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RV7-Archive.digest.vol-ae
September 26, 2003 - March 06, 2004

>> >> You then have the regular gyros there and the FAA/DAR can him and haw >> about the other stuff all they want. But the panel meets the >> requirement without the Glass and should be able to go IFR... >> >> Only problem...Is $'s....It is not cheap to do this...And room on the >> dash is another possible concern. >> >> Bret >> N997RV >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons [mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net] >> To: Rv-List@Matronics. Com; Rv9-List@Matronics. Com; >> Rv8-List@Matronics. >> Com; Rv7-List@Matronics. Com; Rv6-List@Matronics. Com >> Subject: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR >> >> >> >> >> It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA >> representative >> and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is >> not >> sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs >> to >> positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or >> equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA >> positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you >> cannot fly >> IFR. >> >> I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and >> there is >> no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in >> experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA >> inspector/DAR >> who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR >> use, >> then please let me know. >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Noel Simmons >> >> > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Subject: EFIS & IFR
From: Jerry Carter <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Begin forwarded message: > From: Jerry Carter <rv8apilot(at)mac.com> > Date: Thu Sep 25, 2003 8:40:01 PM US/Central > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR > > > On Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 12:28 PM, Noel & Yoshie Simmons > wrote: > >> >> >> It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA >> representative >> and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is >> not >> sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs >> to >> positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or >> equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the >> FAA >> positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you >> cannot fly >> IFR. >> > This is not correct. You can have your plane inspected by the DAR as a > VFR ship, then later go back and install IFR avionics and certify it > YOURSELF, without ever getting another inspection. If you have > completed phase one testing, you will have to re-enter phase one after > a "major change," but this does not require another visit by the DAR. > Your operating limitations will state that your aircraft is approved > for day, VFR only UNLESS it is equiped for night and\or IFR > operations. > > Jerry Carter > RV-8A > 305 hrs > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: EFIS
Date: Sep 27, 2003
It appears that Jerry may be legally flying under IFRs, while Bret might be "doing the right thing" - seeking a DAR's permission (no doubt he'll be armed with all of the great input from this discussion!). "To each their own." My point is that when it comes to doubts about government regulations, there are two options: seek permission up front, or forgiveness if you're challenged by authorities. I have significant (career) experience trying both. IMO, there's no right or wrong answer to the question, "should I push the system or comply to questionable interpretation to the 'rules'?" Just assess the consequences of both and pick a path. For those that are considering Jerry's position (I'm leaning that way): I imagine that one could get into an ugly legal battle if they're "caught" in the wrong place/time. Remember Bob Hoover's medical revocation and subsequent legal mess? It was eventually decided in his favor, but what did it take? He had Phil Boyer and Tom Poberezny and the full weight of their respective organizations in his corner. We probably wouldn't be that fortunate. If you get caught/challenged, it may require more than a copy of the FARs to defend your position. If a DAR challenges you on the ramp, the appropriate mix of knowledge, assertiveness and respect will go a long way to peacefully resolving such a confrontation (which is really unlikely unless you wreck the plane). Unsolicited advice: If that should happen, don't hand over the ignition key, airworthiness certificate, or your license/medical unless someone has a gun pointed at your head! I think this discussion thread has been interesting - thanks! John Burns, Albuquerque 7A QB (presently going slow) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: EFIS
From: Jerry Carter <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
As long as we live in a country governed by the rule of law (as opposed to the Taliban or something similar), I will take my chances doing what is legal. I don't believe that it is "pushing the system" if one simply complies with what is written in black and white for all of us. Jerry Carter On Saturday, September 27, 2003, at 03:25 AM, jgburns wrote: > > It appears that Jerry may be legally flying under IFRs, while Bret > might be "doing the right thing" - seeking a DAR's permission (no > doubt he'll be armed with all of the great input from this > discussion!). > > "To each their own." > > My point is that when it comes to doubts about government regulations, > there are two options: seek permission up front, or forgiveness if > you're challenged by authorities. I have significant (career) > experience trying both. IMO, there's no right or wrong answer to the > question, "should I push the system or comply to questionable > interpretation to the 'rules'?" Just assess the consequences of both > and pick a path. > > For those that are considering Jerry's position (I'm leaning that way): > I imagine that one could get into an ugly legal battle if they're > "caught" in the wrong place/time. Remember Bob Hoover's medical > revocation and subsequent legal mess? It was eventually decided in > his favor, but what did it take? He had Phil Boyer and Tom Poberezny > and the full weight of their respective organizations in his corner. > We probably wouldn't be that fortunate. > > If you get caught/challenged, it may require more than a copy of the > FARs to defend your position. If a DAR challenges you on the ramp, the > appropriate mix of knowledge, assertiveness and respect will go a long > way to peacefully resolving such a confrontation (which is really > unlikely unless you wreck the plane). Unsolicited advice: If that > should happen, don't hand over the ignition key, airworthiness > certificate, or your license/medical unless someone has a gun pointed > at your head! > > I think this discussion thread has been interesting - thanks! > > John Burns, Albuquerque > 7A QB (presently going slow) > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> Subject: Corrosion Inside Fuel Tank Cap http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.27.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Instruments for IFR
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Check out these regulations which are the chain of regs applicable to IFR experimental planes. AC 20.27 Special Airworthiness Certificates Order 8130.2, limitations on experimentals FAR part 91.205, esp d. mandatory instruments. AC 90.94 para 3c, GPS and nav systems. FAR Part 23.1303 US IFR instruments. 23.1321 instrument layout 23.1322 ASI systems 23.1325 static pressure systems 23.1326 pitot heat indicator 23.1327 magnetic direction indicator 23.1331 instrument power sources 23.1337 engine instrument system 23.1545 airspeed indicator 23.1547 compass placard 23.1549 powerplant instrument arcs FAR 91.411 Altimeter test procedures FAR 43 Appdx E Altimeter test procedures FAR 43 Appdx D Annual Inspection AC90.89A Flight Testing Handbook David A Francis, Canberra, Australia VH-ZEE -----Original Message----- From: OAITX(at)AOL.com [mailto:OAITX(at)AOL.com] Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2003 00:12 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Instruments for IFR I, too, would like to find out what is real and what is not.....can anyone quote or reference the regulations? I don't care what an individual DAR says.......let's go to the regulations. Bob Lake RV-7 QB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> Subject: Rivet-gun double off-set holder for one hand operation. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.28.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , ,
Subject: New Dimpling Tool (DRDT-1) shipping soon
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Fellow RV Builders, I have developed a new dimpling tool (DRDT-1) that is easier, faster, quieter, and safer (on the skins) then any other tool offered by existing aircraft tool suppliers. I have designed it to accommodate all the skins used in a RV construction including the prebent leading and trailing edge skins. It has been designed to accommodate the larger skins used in the RV-10. Please visit ExperimentalAero at www.experimentalaero.com. On this website you will also find innovative tools and components under development for your experimental aircraft project. Paul Merems ExperimentalAero ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , ,
Subject: Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Fellow builders. Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1. This has caused some confusion and has been correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf Sorry for the error. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: Canopy Frame Fit
I am building an RV-7 and I was wondering how close I need to be on the canopy frame fit. Vans says 1/16 inch inside all the way around. I am able to get 1/16" on all the areas, but on the back area arc piece, it is supposed to be 1/16" lower than the back top skin. The best I can get is about even on the left side and 1/8" low on the right side. It seems no matter what I do, I cannot get it better than this without severely throwing off all the other dimensions. Will I be able to compensate for this mismatch, or will it be an issue? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location
I'm looking to mount my intercom Jacks and was wondering where others put theirs and whether the liked the location or not. I have seen some with them mounted on the top of the bulkhead that supports the seat backs above the flap motor, but I think this would be more in the way when you wanted to reach back for something. Anyone have an opinion on the best location? Thanks -Mike K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location
Mike, I was thinking of putting mine on the underside of the fuselage lip by the panel (just forward of the roll over frame). They'll be out of sight, and it's not a rental plane, so it's not as if you'll be unplugging your headset all the time. I have also seen one where the jacks were back near the baggage bulkhead which might work (keeps the wire out of the way). We should mess around with a headset when we're down the hangar next. I'll be there Sunday for sure. Mark Taylor RV7 QB (going rather slowly) Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> N223RV(at)AOL.com 10/01/03 10:20PM >>> I'm looking to mount my intercom Jacks and was wondering where others put theirs and whether the liked the location or not. I have seen some with them mounted on the top of the bulkhead that supports the seat backs above the flap motor, but I think this would be more in the way when you wanted to reach back for something. Anyone have an opinion on the best location? Thanks -Mike K http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OAITX(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Subject: Re: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location REPLY
Mike K.... As for the mike jack locations.........I am also building a RV-7 and I plan on putting the jacks just under the left arm of the pilot (just behind him/her) and under the right arm of the copilot. Then the pilot/copilot will have the cord/wire just under their arms and out of the way. After landing, just move your arm a bit and put the jeadset on the baggage shelf behind you. Bob Lake Austin, Tx RV-7 QB Wings and fuselage stage Mike K.... As for the mike jack locations.........I am also building a RV-7=20and I plan on putting the jacks just under the left arm of the pilot (just behind him/her) and under the right arm of the copilot. Then the pilot/copilot will have the cord/wire just under their arms and out of the way. After landing, just move your arm a bit and put the jeadset on the baggage shelf behind you. Bob Lake Austin, Tx RV-7 QB Wings and fuselage stage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Subject: Re: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
(not processed: message from valid local sender) Hi Jack I'm going to place them on the 705 channel right between pilot and passenger. Scott Trask 7a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: [ Jerry Calvert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jerry Calvert Subject: Oil Door http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv6@cox.net.10.04.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: air drills for sale
Date: Oct 07, 2003
I put 3 of my air drills up for sale on ebay. Check 'em out if you're in the market for an air drill. They all work fine. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=apoiuyt brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: dimpling
Date: Oct 10, 2003
I just received my RV-7 Empennage and I have some questions that the list might be able to answer. It's been eleven years since I built an RV and I realize that things could be done differently now. 1. Do you guys drill out the pre-punched holes or just dimple them the way they are. 2. Do you leave the blue cellophane on the skins while dimpling. 3. Who won the primer war. I started my RV4 kit with zinc chromate, graduated to Variprime and haven't paid that much attention to what everyone is doing now. Thanks Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Franz Fux" <franz(at)lastfrontierheli.com>
Subject: dimpling
Date: Oct 12, 2003
Hi Jim, the prepunched holes are slightly undersized and need to be drilled out for the rivets to fit properly. Keep the blue stuff on until final assembly. Your dimples will look nicer and without a ring around it. Primer is defiantly your own choice, some do some don't, those who do do it in many different ways,Godd luck, Franz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Nolan Subject: RV7-List: dimpling I just received my RV-7 Empennage and I have some questions that the list might be able to answer. It's been eleven years since I built an RV and I realize that things could be done differently now. 1. Do you guys drill out the pre-punched holes or just dimple them the way they are. 2. Do you leave the blue cellophane on the skins while dimpling. 3. Who won the primer war. I started my RV4 kit with zinc chromate, graduated to Variprime and haven't paid that much attention to what everyone is doing now. Thanks Jim Nolan N444JN --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2003
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: MIL-T-43435B Lacing Cord at a 25% Cost Savings
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com I have access to "Brand New" (in original packaging) MIL-T-43435B Lacing Cord, Type 2 (Polyester / Hi Temp), Finish C (Synthetic Rubber or Elastomer, NOT Waxed), Size 3 (50 lb min strength; 0.085" wide x 0.014" thick). This Cord is used extensively by avionic shops and airframe manufacturers to tie individual electrical wires into bundles for their avionics, etc. * Least expensive way to make wire bundles. * Will not cut into wires like Dental Floss used by some Builders, as it is "flat". * Higher Temp rating (-73 Deg C to 177 Deg C) than Type 1 (-55 Deg C to 121 Deg C) that is sold by Aircraft Spruce and Chief Aircraft for $21 per Spool. * Each Spool contains 500 yards of White or Blue Polyester Cord. (Share with other Builders.) * Excellent "Knot" retention. * See: www.versatileindustrial.com/gudebrod.html for additional info / pictures. * Will sell for $15 per Spool - includes shipping in the US. If interested E-Mail me off line at - gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com Video Attachment Garey Wittich has sent you a video. Please go to http://mediaframe.yahoo.com/mf/spotlife/o?.auth=J1X2HgMJ9RN8GSoUSNHJhA--&id= document.Compose.To.focus(); document.Compose.ATT.value = to view the video. __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: dimpling, priming and cellophane
Date: Oct 13, 2003
Thanks to all who sent me e-mails on my questions. Consensus is, don't leave the blue cellophane on. The primer War is still raging, and drill the holes to size before you dimple. Thanks again Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Tools
Date: Oct 16, 2003
I checked the archives and read all there is about air drills and rivet guns. I was hoping I could pick your brains about this. Drills: Is a reversable drill just nice to have or does it really come in handy? Is there a minimum RPM that you have looked for? Rivet Guns: It seems the general concensus on the archives is that a 2X or 3X will work, especially on the Quick build type kits. Is there a reason to lean towards one type or the other? Do the Sioux type (higher end) models really make a difference? I don't want to spend a fortune on tools, but would rather get a good tool once then to buy several over time. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance, John Brunke ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Tools
Date: Oct 17, 2003
John, My advice on tools - don't try to save money, just buy the best. An RV has about 15000 hoes to drill and rivets to pound. Cheap tools are harder to use, cause damage, hurt your hands (tendonitis and repetition strain) and are not value for money. Rivet guns - a 3X is bigger and heavier and therefore more stable and easier to use than a 2X that will jump around more,, but will be acceptable. Your choice. A 4X is so big and heavy as to be unusable. Drills - for thin sheet metal a high rpm is needed for the neatest round holes, for heavier stuff like spars and 1/8 angle slower revs are needed. A teasing trigger is essential on any drill. My best is a 5000rpm Shinano with teasing trigger. Recommended. My cheap 1900rpm is good for heavy stuff but has a coarse and hard to use trigger. I should have paid more to get a teasing trigger slow drill. Reversing is not at all useful, I rarely use the feature on my slow drill. Get an electric screwdriver to deal with the many screws in the fuselage. It is wise to spend a fortune on tools, you will have a better plane and fewer hand injuries. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net [mailto:jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net] Sent: Friday, 17 October 2003 09:07 To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Tools I checked the archives and read all there is about air drills and rivet guns. I was hoping I could pick your brains about this. Drills: Is a reversable drill just nice to have or does it really come in handy? Is there a minimum RPM that you have looked for? Rivet Guns: It seems the general concensus on the archives is that a 2X or 3X will work, especially on the Quick build type kits. Is there a reason to lean towards one type or the other? Do the Sioux type (higher end) models really make a difference? I don't want to spend a fortune on tools, but would rather get a good tool once then to buy several over time. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Taylor" <rv7(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Tools
Date: Oct 16, 2003
John, I'm not too far into my kit but I will share my experience. I bought a reversible drill from Harbor Freight and it was working fine. I have yet to use the reversible mode so I personally think it's just nice to have. Maybe others can comment on the reversible part. I went to the Sportair workshop recently and played a little with a Sioux drill. There is a huge difference between the two. The Sioux drill is much lighter and has extremely good trigger control. The teasing trigger is awesome. Since I'm building an RV-6A and don't have all of the nice pilot holes that the -7 and -9 have I felt I needed a good drill. I then bought the Sioux 3600 rpm (model 1412) non-reversible drill from The Yard for $189.00 (retails for $225 at Avery) and have not regretted it. I need to be thrifty when it comes to buying things but I feel like I got my moneys worth. Just my 02 cents. -David Taylor Warner Robins, GA RV-6A Empennage/Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RV7-List: Tools > > I checked the archives and read all there is about air drills and rivet guns. I was hoping I could pick your brains about this. > > Drills: Is a reversable drill just nice to have or does it really come in handy? Is there a minimum RPM that you have looked for? > > Rivet Guns: It seems the general concensus on the archives is that a 2X or 3X will work, especially on the > Quick build type kits. Is there a reason to lean towards one > type or the other? > Do the Sioux type (higher end) models really make a difference? > > I don't want to spend a fortune on tools, but would rather get a good tool once then to buy several over time. > > I would appreciate any advice. > > Thanks in advance, > John Brunke > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2003
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tools
I am almost finished with a -7. (Whatever that means). But the most handy drill IMHO is a Makita or similar rechargable. I keep two battery drills nearby. The bits change out so quickly. A large amount of heavy drilling is just not required. I did use my air drill to upsize the riv holes on those repetitive jobs. cary rhodes --- Dana Overall wrote: > > > John, most people on this list will swear by the > tools they have in their > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 17, 2003
Subject: Re: Tools: Bench-Top Dimpler-Riveter
Am about to start the wings dimpling and have this vision of a bench dimpler with a foot-switch activation, to either make one or find one. Comments from the group would be welcomed. Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com>
Subject: Re: Tools: Bench-Top Dimpler-Riveter
Date: Oct 17, 2003
Look in the archives. Several people have come up with good designs! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gkb5577(at)AOL.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Tools: Bench-Top Dimpler-Riveter > > Am about to start the wings dimpling and have this vision of a bench > dimpler with a foot-switch activation, to either make one or find one. > Comments from the group would be welcomed. Geoff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: Tools
Date: Oct 18, 2003
My experience: I have had no need so far for reversible drill. Despite all the talk about high speed being critical, I have found that my 18v DeWalt battery drill does just fine for most things, and produces holes and countersinks that look just as good as those made with my 6,000 rpm Dotco. It also uses a very tiny percentage of the energy to run that the air drill requires. I had 3 rivet guns; used CP 2x, used 3x Sioux, used 6x unknown brand. Trigger on the 6x is outstanding, but the gun is bigger and heavier. I decided to pony up for a new Sioux 2x from Avery, to get a better trigger. After getting it, I was not impressed at all with its much-ballyhoooed trigger; it's no better than the 2x and 3x I already had. I am hoping it will loosen/smooth up with more use. I see no difference between a 2x with more pressure and a 3x with a bit less pressure. I'd recommend the 2x just because it's a little smaller and lighter. For true gun control, get yourself a diaphragm-type pressure regulator. The rotating dial types are a useless waste of money. The imported kind with the screw-down knob is better than the rotating dial type, but both are really just FLOW regulators, not pressure regulators. So, every time you let off the trigger, the next time you open it, you have a burst of full tank pressure as the built-up pressure bleeds off. See http://brian76.mystarband.net/tools.htm for more details. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net Subject: RV7-List: Tools I checked the archives and read all there is about air drills and rivet guns. I was hoping I could pick your brains about this. Drills: Is a reversable drill just nice to have or does it really come in handy? Is there a minimum RPM that you have looked for? Rivet Guns: It seems the general concensus on the archives is that a 2X or 3X will work, especially on the Quick build type kits. Is there a reason to lean towards one type or the other? Do the Sioux type (higher end) models really make a difference? I don't want to spend a fortune on tools, but would rather get a good tool once then to buy several over time. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance, John Brunke --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tools
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Date: Oct 18, 2003
On Sat, 2003-10-18 at 08:17, Brian Meyette wrote: > I see no difference between a 2x with > more pressure and a 3x with a bit less pressure. I'd recommend the 2x just > because it's a little smaller and lighter. Keep in mind that the ideal way to set a rivet (in a perfect world) would be *one* hit, just hard enough to set the rivet to it's proper driven state. The more you hit the rivet, the harder the metal in it gets; if you were to set it with a thousand light hits you'd have a rock hard, brittle rivet in that hole, even if it looked really pretty and properly set on the outside. The moral of the story is, the less hits on the rivet the better. So go with a 3x if you can't tell the difference anyway, it gives "bigger hits" and typically will take less of them to set a given rivet than a 2x. Is it significant? Maybe, maybe not. Opinions vary. I bought a 3x Sioux, FWIW. -Rob P. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Agustin Aparicio" <gutthy(at)wanadoo.es>
Subject: Fw:
Date: Oct 20, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Agustin Aparicio" <gutthy(at)wanadoo.es> > unsubscribe gutthy(at)wanadoo.es > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
, ,
Subject: Panel Items FOR SALE
Date: Oct 21, 2003
I have a few items for sale which I will not be installing. All of the items are new and in their original package. The price includes shipping. These are: A. NAVAID CONTROL UNIT (AP-1) with GPS sterring from Porcine - $675 B. LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR (LRI) with heat probe - $400 C. RST-523 MARKER BEACON KIT- $85.00 D. FLIGHTCOM 403-D - sold E. GRETZ AERO GPS ANTENNA - $55.00 You can see the items at this link: http://www.affordablepanels.com/forsale.htm Fabian ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2003
From: N223RV(at)AOL.com
Subject: RV-7 Slider skin fit help
I am having a difficult time fitting the rear skins on the slider canopy on a RV-7. I am following Van's directions and I cannot seem to get the skin to lay flat on the top area about 0-3" from the rear center slider track. I have shaved the canopy flat in this area (to prevent the ski slope up affect) which helped, but I still have about a 1/8" gap. When I pull the skins forward as I drill them, they seem to lay flat, but once I put a cleco in them, the pop back up. I am starting at the top center and working my way down to the side. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Hackney" <lhackney(at)rglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Slider skin fit help
Date: Oct 23, 2003
Mike, I assume you're talking about the aft canopy skirt? I had the exact same problem, when you cleco on one side it pulls the other side up. About all I can say is that you have to keep massaging it until it fits. I recall bending it over my out stretched leg at different angles, this seemed to help. You'll cleco it on and off a couple dozen times before you get just the right bend. Like everything else in the project it takes time and persistence. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: <N223RV(at)AOL.com> Subject: RV7-List: RV-7 Slider skin fit help > > I am having a difficult time fitting the rear skins on the slider canopy on a RV-7. I am following Van's directions and I cannot seem to get the skin to lay flat on the top area about 0-3" from the rear center slider track. I have shaved the canopy flat in this area (to prevent the ski slope up affect) which helped, but I still have about a 1/8" gap. When I pull the skins forward as I drill them, they seem to lay flat, but once I put a cleco in them, the pop back up. I am starting at the top center and working my way down to the side. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks > -Mike Kraus > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Slider skin fit help
Mike, I've seen somewhere some 'alternative' and more complete instructins for fitting the canopy, other than van's instructions. Not sure where I saw it though... I'll try to search the web tonight when I get home. Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> N223RV(at)AOL.com 10/23/03 09:49AM >>> I am having a difficult time fitting the rear skins on the slider canopy on a RV-7. I am following Van's directions and I cannot seem to get the skin to lay flat on the top area about 0-3" from the rear center slider track. I have shaved the canopy flat in this area (to prevent the ski slope up affect) which helped, but I still have about a 1/8" gap. When I pull the skins forward as I drill them, they seem to lay flat, but once I put a cleco in them, the pop back up. I am starting at the top center and working my way down to the side. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Slider skin fit help
Mike, Try this link... http://www.geocities.com/TimRV6A/canopysup.htm Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> N223RV(at)AOL.com 10/23/03 10:11 AM >>> I am having a difficult time fitting the rear skins on the slider canopy on a RV-7. I am following Van's directions and I cannot seem to get the skin to lay flat on the top area about 0-3" from the rear center slider track. I have shaved the canopy flat in this area (to prevent the ski slope up affect) which helped, but I still have about a 1/8" gap. When I pull the skins forward as I drill them, they seem to lay flat, but once I put a cleco in them, the pop back up. I am starting at the top center and working my way down to the side. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RikVincent(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 30, 2003
Subject: Re: RV-7 Slider skin fit help
if you would have drilled your holes alittle aft of the bar it might of sucked it down some. you still might try one between and see if it works. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 30, 2003
About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or Walmart? RV7 N808AF reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Becker" <ctbecker(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 30, 2003
I bought some RTV at the local Auto Zone - Couple of bucks per tube. Charles Becker N474CB - RV8A Empennage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> Subject: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is > there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > Walmart? > > RV7 > N808AF reserved > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 30, 2003
The best, quickest, and least messy alternative is to use nothing. I built my -7 rudder (yes, it's the new design) with no sealant at all. The only reason sealant is mentioned in the plans is to hold it straight. If you have a good straight work table, and a good handle on your riveting, it should be fine. Just remember to start out lightly, working back and forth about every 10th rivet. This will allow you to correct any waves that start. Mine turned out straight as an arrow, and a local -9 builder with no previous experience did the same thing. Turned out fine! Just an alternative, not the only way to go. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6 (w/-7tail), Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Allen Fulmer Subject: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or Walmart? RV7 N808AF reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 30, 2003
RTV is available at any auto parts store, at least most of 'em (Kragen, AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc. in this area). Permatex is the brand that seems to be most common, such as: http://checkoway.com/url/?s=fa45f5f6 Don't know what area you live in, but around here the auto parts stores are closer than Walmart and more prevalent. 8-) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> Subject: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is > there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > Walmart? > > RV7 > N808AF reserved > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 31, 2003
RTV is just another word for silicon sealant. Go to an automotive store and get a silicon that's non-corrosive to aluminium. They sell it for engine gaskets. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> Subject: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is > there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > Walmart? > > RV7 > N808AF reserved > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2003
From: "Charles L. Cotton" <charles(at)cottonfamily.com>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Allen: I'm not sure about substitutes, but most all auto parts stores carry Permatex "Blue RTV Silicone" in tubes that are about the perfect size for the stiffners. Chas. > >About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is >there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or >Walmart? > >RV7 >N808AF reserved > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2003
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 1/4" - 28 Threaded Shank Drill Bits / Scotch-Brite Wheels -
40% SAVINGS rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com FOR YOUR BUILDING NEEDS: 1) 1/4"-28 THREADED SHANK DRILL BITS, Size #40 NEW * Used with Angle Air Drills and Flexible Drill Attachments, etc. * NEW from Northrup / Grumman Aircraft Co. * 2 1/8" Long, 135 Degree Split Point, High Speed Steel * YOUR PRICE $1.50 each (Avery Part #4140, $2.70 each) 2) NAS907 Type B Drill Bits, Size #30 NEW * High Speed, Nitride Oxide coated for enhanced abrasion resistance * Recommended for Stainless Steel, hard Steel, Titanium, etc. * NEW from Northrup / Grumman Aircraft Co. * 135 degree Split Point * 2 3/4" long * YOUR PRICE $1.00 each 3) DEBURRING WHEEL (aka Scotch Brite Wheel) * NEW from Northrup / Grumman Aircraft Co. * Used to Radius, Deburr & Smooth edges on Aluminum parts using a Die Grinder, etc. * 7A Medium Grit, Aluminum Oxide (The "ONE" recommended by Van's Aircraft) * 1" dia x 1" high with 3/16" hole for Mandrel (Mandrel not supplied) * YOUR PRICE $3.25 each (Avery Part #3700, $5.00 each) Minimum Order $10.00 POSTAGE INCLUDED Indicate interest OFF LINE by E-Mail. Supplies Limited __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lincoln Schlecht" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 30, 2003
"About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or Walmart?" =========================================== I wouldn't suggest RTV. I have seen instances where the vinegar (acetic acid) in RTV silicone eats at the aluminum as it cures, causing a poor bond that allows for leak in the future. This is very prevalent in motorcycle engines and VW engines. Acetic acid and aluminum don't co-exist well. Perhaps 3M weatherstrip adhesive would be a better choice of locally available adhesive (wal-mart, auto parts, etc). I do not know if pro-seal is the recommended substance, but you have come this far, why not just get the right stuff and do it right??? Is it worth it to you to always have the thought nagging in your mind: "I should have just bought some pro-seal and did it right". To me, I like to make sure I did it right the first time, with the right materials. Happy building, Linc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 31, 2003
RTV is available at both. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> Subject: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is > there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > Walmart? > > RV7 > N808AF reserved > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Oct 31, 2003
That's why you have to use a non-acidic silicon formulated especially for aluminium. All autoparts places have it. Loctite Blue Maxx will do the trick. > > I wouldn't suggest RTV. I have seen instances where the vinegar (acetic > acid) in RTV silicone eats at the aluminum as it cures, causing a poor bond > that allows for leak in the future. This is very prevalent in motorcycle > engines and VW engines. Acetic acid and aluminum don't co-exist well. > > Perhaps 3M weatherstrip adhesive would be a better choice of locally > available adhesive (wal-mart, auto parts, etc). > I do not know if pro-seal is the recommended substance, but you have come > this far, why not just get the right stuff and do it right??? Is it worth > it to you to always have the thought nagging in your mind: "I should have > just bought some pro-seal and did it right". To me, I like to make sure I > did it right the first time, with the right materials. > > Happy building, > Linc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: All New Matronics Email List Online Chat!!!
