RV7-Archive.digest.vol-ad

February 04, 2003 - September 26, 2003



      Food for thought.
      
      Paul
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Quiet Drills
Date: Feb 04, 2003
Paul, I do not wish to disagree with your very well reasoned arguments. However my experience has been different. Rule # 1 is "you get what you pay for". A good quality compressor of at least 17cfm will be quiet and will operate intermittently except only for a die grinder. Makita and Bosch electric drills, plus some other brands are good quality drills. However they are electric and there is a real issue of swarf buildup over time maybe leading to a zap. This is aside from the weight and size over an air drill. I have a Shimano air drill that does 5,000rpm cost US$150, is fairly quiet, has a teasing trigger and has never ever dripped oil. Its beautiful to use, compared to my other air drill, a cheapie US$60, 1,700rpm deal that is pretty rough. My air nibbler does deposit oil, which lubricates and cools the cutting bit. I need the compressor anyway to drive the rivet gun, so I got a good compressor. So having used lots of electric tools in wood work for many years I am gradually converting to air tools. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au After considering the noise (to me and my neighbors-which might just be your wife in the room next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of the Mega compressor, I decided the electric drill worked before and it will work again. I researched what was available on the market and was disappointed by the weight of many of the electric drills out there. If you buy the cheep electric drills, they won't last through the project. I settled on a Makita 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for $32.00 delivered (Tool King). Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms to drill aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of material. In fact, I find that I run my drill rather slowly most of the time. When I microstop machine countersink is when I run my drill at full bore. Food for thought. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills
Paul I use battery drills a majority of the time. I keep two, one makitta and one bosch. They are alot faster changing out the bits. I do have a compressor though and use the air drill on much repetative work. You just about gotta have one for the pneunatic squeezeer. I wouldn't start a project without a rivet squeezer. Your elbows, arms and shoulders are worth more than an expensive air tool. more food for thought cary -7 finish items --- "Francis, David CMDR" wrote: > CMDR" > > Paul, > I do not wish to disagree with your very well > reasoned arguments. However my > experience has been different. > > Rule # 1 is "you get what you pay for". A good > quality compressor of at > least 17cfm will be quiet and will operate > intermittently except only for a > die grinder. > > Makita and Bosch electric drills, plus some other > brands are good quality > drills. However they are electric and there is a > real issue of swarf buildup > over time maybe leading to a zap. This is aside from > the weight and size > over an air drill. > > I have a Shimano air drill that does 5,000rpm cost > US$150, is fairly quiet, > has a teasing trigger and has never ever dripped > oil. Its beautiful to use, > compared to my other air drill, a cheapie US$60, > 1,700rpm deal that is > pretty rough. My air nibbler does deposit oil, which > lubricates and cools > the cutting bit. > > I need the compressor anyway to drive the rivet gun, > so I got a good > compressor. So having used lots of electric tools > in wood work for many > years I am gradually converting to air tools. > > Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE > > > Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au > > > > > After considering the noise (to me > and my neighbors-which > might just be your wife in the room next to the > garage), the oily mess, the > cost of the Mega compressor, I decided the electric > drill worked before and > it will work again. I researched what was available > on the market and was > disappointed by the weight of many of the electric > drills out there. If you > buy the cheep electric drills, they won't last > through the project. I > settled on a Makita 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a > low noise rating and is > 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other "quality" drill > on the market. I bought > it for $32.00 delivered (Tool King). > > Van talks about cutting speeds of > 2000-3000 rpms to drill > aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are > pre-punched, you are not > drilling out a lot of material. In fact, I find > that I run my drill rather > slowly most of the time. When I microstop machine > countersink is when I run > my drill at full bore. > > Food for thought. > > Paul > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 2/3/03 9:18 PM, Merems at merems(at)cox.net wrote: > > I have seen posting from builders about there mega compressors and their air > drills. Everyone knows that if your really are going to be an airplane > builder you must use air drills. Just about every major aircraft company uses > air drills, so they must be the right choice. > > Well here is some real food for thought if you haven't made the plunge yet. I > image most builders build there RV's in their garage. Most of these garages > maybe attached to their homes and many are in a neighborhoods. I used > electric drills on my RV-4 and I thought I would graduate up to the big > leagues with an air drill on my RV-7 project. I have been eyeing that big 60 > gallon upright 220 Volt Husky compressor at Home Depot for years. My time had > come, I was going to load that baby in the back of my pickup and join the few, > the proud the, "real" builders. Then I saw it, on sale, price reduced, a CH > air drill at Home Depot. I thought to my self, I can buy it an see if it has > a good "teasing" throttle on it. This is important because without slow speed > control of the drill, it will very hard to use. So I bought it and took it > home and hooked it up to my 20 gal. 110 volt compressor I have had for 20 > years. I wanted to see how loud the drill was and how many holes I co! > uld drill until the compressor would startup. I got about 5 holes drilled and > the compressor chimed in. I had the pressure set to 65-70 psi. Not only was > the whine of the air drill motor and the compressor cranking in to stay up > with every 5 holes annoying to my ears, but the spitting of the light oil from > the air drill onto my hands and onto the parts I was drilling made matters > intolerable. Seeing that I could barely tolerate the noise in the shop, my > neighbors would have to endure some of the collateral noise coming from my > shop. Considering there are over 10,000 rivets in an RV, my compressor would > mostly be running continuously when I would be drilling and a few pints of oil > (exaggerated) would be misting on my parts. If I bought the 60 gallon > compressor it wouldn't run as much, but still quiet a bit. > > After considering the noise (to me and my neighbors-which might just be your > wife in the room next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of the Mega > compressor, I decided the electric drill worked before and it will work again. > I researched what was available on the market and was disappointed by the > weight of many of the electric drills out there. If you buy the cheep > electric drills, they won't last through the project. I settled on a Makita > 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter > then any other "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for $32.00 delivered > (Tool King). > > Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms to drill aluminum. Since > most of the new RV kits are pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of > material. In fact, I find that I run my drill rather slowly most of the time. > When I microstop machine countersink is when I run my drill at full bore. > > Food for thought. > > Paul > > > > Hi I've been using 2 cordless drills 110V drills and a 90 degree air drill. The air drill I used only a few times on this project. Each drill motor has a drill bit or deburing bit in them. You don't have to keep changing bits. I've had these drill motors for years. One drilling tool that I have is a flexible extension--very useful. You would use it more than the right angle drill About done with the fuselage 7A. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Paul, You have overlooked a very major point. Everyone except you is using the air drill not only because they are light and small and last forever and if oiled appropriately ( 2 or three drops every building session) don't spit any oil and are fairly quite if you are using a quality drill with a good silencer, but because of airworthiness concerns. It is on page one of the construction manual in bold type, Do not use electric hand tools on this aircraft, structural damage will be the result of doing so! Induction motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum components in a very damaging electromagnetic inductive field surrounding the motor. This electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight critical components to fatigue failures. This is a very proven and thoroughly documented cause of structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. Please, please do not make this mistake as there will surely be grave consequences for you and your passengers and horrific insurance problems for the rest of us. If you do decide to use electric hand tools I would recommend fully disclosing this to your insurance company prior to beginning construction of the horizontal stabilizer. Failure to do so could result in denial of an otherwise justified claim. On a side note, If it is a 7A you are building please be forewarned that the induced form drag from the nose wheel creates forward pitching tendency that can only be overcome by additional elevator deflection thereby setting up an oscillation that can quickly get out of control and further compound the fatigue problems initiated with the electric drill motor. The only practical salvation from these problems is to build a -7 model and utilize a sliding canopy so that during the inevitable crash and rollover you are protected by the superior structural integrity of the sliding canopy. Just food for thought from a totally ambiguous builder. Ross Schlotthauer RV-7 Fuse --- Merems wrote: > > > I have seen posting from builders about there mega > compressors and their air drills. Everyone knows > that if your really are going to be an airplane > builder you must use air drills. Just about every > major aircraft company uses air drills, so they must > be the right choice. > > Well here is some real food for thought if you > haven't made the plunge yet. I image most builders > build there RV's in their garage. Most of these > garages maybe attached to their homes and many are > in a neighborhoods. I used electric drills on my > RV-4 and I thought I would graduate up to the big > leagues with an air drill on my RV-7 project. I > have been eyeing that big 60 gallon upright 220 Volt > Husky compressor at Home Depot for years. My time > had come, I was going to load that baby in the back > of my pickup and join the few, the proud the, "real" > builders. Then I saw it, on sale, price reduced, a > CH air drill at Home Depot. I thought to my self, I > can buy it an see if it has a good "teasing" > throttle on it. This is important because without > slow speed control of the drill, it will very hard > to use. So I bought it and took it home and hooked > it up to my 20 gal. 110 volt compressor I have had > for 20 years. I wanted to see how loud the drill > was and how many holes I co! > uld drill until the compressor would startup. I got > about 5 holes drilled and the compressor chimed in. > I had the pressure set to 65-70 psi. Not only was > the whine of the air drill motor and the compressor > cranking in to stay up with every 5 holes annoying > to my ears, but the spitting of the light oil from > the air drill onto my hands and onto the parts I was > drilling made matters intolerable. Seeing that I > could barely tolerate the noise in the shop, my > neighbors would have to endure some of the > collateral noise coming from my shop. Considering > there are over 10,000 rivets in an RV, my compressor > would mostly be running continuously when I would be > drilling and a few pints of oil (exaggerated) would > be misting on my parts. If I bought the 60 gallon > compressor it wouldn't run as much, but still quiet > a bit. > > After considering the noise (to me and my > neighbors-which might just be your wife in the room > next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of the > Mega compressor, I decided the electric drill worked > before and it will work again. I researched what > was available on the market and was disappointed by > the weight of many of the electric drills out there. > If you buy the cheep electric drills, they won't > last through the project. I settled on a Makita > 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating > and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other > "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for > $32.00 delivered (Tool King). > > Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms to > drill aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are > pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of > material. In fact, I find that I run my drill > rather slowly most of the time. When I microstop > machine countersink is when I run my drill at full > bore. > > Food for thought. > > Paul > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
This is very interesting, where can one find more information on this? > >Paul, > >You have overlooked a very major point. Everyone >except you is using the air drill not only because >they are light and small and last forever and if oiled >appropriately ( 2 or three drops every building >session) don't spit any oil and are fairly quite if >you are using a quality drill with a good silencer, >but because of airworthiness concerns. It is on page >one of the construction manual in bold type, Do not >use electric hand tools on this aircraft, structural >damage will be the result of doing so! Induction >motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum >components in a very damaging electromagnetic >inductive field surrounding the motor. This >electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the >structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight >critical components to fatigue failures. This is a >very proven and thoroughly documented cause of >structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. > >Please, please do not make this mistake as there will >surely be grave consequences for you and your >passengers and horrific insurance problems for the >rest of us. If you do decide to use electric hand >tools I would recommend fully disclosing this to your >insurance company prior to beginning construction of >the horizontal stabilizer. Failure to do so could >result in denial of an otherwise justified claim. > >On a side note, If it is a 7A you are building please >be forewarned that the induced form drag from the nose >wheel creates forward pitching tendency that can only >be overcome by additional elevator deflection thereby >setting up an oscillation that can quickly get out of >control and further compound the fatigue problems >initiated with the electric drill motor. > >The only practical salvation from these problems is to >build a -7 model and utilize a sliding canopy so that >during the inevitable crash and rollover you are >protected by the superior structural integrity of the >sliding canopy. > >Just food for thought from a totally ambiguous >builder. > >Ross Schlotthauer >RV-7 Fuse > > >--- Merems wrote: >> >> >> I have seen posting from builders about there mega >> compressors and their air drills. Everyone knows >> that if your really are going to be an airplane >> builder you must use air drills. Just about every >> major aircraft company uses air drills, so they must >> be the right choice. >> >> Well here is some real food for thought if you >> haven't made the plunge yet. I image most builders >> build there RV's in their garage. Most of these >> garages maybe attached to their homes and many are >> in a neighborhoods. I used electric drills on my >> RV-4 and I thought I would graduate up to the big >> leagues with an air drill on my RV-7 project. I >> have been eyeing that big 60 gallon upright 220 Volt >> Husky compressor at Home Depot for years. My time >> had come, I was going to load that baby in the back >> of my pickup and join the few, the proud the, "real" >> builders. Then I saw it, on sale, price reduced, a >> CH air drill at Home Depot. I thought to my self, I >> can buy it an see if it has a good "teasing" >> throttle on it. This is important because without >> slow speed control of the drill, it will very hard >> to use. So I bought it and took it home and hooked >> it up to my 20 gal. 110 volt compressor I have had >> for 20 years. I wanted to see how loud the drill >> was and how many holes I co! >> uld drill until the compressor would startup. I got >> about 5 holes drilled and the compressor chimed in. >> I had the pressure set to 65-70 psi. Not only was >> the whine of the air drill motor and the compressor >> cranking in to stay up with every 5 holes annoying >> to my ears, but the spitting of the light oil from >> the air drill onto my hands and onto the parts I was >> drilling made matters intolerable. Seeing that I >> could barely tolerate the noise in the shop, my >> neighbors would have to endure some of the >> collateral noise coming from my shop. Considering >> there are over 10,000 rivets in an RV, my compressor >> would mostly be running continuously when I would be >> drilling and a few pints of oil (exaggerated) would >> be misting on my parts. If I bought the 60 gallon >> compressor it wouldn't run as much, but still quiet >> a bit. >> >> After considering the noise (to me and my >> neighbors-which might just be your wife in the room >> next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of the >> Mega compressor, I decided the electric drill worked >> before and it will work again. I researched what >> was available on the market and was disappointed by >> the weight of many of the electric drills out there. >> If you buy the cheep electric drills, they won't >> last through the project. I settled on a Makita >> 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating >> and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other >> "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for >> $32.00 delivered (Tool King). >> >> Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms to >> drill aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are >> pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of >> material. In fact, I find that I run my drill >> rather slowly most of the time. When I microstop >> machine countersink is when I run my drill at full >> bore. >> >> Food for thought. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> Contributions >> any other >> Forums. >> >> latest messages. >> List members. >> >> http://www.matronics.com/subscription >> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm >> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list >> http://www.matronics.com/archives >> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >> >> >> >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Date: Feb 04, 2003
Scott, you could try http://www.urbanlegends.com. John Adams N577RV -----Original Message----- From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] Subject: Re: RV7-List: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING This is very interesting, where can one find more information on this? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Ross Schlotthauer wrote: > > Induction > motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum > components in a very damaging electromagnetic > inductive field surrounding the motor. This > electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the > structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight > critical components to fatigue failures. This is a > very proven and thoroughly documented cause of > structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. Wow. I'm not a materials specialist by any means, but I *am* a mech eng., and this is the first i've heard about an EMF from a drill being able to alter the microstructure of aluminum. I may be completely wrong, and this is just one of those things that doesn't get published anywhere prominent. But without any references to verify this claim, i'd have to say it sounds like a load of hogwash. Would you care to provide some references that I could check? Thanks, -RB4 RV-7 Empennage (and quite happily finish drilling all these pre-punched holes with an 1800 rpm DeWalt cordless *electric* drill). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Shultz" <ttshultz(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Date: Feb 04, 2003
Huh? Is this a joke? > On a side note, If it is a 7A you are building please > be forewarned that the induced form drag from the nose > wheel creates forward pitching tendency that can only > be overcome by additional elevator deflection thereby > setting up an oscillation that can quickly get out of > control and further compound the fatigue problems > initiated with the electric drill motor. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Thaaaats what I thought. > >Scott, you could try http://www.urbanlegends.com. >John Adams >N577RV > >-----Original Message----- >From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING > > >This is very interesting, where can one find more information on this? > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Willke, Theodore L" <theodore.l.willke(at)intel.com>
Subject: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Date: Feb 04, 2003
Ross, The safety issue you raise regarding electric hand tools and metal aircraft construction sounds pretty amazing. I'm not saying that your claim is overstated (yet) but you should provide credible references for strong claims such as this. Maybe you're referring to anodization or induction annealing? I can assure you that the motor of your handheld drill cannot generate sufficient EM field strength (or stray currents) to do either of these. At any rate, I'm confident that Paul, most certainly I, would appreciate some reference publication pointers. By the way, I don't know what version of the manual you have but my RV-7 Construction Manual doesn't seem to have this statement. In fact, my manual goes into the trade-offs between electric and air drills quite extensively (Sec 3r1 11/12/01, 3-1, Sec 5r4 10/24/02), primarily discussing relative performance and cost issues. Thanks, Ted Willke RV-7, Emp -----Original Message----- From: Ross Schlotthauer [mailto:rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com] Subject: Re: RV7-List: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING Paul, You have overlooked a very major point. Everyone except you is using the air drill not only because they are light and small and last forever and if oiled appropriately ( 2 or three drops every building session) don't spit any oil and are fairly quite if you are using a quality drill with a good silencer, but because of airworthiness concerns. It is on page one of the construction manual in bold type, Do not use electric hand tools on this aircraft, structural damage will be the result of doing so! Induction motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum components in a very damaging electromagnetic inductive field surrounding the motor. This electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight critical components to fatigue failures. This is a very proven and thoroughly documented cause of structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. Please, please do not make this mistake as there will surely be grave consequences for you and your passengers and horrific insurance problems for the rest of us. If you do decide to use electric hand tools I would recommend fully disclosing this to your insurance company prior to beginning construction of the horizontal stabilizer. Failure to do so could result in denial of an otherwise justified claim. On a side note, If it is a 7A you are building please be forewarned that the induced form drag from the nose wheel creates forward pitching tendency that can only be overcome by additional elevator deflection thereby setting up an oscillation that can quickly get out of control and further compound the fatigue problems initiated with the electric drill motor. The only practical salvation from these problems is to build a -7 model and utilize a sliding canopy so that during the inevitable crash and rollover you are protected by the superior structural integrity of the sliding canopy. Just food for thought from a totally ambiguous builder. Ross Schlotthauer RV-7 Fuse --- Merems wrote: > > > I have seen posting from builders about there mega > compressors and their air drills. Everyone knows > that if your really are going to be an airplane > builder you must use air drills. Just about every > major aircraft company uses air drills, so they must > be the right choice. > > Well here is some real food for thought if you > haven't made the plunge yet. I image most builders > build there RV's in their garage. Most of these > garages maybe attached to their homes and many are > in a neighborhoods. I used electric drills on my > RV-4 and I thought I would graduate up to the big > leagues with an air drill on my RV-7 project. I > have been eyeing that big 60 gallon upright 220 Volt > Husky compressor at Home Depot for years. My time > had come, I was going to load that baby in the back > of my pickup and join the few, the proud the, "real" > builders. Then I saw it, on sale, price reduced, a > CH air drill at Home Depot. I thought to my self, I > can buy it an see if it has a good "teasing" > throttle on it. This is important because without > slow speed control of the drill, it will very hard > to use. So I bought it and took it home and hooked > it up to my 20 gal. 110 volt compressor I have had > for 20 years. I wanted to see how loud the drill > was and how many holes I co! > uld drill until the compressor would startup. I got > about 5 holes drilled and the compressor chimed in. > I had the pressure set to 65-70 psi. Not only was > the whine of the air drill motor and the compressor > cranking in to stay up with every 5 holes annoying > to my ears, but the spitting of the light oil from > the air drill onto my hands and onto the parts I was > drilling made matters intolerable. Seeing that I > could barely tolerate the noise in the shop, my > neighbors would have to endure some of the > collateral noise coming from my shop. Considering > there are over 10,000 rivets in an RV, my compressor > would mostly be running continuously when I would be > drilling and a few pints of oil (exaggerated) would > be misting on my parts. If I bought the 60 gallon > compressor it wouldn't run as much, but still quiet > a bit. > > After considering the noise (to me and my > neighbors-which might just be your wife in the room > next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of the > Mega compressor, I decided the electric drill worked > before and it will work again. I researched what > was available on the market and was disappointed by > the weight of many of the electric drills out there. > If you buy the cheep electric drills, they won't > last through the project. I settled on a Makita > 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating > and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other > "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for > $32.00 delivered (Tool King). > > Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms to > drill aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are > pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of > material. In fact, I find that I run my drill > rather slowly most of the time. When I microstop > machine countersink is when I run my drill at full > bore. > > Food for thought. > > Paul > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Faris" <kf64358(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Electric drills and aluminum airplanes
Date: Feb 04, 2003
