RV9-Archive.digest.vol-ad
December 14, 2001 - February 21, 2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Sliding Canopy Rear Pin Mount hole locations |
I have discovered that the rivet locations aft of F721B (ref: dwg. 25,
detail A) that fasten F757S Plate to the F718 Longerons may later interfere
with the holes used to attach C677 Rear Pin Mount to the longeron (ref: dwg.
42 detail B). In my case I found that it would have be better to not put
the 2 rivets in that later turned out to be under the Rear Pin Mounts. The
Rear Pin Mounts are attached with bolts that will be in about the same
location as the rivets.
Albert Gardner
Working on canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland and Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Steel Control Tubes |
I tried lots of little bitty taps with a hammer and the cupped rivet set mounted
in
a steel block, and still bent one over. I also tried mounting the rivet sets into
holes drilled into a vice and bent two rivets over. Bruce Cruikshank then TIG welded
the Threaded Rod Ends onto the steel tubes and they look good. I added two MSP-42's
to each end so they should be secure. Thanks for the advice.
Leland
Gary Newsted wrote:
>
> Try lots of little bitty taps on low pressure without appying a lot of arm
> pressure. You could even resort to a ball-peen hammer instead of the gun.
> They bend if you are leaning on them with heavy pressure. It also helps if you
> take extra care to make the holes as tight as possible. Drop one drill bit size
> so the rivets press firmly in (may be too late for this trick if you've already
> drilled). I clamped a dimple-die in a vise, layed the control rod across it,
> and riveted downward. Bent the first one, before I realized I was appying
> excess gorrilla. Gotta go-rrilla-easy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [ PLEASE READ ] : Matronics Network Upgrade Mon. 12/17/01 |
Listers,
According to my ISP, Speakeasy, they will be doing some sort of "backbone
upgrade" Monday, 12/17/01. Their message doesn't mention whether or not
this will impact connectivity for any length of time. I wanted everyone to
know that there might be a time when access to the Matronics Web Server and
Email Lists might be unavailable. If there's a problem, I'll post a
message from a different email address with details.
Bottom line: Hopefully nobody will notice...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <flying(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Tail bottom skin |
Hey, did anyone try dimpling the F-779 Tail Bottom Skin, or did you
machine countersink it? Also, does anyone know what the extra 3/32 hole
is for that is in the center bottom of F-779, just aft of the F-711B
bulkhead?
Gary in Montana, dimpling aft fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gene(at)nvaircraft.com |
| Subject: | Tail bottom skin |
I believe the extra hole is for your tail tie-down.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail bottom skin |
I did a c'sink on my F-779 Tail Bottom Skin since it is 0.040" thick.
(Van's indicated you can dimple it if you want to.)
Something to remember in either case, since the Lower J-Stringer goes
"inside" the F-779 Skin you will not need to be dimpled from the F-711
Bulkhead aft. (About 20 holes or so.)
Dave
90347
Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary & Sandi" <flying(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Tail bottom skin
>
> Hey, did anyone try dimpling the F-779 Tail Bottom Skin, or did you
> machine countersink it? Also, does anyone know what the extra 3/32 hole
> is for that is in the center bottom of F-779, just aft of the F-711B
> bulkhead?
>
> Gary in Montana, dimpling aft fuselage.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail bottom skin |
there is one hole for the tie down. there is another that I believe is
for vacating water accumulated in the fuselage. I put a 'dummy' rivet in
it. Now who is the dummy?
Barry POte RV9a fuselage
gene(at)nvaircraft.com wrote:
>
>
> I believe the extra hole is for your tail tie-down.
>
> Gene
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Torque Values for AN Bolts |
My Standard Aircraft Handbook Sixth Edition shows 20-25 inch-pounds for a
10-32 Standard Fine Thread Nut (MS20365, AN310, AN315).
Seems a little low. Any comments?
Dave Nicholson
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Values for AN Bolts |
Not at all, if you need more force than that to hold whatever it is you are
bolting together, then you need a bigger bolt.
cliff
>
> My Standard Aircraft Handbook Sixth Edition shows 20-25 inch-pounds for a
> 10-32 Standard Fine Thread Nut (MS20365, AN310, AN315).
>
> Seems a little low. Any comments?
>
> Dave Nicholson
> 90347
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Values for AN Bolts |
That is what is listed in Chapter 7 for bolt torques in AC 43.13-1b so it is
correct.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Torque Values for AN Bolts
My Standard Aircraft Handbook Sixth Edition shows 20-25 inch-pounds for a
10-32 Standard Fine Thread Nut (MS20365, AN310, AN315).
Seems a little low. Any comments?
Dave Nicholson
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cloudchaser" <flying(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/19/01 |
My Standard Aircraft Handbook Sixth Edition shows 20-25 inch-pounds
for a
10-32 Standard Fine Thread Nut (MS20365, AN310, AN315).
Seems a little low. Any comments?
Dave Nicholson
90347
Dave.....that is what my handbook says, too, and I thought it seemed
low. I know it is easy to apply more torque than that with a nutdriver.
I guess I had been overtorqueing things just going by feel.
Gary 90263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/19/01 |
No, that seems to be right. 4 inch long wrench...just snug.
Barry POte RV9a fuselage
Cloudchaser wrote:
>
>
>
> My Standard Aircraft Handbook Sixth Edition shows 20-25 inch-pounds
> for a
> 10-32 Standard Fine Thread Nut (MS20365, AN310, AN315).
>
> Seems a little low. Any comments?
>
> Dave Nicholson
> 90347
>
> Dave.....that is what my handbook says, too, and I thought it seemed
> low. I know it is easy to apply more torque than that with a nutdriver.
> I guess I had been overtorqueing things just going by feel.
> Gary 90263
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Follow up question on: Torque Values for AN Bolts |
A follow up to the question below:
Does the nylon ring in the "Nylock" nuts we use adversely affect the "real
torque" that is applied?
It would seem a "new" nut would have more resistance to turning and a "used"
(but not "over used") nut. Should this be taken into account?.
>
> My Standard Aircraft Handbook Sixth Edition shows 20-25 inch-pounds for a
> 10-32 Standard Fine Thread Nut (MS20365, AN310, AN315).
>
> Seems a little low. Any comments?
>
> Dave Nicholson
> 90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Follow up question on: Torque Values for AN Bolts |
Actually I think we are supposed to measure the torque of the nut turning on
the bolt before seated and add that amount to the total value.
Dennis Thomas
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gene(at)nvaircraft.com |
| Subject: | Follow up question on: Torque Values for AN Bolts |
I have been told on certificated A/C to never re-use fibre lock nuts. I have also
been told that when assembling a part to only tighten finger tight until ready
to permanently attach the part. As to your question on torque I doubt that
it would make a difference you could measure. There are several areas in the
construction using fibre lock that I would replace with castle nuts and cotter
keys, especially in the wing at the aileron bellcrank or any other part that
may need to be adjusted or taken apart at an annual insp.
Gene Park
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Follow up question on: Torque Values for AN Bolts |
One is supposed to determine the torque of turning the fastener on the bolt
before it seats and this amount is added to the total final torque.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
http://www.eaa.org for latest flying rules
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Follow up question on: Torque Values for AN Bolts
A follow up to the question below:
Does the nylon ring in the "Nylock" nuts we use adversely affect the "real
torque" that is applied?
It would seem a "new" nut would have more resistance to turning and a "used"
(but not "over used") nut. Should this be taken into account?.
>
> My Standard Aircraft Handbook Sixth Edition shows 20-25 inch-pounds for a
> 10-32 Standard Fine Thread Nut (MS20365, AN310, AN315).
>
> Seems a little low. Any comments?
>
> Dave Nicholson
> 90347
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Motor Mount Interference |
I went to attach my motor mount to the firewall this afternoon and I found
some interference from the nutplates that are on the lower firewall for
attaching the electric fuel pump. I drilled the firewall for the electric
fuel pump doubler according to the plans and have now had to move the
nutplates 1" inboard to avoid hitting the motor mount. It seems there is
always more to learn.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on firewall fwd at last.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cloudchaser" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Dimpling Spar flanges |
Well, after all the stern warnings to countersink and not dimple spar
flanges, it looks like Van's is implying that we should dimple the
flanges on the F-904 center section bulkhead (front spar carrythrough)
where the bottom skins rivet on. That would also mean we dimple, not
countersink the .040 bottom skins.
Is that what you guys have done?
Gary 90263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
I believe there is a mixture down there. Some dimpled some counter sunk
and some done in reverse. I talked to Van's 2 times before feeling
comfortable. I will pull my drawings and notes, today.
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
Cloudchaser wrote:
>
>
> Well, after all the stern warnings to countersink and not dimple spar
> flanges, it l
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
OK, I checked my drawing notes.
This is what I understood Van's to say, and what I did.
On the drawing that shows the fuselage rivet call outs, there are some
arrows pointing to the fuselage floor/spar joint rivets.
1st the 'spread out arrows': dimple 972, countersink the 976, DO NOTHING
to the spar
2nd the 5 outside 'circled' rivets (right and left sides) on the forward
floor where the landing gear weldment goes: dimple 972, countersink
the 976, AND countersink the INSIDE of the spar for double flush rivets.
That's the ticket.
Barry POte RV9a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cloudchaser" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
Barry.....thanks a bunch for the reply on the spar dimpling. I had come
up with some of the same conclusions, but wanted confirmation, since it
seems inconsistent with the normal procedures.
What I hear you say is that, other than the 4 holes for the floor
stiffeners, and the 5 holes on each side under the gear mounts, we DO
DIMPLE the 904 spar flange, right? It sounds like you have already done
this with no problems.
Also, a couple of additional considerations:
1. For the 4 holes, you need to countersink the 976 skin while it is
clecoed on the F-904 spar bulkhead, because the countersink will go
through 976 and enlarge the hole. This will very slightly countersink
into the 904, and 904 will serve as the guide for the pilot on the
cutter.
2. It looks like a problem to get a countersink tool on the inside of
the F-904 flange for the "double flush" holes. Due to this difficulty,
and the fact that I have 3/32 inch plus between the gear mount and the
flange, I think I'll not "double flush" them. I plan to countersink the
bottom side of the flange on those 10 holes, and make sure the shop
heads clear the gear mounts.
Thanks,
Gary (Freezing in Montana) assembling the mid fuse for riveting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
>
> What I hear you say is that, other than the 4 holes for the floor
> stiffeners, and the 5 holes on each side under the gear mounts, we DO
> DIMPLE the 904 spar flange, right? It sounds like you have already done
> this with no problems.
YES, the flange dimples.
>
> Also, a couple of additional considerations:
>
> 1. For the 4 holes, you need to countersink the 976 skin while it is
> clecoed on the F-904 spar bulkhead, because the countersink will go
> through 976 and enlarge the hole. This will very slightly countersink
> into the 904, and 904 will serve as the guide for the pilot on the cutter
YES AGAIN
> 2. It looks like a problem to get a countersink tool on the inside of
> the F-904 flange for the "double flush" holes. Due to this difficulty,
> and the fact that I have 3/32 inch plus between the gear mount and the
> flange, I think I'll not "double flush" them. I plan to countersink the
> bottom side of the flange on those 10 holes, and make sure the shop
> heads clear the gear mounts.
>
DON'T THINK I AGREE WITH THIS APPROACH. I PUT THE COUNTERSINK BIT IN
THE LONG STEM (OFF MY DEBURRING TOOL) AND, AS I REMEMBER, CHUCKED IT IN
A BATTERY OPERATED DRILL FOR THIS CHORE. THE REASON FOR THE DOUBLE
FLUSH RIVETING IS FOR CLEARANCE. YOU DON'T DOUBLE FLUSH (PARDON THE
EXPRESSION) YOU DON'T HAVE CLEARANCE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
You never dimple spar flanges. Spars are thick enough to countersink and
dimpling them will only distort them. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to
dimple
the hardened alloy used in the 904. The sides don't need it because the
F-904H center section side plates are to be countersunk.
The side skins are all dimpled. The dimples fit into countersunk holes in the
center section side plates. I suppose you could countersink the skins,
but this will enlarge the holes in the skin beyond 3/32, generally not a
good thing to do. There is one exception however. The bottom skins are
overlapped and countersunk in assembly along the F-904 spar flanges only.
But before you do this, consider your options:
There are two ways you can go here.
1) If you plan to dimple the F-972 forward
bottom skin, then you need to counterskin the F-976 center bottom skin in
assembly with the F-904 spar/s.
2) On the other hand, if you choose to
countersink the F-972 forward bottom skin (because it is thick enough), then
don't do anything at all with the F-972 or F-904's. If you go this route, then
you'll save a lot of countersinking of floor stiffeners and will end up with a
smoother bottom skin. Just watch your countersink depth carefully.
Regarding the double-flush five rivets. There's no way my
gear mounts would have fit had I not done this. Be sure you are refering
to the five outboard holes of the BOTTOM 904 flange, not the side gear web
(they are just pilot holes for bolts).
No snow yet in New Hampshire, but it sure is ccccccold!!!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
The bottom skin is .040, which is plenty of material for a machine
countersink, but just a bit too much for a dimple (IMHO). I machine
countersunk the bottom skin, and it came out fine. I would hesitate to
dimple the center section flange, because it distorts it too much. Either
way will be structurally as sound.
The double flush part will be necessary to clear the gear leg mounts. You
won't be able to get a microstop in there, but your deburring tool will do a
nice job.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cloudchaser" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Dimpling Spar flanges
>
> Well, after all the stern warnings to countersink and not dimple spar
> flanges, it looks like Van's is implying that we should dimple the
> flanges on the F-904 center section bulkhead (front spar carrythrough)
> where the bottom skins rivet on. That would also mean we dimple, not
> countersink the .040 bottom skins.
>
> Is that what you guys have done?
>
> Gary 90263
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: Dimpling Spar flanges
......
> There are two ways you can go here.
>
> 1) If you plan to dimple the F-972 forward
> bottom skin, then you need to counterskin the F-976 center bottom skin in
> assembly with the F-904 spar/s.
>
....
> Gary
>
>
Is there any reason why I can't countersink the flanges on the 904 Center
Spar, Dimple the 976 Center Bottom Skin, and Dimple the 972 Forward Bottom
Skin?
Dave Nichonlson
Fuselage
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Spar flanges |
> Is there any reason why I can't countersink the flanges on the 904 Center
> Spar, Dimple the 976 Center Bottom Skin, and Dimple the 972 Forward Bottom
> Skin?
>
> Dave Nichonlson
> Fuselage
> 90347
No reason at all. This will work fine, but I think you'll find that the forward
bottom
skin is just thick enough to countersink if you prefer a smoother finish. It
may
also be thick enough to be a pain in the neck to dimple (use the big hammer!).
If you consider the thickness of all three pieces (including primer between
them)
dimples are not necessary. Some folks say that dimpled sheets are stronger.
I agree with that for thinner sheets. If you do choose to dimple it, you'll
also need
to countersink the floor stiffeners and forward lower longerons.
If you're not ready to do this just yet, hold off and I'll post a note letting
you know
how it goes with the countersink method. I am ready to do this now. If
others
have an opinion on this, speak up!
Gary (Happy New Years!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Flap position sensor wiring |
Well, here's another thing I wish I had done before now. I have electric
flaps and I installed a RCAllen position sensor on the outboard end of
WD-613 Flap Actuator Weldment and wish I had put a hole thru the lower
corner of F-705 Bulkhead for a snap bushing. In my case this would be a
good place to route the wires from the position sensor under the floor
heading forward to the panel.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Forward bottom skin attachment |
Regarding the earlier topic of attaching the forward bottom fuselage skin;
I just finished up. I chose to countersink all holes in the F-972 forward
bottom skin. Nothing was done to the forward two rows of rivets of the
F-976 bottom center skin or the matching rows of the F-904 spars (other
than making the outer five double-flush countersinks done with a long drill
bit).
I had to be extra careful setting the countersink depth, but it came out
great! I also back-riveted all four floor stiffeners to the F-972 before
attaching it to the fuselage. This saved a lot of time and effort. No
countersinking required in the stiffeners and easy to get at for riveting.
I also discovered that I could place my back-riveting steel on top of a
sawhorse and drive the rows of rivets along the F-904 spars without
any assistance (other than a barley water to celebrate).
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cloudchaser" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/01/02 |
I'm sure what you did will be fine, Gary. Just for the record, I also
talked to Van's chief engineer. He recommends dimpling the belly skin,
and says that it is optional to either dimple or countersink the spar
flange. Note that the four holes in the spar flange where the floor
stiffeners attach are called out on the drawings as to be countersunk
THROUGH the F-976 center bottom skin as a unit. This is so you don't
have to fit the stiffeners onto a dimple, those 4 places.
Other than those 4, and the 5 on each side under the gear web, I dimpled
the remaining holes in my flanges, as did Barry, and it was no problem.
The squeezer did fine, it did not distort the flanges, and the anodizing
is still intact The dimples are not as crisp as you would want for the
outer surface where the manufactured head of the rivet seats, but fit
the skin dimples fine.
I expect that dimpling the .040 F-972 skin as Van's recommends will be a
bit tough due to the thickness. I remember the .032 wing root skins as
being a bit harder to get a clean dimple on.
Gary 90263
_______
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Forward bottom skin attachment
Regarding the earlier topic of attaching the forward bottom fuselage
skin;
I just finished up. I chose to countersink all holes in the F-972
forward
bottom skin. Nothing was done to the forward two rows of rivets of
the
F-976 bottom center skin or the matching rows of the F-904 spars
(other
than making the outer five double-flush countersinks done with a long
drill
bit).......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | 4 Rivets forward of the 904 Bulkhead |
DWG 28 (center left F-970 Side Skin Rivet Call-out) shows four AD4263-3.5
Rivets just forward of the Forward F-904 Bulkhead, under the Longerons that
will be very hard to dimple after the sides are attached.
It looks like the F-793 Angle Vent Bracket might attach there.
Has anyone come across this item yet?
Dave
Fuselage
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4 Rivets forward of the 904 Bulkhead |
i DIMPLED THEM WHEN DOING THE REST OF THE SKIN. I SAW IT AS A PROBLEM
ALSO.
bARRY pOTE RV9A FUSELAGE
>
> DWG 28 (center left F-970 Side Skin Rivet Call-out) shows four AD4263-3.5
> Rivets just forward of the Forward F-904 Bulkhead, under the Longerons that
> will be very hard to dimple after the sides are attached.
>
> It looks like the F-793 Angle Vent Bracket might attach there.
>
> Has anyone come across this item yet?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Fresh air brackets |
I got one of the pop rivet sets and they produce about the same results as
the bucking bar.
I just installed the vent brackets the other night and they were not a
problem to set if you dimple the skin first. I bolted the nozzle to the
instrument panel and then matched drilled the 4 holes in the bracket. Then I
dimpled the bracket and installed with no problem.
One thing though, I still have the forward fuselage top skin off until I
finish all the wiring and plumbing behind the firewall.
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288
Conroe Tx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Cutting the Canopy |
I did the "dirty deed" Tuesday night. I found out on thing that may be of
interest. The cutting disks provided by Vans worked somewhat. I then got out
my Dremel tool and used the cutting disks with it and had much more control
and a lot faster cut.
Anyone else have any input on this?
I now have a two piece canopy but have not started trimming to fit yet due
to the cold weather in Texas right now.
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288
Conroe TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
I just received my ELT transmitter last night and have a question regarding
the antenna mount. I have seen several installations where the antenna is
mounted on the last full bulkhead in the tail of the aircraft and run back
by the vertical stab. That way it is under the empanage faring.
Any comments?
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288
Conroe TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
ever thought about putting it in the wing tip?..or even in the plastic tail
fairings?..have seen a couple of these done..jolly in aurora, or.
PERRYMAN Larry wrote:
>
> I just received my ELT transmitter last night and have a question regarding
> the antenna mount. I have seen several installations where the antenna is
> mounted on the last full bulkhead in the tail of the aircraft and run back
> by the vertical stab. That way it is under the empanage faring.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Regards
> Larry Perryman
> 90288
> Conroe TX.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting the Canopy |
I did the same thing. The Dremel tool with the thin (approx 1/16"
fibreglass reinforced discs) cutoff discs was probably 8 to 10 times faster.
Also, my air compressor ran almost continuously with the die grinder and
large, thick discs.
Dick Jones 90062 Granbury, Tx.
----- Original Message -----
From: "PERRYMAN Larry" <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Cutting the Canopy
>
> I did the "dirty deed" Tuesday night. I found out on thing that may be of
> interest. The cutting disks provided by Vans worked somewhat. I then got
out
> my Dremel tool and used the cutting disks with it and had much more
control
> and a lot faster cut.
>
> Anyone else have any input on this?
>
> I now have a two piece canopy but have not started trimming to fit yet due
> to the cold weather in Texas right now.
>
> Regards
> Larry Perryman
> 90288
> Conroe TX.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Finishing Kit Details |
Well, it's getting about time to order the Finishing Kit (10 week delivery),
but there are a few things that have to be settled first.
At this time, I am pretty sure I want to go with the "standard" engine (i.e.
O-320 160 HP) along with Fuel Injection, and Fixed Pitch Metal Propeller.
The problem is what "options" to specify on my order.
Does anyone have sources of information that might explain the Engine Mount,
the Fuel Injector, and Filtered Airbox I should specify?
Dave
Fuselage
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Details |
I would contact Vans and talk to them.
You will probably want the O360 Cowl (if you want the lower air scoop for
the filtered air box), Dynafocal 2 mount and their filtered air box
Otherwise it would be the IO360 cowl that does not have the lower air scoop
and duct air to the filter box.
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288
Conroe, TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tobin and Micki <n715tm(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Need help with forgotton rivets |
I just finished my HS last night and when I removed it
from the jig I noticed I forgot to drive the two rivet
holes covered by the jig. All the end ribs are in so
there is no way I can reach my hand in to buck them. I
would like to use flush rivets if possible but if I
have to use pop rivets at least they will be on the
bottom.
Thanks
Tobin
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cloudchaser" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 01/03/02 |
Well, it's getting about time to order the Finishing Kit (10 week
delivery),
but there are a few things that have to be settled first.
At this time, I am pretty sure I want to go with the "standard" engine
(i.e.
O-320 160 HP) along with Fuel Injection, and Fixed Pitch Metal
Propeller.
The problem is what "options" to specify on my order.
Does anyone have sources of information that might explain the Engine
Mount,
the Fuel Injector, and Filtered Airbox I should specify?
Dave
Fuselage
90347
Dave,
On the engine mount, the consideration is whether you have the dynafocal
1, dynafocal 2, or conical mounts on your engine. Dynafocal 1 is
probably the most common. I believe the 0-320 dash A's and D's are
conical and the dash B's and E's are dynafocal. There is a section #11
in the -9A Finish Kit manual on engine and propellor selection that
describes all the myriad of Lycoming type numbers and what they mean.
(One reason to get the preview plans set.) If you want me to look up
some numbers for you, just email me.
Thanks to the rest of you guys for the ideas on Dremel tools and ELT
antennas. I would rather own a Dremel than an air cutoff tool or die
grinder anyway.
Gary with 2/3 of a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cloudchaser" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with forgotton rivets |
Tobin......Use the MK 319-BS pop rivets. They fit the dimple for the AN
426-3's well. You may need to drill the hole out slightly to 7/64.
Don't worry, you'll have other pop rivets in the tail, and they look
fine. I did fill the center hole in them with a little micro, but I
didn't try to fill the heads completely
________________________________________________________________________________
>Tobin......Use the MK 319-BS pop rivets. They fit the dimple for the AN
426-3's well. You may need to drill the hole out slightly to 7/64.>
I agree- put in a couple of pops nd move on. This is minor (especially on the
bottom)
Ed Winne
RV9A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
Well, here is one to watch out for. I just made the conical bends in
the side skins that transition past the corner ribs and into bulhead
F-706. It went great, and the first one fit nice on the first try. So
did the second one. Then I noticed a crack from the corner notch at the
front of the bend on the left one. The right one was fine. I had not
cut the 1 1/2 inch step holes yet, nor did I bend it back and forth
making adjustments.
I had forgotten to deburr that corner notch before bending either side.
One made it fine, one cracked 5/16 of an inch. This is a tough place to
put a patch, because everything comes together there......the corner of
the bend, the corner rib, the bulkead, and the step plate.
Gotta make everything smooth and rounded (I always do, execpt this
time!) before making tight bends.
Gary, displeased in Montana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
Gary,
Just stop drill,smooth the crack an fill. and move on Good luck.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary & Sandi
Subject: RV9-List: Conical bends
Well, here is one to watch out for. I just made the conical bends in
the side skins that transition past the corner ribs and into bulhead
F-706. It went great, and the first one fit nice on the first try. So
did the second one. Then I noticed a crack from the corner notch at the
front of the bend on the left one. The right one was fine. I had not
cut the 1 1/2 inch step holes yet, nor did I bend it back and forth
making adjustments.
I had forgotten to deburr that corner notch before bending either side.
One made it fine, one cracked 5/16 of an inch. This is a tough place to
put a patch, because everything comes together there......the corner of
the bend, the corner rib, the bulkead, and the step plate.
Gotta make everything smooth and rounded (I always do, execpt this
time!) before making tight bends.
Gary, displeased in Montana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Conical bends |
Jerry - what sort of filler for this sort of damage do you advise? Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Conical bends
>
> Gary,
> Just stop drill,smooth the crack an fill. and move on Good luck.
> Jerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary & Sandi
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Conical bends
>
>
>
> Well, here is one to watch out for. I just made the conical bends in
> the side skins that transition past the corner ribs and into bulhead
> F-706. It went great, and the first one fit nice on the first try. So
> did the second one. Then I noticed a crack from the corner notch at the
> front of the bend on the left one. The right one was fine. I had not
> cut the 1 1/2 inch step holes yet, nor did I bend it back and forth
> making adjustments.
>
> I had forgotten to deburr that corner notch before bending either side.
> One made it fine, one cracked 5/16 of an inch. This is a tough place to
> put a patch, because everything comes together there......the corner of
> the bend, the corner rib, the bulkead, and the step plate.
>
> Gotta make everything smooth and rounded (I always do, execpt this
> time!) before making tight bends.
>
> Gary, displeased in Montana
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Alex Peterson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Alex Peterson
Subject: VM11120A Vacuum switch
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/alexpeterson@usjet.net.01.06.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
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Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
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--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
Drill a 3/32 hole at the end of the crack to prevent it from further spread.
I use Super- Fil epoxy filler. I am not an engineer, but I did stay at a
Holiday INN LAST NIGHT. HA!
When you fit your F7106 top skin it helps to use an ice pick progressively
in the holes as you cleco it in place. I found it to be a very tight fit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Sampson
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Conical bends
Jerry - what sort of filler for this sort of damage do you advise? Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Conical bends
>
> Gary,
> Just stop drill,smooth the crack an fill. and move on Good luck.
> Jerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary & Sandi
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Conical bends
>
>
> Well, here is one to watch out for. I just made the conical bends in
> the side skins that transition past the corner ribs and into bulhead
> F-706. It went great, and the first one fit nice on the first try. So
> did the second one. Then I noticed a crack from the corner notch at the
> front of the bend on the left one. The right one was fine. I had not
> cut the 1 1/2 inch step holes yet, nor did I bend it back and forth
> making adjustments.
