RV7-Archive.digest.vol-ah

December 07, 2004 - June 15, 2005



      
      
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Date: Dec 07, 2004
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting Question
On 12/07 11:54, Brian Meyette wrote: > What's the source of these PART dimple dies you guys are referring to? > brian http://www.rivettools.com -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <dave(at)coltnet.net>
Subject: Re: Riveting Question (PART website)
Date: Dec 07, 2004
Brian, I believe they are referring to the following website http://www.rivettools.com/ Dave > What's the source of these PART dimple dies you guys are referring to? > brian > http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2004
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting Question
On 12/07 11:54, Brian Meyette wrote: > > What's the source of these PART dimple dies you guys are referring to? > brian > http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm http://www.rivettools.com And I was mistaken, the rivet set was not free but was discounted when I purchased my squeezer/rivet set combo. The discount is still available if you purchase both at the same time. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sportpilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
Date: Dec 07, 2004
use masking tape, 1.5 inch works here.. get the better type as it is thicker.. they make some special tape for it but mine came out exactly like the factory (quick build) once I used the tape, also be sure and don't set the gun too high.. Danny.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Another riveting question > > > Ok so I built my VS this W/E and I have never driven a solid rivet > before. They all came out OK except that the flush rivet set marks the > skins when driving the 426's. Nothing a rub with a scotchbite pad won't > take out so presumably no big deal? > > I was doing the riveting and bucking by myself which is a little > trickier because the 2x gun tends to slide around but as the rivets are > flush I can't see how you can aviod marking the skins? > > Am I doing something wrong or is this just a fact of life? > > Thanks > > Frank > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another riveting question
Date: Dec 07, 2004
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Thanks to all who answered... I'm thinking I may have had the pressure wound up a bit high...I was running 50psi for the 426's (2X gun) and yes the idea of the rivet set bouncing would make sense...Thats why the gun moves around...DUH!...I guess I might have been trying too hard to push back on the rivet with the bucking bar on my fingertips. It seemed to need quite a bit of force to form the shop head. From the wonderful replies I got I assume I need less pressure, both from the gun and the fingers Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sportpilot Subject: Re: RV7-List: Another riveting question use masking tape, 1.5 inch works here.. get the better type as it is thicker.. they make some special tape for it but mine came out exactly like the factory (quick build) once I used the tape, also be sure and don't set the gun too high.. Danny.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Another riveting question > > > Ok so I built my VS this W/E and I have never driven a solid rivet > before. They all came out OK except that the flush rivet set marks the > skins when driving the 426's. Nothing a rub with a scotchbite pad > won't take out so presumably no big deal? > > I was doing the riveting and bucking by myself which is a little > trickier because the 2x gun tends to slide around but as the rivets > are flush I can't see how you can aviod marking the skins? > > Am I doing something wrong or is this just a fact of life? > > Thanks > > Frank > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , ,
Subject: Fuel tank to main skin gap?
Date: Dec 07, 2004
Fellow builders, I just placed my finished left fuel tank (RV-7A) on my wing and noticed a gap between the aft edge of the tank skin and the forward edge of the main skins on my wing (top and bottom gap equal). I opted to wait to match drill and dimple the leading edge junction until after sealing the tanks. I have measured the edge distance of the screw holes in the tank skin and compared this to the center distance from the nutplate holes (countersinked) to the forward edge of the main tank skins, both are 5/16". So what this means is that there is a buildup of tolerances or ProSeal that is pushing the tank forward slightly. I would say that the gap is approximately 0.040. However the tank to leading edge junction (at the nose) is pretty much of a perfect match. So the screw holes in the tank don't line up with the nutplates perfectly. I was generous with "buttering" the ProSeal on both the "Z" bracket and tank rib aft flanges but not over generous. I know there is a very thin layer of ProSeal that maybe contributing to this gap, but not that much. When I built my RV-4 (old school) you could line everything up without any gaps because you put all the hole. With the match punched, you can't adjust things at all. What have other experienced after mounting the tanks. Paul (RV-4/RV-7A) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2004
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap?
You will have to remove the excess pro-seal. There is no room for it . I have built six sets of tanks and have learn the hard way myself. Merems wrote: > >Fellow builders, > >I just placed my finished left fuel tank (RV-7A) on my wing and noticed a gap between the aft edge of the tank skin and the forward edge of the main skins on my wing (top and bottom gap equal). I opted to wait to match drill and dimple the leading edge junction until after sealing the tanks. I have measured the edge distance of the screw holes in the tank skin and compared this to the center distance from the nutplate holes (countersinked) to the forward edge of the main tank skins, both are 5/16". So what this means is that there is a buildup of tolerances or ProSeal that is pushing the tank forward slightly. I would say that the gap is approximately 0.040. However the tank to leading edge junction (at the nose) is pretty much of a perfect match. So the screw holes in the tank don't line up with the nutplates perfectly. I was generous with "buttering" the ProSeal on both the "Z" bracket and tank rib aft flanges but not over generous. I know there is a very thin laye! >r of ProSeal that maybe contributing to this gap, but not that much. When I built my RV-4 (old school) you could line everything up without any gaps because you put all the hole. With the match punched, you can't adjust things at all. > >What have other experienced after mounting the tanks. > >Paul (RV-4/RV-7A) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ZLcCMs8dZO9AWUbLE0uKUlw+p6gS9chVgG7Lvo7QVvbdUM5LmxVGb5hH/TQcraR+vKAgA5w7dtff8QSBCd6GOHcT2a+xi4Ci/OYqJSHdSGL1jNfUX5HiAI0SHWenKFs2JE9Gh29K5jEDF1tflyjfD+9qLWAWwvDoDrb3uL+B18w;
Date: Dec 08, 2004
From: Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap?
It may not necessarily be a build-up of ProSeal and I'm aware of several people who actually filed their z-brackets to compensate. When I was building my first tank, I had the same problem and on the archives, I read several similar problems. Then I did a simple thing and the problem disappeared. I returned the jack to the wing jig, centered it on the spar, and gave it a couple of cranks. There was a minor pop, and all of a sudden the tank fit perfectly. The "clue" here is the fact the nose gap is perfect but the gap appears to increase as you go farther aft. Since sharing this information in the spring, I've seen several people have the same problem, and giving the spar a little help cured it. I can't guarantee this is your problem, but I would at least try it before taking any other "invasive" action. It's worked for other people. Bob St. Paul --- Norman Younie wrote: > > > > >Fellow builders, > > > >I just placed my finished left fuel tank (RV-7A) on > my wing and noticed a gap between the aft edge of > the tank skin and the forward edge of the main skins > on my wing (top and bottom gap equal). I opted to > wait to match drill and dimple the leading edge > junction until after sealing the tanks. I have > measured the edge distance of the screw holes in the > tank skin and compared this to the center distance > from the nutplate holes (countersinked) to the > forward edge of the main tank skins, both are 5/16". > So what this means is that there is a buildup of > tolerances or ProSeal that is pushing the tank > forward slightly. I would say that the gap is > approximately 0.040. However the tank to leading > edge junction (at the nose) is pretty much of a > perfect match. So the screw holes in the tank don't > line up with the nutplates perfectly. I was > generous with "buttering" the ProSeal on both the > "Z" bracket and tank rib aft flanges but not over > generous. I know there is a very thin lay! > e! > >r of ProSeal that maybe contributing to this gap, > but not that much. When I built my RV-4 (old school) > you could line everything up without any gaps > because you put all the hole. With the match > punched, you can't adjust things at all. > > > >What have other experienced after mounting the > tanks. > > > >Paul (RV-4/RV-7A) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=zIy7f62NSqE9yvVXmU7pRcLWQ13b7K3CrIcxkSykYXSKEqdX2yC9NTRO+FLhuP3gh8hXxLj2C67rWYyqC95aoMl0hAgjsWiGPDiN47cQwk1ULsAVs+SBG0RArfTGxPWknerc6O6U7vrnEC6vdea0sRz6BEazy0kroAQJYL+32TI;
Date: Dec 08, 2004
From: Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap?
I also left one thing out. In working and mounting my second tank, I came up with a process of mounting it that helped. Initially, I just plopped it on and looked at all the gaps that didn't fit right etc. Then, for the heck of it, I tried a bunch of different combinations of things to make the mounting process more precise. I can't say for sure this will work for you, but I can say for sure that I've found this procedure to result in the best fit. It's worth trying. 1)Run a bolt in the middle of the most inboard zbracket to line things up. The gap between the leading edge will be wide, but don't worry! It'll work out. 2)Install bolts in the upper holes of all zbrackets to spar connections 3) Install bolts on the bottom side of all connections. 4) Install the middle bolt on all zbracket to spar connections. This will pull the tank down and I find the gap between leading edge and tank becomes perfect (assuming you used the Checkoway method). 5)Add the screws on the skin Try this in addition to my previous note about adding the support to the jig and see what happens. BC __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LARRY RUSH" <K9HXT(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fuel injection system
Date: Dec 08, 2004
I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the std fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the drawings I have. Thanks, Larry, RV-7A working ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel injection system
Date: Dec 08, 2004
From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com>
Larry, Would you be referring to the boost pump by chance as the fuel pump is on the engine at the lower left corner on the accessory section. You are welcome to visit our web site a see our engine packages. Especially the ALL NEW Lycoming IO-390X. Our address is bpa(at)bpaengines.com. Or call us. We would be more than happy to discuss your engine needs in detail. Sincerely, Allen Barrett Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 [918] 835-1089 phone [918] 835-1754 fax www.bpaengines.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LARRY RUSH Subject: RV7-List: Fuel injection system I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the std fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the drawings I have. Thanks, Larry, RV-7A working ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Speaking of Aerosport
Date: Dec 08, 2004
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Speaking of aerosport, A couple of snippets they gave me.... 1) The Superior parts built engine has a much better warranty as far as using premium autogas. 2) They can supply the flstic FF sump for $500 less than their standard FF cast sump. 3) They are happy to retard the Max advance on the LS ignition to give a better detonation margin for use with 92 octane...I was going to have them set the max to 40 as opposed to the 45 deg standard. Can't afford my engine till about June next year (to tight to borrow money), just hoping the price doesn't sky rocket due to the poor US exchange rate? Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Deburring
Date: Dec 08, 2004
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hi All, So having built a different manufacturer's plane before one brings a few ideas that are not part of the Van's verbage...The fact that my old Zenair zodiac (made entirely of non alclad 6061) is ONLY primed between the mating surfaces being one of them. So how about this...When deburring I found that if I use a sharp drill there is very little burr on the drilled parts. Using the deburring tool seems to have a very small improvement according to the "finger" test. I have been experimenting and found that I can get much better (and faster) results by rubbing with a fine scotchbite pad (or even the very fine scotchbrite flap wheels mounted in a drill). The rason I came up with this is that Zenair suggested beburing by rubbing a file across the holes....A little too scratchy for me but the scotch brite pad/wheel gives much smoother results. Of course it does remove a bit more of the alclad so I tend to prime a little more with my rattle can than I otherwise would. Any thoughts on this approach good or bad? Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cammie Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net>
Subject: Deburring
Date: Dec 08, 2004
I've found the scotchbrite to work great for deburring, especially on the skins. (I prime them) Cammie Hi All, So how about this...When deburring I found that if I use a sharp drill there is very little burr on the drilled parts. Using the deburring tool seems to have a very small improvement according to the "finger" test. I have been experimenting and found that I can get much better (and faster) results by rubbing with a fine scotchbite pad (or even the very fine scotchbrite flap wheels mounted in a drill). The rason I came up with this is that Zenair suggested beburing by rubbing a file across the holes....A little too scratchy for me but the scotch brite pad/wheel gives much smoother results. Of course it does remove a bit more of the alclad so I tend to prime a little more with my rattle can than I otherwise would. Any thoughts on this approach good or bad? Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron(at)aerojet.com>
Subject: Deburring
Date: Dec 08, 2004
I also find that a drill bit seems to do a better job than the deburring tool, especially on the smaller holes. I think Van's even recommends this method somewhere in the build manual, if I recall correctly. Drill bits are too long to fit in some spots - I've also used a countersink bit to reach in tight spots (by hand). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RV7-List: Deburring Hi All, So having built a different manufacturer's plane before one brings a few ideas that are not part of the Van's verbage...The fact that my old Zenair zodiac (made entirely of non alclad 6061) is ONLY primed between the mating surfaces being one of them. So how about this...When deburring I found that if I use a sharp drill there is very little burr on the drilled parts. Using the deburring tool seems to have a very small improvement according to the "finger" test. I have been experimenting and found that I can get much better (and faster) results by rubbing with a fine scotchbite pad (or even the very fine scotchbrite flap wheels mounted in a drill). The rason I came up with this is that Zenair suggested beburing by rubbing a file across the holes....A little too scratchy for me but the scotch brite pad/wheel gives much smoother results. Of course it does remove a bit more of the alclad so I tend to prime a little more with my rattle can than I otherwise would. Any thoughts on this approach good or bad? Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bellwa77(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 11, 2004
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
Hi Folks I'm a little late to this thread but I thought I'd add my two cents. I noticed that with the flush set that I was also getting marks on the skin. They weren't smileys, just a scuffing sort of mark. I was thinking that maybe my flush set has some imperfections or something. I couldn't really see anything wrong with it. I was about to order a new flush set when I tried using that rivet tape that came with the Avery toolkit. Now I get no marks at all. So my VS and the left side of the HS have the marks but the right side HS looks good. Bummer. Nothing that paint prep won't take out. Its a shame I learn all these things about halfway thru any process. Thanks for the tape idea whoever that was. Andy Andy's Rule of Airplane Building::Everything takes at least three times as long as you think it will, even if you apply this rule ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 11, 2004
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
In a message dated 12/11/04 3:27:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Bellwa77(at)AOL.com writes: > Its a shame I learn all these things > about halfway thru any process. Thanks for the tape idea whoever that was. > > Andy > That's why we build another airplane! Dan Hopper RV-7A (Flying) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
Date: Dec 11, 2004
I too have some scuff marks. Mine are caused by the "galling" of the alclad on the rivet set. I have used tape on the skins, no marks. Tape on the set , no marks. However you will have to replace the tape on the set every dozen or so rivets. I have also used some auto rubbing compound on the rivet set remove the galling, it works but you have to polish the set every 20-30 rivets. The bottom line is that when you are ready to paint, you will need to prep the skins by scotchbrighting the rivet lines anyway. Paul (RV-4/RV-7A) ----- Original Message ----- From: Bellwa77(at)AOL.com To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Another riveting question Hi Folks I'm a little late to this thread but I thought I'd add my two cents. I noticed that with the flush set that I was also getting marks on the skin. They weren't smileys, just a scuffing sort of mark. I was thinking that maybe my flush set has some imperfections or something. I couldn't really see anything wrong with it. I was about to order a new flush set when I tried using that rivet tape that came with the Avery toolkit. Now I get no marks at all. So my VS and the left side of the HS have the marks but the right side HS looks good. Bummer. Nothing that paint prep won't take out. Its a shame I learn all these things about halfway thru any process. Thanks for the tape idea whoever that was. Andy Andy's Rule of Airplane Building::Everything takes at least three times as long as you think it will, even if you apply this rule ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
Dan I am building a 7A and I would very much like to see yours, you know the keep building encouragement kind of thing Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com wrote: > >In a message dated 12/11/04 3:27:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >Bellwa77(at)AOL.com writes: > >> Its a shame I learn all these things >> about halfway thru any process. Thanks for the tape idea whoever that was. >> >> Andy >> > >That's why we build another airplane! > >Dan Hopper >RV-7A (Flying) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LARRY RUSH" <K9HXT(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
Date: Dec 13, 2004
When using the flush riveting head try putting masking tape on the tool face. Larry, RV-7A working (3rd RV) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
Last 7A message from Tad Sargent Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com wrote: > >In a message dated 12/11/04 3:27:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >Bellwa77(at)AOL.com writes: > >> Its a shame I learn all these things >> about halfway thru any process. Thanks for the tape idea whoever that was. >> >> Andy >> > >That's why we build another airplane! > >Dan Hopper >RV-7A (Flying) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Morning all, So I glued up my rudder trailing edge on Saturday...I actually used Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time this stuff sets up like the stickiest stuff on the planet so we'll see how that goes. So to set the rivets it says to use a dimple...eh what?...do they mean a female dimple? Are there any tricks you guys can pass along to get the best results....I assume you set with a squeezer? Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Subject: Re: Another riveting question
In a message dated 12/13/04 10:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Sargentclt(at)cs.com writes: > > Dan I am building a 7A and I would very much like to see yours, you know > the keep building encouragement kind of thing > > Come to Robison (pvt) just W of Peru, IN, and see it. Or, if you're not too far away I'll come see you. Where are you located? Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Subject: Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Frank, Here are a few tips --- all my opinion, of course. You should have countersunk the wedge extrusion that goes between the skins, and dimpled both skins. Alternate the direction you insert the rivets from, to avoid any tendency to curl the TE. Keep this straight by marking every other one with a Sharpie. I used a back rivet plate and flush set in the rivet gun. Start at the center and work both ways, although this probably doesn't matter. Just make sure that the shop heads are not above the surface if you are going to back rivet, so they don't interfere with the next rivet and cause a problem. To be honest, mine isn't perfect -- I think because I didn't use any adhesive. The adhesive is very important to keep the edge straight. Hope this helps, Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July) In a message dated 12/13/04 2:15:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes: > So to set the rivets it says to use a dimple...eh what?...do they mean a > female dimple? > > Are there any tricks you guys can pass along to get the best > results....I assume you set with a squeezer? > > Thanks > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
> Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time Hope that's not corrosive to aluminum... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Me too! I know building flashing is often made of aluminium so I would doubt it...Hate to be building a new rudder in a few years....:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting > Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time Hope that's not corrosive to aluminum... )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
As said before, the aluminum wedge should already be coutersunk and the skins already dimpled. Now, I don't know if I would necessarily squeeze them with a squeezer becaues you're working on two angeled surfaces, and on top of that you're filling one of the dimples with the shop head/bucktail of the rivet. I did mine with no adhesive at all, just a nice big back rivet plate I made out of some 1/4" steel about 6"x12" in size. That allowed me to gently rivet every 5th rivet partially back and forth until the whole edge was done. The key is not to completely rivet from one end to the other, that will invite a twist, but rather to slightly rivet the edge back and forth until they are perfect. You don't want to set the rivets completely on the first shot either, take two or three passes to get them completely set and you can/will keep the whole thing straight as an arrow. My rudder ended up nearly perfect (lined up with one of those cheapo laser level thingies) and only took a little while to do. Just my 2 cents as usual. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis (one has an RV7 tail on it so this qualifies for the above response..I think :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting Morning all, So I glued up my rudder trailing edge on Saturday...I actually used Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time this stuff sets up like the stickiest stuff on the planet so we'll see how that goes. So to set the rivets it says to use a dimple...eh what?...do they mean a female dimple? Are there any tricks you guys can pass along to get the best results....I assume you set with a squeezer? Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Smith" <rvator(at)lindonnet.com>
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
13:06:56, Serialize by Router on slcnot1/SCT(Release 6.0.4|June 01, 2004) at 12/13/2004 13:06:57, Serialize complete at 12/13/2004 13:06:57, Itemize by SMTP Server on sctmnot9/SCT(Release 6.0.4HF100 | September 14, 2004) at 12/13/2004 15:06:57, Serialize by Router on sctmnot9/SCT(Release 6.0.4HF100 | September 14, 2004) at 12/13/2004 15:06:57, Serialize complete at 12/13/2004 15:06:57 I actually drilled holes (not all the way through) in my back-rivet plate so I could cleco the rudder to the plate, and also counter-sunk the plate in a big piece of MDF. Then I could drill more holes in the MDF so that the rudder could be held flat against a larger area. Didn't use any adhesive and it seemed to work great! Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting Frank, Here are a few tips --- all my opinion, of course. You should have countersunk the wedge extrusion that goes between the skins, and dimpled both skins. Alternate the direction you insert the rivets from, to avoid any tendency to curl the TE. Keep this straight by marking every other one with a Sharpie. I used a back rivet plate and flush set in the rivet gun. Start at the center and work both ways, although this probably doesn't matter. Just make sure that the shop heads are not above the surface if you are going to back rivet, so they don't interfere with the next rivet and cause a problem. To be honest, mine isn't perfect -- I think because I didn't use any adhesive. The adhesive is very important to keep the edge straight. Hope this helps, Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George(at)maxwell.af.mil>
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Frank - I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish. If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min epoxy on the AEX wedge. I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out will often result in a bowed TE. Neal RV-7 Wings RV-8 Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron(at)aerojet.com>
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant, but I think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main thing is to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure it's still straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step, turned out to be no big deal. Al Herron RV-7A QB -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E Capt AU/PC Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting Frank - I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish. If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min epoxy on the AEX wedge. I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out will often result in a bowed TE. Neal RV-7 Wings RV-8 Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: And another one
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Thanks for the help on the TE rivetting. Another one is the AN470 rivets in the spars. Having squeezed a dozen rivets I could see this was going to be a painful experience. So on the VS spar I drilled the back plate to accept a cupped rivet set, got the back rivet set in the gun and started pounding away. I noticed however that the rivets have a tendancy to bend instead of driving straight. I'm thinking that if I support the spar better I might have better results with the HS spar because I can have two hands on the rivet gun to stop it wandering. I may have had the air pressure up a bit high too. Has anyone had good or bad results with this method?...Its certainly a whole lot easier than using a hand squeezer that's for sure (no smileys either) and a pnuematic looks little overkill for the QB kit. Any thoughts? Frank Lazyness is the Mother of all invention....:) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: And another one
On 12/13 1:00, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > Thanks for the help on the TE rivetting. > > Another one is the AN470 rivets in the spars. Having squeezed a dozen > rivets I could see this was going to be a painful experience. So on the > VS spar I drilled the back plate to accept a cupped rivet set, got the > back rivet set in the gun and started pounding away. > > I noticed however that the rivets have a tendancy to bend instead of > driving straight. I'm thinking that if I support the spar better I might > have better results with the HS spar because I can have two hands on the > rivet gun to stop it wandering. > > I may have had the air pressure up a bit high too. > > Has anyone had good or bad results with this method?...Its certainly a > whole lot easier than using a hand squeezer that's for sure (no smileys > either) and a pnuematic looks little overkill for the QB kit. > > Any thoughts? There are two gotta-haves in my book. (and I would never ever consider building without #2) 1) items to be rivetted should be stabilized very well, even if it means placing in a padded vise, especially when using a cupped set. 2) pneumatic squeezer. Perfect results every time, without question. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bellwa77(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Subject: Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
What type of epoxy would you use? There seems to be a whole bunch of different types out there. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but what is RTV? Is that an Epoxy too? Andy In a message dated 12/13/2004 3:36:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al.Herron(at)aerojet.com writes: Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant, but I think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main thing is to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure it's still straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step, turned out to be no big deal. Al Herron RV-7A QB -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E Capt AU/PC Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting Frank - I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish. If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min epoxy on the AEX wedge. I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out will often result in a bowed TE. Neal RV-7 Wings RV-8 Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
