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RV7-Archive.digest.vol-ac
August 26, 2002 - February 04, 2003

From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: CM-4MS flap rod end bearing
> > Can somebody confirm that the CM-4MS bearings used on the flaps are supplied > in the fuselage kit hardware? I didn't seem to get any with the wing kit > hardware. > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (flaps) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Any tips on bending FL-706B?
Date: Aug 26, 2002
Dan, This is a case where a vice, hammer and block of wood works wonders. It's a tough bit of metal, go for it. David A Francis VH-ZEE Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au The flap inboard end reinforcement bracket FL-706B is supposed to be bent 6.3 degrees, according to the plans, so that it will snug into the angle created by the inboard rib and the FL-706A angle. Any tips on how to make that bend? A vise and brute force? Any tricks? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (flaps) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Getting Bounced From Matronics Lists...
Dear Listers, I have two programs I run regularly to purge the various Matronics email lists of bad email addresses. I referred to these as my Email Weasels and there is a daily version that is run automatically every night at midnight and there is a and a monthly version that I run by hand at roughly 30-day intervals. The Daily Weasel grinds through the 8 to 10mb of bounced email that is generated each day looking for obvious things like "user unknown", "host unknown", and other things that usually mean the user's email address doesn't exist any longer. The Daily Weasel has been purging 5 to 10 email addresses each night. The Monthly Weasel gets more serious about the task and sends a single message to each list member with specially generated headers and content information. Any bounces or replies to these messages are considered errors and the email address is eligible for purging. This program is particularly useful for "weaseling out" email addresses that are actually being forwarded to by another email address that is subscribed to a List and otherwise would not be identifiable. The Monthly Weasel purges roughly 100 nonexistent email addresses each month when it is run. To check to see if your address has been removed by either of the Email Weasel programs, you can check the Weasel Status Web Page at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If you find your email address on the Weasel List, but are certain that everything is working fine now, simply go the Matronics Subscription page and resubscribe your address. No harm, no foul. The subscription URL is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe That all having been said, I've noticed that the Daily Weasel may have been getting a little too aggressive in purging addresses recently and a number of people have written asking if and why they'd been dropped from the List. A couple of months ago I rewrote the Daily Weasel program to include a wider variety of errors and more aggressively purge. One of the new purge criteria that I added seems to occur a fair amount of the time (Connection Deferred) even though the address is really okay. As of today, I've removed the Connection Deferred criteria from the Daily Weasel Rule set and this should decrease the number of "false positives" and unnecessary unsubscribed. Again, if you get unsubscribed by either of the Email Weasel utilities, simply go to the subscription page and resubscribe: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>

Subject: rigging ailerons/flaps with wings in the cradle
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Does anybody see any potentials snags with mounting and rigging the ailerons and flaps while the wings are in the cradle (leading edge down)? The instructions say to put the wings topside down onto a bench and rig the controls that way. I'm curious if anybody sees any snags in going through this process with the wings vertical. Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings 99%) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JTAnon(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: rigging ailerons/flaps with wings in the cradle
Dan, I did one on the table and one in the jig. Jig is MUCH easier. Also, used plywood strips instead of the wing template. The method is outlined in the archives. John McDonnell (RV7A Fuse) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: rigging ailerons/flaps with wings
in the cradle
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Dan, I don't see a problem and vertical is how I intend to install the control surfaces. However I am holding off rigging until after the wing & bits are painted. Its easier to paint and then install and balance all surfaces. Otherwise someone gets to disassemble a finished plane, and then rebuild it again. Regards, David Francis. VH-ZEE Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 9:36 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: rigging ailerons/flaps with wings in the cradle Does anybody see any potentials snags with mounting and rigging the ailerons and flaps while the wings are in the cradle (leading edge down)? The instructions say to put the wings topside down onto a bench and rig the controls that way. I'm curious if anybody sees any snags in going through this process with the wings vertical. Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings 99%) http://www.rvproject.com Contributions of other form messages. members. http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv7-list http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
Subject: need 6 platenuts
Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003. Thanks Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
From: allenblck(at)netscape.net
Subject: New Rudder & Pneumatic set holders
1st Question, Has anyone received or installed the replacement rudder for the RV7 that Van's is providing? I understand that it's basically a RV9 rudder. I noticed that the fiberglass tips for the RV9's rudder and vert. stabilizer is considerably taller than the RV7. In other words, it stands out further from the tip of the metal. Are we going to use these taller tips, and replace the vert. stab. tip we have, or is Van's going to make a new tip for the top of the rudder that matches the one on our present vert. stab? 2nd Question, Is anyone using or had any problems with the adjustable set holder that Avery sells for the Pneumatic rivit squeezer? Allen B. N8755K The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Modular Instrument Panel
Date: Sep 05, 2002
I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have called me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel, after it was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27. As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our orders. The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of the questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone who has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it better. Regards, Fabian Lefler RV-9A (90292) N292FL (Reserved) fablef(at)bellsouth.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel
Date: Sep 05, 2002
Nice. The web site mentions it supports RV-7 and RV-9 sliders. How about tip-ups? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (wings 99.9999% running out of 9s) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel > --> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" > > I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have called > me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel, after it > was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27. > > As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our orders. > The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site > http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in > place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of the > questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone who > has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it > better. > > Regards, > > > Fabian Lefler > RV-9A (90292) > N292FL (Reserved) > fablef(at)bellsouth.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel
Date: Sep 05, 2002
Dan, No tip-ups, yet. The main advantage of my Modular Panel is the accessibility is provides to the back of the instruments and/or the avionics stack, if needed. Another advantage is that major panel layouts changes, say going from steam gauges to a Blue Mountain or alike, can be easily accomplished by replacing the panel plates. For the tip-ups, accessibility to the back of the panel is not an issue, so I didn't think that enough builders would be interested in spending the extra money for just one advantage. That may change though. To give you an idea how inexpensive it is to change the layout of an airplane with this modular system, I sell replacement plates for the left side (pilot) for $80 and the right side (co-pilot) for $60. So if a builder ever decides to replace their steam gauges for a $10,000 Blue Mountain system, they'll have to allocate an additional $80.00 and/or $60 for the plate. Kidding aside, the big advantage is that the cutting, fiddling and painting of the replacement plate can be accomplished at the shop, while the airplane remains flying. Very little downtime. Regards, Fabian RV-9A (90292) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel > > Nice. The web site mentions it supports RV-7 and RV-9 sliders. How about > tip-ups? > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (wings 99.9999% running out of 9s) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" > > > > I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have > called > > me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel, after > it > > was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27. > > > > As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our orders. > > The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site > > http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in > > place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of > the > > questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone > who > > has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it > > better. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Fabian Lefler > > RV-9A (90292) > > N292FL (Reserved) > > fablef(at)bellsouth.net > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel
Is the panel symmetrical? ie. I'm planning on flying mine from the right seat, could I just flip this whole thing left to right and have the larger panel on the right? -RB4 rv7 "at" b4.ca RV-7 Empennage Fabian Lefler wrote: > > Dan, > > No tip-ups, yet. > > The main advantage of my Modular Panel is the accessibility is provides to > the back of the instruments and/or the avionics stack, if needed. Another > advantage is that major panel layouts changes, say going from steam gauges > to a Blue Mountain or alike, can be easily accomplished by replacing the > panel plates. For the tip-ups, accessibility to the back of the panel is > not an issue, so I didn't think that enough builders would be interested in > spending the extra money for just one advantage. That may change though. > > To give you an idea how inexpensive it is to change the layout of an > airplane with this modular system, I sell replacement plates for the left > side (pilot) for $80 and the right side (co-pilot) for $60. So if a builder > ever decides to replace their steam gauges for a $10,000 Blue Mountain > system, they'll have to allocate an additional $80.00 and/or $60 for the > plate. Kidding aside, the big advantage is that the cutting, fiddling and > painting of the replacement plate can be accomplished at the shop, while the > airplane remains flying. Very little downtime. > > Regards, > > Fabian > RV-9A (90292) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > To: ; > Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel > > > >> >>Nice. The web site mentions it supports RV-7 and RV-9 sliders. How about >>tip-ups? >> >>)_( Dan >>RV-7 N714D (wings 99.9999% running out of 9s) >>http://www.rvproject.com >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> >>To: >>Subject: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" >>> >>>I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have >> >>called >> >>>me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel, >> > after > >>it >> >>>was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27. >>> >>>As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our >> > orders. > >>>The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site >>>http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in >>>place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of >> >>the >> >>>questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone >> >>who >> >>>has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it >>>better. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>> >>>Fabian Lefler >>>RV-9A (90292) >>>N292FL (Reserved) >>>fablef(at)bellsouth.net >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel
Date: Sep 05, 2002
Rob, The panel plates are not symmetrical, but it can be flipped to be installed for left or right seat flying without any modifications just like you want. I made the left plate about 6 inches larger that the right to allow more instruments on the side of the pilot. Fabian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Prior" <rv7(at)b4.ca> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel > > Is the panel symmetrical? ie. I'm planning on flying mine from the > right seat, could I just flip this whole thing left to right and have > the larger panel on the right? > > -RB4 > rv7 "at" b4.ca > RV-7 Empennage > > Fabian Lefler wrote: > > > > Dan, > > > > No tip-ups, yet. > > > > The main advantage of my Modular Panel is the accessibility is provides to > > the back of the instruments and/or the avionics stack, if needed. Another > > advantage is that major panel layouts changes, say going from steam gauges > > to a Blue Mountain or alike, can be easily accomplished by replacing the > > panel plates. For the tip-ups, accessibility to the back of the panel is > > not an issue, so I didn't think that enough builders would be interested in > > spending the extra money for just one advantage. That may change though. > > > > To give you an idea how inexpensive it is to change the layout of an > > airplane with this modular system, I sell replacement plates for the left > > side (pilot) for $80 and the right side (co-pilot) for $60. So if a builder > > ever decides to replace their steam gauges for a $10,000 Blue Mountain > > system, they'll have to allocate an additional $80.00 and/or $60 for the > > plate. Kidding aside, the big advantage is that the cutting, fiddling and > > painting of the replacement plate can be accomplished at the shop, while the > > airplane remains flying. Very little downtime. > > > > Regards, > > > > Fabian > > RV-9A (90292) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > > To: ; > > Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel > > > > > > > >> > >>Nice. The web site mentions it supports RV-7 and RV-9 sliders. How about > >>tip-ups? > >> > >>)_( Dan > >>RV-7 N714D (wings 99.9999% running out of 9s) > >>http://www.rvproject.com > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> > >>To: > >>Subject: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel > >> > >> > >> > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" > >>> > >>>I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have > >> > >>called > >> > >>>me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel, > >> > > after > > > >>it > >> > >>>was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27. > >>> > >>>As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our > >> > > orders. > > > >>>The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site > >>>http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in > >>>place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of > >> > >>the > >> > >>>questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone > >> > >>who > >> > >>>has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it > >>>better. > >>> > >>>Regards, > >>> > >>> > >>>Fabian Lefler > >>>RV-9A (90292) > >>>N292FL (Reserved) > >>>fablef(at)bellsouth.net > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>

Subject: 0.0000%
Date: Sep 05, 2002
Well, after putting more 9s at the end of my wing completion percentage for days/weeks (i.e. 99.9999%), I can finally use zeros again. Finished up the wings tonight...the fuselage crate is open and everything looks intact so far...can't wait to get this canoe into shape! Don't mind me, I'm just excited! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (*fuselage* 0.0000%) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2002
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: RE: 0.0000%
Wow Dan, it only seems like you started them a few weeks ago! Mark. RV7 #70660 Waiting for the QB wings & Fuselage. Should be here soon! Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 -----Original Message----- From: dan(at)rvproject.com Subject: RV7-List: 0.0000% > RV7 List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Well, after putting more 9s at the end of my wing completion percentage for days/weeks (i.e. 99.9999%), I can finally use zeros again. Finished up the wings tonight...the fuselage crate is open and everything looks intact so far...can't wait to get this canoe into shape! Don't mind me, I'm just excited! )_( Dan RV 7 N714D (*fuselage* 0.0000%) http://www.rvproject.com _ ======================================================================= _ = The RV7 List Email Forum _ = This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions of _ = List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other form _ = of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. _ ======================================================================= _ = !! NEW !! _ = Browse List: Use your web browser to view the latest messages. _ = Photo Share: Share photos and files with other List members. _ ======================================================================= _ = List Related Information _ = Post Message: rv7 list(at)matronics.com _ = UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription _ = Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare _ = Browse List: http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv7 list _ = Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search _ = Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives _ = List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/rv7 list _ = Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _ = Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution _ = Matronics: http://www.matronics.com/ _ ======================================================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Malecha" <azflyer(at)theriver.com>
Subject: re:Kit
Date: Sep 06, 2002
Does anyone know of an RV7 kit, untouched or project for sale? AL Malecha azflyer(at)theriver.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>

Subject: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types)
Date: Sep 08, 2002
1) I've heard a lot of opinions that you should use the Andair fuel selector instead of the Van's stock fuel selector since the Andair one is much smoother to operate. I'm just getting started with my fuselage, sorting through the hardware bags, and I tried out the stock Van's selector -- it's very smooth through the full range of motion. Is the Andair selector *that* much better and worth the extra money? 2) I'm not an A&P, so go easy on me...when would you use an AN365-1032 nut as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert and is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far as I've seen). 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and AN365-428A. Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any difference? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: Re: RV-List: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types)
Date: Sep 08, 2002
Bill, I think you might have nailed it...probably just a different manufacturer. I'm guessing Van's found a mfr that makes thinner (and thus LIGHTER) nuts...still haven't called or emailed them to confirm that, but I suspect you're right. Anyway, here are some photos which show the obvious physical differences between the thicker "A" and the thinner "non-A" nuts: http://www.rvproject.com/nuts.html )_( Dan > > ..when would you use an AN365-1032 nut > > as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert and > > is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far as > > I've seen). > > > > 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and AN365-428A. > > Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any difference? > > > > I have no idea what the "A" designation is for. The color usually pertains to > the manufacturer. Unless some specification calls out one versus the other, I > would consider them to be interchangeable. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KIMSEYCO(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 08, 2002
Subject: Re: RV-List: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types)
In a message dated 9/8/02 1:43:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes: > http://www.rvproject.com/nuts.html > i beleive that the nuts with a ( A) added to the part number are far use in tension and the ones without an (A) are only far use in a shear type application. it has some tension use but not to the bolts full strength. tom kimsey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>

Subject: Firewall construction questions
Date: Sep 10, 2002
First of all...this is for an RV-7 taildragger with an IO-360-A1B6... 1) F-601TD is the "brake plate" that goes on the lower left of the firewall. Is there any harm in drilling the two 7/16" holes through the plate and firewall now, or should I wait until I'm setting up the master cylinders and all that? 2) F-601Z is the "aux fuel firewall doubler" that goes on the bottom of the firewall and has two -4 nutplates for the "Facet Elec Fuel Pump" (apparently). I guess the question is twofold: a) Dwg 36 says "IF REQ'D; NOT PROVIDED IN KIT" -- does everybody use this type of fuel pump with the IO-360-A1B6? b) I assume I should wait until I have the pump in hand to drill the nutplate holes using the mounting brackets as a drill template...right? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2002
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
Subject: IK-2000 Flight & Engine Monitor
Does anyone have pictures of the IK-2000 Flight & Engine Monitor installed in your instrument panel? I am strongly considering installing this unit in my RV6 and was interested in seeing what others have done. Thanks Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jacobs" <jjrv9a(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Panel
Date: Sep 12, 2002
Today, I received my Modular Instrument Panel from Affordable Panels, and all I can say is WOW!!! I was very impressed with the panel kit. I feel like I just stroke gold. I mean, even the packaging was superb. I swear I fondle the pieces for an hour before I put them back in the box. Being the cheapest bastard that ever lived, I couldn't bring myself to spend any extra money on a panel. After all, you get one from Van's in the kit. But after seeing my friends at the airport under their panels on an almost daily basis, I thought forget that. I am getting this panel. As a matter of fact, I am sending Van his panel back for a $40 credit (I hope). I have spent a small fortune in this kit already and the bird is getting a very basic VFR panel with an IFR upgrade in the not so near future when funds allow it. The gentleman I spoke to over the phone when I ordered the panel kit, said my panel was the third one shipped to New Jersey alone. Has anyone else on the list gotten one of these things? John RV-9A Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2002
From: "Harry Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)mail.speednetllc.com>
Subject: Re: Panel
How do I get in touch with "affordable panels?" -------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "John Jacobs" <jjrv9a(at)hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:01:17 -0500 > >Today, I received my Modular Instrument Panel from Affordable Panels, and >all I can say is WOW!!! > >I was very impressed with the panel kit. I feel like I just stroke gold. I >mean, even the packaging was superb. I swear I fondle the pieces for an >hour before I put them back in the box. > >Being the cheapest bastard that ever lived, I couldn't bring myself to spend >any extra money on a panel. After all, you get one from Van's in the kit. >But after seeing my friends at the airport under their panels on an almost >daily basis, I thought forget that. I am getting this panel. As a matter >of fact, I am sending Van his panel back for a $40 credit (I hope). > >I have spent a small fortune in this kit already and the bird is getting a >very basic VFR panel with an IFR upgrade in the not so near future when >funds allow it. > >The gentleman I spoke to over the phone when I ordered the panel kit, said >my panel was the third one shipped to New Jersey alone. Has anyone else on >the list gotten one of these things? > >John >RV-9A >Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EddyFernan(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 13, 2002
Subject: Re: Panel
Try www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ I have one for my RV9a and I can't wait to start the installation! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: F-704 spacer bulkheads
Date: Sep 16, 2002
I'm finishing up the F-704 bulkhead, and the instructions call for making 1 7/16" spacer blocks to wedge between the A & B halves during test fitting. It sure seems to me like making super-accurate spacer blocks is overkill...isn't the intent just to see if all the holes line up? I've got a particle board sandwich that's 1 15/32"...off by 1/32"...but I'm thinking that will do just fine. Is this step a relic from older non-pre-punched kits, or is there something legitimate that I should be doing during this "check the fit" step? What would happen if I skipped this step entirely? Just curious... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2002
Subject: Re: F-704 spacer bulkheads
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 9/16/02 2:30 AM, Dan Checkoway at dan(at)rvproject.com wrote: > > I'm finishing up the F-704 bulkhead, and the instructions call for making 1 > 7/16" spacer blocks to wedge between the A & B halves during test fitting. > It sure seems to me like making super-accurate spacer blocks is > overkill...isn't the intent just to see if all the holes line up? > > I've got a particle board sandwich that's 1 15/32"...off by 1/32"...but I'm > thinking that will do just fine. Is this step a relic from older > non-pre-punched kits, or is there something legitimate that I should be > doing during this "check the fit" step? What would happen if I skipped this > step entirely? > > Just curious... > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > > > > Hi Dan & List I thought the same when it came to the spacers on the 704. I did make spacers out of scrap pieces of 2x6. You also have the piece of tubing on 1/4 in. bolts (used as spacers) between the 704 bulk head. One thing a guy should do is get 4 or 8 7/16 bolts and place them in where the fit bolts go (don't use the fit bolts). Make sure the threads go past the 704B.H. I removed the threads off the bolts and rounded them off so there is no chance of peeling of AL. when placing them in. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2002
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Riveting and rivet holes
Okay, I have started my RV-9 Empennage and have a some riveting questions. I tend to be a perfectionist and just want to make sure I don't get carried away for no reason... All the information I read about riveting emphasizes that the rivet hole should just fit the rivet (diameter). We carefully cleco everything together and match drill all the holes with the right size drill bit and then proceed to dimple most of them - which immediately enlarges the holes! Am I missing something here or is this what is expected? And if it is, why all the emphasis on the "correct hole size"? I have done some practice riveting (before I rivet the actual empennage) and find it goes okay except I sometimes get rivets that are not flush, And by not flush, I mean they are really sticking up. The shop head is okay (considering that the length used is less than on a rivet that is flush) but the head is way out there. I have tried varying how I rivet but nothing I do seems to affect it - I still get random rivets that stick up. Am I missing something here? Is there some technique that I don't have yet that prevents this? Or is it something that just happens and I will have to live with it and drill out the bad rivets? And speaking of bad rivets, I am able to drill them out just fine (plenty of practice :-) ), but the holes are then always slightly larger than the starting holes - and I have not touched the holes with the drill bit (just drill the head, break it off and drive out the rest of the rivet). When you think about this, it makes sense since you are expanding the rivet into the holes which pushes out on the edges of the holes - thereby enlarging them. The rivet discussions I have read says you can drill out the bad rivets and then re-rivet with the same size rivet. Is this okay, even though the hole is slightly larger? Or should one always use the oops rivets for a drilled out rivet? Thanks, Dick Tasker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting and rivet holes