>
> I had forgotten to deburr that corner notch before bending either side.
> One made it fine, one cracked 5/16 of an inch. This is a tough place to
> put a patch, because everything comes together there......the corner of
> the bend, the corner rib, the bulkead, and the step plate.
>
> Gotta make everything smooth and rounded (I always do, execpt this
> time!) before making tight bends.
>
> Gary, displeased in Montana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward bottom skin attachment |
I went the "Dimple the Skins and C'sink the Spar and Stiffeners" route on
the Forward Bottom Fuselage Skin without any problems. Everything came out
nice an smooth and tight.
If I had it to do over again, I would probably just c'sink the Forward
Bottom Skin (Dimpling the Side Skins), and be done with it, taking great
care to guard against tool chatter with a "backing plate".
I think the rivets sit a little lower with dimpling than a "finely
controlled c'sink", resulting in an even smoother surface.
Dave
Fuselage
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Forward bottom skin attachment
>
> Regarding the earlier topic of attaching the forward bottom fuselage skin;
> I just finished up. I chose to countersink all holes in the F-972
forward
> bottom skin. Nothing was done to the forward two rows of rivets of the
> F-976 bottom center skin or the matching rows of the F-904 spars (other
> than making the outer five double-flush countersinks done with a long
drill
> bit).
>
> I had to be extra careful setting the countersink depth, but it came out
> great! I also back-riveted all four floor stiffeners to the F-972 before
> attaching it to the fuselage. This saved a lot of time and effort. No
> countersinking required in the stiffeners and easy to get at for riveting.
>
> I also discovered that I could place my back-riveting steel on top of a
> sawhorse and drive the rows of rivets along the F-904 spars without
> any assistance (other than a barley water to celebrate).
>
> Gary
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cleveland Tool Co |
I am just getting ready to start wings. Item #1. Countersink spar flange to
fit the .032 dimpled for a # 8 screw. Working with scrap stock I could not
get the dimpled .032 to fit down into countersunk stock I was practising on.
I called Cleveland where I bought my tool kit aand after a little discussion
they pointed out I was trying to countersink with 3/8" diam countersink and
that I would do better with a 1/2 " one. Further they said that the 1/2 "
was now included in their kits and they shipped one to me at no charge. I
have had other times to chat with these folks and each time they are
helpfull, courteous, professional and a joy to do business with. Just
thought I would pass this on.
Dennis Thomas
9-A, wings,finally
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Tool Co |
...nice to hear you are happy with your tool vendor, however, there is a
specific dimple-die and countersink that are designed for #8 screws.
You can probably get away with using some other size if you're careful, but
there is a right tool for these. Mine are clearly labed "#8". I got them from
www.browntool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Cleveland Tool Co |
Are the only Countersink screws needed #6 and # 8 Screws for the wing kit? I
have the #6 and # 8 dimple dies but need the countersink.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Newsted
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Cleveland Tool Co
...nice to hear you are happy with your tool vendor, however, there is a
specific dimple-die and countersink that are designed for #8 screws.
You can probably get away with using some other size if you're careful, but
there is a right tool for these. Mine are clearly labed "#8". I got them
from
www.browntool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Tool Co |
Hi jerry,
I think the only size used on the wing are #6 and #8. The machine
countersink in my kit is marked with a number ending in 19 which is the drill
size needed for a #8 screw.
You can get,help, info and the tools from Cleveland. 1-800-368-1822 0r
www.cleavelandtool.com. Good Luck.
dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Tool Co |
Your absolutly right. My dimple &dieare clearly marked as well. So is the
countersink. It is only that the countersink is 3/8" diam rather than 1/2".
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Laurel Mckone" <lmckone(at)xtalwind.net> |
| Subject: | Installing the main wheel fairings |
RV-9A builders, I have not been able to find the clearence for the
opening on the bottom, the distance between the tire and the fairing. I
wonder if 3/4" in front and 1" on the sides and back would be enough in
case of a flat tire. Any help would be appreciated. Mac McKone N120LM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing the main wheel fairings |
I am working ot that now, and I'm going to use about 1/2" all the way around
unless your question draws some responses that cause me to get the Dremel
after the fairings again. Good question!!!
Richard Jones 90062
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurel Mckone" <lmckone(at)xtalwind.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Installing the main wheel fairings
>
> RV-9A builders, I have not been able to find the clearence for the
> opening on the bottom, the distance between the tire and the fairing. I
> wonder if 3/4" in front and 1" on the sides and back would be enough in
> case of a flat tire. Any help would be appreciated. Mac McKone N120LM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Cloud" <ercouper(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Installing the main wheel fairings |
Remember to allow clearance for every landing when the tire spreads as
weight is added (the harder the landing....the more the spread)
Ralph
RV-9 newbie
(received tailkit 1/10/02)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Laurel Mckone
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 10:28 AM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Installing the main wheel fairings
>
>
> RV-9A builders, I have not been able to find the clearence for the
> opening on the bottom, the distance between the tire and the fairing. I
> wonder if 3/4" in front and 1" on the sides and back would be enough in
> case of a flat tire. Any help would be appreciated. Mac McKone N120LM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | QB kits - shipping damage |
My QB wings/fuse arrived yesterday in the UK damaged badly due to
shippers behaving like animals and poor packing. While VANS are getting
around to answering this question I would welcome the knowledge of the
group.
The wings may well be a write off.
In the FAQ's on VANS web site it says:
Can I order the QB wings and fuselage separately?
No. If you are ordering a QB kit, the wings and fuselage are a matched
set and must be manufactured, shipped and delivered as a set.
If this is the case then;
QUESTION: Can the centre section that the wings bolt to in the 'fuse'
easily be removed and replaced with a replacement 'matched' one? If not,
presumably new wings will need a new fuse?
I have had better days with this project.
Steve #90360
North Yorks., UK
Emp complete......building nothing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: QB kits - shipping damage |
Bummer. I trust you rejected the shipment? If it works like the US, it is
the shipping company that picks up the tab when they destroy merchandise.
I know the center spar and wing spars are a matched set. The bolt holes are so
snug that you have to encourage the bolts through the spars with a soft mallet.
Unless the machining is real accurate, I don't see where you will be able to
replace just the wings. Most likely, it will have to be shipped back to the
factory to be rebuilt, or entirely replaced (both wings & fuse). Don't settle
for any quick fixes.
Good luck! Let us know how it works out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: QB kits - shipping damage |
Bad deal Steve... It seems if they can ship the QB from the Philippines to
Van's, they could get it on to England.
Can you take any pictures and post them on the Matronics:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
It would be interesting to see just how bad things can get. When my
Fuselage Kit arrived here in the Midwest, the main crate was upside down,
even though there were about a dozen bright red arrows indicating it should
not be inverted. Fortunately, there was no damage even though the contents
shifted around a little.
Dave
Fuselage
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: QB kits - shipping damage
>
> My QB wings/fuse arrived yesterday in the UK damaged badly due to
> shippers behaving like animals and poor packing. While VANS are getting
> around to answering this question I would welcome the knowledge of the
> group.
>
> The wings may well be a write off.
>
> In the FAQ's on VANS web site it says:
> Can I order the QB wings and fuselage separately?
>
> No. If you are ordering a QB kit, the wings and fuselage are a matched
> set and must be manufactured, shipped and delivered as a set.
>
>
> If this is the case then;
> QUESTION: Can the centre section that the wings bolt to in the 'fuse'
> easily be removed and replaced with a replacement 'matched' one? If not,
> presumably new wings will need a new fuse?
>
> I have had better days with this project.
> Steve #90360
> North Yorks., UK
>
> Emp complete......building nothing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: QB kits - shipping damage |
Hi Guys,
I'm currently on wings and am thinking of a quick build for the fuselage.
The more I hear the more I think I will just go to the factory, rent a U-Haul
Tuck and bring it home myself.
Dennis Thomas
#90164
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: QB kits - shipping damage |
Dennis, I picked up my kit at Vans and drive it 600 miles home. Of course there
was no damage and the truck sat in front of my house until I could get a friend
over to help unload it. Unloading was trivial for two people. Strongly recommend
Penske over U-Haul as their equipment is far better. Normally, they are more
expensive but they will match your U-Haul quote. Either company charges a flat
rate for the rental with no extra mileage cost and they gave me four days for the
one-way trip.
Leland
QBer
DThomas773(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
> I'm currently on wings and am thinking of a quick build for the fuselage.
> The more I hear the more I think I will just go to the factory, rent a U-Haul
> Tuck and bring it home myself.
> Dennis Thomas
> #90164
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <tarpon22(at)excite.com> |
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text/html
--- StripMime Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FREIGHT DAMAGE WARNING SIGNALS |
| From: | "" <tarpon22(at)excite.com> |
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
text/html
--- StripMime Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
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resend the email using plaintext formatting
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Ship damage update RV9 |
The good news is VANS are adamant that despite what it says on the web
site they can make me new wings to fit the existing 'fuse'. Provided we
find no significant damage on that life is improving.
Thanks for all the kind words, Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ship damage update RV9 |
Great! That seems to go along with what I have heard about others who have
built wings and opted for a QB fuse (building the tanks must have wore them
down). I guess the spars are precise enough then to be interchangeable. I
would have guessed otherwise, but my kit was an early one and has a few extra
holes here and there. I think they hadn't refined it yet. Good luck!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Votuc" <guy(at)votuc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ship damage update RV9 |
I checked into this a few weeks ago and was told I could send back the
center section spars and associated pieces ( all of these were packaged in
seperate plastic with wing kit ). The center section spars are "matched" to
your main wing spars, so they have to go back for building into fuselage. At
the time ( before new year prices ) it was in the 8700.00 range for a QB
fuselage. Is it worth the 4K difference to you ?
Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Ship damage update RV9
>
> Great! That seems to go along with what I have heard about others who
have
> built wings and opted for a QB fuse (building the tanks must have wore
them
> down). I guess the spars are precise enough then to be interchangeable.
I
> would have guessed otherwise, but my kit was an early one and has a few
extra
> holes here and there. I think they hadn't refined it yet. Good luck!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Vent line Run |
| From: | vcordero(at)juno.com |
Folks,
I am a QB RV9A builder and need to know why the fuel vent line made from quarter
inch tubing on Fuse Dwg 36 has such a long run.
It runs from the fuel tanks, then up the F904 bulkhead, then forward towards the
firewall, then down to the floor panel. Seems like a long run. Has anyone shortened
the run on the vent line from the F902 bulk head then forward straight
to the firewall, then down to the floor. Am I missing something in this design.
I haven't called Van's yet.
thanks,
Victor Cordero, Long Island, NY #90319
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Vent line Run |
Thatis a very good question. I wondered that also as I was Cursing all
those turns and twists. Finally got it to fit.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vcordero(at)juno.com
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel Vent line Run
Folks,
I am a QB RV9A builder and need to know why the fuel vent line made from
quarter inch tubing on Fuse Dwg 36 has such a long run.
It runs from the fuel tanks, then up the F904 bulkhead, then forward towards
the firewall, then down to the floor panel. Seems like a long run. Has
anyone shortened the run on the vent line from the F902 bulk head then
forward straight to the firewall, then down to the floor. Am I missing
something in this design. I haven't called Van's yet.
thanks,
Victor Cordero, Long Island, NY #90319
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
I assume you want a big high spot in the vent line to prevent fuel from
sloshing out the vent in turbulence, etc. with nearly full tanks. If it
were down hill all the way from the fuel tank to the outlet, all the
fuel which found its way into the vent line would spill overboard.
Gary 90263
Folks,
I am a QB RV9A builder and need to know why the fuel vent line made
from quarter inch tubing on Fuse Dwg 36 has such a long run.
It runs from the fuel tanks, then up the F904 bulkhead, then forward
towards the firewall, then down to the floor panel. Seems like a long
run. Has anyone shortened the run on the vent line from the F902 bulk
head then forward straight to the firewall, then down to the floor. Am I
missing something in this design. I haven't called Van's yet.
thanks,
Victor Cordero, Long Island, NY #90319
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ship damage update RV9 |
Steve,
Would you need to send the fuselage back to them? Or not?
Gary 90263
The good news is VANS are adamant that despite what it says on the web
site they can make me new wings to fit the existing 'fuse'. Provided
we
find no significant damage on that life is improving.
Thanks for all the kind words, Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
Some questions come to mind:
Why bring vented fuel/vapor line into the cabin at all? Would it not be
more desirable to keep this in the wing?
Would it be successful if simply coiled several times and then drain/vent at
bottom of wing?
In either case, are coils, or "long runs", adequate to prevent siphoning?
Robert
Gary & Sandi wrote:
>
> I assume you want a big high spot in the vent line to prevent fuel from
> sloshing out the vent in turbulence, etc. with nearly full tanks. If it
> were down hill all the way from the fuel tank to the outlet, all the
> fuel which found its way into the vent line would spill overboard.
>
> Gary 90263
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I am a QB RV9A builder and need to know why the fuel vent line made
> from quarter inch tubing on Fuse Dwg 36 has such a long run.
> It runs from the fuel tanks, then up the F904 bulkhead, then forward
> towards the firewall, then down to the floor panel. Seems like a long
> run. Has anyone shortened the run on the vent line from the F902 bulk
> head then forward straight to the firewall, then down to the floor. Am I
> missing something in this design. I haven't called Van's yet.
>
> thanks,
> Victor Cordero, Long Island, NY #90319
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Vent line Run |
The lift or rise of the tube must be greater than the siphon effect of the
air going over the fuel vent at 180 MPH or so.
I could be wrong and a simple test with a coil of tubing and a compressor
will prove it, but I believe that the coil will not provide the same head
that the long loop through the cabin does.
With coils I believe that the maximum lift needed would be enough to get
over one coil only to create a siphon. I don't think the coils would be
additive. But I could be wrong here.
Regards
Larry Perryman
-----Original Message-----
From: Miller Robert [mailto:rmiller3(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fuel Vent line Run
Some questions come to mind:
Why bring vented fuel/vapor line into the cabin at all? Would it not be
more desirable to keep this in the wing?
Would it be successful if simply coiled several times and then drain/vent at
bottom of wing?
In either case, are coils, or "long runs", adequate to prevent siphoning?
Robert
Gary & Sandi wrote:
>
> I assume you want a big high spot in the vent line to prevent fuel from
> sloshing out the vent in turbulence, etc. with nearly full tanks. If it
> were down hill all the way from the fuel tank to the outlet, all the
> fuel which found its way into the vent line would spill overboard.
>
> Gary 90263
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I am a QB RV9A builder and need to know why the fuel vent line made
> from quarter inch tubing on Fuse Dwg 36 has such a long run.
> It runs from the fuel tanks, then up the F904 bulkhead, then forward
> towards the firewall, then down to the floor panel. Seems like a long
> run. Has anyone shortened the run on the vent line from the F902 bulk
> head then forward straight to the firewall, then down to the floor. Am I
> missing something in this design. I haven't called Van's yet.
>
> thanks,
> Victor Cordero, Long Island, NY #90319
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
Hi Larry,
I think what you are saying is right. I certainly would not make a
significant change from the plans without talking to Van's about it.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
I think another issue is the scenario of an off field landing resulting in
the a/c coming to rest inverted, where you would want the discharge end of
the tube to be higher than the fuel in the wings
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Ship damage update RV9 |
Gari - no thats the good news. They CAN make a set of QB wings without the
fuse or centre section. That's history. Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Ship damage update RV9
>
> Steve,
> Would you need to send the fuselage back to them? Or not?
> Gary 90263
>
>
>
>
> The good news is VANS are adamant that despite what it says on the web
> site they can make me new wings to fit the existing 'fuse'. Provided
> we
> find no significant damage on that life is improving.
>
> Thanks for all the kind words, Steve.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
Kevin, could you post some of the results of your flight testing? I am
intensely interested in learning how my bird might perform when I am all done
with it.
Leland
Ready to start the wing tips
Im7shannon(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I think another issue is the scenario of an off field landing resulting in
> the a/c coming to rest inverted, where you would want the discharge end of
> the tube to be higher than the fuel in the wings
> Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
Your "what if" and other statements about the vent line bother me. I will
have a safety article about changing the fuel system from the designers in a
month or two. ANY time you change it from the designed system you are now
the text pilot of a unique system which may or may not work. The are a lot
of parameters in fuel delivery systems. Take a look at
http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/recommended_practices.html
It is a lot more critical than one would imagine. Screw just one of the
parameters like the vent line and your engine will stop! One of the biggest
problems with the Van's series of airplanes is someone wanting to make it
"better" and then having an engine stoppage as a result. Are you a fuel
systems designer? If not, the best procedure is to stop worrying about
"what if" and use the proven designer's system.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leland & Anne" <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fuel Vent line Run
Kevin, could you post some of the results of your flight testing? I am
intensely interested in learning how my bird might perform when I am all
done
with it.
Leland
Ready to start the wing tips
Im7shannon(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I think another issue is the scenario of an off field landing resulting in
> the a/c coming to rest inverted, where you would want the discharge end of
> the tube to be higher than the fuel in the wings
> Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
That was my point, CY, stick with the designed method because there are
several reasons Van drew it that way which may not be obvious at first glance.
Kevin
>Your "what if" and other statements about the vent line bother me. I will
>have a safety article about changing the fuel system from the designers
>in a
>month or two. ANY time you change it from the designed system you are
>now
>the text pilot of a unique system which may or may not work. The are a
>lot
>of parameters in fuel delivery systems. Take a look at
>http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/recommended_practices.html
>
>It is a lot more critical than one would imagine. Screw just one of the
>parameters like the vent line and your engine will stop! One of the biggest
>problems with the Van's series of airplanes is someone wanting to make
>it
>"better" and then having an engine stoppage as a result. Are you a fuel
>systems designer? If not, the best procedure is to stop worrying about
>"what if" and use the proven designer's system.
>
>Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
Leland, here are some flight testing numbers which were not precisely
scientifically calculated in a hermetically sealed and absolutely sterile
sky, but from the seat of my own pants I felt they were pretty accurate.
Stalls: clean it stalls at a shade over 40 mph, with aileron authority right
up to the nose drop. Full flaps it does not want to stall, if you keep
holding the stick back it will eventually start to maple leaf and fall
pancake flat like a C-150. pretty fun but scares passengers.
Power off glide: I posted this once before, I was getting about 13.5:1 at 85
mph.
As far as the high end, I had the prop re-pitched just before It was
delivered to Ivo and didnt get to play around with it much, but full power
was about 195 at 2700 and cruse was 165 at 2450 and 8 gpm.
Rate of climb here at sea level I was getting anywhere from 1700-2500 fpm
depending on weight and density altitude with the old prop, which was a
little under pitched.
It handled very well in steep bank turns, chandelles, etc, I looped it a few
times in calm air too. But dont tell those other RV guys because the 9 is
supposed to be non aerobatic.
I'm building a GP-4 now, but there is no email discussion group to speak of,
also I am still interested in how you guys are progressing. I may build
another one.
Kevin
>Kevin, could you post some of the results of your flight testing? I am
>intensely interested in learning how my bird might perform when I am all
>done
>with it.
>Leland
>Ready to start the wing tips
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
Victor, The trick to the vent line is it's height above the fuel. If you drew
a line between the far end of the vent tube in the tank, and the high point of
the vent loop in the fuselage, you would discover angles slightly greater than
a
standard bank, climb, and descent. In normal flight attitudes this assures
that the tube is always above the level of the fuel. When you think about the
way the line is routed, it remains above the fuel level even when flying upside
down! Clever eh? Obviously forward movement and prop wash creates a
substantial positive pressure too, but it's always good to route a vent line so
as to avoid any attitude that would automatically create a siphon. The vent
air moves in two directions. Incoming air to replace fuel being burned and
outgoing air to accomodate fuel expansion when she's a bakin' in the sun on the
ramp. If you didn't have the tall loop, it would become a ramp pisser like
most Cessnas. Definitely don't lower or shorten the vent line, and make darn
sure you install the vent fittings with the angle cut facing forward, unless you
feel airplane motors are just too noisy!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent line Run |
Kevin,
Sorry but I may have missed your earlier posts. Are you using an O-320 with
an IVO prop?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fuel Vent line Run
>
> Leland, here are some flight testing numbers which were not precisely
> scientifically calculated in a hermetically sealed and absolutely sterile
> sky, but from the seat of my own pants I felt they were pretty accurate.
> Stalls: clean it stalls at a shade over 40 mph, with aileron authority
right
> up to the nose drop. Full flaps it does not want to stall, if you keep
> holding the stick back it will eventually start to maple leaf and fall
> pancake flat like a C-150. pretty fun but scares passengers.
> Power off glide: I posted this once before, I was getting about 13.5:1 at
85
> mph.
> As far as the high end, I had the prop re-pitched just before It was
> delivered to Ivo and didnt get to play around with it much, but full power
> was about 195 at 2700 and cruse was 165 at 2450 and 8 gpm.
> Rate of climb here at sea level I was getting anywhere from 1700-2500 fpm
> depending on weight and density altitude with the old prop, which was a
> little under pitched.
> It handled very well in steep bank turns, chandelles, etc, I looped it a
few
> times in calm air too. But dont tell those other RV guys because the 9 is
> supposed to be non aerobatic.
> I'm building a GP-4 now, but there is no email discussion group to speak
of,
> also I am still interested in how you guys are progressing. I may build
> another one.
> Kevin
>
> >Kevin, could you post some of the results of your flight testing? I am
> >intensely interested in learning how my bird might perform when I am all
> >done
> >with it.
> >Leland
> >Ready to start the wing tips
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | WAM diesel update//FYI |
>
> Following is our latest press release, which I hope is of interest to you.
>
> I will of keep you updated with future news unless you request otherwise.
>
>
> Sincerely..........MARK WILKSCH
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> Press Release
>
> Vans Aircraft assist Wilksch Airmotive
>
> with WAM-120 installation for RV-9
>
>
> Wilksch Airmotive is working on a conversion that will allow
> straight-forward installation of their WAM-120 engine
> in the popular new RV-9 aircraft. Vans Aircraft are assisting with
> technical data.
>
> With its advanced new wing section the RV-9 achieves an excellent
> balance of short field performance and efficient
> cruise. The availability of a turbine fuelled variant is expected to
> add to this
> appeal in European countries where Jet-A1 fuel is 3-4 times cheaper
> than Avgas.
>
> A UK manufactured firewall-forward kit will provide a new mount frame,
> cowling, silencer, intake and fuel and
> cooling systems parts. The WAM-120 powered RV-9 will be offered from
> the outset with a variable pitch propeller
> and light weight hydraulic CSU. Engine installation costs are expected
> to be no more than for the O-320 engine.
>
> Mark Wilksch, Managing Director of Wilksch Airmotive said:
> "We are very excited about working with Vans on the RV-9 conversion.
> The airframe and engine are ideally suited.
> Both WAM and Vans use CAD/CAM techniques and by working with accurate
> digital data we expect to offer a high
> quality installation kit."
>
> Ken Scott of Vans Aircraft said:
> "Vans are watching with great interest the steady progress being made
> by Wilksch Airmotive. Reduced operating
> costs for our European customers will be a real welcome development."
>
>
> 17January 2002
>
>
> Please see www.wilksch.com for further information
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Yes, 0-320 160 HP with Catto prop, Ivo is the guy that bought the plane
Kevin
>
>Kevin,
>Sorry but I may have missed your earlier posts. Are you using an O-320
>with
>an IVO prop?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
Kevin;
I assume that this is the same Ivo that builds IVO props? (how many mothers
would name their kid Ivo?) If this is the case then I would also assume that
he is going to put his own prop on it. I hope he publishes some performance
stats on this as I'm planning on using the IVO Magnum, Deep Pitch, In-flight
adjustable prop.
S. Todd Bartrim
13B RV-9
C-FSTB (reserved)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Im7shannon(at)aol.com
> Sent: January 19, 2002 10:00 AM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: performance
>
>
> Yes, 0-320 160 HP with Catto prop, Ivo is the guy that bought the plane
> Kevin
>
> >
> >Kevin,
> >Sorry but I may have missed your earlier posts. Are you using an O-320
> >with
> >an IVO prop?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
No, he is a professor of finance at Yale, at least if he builds props too he
never mentioned this to me. I also am planning on using an Ivo prop and
Jabiru 8-cyl on my current project. The supermarine spitfire has been flying
with this engine, last I heard they were in the second 50 hour block of
testing and are pleased with the results.
Kevin Shannon
>
>Kevin;
> I assume that this is the same Ivo that builds IVO props? (how
>many mothers
>would name their kid Ivo?) If this is the case then I would also assume
>that
>he is going to put his own prop on it. I hope he publishes some performance
>stats on this as I'm planning on using the IVO Magnum, Deep Pitch, In-flight
>adjustable prop.
>S. Todd Bartrim
>13B RV-9
>C-FSTB (reserved)
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> Im7shannon(at)aol.com
>> Sent: January 19, 2002 10:00 AM
>> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV9-List: performance
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, 0-320 160 HP with Catto prop, Ivo is the guy that bought the plane
>> Kevin
>>
>> >
>> >Kevin,
>> >Sorry but I may have missed your earlier posts. Are you using an O-320
>> >with
>> >an IVO prop?
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Top fuselage skins |
In the fuselage (slider canopy) kit there are no instructions to rivet the
rear top skins, just fit & drill them. It also dosen't mention anything
about the F6111 L&R ribs. I thought this may be in the finish kit
instructions.
I now have the finish kit, and it assumes that these skins and ribs are
already installed. The F6111 ribs are too long to fit the prepunched holes
in the rear skin. I assume they must be trimmed. But how?
Anyone else run into this problem?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
F6111? I find no such animal. Give me a sheet number and better description
and I'll check it out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Top fuselage skins |
I ran into the same problem, just cut the F6111 supports and install, they
do not attach to the longeron or bulkhead. Rivet callout is on drawing 28.
They are also shown on the finish kit drawings. You have to slide them up
and down to get them to fit . I made a cardboard template to locate them
before cutting. Hope this helps.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dale Larsen
Subject: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
In the fuselage (slider canopy) kit there are no instructions to rivet the
rear top skins, just fit & drill them. It also dosen't mention anything
about the F6111 L&R ribs. I thought this may be in the finish kit
instructions.
I now have the finish kit, and it assumes that these skins and ribs are
already installed. The F6111 ribs are too long to fit the prepunched holes
in the rear skin. I assume they must be trimmed. But how?
Anyone else run into this problem?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
F6111L&R are shown in the Exploded View on Dwg 41. They are the Aft Skin
Reinforcing Ribs. It doesn't look like anything else is attached to them.
Dave
90347
Fuselage (Finishing Kit on Order)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
>
> F6111? I find no such animal. Give me a sheet number and better
description
> and I'll check it out.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
My plans end at sheet 40, and drawing 28 doesn't show any such ribs. This must
be a modification since my kit was produced #59. Does anyone have a scanner
or camera capable of capturing this little detail? If not, I think I'll give
Vans a shout.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Top fuselage skins |
If you look at drawing 42 on the preview plans it shows F6111. Drawing 28
shows a line of rivets on the front corners of F7112 aft top skin running
from the front lower tip back to the top. It is confusing at first. I had
to call vans to get it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Newsted
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
My plans end at sheet 40, and drawing 28 doesn't show any such ribs. This
must
be a modification since my kit was produced #59. Does anyone have a
scanner
or camera capable of capturing this little detail? If not, I think I'll
give
Vans a shout.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Top fuselage skins |
I just took a photo of mine I will try to attach it with this response.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Newsted
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
My plans end at sheet 40, and drawing 28 doesn't show any such ribs. This
must
be a modification since my kit was produced #59. Does anyone have a
scanner
or camera capable of capturing this little detail? If not, I think I'll
give
Vans a shout.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
Dave & Jerry,
Did you find anything in the instructions on how to install this part? Or
did you just 'wing' it?
