RV9-Archive.digest.vol-aa
August 05, 2000 - April 01, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New RV-9 List At Matronics! |
Hi RV Listers!
Due to popular demand, I have added a new RV9-List email forum to the
Matronics server. As you might have expected, the name of the list is:
rv9-list(at)matronics.com
and you may subscribe to it by going to the usual Subscription page
found at:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Be sure to scroll down to the newly added "RV9-List" and
"RV9-List-Digest" buttons on the Subscription page.
I have also added support in the Search Engine and Download sections for
the new List. These can be found at:
http://www.matronics.com/search
and
http://www.matronics.com/archives
respectivly.
Have fun, and best regards!!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin, Matronics.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Cliff,
This is Don in Orlando, should be ordering for Christmas delivery......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
I signed up for the new list. Don't know if there is a value or not since I
monitor the whole RV list anyway, but leave no stone unturned I guess. I've
been monitoring the RV list for some time after having sold my RV completed
tail and partially completed wing kit. Kids are going into senior year of
college so all excuses should be gone. Couldn't pass up the wing after
Oshkosh. Figured I've done a tail already so will do that later or buy
someones left-over rv-9 tail kit later.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A
Waiting for wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | RV-9 cabin dimensions |
Hello RV-9 builders!
I've been lurking on the regular RV-list for quite sometime, learning and listening.
I've been struggling to decide which RV to build. Unitl recently, I really
wasn't considering the -9; the choice was between the -6 and -8. The wife (and
myself actually) really prefer the side by side seating. But I'm a big guy
(5' 10" - 240 lbs) and shoulder/elbow room is my biggest problem in flying most
spam cans.
The -8 has wonderful elbow and shoulder room, but I sat my wife in the back seat
at OSH and it wasn't exactly her idea of the ideal place to be.
I had an opportunity to fly with Bill B. in the original -9 (the day before it
went down). I didn't feel that it had the room for myself and another person comfortably.
I know the original -9 was made from a -6T fuselage I believe. At
OSH one of the Van's people told me that the -9 fuselage was an inch wider in
addition to being longer and taller. I sat in the new -9 at OSH (with my wife)
and found it to be quite reasonable with the two of us. Now to the point, can
anyone verify that the -9 fuse is wider than the -6? Believe it or not, that
would be enough of a difference to sway me toward the -9.
Some one recently posted on the RV list that the -6 Fuse is about 42.5 inches at
the elbows. Unfortunatley I didn't get a chance to measure the -9 at OSH. Does
anyone have cabin dimensions?
Thanks,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
Bought the Avery tool kits at OSH - tail kit is next!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary E. Slatt" <Gary.Slatt(at)gestech.com> |
| Subject: | Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:58:40 -0400 |
Hi Everyone!
I'm glad to see interest in the RV 9 . I'm still oscillating between the 6
and 9
I have to decide soon because I hope to order the tail kit this fall.
Gary (Hummelstown, PA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <cbegnaud(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 cabin dimensions |
Todd wrote:
>. Now to the point, can anyone verify that the -9 fuse is wider than
the -6? Believe it or not, that would > be enough of a difference to sway me
toward the -9.
>
I couldn't find the dimensions on the webb page and didn't measure them
either. In a discussion with Ken at the NW regional fly-in, in Arlington, WA
(where I got the first ever demo ride in the new 9A demonstrator) he
explained that the cabin seemed larger because because they lowered the seat
mount 1.5" and moved it aft 1" (or verse visa) It did seem roomier than the
6's I've flown in. It may be that by moving the seat aft and down that it
puts your elbows in a wider spot on the fuse? Not sure.
If it felt roomy enough when you sat in it, what difference do the numbers
make? Take a trip to Oregon and fly it. Then you'll know for sure :-)
BTW, there's one area where the '9 beats the other RV's hands down; that's
in the ability to load the cargo area with more weight! I ran the weight and
balance numbers from the new demonstrator, with my wife and me on board
(335#) and 3 gals of fuel we could put 140# in the cargo area and not
violate the aft CG limit!!!! Of course with full fuel the aft CG is no
problem and this loading puts it right at the gross of 1750#. Try that in a
6 or 8 .
I have a simple W&B spreadsheet in MS Excel for the 9A. If anyone wants a
copy, drop me a note and I'll e-mail it to you. This one is simple, I'll do
a more complete one later.
I don't know if most of you have flown in the NEW 9A demonstrator. If not I
would be happy to give a brief review of my flight in Arlington.
Regards,
Cliff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 cabin dimensions |
Todd,
I talked about the size of the -9 fuselage with one of Van's engineers.
Being one of Van's volunteers at OSH, we (the volunteers) don't always know
all the details which may account for people getting different stories.
I believe the engineer told me that the -9 fuselage is the same width as
the -6. It is 1" longer in the cockpit area and 4" longer overall. Hope
this helps.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
After literally YEARS of planning, researching and dreaming I finally took
the plunge and ordered my RV9 empennage. It should be here next week. (The
company is in the process of moving so things are a little slower than
normal.) I apologize in advance for what are bound to be a series of
(potentially) stupid questions but I intend to take advantage of the wealth
of experience here.
Kim Nicholas
Seattle
on order RV9 emp. (Yahoo!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin G. Santic" <martinsan(at)home.com> |
I just signed up for the list also. This time, the trip to Oshkosh
convinced me to build the RV-9A. Yesterday, I received the 2 tool kits,
ordered them from Avery's, and am making preparations to build in the
garage. The tailkit will be on order within a couple of weeks. Looking
forward to seeing some activity on this list relating to the
construction of the 9.
Marty W9EAA Davenport, IA
---------
From: "Cliff Begnaud" <cbegnaud(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: RV9-List: New List
Hello!!
Anybody here?
Just wondering if anyone else has signed up for this new list?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 cabin dimensions |
I would appreciate the copy of the file and the review.
Thanks
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A
Waiting for wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
Curious to hear about how long it took you to build the tail and your current
progress on the wing of your Rv-9, since my only experience was with an old
RV-6 before the days of prepunched skins. I had 275 hours in my previous kit
and I had the tail all primered, riveted, etc, but had not done the tips. On
the wings I had all the ribs trimmed, lightening holes cut, drilled and
clecoed to the spar, and beginning the rear spar, but no actual riviting
done. I think all this is already done on the new kits.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A
Waiting for wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | RV-9 kit match drilling |
There's three things that are steering my decision towards a -9 over a -6.
1. Roomier cabin - as previously discussed
2. Higher Gross weight - and managable CG as cliff pointed out
3. Pre-punched and matched drilled kit parts
I think I've got a handle on the first two, but I'm curious about the match drilling
on the wings and fuse. I've seen the -9 tailkit at OSH - take it out of
the box and cleco it together. How does the wing kit compare to this? What components
of the wing are match drilled? All ribs to skin? Ribs to spars? Main and
rear spar?
Anyone know about the fuselage kit yet? How many components are match drilled?
Bulkheads? Longerons? Others?
Thanks,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 kit match drilling |
Todd,
Almost everything is pre-punched. You have to drill out the holes to correct rivet
size, but I've found, almost everytime, that they match perfectly. Almost
everything is pre-punched.
Todd Houg wrote:
> How does the wing kit compare to this? What components of the wing are match
drilled? All ribs to skin? Ribs to spars? Main and rear spar?
> --
Regards,
Chuck Weyant
EMail Me: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
WebSite: http://www.chuckdirect.com
Santa Maria, CA
805 347-8882
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shoop, Daniel J " <shoopdj(at)aramco.com.sa> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/12/00 |
<2D6D2A7AAF8ED211823E0020484002A802474B04(at)ntdhapmx14.dha.aramco.com.sa>
Being basically an Cessna/Piper type pilot, I am wondering if the handling
characteristics of the RV-9 are much different. I don't think I want to get
into a really twitchy airplane. I need a fairly solid platform when the
weather closes in and I have to make navigational corrections by increments.
Does anybody have experience in the RV-6T or other RV's that might shed some
light one this?
I've never flown in any RV, but trying to read between the hype lines of
those who have, I get the impression that "very responsive" might mean
"bordering on neutral stability". This might mean too much airplane for
the old man to handle.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: (no subject) |
--> RV4-List message posted by: larry laporte
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
--> RV4-List message posted by: Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RV-List: RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
--> RV-List message posted by: Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List: (no subject) |
--> RV-List message posted by: larry laporte
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <cbegnaud(at)bigfoot.com> |
I was at the airport this morning flying the Kitfox. When finished, I
stopped by the FBO for refreshments and noticed that UPS was making a
delivery. After querying the driver about his route we determined that he
delivered to my neighborhood. He looked to see if he had anything for me,
and sure enough, he had my tail kit. So, I took delivery of it, right there
at the airport. Most appropriate, I thought.
Now the fun starts.
Cliff
RV9A Kit # 90133
N782PC (reserved)
taking inventory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Parsons" <dap(at)DParsons.com> |
Congratulations!!!! I am sure you are excited.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford
Begnaud
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 3:58 PM
Subject: RV9-List: New Kit
I was at the airport this morning flying the Kitfox. When finished, I
stopped by the FBO for refreshments and noticed that UPS was making a
delivery. After querying the driver about his route we determined that he
delivered to my neighborhood. He looked to see if he had anything for me,
and sure enough, he had my tail kit. So, I took delivery of it, right there
at the airport. Most appropriate, I thought.
Now the fun starts.
Cliff
RV9A Kit # 90133
N782PC (reserved)
taking inventory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shoop, Daniel J " <shoopdj(at)aramco.com.sa> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/29/00 |
<2D6D2A7AAF8ED211823E0020484002A8025D7861(at)ntdhapmx14.dha.aramco.com.sa>
Cliff:
I like your lifestyle....flying kitfoxes on a Tuesday morning, then taking
delivery on your next airplane kit! Good luck with it and keep us posted.
What engine do you plan to use?
Dan Shoop
Future RV9 Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <cbegnaud(at)bigfoot.com> |
>
> Cliff:
>
> I like your lifestyle....flying kitfoxes on a Tuesday morning, then taking
> delivery on your next airplane kit!
I was truant ;-)
> Good luck with it and keep us posted.
Will do. I'm starting a web site and will post updates there.
(www.barefootpilot.com, nothing there yet)
> What engine do you plan to use?
Plan to use 0-320 with constant speed prop.
regards,
Cliff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 09/29/00 |
Please delete. Too many "0" messages...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
\"\(RV9-List\)\""
| Subject: | Fw: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
> --> RV-List message posted by: Marty Santic
>> Since starting to watch this list a little more closely I have compiled
a list of approximately 12 RV-9A builders that have frequented the list. <<
Normally, it would not be necessary to maintain a list of RV-9A builders.
There is an RV-9A Builders list. It gets very few posts. As others have
stated the kit is very good and prepunched perfectly. I find that most
issues also apply to other RVs and so are covered by posts to the normal
RV-List. There have only been a few issues pertaining specifically to the
RV-9A. Since I have kit #30 I was quite concerned that I was a pioneer
where the published help would provide little benefit. Not to worry!!
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings EAA: #430137
Plan: O-235/Wood Prop RAA:
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email:
ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
I just picked up my Emp kit at Vans today (in my 172) and was told the wing
kits are out 10 to 12 weeks now. Appears there's a problem getting raw
material to make them.
Greg Tanner
RV-9A Empennage
SER #90186 N80BR (APPLIED FOR)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Kells
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:47 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Fw: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under
construction
> --> RV-List message posted by: Marty Santic
>> Since starting to watch this list a little more closely I have compiled
a list of approximately 12 RV-9A builders that have frequented the list. <<
Normally, it would not be necessary to maintain a list of RV-9A builders.
There is an RV-9A Builders list. It gets very few posts.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings EAA: #430137
Plan: O-235/Wood Prop RAA:
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email:
ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest |
I think the number of postings will keep increasing as the RV-9 is selling
pretty good from what I hear. Also as more complex portions of the aircraft
begin to go together I expect we'll begin to hear of some challenges and the
various work arounds...I am just closing vertical stabilizer now and it has
been pretty painless to this point. I do have to decide which lights to
install on the rudder...any suggestions out there? It appears to me that
Whelen is pretty proud of their product as is reflected in their price! Does
anyone have any experience with aeroflash and know who has the best prices on
theirs or a similar tail light/strobe? Thanks for the info...
Doug Lomheim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shoop, Daniel J " <shoopdj(at)aramco.com.sa> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/04/00 |
"RV9-List Digest Server "
<2D6D2A7AAF8ED211823E0020484002A8028004D8(at)ntdhapmx14.dha.aramco.com.sa>
>I just picked up my Emp kit at Vans today (in my 172) and was told the wing
>kits are out 10 to 12 weeks now. Appears there's a problem getting raw
>material to make them.>
>
>Greg Tanner
>RV-9A Empennage
>SER #90186 N80BR (APPLIED FOR)
What raw material? It's just aluminum sheet and rivits! Please don't tell
me there is a cartel on Aluminum now or I'll have to take up sailing (in
steel boats since fiberglass requires petroleum products, wood is not
allowed to be harvested, and, of course, the "Aluminum cartel" makes the
other material unavialable too).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jginth(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
Hello- I am buikding my tail- never posted before. Just received my kit 3
weeks ago and I was 180.
John G
Pennsylvania
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 4:47 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Fw: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under
construction
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Marty Santic
>
> >> Since starting to watch this list a little more closely I have
compiled
> a list of approximately 12 RV-9A builders that have frequented the list.
<<
>
> Normally, it would not be necessary to maintain a list of RV-9A builders.
> There is an RV-9A Builders list. It gets very few posts. As others have
> stated the kit is very good and prepunched perfectly. I find that most
> issues also apply to other RVs and so are covered by posts to the normal
> RV-List. There have only been a few issues pertaining specifically to the
> RV-9A. Since I have kit #30 I was quite concerned that I was a pioneer
> where the published help would provide little benefit. Not to worry!!
>
> Ernest Kells
> RV-9A - Building Wings EAA: #430137
> Plan: O-235/Wood Prop RAA:
> Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email:
> ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shoop, Daniel J " <shoopdj(at)aramco.com.sa> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/09/00 |
"RV9-List Digest Server "
<2D6D2A7AAF8ED211823E0020484002A802874C80(at)ntdhapmx14.dha.aramco.com.sa>
>From: <jginth(at)email.msn.com>
>Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under
construction
>
>
>Hello- I am buikding my tail- never posted before. Just received my kit
3
>weeks ago and I was 180.
>John G
>Pennsylvania
Hello John - Is this your first aircraft building attempt? What do you
think of the kit and what's you opinion on the skill rquired to get the job
done?
Dan Shoop - Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV-List: how many RV-9A are presently under construction |
Hello John,
My name is Joel and I live in Southern NJ. I purchased my RV9 kit at Oshkosh
this year. Due to some re-aranging of my work space I am just now getting a
real start on the horizonal stabilizer. I have been doing a lot of research
into inssues including crrosion control and would be interested in hearing
you opionion of this topic. What part of PA are you from?
Regards,
Joel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Williams Hildred" <WilliamsHildred(at)JohnDeere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Match drilling the Wd-605 to the E-902 spar |
"Williams Hildred"
How do you match drill the Wd-605 to the E-902 after the upper E-901
elevator skin is attached ??
On page 6-7 and 6-8, of the RV-9A construction manual, there appears to be
a mis-statement.
After the skin is attached to the E-901, the pre-punched holes of the Wd-605
can not be reached.
Did anyone else see this as a problem??
Do you have any suggestions as how to get past this problem??
Hildred Williams
WilliamsHildred(at)JohnDeere.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Match drilling the Wd-605 to the E-902 spar |
You are right, they are in the wrong order. I read through the
instructions and looked at the drawings, then thought about what needed
to be done. I effectively moved that paragraph up one by mounting WD
605 before riveting the upper skin to the spar.
Did not have a problem.
Suggest you call VAN's
You may be able to open up the lower skin so you can get to the horn,
but it will be difficult to do without kinking the skin. They may be
able to offer a suggestion
John Oliveira
90054 - just about done with elevators
name="Oliveira.vcf"
filename="Oliveira.vcf"
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adr:;;;Honoye Falls;NY;;
version:2.1
email;internet:Oliveira(at)eznet.net
fn:John Oliveira
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Match drilling the Wd-605 to the E-902 spar |
Thought some more about the problem last night while I was working on my
elevators. I see to possible solutions that are pretty straight
forward.
1. Clamp the upper skin with spar to the bench flat. Open up the lower
skin and clamp it to something at about 90 degrees to the bench. You
then have some access to the front of the spar. Position the elevator
horn WD-605 in position and match drill and cleco to the inboard rib.
Clamp WD 605 to the spar and match drill using 90 degree angle drill
attachment. the small one from avery should fit. You can then debur
and rivet into place.
Option 2. If you don't yet have an angle drill you could drill a new
pattern of holes from the rear of the spar, but make sure you clamp the
horn to the front of the spar before drilling.
This all assumes that you have just riveted the top skin in place and
not yet the bottom one.
John Oliveira
RV9A - N909RV reserved
name="Oliveira.vcf"
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adr:;;;Honoye Falls;NY;;
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
Mark,
I heard at Oshkosh that electric flaps will be standard. I don't know about
the manual elevator trim. My fuselage kit was shipped today. I hope to
receive it in about a week.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
I noticed on the RV-9A fuselage order form that electric flaps and manual
elevator trim aren't offered as options. Are these items included as
standard equipment with the kit? Has anybody received their fuselage yet? If
so, how do you like it?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV-List: Double flush riveting |
> --> RV-List message posted by: Todd Houg
> OK, all you RV-9A builders, what are the secret's for getting good double
> flush rivets on the trailing edge's of the rudder and elevator?
Todd: I completed the riveting of the RV-9A rudder and both elevators using
a large back rivet plate. It is a homemade plate, very similar to the plate
offered on Page 15 of the Avery catalogue. I laid the rudder on it, using
MDF board of the exact same thickness for a runout. I used many of the
rubber tipped clamps to hold the rudder, plate and MDF very flat against the
table top. If you don't do this you will probably develop a slight "wavey"
trailing edge - plus perhaps have some rivets pucker out a gap. Easy to do.
When you rivet start with the gun vertical, then slowly tilt the gun until
it is perpendiculer to the top rudder surface as it sets. If you are not
sure how long it will take to set you may want to practice a little before
the main event. I was quite pleased with the results. The straight "knive
edge" must be very aerodynamic. Good luck.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings EAA: #430137
Plan: O-235/Wood Prop RAA:
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email:
ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV-List: Double flush riveting |
I did much the same, accept I used the Back Rivet tool to start the
rivets. I held the spring loaded guide firmly against the skin with my
hand to press the skins and wedge tightly together and then drove the
rivet until almost complete.
I finished by putting the shop head down on the plate and using a normal
flush riveting tool on the manufactured head side. Looked great and was
straight.
Back rivet tool seemed to offer me much more control of the situation.
John Oliveira
RV9a - finishing elevators, wing ordered
Rochester, NY
N909RV reserved
name="Oliveira.vcf"
filename="Oliveira.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Oliveira;John Oliveira
adr:;;;Honoye Falls;NY;;
version:2.1
email;internet:Oliveira(at)eznet.net
fn:John Oliveira
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Williams Hildred" <WilliamsHildred(at)JohnDeere.com> |
"'C J Heitman'"
"Williams Hildred"
On the VAN Web site, under 'OPTIONS', electric flaps are standard on the
RV9, but the "aileron trim is not standard on any RV, but it is
recommended.", and should be ordered with the fuselage kit.
Hildred Williams
WilliamsHildred(at)JohnDeere.com
-----Original Message-----
From: C J Heitman [SMTP:cjh(at)execpc.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:20 PM
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9A Fuselage
Mark,
I heard at Oshkosh that electric flaps will be standard. I don't
know about
the manual elevator trim. My fuselage kit was shipped today. I hope
to
receive it in about a week.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
I noticed on the RV-9A fuselage order form that electric flaps and
manual
elevator trim aren't offered as options. Are these items included as
standard equipment with the kit? Has anybody received their fuselage
yet? If
so, how do you like it?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV-List: Double flush riveting |
Ernest & John,
Good input. This is really timely as I also will be doing this operation
either today or tomorrow.
Thanks,
Cliff
N782PC
9A
Erie, CO
>
> I did much the same, accept I used the Back Rivet tool to start the
> rivets. I held the spring loaded guide firmly against the skin with my
> hand to press the skins and wedge tightly together and then drove the
> rivet until almost complete.
>
> I finished by putting the shop head down on the plate and using a normal
> flush riveting tool on the manufactured head side. Looked great and was
> straight.
>
> Back rivet tool seemed to offer me much more control of the situation.
>
> John Oliveira
> RV9a - finishing elevators, wing ordered
> Rochester, NY
> N909RV reserved
>
> name="Oliveira.vcf"
> filename="Oliveira.vcf"
>
> begin:vcard
> n:Oliveira;John Oliveira
> adr:;;;Honoye Falls;NY;;
> version:2.1
> email;internet:Oliveira(at)eznet.net
> fn:John Oliveira
> end:vcard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Lead Counterweights |
I was ready to close out my rudder yesterday so I took it over the the local
EAA tech advisor for a look before doing so.
One thing he commented on was the attachment of the lead counterbalance
weight. I had attached it with the provided hardware which included a
regular AN960 washer. He said that in time the lead would "give" at the
point where the washer contacts the lead and would then allow movement of
the weight. His recommemdation was to use a larger washer that would fill
the recess in the lead completely.
Another pilot friend was observing and commented that he had made this
mistake on his scratch built bi-plane and his had become loose.
Just thought I would pass this on. Hope it's not too late for some of you
:-)
Cliff
kit 90133
N782PC
Erie, CO
Riveting trailing edge of rudder today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Jones" <esnj(at)wans.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Fuselage |
I think that you order either manual or electric elevator trim at the time
you place your elevator order. Richard Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9A Fuselage
>
> Mark,
>
> I heard at Oshkosh that electric flaps will be standard. I don't know
about
> the manual elevator trim. My fuselage kit was shipped today. I hope to
> receive it in about a week.
>
> Chris Heitman
> Dousman WI
> RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
> http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> I noticed on the RV-9A fuselage order form that electric flaps and manual
> elevator trim aren't offered as options. Are these items included as
> standard equipment with the kit? Has anybody received their fuselage yet?
If
> so, how do you like it?
> Mark Schrimmer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Lead Counterweights |
I took the extra precaution of bonding the weights to the counterbalance
ribs with ProSeal.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage in transit
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
One thing he commented on was the attachment of the lead counterbalance
weight. I had attached it with the provided hardware which included a
regular AN960 washer. He said that in time the lead would "give" at the
point where the washer contacts the lead and would then allow movement of
the weight. His recommemdation was to use a larger washer that would fill
the recess in the lead completely.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
Sorry, I meant to say "Aileron" trim.
Chris Heitman
-----Original Message-----
I think that you order either manual or electric elevator trim at the time
you place your elevator order. Richard Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV-List: Double flush riveting |
> I did much the same, accept I used the Back Rivet tool to start the
> rivets. I held the spring loaded guide firmly against the skin with my
> hand to press the skins and wedge tightly together and then drove the
> rivet until almost complete.
EXACTLY. We did the same thing. You have to hold the guide tightly with
your fingers pushing hard against the skin - otherwise there will be a gap.
Also, I ran the neat little Avery edge rolling tool to run along the edge to
put a slight crimp in the two skins. I held it at a slight agle so that the
small crease line would be in line with the centre of the prepunched holes.
It won't show when painted. The two skins form a nice sharp point when
pressed tightly during the riveting. I finish filed the edge (2 skins plus
the extrusion) to a razer - I could slice a head of lettuce with the rudder.
> I finished by putting the shop head down on the plate and using a normal
> flush riveting tool on the manufactured head side. Looked great and was
> straight.
I think we did the same. All riveting operations were done using only the
Back riveting rivet set, the large flat back riveting plate and a 3X gun at
38.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings EAA: #430137
Plan: O-235/Wood Prop RAA:
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email:
ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lead Counterweights |
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
on 10/27/00 7:58 AM, C J Heitman at cjh(at)execpc.com wrote:
>
> I took the extra precaution of bonding the weights to the counterbalance
> ribs with ProSeal.
>
> Chris Heitman
> Dousman WI
> RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
> Fuselage in transit
> http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
The tech counselor at the airport where I'm building my kit suggested
ProSeal, too. I also thought about making a small aluminum fixture to hold
the weight in place, but the ProSeal approach is probably easier.
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lead Counterweights |
Chris,
When you say Proseal, did you use that brand or the MC-236 that Vans sells?
Did the stuff come with your wing kit or do you have to order it separately?
If it's Proseal, does it have a shelf life like the MC-236?
I wonder if something sold in a tube at the hardware store would work for
securing the weights. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Cliff
Thinking about removing rudder tip rib to proseal weight
>
> I took the extra precaution of bonding the weights to the counterbalance
> ribs with ProSeal.
>
> Chris Heitman
> Dousman WI
> RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
> Fuselage in transit
> http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> One thing he commented on was the attachment of the lead counterbalance
> weight. I had attached it with the provided hardware which included a
> regular AN960 washer. He said that in time the lead would "give" at the
> point where the washer contacts the lead and would then allow movement of
> the weight. His recommemdation was to use a larger washer that would fill
> the recess in the lead completely.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Lead Counterweights |
I actually used the stuff that Vans sells. It does not come with the wing
kit since it only has a 9 month shelf life. I'm storing mine in a
refrigerator to try to extend the shelf life. I have heard that it lasts a
long time at lower temperatures.
Chris Heitman
-----Original Message-----
When you say Proseal, did you use that brand or the MC-236 that Vans sells?
Did the stuff come with your wing kit or do you have to order it separately?
If it's Proseal, does it have a shelf life like the MC-236?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unknown <oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Fuselage |
The fuselage order blank I got in the mail had a place on it for you to
check to get a 70$ credit if you had manual trim. The credit is because
they get to leave out the cable. So the net for electric trim is $130.00.
John Oliveira
N909RV Reserved - Tail almost done, wings ordered
Richard Jones writes:
>
> I think that you order either manual or electric elevator trim at the time
> you place your elevator order. Richard Jones
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:19 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9A Fuselage
>
>
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > I heard at Oshkosh that electric flaps will be standard. I don't know
> about
> > the manual elevator trim. My fuselage kit was shipped today. I hope to
> > receive it in about a week.
> >
> > Chris Heitman
> > Dousman WI
> > RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
> > http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > I noticed on the RV-9A fuselage order form that electric flaps and manual
> > elevator trim aren't offered as options. Are these items included as
> > standard equipment with the kit? Has anybody received their fuselage yet?
> If
> > so, how do you like it?
> > Mark Schrimmer
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Fuselage |
John,
Really cool tail number!
cliff
fighting with rivets on tip rib, rivets winning
>
> The fuselage order blank I got in the mail had a place on it for you to
> check to get a 70$ credit if you had manual trim. The credit is because
> they get to leave out the cable. So the net for electric trim is $130.00.
>
> John Oliveira
> N909RV Reserved - Tail almost done, wings ordered
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Double flush riveting |
Thanks for the many responses regarding the double flush riveting!
A couple more questions about the trailing edges . . .
How did you do the countersinking of the AEX wedge? I just start
countersinking it last night and it seems that in order to get a
countersink deep enough to allow the .016 skin to sit flat, that the
opposite countersink will enlarge the hole and allow the countersink bit to
chatter, or worse elongate the hole. Am I countersinking to deeply? Or do
you just keep a steady hand and go for it?
My plan for riveting the trailing edge is to use a piece of 4 foot long
1/4" x 4"x4" steel angle iron smoothed and polished on one side as a long
bucking bar as recomended in the RV-ator. I should be able to secure it to
the bench and clamp the trailing edge along it's length. My only concern is
that I can't cleco the edge if it's clamped flat against the iron. Do you
just tape in the rivets along the edge and rely on that to keep the holes
in alignment?
