2002
Subject: Re: Dynacam
Mark, Just to let you know something I found out this past week on 180hp IO360's. You need to be careful because some of those engine's have the fuel injection at the rear of the engine and will not work in an RV unless you buy a new oil sump and new intake components. I was looking at one and called van's and they said it would take some work to convert. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Re: Dynacam (& Lycoming 360's)
Date: Jan 15, 2002
Mark, I've been watching the dynacam development for many years, and I hope it works out for them. One should not compare the engine with the "swashplate" type of pump found in conditioner pumps, or 747/777 etc.. hydraulic pumps. The dynacam does note use a flat "swashplate" type of rotor at all, in fact it's kind of wavy. From an engineering standpoint this puts little "twisting" force on the shaft. Also in the dynacam the pistons work on both sides of the rotor, not one. Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion either way, I just pay attention to facts, not rampant opinions or pure speculation. As far as a prop, it would be very easy for a company to optimize a wide cord constant speed prop for those things, since that's typically the range of RPM used by Turboprops. Regarding your (I)O-360 question, the typical 180 h.p. Lycoming is NOT the same engine as the 200 h.p. engine. There are a very few derated 200 h.p. engines around, but most 180 h.p. ones like My AEIO-360-B4A have parallel valve heads, and is similar to others. The 200 h.p. IO-360 has a totally different head on it, with Angled Valves. This engine is a couple of inches wider, which is why it won't fit under the RV4 or RV6 cowling without modification (but a few have shoehorned them in). The easiest way to identify the difference between the engines by appearance is the valve covers. The parallel valve 180 h.p. 360's have the same large deep valve covers as the 290's and 320's. The agle valve 200 h.p. 360's have very shallow valve covers (space conservation) that look similar to the IO-540's. Hope this helps out! Stein Bruch RV6, Minneapolis Finishing Some automotive air conditioning compressors are configured exactly the same way - a central swashplate with opposed pistons pushing on it. This engine has been around a long time. I remember Popular Science in the 70's doing an article on it. I think there were issues about the bearings and swashplate wear. Perhaps they've been solved by now. I think that the side forces on the pistons as well as the "twist" on the swashplate would be interesting engineering problems. Another engine question: Is the 180 hp IO-360 Lycoming a slant-valve or a parallel-valve engine? Someone told me that a 180 IO-360 is the same engine as the 200 hp IO-360 with lower compression pistons, and I am not sure if this is correct. Mark Olson RV-7A, Empennage kit mostly finished - awaiting QB fuselage/wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: O-360's (was dynacam).
Date: Jan 15, 2002
Sorry, but this is just not correct at all. To my knowledge (limited and I can be wrong) there were very few 180h.p. IO-360's with the fuel servo mounted in the rear. There were however many carburated O-360's with horizontal mounted carbs (cherokees) made, these are the A1C, & A1G series of O-360's and a few others. The are some helicopter IO-360's with the fuel servo in the back and are probably VIO's (Helicopter) and/or some HIO's (helicopter). Lycoming has made hundreds of variants, but for the most part the MAJORITY of Injected 360's have the fuel servo in the same lower sump spot as the 320's do. Many of the 200 h.p. IO-360's DO have the fuel servo mounted horizontally in some applications. Please don't flame me on this, I just wanted people to know that the majority of 180 h.p. IO-360's have the servo in the same location as the carurated 180h.p. 360's. These are still being produced new and are being installed on several new production aircraft. I know there is almost one of every type of configuration you can think of and Lycoming made an effort to confuse us all with the hundreds of variants. For everyone's enjoyment, I've scanned the Lycoming engine spec sheets onto my website and they'll be available later tonight or tomorrow for viewing under the engine section. FYI,I have a 180 h.p. AEIO-360-B4A and my servo is mounted in the standard position and looks just like a regular 0-360 as do MANY of the IO-360's. Cheers, Stein Bruch, A&P RV6, Minneapolis, Finishing. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Slgmjg1(at)cs.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: Dynacam Mark, Just to let you know something I found out this past week on 180hp IO360's. You need to be careful because some of those engine's have the fuel injection at the rear of the engine and will not work in an RV unless you buy a new oil sump and new intake components. I was looking at one and called van's and they said it would take some work to convert. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2002
From: Mark Olson <MOLSON1(at)MN.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine
Stein, I appreciate the info you sent regarding parallel vs. slant valve engines. Also, I'll make sure if I decide to go with the 180 HP IO360 that the fuel servo is not at the rear of the engine... I noticed Aerosportpower offers these engines, and for an extra $100 they can install 9.2-1 compression ratio pistons. What effect does this have on the horsepower output, and - more importantly - what octane fuel is now required? I would imagine that the engine will not run on anything less than 100LL. Thanks again! Mark Olson > > > Mark, > Just to let you know something I found out this past week on 180hp > IO360's. You need to be careful because some of those engine's have the > fuel > injection at the rear of the engine and will not work in an RV unless you > buy > a new oil sump and new intake components. I was looking at one and called > van's and they said it would take some work to convert. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Wilks" <patwilks(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 01/15/02
Date: Jan 16, 2002
> ____ > From: Mark Olson <MOLSON1(at)MN.RR.COM> > Subject: RV7-List: Re: Dynacam > > > > The engine's redline is 2000 RPM, and cruise power setting is 1700 RPM. > > What > > > kind of prop can you swing at that speed? > > --Turbo props can turn their props any speed they want. They choose > > to run turbo props at between 1700 and 2,000 for the most part because props > > can be designed to run more efficiently in those RPM ranges. Any prop > > designer can design a prop to require 200 HP in order to turn the prop up to > > 1700 or 2,000 RPM. > > I would think you'd need a pretty big prop to do this, and there would be > ground clearance issues in a small plane. --Because of the slow RPM additional blades can be added without significant loss of efficiency. Also blades can be designed that have a higher forward pitch. Most props for a 200 HP engine have a forward pitch of about 60" - 80". The Dyna-Cam is able to bring a prop up to speed that has a 200" forward pitch. As I understand, the forward pitch is influenced by the twist, camber, cord and other characteristics of the blade. So a 3 - 4 bladed prop with a 68" diameter can be matched to the Dyna-Cam. We are currently interviewing prop designers to get one built. MT Propellers in Germany is also offering an electric pitch prop that will work with the Dyna-Cam. > This engine has been around a long time. I remember Popular Science > in the 70's doing an article on it. I think there were issues about the bearings > and swashplate wear. Perhaps they've been solved by now. I think > that the side forces on the pistons as well as the "twist" on the swashplate > would be interesting engineering problems. --Those issues were solved before the engine was certified. Since the pistons are supported on each end by the cylinder walls, the forces do not cause any problems within the 2,000 hour TBO. Regards, Pat Wilks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2002
Subject: Tank Z brackets
From: Pam Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
Hi I'm working on my second fuel tank. I found a better way of fitting those Z brackets on. The directions tell you to drill 1/8 in. hole etc. place nut plates on. The trouble is that the spar side holes in relationship to the tank baffle are not center of one other. I find that it is better to fit the tank side first. (It's easier later to pop those rivets on). The way that I did that is to place the skin on spar with baffle in place. One hole in each z bracket. Clecoed them on to the baffle. Then I marked them on the bottom of the z brackets (spar side) checked them. They will be off center to the inside but you can get the nut plates on. Place back on and drill all the holes out. Scott Trask IMT P.S. If you like the idea and you use it let me know(If you can understand it). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Blue cellophane covering
Date: Jan 21, 2002
Russ, Scratches are a risk to airworthiness, hence it is best to leave the plastic on till late. My practice is to drill with both plastic on, remove inside plastic, dimple, alodine, using a hot soldering iron, remove a 3/4 inch wide strip along rivet lines, then rivet. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, wings 60% -----Original Message----- From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com [mailto:RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com] Subject: RV7-List: Blue cellophane covering Is is a good idea to leave the blue covering on the skins until painting several years from now or is it better to remove it when the part is completed? Thank you. Russ Clifford Lake Forest, CA getting ready to start rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: stiffeners adhesive
Date: Jan 21, 2002
Wayne, On the recommendation of my local maintenance shop I use a marine product (avaliable form yaghting shops) called Durolac. Its a yellow anti-corrosive cream in a tube. Proseal is too hard to mix and keep the place clean, RTV would do but is almost as gooey as proseal. Durolac is anti-corrosive and also cushions the rivet from its hole, reducing the tendency to produce smoking rivets in later life. I use it on all external rivets. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, wings 60%. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Pedersen [mailto:wayne(at)pedersentransport.com] Subject: RV7-List: stiffeners adhesive getting ready to install the stiffeners in the rudder. It has been recommended by a few to use adhesive i.e.. proseal or RTV sealant to help reduce loosening due to vibrations. What's the consensus - waste of time and $$ or a must do ? Thanks Wayne RV7a empennage in Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: corvair engines
Date: Jan 21, 2002
Wayne, before you take the risk of using an automotive engine in a plane have a look at the 6 litre 200hp engine being developed by Jabiru aircraft. They have over 1000 of their 80 and 120hp engines flying world wide. See www.jabiru.net.au The weight saving and price are much better than the Lycoming alternative. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, wings 60% -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Pedersen [mailto:wayne(at)pedersentransport.com] Subject: RV7-List: corvair engines Starting that daunting task of looking for a engine for the RV 7. Have a local guy here who is building 2 planes with corvair engines. He is offering one to me and with high compression pistons and fuel injections. The price is right and he claims about 180-hp when the mods are completed. Thanks Wayne in Southern Alberta RV7 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Camille Hawthorne" <camillehawthorne(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Z brackets
Date: Jan 21, 2002
This sounds like a much better way to deal with the brackets. I wish I hadn't drilled all the holes for both tanks at the same time! My holes were slightly off when I had the baffle lined up, but the directions say to enlarge the hole in the baffle if this happens. Well, after staring at the prints and directions for quite awhile (I do that a lot!) I came to the conclusion that if the hole in the baffle is enlarged, so must be the hole in the rib! NO BUENO! Wouldn't that be tough to seal? Isn't the fuel supposed to stay on the inside of the tank? I think the plans should say to enlarge the hole on the Z brackets, not the baffle. Anyone else agree? Camille I'm working on my second fuel tank. I found a better way of fitting those Z brackets on. The directions tell you to drill 1/8 in. hole etc. place nut plates on. The trouble is that the spar side holes in relationship to the tank baffle are not center of one other. I find that it is better to fit the tank side first. (It's easier later to pop those rivets on). The way that I did that is to place the skin on spar with baffle in place. One hole in each z bracket. Clecoed them on to the baffle. Then I marked them on the bottom of the z brackets (spar side) checked them. They will be off center to the inside but you can get the nut plates on. Place back on and drill all the holes out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: re:auto engines
Date: Jan 21, 2002
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: corvair engines Wayne, before you take the risk of using an automotive engine in a plane have a look at the 6 litre 200hp engine being developed by Jabiru aircraft. Thanks David for heads up on the Jab. Looked at the site and looking forward to RV6 testing Wayne RV 7a in Southern Alberta Empenage -rudder They have over 1000 of their 80 and 120hp engines flying world wide. See www.jabiru.net.au The weight saving and price are much better than the Lycoming alternative. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, wings 60% -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Pedersen [mailto:wayne(at)pedersentransport.com] Subject: RV7-List: corvair engines Starting that daunting task of looking for a engine for the RV 7. Have a local guy here who is building 2 planes with corvair engines. He is offering one to me and with high compression pistons and fuel injections. The price is right and he claims about 180-hp when the mods are completed. Thanks Wayne in Southern Alberta RV7 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: re:proseal stiffeners
Date: Jan 21, 2002
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: stiffeners adhesive Wayne, On the recommendation of my local maintenance shop I use a marine product (avaliable form yaghting shops) called Durolac. Its a yellow anti-corrosive cream in a tube. Proseal is too hard to mix and keep the place clean, RTV would do but is almost as gooey as proseal. Thanks David for info. Unfortunatly I had allready purchased the proseal and used it on the stiffners. Its been two weeks and the "table' that I used to mix it on is still not as dry as I thought it should be. I have been keeping the garage heated to 15 C but will give it some more time. The Duralac product sounds like it would have worked much "cleaner" Wayne RV 7 a in Southern ALberta Emenage - Rudder Durolac is anti-corrosive and also cushions the rivet from its hole, reducing the tendency to produce smoking rivets in later life. I use it on all external rivets. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, wings 60%. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Pedersen [mailto:wayne(at)pedersentransport.com] Subject: RV7-List: stiffeners adhesive getting ready to install the stiffeners in the rudder. It has been recommended by a few to use adhesive i.e.. proseal or RTV sealant to help reduce loosening due to vibrations. What's the consensus - waste of time and $$ or a must do ? Thanks Wayne RV7a empennage in Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2002
Subject: Re: Tank Z brackets
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 1/21/02 4:32 AM, Camille Hawthorne at camillehawthorne(at)hotmail.com wrote: > > > > This sounds like a much better way to deal with the brackets. I wish I > hadn't drilled all the holes for both tanks at the same time! My holes were > slightly off when I had the baffle lined up, but the directions say to enlarge > the hole in the baffle if this happens. Well, after staring at the prints and > directions for quite awhile (I do that a lot!) I came to the conclusion that > if the hole in the baffle is enlarged, so must be the hole in the rib! NO > BUENO! Wouldn't that be tough to seal? Isn't the fuel supposed to stay on the > inside of the tank? I think the plans should say to enlarge the hole on the Z > brackets, not the baffle. Anyone else agree? > Camille > Hi Camille and List The first tank I ended up making a few extra holes because of the those Z brackets but no leaks. I did have a leak around a rivet that holds the clip for the flange of the gas cap. The other tank I placed the clip on just on the gas cap flange independent from the skin. The rivet head would be under the skin. Camille, you should be ok with that pro-seal. It works nice. In some places I place it inside and out. If you didn't place the rivets in yet I would push a little pro-seal in the hole in front of the rivet. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2002
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)home.com>
Subject: Tank access plate screws
> I had an EAA Tech Counselor inspection done this weekend by Gary Sobek. One thing he recommended was not using Van's phillips head screws in the fuel tank access cover, but rather getting some Allen head (ie., hex key) 8-32 half inch machine screws for that cover. Reason is that after you have mounted the wings, there is only about 3 inches of space to get a tool in there to remove those screws, and ProSealed phillips head screws will likely strip out when you try to turn them from the side without much leverage. I swapped out the screws this evening with Allen head screws generously dabbed with ProSeal. Looks like it will work well, as a standard Allen wrench with a 90 degree bend will get a good bite on those screw heads. He also recommended not using Van's cork gasket and just Prosealing the cover on. I was just about to close up the right tank so I went ahead and did this, putting a generous coating on both cover plate and the rib surface that holds the platenuts. (Scuff with emery cloth and MEK clean to get a good bonding with ProSeal.) Since the left tank already had the cork gasket ProSealed in, I just changed the screws on that one. Now I have a comparison setup; will let the list know which one leaks first :-(. Or maybe never :-). Something to consider... -Dan Masys -7A wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2002
Subject: Landing Lights
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
Hi What are you guys doing for a back ground(color of paint if any) in the wing behind the landing light? I was thinking of using chrome paint it should brighten the light a little. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2002
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Lights
Scott Trask wrote: > > Hi > What are you guys doing for a back ground(color of paint if any) in the > wing behind the landing light? I was thinking of using chrome paint it > should brighten the light a little. > Scott Trask IMT I used Rustoleum white appliance epoxy to paint the landing light bracket and the forward inside parts of the wing bay. Makes a great high gloss white finish (but don't put it on over primer; it will 'pull' most primers and wrinkle). If you compare luminence I think white beats chrome paint, unless you can achieve a mirror finish (and then it is not clear that the mirrors will be sending the reflected light where you want it to go). -Dan Masys -7A wings (done except for autopilot servo wiring and bottom skins) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: proseal
I am in the middle of the tank sealing experience I thought I would offer some items that might help someone not there yet as suggested in the instructions, three work sessions I didn't have that must time for each I have made 3 sessions thus far and have about half of it complete It took me about 3 hrs to install the stiffeners and filler and drain hole Session # 2 was the two end ribs with nose stiffeners and corner stiffeners and inverted flop tube Session # 3 I thought would get all the interior ribs but I was mistaken. I got in two in about 2.5 hours. I am thinking 5 work sessions will get it done. Seems that about 1.5 or 2 ounces is enough proseal to mix at one time I had a set of digital postal scales. That works pretty good. I used one batch for each of the two ribs tonight. A little MEK stirred into the putty makes it more manageable. I used the popsickle stick and a acid brush with the bristles cut to half of their length to push the goo into the right places I had countersunk the skin rather than dimple. Seems that I couldn't get the dimples deep enough on the vert stab which is also .032 sheet. it is still difficult to get the depression deep enough. I believe the proseal holds the rivs out a little. I now think the TANK dies from the tool man is the correct choice. TANK dies are several thousandths deeper. I believe the dimples would help locate the ribs to the skin a little better when you have got every thing buttered with goo This may be worth what it cost you, but these are my experiences so far. cary rhodes, middle of wings and fuse just arrived ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2002
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: proseal
cary rhodes wrote: > > I am in the middle of the tank sealing experience > > > Session # 2 was the two end ribs with nose stiffeners > and corner stiffeners and inverted flop tube Just be aware that if you put the end ribs in before the inner ribs, you're going to have an interesting time running the tank vent line. Better to either start with the outboard end and work towards the inner rib, or just do the inner ribs and save the most inboard and outboard ones for later, after the tank vent is installed. Even more important if you have the capacitance fuel senders, since you're going to have to do some wiring and screw + spacer assembly on the 2nd rib in from both directions. -Dan Masys -7A wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2002
Subject: Re: Landing Lights
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 1/25/02 9:01 PM, Dan Masys at dmasys(at)home.com wrote: > > Scott Trask wrote: > >> >> Hi >> What are you guys doing for a back ground(color of paint if any) in the >> wing behind the landing light? I was thinking of using chrome paint it >> should brighten the light a little. >> Scott Trask IMT > > I used Rustoleum white appliance epoxy to paint the landing light bracket and > the forward inside parts of the wing bay. Makes a great high gloss white > finish (but don't put it on over primer; it will 'pull' most primers and > wrinkle). If you compare luminence I think white beats chrome paint, unless > you can achieve a mirror finish (and then it is not clear that the mirrors > will be sending the reflected light where you want it to go). > > -Dan Masys > -7A wings (done except for autopilot servo wiring and bottom skins) > > > > Hi Dan Thanks for the responds, I would have to agree. I was thinking white but a good young salesman sole me the chrome paint. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2002
From: John Reuterskiold <mtnflyr(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Bag parts list
Since I have gotten tired of trying to figure out which bag a particular part is in I have created a MS Access database of the bags and the parts within them. If any of you have Access and would be interested I will be glad to share. It will currently produce 3 reports, 1)the bag number and Van's short description, 2)list of bags in ascending order and the parts in them (very similar to what Van's sends except in numerical order, 3)parts in ascending part number order and the bag it is in. And to answer the question, yes I have excess time on my hands while on the road (it is just to hard to take the wings with you). John Reuterskiold QB wings and fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2002
From: Don Stewart <siinc(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Bag parts list
Yup, there is a lot of interest here in ANY kind of inventory system. Thanks. My email address is siinc(at)gwi.net May I suggest that you upload your Access db file to the photos/files section (http://www.matronics.com/photoshare) so that anyone who is interested can download the files for themselves? Again, Thanks. Don Stewart John Reuterskiold wrote: > > > Since I have gotten tired of trying to figure out which bag a particular > part is in I have created a MS Access database of the bags and the parts > within them. If any of you have Access and would be interested I will > be glad to share. It will currently produce 3 reports, 1)the bag number > and Van's short description, 2)list of bags in ascending order and the > parts in them (very similar to what Van's sends except in numerical > order, 3)parts in ascending part number order and the bag it is in. > > And to answer the question, yes I have excess time on my hands while on > the road (it is just to hard to take the wings with you). > > John Reuterskiold > QB wings and fuselage > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: RV Finder (web tool)
Date: Feb 04, 2002
Ok, it was only a matter of time before I broke down and built this: http://www.rvproject.com:8000/rvfinder.jsp Enter your zip code, select a radius, and you can find all the registered RVs of various types that are located nearby. Enjoy! )_( Dan dan(at)rvproject.com http://www.rvproject.com:8000 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John.Morrissey(at)csiro.au
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Finder (web tool)
Date: Feb 06, 2002
Hi Dan, So when's the international version coming out? Ya never know some of you yanks might want to come done and visit some of us Aussies on day!! Looks cool! John -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] rv7-list(at)matronics.com; SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV-List: RV Finder (web tool) --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Ok, it was only a matter of time before I broke down and built this: http://www.rvproject.com:8000/rvfinder.jsp Enter your zip code, select a radius, and you can find all the registered RVs of various types that are located nearby. Enjoy! )_( Dan dan(at)rvproject.com http://www.rvproject.com:8000 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: Re: RV Finder (web tool)
Date: Feb 05, 2002
> what about those of us who registered our planes with a space in between the > V and the number... like "RV 6". Will you recognize those as well as the > ones registered with no space or a dash? A lot of people have been asking about different patterns of model numbers. If there are any uber-geeks out there (I'm not pointing fingers) who might want to help enhance this tools ability to recognize RV model number patterns, here's the regular expression I'm using: .*RV[-[:space:]]?[[:digit:]]+(A)?.* It now supports missing dashes, using a space instead of a dash, etc. If anybody has suggestions on how to improve that, just let me know. )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Reynolds" <stephen.j.reynolds(at)talk21.com>
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: RV Finder (web tool)
Date: Feb 05, 2002
the French RV site has a map of France with all the builders located on it. pretty useful http://www.welcome.to/RV-6 ----- Original Message ----- From: <John.Morrissey(at)csiro.au> ; Subject: RV7-List: RE: RV-List: RV Finder (web tool) > > Hi Dan, > > So when's the international version coming out? Ya never know some of you yanks might want to come done and visit some of us Aussies on day!! > > Looks cool! > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; > rv7-list(at)matronics.com; SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: RV Finder (web tool) > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > Ok, it was only a matter of time before I broke down and built this: > > http://www.rvproject.com:8000/rvfinder.jsp > > Enter your zip code, select a radius, and you can find all the registered > RVs of various types that are located nearby. > > Enjoy! > > )_( Dan > dan(at)rvproject.com > http://www.rvproject.com:8000 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: More speed, more features
Date: Feb 05, 2002
Unfortunately I'm not talking about an RV... But I am talking about the RV finder web tool. I made some major speed enhancements and it now supports "over the border" queries. Basically you're no longer tied to just the state you entered. It'll pull in RVs from any state, sorted by distance. So, for example, if you do a query for "Reno, NV", you get lots of nearby California RVs as well. http://www.rvproject.com:8000/rvfinder.jsp Still not international, but one thing at a time. )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Preston" <dprestonsr1(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Date: Feb 07, 2002
Any body know of a 6, 7 or 8 with 540 engine? Appreciate any info on such a critter. Thanks, Doug Preston RV-6A - N1610P bought used & flying RV-7A starting fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2002
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com>
Subject: Re: e: RV7-List:
try Van's....also I heard that there is a couple in eugene, or, one is flying..the other is building...of course there's the rocket...but it's beefed up just to take the stress... Doug Preston wrote: > > Any body know of a 6, 7 or 8 with 540 engine? > Appreciate any info on such a critter. > Thanks, > > Doug Preston > RV-6A - N1610P bought used & flying > RV-7A starting fuselage. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vern W." <vernw(at)pdq.net>
Subject: Re: Bag parts list
Date: Feb 08, 2002
Hi John, I do have MS Access and would really like to see the inventory list you put together. Thanks, Vern Houston, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Reuterskiold" <mtnflyr(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RV7-List: Bag parts list > > Since I have gotten tired of trying to figure out which bag a particular > part is in I have created a MS Access database of the bags and the parts > within them. If any of you have Access and would be interested I will > be glad to share. It will currently produce 3 reports, 1)the bag number > and Van's short description, 2)list of bags in ascending order and the > parts in them (very similar to what Van's sends except in numerical > order, 3)parts in ascending part number order and the bag it is in. > > And to answer the question, yes I have excess time on my hands while on > the road (it is just to hard to take the wings with you). > > John Reuterskiold > QB wings and fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2002
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-4 Project For Sale...