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
>
> F6111L&R are shown in the Exploded View on Dwg 41. They are the Aft Skin
> Reinforcing Ribs. It doesn't look like anything else is attached to them.
>
> Dave
> 90347
> Fuselage (Finishing Kit on Order)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
>
>
> >
> > F6111? I find no such animal. Give me a sheet number and better
> description
> > and I'll check it out.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
Gary,
Dwg 41. You may have a tip up canopy. This part is for the slider.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
>
> F6111? I find no such animal. Give me a sheet number and better
description
> and I'll check it out.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
I haven't install this part yet, and I haven't found anything in the
instructions about it yet either.
It sounds like Jerry's method of making a cardboard template for trimming is
a good idea.
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Larsen" <slickrock@been-there.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
>
> Dave & Jerry,
>
> Did you find anything in the instructions on how to install this part? Or
> did you just 'wing' it?
>
> Dale
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
>
>
> >
> > F6111L&R are shown in the Exploded View on Dwg 41. They are the Aft
Skin
> > Reinforcing Ribs. It doesn't look like anything else is attached to
them.
> >
> > Dave
> > 90347
> > Fuselage (Finishing Kit on Order)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Top fuselage skins |
Here is how I installed them.
Draw a line down the side to be riveted (center line).
Twist the pieces about 15 - 30 degrees by hand. They will not fit straight.
The more twist you can get into it, the better it will lay down against the
bulkhead.
Test fit and trim to fit. I had to cut the top end to about a 30 degree
angle before it would fit and have the line show through all the holes.
Don't remember about the bottom.
Even though it looks like it will rivet in with the bulkhead line of rivets,
it will not.
Once you have the center line showing in all the holes, drill it.
Regards
Larry Perryman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken" <ken(at)peggyking.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9-List Digest:Wing build -Heated Pitot tube |
I have just started the wing, and would like to know if anyone has
considered installing a heated pitot tube instead of the "pipe" that the
drawings suggest. If so, what pitot tube part #, and type/source is being
used, and how is it being installed. Also, what is the electrical
installation?
Ken Anderson
ken(at)peggyking.com
90376
wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV9-List Digest:Wing build -Heated Pitot tube |
Ken,
Check out this site: http://www.gretzaero.com/
I have one and it is easy to install. Instructions are included. I mounted
mine one "rib bay" outboard of the aileron bell crank to make the routing of
the tube easier, and to insure that it doesn't interfere with the controls.
Regards,
Cliff
>
>
> I have just started the wing, and would like to know if anyone has
> considered installing a heated pitot tube instead of the "pipe" that the
> drawings suggest. If so, what pitot tube part #, and type/source is being
> used, and how is it being installed. Also, what is the electrical
> installation?
>
> Ken Anderson
> ken(at)peggyking.com
> 90376
> wing kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV9-List Digest:Wing build -Heated Pitot tube |
on 1/21/02 8:59 AM, ken at ken(at)peggyking.com wrote:
>
>
> I have just started the wing, and would like to know if anyone has
> considered installing a heated pitot tube instead of the "pipe" that the
> drawings suggest. If so, what pitot tube part #, and type/source is being
> used, and how is it being installed. Also, what is the electrical
> installation?
>
Ken,
I bought a heated pitot tube and mount from Warren Gretz at
www.gretzaero.com I bought the PH502-12CR, which is heated pitot only.
Warren also has the AN5814 which is heated pitot and heated static.
Warren designed a pitot tube mount for RVs. It places the opening of the
tube about 3 inches ahead of the spar, just like the plans suggest. However,
the heated tube is only about 5 1/2 inches below the skin instead of 6 or 7
inches like Van's tube. I've talked to several other builders about this and
they think 5 1/2 inches should be long enough to keepthe opening of the tube
out of the boundary layer under the wing.
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A wings
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Any quickbuilders run into a problem trying to install the F-6118 Rudder
pedal brace when the QB fuse already has the firewall recess installed?
Steve Sampson
UK
#90360
fuse
PS The wings are a write off, but the fuse survived.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
> Dwg 41. You may have a tip up canopy. This part is for the slider.
No I definitely have the sliding canopy, but my plans stop at sheet 40. I did
rumage around the hangar today and found the F6111's. So that's what those
rascals are! I had set them aside during inventory because I found no mention
of them. This also explains the extra row of rivet holes in the skins. Duh...
I figured this would all come together when the finish kit arrives (next week).
The big centerfold (sheet 17) shows them too. So I guess Vans just shorted me
one drawing sheet,,, good thing it wasn't the landing gear page or I'd have a
sea-plane! ;
) I didn't buy the preview plans because they weren't available
until I was half way done with the wings. I'd still like to know whats on
sheet 41 if someone can scan their preview plan sheet 41 (its smaller) and email
it to me. Thanks!
Gary Newsted (fcs(at)jlc.net)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: QB RV9 question |
Steve,
I don't recall having any problem installing the rudder pedal brace. We
have a quick build with the firewall recess.
Paul
90355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcel Bourgon" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
Greetings from El Paso, Texas
We are working on a 7A and 9A in our shop. We also had a bad time with
these two stiffeners. I had a hard time thinking about cutting them since
so far we have not had to cut any pre formed pieces. After reading several
e-mail posting we decided this was the right approach. We played around a
bit and found that if you cut 2 1/2" of the top of this stiffeners it works
just fine. What we did was first cut the stiffener 2 1/2" from the top.
Then we use a pair of cutters and simply cut an angle on each small leg at
the top to miss the main rib that supports the top of skin. We then marked a
center line on stiffener were it hits the skin and drilled and clecod it to
skin. After we did this we both commented that this was really a pretty
simple task but sure would have been nice to see it in print or on the
plans. It would have eliminated the I don't know factor
Marcel in El Paso
Fuselage 7A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Top fuselage skins
>
>
> > Dwg 41. You may have a tip up canopy. This part is for the slider.
>
> No I definitely have the sliding canopy, but my plans stop at sheet 40. I
did
> rumage around the hangar today and found the F6111's. So that's what
those
> rascals are! I had set them aside during inventory because I found no
mention
> of them. This also explains the extra row of rivet holes in the skins.
Duh...
> I figured this would all come together when the finish kit arrives (next
week).
> The big centerfold (sheet 17) shows them too. So I guess Vans just
shorted me
> one drawing sheet,,, good thing it wasn't the landing gear page or I'd
have a
> sea-plane! ;
) I didn't buy the preview plans because they weren't
available
> until I was half way done with the wings. I'd still like to know whats
on
> sheet 41 if someone can scan their preview plan sheet 41 (its smaller) and
email
> it to me. Thanks!
>
> Gary Newsted (fcs(at)jlc.net)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
Gary, sheet 41 is part of the finish kit.
Gary
No I definitely have the sliding canopy, but my plans stop at sheet
40.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Wheatley <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com> |
Reference the discussion a few days back about the guy Ivo who bought Kevin
Shannon's RV-9A, here's his website with some neat photographs of the plane
and descriptions of his avionics.
Malcolm Wheatley
http://welch.som.yale.edu/n994ks/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: QB RV9 question |
Paul, so how did you do it? Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Paulbaird(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: QB RV9 question
>
> Steve,
> I don't recall having any problem installing the rudder pedal brace.
We
> have a quick build with the firewall recess.
> Paul
> 90355
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fuselage skins |
> Gary, sheet 41 is part of the finish kit.
> Gary
Now it makes sense, thanks Gary.
Gary
(I once worked with three other Garys, we called ourselves G1 through G4.
Nobody wanted to be G-Zero).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
I just finished predrilling the fuselage forward top skin and except for
several very obivious remaining parts yet to install I have come across
part number F-877APP. I cant locate where it's supposed to be used can
anyone help? It's rectangular in shape approx. 8x5x1.5 inches and very
heavy gage alum. Steve Dwyer 90219 Syracuse,
N.Y.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
It's the Battery Tray for a Firewall mounted battery.
DWG 31 shows how it is used.
Dave
90347
Fuselage (Finishing Kit and Subaru on Order)
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com>
Subject: RV9-List: spare part
>
> I just finished predrilling the fuselage forward top skin and except for
> several very obivious remaining parts yet to install I have come across
> part number F-877APP. I cant locate where it's supposed to be used can
> anyone help? It's rectangular in shape approx. 8x5x1.5 inches and very
> heavy gage alum. Steve Dwyer 90219 Syracuse,
> N.Y.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-9 kit for sale |
All:
I saw this on the rotary engine list and thought someone might be interested
in a partial RV-9 kit... probably equals a fast build or just a bit
less...for less $$$.
www.msnusers.com/RV9details
Doug
OK City, OK
Still fuel tanks (remodeling master bath...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: QB RV9 question |
Steve,
I am not sure what problem you are having specifically, but as I recall
we just followed the instructions and didn't have any real difficulty with
it. Did you call Vans? They have been helpful to me. Good luck.
Paul
90355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: QB RV9 question |
Steve,
I took another look at the bracket. I see that you need to notch out
the angle toward the firewall so it will fit up against the firewall recess.
Also we had to use blind rivets to attach it.
Paul
90355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: QB RV9 question |
Paul - thanks for your replies. No the frustration is you have to drill
through the recess structure as well. NOT what they intended, but having
installed the recess in the 'sandwich' there is no other practical way. I
have put shims in to pack the 'extra' space out and rivet through the lot.
VANS confirmed this as their solution.
Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Paulbaird(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: QB RV9 question
>
> Steve,
> I took another look at the bracket. I see that you need to notch out
> the angle toward the firewall so it will fit up against the firewall
recess.
> Also we had to use blind rivets to attach it.
> Paul
> 90355
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom" <treed(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical Question |
Hey group!
Am working on the wings, and am pondering the purchase of components
that will require a decision on whether to go 12V or 24V electrical
system. I understand that basically the 12v components are more standard
(widely available) and that 24v draws less current, but what else? What
experiences have you had with these decisions? Components include heated
pitot/static, landing lights kit, strobes (already have the Whelen four
flash system), S-Tec autopilot roll servo, etc.
Thoughts appreciated. I am awaiting a return call from the S-Tec
technician to help me decide on the roll servo. When I get the scoop,
I'll pass it on to you guys in case you want the same info.
Thanks in advance!
Tom Reed
N91TR
513-459-0440
emp done, wings in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paulbaird(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: QB RV9 question |
Steve,
We put a piece of steel next to the recess while drilling so the drill
wouldn't touch it. Sounds like your way will work as well.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Question |
12 volt fer sure! I can't think of any good reason to go 24 volt. Unless
your rich uncle just gave you a starter, battery, alternator, fuel pump,
instruments, lights, and stack that are all 24V.
12 volt is more common, since it is used in automotive applications. 12V
stuff is easier to get and generally cheaper. It is true 24 volt draws less
current, but that only equates to an insignificant savings in wire size.
Dale
90075
N61DX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" <treed(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Electrical Question
>
> Hey group!
> Am working on the wings, and am pondering the purchase of components
> that will require a decision on whether to go 12V or 24V electrical
> system. I understand that basically the 12v components are more standard
> (widely available) and that 24v draws less current, but what else? What
> experiences have you had with these decisions? Components include heated
> pitot/static, landing lights kit, strobes (already have the Whelen four
> flash system), S-Tec autopilot roll servo, etc.
>
> Thoughts appreciated. I am awaiting a return call from the S-Tec
> technician to help me decide on the roll servo. When I get the scoop,
> I'll pass it on to you guys in case you want the same info.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Tom Reed
> N91TR
> 513-459-0440
> emp done, wings in progress
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical Question |
I defiantly recommend 12 volt. All benefits of 24 voltage are by far
outweighed by increased cost & harder to get parts & accessories. Rumour has
it that the auto industry is contemplating using a 56? volt system due to
increased electrical load in modern autos, however until that day I'd
recommend that you stay with 12 volt.
Electrical questions should be sent to the AeroElectric List, not because
they belong there, but then you will usually be answered by Electric Bob
Nuckolls, who truly is a saint for donating his time & expertise to
answering questions. No question is too simple or complex for him. I highly
recommend his book AeroElectric Connection. If you are working on your
wings, it is the perfect time to order it as you will have time to read it
all and begin planning your electric system. The book covers everything and
helps you make the right choices in design for your needs.
S. Todd Bartrim
13B rotary powered
RV-9 (finish kit)
C-FSTB (reserved)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom
> Sent: January 28, 2002 10:16 AM
> To: RV9 List
> Subject: RV9-List: Electrical Question
>
>
> Hey group!
> Am working on the wings, and am pondering the purchase of components
> that will require a decision on whether to go 12V or 24V electrical
> system. I understand that basically the 12v components are more standard
> (widely available) and that 24v draws less current, but what else? What
> experiences have you had with these decisions? Components include heated
> pitot/static, landing lights kit, strobes (already have the Whelen four
> flash system), S-Tec autopilot roll servo, etc.
>
> Thoughts appreciated. I am awaiting a return call from the S-Tec
> technician to help me decide on the roll servo. When I get the scoop,
> I'll pass it on to you guys in case you want the same info.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Tom Reed
> N91TR
> 513-459-0440
> emp done, wings in progress
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil Henderson" <Neil.Mo51(at)btopenworld.com> |
From: Neil Henderson Neil.mo51(at)btopenwopld.com
Subject: RV9-List: Hold down ring'
New Lister. I'm building an RV9. First wing almost complete. I've found
the pre punched hole for the tie down is out of alignment, about
0.125ins. Is this a known problem? if not new builders should check
position before opening up the holes in there skins.
Neil (Based in the UK close to Aylesbury
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
Mine were off about 1/16, but I didn't enlarge the holes until well down the
road so it wasn't a problem. Are you sure you mounted the tiedown extrusion in
the right place? Typically Vans is dead-on with the punching. Well, consider
any work you need to do to clean things up as a "reinforcement" rather than a
"patch". I made short spacers out of round stock so the tiedown rings mounted
flush with the wing skin. If you did the same, you could always put a slightly
oversized washer under the tiedown ring to make up for the misaligned skin hole.
Just an idea.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
on 1/29/02 5:58 AM, Gary Newsted at fcs(at)jlc.net wrote:
>
> Mine were off about 1/16, but I didn't enlarge the holes until well down the
> road so it wasn't a problem. Are you sure you mounted the tiedown extrusion
> in
> the right place? Typically Vans is dead-on with the punching. Well,
> consider
> any work you need to do to clean things up as a "reinforcement" rather than a
> "patch". I made short spacers out of round stock so the tiedown rings mounted
> flush with the wing skin. If you did the same, you could always put a
> slightly
> oversized washer under the tiedown ring to make up for the misaligned skin
> hole.
> Just an idea.
>
> Gary
>
Gary,
My tie-down rings were off, too. I ended up with an ovalized hole.
Do you have a picture of your spacers? How thick are they? Where do you get
round stock? What is the diameter? I assume they are mounted on the outside
of the skin? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Streit(at)FPL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
01/29/2002 01:02:34 PM
The holes in my skins were off about 1/16" also. Rather than try to ofset
the hole I made a shim out of .063 and cut it out the same size as W-933,
the tie down bar. The hole in the skin now lines up exactly with the
threaded hole in the tie down bar.
Jim Streit
RV90073 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
Mark, The spacers were made out of a section of 5/8" round aluminum bar stock
(I had it laying around). I drilled a 3/8" hole in it and opened the hole in
the skin to 5/8". Then it was just a matter of shaving it to the same height as
the skin (roughly 1/4" thick). I dabbed a little pro-seal around it before
tightening the tiedown ring. Looks great, lasts a long time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
Jim, could you clarify what you did? How does a shim center something
that was not concentric?
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
Jim_Streit(at)FPL.COM wrote:
>
>
> The holes in my skins were off about 1/16" also. Rather than try to ofset
> the hole I made a shim out of .063 and cut it out the same size as W-933,
> the tie down bar. The hole in the skin now lines up exactly with the
> threaded hole in the tie down bar.
>
> Jim Streit
> RV90073 wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
on 1/29/02 6:12 PM, Gary Newsted at fcs(at)jlc.net wrote:
>
> Mark, The spacers were made out of a section of 5/8" round aluminum bar stock
> (I had it laying around). I drilled a 3/8" hole in it and opened the hole in
> the skin to 5/8". Then it was just a matter of shaving it to the same height
> as
> the skin (roughly 1/4" thick). I dabbed a little pro-seal around it before
> tightening the tiedown ring. Looks great, lasts a long time.
>
>
Gary,
Thanks for the info. What happens if you remove the tie-down ring? Does the
spacer go with it or does it stay attached to the skin? The reason I ask is
that several local RV pilots usually fly without the tie-down rings in
place. They say the tie-down ring affects the accuracy of the airspeed
indicator.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert scott" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
Well made my first mistake the other night. It was about 2:00 AM and I
guess I was getting a little tired. I countersunk the right HS Spar instead
of the front doubler in three places. I saw the mistake as soon as I
finished the last csk. I have come up with a repair that I think will work
just fine. However, I would like some opinions. I drilled out the shank of
the correct size flush head rivet and placed the head in the countersunk
hole. This way the doubler will sandwich it and when installing the
required rivet it will fit into the countersunk doubler and go through the
rivet head and spar. I will post some photos tomorrow on my site in the
"NEW" MRB area. All thoughts are welcome. I will proablly give Van's a call
also. I will post their response. Am I the first to make this mistake?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
My Tie down rings lined up perfectly. Why the ProSeal - you don't want
the tie downs to be permanent.
As a matter of fact, there is a place in the luggage compartment to
thread them into when not in use.
John Oliveira
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_Streit(at)FPL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
01/30/2002 06:36:55 AM
Barry, With the spar in the "H" frame jig with the front of the spar
facing "up" , the W-933 clecoed to the spar, and the leading edge skin
clecoed onto the spar, the hole that was prepunched in the skin was 1/16"
above (higher) than the threaded hole in the W-933 . Not wanting to
enlarge(oversize) the hole greater than 3/8" or try to "move or elongate"
the hole while drilling it out to 3/8" for the tie down ring, I decided to
add a .063 (1/16") shim to move the W-933 "up" toward the leading edge of
the wing to center it on the hole in the skin. The shim was 7-5/16" long
and the same width as the W-933 and installed between the front of the spar
and the W-933. (Remember, this will require the 8 AN3-xx bolts to be
longer by 1/16")
When the W-933 is installed on to the spar per the drawings the bottom of
W-933 (threaded end) is about 1/4" from the inside bottom leading edge
skin. I was concerned that when screwing in the tie down ring it would
compress (bend or dent) the leading edge skin down to the W-933. To take
care of that problem, I enlarged the hole in the skin out to 1/2" and made
a spacer out of 3/8" I.D. aluminum tubing that was about 1/4" long and
slipped (pro-sealed) it over the threaded end of the tie down ring. By
carefully "adjusting" the length of the spacer, I was able to get the tie
down ring to align with the slip stream when screwed all the way into the
W-933.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Rankin <rankinp(at)avsales.com> |
Robert,
Using the head of a rivet as a countersunk repair washer is fine.
There are MS washer specifically for this purpose.
Using countersunk washers is a standard practice in commercial aircraft
repair.
I would suggest that you bond the repair washers in place with a little
sealer.
Phil Rankin
-I would like some opinions. I drilled out the shank of
-the correct size flush head rivet and placed the head in the countersunk
-hole. This way the doubler will sandwich it and when installing the
-required rivet it will fit into the countersunk doubler and go through the
-rivet head and spar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil Henderson" <Neil.Mo51(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Miss Alligned Hole for hold down ring. |
From: Neil Henderson Neil.mo51(at)btopenwopld.com
Subject: RV9-List: Hold down ring'
Garry
Thanks for your input. The extrusion is in the correct place. It didn't
feel it necessary to check the position of the hole in the skin, I just
opened it up. On fitting the leading edge was surprised to find the
holes didn't line up. Up to this point I've been staggered at the
accuracy of the pre punched kit from Van's. The wing skins are
absolutely spot on, the joint between the two at the trailing edge meets
with zero gap, you might get a 0.001 thou feeler gauge in if you push
hard and the twist end to end less than 1/32.
Also thanks to the other lister's for their suggested fixes.
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Fuselage Ribs |
Neither the Stainless Steel Firewall Bulkhead (F601A-2) or the Center
Forward Fuselage Rib (F-7108A) have pre-punched holes to rivet the two
pieces together, yet the Iso-drawing in the upper right corner of DWG 24
shows holes in all three ribs. There are matching holes for the two outer
ribs in the Firewall.
It looks like I will need to simply lay out holes for the center rib,
matching the pattern established by the two outer ribs.
Anybody else run into this?
Dave Nicholson
90347
Fuselage (Finishing Kit and Subaru Engine on order)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
I suppose you could remove the tiedown ring. The spacer would be held in by the
pro-seal or you could just remove it too. If a tiedown ring is altering
someones airspeed indicator, then they didn't give much thought to the position
of their pitot tube.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs |
> Anybody else run into this?
Yep. Just cleco the top skin in place to get the position right and drill a
couple pilot holes, then remove the top skin and blast the remaining holes
through the firewall. I don't know why they omitted these holes. I've noticed
that Vans gives you an increasing number of little "projects" to deal with as
the kit progresses. Probably some FAA guy counting off the 51% made him do it.
While you're there, don't forget to add the #6 washer under the first rivet of
F-7108B to open up a gap for the windshield post. It's easy to miss that one,
but it's shown in the blueprints sheet 24.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: e: RV9-List: |
> Why the ProSeal?
We're talking about a drop of pro-seal not gobs of it. I did this just to
prevent the ring from backing out and dropping through somebodys living room
ceiling at 200 mph! Loctite would have done fine, but once you've done those
tanks you become adicted to proseal and look for secret places to use it. ;
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Seat Back mounts/ Electric Flaps |
RV-9'er's.....
Here are a couple of pitfalls to watch out for: On drawing 30, if you
mount the F-737E hinges to the F-742 seat bottoms in the locations
shown, the F-741A tunnel cover supports will interfere with mounting the
seat back in the forward-most position. You will need to move at least
the front hinges further outboard from the edge than the 7/8 inch shown.
Also, on my kit, the electric flap hardware and 8X10 drawing are for
converting RV-6 manual flaps to electric. Disregard that drawing and
the EF-603 and EF-604 brackets. Use the parts and methods shown on
drawing sheet 33.
I talked with Ken Krueger about these things, and he was quite
unconcerned, so don't expect any drawing revisions or clarifications.
Gary 90263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 and constant speed prop |
I think you would have a very marginal powerplant if you did that. I'm not
sure you can even get a drilled crank on an 0-235 but you could always run an
electric prop.
Hope you live somewhere flat, preferably near sea-level!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
Gary,
One thing to think about. I found on the RV-4 I was flying, that you
want the tiedown rings turned spanwise when you are tied down, instead
of in line with the slipstream. The ropes pull out to the sides, and if
the ring is crosswise, it slips around the ring to where it needs to be.
If the ring is chordwise, the rope tries to bend the ring and anchor to
the side. Tries very sucessfully, if your rings are not forged.
Lots less stress on things if the rings are in the "down and dirty"
position when tied. Maybe everyone doesn't live on the East Slopes of
the Rockies......but, still.......
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Fuselage Ribs |
I had the same problem. I did as you suggested, and after fitting the
forward section I clamped the angle to the firewall to hold it in position,
then drilled through the front using the holes on each side as a guide. It
worked out just fine.
Jerry Vanatta
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Nicholson
Subject: RV9-List: Forward Fuselage Ribs
Neither the Stainless Steel Firewall Bulkhead (F601A-2) or the Center
Forward Fuselage Rib (F-7108A) have pre-punched holes to rivet the two
pieces together, yet the Iso-drawing in the upper right corner of DWG 24
shows holes in all three ribs. There are matching holes for the two outer
ribs in the Firewall.
It looks like I will need to simply lay out holes for the center rib,
matching the pattern established by the two outer ribs.
Anybody else run into this?
Dave Nicholson
90347
Fuselage (Finishing Kit and Subaru Engine on order)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs |
Good catch on the #6 Washer for the F-7108B Angle Gary!
I started making the brackets for the Electric Flap Installation (DWG 33)
tonight and it sure looks like the Exploded Isometric View is a mirror image
of my plane.
The drawing indicates the Center Flap Bearing Block (F-680) is on the Left
Side of the cockpit, but with my Flap Actuator Weldment (WD-613-EF)
positioned with the "Cylinder Arm" sloping upward and the "Flap Arms"
horizontal it puts the Bearing Block on the Right Side of the cockpit.
I don't think it will make any difference, but it is a little strange.
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall |
How do you go about Dimpling the 18 holes for the AN426AD4-4 Forward
Fuselage Ribs to Firewall rivets?
(Needless to say, by the time you can locate and drill the center rib holes,
you can't get the Firewall into the Bench Top Dimpling Tool....)
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | wing flange nut plates |
Hey guys,
I have been fretting over the first step on wings. The plan says to rivet
the nut plates (for the tank skins attachment) for #8 screws to the spar
flange, dimple a scrap of .032 for a #8 screw and then countersink the flange
until scrap fits. Working with another piece of .062 aluminum angle I have
done some practise countersinks and found that I need to burrow in until the
bottom of the countersink has created a 5/16" whole before the dimpled .032
will sit flush. This seems an awfully big whole to make in the spar flange.
Am I over looking something obvious? Is this what others have done?
Appreciate your input.
Dennis Thomas
RV 9-A 90164
Wings, or will be soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing flange nut plates |
Check out the following URL:
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/csink.html
This is how I did the job.
Dave
90347
>
> Hey guys,
> I have been fretting over the first step on wings. The plan says to rivet
> the nut plates (for the tank skins attachment) for #8 screws to the spar
> flange, dimple a scrap of .032 for a #8 screw and then countersink the
flange
> until scrap fits. Working with another piece of .062 aluminum angle I
have
> done some practise countersinks and found that I need to burrow in until
the
> bottom of the countersink has created a 5/16" whole before the dimpled
.032
> will sit flush. This seems an awfully big whole to make in the spar
flange.
> Am I over looking something obvious? Is this what others have done?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing flange nut plates |
This is one of the few times I have to side with the manual.
I saw Chris's method on the web page below before I started
countersinking, and tried to do something similar. Due partly to a poor
job of making the pilot tool on my part, I didn't like the results.
Then I tried just using the #30 countersink with the nutplate threads to
guide the pilot. It was very easy, and came out very nice. The manual
says, "The pilot will center in the countersunk platenut well enough to
keep the hole round and concentric."
Sure enough, it did. Just rivet the platenuts in before you
countersink. Try a few this way. It WILL chatter slightly when you
start, but be steady, and as the cutter sinks in, and the pilot engages
further, it smooths out. Mine came out round and even.