The plans say to use any kind of epoxy with a 30 minute working time....my Supermend epoxy only claimed 15 mins so I went with the building caulking instead. RTV is not an epoxy its gasket sealant that is silicone based...Makes a rubbery seal. Not what your looking for to glue the tail edges together. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bellwa77(at)AOL.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting What type of epoxy would you use? There seems to be a whole bunch of different types out there. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but what is RTV? Is that an Epoxy too? Andy In a message dated 12/13/2004 3:36:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al.Herron(at)aerojet.com writes: Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant, but I think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main thing is to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure it's still straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step, turned out to be no big deal. Al Herron RV-7A QB -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E Capt AU/PC Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting Frank - I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish. If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min epoxy on the AEX wedge. I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out will often result in a bowed TE. Neal RV-7 Wings RV-8 Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron(at)aerojet.com>
Subject: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
Date: Dec 13, 2004
There are no stupid questions. I'll pass along another thing about RTV because it's a safety item. Do not get the stuff anywhere near your fuel system. In contact with avgas it will swell up by a factor of about 10. I had a (supposedly FAA certified) A&P use to seal the fuel tank access panels on my 172. The panel screws pushed little #8-size pellets of the stuff into my fuel tank, where they proceeded to grow to the approximate size and consistency of a big garden slug. I was lucky - another mechanic spotted the problem a couple of weeks later before they clogged my fuel lines. I was only out $400 to get the tanks flushed instead whatever an off-field landing might have cost me. Word to the wise. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bellwa77(at)AOL.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting What type of epoxy would you use? There seems to be a whole bunch of different types out there. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but what is RTV? Is that an Epoxy too? Andy In a message dated 12/13/2004 3:36:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al.Herron(at)aerojet.com writes: Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant, but I think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main thing is to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure it's still straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step, turned out to be no big deal. Al Herron RV-7A QB -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E Capt AU/PC Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting Frank - I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish. If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min epoxy on the AEX wedge. I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out will often result in a bowed TE. Neal RV-7 Wings RV-8 Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: HS Rear Spar Question
Date: Dec 14, 2004
Ok so everything is primed and ready to go together.Following the plans, I am ready for the rear spar. But there is really no indication which direction the machined heads will face (fore or aft) for the rear spar (HS 609/603). If you read section 5 in the manual it looks like the machined head is on the thinner piece of material. However, I am not going off of that. Is there something I am missing?? I checked other builders sites and from what I saw of the pictures (read: SQUINTED) I could have swore that I found it both ways. Any help would be appreciated. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: HS Rear Spar Question
Date: Dec 15, 2004
Scott, There is a convention that the shop head should, for preference, be against the thinner sheet. However Vans, somewhere in my construction manual, address the issue and make the observation that they have no evidence whatever that rivet orientation makes any difference to the strength of the final product. On my plane I put the shop head against the thinner sheet, but only where access is convenient. If access is not excellent the chance of a smiley or bent rivet becomes high and the damage is not worth the risk. I then orient the rivet for best access, regardless of sheet thickness. Stop worrying and keep pounding. Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Scott R. Shook [mailto:sshook(at)cox.net] Subject: RV7-List: HS Rear Spar Question Ok so everything is primed and ready to go together.Following the plans, I am ready for the rear spar. But there is really no indication which direction the machined heads will face (fore or aft) for the rear spar (HS 609/603). If you read section 5 in the manual it looks like the machined head is on the thinner piece of material. However, I am not going off of that. Is there something I am missing?? I checked other builders sites and from what I saw of the pictures (read: SQUINTED) I could have swore that I found it both ways. Any help would be appreciated. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: HS Rear Spar Question
Date: Dec 14, 2004
> There is a convention that the shop head should, for preference, be against > the thinner sheet. Other way around (probably what you meant)...manufactured head against the thinner stock, shop head formed against the thicker stock. In my opinion, this only matters when you're using .020" or thinner, because that's when you can really start to see scalloping/buckling around the shop heads on the thinner material. In my experience the effect is exaggerated when you attach thin (i.e. .020") stock to thicker stock with 1/8" or larger diameter fasteners. > Stop worrying and keep pounding. Exactly. Just keep the convention in mind, because sometimes it does have a cosmetic effect. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: HS Rear Spar Question
Date: Dec 15, 2004
Dan, You are correct, I meant the manufactured head should, by convention, be against the thinner sheet. Its easy to reverse things when living down under, its hell hanging onto the earth upside down you know. Regards, David Francis, enjoying a hot summer, Canberra, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: HS Rear Spar Question > There is a convention that the shop head should, for preference, be against > the thinner sheet. Other way around (probably what you meant)...manufactured head against the thinner stock, shop head formed against the thicker stock. In my opinion, this only matters when you're using .020" or thinner, because that's when you can really start to see scalloping/buckling around the shop heads on the thinner material. In my experience the effect is exaggerated when you attach thin (i.e. .020") stock to thicker stock with 1/8" or larger diameter fasteners. > Stop worrying and keep pounding. Exactly. Just keep the convention in mind, because sometimes it does have a cosmetic effect. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com _ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: HS Rear Spar Question
Date: Dec 15, 2004
You already have some good replies and I agree that the shop head should go on the thicker mat'l side unless there are/is a reason to do it the other way. One other reason is because you want the DAR and others to be able to see your shop heads after the part is closed up. They can easily see the quality of your finished rivet. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts; in flying a virgin plane never flown before. - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: HS Rear Spar Question > > Ok so everything is primed and ready to go together.Following the plans, I > am ready for the rear spar. > > But there is really no indication which direction the machined heads will > face (fore or aft) for the rear spar (HS 609/603). If you read section 5 in > the manual it looks like the machined head is on the thinner piece of > material. However, I am not going off of that. Is there something I am > missing?? > > I checked other builders sites and from what I saw of the pictures (read: > SQUINTED) I could have swore that I found it both ways. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Scott > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: HS Rear Spar Question
Date: Dec 15, 2004
> There is a convention that the shop head should, for preference, be against > the thinner sheet. > > However Vans, somewhere in my construction manual, address the issue and > make the observation that they have no evidence whatever that rivet > orientation makes any difference to the strength of the final product. > > On my plane I put the shop head against the thinner sheet, but only where > access is convenient. If access is not excellent the chance of a smiley or > bent rivet becomes high and the damage is not worth the risk. I then orient > the rivet for best access, regardless of sheet thickness. > ((((((((()))))))))) I realize this reply came from down under and perhaps its in the semantics........However, with all due respect to our friends who mostly upside down with us when standing with feet on firm ground in Australia.......... I believe the shop head ( our shop ) should be on the thicker, not thinner material side. The machined head ( manufacturer ) should be on the thinner side. Less likely to cause stress cracks that way which can weaken our structures just a bit. See my other post on this for another reason you might want your shop heads to be on the "seen" side. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts; in flying a virgin plane never flown before. - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2004
Subject: [ Jim Jewell ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim Jewell Subject: RV6-A lower cowl engine air intake seal http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jjewell@telus.net.12.18.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Fuel cap
Date: Dec 19, 2004
Fellow RV'ers, Is it Ok to use DC-4 compound on the fuel cap "O" ring? If not, what do some of you use? Thanks in advance, John Brunke N215KC, RV-6 RV-7 tail in the basement. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel cap
Date: Dec 19, 2004
EZ-Turn (a.k.a. Fuelube) Spruce p/n 09-00306 )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RV7-List: Fuel cap > > Fellow RV'ers, > > Is it Ok to use DC-4 compound on the fuel cap "O" ring? > > If not, what do some of you use? > > Thanks in advance, > John Brunke N215KC, RV-6 > > RV-7 tail in the basement. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)AOL.com
Date: Dec 27, 2004
Subject: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue
rv-list(at)matronics.com, aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the engine) and the radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I could barely hear him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to come in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once again. So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again and once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of static (only when receiving transmissions). The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and it did not seem to make a difference. I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue. Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first flight. Thanks in advance! -Mike Kraus N223RV RV-4 Flying N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue
Date: Dec 27, 2004
Mike Having had a very similar experience in a different situation; I found it to be a loose wire causing what sounds like static. Essentially what was happening at certain vibrations/frequencies I would hear the same static and sometimes there was even complete loss - it actually was a loose wire partially disconnecting/connecting very quickly. I would suggest tracing all the way from the headset jacks to the radio before having someone pull the radio and look at it. I think you may find the solution to be a simple one if it is only happening at certain engine speeds. Just my 2 cents... Scott HS Complete!!! VS being skinned!!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N223RV(at)AOL.com rv-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the engine) and the radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I could barely hear him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to come in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once again. So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again and once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of static (only when receiving transmissions). The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and it did not seem to make a difference. I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue. Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first flight. Thanks in advance! -Mike Kraus N223RV RV-4 Flying N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2004
From: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue
We have been having a very similar problem with our radios.. Sounds like we're getting out fine, 4x5 or so, but recieving, is horrible.. Plane's been in the shop for 2 weeks.. Going out tomorrow to fly it and see if we've gotten anywwhere.. ----- Original Message ----- From: <N223RV(at)AOL.com> ; ; Subject: RV7-List: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue > > I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the > second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the engine) and the > radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with > static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I could barely hear > him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to come > in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once again. > So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again and > once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of > static (only when receiving transmissions). > > The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a > Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed > electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and it did not > seem to make a difference. > > I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue. > > Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first > flight. Thanks in advance! > > -Mike Kraus > N223RV RV-4 Flying > N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ed clegg" <edwclg(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: landing lites
Date: Dec 28, 2004
I have been thinking of enclosing the landing lights in the wing tip as quite a few of you have. My questions are: 1. with a 75watt halogen is the light adequate? 2. It seems that at the very best the lights will parallel the chord vs getting the light(s) to point towards the centerline. Dose this leave a dark spot along the center line? Thanks Ed Clegg RV 8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: EAA Tech Counselor
Date: Dec 28, 2004
So I am done with the HS and working on the VS and wanted to know if there are any EAA tech Counselors in the Phoenix (East Valley) area with some time on their hands to come out and have a look at my progress? Also, is this a good time or should I wait until the control surfaces are done? Thoughts? Scott & Jenni ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2004
From: Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: EAA Tech Counselor
Assuming you're an EAA member, there's a database in the members only section of the EAA Web site for you to find tech counselors in your area. http://members.eaa.org/home/lookup/ I always have the tech counselor stop by whenever I've got a pile of work for them to look at. They'll stop by as often as you want. I would, however, go ahead and start on the control surface. I like to leave one major part exposed so they can see the "innards". Bob Collins St. Paul Waiting for fuselage --- "Scott R. Shook" wrote: > > > So I am done with the HS and working on the VS and > wanted to know if there > are any EAA tech Counselors in the Phoenix (East > Valley) area with some time > on their hands to come out and have a look at my > progress? > > Also, is this a good time or should I wait until the > control surfaces are > done? > > Thoughts? > > Scott & Jenni > __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2004
Subject: [ Kelly Patterson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Kelly Patterson Subject: Tailcone baggage compartment http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kbob@cox.net.12.31.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vern W" <vernw(at)pdq.net>
Subject: Re: [ Kelly Patterson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
Date: Dec 31, 2004
I certainly understand why some might like to see extra room for carrying "stuff" in our RV's, but am I the only one who has great misgivings about making room for more baggage considerably further AFT behind the CG? As a benchmark reference, note that Van's gives us the option to drill out lightening holes in the vertical stab in order to not just save weight, but more importantly, to get some weight off the tail. Those holes are only good for a few ounces at best, and they can be important ounces, but now there seems to be a number of people willing to put more POUNDS way behind the CG. I'm thinking that it's only a matter of time before we hear of the first accident caused by too much weight aft of the CG. Sure, we're all smart enough to carefully figure our load and it's affect on the CG for a particular flight, but what if a load unexpectedly shifted rearward? Even a few inches could make a big difference if it happened halfway back toward the tail. An inflight "emergency" like that might go undetected for a while, but could bite hard on final when the tanks have burned off lot's of weight formerly in front of the CG and a pilot slows down for landing. Just my .02 without trying to offend anyone. Vern RV7-A QB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV7-List: [ Kelly Patterson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! > > > A new Email List Photo Share is available: > > Poster: Kelly Patterson > > > Subject: Tailcone baggage compartment > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kbob@cox.net.12.31.2004/index.html > > > o Main Photo Share Index > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > o Submitting a Photo Share > > If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the > following information along with your email message and files: > > 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: > 2) Your Full Name: > 3) Your Email Address: > 4) One line Subject description: > 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: > 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: > > Email the information above and your files and photos to: > > pictures(at)matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2005
From: William Near <bnjn(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Love is not love Which.
ALERT! This e-mail, in its original form, contained one or more attached files that were infected with a virus, worm, or other type of security threat. This e-mail was sent from a Road Runner IP address. As part of our continuing initiative to stop the spread of malicious viruses, Road Runner scans all outbound e-mail attachments. If a virus, worm, or other security threat is found, Road Runner cleans or deletes the infected attachments as necessary, but continues to send the original message content to the recipient. Further information on this initiative can be found at http://help.rr.com/faqs/e_mgsp.html. Please be advised that Road Runner does not contact the original sender of the e-mail as part of the scanning process. Road Runner recommends that if the sender is known to you, you contact them directly and advise them of their issue. If you do not know the sender, we advise you to forward this message in its entirety (including full headers) to the Road Runner Abuse Department, at abuse(at)rr.com. Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks Within his bending sickle's compass come: Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, But bears it out even to the edge of doom. If this be error and upon me proved, I never writ, nor no man ever loved. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clark, Thomas M UTPWR" <Tom.Clark(at)UTCFuelCells.com>
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com, Mid-AtlRVwing(at)yahoogroups.com, rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com, BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV-8 Fastback
Date: Jan 06, 2005
Groups, I have had a bunch of questions about my modified RV-8 Fastback which was completed mid. last year. I now have a web site that should answer many of the questions about this modification. Try the link below. Thanks, Tom RV8 Fastback, N525TC, 75 hours http://members.cox.net/rv8fastback Tom Clark 860-727-2287 Office 860-604-5826 Cell 860-998-9811 Fax e-mail: tom.clark(at)utcfuelcells.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Jan 07, 2005
Subject: [PLEASE READ NOW] - Addressing Upgrade At Matronics TONIGHT!
Dear Listers, Service Provider to upgrade to a larger IP subnet. I will be re-addressing all of the machines on the network including the Matronics Web Server and Matronics Email Server at that time. Name Service will be updated at that time as well and most things should work again pretty quick. There may be some bounced email for a few hours or even a day or so as the new name-to-ip-address resolutions propagate into the depths of the Internet. If you have problems posting a message to one of the Lists or get a bounced message back, please wait a couple of hours and try sending it again. Generally, access to the web site should work within 1-hour of Hopefully the transition will go smoothly and you'll hardly even notice! :-) Thanks for your patience! Matt Dralle List Administrator -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LARRY RUSH" <K9HXT(at)msn.com>
Subject: Switches
Date: Jan 08, 2005
Does anyone know where to get rocker switches that have engraved I.D.'s on the switches themselves??? I have seen them but do not recall who has them.... Thanks, Larry, RV-7A working ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)AOL.com
Date: Jan 08, 2005
Subject: Re: Switches
LARRY, I JUST GOT OURS HERE. DOUG PRESTON RV-7A WIRING _www.aerocraftparts.com/Categories.aspx?Category=38940ec0-b260-4e9f-a23c-b80ff 8e89c67_ (http://www.aerocraftparts.com/Categories.aspx?Category=38940ec0-b260-4e9f-a23c-b80ff8e89c67) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: E: RV7-List:Newbie advice
Date: Jan 12, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
I have just hung my tail kit on the fuse (less than 100 hours thanks to pre punched empanage kits) and therefore feel I am a complete expert on all aspects of RV building...NOT! But, One area all the builders websites complain about is having to set the blind rivets by hand. If you trot down to Harbor frieght you can by a pneumatic pop riveter for like 35 bucks. I built a zenair Zodiac which is completely assembled by blind rivets so of course I bought one. They work very very well. I would suggest for the few hundred you might have to set on the RV they may well be worth the investment. Imagine setting blind rivets with one finger....:) Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
, , ,
Subject: Flop tube problems
Date: Jan 13, 2005
For those interested I designed a simple anti-rotation bracket for my flop tube installation. It is easy to make and install while constructing the tank. I believe it can be easily retrofitted to an existing tank with minimal effort, but you will have to remove the flop tube from the 90 bulkhead elbow. Photos are posted on my website ExperimenalAero.com http://www.experimentalaero.com/flop_tube_anti_rotation.htm Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: rwtrwtau To: RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:56 AM Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Flop tube problems For those that are interested, I was told by Vans that flop tubes should be fitted with anti-rotation brackets as well. This makes sense to me but is not depicted on the drawings or described in the instructions. It will be fun installing them now... Another kind person pointed me to the Standard Aircraft Handbook, where the torque figures are in fact listed. Richard --- In RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com, "rwtrwtau" wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > I'm wondering if people have been having issues getting the flop > tubes installed in their tanks? My issues seems to be stopping the > fitting from turning when I connect the AN-929-6D end cap. > > First I tried sealing the fitting by smearing the fitting, nut and > hole with Proseal. I quickly discovered that that was a bad idea as > the Proseal turns into rubbery like stuff when it sets not adhesive. > > I have since tried with the fittings dry and Proseal removed. This > has not helped either. > > Looking at the plans (16A) I have installed the T-410 plate inside > the rib and the T-405 reinforcing angle. The T-410 plate is not > specifically called out but I assume it should be there even in flop > tube installations. > > I do not see a call-out for a bulkhead washer on the plans. Indeed > if I install on, there will not be any thread for the nut to clamp > down on, let alone 1 turn extra. > > I was thinking of making some anti-rotation brackets to fit in the > tank but that will be a pain. I have also made some very thin > washers from .016" Alclad and this seems to help. > > Does anyone know what the torque requirements for these fittings > is? I have been working on the basis of finger tight + 1/2 turn. > > Thanks > Richard Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing www.vansaircraft.net a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RV7and7A-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Space in RV 7 wing roots
Date: Jan 13, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hi guys, I'm planning on doing something a little different with the fuel system on the 7A to improve the margin against vapour lock for use with Autofuel, which boils a whole lot easier than 100LL does if the pump sucks on the fuel. The first part of the mods require installing an electric fuel pump (and hopefully pressure regulator) in each wing root, i.e as close to the fuel tank as possible.. Does anyone know the approximate width of the space between the tank and the fuse side, has anyone seen a pump installed in that location? Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A
Date: Jan 14, 2005
Frank, I saw your post on the rv7-list but didn't reply because I didn't have exact dimensions handy...and in fact, it will vary from aircraft to aircraft based on sweep. In my particular case, the distance between the fuel tank and side skin starts out around 4" at the leading edge and tapers down to about 3" at the spar. I've definitely seen people mount boost pumps in the wing root, claiming that it's much cooler for them there (and I buy that). Do a Matronics RV list search (http://www.matronics.com/searching/) for "pump & wing root" and you'll get a buttload of info on the topic of fuel pump installation. I don't recall where exactly I saw photos on the web of wing root pump setups, but I know I've seen 'em out there before. You'll have to work some tubing magic, but that's not a big deal. If it's any consolation, the standard AFP high pressure pump install kit that Van's sells worked well. My pump/filter is located right in front of the selector valve. It doesn't get in the way of our legs and stuff, but it does introduce a lot of fuel connections into the cabin area. FWIW, I've had various tiny oil leaks and brake fitting leaks in the past, but the fuel system has been dry as a bone. In a way, I'd almost rather have the leak in the cabin than outside. Outside I'd never know about it until I was on the ground. Inside, I assume I'd know about it right away. Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A > > Hi guys,...Posted this to the Mtronics RV 7 group but no reply...Can > anyone help? > > I'm planning on doing something a little different with the fuel system > on the 7A to improve the margin against vapour lock for use with > Autofuel, which boils a whole lot easier than 100LL does if the pump > sucks on the fuel. > > The first part of the mods require installing an electric fuel pump (and > hopefully pressure regulator) in each wing root, i.e as close to the > fuel tank as possible.. > > Does anyone know the approximate width of the space between the tank and > the fuse side, has anyone seen a pump installed in that location? > > > Thanks > > Frank > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Give the gift of life to a sick child. > Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/jrDrlB/TM > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorCal-rvlist/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > NorCal-rvlist-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A
Date: Jan 14, 2005
> In my particular case, the distance between the fuel tank and side skin > starts out around 4" at the leading edge and tapers down to about 3" at the > spar. And in case it sounds like I've got a "swept wing" RV-7, I don't... ;-) It's due to the curving contour of the fuselage. )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2005
From: Slgmjg1(at)cs.com
Subject: Space in RV 7 wing roots