Listers, I've decided I want an RV-7 and am selling my RV-4 Airframe Project. Below are two URLs with tons of pictures of the project. Please note that *only* the items listed specifically below are being sold. The avionics, engine, prop, etc. shown in the pictures will be kept for my next project. http://www.matronics.com/mattsrv4/ http://www.matronics.com/mattsrv4/MiscPictures/ I would prefer not split this stuff up and will sell it as a package deal only. Wings and tanks are 95% done and are wired for Whelen Strobes and position lights. Fin, Rudder, Horz Stab are complete. Elevators are 50% complete. Fuselage is about 80% complete with canopy completely installed. Fuselage is on the gear, but little work FWF has been done. The cutout in the FW for the prop governor has been started. Workmanship is good throughout the kit. Here is a list of the items included in the sale: Van's RV-4 Kit (Emp/Wing/Fuse/Finish) Vetterman Exhaust (Crossover) Engine Baffle Kit Filtered Air Box 2 Lever Quadrants F&R Seat Belts Molded Stick Grips Electric Elevator Trim Kit Electric Aileron Trim Kit Electric Flap Kit Fuel Tank Flop Tubes L&R Fuel Selector Valve Rear Seat Rudder Pedals Full Swivel Tailwheel Assy Heat Selector Bob Olds Landing Lights L&R Tires & Tubes Tailwheel Fairing Fiberglass Gear Fairings Temperfoam Front and Rear Seats w/ Upholstery New Light Weight Prepreg Cowling for CS O360 This list of items represents an investment of over $17,000. I will sell the whole thing for $11,000 firm. I can accept M/C or Visa for an additional 4% of the sale amount. I will crate the entire kit as listed above for shipment anywhere in the continental US for an additional $600. Freight charges will be COD via the carrier of your choice. For further information, please contact me via email at dralle(at)matronics.com Matt Dralle Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: AKZO primer shelf life?
Date: Feb 14, 2002
I'm not asking what primer to use. 8 ) But I would like some advice on the shelf life of primers...specifically the AKZO 2-part epoxy primer. Bought it in August of 2001. Used it nearly every day until October. Then, after the emp was finished it's been sitting on my shelf since then. About to order my wings (finally!) and I'm wondering: Will AKZO be usable after 4-6 months of sitting idle on a shelf? I assume that's no problem as long as I thoroughly shake/stir (shaken, not stirred...) up the main part before mixing? )_( Dan dan(at)rvproject.com http://www.rvproject.com:8000 N747DC RV-7 wings soon N201DD Mooney 201 (FINALLY SOLD!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Belated List of Contributors #2...
Dear Listers, I'd like to apologize for the delay in posting the 2001 List of Contributors Number 2, as well as getting behind in the List Photo Shares. Here's my sad story... Over the Christmas holidays, I was working out in the shop on a rotating drum sander. I was sanding out the woofer hole in a speaker enclosure and, long story short, the part got away from me and started spinning like a Hula hoop on the drum. Rather than just turning the machine off like I should have done, I tried to grab the part and in the process badly broke the ring fingers on *both* my right and left hands!! I had to go in for surgery on the left hand because of the joint damage and was stuck in a thing called an "external fixator" for almost 4 weeks. The right hand has healed up well, but the left one is very stiff and I'm currently only getting about 70 degrees of bend. The doctor says that I will get 80-90% of the moment back with a great deal of therapy and I'm going to hold them to that... The moral of the story is that even a sander can be a dangerous tool. I had been working with a table saw, drill press, scroll saw, and high power routers all day long and afforded them all the respect they deserved. But with the sander, I never even thought about how things could go bad. It just didn't seem like a dangerous tool. Be careful out there in the shop. In a moment you can hurt yourself; hurt yourself in such a way that you will have to live with the damage the rest of your life. Nothing is worth that. I'm finally back working on the computer and getting back to email and other stuff. Later today I will be processing the mound of Photo Shares that have backed up while I was out. I also just finished up the 2001 List Contributions and have included the List Number 2 below. I want to thank everyone that has so generously contributed to the List this past year! It is your Contributions that make these Lists possible. I understand that the Van's Videos from the Builder's Bookstore should be shipping very soon if not already, and the discount coupons from Brown Tools should already have arrived. Thanks again to Andy Gold and Michael Brown for their generous support of the Lists this year with these giveaways! Oh, and now that my fingers are working pretty well again, I've decided to go ahead and finish my RV-4!! I had a LOT of guilt over wanting to sell it... :-) Happy Building and Flying! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Alexander, Don Alexander, George Andrews, Jim Anonymous Blake, James Bowman, John Buryl, Hill Butler, Sherman Cantrell, Jimmy DeRuiter, Marcel Deffner, David Graumlich, Tom Griffin, Randy Harbour, Keith Hunt, Robin Jannon, Terence Johnson, Jackie Kahn, Steve Labhart, Norm Laird, David Larson, Joe Licking, Larry Maynard, Brad Navratil, Richard Noonan, Thomas Petersen, Paul Reed, Gary Rogers, Ken Salter, Phillip Schmit, John Schultz, David Sheffield, Ray Smith, Edmond Staley, Dick Utterback, Tom Uvanni, Bruce Williams, Henry Wilson, Robert Woodward, Don Worthington, Victor Zirges, Malcom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2002
Subject: [ Bob Haan ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bob Haan Subject: New WigWag II http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bhaan@easystreet.com.02.17.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2002
Subject: [ John Reuterskiold ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: John Reuterskiold Subject: RV7 Bag-Parts Database http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mtnflyr@attglobal.net.02.17.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2002
Subject: [ JT Garner ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: JT Garner Subject: Landing Light Hole http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jtgarner@shentel.net.02.17.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ewinne(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2002
Subject: The engine debate
This is for people who: 1) want to reopen the auto vs Lycoming engine debate, or 2) have a bit of a sense of humor: This weekend on Car-Talk (you know, the National Public Radio program) The guys take a phone call from me regarding the subaru engine in a home built aircraft. Needless to say, they had a lot of fun with the topic, and were NO help at all! For some reason, they seemed to be of the impression that those who build aircraft in their garages are less than normal. Listen in. We recorded the segment on Wednesday, and they don't guarantee it'll get on (they "mix and match" the calls to get the best mix of humor and time limit potential) but they are already asking me for pix to post on their web site. Ed Winne RV 9A Palmyra PA wings/QB fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Okrent3209(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 2002
Subject: autoengine debate
I'm interested in exploring the benefits and drawbacks of a Mazda RX7 engine in an RV7a. The EAA article this month seemed to indicate that this was a reasonable alternative. Since I am not really interested in a truly "experimental" engine, I would be interested to know the costs and issues involved in purchasing a firewall forward Wankel kit. What kind of prop and speed reducer would the RV7a need? Or is one of the new diesels a better choice? Mike Okrent Empennage 90%, getting ready to order the wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Subject: Fuel Tank
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
Hi I'm about done with my wings! I found an easy way to test for leaks. I started with a low pressure gauge and placed about 1 1/2 lbs. in tank. Let it stand for a day and check the pressure gauge and spray soap on it if you need to locate a leak. I found that you can easily push that much pressure in with your lungs. So, one can place two rubber or plastic hoses over the two fittings, pinch them off after blowing in tank. Then spray down with soap and water. I had a leak in the electrical fitting in the center. I never would had guessed that there would be a leak there. I had accidentally sprayed soap in it and bubbles quickly appeared. I had placed heat shrink over the wire to the fitting. I didn't put enough pro seal up the top edge of the heat shrink around the wire. It was easily repaired. Also I found something that works well around the cork gasket other than pro seal. It's called Aviation Form-A-Gasket Sealant Liquid (Item# 80019). This is a gas resistant substance made by Permatex. I placed it on the tank side (between the cork and the tank). I did not put any between the lid and the cork. I didn't have any leaks in that area. Do you think I should place it on both sides? Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: autopilot questions
Date: Mar 13, 2002
I've got a few questions for people who have installed autopilots in their RVs (I searched the archives and didn't quite find what I was looking for): 1) How much weight does your typical autopilot add? Assume both pitch and roll. 2) How level does the autopilot really hold an RV...does it hunt like crazy (too sensitive)? 3) If a builder decided to install an autopilot after the aircraft was already complete (a complete RV...that's an oxymoron) and flying, how trivial or impossible would that be? You can probably see what I'm getting at... (a) I don't want to weigh my RV down, (b) I don't want to bother unless it'll hold it rock steady, and (c) I'd rather wait to see what my empty weight turns out to be. I'll take any and all data points... )_( Dan http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian_meier" <brian.c.meier(at)accenture.com> Subject: [RV7and7A] S-Tec Autopilot Roll Servo Mounting Pictures > Group, > > I have loaded some pictures of my planned mounting for the S-Tec > Autopilot Roll Servo in my wing. I purchased the following from A/C > Spruce: S-Tec System 30 Autopilot for about $5500 > > (1)Roll Servo 0106-9-R4 > (1)Pitch Servo 0108-10-P5 > (1)Hardware Kit about $600 > > The Hardware Kit is not normally quoted, that's why the price is > about $600 higher than what I thought. But when I finish > installation and purchase the Turn Coordn, Programmer & Transducer > and give S-Tec the lenght of wire runs I need, they will custom fab a > wiring harness. > > Look at the installation pictures under the FILES...then N975BM > Folder...then S-Tec Autopilot Installation Folder. > > Let me know what you guys think. I'm trying to mount the servo to > the spar in the outermost bay. There are 2 lightning holes in the > spar. The hole on the inboard side is the perfect size to fit the > back side of the servo. Using one of the brackets supplied, I > clamped it in position to test it out. I also used a dowel rod to > simulate a pushrod. I need to make sure that attaching the dowel rod > to the aileron bracket where the control push tube attaches is OK. > So far it looks as if I can still get full deflection of the aileron > with the dowel rod connected to the roll servo. > > > Good luck and keep building. > > Brian Meier > N975BM (reserved) > > > Access Your PC from Anywhere > It's Easy. It's Fun. - Free Download. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/kmECdA/7XkDAA/DIxGAA/1yWplB/TM > > > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing > www.vansaircraft.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner(at)wans.net>
Subject: RV-4 Project FOR SALE
Date: Mar 15, 2002
My fellow RVators, RV-4 Tail & Wing Kits FOR SALE Early 1980's Kit, Serial number is in the two digits. A VIRGIN (i.e. nearly untouched). Today's cost from Vans would be over $5400 for the same Kit (-with predrilled parts). This is a great opportunity to get started on a Van's RV-4, while at the same time saving some serious (engine) money over buying new! Please contact me OFF LIST if you are interested, and then make me a reasonable offer for the two Kits! Sincerely, Konrad Werner Albuquerque, NM. Connywerner(at)wans.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: fuel tank
I have finished my second tank and unlike the first this one leaks I must have been too skimpy with the black pudding trying to make the quart of goo enough for both tanks The 3 leaks I have are around the rivit heads in the middle portion of the tank ie - not on the baffle plate - the easy ones to get to to replace Has anyone had experience with the slosh sealer?? Does anyone have alternate repair advice I am afraid if I pull the baffle off of the back it will totally wreck the tank Cary Rhodes 75% wings Fuse in waiting http://sports.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2002
Subject: Re: fuel tank
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 3/18/02 12:47 PM, cary rhodes at rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > I have finished my second tank and unlike the first > this one leaks > > I must have been too skimpy with the black pudding > trying to make the quart of goo enough for both tanks > > The 3 leaks I have are around the rivit heads in the > middle portion of the tank > > ie - not on the baffle plate - the easy ones to get to > to replace > > Has anyone had experience with the slosh sealer?? > > Does anyone have alternate repair advice > > I am afraid if I pull the baffle off of the back it > will totally wreck the tank > > > Cary Rhodes > 75% wings > Fuse in waiting > > http://sports.yahoo.com/ > > > > Hi Cary, My best suggestion to you is contact Van's. They are very helpful in cases like this. Maybe you could place pro-seal on the outside and put a shop vac over the filling cap, creating a vacuum. Leave it on long enough and it will suck the pro-seal or whatever you are using into the leaking area. Let is set up. Or drill out the leaking rivets and replace with blind rivets, adding more of whatever you are using on the blind rivets to seal. That's all I have to offer. Hope it works for you. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: Mar 18, 2002
cut a round hole in the baffle in the section that leaks repair the leak make a round plate to cover the new inspection hole seal and rivet it on ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2002
From: Nouj <nouj(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV7-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 03/18/02
Dan' Why dont you shop around at the banks you will probably get a better deal anyway, that is certainly the case in UK. You've got to get that kit I am following you website, I would be lost without you mate! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2002
From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Ban for Life!!!!
March 19, 2002 Hello: Im building an RV-7A QB in Maine. I succeeded in getting myself ban for life from Doug Reeves Vansaircraft.NET builders chat group for chatting too much & off the topic postings. Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Not only am I ban for life from posting but I cannot even read the archives as non-members are able to do on this matronics site. Then the bulk of the members on the site voted in a poll for a 30-60 day ban for members who needed to be disciplined and yet I get ban for life whats up with that? I even offered to pay a fine of $100 as a donation to the site and got rejected by the moderator. None of the members dare speak out since they too might get ban. I disagree totally with a life ban thats absolutely ridiculous!! I will be the first to admit that Im far from perfect and a few 30-day bans now and then would have been most sufficient. Anyway Im building an RV-7A QB my engine showed up today Im using an O-360 180 HP with a 200 HP forward facing sump and Lycon.com induction tubes which will allow me to use the sleek vans cowl which does not have the lower air scoop. My engine is also fuel injected. The unknown at this point is how the exhaust will work out. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Vetterman said the heating system may be an issue. Here in Maine I want HOT HEAT in the winter. Im working with an exhaust guy in CA who says he sees no problems with building a 4-into-1 exhaust for my RV. I really want the 4-into-1 since Im told it will boost the HP as much as 20 HP does anyone know if this is true?? Ive also gone with an engine mount which is a combo 7 & 7A mount this will allow me to put this RV on floats at a later date. Im discovering the battery box for the RV-7A will not fit so I think I may have to use the battery box normally used on the RV-7. If any of you are planning to put your RV on floats, Id love to have your e-mail address and keep in touch - my e-mail is cdowjr(at)yahoo.com. As far as floats are concerned www.full-lotus.com seems to have a nice set floats run about $6,500 for the RV-7. Well anyway I hope you all will be more patient with me than the other group. I think there is some good in every RV owner/builder - sometimes it just takes some time to find it and that other group just kicked out a nice guy a Maine RV-7A QB Builder for LIFE Whats up with that!!! Control freek!! - I truly don't get it!! Have a great day. Cliff Dow, Jr. Cdowjr(at)yahoo.com Maine RV-7A QB Builder (N-327CD) --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2002
From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Carbon Monoxide Detectors
I just got the new panel mount model 352 carbon monoxide detector from www.coguardian.com Nice unit! Its pretty compact. Just recently available. Cliff Dow, Jr. Cdowjr(at)yahoo.com Maine RV-7A QB Builder. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Exhaust (was Ban for Life!!!!)
Date: Mar 19, 2002
Hi Cliff, I've yet to see any simple "bolt on" item that will increase ouptup by 20 h.p. I'd be leery of somebody claiming that much. You COULD get a slight performance increase from a 4-1 exhaust, but exhaust systems are funny, and more of an art than a science. I would also shy away from anyone who has not built a bunch of exhaust systems for an RV. If you check the archives there are a multitude of stories about people "re-inventing the wheel" when it comes to exhaust. That being said, I've seen several exhaust systems on RV's, and can unequivocally say the Larry Vetterman's are probably the best quality, and fit like a glove out of the box. He has literally build hundreds of sets, and the workmanship is outstanding. IMHO, The best way to get increased horsepower out of these things is definately electronic ignition, and the best way to go fast is a clean, light airframe. That 20 extra horse will get you less speed than a nice, clean plane! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6, Minneapolis March 19, 2002 Hello: The unknown at this point is how the exhaust will work out. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Vetterman said the heating system may be an issue. Here in Maine I want HOT HEAT in the winter. Im working with an exhaust guy in CA who says he sees no problems with building a 4-into-1 exhaust for my RV. I really want the 4-into-1 since Im told it will boost the HP as much as 20 HP does anyone know if this is true?? Have a great day. Cliff Dow, Jr. Cdowjr(at)yahoo.com Maine RV-7A QB Builder (N-327CD) --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky pilot" <vapilot1(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2002
Hello Everybody; I am a new RV-7A builder who has just started the empennage kit. I wanted to say "Hi" to everybody out there. I hope you all don't mind if I lurk around and try to pick up building hints or ask a question or two when I am puzzled during construction. I figure there is a great wealth of knowledge on this list and Im sure I could benefit from those of you who have completed construction or are further along in the building process. I live in Woodbridge, VA and I work for the FAA (GASP!!) as a program manager in Airways Facilities. I currently fly a Tri-Pacer and decided to build an RV because I wanted something that cruises faster (much) than 100mph. I also ride a Kawasaki Vulcan Classic (Harley clone), and have an old Jaguar convertible that I am just completing a restoration on. Anyway, a big "hello" to all of you -- now back to the shop for another building session.... Skip Bona vapilot1(at)hotmail.com Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2002
From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Need any drill Bits???
Here is a site for any drill bits you might need - I just ordered some 2 1/4 & 3 1/8th for my instrument panel - carbide tip (grit style) bits - supposed to work nice - no walking around like some regular holesaws - and they fit regular Makita arbors. Also, on my QB wings I needed to run holes under the skins for wires - needed a 4 foot drill bit and found the ones at the local electrical shop worked fine - even thought they were for wood (about $35). http://www.advantage-drillbits.com/drilltype.html Cliff Dow, Jr. cdowjr(at)yahoo.com Maine RV-7A QB Builder (N327CD) --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 2002
Subject: Welcome Cliff.... if....
Dear Cliff... You should realize that lots of RV builders like myself are members of more than one list, so are fully aware of the problems that got you bounced from Doug's list. If I remember correctly, you were only bounced after multiple warnings, so have only yourself to blame. I think you have a lot to contribute to this list and your enthusiasm for RV's is unquestioned. And as long as you stay on subject, which is the furtherance of the enjoyment we all share with our projects, I have little doubt you will be welcomed by all. Let's avoid the subjects that offended many on Doug's list. Hope you take this in the constructive spirit it was meant, and best to you. Sincerely, Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR RV6a 50% done, 90% to go.... In a message dated 3/19/02 11:54:38 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << Im building an RV-7A QB in Maine. I succeeded in getting myself ban for life from Doug Reeves Vansaircraft.NET builders chat group for chatting too much & off the topic postings. Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Not only am I ban for life from posting but I cannot even read the archives as non-members are able to do on this matronics site. >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2002
From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome Cliff.... if....
Don't get smart and bossy with me Jerry or i'll have to slap you silly!!!! not much when it comes to being told what do my friend. I'm a pround member of the Matronics list and on a mission to harrass that list that ban me -ban me for freaking life - what's up with that!!!!! - that little prick son of a bitch dirt bag sum sucking jerk face maget scum sucking ying yang!!!!!!!!! Control Freak!!! cliff dow jr cdowjr(at)yahoo.com PS Oh yah did I call you a control freak!!!!!!!!! yah doug - you!!!!!!!!! --- Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > Dear Cliff... > > You should realize that lots of RV builders like > myself are members of more > than one list, so are fully aware of the problems > that got you bounced from > Doug's list. If I remember correctly, you were only > bounced after multiple > warnings, so have only yourself to blame. I think > you have a lot to > contribute to this list and your enthusiasm for RV's > is unquestioned. And as > long as you stay on subject, which is the > furtherance of the enjoyment we all > share with our projects, I have little doubt you > will be welcomed by all. > Let's avoid the subjects that offended many on > Doug's list. Hope you take > this in the constructive spirit it was meant, and > best to you. > > Sincerely, > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > RV6a 50% done, 90% to go.... > > In a message dated 3/19/02 11:54:38 PM, > rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > << Im building an RV-7A QB in Maine. I succeeded in > getting myself ban for > life from Doug Reeves Vansaircraft.NET builders chat > group for chatting too > much & off the topic postings. Whatever happened to > freedom of speech? Not > only am I ban for life from posting but I cannot > even read the archives as > non-members are able to do on this matronics site. > >> > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Faris" <kf64358(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Welcome Cliff.... if....
Date: Mar 20, 2002
You know Cliff, I commented to you once on an instrument issue and you replied back with a smart-ass answer. Wise up or get banned everywhere. Kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Dow" <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Welcome Cliff.... if.... > > Don't get smart and bossy with me Jerry or i'll have > to slap you silly!!!! > not much when it comes to being told what do my > friend. > I'm a pround member of the Matronics list and on a > mission to harrass that list that ban me -ban me for > freaking life - what's up with that!!!!! - that little > prick son of a bitch dirt bag sum sucking jerk face > maget scum sucking ying yang!!!!!!!!! Control Freak!!! > cliff dow jr > cdowjr(at)yahoo.com > PS Oh yah did I call you a control freak!!!!!!!!! yah > doug - you!!!!!!!!! > > > --- Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > Dear Cliff... > > > > You should realize that lots of RV builders like > > myself are members of more > > than one list, so are fully aware of the problems > > that got you bounced from > > Doug's list. If I remember correctly, you were only > > bounced after multiple > > warnings, so have only yourself to blame. I think > > you have a lot to > > contribute to this list and your enthusiasm for RV's > > is unquestioned. And as > > long as you stay on subject, which is the > > furtherance of the enjoyment we all > > share with our projects, I have little doubt you > > will be welcomed by all. > > Let's avoid the subjects that offended many on > > Doug's list. Hope you take > > this in the constructive spirit it was meant, and > > best to you. > > > > Sincerely, > > Jerry Cochran > > Wilsonville, OR > > RV6a 50% done, 90% to go.... > > > > In a message dated 3/19/02 11:54:38 PM, > > rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > > > << Im building an RV-7A QB in Maine. I succeeded in > > getting myself ban for > > life from Doug Reeves Vansaircraft.NET builders chat > > group for chatting too > > much & off the topic postings. Whatever happened to > > freedom of speech? Not > > only am I ban for life from posting but I cannot > > even read the archives as > > non-members are able to do on this matronics site. > > >> > > > > > > > > Contributions of > > any other form > > > > latest messages. > > other List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/search > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner(at)wans.net>
Subject: Re: Welcome Cliff.... if....
Date: Mar 20, 2002
A message to this Cliff Dow Jr., I DO NOT (as probably everyone else on this list) care about your self induced problems with Doug Reeves very fine site, nor do I want to hear about your hatred!! Where did you come from?? Get yourself to a psychiatrist & deal with the underlying problem! One more thing: DO NEVER USE YOUR FOUL LANGUAGE ON THIS LIST AGAIN, AS IT IS OFFENSIVE TO EVERYONE !! For your own sake, I wish you well!! Konrad Werner > > Don't get smart and bossy with me Jerry or i'll have > to slap you silly!!!! > not much when it comes to being told what do my > friend. > I'm a pround member of the Matronics list and on a > mission to harrass that list that ban me -ban me for > freaking life - what's up with that!!!!! - that little > prick son of a bitch dirt bag sum sucking jerk face > maget scum sucking ying yang!!!!!!!!! Control Freak!!! > cliff dow jr > cdowjr(at)yahoo.com > PS Oh yah did I call you a control freak!!!!!!!!! yah > doug - you!!!!!!!!! > > > --- Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > Dear Cliff... > > > > You should realize that lots of RV builders like > > myself are members of more > > than one list, so are fully aware of the problems > > that got you bounced from > > Doug's list. If I remember correctly, you were only > > bounced after multiple > > warnings, so have only yourself to blame. I think > > you have a lot to > > contribute to this list and your enthusiasm for RV's > > is unquestioned. And as > > long as you stay on subject, which is the > > furtherance of the enjoyment we all > > share with our projects, I have little doubt you > > will be welcomed by all. > > Let's avoid the subjects that offended many on > > Doug's list. Hope you take > > this in the constructive spirit it was meant, and > > best to you. > > > > Sincerely, > > Jerry Cochran > > Wilsonville, OR > > RV6a 50% done, 90% to go.... > > > > In a message dated 3/19/02 11:54:38 PM, > > rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > > > << Im building an RV-7A QB in Maine. I succeeded in > > getting myself ban for > > life from Doug Reeves Vansaircraft.NET builders chat > > group for chatting too > > much & off the topic postings. Whatever happened to > > freedom of speech? Not > > only am I ban for life from posting but I cannot > > even read the archives as > > non-members are able to do on this matronics site. > > >> > > > > > > > > Contributions of > > any other form > > > > latest messages. > > other List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/search > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Welcome Cliff.TAKE IT OFFLINE.