Taking a guess I would say that you were not entirely on the rivet and or the gun was not perpendicular to the rivet. You might want to also buy the larger 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch dia tool for the gun. I rock the gun and feel for resistance up and down and side to side and then you can feel the flat portion of the tool making full contact. I usually do this on the first few rivets to get the feel for the proper gun angle and then just start riveting until I start on another row or column on a different surface. One more thing and I am sure people will think I am nuts, but I hold the gun in the right hand place my left hand on the sheet metal and then grab the tool with my fingers to keep it form sliding off the rivet. I dont know if this is right or not but it works for me. I have seen a QB kit and I can say that my riveting is just as good if not better using this method. > >Okay, I have started my RV-9 Empennage and have a some riveting >questions. I tend to be a perfectionist and just want to make sure I >don't get carried away for no reason... > >All the information I read about riveting emphasizes that the rivet hole >should just fit the rivet (diameter). We carefully cleco everything >together and match drill all the holes with the right size drill bit and >then proceed to dimple most of them - which immediately enlarges the >holes! Am I missing something here or is this what is expected? And if >it is, why all the emphasis on the "correct hole size"? > >I have done some practice riveting (before I rivet the actual empennage) >and find it goes okay except I sometimes get rivets that are not flush, > And by not flush, I mean they are really sticking up. The shop head is >okay (considering that the length used is less than on a rivet that is >flush) but the head is way out there. I have tried varying how I rivet >but nothing I do seems to affect it - I still get random rivets that >stick up. Am I missing something here? Is there some technique that I >don't have yet that prevents this? Or is it something that just happens >and I will have to live with it and drill out the bad rivets? > >And speaking of bad rivets, I am able to drill them out just fine >(plenty of practice :-) ), but the holes are then always slightly larger >than the starting holes - and I have not touched the holes with the >drill bit (just drill the head, break it off and drive out the rest of >the rivet). When you think about this, it makes sense since you are >expanding the rivet into the holes which pushes out on the edges of the >holes - thereby enlarging them. The rivet discussions I have read says >you can drill out the bad rivets and then re-rivet with the same size >rivet. Is this okay, even though the hole is slightly larger? Or >should one always use the oops rivets for a drilled out rivet? > >Thanks, Dick Tasker > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: usuable fuel
For you lucky people who are flying now, have/do you check to see where you will run out of gas and then switch the tanks? Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Riveting and rivet holes
Date: Sep 18, 2002
Dick, to answer your questions a. match drilling means that the two holes share the same axis, ie overlap is eliminated. When dimpled they expand by the same amount, about the same axis. If you do not match drill a good percentage of rivets wont pass thru the holes. b. c. If you have rivets standing proud the most likely fault is that you are not pushing hard enough on the squeezer or rivet gun. If that is not the problem then check the quality of your dimpling. Assuming competent rivet gun use, the quality of the dimpling determines the quality of the finish. d. On hole size there is some flexibility - a rivet will expand to fill an available hole to a reasonable extent, so there is moderate tolerance on a hole size. Rules of thumb, if the rivet is snug in the drilled out hole, rivet it, if a bit loose, go up a length, pre-squeeze it to fatten it up a bit, then rivet, if you see daylight around the rivet, drill it out and use an oversized rivet. The oversized rivet can be a reduced head rivet in all but the most heavily stressed areas. You will learn to maintain a stock of oversized and reduced head rivets to get you over many oops situations. Bad language helps too. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Richard Tasker [mailto:retasker(at)optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, 18 September 2002 8:35 To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Riveting and rivet holes Okay, I have started my RV-9 Empennage and have a some riveting questions. I tend to be a perfectionist and just want to make sure I don't get carried away for no reason... ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: usuable fuel
Date: Sep 18, 2002
Scott, The short answer is no. To keep the aircraft balanced the usual convention is to change tanks on the hour and every half hour. There are variations to this theme like climb on one tank, switch at top of climb then again at every navigation waypoint, etc. Its also very wise to have predicted fuel onboard at each waypoint to detect any non-engine usage, like via a leak or fuel cap not secured. A fuel totaliser will not detect such unplanned losses. David Francis, VH-ZEE, Australia. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 18 September 2002 9:13 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: usuable fuel For you lucky people who are flying now, have/do you check to see where you will run out of gas and then switch the tanks? ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting and rivet holes
Date: Sep 17, 2002
> Manufactured heads sticking up............your die is not flush with the > material when you set the rivet. Make sure your die is down on the material > and squeeze or hammer away. Or it's possible you put too much pressure on the rivet with the bucking bar before you started shooting the rivet...gotta make sure the gun always has more pressure on it than the bucking bar. )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Riveting and rivet hol
es
Date: Sep 18, 2002
Dick, Real plane parts flop around too. Don't hesitate to secure the work in a vice, clamp it to a work bench, or tape it all up. Regards, David Francis. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Richard E. Tasker [mailto:retasker(at)optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, 18 September 2002 13:30 To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV9-List: Riveting and rivet holes Thanks for all the great suggestions and encouragement! Now that I have the feedback, I think my main problem is that the practice piece is kinda flapping in the breeze and I really need three hands to rivet it properly. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: usuable fuel
I understand all this but I would like to know how much of the fuel is really useable. How much will be left in the tank when the engine quits? I have had people tell me 1/2 gal others 1 1/2 gal. Not that I would ever want to run on vapors but the need to know could be important someday. > > >Scott, > >The short answer is no. To keep the aircraft balanced the usual convention >is to change tanks on the hour and every half hour. There are variations to >this theme like climb on one tank, switch at top of climb then again at >every navigation waypoint, etc. > >Its also very wise to have predicted fuel onboard at each waypoint to detect >any non-engine usage, like via a leak or fuel cap not secured. A fuel >totaliser will not detect such unplanned losses. > >David Francis, VH-ZEE, Australia. > >Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 18 September 2002 9:13 > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: usuable fuel > > > > For you lucky people who are flying now, have/do you check >to see where you > will run out of gas and then switch the tanks? > > > > > >********************************************************************** >This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they >are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify >the system manager. > >This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by >MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > >www.mimesweeper.com >********************************************************************** > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: usuable fuel
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Scott, When commissioning your fuel system put the tail on a trestle to represent flying attitude, disconnect the fuel line from the carby and run it into a bucket. Put some fuel in the tanks and run the fuel pump till it stops flowing. Put the tail on the ground and drain the remaining fuel and measure it. There is the accurte answer. In reality its driven by the distance between the fuel pickup from the floor of the tank. If its right on the floor your airworthiness inspector may get nervous about picking up sludge & swarf left over from construction. Too high and you have too much unusable fuel. I am compromising by having is in clear of the floor. Trick - position the pickup directly over the drain plug. If the inspector wants it more unusable fuel to guard against sludge pickup, you just unscrew the drain and bend it up by pushing it up with a screwdriver thru the drain plug hole. Beats removing the wings. At the same time if you measure the fuel going in, you can calibrate your fuel gauges. Hope this is useful David Francis Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 0:12 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED : RV7-List: usuable fuel I understand all this but I would like to know how much of the fuel is really useable. How much will be left in the tank when the engine quits? I have had people tell me 1/2 gal others 1 1/2 gal. Not that I would ever want to run on vapors but the need to know could be important someday. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LGLomheim(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 18, 2002
Subject: Re: Riveting and rivet holes
Dick: It sounds like you are putting to much press on the bucking bar for the first hit of the rivet gun. If you pust the rivet out of the hole an get a hit from the rivet gun it starts to enlarge the rivet on the head side and will not go back into the hole where it should be seated...All the best. Lou Lomheim (RV7a) Installing wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LGLomheim(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 18, 2002
Subject: Re: usuable fuel
Scott: I have checked the useable amount by running one tank dry in flight with plenty of fuel in the other tank. Fill the tank on the ground and record the amount. The specs on the aircraft should have the tank volume recorded. The difference gives you your useable. Should not have the specs.--use the tank drain and get it empty as possible and repeat the above. Lou Lomheim RV7a--installing wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Flylow38(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Subject: Chutes for sale
>2 Pilot Emergency Chutes For Sale. Used in my RV4 for 6 months. Very >compact. > > Chute 1 is a Red 26' foot Micro Softie with Quick release buckles.$550.00 Lowered from $750.00. MFG. June-1988, it is a STRONG Mid Lite 26' canopy >The container is a Micro Softie and was MFG. May 1989. It was used a few >times in 1993 but thats about it except for my occasional use last year. > > > Chute 2 is a Blue with red trim National backpack 360 with sheepskin >padding.>The National 360 was MFG. Dec. 1985. 24' Phantom Canopy. > > WAS $575.00 now $450.00>Both chutes were repacked last year and are in excellent >condition.> > Located in Southern California. I Paid $1450.00 for both, I will sell for >$950 for both. Buyer Pays shipping. Located in Southern California, I can meet possibly half way to pick up depending on distance. > > Contact Will Whiteside 818-359-1106 whiteside(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Riveting and rivet holes
Date: Sep 21, 2002
> All the information I read about riveting emphasizes that the rivet hole > should just fit the rivet (diameter). We carefully cleco everything > together and match drill all the holes with the right size drill bit and > then proceed to dimple most of them - which immediately enlarges the > holes! Are you using a #40 drill bit? On all the skin holes that will get dimpled, I usd the slightly smaller #41 drill bit from Avery. Machined holes got the #40 drill bit. > I have done some practice riveting (before I rivet the actual empennage) > and find it goes okay except I sometimes get rivets that are not flush, > And by not flush, I mean they are really sticking up. The shop head is > okay (considering that the length used is less than on a rivet that is > flush) but the head is way out there. Now you are getting into technique. You will improve with experience. It sound like you are pressing harder with the bucking bar than you are with the rivet gun. I find that the gun should be held against the skin with the same firm pressure for the entire riveting process. This is a firm pressure, not an super strong all you can do. The bucking bar has to be held in contact durning the entire process but the pressure should be slightly progressive. At first it should not be as much as you are holding the gun on with. After the first rattles the pressure should be increased. Never let the bucking bar rattle loose, it is like a hammer on al the interior pieces. I use electrical tape all around the bucking bars and in strips along the ribs and bulkheads where the bar will pass close. When done pull it away and there is not a scratch to be seen. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2002
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Inch-pound torque wrenches
I purchased a $55 inch-pound (Pittsburg brand) torque wrench from Habor Freight. The wrench worked as specified only the first try. I broke an AN365-1032 bolt using this "precision tool." It's been returned - I've been looking for a gauge type 10-50 in. lb torque wrench with no success. Snap-on sells a $192 click type that looks just like the Pittsburg tool, forget that! I may forgo the tool and estimate torque by feel - that is unless someone can recommend a good alternative. Thanks, John Burns Albquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Inch-pound torque wrenches
I have bought a couple on Ebay lately One inch pound 1/4 drive and one 3/8 drive I paid about 80 -90 dollars each both were snap on brand received them and both look brand new came from military contractor surplus in CA Cary --- John Burns wrote: > > > I purchased a $55 inch-pound (Pittsburg brand) > torque wrench from Habor Freight. The wrench worked > as specified only the first try. I broke an > AN365-1032 bolt using this "precision tool." It's > been returned - I've been looking for a gauge type > 10-50 in. lb torque wrench with no success. Snap-on > sells a $192 click type that looks just like the > Pittsburg tool, forget that! I may forgo the tool > and estimate torque by feel - that is unless someone > can recommend a good alternative. > > Thanks, > John Burns > Albquerque, NM > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2002
Subject: Antenna
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
I haven looked to hard yet, for making a antenna to install in wing tips. That is for radios ELT etc. Any of you guys have any info on this? Scott Trask IMT MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Britt Crowell" <britt(at)fortcollins.com>
Subject: Re: Inch-pound torque wrenches
Date: Sep 22, 2002
Sears click style ~$70 good wrench inch/pounds http://www.sears.com/sr/product/summary/productsummary.jsp?BV_SessionID@@@@1690758985.1032746196@@@@&BV_EngineIDcchfadcgfieggelcehgcemgdffmdfim.0&verticalTOOL&bidsite&pid00944593000 Britt Crowell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: wing fit
Date: Sep 24, 2002
Making some last minute checks on the wing spar vs the fuse spar box. My calipers said that the wing spar and fuse spar box is only 0.015 difference ! Is this going to be enough room ? Any thoughts or hints from anyone who has prefitted or mounted their wings ? I am at the stage were I am about to rivet the fuselage 770 skins to all the longerons. I have a wood spacer in the box and thinking that maybe I ought to open up the box a hair more. Thanks Wayne RV7a fuse in Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
Subject: Re: wing fit
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 9/24/02 4:52 PM, Wayne Pedersen at wayne(at)pedersentransport.com wrote: > > Making some last minute checks on the wing spar vs the fuse spar box. > My calipers said that the wing spar and fuse spar box is only 0.015 > difference ! > Is this going to be enough room ? > Any thoughts or hints from anyone who has prefitted or mounted their wings ? > I am at the stage were I am about to rivet the fuselage 770 skins to all the > longerons. I have a wood spacer in the box and thinking that maybe I ought > to open up the box a hair more. > > Thanks > > Wayne > RV7a fuse in Southern Alberta > > > > > > > > Hi Wayne I would think you would be ok. When it comes time to put the wings in you can round the edges off on the wing spars and lube them up. I had to loosen some bolts up on the center section it made a lot easier to insert and adjust the wing. Call Van's or email them. support(at)vansaircraft.com 503 678 6545 EX 4 Scott Trask IMT MI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: wing fit
After machine spacers to the exact size of the spar (per Vans) leaving them in place until time to plug the wings in. I thought there would be no problem. Well one side closed up .020 after removing the spacers. I was very worried .020 SMALLER than the spar!!!!. I called Vans they said dont worry they have never heard of wings not fitting. Well, when it came time to install the wings it was a non issue, they went right in. > >Making some last minute checks on the wing spar vs the fuse spar box. >My calipers said that the wing spar and fuse spar box is only 0.015 >difference ! >Is this going to be enough room ? >Any thoughts or hints from anyone who has prefitted or mounted their wings ? >I am at the stage were I am about to rivet the fuselage 770 skins to all the >longerons. I have a wood spacer in the box and thinking that maybe I ought >to open up the box a hair more. > >Thanks > >Wayne >RV7a fuse in Southern Alberta > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Complete Parts List
Date: Sep 27, 2002
It would be a great service to all builders, including me, if there was a complete list of all the parts not supplied in the standard kits and finish kits by Vans to complete the RV7/7A. I have already started a list of necessary items I don't think are in the kits. I'd like to get a complete list so that parts could be ordered all at once rather than piece meal like I have been doing: Prop Prop Spinner Prop Hub Cooling Baffle kit Blast tubing for cooling parts under the cowling Tie Wraps Panel Instruments, switches and wires of all kinds that are too many to list Radios and antennas as an option for some Required VFR panel instruments (compass, fuel, and oil pressure gauges, airspeed indicator, altimeter, and tach. Seat Belts Seats Upholstery Sound Proofing Material engine vibration mounts exhaust muff and cabin heating stuff, throttle & mixture cable carb heat cable ignition switch Canopy Lock faucet fuel pump for O-360 engine Engine with all necessary accessories Larry in Indiana, working on RV7 Fuselage (presently making fuel lines) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>

Subject: Question: when to drill F-688 gusset?
Date: Sep 27, 2002
I've got a question about drilling the F-688 aft top fuselage gusset...when's the best time to drill that sucker? RV-7 tip-up in case that matters. I assume once the skeleton of the aft fuselage is together and square, you can lay it right on there and back-drill outward, but I figured I'd ask in case you're supposed to drill it sooner than that. Thanks, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Question: when to drill F-688 gusset?
Date: Sep 29, 2002
Dan, I drilled the F688 when I drilled the top skin. I don't plan to rivet it until I rivet on the top skin. I plan to do that later after I feel pretty sure I got most all things done in the aft of the plane. That will probably be after I get the finish kit and can look at what challenges it seems to present me. Indiana Larry RV7 - Working on 3XG Fuselage and trying to make fuel and vent lines ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV7-List: Question: when to drill F-688 gusset? > > I've got a question about drilling the F-688 aft top fuselage > gusset...when's the best time to drill that sucker? RV-7 tip-up in case > that matters. > > I assume once the skeleton of the aft fuselage is together and square, you > can lay it right on there and back-drill outward, but I figured I'd ask in > case you're supposed to drill it sooner than that. > > Thanks, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Question: when to drill F-688 gusset?
Date: Sep 29, 2002
Thanks for confirming this. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Question: when to drill F-688 gusset? > > Dan, I drilled the F688 when I drilled the top skin. I don't plan to rivet > it until I rivet on the top skin. I plan to do that later after I feel > pretty sure I got most all things done in the aft of the plane. That will > probably be after I get the finish kit and can look at what challenges it > seems to present me. > > Indiana Larry > > RV7 - Working on 3XG Fuselage and trying to make fuel and vent lines > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > To: ; ; > > Subject: RV7-List: Question: when to drill F-688 gusset? > > > > > > I've got a question about drilling the F-688 aft top fuselage > > gusset...when's the best time to drill that sucker? RV-7 tip-up in case > > that matters. > > > > I assume once the skeleton of the aft fuselage is together and square, you > > can lay it right on there and back-drill outward, but I figured I'd ask in > > case you're supposed to drill it sooner than that. > > > > Thanks, > > )_( Dan > > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Complete Parts List
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Add to the list: For those who wish to fly in the dark, Nav lights, Strobes & power supply, Electrical design advice, See the aeroelectric list and Aerolectric Connection web site. Electrical power generation, distribution and grounding devices, cables, fuses/breakers, connectors and busses. Instrument and map lights. Pockets to put sunglasses, flight manual, airport and approach data, maps, your drink and lunch, camera. Sunshade, Alodine & paint. David A Francis Commander RAN Action Plan for People Team 02 6266 4980 (Office) 02 6266 2416 (Fax) Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: LarryRobertHelming [mailto:lhelming(at)sigecom.net] Sent: Saturday, 28 September 2002 0:19 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Complete Parts List It would be a great service to all builders, including me, if there was a complete list of all the parts not supplied in the standard kits and finish kits by Vans to complete the RV7/7A. I have already started a list of necessary items I don't think are in the kits. I'd like to get a complete list so that parts could be ordered all at once rather than piece meal like I have been doing: Prop Prop Spinner Prop Hub Cooling Baffle kit Blast tubing for cooling parts under the cowling Tie Wraps Panel Instruments, switches and wires of all kinds that are too many to list Radios and antennas as an option for some Required VFR panel instruments (compass, fuel, and oil pressure gauges, airspeed indicator, altimeter, and tach. Seat Belts Seats Upholstery Sound Proofing Material engine vibration mounts exhaust muff and cabin heating stuff, throttle & mixture cable carb heat cable ignition switch Canopy Lock faucet fuel pump for O-360 engine Engine with all necessary accessories Larry in Indiana, working on RV7 Fuselage (presently making fuel lines) Contributions of other form messages. members. http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv7-list http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: pictures of bending longerons?
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Anybody have any online (or emailable) pictures of bending the longerons? I've got a half decent picture in my head of how I'm going to do it, but a photo or two would help complete the picture a bit. Any tips and tricks or advice are much appreciated. Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "peter decraene" <peterdecraene(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: pictures of bending longerons?
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Dan, Take the paper template and trace it on to a thin piece of plywood, it is much easier to work with. Follow Van's instructions for bending and it should work fine. Use a rubber mallet and a vise to hold the longeron and don't be timid when whacking it. It is OK if you over bend slightly because it will twist as you bend it and when you take the twist out you will also take out a little bend. Pete DeCraene N526PD fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV7-List: pictures of bending longerons? > > Anybody have any online (or emailable) pictures of bending the longerons? > I've got a half decent picture in my head of how I'm going to do it, but a > photo or two would help complete the picture a bit. Any tips and tricks or > advice are much appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com>
Subject: Re: pictures of bending longerons?
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Dan, check out my recent pics of bending the longerons here. http://bmnellis.com/FuselageJigging.htm Mike Nellis http://www.bmnellis.com Austin, TX Stinson 108-2 N9666K RV-6 N699BM (Fuselage) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> ; Subject: RV7-List: pictures of bending longerons? > > Anybody have any online (or emailable) pictures of bending the longerons? > I've got a half decent picture in my head of how I'm going to do it, but a > photo or two would help complete the picture a bit. Any tips and tricks or > advice are much appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: temp <stan.jones(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Top wing skins
I have finished the leading edge and the fuel tank, and am about to rivet on the top skins. The fit between the leading edge and and the top skins is perfect, an absolutly no gap joint. The Aircraft Engineer who is signing off my work wants me to file off the forward edge of the top skin to leave a ten thou. gap. The reason -- the heat from the sun will expand the skin and crack the paint along the joint. I am quite proud of how well I have things fitting, and am not too happy about doing this. What do you think ? Stan Jones New Zealand ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: fuselage questions: J-channel trimmings & tailcone skin fit
Date: Oct 02, 2002
RV-7 tip-up tailwheel Question 1: It's unclear to me exactly how to trim the aft ends of the F-786 J-channels. The drawing shows one of the 3 sets, but it sort of implies that most of it is left to trial fitting. Since Van's has you trim the ends at this phase, I'm curious if it's something that's better left until the assembly starts coming together? Question 2: I'm at the point where I've clecoed the tailcone skin to the F-711 and F-712 bulkheads, and it's a pretty crappy fit the way the pre-punched holes are spaced...or maybe the way the skin is curved. I'm just curious if anybody else had any fit issues back there and how you remedied it. This is reminiscent of drilling the fuel tank ribs! Is there any sort of trick to getting the F-712 bulkhead or the tailcone skin to get along better? Times like this, the pre-punched stuff is a real pain! 8 ) Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
czech-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, glasair-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com, pelican-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com, rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com, rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com, tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, ultralight-list(at)matronics.com, warbird-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In Saturday, October 19, 2002, Hampton Roads Exec (PVG), Virginia, 9AM till 7PM Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is 27nm SW of Norfolk, Virginia (253 radial ?ORF) AWOS 118.375 CTAF 123.0 The weather will be a perfect Virginia fall day! Aircraft parking is off taxiway between Rwy 23 and T-Hangars East of Airport Terminal Schedule of Events Fly-In Begins 9AM Food all Day 10AM ? 3PM Poker Run (Walk Around Field) Project Visits on Field Aircraft Judging 11AM ? 3PM, All Categories, Antiques, Classics, Homebuilts, Warbirds Social Hour 4PM Dinner 5PM ? 7PM, BBQ Sandwiches, Chicken, Drinks Local motels/hotels are available For More Information Frank Toy 757-460-3680 ftoy(at)att.net Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743 rvreynolds(at)macs.net EAA Chapter 339 http://home.earthlink.net/~avyator/ Hampton Roads Exec Airport http://www.hamptonroadsexecutiveairport.com/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: Tailcone skin hole for tailwheel spring bolt/nut?
Date: Oct 06, 2002
RV-7 tailwheel tip-up I'm about to drill a 5/8" hole in the bottom of my tailcone skin to be able to get a socket around the AN365-428 nut that goes on the bottom of the tailwheel spring mount (bolt going through the mount & spring), just aft of the F-711 bulkhead. I couldn't find a single mention of this in the drawings, but it sure seems like a foregone conclusion that it has to happen, since the nut isn't going to clear the tailcone skin internally..and there theoretically may need to be a way to r&r the tailwheel spring at some future point. Can somebody just confirm for my sanity that this is status quo? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailcone skin hole for tailwheel spring bolt/nut?
dan I haven't done it yet but that's my intention also I can't imagine having to fish a nut into that spot I don't think a hole here will keep my airplane from flying Cary Rhodes --- Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > RV-7 tailwheel tip-up > > I'm about to drill a 5/8" hole in the bottom of my > tailcone skin to be able > to get a socket around the AN365-428 nut that goes > on the bottom of the > tailwheel spring mount (bolt going through the mount > & spring), just aft of > the F-711 bulkhead. I couldn't find a single > mention of this in the > drawings, but it sure seems like a foregone > conclusion that it has to > happen, since the nut isn't going to clear the > tailcone skin internally..and > there theoretically may need to be a way to r&r the > tailwheel spring at some > future point. > > Can somebody just confirm for my sanity that this is > status quo? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2002
Subject: Interior
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
The fire wall is that visible from the seats? I'm wondering if I should paint it or not. What are you guy's doing? Maybe some insulation for sound. I'm might use a texture paint or just paint for the interior. Right where the feet are I might use carpet Velcro to fasten it to the floor. Thanks Scott Trask IMT (MI) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMTHAXTON(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 06, 2002
Subject: Re: Tailcone skin hole for tailwheel spring bolt/nut?