Hey Frank, The distance is about 4". Just to let you know (and I'm sure someone will have an opinion about this but) I am running auto fuel in my 7A with the standard boost pump from vans in the normal location (inside of firewall) and I have 60 hours on the plain now and have had no trouble with vapor lock. I run 93 octain fuel from BP in a 0-360A1A. Not a bad idea to put it in the wing root for if anything piece of mind. Have fun. "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > > >Hi guys, > >I'm planning on doing something a little different with the fuel system >on the 7A to improve the margin against vapour lock for use with >Autofuel, which boils a whole lot easier than 100LL does if the pump >sucks on the fuel. > >The first part of the mods require installing an electric fuel pump (and >hopefully pressure regulator) in each wing root, i.e as close to the >fuel tank as possible.. > >Does anyone know the approximate width of the space between the tank and >the fuse side, has anyone seen a pump installed in that location? > > >Thanks > >Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A
Date: Jan 17, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Thanks Dan...Loved the video! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: RV7-List: Re: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A > In my particular case, the distance between the fuel tank and side > skin starts out around 4" at the leading edge and tapers down to about > 3" at the > spar. And in case it sounds like I've got a "swept wing" RV-7, I don't... ;-) It's due to the curving contour of the fuselage. )_( Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A
Date: Jan 17, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Actually that is a good point...I had a cracked fitting inside my cabin and hardly any fuel leaked but it stunk to high heaven...:) I was just terrified it might burst into flames before I got it down.... Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: RV7-List: Re: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A Frank, I saw your post on the rv7-list but didn't reply because I didn't have exact dimensions handy...and in fact, it will vary from aircraft to aircraft based on sweep. In my particular case, the distance between the fuel tank and side skin starts out around 4" at the leading edge and tapers down to about 3" at the spar. I've definitely seen people mount boost pumps in the wing root, claiming that it's much cooler for them there (and I buy that). Do a Matronics RV list search (http://www.matronics.com/searching/) for "pump & wing root" and you'll get a buttload of info on the topic of fuel pump installation. I don't recall where exactly I saw photos on the web of wing root pump setups, but I know I've seen 'em out there before. You'll have to work some tubing magic, but that's not a big deal. If it's any consolation, the standard AFP high pressure pump install kit that Van's sells worked well. My pump/filter is located right in front of the selector valve. It doesn't get in the way of our legs and stuff, but it does introduce a lot of fuel connections into the cabin area. FWIW, I've had various tiny oil leaks and brake fitting leaks in the past, but the fuel system has been dry as a bone. In a way, I'd almost rather have the leak in the cabin than outside. Outside I'd never know about it until I was on the ground. Inside, I assume I'd know about it right away. Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: [NorCal-rvlist] Wing root space RV7A > > Hi guys,...Posted this to the Mtronics RV 7 group but no reply...Can > anyone help? > > I'm planning on doing something a little different with the fuel system > on the 7A to improve the margin against vapour lock for use with > Autofuel, which boils a whole lot easier than 100LL does if the pump > sucks on the fuel. > > The first part of the mods require installing an electric fuel pump (and > hopefully pressure regulator) in each wing root, i.e as close to the > fuel tank as possible.. > > Does anyone know the approximate width of the space between the tank and > the fuse side, has anyone seen a pump installed in that location? > > > Thanks > > Frank > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Give the gift of life to a sick child. > Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/jrDrlB/TM > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorCal-rvlist/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > NorCal-rvlist-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Space in RV 7 wing roots
Date: Jan 17, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Yes its probably OK with the 3/8ths fuel line but hydralically the best place is "out there" and I do like my current A/C setup which does the same thing and I switch taks by simply switching pumps...Works real good and you can remove the engine pump which...yeah ok it does'nt require electricity but is very prone to vapour lock too. Besides each of the Lightspeeds need elctric too...:) So for me if it will fit its worth forcing...:) Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Slgmjg1(at)cs.com Subject: RE: RV7-List: Space in RV 7 wing roots Hey Frank, The distance is about 4". Just to let you know (and I'm sure someone will have an opinion about this but) I am running auto fuel in my 7A with the standard boost pump from vans in the normal location (inside of firewall) and I have 60 hours on the plain now and have had no trouble with vapor lock. I run 93 octain fuel from BP in a 0-360A1A. Not a bad idea to put it in the wing root for if anything piece of mind. Have fun. "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: >--> > > >Hi guys, > >I'm planning on doing something a little different with the fuel system >on the 7A to improve the margin against vapour lock for use with >Autofuel, which boils a whole lot easier than 100LL does if the pump >sucks on the fuel. > >The first part of the mods require installing an electric fuel pump >(and hopefully pressure regulator) in each wing root, i.e as close to >the fuel tank as possible.. > >Does anyone know the approximate width of the space between the tank >and the fuse side, has anyone seen a pump installed in that location? > > >Thanks > >Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat Backs in a 7A
Date: Jan 19, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hi all, I'm a little confused over the seat back hinge placement. The pans say to have an overall hinge length of 15.5 inches where the seat back is 16 inches. Naturally I cut 15.5 inches and centered it on the seat back. Didn't look quite right so I looked harder and it appears the really there should be 16" of hinge, with the closed end on the inboard side. The inboard edge of the seat back should be right on the edge of the tunnel cover flange. Does that sound right to you guys? It would be better if Van's gave a dimension relating the seat back positon to the airframe. Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com
Date: Jan 19, 2005
Subject: Re: Seat Backs in a 7A
Frank, There is a lot of detail on DWG 30. Its all there. Dan Hopper Walton IN RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July until sometime in Dec. Wx bad here in Indiana lately.) In a message dated 1/19/05 11:54:07 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes: Hi all, I'm a little confused over the seat back hinge placement. The pans say to have an overall hinge length of 15.5 inches where the seat back is 16 inches. Naturally I cut 15.5 inches and centered it on the seat back. Didn't look quite right so I looked harder and it appears the really there should be 16" of hinge, with the closed end on the inboard side. The inboard edge of the seat back should be right on the edge of the tunnel cover flange. Does that sound right to you guys? It would be better if Van's gave a dimension relating the seat back positon to the airframe. Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sjevans" <sjevans(at)cox.net>
Subject: Seat Backs in a 7A
Date: Jan 19, 2005
Frank, I'm working on the seat backs too. The drawing can be a bit confusing: On drawing 30, bottom-center, note "F-637 Seat Back Assembly". To the left, in area A-7.5, note the side view at bottom: "F-637E Make from AN257-P3 Hinge 16" long". Then, note the front view in area A-6, shows a dimension of 15 1/2" Total Hinge Length. You can see that the dimension is actually from the end of the hinge eye on one end to the end of the hinge eye on the other end. Bad wording in my opinion. Sam Abilene, TX 7A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RV7-List: Seat Backs in a 7A Hi all, I'm a little confused over the seat back hinge placement. The pans say to have an overall hinge length of 15.5 inches where the seat back is 16 inches. Naturally I cut 15.5 inches and centered it on the seat back. Didn't look quite right so I looked harder and it appears the really there should be 16" of hinge, with the closed end on the inboard side. The inboard edge of the seat back should be right on the edge of the tunnel cover flange. Does that sound right to you guys? It would be better if Van's gave a dimension relating the seat back positon to the airframe. Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat Backs in a 7A
Date: Jan 19, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Yes I understand it now Sam thanks...I just saw a picture from a builders website...It is as you say...closed end flush with one end (inside) and that closed end "overhangs" the hinge on the floor to the inboard side. Phew...:) Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sjevans Subject: RE: RV7-List: Seat Backs in a 7A Frank, I'm working on the seat backs too. The drawing can be a bit confusing: On drawing 30, bottom-center, note "F-637 Seat Back Assembly". To the left, in area A-7.5, note the side view at bottom: "F-637E Make from AN257-P3 Hinge 16" long". Then, note the front view in area A-6, shows a dimension of 15 1/2" Total Hinge Length. You can see that the dimension is actually from the end of the hinge eye on one end to the end of the hinge eye on the other end. Bad wording in my opinion. Sam Abilene, TX 7A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RV7-List: Seat Backs in a 7A Hi all, I'm a little confused over the seat back hinge placement. The pans say to have an overall hinge length of 15.5 inches where the seat back is 16 inches. Naturally I cut 15.5 inches and centered it on the seat back. Didn't look quite right so I looked harder and it appears the really there should be 16" of hinge, with the closed end on the inboard side. The inboard edge of the seat back should be right on the edge of the tunnel cover flange. Does that sound right to you guys? It would be better if Van's gave a dimension relating the seat back positon to the airframe. Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel Storer" <dstorer(at)okwifi.com>
Subject: Horizontal Stab Rear Spar
Date: Jan 23, 2005
Well, I just got my Empennage Kit and I'm hard at it drilling out the Horizontal Stab's. Question, on drawing 3 at the AFT Exploded ISO View (3B) there is a note to "Trim horz. Stab rear spar to allow for elevator control horns to pivot...(see DWG 27A)". I looked at DWG 27A and can see the bearing and horns but no callout for a trim dimension. Is this trimmed during assembly for clearance? Thanks, Dan Storer RV7A newbie Oklahoma City ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken & Terri Howell" <tandk_howell(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Horizontal Stab Rear Spar
Date: Jan 23, 2005
Dan, I'm also an RV-7 newbie, but I believe the dimension you are looking for is on DWG 3, where it is shown as "~1" which I take to mean approximately one inch. That's one inch off each side. It would be easiest to do before you rivet the rear spar together, don't wait 'till afterward like I did. Ken Howell -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Storer Subject: RV7-List: Horizontal Stab Rear Spar Well, I just got my Empennage Kit and I'm hard at it drilling out the Horizontal Stab's. Question, on drawing 3 at the AFT Exploded ISO View (3B) there is a note to "Trim horz. Stab rear spar to allow for elevator control horns to pivot...(see DWG 27A)". I looked at DWG 27A and can see the bearing and horns but no callout for a trim dimension. Is this trimmed during assembly for clearance? Thanks, Dan Storer RV7A newbie Oklahoma City ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Horizontal Stab Rear Spar
Date: Jan 24, 2005
I do not have the plans with me but if I recall if you read the elevator section it talks about potentially cutting the rear spar flange to allow full travel of the elevator/horns, it make the point about NOT removing any spar material just the flange. Dave RV-7A (just finished the empennage) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken & Terri Howell Subject: RE: RV7-List: Horizontal Stab Rear Spar --> Dan, I'm also an RV-7 newbie, but I believe the dimension you are looking for is on DWG 3, where it is shown as "~1" which I take to mean approximately one inch. That's one inch off each side. It would be easiest to do before you rivet the rear spar together, don't wait 'till afterward like I did. Ken Howell -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Storer Subject: RV7-List: Horizontal Stab Rear Spar Well, I just got my Empennage Kit and I'm hard at it drilling out the Horizontal Stab's. Question, on drawing 3 at the AFT Exploded ISO View (3B) there is a note to "Trim horz. Stab rear spar to allow for elevator control horns to pivot...(see DWG 27A)". I looked at DWG 27A and can see the bearing and horns but no callout for a trim dimension. Is this trimmed during assembly for clearance? Thanks, Dan Storer RV7A newbie Oklahoma City advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 27, 2005
Most of you folks are good at problem solving. I think I know the answer but here's the situation. Flew my RV-6 with an O-320 last week. Air temperature was 6 degrees F. Oil temp never made it above 150 degrees. As I leveled off and the fixed pitch prop rpm came up to normal cruise, the oil pressure came up to just below or at red line and fluctuating about 2 to 3 psi. I reduced RPM to 1700 and slowly came back in to land and the pressure stayed around 85 psi (red line is 90). In the pattern when my airspeed was back below 100 mph the oil pressure was in its normal range around 80psi. Ok, it was a really cold day. So I'm thinking that the oil cooler was getting too much air flow. I was able to block 1/2 of the air flow and flew a couple of days later when it was in the high 30's. Flight went great. Went flying today and the air temp was 23 degrees. Even with half the airflow to the cooler blocked the pressure fluctuation up near red line occurred again. This aircraft has Van's engine gauges and I was also venturing that the transducer might be bad, but during these high oil pressure indications the fuel pressure would also rise. They would rise at the same points. I'm concerned because redline for fuel pressure is 8 psi and the indication at one point was 12 psi. So, has anyone run into too much cooling for oil and if so did it also affect your fuel pressure? Also, I am concerned about the fuel pressure excursion above red line. What specifically do you think I should check? I took the cowl off after today's flight and did not notice any leaks. The engine was about 45 degrees F when I started it. It is kept in a heated hanger so the oil was not at ambient temperature when I started it. I would appreciate your comments. John Brunke St. Charles, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 27, 2005
First off, I doubt the vernitherm opened to let your oil cooler even be in the circuit. Secondly, it's cold. Fuel pressure and oil pressure will be higher with thicker substances to push. Jim Nolan 1727 Briarwood Dr. Warsaw, In 46580 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RV7-List: high oil and fuel pressure > > Most of you folks are good at problem solving. I think I know the answer but here's the situation. > > Flew my RV-6 with an O-320 last week. Air temperature was 6 degrees F. Oil temp never made it above 150 degrees. As I leveled off and the > fixed pitch prop rpm came up to normal cruise, the oil pressure came up to just below or at red line and fluctuating about 2 to 3 psi. I reduced RPM to > 1700 and slowly came back in to land and the pressure stayed around 85 psi (red line is 90). In the pattern when my airspeed was back below > 100 mph the oil pressure was in its normal range around 80psi. > > Ok, it was a really cold day. So I'm thinking that the oil cooler was getting too much air flow. I was able to block 1/2 of the air flow and flew a couple > of days later when it was in the high 30's. Flight went great. > > Went flying today and the air temp was 23 degrees. Even with half the airflow to the cooler blocked the pressure fluctuation up near red line occurred again. > > This aircraft has Van's engine gauges and I was also venturing that the transducer might be bad, but during these high oil pressure indications the fuel pressure > would also rise. They would rise at the same points. I'm concerned because redline for fuel pressure is 8 psi and the indication at one point was 12 psi. > > So, has anyone run into too much cooling for oil and if so did it also affect your fuel pressure? > > Also, I am concerned about the fuel pressure excursion above red line. What specifically do you think I should check? I took the cowl off after today's flight > and did not notice any leaks. > > The engine was about 45 degrees F when I started it. It is kept in a heated hanger so the oil was not at ambient temperature when I started it. > > I would appreciate your comments. > > John Brunke > St. Charles, IL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: high oil and fuel pressure
Make sure that the grounds to the gages are good, if they are not sometimes you can get faulty readings. John Brunke wrote: > >Most of you folks are good at problem solving. I think I know the answer but here's the situation. > >Flew my RV-6 with an O-320 last week. Air temperature was 6 degrees F. Oil temp never made it above 150 degrees. As I leveled off and the >fixed pitch prop rpm came up to normal cruise, the oil pressure came up to just below or at red line and fluctuating about 2 to 3 psi. I reduced RPM to >1700 and slowly came back in to land and the pressure stayed around 85 psi (red line is 90). In the pattern when my airspeed was back below >100 mph the oil pressure was in its normal range around 80psi. > >Ok, it was a really cold day. So I'm thinking that the oil cooler was getting too much air flow. I was able to block 1/2 of the air flow and flew a couple >of days later when it was in the high 30's. Flight went great. > >Went flying today and the air temp was 23 degrees. Even with half the airflow to the cooler blocked the pressure fluctuation up near red line occurred again. > >This aircraft has Van's engine gauges and I was also venturing that the transducer might be bad, but during these high oil pressure indications the fuel pressure >would also rise. They would rise at the same points. I'm concerned because redline for fuel pressure is 8 psi and the indication at one point was 12 psi. > >So, has anyone run into too much cooling for oil and if so did it also affect your fuel pressure? > >Also, I am concerned about the fuel pressure excursion above red line. What specifically do you think I should check? I took the cowl off after today's flight >and did not notice any leaks. > >The engine was about 45 degrees F when I started it. It is kept in a heated hanger so the oil was not at ambient temperature when I started it. > >I would appreciate your comments. > >John Brunke >St. Charles, IL > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tim greene" <tgreene5(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 27, 2005
What type/weight oil? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RV7-List: high oil and fuel pressure > > Most of you folks are good at problem solving. I think I know the answer but here's the situation. > > Flew my RV-6 with an O-320 last week. Air temperature was 6 degrees F. Oil temp never made it above 150 degrees. As I leveled off and the > fixed pitch prop rpm came up to normal cruise, the oil pressure came up to just below or at red line and fluctuating about 2 to 3 psi. I reduced RPM to > 1700 and slowly came back in to land and the pressure stayed around 85 psi (red line is 90). In the pattern when my airspeed was back below > 100 mph the oil pressure was in its normal range around 80psi. > > Ok, it was a really cold day. So I'm thinking that the oil cooler was getting too much air flow. I was able to block 1/2 of the air flow and flew a couple > of days later when it was in the high 30's. Flight went great. > > Went flying today and the air temp was 23 degrees. Even with half the airflow to the cooler blocked the pressure fluctuation up near red line occurred again. > > This aircraft has Van's engine gauges and I was also venturing that the transducer might be bad, but during these high oil pressure indications the fuel pressure > would also rise. They would rise at the same points. I'm concerned because redline for fuel pressure is 8 psi and the indication at one point was 12 psi. > > So, has anyone run into too much cooling for oil and if so did it also affect your fuel pressure? > > Also, I am concerned about the fuel pressure excursion above red line. What specifically do you think I should check? I took the cowl off after today's flight > and did not notice any leaks. > > The engine was about 45 degrees F when I started it. It is kept in a heated hanger so the oil was not at ambient temperature when I started it. > > I would appreciate your comments. > > John Brunke > St. Charles, IL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron(at)aerojet.com>
Subject: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 27, 2005
Not a likely culprit since your temp/pressure readings seem to be related, but I've had a false low temp reading in the past due to a badly placed sensor (it was in the front of the oil pan in direct air blast). Oil temp never showed above 100 deg even though the engine was operating normally. Don't think it's a problem in your case but just something to check. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Brunke Subject: RV7-List: high oil and fuel pressure Most of you folks are good at problem solving. I think I know the answer but here's the situation. Flew my RV-6 with an O-320 last week. Air temperature was 6 degrees F. Oil temp never made it above 150 degrees. As I leveled off and the fixed pitch prop rpm came up to normal cruise, the oil pressure came up to just below or at red line and fluctuating about 2 to 3 psi. I reduced RPM to 1700 and slowly came back in to land and the pressure stayed around 85 psi (red line is 90). In the pattern when my airspeed was back below 100 mph the oil pressure was in its normal range around 80psi. Ok, it was a really cold day. So I'm thinking that the oil cooler was getting too much air flow. I was able to block 1/2 of the air flow and flew a couple of days later when it was in the high 30's. Flight went great. Went flying today and the air temp was 23 degrees. Even with half the airflow to the cooler blocked the pressure fluctuation up near red line occurred again. This aircraft has Van's engine gauges and I was also venturing that the transducer might be bad, but during these high oil pressure indications the fuel pressure would also rise. They would rise at the same points. I'm concerned because redline for fuel pressure is 8 psi and the indication at one point was 12 psi. So, has anyone run into too much cooling for oil and if so did it also affect your fuel pressure? Also, I am concerned about the fuel pressure excursion above red line. What specifically do you think I should check? I took the cowl off after today's flight and did not notice any leaks. The engine was about 45 degrees F when I started it. It is kept in a heated hanger so the oil was not at ambient temperature when I started it. I would appreciate your comments. John Brunke St. Charles, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 27, 2005
Comments below .... James {SNIP} | | This aircraft has Van's engine gauges and I was also venturing that the | transducer might be bad, but during these high oil pressure indications | the fuel pressure | would also rise. They would rise at the same points. I'm concerned | because redline for fuel pressure is 8 psi and the indication at one | point was 12 psi. | | Hmmm .... I would check the power, ground and sense wires to the gauges. During this time was the electrical system otherwise doing fine? Just a thought. James ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: High oil and fuel pressures
Date: Jan 27, 2005
Tim, I use AeroShell 15/50 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 27, 2005
> James > > > {SNIP} > > | > | This aircraft has Van's engine gauges and I was also venturing that the > | transducer might be bad, but during these high oil pressure indications > | the fuel pressure > | would also rise. They would rise at the same points. I'm concerned > | because redline for fuel pressure is 8 psi and the indication at one > | point was 12 psi. > | > | > > Hmmm .... > > I would check the power, ground and sense wires to the gauges. During this > time was the electrical system otherwise doing fine? > > Just a thought. > > James James, The electrical system was working perfectly. Just the way the guages were moving back and forth in relatation to each other, I'm going to take a closer look at the grounding situation up at the manifold. Maybe the lower temperatures are contracting something enough to lose a good ground. Thanks, John Brunke > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ed clegg" <edwclg(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Jam nuts
Date: Jan 28, 2005
Anyone out there experience looseing jam nuts. I have heard of some problem. Is there any reason not to use lock nuts on these..... Thanks, Ed Clegg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)AOL.com
Date: Jan 28, 2005
Subject: Re: high oil and fuel pressure
John, There was a post a few days ago about grounding the Van's gauge mounting "manifold." It is annodized which is a very tough insulator. Take a bolt out and use knife or file to cut through the annodized layer, then run a ground wire to a good ground. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A N766DH (Flying since last July) In a message dated 1/28/05 12:45:18 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net writes: > > Hmmm .... > > I would check the power, ground and sense wires to the gauges. During this > time was the electrical system otherwise doing fine? > > Just a thought. > > James James, The electrical system was working perfectly. Just the way the guages were moving back and forth in relatation to each other, I'm going to take a closer look at the grounding situation up at the manifold. Maybe the lower temperatures are contracting something enough to lose a good ground. Thanks, John Brunke > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 29, 2005
Thanks for all the suggestions on the high readings. I checked the grounding of the pressure transducers and they checked out ok. The lines to the guages are also in order. The high oil pressure I can certainly understand due to the cold weather. I guess the new question is why is the fuel pressure going 2 to 3 psi over red line as the fixed pitch prop comes up to cruise RPM? I'll let you folks know when I get it figured out. John Brunke St. Charles, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 29, 2005
John, Do you have a door at the back of the oil cooler you can close, and if so, did you have it closed? Some have such a door, some don't. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Brunke Subject: Re: RV7-List: high oil and fuel pressure Thanks for all the suggestions on the high readings. I checked the grounding of the pressure transducers and they checked out ok. The lines to the guages are also in order. The high oil pressure I can certainly understand due to the cold weather. I guess the new question is why is the fuel pressure going 2 to 3 psi over red line as the fixed pitch prop comes up to cruise RPM? I'll let you folks know when I get it figured out. John Brunke St. Charles, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: high oil and fuel pressure
Date: Jan 30, 2005
Yes I do have an oil cooler door. The builder did a really nice job on it. I have checked the operation of it and it is working properly. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net> Subject: RE: RV7-List: high oil and fuel pressure > > John, > Do you have a door at the back of the oil cooler you can close, and if so, > did you have it closed? Some have such a door, some don't. > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Brunke > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: high oil and fuel pressure > > > Thanks for all the suggestions on the high readings. > > I checked the grounding of the pressure transducers and they checked out > ok. > The lines to the guages are also in order. > > The high oil pressure I can certainly understand due to the cold weather. > I guess the new question is why is the fuel pressure going 2 to 3 psi over > red line > as the fixed pitch prop comes up to cruise RPM? > > I'll let you folks know when I get it figured out. > > John Brunke > St. Charles, IL > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Patterson" <dpatterson14(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Removing material from HS rear spar
Date: Jan 30, 2005
Dave I am new to the RV 7a empennage also and I had the same question about the trimming the rear spar flange for clearance of the elevator horn. I called Van's and they confirmed that you remove only one inch from both flanges. I placed my spar reinforcement bars in and drew a line along the bottom edge of the bars for one inch in both left and right directions from the center and trimmed on the line. There is no need to go into the radius of the flange. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 01, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hi all, I'm planning ahead here Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the stock Van's item? I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder to fit. Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 01, 2005