Date: Mar 20, 2002
Good Lord Cliff, I'm sure you have a great deal to add to a list, but stuff like the comments below belong offline. Please DO NOT the Matronics "RV List" as a sounding board for your personal problems with another list or people. Simply take it offline. I have nothing against you, and wish it to stay that way. I'm just trying to keep you out of trouble early on. Happy Building, Stein Bruch -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford Dow Subject: Re: RV7-List: Welcome Cliff.... if.... Don't get smart and bossy with me Jerry or i'll have to slap you silly!!!! not much when it comes to being told what do my friend. I'm a pround member of the Matronics list and on a mission to harrass that list that ban me -ban me for freaking life - what's up with that!!!!! - that little prick son of a bitch dirt bag sum sucking jerk face maget scum sucking ying yang!!!!!!!!! Control Freak!!! cliff dow jr cdowjr(at)yahoo.com PS Oh yah did I call you a control freak!!!!!!!!! yah doug - you!!!!!!!!! --- Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > Dear Cliff... > > You should realize that lots of RV builders like > myself are members of more > than one list, so are fully aware of the problems > that got you bounced from > Doug's list. If I remember correctly, you were only > bounced after multiple > warnings, so have only yourself to blame. I think > you have a lot to > contribute to this list and your enthusiasm for RV's > is unquestioned. And as > long as you stay on subject, which is the > furtherance of the enjoyment we all > share with our projects, I have little doubt you > will be welcomed by all. > Let's avoid the subjects that offended many on > Doug's list. Hope you take > this in the constructive spirit it was meant, and > best to you. > > Sincerely, > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > RV6a 50% done, 90% to go.... > > In a message dated 3/19/02 11:54:38 PM, > rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > << Im building an RV-7A QB in Maine. I succeeded in > getting myself ban for > life from Doug Reeves Vansaircraft.NET builders chat > group for chatting too > much & off the topic postings. Whatever happened to > freedom of speech? Not > only am I ban for life from posting but I cannot > even read the archives as > non-members are able to do on this matronics site. > >> > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 2002
Subject: It wasn't me!!!!!!
Hey fellow builders, I am NOT the one who got booted off one of the RV Lists. I had about 6 hits on my computer condemning me for shooting my mouth off. Wrong person though. I did see that posting from the guy who was responsible but don't remember his name. I very quickly hit the delete key. Russ Clifford RV-7 waiting for wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2002
From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Heated Seats??
Anyone ever heard of putting heated seats in an RV?? my chevy suburban has nice heated seats and they are awesome in the winter time. cliff dow jr cdowjr(at)yahoo.com Maine RV-7A QB Builder (engine almost bolted on!! Yippy!!) http://movies.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 2002
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 03/20/02
In a message dated 3/20/02 11:54:56 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: Cliff.... I see you didn't learn anything by getting bounced on Doug's list. You should give serious thought to giving up your project, doubtful if you can get a pilot's license with your attitude. No instructor would put up with it for a second. Jerry From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Welcome Cliff.... if.... Don't get smart and bossy with me Jerry or i'll have to slap you silly!!!! >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2002
Subject: Cary's Fuel tank
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
Hi Cary What did you do with your leaking rivets? Did you contact Van's? Let use know what you did and well it worked. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cary's Fuel tank
Thanks for asking Scott I mixed up some proseal, cut it with MEK until it looked like thin paint. Dabbed it on the offending rivets and put a vacuum of about 20 to 24 inches of water Just sucked the sealant right into the leak Seems to have worked well Cary Rhodes, ailerons --- Scott Trask wrote: > > > Hi Cary > What did you do with your leaking rivets? Did you > contact Van's? Let use > know what you did and well it worked. > Scott Trask IMT > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2002
From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 03/20/02
I'm sorry had too much red win last night due to the arrival of my engine - which I got mounted this morning - i truly am sorry - will work on keeping myself off this computer in the evening. cliff jr cdowjr(at)yahoo.com --- Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/20/02 11:54:56 PM, > rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > Cliff.... > > I see you didn't learn anything by getting bounced > on Doug's list. You should > give serious thought to giving up your project, > doubtful if you can get a > pilot's license with your attitude. No instructor > would put up with it for a > second. > > Jerry > > > From: Clifford Dow <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Welcome Cliff.... if.... > > > > Don't get smart and bossy with me Jerry or i'll > have > to slap you silly!!!! >> > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Heated Seats??
Date: Mar 21, 2002
I haven't heard of those in a RV but other planes I have. It would be to less advantage to me since I live in california where the temp rarly gets below 60. Rigth now at 7AM it is proubly 68 degree's outside. Ill be making a trip from the LAX area to up north (Palos Romos) which shoudl be fun but not in an RV. Thorp T-18 (Tail-draggers are the best) Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Dow" <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV7-List: Heated Seats?? > > Anyone ever heard of putting heated seats in an RV?? > my chevy suburban has nice heated seats and they are > awesome in the winter time. > cliff dow jr > cdowjr(at)yahoo.com > Maine RV-7A QB Builder (engine almost bolted on!! Yippy!!) > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Heated Seats??
Date: Mar 21, 2002
Check the RV-List archives. There was detailed discussion on them a year or two ago. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...Rebuilding! searching for Navion to fly > > I haven't heard of those in a RV but other planes I have. It > would be to > less advantage to me since I live in california where the > temp rarly gets > > > > > Anyone ever heard of putting heated seats in an RV?? > > my chevy suburban has nice heated seats and they are > > awesome in the winter time. > > cliff dow jr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Parsons" <DAP(at)DParsons.com>
Subject: Rebuilding
Date: Mar 21, 2002
Are you rebuilding the RV-6 that you lost in the "incident", or are you starting over? Don Parsons Houston -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg Young Subject: RE: RV7-List: Heated Seats?? [...stuff deleted...] Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...Rebuilding! searching for Navion to fly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Rebuilding
Date: Mar 21, 2002
Don, Well kinda both. The only piece of metal that isn't bent is the vertical stab. Everything else absorbed energy that I didn't have to. I picked up the salvage on Tuesday and it's still sitting on the trailer in my hangar. If I rebuild the airframe as a -6 then I could just continue with my test period. If I build a -7 I think I'd need a new DAR sign-off. I have not started disassembly and inventory but there's a lot to use on either a -6 or -7. What I know of so far: VS (likely a wall hanging though), wing tips w/ RMD lights, nav lights, strobes, ELT, a couple antennas, tail wheel assy, seat belts, stick grips, AFP fuel pump, battery & box, complete panel, FWF except prop & cowling, spinner, windshield, canopy and one wheel/tire/brake and gear leg fairing. Amazingly, everything still lit up when the master was thrown by the salvage guys so we had to disconnect the battery for transport. Whether it's technically rebuild or new, -6 or -7, I'm just calling it the Phoenix project. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...Rebuilding! searching for Navion to fly > > Are you rebuilding the RV-6 that you lost in the "incident", > or are you > starting over? > > Don Parsons > Houston > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Heated Seats??
Date: Mar 21, 2002
All that California has to offer is stuck up girls and good weather. I'd rather live in Co. or something in the colder climate, just not old enough to move out. =) Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "old ogre" <jollyd(at)ipns.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Heated Seats?? > > we hate you..fello pilots of oregon...windy, and COLD here {:~) do not archive > > Justin wrote: > > > > > I haven't heard of those in a RV but other planes I have. It would be to > > less advantage to me since I live in california where the temp rarly gets > > below 60. Rigth now at 7AM it is proubly 68 degree's outside. Ill be making > > a trip from the LAX area to up north (Palos Romos) which shoudl be fun but > > not in an RV. Thorp T-18 (Tail-draggers are the best) > > > > Justin > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Clifford Dow" <cdowjr(at)yahoo.com> > > To: "RV-7 Matronics List RV-7" > > Subject: RV7-List: Heated Seats?? > > > > > > > > Anyone ever heard of putting heated seats in an RV?? > > > my chevy suburban has nice heated seats and they are > > > awesome in the winter time. > > > cliff dow jr > > > cdowjr(at)yahoo.com > > > Maine RV-7A QB Builder (engine almost bolted on!! Yippy!!) > > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2002
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos
Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos I've got 5 copies of a Thunderbirds / Blue Angles video which we'll give away for Free to the first 5 people who ask for it along with any other regular order from Builder's Bookstore. It's a 50 minute video, 1/2 on the Thunderbirds, and 1/2 on the Blue Angels. The Thunderbird segment is excellent. The Blue Angels section is not as good. To get one, just write FREE THUNDERBIRDS VIDEO in the special instructions box on the Builder's Bookstore on-line order form, or say so if you prefer to order something by phone. Also, in case you are caller #6 or later, note if your regular order depends on whether there is a free video left to include in your package. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://buildersbooks.com 800 780-4115 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2002
From: Peter W Mountain <peterm(at)kdc0.cavecreek.net>
Subject: Re: Heated Seats??
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky pilot" <vapilot1(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 28, 2002
Hi all; I'm looking for some advice. I am working on the empennage for my RV-7A QB and this is all new stuff for me so please bear with me. I am wondering if it's necessary to prime the inside of the empennage skins? I've been using a self-etching primer (spray can) to prime the spars, ribs, etc. I do not live in a salt air environment. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! Skip vapilot1(at)hotmail.com Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: primers
I am sure the advice is everywhere!!!!! I have the opinion that I prime all inside skins with epoxy primer after being etched with acid. I use a scotchbite pad and gloves to scrub the skins with water and alumprep. Then let air dry. When it was soo cold this winter I voted for the self etching primer. cary rhodes --- lucky pilot wrote: > > > Hi all; > > I'm looking for some advice. I am working on the > empennage for my RV-7A QB > and this is all new stuff for me so please bear with > me. I am wondering if > it's necessary to prime the inside of the empennage > skins? I've been using > a self-etching primer (spray can) to prime the > spars, ribs, etc. I do not > live in a salt air environment. Any thoughts? > > Thanks for your help! > > Skip > vapilot1(at)hotmail.com > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: > http://mobile.msn.com > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2002
From: vernw <vernw(at)pdq.net>
Subject: RE: priming
Skip, Keep in mind that the aluminum is already very well protected by it's Alclad coating. Being concerned about weight, especially in the tail section, I'm only going to use a self etching chromate primer on the inside surfaces like you are just to cover any scratches that may be there. I live near the coast in Houston but I'll bet I'll be long buried before the inside of my aircraft shows any rust. I think what you (we) are doing by using just the spray can self-etching primer might be considered by some to be technically overkill, but it's a really good thing to do because of the high degree of added protection you get without adding hardly any extra weight. Some builders have mentioned that they are going to spray both chromate and then epoxy primer on the inside of their entire aircraft. I wish they would rethink that. I was in the paint business (collision shop) for over 25 years and I can assure you that you are talking about some SIGNIFICANT weight gain doing that. And most of that weight gain will end up behind the CG. Anyone who has to have the implications of that explained to them might want to think about selling their project off altogether so that they can live out their expected full and natural life :-) Vern >===== Original Message From rv7-list(at)matronics.com ===== > >Hi all; > >I'm looking for some advice. I am working on the empennage for my RV-7A QB >and this is all new stuff for me so please bear with me. I am wondering if >it's necessary to prime the inside of the empennage skins? I've been using >a self-etching primer (spray can) to prime the spars, ribs, etc. I do not >live in a salt air environment. Any thoughts? > >Thanks for your help! > >Skip >vapilot1(at)hotmail.com > > >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: priming
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Date: Mar 28, 2002
03/28/2002 09:51:50 AM It would be interesting for someone to weigh a piece of their empennage (say HS) and compare to the weight of one painted with epoxy. I painted mine and my HS weighs 18 pounds (at least by my bath scales). I thought about running an experiment to more accurately determine the weight gain per square inch of paint area, but have not done it yet. No doubt it adds weight .... but in the end, I painted .... and so have many more. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bo124rs(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: priming
It's alclad, this stuff is going to be here long after we are here. Not to sound at all smart :-), but who in their right mind is going to buy a 40 year old homebuilt RV-7 in 2042 whether it's primed or not. With that said, I am using the 7220 self etching primer in a can from NAPA on any part that is going to be attached to another, ie., I am priming the ribs so that I have a coat of primer between the rib and unprimed skin. Gives me little warm and fuzzy feeling, probably not much else. Dana Overall Richmond, KY New totally pre punched 7 emp. http://rvflying.tripod.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RE: priming
For what it's worth (if anyone is keeping statistics), this is my plan as well. I am using the Sherwin-Williams 988 self-etching primer (similar, if not identical, to the NAPA stuff). In general the rule will be to put one coat of primer between any two contacting aluminum surfaces, and to fully coat any non-alclad surfaces. To accomplish this, i'll be priming all the ribs, but no skins. There's a few reasons i've chosen to go this route. One, I don't have access to a large paint shop that's conveniently accessible. So small parts, painted in small batches, in my (open) carport, with a rattle can, will suffice. At least until I reach the fuselage. Two, I want to keep the weight down, and regardless of whether people think the extra weight of priming *everything* is negligible or not, it is weight that (in my opinion) can be avoided. And Three, despite living in a "salty environment" (Vancouver, BC area), i've seen oodles and oodles of Cessna's that are 50 years old and have no corrosion on the insides, despite living in the same region. -RB4 RV-7 Empennage rv7 "at" b4.ca Bo124rs(at)aol.com wrote: >It's alclad, this stuff is going to be here long after we are here. Not to >sound at all smart :-), but who in their right mind is going to buy a 40 year >old homebuilt RV-7 in 2042 whether it's primed or not. With that said, I am >using the 7220 self etching primer in a can from NAPA on any part that is >going to be attached to another, ie., I am priming the ribs so that I have a >coat of primer between the rib and unprimed skin. Gives me little warm and >fuzzy feeling, probably not much else. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2002
From: jollyd <jollyd(at)ipns.com>
Subject: Re: RE: priming
HEY...you NEVER know....I own an ercoupe that's over fifty years old..and it's still going strong...gonna sell my RV8A that's almost finished, and go back to it...of course it don't go as fast, or with the style as a Van's, but it iS cheaper to fly!..but, like the sign says...it's experimental!...blue skys to you! Bo124rs(at)aol.com wrote: > > It's alclad, this stuff is going to be here long after we are here. Not to > sound at all smart :-), but who in their right mind is going to buy a 40 year > old homebuilt RV-7 in 2042 whether it's primed or not. With that said, I am > using the 7220 self etching primer in a can from NAPA on any part that is > going to be attached to another, ie., I am priming the ribs so that I have a > coat of primer between the rib and unprimed skin. Gives me little warm and > fuzzy feeling, probably not much else. > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > New totally pre punched 7 emp. > http://rvflying.tripod.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2002
Subject: Re:
I use varaprime from auto paint stores. You must mix and spray with a gun-go with a small gravity fed one. I have tried nearly all types/forms. I spray ribs, spars and interior of skins. Perhaps it's over kill, but much easier than the etch, alodine, epoxy method and sticks better than spray can stuff. I use spray cans of Marhide as a touch up so I don't have to mix-clean. Auto paint guys will give you all the directions. Bob in Arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: priming
Here we go with the primer questions for this week. I recently finished my -7 empennage and used the NAPA 7220 on the skeleton and inside of the skins. I'm about ready to start on the wings and trying to decide which way to go. The shaker cans are easy to use and convenient. I think I will not paint the inside skins as they are alclad. For the inside structures I'm not sure. One builder mentioned that the 7220 won't protect against moisture unless it is sprayed with an epoxy primer. This builder suggested I use alodine and then spray with a primer. What would you veteran guys suggest on priming? Seems like the choices are many and wonder which is best. It has always been said: Keep the aircraft light in weight. Russ Clifford Lake forest, CA RV-7A waiting for wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: priming
Check the archives-this enough reading for you to get the idea. I etched, alodined, and epoxy primed tail. True over kill if you are not near salt water. I won't do again. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James & Shalise Cash" <jcash(at)granbury.com>
Subject: FS: 0-360 Barrett C/S prop firewall forward package!
Date: Mar 28, 2002
RV-6/7 almost firewall forward package by Barrett. All new or 0 SMOH! Engine: Barrett Performance Aircraft Lycoming O-360-A3A Serial# L-8845-36A 0 SMOH, 1900 TT, no prop strike 180HP with all yellow tags (Certified Engine) All AD's complied with New slick mags and harnesses Chromed Intake tubes and Valve covers Real Gaskets under valve covers AC Fuel pump Oil Filter Adjustable oil pressure Ellison Throttle Body Injector: EFS-4-5, New! RV-6 Baffling: Installed and fitted Prop: Hartzell Constant Speed Prop HC-C2YK-1BF Serial# CH 28403 0 SMOH All AD's complied with Prop Governor: Woodward B210681 Serial# 2001891 0 SMOH Exhaust: Vetterman Crossover stainless steel exhaust, RV-6, NEW Airbox: Vans RV-6 airbox Cowling: RV-6 Lightweight cowling Installed, and fitted for engine and prop Set up for Dzus fasteners (not included) Scoop needs to be bonded to cowl Only $26,999!!! Buyer responsible for delivery I am upgrading my RV-6 project to an IO-360. Please, only serious inquiries. Please email me any and all questions. I will provide my phone number to serious inquiries. I will sell to the first offer to take the entire package. Located in Granbury, TX TX01 Jimmy Cash Granbury, TX jcash(at)granbury.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2002
From: Bruce Swayze <swayze(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: RE: priming
I'm new to this list and haven't even started my project yet, but it seems to me that one could simply weigh all the parts that go into the HS, and see how that compares to a finished primed one. Wouldn't that give some idea of how much weight you are adding with primer? Bruce Swayze RV-7A (not started yet) > > > >It would be interesting for someone to weigh a piece of their empennage >(say HS) and compare to the weight of one painted with epoxy. > >I painted mine and my HS weighs 18 pounds (at least by my bath scales). I >thought about running an experiment to more accurately determine the weight >gain per square inch of paint area, but have not done it yet. No doubt it >adds weight .... but in the end, I painted .... and so have many more. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: RE: priming
Date: Apr 01, 2002
I did a test and the Self etching primer does not stick as well to AL after it has been alodined. The Sherwin Williams 988 can says that as well. John, RV Wings. -----Original Message----- From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com [mailto:RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com] Subject: Re: RV7-List: RE: priming Here we go with the primer questions for this week. I recently finished my -7 empennage and used the NAPA 7220 on the skeleton and inside of the skins. I'm about ready to start on the wings and trying to decide which way to go. The shaker cans are easy to use and convenient. I think I will not paint the inside skins as they are alclad. For the inside structures I'm not sure. One builder mentioned that the 7220 won't protect against moisture unless it is sprayed with an epoxy primer. This builder suggested I use alodine and then spray with a primer. What would you veteran guys suggest on priming? Seems like the choices are many and wonder which is best. It has always been said: Keep the aircraft light in weight. Russ Clifford Lake forest, CA RV-7A waiting for wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Aileron Push Rods
Date: Apr 01, 2002
There must be a trick to riveting the rod ends to the powder coated aileron push rods. It calls for a 470 4-12 rivet through the rod end and they all bend over because so much sticks out. The center of the rod end is hollow so I'm sure the rivet squeezes up inside as well. I get big ugly rivets on the working side and don't know how to make them squeeze properly, any one know the trick? John RV 7 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2002
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: RE: Aileron Push Rods
I saw them do this on 'From the Ground Up' the show on Discovery wings, building an RV-8. It looked fairly straightforward. They used some sort of pop rivet. Not sure the exact spec though. I haven't got to the wings yet, still waiting for delivery. Are the called out rivets too long? Any more detailed info regarding your problem might help me understand the issue.... Sorry for the direct e-mail, I'm at work and just thought I'd write back quickly... Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 -----Original Message----- From: jadams(at)scoutmedical.com Subject: RV7-List: Aileron Push Rods > RV7 List message posted by: John Adams There must be a trick to riveting the rod ends to the powder coated aileron push rods. It calls for a 470 4 12 rivet through the rod end and they all bend over because so much sticks out. The center of the rod end is hollow so I'm sure the rivet squeezes up inside as well. I get big ugly rivets on the working side and don't know how to make them squeeze properly, any one know the trick? John RV 7 wings _ ======================================================================= _ = The RV7 List Email Forum _ = This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions of _ = List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other form _ = of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. _ ======================================================================= _ = !! NEW !! _ = Browse List: Use your web browser to view the latest messages. _ = Photo Share: Share photos and files with other List members. _ ======================================================================= _ = List Related Information _ = Post Message: rv7 list(at)matronics.com _ = UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription _ = Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare _ = Browse List: http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv7 list _ = Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search _ = Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives _ = List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/rv7 list _ = Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _ = Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution _ = Matronics: http://www.matronics.com/ _ ======================================================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: RE: Aileron Push Rods
Date: Apr 01, 2002
Pop rivets are used on all the push rods but this one (the one going directly to the aileron). The rivet goes all the way through the 1/2 inch rod. John -----Original Message----- From: Mark Taylor [mailto:mtaylor(at)msxi.com] Subject: RV7-List: RE: Aileron Push Rods I saw them do this on 'From the Ground Up' the show on Discovery wings, building an RV-8. It looked fairly straightforward. They used some sort of pop rivet. Not sure the exact spec though. I haven't got to the wings yet, still waiting for delivery. Are the called out rivets too long? Any more detailed info regarding your problem might help me understand the issue.... Sorry for the direct e-mail, I'm at work and just thought I'd write back quickly... Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 -----Original Message----- From: jadams(at)scoutmedical.com Subject: RV7-List: Aileron Push Rods > RV7 List message posted by: John Adams There must be a trick to riveting the rod ends to the powder coated aileron push rods. It calls for a 470 4 12 rivet through the rod end and they all bend over because so much sticks out. The center of the rod end is hollow so I'm sure the rivet squeezes up inside as well. I get big ugly rivets on the working side and don't know how to make them squeeze properly, any one know the trick? John RV 7 wings _ ======================================================================= _ = The RV7 List Email Forum _ = This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions of _ = List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other form _ = of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. _ ======================================================================= _ = !! NEW !! _ = Browse List: Use your web browser to view the latest messages. _ = Photo Share: Share photos and files with other List members. _ ======================================================================= _ = List Related Information _ = Post Message: rv7 list(at)matronics.com _ = UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription _ = Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare _ = Browse List: http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv7 list _ = Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search _ = Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives _ = List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/rv7 list _ = Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _ = Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution _ = Matronics: http://www.matronics.com/ _ ======================================================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: RE: priming
Date: Apr 02, 2002
I just finished my wings. Having primed the empennage and become disgusted with the labour, mess and cost of prming, the wings are alodined only. I save labour by not having to scuff the components and on the cleanup. Teh results are excellent. The only drawback to alodining is that it is not as scratch resistant as a good hard primer - so I do some touchup with primer. An alternate suggested by a local maintainter is to wet assemble. Leave the wing skins as untouched alclad. Where rib and skin meet, use a spray can to spray both the rib flange and along the inside of the line of rivet holes and cleco and rivet them together while the primer is still wet. These are the two least labour intensive methods I know. The most labour intensive is to scuff, alodine and them prime with the two part primer used on agricultural aircraft! That is good enough for a plane that lives at the beach. David Francis, Canberra, Australia, VH-ZEE, wings finished over easter. -----Original Message----- From: John Adams [mailto:jadams(at)scoutmedical.com] Subject: RE: RV7-List: RE: priming I did a test and the Self etching primer does not stick as well to AL after it has been alodined. The Sherwin Williams 988 can says that as well. -----Original Message----- From: RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com [mailto:RJCLIFF77(at)aol.com] Subject: Re: RV7-List: RE: priming Here we go with the primer questions for this week. I recently finished my -7 empennage and used the NAPA 7220 on the skeleton and inside of the skins. I'm about ready to start on the wings and trying to decide which way to go. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2002
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/01/02
In a message dated 4/1/02 11:55:16 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << There must be a trick to riveting the rod ends to the powder coated aileron push rods. It calls for a 470 4-12 rivet through the rod end and they all bend over because so much sticks out. The center of the rod end is hollow so I'm sure the rivet squeezes up inside as well. I get big ugly rivets on the working side and don't know how to make them squeeze properly, any one know the trick? John RV 7 wings >> On my -6a plans they say to have 'em welded as an alternate. I did just that, took them to a good welding shop and had them TIG welded. Looks great and is MUCH stronger than rivets. Cost $20 though. My .02. BTW, you can then paint them over with Van's touch up paint that matches the powder coat. Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR RV6a QB F kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2002
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/01/02
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 4/2/02 2:04 AM, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com at Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/1/02 11:55:16 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > << There must be a trick to riveting the rod ends to the powder coated aileron > push rods. It calls for a 470 4-12 rivet through the rod end and they all > bend over because so much sticks out. The center of the rod end is hollow > so I'm sure the rivet squeezes up inside as well. I get big ugly rivets on > the working side and don't know how to make them squeeze properly, any one > know the trick? > John > RV 7 wings >> > > On my -6a plans they say to have 'em welded as an alternate. I did just that, > took them to a good welding shop and had them TIG welded. Looks great and is > MUCH stronger than rivets. Cost $20 though. My .02. BTW, you can then paint > them over with Van's touch up paint that matches the powder coat. > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > RV6a QB F kit > > > > I also welded my A. rods on my TIG welder. On my other home build it has rod like that I did the same thing. Good way to go. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: re: aileron push rods
I whammed the -12 rivets with a hammer. they didn't bend but were not quite as pretty as they should be. gorilla rivet- strong but ugly -- I wish i had tig welded them cary rhodes building flaps http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Tail Dragger rear fuse question
Date: Apr 07, 2002
I am stuck. the tie down bar and the tail spring mount seem to conflict when following the builder's manual. Drawing 21 shows the tie down mounted on the F712 bulkhead. Drawing 27, in describing the tail spring position, omits the tie down. I can't see how they both can go on F712. Larry in Indiana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2002
From: Gary Coonan <gcoonan(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tail Dragger rear fuse question
They don't, the tie down is for the -7a and the spring is for the -7. in fact if you are building a -7, you should even have the extrusion to make the tie down bracket. The drawings nor the manual really specify. Do not know which you are building, but if you are building the -7 make sure you get the spring weldment in before you put bottom skin on. It is very tight. Gary M. Coonan -7 Fusalage, waiting on finshing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming Subject: RV7-List: Tail Dragger rear fuse question I am stuck. the tie down bar and the tail spring mount seem to conflict when following the builder's manual. Drawing 21 shows the tie down mounted on the F712 bulkhead. Drawing 27, in describing the tail spring position, omits the tie down. I can't see how they both can go on F712. Larry in Indiana = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Tail Dragger rear fuse question
Date: Apr 07, 2002
Hi Larry, You don't have a tie down for a tail dragger (uses the tailwheel). The tie down is intended for the 7A (nose dragger). Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6, Minneapolis. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming Subject: RV7-List: Tail Dragger rear fuse question I am stuck. the tie down bar and the tail spring mount seem to conflict when following the builder's manual. Drawing 21 shows the tie down mounted on the F712 bulkhead. Drawing 27, in describing the tail spring position, omits the tie down. I can't see how they both can go on F712. Larry in Indiana ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Tail Dragger rear fuse question
Date: Apr 07, 2002
Thanks for your reply. I guess part of the real confusing thing is I have the tie down bar and put it in. Of course I couldn't have done that if I hadn't. I am building an RV7. Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Tail Dragger rear fuse question > > Hi Larry, > > You don't have a tie down for a tail dragger (uses the tailwheel). The tie > down is intended for the 7A (nose dragger). > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6, Minneapolis. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > LarryRobertHelming > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: Tail Dragger rear fuse question > > > > I am stuck. the tie down bar and the tail spring mount seem to conflict > when following the builder's manual. Drawing 21 shows the tie down > mounted on the F712 bulkhead. Drawing 27, in describing the tail spring > position, omits the tie down. I can't see how they both can go on > F712. > > Larry in Indiana > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Wing jig or religious statement?!