Hi Listers! A number of Listers have been asking for some Matronics Email List online chat and NOW ITS HERE! Over the last couple of days I've set up a nifty web-based Chat site here on the Matronics systems. No special programs to download; all you need is a late model web browser like Internet Explorer or Netscape with a java plugin. I would recommend downloading the latest Java plugin if you experience any problems getting the page to come up. Here's a link to the Sun Java download website. http://java.com/en/index.jsp Look for the green box with the yellow arrow in the upper right corner. Before you bother, though, just try you browser because it'll probably just work. Each Email List on Matronics has its own "Room" and all rooms can easily be accessed from the same client. In the Email List URL Trailer at the bottom of each List message, you'll find the Link to this List's specific Chat Room. Just click on the Link, and then type in your name or email address in the User Name box. Try to use a name or email address that the other Listers know you by. You'll find me lurking around the various List chat rooms as "MattDralle". There's a couple of nifty features I'll explain right off. On the main Chat Window page after you login, you'll see a little icon with a Hammer and a Screwdriver. This is the Control Panel window. Once the Control Panel comes up, click on the "Settings" tab. Here you'll find, among other things, three check boxes to enable sound. Click all three and you'll be treated to a sound whenever someone enters or leaves the Room, or when someone sends a message. The other cool button is the one that has four little arrows pointing to each of the four corners of the button. This will rip the main Chat window from the web page and allow you to resize and move it anyway you'd like. Let's have some fun and get to know one another better using this awesome new Chat Room! To get started, just click the URL Link below for this List's specific Chat Room! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin PS - I'm working on a web link interface to the chat logfiles. Coming soon... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2003
From: Jim Brown <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
I have been following this thread about Silicone to use on the rudder. Silicone is flexible, how is that going to hold the rudder rigid so that it can be back riveted? Jim Brown RV 7A "Charles L. Cotton" wrote: > > Allen: > I'm not sure about substitutes, but most all auto parts stores > carry Permatex "Blue RTV Silicone" in tubes that are about the perfect size > for the stiffners. > > Chas. > > > > >About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is > >there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > >Walmart? > > > >RV7 > >N808AF reserved > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Becker" <ctbecker(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Nov 01, 2003
I understand that the silicone is to prevent vibration while flying and has nothing to do with the riveting as it is not used until the rudder about to be closed. I must admit that I did read somewhere else about putting a small amount of proseal/RTV between the stiffener and the skin to reduce vibration. Charles Becker N474CB - RV8A Empennage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Brown" <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > I have been following this thread about Silicone to use on the rudder. Silicone > is flexible, how is that going to hold the rudder rigid so that it can be back > riveted? > > Jim Brown > RV 7A > > "Charles L. Cotton" wrote: > > > > > Allen: > > I'm not sure about substitutes, but most all auto parts stores > > carry Permatex "Blue RTV Silicone" in tubes that are about the perfect size > > for the stiffners. > > > > Chas. > > > > > > > >About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is > > >there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > > >Walmart? > > > > > >RV7 > > >N808AF reserved > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Nov 01, 2003
The RTV/Silicone WAS for vibration on the rudders/elevators/ailerons with the closed Trailing Edges. This is not the purpose on the rudders and elevators with the riveted T/E's. In the flight controls with the closed T/E's, vibration many times resulted in a crack in the last hole of the stiffner. With the new T/E's, the "gunk" is used to assist the builder in keeping the edge straight for riveting. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charles Becker Subject: Re: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners I understand that the silicone is to prevent vibration while flying and has nothing to do with the riveting as it is not used until the rudder about to be closed. I must admit that I did read somewhere else about putting a small amount of proseal/RTV between the stiffener and the skin to reduce vibration. Charles Becker N474CB - RV8A Empennage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Brown" <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > I have been following this thread about Silicone to use on the rudder. Silicone > is flexible, how is that going to hold the rudder rigid so that it can be back > riveted? > > Jim Brown > RV 7A > > "Charles L. Cotton" wrote: > > > > > Allen: > > I'm not sure about substitutes, but most all auto parts stores > > carry Permatex "Blue RTV Silicone" in tubes that are about the perfect size > > for the stiffners. > > > > Chas. > > > > > > > >About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. Is > > >there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > > >Walmart? > > > > > >RV7 > > >N808AF reserved > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners
Date: Nov 01, 2003
Is not, is too, is not. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > The RTV/Silicone WAS for vibration on the rudders/elevators/ailerons with > the closed Trailing Edges. This is not the purpose on the rudders and > elevators with the riveted T/E's. In the flight controls with the closed > T/E's, vibration many times resulted in a crack in the last hole of the > stiffner. With the new T/E's, the "gunk" is used to assist the builder in > keeping the edge straight for riveting. > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > RV6's, Minneapolis > > http://www.steinair.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charles Becker > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > > I understand that the silicone is to prevent vibration while flying and has > nothing to do with the riveting as it is not used until the rudder about to > be closed. > I must admit that I did read somewhere else about putting a small amount of > proseal/RTV between the stiffener and the skin to reduce vibration. > > Charles Becker > N474CB - RV8A > Empennage > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Brown" <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Any substitute for RTV on rudder stiffners > > > > > > I have been following this thread about Silicone to use on the rudder. > Silicone > > is flexible, how is that going to hold the rudder rigid so that it can be > back > > riveted? > > > > Jim Brown > > RV 7A > > > > "Charles L. Cotton" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Allen: > > > I'm not sure about substitutes, but most all auto parts stores > > > carry Permatex "Blue RTV Silicone" in tubes that are about the perfect > size > > > for the stiffners. > > > > > > Chas. > > > > > > > > > > >About to close up the rudder skin and don't have any proseal or RTV. > Is > > > >there an acceptable substitute available at the local hardware store or > > > >Walmart? > > > > > > > >RV7 > > > >N808AF reserved > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2003 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists...
Dear Listers, During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists. The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show how much traffic the Lists generated this year alone: * 11/01/2002 - 10/31/2003 o Web server hits: 10,446,780 (870,565/mo) o Incoming Email Posts: 58,918 (4,909/mo) List-related upgrades this year have been plentiful, and List performance has substantially improved as a result. Upgrades and enhancements this year have included: * Internet Connection upgrade to a full, commercial-grade T1 Line! * New Web Server platform - Dual 3Ghz Xeon with 2Gb Ram and U320 SCSI! * Upgrade of Email Server platform - Dual 1.7 Ghz Xeon with 1Gb Ram! * All new SPAM Filtering Appliance - filters about 98% of the unwanted SPAM! * All new, web-base List Chat Room society! As you can well imagine, this year's upgrades translate into a fair amount of cash outlay on my part and this annual List Fund Raiser is the sole means by which I fund these upgrades. Unlike most of the other "list servers" on the Web these days, I have a strict *no-commercial-advertisement policy* on the Matronics Lists and associated List web sites. I was again approached by a number of vendors recently with advertising deals that have been very tempting. My commitment to providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment prevailed, however! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing exponentially every year, with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to mention the ever increasing Virus attacks. My goal with the Matronics List Service is to provide all members with a commercial-free, virus-free, and high-performance system with which the may share information, ideas, and camaraderie. The best news this year is that, with the gracious help of Andy Gold and The Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I have been able to significantly expand the lineup of fantastic Gift offers to support the List Fund Raiser! In all, there are eight awesome free gifts this year ranging from List Archive CD's to Flight Computers with qualifying Contribution levels. Those great Jeppesen Flight Bags that were so popular last year are even back! A special thanks goes out to Andy Gold again this year for his very kind and generous support of the Lists. Thanks Andy, for these great incentives!! Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made possible through YOUR thoughtful and generous support! To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with a personal check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as information on the various methods of payment. Contributions in the $20, $30, $50, $75, and $100 range are common. The Contribution web page is kind of long this year with the details of each of the gifts, so please scroll all the way down! SSL Secure Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contributions I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this year! Your Contributions truly make it all possible!! Thank you!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2003
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv10-list(at)matronics.com, rvcanada-list(at)matronics.com, rveurope-list(at)matronics.com
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RVx-List vs. RV-List Subscriptions
Dear RV-x Listers, I was chatting with a nice fellow on the new Matronics RV6-List Chatroom yesterday ( http://www.matronics.com/chat ), and he ask me an interesting question. Basically, what he was saying was that he had been subscribed to the RV-List back a few years ago and he used to get a lot of messages each day. Recently, he resubscribed and now only gets a few messages. "What Happened?", he wanted to know... Long story short, originally he had subscribed to the non-model specific List, the "RV-List(at)matronics.com". When he resubscribed, he just subscribed to the model-specific List, the "RV6-List(at)matronics.com". Since the model-specific Lists receive far less traffic than the main RV-List, the mystery of his reduced content was solved. He's now subscribed to the Main RV-List in addition to the RV6-List and is happily receiving a few more messages each day. I realize that many of you have made a conscious decision to only subscribe to one or more of the model-specific Lists. This conversation did make me wonder, though, just how many people have subscribed to the model-specific Lists, not knowing that a lot of the RV dialog is really on the main RV-List...? Anyway, I thought I'd post a little message today and spread the word. I did some number crunching on the RVx-Lists vs. RV-List subscriptions and found that there are 819 unique people subscribed to one or more model-specific RVx-Lists but that are NOT subscribed to the general RV-List! That's a lot of people missing out on a main flow of RV information. I've setup a little web page where you can check to see if you're currently subscribed to the RV-List and easily subscribe if you're not! http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/Am-I-Subscribed.html The RV-List is where all the action is! Subscribe today! :-) Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2003
Subject: [ Barry Bruns ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Barry Bruns Subject: Wing jig http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/BBruns6831@aol.com.11.03.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts?
Dear Listers, The List Fund Raiser is going well so far this year and I wanted to say "Thank You" to everyone that has made a Contribution already this year! Though the generous support of Andy Gold and the Builders Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I'm able to offer some truly awesome gifts with qualifying Contributions this year. There's quite a line up and a rather diverse set of options - certainly something for every taste and personality. Here's a list of this year's fine options: * List Archive CD * Aircraft Builder's Log * Pilot Flashlight System * Pro Pilot Logbook * FAR/AIM on CD * Jeppesen Flight Bag * Aviation History Book * Techstar Flight Computer Please support your Email List Community AND pick up a really slick Gift at the same time! The SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/contributions Once again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously supported the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists Services here on the Matronics servers!! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Becker" <ctbecker(at)charter.net>
Subject: Fw: RV8-List: R-710 Hole Edge Distance
Date: Nov 07, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Becker" <ctbecker(at)charter.net> Subject: RV8-List: R-710 Hole Edge Distance > --> RV8-List message posted by: "Charles Becker" > > When I trimmed my R-710 - Rudder Horn Brace - then match drilled the holes through the skin (4 on each side), the edge distance to the holes came out at 1/8 inch. It looks a little close to the edge. Do you think I need to reorder the part? > > Charles Becker > N474CB - RV8A > Empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2003
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, "rv9-list(at)matronics.com (1.9 points) SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time and building time, by ordering the comprehensive "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and Composite Aircraft" This book took over 600+ hours of research time, by a fussy Builder. Contains 64 pages of the latest, practical information - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't), Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers Products (characteristics & application of) from PP&G, Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft Finishing Systems, Tempo, 3M, etc. Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints and Other Considerations * Corrosion Control * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using and painting problems * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, Steel and Aluminum * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial, Solvent & Water Reducible * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate,Zinc Oxide, Enamel * Paint Types: MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes Enamel Types Acrylics - Lacquers & Enamels * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) * Criteria for selecting a Paint Shop * 3M Cleaning Pads, Liquid Cleaners and their effectiveness * Paint Booths and their Construction * References - MIL Standards & Tech Orders * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distrib- utors, etc. E-Mail addresses, Phone Numbers, Application Notes YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's Paint Job and it is costly too, so have the latest "Information" in order to make good decisions. Contains plenty of "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save Time, Money and Frustration. Order today. Send a check for $25 to (includes Postage within the US) to: Garey Wittich 58 Village Parkway Santa Monica, CA. 90405 __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fw: RV8-List: R-710 Hole Edge Distance
Date: Nov 07, 2003
From: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz(at)vitez.net>
Charles, You are measuring from the center of the hole, right? Just checked mine.. right around 1/4" edge distance (from the center). If you had it clecoed together properly.. it'd be hard to drill it incorrectly. HTH> Radomir RV-7A Emp. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Becker Subject: RV7-List: Fw: RV8-List: R-710 Hole Edge Distance > --> RV8-List message posted by: "Charles Becker" > > When I trimmed my R-710 - Rudder Horn Brace - then match drilled the holes through the skin (4 on each side), the edge distance to the holes came out at 1/8 inch. It looks a little close to the edge. Do you think I need to reorder the part? > > Charles Becker > N474CB - RV8A > Empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2003
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but from my research I did for my RV-8A which I am building. --------------- ------------- ------------ SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time and building time, by using the comprehensive "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and Composite Aircraft" This book took over 600+ hours of research time by me, a fussy RV-8A Builder. Contains 64 pages of the latest, practical information - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't), Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from PP&G, Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft Finishing Systems, 3M, etc. Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints and Other Considerations * Corrosion Control * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using and painting problems * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, Steel and Aluminum * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial, Solvent & Water Reducible * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate,Zinc Oxide, Enamel * Paint Types: MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes Enamel Types Acrylics - Lacquers & Enamels * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) * Selecting a Paint Shop * 3M Cleaning Pads, Liquid Cleaner compatibility * Paint Booths and their Construction * References - MIL Standards & Tech Orders * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distrib- utors, etc. E-Mail addresses, phone numbers, Application Notes YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's Paint Job and it is costly too, so have the latest "Information" in order to make good decisions. Contains plenty of "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save time, money and frustration. Send a check for $25 to (includes Postage within the US) to: Garey Wittich RV-8A Builder 58 Village Parkway Santa Monica, CA. 90405 __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: WLAS...
Dear Listers, Below are some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists in that little message box on the Contribution form! Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!! If you haven't yet shown your support for these Lists, won't you take a moment and make your Contribution today? The Matronics Lists are always Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, and High-performance and its your direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that enables all of these valuable services you've come to expect. Thank you for your Contribution!! SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution Matt Dralle EMail List Administrator ================================================================ =================== What Listers Are Saying ==================== ================================================================ You provide a service to us kit builders that cannot be measured. -Clifford M. ...great service to the aviation community. -Curt R. Thanks for being there - your List has really been of help. -Thomas R. Your lists have been most helpful to my RV-9A project. -Dean V. ...has been a great help to me. -Jim N. ..."must-have" for RV builders and pilots. -Douglas W. I find something every day on the List that helps me in my project. -Ron P. ...very valuable! -Patrick L. Don't know that I could have persevered and succeeded without the List. -Curt R. ...service continues to be awesome and is one of the most helpful resources for homebuilding that I have ever found. -Jim H. The information and hours of entertainment many of us derive from the Lists is priceless. -Chris R. I learn a lot about my [aircraft] through the Lists... - Lee P. Great source of education and entertainment. Love it!!! -Lar B. Great List & very well organized. -Peter D. I couldn't build my [airplane] without this List. -William G. The List is an important part of my daily routine. -Roger H. ...incredible resource. -Ron P. Excellent facility. -David M. ...unmatched service to all builders and flyers. -Ralph C. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
, , ,
Subject: Aluminum Air Vents
Date: Nov 10, 2003
If you didn't get a chance to visit Oshkosh this year, and stop by the Van's Aircraft tent, you probably missed meeting and talking to Jeff Mears of Airkit, LLC. Jeff was at Oshkosh introducing his brand new set of full size aluminum vents, which are a direct replacement to the plastic ones Van sells. We just received a set of Jeff?s vents for our own RV-9A, and we are very impressed with the quality, looks and performance of the vents. We want everyone on the list to know that we paid the full price for our vents (call Jeff and ask). Our main motive for posting this e-mail is, strictly, as a response to the high number of calls we have received asking for an alternative to Van's plastic vents. Until now, we didn?t know of one. All of the available aluminum vents out there are only sold with a clear finish, and are much smaller in size and volume of air they provide. If you want to see a side by side comparison of the plastic vs. aluminum vents, see this special webpage we've created at http://www.affordablepanels.com/Airvents.html We are planning to sell these vents on a "Pass-Thru" basis to our customers to save them a bit on shipping charges when ordered with a Modular Panel, but if you are interested on a set of these vents, you can order them directly from Jeff by visiting his website at http://www.bravoavtech.com/airkit/ The vents are pricey, but compared to what other aviation catalog companies are charging for the tiny ones, these are an excellent deal. Best Regards, Fabian Lefler www.affordablepanels.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year?
Dear Listers, I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot* receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the Archive Search times. Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion, is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical email thread. I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of messages on line for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous v*ruses. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 10,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over 90,000,000 (yes, that 90 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free. I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! ----------------------------------------------- The SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution ----------------------------------------------- Thank you, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year?
Date: Nov 14, 2003
I have already contributed -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Subject: RV7-List: [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? Dear Listers, I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot* receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the Archive Search times. Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion, is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical email thread. I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of messages on line for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous v*ruses. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 10,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over 90,000,000 (yes, that 90 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free. I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! ----------------------------------------------- The SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution ----------------------------------------------- Thank you, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)access4less.net>
Subject: Rivets and rivet guns, etc
Date: Nov 17, 2003
I am in the process of setting up to start on an RV6. It is a very slow build kit. I would appreciate some advice on rivet tools. What rivet gun seems to be the best all around as far as versatility and longevity? Which seems to have the best trigger? Is a 1X enough? Is 3X too much? What rivet sets are the most useful and which are useful in some limited uses? Long sets, offset sets, C frame sets, swivel sets, cushioned sets. Any other accessory that any of you found useful or would have liked to have to make setting a particular rivet easier? What size yokes are useful or needed in some locations on a pneumatic rivet squeezer or on a hand rivet squeezer? I apologize if you get several copies of this message. I am subscribed to several RV lists. Thank all of you for the information and encouragement. Lyle Peterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)access4less.net>
Subject: Rivets and rivet guns, etc.