There, I did it! I may never recommend following the manual again, but,
hey, it worked.
Gary 90263
P.S. I agree with DThomas.....it does look like a big hole in the spar
flange! But it needs to fit the dimple in the thick .032 for the #8
screw head.....
Check out the following URL:
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/csink.html
This is how I did the job.
Dave
90347
>
> Hey guys,
> I have been fretting over the first step on wings. The plan says to
rivet
> the nut plates (for the tank skins attachment) for #8 screws to the
spar
> flange, dimple a scrap of .032 for a #8 screw and then countersink
the
flange
> until scrap fits. Working with another piece of .062 aluminum angle
I
have
> done some practise countersinks and found that I need to burrow in
until
the
> bottom of the countersink has created a 5/16" whole before the
dimpled
.032
> will sit flush. This seems an awfully big whole to make in the spar
flange.
> Am I over looking something obvious? Is this what others have done?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall |
Good Question. I used my long arm dimpling tool. Just hold it into
position, and have someone whack it with the hammer.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Nicholson
Subject: RV9-List: Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall
How do you go about Dimpling the 18 holes for the AN426AD4-4 Forward
Fuselage Ribs to Firewall rivets?
(Needless to say, by the time you can locate and drill the center rib holes,
you can't get the Firewall into the Bench Top Dimpling Tool....)
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall |
I drilled the end of a 5/8" x 12" mild steel bar to accept a dimple die
(female in this case). I then cut the tip off a straight rivet set that
fits my rivet gun and drilled this set to accept a dimple die (male in this
case). To dimple the fire wall, you can then hold the 5/8 bar inside the
fuselage and uas the rivet gun on the front side with a fairly low pressure
setting and do a good job. This setup works well for many jobs, especially
when I forgot to dimple or decided to add something.
Dick Jones 90062
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall
>
> How do you go about Dimpling the 18 holes for the AN426AD4-4 Forward
> Fuselage Ribs to Firewall rivets?
>
> (Needless to say, by the time you can locate and drill the center rib
holes,
> you can't get the Firewall into the Bench Top Dimpling Tool....)
>
> Dave
> 90347
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall |
> How do you go about Dimpling the 18 holes for the AN426AD4-4 Forward
> Fuselage Ribs to Firewall rivets?
>
> (Needless to say, by the time you can locate and drill the center rib
holes,
> you can't get the Firewall into the Bench Top Dimpling Tool....)
Leave the bench top on the bench. Put the dimple dies in your squeezer.
Or, if your squeezer won't reach, adapt a rivet set to hold the male die,
and drill a bucking bar to hold the female die. You can dimple most
anywhere that way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
I have just started on the rudder pedals.
Once I put the third centre bearing in place I realised that there is a
very slight distortion in the tube (probably caused by the welding). You
can just see movement in the centre bearing bracket.
Did anyone else have this problem? I am tempted to just bend the tube
slightly until all is straight but would like others opinions first.
Steve
#90360
N Yorks., UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
We have talked lots about priming over the months.
QUESTION - what do people do about nutplates? And why are they that dark
grey/black colour. Is it a corrosion retardant? It seems they are the
weak point since they introduce another metal to set up an electrolitic
action.
Thoughts?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
on 1/31/02 8:42 AM, Steve Sampson at SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu wrote:
>
> We have talked lots about priming over the months.
>
> QUESTION - what do people do about nutplates? And why are they that dark
> grey/black colour. Is it a corrosion retardant? It seems they are the
> weak point since they introduce another metal to set up an electrolitic
> action.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Steve
>
Hi Steve,
I believe the dark color is a corrosion retardant, but I'm still worried
about corrosion happening between aluminum and steel. Therefore, I've been
priming my platenuts with Tempo zinc oxide. I've heard arguments for and
against priming platenuts, but I feel better having them primed.
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall |
Avery (and probably others) makes a set for your rivet gun that has a hole
in the end for one part of the dimple dies and they have a bucking bar made
to accept the other half. Turn the air pressure down and they very well.
BTW, I had my fuse painted the other day. Looks pretty good and it's now
upside down with the left wing and one wheel temporarily attached while I
make the gear leg fairing intersections. This looks interesting and it's my
first attempt at fiberglass. The wheel pants were not bad at all, they fit
very well with little clean-up required. This is beginning to look like it
might fly!
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
I've just finished the brake bar assembly. Those of you who have
finished doing this are aware that the top bracket to which the top arm
of the master cylinder attaches to are different for the fore and aft
rudder bar. When you drill the bottom hole for the brake pedal/master
cylinder, do not drill these in the same location. If you do, then the
pedals will not 'angle' the same. In other words one pedal will be
forward of the other by an inch or so.
This leads me to a question for those of you who have already completed
or are near completion of their RV9A. What is the best angle for the
brake pedal? One guy here (has built two RV6A's) says you want the
pedals to be inline (parallel) with the vertical rudder tubes on each
side, not inclined forward.
Seems to me you'd want the pedals tilted slightly forward to keep your
toes from accidentally applying the brakes as you push on the rudder
bar. But he says that won't happen as the balls of my feet will be on
the horizontal rudder bar and I'll have to raise my feet slightly to
push the brake pedal forward. Any thoughts?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
Chuck,
What I have found on my 9 is that the peddles need to be built per specs
from vans. If you want change the angle of the brake peddles, move your
mounting point toward or away from the firewall. If you want to move the
rudder peddles, make a shorter or longer link between the cable and the
peddles.
I went ahead and drilled a series of mounting holes for the blocks before I
put the top ribs in. That way I can change the position and angle with some
ease later on if I find I want a different combo.
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288 N194DL Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake Pedals |
Chuck....some thoughts: The rudder pedal bars are not parallel......
The front one angles aft, and the aft one forward, so they line up at
the bottom at neutral rudder. So you wouldn't want the brake pedals
lined up with those bars.
I angled my brake pedals forward some. Remember if you add floorboards
and/or floor insulation, your foot will be raised up. I am waiting to
decide where my floor will be, so I can put in spacer to raise the
rudder assembys if need be. I would like the rudder pedal to fall on
the ball of my foot.
Gary in Montana (working on seats)
...........This leads me to a question for those of you who have
already completed
or are near completion of their RV9A. What is the best angle for the
brake pedal? One guy here (has built two RV6A's) says you want the
pedals to be inline (parallel) with the vertical rudder tubes on each
side, not inclined forward.
Seems to me you'd want the pedals tilted slightly forward to keep your
toes from accidentally applying the brakes as you push on the rudder
bar. But he says that won't happen as the balls of my feet will be on
the horizontal rudder bar and I'll have to raise my feet slightly to
push the brake pedal forward. Any thoughts?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
Steve......the nutplates have a "passivated" coating on them which
prevents corrosion. I doubt you will ever see them corrode, have a
galvanic reaction with the aluminum, or hold paint very well.
Just install the litte buggers and go happily on your way.
Gary
We have talked lots about priming over the months.
QUESTION - what do people do about nutplates? And why are they that
dark
grey/black colour. Is it a corrosion retardant? It seems they are the
weak point since they introduce another metal to set up an
electrolitic
action.
Thoughts?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net> |
I have religiously primed all my nut plates. First slosh them around in
MEK or Acetone, the spray with acid etching automotive primer available
in spray cans.
I am doing all parts this way, and just do the nut plates at the same
time as the other parts in the assembly I am about to do.
No real hardship, every thing is greg. No worry about corrosion.
John Oliveira
N909RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall |
Dave,
In reading the responses to your question on what to use to make the
dimples in the firewall no one has mentioned using Avery's POP RIVET
DIMPLERS part nos. 1022 and 1024 shown on page 9 of the 2001 catalog. I
can't tell how handy these dimplers have become and give the same results as
the regular dies in the c-brace.
Steve Dwyer 90219 waiting on finish kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Nicholson <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Forward Fuselage Ribs to Firewall
>
> How do you go about Dimpling the 18 holes for the AN426AD4-4 Forward
> Fuselage Ribs to Firewall rivets?
>
> (Needless to say, by the time you can locate and drill the center rib
holes,
> you can't get the Firewall into the Bench Top Dimpling Tool....)
>
> Dave
> 90347
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake Pedals |
Chuck,
With respect to the angle of the rudder pedal assembly I initially tipped
the bottom of the pedals slightly aft, bolted in the entire assembly and
fabricated the rudder cable links to 3-1/4" between bolt hole centers. The
problem I ended up with was the shoulder on the returning cable would just
catch on the first bulkhead snap bushing giving a loud banging noise as I
applied full rudder.
I've ordered replacement cable link steel and will now probably position the
pedal assembly closer to vertical as Van shows on Dwg.37 left side view
lower center of the drawing. I expect everyones position will depend on
their height, I'm 6' 4" ......I guess thats why I'm building a 9, hope this
is of help.
Steve Dwyer 90219
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Brake Pedals
>
> I've just finished the brake bar assembly. Those of you who have
> finished doing this are aware that the top bracket to which the top arm
> of the master cylinder attaches to are different for the fore and aft
> rudder bar. When you drill the bottom hole for the brake pedal/master
> cylinder, do not drill these in the same location. If you do, then the
> pedals will not 'angle' the same. In other words one pedal will be
> forward of the other by an inch or so.
>
> This leads me to a question for those of you who have already completed
> or are near completion of their RV9A. What is the best angle for the
> brake pedal? One guy here (has built two RV6A's) says you want the
> pedals to be inline (parallel) with the vertical rudder tubes on each
> side, not inclined forward.
>
> Seems to me you'd want the pedals tilted slightly forward to keep your
> toes from accidentally applying the brakes as you push on the rudder
> bar. But he says that won't happen as the balls of my feet will be on
> the horizontal rudder bar and I'll have to raise my feet slightly to
> push the brake pedal forward. Any thoughts?
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | Installing Top Fuse. skins |
I'm at the point where the only task remaining to my fuselage kit is to
install the rear and forward top skins. My finish kit is due shortly and
reading further I see the next task once it arrives is to begin with the
sliding canopy frame. Vans photos show the skins fully riveted yet
nothing is said about the mulititude of wiring and plumbing associated
with the instrument panel. I've decided on an engine but I dont have it
yet so I'm a little unsure of what connections it will require back to
the panel, the same goes for the radio stack. Is anyone else at this
point or am I missing something? So far it's been smooth going but now
I'm getting concerned. Am I supposed to have the instrument panel fully
installed at this point, there's no way I'll ever have enough room to
install radio trays, instrument connections etc. from below???
Steve Dwyer 90219
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert scott" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
Steve,
At our company we work mainly with aerospace parts. Material like 15-5
Stainless Steel is passivated at the end of manufacturing to remove any
surface iron from the material or after shotpeening for cleaning prior to
chrome plate. It does provide added corrosion protection for the steel but
is not really a coating. The black coating on the nut plate is proabably
Dry film Lube. This helps prevent gaulling when installing the screw.
This exerpt is from Boeing's DPS 4.025 Dissimilar materials.
1.3 Definition - Galvanic or dissimilar metal corrosion occurs when
dissimilar metals
(metals having different electrochemical potentials) are coupled together in
the
presence of an electrically conducting solution. An electrochemical
potential difference
is created and current flows between the dissimilar metals, as it does in a
dry battery.
The part that corrodes is known as the anode; the other electrode of the
galvanic cell is
the cathode. Metal coupling with greatest potential difference will corrode
at a faster
rate than a metal coupling with less potential difference. For example,
magnesium in
contact with copper will corrode faster than magnesium in contact with zinc,
since the
potential difference between magnesium and copper is greater. The corrosion
rate
increases in direct proportion to the current density (amperes per square
inch). The
corrosion rate is also increased when the surface area of the cathode is
larger than the
anode. (Aluminum rivets should not be used in stainless steel).
4.3 Fasteners/Attachment Parts - These are defined as bolts (including
lockbolts,
hi-loks, and taperlocks), screws, studs, nuts, nutplates, nut strips,
washers, pins,
threaded inserts, clips, rivets, etc., that require dissimilar protection
per Table 4.1. The
requirements of the following paragraphs shall be followed for dissimilar
materials
applications involving fasteners. Table 4.3 shall be consulted to determine
the
applicable paragraph for the fastener/joint combination involved. Additional
requirements are stated in the following paragraphs.
4.3.1 Sealant Requirements - Wet sealant installation of fasteners required
by the
drawing or another DPS shall meet the dissimilar material installation
requirements of
this DPS. DMS 2013 or DMS 2082 sealants shall be used per DPS 2.50 when the
area
temperature will be 250F, then DMS 1799 silicone sealant per DPS 2.50 or
heat resistant urethane primer
per DPS 4.50-168 shall be used for the installation.
4.3.4 Fasteners, Other Than Titanium, Not Installed in Magnesium - When
such
fasteners are similar to the materials being joined, and those materials are
similar to
each other, no additional protective film is required. When the materials
being joined
are dissimilar to each other, or when the fastener is dissimilar to one or
more of the
materials being joined, an organic coating, such as primer or sealant, shall
be applied
to the fasteners or to the hole or countersink. These requirements are
modified as
follows:
EXCEPTIONS: (1) Fasteners or parts in contact with liquid or gaseous
oxygen shall be installed using the protective materials
and procedures of paragraph 4.2.6.
(2) These requirements do not apply to guard pins and
removable bolts used to install pulleys in pulley bracket.
These items shall be installed per paragraph 4.3.2.2.
See paragraph 4.3.3 for additional exceptions.
4.3.4.1 Primer shall be applied when installing threaded inserts. The primer
may be
wet or dry at time of insert installation.
Stainless and 2024 Clad have a high disimilar rating.
Sorry it got kind of long. Just shedding some light on the subject.
Robert Scott
RV9A
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary & Sandi <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Nutplates
>
> Steve......the nutplates have a "passivated" coating on them which
> prevents corrosion. I doubt you will ever see them corrode, have a
> galvanic reaction with the aluminum, or hold paint very well.
>
> Just install the litte buggers and go happily on your way.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> We have talked lots about priming over the months.
>
> QUESTION - what do people do about nutplates? And why are they that
> dark
> grey/black colour. Is it a corrosion retardant? It seems they are the
> weak point since they introduce another metal to set up an
> electrolitic
> action.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling the Safety Wire Hole in the Flap Actuator Servo |
Does anyone have "words of wisdom" for how to drill the Safety Wire Hole in
the end of the Electric Flap Actuator (ES-85615-157) as shown in Detail E on
DWG 33?
Can this be done with "one operation at an angle", or would it be better to
make "two holes, one in the side wall and one in the base" and try to "fish
the safety wire through"?
In either case, there isn't much room on the base for the Jam-Nut and the
hole.
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Capacitive fuel senders |
I put the capacitive senders in my tank because I thought they would be
trouble free. I now find out that in order to use them, you must use the
Electronics International gauge. This guage is cool, but it's $345.
Does anyone know if you can use the EI capacitive to voltage converter ($45)
and the plain vanilla Van's fuel gauges?
Dale
90075
N61DX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitive fuel senders |
Dale, I found that a stick works pretty good and is alot cheaper. Just
kidding. The SW senders and vans gauge combo works very well and is very
accurate when you get down to that last 5 gallons left in the tank, where you
want to know exactly how much is left. The SW senders are pretty cheap,
probably cheaper than trying to convert.
Kevin
> I put the capacitive senders in my tank because I thought they would be
> trouble free. I now find out that in order to use them, you must use the
> Electronics International gauge. This guage is cool, but it's $345.
>
> Does anyone know if you can use the EI capacitive to voltage converter
($45)
> and the plain vanilla Van's fuel gauges?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
on 1/31/02 9:44 PM, Robert scott at rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com wrote:
>
>This exerpt is from Boeing's DPS 4.025 Dissimilar materials. . . . .
Hi Robert,
Interesting stuff! If I read it correctly, it sounds like Boeing recommends
we prime steel nutplates that are attached to aluminum.
>Aluminum rivets should not be used in stainless steel . . .
OK, what would Boeing do to attach a stainless steel firewall to aluminum?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Capacitive fuel senders |
I am even worse shape. I bought the Vision Micro fuel gage and capacitive
senders for about $350 and now find that to make them work I need the DPU
and other stuff to the tune of another $800 or so. I am going with the VANS
gages now since I already have the tank plates for them. At $100 for both
gages and senders total, nothing else makes sense.
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288 N194DL reserved.
-----Original Message-----
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com [mailto:Im7shannon(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Capacitive fuel senders
Dale, I found that a stick works pretty good and is alot cheaper. Just
kidding. The SW senders and vans gauge combo works very well and is very
accurate when you get down to that last 5 gallons left in the tank, where
you
want to know exactly how much is left. The SW senders are pretty cheap,
probably cheaper than trying to convert.
Kevin
> I put the capacitive senders in my tank because I thought they would be
> trouble free. I now find out that in order to use them, you must use the
> Electronics International gauge. This guage is cool, but it's $345.
>
> Does anyone know if you can use the EI capacitive to voltage converter
($45)
> and the plain vanilla Van's fuel gauges?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert scott <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
Hey Mark,
That's what it reads like to me. I know when we install steel bolts in
aluminum they are normally cadmium plated and per Boeings spec. Cadmium and
aluminum are not dissimilar. Maybe you could Cad plate the firewall or FR Prime
it./ top coat gray...?
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
>
> on 1/31/02 9:44 PM, Robert scott at rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com wrote:
>
> >
> >This exerpt is from Boeing's DPS 4.025 Dissimilar materials. . . . .
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Interesting stuff! If I read it correctly, it sounds like Boeing recommends
> we prime steel nutplates that are attached to aluminum.
>
> >Aluminum rivets should not be used in stainless steel . . .
>
> OK, what would Boeing do to attach a stainless steel firewall to aluminum?
>
> Mark Schrimmer
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitive fuel senders |
You cannot - that's why I bought the plane old float senders.
John 90054
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs |
I recently went through this and noted the powder coating was removed on
the "wrong side" of the weldment, for the center block. A call to Van's
and I was told that they had a batch (or was that a 'bunch') of
weldments go out like that. They added that it was ok to put the
bearing on then other side.
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
Dave Nicholson wrote:
>
>
> Good catch on the #6 Washer for the F-7108B Angle Gary!
>
> I started making the brackets for the Electric Flap Installation (DWG 33)
> tonight and it sure looks like the Exploded Isometric View is a mirror image
> of my plane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Hassel" <bob.hassel(at)directlink.net> |
Hi,
I'm a new or soon to be 9 builder. Has anyone tried adjustable rudder
pedals? My wife will be flying left seat as much as I and we have
considerable differences in height (among other things)!
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Back mounts/ Electric Flaps |
> On drawing 30, if you
> mount the F-737E hinges to the F-742 seat bottoms in the locations
> shown, the F-741A tunnel cover supports will interfere with mounting the
> seat back in the forward-most position. You will need to move at least
> the front hinges further outboard from the edge than the 7/8 inch shown.
If you check sheet 30 again, you'll find that the 7/8" is measured from the
center of a nutplate hole, not the edge of the floor panel. It worked fine for
me when measured this way.
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob,
I talked to Van's about this and they suggested making removable seat backs
of different thicknesses. I'm pretty sure that there's no way to adjust the
pedals separately in the stock design, so even if you could move them aft
for your wife, they'd probably get in your way.
I'd be interested to see if someone else comes up with a better solution for
this, but the seat back idea is simple and would be quick to switch from one
side to the other.
Brian
Hi,
I'm a new or soon to be 9 builder. Has anyone tried adjustable rudder
pedals? My wife will be flying left seat as much as I and we have
considerable differences in height (among other things)!
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing Top Fuse. skins |
> I'm getting concerned. Am I supposed to have the instrument panel fully
> installed at this point, there's no way I'll ever have enough room to
> install radio trays, instrument connections etc. from below???
>
> Steve Dwyer 90219
Steve, Hold off on riveting the forward top skin as long as you can. Yes you
are at that wonderful point where all the avionics needs to be dealt with or at
least seriously planned for. You'll find that most radios are too long to fit
between the panel and the F-7015 bulkheads, so a good deal of cutting and custom
bracketing needs to be done back there. Your static lines need to be installed
and the panel layout should be done. It's a real tight fit if you have more
than basic VFR in mind, so don't drill any panel holes until you are absolutely
certain of the placement. The tip-up canopy allows much better access to the
back of the panel than does the slider, but the slider offers slightly more
space since there are no hinges in the area. Your panel should be removable,
so pay attention to how the hoses and wire bundles will be routed. Vans offers
next to no advice on this important phase, so enlist some local help or farm it
out if you are sheepish and blessed with a deep funding pool. I am at the
exact same point you seem to be. There are plenty of things you can still work
on in the finishing kit that don't require the front top skin to be in place
yet, so if you are not ready to get on with instruments/avionics, work on
something else while you start planning.
Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling the Safety Wire Hole in the Flap Actuator Servo |
Dave, install the bearing and retaining nut. Then using the right size drill
bit for the safety wire, start drilling right next to a flat side of the nut in
parallel with the flap shaft. Once you have drilled about 1/16" deep, stop and
remove the bearing and retaining nut. Then continue drilling but angled outward
until the hole emerges. It should come out the side just above the groove
machined in the flap shaft. It does seem a bit spooky, but it works fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
One thing I haven't heard mentioned in this nut-plate thread yet, is that if you
are attaching the nut-plates to aluminum parts that have already been primed,
then there is no need to prime the plate nuts themselves. In general, you
should drill and dimple for the plate-nuts, prime the aluminum parts, then
install the plate nuts. If you are a real stickler, you can then shoot a
dusting of primer over the rivets and back sides of the plate nuts, but this is
not strictly necessary since there will already be a layer of primer between all
disimilar parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals |
Adjustable rudder pedals present some interesting problems. While it could be
done using some jack-screws the rudder cable lengths would have to be
compensated too. This could be done with pulleys and/or springs, but any way
you look at it, this would require some significant mechanism and weight.
I think you would do better to consider making the seat back adjustment easier
and leave the rudder pedals as designed. The seat backs are held in position
with piano hinges. You have to tilt the backs forward and pull the hinge wires
to move them to another position. This is not a big deal, but it's not what I
would call easy adjustment either. I would suggest that you install your
rudder pedals as designed. When you get to the point of having the seat backs
installed, get some foam to match what you will be using in your seats, and have
your wife sit in the plane to see how far the seat would have to be moved
forward to work with the rudder pedal position. If it's just a small amount,
and the stick is still in a comfortable position, then just add another hinge
strip to the floor or space the three hinge strips accordingly. If the stick
is not in a good position, then maybe you can move the rudder pedals back to
suit her height, and reposition the seat hinges to suit your height.
If all else fails, you can revisit the idea of adjustable rudder pedals with
jack-screws, perhaps drilling several holes in the rudder cable attach plates
and using a clevis bolt with a latching pin (looks like a safety pin).
I was surprised to find that Vans didn't provide any pedal adjustment, but I can
see why they chose to keep it simple too.
Let us all know what you come up with.
Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals |
Van's makes a great adjustable rudder ped setup for the RV8...maybe you could adapt
this?...
Gary Newsted wrote:
>
> Adjustable rudder pedals present some interesting problems. While it could
be
> done using some jack-screws the rudder cable lengths would have to be
> compensated too. This could be done with pulleys and/or springs, but any way
> you look at it, this would require some significant mechanism and weight.
>
> I think you would do better to consider making the seat back adjustment easier
> and leave the rudder pedals as designed. The seat backs are held in position
> with piano hinges. You have to tilt the backs forward and pull the hinge wires
> to move them to another position. This is not a big deal, but it's not what
I
> would call easy adjustment either. I would suggest that you install your
> rudder pedals as designed. When you get to the point of having the seat backs
> installed, get some foam to match what you will be using in your seats, and have
> your wife sit in the plane to see how far the seat would have to be moved
> forward to work with the rudder pedal position. If it's just a small amount,
> and the stick is still in a comfortable position, then just add another hinge
> strip to the floor or space the three hinge strips accordingly. If the stick
> is not in a good position, then maybe you can move the rudder pedals back to
> suit her height, and reposition the seat hinges to suit your height.
>
> If all else fails, you can revisit the idea of adjustable rudder pedals with
> jack-screws, perhaps drilling several holes in the rudder cable attach plates
> and using a clevis bolt with a latching pin (looks like a safety pin).
>
> I was surprised to find that Vans didn't provide any pedal adjustment, but I
can
> see why they chose to keep it simple too.
>
> Let us all know what you come up with.
>
> Gary Newsted
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Divan" <mikedivan(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re Rudder Pedals |
There must be a way to have adjustable rudder pedals. The Katana's have
them. Pull a cable and slide them forward or back no problem.
Thanks.
Mike Divan
mdivan(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re Rudder Pedals |
so does my RV8A
Mike Divan wrote:
>
> There must be a way to have adjustable rudder pedals. The Katana's have
> them. Pull a cable and slide them forward or back no problem.
>
> Thanks.
> Mike Divan
> mdivan(at)msn.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert scott" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
| Subject: | Finally Building Something |
Hey Everyone,
Finally I'm Building Something. Alodined and FR Primed all the HS parts
today and after they dried, started riveting! It feels good to be putting
parts together. I was getting tired of all the deburring and preparation.
Anyway just had to share with those who can appreciate.
Robert Scott
RV9A
www.myrv9a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs |
DWG 24 does call for an AN960-6 washer to create a space between the Angle &
the Rib, but I can't find a #6 washer in my parts or in the Parts List.
Do you suppose a #8 will do the job OK?
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Forward Fuselage Ribs
>
> While you're there, don't forget to add the #6 washer under the first
rivet of
> F-7108B to open up a gap for the windshield post. It's easy to miss that
one,
> but it's shown in the blueprints sheet 24.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Riveting the Forward Side Sking |
Any reason not to rivet the Forward Side Skins on between the Aft Top Skin
and the Forward Top Skin?
I'm holding off on the top skins to improve access until I get more of the
"utilities" installed, but it does not look like anything is added in the
area between the two skins.
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert Kilian" <hkilian(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals |
Look at any glider, even the ones that are over 25 years old and you will find
quite easily adjustable rudder pedal systems. Katana's made originally by an
Austrian motorglider manufacturer, have of course the same systems the manufacturer
had put into gliders.
Herbert Kilian
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Newsted
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Rudder pedals
Adjustable rudder pedals present some interesting problems. While it could be
done using some jack-screws the rudder cable lengths would have to be
compensated too. This could be done with pulleys and/or springs, but any way
you look at it, this would require some significant mechanism and weight.
I think you would do better to consider making the seat back adjustment easier
and leave the rudder pedals as designed. The seat backs are held in position
with piano hinges. You have to tilt the backs forward and pull the hinge wires
to move them to another position. This is not a big deal, but it's not
what I
would call easy adjustment either. I would suggest that you install your
rudder pedals as designed. When you get to the point of having the seat
backs
installed, get some foam to match what you will be using in your seats, and have
your wife sit in the plane to see how far the seat would have to be moved
forward to work with the rudder pedal position. If it's just a small amount,
and the stick is still in a comfortable position, then just add another hinge
strip to the floor or space the three hinge strips accordingly. If the
stick
is not in a good position, then maybe you can move the rudder pedals back to
suit her height, and reposition the seat hinges to suit your height.