Induction > motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum > components in a very damaging electromagnetic > inductive field surrounding the motor. This > electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the > structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight > critical components to fatigue failures. This is a > very proven and thoroughly documented cause of > structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. If this were true you could not have flap motors, landing gear motors, or electrical gyro instruments on an aircraft. It would be interesting to hear how a non-ferrous metal can be influenced by a magnetic field. Kev RV7 finishing wings, fuse arrives in a couple weeks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Yes gentlemen, this is all true and a very serious matter. This has been researched very extensively by Virginia Tech using grant money from NASA. I have a full length copy of this report and would be happy to send a copy to anyone that is interested. Please submit your request on my website along with your credit card payment. The URL is www.imagullablejackass.com. Please indicate your available credit limit on the form. Doesn't anyone even question the aerodynamic ascillations from the nose wheel or the superior structural integrity of the slider? Ross --- "Willke, Theodore L" wrote: > > > Ross, > > The safety issue you raise regarding electric hand > tools and metal aircraft > construction sounds pretty amazing. I'm not saying > that your claim is > overstated (yet) but you should provide credible > references for strong > claims such as this. Maybe you're referring to > anodization or induction > annealing? I can assure you that the motor of your > handheld drill cannot > generate sufficient EM field strength (or stray > currents) to do either of > these. At any rate, I'm confident that Paul, most > certainly I, would > appreciate some reference publication pointers. > > By the way, I don't know what version of the manual > you have but my RV-7 > Construction Manual doesn't seem to have this > statement. In fact, my manual > goes into the trade-offs between electric and air > drills quite extensively > (Sec 3r1 11/12/01, 3-1, Sec 5r4 10/24/02), primarily > discussing relative > performance and cost issues. > > Thanks, > > Ted Willke > RV-7, Emp > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Schlotthauer > [mailto:rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com] > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING > > > > > Paul, > > You have overlooked a very major point. Everyone > except you is using the air drill not only because > they are light and small and last forever and if > oiled > appropriately ( 2 or three drops every building > session) don't spit any oil and are fairly quite if > you are using a quality drill with a good silencer, > but because of airworthiness concerns. It is on > page > one of the construction manual in bold type, Do not > use electric hand tools on this aircraft, structural > damage will be the result of doing so! Induction > motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum > components in a very damaging electromagnetic > inductive field surrounding the motor. This > electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of > the > structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight > critical components to fatigue failures. This is a > very proven and thoroughly documented cause of > structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. > > Please, please do not make this mistake as there > will > surely be grave consequences for you and your > passengers and horrific insurance problems for the > rest of us. If you do decide to use electric hand > tools I would recommend fully disclosing this to > your > insurance company prior to beginning construction of > the horizontal stabilizer. Failure to do so could > result in denial of an otherwise justified claim. > > On a side note, If it is a 7A you are building > please > be forewarned that the induced form drag from the > nose > wheel creates forward pitching tendency that can > only > be overcome by additional elevator deflection > thereby > setting up an oscillation that can quickly get out > of > control and further compound the fatigue problems > initiated with the electric drill motor. > > The only practical salvation from these problems is > to > build a -7 model and utilize a sliding canopy so > that > during the inevitable crash and rollover you are > protected by the superior structural integrity of > the > sliding canopy. > > Just food for thought from a totally ambiguous > builder. > > Ross Schlotthauer > RV-7 Fuse > > > --- Merems wrote: > > > > > > I have seen posting from builders about there mega > > compressors and their air drills. Everyone knows > > that if your really are going to be an airplane > > builder you must use air drills. Just about every > > major aircraft company uses air drills, so they > must > > be the right choice. > > > > Well here is some real food for thought if you > > haven't made the plunge yet. I image most > builders > > build there RV's in their garage. Most of these > > garages maybe attached to their homes and many are > > in a neighborhoods. I used electric drills on my > > RV-4 and I thought I would graduate up to the big > > leagues with an air drill on my RV-7 project. I > > have been eyeing that big 60 gallon upright 220 > Volt > > Husky compressor at Home Depot for years. My time > > had come, I was going to load that baby in the > back > > of my pickup and join the few, the proud the, > "real" > > builders. Then I saw it, on sale, price reduced, > a > > CH air drill at Home Depot. I thought to my self, > I > > can buy it an see if it has a good "teasing" > > throttle on it. This is important because without > > slow speed control of the drill, it will very hard > > to use. So I bought it and took it home and > hooked > > it up to my 20 gal. 110 volt compressor I have had > > for 20 years. I wanted to see how loud the drill > > was and how many holes I co! > > uld drill until the compressor would startup. I > got > > about 5 holes drilled and the compressor chimed > in. > > I had the pressure set to 65-70 psi. Not only was > > the whine of the air drill motor and the > compressor > > cranking in to stay up with every 5 holes annoying > > to my ears, but the spitting of the light oil from > > the air drill onto my hands and onto the parts I > was > > drilling made matters intolerable. Seeing that I > > could barely tolerate the noise in the shop, my > > neighbors would have to endure some of the > > collateral noise coming from my shop. Considering > > there are over 10,000 rivets in an RV, my > compressor > > would mostly be running continuously when I would > be > > drilling and a few pints of oil (exaggerated) > would > > be misting on my parts. If I bought the 60 gallon > > compressor it wouldn't run as much, but still > quiet > > a bit. > > > > After considering the noise (to me and my > > neighbors-which might just be your wife in the > room > > next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of > the > > Mega compressor, I decided the electric drill > worked > > before and it will work again. I researched what > > was available on the market and was disappointed > by > > the weight of many of the electric drills out > there. > > If you buy the cheep electric drills, they won't > > last through the project. I settled on a Makita > > 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating > > and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other > > "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for > > $32.00 delivered (Tool King). > > > > Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms > to > > drill aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are > > pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of > > material. In fact, I find that I run my drill > > rather slowly most of the time. When I microstop > > machine countersink is when I run my drill at full > === message truncated === ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Ross Schlotthauer wrote: > > The URL is > www.imagullablejackass.com. Please indicate your > available credit limit on the form. I've got as good a sense of humour as the next guy, but at the very least a smiley may have been in order at the end of your message... Calling the people (myself included) who "fell" for your little charade jackasses is a bit much. > Doesn't anyone even question the aerodynamic > ascillations from the nose wheel or the superior > structural integrity of the slider? Of course not. Those are the reasons i'm building a tailwheel slider myself. You mean they're not real? 8-) -RB4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Fellas, No hard feelings I hope. Just a little too much time on my hands today I guess. I owe each of you a drink at Osh. Ross --- Rob Prior wrote: > > > Ross Schlotthauer wrote: > > > > > The URL is > > www.imagullablejackass.com. Please indicate your > > available credit limit on the form. > > I've got as good a sense of humour as the next guy, > but at the very > least a smiley may have been in order at the end of > your message... > Calling the people (myself included) who "fell" for > your little charade > jackasses is a bit much. > > > Doesn't anyone even question the aerodynamic > > ascillations from the nose wheel or the superior > > structural integrity of the slider? > > Of course not. Those are the reasons i'm building a > tailwheel slider > myself. You mean they're not real? > > 8-) > > -RB4 > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Quiet drills-revenge of the air drill
Date: Feb 04, 2003
Gents, My purpose for writing about air drill vs electric drills was to help others out who maybe deciding on which path to take. The responses to this email have been very interesting. As I mentioned in the email, all aerospace companies us air drills so that must be the best, right? Not always. Why do they use them. I have heard several possibilities. Many of them make sense. But lets put our thinking caps on and look back when they first started building metal airplanes. I don't know the exact date, but maybe 1915 or so. Back then most powered shop tools were driven by overhead belts and a central motor sources. The electric hand drill wasn't even invented back then. "In the early 1900's the electric drill weighed upwards of 50 pounds, required two people to operate it and a third to control the power source. But in 1917, on a kitchen table, S. Duncan Black and Alonzo B. Decker, Sr. conceived the first portable drill. " The only way to get a hand power tool in someone's hands on the assembly line was to use air. It was easy to plumb through the shop, and was safe. You could get a lot of power out of a very small and lightweight package, easy to maintain and you could easily control the speed. That's how it all started. And if you haven't figured it out, metal aircraft production hasn't changed very much over the last 80 or so years. This maybe why they still use them. Electric drills have come along way since the 1960's. I remember my father's Porter-Cable. All metal construction single speed, weighed 4 to 5 pounds. With in the use of plastics, lightweight alloys and variable speed control, electric drills can be just as good as their air powered counterparts. For those who are interested in keeping the noise levels down, not needing a "mega" compressor, look into electric (corded) drills. Makita makes several, but I chose the #6410 for the following reasons, 2.6# (lightest weight of all professional drills from all the brands), 2200 rpm, and variable speed. I haven't been disappointed yet. I burned up two 2500 rpm B&D (non-professional series) drills building my RV-4. Based on my experiences with other Makita products, I believe the Makita will make it through my RV-7. I hope this helps others. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2003
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet drills-revenge of the air drill
Let me add two more practical reasons why we use air operated drills. 1. Although all parts will eventually be deburred, the parts that come in the kit can start out very sharp. Dragging a 110V cord around sharp aluminum edges can easily lead to a sliced wire and a nice shower of sparks (not to mention the possibility of shock). A cut air hose does not pose any danger. I know most cords have tough rubber sheathing, but builders will try to use that old extension cord even though it may be frayed. Then ZAP! 2. Second, drilling creates a lot of metal shavings, some large, some very small. Drilling down or horizontally will probably not be a problem. There will come a time when drilling UP is necessary. Since most drills have an integral fan for cooling, the small metal shavings can easily be sucked into the air vents and end up in the drill, eventually shorting it out (possibly with sparks). Maybe this just means you'll be buying a new drill, but this will never happen with an air drill. For what it's worth. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: Quiet drills-revenge of the air drill > > Gents, > > My purpose for writing about air drill vs electric drills was to help others out who maybe deciding on which path to take. The responses to this email have been very interesting. As I mentioned in the email, all aerospace companies us air drills so that must be the best, right? Not always. Why do they use them. I have heard several possibilities. Many of them make sense. But lets put our thinking caps on and look back when they first started building metal airplanes. I don't know the exact date, but maybe 1915 or so. Back then most powered shop tools were driven by overhead belts and a central motor sources. The electric hand drill wasn't even invented back then. > > "In the early 1900's the electric drill weighed upwards of 50 pounds, required two people to operate it and a third to control the power source. But in 1917, on a kitchen table, S. Duncan Black and Alonzo B. Decker, Sr. conceived the first portable drill. " > > The only way to get a hand power tool in someone's hands on the assembly line was to use air. It was easy to plumb through the shop, and was safe. You could get a lot of power out of a very small and lightweight package, easy to maintain and you could easily control the speed. That's how it all started. And if you haven't figured it out, metal aircraft production hasn't changed very much over the last 80 or so years. This maybe why they still use them. Electric drills have come along way since the 1960's. I remember my father's Porter-Cable. All metal construction single speed, weighed 4 to 5 pounds. With in the use of plastics, lightweight alloys and variable speed control, electric drills can be just as good as their air powered counterparts. > > For those who are interested in keeping the noise levels down, not needing a "mega" compressor, look into electric (corded) drills. Makita makes several, but I chose the #6410 for the following reasons, 2.6# (lightest weight of all professional drills from all the brands), 2200 rpm, and variable speed. I haven't been disappointed yet. I burned up two 2500 rpm B&D (non-professional series) drills building my RV-4. Based on my experiences with other Makita products, I believe the Makita will make it through my RV-7. > > I hope this helps others. > > Paul > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Date: Feb 05, 2003
What Ross is saying is quite true and that is why I only make use of reversible drills so that after I have enlarged or countersunk the hole I then reverse the direction for 2 or 3 turns to cancel out this dreaded phenomonen. By the way in the southern hemisphere this whole issue is reversed. Cliff Lotter South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING > > Fellas, > > No hard feelings I hope. Just a little too much time > on my hands today I guess. I owe each of you a drink > at Osh. > > Ross > > > --- Rob Prior wrote: > > > > > > Ross Schlotthauer wrote: > > > > > > > > The URL is > > > www.imagullablejackass.com. Please indicate your > > > available credit limit on the form. > > > > I've got as good a sense of humour as the next guy, > > but at the very > > least a smiley may have been in order at the end of > > your message... > > Calling the people (myself included) who "fell" for > > your little charade > > jackasses is a bit much. > > > > > Doesn't anyone even question the aerodynamic > > > ascillations from the nose wheel or the superior > > > structural integrity of the slider? > > > > Of course not. Those are the reasons i'm building a > > tailwheel slider > > myself. You mean they're not real? > > > > 8-) > > > > -RB4 > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Date: Feb 05, 2003
Ross, No worries. I picked up a pair of surplus Martin Baker GRU7's ejection seats off an A-6E Intruder at the Boneyard. The seats are preferred over the MK7 because of the canopy breaker bar. This way I don't have to install any pyros in the tip up canopy. Any GRU7 manufactured after December 1974 is rated 0/0, so don't buy anything older then that. You can determine the date of mfg by looking at the placard located on the lower left side of the seat frame, next to the secondary release link. Be advised, installing the GRU7 at a 5 degree side inclination angle will help trajectory separation during eject sequencing over a 3 degree installation. So I will keep building my RV-7A using my Molecular Transforming Nuclear Fusing Electric Drill (MTNFED). Thanks for the heads up. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING > > Paul, > > You have overlooked a very major point. Everyone > except you is using the air drill not only because > they are light and small and last forever and if oiled > appropriately ( 2 or three drops every building > session) don't spit any oil and are fairly quite if > you are using a quality drill with a good silencer, > but because of airworthiness concerns. It is on page > one of the construction manual in bold type, Do not > use electric hand tools on this aircraft, structural > damage will be the result of doing so! Induction > motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum > components in a very damaging electromagnetic > inductive field surrounding the motor. This > electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the > structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight > critical components to fatigue failures. This is a > very proven and thoroughly documented cause of > structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. > > Please, please do not make this mistake as there will > surely be grave consequences for you and your > passengers and horrific insurance problems for the > rest of us. If you do decide to use electric hand > tools I would recommend fully disclosing this to your > insurance company prior to beginning construction of > the horizontal stabilizer. Failure to do so could > result in denial of an otherwise justified claim. > > On a side note, If it is a 7A you are building please > be forewarned that the induced form drag from the nose > wheel creates forward pitching tendency that can only > be overcome by additional elevator deflection thereby > setting up an oscillation that can quickly get out of > control and further compound the fatigue problems > initiated with the electric drill motor. > > The only practical salvation from these problems is to > build a -7 model and utilize a sliding canopy so that > during the inevitable crash and rollover you are > protected by the superior structural integrity of the > sliding canopy. > > Just food for thought from a totally ambiguous > builder. > > Ross Schlotthauer > RV-7 Fuse > > > --- Merems wrote: > > > > > > I have seen posting from builders about there mega > > compressors and their air drills. Everyone knows > > that if your really are going to be an airplane > > builder you must use air drills. Just about every > > major aircraft company uses air drills, so they must > > be the right choice. > > > > Well here is some real food for thought if you > > haven't made the plunge yet. I image most builders > > build there RV's in their garage. Most of these > > garages maybe attached to their homes and many are > > in a neighborhoods. I used electric drills on my > > RV-4 and I thought I would graduate up to the big > > leagues with an air drill on my RV-7 project. I > > have been eyeing that big 60 gallon upright 220 Volt > > Husky compressor at Home Depot for years. My time > > had come, I was going to load that baby in the back > > of my pickup and join the few, the proud the, "real" > > builders. Then I saw it, on sale, price reduced, a > > CH air drill at Home Depot. I thought to my self, I > > can buy it an see if it has a good "teasing" > > throttle on it. This is important because without > > slow speed control of the drill, it will very hard > > to use. So I bought it and took it home and hooked > > it up to my 20 gal. 110 volt compressor I have had > > for 20 years. I wanted to see how loud the drill > > was and how many holes I co! > > uld drill until the compressor would startup. I got > > about 5 holes drilled and the compressor chimed in. > > I had the pressure set to 65-70 psi. Not only was > > the whine of the air drill motor and the compressor > > cranking in to stay up with every 5 holes annoying > > to my ears, but the spitting of the light oil from > > the air drill onto my hands and onto the parts I was > > drilling made matters intolerable. Seeing that I > > could barely tolerate the noise in the shop, my > > neighbors would have to endure some of the > > collateral noise coming from my shop. Considering > > there are over 10,000 rivets in an RV, my compressor > > would mostly be running continuously when I would be > > drilling and a few pints of oil (exaggerated) would > > be misting on my parts. If I bought the 60 gallon > > compressor it wouldn't run as much, but still quiet > > a bit. > > > > After considering the noise (to me and my > > neighbors-which might just be your wife in the room > > next to the garage), the oily mess, the cost of the > > Mega compressor, I decided the electric drill worked > > before and it will work again. I researched what > > was available on the market and was disappointed by > > the weight of many of the electric drills out there. > > If you buy the cheep electric drills, they won't > > last through the project. I settled on a Makita > > 6410 3/8 VSR 2200 RPM. It has a low noise rating > > and is 1/2 lbs or so lighter then any other > > "quality" drill on the market. I bought it for > > $32.00 delivered (Tool King). > > > > Van talks about cutting speeds of 2000-3000 rpms to > > drill aluminum. Since most of the new RV kits are > > pre-punched, you are not drilling out a lot of > > material. In fact, I find that I run my drill > > rather slowly most of the time. When I microstop > > machine countersink is when I run my drill at full > > bore. > > > > Food for thought. > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RE: Compressors
Here's another question, thinking about noisy compressors. My oiled, CH 20 Gal compressor is reasonably quiet, in that if I close the door to the room it's in it reduces to a dull rumble elsewhere in the house, but i'd like to get it quieter yet if possible. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a compressor quieter? I know that the majority of the noise comes from the inlet of the compressor, and mine did come with a little plastic filter that sits there, but it's not really all that effective. Would a muffler of some kind help? Has anyone tried? I'd like to get it down to the level of a washing machine, but i'm not sure if that's realistic or not... -RB4 Britt Crowell wrote: > > Quick little note on compressors. Everyone keeps talking about oilless vs oiled compressors and the noise. Its not the oil that really makes the difference, it is if its direct drive or not. I have an oiled 29 gal harbor freight vertical that is direct drive and it makes just as much noise as my neighbors 20gal oilless. Its was only $200 so it was still a good deal but I wish I just would have gotten the 60gal 240V from home depot now. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 06, 2003
I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes. Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs the hottest? John Adams N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2003
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine gauges
either of the back cylinders, left would be my preferrence or the one with the oil cooler nearby cary -7 --- John Adams wrote: > > > I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT > gauge in my panel. I want > to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one > cylinder with the probes. > Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the > O-360 that always runs > the hottest? > John Adams > N577RV > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Engine gauges
For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine? > >I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want >to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes. >Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs >the hottest? >John Adams >N577RV > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 06, 2003
What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp difference if you have one between cylinders? I suppose you could richen and cool them all down. My Cessna has neither EGT or CHT and it gets an long just fine for the past 28 years. Scott maybe you are right however, in an experimental you could adjust the cooling air flow to get the CHTs close to the same temp. EGT is controlled by mixture however, so I don't know how you would even them up. How do you know all the probes are reading the same also? Maybe Cessna has it right, just keep the engine running smooth and don't worry about it. John Adams -----Original Message----- From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine? > >I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want >to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes. >Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs >the hottest? >John Adams >N577RV > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Engine gauges
I use to road race and the cost of the engine/transmission/rear end was expensive (at least for me) I had temp gagues in them all. If I could see a problem before it got serious it equaled saving alot of time and money. Now were talking aircraft engines even more expensive. I went for the Vision Micro Systems VM 1000 engine monitor, so I can see everything. Your Cessna at 28 with no engine problems? I wish that was the norm. I have heard of all sorts of problems before TBO. There again since this is my first plane I am not an experienced owner so I just fell back on my racing background that says, "you will know what the engine is doing" so I decided to put in the horns bells and whistles I wanted so I dont have to do it later. I can honestly say I only blew the budget by about 5k. > >What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp difference if you >have one between cylinders? I suppose you could richen and cool them all >down. My Cessna has neither EGT or CHT and it gets an long just fine for >the past 28 years. Scott maybe you are right however, in an experimental you >could adjust the cooling air flow to get the CHTs close to the same temp. >EGT is controlled by mixture however, so I don't know how you would even >them up. How do you know all the probes are reading the same also? Maybe >Cessna has it right, just keep the engine running smooth and don't worry >about it. >John Adams > >-----Original Message----- >From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges > > >For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and >cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a >rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from >the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine? > > >> >>I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want >>to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes. >>Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs >>the hottest? >>John Adams >>N577RV >> >> > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 8220 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Quieting Compressors Down
Date: Feb 06, 2003
"I know that the majority of the noise comes from the inlet of the compressor, and mine did come with a little plastic filter that sits there, but it's not really all that effective. Would a muffler of some kind help? Has anyone tried?" When I lived in Montana I made a small box "room" for my compressor out of 3" thick "Celotex" insulating foam and then glued/stapled wal-mart "egg crate" foam (from the bedding section) inside of it. It quieted it down a whole bunch. Put a layer or two of foam around the edge on the bottom to let air into the box. Depending on where you live, it may get too hot inside the "little room" with the compressor running and it may overheat either the compressor or the motor. The idea works great in the winter. Give it a try. Happy Building, Linc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 06, 2003
"For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble." ------------ Yeah, me too. I bought a 3 1/8" Quad EGT and Quad CHT from Westach and bought four each CHT and EGT probes. That way I know for sure. Certified aircraft manufacturers spend hours and hours finding which cylinders are hottest, but as experimenters we have to find out fore ourselves. Later all, Linc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 06, 2003