Date: Apr 07, 2002
I've searched the archives but couldn't find an answer to this wing jig question: I'd like to put the angle stock on the *outside* of the wing jig instead of on the inside. Drawing 12A calls for approximately 114" in between vertical posts, but the way I want to orient my jig, I've got one piece of angle stock inside one post, and the other piece of angle stock *outside* the other post. The distance works out just fine, but what I'm wondering is whether that one jig post being inside the span of the wing will interfere in any way. I assume it won't, since I've got at least a foot between the vertical post and where the spar will mount on the angle stock. Just let me know if I'm getting into dangerous territory here. The other thing...I decided not to mount my cross bar angle stock just yet...I'm going to wait until the last minute, because from my neighbors' perspective, it looks like I've built a giant crucifix in my garage. If I leave it like that, they're definitely gonna think I'm some religious freak. 8 ) )_( Dan http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Okrent3209(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 08, 2002
Subject: Rudder Clearance with VS at Counterweight
Just finished the rudder alignement with the vertical stabilizer. The gap came out to 1/8" along the top edge. I could not locate a dimension on any of the drawings. Is this OK? Mike Okrent Rv7A Elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing jig or religious statement?!
Date: Apr 08, 2002
From: "Brandon Dixon" <dixon(at)cs.ua.edu>
I mounted both cross pieces on the outside with no problems on my 7A wings. Brandon Dixon 7A fuse kit -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] Subject: RV7-List: Wing jig or religious statement?! I've searched the archives but couldn't find an answer to this wing jig question: I'd like to put the angle stock on the *outside* of the wing jig instead of on the inside. Drawing 12A calls for approximately 114" in between vertical posts, but the way I want to orient my jig, I've got one piece of angle stock inside one post, and the other piece of angle stock *outside* the other post. The distance works out just fine, but what I'm wondering is whether that one jig post being inside the span of the wing will interfere in any way. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Wing jig or religious statement?!
Date: Apr 09, 2002
Dan. I built my jig for RV6 wings and then converted the tail to RV7. The distance between posts was short so my two brackets were bolted to the outside faces of the posts. The wing root end was ok because the spars extend beyond the areas to be riveted. However at the tip end the post prevented me from drilling, dimpling and riveting the outboard rib in the jig. Remedies: a. If only one end bracket has to be on the outside of a post, make sure that end supports the wing root. b. make the brackets so long that there is enough room for a dimpling tool to fit between post and wing tip rib. c. Do as I did, get one hefty son to hold the wing tip clear of the jig whilst I did my duty. David Francis, VH-ZEE, wings finished, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] Subject: RV7-List: Wing jig or religious statement?! The distance works out just fine, but what I'm wondering is whether that one jig post being inside the span of the wing will interfere in any way. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2002
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: Home insurance cancelled due to RV7 being built
Date: Apr 11, 2002
I received a registered letter in the mail today from ALLIANZ Insurance Company of Canada in which they revoked my homeowners insurance policy with no reason stipulated. Here's why: - started building RV 7a in November 01 and contacted my broker to see if I could up my contents insurance to cover the aircraft in the garage. - he finally got back to me two months later and said no. Not a big deal I just went and got builders insurance through my aviation broker. - Last week I get a call from my home insurance broker saying that Allianz is all freaked out about my building of an aircraft in my garage. I explained that its just aluminum, rivets and that I wasnt even painting or priming in this location. -yesterday I received the registered letter revoking my homeowners insurance. They will not talk direct to me so the broker phoned to see what the scoop is. Yup, you guessed it...that brain dead varmints feel that my stack aluminum is a threat and want to remove themselves from the risk UGGGGGHHHHHHH ! I'm so frustrated I could over squeeze a -9 rivet and then eat it. Seems they have a clause that will allow them to cancel for any reason sane or not ). Too bad or I would sue them for mega Canadian dollars ( = a few U.S. $$ ) and finish my plane in style. So fair warning to all my Canadian homebuilders and maybe they should be looking at dumping Alianz before they get dumped. Wayne in S.ALberta RV 7a fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2002
From: Nouj <nouj(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Canopies to tip or slide?
Inthe next months I will be ordering my RV7 fuselage and finish kit but I am not sure which canopy to go for. The most important feature I require is head protection in the event of a tip over and first impressions would indicate that a slider would be the way to go. However if you look at the head rail behind the humans on a tip up it appears to be very much more substantial than that of a slider, does any one have any definitive information? Other considerations are weight, time and ease of construction, and drag penalty Any experts out there ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bo124rs(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 13, 2002
Subject: Re: Canopies to tip or slide?
One of my considerations in selection of a canopy style was the accessibility of the instrument panel. Certainly the floor of the 7 is more open than the 6. But, even with a removable panel the tipper is much easier to work behind the panel. I have never owned an airplane that I didn't have to get behind the panel on a regular basis. My feelings are the slider looks better from the outside and is cooler in taxi. The tipper looks better from the inside out. I plan on flying more than I do taxiing so tipper it is. Plus, I know I will be putting all kinds of new tricks in the panel even after I "finish" it. Honestly, you can just about flip a coin you will like either selection. Dana Overall Richmond, KY http://rvflying.tripod.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2002
From: allenblck(at)netscape.net
Subject: Re: Canopies to tip or slide?
I think Dana is right, either would be a good choice. I decided to go with the slider. After going to Sun-n-Fun and getting in and out of Van's 7, I noticed I had to be careful not to hit my head on the tipper. Also, most of the RV6's flying solved the accessibility problem by making some nice looking sub-panels. They also said by taking out the seats and laying on a board made it easy to get to the back side of the panel. I'm in a warm climate and sliding the canopy while taxing made it the choice for me. There is also a guy that made a slider that tips in the rear position to make loading the baggage compartment easier. My 2 cents worth. Is the rear headrail on the tipper formed alum. or is it a steel support like the slider? Allen Blackwell Tylertown, MS Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Flare Tool
Date: Apr 18, 2002
Maybe you guys already know this but I didn't. When you use an aircraft flare tool on AL gas line it can gall the AL and make an ugly looking flare on the inside. AL will also build up on the tool and make it worse the next flare you make. A shot of WD40 to the flare tool just before each use makes perfect shinny flares on the inside of the tube without galling. Anyone know how you make the tight bends on the side of the cockpit where the gas line exits the body? I think I will add an elbow now that I can make good flares. John N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Flare Tool
Date: Apr 19, 2002
John, And for others encountering tubes for the first time. Aircraft components have a 37.5 degree flare, not the 50 degrees common to automotive parts. Yes oil is needed prior to every use to prevent galling. For bends the critical thing is to prevent crimping of the line. You may choose to bend by hand, works well for gentle bends. Bend around a small tin can. Some reduction in cross section may easily occur, but that is usually not a problem. Preferably use a proper tube bending tube or snake. The snake can be hard to remove after bending. Tube benders produce wonderful bends but can be awkward to use in situ. See the Avery tools catalog page 54. David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia, building ailerons. -----Original Message----- From: John Adams [mailto:jadams(at)scoutmedical.com] Subject: RV7-List: Flare Tool Maybe you guys already know this but I didn't. When you use an aircraft flare tool on AL gas line it can gall the AL and make an ugly looking flare on the inside. Anyone know how you make the tight bends on the side of the cockpit where the gas line exits the body? I think I will add an elbow now that I can make good flares. John N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2002
Subject: Fly-in
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
Hi Help! Is there a site where I can place an add for a fly-in to get RV's to come? I would like to get a good group of RV's to show up at our Michigan Upper Peninsula EAA chp439 fly-in. It will be on Sept. 21 rain day Sept. 22 at IMT. Our Pres. is a Lancair builder and he's always getting a few lancair planes to show up. We will be getting some war birds in, Ford tri-motor and others. Big Band hanger dancing in the evening. Scott Trask (RV7A builder--1/2 way there!) IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
"RV6"
Subject: Re: RV6-List: Fly-in
Date: Apr 19, 2002
Be sure to list it on the vansairforce website. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Trask" <sctrask(at)diisd.org> Subject: RV6-List: Fly-in > --> RV6-List message posted by: Scott Trask > > Hi > Help! Is there a site where I can place an add for a fly-in to get RV's to > come? I would like to get a good group of RV's to show up at our Michigan > Upper Peninsula EAA chp439 fly-in. It will be on Sept. 21 rain day Sept. 22 > at IMT. Our Pres. is a Lancair builder and he's always getting a few > lancair planes to show up. > We will be getting some war birds in, Ford tri-motor and others. Big Band > hanger dancing in the evening. > > Scott Trask (RV7A builder--1/2 way there!) > IMT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: to shave or not to shave
Date: Apr 27, 2002
That is the question...while waiting for my wing kit, I got bored, so I started messing around with a rivet shaver. I was playing with it for the first time, trying it out on my little SportAir project. WOW!!!!!!! Granted, my rivets come out much better now than they did on my first-ever riveting job, but the shaver can have a dramatic effect. The rivets that stood a bit high ended up completely smooth and flush to the touch. I'm definitely impressed. But here's the question...is it worth shaving every rivet on the plane for consistency and a "silky smooth" finish? Or does the paint prep process take care of this naturally? I can see a few factors...ScotchBrite and primer may go a long way to smooth out the minor "tall" rivets, but does that really compare? Is there any risk in rivet shaving, i.e. reducing the "effective radius" of the rivet head (I guess this is minimized by accurately tweaking the microstop)? Anyway, I'm curious. I was going to create a web poll, but I figure I'd like to hear people's opinions in more than a yes/no fashion. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings mid-shipment, fuse & finish in June) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: to shave or not to shave
Date: Apr 27, 2002
This goes back to "getting the airplane finished" If you do a good job dimpling/countersinking, you should be fine. It is a metal airplane, and people expect to see rivets. It couldn't hurt to use the shaver for the few rivets that sit slightly above the surface, but I would not do every rivet. You are creating unnecessary work, IMHO. Also, you won't care. Once you fly it, painted or not, you won't care. Your freaking grin will be so wide that your eyes will be squinted and you couldn't see those darn rivets anyway. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV-List: to shave or not to shave > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > That is the question...while waiting for my wing kit, I got bored, so I > started messing around with a rivet shaver. I was playing with it for the > first time, trying it out on my little SportAir project. > > WOW!!!!!!! > > Granted, my rivets come out much better now than they did on my first-ever > riveting job, but the shaver can have a dramatic effect. The rivets that > stood a bit high ended up completely smooth and flush to the touch. I'm > definitely impressed. > > But here's the question...is it worth shaving every rivet on the plane for > consistency and a "silky smooth" finish? Or does the paint prep process > take care of this naturally? I can see a few factors...ScotchBrite and > primer may go a long way to smooth out the minor "tall" rivets, but does > that really compare? Is there any risk in rivet shaving, i.e. reducing the > "effective radius" of the rivet head (I guess this is minimized by > accurately tweaking the microstop)? > > Anyway, I'm curious. I was going to create a web poll, but I figure I'd > like to hear people's opinions in more than a yes/no fashion. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (wings mid-shipment, fuse & finish in June) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Re: RV-List: to shave or not to sha
ve
Date: Apr 29, 2002
Foolks a couple of things about proud rivets: a. I now use the slightly deeper tank dies as standard, particularly on the thicker skins. This gives a more consistently smooth outcome. b. sanding during the painting process can be used to smooth out the higher rivets, with or without filler being applied. c. Most high rivets are under driven. any particularly high rivets can be flattened somewhat with an extra hit, particularly effective is to back rivet selectively, ie. bucking bar on the manufactured head, if you have access for the gun from the rear. HAve fun, David Francis, wings finished. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Besing [mailto:azpilot(at)extremezone.com] Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: to shave or not to shave This goes back to "getting the airplane finished" If you do a good job dimpling/countersinking, you should be fine. It is a metal airplane, and people expect to see rivets. It couldn't hurt to use the shaver for the few rivets that sit slightly above the surface, but I would not do every rivet. You are creating unnecessary work, IMHO. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV-List: to shave or not to shave > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > That is the question...while waiting for my wing kit, I got bored, so I > started messing around with a rivet shaver. I was playing with it for the > first time, trying it out on my little SportAir project. > > WOW!!!!!!! > > > > But here's the question...is it worth shaving every rivet on the plane for > consistency and a "silky smooth" finish? Or does the paint prep process > take care of this naturally? > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (wings mid-shipment, fuse & finish in June) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2002
From: Lynn Clark <lclark(at)klclark.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: to shave or not to shave
On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Francis, David wrote: > > Foolks a couple of things about proud rivets: > > a. I now use the slightly deeper tank dies as standard, particularly on the > thicker skins. This gives a more consistently smooth outcome. Using the tank dies to get a smoother result is an interesting idea. I've read the writeup that Sam Buchanan has on his web site. One thing I have to wonder, though, is since the manufactured head of the rivet ends up being a couple thousandths of an inch below the surface of the skin, is it possible that rivets set in tank-dimpled holes will be a couple thousandths loose? IOW, is it possible that the flush rivet set can't actually contact the rivet head because the skin is in the way? Or does the flush rivet set compress the skin enough to guarantee that the rivet is fully set? What do those of you who've used the tank dies think? Has anyone tried twisting the shop head of rivets driven in such holes to see if they're any looser than rivets set in non-tank-die-dimpled holes? -- Lynn RV-7A emp (still...) Louisville, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Re: RV-List: to shave or not to s
have
Date: Apr 30, 2002
Lynn, I first had the same doubts. However consider that: a. a cleco does not hold skin to rib rigidly, ie there is play available. b. when you dimple two things occur, you bend the metal to form a dimple, and the hole is slightly widened by the male die. The displaced metal goes somewhere - it goes into the rim of the dimple ie. the dimple rises (look along a dimpled surface against a distant light, each dimple has a visible rise. This rise creates a small gap. That gap is flattened out by the rivet gun hammer. c. when you hit the assembly with a rivet gun the whole deal vibrates. In summary there is plenty of give in dimple and rib, enough to give good contact between hammer and bucking bar. The way I got into the technique was the failure of the conventional dies to dimple well on the thick inner top wing skin. The quality of the dimpling determines the quality of the finish. The standard dies on thicker skin gave a shallower dimple, hence my initial riveting gave slightly proud rivets. I dont have a shaver, so I unzipped the skin, re-dimpled with the tank rivets, and got lovely results. The TC passed the work on first inspection. The proud rivets are lacking in strenght because the full area of the manufactured head is not in full contact with the skin. Hence the better finished tank die rivets must be stronger. PS the Vans bible states the flaps are the easiest part of the wing kit to build - wrong, beware the inner leading edge brackets, they call for black smith skills. Hope this helps, David Francis, VH-ZEE. -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Clark [mailto:lclark(at)klclark.net] Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: to shave or not to shave On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Francis, David wrote: > > Foolks a couple of things about proud rivets: > > a. I now use the slightly deeper tank dies as standard, particularly on the > thicker skins. This gives a more consistently smooth outcome. Using the tank dies to get a smoother result is an interesting idea. I've read the writeup that Sam Buchanan has on his web site. One thing I have to wonder, though, is since the manufactured head of the rivet ends up being a couple thousandths of an inch below the surface of the skin, is it possible that rivets set in tank-dimpled holes will be a couple thousandths loose? IOW, is it possible that the flush rivet set can't actually contact the rivet head because the skin is in the way? Or does the flush rivet set compress the skin enough to guarantee that the rivet is fully set? -- Lynn RV-7A emp (still...) Louisville, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2002
From: John Reuterskiold <mtnflyr(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Tailwheel Socket Install
Any -7 quickbuilders out there who have figured out an easy way to get the tailwheel spring socket (WD-409) mounted square between F-711 and F-712 bulkheads? I bet this would have been easier to align before the F-711 was riveted in place. Thanks John Reuterskiold RV-7 QB wings done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel Socket Install
Date: May 03, 2002
I haven't. I have it installed temporarily and after a lot of trial and error have a snug fit at the bottom of the 409 but about 1/16" gap at the top of the rear plate and 712. I may just shim it per Vans instructions but I want to do a trial fit of the VS before I commit to drilling holes. I did find it helped to straighten the plates of the 409 that had warped during welding. Neil McLeod 7QB Fuse ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Reuterskiold" <mtnflyr(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RV7-List: Tailwheel Socket Install > > Any -7 quickbuilders out there who have figured out an easy way to get > the tailwheel spring socket (WD-409) mounted square between F-711 and > F-712 bulkheads? I bet this would have been easier to align before the > F-711 was riveted in place. > > Thanks > John Reuterskiold > RV-7 QB wings done > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Lubricating the micro-stop
Date: May 04, 2002
I'm machine countersinking the hundreds of holes where nutplates attach to the wing spars. Problem is, since I'm doing zillions of holes in one sitting, the micro-stop gets HOT. Last night I took it apart, and I cleaned and greased the moving parts, but that didn't seem to help alleviate the heat problem. Is this common? I have to assume so, but since I haven't read anything about it in the archives I'm not sure. Is it just a sign that I need to move onto something else and let the dang thing cool off? Stupid questions, I know, but pardon my caution...I'd rather ask a stupid question than have to replace the tool (or worse, kit parts). )_( Dan http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Lubricating the micro-stop
Date: May 06, 2002
Dan, I have not encountered a heat problem. But I operate a slow air drill at reduced pressure, about 35psi to slow it down so I can control the beast and get a smooth finish. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE. Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV7-List: Lubricating the micro-stop I'm machine countersinking the hundreds of holes where nutplates attach to the wing spars. Problem is, since I'm doing zillions of holes in one sitting, the micro-stop gets HOT. Last night I took it apart, and I cleaned and greased the moving parts, but that didn't seem to help alleviate the heat problem. )_( Dan http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2002
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Paint gun recommendation
I'm looking for input on the optimal paint gun for priming the internals of my RV-7A parts. The objective is to minimize fumes because I'll spraying in my attached garage. My current thinking is that a HVLP gravity feed with a narrow spray pattern (at 8" from work) would be the best bet for minimizing over-spray (and thus fumes?). Any recommendations? Am I on the right track? Is one brand easier to clean than another? John Burns Albuquerque ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Paint gun recommendation
Date: May 09, 2002
John, If oversparay is the problem a lateral approach is to use alodine. Not much overspray from things sitting in a bath. Also its not temperature or humidity sensitive like spray painting is. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, flaps & ailerons nearly finished. -----Original Message----- From: John Burns [mailto:jgburns(at)comcast.net] Subject: RV7-List: Paint gun recommendation I'm looking for input on the optimal paint gun for priming the internals of my RV-7A parts. The objective is to minimize fumes because I'll spraying in my attached garage. John Burns Albuquerque ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYNGSAMRV7(at)AOL.com
Date: May 09, 2002
Subject: Re: Paint gun recommendation
John, There is a ton of material in the archives, but if you want my recent experience, here goes- I agree on your choice of the hvlp gravity gun, I use a small Porter Cable GT0801 hvlp gravity detail gun 4.5oz. cup with very good results. Since I live near the gulf I have chosen you do the full corrosion treatment. 1. alum.cleaner/etch 2. Alodine 3.PPG. DP402LF catalyst / DP50LF epoxy primer. I have been amazed at how little paint it takes to cover with a very lite coat on the insides of the skin and frame, So far the HS has taken 4.5 oz.(mixed), VS 2.5 oz and the rudder 2oz. Over spray is at a minim. Hope this helps. Sam Kurtz N467SK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2002
Subject: Alodine vs. primer
From: Joseph J Hasper <j1j2h3(at)juno.com>
Is alodine by itself sufficient protection? I'm just starting construction and this is something I've been wondering about. My plane will live in eastern Pennsylvania, but may make occasional trips to Florida. Jim Hasper - RV-7 builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Lueder <blueder@superior-air-parts.com>
Subject: Alodine vs. primer
Date: May 14, 2002
Not sure how other listers are going to reply to this, but I can say that we ( at Superior ) leave our engines alodined ( paint ready ) and have had no problems. All the major components are investment cast aluminum. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph J Hasper [mailto:j1j2h3(at)juno.com] Subject: RV7-List: Alodine vs. primer Is alodine by itself sufficient protection? I'm just starting construction and this is something I've been wondering about. My plane will live in eastern Pennsylvania, but may make occasional trips to Florida. Jim Hasper - RV-7 builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Alodine vs. primer
Date: May 16, 2002
Jim, My local aircraft maintainer indicates that alodine provides very good protection. Alodine plus primer would be appropriate if the aircraft has a permanent home within the salt spray zone of a beach, and in crop spraying aircraft. Alodine is adds no weight, has no overspray, does not requriescuffing of the aluminium, and seems to be about the same cost as the cheaper single part primers. The only downside I have found so far is that it is not as scratch resistant as a two part primer. So I get to use tape and touch ip a bit more. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE wings finished. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph J Hasper [mailto:j1j2h3(at)juno.com] Subject: RV7-List: Alodine vs. primer Is alodine by itself sufficient protection? Jim Hasper - RV-7 builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: To flute or not to flute
Date: May 17, 2002
W-408-1 L & R are the most inboard leading edge ribs, just outboard of the tanks. They didn't come pre-punched in my kit. I'm not upset about that, but I'm kind of confused about how to go about fluting those 2 ribs to straighten them. On the emp, we had a fluting guide (a full-scale drawing) for all non-pre-punched ribs, which showed the rivet pattern, and thus where to make the flutes. Am I missing something essential on these 2 wing leading edge ribs...like a fluting diagram somewhere? Or is it as simple as putting it up against the next ribs over and just matching up the hole/fluting pattern? It's been a long, tiring week (work-wise, not building wise unfortunately) and I apologize if this is a lame-ass question. 8 ) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings) dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: To flute or not to flute
Date: May 18, 2002
I'd insert the ribs and make sure they are fully inserted. Put a center line on the rib with a red or black marker. Get it centered and mark the hole locations using the skin as a guide. Then remove the rib and flute between the holes. I'd just be real careful and get the rib fully inserted before hand. Lay the rib on any flat surface and flute no more than required to get to lay flat. Larry in Indiana, working on the fuselage brake pedals. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV7-List: To flute or not to flute > > W-408-1 L & R are the most inboard leading edge ribs, just outboard of the > tanks. They didn't come pre-punched in my kit. I'm not upset about that, > but I'm kind of confused about how to go about fluting those 2 ribs to > straighten them. > > On the emp, we had a fluting guide (a full-scale drawing) for all > non-pre-punched ribs, which showed the rivet pattern, and thus where to make > the flutes. > > Am I missing something essential on these 2 wing leading edge ribs...like a > fluting diagram somewhere? Or is it as simple as putting it up against the > next ribs over and just matching up the hole/fluting pattern? > > It's been a long, tiring week (work-wise, not building wise unfortunately) > and I apologize if this is a lame-ass question. 8 ) > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (wings) > dan @ rvproject . com > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: To flute or not to flute
Date: May 20, 2002
Dan, Dont fuss too much at this stage. The heavy undrilled ribs will form a 3 layer sandwich of inner rib, a joining plate that links leading edge and the tank, and the outer leading edge skin. When you get to cleco the whole deal mark the rivet points, flute between them, then drill & debur. Be very careful with the joining strip, it likes to slide around and also needs trimming. You will see what I mean when you get to put it together. This is one area where going slowly pays off. By the way the precision of the fluting of your wing ribs determines the ease of skin to fram mating at a later stage. I was given this tip by a RV6 builder (yes those dinosoars are still in production, so I went back and re-fluted to the very best standard I could. Even so I still cold hav epaid more attention to making sure the flanges are 90 degrees to the web. It paid off, all my skins went on first time, no trouble. The only oops was my first try to fit a skin went bad because the mid-span jak under the rear spar was not adjusted enough to take the sag out. After a bit of head scratching I just upped the jack and voila, perfect fit first time. Also I got mediocre riveting results on the first thick skin, and also on the curved leading edge skins, so I re-dimpled with tank dies, much better outcome. David Francis, VH-ZEE, wings, ailerons & flaps finished. - W-408-1 L & R are the most inboard leading edge ribs, just outboard of the tanks. They didn't come pre-punched in my kit. I'm not upset about that, but I'm kind of confused about how to go about fluting those 2 ribs to straighten them. _ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED: To flute or not to flute
Date: May 20, 2002
Dan, Dont fuss too much at this stage. The heavy undrilled ribs will form a 3 layer sandwich of inner rib, a joining plate that links leading edge and the tank, and the outer leading edge skin. When you get to cleco the whole deal mark the rivet points, flute between them, then drill & debur. Be very careful with the joining strip, it likes to slide around and also needs trimming. You will see what I mean when you get to put it together. This is one area where going slowly pays off. By the way the precision of the fluting of your wing ribs determines the ease of skin to fram mating at a later stage. I was given this tip by a RV6 builder (yes those dinosoars are still in production, so I went back and re-fluted to the very best standard I could. Even so I still cold hav epaid more attention to making sure the flanges are 90 degrees to the web. It paid off, all my skins went on first time, no trouble. The only oops was my first try to fit a skin went bad because the mid-span jak under the rear spar was not adjusted enough to take the sag out. After a bit of head scratching I just upped the jack and voila, perfect fit first time. Also I got mediocre riveting results on the first thick skin, so I re-dimpled with tank dies, much better on the thicker skins. David Francis, VH-ZEE, wings, ailerons & flaps finished. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] Subject: RV7-List: To flute or not to flute W-408-1 L & R are the most inboard leading edge ribs, just outboard of the tanks. They didn't come pre-punched in my kit. I'm not upset about that, but I'm kind of confused about how to go about fluting those 2 ribs to straighten them. On the emp, we had a fluting guide (a full-scale drawing) for all non-pre-punched ribs, which showed the rivet pattern, and thus where to make the flutes. Am I missing something essential on these 2 wing leading edge ribs...like a fluting diagram somewhere? Or is it as simple as putting it up against the next ribs over and just matching up the hole/fluting pattern? It's been a long, tiring week (work-wise, not building wise unfortunately) and I apologize if this is a lame-ass question. 8 ) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings) dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Huh?!