If all else fails, you can revisit the idea of adjustable rudder pedals with
jack-screws, perhaps drilling several holes in the rudder cable attach plates
and using a clevis bolt with a latching pin (looks like a safety pin).
I was surprised to find that Vans didn't provide any pedal adjustment, but I can
see why they chose to keep it simple too.
Let us all know what you come up with.
Gary Newsted
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Cruikshank <cruikshank(at)attbi.com> |
Bob.
Why not install dual brakes. Put light weight blocks (wood?)
on the left pedals, and you fly from the right side.
I'm planning to rig the right side with a handbrake
for myself, and fly from the right. The left seat will
be set up for my wife.
Bruce
RV-9A wings
RV-4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs |
There should be several #6 washers in the kit. If not, why not just buy some?
I doubt too many people make it through the project without ringing up some
extra bills for hardware.
Regarding riveting the side skins. Your side skins should have been riveted on
long before you came to the top skins. If you are talking about just the top
row of side skin rivets through the longerons, you need to pay attention to
which rivets to leave out. There are a half-dozen or so rivets that are spaced
closer than the rest and have no counterparts in the top skins. These are
intended to hold the side skins in place until the top skins go on. A few of
the side skin rivets in the middle of the canopy rails can be set now, just be
sure to leave the ones out where the top skins curve forward and aft. Some of
the rearward side skin rivets under the elevator can be set now too. Don't be
in any hurry to put the top skins on until you've completed things like static
ports and plumbing, tail nav/strobe wiring, control rods, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals |
Gosh, it's not like we've never flown airplanes before,,, but how about some
details?
If the RV-8 has adjustable rudder pedals, can someone snap a photo or describe
how it was done? Most Cessnas have a jack-screw setup with chains and
sprockets, yuck. There should be a simpler way. Can you describe the Katana
method in any detail? Whatever the mechanism, the cable slack must be
accounted for. Moving the seat remains the best solution I've heard yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Control Rod installation |
Fuselage builders take note! You should build, adjust, and install your
elevator control rod (the small diameter one from the bellcrank forward) as
early as possible. I thought I could slip the thing in from the bellcrank side,
but it turned out to be quite a puzzle. Save the hassle and lay it in place
when you join the tailcone to the center section. The control rod is a fixed
length, so you can set it ahead of time. Add a drop of loctite to the jam nuts,
or include a small safety wire tab under one of the rivets at each end. If
you're past this point, you'll do better to install the rod ends once the
control rod is in place, that shortens it by about 2" which should make it
easier to slide into place. (I didn't want to dismantle mine because the
loctite had set up and it is hard to measure the exact length if you install the
rod ends in the plane). If you do have to install the ends in the plane, maybe
you can set the length first and mark where the jam nuts go?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs |
I don't have any #6 washers, only #8's (The Thickness and O.D. are the same
for a #6 & a #8, with the I.D. being the only difference.) The Parts List
sent with the Fuselage Kit does not list any #6 washers, only #8.
The rivets I was referring to are located between the Forward and Aft Top
Skins along the Longerons on each side. At this time, I have not riveted
any Top Skins, but I'm getting tired of leaning over the 23 Cleco's holding
the "center" portion of the Forward Side Skin to the Longerons at the
Cockpit area.
I've studied the balance of the drawings (#41 and up) in my Preview Set
(with a magnifying glass) and can not find any reason why these 23
AN426AD3-5 rivets shouldn't be set now since nothing else is held in place
with them, but it's always a good idea to check with someone that has
already pasted that phase.
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Forward Fuselage Ribs
>
>" There should be several #6 washers in the kit...."
>
> "A few of the side skin rivets in the middle of the canopy rails can be
set now, just be
> sure to leave the ones out where the top skins curve forward and aft.
Some of
> the rearward side skin rivets under the elevator can be set now too....."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Flap linkage holes and control stick length |
...not to brag, but my stick seems too long! Seriously, has anyone considered
shortening their sticks? Now that I can sit down and play with the thing, it
seems to be excessively long. What's the collective thought about hacking off
a
couple of inches? As long as we're on this delicate subject, certain unnamed
female onlookers have already suggested swapping these phallic looking Mac Grips
for wooden pistol grips ("...if you ever want me to sit in the darn thing...").
Women... ;
)
Also, can anyone shed some light on how and where to cut the hole for the flap
linkage rods? There is one open rivet hole in the bottom skin directly below
each of them, but there is also an enlongated oval hole in each side skin in the
general area. The plans have yet to say where to cut the hole or how big it
needs to be. Is this just left up to the builder?
Be advised too, that Vans offers a superior replacement for the flap linkages.
Don't fabricate them from round tubing as the plans say. There has been a
failure reported. Order the hexongonal threaded rod ones. They are mentioned
in the RVator (a few issues ago). I can dig up a part number if you need it,
but you can just order them over the phone. They know what you need.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Fuselage Ribs |
Yeah you can go ahead and shoot those ones in. The ones to be left open are:
six starting from the front of the canopy rail back, and sixteen starting from
the side skin seam forward towards the canopy rail. Note that you may want to
add a few clips to hold your static line under the pilots side canopy rail.
Pre-drill any holes you need for routine the static line. It's hard to reach
later on.
My kit had about a dozen #6 washers which are smaller outside diameter. Oh
well, Vans inventory control is not all that it should be. They gave me three
nose tire tubes along with the two for the main wheels! I don't think it
would hurt to use a larger washer since it is just to spread the gap for the
windshield post to slide in.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Fuselage Ribs |
Dave,
I did just that. I set all but the ones forward of the roll bar since they
hold the top front skin also. I also set all the ones on the side of the
front except for the very top row. Top skin again.
Set Them and Forget them.
All you need is a washer thick enough to hold them apart so you can get the
windshield brace between them when the top skin is on. Otherwise you have to
get underneath and pry them apart to insert the tab on the brace. Use
whatever you have.
Larry Perryman
90288
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals |
Gary.....I have not seen the details, but the RV-8 adjustable pedals are
floor mounted, slide on the floor and there is no cable slack to deal
with. Each cable runs through an s-shaped (nylon?) block, and the pedal
just slides on the cable when you move it. The end of the cable goes up
to the firewall, and I assume must go around a pulley and connect to the
other rudder cable, or some such thing.
The RV-8 guys can probably give the details, but it seems like a simple,
slick system. All I know is, you pull a lanyard, slide the whole rudder
pedal assembly, and release the cable. Seems to work really neat. The
RV-8 pedals are NOT overhead like on the rest of the RV's.
As the last guy commented, a good a solution may be putting
appropriately made and pivoted blocks on the pedals on one side, if you
have two pilots of different "lengths" in the plane at the same time.
Gary
Gosh, it's not like we've never flown airplanes before,,, but how
about some
details?
If the RV-8 has adjustable rudder pedals, can someone snap a photo or
describe
how it was done......
Whatever the mechanism, the cable slack must be
accounted for. Moving the seat remains the best solution I've heard
yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap linkage holes and control stick length |
Gary.......I have sat in the Van's prototypes, and thought the sticks
were too long in all of them. There is an article in the "21 Years of
the RVator " that mentions many people cut them off shorter, (which I am
definately going to do), but says they are made long for the aerobatic
guys, to lower stick forces, and reduce sensitivity.
I like sensitivity. The RV-9 is likely less sensitive than the 6's, and
I plan on minimizing the number of hard rolling maneuvers I do in my
9'er. Believe me, in a RV-4, (which has shorter sticks), you can EASILY
pull way too hard, and the roll is extremely light and
responsive.......so I have always wondered why they put the 6 and 9
sticks up so high. Chin rest, maybe? Some guys say they leave them
long, and then hold them halfway up most of the time. As long as there
is no one watching, you can hold your stick any way you like, I guess.
On the other hand (so to speak) no one but your wife will have to know
if you shorten your "stick".
On the flap linkage, it looks to me like the small bottom hole and the
oval hole on the side skin next to it are to be "joined", so you end up
cutting out the whole corner between the side and bottom at that point.
My kit came with the hexagonal flap linkages, already tapped.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
...not to brag, but my stick seems too long! Seriously, has anyone
considered
shortening their sticks? Now that I can sit down and play with the
thing, it
seems to be excessively long. What's the collective thought about
hacking off a
couple of inches? As long as we're on this delicate subject, certain
unnamed
female onlookers have already suggested swapping these phallic looking
Mac Grips
for wooden pistol grips ("...if you ever want me to sit in the darn
thing...").
Women... ;
)
Also, can anyone shed some light on how and where to cut the hole for
the flap
linkage rods? There is one open rivet hole in the bottom skin
directly below
each of them, but there is also an enlongated oval hole in each side
skin in the
general area. The plans have yet to say where to cut the hole or how
big it
needs to be. Is this just left up to the builder?
Be advised too, that Vans offers a superior replacement for the flap
linkages.
Don't fabricate them from round tubing as the plans say. There has
been a
failure reported. Order the hexongonal threaded rod ones. They are
mentioned
in the RVator (a few issues ago). I can dig up a part number if you
need it,
but you can just order them over the phone. They know what you need.
=
=
messages.
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs |
"rv-list-matronics.com"
I notice there's a small gap at the top and bottom corners where the skin,
baffle and end ribs of the fuel tanks come together. Do I need to plug this
with a small piece of aluminum, or will Proseal fill the holes when you push
the bafffle into place?
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A wings
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs |
Interior baffles, leave open so fuel can flow between bays. On the end
pieces, seal them up with proseal.
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Schrimmer [mailto:mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net]
Subject: RV9-List: Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs
I notice there's a small gap at the top and bottom corners where the skin,
baffle and end ribs of the fuel tanks come together. Do I need to plug this
with a small piece of aluminum, or will Proseal fill the holes when you push
the bafffle into place?
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A wings
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Has anyone seen a plan for making the F758 brackets? They should be on
Plan 33 but I cant find them.
Thanks, Steve.
#90360
Fuse.
N Yorks., UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs |
Mark, Just squirt some proseal in the gap. You don't need to plug it with a
small piece of aluminum
Jim Streit
90073 wings
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
>
> I notice there's a small gap at the top and bottom corners where the skin,
> baffle and end ribs of the fuel tanks come together. Do I need to plug this
> with a small piece of aluminum, or will Proseal fill the holes when you push
> the bafffle into place?
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> RV-9A wings
> Irvine, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Steve,
The F-758 Flap Actuator Brackets are shipped as a single stamped piece that
kind of looks like a butterfly.
Look for a triangular piece about 3" on a side with one end "bent" to about
25.
The two pieces are connected with a couple of thin 1/8" bridges.
When you cut the bridges, you will end up the left and right brackets.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap linkage holes and control stick length |
on 2/4/02 5:59 AM, Gary Newsted at fcs(at)jlc.net wrote:
>
> Be advised too, that Vans offers a superior replacement for the flap linkages.
> Don't fabricate them from round tubing as the plans say. There has been a
> failure reported. Order the hexongonal threaded rod ones.
>
Gary,
Are the flap linkages shipped with the fuselage kit or the finishing kit?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap linkage holes and control stick length |
Mark....my flap links were in the fuselage kit. Newsted has an older
kit, and he apparently got the tubing material with his, same as they
still use on the 7's.
Gary Crowder 90263
on 2/4/02 5:59 AM, Gary Newsted at fcs(at)jlc.net wrote:
>
> Be advised too, that Vans offers a superior replacement for the flap
linkages.
> Don't fabricate them from round tubing as the plans say. There has
been a
> failure reported. Order the hexongonal threaded rod ones.
>
Gary,
Are the flap linkages shipped with the fuselage kit or the finishing
kit?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Customer support |
| From: | "Kendall R. Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com> |
I recently started my RV-9A project and was wondering if I'm the only
one that has trouble with customer support at Vans. What I mean by that
is un-answered emails and busy signals. I just don't remember these
problem a few years ago when I was working on an RV-4. Of course, that
was back before email was a big thing and certainly before Van's had a
website/email.
Ken #90476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Customer support |
The service that I have gotten from Van's has been very good. I have used
the phone for questions and the website for quite a few orders and both have
worked very well.
Dick Jones 90062
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendall R. Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Customer support
>
> I recently started my RV-9A project and was wondering if I'm the only
> one that has trouble with customer support at Vans. What I mean by that
> is un-answered emails and busy signals. I just don't remember these
> problem a few years ago when I was working on an RV-4. Of course, that
> was back before email was a big thing and certainly before Van's had a
> website/email.
>
> Ken #90476
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Moore" <tom.moore(at)coastepa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Customer support |
Ken
I too recently started my RV9A. I had a couple of minor problems with parts
which Scott Risan responded to by the next day. I haven't had any problems with
Van's support.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendall R. Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Customer support
>
> I recently started my RV-9A project and was wondering if I'm the only
> one that has trouble with customer support at Vans. What I mean by that
> is un-answered emails and busy signals. I just don't remember these
> problem a few years ago when I was working on an RV-4. Of course, that
> was back before email was a big thing and certainly before Van's had a
> website/email.
>
> Ken #90476
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Rounds <wrounds(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Customer support |
Kendall
I have found that if you address your E mail to one of the Individuals
that work at Vans such as Tom Green (tomg(at)vansaircraft.com) or Gus
Funnell (gusf(at)vansaircraft.com) you'll get quicker albeit brief
response. The undirected emails seem to go into a hopper and don't come
out for a while. Sometimes the next day.
Van's has gotten big but seem to be trying hard to answer all the
questions they must get. I don't contact them unless I can't find the
answer on the Matronics sight or my Tech counselor can't answer the
question.
Bill Rounds
N159RV
Kendall R. Simmons wrote:
>
>I recently started my RV-9A project and was wondering if I'm the only
>one that has trouble with customer support at Vans. What I mean by that
>is un-answered emails and busy signals. I just don't remember these
>problem a few years ago when I was working on an RV-4. Of course, that
>was back before email was a big thing and certainly before Van's had a
>website/email.
>
>Ken #90476
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Customer support |
I have found the support at Van's to be more than adequate. The email is
usually a day or 2. If it's something I really want to know right away I
make the effort to call right after 8am and don't usually wait long.
Dennis Thomas
wings(just starting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Static Line routing |
Newsted.....thanks for the tip on the static line clips that attach to
the longerons. Now, a question: Where are you routing the static line?
I made the holes in the F-706, 707, and 708 bulkheads, but I don't see
any information on where it goes from the rear of the baggage area
forward. ??
Gary Crowder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs |
A nice blob of proseal in the corners does the trick. says Van "...this is one
of the most common locations for leaks" By leaving the tank end plate off,
you can at least get your fingers in there to pack and round out the inboard
corners. Fun stuff eh?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Yeah and the flap actuator kit comes with another single-piece bracket that is
apparently for the RV6 or 8. Don't use it on your 9. The 9 requires the
two-piece bracket with clearance for control rod movement. I seem to recall
mine was in a paper bag.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap linkage holes and control stick length |
Yep, the fuse kit has the linkages. Mine plans said to drill and tap a small
diameter tube! Problem is that even if you could drill and tap that straight,
the walls would be very thin. Apparently one failed, sparking a debate whether
an RV is controllable with one flap,,, flapping. Dick claims the aileron
design provides ample authority to overcome this, but to calm phobias, use the
heavier hex rods. Sounds good to me...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs |
One of my cats just tangled with a skunk! I grabbed it by the scruff of the
neck and scrubbed it down in the sink (wishing my disposal was a little larger).
My wife asked me how I could stand the smell long enough to do that (she was
crying...). I said, sheeeit, after sealing my RV tanks, a little skunk aint
nothin.... Work with the stuff long enough and it'll seal those memories
forever!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line routing |
The static line should be run fairly high up along the fuselage so there are no
major low spots that could trap water. This is one of the reasons for the
over-the-top loop between the two ports.
I went a little further with my setup. I used a pair of AC-Spruce static ports
threaded into a pair of Cessna static sumps. Then from the tee connector, I ran
the static line along the left longeron through 1/4" snap bushings, under the
left canopy deck (using the aforementioned clips) and hang a right turn behind
the instrument panel. Nice and level the whole way, just like Orville would
have done had he lived long enough to build a RV.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Customer support |
I have found a few busy signals recently, the price of success I guess.
But support has been outstanding. Email is slower than a call. I
generally only use that when I want to send a picture, or it is the
weekend and I won't be near a phone on Monday.
As an aside, I am frequently bemused by what I think are serious
questions, asked on the LIST, rather than to Van's support.
Remember, everyone has an opinion. Many of us willing to venture an
opinion, are not flying.
Barry Pote RV9a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Installing the Landing Gear Mounts |
An interesting bunch of "learning's" during the installation of the Landing
Gear Mounts:
1. In order for the Inboard Flange of the Landing Gear Mounts to fit
properly, an 1/8" gap is necessary between the Forward Face of the F-904A
Center Section Forward Bulkhead and the Aft End of the F-972B L&R Floor
Stiffeners. I did not see this mentioned in the text or on the drawing.
2. In order for the Inboard Flange of the Landing Gear Mounts to fit
properly, the lower most "corner" rivet on the Forward Fuselage has to be
Bucked Flush on the inside as noted on DWG 23, lower right quadrant.
3. Backdrilling the forward most bolt hole on the Landing Gear Mounts can
not be done because the inside flange of the F-902 Bulkheads covers the
hole. (The aft hole is no problem.) I was able to locate the position of
the forward hole by measuring and using a level to drill the pilot hole.
4. Don't forget the washer that goes between the Landing Gear Mounts and
the F-904A Center Section Forward Bulkhead as called for on DWG 34,
Isometric Drawing.
5. You may have to enlarge the oval hole cut through the F-972 Lower
Forward Skin to make room for the weld fillet on the Landing Gear Mounts.
6. Plan on sanding off a little of the Powder Coat Paint on the lower
bearing surface of the upper end of the Landing Gear Leg before trying to
slide it into the Landing Gear Mount for match drilling. It's a very tight
precision fit, and the Powder Coat is thick.
7. When everything is "just right", the Landing Gear Mount fits in place
very nicely and all six of the AN4-13A Bolts slip in place with very little
force.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs |
I'll bet you had quit a time scrubbing that skunk. What did you do with the
cat?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs
>
> One of my cats just tangled with a skunk! I grabbed it by the scruff of
the
> neck and scrubbed it down in the sink (wishing my disposal was a little
larger).
> My wife asked me how I could stand the smell long enough to do that (she
was
> crying...). I said, sheeeit, after sealing my RV tanks, a little skunk
aint
> nothin.... Work with the stuff long enough and it'll seal those
memories
> forever!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Rod installation |
Gary - I looked at my (control) rod today. So how did you get it in?????
Its a bit longer right now than it will be when fitted. Did you pull it in
from the back and flex it or cut a hole in the rear bulkhead? Other?
Steve.
#90360
Fuse
N Yorks., UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Control Rod installation
>
> Fuselage builders take note! You should build, adjust, and install your
> elevator control rod (the small diameter one from the bellcrank forward)
as
> early as possible. I thought I could slip the thing in from the bellcrank
side,
> but it turned out to be quite a puzzle. Save the hassle and lay it in
place
> when you join the tailcone to the center section. The control rod is a
fixed
> length, so you can set it ahead of time. Add a drop of loctite to the jam
nuts,
> or include a small safety wire tab under one of the rivets at each end.
If
> you're past this point, you'll do better to install the rod ends once the
> control rod is in place, that shortens it by about 2" which should make it
> easier to slide into place. (I didn't want to dismantle mine because the
> loctite had set up and it is hard to measure the exact length if you
install the
> rod ends in the plane). If you do have to install the ends in the plane,
maybe
> you can set the length first and mark where the jam nuts go?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Dave & Gary - thanks. Me being stupid. I never thought to look for a part.
It looks so like one you have to make I made that assumption even though I
must have inventoried it. I will look tomorrow.
Another part I have not seen is the multipart electric cable for the
elevator trim. Did that come with your emp kit? I thought that would turn up
by now. I was prompted by the similar cable for the flaps. Perhaps there is
enough for both. Thoughts?
Thanks, Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel
>
> Steve,
>
> The F-758 Flap Actuator Brackets are shipped as a single stamped piece
that
> kind of looks like a butterfly.
>
> Look for a triangular piece about 3" on a side with one end "bent" to
about
> 25.
>
> The two pieces are connected with a couple of thin 1/8" bridges.
>
> When you cut the bridges, you will end up the left and right brackets.
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line routing |
While you are on static line I noticed the instructions showed where to put
the ports for an RV6. Has anyone seen positioning info for the -9? To get a
good static position is crucial. (Or at least it is on gliders.)
Thanks, Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Static Line routing
>
> The static line should be run fairly high up along the fuselage so there
are no
> major low spots that could trap water. This is one of the reasons for
the
> over-the-top loop between the two ports.
> I went a little further with my setup. I used a pair of AC-Spruce static
ports
> threaded into a pair of Cessna static sumps. Then from the tee connector,
I ran
> the static line along the left longeron through 1/4" snap bushings, under
the
> left canopy deck (using the aforementioned clips) and hang a right turn
behind
> the instrument panel. Nice and level the whole way, just like Orville
would
> have done had he lived long enough to build a RV.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Another place to look up parts is in the parts inventory list by part number
in the back of the plans manual. I moved the section to the front of my book
since it gives what kit and parts bundle the part is in as well as those you
make. Since it is numeric sequential, parts lookup is easy.
Regards
Larry Perryman
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sampson [mailto:SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu]
Subject: Re: RV9-List: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel
Dave & Gary - thanks. Me being stupid. I never thought to look for a part.
It looks so like one you have to make I made that assumption even though I
must have inventoried it. I will look tomorrow.
Another part I have not seen is the multipart electric cable for the
elevator trim. Did that come with your emp kit? I thought that would turn up
by now. I was prompted by the similar cable for the flaps. Perhaps there is
enough for both. Thoughts?
Thanks, Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel
>
> Steve,
>
> The F-758 Flap Actuator Brackets are shipped as a single stamped piece
that
> kind of looks like a butterfly.
>
> Look for a triangular piece about 3" on a side with one end "bent" to
about
> 25.
>
> The two pieces are connected with a couple of thin 1/8" bridges.
>
> When you cut the bridges, you will end up the left and right brackets.
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing the Landing Gear Mounts |
Wow, Dave, this is wierd! You posted almost all the same stuff that I
just sat down to write. I just finished this stuff this morning. I
concurr on all except the floor stiffener problem.......mine didn't
interfere with the gear mount, and come right up to the radius of the
bend in the spar flange.
I caught the problem with drilling the forward mount holes for the gear
mount before I installed the 902 bulkhead. Drilled them both from
behind. I guess other than your solution, the only way would be to
drill a #30 hole in the bulkhead flange, then on through the mount and
fuselage side, then come back from the outside with a #12 drill. The
manual never mentions drilling and fitting the gear mount. It should be
done before the side skins are riveted.
I was quite amazed at how well the gear mounts fit, once you wiggled
them in. A BIG help in getting them in is to leave out the outboard
nutplate on the front spar carrythrough flange till after the gear mount
is permanenty in place. I drilled it out, and will replace it much
later.
I also enlarged the egg-shaped socket hole in the belly skin a bit.
Those close-tolerance bolts really fit nice....light taps with a rubber
dead-blow hammer, is what it takes.
One more thing. I know you all think I'm nuts, but the outboard five
rivets that are under the gear mount, going through the front spar
flange and bottom skin......the ones it says you need to make flush on
the inside? I didn't. There was room on mine for all their little
tails under the gear mount. I don't recommend trying this without
careful fitting and measuring, though. Might be easier to just follow
the notes.
Gary Crowder
PS Great post on Newsted's skunk!
----- Original Message -----
An interesting bunch of "learning's" during the installation of the
Landing
Gear Mounts:
1. In order for the Inboard Flange of the Landing Gear Mounts to fit
properly, an 1/8" gap is necessary between the Forward Face of the
F-904A
Center Section Forward Bulkhead and the Aft End of the F-972B L&R
Floor
Stiffeners. I did not see this mentioned in the text or on the
drawing.
2. In order for the Inboard Flange of the Landing Gear Mounts to fit
properly, the lower most "corner" rivet on the Forward Fuselage has to
be
Bucked Flush on the inside as noted on DWG 23, lower right quadrant.
3. Backdrilling the forward most bolt hole on the Landing Gear Mounts
can
not be done because the inside flange of the F-902 Bulkheads covers
the
hole. (The aft hole is no problem.) I was able to locate the
position of
the forward hole by measuring and using a level to drill the pilot
hole.
4. Don't forget the washer that goes between the Landing Gear Mounts
and
the F-904A Center Section Forward Bulkhead as called for on DWG 34,
Isometric Drawing.
5. You may have to enlarge the oval hole cut through the F-972 Lower
Forward Skin to make room for the weld fillet on the Landing Gear
Mounts.
6. Plan on sanding off a little of the Powder Coat Paint on the lower
bearing surface of the upper end of the Landing Gear Leg before trying
to
slide it into the Landing Gear Mount for match drilling. It's a very
tight
precision fit, and the Powder Coat is thick.
7. When everything is "just right", the Landing Gear Mount fits in
place
very nicely and all six of the AN4-13A Bolts slip in place with very
little
force.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line routing |
Steve, it shows the locations on the drawing for the side skin rivet
callouts. Detail E, sheet 28.
Gary Crowder
While you are on static line I noticed the instructions showed where
to put
the ports for an RV6. Has anyone seen positioning info for the -9? To
get a
good static position is crucial. (Or at least it is on gliders.)
Thanks, Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Flying RV-9A in OK, TX, KS area? |
Are there any flying RV-9A in the Oklahoma area (or TX, KS). I'm 98%
convinced the -9 is for me, but I sure would like to ride/fly one. Not
going to get to Oregon anytime soon. Hoping a generous owner/builder will
grant me time in his/her machine.
Dutch
Oklahoma City, OK
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <Larry.PERRYMAN(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Flying RV-9A in OK, TX, KS area? |
Dutch,
I have not heard of any 9s flying except for the one that is flying with the
Subaru engine in NY. I will have mine in the air in the April / May
timeframe if that will help. I am in Houston (Conroe CXO) area. Get my
engine in March.
There should be a batch of 9s finished this spring. You might go out to Doug
Reeves builders list and see if there are any builders in your area.
Regards
Larry Perryman
90288 N194DL Reserved
-----Original Message-----
From: Dutch Revenboer [mailto:n507aa(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: RV9-List: Flying RV-9A in OK, TX, KS area?
Are there any flying RV-9A in the Oklahoma area (or TX, KS). I'm 98%
convinced the -9 is for me, but I sure would like to ride/fly one. Not
going to get to Oregon anytime soon. Hoping a generous owner/builder will
grant me time in his/her machine.
Dutch
Oklahoma City, OK
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing the Landing Gear Mounts |
We had to clearance our floor stiffener angles at the spar to clear the
weldment. We also drilled the forward 2 holes on the side, from inside,
using a #30 (I think) which fit the holes in the weldment, then drill
with a #12 from the outside. My manual says, in effect, "Install the
weldment". My grommets on the spar were not concentric with the weldment
hole, so I enlarged to the next larger size,with a unibit. Have not
re-installed yet.