All, I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new. The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the IK-2000 is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less! You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the VM-1000 too. jim Tampa 6A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine gauges I use to road race and the cost of the engine/transmission/rear end was expensive (at least for me) I had temp gagues in them all. If I could see a problem before it got serious it equaled saving alot of time and money. Now were talking aircraft engines even more expensive. I went for the Vision Micro Systems VM 1000 engine monitor, so I can see everything. Your Cessna at 28 with no engine problems? I wish that was the norm. I have heard of all sorts of problems before TBO. There again since this is my first plane I am not an experienced owner so I just fell back on my racing background that says, "you will know what the engine is doing" so I decided to put in the horns bells and whistles I wanted so I dont have to do it later. I can honestly say I only blew the budget by about 5k. > >What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp difference if you >have one between cylinders? I suppose you could richen and cool them all >down. My Cessna has neither EGT or CHT and it gets an long just fine for >the past 28 years. Scott maybe you are right however, in an experimental you >could adjust the cooling air flow to get the CHTs close to the same temp. >EGT is controlled by mixture however, so I don't know how you would even >them up. How do you know all the probes are reading the same also? Maybe >Cessna has it right, just keep the engine running smooth and don't worry >about it. >John Adams > >-----Original Message----- >From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski(at)qcpi.com] >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges > > >For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and >cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a >rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from >the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine? > > >> >>I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want >>to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes. >>Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs >>the hottest? >>John Adams >>N577RV >> >> > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 8220 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2003
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Compressors
Rob, I found the same thing with my Sears 6HP 30 gal compressor in my shop. Scared the heck out of me every time it turned on. So here is what I did. I built an enclosure around the tank using 1x3 furring strips, luan plywood, some sheet metal plates and Sound Stop (by Celotex). All combined, total cost was probably around $60-70. The "Sound Stop" is a very light weight 4'x8' (1/2" thick) inexpensive material found at Home Depot for around $7 per sheet. It looks like a low density fiberboard and is made to deaden sound. (I started out looking at high performance acoustical foam but quickly found it to be incredibly expensive) I started by putting 2 layers of Sound Stop down on the floor (my basement slab resonates without it). Then I cut three sides for the enclosure 18" x 5' (2) and a 24" x 5' piece (this piece cut in half later) out of the luan. I glued Sound Stop on each of the wall panels. Then each of the panels has a frame of 1x3s attached to the inside. The enclosure is in the corner, so the back walls are the basement walls. I put two layers of Sound Stop on the back walls (use Liquid Nails cement) to reduce the sound bouncing off the concrete. The side walls are attached to each other and the back walls using the 3"x5" metal reinforcement plates ($0.45 each @ Home Depot). The metal plates screw in to 1x3s that I glued (vertical) to the basement walls. You'll note from the attached pictures, I cut the front panel in half so that the top would open (hinged) and I could get access to the compressor. After assembling the sides, I cut a lid to fit the enclosure. The lid is a piece of luan with two layers of Sound Stop glued to the underside. This enclosure works fairly well and reduces the sound to a tolerable level, even when standing next to it. If you want to cut the noise down a little more, use 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for the sides. The only problem tends to be heat build up when the compressor runs for long periods of time. I just open the door and do something else for a while. Wayne Perkasie, PA RV7A wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Prior" <rv7(at)b4.ca> Subject: Re: RV7-List: RE: Compressors > > Here's another question, thinking about noisy compressors. My oiled, CH > 20 Gal compressor is reasonably quiet, in that if I close the door to > the room it's in it reduces to a dull rumble elsewhere in the house, but > i'd like to get it quieter yet if possible. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a compressor quieter? > > I know that the majority of the noise comes from the inlet of the > compressor, and mine did come with a little plastic filter that sits > there, but it's not really all that effective. Would a muffler of some > kind help? Has anyone tried? > > I'd like to get it down to the level of a washing machine, but i'm not > sure if that's realistic or not... > > -RB4 > > Britt Crowell wrote: > > > > Quick little note on compressors. Everyone keeps talking about oilless vs oiled compressors and the noise. Its not the oil that really makes the difference, it is if its direct drive or not. I have an oiled 29 gal harbor freight vertical that is direct drive and it makes just as much noise as my neighbors 20gal oilless. Its was only $200 so it was still a good deal but I wish I just would have gotten the 60gal 240V from home depot now. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8ter(at)AOL.com
Date: Feb 06, 2003
Subject: Re: Engine gauges
What's a IK-2000 and where's a web site for it? In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:40:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, jgnorman(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: > > > All, > I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new. > > The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the > IK-2000 > is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less! > > You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the > VM-1000 too. > > jim > Tampa > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2003
From: "Mike D." <mike1qc(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine gauges
http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/ Mike Divan RV-7A (Building Empennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 06, 2003
Here is the web site for the IK-2000. http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/ If you go to the "photo gallery" section you will see installations in a lot of RV's (including mine!). Van's RV-9A has the IK 2000. jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV8ter(at)AOL.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges What's a IK-2000 and where's a web site for it? In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:40:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, jgnorman(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: > > > All, > I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new. > > The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the > IK-2000 > is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less! > > You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the > VM-1000 too. > > jim > Tampa > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 06, 2003
It would be remiss not to consider the ACS2002. http://www.advanced-control-systems.com )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <RV8ter(at)AOL.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges > > What's a IK-2000 and where's a web site for it? > > In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:40:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jgnorman(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: > > > > > > > All, > > I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new. > > > > The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the > > IK-2000 > > is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less! > > > > You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the > > VM-1000 too. > > > > jim > > Tampa > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2003
Subject: IK-2000
From: Genev E Reed <genevreed(at)juno.com>
Jim: how does the IK-2000 compare to the Grand Rapids Doyle Reed 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: IK-2000
Date: Feb 06, 2003
The IK-2000 is not really in the same league as the Grand Rapids system. The IK-2000 is a bit more expensive, but it shows ALL parameters at ALL times.... and does a lot more also. In my opinion, the Grand Rapids system was pretty cool a while ago, but there are a couple of systems that do a whole lot more. I have a friend who has the Grand Rapids system... All of the readouts are numbers on an LCD screen. You have to look at the numbers and THINK about each number. The IK-2000 (among one or two others I think), have digital readouts of all the numbers, but they also present each of them in a series of colored LEDs. Flying this thing is a dream. I just glance over and make sure everything is in the green. If I haven't leaned out enough, the EGT's are in the green, but the height of the LED bar graphs for the EGTs are lower than all of the other green bar graphs. So its not just that they are all in the green, its that when I'm leaned out correctly, the HEIGHT of the EGT LEDs are the same HEIGHT of the green CHT LEDs. Also, if I've not leaned out enough, the green bar graph for the fuel flow turns yellow. By putting the EGT green bars in the right place, I burn several gallons per hour less gas. The same thing goes for all of the other perameters. Oil Temp, for instance... I can look at the LCD display and see the number (and I do sometimes), but while flying all I have to do is GLANCE and I see that the Oil Temp LED bar graph is green and the height of the bar graph is the same as the other green bar graphs. Bottom line... is usability and ease of use. Just glance at it and you know things are good. Also... this has an altitude hold bar graph, OAT, Airspeed, and Altitude, in addition to every engine and fuel perameter. jim Tampa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Genev E Reed Subject: RV7-List: IK-2000 Jim: how does the IK-2000 compare to the Grand Rapids Doyle Reed 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 07, 2003
Folks, my take on engine monitors is that they are seriously expensive and unless you know you have a problem they are not necessarily worth it. Duringhte flight test stage I propose to wire thermocouples to all cylinders with temporary switching to my multimeter, which has a temp reading feature. If a problem cylinder shows up I will try to fix it if I can with baffling/sealing etc. If that does not cure the problem reliably then an engine monitor becomes a very effective investment. To illustrate, two of my scaly mates have a Cessna 175 Skylark and recently had to replace two cylinders due to overheat damage, at enormous expense. Cessna got the cooling wrong, its undercooled for an Australian summer. There is not practical solution so to help them live with the problem they just installed a engine monitor. During climb at full rich if the hottest cylinder goes near the redline they throw away climb performance, lower the nose to a faster IAS cruise climb to keep the temp down. In cruise they lean according to the hottest EGT, which means overcooling the other cylinders and wasting fuel. That's the cost of Cessnas poor design, but the monitor will reduce engine maintenance costs, and so is a good investment for a cooling problem they cannot fix, only control. David Francis, VH-ZEE Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp difference if you have one between cylinders? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Engine gauges
Personally I dont like "light shows" on car stereo's like the new after market units. Nor on my instrument panel. I did notice the price is 1999.00 add senors 754.00 and your at 2753.00 maybe other cost need to be added I did into see, so it is only about 500 less than the VM 1000 which comes complete for the price listed. This is just at a quick glance I am sure there are other differences. > >Here is the web site for the IK-2000. >http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/ > >If you go to the "photo gallery" section you will see installations in a lot >of RV's (including mine!). > >Van's RV-9A has the IK 2000. > >jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV8ter(at)AOL.com >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges > > >What's a IK-2000 and where's a web site for it? > >In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:40:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, >jgnorman(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: > >> >> >> All, >> I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new. >> >> The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the >> IK-2000 >> is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less! >> >> You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the >> VM-1000 too. >> >> jim >> Tampa >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: Engine gauges
To find the real cost of a engine monitor you need to add up all the instruments that it replaces. In the case of the VM-1000: tach manifold pressure oil temp oil pressure fuel pressure amp's volt's Another BIG benifit Increased panel space. > > > >Folks, my take on engine monitors is that they are seriously expensive and >unless you know you have a problem they are not necessarily worth it. >Duringhte flight test stage I propose to wire thermocouples to all cylinders >with temporary switching to my multimeter, which has a temp reading feature. >If a problem cylinder shows up I will try to fix it if I can with >baffling/sealing etc. If that does not cure the problem reliably then an >engine monitor becomes a very effective investment. > >To illustrate, two of my scaly mates have a Cessna 175 Skylark and recently >had to replace two cylinders due to overheat damage, at enormous expense. >Cessna got the cooling wrong, its undercooled for an Australian summer. >There is not practical solution so to help them live with the problem they >just installed a engine monitor. During climb at full rich if the hottest >cylinder goes near the redline they throw away climb performance, lower the >nose to a faster IAS cruise climb to keep the temp down. In cruise they lean >according to the hottest EGT, which means overcooling the other cylinders >and wasting fuel. > >That's the cost of Cessnas poor design, but the monitor will reduce engine >maintenance costs, and so is a good investment for a cooling problem they >cannot fix, only control. > >David Francis, VH-ZEE > >Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au > > > > > > What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp >difference if you > have one between cylinders? > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Engine gauges
Date: Feb 07, 2003
I purchased the IK-2000 for my RV8A. Ralf is a very good person to deal with I highly recommend him, his products, and his support. Noel and Yoshie Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. "We do builder assistance!" Toll Free: 866-859-0390 info(at)blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike D. Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/ Mike Divan RV-7A (Building Empennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: More on Gauges
Date: Feb 07, 2003
Thanks all for the good input on engine instruments! At the risk of starting another big string of messages on gauges, there is a company in the Seattle area coming out with a really cool solid state AI in a 3 1/8 inch configuration. It includes 10 flight instruments in one. They were showing it at Arlington Airshow last Summer but just announced that they will accept orders March 3rd. http://www.dynondevelopment.com/ John Adams N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
Subject: Re: More on Gauges
Only problem 10 in 1 instrumentation is that you need to have your head down while pushing buttons to get to the instrument you want to see. At least that is what I suspect in a 10 in 1, 3 1/8 display. Recently I have had several last minute, uncomfortable situations where another plane passed with in 600-800 feet away. You could tell by the other planes reactions that he did not see me either. So for me, its heads up and scan, not scrolling through trying to find the right display or anything else. Just my 2 cents. > >Thanks all for the good input on engine instruments! At the risk of >starting another big string of messages on gauges, there is a company in the >Seattle area coming out with a really cool solid state AI in a 3 1/8 inch >configuration. It includes 10 flight instruments in one. They were showing >it at Arlington Airshow last Summer but just announced that they will accept >orders March 3rd. >http://www.dynondevelopment.com/ >John Adams >N577RV > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 8220 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2003
From: "Boyd Seal" <supersonic(at)mail.sisna.com>
I'm thinking of going with a Superior XP360 engine from Mattituck. Has anyone bought, installed or maybe even flown one of these engines? Boyd Seal Flying RV6 with A1A, c/s. building RV8. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2003
From: Jim Brown <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: insurance
I had a talk with my insurance company about this same engine and was told that they would not insure with this engine installed. No reason was given. I do not know if this was an isolated incidence but I suggest you have a talk with your insurer first. Jim Brown Boyd Seal wrote: > > I'm thinking of going with a Superior XP360 engine from Mattituck. > Has anyone bought, installed or maybe even flown one of these > engines? > > Boyd Seal > > Flying RV6 with A1A, c/s. building RV8. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: insurance
Date: Feb 11, 2003
Interesting as EAA just announced that they now would insure Non-aircraft engines like VWs and the like. Go to the web site www.eaa.org for the details. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Brown" <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> Subject: RV7-List: Re: insurance > > I had a talk with my insurance company about this same engine and was told > that they would not insure with this engine installed. No reason was given. > > I do not know if this was an isolated incidence but I suggest you have a > talk with your insurer first. > > Jim Brown > > Boyd Seal wrote: > > > > > I'm thinking of going with a Superior XP360 engine from Mattituck. > > Has anyone bought, installed or maybe even flown one of these > > engines? > > > > Boyd Seal > > > > Flying RV6 with A1A, c/s. building RV8. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2003
From: Jim Brown <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: insurance
Thanks, Cy. I will check out the web site, as I am currently flying the Europa XS with a 914 engine. We have an RV7 kit ordered, and the Superior XP 360 was one of the engines that we are looking into. Jim Brown t Cy Galley wrote: > > Interesting as EAA just announced that they now would insure Non-aircraft > engines like VWs and the like. Go to the web site www.eaa.org for the > details. > > Cy Galley > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Brown" <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: Re: insurance > > > > > I had a talk with my insurance company about this same engine and was told > > that they would not insure with this engine installed. No reason was > given. > > > > I do not know if this was an isolated incidence but I suggest you have a > > talk with your insurer first. > > > > Jim Brown > > > > Boyd Seal wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm thinking of going with a Superior XP360 engine from Mattituck. > > > Has anyone bought, installed or maybe even flown one of these > > > engines? > > > > > > Boyd Seal > > > > > > Flying RV6 with A1A, c/s. building RV8. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Grounding
Date: Feb 12, 2003
Hi all. My RV -7 has landing/nav/strobe lights in the wingtips. My question is does one take a seperate ground wire to the wingtips from the ground bus or do you just ground it to the nearest point in the wing and what AWG do I use for the ground wire? Cliff Lotter South Africa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2003
From: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu>
Subject: Grounding wingtip strobes
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za> Subject: RV7-List: Grounding Hi all. My RV -7 has landing/nav/strobe lights in the wingtips. My question is does one take a seperate ground wire to the wingtips from the ground bus or do you just ground it to the nearest point in the wing and what AWG do I use for the ground wire? Cliff Lotter South Africa I successfuly grounded at the outboard rib with 18g wire. Don Piermattei RV-9A 192DP Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD 5000 E County Rd 92 Carr, CO 80612 970/568-9047 Fax 970/568-7279 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Grounding
Date: Feb 13, 2003
Cliff, The best advice on electrical matters is in an excellent book entitled The Aeroelectric Connection, available from www.aeroelectric.com, additionally its useful to subscribe to the aeroelctric list via Matronics, you get online consulting for nothing. Its great. For devices remote from the cockpit that do not require shilding (nav lights, trim motors,servos,etc) use a local ground. The metal airframe is the return path to the battery. The ground wire should be the same gauge as the power line to the device. For strobes, which require shielded wire, separate rules apply. Check the chapter of grounding in the Connection. For devices in the cockpit and forward of the firewall each should have a ground wire to a single ground point that penetrates both sides of the firewall via a big brass bolt. This is the best way to avoid electrical noise. Regards, David Francis. VH-ZEE -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Lotter [mailto:exodus(at)gds.co.za] Subject: RV7-List: Grounding Hi all. My RV -7 has landing/nav/strobe lights in the wingtips. My question is does one take a seperate ground wire to the wingtips from the ground bus or do you just ground it to the nearest point in the wing and what AWG do I use for the ground wire? Cliff Lotter South Africa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2003
Subject: Re: Grounding
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
on 2/11/03 11:01 PM, Cliff Lotter at exodus(at)gds.co.za wrote: > > Hi all. > My RV -7 has landing/nav/strobe lights in the wingtips. My question is does > one take a seperate ground wire to the wingtips from the ground bus or do you > just ground it to the nearest point in the wing and what AWG do I use for the > ground wire? > Cliff Lotter > South Africa > > > > > > > > Hi Cliff I'm grounding everything to the airframe with the ground buss and running a ground wire as well. This might be a little over kill, but your getting a good ground. In most things like cars trailer etc. that I had trouble with(electrically) it usually ends up to be the ground. Scott Trask IMT USA 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2003
From: "Boyd Seal" <supersonic(at)mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Grounding
---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:01:41 +0200 > >Hi all. >My RV -7 has landing/nav/strobe lights in the wingtips. My question is does one take a seperate ground wire to the wingtips from the ground bus or do you just ground it to the nearest point in the wing and what AWG do I use for the ground wire? >Cliff Lotter >South Africa > > >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === >Personally, I like a ground bus with dedicated ground wires. I have wing tip landing lightt with airframe grounding, and I get a 10 to 15 degree compass error when I turn them on. I plan on running ground wires to the ground bus. I also had some grounding problems with my electronic engine gages which went away when I cleaned up some grounding problems. Boyd Seal Flying RV6 building RV8> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2003
From: "Boyd Seal" <supersonic(at)mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Grounding
---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:11:07 -0600 > >on 2/11/03 11:01 PM, Cliff Lotter at exodus(at)gds.co.za wrote: > >> >> Hi all. >> My RV -7 has landing/nav/strobe lights in the wingtips. My question is does >> one take a seperate ground wire to the wingtips from the ground bus or do you >> just ground it to the nearest point in the wing and what AWG do I use for the >> ground wire? >> Cliff Lotter >> South Africa >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Cliff > I'm grounding everything to the airframe with the ground buss and running a >ground wire as well. This might be a little over kill, but your getting a >good ground. In most things like cars trailer etc. that I had trouble >with(electrically) it usually ends up to be the ground. > Scott Trask IMT USA > 7A > > >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === > >Use the same size wire for the ground as the hot lead.> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
"Rv6-List"
Subject: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
Hi Guys, Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one from scratch. If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6/N664SB 90+hrs RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
Could you install an access cover/plate and hole in the skin to allow access to replace this nutty nutplate? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> ; "Rv6-List" Subject: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one > from scratch. > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
Why can't you just run a tap through there. If the hole is too small drill it out with the proper drill bit. It won't be 'locking' like the others but that is what that nut is on there for and if you dabbed a little loc-tite on it I think it would stay put. Just my $0.02. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> ; "Rv6-List" Subject: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one > from scratch. > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Or run a tap through it? Presumably it's drilled, just not tapped? If you were to run a tap through it slowly, backing all the way out after every 1/2 or 1/4 turn forward, you could keep a shop-vac running right at the hole and may even pick up most of the shavings instead of leaving them inside the elevator... -RB4 tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com wrote: > > Could you install an access cover/plate and hole in the skin to allow access > to replace this nutty nutplate? > >> >>Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... >> >>Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for >>the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates >>has NO threads in it!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 18, 2003
Stein, try running a tap through the nutplate to thread it before dis-assembling the whole deal. Threaded in this fashion the nutplate will not have the self locking feature, but you will have a jam nut on the rod-end, so no problem. The cost of the tap will be less than that of a new elevator. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE -----Original Message----- From: Stein Bruch [mailto:stein(at)steinair.com] Subject: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! Hi Guys, Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one from scratch. If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6/N664SB 90+hrs RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Could you not tap out to the thread size (maybe it just missed that part of the process)? If not, would there be enough material to take a helicoil? I don't know what the FAA would say about a helicoil on something like an elevator hinge though! There's not too much material on a nutplate, so whether you'd have enough to do that could be an issue. Of course, it'd be tough to check that it all worked out since it's on the inside. A bit of a pickle to say the least. Thinking whilst writing too, as long as there is a hole somewhere to get a nutplate in and out (might have to make one with a unibit somewhere discrete), you could drill out the old one, shake it out of the hole (tedious) and guide the new nutplate to the hole using some stiff wire maybe and blind rivet the sucker in there. Hope that help provoke some thoughts. Mark RV-7 QB Fitting out Fuselage Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 >>> tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com 02/17/03 04:54PM >>> Could you install an access cover/plate and hole in the skin to allow access to replace this nutty nutplate? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> ; "Rv6-List" Subject: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one > from scratch. > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
I asked Van's about tapping it and that idea was thrown out by more than one experienced head! As far as cutting a hole in the skin and patching it, that would work, but then there would have to be a re-enforcing plate installed and without access to the inside, making a flush patch over the newly created hole would be difficult. To gain the required structure, the "doubler" would be difficult to install any other way then externally (scab patch), and I won't do that. Thanks and keep 'em comin! Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- Why can't you just run a tap through there. If the hole is too small drill it out with the proper drill bit. It won't be 'locking' like the others but that is what that nut is on there for and if you dabbed a little loc-tite on it I think it would stay put. Just my $0.02. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one > from scratch. > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 18, 2003
Stein, try running a tap through the nutplate to thread it before dis-assembling the whole deal. Threaded in this fashion the nutplate will not have the self locking feature, but you will have a jam nut on the rod-end, so no problem. The cost of the tap will be less than that of a new elevator. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE Hi Guys, Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Elevator HELP!