Date: Nov 17, 2003
I am in the process of setting up to start on an RV6. It is a very slow build kit. I would appreciate some advice on rivet tools. What rivet gun seems to be the best all around as far as versatility and longevity? Which seems to have the best trigger? Is a 1X enough? Is 3X too much? What rivet sets are the most useful and which are useful in some limited uses? Long sets, offset sets, C frame sets, swivel sets, cushioned sets. Any other accessory that any of you found useful or would have liked to have to make setting a particular rivet easier? What size yokes are useful or needed in some locations on a pneumatic rivet squeezer or on a hand rivet squeezer? I apologize if you get several copies of this message. I am subscribed to several RV lists. Thank all of you for the information and encouragement. Lyle Peterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OAITX(at)AOL.com
Date: Nov 17, 2003
Subject: Re: Rivets and rivet guns, etc REPLY
Avery has a tool kit that I bought. I recommend it. I, too, was just starting out and didn't have anything......well, I had basic garage/workshop tools, but no aircraft tools. I did go the extra and got the pneumatic rivet gun/dimpler in addition to the 2X rivet gun that is in the tool kit. It works GREAT. The dimples and the rivets are consistent. You still have to use the C-Frame to dimple the center areas. Bob Lake RV-7 QB 512 251-2277 512 251-7707 FAX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)access4less.net>
, ,
Subject: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you flame
me
Date: Nov 18, 2003
SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS It is so disheartening to learn that aviators are so narrow minded and selfish. If you people had used one tenth of the energy you expended on blasting my question to providing useful information, you could have written a book. As is it you only demonstrated that you 1. Don't know the answers, 2. Think that your knowledge is so unique that it can't be shared, 3. You have an immense amount of time to waste, 4. You have absolutely no respect for other people, whether they be builders or not. Someone suggested that the question was 'stupid.' The only stupid question is one that you can't answer! I checked the archives for the "gazillion" answers to be found there. I found four and not all of them pertained directly to my question. None of them covered all the questions I had posed. A few responded off list. They probably did not want to be caught by the lords of the list giving information to a new builder. I do thank those few for the information they so generously shared. They are very unlike the rest of the listers. Some two thousand people on these lists and only a very few are willing to answer. Rather, several find the time to waste flaming the questioner. The thread continues under the guise of a 'Food Fight.' How charming! So many messages use an existing subject because so few of you have figured out how to start a new thread on the list. Shame, shame. Look at the bottom of the message for the information you need. You don't even have to ask a question of the list, and thus get flamed for a stupid question. I did envision one day flying it to Oshkosh. If I do, which is doubtful, I will park it in the Vintage area. There are some folks there that will talk decently to you about airplanes and lots of other things. If you get too many copies of this email, use the delete key. Thanks for nothing, Lyle Peterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2003
From: "Wayne Reese" <waynereese(at)qwest.net>
Subject: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you
flame me Lyle, I sure agree with this listing. I have been a member here for some time and I sure lost respect for some I had thought were great. If it is not a question they care about then we better not ask it. Wayne -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Peterson rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv9-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you flame me It is so disheartening to learn that aviators are so narrow minded and selfish. If you people had used one tenth of the energy you expended on blasting my question to providing useful information, you could have written a book. As is it you only demonstrated that you 1. Don't know the answers, 2. Think that your knowledge is so unique that it can't be shared, 3. You have an immense amount of time to waste, 4. You have absolutely no respect for other people, whether they be builders or not. Someone suggested that the question was 'stupid.' The only stupid question is one that you can't answer! I checked the archives for the "gazillion" answers to be found there. I found four and not all of them pertained directly to my question. None of them covered all the questions I had posed. A few responded off list. They probably did not want to be caught by the lords of the list giving information to a new builder. I do thank those few for the information they so generously shared. They are very unlike the rest of the listers. Some two thousand people on these lists and only a very few are willing to answer. Rather, several find the time to waste flaming the questioner. The thread continues under the guise of a 'Food Fight.' How charming! So many messages use an existing subject because so few of you have figured out how to start a new thread on the list. Shame, shame. Look at the bottom of the message for the information you need. You don't even have to ask a question of the list, and thus get flamed for a stupid question. I did envision one day flying it to Oshkosh. If I do, which is doubtful, I will park it in the Vintage area. There are some folks there that will talk decently to you about airplanes and lots of other things. If you get too many copies of this email, use the delete key. Thanks for nothing, Lyle Peterson = == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you
flame me
Date: Nov 18, 2003
Here's a fifth possibility; people get tired of answering the same questions every week, put to them by people who are too lazy to check the archives for the previous 100 answers to the same question. For example, I (and many others) answered this question about 2x vs 3x just a couple weeks ago for someone else. Also, it doesn't look as good for you when, by your own admission, you shotgun your question multiple times to multiple lists. Your view of this list is unique, as there are many good people here, providing good help and encouragement to other builders. You seem quite childish, and I doubt you'll be missed. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lyle Peterson rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv9-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you flame me It is so disheartening to learn that aviators are so narrow minded and selfish. If you people had used one tenth of the energy you expended on blasting my question to providing useful information, you could have written a book. As is it you only demonstrated that you 1. Don't know the answers, 2. Think that your knowledge is so unique that it can't be shared, 3. You have an immense amount of time to waste, 4. You have absolutely no respect for other people, whether they be builders or not. Someone suggested that the question was 'stupid.' The only stupid question is one that you can't answer! I checked the archives for the "gazillion" answers to be found there. I found four and not all of them pertained directly to my question. None of them covered all the questions I had posed. A few responded off list. They probably did not want to be caught by the lords of the list giving information to a new builder. I do thank those few for the information they so generously shared. They are very unlike the rest of the listers. Some two thousand people on these lists and only a very few are willing to answer. Rather, several find the time to waste flaming the questioner. The thread continues under the guise of a 'Food Fight.' How charming! So many messages use an existing subject because so few of you have figured out how to start a new thread on the list. Shame, shame. Look at the bottom of the message for the information you need. You don't even have to ask a question of the list, and thus get flamed for a stupid question. I did envision one day flying it to Oshkosh. If I do, which is doubtful, I will park it in the Vintage area. There are some folks there that will talk decently to you about airplanes and lots of other things. If you get too many copies of this email, use the delete key. Thanks for nothing, Lyle Peterson --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2003
From: Duncan Engh <duncanengh(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you
flame me Wayne Please advise how I can be taken off your mailing list. Thank you Duncan @ duncanengh@yahoo,com --- Wayne Reese wrote: > > > Lyle, > I sure agree with this listing. I have been a > member here for some time > and I sure lost respect for some I had thought were > great. If it is not > a question they care about then we better not ask > it. > Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Lyle Peterson > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv6-list(at)matronics.com; > rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com; > rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: No subject as you will give it a > new one shortly > after you flame me > > > > It is so disheartening to learn that aviators are so > narrow minded and > selfish. If you people had used one tenth of the > energy you expended on > blasting my question to providing useful > information, you could have > written a book. As is it you only demonstrated that > you 1. Don't know > the answers, 2. Think that your knowledge is so > unique that it can't be > shared, 3. You have an immense amount of time to > waste, 4. You have > absolutely no respect for other people, whether they > be builders or not. > > Someone suggested that the question was 'stupid.' > The only stupid > question is one that you can't answer! > > I checked the archives for the "gazillion" answers > to be found there. I > found four and not all of them pertained directly to > my question. None > of them covered all the questions I had posed. > > A few responded off list. They probably did not > want to be caught by > the lords of the list giving information to a new > builder. I do thank > those few for the information they so generously > shared. They are very > unlike the rest of the listers. Some two thousand > people on these lists > and only a very few are willing to answer. Rather, > several find the > time to waste flaming the questioner. The thread > continues under the > guise of a 'Food Fight.' How charming! > > So many messages use an existing subject because so > few of you have > figured out how to start a new thread on the list. > Shame, shame. Look > at the bottom of the message for the information you > need. You don't > even have to ask a question of the list, and thus > get flamed for a > stupid question. > > I did envision one day flying it to Oshkosh. If I > do, which is > doubtful, I will park it in the Vintage area. > There are some folks > there that will talk decently to you about airplanes > and lots of other > things. > > If you get too many copies of this email, use the > delete key. > > Thanks for nothing, > > Lyle Peterson > > > > == > == > == > == > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Canopy Finished
Date: Nov 19, 2003
Wahoooo. The canopy is finally finished. After nearly 2.5 months of work the canopy is ready to put away until needed further. This includes all of the fiberglass work. It turned out great. I am going to compile my notes and post some of the things I learned in hopes it will save time and work for others. One early tip is ORDER YOUR FINISH KIT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The canopy is a sh_tload of work that you don't want to rush through because everything else is done!!! Should have the info up in a day or two. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: Canopy Finished
Date: Nov 20, 2003
What you say about the canopy is in line with what I've heard elsewhere - a MAJOR task to do it right. I have mine set up in a bedroom in my house (a bit colder in NH than AZ), and will be doing mine there over the winter. I'll be very interested in any tips and details of lessons learned. Thanks, brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Darwin N. Barrie Subject: RV7-List: Canopy Finished Wahoooo. The canopy is finally finished. After nearly 2.5 months of work the canopy is ready to put away until needed further. This includes all of the fiberglass work. It turned out great. I am going to compile my notes and post some of the things I learned in hopes it will save time and work for others. One early tip is ORDER YOUR FINISH KIT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The canopy is a sh_tload of work that you don't want to rush through because everything else is done!!! Should have the info up in a day or two. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2003
From: David Lamb <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net>
Subject: Elevator stiffiners
Hi Allen Nothing special about the E-720 J,K, and L. They are much the same as the stiffeners on the right elev. The main reason for the precise trimming and shortening is so they don't touch the skin or stiffeners on the opposite side when it is all folded together. David Lamb Tisdale, Saskatchewan RV-7A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Fuel Inj. ret.line
Date: Nov 22, 2003
I can't find any information on the placement of the fuel injected return line to the tank. I was thinking of placing a fitting on the large plate on the root rib near the top of the plate. Any help?? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: Fuel Inj. ret.line
Date: Nov 22, 2003
The Van's FI pump setup for Lycoming FI does not use a return line. Eggenfellner Subaru has a most excellent installation manual that covers all this and much more in great detail. http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/EAA_IG/EAA_RV_IG.htm TRUST ME on this; in the cabin, fuel supply goes on TOP, then return, then brake lines. Try it another way & you'll be redoing it, as I did twice. http://brian76.mystarband.net/FuselageNov03.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Darwin N. Barrie Subject: RV7-List: Fuel Inj. ret.line I can't find any information on the placement of the fuel injected return line to the tank. I was thinking of placing a fitting on the large plate on the root rib near the top of the plate. Any help?? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)AOL.com
Date: Nov 22, 2003
Subject: Low Oil Temps
rv-list(at)matronics.com, vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com I have searched the archives and did not find too much informative. Maybe I did not search it properly. My RV-4 runs very cool, too cool. My CHT's are around 380-400 F Max, and my oil temp is only around 150F on a hot day.... I have a firewall mounted oil cooler, 2.5:" scat tubing going to it, I have checked the oil temp probe and it is accurate. I cannot seem to get any warmer temps unless I use duct tape to block off air to the cowl. I tried an adjustable door to the oil cooler to block off the air, but it only helped increase the temps by about 10 degrees. I plan to install an aluminum blocker on the baffles to simulate the duct tape blocking air into the cowl. Does anyone have any other ideas that I can try? Thanks for any help! -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Low Oil Temps
Date: Nov 22, 2003
Hi Mike, I wouldn't be too concerned with your CHT's, those look fine to me. Depending on which engine you have, that temperature is just about perfect. Youre oil temp does appear to be a bit low, though. I'd shoot for 180-200oF for your Oil Temp. If I were you, I'd leave the air intakes to the engine alone, as the CHT's are fine. I'd either partially block the air to the oil cooler or put a partial blocking plate behind it. That's what those of us up here in the frozen tundra (MN) have to do during the winter. That being said, I also use the customized "duct tape" winterizing kit for my cowl intakes when the OAT is below 20oF (looking forward to 3 more months of that)! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of N223RV(at)AOL.com rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com; vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV7-List: Low Oil Temps I have searched the archives and did not find too much informative. Maybe I did not search it properly. My RV-4 runs very cool, too cool. My CHT's are around 380-400 F Max, and my oil temp is only around 150F on a hot day.... I have a firewall mounted oil cooler, 2.5:" scat tubing going to it, I have checked the oil temp probe and it is accurate. I cannot seem to get any warmer temps unless I use duct tape to block off air to the cowl. I tried an adjustable door to the oil cooler to block off the air, but it only helped increase the temps by about 10 degrees. I plan to install an aluminum blocker on the baffles to simulate the duct tape blocking air into the cowl. Does anyone have any other ideas that I can try? Thanks for any help! -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Inj. ret.line
Date: Nov 23, 2003
Darwin I know that my RV-9A tank rib is different than the one on your 7. After checking with Van's, I located straight AN fittings in the upper rear corner of the end rib. Only when I started on the fuselage, did I realize that the fittings were looking straight at the end of the upper forward bar of the wing center section. I am now in the process of replacing those fittings with 45 degree angled ones. I have also found that some builders are extending their return fuel lines into the second tank bay or further to improve fuel cooling. I believe that your end rib has more area to work with, but I would suggest keeping the return out of the access plate if possible and away from the fuel quantity float. Dean Fuselage/Finish 13B Rotary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: Fuel Inj. ret.line > > I can't find any information on the placement of the fuel injected return line to the tank. I was thinking of placing a fitting on the large plate on the root rib near the top of the plate. Any help?? > > Darwin N. Barrie > Chandler AZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2003
From: Randy Richter <richterrbb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
Actually, I think it's more akin to tearing a hole in the very fabric of space... Randy Rob Prior wrote: > >Ross Schlotthauer wrote: > > >> >>Induction >>motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum >>components in a very damaging electromagnetic >>inductive field surrounding the motor. This >>electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the >>structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight >>critical components to fatigue failures. This is a >>very proven and thoroughly documented cause of >>structural failures in early all-metal aircraft. >> >> > >Wow. I'm not a materials specialist by any means, but I *am* a mech >eng., and this is the first i've heard about an EMF from a drill being >able to alter the microstructure of aluminum. > >I may be completely wrong, and this is just one of those things that >doesn't get published anywhere prominent. But without any references to >verify this claim, i'd have to say it sounds like a load of hogwash. > >Would you care to provide some references that I could check? > >Thanks, >-RB4 > RV-7 Empennage > (and quite happily finish drilling all these pre-punched holes with an >1800 rpm DeWalt cordless *electric* drill). > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , ,
Subject: Fellow RV builders- DRDT-1 dimpling tool
Date: Nov 23, 2003
Fellow RV Builders, I have developed a new dimpling tool (DRDT-1) that is easier, faster, quieter, and safer (on the skins) then any other tool offered by existing aircraft tool suppliers. I have designed it to accommodate all the skins used in a RV construction including the prebent leading and trailing edge skins and the larger skins used in the RV-10. Please visit ExperimentalAero at www.experimentalaero.com for more information about the DRDT-1, pricing and latest updates. Additionally on this website you will also find innovative tools and components under development for your experimental aircraft project. 10/11/03 (CASA GRANDE, AZ) The DRDT-1 was demonstrated to Ken Krueger (engineering) and Scott McDaniels (prototype shop) from Van's Aircraft at the Copperstate Fly-in. Van's prototype shop uses the c-frame impact dimpling tool mounted on a table. According to Scott, the c-frame is the nosiest tool in the shop and hearing protection is required when in use. Prior to actually using the DRDT-1 both were very skeptical about the tool and its ability to dimple as well as the impact c-frame dimplers on the market. After trying it they both were surprised at the ease, consistency and quality of the dimpling. In fact Scott, the most skeptical of all and self proclaimed dimpling snob, only used it a few times and then requested a unit be sent to Van's prototype shop. With the DRDT-1 the noise level in the prototype shop will be greatly reduced (there is no noise produced while dimpling with the DRDT-1), not to mention the increase in speed and consistency of dimpling. Sincerely, Paul Merems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OldOOwl(at)AOL.com
Date: Nov 24, 2003
Subject: Re: Quiet Drills-SAFETY WARNING
It depends on the cycle of the Moon. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2003
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Rv8-List" , Rv7-List
Subject: Re: RV6-List: AK 450 ELT
Hey Stein, I got the order from you today, Great service and great prices. I have the Coax installed and the Xpndr checed out OK.. Hoping to have the uhmw tape on in a couple of weeks......... Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: 5 point military style seat belts
Date: Nov 25, 2003
Do any of you folks know of a good source for a 5-point military style seat belt set? I really didn't want the non-military style that Van's carries, but I may end up going back there. I am pretty miffed that I wrote to both Hooker Harness and Silver Parachute, but neither could bother to respond. It just amazes me when these companies spend thousands of dollars on advertising and marketing, yet they won't bother responding when they have a customer, ready to buy, knocking at their door. I've run into that sort of indifference with several expensive avionics vendors. If anyone knows of other seat belt choices, I'd like to hear about it. I did a Copernic search and a search through the Yeller Pages on Van's AF site, but no luck so far. TIA, brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: 5 point military style seat belts
Date: Nov 26, 2003
Brian, try Hooker again, I just installed my 5 point harnesses from them and it looks indestructible and at a very competitive price. It is fatter and stronger than the drawing for the Vans crotch strap anchor point assumes, so some minor adaptions will need to be made. You can be confident Hooker has the product you need. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Meyette [mailto:brianpublic(at)starband.net] Subject: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts Do any of you folks know of a good source for a 5-point military style seat belt set? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2003
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: 5 point military style seat belts
I am getting ready to purchase belts (5 point). What is your definition of "very competitive" pricewise? Dick Tasker, 90573 Francis, David CMDR wrote: > >Brian, try Hooker again, I just installed my 5 point harnesses from them and >it looks indestructible and at a very competitive price. It is fatter and >stronger than the drawing for the Vans crotch strap anchor point assumes, so >some minor adaptions will need to be made. > >You can be confident Hooker has the product you need. >Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brian Meyette [mailto:brianpublic(at)starband.net] >To: RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts > > >Do any of you folks know of a good source for a 5-point military style seat >belt set? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 5 point military style seat belts
Date: Nov 25, 2003
Brian, It's unfortunate that you have had a bad experience with Hooker or Silver. I purchased the Hooker Harness and I had outstanding customer service, so much that I still remember how nice these folks were to deal with. Have you tried to just call them directly? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net> Subject: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts > > Do any of you folks know of a good source for a 5-point military style seat > belt set? I really didn't want the non-military style that Van's carries, > but I may end up going back there. I am pretty miffed that I wrote to both > Hooker Harness and Silver Parachute, but neither could bother to respond. > It just amazes me when these companies spend thousands of dollars on > advertising and marketing, yet they won't bother responding when they have a > customer, ready to buy, knocking at their door. I've run into that sort of > indifference with several expensive avionics vendors. > > If anyone knows of other seat belt choices, I'd like to hear about it. I > did a Copernic search and a search through the Yeller Pages on Van's AF > site, but no luck so far. > TIA, > brian > http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm > > > --- > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: 5 point military style seat belts
Date: Nov 25, 2003
If you guys are buying hooker harnesses, but them from Team Rocket Aircraft. They are $312.00 for the COMPLETE SET (Both Seats), and may be ordered in any color combination. Mark Fredric sells them cheaper than Hooker will sell them to you directly, and the 5 point harnesses from Van's are unvelievably overpriced ($540.00 EACH= $1080 Total). So, that makes the Hooker harness about 70% ($700.00) cheaper than Van's. I have Hookers in both my -6's and wouldn't trade them. You can get them in 3 widths and many colors. Call Mark at Team Rocket Aircraft, or check out their website: http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Tasker Subject: Re: sec: unclassified RE: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts I am getting ready to purchase belts (5 point). What is your definition of "very competitive" pricewise? Dick Tasker, 90573 Francis, David CMDR wrote: > >Brian, try Hooker again, I just installed my 5 point harnesses from them and >it looks indestructible and at a very competitive price. It is fatter and >stronger than the drawing for the Vans crotch strap anchor point assumes, so >some minor adaptions will need to be made. > >You can be confident Hooker has the product you need. >Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brian Meyette [mailto:brianpublic(at)starband.net] >To: RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts > > >Do any of you folks know of a good source for a 5-point military style seat >belt set? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: 5 point military style seat belts
Date: Nov 26, 2003
Dick, Price for each 5 point military style harness was US$170 each. There are cheaper harnesses, but of much lower strength. I am in Australia and because our dollar is cheaper I expected the best price to be here in Australia, but no I could not beat the Hooker deal. Regards, David. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Tasker [mailto:retasker(at)optonline.net] Subject: Re: sec: unclassified RE: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts I am getting ready to purchase belts (5 point). What is your definition of "very competitive" pricewise? Dick Tasker, 90573 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Franz Fux" <franz(at)lastfrontierheli.com>
Subject: 5 point military style seat belts
Date: Nov 25, 2003
before you give Vans a bad name, check their prices Franz RV 7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: RE: sec: unclassified RE: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts If you guys are buying hooker harnesses, but them from Team Rocket Aircraft. They are $312.00 for the COMPLETE SET (Both Seats), and may be ordered in any color combination. Mark Fredric sells them cheaper than Hooker will sell them to you directly, and the 5 point harnesses from Van's are unvelievably overpriced ($540.00 EACH= $1080 Total). So, that makes the Hooker harness about 70% ($700.00) cheaper than Van's. I have Hookers in both my -6's and wouldn't trade them. You can get them in 3 widths and many colors. Call Mark at Team Rocket Aircraft, or check out their website: http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Tasker Subject: Re: sec: unclassified RE: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts I am getting ready to purchase belts (5 point). What is your definition of "very competitive" pricewise? Dick Tasker, 90573 Francis, David CMDR wrote: > >Brian, try Hooker again, I just installed my 5 point harnesses from them and >it looks indestructible and at a very competitive price. It is fatter and >stronger than the drawing for the Vans crotch strap anchor point assumes, so >some minor adaptions will need to be made. > >You can be confident Hooker has the product you need. >Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brian Meyette [mailto:brianpublic(at)starband.net] >To: RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts > > >Do any of you folks know of a good source for a 5-point military style seat >belt set? > > --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2003
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
belts
Subject: 5 point military style seat
belts I have Sparco harnesses in my car for the racetrack. They're three inch belts, so are really wide, and have a nice camlock quick release. Would there be any reason not to use this type of harness (meant for automotive/racetrack use) in a homebuilt? If not, they are a pretty nice setup, and aren't too expensive either. Narrower ones are also available. They can be used as 4 or 5 point - the crotch strap comes separately usually. Mark Taylor RV-7 Just painted interior Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (248) 829-5322 >>> David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au 11/25/03 07:41PM >>> Brian, try Hooker again, I just installed my 5 point harnesses from them and it looks indestructible and at a very competitive price. It is fatter and stronger than the drawing for the Vans crotch strap anchor point assumes, so some minor adaptions will need to be made. You can be confident Hooker has the product you need. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Meyette [mailto:brianpublic(at)starband.net] Subject: RV7-List: 5 point military style seat belts Do any of you folks know of a good source for a 5-point military style seat belt set? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2003
From: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Instrument Platform?
Hello Guys- I am new to the list, but I have a simple question.. Does anyone feel that an RV-6 or 7 would make a decent instrument "trainer" platform? My father wants to buy us something for me to learn instruments on.. He's a Cap. at Fedex, so he doesn't need to learn.. :) Anyway, I'd like to have an RV-6(7) over something like a 182.. Anythoughts? Please be brutally honest! Thanks Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Instrument Platform?
Date: Nov 28, 2003
Jeff, The RV series of aircraft are sport planes designed for recreational aerobatics. This means they have low stability and very high controllability. The combination leads to a "twithcy" plane that is not at all a good instrument platform. In my view my RV7 will have a serviceable two axis autopilot to ease the pilot workload in tough IFR conditions. Jon Johanson fleew around the world twice in an IFR RV4, so it can be done, but my first paragraph is a summary of his comments to me when I asked him your question. I will be doing my instrument training in my RV7, but I know what is ahead of me. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Williams [mailto:Tramsootru(at)direcway.com] Subject: RV7-List: Instrument Platform? Hello Guys- I am new to the list, but I have a simple question.. Does anyone feel that an RV-6 or 7 would make a decent instrument "trainer" platform? My father wants to buy us something for me to learn instruments on.. He's a Cap. at Fedex, so he doesn't need to learn.. :) Anyway, I'd like to have an RV-6(7) over something like a 182.. Anythoughts? Please be brutally honest! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2003
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Instrument Platform?
Jeff, I would suggest doing an archive search of the RV-List with the keywords "instrument" and "flying". Lots has been said over the years on this subject. As you would expect, some of it contradictory. Ross Mickey N9PT -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com> Hello Guys- I am new to the list, but I have a simple question.. Does anyone feel that an RV-6 or 7 would make a decent instrument "trainer" platform? My father wants to buy us something for me to learn instruments on.. He's a Cap. at Fedex, so he doesn't need to learn.. :) Anyway, I'd like to have an RV-6(7) over something like a 182.. Anythoughts? Please be brutally honest! Thanks Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Listers Are Saying III
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2003
Subject: Re: Instrument Platform?
