RV7-Archive.digest.vol-aj

August 21, 2005 - October 18, 2005



      
      Craft  #units   Flips  Pct
      RV-6           672      34    5%
      RV-6A           642      33    5%
      RV-7            57      0     0%
      RV-7A            98      3     3%
      RV-8           298      7     2%
      RV-8A            84      5     6%
      RV-9            15      0     0%
      RV-9A           107      3     3%
      
      That got me wondering how these numbers would compare to various production
      aircraft with lots of units, say a Cherokee 140 and C-172 (though any
      smaller tricycle would do -- perhaps others, like an AA-1, would be more
      comparable to RVs).  I began to do that but stalled out; I had no trouble
      with the NTSB query, but I didn't see how to determine how many of a given
      type are in service.  
      
      I wonder what the comparison would show.
      
      Rick
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENAJRICK(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 21, 2005
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/20/05
On a different subject. I'm about to close up my tanks and for admittedly purely aestheic reasons I can't quite bring myself to install these clunky fuel drains. They probably work great and all, but, does anyone know of a simple substitute that lays flush or almost flush with the bottom skin? They seem more at home on a crop duster. Rick R RV-7A / wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnCClarkVA(at)cs.com
Date: Aug 21, 2005
Subject: Re: More data - Nosewheel collapse another view
Go to www.faa.gov, then LICENSES and CERT, then SEARCH A/C RECORDS, then SEARCH A/C REGISTRATIONS. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More data - Nosewheel collapse another view
Are you referring to the 9A that landed and flipped over on the 15th in Palmer, AK? Go to www.faa.gov, then LICENSES and CERT, then SEARCH A/C RECORDS, then SEARCH A/C REGISTRATIONS. Darrell Reiley Round Rock, Texas RV 7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnCClarkVA(at)cs.com
Date: Aug 21, 2005
Subject: Re: More data - Nosewheel collapse another view
Oops sorry. I had made an earlier post and Rick McCraw had asked about the FAA data base. "That got me wondering how these numbers would compare to various production aircraft with lots of units, say a Cherokee 140 and C-172 (though any smaller tricycle would do -- perhaps others, like an AA-1, would be more comparable to RVs). I began to do that but stalled out; I had no trouble with the NTSB query, but I didn't see how to determine how many of a given type are in service." My post was just about where to look on the FAA web site to find the number of registered airplanes by model. The FAA site will list a model by state and a total at the end of the states. John. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: tap for tie down ring?
Date: Aug 21, 2005
How do you tap the AEX tie down bracket for the tie down ring? ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 wings http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html ****************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tap for tie down ring?
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2005
Using a "3/8-16 tap". You can get one from Home Depot - they often come packaged with the appropriate drill. Clamp the bracket to the table of an overhead drill, use the provided drill to make the hole and then use the tap to make the thread. The tap is basically a tapered screw with 3 or 4 lengthwise flutes that have a very sharp, hard edge. After you've drilled the hole lengthwise, you "screw" the tap into the hole to make the thread. Use lots of your favorite cutting lubricant (Rapid Tap Cutting Fluid is a cheap option) when drilling and tapping. When you screw the tap into the hole, use the rythm "Half a turn clockwise, quarter turn back, half a turn clockwise, half a turn back..." that allows the cut metal to clear the cutting edge leaving a clean thread. Wash the thread out when you're done with kerosene or some other solvent that removes the tapping oil and the aluminum burrs created. g > > > > How do you tap the AEX tie down bracket for the tie down ring? > > ****************************************** > Don Hall > N517DG (registered) > rv7 wings > http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html > ****************************************** > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: tap for tie down ring?
Just use a regular tap and die set, put the aex in a vise and tap just a tad over 1". Make sure you keep it straight. I think you will find it easy once you get started. Darrell Don Hall wrote: How do you tap the AEX tie down bracket for the tie down ring? ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 wings http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html ****************************************** --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2005
From: Jamie Painter <jamie(at)jpainter.org>
Subject: Re: tap for tie down ring?
I would recommend using some Boelube as well. Also if I remember correctly, the hole is too small and you need to drill it out. - Jamie Darrell Reiley wrote: > >Just use a regular tap and die set, put the aex in a vise and tap just a tad over 1". Make sure you keep it straight. I think you will find it easy once you get started. > >Darrell > > >Don Hall wrote: > > >How do you tap the AEX tie down bracket for the tie down ring? > >****************************************** >Don Hall >N517DG (registered) >rv7 wings >http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html >****************************************** > > > >--------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brunke" <jwbrunk(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/20/05
Date: Aug 22, 2005
Rick, I remember that Cessna had an "almost flush mounted" type fuel drain back in the 70's and 80's. I would guess that the newer Cessna's might have the same drain. Worth a look. good luck, John Brunke RV7 tail St. Charles, IL ----- Original Message ----- From: <ENAJRICK(at)aol.com> Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/20/05 > > On a different subject. I'm about to close up my tanks and for > admittedly > purely aestheic reasons I can't quite bring myself to install these clunky > fuel > drains. They probably work great and all, but, does anyone know of a > simple > substitute that lays flush or almost flush with the bottom skin? They > seem > more at home on a crop duster. > > Rick R > RV-7A / wings > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 23, 2005
I closed out my rudder on Sunday and riveted the trailing edge without using Pro-Seal. My TE came out really damn straight and I wanted some input from other -7 -7A builders. Vans 'suggests' that you aim for less than .100" or 1/10th of an inch runout on the TE. My TE came out with .050 or 1/20th of an inch runout (within Van's suggested specs). I would like to hear from other builders and see what their results were, please. I guess what I am asking is could I expect altered flight characteristics with this amount of runout. Thanks, Scott Shook RV-7A Right Elevator primed and ready to rivet tonight. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Trailing Edge
I think you did a great job! I closed out my rudder on Sunday and riveted the trailing edge without using Pro-Seal. My TE came out really damn straight and I wanted some input from other -7 -7A builders. Vans 'suggests' that you aim for less than .100" or 1/10th of an inch runout on the TE. My TE came out with .050 or 1/20th of an inch runout (within Van's suggested specs). I would like to hear from other builders and see what their results were, please. I guess what I am asking is could I expect altered flight characteristics with this amount of runout. Thanks, Scott Shook RV-7A Right Elevator primed and ready to rivet tonight. Darrell Reiley Round Rock, Texas RV 7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Trailing Edge
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2005
There was a thread about this a few months ago - so long as the edge is straight (Van's gives tollerances for that in the manual) and doesn't have a deflection to the left of right, you'll be just fine. Apparently the precise shape and thickness of the trailing edge doesn't have much effect. g > > > > I think you did a great job! > > "Scott R. Shook" wrote:--> RV7-List message > posted by: "Scott R. Shook" > > I closed out my rudder on Sunday and riveted the trailing edge > without using > Pro-Seal. My TE came out really damn straight and I wanted some > input from > other -7 -7A builders. > > Vans 'suggests' that you aim for less than .100" or 1/10th of > an inch runout > on the TE. My TE came out with .050 or 1/20th of an inch runout (within > Van's suggested specs). I would like to hear from other builders and see > what their results were, please. > > I guess what I am asking is could I expect altered flight > characteristics > with this amount of runout. > > Thanks, > > Scott Shook RV-7A > Right Elevator primed and ready to rivet tonight. > > > Darrell Reiley > Round Rock, Texas > > RV 7A "Reiley Rocket" > N622DR (reserved) > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2005
Subject: New engine
From: flutewitch <flutewitch(at)cox.net>
I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time Thanks Bill RV 7 builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com>
Subject: New engine
Date: Aug 23, 2005
Some have been caught out with Duty importing the engine (back) to the US, so something to be wary of. Take a look at Mattituck, they have the same stuff, can use Superior parts, and can do FADEC if you want. I just got mine last week. check it out at www.4sierratango.com on the firewall forward page. Mark. >From: flutewitch <flutewitch(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV7-List: New engine >Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:50:29 -0600 > > >I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine >or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a >second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has >an >RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. >But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm >looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > >Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: New engine
You will be very hard pressed to find a better company to deal with. I have had three engines from them and a fourth ordered. Bart knows his stuff and won't lead you astray. Ask Jon Johanson about his engines he has got from Bart. Cheers Norman flutewitch wrote: > >I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine >or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a >second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an >RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. >But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm >looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > >Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Trailing Edge
Scott, I used an aluminum angle next to the trailing edge hold it aligned. I did not use proseal. My trailing edge looks as you have described yours. I may drip a line of thin epoxy down inside. I don't know if it will help much. Still debating. Dave --- "Scott R. Shook" wrote: > > > I closed out my rudder on Sunday and riveted the > trailing edge without using > Pro-Seal. My TE came out really damn straight and I > wanted some input from > other -7 -7A builders. > > Vans 'suggests' that you aim for less than .100" or > 1/10th of an inch runout > on the TE. My TE came out with .050 or 1/20th of an > inch runout (within > Van's suggested specs). I would like to hear from > other builders and see > what their results were, please. > > I guess what I am asking is could I expect altered > flight characteristics > with this amount of runout. > > Thanks, > > Scott Shook RV-7A > Right Elevator primed and ready to rivet tonight. > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Flap pushrod cutout
Date: Aug 23, 2005
Fellow builders, I am preparing my bottom center fuselage skin for riveting and I am trying to determine the cutout size for the flap pushrod. I have had the side skins on and I know there is a slot cut in the side skin for the flap pushrod. There is a 3/32 hole in bottom skin that lines up with this slot. I believe this slot and hole are to joined/enlarged together to form the slot for the pushrod, however I can't seem to find the proper reference in the drawings or instructions. If you can enlighten me I would appreciate it. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New engine
Date: Aug 24, 2005
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Bill, If your needs will be satisfied by a bog-standard engine then choose a product from the cheapest source - Superior, ECI, Matituk, or Lycoming. That said, I am a satisfied Aerosport customer. The only way an independent engine supplier such as Aerosport can compete with the big dudes is on quality and response to the customers needs. In my case Bart sat down with me to figure out my usage profile for the plane - which is IFR, so my first design priority was reliability, second was performance, and third was price. So Bart will pick the best combination of parts from all the various parts makers to optimise the engine for me. Worked a treat, a mostly Superior kit, cold induction system (which also means a aerobatic sump) from Sky Dynamics, Precision fuel injection but with Airflow Performance injectors, LSE electronic ignition, two B&C alternators, heavy duty starter. Hope this helps. David Francis, Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] Subject: RV7-List: New engine I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time Thanks Bill RV 7 builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dsvs(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Flap pushrod cutout
Date: Aug 24, 2005
Paul, There is no reference to look at. You have to "eye ball" it. I waited until I was ready to mount the wings. Having the wings on will give you a better idea as to where things need to be. Don > > Fellow builders, > > I am preparing my bottom center fuselage skin for riveting and I am trying to > determine the cutout size for the flap pushrod. I have had the side skins on > and I know there is a slot cut in the side skin for the flap pushrod. There is > a 3/32 hole in bottom skin that lines up with this slot. I believe this slot and > hole are to joined/enlarged together to form the slot for the pushrod, however I > can't seem to find the proper reference in the drawings or instructions. > > If you can enlighten me I would appreciate it. > > Paul > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Flap pushrod cutout
Don't cut out the slot for the flap push rod until after you have installed the wings and flaps. This is the time to determine where the slot will go. The small hole is a guide where the steps if used will go. Cheers Norman Merems wrote: > >Fellow builders, > >I am preparing my bottom center fuselage skin for riveting and I am trying to determine the cutout size for the flap pushrod. I have had the side skins on and I know there is a slot cut in the side skin for the flap pushrod. There is a 3/32 hole in bottom skin that lines up with this slot. I believe this slot and hole are to joined/enlarged together to form the slot for the pushrod, however I can't seem to find the proper reference in the drawings or instructions. > >If you can enlighten me I would appreciate it. > >Paul > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Flap pushrod cutout
Date: Aug 24, 2005
Gents, Thanks for the input on the flap pushrod cutout. I had thought that because of the advanced nature of the kit Van's would have given more information on the cutout. I thought I was having a senior moment (not finding it in the plans or instructions). Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Flap pushrod cutout
It is there but later in the manual. Merems wrote: > >Gents, > >Thanks for the input on the flap pushrod cutout. I had thought that because of the advanced nature of the kit Van's would have given more information on the cutout. I thought I was having a senior moment (not finding it in the plans or instructions). > >Paul > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2005
From: Phil Birkelbach <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Flap pushrod cutout
Don't worry about it at this point. You will want to have your wings on and flaps mounted when you cut that hole. It's a funny bean shaped thing if you cut the minimum amount out. It's one of those deals where you start small and work your way out until you get full deflection of the flaps with no interference. If you do it now you run the risk of making the hole too big and having it show from behind the flap or making it too small and having an interference, or a combination of both if you don't place the cutout just right. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up http://www.myrv7.com Merems wrote: > >Fellow builders, > >I am preparing my bottom center fuselage skin for riveting and I am trying to determine the cutout size for the flap pushrod. I have had the side skins on and I know there is a slot cut in the side skin for the flap pushrod. There is a 3/32 hole in bottom skin that lines up with this slot. I believe this slot and hole are to joined/enlarged together to form the slot for the pushrod, however I can't seem to find the proper reference in the drawings or instructions. > >If you can enlighten me I would appreciate it. > >Paul > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: New engine
Date: Aug 24, 2005
Bill, I doubt you'd go wrong with either. But you asked for perspective, so I'll toss mine in... I had AeroSport Power do the build-up on my IO-360. Absolutely fantastic engine, I gotta say that first. But anyway, when I did my first engine start, the prop didn't cycle. (Long story short, I just didn't have enough RPM in. But...) I called and spoke to Bart, and he wanted to rule out simple things first but was willing to send me tools and instruments in order to monitor crankcase & oil pressures and this and that. Hard to describe, because much of what he was talking about was way over my head. The point is that his support has been incredible. AeroSport Power stands behind their work and you're not "out the door" once the engine ships. They take good care of you. Another couple of examples... The IO-360 with horizontal induction really needs a sniffle valve. I didn't have a Lycoming parts manual at this point in the build (everybody should!) and called up Bart to find out the part #. Instead of giving me the part #, they just dropped one in the mail for me. Same deal for the gasket & cover on the vacuum pump pad. I called and asked what the part numbers were, and they just dropped 'em in the mail instead. Oh...and how about this... My engine came with hoses, fittings, restrictor fittings, etc. Don't know if all AeroSport engines come like this, but does Superior build the engine "complete" like this? Maybe so, but something to consider. I know other builders whose engines came from other shops (which shall remain nameless), and upon checking timing, idle mixture, etc. they were all off. When I checked these things on my engine, they were dead on, zero tolerance (in my estimation). This engine has over 600 hours on it now and it just runs like a friggin' champ. I'm extremely confident in AeroSport Power's ability to build a great engine. I'm an extremely happy customer and highly recommend AeroSport Power if you have the option. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "flutewitch" <flutewitch(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: New engine > > I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine > or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a > second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an > RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. > But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm > looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > > Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: New engine
Date: Aug 24, 2005