Barry POte RV9a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstern(at)bigeasy.net |
| Subject: | Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
I am a financial consultant with an instrument liscense (flying since 77')who
is considering taking on the RV9. The problem is that although not a complete
mechanical nerd, I have no experience rivoting at all and have only done small
furniture pieces in my shop. So, what do you think? Would I be setting myself
up for huge disapointment or is this project really possible for the Alan
Greenspans of the world. Thanks, Bob Stern In the Big Easy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
I assume you are referring to the preview plans manual, which has an
excellent parts list. Tell where the parts were, bag etc. , and whether
it is a part or you have to make it. Worth the price of the book. Also,
the plans are up to date (much more so than my plans . I am kit 90084.
many errors in the plans received with the kit.
Barry POte RV9a fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert scott <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
Hey Bob,
Go for it! What you don't know you can learn. There is always someone eager to
help. Get involved in a local EAA chapter. Start surfing some builders sites and
see what it involves. Then just start Building !!!!
Robert Scott
RV9A
www.myrv9a.com
bstern(at)bigeasy.net wrote:
>
> I am a financial consultant with an instrument liscense (flying since 77')who
> is considering taking on the RV9. The problem is that although not a complete
> mechanical nerd, I have no experience rivoting at all and have only done small
> furniture pieces in my shop. So, what do you think? Would I be setting myself
> up for huge disapointment or is this project really possible for the Alan
> Greenspans of the world. Thanks, Bob Stern In the Big Easy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
Hi Bob,
I'm retired from the grocery business and when I bought my tool kit I had to
ask them what some of the tools were and what they were used for. I have
found all kinds of resources. This site. Van's phone and online support.
The folks at Cleaveland where I bought my tools and all kinds of folks at the
airport. Remember, to learn is to be alive.
Dennis Thomas
wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
Bob, If I can, ANYONE can. I have found the tail is where the a lot of the
basics are learned-very steep learning curve there. Plus you screw anything
up, which most of us have, its not expensive to reorder a part. If I am not
mistaken the 9 has pre drilled skins AND ribs whereas the 6 that I am
building does not-so that would make it much much easier for you. The "real"
builders are the ones that did not have the pre drilled skins or ribs. The
excuse that you think you are not capable will not wash. The only criteria is
that you must be able to read and read a ruler. Best of luck, plus you will
find a lot of helpful guys here that will help you, and believe me I have
asked for a lot of it.
GO FOR IT!!!! Bob in Arkansas finishing wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Cloud" <ercouper(at)flash.net> |
One thing to consider with different size pilots, all dimensions are shorter
on shorter pilots. By moving just the rudder pedals, the shorter pilot can
reach the pedals but the arms may be too short to reach the radios and other
things on the panel without having to lean forward all the time... not to
mention seeing over the panel. By using a thicker seat back it moves the
torso closer to the panel and moves the rump to a higher spot on the seat
cushion.
Ralph
Emp beginings
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Cruikshank
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:48 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Rudder pedals
>
>
> Bob.
>
> Why not install dual brakes. Put light weight blocks (wood?)
> on the left pedals, and you fly from the right side.
> I'm planning to rig the right side with a handbrake
> for myself, and fly from the right. The left seat will
> be set up for my wife.
>
> Bruce
> RV-9A wings
> RV-4 flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James R. Render" <jimpattr(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer |
Is there a source for rebuilt pneumatic rivet squeezes?
Jim
90487
1825 St. Ives Circle
Lexington, KY
40502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing fuel tank baffle and skin to end ribs |
> I'll bet you had quit a time scrubbing that skunk. What did you do with the
> cat?
Prosealed it's tail to the garage door. Makes a good knocker. Still stinks
though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Rod installation |
Told ya so. Well I pushed, shoved, jiggled and wiggled it, then when it was a
mere .4295" shy of the bulkhead, I pryed the bulkhead back a bit, made sure
nobody was lookin', and rammed that sucker home. Real alpha-dog stuff. I did
check it for straightness. No harm done, one lesson learned the hard way.
If it comes up short, I'll be the one flying power-on stalls all the way to
Oshkosh. Naaaa, it's OK. But consider yourselves warned.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer |
Avery use to sell reconditioned Squeezers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line routing |
Static port positions are marked on Sheet 28 and mentioned in the sheet that
comes in the bag with the static line and fittings. Vans uses a drilled out
pop rivet as the port! Yuck. Spend a few bucks and buy a pair of real
fittings.
I just drilled for a 1/4" snap bushing fitting in the seat back bulkhead as far
up as I could reach from the back. It came out OK and doesn't seem to
interfere with any of the sliding canopy mechanism. Can't speak for your tipsy
types.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert scott <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer |
Hi jim,
I have a email link on my site in the Hanger section to a company that
refurbishes squeezers. Hope this helps.
Robert Scott
RV9A
www.myrv9a.com
"James R. Render" wrote:
>
> Is there a source for rebuilt pneumatic rivet squeezes?
>
> Jim
> 90487
> 1825 St. Ives Circle
> Lexington, KY
> 40502
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Parts lists? How prosaic of you! The first thing my daughter and I do
when a kit phase arrives is rip all the little bags apart and dump the parts
into plastic bins. She has fun and you get to know all the parts up front.
No need to keep rivets and bolts in separate bags.
Not sure what you mean Steve about the "multi part electric cable". If you are
talking about wiring up the trim servo's, then don't waste your time looking for
wire, there isn't any. I am just wiring up my elevator servo now. I bought
some 22 ga 3-conductor stranded and shielded wire for the position sense
circuits and 18 ga 2-conductor stranded non-shielded wire for the trim motor
circuit. The position wires run to the instrument panel, while the motor wires
stop near the control sticks for stick-mounted trim switches. At the tail end,
I have mounted a DB9 connector to the F709 buckhead. I am using a cut-off DB9
Serial Cable from the local computer store as the harness between the fuselage
and elevator trim motor. It is 26ga which is OK according to MAC instructions.
This gives me a nice solid connection which is easily sealed. I have heard
people have used PS-2 (mouse/keyboard) DIN connectors, but I don't like the
small pins or having to tape the connector halves together. These do work
nicely for inside the control sticks however, especially if you want to make the
passenger stick removable (when flying with the wife). Of course you can also
be a pro and buy a real cannon plug, but I felt the serial cable was perfect in
this particular instance. Besides, my plane is full of computer cables. I'll
draw up some diagrams and shoot some photos for my web site shortly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
Hey, Allen Greenspan would buy a Citation. Come to think of it, a little
financial advice would go along well with building an RV. Maybe we could get
a
good deal on some creative financing from Anderson Consulting. I hear they can
work wonders with all these pesky debts.
Seriously, the reason Vans sells empennage kits for 1500 bucks is so you can
give it a go. If it works out for you, dive in. If not, at least you didn't
lose a fortune and you've got a great piece of workshop sculpture. I know I'm
going to miss it when it's done. But then again,,, check out
http://www.viperjet.com/index2.html
Hmmmm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage skin oil canning |
Has anyone considered installing fuselage stiffener material along the
floor skins between bulkheads 707 and 708 and between 707 and 706? An
RV-7 builder stopped by and thought the skin movement
could result in noise problems possibly when landing kind of like the
noise your ductwork makes when the furnace fan shuts down and the system
pressure drops. I told you guys waiting for my finishing kit has left me
with little to do. Seriously, we're left with ample F-786B stiffener
stock and it wouldn't take much to put it in......Thoughts anyone.
Steve Dwyer 90219
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage skin oiling canning |
Has anyone considered installing some F-786B stiffener material along
the floor skin between the three bulkheads 706,707and 708? Another
builder stopped in recently and wondered if the floor skins in this area
may be cause for a noise problem during flight or on landing. He
compared it to the noise your ductwork will sometimes make when the
furnace fan shuts down and the system pressure drops. Thoughts anyone?
Steve Dwyer 90219
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
Hey Gary, Why not take on a Viperjet project and for in between sessions
throw in the www.factoryfive.com
Steve Dwyer Waiting on the finishing kit with very little to do.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Newsted <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Is the RV9 project too much to take on?
>
> Hey, Allen Greenspan would buy a Citation. Come to think of it, a little
> financial advice would go along well with building an RV. Maybe we could
get a
> good deal on some creative financing from Anderson Consulting. I hear
they can
> work wonders with all these pesky debts.
>
> Seriously, the reason Vans sells empennage kits for 1500 bucks is so you
can
> give it a go. If it works out for you, dive in. If not, at least you
didn't
> lose a fortune and you've got a great piece of workshop sculpture. I
know I'm
> going to miss it when it's done. But then again,,, check out
> http://www.viperjet.com/index2.html
>
> Hmmmm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Luster" <rlluster(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
Bob,
You will find that a learning curve will be involved. Take care to understand what
is going on. You will use the same things over and over, as you get farther
into the manual, you will be getting less and less information, it will be assumed
that you have picked up the knowledge. Just take the building process one
step at a time and you will greatly enjoy this project. If you can build a
plastic model, you can build a RV9 with great results.
Richard Luster
Marysville, Wash
stopped building for a while, ready to order the RV10
----- Original Message -----
From: Bobpaulo(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Is the RV9 project too much to take on?
Bob, If I can, ANYONE can. I have found the tail is where the a lot of the
basics are learned-very steep learning curve there. Plus you screw anything
up, which most of us have, its not expensive to reorder a part. If I am not
mistaken the 9 has pre drilled skins AND ribs whereas the 6 that I am
building does not-so that would make it much much easier for you. The "real"
builders are the ones that did not have the pre drilled skins or ribs. The
excuse that you think you are not capable will not wash. The only criteria is
that you must be able to read and read a ruler. Best of luck, plus you will
find a lot of helpful guys here that will help you, and believe me I have
asked for a lot of it.
GO FOR IT!!!! Bob in Arkansas finishing wings
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage skin oiling canning |
Steve......I have a friend who is building an RV-6A who did just what
you are suggesting. I see no problem doing that. I chose not to, don't
see any need.
Maybe on a taildragger. Ever ride in a Luscombe on a grass strip?
Sounds like you are in a garbage can, and someone is beating on it with
a baseball bat. I don't know if it is oil canning, or just resonating.
Gary
Has anyone considered installing some F-786B stiffener material along
the floor skin between the three bulkheads 706,707and 708? Another
builder stopped in recently and wondered if the floor skins in this
area
may be cause for a noise problem during flight or on landing. He
compared it to the noise your ductwork will sometimes make when the
furnace fan shuts down and the system pressure drops. Thoughts anyone?
Steve Dwyer 90219
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer |
Jim,
Try The Yard. http://www.yardstore.com/ Tehy are always helpful.
Dale
90075
N61DX
----- Original Message -----
From: "James R. Render" <jimpattr(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer
>
> Is there a source for rebuilt pneumatic rivet squeezes?
>
> Jim
> 90487
> 1825 St. Ives Circle
> Lexington, KY
> 40502
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
The multi- conducter wire for the Mac Trim servos is available directly from
Mac.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer |
on 2/5/02 7:27 PM, Bobpaulo(at)aol.com at Bobpaulo(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Avery use to sell reconditioned Squeezers.
>
Fred Kunkel sells rebuilt squeezers. Check the archives for an e-mail
address. If that doesn't work, let me know and I'll see if I can track him
down through some of the other Southern California builders.
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Elevator servo etc |
Gary(s) /Barry and others,
Thanks for the various replies. I was all set with the wing plans
practically memorised in my head by the time the QB wings and fuse
arrived, but with the wings a shipping write off I have turned to the
fuse and am miles behind the drag curve on learning how it fits
together. ( s'pose I could read plans until I'm ahead again, but thats
somthing for late evening.)
Gary N - wonder why when they supply a multi core cable for the flap
motor they dont for the elevator trimmer. Hey ho, not a big problem.
Just assumed I had overlooked it.
Thanks for the warning about getting your rod in. I think I might email
VANS in due course and ask if I can put a small hole in the bulkhead web
(I think it is the one near the seat belt anchors) so I can slide the
rod back through it and then forward past the crank at the rear of the
baggage compartement - I think that would work. I hate flexing my rod
that much! (Gary N - enjoy!)
Thanks, Steve.
#90360
N Yorks., UK
PS GaryN, I look forward to seeing your wiring pictures especially for
the MAC servo end of the system. It seems to me it would have been much
nicer if they had put a decent length tail of wire on the servo.
PPS A serious comment about your stick. I wouldnt shorten it til you
have flown with it a while. While the -9 is not an aerobatic aircraft,
in heavy turbulence a long stick is nice. I was out today in my Supercub
- it was fairly brutal - and while I normaly fly 'two fingers' I was
using two hands. I used to fly a 60' span glider and after several hours
flight on rough days, again I used to wish the stick was twice as long
despite being the most beautifully balanced thing going. Even with two
hands it can get plain hard work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator servo etc |
Steve.......you got a multi-conductor cable with your Electric Flap kit?
Gee, you quickbuilders get the good stuff. Mine just came with some
plain wire and a switch.
On the control stick length, you are right, no need to cut it till you
try it. However, I assure you any RV I was ever in has MUCH lighter and
nicer controls than the dear old Super Cub. I've been in turbulence in
a Four that would jerk your socks off, and the only concern about stick
forces is to not OVER do it. The things ride so well, you don't have to
fight it anyway. I have not been in a 9'er, but I hope they are nearly
as light.
All this talk is making me anxious to fly. Maybe the Chinook Winds will
let up here SOMEDAY.
See ya,
Gary
Gary N - wonder why when they supply a multi core cable for the flap
motor they dont for the elevator trimmer. Hey ho, not a big problem.
Just assumed I had overlooked it.
PPS A serious comment about your stick. I wouldnt shorten it til you
have flown with it a while. While the -9 is not an aerobatic aircraft,
in heavy turbulence a long stick is nice. I was out today in my
Supercub
- it was fairly brutal - and while I normaly fly 'two fingers' I was
using two hands. I used to fly a 60' span glider and after several
hours
flight on rough days, again I used to wish the stick was twice as long
despite being the most beautifully balanced thing going. Even with two
hands it can get plain hard work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator servo etc |
Oh, I forgot to mention: Be sure you get Van's blessing on the 'getting
the rod in' problem before you cut a hole in the 705 bulkhead. That is
the rear spar carrythrough you are contemplating perforating....
Gary C
Thanks for the warning about getting your rod in. I think I might
email
VANS in due course and ask if I can put a small hole in the bulkhead
web
(I think it is the one near the seat belt anchors) so I can slide the
rod back through it and then forward past the crank at the rear of the
baggage compartement - I think that would work. I hate flexing my rod
that much! (Gary N - enjoy!)
Thanks, Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is the RV9 project too much to take on? |
In a message dated 2/6/02 1:52:24 AM Central Standard Time,
rv9-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> I am a financial consultant with an instrument liscense (flying since
> 77')who
> is considering taking on the RV9. The problem is that although not a
> complete
> mechanical nerd, I have no experience rivoting at all and have only done
> small
> furniture pieces in my shop. So, what do you think? Would I be setting
> myself
> up for huge disapointment or is this project really possible for the Alan
> Greenspans of the world. Thanks, Bob Stern In the Big Easy
Bob:
I have a friend putting together a quick build RV-6 with no prior aviation
maintenance experience and limited automotive work either. He attended a
builder's weekend class held in Dallas and saw that there really isn't
anything to riveting after receiving a few lessons and some practice...also
with the help on the WEB and from local builders the project is very
do-able...in the end the greatest LIMFACS (limiting factors) to building an
RV will be time and money.
Doug Lomheim
RV-9 wings (OK City, OK)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | E: RV9-List:control stick length; was Elevator servo etc |
When cutting the control sticks, it is a good idea to leave the pilots
stick a little longer than the passenger stick, to give more leverage to
ensure you won't be overpowered by a panicking passenger. (a good backhand
will probably make them let go too)
S. Todd Bartrim
13B rotary powered
RV-9 (finish kit)
C-FSTB (reserved)
>
> On the control stick length, you are right, no need to cut it till you
> try it. However, I assure you any RV I was ever in has MUCH lighter and
> nicer controls than the dear old Super Cub. I've been in turbulence in
> a Four that would jerk your socks off, and the only concern about stick
> forces is to not OVER do it. The things ride so well, you don't have to
> fight it anyway. I have not been in a 9'er, but I hope they are nearly
> as light.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Also The Ray ALLEN Co.
Regards
Larry Perryman
>
> The multi- conducter wire for the Mac Trim servos is available directly
from
> Mac.
> Dennis Thomas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F758 and Flap Actuator Channel |
Apparently MAC is now "The Ray Allen Company" 2525-8 Pioneer Ave, Vista, CA
92083
Phone 760 599-4720 Fax 760 599-4383 www.rayallencompany.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Flap linkage holes |
I have the fuse upside down with a wing and the gear legs temporarily
attached making the gear leg fairing intersections out of fiberglass and I
find this is an ideal time to put the flap linkage hole in the exact right
spot.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap linkage holes |
OK, so where does it go? Let us know when you've got one drilled.
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | daniel conners <conners(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | airleron spar csk |
Working on airlerons and flaps and csked a scap of .040 (spar) to nest
a dimpled .020
scrap (skin)-the #40 hole is now way oversized. Any ideas? thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airleron spar csk |
on 2/7/02 5:15 PM, daniel conners at conners(at)erols.com wrote:
>
> Working on airlerons and flaps and csked a scap of .040 (spar) to nest
> a dimpled .020
> scrap (skin)-the #40 hole is now way oversized. Any ideas? thanks
>
>
Daniel,
I had the same problem. I called Van's and they told me to make a doubler
out of some thin strips of .020 or .025 aluminum. Put the doublers on the
inside of the spar, so the shop head is formed against the doubler instead
of against the spar itself. Let me know if you need more info.
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A wings
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airleron spar csk |
on 2/7/02 5:34 PM, Mark Schrimmer at mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net wrote:
>
> on 2/7/02 5:15 PM, daniel conners at conners(at)erols.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Working on airlerons and flaps and csked a scap of .040 (spar) to nest
>> a dimpled .020
>> scrap (skin)-the #40 hole is now way oversized. Any ideas? thanks
>>
>>
Daniel,
I re-read your question and it sounds like you haven't actually countersunk
the real spar yet, just a piece of scraqp. In that case, forget what I said
about the doublers and just don't dimple the spars so deep.
After I made this mistake with my left flap, some other builders in my EAA
chapter explained that it's OK if the dimples aren't completely nested. They
said it's more important to make sure the hole isn't too big for the rivet.
I didn't countersink as deeply on my right flap and it came out fine.
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airleron spar csk |
When I did that on my first Aileron, I ordered a replacement Spar and
started over.
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "daniel conners" <conners(at)erols.com>
Subject: RV9-List: airleron spar csk
>
> Working on airlerons and flaps and csked a scap of .040 (spar) to nest
> a dimpled .020
> scrap (skin)-the #40 hole is now way oversized. Any ideas? thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airleron spar csk |
Daniel,
You can countersink .040 deep enough without enlarging the pilot hole,
if you set your depth carefully, and then back the part up with a piece
of particle board. Drill through the spar holes into the particle
board, and cleco the spar right to it, every hole. Then the wood acts
as an extension for the pilot hole, and the bit doesn't wander. When
you are done, there will only be a few thousandths of the .040 material
that is not beveled, so it is a little touchy.
Gary Crowder
Working on airlerons and flaps and csked a scap of .040 (spar) to
nest
a dimpled .020
scrap (skin)-the #40 hole is now way oversized. Any ideas? thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Flap linkage holes |
> OK, so where does it go? Let us know when you've got one drilled.
Gary, I should have added a little more information. What I meant was that
with the wing on and the fuse upside down, I could attach the flap and then
quite easily make the hole in the right place for the linkage. Since there
might be slight variations from plane to plane or even side to side on a
given plane enlarging the hole after the flap was attached would take that
into consideration. I'm finding doing this with the fuse upside down in
quite easy. As soon as I finish the gear leg fairing intersections I fit
the linkage and tell you the results.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | gear leg fairing intersections |
Drawings C2 and C3 on the finish kit show the intersections and what you are
trying to achieve. And no, there is no mold or anything supplied to help
out. This is the way I have approached the problem.
Using modeling clay, at the top and bottoms of the gear leg where the
fairing ends and leaves just the round gear leg exposed, I used modeling
clay and filled in around the gear leg to extended the surfaces to the fuse
and to the wheel pant. After this clay dried, I used clay to build up a
contour as if this was the intersection fairing but I made it just a little
undersize. I found that if this buildup of clay dried the thin areas would
pull away from the fuse or wheel pant so I started laying fiberglass over it
almost immediately. Tomorrow, after that has set up, I'll mix up a little
resin with micro balloons in it and smooth out any areas that need it. I'll
let you know how it worked then.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
> Albert,
> Are you saying we have to make the gear leg fairing intersections from
> scratch out of fiberglass? No pre-molded part to even use as a guide?
> Silly me, I thought the worst mess would be over after I finished sealing
my
> fuel tanks!
> Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, tailwind-list(at)matronics.com,
yak-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Project For Sale... |
Listers,
I've decided I want an RV-7 and am selling my RV-4 Airframe Project. Below
are two URLs with tons of pictures of the project. Please note that *only*
the items listed specifically below are being sold. The avionics, engine,
prop, etc. shown in the pictures will be kept for my next project.
http://www.matronics.com/mattsrv4/
http://www.matronics.com/mattsrv4/MiscPictures/
I would prefer not split this stuff up and will sell it as a package deal
only. Wings and tanks are 95% done and are wired for Whelen Strobes and
position lights. Fin, Rudder, Horz Stab are complete. Elevators are 50%
complete. Fuselage is about 80% complete with canopy completely
installed. Fuselage is on the gear, but little work FWF has been
done. The cutout in the FW for the prop governor has been started.
Workmanship is good throughout the kit.
Here is a list of the items included in the sale:
Van's RV-4 Kit (Emp/Wing/Fuse/Finish)
Vetterman Exhaust (Crossover)
Engine Baffle Kit
Filtered Air Box
2 Lever Quadrants
F&R Seat Belts
Molded Stick Grips
Electric Elevator Trim Kit
Electric Aileron Trim Kit
Electric Flap Kit
Fuel Tank Flop Tubes L&R
Fuel Selector Valve
Rear Seat Rudder Pedals
Full Swivel Tailwheel Assy
Heat Selector
Bob Olds Landing Lights L&R
Tires & Tubes
Tailwheel Fairing
Fiberglass Gear Fairings
Temperfoam Front and Rear Seats w/ Upholstery
New Light Weight Prepreg Cowling for CS O360
This list of items represents an investment of over $17,000. I will sell
the whole thing for $11,000 firm. I can accept M/C or Visa for an
additional 4% of the sale amount.
I will crate the entire kit as listed above for shipment anywhere in the
continental US for an additional $600. Freight charges will be COD via the
carrier of your choice.
For further information, please contact me via email at dralle(at)matronics.com
Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-9 --- RV-8 (or RV-9 tail kit for sale) |
| From: | "Kendall R. Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com> |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 --- RV-8 |
Hi Kendall,
There is a fellow in our E.A.A. Chapter that was bulding an 8 and lost his
medical. The kit was put up for sale but may have been sold. I will check
on it today and let you know.
Dennis Thomas
RV9, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kendall R. Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com> |
Thanks.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: DThomas773(at)aol.com [mailto:DThomas773(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-9 --- RV-8
Hi Kendall,
There is a fellow in our E.A.A. Chapter that was bulding an 8 and lost
his
medical. The kit was put up for sale but may have been sold. I will
check
on it today and let you know.
Dennis Thomas
RV9, wings
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap linkage holes |
With both wings installed (temp) and flaps installed and lined up I am able
to see where the fuselage holes for the flap linkage will need to be. The
rod end on the flap will hit the fuse bottom so the hole will need to start
on the belly skin about 3/8" in from the side. Although I haven't started
cutting it yet, it looks like the cutout on the side skin will get smaller
as it moves up the side. The center of the hole is just about where the
factory pilot hole is in the side skin but the finished cutout will much
larger-large enough to contain the rod end bearing with the flap fully
retracted. After seeing what was need, I call Gus at Vans and he confirmed
that one needs to "cut a mousehole in the side skin." My fuse is upside
down now with the wings on making the gear leg fairing intersections so I
think I'll wait till the fuse is back on its feet to cut the 'mousehole' for
the flaps.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Spar spacing |
How many of you guys have checked the fit of the wings to the fuselage?
I just did some careful measuring before riveting the side skins, and
found that the distance between the front and rear spar on the right
wing is 1/16 inch greater than the corresponding distance on the left
wing and both sides of the fuselage.
I will call Van's tomorrow. Anyone else have similar problems? Any
suggestions?
Gary Crowder
90263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com> |
What size Safety Wire should I plan on using (0.032" or 0.041")?
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Assembly Instructions |
There are no instructions in my construction manual about mounting the wings
so I sort of made up my own list of things to do (setting sweep to zero and
squaring the wings to the fuse) but when I was talking to Gus at Vans he
said those instructions had be left out of some of the manuals and he faxed
me a couple pages of instructions. If any one else needs them I could scan
them and send them to you direct.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV9-List: gear leg fairing intersections
>
> Drawings C2 and C3 on the finish kit show the intersections and what you
are
> trying to achieve. And no, there is no mold or anything supplied to help
> out. This is the way I have approached the problem.
> Using modeling clay, at the top and bottoms of the gear leg where the
> fairing ends and leaves just the round gear leg exposed, I used modeling
> clay and filled in around the gear leg to extended the surfaces to the
fuse
> and to the wheel pant. After this clay dried, I used clay to build up a
> contour as if this was the intersection fairing but I made it just a
little
> undersize. I found that if this buildup of clay dried the thin areas
would
> pull away from the fuse or wheel pant so I started laying fiberglass over
it
> almost immediately. Tomorrow, after that has set up, I'll mix up a little
> resin with micro balloons in it and smooth out any areas that need it.
I'll
> let you know how it worked then.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
> Working on fuse
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
> > Albert,
> > Are you saying we have to make the gear leg fairing intersections from
> > scratch out of fiberglass? No pre-molded part to even use as a guide?
> > Silly me, I thought the worst mess would be over after I finished
sealing
> my
> > fuel tanks!
> > Mark Schrimmer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Assembly Instructions |
Albert,
My manual has absolutely nothing on mounting the wings. The drawing
shows where to locate the hole in the rear spar attach, and how to set
the incidence with a level. That is it. Thanks for letting me know
there is supposed to be a section about it in the manual. If you don't
mind sending them, I'd like to see what you got. You can email me
directly, off list.
The more I look at this problem of spar spacing, the uglier it gets. I
do not understand how the distance between spars can be different from
one wing to the other. Everything on the wings fit beautifully, the
skins have no gaps, the twist was no more than 1/64 inch.
Apparently yours just slid right in? Did you ever check the dimensions
or fit before mounting the wings?
Gary Crowder
There are no instructions in my construction manual about mounting the
wings
so I sort of made up my own list of things to do (setting sweep to
zero and
squaring the wings to the fuse) but when I was talking to Gus at Vans
he
said those instructions had be left out of some of the manuals and he
faxed
me a couple pages of instructions. If any one else needs them I could
scan
them and send them to you direct.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
0.032 for general use. 0.041 for prop bolts,
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Safety Wire
What size Safety Wire should I plan on using (0.032" or 0.041")?