Thanks again,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
Moving on to the elevator so I can prime the whole works at once.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Double flush riveting |
Todd, here is how I countersunk the AEX wedges: First I drilled the wedge
and bottom skin into a piece of medium density particle board and clecoed as
I went. Then I clecoed the wedge and one of the skins to the same board to
act as a pilot for the countersink cutter. Not only does the skin below the
wedge help to locate the pilot, but it also raises the microstop cage high
enough off the board so that the lowest side of the cage does not hit the
board due to the angle. When the first side is done, flip the wedge over and
cleco it and the other skin to the board and countersink the second side. (I
used a cleco in every hole.) The countersinks came out just about perfect.
If this is not clear, I do have some pictures and could add a page to my
website to help illustrate.
I just taped the rivets into the trailing edges for back riveting. A few
additional pieces of tape wrapped around the trailing edge kept things
together until some of the rivets were set. I used bags of lead shot to hold
the surface flat while back riveting.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Wings
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
How did you do the countersinking of the AEX wedge? I just start
countersinking it last night and it seems that in order to get a
countersink deep enough to allow the .016 skin to sit flat, that the
opposite countersink will enlarge the hole and allow the countersink bit to
chatter, or worse elongate the hole. Am I countersinking to deeply? Or do
you just keep a steady hand and go for it?
My plan for riveting the trailing edge is to use a piece of 4 foot long
1/4" x 4"x4" steel angle iron smoothed and polished on one side as a long
bucking bar as recomended in the RV-ator. I should be able to secure it to
the bench and clamp the trailing edge along it's length. My only concern is
that I can't cleco the edge if it's clamped flat against the iron. Do you
just tape in the rivets along the edge and rely on that to keep the holes
in alignment?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Double flush riveting |
Chris,
Excellent solution.
When I was ready to countersink I had already dimpled the skins so this
wouldn't work as well. I just took a piece of 3/16" thick aluminum and
drilled a hole for the pilot to ride in. I clamped the AEX wedge in place
for each hole, somewhat tedious, but it worked.
Todd, take a look at this picture:
http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4293430833&idx=1
Cliff
>
> Todd, here is how I countersunk the AEX wedges: First I drilled the wedge
> and bottom skin into a piece of medium density particle board and clecoed
as
> I went. Then I clecoed the wedge and one of the skins to the same board to
> act as a pilot for the countersink cutter. Not only does the skin below
the
> wedge help to locate the pilot, but it also raises the microstop cage high
> enough off the board so that the lowest side of the cage does not hit the
> board due to the angle. When the first side is done, flip the wedge over
and
> cleco it and the other skin to the board and countersink the second side.
(I
> used a cleco in every hole.) The countersinks came out just about
perfect.
> If this is not clear, I do have some pictures and could add a page to my
> website to help illustrate.
>
> I just taped the rivets into the trailing edges for back riveting. A few
> additional pieces of tape wrapped around the trailing edge kept things
> together until some of the rivets were set. I used bags of lead shot to
hold
> the surface flat while back riveting.
>
> Chris Heitman
> Dousman WI
> RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
> Wings
> http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> How did you do the countersinking of the AEX wedge? I just start
> countersinking it last night and it seems that in order to get a
> countersink deep enough to allow the .016 skin to sit flat, that the
> opposite countersink will enlarge the hole and allow the countersink bit
to
> chatter, or worse elongate the hole. Am I countersinking to deeply? Or do
> you just keep a steady hand and go for it?
>
> My plan for riveting the trailing edge is to use a piece of 4 foot long
> 1/4" x 4"x4" steel angle iron smoothed and polished on one side as a long
> bucking bar as recomended in the RV-ator. I should be able to secure it to
> the bench and clamp the trailing edge along it's length. My only concern
is
> that I can't cleco the edge if it's clamped flat against the iron. Do you
> just tape in the rivets along the edge and rely on that to keep the holes
> in alignment?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Double flush riveting |
Chris and Cliff,
Both excellent solutions! Unfortunately, I've already dimpled the rudder
skins, but I won't make that mistake with the elevator. I'll probably take a
piece of scrap aluminum sheet and match drill it to the AEX wedge and use
it as a guide to do a number of holes at a time and then shift it down to
do another set (as long as the pilot holes are sufficiently matched up as I
move down the length).
Thanks again,
Todd
Ready to drill the AEX wedge for the right elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: Hi builders from a new builder |
Henrique:
Welcome to the group of RV-9A builders. You will enjoy this project. The
quality of the kit is excellent and it is fully prepunched (none of the
boring stuff). I would suggest that you subscribe to the RV9-List as well
as the RV-List. There is a lot of help available, plus there is an
extensive archive for you to research most questions.
>> 1 - Did you ordered an aileron trim with this aircraft? in case positive,
which you recomend - eletric or manual? (i ordered eletric elevator trim kit
with empenage)<<
This is a personal choice. I ordered electrical trim for the elevator. You
will get a $70 credit on the fuselage for not using the hardware. I choice
manual trim for the ailerons. Check the archives for the many opinions on
choices.
>> 2 - which eletric system you think is best? 14 or 28v system?<<
I think that the only real answer is a 14 volt system, even in Brazil.
There is no real advantage to 28V. However, even if you get a 28V bargain
you will find that the availability and cost advantage of 14V parts,
avionics, etc., to be overwhelming. There is very little 28V stuff but
there is a lot of 14V stuff in aviation and automotive markets. Research
the RV-List archives. Do yourself a big favour - order the Bob Nuckell's
book for guidance in all things electrical (best $35.00 you will ever
spend).
>> 3 - Does anyone operate the Skymap IIIC GPS ? I'm planning to order
this.<<
I will probably order a palm computer and GPS, and subscribe to a database.
I have an analysis of this probable solution which I can email, if
interested - about four pages. It provides a non-propriotary and open
approach which protects the future.
>> 4 - I'd like to hear your choice about powerplants. I am seriously
considering a new lycoming 0235 from vans with a fixed pitch wood prop. But
which brand? (sensenich? ivoprop?) If you have any better advice, i'd like
to hear from you.<<
I think that your approach is good. I hope to buy a used O-235 that is
broken in, cheaper - but with a 1,000 hours or so left TBO. In Brazil you
may require a new one. I plan to use a fixed pitch as well. There is
little (actually no) experiance with ANY airframe/powerplant combination. I
would prefer wood - such as an Aymer Demuth or a company with many RV-6
implementations (some experience). PLEASE check the archives on Ivoprop and
other composite solutions. You may find that there are some horror stories
that you may not like.
Enjoy the experience.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning O-235, Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Email: ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | A Season of Giving - Please Support Your List! |
Dear Listers,
As my good friend Al Mojzisik from the RV-List forum has pointed out in
his humorous style this morning, its time for the Annual List Fund
Raiser! For those that are new to the Lists since last year, I'd like
to just mention what its all about. I have always run the List services
here completely free of charge to the members. This includes the Email
Lists, Archive Search Engine, as well as some of the other goodies found
on the servers. My policy has always been that I will never charge a
'fee' to sign up for any of the email Lists and I have also turned down
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membership, and in my opinion, this is the most important element in the
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That being said, I must also say that running this system is far from
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On the average I spend 10 to 20 hours a week handling subscription
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The whole List site (web server and email server) continue to run across
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If you regularly enjoy the services provided here, I would ask that you
make a Contribution in any amount in which you are comfortable. Your
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To make a SSL Secure Web Contribution using your Visa or MasterCard,
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PO Box 347
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As I have done in the past, I will post a "Contributors List" at the end
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generously made a Contribution this year!
Finally, I just want to say *Thank You* to everyone that has supported
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means a great deal to me and I feel like I have friends literally from
all around the world!
Sincerely,
Matt Dralle
Your Email List Administrator
dralle(at)matronics.com
============================================================================
>--------------
>--> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik
>
>Well folks,
>
>I hate to spring this on you without much advance warning and all but it's
>November already. For you newer List members you may not know but this is
>the time of year we all give "thanks" for all that Matte Dralle has done
>for us with this RV-List. the customary way of saying "thanks" is with a
>voluntary donation of cash through Matte's own simple and safe contribution
>hot-line at:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>It's really rather painless and actually gives you a good warm and fuzzy
>feeling inside after you have made your contribution. Now last year I
>relied heavily on guilt to get some of you harder nuts to crack to ante
>up. This year I hope that in keeping with the election year theme I can
>learn something from the experts........"It's for the children."
>
>Yes your contribution will help children everywhere learn about the high
>moral values that are inherent in the RV family of aircraft. As our young
>charges surf the Internet for information on various things that we don't
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>become aware of the RV-List and other interesting forums that Matte
>provides. This in turn may change there lives as they see what can be
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>exchange of idea's between consenting adults can result in the birth of one
>(or more) of the finest aircraft in existence today. They can become aware
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>to them. So in the interest of our children, send your contribution to
>Matte to help the RV-List live long and prosper.............Darn, got my
>tongue caught in my cheek there for a moment.
>
>Once again, you can make your contribution through credit card at:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> c/o Matt Dralle
> Matronics
> P.O. Box 347
> Livermore, CA. 94551
>
>I would like to pledge at this time that I will not place any negative
>advertising in the hope of raising funds for RV-List support. (Unless you
>folks hold out too long, then look out!) Let's have a real clean campaign
>this November and get out the contributions! AL
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Hello Listers!
This is just a reminder that the Annual List Fund Raiser is currently
underway. Won't you make a Contribution today to support the continued
operation and upgrade of this valuable resource? Your Contribution can
be made via a Secure SSL Internet Transaction with your Visa or
MasterCard at the URL shown below or you may send it via US Mail to the
address also listed below.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
P.O. Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you for your support! Your generosity directly makes this List
possible.
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Homebuilt-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Homebuilt-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Zenith-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Rocket-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | RV6-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> RV6-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Huge Apology for "List Malfunction"... |
Dear Listers,
I am so embarrassed by the List-gone-crazy tonight! I'm not sure
exactly went wrong. I'm suspecting that someone with an email account
at msm.com may have been reposting my message from this morning over
and over again maliciously spamming the system, but I can't really
prove that.
In any case, I am hugely embarrassed and sorry for the ton of messages
that went out tonight regarding the 2000 Fund Raiser. Something went
wrong on the system or somebody did me wrong; in either case I
apologize for the huge dump of messages.
My sincerest apologies...
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
RV9 builders
I have just started work on my RV9 and was wondering how many RV9 builders
have chosen the O-235 for their power-plant and if any one plans on using
auto-fuel in their RV9 with the O-235?
Thanks
Scott A. Spencer
RV9 emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented... |
Dear Listers,
With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting)
and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was
clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how
messages posted to the various Lists was handled.
As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email
program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your
message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you
include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be
accepted instead of bounced back.
But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text
will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any
HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should
serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to
increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives.
I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if
you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably
why.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pierre R. Durand" <pierre(at)durand.net> |
| Subject: | New RV-9A builder |
I am preparing my order for an RV-9A and am making the list of tools I would
like to buy.
I have the recommended list of tools from Van's but I believe there may be
more to it.
Has anyone compiled a real list of tools that really make life easier
building an RV should money not be an obstacle.
My objective is to avoid having to say, "Had I known I would of bought that
at the beginning."
All opinions and ideas pertaining to building a workshop are appreciated.
I have a 22'x25' workshop that needs to be totally populated with worktables
and tools.
Pierre
pierre(at)durand.net
(204) 957-5029
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-9A builder |
I ordered the avery kit with some additions and deletions. So far I
have been happy with what I have. I have added a few minor things like
a nut plate drilling jig.
Here is the file of additions and deletions. The best addition was the
rivet squeezer.
I am done with the Empennage waiting for the wing kit. Hope this helps.
John Oliveira
RV9a - N909RV reserved SN 90054
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
No choice on power plant yet. It will be either O225 or O320. I figure
I can wait a while to make that choice
Done with empennage, waiting for wing
John Oliveira N909RV reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | New RV-9A builder |
Pierre and Others:
Even though the RV-9A kit is VERY good, the 51% rule means that you still
have to perform representative activities for building an airplane. This
means that there are not many tools that you can avoid - you just use them
less. I suggest tyhat you get the Avery catalogue. Buy aircraft tools on
the Avery RV A (starter) tool kit and the B (completer) kit. Avery has only
good tools. They will give you about 10% reduction on a large order. You
may save more by buying some cheaper tools, elsewhere. Don't skrimp on the
riveting tool, the C-Frame dimpler, the edge rolling tool, etc.
For general tools you should have a good rechagable drill (12 volt is okay),
average quality drill press, bench grinder, air drill, etc. However, make
certain that you have an OIL BATH compressor (an oiless will drive you
crazy). Check the archives. Buy other stuff only as you need it.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pierre R. Durand" <pierre(at)durand.net>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 4:35 PM
Subject: RV9-List: New RV-9A builder
>
> I am preparing my order for an RV-9A and am making the list of tools I
would
> like to buy.
> I have the recommended list of tools from Van's but I believe there may be
> more to it.
> Has anyone compiled a real list of tools that really make life easier
> building an RV should money not be an obstacle.
> My objective is to avoid having to say, "Had I known I would of bought
that
> at the beginning."
>
> All opinions and ideas pertaining to building a workshop are appreciated.
>
> I have a 22'x25' workshop that needs to be totally populated with
worktables
> and tools.
>
>
> Pierre
> pierre(at)durand.net
> (204) 957-5029
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ward, David E" <David.Ward2(at)pss.boeing.com> |
I have also just started my RV9, and have been looking and asking about different
powerplant options. I have been asking the instructors at the local aviation
maintenance school who say more horse power is better, therefor the lycoming
0-320, of which the 0-320 E2D is their choice, a 150 horse that can be converted
to 160 horse. I was also told that a 0-235 costs the same to overhaul as an
0-320. Also, the E2D has an STC for mogas.
Dave Ward
> ----------
> From: Scott[SMTP:scottaspencer(at)att.net]
> Reply To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 12:16 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: RV9 O-235
>
>
> RV9 builders
>
> I have just started work on my RV9 and was wondering how many RV9 builders
> have chosen the O-235 for their power-plant and if any one plans on using
> auto-fuel in their RV9 with the O-235?
>
> Thanks
> Scott A. Spencer
> RV9 emp
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shoop, Daniel J " <shoopdj(at)aramco.com.sa> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 11/13/00 |
<2D6D2A7AAF8ED211823E0020484002A802B60BBF(at)ntdhapmx14.dha.aramco.com.sa>
>I am preparing my order for an RV-9A and am making the list of tools I
would
>like to buy.
>I have the recommended list of tools from Van's but I believe there may be
>more to it.
>Has anyone compiled a real list of tools that really make life easier
>building an RV should money not be an obstacle.
>My objective is to avoid having to say, "Had I known I would of bought that
>at the beginning."
>
>All opinions and ideas pertaining to building a workshop are appreciated.
>
>I have a 22'x25' workshop that needs to be totally populated with
worktables
>and tools.
>
>
>Pierre
>pierre(at)durand.net
>(204) 957-5029
Ask Sam Buchanan http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/rv6.html email:
sbuc(at)traveller.com. Great page if you haven't seen it yet and he has lots
of suggestions on tools. He likes to chat about his project, too, if you
want to email him.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
David and others:
Before asking other people about power you should talk about your "mission".
Otherwise, you don't know what you need. With the RV-9A you have said that
you are not into aerobatics. You are buying a cruise plane. If an
extra10-15mph cruise very important you may wish to get the biggest engine
with an MT prop. It would definitely get you bragging rights on the flight
line. Remember that the power/speed ratio is NOT a straight line
relationship. For me the extra cost, maintenance, operation, etc., is not
within my mission. I'll probably buy a new Vans O-235. It's $16,000 and is
rated for 2,400 hours and use less autogas per hour. The total cost of
ownership over the life of the engine is A LOT LOWER - and about the same
amount of fun per hour (FPH).
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
RV9-List message posted by: "Ward, David E" David.Ward2(at)PSS.Boeing.com
>
> I have also just started my RV9, and have been looking and asking about
different powerplant options. I have been asking the instructors at the
local aviation maintenance school who say more horse power is better,
therefor the lycoming 0-320, of which the 0-320 E2D is their choice, a 150
horse that can be converted to 160 horse. I was also told that a 0-235 costs
the same to overhaul as an 0-320. Also, the E2D has an STC for mogas.
> Dave Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 11/13/00 |
In regard to the tool questions...
Get all you can! I'm shoulder deep in my -9 empennage, and there are two
things I noticed right away- first, the RV-A kit from Avery isn't enough. I
immediately ordered the "B" kit, and, even tho I ordered the kits separately,
they did give me the discount (that's why they have such a great reputation).
I also will be ordering more 1/8 clecoes. I ordered a $49.95 bench grinder
from Northern tools (www.northerntools.com) and it's been great! This one has
a belt sander on one side and wheel on the other- best of both worlds, and a
good price (even with $25 shipping). You'll appreciate it when you start
fabricating parts from stock.
I had considered ordering the "B" kit without the air drill, and using my
cordless instead. GLAD I didn't! Avery's air drill is head and shoulders
above an electric!
I'm building this in a one-car garage, and put my wing/rudder jig on wheels
so I can still park my little ragtop Jeep after the work sessions. I'll tell
you later if that works out OK! Wish me luck!
I hope to have enough money left in a year or so to get an 0-320. Why fly a
185-mile-an-hour airplane at 140?
Ed Winne, Palmyra PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ivey <jim(at)jimivey.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Yak-List: New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented... |
Everything you need to know can be found at the following url:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/
I just used the secure credit-card option. There is also a snail-mail
address for you old-fashioned types (i.e. back in the good old days when
folks wouldn't abscond with your credit card info) ;)
Jim Ivey
N46YK
Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting)
> and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was
> clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how
> messages posted to the various Lists was handled.
>
> As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email
> program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your
> message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you
> include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be
> accepted instead of bounced back.
>
> But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text
> will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any
> HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should
> serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to
> increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives.
>
> I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if
> you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably
> why.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Admin.
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying... |
Matt,
I think what you're doing is great for those of us flying and building Kolb
aircraft. You're probably saving Kolb a full time employee in tech support
just by providing the communication between builders. I know I have had a
half dozen questions answered here on the list and saved Kolb support a few
phone calls. You should forward this letter to Kolb, maybe they'd ante up,
too. It would be great PR for the TN Kolb a/c. Thanks a bunch, Matt!
Ken Broste
Building a Firestar
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> During this year's List Fund Raiser I have been receiving a number of
> very nice comments from members regarding what the Lists mean to them.
> I'm sure most everyone can echo one or more of the thoughts expressed
> below. Won't you take a moment to make a Contribution to support the
> continued operation and improvment of your Lists?
>
> A special 'thank you' to everyone that has made a contribution so far
> and for all of the wonderful and supportive comments I've received!
>
>
> To make a contribution with a credit card over an SSL Secure Web Site,
> please go to the following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> or, to make a contribution with a person check, please mail it to:
>
> Matronics
> c/o Matt Dralle
> PO Box 347
> Livermore, CA 94551
>
>
> Thank you!!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> ===================== Comments From List Members
========================
>
>
> * You helped make this dream a reality... -Terry C.
>
> * Thanks for a wonderful resource! -Rick J.
>
> * Thanks for providing a quality product. -Bill C.
>
> * Have found [the List] invaluable for education while building... -Rick
H.
>
>
> * I learn so much from the List! -Robert R.
>
> * [The List] is better than any aviation magazines I subscribe
o. -Roger H.
>
> * I enjoy the pages and find them very helpful. -Noel G.
>
> * The "List" is a great place to both receive and exten help and ideas
for
> building and making flying safer. -Jack B.
>
>
> * The discussions are very helpful. -James B.
>
> * ...I believe this List will be a better value than the
ewsletter. -Roger T.
>
> * [The List] has helped me with the construction of my RV-9. -Marty S.
>
> * VERY good reading. Excellent entertainment value. -Jerry I.
>
>
> * [The List] has saved me many hour on wild goose chases. -Billy W.
>
> * Thanks for keeping my passion for flying as piqued as ever. -Terry W.
>
> * Keep up the nice work. -Daniel H.
>
> * Thanks for all the effort on behalf of Sport Aviation! -Elbie M.
>
>
> * ...Great information source! -Richard W.
>
> * ...Thanks for your help and patience with a very difficult
ask. -Louis W.
>
> * [The List] has been a great asset. -Edward C.
>
> * Just started and already received some valuable tips. -Scott S.
>
>
> * Thanks for the List to let up share our passion. -Brian A.
>
> * ...This List is good stuff. -Russ D.
>
> * ...The single most helpful resource I've come across in
uilding. -Craig P.
>
> * ...Enjoy [the List] a lot. -John H.
>
>
> * The List is a most important tool to help building. -Brad R.
>
> * ...Really found the List to be great! -Geoff T.
>
> * Excellent contribution to the aviation community. -Larry B.
>
> * Great source of information... -William G.
>
>
> * The Lists ... make building a real hoot! -Jeff O.
>
> * The List has been invaluable. -Matt P.
>
> * Thanks for letting me use the site. It's great! -Larry M.
>
> * ...This List has been very helpful. -Larry H.
>
>
> * Greatest support ever for the builders and I have met many
riends. -Fred H.
>
> * ...I love this List and have met many new friends... -Tom E.
>
> * Love both the List and the Search Engine. -Roy G.
>
>
> ===================== Comments From List Members
========================
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/02/00 |
The RV-9A builder's experience page:
Brought to you by me- Ed Winne, firt-time builder, already learning from
experience (which is to say, I'm already ordering replacement parts for my
empennage to replace the ones I screwed up!!). Also, I'd like to start seeing
some messages show up on this list.
First of all, I REALLY like the pre-punched parts. I know I nver would have
had the patience to do things the "old" way. My hat's off to those who have
gone before!
Here are some things I've found (trial and error) that may help those just
starting on their emp. kits. I will update as I go along:
1) Do a REALLY thorough inventory when you get the kit, and put everything in
a place you can actually find it. I got a cheap plastic parts cabinet and
emptied all the bags into it, with labels on the drawers. I've not had to go
hunting too badly for the small stuff. But remember- unless Van backordered
something, it really is all in there.
2) Ribs: When you start working with the ribs, go right to the the last page
of the plans and study the rib flute stuff for a little. Then, when you
file/sand off the high spots, DON'T get agressive, or you'll have to order a
new rib (like me!). And when you start to fit the nose ribs in the HS, make
sure they're fluted enough that you don't have to "jam" them in. (with the
pre-punched holes, it's tempting to reach that cleco up there and do that).
That thin skin will show it if you do!
3) Riveting. Crank that compressor pressure down. I set mine at 40 PSI with a
3X gun, and this sets both skin and spar rivets OK. Be sure to have a good
posture when flush riveting, or the skins will show it later. Reaching over
the HS to set the rivets on the far side doesn't look so pretty later. You
can look at my HS and tell which side I did first. Not ugly, but not perfect
by far! Spar rivets- on the main spar, be sure the bucking bar clears the
attach fittings when riveting the inboard rib into place. Mine caught on the
attach fitting, I didn't get a good shop head and mashed the factory head.
Drill out and re-do!
4) Plans: To keep from getting parts confused, make DAMN sure you get
left/right, front/back straight, then put a number on all the parts, with a
corresponding number on the plans. (ribs 1-10, etc). Much easier when laying
out for cleaning, priming, etc.
5) Rudder- the stiffeners are provided extra long. You need to separate them,
then shorten them. Ther holes are NOT equidistant! (I wish the plans had
mentioned that!) If you shorten from the wrong end, the holes won't line up,
and you WILL be ordering more from Van's! Cleco and match holes before
shortening!
That's all for now, kids, I'll update as I screw up more parts!
Ed Winne
Palmyra PA
RV-9 emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/02/00 |
Ed,
Sounds like we are at about the same spot in building our RV9s, my wings
show up January 10 or so. My screw-ups so far have been;
1. Not properly account for the angle in the HS attach bracket on the first
try. This caused me to be undersized enough to do it again.
2. Somehow incorrectly measure the rib attach point on the forward spar of
the VS. This was discovered when the skins were first mated to the skeleton
for drilling purposes and the bottom rib was found to be 1/4 " low on the
forward spar and the mid-rib was 1/8 inch to low. Fortunately after
conferring with Vans (whose support I'm VERY happy with) I only had to drill
two new holes on the mid-rib/spar and four on the lower rib/spar and
reposition without replacing parts.
3. (The scariest) Discover, after skin was riveted to VS, that the flush
rivets at the bottom of the rear spar and rear spar doubler were not
counter-sunk sufficiently allowing a .014 gap at those rivets. After
sending pictures and a written description to Vans engineering I was
informed that that was not as critical an error as I imagined and I could
simply ignore it from the structural integrity standpoint. I was told I
could tear it all apart and replace the spar and doubler while salvaging all
else if I wanted, but since this is being built not for show but utility
(training and travel) I elected the easy way out. It is very comforting to
be able to work directly with the qualified design engineers on these
problems.
Scott
RV9A - Emp
Verona, KY.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Squeezing trailing edge double flush rivets |
This past week I started backriveting the empennage trailing edge double
flush rivets. I started with the left elevator and got reasonable results,
but I couldn't help thinking that it would sure be nice to use the
pnuematic squeezer for these. After a little thought and experimentation, I
modified/sacrificed my 3/16 AN470 squeezer set and turned it into an angled
rivet set.
You can see the details at the following link:
http://www.toddhoug.com/doubleflush.html
Ther result was very nice double flush rivets and a very straight trailing
edge.
Hapy building,
Todd Houg
RV-9A - finishing up the empennage riveting and moving on to fiberglass
till the wings come.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Squeezing trailing edge double flush rivets |
They look nice. I am just beyond your stage. I have done all the glass
work on the tail sections and have painted the FG parts. They are ready
to rivet in place.
I also am keeping busy while waiting for the wings to arrive. They are
scheduled to be shipped the first week in Jan.
I was happy with my flush rivets, but yours look outstanding. I have
noticed that after you think you are done with all the sheet metal work,
there was still plenty to do mounting, the elevators, Rudder, and tips
and getting everything adjusted. The FG parts fit very well. I have
not used and do not intend to use any filler in the joints. The joints
are fine, look as good as many of the sheet metal edges.
John Oliveira
RV9A, N909RV reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/03/00 |
Scott,
How much is "undersizing" the attach angles on the HS to have to redo them
again? I feared that same problem with my right one after meticulously
getting the nine (and only NINE) holes drilled accurately in the top angle.
The left came out 1/32 undersized on the angle, and the right about 1/8. I
called Van's and was told not to even bother drilling the other 16 holes in
the spars, that "if" the parts needed replacement, I would discover that
during fit up with the fuselage. The guy I spoke with at Van's tech desk
said the angles align with the fuselage, and that it might be necessary to
"jiggle" the angles at fit up, thus easier to do if they're not already
drilled and riveted.
Other than that, I'm right behind you with tail construction. Finishing the
HS, and should be starting the VS by Sat. Don't expect to get my wing kit
till April/May though. Wish it was sooner, but money doesn't grow on
tumbleweeds out here.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp, Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/03/00 |
Scott,
How much is "undersizing" the attach angles on the HS to have to redo them
again? I feared that same problem with my right one after meticulously
getting the nine (and only NINE) holes drilled accurately in the top angle.
The left came out 1/32 undersized on the angle, and the right about 1/8. I
called Van's and was told not to even bother drilling the other 16 holes in
the spars, that "if" the parts needed replacement, I would discover that
during fit up with the fuselage. The guy I spoke with at Van's tech desk
said the angles align with the fuselage, and that it might be necessary to
"jiggle" the angles at fit up, thus easier to do if they're not already
drilled and riveted.