Date: May 20, 2002
I just got an RV-7 wing construction manual correction in the mail from Van's. Cool. As I looked at the figures at the end something caught my eye and made my heart drop... In Fig. 7-1, the doubler plate is obviously countersunk for flush rivets. But...on the plans, they specifically call for AN470 round-head rivets there! Now I'm freaking out a bit, because I don't quite know how the wing mates up to the fuselage and whether those rivets are indeed supposed to be flush! I obviously want to figure this out before I skin the wings. Can somebody out there please tell me that Figure 7-1 is misleading and that yes, we are supposed to have AN470 rivets attaching W-707D (doubler plate) and W-707G (doubler fork) to the rear spar?!? Patiently awaiting the doctors' diagnosis... )_( Dan dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2002
From: John Reuterskiold <mtnflyr(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: QB Rudder Pedal Brace Riveting Clearance
Any QB builders with a better solution than Van's for attaching the rudder brace to the firewall stiffner? My question to Vans: On an RV7 QB what is the recommended method of attaching F-6118 rudder pedal brace to F-601N-L firewall stiffener? The QB already has the F-601K-1 firewall recess riveted in place. There is insufficient clearance to insert the recommended rivet AN470AD4-5 let alone trying to get a bucking bar in between the stiffener and firewall recess. Vans Response: The best way to do it on the QBs is to drill through the angle, brace and recess and rivet it all together, using a spacer(s) to fill the remainder of the gap between the brace and recess. I personally don't like this soltion for a couple reasons; 1) I don't think the strength will be the same. 2) I don't want any more holes in the firewall than are absolutely necessary. 3) Its ugly. I am thinking of drilling out the rivets holding the recess, riveting in the brace, and then reriveting the recess. I am open to any other suggestions or ideas. Thanks John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: QB Rudder Pedal Brace Riveting Clearance
Date: May 22, 2002
I used this method because I wanted the box flanges on the cockpit side of the firewall (slow build). Others have used it because the box was already mounted, ala QB. To your points: 1) It's plenty strong. The brace will buckle and the nylon shear before the rivets let go. I can provide pictures. 2) You've already got a bazillion rivets in the firewall - what's 4 or 5 more? 3) There's only 4 or 5 rivets on the side of the recess. Use 1/8" round head rivets with mfgr head on firewall side and they look fine. They are in an area of the recess that is almost impossible to view once the engine is installed - particularly with a governor in the recess. You'll likely do more cosmetic damage if you try to remove and re-rivet the box. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > > Any QB builders with a better solution than Van's for attaching the > rudder brace to the firewall stiffner? > > My question to Vans: > On an RV7 QB what is the recommended method of attaching > F-6118 rudder > pedal brace to F-601N-L firewall stiffener? The QB already has the > F-601K-1 firewall recess riveted in place. There is insufficient > clearance to insert the recommended rivet AN470AD4-5 let > alone trying to > get a bucking bar in between the stiffener and firewall recess. > > Vans Response: > The best way to do it on the QBs is to drill through the angle, brace > and recess and rivet it all together, using a spacer(s) to fill the > remainder of the gap between the brace and recess. > > > I personally don't like this soltion for a couple reasons; 1) I don't > think the strength will be the same. 2) I don't want any more > holes in > the firewall than are absolutely necessary. 3) Its ugly. I > am thinking > of drilling out the rivets holding the recess, riveting in the brace, > and then reriveting the recess. I am open to any other > suggestions or > ideas. > > Thanks > John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)AOL.com
Date: May 22, 2002
Subject: Re: QB Rudder Pedal Brace Riveting Clearance
I plan to use heavy duty blind rivets. I called Van's, this was their suggestion. Bob Trumpfheller ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: TruTrak installation
Date: May 27, 2002
I just scanned in seven TruTrak installation diagrams: http://www.rvproject.com/trutrak.html I had been trying to figure out (by searching the archives) whether autopilot installation would be difficult after the wings have been completed. I just got the info pack from TruTrack on their RV-7 installation...and by the looks of it, the roll servo attaches using existing bellcrank bracket bolts. Looks like a couple of servo attach brackets just bolt on right there and no additional provisions have to be made to the main spar. I'm not positive about this, though. If anybody wants to confirm this, it'll etch in stone my decision to put off buying an autopilot until much later. I apologize if this has already been covered in the archives, but I couldn't find it. )_( Dan dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2002
Subject: [ Dale Larsen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dale Larsen <slickrock@been-there.com> Subject: Flap position indicator http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/slickrock@been-there.com.05.27.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2002
Subject: [ Dan Checkoway ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dan Checkoway Subject: TruTrak autopilot installation diagrams http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dan@rvproject.com.05.27.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2002
Subject: [ Gary Crowder ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Gary Crowder Subject: Manual trim cable mount http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv9er@3rivers.net.05.28.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2002
Subject: [ Kevin ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Kevin Subject: AK aug 2001 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv8r300@attbi.com.05.29.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Builder - Maybe?
Date: Jun 02, 2002
From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand(at)strandcentral.com>
Hello, I am considering the purchase of an RV-7A kit in the near future. This week I am going to Vans for a factory tour and test flight, and then onto California for an EAA building class. Is there anything I should "be sure to ask" about during either the tour or class? I love flying and love to build stuff, so this seems like a good fit. My wife convinced me to wait until the class is over; to be sure this is something that we both want to do. Any helpful hint, suggestions, tips, etc.., would be greatly appreciated!!! -Ted Strand- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2002
Subject: Re: New Builder - Maybe?
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 6/1/02 11:30 PM, Ted Strand at tstrand(at)strandcentral.com wrote: > > Hello, > > I am considering the purchase of an RV-7A kit in the near future. This > week I am going to Vans for a factory tour and test flight, and then > onto California for an EAA building class. Is there anything I should > "be sure to ask" about during either the tour or class? I love flying > and love to build stuff, so this seems like a good fit. My wife > convinced me to wait until the class is over; to be sure this is > something that we both want to do. > > Any helpful hint, suggestions, tips, etc.., would be greatly > appreciated!!! > > -Ted Strand- > > > > > > > > Hi Ted & List If you haven't already gathered your tools up yet, one tool I would look for would be a pneumatic hammer gun that allows you to grip close to the end with the trigger right there. It would allow you to operate it with one hand easier. If they make such a tool, I haven't looked myself for one I'll live with tools I have. I have made some of my own tools fairly easy. Fluting, dimpling tools and a attachment for the table saw for sanding. Scott Trask Working on Fuselage Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: New Builder - Maybe?
Date: Jun 02, 2002
I did the same thing...waited until after the SportAir workshop to see if building was something I was up to. It was, and it will be for you, too. You *will* end up getting hooked. May as well order the empennage now so that once you're rip-raring to go, you have less of a wait for the kit. In the words of Hans and Frans...hear me now and believe me later... 8 ) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand(at)strandcentral.com> Subject: RV7-List: New Builder - Maybe? > > Hello, > > I am considering the purchase of an RV-7A kit in the near future. This > week I am going to Vans for a factory tour and test flight, and then > onto California for an EAA building class. Is there anything I should > "be sure to ask" about during either the tour or class? I love flying > and love to build stuff, so this seems like a good fit. My wife > convinced me to wait until the class is over; to be sure this is > something that we both want to do. > > Any helpful hint, suggestions, tips, etc.., would be greatly > appreciated!!! > > -Ted Strand- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Tank Z brackets question
Date: Jun 02, 2002
Ok, I'm a little confused...I'm getting started building the tanks, and I'm about to drill the Z brackets (talking about an RV-7 here). I understand the process Van's outlines, and I think it's pretty lame, since there's no guarantee that once the tanks are completed that the #12 holes in the Z brackets will align perfectly with the spar holes...and there's no guarantee that the tank will align perfectly with the outboard skin or the holes in the spar. That's fine, I'm scrapping Van's instructions and I'm going with the approach that Steve Hurlbut outlines: http://checkoway.com/url/?s=c9bc2576 That seems to be the most logical approach for getting it perfect. BUT... What's the deal with the root Z bracket? There's absolutely nothing in Van's instructions about this (at least that I could find). Apparently, it never gets drilled. 8 ) And what's the deal with nutplates for that root Z bracket? My spar came pre-drilled for nutplates to mount on the aft side of the spar (it seems), but again there are no instructions. I'm happy to fill in the blanks and make some logical assumptions here, but I wanted to check with other builders first... I'm planning on installing nutplates on the aft side of the spar and drilling the root Z bracket just like the others. Right?! I must be missing something... )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com
Date: Jun 03, 2002
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/02/02
In a message dated 6/2/02 11:55:45 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << I am considering the purchase of an RV-7A kit in the near future. This week I am going to Vans for a factory tour and test flight, and then onto California for an EAA building class. Is there anything I should "be sure to ask" about during either the tour or class? I love flying and love to build stuff, so this seems like a good fit. My wife convinced me to wait until the class is over; to be sure this is something that we both want to do. Any helpful hint, suggestions, tips, etc.., would be greatly appreciated!!! >> I have nothing but admiration and awe for folks who manage to build one of these things in the "slo-build" mode while balancing the needs of a wife, family, and profession. I am retired, with the kids grown up, the wife fully on board with the process and building a "Quickbuild" 6a. I'm just closing in on 1300 hours with it and anticipate the airframe will be done in another 2-300 hours. I've been told I will be half done at that point. Of course, I'm counting "noodling" time, watching the video, re-reading the plans/manual, etc. The next one :-) will be done in less than half that time, but still quite a time and money commitment. That's the bad news. The good news that gets me to the garage 35 hours a week is what I will be flying when I get done, probably the sweetest flying, best looking sport plane on the planet! So.... Rivet On!!!! Jerry Cochran ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: protective barrier skin cream?
Date: Jun 10, 2002
Can anybody out there recommend a protective barrier cream for your skin (human skin, not RV skin)? I've seen several products at this point and I'm swimming in confusion over which ones actually protect you from harsh elements (i.e. ProSeal, etc.) and which ones are just dirt & grime barriers. Gloves in a Bottle? West Systems 831? Debba? Any advice is appreciated... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (tanks) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2002
From: Harold Roman <haroldroman00(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: bigger rudder
I just received the RV7 study plans last night. There were revisions included that seem to change the rudder so that it is about 2 1/2 inches longer (wider). I remember reading in the last RVator newsletter that Vans had some concerns about the RV7's spin recovery. I guess it wasn't exactly a problem, but it wasn't as good as expected. The possible fix was to make the rudder bigger. So, does anyone out there know, is the bigger rudder the fix for the spin recovery issue? Or is it going to become bigger yet again? ++Harold --------------------------------- Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: bigger rudder
Hi Harold, Sorry, I posted this to the RV-List and should have copied the RV-7 list too. The short answer is yes, the larger rudder is the fix for the spin recovery issue. For more details read on below: --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior I can confirm some of this and add a little more: At the Langley (CYNJ) RV-Fly-In on Saturday of this weekend, we had Gus Funnel from Vans up in the Factory RV-7. It had the stock tail on it. Gus sat in on a seminar on RV-building, to answer questions, and at the end asked if anyone was interested in an RV-7 Spin/Stall update. He went into the background of the problem in a little more detail, which i'll try to summarize. Apparently the RV-6, when spun, will recover from a 6+ turn spin in 1.5 turns from application of recovery inputs. Apparently the Aerobatic "requirement" is that an aircraft recover in 1.25 turns, but Van decided that the 1.5 turns was something they could live with. When they tested the -6 with the -7 mods, it also recovered in 1.5 turns, so they figured they were okay. Now that they're testing the real -7, though, they found that it takes almost 2 turns to recover from a 6+ turn spin. Van decided that that was a little higher than he was comfortable with, and that he would prefer to see a larger rudder, with faster recovery. So while the only issue is with the speed of recovery from spins, Van will still be recommending that anyone who does not install the new rudder placard the aircraft in such a way that Aerobatics are Prohibited. The solution is a new rudder. It will be larger, like the -9. It will also be of the -9 design, ie. the trailing edge is double-flush riveted, and not folded (the two skins come together and sandwich a triangular extrusion to keep the shape). It will be the only control surface on the aircraft built in this manner. Gus went on to say that they would be sending new tails to all -7 builders at no cost. I'll have to check on how easy it will be for me to bring the new parts into Canada at "no cost", but... -Rob Prior rv7 "at" b4.ca RV-7 Empennage (but haven't built the rudder yet... 8-) Dwight Frye wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > > On Sun Jun 9 12:23:00 2002, Steven Eberhart wrote : > >>According to the Second Issue, 2002 RVator the spin tests performed on the >>RV-7 demonstrator meet FAA requirements for standard category aircraft but >>not for aerobatic category [:-(] THe article ended saying that they were >>going to try a larger rudder. Guess the RV-9 rudder is larger than the >>RV-7 rudder. >> >>Wonder what Van's position is going to be on replacement rudders? THe >>aerobatic capabilities was the main reason I chose the RV-7 over the RV-9. >> > > I was in the Portland area last week, and (along with other activities) > stopped in by the factory. Since the whole RV-7 rudder thing had been > under discussion, I asked the guy at the factory what the deal might be > and he filled me in on that details. > > They did the spin testing with the RV-9 rudder (which is definitely a > larger rudder), and found that the spin characteristics were more to their > liking. He informed me that the plan was to ship ALL builders of RV-7s new > rudder kits, starting with folks who had already gotten their finishing > kits (assuming they would be in the greatest need, and closest to flying) > and then working down the list of builders until everyone had a replacement. > The intent (as I understood it) was to provide the new rudders free of charge, > and that there was no need to get on a list because they were going to ship > everyone a replacement automatically. > > Mind you, this is just what I was told verbally, and details _may_ change > by the time they get an official announcement out. However, the details as > they were relayed to me sounded pretty firm. > > Given that the original rudder was not a _dangerous_ design, but simply > not quite what Van had wanted to see in terms of spin behavior, their making > the choice to ship us all replacements is fantastic. Also, given that the > don't recommend spins in the -7, (nor did they in the -6 either, and never > intended to recommend intentional spins) it could be argued that they didn't > need to go the extra mile on this issue. But, it seems they have made the > choice to go that extra mile, and I for one, appreciate their commitment > to providing the airplane we all expect ... even if there are bumps in the > road to achieving that. > > -- Dwight (old rudder parts on the shelf, working on elevators, > with wing kit inventoried and shelved too ... ) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: engine questions
Date: Jun 13, 2002
I have come across an engine/prop that may work with the -7a that I'm building. I'm not engine literate at all and need help in the questions I should be asking and getting a feel for the fair market value. Here's the scoop Engine is a IO-360 A3B6D TTSN 3016 TSOH 1141.5 came out of a money that was up grading Prop is a McCauley c/s new still in box. Both were being set up for a GP-4 project before the owner passed away. Logs are available. Thanks for your help Wayne in Southern Alberta RV -7a fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: engine questions
On the engine, Van's has a list of engines that wont work/fit. It is a angle valve head right? The prop, I would call the manufacture because alot of props are aircraft specific. > >I have come across an engine/prop that may work with the -7a that I'm >building. I'm not engine literate at all and need help in the questions I >should be asking and getting a feel for the fair market value. Here's the >scoop > > Engine is a IO-360 A3B6D TTSN 3016 TSOH 1141.5 came out of a money that >was up grading > > Prop is a McCauley c/s new still in box. > >Both were being set up for a GP-4 project before the owner passed away. >Logs are available. > >Thanks for your help > >Wayne in Southern Alberta >RV -7a fuse > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: engine questions
Date: Jun 13, 2002
Just a very minor thing about that engine model... This might not apply, but if the engine was originally an A1B6D, you should have the logbook entry which shows it was converted to A3B6D (re-indexing the prop flange bushings) as per service bulletin M20-206. Not sure if you'd ever need that proof, but it couldn't hurt to have it. Again, this only applies if the engine was originally an A1B6D. If you want a copy of the M20-206 service bulletin, here you go: http://www.m20j.com/pdfs/service_bulletins/sbm20-206.pdf A former Mooney owner... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (tanks) dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com> Subject: RV7-List: engine questions > > I have come across an engine/prop that may work with the -7a that I'm > building. I'm not engine literate at all and need help in the questions I > should be asking and getting a feel for the fair market value. Here's the > scoop > > Engine is a IO-360 A3B6D TTSN 3016 TSOH 1141.5 came out of a money that > was up grading > > Prop is a McCauley c/s new still in box. > > Both were being set up for a GP-4 project before the owner passed away. > Logs are available. > > Thanks for your help > > Wayne in Southern Alberta > RV -7a fuse > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: engine questions
Date: Jun 13, 2002
If it came off a Mooney, that McCauley prop is 99.9999% sure to be certified for either the A1B6 or A3B6 series, D (dual single-drive mag) or not. That McCauley prop tends to be quieter than the square-tip Hartzell in my opinion. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski(at)qcpi.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: engine questions > > On the engine, Van's has a list of engines that wont work/fit. It is a > angle valve head right? > The prop, I would call the manufacture because alot of props are aircraft > specific. > > > > > >I have come across an engine/prop that may work with the -7a that I'm > >building. I'm not engine literate at all and need help in the questions I > >should be asking and getting a feel for the fair market value. Here's the > >scoop > > > > Engine is a IO-360 A3B6D TTSN 3016 TSOH 1141.5 came out of a money that > >was up grading > > > > Prop is a McCauley c/s new still in box. > > > >Both were being set up for a GP-4 project before the owner passed away. > >Logs are available. > > > >Thanks for your help > > > >Wayne in Southern Alberta > >RV -7a fuse > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 8220 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2002
From: Vince Orton <vorton(at)pacstates.com>
Subject: Need Help Checking Out An RV7 Kit In Mississippi
Is there anyone out there in Mississippi that could check out a kit-in-progress for me? I'm trying to pick up an RV-7 project, but cannot get there to check it out beforehand. I'd rather not buy it COMPLETELY sight-unseen. Having another builder look it over first would really help out. We're arranging delivery for the weekend of June 22, so I'd like to get it checked, say, before the 18th or 19th. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Any other ideas would be appreciated as well. (No digital camera available) Thanks, -Vince -- Vince Orton About to start an RV-7A ... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2002
Subject: Re: protective barrier skin cream?
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 6/11/02 1:02 AM, Dan Checkoway at dan(at)rvproject.com wrote: > > Can anybody out there recommend a protective barrier cream for your skin > (human skin, not RV skin)? > > I've seen several products at this point and I'm swimming in confusion over > which ones actually protect you from harsh elements (i.e. ProSeal, etc.) and > which ones are just dirt & grime barriers. > > Gloves in a Bottle? > West Systems 831? > Debba? > > Any advice is appreciated... > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (tanks) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > > > > > Hi Dan I used rubber gloves with some solvent in a can to clean the rubber gloves off when they got full of pro-seal. What's fun is when you go to get a rivet and about 20 rivets stick to your finger. If you get some on your hands it will come off. Scott Trask ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2002
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-7/7A Rudder
No need to rely on hearsay. If you haven't see the service bulletin, go here: http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: protective barrier skin cream?
Date: Jun 14, 2002
Dan, I just used cheap disposable plastic gloves. When rivetting they have a life of about 30 minutes at which point I chuck them away. Proseal is like bad news and taxes, it penetrates into places you cannot imagine. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE, wings finished, fuselage growing in the bank account. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Trask [mailto:sctrask(at)diisd.org] Subject: Re: RV7-List: protective barrier skin cream? on 6/11/02 1:02 AM, Dan Checkoway at dan(at)rvproject.com wrote: > > Can anybody out there recommend a protective barrier cream for your skin > (human skin, not RV skin)? > > > > Any advice is appreciated... > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (tanks) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > > > > > Hi Dan I used rubber gloves with some solvent in a can to clean the rubber gloves off when they got full of pro-seal. What's fun is when you go to get a rivet and about 20 rivets stick to your finger. If you get some on your hands it will come off. Scott Trask ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2002
Subject: [ Fabian Lefler ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Fabian Lefler Subject: Compressor-Tool Bench http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/FLEFLER@broward.org.06.13.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Browsing Feature!