I would consider using one next time. Thing is, you need an extended hub propeller if I'm not mistaken. Wonder how much additional stress that puts on the crankshaft. It wouldn't hurt CG-wise. Even if you don't use the Sam James cowl, an extended hub prop would do wonders for allowing more clearance for horizontal induction goodies...ram air inlet, etc. I can tell you that making the ram air inlet work with a compact hub Hartzell was interesting... Back on topic...they sure look pretty with the nose extended with the James cowl. Have you read Randy Lervold's writeup on it? IIRC he said he might not do it that way if he had to do it over. Apparently it added considerable time and labor to the build process. http://www.rv-8.com/Cowl.htm )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > > Hi all, I'm planning ahead here > > Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the > stock Van's item? > > I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder > to fit. > > Thanks > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 01, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Interesting...I saw the write up and it sounds even with the mold corrected it is probably at least SOME more work...Hmm as you say Dan it looks hot! Thisnk I might check out the 4" extension and if Aerosport are happy with this if required,,....Oh and yes, that Van's will refund the cost of the cowl coming with my finish kit...:) Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A I would consider using one next time. Thing is, you need an extended hub propeller if I'm not mistaken. Wonder how much additional stress that puts on the crankshaft. It wouldn't hurt CG-wise. Even if you don't use the Sam James cowl, an extended hub prop would do wonders for allowing more clearance for horizontal induction goodies...ram air inlet, etc. I can tell you that making the ram air inlet work with a compact hub Hartzell was interesting... Back on topic...they sure look pretty with the nose extended with the James cowl. Have you read Randy Lervold's writeup on it? IIRC he said he might not do it that way if he had to do it over. Apparently it added considerable time and labor to the build process. http://www.rv-8.com/Cowl.htm )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > > Hi all, I'm planning ahead here > > Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the > stock Van's item? > > I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder > to fit. > > Thanks > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 01, 2005
I installed one of these on an RV-6A. Lots of hard work, but the cowling worked perfectly, I also made my own NACA duct on the side of the cowling for the oil cooler. All temps would stay normal even in high power slow flight. I did not use the 4" extension, still up in the air about that, With the extension it may be a bit easier. If you would like a picture just send me an email at NOEL(at)BLUESKYAVIATION.NET Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A Hi all, I'm planning ahead here Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the stock Van's item? I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder to fit. Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 01, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Will James just told me he thinks a 4" prop extension will limit the motor to pull about 3.5 G's...Ouch...Don't like that. I could go with an updraft and have no extension but I'm not sure I like that option either....hmmm Any thoughts? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A --> Interesting...I saw the write up and it sounds even with the mold corrected it is probably at least SOME more work...Hmm as you say Dan it looks hot! Thisnk I might check out the 4" extension and if Aerosport are happy with this if required,,....Oh and yes, that Van's will refund the cost of the cowl coming with my finish kit...:) Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A I would consider using one next time. Thing is, you need an extended hub propeller if I'm not mistaken. Wonder how much additional stress that puts on the crankshaft. It wouldn't hurt CG-wise. Even if you don't use the Sam James cowl, an extended hub prop would do wonders for allowing more clearance for horizontal induction goodies...ram air inlet, etc. I can tell you that making the ram air inlet work with a compact hub Hartzell was interesting... Back on topic...they sure look pretty with the nose extended with the James cowl. Have you read Randy Lervold's writeup on it? IIRC he said he might not do it that way if he had to do it over. Apparently it added considerable time and labor to the build process. http://www.rv-8.com/Cowl.htm )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > > Hi all, I'm planning ahead here > > Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the > stock Van's item? > > I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder > to fit. > > Thanks > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 01, 2005
Will James worked with me to come up with a version of the cowl for my **carbureted** RV6A O-360. Maybe this would help you. This version would not require the extension and in theory should be easier to fit. I have the cowl but won't be working on that until it warms up. If you check his site, you will see a picture of it. James | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- | server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) | Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:19 PM | To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A | | | | | Hi all, I'm planning ahead here | | Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the | stock Van's item? | | I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder | to fit. | | Thanks | | Frank | {SNIP} ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2005
From: Dennis Haverlah <clouduster(at)austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
I just recieved the Sam James rotary versioin for my 7A. I plan on using a Mazda RX-8 engine and Tracy Crook's PSRU. The workmanship on the cowl is great. It has the shark air intake below the spinner. I won't be installing it until this spring. Dennis Haverlah James E. Clark wrote: > >Will James worked with me to come up with a version of the cowl for my >**carbureted** RV6A O-360. Maybe this would help you. > >This version would not require the extension and in theory should be easier >to fit. I have the cowl but won't be working on that until it warms up. > >If you check his site, you will see a picture of it. > >James > > >| -----Original Message----- >| From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- >| server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) >| Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:19 PM >| To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >| Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A >| >| >| >| >| Hi all, I'm planning ahead here >| >| Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the >| stock Van's item? >| >| I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder >| to fit. >| >| Thanks >| >| Frank >| >{SNIP} > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Comeaux" <mcomeaux(at)bendnet.com>
Subject: Re: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 01, 2005
I had Noel Simmons install one on my 6A. I would definetly recommend a prop extension that Sam James recommends during installation. Noel chopped off approx 3-4" to make it fit and in doing so had to mold blisters in front of cowl to accomodate starter & alternator. Added a lot more cost to installation. Anybody interested in pics e-mail me off list I'll forward. Mike Comeaux mcomeaux(at)bendnet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > > > Hi all, I'm planning ahead here > > Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the > stock Van's item? > > I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder > to fit. > > Thanks > > Frank > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "benandginny" <benandginny(at)insightbb.com>
"RV7-List Digest List"
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 02/01/05
Date: Feb 02, 2005
Hey Dennis, Does Sam (Will) James ship the cowl in a crate or how does he package it.? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if I get one can I use his container to return my Van's cowl. Ben Cunningham RV7 Finish Kit ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > From: Dennis Haverlah <clouduster(at)austin.rr.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > > I just recieved the Sam James rotary versioin for my 7A. I plan on > using a Mazda RX-8 engine and Tracy Crook's PSRU. The workmanship on > the cowl is great. It has the shark air intake below the spinner. I > won't be installing it until this spring. > Dennis Haverlah ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cruise performance
Date: Feb 02, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
I know an email about fuel economy and RV's is kind of an oxymoron and it fact it hard to pin down data. However part of my intended mission is long cross countries and it appears the RV 7 could be pretty good, especially going slower but of course I want to get there as well! So with an IO360 with a modern EI and FI packages what do these planes get at 200mph in the way of fuel burn? I admit to a slightly hidden adgenda, I am pretty convinced the cooling drag with a water cooled motor causes more drag and while there are claims of the "same performance" to an IO360 it gets blurry to know at what fuel burn they are making the same speed. So what are your experiences? Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Cruise performance
Date: Feb 02, 2005
> So with an IO360 with a modern EI and FI packages what do these planes > get at 200mph in the way of fuel burn? At 173 KTAS (200mph true airspeed), mine burns about 8.7 gph. IO-360-A1B6 w/single Lightspeed Plasma II. I lean to about 50 ROP. With a 180hp injected + EI you can probably beat that by a tenth of a gallon per hour or two. > So what are your experiences? When I fly in formation with slower planes, and we do 160 to 165 KTAS or so (kind of a lowest common denominator speed), I'm usually burning 7 to 7.5 gph. Other planes in the formation without FI or EI are burning 2+ gph more than I am -- with smaller engines. When I fly alone and am travelling "to get there," I fly at full throttle, 2470 RPM, leaned to 50 ROP. At 8000' DA, I usually see 9.4 to 9.6 gph and about 175 to 180 KTAS. I haven't even mentioned LOP operations...if you can live without the high speed, you can get the fuel burn down dramatically. FI + EI kicks butt for economy...and allows you to really fine tune power output to your intention for the particular conditions. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cruise performance
Date: Feb 02, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Damn that's good! With my fuel system set up to run autogas this is going to be cheaper than running my Dodge Neon...Well...Maybe not...:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Cruise performance > So with an IO360 with a modern EI and FI packages what do these planes > get at 200mph in the way of fuel burn? At 173 KTAS (200mph true airspeed), mine burns about 8.7 gph. IO-360-A1B6 w/single Lightspeed Plasma II. I lean to about 50 ROP. With a 180hp injected + EI you can probably beat that by a tenth of a gallon per hour or two. > So what are your experiences? When I fly in formation with slower planes, and we do 160 to 165 KTAS or so (kind of a lowest common denominator speed), I'm usually burning 7 to 7.5 gph. Other planes in the formation without FI or EI are burning 2+ gph more than I am -- with smaller engines. When I fly alone and am travelling "to get there," I fly at full throttle, 2470 RPM, leaned to 50 ROP. At 8000' DA, I usually see 9.4 to 9.6 gph and about 175 to 180 KTAS. I haven't even mentioned LOP operations...if you can live without the high speed, you can get the fuel burn down dramatically. FI + EI kicks butt for economy...and allows you to really fine tune power output to your intention for the particular conditions. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 02, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Seems like there is nervousness around using a 4" prop extension and C/s prop for aerobatics. Can't as yet find a definative answer. If the 3.5G limit is true and the Hartzell weighs a hefty 53lbs, then one answer might be a Whirlwind prop which weighs a 20lb less?...Trouble is thst option is another 2000 bucks (performance seems about the same) and it still might not get back to the 6G the airframe is rated for. Hmm...the extra 5 mph is looking expensive in terms of cash and/or aerobatic performance loss. Any thoughts anyone? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A --> Will James just told me he thinks a 4" prop extension will limit the motor to pull about 3.5 G's...Ouch...Don't like that. I could go with an updraft and have no extension but I'm not sure I like that option either....hmmm Any thoughts? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A --> Interesting...I saw the write up and it sounds even with the mold corrected it is probably at least SOME more work...Hmm as you say Dan it looks hot! Thisnk I might check out the 4" extension and if Aerosport are happy with this if required,,....Oh and yes, that Van's will refund the cost of the cowl coming with my finish kit...:) Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A I would consider using one next time. Thing is, you need an extended hub propeller if I'm not mistaken. Wonder how much additional stress that puts on the crankshaft. It wouldn't hurt CG-wise. Even if you don't use the Sam James cowl, an extended hub prop would do wonders for allowing more clearance for horizontal induction goodies...ram air inlet, etc. I can tell you that making the ram air inlet work with a compact hub Hartzell was interesting... Back on topic...they sure look pretty with the nose extended with the James cowl. Have you read Randy Lervold's writeup on it? IIRC he said he might not do it that way if he had to do it over. Apparently it added considerable time and labor to the build process. http://www.rv-8.com/Cowl.htm )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > > Hi all, I'm planning ahead here > > Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the > stock Van's item? > > I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder > to fit. > > Thanks > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: PROP SELECTION
Date: Feb 03, 2005
My thoughts on prop selection. A C/S prop is unlikely to make a plane go faster than a properly selected coarse pitch fixed pitch prop. It does provide flexibility between climb and cruise regimes, at a substantial cost in dollars and weight. Generally, without a G-suit, most of us will start to grey out around 4.5G, which is probably the practical G limit for most of us, variable with age, fitness and recent exposure to G. A conventional C/S prop is excellent for aerobatics. It treats the engine very gently and provides lots of protection against overspeed. The difference between a conventional and aerobatic C/S props is in the form of protection against oil supply failure. A conventional prop that loses oil pressure will fail to fine pitch, so the plane can climb and complete a flight. An aerobatic prop has counterweights and a reversed failure mode. The aerobatic prop will fail to coarse pitch to prevent engine overspeed during aeros. This means the governor acts in reverse. The counterweights are there to provide protection from momentary failure of oil pressure during very vigorous aeros, they keep the pitch as-is during short duration excursions in oil pressure. Others with better knowledge may elaborate more accurately on this point. RVs are for recreational aeros only, not hard core vigorous stuff, so for most of us a conventional C/S prop is really good for the engine compared to fixed pitch. Provided you have the budget - a C/S prop will not pay for itself in fuel savings, as fuel injection and electronic ignition will. A final observation. Certified aerobatic aircraft have to meet a requirement that, when going down vertically, at full power, the plane will not exceed Vne. That is why 200hp planes like the Cap 10 are draggy and only cruise at 120kts. An RV is experimental and does not meet that criteria, its a slippery critter downhill. A fine pitch prop is an important brake when going downhill. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com] Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A Seems like there is nervousness around using a 4" prop extension and C/s prop for aerobatics. Can't as yet find a definative answer. If the 3.5G limit is true and the Hartzell weighs a hefty 53lbs, then one answer might be a Whirlwind prop which weighs a 20lb less?...Trouble is thst option is another 2000 bucks (performance seems about the same) and it still might not get back to the 6G the airframe is rated for. Hmm...the extra 5 mph is looking expensive in terms of cash and/or aerobatic performance loss. Any thoughts anyone? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 02, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Another update, Spoke to Sam Tilleman at Sabre manufacturing who tells me that "sure a 4" inch extension will cause more wear if you doin hardcore aerobatics, but will it break anything?...NO!" He says he has litterally hundreds of the extensions out there some of them pulling some hardcore G's.He waxed lyrical about Berkuts pulling vertical with a 540 with a 6 to 8" extension and all that. Really it comes down to...How much hardcore aerobatics are going to do?...Good point! The other interesting observation was that his current plane runs a Hartzell C/C which is coming off at the the first sign of the next AD. He is sure the AD's have cost him way more than the extra $2K a Whirlwind 200 will cost. Whilrwind save quite a bit of weight too. Of course we don't know what AD's (of course they don't really exist in experimental land) the Whirlwind will need either or when the front bearing will start knocking...probably not in the 2000 hour TBO. So apart from the risk of not being able to put 200lbs of baggage behind the seats it looks like the Holy Cowl/ Whirlwind combo might be a good plan. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A --> Seems like there is nervousness around using a 4" prop extension and C/s prop for aerobatics. Can't as yet find a definative answer. If the 3.5G limit is true and the Hartzell weighs a hefty 53lbs, then one answer might be a Whirlwind prop which weighs a 20lb less?...Trouble is thst option is another 2000 bucks (performance seems about the same) and it still might not get back to the 6G the airframe is rated for. Hmm...the extra 5 mph is looking expensive in terms of cash and/or aerobatic performance loss. Any thoughts anyone? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A --> Will James just told me he thinks a 4" prop extension will limit the motor to pull about 3.5 G's...Ouch...Don't like that. I could go with an updraft and have no extension but I'm not sure I like that option either....hmmm Any thoughts? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A --> Interesting...I saw the write up and it sounds even with the mold corrected it is probably at least SOME more work...Hmm as you say Dan it looks hot! Thisnk I might check out the 4" extension and if Aerosport are happy with this if required,,....Oh and yes, that Van's will refund the cost of the cowl coming with my finish kit...:) Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A I would consider using one next time. Thing is, you need an extended hub propeller if I'm not mistaken. Wonder how much additional stress that puts on the crankshaft. It wouldn't hurt CG-wise. Even if you don't use the Sam James cowl, an extended hub prop would do wonders for allowing more clearance for horizontal induction goodies...ram air inlet, etc. I can tell you that making the ram air inlet work with a compact hub Hartzell was interesting... Back on topic...they sure look pretty with the nose extended with the James cowl. Have you read Randy Lervold's writeup on it? IIRC he said he might not do it that way if he had to do it over. Apparently it added considerable time and labor to the build process. http://www.rv-8.com/Cowl.htm )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > > Hi all, I'm planning ahead here > > Anyone have any thoughts about using one of these cowls compared to the > stock Van's item? > > I seen some posts that claim performance but at the cost of being harder > to fit. > > Thanks > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2005
From: mark manda <mark2nite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: PROP SELECTION
If you get a WW RV200 prop now called Titan, you might want to keep it in the back of your mind that the RV-7a engine cowling will need cutting,refitting or replacing. Either the lower half or the upper half. I'm off 3/32" at an angle so my "fitted for a Hartzell" lower cowling is a paper weight and a new lower $445 cowling is being shipped. I know another RV-7a builder who also has a lower cowling available since buying a WWRV200 prop. Supposedly they(the WWRV 200) bolt right on the RV-8's. YMMV. __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)AOL.com
Date: Feb 02, 2005
Subject: Whirl Wind prop fit
I had fitted my 7A cowl for the Hartzell but finally bought the Whirl Wind RV200. Before purchase WW said that the fit is the same --- NOT. The spinner gently rubbed the cowl and there is no adjustment. I'm thinking "hours and hours of work shot, not to mention the cost of replacing both the top and bottom cowl halves". I decided to build up the inside of the cowl ring 5/32" +/- with epoxy and glass and then sanded the front to fit. It's better than the original Hartzell fit. I made the gap at the top 1/8" and the bottom 3/16" to account for the eventual engine sag. I'm assumed 1/4" sag (pure guess work) and ran a computer model to get that 1/16" difference. There is a photo of the installation at: http://users.aol.com/n67bt Bob Trumpfheller PS, the original was posted on the RV7 list but I thought it might be of interest to some RV listers as well. < If you get a WW RV200 prop now called Titan, you might want to keep it in the back of your mind that the RV-7a engine cowling will need cutting,refitting or replacing. Either the lower half or the upper half. I'm off 3/32" at an angle so my "fitted for a Hartzell" lower cowling is a paper weight and a new lower $445 cowling is being shipped. I know another RV-7a builder who also has a lower cowling available since buying a WWRV200 prop. Supposedly they(the WWRV 200) bolt right on the RV-8's. YMMV. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 02/01/05
Date: Feb 03, 2005
Hey Ben, You're a pilot of UPS for crying out loud!!!! Go to the back and find a box. The Sam James should work fine for the turbo charged subaru. It is about 6" longer according to Sam. You will need roughly 4.5" additional length for everything to fit. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: PROP SELECTION
Date: Feb 03, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Good point, In my case however I'm starting from scratch so its either a WW200RV/Howly cowl/4"extension or Hartz/vans cowl. I need to check on the cost of the Vans cowl and spinner for return to get the net cost delta between the two setups. Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark manda Subject: Re: RV7-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: PROP SELECTION If you get a WW RV200 prop now called Titan, you might want to keep it in the back of your mind that the RV-7a engine cowling will need cutting,refitting or replacing. Either the lower half or the upper half. I'm off 3/32" at an angle so my "fitted for a Hartzell" lower cowling is a paper weight and a new lower $445 cowling is being shipped. I know another RV-7a builder who also has a lower cowling available since buying a WWRV200 prop. Supposedly they(the WWRV 200) bolt right on the RV-8's. YMMV. __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2005
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>)
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] RE: Electrical Tools
of Matt Dralle ) > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a(at)yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 06:35 (CDT) > Subject: [RV7Yahoo] RE: Electrical Tools > > Hi to all > > Ready to start the electrical process and need to get tools. What have you > folks found to be a good set / type / name brand electrical tools to buy. I > do know my house construction electrical tools are a bit much for the > planes delicate wires and materials. > > TIA You can get everything you need here: http://www.bandc.biz/parts.html http://www.steinair.com/ You'll need: RCT-1 - PIDG Style Crimp Tool RCT-2 - BNC Coax Crimp Tool RCT-3 - D-Sub Pin/Socket Crimper (maybe) BCT-1 - B-Crimp Open Barrel Terminal Tool (maybe) DSE-1 - Insertion/Extraction Tool - D-Sub Pin (maybe) ------- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 03, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Some cost comparisons, Vans will refund $800 for the cowl and all the hardware to fit it. Holy cowl costs $950 Plenum to match $400 Hardware guess $ 50... Prop extension $400 Total ..........1800....Less$800 refund from Vans gives a cost increase of $1000 to use the Sam James cowl. Ouch!...Back to hanging lead on the front of the engine mount instead I think...:) Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Blakey" <gblakey(at)vic.australis.com.au>
Subject: Re: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 04, 2005
Frank, Does anyone know if Vans supply a flush cowl to match the WW 200RV prop without major modifications or are they all the one style for constant speed? Regards, Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A > > Some cost comparisons, > > Vans will refund $800 for the cowl and all the hardware to fit it. > > Holy cowl costs $950 > Plenum to match $400 > Hardware guess $ 50... > Prop extension $400 > > Total ..........1800....Less$800 refund from Vans gives a cost increase > of $1000 to use the Sam James cowl. > > Ouch!...Back to hanging lead on the front of the engine mount instead I > think...:) > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 03, 2005
Are you using an IO360 engine? If you are using the O-360 carbureted engine, then no prop extension required with the latest cowl from Will. James | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- | server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) | Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:21 PM | To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A | | | | Some cost comparisons, | | Vans will refund $800 for the cowl and all the hardware to fit it. | | Holy cowl costs $950 | Plenum to match $400 | Hardware guess $ 50... | Prop extension $400 | | Total ..........1800....Less$800 refund from Vans gives a cost | increase of $1000 to use the Sam James cowl. | | Ouch!...Back to hanging lead on the front of the engine mount instead | I | think...:) | | Frank | ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
Date: Feb 03, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
No...Injected,...:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James E. Clark Subject: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A --> Are you using an IO360 engine? If you are using the O-360 carbureted engine, then no prop extension required with the latest cowl from Will. James | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- | server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) | Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:21 PM | To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: RE: RV7-List: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A | | | | Some cost comparisons, | | Vans will refund $800 for the cowl and all the hardware to fit it. | | Holy cowl costs $950 | Plenum to match $400 | Hardware guess $ 50... | Prop extension $400 | | Total ..........1800....Less$800 refund from Vans gives a cost | increase of $1000 to use the Sam James cowl. | | Ouch!...Back to hanging lead on the front of the engine mount instead | I | think...:) | | Frank | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)AOL.com
Date: Feb 03, 2005
Subject: Re: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
My standard Vans, RV7A, IO360, 200 HP cowl would have worked fine for the WW RV200. Just trim a little more at the firewall. Bob Trumpfheller http://users.aol.com/n67bt --> RV7-List message posted by: "Greg Blakey" _gblakey(at)vic.australis.com.au_ (mailto:gblakey(at)vic.australis.com.au) < Frank, Does anyone know if Vans supply a flush cowl to match the WW 200RV prop without major modifications or are they all the one style for constant speed? Regards, Greg > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2005
From: mark manda <mark2nite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sam James Holy cowl, RV 7A
I concur, the stock cowl would work fine BEFORE using Van's suggested 2.25". --- N67BT(at)AOL.com wrote: > > > My standard Vans, RV7A, IO360, 200 HP cowl would > have worked fine for the WW > RV200. Just trim a little more at the firewall. > > Bob Trumpfheller > > http://users.aol.com/n67bt > > > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Greg Blakey" > _gblakey(at)vic.australis.com.au_ > (mailto:gblakey(at)vic.australis.com.au) > > < Frank, > > Does anyone know if Vans supply a flush cowl to > match the WW 200RV prop > without major modifications or are they all the one > style for constant > speed? > > Regards, Greg > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV7-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2005
Subject: Help..."Extra" holes in wing spar stub and F704 pieces?
From: Andrew Douglas <adouglas(at)optonline.net>
Because of a mistake I made that's almost too dumb to talk about (I didn't notice some holes that were to be used to match drill some parts until after I'd drilled holes in the wrong place), we now are very gun-shy when we see a hole that seems to be extraneous, or don't find a hole that we think should be there. We've found a few of the former (holes with no apparent purpose) on the main spar and its corresponding bulkhead assembly (F704). Can anyone tell me why there are two holes on the wing spar web, at the inboard end, next to the nutplates that receive the two small bolts which pass through the F704G bars? Dwg 11, sector B9...you'll clearly see the two trios of holes for the nutplates, but there are two additional holes there. These holes line up with the rivet holes that you drill through the 704G bars. However, as far as we can tell they have no purpose. We're absolutely sure that the holes in the 704Gs get rivets in them, which hold 704G to the 704B aft bulkhead and 704D vertical. The manufactured heads of the rivets are definitely meant to set into the 704G, which means that these holes in the spar serve no purpose and can be ignored, right? Or do they? We're looking at each other and constantly saying "it wouldn't be there if there weren't a reason for it." For that matter, if the bolts that go through the 704G bars and into the spar terminate in nutplates that are riveted to the spar, then why the heck are there bolt holes in the FORWARD 704D too? Same deal...they have no apparent purpose. Please help. ----------------------------------------------------- Andrew Douglas Page 8-2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Date: Feb 19, 2005
Subject: Re: Help..."Extra" holes in wing spar stub and F704 pieces?