From: rv72ej(at)juno.com
Jeff, You may want to do your training in a cessna... like the other responses that were posted, the RV's are sport airplanes, the mission, have fun going fast, upside-down etc... not the training platform you want for learning instruments... I'm sure you father would agree... Best of luck... writes: > > > Hello Guys- > > I am new to the list, but I have a simple question.. > > Does anyone feel that an RV-6 or 7 would make a decent instrument > "trainer" > platform? My father wants to buy us something for me to learn > instruments > on.. He's a Cap. at Fedex, so he doesn't need to learn.. :) Anyway, > I'd like > to have an RV-6(7) over something like a 182.. > > Anythoughts? > > Please be brutally honest! > > Thanks > > Jeff > > > > _-> = > = > = > = Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat > = > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Nov 30, 2003
I'm unsure of the size to which the holes in the HS-601PP skin are supposed to be drilled. Apparently they come drilled to #40, but the passage in the handbook doesn't specify if this is the final size. The passage says "Drill to final size or match drill all the remaining holes attached to the HS-601PP skin" I've unfortunately already drilled some of them to #30 but after seeing the tiny AN426AD3-3.5 rivets I'm having doubts. What is the correct size, and does it actually say so anywhere in the manual that I have overlooked ? If my drilling is incorrect, will it work out to use AD4 rivets instead ? Incidentally, where can I find out (short of buying a caliper and measuring the width) what dimensions the #30, #40, #12 etc. drill bits actually are ? Thanks Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sjevans" <sjevans(at)cox.net>
Subject: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Nov 30, 2003
Kent, Can't help you out on the proper holes / rivet size to use on skin, but here's a link to the question about number drill sizes. http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/taps-drills.htm Sam -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent Sorensen Subject: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer I'm unsure of the size to which the holes in the HS-601PP skin are supposed to be drilled. Apparently they come drilled to #40, but the passage in the handbook doesn't specify if this is the final size. The passage says "Drill to final size or match drill all the remaining holes attached to the HS-601PP skin" I've unfortunately already drilled some of them to #30 but after seeing the tiny AN426AD3-3.5 rivets I'm having doubts. What is the correct size, and does it actually say so anywhere in the manual that I have overlooked ? If my drilling is incorrect, will it work out to use AD4 rivets instead ? Incidentally, where can I find out (short of buying a caliper and measuring the width) what dimensions the #30, #40, #12 etc. drill bits actually are ? Thanks Kent = == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Nov 30, 2003
Kent, All of the skin rivets in the HS are for #3 rivets (AN426AD3). If you drilled out a few holes to #30, it isn't that big a problem. The only issue is that it is harder to shoot (set) the larger rivets #4's then the #3's. So to prevent any sort of damage during the riveting session on these locations, I suggest you use the 120 degree Avex pop rivets (Van has them) in these locations. I used these on the bottom wings skins on my RV-4. You will need to dimple the skin for the #4 rivet (AN426AD4) in these locations and you might have to shave the rivet head down a bit. Check with Van's on this, but I believe you will be OK. Remember with the prepunched parts for the most part they are prepunched slightly undersized then final drill size you are to use. A minor mistake, hopefully the worst you will make on your project. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Kent Sorensen To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 8:24 AM Subject: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer I'm unsure of the size to which the holes in the HS-601PP skin are supposed to be drilled. Apparently they come drilled to #40, but the passage in the handbook doesn't specify if this is the final size. The passage says "Drill to final size or match drill all the remaining holes attached to the HS-601PP skin" I've unfortunately already drilled some of them to #30 but after seeing the tiny AN426AD3-3.5 rivets I'm having doubts. What is the correct size, and does it actually say so anywhere in the manual that I have overlooked ? If my drilling is incorrect, will it work out to use AD4 rivets instead ? Incidentally, where can I find out (short of buying a caliper and measuring the width) what dimensions the #30, #40, #12 etc. drill bits actually are ? Thanks Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Re: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Nov 30, 2003
Thanks for the reply. So the answer is basically yes, the AD3 rivet requires #40 holes ? According to the table sjevans posted a link to, a #40 is a little larger than 3/32 so it would seem to be correct. Sigh. I have checked numerous RV-7 sites and not single one mentions having any doubt on this part... or if they did they checked with Vans before drilling. Bummer. Kent On Nov 30, 2003, at 10:50 AM, Merems wrote: > > Kent, > > All of the skin rivets in the HS are for #3 rivets (AN426AD3). If you > drilled out a few holes to #30, it isn't that big a problem. The only > issue is that it is harder to shoot (set) the larger rivets #4's then > the #3's. So to prevent any sort of damage during the riveting > session on these locations, I suggest you use the 120 degree Avex pop > rivets (Van has them) in these locations. I used these on the bottom > wings skins on my RV-4. You will need to dimple the skin for the #4 > rivet (AN426AD4) in these locations and you might have to shave the > rivet head down a bit. Check with Van's on this, but I believe you > will be OK. > > Remember with the prepunched parts for the most part they are > prepunched slightly undersized then final drill size you are to use. > > A minor mistake, hopefully the worst you will make on your project. > > Paul > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kent Sorensen > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 8:24 AM > Subject: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal > stabilizer > > > I'm unsure of the size to which the holes in the HS-601PP skin are > supposed to be drilled. Apparently they come drilled to #40, but the > passage in the handbook doesn't specify if this is the final size. > > The passage says "Drill to final size or match drill all the > remaining > holes attached to the HS-601PP skin" > > I've unfortunately already drilled some of them to #30 but after > seeing > the tiny AN426AD3-3.5 rivets I'm having doubts. > > What is the correct size, and does it actually say so anywhere in the > manual that I have overlooked ? > > If my drilling is incorrect, will it work out to use AD4 rivets > instead > ? > > Incidentally, where can I find out (short of buying a caliper and > measuring the width) what dimensions the #30, #40, #12 etc. drill > bits > actually are ? > > Thanks > Kent > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Nov 30, 2003
Kent order yourself some NAS1097AD4-3.5 rivets from Vans. These rivets will fill the #30 holes that you have drilled. They have the same size head on them that the #40 countersunk rivets do, they will look the same on the finished product. #30 rivets are about 1/8 inch and #40 are 3/32 inch. I hope this helps you, all of the skins are pre-punched to #41 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer > > Kent, > > All of the skin rivets in the HS are for #3 rivets (AN426AD3). If you drilled out a few holes to #30, it isn't that big a problem. The only issue is that it is harder to shoot (set) the larger rivets #4's then the #3's. So to prevent any sort of damage during the riveting session on these locations, I suggest you use the 120 degree Avex pop rivets (Van has them) in these locations. I used these on the bottom wings skins on my RV-4. You will need to dimple the skin for the #4 rivet (AN426AD4) in these locations and you might have to shave the rivet head down a bit. Check with Van's on this, but I believe you will be OK. > > Remember with the prepunched parts for the most part they are prepunched slightly undersized then final drill size you are to use. > > A minor mistake, hopefully the worst you will make on your project. > > Paul > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kent Sorensen > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 8:24 AM > Subject: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer > > > I'm unsure of the size to which the holes in the HS-601PP skin are > supposed to be drilled. Apparently they come drilled to #40, but the > passage in the handbook doesn't specify if this is the final size. > > The passage says "Drill to final size or match drill all the remaining > holes attached to the HS-601PP skin" > > I've unfortunately already drilled some of them to #30 but after seeing > the tiny AN426AD3-3.5 rivets I'm having doubts. > > What is the correct size, and does it actually say so anywhere in the > manual that I have overlooked ? > > If my drilling is incorrect, will it work out to use AD4 rivets instead > ? > > Incidentally, where can I find out (short of buying a caliper and > measuring the width) what dimensions the #30, #40, #12 etc. drill bits > actually are ? > > Thanks > Kent > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2003
From: David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal
stabilizer Hi Kent, I'm at the same place you are - just drilled the skin to the ribs yesterday. When you dimple the skins, the hole will enlarge just enough to allow a AD3 rivet to fit. I just tried this on a scratch piece of aluminum. Regards, /\/elson Austin, TX RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Franz Fux" <franz(at)lastfrontierheli.com>
Subject: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Nov 30, 2003
Hi Kent, if you order a Aircraft spruce catalogue, they are for free, it has the sizing in there. Vans also sells a nifty book that will give you all the physical measurements of all bolts, screws and rivets used in the construction. As a matter of fact I ended up with two and I send you one if you give me your address. Basically what you have to do is to look at the plans very carefully and check where it gives you the rivet call out. the # 3 is 3/16 and the #4 is approx 1/4, however it is not quite that exact size and so we use #30 and #40 drills . I am from a metric background and I had a very hard time to come to terms with all the different sizing, but got used to it by the time I started building the fuse, Good luck Franz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Merems Subject: Re: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer Kent, All of the skin rivets in the HS are for #3 rivets (AN426AD3). If you drilled out a few holes to #30, it isn't that big a problem. The only issue is that it is harder to shoot (set) the larger rivets #4's then the #3's. So to prevent any sort of damage during the riveting session on these locations, I suggest you use the 120 degree Avex pop rivets (Van has them) in these locations. I used these on the bottom wings skins on my RV-4. You will need to dimple the skin for the #4 rivet (AN426AD4) in these locations and you might have to shave the rivet head down a bit. Check with Van's on this, but I believe you will be OK. Remember with the prepunched parts for the most part they are prepunched slightly undersized then final drill size you are to use. A minor mistake, hopefully the worst you will make on your project. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Kent Sorensen To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 8:24 AM Subject: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer I'm unsure of the size to which the holes in the HS-601PP skin are supposed to be drilled. Apparently they come drilled to #40, but the passage in the handbook doesn't specify if this is the final size. The passage says "Drill to final size or match drill all the remaining holes attached to the HS-601PP skin" I've unfortunately already drilled some of them to #30 but after seeing the tiny AN426AD3-3.5 rivets I'm having doubts. What is the correct size, and does it actually say so anywhere in the manual that I have overlooked ? If my drilling is incorrect, will it work out to use AD4 rivets instead ? Incidentally, where can I find out (short of buying a caliper and measuring the width) what dimensions the #30, #40, #12 etc. drill bits actually are ? Thanks Kent --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Nov 30, 2003
If you don't drill the hole to the proper size with a #40 drill bit and just use the dimpler to enlarge the hole you will run the risk of causing the metal to crack. Drill to the proper size before dimpling! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer > > > Hi Kent, > > I'm at the same place you are - just drilled the skin to the ribs yesterday. > When you dimple the skins, the hole will enlarge just enough to allow a AD3 > rivet to fit. I just tried this on a scratch piece of aluminum. > > Regards, > /\/elson > Austin, TX > RV-7A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Percy" <jimpercy(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer

Date: Dec 01, 2003
It was probably a simple slip-up but one poster said that a #3 rivet is 3/16" and a #4 is 1/4".... those numbers are for bolts. Rivets are in measured 32's- a #3 is 3/32" and a #4 is 1/8". Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Size of skin match drilling holes in horizontal stabilizer
Date: Dec 02, 2003
Hi Kent, Another alternative for covering the over-sized hole blooper is to use "oops rivets." http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1070418278-230-351&browsehardware&productoops - John Burns, 7A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: C-frames at The Yard
Date: Dec 06, 2003
FYI - I got a flyer from The Yard www.yardstore.com with C-frames on sale for $95, in case any of you are in the market for one. I believe this is much less than I have seen a C-frame before. Of course, I don't know about their quality- probably made in China at that price, but I thought I'd pass on the info for anyone needing to get one. brian --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2003
From: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Hey guys- My father and I are thinking about taking on an RV-7 quick build.. I am going to continue to train in our 172 then move to the RV after it is built.. I was just wondering if any of you could point me to a few websites that would tell me where we might go to take a few classes or whatever is needed to build the quick build kit.. Also, the Van's site states a quick build kit can be built in 500-800 hours, how realistic is this quote? I know alot will depend on how often we can work on it.. This will be our first homebuilt aircraft. I've been told by many who have built them that it is VERY similar to building an R/C airplane, which I do for some "side money." Anyhow, we'd like to know where to "start." Also, one question we do have is on the spar, do many of you reccomend doing it yourself or buying the prefabbed spar offered on the van's website? My dad isn't so sure he wants to rivet the spar together since he's never really rivetted anything in his life. :D I think from what I've heard we should have no problems with the build, but just thought I'd ask you guys!! Thanks alot!! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Date: Dec 06, 2003
The spars are all prebuilt. The option to rivet your own spar is not an option for the 7/7A. It was for the 4 and 6, maybe for the 8 (I'm not sure) but is not for the 7 and 9. This is true whether you get the quick build or not. If you read the web site for the 7 you will see that the prebuilt spar is standard. There are several classes on riveting including the EAA Sportair classes and several listed on Vans site. Most of us have learned by doing and having some other builders around to guide. If you do as many do, get the tail first and work on that. Get some scrap aluminum and practice making holes and riveting and then work on the smaller pieces. You'll ruin a couple and order new ones and then be on your way. The classes can certainly speed up the process and boost confidence though I'm sure. They have the classes where you can go and build the tail in a week and take it home. That combined with the quickbuild would get you in the air in a hurry. Curt Hoffman RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail Quick build fuselage now in basement Piper Cherokee N5320W 1974 TR6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Williams" <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com> Subject: RV7-List: Contemplating Rv-7 Build.. > > Hey guys- > > My father and I are thinking about taking on an RV-7 quick build.. I am > going to continue to train in our 172 then move to the RV after it is > built.. I was just wondering if any of you could point me to a few websites > that would tell me where we might go to take a few classes or whatever is > needed to build the quick build kit.. Also, the Van's site states a quick > build kit can be built in 500-800 hours, how realistic is this quote? I know > alot will depend on how often we can work on it.. > > This will be our first homebuilt aircraft. I've been told by many who have > built them that it is VERY similar to building an R/C airplane, which I do > for some "side money." Anyhow, we'd like to know where to "start." > > Also, one question we do have is on the spar, do many of you reccomend doing > it yourself or buying the prefabbed spar offered on the van's website? My > dad isn't so sure he wants to rivet the spar together since he's never > really rivetted anything in his life. :D > > I think from what I've heard we should have no problems with the build, but > just thought I'd ask you guys!! > > Thanks alot!! > > Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Date: Dec 06, 2003
Jeff, Night and day wouldn't represent the difference between an RV and a 172. You've picked the most advanced kit Van's Aircraft has. I am starting an RV7 now. After building my RV4 twelve years ago and being very proud of the fact I did build it, I've decided to get a quickbuild even if I have to borrow the money. Time flying is paramount to time building. By the way, I don't think you have to worry about building the spar. It's done for you. Enjoy building and flying. Jim Nolan N444JN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Williams" <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com> Subject: RV7-List: Contemplating Rv-7 Build.. > > Hey guys- > > My father and I are thinking about taking on an RV-7 quick build.. I am > going to continue to train in our 172 then move to the RV after it is > built.. I was just wondering if any of you could point me to a few websites > that would tell me where we might go to take a few classes or whatever is > needed to build the quick build kit.. Also, the Van's site states a quick > build kit can be built in 500-800 hours, how realistic is this quote? I know > alot will depend on how often we can work on it.. > > This will be our first homebuilt aircraft. I've been told by many who have > built them that it is VERY similar to building an R/C airplane, which I do > for some "side money." Anyhow, we'd like to know where to "start." > > Also, one question we do have is on the spar, do many of you reccomend doing > it yourself or buying the prefabbed spar offered on the van's website? My > dad isn't so sure he wants to rivet the spar together since he's never > really rivetted anything in his life. :D > > I think from what I've heard we should have no problems with the build, but > just thought I'd ask you guys!! > > Thanks alot!! > > Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Burton Loewen" <karenandburtloewen(at)mts.net>
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Date: Dec 06, 2003
A common misunderstanding by people starting to or thinking of building any RV is that the quoted hours, 600-900, or whatever, will get you into the air. Realistically, before you get authorization to fly the airplane, 3000 hrs or more will probably be invested. Van's only count the hours that it will take an average or quicker builder to assemble the pieces which they supply. The extra hours are accumulated in the little extras, like engine and prop installation, painting, upholstering, instrument panel and it goes on and on. I have decided for myself that my Rv-7 is a 5 year project, dedicating approx 20 hrs per week, and I think that this realistic. Just starting finishing kit and loving every challenging minute of it. Burt Loewen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Contemplating Rv-7 Build.. > > The spars are all prebuilt. The option to rivet your own spar is not an > option for the 7/7A. It was for the 4 and 6, maybe for the 8 (I'm not sure) > but is not for the 7 and 9. This is true whether you get the quick build or > not. If you read the web site for the 7 you will see that the prebuilt spar > is standard. > > There are several classes on riveting including the EAA Sportair classes and > several listed on Vans site. Most of us have learned by doing and having > some other builders around to guide. If you do as many do, get the tail > first and work on that. Get some scrap aluminum and practice making holes > and riveting and then work on the smaller pieces. You'll ruin a couple and > order new ones and then be on your way. The classes can certainly speed up > the process and boost confidence though I'm sure. They have the classes > where you can go and build the tail in a week and take it home. That > combined with the quickbuild would get you in the air in a hurry. > > Curt Hoffman > RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail > Quick build fuselage now in basement > Piper Cherokee N5320W > 1974 TR6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Williams" <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: Contemplating Rv-7 Build.. > > > > > > Hey guys- > > > > My father and I are thinking about taking on an RV-7 quick build.. I am > > going to continue to train in our 172 then move to the RV after it is > > built.. I was just wondering if any of you could point me to a few > websites > > that would tell me where we might go to take a few classes or whatever is > > needed to build the quick build kit.. Also, the Van's site states a quick > > build kit can be built in 500-800 hours, how realistic is this quote? I > know > > alot will depend on how often we can work on it.. > > > > This will be our first homebuilt aircraft. I've been told by many who have > > built them that it is VERY similar to building an R/C airplane, which I do > > for some "side money." Anyhow, we'd like to know where to "start." > > > > Also, one question we do have is on the spar, do many of you reccomend > doing > > it yourself or buying the prefabbed spar offered on the van's website? My > > dad isn't so sure he wants to rivet the spar together since he's never > > really rivetted anything in his life. :D > > > > I think from what I've heard we should have no problems with the build, > but > > just thought I'd ask you guys!! > > > > Thanks alot!! > > > > Jeff > > > > > > --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JoBobSC(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 06, 2003
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/05/03
please unsubscribe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Grant" <thomasgrant(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Mixing primers
Date: Dec 07, 2003
Just a quick question to the masses. I have been using VeriPrime for the inside of my skins but using rattle cans, both Zinc Chromate and self-etching aluminum Marhide primer.. Just had a passing thought. Do you suppose that there could be an adverse reaction between these primers? That they wouldn't get along together when riveted together? My reaction was that there wouldn't be one, but I am not a expert in disimiliar paints.. Any thought, comments? Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2003
From: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Guys- Thanks for the advice.. I've been talking with my father and I we are fairly certain we are going to be ordering the QB kit.. Just not sure how soon.. I'd like to have it last week! :D I think we've decided to try and find a "local" class to take the tail section to, to help us build it.. Sounds like a good idea, coupled with the QB kit, we should be in good shape.. Kinda hard to believe you can get a "kit" aircraft in such a prefabbed manner. ;) http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_quickbuild_lg.jpg Looks like a TON of fun though! Now, we need to pick out an engine.. My dad will have no less than a 180 horse, I'd like a 200 horse.. Also, it will be IFR equipped.. Any of you guys have any pics of your IFR panels? THanks Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dougpsr(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 07, 2003
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Jeff, this is our IFR 8. There is a school in Griffin, GA. See ya. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Date: Dec 07, 2003
Heh, I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself by thinking about engine choices before even having started the tail ;-) The tail is 200-250 hours alone. From the web sites I follow it seems that a typical QB takes 1500-2000 hours of work before first flight. Doing the slow-build adds around 400-500 hours. The engine installation time is a relatively minor part of the total. Even when factoring in engine delivery lead time, you don't have to decide on an engine for at least another year, assuming about 20 hour a week. You can get the tail delivered next week as it is in stock, but even if you ordered the fuselage tomorrow the earliest delivery time is early February (I called Van's). The RV-7 is "prefabbed" in the sense that the aluminum is cut and the holes are pre-drilled, but that doesn't mean it's not a lot of work. I'm finding that for each hour riveting there is 15-20 hours of preparing the metal, drilling, deburring, straightening, and priming. Kent Sorensen Working on the vertical stabilizer On Dec 7, 2003, at 3:44 PM, Jeff Williams wrote: > > Guys- > > Thanks for the advice.. > > I've been talking with my father and I we are fairly certain we are > going to > be ordering the QB kit.. Just not sure how soon.. I'd like to have it > last > week! :D > > I think we've decided to try and find a "local" class to take the tail > section to, to help us build it.. Sounds like a good idea, coupled > with the > QB kit, we should be in good shape.. Kinda hard to believe you can get > a > "kit" aircraft in such a prefabbed manner. ;) > http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_quickbuild_lg.jpg > > Looks like a TON of fun though! > > Now, we need to pick out an engine.. My dad will have no less than a > 180 > horse, I'd like a 200 horse.. Also, it will be IFR equipped.. Any of > you > guys have any pics of your IFR panels? > > THanks > > Jeff > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2003
From: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Guys- I appreciate all the feedback.. We'd like to get in the air as soon as possible, my dad is just not 100% sure he wants to buy a kit someone else built.. He's had a few friends die in kitbuilts, so he's a little leary.. He also had a friend almost die and the FAA was trying to violate him while he was still trying to survive in the hospital.. Seems to be alot of variation on the time it takes to put together a quick build kit.. That's one reason I am greatful for all you guys.. I've heard everything from 6 months with 25 hours a week to 5 years with 25 hours a week :) I am not sure if some people are thinking in terms of the general kit or not.. The picture of the "quick build kit" looks fairly complete to me.. I know it's alot of work, and neither of us mind work.. We just wanted to fly! ;) All the pics I've seen of the QB kits look almost like build your own tail (to complete the 49/51% rule) and then "rivet" the rest together.. I know this is a generalized statement, but that's how it seems in the pictures.. I"m going to get with some local guys, might take a trip up to Dana's place and let him help with the tail :) Keep the info comming! Thanks Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
Subject: Re: Contemplating Rv-7 Build..
Date: Dec 08, 2003
That goes the same for the Inst. panel. You should have more than enough time to check out prefabed panels shown in the Chief Aircraft Catalog and they will personalize it to your pocket book. Most large E.A.A. flyins and A.O.P.A. shows have Venders displays for Experimentals. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents(at)snak.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Contemplating Rv-7 Build.. > > Heh, I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself by thinking > about engine choices before even having started the tail ;-) > > The tail is 200-250 hours alone. From the web sites I follow it seems > that a typical QB takes 1500-2000 hours of work before first flight. > Doing the slow-build adds around 400-500 hours. The engine installation > time is a relatively minor part of the total. Even when factoring in > engine delivery lead time, you don't have to decide on an engine for at > least another year, assuming about 20 hour a week. You can get the tail > delivered next week as it is in stock, but even if you ordered the > fuselage tomorrow the earliest delivery time is early February (I > called Van's). > > The RV-7 is "prefabbed" in the sense that the aluminum is cut and the > holes are pre-drilled, but that doesn't mean it's not a lot of work. > I'm finding that for each hour riveting there is 15-20 hours of > preparing the metal, drilling, deburring, straightening, and priming. > > Kent Sorensen > Working on the vertical stabilizer > > On Dec 7, 2003, at 3:44 PM, Jeff Williams wrote: > > > > > Guys- > > > > Thanks for the advice.. > > > > I've been talking with my father and I we are fairly certain we are > > going to > > be ordering the QB kit.. Just not sure how soon.. I'd like to have it > > last > > week! :D > > > > I think we've decided to try and find a "local" class to take the tail > > section to, to help us build it.. Sounds like a good idea, coupled > > with the > > QB kit, we should be in good shape.. Kinda hard to believe you can get > > a > > "kit" aircraft in such a prefabbed manner. ;) > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_quickbuild_lg.jpg > > > > Looks like a TON of fun though! > > > > Now, we need to pick out an engine.. My dad will have no less than a > > 180 > > horse, I'd like a 200 horse.. Also, it will be IFR equipped.. Any of > > you > > guys have any pics of your IFR panels? > > > > THanks > > > > Jeff > > > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _-> _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Huether" <jhuether(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Shoulder Harnesses and Baggage
Date: Dec 09, 2003
Curious if anyone has found a method to install shoulder harnesses without passing them through the baggage area of the RV6 or RV7. I'm interested in allowing for(more)bulky items in the baggage area of this aircraft. What would be the penalty in terms of cost, weight, and build time? Jerry Huether Tualatin, Oregon Planning the Storage Shed to make room for the RV7 (Tip Up) (Preview Plans) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Huether" <jhuether(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Any KSTL area builder in need of help?