I mentioned the unibit hole in a previous note... You could do this in and end rib, not the skin, so cosmetically it'd look ok still. Maybe enlarge a tooling hole in the end rib or something. If you felt the need to patch it for strength, you could do so, but I don't think you'd lose that much really by enlarging a hole. Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist 313 203 4702 >>> stein(at)steinair.com 02/17/03 05:28PM >>> I asked Van's about tapping it and that idea was thrown out by more than one experienced head! As far as cutting a hole in the skin and patching it, that would work, but then there would have to be a re-enforcing plate installed and without access to the inside, making a flush patch over the newly created hole would be difficult. To gain the required structure, the "doubler" would be difficult to install any other way then externally (scab patch), and I won't do that. Thanks and keep 'em comin! Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- Why can't you just run a tap through there. If the hole is too small drill it out with the proper drill bit. It won't be 'locking' like the others but that is what that nut is on there for and if you dabbed a little loc-tite on it I think it would stay put. Just my $0.02. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one > from scratch. > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Elevator HELP! - Solution
Date: Feb 17, 2003
Ok Guys, Here's the official "Stein" solution. I'm going to drill out the old one, shake it out the end of the elevator, and "fish" a new one in with a piece of safety wire and use cherries to rivet in place. Probably will be lots of uncouth words in my garage during the process, but I'll get it done! Thanks for the advice, Stein Bruch, Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
What reasons did they give for 'throwing it out'? I would like to know so that I can add the experience to my head. :-) Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! > > I asked Van's about tapping it and that idea was thrown out by more than one > experienced head! > > As far as cutting a hole in the skin and patching it, that would work, but > then there would have to be a re-enforcing plate installed and without > access to the inside, making a flush patch over the newly created hole would > be difficult. To gain the required structure, the "doubler" would be > difficult to install any other way then externally (scab patch), and I won't > do that. > > Thanks and keep 'em comin! > > Cheers, > Stein. > > -----Original Message----- > > Why can't you just run a tap through there. If the hole is too small drill > it out with the proper drill bit. It won't be 'locking' like the others but > that is what that nut is on there for and if you dabbed a little loc-tite on > it I think it would stay put. Just my $0.02. > > Godspeed, > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage > http://www.myrv7.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates > (center > > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another > one > > from scratch. > > > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > > > Cheers, > > Stein Bruch > > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
So run a tap thru it. You can always use Loctite to hold the screw, or it you can reach the barrel from the back, give it a little squeeze. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> ; "Rv6-List" Subject: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one > from scratch. > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
If you don't run the tap clean thru but stop before the threads are fully formed, one would have the locking feature. The metal isn't hardened and on the cowl of the Cessna I learned to fly in, I took a tap thru the nutplates when they became almost impossible to run a screw in or out. Didn't really think about the locking feature at that time. No, we didn't lose screws nor the cowl. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! > > Stein, try running a tap through the nutplate to thread it before > dis-assembling the whole deal. Threaded in this fashion the nutplate will > not have the self locking feature, but you will have a jam nut on the > rod-end, so no problem. The cost of the tap will be less than that of a new > elevator. > > Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE > > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 17, 2003
wow. I thought I had the only platenut with no threads. Fortunately I was able to drill mine out when I couldn't get a bolt in it. I have started checking them all now. No good ideas for you though if you can't get at it other than trying to run a tap into it and see if it works. You don't have much to lose. Curt Hoffman RV-9A wings almost done- working on tail 1968 Mustang 302 convertible Piper Cherokee N5320W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> ; "Rv6-List" Subject: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! > > Hi Guys, > > Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! > > Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard > that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 > tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. > Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of > dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one > from scratch. > > If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! > > Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that > doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6/N664SB 90+hrs > RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2003
From: Towertoy(at)AOL.com
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP! (Dave Toy)
Original Message: Hi Guys, Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one from scratch. If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6/N664SB 90+hrs RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! - Solution Ok Guys, Here's the official "Stein" solution. I'm going to drill out the old one, shake it out the end of the elevator, and "fish" a new one in with a piece of safety wire and use cherries to rivet in place. Probably will be lots of uncouth words in my garage during the process, but I'll get it done! Thanks for the advice, Stein Bruch, Minneapolis >>>>>Reply Hi Stein, I have watched some sheet metal specialists do what you are going to do while working on fighters. Take a length of safety wire and wrap a small ball of the wire (large enough to grab the nut plate but small enough to go though the structure) in the middle of the length. Fish it through the nut plate and then out a hole large enough to get the nut plate out of the elevator before you drill out the attaching rivets. Drill out the rivets. When the nut plate is loose in the elevator pull the wire out of the elevator. Since the ball of wire is in the middle of the length of wire, the wire is now routed correctly to get the new nut plate into the elevator. Cut the ball out of the middle of the wire, thread the new nut plate onto the wire and make a new ball to hold the nut plate on the wire. Pull the nut plate into position. You can then hold it tight against the structure to install new rivets. Have fun, Dave Toy Towertoy(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP!
Date: Feb 18, 2003
I'm with Phil Birkelbach on this one, as I have tapped out nutplates many times before with no ill effects. Most of the time it is to get rid of the self-locking feature, so they don't destroy stainless screws (which they do - the screws are softer) in areas that are opened frequently, like the cowling. It doesn't take much tapping either to do the trick. If you have a nutplate with no threads at all, you could tap it very carefully so that you do not tap it out too large, and then it may still have some self-locking ability. Loctite works great, and I trust a threaded nutplate with a dab of Loctite. Happy Building, Linc > What reasons did they give for 'throwing it out'? I would like to know so > that I can add the experience to my head. :-) > > Godspeed, > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP! (Dave Toy)
Date: Feb 18, 2003
I think I would tap it and then try to get a lock nut on it some how behind the nut plate. Cut a hole perhaps. Also, you could install the bolt with lock tight after you tap it. I'm not an A&P so just my ideas. John Adams -----Original Message----- From: Towertoy(at)AOL.com [mailto:Towertoy(at)AOL.com] Subject: RV7-List: Re: Elevator HELP! (Dave Toy) Original Message: Hi Guys, Looking for any GOOD suggestions. Here's the problem... Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! Please don't tell me I should have checked them - I already heard that...from Van's! Who'd a thunk to check those things. After building 3 tail kits, and 1 flying RV6, I've never seen a nutplate with no threads. Anyway, Van's is still searching for some other answer short of dissasembling the elevator. If that's the case I'll just build another one from scratch. If you have any bright ideas, feel free to let me know! Just my typical luck, if there is one nutplate in every 2 million that doesn't get threaded, I'll end up with it! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6/N664SB 90+hrs RV7/N174SB Trying to finish the tail! From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator HELP! - Solution Ok Guys, Here's the official "Stein" solution. I'm going to drill out the old one, shake it out the end of the elevator, and "fish" a new one in with a piece of safety wire and use cherries to rivet in place. Probably will be lots of uncouth words in my garage during the process, but I'll get it done! Thanks for the advice, Stein Bruch, Minneapolis >>>>>Reply Hi Stein, I have watched some sheet metal specialists do what you are going to do while working on fighters. Take a length of safety wire and wrap a small ball of the wire (large enough to grab the nut plate but small enough to go though the structure) in the middle of the length. Fish it through the nut plate and then out a hole large enough to get the nut plate out of the elevator before you drill out the attaching rivets. Drill out the rivets. When the nut plate is loose in the elevator pull the wire out of the elevator. Since the ball of wire is in the middle of the length of wire, the wire is now routed correctly to get the new nut plate into the elevator. Cut the ball out of the middle of the wire, thread the new nut plate onto the wire and make a new ball to hold the nut plate on the wire. Pull the nut plate into position. You can then hold it tight against the structure to install new rivets. Have fun, Dave Toy Towertoy(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP! (Dave Toy)
Date: Feb 18, 2003
John Adams would like to recall the message, "RV7-List: Re: Elevator HELP! (Dave Toy)". ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Elevator HELP! (Dave Toy)
Forgive me John for using your email as an example, but i'm wondering if someone can enlighten me. I've seen a number of people suggest tapping it and then finding some other way to lock the threads once the rod-end-bearing is installed, either with loctite or a locking nut on the back. Why is this necessary? My understanding of the configuration is, the nutplate holds the nut insert fixed, preventing rotation. The rod-end-bearing, due to the fact that it's going to be used as a hinge, can't rotate either. So why is locking hardware necessary? Just curious... -RB4 rv7 "at" b4.ca RV-7 Empennage John Adams wrote: > > I think I would tap it and then try to get a lock nut on it some how behind > the nut plate. Cut a hole perhaps. Also, you could install the bolt with > lock tight after you tap it. I'm not an A&P so just my ideas. > John Adams > > > Just finished my RV7 tail kit and was installing the rod end bearings for > the right elevator, when to my surprise I found one of the nutplates (center > one on the right elevator) has NO threads in it!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: attitude indicator Gyro For Sale - Vaccum
anyone need a vaccumm attitude indicator Gyro - I purchased an electrical one - then decided to go with electric and since I mounted it - they will not take it back. I paid $715 for it new - would like to sell it - it's on Ebay right now - just type in 2405164734 under the search and it will come up. It's bran new for all practical purposes. I'd really like to sell it. thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2003
From: Paul Parashak <pavel_gaijin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: SportAir RV workshop
I am a future 7A builder at the preview plans stage, as I like to say. I am going to the Atlanta March RV workshop, and I would like to ask some questions of those who have attended these in the past. What questions do you wish you asked at the time? What skills do you wish you learned there that weren't taught? How many instructors per student were there? Regards, Paul Parashak http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SportAir RV workshop
Date: Mar 07, 2003
Paul, I have not attended a Sportair workshop, but did a weekend course with the local Australian teacher accredited to Vans. We learned the basics, but not enough to be self-sustaining. In the months following the school I found that the key to success is to learn judgement about how to deal with mistakes. The technical counsellors will leave you alone when they establish confidence that you can sensibly assess when to accept a defect (because the damage caused by rectification could present a worse risk than accepting a minor error) and when to scrap it and start again with new parts. Examples: A flange at the intersection of a rib and spar - 3 rivets, one is outside the edge distance, no room to put a fourth in, accept or reject? If you reject it you will be drilling out 3 ribs and scrapping the entire spar. Ten rivets in a line, on a tailplane spar, three, widely spaced, have been drilled out twice, still bad rivets - can I use oops rivets? Same three rivets, now they are all together in a row across a highly loaded junction with a rib - now can I use oops rivets or should I go up to full sized 1/8 rivets and ruin the appearance? Hope this helps, David Francis, VH-ZEE, fuselage kit arrives today!!! What questions do you wish you asked at the time? What skills do you wish you learned there that weren't taught? Regards, Paul Parashak http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Skykingjfg(at)AOL.com
Date: Mar 09, 2003
Subject: Re: SportAir RV workshop
I attended the RV7 workshop in January of 2002 at Oshkosh. I am currently building a 7A and have almost completed the left wing. All in all it was a good class that will teach you the basics of blueprint reading and airframe assembly. They have you build an airfoil that you get to take home with you. It was taught by Ken Scott, who works for Van's. He was the only instructor for about 20 of us. My main concern was with riveting. This truned out to be a no brainer. The riveting is easy and quick to learn. You will find that the prepunched RV7 kit is easy to build and has good plans and instructions. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2003
Subject: Seat cushions
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
What are or did you guys do for seat cushions? Looking in Aero Oregon they have cushion for RV6. Will they fit the 7? Are the worth $250? Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Seat cushions
Date: Mar 13, 2003
Van just offered seat cushions for the RVs, if you are interested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Trask" <sctrask(at)diisd.org> Subject: RV7-List: Seat cushions > > What are or did you guys do for seat cushions? Looking in Aero Oregon they > have cushion for RV6. Will they fit the 7? Are the worth $250? > Scott Trask IMT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrownScottA(at)AOL.com
Date: Mar 14, 2003
Subject: Garmin 250XL
rv6-list(at)matronics.com, rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com Hey guys, I have a garmin 250xl brand new, never been installed for sale. Store price is $2795, I will let it go to the first $2200. Please reply offline. Thanks, Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Seat cushions
Date: Mar 14, 2003
They do have some that fit nicely in the -7. They are primo comfortable too. I don't have mine upholstered yet and I haven't flown the plane. I have done a little garage flying though :-) My wife made me buy the Oregon Aero seats because she really liked them at SnF last year. I think we'll be happy with them. Whether they are worth the 300% cost difference over Van's seats I'll let you know after my first trip to Colorado. :-) Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Trask" <sctrask(at)diisd.org> Subject: RV7-List: Seat cushions > > What are or did you guys do for seat cushions? Looking in Aero Oregon they > have cushion for RV6. Will they fit the 7? Are the worth $250? > Scott Trask IMT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Seat cushions
Date: Mar 14, 2003
I bought these seats upholstered for my 7, they are excellent (but expensive). In my shop they feel very nice, someday I'll be able to tell you how they are in the air. John N577RV -----Original Message----- From: Phil Birkelbach [mailto:phil(at)petrasoft.net] Subject: Re: RV7-List: Seat cushions They do have some that fit nicely in the -7. They are primo comfortable too. I don't have mine upholstered yet and I haven't flown the plane. I have done a little garage flying though :-) My wife made me buy the Oregon Aero seats because she really liked them at SnF last year. I think we'll be happy with them. Whether they are worth the 300% cost difference over Van's seats I'll let you know after my first trip to Colorado. :-) Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Trask" <sctrask(at)diisd.org> Subject: RV7-List: Seat cushions > > What are or did you guys do for seat cushions? Looking in Aero Oregon they > have cushion for RV6. Will they fit the 7? Are the worth $250? > Scott Trask IMT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: Attitude Indicator For Sale
Date: Mar 17, 2003
I bought an vacuum driven Attitude Indicator from a friend who took it out of his Cessna. I no longer plan to install it in my 7 so have it for sale. It is a 1992 Sigma Tek model 5000B-36. It was overhauled 8/14/98, with 80 hours on the hobbs since OH. It was removed for an upgrade. The face is Blue over black. My friend told me it was working when removed. I paid $400 for it and will consider offers near this. Contact me at jadams(at)scoutmedical.com John Adams N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cowl fastener kit sale - at skybolt.com
check out www.skybolt.com -the RV-7 cam-lock cowl kits are on sale - down from 457 to about $317 or so - get them now while they are affordable. I"m told those hinges break alot. do it right the first time. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DANBERGERONHAM(at)AOL.com
Date: Mar 20, 2003
Subject: Rudder Stiffeners
Can someone set me straight before I go nuts. Then maybe you have to be nuts to get into this game to start with. I started on my RV-7A six weeks ago and have gotten both HS sides and the VS to the point of priming and final assembly. Wife put her foot down re priming in the cellar, even with fans going and a good respirator, so I set the parts aside to await warmer wx here in New England, and moved on to the rudder last night. The first item under "Fitting the Stiffeners to the Rudder Skin" on page 6-5 says: "Pre-punched holes in the R-915 rudder stiffeners match corresponding pre-punched holes in the R-901-L and R-901R rudder skins." Maybe I'm just tired after two long work days but I can match only the top line of holes in the R-901 rudder skins to a stiffener, that would be stiffener R-915H. The other seven lines of holes do not match any of the seven remaining R-915 stiffeners. Strangely the first and last holes match perfectly in all cases, but not the holes in between. What am I not seeing here? The answer is probably staring me in the face, and I'm going to feel stupid when this gets sorted out, but right now I'm stumped. I've thought of just turning the stiffeners over and match drilling the undrilled side to the skins. Did Vans maybe send me something that was meant for the original RV-7 rudder? Dan Bergeron Chicopee, MA RV-7A empennage in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Stiffeners
Date: Mar 20, 2003
Sounds like you probably got the wrong stiffener stock. What's the part # on the stiffener stock? Worst case, you can make your own stiffeners pretty easily -- if you have enough spare angle stock around. That way you can save yourself the wait for the replacement and still keep busy... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (canopy) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <DANBERGERONHAM(at)AOL.com> Subject: RV7-List: Rudder Stiffeners > > Can someone set me straight before I go nuts. Then maybe you have to be nuts > to get into this game to start with. > > I started on my RV-7A six weeks ago and have gotten both HS sides and the VS > to the point of priming and final assembly. Wife put her foot down re > priming in the cellar, even with fans going and a good respirator, so I set > the parts aside to await warmer wx here in New England, and moved on to the > rudder last night. The first item under "Fitting the Stiffeners to the > Rudder Skin" on page 6-5 says: "Pre-punched holes in the R-915 rudder > stiffeners match corresponding pre-punched holes in the R-901-L and R-901R > rudder skins." Maybe I'm just tired after two long work days but I can match > only the top line of holes in the R-901 rudder skins to a stiffener, that > would be stiffener R-915H. The other seven lines of holes do not match any > of the seven remaining R-915 stiffeners. Strangely the first and last holes > match perfectly in all cases, but not the holes in between. What am I not > seeing here? The answer is probably staring me in the face, and I'm going to > feel stupid when this gets sorted out, but right now I'm stumped. I've > thought of just turning the stiffeners over and match drilling the undrilled > side to the skins. Did Vans maybe send me something that was meant for the > original RV-7 rudder? > > Dan Bergeron > Chicopee, MA > RV-7A empennage in progress > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Bataller" <gary_bataller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Stiffeners
Date: Mar 20, 2003
Hi Dan, I have also just finished the initial assembly of the HS and VS and am awaiting the warmer Massachusett temps to prime and then rivet. I just started the rudder this evening, and here is the scoop: Before you break the 915 strips in half, measure the hole spacings. You will find that there are 17 hole-pairs. The 10, inner-most hole-pairs measure 1 9/32"; the 7 outer-most hole-pairs measure 1 10/32". If you then measure the rudder skin hole spacings, you will find that they all measure 1 9/32" at the top and then you will see that the 1 10/32" hole spacing start to appear at the rear-most holes as you start down the rudder. Once you see the pattern, it will click. The seemingly odd spacing must be to allow the rivet lines to line up at the ends. Gary Bataller Westborough, MA >From: DANBERGERONHAM(at)AOL.com >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV7-List: Rudder Stiffeners >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:02:20 EST > > >Can someone set me straight before I go nuts. Then maybe you have to be >nuts >to get into this game to start with. > >I started on my RV-7A six weeks ago and have gotten both HS sides and the >VS >to the point of priming and final assembly. Wife put her foot down re >priming in the cellar, even with fans going and a good respirator, so I set >the parts aside to await warmer wx here in New England, and moved on to the >rudder last night. The first item under "Fitting the Stiffeners to the >Rudder Skin" on page 6-5 says: "Pre-punched holes in the R-915 rudder >stiffeners match corresponding pre-punched holes in the R-901-L and R-901R >rudder skins." Maybe I'm just tired after two long work days but I can >match >only the top line of holes in the R-901 rudder skins to a stiffener, that >would be stiffener R-915H. The other seven lines of holes do not match any >of the seven remaining R-915 stiffeners. Strangely the first and last >holes >match perfectly in all cases, but not the holes in between. What am I not >seeing here? The answer is probably staring me in the face, and I'm going >to >feel stupid when this gets sorted out, but right now I'm stumped. I've >thought of just turning the stiffeners over and match drilling the >undrilled >side to the skins. Did Vans maybe send me something that was meant for the >original RV-7 rudder? > >Dan Bergeron >Chicopee, MA >RV-7A empennage in progress > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2003
From: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Stiffeners
Dan, It sounds like you have the second side stiffeners upside down. The bend of the stiffeners faces the top on one skin and the bottom of the rudder on the other skin. Another way to look at it is, the tapered edge of all of the stiffeners always point to the trailing edge of the rudder (regardless of which skin you're looking at. When the skins are riveted together, the stiffeners mesh. Wayne Perkasie, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: <DANBERGERONHAM(at)AOL.com> Subject: RV7-List: Rudder Stiffeners > > Can someone set me straight before I go nuts. Then maybe you have to be nuts > to get into this game to start with. > > I started on my RV-7A six weeks ago and have gotten both HS sides and the VS > to the point of priming and final assembly. Wife put her foot down re > priming in the cellar, even with fans going and a good respirator, so I set > the parts aside to await warmer wx here in New England, and moved on to the > rudder last night. The first item under "Fitting the Stiffeners to the > Rudder Skin" on page 6-5 says: "Pre-punched holes in the R-915 rudder > stiffeners match corresponding pre-punched holes in the R-901-L and R-901R > rudder skins." Maybe I'm just tired after two long work days but I can match > only the top line of holes in the R-901 rudder skins to a stiffener, that > would be stiffener R-915H. The other seven lines of holes do not match any > of the seven remaining R-915 stiffeners. Strangely the first and last holes > match perfectly in all cases, but not the holes in between. What am I not > seeing here? The answer is probably staring me in the face, and I'm going to > feel stupid when this gets sorted out, but right now I'm stumped. I've > thought of just turning the stiffeners over and match drilling the undrilled > side to the skins. Did Vans maybe send me something that was meant for the > original RV-7 rudder? > > Dan Bergeron > Chicopee, MA > RV-7A empennage in progress > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: compass in instrument panel??
is a magnetic compass mounted in the instrument panel a bad idea - I got a good one that claims to be ok for this application. My main concern was that I want NOTHING obstructing my view out front - what have you all heard and what is the best way? thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Camille Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net>
Subject: Re: compass in instrument panel??
Date: Mar 20, 2003
I used to fly a Grumman Yankee with the mag compass on the left side of the panel. I really liked it, especially for instrument training, since I didn't have to look up. ----- Cammie > is a magnetic compass mounted in the instrument panel a bad idea - I got a good one that claims to be ok for this application. My main concern was that I want NOTHING obstructing my view out front - what have you all heard and what is the best way? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: compass in instrument panel??
Date: Mar 20, 2003
Most commercial planes have the compass mounted up away from the other instruments and radios so as to reduce magnetic interference. You idea has merit but hasn't proved very practical. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia" <wings97302(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV7-List: compass in instrument panel?? > > > is a magnetic compass mounted in the instrument panel a bad idea - I got a good one that claims to be ok for this application. My main concern was that I want NOTHING obstructing my view out front - what have you all heard and what is the best way? > > thanks > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwpetrus(at)AOL.com
Date: Mar 21, 2003
Subject: Re: compass in instrument panel??
Mine works just fine in my RV8A Thanks Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 7-Day Matronics List Browse Enhancement...