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Oops! 0.041 is also mandated by FAA for turnbuckles!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Safety Wire
0.032 for general use. 0.041 for prop bolts,
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)home.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Safety Wire
What size Safety Wire should I plan on using (0.032" or 0.041")?
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Wing/Fuselage Assembly Instructions |
[I received the text below in a FAX from Gus (Vans Builders Support) after I
mentioned to him that there were no instructions about installing the wing
in the construction manual. I used an OCR program to turn the FAX into text
so that I could include it in a posting to the RV9 list since the list will
not accept attachments. I have proofread this but be aware some
misspellings may get by me so read carefully. I have followed almost all of
these steps and they work fine.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved)
Working on finish]
WING/FUSELAGE ASSEMBLY
During this phase of construction it is necessary to assemble the wings to
the fuselage for a number of reasons including drilling the rear spar/center
section attach, finishing the aileron and flap control mechanisms,
installing the wing tank/fuselage attach brackets, fabricating and fitting
fuel & vent lines, and installing the wing root fairings. If you are working
in a small shop it is acceptable to install, then remove one wing at a time.
MARKING THE SCREW HOLES
Before installing the wing, mark screw locations at each unused rivet space
on the bottom flange of the W-710 root rib on the outside of the W-704
bottom wing skin. Then mark a straight line from the hole location toward
the wing tip and make a measured mark 3" outboard from the intended screw
location. This will allow you to measure back to the same point on the
overlapping F 976 fuselage skin. If your wing tips have been permanently
attached to the wings and/or your shop dimensions are such that the aileron
pushrods cannot be inserted from the tips of the wings, the W-917 pushrods
must be loosely placed in the wing lightening holes from the root before the
wing panels are "plugged-in" to the fuselage. Installing the wing panels
should be very simple, as the spars have been fitted and drilled at the
factory. It is helpful to file a slight bevel on the root ends of the spar
to assist getting it started sliding through the slot in the fuselage
bulkhead, and to prevent it from scratching and galling the bulkhead bars as
it slides through. Support the inboard ends of the wings when inserting to
prevent the bottom of the spar from dragging along the inside of the
fuselage bottom skin. As the wings are pushed in near center, be sure that
the F-976 fuselage center bottom skin (which overhangs the fuselage) doesn't
catch on the wing skin.
FITTING THE WING PANELS
When bringing the wing panel into its exact position and lining up the bolt
holes in the bulkhead and spar, it is often helpful to use drift pins. These
are usually a disposable hardware store bolt with the end rounded or tapered
on a grinder. Gently driving this into a nearly aligned hole will center the
bulkhead/spar hole so that the bolts can be installed without excessive
force. Once the holes are aligned, use 7/16" and 1/4" hardware store bolts
for test fitting to prevent damage to the holes and NAS bolts, For fitting
purposes, it is only necessary to install four 7/16" bolts, one top and one
bottom, on each wing panel. Of course, when permanently installing the wings
all the bolts called-out on DWG 16 must be installed. With the main spar
bolted in place, the next step is to attach the rear spars. Level the
fuselage, both laterally and longitudinally, using the top surface of the
longerons as a datum surface as shown on DWG 38 Then square the wing with
the fuselage by measuring from corresponding points on the wing tips to a
common centerline point on the aft fuselage. The dimensions should be equal.
At the same time check that the wings have no forward or aft sweep by
dropping 4 plumb lines from the wing leading edges (2 on each wing at
inboard and outboard points). They should all fall in a straight line. When
the wing is squared, mark the position with a vertical line on both rear
spar and center section at the rear spar attach. Now the very important
incidence angle must be measured and set. Use a level and spacer blocks as
shown in DWG 38. Verify that the fuselage is level. Rest one end of a level
on the forward spar just forward of the skin butt join: and the other end on
a spacer placed directly over the rear spar web. Shift the rear of the wing
up or down to center the level. The spacer size has been calculated to
provide the desired incidence angle. Check several points along the span of
the wing to verify the level reading. Clamp the root in place and check the
other wing in the same manner. It is extremely important that there is at
least
5/8" from fastener center to the edge of the part, in both the rear spar and
F-705. If unable to maintain proper edge distance, call Van's Aircraft for
assistance before proceeding further. See DWG 38, Section G-G. After
checking and re-checking, drill the 5/16" hole for the attach bolt.
Initially drill an undersize hole starting with no more than a 1/4" drill.
Then progressively enlarge the hole to 5/16" to provide a close fit for an
AN5 bolt. A long stiff drill bit is a good idea because it can be held
straighter for a truer bole. The overlapping portions of the F-976 bottom
skin are screwed to the bottom of the wing when the wings are installed to
stay. Holes for these screws must be drilled now. Use the reference lines to
locate the hole positions. When the wing is removed, these holes are
countersunk for #8 screws and K1100-08 platenuts attached. Install the
ailerons. W-9I8 pushrods, and flaps.
FITTING THE FORWARD ATTACH BRACKETS
Make the F-996A Fuel Tank Attach Brackets shown on DWG 38 Bend the web of
the bracket so it fits to the fuselage side and to the T-905 angle bracket
on the fuel tank. Clamp the F-996A angle firmly to the T-905 bracket on the
fuel tank. Check to see that it rests firmly against the fuselage and drill
the bolt boles from inside the fuselage. After the F-996A is bolted, at
least temporarily, to the fuselage, the clamp can be removed. Locate the
center of the 1/4" hole on the flange of the angle. Double check to be sure
you have sufficient edge distance on both T-9O5 and F-996A. Drill the 1/4"
hole through T-905. Finish the bracket installation after the wings are
removed by installing the nutplate on T-905 as shown in DWG 38 Section E-E.
Note the orientation of the nutplate. It is important.
THE FLAP ASSEMBLY
Assemble VA-256 flap pushrods as shown on DWG 33. Bolt the VA-256 to both
the flaps and the Wd-605EF flap control weldment. Rob a battery from your
car or lawn tractor and connect it to the flap motor. Run the motor up and
down while checking for any possible interference in the flap linkage. The
hole in the fuselage skin may be enlarged as necessary to avoid interfering
with the pushrod.
WING ROOT FAIRINGS
Install the F-999 wing root fairings as shown on DWG 38, Wing Root Fairing
Installation Detail, and Section F-F. Note that the drawing shows both
bottom and top of the wing, as if they had been flattened into one plane.
INSTALLING THE CONTROL SYSTEM
Install the WD-610 control column, WD-611/WD-612 control sticks, and F-665
control column pushrod as shown on DWG 38. Use the W-930 bellcrank jig; to
hold the WD-421 bellcrank in its neutral position as shown on DWG 9. Install
and adjust the W-918 aileron- to-bellcrank pushrod such that the aileron is
in the neutral position (sec DWG 15) when the bellcrank is held in its
neutral position. Install and adjust the W-917 bellcrank-to-stick pushrod
such that the sticks are vertical when the bellcrank is held in its neutral
position.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Assembly Instructions |
> Albert,
> The more I look at this problem of spar spacing, the uglier it gets. I
> do not understand how the distance between spars can be different from
> one wing to the other. Everything on the wings fit beautifully, the
> skins have no gaps, the twist was no more than 1/64 inch.
> Apparently yours just slid right in? Did you ever check the dimensions
> or fit before mounting the wings?
> Gary Crowder
Gary, the text of the FAX is included after this note. When I built my
center section, I made some spacers the exact same thickness of the spars
and bolted them in between the front and rear center sections so that the
hole would be the same size as the wing spars but I never did a trial fit of
the wing spar into the center section during construction.
Albert
WING/FUSELAGE ASSEMBLY
During this phase of construction it is necessary to assemble the wings to
the fuselage for a number of reasons including drilling the rear spar/center
section attach, finishing the aileron and flap control mechanisms,
installing the wing tank/fuselage attach brackets, fabricating and fitting
fuel & vent lines, and installing the wing root fairings. If you are working
in a small shop it is acceptable to install, then remove one wing at a time.
MARKING THE SCREW HOLES
Before installing the wing, mark screw locations at each unused rivet space
on the bottom flange of the W-710 root rib on the outside of the W-704
bottom wing skin. Then mark a straight line from the hole location toward
the wing tip and make a measured mark 3" outboard from the intended screw
location. This will allow you to measure back to the same point on the
overlapping F 976 fuselage skin. If your wing tips have been permanently
attached to the wings and/or your shop dimensions are such that the aileron
pushrods cannot be inserted from the tips of the wings, the W-917 pushrods
must be loosely placed in the wing lightening holes from the root before the
wing panels are "plugged-in" to the fuselage. Installing the wing panels
should be very simple, as the spars have been fitted and drilled at the
factory. It is helpful to file a slight bevel on the root ends of the spar
to assist getting it started sliding through the slot in the fuselage
bulkhead, and to prevent it from scratching and galling the bulkhead bars as
it slides through. Support the inboard ends of the wings when inserting to
prevent the bottom of the spar from dragging along the inside of the
fuselage bottom skin. As the wings are pushed in near center, be sure that
the F-976 fuselage center bottom skin (which overhangs the fuselage) doesn't
catch on the wing skin.
FITTING THE WING PANELS
When bringing the wing panel into its exact position and lining up the bolt
holes in the bulkhead and spar, it is often helpful to use drift pins. These
are usually a disposable hardware store bolt with the end rounded or tapered
on a grinder. Gently driving this into a nearly aligned hole will center the
bulkhead/spar hole so that the bolts can be installed without excessive
force. Once the holes are aligned, use 7/16" and 1/4" hardware store bolts
for test fitting to prevent damage to the holes and NAS bolts, For fitting
purposes, it is only necessary to install four 7/16" bolts, one top and one
bottom, on each wing panel. Of course, when permanently installing the wings
all the bolts called-out on DWG 16 must be installed. With the main spar
bolted in place, the next step is to attach the rear spars. Level the
fuselage, both laterally and longitudinally, using the top surface of the
longerons as a datum surface as shown on DWG 38 Then square the wing with
the fuselage by measuring from corresponding points on the wing tips to a
common centerline point on the aft fuselage. The dimensions should be equal.
At the same time check that the wings have no forward or aft sweep by
dropping 4 plumb lines from the wing leading edges (2 on each wing at
inboard and outboard points). They should all fall in a straight line. When
the wing is squared, mark the position with a vertical line on both rear
spar and center section at the rear spar attach. Now the very important
incidence angle must be measured and set. Use a level and spacer blocks as
shown in DWG 38. Verify that the fuselage is level. Rest one end of a level
on the forward spar just forward of the skin butt join: and the other end on
a spacer placed directly over the rear spar web. Shift the rear of the wing
up or down to center the level. The spacer size has been calculated to
provide the desired incidence angle. Check several points along the span of
the wing to verify the level reading. Clamp the root in place and check the
other wing in the same manner. It is extremely important that there is at
least
5/8" from fastener center to the edge of the part, in both the rear spar and
F-705. If unable to maintain proper edge distance, call Van's Aircraft for
assistance before proceeding further. See DWG 38, Section G-G. After
checking and re-checking, drill the 5/16" hole for the attach bolt.
Initially drill an undersize hole starting with no more than a 1/4" drill.
Then progressively enlarge the hole to 5/16" to provide a close fit for an
AN5 bolt. A long stiff drill bit is a good idea because it can be held
straighter for a truer bole. The overlapping portions of the F-976 bottom
skin are screwed to the bottom of the wing when the wings are installed to
stay. Holes for these screws must be drilled now. Use the reference lines to
locate the hole positions. When the wing is removed, these holes are
countersunk for #8 screws and K1100-08 platenuts attached. Install the
ailerons. W-9I8 pushrods, and flaps.
FITTING THE FORWARD ATTACH BRACKETS
Make the F-996A Fuel Tank Attach Brackets shown on DWG 38 Bend the web of
the bracket so it fits to the fuselage side and to the T-905 angle bracket
on the fuel tank. Clamp the F-996A angle firmly to the T-905 bracket on the
fuel tank. Check to see that it rests firmly against the fuselage and drill
the bolt boles from inside the fuselage. After the F-996A is bolted, at
least temporarily, to the fuselage, the clamp can be removed. Locate the
center of the 1/4" hole on the flange of the angle. Double check to be sure
you have sufficient edge distance on both T-9O5 and F-996A. Drill the 1/4"
hole through T-905. Finish the bracket installation after the wings are
removed by installing the nutplate on T-905 as shown in DWG 38 Section E-E.
Note the orientation of the nutplate. It is important.
THE FLAP ASSEMBLY
Assemble VA-256 flap pushrods as shown on DWG 33. Bolt the VA-256 to both
the flaps and the Wd-605EF flap control weldment. Rob a battery from your
car or lawn tractor and connect it to the flap motor. Run the motor up and
down while checking for any possible interference in the flap linkage. The
hole in the fuselage skin may be enlarged as necessary to avoid interfering
with the pushrod.
WING ROOT FAIRINGS
Install the F-999 wing root fairings as shown on DWG 38, Wing Root Fairing
Installation Detail, and Section F-F. Note that the drawing shows both
bottom and top of the wing, as if they had been flattened into one plane.
INSTALLING THE CONTROL SYSTEM
Install the WD-610 control column, WD-611/WD-612 control sticks, and F-665
control column pushrod as shown on DWG 38. Use the W-930 bellcrank jig; to
hold the WD-421 bellcrank in its neutral position as shown on DWG 9. Install
and adjust the W-918 aileron- to-bellcrank pushrod such that the aileron is
in the neutral position (sec DWG 15) when the bellcrank is held in its
neutral position. Install and adjust the W-917 bellcrank-to-stick pushrod
such that the sticks are vertical when the bellcrank is held in its neutral
position.
rear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar spacing |
Thanks, Albert. It is nice to have some info on putting the wings on.
Just so there is no confusion, the mismatch I am talking about is not
the distance between the front spar bulkheads. I made the spacers you
mention, and that came out right on. The problem is that the right wing
has a further distance between the root ends of the front and rear spars
than the left wing. The left wing fits the fuselage fine.
Thanks again for the help, and the missing instructions.
Gary Crowder
From: Albert Gardner
> Albert,
> The more I look at this problem of spar spacing, the uglier it gets.
I
> do not understand how the distance between spars can be different
from
> one wing to the other. Everything on the wings fit beautifully, the
> skins have no gaps, the twist was no more than 1/64 inch.
> Apparently yours just slid right in? Did you ever check the
dimensions
> or fit before mounting the wings?
> Gary Crowder
Gary, the text of the FAX is included after this note. When I built
my
center section, I made some spacers the exact same thickness of the
spars
and bolted them in between the front and rear center sections so that
the
hole would be the same size as the wing spars but I never did a trial
fit of
the wing spar into the center section during construction.
Albert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | QuickBuild Constructin Order |
If you are a QuickBuilder, have you figured out the order of assembly
operations for the fuselage? Van's does not have such a list for the -9.
They used to have one for the -6, but it is no longer mailed out.
PS: I just finished installing the Duckworth lights and am really
impressed by the quality of the assembly instructions. I wish Van's
Construction Manual were so well written. However, if I could do this
over, I would probably choose the wing tip lights described on the
website: http://vondane.com/rv8a/landlightkit/
Leland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Hi Dave,
My A.I. tells me that the hole that your putting safety wire or cotter pins
in needs to be 2/3 filled by whatever you put in there as a safety device.
Dennis Thomas
wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gene(at)nvaircraft.com |
| Subject: | Wing/Fuselage Assembly Instructions |
Thanks for the dog pics, very nice Boxer!!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar spacing |
Hey Gary, dont you have a big hammer in that shop of yours?
Kevin
> Thanks, Albert. It is nice to have some info on putting the wings on.
>
> Just so there is no confusion, the mismatch I am talking about is not
> the distance between the front spar bulkheads. I made the spacers you
> mention, and that came out right on. The problem is that the right wing
> has a further distance between the root ends of the front and rear spars
> than the left wing. The left wing fits the fuselage fine.
>
> Thanks again for the help, and the missing instructions.
>
> Gary Crowder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: QuickBuild Constructin Order |
Leland - I am a QB9 builder though only recently beyond the emp.
My situation is also complicated by the fact that my QB wings were destroyed
in shipping, so I am working on the fuse.
My approach has been to start at the beginning - well not quite - and just
put a tick if the task has already been done. You find you are dipping in
and out. The first task I did was in fact the rudder pedals & brace. This
should work except in my case it will become complicated when they say 'now
attach the wings'.
Do you see anything wrong with that?
Regards, Steve.
#90360
N Yorks, UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leland & Anne" <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV9-List: QuickBuild Constructin Order
>
> If you are a QuickBuilder, have you figured out the order of assembly
> operations for the fuselage? Van's does not have such a list for the -9.
> They used to have one for the -6, but it is no longer mailed out.
>
> PS: I just finished installing the Duckworth lights and am really
> impressed by the quality of the assembly instructions. I wish Van's
> Construction Manual were so well written. However, if I could do this
> over, I would probably choose the wing tip lights described on the
> website: http://vondane.com/rv8a/landlightkit/
>
> Leland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar spacing |
Hey, Kevin, thanks for the reply......someone IS more interested in
fitting wings than what size safety wire to use! (Sorry, couldn't
resist. I didn't know what size safety wire to use either.)
Actually, Kevin, that is almost what Van's said. They said that much
variation is not surprizing, and that it would probably go together with
just a little finger pressure on the rear carrythrough to get it
started. That much preload on the rear spar would not be a problem.
I'll forget about it till I fit the wings.
Gary
Hey Gary, dont you have a big hammer in that shop of yours?
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar spacing |
Gary
I had to thump on mine a little to get them in, it was no big deal, there is
room for flexibility in the rear spar area. All it really does is hold the
proper washout incedence.
As far as safety wire goes, just use the small stuff (041) on small bolts and
the bigger stuff (032) on big bolts. The only 032 you will probably need is
on your prop bolts.
The biggest problem I had getting my wings on was being careless when I
painted the cockpit and getting overspray inside the main spar bolt holes. It
took me two nights of cussing and bloody knuckles to put in 8 bolts. Some of
them you have to run the nut on by turning the bolt because there is no way
to turn the nut on those bottom spar bolts.
> Hey, Kevin, thanks for the reply......someone IS more interested in
> fitting wings than what size safety wire to use! (Sorry, couldn't
> resist. I didn't know what size safety wire to use either.)
>
> Actually, Kevin, that is almost what Van's said. They said that much
> variation is not surprizing, and that it would probably go together with
> just a little finger pressure on the rear carrythrough to get it
> started. That much preload on the rear spar would not be a problem.
> I'll forget about it till I fit the wings.
>
> Gary
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar spacing |
Oops, just read my last reply over, .041 is bigger than .032 isnt it. Well
you get the idea. Its been a long day. Must have been thinking of drill bits
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar spacing |
Your safety wire info is backward. You only use 0.041 for props and
turnbuckles. For most everything else you use 0.032
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Wing spar spacing
Gary
I had to thump on mine a little to get them in, it was no big deal, there is
room for flexibility in the rear spar area. All it really does is hold the
proper washout incedence.
As far as safety wire goes, just use the small stuff (041) on small bolts
and
the bigger stuff (032) on big bolts. The only 032 you will probably need is
on your prop bolts.
The biggest problem I had getting my wings on was being careless when I
painted the cockpit and getting overspray inside the main spar bolt holes.
It
took me two nights of cussing and bloody knuckles to put in 8 bolts. Some of
them you have to run the nut on by turning the bolt because there is no way
to turn the nut on those bottom spar bolts.
> Hey, Kevin, thanks for the reply......someone IS more interested in
> fitting wings than what size safety wire to use! (Sorry, couldn't
> resist. I didn't know what size safety wire to use either.)
>
> Actually, Kevin, that is almost what Van's said. They said that much
> variation is not surprizing, and that it would probably go together with
> just a little finger pressure on the rear carrythrough to get it
> started. That much preload on the rear spar would not be a problem.
> I'll forget about it till I fit the wings.
>
> Gary
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank" <fscorpio(at)softcom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/02 |
'RV9-List Digest Server' wrote:=0A=0A- *
- RV9-List Digest Archive
- ---
- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/14/02: 6
-
-
-
_______
- From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
- Subject: Re: ...'=0A=0A=0A> Take a look to the attachment. =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar spacing |
I noticed I was dislexic there too, Cy. Its a good thing we have you to
monitor our transmissions and proofread our emails. We all feel much safer
now.
Kevin Shannon
> Your safety wire info is backward. You only use 0.041 for props and
> turnbuckles. For most everything else you use 0.032
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Oh, man did I just find a great tool, and no its not that one we have all
been yanking on since age 14, its even better. go to www.yardstore.com and
look at the 3/8 x 13 belt sander PN#12106. I just got mine today, miniature
belt sander that will shape wood or composites like frosting a cake with a
butterknife, or put in a fine grade belt and deburr the edges of long
aluminumn sheets in seconds.
DISCLAIMER:
Cy Galley is probably yanking on HIS favorite tool right now, so I expect a
prompt rebuttal.
KEVIN SHANNON
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom" <treed(at)cinci.rr.com> |
Group,
Am preparing PVC conduit runs in the wings and therefore placement of
pitot, etc. I'm intending to use the Gretz heated system. Would prefer
to mount the pitot in last outboard bay since the AOA and landing light
are going there and access and conduit access will be way better. I know
most folks are going at least one more bay outboard than the plans
anyway. Anyone see any issues with this? I searched the archives and
found a few hints but no specifics.
Thanks,
Tom Reed
RV9A N91TR
Emp done, wings slowly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Placement |
That should work out OK, but will require more tubing and longer wire runs.
Just be sure you use a reasonable size wire for the heater considering the
length. There's a chart in the std handbook (and a copy in the plans) that
will help you select the wire size.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Brandvold" <jbrandv(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | fiberglass elevator tips |
We are working on the fiberglass tips for the elevators. We can't find
much in the manual or the
drawings to guide us. Do we cut off the tip flanges so that they only
go in as far as the rib
flange or do we relieve them for each rivet/flute? It looks like there
is a scribe mark on the tip
at about the right place.
Finishing up the empennage
Jim Brandvold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | fiberglass elevator tips |
Hello Jim,
You will need to cut them back pretty close to the scribe line that you
mention. This should be very close to lining up with the edge of the
ribs. You might want to leave the scribe when you trim and test fit from
there. You should be very close to getting the edge of the skin to line
up with the joggle on the fiberglass. You can double check the scribe
location before you cut by measuring the skin overhang from the ribs and
the offset from the joggle to the scribe - they should be pretty close.
After you dimple the skin, you'll need to countersink the fiberglass so
that it sits tight against the top skin.
Good Luck,
Todd Houg
N194TH (reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brandvold [SMTP:jbrandv(at)worldnet.att.net]
Subject: RV9-List: fiberglass elevator tips
We are working on the fiberglass tips for the elevators. We can't find
much in the manual or the
drawings to guide us. Do we cut off the tip flanges so that they only
go in as far as the rib
flange or do we relieve them for each rivet/flute? It looks like there
is a scribe mark on the tip
at about the right place.
Finishing up the empennage
Jim Brandvold
=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Wheatley <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 02/16/02 |
>You got it wrong, man- you're sposed to get someone ELSE to yank yer tool for
>you. One other tool from the Yard that's worth yanking out of your toolbox is
>the $39 pneumatic cleco pliers they sell. I just ordered one.
Ed,
Have you personal experience of using this tool, may I ask? I've found the
standard cleco pliers I bought from Avery frustrating to use -- I keep
wishing they were sprung, so would spring back to the "open" position by
default. Air driven sounds better, but how easy are they to us?
Malcolm Wheatley
RV-9 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Uh-oh, I just discovered a major boo-boo. I thought I was replying to Gary
about the cool tool thing, I did not realize that post went out to the entire
world.
My apologies, Cy, but ya gotta admit I said the same thing you did about
safety wire, use the big stuff on your prop and the small stuff every where
else.
The tool I referred to as being yanked upon was my 3/8 rachet.
I do not know what Cy's favorite tool is.
Humbly submitted;
Kevin Shannon, who hereby promises to stay away from his computer after
consuming mass budweisers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Belated List of Contributors #2... |
Dear Listers,
I'd like to apologize for the delay in posting the 2001 List of
Contributors Number 2, as well as getting behind in the List Photo
Shares. Here's my sad story... Over the Christmas holidays, I was working
out in the shop on a rotating drum sander. I was sanding out the woofer
hole in a speaker enclosure and, long story short, the part got away from
me and started spinning like a Hula hoop on the drum. Rather than just
turning the machine off like I should have done, I tried to grab the part
and in the process badly broke the ring fingers on *both* my right and left
hands!! I had to go in for surgery on the left hand because of the joint
damage and was stuck in a thing called an "external fixator" for almost 4
weeks. The right hand has healed up well, but the left one is very stiff
and I'm currently only getting about 70 degrees of bend. The doctor says
that I will get 80-90% of the moment back with a great deal of therapy and
I'm going to hold them to that...
The moral of the story is that even a sander can be a dangerous tool. I
had been working with a table saw, drill press, scroll saw, and high power
routers all day long and afforded them all the respect they deserved. But
with the sander, I never even thought about how things could go bad. It
just didn't seem like a dangerous tool. Be careful out there in the
shop. In a moment you can hurt yourself; hurt yourself in such a way that
you will have to live with the damage the rest of your life. Nothing is
worth that.
I'm finally back working on the computer and getting back to email and
other stuff. Later today I will be processing the mound of Photo Shares
that have backed up while I was out. I also just finished up the 2001 List
Contributions and have included the List Number 2 below.
I want to thank everyone that has so generously contributed to the List
this past year! It is your Contributions that make these Lists possible.
I understand that the Van's Videos from the Builder's Bookstore should be
shipping very soon if not already, and the discount coupons from Brown
Tools should already have arrived. Thanks again to Andy Gold and Michael
Brown for their generous support of the Lists this year with these giveaways!
Oh, and now that my fingers are working pretty well again, I've decided to
go ahead and finish my RV-4!! I had a LOT of guilt over wanting to sell
it... :-)
Happy Building and Flying!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Alexander, Don
Alexander, George
Andrews, Jim
Anonymous
Blake, James
Bowman, John
Buryl, Hill
Butler, Sherman
Cantrell, Jimmy
DeRuiter, Marcel
Deffner, David
Graumlich, Tom
Griffin, Randy
Harbour, Keith
Hunt, Robin
Jannon, Terence
Johnson, Jackie
Kahn, Steve
Labhart, Norm
Laird, David
Larson, Joe
Licking, Larry
Maynard, Brad
Navratil, Richard
Noonan, Thomas
Petersen, Paul
Reed, Gary
Rogers, Ken
Salter, Phillip
Schmit, John
Schultz, David
Sheffield, Ray
Smith, Edmond
Staley, Dick
Utterback, Tom
Uvanni, Bruce
Williams, Henry
Wilson, Robert
Woodward, Don
Worthington, Victor
Zirges, Malcom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bob Haan ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bob Haan
Subject: New WigWag II
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bhaan@easystreet.com.02.17.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ John Reuterskiold ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: John Reuterskiold
Subject: RV7 Bag-Parts Database
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mtnflyr@attglobal.net.02.17.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ JT Garner ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: JT Garner
Subject: Landing Light Hole
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jtgarner@shentel.net.02.17.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pnumatic Cleco Pliers |
I've been using the pneumatic cleco pliers (purchased on ebay) mentioned
(available from the Yard) for several months now with great success.