Look carefully on the plans there are a few holes that are for tooling purposes and will not have a rivet installed. These were possibly there to hold the piece in place in a fixture or jig in order to match drill the spars together. You are right to check 2-3-4 times and then drill. Good luck Tad Sargent Sargentclt(at)CS.com RV7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel Storer" <dstorer(at)okwifi.com>
Subject: Planning for an engine
Date: Feb 20, 2005
I would like to build my own engine for my 7A. I'm looking at an IO-360 180 hp with a CS prop. I've been told the 200 hp weighs 30-40 lbs more and cost significantly more for the extra 20 hp, so I can't justify it. Has anyone found a good kit engine that they have assembled, and if so who, how much and what was your experience? Regards, Dan S. RV7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sjevans" <sjevans(at)cox.net>
Subject: Planning for an engine
Date: Feb 20, 2005
Dan, Haven't done this, but hear good things. Checkout Superior's XP-360 build options. http://www.xp-360.com/ Sam 7A@ABI -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Storer Subject: RV7-List: Planning for an engine I would like to build my own engine for my 7A. I'm looking at an IO-360 180 hp with a CS prop. I've been told the 200 hp weighs 30-40 lbs more and cost significantly more for the extra 20 hp, so I can't justify it. Has anyone found a good kit engine that they have assembled, and if so who, how much and what was your experience? Regards, Dan S. RV7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Planning for an engine
Date: Feb 20, 2005
Dan, There was just an article in last months "Kitplanes" about Superior's IO-360 engine. You can buy the kit or go to their factory in Dallas and build an engine under their supervision. Hope that helps. John Brunke, N215KC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: Planning for an engine
Date: Feb 22, 2005
clamav-milter version 0.80j on apollo Check this out: http://brian76.mystarband.net/SuperiorTextPics.htm brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Storer Subject: RV7-List: Planning for an engine I would like to build my own engine for my 7A. I'm looking at an IO-360 180 hp with a CS prop. I've been told the 200 hp weighs 30-40 lbs more and cost significantly more for the extra 20 hp, so I can't justify it. Has anyone found a good kit engine that they have assembled, and if so who, how much and what was your experience? Regards, Dan S. RV7A -- Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. -- Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "springcanyon" <springcanyon(at)mymethow.com>
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
I am working on an RV-7 and am approaching the time when I need to know which or what engine I am going to install. I love the idea of a diesel engine. Since this is a major investment as well as one of the most important parts of my airplane I would like some other opinions. I have talked with Delta Hawk and their engine sounds good and looks good. The thing that bothers me is the total lack of field experience with this engine. Anyone have opinions about this? Thanks, Don Owens springcanyon(at)mymethow.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Any ...and I mean any water cooled engine out there will produce more cooling drag than an aircooled one will. Note a good aircooled Lycosaurus will do around 200mph on 10 GPH. Similar fuel burn on a very good water cooled automotive conversion will give less than 180mph. It will still do 200mph but the fuel burn will get significant...I think fuel burn is proportional to speed squared (or is that cubed?) and that part of the curve will get pretty steep. Not saying that drag can't be reduced (P51 Mustang style scoops and optimised radiators) but it certainly won't be a bolt on package. I hate to say it but about the best bet is a Lycoming...And I spent a year trying to prove otherwise...I even fly behind a little Subaru in a Zenair Zodiac....A total engine rebuild for a couple of grand is sure attractive but I just can't have a slow plane anymore and to burn another 3 to 4 GPH to make the speed I want gets to be a big bill over 2000 hours as well... My 2 cents Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of springcanyon Subject: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 --> I am working on an RV-7 and am approaching the time when I need to know which or what engine I am going to install. I love the idea of a diesel engine. Since this is a major investment as well as one of the most important parts of my airplane I would like some other opinions. I have talked with Delta Hawk and their engine sounds good and looks good. The thing that bothers me is the total lack of field experience with this engine. Anyone have opinions about this? Thanks, Don Owens springcanyon(at)mymethow.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Dwinal <GDwinal(at)fisherplows.com>
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
Not flying yet, but I have a GM V6 truck engine in my plane along with the firewall forward package from Belted Air Power. The air intake is the original size and the radiator is mounted on the firewall with the original air exit openings. My engine (modestly modified) will produce around 225 HP and should make the plane cruise comfortably in the 200MPH range and the fuel burn should be no more than 10 GPM. Again, this is purely speculation on my behalf, but after talking with several others that have gone the GM V6 route with the kit from BAP, I think the assumption that a liquid cooled engine will always create more drag is controversial at best. There is a reason Burt Rutan absolutely required one of the engines in his "non-stop around the world airplane" to be liquid cooled! Gary Dwinal RV7A -----Original Message----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com] Subject: RE: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 --> Any ...and I mean any water cooled engine out there will produce more cooling drag than an aircooled one will. Note a good aircooled Lycosaurus will do around 200mph on 10 GPH. Similar fuel burn on a very good water cooled automotive conversion will give less than 180mph. It will still do 200mph but the fuel burn will get significant...I think fuel burn is proportional to speed squared (or is that cubed?) and that part of the curve will get pretty steep. Not saying that drag can't be reduced (P51 Mustang style scoops and optimised radiators) but it certainly won't be a bolt on package. I hate to say it but about the best bet is a Lycoming...And I spent a year trying to prove otherwise...I even fly behind a little Subaru in a Zenair Zodiac....A total engine rebuild for a couple of grand is sure attractive but I just can't have a slow plane anymore and to burn another 3 to 4 GPH to make the speed I want gets to be a big bill over 2000 hours as well... My 2 cents Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of springcanyon Subject: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 --> I am working on an RV-7 and am approaching the time when I need to know which or what engine I am going to install. I love the idea of a diesel engine. Since this is a major investment as well as one of the most important parts of my airplane I would like some other opinions. I have talked with Delta Hawk and their engine sounds good and looks good. The thing that bothers me is the total lack of field experience with this engine. Anyone have opinions about this? Thanks, Don Owens springcanyon(at)mymethow.com advertising on the Matronics Forums. NOTICE: The information contained in this communication is intended solely for use by the designated recipient(s). This communication may also contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to confidentiality protection under the law. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender and destroy your copy. Thank you for your cooperation. Fisher Engineering, a division of Douglas Dynamics, LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Dwinal <GDwinal(at)fisherplows.com>
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
The only experience I have had with the Delta Hawk is a non flying running demonstration at Osh Kosh and couple of years ago. The engine was extremely noisy. It seemed to run very well and very smooth though. I do not know what the fuel burn is for them. Gary Dwinal -----Original Message----- From: springcanyon [mailto:springcanyon(at)mymethow.com] Subject: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 --> I am working on an RV-7 and am approaching the time when I need to know which or what engine I am going to install. I love the idea of a diesel engine. Since this is a major investment as well as one of the most important parts of my airplane I would like some other opinions. I have talked with Delta Hawk and their engine sounds good and looks good. The thing that bothers me is the total lack of field experience with this engine. Anyone have opinions about this? Thanks, Don Owens springcanyon(at)mymethow.com advertising on the Matronics Forums. NOTICE: The information contained in this communication is intended solely for use by the designated recipient(s). This communication may also contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to confidentiality protection under the law. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender and destroy your copy. Thank you for your cooperation. Fisher Engineering, a division of Douglas Dynamics, LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2005
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
On 9:44:22 2005-02-23 Gary Dwinal wrote: > Not flying yet, but I have a GM V6 truck engine in my plane along > with the firewall forward package from Belted Air Power. The air > intake is the original size and the radiator is mounted on the > firewall with the original air exit openings...I think the assumption > that a liquid cooled engine will always create more drag is controversial > at best. The fact that the size of the inlet and exit openings is the same doesn't mean much on it's own. If you just put a radiator between the inlet and exit like on your conversion, and don't put one there on a Lycoming installation, the drag will be higher on the engine with the radiator due to the back pressure it generates as air slows down to flow through the rad. It is possible to control the air flow to and from the rad with well-designed expansion (upstream) and compression (downstream) chambers around the rad. I seem to recall reading that on a P-51 in the right cruise configuration you could realize a small amount of *thrust* from this arrangement. But that's some finicky engineering to get the cooling to that point. I guess what i'm saying is that if you have an airplane that's designed from the start to use a water-cooled engine, you can design the airplane to take advantage of the water cooling and to realize the least drag. But when you have an airplane that's designed for an air-cooled engine, trying to retrofit a water-cooled one later isn't likely to be as efficient. > My engine (modestly > modified) will produce around 225 HP and should make the plane cruise > comfortably in the 200MPH range and the fuel burn should be no more > than 10 GPM. As the original poster pointed out, 200MPH can be achieved with a 200HP Lycoming, so it sounds like you need an extra 25HP to get there with your conversion. Not saying the fuel burn will be higher as a result, but it's quite likely. -Rob (Considering the Renesis Rotary engine for my -7, so i'm really not against auto-conversions... really!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Dwinal <GDwinal(at)fisherplows.com>
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
The fact that the size of the inlet and exit openings is the same doesn't mean much on it's own. If you just put a radiator between the inlet and exit like on your conversion, and don't put one there on a Lycoming installation, the drag will be higher on the engine with the radiator due to the back pressure it generates as air slows down to flow through the rad. It is possible to control the air flow to and from the rad with well-designed expansion (upstream) and compression (downstream) chambers around the rad. I seem to recall reading that on a P-51 in the right cruise configuration you could realize a small amount of *thrust* from this arrangement. But that's some finicky engineering to get the cooling to that point. I guess what i'm saying is that if you have an airplane that's designed from the start to use a water-cooled engine, you can design the airplane to take advantage of the water cooling and to realize the least drag. But when you have an airplane that's designed for an air-cooled engine, trying to retrofit a water-cooled one later isn't likely to be as efficient. > My engine (modestly > modified) will produce around 225 HP and should make the plane cruise > comfortably in the 200MPH range and the fuel burn should be no more > than 10 GPM. As the original poster pointed out, 200MPH can be achieved with a 200HP Lycoming, so it sounds like you need an extra 25HP to get there with your conversion. Not saying the fuel burn will be higher as a result, but it's quite likely. -Rob (Considering the Renesis Rotary engine for my -7, so i'm really not against auto-conversions... really!) advertising on the Matronics Forums. NOTICE: The information contained in this communication is intended solely for use by the designated recipient(s). This communication may also contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to confidentiality protection under the law. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender and destroy your copy. Thank you for your cooperation. Fisher Engineering, a division of Douglas Dynamics, LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Dwinal <GDwinal(at)fisherplows.com>
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
>As the original poster pointed out, 200MPH can be achieved with a 200HP Lycoming, so it sounds >like you need an extra 25HP to get there with your conversion. Not saying the fuel burn will >be higher as a result, but it's quite likely. >-Rob Rob - I pretty much agree with everything you said - but, What has not been said on this thread is the highly documented fact that liquid cooled engines do not require nearly the same amount of fuel as air cooled engines do per BHP. Air cooled engines require additional fuel to help cool the engine. I do not believe my 225HP liquid cooled engine will require 10GPH to operate at 200 MPH like the 200HP Lycoming does. I have a brand new lycoming 0-360 in my Cherokee and it requires a lot more than 10 GPM at only 155 MPH. But then that airplane is a slug aerodynamically when compared to the RV's. This is an argument that will go on for years and years, but Jess Meyers has been flying his GM V6 powered RV6 for about 9 years now with only routine maintenance and I for one am very impressed with that statistic. Plus I am old hot rod guy that has built many, many race car and hot rod engines and I have always wanted to build my own car type engine for an airplane! Gary Dwinal (Considering the Renesis Rotary engine for my -7, so i'm really not against auto-conversions... really!) advertising on the Matronics Forums. NOTICE: The information contained in this communication is intended solely for use by the designated recipient(s). This communication may also contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to confidentiality protection under the law. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender and destroy your copy. Thank you for your cooperation. Fisher Engineering, a division of Douglas Dynamics, LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
All I can tell you is that when I finally nailed down some builders of the Eggenfelner Subaru FWF the numbers were as I described. I honestly think it MAY be possible to design a cooling system (pressure recovery ducts etc) that will produce close to the same drag as an air cooled motor, but remember you got 2 to 3 times the flowrate of air in a water cooled motor than an aircooled unit (in theory)...If true thats a lot more drag. One guy built two identical RV 7's the soob did 178mph at 10 GPH and the Lyc did 200mph. Once again both our perpestives are purely speculative and builders have been known to stretch the truth...Heaven forbid!...:) I wonder how Burt Ruan designed the cooling system for his motor..Is it not possible it was only designed for say 75% power?...I.e full power on take off but throttle back before it overheated? He could have significantly have reduced the cooling drag that way too. Liquid cooled motors are more evently cooled and can therefore be built with tighter tolerances which makes them more efficient and reliable. My guess is Burt was looking for really good economy cruise at reduced power with exceptional reliabitlity. Best of luck with your project. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Dwinal Subject: RE: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 Not flying yet, but I have a GM V6 truck engine in my plane along with the firewall forward package from Belted Air Power. The air intake is the original size and the radiator is mounted on the firewall with the original air exit openings. My engine (modestly modified) will produce around 225 HP and should make the plane cruise comfortably in the 200MPH range and the fuel burn should be no more than 10 GPM. Again, this is purely speculation on my behalf, but after talking with several others that have gone the GM V6 route with the kit from BAP, I think the assumption that a liquid cooled engine will always create more drag is controversial at best. There is a reason Burt Rutan absolutely required one of the engines in his "non-stop around the world airplane" to be liquid cooled! Gary Dwinal RV7A -----Original Message----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com] Subject: RE: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 --> Any ...and I mean any water cooled engine out there will produce more cooling drag than an aircooled one will. Note a good aircooled Lycosaurus will do around 200mph on 10 GPH. Similar fuel burn on a very good water cooled automotive conversion will give less than 180mph. It will still do 200mph but the fuel burn will get significant...I think fuel burn is proportional to speed squared (or is that cubed?) and that part of the curve will get pretty steep. Not saying that drag can't be reduced (P51 Mustang style scoops and optimised radiators) but it certainly won't be a bolt on package. I hate to say it but about the best bet is a Lycoming...And I spent a year trying to prove otherwise...I even fly behind a little Subaru in a Zenair Zodiac....A total engine rebuild for a couple of grand is sure attractive but I just can't have a slow plane anymore and to burn another 3 to 4 GPH to make the speed I want gets to be a big bill over 2000 hours as well... My 2 cents Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of springcanyon Subject: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 --> I am working on an RV-7 and am approaching the time when I need to know which or what engine I am going to install. I love the idea of a diesel engine. Since this is a major investment as well as one of the most important parts of my airplane I would like some other opinions. I have talked with Delta Hawk and their engine sounds good and looks good. The thing that bothers me is the total lack of field experience with this engine. Anyone have opinions about this? Thanks, Don Owens springcanyon(at)mymethow.com advertising on the Matronics Forums. NOTICE: The information contained in this communication is intended solely for use by the designated recipient(s). This communication may also contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to confidentiality protection under the law. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender and destroy your copy. Thank you for your cooperation. Fisher Engineering, a division of Douglas Dynamics, LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2005
From: Steve Noujaim <nouj(at)compuserve.com> pieces?
Subject: Help..."Extra" holes in wing spar stub and F704
pieces? Hi They are may be either for tooling or for that extra wiring I reckon. You may wish to check out Dan Checkoways site rvproject.com he has loads of pictures and its full of handy hints ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Diesel engine for an RV-7
Date: Feb 23, 2005
Basic reason for the water cooled Continental on the Voyager was it was FREE! and they threw in a prop as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Dwinal" <GDwinal(at)fisherplows.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 > > Not flying yet, but I have a GM V6 truck engine in my plane along with the > firewall forward package from Belted Air Power. The air intake is the > original size and the radiator is mounted on the firewall with the > original > air exit openings. My engine (modestly modified) will produce around 225 > HP > and should make the plane cruise comfortably in the 200MPH range and the > fuel burn should be no more than 10 GPM. Again, this is purely > speculation > on my behalf, but after talking with several others that have gone the GM > V6 > route with the kit from BAP, I think the assumption that a liquid cooled > engine will always create more drag is controversial at best. There is a > reason Burt Rutan absolutely required one of the engines in his "non-stop > around the world airplane" to be liquid cooled! > > Gary Dwinal > RV7A > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com] > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 > > > --> > > Any ...and I mean any water cooled engine out there will produce more > cooling drag than an aircooled one will. > > Note a good aircooled Lycosaurus will do around 200mph on 10 GPH. Similar > fuel burn on a very good water cooled automotive conversion will give less > than 180mph. > > It will still do 200mph but the fuel burn will get significant...I think > fuel burn is proportional to speed squared (or is that cubed?) and that > part > of the curve will get pretty steep. > > Not saying that drag can't be reduced (P51 Mustang style scoops and > optimised radiators) but it certainly won't be a bolt on package. > > I hate to say it but about the best bet is a Lycoming...And I spent a year > trying to prove otherwise...I even fly behind a little Subaru in a Zenair > Zodiac....A total engine rebuild for a couple of grand is sure attractive > but I just can't have a slow plane anymore and to burn another 3 to 4 GPH > to > make the speed I want gets to be a big bill over 2000 hours as well... > > My 2 cents > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of springcanyon > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: Diesel engine for an RV-7 > > --> > > I am working on an RV-7 and am approaching the time when I need to know > which or what engine I am going to install. I love the idea of a diesel > engine. Since this is a major investment as well as one of the most > important parts of my airplane I would like some other opinions. I have > talked with Delta Hawk and their engine sounds good and looks good. The > thing that bothers me is the total lack of field experience with this > engine. Anyone have opinions about this? > > Thanks, > Don Owens > springcanyon(at)mymethow.com > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > > NOTICE: The information contained in this communication is intended > solely > for use by the designated recipient(s). This communication may also > contain > confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to > confidentiality protection under the law. If you are not a designated > recipient, you may not review, copy, or distribute this message. If you > receive this message in error, please notify the sender and destroy your > copy. > Thank you for your cooperation. > Fisher Engineering, a division of Douglas Dynamics, LLC > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins(at)visi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Job looks like Crap...
Date: Feb 27, 2005
I've had generally the same results with the SW primer. The thing is: I really LIKE the primer. It's hard as nails. I've gone through 3/4 of a gallon of the stuff and I'm still experimenting with it; and I spent a lot of time last summer on various HVLP sites to get a good handle on how to use these things. By the time I did the flap components last fall, they were better. The problem seemed to be that the product wasn't atomizing enough. So I turned down the fluid just a bit and turned up the pressure (I think that's what I did). If you patrol the net for HVLP spray techniques, you'll probably find a step-by-step to how to set the gun properly. Because the instructions from Craftsman (maker of the HVLP gun) were crappy. Also, I made the first pass a "fog coat," rather than try to, you know, paint the piece. So a little more patience another solution (something I'm not very good at. I should point out that I tried some of that water based primer (the name of which I can't remember), and I didn't like the way that went on either. So that's what sent me to "HVLP school." I figured it was the painter, not the paint. What I really go for with SW is a tint more than anything else. Bob Collins St. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Helming, L R & K L" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer Job looks like Crap...
Date: Feb 27, 2005
There are lots of good primers. Find one that is compatible with the top coat paint product you want to use. Then learn how to prep, mix and shoot it. One primer that works with PPG Concept is DP. DP can be thinned with their thinner product. Sprays on and covers better using some thinner. The only thing you might not like is it takes time to dry. But it is tough as just about anything. Requires the metal to be properly prepared before hand. For light colored top coats use DP48 as the number indicates the color. DP40 is an olive drab type color. There are others. Check at your local auto paint distributor. Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins(at)visi.com> Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Primer Job looks like Crap... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2005
From: Scott Farner <sfarner(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Lower Rudder Tip
I am working on the lower rudder tip and the part of the tip forward of the control horn doesn't sit flat against the spar. There aren't any attach points noted in the plans here and I was wondering if anyone else had this problem and what was the remedy. Thanks, -- Scott www.scottfarner.com RV-7 Waiting for Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 02/28/05
Date: Mar 01, 2005
From: "Jim Lundell" <Jlundell(at)jlphoto.com>
Joe Sorry to hear that. Now you've got another couple of daily tasks. But I think you will see a definite improvement in his behavior after he's had the shots for awhile. JimL wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete RV7-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2005-02-28.html > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2005-02-28.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > RV7-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Mon 02/28/05: 1 > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > 1. 08:13 PM - Lower Rudder Tip (Scott Farner) > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Scott Farner <sfarner(at)gmail.com> > Subject: RV7-List: Lower Rudder Tip > > > I am working on the lower rudder tip and the part of the tip forward > of the control horn doesn't sit flat against the spar. There aren't > any attach points noted in the plans here and I was wondering if > anyone else had this problem and what was the remedy. > > Thanks, > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: clearance hole in firewall for nose gear leg bolt (RV-7A)
Date: Mar 12, 2005
Fellow RV-7A builders, What is the proper size hole to cut in the firewall to gain access to the nose gear leg bolt. There is a inconsistency in the plans. On the firewall construction drawing it calls out 3/4" diameter hole and on the nose gear installation drawing (where the bolt is actually called out) it calls out a 1" diameter hole. I don't want to put in a larger hole if it is not required. Paul (RV-7A fuselage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2005
From: Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: clearance hole in firewall for nose gear leg bolt (RV-7A)
Merems wrote: > >Fellow RV-7A builders, > >What is the proper size hole to cut in the firewall to gain access to the nose gear leg bolt. There is a inconsistency in the plans. On the firewall construction drawing it calls out 3/4" diameter hole and on the nose gear installation drawing (where the bolt is actually called out) it calls out a 1" diameter hole. > >I don't want to put in a larger hole if it is not required. > >Paul (RV-7A fuselage) > > > > Make the hole slightly larger than the socket needed to fit the bolt Jim Streit rv90073 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: clearance hole in firewall for nose gear leg bolt (RV-7A)
Date: Mar 13, 2005
I did not put in a hole in the firewall at all. There was enough clearance. Chuck Imken -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Merems Subject: RV7-List: clearance hole in firewall for nose gear leg bolt (RV-7A) Fellow RV-7A builders, What is the proper size hole to cut in the firewall to gain access to the nose gear leg bolt. There is a inconsistency in the plans. On the firewall construction drawing it calls out 3/4" diameter hole and on the nose gear installation drawing (where the bolt is actually called out) it calls out a 1" diameter hole. I don't want to put in a larger hole if it is not required. Paul (RV-7A fuselage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LARRY RUSH" <K9HXT(at)msn.com>
Subject: Nav-Aid Servo Installation
Date: Mar 15, 2005
Does anyone know where I can get some info on installing a Nav-Aid servo in the right wing. It looks like it will be a pretty tight installation beside the bellcrank. Skins are riveted on and yes I should have done it before I did that. Drawings or pics please???? Larry, RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles For Sale
Date: Mar 18, 2005
I have high quality "Van's Aircraft - Total Performance" belt buckles for sale. I have also recently updated my site with better pictures, and customer comments. Please check them out at: http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ Thank you, Glenn Brasch, Tucson RV-9A fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2005
From: John Raeburn <raeburn(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Paint overspray removal
I recently spray painted part of my aircraft with an oil based paint. After I removed the masking, I noticed that there was some paint overspray on one of the Lexan windows. Does anyone know how to remove an oil based paint from Lexan? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "red" <redswing(at)mcn.org>
Subject: Re: Paint overspray removal
Date: Apr 03, 2005
If your Lexan is coated (like Percy's), it is safe to use xylene, which may remove the fresh paint. If it is not coated, the xylene may still be ok but I don't know. You could try it on a scrap first maybe? Red ----- Original Message ----- From: John Raeburn To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal I recently spray painted part of my aircraft with an oil based paint. After I removed the masking, I noticed that there was some paint overspray on one of the Lexan windows. Does anyone know how to remove an oil based paint from Lexan? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2005
From: "WILLIAM KELLY" <v1rotate(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Paint overspray removal
> I recently spray painted part of my aircraft with an oil based paint. > After I removed the masking, I noticed that there was some paint > overspray on one of the Lexan windows. > Does anyone know how to remove an oil based paint from Lexan? Hi, I've been a silent reader of this site for some time. I've heard from the Grumman-Gang list that automotive shops use some sort of a clay that when rubbed on the overspray area will remove the overspray. You might try an auto supply or local auto paint shop to learn more. Bill Kelly Someday (maybe) builder of RV-7A Grumman AA1C 39065 Lancaster, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Paint overspray removal
Date: Apr 04, 2005
Regarding the paint overspray on canopy: I had some of this. Mine was light in my opinion. It was easily seen through but it was there. I soaked a cloth in kerosene and laid that on the area for a few hours and then used my finger nail and a plastic scraper and was able to carefully and gentlely remove all of it without damage to the canopy. I had another area on my canopy that I purposely lightly sanded and thoroughly painted. Later I needed to remove that paint. I used the sanding, and polishing system sold by ACS. It was a lot of work but it did the job. I can see a bit of distortion in looking through the glass now that it is all done. {Friends are like angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly....unknown} Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up ----- Original Message ----- From: "WILLIAM KELLY" <v1rotate(at)verizon.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal > > >> I recently spray painted part of my aircraft with an oil based paint. >> After I removed the masking, I noticed that there was some paint >> overspray on one of the Lexan windows. >> Does anyone know how to remove an oil based paint from Lexan? > > Hi, > > I've been a silent reader of this site for some time. I've heard from the > Grumman-Gang list that automotive shops use some sort of a clay that when > rubbed on the overspray area will remove the overspray. You might try an > auto supply or local auto paint shop to learn more. > > Bill Kelly > Someday (maybe) builder of RV-7A > Grumman AA1C 39065 > Lancaster, CA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TimUK(at)AOL.com
Date: Apr 04, 2005
Subject: Re: Paint overspray removal
You could try methanol. TEST FIRST. You can cloud up polycarbonite easily. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Paint overspray removal
Date: Apr 04, 2005
From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com>
I would think Acetone would work. I use it to clean my eye glasses. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TimUK(at)AOL.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal You could try methanol. TEST FIRST. You can cloud up polycarbonite easily. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Near" <bnjn(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Paint overspray removal
Date: Apr 04, 2005
I was reading recently in an aviation magazine. I can't remember which one but I think it was Kitplanes. The three solutions they said not to use were: Acetone, Lacquer Thinner and window cleaner (which has ammonia in it). Bill Near ----- Original Message ----- From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal > > I would think Acetone would work. I use it to clean my eye glasses. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TimUK(at)AOL.com > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal > > > You could try methanol. TEST FIRST. You can cloud up polycarbonite > easily. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Paint overspray removal
Date: Apr 05, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Morning all, I see there is a choice between a 72 and 74" BA Hartzell prop available for the 180HP motor. Anyone have any experience with the larger prop for performance/economy on the 7? Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming Subject: Re: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal --> Regarding the paint overspray on canopy: I had some of this. Mine was light in my opinion. It was easily seen through but it was there. I soaked a cloth in kerosene and laid that on the area for a few hours and then used my finger nail and a plastic scraper and was able to carefully and gentlely remove all of it without damage to the canopy. I had another area on my canopy that I purposely lightly sanded and thoroughly painted. Later I needed to remove that paint. I used the sanding, and polishing system sold by ACS. It was a lot of work but it did the job. I can see a bit of distortion in looking through the glass now that it is all done. {Friends are like angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly....unknown} Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up ----- Original Message ----- From: "WILLIAM KELLY" <v1rotate(at)verizon.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal > > >> I recently spray painted part of my aircraft with an oil based paint. >> After I removed the masking, I noticed that there was some paint >> overspray on one of the Lexan windows. >> Does anyone know how to remove an oil based paint from Lexan? > > Hi, > > I've been a silent reader of this site for some time. I've heard from the > Grumman-Gang list that automotive shops use some sort of a clay that when > rubbed on the overspray area will remove the overspray. You might try an > auto supply or local auto paint shop to learn more. > > Bill Kelly > Someday (maybe) builder of RV-7A > Grumman AA1C 39065 > Lancaster, CA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Paint overspray removal
The 74" is too long and you will be picking up too many stones etc. Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >Morning all, > >I see there is a choice between a 72 and 74" BA Hartzell prop available >for the 180HP motor. > >Anyone have any experience with the larger prop for performance/economy >on the 7? > >Thanks > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >LarryRobertHelming >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal > >--> > >Regarding the paint overspray on canopy: > >I had some of this. Mine was light in my opinion. It was easily seen >through but it was there. I soaked a cloth in kerosene and laid that on >the area for a few hours and then used my finger nail and a plastic >scraper and was able to carefully and gentlely remove all of it without >damage to the canopy. I had another area on my canopy that I purposely >lightly sanded and thoroughly painted. Later I needed to remove that >paint. I used the sanding, and polishing system sold by ACS. It was a >lot of work but it did the job. I can see a bit of distortion in >looking through the glass now that it is all done. > >{Friends are like angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have >trouble remembering how to fly....unknown} > >Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "WILLIAM KELLY" <v1rotate(at)verizon.net> >To: >Subject: Re: RV7-List: Paint overspray removal > > > > >> >> >> >> >>>I recently spray painted part of my aircraft with an oil based paint. >>>After I removed the masking, I noticed that there was some paint >>>overspray on one of the Lexan windows. >>>Does anyone know how to remove an oil based paint from Lexan? >>> >>> >>Hi, >> >>I've been a silent reader of this site for some time. I've heard from >> >> >the > > >>Grumman-Gang list that automotive shops use some sort of a clay that >> >> >when > > >>rubbed on the overspray area will remove the overspray. You might try >> >> >an > > >>auto supply or local auto paint shop to learn more. >> >>Bill Kelly >>Someday (maybe) builder of RV-7A >>Grumman AA1C 39065 >>Lancaster, CA >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel Storer" <dstorer(at)okwifi.com>
Subject: Engine question
Date: Apr 07, 2005
Has anyone tried putting an injected CS IO360 C1D6 or C1C in a RV7A? I remember something about interference with the nose gear or firewall. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade...