Date: Dec 09, 2003
Is there anyone in the STL area building an RV that is interested in some help? Situation as follows: Possible flying job in STL area will require some reserve (on call) time that may be ideal for me to learn more about RV construction and assist someone building or flying an RV (more than 10 yrs experience as CFI, CFII), and FWIW over 1 year as an apprentice A&P. Feel free to reply off list. Jerry Huether Tualatin, Oregon RV7 Preview Plans... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harnesses and Baggage
Date: Dec 09, 2003
Why? The harness holds down bulky stuff just great. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Huether" <jhuether(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Shoulder Harnesses and Baggage > > Curious if anyone has found a method to install shoulder harnesses without > passing them through the baggage area of the RV6 or RV7. I'm interested in > allowing for(more)bulky items in the baggage area of this aircraft. > > What would be the penalty in terms of cost, weight, and build time? > > Jerry Huether > Tualatin, Oregon > Planning the Storage Shed > to make room for the RV7 (Tip Up) > (Preview Plans) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: Amazing video
Date: Dec 10, 2003
I thought everyone might want to see this piece of video of the recent Thunderbirds crash. Fortunately the pilot ejected with only minor injuries. http://www.wedda.demon.nl/eject.mpg Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing video
Date: Dec 10, 2003
Brian, I have not seen the video that was reference in this email but I did see the performances the day before and saw "external" video of the event. I was surprised that he made it out in time! It seemed that there was at most 1 second from the time of ejection to crash. Low in the loop it seemed, without enough power to pull out of it (for whatever reason). Any longer and there probably would have been a funeral. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Meyette > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:34 PM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Amazing video > > > It took 2 attempts, but I viewed it - not exactly what I was expecting > (in-cockpit view, don't actually see him pull eject), but I did > view it OK. > I don't know why he ejected. You get a split second of seeing him eject, > although I couldn't see him initiate the ejection or see why he did it, > other than he looked rather low after a loop. I hadn't heard about the > crash - when did this happen? > brian > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing video
Date: Dec 10, 2003
If you've seen the external view, James, you should view this internal one. It's a camera looking back at the pilot's face & back over his shoulder. When I was a mechanic in the USAF, they ejected by reaching up overhead and pulling a protective sheet over their head. I can see no unusual hand movement from this pilot, so he must have hit a button right next to his hand. One second, he's flying the loop, the next he's going away REAL fast. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James E. Clark Subject: RE: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Amazing video Brian, I have not seen the video that was reference in this email but I did see the performances the day before and saw "external" video of the event. I was surprised that he made it out in time! It seemed that there was at most 1 second from the time of ejection to crash. Low in the loop it seemed, without enough power to pull out of it (for whatever reason). Any longer and there probably would have been a funeral. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Meyette > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:34 PM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Amazing video > > > It took 2 attempts, but I viewed it - not exactly what I was expecting > (in-cockpit view, don't actually see him pull eject), but I did > view it OK. > I don't know why he ejected. You get a split second of seeing him eject, > although I couldn't see him initiate the ejection or see why he did it, > other than he looked rather low after a loop. I hadn't heard about the > crash - when did this happen? > brian > > --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing video
Date: Dec 10, 2003
> It took 2 attempts, but I viewed it - not exactly what I was expecting > (in-cockpit view, don't actually see him pull eject), but I did view > it OK. > I don't know why he ejected. You get a split second of seeing him > eject, > although I couldn't see him initiate the ejection or see why he did it, > other than he looked rather low after a loop. I hadn't heard about the > crash - when did this happen? If you look at the last 15-20 frames and look at the features on the ground under the wing you can see that the ground is coming up _incredibly_ fast. 100 ft or so per frame. That's why he ejected. The actual impact took place one or two frames after he cleared the plane. He must have initiated that inverted loop from way too low altitude. Scratch one $10-15M very nice jet. Awesome video. Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cammie Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing video
Date: Dec 10, 2003
I was at the airshow, he crashed right in front of everyone. It was so freaky, everyone was really quiet and didn't know what to do or say. Lots of people were video taping the show. go to http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/ktvb-thunderbirdcrash.a7bebaa7.html for some still photos and the crash video. Very people saw him eject, but we could see him stand up and walk around immediately after. It's the kind of thing that your mind replays over and over. Cammie RV7 ailerons -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James E. Clark Subject: RE: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Amazing video Brian, I have not seen the video that was reference in this email but I did see the performances the day before and saw "external" video of the event. I was surprised that he made it out in time! It seemed that there was at most 1 second from the time of ejection to crash. Low in the loop it seemed, without enough power to pull out of it (for whatever reason). Any longer and there probably would have been a funeral. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Meyette > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:34 PM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Amazing video > > > It took 2 attempts, but I viewed it - not exactly what I was expecting > (in-cockpit view, don't actually see him pull eject), but I did > view it OK. > I don't know why he ejected. You get a split second of seeing him eject, > although I couldn't see him initiate the ejection or see why he did it, > other than he looked rather low after a loop. I hadn't heard about the > crash - when did this happen? > brian > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: TBird crash-what happened
Date: Dec 10, 2003
The maneuver was a half reverse Cuban eight. He pulls to the 45 degree, draws a line, then does a half roll. After the half roll he was supposed to continue on the line before completing the loop portion. The video shows he began to pull almost immediately after completing the half roll. The report I read said he was supposed to draw the line after the roll for about 2 seconds to give him an extra 1000 ft. Also if you watch close you can see his left hand make a couple of quick attempts at the ejection before he finally gets it. Some said the engine quite but I think he cut it off before he finally got out. Makes sense if he missed the handle a couple of times. Do you think the guys in the tower where messing their britches??? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: C-frames at The Yard
Date: Dec 11, 2003
Brian The C-frame sold by The Yard only has a 19 inch throat. For RV-7 and RV-9 aircraft you will need a C-frame with a 22 inch throat to reach all the rivet holes in the center fuselage bottom skin. Avery now has the 22 inch version. Dean RV-9A 90095 Fus/Finish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net> Subject: RV7-List: C-frames at The Yard > > FYI - I got a flyer from The Yard www.yardstore.com with C-frames on sale > for $95, in case any of you are in the market for one. I believe this is > much less than I have seen a C-frame before. Of course, I don't know about > their quality- probably made in China at that price, but I thought I'd pass > on the info for anyone needing to get one. > brian > > --- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2003
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: F7108 A/B F7108 A/B forward fuselage question
I am working on the upper forward fuselage (dwg 24) for my 9A with sliding canopy. On the drawing it says to insert an AN960-6 washer between F7108A and F7108B to allow space for the "hatchet" end of the canopy support. Well, first, there were no AN960-6 washers supplied with the fuselage kit (as far as I can tell). Second, I could steal one from those supplied with the finish kit, but AN960-6 washers are only 0.031" thick anyway, so how does that provide enough space for the canopy support end which is 0.075 thick? What did you guys do who have already passed this point in construction? I am sending this to the RV7 list as well since I believe the construction is the same. Dick Tasker, 90573 Fuselage, finish kit is here... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter DeCraene" <peterdecraene(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: F7108 A/B F7108 A/B forward fuselage question
Date: Dec 11, 2003
Dick I just used any washer since the size of the washer really doesn't matter. I also left out the last couple of rivets that were closest to the support because it mkes it much easier to put it in and take it out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> Subject: RV7-List: F7108 A/B F7108 A/B forward fuselage question > > I am working on the upper forward fuselage (dwg 24) for my 9A with > sliding canopy. On the drawing it says to insert an AN960-6 washer > between F7108A and F7108B to allow space for the "hatchet" end of the > canopy support. > > Well, first, there were no AN960-6 washers supplied with the fuselage > kit (as far as I can tell). > > Second, I could steal one from those supplied with the finish kit, but > AN960-6 washers are only 0.031" thick anyway, so how does that provide > enough space for the canopy support end which is 0.075 thick? > > What did you guys do who have already passed this point in construction? > > I am sending this to the RV7 list as well since I believe the > construction is the same. > > Dick Tasker, 90573 > Fuselage, finish kit is here... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: Great New Product
Date: Dec 13, 2003
I had mentioned this product a while back when it was first announced. I now have it installed in my plane and I'm very impressed. This is a new canopy latch mechanism for Tip Up's from Robbie Attaway at www.attawayair.com. Robbie was not happy with the quality of the stock version so he designed and had a new one machined. This one is beefier than stock and has a very positive latch mechanism. When installed the latch is completely flush with the out side of the fuselage. The latch installs exactly as the stock version. It could be retrofitted to existing fuselages with a little work. Yes it is a few ounces heavier than stock but I think it looks nicer, has a more positive latch system and most importantly, it looks cool!!! Check it out. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)QCBC.ORG>
, , , ,
Subject: Fw: pneumatic rivet squeezer
Date: Dec 14, 2003
SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS > > I have pneumatic rivet squeezer on eBay. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/y6ih > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave DeWinter > > Former RV6 builder and owner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Quick build RV7
Date: Dec 14, 2003
Hi out there Any buider of Quick build RV7A in thoyghts fo selling ? All stages in b uyild process of interest ! Goran Wintzell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: To Cork or not to Cork?
Date: Dec 16, 2003
I am ready to secure the plates in the root rib and need to get some feedback on whether to use the cork gaskets or not. The archives were not friendly on this search. Any thoughts? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: To Cork or not to Cork?
Date: Dec 17, 2003
I built mine per the plans so I used the cork and prosealed the screws holding the cork between the plate and rib. I have pressure tested both tanks and they do not leak at the cork. I have not put fuel in them yet but I feel if Vans designs it with cork, and the kit gives me cork and construction plans shows the gasket is cork, then who am I to redesign the plan. I have no doubt that proseal will work too. But if you need to get back into the tank, the cork will be easier to work with. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: To Cork or not to Cork? > > I am ready to secure the plates in the root rib and need to get some feedback on whether to use the cork gaskets or not. The archives were not friendly on this search. > > Any thoughts? > > Darwin N. Barrie > Chandler AZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: Cork or not to Cork?
Date: Dec 19, 2003
Thanks to everyone that provided their experiences. I got about a 50-50 response on corking vs. not corking. The biggest issue seemed to be that cork would be easier to open up again should the need arise. I decided to use the cork and the task is done. I used 8x32 stainless socket head screws. They worked great. Wings installed today. On a final note, I don't care if I ever see Proseal again in this life time!!!!!!! Anyone know how long this stuff will be on my hands? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ Crossflow Subaru ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick Rushing <rickr(at)trillion21.com>
Subject:
Date: Dec 20, 2003
Is anyone looking at the Grand Rapids Horizon 1 EFIS package? I would appreciate any input. Rick Rushing RV 7A Wings attached!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject:
Date: Dec 21, 2003
Rick, I am a dealer for GRT so I am somewhat swayed by them. I can tell you that of the many EIS systems that I have installed they all work. I am putting the duel screen unit in my RV-10. If you have any questions please call me. Noel Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 noel(at)blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Rushing Subject: RV7-List: Is anyone looking at the Grand Rapids Horizon 1 EFIS package? I would appreciate any input. Rick Rushing RV 7A Wings attached!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: 4-40 plate nuts
Date: Dec 23, 2003
I'm looking for a source for 4-40 plate nuts. These are the same ones that Cleveland uses in the wingtip attach kit. I have sent them an email to see if I can just buy the plate nuts. ACS smallest version is 6-32. Anyone know of another source? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: 4-40 plate nuts (disregard)
Date: Dec 23, 2003
ACS hard catalog doesn't have them, the online version does and it finally came back on line!! Thanks, Darwin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Date: Dec 24, 2003
Subject: Re: Cork or not to Cork?
Darwin, an F.Y.I. I added a layer of proseal on top of the cork gasket, thus allowing double protection. The cork will allow the access plate to come off easily if needed and the proseal, well you know what it does. Tad Sargent, working on Fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vern W" <vernw(at)pdq.net>
Subject: Re: 4-40 plate nuts
Date: Dec 24, 2003
Try http://www.microfasteners.com/ Vern Houston, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: 4-40 plate nuts > > I'm looking for a source for 4-40 plate nuts. These are the same ones that Cleveland uses in the wingtip attach kit. I have sent them an email to see if I can just buy the plate nuts. ACS smallest version is 6-32. > > Anyone know of another source? > > Darwin N. Barrie > Chandler AZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 4-40 plate nuts
Date: Dec 24, 2003
Thanks. I ordered my flat head socket screws from Microfasteners for this purpose. They have the floating style plate nuts that are $$$$. Hopefully ACS will come through. Darwin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vern W" <vernw(at)pdq.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: 4-40 plate nuts > > Try http://www.microfasteners.com/ > > Vern > Houston, TX > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> > To: ; ; > > Subject: RV7-List: 4-40 plate nuts > > > > > > I'm looking for a source for 4-40 plate nuts. These are the same ones that > Cleveland uses in the wingtip attach kit. I have sent them an email to see > if I can just buy the plate nuts. ACS smallest version is 6-32. > > > > Anyone know of another source? > > > > Darwin N. Barrie > > Chandler AZ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Center mounted stick ?
Date: Dec 25, 2003
My RV-7A QB fuselage and wings have now been ordered and is expected to be here early February. The only major modification I would like to make is to have a single, center mounted stick instead of one per seat. I'm aware that this is probably not a simple change as the stick will most likely have to be raised which will change the pivot point. Some sort of narrow center console would also be nice. Does anyone know of someone who has done this successfully, in any of the side-by-side RV's ? Thanks in advance and happy holidays. Kent Sorensen Toronto, Ontario, Elevators, QB kit on order. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2003
Subject: Radio
From: Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org>
(not processed: message from valid local sender) Hi Any of you builders installing AM FM radios/CD players entertainment systems? If so, what are you installing and where are you putting them? Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Radio
Date: Dec 26, 2003
Scott, I always encourage the installation of an AM/FM/CD with a Good intercom, I use NAT-AA83 stereo or AA-85 Mono. I love listening to a CD or while cross country listening to other radio stations and getting there local news, good to hear new voices too. IMHO It is important to put it on the main buss so you can turn it completely off while the aircraft is setting for a long period. http://www.blueskyaviation.net/panel.html is a link to my web site and the location I put the unit in the last RV-9A we did. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Trask Subject: RV7-List: Radio Hi Any of you builders installing AM FM radios/CD players entertainment systems? If so, what are you installing and where are you putting them? Scott Trask IMT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2003
From: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com>
Subject: O-360 Rough Running?
Hey guys- I was just thinking about this list.. Dunno if any of you have the O-360, but our 172 has this engine in it.. It has been running rough lately.. The mag checks are fine and at 25/25 it seems to run nice.. 23/23 it seems to run rough.. The lower the MAP/RPM get, the rougher it runs.. Seems to be missing... Full throttle seems to be strong for it.. Any idea's? Sorry this is off topic, but I just thought I'd ask.. Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank" <fscorpio(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: O-360 Rough Running?
Date: Dec 26, 2003
Jeff, Try: www.sacskyranch.com There you will find links to several engine maintenance and troubleshooting articles. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Williams" <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com> Subject: RV7-List: O-360 Rough Running? > > Hey guys- > > I was just thinking about this list.. Dunno if any of you have the O-360, > but our 172 has this engine in it.. It has been running rough lately.. The > mag checks are fine and at 25/25 it seems to run nice.. 23/23 it seems to > run rough.. The lower the MAP/RPM get, the rougher it runs.. Seems to be > missing... Full throttle seems to be strong for it.. > > Any idea's? > > Sorry this is off topic, but I just thought I'd ask.. > > Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 26, 2003
Subject: Re: O-360 Rough Running?
I'm no expert by any means, but I'd check the spark plugs for lead build up or lead 'balls' stuck up in them (more often on the lower plugs). Also check and ensure the primer is not leaking (if so equipped) and check to be sure the carb heat is not opened or opening. I have seen all these things cause rough running engines. -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: O-360 Rough Running?
Date: Dec 27, 2003
Jeff, My )-320 would run rough at low rpm and fine at higher rpm. The engine finally quit on me on final one day. Turned out to be the carb circuits at the lower rpm settings. If you can't find anything wrong with the compression, valves, sparkplugs etc. Check the Carb. Jim Nolan N444JN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Williams" <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com> Subject: RV7-List: O-360 Rough Running? > > Hey guys- > > I was just thinking about this list.. Dunno if any of you have the O-360, > but our 172 has this engine in it.. It has been running rough lately.. The > mag checks are fine and at 25/25 it seems to run nice.. 23/23 it seems to > run rough.. The lower the MAP/RPM get, the rougher it runs.. Seems to be > missing... Full throttle seems to be strong for it.. > > Any idea's? > > Sorry this is off topic, but I just thought I'd ask.. > > Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Dimensions of QB wings and postponing fuse-wing mating ?
Date: Dec 28, 2003
I'm working on finding some suitable storage for the QB wings, so I was wondering if someone could provide me with the dimensions (LxWxH) including any protruding pieces. What is the weight of one wing ? I don't have much room so I expect I will leave the wings untouched until the fuselage is far along that it needs to be moved to a hanger. My plans are to do as mush as possible, including engine, all interior work and the canopy in the garage. Mating the wings up with the fuselage for match drilling is going to be very difficult space wise so I really hope that it won't be necessary at any point during the fuselage assembly. From the websites I have found there seems to be a wide variety of approaches to this. So, the question if it's possible to basically complete the QB fuselage without having to attach the QB wings ? Thanks Kent Toronto, Ontario, Elevators, QB kit on order. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Dimensions of QB wings and postponing fuse-wing mating
?
Date: Dec 28, 2003
If you put your wings on a cradle like Van's specs out in one of the drawings (used to be 12A back in the day of jigs), you can pretty much plan on 10' x 3' floorspace for the cradled wings. I don't know the exact weight of a wing, but I'd estimate 50-60 pounds. Probably 30-35 pounds at the root, 15-20 at the tip, something like that. Wing mating...if you don't have the space, don't worry about it. I don't see any reason, other than the "whoa, this is way cool!" factor, to mate your wings before you get to the hangar. It just shifts around when the work gets done. Drilling for incidence/sweep, rigging the controls, flaps, making fuel/vent tubes, etc. can all be done later. We just had a discussion about this on another list (RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com, I think) the other day, and we talked about mating one wing at a time due to space limitations. Don't even bother. Wait until you have all the space you need (presumably in a hangar) and then do it right. Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents(at)snak.com> Subject: RV7-List: Dimensions of QB wings and postponing fuse-wing mating ? > > I'm working on finding some suitable storage for the QB wings, so I was > wondering if someone could provide me with the dimensions (LxWxH) > including any protruding pieces. > > What is the weight of one wing ? > > I don't have much room so I expect I will leave the wings untouched > until the fuselage is far along that it needs to be moved to a hanger. > My plans are to do as mush as possible, including engine, all interior > work and the canopy in the garage. > > Mating the wings up with the fuselage for match drilling is going to be > very difficult space wise so I really hope that it won't be necessary > at any point during the fuselage assembly. From the websites I have > found there seems to be a wide variety of approaches to this. > > So, the question if it's possible to basically complete the QB fuselage > without having to attach the QB wings ? > > Thanks > Kent > > Toronto, Ontario, Elevators, QB kit on order. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Dimensions of QB wings and postponing fuse-wing mating
?
Date: Dec 29, 2003
I have my finished wings (less tips and control surfaces) hanging in a 11' X 4' area from the ceiling in my garage so I don't marr the paint finish). I used some hangers like we use for bicycles and wired them up there using a couple of coat hangers screwed into a couple of 2X4s. You may want to put Saran wrap over the ends and other openings to keep birds, wasps, etc out until the big day arrives. (I have mine painted yellow and a yellow finch has been attracted inside my garage on more than one occasion) Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit and FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Virgil Young" <vwyoung(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Dual firewall mounted battery boxes
Date: Dec 31, 2003
Beginning firewall forward on Rv7 quickbuild slider. Have 60 amp and 20amp B&C alternators.Want to mount dual batteries. Considering two Odyssey PC680 batteries. Thinking about mounting mounting both on engine compartment firewall. Would appreciate advice in this regard as well as alternate location of 2nd battery. Virgil Young vwyoung(at)comcast.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Dual firewall mounted battery boxes
Date: Dec 31, 2003
Control cables are gonna be the biggest factor. Depending on which powerplant and which fuel systems you go with, your T/M/P cables will penetrate the firewall on the left, right above where a "symmetrically mounted" 2nd Odyssey battery would go. You'll also need to watch out for the fuel pressure hose running up to the transducer manifold. You would probably want to relocate the transducer manifold to a more centered position on the firewall. That might force you to go with custom hoses (no big deal, just more money). Other than that, I believe my left firewall is relatively free of crap. You can purchase Van's FWF drawing(s) of the firewall individually to get a better sense of what you're up against. But...I would think that building a battery box in the cockpit, centerline, just aft of the firewall would be a good location. Take a peek at any RV-6 out there with a PC680 and you'll probably get some good ideas. Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virgil Young" <vwyoung(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Dual firewall mounted battery boxes > > Beginning firewall forward on Rv7 quickbuild slider. Have 60 amp and 20amp B&C alternators.Want to mount dual batteries. Considering two Odyssey PC680 batteries. Thinking about mounting mounting both on engine compartment firewall. Would appreciate advice in this regard as well as alternate location of 2nd battery. Virgil Young vwyoung(at)comcast.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "h" <mkwitek(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: Elevator/Trim Tab Bends
Date: Jan 01, 2004
I fretted over how to bend the tabs like many other builders. At a fellow 7A builder's house yesterday, we talked about how to keep the wood wedge in place whilst tapping on it with a piece hardwood. He suggested double sided tape. I cut a piece of maple, tapered from 7/8" to 1/8" over a 4" centerline span and placed it along the bend line. Put the scraps from either side of the piece on the outside and clamped. The double sided tape held great and this much anticipated event was no biggie. I thought I would pass it along for those who come behind me. Marty Kwitek Green Bay Finishing the Empennage Saving up for the Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Serratt" <dserratt(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Builders Tools
Date: Jan 01, 2004
I am a first time builder and am looking for tools to build a RV-7A. Hoping to find someone who doesn't need them anymore and willing to sell for a good price. Also do I really need 525 Clecos to build a RV-7A quickbuild kit? Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Re: Builders Tools
Date: Jan 01, 2004
I can recommend the toolset from Avery. It doesn't seem worthwhile to try and piece together a toolset from scratch. The savings will turn out to be minimal, the quality and usefulness of the used tools will dubious. I have been impressed with the Avery tools and I have already used almost every one for the tail alone. No, for a quickbuild you do not need 525 clecos. I'm currently working on the tail with the Avery toolkit. If you tell them you will be doing the quickbuild they will adjust the number of clecos. I believe I got 150 of the 3/32 ones (silver) and 125 1/8's, and a handful of other sizes. I have had all the 3/32's in use already so I might get another 100. I tried to find someone who would sell their tools too, but few are interested. They need the tools for the next project, or for maintenance etc. I'm glad I got the prepackaged toolkit. Kent > I am a first time builder and am looking for tools to build a RV-7A. > Hoping to find someone who doesn't need them anymore and willing to > sell for > a good price. > Also do I really need 525 Clecos to build a RV-7A quickbuild kit? > Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
,
Subject: Ground block
Date: Jan 01, 2004
I was preparing to order a ground block from B&C and noticed they are out of stock till "late January." Anyone have another source for these? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2004
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
"rv7-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: RV-7/8 wing rear spar question
The instructions say to pre-dimple the top flange holes in the w707a rear spar at the inboard doubler fork because of later limited access but make no mention of whether to pre-dimple the top flanges of w707E & F doublers & the matching top flange holes of the spar. Did ya'll pre-dimple the flanges of w707E/F & their mating points on the spar before riveting the doublers onto the spar? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7/8 wing rear spar question
Date: Jan 03, 2004
Charlie, I dimpled all the rear spar doublers and rear spar (where the doubles overlap) as well as the area above the double fork. I dimples the part separately. Note that when you do dimple them, make sure your dimple die doesn't hit the bend the part, you may have to grind some of the dimple die away to clear. In addition, the bend angle on the parts will change due to the dimpling. Carefully correct the bend after dimpling. Paul RV-4/RV-7A ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie & Tupper England To: RV list ; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: RV7-List: RV-7/8 wing rear spar question The instructions say to pre-dimple the top flange holes in the w707a rear spar at the inboard doubler fork because of later limited access but make no mention of whether to pre-dimple the top flanges of w707E & F doublers & the matching top flange holes of the spar. Did ya'll pre-dimple the flanges of w707E/F & their mating points on the spar before riveting the doublers onto the spar? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2004
Subject: [ Ken Brooks ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ken Brooks Subject: Whirlwind 151-series Propeller Installation http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kenbrooks@charter.net.01.03.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMTHAXTON(at)AOL.com
Date: Jan 03, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-7/8 wing rear spar question
On the QB RV-7, the rivets are already installed. There are several areas that the rivets have to be drilled out to install other items. example: the weldment that holds the tailwheel spring on. thanks, Bob Thaxton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Adding an access panel to the wing
Date: Jan 04, 2004
I installed my pitot tube fitting between the second and third rib from the outboard end (just had to be different). While I can reach it by removing the wing tip (plan to use screws), I'm thinking about installing an inspection cover. Has anyone added an access cover that comes close to Van's workmanship? If yes, how did you get the joggle in the skin to allow the cover to be flush? If you did something different than Van's, please describe. Thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Adding an access panel to the wing
Date: Jan 04, 2004
If you don't have the tools to make a joggle, just rivet a reinforcement ring behind the skin. Simple as that... http://www.rvproject.com/20031125.html (not on the wing, but close enough to what you're talkin' about) I'm pretty sure the rule of thumb is that whenever putting a ring on, up the thickness...so in your case use .032 to up from .025 outboard wing skin. Hope this helps, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Adding an access panel to the wing > > I installed my pitot tube fitting between the second and third rib from the outboard end (just had to be different). While I can reach it by removing the wing tip (plan to use screws), I'm thinking about installing an inspection cover. > > Has anyone added an access cover that comes close to Van's workmanship? If yes, how did you get the joggle in the skin to allow the cover to be flush? > > If you did something different than Van's, please describe. > > Thanks, > John > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
, , , "" ,
Subject: I made a donation & I'm registering as a Marrow donor
Date: Jan 05, 2004
Okay Guys (and Gals), Donating was the EASY part (you can do it too, it will only hurt when my wife aka "my banker" finds out). I also did some soul searching, cuz' it's gonna take a lot of time & traveling, but I decided I'm gonna be tested as a donor. I just registered and now I wait to get an appointment to be tested. I gotta go up to Stanford Medical Center (it's the closest donor center to me) and I'll let you all know how it goes. I hope some other folks will consider taking the plunge, either donating $ or becoming a blood/marrow donor or both... ya'll know it's for good/deserving people. check out http://www.marrow.org/HELP/join_the_registry.html or www.transplants.org Take Care and Take Air my friends, Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Adding an access panel to the wing
Date: Jan 05, 2004
Dan, Great tip! Thanks and thanks to your friend Tom as well. One confusing point for me (maybe it's the late hour) that could some clarification: You say (on your website), "Tom commented that you want about 1/16" gap all around the edges of the covers. Let proseal flow in there, and that helps form a real "embedded" seal where the covers kind of sink into it." 1/16" gap? Since a picture is worth a thousand words, can you post one? Otherwise, a few more words might help. Cheers, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Adding an access panel to the wing
Date: Jan 05, 2004
I haven't gotten there yet, but I will definitely put photos on the site when I do. The idea is that the cover plate is 1/16" smaller than the opening. Right before riveting the reinforcement rings onto the skin, you cover the rings in proseal. Rivet 'em. Then push the cover plate down into the proseal, and it'll ooze out that 1/16" gap. Clean off the excess and let it dry. You're left with the proseal having "risen" in that 1/16" gap to be flush with the skin and cover. It's a homemade gasket. I'm sure photos would still make this clearer, but hopefully this explanation helps. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Adding an access panel to the wing > > Dan, > Great tip! Thanks and thanks to your friend Tom as well. > One confusing point for me (maybe it's the late hour) that could some clarification: > > You say (on your website), "Tom commented that you want about 1/16" gap all around the edges of the covers. Let proseal flow in there, and that helps form a real "embedded" seal where the covers kind of sink into it." > > 1/16" gap? Since a picture is worth a thousand words, can you post one? Otherwise, a few more words might help. > > Cheers, > John > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
, , , ,
Subject: Re: I made a donation & I'm registering as a Marrow donor
Date: Jan 06, 2004
In the interest of elimlinating SPAM, what the hell does this msg. got to do with RV's?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> ; ; ; "" ; Subject: RV7-List: I made a donation & I'm registering as a Marrow donor > > Okay Guys (and Gals), > > Donating was the EASY part (you can do it too, it will only hurt when my wife aka "my banker" finds out). I also did some soul searching, cuz' it's gonna take a lot of time & traveling, but I decided I'm gonna be tested as a donor. I just registered and now I wait to get an appointment to be tested. I gotta go up to Stanford Medical Center (it's the closest donor center to me) and I'll let you all know how it goes. > > I hope some other folks will consider taking the plunge, either donating $ or becoming a blood/marrow donor or both... ya'll know it's for good/deserving people. > > check out > > http://www.marrow.org/HELP/join_the_registry.html > > or > www.transplants.org > > > Take Care and Take Air my friends, > > Chuck > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Composite instrument panel ?