On the 7QB, there is a small hole already in the skin. I temporaily installed the tailwheel weldment and then marked the weldment thru this hole to position the bolt that holds the spring to the weldment. Then I enlarged the access hole to fit the socket. BT \RV7QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Tailcone skin hole for tailwheel spring bolt/nut?
Date: Oct 07, 2002
Dan, I came to the same conclusion and drilled a hole there as well. You may have to ream it out a bit also. Yesterday, one of my leg gear slipped off my work bench and I scratched the powder coat Big time. Any one know how to fix this? Or will it chip off anyway as the gear flex? John N557RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Panel Tip
Date: Oct 08, 2002
Maybe I was stupid to not know this but yesterday I discovered that the Com Radios are too deep to fit between the panel and the bulkhead behind the panel. For those who haven't assembled the forward deck frames consider cutting holes for the radios (and perhaps the glove box) while it is easy. John Adams N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: fabrication stock question
Date: Oct 09, 2002
RV-7 tailwheel tip-up Here's a photo of the drawing, showing what I need to fabricate: http://www.rvproject.com/images/20021009_fabrication_stock_issue.jpg The center section requires these F-623A-FWD and F-623A-AFT spacers to be fabricated from AS3-032 x 2 3/4 x 3/4 stock. After looking, I couldn't find any .032 stock in that size (2 3/4 x 3/4). It's no big deal to cut these out of a larger sheet, but I wanted to double-check that I wasn't missing something...like it comes in such-and-such hardware bag or whatever. Anybody out there know the scoop? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2002
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Relatively quiet compressors
I have a Powermate oil-free compressor, and the noise is driving me nuts! I've been looking at various oil type compressors. Aside from performance and durability, does anyone want to give me their opinion on brands/models from a dB perspective? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ryan Severance" <ryanseverance(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Relatively quiet compressors
Date: Oct 09, 2002
I have been using the "Air America" portable horizontal compressors by DeVilbiss Air Power Company. See it about 1/2 way down the page: http://www.devap.com/compressors/index.asp I couldn't be happier with the noise level. I am working in a small garage, and have no enclosure around the compressor. I am able to carry on a normal conversation while it is running. Ryan Severance RV-7 Waiting for wings (next week!) >>> I have a Powermate oil-free compressor, and the noise is driving me nuts! I've been looking at various oil type compressors. Aside from performance and durability, does anyone want to give me their opinion on brands/models from a dB perspective? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Relatively quiet compressors
Date: Oct 10, 2002
Yes - - - Any air compressor that is BELT DRIVE and uses an OIL SUMP (not the oil free designs) will likely be quiet. Those oil-free, direct drive, 3450 RPM designs are an abomination (and they RUN HOT (!) too!). I have a Quincy (Quincy, Illinois?) air compressor from the Harbor Freight Company. It is built well and quiet. IMHO, air compressors should go "put-put-put" not some frenzied "djbdjbdjbdjdbdjdb" (say it really fast to get the effect!) Later, Linc I have a Powermate oil-free compressor, and the noise is driving me nuts! I've been looking at various oil type compressors. Aside from performance and durability, does anyone want to give me their opinion on brands/models from a dB perspective? ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Relatively quiet compressors
Someone once told me that most of the noise on a compressor comes from the air inlet. This came up in a conversation about how to build a metal airplane in an apartment building... 8-) He was referring specifically to belt-driven oiled compressors (because they were quietest to start with), and said that you could easily build a muffler and mount it on the inlet of the compressor and cut the noise down quite significantly. I've been meaning to build one for mine just out of curiosity to see how much better it could get, but haven't tried it yet. I have a Campbell Hausfield Extreme Duty 20gal, 5HP, belt-driven, oiled, twin cylinder compressor, which is loud when it's running, but not uncomfortably so. It's the only compressor I have handy so I can't really compare noise levels to anything else... -RB4 flyseaplane wrote: > > Yes - - - Any air compressor that is BELT DRIVE and uses an OIL SUMP (not > the oil free designs) will likely be quiet. Those oil-free, direct drive, > 3450 RPM designs are an abomination (and they RUN HOT (!) too!). > I have a Quincy (Quincy, Illinois?) air compressor from the Harbor Freight > Company. It is built well and quiet. > > IMHO, air compressors should go "put-put-put" not some frenzied > "djbdjbdjbdjdbdjdb" (say it really fast to get the effect!) > Later, > Linc > > > I have a Powermate oil-free compressor, and the noise is driving me nuts! > I've been looking at various oil type compressors. Aside from performance > and durability, does anyone want to give me their opinion on brands/models > from a dB perspective? > > > ------------------------------------------- > Introducing NetZero Long Distance > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2002
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Relatively quiet compressors
This is absolutely true. If you can build a muffler box to go over the air intake it will cut the noise very significantly. The sharp intake of air each compression cycle is what causes the most noise. The remainder is the belt and cooling air noise. Below is a crude "sketch" of a cross section of a suitable "muffler" (view it in fixed font). Make it out of whatever is convenient (wood is good) and fill it with foam (open cell) or fiberglass. Make sure it is not too small so it doesn't restrict the intake air. This will "even out" the intake pulses and quiet it down significantly. Depending on your compressor, you may not need so many baffles - possibly even just a box filled with foam or fiberglass. . ___________ Intake -> | | __ To compressor intake -> | | | | | | | | | | |___|___| Dick Rob Prior wrote: > >Someone once told me that most of the noise on a compressor comes from >the air inlet. This came up in a conversation about how to build a >metal airplane in an apartment building... 8-) > >He was referring specifically to belt-driven oiled compressors (because >they were quietest to start with), and said that you could easily build >a muffler and mount it on the inlet of the compressor and cut the noise >down quite significantly. > >I've been meaning to build one for mine just out of curiosity to see how >much better it could get, but haven't tried it yet. > >I have a Campbell Hausfield Extreme Duty 20gal, 5HP, belt-driven, oiled, >twin cylinder compressor, which is loud when it's running, but not >uncomfortably so. It's the only compressor I have handy so I can't >really compare noise levels to anything else... > >-RB4 > >flyseaplane wrote: > > >> >>Yes - - - Any air compressor that is BELT DRIVE and uses an OIL SUMP (not >>the oil free designs) will likely be quiet. Those oil-free, direct drive, >>3450 RPM designs are an abomination (and they RUN HOT (!) too!). >> I have a Quincy (Quincy, Illinois?) air compressor from the Harbor Freight >>Company. It is built well and quiet. >> >>IMHO, air compressors should go "put-put-put" not some frenzied >>"djbdjbdjbdjdbdjdb" (say it really fast to get the effect!) >>Later, >>Linc >> >> >> I have a Powermate oil-free compressor, and the noise is driving me nuts! >>I've been looking at various oil type compressors. Aside from performance >>and durability, does anyone want to give me their opinion on brands/models >>from a dB perspective? >> >> >>------------------------------------------- >>Introducing NetZero Long Distance >>Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! >>Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: fuselage skin question
Date: Oct 11, 2002
RV-7 tailwheel tip-up I'm about to rivet the side skins onto the aft fuselage, and there's a noticeable gap between the bottom edges of the side skins and the bottom skin. More than a fingernail's worth. I figure I can easily take the side skins off and edge roll 'em a little bit, but I wanted to see if others have had to do this or not. It sure doesn't look like the side skin edge will lay flat against the bottom skin, even once riveted. Of course just the other day I told somebody about the aileron skins and this same situation...that the skin lays flat as you rivet it. But I wanted to double check since it's sort of now or never (or else I'll have to drill out rivets). Any tips or perspective here is appreciated. Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "peter decraene" <peterdecraene(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage skin question
Date: Oct 11, 2002
Dan, I did edge roll mine just slightly but they were pretty tight even without. I did use the tank dimple die on the underlying skin and I think that helps every thing stay a little tighter. If you already dimpled it might be difficult to edge roll. Pete DeCraene RV7A fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV7-List: fuselage skin question > > RV-7 tailwheel tip-up > > I'm about to rivet the side skins onto the aft fuselage, and there's a > noticeable gap between the bottom edges of the side skins and the bottom > skin. More than a fingernail's worth. I figure I can easily take the side > skins off and edge roll 'em a little bit, but I wanted to see if others have > had to do this or not. It sure doesn't look like the side skin edge will > lay flat against the bottom skin, even once riveted. > > Of course just the other day I told somebody about the aileron skins and > this same situation...that the skin lays flat as you rivet it. But I wanted > to double check since it's sort of now or never (or else I'll have to drill > out rivets). > > Any tips or perspective here is appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: Re: RV-List: fuselage skin question
Date: Oct 11, 2002
Nevermind...just took the skins off and clecoed them from the BOTTOM UP and they sat nice and flat. Prior, I had clecoed them down the bulkhead sides to the bottom (just because it was easier to do it that way). Simple mistake. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> ; Subject: RV-List: fuselage skin question > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > RV-7 tailwheel tip-up > > I'm about to rivet the side skins onto the aft fuselage, and there's a > noticeable gap between the bottom edges of the side skins and the bottom > skin. More than a fingernail's worth. I figure I can easily take the side > skins off and edge roll 'em a little bit, but I wanted to see if others have > had to do this or not. It sure doesn't look like the side skin edge will > lay flat against the bottom skin, even once riveted. > > Of course just the other day I told somebody about the aileron skins and > this same situation...that the skin lays flat as you rivet it. But I wanted > to double check since it's sort of now or never (or else I'll have to drill > out rivets). > > Any tips or perspective here is appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Interior
Date: Oct 12, 2002
> The fire wall is that visible from the seats? I'm wondering if I should > paint it or not. What are you guy's doing? Maybe some insulation for sound. > I'm might use a texture paint or just paint for the interior. Right where > the feet are I might use carpet Velcro to fasten it to the floor. RV6A - I'm going to have my carpet take a 90 bend at the firewall and head up the firewall to the min height that it needs to be to hide the firewall when viewed from a seated position. It will attach with velco in a few spots. I have Becky's floor insulation. It is fireproof and completely fills to the height of the 3/4" angle stiffning the floor. Good product. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: securing aft fuselage on sawhorses?
Date: Oct 12, 2002
Just curious how others have secured the aft fuselage on sawhorses (or otherwise) when riveting the skins on. Seems to me that it would be easier both to secure and keep twist-free if it was flipped over and resting on some sort of feaux longerons or something. Any tips? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gsuit" <gsuit(at)ih2000.net>
Subject: Stress point paranoia
Date: Oct 13, 2002
I have just begun my emp kit, and already I seem to be stressing over what is the right amount of edge smoothing, priming and such. Let me be specific=85 As I was drilling the undersized holes on the emp rear spar hinge bearing assembly, I nicked the powdercoat down to bear metal. I believe this is not a primer issue, as the part is aluminum, however, the nicked place is not nice and smooth. Should I hit this with the scotchbrite, and if so, doesn=92t this now turn into a =91for sure=92 primer issue? Sorry for all the worrying=85I=92m sure I=92ll eventually find my tolerance level, but for now, can anyone help me? Clayton RV-7 Empennage N454CH --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Stress point paranoia
Date: Oct 13, 2002
To the best of my knowledge, all the powder coated stuff from Van's is steel (jeez, if only they primed aluminum parts!). I recently bought the little $2 thing of powder coat touch-up (Van's catalog) and I'm glad I did. There's a lot of touching up to be done on the fuselage stuff (i.e. control stick bases after shortening, seat belt brackets after trimming, etc.). I usually just Scotch Brite the exposed part, MEK or Acetone to clean it, then as soon as it's dry use the little touch-up dabber thing. I'm willing to accept that these parts might corrode through the touch-up at some point in the future, but hopefully they won't. I'm sure the best solution is to strip it down and epoxy prime it, but that's a little overkill for small chips and stuff in my opinion. Just my 2 cents, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gsuit" <gsuit(at)ih2000.net> Subject: RV7-List: Stress point paranoia > > I have just begun my emp kit, and already I seem to be stressing over > what is the right amount of edge smoothing, priming and such. Let me be > specific=85 > > As I was drilling the undersized holes on the emp rear spar hinge > bearing assembly, I nicked the powdercoat down to bear metal. I believe > this is not a primer issue, as the part is aluminum, however, the nicked > place is not nice and smooth. Should I hit this with the scotchbrite, > and if so, doesn=92t this now turn into a =91for sure=92 primer issue? > > Sorry for all the worrying=85I=92m sure I=92ll eventually find my tolerance > level, but for now, can anyone help me? > > Clayton > RV-7 Empennage > N454CH > > --- > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: securing aft fuselage on sawhorses?
Date: Oct 15, 2002
Hey Dan, You may already be done with this by now (sorry I have been out of town) I did all that riveting with the fuselage upside down on the saw horses. I got it as close to straight as possible and then riveted. You will still have a little 'twist room' left after the skins go on. The piece that really makes the fuse rigid is the aft deck. When the aft deck goes on you are through twisting the fuse. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV7-List: securing aft fuselage on sawhorses? > > Just curious how others have secured the aft fuselage on sawhorses (or > otherwise) when riveting the skins on. Seems to me that it would be easier > both to secure and keep twist-free if it was flipped over and resting on > some sort of feaux longerons or something. Any tips? > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2002
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
czech-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, glasair-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com, pelican-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com, rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com, rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com, tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, ultralight-list(at)matronics.com, warbird-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In Saturday, October 19, 2002, Hampton Roads Exec (PVG), Virginia, 9AM till 7PM Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is 13.5nm SW of Norfolk, Virginia (253 radial (ORF) AWOS 118.375 CTAF 123.0 The weather will really be a perfect Virginia fall day! Aircraft parking is off taxiway between Rwy 23 and T-Hangars East of Airport Terminal Schedule of Events Fly-In Begins 9AM Food all Day 10AM - 3PM Poker Run (Walk Around Field) Project Visits on Field Aircraft Judging 11AM - 3PM, All Categories, Antiques, Classics, Homebuilts, Warbirds Social Hour 4PM Dinner 5PM - 7PM, BBQ Sandwiches, Chicken, Drinks Local motels/hotels are available For More Information Frank Toy 757-460-3680 ftoy(at)att.net Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743 rvreynolds(at)macs.net EAA Chapter 339 http://home.earthlink.net/~avyator/ Hampton Roads Exec Airport http://www.hamptonroadsexecutiveairport.com/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Oct 16, 2002
"Re: RV-List: posting" (Oct 16, 6:40pm) rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added them later and forgot that about the forwarding. In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to keep everything consistant. However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding operation? Sounds like it they might... So let's vote! Drop me an email at: dralle(at)matronics.com with a simple: "Forward" or "Don't Forward" in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and announce the new method. Matt Dralle List Admin. >-------------- >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > >Gary, > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes >across on the main RV-list. > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the >main RV-List. > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't >understand that they need study the original message to see where it >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But, >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists. > >Kevin > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary" >> >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to >>the ones you want it to show up on. >> >>Gary >> >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >> >>Steve, >> >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list, ............... > > >-------------- -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2002
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv10-list(at)matronics.com
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only vote once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address will not be counted. Matt At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow" > >Matt, > >You're doing a great job managing this. > >Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> >Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) > > > > > > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its > > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists > > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the > > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added > > them later and forgot that about the forwarding. > > > > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to >keep > > everything consistant. > > > > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can > > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding > > operation? Sounds like it they might... > > > > So let's vote! Drop me an email at: > > > > dralle(at)matronics.com > > > > with a simple: > > > > "Forward" > > or > > "Don't Forward" > > > > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and > > announce the new method. > > > > > > Matt Dralle > > List Admin. > > > > > > >-------------- > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > > > > >Gary, > > > > > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's > > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get > > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes > > >across on the main RV-list. > > > > > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the > > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the > > >main RV-List. > > > > > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto > > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find > > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes > > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't > > >understand that they need study the original message to see where it > > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct > > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But, > > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists. > > > > > >Kevin > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary" > > >> > > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics > > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any > > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to > > >>the ones you want it to show up on. > > >> > > >>Gary > > >> > > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> > > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes > > >> > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > >> > > >>Steve, > > >> > > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific > > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy > > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV > > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list, ............... > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2002
From: Nouj <nouj(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/19/02
Not forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Greene" <timgreene@go-concepts.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/19/02
Date: Oct 21, 2002
?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nouj" <nouj(at)compuserve.com> Subject: RV7-List: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/19/02 > > Not forward > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2002
From: Virgil Young <vwyoung(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV7 quickbuild slider
I'm interested in a 180hp Lycoming which does not require air induction scoop on the lower cowling. My understanding is this requires a forward sump and horizontal induction. Would appreciate anyone's research along with recommended prop governor and constant speed prop.Virgil Young.#1017 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: RV7 quickbuild slider
Date: Oct 23, 2002
I talked to Superior Air Parts last week and they are developing a "cool air" induction system for the O-360 (acutally it would be for their XP-360, but it should fit the O) The system will keep the induction path outside the sump so the oil does not warm it up. This should increase power and efficiency. You will not be able to install a carb though. The sump would have the forward induction placement which would require a fuel injection servo because of the orientation. The carb would not work very well mounted at a 90 deg angle. If I understand it correctly you wouldn't want the fuel/air mixture from the carb to go straight to the jug anyway for carb ice reasons. I believe that was the reason for routing the fuel/air mixture through the sump in the first place. I am no engine expert so don't quote me on this! Just for reference moving to the Airflow Performance fuel injection system will be about a $2500 - $3000 net increase in the price of the engine. The sump is supposed to be ready sometime early next year. The Ellison TBI might work but you may still have to deal with a carb ice issue. Anyway to make a short story long this new sump would allow you to use the cowl from Van's that doesn't have the bottom scoop on it. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virgil Young" <vwyoung(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: RV7 quickbuild slider > > I'm interested in a 180hp Lycoming which does not require air induction scoop on the lower cowling. My understanding is this requires a forward sump and horizontal induction. Would appreciate anyone's research along with recommended prop governor and constant speed prop.Virgil Young.#1017 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2002
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder introduction)
I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the wing kit in a few weeks. I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes would actually create a better fit to the rivet. I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot shaft). Dick Tasker, 90573 Albert Gardner wrote: >--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" > >Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of >the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and >then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the >individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up >and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even >thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they >checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to >have fun. >Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ >RV-9A: N872RV >(After 2 years I can see the end from here.) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net> >To: >Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction > > > > >>--> RV9-List message posted by: RV9 >> >> >>Hello, >> >>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit >>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all >>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in >>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work >>on the VS. >> >>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's >>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my >>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions, >>motiviations, etc. are all welcome. >> >>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin >> >>Steve Mottin >>RV-9A Empennage >>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott W. Hatten" <ScottHatten(at)columbus.rr.com>

Subject: RV9A - Plans / Empennage
Date: Oct 23, 2002
Wanting to Purchase? Looking for anyone who might have purchased the RV9A plans, or the Empennage and have changed thier mind, or decided the project is too big? Scott W. Hatten Pataskala, OH N6153K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder
introduction) Your are correct about the hole size. I looked up the MIL SPEC and it showed something a little different than what we are getting. I called the factory, and to keep this short, just build it, it is way over built for the rivet hole size to be an issue. To be perfect it should be dimpled with the smallest pilot hole possible and then reamed to size. So do you want to build the rest of your life or do you want to fly in the near future? > >I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the >wing kit in a few weeks. > >I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes >always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging >the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the >drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the >rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes >would actually create a better fit to the rivet. > >I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That >is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions >to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without >saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before >dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot >shaft). > >Dick Tasker, 90573 > >Albert Gardner wrote: > >>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" > >> >>Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of >>the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and >>then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the >>individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up >>and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even >>thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they >>checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to >>have fun. >>Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ >>RV-9A: N872RV >>(After 2 years I can see the end from here.) >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net> >>To: >>Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV9-List message posted by: RV9 >>> >>> >>>Hello, >>> >>>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit >>>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all >>>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in >>>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work >>>on the VS. >>> >>>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's >>>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my >>>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions, >>>motiviations, etc. are all welcome. >>> >>>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin >>> >>>Steve Mottin >>>RV-9A Empennage >>>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2002
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder introduction)
Well, your last question is what mine is related to. Just dimpling would save substantial time over clecoing together, match drilling, then dimpling vs just dimpling it. If there are no drawbacks to this approach, then it would get us flying sooner! Dick Tasker, 90573 Scott Bilinski wrote: > >Your are correct about the hole size. I looked up the MIL SPEC and it >showed something a little different than what we are getting. I called the >factory, and to keep this short, just build it, it is way over built for >the rivet hole size to be an issue. To be perfect it should be dimpled with >the smallest pilot hole possible and then reamed to size. So do you want to >build the rest of your life or do you want to fly in the near future? > > > > >> >>I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the >>wing kit in a few weeks. >> >>I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes >>always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging >>the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the >>drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the >>rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes >>would actually create a better fit to the rivet. >> >>I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That >>is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions >>to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without >>saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before >>dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot >>shaft). >> >>Dick Tasker, 90573 >> >>Albert Gardner wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of >>>the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and >>>then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the >>>individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up >>>and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even >>>thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they >>>checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to >>>have fun. >>>Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ >>>RV-9A: N872RV >>>(After 2 years I can see the end from here.) >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net> >>>To: >>>Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> RV9-List message posted by: RV9 >>>> >>>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit >>>>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all >>>>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in >>>>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work >>>>on the VS. >>>> >>>>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's >>>>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my >>>>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions, >>>>motiviations, etc. are all welcome. >>>> >>>>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin >>>> >>>>Steve Mottin >>>>RV-9A Empennage >>>>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 8220 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2002
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder
introduction) If I had to do it over again (rivetiing 99% done at this time) I would consider not match drill, but at least deburr, which is very important. I would not even consider not doing it. Now I say this, and am no expert by any means. So that is why I always run my ideas past experts which is what I suggest to anyone deviating from the directions. > >Well, your last question is what mine is related to. Just dimpling >would save substantial time over clecoing together, match drilling, then >dimpling vs just dimpling it. If there are no drawbacks to this >approach, then it would get us flying sooner! > >Dick Tasker, 90573 > >Scott Bilinski wrote: > >> >>Your are correct about the hole size. I looked up the MIL SPEC and it >>showed something a little different than what we are getting. I called the >>factory, and to keep this short, just build it, it is way over built for >>the rivet hole size to be an issue. To be perfect it should be dimpled with >>the smallest pilot hole possible and then reamed to size. So do you want to >>build the rest of your life or do you want to fly in the near future? >> >> >> >> >>> >>>I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the >>>wing kit in a few weeks. >>> >>>I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes >>>always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging >>>the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the >>>drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the >>>rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes >>>would actually create a better fit to the rivet. >>> >>>I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That >>>is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions >>>to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without >>>saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before >>>dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot >>>shaft). >>> >>>Dick Tasker, 90573 >>> >>>Albert Gardner wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of >>>>the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and >>>>then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the >>>>individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up >>>>and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even >>>>thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they >>>>checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to >>>>have fun. >>>>Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ >>>>RV-9A: N872RV >>>>(After 2 years I can see the end from here.) >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net> >>>>To: >>>>Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>--> RV9-List message posted by: RV9 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Hello, >>>>> >>>>>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit >>>>>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all >>>>>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in >>>>>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work >>>>>on the VS. >>>>> >>>>>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's >>>>>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my >>>>>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions, >>>>>motiviations, etc. are all welcome. >>>>> >>>>>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin >>>>> >>>>>Steve Mottin >>>>>RV-9A Empennage >>>>>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >>Scott Bilinski >>Eng dept 8220 >>Phone (858) 657-2536 >>Pager (858) 502-5190 >> >> >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder introduction)