Dear Listers, I will be upgrading the Matronics Email Server this weekend. This includes some hardware improvements - more memory, faster, more capable processors - as well as a complete operating system upgrade from scratch. I hope to have both the old system and the new system running at the same time to minimize the actual impact of the upgrade. Hopefully there will be little actual downtime during the transition, but a few posts may get lost in the shuffle. If you don't see your post show up on the List in the normal amount of time (plus a little bit), then please just try posting it again. Upgrading the Matronics Email Server operating system (from Redhat Linux 7.2 to Redhat Linux WS 4) is a sizeable undertaking and requires a great deal of work to port all of the utilities, programs, and scripts over to the new system. As I've already mentioned, both the old and new systems will be on line at the same time, so interruption should be held to an absolute minimal. You might see a couple of odd test messages during the cut-over or other odd messages; please just ignore them. I have setup a new System Status Web Page that I will use to update List Members on the current status of the email and web systems. Please refer to it as often as you like: http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/ Thank you for your continued support of the List Services at Matronics! Its your yearly Contributions that make these major upgrades possible! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
,
Subject: Best location to mount strobe power supply in RV-7/9
Date: Apr 16, 2005
Fellow RV builders, I am trying to determine the best location to mount my strobe power supply (central supply) in my RV-7A. Any thoughts would be helpful. Pros and Cons. Thanks, Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Best location to mount strobe power supply in RV-7/9
Date: Apr 16, 2005
Paul, Mine is going right behind the baggage bulkhead. Dan C put his in the same place. As you are building an A you should have no weight and balance issues regardless of which engine prop combo you choose. I am using a cs Hartzell with the 200 hp lycoming. Don Fuse. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Merems rv7-list(at)matronics.com; RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV7-List: Best location to mount strobe power supply in RV-7/9 Fellow RV builders, I am trying to determine the best location to mount my strobe power supply (central supply) in my RV-7A. Any thoughts would be helpful. Pros and Cons. Thanks, Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dual Throttle Control in an RV-7/9
Date: Apr 17, 2005
Fellow RV-builders, I really want a left hand throttle control in my RV, but also recognize the advantages of having a center throttle, mixture, prop control etc. So to solve this conflict I am designing a dual throttle control in my RV-7A. I would like to know if any of you fellow builders might be interested in this dual approach. Please contact me at pmerems(at)experimentalaero.com. Paul (RV-4/RV-7A fuse) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade Complete!
Dear Listers, The upgrade of the Matronics Email Server can be considered complete at this time. All known issues related to the upgrade process have been resolved and email services are running normal. The Nightly Digest processing has not yet been tested and will wait for tonight's update. If you encounter any odd behavior with respect to the Matronics Email Server over the next few days, please contact me via email at dralle(at)matronics.com or if that fails try dralle(at)speakeasy.net. Thanks to everyone for being patient through this arduous process of a major system upgrade! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator At 12:37 PM 4/16/2005 Saturday, Matt Dralle wrote: >Dear Listers, > >I will be upgrading the Matronics Email Server this weekend. This >includes some hardware improvements - more memory, faster, more capable >processors - as well as a complete operating system upgrade from >scratch. I hope to have both the old system and the new system running at >the same time to minimize the actual impact of the upgrade. > >Hopefully there will be little actual downtime during the transition, but >a few posts may get lost in the shuffle. If you don't see your post show >up on the List in the normal amount of time (plus a little bit), then >please just try posting it again. > >Upgrading the Matronics Email Server operating system (from Redhat Linux >7.2 to Redhat Linux WS 4) is a sizeable undertaking and requires a great >deal of work to port all of the utilities, programs, and scripts over to >the new system. As I've already mentioned, both the old and new systems >will be on line at the same time, so interruption should be held to an >absolute minimal. You might see a couple of odd test messages during the >cut-over or other odd messages; please just ignore them. > >I have setup a new System Status Web Page that I will use to update List >Members on the current status of the email and web systems. Please refer >to it as often as you like: > > http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/ > > >Thank you for your continued support of the List Services at >Matronics! Its your yearly Contributions that make these major upgrades >possible! > >Best regards, > >Matt Dralle >Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ed clegg" <edwclg(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: heated seats
Date: Apr 20, 2005
Anyone out there install heated seats in there rv 8. I am looking for supplier and recommendations. Thanks, Ed Clegg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: heated seats
Date: Apr 20, 2005
There was an RV8 at SnF (quite colorful and nicely done) that had heated seats. Don't remember the N number or owner name. Someone else might remember. James | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- | server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ed clegg | Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:34 AM | To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: RV7-List: heated seats | | | Anyone out there install heated seats in there rv 8. I am looking for | supplier and recommendations. | Thanks, Ed Clegg | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: getting started`
Date: Apr 20, 2005
Hello rv7 list, I just filled out your membership application, aka rv7 empennage order form. My form is still enroute to Oregon with the Van's crew taking their sweet time flying back from Sun-n-Fun. Who can blame them? The folks at Cleveland tools were quick to ship my first batch of tools, so my shop now has some strange new tools in it. Waiting on metal... No questions yet. Visit me on the web if you like. http://donka.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=rv7log Don Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Dan Checkoway's Panel in June Kitplanes Magazine
Date: Apr 30, 2005
Hello, all! I just got my June issue of Kitplanes Magazine, and lo and behold, there is Dan Checkoway's RV-7 panel in former RV-8'er Ken Balch's panel article! Well done! best, Cory ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2005
Subject: [ Mike Holland ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Mike Holland Lists: RV-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV9-List,RV10-List Subject: Quickbuild Fuel Pickup Issue http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/hollandm@pacbell.net.05.02.2005/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENAJRICK(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2005
Subject: Re: Trailing edge silicone
OK I'm new to this game (the list) and here goes with my first ever post. My name is Rick Rammos, from Miami, FL, and I'm in the process of slowly building an RV-7A. I'm approaching completion on the tail and have made what I think is a minor mistake, but I'm not sure. Before closing the right elevator the instructions say to but a dab if Permatex or similar product between the stiffeners at the trailing edge. oops. Of course I went out and bought the stuff but sealed up the elevator without it. I can't imagine drilling out all those rivets for this and thought of drilling the lower rivets at the back stiffener, injecting some silicone and then closing with a blind rivet. Is this overkill? Should I just forget it? At this early stage I hate to start taking short cuts but I do want to be realistic if this project is going to progress. So what of it guys, any comments? Rick R RV-7A Miami ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing edge silicone
ENAJRICK(at)aol.com wrote: > >OK I'm new to this game (the list) and here goes with my first ever post. My >name is Rick Rammos, from Miami, FL, and I'm in the process of slowly >building an RV-7A. I'm approaching completion on the tail and have made what I think >is a minor mistake, but I'm not sure. Before closing the right elevator the >instructions say to but a dab if Permatex or similar product between the >stiffeners at the trailing edge. oops. Of course I went out and bought the stuff >but sealed up the elevator without it. I can't imagine drilling out all those >rivets for this and thought of drilling the lower rivets at the back >stiffener, injecting some silicone and then closing with a blind rivet. Is this >overkill? Should I just forget it? At this early stage I hate to start taking >short cuts but I do want to be realistic if this project is going to progress. So >what of it guys, any comments? > >Rick R >RV-7A >Miami > I closed one of mine before remembering the sealant, too. It's more trouble, but you can use small diameter tubing to inject the sealant. The semi-rigid translucent stuff from the hardware store (tygon?) comes in a size that will just slide up the trailing edge. Force a little into the end, thread it in to the right distance & force the sealant out slowly with low pressure air. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: F-705G - Tip up canopy only ... ?
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: May 12, 2005
I know these angles are required for the tip-up canopy and I'm fairly sure should be ommited completely for the slider canopy, but wanted to check with others ... can anyone confirm ? __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ramthaxton(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: F-705G - Tip up canopy only ... ?
Date: May 13, 2005
One of the guys at Vans told me to just leave them in since I had already installed them. What a pain to remove them later when it became apparent that they caused interference with the bolts for the rear canopy hold down blocks. Bob Thaxton RV-7 N711RT -------------- Original message -------------- > > > I know these angles are required for the tip-up canopy and I'm > fairly sure should be ommited completely for the slider canopy, > but wanted to check with others ... can anyone confirm ? > > __g__ >Van========================================================== > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com > Tel: 415 203 9177 > > > > > > One of the guys at Vans told me to just leave them in since I had already installed them. What a pain to remove them later when it became apparent that they caused interference with the bolts for the rear canopy hold down blocks. Bob Thaxton RV-7 N711RT -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby I know these angles are required for the tip-up canopy and I'm fairly sure should be ommited completely for the slider canopy, but wanted to check with others ... can anyone confirm ? __g__ Van========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: F-705G - Tip up canopy only ... ?
Date: May 12, 2005
Oh great. I got a quickbuild and they're still in my fuselage. I've painted now as well. Mark Taylor www.4sierratango.com >From: ramthaxton(at)comcast.net >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV7-List: F-705G - Tip up canopy only ... ? >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 01:27:22 +0000 > > >One of the guys at Vans told me to just leave them in since I had already >installed them. What a pain to remove them later when it became apparent >that they caused interference with the bolts for the rear canopy hold down >blocks. >Bob Thaxton RV-7 N711RT > >-------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > > > I know these angles are required for the tip-up canopy and I'm > > fairly sure should be ommited completely for the slider canopy, > > but wanted to check with others ... can anyone confirm ? > > > > __g__ > >Van========================================================== > > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com > > Tel: 415 203 9177 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >One of the guys at Vans told me to just leave them in since I had already >installed them. What a pain to remove them later when it became apparent >that they caused interference with the bolts for the rear canopy hold down >blocks. >Bob Thaxton RV-7 N711RT > >-------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > I know these angles are required for the tip-up canopy and I'm > fairly sure should be ommited completely for the slider canopy, > but wanted to check with others ... can anyone confirm ? > > __g__ >Van========================================================== > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com > Tel: 415 203 9177 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Autofuel
Date: May 13, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hi All, According to GAMI the IO360 can run premium autofuel and they recommend the following. Based presumably on the testing they have done with their new PRISM ignition system that adjusts the spark timing and measures the crank angle where the max cylinder pressure occurs....Apparently this point is 16 deg ATDC. For the first time we are on the cusp of having the timing being adjusted based on what the engine is actually doing...its a bit like a highly advanced knoock sensor found on auto engines. By this time you should be saying WOW! The great thing is you can almost throw any fuel in it you want (as long as it does not pre-ignite)...If it detontates the Prism will presumably retard the ignition until it stops. But I digress...They say to keep CHT's down to 375F or less. And then run at 100F ROP or 25 to 50 LOP. So there you have it...They believe these are conservative numbers. Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2005
From: John Raeburn <raeburn(at)direcway.com>
Subject: RV-7A or RV-9A
I'm looking to buy either an RV-7A or a RV-9A, does anyone know of any that are for sale or will be for sale in the next 24 months? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2005
From: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus(at)gds.co.za>
Subject: Re: Autofuel
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" Have you forgotten about vapour-lock? Cliff Lotter do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Autofuel > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Hi All, > > According to GAMI the IO360 can run premium autofuel and they recommend > the following. > > Based presumably on the testing they have done with their new PRISM > ignition system that adjusts the spark timing and measures the crank > angle where the max cylinder pressure occurs....Apparently this point is > 16 deg ATDC. > > For the first time we are on the cusp of having the timing being > adjusted based on what the engine is actually doing...its a bit like a > highly advanced knoock sensor found on auto engines. > > By this time you should be saying WOW! > > The great thing is you can almost throw any fuel in it you want (as long > as it does not pre-ignite)...If it detontates the Prism will presumably > retard the ignition until it stops. > > But I digress...They say to keep CHT's down to 375F or less. And then > run at 100F ROP or 25 to 50 LOP. > > So there you have it...They believe these are conservative numbers. > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2005
Subject: Autofuel
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Nope...And I am not opening all this up again. But with a PROPERLY designed fuel system the only place vapour will be an issue will be in the injector lines....This should be be more in the "annoyance" level rather than the life threatening Vapour lock that can happen when the fuel pump is not in the correct place...Hydraulically speaking. Note there are many auto conversions flying around without VL issues...But look where there fuel pumps are...Very different to the standard Lycoming setup...I'm simply replicating this on a Lycoming. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Lotter Subject: Re: RV7-List: Autofuel --> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" Have you forgotten about vapour-lock? Cliff Lotter do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Autofuel > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Hi All, > > According to GAMI the IO360 can run premium autofuel and they > recommend the following. > > Based presumably on the testing they have done with their new PRISM > ignition system that adjusts the spark timing and measures the crank > angle where the max cylinder pressure occurs....Apparently this point > is > 16 deg ATDC. > > For the first time we are on the cusp of having the timing being > adjusted based on what the engine is actually doing...its a bit like a > highly advanced knoock sensor found on auto engines. > > By this time you should be saying WOW! > > The great thing is you can almost throw any fuel in it you want (as > long as it does not pre-ignite)...If it detontates the Prism will > presumably retard the ignition until it stops. > > But I digress...They say to keep CHT's down to 375F or less. And then > run at 100F ROP or 25 to 50 LOP. > > So there you have it...They believe these are conservative numbers. > > Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2005
From: Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Corner rib center fuselage question
--> RV7-List message posted by: Bob Collins I 've stared at the plans and viewed the Web sites and I'm not convinced I'm seeing things right on trimming the corner rib (I think it's F-723) forward part where it mates with the 705 bulkhead. On the drawings, it appears to show that both forward flanges are trimmed maybe 3/4 of an inch or so and tapered aft. This would appear to include the little joggle section of the outboard flange. However the fact there's a joggle there tells me that it's there for a reason and that reason is not to cut it off. However, in fitting the rib to be flush with the outboard edge of the bottom skin, that flange -- whether it gets tucked inside the 705L flange or put to the outside of that 705L flange (which I assume it doesn't because that would put a nice bump in the skin), pushes the rib inboard from the corner edge of the bottom skin slightly. You couldn't get it flush. So the instruction say get it flush with the botom skin, best done if that front of the flange of the corner rib is gone. However I've seen at least one Web site in which it was the inboard side of the flange that got cut away (and not tapered, either) while the outboard side (with the joggle) stayed as presented. And THAT confuses me too, because that flange doesn't appear to be interfering with anything. As many have noted, the plans are very vague here, and I'm sitting here with a drill and snips ready to go. so hurry up and put me on the right track ! (g) Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2005
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Corner rib center fuselage question
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Ok, let me answer my own question here for purposes of the archives. Maybe it'll help someone else. After looking at the plans again and after fitting the piece (the corner rib), it is clear that what the plans are showing is correct. BOTH the web of the corner rib (at least the front portion and I suspect the aft portion too) and the inside flange of the corner rib have to get cut off. This is counter to some of the stuff I read on a few builders sites. Here's why: It's obvious when you fit the piece that this is done for two reasons. First, if you don't cut the front portion of the flange off, you can't align the edge of the corner rib to be properly flush with the edge on the bottom center section skin. What's more, if you leave the flange on, you cannot properly fit the F-723A piece onto the Web of the corner rib. Now the web portion gets cut off because if you don't, it will go up and over the flange on the bulkhead, leaving a small gap between the skin and the bottom of the corner rib. And if you look at the other ribs next to it, you can see how they've addressed that. Then, using the F23A allows a flush mating with the corner rib and the bulkhead here, allowing the skin to rest evenly across the bulkhead and the corner rib. Many have noted -- correctly -- that the plans aren't very clear in this regard. First, they show up and forward, but they don't show inboard and outboard. Secondly, a top view of this piece would've eliminated any confusion. But maybe nobody else was confused in the first place. (g) >I 've stared at the plans and viewed the Web sites >and I'm not convinced I'm seeing things right on >trimming the corner rib (I think it's F-723) forward >part where it mates with the 705 bulkhead. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: ping
Date: May 22, 2005
Ping to all active RV projects in the Atlanta area. If you're interested in networking locally, please reply. Don Hall N517DG RV7 - empennage http://donka.net/rv7project.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: wire gauge drill bits
Date: May 22, 2005
I bought a "rv empennage tool kit", which supposedly has all you *need* to build the tail. (Like all you need to build a house is a hammer and saw.) I was pretty disappointed with the kit when I immediately ran into instructions calling for #12 and #19 drill bits. Not in the kit, and apparently not at your average hardware store. I'm curious whether anyone is knows if any brick and mortar hardware stores sell drill bits in wire gauge sizes. I was surprised that Home Depot didn't stock such bits. I ended up ordering online from Cummins. I've already ordered this: http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,621.html $49.99 USD / Each 115pc High Speed Steel Titanium Coated Drill Bit Set Power Tools / Drills / Drill Bits & Accessories High speed titanium coated drill bits 60 pc. wire guage bits numbered 1 to 60 26 pc. lettered bits (A-Z) 29 pc. fractional bits 1/16" to 1/2" in 1/64" increments One metal index box Interestingly, Sears had this http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&p id=00967115000 $219.99 Craftsman 115 pc. Drill Bit Set, High Speed Steel, Black Oxide Twist Sears item #00967115000 Mfr. model #67115 These high speed steel bits are hardened, heat-treated and tempered for long-lasting strength. Precision-ground process ensures accurate geometry and hole size, and fast material removal. Learn more ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: wire gauge drill bits
Date: May 22, 2005
$22.99 from Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=528 I personally don't have a full wire gauge set. I just buy individual bits from Brown or whatever. They're relatively cheap. #40, #30, #27, #19, #12, #11, #10, and 1/4" are just about all you're gonna need. Then your run of the mill 1/8", and 3/32" will be useful for undersize drilling stuff. #40 for 3/32" rivet #30 for 1/8" rivet #27 for 5/32" rivets or #6 screws #19 for #8 screws #12-10 for #10 or 3/16" fasteners (#12 for tight fit, #10 for clearance fit) 1/4" for 1/4" You may also want to snag a chucking reamer in 1/4" for stuff like bellcrank and control column bushings, and when you get around to working on the baffles, 13/64" and 17/64" reamers will be helpful for slightly oversizing the 3/16" and 1/4" holes to reduce stress (as per Van's recommendation). )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> Subject: RV7-List: wire gauge drill bits > > I bought a "rv empennage tool kit", which supposedly has all you *need* to > build the tail. (Like all you need to build a house is a hammer and saw.) > I was pretty disappointed with the kit when I immediately ran into > instructions calling for #12 and #19 drill bits. Not in the kit, and > apparently not at your average hardware store. > > I'm curious whether anyone is knows if any brick and mortar hardware stores > sell drill bits in wire gauge sizes. I was surprised that Home Depot didn't > stock such bits. I ended up ordering online from Cummins. > > I've already ordered this: > http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,621.html > $49.99 USD / Each > 115pc High Speed Steel Titanium Coated Drill Bit Set > Power Tools / Drills / Drill Bits & Accessories > High speed titanium coated drill bits > 60 pc. wire guage bits numbered 1 to 60 > 26 pc. lettered bits (A-Z) > 29 pc. fractional bits 1/16" to 1/2" in 1/64" increments > One metal index box > > Interestingly, Sears had this > http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&p > id=00967115000 > $219.99 > Craftsman 115 pc. Drill Bit Set, High Speed Steel, Black Oxide Twist > Sears item #00967115000 Mfr. model #67115 > These high speed steel bits are hardened, heat-treated and tempered for > long-lasting strength. Precision-ground process ensures accurate geometry > and hole size, and fast material removal. Learn more > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: wire gauge drill bits
http://www.kbctools.com I buy tools and perishables (drills and mills) from them. Wholesaler that deals to the public. --- Don Hall wrote: > > > I bought a "rv empennage tool kit", which supposedly > has all you *need* to > build the tail. (Like all you need to build a house > is a hammer and saw.) > I was pretty disappointed with the kit when I > immediately ran into > instructions calling for #12 and #19 drill bits. > Not in the kit, and > apparently not at your average hardware store. > > I'm curious whether anyone is knows if any brick and > mortar hardware stores > sell drill bits in wire gauge sizes. I was > surprised that Home Depot didn't > stock such bits. I ended up ordering online from > Cummins. > > I've already ordered this: > http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,621.html > $49.99 USD / Each > 115pc High Speed Steel Titanium Coated Drill Bit Set > Power Tools / Drills / Drill Bits & Accessories > High speed titanium coated drill bits > 60 pc. wire guage bits numbered 1 to 60 > 26 pc. lettered bits (A-Z) > 29 pc. fractional bits 1/16" to 1/2" in 1/64" > increments > One metal index box > > Interestingly, Sears had this > http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&p > id=00967115000 > $219.99 > Craftsman 115 pc. Drill Bit Set, High Speed Steel, > Black Oxide Twist > Sears item #00967115000 Mfr. model #67115 > These high speed steel bits are hardened, > heat-treated and tempered for > long-lasting strength. Precision-ground process > ensures accurate geometry > and hole size, and fast material removal. Learn more > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2005
Subject: Re: ping
From: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter(at)jpainter.org>
Hey Don: Where are you located? I live in Suwanee, fly out of LZU. I'm building a -7A and am now into the aft fuselage. Are you invovled in an EAA chapter? I'm chairman of the Board of Directors for 690 at LZU. We have 6 RV's in our 'Sport Aviation Complex' and many more on the way. Let's see...I'm probably forgetting some...but we have my -7A, a -7, two -8's and two -9's currently under construction. Our chapter is a great way to meet RV'ers. See my .sig for my website. Good luck on your project. - Jamie > Ping to all active RV projects in the Atlanta area. If you're interested in > networking locally, please reply. > > Don Hall > N517DG > RV7 - empennage > http://donka.net/rv7project.html -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A fuselage N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: wire gauge drill bits
Date: May 23, 2005
Find a hardware store that serves contractors (especially electrical) and construction folks and they will have the drill bits. > I'm curious whether anyone is knows if any brick and mortar hardware stores > sell drill bits in wire gauge sizes. I was surprised that Home Depot didn't > stock such bits. I ended up ordering online from Cummins. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Qbuilder woes
Date: May 23, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Morning all, A note of caution for you all...in other words don't do what I did! The QB kit I find lulls you into a false sense of security in that one tends to ASSUME all the holes are in the right place...When it came to the engine mount I found the pilot holes they conveniently drill in the 4 corners firewall are not THAT convenient. I can feel you cringing as I write this...YUP I opened them up to size without having the engine mount in place...Even though the instructions tell you the reason the holes are undersized is to allow for error in hole placement. It turned out the top holes were perfect (thankfully) and had I just drilled these out to size, hung the mount and drilled the 4 bottom holes thru the engine mount life would have been good. But no,I just blindly opened them all up to size without the mount in place...Arrrgh! I then had to drill out the rivets holding the bottom corner weldments and the angle that runs vertically btween the top and bottom weldments in order to get the bottom ones out. As the weldments are match drilled to the airframe it looked just as easy to stip the paint off, weld a 1/8th thick 4130 plate over the 3/8ths holes and repaint....Plus it saved the cost and waiting for the new parts. Which is what I did and I will rivet the weldments back in the fuse this evening....And then drill the lower mount holes like I should have done in the first place! In the end about 4 hours work total that had absolutly no need to be done if I had been more careful...The joke of it was I would NEVER have done this on my previous airplane cus absolutly nothing was pre-drilled. Maybe I now only saved 996 hours vs building a slow build kit...:) Live and learn I hope! Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: wire gauge drill bits
Date: May 23, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
I bought a bunch of #30 and #40bits from the one of the large internet dealers (work out to about a buck per bit with shipping) and the Harbor Freight 115 pc set for all the other sizes. Incidently...Am I the only one that went thru about 4 bits to drill the holes in the axles for the cotter pins? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Subject: RE: RV7-List: wire gauge drill bits Find a hardware store that serves contractors (especially electrical) and construction folks and they will have the drill bits. > I'm curious whether anyone is knows if any brick and mortar hardware stores > sell drill bits in wire gauge sizes. I was surprised that Home Depot didn't > stock such bits. I ended up ordering online from Cummins. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2005
From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: wire gauge drill bits
Bob Collins wrote: > >Find a hardware store that serves contractors (especially electrical) and >construction folks and they will have the drill bits. > > > One last point on drill sizes - the plans call-out for a .311 drill bit to match drill the gear legs to the gear mount box on my RV7A did not show up on any of my conversion charts and that size turned out to be a custom Metric drill bit size 7.9MM. Cost me $8 Canadian from industrial supply place to make those holes 1.5 thousands smaller than the optional 5/16 size. Cheers, George in Langley BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2005
From: TylerB <tylerii(at)infoave.net>