Date: Jan 10, 2004
I came across this link http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~decraene/panel.htm to a builder that uses a very, very nice composite instrument panel. Unfortunately it doesn't appear like the manufacturer, http://www.planes-wings-things.com/rv-6_panel.htm is still in business. The google cache of the site seems to indicate that the panel is still available on a limited basis, but I haven't gotten a reply from the address I found. I know of the modular aluminum panels from http://www.affordablepanels.com/ but the angled composite panel appeals to me. Does anyone know if the composite panel is indeed still available, or if there are other composite panels of a similar design for sale ? Anyone else on this list using such a composite panel ? What are your experiences with it ? Thanks Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter DeCraene" <peterdecraene(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Composite instrument panel ?
Date: Jan 11, 2004
Kent The web site and the panel are mine. The panel is made by Laird Owens a RV6 builder in California. As far as I know he is still building the panels. His phone number is 805-522-4517. If that doesn't work the e-mail I have for him is ownes(at)aerovironment.com . If that doesn't work contact me off line and I will try to help you get in touch with him. Pete DeCraene peterdecraene(at)comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents(at)snak.com> Subject: RV7-List: Composite instrument panel ? > > I came across this link http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~decraene/panel.htm to > a builder that uses a very, very nice composite instrument panel. > Unfortunately it doesn't appear like the manufacturer, > http://www.planes-wings-things.com/rv-6_panel.htm is still in business. > The google cache of the site seems to indicate that the panel is still > available on a limited basis, but I haven't gotten a reply from the > address I found. > > I know of the modular aluminum panels from > http://www.affordablepanels.com/ but the angled composite panel appeals > to me. > > Does anyone know if the composite panel is indeed still available, or > if there are other composite panels of a similar design for sale ? > > Anyone else on this list using such a composite panel ? What are your > experiences with it ? > > Thanks > Kent > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Yuda4(at)AOL.com
Date: Jan 11, 2004
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/10/04
Kent, Call Laird. He manufactures the panel you are looking. owens(at)aerovironment.com Jay Hagwell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Re: Composite instrument panel ?
Date: Jan 11, 2004
Thanks for the reply :-) I got in touch with Laird Owens and he does indeed still make the panels. You have a nice site and I'm looking forward to more pictures. Very interesting idea with the clay on the baffles. I will keep that in mind. Thanks Kent Working on the elevators, QB fuselage and wings on order. On Jan 11, 2004, at 11:02 AM, Peter DeCraene wrote: > > > Kent > > The web site and the panel are mine. The panel is made by Laird Owens > a RV6 > builder in California. As far as I know he is still building the > panels. > His phone number is 805-522-4517. If that doesn't work the e-mail I > have > for him is ownes(at)aerovironment.com . If that doesn't work contact me > off > line and I will try to help you get in touch with him. >> >> >> I came across this link http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~decraene/panel.htm to >> a builder that uses a very, very nice composite instrument panel. >> Unfortunately it doesn't appear like the manufacturer, >> http://www.planes-wings-things.com/rv-6_panel.htm is still in >> business. >> The google cache of the site seems to indicate that the panel is still >> available on a limited basis, but I haven't gotten a reply from the >> address I found. >> >> I know of the modular aluminum panels from >> http://www.affordablepanels.com/ but the angled composite panel >> appeals >> to me. >> >> Does anyone know if the composite panel is indeed still available, or >> if there are other composite panels of a similar design for sale ? >> >> Anyone else on this list using such a composite panel ? What are your >> experiences with it ? >> >> Thanks >> Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , , "RV10 Group"
Subject: Swivel head pop riveter
Date: Jan 11, 2004
Fellow builders, Harbor Freight has their swivel head pop riveter on sale for $4.99. It appears to be very good quality and for this price you can't go wrong. If you are not familiar with the swivel head design it is rather clever. It allows you to adjust "swivel" the head so that you can gain access to pop rivets in locations where the standard pop riveter can't. Paul Merems (RV-4/RV-7A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
"Rv9-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "rvyahoo" , "Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com"
Subject: project
Date: Jan 16, 2004
List, Have cash! I am looking for a good airframe or project that has been meticulously built. Does not mater were the setter wheel is preferably a 6 or higher airframe. Please respond with email. Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 noel(at)blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2004
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
RV list
Subject: Re: project
Noel & Yoshie Simmons wrote: > >List, > > >Have cash! I am looking for a good airframe or project that has been >meticulously built. Does not mater were the setter wheel is preferably a 6 >or higher airframe. Please respond with email. > > >Sincerely, > >Noel Simmons >Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. >Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 >noel(at)blueskyaviation.net >www.blueskyaviation.net > RV-7 wing & tail, wing still in crates, tail inventoried but little work done. (this posting is for a friend; you can't have mine!) Hundreds of $ under Van's price, but he isn't giving them away. email me or call 601-879-9596 Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2004
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
RV list
Subject: -7/-8 wing wiring
Advice in the archives seems indecisive. Has anyone routed wire between the tank & spar by drilling lightening holes in the tank rear baffle Z-brackets? (I'm not concerned about running wire next to the tanks.) It would seem that a few ounces would be saved & an easy path created at the same time. If there is no prior experience with trying this, I'll check with Van's on Monday. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 01/18/04
Date: Jan 19, 2004
From: "Mike Mears" <mike.mears(at)bbc.co.uk>
Not Found The requested URL /digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2004-01-18.html was not found on this server. This is what I get when I try the two links below. What am I doing wrong? Mike Mears -------- Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.matronics.com Port 80 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV7-List Digest Server Subject: RV7-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 01/18/04 * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete RV7-List Digest can be also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2004-01-18.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2004-01-18.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ RV7-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/18/04: 0 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == BBCi at http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 22, 2004
Subject: [ Steve Glasgow ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Steve Glasgow Subject: N123SG Photos http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/willfly@carolina.rr.com.02.22.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 24, 2004
From: Jared Boone <jboone(at)earfeast.com>
Subject: For Sale: RV7 wing and tail kits
Reality has set in, and I've decided that now is not the time for me to build an airplane. So I'm selling my RV7 tail and wing kits. Here's your chance to save a little money on both kits, with some of the work already done, and avoid the factory lead-time on the wing kit. I have done about 70% of the metal work on the tail kit, but have not primed or assembled the pieces yet. A local "Fed" came by and looked at my work and said it was outstanding. The wing kit is completely untouched. I have inventoried the parts and sorted most of the hardware, and that's it. I ordered the Duckworks landing lights (the square ones, I think), electric trim, and the capacitive fuel sender. The parts are located near Portland, OR and are available for inspection. I would prefer to sell the kits to someone in the area, and could even arrange delivery within 100 miles or so. I am asking $6,500 for both kits. I also have old preview plans (circa 1998) for the -6 and the -8, if anyone's interested in those. Thanks! - Jared Boone jboone(at)earfeast.com (503) 320-2066 Portland, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Too short rivets ?
Date: Jan 24, 2004
I'm now getting ready to get my work inspected (this is part of the requirements up here in Canada). All that's left is some work on the elevators and the HS rear spar, but I've hit an issue with the plans calling for rivets that are too short. The callout for the joining of HS-603 (the rear spars) and HS-609 (reinforcement bars) say to use AN470AD4-6 here but after setting the first one it seems that the -6 is quite a bit too short to set correctly. If set to fulfill the head width requirement it gets too thin. The combined thickness of the 603 spar and the 609 reinforcement bar is 0.23 inches so the formula would indeed call for a little less than a -7. I'm curious if I'm making a mistake, if I got a thicker stock of reinforcement bar in my kit, or if this is simply a non-issue and the -6 is acceptable after all ? This will have to be inspected and approved so I'm afraid the last choice is not valid.. On the VS back spar the callout is also for -6 but there the combined thickness is just 0.175 inches so the -6 is ok. I have come across this problem two other places in the tail and it's puzzling. The other places I found the rivet length to be inadequate was the 5 rivets in HS center hinge bracket VA-146. The thickness is 0.185 inches which calls for a -6 but the plans said -5 6 rivets that join the rudder horn, the shim plate,R-904 lower rib, R-902 spar and the reinforcement place. The plans said AD4-7 but that was inadequate so I used -8. Kent Ontario, CA. Almost done with tail. QB fuselage and wings on order ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 7A Landing Gear Mount
Date: Jan 24, 2004
I'm installing the landing gear mount and the plans say to backdrill using the pre-punched holes WD-721 Landing Gear Mount for the two holes that go through F-770 and F-722 skins. This would be a pretty easy task for a slow build but on the QB the cabin is mostly finished and the F-902 bulkhead blocks access where I'm supposed to drill the forward most hole. I could probably remove some of the bulkhead to do the job but I would rather not. Any other 7A quick builders out there encounter this? What did you do? Thanks, Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA RV-7A QB (with legs....soon) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
Subject: Re: Too short rivets ?
Date: Jan 25, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents(at)snak.com> Subject: RV7-List: Too short rivets ? Sometimes the HS-609 reinf. bar is too tight a fit against the inside curve of the 603 and needs to be rounded/edged to fit perfect. The slightest separation of parts being rivited could cause the rivit to "smush" (tech. term) between the two parts, thus appearing to shorten the rivit. The tightest possible fit is necessary to maintain the airframe integrity and is essentially more important than a slightly short rivit. > > I'm now getting ready to get my work inspected (this is part of the > requirements up here in Canada). All that's left is some work on the > elevators and the HS rear spar, but I've hit an issue with the plans > calling for rivets that are too short. > > The callout for the joining of HS-603 (the rear spars) and HS-609 > (reinforcement bars) say to use AN470AD4-6 here but after setting the > first one it seems that the -6 is quite a bit too short to set > correctly. If set to fulfill the head width requirement it gets too > thin. > > The combined thickness of the 603 spar and the 609 reinforcement bar is > 0.23 inches so the formula would indeed call for a little less than a > -7. > > I'm curious if I'm making a mistake, if I got a thicker stock of > reinforcement bar in my kit, or if this is simply a non-issue and the > -6 is acceptable after all ? This will have to be inspected and > approved so I'm afraid the last choice is not valid.. > > On the VS back spar the callout is also for -6 but there the combined > thickness is just 0.175 inches so the -6 is ok. > > I have come across this problem two other places in the tail and it's > puzzling. > > The other places I found the rivet length to be inadequate was the > 5 rivets in HS center hinge bracket VA-146. The thickness is 0.185 > inches which calls for a -6 but the plans said -5 > > 6 rivets that join the rudder horn, the shim plate,R-904 lower rib, > R-902 spar and the reinforcement place. The plans said AD4-7 but that > was inadequate so I used -8. > > Kent > Ontario, CA. Almost done with tail. QB fuselage and wings on order > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir(at)easystreet.com>

Subject: Bolt torques
Date: Jan 26, 2004
Anyone have any idea how much to torque bolts holding the plastic bearing blocks used in the manual flap handle and rudder pedal mountings? I tightend them to the standard torques for the size of bolt used but that seems to compress the plastic quite a bit. Maybe it's not a problem but I would like to know for sure, any takers? Also the bellcrank bolt torques, I started tightening the elevator bellcrank down to 75 inch pounds but the bolt looked like it was starting to bow so I backed off. Anyone know what these assemblies are suppose to be torqued to (recalling that they are only supported in the center by thick wall aluminum tubes and the ball bearing assembly)? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A, canopy headaches PS: Anyone had to hack 1 inch out of both rear bows on your old style canopy frame? I did and I let Van's know I wasn't too happy about it either (I'm not supposed to manufacture small parts they are) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2004
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 or -7 center arm rest question
Try these.... For starters... I remember you sent me a note with some links in to another on, but I can't find it. I also remember somebody marketing a center armrest with a lift up lid, but can;t remember that either. http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/index.htm go to finishing, then interior. http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/panel.htm http://www.kitairplaneforum.com/gal/rbrv6/panel.html Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (313) 203-4714 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Pettiss" <pettisse(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Too short rivets ?
Date: Jan 30, 2004
I had similar concerns, despite the manual's cryptic notes that sometimes the rivet call-outs are correct even though they appear short. The "smushing" argument is generally valid, but I think I did the math and figured there was no way a -6 would result in "proper" driven heads even if perfectly mated. Before a visit by my EAA Tech Counselor, I called Van's Builder Support who essentially said: - The .5D and 1.5D specs are not hard requirements, and in fact the mil-spec accepts rivets with something like 15% less in either dimension - Note the many, many rivets in the spar doubler - Most builders will clench the longer rivets and either leave them as-is or re-drill and try again, which reduces the strength far more than using the shorter length - Thousands of airplanes are flying with these rivets, so chill For what it's worth, I followed their call-outs for the tail, but found many more cases of less-than-perfect choices in the fuselage. By that time I had the skill and confidence to go with longer rivets without clenching. Ed Pettiss RV-7A Fuselage >From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net> >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Too short rivets ? >Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:51:08 -0800 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents(at)snak.com> >To: >Subject: RV7-List: Too short rivets ? > >Sometimes the HS-609 reinf. bar is too tight a fit against the inside curve >of the 603 and needs to be rounded/edged to fit perfect. The slightest >separation of parts being rivited could cause the rivit to "smush" (tech. >term) between the two parts, thus appearing to shorten the rivit. The >tightest possible fit is necessary to maintain the airframe integrity and >is >essentially more important than a slightly short rivit. > > > > > I'm now getting ready to get my work inspected (this is part of the > > requirements up here in Canada). All that's left is some work on the > > elevators and the HS rear spar, but I've hit an issue with the plans > > calling for rivets that are too short. > > > > The callout for the joining of HS-603 (the rear spars) and HS-609 > > (reinforcement bars) say to use AN470AD4-6 here but after setting the > > first one it seems that the -6 is quite a bit too short to set > > correctly. If set to fulfill the head width requirement it gets too > > thin. > > > > The combined thickness of the 603 spar and the 609 reinforcement bar is > > 0.23 inches so the formula would indeed call for a little less than a > > -7. > > > > I'm curious if I'm making a mistake, if I got a thicker stock of > > reinforcement bar in my kit, or if this is simply a non-issue and the > > -6 is acceptable after all ? This will have to be inspected and > > approved so I'm afraid the last choice is not valid.. > > > > On the VS back spar the callout is also for -6 but there the combined > > thickness is just 0.175 inches so the -6 is ok. > > > > I have come across this problem two other places in the tail and it's > > puzzling. > > > > The other places I found the rivet length to be inadequate was the > > 5 rivets in HS center hinge bracket VA-146. The thickness is 0.185 > > inches which calls for a -6 but the plans said -5 > > > > 6 rivets that join the rudder horn, the shim plate,R-904 lower rib, > > R-902 spar and the reinforcement place. The plans said AD4-7 but that > > was inadequate so I used -8. > > > > Kent > > Ontario, CA. Almost done with tail. QB fuselage and wings on order > > > > > > Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. http://wine.msn.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent Sorensen <kents(at)snak.com>
Subject: Re: Too short rivets ?