One downside, that has been discussed here before, is the problem of leaving potential crack forming locations. When the holes are punched, the machining marks left are parallel to the axis of the hole, i.e. across the edge of the sheet inside the hole. Dimpling this edge will stretch it a little bit, and place these machining marks in tension. Age, vibration, flight stresses, etc. *may* cause these marks to turn into microscopic cracks that could propagate into the skins. I say may, because the loads at those edges are likely to be extremely small. When you drill the holes before dimpling, you rotate the machining marks so they are now perpendicular to the axis of the hole, or parallel to the edge of the skins inside the hole. When these marks are stretched by dimpling, they are much less likely to cause microscopic stress fractures that could propagate into the skins at a later date. I agree that the risk is low of any of these microscopic cracks propagating into the skins. But at the same time, I would prefer not to leave myself open to any potential problems, when it takes such a short time to remove them. It's not *that* much of an inconvenience to assemble, drill, and then disassemble. Oh, and finally, the last time I heard someone ask the factory about this, they said to assemble, drill, and disassemble before dimpling. -RB4 Richard Tasker wrote: > > Well, your last question is what mine is related to. Just dimpling > would save substantial time over clecoing together, match drilling, then > dimpling vs just dimpling it. If there are no drawbacks to this > approach, then it would get us flying sooner! > > Dick Tasker, 90573 > > Scott Bilinski wrote: > > >> >>Your are correct about the hole size. I looked up the MIL SPEC and it >>showed something a little different than what we are getting. I called the >>factory, and to keep this short, just build it, it is way over built for >>the rivet hole size to be an issue. To be perfect it should be dimpled with >>the smallest pilot hole possible and then reamed to size. So do you want to >>build the rest of your life or do you want to fly in the near future? >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>>I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the >>>wing kit in a few weeks. >>> >>>I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes >>>always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging >>>the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the >>>drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the >>>rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes >>>would actually create a better fit to the rivet. >>> >>>I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That >>>is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions >>>to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without >>>saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before >>>dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot >>>shaft). >>> >>>Dick Tasker, 90573 >>> >>>Albert Gardner wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> RV9-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of >>>>the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and >>>>then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the >>>>individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up >>>>and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even >>>>thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they >>>>checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to >>>>have fun. >>>>Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ >>>>RV-9A: N872RV >>>>(After 2 years I can see the end from here.) >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net> >>>>To: >>>>Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>--> RV9-List message posted by: RV9 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Hello, >>>>> >>>>>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit >>>>>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all >>>>>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in >>>>>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work >>>>>on the VS. >>>>> >>>>>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's >>>>>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my >>>>>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions, >>>>>motiviations, etc. are all welcome. >>>>> >>>>>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin >>>>> >>>>>Steve Mottin >>>>>RV-9A Empennage >>>>>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>Scott Bilinski >>Eng dept 8220 >>Phone (858) 657-2536 >>Pager (858) 502-5190 >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2002
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv10-list(at)matronics.com
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
Hey RV Listers, Okay, so I really don't mean to drag this out, but unbelievably, we have a dead heat between "Forward" votes and "Don't Forward" votes! I had no idea the opinion would run so close!! I've gotten a little over 100 votes so far and it is literally a 50/50 split to the vote on which way to go. Over the last week or so, each day I've gotten a couple of votes to Forward, then a couple of votes to Not Forward - back and forth. With this many people on both sides of the fence, no matter which way wins, there's gonna be a lot of disappointed people! And I thought this vote would make it easy for me to decide... I'm going to keep the polls open until Sunday afternoon at 5pm pst, and just go with the method that has the most votes - even if its just 1 or 2 votes. This is just like the Bush/Gore election; I'm down to counting chad... You guys from Florida get your votes in! :-) Here's how to vote - follow closely to make it easiest for me to count: -- To Vote FORWARD -- * This means that you would like to have any messages posted to the RV-specific lists automatically forwarded to the main RV-List. Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com Make the SUBJECT line: "Forward" -- To Vote DON'T FORWARD -- * This means that you don't want messages posted to the RV-specific lists automatically forwarded to the main RV-List. Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com Make the SUBJECT line: "Don't Forward" If you care, here's your chance to make a difference! Get your vote in before Sunday at 5pm pst. I'll announce the winner Sunday night... Hey - and there's only voting one time, you guys! You know who you are... :-) Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ============================================================================== Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only vote once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address will not be counted. Matt At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow" > >Matt, > >You're doing a great job managing this. > >Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> >Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) > > > > > > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its > > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists > > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the > > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added > > them later and forgot that about the forwarding. > > > > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to >keep > > everything consistant. > > > > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can > > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding > > operation? Sounds like it they might... > > > > So let's vote! Drop me an email at: > > > > dralle(at)matronics.com > > > > with a simple: > > > > "Forward" > > or > > "Don't Forward" > > > > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and > > announce the new method. > > > > > > Matt Dralle > > List Admin. > > > > > > >-------------- > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > > > > >Gary, > > > > > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's > > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get > > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes > > >across on the main RV-list. > > > > > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the > > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the > > >main RV-List. > > > > > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto > > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find > > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes > > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't > > >understand that they need study the original message to see where it > > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct > > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But, > > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists. > > > > > >Kevin > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary" > > >> > > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics > > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any > > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to > > >>the ones you want it to show up on. > > >> > > >>Gary > > >> > > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> > > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes > > >> > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > >> > > >>Steve, > > >> > > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific > > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy > > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV > > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list, ............... > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMTHAXTON(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 26, 2002
Subject: RV-7QB
I'm trying to fit the slider canopy frame to the fuselage with little success. If I get the rear bow set at 1/8" lower at the slide track, the gap gets progressively wider as I work towards the sides, appreciate advice from someone who has a completed their slider canopy. Thanks ramthaxton@aol ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: 0-360
Date: Oct 26, 2002
I have a 0-360-A3A in the overhaul shop right now and would like to sell it when it is done. Anyone interested? Working on the instrument panel right now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 27, 2002
Subject: Canopy Frame
In a message dated 10/26/02 10:54:35 PM, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << I'm trying to fit the slider canopy frame to the fuselage with little success. If I get the rear bow set at 1/8" lower at the slide track, the gap gets progressively wider as I work towards the sides, appreciate advice from someone who has a completed their slider canopy. >> Beg, borrow or steal the current "RVator" It has an extensive article by Scott McDaniel from Van's on the nuances of building the slider. Wish I had seen it 6 months ago when I was doing mine, would have saved hours of work and speculation. Bottom line on the slider frame is that you must bend it to fit your airplane. It's not that hard to bend once you figure out how to do it. Helps if you know how to make wooden jigs to hold it while you tweak it. Seriously, if you don't subscribe to the RVator, now is a good time to call Van's. $20 a year is way more than worth it. Also buy the "21 years of the RVator" In my mind, has so much good tech advice should be included with every kit. Hope this helps. Jerry Cochran RV6a/Finish kit Wilsonville,OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2002
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv10-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) (The Final VOTE!)
Dear RV Listers, Okay, its after 5pm pst on Sunday and as promised, I've closed the polls. I've counted the votes and recounted the votes, and even double checked all of the Chad and the totals keep coming up the same. Are you ready for this spread? Here is the official vote count: 95 votes: Forward 96 votes: Don't Forward Unbelievable, I know. The totals ran within 1 to 2 votes of each other the entire voting period. I couldn't believe it either. How could the split be so close? Perhaps I should have turned to the Electoral College for assistance... Or maybe Florida... :-) Much to Gore's delight, the popular vote really did count! So, the people have spoken and as of 5:19pm pst I have disabled the auto forwarding from the RV-specific Lists to the main RV-List. As I mentioned earlier, I really was on the fence about the right way, so thanks to everyone for helping with the decision! Isn't democracy great! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. Hey RV Listers, Okay, so I really don't mean to drag this out, but unbelievably, we have a dead heat between "Forward" votes and "Don't Forward" votes! I had no idea the opinion would run so close!! I've gotten a little over 100 votes so far and it is literally a 50/50 split to the vote on which way to go. Over the last week or so, each day I've gotten a couple of votes to Forward, then a couple of votes to Not Forward - back and forth. With this many people on both sides of the fence, no matter which way wins, there's gonna be a lot of disappointed people! And I thought this vote would make it easy for me to decide... I'm going to keep the polls open until Sunday afternoon at 5pm pst, and just go with the method that has the most votes - even if its just 1 or 2 votes. This is just like the Bush/Gore election; I'm down to counting chad... You guys from Florida get your votes in! :-) Here's how to vote - follow closely to make it easiest for me to count: -- To Vote FORWARD -- * This means that you would like to have any messages posted to the RV-specific lists automatically forwarded to the main RV-List. Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com Make the SUBJECT line: "Forward" -- To Vote DON'T FORWARD -- * This means that you don't want messages posted to the RV-specific lists automatically forwarded to the main RV-List. Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com Make the SUBJECT line: "Don't Forward" If you care, here's your chance to make a difference! Get your vote in before Sunday at 5pm pst. I'll announce the winner Sunday night... Hey - and there's only voting one time, you guys! You know who you are... :-) Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ============================================================================== Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only vote once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address will not be counted. Matt At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow" > >Matt, > >You're doing a great job managing this. > >Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> >Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) > > > > > > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its > > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists > > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the > > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added > > them later and forgot that about the forwarding. > > > > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to >keep > > everything consistant. > > > > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can > > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding > > operation? Sounds like it they might... > > > > So let's vote! Drop me an email at: > > > > dralle(at)matronics.com > > > > with a simple: > > > > "Forward" > > or > > "Don't Forward" > > > > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and > > announce the new method. > > > > > > Matt Dralle > > List Admin. > > > > > > >-------------- > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > > > > >Gary, > > > > > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's > > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get > > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes > > >across on the main RV-list. > > > > > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the > > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the > > >main RV-List. > > > > > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto > > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find > > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes > > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't > > >understand that they need study the original message to see where it > > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct > > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But, > > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists. > > > > > >Kevin > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary" > > >> > > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics > > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any > > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to > > >>the ones you want it to show up on. > > >> > > >>Gary > > >> > > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> > > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes > > >> > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > >> > > >>Steve, > > >> > > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific > > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy > > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV > > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list, ............... > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: control mount bracket interfering with bottom skin rivets
Date: Oct 28, 2002
RV-7 tailwheel tip-up Just curious how other builders have handled the following interference issue...the control column mount brackets that bolt to the aft half of the F-704 bulkhead seem to preclude being able to buck a couple of rivets along the bottom flange of the bulkhead (coming up through the center fuselage bottom skin). Do most people just put pop rivets in those spots? Just curious if there's a trick to allow using solid rivets. I had thought that maybe I could keep the mounting brackets off until the skin was riveted, but there would be no good way to torque the nuts since they're between the bulkhead halves. Any tips? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: control mount bracket interfering with bottom skin rivets
Date: Oct 29, 2002
Take them off and rivet. They will go back on and the torque value is not that critical. You should be able to guess if they are tight enough. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: control mount bracket interfering with bottom skin rivets
Date: Oct 29, 2002
Yes. I had no problem. If you don't have a wrench with a long handle tape one on to it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2002
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Rudder trailing edge installation
I am getting ready to install the trailing edge wedge in the rudder. Everything is riveted except the trailing edge and a few rivets near the trailing edge per the instructions. If I cleco it all together (everything was match-drilled, the skin is dimpled and the wedge is countersunk) I end up with slight "oil canning" of the skins. That is, if I press on one section between stiffeners the adjacent section pops out a little. I say "oil canning" but the section that pops out only stays out as long as pressure is applied to the adjacent section - so I guess it is not true oil canning where there are two stable states. There are two or three sections like this on each side. The trailing edge is straight as an arrow so that is not a problem. I suspect that this is just life and is probably impossible to totally eliminate since the rudder sides are flat (rather than all other control surfaces that have some curve in them). In any case, is this a problem? If so, what can I do about it? Thanks, Dick. 90573 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Rudder trailing edge installation
Date: Oct 31, 2002
Dick, Firstly I have not built a RV7 rudder with the riveted trailing edge, mine is still in the mail, I have only built the tall RV6 rudder so far, so others can give more specific advice. Secondly, clecoes don't hold the aluminium together as well as a rivet, so much of your oil canning is likely to go away when riveted. Third, the only good way to avoid oil canning is to pin the skin to the frame evenly. So we developed the "halve the distance rule". Put a rivet in the centre of a line, then one at each end, then one half way between each of the three, then half way between etc etc, continue halving the distance between the distance till all done. The worst thing you can do is start at one end of a line of rivets and proceed to the far end. You will get lots of oil canning in the later sections that way. Apologies if you have heard this procedure before. David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Richard E. Tasker [mailto:retasker(at)optonline.net] Sent: Thursday, 31 October 2002 15:59 To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Rudder trailing edge installation I say "oil canning" but the section that pops out only stays out as long as pressure is applied to the adjacent section - so I guess it is not true oil canning where there are two stable states. There are two or three sections like this on each side. The trailing edge is straight as an arrow so that is not a problem. I suspect that this is just life and is probably impossible to totally eliminate since the rudder sides are flat (rather than all other control surfaces that have some curve in them). In any case, is this a problem? If so, what can I do about it? Thanks, Dick. 90573 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2002
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: How To Wire a "Dual-Rate" Electric Trim System...
Hi Listers, I've recently received a number of requests from builders regarding how to wire up a "dual-rate" system for their electric trim installation. The concept is that in cruse configuration the trim speed would be slow and during flaps down configuration the trim speed would be fast. I've draw up a schematic diagram that shows how to accomplish this using two Matronics Governor MkIII units, a 12v relay, and an extra switch. With the flaps up, the "fast" Governor MkIII is switched in, and when the flaps are down, the "slow" Governor MkIII is switched in. I would recommend using the highest quality, sealed relay available for this installation. Here is the Dual-Rate PDF document: http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII/DualRate-GovernorMkIII-Installation.pdf and here is the Governor MkIII website: http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII If you have any questions on the wiring diagram, feel free to email me directly at: dralle(at)matronics.com Best regards, Matt Dralle Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Okrent3209(at)AOL.com
Date: Nov 01, 2002
Subject: How To Wire a "Dual-Rate" Electric Trim System...
In a message dated 11/1/02 3:09:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > RV7-List: How To Wire a "Dual-Rate" Electric Trim System... > Matt, Why do you need two governors? Can't you use just one for low speed. High speed would be normal motor operation. Mike Okrent Sc.D., CPIM, CIRM, CQE, CQA, CQMgr, PMP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2002
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: How to contact Ron Burch
Does anyone have a telephone number for Ron Burch? There is an email link at the following URL, http://www.kitpanels.com/shops.htm however my email bounces. Roger Crandell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2002 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists...
Dear Listers, During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists. The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show much traffic the Lists generated last year alone: 11/01/2001 - 10/31/2002 Web server hits: 8,700,000 (727,000/mo) Incoming Email Posts: 51,259 (4,271/mo) * * This number is multiplied by the total number of email addresses subscribed to the given List. The actual number of email message processed is in the 50,000,000 range for last year!! The new Internet provider, Speakeasy, has been providing extremely fast and reliable service over the last year, and this has certainly been a refreshing change from previous providers! There were a couple of new features added at the tail-end of last year including the new List Browse Feature ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), and the List Photoshare which have been both very popular. Many people have written to say how much they enjoy the on-line browsing capability of current week's messages. The 184 new Photoshares ( http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ) added over the last year attests to its acceptance and appreciation in the community as well. I have upgraded both the email and web server OS systems recently to the latest - well almost the latest - version of Redhat Linux and Kernel 2.4.19, both of which have been working very well and quite reliably. What does the future hold? Well, something pretty exciting I'm hoping... I am currently evaluating a new, commercially available software package that runs under Linux and provides a complete web-based Email List service akin to what those other guys use. The difference will be that there won't be any annoying advertisements and popup ads on the Matronics system!! The system will continue to be dedicated to furthering Lists activities and not trying to sell you something you don't want. My hope is to keep most if not all of the current functionality in place and add the new software system over the top. Some of the system will be replaced (like majordomo), but the lists will work much like they do today - only BETTER! As I mentioned, I am currently in the evaluation stage of this and have yet to select a final product. Suffice to say some facelifts are definitely on the way! Unlike many of the other "list servers" on the web these days, I have a strict no-commercial-advertisement policy on the Matronics Lists and associated List websites. I have been approached by a number of vendors recently with advertising deals that have been very tempting. However, my commitment to providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment prevails! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing exponentially every year with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to mention the ever increasing Virus attacks. My goal with the Matronics List Service is to provide my members with a commercial-free, safe, and high-performance system in which to share information, ideas, and camaraderie. I recoup my upgrade, maintenance, and operating costs by having a List Fund Raiser once a year during November. During this time, I ask List members to donate a small amount of money to support the continued operation of the Lists over the upcoming year. Contributions in the $20, $30, and $50 range are common. This year I have completely revamped the Contribution website, and have added the ability to use PayPal to make your Contribution in addition to the traditional Visa/MC and Personal Check Options. Its easier and faster than ever before to make your Contribution!! For those who are accustomed to using PayPal to make Internet purchases, will appreciate the ease and speed of using this handy method of payment to make their List Contribution. The best news this year, however, is that I have a couple of fantastic Gift offers to support the List Fund Raiser! Andy Gold of The Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) will be generously donating a FREE Jeppesen Flight Bag to anyone making a $50 or more List Contribution during the Fund Raiser! This is a great bag and something you'll surely what to get your hands on. Thanks Andy, for this great incentive!! In addition to the great Flight Bag, I will also be offering a FREE Matronics List Archive CDROM for a $50 or greater Contribution! This is a complete set of archives for all Email Lists currently hosted by Matronics. The Archives date back to the beginning of the each List. In the case of the RV-List, for example, this includes archives all the way back to 1990! That's about 133Mb alone! Also included on the CD is a copy of Chip Gibbion's Windows Archive Search Utility and a precompiled search-index for each archive on the CD. Better yet?! You can get BOTH the Flight Bag AND the Archive CD for a Contribution of $75 or more which is actually LESS than the combined retail price on the two items!!! How can you go wrong? Get some great stuff AND support your Lists at the same time! Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made possible through YOUR support! I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who supports the List this year. Your generosity contributes directly to the quality of the experience here. To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with a Personal Check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as additional information on the various methods of payment. SSL Secure Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contributions Again, I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this year! Your Contributions truly make it all possible!! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: how to drill F-719B and F-719
Date: Nov 03, 2002
RV-7 tailwheel tip-up I've got a question about...or more like I'm looking for confirmation on the best way to drill the F-719 forward skin stiffeners. Specifically, I'm wondering about when and how to drill the F-719B "angle clips" (see DWG 23 Detail B and Detail C). Here's what I'm planning on doing...and please let me know if I'm either way off or if there's an easier way...Van's instructions and drawings leave a lot to be desired in this area (I'm not complaining, it's a nice challenge!). 1) Trim the F-719 skin stiffener angle to length. "Out of the box" it's slightly too long...it needs maybe 1/4" cut off the forward end so it'll be just shy of the F-601B firewall stiffener angle. 2) Drill and cleco the two holes in the F-719B angle clip to the F-719 (this is done off the airframe before any other drilling). 3) Drill the F-719 to the side skin just like the aux longeron...position it with a centerline showing through all the holes, drill it, cleco it. 4) Now the angle clip needs to be drilled to the firewall stiffener angle...and this is really where my question is...since the skin obviously blocks easy access for drilling outside in... a) The way I intend to do this is NOT to pre-drill a hole in the F-719B angle clip, but to back drill it from the inside out through the firewall angle. I would do this using a 12" #30 drill bit so the drill doesn't scratch the firewall. b) Another way to do this might be to pre-drill the hole in the angle clip beforehand, and then peel back a bit of the forward skin and drill through that "pilot hole" into the firewall angle from the outside in. Any other suggestions? I suspect that this area was actually designed to be drilled without the skins on (relic from the -6). I'd love to hear suggestions if you think there's an easier way. Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2002
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: how to drill F-719B and F-719
Dan I didn't use your method. I think I clamped it in place while the side skin was also in place and drilled I popped the side skin loose enough to get an angle drill in there behind it and drill the clip. I have now bought TWO 90 deg drills. The first one had a 1" dia head, and this won't drill the center of a 3/4" angle flange. So I bought a 90 deg attachment to chuck into a std drill. It has a 5/8" dia head for smaller places. Hope this helps. Need more Dan let me know. Cary fuse is now right side up --- Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > RV-7 tailwheel tip-up > > I've got a question about...or more > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New List Digest Feature!! [Please Read]
Dear Listers, I've added a new feature to the Digest format of the Lists tonight. At the top of each digest you will find a new Index Listing of all of the messages found within that Digest including the Message Number, Subject, Poster, and Time of Day posted. I've also added a "Message Number" header to each message within the Digest so that its easy to find 'just the message' you were looking for! Sorry for the double posting of the digests tonight - the first time I didn't quite have the code right and a few "bogus" entries made it into the Index. I went ahead and reposted the Digest so that everyone could see how the Index-to-Message mapping really worked. Special 'thanks' to Gary Hall for not only suggesting a Digest Index, but also supplying a few samples on how it might look. Gary, I think you'll be quite pleased with the format! Don't forget that were right in the middle of this year's List Fund Raiser and if you haven't already made your Contribution, you own it to yourself to check out the great free Gifts that are available this year with your qualifying Contribution. The Lists are operated completely though the support of it members, and so its up to YOU to get that credit card out and make that $20, $30, or $50 show of support for the continued operation of the Lists. Won't you take a couple of minutes and make a quick Contribution on the all new, streamlined List Support web site? I've also added a Payment-through-PayPal option this year, and this is proving a very popular method of payment. Don't forget to check out the great free gifts you can get with a qualifying Contribution this year. I can't believe how popular they've been this year! Hurry and get your's today and support the Lists at the same time! Here's the SSL Secure URL for making your Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your Support!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2002
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
Subject: massey wing tips
Does anyone have experience using the Massey wing tips on an RV? http://www.masseyaircraftservice.com/performance.htm Thanks Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying...