Bill, I spent several hours over several days talking with the engine builders at Oshkosh. I needed to understand my options for my RV-7A. I don't need the engine yet, maybe next year, but since I was their I needed to do some research. I spoke with four of the major engine builders there (Superior, Aerosport Power, Penn Yan, Matt.) All were knowledgeable, but Bart at Aerosport power stood out. He handled all my questions (many of them naive) well. His engine knowledge was outstanding. I must have spoken with him for over an hour. He seemed to be the most flexible engine builder out there. One important question I asked each engine builder was when and how long their warranties were. Most have a 1 year warranty but Aerosport has a 3 year. But most importantly when does it start. Many of the engine builders said at first startup and or within 6 months of purchasing. I know from experience that it takes a lot of time to finish up the cowling and other systems after the engine is installed. In fact it may take years depending on life's changes. However Bart was the only engine builder to address this issue. He mentioned he would prefer to see the engine started soon after purchase, but understood the builder's issue (he is an RV builder) and offer storage/picking options to help with this. Many of the engine builders just repeated the warranty starts within 6 months and would address even the storage/picking options. Aerosport power offers 4 different engine colors at no extra charge, others offer only one color. In summary, Aerosport power (Bart) has convinced me that they are the right engine builder for my RV. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: New engine Bill, I doubt you'd go wrong with either. But you asked for perspective, so I'll toss mine in... I had AeroSport Power do the build-up on my IO-360. Absolutely fantastic engine, I gotta say that first. But anyway, when I did my first engine start, the prop didn't cycle. (Long story short, I just didn't have enough RPM in. But...) I called and spoke to Bart, and he wanted to rule out simple things first but was willing to send me tools and instruments in order to monitor crankcase & oil pressures and this and that. Hard to describe, because much of what he was talking about was way over my head. The point is that his support has been incredible. AeroSport Power stands behind their work and you're not "out the door" once the engine ships. They take good care of you. Another couple of examples... The IO-360 with horizontal induction really needs a sniffle valve. I didn't have a Lycoming parts manual at this point in the build (everybody should!) and called up Bart to find out the part #. Instead of giving me the part #, they just dropped one in the mail for me. Same deal for the gasket & cover on the vacuum pump pad. I called and asked what the part numbers were, and they just dropped 'em in the mail instead. Oh...and how about this... My engine came with hoses, fittings, restrictor fittings, etc. Don't know if all AeroSport engines come like this, but does Superior build the engine "complete" like this? Maybe so, but something to consider. I know other builders whose engines came from other shops (which shall remain nameless), and upon checking timing, idle mixture, etc. they were all off. When I checked these things on my engine, they were dead on, zero tolerance (in my estimation). This engine has over 600 hours on it now and it just runs like a friggin' champ. I'm extremely confident in AeroSport Power's ability to build a great engine. I'm an extremely happy customer and highly recommend AeroSport Power if you have the option. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "flutewitch" <flutewitch(at)cox.net> To: Subject: RV7-List: New engine > > I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine > or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a > second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an > RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. > But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm > looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > > Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Flap pushrod cutout
Date: Aug 24, 2005
> Don't cut out the slot for the flap push rod until after you have > installed the wings and flaps. This is the time to determine where the > slot will go. The small hole is a guide where the steps if used will go. No, that's a different hole. There is an oblong hole in the side skin where the longeron is. There's a pilot hole for the steps. But, "willco" on the "don't cut it now" advice. And thanks Bob St. Paul Don't cut out the slot for the flap push rod until after you have installed the wings and flaps. This is the time to determine where the slot will go. The small hole is a guide where the steps if used will go. No, that's a different hole. There is an oblong hole in the side skin where the longeron is. There's a pilot hole for the steps. But, "willco" on the "don't cut it now" advice. And thanks Bob St. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2005
From: TylerB <tylerii(at)infoave.net>
Subject: Re: New engine
Depends on where you are and whether you will have electronic ignition. AeroSport are great people to work with and build great engines but the freight to the East Coat is outta sight from Kamloops Canada.....As to Superior...great engines but thay cannot run up a built enginje on there test stand if it does not have mags.....if the engine has electronic ignition then they send the engine out to eithe Eagle or PennYan to do the test stand runs...obviously there is freight costs involved Tyler B RV7A N537TM flutewitch wrote: > >I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine >or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a >second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an >RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. >But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm >looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > >Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: New engine
Date: Aug 24, 2005
......agree with Norman. At the Lockhart, Texas airport, we have Aero Sport engines in an RV-7, a 7A, a 9A, and an 8...plus an IO-540 about to be hung on a 10. My 7A has an O-360 with 10 to 1 pistons and Light Speed ignition on one side. I told Bart I wanted my engine built with ECI parts rather than Superior. A recent article in Flying Mag really complemented ECI on their new method of coating cylinders to eliminate corrosion. Bart and Sue are super to work with. Chuck Imken N735RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Norman Younie Subject: Re: RV7-List: New engine You will be very hard pressed to find a better company to deal with. I have had three engines from them and a fourth ordered. Bart knows his stuff and won't lead you astray. Ask Jon Johanson about his engines he has got from Bart. Cheers Norman flutewitch wrote: > >I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine >or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a >second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an >RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. >But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm >looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > >Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: New engine
Date: Aug 24, 2005
Don't think that's true today. Bart has modified his test stand and can run at least some EI systems. Just got mine with P-Mag and Bart said it ran nicely. He did not have that capability last winter and I had him hold the engine until he got his test stand modified. If it concerns you, check with Bart to be sure. Just received but have not run a XP360 assembled by Bart so can't say much other than it really looks great and ran nicely at Barts place. Thanks Bill S 7a fuse panel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TylerB Subject: Re: RV7-List: New engine Depends on where you are and whether you will have electronic ignition. AeroSport are great people to work with and build great engines but the freight to the East Coat is outta sight from Kamloops Canada.....As to Superior...great engines but thay cannot run up a built enginje on there test stand if it does not have mags.....if the engine has electronic ignition then they send the engine out to eithe Eagle or PennYan to do the test stand runs...obviously there is freight costs involved Tyler B RV7A N537TM flutewitch wrote: > >I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine >or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a >second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has an >RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. >But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm >looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > >Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2005
From: TylerB <tylerii(at)infoave.net>
Subject: Re: New engine
Yes Bart can run the EI on test stand but Superior cannot Bill Schlatterer wrote: > >Don't think that's true today. Bart has modified his test stand and can run >at least some EI systems. Just got mine with P-Mag and Bart said it ran >nicely. He did not have that capability last winter and I had him hold the >engine until he got his test stand modified. If it concerns you, check with >Bart to be sure. > >Just received but have not run a XP360 assembled by Bart so can't say much >other than it really looks great and ran nicely at Barts place. > >Thanks Bill S >7a fuse panel > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TylerB >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com.Gecko/20030208.Netscape/7.02 >Subject: Re: RV7-List: New engine > > >Depends on where you are and whether you will have electronic ignition. >AeroSport are great people to work with and build great engines but the >freight to the East Coat is outta sight from Kamloops Canada.....As to >Superior...great engines but thay cannot run up a built enginje on there >test stand if it does not have mags.....if the engine has electronic >ignition then they send the engine out to eithe Eagle or PennYan to do >the test stand runs...obviously there is freight costs involved >Tyler B RV7A N537TM > >flutewitch wrote: > > > >> >>I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine >>or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a >>second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has >> >> >an > > >>RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. >>But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm >>looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time >> >>Thanks Bill RV 7 builder >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Blakey" <gblakey(at)vic.australis.com.au>
Subject: Re: New engine
Date: Aug 26, 2005
Gents, Interesting to note Teledyne Mattituck who can supply their TMX or Superior product are also run their engines in the test stand with any type of ignition / injection intake setup including FADEC. I have found Mahlon Russell's service to be outstanding up to and including lengthy phone calls to me in Australia to assist with my engine purchase decision. I am sure Bart has undertaken the same with his customers, though don't discount other suppliers of these wonderfull engines. Regards Greg Blakey (RV-7A finishing Australia) ----- Original Message ----- From: "TylerB" <tylerii(at)infoave.net> Subject: [S] Re: RV7-List: New engine > > Yes Bart can run the EI on test stand but Superior cannot > > Bill Schlatterer wrote: > > > > >Don't think that's true today. Bart has modified his test stand and can run > >at least some EI systems. Just got mine with P-Mag and Bart said it ran > >nicely. He did not have that capability last winter and I had him hold the > >engine until he got his test stand modified. If it concerns you, check with > >Bart to be sure. > > > >Just received but have not run a XP360 assembled by Bart so can't say much > >other than it really looks great and ran nicely at Barts place. > > > >Thanks Bill S > >7a fuse panel > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TylerB > >To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com.Gecko/20030208.Netscape/7.02 > >Subject: Re: RV7-List: New engine > > > > > > > >Depends on where you are and whether you will have electronic ignition. > >AeroSport are great people to work with and build great engines but the > >freight to the East Coat is outta sight from Kamloops Canada.....As to > >Superior...great engines but thay cannot run up a built enginje on there > >test stand if it does not have mags.....if the engine has electronic > >ignition then they send the engine out to eithe Eagle or PennYan to do > >the test stand runs...obviously there is freight costs involved > >Tyler B RV7A N537TM > > > >flutewitch wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >>I was wondering if any one has a comment on Aero Sport Power for an engine > >>or Superior. I know Aero Sport uses Superior parts so why should I go to a > >>second party rather than by direct from superior. I have a friend who has > >> > >> > >an > > > > > >>RV 6 with an Aero sport engine and is very happy with it and there service. > >>But the same engine is less expensive through Superior. In either case I'm > >>looking at about $26,000.00 so I want to do this right the first time > >> > >>Thanks Bill RV 7 builder > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: Elevator Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 25, 2005
I built the "bending brake" for the Elevator TE's and there is no mention if there is supposed to be some space between the boards of the brake. In fact when you look at the manual it looks like the boards are sitting flush with each other. Should there be some gap between the boards of my bending brake? Or.Are the TE edges that sharp? Thanks.. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2005
From: Slgmjg1(at)cs.com
Subject: Elevator Trailing Edge
Scott: The boards go togather with no gap between them. When you put the part in it to squeez the trailing edge it will work fine. On one of the drawings it showes what the radius of the trailing edge is suppose to look like. Good luck and have fun. "Scott R. Shook" wrote: > >I built the "bending brake" for the Elevator TE's and there is no mention if >there is supposed to be some space between the boards of the brake. In fact >when you look at the manual it looks like the boards are sitting flush with >each other. > >Should there be some gap between the boards of my bending brake? > >Or.Are the TE edges that sharp? > >Thanks.. > >Scott > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2005
From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Trailing Edge
Scott. My break was spaced the width of the door hinges that I used ( 1/8 th inch) I put a 1/8 wood dowel down the trailing edge. Used duck tape to secure the outboard and inboard edges of the elevator to the bottom bending break board. Slowly but with authority lowered the top board of the break down on the elevator. I would check to make sure about 1/2 way plus through the process that I wasn't destorying the trailing edge of the elevator. Push some more. When I thought I was done disassembled the elevator from the break. Clecoed it together and oh so sad poor fit. Back to the Break....................After three of these interation I just really bent that elevator nearly flat. It came out perfect. I also had the trailing edge of the elevator back against the back portion of the break. My .00000000000000000000002 worth . Good Luck and enjoy Frank @ SLC and SGU "Scott R. Shook" wrote: I built the "bending brake" for the Elevator TE's and there is no mention if there is supposed to be some space between the boards of the brake. In fact when you look at the manual it looks like the boards are sitting flush with each other. Should there be some gap between the boards of my bending brake? Or.Are the TE edges that sharp? Thanks.. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Elevator Trailing Edge
I believe there is mention somewhere of using a 1/8" diameter rod to maintain a radius. Lay the rod in the bend and tape it down. Then make the bend. If you bend it without the radius, the bend will break. Dave Nellis At the same point, making the bending brake. --- Slgmjg1(at)cs.com wrote: > > Scott: The boards go togather with no gap between > them. When you put the part in it to squeez the > trailing edge it will work fine. On one of the > drawings it showes what the radius of the trailing > edge is suppose to look like. Good luck and have > fun. > "Scott R. Shook" wrote: > > > > > >I built the "bending brake" for the Elevator TE's > and there is no mention if > >there is supposed to be some space between the > boards of the brake. In fact > >when you look at the manual it looks like the > boards are sitting flush with > >each other. > > > >Should there be some gap between the boards of my > bending brake? > > > >Or.Are the TE edges that sharp? > > > >Thanks.. > > > >Scott > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com>
Subject: Elevator Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 26, 2005
I just bent my TE's the other day. I clamped 2 2x8s together, no space between, and used a 1/8" wooden dowel inside the TE while bending. It took about 45 minutes to build the brake, less than 5 minutes to bend the TEs. ;-) Most importantly they look and fit great. Pics here... http://www.rv7factory.com/log/050821.html Happy Building, Brad -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nellis Subject: RE: RV7-List: Elevator Trailing Edge I believe there is mention somewhere of using a 1/8" diameter rod to maintain a radius. Lay the rod in the bend and tape it down. Then make the bend. If you bend it without the radius, the bend will break. Dave Nellis At the same point, making the bending brake. --- Slgmjg1(at)cs.com wrote: > > Scott: The boards go togather with no gap between > them. When you put the part in it to squeez the > trailing edge it will work fine. On one of the > drawings it showes what the radius of the trailing > edge is suppose to look like. Good luck and have > fun. > "Scott R. Shook" wrote: > > > > > >I built the "bending brake" for the Elevator TE's > and there is no mention if > >there is supposed to be some space between the > boards of the brake. In fact > >when you look at the manual it looks like the > boards are sitting flush with > >each other. > > > >Should there be some gap between the boards of my > bending brake? > > > >Or.Are the TE edges that sharp? > > > >Thanks.. > > > >Scott > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Blakey" <gblakey(at)vic.australis.com.au>
Subject: Re: Elevator Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 27, 2005
Scott, The trailing edges of the elevators and ailerons are 3/16". To ensure this radius is accurate, you can insert the shank only of a 3/16" drill bit, (not the fluted end) at each end of the bend and squeeze the trailing edge down until this is achieved. You will note the Flaps on the RV7 are a larger radius shown on a side view on one of the drawings from memory. The same prcess can be used though larger diameter drill bits are required to achieve these bends. Happy Building, Greg Blakey ----- Original Message ----- From: <Slgmjg1(at)cs.com> Subject: [S] RE: RV7-List: Elevator Trailing Edge > > Scott: The boards go togather with no gap between them. When you put the part in it to squeez the trailing edge it will work fine. On one of the drawings it showes what the radius of the trailing edge is suppose to look like. Good luck and have fun. > "Scott R. Shook" wrote: > > > > >I built the "bending brake" for the Elevator TE's and there is no mention if > >there is supposed to be some space between the boards of the brake. In fact > >when you look at the manual it looks like the boards are sitting flush with > >each other. > > > >Should there be some gap between the boards of my bending brake? > > > >Or.Are the TE edges that sharp? > > > >Thanks.. > > > >Scott > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 2005
Subject: Exit air smoothing
Listers: I'm building a -6a, but trying to incorporate as many new mods as possible from the -7a's. I understand there is an air-smoothing roll-type thing at the bottom of the firewall where the cowling air exits above the stacks. Does anyone know the part number and plan # that shows this? If so, would be much appreciated... Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR RV6a one flying, one *finishing* ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2005
From: docblee <docblee(at)streamyx.com>
Subject: Re: tap for tie down ring?