Date: Jan 30, 2004
I ended up doing all the many -6 rivets in the rear HS spar as -7 (and the -7's as -8) using the c-frame. They all came out perfectly. I know the -6 were undoubtedly adequate safety and strength-wise, but here in Canada the work has to be inspected and approved by a government inspector. I like that very much even if it meant that I couldn't actually complete any of the components before moving on to the next one. My concern was simply wanting to do everything by the book. Anyway, the thorough inspection took place today and my work was approved without any problems :-) I now have a fully completed HS and VS. The remaining work on the elevators and rudder will be done soon. Then I just have to find patience for 2-3 weeks before my QB wings and fuselage are scheduled to arrive :-) Thanks Kent On Jan 30, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Ed Pettiss wrote: > > I had similar concerns, despite the manual's cryptic notes that > sometimes > the rivet call-outs are correct even though they appear short. The > "smushing" argument is generally valid, but I think I did the math and > figured there was no way a -6 would result in "proper" driven heads > even if > perfectly mated. > > Before a visit by my EAA Tech Counselor, I called Van's Builder > Support who > essentially said: > > - The .5D and 1.5D specs are not hard requirements, and in fact the > mil-spec > accepts rivets with something like 15% less in either dimension > - Note the many, many rivets in the spar doubler > - Most builders will clench the longer rivets and either leave them > as-is or > re-drill and try again, which reduces the strength far more than using > the > shorter length > - Thousands of airplanes are flying with these rivets, so chill > > For what it's worth, I followed their call-outs for the tail, but > found many > more cases of less-than-perfect choices in the fuselage. By that time > I had > the skill and confidence to go with longer rivets without clenching. > > Ed Pettiss > RV-7A Fuselage > >> From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net> >> Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> To: >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Too short rivets ? >> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:51:08 -0800 >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents(at)snak.com> >> To: >> Subject: RV7-List: Too short rivets ? >> >> Sometimes the HS-609 reinf. bar is too tight a fit against the inside >> curve >> of the 603 and needs to be rounded/edged to fit perfect. The >> slightest >> separation of parts being rivited could cause the rivit to "smush" >> (tech. >> term) between the two parts, thus appearing to shorten the rivit. The >> tightest possible fit is necessary to maintain the airframe integrity >> and >> is >> essentially more important than a slightly short rivit. >> >>> >>> I'm now getting ready to get my work inspected (this is part of the >>> requirements up here in Canada). All that's left is some work on the >>> elevators and the HS rear spar, but I've hit an issue with the plans >>> calling for rivets that are too short. >>> >>> The callout for the joining of HS-603 (the rear spars) and HS-609 >>> (reinforcement bars) say to use AN470AD4-6 here but after setting the >>> first one it seems that the -6 is quite a bit too short to set >>> correctly. If set to fulfill the head width requirement it gets too >>> thin. >>> >>> The combined thickness of the 603 spar and the 609 reinforcement bar >>> is >>> 0.23 inches so the formula would indeed call for a little less than a >>> -7. >>> >>> I'm curious if I'm making a mistake, if I got a thicker stock of >>> reinforcement bar in my kit, or if this is simply a non-issue and the >>> -6 is acceptable after all ? This will have to be inspected and >>> approved so I'm afraid the last choice is not valid.. >>> >>> On the VS back spar the callout is also for -6 but there the combined >>> thickness is just 0.175 inches so the -6 is ok. >>> >>> I have come across this problem two other places in the tail and it's >>> puzzling. >>> >>> The other places I found the rivet length to be inadequate was the >>> 5 rivets in HS center hinge bracket VA-146. The thickness is 0.185 >>> inches which calls for a -6 but the plans said -5 >>> >>> 6 rivets that join the rudder horn, the shim plate,R-904 lower rib, >>> R-902 spar and the reinforcement place. The plans said AD4-7 but >>> that >>> was inadequate so I used -8. >>> >>> Kent >>> Ontario, CA. Almost done with tail. QB fuselage and wings on order >>> >>> >> >> > > Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. > http://wine.msn.com/ > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2004
Subject: [ Greg Gruninger ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Greg Gruninger Subject: Completed RV-8! http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/GGrun5673@gbronline.com.01.31.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2004
Subject: [ Rob Ray ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Rob Ray Subject: RV-FOUR (Editor's Note: WOW!!) http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/smokyray@yahoo.com.01.31.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2004
Subject: [ Jerry Calvert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jerry Calvert Subject: Leather Interior http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv6@cox.net.01.31.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2004
Subject: [ Chalkie Stobbart+ ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Chalkie Stobbart+ Subject: Canopy and winshield attachment with Sika adhesive. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/cajole76@ispwest.com.02.01.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2004
Subject: [ Chalkie Stobbart ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Chalkie Stobbart Subject: RV-List article applicable to all RV's and all Plexiglas canopies. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/chalkboy@mweb.co.za.02.01.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat Upholstery Question
From: tacaruth(at)ralcorp.com
Date: Feb 02, 2004
02/02/2004 09:53:39 AM Hi All, I have a question about upholstering the Van's seat cushions. On the back and bottom seat cushions, how do you make the fabric follow the seat foam? Would velcro attached to the foam and the interior of the fabric work? Should one stitch through the entire seat cushion? How do the professional shops do this? Thanks in advance, Tom RV-7A finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2004
From: Jared Boone <jboone(at)earfeast.com>
rv7-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Price Reduced: RV7 wing and tail kits
[A fellow builder talked some sense into me. I'm now asking $5,500 for my RV7 wing and tail kits.] Reality has set in, and I've decided that now is not the time for me to build an airplane. So I'm selling my RV7 tail and wing kits. Here's your chance to save money on both kits, with some of the work already done, and avoid the factory lead-time on the wing kit. I have done about 70% of the metal work on the tail kit, but have not primed or riveted the pieces yet. A local "Fed" came by and looked at my work and thought it was outstanding. The wing kit is completely untouched. I have inventoried the parts and sorted most of the hardware, and that's it. I ordered the Duckworks landing lights (the square ones, I think), electric trim, and the capacitive fuel sender. The parts are located near Portland, OR and are available for inspection. I would like to sell the kits to someone in the area, and could even arrange delivery within 100 miles or so. I am asking $5,500 for both kits. I also have old preview plans (circa 1998) for the -6 and the -8, if anyone's interested in those. Thanks! - Jared Boone jboone(at)earfeast.com (503) 320-2066 Portland, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Grant" <thomasgrant(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fiberglass elevator tip inatall
Date: Feb 02, 2004
Well, I spent time searching the archives for a little help in best practices installing the tips for the elevators for my emp, but to no avail, so I thought I'd give you guys a shout to see how you attached your elevator tips or more importantly, How did you close up the counter weight arms? Not too long ago I built a 9 emp and the counter weights were very different than the 7. But the 7 is a totally different closure with the counterweight. Did you guys just use the lead as the end cap and epoxy the tip sides to the lead? Or did you cut back the lead and laminate over the front part of the arm, fairing everything out? How did yours turn out, or any comments/tips? Thanks Tom Finishing the emp, waiting on the wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV7 for Flight Simulator
Date: Feb 02, 2004
First of all, I am in no way associated with Flight Factory Simulations! I'm just a fan of MS Flight Simulator. The link below is to a company who has just released an RV-7 for MS Flight Simulator. The cost for the aircraft is $19.00 bucks. The RV-7 comes equipped with a tip-up canopy, 200hp engine and it's a tail dragger. The flight dynamics are fairly realistic and it has a downloadable POH that is included in the price. If you like simulations for practicing approaches, maneuvers or whatever then why not have an RV-7? I spent some time with it and it's was a kick to show my family what my airplane will look like........some day. http://www.flightfactory-simulations.com/ Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA RV-7A QB in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV7 for Flight Simulator
Date: Feb 03, 2004
Has anyone compared the flight characteristics to an RV-6 or RV-7? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Friedman" <frankzip(at)charter.net>
, , , , , , , ,
Subject: RV8 Tail Kit for sale
Date: Feb 03, 2004
Changed projects so RV 8 tail kit for sale. Very little work done. This is a pre punched kit, however it was before the 4130 parts were powder coated. All 4130 parts were primered. Included are preview plans, electric trim kit, 18 years of the RVaitor, Avery temporary assembly pins, 2 construction videos. Vertical stabilizer tip is for a rear position light. Cost for all of this now would be about $1775. Buy it now for $1200. plus shipping before I put it on ebay. Bonus, free delivery within 100 miles of Oshkosh. Yep guys,I'm in OSH, 8-10 minutes to the airport, the downside, Jan temps, 17 days below normal and 4-5 inches of snow last night. Frank at 920-237-3536 or frankzip(at)charter.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Landing Light - What Wing
Date: Feb 03, 2004
Last summer I bought 2 of the Duckworks landing light kits. After getting the first one installed I decided one light and cutting a hole in one perfectly good wing would be enough. After looking at some RV pics lately I've noticed most kits with only one landing light mount them in the right wing. Mine is in the left. Is there a reason when installing only one landing light to install it in the right wing? Is mounting a single light setup in the left a no no for any obvious reason that I have overlooked? Should I just install another light in the right wing now? Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA. RV-7A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Landing Light - What Wing
Date: Feb 04, 2004
Karie I have put them on both sides and the left side with no problems on the 6 and 7 that I have built. I like the light on the left side for taxing, can't see on the right side. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Landing Light - What Wing > > Last summer I bought 2 of the Duckworks landing light kits. After getting the first one installed I decided one light and cutting a hole in one perfectly good wing would be enough. After looking at some RV pics lately I've noticed most kits with only one landing light mount them in the right wing. Mine is in the left. > > Is there a reason when installing only one landing light to install it in the right wing? Is mounting a single light setup in the left a no no for any obvious reason that I have overlooked? Should I just install another light in the right wing now? > > Karie Daniel > Sammamish, WA. > RV-7A QB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Landing Light - What Wing
Date: Feb 03, 2004
For taxing at night is exactly why I put it on the left side, I can't figure out why so many RV's have them on the right wing only? Visit Vans web site and you will notice they install in the right wing also. Thanks, Karie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Landing Light - What Wing > > Karie I have put them on both sides and the left side with no problems on > the 6 and 7 that I have built. I like the light on the left side for taxing, > can't see on the right side. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> > To: ; > Subject: RV7-List: Landing Light - What Wing > > > > > > Last summer I bought 2 of the Duckworks landing light kits. After getting > the first one installed I decided one light and cutting a hole in one > perfectly good wing would be enough. After looking at some RV pics lately > I've noticed most kits with only one landing light mount them in the right > wing. Mine is in the left. > > > > Is there a reason when installing only one landing light to install it in > the right wing? Is mounting a single light setup in the left a no no for any > obvious reason that I have overlooked? Should I just install another light > in the right wing now? > > > > Karie Daniel > > Sammamish, WA. > > RV-7A QB > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2004
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Landing Light - What Wing
Maybe it's to help balance the side-by-side airplanes when being flown solo? I know it's not much weight, but it's that much less trim you have to apply... -RB4 Karie Daniel wrote: > > For taxing at night is exactly why I put it on the left side, I can't figure > out why so many RV's have them on the right wing only? Visit Vans web site > and you will notice they install in the right wing also. > > Thanks, > Karie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net> > To: > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Landing Light - What Wing > > > >> >>Karie I have put them on both sides and the left side with no problems on >>the 6 and 7 that I have built. I like the light on the left side for > > taxing, > >>can't see on the right side. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> >>To: ; >>Subject: RV7-List: Landing Light - What Wing >> >> >> >>> >>>Last summer I bought 2 of the Duckworks landing light kits. After > > getting > >>the first one installed I decided one light and cutting a hole in one >>perfectly good wing would be enough. After looking at some RV pics lately >>I've noticed most kits with only one landing light mount them in the right >>wing. Mine is in the left. >> >>>Is there a reason when installing only one landing light to install it > > in > >>the right wing? Is mounting a single light setup in the left a no no for > > any > >>obvious reason that I have overlooked? Should I just install another light >>in the right wing now? >> >>>Karie Daniel >>>Sammamish, WA. >>>RV-7A QB >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing Light - What Wing
Date: Feb 04, 2004
Thanks everyone for all of the replies. At least I haven't done anything I shouldn't have by putting it in the left wing. Given the comments regarding having one in each wing I might just go ahead and install one in the other wing for max visibility and redundancy. Thanks again, Karie Daniel RV-7A QB Sammamish, WA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing Light - What Wing > --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol > > There isn't much use for a light in the right wing unless you're sitting > in the right seat. With a tandem airplane it doesn't make much > difference but with side by side seating you need to have it on the > side that you'll be sitting on. > > Dave > > Karie Daniel wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > >Last summer I bought 2 of the Duckworks landing light kits. After getting the first one installed I decided one light and cutting a hole in one perfectly good wing would be enough. After looking at some RV pics lately I've noticed most kits with only one landing light mount them in the right wing. Mine is in the left. > > > >Is there a reason when installing only one landing light to install it in the right wing? Is mounting a single light setup in the left a no no for any obvious reason that I have overlooked? Should I just install another light in the right wing now? > > > >Karie Daniel > >Sammamish, WA. > >RV-7A QB > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing Light - What Wing
Date: Feb 04, 2004
You can install mine in both wings without cutting the leading edges... www.creativair.com -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing Light - What Wing --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" Thanks everyone for all of the replies. At least I haven't done anything I shouldn't have by putting it in the left wing. Given the comments regarding having one in each wing I might just go ahead and install one in the other wing for max visibility and redundancy. Thanks again, Karie Daniel RV-7A QB Sammamish, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Date: Feb 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Landing Light - What Wing
Great question. I too pondered this question. My decision was to install only one light and since I sit in the left seat I installed the light in the left wing. I understand that two lights add twice the illumination but you cannot have everything. For what it's worth. Tad Sargent RV7A Fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2004
Subject: [ Jim Jewell ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim Jewell Subject: Dynon Compass Module http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jjewell@telus.net.02.11.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
"Rv8-List" , "Rv7-List" , "Rv6-List"
Subject: Wire Sizes in the wing
Date: Feb 12, 2004
SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS Hi Guys, Just a quick note about something that I've seen in the past month or two that is a little confusing. I've had no less than at least 6 people ask me for some AWG10 wire to use in their wings. Seems someone "out there" has recommened AWG10 or AWG12 for running to the landing lights. To anyone who is currently wiring your plane, don't fall into the trap that some people do.....that being "if some is perfect, more must be better" - with wire sizes, this is just a huge waste of money, weight, resources, etc.. If the recommened wire is AWG16 or AWG18, there is NO reason to use an AWG10. Just a quick FYI, an AWG10 wire running the approximate length of a RVxx wing, will carry something in the area of 800+ Watts. Who has a landing light requiring that much power?!?! Heck, an AWG16 wire should carry well over 180 Watts in that length. Here's the simple breakdown before adding in resistance per 1K. AWG10 - 70amps current carrying capacity AWG12 - 50amps AWG14 - 40amps So, if you are one of those people running those huge AWG10 wires to your wingtips, ask yourselves why?!? Two big reasons NOT to are: 1). Cost--AWG16-18 averages around $.17/ft & AWG10 is around $.50/ft (300% higher). 2). Weight--AWG16-18 averages .005 lbs/ft, where AWG10 = .03lbs/ft. Meaning, for an average set of wings at 2 wires x 18' = 36' x 2 wings = 72' of wire. At AWG16 or 18 the weight would only be about 8oz's total. AWG10 would be over 2 POUNDS!! Anyway, sorry about the rant...I just thought it might be a good idea to bring this to the surface. Somehow, somewhere, there is a movement to put fat wires into the wings, and I don't know why. If you are one of those people, please enlighten me and the rest of us! FYI, I do have AWG12 on up, and will stock some AWG10 in the future, but in all reality, there isn't much need for it. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , ,
Subject: ExperimentalAero has just introduced a new dimpling tool
Date: Feb 15, 2004
Fellow RV builders, ExperimentalAero has just introduced a new dimpling tool the DRDT-2. Take a look at http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2.htm for details. It is professionally designed for the experimental builder in mind. I just wished I had one when I built my RV-4. I understand that Bob Avery (Avery tools) will have a DRDT-2 for demonstration at Sun' N Fun in April. Paul (RV-4/RV-7A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Elevator trim tab bend problems
Date: Feb 16, 2004
Feeling rather incompetent after scrapping my second attempt to bend the tabs on the elevator trim tab. Have read/reread the instructions, studied the photos, read several posts on the subject but still messed it up a second time! Have ordered 2 more trim tab skins from Van's but sure do need to figure out how I am going to do this differently the next time! Right now, I don't have a clue! I have made the wood block wedges as depicted in the pictures referenced in the instructions. Used Scotch brand "Removable Double Sided Tape" on the wedge, the clamping block, and the bench, and can just not seem to keep the assembly from moving as I tap the tab with a block of wood. The tab starts to bend okay but as I have to increase the angle of the wood block that is bending the tab, the whole thing starts to move including the wedge inside. Thus the bend is just a mess!! I have clamped the setup so tightly that I am "squashing" the trailing edge! I seem to be one of only a few who have had this problem?? I found one builder in the archives that just cut the tabs off and fabricated a little rib to take the place of the tab. I guess this would work too but I sure would like to learn to do it like the factory and apparently most others are able to do! I have not even attempted the tabs on the elevator, as I wanted to make sure I had the technique down pat before taking a chance on screwing that up! Oh, and I love the detail on the plans: One set of tabs is supposed to be bent 89 degrees and the other 91 degrees! Yeah, right! Feeling stupid in Alabama, Allen Fulmer 808AF applied for ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2004
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim tab bend problems
Hi Allen, I have now built 4 tails (2 RV6's, 1 RV7, & 1 RV8), so I can sympathize with your pain, but.... Instead of using that pain in the rear method, I've found it easier to do one of two things. 1), use a hand seamer (good one, not the vice grip kind) and simple grab the tab and bend it over. You can get most of the bend, then just "massage the final bit". 2), Cut them off and fabricate a small balsa/wood/foam/fiberglas rib in the end. Easy Peasy! In all likelyhood, if it hasn't worked twice for you, it won't work a third time, so it's time to try something different! Good luck, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:15:58 -0600 > >Feeling rather incompetent after scrapping my second attempt to bend the >tabs on the elevator trim tab. Have read/reread the instructions, studied >the photos, read several posts on the subject but still messed it up a >second time! Have ordered 2 more trim tab skins from Van's but sure do need >to figure out how I am going to do this differently the next time! Right >now, I don't have a clue! > >I have made the wood block wedges as depicted in the pictures referenced in >the instructions. Used Scotch brand "Removable Double Sided Tape" on the >wedge, the clamping block, and the bench, and can just not seem to keep the >assembly from moving as I tap the tab with a block of wood. The tab starts >to bend okay but as I have to increase the angle of the wood block that is >bending the tab, the whole thing starts to move including the wedge inside. >Thus the bend is just a mess!! I have clamped the setup so tightly that I >am "squashing" the trailing edge! > >I seem to be one of only a few who have had this problem?? I found one >builder in the archives that just cut the tabs off and fabricated a little >rib to take the place of the tab. I guess this would work too but I sure >would like to learn to do it like the factory and apparently most others are >able to do! I have not even attempted the tabs on the elevator, as I wanted >to make sure I had the technique down pat before taking a chance on screwing >that up! > >Oh, and I love the detail on the plans: One set of tabs is supposed to be >bent 89 degrees and the other 91 degrees! Yeah, right! > >Feeling stupid in Alabama, > >Allen Fulmer >808AF applied for > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Elevator trim tab bend problems
Date: Feb 17, 2004
Alan, Dont you dare feel stupid in Alabama or elsewhere. I had the same problem and after talking to a couple of repeat offenders I took their advice, cut my losses and build a neat little rib and riveted it into the trim tab, just like all those experienced builders did. They dont like wasting their time. Wait till you build the fuselage, you aint seen nothing yet. David Francis, RV7, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Allen Fulmer [mailto:afulmer(at)charter.net] Subject: RV7-List: Elevator trim tab bend problems Feeling rather incompetent after scrapping my second attempt to bend the tabs on the elevator trim tab. Have read/reread the instructions, studied the photos, read several posts on the subject but still messed it up a second time! Have ordered 2 more trim tab skins from Van's but sure do need to figure out how I am going to do this differently the next time! Right now, I don't have a clue! _========================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator trim tab bend problems
Date: Feb 17, 2004
From: "Dennis Parker" <dennis(at)k2workflow.com>
Allen By no means an expert, but as I have literally just done this task yesterday I thought I would pass a couple of comments. Let me say that I have been fortunate to have the guidance of an experienced builder to assist in the process, otherwise like you, I probably would have an order into Van's for another trim tab. 1. We followed the plans exactly as depicted 2. The size of the wood we used to manufacture the clamp is interesting and may be the issue you are having. I was surprised when Chalkie selected an extremely hard wood which is as at least one and half inches thick to manufacture the wedge. I guess with this extra width to "grip" the tab it helps with the moving issue. The botom line is that the thicker the wedge the better it will grip the tab. 3. I am assuming you noticed the top part of the wedge has an "overlock" on it to stop it sliding when clamped. 4. I agree it is difficult to stop the squashing of the trailing edge and my trim tab trailing edge will have a "unique owner's mark" there to remind me that I was a little to enthusiastic with the clamp. I can live with that, but it can be avoided with care. 5. Another interesting tip on the bending is to bend the bottom tab first. This will create the "89 degree" , 91 degree called for on the plans! Not really, however with this method the top tab will overlap the bottom tab meaning its bend angle will be slightly less than the bottom tab, hence the 89 / 91 call. This is important because with the top tab overlapping the bottom tab you are unlikely to get any run off or moisture going into the tab. 6. Lastly the way the tabs are bent is important. You need the right size block of wood to get in there and apply a uniform bend across the tab. I started the entire bend gently till it got to about 35 degrees or so and then was more forceful to complete the bend down to 90 degrees. Hope this helps Dennis 71041 Tail -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen Fulmer Subject: RV7-List: Elevator trim tab bend problems Feeling rather incompetent after scrapping my second attempt to bend the tabs on the elevator trim tab. Have read/reread the instructions, studied the photos, read several posts on the subject but still messed it up a second time! Have ordered 2 more trim tab skins from Van's but sure do need to figure out how I am going to do this differently the next time! Right now, I don't have a clue! I have made the wood block wedges as depicted in the pictures referenced in the instructions. Used Scotch brand "Removable Double Sided Tape" on the wedge, the clamping block, and the bench, and can just not seem to keep the assembly from moving as I tap the tab with a block of wood. The tab starts to bend okay but as I have to increase the angle of the wood block that is bending the tab, the whole thing starts to move including the wedge inside. Thus the bend is just a mess!! I have clamped the setup so tightly that I am "squashing" the trailing edge! I seem to be one of only a few who have had this problem?? I found one builder in the archives that just cut the tabs off and fabricated a little rib to take the place of the tab. I guess this would work too but I sure would like to learn to do it like the factory and apparently most others are able to do! I have not even attempted the tabs on the elevator, as I wanted to make sure I had the technique down pat before taking a chance on screwing that up! Oh, and I love the detail on the plans: One set of tabs is supposed to be bent 89 degrees and the other 91 degrees! Yeah, right! Feeling stupid in Alabama, Allen Fulmer 808AF applied for == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator trim tab bend problems
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2004
Allen, Bend it 3/4 of the way with the hand seamers, then finish it off with the flush set. The bend portion is exactly the same width as the nice Cleveland-style hand seamers, so it works out really well. See attached link: http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/elev3.htm Scott 7A Wings --- On Mon 02/16, Allen Fulmer < afulmer(at)charter.net > wrote: From: Allen Fulmer [mailto: afulmer(at)charter.net] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:15:58 -0600 Subject: RV7-List: Elevator trim tab bend problems Feeling rather incompetent after scrapping my second attempt to bend the tabs on the elevator trim tab. Have read/reread the instructions, studied the photos, read several posts on the subject but still messed it up a second time! Have ordered 2 more trim tab skins from Van's but sure do need to figure out how I am going to do this differently the next time! Right now, I don't have a clue! I have made the wood block wedges as depicted in the pictures referenced in the instructions. Used Scotch brand "Removable Double Sided Tape" on the wedge, the clamping block, and the bench, and can just not seem to keep the assembly from moving as I tap the tab with a block of wood. The tab starts to bend okay but as I have to increase the angle of the wood block that is bending the tab, the whole thing starts to move including the wedge inside. Thus the bend is just a m ess!! I have clamped the setup so tightly that I am "squashing" the trailing edge! I seem to be one of only a few who have had this problem?? I found one builder in the archives that just cut the tabs off and fabricated a little rib to take the place of the tab. I guess this would work too but I sure would like to learn to do it like the factory and apparently most others are able to do! I have not even attempted the tabs on the elevator, as I wanted to make sure I had the technique down pat before taking a chance on screwing that up! Oh, and I love the detail on the plans: One set of tabs is supposed to be bent 89 degrees and the other 91 degrees! Yeah, right! Feeling stupid in Alabama, Allen Fulmer 808AF applied for er Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com
Date: Feb 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Elevator trim tab bend problems
I wanted to have bent ends on my trim tab just to have something to be proud of! I was able to get a really good job without using any special tools. The trick for me was to rip a piece of oak to fit inside the tab. To begin with, make the piece about 6 inches longer than the tab and put it in a vise to use like an anvil. You can leave that end square (not wedge shaped) to fit the vise better. File the edges of the this piece to about a 1/16 inch radius where you will bend the ends over. Cut a good strong "V" out of another piece of oak and clamp it as shown in Van's drawing to keep the bend from making too big of a radius, and to protect the top and bottoms from bending. Start the bends with your seaming pliers. Then use another block of wood and a hammer to bend the ends up to the piece inside, bending the bottoms first so it will shed water. This way you're hammering against the wood inside rather than the aluminum skin. This works for one end. When the first end is done, cut the end of the oak piece that was in the vise off so that it now just fits inside the length of the trim tab. Radius the end just like the other end and place it inside the trim tab. Now clamp the "V" over the unbent end and place the first end down against the bench and hammer over the new end the same as before. This time the bench supports the hammer blows through the wood inside the trim tab. You should use some tape to keep from marring the aluminum where necessary. Its not as hard as it sounds. It takes a little time, but I'm sure you know by now that sometimes you have to slow down and fuss with some things for a while to get a good job. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH almost done. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2004
Subject: [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim Cone Subject: Jim Cone's Canopy Installation Instructions http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.02.17.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
Subject: Alodine
Date: Feb 17, 2004
I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Alodine
Date: Feb 17, 2004
You want the real stuff when it comes to anti=corrosion. Alodine 1201 is available from Aircraft Spruce along with Metal prep or Alumi prep. I use Metal PERP 79 (P/N 79 -1g)and Alodine (P/N 1201 1-g). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Pflimlin Subject: RV7-List: Alodine I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2004
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Alodine