Dear Listers, First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that's already made a Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't already made a Contribution, won't you take a movement and show your support for these valuable services? Since there's no advertising or other forms of direct commercialism on the forums to support the Lists, its soley YOUR GENEROSITY that keeps them running!! Won't please take a minute and make a Contribution via the SSL secure web site via Credit Card, Paypal, or personal check. Here's the URL: http://www.matronics.com/contributions This year, I've been getting some *really* nice comments from Contributors and I thought I'd pass along a few of them below. What does the List mean to *you*? Thank you for your support!! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator _________________ What your fellow Listers are saying... _________________ ...great service!! Greg B. They have been a great assistance to me in building my RV-8. Kevin H. ...very much appreciated. Donald M. Great site... Angus F. ...invaluable resource. Ronald C [The List] has played a big part in continuing my project at those times when I got stuck for some reason. Jeff D. Although I am only a reader, I find the list very helpful. Oswaldo F. The lists are a fantastic resource and are helping me very much... Kenyon B. The list is part of my life. Ron C. The CD will free up some hard disk space on my personal PC. Jeff D. ...unbelievably useful. Dan O. ...dependable and valued source of builder information. Jerry C. My daily lifeline! Owen B. ...frequently get questions answered on the List. Billy W. Don't know how any first-time builder could get by without the lists. Rick R. ...great source of information and motivation. Jef V. Super resource! David P. The information presented is very helpful to the building process. James B. Wonderful Service! Wendell D. The lists are great! F. Robert M. ...very valuable to this builder. William C. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: Gear attach web w/tailwheel...to use or not?
Date: Nov 07, 2002
RV-7 tailwheel tip-up Hey, before I call and bug Van's about this, I figured I'd ask the lists. Would there be any harm in leaving off the F-7101-L & -R gear attach webs? Those are pretty hefty relatively speaking, and since I'm building the tailwheel configuration do I really need them? I don't see how they do anything structurally (without -7A mains mounted there) other than add weight. I guess if somebody wanted to convert to a nose dragger down the line it makes sense to have 'em in there, but screw that. If I can save the weight, I'd like to leave them off. Am I out of my mind? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser Continues...
Marie Murillo Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder this morning that we're well into this year's Email List Fund Raiser. Response has been great so far and there has been a lot of interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, I received a sample of the Jeppesen Flight Bag from Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com this weekend, and let me just say that this is an extremely fine quality unit. Its very light, folds down into a very small form for storage, and will hold a whole lot of your "pilot stuff"! For a mere $50 List Contribution, one of these very nice bags could be yours! You'll be the envy of all your friends. Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email List Services? Please remember that its YOUR generosity that entirely supports the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists. That's it - no ads, no banners - just good clean fun; that is, with your support of course! Please take a moment and make a generous Contribution today. It only takes a minute using the newly redesigned Contribution Web Site where you can use either a Credit Card, PayPal, or a Personal Check to make your donation. The URL for the SSL Secure Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution And I'd like to say a special "thank you!" to everyone one who has made Contribution so far this year!! I really appreciate your generosity! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2002
From: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV-list , vansairforce , RV 6 , RV 6 List
Subject: Surface preparation and painting
I would like to start a quick discussion on what the options are for protecting the aluminum from rust and painting the airplane. Let me start by listing my limited understanding of what the options are and have everyone else complete the list. I don't really want to go in to what is better, just what the options are and what the advantages and disadvantages are. For the interior structure: Alodine and nothing else. Alodine and then prime. Just prime. As for the primer I see 2 different main types; Zinc chromate and epoxy primer. I think one of the main differences between the 2 are with the epoxy primer the surface has to be roughed up some with some fine scotch bright or something similar but you just have to get it clean and free of corrosion if you are using the Zinc chromate. For Alodine, I'm not clear if you have the rough up the surface or not? It seems to me an advantage to using only alodine on the interior structure is it will be more conductive and you won't have to worry about grounding wires running all over the place and it doesn't add much weight. Another thing I'm not sure on is the inside of the skins. I know most people put some kind of protection on the skeleton but what about the inside of the skin. For the out side: I am guessing all the same options apply but does anyone alodine the outside of the plane? Now we have to paint the primed surface. Does the kind of paint determine the primer? And are standard automotive paints fine for an airplane? What about the fiberglass parts do you have to use a different primer on them? Finally I have heard about primers that require you to apply the paint with in a short time after the primer. Is this true and what type of primers are like that? Thanks in advance for everyone's input -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gsuit" <gsuit(at)ih2000.net>
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Surface preparation and painting
Date: Nov 12, 2002
Chris, When I attended the EAA SportAir workshop back before I started building, this very topic came up. The position of the workshop instructors was that Van's doesn't recommend priming anything that is ALCLAD coated. So this means prime the ribs, spars, and stiffners but not the skin in any way...including Alodine coating. They went on to say that if you live in "high salt air regions" you might want to consider using Corrosion X at your first annual inspection. Clayton Henderson --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2002
From: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV-list , RV 8 list , RV 8 , RV 7 List , RV 7 , RV 6 List , RV 6
Subject: Tail Wheel drag
In the never ending quest of ways to make an RV faster I was wondering what could be done around the the tail wheel. From my extremely limited knowledge of laminar flow and turbulent flow it seems that at 200 mph that far back on the plane the air would be pretty turbulent. It also seems that the prop wash would only amplify this effect. But still who knows there may be something to be gained back there so I thought of a fairly simple experiment someone who has a finished plane could try, if someone hasn't already tried it. Back in the old days a tail dragger was exactly that a tail "DRAGGER" no wheel just some thing to hold the plane structure off the ground. What if someone where to take the tail wheel (spring and all) off and replace it with a simple straight spring sticking out the standard place. That would seem to be a pretty clean. Obviously ground handling would be almost impossible but if you did it on a small quite grass strip on a week day, you could get the plane on the runway and then change it out, take off and do a quick speed check. So anyone want to give it a try? -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2002
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: Tail Wheel drag
Hmmmmm... Ground loop 'springs' to mind.. Pardon the pun! Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 >>> chrisw3(at)cox.net 11/12/02 02:47PM >>> In the never ending quest of ways to make an RV faster I was wondering what could be done around the the tail wheel. From my extremely limited knowledge of laminar flow and turbulent flow it seems that at 200 mph that far back on the plane the air would be pretty turbulent. It also seems that the prop wash would only amplify this effect. But still who knows there may be something to be gained back there so I thought of a fairly simple experiment someone who has a finished plane could try, if someone hasn't already tried it. Back in the old days a tail dragger was exactly that a tail "DRAGGER" no wheel just some thing to hold the plane structure off the ground. What if someone where to take the tail wheel (spring and all) off and replace it with a simple straight spring sticking out the standard place. That would seem to be a pretty clean. Obviously ground handling would be almost impossible but if you did it on a small quite grass strip on a week day, you could get the plane on the runway and then change it out, take off and do a quick speed check. So anyone want to give it a try? -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' Contribution Gifts! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2002
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
Subject: tru-trak wing levelers and auto pilots
Does anyone have experience with Trutrak Flight Systems wing levelers and autopilots? Are you satisfied with the performance and if not, what model do you have and describe the problems. Trutrak claims their autopilot works especially well in turbulence as compared to to other autopilots which might need to be disengaged in turbulence. Thanks Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gsuit" <gsuit(at)ih2000.net>
Subject: Surface preparation and painting
Date: Nov 13, 2002
I agree with Boyd about the Air-to-air visibility, plus, the pure aluminum coating (ALCLAD) can be rubbed off by polishing, over time. That would expose your entire airplane to corrosion. Clayton Henderson --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: tru-trak wing levelers and auto pilots tests=X_ACCE
Date: Nov 13, 2002
The last RV aviator from Vans had a story on autopilots. They liked the Tru-trak. I have installed one in my RV7 but have yet to turn it on. Installation is a snap. John Adams N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
Subject: Aluminum prep
Date: Nov 13, 2002
I rebuilt a C-170 derelict 10 years ago. It sat outside on three flat tires for 12 years. It had never been primed/alodined or otherwise preserved. A slight amount of corrosion existed where the rats had built nests in the old insulation. Half a can of zinc chromate and a couple of 3-M pads solved all the corrosion problems. It is 54 years old now, polished exterior with silver painted dacron wings. There is no pure aluminum coating left on the exterior . It was last polished 10 years ago and still shines like silver. Save your time and money for something that counts! Paul Pflimlin RV-7 Empenage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Looking to purchase a 7/9 emp
From: David_Rowbotham(at)dom.com
Date: Nov 13, 2002
11/13/2002 01:51:05 PM Please let me know if you or anyone you know has a 7/9 emp and preview plan set for sale. I'm thinking of becoming a repeat offender. Thanks, David Rowbotham RV-8A - N712CR - 140 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum prep
Date: Nov 13, 2002
Paul Pflimlin is right............. A friend of mine built a Cessna 150 on a budget from pieces here and there. Since everything was different colors, he stripped the paint and found a nice shiny aluminum surface under the paint. He liked it and left it. This occurred in the early 80's. He regularly gets comments on how his beautiful Cessna 150 shines as if it were new, right from the factory. They all want to know what his secret is. He just says "Oh, I wash it once a year." Everyone wants to know what polish he uses, and the answer is always "None". I have to finish my current homebuilt before I start a RV-7 kit, but when I do it'll be plain aluminum finish. Just my .02 cents, Linc --------------------------------------------- 1st month Free! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Surface preparation and painting
Date: Nov 14, 2002
Chris, There is heaps in the archives about paint schemes. Some rules of thumb I have learned. For a salt/agricultural environment, scuff, use alodine, then two part epoxy primer, plus topcoat for the exterior. This is the rolls royce of schemes for highly corrosive environments as used by the USN. My local maintenance engineer warned me that the most corrosion prone area is anywhere two metal surfaces meet, moisture can be trapped. So as a minimum make sure some level of protection exists between say rib and skin. Where dissimilar metals meet (a steel hinge bracket on a aluminium spar) I use a second level of protection, in the form of a cream called Durolac, which is a marine anti-corrosive sticky yellow stuff. I also use it on every exernal rivet to reduce the propensity for smoking rivets. So my scheme is: Interior excluding cockpit - alodine all interior, that's all, no scuffing, just look for gold colour. No weight increase at all, minimum labour with no scuffing. Interior of cockpit - this area is prone to scratching, spills of food, drinks, oils, brake fluid etc. Scuff to maximise holding power, alodine, two part water based epoxy primer, gloss topcoat. Exterior, scuff to maximise holding power, prime, glossy top coats. No alodine because I am not near the sea. Another option for the exterior is to scuff, alodine then topcoat direct. Talk to paint suppliers first before adopting this option. It depends on the paint. Alodine will hang onto a scuffed surface better than a shiny metal, but if its changed to the gold colour , without scuffing, then its protected. Where there is little chance of scratching, eg inside wings, I save labour by not scuffing. Alodine is prone to scratching, so in the cockpit I will prime then topcoat over the alodine to get a harder surface. Alclad is very soft, highly prone to scracthing, so I do alodine over it, but alodine is also prone to scratching, but not as bad as alclad. If you use a primer make sure it is resistant to solvents including avgas, brake fluid, coca cola etc. I alodine the inside of the skins without scuffing first, this is to get a good protection between ribs and skin without weight and for minimum labour. Zinc Chromate is carcenogenic. Look at the water based non-toxic paints at www.aircraftfinishing.com <http://www.aircraftfinishing.com> Hope this helps. David Francis, VH-ZEE Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Chris Woodhouse [mailto:chrisw3(at)cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 13:26 To: RV 7; RV 7 List; RV-list; vansairforce; RV 6; RV 6 List Subject: RV7-List: Surface preparation and painting I would like to start a quick discussion on what the options are for protecting the aluminum from rust and painting the airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Said What...?
Dear Listers, Wow, I can't belive some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists in that little message box on the Contribution form! I've included more of the great comments since the last WLAS. Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!! Have a look at some of your fellow members thoughts below and decide if the Lists mean at least that much to you or perhaps even more... Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution to support these Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, high-performance List services? Its your direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that enables all of these valuable services you've come to expect of the Matronics Lists. Thank you for your Contribution!! SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution Matt Dralle EMail List Administrator ===================================================================== =================== What Listers Are Saying - II ==================== ===================================================================== I check this List 4 to 5 times a day... -Bruce B. These are without a doubt among the best managed Lists to which I subscribe. -Terry W. Thank you for providing such a wonderful service. -Roy W. ...fine service! -Christopher A. Best list on the Internet! -Geroge A. Great list with a host of features. -David A. Having built part of a kit... ...I know exactly how much this list means to me and others. -Curtis H. As always... you've got a real cool & very useful service going... -Chuck R. I shudder to think of the trouble I would have had getting this project airborne without this list! -Grant C. ...enjoy everyone's input. -Doug P. I read the [the List] every day... -Ronald S. Whenever I feel like not building on my day off....I open my mail and the [the List] gets me pumped and ready to hit it! -Tom E. The Digest Message subject list is an excellent addition. -Kevin S. Certainly the [the List] has been a valuable source for building support and advice, but there's another benefit,... the wonderful friends that we meet and keep for years and years! -Fred H. What a great forum to exchange ideas and info. -Terry L. The List is my daily RV fix. -Neil H. I always received comments and suggestions when I requested them. -Thomas G. Best resource a builder could ever have. A daily must! -Robert C. Thanks for your gift - these web sites! -Tom P. ...great info. -Richard W. The List empowers all RV builders to achieve success... -Mark G. I've been reading the postings for a month now and decided to take the plunge as a result of the helpfulness and spirit of cooperation I observed. -Tim P. ...invaluable service. -Ford F. I check in at least twice daily for my e-mail "Fix". -John S. Its worth every penny of my contribution. -Paul M. Wonderful web site and it keeps getting better. -Jim H. A valuable list which has certainly helped me. -Andrew G. ...the List helps so many. -Don J. I really appreciate the site and find it interesting to speak to people who are into this type of aircraft. -Larry M. This is a great recreation for me. -Larry B. [The List] keeps me up to date and provides a fantastic resource for information. -Terry F. Lists are a great resource! -Daniel S. ...great service and professional administration of the Lists. -Chris R. I really appreciate the List. -Edward O. Worth every penny, and then some! -Kenyon B. ...great service. -Ralph H. Your unselfish contribution to the experimental aircraft movement is very much appreciated! -Alex M. Great help on the Aeroelectric list. -Bruce B. It helps on a daily basis. -Tim G. Thanks for providing this outstanding service to us! -Michel T. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Durolac sounds like 3M weatherstrip adhesive
Date: Nov 14, 2002
Durolac sounds a lot like 3M Weatherstrip Adhesive. I am going to try some boat shops in Houston to see if I can find some and compare it to 3M yellow weatherstrip adhesive. If it is the same stuff, then the 3M brand product is a whole lot easier to find, and cheaper, too. Happy Building, Linc --------------------------------------------- 1st month Free! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: rudder pedal bushing location
Date: Nov 14, 2002
I've read in the archives about suggested places where the rudder pedal bushing blocks should be drilled. It seems like the best solution is to drill a forward-most location just aft of the recess (about 3" aft of the firewall), then drill two more locations 1" & 2" back from there. Is that how most people have done it? But I guess my real question is this...how many degrees of travel do the rudder pedals swing with full actuation? Is 3 or 4" enough room for full swing? I'm sure we all deliberate about drilling these suckers...I appreciate any input you can provide and I apologize for beating the horse if it's already dead. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Tail Wheel drag
Date: Nov 15, 2002
Chris, With respect I think you are on the wrong track. To pick up good ideas have a look at Speed With Economy by Paser. For my RV7 I will be buying the tailwheel pant from Vans, and making myself two long fairings to cover the rudder cables from their exit at the fuselage side all the way to the foot of the rudder. I expect to pick up 3 to 5 kts from these two mods. I have a mate who owns a Tiger Moth. He has had interesting experience with tails skids. True skids were developed when airfields had zero bitumen. To save weight and complexity no brakes were fitted, so skids, which are actually high drag little ploughs were developed to brake the aircraft and improve directional stability. My mate had a no-brake Tiger with a skid, at an airfield with bitumen runways and taxiways. Taxing on bitumen became risky with no brakes, and also the wear on the skid was horrendous. To combat both problems he fitted brakes and made a much bigger, heavier and draggier skid. After replacing this monster every couple of weeks he then fitted, guess what, a tail wheel. End of tale. Other go fast ideas for RV's, keep it light, point the exhausts directly backwards, extend the engine air intake towards the prop, have internal lights and antennas. Van has already designed-in the rest of speed best practice, that's why I chose it. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Australia. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Mark Taylor [mailto:mtaylor(at)msxi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002 8:01 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tail Wheel drag Hmmmmm... Ground loop 'springs' to mind.. Pardon the pun! Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 >>> chrisw3(at)cox.net 11/12/02 02:47PM >>> In the never ending quest of ways to make an RV faster I was wondering what could be done around the the tail wheel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: LOC Coming Soon...
Dear Listers, This year's List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner. I'll be posting the LOC on or about December 1. The List of Contributors is a directory of everyone's name that made a Contribution during this year's List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of publicly thanking everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these Lists. Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming LOC! Your friends will be checking no doubt to see if YOU make your Contribution because THEY did! :-) Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2002
From: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV 7 , RV 7 List , RV 8 , RV 8 list , RV 9 , RV 9 List
Subject: Fuselage Stands
Well I have been playing with my cad software again. I saw how Paul Besing made a stand for the fuselage out of an engine stand over at http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/tips.html and that got me thinking. First I wanted something that would be height adjustable. I also wanted to have a stand in the back to give a little bit better support. I didn't show it in these models but the vertical part of the stand will have a telescoping tube with holes every so often to adjust the height. My attachment in the back is just a 1/2-20 ball link (www.McMaster.com PN 60645K26) then I weld a 1 3/4 inch long coupler nut to a 1/4" thick plate and screw it on to the stud of the ball link. Then drill holes to match some mounting point on the back of the fuselage. For the front I just have a 1-1/4" OD tube with a 1" ID, I have a hole for it to pivot up and down on. Then I split the tube along it's length with another coupler nut on top with the threads drilled out of one half so you can use a bolt to clamp down on the 1" OD tube that goes inside, that the fuselage pivots on. I didn't show all the details of the tubes or angle or channel or what ever other steel you can find to attach your fire wall to the mounting plate on the stand, because that will be different for every plane. Well anyway a picture is worth a thousand words so before I get to a thousand words just go look at the link below. http://ip68-12-221-171.ok.ok.cox.net:8088/stands/ -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dom Forrest" <dominic.forrest(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: FW: Countersink & dimpling question
Date: Nov 17, 2002
I am working on the front spar of the horizontal stabiliser on a RV7A and have the following query. I have dimpled the HS702 to install the central AN426AD4-6 rivets into the HS-710 & HS714 which I have countersunk. The 710 & 714 are countersunk so that a rivet just sits flush, however when i lay the dimpled HS702 on them is does not sit quite flush. Should I expect to have to countersink them more??? ie what I am asking is should you have to countersink deeper to accept a dimple than to directly accept a rivet? Thanks in advance Dom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Countersink & dimpling question
Date: Nov 17, 2002
Yes, you will have to countersink deeper to accept a dimple. Several places in the manual Vans notes you should make up a scrap piece of aluminum and put a dimple in it and use it as a guide to ensure your countersink holes are the proper depth. Curt Hoffman RV-9A wings 1968 Mustang 302 convertible Piper Cherokee N5320W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dom Forrest" <dominic.forrest(at)ntlworld.com> Subject: RV7-List: FW: Countersink & dimpling question > > > I am working on the front spar of the horizontal stabiliser on a RV7A and > have the following query. > > I have dimpled the HS702 to install the central AN426AD4-6 rivets into the > HS-710 & HS714 which I have countersunk. > > The 710 & 714 are countersunk so that a rivet just sits flush, however when > i lay the dimpled HS702 on them is does not sit quite flush. Should I > expect to have to countersink them more??? > > ie what I am asking is should you have to countersink deeper to accept a > dimple than to directly accept a rivet? > > > Thanks in advance > > > Dom > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year?
Dear Listers, I got to thinking today that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot* receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the Archive Search times. Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion, is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical email thread. I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous v*ruses. I am currently working on the additional ability to post and/or reply directly from the List Browse interface. More on this upcoming feature in the next week or so. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 9,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over 50,000,000 (yes, that 50 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free. I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! Thank you, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ------------------------------------------ The SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Unloading an RV-7 QB - 11/19/02
Has anyone out there got any ideas about getting these huge crates out the back of a truck and into a hangar? My first thought is to tie a rope around the crate and secure the other end of the rope to something solidly fixed, then drive the truck forward sliding the crate out and supporting it on some stands. I called the trucking company and they advised me that the truck is fully enclosed bar the tail gate. TIA. Mark. RV-7 QB Wings & Fuse arrive tomorrow! Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: "Harry Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)mail.speednetllc.com>
Subject: Re: Unloading an RV-7 QB - 11/19/02
get three 1 inch water pipe wider than each box. While on the truck slip them under the box. Roll the box to the tail of the truck. carefully move it off the end of the truck till it balance on the end gat. With the help of three of four guys, lower the end on the truck to the floor. With the aid of the pipes under the box.... roll it into the hangar... or find a guy with a fork lift on the airport. The fuselage is not that heavy.... the wings are a little different. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:02:26 -0500 > >Has anyone out there got any ideas about getting these huge crates out >the back of a truck and into a hangar? > >My first thought is to tie a rope around the crate and secure the other >end of the rope to something solidly fixed, then drive the truck forward >sliding the crate out and supporting it on some stands. > >I called the trucking company and they advised me that the truck is >fully enclosed bar the tail gate. > >TIA. > >Mark. >RV-7 QB >Wings & Fuse arrive tomorrow! > >Mark Taylor >CAD Technical Specialist >313 203 4702 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: Unloading an RV-7 QB - 11/19/02
I just got back from Home Depot where I bought 4 moving dollies and 200ft of 700lb SWL rope. I had a similar thought to get the crate teetering off the edge off the truck. The pipe idea sounds good. If it worked for the Pyramids,it should work with the RV! I talked four guys into helping me out. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks! Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 >>> hawkbud(at)mail.speednetllc.com 11/19/02 21:58 PM >>> get three 1 inch water pipe wider than each box. While on the truck slip them under the box. Roll the box to the tail of the truck. carefully move it off the end of the truck till it balance on the end gat. With the help of three of four guys, lower the end on the truck to the floor. With the aid of the pipes under the box.... roll it into the hangar... or find a guy with a fork lift on the airport. The fuselage is not that heavy.... the wings are a little different. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:02:26 -0500 > >Has anyone out there got any ideas about getting these huge crates out >the back of a truck and into a hangar? > >My first thought is to tie a rope around the crate and secure the other >end of the rope to something solidly fixed, then drive the truck forward >sliding the crate out and supporting it on some stands. > >I called the trucking company and they advised me that the truck is >fully enclosed bar the tail gate. > >TIA. > >Mark. >RV-7 QB >Wings & Fuse arrive tomorrow! > >Mark Taylor >CAD Technical Specialist >313 203 4702 > > Contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Lynwood Stagg <woody6(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7 QB Unloading
Please keep the list updated on how the crate unloading goes. I need ideas for my dleivery next week. Woody Stagg RV-7A QB N5WS reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Value?