Other than that, I'm right behind you with tail construction. Finishing the
HS, and should be starting the VS by Sat. Don't expect to get my wing kit
till April/May though. Wish it was sooner, but money doesn't grow on
tumbleweeds out here.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp, Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/03/00 |
Matt,
Mine was about 1/8" undersize too. I decided on my own to fabricate
another. I am taking the position that if Van's says it's ok then I won't
worry about it. I don't want to be sloppy in my construction but I'm not
building a show bird either. I have been clearly documenting in my builders
log who, when and what I talk about with Van's.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Squeezing trailing edge double flush rivets |
Todd,
Thanks for sharing your technique. I am working on the rudder and not to
far away from the trailing edge and I happen to have all the parts laying
around to try your method. I was just informed by vans that I'm going to
get my wings this month instead of January. I don't know if someone
canceled or they are just ahead.
Scott
RV9-A Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
| Subject: | Squeezing trailing edge double flush rivets |
Scott,
When were your wings originally scheduled to ship? Mine are scheduled to
ship January 8th, I haven't heard anything yet with regards to shipping
prior to that. It would sure be nice to be able to put them under the
Christmas tree! ;) On, second thought, the wife probably wouldn't appreciate
huge wooden crates in the Family room.
If they're ahead of schedule, maybe I'll here from them soon too!
Todd Houg
Waiting for Tech Counselor inspeciotn of Emp.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott [mailto:scottaspencer(at)att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Squeezing trailing edge double flush rivets
Todd,
Thanks for sharing your technique. I am working on the rudder and not to
far away from the trailing edge and I happen to have all the parts laying
around to try your method. I was just informed by vans that I'm going to
get my wings this month instead of January. I don't know if someone
canceled or they are just ahead.
Scott
RV9-A Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Squeezing trailing edge double flush rivets |
Todd
I'm not near my shop, so I can't check but I think we had about the same
original ship date. Call them and check, that's how I found out. I was
calling to pay in full before the end of the year and they gave me the news.
My wife was hoping for a break in the building during the holidays. I
wonder if I have enough self-restraint to keep from opening those crates -
nah.
Merry Christmas.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/03/00 |
Actually mine came out a 1/32" small as well. I measured correctly, or close
to it, but by the time I polished and smoothed it out it was undersized.
Being the first part I fabricated I decided to make another rather than begin
cutting corners on the first part. The replacement piece of angle was only
about $6.
Dennis Thomas
RV-9A Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Streeter <streeter(at)rv9a.sketchy.net> |
| Subject: | HS skin bend and alignment |
I was out clecoing the HS ribs and spars into the skin today. It was a
decent effort to get the front ribs into place, resulting in my taking a
step back. It appears as though the leading edge bend is not quite aligned
with (centered between) the pre-drilled holes. To visualize this, with the
skin pushed firmly into the vee-blocks (the bend was centered in the
blocks), I inserted a small rod into the forward-most rivet holes at the
outermost front rib location. You would think the rod would be more or
less horizontal (it was at the innermost rib location) but in the case of
both of my skins, it was skewed a fair amount. With a bit of coaxing, I
was able to assemble the entire HS, but the leading edge is noticeably
tugged down (to the right, looking down the span while in the jig) at the
outer tip -- like an asymmetric foil shape.
It seems as though the skin was perhaps misaligned during the bend operation.
Is this usual? The pre-bent shape is not easy to 'move' in the way it
seems it would need to.
No digital camera yet, but I took some analog photos.
Derek Streeter
RV-9A #222
Outside Boulder, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/05/00 |
It seems like there are a bunch of folks at close to the same build stages
here. I'm just fitting the stiffeners to my rudder, as well, but I haven't
ordered the wing kit yet (waiting to feel good about this building stuff).
The Van's web site says 10 to 12 weeks lead time. This sound right to those
of you who've received or are about to receive their wings? I AM beginning to
feel good about my skills, though I will say that the right side of my HS
sure does NOT look as smooth as the left side. You can see the progression of
skill!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcel Bourgon" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/05/00 |
Greetings from El Paso, Texas
Just received my wings yesterday. 16 Weeks delivery time.
Marcel in El Paso
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ewinne(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:12 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/05/00
>
> It seems like there are a bunch of folks at close to the same build stages
> here. I'm just fitting the stiffeners to my rudder, as well, but I haven't
> ordered the wing kit yet (waiting to feel good about this building stuff).
> The Van's web site says 10 to 12 weeks lead time. This sound right to
those
> of you who've received or are about to receive their wings? I AM beginning
to
> feel good about my skills, though I will say that the right side of my HS
> sure does NOT look as smooth as the left side. You can see the progression
of
> skill!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS skin bend and alignment |
Derek,
This doesn't sound right.
BTW, do I know you? I'm in Erie, CO. My wife, Patti, and I currently fly a
blue kitfox out of 48V.
Why don't you come over and look at my skins. Not riveted yet, but ready.
Regards,
Cliff
RV9A N782PC (reserved)
Kit 133
>
> I was out clecoing the HS ribs and spars into the skin today. It was a
> decent effort to get the front ribs into place, resulting in my taking a
> step back. It appears as though the leading edge bend is not quite
aligned
> with (centered between) the pre-drilled holes. To visualize this, with
the
> skin pushed firmly into the vee-blocks (the bend was centered in the
> blocks), I inserted a small rod into the forward-most rivet holes at the
> outermost front rib location. You would think the rod would be more or
> less horizontal (it was at the innermost rib location) but in the case of
> both of my skins, it was skewed a fair amount. With a bit of coaxing, I
> was able to assemble the entire HS, but the leading edge is noticeably
> tugged down (to the right, looking down the span while in the jig) at the
> outer tip -- like an asymmetric foil shape.
>
> It seems as though the skin was perhaps misaligned during the bend
operation.
>
> Is this usual? The pre-bent shape is not easy to 'move' in the way it
> seems it would need to.
>
> No digital camera yet, but I took some analog photos.
>
> Derek Streeter
> RV-9A #222
> Outside Boulder, CO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | RV-9A gear leg notice from Vans |
I just noticed that vans has issued a notice for RV-9A builders to "Check
your gear legs". It can be found on thier web site under the notices and
service bulletins section. It only effects those that have already recieved
thier fuselage kits.
Apparently there may have been a mix up and the incorrect gear legs may
have been sent. The notice describes how to measure the angle of the axle
stub relative to the gear leg to verify that you have the correct (or
incorrect) gear legs.
I wish I was that far along!
Todd Houg
RV-9A - Fitting the emp. control surfaces.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/05/00 |
Silly me, I said my mounting flange was short by 1/32" it was 3/32".
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
| Subject: | HS skin bend and alignment |
Hello Derek,
Did you take any measurements of the position of the bend relative to the
edges of the skin to see if it may be off center? You might want to look
closely at your cut out in the V-blocks. If one side doesn't quite match the
curve, it wouldn't take much to cause the holes to be slightly out of
alignment if one side was pushed in an extra 1/8" (1/16" even?). Did you try
turning it end for end so the the V-blocks are swapped and try the same
method to check for alignment? This should tell you whether it's your skins
or your V-blocks.
Good luck,
Todd Houg
RV-9A #196
-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Streeter [mailto:streeter(at)rv9a.sketchy.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:59 AM
Subject: RV9-List: HS skin bend and alignment
I was out clecoing the HS ribs and spars into the skin today. It was a
decent effort to get the front ribs into place, resulting in my taking a
step back. It appears as though the leading edge bend is not quite aligned
with (centered between) the pre-drilled holes. To visualize this, with the
skin pushed firmly into the vee-blocks (the bend was centered in the
blocks), I inserted a small rod into the forward-most rivet holes at the
outermost front rib location. You would think the rod would be more or
less horizontal (it was at the innermost rib location) but in the case of
both of my skins, it was skewed a fair amount. With a bit of coaxing, I
was able to assemble the entire HS, but the leading edge is noticeably
tugged down (to the right, looking down the span while in the jig) at the
outer tip -- like an asymmetric foil shape.
It seems as though the skin was perhaps misaligned during the bend
operation.
Is this usual? The pre-bent shape is not easy to 'move' in the way it
seems it would need to.
No digital camera yet, but I took some analog photos.
Derek Streeter
RV-9A #222
Outside Boulder, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unknown <oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Squeezing trailing edge double flush rivets |
After I saw your note about early ship. I sent them a note asking about
mine which is scheduled for Jan (first week)
There reply led me to believe that they are waiting for Spars to arive. So
you were lucky and either got a cancellation or early spar arrival.
John Oliveira
90054 - N909RV
Scott writes:
>
> Todd
>
> I'm not near my shop, so I can't check but I think we had about the same
> original ship date. Call them and check, that's how I found out. I was
> calling to pay in full before the end of the year and they gave me the news.
> My wife was hoping for a break in the building during the holidays. I
> wonder if I have enough self-restraint to keep from opening those crates -
> nah.
>
> Merry Christmas.
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS skin bend and alignment |
Hate to break the news to you Derek, but something has gone afowl. The HS
should be straight and symetrical. It should have fit together with ease.
I think
you have a potential manufacturing issue to bring up with Vans. They would
probably like to see some photos. Maybe you can locate a friend with a
digital
camera. You definitely want to halt this part of the project now and get
to the
bottom of the problem.
Good luck
Gary Newsted, RV9-Wing'er http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/Builders_Journal.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Streeter <streeter(at)rv9a.sketchy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:58 AM
Subject: RV9-List: HS skin bend and alignment
>
> I was out clecoing the HS ribs and spars into the skin today. It was a
> decent effort to get the front ribs into place, resulting in my taking a
> step back. It appears as though the leading edge bend is not quite
aligned
> with (centered between) the pre-drilled holes. To visualize this, with
the
> skin pushed firmly into the vee-blocks (the bend was centered in the
> blocks), I inserted a small rod into the forward-most rivet holes at the
> outermost front rib location. You would think the rod would be more or
> less horizontal (it was at the innermost rib location) but in the case of
> both of my skins, it was skewed a fair amount. With a bit of coaxing, I
> was able to assemble the entire HS, but the leading edge is noticeably
> tugged down (to the right, looking down the span while in the jig) at the
> outer tip -- like an asymmetric foil shape.
>
> It seems as though the skin was perhaps misaligned during the bend
operation.
>
> Is this usual? The pre-bent shape is not easy to 'move' in the way it
> seems it would need to.
>
> No digital camera yet, but I took some analog photos.
>
> Derek Streeter
> RV-9A #222
> Outside Boulder, CO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | HS skin bend and alignment |
Derek,
The front ribs in my HS required some persuasion too, but the final results
were a symmetrical leading edge.
Scott
RV9-A #200
Elevators / wings in two weeks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/07/00 |
Scott,
Please define your persuasion of the HS nose ribs. I spent about an hour
last night trying to figure out the right side mid and ended up with a
slight intendation in the skins where they mate with the mid-nose rib. Used
"persuasion" and pushed the skins down to the stops in the jig, as did
Derek, and with a slight bending out of the mid-nose rib flanges was able to
get a somewhat flush fit. I noticed it helped to move the jigs closer to
mid-rib, as there appears to be a fair amount of play in the skin. Both
inner and outer nose ribs on both HS went in fine. Second attempt (meaning
the left HS mid-nose rib) yeilded better results as I didn't get the skin
indentation. But it appears I pushed the bottom of the leading edge skin
against the tip of the nose rib when riveting as I now have a slight dent.
Rest of my right HS went together fine, and would appreciate advice on the
mid-nose left HS before continuing. Will start VS in mean time.
Oh, what did you (or anyone) use to set the AD4 rivets on the inner and
outer main ribs as they attach to the spar? I tried a 6" rivet set and had
inconsistent results. Can't get the hand squeezer in there either.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/07/00 |
Scott,
Please define your persuasion of the HS nose ribs. I spent about an hour
last night trying to figure out the right side mid and ended up with a
slight intendation in the skins where they mate with the mid-nose rib. Used
"persuasion" and pushed the skins down to the stops in the jig, as did
Derek, and with a slight bending out of the mid-nose rib flanges was able to
get a somewhat flush fit. I noticed it helped to move the jigs closer to
mid-rib, as there appears to be a fair amount of play in the skin. Both
inner and outer nose ribs on both HS went in fine. Second attempt (meaning
the left HS mid-nose rib) yeilded better results as I didn't get the skin
indentation. But it appears I pushed the bottom of the leading edge skin
against the tip of the nose rib when riveting as I now have a slight dent.
Rest of my right HS went together fine, and would appreciate advice on the
mid-nose left HS before continuing. Will start VS in mean time.
Oh, what did you (or anyone) use to set the AD4 rivets on the inner and
outer main ribs as they attach to the spar? I tried a 6" rivet set and had
inconsistent results. Can't get the hand squeezer in there either.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/07/00) |
Matt,
I found that I had to flute the tips of the HS nose ribs more than I
expected in order to get a good fit to match the contour of the skins and
jigs at the leading edge. They still required some peruasion to get them
pushed into the skin far enough to get the holes aligned, but not enough to
cause any distortion to the skin at the rib tips. With it all cleco'd
together I had fairly nice consistent countours of the skin and ribs.
However, I found that after riveting, the skins got pulled tighter to the
countour of the nose ribs and caused a slight depression of the skins, most
notably at the center nose rib although it did the same at the outer ribs
also. The leading edge is fine back to about the second nose rib rivet,
then theres a slight depression back almost to the spar. I don't believe it
is a result of the fluting at the tips as the distortion is well behind the
fluted area. If I had noticed it when it was clecoed together, I'd maybe
tried bending the rib flanges out slightly as you suggest. It's only
perceptable under the right lighting, or if you run your hand down the
length of the HS, but it's still irritating.
As far as the AD4 rivets on the HS ribs to spar, I was able to squeeze
those using a combination of a 4 inch yoke and a longeron yoke. The most
difficult ones were the inner HS ribs on the front spar near the HS attach
brackets. If you have acces to these yokes, you may be able to squeeze
them.
Good luck!
Todd Houg
RV9A - Fitting the rudder
St. Francis, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/09/00 |
Matt-
I had a spotty time with the nose ribs, too. The first side of the HS, I made
the big mistake of "reaching up" with the clecoes to get that nose rib
snuggled in, and it shows on the outside. The other side, I was much more
aggressive in fluting, anf had a nice, smooth result. I was just too
impatient on the first one.
I'm embarrassed about some of the last spar rivets, too, and I will be
drilling them out as soon as I get the courage. I had the worst result on the
rivets behind the attach angles. I didn't realize the bucking bar was
catching on the angles an mashed the heads terribly. I think I'll take a
lesson from Todd and invest in a big yoke for my squeezer.
Ed Winne
RV-9 emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/09/00 |
Matt,
I didn't use any special technique. I made sure the rib flanges were at 90
degrees to the web. After riveting the 1st side I noticed a surface flaw in
the leading edge tip at the mid rib due to the small "tab" (The "tab" flange
I'm talking about is the small part of the flange at the very tip of the
nose ribs) flange apparently digging into the skin. I had filed off the
small raised area between the forward "tab" flange and the rest of the
flange (per instructions) so that was not the problem. On the other side I
bent the forward corner of the "tab" flange in (away from the skin) and had
no problem with skin defects on the other side. Other than the above having
another builder help with the riveting was all the persuasion I used.
I used both my pneumatic squeezer and my 3X riveter with an offset for the
outside rib/spar join.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/09/00 |
Scott,
Thanks for the info! As I read your reply, a -6A owner came over and said
the bend in the skins looks like an under bending of the leading edge by
Van's and that he noticed it also bowed back out and then in as it reached
the inner and outer ribs. He took a 48" straight edge and when lined
against the skin in front of the forward spar, you could see the "wave".
His suggestion was to hand "massage" the leading edge to relieve this
stress. He also brought over his Chicago Pneumatic handsqueezer with the
longeron yoke and proceeded to make light work of my AD4 rivets.
Thanks again.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/09/00 |
Scott,
Thanks for the info! As I read your reply, a -6A owner came over and said
the bend in the skins looks like an under bending of the leading edge by
Van's and that he noticed it also bowed back out and then in as it reached
the inner and outer ribs. He took a 48" straight edge and when lined
against the skin in front of the forward spar, you could see the "wave".
His suggestion was to hand "massage" the leading edge to relieve this
stress. He also brought over his Chicago Pneumatic handsqueezer with the
longeron yoke and proceeded to make light work of my AD4 rivets.
Thanks again.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage photo on website |
I haven't seen any other -9A builders put up pictures of their fuselage kits
yet, so I added a fuselage photo to my site this morning. If you are
interested, here is the link: http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Streeter <streeter(at)rv9a.sketchy.net> |
| Subject: | follow-up on HS skin bend |
Thanks for your feedback, folks. I sent Vans a photo
(http://rv9a.sketchy.net/images/bad_HS_skin.jpg) of the problem and they
agreed a replacement pair of skins was in order. They hope to send them
today...
And Matt, I 'realized' the same skin dent you did, so on subsequent ribs,
after fluting, I rapped on the forward-most corner of the rib (at the bend
between flange and web) with a light sheet metal hammer -- just enough to
round it off a bit, without really distorting the web. The opposite side
was backed by a 2x4 which I screwed near the edge of the table.
-Derek
Derek Streeter
RV-9A #222
Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: follow-up on HS skin bend |
Glad to see you got that "straightened out". Now that I've heard of one
person
having a problem with the punch-pressed parts, I'll keep a closer eye on my
own
parts. So far everything has been good, aside from some minor shipping
dents.
Good luck, Gary Newsted
----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Streeter <streeter(at)rv9a.sketchy.net>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 2:33 PM
Subject: RV9-List: follow-up on HS skin bend
>
> Thanks for your feedback, folks. I sent Vans a photo
> (http://rv9a.sketchy.net/images/bad_HS_skin.jpg) of the problem and they
> agreed a replacement pair of skins was in order. They hope to send them
> today...
>
> And Matt, I 'realized' the same skin dent you did, so on subsequent ribs,
> after fluting, I rapped on the forward-most corner of the rib (at the bend
> between flange and web) with a light sheet metal hammer -- just enough to
> round it off a bit, without really distorting the web. The opposite side
> was backed by a 2x4 which I screwed near the edge of the table.
>
> -Derek
>
>
> Derek Streeter
> RV-9A #222
> Empennage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rudder Leading Edge Rivets |
Can someone interpret the 6PP plan for me...it shows an "AD-41-ABS" with 2"
spacing on the rudder leading edge. This type of rivet and size doesn't
appear (as near as I can tell) among the bags of rivets and there doesn't
appear to be such an animal in the A/C Spruce catalog either. The
pre-drilled holes are sized for a #40 bit so I would expect to use an AN
470AD-3-3 since the drawing shows a round head rivet...what did you all do
here and where did you find the correct rivet size? Thanks for the help.
Doug Lomheim
OK City, OK (2OK2)
RV-9A (Probably Mazda 13B powered)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Leading Edge Rivets |
Doug,
My bags of hardware did include a bag of AD-41-ABS rivets - these are short
pop-rivets not standard AN rivets. They are a standard round head pop-rivet
with about a quarter inch rivet "shank" for riveting the two thin skins
together. You neeed to use pop rivets as the back side of these rivets is
not accessible when you bring the two skins together. I just used the broom
stick technique to bend the skins and then used these pop rivets to finish
them. One thing you might want to do is use your edge former (you have one
of those right?) to put a slight bend on the outer skin make a nice tight
lap joint.
Good luck,
Todd Houg
RV-9A empennage fiberglass stuff (until my wings come anyway!)
-----Original Message-----
From: DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com [mailto:DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 9:13 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Rudder Leading Edge Rivets
Can someone interpret the 6PP plan for me...it shows an "AD-41-ABS" with 2"
spacing on the rudder leading edge. This type of rivet and size doesn't
appear (as near as I can tell) among the bags of rivets and there doesn't
appear to be such an animal in the A/C Spruce catalog either. The
pre-drilled holes are sized for a #40 bit so I would expect to use an AN
470AD-3-3 since the drawing shows a round head rivet...what did you all do
here and where did you find the correct rivet size? Thanks for the help.
Doug Lomheim
OK City, OK (2OK2)
RV-9A (Probably Mazda 13B powered)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
I am expecting delivery of my wing kit just after Christmas and would like
to get started on my wing jig(s). Does anybody have the recommended
distance between the uprights for the RV9 wing jig?
Also, with the match drilling of the wing parts, I understand the precision
required in leveling the uprights is less critical. Has anybody attempted
to make their wing jigs self supporting on wheels or casters to allow them
to be moved around the shop? I'm considering this approach and hanging a
couple plumb bobs on the end of each post so that after moving, they can be
shimmed to verical if needed. Any thoughts or ideas on this arrangement?
Thanks,
Todd Houg
RV-9A waiting for wings (oh yeah, and empennage fiberglass stuff!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Richardson" <kpd_307(at)hotmail.com> |
Todd,
From the back of the empennage instructions, are a few pages of material
showing pictures of fixtures and such. It states there,(I have not tried
all of it yet) that the H jig shown should be suitable for both VS and Wing.
The picture shows a distance of 133 inches between the uprights on the
inside. My wings are not due until mid January so I have not been able to
measure yet. I cannot comment on the casters, as I have not seen it done.
Good luck and let me know if that measurement is accurate.
Greg
RV-9A Emp. (Riveting at last)
>From: Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net>
>to get started on my wing jig(s). Does anybody have the recommended
>distance between the uprights for the RV9 wing jig?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry <bpote(at)erols.com> |
H frame jig width. RV9a wings
Todd, I too am building a RV9a. Each wing is 132 3/4 inches long.
They tell you in the manual that you should attach a 5" long piece of
angle to one end. Make that out of large 1 1/2"+, not 3/4". 3/4"
doesn't have enough reach to clear the skin overhang. You will be
attaching an arm on each end of the jig that is parallel to the floor.
You sit the wing on top of that.
SO..........if i had it to do again I would make it, between the
uprights, 133" + the width of the above mentioned angle. so, if you
used 2" x 2" x 5" angle, make it 135" between. I made mine about 140"
that's at least 133"! and it matched my roof rafters. I had to jury rig
an arm closer. Hope this helps.
Barry
RV9a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
Todd ,
I called Van's before I got my wings and asked about a jig. They said that
a jig would not be necessary, just a flat table. I made a Jig anyway. I
spent a lot of time trying to make it as precise as possible.
When I got the wings, I put the wing skeleton on the jig and took great care
to try to level it and remove any twist. This was wasted time because when
I clecoed the skins on, the skins forced the spar dead level, and the twist
measured with a plumb was .060!
It is not necessary to build a 'jig', but just a frame to hold the wing for
assembly, and to check for level/twist. IIRC the 133" and the angle
brackets shown on the drawings are good for laying the spar on, but not for
holding the partially completed wing. The root end of the wing sits nicely
on the bracket, but the outboard end has no easy way to attach it to the
frame.
I would appreciate any suggestions on how to attach the outboard end of the
wing to the frame.
> am expecting delivery of my wing kit just after Christmas and would like
> to get started on my wing jig(s). Does anybody have the recommended
> distance between the uprights for the RV9 wing jig?
>
> Also, with the match drilling of the wing parts, I understand the
precision
> required in leveling the uprights is less critical. Has anybody attempted
> to make their wing jigs self supporting on wheels or casters to allow them
> to be moved around the shop? I'm considering this approach and hanging a
> couple plumb bobs on the end of each post so that after moving, they can
be
> shimmed to verical if needed. Any thoughts or ideas on this arrangement?
>
> Thanks,
> Todd Houg
> RV-9A waiting for wings (oh yeah, and empennage fiberglass stuff!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
I have found that the H-Jig I built for my empennage works perfectly well
for
the wings too. I've added cross-members to it to support the spars, and
can work comfortably on both wings at once. During construction, you'll
be cutting fixtures for holding the leading edges in shape. These work
well all by themselves for standing the wing in, or you can modify them
if you want to get fancy with wheels, etc. Look in the Wing Construction
part of my web site to see the jig.
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/Builders_Journal.htm
Also see Chris's site at: http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html for another
example of a good wing fixture. You can even buy these from Aircraft
Spruce
if you want to go that route.
Gary Newsted, 90059
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 12:44 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Wing Jigs
>
> I am expecting delivery of my wing kit just after Christmas and would like
> to get started on my wing jig(s). Does anybody have the recommended
> distance between the uprights for the RV9 wing jig?
>
> Also, with the match drilling of the wing parts, I understand the
precision
> required in leveling the uprights is less critical. Has anybody attempted
> to make their wing jigs self supporting on wheels or casters to allow them
> to be moved around the shop? I'm considering this approach and hanging a
> couple plumb bobs on the end of each post so that after moving, they can
be
> shimmed to verical if needed. Any thoughts or ideas on this arrangement?
>
> Thanks,
> Todd Houg
> RV-9A waiting for wings (oh yeah, and empennage fiberglass stuff!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
Van's suggests drilling a couple 3/16 holes in the outboard main rib to
attach it to the jig angle. This has no impact on strength. Personally, I
just used hardwood cross members on my H-jig and clamp the spar
to them. This supports the center too. Now obviously when I get to
the point of fitting the skins (gosh that's today!) I need to alter this
scheme
and use exterior brackets. My method has worked great for the major
skeleton assembly. I'll go with Van's recommendation for the outboard
external support.
While we're on this subject, can anyone ahead of me tell me their views
on priming the main spar? I realize its annodized, but the construction
process has opened the annodizing around the rivets. Do you just primer
over the riveted areas or are people primering the whole thing before
closing the wings?
Also, where are people mounting their strobe power supplies? I have the
dual supply option. Options seem to be to mount them on the outboard
main ribs inside the tips, or on back of my landing light mounts, or further
inboard. The wiring harness allows them to be mounted anywhere
outboard of the tanks. Ideas?
Gary Newsted, #59
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Larsen <slickrock@been-there.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Wing Jigs
>
> Todd ,
>
> The root end of the wing sits nicely
> on the bracket, but the outboard end has no easy way to attach it to the
> frame.
>
> I would appreciate any suggestions on how to attach the outboard end of
the
> wing to the frame.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer on spars |
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
> While we're on this subject, can anyone ahead of me tell me their views
> on priming the main spar? I realize its annodized, but the construction
> process has opened the annodizing around the rivets. Do you just primer
> over the riveted areas or are people primering the whole thing before
> closing the wings?
>
>
> Gary Newsted, #59
>
Gary,
I had a conversation with a lady at Phlogiston Products, which is the
company that assembles the spars for Van's. She recommended that I spray
zinc oxide over any areas where the annodizing gets removed. I plan to
follow her advice, unless I hear a good argument for priming the entire
spar.
Mark Schrimmer
#90002
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry <bpote(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer on spars |
I, too, am spot priming, where needed.
Barry
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
>
>
> > While we're on this subject, can anyone ahead of me tell me their views
> > on priming the main spar? I realize its annodized, but the construction
> > process has opened the annodizing around the rivets. Do you just primer
> > over the riveted areas or are people primering the whole thing before
> > closing the wings?
> >
> >
> > Gary Newsted, #59
> >
>
> Gary,
>
> I had a conversation with a lady at Phlogiston Products, which is the
> company that assembles the spars for Van's. She recommended that I spray
> zinc oxide over any areas where the annodizing gets removed. I plan to
> follow her advice, unless I hear a good argument for priming the entire
> spar.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> #90002
> Irvine, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
> While we're on this subject, can anyone ahead of me tell me their views
> on priming the main spar? I realize its annodized, but the construction
> process has opened the annodizing around the rivets. Do you just primer
> over the riveted areas or are people primering the whole thing before
> closing the wings?