Dear Listers, Neil Hulin of the Zenith-List at Matronics wrote to me suggesting I add a "total of available messages" column to the 7-Day List Browse Main page, and it seemed like a great idea! I've made the modifications and I think many will find it extremely helpful as well. Have a look at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/ Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin... Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2003
Subject: [ Bob Paulo ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bob Paulo Subject: RV Project For Sale http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Bobpaulo@aol.com.03.23.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Infinity Grips - 2 Right handed or 1 left and 1 right - what's
recommened??? I'm ordering the Infinity grips -now i'm told I should consider a left and right I was going to order two right grips - since i'm right handed and most people are right handed. what do you all recommend? if I sit in the left seat of my RV7A - the throttle is in the center - would it be bad to hold the stick with my right hand and run the throttle with my left??? The infinity stick conforms to your hand -so you order a left or right hand style - it's not just a round tube. thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: fuselage vent penetration point
could someone who has mounted thier wings please let me know where the best spot would be to run the vent line through the fuselage. I couldn't find where in the plans. in the area where it goes the fuselage rivet lines make up a forward facing triangle with the back side being a 90 degree corner - in relation to that corner could someone tell me how far forward from that vertical rivet line and how far UP from the bottom rivet line should the vent line hole be drilled? thanks RV-7A --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: fuselage vent penetration point
Date: Mar 25, 2003
The plans mention that there is a hole there to drill out. I had no such hole. I waited until the wings were on before drilling those out. You want to make sure you keep them pretty low so that the tubing fittings don't interfere with the structure inside the fuselage. I'll try to remember to measure mine when I get home, but if you can I would wait until the wings are on that way you can make sure the little washer doesn't interfere with the wing fairing. If your wings are on then get a straight edge and extend the fuel tank profile to the fuselage and then using one of the doubler washers to locate the hole as far aft and down as you can without interfering with the fairing or the tank bracket attach angle inside the fuse. This all assumes that you are talking about the fuel tank vent line. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia" <wings97302(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV7-List: fuselage vent penetration point > > > could someone who has mounted thier wings please let me know where the best spot would be to run the vent line through the fuselage. I couldn't find where in the plans. in the area where it goes the fuselage rivet lines make up a forward facing triangle with the back side being a 90 degree corner - in relation to that corner could someone tell me how far forward from that vertical rivet line and how far UP from the bottom rivet line should the vent line hole be drilled? > > thanks > > RV-7A > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: engine breakin link
http://www.eci2fly.com/Tech_Ref/BreakInInstructions/bi.htm --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cowl
I got some fasteners from www.skybolt.com - for my engine cowl. - (they are on sale now - get them while they are cheaper). Any reason why as a first step I cannot mate the two cowls together - off the airplane - so I at least start with the two halves mated together properly - this step could be done on the floor away from the airplane and most likely done by only one person. Next, take them apart and work on getting the top cowl mounted perfect along the firewall - then i'm thinking mount the bottom cowl on with the fasteners already mounted in the first step so it hangs from the top -then work on mounting the bottom cowl along the firewall. in mounting the cowl - are there any particular things you learned and wished you had done??? I really like this twist lock kit from skybolt.com. thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Cowl
I keep seeing these great 1/4-turn fasteners for cowlings, but unfortunately keep seeing Phillips or Slotted heads in them. Does anyone make 1/4-turn fasteners with Robertson or Torx heads? I'd prefer to put fasteners that don't strip (phillips) or let my screwdriver slide out (slotted) on my cowling... -RB4 Julia wrote: > > > I got some fasteners from www.skybolt.com - for my engine cowl. - (they are on sale now - get them while they are cheaper). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2003
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Cowl
While you are absolutely correct about screws in general, these fasteners do not take a lot of force to operate - that is their advantage, an easy quarter turn and they latch. So I plan to use phillips head in mine. Dick Tasker, 90573 Rob Prior wrote: > >I keep seeing these great 1/4-turn fasteners for cowlings, but >unfortunately keep seeing Phillips or Slotted heads in them. Does >anyone make 1/4-turn fasteners with Robertson or Torx heads? > >I'd prefer to put fasteners that don't strip (phillips) or let my >screwdriver slide out (slotted) on my cowling... > >-RB4 > >Julia wrote: > > >> >> >>I got some fasteners from www.skybolt.com - for my engine cowl. - (they are on sale now - get them while they are cheaper). >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: oil cooler & cowl clearance
My oil cooler is really close to my engine cowl? how close is too close? I might have a quarter of an inch at most. It's mounted on the left side - I think when the motor torques under power - it would pull this cooler down (ie motor twisting counter clockwise if you sit in the cockpit) - which would be ok (if I have the torque movement correct). If it twisted much the other way I think it would hit the cowl. Do you get equal travel on the engine in both directions? Looks like I could move the cooler down a half inch with no problems. thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cowl Fasteners
Hello Im working to install my engine cowl and I got the Skybolt.com cowl installation kit (on sale now 30% off - and no I don't work for them). I cannot emphasize enough how much I would recommend this kit. I was not looking forward to the cowl at all with this kit it sounds easy. I cut the heck out of my engine baffles to allow my top cowl to fit nicely. I took off my exhaust system. Im going to get the top and bottom cowl to fit together nicely first This I can do on a workbench. Next I will fit the bottom onto the firewall and then the top it sure sounds easy with these fasteners. They certainly are not cheap but I am convinced the finished product will be significantly better. Piano hinge is for pianos - not airplanes. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
if one wanted to be able to deliver a package to someone via an RV - can you open the canopy in flight for this purpose if you are flying slow? If not, I might want to consider a trap door in the floor. Any ideas or thoughts on this would be appreciated? also has anyone thought about how you might videotape from an RV? I was wondering about making a spot on my wing so I might mount a pod - the pod might look like missle on a fighter jet -but it might have a video camera mounted in the nose? The mount might just be two 3/8 inch holes into which you might screw two 3/8 bolts which come off this pod. How might one videotape from an RV - any thoughts I'd love to hear? if it were dry out, perhaps you could just mount the video camera upside down using the tripod mount - it could screw into the wing somewhere? I think that would be really neat - then my grandmother could watch it and see where i've been. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carter Wright" <cartaire(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 26, 2003
what are you planning to drop? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
A package.... Flying low... Dropping from plane... Are you running drugs?!!! ;) Mark Taylor Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> wings97302(at)yahoo.com 03/26/03 03:30PM >>> if one wanted to be able to deliver a package to someone via an RV - can you open the canopy in flight for this purpose if you are flying slow? If not, I might want to consider a trap door in the floor. Any ideas or thoughts on this would be appreciated? also has anyone thought about how you might videotape from an RV? I was wondering about making a spot on my wing so I might mount a pod - the pod might look like missle on a fighter jet -but it might have a video camera mounted in the nose? The mount might just be two 3/8 inch holes into which you might screw two 3/8 bolts which come off this pod. How might one videotape from an RV - any thoughts I'd love to hear? if it were dry out, perhaps you could just mount the video camera upside down using the tripod mount - it could screw into the wing somewhere? I think that would be really neat - then my grandmother could watch it and see where i've been. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 26, 2003
> if one wanted to be able to deliver a package to someone via an RV - can you open the canopy in flight for this purpose if you are flying slow? Three words.... U P S Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 26, 2003
Sounds like a terrorist activity. There is an FAR against dropping objects from an airplane. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carter Wright" <cartaire(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > > what are you planning to drop? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joshua Siler" <joshs(at)ninatek.com>
Subject: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 26, 2003
No there isn't. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley Sounds like a terrorist activity. There is an FAR against dropping objects from an airplane. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carter Wright" <cartaire(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > > what are you planning to drop? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Infinity Grips - 2 Right handed or 1 left and 1 right -
what's recommened???
Date: Mar 26, 2003
> I'm ordering the Infinity grips -now i'm told I should consider a left and right > > I was going to order two right grips - since i'm right handed and most people are right handed. > > what do you all recommend? if I sit in the left seat of my RV7A - the throttle is in the center - would it be bad to hold the stick with my right hand and run the throttle with my left??? > I have the Infinity sticks with one left and one right. I found way back when I did my instructor rating that it was very easy for me to switch from flying with my left hand to flying with my right hand. I therefore set up my RV6A the same way. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta, BC. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: 2 Right handed or 1 left and 1 right - what's recommended???
Date: Mar 26, 2003
Does it really matter ????? I really don't think it will be that hard transitioning to an airplane that requires flying with the control stick in your left hand and throttle in your right hand. I personally have never heard from anyone that felt it was worth the extra time, trouble, and cost to put another throttle on the left of the cabin, just so you can hold the stick with your left hand. Happy Building, Linc - > Not "bad", but it does sound a little awkward. > I plan to have 2 throttles - one in the center and one on the left side, > possibly using quadrants. That way, either pilot can fly with the stick > in his/her right hand. I therefore plan 2 right-handed sticks. (Or if I > get non-handed sticks, the pilot in the left seat can hold the stick in > either hand). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2003
From: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Josh, I tend to agree with your eloquent and thorough statement. Cy, No there isnt. Ross Schlotthauer RV-7 Fuse --- Joshua Siler wrote: > > > No there isn't. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Cy Galley > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > > > > Sounds like a terrorist activity. There is an FAR > against dropping objects > from an airplane. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carter Wright" <cartaire(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & > video mounts? > > > > > > > > > what are you planning to drop? > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://platinum.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2003
From: Brooks Wolfe <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
>No there isn't. 91.15 doesn't prohibit dropping things from an airplane, only so long as it doesn't present a hazard to people or property on the ground. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 26, 2003
So im sure dropping a package over someones house is fully legal.... RIGHT Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Siler" <joshs(at)ninatek.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > No there isn't. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > > > Sounds like a terrorist activity. There is an FAR against dropping objects > from an airplane. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carter Wright" <cartaire(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > > > > > > > what are you planning to drop? > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 26, 2003
What I was thinking of was FAR 91.15 Dropping objects. No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Siler" <joshs(at)ninatek.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > No there isn't. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > > > Sounds like a terrorist activity. There is an FAR against dropping objects > from an airplane. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carter Wright" <cartaire(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > > > > > > > what are you planning to drop? > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
you guys and your dirty thoughts - no not drugs - written materials for prospective clients. This way I can write off some of my flying expenses as business expenses. A package.... Flying low... Dropping from plane... Are you running drugs?!!! ;) Mark Taylor Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> wings97302(at)yahoo.com 03/26/03 03:30PM >>> if one wanted to be able to deliver a package to someone via an RV - can you open the canopy in flight for this purpose if you are flying slow? If not, I might want to consider a trap door in the floor. Any ideas or thoughts on this would be appreciated? also has anyone thought about how you might videotape from an RV? I was wondering about making a spot on my wing so I might mount a pod - the pod might look like missle on a fighter jet -but it might have a video camera mounted in the nose? The mount might just be two 3/8 inch holes into which you might screw two 3/8 bolts which come off this pod. How might one videotape from an RV - any thoughts I'd love to hear? if it were dry out, perhaps you could just mount the video camera upside down using the tripod mount - it could screw into the wing somewhere? I think that would be really neat - then my grandmother could watch it and see where i've been. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: oil cooler
well I mounted my oil cooler on the factory engine baffle kit - just where it is supposed to go according to the directions. It's too high up - I contacted Vans and they said I should have measured first - to check cowl cleareance - there should be at least 3/4 inch between the cowl and the oil cooler - so before you mount the oil cooler - get the baffles in place and toss the cowl up and see what you've got. In my situation it looks like if I just slide the oil cooler down about 1/2 inch it should work ok. You application may be different - so you might just want to check it - that's all i'm suggesting. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 26, 2003
Dropping something like color die over the ocean for " fish spotting" is permissable. I did fish spotting over the summer. Made great money. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia" <wings97302(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > > you guys and your dirty thoughts - no not drugs - written materials for prospective clients. This way I can write off some of my flying expenses as business expenses. > "Mark Taylor" > > A package.... Flying low... Dropping from plane... Are you running > drugs?!!! ;) > > Mark Taylor > > Mark Taylor > CAD Technical Specialist > (248) 829-5322 > > >>> wings97302(at)yahoo.com 03/26/03 03:30PM >>> > > > if one wanted to be able to deliver a package to someone via an RV - > can you open the canopy in flight for this purpose if you are flying > slow? > > If not, I might want to consider a trap door in the floor. Any ideas > or thoughts on this would be appreciated? > > also has anyone thought about how you might videotape from an RV? I > was wondering about making a spot on my wing so I might mount a pod - > the pod might look like missle on a fighter jet -but it might have a > video camera mounted in the nose? The mount might just be two 3/8 inch > holes into which you might screw two 3/8 bolts which come off this pod. > How might one videotape from an RV - any thoughts I'd love to hear? > if it were dry out, perhaps you could just mount the video camera upside > down using the tripod mount - it could screw into the wing somewhere? I > think that would be really neat - then my grandmother could watch it and > see where i've been. > > > --------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 27, 2003
A trip to Iraq perhaps? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carter Wright" <cartaire(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? > > > what are you planning to drop? > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thorne" <j.thorne(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV
Date: Mar 27, 2003
Was just wondering about this myself. Leaves you out of a whole bunch of flour bomb contests at various flyins. Jim Thorne RV-7A Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant(at)sw.rr.com>
Subject: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts?
Date: Mar 27, 2003
My local airport does a 'Pumpkin Plummet' each year where people fly over the airport and try to bomb a target with left-over Halloween pumpkins. Great fun for everyone - including the local FAA guy that is always in attendance. Perfectly legal. Along those lines, I've seriously thought about putting 'hard points' on my RV, as well (so I can participate in the 'Plummet') My idea was to use something like the tie-down brackets that are bolted to the wing spars. I would bolt them to the spar underneath the seats in the center section though. That way your drag is in the center and any wires or cable runs are minimized. Also makes bombing easier because your bomb is coming off the centerline.... Jordan Grant RV-6 finishing Just got my XP360 from Aerosport and its beautiful! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Julia Subject: RV7-List: Dropping things from an RV & video mounts? if one wanted to be able to deliver a package to someone via an RV - can you open the canopy in flight for this purpose if you are flying slow? If not, I might want to consider a trap door in the floor. Any ideas or thoughts on this would be appreciated? also has anyone thought about how you might videotape from an RV? I was wondering about making a spot on my wing so I might mount a pod - the pod might look like missle on a fighter jet -but it might have a video camera mounted in the nose? The mount might just be two 3/8 inch holes into which you might screw two 3/8 bolts which come off this pod. How might one videotape from an RV - any thoughts I'd love to hear? if it were dry out, perhaps you could just mount the video camera upside down using the tripod mount - it could screw into the wing somewhere? I think that would be really neat - then my grandmother could watch it and see where i've been. --------------------------------- direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2003
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV
Julia, If you figure it out let me know. ... my father-in-law wants me to dump his (cremation) ashes over the NM mountains. He has a lot of old friends - maybe there's a black market for this sort of thing :-) Cheers, John Burns, 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Camille Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV
Date: Mar 27, 2003
So you're saying that your plane needs an "ash-hole"? :-) > > Julia, If you figure it out let me know. ... my father-in-law wants me to dump his (cremation) ashes over the NM mountains. > > He has a lot of old friends - maybe there's a black market for this sort of thing :-) > > Cheers, > John Burns, 7A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2003
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV
Yes, I'd say my RV needs an "ash-hole," but only if Jim doesn't report me to the FAA ;-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bellwa77(at)AOL.com
Date: Mar 28, 2003
Subject: Re: Dropping things from an RV
"Ash-hole", Beautiful LOL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics ISP Upgrade TODAY...
Dear Listers, The time has finally arrived for the Internet Service Provider (ISP) upgrade! You'll recall that I was looking into upgrading the existing SDSL connection from 768k to 1.1M. As it turned out, the copper line wouldn't support any speeds greater than the current 768k. In light of that news, I just bit-the-bullet and ordered a full, commercial-grade T1 connection. The T1 connection will provide a full-duplex, high priority, 1.5Mb Internet connection which should be a substantial performance enhancement for all of the List services! Pacbell delivered the T1 Loop last week and it tested out fine. This past weekend I pulled the tail circuit from the demark to the office. This afternoon, Tuesday 4/1/03, the ISP is suppose come and install the new router and bring up routing on a test subnet. Assuming that everything checks out okay with the T1, new router, and routing, I will have them swing the main Matronics subnet off the SDSL and onto the T1. In theory, the swing could be nearly transparent to users, but that's usually not the case... ;-) Please expect a bit of instability in connectivity this afternoon as we work though the transition issues. I will post a follow up message when everything is up and running on the new T1 line. Finally, please know that it is solely your Contributions that make these kinds of List upgrades happen! There is no advertising budget (aka, flashing banner ads and annoying pop up browser windows) to pay these bills; operational support is solely from List members like you during the yearly List Fund Raiser. If you would like to make your Contribution to support the Lists and upgrades like this T1 connectivity enhancement, please see the List Contribution Web Site where you can make your Contribution with a Credit Card, PayPal, or Personal Check. You can even get a free List Archive CDROM with a qualifying List Contribution! The URL is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thanks again to EVERYONE that made a generous Contribution last year and enabled this awesome upgrade to T1 service! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gozewijn Vlasblom" <vlasblom(at)ripnet.com>
Subject: crate
Date: Apr 02, 2003
looking to buy/take over: RV-7 or RV-9 quick build crate. I am in the proces of moving acros the country and have just finished the tail, wings and fuse. Can anybody help out? Goz vlasblom 90171 vlasblom@ripnet com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: crate
Date: Apr 02, 2003
Location and starting price please. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gozewijn Vlasblom" <vlasblom(at)ripnet.com> Subject: RV7-List: crate > > looking to buy/take over: > RV-7 or RV-9 quick build crate. > I am in the proces of moving acros the country and have just finished the > tail, wings and fuse. > Can anybody help out? > Goz vlasblom 90171 > vlasblom@ripnet com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - HINT FOR RV7 BUILDERS
Date: Apr 03, 2003
Foks, a hint for those building RV7 fuselages. The tail cone has two double bulkheads and a pre-bent very thick .040 skin. When assembled the whole deal is very rigid. The main manufacturing work is to cut a mousehole to accommodate the tail wheel spring entering the aft fuselage. The plan provides a sample shape, which I traced and made. The skin rubbed the steel tail spring tube weldment, so I cut a lot more, aligned the assembly with the fuselage skin and started drilling. Now after drilling I found a heap of misaligned holes, which had been hidden by the three layers of outer skin, lower thick skin and stiffener. Not impressed. Found that the mousehole was still not big enough, and the spring weldment was still holding the tail lower skin half a hole diameter lower than it should be. Rats, so I had to elongate the mousehole forward by 1.5 inches to get the skin clear of the weldment, so the skin could move up a bit. Not impressed, but solved the misalignment, but had to re-drill and dimple/countersink for oversized -4 rivets. Remedy, cut the mousehole very much bigger than the plan shows, to ensure you have daylight between thick skin and the weldment under very tight cleco pressure. Then marry it to the fuselage and drill. Hope this helps someone, David David A FranCIS, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia Email: david.francis(at)defence.gov.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics ISP Upgrade COMPLETED!
Dear Listers, I just wanted to send out a quick note to let everyone know that the 1.5Mb T1 connection upgrade went smoothly today. They brought up the new line and router yesterday on a test subnet and today the ISP switched over connectivity about 12 noon with little to no incident. I just finished some performance testing, and it appears that actual throughput and interactive response is noticeably improved as advertised! Enjoy! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2003
Subject: [ Fred Stucklen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Fred Stucklen Subject: Electronic Ignition Power http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com.04.02.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris-Indira Kleen" <ikcw(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Good source for panel help
Date: Apr 06, 2003
For those who are looking to save yourselves from having to deal with the spaghetti at the back of your instrument panel, I strongly recommend Mark Krueger of Advantage Avionics. Mark has a wealth of experience and knowledge and stands behind his work. He is a great guy and he doesn't know that I'm sending this out. He bundles and wax ties wires so that it is as clean in the back as it is in the front. You get schematic drawings for your panel in the event that anything in the future requires repair. Truly the answer to your avionic needs. Contact info.: (909) 739-7779 Mark(at)AdvantageAvionics.com http://www.AdvantageAvionics.com Chris Kleen N515CW RV-6 - darn near there! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel Lights
RV7 Matronics List I bought a bunch of different panel lights and LED's from various companies - I need one for low oil pressure, one for low fuel pressure, and one for low voltage warning lights. Hands down the B&C Electrical - # S-888-1-2 - light is best I have seen. You can get it in different colors and it's $12.00 - save yourself the trouble and get one of these first - just get one and you'll see what i mean. Many of the LED's were not bright enough and some you could not see very well if it was mounted on the right side of the panel and you were on the left side. my 2 cents for the day. Sun'N Fun was a blast - the RV is the right thing to be building. In the lower price range the Zenith 601 was a hot ticket. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2003
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Lights
julia i looked on the aeroelectric site and didn't find the light part numbers then again b and c electric may not be aeroelectric at all I thought the number of planes at snf was lower than normal as well as the # of people cary --- Julia wrote: > > > > I bought a bunch of different panel lights and LED's > from various companies - I need one for low oil > pressure, one for low fuel pressure, and one for low > voltage warning lights. > > Hands down the B&C Electrical - # S-888-1-2 - light > is best I have seen. You can get it in different > colors and it's $12.00 - save yourself the trouble > and get one of these first - just get one and you'll > see what i mean. Many of the LED's were not bright > enough and some you could not see very well if it > was mounted on the right side of the panel and you > were on the left side. > > my 2 cents for the day. > > Sun'N Fun was a blast - the RV is the right thing to > be building. In the lower price range the Zenith > 601 was a hot ticket. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://tax.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Lights
http://www.bandc.biz/ above is the link to the site with the light for sale I bought a bunch of different panel lights and LED's from various companies - I need one for low oil pressure, one for low fuel pressure, and one for low voltage warning lights. Hands down the B&C Electrical - # S-888-1-2 - light is best I have seen. You can get it in different colors and it's $12.00 - save yourself the trouble and get one of these first - just get one and you'll see what i mean. Many of the LED's were not bright enough and some you could not see very well if it was mounted on the right side of the panel and you were on the left side. my 2 cents for the day. Sun'N Fun was a blast - the RV is the right thing to be building. In the lower price range the Zenith 601 was a hot ticket. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Lights
And on the site - the part number is WLA - not what I previously mentioned - sorry about that http://www.bandc.biz/ above is the link to the site with the light for sale I bought a bunch of different panel lights and LED's from various companies - I need one for low oil pressure, one for low fuel pressure, and one for low voltage warning lights. Hands down the B&C Electrical - # S-888-1-2 - light is best I have seen. You can get it in different colors and it's $12.00 - save yourself the trouble and get one of these first - just get one and you'll see what i mean. Many of the LED's were not bright enough and some you could not see very well if it was mounted on the right side of the panel and you were on the left side. my 2 cents for the day. Sun'N Fun was a blast - the RV is the right thing to be building. In the lower price range the Zenith 601 was a hot ticket. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel Labels - What do you need???
