RV9-List Archive Browser

RV9-Archive.digest.vol-ae
February 21, 2002 - May 14, 2002

makes an angle of attack indicator called Rite Angle III that is about half the price of other units. I tried to find their web site this morning, but was unable to locate it. Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning / AOA
Date: Feb 21, 2002
02/21/2002 08:11:00 PM, Serialize complete at 02/21/2002 08:11:00 PM Look at the Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI). I am installing one in my 9. http://www.liftreserve.com/ Regards Larry Perryman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning / AOA
on 2/21/02 11:10 AM, PERRYMAN Larry at larry.perryman(at)atofina.com wrote: > > > Look at the Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI). I am installing one in my 9. > > http://www.liftreserve.com/ > > Regards > Larry Perryman > The lift reserve is definitely on my list of units to consider, but I'm not sure if it has a warning horn. I'd really like to hear something as you approach the stall. Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning / AOA
Ok, for those that are not watching the main RV list also... Here's an excellent opinion on this subject from Michael Lewis (an RV4 dude)... From: "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: stall warning --> RV-List message posted by: "KostaLewis" > I just had a demo flight on the RV7... What > was a little bit of a concern though was how fast the stall broke. There is > very little warning (other than the airspeed), and there is a rather sharp > pitch down of the nose. I was wondering if it is appropriate to install a > stall warning system on this type of aircraft, or is it just something RV > pilots get used to. I'm probably not one to comment as 99.9% of my hours have been in aircraft WITHOUT an auxiliary stall warning system. When I'm in an aircraft with one, it scares the hell out of me. I believe most of the 3000 RV's that are flying don't have any stall warning device. There is actually plenty of warning, or, I should say, there are plenty of warning signs. You may have noticed on your demo flight that at cruise or faster speeds, the controls are tight and responsive. As the airplane slows down, things begin to get a little lose; still responsive, but the controls are definitely telling you things are slowing down, if you haven't already noticed. The RV wing airfoil designs are one of the many things that make these great aircraft. They fly fast yet hang onto the air when slow. And the "feel" of the airplane changes with the speed. Can you inadvertently stall them? Of course. Would the stall warning horn prevent that? Maybe. Is this a 'tricky' airfoil that can suddenly reach out and bit you? No. Very well behaved. Slow flight is a delight in these airplanes because of the control you have and the 'grip' of the wing. But a definite feeling of slow on the controls. It still cracks me up to remember flying formation with a J-3 Cub and not feeling like I was on the ragged edge. Your new RV-7 will be one of the best airplanes you have ever flown. You will be flying it more than you would if you were renting. Which means you will be flying a lot more and consistently in the same airplane. It will teach you a lot about flying, including paying attention to your airplane. If you let it teach you. These airplanes have a tendency to make you a better pilot. Once you're flying, you'll know what I mean. This includes knowing how your airplane feels in slow flight, near stall, without that horn distracting you from your business. So: stall warning device? If you want one, you can put one on. These are, after all, Experimental aircraft and it is your choice. Will you need it after you get to know your airplane? Probably not. IMHO only. You are going to love your new airplane......... Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q 580+ hours and getting to know her.............. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: Stall Warning / AOA
Date: Feb 21, 2002
Hi Ken; I have the AOA from PSS. http://www.angle-of-attack.com/, I chose this one as I felt it to be the best of the 3 main indicators, however I feel I should have waited until as late as possible since technology is getting better & cheaper everyday. I will have an EFIS system in my panel and some of these systems have an integral AOA. I only bought it early because I was able to negotiate a great price from the rep while at Arlington. I want one as I will be flying into a challenging bush strip and want to be able to safely fly a little closer edge. S. Todd Bartrim 13B rotary powered RV-9 (finish kit) C-FSTB (reserved) Canadian Women's Hockey Team -- SOLID GOLD !!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ken > Sent: February 21, 2002 9:44 AM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV9-List: Stall Warning / AOA > > > Stall Warning > > After practicing stalls in a Cessna 150 yesterday, I realized > that my RV-9A > does not have any stall warning device. I have seen > advertisements for AOA > units costing upwards (and beyond) $1000, but what about the > simple systems > like the Piper and Cessna? I would like to hear what people are > installing > on their airplanes, and if the $1000 AOA sensors are really > desirable. I am > mainly looking for safety and reliability (repeatability). I am > working on > the wings (about to do the Tank thing), and thought that this would be a > good time to consider these things. > > Ken Anderson > Kirkland, WA > Wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Star Fleet Academy
Date: Feb 22, 2002