Gary,
The guy in the hangar next to me just got a an RV6 quick build. Everything
inside the wing is primed, even the beautiful anodized spar. I would just
prime around the rivet heads.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
Thanks to all who responded with Ideas for the wing jig. Now that I look
closer at the H frame diagram included with the empennage assembly
instructions, I see the 133" measurement, I'm sure it wasn't there the
other night! ;)
After hearing from a few other builders and Van's regarding the match
drilled wings, it sounds like the jig is not that critical - actually it's
not even necessary, just convenient. My current plan is to construct a pair
of mobile wing jigs that I can roll around the shop. I'll take some
pictures when they're complete and post them on the web for everyone to
take a look at. If I could just get all this Christmas stuff out of the way
so I can get back to building!
Thanks again,
Todd Houg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 12/14/00 |
Todd,
I built my jig out of 14 gauge 3x3" tube steel with a 12' horizontal run. I
used 2x6" channel for feet and put four 1/2" carriage bolts through each
foot so that I could level the entire thing. I'm constrained by my garage
door to be able to use the ceiling joists as Gary Newsted's website
suggests. However, if you have that space available I highly recommend his
design-simple and effective. My jig is self standing and I can move it
around the garage for space requirements. I mounted a 2x4 on the horizontal
as my work surface. I can change the size of the board on the horizontal as
needs require. And the entire thing, other than the vertical stands is
bolted together for ease of transportation/storage. Other than the steel
(cost of $80), everything else came from Home Depot. I was fortunate enough
to have a friend teach me Mig welding to be able to put the thing together.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp (HS done, working on VS)
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 12/14/00 |
Todd,
I built my jig out of 14 gauge 3x3" tube steel with a 12' horizontal run. I
used 2x6" channel for feet and put four 1/2" carriage bolts through each
foot so that I could level the entire thing. I'm constrained by my garage
door to be able to use the ceiling joists as Gary Newsted's website
suggests. However, if you have that space available I highly recommend his
design-simple and effective. My jig is self standing and I can move it
around the garage for space requirements. I mounted a 2x4 on the horizontal
as my work surface. I can change the size of the board on the horizontal as
needs require. And the entire thing, other than the vertical stands is
bolted together for ease of transportation/storage. Other than the steel
(cost of $80), everything else came from Home Depot. I was fortunate enough
to have a friend teach me Mig welding to be able to put the thing together.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Emp (HS done, working on VS)
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | a warning for RV-9A fuselage builders |
I posted the following on the general rv-list earlier today. There doesn't
seem to be much activity on the rv9-list, but I thought that I would also
post it here in case there are rv9 builders that only subscribe to the
model-specific list.
Earlier Message:
If any RV-9A fuselage builders are far enough along to be working on the
front deck for the sliding canopy, you don't want to rivet the
1/8"x3/4"x3/4" angle to the center rib as the manual instructs you to do.
Apparently, the angle will have to be modified later to eliminate an
interference with the roll bar brace when finish kits are shipped. Details
can be seen here: http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/corrections.html
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Question |
Some of my RV-6 friends told me to be sure to temporarily attach the fuel
tanks to the wings while the sealant sets up...some of them built the tanks
and just set them aside while they cured and later found that they were off
slightly (when trying to attach them to the wings). They say that once the
sealant has set up they don't move which resulted in a small but noticeable
gap. Does anyone know if this is a problem on the RV-9A with match drilling,
etc. Many on the group are now getting into this phase of construction but I
don't have wing plans yet to see if they call this out as something to avoid
or not. Happy New Year and I look forward to seeing some pictures of some of
you guys flying in 2001!
Doug Lomheim
Right Elevator prep.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Question |
I'm at that point right now. The match-hole tooling certainly helps to keep
things straight, but I would (and will) go along with the idea of screwing
the
tanks onto the spars while things set up. The sealing process is slow and
requires several days of work, but the sealant cures so slowly that I would
not expect to have problems with timing and getting it fastened to the
spars.
At this time of year in New England, I don't expect to see the Thiokol turn
solid for several days, if not several weeks. In warmer parts of the
globe, this
might not be the case and you would have to reduce the number of sessions
in order to conserve curing time. Once the ribs are riveted in place, the
sections are pretty solid, but I suspect the rear baffle could induce a
slight twist if you were careless. The best insurance is to dry-fit
everything
per plan to begin with. This calls for fastening it to the spar. One
place you
could go wrong, is not double-checking the fit after dimpling, particularly
the
#8 screws that hold it to the spar. Some gentle tapping and hand sanding is
inevitable to get a good fit. Do this before sealing and you should be OK.
...now if Vans wanted to work on one thing that would make RV's safer and
easier to build, it would be eliminating the use of this sealant! There
has got
to be a better way to build a fuel tank!!! Even my 8yr old daughter said
"why
are there so many holes in a fuel tank?" Need I say more!
Gary Newsted #59
----- Original Message -----
From: <DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:56 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel Tank Question
>
> Some of my RV-6 friends told me to be sure to temporarily attach the fuel
> tanks to the wings while the sealant sets up...some of them built the
tanks
> and just set them aside while they cured and later found that they were
off
> slightly (when trying to attach them to the wings). They say that once t
he
> sealant has set up they don't move which resulted in a small but
noticeable
> gap. Does anyone know if this is a problem on the RV-9A with match
drilling,
> etc. Many on the group are now getting into this phase of construction
but I
> don't have wing plans yet to see if they call this out as something to
avoid
> or not. Happy New Year and I look forward to seeing some pictures of some
of
> you guys flying in 2001!
>
> Doug Lomheim
> Right Elevator prep.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rlluster" <rlluster(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tank installation |
> From: DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Fuel Tank Question
>
>
> Some of my RV-6 friends told me to be sure to temporarily attach the fuel
> tanks to the wings while the sealant sets up...some of them built the
tanks
> and just set them aside while they cured and later found that they were
off
> slightly (when trying to attach them to the wings). They say that once
the
> sealant has set up they don't move which resulted in a small but
noticeable
> gap. Does anyone know if this is a problem on the RV-9A with match
drilling,
> etc. Many on the group are now getting into this phase of construction
but I
> don't have wing plans yet to see if they call this out as something to
avoid
> or not. Happy New Year and I look forward to seeing some pictures of some
of
> you guys flying in 2001!
>
> Doug Lomheim
> Right Elevator prep.
____
> From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fuel Tank Question
>
>
> I'm at that point right now. The match-hole tooling certainly helps to
keep
> things straight, but I would (and will) go along with the idea of screwing
> the
> tanks onto the spars while things set up. The sealing process is slow
and
> requires several days of work, but the sealant cures so slowly that I
would
> not expect to have problems with timing and getting it fastened to the
> spars.
> At this time of year in New England, I don't expect to see the Thiokol
turn
> solid for several days, if not several weeks. In warmer parts of the
> globe, this
> might not be the case and you would have to reduce the number of sessions
> in order to conserve curing time. Once the ribs are riveted in place,
the
> sections are pretty solid, but I suspect the rear baffle could induce a
> slight twist if you were careless. The best insurance is to dry-fit
> everything
> per plan to begin with. This calls for fastening it to the spar. One
> place you
> could go wrong, is not double-checking the fit after dimpling,
particularly
> the
> #8 screws that hold it to the spar. Some gentle tapping and hand sanding
is
> inevitable to get a good fit. Do this before sealing and you should be
OK.
>
> ...now if Vans wanted to work on one thing that would make RV's safer and
> easier to build, it would be eliminating the use of this sealant! There
> has got
> to be a better way to build a fuel tank!!! Even my 8yr old daughter said
> "why
> are there so many holes in a fuel tank?" Need I say more!
>
> Gary Newsted #59
>
Doug and Gary
I just finished installing my tanks onto my main spar and was very surprised
to find that they were not as I had expected. They were much tighter that I
figured they would be. I allowed the tanks to cure off of the spar (not
anticipating any miss alignment), then when I mounted them to the spar, I
started by inserting the screws first (every other one), when I went to
install the bolts into the angle brackets, I found them not to be aligned as
I thought they should be. At that point, I unloosed the screws in the top
and bottom (giving me just enough movement to realign the bolt holes) and
inserted the bolts. I am not sure if the miss-alignment is due to the
process of assembly. The mis-alignment was to a maximum error of about .025,
all of the seams are good and I can not see anything at this point that
would be a problem. The majority of the alignment was good, just the first
angle bracket was to the error mentioned. My recommendation is to start by
putting your bolts in first, then inserting the screws.
Richard Luster
Marysville, WA
RV9A, wings and fuselage
reserved N909RL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alvin Jones <ajones(at)dfn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: List of Contributors #2! |
I made a contibution by credit card to the rv-9a list but did not make
your list. Did it not go through? I recall receiving confirmation .
Please advise Alvin
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Hello Listers!
>
> As promised, here is the follow up list of this year's List of Contributors
> that made contributions since the posting of the first List of
> Contributors on December 1.
>
> I would like to personally thank everyone that so generously made a
> contribution this year. I am happy to report that both the total number
> of contributors and the percentage of contributors were both up this
> year over previous years.
>
> Thanks again to everyone that made a contribution and who helped keep
> these Lists running!
>
> I would also like to thank Al and Eric once again for their support and
> help with this year's Fund Raiser. Thanks guys!
>
> Best regards for the new year!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin
>
> ========================================================================
> ========================================================================
>
> Benjamin, Hal
> Bronson, Tim
> Brusilow, Michael
> Buchmann, Ken
> Burkholder, Jimmy
> Bush, Robert
> Cannon, Randy
> Captain Kaos (aka Grant Booth)
> Carr, Patrick
> Cummings, Tom
> Daudt, Larry
> Deiterich, Charles
> Dortch, Steven
> Downing, John
> Driver, Stuart
> Fay, John
> Finch, Kenneth
> Gauthier, Joe
> Gold, Andy - Builder's Bookstore
> Graumlich, Thomas
> Green, Steven
> Hagen, Craig
> Hauck, John
> Herren, Bill
> Irwin, Eric
> Isaacson, M.
> Jenkins, John
> Johnson, Jackie
> Juneau, Ronald
> Killion, Clay
> Kirby, Dennis
> Laurence, Peter
> Longino, Dana
> Lorimor, Jeffery
> Mandell, Tom
> McCallum, Bob
> Milgrom, Mark
> Mitchell, Duane
> Musson, Brian
> Noonan, Thomas
> Nuckolls, Robert III
> Pessel, Garnett
> Pridgen, Richard
> Ray, Carl
> Rogers, Ken
> Santic, Marty
> Sears, James Jr
> Shettel, Maurice
> Slatt, Gary
> Slyfield, F.J. III
> Smith, Gene
> Snedaker, Robert - Fairings Etc.
> Snyder, Walt
> Stansbery, Gene
> Stefan, Leon
> Swan, Earle
> Swenson, Guy
> Tarabocchia, John
> Ulicny, George
> Waligroski, Gregg
> Webster, Dean
> Williams, Henry III
> Winne, Edward
> Zirges. Malcolm
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Wings and web page |
Hello all!
I haven't seen much traffic on the -9 list for a few days so I thought I'd
generate a little . . .
I pretty much completed my empennage before Christmas and I've been
anxiously awaiting the arrival of my wing kit which was scheduled to ship
last Tuesday. Prior to New Years Van's was waiting on spars from
Phlogiston. Now they have the spars and are done with year end inventory,
but they don't have any longeron material to ship! I just talked to them
today and they expected the longeron material today and will hopefully ship
in the next couple days. So anyway, my downtime has given me a chance to
put a few web pages together with some pictures and descriptions of my
progress so far. You can take a look at http://www.toddhoug.com. Let me
know if you have any trouble or find any broken links.
Also, I've been checking out pictures on the web of other builders wings
and can't help but notice how short the inboard end of the spar appears to
be. I know the iboard spar ends of the -6 and -8 extend all the way through
the fuselage and meet in the center. Since I don't have my wings or plans
yet I can't tell what the spar carry through looks like. From what I can
tell, the -9 spars don't look long enough to extend into the fuse and meet
in the center. What does the carry spar carry through look like?
Thanks,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
http://www.toddhoug.com
Waiting for wings (anxiously!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wings and web page |
The wing spars extend about 6" into the center spar, which
is 42" wide. It has full width bars, top and bottom, similar to
the wing spar reinforcements, and double-layers of channel.
There's a number of small spacer blocks that come with it.
When it is fully assembled, it forms a boxed assembly that
you slip the wing spars into and fasten with 8 bolts (possibly
more, I haven't seen that part of the plans yet).
In addition to the main spar, the wings are secured by the
rear spar and leading edge (tank) brackets. Looks plenty
strong to me. Because the center spar is matched to the
main spars, it is shipped with the wing kit, even though it is
not needed until you build the fuse. The longerons are shipped
with the wing only because it saves them from having to build
another 16' long wooden crate! Be careful not to accidentally
use the longeron material during wing construction. I've heard
reports of this happening because the plans are not entirely
clear about which pieces you can use to make other wing parts
from (although the longerons are clearly labeled...).
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Hi Todd,
I checked out your web site and thought it was excellent--Nice job!
I saw your section on priming and it reminded me of a problem I'm having. It
seems like I can never get the primer to cover right. Either it's so thin
that not all of the metal is covered, or it's so thick that I have runs in
some places and the metal has turned a very dark green. I usually have to
give everything 3 coats until I'm sure that all of the skin has at least a
very thin amount of coverage--but by then some areas are way overcoated.
I've often wondered if applying primer with a brush might be easier? Anybody
care to comment . . .
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Gibbs <agibbs(at)tideworks.com> |
| Subject: | HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
I'm about to drill my first hole today. I have one concern however, both
spar doubler plates (HS-907 for example) do not lay flat on the table, they
are quite bowed probably from the shearing/stamping process. Does anyone
know how to (or if I have to) straighten these parts out so the spar will
lie straight once assembled?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
| Subject: | HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
Alex,
Not to worry! Mine were the same way, however after you cleco them to the HS
spars they will be forced to lie flat against the spars. Since the spars but
against each other the curvature of the plates is insignificant as they will
be held flat against the spars by the rivets and clecos. Go ahead and cleco
the plates to the spars in preperation for match drilling, you shouldn't
have any problems.
Good Luck,
Todd Houg
Waiting for wings . . .
http://www.toddhoug.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Gibbs [mailto:agibbs(at)tideworks.com]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:25 AM
Subject: RV9-List: HS spar doubler plates are bowed
I'm about to drill my first hole today. I have one concern however, both
spar doubler plates (HS-907 for example) do not lay flat on the table, they
are quite bowed probably from the shearing/stamping process. Does anyone
know how to (or if I have to) straighten these parts out so the spar will
lie straight once assembled?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl W.Brabandt" <ewb67(at)powernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
I have done this part and found that this is not a problem. Flanges usually
do not allow the spar to change. With the pre-punching I did not get a
twist or a bowing effect.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Gibbs" <agibbs(at)tideworks.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: RV9-List: HS spar doubler plates are bowed
>
> I'm about to drill my first hole today. I have one concern however, both
> spar doubler plates (HS-907 for example) do not lay flat on the table,
they
> are quite bowed probably from the shearing/stamping process. Does anyone
> know how to (or if I have to) straighten these parts out so the spar will
> lie straight once assembled?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl W.Brabandt" <ewb67(at)powernet.net> |
In talking with many pros in the field I have been told that you do not need
a heavy coat. In fact, the military do not prim at all. I did prim every
part but I did not have any problems since I only wanted to get a "covering
coat" on that parts. If you have any questions call the company that makes
the primer you are using. The tech. are great and more than willing go give
us help.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:44 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Web site
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> I checked out your web site and thought it was excellent--Nice job!
>
> I saw your section on priming and it reminded me of a problem I'm having.
It
> seems like I can never get the primer to cover right. Either it's so thin
> that not all of the metal is covered, or it's so thick that I have runs in
> some places and the metal has turned a very dark green. I usually have to
> give everything 3 coats until I'm sure that all of the skin has at least a
> very thin amount of coverage--but by then some areas are way overcoated.
> I've often wondered if applying primer with a brush might be easier?
Anybody
> care to comment . . .
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> RV-9A
> Irvine, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
Alex,
I straightened mine somewhat. Just did it by hand against the bench. Easy to
do.
Cliff
> I'm about to drill my first hole today. I have one concern however, both
> spar doubler plates (HS-907 for example) do not lay flat on the table,
they
> are quite bowed probably from the shearing/stamping process. Does anyone
> know how to (or if I have to) straighten these parts out so the spar will
> lie straight once assembled?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry <bpote(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
I just drilled and riveted them. No problem.
BARRY RV9a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
I am just finished with my HS and I had the same concern as you do. I
queried Van's online support and they said, as you surmised, that it was a
result of stamping process and not worry about it. They did say I could put
it across my knee and straighten it if I wanted.
Dennis Thomas
RV-9A Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
> I am just finished with my HS and I had the same concern as you do. I
> queried Van's online support and they said, as you surmised, that it was a
> result of stamping process and not worry about it. They did say I could put
> it across my knee and straighten it if I wanted.
>
> Dennis Thomas
> RV-9A Emp
Van's told me the same thing, so I very gently bent mine straight.
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/11/01 |
can't help but notice how short the inboard end of the spar appears to
be. I know the inboard spar ends of the -6 and -8 extend all the way through
the fuselage and meet in the center.
Hi;
I'm new to the list, but into the wings already. There is a separate center
section of the spar which goes through the fuselage. It doesn't get used
until you are on the fuselage, so you wouldn't see it in builders pics yet.
Todd Bartrim
Prince George, B.C. Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Johnson <sessna(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS spar doubler plates are bowed |
Alex, I had the same question and called Van's. Both of the men I spoke with
said it was not unusual and go ahead and rivet. Patricia Johnson
Alex Gibbs wrote:
>
> I'm about to drill my first hole today. I have one concern however, both
> spar doubler plates (HS-907 for example) do not lay flat on the table, they
> are quite bowed probably from the shearing/stamping process. Does anyone
> know how to (or if I have to) straighten these parts out so the spar will
> lie straight once assembled?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Priming - Was: Web site |
Mark,
Thanks for the kind words regarding my website!
The PPG wash primer that I'm using is supposed to be applied in light
translucent coats. Even when I had the gun adjusted for way to heavy a
spray, it still went on translucent and then just ran off in sheets. PPG
recommends light coats, with just a few minutes flash time if multiple
coats are desired. My spraying strategy was to spray a thin but full
covering coat on an entire table full of parts on all sides that are
accessible, and then go back and flip the parts over and spray This primer
flashes fast enough that by the time if finish at one end the parts at the
other end can be handled. After spraying the remaining surfaces, I go back
and look over each part touching up as needed and usually spraying a second
light coat over the fayed surfaces (mating surfaces) for added protection.
When done you can still see my marks through the primer and even make out
the abrasions from the scotch-brite pads that I used to prep it.
Are you using the same PPG primer? It is very easy to put it on to heavy
and cause runs. I had to back the spray gun way off to spray a light enough
coat that I could overlap the spray pattern between strokes.
Good Luck,
Todd Houg
Waiting for Wings
Hi Todd,
I checked out your web site and thought it was excellent--Nice job!
I saw your section on priming and it reminded me of a problem I'm having.
It
seems like I can never get the primer to cover right. Either it's so thin
that not all of the metal is covered, or it's so thick that I have runs in
some places and the metal has turned a very dark green. I usually have to
give everything 3 coats until I'm sure that all of the skin has at least a
very thin amount of coverage--but by then some areas are way overcoated.
I've often wondered if applying primer with a brush might be easier?
Anybody
care to comment . . .
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wings and web page |
I just recieved my wing kit on Tuesday, the 9th. It was shipped by
Van's on about the 27th, which was a week ahead of schedule. I guess
they wanted to get stuff out that was ready before the inventory. It
was in town the by Friday the 5th, but I scheduled with the trucking
company to avoid work conflicts for me.
It is inventoried and lot's more parts to say the least. The spars are
gorgeous!! Sure was cold uncrating in the Garage. Glad to get
everything into the basement.
Tail has been done since Dec 1, and I am ready to go on the wings. By
the way, I was looking at a friends 8a last Saturday and there spars are
the same sort of stubs that only go in about 6 inches.
John Oliveira
Rochester NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Upgrade... |
B
Dear Listers,
I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server this afternoon (1/21/01)
and will be taking it offline for a number of hours. I hope to have it
back online by this evening sometime, depending on how well the upgrade
goes.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Pre-Punched VFR Instrument Panel |
Listers:
Has anyone any details of Van's pre-punched VFR panel? I was surprised to
see it offerred on the new RV-9A Order form, as part of the fuselage kit. I
am at least a month away from ordering it. It includes holes for the
engine, flight instruments and a simple radio stack. I couldn't find
anything on their web-site or on-line catalogue. It is listed at $25.00.
Sounds like something that a basic VFR person (me) would be interested in.
Any additional holes would undoubtedly be in a blank area, anyway. Could
save a lot of work.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Punched VFR Instrument Panel |
When I saw it, I sent Vans an E-mail asking for details on the lay out.
They directed me to the pictures of the 2nd prototypes panel on their
Web page.
John Oliveira
Building Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Punched VFR Instrument Panel |
Ernest,
This is the same panel that is in Van's new 9A demonstrator. They have a
picture on their website, but I have one that is a little better at this
site: http://members4.clubphoto.com/clifford285117/
look in the RV9A folder.
Cliff
Wing arrived yesterday!!
Erie, CO
>
> Listers:
> Has anyone any details of Van's pre-punched VFR panel? I was surprised to
> see it offerred on the new RV-9A Order form, as part of the fuselage kit.
I
> am at least a month away from ordering it. It includes holes for the
> engine, flight instruments and a simple radio stack. I couldn't find
> anything on their web-site or on-line catalogue. It is listed at $25.00.
> Sounds like something that a basic VFR person (me) would be interested in.
> Any additional holes would undoubtedly be in a blank area, anyway. Could
> save a lot of work.
> Ernest Kells
> RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
> Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpote <bpote(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Punched VFR Instrument Panel |
Ii CALLED VAN'S TODAY. If you order the panel outright it's $60. The glove box
is
anotherr $30 or $35. No one at the order desk knew the hole sizes. Of course if
you order it with the fuse, it's $25 option. It's build around the prototype.
Problem is, if you don't want to duplicate that panel exactly, it would become
ugly pretty quick. They also told me that the hole panel; is punched at once, so
there are no 'partial punches'. Something to think about.
Barry Pote
RV9a wings
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
> > This is the same panel that is in Van's new 9A demonstrator. They have a
> > picture on their website, but I have one that is a little better at this
> > Erie, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/23/01 |
I just returned from a visit to Van's and saw the pre-punched VFR panel. It
has your basic 6, a single radio port and numerous holes for engine gauges.
It also provides extra room for your own additions. Not bad for basic VFR.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Rudder
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/23/01 |
I just returned from a visit to Van's and saw the pre-punched VFR panel. It
has your basic 6, a single radio port and numerous holes for engine gauges.
It also provides extra room for your own additions. Not bad for basic VFR.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Rudder
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Streeter <streeter(at)rv9a.sketchy.net> |
| Subject: | 9A panel dimensions |
Any of the fuse builders know the dimensions of the 9A instrument panel?
-Derek
Louisville, CO
empennage on the table, wing in the crate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | W-920-L/R - where do they go? |
OK, I finished inventory of my newly acquired wing kit and appear to have
come up short on two pieces of aluminum angle - AA6-063x3/4x3/4x12'. As
indicated in the part number these are 12' long pieces. In checking through
the phantom parts I find only two types are parts to be fabricated out of
AA6-063. These are 3 each W-925C-L/R and 2 each W-920-L/R. I can find the
W-925C-L/R pieces on the plans and they appear to be short pieces used to
reinforce the flap and aileron hinge brackets. However, I can't find any
indication on the plans of the W-920-L/R parts. Van's has not yet provided
a parts index (section 4 of the manual), so I'm lost trying to figure out
where these 12' long pieces are needed.
I'll talk to Van's tomorrow, but shipping costs for these two pieces alone
will far exceed the value.
Thanks,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
http://www.toddhoug.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | W-920-L/R - where do they go? |
Todd,
Those are the tie-down attach angles - see drawing 11.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Todd Houg
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:28 PM
Subject: RV9-List: W-920-L/R - where do they go?
OK, I finished inventory of my newly acquired wing kit and appear to have
come up short on two pieces of aluminum angle - AA6-063x3/4x3/4x12'. As
indicated in the part number these are 12' long pieces. In checking through
the phantom parts I find only two types are parts to be fabricated out of
AA6-063. These are 3 each W-925C-L/R and 2 each W-920-L/R. I can find the
W-925C-L/R pieces on the plans and they appear to be short pieces used to
reinforce the flap and aileron hinge brackets. However, I can't find any
indication on the plans of the W-920-L/R parts. Van's has not yet provided
a parts index (section 4 of the manual), so I'm lost trying to figure out
where these 12' long pieces are needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie MacMurray" <Imapinepig(at)earthlink.net> |
Howdy folks
I just faxed in my order for my tail kit today.
Going to order my tools from Avery in the morning.
Anybody building in the San Jose CA area?
I'd like to take a look at some work in progress.
Might even be able to help a little (I was airframe repair in the USAF, top
of my class to boot)
Thanks
Charlie
Tail Kit ( haven't even seen it yet)
Imapinepig(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | 9A panel dimensions |
Derek,
The maximum width is 41 7/16 and max. height is 10 7/8 not including the
bottom extension for throttle, mixture & carb heat (separate piece).
I would like to get an AutoCAD drawing from Van's so I can layout my panel.
However, I haven't asked Van's about this yet. Has anyone else gotten a copy
from Van's?
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Derek Streeter
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 4:35 PM
Subject: RV9-List: 9A panel dimensions
Any of the fuse builders know the dimensions of the 9A instrument panel?
-Derek
Louisville, CO
empennage on the table, wing in the crate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: W-920-L/R - where do they go? |
They are fuselage longerons - I think you will probably need them .
Mine had them
John Oliveira
Seems like a lot of us just recieved wing kits
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcel Bourgon" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: W-920-L/R - where do they go? |
Good morning from El Paso
I also wondered what they were. I called van's and asked them what the
paddles were for. They are matched drilled with the main spars and will be
used when we build the fuselage.
Marcel--Working on wings
----- Original Message -----
From: John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: W-920-L/R - where do they go?
>
> They are fuselage longerons - I think you will probably need them .
> Mine had them
>
> John Oliveira
>
> Seems like a lot of us just recieved wing kits
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcel Bourgon" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: W-920-L/R - where do they go? |
Sorry about that I gave you some bad info. earlier.
The 920 l&r are the small angles that hold the tie down bar. They are made
from a piece of 3/4" aluminum that was shipped with your kit. Do not cut up
your longerons. they should be well marked and will be used latter in
fuselage construction. When you drill the holes for this piece watch
yourself because there seems to be a conflict with the bolts and nut plates.
Take a minute before your make them I think the plans are wrong. Ours
worked but were a bit of a pain
Sorry about the bad info.
Marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcel Bourgon <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: W-920-L/R - where do they go?
>
> Good morning from El Paso
> I also wondered what they were. I called van's and asked them what the
> paddles were for. They are matched drilled with the main spars and will
be
> used when we build the fuselage.
> Marcel--Working on wings
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:15 AM
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: W-920-L/R - where do they go?
>
>
> >
> > They are fuselage longerons - I think you will probably need them .
> > Mine had them
> >
> > John Oliveira
> >
> > Seems like a lot of us just recieved wing kits
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | W-920-L/R - where do they go? |
> OK, I finished inventory of my newly acquired wing kit and appear to have
> come up short on two pieces of aluminum angle - AA6-063x3/4x3/4x12'.
Todd and others:
You should check the parts that you received against the packing slip. The
Parts person at Vans will check off the parts (in red pencil??) as each part
or bag is packed. If they checked it and you don't have it make certain
that you really "don't have it". It could be a phantom part or be listed
under a pre-cut part number. However, if they don't pick the part you won't
have it and they wouldn't have marked it on the packing slip. Make certain
that you don't have it or that you haven't miss identified it or confused it
with something else - you may have "received something twice".