The set comes with taps with different flute lengths. It is important to start with the one with the shortest flute, changing upwards till the last one with the full length flute. This step up will ensure the screw thread is cut parallel to the hole drilled. Boon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
"rv7-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: Katrina avoidance
In the past, we've sheltered a few planes from the Gulf coast when they have been relocated to avoid hurricanes. Given the building strength of this storm, if anyone needs a place for self & family we have 2 spare bedrooms & lots of floor space. We are in Jackson MS & will likely get some wind but we'll be free of flooding. (Some hangar space, as well.) I'm confident that our neighbors would be willing to help, as well. Charlie 601.879.9596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2005
From: "Daniel Storer" <dstorer(at)okwifi.com>
Subject: Re: Filing rivets
How does the SuperFil hold up to metal movement like twisting. I have a few places that could use some touch-up, but once painted I would hate to see it pop off. Any experience with bonding issues? Dan S. 7A, working second wing -------Original Message------- From: LarryRobertHelming Date: 08/06/05 20:20:47 Subject: Re: RV7-List: Filing rivets SuperFil will be one product that will work with filling rivet depressions and with your paints and later on with fiber glass. It is epoxy based. Great stuff, not too expensive and easy to work with but requires 24 hours to dry and setup. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies ----- Original Message ----- > > I have a few areas I want to fill countersubk rivet heads - what are > people > using to fill these areas. I will use PPG primer and PPG polyurethane for > linished paint. > Appeciate any suggestions. > > Mary Beth > RV7A just turned fuselage canoe over. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2005
Subject: compressors
From: Connie Giammarco <choices46(at)alltel.net>
I am just starting out with the building process and am in the tool buying stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 hp compressor. Is this enough for construction of the rv 7? Can i use die grinders with this etc. I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: compressors
Date: Aug 31, 2005
Here is what I bought. I bought a Home Depot compressor that is 32 Gal in capacity oil-less (if you can stand the noise). I don't mind it too much because the garage is insulated. It still will come on quite a bit when I am drilling skins. Good thing is that it run's on 110 so I did not need to run a 220v outlet for it. In looking at homedepot.com it looks like that model is replaced by this one Internet/Catalog 168916 Just my .02 Scott Closing out last elevator -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Connie Giammarco Subject: RV7-List: compressors I am just starting out with the building process and am in the tool buying stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 hp compressor. Is this enough for construction of the rv 7? Can i use die grinders with this etc. I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: compressors
Date: Aug 31, 2005
Dennis, While it'll probably work for riveting (rivet gun or pneumatic squeezer) and some drilling, it'll probably be hurtin' a bit when you do any real drilling of non match-drilled stuff or any die grinder stuff at all. Or any painting/priming if you happen to do any of that. Not trying to tell you to spend more money, but a 30-gal or 60-gal would be a better investment imho. Also keep in mind that oiled compressors tend to be considerably quieter than oil-free versions (like the Sears POS that I have). )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Connie Giammarco" <choices46(at)alltel.net> Subject: RV7-List: compressors > > I am just starting out with the building process and am in the tool buying > stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 hp compressor. Is > this > enough for construction of the rv 7? Can i use die grinders with this > etc. > I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. > dennis > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: compressors
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2005
I have a 15 gallon 5 hp compressor and it just about runs the air drill and paint sprayer, it definitely lacks lustre when it comes to a die grinder. The rivet squeezer and gun run OK. I would say your 8 gallon one would be less than optimal at best - if you can return it, that might be best. g > > > I am just starting out with the building process and am in the > tool buying > stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 hp > compressor. Is this > enough for construction of the rv 7? Can i use die grinders > with this etc. > I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. > dennis > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: compressors
Date: Aug 31, 2005
Most anything will get you by. The air drills, rivet guns, and squeezers don't take that much air. OTOH, that sounds like an odd combination of high HP and low storage. Or maybe you meant 80 gallon? That'd be more like it. If it's really 8 gallons, it just means the motor will run a lot as the air in the tank quickly runs out. What cfm rating is the compressor? Again, people sometimes get all wrapped up in the air compressor choice, but most any air compressor will get your plane built. If you want it for more than that, then that's a different story. Beware the oil-free compressors. They will work OK, but they are extremely LOUD and quite obnoxious. But, they will work fine for building your plane. brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Connie Giammarco Subject: RV7-List: compressors I am just starting out with the building process and am in the tool buying stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 hp compressor. Is this enough for construction of the rv 7? Can i use die grinders with this etc. I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. dennis -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <wlull(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: compressors
Date: Aug 31, 2005
Pretty small for the likes of a die grinder. They use air like there is no tomorrow. I had a 20 gallon five horse 110 volt and would have to let it catch up... alot. Worked ok for drilling and riveting etc. Finally talked the other nine pilots in the hanger complex into plumbing the place with a 7 horse 220 volt 60 gallon compressor. Best move I have made so far (at least for me). Plus I put it in a room by itself so I'm not going deaf anymore!! > > From: Connie Giammarco <choices46(at)alltel.net> > Date: 2005/08/31 Wed PM 05:19:41 EDT > To: > Subject: RV7-List: compressors > > > I am just starting out with the building process and am in the tool buying > stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 hp compressor. Is this > enough for construction of the rv 7? Can i use die grinders with this etc. > I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. > dennis > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: compressors
Date: Aug 31, 2005
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&p id=00919541000 I heart my compressor. Oiled. Quiet. (Quiet for a compressor anyway.) No need to build fancy shmancy sound isolation chambers. These days most of the stores push the oil-less variety in the sub-35 gallon range, but Sears let me run some tools on several compressors right there in the store. The difference in sound and performance for the oiled versus oil-less made the decision easy. The shrieking sound of the oil-less variety would drive me mad. Mine is 25 gallons, and has so far been more than adequate for die grinding, priming, etc. Coincidentally, I have a 10-gallon oiled/piston compressor that I think was used to make the ark. They last forever. I don't think you can buy an oiled compressor in that size range anymore. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: compressors Dennis, While it'll probably work for riveting (rivet gun or pneumatic squeezer) and some drilling, it'll probably be hurtin' a bit when you do any real drilling of non match-drilled stuff or any die grinder stuff at all. Or any painting/priming if you happen to do any of that. Not trying to tell you to spend more money, but a 30-gal or 60-gal would be a better investment imho. Also keep in mind that oiled compressors tend to be considerably quieter than oil-free versions (like the Sears POS that I have). )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Connie Giammarco" <choices46(at)alltel.net> Subject: RV7-List: compressors > --> > > I am just starting out with the building process and am in the tool > buying stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 hp > compressor. Is this enough for construction of the rv 7? Can i use > die grinders with this etc. > I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. > dennis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2005
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: compressors
Had to wait until I got home to reply to this thread. I have a Campbell-Hausfeld 20 Gallon, 5HP (claimed, probably 1.5-2.5 actual), Oiled, twin-cylinder compressor. I have it in a separate room from my shop, and plumbed over using a 5/8" line. In my shop, I have a portable 10 Gallon air tank plumbed in-line on quick-release fittings. This gives me the extra 10 gallons of capacity (so the compressor cycles less often), and somewhat counters the effect of having a long line from the compressor to my tools. It works well for me. -Rob On 17:45:33 2005-08-31 "Don Hall" wrote: > > http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical> TOOL&p > id=00919541000 > > I heart my compressor. Oiled. Quiet. (Quiet for a compressor anyway.) > No need to build fancy shmancy sound isolation chambers. These days > most of the stores push the oil-less variety in the sub-35 gallon > range, but Sears let me run some tools on several compressors right > there in the store. The difference in sound and performance for the > oiled versus oil-less made the decision easy. The shrieking sound of > the oil-less variety would drive me mad. Mine is 25 gallons, and > has so far been more than adequate for die grinding, priming, etc. > > Coincidentally, I have a 10-gallon oiled/piston compressor that I > think was used to make the ark. They last forever. I don't think you > can buy an oiled compressor in that size range anymore. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan > Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: compressors > > > Dennis, > > While it'll probably work for riveting (rivet gun or pneumatic > squeezer) and some drilling, it'll probably be hurtin' a bit when you > do any real drilling of non match-drilled stuff or any die grinder > stuff at all. Or any painting/priming if you happen to do any of > that. > > Not trying to tell you to spend more money, but a 30-gal or 60-gal > would be a better investment imho. > > Also keep in mind that oiled compressors tend to be considerably > quieter than oil-free versions (like the Sears POS that I have). > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Connie Giammarco" <choices46(at)alltel.net> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: compressors > > > > --> > > > > I am just starting out with the building process and am in the > > tool buying stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 > > hp compressor. Is this enough for construction of the rv 7? Can > > i use die grinders with this etc. > > I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. > > dennis > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: wing wiring conduit
Date: Aug 31, 2005
OK team, I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision. Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. This link takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. There's another photo after this one slightly closer up. http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC04746 I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is 1-1/16". I didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" hole drilling bit. It tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out for me. The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work the pvc in. Is hole location OK? I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4" pvc adequate to task? Thanks in advance, ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 wings http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html ****************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: wing wiring conduit
Date: Aug 31, 2005
That'll work. Ideal location imho. PVC versus corrugated, doesn't matter much. Whatever floats your boat. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit > > OK team, > > I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision. > > Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. This link > takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. There's another photo > after this one slightly closer up. > http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC04746 > > I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is 1-1/16". I > didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" hole drilling bit. It > tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out for me. > The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work the pvc > in. > > Is hole location OK? > I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4" pvc > adequate to task? > > Thanks in advance, > > ****************************************** > Don Hall > N517DG (registered) > rv7 wings > http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html > ****************************************** > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
Date: Sep 01, 2005
Don, I see from your photos that you countersunk the screw holes before installing the nutplates. This could be a mistake (I've been there), depends on how well Vans centered the holes relative to the respective nutplate rivet holes. In my case a few screw holes were off center by as much as 1/16" which of course would make putting the screw in quite difficult. I consequently had to rework the screw holes. To do this, I put a JB Weld equivalent in the bad screw holes and countersunk the screw holes a second time using the nutplate as a pilot guide. This should be OK as the JB Weld is sandwiched in between the spar and the wing tank skin. How well the JB Weld is holding up should be examined during long inspections, once every two years or every 200 hours. That's my $0.02. Michele Delsol RV8 Fuselage By the way - should it be nutplate or platenut? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:48 AM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit > > > OK team, > > I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision. > > Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. This > link > takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. There's another > photo > after this one slightly closer up. > http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC04746 > > I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is 1-1/16". I > didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" hole drilling bit. > It > tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out for > me. > The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work the pvc > in. > > Is hole location OK? > I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4" > pvc > adequate to task? > > Thanks in advance, > > ****************************************** > Don Hall > N517DG (registered) > rv7 wings > http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html > ****************************************** > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
Date: Sep 01, 2005
Michele Delsol: The predrilled holes for the NUTPLATES (not platenuts) in the main spars are precisely drilled and located. We should prepare and use a pilot piece behind the spar with precisely located holes that aligns and holds our countersinking tool bit so it stays exactly located and does not tend to wander around which could let it get out of place and cause the problem you described. We should not be considering using JB Weld on the main spar. I suggest you contact Vans about this problem before you close up your wing. You are right that this would require close monitoring and inspections. I too experienced what you describe on nutplate drilling where the holes are not predrilled (which is not the case in the main spar that we get from Vans). But not any more. To position and drill correctly you first drill the hole where you want it for the screw that goes into the nutplate and use the proper size drill so the screw just perfectly fits in the hole. Then screw on a nutplate through your drilled hole. Hold the nutplate in place closely and drill one of the rivet holes and cleco it. Then drill the other rivet hole. Remove the nutplate, expand the screw hole to proper size and debur. Now do your countersinking/dimpling for the rivets and rivet on the nutplate. Then if you need to countersink the screw hole do so now -- The nutplate already riveted on will hold your countersink tool so it stays in the exact correct location. No more alignment problems or removing more material than necessary. Good luck. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours ----- Original Message ----- From: <owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates > > Don, > > I see from your photos that you countersunk the screw holes before > installing the nutplates. This could be a mistake (I've been there), > depends > on how well Vans centered the holes relative to the respective nutplate > rivet holes. In my case a few screw holes were off center by as much as > 1/16" which of course would make putting the screw in quite difficult. I > consequently had to rework the screw holes. To do this, I put a JB Weld > equivalent in the bad screw holes and countersunk the screw holes a second > time using the nutplate as a pilot guide. This should be OK as the JB Weld > is sandwiched in between the spar and the wing tank skin. How well the JB > Weld is holding up should be examined during long inspections, once every > two years or every 200 hours. > > That's my $0.02. > > Michele Delsol > RV8 Fuselage > By the way - should it be nutplate or platenut? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- >> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:48 AM >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit >> >> >> OK team, >> >> I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision. >> >> Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. This >> link >> takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. There's another >> photo >> after this one slightly closer up. >> http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC04746 >> >> I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is 1-1/16". I >> didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" hole drilling bit. >> It >> tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out for >> me. >> The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work the pvc >> in. >> >> Is hole location OK? >> I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4" >> pvc >> adequate to task? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> ****************************************** >> Don Hall >> N517DG (registered) >> rv7 wings >> http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html >> ****************************************** >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2005
From: al.herron(at)Aerojet.com (Herron, Al)
Subject: Re: compressors
You can get by with the 3-hp model, but I think you'd be happier with on of the big uprights (unless you need to move it a lot). The 5- to 10-hp models with a tank in the 60-gallon range will save you a bunch of time waiting for the tank to recharge (although a die grinder can even deplete one of these in a hurry). I purchased a 7-hp (or maybe it's 5-hp, not sure), 60-gallon upright from the local orange big-box hardware store for about $400, was well worth the money. It's been very dependable so far (2 years) and much quieter than my old oil-less compressor, not only less noisy when it runs but it doesn't run nearly as much trying to keep up. Al Herron RV-7A fussing with the panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
Date: Sep 01, 2005
Larry, The pre drilled holes for the nutplate screws before I touched them were pre drilled by Vans off center on some of them, not all. To correct for this, Vans' instructions, which I did not follow, clearly say to install the nutplates first and to then countersink so that the nutplate should guide the pilot as the countersink digs deeper into the spar's flange. It might be that Vans has now corrected the problem. Michle > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:54 PM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates > > > > Michele Delsol: The predrilled holes for the NUTPLATES (not platenuts) in > the main spars are precisely drilled and located. We should prepare and > use > a pilot piece behind the spar with precisely located holes that aligns and > holds our countersinking tool bit so it stays exactly located and does not > tend to wander around which could let it get out of place and cause the > problem you described. We should not be considering using JB Weld on the > main spar. I suggest you contact Vans about this problem before you close > up your wing. You are right that this would require close monitoring and > inspections. > > I too experienced what you describe on nutplate drilling where the holes > are > not predrilled (which is not the case in the main spar that we get from > Vans). But not any more. To position and drill correctly you first drill > the hole where you want it for the screw that goes into the nutplate and > use > the proper size drill so the screw just perfectly fits in the hole. Then > screw on a nutplate through your drilled hole. Hold the nutplate in place > closely and drill one of the rivet holes and cleco it. Then drill the > other rivet hole. Remove the nutplate, expand the screw hole to proper > size > and debur. Now do your countersinking/dimpling for the rivets and rivet > on > the nutplate. Then if you need to countersink the screw hole do so now -- > The nutplate already riveted on will hold your countersink tool so it > stays > in the exact correct location. No more alignment problems or removing > more > material than necessary. Good luck. > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates > > > > > > Don, > > > > I see from your photos that you countersunk the screw holes before > > installing the nutplates. This could be a mistake (I've been there), > > depends > > on how well Vans centered the holes relative to the respective nutplate > > rivet holes. In my case a few screw holes were off center by as much as > > 1/16" which of course would make putting the screw in quite difficult. I > > consequently had to rework the screw holes. To do this, I put a JB Weld > > equivalent in the bad screw holes and countersunk the screw holes a > second > > time using the nutplate as a pilot guide. This should be OK as the JB > Weld > > is sandwiched in between the spar and the wing tank skin. How well the > JB > > Weld is holding up should be examined during long inspections, once > every > > two years or every 200 hours. > > > > That's my $0.02. > > > > Michele Delsol > > RV8 Fuselage > > By the way - should it be nutplate or platenut? > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- > >> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall > >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:48 AM > >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > >> Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit > >> > >> > >> OK team, > >> > >> I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision. > >> > >> Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. This > >> link > >> takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. There's another > >> photo > >> after this one slightly closer up. > >> http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC04746 > >> > >> I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is 1-1/16". I > >> didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" hole drilling > bit. > >> It > >> tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out for > >> me. > >> The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work the > pvc > >> in. > >> > >> Is hole location OK? > >> I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4" > >> pvc > >> adequate to task? > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> > >> ****************************************** > >> Don Hall > >> N517DG (registered) > >> rv7 wings > >> http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html > >> ****************************************** > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com>
Subject: compressors
Date: Sep 01, 2005
While I certainly agree with the bigger is better approach, one thing to consider is power requirements. Some of the larger compressors require 220V, which may not be a problem when building in the garage at home, but 220V may not be available to you when you move to a hangar. At the city owned hangars here, 220V is not an option, so I was careful not to paint myself into a corner or I would have been buying a second compressor for the airport. -Brad -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herron, Al Subject: Re: RV7-List: compressors You can get by with the 3-hp model, but I think you'd be happier with on of the big uprights (unless you need to move it a lot). The 5- to 10-hp models with a tank in the 60-gallon range will save you a bunch of time waiting for the tank to recharge (although a die grinder can even deplete one of these in a hurry). I purchased a 7-hp (or maybe it's 5-hp, not sure), 60-gallon upright from the local orange big-box hardware store for about $400, was well worth the money. It's been very dependable so far (2 years) and much quieter than my old oil-less compressor, not only less noisy when it runs but it doesn't run nearly as much trying to keep up. Al Herron RV-7A fussing with the panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
Date: Sep 01, 2005
Here's the method I used (ref Checkoway): I created a nutplate "template" using scrap aluminum. For each countersink, I cleco'd this in place under the flange and used the template as a guide for drilling. So even if the hole from Van's is slightly off, the lead on the countersink is follwing the template. I didn't check every hole, but the ones I did check fit nicely. I'll check with a few screws more tonight. Doing the c'sinking without the template resulted in a choppy c'sink because the hole is too large to keep the countersink perfectly on center. One thing I found necessary to amend from the Checkoway directions was that I had to double up some of the thicker scrap aluminum because the countersink can take just enough metal off your template to render it ineffective. Using my doubled nutplate template resulted in shiny nice looking c'sinks. ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 empennage http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html ****************************************** -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] Subject: RE: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates Larry, The pre drilled holes for the nutplate screws before I touched them were pre drilled by Vans off center on some of them, not all. To correct for this, Vans' instructions, which I did not follow, clearly say to install the nutplates first and to then countersink so that the nutplate should guide the pilot as the countersink digs deeper into the spar's flange. It might be that Vans has now corrected the problem. Michle > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:54 PM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates > > > > Michele Delsol: The predrilled holes for the NUTPLATES (not > platenuts) in the main spars are precisely drilled and located. We > should prepare and use a pilot piece behind the spar with precisely > located holes that aligns and holds our countersinking tool bit so it > stays exactly located and does not tend to wander around which could > let it get out of place and cause the problem you described. We > should not be considering using JB Weld on the main spar. I suggest > you contact Vans about this problem before you close up your wing. > You are right that this would require close monitoring and > inspections. > > I too experienced what you describe on nutplate drilling where the > holes are not predrilled (which is not the case in the main spar that > we get from Vans). But not any more. To position and drill correctly > you first drill the hole where you want it for the screw that goes > into the nutplate and use the proper size drill so the screw just > perfectly fits in the hole. Then screw on a nutplate through your > drilled hole. Hold the nutplate in place > closely and drill one of the rivet holes and cleco it. Then drill the > other rivet hole. Remove the nutplate, expand the screw hole to > proper size and debur. Now do your countersinking/dimpling for the > rivets and rivet on the nutplate. Then if you need to countersink the > screw hole do so now -- The nutplate already riveted on will hold your > countersink tool so it stays in the exact correct location. No more > alignment problems or removing more material than necessary. Good > luck. > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates > > > > > > Don, > > > > I see from your photos that you countersunk the screw holes before > > installing the nutplates. This could be a mistake (I've been there), > > depends on how well Vans centered the holes relative to the > > respective nutplate rivet holes. In my case a few screw holes were > > off center by as much as 1/16" which of course would make putting > > the screw in quite difficult. I consequently had to rework the screw > > holes. To do this, I put a JB Weld equivalent in the bad screw holes > > and countersunk the screw holes a > second > > time using the nutplate as a pilot guide. This should be OK as the > > JB > Weld > > is sandwiched in between the spar and the wing tank skin. How well > > the > JB > > Weld is holding up should be examined during long inspections, once > every > > two years or every 200 hours. > > > > That's my $0.02. > > > > Michele Delsol > > RV8 Fuselage > > By the way - should it be nutplate or platenut? > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- > >> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall > >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:48 AM > >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > >> Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit > >> > >> > >> OK team, > >> > >> I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision. > >> > >> Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. > >> This link takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. > >> There's another photo after this one slightly closer up. > >> http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC0 > >> 4746 > >> > >> I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is > >> 1-1/16". I didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" > >> hole drilling > bit. > >> It > >> tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out > >> for me. > >> The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work > >> the > pvc > >> in. > >> > >> Is hole location OK? > >> I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4" > >> pvc > >> adequate to task? > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> > >> ****************************************** > >> Don Hall > >> N517DG (registered) > >> rv7 wings > >> http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html > >> ****************************************** > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: compressors