Subject: Re: wire gauge drill bits
I read with great interest this thread and felt that a reply would now be necessary. I just don't understand the difference between a drilled hole that is drilled with the .311 dia bit vs the hole drilled with a .3125 (5/16) bit when the standard tolerance for a drilled hole made using a standard twist drill bit is + or - .005. this is the tolerance listed for drilled holes in aluminum in both the Reference Manual for Mechanical Engineers, and the ASTM Standards Manual Tyler Bryant N442TJ GMC wrote: > >Bob Collins wrote: > > > >> >>Find a hardware store that serves contractors (especially electrical) and >>construction folks and they will have the drill bits. >> >> >> >> >> >One last point on drill sizes - the plans call-out for a .311 drill bit >to match drill the gear legs to the gear mount box on my RV7A did not >show up on any of my conversion charts and that size turned out to be a >custom Metric drill bit size 7.9MM. Cost me $8 Canadian from industrial >supply place to make those holes 1.5 thousands smaller than the optional >5/16 size. > >Cheers, >George in Langley BC > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Drills vs reamers
Date: May 23, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
That's easy...When I went to drill one of my weldments with a drill bit it was jumping around a bit and did not exactly give the most pretty hole I have ever seen....Kinda hard to hold everything in line with a relatively large drill bit and the drill wants to remove too much metal too quickly I finished the hole off with 3120 reamer and it was a much better finish...I would have bought a new weldment except I had a perfect hole on one side and finally decided the not quite so good hole was not going to be a problem operationally. Reamers remove much less metal and the amount they remove depends on how hard you push on them....Actually I pull mine through the gear legs as it helps keep everything lined up I did have a fleeting thought about weling a plate over it and re-drilling...But as I said it will be OK...just not perfect. Bottom line, when the plans say "ream"...I borrow a reamer from work and make life a lot less stressful..:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB Subject: Re: RV7-List: wire gauge drill bits I read with great interest this thread and felt that a reply would now be necessary. I just don't understand the difference between a drilled hole that is drilled with the .311 dia bit vs the hole drilled with a .3125 (5/16) bit when the standard tolerance for a drilled hole made using a standard twist drill bit is + or - .005. this is the tolerance listed for drilled holes in aluminum in both the Reference Manual for Mechanical Engineers, and the ASTM Standards Manual Tyler Bryant N442TJ GMC wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Rotary engine Seminar May 27-29
1.30 UNDISC_RECIPS Valid-looking To "undisclosed-recipients" For those interested in rotary engine power for aircraft, there will be a rotary event here at Slobovia Outernational (MS71) just north of Jackson MS beginning Friday afternoon, May 27. If you are driving to Jackson a brochure & map of how to get here can be found on Tracy Crook's web site at http://www.rotaryaviation.com/new_page_3.htm. Flying info can be found at http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71. 'Scheduled to Appear,' either with presentations or to be available for Q&A are several folks who are already flying or manufacture & sell accessories for rotary conversions: Ed Anderson Tracy Crook Bill Eslick Bernie Kerr Ed Klepeis We've got plenty of space in the house and a couple of our neighbors have offered hangar apartments for additional lodging. Just throw a bedroll & towel (& tent if you if you prefer) in the car/plane & we will find a place for you to sleep. Spouses are welcome; it's looking like they may have more fun than us rotorheads. Possible activities include antiquing/sightseeing in a historic town near Slobovia. If you are thinking about coming, drop me a line at ceengland(at)bellsouth.net or call at 601-879-9596 so we can be sure no one goes hungry. :-) Tupper's having the time of her life getting the house & meals prepped, & I've got a clean hangar for the 1st time in almost a decade. Ya'll Come! Charlie & Tupper ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2005
Subject: FW: flop tube quick build
From: flutewitch <flutewitch(at)cox.net>
---------- From: Nancy C <ncormier(at)cox.net> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:08:52 -0600 Subject: flop tube quick build When installing the trap door in the aft rib of the left fuel tank Does the lightning hole in the rib also need to be plugged? It seems to me that if you were flying on a knife edge left wing down that the trap door would do no good if the other hole remained open. Also any recommendations on wing tip landing light, nav and strobe configuration would be a big help? Thanks Bill RV-7 Quick build Massachusetts ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2005
Subject: flop tuge Qbuild
From: flutewitch <flutewitch(at)cox.net>
When installing the trap door in the aft rib of the left fuel tank Does the lightning hole in the rib also need to be plugged? It seems to me that if you were flying on a knife edge left wing down that the trap door would do no good if the other hole remained open. Also any recommendations on wing tip landing light, nav and strobe configuration would be a big help? Thanks Bill RV-7 Quick build Massachusetts ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2005
From: "Frank Eldridge" <eldridge(at)legis.state.ga.us>
Subject: Re: Rotary engine Seminar May 27-29 1.30
UNDISC_RECIPS Valid-looking To "undisclosed-recipients" Please remove my email address from your list. I do not care to receive these emails. Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Frank Eldridge, Jr. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2005
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Removal from RV-List
Only you can remove yourself from the list. Please go to the Matronics webpage linked in the signature below and unsubscribe your email address manually. -Rob (not a list administrator, just someone trying to help) On 11:23:10 2005-05-25 "Frank Eldridge" wrote: > .ga.us> > > Please remove my email address from your list. I do not care to > receive these emails. > Thank you for your assistance in this matter. > > Frank Eldridge, Jr. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: wire gauge drill bits
Date: May 26, 2005
clamav-milter version 0.80j on hestia I bought one of those cheap crappy Chinese drill bit sets once. It's a big waste of time & money. Anything under $100 is Chinese and thus crap. Many of the larger drill bits are not even straight. The smaller ones have varying degrees of sharpness. If you're going to get a full drill bit set, get a US made one from MSC. You'll spend a couple hundred on a decent one, but you'll have something that's worth your money.. If you just want a few sizes for the plane, like 12 & 19, your best bet is get them from Avery. They have good US-made ones. The price of the Sears one tells me it might be US made, but be sure to check first - Sears tools are DEFINTELY not what they once were. brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Hall Subject: RV7-List: wire gauge drill bits I bought a "rv empennage tool kit", which supposedly has all you *need* to build the tail. (Like all you need to build a house is a hammer and saw.) I was pretty disappointed with the kit when I immediately ran into instructions calling for #12 and #19 drill bits. Not in the kit, and apparently not at your average hardware store. I'm curious whether anyone is knows if any brick and mortar hardware stores sell drill bits in wire gauge sizes. I was surprised that Home Depot didn't stock such bits. I ended up ordering online from Cummins. I've already ordered this: http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,621.html $49.99 USD / Each 115pc High Speed Steel Titanium Coated Drill Bit Set Power Tools / Drills / Drill Bits & Accessories High speed titanium coated drill bits 60 pc. wire guage bits numbered 1 to 60 26 pc. lettered bits (A-Z) 29 pc. fractional bits 1/16" to 1/2" in 1/64" increments One metal index box Interestingly, Sears had this http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&p id=00967115000 $219.99 Craftsman 115 pc. Drill Bit Set, High Speed Steel, Black Oxide Twist Sears item #00967115000 Mfr. model #67115 These high speed steel bits are hardened, heat-treated and tempered for long-lasting strength. Precision-ground process ensures accurate geometry and hole size, and fast material removal. Learn more -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: wire gauge drill bits
Date: May 26, 2005
clamav-milter version 0.80j on hestia I bought one of those, too, but then I realized it's better to drill smaller and use a reamer for the final exact size. MSC has reamers of every imaginable diameter, as well as super-fast delivery and excellent customer service. http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of GMC Subject: Re: RV7-List: wire gauge drill bits Bob Collins wrote: > >Find a hardware store that serves contractors (especially electrical) and >construction folks and they will have the drill bits. > > One last point on drill sizes - the plans call-out for a .311 drill bit to match drill the gear legs to the gear mount box on my RV7A did not show up on any of my conversion charts and that size turned out to be a custom Metric drill bit size 7.9MM. Cost me $8 Canadian from industrial supply place to make those holes 1.5 thousands smaller than the optional 5/16 size. Cheers, George in Langley BC -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: wire gauge drill bits
Date: May 26, 2005
clamav-milter version 0.80j on andromeda Did you use Harbor Freight drill bits to do it? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: wire gauge drill bits I bought a bunch of #30 and #40bits from the one of the large internet dealers (work out to about a buck per bit with shipping) and the Harbor Freight 115 pc set for all the other sizes. Incidently...Am I the only one that went thru about 4 bits to drill the holes in the axles for the cotter pins? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Subject: RE: RV7-List: wire gauge drill bits Find a hardware store that serves contractors (especially electrical) and construction folks and they will have the drill bits. > I'm curious whether anyone is knows if any brick and mortar hardware stores > sell drill bits in wire gauge sizes. I was surprised that Home Depot didn't > stock such bits. I ended up ordering online from Cummins. -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2005
From: Mark Grieve <mark(at)macomb.com>
Subject: Re: wire gauge drill bits
Titanium bits are gold colored and very pretty. They have a titanium nitrite (nitrate? something like that) coating that has nonstick properties. When you replace bits, don't bother buying the titanium bits for smaller diameters. Just buy standard bits and save money. The titanium coating reduces wear and I tend to break bits that small before wearing them out. Too bad we don't have Costco in the midwest, I would grab one of these sets. MG Herron, Al wrote: > >I picked up a set of numbered drill bits from Costco recently (this was in >Northern California) for about $40 US. Size ranged from very small (#60?) >up to about 1/2-inch in single-number increments, came in a nice metal case >with all the bits labeled both in index numbers and decimal equivalents. >Packaging claimed to be titanium bits, I was skeptical at that price but >they turned out to be very nice bits. The box alone was probably worth the >price. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Tomm <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: flop tuge Qbuild
Date: May 26, 2005
I seem to remember that the plans say to plug the hole BUT I also seem to remember someone recently saying that Van's had said not to block the hole because it will make filling the tank very slow. I don't know but if I were to do it again, I think I would block the hole and enlarge/make a new hole for air higher up the rib. When I did mine, I put in the flapper valve and left the hole alone. Now that I think about it, I think I made that decision based on discussions with someone at Vans. I'm not planning for aerobatics and didn't put the flop tube in, just the flappers because I like to slip on short final. Not flying yet so YMMV. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: flutewitch [SMTP:flutewitch(at)cox.net] Subject: RV7-List: flop tuge Qbuild When installing the trap door in the aft rib of the left fuel tank Does the lightning hole in the rib also need to be plugged? It seems to me that if you were flying on a knife edge left wing down that the trap door would do no good if the other hole remained open. Also any recommendations on wing tip landing light, nav and strobe configuration would be a big help? Thanks Bill RV-7 Quick build Massachusetts ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing remove/re-attach.
Date: May 31, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hi all,...I was just in an IM conversation about the above and thought I would re-post here in case it helps someone. I made what is (according to Van's) the classic mistake...I forgot to trim the rear spar wing attach points before I had all my remaining friends help me install the wings. This resulted in a 1 1/4" forward sweep...Now personally I think the Extra 300 looks kinda cool but RV's are not supposed to do that! So now all my friends are at work on my day off so how do I get the wings on and off by myself?...See what I did below... Frank RV-7A...It Looks like an airplane! Actually its pretty easy after you got past the out burst of emotion that you screwed up! Made a sling (old climbing rope) to hold the root of the wing..suspended from roof rafters old office chair on casters secured to tip of wing (no tip installed) Using a ratchet strap thru end rib holes round back of chair...Chair is really good cus it is height adjustable to line up the dihedral! undo bolts...pull...wing root drops into sling sweet Up onto sawhorses...One end at a time...:) Reverse to re-install easy! Actually after I done it twice I realised it really is very safe.....as long as the sling holds I made mine adjustable by using a ratchet strap in the middle of the rope...That way you can micro adjust the height for re-insertion ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Jun 02, 2005
Scratchin' my head once again ... The plans seem to indicate that the edge of the F-623 baggage corner rib abuts the edge of the lower flange of the F-705A bulkhead channel ... then the F-623A attach strip overlaps and connects the two. But when I lay out the parts like this the apex of the rib's 'triangle' doesn't line up with the similar apex along the edge of the F-976 skin and the aft end of the rib protrudes beyond the line joining the ends of the adjascent ribs. It just doesn't look right. Furthermore the forward end of the rib outboard flange is factory shaped such that it might overlap on the inside of the flange of the F-705D bulkhead verticle channel - a single rivet passing through the skin, the bulkhead flange and then the rib flange. (Confused yet ? I am.) The only solution I can see is to trim away part of the forward web and inboard flange of the rib - but I don't see any note of this in the plans or instructions. Anyone got any insight into this ? __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs
Date: Jun 03, 2005
Gerry: I just did the same part the other day and that joggle confused me because it suggests the flange fits inside the bulkhead flange. But if you do that, you can't get the edge of the corner rib to line up flush with the bottom skin, although I have seen some Web sites that have suggested cutting aroudn etc. Don't bother. Hack it off. The two flanges, the web,etc whee it meets the flange of the side of the bulkhead and the top. Front and back (I left the back intact until we mated the center and aft section on Thursday and then it was much easier to see why you have to do the same to the rear section. It takes awhile to see this on the plans. They really needed a zoomed-in overhead shot here. Disclaimer: I see you posted this to both the 9 and 7 groups. I'm building a 7. I have no idea if the situation is the same with the 9. Bob St. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Subject: RV7-List: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs Scratchin' my head once again ... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs
Date: Jun 03, 2005
You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it won't sit perfectly flush at the forward portion of the skin. But it might be close enough. However, I suspect that the fact it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire forward part getting hacked off. The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to conclude that they want the flange mated with the bulkhead, but the plans themselves don't show that, which is why I just hacked it off. I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose to cut it off -- aside from the fact that's what the plans said -- to get a perfectly flush fit. -------------- Original message -------------- > > > Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures. > > The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the > forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit > flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of > the 705 bulkhead. > > I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead > and make a decision ... > > g > You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it won't sit perfectly flush at the forward portion of the skin. But it might be close enough. However, I suspect that the fact it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire forward part getting hacked off. The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to conclude that they want the flange mated with the bulkhead, but the plans themselves don't show that, which is why I just hacked it off. I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose to cut it off -- aside from the fact that's what the plans said -- to get a perfectly flush fit. -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures. The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of the 705 bulkhead. I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead and make a decision ... g ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2005
Interesting that one list member sent me a pic offline of this area in his quick build fuse - appears that Van's doesn't trim the front end off and just lets the web of the rib ride up over the flange of the bulkhead. I guess they don't worry about the rib not being flush with the skin. When I say Van's - I mean whoever the contractor is that builds the quickbuilds for them ;-) g > > > You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it > won't sit perfectly flush at the forward portion of the skin. > But it might be close enough. However, I suspect that the fact > it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire forward > part getting hacked off. > > The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to > conclude that they want the flange mated with the bulkhead, but > the plans themselves don't show that, which is why I just > hacked it off. > > I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose > to cut it off -- aside from the fact that's what the plans said > -- to get a perfectly flush fit. > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > > > Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures. > > > > The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the > > forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit > > flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of > > the 705 bulkhead. > > > > I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead > > and make a decision ... > > > > g > > > > You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it > won't sit perfectly flush at the forward portion of the skin. > But it might be close enough. However, I suspect that the fact > it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire forward > part getting hacked off. > > The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to > conclude that they want the flange mated with the bulkhead, but > the plans themselves don't show that, which is why I just > hacked it off. > > I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose > to cut it off -- aside from the fact that's what the plans said > -- to get a perfectly flush fit. > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures. > > The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the > forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit > flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of > the 705 bulkhead. > > I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead > and make a decision ... > > g > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: ready to order wing kit
Date: Jun 04, 2005
Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time... So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel sender. I'm going with capactive. What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit? IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc? (It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky notes like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this part"?) I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc. I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), trutrak, AOA indicator... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2005
From: Scott Farner <sfarner(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: ready to order wing kit
Well if you are a big wuss like I am, the only other option you have to think about is getting pre-built fuel tanks. I've seen autopilot installations in the wing, but you can also mount it in the fuselage. Any thing like lights, strobes and such that will be mounted on the tip can wait until later (in fact the plans mention to put off wing tip installation). The only thing to worry about during construction is for these items is wiring runs. I can't remember if the plans mention it, but it is best done before the ribs are riveted. If you go for a heated pitot, installation will be near the end of wing construction (depending on which wing you start with) before the bottom skins are riveted. -- Scott www.scottfarner.com RV-7A Waiting for Fuselage On 6/3/05, Don Hall wrote: > > Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time... > > So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel sender. > I'm going with capactive. > What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit? > IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc? > > (It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky notes > like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this > part"?) > > I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc. > I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), trutrak, > AOA indicator... > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net>
Subject: ready to order wing kit
Date: Jun 03, 2005
I used Duckworks lights and an Aero instrument heated pitot. I also installed the trutrack servo in the wing.I found it worthwhile to have these tinmgs on hand before building the wing. Don RV7 Finish Kit -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Hall Subject: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time... So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel sender. I'm going with capactive. What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit? IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc? (It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky notes like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this part"?) I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc. I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), trutrak, AOA indicator... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: ready to order wing kit
Date: Jun 03, 2005
Some autopilot manufacturers, such as TruTrak, will sell or give you the servo brackets without having to buy a system -- they figure you're gonna be a customer if they give you the brackets. Good marketing, and good sense. If you have a choice, install the TruTrak aileron servo bracket when you build the wing spar. It's no big thing to install it later, but you'd save time by doing it up front. While you're planning, consider the THREE wiring runs which don't really go in the normal root-to-tip conduit... 1) Autopilot servo 2) Pitot heat 3) OAT sensor As tempting as it is to put the OAT sensor in the NACA vent like so many RVs out there have done, don't do it if you have the choice. The reading will not be perfectly accurate there...hot air escapes the sides of the cowling right in front of it. An OAT sensor belongs out on the bottom of the wing. If it's not going to be accurate, why bother?! Anyway, for these three wiring runs, just consider installing additional snap bushings or grommets. Everything else (antennas, strobes, position lights, landing lights, cameras) can be wired through the conduit. Yes, strobe wires & antenna wires can be run together. I don't recommend running the wires now, just start thinking about where they will run. Hope this helps, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> Subject: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit > > Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time... > > So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel sender. > I'm going with capactive. > What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit? > IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc? > > (It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky notes > like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this > part"?) > > I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc. > I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), trutrak, > AOA indicator... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2005
From: SkyKing <skyking135(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: ready to order wing kit
Dan Checkoway wrote: > >Some autopilot manufacturers, such as TruTrak, will sell or give you the >servo brackets without having to buy a system -- they figure you're gonna be >a customer if they give you the brackets. Good marketing, and good sense. > >If you have a choice, install the TruTrak aileron servo bracket when you >build the wing spar. It's no big thing to install it later, but you'd save >time by doing it up front. > >While you're planning, consider the THREE wiring runs which don't really go >in the normal root-to-tip conduit... > >1) Autopilot servo >2) Pitot heat >3) OAT sensor > >As tempting as it is to put the OAT sensor in the NACA vent like so many RVs >out there have done, don't do it if you have the choice. The reading will >not be perfectly accurate there...hot air escapes the sides of the cowling >right in front of it. An OAT sensor belongs out on the bottom of the wing. >If it's not going to be accurate, why bother?! > >Anyway, for these three wiring runs, just consider installing additional >snap bushings or grommets. Everything else (antennas, strobes, position >lights, landing lights, cameras) can be wired through the conduit. Yes, >strobe wires & antenna wires can be run together. > >I don't recommend running the wires now, just start thinking about where >they will run. > >Hope this helps, >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> >To: >Subject: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit > > > > >> >>Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time... >> >>So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel >> >> >sender. > > >>I'm going with capactive. >>What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit? >>IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc? >> >>(It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky >> >> >notes > > >>like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this >>part"?) >> >>I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc. >>I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), >> >> >trutrak, > > >>AOA indicator... >> >> >> >> > > > > I see guys mounting the autopilot servo in the wing and some mounting it in the fuselage. What's the difference? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: ready to order wing kit
Date: Jun 04, 2005
> I see guys mounting the autopilot servo in the wing and some mounting it > in the fuselage. What's the difference? On the -7, the "standard" TruTrak installation is in the wing. On the -6 and -8 the standard installation is under the seat pan. The idea is to create an isolated system, where roll inputs won't affect pitch (i.e. "pitch bump"), and vice versa. On the -8, you can get away with isolation with the servo in the fuselage because of the control column design. On the-7, you can't. And on the -6, they went for the path of least resistance. Talk to Jim at TruTrak if you have any questions about this. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: ready to order wing kit
Date: Jun 04, 2005
Don, with the way things are changing, I would wait for buying the AP because there is good odds there will be something better/cheaper/improved in the next 12 months. FWIW, I installed the tru trac AP, landing lights, strobes, and position lights after my wings where finished. You will want to install conduit for running wires before you close up the wing however. I had not yet painted the wings when I put the Duckworth landing lights in. I would rethink the landing lights and look at the wing tip type if I were doing it again. However, Duckworth are ok and it leaves more room for the position and strobes in the tips. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies Subject: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit > > Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time... > > So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel > sender. > I'm going with capactive. > What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit? > IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: ready to order wing kit
Date: Jun 04, 2005
Just wanted to get the brands spelled correctly for the builder who's reading the archive... tru trac = TruTrak http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com Duckworth = Duckworks http://www.duckworksaviation.com )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit > > Don, with the way things are changing, I would wait for buying the AP > because there is good odds there will be something better/cheaper/improved > in the next 12 months. FWIW, I installed the tru trac AP, landing lights, > strobes, and position lights after my wings where finished. You will want > to install conduit for running wires before you close up the wing however. > I had not yet painted the wings when I put the Duckworth landing lights in. > I would rethink the landing lights and look at the wing tip type if I were > doing it again. However, Duckworth are ok and it leaves more room for the > position and strobes in the tips. > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies > > Subject: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit > > > > > > Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time... > > > > So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel > > sender. > > I'm going with capactive. > > What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit? > > IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2005
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons
15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM Hi All, Got the right aileron on this weekend and scratched my head about attaching the flap. The plans call out for 1/4" spacing between the flap/aileron and aileron/wing-tip. So I placed the wing-tip on the wing only to discover that a lot of sanding needs to occur on the wing-tip to achieve the 1/4" spacing. Is there a better reference that I can measure to/from to adjust the inboard/outboard positions of the flap/aileron? If possible, I'd like to move the aileron inboard by one washer thickness to avoid a slight binding between the push rod and the rear spar. I could dremel out the hole a little bit more but I'd rather not if at all possible. Thoughts? And finally, I've already dimpled the bottom wing skins and the flap brace causing my #40 holes to no longer be #40. So how do I accurately drill the flap hinge so that the rivets will fall into place? Thanks, /\/elson RV-7A Wings - Flaps and Ailerons Austin, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005
08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM
Date: Jun 06, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hello David...It was about 3 weeks ago that I got to this very point...and made the very same mistake except I actually rivitted the rear lower skin to the flap brace WITHOUT installing the flap hinge...DOH! The answer to the hinge dilemma is "very carefully", that is very carefully clamp the hinge on the bottom of the wing skin with the flap attatched to the hinge....the rear edge of the flap and the aileron need to line up with the aileron clamped in the neutral position (piece of angle clamped to the outboard rib and clecoe type clamp on the aileron weldment will hold it firmly in place). Then slide the wing towards you so that you can drill from the top side and fully rotate the flap upwards to allow access for the drill..Spot drill with a larger than #40 drill bit in about 6 locations along the hinge. Remove everything...drill the spots out to #40 and fit the hinge as normal...On both of mine I found I had to shim the aileron out about one thin washers worth under each of the weldments...alignment is now perfect. However I have told you all this in reverse...First you have to position the flap aileron laterally. First off the reference is the aileron itself...My reference was the two washers shown on the outboard hinge...always put these in there when trial fitting, make the spacer on the other end to suit. That sets the lateral reference...Now your flap needs to be set 3/16ths to 1/4" from thes edge of the aileron. Yes there will be sanding (cutting with the flexiglass disc provided for the canopy works well) on the tip to get the clearance...If you think about it there has to be, no way round it. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E. Nelson Subject: RV7-List: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM --> Hi All, Got the right aileron on this weekend and scratched my head about attaching the flap. The plans call out for 1/4" spacing between the flap/aileron and aileron/wing-tip. So I placed the wing-tip on the wing only to discover that a lot of sanding needs to occur on the wing-tip to achieve the 1/4" spacing. Is there a better reference that I can measure to/from to adjust the inboard/outboard positions of the flap/aileron? If possible, I'd like to move the aileron inboard by one washer thickness to avoid a slight binding between the push rod and the rear spar. I could dremel out the hole a little bit more but I'd rather not if at all possible. Thoughts? And finally, I've already dimpled the bottom wing skins and the flap brace causing my #40 holes to no longer be #40. So how do I accurately drill the flap hinge so that the rivets will fall into place? Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005
08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM
Date: Jun 06, 2005
Center the aileron brackets as best you can. That's a good starting point. In other words, try to get the powder coated brackets on the ailerons as centered as possible over the aluminum bearing brackets on the wings. Record (write down, photograph, whatever) the combination of washers you used to achieve that centering...you will want to use that same combination going forward. Once the aileron is where you want it, let that be the reference for all else. Install the flap to achieve proper spacing from the aileron, and trim or file the inboard edge of the flap to achieve spacing from the fuselage. That gap can be a little tighter. Mine almost contacts (it did contact on my early flights, filed it back a bit). Next install the wing tip. Yes, the flange comes "oversized" and the aft end definitely extends inboard too far. You will have to trim this. Trim it so that when the wing tip is positioned, you have proper spacing between it and your aileron. Yes, you will most likely have the wing tip trailing edge extending aft past the aileron trailing edge. This is common. And the wing tip trailing edge might not be perfectly in trail with the aileron when the aileron is rigged & centered (use the bellcrank rigging tool here to hold it rigid). You can trim the wing tip trailing edge, and you can slice open its edge and then re-epoxy it where you want it. My advice is to RIG THE AILERONS, and then match the flap & wing tip to the aileron, NOT vice versa! On the flap hinge, just do your best to center everything. You were supposed to countersink, not dimple, the flap brace. I made the same mistake. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (500+ hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> Subject: RV7-List: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM > > > Hi All, > > Got the right aileron on this weekend and scratched my head about attaching the > flap. The plans call out for 1/4" spacing between the flap/aileron and > aileron/wing-tip. So I placed the wing-tip on the wing only to discover that a > lot of sanding needs to occur on the wing-tip to achieve the 1/4" spacing. Is > there a better reference that I can measure to/from to adjust the > inboard/outboard positions of the flap/aileron? > > If possible, I'd like to move the aileron inboard by one washer thickness to > avoid a slight binding between the push rod and the rear spar. I could dremel > out the hole a little bit more but I'd rather not if at all possible. > Thoughts? > > And finally, I've already dimpled the bottom wing skins and the flap brace > causing my #40 holes to no longer be #40. So how do I accurately drill the > flap hinge so that the rivets will fall into place? > > Thanks, > /\/elson > RV-7A Wings - Flaps and Ailerons > Austin, TX > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
08":06:07.AM(at)roxy.matronics.com, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09.AM(at)roxy.matronics.com, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09.AM(at)roxy.matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005
08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM identified this incoming email as possible spam. An analysis of the message is below. Content analysis details: (1.6 points) 1.6 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES Subject contains lots of white space I agree with Dan on all. Norman RV-6, RV-7, RV-7, F1 Rocket Dan Checkoway wrote: > >Center the aileron brackets as best you can. That's a good starting point. >In other words, try to get the powder coated brackets on the ailerons as >centered as possible over the aluminum bearing brackets on the wings. >Record (write down, photograph, whatever) the combination of washers you >used to achieve that centering...you will want to use that same combination >going forward. > >Once the aileron is where you want it, let that be the reference for all >else. > >Install the flap to achieve proper spacing from the aileron, and trim or >file the inboard edge of the flap to achieve spacing from the fuselage. >That gap can be a little tighter. Mine almost contacts (it did contact on >my early flights, filed it back a bit). > >Next install the wing tip. Yes, the flange comes "oversized" and the aft >end definitely extends inboard too far. You will have to trim this. Trim >it so that when the wing tip is positioned, you have proper spacing between >it and your aileron. > >Yes, you will most likely have the wing tip trailing edge extending aft past >the aileron trailing edge. This is common. And the wing tip trailing edge >might not be perfectly in trail with the aileron when the aileron is rigged >& centered (use the bellcrank rigging tool here to hold it rigid). You can >trim the wing tip trailing edge, and you can slice open its edge and then >re-epoxy it where you want it. > >My advice is to RIG THE AILERONS, and then match the flap & wing tip to the >aileron, NOT vice versa! > >On the flap hinge, just do your best to center everything. You were >supposed to countersink, not dimple, the flap brace. I made the same >mistake. > >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D (500+ hours) >http://www.rvproject.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> >To: >Subject: RV7-List: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons 15, 2004) at >06/06/2005 08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on >MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 >08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM > > > > >> >> >>Hi All, >> >>Got the right aileron on this weekend and scratched my head about >> >> >attaching the > > >>flap. The plans call out for 1/4" spacing between the flap/aileron and >>aileron/wing-tip. So I placed the wing-tip on the wing only to discover >> >> >that a > > >>lot of sanding needs to occur on the wing-tip to achieve the 1/4" spacing. >> >> >Is > > >>there a better reference that I can measure to/from to adjust the >>inboard/outboard positions of the flap/aileron? >> >>If possible, I'd like to move the aileron inboard by one washer thickness >> >> >to > > >>avoid a slight binding between the push rod and the rear spar. I could >> >> >dremel > > >>out the hole a little bit more but I'd rather not if at all possible. >>Thoughts? >> >>And finally, I've already dimpled the bottom wing skins and the flap brace >>causing my #40 holes to no longer be #40. So how do I accurately drill >> >> >the > > >>flap hinge so that the rivets will fall into place? >> >>Thanks, >> /\/elson >> RV-7A Wings - Flaps and Ailerons >> Austin, TX >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005
08:06:07 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM, Serialize complete at 06/06/2005 08:06:09 AM
Date: Jun 06, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Incidently....I dimpled everything....skin, flap brace and hinge...All works just fine and saves a bit of time. With my alerons/flaps set up like in my previous message I had the flap skin scrape the sides of the fuse...some mild trimming and its worked out perfect...As Dan would say..."Your milage may vary". Frank RV-7 airframe Almost complete...:) On the flap hinge, just do your best to center everything. You were supposed to countersink, not dimple, the flap brace. I made the same mistake. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (500+ hours) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: glueing rudder aft edge
Date: Jun 07, 2005
I don't feel like doing pro-seal. Any other glues you'd recommend for this job? Preferrably something at home depot or ace... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2005
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Fitting/aligning the flaps/ailerons
15, 2004) at 06/07/2005 07:50:04 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/07/2005 07:50:07 AM, Serialize complete at 06/07/2005 07:50:07 AM Dan, Norman, and Frank, Thanks for the responses. Got the right aileron squared away yesterday evening and started on the flap hinge using a #41 drill (as that is what seemed to fit dimpled holes) to initially mark the holes on the hinge and then followed up with a #40. Edge distance is Ok and I think it'll all work out just fine. If not, I can always order some more hinge and try again. ;) A couple of lessons have been learned from this experience and that's a good thing - I just hope that if I do this all over again many years from now I'll remember them. Thanks again, /\/elson RV-7A - Flaps and ailerons Austin, TX -- ~~ ** ~~ 4 out of 3 people have problems with fractions ~~ ** ~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: glueing rudder aft edge
Date: Jun 07, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Vulkem 116 sealant sold at Home Depot....It is THE duct sealant used by all my contractors for a large wafer fab...When it sets up it sticks like you won't believe and stays gooey. Oh and is perfectly compatible with Aluminium. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall Subject: RV7-List: glueing rudder aft edge I don't feel like doing pro-seal. Any other glues you'd recommend for this job? Preferrably something at home depot or ace... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: glueing rudder aft edge
Date: Jun 08, 2005
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
>From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> >Subject: RV7-List: glueing rudder aft edge >I don't feel like doing pro-seal. Any other glues you'd recommend for this job? >Preferrably something at home depot or ace... ------------ I plan on using JB Weld. I think any epoxy would work also. All it's doing is holding things in place to make the riveting easier. I helped my son do his rudder, and we didn't glue it at all. Of course it required 2 of us to do it that way, but it came out great. Dennis Glaeser RV7A Empennage coming next week... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: glueing rudder aft edge
Date: Jun 08, 2005
From: "Lockamy, Jack L" <jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil>
May not be available at Home Depot or Ace.... but I would use 3M 5200 Fast Cure (24-HR) Adhesive/Sealant. You can purchase it online or as I did from a local marine supply store. Boaters (and airplane builders) love this stuff. I've yet to find a better adhesive. Comes in white or black color. One six-ounce tube is approx. $10 but will be enough to build an entire airplane where needed. Store the unused portion in a zip lock bag and keep it refrigerated. Caution: Once this stuff sets up... it WON'T be coming off! I used it to glue my NACA vents to the fuselage so as not to use any rivets. I also used it glue the intersection fairings to my wheel pants. NOTE: The regular 3M 5200 takes 5-7 days to set-up. Be sure to get the 5200 FAST CURE (24-HR) unless you are not in a hurry.... Jack N174JL RV-7A Flying and at the paint shop ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: 5 point harness
On 06/10 4:08, Cliff Lotter wrote: > How do I fit the crotch strap for a 5 point harness to the RV7? There are pre cut holes in the correct position but no indication of how to fit, in fact the pre-cup holes are not even indicated in the plans. Order Vans 5pt harness installation kit. It's a seperate order. Comes with instructions and plans. Just be aware the vans crotch strap thickness at the mounting point is different from other seat belt manufacturers like team rocket. And the bolt size is also different. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: 5 point harness
On 06/10 9:25, Dan Checkoway wrote: > > I don't have a 5-point system (I have Van's simple cheap lightweight > 4-point). The 5-point is an uncomfortable waste of weight & cost (imho). > Not worth it unless you have inverted OIL *and* FUEL *and* you do lots of > sustained inverted. Otherwise why bother? Safety. If it will hold you better in the seat inverted it's certainly going to keep you in the seat better if you have to land *unexpectedly*. And the el-cheapo vans belts don't look near as cool either. This is obviously the main factor why I didn't chose them. :) You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable. So what if it weights a pound more. You aren't going to notice the net speed loss, even if you could measure it. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: 5 point harness
On 06/10 10:51, Dan Checkoway wrote: > > Understood about safety. > > > You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable. > > How quickly can you remove it? Surely you don't want it just lying there > where it can interfere with the stick. Shove it back into the slot in the seat cushion. It's out of the way at that point. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 5 point harness
Date: Jun 10, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
So is the consensus that a side by side RV with inverted fuel and oil really needs 5 point harnesses? Don't think I'm going to like the answer to this..... Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <richardglick(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: 5 point harness
Date: Jun 10, 2005
Both sides have +'s and -'s and now it's up to you. Make the desision and then go for it and don't look back. I went forward with the 5 Point Hooker in my RV7A and I certantly wont second guess what I did. Richard Glick RV7A, Wisconsin > > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> > Date: 2005/06/10 Fri PM 03:02:58 EDT > To: > Subject: RE: RV7-List: 5 point harness > > > So is the consensus that a side by side RV with inverted fuel and oil > really needs 5 point harnesses? > > Don't think I'm going to like the answer to this..... > > Frank > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: 5 point harness
yes Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >So is the consensus that a side by side RV with inverted fuel and oil >really needs 5 point harnesses? > >Don't think I'm going to like the answer to this..... > >Frank > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sargentclt(at)cs.com
Date: Jun 11, 2005
Subject: Re: 5 point harness
You need to buy the supplemental parts from Van's, or get the drawings and make the parts yourself. I have the Hooker brand and highly recommend them. Tad Sargent Sargentclt(at)CS.com RV7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENAJRICK(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 2005
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05
I'm considering sending my fuel tanks out to be done. Since i'm building the slow wings any help with speeding the process can't hurt and with all I've read about pro-seal, well let's just say I wasn't looking forward to it. Does anyone know where I can get this done? I read on Van's site that they do -9 wings for about $1,600./pair but did not see anything about the -7. I checked out Evan's site and it looks promising. Are there any other options? Does anyone have experience with Evan's. Thanks for any help. Rick Rammos Miami RV-7A / wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2005
Subject: Re: Builder assist with fuel tanks
HTML_NONELEMENT_00_10(at)roxy.matronics.com, BODY:, to(at)roxy.matronics.com, of(at)roxy.matronics.com, HTML(at)roxy.matronics.com, elements(at)roxy.matronics.com, are(at)roxy.matronics.com, non-standard(at)roxy.matronics.com Rick, Contact Doug Ripley at Sport Air, Inc. here in Atlanta. He runs a full service Builder Assist Shop and specializes in RV's. Does very high quality work. _doug(at)sportairinc.com_ (mailto:doug(at)sportairinc.com) 404-403-9208 _http://www.sportairinc.com/_ (http://www.sportairinc.com/) Jon Berndsen RV-7A In a message dated 6/13/2005 3:01:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: ENAJRICK(at)aol.com Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05 I'm considering sending my fuel tanks out to be done. Since i'm building the slow wings any help with speeding the process can't hurt and with all I've read about pro-seal, well let's just say I wasn't looking forward to it. Does anyone know where I can get this done? I read on Van's site that they do -9 wings for about $1,600./pair but did not see anything about the -7. I checked out Evan's site and it looks promising. Are there any other options? Does anyone have experience with Evan's. Thanks for any help. Rick Rammos Miami RV-7A / wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2005
Subject: Re: Builder assist with fuel tanks
"IMB Recipient 1" Rick, Contact Doug Ripley at Sport Air, Inc. here in Atlanta. He runs a full service Builder Assist Shop and specializes in RV's. Does very high quality work. _doug(at)sportairinc.com_ (mailto:doug(at)sportairinc.com) 404-403-9208 _http://www.sportairinc.com/_ (http://www.sportairinc.com/) Jon Berndsen RV-7A In a message dated 6/13/2005 3:01:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: ENAJRICK(at)aol.com Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05 I'm considering sending my fuel tanks out to be done. Since i'm building the slow wings any help with speeding the process can't hurt and with all I've read about pro-seal, well let's just say I wasn't looking forward to it. Does anyone know where I can get this done? I read on Van's site that they do -9 wings for about $1,600./pair but did not see anything about the -7. I checked out Evan's site and it looks promising. Are there any other options? Does anyone have experience with Evan's. Thanks for any help. Rick Rammos Miami RV-7A / wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2005
From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05
Rick I felt like you ....but ....decide I would give the process a try. Much to my surprise it wasn't as big a headache as I thought. I learned a bunch of things and new techniques that will help me on the rest of the plane. I just wish I knew them when I started the tanks in stead of learning through trial and error. I wish I lived closer or had my plane done and could come and help you do your tanks. If you decide to give the process a try e-mail me off line fstringham(at)hotmail.com or give me a call 435-632-6895 and I would be happy to give you the info as to what worked for me. Frank @ sgu and slc ENAJRICK(at)aol.com wrote: I'm considering sending my fuel tanks out to be done. Since i'm building the slow wings any help with speeding the process can't hurt and with all I've read about pro-seal, well let's just say I wasn't looking forward to it. Does anyone know where I can get this done? I read on Van's site that they do -9 wings for about $1,600./pair but did not see anything about the -7. I checked out Evan's site and it looks promising. Are there any other options? Does anyone have experience with Evan's. Thanks for any help. Rick Rammos Miami RV-7A / wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05
Hey Rick don't let people scare you off of building them yourself, its no big deal. I have build four sets of them now. ENAJRICK(at)aol.com wrote: > >I'm considering sending my fuel tanks out to be done. Since i'm building the >slow wings any help with speeding the process can't hurt and with all I've >read about pro-seal, well let's just say I wasn't looking forward to it. Does >anyone know where I can get this done? I read on Van's site that they do -9 >wings for about $1,600./pair but did not see anything about the -7. I checked >out Evan's site and it looks promising. Are there any other options? Does >anyone have experience with Evan's. Thanks for any help. > >Rick Rammos >Miami >RV-7A / wings > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2005
From: Norm Tatz <normtatz(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Dimple Problem
I had a misfire while dimpling my vertical stabilizer skin and now have an offset, elongated and mis-formed dimple. A search of the archives shows no previous topics - am I the first to make this mistake? Any recommendations for a fix? Thanks in advance, Norm Tatz RV-7 Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2005
From: Scott Farner <sfarner(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dimple Problem
Norm, Check out this link: http://www.rvproject.com/20020824.html -- Scott www.scottfarner.com Waiting for Fuse On 6/13/05, Norm Tatz wrote: > > I had a misfire while dimpling my vertical stabilizer skin and now have an > offset, elongated and mis-formed dimple. A search of the archives shows no > previous topics - am I the first to make this mistake? Any recommendations > for a fix? > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Norm Tatz > > RV-7 Empennage > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: Dimple Problem
Date: Jun 14, 2005
I haven't yet dealt with a misfire like that pictured below, but for a less severe one, I squeezed the unsightly dimple area back to flat and redimpled. If the resulting hole seemed slightly larger, I try using a half-size longer rivet to allow for more expansion and still get a decent size shophead. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Farner Subject: Re: RV7-List: Dimple Problem Norm, Check out this link: http://www.rvproject.com/20020824.html -- Scott www.scottfarner.com Waiting for Fuse On 6/13/05, Norm Tatz wrote: > > I had a misfire while dimpling my vertical stabilizer skin and now > have an offset, elongated and mis-formed dimple. A search of the > archives shows no previous topics - am I the first to make this > mistake? Any recommendations for a fix? > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Norm Tatz > > RV-7 Empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05
Date: Jun 14, 2005
Wow, 1600 bucks? That's 40% of the premium for the quickbuild option on the wings. I've already ordered the slowbuild wings. I'm glad if that's the price. Now all temptation to avoid pro-seal is averted for me. ;> Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ENAJRICK(at)aol.com Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05 I'm considering sending my fuel tanks out to be done. Since i'm building the slow wings any help with speeding the process can't hurt and with all I've read about pro-seal, well let's just say I wasn't looking forward to it. Does anyone know where I can get this done? I read on Van's site that they do -9 wings for about $1,600./pair but did not see anything about the -7. I checked out Evan's site and it looks promising. Are there any other options? Does anyone have experience with Evan's. Thanks for any help. Rick Rammos Miami RV-7A / wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Builder assist with fuel tanks
Van's is getting out of the tank business unless you are purchasing QB wings. I believe they have even been removed from the latest order sheet. Evans built Van's tanks for a long time... I would use Evans. Darrell BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote: Rick, Contact Doug Ripley at Sport Air, Inc. here in Atlanta. He runs a full service Builder Assist Shop and specializes in RV's. Does very high quality work. _doug(at)sportairinc.com_ (mailto:doug(at)sportairinc.com) 404-403-9208 _http://www.sportairinc.com/_ (http://www.sportairinc.com/) Jon Berndsen RV-7A In a message dated 6/13/2005 3:01:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: ENAJRICK(at)aol.com Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/08/05 I'm considering sending my fuel tanks out to be done. Since i'm building the slow wings any help with speeding the process can't hurt and with all I've read about pro-seal, well let's just say I wasn't looking forward to it. Does anyone know where I can get this done? I read on Van's site that they do -9 wings for about $1,600./pair but did not see anything about the -7. I checked out Evan's site and it looks promising. Are there any other options? Does anyone have experience with Evan's. Thanks for any help. Rick Rammos Miami RV-7A / wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Cook" <Dugcook(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Dimple Problem
Date: Jun 14, 2005
Norm, I did the same thing on my HS. I smacked the booboo flat and re-dimpled. After everything was done, you can hardly tell. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: elevator counterbalance
Date: Jun 15, 2005
The plans call for a section of the counterbalance to be cut out. It was fun enough just drilling holes in lead. My bandsaw wasn't enjoying the job too much, but I suppose it'll work if I keep at it. But I wonder if there is an easier way... Any tips on the best tools for cutting out a section of lead and then shaping a radius into a corner? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: elevator counterbalance
Date: Jun 15, 2005
You can use a chisel on lead. Sometimes even a razor blade. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> Subject: RV7-List: elevator counterbalance > > > The plans call for a section of the counterbalance to be cut out. It was > fun enough just drilling holes in lead. My bandsaw wasn't enjoying the job > too much, but I suppose it'll work if I keep at it. But I wonder if there > is an easier way... Any tips on the best tools for cutting out a section of > lead and then shaping a radius into a corner? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Duplicate messages
Date: Jun 15, 2005
Is anyone else getting duplicate messages from this list? I started receiving them about a week ago. Thanks Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gtamvakis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: elevator counterbalance
Date: Jun 15, 2005
put a wood cutting blade on your band saw and it will cut the lead quick and easy if you let it get hot it will be harder to work with so do a little at the time.Same with drilling a little at the time.If it was easy it would not be as much fun. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> Subject: RV7-List: elevator counterbalance > > > The plans call for a section of the counterbalance to be cut out. It was > fun enough just drilling holes in lead. My bandsaw wasn't enjoying the > job > too much, but I suppose it'll work if I keep at it. But I wonder if there > is an easier way... Any tips on the best tools for cutting out a section > of > lead and then shaping a radius into a corner? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Patterson" <dpatterson14(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: elevator counterbalance
Date: Jun 15, 2005
I used a band saw but used some lube on the blade. Watch how much you remove... I followed the print and found later that I needed to add more lead. Don Patterson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: elevator counterbalance > > You can use a chisel on lead. Sometimes even a razor blade. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: elevator counterbalance > > > > > > > > The plans call for a section of the counterbalance to be cut out. It was > > fun enough just drilling holes in lead. My bandsaw wasn't enjoying the > job > > too much, but I suppose it'll work if I keep at it. But I wonder if there > > is an easier way... Any tips on the best tools for cutting out a section > of > > lead and then shaping a radius into a corner? > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR <Neal.George(at)maxwell.af.mil>
Subject: elevator counterbalance
Date: Jun 15, 2005
Don - I used a fine-tooth hack saw and lubed the blade with T-9 (Boelube in a spray can) to rough out the lead. Then used a rat-tail rasp to rough out the inside radius, finish with a chainsaw file. Vixen file for the flat / outside radius areas. Also used T-9 on the files and cleaned the files often with the file card / wire brush. Neal RV-7 N8ZG Fuselage www.appaero.com > posted by: "Don Hall" Any tips on the best tools for cutting out a section of lead and then shaping a radius into a corner? < ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Fitting the firewall recess
15, 2004) at 06/15/2005 08:10:25 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ59-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 06/15/2005 08:10:26 AM, Serialize complete at 06/15/2005 08:10:26 AM Hi All, Got started on the firewall and the fit of the recess is causing me fits. All the holes line up except the top two (#30's). I have to really bend/push/shove the cleco to get it in which isn't right. And there's no way I'm going to be


December 07, 2004 - June 15, 2005

RV7-Archive.digest.vol-ah