OK pals. Since we're commenting on me and my panel, I declare a full rebuttal. I'm building a plane for two reasons: 1) because I love flying machines, 2) because my aging parents live half a continent away and I want to see them a few more times a year than I can right now. This means I need a solid, IFR cross-country capable aircraft which is fast, reasonably easy to manage and economical to operate. When starfleet finally ships "transporter" kits, I'll definitely build one! For now, the 9 is the closest thing that fits the bill. Panel: Aside from the guitar, the only unconventional instrument on my panel is the Blue Mountain EFIS unit. Note that I retain the full primary six "conventional" instruments as backups. The avionics consist of an audio panel, two comms, one nav, and a transponder. Nothing spacey there. I bought all Apollo products because they have an outstanding track record, are reasonably priced, and most importantly, each is about 1" tall so they fit the RV panel well. I currently fly with a handheld PC running AnywhereMap GPS/moving map software. I got the iPAQ for free (I'm a senior design engineer at Compaq), the software cost about 250 bucks. Poor mans GPS you might say. As for the EFIS, here's my thinking. I love the moving map, but don't like the idea of using a portable unit, particularly in a stick aircraft. To read it, it really needs to be in your face. Apollo offers a GPS receiver (GX50/60) and if you want the moving map, they offer the MX20. When you tally up the cost of these two components, you will exceed the cost of the Blue Mountain EFIS unit. Dollar for dollar, the EFIS looks pretty good eh? With the Apollo GPS/MFD you get a nice GPS/Map, but that's about it. The Blue Mtn EFIS offers that, plus 16 programmable instruments, checklists, autopilot, full set of primary flight instruments using solid state gyro (no moving parts), provides spreadsheet output for flight performance recording, and other features I could go on describing for pages. And it all weights about 5 pounds. Sounding better all the time? Now in my case, I am building for an Eggenfellner Subaru motor. See www.subaruaircraft.com Being liquid cooled, fuel injected and having a prop speed reduction unit, I have special engine monitoring needs to consider that are not easily satisfied by steam gauges and I would run out of panel space real quick. The EFIS allows me to program gauges and alerts for low and high pressure fuel pumps (3 of them), forward and reverse fuel flow (automatically subtracting the return flow to compensate the totalizer), fuel quantity, RPM, PSRU-RPM, PSRU-temp, coolant temp, coolant pressure, coolant level, oil pressure/temp, manifold pressure, voltages of dual batteries and redundant busses, OAT, cabin temp, and still have leftover instruments, all nicely logged so I can provide "real" performance data for us all. The EFIS flight instruments cover soup-to-nuts plus a huge moving map (for my middle-aged eyes) and flight planning driven from a DVD, fuel calculations, density calculations, TAS, time enroute, total time, alternate fields, automatic enroute programming of surrounding frequencies and standby of the Nav and Comm radios, and even two-axis autopilot! You can also assign two pressure sensors to wing-mounted static ports and have your own AOA indicator for cheap. All this for 5 pounds, about 5 amps, and for the most reasonable price I've seen in the entire aviation industry throughout my twenty years. Finally, it's capabilities are evolving constantly. I get updates every 28 days and I can work directly with the designer. If it fails, I fly the primary six, if they fail, I fly the freekin plane, which is still as airworthy as ever. Check out: http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/ I couldn't even begin to cram the same level of capability into a conventional panel, and simple math would show no possible comparison of price. So am I nuts or am I a thrifty yankee with an eye on value at the leading edge of aviation? OK, both.... *sigh* ...it must have been the spandex comment... Since I'm all fired up,,, a word about safety and keeping it simple. We are building "EXPERIMENTAL" aircraft. Each of us has to consider whether we trust our lives and that of our passenger (if any) to our craftsmanship. If the answer is "no" or "gee I don't know" then take up car restoration as a hobby. I totally trust my workmanship, because of a simple rule; (hand over hearts please) "I honor the mechanisms of aviation and respect the pioneers that led the way". Silly sounding perhaps, but I refuse to accept anything less than excellence in workmanship. I'm not driven by any desire to win trophies or be the first on the block to do anything; I could care less. Simply put, I love machinery and have total respect for anyone able to build a fine flying machine regardless of how simple or complex it is. Some of the most awesome flying machines I have seen are also the simplest, most spartan designs. I believe that if you strip a plane to its bare airframe, you will see the essence of the machine and be able to judge its beauty and airworthiness. If you start with a beautiful, airworthy machine, any instruments or electronics or wizzardry you care to add are not going to hurt the fundamental machine. A great machine does not turn to crap if an experimenter chooses to experiment as long as you maintain that respect for the integrity of the underlying airframe at all times. "Respect the mechanisms of aviation". I'll turn you guys onto a website that hints of everything I ramble on about. Check out: http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/ We are experimenters. Be damn proud of that title. The more knowledgeable we become about those who have preceeded us, the more you will respect and honor our unique craft. Yes, build a simple plane first. Assure you have built a safe airframe by following the rules of the designer and the accumulated wisdom of others. Then experiment in every darn way you see fit, and have fun! That's what makes this scientific endeavor a "sport". Can I go now? This spandex is chaffing. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 2002