Date: Sep 02, 2005
I also use a couple of old LP gas 100 pound (maybe about 40 gal each?) tanks mounted in parallel as additional air storage brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Prior (rv7) Subject: RE: RV7-List: compressors Had to wait until I got home to reply to this thread. I have a Campbell-Hausfeld 20 Gallon, 5HP (claimed, probably 1.5-2.5 actual), Oiled, twin-cylinder compressor. I have it in a separate room from my shop, and plumbed over using a 5/8" line. In my shop, I have a portable 10 Gallon air tank plumbed in-line on quick-release fittings. This gives me the extra 10 gallons of capacity (so the compressor cycles less often), and somewhat counters the effect of having a long line from the compressor to my tools. It works well for me. -Rob On 17:45:33 2005-08-31 "Don Hall" wrote: > > http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical> TOOL&p > id=00919541000 > > I heart my compressor. Oiled. Quiet. (Quiet for a compressor anyway.) > No need to build fancy shmancy sound isolation chambers. These days > most of the stores push the oil-less variety in the sub-35 gallon > range, but Sears let me run some tools on several compressors right > there in the store. The difference in sound and performance for the > oiled versus oil-less made the decision easy. The shrieking sound of > the oil-less variety would drive me mad. Mine is 25 gallons, and > has so far been more than adequate for die grinding, priming, etc. > > Coincidentally, I have a 10-gallon oiled/piston compressor that I > think was used to make the ark. They last forever. I don't think you > can buy an oiled compressor in that size range anymore. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan > Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: compressors > > > Dennis, > > While it'll probably work for riveting (rivet gun or pneumatic > squeezer) and some drilling, it'll probably be hurtin' a bit when you > do any real drilling of non match-drilled stuff or any die grinder > stuff at all. Or any painting/priming if you happen to do any of > that. > > Not trying to tell you to spend more money, but a 30-gal or 60-gal > would be a better investment imho. > > Also keep in mind that oiled compressors tend to be considerably > quieter than oil-free versions (like the Sears POS that I have). > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Connie Giammarco" <choices46(at)alltel.net> > To: > Subject: RV7-List: compressors > > > > --> > > > > I am just starting out with the building process and am in the > > tool buying stage. I recently purchased an 8 gallon capacity, 3 > > hp compressor. Is this enough for construction of the rv 7? Can > > i use die grinders with this etc. > > I still have time to return this one if i need more capacity. > > dennis > > > > > > -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2005
From: al.herron(at)Aerojet.com (Herron, Al)
Subject: Re: compressorscompressors
You're right, mine does require 220V, I hadn't considered that. In lieu of a bigger compressor, just increasing tank capacity might be helpful. The biggest aggravation for me is having to stop in the middle of a job (painting, for example) to wait for the tank to recharge. Getting a bigger tank, or plumbing a second tank into the system, would give you more working time between recharges; it would still take the same amount of time overall to pressurize, but you could go work on something else while that's happening. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Dear Listers, I will be taking the Matronics Web Server down for a few hours today, Tuesday September 6 2005 for a chassis upgrade. Archive browsing and searching along with subscription services will be unavailable for be processed normally during the upgrade. Please check the Matronics System Status Page for updates (although this page resides on the web server and won't be available during the upgrade): http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/ Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2005
Subject: ExperCraft build log
From: "Robert Riggen" <rob(at)riggen.org>
Fellow builders, This is an invite to those who need a method for creating a project log and Web site. Even if you've already started your log using another system this one is worth a look. ExperCraft Simple Log is free for builders and is a great way to create a comprehensive log and Web site. It's very easy to use. http://www.expercraft.com Enjoy! Rob -- Rob Riggen building a Vans RV7 http://websites.expercraft.com/rriggen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <fairings4u(at)cox.net>
Subject: new products from Fairings-Etc
Date: Sep 11, 2005
This is an update of products I've added. I have the following new items for sale now. Stainless Steel Wheel Pant Brackets Tip Top Canopy Latch Wing Root Fairings for the RV 6, 6A, 7 and 7A. Check out my web site. www.fairings-etc.com Bob Snedaker bob@fairings-etc.com www.fairings-etc.com 623 203 9795 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <fairings4u(at)cox.net>
Subject: new products from Fairings-Etc
Date: Sep 11, 2005
This is an update of products I've added. I have the following new items for sale now. Stainless Steel Wheel Pant Brackets Tip Top Canopy Latch Wing Root Fairings for the RV 6, 6A, 7 and 7A. Check out my web site. www.fairings-etc.com Bob Snedaker bob@fairings-etc.com www.fairings-etc.com 623 203 9795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Panel cut outs
Date: Sep 14, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hi all, I have all the radio trays showing up in the next couple of days, but I don't have the radios coming because I can't quite afford them just yet. John Stark suggested I just buy the trays & harness and slide the radios in later in later. Sounds good except that Mr Stark told me all the trays (I have a mix of Garmin,Icom and PMA products) should be flush with the FRONT of the instrument panel. I note from Mr Checkoways' site that his Garmin trays were 6.3" wide and I really do not want to cut the hole in the panel wider than 6.25" plus paint. The only way this will work of course is if the trays do not come thru the panel, i.e are flush with the backside. Any thoughts? I am thinking of securing the angles to the panel with c/s screws so I could remove and remake them if I wanted to adjust the radio in/out position. Not ideal (will see the screws) but that's the compromise to keep $10k in my pocket for the time being. Thanks Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Panel cut outs
Date: Sep 14, 2005
----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> Subject: RV7-List: Panel cut outs > > > Hi all, > > I have all the radio trays showing up in the next couple of days, but I > don't have the radios coming because I can't quite afford them just yet. > > John Stark suggested I just buy the trays & harness and slide the radios > in later in later. > > Sounds good except that Mr Stark told me all the trays (I have a mix of > Garmin,Icom and PMA products) should be flush with the FRONT of the > instrument panel. > > I note from Mr Checkoways' site that his Garmin trays were 6.3" wide and > I really do not want to cut the hole in the panel wider than 6.25" plus > paint. > > The only way this will work of course is if the trays do not come thru > the panel, i.e are flush with the backside. > > Any thoughts? > (((((((((You are right on the right path. You want the trays to attach to > a frame work you build and attach to the back side of the front panel. I > riveted mine on and the trays are screwed to the frame work. All you see > up front is the radios. It is removeable. Cannot be seen from the front. > Neat. In the interest to keep it tight, you might be like me and keep it > too tight. I had to do some serious filing after I got to inserting the > radios. Looks good now however. ))))))))))))))) > I am thinking of securing the angles to the panel with c/s screws so I > could remove and remake them if I wanted to adjust the radio in/out > position. Not ideal (will see the screws) but that's the compromise to > keep $10k in my pocket for the time being. > > Thanks > > Frank > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued, is always beyond our grasp, but which, if one sits quietly, may light upon you." Nathanial Hawthorn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Panel cut outs
Date: Sep 14, 2005
> I am thinking of securing the angles to the panel with c/s screws so I > could remove and remake them if I wanted to adjust the radio in/out > position. Not ideal (will see the screws) but that's the compromise to > keep $10k in my pocket for the time being. Good call. I'll be doing the same next time...using screws/nutplates instead of rivets. My current panel can't be removed without doing some surgery (albeit pretty minor) on my radio trays. If I had used screws instead of rivets, it would be a relatively quick no-brainer to get the panel out. Next time -- homemade modular, and screws on the tray supports. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (622 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: Aircraft Registration fees and sales tax
Date: Sep 21, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0236 1.0000 -4.1506 Fellow builders, I am a few years away from completing my RV-7 but I wanted to find more information about some of the aircraft registration costs others are paying for the RV's. In addition if there is a one time sales tax payment required to register the aircraft. I had heard that here in Arizona they will asses the aircraft and charge you a sales tax if no sales taxes were paid on or all parts of the kit project. Since most of us are purchasing our kits and engines from out of state, there isn't any state sales tax charged when purchasing. I don't want to start any rumors, just trying to get the facts. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Aircraft Registration fees and sales tax
Date: Sep 21, 2005
The reason why there is no sales tax on out of state purchases is due to the interstate commerce laws that prohibit any state from impeding the trade between people of different states. A tax would do that. I don't know what AZ does. In Indiana they charge sales tax on any out of state purchases plus a small registration fee. In light of what a plane costs in total, it was like paying for the finishing kit or an auto pilot. It is a slippery slope once you get to paying for engine, prop, and instruments. Don't think about it, just pay it, move on and start flying.........that's what I did. Now I spend money on gas! Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 63 hours flying and still grinning ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued, is always beyond our grasp, but which, if one sits quietly, may light upon you." Nathaniel Hawthorne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: Aircraft Registration fees and sales tax > > Fellow builders, > > I am a few years away from completing my RV-7 but I wanted to find more > information about some of the aircraft registration costs others are > paying for the RV's. In addition if there is a one time sales tax payment > required to register the aircraft. I had heard that here in Arizona they > will asses the aircraft and charge you a sales tax if no sales taxes were > paid on or all parts of the kit project. Since most of us are purchasing > our kits and engines from out of state, there isn't any state sales tax > charged when purchasing. > > I don't want to start any rumors, just trying to get the facts. > > Paul > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: State Taxes
Date: Sep 22, 2005
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
Paul, I suggest you check your Secretary of State website for info, or talk to some local EAA'ers. I live in Michigan, and here we are expected to pay a "use tax", equal to the sales tax, on any purchases made out-of-state. The state income tax form has a place to add this item. Obviously the compliance rate is rather low. However, since eventually the state will find out about my plane when it is registered (the Feds dutifully notify the State), I plan to declare and pay the tax on the big ticket items each year, rather than one big bill at the end. I don't know how the state assesses value on a finished homebuilt plane, but my hope is that they will accept my voluntary declarations as complete. Of course if they assess it higher than my declarations, I'll owe the difference. Then, of course, is the yearly state registration fee. MI charges a penny a pound of gross weight. Each state is different, so your mileage WILL vary :-) Dennis Glaeser 7A - Wings From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> Subject: RV7-List: Aircraft Registration fees and sales tax Fellow builders, I am a few years away from completing my RV-7 but I wanted to find more information about some of the aircraft registration costs others are paying for the RV's. In addition if there is a one time sales tax payment required to register the aircraft. I had heard that here in Arizona they will asses the aircraft and charge you a sales tax if no sales taxes were paid on or all parts of the kit project. Since most of us are purchasing our kits and engines from out of state, there isn't any state sales tax charged when purchasing. I don't want to start any rumors, just trying to get the facts. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2005
From: "Hollis Walter" <ardhlmsr(at)eocc.com>
Subject: re[21]
"Ci-iallis Sof-tabs" is better than Pfizer V-iiaggrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guarantes 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effectts at all - Boost and increase se-xual perfoormance - Haarder e-rectiiions and quick recharge - Proven and c-ertified by e-xperts and d-octors - only $2 per tabs - Special offeer! These prices - are valid u-ntil 30th of September ! Cllick hereee: http://gsullivan-consulting.com depositor inhale hundredth perth seethe sari dreyfuss flagging wappinger pam classificatory demented fine dyeing brusque theretofore amateurish equipotent knowledge stu protozoan buxom siva nose dance inequitable coolheaded mung braggart document goldwater sanitate doldrum alive aura eclectic debility dogtooth argue fine barycentric mushroom atlantes ernie immobile bough shitepoke bayesian presentational whup anteroom debby accumulate grenade ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Aileron bracket question
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Here's a "little bitty" question! I am preparing to rivet the outboard aileron bracket to the rear spar. I was checking the rivet callout (DWG 10A-Detail A) and noticed that the bottom rivet is supposed to be AN426AD-7 (flush) vs. the 4 above it which are AN470AD-7's? When I checked my other wing I obviously missed this and made the whole row AD470AD-7s! For the life of me I can't see a reason for that one rivet needing to be a flush rivet? TIA Allen Fulmer RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand) Eggenfellner Subaru H6 on order N808AF reserved Alexander City, AL 256-329-2001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron bracket question
To stop the ailron leading edge from dragging the top of the rivet. Allen Fulmer wrote: > >Here's a "little bitty" question! > >I am preparing to rivet the outboard aileron bracket to the rear spar. I >was checking the rivet callout (DWG 10A-Detail A) and noticed that the >bottom rivet is supposed to be AN426AD-7 (flush) vs. the 4 above it which >are AN470AD-7's? When I checked my other wing I obviously missed this and >made the whole row AD470AD-7s! For the life of me I can't see a reason for >that one rivet needing to be a flush rivet? > >TIA > >Allen Fulmer >RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand) >Eggenfellner Subaru H6 on order >N808AF reserved >Alexander City, AL >256-329-2001 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Aileron bracket question
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Allen When you place your aileron on the wing you might see the need for the flush head rivet. Frank @ SGU and SLC >From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" >Subject: RV7-List: Aileron bracket question >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:09:24 -0500 > > >Here's a "little bitty" question! > >I am preparing to rivet the outboard aileron bracket to the rear spar. I >was checking the rivet callout (DWG 10A-Detail A) and noticed that the >bottom rivet is supposed to be AN426AD-7 (flush) vs. the 4 above it which >are AN470AD-7's? When I checked my other wing I obviously missed this and >made the whole row AD470AD-7s! For the life of me I can't see a reason for >that one rivet needing to be a flush rivet? > >TIA > >Allen Fulmer >RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand) >Eggenfellner Subaru H6 on order >N808AF reserved >Alexander City, AL >256-329-2001 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Aileron bracket question
Date: Sep 24, 2005
The aileron is attached on the first wing and the clearance is a good 1/8" to 3/16" when the aileron is full up. The max up (I don't have the aileron stop installed yet)is determined by the bolt head attaching A406-1 Outboard aileron bracket to the aileron spar hitting W-414PP Outboard Aileron Hinge Brkt. Assy. as seen on dwg 13A. I don't think it is a problem in this case. Allen Fulmer RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand) Eggenfellner Subaru H6 on order N808AF reserved Alexander City, AL 256-329-2001 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Stringham Subject: RE: RV7-List: Aileron bracket question Allen When you place your aileron on the wing you might see the need for the flush head rivet. Frank @ SGU and SLC >From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" >Subject: RV7-List: Aileron bracket question >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:09:24 -0500 > > >Here's a "little bitty" question! > >I am preparing to rivet the outboard aileron bracket to the rear spar. I >was checking the rivet callout (DWG 10A-Detail A) and noticed that the >bottom rivet is supposed to be AN426AD-7 (flush) vs. the 4 above it which >are AN470AD-7's? When I checked my other wing I obviously missed this and >made the whole row AD470AD-7s! For the life of me I can't see a reason for >that one rivet needing to be a flush rivet? > >TIA > >Allen Fulmer >RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand) >Eggenfellner Subaru H6 on order >N808AF reserved >Alexander City, AL >256-329-2001 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Aileron bracket question
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Allen, I missed one side of mine also. Someone pointed out my one round head rivet to me after I had 40 hours on the plane and had no problems with rub between rivet and aileron....after doing some pretty abrupt yanking and banking for 40 hours. I called Van's about it. The flat head was put there to give a little more clearance between the river head and leading edge of the aileron. They basically said no problem. To drill out a round head and replace it with a flat head could possibly cause a worse problem than the slight chance of a rub on the aileron leading edge. You sure don't want to weaken something as critical as an aileron hinge bracket by wallowing out the hole when you drill out the round head to replace it. I left mine alone and have over 100 hours on it now and will fly it to Las Vegas from San Antonio tomorrow. Chuck Imken N735RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Allen Fulmer Subject: RV7-List: Aileron bracket question Here's a "little bitty" question! I am preparing to rivet the outboard aileron bracket to the rear spar. I was checking the rivet callout (DWG 10A-Detail A) and noticed that the bottom rivet is supposed to be AN426AD-7 (flush) vs. the 4 above it which are AN470AD-7's? When I checked my other wing I obviously missed this and made the whole row AD470AD-7s! For the life of me I can't see a reason for that one rivet needing to be a flush rivet? TIA Allen Fulmer RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand) Eggenfellner Subaru H6 on order N808AF reserved Alexander City, AL 256-329-2001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2005
From: Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com>
Subject: extra parts left over
I am finishing up the second wing panel of my RV-7 and have two identical parts left over. Can't find them on the plans. Any RV-7 or RV-8 builder recognize them from either the empennage or wing parts? These parts are .060 aluminum sheet with blue vinyl. http://www.newtech.com/unknown_part_002.jpg Steve Eberhart RV-7A, fuselage ships October 24th ________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: extra parts left over
Date: Sep 27, 2005
Steve, I am an RV8 builder - they look like the plates used on the flaps on which the flap rods connect. On the 8, we had to make them from scratch - they are asymmetric. Michle RV8 - Fuselage > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eberhart > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:19 PM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: extra parts left over > > > I am finishing up the second wing panel of my RV-7 and have two > identical parts left over. Can't find them on the plans. Any RV-7 or > RV-8 builder recognize them from either the empennage or wing parts? > These parts are .060 aluminum sheet with blue vinyl. > > http://www.newtech.com/unknown_part_002.jpg > > Steve Eberhart > RV-7A, fuselage ships October 24th > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: Phil Birkelbach <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: extra parts left over
I have those same parts left over. I just figured that I made them somewhere along the way. If you figure out what they are let me know. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB - Phase I http://www.myrv7.com owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com wrote: > >Steve, > >I am an RV8 builder - they look like the plates used on the flaps on which >the flap rods connect. On the 8, we had to make them from scratch - they are >asymmetric. > >Michle >RV8 - Fuselage > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- >>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eberhart >>Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:19 PM >>To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: RV7-List: extra parts left over >> >> >>I am finishing up the second wing panel of my RV-7 and have two >>identical parts left over. Can't find them on the plans. Any RV-7 or >>RV-8 builder recognize them from either the empennage or wing parts? >>These parts are .060 aluminum sheet with blue vinyl. >> >>http://www.newtech.com/unknown_part_002.jpg >> >>Steve Eberhart >>RV-7A, fuselage ships October 24th >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: extra parts left over
I've looked at the plans nothing jumps out... and in my inventory of misc parts without part #'s again nothing. I do not believe I received anything that resembles the pictured parts with my wing kit. Darrell Phil Birkelbach wrote: I have those same parts left over. I just figured that I made them somewhere along the way. If you figure out what they are let me know. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB - Phase I http://www.myrv7.com owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com wrote: > >Steve, > >I am an RV8 builder - they look like the plates used on the flaps on which >the flap rods connect. On the 8, we had to make them from scratch - they are >asymmetric. > >Michle >RV8 - Fuselage > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list- >>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eberhart >>Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:19 PM >>To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: RV7-List: extra parts left over >> >> >>I am finishing up the second wing panel of my RV-7 and have two >>identical parts left over. Can't find them on the plans. Any RV-7 or >>RV-8 builder recognize them from either the empennage or wing parts? >>These parts are .060 aluminum sheet with blue vinyl. >> >>http://www.newtech.com/unknown_part_002.jpg >> >>Steve Eberhart >>RV-7A, fuselage ships October 24th >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ryan Severance" <ryanseverance(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: extra parts left over
Date: Sep 27, 2005
I thought those parts looked familiar; I still have them (or something very close) in my inventory. Mine are tagged with F 804 L. I haven't checked to see where it goes, but I hope this helps you. Ryan Severance RV-7 fuselage Bismarck, ND ----Original Message Follows---- From: Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com> Subject: RV7-List: extra parts left over Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:19:21 -0500 I am finishing up the second wing panel of my RV-7 and have two identical parts left over. Can't find them on the plans. Any RV-7 or RV-8 builder recognize them from either the empennage or wing parts? These parts are .060 aluminum sheet with blue vinyl. http://www.newtech.com/unknown_part_002.jpg Steve Eberhart RV-7A, fuselage ships October 24th ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Slobovia Outernational Pulled Pork Extravaganza
Party Time!! The "Lower Slobovia Garden Club" will be serving BBQ pulled pork to any flyers/drivers within range at Noon on October 22. Plan your flight to MS71, Slobovia Outernational Airport, just north of Jackson MS (Memphis Sectional). Jackson approach is 125.25 for vectors, if needed, & our field freq is 122.75. Plan to land to the south, wind permitting (4800 ft of grass) & taxi to the south end of the field. Bedrooms, couches & floor space available if anyone needs to overnight with us. For more info or driving directions, email me or call me at 601.879.9596. Come on down! Charlie England flying RV-4, -7 in the oven Slobovia Outernational (MS71) 601.879.9596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: extra parts left over
F 804 L is a seat belt attach lug. Frank @ SGU and SLC Ryan Severance wrote: I thought those parts looked familiar; I still have them (or something very close) in my inventory. Mine are tagged with F 804 L. I haven't checked to see where it goes, but I hope this helps you. Ryan Severance RV-7 fuselage Bismarck, ND ----Original Message Follows---- From: Steve Eberhart Subject: RV7-List: extra parts left over Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:19:21 -0500 I am finishing up the second wing panel of my RV-7 and have two identical parts left over. Can't find them on the plans. Any RV-7 or RV-8 builder recognize them from either the empennage or wing parts? These parts are .060 aluminum sheet with blue vinyl. http://www.newtech.com/unknown_part_002.jpg Steve Eberhart RV-7A, fuselage ships October 24th --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: "Jon Elford" <rmkelfords(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: extra parts left over
Steve, I can't help you on the parts, but I noticed your signature says that your fuselage is shipping Oct. 24, 2005. It looks like our planes will be twins as my fuselage and wings are shipping the same day... Cool I can't wait!! I'm almost out of empennage parts to rivet together after 4 weeks of building. Jon Elford RV-7 N294CD Elevators/Misc. Empennage Wrap-Up ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eberhart" <steve(at)newtech.com> Subject: RV7-List: extra parts left over > > I am finishing up the second wing panel of my RV-7 and have two > identical parts left over. Can't find them on the plans. Any RV-7 or > RV-8 builder recognize them from either the empennage or wing parts? > These parts are .060 aluminum sheet with blue vinyl. > > http://www.newtech.com/unknown_part_002.jpg > > Steve Eberhart > RV-7A, fuselage ships October 24th > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2005