When I was starting to skin the wing I realized that I was missing the
stiffener material. That's the J-Stiff material (J Stringer). You'd think
that I couldn't miss about 20 feet of aluminum. Duh!! I proceeded to build
the ailerons and flaps while waiting for the PVC tube to arrive. If the
tube of J stringer material doesn't show up in a couple of days I will be
delayed again. This may be an area of their sloppiness. You probably do
better with the small stuff because one person would sub-assembly parts
another would ship them - a two-part process. The big stuff would just get
grabbed from its bin when shipped. Good luck. If it has been a couple of
months or so you will probably have to pay the shipping costs.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Wood <brywd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New 9A builder |
Hi Charlie,
I am on the wings on my RV-9A, and live in San Jose. Welcome to the group, and
feel free to contact me any time. brywd(at)pacbell.net I'll be glad to show you
around the my garage and work together a bit.
Take care,
Bryan
Charlie MacMurray wrote:
>
> Howdy folks
>
> I just faxed in my order for my tail kit today.
> Going to order my tools from Avery in the morning.
> Anybody building in the San Jose CA area?
> I'd like to take a look at some work in progress.
> Might even be able to help a little (I was airframe repair in the USAF, top
> of my class to boot)
>
> Thanks
>
> Charlie
> Tail Kit ( haven't even seen it yet)
> Imapinepig(at)earthlink.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rlluster" <rlluster(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 9A panel dimensions |
Derek:
The dimension for the RV9A panel are as follows:
41.296 wide by 10.877 high, the lower cut outs are 2.58 wide by 3.5 high.
The curve cooridates are from the lower corner, and are mirrored for the
opposite side:
Over up
.000 3.500
.066 4.231
.551 5.538
1.565 7.005
3.071 8.333
5.402 9.520
8.320 10.320
13.591 10.867
These numbers were taken directly from my panel, as received from Van's. I
have an inspection department at my shop and I used a CMM (cooridinate
measuring machine) to get these dimensions.
Hope this lets you get started on your panel design. That is currently what
I am doing as well.
Richard Luster
RV9A, wings and fuselage
N909RL, reserved
Arlington, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: C J Heitman <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: 9A panel dimensions
>
> Derek,
>
> The maximum width is 41 7/16 and max. height is 10 7/8 not including the
> bottom extension for throttle, mixture & carb heat (separate piece).
>
> I would like to get an AutoCAD drawing from Van's so I can layout my
panel.
> However, I haven't asked Van's about this yet. Has anyone else gotten a
copy
> from Van's?
>
> Chris Heitman
> Dousman WI
> RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
> Fuselage
> http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Derek Streeter
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 4:35 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: 9A panel dimensions
>
>
> Any of the fuse builders know the dimensions of the 9A instrument panel?
>
> -Derek
>
> Louisville, CO
> empennage on the table, wing in the crate
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
| Subject: | 9A panel dimensions |
Excellent information Richard!
That's one to keep on file!
Now, based on Richard's dimensions, is anybody planning on creating an
AutoCAD DXF file (or other industry standard drawing file format) that can
be used as a template that they would be willing to share?
Thanks,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
http://www.toddhoug.com
Starting the Wings!
-----Original Message-----
From: rlluster [mailto:rlluster(at)msn.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: 9A panel dimensions
Derek:
The dimension for the RV9A panel are as follows:
41.296 wide by 10.877 high, the lower cut outs are 2.58 wide by 3.5 high.
The curve cooridates are from the lower corner, and are mirrored for the
opposite side:
Over up
.000 3.500
.066 4.231
.551 5.538
1.565 7.005
3.071 8.333
5.402 9.520
8.320 10.320
13.591 10.867
These numbers were taken directly from my panel, as received from Van's. I
have an inspection department at my shop and I used a CMM (cooridinate
measuring machine) to get these dimensions.
Hope this lets you get started on your panel design. That is currently what
I am doing as well.
Richard Luster
RV9A, wings and fuselage
N909RL, reserved
Arlington, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: C J Heitman <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: 9A panel dimensions
>
> Derek,
>
> The maximum width is 41 7/16 and max. height is 10 7/8 not including the
> bottom extension for throttle, mixture & carb heat (separate piece).
>
> I would like to get an AutoCAD drawing from Van's so I can layout my
panel.
> However, I haven't asked Van's about this yet. Has anyone else gotten a
copy
> from Van's?
>
> Chris Heitman
> Dousman WI
> RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
> Fuselage
> http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Derek Streeter
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 4:35 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: 9A panel dimensions
>
>
> Any of the fuse builders know the dimensions of the 9A instrument panel?
>
> -Derek
>
> Louisville, CO
> empennage on the table, wing in the crate
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
| Subject: | W-920-L/R - where do they go? |
Thanks Marcel and others,
I have the longerons set aside, those are not the parts that are missing.
And it was my thorough inventory that lead me to the only apparently missing
items, even though they were checked off by the stock picker.
I'm at work so I don't have the access to the plans, but I'll look closer at
the tiedown block attachments when I get home. My assumption is that the
W-920-L/R pieces are relatively short - several inches maybe? The two pieces
of missing stock are AA6-063x3/4x3/4x12' which by their part number are 12
feet long (No I didn't mistake the ' for "). Doesn't seem like you would
need this much stock for a few W-920's and W-925C's.
Anyway, I've asked Van's and will check on their response when I get home
this evening. I have no doubt they'll get them to me, hopefully they can be
cut down to make shipping easier.
Thanks for the info,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
http://www.toddhoug.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcel Bourgon [mailto:mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: W-920-L/R - where do they go?
Sorry about that I gave you some bad info. earlier.
The 920 l&r are the small angles that hold the tie down bar. They are made
from a piece of 3/4" aluminum that was shipped with your kit. Do not cut up
your longerons. they should be well marked and will be used latter in
fuselage construction. When you drill the holes for this piece watch
yourself because there seems to be a conflict with the bolts and nut plates.
Take a minute before your make them I think the plans are wrong. Ours
worked but were a bit of a pain
Sorry about the bad info.
Marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcel Bourgon <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: W-920-L/R - where do they go?
>
> Good morning from El Paso
> I also wondered what they were. I called van's and asked them what the
> paddles were for. They are matched drilled with the main spars and will
be
> used when we build the fuselage.
> Marcel--Working on wings
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:15 AM
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: W-920-L/R - where do they go?
>
>
> >
> > They are fuselage longerons - I think you will probably need them .
> > Mine had them
> >
> > John Oliveira
> >
> > Seems like a lot of us just recieved wing kits
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | W-920 mystery solved! |
I knew the Longerons were in there for the fuselage, but Gus informed me
that most of the AA6-063 was for the fuselage also. To add to my confusion
it appears that the W-422 and W-920 tie down block and angle were replaced
by a W-933 one piece tie down block fabricated from AEX. After much
searching on the plans for the W-920 I found a revision block in the corner
of Drawing 11 dated 12/00 that specifies this change. The pick list
included the AEX and the W-933 as a phantom part. However, it still also
includes the W-920 as a phantom part which is now obsolete it would appear.
Also, the assembly instructions still reflect the usage of the W-422 and
W-920 instead of the W-933.
On another note, I noticed that the main wing spars (both) were missing the
screw holes for the platenuts in the spar flange for the inboard most wing
inspection plate cover. The platenut attach holes for the AN426 rivets are
there, but there's no hole between them for the screws like there is for
the other wing inspection cover platenuts. Not sure if this was intentional
or not, but I thought I would point it out in case other haven't noticed
these missing yet (assuming mine aren't unique!).
Todd Houg
http://www.toddhoug.com
Spar platenuts and platenuts and platenuts . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: W-920 mystery solved! |
My inboard inspection plate nut screw holes were also missing.
Easy to fix. Cleco a sacrificial nut plate on the top side as a drill
guide.
I have not mentioned it to Vans yet
John Oliveira -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: W-920 mystery solved! |
That's exactly what I did, drilled out a nutplate and used it as a drill guide.
I did mention it to Gus at Van's in an e-mail I sent to him Friday evening.
Todd Houg
My inboard inspection plate nut screw holes were also missing.
Easy to fix. Cleco a sacrificial nut plate on the top side as a drill
guide.
I have not mentioned it to Vans yet
John Oliveira -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I have just joined the RV-9A list and would like to introduce myself. I
have just about finished the tail feathers-working on the glass tips at this
time. My wing kit should be here early Feb. and I hope to be done with the
glass tips so I can get started on the wings. At this point I haven't made
any decisions about an engine or the panel. This is my first building
project so I'm hoping to get some good advice from the list. I attended a
EAA Sportair RV assembly workshop in Corona, CA recently and I'm ready to
get going on the wings.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, Arizona
albert.gardner(at)att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Tips. |
I finished the metal work on the Vertical and Horizontal Stabs and started
on the fibreglass tips but I'm not very happy with the result. Has anyon
some tips for filling in the open areas of the tips they would share?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, Arizona
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tips. |
I used 2 # per cu ft foam. I had a piece 2" thick
With the Stab and rudder tips clecoed in place, I pressed the foam into
the opening about 1/8 inch which created a scored pattern. I then cut
on scroll saw, and split the result so I now had 2 pieces for horizontal
and a extra for vertical, all 1 inch thick.
I then trimmed tapers to fit snugly and glued in with thickened west
epoxy. Polyester will melt the foam.
When dry (off the stabs) I smoothed the exposed surface to a concave
radius, glassed both inner and outer and filled the outer surface until
smooth with epoxy with low density filler until smooth, sanding between
coats.
I then primed and painted tips before installing.
John Oliveira
9a Wings underway
________________________________________________________________________________
I have just started the ailerons and have had a lot of trouble getting parts
to fit. First, the nose rib holes won't line up correctly with the nose
skin. Second, when I cleco the skins on, there is a bad warp at the
trailing edge.
The instructions show bags of shot to hold everything down and straight when
drilling the AEX wedge. Will this force the trailing edge straight after it
is riveted?
I would appreciate hearing from those of you that have gone through this
step.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: AILERONS |
call VAN'S something dosn't sound just right there...when I was working on the
tail group on the 9 a friend has...everything lined up fine....remember...don't
fight nothin...if you get to doing that, things for sure will not fit...I always
quit, walk around the back of the shop, and look at something else for a
while...seems to help, and glears the air of burning insulation from my tired
old brain{:~)....jolly in aurora, or.
Dale Larsen wrote:
>
> I have just started the ailerons and have had a lot of trouble getting parts
> to fit. First, the nose rib holes won't line up correctly with the nose
> skin. Second, when I cleco the skins on, there is a bad warp at the
> trailing edge.
>
> The instructions show bags of shot to hold everything down and straight when
> drilling the AEX wedge. Will this force the trailing edge straight after it
> is riveted?
>
> I would appreciate hearing from those of you that have gone through this
> step.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: AILERONS |
Dale, DO NOT depend on anything forcing the part to become flat. If it's
not
flat before you rivet, something is wrong. Take the straightness of
control
surfaces very seriously. I have not yet started my ailerons, so I can't
help much
more than with a general warning, perhaps others can lend detailed advice.
With larger ribs, hole misalignment is often a result of incorrect fluting,
but these
smaller ribs should fit from the start. Make absolutely sure you are not
overlooking
some subtle thing like the orientation of the ribs or upside down skins.
Don't be
insulted,,, it happens. If you are convinced the holes are punched wrong
or you
just can't see how it can fit, don't hesitate to give Vans a call (they like
photos too).
RV9 builders need to understand that we are helping to debug this project
too. It's
not like the RV6 with hundreds of finished planes yet. If you find problems
make
them known to Vans. Let us all know what you find since we're right behind
you!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: AILERONS |
on 2/3/01 4:31 PM, Dale Larsen at slickrock@been-there.com wrote:
>
> I have just started the ailerons and have had a lot of trouble getting parts
> to fit. First, the nose rib holes won't line up correctly with the nose
> skin. Second, when I cleco the skins on, there is a bad warp at the
> trailing edge.
>
> The instructions show bags of shot to hold everything down and straight when
> drilling the AEX wedge. Will this force the trailing edge straight after it
> is riveted?
>
> I would appreciate hearing from those of you that have gone through this
> step.
>
>
Dale,
I found that after removing the plastic from the inside of the leading edge
skins, the holes in the skin matched the holes in the ribs just fine.
I also had bad warping along the trailing edge, but I bought a couple of 50
lb. bags of sand from Home Depot and put them on top of the aileron and
everything flattened out except for one small wrinkle. I then clecoed the
trailing edge to the table as I drilled the holes in the AEX wedge and that
took care of the last remaining wrinkle.
From what I can tell, the skins are very flat, but the real test will come
next weekend when I rivet the trailing edges.
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: AILERONS |
Thanks all for the good advice.
I think that I may have to remove the plastic fron the inside of the leading
edge skins like Mark suggested. The leading edge skins fit very tight
against the counterbalance tube. When I cleco the nose skin on, it warps
the spar, thus buckling the skins.
Oh, by the way. . . If any of you are using the capacitive fuel senders,
beware. Although the BNC bulkhead connectors (the electrical connector on
the outside of the tank) LOOK air tight, they aren't. Be sure to use pro
seal on the inside.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tdale4" <tdale4(at)email.msn.com> |
I have decided to build a RV. It has been a dream of mine to build my own
plane but I'm undecided on which one to build. I know I want either the 6A
or the 9A. I don't have a lot of hours, 200 or so, and I have no experience
in building planes. I plan to power my plane with a Mazda 13b rotary engine.
From what I've read the 9 is easier to build but is not able to do
aerobatics, is this correct? I would like to be able to do light loops and
rolls and the 6 is able to do these anyone know why the 9 cannot? At any
rate I'm leaning heavily toward the 9 and I was hoping someone could give me
a list of the tools I will need in order to build the plane. I saw two RV
specific tool sets sold through Avery Tools will this be all I need or would
it be better to buy the tools separately so I don't buy anything I don't
need? All your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Tim Dale
Del Rio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Your adivse?? |
Tim, If you're serious about aerobatics, go with the 6. Construction and
price are
the same. You'll spend a little more in the engine department for the 6.
The 9 will
never have the response of the 6 due to its much longer wingspan. You can
find
a list of the tools you will actually use on my web site:
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/Builders_Journal.htm
Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Your adivse?? |
first of all, buy the best tools you can get...you'll never have
enough..{:~)..but I have a question for you..have you researched the mazda
engine for aerobatics?...and if you DO decide to go this way, the value of the
aircraft will not be as much than if you go to a conventiionally power plant
...you will spend a LOT more money with that mazda than with a lycoming....and
fitting a CS prop to that thing is a bitch....I have helped a few people do this
on some other aircraft, and there is ALWAYS trouble...if you want to do
flip-flops, by all means go to the 6-6a, 8-8a, and be done with it..yes the 9 is
a bit eaysier to build, but a quick build kit in any of the others is way ahead
of the 9 in building time..but, for the money, you can't beat a Van's kit, flat
out!...good luck...jolly in aurora, or.
tdale4 wrote:
>
> I have decided to build a RV. It has been a dream of mine to build my own
> plane but I'm undecided on which one to build. I know I want either the 6A
> or the 9A. I don't have a lot of hours, 200 or so, and I have no experience
> in building planes. I plan to power my plane with a Mazda 13b rotary engine.
> >From what I've read the 9 is easier to build but is not able to do
> aerobatics, is this correct? I would like to be able to do light loops and
> rolls and the 6 is able to do these anyone know why the 9 cannot? At any
> rate I'm leaning heavily toward the 9 and I was hoping someone could give me
> a list of the tools I will need in order to build the plane. I saw two RV
> specific tool sets sold through Avery Tools will this be all I need or would
> it be better to buy the tools separately so I don't buy anything I don't
> need? All your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
> Tim Dale
> Del Rio, TX
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Kearns <ewkearns(at)triad.rr.com> |
What is the thought on best engine for the RV-9?? I'm leaning towards the
O-320, but it seems like the O-235 would be adequate and a lot
cheaper. Any thoughts????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Tate" <tate(at)onlinemac.com> |
In what ways is it a lot cheaper? I'm bouncing back and forth between the
two myself.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Engine Choice
What is the thought on best engine for the RV-9?? I'm leaning towards the
O-320, but it seems like the O-235 would be adequate and a lot
cheaper. Any thoughts????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choice |
the plans call for a 0235, and Van's is getting good results out of it...in
face they told me the other day that the 9 is working out better than
expected...however I personally believe in the 0320...much stronger engine, and
you don't have as much cyl cracking....the 0235 is a replacement (cheaper) for
the 0290....you might want to explore the 0290 D, or even a converted GPU,
because you can bolt V cyls to it, run it at about 3100, and get fantastic hp
out of it, with just bolt ons...jolly in aurora
Ed Tate wrote:
>
> In what ways is it a lot cheaper? I'm bouncing back and forth between the
> two myself.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:02 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Engine Choice
>
>
> What is the thought on best engine for the RV-9?? I'm leaning towards the
> O-320, but it seems like the O-235 would be adequate and a lot
> cheaper. Any thoughts????
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: AILERONS |
on 2/3/01 5:53 PM, Gary Newsted at fcs(at)jlc.net wrote:
>
> Dale, DO NOT depend on anything forcing the part to become flat.
Gary,
I think you will find it is impossible to keep the ailerons and flaps flat
without forcing them flat with weights or clecoing the trailing edges to the
table. In theory I know they should stay flat on their own, but mine sure
didn't! I believe this is the reason the instructions stress that you should
have plenty of heavy objects around to keep things flat.
Has anybody who has completed their ailerons or flaps had a different
experience?
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Your adivse?? |
on 2/4/01 5:54 PM, tdale4 at tdale4(at)email.msn.com wrote:
From what I've read the 9 is not able to do aerobatics, is this correct?
Tim,
Yes, it's correct. The 9A is definitely not recommended for aerobatics
because the airframe can't withstand as many Gs as the other RVs. Why this
is so I can't say, but I believe it has something to do with the longer
wing.
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Kearns <ewkearns(at)triad.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choice |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Tate" <tate(at)onlinemac.com> |
Can either the 235 or 320 run on mogas?
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of old ogre
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Engine Choice
the plans call for a 0235, and Van's is getting good results out of it...in
face they told me the other day that the 9 is working out better than
expected...however I personally believe in the 0320...much stronger engine,
and
you don't have as much cyl cracking....the 0235 is a replacement (cheaper)
for
the 0290....you might want to explore the 0290 D, or even a converted GPU,
because you can bolt V cyls to it, run it at about 3100, and get fantastic
hp
out of it, with just bolt ons...jolly in aurora
Ed Tate wrote:
>
> In what ways is it a lot cheaper? I'm bouncing back and forth between the
> two myself.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:02 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Engine Choice
>
>
> What is the thought on best engine for the RV-9?? I'm leaning towards
the
> O-320, but it seems like the O-235 would be adequate and a lot
> cheaper. Any thoughts????
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Kearns <ewkearns(at)triad.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choice |
I like the performance figures for the O-320 and feel comfortable
with the strength of the engine.... even the H2AD. I've never encountered
cylinder cracking on the O-235! The O-235 has the distinction of holding
the longest TBO offered by Lycoming... 2400 Hours, 2600 if flown
regularly. The O-290 is very expensive partwise... not the best choice, I
think.
I wouldn't touch the O-290-G. The crankshaft is far too light...
not made for a propeller.
At 03:05 AM 2/5/01, you wrote:
>
>the plans call for a 0235, and Van's is getting good results out of it...in
>face they told me the other day that the 9 is working out better than
>expected...however I personally believe in the 0320...much stronger
>engine, and
>you don't have as much cyl cracking....the 0235 is a replacement (cheaper) for
>the 0290....you might want to explore the 0290 D, or even a converted GPU,
>because you can bolt V cyls to it, run it at about 3100, and get fantastic hp
>out of it, with just bolt ons...jolly in aurora
>
>Ed Tate wrote:
>
> >
> > In what ways is it a lot cheaper? I'm bouncing back and forth between the
> > two myself.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:02 PM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV9-List: Engine Choice
> >
> >
> > What is the thought on best engine for the RV-9?? I'm leaning towards the
> > O-320, but it seems like the O-235 would be adequate and a lot
> > cheaper. Any thoughts????
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Tate" <tate(at)onlinemac.com> |
Can either the O-235 or the O-320 be run on mogas? Are there different
compression pistons for the O-235?
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Engine Choice
I like the performance figures for the O-320 and feel comfortable
with the strength of the engine.... even the H2AD. I've never encountered
cylinder cracking on the O-235! The O-235 has the distinction of holding
the longest TBO offered by Lycoming... 2400 Hours, 2600 if flown
regularly. The O-290 is very expensive partwise... not the best choice, I
think.
I wouldn't touch the O-290-G. The crankshaft is far too light...
not made for a propeller.
At 03:05 AM 2/5/01, you wrote:
>
>the plans call for a 0235, and Van's is getting good results out of it...in
>face they told me the other day that the 9 is working out better than
>expected...however I personally believe in the 0320...much stronger
>engine, and
>you don't have as much cyl cracking....the 0235 is a replacement (cheaper)
for
>the 0290....you might want to explore the 0290 D, or even a converted GPU,
>because you can bolt V cyls to it, run it at about 3100, and get fantastic
hp
>out of it, with just bolt ons...jolly in aurora
>
>Ed Tate wrote:
>
> >
> > In what ways is it a lot cheaper? I'm bouncing back and forth between
the
> > two myself.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:02 PM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV9-List: Engine Choice
> >
> >
> > What is the thought on best engine for the RV-9?? I'm leaning towards
the
> > O-320, but it seems like the O-235 would be adequate and a lot
> > cheaper. Any thoughts????
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choice |
part..A..yes, you can run them both on mo gas, but they like the best there
is...you can run even the 160hp 0320 on it....just watch the map......by the
way, in case you didn't know. the 0290G has plates you use for strength on the
prop flange...we have run these engines well over 3k and never had any
problems...parts, are expensive, if you don't know where to look...pennington
av. has a bunch of nos stuff, just to name one...part B..you can run different
pistons in the 0320, the 0320H2AD, but not the 0235...we tried that..the engine
just isn't that strong..that's why we went to the 0290, and the v-cyls...I have
done aerobatics with the 0290G's and some of them were quite streefull untill I
learned how to handle them, so I DO know the engine stays together...but if you
want a good reliable engine the 0320 E2D is the best bet, or if you want a
hollow crank for a CS prop a B3B is a good choice...
Ed Tate wrote:
>
> Can either the O-235 or the O-320 be run on mogas? Are there different
> compression pistons for the O-235?
> Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 2:27 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Engine Choice
>
>
> I like the performance figures for the O-320 and feel comfortable
> with the strength of the engine.... even the H2AD. I've never encountered
> cylinder cracking on the O-235! The O-235 has the distinction of holding
> the longest TBO offered by Lycoming... 2400 Hours, 2600 if flown
> regularly. The O-290 is very expensive partwise... not the best choice, I
> think.
>
> I wouldn't touch the O-290-G. The crankshaft is far too light...
> not made for a propeller.
>
> At 03:05 AM 2/5/01, you wrote:
> >
> >the plans call for a 0235, and Van's is getting good results out of it...in
> >face they told me the other day that the 9 is working out better than
> >expected...however I personally believe in the 0320...much stronger
> >engine, and
> >you don't have as much cyl cracking....the 0235 is a replacement (cheaper)
> for
> >the 0290....you might want to explore the 0290 D, or even a converted GPU,
> >because you can bolt V cyls to it, run it at about 3100, and get fantastic
> hp
> >out of it, with just bolt ons...jolly in aurora
> >
> >Ed Tate wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > In what ways is it a lot cheaper? I'm bouncing back and forth between
> the
> > > two myself.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Kearns
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:02 PM
> > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: RV9-List: Engine Choice
> > >
> > >
> > > What is the thought on best engine for the RV-9?? I'm leaning towards
> the
> > > O-320, but it seems like the O-235 would be adequate and a lot
> > > cheaper. Any thoughts????
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: AILERONS |
Maybe forcing is too strong a word. When I was drilling and clecoing the
flaps I used weight to keep it flat since there was a natural tendancy it
seemed for it to lift up at the edges. I wouldn't say I had to force it so
much as keep a little weight on it to keep it flat. I haven't riveted it yet
as I am just now getting ready to prime it. I assume when I get ready to
reassemble and start riveting, it will also tend to lift up. I placed a long
board over the whole flap and then placed some weights on teh board to keep
everything down. Seemed to work.
The ailerons are worse. Almost seems like something is pinching the spar in
and making the skin buckle in the trailing edge. I haven't fully drilled this
yet, I was just doing a preliminary assembly before I riveted on the
stiffeners. Looked like I better go back and put the stiffeners on before I
proceed. That nose skin on the aileron is REALLY tight. Maybe I'll try
heating it to make it easier to get together.
Anyway, on to priming.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A
Working on Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
Tim,
I struggled with this very same dilema - the 6A or the 9A. I would have
really liked to be able to aerobatics at some point, but it was out weighed
the the other qualities of the 9A - slow stall, short take off and landing
(althoug the 6A is no slouch here either), roomier cabin and most of all
ease of construction. The match drilled parts of the 9A kit will easily
save you a several hundred hours. A local 6A quickbuild builder stopped by
the other day and checked out the 9A kit. After looking at the match
drilled parts compared with the quickbuild, he figured it would take him
about as long to complete his quickbuild as it would to build a 9A slow
build. He also mentioned that some one at Vans (Warning unverified here say
to follow ;) told him that the build time for the 6A quickbuild was
comparable to the slow build 9A. I'm sure your mileage may vary . . .
As for tools, the two Avery kits are an excellent starting point. You will
need virtually everything in these kits and then some. If you're a tool
junkie type, you can plan on spending another $500 to $1000 easily through
the course of construction, and that's probably not including a pnuematic
rivet squeezer - highly recommended! However, if your budget is tight you
may be able to get by with just a couple hundred over the cost of the Avery
kits.
Good luck,
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
http://www.toddhoug.com
Ready to fit the top skins on the wings
I have decided to build a RV. It has been a dream of mine to build my own
plane but I'm undecided on which one to build. I know I want either the 6A
or the 9A. I don't have a lot of hours, 200 or so, and I have no experience
in building planes. I plan to power my plane with a Mazda 13b rotary
engine.
From what I've read the 9 is easier to build but is not able to do
aerobatics, is this correct? I would like to be able to do light loops and
rolls and the 6 is able to do these anyone know why the 9 cannot? At any
rate I'm leaning heavily toward the 9 and I was hoping someone could give
me
a list of the tools I will need in order to build the plane. I saw two RV
specific tool sets sold through Avery Tools will this be all I need or
would
it be better to buy the tools separately so I don't buy anything I don't
need? All your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Tim Dale
Del Rio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Kaney" <hkaney(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9 rudder and lights |
Noticed some discussion on the web about the differences in wingtips between
the -9 and the -6 in regards to visibility of wing tip lights from the rear.
This would imply that rudder lights are a definite consideration. What
provisions need to be made to allow rudder lights in the -9, other than
grommeted holes with a string for pulling wires, etc. Or are those things
covered in plans, manuals, all of which I have not seen?
Lurking, learning, lusting for a RV9...
Howard Kaney
hkaney(at)execpc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-9 rudder and lights |
> Noticed some discussion on the web about the differences in wingtips
between
> the -9 and the -6 in regards to visibility of wing tip lights from the
rear.
> This would imply that rudder lights are a definite consideration. What
> provisions need to be made to allow rudder lights in the -9, other than
> grommeted holes with a string for pulling wires, etc. Or are those things
> covered in plans, manuals, all of which I have not seen?