Dear Listers, We are quickly approaching the end of November and the official end of the List Fund Raiser. If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists. Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: RV7 QB Unloading
Hi Woody and Listers, The unloading went well. I made 2 ramps using 12x2, with some 4x2 to make a T-section to give some stiffness. It only took about a half hour to make them. I had bought 4 of those flat movers dollies from Home Depot. They were $20 each and can handle 1000lbs each, so they're more than adequate for the job. They're conveniently hidden in the Garden section! You will need a long pry bar and some pieces of wood to lever the big crate up to slide the dollies under. You only need two really. Then you can push the crate to the back of the truck. Then we pushed it out and down the ramps. As you do this the dollies should be taken out from underneath otherwise the crate will be rolling away! Just let the crate slide directly on the ramps. At the bottom, place a dolly for the crate to slide onto so that now the crate is on a dolly on the floor at one end, and on the truck at the other, hanging on by about 4 or 5 inches. At this point, move the ramps away and put a dollie on the floor for the crate to be placed on. Make sure the dolly is positioned so it hits one of the 2x4's attached to the bottom of the crate. Now you need 4 people to lift the end that is on the truck, get the truck driver to drive away and then lower the crate onto the dolly. Then simply push it into the hangar and tear it open! Well, carefully anyways! The wing crate was easy. It only took me (165lb weakling) and the truck driver (similarly built) to get it out of the crate without risking damage, and we didn't need the ramps. The big crate though definitely needs four people. I hope this explanation is clear. If it isn't ask away and I'll try my best to answer your questions. I had a couple of friends from work, the airport cop and the truck driver! They may never see this note, but thanks guys! Disclaimer: Just remember when you guys are unloading your QB's from trucks, YOU have to call the shots. The delivery is all of a sudden YOUR responsibility. It's your $19k sitting there and the last thing you want is for it all to come tumbling down after its been around the world unharmed. If what you're doing looks like it might go horribly wrong, take the appropriate action to rectify it! Me and the truck driver alone got the big crate to the point where one end was on the ground and the other on the truck. I wasn't about to attempt to go any further with it until my help arrived. The truck drivers will want to get out of there ASAP, but he can't go until it's off the truck right?! Mark Taylor RV-7 QB N834ST Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 >>> woody6(at)yahoo.com 11/21/02 05:01PM >>> Please keep the list updated on how the crate unloading goes. I need ideas for my dleivery next week. Woody Stagg RV-7A QB N5WS reserved Contribution Gifts! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser Free Gift Shipping Status...
Dear Listers, A couple of people have written asking what the shipping status was of their free List Contribution Gifts. Seemed like some status was in order and I thought I detail where we're at... Flight Bag Requests ------------------- On 11/20/02 I shipped out the first batch of Flight Bag-Only (FBO) gift requests. I shipped all FBO gift requests I had received from 11/1 to 11/19 except for 3 (Sorry guys!) - I ran out of my first shipment flight bags! Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) is supplying me with another batch flight bags which should arrive in about 2 weeks. By the way, these are REALLY nice Flight Bags. Extremely well built and very professional looking. Folds down into a very small size, but will hold a huge amount of stuff. If you fly, and you've got a lot of stuff, they you WANT one of these guys. Surf over to the List Contribution page for details on how to get one of your own!!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution The Flight Bags have been shipped out US Mail Parcel Post in a large, and I mean LARGE, padded white plastic envelope. According to the Post Office, worse case delivery time would be 8 days to destinations on the East Coast, but indicated it would likely take a lot less time. Archive CDROM Requests ---------------------- The Archive CDROMs will be mastered and burned on or about December 1 and should ship out shortly there after. Shipping will be US Mail, Media Rate in a big padded white envelope. The Archive List data included will be up to November 30th. Flight Bag and Archive CDROM Requests ------------------------------------- These combination orders will ship out when the Archive CDROMs are complete as described above, likely a little after December 1. The Flight Bag and the CDROM will be shipped together in the same Giant white padded envelope! Again, I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore for providing these awesome Flight Bags to support the List Fund Raiser. Andy has gone way beyond the call of duty with regard to his support of the Lists this year and to show your gratitude I would ask that you have a look at his web site and great media offerings. You'll find some excellent deals on some very useful material. http://www.buildersbooks.com And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year! Your generosity and kindness is greatly appreciated. If you've been putting off making a Contribution, now's a great time show your appreciation in plenty of time to make it onto this year's List of Contributors AND get your free gift with qualifying Contribution!!! List Contribution Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution/ Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV7 Quck Build Fuselage & Wings for Sale
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Long story but I ended up with a 6 and a 7 kit this past week. I am selling the 7. No work has been done on the kit. Let me know if you are seriously intersted. Ned ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dhmilliken(at)AOL.com
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Subject: Re: RV7 Quck Build Fuselage & Wings for Sale
In a message dated 11/24/2002 4:57:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, 315(at)cox.net writes: > Long story but I ended up with a 6 and a 7 kit this past week. I am selling > the 7. No work has been done on the kit. Let me know if you are seriously > intersted. > Ned, Where is this kit located? Dave Milliken (in Utah) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: All New List FAQs!
Dear Listers, I got to looking at the Email List FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) today and realized that they where miserably out of date. I spent a wad of time today completely revising them and adding in documentation on all of the many new features such as the List Browse and Photoshare. Many of the little-known features are documented in there now, too, so even if you're a seasoned List veteran, you might want to give it a read. Never know what you might discover. At the bottom of this message in the Trailer you will find a new link item called "List FAQ" with a URL for this specific List. Just click on it and print it out or read it online. Don't forget that November is the List Fund Raiser month! The "2002 List of Contributors" is just days away and I know you'll want to make sure your name is on it!! Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation of these List Services! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John McFall <john(at)trillion21.com>
Subject: RV7 Quck Build Fuselage & Wings for Sale
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Ned, Have you sold the 7 yet? How much do you want for it and where is it located? Is it a quick build? Is it a RV-7 or 7A? John McFall Birmingham, AL -----Original Message----- From: Ned Thomas [mailto:315(at)cox.net] Subject: RV7-List: RV7 Quck Build Fuselage & Wings for Sale Long story but I ended up with a 6 and a 7 kit this past week. I am selling the 7. No work has been done on the kit. Let me know if you are seriously intersted. Ned ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: WLAS
Dear Listers, There are only a few days left until the November List of Contributors. I thought I'd take another opportunity to pass along some of the really nice things people have been saying recently about the Lists and how much they mean to them. If you receive value from the Lists in the form of ideas, assistance, comradery, moral support, inspiration, or just plain 'ol good entertainment, then won't take a moment to make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of them? Secure List Contribution Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution What does the List mean to you? Here's what some of your fellow contributing List members have said... ------------------------- What Listers Are Saying ------------------------- Great service for aviation types like me. Larry H Best investment I've made. Harley B I've been on this list since around 1996 and used it to help me finish my RV-6A three years ago. I'm still here because I still learn from it and use it to help others like me who may be where nobody else is building a RV. Thanks for your service to our community. It's appreciated. Jim S [List] people are a great break away from politics, religion and other sordid subjects. Robert B This site is a great confidence builder for the amateur builder. Gene L Great service! Barry P Very handy list to have, a good place for a beginner to get great answers from those who already experienced it. ...sure enjoy reading it. Joel R ...valuable service! Chris & Indira K This is the better than any morning paper - the best and most frequent service that I use on the Internet. Great job! This will make building the RV doable for me. Pete E I enjoy all of the ideas, suggestions and humor that comes with this list. I don't think I could build my RV4 with out everyone's help. Ross S GRRRRRRRRRRRREAT! James W The list is a great source of information, motivation, entertainment, passionate debate, and light-hearted back slapping. I wouldn't be without it. Roger H ...would still be looking for plans to hook-up s-tec auto pilot without your service! David S The new [digest] format is good. Graham S Great information you can't get anywhere else. Lots of nice people who have "Been there...done that." George D My normal morning routine: 1 Kiss "the princess" 2 Good cup of coffee 3 Log onto "List" A wonderful means of exchanging ideas, asking questions, gathering information, and sharing experiences. Robert G Great lists. Not only are the lists professionally and efficiently managed, but the *people* on the lists are very helpful, friendly and fun to chat with. Thank you for this wonderful resource. Ihab A Thanks a million, well maybe not a million!!! (: Ken H I need this fix every morning or I get grumpy... Wayne P Very useful lists Paul E This communication medium that you created, nurtured and continue to maintain is the best thing since AN rivets! Jim J The information I gleaned off the list has always been helpful. Kenneth B I've been a subscriber to varied lists for several years now. The knowledge provided has been extremely useful throughout. David P Enjoy everyone's input even though I am not a builder...just a flyer. Douglas P Just laughin' and a scratchin' Dennis N It is a real asset and good for comic relief. Ross S I can't build my plane without your service! Kent H Great info on the lists! Wesley H I'm very new to the List but have already benefited greatly. Jim S The "List" has been my best source for information concerning my aviation projects. Besides, it also brings a bunch of people together to share their interests and knowledge. Thanks for providing a state of the art, easy to use resource tool. David A I have saved a lot of grief and dollars from referencing this site. It is truly an extension of Van's product support. Joseph C Terrific asset this List is to the builder! Scott J Great service! Tony B Look forward to the list each and every day. John B I could not cope up here in this lonely island without the help of the List and all the wonderful helpful people that have the experience of aircraft building and flying for fun. Johann J This list is part of my daily routine. I'm addicted. Terry D Great forum! John H This list is my main interest in the Internet. George R Great list. The best out there on any subject. Kevin H Been on the list since 1998 and I still look forward to reading the list every day. A most valuable tool. I have picked up many useful tips during the construction of my RV-4. Jerry I Thanks for all of your hard work on the lists. It is one of the reasons I bought a CJ-6A. Without the Yak-list, I believe it would have been much more difficult to get all the information that I need for safe operation and maintenance of this fine aircraft. David L The List has been an amazing source of useful information. I consider it one of my best builder tools. Gunter M An excellent channel of information. I have gained a wealth of knowledge on both building and flying Kolb aircraft. Jim B Enjoy the wealth of information that is shared. Richard N Fine service. Beauford T [The] List is the first stop of the day. Made lot of friends from it. Orie S The information I gleaned off the List has always been helpful. Kenneth B Over the 3+ years that I have been building, I check it several times each day. I have learned a lot of very useful tips that have helped me in my building. Richard D Not only is it worth a contribution for the info gleaned from it but the personalities alone are pure entertainment! Stephen F This is great stuff!!! Entertaining, too!! Fast answers from those who really know... Bob R I am building an RV-9A and have received help from the lists and occasionally been able to give help to others. Alden Van W This list has saved me countless hours of work and worry already, and I'm only halfway there! Undoubtedly the most important aid I have yet found in this sometimes intimidating process of building an aircraft. Paul H I've been a member since '96 and have learned so much from the vast knowledge of the listers. Gary Z Outstanding List, exceptionally maintained. David S Thanks for all the improvements you've made this year. The Photoshare feature definitely proves "one picture is worth a thousand words". Richard H I finished my RV6A this year. It is a much better airplane because of the help I found on the RV and Aeroelectric Lists. Dale W Can't imagine building without the list. Larry H The list continues to be a great resource of information and advice. Jeff O ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: "Gonzalez, Manuel" <manuel.gonzalez(at)lmco.com>
Subject: riveting rudder trailing edge
I am about to rivet the trailing edge of my rudder. Never been there, never done that. I have thoroughly read section 5H of the manual, but I want to be sure. How many rivets do you do per side before you flip over to the other side? Do you skip a few and do them all on one side before going to the other side? Any tricks/suggestions would be appreciated. manuel gonzalez rv-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: riveting rudder trailing edge
Date: Nov 27, 2002
Manuel, I have not done one of the new rudders as yet, but I have been riveting for two years now. For best results the way I would approach it is to avoid imparting any twist by progressively pinning the skin together in as even a way as possible. I would do no more than about 4 rivets, widely spaced on one side, then flip over and halve the distance with fresh rivets, and so on till done. I f you are familiar with the "halve the distance" rule used to avoid oil canning then this will make sense. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, VH-ZEE wings finished, fuselage kit on order. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Gonzalez, Manuel [mailto:manuel.gonzalez(at)lmco.com] Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 9:43 To: 'rv7-list' Subject: RV7-List: riveting rudder trailing edge I am about to rivet the trailing edge of my rudder. Never been there, never done that. I have thoroughly read section 5H of the manual, but I want to be sure. How many rivets do you do per side before you flip over to the other side? Do you skip a few and do them all on one side before going to the other side? Any tricks/suggestions would be appreciated. manuel gonzalez rv-7A generous _- Contributions other messages. members. http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VP100LL(at)AOL.com
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Subject: Re: riveting rudder trailing edge
In a message dated 11/26/2002 5:49:20 PM Central Standard Time, David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au writes: > Manuel, > I just finished mine about a week ago. After the glue dried I removed the angle stock and put a cleco in every other hole. I started at the top and squeezed with the squeezer the rivit about half way. dont let the squeezer mash your skin. The 2nd rivit was in the middle and did the same. The 3rd rivit was at the bottom and did it the same way only squeezing the rivit about half way. Then I went between the bottom and the center and squeezed another. I would put in and squeeze a rivit halfway between the last. After I had a rivit in every other hole, I removed the clecos and put in the rivits facing the other way. and did the same thing one on top one on bottom and one in the center of them going half way between rivits until all holes had a rivit. then I back rivited to the final fit. It turned out very good. I hope this helps Vince 7A emp AL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Gift Selection Added - List Fund Raiser! [Please Read]
Dear Listers, I've just added a great new last minute Gift Selection to this year's List Fund Raiser line up! I have a very limited number of sets of a wonderful collection of Aircraft Technical books by Jeppesen entitled "The A&P Technical Series Book Set". This is a great opportunity to make a generous Contribution to support the Lists and walk away with a great set of reference manuals at the same time. This set of books normally retails for over $117 PLUS shipping, but you can pick up your set AND make this year's List Contribution for a cool C-note - that's a $100, by the way! :-) I'm thinking "Great Christmas Gift"... There's more information on the books and making your Contribution at the List Contribution web site: Email List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution We're coming close to the official end of this year's List Fund Raiser and if you haven't yet made your Contribution, there's still time get your name on that List of Contributors! The percentage of contributors is kind of low this year but I'm hoping many of you are just holding out until the last minute! I want to thank each and everyone of you that has already made a donation to support the continued operation and upgrade of these List Services. As I've mentioned in the past, running these Lists is a labor of love for me and the hours upon hours of code development, system maintenance, and upgrades are MY Contribution to support this great resource for Builders and Flyer's alike. Won't your take a minute and make YOUR Contribution today? I want to thank you for your support both during the Fund Raiser but also throughout the year in the form of kind words and moral support. A nice comment from a List member about how much the lists have helped them is always a sure way to brighten my day! Thank you to all! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [PLEASE READ!] "What is my Contribution used for?"
Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What is my Contribution used for?", and this is a valid question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the expensive, business-class, high-speed Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine and List Browser. It pays for 14+ years worth of online archive data available for instant random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and Photoshare. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements about these days? I will venture to say - next to none... It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE! Email List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Report...
Dear Listers, This is the last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser. Based on previous year's percentages of Lister's making a Contribution, this year we are nearly 40% behind the normal... And I thought all those great gifts would eke the percentage up past the average a little. Oh well. Maybe people just don't really mind the flashing banner ads for Viagra, and popups for X10 minicams... There's still plenty of time to get your name of the List of Contributors. I'll probably publish the LOC on Monday night after I process the checks from the Post Office. I do want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year. Your support is greatly appreciated and is what makes the Lists possible. How to support your Lists this month: http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: All New List Digest Format!!
Dear Listers, I've just finished up some awesome code that will completely change your thinking about how email Digests should work and look! Yeah, I'm kind of proud of it, that is true... :-) What you'll be getting in the new List Digest message is the following: The main message will contain the new text-based index I introduced a few weeks back. But here's where things get different... Instead of simply including all of the day's posts in line within the message, there will now be included two enclosures - one with a HTML encoded version of the Digests, and another with the usual text-only version of the Digests. I think you're really going to like the new HTML enclosure of the Digests. All of the Indexes at the top are now hyperlinked to the actual posts and there are hyperlinks at the top of each post that will: o Take you back to the Index o Take you to the next post o Take you to the previous post o Allow you to respond to the LIST regarding the message o Allow you to respond directly to the POSTER regarding the message You'll have to check it out to appreciate the full goodness of the new format! :-) The text-only version is basically exactly the same data that has been normally sent in line within the message. You'll also note that the filenames of the enclosures are such that they can be conveniently placed in a personal "archive" directory for future reference. Hope you enjoy the new Digest format!!! Oh, and don't forget about the Fund Raiser! :-) Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
"Rv-List"
Subject: RV's, BAD Wind! & Larry Vetterman (Long).
Date: Dec 01, 2002
Hi All, I just arrived home from my Thanksgiving flight to Sturgis-SD from Minneapolis. Instead of a lengthy trip report, I've just got one (OK, 2) interesting items to report on. I left for Sturgis Last Wed (11/27) from Minneapolis at 10:00 am. Weather forecast for Sturgis was partly cloudy with light winds NW@10-15. I headed out under the overcast in Minnesota, found a hole and climbed on top. Perfect sailing until Pierre-SD. I was cruising at 9500', and started to get banged around pretty good, so I slowed down from my 180mph to about 160. It didn't help much. At this point the weather was hazy, but no cloud layer so I headed on towards the Black Hills I now could see in the distance. As the turbulence got worse, I decided to see if I could find a better altitude, all to no avail. I was really getting the crap beat out of me, so the next step was to start trying to find out what the winds were like in Sturgis. I dialed up Rapid City tower and just caught a message from a NWA DC-9 as follows: "RAP Tower, NWAxxx is going around, we had some pretty bad wind shear on final...could you give us an current wind condition report when we turn base again". RAP Tower replied, and reported current winds a few minutes later. "NWAxxx, winds variable 270-330o @35Gusting-42". My heart skipped a beat and my jaw hit my lap! 35-42, could that be right???!?!?! I mean the forecast had said 10-15! I decided to have a short conversation with ATC in RAP to confirm my worst susupicions. They confirmed that winds were terribly gusty and gave me the same report as the NWA folks. I asked if they knew what Sturgis, Spearfish or any of the other Northern Hills were, and they said it's pretty much blowing bad everywhere. I decided to plow on (slowly) to Sturgis. Got to the airport flying sideways, and entered the pattern the best I could. The windsock was straight out stiff, and about 30o off the runway (29). I decided I had to try so I lined up, no flaps, and flew right down to the runway. It wasn't pretty, I've never moved a stick and rudder so violently from stop to stop in my life, but only one small bounce and I was down. Here's the funny thing. My heart was pounding so heard I just stopped as quickly as I could and sat there for a couple of seconds. When I looked outside, I was sitting smack on top of the numbers. I had to wipe the sweat off my palms, and started the 4600' taxi to the ramp. Needless to say, I could raise the tail just sitting still, and the turn off the runway was difficult but doable at crawling speed. I parked on the ramp and couldn't get out of the plane, because the plane wouldn't stay put (no parking-brake), so the line guy put some bricks under the tires to hold the plane still. The G-Meter had +4/-2 on it, and I hadn't done ANY aerobatics - just turbulence. Now, you may think I'm completely crazy, but I filled up with gas and decided to fly over to my dads place (2 minute flight) which was ultimately my final destination. My takeoff roll was only a couple of plane lengths! My dad's runway is the same direction as Sturgis, and actually a bit longer so I headed out. It took 2 tries to put it on the ground there and once again stop-to-stop on the stick/rudder, but all ended up OK with me COMPLETELY WORE OUT. Speaking of my dads place, he just finished the "modification" on the runway, which has resulted in 5,000'x75' of perfectly smooth grass/gravel. It's minutes from Mt.Rushmore and Devils Tower, and right against Bear Butte. We're planning on having a BBQ this summer so keep your eyes open for a good chance for an unofficial fly-in! The runway is so smooth, that during a calm day, even a greenhorn like me could consistently stick some beautiful wheel landings. Overall I'm now even more impressed with these planes than before. I came home today in 2:15 (225-235mph over the ground,) and it was smooth as glass at 10.5K', FYI the trip is 520 miles. I won't voluntarily EVER fly in 35mph winds, but at least I know the plane will do it if it has to. One more thing in this rambling note. While filling up with gas yesterday in Sturgis (I was giving rides like mad), I taxied up to the pump and behold-ANOTHER RV! It was a gorgeous RV4. Right away the guy walked up and started talking to me. He new who I was, but I didn't know him. It was Larry Vetterman, just out goofing around. After I filled up Larry wanted to go over and buzz my dads place again (he hadn't seen the new runway). We got to do some really good formation practice. Just an FYI---His plane is every bit as good looking as his exhausts, the only difference to most, is that he has Vortex Generators. More to come on that later. Well, sorry for the lengthy note. I'm usually one to keep 'em short. This was my first long flight in my newly minted RV6, so I had to brag! For those still building, KEEP IT UP. It's Soooooooo worth it! Happy Flying & Building, Stein Bruch RV6(My crosswind angel)60hrs, Minneapolis Flying like mad! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New, NEW List Digest Format...