Subject: Re: Star Fleet Academy
We're just jealous because you can afford all that stuff..; ).. Kevin > OK pals. Since we're commenting on me and my panel, I declare a full > rebuttal. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning / AOA
Date: Feb 22, 2002
To Mark Schrimmer and others I have purchased the Rite Angle system for my RV-9A. It has an external mast with a vane driving a potentiometer and a vertical LCD display. I considered it the best system for the money, under $ 400 with the flap position sensor option. A landing gear position option is also available for retractable gear aircraft. The logic module also gives voice warning in addition to the visual AOA display. The Rite Angle system is available from EM Aviation, Brush Prairie, WA., Ph 360-260-0772. More info at www.riteangle.com or email elbie(at)aol.com. Recommend you check it out. Dean Van Winkle 90095 Finishing wings, fuselage inventoried. Central Illinois ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Sandwiched Foam for Vent Tubes
Date: Feb 22, 2002
I am installing the fuel, vent and brake tubes. Drawing #36 shows a foam sandwich being used to isolate these lines between the F-972 and F-982-C - the "tunnel" behind the firewall. I find it impossible to locate a suitable foam in my remote community. Does anyone know the type of store, etc., where I can find this stuff? I would hate to spend $20cdn to receive another $1 item. BTW: has anyone fabricated a different solution as a workaround - - eg.: aluminum plus snap bushings??? I would be concerned about the vibration, weight, etc. My Finish Kit will go to crating in a few days - I can't believe how long it is taking me to complete this fuselage. When I "flipped the canoe" I thought I was 75% done. HA! Thanks for any help. Ernest Kells - RV-9A Fuselage - Still 90% Complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Sandwiched Foam for Vent Tubes
Date: Feb 22, 2002
I didn't like the foam sandwitch either (tasted awful). Instead, I stole a thick nylon cutting board from the kitchen, cut it into 3/4" wide strips on the bandsaw, smoothed the edges on a belt sander, then cut the strips into about 3" lengths. I sandwiched two of these strips together, drilled and tapped for two 8/32 screws to hold them together, then drilled holes to match my fuel line diameters through the side of the pair of strips right on the seam (and all of this in a half hour while the girls were sleeping). The result is nice custom nylon blocks of whatever length and hole configs you need. Because of my fuel-injection system, I have extra pipes to deal with (3/8 supply, 1/4 return, 1/4 vent, 1/4 brakes x 2). You could even drill a few more holes for wiring conduits. I put a thin strip of foam weatherstrip tape under the bottom half-block to cushion it against the bottom fuselage skin and to kill any noise. Lay the tubes in the half-circle grooves, put the top half on, screw them together. Looks great, lasts a long time, cost nothing at all, and I've got enough material to build about fifty more! All for the price of an angry wife! Gosh dear, I must have inadvertently recycled that cutting board... ; ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Sandwiched Foam for Vent Tubes
Date: Feb 22, 2002
02/22/2002 05:19:59 PM, Serialize complete at 02/22/2002 05:19:59 PM Another option is to get some rubber fuel line from the local auto parts store and cut it to spiral wrap the lines. If you plan far enough ahead, you can simply slip it over the brake lines before you flare one end and install them. That is the smallest diameter covering I have found. Regards Larry Perryman "Ernest Kells" Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com 02/22/2002 09:50 AM Please respond to rv9-list To: "(RV-9A-List)" cc: Subject: RV9-List: Sandwiched Foam for Vent Tubes I am installing the fuel, vent and brake tubes. Drawing #36 shows a foam sandwich being used to isolate these lines between the F-972 and F-982-C - the "tunnel" behind the firewall. I find it impossible to locate a suitable foam in my remote community. Does anyone know the type of store, etc., where I can find this stuff? I would hate to spend $20cdn to receive another $1 item. BTW: has anyone fabricated a different solution as a workaround - - eg.: aluminum plus snap bushings??? I would be concerned about the vibration, weight, etc. My Finish Kit will go to crating in a few days - I can't believe how long it is taking me to complete this fuselage. When I "flipped the canoe" I thought I was 75% done. HA! Thanks for any help. Ernest Kells - RV-9A Fuselage - Still 90% Complete = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2002
From: Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning / AOA
Tim Lewis's site (http://www.geocities.com/TimRV6A/stall.htm) gives information on installing the "vane type" stall warner listed in the Aircraft Spruce catalogue. Tim has installed one in an RV6. The problem is in determining the best position for such an installation in an RV9 without drilling holes all over the wing. I suppose that if one already has cutouts for the Duckworks wing lighting, it would be feasible to make cover-plates for one of the openings and try different locations for the vane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Berryhill" <berryhill1911(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Star Fleet Academy