Howard: The difference in the wingtips is not publisized well - definitely
not on the website, order form, kit doc., etc. I plan to use three position
lights and ONE strobe (top of V. stab) for daytime visibility. For this I
ordered the rudder bottom formed for a tail light. You can mount both a
white position light and a strobe, if you like. No extra charge for this -
easy installation. If you order the "built in" light option for the wing
tips (about $60 extra) you get a REALLY NICE streamlined wingtip. No
protrusions for position lights and also a strobe. The light is on the
forward corner of the tip - flush mounted like the Airtech wingtip option.
The tip slopes outward to the rear! ! I have seen no documentation on this
but there is no way that you will get total rearward coverage with wingtip
strobe only. It appears you would have to have the third strobe option in
the tail. Their order form does say that you cannot use the wingtip light
with the white posion light option. Likewise for strobe coverage???
Since this is important - but poorly documented I would call Vans or send an
email to their support (Scott) at support(at)vansaircraft.com
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 rudder and lights |
Rudder can be ordered with a faired provision for a light on the bottom
tip. Makes a very neat installation and path for wiring is directly
forward. I lower rudder tip on with nut plates (#6) so it is removable
for doing the wiring later.
The tip with provision for lights is a no charge option when you order
the impinge kit.
I have the faired wing tip lights, using strobe and position lights on
each wing and on the bottom trailing edge of rudder tip.
John Oliveira
Working on Wings (TANKS)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 rudder and lights |
DITTO for me.
Barry Pote RV9a Wings
John Oliveira wrote:
>
>
> Rudder can be ordered with a faired provision for a light on the bottom
> tip. Makes a very neat installation and path for wiring is directly
> forward. I lower rudder tip on with nut plates (#6) so it is removable
> for doing the wiring later.
>
> The tip with provision for lights is a no charge option when you order
> the impinge kit.
>
> I have the faired wing tip lights, using strobe and position lights on
> each wing and on the bottom trailing edge of rudder tip.
>
> John Oliveira
> Working on Wings (TANKS)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 rudder and lights |
This is all correct. One thing further. The wing tip kit is so small
(compared to some seen on the rv6a i.e.) that there is no real way (in
my opinion) to mount landing lights in it, too. So I went with
Duckworks, in addition to the tip kit.
Barry Pote RV9a
Ernest Kells wrote:
>
>
> > Noticed some discussion on the web about the differences in wingtips
> between
> > the -9 and the -6 in regards to visibility of wing tip lights from the
> rear.
> > This would imply that rudder lights are a definite consideration. What
> > provisions need to be made to allow rudder lights in the -9, other than
> > grommeted holes with a string for pulling wires, etc. Or are those things
> > covered in plans, manuals, all of which I have not seen?
>
> Howard: The difference in the wingtips is not publisized well - definitely
> not on the website, order form, kit doc., etc. I plan to use three position
> lights and ONE strobe (top of V. stab) for daytime visibility. For this I
> ordered the rudder bottom formed for a tail light. You can mount both a
> white position light and a strobe, if you like. No extra charge for this -
> easy installation. If you order the "built in" light option for the wing
> tips (about $60 extra) you get a REALLY NICE streamlined wingtip. No
> protrusions for position lights and also a strobe. The light is on the
> forward corner of the tip - flush mounted like the Airtech wingtip option.
> The tip slopes outward to the rear! ! I have seen no documentation on this
> but there is no way that you will get total rearward coverage with wingtip
> strobe only. It appears you would have to have the third strobe option in
> the tail. Their order form does say that you cannot use the wingtip light
> with the white posion light option. Likewise for strobe coverage???
>
> Since this is important - but poorly documented I would call Vans or send an
> email to their support (Scott) at support(at)vansaircraft.com
> Ernest Kells
> RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
> Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 rudder and lights |
Howard,
Others have answered this question to you, but I just wanted to reinforce
that if you want your plane to be night legal (in the US) make sure that you
install the combo "position/strobe" light in the rudder bottom. This is part
# LN A500-14 from Van's accessory catalog. The other tail light is a
position light only and would not meet FAA requirements.
Cliff
>
> Noticed some discussion on the web about the differences in wingtips
between
> the -9 and the -6 in regards to visibility of wing tip lights from the
rear.
> This would imply that rudder lights are a definite consideration. What
> provisions need to be made to allow rudder lights in the -9, other than
> grommeted holes with a string for pulling wires, etc. Or are those things
> covered in plans, manuals, all of which I have not seen?
>
> Lurking, learning, lusting for a RV9...
> Howard Kaney
> hkaney(at)execpc.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/06/01 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
Has anyone spoken with Vans lately about the performance of the 9A demo with
the Hartzell prop?
Cliff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
>>-----Original Message-----
>>Has anyone spoken with Vans lately about the performance of the 9A demo
with
>>the Hartzell prop?
>>Cliff
Cliff,
I sent an email to Van's yesterday asking the same question and I just
received the following response from Gus Funnell:
> I understand that you have completed testing N129RV with a Hartzell
> prop. I am ready to order the prop for my RV-9A and am leaning toward
> the 3 blade MT as was originally installed on N129RV. However, before
> I make the final decision, I am curious about how the airplane
> performed with the Hartzell in terms of weight, smoothness, speed,
> etc. when compared to the MT prop. Are the results of your evaluation
> available?
Gus's response: We don't have anything written up yet. I heard performance
is about
the same
>
> Also, you recently faxed me an order form for MT props and it
> mentioned a $2000 shipping fee for shipping from Germany. If my prop
> is combined with a bulk order for 5 or 10 of these props, is the $2000
> shipping fee avoided?
>
Gus's response: Yes, but we need 15 orders to get them shipped free.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
Chris,
Thanks for the info. Has anyone compared the installed weight difference
between the 2 blade Hartzell and 3 blade MT?
Cliff
>Cliff,
>
> Gus's response: We don't have anything written up yet. I heard
performance
> is about
> the same
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
I spoke with Scott Risan today, (was checking on a parts order) and brought
up several subjects that I asked about here on the list.
First was the performance difference between the Hartzell 2 blade and MT 3
blade. He said that the Hartzell was a few mph faster and climb is about the
same.
Second, he said the Hartzell is about 10 lbs heavier than the MT 3 blade. He
said the 2 blade MT is heavier than the 3 blade MT. Go figure.
3rd, I questioned him about the reason for limiting engine size to 160 hp.
He said that he had a discussion with Van about this recently, and the
reason is SPEED. In fact he said, at this time, that Van seemed more adamant
about this limitaion than he has been for other models. He said that after
Sun n fun they plan to do flutter/vibration tests and the hope is that they
will be able to set VNE at 210 mph based on those tests.
If that works out, it should be no problem to use an O-360. Even if the VNE
doesn't get set at 210, I may still use the 0-360 and just prop it to keep
the speed down. I want my plane propped toward take off/climb performance
anyway.
4th, I asked him about the possibility of a taildragger version. I have
heard from others that Van's is planning one, but the last thing that I
heard from Van himself (in Oct) was that they weren't planning on doing it.
Today, Scott said the tailwheel version is being planned. They still haven't
worked out the details. The problem is that if they mount the gear to the
motor mount like the -6, the gear ends up being too long. One fix he
mentioned would be to use a narrower stance for the -9 than the -6 has. The
other option he mentioned would be to do something similar to what they did
with the -8.
Neither option sounds all that appealing. A wide stance makes a plane easier
to handle in heavy crosswinds. I changed the gear on my Kitfox from the
stock bungee gear to a one piece spring aluminum gear with a wider stance.
The difference in handling was noticably better with the new gear. If they
go the -8 route it seems that it may add considerable weight. Am I wrong
about this?
I hope they work something out soon.
Regards,
Cliff
> Has anyone spoken with Vans lately about the performance of the 9A demo
with
> the Hartzell prop?
> Cliff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
The MT prop has composite blades, that's why it's lighter. I suspect
prop drag is greater for three blades too, hence the slower top speed.
Still, it's a real nice prop. I was happy to hear someone asked about
the shipping. After first reading about the bulk shipment discount in
the RVator, I was expecting to see *something* from Vans about rallying
RV9'ers to place orders. Vans is supposed to be an MT reseller, but
they don't even list the prop in their catalog. Does anyone have a
real price on the MT prop? Plus the real shipping cost? If it costs
2G to ship from Germany, it must be fully assembled. Otherwise, if the
blades are removed, I can't see where it costs that much to ship. Germany
is not on a different planet afterall.... (spoken like a true
German-American).
On another subject for wing builders, does the bottom outboard skin overlap
the bottom inboard skin (like the top skins do) or the other way around?
The
blueprints and plans don't make this clear, and looking at the bottom
outboard
skin, the first inspection hole is so close to the overlap that it would
appear to
fit better if the inboard skin were on top.
Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop |
> On another subject for wing builders, does the bottom outboard skin
overlap
> the bottom inboard skin (like the top skins do) or the other way around?
I had the same problem. I called Gus and he said that the bottom outboard
skins overlap the same as the top. I sure couldn't find it in the drawings
or instructions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
Gary,
Ask Van's to mail or fax you their MT order form. It talks about shipping
and crating. Yes, the 3 blade props come fully assembled and are expensive
to ship. I don't have the order form in front of me but I think there was a
$200 crating charge for Vans to crate the prop after it arrives from Germany
in a bulk container.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
I was happy to hear someone asked about
the shipping. After first reading about the bulk shipment discount in
the RVator, I was expecting to see *something* from Vans about rallying
RV9'ers to place orders. Vans is supposed to be an MT reseller, but
they don't even list the prop in their catalog. Does anyone have a
real price on the MT prop? Plus the real shipping cost? If it costs
2G to ship from Germany, it must be fully assembled. Otherwise, if the
blades are removed, I can't see where it costs that much to ship. Germany
is not on a different planet afterall.... (spoken like a true
German-American).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hello, RV-9ers:
> > On another subject for wing builders, does the bottom outboard skin
overlap the bottom inboard skin (like the top skins do) or the other way
around? <<
> I had the same problem. I called Gus and he said that the bottom outboard
skins overlap the same as the top. I sure couldn't find it in the drawings
or instructions. <
The instructions are stated (not clearly) in the text, but they are very
explicit in the draings. I am not in the shop now, but here goes. Read the
instructions in rhe builg the wing sleeton section - the first time you put
up the skins. Easy to overlook or misinterpret. However, then study the
drawing - the one thhay shows both the top and bottom views (#11 ???). On
the juncture of the top and bottom skins look for the cutaway view (Section
C-C ???). Study the cutaway very carefully. It also shows up on another
view as well - where they show you a side view. What I did? When both the
top and bottom skins were mounted I drew a line along teh skins and removed
the plastic - about 1 1/2" - the full length. Same for the insides. Then I
"BEVELED" the overlapping skins - inside for both outboard skins and outside
for both inboard skins - sort of like a splice. IN addition you have to do
the 1 1/2" overlap at the top in order to match the tank skins where the
skins are raised due to the overlap. This all is shown twice on the
drawings - especialy the "splice look".
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elbie(at)aol.com (by way of Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>) |
2/9/2001
Fellow Pilots and Builders:
EM aviation is pleased to announce that the RiteAngle III Angle of
Attack system is in production. I know this has been a long, long wait for
some of you, however I will not sell a system that is not up to my standards.
The long delay was partially caused by the total new design required
after the RiteAngle 2000 system was terminated. The remainder of the delay
was insuring the system met all our requirements such as both hot and cold
environment testing. The first production group of systems off the line
are being again extensively tested for approximately 2 weeks before we
deliver any systems to insure there are no "bugs" appearing.
When all production testing is accomplished I will ship according to who
has sent in the order form via fax or US mail. (Again, DO NOT send your
credit card number via e-mail! I DO NOT have a secure e-mail line.)
If you want a spot in line for early delivery you can request this via
e-mail, and mail your check or CC number.
At present time I estimate 4- 10 weeks before your delivery, depending on
when I receive your payment.
To those of you who have been in correspondence with me for the last year,
thanks for your belief in EM aviation's product, and soon you will have a
product in your hands. I honor my correspondence of the quoted price.
Current price $295 + mount & options see web site for information.
www.riteangle.com
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
P NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie WA 98606
360-260-0772
www.riteangle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | instrument panel drawing available (slider version) |
Fellow RV-9A builders,
I asked Ken Krueger at Van's to email an AutoCAD drawing of the F-7103
instrument panel (slider version) drawing to me so that I can layout my
panel. It is a scale outline drawing including all 25 mounting holes. I have
Ken's permission to share this drawing with other builders so that we don't
all waste his time asking for copies. So if you would like a copy please
email me directly at: mailto:cjh(at)execpc.com and I will forward a copy to you
as an attachment to an email.
It is a 50kb file in AutoCAD R13 format.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: instrument panel drawing available (slider version) |
Hello all,
Chris was kind enough to mail the AutoCAD drawing to me so I could add it
to my web page. (Thanks Chris!) You can download it at
http://www.toddhoug.com. There's a dowload link on the front page (you may
have to scroll down a bit).
Also, I recently made some updates with pictures of my progress on the Wing
kit.
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
RV-9A - Fitting the tanks
http://www.toddhoug.com
Fellow RV-9A builders,
I asked Ken Krueger at Van's to email an AutoCAD drawing of the F-7103
instrument panel (slider version) drawing to me so that I can layout my
panel. It is a scale outline drawing including all 25 mounting holes. I
have
Ken's permission to share this drawing with other builders so that we don't
all waste his time asking for copies. So if you would like a copy please
email me directly at: mailto:cjh(at)execpc.com and I will forward a copy to
you
as an attachment to an email.
It is a 50kb file in AutoCAD R13 format.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Fuselage
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LUISFEMATT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/13/01 |
Yes, E-mail me a copy of the panel lay out please, and thanks !!
Luis Fematt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
Can someone give me a pointer on securing the MAC servo to EET-602 B-R and
B-L and then that to the cover plate...
My B-L extends into the access hole on the cover plate while the plans show
it seeming to stop short of that. Did any of you trace on the bottom of the
B-l and cut it out to conform to the cover plate access cut out or cut if off
straight? Thanks for the input.
Doug Lomheim
OK City
9A elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
Doug, I didn't have to cut the brackets, although you do have to drill a
hole for
the wires to poke through the bracket. It's a tight fit into the access
hole, but
if you mess with it long enough you'll find one angle that it slides into
place.
Check your measurements again. My brackets are 3/8" from the rear edge
of the plate, 3/4" from the inboard edge of the plate, and 5/8" from the
outboard
edge of the plate. This positions the front edge of the servo motor exactly
even
with the oblong cutout for the server pushrod.
I've posted three photos of my servo at: http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/servo.htm
I'll probably move these onto my web site after a few days.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Richardson" <kpd_307(at)hotmail.com> |
Doug,
It seems to me that when I did this, I had originally planned to trim the
bracket to fit the cutout. But when I looked at the plan again, I saw the
minimum clearance callout of 3/8" to the front of the bracket, as well as
centering the servo arm in the cutout resulted in very little (too small to
trim) actually sticking out. I just ended up leaving mine. This is a very
confusing (busy) drawing on the plans and could stand to be clarified some.
Good luck,
Greg RV9A finishing empennage, wings in garage
>My B-L extends into the access hole on the cover plate while the plans show
>it seeming to stop short of that. >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/14/01 |
Gary:
Thanks for loading the pictures...I think I have the wrong brackets since
mine are 3 1/4 inches long and according to your picture they should only be
about 2 3/8's" long....I guess I'll just cut them to the right size...wonder
if these go to an RV-8? Anyway, thanks again for your assistance.
dl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/14/01 |
The brackets I got were about that length so I had to cut them down also. I
wish the opening had been another 1/2 or so because it was difficult to get
the unit small enough to go through the hole.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: Tail done, starting on wings
----- Original Message -----
From: <DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com>
> Gary:
> Thanks for loading the pictures...I think I have the wrong brackets since
> mine are 3 1/4 inches long and according to your picture they should only
be
> about 2 3/8's" long....I guess I'll just cut them to the right
size...wonder
> if these go to an RV-8? Anyway, thanks again for your assistance.
> dl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | VM1000 vs EL fuel senders |
I've been slowly acquiring various instruments, trying to spread out the
pain.
I've always intended to use a Vision Micro Systems VM1000 for engine
instrumentation. When I built my fuel tanks, I installed the capacitive
sender
option which, according to Van's, requires the Electronics International
fuel
transducers and gauge (which are real nice). I was about to order the EI
fuel
gauge when it caught my eye that the AC-Spruce Catalog lists
"fuel level senders" for the VM1000.
I have the VM1000 brochures which don't say anything about fuel "quantity",
only pressure, flow, and the related calculations. Now I'm wondering what
the truth is, and if the VM handles quantity, is it compatible with the
capacitive
senders from Vans? The brochure does show a separate quantity gauge,
but it appears to be part of their other round gauge products, not the
VM1000.
So does anyone out there have any direct experience with the VM1000?
I figured I'd post this first before picking up the phone. Vision Micro
Systems
doesn't appear to have a web site either,,, anyone know for sure?
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VM1000 vs EL fuel senders |
Gary,
Try this site: http://www.visionmicrosystems.com/
Cliff
Wings
>
> I've been slowly acquiring various instruments, trying to spread out the
> pain.
> I've always intended to use a Vision Micro Systems VM1000 for engine
> instrumentation. When I built my fuel tanks, I installed the capacitive
> sender
> option which, according to Van's, requires the Electronics International
> fuel
> transducers and gauge (which are real nice). I was about to order the EI
> fuel
> gauge when it caught my eye that the AC-Spruce Catalog lists
> "fuel level senders" for the VM1000.
>
> I have the VM1000 brochures which don't say anything about fuel
"quantity",
> only pressure, flow, and the related calculations. Now I'm wondering
what
> the truth is, and if the VM handles quantity, is it compatible with the
> capacitive
> senders from Vans? The brochure does show a separate quantity gauge,
> but it appears to be part of their other round gauge products, not the
> VM1000.
>
> So does anyone out there have any direct experience with the VM1000?
> I figured I'd post this first before picking up the phone. Vision Micro
> Systems
> doesn't appear to have a web site either,,, anyone know for sure?
>
> Gary
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I attached the top skins to the left wing skeleton last night and I'm
wondering if I should roll the skin edges so they will fit tight against the
spars after riveting. The trailing edge over the flaps looks like it
wouldn't need it but what about the other edges? Should one roll the
outboard skin overlap onto the inboard skin also?
BTW, this is starting to look like it might fly someday.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: Tail done, starting on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
I wouldn't bother rolling the edges. You need to taper the
edge of the underlying
skin. If you taper this well, the overlapping skin fits
real nice. The double-row
of rivets pulls it tight and flat. If you do roll this
edge, go real easy or the roll will
cause it to fit worse. I have just finished one set of top
skins. The only place I
rolled was around the landing light cutout. This made for a
better fit of the lense.
The tank/nose/spar seam is a butt-joint which doesn't need
rolled either. You
do need to taper about 1 1/2" of the spar seam where the two
skin panels overlap
to make up for the double-thickness at that spot. Again,
if you decide to roll this
seam, go real easy, i.e. just enough to hold the seam tight.
I didn't do this and
the fit is just fine. A light sanding to break the sharp
edge is all that is needed.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/22/01 |
>Gary,
>When you say taper the edges for a smooth fit, can you elaborate? Am I to
>assume that you just sand that edge down until it's half the size of its
>original form using a belt sander or scotchbright wheel? If so, how far
>back? Wouldn't this violate the integrity of the aluminum strength? I ran
>into that on the rudder, and I'm assuming that the job I did came out fine.
>But then, not having any prior A&P experience, I don't know what looks
>"right". Help!
>
>Matt Grunenwald
>-9A Elevators
>Rio Rancho, NM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/22/01 |
>Gary,
>When you say taper the edges for a smooth fit, can you elaborate? Am I to
>assume that you just sand that edge down until it's half the size of its
>original form using a belt sander or scotchbright wheel? If so, how far
>back? Wouldn't this violate the integrity of the aluminum strength? I ran
>into that on the rudder, and I'm assuming that the job I did came out fine.
>But then, not having any prior A&P experience, I don't know what looks
>"right". Help!
>
>Matt Grunenwald
>-9A Elevators
>Rio Rancho, NM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/22/01 |
The entire chord-wise length of the inboard skin should
be slightly tapered to ease the transition of the outboard
skin on top of it. For this, just a slight taper will do the trick,
perhaps 1/8" wide and about half-way through the material.
This just makes it look better and prevents a sharp edge from
digging into the back side of the top skin. I also tapered about
the same amount from the inboard chord-wise edge of the
outboard skin to give a smooth transition between the skins.
Neither one of these edge-tapers is in a structural location
so strength isn't an issue. Just don't go so far as to leave a
razor sharp edge.
Where the two skins overlap (about 1 1/2" wide) at the front
edge where they meet the back edge of the fuel tank, you'll
need to taper a little more agressively. Use a wide flat file
to cut down a flat taper the inboard/bottom skin only, in this
area about 3/8" wide, down to a nearly sharp point. This is
to allow the top/outboard skin to butt against the tank. Don't
taper the outboard skin, as it should have a square edge.
Since you are only taking about 1 1/2" here, and on a bottom
skin, well overlapping the spar, there really is no concern for
strength here either. Make sure you primer this strip before
attaching the skins. Corrosion tends to seek hidden places.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Grunenwald <grunnie(at)uswest.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 8:57 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/22/01
>
>
> >Gary,
> >When you say taper the edges for a smooth fit, can you elaborate? Am I to
> >assume that you just sand that edge down until it's half the size of its
> >original form using a belt sander or scotchbright wheel? If so, how far
> >back? Wouldn't this violate the integrity of the aluminum strength? I ran
> >into that on the rudder, and I'm assuming that the job I did came out fine.
> >But then, not having any prior A&P experience, I don't know what looks
> >"right". Help!
> >
> >Matt Grunenwald
> >-9A Elevators
> >Rio Rancho, NM
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Check out the adjustable landing lights. |
I just installed a set of Duckworth landing lights. I didn't
like the idea that they were not adjustable, so I cooked up
a slick adjustment mechanism. Check it out at my web
site: http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/Builders_Journal.htm
A click on the animation at the top will always take you to
the latest entry,,, this time covering the adjustable lights.
Enjoy! Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Wood <brywd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | warning for those of you building the wings |
Hi all, just a quick note to point out an area where I made a mistake,
not once, but twice. When rivoting the top skins on the wings there is
plenty of strength from the ribs to support the skins while rivoting.
After many rivots, and lots of repetition, I settled into a comfort zone
with the rivot gun and was moving along pretty good when it was time to
install the J-Stringers and fasten them on for good. Here's where the
problem came from. The J-Stringers have a very small surface contact
area with the skin and if the rivot gun slips at all it trys to bend the
skin around the stringer. This is easy to do, and it makes the skin
look terrible. I have been told that trying to straighten the metal
could cause "Work Hardening" and that it should be left alone and filled
with epoxy or bondo. I am not happy with this and don't want any of you
to make the same mistake.
Bryan Wood
San Jose, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
Gary and Matt,
I was contemplating how I was going to bevel my wing skins and came across
the following statement in the RV-9A assembly instructions near the bottom
of page 7-4: "Only the corners -- not the entire edge -- of both skins are
beveled using a file, sanding block, etc.". I can't interperate it any
other way other than exactly what it says. It certainly seems that beveling
them the way Gary suggests would give the most aesthetically pleasing
joint, but I would be very careful not to bevel any more than the 1/8" that
Gary suggests. This is likely the approach that I will take, however, the
skins are definately a structural part of the airplane! That's the reason
that there are two rows of rivets where the skins overlap. Van's does not
recommend modifying the skins in any way. Check through the archives and
you'll find much discussion about altering the inspection plate covers and
the locations of the leading edge landing lights (BTW neat idea on the
adjustable lights Gary!), and the potential to effect structural integrity.
These are all part of the structural support, so you don't want to thin
your skins near these overlap rivets.
Happy building,
Todd Houg
RV-9A - Almost ready to disassmble the wings for priming.
>
>The entire chord-wise length of the inboard skin should
>be slightly tapered to ease the transition of the outboard
>skin on top of it. For this, just a slight taper will do the trick,
>perhaps 1/8" wide and about half-way through the material.
>This just makes it look better and prevents a sharp edge from
>digging into the back side of the top skin. I also tapered about
>the same amount from the inboard chord-wise edge of the
>outboard skin to give a smooth transition between the skins.
>Neither one of these edge-tapers is in a structural location
>so strength isn't an issue. Just don't go so far as to leave a
>razor sharp edge.
>
>Where the two skins overlap (about 1 1/2" wide) at the front
>edge where they meet the back edge of the fuel tank, you'll
>need to taper a little more agressively. Use a wide flat file
>to cut down a flat taper the inboard/bottom skin only, in this
>area about 3/8" wide, down to a nearly sharp point. This is
>to allow the top/outboard skin to butt against the tank. Don't
>taper the outboard skin, as it should have a square edge.
>Since you are only taking about 1 1/2" here, and on a bottom
>skin, well overlapping the spar, there really is no concern for
>strength here either. Make sure you primer this strip before
>attaching the skins. Corrosion tends to seek hidden places.
>Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Grunenwald <grunnie(at)uswest.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 8:57 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/22/01
>
>
> >Gary,
> >When you say taper the edges for a smooth fit, can you elaborate? Am I
to
> >assume that you just sand that edge down until it's half the size of its
> >original form using a belt sander or scotchbright wheel? If so, how far
> >back? Wouldn't this violate the integrity of the aluminum strength? I
ran
> >into that on the rudder, and I'm assuming that the job I did came out
fine.
> >But then, not having any prior A&P experience, I don't know what looks
> >"right". Help!
> >
> >Matt Grunenwald
> >-9A Elevators
> >Rio Rancho, NM
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unknown <oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
I beveled mine as the instructions say, just the corner, and they look
fine.
Some times we can be tempted to go overboard making it look extra pretty.
the skin overlap is there for a reason.
John Oliveira
Todd Houg writes:
>
> Gary and Matt,
>
> I was contemplating how I was going to bevel my wing skins and came across
> the following statement in the RV-9A assembly instructions near the bottom
> of page 7-4: "Only the corners -- not the entire edge -- of both skins are
> beveled using a file, sanding block, etc.". I can't interperate it any
> other way other than exactly what it says. It certainly seems that beveling
> them the way Gary suggests would give the most aesthetically pleasing
> joint, but I would be very careful not to bevel any more than the 1/8" that
> Gary suggests. This is likely the approach that I will take, however, the
> skins are definately a structural part of the airplane! That's the reason
> that there are two rows of rivets where the skins overlap. Van's does not
> recommend modifying the skins in any way. Check through the archives and
> you'll find much discussion about altering the inspection plate covers and
> the locations of the leading edge landing lights (BTW neat idea on the
> adjustable lights Gary!), and the potential to effect structural integrity.
> These are all part of the structural support, so you don't want to thin
> your skins near these overlap rivets.
>
> Happy building,
>
> Todd Houg
> RV-9A - Almost ready to disassmble the wings for priming.
>
>
> >
> >The entire chord-wise length of the inboard skin should
> >be slightly tapered to ease the transition of the outboard
> >skin on top of it. For this, just a slight taper will do the trick,
> >perhaps 1/8" wide and about half-way through the material.
> >This just makes it look better and prevents a sharp edge from
> >digging into the back side of the top skin. I also tapered about
> >the same amount from the inboard chord-wise edge of the
> >outboard skin to give a smooth transition between the skins.
> >Neither one of these edge-tapers is in a structural location
> >so strength isn't an issue. Just don't go so far as to leave a
> >razor sharp edge.
> >
> >Where the two skins overlap (about 1 1/2" wide) at the front
> >edge where they meet the back edge of the fuel tank, you'll
> >need to taper a little more agressively. Use a wide flat file
> >to cut down a flat taper the inboard/bottom skin only, in this
> >area about 3/8" wide, down to a nearly sharp point. This is
> >to allow the top/outboard skin to butt against the tank. Don't
> >taper the outboard skin, as it should have a square edge.