From: Bud Newhall <RV-6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Builder assistance available
Greetings You want an RV but don't have the time to build it. I can help. I am a machinist by trade. I completed an RV-6 in 2200 hrs. (no prepunced holes) and assisted on 2 others. I am available to work on a project full time. I am located in Lodi, CA. Bud Newhall RV-6(at)comcast.net 209-334-2911 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <i.perry(at)lipogen.co.il>
Subject: Re: Panel cut outs
Date: Sep 30, 2005
HI Dan where is your web site ? i.perry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Panel cut outs > >> I am thinking of securing the angles to the panel with c/s screws so I >> could remove and remake them if I wanted to adjust the radio in/out >> position. Not ideal (will see the screws) but that's the compromise to >> keep $10k in my pocket for the time being. > > Good call. I'll be doing the same next time...using screws/nutplates > instead of rivets. > > My current panel can't be removed without doing some surgery (albeit > pretty > minor) on my radio trays. If I had used screws instead of rivets, it > would > be a relatively quick no-brainer to get the panel out. > > Next time -- homemade modular, and screws on the tray supports. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (622 hours) > http://www.rvproject.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2005
From: vthills4(at)AOL.com
Subject: for sale: rv-7(7A) emp. kit
I have a rv7(7A) emp. kit for sale . Brand new, no work performed on any parts. parts taken from boxes only for inventory. Motivated seller. e-mail me at vthills4(at)aol.com or (802)-236-4267. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: DRDT-2 dimpling tool at the Copperstate Fly-In Oct 7-8th
Date: Oct 02, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.1887 1.0000 -1.9730 Fellow RV builders, The ExperimentalAero DRDT-2 dimpling tool (experimentalaero.com) will at the Avery Tool booth at the CopperState Fly-in (Casa Grande, AZ) next weekend Oct 7-8th. Stop by and give it a test drive. Sincerely, Paul Merems ExperimentalAero ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: DRDT-2 dimpling tool at the Copperstate Fly-In Oct 7-8th
Date: Oct 02, 2005
It is the best of the best....makes dimpling a breeze Frank @ SGU and SLC >From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: , "RV10 Group" >Subject: RV7-List: DRDT-2 dimpling tool at the Copperstate Fly-In Oct 7-8th >Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 15:55:21 -0700 INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.1887 1.0000 >-1.9730 > > >Fellow RV builders, > >The ExperimentalAero DRDT-2 dimpling tool (experimentalaero.com) will at >the Avery Tool booth at the CopperState Fly-in (Casa Grande, AZ) next >weekend Oct 7-8th. Stop by and give it a test drive. > >Sincerely, > >Paul Merems >ExperimentalAero > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)AOL.com
Date: Oct 04, 2005
Subject: MT Propeller 183-59 blade exchange offer
Hi All, MT Propeller and Less Drag Products, Inc. is offering a blade exchange program for the Lycoming 360 3 blade MT Propeller. If you have the MTV-12, or MTV-18, 3 blade MT Propeller on your Lycoming 360 engine, you can exchange your present 183-59 blades for the new 183-59b blades. You might be interested in this offer if you would like to remove the mid range RPM restriction on your Lycoming 360 engine, and increase your cruise speed by about 5 mph. MT Propeller is offering to exchange your present three 183-59 blades with a new set of 183-59b blades for about the same price as a single 183-59b blade. (The list price for a single replacement 183-59b blade is $2,430.) Less Drag Products, Inc. will coordinate the actual blade set replacement for your propeller, based on your location and replacement blade set availability. Please contact Less Drag Products, Inc. directly at _jim(at)lessdrag.com_ (mailto:jim(at)lessdrag.com) to obtain a schedule and cost estimate. Regards, Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. (805) 499-8646 FAX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Photo Posting Enabled on RV6-List...
RV7 Listers, As of this morning, I have enabled limited posting of various picture formats to the RV7-List. Extensions allowed include: jpg, gif, bmp, txt, xls, pdf, and doc. Generally, these are all pretty safe and don't carry viruses of any kind. A word of caution when posting pictures, however. Double check the size of the pictures you are posting. This includes both the picture dimensions (X x Y) but also the total filesize (MB). If you take pictures right out of your digital camera, it is likely they will be on the order of 1-4MB each. If you post 10, 3MB photos to the List, you will be sending 30MB plus encoding (usually a 1.5x gain in size) to the list, that will have to be redistributed to all members on the list. That can be a lot of data! Use a program like Photoshop to reduce the dimensions of the photo to something on the order of 640x480 and use medium or better compression when saving the file so that each picture is roughly 50k to 100k in size. Let me know what you think of this addition to the RV7-List. Remember that the PhotoShare is also still available and generally the best way to share photos of an archival nature. Matt Dralle Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Photo Posting Enabled on RV6-List...
Sorry, Subject line should have read "Photo Posting Enabled on RV7-List...". Matt At 02:01 PM 10/9/2005 Sunday, you wrote: >RV7 Listers, > >As of this morning, I have enabled limited posting of various >picture formats to the RV7-List. Extensions allowed include: jpg, >gif, bmp, txt, xls, pdf, and doc. Generally, these are all pretty >safe and don't carry viruses of any kind. > >A word of caution when posting pictures, however. Double check the >size of the pictures you are posting. This includes both the >picture dimensions (X x Y) but also the total filesize (MB). If you >take pictures right out of your digital camera, it is likely they >will be on the order of 1-4MB each. If you post 10, 3MB photos to >the List, you will be sending 30MB plus encoding (usually a 1.5x >gain in size) to the list, that will have to be redistributed to all >members on the list. That can be a lot of data! > >Use a program like Photoshop to reduce the dimensions of the photo >to something on the order of 640x480 and use medium or better >compression when saving the file so that each picture is roughly 50k >to 100k in size. > >Let me know what you think of this addition to the >RV7-List. Remember that the PhotoShare is also still available and >generally the best way to share photos of an archival nature. > >Matt Dralle > > >Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email >http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Photo Posting Enabled on RV6-List...
Matt Dralle wrote: > > > RV7 Listers, > > As of this morning, I have enabled limited posting of various picture > formats to the RV7-List. Extensions allowed include: jpg, gif, bmp, > txt, xls, pdf, and doc. Generally, these are all pretty safe and > don't carry viruses of any kind. > > A word of caution when posting pictures, however. Double check the > size of the pictures you are posting. This includes both the picture > dimensions (X x Y) but also the total filesize (MB). If you take > pictures right out of your digital camera, it is likely they will be > on the order of 1-4MB each. If you post 10, 3MB photos to the List, > you will be sending 30MB plus encoding (usually a 1.5x gain in size) > to the list, that will have to be redistributed to all members on the > list. That can be a lot of data! > > Use a program like Photoshop to reduce the dimensions of the photo to > something on the order of 640x480 and use medium or better compression > when saving the file so that each picture is roughly 50k to 100k in size. > > Let me know what you think of this addition to the RV7-List. Remember > that the PhotoShare is also still available and generally the best way > to share photos of an archival nature. > > Matt Dralle I picked this up from another list. If you use Windows XP, here's a link to what has to be the world's simplest picture size reducer (It's that rare commodity: useful & efficient Microsoft software). http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Scroll down to 'image resizer' & download it. Install the software. The software will be invisible but will add an option to the popup menu that appears when you right-click on a file. After installation, use your favorite file management software (Windows Explorer works fine) to find the picture you want to resize. Right-click on the picture file, then click 'resize image' on the popup menu. Select the size you want (640x480 works well for email) & click 'ok'. A new image file will be created using the same file name but with 'small' added to the file name. A 500k image file can be reduced to around 40k using this program. Even if you go up in size a notch, it will still reduce download time by around 80% & those of us forced to use dialup will be very grateful. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2005
From: Greg C <mk325ef(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
Hi, I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the trailing edge of the rudder. Thanks, Greg --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 10, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
I think you can use almost anything as long as it doesn't set up too fast and sticks to aluminium I used Vulkem 116 caulking ($2 a tube at home depot and others). Its what pretty much all building contractors use for sealing just about anything and sticks like ...just say it sticks very well and would presumably be much cheaper than JB weld unless you have a bunch of it aleady.. The downfall with Vulkem is it takes a few days to set up properly...I just left mine clamped for a week while I worked on something else. Have fun Frank ________________________________ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg C Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder Hi, I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the trailing edge of the rudder. Thanks, Greg ________________________________ <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt36035/*http://music.yah oo.com/unlimited/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 10, 2005
I didn't use a thing and got my TE to .05" run-out max. Scott _____ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg C Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder Hi, I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the trailing edge of the rudder. Thanks, Greg _____ <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo.com /unlimited/> Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 10, 2005
I think the important question besides ability to "stick" is the long term corrosion effects if any. Anyone know about JB Weld and thin aircraft aluminum sheet? Bevan _____ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder I think you can use almost anything as long as it doesn't set up too fast and sticks to aluminium I used Vulkem 116 caulking ($2 a tube at home depot and others). Its what pretty much all building contractors use for sealing just about anything and sticks like ...just say it sticks very well and would presumably be much cheaper than JB weld unless you have a bunch of it aleady.. The downfall with Vulkem is it takes a few days to set up properly...I just left mine clamped for a week while I worked on something else. Have fun Frank _____ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg C Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder Hi, I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the trailing edge of the rudder. Thanks, Greg _____ <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.c om/unlimited/> Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 10, 2005
You can, but you dont need to. I, and a few others, did not use anything except rivets on the trailing edge. If you use anything at all, I suggest Pro Seal or RTV. JB Weld sets up in 5 minutestoo fast. Chuck Imken N735RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg C Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder Hi, I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the trailing edge of the rudder. Thanks, Greg _____ <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.c om/unlimited/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 10, 2005
My 2 cents -- DO NOT use RTV, it's not paintable. Whatever you use, a little is gonna ooze out. Make sure you can paint it! Paint & silicone don't get along. I had a folded rudder, but on the RV-10 rudder that I built I used a thin smear of proseal. FWIW, it worked great. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Imken To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:14 PM Subject: RE: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder You can, but you don't need to. I, and a few others, did not use anything except rivets on the trailing edge. If you use anything at all, I suggest Pro Seal or RTV. JB Weld sets up in 5 minutes-too fast. Chuck Imken N735RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg C Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:53 PM To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder Hi, I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the trailing edge of the rudder. Thanks, Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
I clamped an aluminum angle to the rudder just inside of the the trailing edge rivet line. I did not use Proseal or any other sealant. My rudder is less than .050 out of straight. I may smear some Proseal on the trailing edge before paint just to fill between the layers. Haven't decided for sure yet. Dave Nellis N410DN (Res.) --- Imken wrote: > You can, but you dont need to. I, and a few > others, did not use anything > except rivets on the trailing edge. If you use > anything at all, I suggest > Pro Seal or RTV. JB Weld sets up in 5 minutestoo > fast. > Chuck Imken > N735RV > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On > Behalf Of Greg C > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:53 PM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder > > Hi, > > I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the > trailing edge of the rudder. > > Thanks, > Greg > _____ > > songs. Try it free. > <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.c > om/unlimited/> > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Oct 10, 2005
Background question ... what problem is all the sticky stuff (Pro-Seal, Silcone goop, epoxy, etc.) solving ? g > > > I clamped an aluminum angle to the rudder just inside > of the the trailing edge rivet line. I did not use > Proseal or any other sealant. My rudder is less than > ..050 out of straight. I may smear some Proseal on the > trailing edge before paint just to fill between the > layers. Haven't decided for sure yet. > > Dave Nellis > N410DN (Res.) > > > --- Imken wrote: > > > You can, but you dont need to. I, and a few > > others, did not use anything > > except rivets on the trailing edge. If you use > > anything at all, I suggest > > Pro Seal or RTV. JB Weld sets up in 5 minutestoo > > fast. > > Chuck Imken > > N735RV > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On > > Behalf Of Greg C > > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:53 PM > > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder > > > > Hi, > > > > I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the > > trailing edge of the rudder. > > > > Thanks, > > Greg > > _____ > > > > songs. Try it free. > > > <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt6035/*http://music.yahoo.c > > om/unlimited/> > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> > > > > > > > > -- __g__ Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 10, 2005
> Background question ... what problem is all the sticky stuff > (Pro-Seal, Silcone goop, epoxy, etc.) solving ? You can't cleco the thing while you rivet it. The proseal keeps everything in alignment while you rivet. I built the RV-10 rudder (same trailing edge as the modern -7/-9 rudder) and had all my rivets oriented the same way. I didn't use any angle or anything like that. Just prosealed it, then riveted it a few days later. It came out perfectly straight, no puckering at the back end either. The key was to take it slowly and go in phases. Partially set every 4th or 5th rivet, then go back and finish them. At the risk of work-hardening the rivets, it prevents bowing, I believe, to go in phases. Heck, that's what the instructions said to do, so why not? I think some people advocate clecoing it to an angle, alternating orientations of rivets, something like that (is that in the RV-7 rudder instructions?). If you use a construction method that allows you to keep it clecoed while you rivet, then I think the goop is not a necessity in the least. Just my take on it. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 11, 2005
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
That is exactly what I did and it worked great. You do have to work quickly, but if you're prepared it isn't a problem. I used a couple of angles drilled so that I could cleco both ends and one in the middle, and put some spring clamps along the length. You don't need a lot - just enough to hold it for the riveting. Dennis Glaeser 7A Wings --------------------------------------------- From: Greg C <mk325ef(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder Hi, I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the trailing edge of the rudder. Thanks, Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: J.B. Weld on rudder
On 10/11 9:04, Glaeser, Dennis A wrote: > That is exactly what I did and it worked great. You do have to work > quickly, but if you're prepared it isn't a problem. I used a couple of > angles drilled so that I could cleco both ends and one in the middle, > and put some spring clamps along the length. You don't need a lot - > just enough to hold it for the riveting. I used JBW as well but if I had to do it over I would not use JBW again. It's simply too brittle when cured. I could see the JBW cracking while riveting. I'll be using proseal next time around. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com Flying! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net>
Subject: Re: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 11, 2005
Rudder flutter/!vibration/disintegration!/panic state/terminal fate! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> Subject: RE: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder > > > Background question ... what problem is all the sticky stuff > (Pro-Seal, Silcone goop, epoxy, etc.) solving ? > > g > >> >> >> I clamped an aluminum angle to the rudder just inside >> of the the trailing edge rivet line. I did not use >> Proseal or any other sealant. My rudder is less than >> ..050 out of straight. I may smear some Proseal on the >> trailing edge before paint just to fill between the >> layers. Haven't decided for sure yet. >> >> Dave Nellis >> N410DN (Res.) >> >> >> --- Imken wrote: >> >> > You can, but you dont need to. I, and a few >> > others, did not use anything >> > except rivets on the trailing edge. If you use >> > anything at all, I suggest >> > Pro Seal or RTV. JB Weld sets up in 5 minutestoo >> > fast. >> > Chuck Imken >> > N735RV >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On >> > Behalf Of Greg C >> > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:53 PM >> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> > Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the >> > trailing edge of the rudder. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Greg >> > _____ >> > >> > songs. Try it free. >> > >> <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt6035/*http://music.yahoo.c >> > om/unlimited/> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> >> >> >> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > __g__ > > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com > Tel: 415 203 9177 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 12, 2005
Does sticky stuff on the rudder's trailing edge solve a problem?........beats me. I did not use any sticky stuff either and the trailing edge is straight, strong and looks better than the extra thickness caused by the sticky stuff. .....and for those of us who have painted our RVs, the trailing edge looks good. {;o) Check it out at the LOE fly-in this weekend. Chuck Imken RV-7A N735RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Subject: RE: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder Background question ... what problem is all the sticky stuff (Pro-Seal, Silcone goop, epoxy, etc.) solving ? g > > > I clamped an aluminum angle to the rudder just inside > of the the trailing edge rivet line. I did not use > Proseal or any other sealant. My rudder is less than > ..050 out of straight. I may smear some Proseal on the > trailing edge before paint just to fill between the > layers. Haven't decided for sure yet. > > Dave Nellis > N410DN (Res.) > > > --- Imken wrote: > > > You can, but you don't need to. I, and a few > > others, did not use anything > > except rivets on the trailing edge. If you use > > anything at all, I suggest > > Pro Seal or RTV. JB Weld sets up in 5 minutes-too > > fast. > > Chuck Imken > > N735RV > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On > > Behalf Of Greg C > > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:53 PM > > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder > > > > Hi, > > > > I am wondering if j.b. weld can be used on the > > trailing edge of the rudder. > > > > Thanks, > > Greg > > _____ > > > > songs. Try it free. > > > <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt6035/*http://music.yahoo.c > > om/unlimited/> > > > > > __________________________________ > > > _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> _-> > > -- __g__ Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Imken" <skikrazi(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: J.B. Weld on rudder
Date: Oct 12, 2005
I did cleco the trailing edge by clamping an angle and drilling through both angle and trailing edge skin.......and then alternated rivets......factory head, then back-rivet shop head, then factory head. The angle was worth the sacrifice to not have to fool with the Proseal. ....enjoyed enough of that while building the tanks. {;o) Chuck RV-7A N735RV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: J.B. Weld on rudder > Background question ... what problem is all the sticky stuff > (Pro-Seal, Silcone goop, epoxy, etc.) solving ? You can't cleco the thing while you rivet it. The proseal keeps everything in alignment while you rivet. I built the RV-10 rudder (same trailing edge as the modern -7/-9 rudder) and had all my rivets oriented the same way. I didn't use any angle or anything like that. Just prosealed it, then riveted it a few days later. It came out perfectly straight, no puckering at the back end either. The key was to take it slowly and go in phases. Partially set every 4th or 5th rivet, then go back and finish them. At the risk of work-hardening the rivets, it prevents bowing, I believe, to go in phases. Heck, that's what the instructions said to do, so why not? I think some people advocate clecoing it to an angle, alternating orientations of rivets, something like that (is that in the RV-7 rudder instructions?). If you use a construction method that allows you to keep it clecoed while you rivet, then I think the goop is not a necessity in the least. Just my take on it. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
Subject: KitLog Pro-first use
Date: Oct 15, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Fellow RV builders, I just installed KitLog Pro and started using it. I am finishing up my RV-7A fuselage and I have been less then diligent in entering daily progress in my Excel spread sheet that I was using as a building log. While I was up at the Copperstate Fly-in I passed by the KitLog booth and spent a few minutes with Paul Besing and I let him try to convince me why I should part with my money when I had my Excel log working. After a few minutes I realized that I could do more with the KitLog then my Excel spreadsheet log. I also realized that KitLog may just help me be more diligent with my entries. In addition the reports you can create will definitely help when it comes time to prepare for aircraft certification. I installed the program without incident and I was up and running. Now I can take all my digital photos and organize them in the log. This is something I couldn't do with my Excel spreadsheet. In addition I can post them to the KitLog website so others can see them or just for a second backup to my computer. The only things I wish it could do is while entering the data randomly pop-up inspirational messages like: "Your doing a great job" "Looks like a Grand Champion in the making" "Now you only have 29,999 rivets to go" "Your in the home stretch" "Measure twice cut once" Food for thought Paul Merems (RV-4/RV-7A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Paul Walter wrote: > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 > hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the > 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel > later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a > different configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter As long as the engines have the same 'type' (1 or 2) dynafocal mount, the mounting dimensions are the same from 320 through IO 360. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Thanks Charlie, A guy also told me once that his Superior version of the 180HP O360 actually dyno tested at 192 HP due to a different cam shaft that company uses. He also stated that the 200HP engine was quite a bit heavier and there for no advantage. His advice was Superior O or IO 360, 18OHP for best performance. Regards - Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Paul Walter wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp >> io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp >> model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and >> glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different >> configuration. >> Thanks guys >> Paul Walter > > As long as the engines have the same 'type' (1 or 2) dynafocal mount, the > mounting dimensions are the same from 320 through IO 360. > > Charlie > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 15, 2005
Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
The angle valve lyc has better bsfc than the other lyc engines. the Superior version might have improved porting using parallel valve heads & be nearly as good as the angle valve lyc, but I don't know whether that's true. You can get nearly 200 hp from a parallel valve lyc, but the bsfc isn't likely to be as good. No doubt, saving weight (& money) is good. Charlie Paul Walter wrote: > > Thanks Charlie, > > A guy also told me once that his Superior version of the 180HP O360 > actually dyno tested at 192 HP due to a different cam shaft that > company uses. He also stated that the 200HP engine was quite a bit > heavier and there for no advantage. His advice was Superior O or IO > 360, 18OHP for best performance. > > Regards - Paul Walter > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > >> >> >> Paul Walter wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >>> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the >>> 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change >>> to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake >>> snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the >>> 200hp a different configuration. >>> Thanks guys >>> Paul Walter >> >> >> As long as the engines have the same 'type' (1 or 2) dynafocal mount, >> the mounting dimensions are the same from 320 through IO 360. >> >> Charlie > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 17, 2005
Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew Olech" <olechap(at)comcast.net>
Subject: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Hi all, I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the hole rows in question 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed together and lined up perfectly 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and drawn-in relative hole centerlines. Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and no, it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these thick heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade the skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes per side that are effected. I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? 1. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make the bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the centerlines of the holes will come together closer. 2. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - I'll still get figure 8's) 3. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might look like hell under the HS) I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. More ideas? Help!! -Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 16, 2005
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment
Date: Oct 16, 2005