Dear Listers, Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still, it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW arrangement. Here's how it works now: o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer. o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests will be found at the top of the digest email. o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email following the URL Links. o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before. o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The URL for the main digest page is: http://www.matronics.com/digest From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest. o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here. o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top. Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT version. A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine, List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78 characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the problem any longer either. Woo hoo! So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links, followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped onto the next line. Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to get everybody so stirred up over the format change! The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Howard" <judy109(at)infi.net>
Subject: Not receving RV 7 posts
Date: Dec 16, 2002
For some reason , I'm not receiving any messages from the RV7 site ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Greene" <timgreene@go-concepts.com>
Subject: Re: Not receving RV 7 posts
Date: Dec 17, 2002
Me neither. ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard" <judy109(at)infi.net> Subject: RV7-List: Not receving RV 7 posts > > For some reason , I'm not receiving any messages from the RV7 site > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gsuit" <gsuit(at)ih2000.net>
Subject: Not receving RV 7 posts
Date: Dec 17, 2002
I thought everyone was just rebelling against Matt persistent 'contributions emails' :) ~Just kidding Matt. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Howard" <judy109(at)infi.net>
Subject: Stopped receiving posts
Date: Dec 21, 2002
Haven't received any posts since Thur. 12/19/02 really miss all the good information. thanks for your help. Howard Sjursen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karied4(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Installing the skins on the HS
Date: Dec 23, 2002
I'm getting ready to place the skins on the horizontal stabilizer and the plans have you "Rivet HS-404 and HS-405 to the front spar" before you start riveting the skins on. If this is true how do you get to the HS-707 nose rib with the bucking bar after you have done one side? Looks like it's out of sequence but all Vans' told me was that that haven't had any complaints regarding this. Am I reading this wrong? Know what I like about reading plans? Nothing......not a damn thing! :-) Cheers, Happy Holidays everyone! Karie Daniel Maple Valley, WA. RV-7A QB (empennage in progress) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cindy Gastrich" <WJ8M(at)alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Installing the skins on the HS
Date: Dec 23, 2002
as I recall just leave out the most inboard rib until you have it bucked. Tom F. Gastrich Alaska - The Last Frontier ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" <karied4(at)attbi.com> Subject: RV7-List: Installing the skins on the HS > > I'm getting ready to place the skins on the horizontal stabilizer and the plans have you "Rivet HS-404 and HS-405 to the front spar" before you start riveting the skins on. If this is true how do you get to the HS-707 nose rib with the bucking bar after you have done one side? > > Looks like it's out of sequence but all Vans' told me was that that haven't had any complaints regarding this. Am I reading this wrong? > > > Know what I like about reading plans? Nothing......not a damn thing! :-) > > Cheers, Happy Holidays everyone! > > Karie Daniel > Maple Valley, WA. > RV-7A QB (empennage in progress) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gsuit" <gsuit(at)ih2000.net>
Subject: Installing the skins on the HS
Date: Dec 23, 2002
Karie, If my memory serves me correctly, Vans shows a bit of ingenuity here with the way the HS skeleton fits into the skin. The 707 will be riveted to the skin first, sort of as a bracing point for the rest of the skeleton, and because you wouldn't be able to buck the -3.5 rivets if the 702 front spar were there... Anyway, you rivet the 707 to the skin first, then the rest of the skeleton goes in behind. In the end, you'll blind rivet the 702 front spar to the 707 nose rib. Drop me a line directly if this doesn't make any sense...I've got some pics I could send you. Clayton Henderson Beaumont, TX RV-7 (QB Wings) N454CH --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2002
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Installing the skins on the HS
Karie, It's not obvious from the drawings, but the you'll see in the written instructions on page 6-4, fourth and fifth bullets - Cleco then rivet HS-707 to the top side of the skin (then rivet the bottom). This is done before the skin is placed over the rest of the assembly. Without the HS-702 and HS-404 in place, the back of the rivets for can easily be reached with a bucking bar. I had to polish some additional edges on my small bucking bar (they polish very easily with the scotchbrite wheel) to get the bar in the tight space, but it's not bad. The spar assembly is then added. At that point, everything is accessible for riveting, except the 707, which is already riveted to the skin. The three rivets attaching 707 to 702 and 708 are blind rivets. It takes a little finesse to get the rivet puller in the correct position, then squeeze the handle, but it's very doable. I just did this so feel free to write back if something here isn't clear. Wayne Halbsgut Perkasie, PA RV-7A empennage 25% ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" <karied4(at)attbi.com> Subject: RV7-List: Installing the skins on the HS > > I'm getting ready to place the skins on the horizontal stabilizer and the plans have you "Rivet HS-404 and HS-405 to the front spar" before you start riveting the skins on. If this is true how do you get to the HS-707 nose rib with the bucking bar after you have done one side? > > Looks like it's out of sequence but all Vans' told me was that that haven't had any complaints regarding this. Am I reading this wrong? > > > Know what I like about reading plans? Nothing......not a damn thing! :-) > > Cheers, Happy Holidays everyone! > > Karie Daniel > Maple Valley, WA. > RV-7A QB (empennage in progress) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2002
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: inch pound torque wrench
I over torqued (broke) the hinge bolts on my empennage when using a discount brand. I ended up purchasing a Snap-on, and it works well. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: EIS
Date: Dec 26, 2002
Ollie, There are a lot of users of the EIS monitor. Myself included. I believe just about all of us using an Eggenfellner Subaru are installing the EIS monitor and, in my opinion, it is the best bang for the buck. The only bad thing I could say is that it doesn't look as sophisticated as some of the more expensive monitor out there, but I guess you get what you pay for and in this case, you get a lot. To make the EIS monitor fit in a panel layout more gracefully, I decided to make an option for it for my Modular Panel. www.affordablepanels.com/new_products.html . (Sorry for the plug). I am only giving ou the link so that you can get some ideas in how to fit the look of the EIS in your layout. As a matter of fact, quite a few builders have e-mailed me telling me that they saw the EIS option on my website, and they are adapting a version of their own in Van's panel. Good luck! Regards, Fabian Lefler RV-9A 90292 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> Subject: RV-List: EIS > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" > > Listers--- > I have checked the archives and don't see much listed on usage of > Grand Rapids Tech.(EIS) eng.monitor.Is anyone using the 4000 and if so what are your comments on it. > Ollie 6A Central Fl. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Tip-up Canopy Stiffening
Date: Dec 27, 2002
There has been rv-list posts about the need to stiffen the tip-up canopy frame on the RV6. Is this an issue with any RV7/7A tip up builders? I am right to this stage and can see some benefit to doing it just to make the underside of the frame look better when it is open for the next guest co-pilot (wife) to climb in. (Paul Besing has nice documentation on his web site showing details of the process if any 7/7A tip-up builders have no already looked at it.) Larry in Indiana, working on RV7 to be named 3XG if its girl. Or 3XB if its a nose wheeler ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: Resistance Fuel Gauge Sender
Date: Dec 28, 2002
Regarding the standard Stewart-Warner resistance fuel level sender units... I need to know if the resistance goes up when the tank gets more full, or the resistance goes down when the tank gets more full. I need to celebrate my EI-FL2 fuel gauge, and setting this perameter is a prerequisite to filling the tanks and calibration. Jim Tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2002
From: John Brunke <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Accidental IFR!!!!
Dear Stein, Be careful what you admit on paper and especially the internet. The FAA loves it when people admit they broke some rules. Glad you came out of this OK John Brunke ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2002
Subject: Seats and belts -Drain holes
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
Hi What's out there for seats and seat belts? Just started to look. Have an idea for those who are assembling the belly skins. I have placed a number of fuel fittings down the center inside on my set up. Chances are that a small leak may occur. I'm placing Styrofoam on the floor with skins on top of that. Styrofoam and gas do not get along. So I'm making a seal around the stiffeners with drain holes. You may want to think about putting a little permatex seal between the stiffeners and the belly skins. Scott 7A at IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: Installing the skins on the HS
Date: Dec 30, 2002
Karie Sounds like you have 707 the wrong way round Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" <karied4(at)attbi.com> Subject: RV7-List: Installing the skins on the HS > > I'm getting ready to place the skins on the horizontal stabilizer and the plans have you "Rivet HS-404 and HS-405 to the front spar" before you start riveting the skins on. If this is true how do you get to the HS-707 nose rib with the bucking bar after you have done one side? > > Looks like it's out of sequence but all Vans' told me was that that haven't had any complaints regarding this. Am I reading this wrong? > > > Know what I like about reading plans? Nothing......not a damn thing! :-) > > Cheers, Happy Holidays everyone! > > Karie Daniel > Maple Valley, WA. > RV-7A QB (empennage in progress) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: Resistance Fuel Gauge Sender
Date: Dec 30, 2002
They mention the exact resistance for full and empty in the builders manual, unfortunately I dont have the manual in front of me to advise. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> Subject: RV7-List: Resistance Fuel Gauge Sender > > Regarding the standard Stewart-Warner resistance fuel level sender units... > I need to know if the resistance goes up when the tank gets more full, or > the resistance goes down when the tank gets more full. > > I need to celebrate my EI-FL2 fuel gauge, and setting this perameter is a > prerequisite to filling the tanks and calibration. > > Jim > Tampa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Skykingjfg(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 30, 2002
Subject: Fuel Senders
I just bought 2 of the resistive type from Van's for my RV7. I picked the cheap way out because I will be installing a fuel flow meter/totalizer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Resistance Fuel Gauge Sender
Date: Dec 30, 2002
Cliff - make a mock up of the fuel tank (cardboard box) and mount the sender on it. Use an ohmmeter to measure resistance as you move the float up and down inside your mock fuel tank. Will that work????? > They mention the exact resistance for full and empty in the builders manual, > unfortunately I dont have the manual in front of me to advise. > Cliff --------------------------------------------- 1st month Free! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Lightweight Carpet
Date: Dec 30, 2002
Stein Bruch, Thanks for the heads up on the lightweight carpet. Where did you source yours from? Is it very thick at all, something more like heavy felt?? Happy Building all, Lincoln Schlecht --------------------------------------------- 1st month Free! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2002
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Trim servo clearance problem
I am installing the electric elevator trim servo in the elevator and have run into the following problem. I riveted the two brackets that hold the servo, to the cover plate. When I attempt to install the servo, the bottom edge of the servo hits the rivets before the servo flange mates to the brackets. Has anyone else had this problem and what have you done about it? Thanks Wayne Halbsgut Perkasie, PA RV-7A Empennage 90% ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: Resistance Fuel Gauge Sender
Date: Dec 31, 2002
I would rather do the test on the actual tanks before I close them up. Regards Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net> Subject: RV7-List: Resistance Fuel Gauge Sender > > Cliff - make a mock up of the fuel tank (cardboard box) and mount the sender > on it. Use an ohmmeter to measure resistance as you move the float up and > down inside your mock fuel tank. Will that work????? > > > > They mention the exact resistance for full and empty in the builders > manual, > > unfortunately I dont have the manual in front of me to advise. > > Cliff > > --------------------------------------------- > 1st month Free! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: Trim servo clearance problem
Date: Dec 31, 2002
I have just finished mine and had a similar problem. All I did was sqeeze the rivets more, the servo just touches the rivets but the servo is flush on the bracket. Regards Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Halbsgut" <halbsgut(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Trim servo clearance problem > > I am installing the electric elevator trim servo in the elevator and have run into the following problem. I riveted the two brackets that hold the servo, to the cover plate. When I attempt to install the servo, the bottom edge of the servo hits the rivets before the servo flange mates to the brackets. > > Has anyone else had this problem and what have you done about it? > > > Thanks > Wayne Halbsgut > Perkasie, PA > RV-7A Empennage 90% > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Subject: Re: N555JN Pics!
From: Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com>
That is positively the most beautiful instrument panel I have ever seen! Best wishes, Walter Casey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: N555JN Pics!
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Thanks! And, to my surprise, it all works! jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walter Casey Subject: Re: RV7-List: N555JN Pics! That is positively the most beautiful instrument panel I have ever seen! Best wishes, Walter Casey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Resistance Fuel Gauge Sender
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Cliff Lotter said: " I would rather do the test on the actual tanks before I close them up." Well, that would work, but then you have holes cut in your tanks to mount the senders. You might find that the resistance of the sending units isn't where you would want it, and you might end up abandoning the idea of using those and would try something else. That is all speculation of course! When I build something I usually change ideas three or four times before settling on something. You may have you mind set on the Stewart Warner sending units, but you ~just might~ save yourself some headaches doing the tests on a mock-up instead of the actual tanks to find any problems BEFORE they become problems. Later, Linc --------------------------------------------- 1st month Free! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: N555JN Pics!
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Hey Jim, How did you make that panel? Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: N555JN Pics! - Fiberglass Panel (LONG)
Date: Dec 31, 2002
I've gotten this question about 30 times today, So I'll put it on the list rather than private email. SNIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Jim, How did you make that panel? Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Here is the link to the picture if some of you don't know what we are talking about... Click on the "Panel" button to see the panel. http://www.steinair.com/jn/ The fiberglass panel in "Razzmatazz" N555JN started life as a fiberglass panel from Aerotronics, intended for the Glastar. It does NOT fit the RV in any way shape or form (they will tell you that "someone has put one in an RV-6 and it was not too bad" but that someone is me and it was a LOT of work). I cut that $450 panel in 7 pieces initially and mounted each one of these pieces onto the regular RV-6 0.90 aluminum panel blank (which was temporarily mounted in place in the airplane). Three of the 7 pieces later had to be cut in half again to make room for the instruments I wanted. For instance, I knew I wanted a full UPS stack, but the height was short by about 2 inches. Also, the original piece had a 4.5 inch 'console' that hung down from the center. This was not long enough to reach the spar (where I wanted to mount my fuel selector)... the width was WAY too wide, so this had to be cut in half (actually the center was cut out and the two edges were used so I could retain the detail in the side pieces. I kept moving the pieces around until I liked the layout and it fit within the width and height of the RV-6. Once I had it laid out as I liked, I began to fiberglass each of the pieces back together again... forming many pieces in-between from scratch. Once the glass was laid onto the pieces, I attached them back to the AL panel so they would remain lined up as I wanted. For the sub-panels where all of the instruments go, I took the entire fiberglass panel to Memphis and spent a day with Steve Davis. We traced all of the sub-panels into CAD and then he cut the AL and the plastic overlays for me, reverse engraving all the markings, placards, labels, etc. I glassed in screws into the back of the panel in 4 places. Eventually, the stock Panel was put into place permanently, except that it had big holes cut in it all over the place... This was done so that the sub-panels (0.90 AL) screw through the fiberglass and then into what would have been the standard panel. This is so that the weight of the instruments, radios, etc are supported by the AL structure behind the panel and not by the fiberglass piece itself (so the fiberglass won't crack with time). Essentially, the Fiberglass panel is just along for the ride, the instruments are bolted to their sub-panels which are in turn bolted to the AL frame of the airplane. Prior to mounting, the panel was painted and the upholstery was put in... then the panel was put in... thus the fit looks great. The bottom of the panel on BOTH sides is exactly the same level as the original AL panel... it does not stick down further... except in the middle where the UPS radio stack is. I can remove any of the sub-panels individually if I ever want to, or I can make a new sub-panel if I decide on a different instrument (I hope I never do!). Bottom line... it is really a beautiful panel but was too much work. I had a great time making it and I LOVED the building process. I would not do it again, however. jim Tampa 4.9 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: wing mating measurements
Date: Jan 01, 2003
Here's a new year's "treat" for RV-7 builders out there who haven't mated their wings to the fuselage yet... I didn't have a clear handle on what would be the ideal height for inboard and outboard wing supports while mating the wings to the fuselage. One builder had told me that the wing tip should be "about 7 inches higher than the root," but that ended up being too high. I've got exact measurements for anybody who needs 'em. Keep in mind that my garage floor is NOT level, but these figures should get you in the right ballpark, say within 1/4" or so: *** Fuselage Belly Skin at F-704 Height above ground: 21 1/4" (relative heights based here) *** Wing Inboard End, Supported Under Spar Height above ground: 21 1/2" Relative Height: 1/4" *** Wing Tip, Supported Under Spar Height above ground: 27 3/8" Relative Height: 6 1/8" *** Tail Cone at F-710 Height above ground: 32 1/4" Relative Height: 11" The relative heights are what are most important to me, especially when building supports for the wings! I hope this helps...my mind would have been put at serious ease if I had these figures before today! 8 ) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Subject: [ Fred Stucklen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Fred Stucklen Subject: RV-6A IFR Inst Panel & Wiring http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/wstucklen1@cox.net.01.02.2003/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Alternative Primers
I've tried Aircraft Finish Systems Waterborne primer and zinc chromate in spray cans. Does anyone know why it's important to use "aircraft" primer. What's the difference between a/c primer and various hardware store primers, such as automotive primer? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Skykingjfg(at)AOL.com
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Subject: Re: Trim servo clearance problem
I had the same problem. I called Van's and asked if I could shim the trim servo up using a .032 aluminium shim between the servo and the bracket. They recommended that I trim some of the plastic off of the servo. I don't like that idea. I think I'll try the shims. and possibly squeeze the rivets a bit too ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Skykingjfg(at)AOL.com
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Subject: Re: Alternative Primers
I've been using Sherwin Williams P60G2 industrial wash primer for most of the large surfaces. It is a 2 part primer (but not epoxy) and is easy to use. I believe this is the same thing Van uses on their quick build kits. For touch up I've been using NAPA 7220 rattle can. It is a self etching primer that works good. There are plenty of 40 year old aluminium airplanes around in good condition that were not primed. On the other hand most of the people building RV's will be in bad shape in 40 years (I'll be 90). Don't sweat it. Build it fast and fly it soon. It will outlive you, primed or not primed. Godspeed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Alternative Primers
Date: Jan 06, 2003
John, I don't think there is anything magic about aircraft primers. Some things to consider: Aircraft Finishing Systems products are both water borne and non-toxic - good for your health and the disposal of waste. Zinc chromate is highly toxic and is banned in some countries, such as here in Australia. Two part primers tend to be resistant to oils, hydraulic fluid and solvents, while single part and some two part may not be. You need to decide what protection you want and ask about any product you are considering. You can also ask yourself whether you need primer at all, for the interior of most of my plane (excluding the cockpit), I am alodining only. It takes 60 seconds and has no overspray or cleanup, and adds no weight to the plane. For more on primer wars check out the archives, Sam Buchanan and Andy Karmy web sites. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE, enjoying a warm summer. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: John Burns [mailto:jgburns(at)comcast.net] Sent: Friday, 3 January 2003 14:57 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Alternative Primers I've tried Aircraft Finish Systems Waterborne primer and zinc chromate in spray cans. Does anyone know why it's important to use "aircraft" primer. What's the difference between a/c primer and various hardware store primers, such as automotive primer? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Wing ribs
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Cliff, Yes this is a problem, the skins wont fit the frame. Tell Vans they blew it and get them replaced. They are usually very good at fixing this sort of inbuilt headwind. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Lotter [mailto:exodus(at)gds.co.za] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2003 16:21 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Wing ribs Hi all .Hope everyone enjoys a good year! I am busy with my wings and found that I have 20 x 711L [left] ribs only and not the normal 10 right and 10 left.Is this a problem as they still fit but the flanges face the wrong way? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clinchy, Dave" <ClinchD(at)losrios.edu>
Subject: Wing ribs
Date: Jan 06, 2003
Cliff and David - I believe I had a similar misunderstanding of the ribs in my 7 wing. I'm not sure if yours is the same, but before sending back to Vans, try laying out all the ribs for the left wing, just as the drawing shows (the drawing just shows the left wing) then with the remaining ribs lay out a mirror image of the left wing for the right wing. The rib numbering from the drawings (711L etc) didn't seem to work for the right wing, but by making a mirror image for the right wing I had all the correct ribs with the flanges and tooling holes all properly aligned. Good Luck! Dave C. 7 wings -----Original Message----- From: Francis, David CMDR [mailto:David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au] Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED : RV7-List: Wing ribs Cliff, Yes this is a problem, the skins wont fit the frame. Tell Vans they blew it and get them replaced. They are usually very good at fixing this sort of inbuilt headwind. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Lotter [mailto:exodus(at)gds.co.za] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2003 16:21 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Wing ribs Hi all .Hope everyone enjoys a good year! I am busy with my wings and found that I have 20 x 711L [left] ribs only and not the normal 10 right and 10 left.Is this a problem as they still fit but the flanges face the wrong way? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternative Primers
I'm very interested in your take on the primer thing.. I'm doing the wings, and growing weary of the extra time, money, and weight that the primer is adding to my structures. 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Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: Mike Divan <mike1qc(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative Primers
Tried both AFS and AKZO on a trash can and decided I liked the AKZO better. I wrote the makers of the AKZO and asked them what they recomended to prep the aluminum. There answer is below. What works for me is clean with the AFS cleaner echer and a scotch brite pad, clean with acetone then spray the AKZO. "The simplest way to prep the aluminum is to wet abrade with scotch brite and water, followed by solvent cleaning with acetone, or MEK, or toluene. The alternative is alumiprep 33 acid plus alodine 1201 conversion coating. This is not preferred because of the hazardous chromates in alodine. In either case, before priming, it is essential to remove the thin oxide layer that forms on aluminum. Scotch brite or acid etch will accomplish this. Good luck. John Griffin Sales Manager Akzo Nobel Aerospace Coatings john.griffin(at)wau.akzonobel.com PH: 502-721-8109 Fax: 502-721-8043 Mobile: 847-612-5157 Mike Divan RV-7A (Building Empennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternative Primers
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Frank Lanier" <flanier(at)microsoft.com>
Just to throw in my two cents ... I've used the AKZO primer for both the tail and wings and really like it. I use alumiprep and a scotch brite pad to get the surfaces ready and then prime. It gives a really hard durable coating and dries relatively fast. As others have said, priming is a matter of taste and finding what works for you. Just make sure you follow the proper procedures for the primer you choose to use and you'll be OK. Frank Lanier Sloooowly working on the wings Maple Valley, WA -----Original Message----- From: Mike Divan [mailto:mike1qc(at)yahoo.com] Subject: Re: RV7-List: Alternative Primers Tried both AFS and AKZO on a trash can and decided I liked the AKZO better. I wrote the makers of the AKZO and asked them what they recomended to prep the aluminum. There answer is below. What works for me is clean with the AFS cleaner echer and a scotch brite pad, clean with acetone then spray the AKZO. "The simplest way to prep the aluminum is to wet abrade with scotch brite and water, followed by solvent cleaning with acetone, or MEK, or toluene. The alternative is alumiprep 33 acid plus alodine 1201 conversion coating. This is not preferred because of the hazardous chromates in alodine. In either case, before priming, it is essential to remove the thin oxide layer that forms on aluminum. Scotch brite or acid etch will accomplish this. Good luck. John Griffin Sales Manager Akzo Nobel Aerospace Coatings john.griffin(at)wau.akzonobel.com PH: 502-721-8109 Fax: 502-721-8043 Mobile: 847-612-5157 Mike Divan RV-7A (Building Empennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - ALODINE