> >Since you are only taking about 1 1/2" here, and on a bottom
> >skin, well overlapping the spar, there really is no concern for
> >strength here either. Make sure you primer this strip before
> >attaching the skins. Corrosion tends to seek hidden places.
>
> >Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matt Grunenwald <grunnie(at)uswest.net>
> To: ; RV9-List Digest List
>
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 8:57 PM
> Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/22/01
>
>
> >
> >
> > >Gary,
> > >When you say taper the edges for a smooth fit, can you elaborate? Am I
> to
> > >assume that you just sand that edge down until it's half the size of its
> > >original form using a belt sander or scotchbright wheel? If so, how far
> > >back? Wouldn't this violate the integrity of the aluminum strength? I
> ran
> > >into that on the rudder, and I'm assuming that the job I did came out
> fine.
> > >But then, not having any prior A&P experience, I don't know what looks
> > >"right". Help!
> > >
> > >Matt Grunenwald
> > >-9A Elevators
> > >Rio Rancho, NM
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unknown <oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: warning for those of you building the wings |
I had similar problems in a couple of places on my horizontal stab. Turns
out there were two contributing factors. 1. Air preasure to high 30-35 #
is plenty for 3/32 rivets. 2. I was using the rivet gun set with a rubber
universal on it. I found it tended to go around corners, especailly if the
gun is set too high. The rubber absorbes some energy which leads to the
desire to turn up the preasure, exaserbating the problem further.
I have switched to a plane small mushroom set that is a solid shaft. Much
more controlable, much better riveting, and quicker at lower preasures.
John Oliveira
90054 Wings
Bryan Wood writes:
>
> Hi all, just a quick note to point out an area where I made a mistake,
> not once, but twice. When rivoting the top skins on the wings there is
> plenty of strength from the ribs to support the skins while rivoting.
> After many rivots, and lots of repetition, I settled into a comfort zone
> with the rivot gun and was moving along pretty good when it was time to
> install the J-Stringers and fasten them on for good. Here's where the
> problem came from. The J-Stringers have a very small surface contact
> area with the skin and if the rivot gun slips at all it trys to bend the
> skin around the stringer. This is easy to do, and it makes the skin
> look terrible. I have been told that trying to straighten the metal
> could cause "Work Hardening" and that it should be left alone and filled
> with epoxy or bondo. I am not happy with this and don't want any of you
> to make the same mistake.
> Bryan Wood
> San Jose, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
I think what Van's is implying with this statement, is that you do not bevel
the entire edge that butts up against the fuel tanks. These edges should
remain square in order to form a good butt joint, with the exception of the
1 1/2" overlap where it is imperative to bevel the lower skin to avoid hanging
the top skin out in the breeze.
As for tapering the chord-wise edges, both of these edges are beyond
the second row of rivets, thus have no significant bearing on strength at all.
In fact, tapering these will ultimately improve the joint because the lower
skin will no longer be able to cut into the upper skin as it might with a sharp
edge, and it's just plain good technique to taper the upper skin overlap.
This really isn't a structural concern.
> of page 7-4: "Only the corners -- not the entire edge -- of both skins are
> beveled using a file, sanding block, etc.". I can't interperate it any
> other way other than exactly what it says.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "stephen grossman" <flyboy2(at)amexol.net> |
| Subject: | rv6a/9a cad models |
i'm designing a plane at home that will use, with van's permisson, the 6a/9a
canopy, cowling, and other firewall forward parts. i'm designing in
solidworks and am looking for cad models of the above. thanks
steve grossman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nightingale Michael" <NightingaleMichael(at)JohnDeere.com> |
| Subject: | DWYER 160-8 PITOT/STATIC mounted in VS tip |
To the RV-9 list:
Has anyone considered mounting a non heated pitot/static tube in the VS
fiberglass tip fairing. I have contacted DWYER and the part number for
their # 160-8 (5/16 stainless) straight ( without the normal 90 degree bend)
pitot is 165724-00, the cost is $36.00 plus a $25.00 setup charge (for NOT
putting the 90 degree bend in: "go figure that one"). This installation
would solve pitot and static needs for all VFR instrumentation plus it would
be very light and very clean. Plus it would be up out of the way, and safe
from someone bumping into it.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Michael V. Nightingale
Deere & Co. Computer Center
400 19th ST.
Moline, IL. 61265
pager 319-327-7891
nightingalemichael(at)johndeere.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Jones" <esnj(at)wans.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DWYER 160-8 PITOT/STATIC mounted in VS tip |
I would be concerned about accurate airspeed indications at high power and
high angle of attack (departure stalls). The prop wash might give you a
false sense of security. (i.e.- a higher indicated airspeed than actual)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nightingale Michael" <NightingaleMichael(at)JohnDeere.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:13 AM
Subject: RV9-List: DWYER 160-8 PITOT/STATIC mounted in VS tip
>
> To the RV-9 list:
>
> Has anyone considered mounting a non heated pitot/static tube in the VS
> fiberglass tip fairing. I have contacted DWYER and the part number for
> their # 160-8 (5/16 stainless) straight ( without the normal 90 degree
bend)
> pitot is 165724-00, the cost is $36.00 plus a $25.00 setup charge (for NOT
> putting the 90 degree bend in: "go figure that one"). This installation
> would solve pitot and static needs for all VFR instrumentation plus it
would
> be very light and very clean. Plus it would be up out of the way, and
safe
> from someone bumping into it.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> Michael V. Nightingale
> Deere & Co. Computer Center
> 400 19th ST.
> Moline, IL. 61265
>
> pager 319-327-7891
>
> nightingalemichael(at)johndeere.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Location of wing root connections, and opinions on antennae. |
I am just finishing my wing wiring and wondered if anyone who has already been
here, or has a fuselage plan, can tell me how much room I have at the wing root
for connectors? I would like to install a bulkhead cannon plug for the 6
wires, but I want to be sure I don't put it in a spot that is inaccessible.
Obviously the control rod must pass through, but can anyone provide safe
coordinates for wiring? If not, I'll hold off until my fuse kit arrives in a
couple months.
On a related subject, I am looking at using wingtip mounted COMM and NAV
antennae. At first I didn't like the idea of the long coax runs and worried
about noise from the strobes, but the more I investigate, the more it sounds
like wingtip antennas are the way to go. Any opinions to share out there?
Gary (40" of snow last week! Holed up in the garage with my rivet gun)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce and Rosemary" <ratherto(at)netins.net> |
How are the build times shaping up for the RV-9A?
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Newsted <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:16 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Location of wing root connections, and opinions on
antennae.
>
> I am just finishing my wing wiring and wondered if anyone who has already
been
> here, or has a fuselage plan, can tell me how much room I have at the wing
root
> for connectors? I would like to install a bulkhead cannon plug for the
6
> wires, but I want to be sure I don't put it in a spot that is
inaccessible.
> Obviously the control rod must pass through, but can anyone provide safe
> coordinates for wiring? If not, I'll hold off until my fuse kit arrives
in a
> couple months.
>
> On a related subject, I am looking at using wingtip mounted COMM and NAV
> antennae. At first I didn't like the idea of the long coax runs and
worried
> about noise from the strobes, but the more I investigate, the more it
sounds
> like wingtip antennas are the way to go. Any opinions to share out there?
>
> Gary (40" of snow last week! Holed up in the garage with my rivet gun)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
I can tell you about mine. The empennage took 135 hours including all fitting
of surfaces and hinge adjustments, as well as tip fitting, priming, FG work and
attaching. Oh yes, I painted the tips with a chrome color paint while I was at
it. At 280 hours, I have the left wing to the stage where the top skins can be
riveted. LH leading edge is on and riveted, tank is complete and sealed. While
waiting for my wife to help buck the top skin rivets, I have built the ailerons,
which took about 30 hours.
Don't know how that compares with any of the other models
John Oliveira,
Rochester, NY
Bruce and Rosemary wrote:
>
> How are the build times shaping up for the RV-9A?
>
> Bruce
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Newsted <fcs(at)jlc.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:16 PM
> Subject: RV9-List: Location of wing root connections, and opinions on
> antennae.
>
> >
> > I am just finishing my wing wiring and wondered if anyone who has already
> been
> > here, or has a fuselage plan, can tell me how much room I have at the wing
> root
> > for connectors? I would like to install a bulkhead cannon plug for the
> 6
> > wires, but I want to be sure I don't put it in a spot that is
> inaccessible.
> > Obviously the control rod must pass through, but can anyone provide safe
> > coordinates for wiring? If not, I'll hold off until my fuse kit arrives
> in a
> > couple months.
> >
> > On a related subject, I am looking at using wingtip mounted COMM and NAV
> > antennae. At first I didn't like the idea of the long coax runs and
> worried
> > about noise from the strobes, but the more I investigate, the more it
> sounds
> > like wingtip antennas are the way to go. Any opinions to share out there?
> >
> > Gary (40" of snow last week! Holed up in the garage with my rivet gun)
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
Bruce,
I've got just over 100 hours into my empennage. That includes mounting and
aligning the the control surfaces and fitting the fiberglass tips. It does
not include any fiberglass tip filling or prep work. It also does not
include any time for fitting any manual or electric trim components. I tend
to be a little more conservative as to how much time I log. I ussually don't
log time I spend inside reading plans or cleaning my workspace.
I currently have just under 100 hours into my wings. I'm working on the
parts for both wings simultaneously. Prior to assembly I did all of the edge
deburring of the parts. I have completely assembled(cleco's no rivets yet)
both wings and fuel tanks and match drilled all parts. I'm in the process of
disassembling and hole deburring and dimpling the parts before priming. I
have the fuel tank sending units, vents and pick-up tubes completed and the
tanks ready for assembly. The leading edge is also disassembled, deburred
and ready for primer. I still have to disassemble, deburr and dimple the
rest of the wing structure and get ready for priming (I like to wait and
prime everything all at once). I have not yet touched the control surfaces.
I figure I will have somewhere around 250-300 hours into the wings, tanks
and control surfaces.
Good luck,
Todd Houg
N-Number officialy reserved - N194TH - "One -9 for T.H."
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce and Rosemary [mailto:ratherto(at)netins.net]
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 6:35 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Build times
How are the build times shaping up for the RV-9A?
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Newsted <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:16 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Location of wing root connections, and opinions on
antennae.
>
> I am just finishing my wing wiring and wondered if anyone who has already
been
> here, or has a fuselage plan, can tell me how much room I have at the wing
root
> for connectors? I would like to install a bulkhead cannon plug for the
6
> wires, but I want to be sure I don't put it in a spot that is
inaccessible.
> Obviously the control rod must pass through, but can anyone provide safe
> coordinates for wiring? If not, I'll hold off until my fuse kit arrives
in a
> couple months.
>
> On a related subject, I am looking at using wingtip mounted COMM and NAV
> antennae. At first I didn't like the idea of the long coax runs and
worried
> about noise from the strobes, but the more I investigate, the more it
sounds
> like wingtip antennas are the way to go. Any opinions to share out there?
>
> Gary (40" of snow last week! Holed up in the garage with my rivet gun)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
I ordered my wing kit 12/20/00 and it was ready to pick up 2/16/01.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
> Two questions... without starting a long thread, as I have reviewed (most
> of?) the the comments in the RV archives and it seems as though there are
> many pros and cons either way, are the builders using the self etching
> primer happy with the results?
>
At $165/gal it had better be good stuff! Yep, I've used Dupont VariPrime
615 for many years on many projects. It is an incredible paint. Fast drying,
durable, and toxic as all getout. Because the majority of the materials in the
kit
are alclad, I do not subscribe to the idea that everything needs to be treated
with
Alodine (even more carcinogenic). Proper cleaning and scuffing, and did I say
cleaning? is all that is required prior to VariPriming. On the other hand,
there are
certain parts that are not alclad, such as most angle pieces, and some parts
such as aileron and flap hinges that are destined to live difficult lives.
These
parts I do treat with Alodine, then VariPrime. This subject gets debated a
lot,
but that's my two-cents worth. (By the way, there is also a VariPrime 625 that
is less toxic (chromate & lead free), but I've never tried it...)
Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Laurence" <plaurencepc(at)hotmail.com> |
Any RV9A builders on this list in Florida? I recently sold my RV6 kit and
thinking about starting a 9 I would like to get in contact with other 9
builders in the area
Thanks
Peter Laurence
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Priming in the winter |
I am aware of the problems of wintertime painting, but I've been able to make it
work OK in my little corner of Siberia, ah, New Hampshire. Unfortunately, I
have a garage-"under", which means of course, "under" my wifes jurisdiction,
thus, painting in the garage/hangar is strictly forbidden. Despite extreme
measures I have taken with seals, power ventilators, folding walls, etc., there
is simply no way to keep fumes out of the house. So what I do, in the winter is
to set up a painting table just outside of my garage on a reasonably clear,
albeit cold, day. Crank the heat in the garage to a toasty warm 80+ (using a
single very effective 220vac heater I got from Northern Products Inc.). Warm
the batch of parts to be painted as I mix the paint. ...then in a single motion
that challenges the theory of relativity, I open the garage door, dash out with
the parts, shoot a coat of paint, and bring the parts back just inside the open
garage door. That way the flash fumes drift outdoors, yet the parts are bathed
in warm air as it is flowing out the door.
VariPrime flashes in about two minutes time, after which the remaining fumes are
tolerable with the ventilator running. I have yet to have adhesion problems.
The only other thing I might suggest is to use several light coats instead of
heavy ones. Cold weather adhesion becomes even more pronounced when the
reducer is pooled on the surface because of too heavy of a coat or excessive
reduction.
Another trick if you can afford it, is to buy your spouse a day off. Works for
me!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9 Builders |
Hello Peter
Jim Streit
Peter Laurence wrote:
>
> Any RV9A builders on this list in Florida? I recently sold my RV6 kit and
> thinking about starting a 9 I would like to get in contact with other 9
> builders in the area
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter Laurence
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I elected to go with the PPG primer mainly because I could get it in white
and I wanted any inside primed parts that would be visible from the outside
to be that color because white was going to be the main outside color. I
got the wing kit in about 11 weeks but I wonder if lead time will change
with greater or fewer new sales of the kit. BTW, your going to love this
kit.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: Working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | plaurence(at)aopa.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV9 Builders |
Hi Jim
How are you coming along. Did you get your wing kit yet.
I would like to see your progress
Be well
Peter
A proud member of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.
aopa.net
The official e-mail service of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.
Visit AOPA Online at http://www.aopa.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 03/14/01 |
I used the Marhyde single stage primer which comes in a flat gray. I buy it
for $14 a 19 oz spray can. Works fine for me. Got the tip from Brian Denk,
a local -8 builder/flyer. His panel/interior is in the color and it looks
great. Since he's to that stage in flying where he starts tweeking little
things to "enhance" his plane, I take his advice seriously; such as "quit
fussing and build!"
Seriously, if you ask all the list -9A builders, you'll get at LEAST that
many suggestions on primer.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Elevators (about 80+ hrs into tail)
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 03/14/01 |
I used the Marhyde single stage primer which comes in a flat gray. I buy it
for $14 a 19 oz spray can. Works fine for me. Got the tip from Brian Denk,
a local -8 builder/flyer. His panel/interior is in the color and it looks
great. Since he's to that stage in flying where he starts tweeking little
things to "enhance" his plane, I take his advice seriously; such as "quit
fussing and build!"
Seriously, if you ask all the list -9A builders, you'll get at LEAST that
many suggestions on primer.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Elevators (about 80+ hrs into tail)
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
For a time, I made the BIG mistake of using Tempo primer in spray cans from
Aircraft Spruce. This is an extremely inferior product in a consistently
defetive delivery system.
On advice of some folks on the list, I found an automotive paint store and
now use Sherwin Williams #988 aerosol self-etching primer. Works very well,
sprays like a dream. Very toxic (like all self-etching primers) but flashes
quickly, is not particlarly temperature sensitive, and dries hard and smooth.
I'm now very comfortable priming parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Wood <brywd(at)pacbell.net> |
Ditto, I'm using the same primer as you and am very happy with it.
Bryan Wood
Ewinne(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> For a time, I made the BIG mistake of using Tempo primer in spray cans from
> Aircraft Spruce. This is an extremely inferior product in a consistently
> defetive delivery system.
>
> On advice of some folks on the list, I found an automotive paint store and
> now use Sherwin Williams #988 aerosol self-etching primer. Works very well,
> sprays like a dream. Very toxic (like all self-etching primers) but flashes
> quickly, is not particlarly temperature sensitive, and dries hard and smooth.
> I'm now very comfortable priming parts.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie" <Imapinepig(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9 Builders |
Wow, good price for an RV-3 finnishing kit. Sad that none of it will work
for a 9.
You must be board if your scoring Egay for stuff.
Charlie
-----Original Message-----
From: plaurence(at)aopa.net <plaurence(at)aopa.net>
Date: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV9-List: RV9 Builders
>
>Hi Jim
>
>How are you coming along. Did you get your wing kit yet.
>
>I would like to see your progress
>
>
>Be well
>
>Peter
>
>
>A proud member of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.
>aopa.net
>The official e-mail service of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.
>Visit AOPA Online at http://www.aopa.org
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Richardson" <kpd_307(at)hotmail.com> |
Ken,
Hi and welcome to both the list and the RV world. Just to kind of give you
an idea of my experience, I began by ordering my emp kit at the Vans tent
while at Oshkosh. I am not the fasted builder, and intend to enjoy all of
the process. I just finished up on the empennage, and have clamped the
right wing spar in the jig this week. I ordered my wings on November 6th
and it was shipped on the 1st of January according to the packing list. As
far as primer is concerned, I have
decided to use two different primers. As the main primer, I am using Dupont
Veriprime 615. I spoke with several persons in aircraft, boating, and
automotive worlds, and found that all are using, and very happy with the
results. It is a two part primer, that is mixed 1:1 for use. I was happy
with the idea of not having to handle the acids directly, and the only
cleaning required is with laquer thinner, or 90%rubbing alcohol and
household vinegar before spraying. It is however very toxic, and do not use
it without an organic filtered respirator if you value your lungs. The
other approach I am using is a self etching spray can primer for those
smaller parts that need to be installed prior to spraying a large batch. I
buy it in quarts, and have found it to be $50 a quart. Cheap for peace of
mind. I used one quart on the HS and related parts, and one elevator. I
then used a second quart on the VS, rudder, and other elevator, plus their
related structures. It is very smelly, so I asked the local FBO if I could
erect a booth in one of the heated hangars when the plane was off on a trip.
They were glad to help, and it cost me $0, also when the door went up, the
smell left. You will get many opinions of what works best, and my decision
was based on this being Dupont country with VeriPrime being widely used and
available.
Good luck, and happy building.
Greg
RV9A (wings-finally)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
Ditto here, the RV builders in our Rochester, NY chapter are using it almost
exclusively. We have tried some other things, and this seems great. I also tried
the Tempo, and did not like it. I tried the Zinc Oxide, it is on my Horizontal
stab and vertical, not great, scratches off too easy.
John Oliveira
N909RV Reserved
Bryan Wood wrote:
>
> Ditto, I'm using the same primer as you and am very happy with it.
> Bryan Wood
>
> Ewinne(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > For a time, I made the BIG mistake of using Tempo primer in spray cans from
> > Aircraft Spruce. This is an extremely inferior product in a consistently
> > defetive delivery system.
> >
> > On advice of some folks on the list, I found an automotive paint store and
> > now use Sherwin Williams #988 aerosol self-etching primer. Works very well,
> > sprays like a dream. Very toxic (like all self-etching primers) but flashes
> > quickly, is not particlarly temperature sensitive, and dries hard and smooth.
> > I'm now very comfortable priming parts.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
John,
Are you sure the Sherwin Williams #988 aerosol self-etching primer sticks
better than Tempo Zinc Oxide? A friend who is using 988 is always commenting
that it doesn't stick very well, so I've been using Tempo Zinc Oxide.
My usual procedure is to first wash with soapy water and a scotch brite pad,
then etch, then spray the Zinc Oxide. It seems to stick OK, but if you're
getting significantly better results with the 988, I'm tempted to switch.
I agree with the comments about Tempo's inferior delivery system. I find
that the first half of the can goes on pretty well, but the second half
splatters and does not produce a good spray. I know a lot of people also
find the cans clog, but I've only had that happen once, and I was able to
remove the clog by following the procedure mentioned on the back of the can.
One other thing I've heard about 988 is that it doesn't form a moisture
barrier. I'm not sure zinc oxide does either, since I can't get Tempo to
return my calls, but since it's supposed to be a replacement for zinc
chromate, which has been used on planes for years, I figured it would be OK.
Any comments from anyone?
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
RV9A with a case of Zinc Oxide in the garage
>
> Ditto here, the RV builders in our Rochester, NY chapter are using it almost
> exclusively. We have tried some other things, and this seems great. I also
> tried
> the Tempo, and did not like it. I tried the Zinc Oxide, it is on my
> Horizontal
> stab and vertical, not great, scratches off too easy.
>
> John Oliveira
> N909RV Reserved
>
> Bryan Wood wrote:
>
>>
>> Ditto, I'm using the same primer as you and am very happy with it.
>> Bryan Wood
>>
>> Ewinne(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> For a time, I made the BIG mistake of using Tempo primer in spray cans from
>>> Aircraft Spruce. This is an extremely inferior product in a consistently
>>> defetive delivery system.
>>>
>>> On advice of some folks on the list, I found an automotive paint store and
>>> now use Sherwin Williams #988 aerosol self-etching primer. Works very well,
>>> sprays like a dream. Very toxic (like all self-etching primers) but flashes
>>> quickly, is not particlarly temperature sensitive, and dries hard and
>>> smooth.
>>> I'm now very comfortable priming parts.
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: primer on primer (cleaning with soap?) |
I think we've beat the primer issue to death, but since you asked, I'd be
concerned
about using any form of soap in your prep. Particularly in conjunction with
ScotchBrite
pads. The pad scratches the surface (good), the soap gets in the cracks (bad).
I suppose if your etch-wash does a good job, it'll get the soap off, but it's
conceivable
that soap may linger in drill holes etc. A better way to go is simply lacquer
thinner
and/or Dupont PrepSol. PrepSol is an industry standard for final prep. It
removes
wax, oil, soap, etc. I keep a quart handy at all times, even just for
removing fingerprints.
Lacquer thinner removes just about everything known to mankind. MEK is even
more
serious, but ultra-toxic. Everyone should buy a large box of rubber gloves,
you won't
regret it.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: primer on primer (cleaning with soap?) |
on 3/16/01 5:11 PM, Gary Newsted at fcs(at)jlc.net wrote:
>
> I think we've beat the primer issue to death, but since you asked, I'd be
> concerned
> about using any form of soap in your prep.
Yikes! Several experienced homebuilders recommended I use Dawn Dish
Detergent specifically for this! It sure is hard for us newbies to learn
what's the right thing to do.
By the way, is PrepSol something like Alumaprep?
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
RV-9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
If you've got a case use it. Quite frankly, the only reason I am priming interior
alclad parts is when it comes time to resell, some one might think you did a sloppy
job. One of our chapter members bought a junked 30 year old piper warrior for
the
engine, instruments and prop. When he disassembled, there was no sign of interior
corrosion.
Note, the leading edges for the ailerons and flaps ar not alclad. They are T6,
a
very hard alloy version. Looks and acts almost like stainless steel, but I don't
know the anti corrosion characteristics. I do know that they have a distinctly
different appearance. I built my ailerons while waiting for help to rivet top
skin
of wing, and It was definitely different to work with. Much harder surface. The
skins have the stiffness of much thicker alclad and are a brushed silver
appearance.
In all honesty, primer gives us something to talk about where there is a wide
diversity in acceptable answers.
John Oliveira
N909RV reserved
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Are you sure the Sherwin Williams #988 aerosol self-etching primer sticks
> better than Tempo Zinc Oxide? A friend who is using 988 is always commenting
> that it doesn't stick very well, so I've been using Tempo Zinc Oxide.
>
> My usual procedure is to first wash with soapy water and a scotch brite pad,
> then etch, then spray the Zinc Oxide. It seems to stick OK, but if you're
> getting significantly better results with the 988, I'm tempted to switch.
>
> I agree with the comments about Tempo's inferior delivery system. I find
> that the first half of the can goes on pretty well, but the second half
> splatters and does not produce a good spray. I know a lot of people also
> find the cans clog, but I've only had that happen once, and I was able to
> remove the clog by following the procedure mentioned on the back of the can.
>
> One other thing I've heard about 988 is that it doesn't form a moisture
> barrier. I'm not sure zinc oxide does either, since I can't get Tempo to
> return my calls, but since it's supposed to be a replacement for zinc
> chromate, which has been used on planes for years, I figured it would be OK.
>
> Any comments from anyone?
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> Irvine, CA
> RV9A with a case of Zinc Oxide in the garage
>
> >
> > Ditto here, the RV builders in our Rochester, NY chapter are using it almost
> > exclusively. We have tried some other things, and this seems great. I also
> > tried
> > the Tempo, and did not like it. I tried the Zinc Oxide, it is on my
> > Horizontal
> > stab and vertical, not great, scratches off too easy.
> >
> > John Oliveira
> > N909RV Reserved
> >
> > Bryan Wood wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Ditto, I'm using the same primer as you and am very happy with it.
> >> Bryan Wood
> >>
> >> Ewinne(at)aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> For a time, I made the BIG mistake of using Tempo primer in spray cans from
> >>> Aircraft Spruce. This is an extremely inferior product in a consistently
> >>> defetive delivery system.
> >>>
> >>> On advice of some folks on the list, I found an automotive paint store and
> >>> now use Sherwin Williams #988 aerosol self-etching primer. Works very well,
> >>> sprays like a dream. Very toxic (like all self-etching primers) but flashes
> >>> quickly, is not particlarly temperature sensitive, and dries hard and
> >>> smooth.
> >>> I'm now very comfortable priming parts.
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Hi Steve,
I can appreciate where you are and what your going through. I did the same
just a few months ago. Ultimately I bought the complete RV kit from
Cleveland. I found the tools funtional and the people there very helpfull.
I'll bet you could order a complet kit and return for credit any tools you
thought you wouldn't need.
I did not get an air drill. I use a cordless drill-driver and have a drill
press. I have yet to use the ear protectors (phones). The dead blow hammer
at $45 was something I would do without. I think you do need a hand squeezer
for the emp. If your not in a hurry you might find a used one.
Primer. Go to a few paint stores. Ask questions, read the the directions,
practise on aluminum scraps and do what your comfortable with.
Dennis Thomas
RV9 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/16/01 |
Hi Folks...
Sorry to barge in on the -9 list, but was following your primer thread with
interest. I'm using SW 988 self etching on my -6aQB, but would like to point
out Sherwin Williams recommends their "UltraClean" to use with it, about $9
qt. I have used both with excellent results. Just my .02 for what it's worth.
Best to all.
Jerry Cochran
Sherwood, OR
RV6aQB wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
Hello Steve,
You are very correct in that having the right tools can make the difference
between having an enjoyable building experience and getting frustrated with
everything you do. That's also been my philosophy for just about everything
that involves tools (cars, woodworking, construction, etc.), which is why I
tend to be a bit of a tool nut (as may be reflected by my choices mentioned
below).
I started with with the Avery tool kits (both RV kits) and purchased them
at Oshkosh last year. The only things I left out were some miscelaneous
items like marker pens, steel rules and C-clamps - things that I already
had around the shop. The Avery people are wonderful to work with and will
tailor your kit to your needs. If you want to add or delete items they will
apply the discount to any additions. I chose to upgrade from the standard
air drill to the 1/4" souix air drill and don't regret it for a minute! It
is very small and lightweight - you will spend many hours with this in your
hand, it's a worthwhile upgrade. Everything else in the kits you will use
at some point, and also just consider this to be a starting point.