You need to bend the bulkhead flanges to match the tapering contour of the fuselage. I can see in your photos that they appear to be mostly "straight" rather than tapered. By getting the bulkhead flanges to match the fuselage shape, that should make a big difference. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Olech To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment Hi all, I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the hole rows in question 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed together and lined up perfectly 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and drawn-in relative hole centerlines. Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and no, it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these thick heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade the skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes per side that are effected. I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? 1.. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make the bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the centerlines of the holes will come together closer. 2.. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - I'll still get figure 8's) 3.. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might look like hell under the HS) I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. More ideas? Help!! -Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Hello Andy, This is a very common problem and one that Van's has recently addressed. The new aft bulkhead is no longer pre-punched.just order a replacement and match drill the aft bulkhead. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Olech Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment Hi all, I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the hole rows in question 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed together and lined up perfectly 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and drawn-in relative hole centerlines. Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and no, it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these thick heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade the skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes per side that are effected. I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? 1. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make the bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the centerlines of the holes will come together closer. 2. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - I'll still get figure 8's) 3. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might look like hell under the HS) I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. More ideas? Help!! -Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Here's another .. http://www.bpaengines.com/ Allen Barrett BPE, Inc. www.barrettprecisionengines.com <http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/> (918) 835-1089 phone I just toured their facility last week and got a first class tour that included looking at the IO-390X-A1E6 before assembly. All parts are Lycoming, including the roller cam assembly. Great people and excellent products. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/pressReleases/july02/ mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wilkie" <wilkie1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 16, 2005
Another place to find info about the IO390 is at: http://www.bpaengines.com/site.html. The engine is listed under their "products" section and includes a brief summary about the engine. Barrett makes some killer performance engines used by some of the most well known acro pilots around. Their prices may be higher but I doubt anyone could question their quality. Hope it helps........ Scott Wilkinson ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2005
From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment
Andy A few weeks back I had this same problem...PLUS.....The plus was there was a slight miss alignment of the flanges between the forward and aft potions of the bulkhead......But by the looks of your pictures it seems your fore / aft alignment is ok. Now for your problem: First try what Dan suggested. If that doesn't work go with the 426-4 rivets (1/8) I did and it came out fine. Frank at SGU and SLC Fuse under construction.....finish will be inventoried tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!Any body got Oh lets say about 30k for my FWF stuff Andrew Olech wrote: Hi all, Ive been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32 dia hole). Ive attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the hole rows in question 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed together and lined up perfectly 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and drawn-in relative hole centerlines. Thankfully, I havent riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet and no, it doesnt seem like riveting it together will help in any way these thick heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and dont seem to want to come together any closer, I dont want to persuade the skins with a hole punch I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes per side that are effected. I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make the bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter thus the centerlines of the holes will come together closer. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8 (this might not even help Ill still get figure 8s) Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might look like hell under the HS) I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. More ideas? Help!! -Andy --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/16/05
Date: Oct 17, 2005
Hi guys, As a first time builder, I was wondering if any one actually produces a DVD series that actually takes you through the building process step by step showing builders how to construct tye RV 7. thank you Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV7-List Digest Server" <rv7-list-digest(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV7-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/16/05 > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete RV7-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2005-10-16.html > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2005-10-16.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > RV7-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sun 10/16/05: 11 > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:34 AM - Re: Engine - cowling (Paul Walter) > 2. 07:39 AM - Re: Engine - cowling (Charlie England) > 3. 09:13 AM - Re: Engine - cowling (Dan Checkoway) > 4. 02:19 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (Paul Walter) > 5. 03:04 PM - F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (Andrew > Olech) > 6. 04:01 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (Dan Checkoway) > 7. 04:02 PM - Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (Dan > Checkoway) > 8. 05:17 PM - Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (William > Gill) > 9. 05:26 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (William Gill) > 10. 06:10 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (wilkie) > 11. 06:57 PM - Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (Frank > Stringham) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Thanks Dan, > I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. > I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in > Australia, > how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to > alter > the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. > > > Paul Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Charlie already covered the mount thing. > > I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get > into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once > a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at > http://www.vansairforce.net. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM > Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 > hp io > 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp > model > and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass > repair. > Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > The angle valve lyc has better bsfc than the other lyc engines. the > Superior version might have improved porting using parallel valve heads > & be nearly as good as the angle valve lyc, but I don't know whether > that's true. You can get nearly 200 hp from a parallel valve lyc, but > the bsfc isn't likely to be as good. > > No doubt, saving weight (& money) is good. > > Charlie > > Paul Walter wrote: > >> >> Thanks Charlie, >> >> A guy also told me once that his Superior version of the 180HP O360 >> actually dyno tested at 192 HP due to a different cam shaft that >> company uses. He also stated that the 200HP engine was quite a bit >> heavier and there for no advantage. His advice was Superior O or IO >> 360, 18OHP for best performance. >> >> Regards - Paul Walter >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" >> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:53 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >>> >>> >>> Paul Walter wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >>>> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the >>>> 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change >>>> to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake >>>> snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the >>>> 200hp a different configuration. >>>> Thanks guys >>>> Paul Walter >>> >>> >>> As long as the engines have the same 'type' (1 or 2) dynafocal mount, >>> the mounting dimensions are the same from 320 through IO 360. >>> >>> Charlie >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Paul, > > My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the > IO-360-A1B6. > I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether > it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be > capable of > achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. > > In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most > likely > won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to > me it > seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, > rather > than vice versa. > > So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you > WANT? > > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Thanks Dan, > I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. > I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in > Australia, > how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to > alter > the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. > > > Paul Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Charlie already covered the mount thing. > > I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get > into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once > a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at > http://www.vansairforce.net. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM > Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 > hp > io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp > model > and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass > repair. > Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Dan, > This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least > expensive > item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. > Where > can I get some info ?. > > > Regards - Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Paul, > > My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the > IO-360-A1B6. > I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether > it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be > capable > of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. > > In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most > likely > won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to > me > it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, > rather > than vice versa. > > So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you > WANT? > > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Thanks Dan, > I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. > I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in > Australia, > how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to > alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. > > > Paul Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Charlie already covered the mount thing. > > I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to > get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about > once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at > http://www.vansairforce.net. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM > Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the > 180 hp > io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp > model > and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass > repair. > Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Andrew Olech" <olechap(at)comcast.net> > Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment > > Hi all, > > > I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole > misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the > F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most > cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). > I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). > > > 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the > hole > rows in question > > 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed > together and lined up perfectly > > 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and > drawn-in relative hole centerlines. > > > Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and > no, > it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these > thick > heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other > and > don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade > the > skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 > holes per side that are effected. > > > I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? > > > 1. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make > the > bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the > centerlines > of the holes will come together closer. > 2. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - > I'll still get figure 8's) > 3. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might > look like hell under the HS) > > > I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. > > > More ideas? Help!! > > > -Andy > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html > http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html > > There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 > build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power > (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop > around to other build-up shops. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Dan, > This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least > expensive > item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. > Where > can I get some info ?. > > > Regards - Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Paul, > > My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, > the IO-360-A1B6. > I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether > it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be > capable > of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. > > In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most > likely > won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to > me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, > rather > than vice versa. > > So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you > WANT? > > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Thanks Dan, > I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him > self. > I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here > in Australia, > how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task > to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. > > > Paul Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Charlie already covered the mount thing. > > I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to > get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about > once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at > http://www.vansairforce.net. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM > Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the > 180 > hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 > hp > model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and > glass > repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different > configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment > > You need to bend the bulkhead flanges to match the tapering contour of the > fuselage. > I can see in your photos that they appear to be mostly "straight" rather > than tapered. > > By getting the bulkhead flanges to match the fuselage shape, that should > make a > big difference. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Olech > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:01 PM > Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment > > > Hi all, > > > I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some > hole misalignment > issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead > assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are > off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). I've attached a > set > of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). > > > 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the > hole > rows in question > > 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed > together > and lined up perfectly > > 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and > drawn-in > relative hole centerlines. > > > Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and > no, > it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these > thick heavy > duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and > don't > seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade the > skins > with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes > per > side that are effected. > > > I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? > > > 1.. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make > the bends > such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the centerlines of > the > holes will come together closer. > 2.. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - > I'll still > get figure 8's) > 3.. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might > look like > hell under the HS) > > > I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. > > > More ideas? Help!! > > > -Andy > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> > Subject: RE: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment > > Hello Andy, > > This is a very common problem and one that Van's has recently addressed. > The new aft bulkhead is no longer pre-punched.just order a replacement > and match drill the aft bulkhead. > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Olech > Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment > > Hi all, > > I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some > hole misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on > the F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In > most cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia > hole). I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes > through). > > 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the > hole rows in question > 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed > together and lined up perfectly > 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and > drawn-in relative hole centerlines. > > Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and > no, it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - > these thick heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with > each other and don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't > want to persuade the skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. > There are a total of 10 holes per side that are effected. > > I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? > > 1. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or > make the bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the > centerlines of the holes will come together closer. > 2. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help > - I'll still get figure 8's) > 3. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones > (might look like hell under the HS) > > I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. > > More ideas? Help!! > > -Andy > > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> > Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Here's another .. http://www.bpaengines.com/ > > Allen Barrett > BPE, Inc. > www.barrettprecisionengines.com > <http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/> > (918) 835-1089 phone > > I just toured their facility last week and got a first class tour that > included looking at the IO-390X-A1E6 before assembly. All parts are > Lycoming, including the roller cam assembly. Great people and excellent > products. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/pressReleases/july02/ > mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html > http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html > > There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do > 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power > (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop > around to other build-up shops. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Dan, > This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least > expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the > 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. > > > Regards - Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Paul, > > My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the > IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to > seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the > 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the > IO-360-A1B6. > > In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most > likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. > But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling > you have, rather than vice versa. > > So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you > WANT? > > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Thanks Dan, > I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. > I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in > Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big > a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my > 7A ?. > > > Paul Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Charlie already covered the mount thing. > > I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get > into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about > once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at > http://www.vansairforce.net. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter > Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp > io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 > hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later > and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different > configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > From: "wilkie" <wilkie1(at)charter.net> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Another place to find info about the IO390 is at: > http://www.bpaengines.com/site.html. The engine is listed under their > "products" section and includes a brief summary about the engine. > > Barrett makes some killer performance engines used by some of the most > well known > acro pilots around. Their prices may be higher but I doubt anyone could > question > their quality. > > Hope it helps........ > Scott Wilkinson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Dan, > This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least > expensive > item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. > Where > can I get some info ?. > > > Regards - Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Paul, > > My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, > the IO-360-A1B6. > I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether > it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be > capable > of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. > > In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most > likely > won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to > me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, > rather > than vice versa. > > So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you > WANT? > > )_( Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Thanks Dan, > I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him > self. > I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here > in Australia, > how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task > to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. > > > Paul Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Charlie already covered the mount thing. > > I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to > get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about > once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at > http://www.vansairforce.net. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM > Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the > 180 > hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 > hp > model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and > glass > repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different > configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter > ________________________________ Message 11 > ____________________________________ > > > From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment > > Andy > > A few weeks back I had this same problem...PLUS.....The plus was there was > a slight > miss alignment of the flanges between the forward and aft potions of the > bulkhead......But by the looks of your pictures it seems your fore / aft > alignment > is ok. Now for your problem: First try what Dan suggested. If that doesn't > work go with the 426-4 rivets (1/8) I did and it came out fine. > > Frank at SGU and SLC Fuse under construction.....finish will be > inventoried tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!Any > body got Oh lets say about 30k for my FWF stuff > > Andrew Olech wrote: > > Hi all, > > > Ive been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole > misalignment > issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead > assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are > off > up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32 dia hole). Ive attached a set > of > pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). > > > 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the > hole rows > in question > > 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed > together > and lined up perfectly > > 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and > drawn-in > relative hole centerlines. > > > Thankfully, I havent riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet and no, > it doesnt > seem like riveting it together will help in any way these thick heavy > duty > flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and dont seem > to want to come together any closer, I dont want to persuade the skins > with a > hole punch I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes per side > that > are effected. > > > I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? > > > Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make the > bends such > that the resulting flange will be shorter thus the centerlines of the > holes > will come together closer. > Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8 (this might not even help Ill still > get > figure 8s) > Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might look > like hell > under the HS) > > > I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. > > > More ideas? Help!! > > > -Andy > > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2005