RV7 Matronics List Jim Irwin - Pres. and CEO of Aircraft Spruce has asked me to assemble a list of all the labels homebuilders might want for their airplane instrument panels. I purchased one of their sheets and it was lacking many - such as "low oil pressure" which you might put under a panel light - and "low fuel pressure", Low Oil Pressure Jim said this list has not been updated for a long time and wanted my input - so I ask you all to help. what do you want. We all need them and the sheet is only like $3.50 - but they are nice labels. Please send your requests to me directly at wings97302(at)yahoo.com & in the subject put "Instrument labels" thanks very much for your help --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels - What do you
need???
Date: Apr 10, 2003
From: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com>
G'Day All, Given current electrical systems are now employing dual batteries and dual alternators, please consider doubling up on a few labels rather than having to buy a second sheet.. Perhaps: 2 x MAIN 2 x AUX 1 x MAIN MASTER 1 x AUX MASTER 2 x LOW VOLTS WARN 2 x CROSSFEED, [X-FEED] 1 x L IGN 1 x R IGN 1 x STARTER 1 x ENGAGED 1 X MAIN FLD 1 X AUX FLD 30 X ON 30 X OFF Cheers, Wayne Blackler IO-360 Long EZ Seattle, WA -----Original Message----- From: Julia [mailto:wings97302(at)yahoo.com] Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels - What do you need??? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia Jim Irwin - Pres. and CEO of Aircraft Spruce has asked me to assemble a list of all the labels homebuilders might want for their airplane instrument panels. I purchased one of their sheets and it was lacking many - such as "low oil pressure" which you might put under a panel light - and "low fuel pressure", Low Oil Pressure Jim said this list has not been updated for a long time and wanted my input - so I ask you all to help. what do you want. We all need them and the sheet is only like $3.50 - but they are nice labels. Please send your requests to me directly at wings97302(at)yahoo.com & in the subject put "Instrument labels" thanks very much for your help --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Instrument Labels
Date: Apr 10, 2003
From: "Hedrington, Bret" <bhedrington(at)powersentry.com>
Not sure what is on the current list by may plane will have the following: The following will be placards on my panel/Plane RV-7 S=Switch B= Breaker Label P=Placard x Master x Emergency Buss x Avionics x Strobes x Nav x Land x Taxi x Wig-Wag x Alt Field b EFIS b GPS 1 b GPS 2 b NAV 1 b NAV 2 b COMM 1 b COMM 2 b Panel 1 b Panel 2 b Trim b MP3 p Turn to open With Arrow Clock Wise s Panel Dim p Rudder Trim p Elevator trim p G-Limits +6 -3 S E-Buss Only! P Left Heat Right Air P Experimental Aircraft P Purge before starting S Left Aux Tank Transfer S Right Aux Tank Transfer P 100LL Fuel Only P 100LL Fuel Only P Pull In Case Of Fire Plus the usual stuff... RV-7 IO-360 Reserve Fuel Tanks...Dynon EFIS with Backup Electric and NO suck pump. But am still looking at the ATP turbine... Bret N997RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Please send in Panel Label Ideas
RV7 Matronics List As previously mentioned, Aircraft Spruce will modernize there label sheet - if we send in all the ideas we want for labels for our homebuilt instrument panels. "low voltage", Low oil, Low fuel pressue - for example - i have yet to see them on any sheets?? thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2003
From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: running fuselage wires
I had initially run most of my wires through the same passage way where the linkage goes which runs the elevator - to get wires from the front of the fuselage to the rear. I just did not like how it looked - a tight fit and I don't like the idea of the wires rubbing on the elevator control rod. I've now pulled up the floor which was pop riveted in place and put in snap bushing and run the wires there -is this ok?? I will not be able to examine them in the future for chaffing?? (without pulling up the floor) is that bad - or not so bad?? I thought I would put that plastic wire protection around the bundles of wires before putting the floor back down. thanks --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2003
From: "Boyd Seal" <supersonic(at)mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: running fuselage wires
---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:03:57 -0700 (PDT) > >I had initially run most of my wires through the same passage way where the linkage goes which runs the elevator - to get wires from the front of the fuselage to the rear. I just did not like how it looked - a tight fit and I don't like the idea of the wires rubbing on the elevator control rod. I've now pulled up the floor which was pop riveted in place and put in snap bushing and run the wires there -is this ok?? I will not be able to examine them in the future for chaffing?? (without pulling up the floor) is that bad - or not so bad?? I thought I would put that plastic wire protection around the bundles of wires before putting the floor back down. thanks > > >--------------------------------- >I ran the black ribbed tubing Van sells, in the fuselage under the floors. (same as in the wings) You can add run new wires, etc. and there's no chaffing. Boyd Seal Flying -6 building -8 > >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === >_- =================================================================== === > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TED JONES" <RV6(at)lockhart.net>
Subject: pop rivets and floor boards
Date: Apr 12, 2003
IN ALL THE RV'S WE HAVE BUILT WE HAVE ALWAYS NUT PLATED THE FLOOR BOARDS IN. IF YOU WANT TO AT LATER TIMES TO RUN WIRES ETC. UNDER FLOOR BOARDS THEN YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO TEAR UP YOUR AIRPLANE TED ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Smith" <jsmith(at)openairnet.com>
Subject: RV-7A vs RV9A
Date: Apr 14, 2003
I would like to ask for some opinions about the differences between an RV-7A and a RV-9A. I originally chose the RV-9A, but after creating a layout of my hangar with visio and trying to arrange my C172 and new the RV-9A around my existing small apartment in the hangar, I found that it ain't possible. However the RV-7A fits perfectly. I have about 300 hours in the 172, stretched over many years. I get to fly about 2-4 hours per month (wife permitting). My thought was that the RV-9A would be a fun and faster airplane to have available, but with a warm fuzzy because of the low-time pilot ammenities. I guess I am a little worried as to whether I can handle an RV-7A. Even though I have to admit that being forced into the RV-7A because of limited space, intrigues me because I would love to have one. Any thoughts? Jim Smith www.fun-places-to-fly.com/rv-7a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: RV-7A vs RV9A
Date: Apr 15, 2003
Jim, One's choice of plane is a highly personal matter, like choosing the correct wife. So what follows is my approach to choice and others may feel free to totally disagree and not offend. The main driver of the choice is the intended usage of the plane, not where it will fit. You can always stack planes, use dollies to make them fit, extend the hangar or go get a new one. Now to the planes. I once owned a Tri-pacer, a good cruiser but ultimately boring - why? I found that while doing cross countries is excellent, time and money generally mean that we only did about two big trips a year. But the plane has to be flown weekly or fortnightly to keep corrosion out of the engine and cobwebs out of the pilot. So most flying is in fact local. You quickly get bored doing circuitsin a non-demanding nose dragger. So I found an unexpected propensity to "throw the plane around a bit" - and a joy and interest in mild aerobatics. Not the lunch regurgitating type, rather the elegant loop, roll etc. Now the RV9 is a compromised optimised for two compatible aims - to be cheaper than the RV6 and other competitors, and to be a very efficient cruiser. To be cheap it was designed to take a 125hp engine (160max)and to be efficient at that horsepower it had to be light. Van reduced the weight by eliminating the aerobatic capability and installing a much lighter structure, particularly in the wings. It is indeed efficient as a cruiser, maybe 20% less fuel for the same cruise performance as a RV6. The RV7 is optimised as a sports plane, with some concession to cruising efficiency (fuel load and side by side seating). Its aerobatic and if you hang a 180 or 200 hp engine on the front it flies like a fighter and goes a long way (a very long way with the Johanson tip tank option), but burns more fuel to do so. Its a more capable all-rounder than the specialised cruiser, the RV9. If you want to expand your flying skills then go for the aerobatic capability of the RV4, 7 or 8, and dont forget these babies have tail wheels - harder to learn to control, but immensely more satisfying to land once you have mastered the technique. Tantalising choices. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE, with a Jabiru 5100 engine I hope. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Smith [mailto:jsmith(at)openairnet.com] Subject: RV7-List: RV-7A vs RV9A I would like to ask for some opinions about the differences between an RV-7A and a RV-9A. I originally chose the RV-9A, but after creating a layout of my hangar with visio and trying to arrange my C172 and new the RV-9A around my existing small apartment in the hangar, I found that it ain't possible. However the RV-7A fits perfectly. I have about 300 hours in the 172, stretched over many years. I get to fly about 2-4 hours per month (wife permitting). My thought was that the RV-9A would be a fun and faster airplane to have available, but with a warm fuzzy because of the low-time pilot ammenities. I guess I am a little worried as to whether I can handle an RV-7A. Even though I have to admit that being forced into the RV-7A because of limited space, intrigues me because I would love to have one. Any thoughts? Jim Smith www.fun-places-to-fly.com/rv-7a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: RST web site
Date: Apr 15, 2003
Does anybody know what the web address is of RST. They put together headset, audio panel etc do it yourself kits. Regards Cliff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Taylor" <rv7(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RST web site
Date: Apr 15, 2003
Cliff, The web address is http://www.rst-engr.com/. -David Taylor (207DT reserved) Building the empennage Warner Robins, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za> Subject: RV7-List: RST web site > > Does anybody know what the web address is of RST. They put together headset, audio panel etc do it yourself kits. > Regards Cliff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Taylor" <rv7(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7A vs RV9A
Date: Apr 15, 2003
Jim, I really think you'd have no trouble in an RV-7A. I flew 152's and 172's and transitioned to a Sonerai after 4.8 hours in a Champ. After that I bought a T-18 and have had no problems. The RV is a great aircraft. You might see if you can get a ride with someone in a 6A or a 7A and that might ease your conscience. Much cheaper than a tail kit even if you have to drive a couple of hours. Most EAA chapters have pilots who are more than willing to give a ride. Just my .02 cents. -David Taylor (207DT reserved) Building the empennage Warner Robins, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Smith" <jsmith(at)openairnet.com> Subject: RV7-List: RV-7A vs RV9A > > I would like to ask for some opinions about the differences between an RV-7A and a RV-9A. I originally chose the RV-9A, but after creating a layout of my hangar with visio and trying to arrange my C172 and new the RV-9A around my existing small apartment in the hangar, I found that it ain't possible. However the RV-7A fits perfectly. > > I have about 300 hours in the 172, stretched over many years. I get to fly about 2-4 hours per month (wife permitting). My thought was that the RV-9A would be a fun and faster airplane to have available, but with a warm fuzzy because of the low-time pilot ammenities. > > I guess I am a little worried as to whether I can handle an RV-7A. Even though I have to admit that being forced into the RV-7A because of limited space, intrigues me because I would love to have one. Any thoughts? > > Jim Smith > www.fun-places-to-fly.com/rv-7a > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: RST web site
Date: Apr 15, 2003
Thanks David. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Taylor" <rv7(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: RST web site > > Cliff, > The web address is http://www.rst-engr.com/. > > -David Taylor (207DT reserved) > Building the empennage > Warner Robins, GA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: RST web site > > > > > > Does anybody know what the web address is of RST. They put together > headset, audio panel etc do it yourself kits. > > Regards Cliff > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2003
From: John Burns <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7A vs RV9A
Jim, I recommend that you define your mission, then double check it - be honest with yourself. Most of us want four or more aircraft to accommodate various purposes. I recommend that you select an aircraft that will get used most frequently or be most enjoyable to you. If you're lucky, the two will be one in the same. Regarding the 7 vs. 9 - are you ham fisted? If not, you'll be o.k. The roll rate on the 7 is great fun, but over-controlling could do serious damage. Most Cessna pilots can develop a light touch. However, I know a few that would probably wreck a RV-7(A) in short order. Also, I recommend that you analyze the trade-offs between a conventional and tri-gear. The conventional gear looks great, but it won't handle rough strips any better than the tri-gear (with wheel fairings installed). Best wishes, John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2003
From: Chris W <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RST web site
Cliff Lotter wrote: > Does anybody know what the web address is of RST. They put together headset, audio panel etc do it yourself kits. > Regards Cliff http://www.rst-engr.com/ -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2003
From: Brooks Wolfe <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Longetivity of dimple dies
Do dimple dies have a life to them? It's hard to tell by eyeball, but it seems the dimpling process has begun to result in slightly larger holes than when they were fresh. I'm currently building my second tank, and it's gotten to the point where a clecos will no longer hold the skin to the ribs at the rear end. I tried multiple clecos in these holes, some old, some brand new. Could worn drill bits be the culprit? Brooks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Longetivity of dimple dies
Date: Apr 15, 2003
A dull drill bit will drill a larger hole. I seriously doubt that the dimple dies have anything to do with it. I only have one skin left to install on my -7 all the others are riveted on and their dimples are as good as they were on the HS, I suspect that this one set of dimple dies would build another half dozen airplanes. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV7-List: Longetivity of dimple dies > > Do dimple dies have a life to them? It's hard to tell by eyeball, > but it seems the dimpling process has begun to result in slightly larger > holes than when they were fresh. I'm currently building my second tank, > and it's gotten to the point where a clecos will no longer hold the skin > to the ribs at the rear end. I tried multiple clecos in these holes, > some old, some brand new. > > Could worn drill bits be the culprit? > > Brooks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
Subject: Re: Longetivity of dimple dies
Date: Apr 15, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Longetivity of dimple dies I have a number of worn #40 drill bits, but I'm short of #30's. Question: How long must I continue to use my #40's to get them to become #30's? > > A dull drill bit will drill a larger hole. I seriously doubt that the > dimple dies have anything to do with it. I only have one skin left to > install on my -7 all the others are riveted on and their dimples are as good > as they were on the HS, I suspect that this one set of dimple dies would > build another half dozen airplanes. > > Godspeed, > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage > http://www.myrv7.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: Longetivity of dimple dies > > > > > > Do dimple dies have a life to them? It's hard to tell by eyeball, > > but it seems the dimpling process has begun to result in slightly larger > > holes than when they were fresh. I'm currently building my second tank, > > and it's gotten to the point where a clecos will no longer hold the skin > > to the ribs at the rear end. I tried multiple clecos in these holes, > > some old, some brand new. > > > > Could worn drill bits be the culprit? > > > > Brooks > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Longetivity of dimple dies
Date: Apr 16, 2003
Be sure to check you have the number 40 male end of the dimple die matched up with the number 40 female dimple die. I have been told of some problems before when the male is a smaller hole size than the female. (doesn't work too good in the human world either, so a friend has told me but I wouldn't know about that :-) Check to be sure the sizes match. Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved. Working on Canopy of Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Longetivity of dimple dies > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> > To: > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Longetivity of dimple dies > > I have a number of worn #40 drill bits, but I'm short of #30's. Question: > How long must I continue to use my #40's to get them to become #30's? > > > > > A dull drill bit will drill a larger hole. I seriously doubt that the > > dimple dies have anything to do with it. I only have one skin left to > > install on my -7 all the others are riveted on and their dimples are as > good > > as they were on the HS, I suspect that this one set of dimple dies would > > build another half dozen airplanes. > > > > Godspeed, > > > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas > > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage > > http://www.myrv7.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13(at)earthlink.net> > > To: > > Subject: RV7-List: Longetivity of dimple dies > > > > > > > > > > > Do dimple dies have a life to them? It's hard to tell by eyeball, > > > but it seems the dimpling process has begun to result in slightly larger > > > holes than when they were fresh. I'm currently building my second tank, > > > and it's gotten to the point where a clecos will no longer hold the skin > > > to the ribs at the rear end. I tried multiple clecos in these holes, > > > some old, some brand new. > > > > > > Could worn drill bits be the culprit? > > > > > > Brooks > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Longetivity of dimple dies
Date: Apr 16, 2003
Brooks, Dimple dies dont really have a life unless you break the pilot on the male. I dimple with the outside plastic on and that causes a build up of plastic fragments inside the female die that I clear out from time to time. Oversize holes might be caused by drilling excentric holes - I have this problem on one line of holes where the skin had an undetected warp in it, the overlap gave me oval holes. Overlap between rib and skin is most likely on a curved surface such as tank leading edge. Worn drill bits do wander more and might give oversize and/or oval holes. Any hint of bluntness and I chuck out the drill bet and replace with new. The dimple dies are unlikely to be the cause unless you are not dimpling square to the surface - again more likely on a curved skin. My clecos are now getting on in life and are also beginning to cause hole damage, might be time for me to ditch the worst. Hope this helps, David Francis, VH-ZEE, putting the centre fuselage together. -----Original Message----- From: Brooks Wolfe [mailto:slipstream13(at)earthlink.net] Subject: RV7-List: Longetivity of dimple dies Do dimple dies have a life to them? It's hard to tell by eyeball, but it seems the dimpling process has begun to result in slightly larger holes than when they were fresh. I'm currently building my second tank, and it's gotten to the point where a clecos will no longer hold the skin to the ribs at the rear end. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thorne" <j.thorne(at)cox.net>
Subject: Horizontal Stabilizer Rivets
Date: Apr 25, 2003
Is there any reasonable way to buck the rivets in the center rib of the HS? I looked at some other RV's and they have used some blind rivets on part of the bottom skin. The plans say these are optional, after trying to get all shapes of bucking bars in there it doesn't appear "optional" to me. Looks like I'm headed that way also unless I am missing something. Jim Thorne RV7A QB CHD Arizona ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Rivets
Date: Apr 26, 2003
The easiest way to do it is to leave the inboard nose ribs just clecoed on (as opposed to riveting those ribs on). Then, when you go to shoot/buck the center nose rib rivets, remove the inboard ribs and reach your arm in to buck. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (finish) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Thorne" <j.thorne(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: Horizontal Stabilizer Rivets > > Is there any reasonable way to buck the rivets in the center rib of the HS? I looked at some other RV's and they have used some blind rivets on part of the bottom skin. The plans say these are optional, after trying to get all shapes of bucking bars in there it doesn't appear "optional" to me. Looks like I'm headed that way also unless I am missing something. > > Jim Thorne > RV7A QB > CHD Arizona > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2003
From: Chris W <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
Subject: wing height
I was wondering what the actual measurement from the ground to the top of the wing, at the rear spar, is on both the 7 and 7A. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2003
Subject: [ John Huft ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: John Huft Subject: The entire Pagosa Springs wing of Van's Airforce. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/aflyer@direcway.com.04.27.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Jessen <jjessen(at)nfow.com>
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/29/03
Date: Apr 30, 2003
I am traveling on the 29th, 30th and 1st, with limited access to email and voicemail. Please do leave me a message, and I'll respond as soon as possible. Voicemail at: 339-223-2319. Email at: jjessen(at)nfow.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2003
Subject: Gear leg fairing
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
A useful idea on making the upper fairing. This is the fairing that will set up to the fuselage attached to the gear leg fairing. If you take the scrape from the gear leg fairing and cut it to fit the fuselage side. By using a piece of paper for a pattern will work nice. Then you can make it on top of that piece or just use it like it is. Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2003
Subject: [ Greg Hunsicker ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Greg Hunsicker Subject: 4 Ship Formation http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gh2538@cjnetworks.com.05.03.03/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Kowalski" <salned(at)msn.com>
Subject: Parachutes for Sale
Date: May 05, 2003
Two new strong Parachutes for sale. $1200.00 each new. One back and One seat. $600.00 each plus shipping and handling. E-mail salned(at)msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Congratulations Cash
Date: May 08, 2003
I am looking forward to the day when I post a message like you did today. I too will encourage the riveters " keep pounding/squeezing those rivets ." I am looking forward to that day. It will happen with the help of others. Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved. Working on Canopy of Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: ?
Date: May 09, 2003
Anybody there? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Smith" <jsmith(at)openairnet.com>
Subject: Re: ?
Date: May 09, 2003
Looks like everybody's on RV7Yahoo today. Its' been real busy. ----- Original Message ----- From: <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com> Subject: RV7-List: ? > > Anybody there? > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2003
From: allenblck(at)netscape.net
Subject: sharpening screw shank drill bits.