Dear Listers, I thought I'd post a little reminder to everyone about a very slick feature of the email Lists here at Matronics. You can now use Netscape or Internet Explorer to browse the current messages on your favorite List! The List Browse Function tracks the current 7 day's worth of List messages for any given List. Indexes are updated every 30 minutes with new messages that have been posted. You can resort the message indexes by Thread, Subject, Author, or Date and easily track and find current threads. A number of List members have written to say that they love the List Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages throughout the day without having to constantly check their email or wait for the Digest issue to come out. You can check out the List Browse Feature by going to the following URL and clicking on the List of your choice: http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse Enjoy! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Keith Bedell" <bedelk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: XDP4000X-List: unhappy
Date: Jun 14, 2002
All- I hooked up my xdp-4000x and it sounds like crap. I ordered the necessary cable from online and tried to tune it, but it just got worse. Is there something missing htat I need to do to get it to work. When I bypass it with rca splitters the res of my system works like a charm. I have the 6001ES running three 10' ES subs. Then 2 1805 ES's handling everything else. Aside from the problems with the 4x, there is a huge disparity between cd volume and radio volume. I mean huge!!!. I can max out radio volume and it sounds ok, then pop in a cd and half way blows mee out of the cab. Any ideas, I anm just so dissapointed right now.... From: Matt Dralle <DRALLE(at)MATRONICS.COM> Reply-To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com To: Email-Lists(at)matronics.com Subject: XDP4000X-List: List Browsing Feature! Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:52:33 -0700 -- XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, I thought I'd post a little reminder to everyone about a very slick feature of the email Lists here at Matronics. You can now use Netscape or Internet Explorer to browse the current messages on your favorite List! The List Browse Function tracks the current 7 day's worth of List messages for any given List. Indexes are updated every 30 minutes with new messages that have been posted. You can resort the message indexes by Thread, Subject, Author, or Date and easily track and find current threads. A number of List members have written to say that they love the List Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages throughout the day without having to constantly check their email or wait for the Digest issue to come out. You can check out the List Browse Feature by going to the following URL and clicking on the List of your choice: http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse Enjoy! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2002
From: DavidAWilks(at)AOL.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/13/02
I would like to invite all RV builders, flyers and Enthusiasts to our November 15-17 Fly-In!! I am hosting this event in the name of FUN!! The host airport is Galveston, Texas at the Lonestar Flight Museum. Come join the fun and enter the show. Local EAA chapters will be making Young Eagle flights throughout the day. Phillips 66 fuel rebates and local fuel pricing will be in effect for all flyers. Saturday night we will host a banquet inside the Lonestar Flight Museum. Nothing better than dancing the night away with history surrounding us. For more information and a list of all the historic tour sites, please view our website. http://www.davidawilks.com/fly-in Hope to see you there!! David Wilks 832-282-4004 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2002
From: henry kinney <henrykinney(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Need Help Checking Out An RV7 Kit In Mississippi
I live in Pass Christian Mississippi on the Gulf Coast. If I can help Vince Orton check on his kit please e mail me directly. --- Vince Orton wrote: > > > Is there anyone out there in Mississippi that could > check out a > kit-in-progress for me? I'm trying to pick up an > RV-7 project, but > cannot get there to check it out beforehand. I'd > rather not buy it > COMPLETELY sight-unseen. Having another builder > look it over first > would really help out. > > We're arranging delivery for the weekend of June 22, > so I'd like to get > it checked, say, before the 18th or 19th. Any help > would be GREATLY > appreciated. > > Any other ideas would be appreciated as well. (No > digital camera > available) > > Thanks, > -Vince > > -- > Vince Orton > About to start an RV-7A ... > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Henry W. Kinney 4395 Menge Ave. Pass Christian, Mississippi 39571 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Wing skin scarf joint
Date: Jun 21, 2002
I've read the archives about how to file down the top wing skins to flatten the overlapping scarf joint...and the only thing I came up with was either using a bastard file or a 5" disc sander. But it doesn't say which surface(s) to file... Can somebody who has does this successfully give me some advice on this process? I'm curious if I should file the underlapping skin only on the top, and file the overlapping skin only on the bottom, etc. Kind of curious...I'm probably over-thinking this, but I'd love some feedback. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D tanks dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing skin scarf joint
Dan I shaved, I guess is the proper term, Both of the skins the top of the bottom one and the bottom of the top skin that overlaps about 2 inches wide and 5 or 6 inches down the joint. I used a heavy rasp or file then sanded and scotch bite to smooth it back up. This is just to get a better airflow over the leading edge of the beginning of the joint. Its not very scientific as to how much. I just cut some til it looked good. I would stay away from the power tools. there will still be a slight mismatch. Only way to get by this is to use a one piece top skin. cary rhodes fuse --- Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > I've read the archives about how to file down the > top wing skins to flatten > the overlapping scarf joint...and the only thing I > came up with was either > using a bastard file or a 5" disc sander. But it > doesn't say which > surface(s) to file... > > Can somebody who has does this successfully give me > some advice on this > process? I'm curious if I should file the > underlapping skin only on the > top, and file the overlapping skin only on the > bottom, etc. Kind of > curious...I'm probably over-thinking this, but I'd > love some feedback. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D tanks > dan @ rvproject . com > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: tank cradle orientation while riveting
Date: Jun 27, 2002
I want to get some advice on riveting the tank ribs. What's the most ideal way of orienting the cradle while riveting? With the leading edge (riveting from trailing to leading edge), it was easy...I screwed it down vertically (normal) to my bench, we riveted from the trailing edge "forward" (down), and when we got to where the curve was too sharp for the rivet gun to have decent access (after having riveted most of both sides), I took the ldg edge out of the cradle and laid it down flat on the bench, riveting the rest with the ldg edge horizontal and "free". Since the tank ribs are supposed to be riveted from the leading edge to the trailing edge, I can't do that...gotta start with the tough access angle. What do you guys recommend to make this easier? Use a cradle "tall" enough so that even when screwed down you have decent access to the leading edge rivets? Just curious, )_( Dan dan at rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: flop tube anti hang-up strips
Date: Jun 27, 2002
Today I tried to determine if the flop tube anti hang-up strips are really necessary as Van's plans very vaguely suggests. I attached the flop tube and rotated the tank around, trying to get the tube to get hung up. As hard as I tried, the tube wouldn't get caught anywhere, and it definitely doesn't go anywhere near the trap door. I riveted a "chafe strip" over the inspection hole, but that's all I'm planning on doing. Pictures of my trials and tribulations: http://www.rvproject.com/20020627.html Can anybody corroborate this approach? Or, if you have a good reason why I should do anything additional (like the little diagonal stiffener to 2nd rib strip that the plans "hint" at), please let me know before I start sealing/riveting ribs... 8 ) Thanks, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (tanks) dan at rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2002
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
Subject: Autopilot for RV6A
I am seeking opinions on two-axis autopilots (roll & pitch) for an RV6A. I have looked at the S-Tec and TruTrak systems. Both are costly. Are there other two-axis autopilots which are less expensive and work well? I have also looked at the Navaid which is a single axis (roll) unit. It is reasonably priced for single axis unit. Does anyone have experience with the EZ-Trim pitch control unit? Perhaps it could be used with the Navaid to give 2 axis functionality? Roger Crandell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Autopilot for RV6A
Date: Jun 28, 2002
You could make your own using gyro's and servo's from R/c airplanes. The airplanes known as "Scale Models" have devices that would work. I have a freind in my EAA chapter building a sonex doing what I just told you but he knows how to program it etc... IF you woudl liek I could have him e-mail you. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Crandell" <rwc(at)swcp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Autopilot for RV6A > > I am seeking opinions on two-axis autopilots (roll & pitch) for an > RV6A. I have looked at the S-Tec and TruTrak systems. Both are > costly. Are there other two-axis autopilots which are less expensive > and work well? I have also looked at the Navaid which is a single axis > (roll) unit. It is reasonably priced for single axis unit. Does anyone > have experience with the EZ-Trim pitch control unit? Perhaps it could > be used with the Navaid to give 2 axis functionality? > > Roger Crandell > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: tank cradle orientation while riv
eting
Date: Jul 01, 2002
Dan, You only need two supporting female rib shaped supports for the tank. Clamp them to two saw horses. Put the tank in nose down and move the two saw horses around to get access to the lines of rivets as required. Its easy. Start from the middle rib and move outwards. Think out the access sequence carefully becuase you still need to run the vent line before closing the end ribs. Think carefully about the sequence for the nose reinforcements for the two outer ribs. Also also think the sequence for the tank filler. Have fun with the proseal. Regards, David Francis, Canberra Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV7-List: tank cradle orientation while riveting I want to get some advice on riveting the tank ribs. What's the most ideal way of orienting the cradle while riveting? With the leading edge (riveting from trailing to leading edge), it was easy...I screwed it down vertically (normal) to my bench, we riveted from the trailing edge "forward" (down), and when we got to where the curve was too sharp for the rivet gun to have decent access (after having riveted most of both sides), I took the ldg edge out of the cradle and laid it down flat on the bench, riveting the rest with the ldg edge horizontal and "free". Since the tank ribs are supposed to be riveted from the leading edge to the trailing edge, I can't do that...gotta start with the tough access angle. What do you guys recommend to make this easier? Use a cradle "tall" enough so that even when screwed down you have decent access to the leading edge rivets? Just curious, )_( Dan dan at rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Landing lights
Date: Jul 01, 2002
Anyone ever consider putting the landing lights in the lower engine cowl instead of the wing? I'm just thinking about it and if anyone else has done it or tried I'd like to hear their thoughts. My Cessna has them there and they work fine. John canopy N557RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Landing lights
Date: Jul 01, 2002
We (TruTrak flight systems) have an RV-9A, and our landing light is in the lower left cowling. Seems to work great. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Adams" <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com> Subject: RV7-List: Landing lights > > Anyone ever consider putting the landing lights in the lower engine cowl > instead of the wing? I'm just thinking about it and if anyone else has done > it or tried I'd like to hear their thoughts. My Cessna has them there and > they work fine. > John > canopy N557RV > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Landing lights
Date: Jul 02, 2002
John, Putting lights in the engine cowl is not regarded well my maintenance folks. Cessna and Piper do it, and are not thanked for the outcome. Consider: a. vibration and heat of the engine bay shorten the life if the fragile light filament. b. every time you take the cowls off you have to make and break an electrical connection for the power supply, and because the cowl is fibreglass, another for the ground. c. the light takes up space in a closely cowled engine space. d. you will have to make up your own mounting bracket on surfaces which bend in 3 dimensions, in contrast the Duckworks kit has already solved the mounting problem for you. David Francis, Canberra, Australia, VH-ZEE, with lights in the wing tips. -----Original Message----- From: John Adams [mailto:jadams(at)scoutmedical.com] Subject: RV7-List: Landing lights Anyone ever consider putting the landing lights in the lower engine cowl instead of the wing? I'm just thinking about it and if anyone else has done it or tried I'd like to hear their thoughts. My Cessna has them there and they work fine. John canopy N557RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: F 715 fit
Date: Jul 02, 2002
Any suggestions on how to make the F 715 rib follow the contour of the bottom skin. Seems to want to buckle on me. Thanks Wayne in Southern Alberta RV 7a Fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: F 715 fit
Date: Jul 02, 2002
Mark a center line on F715. Then flute as needed and it will fit. That is how I did it. Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com> Subject: RV7-List: F 715 fit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Four New Email Lists At Matronics!!
Dear Listers, I've just added four new email Lists to the current lineup at Matronics. These new lists include: KRNet: krnet-List(at)matronics.com The RANS KR1 and KR2 Series Cub: cub-List(at)matronics.com The Piper J-3 Cub RV10: rv10-List(at)matronics.com The New 4-place RV from Van's! Europa: europa(at)matronics.com The Slick European Composite All the usual features are available with the new Lists including the search engine, archive download, 7-day List browse, and PhotoShare! To sign up for any or all of the new lists, please go to the List Subscription page and put in your email address and select the Lists of your choice. The URL for the Subscription page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscibe Don't forget that its your posts that generate traffic on the respective Lists! Post an introduction and a description of your project or dreams! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [With Good URL This Time!] Four New Email Lists At Matronics!!
[Typo in the subscribe page URL last time - SORRY! -Matt] Dear Listers, I've just added four new email Lists to the current lineup at Matronics. These new lists include: KRNet: krnet-List(at)matronics.com The RANS KR1 and KR2 Series Cub: cub-List(at)matronics.com The Piper J-3 Cub RV10: rv10-List(at)matronics.com The New 4-place RV from Van's! Europa: europa(at)matronics.com The Slick European Composite All the usual features are available with the new Lists including the search engine, archive download, 7-day List browse, and PhotoShare! To sign up for any or all of the new lists, please go to the List Subscription page and put in your email address and select the Lists of your choice. The URL for the Subscription page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Don't forget that its your posts that generate traffic on the respective Lists! Post an introduction and a description of your project or dreams! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Floor Stiffeners
Date: Jul 06, 2002
I am about ready to install the floor stiffeners in my RV7. There is an offset pressed into one end of the stiffeners that I received in my kit. It seems that this end goes toward the firewall (as best as I can tell anyway). Do I need to put this little offset in the other end of the stiffener and if so how is the best way to go about it? If not how do I attach the stiffeners to the F-704 bulkhead without there being a big gap between the stiffeners and the bottom skin? Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) http://www.myrv7.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Floor Stiffeners
Date: Jul 06, 2002
I installed shims b/t all 772B and 772 skin in first hole nearest 704 blkhd to smooth the transition. I also installed a shim b/t 601J and 772B-R/L to make that solid. Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> > I am about ready to install the floor stiffeners in my RV7. There is an > offset pressed into one end of the stiffeners that I received in my kit. It > seems that this end goes toward the firewall (as best as I can tell anyway). > Do I need to put this little offset in the other end of the stiffener and if > so how is the best way to go about it? If not how do I attach the > stiffeners to the F-704 bulkhead without there being a big gap between the > stiffeners and the bottom skin? > > Godspeed, > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marty" <mkwitek(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: First Milestone
Date: Jul 07, 2002
I have been a LURKER! I admit it. But I have now completed a milestone and wish to come out of the hanger. My Horizontal Stabilizer is hanging on the wall. The VS is in the jig and I will rivit skins today. Maybe I really can build an airplane. Marty Kwitek Green Bay, WI Emp - VS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2002
Subject: [ Patty Gillies ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Patty Gillies Subject: Fuel Selector Plate (labeling) http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: DON'T DO THIS! (and a fuel drain question)
Date: Jul 08, 2002
First the fuel drain question...I installed the drain in my first fuel tank by basically tightening the crap out of it. It still stands out more than I would have expected: http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020708_drain.jpg Is this normal? I assume so, but let me know so I can sleep better. Ok, now for the "DON'T DO THIS" column for the day. I'm installing flop tubes in my tanks, and a few weeks ago I fabricated and drilled the attach angle for my first tank. The plans didn't really say much about the flop tube installation or where exactly to drill the six rivet holes to attach the angle to the inboard rib. The plans just kind of *suggest* where they should go. So I drilled 'em where it looked right, and where it looked like there was good clearance and all that. Well, today I went to actually rivet and seal the sucker on there, and check out what I found: http://www.rvproject.com/20020708.html The rivets totally interfered with the flop tube fitting nut! Dang! Well, I thought I was going to have to leave those holes and drill two new ones, just filling the gaping holes with Proseal. That would suck. I'm sure it would seal, but it would be ugly and lurking in the back of my mind. But after a few minutes of cursing and brainstorming, I realized that I could countersink those holes and use AN426AD4-7 flush head rivets in there...and that's what I ended up doing. It all worked out, but the moral of the story is: TAKE CARE when drilling those rivet holes!!! Think before you drill! Ok, enough from me... )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Heinrich Gerhardt" <hgerhardt(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: IO-360 exhaust
Date: Jul 08, 2002
For sale: Van's (Vetterman) exhaust system for RV-7/7A with IO-360 200HP. Brand new. Bolted it up to my engine and found it hits the cowl. (I'm building a -6 with IO-360.) Van's is backordered right now, and I'll sell you mine for what Van's sells it for ($720), but with free shipping. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 09, 2002
Subject: Re: DON'T DO THIS! (and a fuel drain question)
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 7/8/02 6:56 PM, Dan Checkoway at dan(at)rvproject.com wrote: > > First the fuel drain question...I installed the drain in my first fuel tank > by basically tightening the crap out of it. It still stands out more than I > would have expected: > Hi Dan I didn't like it on my ether. What I did I ran a pipe tap through it, cut the threats a little deeper. Just make sure that your starting from the right side. I almost made that mistake. Had it in the vise started to tap it from the wrong side. But I stop before I when to deep. Scott Trask (fuselage) IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Fuse Jig for RV-8
I have a good fuse jig which has now built 2 fuse's. It has been cut in half for easy moving and set up to be bolted back together. it will now eaisly fit into the back of a pickup. I am located in San Diego, anyone interested let me know. Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2002
Subject: [ Bob Paulovich ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bob Paulovich Subject: Fatal RV Crash http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Bobpaulo@aol.com.07.12.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Jig for RV-8
Date: Jul 12, 2002
Scott, How was building the fuse? Would you say the jig is necessary, just helpful, or irrelevant? I was planning on using sawhorses since that's what I heard works with the RV-7 fuse, but I'm curious what your thoughts are. Did you end up settling on a powerplant? Sounds like you'll be flying soon if you're already finishing. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski(at)qcpi.com> Subject: RV7-List: Fuse Jig for RV-8 > > I have a good fuse jig which has now built 2 fuse's. It has been cut in > half for easy moving and set up to be bolted back together. it will now > eaisly fit into the back of a pickup. I am located in San Diego, anyone > interested let me know. > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 8220 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Jig for RV-8
OOOps. Posted to the 7 board should have been to the 8 board. Other than that I like the jig because it is very solid and nothing is going to move. On the 7 I have no idea. Should be flying the first quarter of next year. Power plant O-360-B1B with 9:1 pistons dual electroinc iginition and Air Flow Performance injection with Superior Air parts Sump for better flow, and its tuned. 200 HP I hope. > >Scott, > >How was building the fuse? Would you say the jig is necessary, just >helpful, or irrelevant? I was planning on using sawhorses since that's what >I heard works with the RV-7 fuse, but I'm curious what your thoughts are. > >Did you end up settling on a powerplant? Sounds like you'll be flying soon >if you're already finishing. > >)_( Dan > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski(at)qcpi.com> >To: >Subject: RV7-List: Fuse Jig for RV-8 > > >> >> I have a good fuse jig which has now built 2 fuse's. It has been cut in >> half for easy moving and set up to be bolted back together. it will now >> eaisly fit into the back of a pickup. I am located in San Diego, anyone >> interested let me know. >> >> >> Scott Bilinski >> Eng dept 8220 >> Phone (858) 657-2536 >> Pager (858) 502-5190 >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: TCDS
Date: Jul 16, 2002
Somebody on a local email list was looking for a detail about a particular model Lycoming engine. That got me thinking about this and I downloaded the TCDS from the FAA for the most common certified engines and props for RVs. In case you need more specs than you know what to do with, I figured I'd forward this link to some of the "big" lists: http://www.rvproject.com/tcds/ Enjoy... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2002
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Matchdrill hole question