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Brooks, There is much written on alodine, see Sam Buchanans site. My personal assessment of alodine follows: Prodedure: 1. prelim clean with methylated spirits to remove oil and ink. If particularly dirty also clean with Dawn dishwashing fluid. 2. Soak in alumiprep 33 until frothing intensely. If you see a black deposit on edges and in holes you have overdone it. 3. Rinse in clean water. 4. Immerse in an alodine bath till golden, takes about 60 seconds, occasionally longer. 5. Wash in water to stop the process, recover the alodine for further use. General comments: Alodine is toxic, so I always wear gloves. I tried spraying it with poor results, and it needs a respirator for spraying, but not a bath. A bath gives the best results, but for skins and long items I just put it on saw horses, and wipe on gently with a saturated cloth. I do not scuff alclad skins which will not be painted (eg inside wings). They are protected by the alclad, the aim of alodining is to conversion coat all holes and cut edges. I do scuff ribs, they are tortured by the manufacturing process and have some embedded oils, so clean them well. I recover the alodine into the original bottles after use. Keep the lid on tight to avoid evaporation. Alodine loses effect after lots of use, so I replace it. 2 gallons did my wings. Alodine is very soft for the first 30 minutes. When cured it is more sensitive to scratches than a good 2 part primer. Alodine provides good corrosion protection, is toxic, but adds no weight, is more economical than primer, has no overspray and water cleanup. With minimal scuffing required, the labour is much less than spray painting. For my exterior I will be using primer and topcoat, applied by a professional. Have fun. David Francis, VH-ZEE. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Brooks Wolfe [mailto:slipstream13(at)earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2003 17:10 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV7-List: Alternative Primers > I'm very interested in your take on the primer thing.. I'm doing the wings, and growing weary of the extra time, money, and weight that the primer is adding to my structures. I have no experience with alodine, and am interested in trying it. Brooks Wolfe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: nibbling for the landing lights
I purchased a cheap air nibbler and experimented on scrap. There were significant scratches on both sides of the cut, so I braced the material on all sides and repeated. Same problem. Aircraft Spruce has a hand nibbler for about $16. Does anyone have experience with their tool? If so, did it work well? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: nibbling for the landing lights
Try lining the area with tape. > >I purchased a cheap air nibbler and experimented on scrap. There were >significant scratches on both sides of the cut, so I braced the material on >all sides and repeated. Same problem. > >Aircraft Spruce has a hand nibbler for about $16. Does anyone have >experience with their tool? If so, did it work well? > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: nibbling for the landing lights
Fellas, I used a die grinder with a cutoff wheel, sanding drums and small scotchbrite wheel. Beautiful results in each wing. Ross Schlotthauer RV7 Fuse --- Scott Bilinski wrote: > > > Try lining the area with tape. > > > > > >I purchased a cheap air nibbler and experimented on > scrap. There were > >significant scratches on both sides of the cut, so > I braced the material on > >all sides and repeated. Same problem. > > > >Aircraft Spruce has a hand nibbler for about $16. > Does anyone have > >experience with their tool? If so, did it work > well? > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 8220 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Subject: Priming
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
Priming fiber glass to paint. What would are you guys going to use? or can you just paint it? Scott Trask working on fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Washers
Date: Jan 09, 2003
How do I identify the different AN washers supplied as most of them are in the same bags? Cliff Lotter South Africa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Washers
Cliff, If you have an Aircraft Spruce catalog, on page 92 you'll find the dimensions of the AN washers. Go through the washers until you have one of each type, then measure them with a ruler, micrometer.... Tape them down to a piece of cardboard and label each one. After you sort out the bag, hang the sample on the wall or keep it on the workbench for reference. You'll only have to do this once. I keep a copy of all of the AN rivet, bolt and washer dimensions hanging in my shop. You can find the charts in the A/S catalog, as well as several other catalogs. Just note that some of the washers come in the standard thickness and a lite version (1/2 the thickness). Van's doesn't seem to make any callout as to which to use, so it's your call. Wayne Perkasie, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za> Subject: RV7-List: Washers > > How do I identify the different AN washers supplied as most of them are in the same bags? > Cliff Lotter > South Africa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: Chris <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV 7"
Subject: New rudder trailing edge design
Does anyone know why Van's redesigned this part of the plane? It seems like it is harder to build that way from what I have read so there must be some advantage to the design over the old one. And if it is better there why not for the Elevators? -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: New rudder trailing edge design
Date: Jan 09, 2003
They needed a bigger rudder for the 7 to meet spin specs and just took the 9's rudder and put it on the 7. Now why is the 9's different? Idoknow. -----Original Message----- From: Chris [mailto:chrisw3(at)cox.net] Subject: RV7-List: New rudder trailing edge design Does anyone know why Van's redesigned this part of the plane? It seems like it is harder to build that way from what I have read so there must be some advantage to the design over the old one. And if it is better there why not for the Elevators? -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: New rudder trailing edge design
I don't think it is necessarily any better but it is cheaper for Van's to manufacture. I would think that replacing the manual bending operation with an extra automated shearing operation would save them money. On the RV-9 the elevators use the same new method. Steve Eberhart RV-7A - sealed the first fuel tank last week N14SE reserved Chris wrote: > > Does anyone know why Van's redesigned this part of the plane? It seems > like it is harder to build that way from what I have read so there must > be some advantage to the design over the old one. And if it is better > there why not for the Elevators? > > -- > Chris Woodhouse > 3147 SW 127th St. > Oklahoma City, OK 73170 > 405-691-5206 (home) > chrisw(at)programmer.net > N35 20.492' > W97 34.342' > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Washers
Date: Jan 09, 2003
> How do I identify the different AN washers supplied as most of them are in the same bags? > Cliff Lotter > South Africa It's quite easy to tell a 3/16 #3 from a 1/4 #4. There are only a few different callouts per size. Thin, reg and large diameter. You will soon start sorting all of the bags into a system of little bins. The hardware stores sell cheap plastic containers with dozens of small bins/drawers. Put all the #3 washers in one drawer. Put all #4 washers in another drawer. Do the same with the bolts, nuts, rivets, ect. Sooner than later the bag system will frustrate you. Once you re-organize you will be set up for your many years of aircraft owner ship. Maintenance and building is easier when you can see at a glance what you have. Most builders end up using this system. It's what the factories and repair shops do. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Priming fiberglass parts
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Scott Trask, Just use a good quality automotive sealer, and that should be fine. Don't use any rattle can stuff. Happy Building, Linc > Priming fiber glass to paint. What would are you guys going to use? or can > you just paint it? > Scott Trask - - working on fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Alternative Primers
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Mike Divan and Frank Lanier - What is the number of the AKZO primer you are using? Thanks, Linc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternative Primers
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Frank Lanier" <flanier(at)microsoft.com>
Here is the description of the AKZO primer as listed from Aircraft Spruce (I ordered it from them) 2 gal. kit - P/N 09-24735 $106.950 AKZO interior epoxy primer #463.12-8 is a chemically cured 2-component epoxy primer designed to provide maximum protection from various chemicals, hydraulic fluids, aviation fuels, Skydrol fluids, and corrosive causing media. Drying time to touch is 15 minutes and to recoat is 1-24 hours. Shelf life: 2yrs,Color: Green. Used extensively in military and aerospace applications and popular with aircraft builders. Uses 1 gal. of primer & 1 gal. of catalyst. Frank Lanier Maple Valley, WA -----Original Message----- From: flyseaplane [mailto:flyseaplane(at)netzero.net] Subject: RV7-List: Alternative Primers Mike Divan and Frank Lanier - What is the number of the AKZO primer you are using? Thanks, Linc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - JABIRU ENGINE FOR RV7
Date: Jan 09, 2003
For those interested in non-Lycoming engine options for their RV7s, the following is the latest intel from the Jabiru factory on their J6000 engine of 200hp. a. the first prototype engine has completed 150hrs of flight testing. b. A second prototype, with improvements, is under dynamometer test. c. The first batch of 10 engines will be produced in March 03. d. RV6 then RV7 firewall forward kits will be available shortly afterwards. e. The FWF kits will include a completely new engine mount and cowling. The engine is supplied with integral plenum and exhaust, starter, alternator. f. The cowling will not have the typical Lycoming air intake scoop. Carburettor intakes will be NACA scoops on both sides of the cowl, aft, fairly high. g. The oil cooler will have a small intake under the spinner. h. The price of A$25,300 = US$13,915 was described as approximate, to be finalised in the initial production run. The FWF kit is unpriced as yet. i. The integral alternator is permanent magnet, but is externally regulated. j. It can only have fixed pitch or electric constant speed props at this stage. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Impossible rivet location
I've been pretty good at figuring out most of the problems I've encountered while building the empennage, but I'm finally stumped. I'm now working on the wings. I just cleco'd the rear spar parts together. When looking at the center aileron hinge bracket (W-413), the top edge is almost touching the top flange of the spar (W-707). Wouldn't ya know it, the skin rivet is EXACTLY in line with the hinge (the hole is predrilled). I'm not sure a rivet will fit in the space allowed, much less a rivet squeezer or bucking bar. I may also have this problem with rivet above the outside aileron hinge. What have others done when it comes time to rivet this hole? Wayne Perkasie, PA working on the wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Impossible rivet location
Are the wings right side up or is it down? I built my 8 wings with out having this problem and 7 & 8 wings are the same. Also never hesitate to call the factory. > >I've been pretty good at figuring out most of the problems I've encountered >while building the empennage, but I'm finally stumped. > >I'm now working on the wings. >I just cleco'd the rear spar parts together. When looking at the center >aileron hinge bracket (W-413), the top edge is almost touching the top >flange of the spar (W-707). Wouldn't ya know it, the skin rivet is EXACTLY >in line with the hinge (the hole is predrilled). I'm not sure a rivet will >fit in the space allowed, much less a rivet squeezer or bucking bar. > >I may also have this problem with rivet above the outside aileron hinge. > >What have others done when it comes time to rivet this hole? > >Wayne >Perkasie, PA >working on the wings > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Faris" <kf64358(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Impossible rivet location
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Wayne, That is what I thought as well when I first started the wings. If you read ahead you will discover that the wing skins are riveted before the aileron hinge brackets are installed. Therefore you do not have a problem with bucking the skin rivets. Kev RV-7 finishing second wing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Halbsgut" <halbsgut(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Impossible rivet location > > I've been pretty good at figuring out most of the problems I've encountered while building the empennage, but I'm finally stumped. > > I'm now working on the wings. > I just cleco'd the rear spar parts together. When looking at the center aileron hinge bracket (W-413), the top edge is almost touching the top flange of the spar (W-707). Wouldn't ya know it, the skin rivet is EXACTLY in line with the hinge (the hole is predrilled). I'm not sure a rivet will fit in the space allowed, much less a rivet squeezer or bucking bar. > > I may also have this problem with rivet above the outside aileron hinge. > > What have others done when it comes time to rivet this hole? > > Wayne > Perkasie, PA > working on the wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Impossible rivet location
A handful of 3/32 blind rivets can be your friend in a few hard to get at spots. 20 years from now you will never remenber those nasty pop rivet you put in an airplane. cary rhodes --- Kevin Faris wrote: > > > Wayne, > > That is what I thought as well when I first started > the wings. If you read > ahead you will discover that the wing skins are > riveted before the aileron > hinge brackets are installed. Therefore you do not > have a problem with > bucking the skin rivets. > > Kev > RV-7 finishing second wing > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Halbsgut" <halbsgut(at)comcast.net> > To: "RV-builders group" > Subject: RV7-List: Impossible rivet location > > > > > > > I've been pretty good at figuring out most of the > problems I've > encountered while building the empennage, but I'm > finally stumped. > > > > I'm now working on the wings. > > I just cleco'd the rear spar parts together. When > looking at the center > aileron hinge bracket (W-413), the top edge is > almost touching the top > flange of the spar (W-707). Wouldn't ya know it, > the skin rivet is EXACTLY > in line with the hinge (the hole is predrilled). > I'm not sure a rivet will > fit in the space allowed, much less a rivet squeezer > or bucking bar. > > > > I may also have this problem with rivet above the > outside aileron hinge. > > > > What have others done when it comes time to rivet > this hole? > > > > Wayne > > Perkasie, PA > > working on the wings > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Impossible rivet location
Date: Jan 13, 2003
The aileron hinge brackets can easily be riveted to the rear spar *after* the top wing skins have been riveted on, before the bottom skins go on. Just leave the hinge brackets off while you're riveting the top skins. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Halbsgut" <halbsgut(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Impossible rivet location > > I've been pretty good at figuring out most of the problems I've encountered while building the empennage, but I'm finally stumped. > > I'm now working on the wings. > I just cleco'd the rear spar parts together. When looking at the center aileron hinge bracket (W-413), the top edge is almost touching the top flange of the spar (W-707). Wouldn't ya know it, the skin rivet is EXACTLY in line with the hinge (the hole is predrilled). I'm not sure a rivet will fit in the space allowed, much less a rivet squeezer or bucking bar. > > I may also have this problem with rivet above the outside aileron hinge. > > What have others done when it comes time to rivet this hole? > > Wayne > Perkasie, PA > working on the wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Impossible rivet location
Thanks Kevin, I usually read ahead, but didn't catch this one. I cleco'd ALL of the parts on the spar, then just assumed when the instructions said rivet the spar assembly together, it meant including the hinges (the instructions don't actually include the hinges up to that point). Reading the instructions again, I see where the aileron hinges are installed later. Saved me from doing something dumb. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Faris" <kf64358(at)alltel.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Impossible rivet location > > Wayne, > > That is what I thought as well when I first started the wings. If you read > ahead you will discover that the wing skins are riveted before the aileron > hinge brackets are installed. Therefore you do not have a problem with > bucking the skin rivets. > > Kev > RV-7 finishing second wing > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Halbsgut" <halbsgut(at)comcast.net> > To: "RV-builders group" > Subject: RV7-List: Impossible rivet location > > > > > > I've been pretty good at figuring out most of the problems I've > encountered while building the empennage, but I'm finally stumped. > > > > I'm now working on the wings. > > I just cleco'd the rear spar parts together. When looking at the center > aileron hinge bracket (W-413), the top edge is almost touching the top > flange of the spar (W-707). Wouldn't ya know it, the skin rivet is EXACTLY > in line with the hinge (the hole is predrilled). I'm not sure a rivet will > fit in the space allowed, much less a rivet squeezer or bucking bar. > > > > I may also have this problem with rivet above the outside aileron hinge. > > > > What have others done when it comes time to rivet this hole? > > > > Wayne > > Perkasie, PA > > working on the wings > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: Tom Reading <treading(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Canopy frame
Just finished up the linkage to the frame and was reading ahead where it said to mount the c-617 618 619 blocks. Its most likely simple but I can't locate the blocks on the prints or spare parts. Thanks Tom,775TR RES Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2003
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy frame
Tom I was just there last nite The 617 and 168 are fiber blocks They are in one of the bags The 619 is a 1/4 inch bar of alum. The one sent with the the tip up kit is about 1 1/4 wide and about 8 inches long. I didn't want to cut out a chunk of the bar, but I had a 1/4 angle I whacked up. I believe the drawing was 47 cary finish stuff --- Tom Reading wrote: > > > Just finished up the linkage to the frame and was > reading ahead where it > said to mount the c-617 618 619 blocks. Its most > likely simple but I can't > locate the blocks on the prints or spare parts. > Thanks > Tom,775TR RES Canopy > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2003
Subject: [ Fred Stucklen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Fred Stucklen Subject: Instrument Panel & Radio Stack Wiring http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com.01.19.2003/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2003
Subject: [ Ollie Washburn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ollie Washburn Subject: RV Tow Bars... http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ollie-6a@prodigy.net.01.25.2003/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2003
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV6-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 01/27/03
version=2.40 Do the landing lights recessed into the sheared fiberglass wing tips provide equivalent lighting compared to the lights mounted in the leading edge of an RV6 or any RV for that matter? From a night visibility standpoint, if I choose the leading edge to mount the lights, does it matter if you place them just outboard of the fuel tanks or out next the the wing tip? It would be easier to install at the wing tip. Thanks Roger Crandell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - LANDING LIGHT QUESTION
Date: Jan 29, 2003
Roger, There are a number of considerations in choosing where to fit your landing lights. a. if you are at some stage going to fit the tip tanks, its best to have the lights in the leading edge. This simplifies the tank and makes sure your don't lose any fuel capacity from the tip tanks. b. Installing the light in the last bay just inboard of the provides good access to the light fitting and its wires via removing the tip and reaching in the end of the wing. Although this is not much different from removing the tip to access the light if in the tip. c. An installation further inboard from the tip has quite poor access for maintenance. d. You can maximise the illumination by two steps. Have a white or naked aluminium colour on the inside of the light bay to maximise reflected light going forward, and do not install the glass light lens that comes with the kit, just have the leading edge transparency only. The glass lens has surprising light losses, even though it is transparent. e. The worst place to install a landing light is in the engine cowling - vibration, heat and spilled oil are enemies of long life. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au Do the landing lights recessed into the sheared fiberglass wing tips provide equivalent lighting compared to the lights mounted in the leading edge of an RV6 or any RV for that matter? From a night visibility standpoint, if I choose the leading edge to mount the lights, does it matter if you place them just outboard of the fuel tanks or out next the the wing tip? It would be easier to install at the wing tip. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Krok" <pkrok(at)eee.org>
Subject: RE: Landing Light Question
Date: Jan 29, 2003
Check out the following site if you want to go ahead with wing tip lighting. In other parts of Randy Pflanzer's site he gives a better description and cost of the light kit he purchased (about 100 dollars). His photos of the project are A1. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/Wings3.html#Wing%20Tip%20Electric al%20Stuff ...go to his F1 Project "wing tip electrical stuff" Randy, if you are out there...thanks. Although I already went for the Duckworks system and have the lights installed, I would have been tempted by the wing tip kit. I don't think I'll ever go for the wing tip tanks...my internal tank is not that large...something to do with age, I think :( Anyway, have a good day! Pete Krok RV-7A Wings Redlands CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2003
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Tank dimple Question
I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies. I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that? Thanks, Dick Tasker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
Date: Jan 30, 2003
Dick, The quality of the dimpling determines the quality of the riveting. The thicker the skins the less amenable they are to being formed into a dimple. You will see in Vans riveting instructions (for non-tank riveting) a suggestion to dimple then lightly shamfer the dimple with a deburring tool. Another approach is to use the tank dies, which I do on the thicker .025 and 0.32 skins. You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need to allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages the skin. When dimpling you can either shamfer or use the tank dies. The dies save labour and are more consistent. Have fun with the tanks. You will find the proseal is very friendly - it follows you into the house. Weeks later you will find your own fingerprints in all sorts of unlikely spots. David Francis, VH-ZEE. Tanks thankfully finished and tested. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies. I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that? Thanks, Dick Tasker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question
Date: Jan 29, 2003
> You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will > definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need to > allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages the > skin. The countersunk holes along the baffle-skin joint don't really need to be larger/deeper than the rivet head. The way that joint gets sealed, you're supposed to lay a bead of sealant just in FRONT of the rivet holes...as the baffle gets pushed into place it smushes the bead into the tank. A bit of sealant can get between the baffle and skin, but it's not really supposed to be too thick in there. The point I'm making is that if you've got sealant seeping out through the baffle-skin rivet holes, you probably used too much sealant or applied it more aft than you need to. Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply function to pinch the baffle and skin together. If you had to quantify "how much deeper" those holes should be, how would you describe it dimensionally? Would you just eyeball it? How much is too much? I honestly think those holes are best countersunk at the standard depth...so the rivets sit flush normally. Just my 2 cents, and take it with a grain of salt because I still don't have fuel in my tanks! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen(at)mts.net>
Subject: Re: Tank dimple Question
Date: Jan 29, 2003
Just finished the tanks last week for our 7a using regular dies from Cleveland. The RAA inspector who did the inspection on the wings and tanks just yesterday commented on our great riveting job. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question > > I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of > tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies. > > I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to > compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular > dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional > amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that? > > Thanks, > > Dick Tasker > > --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED tank dimple dies
Date: Jan 31, 2003
John, See cleavelandtool.com part # is DIE 4263T at US$34.00 per set. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au Just where does one acquire these little known tank dimple dies? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Quiet Drills
Date: Feb 03, 2003
I have seen posting from builders about there mega compressors and their air drills. Everyone knows that if your really are going to be an airplane builder you must use air drills. Just about every major aircraft company uses air drills, so they must be the right choice. Well here is some real food for thought if you haven't made the plunge yet. I image most builders build there RV's in their garage. Most of these garages maybe attached to their homes and many are in a neighborhoods. I used electric drills on my RV-4 and I thought I would graduate up to the big leagues with an air drill on my RV-7 project. I have been eyeing that big 60 gallon upright 220 Volt Husky compressor at Home Depot for years. My time had come, I was going to load that baby in the back of my pickup and join the few, the proud the, "real" builders. Then I saw it, on sale, price reduced, a CH air drill at Home Depot. I thought to my self, I can buy it an see if it has a good "teasing" throttle on it. This is important because without slow speed control of the drill, it will very hard to use. So I bought it and took it home and hooked it up to my 20 gal. 110 volt compressor I have had for 20 years. I wanted to see how loud the drill was and how many holes I could drill until the compressor would startup. I got about 5 holes drilled and the compressor chimed in. I had the pressure set to 65-70 psi. Not only was the whine of the air drill motor and the compressor cranking in to stay up with every 5 holes annoying to my ears, but the spitting of the light oil from the air drill onto my hands and onto the parts I was drilling made matters intolerable. Seeing that I could barely tolerate the noise in the shop, my neighbors would have to endure some of the collateral noise coming from my shop. Considering there are over 10,000 rivets in an RV, my compressor would mostly be running continuously when I would be drilling and a few pints of oil (exaggerated) would be misting on my parts. If I bought the 60 gallon compressor it wouldn't run as much, but still quiet a bit. After considering the noise (to me and my neighbors-which might just be your wife in the room next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of the Mega compressor, I decided the electric drill worked before and it will work again. I researched what was available on the market and was disappointed by the weight of many of the electric drills out there. If you buy the cheep electric drills, they won't last through the project. I settled on a Makita 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for $32.00 delivered (Tool King). Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms to drill aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of material. In fact, I find that I run my drill rather slowly most of the time. When I microstop machine countersink is when I run my drill at full bore.

August 26, 2002 - February 04, 2003

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