You can load it very easily by just "laying" in the cleco, and when you
squeeze the trigger, you get full retraction of the cleco, making insertion
much easier.
After extracting a cleco, you can simply release the trigger and "shake" the
cleco into a container, one-handed, or catch them in you free hand.
The only downside is the need for the air-line connection.
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Thinking about a -9A |
I've purchased the preview plans, and I think I can do this, with a QB of
course. But before I take the plunge, I have a few questions. Thanks in
advance for any advice.
1) In addition to the obvious, engine, instruments, radios, upholstery,
etc., what DOESN'T come with the kit that is necessary? I'm thinking of
things like pitot/static system, brakes for right seat, cabin heat/fresh air
system, gascolator, and a million other things I haven't thought of. I see
these items for sale in the accessory catalog, and "assume" they are not
included?
2) I want my -9A to be IFR, and intend to install an electric AI in
addition to the vacuum one. What size and position would you recommend?
3) Panel space seems to be limited. Are the all inclusive electronic
gauges worth the extra cost in weight and space? I'm leary of them, if one
fails, they all fail.
4) What are you guys doing for lighting (position, anti-col, landing and
taxi? Van's seems to offer options for tail mounted or wing mounted. Is
one better than the other? Or simply preference?
5) Antennae: Will need VHF, VOR/GS/LOC, Marker, Transponder, ELT. What
are the best alternatives to keep a minimum out of the slip stream? any/all
of these available internally in a metal airplane?
I'm sure I'll have a million more questions before I plop down my $, so
please bear (bare?) with me.
Dutch
Edmond, OK
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kenneth condrell" <drkencondrell(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about a -9A |
Hi Dutch,
Ever since I went to Oshkosk this past summer, I have been planning to build
a QB RV9A. I had a demo ride and I'm sold that this is the plane for me. I
have owned a mooney and a Cessna 182 in the past. I also have had a lot of
questions and have been doing some research. The new options kit for the
engine, provides all the parts you will need for the engine installation.
This new option will save money and a ton of time ordering all these parts
one by one. See Van's web site for more information. Gulf Avionics in
Florida can do all the cables for your avionics. Try watching on cable the
Wings Discovery Channel on Sunday evenings , 8:30 pm Eastern Standard Time.
They are building an RV. This program is called from the ground up and it
is very helpful. The February issue of EAA's Sport Aviation has an ad
regarding this program which is now recorded on video tapes. Look at page
106. The set sells for $79.99. Order by calling 800 843 3612. I also plan
to attend an RV workshop sponsered by EAA. See page 92 of the same magazine
for details. Also...........Vansaircraft is very helpful answering the
kinds of questions you have. Hope this helps.
Ken Condrell
drkencondrell(at)worldnet.att.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Thinking about a -9A
>
> I've purchased the preview plans, and I think I can do this, with a QB of
> course. But before I take the plunge, I have a few questions. Thanks in
> advance for any advice.
>
> 1) In addition to the obvious, engine, instruments, radios, upholstery,
> etc., what DOESN'T come with the kit that is necessary? I'm thinking of
> things like pitot/static system, brakes for right seat, cabin heat/fresh
air
> system, gascolator, and a million other things I haven't thought of. I
see
> these items for sale in the accessory catalog, and "assume" they are not
> included?
>
> 2) I want my -9A to be IFR, and intend to install an electric AI in
> addition to the vacuum one. What size and position would you recommend?
>
> 3) Panel space seems to be limited. Are the all inclusive electronic
> gauges worth the extra cost in weight and space? I'm leary of them, if
one
> fails, they all fail.
>
> 4) What are you guys doing for lighting (position, anti-col, landing and
> taxi? Van's seems to offer options for tail mounted or wing mounted. Is
> one better than the other? Or simply preference?
>
> 5) Antennae: Will need VHF, VOR/GS/LOC, Marker, Transponder, ELT. What
> are the best alternatives to keep a minimum out of the slip stream?
any/all
> of these available internally in a metal airplane?
>
> I'm sure I'll have a million more questions before I plop down my $, so
> please bear (bare?) with me.
>
> Dutch
> Edmond, OK
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System |
Has anyone considered a Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System
for an RV with a Subaru Engine?
Is there a way to mount two alternators on the Subaru?
With Electronic Ignition and Electric Fuel Pumps, it seems like it might
be a good idea.
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System |
Dual Battery - Yes
Dual Alternators - No From what I hear, no place to mount another one.
Wire engine ECU and one fuel pump to a hard wire bypass to backup battery.
Wire main feed to the dual feed point on the electrical panel.
With an electrical failure like an alternator, Start searching for level
ground.
Larry Perryman
90288
Sub shipping in march.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System
|
| Has anyone considered a Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System
| for an RV with a Subaru Engine?
|
| Is there a way to mount two alternators on the Subaru?
|
| With Electronic Ignition and Electric Fuel Pumps, it seems like it might
| be a good idea.
|
| Dave
| 90347
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System |
Dave, You should check into the SubaruAircraft newsgroup on yahoo, or go to
www.subaruaircraft.com. The ControlVision EXP-II dual-bus, with dual
batteries, pumps, etc. is used on many Subaru equipped aircraft. I am in the
process of wiring up mine now. You could mount a second alternator, but it's
not a major concern with the dual batteries since they can keep you going for
nearly an hour after a failed alternator. If it takes you an hour to find a
place to land I question what you're doing so far out to sea anyway! If
you're really paranoid, you could run one of the dual ignition units too. And
if you're super freekin paranoid, a chute has been known to work! Seriously,
the Subaru is a nice competitive motor. There are now over 30 RV9's being built
with them.
Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about a -9A |
Wow Dutch,,, you might have more luck fishing for answers if you break
your bait into smaller pieces. I'll have a go at some answers since nobody
else has yet.
> 1) What DOESN'T come with the kit that is necessary?
The operative word here is "necessary". You can get by with a motor package,
prop, basic VFR instruments, a handheld Comm radio, ELT, and a pillow to
sit on if that's what you have in mind. The level of detail that goes into
each
plane is as different as the builder. What you get with the kit is a basic
airframe.
Anything that runs on fuel or electricity is up to you to provide. I could
provide
a very detailed list of items, but the best way to answer this is to suggest
that
an RV9 can be built for as little as $38K to an estimated average of $55K and
an estimated $70K for a fully equipped IFR bird (and unlimited for guys with
more money than sense). You will do well to avoid looking at all the used
birds
you could have owned, and keep reminding yourself what new ones cost.
> 2) ...to be IFR,,,, to install an electric AI....
You'll have to be more specific. There are dozens of "electric AI's" out there.
I'll combine this one with your next question.
> 3) Panel space... limited. Are electronic gauges worth... ...they all
fail.
Whether you trust modern avionics is your call. Steam guages are still
in style! Personally, I will be flying a Blue Mountain EFIS with an Apollo
IFR stack. I'm sure there's about a million transistors in these babies, and
I trust every one of them. Actually, I trust them because I also have the
primary six conventional instruments as backups, and fully redundant
electrical systems. Short of flying in a tornado at night, I'm pretty sure I
can fly
the plane with most any instrument failure, and I'll bet the conventional ones
go long before the modern ones. Again, this is your call to make. There
is no question that modern equipment offers the pilot a huge set of
capabilities, but a basic set of backups is nice to have and is recommended
by EFIS manufacturers. ...and yes, it all fits in the panel with some
creativity.
> 4) What are you guys doing for lighting
If you want to fly at night, you'll need
a full set of lights. The 9 has wingtip position and strobes, with a tail
position
and strobe. Several options exist out there for landing lights. I think a
taxi
light is overkill.
> 5) Antennae: What are the best ones?
You can use standard style antennae, or hide them in the wingtips. Both
types are available and both have proven to work fine. Typically Comant
antennae are used, or Bob Archer for wingtip ones, but there's a variety
of options.
> I'm sure I'll have a million more questions before I plop down my $, so
> please bear (bare?) with me.
Dutch, It sounds to me like you've got a typical case of hesitation like
most first time builders do. Get over it and join the fun! I suggest you
order an Aircraft Spruce catalog www.aircraftspruce.com and thumb
through it page by page making a list of obvious things that you would
like which are not "airframe". Vans kits are great quality, and quite
complete, particularly if you go with a quick-build.
...and a polite hint,,, please try to focus on one or two questions at
a time. We're all here to help, but we've also got riveting to do!
Get that kit!!!
Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
RV9-List Digest List
| From: | Malcolm Wheatley <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: RE: Pneumatic cloco pliers |
Thanks Dave,
That is extremely useful information.
Malcolm
RV-9 empennage
>From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
>Subject: RV9-List: Re: Pnumatic Cleco Pliers
>
>
>I've been using the pneumatic cleco pliers (purchased on ebay) mentioned
>(available from the Yard) for several months now with great success.
>
>You can load it very easily by just "laying" in the cleco, and when you
>squeeze the trigger, you get full retraction of the cleco, making insertion
>much easier.
>
>After extracting a cleco, you can simply release the trigger and "shake" the
>cleco into a container, one-handed, or catch them in you free hand.
>
>The only downside is the need for the air-line connection.
>
>Dave
>90347
Malcolm Wheatley
Freelance Writer & Editor
Newhouse Farm
Sherford
Kingsbridge
Devon
TQ7 2BG
U.K.
+44 (0)1548 531022
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Burl Nelson" <AIRPILOT(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about a -9A |
The 9A is a sport plane not a SPACE SHIP.
Burl
N9XV
----- Original Message -----
From: Dutch Revenboer <n507aa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Thinking about a -9A
>
> I've purchased the preview plans, and I think I can do this, with a QB of
> course. But before I take the plunge, I have a few questions. Thanks in
> advance for any advice.
>
> 1) In addition to the obvious, engine, instruments, radios, upholstery,
> etc., what DOESN'T come with the kit that is necessary? I'm thinking of
> things like pitot/static system, brakes for right seat, cabin heat/fresh
air
> system, gascolator, and a million other things I haven't thought of. I
see
> these items for sale in the accessory catalog, and "assume" they are not
> included?
>
> 2) I want my -9A to be IFR, and intend to install an electric AI in
> addition to the vacuum one. What size and position would you recommend?
>
> 3) Panel space seems to be limited. Are the all inclusive electronic
> gauges worth the extra cost in weight and space? I'm leary of them, if
one
> fails, they all fail.
>
> 4) What are you guys doing for lighting (position, anti-col, landing and
> taxi? Van's seems to offer options for tail mounted or wing mounted. Is
> one better than the other? Or simply preference?
>
> 5) Antennae: Will need VHF, VOR/GS/LOC, Marker, Transponder, ELT. What
> are the best alternatives to keep a minimum out of the slip stream?
any/all
> of these available internally in a metal airplane?
>
> I'm sure I'll have a million more questions before I plop down my $, so
> please bear (bare?) with me.
>
> Dutch
> Edmond, OK
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System |
I understand it is quite difficult to get the Canopy open in flight (Tip or
Slide), so perhaps an Ejection Seat should be purchased along with the
chute. :-)
I posted the same question on the SabaruAircraft Newsgroup and Jan indicated
they originally had two Alternators, but went back to just one with a Dual
Battery System for the reasons you stated.
Dave
90347 (one of the "over 30 RV9's being built with a Subaru")
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Dual Alternator, Dual Battery Electrical System
>
> Dave, You should check into the SubaruAircraft newsgroup on yahoo, or go
to
> www.subaruaircraft.com. The ControlVision EXP-II dual-bus, with dual
> batteries, pumps, etc. is used on many Subaru equipped aircraft. I am in
the
> process of wiring up mine now. You could mount a second alternator, but
it's
> not a major concern with the dual batteries since they can keep you going
for
> nearly an hour after a failed alternator. If it takes you an hour to
find a
> place to land I question what you're doing so far out to sea anyway! If
> you're really paranoid, you could run one of the dual ignition units too.
And
> if you're super freekin paranoid, a chute has been known to work!
Seriously,
> the Subaru is a nice competitive motor. There are now over 30 RV9's being
built
> with them.
>
> Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Eggenfellner Subaru RV9A nose gear leg |
| From: | Victor Cordero <vcordero(at)juno.com> |
Folks,
For those of you who have the Eggenfellner Subaru RV9A and have ordered the Finishing
Kit from Vans,
do you order the Nose Gear Leg "with or without" the hole pre-drilled?
The engine mount on Jan's engine package comes with an alignment hole for the nose
gear leg. Do I order the nose gear leg "undrilled" and then I drill the hole
OR let Van's drill the nose gear leg hole and I match it up to Jan's engine
mount hole???
thx,
Victor from Long Island, NY
QB RV9A #90319
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about a -9A |
Not a spaceship? Say it ain't so! Now what am I going to do with this
anti-gravity-warp-core, plasma inversion coupler, quantum phase crystals, and
spandex suit? Sheeeeit. Yer wreckin my jollies....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about a -9A |
Oh you guys,,,,,,,,,,,,,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner Subaru RV9A nose gear leg |
Victor, finally going to mount that motor on something with wings eh?
I've watched the video a bunch of times to hear your engine run!
The nose gear leg comes un-drilled. In fact, I doubt you could get them to
drill it for you. When you order your finish kit just say "it's another
Eggenfellner package". We've beat the requirements into them by now,
so they know exactly what you need with regards to legs, cowling, etc.
Jan has posted the exact part number details in the newsgroup if you
want to be sure. Or I can send it to you if you don't find it. This note
probably should have been directed at the subaruaircraft newsgroup,
but with the growing force of 9'ers going this route, I guess this works
too.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner Subaru RV9A nose gear leg |
Victor,
Van's told me the Nose Gear Leg is Match Drilled to the Motor Mount in their
shop before shipment.
Since the Subaru doesn't require Van's Motor Mount, there won't be any
drilling.
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Eggenfellner Subaru RV9A nose gear leg
>
> Victor, finally going to mount that motor on something with wings eh?
> I've watched the video a bunch of times to hear your engine run!
> The nose gear leg comes un-drilled. In fact, I doubt you could get them
to
> drill it for you. When you order your finish kit just say "it's another
> Eggenfellner package". We've beat the requirements into them by now,
> so they know exactly what you need with regards to legs, cowling, etc.
> Jan has posted the exact part number details in the newsgroup if you
> want to be sure. Or I can send it to you if you don't find it. This
note
> probably should have been directed at the subaruaircraft newsgroup,
> but with the growing force of 9'ers going this route, I guess this works
> too.
>
> Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Burl Nelson" <AIRPILOT(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about a -9A |
Gary: You and I are Aviation professionals, but when you have a new born
aviation enthusiast it may be wise for hem/her to stay with Vans Plan, (you
know KISS). And then their jollies may become a completed dream of a life
time.
Burl
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Newsted <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Thinking about a -9A
>
> Not a spaceship? Say it ain't so! Now what am I going to do with this
> anti-gravity-warp-core, plasma inversion coupler, quantum phase crystals,
and
> spandex suit? Sheeeeit. Yer wreckin my jollies....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about a -9A |
I resent you guys using my name...JOLLY...Grrrrr.{:~)....jolly in aurora...and
..btw, if you know any one who is looking for a 98-99% completed RV8A...please
let them/me know....HO HO HO!....jolly in aurora, or.
Burl Nelson wrote:
>
> Gary: You and I are Aviation professionals, but when you have a new born
> aviation enthusiast it may be wise for hem/her to stay with Vans Plan, (you
> know KISS). And then their jollies may become a completed dream of a life
> time.
> Burl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Newsted <fcs(at)jlc.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Thinking about a -9A
>
> >
> > Not a spaceship? Say it ain't so! Now what am I going to do with this
> > anti-gravity-warp-core, plasma inversion coupler, quantum phase crystals,
> and
> > spandex suit? Sheeeeit. Yer wreckin my jollies....
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
I just wanted to take a second to tank everyone for all the great info comming
along every day here...
This last weekend I was able to get my tanks up to the point of everything sealed
except the rear baffle... WOW what a job that was!
My thoughts after going through it include...
Proseal isn't that bad... Laquer thinner is!
Tank sealing is more tedious than hard really.
Cleanup is the key to making the job fairly easy.
Some of the ideas I gleaned from the various lists and people:
Use 60cc syrenges with drilled out tips to shoot proseal where ever you need it.
Get auto shop paper towls from the parts store and cut them up in 3 inch squares.
A bucket of a couple hundred of them soaked in laquer thinner are just right
for the millions of small cleanup jobs while working on the tanks.
Lot's of gloves. I found that I only had to replace them when they tore as the
laquer thinner would clean proseal off them just fine.
20 or so popsicle sticks from the craft store made great work of smoothing out
the beads of proseal.
I mixed by volume as I didn't have the scale. It worked great for me. I used 1/3
cup part A to 1 1/4 tsp part B for my large batches. This was enough to seal
all 5 interior ribs if you worked fast.
I mixed 1 Tbsp to 1/4 tsp for small batches like end ribs etc.
Cleanup the cups with laquer thinner again...
Use lot's of scotch removable tape (rivet tape). It's the blue box at staples.
Strangly enough the proseal didn't smell that bad while working on it. I was more
taken out by the solvents. Was using a respirator for some of it also. However
once the job was done... The next morning man did it smell like proseal in
the garage! I still don't think I could compare it to Gary's cat ordeal!
Lastly thanks for all the tool tips on tubing. I got the Rotoflare (from Cleveland
tools) and a basic 2 handled bender from Lowes, along with a basic tubing
cutter. Followed all the advice about oiling the flare, cleaning the burrs, doing
the bends etc... and man those shop built fuel pickups came out looking very
nice. It was very satisfying to build those small parts!
Also, I was able to close the end of the tube nicely by using a triangular chainsaw
file to saw crossing v-grooves in the end of the tube. You file until you
end up with 4 pointed triangles left on the tip, then carefully bend in and roll
over the 4 points until they nicely close up into and sealed end. It's really
cool, you got to try it!
Well, that's it for my report, time to go back to reading and building...
- Andy Karmy
RV9A - Wings (Tanks to be specific)
Seattle, WA
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks (Fuel Tanks) |
>
>Did you consider the "two-step" method of sealing your tanks that was
>recently discussed on the main RV list? You seal the tanks first and hold
>everything together with clecoes, then go back and put in the rivets a week
>later. I'm very tempted to try it. It seems like it would be less of a mess.
>
>Mark Schrimmer
>Almost ready to seal the tanks
>Irvine, CA
You bet I considered that option... I looked long and hard at it, however after
reading messages from Scott McDaniels in the RVlist archives I just couldn't
bring myself to stray from the tried and true. I know the arguments are that they
are tried and true also in other projects, however this seems to work well
for the RV crowd... I like to keep the expierementation factor low in my expieremental
airplane. :)
By using my small squares of laquer thinner I was able to simply wipe off each
cleco as I went along and couldn't imagine why some people talked about throwing
away cleco's and leaving them with hardened proseal on them.
I also found that until I riveted, the skins and ribs wouldn't completely come
together with just the cleco's. It's just thick stuff.
Also, one other thing I forgot in my initial report, was that I was doing my prosealing
at about 48-50 degrees in the shop to extend the work time of the mixed
up sealant. Seemed to work fine as I was able to use a batch as long as 3 hours.
I'm not sure how you could do much in 45 min as some indicate they have.
I guess that's why I don't live in Florida!
--
Andy Karmy
andy(at)karmy.com
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks (Fuel Tanks) |
Mark.......that might be worth a try, if you can spread it fairly thin
and even, and work in cool temperatures like Andy. But I'd say rivet
the next day, while the Goo is still soft, but not smeary. Or I think
it would be. It seems like it took quite a few days for my Proseal to
harden up much. You may have trouble getting the fillets in the corners
of the end baffles.
My main fear would be that your rivets would pull depressions into the
skin. The ribs determine how smooth the skin turns out, so if there is
something rubbery in between........
Andy is right, the smell is worst for many days after, not so bad while
you are reveling in putting it on.
Did you consider the "two-step" method of sealing your tanks that was
recently discussed on the main RV list? You seal the tanks first and
hold
everything together with clecoes, then go back and put in the rivets a
week
later. I'm very tempted to try it. It seems like it would be less of a
mess.
Mark Schrimmer
Almost ready to seal the tanks
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks (Fuel Tanks) |
Wouldn't you still need to dunk the rivet in fresh proseal during final
assembly? This is the messiest part.
Kevin
>
> Mark.......that might be worth a try, if you can spread it fairly thin
> and even, and work in cool temperatures like Andy. But I'd say rivet
> the next day, while the Goo is still soft, but not smeary. Or I think
> it would be. It seems like it took quite a few days for my Proseal to
> harden up much. You may have trouble getting the fillets in the corners
> of the end baffles.
>
> My main fear would be that your rivets would pull depressions into the
> skin. The ribs determine how smooth the skin turns out, so if there is
> something rubbery in between........
>
> Andy is right, the smell is worst for many days after, not so bad while
> you are reveling in putting it on.
>
>
> Did you consider the "two-step" method of sealing your tanks that was
> recently discussed on the main RV list? You seal the tanks first and
> hold
> everything together with clecoes, then go back and put in the rivets a
> week
> later. I'm very tempted to try it. It seems like it would be less of a
> mess.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> Almost ready to seal the tanks
> Irvine, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks (Fuel Tanks) |
I also did mine the tried and true way and had no real problems. I kept
a metal dish with lacquer thinner, or sometimes acetone in it to drop
the dirty clecos into. At the end of the day, I wiped them off and
exercised the springs one at a time. I have used them many times since
and had no problems.
Batches of goo not a problem, just mix enough for 2 or three ribs at a
time. I used a small postal scale with a piece of cardboard to mix on.
1 set the cardboard on, zero the digital scale
2. glob on some of the white stuff
3. Take scale reading, for example 49 grams
4. Add 10% black hardener, in the above example enough to reach 54
grams is close enough
Time was never a problem. Just go slowly. My shop was about 60-65 degrees.
John Oliveira
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
Has anyone started thinking about the test flight procedures for their
plane? I copied the test plan from the Canadian site and modified it as best
I could for the RV-9. I have also reviewed the FAA circular AC 90-89A and it
matches the test plan for most parts. The major difference seems to be
whether you do stalls on the first flight or just take it to about 1.4 x
stall speed.
I plan to attend a flight testing class in Dallas in March. There should be
some good info there also. I think that it would be good to have a common
test plan that would help to make the performance numbers we will be getting
comparable.
What do others think? Any ideas on a test plan or does someone have one that
has been used before? If anyone is interested, I will gladly share what I
have stolen and plagiarized. Or you can go out to the Western Canada wing
and steal it yourself.
Regards
Larry Perryman
Painting wings while I wait for my March engine delivery.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank" <fscorpio(at)softcom.net> |
Larry,
What is the link to the Canadian site on flight tests?
Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Test Flight
>
> Has anyone started thinking about the test flight procedures for their
> plane? I copied the test plan from the Canadian site and modified it as
best
> I could for the RV-9. I have also reviewed the FAA circular AC 90-89A and
it
> matches the test plan for most parts. The major difference seems to be
> whether you do stalls on the first flight or just take it to about 1.4 x
> stall speed.
>
> I plan to attend a flight testing class in Dallas in March. There should
be
> some good info there also. I think that it would be good to have a common
> test plan that would help to make the performance numbers we will be
getting
> comparable.
>
> What do others think? Any ideas on a test plan or does someone have one
that
> has been used before? If anyone is interested, I will gladly share what I
> have stolen and plagiarized. Or you can go out to the Western Canada wing
> and steal it yourself.
>
> Regards
> Larry Perryman
> Painting wings while I wait for my March engine delivery.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
02/21/2002 04:01:31 PM,
Serialize complete at 02/21/2002 04:01:31 PM
Frank,
The link is
http://www.vansairforce.org/
Down close to the bottom of the page is Flight Test Cards under
"Everything Else". They have a download form of the cards that is MS
Word compatible. I increased the left margin some so I could bind a copy
but the print out is set up for knee board size pages.
There were parts related to acrobatic testing that do not apply to the
RV-9 so I deleted them from my plan.
To:
cc:
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Test Flight
Larry,
What is the link to the Canadian site on flight tests?
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken" <ken(at)peggyking.com> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning / AOA |
Stall Warning
After practicing stalls in a Cessna 150 yesterday, I realized that my RV-9A
does not have any stall warning device. I have seen advertisements for AOA
units costing upwards (and beyond) $1000, but what about the simple systems
like the Piper and Cessna? I would like to hear what people are installing
on their airplanes, and if the $1000 AOA sensors are really desirable. I am
mainly looking for safety and reliability (repeatability). I am working on
the wings (about to do the Tank thing), and thought that this would be a
good time to consider these things.
Ken Anderson
Kirkland, WA
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank" <fscorpio(at)softcom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning / AOA |
Ken,
Take a look at the lift reserve indicator at www.liftreserve.com
Frank, Stockton, CA
Planning stage
----- Original Message -----
From: "ken" <ken(at)peggyking.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Stall Warning / AOA
>
> Stall Warning
>
> After practicing stalls in a Cessna 150 yesterday, I realized that my
RV-9A
> does not have any stall warning device. I have seen advertisements for
AOA
> units costing upwards (and beyond) $1000, but what about the simple
systems
> like the Piper and Cessna? I would like to hear what people are
installing
> on their airplanes, and if the $1000 AOA sensors are really desirable. I
am
> mainly looking for safety and reliability (repeatability). I am working
on
> the wings (about to do the Tank thing), and thought that this would be a
> good time to consider these things.
>
> Ken Anderson
> Kirkland, WA
> Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning / AOA |
>Stall Warning
>
>After practicing stalls in a Cessna 150 yesterday, I realized that my RV-9A
>does not have any stall warning device. I have seen advertisements
Hey Ken,
First, have you been to Vans and flown 129RV?
There is ton's of info about AOA indicators and how they will practically save
your life before you even start the engine litered about the RVlist archives,
however I think you need to look at how you will be flying and what you will be
doing with your plane. How close to the "edge" will you be flying etc.
Remember that the 9 is much more forgiving than the 4,6,7,8 etc that are the subject
of the AOA discussions.
All that being said, when I flew in the factory 9 it would be hard to miss a stall
in that baby. The nose was way way up, it had a good shake on the stick and
airframe and it sounded loud enough that you could hear the metal shaking and
oilcanning through your headsets... All in all you wouldn't miss it.
Now of course people stall and spin all the time in most every kind of aircraft,
so it's up to what you are comfortable with and how you want to fly it.
--
Andy Karmy
andy(at)karmy.com
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning / AOA |
on 2/21/02 9:43 AM, ken at ken(at)peggyking.com wrote:
>
> Stall Warning
>
> After practicing stalls in a Cessna 150 yesterday, I realized that my RV-9A
> does not have any stall warning device. I have seen advertisements for AOA
> units costing upwards (and beyond) $1000, but what about the simple systems
> like the Piper and Cessna?
Hi Ken,
I've saw a reasonably inexpensive stall warning unit in the Aircraft Spruce
catalog. It appears to be similar to the units used on Piper Cherokees.
There is also a company called Rite Angle (or something like that) that
December 14, 2001 - February 21, 2002
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