I just finished "drilling the HS" section. I noticed one area where matchdrilling didn't work out perfectly. Not bad, but I want to know of others experienced the same outcome after clecoing stuff together. Please refer to this photo: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jgburns/emp_HS_right_drilling_complete.html Note the cleco installed in the matchdrilled hole that goes through HS-405 and HS-702 (rib and front spar respectively). The matchdrilled hole through the 601PP skin ended up within a 1/2 diameter of the flange edge in HS-405 (aft) rib. I think this was the case for the left HS assembly, definately on the right side as you may be able to see (I didn't take this photo with that concern in mind, but show my progress). Anybody else out there notice that? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Matchdrill hole question
Date: Jul 18, 2002
Hi John, This sort of mismatch does occasionally occur. Things to look for if you spot it - is the piece straight and well supported? Can some fluting cure it? Are the flanges at 90 degrees to each other, a bend might fix it. I spotted this problem trying to fit a wing skin to the wing frame. After a lot of head scratching and threats to use a mechanical persuader I woke up that the jack stopping the wing from sagging had backed off. Easy to fix, felt like a dummy, but nobody was watching. Riveting pulls things together with high pressure, you can simulate this by using wingnut clecos. These things grip like a randy whatsit on Saturday night. If all else fails and a normal sized drill gives an oval hole, then start drilling oversize. A little bit oversize, use a longer rivet and fatten it up in a squeezer to prevent bending, insert and drive it. If you need to go bigger to get a round hole, then go up to the next size rivet. If the problem is a hole too close to an edge, as long as surrounding rivets are all acceptable, then accept it. If there is room you can choose to reinforce it by installing an additional rivet either side to take the load and reduce the propensity for the edge rivet to put a crack in the flange. These structures are remarkably robust when riveted. Thats why we are still using this method after 70 years of development. Hope this helps, David Francis, VH-ZEE, wings finished, fuselage growing in the bank account. -----Original Message----- From: John Burns [mailto:jgburns(at)comcast.net] Subject: RV7-List: Matchdrill hole question I just finished "drilling the HS" section. I noticed one area where matchdrilling didn't work out perfectly. Not bad, but I want to know of others experienced the same outcome after clecoing stuff together. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AEIO-360-A1E6 vs. IO-360-A1B6
Date: Jul 27, 2002
Brand new 200hp AEIO-360-A1E6 from Aircraft Spruce = $28,995 Brand new 200hp IO-360-A1B6 from Van's Aircraft = $31,300 Hm...can any experts out there tell me what the major differences are? Engine mount compatibility? Is there anything about the AEIO that's generally a negative attribute for normal, non-aerobatic operation? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok(at)eee.org>
Subject: AEIO-360-A1E6 vs. IO-360-A1B6
Date: Jul 27, 2002
Don't know about technical differences. But do you have to pay state taxes if you buy an engine from Van's (Oregon) as opposed to Aircraft Spruce? I'd like to know the answer to this one myself. Anybody? Pete Krok -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV7-List: AEIO-360-A1E6 vs. IO-360-A1B6 Brand new 200hp AEIO-360-A1E6 from Aircraft Spruce = $28,995 Brand new 200hp IO-360-A1B6 from Van's Aircraft = $31,300 Hm...can any experts out there tell me what the major differences are? Engine mount compatibility? Is there anything about the AEIO that's generally a negative attribute for normal, non-aerobatic operation? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings) http://www.rvproject.com = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-10/11 Oshkosh Update
Date: Jul 28, 2002
Was anyone at the Oshkosh forum this past Thursday and have any additional info on the RV-10? Bret Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2002
From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Bag Contents
Has anyone put together a spreadsheet of the RV-7's bag contents? I had a look at the 1998 version, which doesn't track with what I'm looking at now. In the meantime, I'm getting started on the wing and any tips on sorting out the platenuts would be greatly appreciated.=0D =0D Brooks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com
Date: Jul 28, 2002
Subject: Tax on Lyc 360
In a message dated 7/27/02 11:56:18 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << Don't know about technical differences. But do you have to pay state taxes if you buy an engine from Van's (Oregon) as opposed to Aircraft Spruce? I'd like to know the answer to this one myself. Anybody? >> Oregon doesn't have a sales tax (yet), but if you live in a state that does, like CA or WA, you probably would be liable for taxes in that state on the item. You would report it wouldn't you??? heheheh... Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR RV6a finish kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2002
From: Don Stewart <siinc(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Tax on Lyc 360
Actually, sales tax is collected by companies doing business in a state and selling to another address within the same state. Unless the company is registered to do business in another state, sales tax collection (if any) is limited to instate sales. If a company is registered to do business in Washington AND California, then sales tax would be collected for any sales to either a WA or CA address. Don AZ Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/27/02 11:56:18 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > << Don't know about technical differences. But do you have to pay state > taxes if you buy an engine from Van's (Oregon) as opposed to Aircraft > Spruce? I'd like to know the answer to this one myself. Anybody? > >> > > Oregon doesn't have a sales tax (yet), but if you live in a state that does, > like CA or WA, you probably would be liable for taxes in that state on the > item. You would report it wouldn't you??? heheheh... > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > RV6a finish kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Bag Contents
Date: Jul 28, 2002
Try this: RV7 Fuselage Hardware Bags Parts List January 11,2002 Bag Part 1952 an426ad3-3.5 1953 an426ad3-4 1954 an426ad3-4.5 1955 an426ad3-3.5 1956 an426ad4-5 1957 an426ad4-6 1958 an426ad4-7 1959 an470ad4-4 1960 an470ad4-5 1961 an470ad4-6 1962 an470ad4-7 1963-2 LP4-3 1963-2 MSP-42 1963-2 CS4-4 1964-1 K1000-08 1964-1 K1000-3 1964-1 K1000-4 1965 ms21051-L08 1965 ms21051-L3 1965 mk1000-428 1966 AN818-4D 1966 AN819-4D 1966 AN822-4D 1966 AN832-4D 1966 AN833-4D 1966 AN837-4D 1966 AN924-4D 1966 AN816-6D 1966 AN818-6D 1966 AN819-6D 1966 AN822-6D 1967 bushing sb437-4 1967 bushing sb500-6 1967 bushing sb625-7 1968 an507-6r6 1968 an509-10r12 1968 an515-8r8 1968 an526C832r8 1968 screw 5/16-20X1 1/2 1969 AN3-4A 1969 AN3-5 1969 AN3-5A 1969 AN3-6 1969 AN3-6A 1969 AN3-7 1969 AN3-7A 1969 AN3-10A 1969 AN3-11 1969 AN3-11A 1969 AN3-13A 1969 AN3-22A 1970 AN4-4A 1970 AN4-6A AN4H6A 1970 AN4-7A 1970 AN4-10A 1970 AN4-12A 1970 AN4-16 1970 AN4-25A 1970 AN4-27 1970 AN5-22A 1970 AN23-10 1970 AN5-10 1971 AN365-832A 1971 AN365-1032 1971 AN365-428 1971 AN365-524 1971 AN316-4R 1971 AN316-5R 1971 AN316-6R 1971 AN310-4 1971 AN363-420 NUT 1/4-20 SL 1971 MS21042-3 1971 AN310-5 1971 AN310-3 1972 MD3616M BEARING 1972 M3414 BEARING 1972 F3514M BEARING 1972 CM-4M ROD END BRNG 1972 VA-101 1972 AN490HT11P-SDM 0.634 1972 VA-146 1973 AN931-4-12 1973 AN931-6-16 1973 AN960-8 1973 AN960-10 1973 AN960-10L 1973 AN960-416 1973 AN960-516 1973 AN970-4 1973 AN960-416L 1973 WASHER 5702-95-30 1973 WASHER 5702-75-60 1974 MS21919DG4 1974 MS24665-132 1974 MS24665-208 1974 MS21919WDG6 1975 F 63-PT3-25 1975 F 69-N-04X02 1975 F 271-N-04X02 666 F-6116 666 F-680 670 VA-107 487 Fuel Valve V407P 487 f 1/4 pipe plug 665 F-6115 673 F-636 833 AN426AD3-8 QP 1948 an4-34a 807 AN426AD4-5 404 AN470AD4-4 405 AN470AD4-5 421 AN426AD3-4 422 AN426AD4-4 428 AN470AD4-7 468 AN426AD3-3.5 477 AN470AD4-6 479 AN470AD4-8 480 AN470AD4-9 683-1 AN426AD3-6 685 AN426AD4-5 687 AN426AD4-7 829 AN426AD3-4.5 830 AN426AD3-5 836 AN426AD4-6 838 AN426AD4-8 1942 K1000-08 1943 K1100-06 1943 K1000-4 1944 MS21051-L08 1945 SB625-7 BUSHING Q 1948 AN4-13A Q 1948 AN3-12A Q 1948 AN4-4A 1946 AN509-8R8 1946 AN509-10R12 1946 AN515-8R8 1947 AN3-5A 1947 AN3-6A 1947 AN3-10A 1947 AN3-12A 1947 AN3-22A 1949 AN365-832A 1949 AN365-1032 1949 AN365-428 1950 AN960-8 1950 AN960-10 1950 AN960-416 1950 AN960-10L 1951 MA21919WDG6 AN742-6 REPLACES 1981 F-601C-1 1981 F-601F-1 1981 F-601G-1 1981 F-601H-1 672-PC F-634-L-PC 672-PC F-634-R-PC 1982 AB4-250X1 1/2X2 ALUM BAR 1982 AS3-063X0.625X3 ALUM SHEET 1982 AS3-125X0.75X4.25 ALUM SPACER 832 AN426AD3-7 QP 464 AN426AD4-11 QP 457 AN426AD4-14 699 AN4-6A 699 AN4-7A 699 AN960-416 699 AN365-428 1923 CM-4MS BEARING 1923 AN936A416 437 LP4-3 1980 AN526C832R8 1980 AA3-032X3/4X3/4X2 ALUM ANGLE 926-1 w/elec flap sub-kit 926-1 AN515-8R8 926-1 K1000-08 926-1 AN4-10A 926-1 AN4-21 926-1 AN3-22A 926-1 AN310-4 926-1 AN365-1032 926-1 AN365-428 926-1 AN960-416 926-1 AN960-10 926-1 MS24665-208 926-1 AT6-058X3/8X2 926-1 AA6-063X3/4X3/4X6 926-1 EF-603 926-1 EF-604 926-1 AB6-125X1X3 926-1 AA6-125X1X1X2 926-1 ES S338T 926-1 ES DVI8-188B-M 926-1 F-661EF 926-1 AN365-832A 926-1 ES 36152 422 AN426AD4-4 832 AN426AD3-7 1990 CS4-4 1990 K1000-08 1990 SB500-6 BUSHING 1990 AN509-8R8 1990 AN526C832R8 1990 AS3-063X3X3 1990 VS-411PP-PC 1991 AN3-5A 1991 AN4-10A 1991 AN365-1032 1991 AN365-428 1991 AN960-10 1991 AN960-416 496 AN960-616 496 AN6-30 496 AN310-6 496 MS24665-300 497 AN4-14A 497 AN365-428 497 AN960-416 489 VA-105C 489 VA-105B 489 VA-105A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV7-List: Bag Contents > > Has anyone put together a spreadsheet of the RV-7's bag contents? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2002
Subject: Re: Tax on Lyc 360
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 7/28/02 12:56 PM, Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com at Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/27/02 11:56:18 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > << Don't know about technical differences. But do you have to pay state > taxes if you buy an engine from Van's (Oregon) as opposed to Aircraft > Spruce? I'd like to know the answer to this one myself. Anybody? >>> > > Oregon doesn't have a sales tax (yet), but if you live in a state that does, > like CA or WA, you probably would be liable for taxes in that state on the > item. You would report it wouldn't you??? heheheh... > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > RV6a finish kit > > > > > Hi Taxes, if you live in a state that has sales tax they will get you. I live in MI it has a sales tax. My first plane I build after I N-numbered it I got a letter from the state wanting me to produce sales slips for the plane. If I didn't pay sales tax in this state or any other state I had to pay the state the tax. So be as brief as possible when giving info on what you bought. Maybe just keep the slip from Van's to show. Scott Trask IMT > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Noujaim" <nouj(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: First Milestone
Date: Jul 29, 2002
Keep going Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty" <mkwitek(at)new.rr.com> Subject: RV7-List: First Milestone > > I have been a LURKER! I admit it. But I have now completed a milestone > and wish to come out of the hanger. My Horizontal Stabilizer is hanging > on the wall. > > The VS is in the jig and I will rivit skins today. Maybe I really can > build an airplane. > > Marty Kwitek > Green Bay, WI > Emp - VS > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Subject: Tax on Lyc 360
Date: Jul 29, 2002
Tax: It all depends on the state. In my state (Vermont), you are technically supposed to pay sales tax on anything you buy, whether it's from catalog or even from the Internet. (Why this last is legal I'm not sure -- I thought Congress banned Internet sales taxes.) I haven't investigated how this all relates to homebuilding yet, but I can imagine a worst-case scenario of buying your parts over a period of years, getting audited by your state when you eventually register your new plane, and getting nailed for back-taxes for those years you _should_ have been paying. Luck of the draw, perhaps. Rick RV-7 emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Tax on Lyc 360
In California we have a use tax. Bottom line you are required to send in the sales tax on ANYTHING purchased out side of the state. Just ask your tax guy. With that said, they only go after high dollar items. I will send in the sales tax for the kit and the matter will be considered closed according to the tax board. If you dont send it in they can catch up with you later and you have to pay on the kit engine or? PLUS penalties. > >Tax: It all depends on the state. In my state (Vermont), you are >technically supposed to pay sales tax on anything you buy, whether it's >from catalog or even from the Internet. (Why this last is legal I'm not >sure -- I thought Congress banned Internet sales taxes.) > >I haven't investigated how this all relates to homebuilding yet, but I >can imagine a worst-case scenario of buying your parts over a period of >years, getting audited by your state when you eventually register your >new plane, and getting nailed for back-taxes for those years you >_should_ have been paying. > >Luck of the draw, perhaps. > >Rick >RV-7 emp. > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2002
From: Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10/11 Oshkosh Update
I didn't get to the forum but I went to the dinner Saturday night where a similar - if shortened presentation was made. The most interesting part for me (and I'm not going to build a 10) is that you'll be building in modular form. Take the fuselage for instance. Instead of having some big honkin' fuselage, you'll build pieces of it, eventually connecting it all together. Build a piece of it, put aside, build another piece. Very helpful. Also the current skin stiffeners willa ctually be joined ribs, thus eliminating the manufacturing of these little babies. BC --- Bret Smith wrote: > > > Was anyone at the Oshkosh forum this past Thursday > and have any additional > info on the RV-10? > > Bret Smith > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://health.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: prospective builders...tool run-down
Date: Jul 31, 2002
There's been a lot of talk about tools...what's required, where to get good deals, etc. I finally got around to putting together a pretty comprehensive page with tons of pictures and descriptions of the tools I use regularly. http://www.rvproject.com/tools.html I'm not in any way trying to endorse any manufacturers or vendors or anything like that. I'm just trying to provide data points for prospective builders. I hope somebody out there finds this useful. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings...still!) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok(at)eee.org>
Subject: prospective builders...tool run-down
Date: Aug 03, 2002
Dan Checkoway did an excellent job of describing and recommending various tools to use in the build of an RV-7. Based on his recommendations I started looking around for a pneumatic rivet squeezer. They are expensive, but I noted that the Avery Tool price of $610.00 for the pneumatic squeezer with the Longeron Yoke (P/N 7555) can now be beat by a "Summer Special" that "Rivettools.com" is having. It looks like they are selling the same setup for $455.00. Click on the following address for more information: http://www.rivettools.com/ I got their web address from the Van's Catalog. Pete Krok pkrok(at)eee.org Redlands CA RV-7A Emp. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: prospective builders...tool run-down There's been a lot of talk about tools...what's required, where to get good deals, etc. I finally got around to putting together a pretty comprehensive page with tons of pictures and descriptions of the tools I use regularly. http://www.rvproject.com/tools.html I'm not in any way trying to endorse any manufacturers or vendors or anything like that. I'm just trying to provide data points for prospective builders. I hope somebody out there finds this useful. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings...still!) http://www.rvproject.com = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2002
From: Kevin Hanson <rv8tor(at)comcast.net>
Subject: prospective builders...tool run-down
You can find these regularly on EBay for $280-300. That's where I got mine. Chicago Pneumatic, with yoke...$285. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Krok Subject: RE: RV7-List: prospective builders...tool run-down Dan Checkoway did an excellent job of describing and recommending various tools to use in the build of an RV-7. Based on his recommendations I started looking around for a pneumatic rivet squeezer. They are expensive, but I noted that the Avery Tool price of $610.00 for the pneumatic squeezer with the Longeron Yoke (P/N 7555) can now be beat by a "Summer Special" that "Rivettools.com" is having. It looks like they are selling the same setup for $455.00. Click on the following address for more information: http://www.rivettools.com/ I got their web address from the Van's Catalog. Pete Krok pkrok(at)eee.org Redlands CA RV-7A Emp. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: prospective builders...tool run-down There's been a lot of talk about tools...what's required, where to get good deals, etc. I finally got around to putting together a pretty comprehensive page with tons of pictures and descriptions of the tools I use regularly. http://www.rvproject.com/tools.html I'm not in any way trying to endorse any manufacturers or vendors or anything like that. I'm just trying to provide data points for prospective builders. I hope somebody out there finds this useful. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings...still!) http://www.rvproject.com = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok(at)eee.org>
Subject: Question on Primers
Date: Aug 09, 2002
Some of the guys building aircraft in my local area are simply using TSP to prep the aluminum before priming. That's all they use, i.e., they don't use Alumiprep No.33 or Alodine No. 1201 before priming with the AKZO 2-part Epoxy primer at $93.50/gal from Aircraft Spruce. For the priming they are using the following 2 NAPA brand products (from the auto-paint store). Econo-Etch Etching Primer (P/N 15210) at $47.69/gal, and Econo-Etch Etching Primer Reducer (P/N 15213) at $24.09/gal The primer and reducer are mixed 1:1 and the end color is the same green primer color we are used to seeing. They say they've been getting good results. Question 1: Is TSP sufficient in most cases, i.e., where the aluminum is almost factory fresh with little or no corrosion? . or is the general recommendation to use Alumiprep No.33 and Alodine No. 1201 on all parts before priming? Question 2: Have any other folks out there had any experience using the NAPA 2-part primer? I'm just getting started. I want to do a good job, but I don't want to do the overkill business. NAPA's just down the block, more convenient and less expensive. I certainly don't mind going to Aircraft Spruce if there's a significant difference in the outcome. Thanks for your replies. Since my question is rather lengthy, please don't forget to "SNIP-SNIP" my e-mail from any replies you are kind enough to send. Pete Krok pkrok(at)eee.org Redlands, CA RV-7A Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Primers
Date: Aug 09, 2002
IMHO unless you park your plane very near the ocean you will never see the difference, my 1956 182 has next to no corrosion and no primer anywhere except on repairs I have done. Alodine is an acid conversion treatment that etches the surface promoting adhesion of the primer. It is redundant with an etching primer. I'm using alodine/AKZO on the non alclad spars and structural parts and a Sherwin-William self etching primer on the clad stuff. Neil McLeod 7QB fuselage installing systems ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok(at)eee.org> Subject: RV7-List: Question on Primers > > Some of the guys building aircraft in my local area are simply using TSP > to prep the aluminum before priming. That's all they use, i.e., they > don't use Alumiprep No.33 or Alodine No. 1201 before priming with the > AKZO 2-part Epoxy primer at $93.50/gal from Aircraft Spruce. > > For the priming they are using the following 2 NAPA brand products (from > the auto-paint store). > Econo-Etch Etching Primer (P/N 15210) at $47.69/gal, and > Econo-Etch Etching Primer Reducer (P/N 15213) at $24.09/gal > > The primer and reducer are mixed 1:1 and the end color is the same green > primer color we are used to seeing. They say they've been getting good > results. > > Question 1: Is TSP sufficient in most cases, i.e., where the aluminum > is almost factory fresh with little or no corrosion? . or is the > general recommendation to use Alumiprep No.33 and Alodine No. 1201 on > all parts before priming? > > Question 2: Have any other folks out there had any experience using the > NAPA 2-part primer? > > I'm just getting started. I want to do a good job, but I don't want to > do the overkill business. NAPA's just down the block, more convenient > and less expensive. I certainly don't mind going to Aircraft Spruce if > there's a significant difference in the outcome. > > Thanks for your replies. Since my question is rather lengthy, please > don't forget to "SNIP-SNIP" my e-mail from any replies you are kind > enough to send. > > Pete Krok > pkrok(at)eee.org > Redlands, CA > RV-7A Emp > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2002
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Edge distance fix for the HS-405 Flange
I'm just getting around to dimpling the spars and ribs for the HS stabilizer. Per a previous posting, I noticed that the pre-punched (skin) holes that determine the hole location for HS-405 (flange) puts it right on the flange edge. The joggle in flange allows HS-405 to fit in between the front spar flanges. When Van's a/c programmed the hole location in the CNC machine this was probably overlooked. My fix was to make four backer plates out of 0.032 Alclad. I'll drill one hole in each backer plate to cleco it in place. I'll drill the other hole when I'm riveting the HS together. See the photos for more information. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jgburns/Empennage_2.html A few builders already responded. They ignored it, but I thought it would be good experience to make a few custom pieces. John Burns Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: RV7 Tip Up Question
Date: Aug 11, 2002
F721B canopy deck was predrilled and positioned on F718 longeron during longeron preparation. Now, several months later, when fitting F757T gusset (having fabricated it with square hole cut out per plans dwg 18 and 25 for tip up) between F721B and F718 and positioning it with hole impressions (which seem to be for alignment and positioning purposes), I find the square hole is partially covered by aft edge of F721B. It is possible I cut F721B for tip up incorrectly months ago but I can't verify that due to lack of measurement data from leading edge of F721B. As I measure F721B from top of horizontal surface from end to end after being trimmed per instructions for tip up, it is 28 7/8" long. I could use a verification of this from someone. In addition, the slot cut and extended in F721B needs extending more about 1/2 inch to get it to fit with F757T. Looks like I could shorten F721B at aft end by the 1/2" to get this step to fit. Just wondering, if anyone else had this problem shortly after turning the fuselage upright? It was nice to meet several of you at the gathering under the tallest of trees at Oshkosh. I want to second what someone else posted recently on the nice work that Steve Eberhart has done with the RV7 (tail wheel model) R/C plane. I hope he continues to develop this and other non-flying models of the 7/7A. I know I'd like to have one that looks just like my real plane when I get it done and painted. Larry in Indiana, working on RV7 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Subject: Scotchbrite wheels and drill motors
Date: Aug 12, 2002
Listers, I fear I'm beating a dead horse, but saw nothing to answer this question in the archives. My 1" Scotchbrite wheel is too wide for my grinder, and the housing is built in such a way that there's no way to make it work. I'd rather not buy another grinder, so I am looking for other ways to do this. I have a spare drill press. Is that an option? Can you find arbors big enough? While I'm airing my ignorance, I also see mention of using a drill motor. What, exactly, is a drill motor? Looking at Avery and Brown, drill motors look much like power drills to me -- well, some do, anyway. I assume that putting the wheel into a drill motor would give me a handheld Scotchbrite wheel. Do people find that desirable? Thanks. Rick McCraw RV-7 emp (just beginning; can you tell? :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Great site Dan!