I've also done business with Cleaveland, they too are top notch; and they
are only a few hundred miles away so I can place an order and have it
within two days with standard shipping.
>1) Does anyone have experience of the Avery (starter) and Cleveland
>(emp.) kits of tools. OK?
Yes, as mentioned above I would consider both the Avery kits together as a
starter kit.
>2) Did they have pretty much what you needed?
I can't speak for the Cleaveland kit, but the Avery kits cover the basics.
>3) Do you need a Hand Squeezer for the emp..
You will definately want a hand squeezer for the tail. Squeezed rivets
always come out much nicer than driven rivets.
>4) Air drill or electric? If electric what sort do I need? Speed? (I
am
>budget conscious but one can spend too little!)
Some people get by with a cordless drill, but generally the speed of these
are significantly lower than the air drills. Unlike steel, aluminum drills
very nicely with a high speed.
>5) What do I need to drive the cut/polishing wheel? Speed?
If your refering to the scotchbrite wheel, just your basic bench grinder is
fine, 3/4hp or larger preferred.
>6) Cleveland supply a 2" cut/polish in their kit. Is this more
suitable
>on the emp.
I ordered Avery's small scotchbrite wheels (1" and 2") and use these almost
exclusively for edge deburring in a standard die grinder - highly
recommended.
Here's some other tools that I've purchased and reccommend, keeping in mind
that some may not be "necessary, but they certainly make the building
experience more enjoyable:
Pnuematic rivet squeezer - Optional but highly reccommended (with
adjustable set)!
Additional squeezer yokes - longeron, 4", and no hole(If you get the avery
hand squeezer the same yokes will fit the pnuematic squeezer)
Unibit(or 2) - you will need one at some point
Vixen file - very nice for dressing edges or beveling skins
#4, #6, and #8 countersinks and dimple dies - gonna have lot's of flush
head screws!
Visegrip dimple tools - nice for close quarter dimping
Pop-rivet dimple dies - only used a couple times so far, but when you
need'em, you need'em!
Avery offset long backrivet set - excellent for elevator spars.
Rivet shaver - you're going to have some rivets that just don't set right.
Cheap cordless screwdriver and deburing bit - Many hours with this tool
also!
A dozen or so side grip clecos - very useful.
Small scotchbrite wheel and die grinder - see above.
Cleaveland vosborgh edge former
Back rivet plate - homemade works fine
Pop rivet puller - a good one and a cheap one to shave the nose off so you
can rvit the tank Z-brackets.
And the list continues to grow with each stage!
Good luck,
Todd Houg
N194TH (reserved) - ("one -9 for T.H.)
http://www.toddhoug.com
Deburring and dimpling wings - almost ready for primer!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
Hello Steve
Just wanted to add my $.02 to the excellent response from Todd Houg. My
experience with Avery matches his. Some additional comments:
Vans Aircraft told me that the Avery 20 inch throat hand riveting and
dimpling tool was not quite deep enough to reach all of the belly skins
on the RV-9A. Bob Avery told me several months ago that he was
reworking his tooling to increase the throat depth on this tool.
I believe that my Horizontal Stabilizer skin leading edges were somewhat
underbent. I finally cut a third shortened cradle block and placed it
right next to the mid nose ribs to get the skins to conform to the ribs.
Also had trouble finding anything to buck the rivets in that narrow
area. I now have an Avery # 685 Bucking Bar which would have been ideal
for that area. I also purchased their # 610 Bucking Bar which fits the
wing leading edge ribs very well.
Good luck with your kit.
Dean Van Winkle
Empennage complete, starting on wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Tank Skin Assembly - Tip |
I have seen a couple of notes from people who had trouble getting the
tank skins assembled to the ribs. Trying the normal method of pushing
the ribs straight down while the skin was in the cradle was agonizing.
I can sympathize with the one forum writer who said he drew blood. I
did not have that experience, but It did take me about 5 hours to get it
clecoed together on the first tank.
I did the second one today, and came up with a process that worked very
well. About an hour to cleco together.
First without the skin in the cradle, cleco all of the ribs to the
bottom skin. Don't bother with a cleco in the forward most hole, it
won't be able to help bend the skin at this point. Then lubricate the
forward-upper flanges of the ribs. I used a water based cutting
lubricant, but any light grease would also work. Then push the assembly
down into the cradle. Begin clecoing on the end ribs with the furthest
aft hole. You can gently push the rib down far enough to align the hole
with relative ease. Work your way toward the front clecoing every other
hole until the nose, where I did every one. The grease eases the
alignment process and allows the ribs to slide down against the skin.
As I said Much faster, without the agony and blood.
I figured this out when doing the final assembly on the first tank and
realized how much easier it was to assemble the ribs with pro seal
lubricating them than dry.
Don't worry about the grease, everything gets scrubbed and cleaned with
solvent prior to final assembly.
Hope this helps someone else.
John Oliveira -
N909RV reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcel Bourgon" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Skin Assembly - Tip |
Thank you for the info. I have been dreading the tanks
Marcel in El Paso,working on wings
----- Original Message -----
From: John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 5:11 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Tank Skin Assembly - Tip
>
> I have seen a couple of notes from people who had trouble getting the
> tank skins assembled to the ribs. Trying the normal method of pushing
> the ribs straight down while the skin was in the cradle was agonizing.
> I can sympathize with the one forum writer who said he drew blood. I
> did not have that experience, but It did take me about 5 hours to get it
> clecoed together on the first tank.
>
> I did the second one today, and came up with a process that worked very
> well. About an hour to cleco together.
>
> First without the skin in the cradle, cleco all of the ribs to the
> bottom skin. Don't bother with a cleco in the forward most hole, it
> won't be able to help bend the skin at this point. Then lubricate the
> forward-upper flanges of the ribs. I used a water based cutting
> lubricant, but any light grease would also work. Then push the assembly
> down into the cradle. Begin clecoing on the end ribs with the furthest
> aft hole. You can gently push the rib down far enough to align the hole
> with relative ease. Work your way toward the front clecoing every other
> hole until the nose, where I did every one. The grease eases the
> alignment process and allows the ribs to slide down against the skin.
> As I said Much faster, without the agony and blood.
>
> I figured this out when doing the final assembly on the first tank and
> realized how much easier it was to assemble the ribs with pro seal
> lubricating them than dry.
>
> Don't worry about the grease, everything gets scrubbed and cleaned with
> solvent prior to final assembly.
>
> Hope this helps someone else.
>
> John Oliveira -
> N909RV reserved
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hey, Steve welcome to the cadre of RV-9A builders. It's a great project.
>> 1) Does anyone have experience of the Avery (starter) and Cleveland
(emp.) kits of tools. OK?<<
I went with the Avery tools completely. Both A & B kits. You get a better
discount, assuming that you are committed to comleting the project. Best
quality but a little pricier. Cleveland appears to good value - quality
verses price. If you are a little unsure buy the Avery starter kit or the
equivalent tools from Cleveland. I would not scrimp on airframe tools
(dimpling, deburring, riviting, etc.).
>> 2) Did they have pretty much what you needed?<<
They get you started - and have most of what you need. You will be looking
at a few additional tools (crimping, etc.) - but that will be at the
fuselage stage - when you will be toatally committed.
>> 3) Do you need a Hand Squeezer for the emp.<<
You never "need" a squeezer. It just gives you consistant quality at a
faster pace. You could postpone the squeezer until you order the wings. I
would buy the C-Frame tool, however, for dimpling the empenage skins.
>> 4) Air drill or electric? If electric what sort do I need? Speed? (I am
budget conscious but one can spend too little!) <<
I bought the air tool. However, I use my 12Volt Firestorm cordless drill
for at least 95% of the time - possibly my highest used tool. You need a
backup battery. I like the 12Volt because it is strong enough for aluminum
but it is lighter. It is great not to have to drag the air hose around.
The air tool is good but not really needed.
>> 5) What do I need to drive the cut/polishing wheel? Speed?<<
Are you talking about the Scotchbrite?? I mounted mine in the drill press
at a medium speed. This is something you will want to do. You can also use
a variable speed Dremel tool for some cutting and polishing at the work
table.
>> 6) Cleveland supply a 2" cut/polish in their kit. Is this more suitable
on the emp.<<
I used the 4" Scotchbrite for everything on the empenage. You need specific
deburring tools for edges and holes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Jaques" <bjaques(at)jps.net> |
Hello Ken:
Bill Jaques in California. I am also a new builder and am working on
my wings.
I have had little trouble with the kit so far.
Feel free to email me with any questions will be
glad to help
if I can
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Gibbs <agibbs(at)tideworks.com> |
| Subject: | Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers) |
I now understand that riveting is the "reward" activity for the months of
preparation we do on every part of the airplane. I prime my first parts
this weekend (Ranthane 2-part from A/C Spruce) and have a quick question.
What is the trick to identifing your parts after you clean off all the
markings? Do you clean them then re-mark with a sharpie pen and still see
it thru the primer? Does the primer dissolve the ink? I am amazed at how
easy it is to get the parts mixed up and have done it twice allready even
with the markings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unknown <oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers) |
I clean and then use a Sharpie to mark (a wide one) You can see the black
through the primer. Works OK
John Oliveira
N909RV reserved
Alex Gibbs writes:
>
> I now understand that riveting is the "reward" activity for the months of
> preparation we do on every part of the airplane. I prime my first parts
> this weekend (Ranthane 2-part from A/C Spruce) and have a quick question.
> What is the trick to identifing your parts after you clean off all the
> markings? Do you clean them then re-mark with a sharpie pen and still see
> it thru the primer? Does the primer dissolve the ink? I am amazed at how
> easy it is to get the parts mixed up and have done it twice allready even
> with the markings.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers) |
on 3/19/01 10:15 AM, Alex Gibbs at agibbs(at)tideworks.com wrote:
>
> I now understand that riveting is the "reward" activity for the months of
> preparation we do on every part of the airplane. I prime my first parts
> this weekend (Ranthane 2-part from A/C Spruce) and have a quick question.
> What is the trick to identifing your parts after you clean off all the
> markings? Do you clean them then re-mark with a sharpie pen and still see
> it thru the primer? Does the primer dissolve the ink? I am amazed at how
> easy it is to get the parts mixed up and have done it twice allready even
> with the markings.
>
>
Alex,
I hang little pieces of safety wire on parts that I don't want to mix up.
You could hang a tag on the wire, but I usually do other tricks to tell the
parts apart. For example, if I have six identical ribs, I'll put the wire
through the hole closest to the leading edge on the first rib, the second
closest hole on the second rib, etc. On the trailing edge of the ailerons
and flaps, I put the wire through the end hole, and when the wire is on the
left side, I know the part is right-side up. Write down your coding system
so you don't get things mixed up.
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Laurence" <plaurencepc(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers) |
>>What is the trick to identifing your parts after you clean off all the
>markings? Do you clean them then re-mark with a sharpie pen and still see
>it thru the primer? Does the primer dissolve the ink? I am amazed at how
>easy it is to get the parts mixed up and have done it twice allready even
>with the markings.
Alex,
This is the way I did mine-
Make wire hooks from coat hangers. Purchase tags that have wire attached to
them ( brand escapes me) but if interested I'll get dig up the source). Mark
on them with magic indelible marker and tie the tag to the coat hanger.
I used this method through etching and alodining. When the primer is dry,
mark on the part with the magic marker . Tags can take a beating. I used
mine over several times.
Peter Laurence
Former RV6A builder soon to be RV9er
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers) |
Alex, I used an electric engraver for many of the parts that I needed to
identify. The engraver uses tiny punches and doesn't "scratch" the material
so fractures should not occur there. Other parts I just used a marker on
prior to priming. When using the Sharpie style markers they bleed through
the primer very well and I think they'll bleed through the paint as well so
I wouldn't use them on anything that is going to get paint.
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (res) Gooping up the tanks
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Gibbs" <agibbs(at)tideworks.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 12:15 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers)
>
> I now understand that riveting is the "reward" activity for the months of
> preparation we do on every part of the airplane. I prime my first parts
> this weekend (Ranthane 2-part from A/C Spruce) and have a quick question.
> What is the trick to identifing your parts after you clean off all the
> markings? Do you clean them then re-mark with a sharpie pen and still see
> it thru the primer? Does the primer dissolve the ink? I am amazed at how
> easy it is to get the parts mixed up and have done it twice allready even
> with the markings.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers) |
I use a light engraver as well. I noticed that several of the parts from Vans
come with a light engraved number on them including some of the anodized
parts. I lightly rounded the tip of the engraver so it barely makes a mark.
Barely enough that I had trouble finding it on some parts and I knew where to
look. I have to be very careful when scotchbriting the parts when cleaning
since the "roughness" of the scotch brite is usually more than the engraved
piece. I usually only use a number with a code in my log book, e.g. each rib
in the wing was labelled 1 - 15 with 1 being on inboard end. Keeps the mark
to a minimum.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
Working on Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Jaques" <bjaques(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to Prime RV9 HS (not a question about primers) |
Hello Alex:
I remark them as I finish getting them ready to paint. I also mark it
on paper in order from
right to left as I hang them for painting and I remark them if needed when I
take them down.
You paint the primer on very thin it you are using etching paint so most of
the markings should show.
Bill Jaques Grass Valley CA...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Yarbrough" <pyarbroug(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | New RV-9A builder in Cedar Rapids, Iowa |
Hello All
I'm just picked up my RV-9A empennage kit last week from Van's, took a
building class from Henry Gorgas and am excited about getting started. I've
completed the inventory of the empennage kit and have everything and it all
looks good. I'm waiting for some tools I've ordered so I can start
building. Is anyone else building a -9 in Cedar Rapids? Does anyone know
where the hotbed of RV building activity is around here? I'm new to the
area and to RV building and want to make some contacts.
Paul
(RV-9a empennage just out of the box)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-9A builder in Cedar Rapids, Iowa |
Take a trip to Dubuque and confer with Lyle Heffel or come over to the
Quad-Cities and see Keith Williams flying RV-6, Mike and Roger Nightingale's
RV-9 or Greg Klema's RV-4. Warren Brecheisen has a 6 going in Waterloo and
the man to see for building help is Ron White even though he is a LongEz
person. Join chapter 33 as they can be more help than you can imagine.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Yarbrough" <pyarbroug(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 6:23 AM
Subject: RV9-List: New RV-9A builder in Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>
> Hello All
>
> I'm just picked up my RV-9A empennage kit last week from Van's, took a
> building class from Henry Gorgas and am excited about getting started.
I've
> completed the inventory of the empennage kit and have everything and it
all
> looks good. I'm waiting for some tools I've ordered so I can start
> building. Is anyone else building a -9 in Cedar Rapids? Does anyone know
> where the hotbed of RV building activity is around here? I'm new to the
> area and to RV building and want to make some contacts.
>
> Paul
> (RV-9a empennage just out of the box)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Whitaker <rmwhitaker(at)lanl.gov> |
Gang,
Is anyone pre-bending the trailing edges of the skins of
their control surfaces (rudders, elevators, ailerons), as they
would and overlapping skin joint, to get the skin to lay tight
against the wedge? I was real happy with the way the double
flush riveting turned out, but was less than joyful at the way
the skins laid down against the trailing edge wedge.
Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
edge where the opposing flange pinches very close? I've tried
using the pop rivet method using the nail. I can't get that stinking
nail in the hole with the opposing flange so close.
Thanks in advance,
Rob in New Mexico
RV-9 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
Hello Rob,
I did use the vosborgh (sp?) edge former available Cleaveland to pre-from
the trailing edges of my skins prior to squeezing the double flush rivets.
Excpet for one of my elevator skins that I dimpled before I remembered to
use the edge former - too late then! It worked out reasonably well and
seemed to keep the edges fairly tight. You can see how they turned out on my
website at http://www.toddhoug.com.
For dimpling in the close quarters I used the vise grip dimplers (from Avery
I believe). I still had to bend the flanges open slightly to get those in
there, but they don't need much clearance.
Good Luck,
Todd Houg in Minnesota
N194RV - "one -9 for T.H."
Almost ready to prime the wings
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Whitaker [mailto:rmwhitaker(at)lanl.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 9:14 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Trailing Edges
Gang,
Is anyone pre-bending the trailing edges of the skins of
their control surfaces (rudders, elevators, ailerons), as they
would and overlapping skin joint, to get the skin to lay tight
against the wedge? I was real happy with the way the double
flush riveting turned out, but was less than joyful at the way
the skins laid down against the trailing edge wedge.
Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
edge where the opposing flange pinches very close? I've tried
using the pop rivet method using the nail. I can't get that stinking
nail in the hole with the opposing flange so close.
Thanks in advance,
Rob in New Mexico
RV-9 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
I used a 1/4 inch plate with a hole drilled through and a bevel cut as the
back plate and then used the dimple die with my rivet gun to create the
dimple. The trick is finding something that will fit through the end. I also
drilled matching holes with the rest of the flange so that I could cleco it
to the rib to hold it. This worked for me.
Good luck
Larry Perryman
Conroe Tx. Wings due 1 May.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Whitaker [mailto:rmwhitaker(at)lanl.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 9:14 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Trailing Edges
Gang,
Is anyone pre-bending the trailing edges of the skins of
their control surfaces (rudders, elevators, ailerons), as they
would and overlapping skin joint, to get the skin to lay tight
against the wedge? I was real happy with the way the double
flush riveting turned out, but was less than joyful at the way
the skins laid down against the trailing edge wedge.
Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
edge where the opposing flange pinches very close? I've tried
using the pop rivet method using the nail. I can't get that stinking
nail in the hole with the opposing flange so close.
Thanks in advance,
Rob in New Mexico
RV-9 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
on 3/21/01 7:14 AM, Robert Whitaker at rmwhitaker(at)lanl.gov wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Is anyone pre-bending the trailing edges of the skins of
> their control surfaces (rudders, elevators, ailerons),
I didn't pre-bend the skins on the rudder and ailerons. The rudder could be
better, but the ailerons came out just fine. I'm going to fill the rudder
trailing edge with Superfill. I saw another 9A builder do this to his
trailing edge and I think it will look just fine when it's painted.
> Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
> y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
> edge
I bought the Avery Vice grips that have been converted into a dimpling
tool. It worked great on my flaps and ailerons. I wish I would have had it
when I was working on the empennage.
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A
Irvine, CA
Working on flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Santic <martinsan(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-9A builder in Cedar Rapids, Iowa |
Hi Paul,
There are 3 RV-9A kits being assembled in the Quad Cities area. The three of us
are all getting started with the empennage. Would be more than happy to talk to
you via phone or arrange a visit.
Paul Yarbrough wrote:
>
> Hello All
>
> I'm just picked up my RV-9A empennage kit last week from Van's, took a
> building class from Henry Gorgas and am excited about getting started. I've
> completed the inventory of the empennage kit and have everything and it all
> looks good. I'm waiting for some tools I've ordered so I can start
> building. Is anyone else building a -9 in Cedar Rapids? Does anyone know
> where the hotbed of RV building activity is around here? I'm new to the
> area and to RV building and want to make some contacts.
>
> Paul
> (RV-9a empennage just out of the box)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
> Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
> y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
> edge where the opposing flange pinches very close? I've tried
> using the pop rivet method using the nail. I can't get that stinking
> nail in the hole with the opposing flange so close.
Rob,
I use a chisel. You must drill it with #30 hole, then machine countersink
it. You can then use it as the female dimple die. Slide it under your
flange, then use a male dimple die and a small hammer on top to pound it
down. Not very elegant, but it works.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
I have not pre bent any of my trailing edges, and the have come out very
nice. I think one of the secrets is to countersink the wedge so the
dimple really sits flush into the countersink. Another tip. If you use
a squeezer to dimple, the dimples will not be as crisp as the frame with
hammer. They will be a little more rounded which requires a deeper
countersink. I think my trailing edges look great. No real gaps and the
skin lays down well against the wedge.
I also use the avery back rivet tool to drive from the shop side, that is
90% done, then flip it over and use a regular flush riveting mushroom
against the head. So far I have done empennage and ailerons
John Oliveira
N909RV Reserved
Robert Whitaker wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Is anyone pre-bending the trailing edges of the skins of
> their control surfaces (rudders, elevators, ailerons), as they
> would and overlapping skin joint, to get the skin to lay tight
> against the wedge? I was real happy with the way the double
> flush riveting turned out, but was less than joyful at the way
> the skins laid down against the trailing edge wedge.
>
> Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
> y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
> edge where the opposing flange pinches very close? I've tried
> using the pop rivet method using the nail. I can't get that stinking
> nail in the hole with the opposing flange so close.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Rob in New Mexico
> RV-9 Emp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
You can open up the gap for dimpling and then rebend it for riveting.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: Working on tanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Whitaker" <rmwhitaker(at)lanl.gov>
> Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
> y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
>
> Rob in New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | See Vans Web Site |
Anyone looked at the Vans web site lately? They have the RV-7 / 7A on the
site and plan to have it at Sun-N-Fun. Looks like a souped up RV-6 with
match hole drilling.
Larry Perryman
Still looking for Houston/ Conroe builders.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Whitaker <rmwhitaker(at)lanl.gov> |
Thanks for all the great tips in response to my
questions. This list and the people who contribute
are a great resource.
Regards,
Rob in NM
RV-9 Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
Rob, I used the dimple dies that are welded onto the end of a set of
small vise grips sold by avery. It worked out very well.
Jim Streit
90073
Robert Whitaker wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Is anyone pre-bending the trailing edges of the skins of
> their control surfaces (rudders, elevators, ailerons), as they
> would and overlapping skin joint, to get the skin to lay tight
> against the wedge? I was real happy with the way the double
> flush riveting turned out, but was less than joyful at the way
> the skins laid down against the trailing edge wedge.
>
> Since I'm here. I'll ask another question. What tricky ways are
> y'all using to dimple the flanges of the ribs close to the trailing
> edge where the opposing flange pinches very close? I've tried
> using the pop rivet method using the nail. I can't get that stinking
> nail in the hole with the opposing flange so close.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Rob in New Mexico
> RV-9 Emp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Jaques" <bjaques(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
Hello Greg:
I took my tool used to straighten bends and open the rib flange up
then dimple it and bend it back. I also bought a thin nosed squeeze
neck which fits in all but the last rivet hole.
Bill Jaques bjaques(at)jps.net grass valley ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Tips installation |
Hi folks,
The fiberglass tips are a little long for the elevator recess and also bump
into the shop head side of the counter balance 426 rivets...are you all
cutting the glass down to 1/2 inch or so from the beginning of the recessed
portion with a band saw, hand saw, belt sander, etc. to make them fit snugly
against the counter balance rib? I'd like to get a few ideas before goofing
it up too much. Thanks for the info.
Doug Lomheim
OK City, OK
9 left/rt elev.'s (Wings on the way)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tips installation |
The tip should be trimmed to about a half inch. There was a score mark on my
tips. I trimmed mine with a cut off wheel and it went very quickly. They
definitely did not go in all the way to the counterbalance rib. I actually was
impressed with how well they fit. Rather than do them later in the project, I
fitted all the empennage tips, primed and painted them before moving on to the
wing kit. I thought they fit very well. I did use #6 nut plates on the bottom
of the rudder so I can service the tail navigation light and strobe if
necessary.
John Oliveira
N909RV reserved
DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> The fiberglass tips are a little long for the elevator recess and also bump
> into the shop head side of the counter balance 426 rivets...are you all
> cutting the glass down to 1/2 inch or so from the beginning of the recessed
> portion with a band saw, hand saw, belt sander, etc. to make them fit snugly
> against the counter balance rib? I'd like to get a few ideas before goofing
> it up too much. Thanks for the info.
>
> Doug Lomheim
> OK City, OK
> 9 left/rt elev.'s (Wings on the way)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
I will confess to the easy way out. I used countersink tool on the aft
two positions on aileron ribs, the used blind rivets on the farthest aft
position. I found that when doing elevators, I could manage to get the
last one, but it was not pretty. Think about it. We will do the whole
bottom surface of the flaps with blind rivets.
I did mad a tool from a 1/8th plate steel piece and countersink to use as
the female die which I used on all but the outer position.
John Oliveira
N909RV Reserved
Bill Jaques wrote:
>
> Hello Greg:
>
> I took my tool used to straighten bends and open the rib flange up
> then dimple it and bend it back. I also bought a thin nosed squeeze
> neck which fits in all but the last rivet hole.
>
> Bill Jaques bjaques(at)jps.net grass valley ca
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Wood <brywd(at)pacbell.net> |
Hi all,
How long are you all leaving the pitot tubing where it sticks out of
the root of the wing?
Bryan Wood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Flap leading edge skin/pop rivet problem |
Fellow 9A builders,
How do you put the pop rivets in on the bottom of the flap leading edge skin
next to the hinges? My pop rivet puller is too short and too wide to fit
next to the hinges.
Thanks for the help,
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap leading edge skin/pop rivet problem |
I have an old Craftsman swivel-head pop rivet gun that I was able to
use after grinding a large flat side area away. Actually Vans suggests
doing this very thing to allow the riveter to get in closer to spar channels.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 12:36 PM
Subject: RV9-List: Flap leading edge skin/pop rivet problem
>
> Fellow 9A builders,
>
> How do you put the pop rivets in on the bottom of the flap leading edge skin
> next to the hinges? My pop rivet puller is too short and too wide to fit
> next to the hinges.
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> Irvine, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 03/22/01 |
Howdy Rob,
Good to see you on the list. There was another suggestion earlier on how to
dimple those close quarter flanges near the trailing edges and that was
using 1/4" plate steel as the female dimple die. You slide the steel plate
into the space and mark through the flange holes (for spacing) where to
drill through on the steel plate. Drill and countersink the holes, then use
the male dimple die with steel rod from dimple die tool.
Sounds like you're doing well. I'm slow going on the elevators.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Elevators
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Grunenwald" <grunnie(at)uswest.net> |
"RV9-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 03/22/01 |
Howdy Rob,
Good to see you on the list. There was another suggestion earlier on how to
dimple those close quarter flanges near the trailing edges and that was
using 1/4" plate steel as the female dimple die. You slide the steel plate
into the space and mark through the flange holes (for spacing) where to
drill through on the steel plate. Drill and countersink the holes, then use
the male dimple die with steel rod from dimple die tool.
Sounds like you're doing well. I'm slow going on the elevators.
Matt Grunenwald
-9A Elevators
Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Coldenhoff <borg(at)primenet.com> |
Listers -
Traffic on the list has been light, so I'll stop lurking
and introduce myself.
I have just mailed out my order for the RV-9a empennage
and wing kits.
I am located in the Phoenix, Arizona area and am looking
forward with great anticipation to working on my kit.
I spent today working on my website which will contain
a journal of my progress. Hopefully there will be some
useful stuff there someday to inspire or help somebody.
I am sure I will have lots of basic questions once the
tail kit arrives.
Until then, Howdy from the wild wild west.
--
+---------------------+--------------------------------+
| Tim Coldenhoff | borg 'at' primenet 'dot' com |
| Software Consultant | http://www.primenet.com/~borg |
+---------------------+--------------------------------+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com |
Welcome to the list. Lot's of RV-9s out there but I think the bulk of the
mail goes through the regular RV list. I am signed on to all of them so I
don't always even know which one I am reading. You will love the kit.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
Working on Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Kelsonhoffrv9(at)aol.com>
> You will love the kit.
> Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
Tim, as Curt says, you will love the kit - but - I have been working on the
wing tanks and I'm not so hot on Pro-Seal and tank construction methods. I
bought some cartridges of Chem-Seal from ACS and borrowed an air powered
dispenser which works pretty good but still the mess keeps spreading. After
I get them sealed up I suppose pressurizing them with a little air is a good
way to test, say 4 psi. Is that what others have done?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: Working on tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
August 05, 2000 - April 01, 2001
RV9-Archive.digest.vol-aa