Is anyone interested in an attachment to sharpen their screw shank aviation bits in a Drill Doctor Bit Sharpener? Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dom Forrest" <dominic.forrest(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Riveting R901 skin to R904 to R710 horn brace on RV7 Rudder
(new style) - rivet callout
Date: May 11, 2003
Hi, I'm confused by the rivet callout on drawing 7 for the above parts. It reads "AN426AD3-4 (CS4-4 OPTIONAL) ALL R-901 SKIN TO R-904 BOTTOM RIB TO R-710 HORN BRACE RIVETS" Unless I'm missing something the CS4-4 requires a larger dimple than the AN426AD3-4 - which can't be added at this stage. Is the callout correct or should the alternative be MK-319-BS? If the callout is correct how are you meant to enlarge the dimple at this stage? Many Thanks Dom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Riveting R901 skin to R904 to R710 horn brace
o n RV7 Rudder (new style) - rivet callout
Date: May 12, 2003
Dom, all pop rivets are 1/8 in diameter and should attract a 1/8 dimple. Just drill out and either countersink or dimple the wider hole, assuming you can get access. If no access then use you confined space dimple dies. Its not easy if the bits are already assembled. That's why it pays to read ahead in the instructions to pick up all this sort of detail. Have fun, David Francis, VH-ZEE, fuselage, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Dom Forrest [mailto:dominic.forrest(at)ntlworld.com] Sent: Monday, 12 May 2003 03:51 To: RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; Rv7-List; support(at)vansaircraft.com Subject: RV7-List: Riveting R901 skin to R904 to R710 horn brace on RV7 Rudder (new style) - rivet callout Hi, I'm confused by the rivet callout on drawing 7 for the above parts. It reads "AN426AD3-4 (CS4-4 OPTIONAL) ALL R-901 SKIN TO R-904 BOTTOM RIB TO R-710 HORN BRACE RIVETS" Unless I'm missing something the CS4-4 requires a larger dimple than the AN426AD3-4 - which can't be added at this stage. Is the callout correct or should the alternative be MK-319-BS? If the callout is correct how are you meant to enlarge the dimple at this stage? Many Thanks Dom Contributions other messages. members. http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2003
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting R901 skin to R904 to R710 horn brace on RV7 Rudder
(new style) - rivet callout Dom order you some 3/32 pulled rivets from Aircraft Spruce or someone. It will get you out of situations like this when the alternative solution is not attractive. cary rhodes --- Dom Forrest wrote: > > > > Hi, > I'm confused by the rivet callout on drawing 7 > for the above parts. It > reads > > "AN426AD3-4 (CS4-4 OPTIONAL) ALL R-901 SKIN TO R-904 > BOTTOM RIB TO R-710 > HORN BRACE RIVETS" > > > Unless I'm missing something the CS4-4 requires a > larger dimple than the > AN426AD3-4 - which can't be added at this stage. > > Is the callout correct or should the alternative be > MK-319-BS? > > > If the callout is correct how are you meant to > enlarge the dimple at this > stage? > > > Many Thanks > > > Dom > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2003
From: William Reeves <reevesfamily(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Capacative Fuel Quantity Sender Plates
I had to trim the outboard Capacitive Fuel Quantity Sender Plate to allow 3/16" clearance around the stiffeners on the bottom of the tank. The inboard plate had sufficient clearance around the stiffeners that it did not need to be trimmed for this reason. My question is should I trim the inboard plate anyway to match the profile of the outboard plate? I'm not sure if having different size plates affects the functionality of the plates. Thoughts? Thanks in advance for your replies! Dan Reeves Wings - Right Fuel Tank N516DR Reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2003
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Capacative Fuel Quantity Sender Plates
The amount you trimmed it is insignificant in the whole scheme of things. The tank is irregular in shape, the nose rib has a hole in it, etc. Don't sweat it, it will work fine with your trimming. Dick Tasker., 90573 right wing William Reeves wrote: > > >I had to trim the outboard Capacitive Fuel Quantity Sender Plate to >allow 3/16" clearance around the stiffeners on the bottom of the >tank. The inboard plate had sufficient clearance around the >stiffeners that it did not need to be trimmed for this reason. My >question is should I trim the inboard plate anyway to match the >profile of the outboard plate? I'm not sure if having different size >plates affects the functionality of the plates. Thoughts? Thanks in >advance for your replies! > >Dan Reeves >Wings - Right Fuel Tank >N516DR Reserved > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2003
Subject: [ Len Leggette ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Len Leggette Subject: Newly Painted RV-8A http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Lenleg@aol.com.06.01.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2003
Subject: [ Wayne Petrus ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Wayne Petrus Subject: RV8A pics http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Dwpetrus@aol.com.06.01.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2003
Subject: [ Dave Pohl ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dave Pohl Subject: Ted Gauthier's RV6 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/drpohl@comcast.net.06.01.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2003
Subject: [ Cash Copeland ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Cash Copeland Subject: First Flight RV6 N46FC http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/JusCash@aol.com.06.01.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2003
Subject: [ Tom Garner ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Tom Garner Subject: Oil cooler door http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jtgarner@shentel.net.06.01.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2003
Subject: [ Bill Gunn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bill Gunn Subject: Gear Fairings Source http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/WGUNN@dot.state.tx.us.06.01.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Adams <jadams(at)scoutmedical.com>
Subject: A bright idea
Date: Jun 12, 2003
I'm just finishing my panel and it occurs to me that working under the panel later to adjust the wiring will be a challenge (I have a slider) just to see, so I'm putting a couple 12 v lights under there before I close it up. Thought I'd pass on the idea since the list is so quiet. John N577RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: Re: Application
Date: Jun 26, 2003
Please see the attached zip file for details. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FPantkeUT(at)AOL.com
Date: Jun 26, 2003
Subject: reapply
please continue on r.v.-7 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2003
Subject: [ John Starn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: John Starn Subject: Wing Tip Storage Lockers http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jhstarn@earthlink.net.06.28.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2003
Subject: [ John Starn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: John Starn Subject: Wing Tip Storage Lockers http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jhstarn@earthlink.net.06.28.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: Application
Date: Jun 30, 2003
Please see the attached zip file for details. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2003
Subject: [ Gary Zilik ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Gary Zilik Subject: CH Products Stick Grip http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/zilik@direcpc.com.07.05.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DANBERGERONHAM(at)AOL.com
Date: Jul 07, 2003
Subject: RV-7A Right Elevator Spar Machine Countersinking Technique
I received my empennage kit in Feb 03 and have been moving right along. I've completed the vertical and horizontal stabilizers and the rudder and am currently working on the right elevator. As of this evening I'm stumped. Page 6-9 of Van's instructions say, "Machine countersink the E-709 attach holes on the forward face of E-702. E-709 and E-702 will be riveted together with flush head rivets, so that the WD-605-1-R elevator horn can be mounted flush with the forward face of the E-702 spar." E-702 is the spar and E-709 the inboard rib, both are .032" thick. I'm nervous about machine countersinking in .032 and practiced on some scrap until I had it down to a gnat's eyelash with Avery's countersink cutter and cage. "Beautiful," I'm thinking, "I can do this, no sweat." I then discover that of the four holes which have to be countersunk, two, the top and bottom holes, are so close to the spar flange that it (the flange) gets in the way of the countersink cage and there is no way to get the cutter lined up with the holes. I'm sure others have solved this one. How is it done folks? Dan Bergeron Chicopee, MA (Moving along smartly on the empennage and about to order the wings.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Jul 08, 2003
Please see the attached zip file for details. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Jul 08, 2003
Please see the attached zip file for details. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Parks" <flightwork2(at)msn.com>
Subject: B&C Alternators
Date: Jul 08, 2003
Bob I'm installing a B&C L-60 alternator in my all electric RV-7 and was wondering whether the Ford VR166 regulator will work instead of B&C's LR3C-14? One could buy a truckload of Ford voltage regulators for the price of a single B&C unit. Is out put voltage adjustable on the Ford Unit? I also have your OVM 14 module as well and this should should provide over voltage protection if it works as advertised. Your comments would be greately appreciated. regards, Tom Parks RV-7 N620CF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2003
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Nutplate Question
I need a #6 or #8 nutplate that is smaller than the standard size. Does anyone know what the rivet hole spacing is on the miniature nutplates (MS21069 type)? Thanks, Dick Tasker, 90753 Waiting for Fuselage and working on the fiberglass tips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant(at)sw.rr.com>
Subject: Nutplate Question
Date: Jul 11, 2003
I don't have the measurements handy, but here's some sage advice: Go ahead and pick up your Aircraft Spruce catalog and turn to the section on nutplates. Order a few of every different configuration, miniature and full-size, #6 and #8. Some of them are a little expensive, so just get 10 or 15 of those kind. For the less expensive, you can get some more. You never know when you'll run into some little job that would be much easier with a smaller size nutplate, or a corner nutplate, or a one-ear, etc.... These kinds of things are much more common as you get into the fuselage and finishing kits. It'll cost you a little bit to do this, but it will pay for itself if saved frustration. Good luck, Jordan Grant RV-6 Slow Build FWF N198G Reserved -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard E. Tasker Subject: RV7-List: Nutplate Question --> I need a #6 or #8 nutplate that is smaller than the standard size. Does anyone know what the rivet hole spacing is on the miniature nutplates (MS21069 type)? Thanks, Dick Tasker, 90753 Waiting for Fuselage and working on the fiberglass tips direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Len Loudis <n713ml(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tip tanks
I would welcome thoughts on installation of tip tanks on my -7A. Given my mission for the plane, that is my intent. I am less certain about plumbing into QB wings (still open), whether there are alternatives to the Johannsen tanks (as listed in the Vans catalog), and so forth. So please feel free to ramble on. Any thoughts will be fresh at this point. Thanks, Len __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: Tip tanks Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:51:07 +1000 Len, I am going for the Johanson tanks, which are now in production for the RV7/8 sheared tips. I saw the prototype and they look excellent quality. Price is A$3500.00. There are alternatives: Roll your own tips by installing a membrane or coating in the Vans tips, and add necessary bulkhead, filler, drain and exit plumbing, & nav lights if applicable. The Vans tips are permeable to fuel. So the membrane, coating & bulkhead will reduce your fuel capacity by a litre to two compared to the Johanson tanks, which are made of fuel proof fibreglass. Also someone somewhere installed a aluminium pipe tank in the leading edge of a RV. Very neat, holds about 8USG each, the tube tank slides into the leading edge rib lightening holes. Both the Johanson and tube tanks do not seem to require strengthening of the outer spar. These options are cheap but labour intensive. VH-VIL has tip tanks plus two aluminium wedge shaped tanks that fit in the triangle behind the seat backs, just over the flap mechanism. They are removable and leave most of the baggage compartment free for, guess what - baggage. Easy to build in aluminium, cheap, but gives aft c of g and also reduces your baggage weight allowance. Fuel in the wings & tips is the most structurally efficient place to carry fuel due to lack of wing bending moment. These tanks were very neat and well thought through. I have also seen one Australian RV6 with four leading edge tanks. He wishes to fly to Oshkosk across the big puddle. With 80 odd usgallons per wing he had to strengthen his outer wing spars and his bladder. He has a removable tank for the right seat giving over 20 hrs endurance. He is thinking of a sleeper seat too! Regards, David Francis, tipping the canoe of VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Len Loudis [mailto:n713ml(at)yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:03 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Tip tanks I would welcome thoughts on installation of tip tanks on my -7A. Given my mission for the plane, that is my intent. I am less certain about plumbing into QB wings (still open), whether there are alternatives to the Johannsen tanks (as listed in the Vans catalog), and so forth. So please feel free to ramble on ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Burns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tip tanks
Date: Jul 17, 2003
I like what David had to say. For a while I though about installing auxiliary fuel tanks, so I listened for ideas at Sun 'n Fun. I met a RV-8 builder from Indiana (Evansville?) that decided to build a partially wetted wing, "like a Mooney." Sounded interesting, but it won't work for QB wing. Regarding plumbing to the tip tanks, consider using 1/2" diameter bushing (O.D.) and purchasing a 1/2" step drill and modified extensions (I think you'll need three or four) from Avery tools. If you can't find drill extension in the catalog, call ask for Bob Avery. He'll give you the part numbers and advise. Another approach would be to weld the drill bit to a slightly smaller rod. Cheers, John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: Chris W <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
Subject: Drill extensions was Tip tanks
John Burns wrote: > Regarding plumbing to the tip tanks, consider using 1/2" diameter bushing (O.D.) and purchasing a 1/2" step drill and modified extensions (I think you'll need three or four) from Avery tools. If you can't find drill extension in the catalog, call ask for Bob Avery. He'll give you the part numbers and advise. > > Another approach would be to weld the drill bit to a slightly smaller rod. An easier is to just make a drill extension from a steel rod of what ever length you need (less than $5) and a one piece set screw coupling from www.mscdirect.com you can find them in the lower left corner of this catalog page www.mscdirect.com/PDF/PDF03/3549.pdf or from www.mcmaster.com on this page of their catalog http://www.mcmaster.com/pdf/109/1029.pdf -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 2003
From: Len Loudis <n713ml(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: tip tanks, continued
Folks, Thanks for the thoughts. Couple more questions: 1) I do not have a clue how to reach Johanson for literature, etc, and can't find him on the web. Is Van's his only outlet? 2) In terms of plumbinq QB, are the tips flowing directly into the mains via a check valve of some sort? Or plumbed through a four-tank fuel selector as in my Piper Cherokee 235-C? 3) Any information on whether Johanson will be at OSH? Thanks, Len > From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> > Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: Tip tanks > > Len, > I am going for the Johanson tanks, which are now in production for > the RV7/8 > sheared tips. I saw the prototype and they look excellent quality. > Price is > A$3500.00. > > There are alternatives: > Roll your own tips by installing a membrane or coating in the Vans > tips, and > add necessary bulkhead, filler, drain and exit plumbing, & nav lights > if > applicable. The Vans tips are permeable to fuel. So the membrane, > coating & > bulkhead will reduce your fuel capacity by a litre to two compared to > the > Johanson tanks, which are made of fuel proof fibreglass. > > Also someone somewhere installed a aluminium pipe tank in the leading > edge > of a RV. Very neat, holds about 8USG each, the tube tank slides into > the > leading edge rib lightening holes. > > Both the Johanson and tube tanks do not seem to require strengthening > of the > outer spar. These options are cheap but labour intensive. > > VH-VIL has tip tanks plus two aluminium wedge shaped tanks that fit > in the > triangle behind the seat backs, just over the flap mechanism. They > are > removable and leave most of the baggage compartment free for, guess > what - > baggage. Easy to build in aluminium, cheap, but gives aft c of g and > also > reduces your baggage weight allowance. Fuel in the wings & tips is > the most > structurally efficient place to carry fuel due to lack of wing > bending > moment. These tanks were very neat and well thought through. > > I have also seen one Australian RV6 with four leading edge tanks. He > wishes > to fly to Oshkosk across the big puddle. With 80 odd usgallons per > wing he > had to strengthen his outer wing spars and his bladder. He has a > removable > tank for the right seat giving over 20 hrs endurance. He is thinking > of a > sleeper seat too! > > Regards, David Francis, tipping the canoe of VH-ZEE, Canberra, > Australia. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Len Loudis [mailto:n713ml(at)yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:03 > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: Tip tanks > > > > I would welcome thoughts on installation of tip tanks > on my > -7A. Given > my mission for the plane, that is my intent. I am > less > certain about > plumbing into QB wings (still open), whether there > are > alternatives to > the Johannsen tanks (as listed in the Vans catalog), > and so > forth. So > please feel free to ramble on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2003
Subject: [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim Cone Subject: Nice Straight Edge... http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.07.29.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2003
From: Duncan Engh <duncanengh(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 07/30/03
Please take me off your mailing list. Duncan Engh --- RV7-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete RV7-List Digest can be also be > found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > includes the plain ASCII > version of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-07-30.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2003-07-30.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > RV7-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed > 07/30/03: 0 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: tip tanks, continued
Date: Aug 18, 2003
Len, I am just back from Oshkosh, hence the delay in reply. Contact john Johanson direct at Jon Johanson [jonj(at)senet.com.au]. He has good documentation which I will email to you offline. Regards, David Francis. -----Original Message----- From: Len Loudis [mailto:n713ml(at)yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, 20 July 2003 06:50 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: tip tanks, continued Folks, Thanks for the thoughts. Couple more questions: 1) I do not have a clue how to reach Johanson for literature, etc, and can't find him on the web. Is Van's his only outlet? 2) In terms of plumbinq QB, are the tips flowing directly into the mains via a check valve of some sort? Or plumbed through a four-tank fuel selector as in my Piper Cherokee 235-C? 3) Any information on whether Johanson will be at OSH? Thanks, Len > From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> > Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: Tip tanks > > Len, > I am going for the Johanson tanks, which are now in production for > the RV7/8 > sheared tips. I saw the prototype and they look excellent quality. > Price is > A$3500.00. > > There are alternatives: > Roll your own tips by installing a membrane or coating in the Vans > tips, and > add necessary bulkhead, filler, drain and exit plumbing, & nav lights > if > applicable. The Vans tips are permeable to fuel. So the membrane, > coating & > bulkhead will reduce your fuel capacity by a litre to two compared to > the > Johanson tanks, which are made of fuel proof fibreglass. > > Also someone somewhere installed a aluminium pipe tank in the leading > edge > of a RV. Very neat, holds about 8USG each, the tube tank slides into > the > leading edge rib lightening holes. > > Both the Johanson and tube tanks do not seem to require strengthening > of the > outer spar. These options are cheap but labour intensive. > > VH-VIL has tip tanks plus two aluminium wedge shaped tanks that fit > in the > triangle behind the seat backs, just over the flap mechanism. They > are > removable and leave most of the baggage compartment free for, guess > what - > baggage. Easy to build in aluminium, cheap, but gives aft c of g and > also > reduces your baggage weight allowance. Fuel in the wings & tips is > the most > structurally efficient place to carry fuel due to lack of wing > bending > moment. These tanks were very neat and well thought through. > > I have also seen one Australian RV6 with four leading edge tanks. He > wishes > to fly to Oshkosk across the big puddle. With 80 odd usgallons per > wing he > had to strengthen his outer wing spars and his bladder. He has a > removable > tank for the right seat giving over 20 hrs endurance. He is thinking > of a > sleeper seat too! > > Regards, David Francis, tipping the canoe of VH-ZEE, Canberra, > Australia. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Len Loudis [mailto:n713ml(at)yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:03 > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: Tip tanks > > > > I would welcome thoughts on installation of tip tanks > on my > -7A. Given > my mission for the plane, that is my intent. I am > less > certain about > plumbing into QB wings (still open), whether there > are > alternatives to > the Johannsen tanks (as listed in the Vans catalog), > and so > forth. So > please feel free to ramble on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ Contributions other messages. members. http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv7-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, ,
Subject: New dimpling tool for RV builders-ExperimentalAero
Date: Aug 17, 2003
RV-7/8/9 Builders, I have developed a new dimpling tool that is easier, faster and safer (on the skins) then any other tool offered by existing aircraft tool suppliers. I have designed it to accommodate all the skins used in a RV including the prebent leading and trailing edge skins. I am in the process of developing a website called ExperimentalAero.com. On this website you will find innovative tools and components for your experimental project. In particular I am announcing the DRDT-1 and offering it to those interested. I have listed estimated prices based on three option scenarios. Please take the time to look at the site, give me your feedback and let me know which products are of interest. Keep in mind that the site is a work in progress, so let me know if you find any errors. Thanks, Paul Merems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , , "RV10 Group"
Subject: ExperimentalAero.com DRDT-1 update
Date: Aug 19, 2003
Gents, For all that visited my site thank you. I have gotten some good feedback and have corrected some minor glitches. I am trying for determine the interest level in the DRDT-1. Before I begin low volume production I wanted to find out how many builder would buy this product. To try to keep the costs down I have offered it in three options. The DRDT-1 can be available shortly if there is interest. This is my form of market analysis. I am in the final stages of pricing for the MTDS-1 (modular tie down system). This will allow the builder to have a flush mount configurable tie down system for the baggage bay. I will continue to post updates on this newsgroup as things develop. Thanks for your interest and support, Paul Merems (ExperimentalAero) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Virgil Young" <vwyoung(at)comcast.net>
Subject: wx 10 stormscope antenna
Date: Aug 20, 2003
I plan to install a used WX10 stormscope in my RV7 quickbuild slider. Location seems to be critical. Aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead on the bottom of the aircraft is the logical location. Would appreciate any advice on location, technique and length of antenna cable. Virgil Young N777VY (reserved) vwyoung(at)comcast.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: wx 10 stormscope antenna
Date: Aug 22, 2003
Virgil, have you talked to Goodrich about this? When I was at Sun n Fun this year, I was chatting with the guy at the Stormscope display, and he said something about how the antenna is located "by your installer" using some kind of gizmo to determine where the antenna functions best. Sorry that I'm sketchy on the details, but I recall walking away thinking that if I ever put a stormscope in, that I would ask some avionics guru to help me with the antenna location. Good luck! Jerry Carter RV-8A 300 hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virgil Young" <vwyoung(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: wx 10 stormscope antenna > > I plan to install a used WX10 stormscope in my RV7 quickbuild slider. Location seems to be critical. Aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead on the bottom of the aircraft is the logical location. Would appreciate any advice on location, technique and length of antenna cable. Virgil Young N777VY (reserved) vwyoung(at)comcast.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clayton Henderson" <gsuit(at)eonet.net>
Subject: F601-Z fuel pump bracket
Date: Aug 24, 2003
If I plan on installing an O-360 with fixed pitch do I have to / should I build the F601-Z shown on RV-7 plans, DWG 19? I know this sounds lazy, but any fabrication time I can save is good.I think. Clayton Henderson RV7 Fuselage (Firewall) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: F601-Z fuel pump bracket
Date: Aug 23, 2003
If it's what I think it is, the F-601Z is a reinforcement plate for the Facet pump. If you're definitely going with carburetion, yeah, you'll need it. If you're definitely going with fuel injection, don't bother, since the high pressure fuel pump required for injection doesn't install there. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clayton Henderson" <gsuit(at)eonet.net> Subject: RV7-List: F601-Z fuel pump bracket > > If I plan on installing an O-360 with fixed pitch do I have to / should > I build the F601-Z shown on RV-7 plans, DWG 19? I know this sounds > lazy, but any fabrication time I can save is good.I think. > > Clayton Henderson > RV7 Fuselage (Firewall) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2003
Subject: paint
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
(not processed: message from valid local sender) The wing tips do they need to be primed? With that white coating on it looks like one could paint right over it. Scott Trask 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: paint
Date: Aug 24, 2003
You can paint right over it but your paint job will peel and come off before you are ready to paint it again. Your paint needs a good grip to hold on to. Here is how I did it. You will want to sand the wing tips ( and all fiberglass parts for that matter ) first with 100-200 grit sandpaper to get the shine off before cleaning well to remove any grease or wax then use something like smoothprime followed by more sanding with 330 grit to get a nice smooth finish and that will hold paint. The smoothprime prepares it for your primer that you will be using on the whole plane. Put 4-7 coats of smoothprime on before starting to sand it out. It dries pretty fast with thin coats applied. You want to get all those little pin holes in the fiberglass to disappear. Wear something for protection to keep the dust out of your lungs. Wear your oldest clothes. Suggest you do sanding outside cause the dust gets everywhere. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Trask" <sctrask(at)diisd.org> Subject: RV7-List: paint > > The wing tips do they need to be primed? With that white coating on it > looks like one could paint right over it. > Scott Trask 7A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: paint