Date: Aug 12, 2002
> Question: what process do you follow that has worked for you to prepare the > Aluminum before you shoot the AKZO primer? MEK, Alodine? Do you also shoot > the skins since they are alclad? I'm copying the lists just in case this is of value to anybody. I'll answer these questions in reverse order...nope, I don't shoot the insides of skins. You might think I'm nuts, but I believe the Alclad, if kept unscratched (worth all the trouble with the soldering iron to strategically leave on patches of blue plastic while working with the skins), will last a good long time before any corrosion forms. I prime anything which has been scratched, filed, extruded, or bent (notice how Alclad thins in bent areas, like on rib flange corners?). In answer to "MEK, Alodine?" I don't believe Alodine will be effective on Alclad, even if you clean it with MEK. I'm pretty sure Alodine only works effectively on raw aluminum. So I "etch" the parts first. Here's what I do as the full priming process...this process is what was recommended to me and I'm convinced it's the best way to go. I apologize if anything in here is way too detailed (like "transfer the primer into your gun"), but you never know. Some people like lots of detail... 1) Set up hangers for all the pieces you'll be prepping. Not necessarily hangers where the parts will get sprayed, but where they can dry during the prep process. I usually use a bunch of pieces of stripped strands of 12 gauge (or whatever) Romex, which holds its shape nicely when bent and fits through #30 holes no problem: http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020719_hanging.jpg Sometimes I just hammer some nails into a 2x4 clamped across whatever: http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020508_hanging2.jpg Other times I just use nails in the edge of a bench: http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020809_stiffeners_hanging.jpg 2) Set up the prep area...I have a drain in the driveway just outside my garage. Don't even tell me how horrible it is to let chemicals wash into ocean...I feel bad enough about it already...I just try to minimize the amount of chemicals I drain. I've pretty much accepted that during the building process I'm contributing to the demise of the environment. Ok, guilt trip aside...anyway, I bring a hose over for rinsing. Get a little stool or something to sit on to make your life a little easier. Get a maroon Scotch Brite pad (7447 or whatever). Wear full cover, a respirator, saftey goggles, and rubber gloves. I want to take no chances with Alodine, a chromic sure to cause nasty health problems. 3) Dilute Alumiprep in a spray bottle according to the instructions. Take each part, spray it down with the Alumiprep solution, and scrub the bejezus out of it with the Scotch Brite pad. There's nothing like the look of RAW aluminum. It has that dull smooth character once the Alclad has been stripped off. Get the edges, too. Don't let the Alumiprep dry, do one side or portion at a time if you have to. Rinse the part off thoroughly when you're done and hang it back up. 4) Put a small bit of Alodine in a cup and get a foam brush. Somehow brush the Alodine onto the parts. My technique varies here...I used to brush it on while the part was hanging but that's kind of silly since the stuff runs right down and drips off, and having to raise your arm to brush it on you're likely to get Alodine running down the glove and on your sleeve, increasing the chance of contacting that nasty crap. Lately I just lay the parts down horizontally on a cardboard box or a chicken wire mesh and brush the Alodine on there. I believe the BEST way to Alodine stuff is in a dip trough, though (although I never do it). That ensures the best consistent coverage and gets you that nice gold finish...but it takes FAR more Alodine to do that. I've seen people design all sorts of recycling methods for Alodine, and that's a good way to go if you want to put the extra effort in. I've also seen people fill a PVC pipe with Alodine in which you can soak long, narrow parts like stiffeners without using as much. But for larger parts like spars and ribs, I'm not about to fill a huge bucket full of Alodine if you know what I mean. I'm satisfied with the level of conversion that brushing on and using very little Alodine provides. To each his own here. Anyway, let the part sit/soak/brush for 3 minutes or whatever the instructions say, and then thoroughly rinse the part off and hang it up to dry FULLY. It's at this phase where nothing should touch the part, especially not oily fingers. Use latex/rubber gloves when handling the parts between now and spraying. 5) Once everything is dry, get it into position for priming. I don't have a consistent way of doing this. Sometimes I lay stuff across chicken wire, sometimes I spray it while hanging, sometimes I lay it out on a dust-free surface. Whatever works for you. 6) Mix up the primer. My understanding (and this could be COMPLETELY wrong) is that there's a 30-minute "induction" period for AKZO...and my interpretation of that is that you mix one-to-one of the green stuff and the catalyst, and then you let it sit 30 minutes while it does its chemical thing. I mix it every 5-10 minutes or so during that process with one of those drill-mounted stirrers. I'm guessing that the 30-minute thing is either wrong or unnecessary, but who knows. I'm not a chemist, but it has worked like a charm for me and I'm happy with how my primer layer comes out. 7) Get the sprayer set up. The 30-minute "induction" time is a good time to get last-minute items ready. I take my inline oiler out of the air line and hook up a dedicated "clean air" line for spraying. I set my regulator on about 23 psi (the magic # for me, you'll find your own). Get some latex gloves handy. I even put ear plugs in when priming so that chromic crap doesn't get in my ears and have a nice straight path to my brain. Anyway, once the primer's ready, get your safety gear on and transfer the primer to your spray gun -- I use those cheap little disposable paper funnels from Spruce. Have some Acetone and a rag around for cleanup. 8) Spray everything. A thin, semi-transparent layer is all that's required. I tend to go a little heavier than that just for kicks. If I add another 2 pounds to the aircraft overall I won't be upset. I like the way the AKZO holds up to scratches, chemicals, etc. You'll find your own happy medium thickness-wise. 9) Let it dry at least 15-30 minutes before handling. If you can let it dry in the sun, it will be ready for handling almost instantaneously. AKZO dries *fast* in dry heat, especially direct sunlight. 10) I clean my spray gun with Acetone. First I fill the cup up about halfway and then spray it on some scrap (i.e. a cardboard box, whatever) while shaking it vigorously, cycling the "mixture", etc. Once that's all sprayed out, I take the cup off and wipe everything down as best I can with Acetone, paying close attention to the nozzle, etc. Yeah, this is absolutely 100% more time-consuming than just MEK'ing the parts down and spraying on some self-etching primer from a can. But for me, AKZO is as durable as I want it to be. I don't dig the way the spray can primer lays on. Much less durable in my *opinion*. Take all this with a grain of salt. I hope this info is helpful, )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Scotchbrite wheels and drill motors
Date: Aug 12, 2002
> I fear I'm beating a dead horse, but saw nothing to answer this question > in the archives. My 1" Scotchbrite wheel is too wide for my grinder, > and the housing is built in such a way that there's no way to make it > work. I'd rather not buy another grinder, so I am looking for other > ways to do this. Have you tried taking the "end cap" off your bench grinder? I had to do this since the 6" ScotchBrite wheel was too thick and sticks out the side. My end caps were held on with 3 screws or something like that. http://www.rvproject.com/images/tools/bench_grinder_scotch_brite_wheel.jpg )_( Dan http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2002
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: Scotchbrite wheels and drill motors
We all were at the stage you are at. Welcome to the group. A drill motor is simply an electric drill. In shop class they called them drill motors to keep from confusing them with drill bits when someone asked for a drill. You will use the scotchbrite wheel enough to warrant a trip to Harbor Freight to buy one that will fit the wheel. You can easily drill out the center mounting hole if you need to to fit the grinder. I have a second 2" diameter scotchbrite wheel that will mount in an air die grinder. I find it useful in deburring the cutouts in the wing ribs, etc. Steve Eberhart RV-7A - working on wings N14SE reserved Rick McCraw wrote: > > Listers, > > I fear I'm beating a dead horse, but saw nothing to answer this question > in the archives. My 1" Scotchbrite wheel is too wide for my grinder, > and the housing is built in such a way that there's no way to make it > work. I'd rather not buy another grinder, so I am looking for other > ways to do this. > > I have a spare drill press. Is that an option? Can you find arbors big > enough? > > While I'm airing my ignorance, I also see mention of using a drill > motor. What, exactly, is a drill motor? Looking at Avery and Brown, > drill motors look much like power drills to me -- well, some do, anyway. > I assume that putting the wheel into a drill motor would give me a > handheld Scotchbrite wheel. Do people find that desirable? > > Thanks. > > Rick McCraw > RV-7 emp (just beginning; can you tell? :-) > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/12/02
From: MKL(at)inel.gov
Date: Aug 13, 2002
08/13/2002 06:09:48 AM I used my radial arm saw for the large scotchbrite wheel, just swiveled the head 90 degrees and removed the shielding. It will even out if the hole is a little off center to start with. This has worked great for me. I also use a 90 degree 1/4 inch arbor die grinder for the two inch wheel. Just finishing first wing. Listers, I fear I'm beating a dead horse, but saw nothing to answer this question in the archives. My 1" Scotchbrite wheel is too wide for my grinder, and the housing is built in such a way that there's no way to make it work. I'd rather not buy another grinder, so I am looking for other ways to do this. I have a spare drill press. Is that an option? Can you find arbors big enough? While I'm airing my ignorance, I also see mention of using a drill motor. What, exactly, is a drill motor? Looking at Avery and Brown, drill motors look much like power drills to me -- well, some do, anyway. I assume that putting the wheel into a drill motor would give me a handheld Scotchbrite wheel. Do people find that desirable? Thanks. Rick McCraw RV-7 emp (just beginning; can you tell? :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Subject: Scotchbrite wheels and drill motors
Date: Aug 15, 2002
Thanks to all who responded about Scotchbrite wheels. Dan, the existing bench grinder is a no-go -- there is no end cap, and the housing is solid. Having spent plenty on tools so far (probably a fraction of what I'll end up with), I will take Steve's suggestion and throw the wheel on my radial arm saw. If that doesn't work for me, then Harbor Freight, here I come. Rick McCraw RV-7 emp -- as of today! (first metal -- finally drilled out my first holes. Not much, but a start.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Franklin Engine
Date: Aug 15, 2002
I'm thinking about engine options for the RV7 and while at Oshkosh I saw a 6A 350 C1R Franklin 6 cylinder engine in a home built. This engine is 220hp, certified, and costs about $15,000 new. The RV7 package with engine mounts is about $25,000 (www.franklinengines.com). This all sounds pretty good. What am I missing here? There must be more to the story. A 4 cylinder Lycoming 200hp costs $30,000 from Vans. John Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2002
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
John, You can definately get an opinion on this engine by calling Vans. I talked to Tom Green, their GM at the Arlington fly in about it. They had one in an 8. He painted a pretty bleak picture, but I would expect this to a point considering the relationship they have with Lyc. What does the $25,000 include? Ross Schlotthauer RV7 --- John Adams wrote: > > > I'm thinking about engine options for the RV7 and > while at Oshkosh I saw a > 6A 350 C1R Franklin 6 cylinder engine in a home > built. This engine is > 220hp, certified, and costs about $15,000 new. The > RV7 package with engine > mounts is about $25,000 (www.franklinengines.com). > This all sounds pretty > good. What am I missing here? There must be more > to the story. A 4 > cylinder Lycoming 200hp costs $30,000 from Vans. > John > Canopy > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
Check the compression of the 220HP Franklin engine, I think it is 10.3 or 10.5 to one. With the changing of AVGAS (read lower octane) in the near future I would not even think about buying one. If the Octane is lowered to 95~96 as I have read, this engine will not be able to run on it. I have been on the same path and ended up with a Lycoming. If you want 200HP the best thing you could do is have someone build you a O-360 180HP into a IO-360 200 HP and save the extra money and 30+ lbs. Aero Sport Power is building me an engine, they supply the core. I am getting 9.2:1 pistons, Light Speed Dual Electronic ignition, Superior Air Parts sump for better flow. Air Flow Performance fuel injection, and remote oil filter. All this for 18.7K. This will either be a 200hp engine or 200 HP+. On the down side the core he is rebuilding for me is a conical mount and they are using refurb parts. With the reputation of Aero Sport Power I have the utmost confidence in the engine. They are one of the few companies in the experimental world that I have heard nothing bad about them to date. Oh about the compression 9.2:1, you can run on auto gas but the safety margin is eroded a little. If you can run 11:1 on 100 octane as some people do then you can run 9.2:1 on 95~96 Octane. I have called engine builders and they have reluctantly agreed with this after thinking about it. Just my 2 cents from and RV 8 builder. > >I'm thinking about engine options for the RV7 and while at Oshkosh I saw a >6A 350 C1R Franklin 6 cylinder engine in a home built. This engine is >220hp, certified, and costs about $15,000 new. The RV7 package with engine >mounts is about $25,000 (www.franklinengines.com). This all sounds pretty >good. What am I missing here? There must be more to the story. A 4 >cylinder Lycoming 200hp costs $30,000 from Vans. >John >Canopy > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Franklin Engine
Date: Aug 15, 2002
"What does the $25,000 include?" "Ross Schlotthauer RV7" On their web site they have a list of items for the RV8 kit. The RV7 kit will be the same items which is pretty complete including a new mount (not for the 7A)and accessories, no baffles however, just plans for baffles. John Adams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Nutplate on aileron spar
Date: Aug 15, 2002
Ok, I'll do my best to describe this... On the inboard end of the aileron spar, there are 3 bolt holes where the hinge bracket mounts. The instructions call for trimming a hole in the inboard aileron rib so you can get a wrench back there on the nut. BUT...the match-drilled aileron spars came pre-drilled with nutplate rivet holes around the middle "recessed" bolt hole...but this isn't indicated on the drawing. I have to assume those are nutplate rivet holes, and they're there for a reason. It sure seems logical to me to use the nutplate blind instead of having to cut a wrench access hole in the rib. How are most of you handling this? Are you installing a nutplate there or going with the traditional wrench-hole-cutting method? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (ailerons...obviously) dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Dimple aileron nose skin
Date: Aug 16, 2002
Ok, you countersink the holes in the galvanized pipe...but how do you dimple the respective holes in the aileron nose skin? Or do you bother? The plans call for countersunk CS4-4 rivets in those holes, but I can't figure out how to get the skin holes dimpled properly. I fear that if I use the C-frame it will leave major smiles around the holes since the curve is pretty sharp. How have you dealt with this? Does pulling the rivet dimple the .020 as it compresses? Haven't asked Van's yet...it's just after midnight, figured somebody out there in list-land is listening. )_( Dan dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nutplate on aileron spar
Dan I don't think mine had a nutplate indication at this location I just knawed out a mouse hole as instructed cary --- Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > Ok, I'll do my best to describe this... > > On the inboard end of the aileron spar, there are 3 > bolt holes where the > hinge bracket mounts. The instructions call for > trimming a hole in the > inboard aileron rib so you can get a wrench back > there on the nut. > BUT...the match-drilled aileron spars came > pre-drilled with nutplate rivet > holes around the middle "recessed" bolt hole...but > this isn't indicated on > the drawing. I have to assume those are nutplate > rivet holes, and they're > there for a reason. It sure seems logical to me to > use the nutplate blind > instead of having to cut a wrench access hole in the > rib. > > How are most of you handling this? Are you > installing a nutplate there or > going with the traditional wrench-hole-cutting > method? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (ailerons...obviously) > dan @ rvproject . com > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2002
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nutplate on aileron spar
Dan, I used the hole in the rib on both ailerons. Ross Schlotthauer RV7 --- Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > Ok, I'll do my best to describe this... > > On the inboard end of the aileron spar, there are 3 > bolt holes where the > hinge bracket mounts. The instructions call for > trimming a hole in the > inboard aileron rib so you can get a wrench back > there on the nut. > BUT...the match-drilled aileron spars came > pre-drilled with nutplate rivet > holes around the middle "recessed" bolt hole...but > this isn't indicated on > the drawing. I have to assume those are nutplate > rivet holes, and they're > there for a reason. It sure seems logical to me to > use the nutplate blind > instead of having to cut a wrench access hole in the > rib. > > How are most of you handling this? Are you > installing a nutplate there or > going with the traditional wrench-hole-cutting > method? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (ailerons...obviously) > dan @ rvproject . com > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2002
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dimple aileron nose skin
Dan, I can tell you this, Countersinking the pipe and then simply pulling the rivets doesn't work. I tried this and the rivets popped before the skin pulled down into the hole. Also, using the pop rivet dimple dies doen't work because it leaves a flat spot around the dimple on the curved surface. The best Idea I have heard is to countersink the pipe and cleco the skin to it, and then tap only your male dimple die aginst the skin with the pilot going into the pipe. I will be drilling out my rivets and doing this. Ross --- Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > Ok, you countersink the holes in the galvanized > pipe...but how do you dimple > the respective holes in the aileron nose skin? Or > do you bother? > > The plans call for countersunk CS4-4 rivets in those > holes, but I can't > figure out how to get the skin holes dimpled > properly. I fear that if I use > the C-frame it will leave major smiles around the > holes since the curve is > pretty sharp. > > How have you dealt with this? Does pulling the > rivet dimple the .020 as it > compresses? Haven't asked Van's yet...it's just > after midnight, figured > somebody out there in list-land is listening. > > )_( Dan > dan @ rvproject . com > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gannon, Terence" <Terence.Gannon(at)trican.ca>
Subject: Re: Dimple aileron nose skin
Date: Aug 16, 2002
My experience is that dimpling the counterweight, and not dimpling the skin does work, but in my case, I set the aileron in some V-blocks bolted to the bench so that I could push down with the rivet puller (hard!), while still pulling the rivet. I figured my pushing was doing most of the dimpling of the skin. The result was nearly a perfectly flush rivet, that I subsequently cleaned up just a little with a jewellers file, and then buffed out with a Scrotchbrite in a die-grinder. I think they'll look just fine, painted. HTH. Regards... Terry in Calgary RV-6 S/N 24414 "Wings" ----Original Message----- >From: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> >To: "rv7-list(at)matronics.com" >Cc: >Bcc: >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dimple aileron nose skin >Type: IPM.Note >Date: Friday, August 16, 2002 9:12 AM > > >Dan, > >I can tell you this, Countersinking the pipe and then >simply pulling the rivets doesn't work. I tried this >and the rivets popped before the skin pulled down into >the hole. Also, using the pop rivet dimple dies >doen't work because it leaves a flat spot around the >dimple on the curved surface. The best Idea I have >heard is to countersink the pipe and cleco the skin to >it, and then tap only your male dimple die aginst the >skin with the pilot going into the pipe. I will be >drilling out my rivets and doing this. > >Ross > > >--- Dan Checkoway wrote: >> >> >> Ok, you countersink the holes in the galvanized >> pipe...but how do you dimple >> the respective holes in the aileron nose skin? Or >> do you bother? >> >> The plans call for countersunk CS4-4 rivets in those >> holes, but I can't >> figure out how to get the skin holes dimpled >> properly. I fear that if I use >> the C-frame it will leave major smiles around the >> holes since the curve is >> pretty sharp. >> >> How have you dealt with this? Does pulling the >> rivet dimple the .020 as it >> compresses? Haven't asked Van's yet...it's just >> after midnight, figured >> somebody out there in list-land is listening. >> >> )_( Dan >> dan @ rvproject . com >> http://www.rvproject.com >> >> >> >> Contributions of >> any other form >> >> latest messages. >> other List members. >> >> http://www.matronics.com/subscription >> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >> http://www.matronics.com/search >> http://www.matronics.com/archives >> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >> >> >> >> >> > > >HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >http://www.hotjobs.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Rivet pattern...bottom wing skin root rib
Date: Aug 16, 2002
I'm confused...maybe somebody who has already dealt with mating their wings to the fuselage can help. On DWG 12, the bottom wing view shows that you put a rivet in every *other* hole, skin to root rib. But then it says to reference DWG 38, which clearly shows the pattern is every 3rd hole! What gives? I can obviously leave the bottom skin unriveted at the root rib, but I'd rather wrap this up. )_( Dan dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2002
From: allenblck(at)netscape.net
Subject: Franklin Engine
I've got a friend that put one of these Franklin 220hp PZL engines in his Stinson. The first engine broke a crankshaft over South Dakota. Guess what, PZL would not even return his phone call. If this was not a lesson enough, he put a second one in. Now he has been down a couple of months trying to get gears to connect his mags. I think if I'm going to put that much work in my RV, I'm going to stick with a tried and true engine. My two cents worth. Allen Blackwell allenbldk(at)netscape.net Stinson N8755K and building a RV7 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Rivet pattern...bottom wing skin root rib
Date: Aug 17, 2002
Dan, Speaking from one who has just installed my wings and just finished that EXACT step, I can tell you DON'T drill that last rib until the wings are installed. I was told by many builders and am glad I didn't. I just put the wings on, drilled for the fairing/skin, and this week when I took the wings back off to paint I riveted the rib on and installed the nutplates for the fairings. If you drill and rivet that last rib, you will have a more difficult time drilling that skin to the rib when the wing is installed. Best of luck, Stein Bruch RV6, Minneappolis--High on Acetone/MEK/DP-40...painting. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: RV7-List: Rivet pattern...bottom wing skin root rib I'm confused...maybe somebody who has already dealt with mating their wings to the fuselage can help. On DWG 12, the bottom wing view shows that you put a rivet in every *other* hole, skin to root rib. But then it says to reference DWG 38, which clearly shows the pattern is every 3rd hole! What gives? I can obviously leave the bottom skin unriveted at the root rib, but I'd rather wrap this up. )_( Dan dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: new alodine trick
Date: Aug 18, 2002
Well, I don't know if this is new...but I'll be happy to take credit for it if it is. 8 ) When alodining parts, here's a way to get thorough coverage with a minimum of alodine and essentially no runoff or waste: Take a large Ziploc sandwich bag (I used the common 1 gallon size that we had lying around the kitchen), and pour a bit of alodine in there...maybe a cup or so. Place your small parts into the bag one or two (or whatever) at a time, and seal it if you want (or not). Slosh the parts around in the alodine for a minute or two, take 'em out and rinse. The alodine stays in the bag and the coverage on the parts is way better than what you get when brushing it on. This will only work for small parts, obviously -- I just did this with aileron ribs and reinforcement plates and Gretz pitot mounting plates, etc. I have to say it works excellent. Wish I knew this trick a while ago. The coolest part is that you can drink the alodine right out of the bag when you're done. Um, not. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (ailerons) dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: new alodine trick
Date: Aug 19, 2002
Dan and others, I use alodine a lot. Brushing and spraying produce poor coverage. A bath is always the best for nice coverage. For bits I use: a. small bits, empty 2 litre ice cream containers. b. big awkward bits a 200 litre rectangular bin. c. long bits, either a length of plastic pipe with end caps, or a lenght of plastic guttering with end bulkheads glued in place, depending on length. d. big skins are a problem, being too big/awkward for any sort of tub, so I brush it on using a soggy chux and a very light touch (heavy touch scratches off the new deposit till it hardens)and have not always been very successful. I will add the bag technique to the list. Thanks for the tip. David Francis, VH-ZEE, fuselage growing in the bank account. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV7-List: new alodine trick Well, I don't know if this is new...but I'll be happy to take credit for it if it is. 8 ) When alodining parts, here's a way to get thorough coverage with a minimum of alodine and essentially no runoff or waste: Take a large Ziploc sandwich bag (I used the common 1 gallon size that we had lying around the kitchen), and pour a bit of alodine in there...maybe a cup or so. Place your small parts into the bag one or two (or whatever) at a time, and seal it if you want (or not). Slosh the parts around in the alodine for a minute or two, take 'em out and rinse. The alodine stays in the bag and the coverage on the parts is way better than what you get when brushing it on. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (ailerons) dan @ rvproject . com http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Franklin Engine
Date: Aug 20, 2002
John, Two comments, it is unwise to have more than 200hp in an RV7, that is the designers intent and various flutter and strength thresholds may be exceeded if you overpower the airframe. Suggest you talk to Vans about power limits. This is not the only good deal around, have a look at www.jabiru.net.au and look for the 6litre 200hp engine they have designed for the RV6/7 market. The Australian price is A$25 300 which is about US$13k. The reason it is so cheap is that us Aussies work for the same number of $ that US citizens do, but market forces mean our $ is half the value of yours. Guess what engine I am looking at very hard. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE, wings finished. -----Original Message----- From: John Adams [mailto:jadams(at)scoutmedical.com] Subject: RV7-List: Franklin Engine I'm thinking about engine options for the RV7 and while at Oshkosh I saw a 6A 350 C1R Franklin 6 cylinder engine in a home built. This engine is 220hp, certified, and costs about $15,000 new. The RV7 package with engine mounts is about $25,000 (www.franklinengines.com). This all sounds pretty good. What am I missing here? There must be more to the story. A 4 cylinder Lycoming 200hp costs $30,000 from Vans. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com
Date: Aug 20, 2002
Subject: Jabiru 6 litre
Dave... Thanks for pointing out the Jabiru 6000. If successful, that engine might cause a sensation in the RV world. I notice they only rate their engines for 1000 hrs TBO, I wonder why? Of course, many Lyc/Cons don't make it to their 2000 hrs either.... Cheers, Jerry Cochran RV6a finish kit/E-Soob Wilsonville, Oregon USA In a message dated 8/19/02 11:58:49 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << This is not the only good deal around, have a look at www.jabiru.net.au and look for the 6litre 200hp engine they have designed for the RV6/7 market. The Australian price is A$25 300 which is about US$13k. The reason it is so cheap is that us Aussies work for the same number of $ that US citizens do, but market forces mean our $ is half the value of yours. >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru 6 litre
Date: Aug 20, 2002
The dis advantage of the Jabiru is that it spins a smaller propeller to get the higher RPM. A sonex did about 6 high speed passes at our EAA "open house" and it did quiet well using it's 85HP VW motor. When the RV's came out it lost by far, a sonex can;t climb nearly as fast. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com> Subject: RV7-List: Jabiru 6 litre > > Dave... > > Thanks for pointing out the Jabiru 6000. If successful, that engine might > cause a sensation in the RV world. I notice they only rate their engines for > 1000 hrs TBO, I wonder why? Of course, many Lyc/Cons don't make it to their > 2000 hrs either.... > > Cheers, > Jerry Cochran > RV6a finish kit/E-Soob > Wilsonville, Oregon USA > > In a message dated 8/19/02 11:58:49 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > << This is not the only good deal around, have a look at www.jabiru.net.au and > look for the 6litre 200hp engine they have designed for the RV6/7 market. > The Australian price is A$25 300 which is about US$13k. The reason it is so > cheap is that us Aussies work for the same number of $ that US citizens do, > but market forces mean our $ is half the value of yours. > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Jabiru 6 litre
Date: Aug 21, 2002
My understanding of the 1000 hr tbo is as follows: a. for the 6000 its a new product not in production till end 02, therefore its a low initial figure till they build reliability data up. b. on the 2200 and 3300 engines they offer in Australia a fixed price overhaul that is so cheap doing 2 in 2000 hrs is still cheaper than doing one Lycoming overhaul in 2000hrs. c. Their 2200 engine is certified, but the 6000 is not going to be, to keep the cost down, but at least as a manufacturer they know how to meet certification quality standards. d. the production date of the 6000 has slipped by 12 months total due to development problems identified during flight test. This is good by me, it means fewer bugs in the product before it gets to us. e. For info Jabiru now own Microair, who make the tiny comm and transponder radios. Hope this helps folks make informed decisions, its always risky taking on a new engine, even from a company with Jabirus generally good track record. Although I am committed to the Jabiru 6000, I am still very cautious about it. Regards, David -----Original Message----- From: Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com [mailto:Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com] Subject: RV7-List: Jabiru 6 litre Dave... Thanks for pointing out the Jabiru 6000. If successful, that engine might cause a sensation in the RV world. I notice they only rate their engines for 1000 hrs TBO, I wonder why? Of course, many Lyc/Cons don't make it to their 2000 hrs either.... Cheers, Jerry Cochran RV6a finish kit/E-Soob Wilsonville, Oregon USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2002
Subject: Re: Jabiru 6 litre
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 8/20/02 11:33 AM, Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com at Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com wrote: > > Dave... > > Thanks for pointing out the Jabiru 6000. If successful, that engine might > cause a sensation in the RV world. I notice they only rate their engines for > 1000 hrs TBO, I wonder why? Of course, many Lyc/Cons don't make it to their > 2000 hrs either.... > > Cheers, > Jerry Cochran > RV6a finish kit/E-Soob > Wilsonville, Oregon USA > > In a message dated 8/19/02 11:58:49 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > << This is not the only good deal around, have a look at www.jabiru.net.au and > look for the 6litre 200hp engine they have designed for the RV6/7 market. > The Australian price is A$25 300 which is about US$13k. The reason it is so > cheap is that us Aussies work for the same number of $ that US citizens do, > but market forces mean our $ is half the value of yours. >>> > > > > > > > The Jabiru engine, I hope it will do well. From some of my resources the Jabiru 80 Hp is a high maintenance engine. The valves seem poorly lubricated and there have been some reports of burned values. Maybe they worked it out. The 8 cylinder 200 Hp engine is very new. I would like to see them put some hours on it and get some non-biased reports. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: way to avoid countersinking the flap hinges
Date: Aug 23, 2002
This is a note to builders who haven't completed their wings yet...I'm building my flaps and hit the point in the instructions where it says you can avoid countersinking the flap hinge by dimpling the skin and countersinking the spar. Makes perfect sense. The little burble I hit had to do with the fact that I already *dimpled* both the bottom wing skin rear edge and the *flap brace* as well. The result is that I'm going to have to machine countersink the holes on the forward half of the flap hinge. No big deal, but I was wondering if that would cause a structural issue...i.e. with the rivet bucktails not having as much material to grip or whatever. As it turns out, I called Van's and they said it was perfectly fine. But...I would rather have avoided this so I wouldn't have to countersink the hinge. So in case you haven't hit this point yet, you might want to consider machine countersinking the flap brace holes instead. That will mirror the method on the flap and you can avoid countersinking the hinge. Just something to consider. Hope this helps... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (flaps) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Any tips on bending FL-706B?
Date: Aug 23, 2002
The flap inboard end reinforcement bracket FL-706B is supposed to be bent 6.3 degrees, according to the plans, so that it will snug into the angle created by the inboard rib and the FL-706A angle. Any tips on how to make that bend? A vise and brute force? Any tricks? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (flaps) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
Subject: Re: way to avoid countersinking the flap hinges
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 8/23/02 1:18 PM, Dan Checkoway at dan(at)rvproject.com wrote: > > This is a note to builders who haven't completed their wings yet...I'm > building my flaps and hit the point in the instructions where it says you > can avoid countersinking the flap hinge by dimpling the skin and > countersinking the spar. Makes perfect sense. > > The little burble I hit had to do with the fact that I already *dimpled* > both the bottom wing skin rear edge and the *flap brace* as well. The > result is that I'm going to have to machine countersink the holes on the > forward half of the flap hinge. No big deal, but I was wondering if that > would cause a structural issue...i.e. with the rivet bucktails not having as > much material to grip or whatever. As it turns out, I called Van's and they > said it was perfectly fine. But...I would rather have avoided this so I > wouldn't have to countersink the hinge. > > So in case you haven't hit this point yet, you might want to consider > machine countersinking the flap brace holes instead. That will mirror the > method on the flap and you can avoid countersinking the hinge. > > Just something to consider. Hope this helps... > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (flaps) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > Dan You can remove the dimples, just drive them back with your rivet gun (hammer) and bucking bar. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Any tips on bending FL-706B?
Dan, Vise and 8 oz hammer. Move small amounts and measure accurately. Ross Schlotthauer --- Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > The flap inboard end reinforcement bracket FL-706B > is supposed to be bent > 6.3 degrees, according to the plans, so that it will > snug into the angle > created by the inboard rib and the FL-706A angle. > > Any tips on how to make that bend? A vise and brute > force? Any tricks? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (flaps) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://finance.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: CM-4MS flap rod end bearing
Date: Aug 24, 2002
Can somebody confirm that the CM-4MS bearings used on the flaps are supplied in the fuselage kit hardware? I didn't seem to get any with the wing kit hardware. Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (flaps) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "peter decraene" <peterdecraene(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: CM-4MS flap rod end bearing
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Bearings are with the Fuse kit. Pete DeCraene ordered finish kit ----- Original Message -----


January 05, 2002 - August 26, 2002

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