From: TylerB <tylerii(at)infoave.net>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 <003e01c5d207$abcefbc0$6400a8c0@inspinc.ad> <002401c5d223$dadc82e0$0100000a@PDWALTER> <004b01c5d26c$608420e0$0700a8c0@hole> <001601c5d297$321bbb20$0100000a@PDWALTER> <00b101c5d2a5$bceca7b0$6400a8c0@inspinc.ad> As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here? Tyler, N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: > http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html > http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html > > There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do > 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power > (www.aerosportpower.com <http://www.aerosportpower.com>) and Mattituck > (www.mattituck.com <http://www.mattituck.com>), and shop around to > other build-up shops. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Dan, > This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the > least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not > heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. > > > Regards - Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Paul, > > My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my > plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and > I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the > claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving > the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. > > In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve > engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a > parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly > to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than > vice versa. > > So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which > powerplant do you WANT? > > )_( Dan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Thanks Dan, > I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the > man him self. > I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade > down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase > a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. > Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. > > > Paul Walter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Charlie already covered the mount thing. > > I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you > didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I > see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so > on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at > http://www.vansairforce.net. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM > Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > Hi guys, > > Glad to post my first question to the group, and > is as follows. > > When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount > and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can > I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp > model and then alter the cowling to remove air > intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the > whole engine mount for the 200hp a different > configuration. > > > Thanks guys > > Paul Walter > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 17, 2005
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Dan - Just to clear up a few points. I think you may have misread the Avweb article. There are currently five (5) shops on Lycoming's approved list of vendors for the IO-390 engine per the attached press release http://www.lycomingpower.com/media/docs/kit_engine_press_release_072405. doc. There are 11 kits available in the program. Contrary to the article, we are able to modify the kits to boost compression, port/flow match cylinders and other processes to improve performance of the different kits. A little history on the IO-390 - the first engine was built in our shop for an aerobatic competitor and Lycoming decided to use it, along with their 580, as a foray into the experimental engine market. It was sold here exclusively until Lycoming announced its kit engine program at Oshkosh this last summer. The engine is a drop in replacement for the IO-360-A series engine and is rated at 210 hp at 2700 rpm with standard compression and a 2000 hour TBO. We've had them produce as high as 215 on our dynomometer. At the current time, there are no modifications to allow for extra hp, but it is a beauty and is a great power plant option. Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870- B. N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com <http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/> ________________________________ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/ mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 17, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at various mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same. Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 when trimmed lean of peak. Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540. So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:) As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving right there. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here? Tyler, N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: =09 http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/ mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 17, 2005
Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around 180 KTAS burning 11-12gph. I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph. But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine is more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, absolutely. But obviously not to most people, who are content running a less efficient powerplant which has less cooling fin area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its life, or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the CHTs? Savings, schmavings. What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto fuel? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at various mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same. Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 when trimmed lean of peak. Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540. So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:) As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving right there. Frank From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here? Tyler, N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 17, 2005
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Well I was going by memory and I am 44 today....be gentle..:)..I think got my knots and MPH mixed up...Here is a quote frrom "Rocketboy" The Team Rocket F1 is a highly modified derivative of a Van's Aircraft RV-4. It features shorter wings, thick skins, WIDER cockpit and WAY more cubic inches under the hood (540). This F1 typically cruises at 234 MPH at 8500 feet burning 14 GPH. Economy cruise at 10,500 feet is 225.6 mph burning 11.9 GPH. On a cool morning, the F1 will climb out at over 3500 feet per minute with the help of it's 290+ horsepower engine. Still 225mph at 12GPH is still pretty good! Your 180kts is presumably running ROP?...I think you said your LOP (although slower) was quite a bit better than this? My IO360 is the bog standard (8.5:1) CR. According to everything I read it should be quite happy on premium car petrol. GAMI told me to keep CHT's at 375F or less and run 100ROP or 25 to 50 LOP. That is their conservative recommendation. According to Superior they had a hard time even getting the IO360 to detonate running premium autogas. I also have the Sam James cowl which of course has a plenum which is supposed to cool better...Hoping this will control my CHT's better too. If this works the $1 per gallon supposed savings will work out to roughly the cost of a rebuild by TBO....If it makes it that far it will indeed be a saving...If not it will be an expensive experiment.......Then I'll be looking for an IO540 to hang on the front!...:) Regards Frank ________________________________ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around 180 KTAS burning 11-12gph. I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph. But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine is more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, absolutely. But obviously not to most people, who are content running a less efficient powerplant which has less cooling fin area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its life, or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the CHTs? Savings, schmavings. What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto fuel? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at various mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same. Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 when trimmed lean of peak. Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540. So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:) As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving right there. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling =09 =09 As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here? Tyler, N537TM =09 Dan Checkoway wrote: =09 =09 http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/ mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2005
From: TylerB <tylerii(at)infoave.net>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 <96ECC502D2678A4192F48386A524718D02CF0E43(at)cacexc07.americas.cpqcorp.net> <006001c5d33c$034e78a0$0700a8c0@hole> I don't intend to run mogas in my engine. And the 180 will be a std. compression which will keep the CHT more in line. Also probably will not run lean of peak either. Did that on a Cardinal with the 200 angle valve and it did not last to 2000TBO. Fractured at 1250 hrs at the same spot the crank case did before. When I said tuned for best performance I meant flow matched , Horizontal cold air, dual electronic ignitions, injectors done by AirFlow. Dan, do you have to say a little prayer and do a little rain dance before cranking hot on your 200. I sure had to on the Cardinal Tyler N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: > Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around 180 > KTAS burning 11-12gph. > > I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph. > > But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine is > more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, > absolutely. But obviously not to most people, who are content running > a less efficient powerplant which has less cooling fin area. Which > one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the hopped-up 180hp parallel > valve running around 400F on CHT for its life, or the kicked-back > 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the CHTs? > > Savings, schmavings. > > What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto fuel? > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) <mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM > Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not > quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn > the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have > to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you how much fuel is burned > for how much HP is produced at various mixture and power settings. > Think you'll find they are all about the same. > > Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 > when trimmed lean of peak. > > Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel > consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540. > > So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only > true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:) > > As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The > idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different > pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving right there. > > Frank > > From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would > appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about > weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the > IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, > actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and > overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason > to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to > maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past > Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever > tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. > The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than > that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. > Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am > I missing something here? > Tyler, N537TM > > Dan Checkoway wrote: > >> http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html >> http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html >> >> There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by >> Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to >> AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com >> <http://www.aerosportpower.com>) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com >> <http://www.mattituck.com>), and shop around to other build-up shops. >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> Dan, >> This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the >> least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've >> not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. >> >> >> Regards - Paul >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> Paul, >> >> My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have >> on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as >> well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really >> lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be >> capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the >> IO-360-A1B6. >> >> In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle >> valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend >> using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems >> kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you >> have, rather than vice versa. >> >> So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which >> powerplant do you WANT? >> >> )_( Dan >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> Thanks Dan, >> I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from >> the man him self. >> I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to >> trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I >> may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to >> alter the one I have. Which engine would be you >> choice for my 7A ?. >> >> >> Paul Walter >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> Charlie already covered the mount thing. >> >> I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if >> you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems >> like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a >> month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting >> to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM >> Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Glad to post my first question to the group, >> and is as follows. >> >> When ordering my kit I selected the engine >> mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My >> question is can I at this point choose to >> change to the 200 hp model and then alter the >> cowling to remove air intake snorkel later >> and glass repair. Or is the whole engine >> mount for the 200hp a different configuration. >> >> >> Thanks guys >> >> Paul Walter >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2005
Subject: CG
Can anyone give me the ARM for the avionics stack in the 7? Thanks, Doug Preston ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 17, 2005
My 200hp angle valve injected engine is easy to hot start. No, it's not as easy as a carb'd engine, that's for sure. It definitely takes more blades to kick. But it's no problem, assuming you know the technique. I use the Airflow Performance purge valve. I also have a single Lightspeed Plasma II electronic ignition. These things can't hurt. A 200hp injected engine versus a 180hp injected engine...they should behave identically with respect to hot start traits. Did you have balanced injectors on your Cardinal when you ran LOP? Were they balanced so that EGTs peaked on all 4 cylinders within about 0.1gph of each other? Was the prop dynamically balanced? Seems like you're confident that LOP operation was the cause of the crank case fracture...curious about that. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: TylerB To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:39 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling I don't intend to run mogas in my engine. And the 180 will be a std. compression which will keep the CHT more in line. Also probably will not run lean of peak either. Did that on a Cardinal with the 200 angle valve and it did not last to 2000TBO. Fractured at 1250 hrs at the same spot the crank case did before. When I said tuned for best performance I meant flow matched , Horizontal cold air, dual electronic ignitions, injectors done by AirFlow. Dan, do you have to say a little prayer and do a little rain dance before cranking hot on your 200. I sure had to on the Cardinal Tyler N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around 180 KTAS burning 11-12gph. I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph. But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine is more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, absolutely. But obviously not to most people, who are content running a less efficient powerplant which has less cooling fin area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its life, or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the CHTs? Savings, schmavings. What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto fuel? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at various mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same. Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 when trimmed lean of peak. Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540. So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:) As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving right there. Frank From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here? Tyler, N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2005
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: CG
The arm depends entirely on the length of the radio you are using.( eg. if the radio is 10 inches long then the cg is 5 inches forward of the instrument panel ) Norman DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com wrote: > Can anyone give me the ARM for the avionics stack in the 7? > Thanks, > Doug Preston ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Engine - cowling
Date: Oct 17, 2005
The IO-360 200hp angle valve weighs 300 pounds; the IO-390 210hp weighs 308 pounds. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here? Tyler, N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/pressReleases/july02/ mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> Walter Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew Olech" <olechap(at)comcast.net>
Subject: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment
Date: Oct 17, 2005
Frank, Bill and Dan; Thanks for the quick responses. I guess my photos weren't perfect and are slightly misleading. The long (4-hole) flanges were pretty close to matching the skin angle. What you saw were the two single-hole tabs at the top where the longeron fits in, so they are offset 0.125 and not perfectly bent yet; but anyway I went back and double-checked (I'm getting good at taking that tailcone apart!) and realized that while bending flanges to mate with the side skins, I had made the web-to-flange radii slightly larger. So... I actually took two short pieces of angle, rounded the edges to the desired radius and basically used them as a "forming die". I clamped the bulkhead to one of the angles in a vise, and held and hit the other angle with a flush set in my rivet gun to (in lieu of a better term) smash the parts together and form the radiuses tighter. It helped significantly - the resulting holes are now within 1/4 Dia and I left little re-op evidence. I'm fairly picky, but I think oversizing to 1/8 will be acceptable at this point. Oh, and I'm with Dan on the angled valve -- I design jet engines and it's always nice to see lifing analysis results with parts that have extra cooling =) Thanks again! -Andy _____ From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stringham Subject: Re: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment Andy A few weeks back I had this same problem...PLUS.....The plus was there was a slight miss alignment of the flanges between the forward and aft potions of the bulkhead......But by the looks of your pictures it seems your fore / aft alignment is ok. Now for your problem: First try what Dan suggested. If that doesn't work go with the 426-4 rivets (1/8) I did and it came out fine. Frank at SGU and SLC Fuse under construction.....finish will be inventoried tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!Any body got Oh lets say about 30k for my FWF stuff Andrew Olech wrote: Hi all, I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the hole rows in question 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed together and lined up perfectly 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and drawn-in relative hole centerlines. Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and no, it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these thick heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade the skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes per side that are effected. I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? 1. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make the bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the centerlines of the holes will come together closer. 2. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - I'll still get figure 8's) 3. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might look like hell under the HS) I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. More ideas? Help!! -Andy _____ <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo.com /unlimited/> Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/16/05
Date: Oct 17, 2005
Paul Dan Checkoway's pix narrative is a great resource. Check his site at www.rvproject.com. Frank @ sgu and slc >From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >Reply-To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV7-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/16/05 >Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:31:34 +1000 > > >Hi guys, >As a first time builder, >I was wondering if any one actually produces a DVD series that actually >takes you through the building process step by step showing builders how to >construct tye RV 7. > >thank you > >Paul Walter >----- Original Message ----- From: "RV7-List Digest Server" > >To: "RV7-List Digest List" >Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 4:57 PM >Subject: RV7-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/16/05 > > >>* >> >>================================================== >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >>================================================== >> >>Today's complete RV7-List Digest can also be found in either of the >>two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >>in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >>and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >>of the RV7-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >>such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >>HTML Version: >> >> >>http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2005-10-16.html >> >>Text Version: >> >> >>http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv7-list/Digest.RV7-List.2005-10-16.txt >> >> >>================================================ >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >>================================================ >> >> >> RV7-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Sun 10/16/05: 11 >> >> >>Today's Message Index: >>---------------------- >> >> 1. 12:34 AM - Re: Engine - cowling (Paul Walter) >> 2. 07:39 AM - Re: Engine - cowling (Charlie England) >> 3. 09:13 AM - Re: Engine - cowling (Dan Checkoway) >> 4. 02:19 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (Paul Walter) >> 5. 03:04 PM - F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (Andrew >>Olech) >> 6. 04:01 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (Dan Checkoway) >> 7. 04:02 PM - Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (Dan >>Checkoway) >> 8. 05:17 PM - Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (William >>Gill) >> 9. 05:26 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (William Gill) >> 10. 06:10 PM - Re: Engine - cowling (wilkie) >> 11. 06:57 PM - Re: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment (Frank >>Stringham) >> >> >> >>________________________________ Message 1 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Thanks Dan, >>I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. >>I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in >>Australia, >>how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to >>alter >>the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. >> >> >>Paul Walter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Charlie already covered the mount thing. >> >> I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get >>into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once >>a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at >>http://www.vansairforce.net. >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM >> Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >> >> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 >>hp io >>360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp >>model >>and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass >>repair. >>Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. >> >> >> Thanks guys >> >> Paul Walter >>________________________________ Message 2 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >>The angle valve lyc has better bsfc than the other lyc engines. the >>Superior version might have improved porting using parallel valve heads >>& be nearly as good as the angle valve lyc, but I don't know whether >>that's true. You can get nearly 200 hp from a parallel valve lyc, but >>the bsfc isn't likely to be as good. >> >>No doubt, saving weight (& money) is good. >> >>Charlie >> >>Paul Walter wrote: >> >>> >>>Thanks Charlie, >>> >>>A guy also told me once that his Superior version of the 180HP O360 >>>actually dyno tested at 192 HP due to a different cam shaft that >>>company uses. He also stated that the 200HP engine was quite a bit >>>heavier and there for no advantage. His advice was Superior O or IO >>>360, 18OHP for best performance. >>> >>>Regards - Paul Walter >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" >>> >>>To: >>>Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:53 PM >>>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Paul Walter wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi guys, >>>>> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >>>>> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the >>>>>180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change >>>>>to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake >>>>>snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the >>>>>200hp a different configuration. >>>>> Thanks guys >>>>> Paul Walter >>>> >>>> >>>>As long as the engines have the same 'type' (1 or 2) dynafocal mount, >>>>the mounting dimensions are the same from 320 through IO 360. >>>> >>>>Charlie >>> >> >> >>________________________________ Message 3 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Paul, >> >>My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the >>IO-360-A1B6. >>I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether >>it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be >>capable of >>achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. >> >>In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most >>likely >>won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to >>me it >>seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, >>rather >>than vice versa. >> >>So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you >>WANT? >> >>)_( Dan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Thanks Dan, >> I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. >> I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in >>Australia, >>how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to >>alter >>the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. >> >> >> Paul Walter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Charlie already covered the mount thing. >> >> I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to >>get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about >>once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at >>http://www.vansairforce.net. >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM >> Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >> >> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the >>180 hp >>io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp >>model >>and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass >>repair. >>Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. >> >> >> Thanks guys >> >> Paul Walter >>________________________________ Message 4 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Dan, >>This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least >>expensive >>item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. >>Where >>can I get some info ?. >> >> >>Regards - Paul >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Paul, >> >> My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the >>IO-360-A1B6. >>I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether >>it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be >>capable >>of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. >> >> In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most >>likely >>won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to >>me >>it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, >>rather >>than vice versa. >> >> So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you >>WANT? >> >> )_( Dan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Thanks Dan, >> I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. >> I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in >>Australia, >>how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to >>alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. >> >> >> Paul Walter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Charlie already covered the mount thing. >> >> I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to >>get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about >>once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at >>http://www.vansairforce.net. >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM >> Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >> >> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the >>180 hp >>io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp >>model >>and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass >>repair. >>Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. >> >> >> Thanks guys >> >> Paul Walter >>________________________________ Message 5 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "Andrew Olech" <olechap(at)comcast.net> >>Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment >> >>Hi all, >> >> >>I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole >>misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the >>F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most >>cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). >>I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). >> >> >>1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the >>hole >>rows in question >> >>2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed >>together and lined up perfectly >> >>3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and >>drawn-in relative hole centerlines. >> >> >>Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and >>no, >>it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these >>thick >>heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other >>and >>don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade >>the >>skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 >>holes per side that are effected. >> >> >>I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? >> >> >>1. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make >>the >>bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the >>centerlines >>of the holes will come together closer. >>2. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - >>I'll still get figure 8's) >>3. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might >>look like hell under the HS) >> >> >>I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. >> >> >>More ideas? Help!! >> >> >>-Andy >> >> >>________________________________ Message 6 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html >>http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html >> >>There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 >>build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power >>(www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop >>around to other build-up shops. >> >>)_( Dan >>RV-7 N714D >>http://www.rvproject.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Dan, >> This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least >>expensive >>item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. >>Where >>can I get some info ?. >> >> >> Regards - Paul >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Paul, >> >> My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, >>the IO-360-A1B6. >>I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether >>it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be >>capable >>of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. >> >> In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine >>most likely >>won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to >>me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, >>rather >>than vice versa. >> >> So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you >>WANT? >> >> )_( Dan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Thanks Dan, >> I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him >>self. >> I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here >>in Australia, >>how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task >>to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. >> >> >> Paul Walter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Charlie already covered the mount thing. >> >> I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want >>to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned >>about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums >>at http://www.vansairforce.net. >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM >> Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >> >> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for >>the 180 >>hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 >>hp >>model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and >>glass >>repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different >>configuration. >> >> >> Thanks guys >> >> Paul Walter >>________________________________ Message 7 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment >> >>You need to bend the bulkhead flanges to match the tapering contour of the >>fuselage. >>I can see in your photos that they appear to be mostly "straight" rather >>than tapered. >> >>By getting the bulkhead flanges to match the fuselage shape, that should >>make a >>big difference. >> >>)_( Dan >>RV-7 N714D >>http://www.rvproject.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Andrew Olech >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:01 PM >> Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some >>hole misalignment >>issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead >>assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are >>off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia hole). I've attached a >>set >>of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). >> >> >> 1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the >>hole >>rows in question >> >> 2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed >>together >>and lined up perfectly >> >> 3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and >>drawn-in >>relative hole centerlines. >> >> >> Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and >>no, >>it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - these >>thick heavy >>duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and >>don't >>seem to want to come together any closer, I don't want to persuade the >>skins >>with a hole punch - I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes >>per >>side that are effected. >> >> >> I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? >> >> >> 1.. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make >>the bends >>such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the centerlines of >>the >>holes will come together closer. >> 2.. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help - >>I'll still >>get figure 8's) >> 3.. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might >>look like >>hell under the HS) >> >> >> I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. >> >> >> More ideas? Help!! >> >> >> -Andy >> >> >>________________________________ Message 8 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> >>Subject: RE: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment >> >>Hello Andy, >> >>This is a very common problem and one that Van's has recently addressed. >>The new aft bulkhead is no longer pre-punched.just order a replacement >>and match drill the aft bulkhead. >> >>Bill >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Olech >>Subject: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment >> >>Hi all, >> >>I've been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some >>hole misalignment issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on >>the F-711 bulkhead assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In >>most cases they are off up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32" dia >>hole). I've attached a set of pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes >>through). >> >>1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the >>hole rows in question >>2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed >>together and lined up perfectly >>3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and >>drawn-in relative hole centerlines. >> >>Thankfully, I haven't riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet - and >>no, it doesn't seem like riveting it together will help in any way - >>these thick heavy duty flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with >>each other and don't seem to want to come together any closer, I don't >>want to persuade the skins with a hole punch - I will just rip them. >>There are a total of 10 holes per side that are effected. >> >>I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? >> >>1. Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or >>make the bends such that the resulting flange will be shorter - thus the >>centerlines of the holes will come together closer. >>2. Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8" (this might not even help >>- I'll still get figure 8's) >>3. Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones >>(might look like hell under the HS) >> >>I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. >> >>More ideas? Help!! >> >>-Andy >> >> >>________________________________ Message 9 >>_____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> >>Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Here's another .. http://www.bpaengines.com/ >> >>Allen Barrett >>BPE, Inc. >>www.barrettprecisionengines.com >><http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/> >>(918) 835-1089 phone >> >>I just toured their facility last week and got a first class tour that >>included looking at the IO-390X-A1E6 before assembly. All parts are >>Lycoming, including the roller cam assembly. Great people and excellent >>products. >> >>Bill >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/pressReleases/july02/ >>mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html >>http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html >> >>There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do >>390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power >>(www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop >>around to other build-up shops. >> >>)_( Dan >>RV-7 N714D >>http://www.rvproject.com >>----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >>Walter >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Dan, >>This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least >>expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the >>390 version. Where can I get some info ?. >> >> >>Regards - Paul >>----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway >> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Paul, >> >>My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the >>IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to >>seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the >>390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the >>IO-360-A1B6. >> >>In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most >>likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. >>But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling >>you have, rather than vice versa. >> >>So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you >>WANT? >> >>)_( Dan >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >>Walter >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Thanks Dan, >>I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. >>I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in >>Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big >>a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my >>7A ?. >> >> >>Paul Walter >>----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway >> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Charlie already covered the mount thing. >> >>I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get >>into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about >>once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at >>http://www.vansairforce.net. >> >>)_( Dan >>RV-7 N714D >>http://www.rvproject.com >>----- Original Message ----- From: Paul <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >>Walter >>Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Hi guys, >> >>Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >> >>When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp >>io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 >>hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later >>and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different >>configuration. >> >> >>Thanks guys >> >>Paul Walter >> >>________________________________ Message 10 >>____________________________________ >> >> >>From: "wilkie" <wilkie1(at)charter.net> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >>Another place to find info about the IO390 is at: >>http://www.bpaengines.com/site.html. The engine is listed under their >>"products" section and includes a brief summary about the engine. >> >>Barrett makes some killer performance engines used by some of the most >>well known >>acro pilots around. Their prices may be higher but I doubt anyone could >>question >>their quality. >> >>Hope it helps........ >>Scott Wilkinson >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Dan, >> This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least >>expensive >>item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. >>Where >>can I get some info ?. >> >> >> Regards - Paul >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Paul, >> >> My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, >>the IO-360-A1B6. >>I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether >>it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be >>capable >>of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. >> >> In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine >>most likely >>won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to >>me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, >>rather >>than vice versa. >> >> So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you >>WANT? >> >> )_( Dan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Thanks Dan, >> I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him >>self. >> I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here >>in Australia, >>how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task >>to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. >> >> >> Paul Walter >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan Checkoway >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Charlie already covered the mount thing. >> >> I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want >>to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned >>about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums >>at http://www.vansairforce.net. >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Walter >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM >> Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. >> >> When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for >>the 180 >>hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 >>hp >>model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and >>glass >>repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different >>configuration. >> >> >> Thanks guys >> >> Paul Walter >>________________________________ Message 11 >>____________________________________ >> >> >>From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a(at)yahoo.com> >>Subject: Re: RV7-List: F-711 Bulkhead pre-punched hole alignment >> >>Andy >> >>A few weeks back I had this same problem...PLUS.....The plus was there was >>a slight >>miss alignment of the flanges between the forward and aft potions of the >>bulkhead......But by the looks of your pictures it seems your fore / aft >>alignment >>is ok. Now for your problem: First try what Dan suggested. If that doesn't >>work go with the 426-4 rivets (1/8) I did and it came out fine. >> >>Frank at SGU and SLC Fuse under construction.....finish will be >>inventoried tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!Any >>body got Oh lets say about 30k for my FWF stuff >> >>Andrew Olech wrote: >> >>Hi all, >> >> >>Ive been working aft fuselage assembly on my RV-7. I am having some hole >>misalignment >>issues due to the pre-punched nature of the flanges on the F-711 bulkhead >>assembly relative to the skin pre-punched holes. In most cases they are >>off >>up to 7/8 or almost 1 hole diameter (3/32 dia hole). Ive attached a set >>of >>pictures thrown into a .pdf (hope it goes through). >> >> >>1st picture gives an overview of the tailcone region, highlighting the >>hole rows >>in question >> >>2nd picture is a close-up of the hole misalignment with one side clecoed >>together >>and lined up perfectly >> >>3rd picture shows a top looking down x-section view of the flanges and >>drawn-in >>relative hole centerlines. >> >> >>Thankfully, I havent riveted together or primed this bulkhead yet and no, >>it doesnt >>seem like riveting it together will help in any way these thick heavy >>duty >>flanges (PITA, IMHO) are in intimate contact with each other and dont seem >>to want to come together any closer, I dont want to persuade the skins >>with a >>hole punch I will just rip them. There are a total of 10 holes per side >>that >>are effected. >> >> >>I think I have a few options, what do you suggest I do? >> >> >> Bend the flanges straight and re-bend the radius tighter or make the >>bends such >>that the resulting flange will be shorter thus the centerlines of the >>holes >>will come together closer. >> Oversize both rows of holes to 1/8 (this might not even help Ill >>still get >>figure 8s) >> Drill a new line of holes in between the pre-punched ones (might look >>like hell >>under the HS) >> >> >>I guess sometimes pre-punched is just a tad bit too helpful. >> >> >>More ideas? Help!! >> >> >>-Andy >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Right Elevator
Date: Oct 18, 2005
Hi Dan, When preparing the right elevator I have dimpled skin. I then intern dimpled all holes in E-703 end rib and E - 704 counter balance rib. How ever as the E - 713 counter balance skin fits over these holding the counterweight, I am not sure if this was the correct construction method. Do I intern dimple the counter balance skin and use flush head rivets ?. I'm having some grief with this and I have to tackle the left elevator complete with trim tab next !!. thanks Dan Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling My 200hp angle valve injected engine is easy to hot start. No, it's not as easy as a carb'd engine, that's for sure. It definitely takes more blades to kick. But it's no problem, assuming you know the technique. I use the Airflow Performance purge valve. I also have a single Lightspeed Plasma II electronic ignition. These things can't hurt. A 200hp injected engine versus a 180hp injected engine...they should behave identically with respect to hot start traits. Did you have balanced injectors on your Cardinal when you ran LOP? Were they balanced so that EGTs peaked on all 4 cylinders within about 0.1gph of each other? Was the prop dynamically balanced? Seems like you're confident that LOP operation was the cause of the crank case fracture...curious about that. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: TylerB To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:39 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling I don't intend to run mogas in my engine. And the 180 will be a std. compression which will keep the CHT more in line. Also probably will not run lean of peak either. Did that on a Cardinal with the 200 angle valve and it did not last to 2000TBO. Fractured at 1250 hrs at the same spot the crank case did before. When I said tuned for best performance I meant flow matched , Horizontal cold air, dual electronic ignitions, injectors done by AirFlow. Dan, do you have to say a little prayer and do a little rain dance before cranking hot on your 200. I sure had to on the Cardinal Tyler N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around 180 KTAS burning 11-12gph. I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph. But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine is more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, absolutely. But obviously not to most people, who are content running a less efficient powerplant which has less cooling fin area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its life, or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the CHTs? Savings, schmavings. What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto fuel? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at various mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same. Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 when trimmed lean of peak. Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540. So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:) As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving right there. Frank From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here? Tyler, N537TM Dan Checkoway wrote: http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Dan, This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?. Regards - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Paul, My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT? )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Thanks Dan, I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man him self. I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?. Paul Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Charlie already covered the mount thing. I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Walter To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling Hi guys, Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as follows. When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration. Thanks guys Paul Walter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2005
From: TylerB <tylerii(at)infoave.net>
Subject: Re: Engine - cowling
Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 <96ECC502D2678A4192F48386A524718D02CF0E43(at)cacexc07.americas.cpqcorp.net> <006001c5d33c$034e78a0$0700a8c0@hole> <43540C1E.3030903(at)infoave.net> <002001c5d35f$83aa3110$0700a8c0@hole> Prop was balanced and it had Gami's. The purge valve probably helps you a lot. The Cardinal hot starts were hampered by vapor lock and in most case took a lot of "air" and quite a few turns usually resulting in a rich vapor post detonation in the exhaust. My experience with a C172 with the 180 engine (not angle valve) was that the hot starts were much more benign. Not real sure that there was a single cause of the crank case failure but the A&P had some comments about the "vibration" issues when running LOP as he put it "with the Hartzell prop" But that is now someone else's issues as I decided that it was much less expensive to build a whole new plane than buying a certified 200 Factory Reman and I sold the Cardinal. Just a lot of bagage left over from the engine issues with it. The 360-180 really is considered "bullet proof" by most. There are many Cardinal flyers out there that wish the IO390 could be STC for the RG and nonRG Cardinals Also on this RV7A the instrumentation will be vastly improved so the engine will be more easily monitored. Tyler Dan Checkoway wrote: > My 200hp angle valve injected engine is easy to hot start. No, it's > not as easy as a carb'd engine, that's for sure. It definitely takes > more blades to kick. But it's no problem, assuming you know the > technique. > > I use the Airflow Performance purge valve. I also have a single > Lightspeed Plasma II electronic ignition. These things can't hurt. > > A 200hp injected engine versus a 180hp injected engine...they should > behave identically with respect to hot start traits. > > Did you have balanced injectors on your Cardinal when you ran LOP? > Were they balanced so that EGTs peaked on all 4 cylinders within about > 0.1gph of each other? Was the prop dynamically balanced? Seems like > you're confident that LOP operation was the cause of the crank case > fracture...curious about that. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TylerB <mailto:tylerii(at)InfoAve.Net> > To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling > > I don't intend to run mogas in my engine. And the 180 will be a > std. compression which will keep the CHT more in line. Also > probably will not run lean of peak either. Did that on a Cardinal > with the 200 angle valve and it did not last to 2000TBO. Fractured > at 1250 hrs at the same spot the crank case did before. > When I said tuned for best performance I meant flow matched , > Horizontal cold air, dual electronic ignitions, injectors done by > AirFlow. > Dan, do you have to say a little prayer and do a little rain dance > before cranking hot on your 200. I sure had to on the Cardinal > Tyler N537TM > > Dan Checkoway wrote: > >> Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around >> 180 KTAS burning 11-12gph. >> >> I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph. >> >> But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine >> is more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, >> absolutely. But obviously not to most people, who are content >> running a less efficient powerplant which has less cooling fin >> area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the >> hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its >> life, or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below >> 300F on the CHTs? >> >> Savings, schmavings. >> >> What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto >> fuel? >> >> )_( Dan >> RV-7 N714D >> http://www.rvproject.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) >> >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM >> Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is >> not quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise >> will burn the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture >> point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you >> how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at >> various mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they >> are all about the same. >> >> Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved >> IO360 when trimmed lean of peak. >> >> Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low >> fuel consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540. >> >> So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is >> only true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:) >> >> As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). >> The idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit >> different pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving >> right there. >> >> Frank >> >> From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM >> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >> >> As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would >> appreciate advice on this selection. The questions are more >> about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 >> HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms >> of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting >> tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I >> cannot see a reason to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything >> beyond the 180 HP built to maximize perfomance. All three >> engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two use >> significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start >> one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP >> weighs 30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. >> Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. >> Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are >> significant. Am I missing something here? >> Tyler, N537TM >> >> Dan Checkoway wrote: >> >>> http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html >>> http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html >>> >>> There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by >>> Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to >>> AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com >>> <http://www.aerosportpower.com>) and Mattituck >>> (www.mattituck.com <http://www.mattituck.com>), and shop >>> around to other build-up shops. >>> >>> )_( Dan >>> RV-7 N714D >>> http://www.rvproject.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Paul Walter <mailto:pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> >>> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >>> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >>> >>> Dan, >>> This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced >>> being the least expensive item. Being new to he >>> building process I've not heard of the 390 version. >>> Where can I get some info ?. >>> >>> >>> Regards - Paul >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Dan Checkoway <mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com> >>> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com >>> >>> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM >>> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I >>> have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the >>> IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether >>> it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether >>> the 390 will be capable of achieving the same degree >>> of economy as the IO-360-A1B6. >>> >>> In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the >>> angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd >>> recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But >>> to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based >>> on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa. >>> >>> So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which


August 21, 2005 - October 18, 2005

RV7-Archive.digest.vol-aj