One place to try is a local auto/body shop or auto parts store. For example, NAPA, CarQuest, etc.. Surprisingly how many Auto/Body Shops and auto paint supply houses carry the stuff. Incidentally, I buy all of mine through Aviall here in Minneapolis. NO outrageous shipping. Also, check your local FBO to see where they get theirs from. Cheers, Stein Bruch, RV6's, Minneapolis. http://www.steinair.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:09:09 -0800 > >You want the real stuff when it comes to anti=corrosion. Alodine 1201 is >available from Aircraft Spruce along with Metal prep or Alumi prep. I use >Metal >PERP 79 (P/N 79 -1g)and Alodine (P/N 1201 1-g). >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Pflimlin >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV7-List: Alodine > > >I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in >Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
Subject: Re: Alodine
Date: Feb 17, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Alodine Stein, I appreciate your input, but as far as our FBO paint prep ; they use sandpaper, waterbased house paint (on sale) and a roller. > > One place to try is a local auto/body shop or auto parts store. For example, NAPA, CarQuest, etc.. > > Surprisingly how many Auto/Body Shops and auto paint supply houses carry the stuff. > > Incidentally, I buy all of mine through Aviall here in Minneapolis. NO outrageous shipping. > > Also, check your local FBO to see where they get theirs from. > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch, > RV6's, Minneapolis. > > http://www.steinair.com > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net> > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:09:09 -0800 > > > > >You want the real stuff when it comes to anti=corrosion. Alodine 1201 is > >available from Aircraft Spruce along with Metal prep or Alumi prep. I use > >Metal > >PERP 79 (P/N 79 -1g)and Alodine (P/N 1201 1-g). > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Pflimlin > >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv9-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV7-List: Alodine > > > > > > > >I am unable to locate the product "Alodine" at any chemical outlet in > >Northern Nevada. Does anyone know of a generic name for this product? > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2004
From: flmike <flmike2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Alodine
Alodine 1201 or Iridite (both brand names) is generically called "chromic acid conversion" or sometimes "chromate conversion". The mil spec number is MIL-C-5541 . As others have said, check your local auto paint shop. PPG and Dupont have the product (as well as others). Here's one of many sites that describe the process: http://www.alphametal.com/chromate.htm The metal prep is just phosphoric acid which can be had at Home Depot or similar. Look for Ospho rust treatment in the paint section. __________________________________ http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2004
Subject: 'e' mail
From: Bill Grady <willtg(at)adelphia.net>
Please remove me from your 'E' Mail list Thank you willtg@adelphia .net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2004
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Fire Extinguisher
I am working on the fuselage and am planning to include a fire extinguisher in the cabin. What size (5 lb, 10 lb, ???) have some of you used? Any suggestions regarding sources for plumbing, etc. so I could also install one to extinguish a fire in the cowl? Dick Tasker, RV9A #90573 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Installing the Static Air System
Date: Feb 23, 2004
I'm looking at the installation instructions for the static air system. The Static Air kit.doc and it looks like this is installed on the bulkhead just aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. However after looking at some installs on other builders web sites it appears to the on the bulkhead near the seat beat anchor, just below the anchors for the static ports. Is the correct bulkhead the one nearest the seatbelt anchors? It looks like the document clearly has it on the one forward of that bulkhead. Thanks, Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA. RV-7A In Progress! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Installing the Static Air System
Date: Feb 24, 2004
Karie, Have a god look at the aft fuselage drawings. The static ports are further aft of the baggage bulkhead, near the shoulder harness anchor points as you suspect. Confusion exists because the RV6 has one less fuselage bulkhead and so their static ports are further forward. The correct installation site is important because it needs to be an area of static air pressure, neither decreased by lift or increased by areas of compression. This is difficult to achieve within the prop blast (and impossible on the wings) and has been found by lots of experimentation at Vans. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Karie Daniel [mailto:karie4(at)comcast.net] Subject: RV7-List: Installing the Static Air System I'm looking at the installation instructions for the static air system. The Static Air kit.doc and it looks like this is installed on the bulkhead just aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. However after looking at some installs on other builders web sites it appears to the on the bulkhead near the seat beat anchor, just below the anchors for the static ports. Is the correct bulkhead the one nearest the seatbelt anchors? It looks like the document clearly has it on the one forward of that bulkhead. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Installing the Static Air System
Date: Feb 24, 2004
The static air entry is near the shoulder harness anchor. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak Firewall Forward ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Installing the Static Air System > > I'm looking at the installation instructions for the static air system. The Static Air kit.doc and it looks like this is installed on the bulkhead just aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. However after looking at some installs on other builders web sites it appears to the on the bulkhead near the seat beat anchor, just below the anchors for the static ports. > > Is the correct bulkhead the one nearest the seatbelt anchors? It looks like the document clearly has it on the one forward of that bulkhead. > > Thanks, > > Karie Daniel > Sammamish, WA. > RV-7A In Progress! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com
Date: Feb 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Installing the Static Air System
Karie, I know there have several replies already, but the "suggested static port location" is shown clearly on DWG 28, the rivet callout drawing. Dan N766DH RV-7A (almost done) In a message dated 2/23/04 11:26:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time, karie4(at)comcast.net writes: > > > I'm looking at the installation instructions for the static air system. The > Static Air kit.doc and it looks like this is installed on the bulkhead just > aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. However after looking at some > installs on other builders web sites it appears to the on the bulkhead near the seat > beat anchor, just below the anchors for the static ports. > > Is the correct bulkhead the one nearest the seatbelt anchors? It looks like > the document clearly has it on the one forward of that bulkhead. > > Thanks, > > Karie Daniel > Sammamish, WA. > RV-7A In Progress! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 2004
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: Installing the Static Air System
Karie, Let us know what Van's says after speaking to them. I already fitted my ports, and (like an idiot) opted for the location that came with the kit. Looking back and reading these posts, I've a feeling I have messed up. Thanks! Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (313) 203-4714 >>> karie4(at)comcast.net 02/23/04 11:26PM >>> I'm looking at the installation instructions for the static air system. The Static Air kit.doc and it looks like this is installed on the bulkhead just aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. However after looking at some installs on other builders web sites it appears to the on the bulkhead near the seat beat anchor, just below the anchors for the static ports. Is the correct bulkhead the one nearest the seatbelt anchors? It looks like the document clearly has it on the one forward of that bulkhead. Thanks, Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA. RV-7A In Progress! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Franz Fux" <franz(at)lastfrontierheli.com>
Subject: Installing the Static Air System
Date: Feb 24, 2004
Just look at drawing # 28, detail E, Franz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Taylor Subject: Re: RV7-List: Installing the Static Air System Karie, Let us know what Van's says after speaking to them. I already fitted my ports, and (like an idiot) opted for the location that came with the kit. Looking back and reading these posts, I've a feeling I have messed up. Thanks! Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (313) 203-4714 >>> karie4(at)comcast.net 02/23/04 11:26PM >>> I'm looking at the installation instructions for the static air system. The Static Air kit.doc and it looks like this is installed on the bulkhead just aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. However after looking at some installs on other builders web sites it appears to the on the bulkhead near the seat beat anchor, just below the anchors for the static ports. Is the correct bulkhead the one nearest the seatbelt anchors? It looks like the document clearly has it on the one forward of that bulkhead. Thanks, Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA. RV-7A In Progress! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Installing the Static Air System
Date: Feb 24, 2004
Thanks for all of the replies. As noticed by several other builders, drawing #28 does point this out clearly to be the more aft bulkhead (closest to the seatbelt anchor). This doesn't really match up to the unclear one page document that is included with the static kit but the drawing on the plans page would be correct. It actually calls it the "suggested" placement for the static port. You could assume and most probably know already that it should work in either place though. Following Vans suggestion and it really seems more of a likely place anyway, I'll be installing it there. I would say that it would be nice to have a little blurb on the static kit instructions that references drawing 28 but that would really be whining.......wouldn't it? :-) Thanks again everyone, Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA RV-7A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franz Fux" <franz(at)lastfrontierheli.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Installing the Static Air System > > Just look at drawing # 28, detail E, > Franz > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Taylor > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Installing the Static Air System > > > Karie, > > Let us know what Van's says after speaking to them. I already fitted my > ports, and (like an idiot) opted for the location that came with the > kit. Looking back and reading these posts, I've a feeling I have messed > up. > > Thanks! > > Mark Taylor > CAD Technical Specialist > (313) 203-4714 > > >>> karie4(at)comcast.net 02/23/04 11:26PM >>> > > I'm looking at the installation instructions for the static air system. > The Static Air kit.doc and it looks like this is installed on the > bulkhead just aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. However after > looking at some installs on other builders web sites it appears to the > on the bulkhead near the seat beat anchor, just below the anchors for > the static ports. > > Is the correct bulkhead the one nearest the seatbelt anchors? It looks > like the document clearly has it on the one forward of that bulkhead. > > Thanks, > > Karie Daniel > Sammamish, WA. > RV-7A In Progress! > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > --- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Microfasteners Torx Screws
Date: Feb 25, 2004
Torx Screw Torx Screws ----- Original Message ----- From: John Fleisher Subject: Re: Please comment on this discussion found below 1. The 8-32 screws before the change had a T20 recess, after have T15. Much simpler way to be sure which ones you have than a torque test. 2. The threads are rolled, not cut. 3. Inserting stainless steel screws into the carbon steel locknuts used on nutplates is difficult. Galling occurs. This is almost surely the reason that you need Torx type drive in the first place; without the seizing up that happens between stainless and carbon steel, phillips drive would be more than adequate. Nutplates with anti-seizing compound installed by the manufacturer are available, as is the compound itself; using it might help reduce problems. 4. Torx is a registered trademark of Camcar Division of Textron. The basic patent on the original torx design has expired. Many manufacturers, including the manufacturer of our screws, make equivalent screws, calling them 6-lobe or star drive. It looks as if the email chain we're responding to here started earlier; if there are other issues, we would be glad to try to respond. Thanks for passing this to us for comment. John Fleisher Micro Fasteners Inc 24 Cokesbury Rd Ste 2 Lebanon, NJ 08833 800-892-6917 ----- Original Message ----- From: LarryRobertHelming To: info(at)microfasteners.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 7:00 AM Subject: Please comment on this discussion Interesting. I bought some about 18 months ago. How would anyone who bought these before the change over know if they got screws with the bad design that the heads twist off of or the new improved ones. Is there a torque range for testing their strength? I understand these screws are not structural. And the threads are not rolled but cut in. Someone with knowledge please correct any of this that is wrong. Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Calhoun" <roncal(at)earthlink.net> To: Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:44 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Screws > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" > > Mickey, these were made especially for the rv list. The first batch > heads twisted off, but they replaced all orders with new ones with > smaller torx. And will probably use then everywhere else > when I paint. > You can go direct to them at > http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSCFCMXS.cfm > > They are listed as 6 lobe drive screws, but are Torx. I suspect it has > something to do with avoiding royalty payments for using the trademarked > name "Torx". > > Ron Calhoun > RV-4 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Screws > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > While installing the phillips screws into the various nutplates, I got > to asking myself if there are aviation quality Torx screws that could be > used instead. Does anyone know of a supplier for Torx or at a minimum > some other type of hex head screw that won't slip off? > > I even used Torx on my workbenches - they are great. > > Thanks, > Mickey > > PS: In case you don't know what the heck I'm talking > about, here is a photo: > > http://rv8.ch/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=workshop&id=DSCN7925 > > or in case that wraps on your screen: > > http://www.rv8.ch/albums/workshop/DSCN7925.jpg > > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>

Subject: Back up to Dynon
Date: Feb 25, 2004
Hi All, Trying to finalize the panel. I have spec'd in the Dynon and would like to know what others are using or planning on using for backups. At this point I have penciled in a 2.25" Alt, AS, T&B, and VSI. Sound reasonable? Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: Back up to Dynon
Date: Feb 26, 2004
Darwin, add in a compass and your selection will comply with the FAA regs for IFR "standby" limited panel. If you keep up a high level of skill in flying on a limited panel (that is no artificial horizon) then you will live. You might consider adding in a second AH, in which case you can delete the T&B, live longer and be just a little poorer. Now if you add up the total bill, it might look very close to the cost of a second Dynon. If you have a second electrical power source now you have a very economical and very safe IFR package. If you are intending VFR ops only, then you need no standby instruments at all, you will never be without a horizon and have a bigger bank account. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn(at)cox.net] RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV7-List: Back up to Dynon Hi All, Trying to finalize the panel. I have spec'd in the Dynon and would like to know what others are using or planning on using for backups. At this point I have penciled in a 2.25" Alt, AS, T&B, and VSI. Sound reasonable? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2004
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor(at)msxi.com>
Subject: Re: Back up to Dynon
The VSI isn't going to be much help since it's telling you your climb rate half an hour ago! You need to figure out the type of flying you'll be doing, and whether or not you'd be personally comfortable with the instruments you have left... Imagine, bumpy IMC, in the dark, down to minimums? Mark Taylor CAD Technical Specialist (313) 203-4714 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
,
Subject: Instruments For Sale
Date: Feb 26, 2004
I have a few items for sale. Here is a list: ICOM A-200 GARMIN GTX327 AMERIKING AK-350 GPS 196 Altimeter United VSI MONROY ADT-200 DYNON All items are brand new. See a detailed list here: http://www.affordablepanels.com/forsale2.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2004
From: Jeff Cours <rv-j(at)moriarti.org>
Subject: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
I was dimpling the ribs for a 7A's vertical stabilizer last night and ran into a problem with the two holes in the top rib nearest the leading edge: it's just too narrow for my squeezer. (In fact, it's a little too narrow for the female dimple die with it's long-ish shaft.) My next thought was to try countersinking. I tried it on some scrap aluminum that was about the same thickness as the rib stock but wound up enlarging the hole. Since the rib flange is convex in that area, which might make it tough to adjust the countersink properly in the first place, I'm not sure I really want to try countersinking there till I've gotten a bit better with that tool. Which brings me back to dimpling. Has anyone else has run into this problem? Will the Avery vice-grip dimpler will get into that space? My other idea is to try to make a close quarters dimpler by modifying a C-clamp. Thanks in advance! Jeff C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2004
From: cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
jeff the pop-rivet dimple set is handy in this situation. Even then you can't use the finishing nail as the stem on the dimpler. But you can just lace the two dimpling dies onto a shaft or nail and use a pair of visegrips to squeeze the two together. This gets the dimpling squared away. The rivet setting is also an exercise. Snag a handful of 3/32 blind rivets and use them. You are going to fiberglass the tips on anyway. The filler will hide. Only YOU will know for sure. imho cary rhodes --- Jeff Cours wrote: > > > I was dimpling the ribs for a 7A's vertical > stabilizer last night and > ran into a problem with the two holes in the top rib > nearest the leading > edge: it's just too narrow for my squeezer. (In > fact, it's a little too > narrow for the female dimple die with it's long-ish > shaft.) > > My next thought was to try countersinking. I tried > it on some scrap > aluminum that was about the same thickness as the > rib stock but wound up > enlarging the hole. Since the rib flange is convex > in that area, which > might make it tough to adjust the countersink > properly in the first > place, I'm not sure I really want to try > countersinking there till I've > gotten a bit better with that tool. > > Which brings me back to dimpling. Has anyone else > has run into this > problem? Will the Avery vice-grip dimpler will get > into that space? My > other idea is to try to make a close quarters > dimpler by modifying a > C-clamp. > > Thanks in advance! > Jeff C. > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Take a piece of 1/4 plate steel. Drill a 3/32 hole near one of the corners. Countersink the hole. Now place this into the nose of the rib, place a 3/32 rivet into the rib and plate. Hold on to the plate and hit the rivet a good hit with a hammer. You will now have a dimple in the rib. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Cours" <rv-j(at)moriarti.org> Subject: RV7-List: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab > > I was dimpling the ribs for a 7A's vertical stabilizer last night and > ran into a problem with the two holes in the top rib nearest the leading > edge: it's just too narrow for my squeezer. (In fact, it's a little too > narrow for the female dimple die with it's long-ish shaft.) > > My next thought was to try countersinking. I tried it on some scrap > aluminum that was about the same thickness as the rib stock but wound up > enlarging the hole. Since the rib flange is convex in that area, which > might make it tough to adjust the countersink properly in the first > place, I'm not sure I really want to try countersinking there till I've > gotten a bit better with that tool. > > Which brings me back to dimpling. Has anyone else has run into this > problem? Will the Avery vice-grip dimpler will get into that space? My > other idea is to try to make a close quarters dimpler by modifying a > C-clamp. > > Thanks in advance! > Jeff C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Grant" <thomasgrant(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Trim Tab deflection
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Does anyone have any idea of how much travel both up and down the trim tab is supposed to move? I searched the archives and found some old messages that indicate you should have somewhere in the neighborhood of 35=BA deflection? I opted for the electric trim and get approximately 36mm travel on the push-rod, front to back. I can=92t even get close to 35 =BA . Have you guys just set the arm length to mid-stoke and adjust the trim tab at level, in-trail? I have heard that more authority for up trim is better. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
From: "Adam Boggs" <boggs(at)aircrafter.org>
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Jeff Cours wrote: > > I was dimpling the ribs for a 7A's vertical stabilizer last night and > ran into a problem with the two holes in the top rib nearest the leading > edge: it's just too narrow for my squeezer. (In fact, it's a little too > narrow for the female dimple die with it's long-ish shaft.) > > Which brings me back to dimpling. Has anyone else has run into this > problem? Will the Avery vice-grip dimpler will get into that space? My > other idea is to try to make a close quarters dimpler by modifying a > C-clamp. > > Thanks in advance! > Jeff C. > I'm pretty sure I was able to dimple this with a vice grip dimpler I got with my avery toolkit. The dies welded to the vice grips are much flatter than normal dies, and if I recall, will fit in there ok. I got them dimpled, but now have no idea how to rivet them without using blind rivets. If you think getting dimple dies in there is tough, try a bucking bar! Like many things, I put it off until later. :) -Adam rv7a wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2004
Jeff, I had a little bit unorthodox method that I picked up from another builder. See attached: http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/rudder2.htm Scott 7A Wings --- On Fri 02/27, Jeff Cours < rv-j(at)moriarti.org > wrote: From: Jeff Cours [mailto: rv-j(at)moriarti.org] Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:09:31 -0800 Subject: RV7-List: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab I was dimpling the ribs for a 7A's vertical stabilizer last night and ran into a problem with the two holes in the top rib nearest the leading edge: it's just too narrow for my squeezer. (In fact, it's a little too narrow for the female dimple die with it's long-ish shaft.) My next thought was to try countersinking. I tried it on some scrap aluminum that was about the same thickness as the rib stock but wound up enlarging the hole. Since the rib flange is convex in that area, which might make it tough to adjust the countersink properly in the first place, I'm not sure I really want to try countersinking there till I've gotten a bit better with that tool. Which brings me back to dimpling. Has anyone else has run into this problem? Will the Avery vice-grip dimpler will get into that space? My other idea is to try to make a close quarters dimpler by modifyi ng a C-clamp. Thanks in advance! Jeff C. igest/rv7-list Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Adam, Take a look at ExperimentalAero Builders tips http://www.experimentalaero.com/Builders%20Tips.htm Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Adam Boggs To: Jeff Cours ; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab Jeff Cours wrote: > > I was dimpling the ribs for a 7A's vertical stabilizer last night and > ran into a problem with the two holes in the top rib nearest the leading > edge: it's just too narrow for my squeezer. (In fact, it's a little too > narrow for the female dimple die with it's long-ish shaft.) > > Which brings me back to dimpling. Has anyone else has run into this > problem? Will the Avery vice-grip dimpler will get into that space? My > other idea is to try to make a close quarters dimpler by modifying a > C-clamp. > > Thanks in advance! > Jeff C. > I'm pretty sure I was able to dimple this with a vice grip dimpler I got with my avery toolkit. The dies welded to the vice grips are much flatter than normal dies, and if I recall, will fit in there ok. I got them dimpled, but now have no idea how to rivet them without using blind rivets. If you think getting dimple dies in there is tough, try a bucking bar! Like many things, I put it off until later. :) -Adam rv7a wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab deflection
Date: Feb 28, 2004
Check your builders manual; towards the back the both up and down travel are mentioned along with the rudder,aileron and elevator deflections. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Grant" <thomasgrant(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV7-List: Trim Tab deflection > > > Does anyone have any idea of how much travel both up and down the trim tab > is supposed to move? I searched the archives and found some old messages > that indicate you should have somewhere in the neighborhood of 35=BA > deflection? I opted for the electric trim and get approximately 36mm travel > on the push-rod, front to back. I can=92t even get close to 35 =BA . Have you > guys just set the arm length to mid-stoke and adjust the trim tab at level, > in-trail? I have heard that more authority for up trim is better. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Bahrns" <bahrns(at)effingham.net>
Subject: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
Date: Feb 29, 2004
The vise grip squeezer will do most all of those places. You will also have to have a thin nosed squeezer. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Cours Subject: RV7-List: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab I was dimpling the ribs for a 7A's vertical stabilizer last night and ran into a problem with the two holes in the top rib nearest the leading edge: it's just too narrow for my squeezer. (In fact, it's a little too narrow for the female dimple die with it's long-ish shaft.) My next thought was to try countersinking. I tried it on some scrap aluminum that was about the same thickness as the rib stock but wound up enlarging the hole. Since the rib flange is convex in that area, which might make it tough to adjust the countersink properly in the first place, I'm not sure I really want to try countersinking there till I've gotten a bit better with that tool. Which brings me back to dimpling. Has anyone else has run into this problem? Will the Avery vice-grip dimpler will get into that space? My other idea is to try to make a close quarters dimpler by modifying a C-clamp. Thanks in advance! Jeff C. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 2004
From: Jeff Cours <rv-j(at)moriarti.org>
Subject: Re: dimpling tip rib in vertical stab
Thanks for all the excellent suggestions, everyone. I wound up stopping by Allied Ironworks Friday evening and they were good enough to let me root through their scrap pile, so now I have a plate for dimpling and another for back-riveting. Dimpling in the countersunk hole went smoothly using the plunger from the C frame as the male form. I haven't decided yet how to handle riveting. I may go the pop-rivet-and bondo approach, may use an undrilled corner of the steel plate for a bucking bar and drive the rivet, or may go back to the idea of modifying a C clamp into a squeezer. I'll deal with that issue once I've figured out how to prime the parts. thanks again, Jeff C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
"Rv8-List" , "Rv9-List" , "Rv-List"
Subject: Quick Fit Tabs for Ground Blocks
Date: Mar 03, 2004
Hi Guys, Just a quick update. Awhile back people were looking for the ground block tabs separate from fuse blocks and pre-made ground blocks. I now have several hundred in stock. They have 10 tabs, (2 double rows of 5), are the 1/4 faston, with holes for mounting to a brass bar, bulkhead, etc.. Basically, you can "roll your own" ground blocks now, and it's much cheaper than buying one already made. I thought about making ground blocks, but it's easier just to sell the tabs, and let the builder make their own if they like. They are listed under "Accessories" on my website. Also, under switches you'll see some new Vinyl Toggle switch boots in 6 colors. They really dress up the switches nice! Last thing.....I now have all the 4 conductor shielded wire in stock for the Dynon Harnesses, and all harnesses/kits from this point forward will be delivered with Shielded wire as standard. Happy building and have a great day. Cheers, Stein Bruch http://www.steinair.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Mar 03, 2004
DNA: not not archive
Subject: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics...
Dear Listers, First let me say that I normally don't condone the sharing of warnings about Internet viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. I don't want to start a storm of discussion regarding computer viruses on the Lists, so please just note the information below and refrain from commenting to the List. The circumstances I describe below are disturbing enough that I felt an explanation is necessary. That being said... There is a new email-bourne virus running rampant on the Internet that is cleverly disguising itself as legitimate email warning of such things as: "your email account is disabled because of unauthorized access" "Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail content) outgoing from your e-mail account" "Probably, you have been infected by a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer safe, follow the instructions." "Our main mailing server will be temporary unavailable for next two days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to configure our free auto-forwarding service." All of these messages include an attachment that you are instructed to click upon to "Get more information", "clean the virus from your system", or "check your system for infections". These enclosures all contain a virus that will infect your system and propagate even more copies of the original message. The disturbing part of these messages is that they appear to be coming from very legitimate addresses and have very legitimate, convincing dialog. For example, I have received a number of them today that appear to be from "support(at)matronics.com", "management(at)matronics.com", "administration(at)matronics.com", and "staff(at)matronics.com". The text of the messages seems believable enough, and given the forged source address, seem even more legitimate. Please be assured that no one at Matronics.com will be sending you these kinds of messages. If you receive one, it is a spam/virus that has forged headers and was sent to you from someone other than Matronics. Delete the message and the attachment promptly. Invest in a copy of Norton Antivirus and keep the definitions up dated on a daily basis. Again, I want to stress that I *DO NOT* want a big discussion of viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. Please do not reply to this email with any comments. You may write to me directly at dralle(at)matronics.com if you wish, but do not include the List. Since many of these appear to come from matronics.com, I wanted to assure everyone that Matronics wasn't the real source of these messages. Let's be careful out there and keep those virus definitions up to date! Today alone, the Matronics spam filter and virus blocking appliance has filtered out 11,550 spam messages and 375 viruses! That's just in an 18 hour period! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rob" <edmist_r(at)bellsouth.net>
"Rv8-List" , "Rv9-List" , "Rv-List"
Subject: .
Date: Mar 04, 2004
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2004
"Rv8-List" , "Rv9-List" , "Rv-List"
From: George Frost <ghfrost(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Mag impulse assembly
I need an impulse assembly for a slick magneto, part number M3529. Anyone have an extra one for sale or can suggest a source? AC Spruce is out of stock. George ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2004
From: Charlie England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
"rv7-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: -7 wing leading edge 'glitch' ?
-7/-8 builders, Has anyone noticed a slight dip about an inch above & below (back of the actual apex) the rolled leading edge of their tank skins & leading edge skins? While handling one of my cleco'd tanks, I felt the dip, & thought I had somehow dented the leading edge. On further inspection, the 'dips' are slight valleys running the entire length of the LE & are identical on all 4 skins. On the top side, it's about where the 2nd rivet will be in each rib. It seems unlikely that it's due to the ribs, because there is no difference in the valley mid way between ribs. I might be good at messing stuff up, but I ain't THAT good. Thanks, Charlie

September 26, 2003 - March 06, 2004

RV7-Archive.digest.vol-ae