Are yours not full of pin holes? By the time you've messed with them to get them looking good, you'll more than likely want to prime them. You could even use some filler/primer to get rid of any tiny holes. After spending all this time building a plane, a couple of extra hours priming the wingtips is pretty insignificant! Mark STILL fitting out my QB fuse. Waiting for my finish kit! N834ST (reserved) Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> sctrask(at)diisd.org 08/24/03 07:01PM >>> The wing tips do they need to be primed? With that white coating on it looks like one could paint right over it. Scott Trask 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OAITX(at)AOL.com
Date: Aug 25, 2003
Subject: Re: Dynon Questions
Dana: My name is Bob Lake and I am building a RV-7 in Austin, Tx. I am very, very interested in the Dynon system. Why did you decide on the Dynon? Cost? Do you have the smaller unit or the larger one? And what about autopilot? Etc., etc. I have finished the empennage and am starting on the wings on my RV-7 QB kit. Going with a slider canopy and am leaning toward an electric IFR panel on the pilots side with vacuum backup on the copilots' side. Thanks. Bob Lake 512 251-2277 512 251-7707 FAX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Date: Aug 25, 2003
Subject: Re: paint
As an experienced painter of fiberglass and metal I can tell you the answer is yes. The white material is gel coat. On boats you can get away with it because it is thicker, however, on our planes it is used as a filler and mold release. You must sand it until it is dull. Use a 400 grit paper or scotchbrite pad. You do not want to sand through the gel coat, if you do just add a thicker layer of primer. You may also like to fair the joint between the tip and the metal surface to make it smoother. If you choose this route then scuff the metal, lay a strip or two of tape to build up the surface then sand down to the thickness of the tape. Remove the tape before it cures and lightly sand to a smooth transition. While sanding the tip add several wide layers of tape to protect the metal surface while sanding. Begin sanding with 80 grit and work your way up to 600. Oh, I suggest the marine grade of polyester filler for the transition but automotive grades work as well. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2003
From: slipstream13(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Dynon Questions
I've been keeping an eye on these little beauties, and fully intend to install at least one into my plane when that time comes. I'm also very interested in their pitot tube, which has additional AOA functions. As of the last time I spoke to them (Sun N Fun), it wasn't heated. Has there been any news on that? Brooks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2003
From: slipstream13(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Dynon Questions
I've been keeping an eye on these little beauties, and fully intend to install at least one into my plane when that time comes. I'm also very interested in their pitot tube, which has additional AOA functions. As of the last time I spoke to them (Sun N Fun), it wasn't heated. Has there been any news on that? Brooks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Throttle and Mixture Cables
Date: Aug 25, 2003
Would someone check their two cables and tell me if both or just the mixture cable has two star lock washers between the lower end nuts that hold the cable to the firewall. Thanks. ( My throttle cable has one and mixture has two ) Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2003
Subject: [ George McNutt ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: George McNutt Subject: Simple Carb Heat Muff http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gmcnutt@intergate.ca.08.30.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2003
Subject: [ Dan Krueger ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dan Krueger Subject: Canopy Water Seal http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pndkrueg@mchsi.com.08.30.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Seat Belt and Shoulder Harness
Date: Sep 02, 2003
I am looking at Van's and others for Seat Belts and Harnesses. Nothing in archives about the Tuf Tow belt vendor that Vans lists in the catalog. Anyone had good service with Tuf Tow? Others? Indiana Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , ,
Subject: Fellow RV builders I need your input/help
Date: Sep 02, 2003
Fellow RV-7/8/9/10 builders, I need to get some feedback from all of you RV7/8/9/10 builders out there. As some of you know I am in process of developing innovative solutions to help RV builders (http://www.experimentalaero.com/ )I am getting final pricing on the Modular Tie Down System (MTDS-1) and I need feedback on pricing. The MTDS-1 (http://www.experimentalaero.com/MTDS-1.htm) is a tie down system that uses custom quick release pins and flush mount anchors in the floor, side and back of the baggage bay. With multiple anchor points the owner can configure the tie downs to fit their cargo needs. Since the anchors are flush, the unused anchor points won't interfere with the cargo, boxes can sit flush on the floor and softer baggage won't get hung up. Installation is quick and easy, no special tools required. The homebuilt/experimental market doesn't command high volumes. In tern it is very difficult to get volume discounts from vendors. Which means the higher cost gets passed to the customer. In order for a product to be successful it must fulfill a need and be priced right. I need to get an understanding from fellow builders and possible customers how much you would pay for the MTDS-1. I plan on offering it as single quick release pins, single flush anchors, webbing and buckles. I believe the common configuration would be two strap assemblies (webbing/buckle with two release pins) and 6 anchors. This system would cost between $75-100. What is the maximum amount you would pay for this functionality. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 02, 2003
Subject: Re: Seat Belt and Shoulder Harness
I have Hooker Harnesses and Love them! -Mike Kraus N223RV - RV-4 - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Belt and Shoulder Harness
Date: Sep 03, 2003
Larry, If you are going to do any aerobatics at all may I suggest you try Hooker Harnesses. Additionally, if you plan to ever have a sudden stop may I firmly recommend a 5 point harness. The central point is very important to prevent "submarining". This is you slipping under the seat belt of a 4 point harness and suffering ankle injury as your feet slide into the firewall, or groin injury as your favourite bits of anatomy are impaled on the stick. This data comes from some analysis of otherwise survivable crashes in Australia. I just took delivery of my 5 point harness from Hooker and must say its very robust looking, and far tougher than what I see in Piper and Cessna products. The price was very competitive against all but the very flimsy airline passenger seat style of belts, and certainly cheaper than anything I could get in Australia. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- Subject: RV7-List: Seat Belt and Shoulder Harness I am looking at Van's and others for Seat Belts and Harnesses. Nothing in archives about the Tuf Tow belt vendor that Vans lists in the catalog. Anyone had good service with Tuf Tow? Others? Indiana Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: 5 point seat belts.
Date: Sep 02, 2003
Can anyone comment on installing 5 point seat harness if floors are pop riveted down already per the building manual? Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 02, 2003
Subject: Re: Seat Belt and Shoulder Harness
Myself------ > I have Hooker Harnesses and Love them! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 5 point seat belts.
From: Lynwood Stagg <woody6(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2003
RE:Pop riveted floors: Get the 5 point kit from vans (1 kit does both belts) 5th point goes under seat pans, which screw down. No need to go into the pop-riveted section Woody Stagg 7 finish kit Hooker 5 points -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: 5 point seat belts.
Date: Sep 03, 2003
Thanks Woody with your response. That is just what I was looking for. Glad you been there and done that. Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynwood Stagg" <woody6(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: 5 point seat belts. > > > RE:Pop riveted floors: > > Get the 5 point kit from vans (1 kit does both belts) > > 5th point goes under seat pans, which screw down. No need to go into the > pop-riveted section > > Woody Stagg > 7 finish kit > Hooker 5 points > > -- > Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2003
Subject: [ Bob Olds ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bob Olds Subject: How to build cheap strobe/tail wingtip lights http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Oldsfolks@aol.com.09.03.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2003
Subject: fuel pumps & luggage area
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
RV6 (not processed: message from valid local sender) Checking for leaks. Is there any way to check for leaks other than with gas, that wouldn't harm the fuel pumps, before I actually attach the wings? ( have return fuel lines) Plexiglas mishap this evening. It's enough to make a man sick. Plexiglas is all installed on a tip-up. I noticed I had missed a few rivet on one side of the 774 top skin. So I drove the rivets. Afterwards I noticed little hairline cracks around every screw on the roll bar over the luggage area. Any suggestions on resolving this fiasco? What are my options? leave as is? drill and tap new holes? replace the whole piece over the luggage area? I guess I'll get over this mishap, but I'd appreciate any suggestions. Gotta cry on somebody's shoulders. Scott Trask 7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Belt and Shoulder Harness
Date: Sep 07, 2003
Thanks Dean. That looks like way to go. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OAITX(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 10, 2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Garmin 430/GTX 327/GMA 340 FOR SALE REPLY
Jeff: I am very interested in the radio stack. I am building a -7 Quick Build and am into the fuselage now. I just need a little time to see where everything falls in place, etc. How about taking my Cessna 140......I've been telling everyone that it is not really a 140, but my avionics package in my RV. Bob Lake RV-7 QB Austin, Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OAITX(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 10, 2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Garmin 430/GTX 327/GMA 340 FOR SALE REPLY Bob Lake
Jeff: Forgot to ask you........do you have an instrument panel layout that you were going to use? Thanks Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2003
From: Jeff Cook <jctv4(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Garmin 430/GTX 327/GMA 340 FOR SALE REPLY
Bob, Your 140 sounds tempting, I am looking for another way to get my aviation fix,but I have "0" tail dragger time and live in Florida. Is it fabric or aluminum wings? Jeff OAITX(at)AOL.com wrote: Jeff: I am very interested in the radio stack. I am building a -7 Quick Build and am into the fuselage now. I just need a little time to see where everything falls in place, etc. How about taking my Cessna 140......I've been telling everyone that it is not really a 140, but my avionics package in my RV. Bob Lake RV-7 QB Austin, Tx --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OAITX(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 10, 2003
Subject: Re: Fwd: Garmin 430/GTX 327/GMA 340 FOR SALE REPLY
Jeff: Hope you didn't misunderstand that it would be an even trade.......not quite. I joke with everybody (at flyins, etc.) that the 140 is really my avionics package........with a little left over. The 140 should be in the range of $20,000 to $22,000. Bob In a message dated 9/10/2003 3:15:50 PM Central Daylight Time, jctv4(at)yahoo.com writes: > > Bob, > > Your 140 sounds tempting, I am looking for another way to get my aviation > fix,but I have "0" tail dragger time and live in Florida. > > Is it fabric or aluminum wings? > > Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2003
Subject: [ Pat Long ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Pat Long Subject: Cracks in Wood Prop Hub Bore http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/PGLong@aol.com.09.13.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2003
Subject: [ John McMahon ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: John McMahon Subject: Plenum http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv6@earthlink.net.09.13.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Sep 15, 2003
Subject: New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics...
Dear Listers, I will be installing a new SPAM and virus blocking appliance this evening or tomorrow. The installation will involve some changes in the Matronics DNS MX records, and will impact how incoming email is handled. While I expect these changes to be transparent to all of the List subscribers, things might go differently... ;-) The Lists get bombarded with tons of SPAM messages and viruses each day and fortunately my custom filters have been extremely effective at filtering most of this from redistribution. Its time to move to the next level of technology, however, and this SPAM and Virus filtering appliance seems like an excellent solution. I will post a follow up message later in the week when things have stabilized and I have some filter statistics to share. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2003
Subject: [ Ken Brooks ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ken Brooks Subject: Remote Magnetometer Shelf and CPU Mount for Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS-One in RV-8 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kenbrooks@charter.com.09.20.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting Problems
For Some Members...? Dear Listers, Matronics is now utilizing a SPAM filter appliance to filter out the excessive amounts of inappropriate email that bombards the Email List Forums each day. The filter is reporting that over 66% of the email messages sent to Matronics email destinations are of SPAM content and reviewing the logfiles, it would appear to be true. That is indeed great! While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new appliance, I am suspecting that a few legitimate email List posts are being blocked as too, although I can't confirm this. It is difficult to churn through the logfiles looking though thousands of blocked email messages trying to determine if any legitimate List posts were blocked. If you suspect that your posts are accidently being blocked by the SPAM filter appliance, I have created a new Trouble Report web page that will allow you to report your problems directly to me without having to use email. If the SPAM filter is blocking your email address for some reason, then its likely that I wouldn't be able to receive your direct email regarding difficulty in posting. The web form bypasses the incoming email and directs your message directly to me. Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you are having including any bounced email or email error messages that you may have received back in regard to your posts to the lists. The more information I have about the email you are sending and what the errors you are receiving, the better chance I'll have in hunting down the problem. The Trouble Report Website URL is: http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report/ I apologize for any inconvenience the SPAM filter may be causing you. I will work toward resolving your issues as quickly as possible. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
"Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com"
Subject: glass cockpits
Date: Sep 24, 2003
OK list I need to get in contact with some one that has one of these beautiful glass cockpits that is IFR approved to get the skinny on the appropriate faa stuff one has to do. Thank you Noel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: glass cockpits
Date: Sep 24, 2003
http://images.rvproject.com/IFR_Equipment.pdf That document is at least a start. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> Com" ; "Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com" Subject: RV7-List: glass cockpits > > OK list I need to get in contact with some one that has one of these > beautiful glass cockpits that is IFR approved to get the skinny on the > appropriate faa stuff one has to do. Thank you > > Noel > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
"Rv9-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv8-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com"
Subject: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 25, 2003
SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly IFR. I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, then please let me know. Sincerely, Noel Simmons ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS & IFR
Noel, I think your statement is not necessarily correct... Here's something worth a read... http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/discus/messages/1/54.html?1057508911 I'd like to hope the guys at BMA have been unbiased in their research on the subject. Mark RV-7 QB (With an EFIS 1!) Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> noel(at)blueskyaviation.net 09/25/03 01:28PM >>> It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly IFR. I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, then please let me know. Sincerely, Noel Simmons http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Hedrington, Bret" <bhedrington(at)powersentry.com>
I've been looking at this issue...Want Glass cockpit... If anyone finds a DAR that will sign off...I'd fly them up here... What I've been faced with is like Cirrus did in their IFR birds...Place the meatballs in the dash as a backup for the glass.. You then have the regular gyros there and the FAA/DAR can him and haw about the other stuff all they want. But the panel meets the requirement without the Glass and should be able to go IFR... Only problem...Is $'s....It is not cheap to do this...And room on the dash is another possible concern. Bret N997RV -----Original Message----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons [mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net] Com; Rv7-List@Matronics. Com; Rv6-List@Matronics. Com Subject: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly IFR. I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, then please let me know. Sincerely, Noel Simmons ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Subject: Re: EFIS & IFR
I have heard the same story many times, guys. Basically the FAA wants to see the 'tried and true used thru and thru'. - - - - However, there are a few solid state items readily at hand thru ACS that have been certified for IFR use, look thru the catalog. Also, start checking out the general info on the AGATE program and you'll probably conclude like I have that the electro-mechanical gyros are going to be relics quite soon: because sooo many Co.s are getting into the Solid state groove ( and trying to make a good buck at the front corner as this technology seeps into the main). Feedback AO? Similar topic: anyone know how/where I can get hold of a basic primer on gyroscope repair(s)?????With lots of time and cash shortage there have GOT to be a lot of gyros that we can return to active ( and reliable ) service. Col Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Bull shit! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> Com" ; "Rv8-List(at)Matronics. Com" ; "Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" ; "Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com" Subject: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR > > It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative > and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not > sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to > positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or > equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA > positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly > IFR. > > I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is > no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in > experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR > who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, > then please let me know. > > > Sincerely, > > Noel Simmons > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OAITX(at)AOL.com
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Subject: Instruments for IFR
I, too, would like to find out what is real and what is not.....can anyone quote or reference the regulations? I don't care what an individual DAR says.......let's go to the regulations. Bob Lake RV-7 QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments for IFR
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Get out the good old FARs. Part 91.205 is pretty clear: ----------------- (d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required: (1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section. (2) Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used. (3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft: (i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in Sec. 121.305(j) of this chapter; and (ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 80 degrees of pitch and 120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with Sec. 29.1303(g) of this chapter. (4) Slip-skid indicator. (5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure. (6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation. (7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity. (8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon). (9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). ----------------- Nobody is going to "pull you over" for flying IFR with an EFIS that you believe satisifies these requirements but they may not believe does. It's my personal interpretation, and that of many others I've spoken to about this, that the Dynon satisfies (3), (4), (5), (6), (8), and (9). Of course I'm backing the Dynon up with conventional instruments (airspeed, altimeter, VSI, turn coordinator, compass) for redundancy just to feel a bit safer in the matter. But I have no doubt that my "no-AI, no-DG" panel satisfies IFR equipment requirements. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <OAITX(at)AOL.com> Subject: RV7-List: Instruments for IFR > > I, too, would like to find out what is real and what is not.....can anyone > quote or reference the regulations? > I don't care what an individual DAR says.......let's go to the regulations. > Bob Lake RV-7 QB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Subject: EFIS & IFR
I AM GOING WITH THE DYNON UNIT AND NO GYRO BACK-UP HOPEFULLY THE FSDO WILL APPROVE THIS CONFIGURATION, ANY COMMENTS"Hedrington, Bret" wrote: > >I've been looking at this issue...Want Glass cockpit... > >If anyone finds a DAR that will sign off...I'd fly them up here... > >What I've been faced with is like Cirrus did in their IFR birds...Place the meatballs in the dash as a backup for the glass.. > >You then have the regular gyros there and the FAA/DAR can him and haw about the other stuff all they want. But the panel meets the requirement without the Glass and should be able to go IFR... > >Only problem...Is $'s....It is not cheap to do this...And room on the dash is another possible concern. > >Bret >N997RV > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons [mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net] >To: Rv-List@Matronics. Com; Rv9-List@Matronics. Com; Rv8-List@Matronics. >Com; Rv7-List@Matronics. Com; Rv6-List@Matronics. Com >Subject: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR > > >It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative >and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not >sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to >positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or >equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA >positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly >IFR. > >I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is >no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in >experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR >who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, >then please let me know. > > >Sincerely, > >Noel Simmons > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: "Hedrington, Bret" <bhedrington(at)powersentry.com>
I'm not arguing the FAR's..... But the argue is going to be with the DAR...They don't read the regs I think...But they have their own opinion The DAR's I've talked to say that they will not let a experimental glass cockpit go for IFR...But maybe in the next year or so I can convince them of the errors in their way.... Bret N997RV -----Original Message----- From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com [mailto:Sargentclt(at)cs.com] Subject: RE: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR I AM GOING WITH THE DYNON UNIT AND NO GYRO BACK-UP HOPEFULLY THE FSDO WILL APPROVE THIS CONFIGURATION, ANY COMMENTS"Hedrington, Bret" wrote: > >I've been looking at this issue...Want Glass cockpit... > >If anyone finds a DAR that will sign off...I'd fly them up here... > >What I've been faced with is like Cirrus did in their IFR birds...Place the meatballs in the dash as a backup for the glass.. > >You then have the regular gyros there and the FAA/DAR can him and haw about the other stuff all they want. But the panel meets the requirement without the Glass and should be able to go IFR... > >Only problem...Is $'s....It is not cheap to do this...And room on the dash is another possible concern. > >Bret >N997RV > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons [mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net] >To: Rv-List@Matronics. Com; Rv9-List@Matronics. Com; Rv8-List@Matronics. >Com; Rv7-List@Matronics. Com; Rv6-List@Matronics. Com >Subject: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR > > >It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative >and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not >sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to >positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or >equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA >positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly >IFR. > >I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is >no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in >experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR >who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, >then please let me know. > > >Sincerely, > >Noel Simmons > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Subject: Re: EFIS & IFR
From: Jerry Carter <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
The DAR has nothing to say about whether your ship is IFR. Again,your operating limitations will state that your aircraft is to be operated day only, VFR unless equipped for night and\or IFR operation. You could, for example, have your aircraft inspected, fly off the test period and then decide to upgrade the avionics to IFR. YOU are responsible for meeting the requirements for IFR operation. You would only have to re-enter phase one testing for a period of time, determined by you and documented in your log book. You will not need another inspection....ever! Jerry Carter RV-8A 305 hrs On Friday, September 26, 2003, at 01:57 PM, Hedrington, Bret wrote: > > > I'm not arguing the FAR's..... > > But the argue is going to be with the DAR...They don't read the regs I > think...But they have their own opinion > > The DAR's I've talked to say that they will not let a experimental > glass cockpit go for IFR...But maybe in the next year or so I can > convince them of the errors in their way.... > > > Bret > N997RV > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com [mailto:Sargentclt(at)cs.com] > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR > > > I AM GOING WITH THE DYNON UNIT AND NO GYRO BACK-UP HOPEFULLY THE FSDO > WILL APPROVE THIS CONFIGURATION, ANY COMMENTS"Hedrington, Bret" > wrote: > >> >> >> I've been looking at this issue...Want Glass cockpit... >> >> If anyone finds a DAR that will sign off...I'd fly them up here... >> >> What I've been faced with is like Cirrus did in their IFR >> birds...Place the meatballs in the dash as a backup for the glass..


February 04, 2003 - September 26, 2003

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