Date: Feb 22, 2002
........snip >Panel: > >Aside from the guitar, the only unconventional instrument on my panel is >the >Blue Mountain EFIS unit. Note that I retain the full primary six >"conventional" instruments as backups. Gary, have you considered the Blue Mountain "EFIS Light" as a backup? Dave Berryhill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 2002
Subject: Re: Sandwiched Foam for Vent Tubes
There you have it folks, ingenuity and resourcefulness, the stuff experimental aircraft builders are made of. I recently bought some nylon material from an aircraft parts supplier to make pillow blocks out of, it never occurred to me I could have just waltzed down to wally world and rummaged around through the aisles full of kitchen appurtenances. Could have even picked up some beer while I was there. Nice work Gary, we need to keep reminding each other to think outside the box. (PS, now I see how you can afford a Blue Mtn EFIS) 8 ) Kevin Shannon In a message dated 2/22/02 8:19:44 AM, fcs(at)jlc.net writes: >I stole a >thick nylon cutting board from the kitchen, cut it into 3/4" wide strips >on the >bandsaw, smoothed the edges on a belt sander, then cut the strips into >about 3" >lengths. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ewinne(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 2002
Subject: Rany
Gary- Just a little bit of builder-to-builder support here- Your rant was a thing of beauty. P.S. if you want a little non-constructive input on the Subaru engine idea, listen to Car-Talk next weekend (March 2-3). I just taped a call to them to ask their thoughts about putting a subie into a homebuilt airlane. They were NO help at all, and seemed to think that only wack-o's build airplanes in their garages. Go figure! Ed Winne RV9A Palmyra PA >OK pals. Since we're commenting on me and my panel, I declare a full rebuttal< ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Star Fleet Academy
Date: Feb 23, 2002
> Gary, have you considered the Blue Mountain "EFIS Light" as a backup? Briefly. But this is where I draw the line on technology. I didn't want to backup my EFIS with an EFIS. I think their EFIS-lite is a good deal for people who just want to try out the new technology without dedicating their entire panel to it, but I really believe a "backup" should be one step down the hi-tech food chain. I could envision something like a lightning strike or voltage spike nailing both units. Of course one could argue the same for my electric gyros I suppose. I guess there's always the compass to bring you home. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Brandvold" <jbrandv(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Installing light in rudder
Date: Feb 23, 2002
We are ready to install the combination strobe & light in the rudder. We can't find much in the manual about it. Do we just cut a hole and epoxy the thing in? Has anyone else mounted this light? How did you go about installing it? Just about done with the empennage Jim Brandvold ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com>
Subject: Re: Installing light in rudder
Date: Feb 24, 2002
Jim, I just went thru installing the light in the rudder. I ended up making a removable bracket located at the midpoint of the fiberglass faring and connected the light unit using two approx. 12" long 8-32 threaded rods. I used Loctite Epoxy to attach a nut at the end of the rods and rounded it on my sanding belt to diameter that would fit the light housing. I also fabricated an 1/8" thick aluminum spacer so when the threaded rod was tightened the spacer would enable the gasket in the light housing to be compressed and give me a water tight seal, on final assembly I plan to back up the gasket with silicone RTV to further assure a water seal. The bracket is simply three small pieces of angle 2" long and I used plate nuts with countersunk machine screws and Tinnerman washers to help support the thin fiberglass. I couldnt see anything simpler to do in short of just epoxying it on like you suggested but it must be servicable and I didn't want it coming loose down the road. Hope this explanation is clear. -- Steve Dwyer 90219 Waiting on my finishing --- Original Message ----- From: Jim Brandvold <jbrandv(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: RV9-List: Installing light in rudder > > We are ready to install the combination strobe & light in the rudder. > We can't find much in the manual > about it. Do we just cut a hole and epoxy the thing in? Has anyone > else mounted this light? How > did you go about installing it? > > Just about done with the empennage > Jim Brandvold > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 2002
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/22/02
In a message dated 2/23/02 1:52:26 AM Central Standard Time, rv9-list-Gary Newsted writes: > Now in my case, I am building for an Eggenfellner Subaru motor. See > www.subaruaircraft.com Being liquid cooled, fuel injected Gary...how are you planning on returning the unused fuel to the wing tanks? Send it back to the originating tank with an ANDAIR valve...send it to one and then transfer between tanks to balance? Doug OK City Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 2002
From: Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Posting on a first flight
Listers, the first flight information below was posted on the main RV list yesterday. I'm not sure if everyone else monitors that list. Do not archive. Leland From: "AJ Yahya" <ajyahya(at)relay3.jaring.my> Subject: RV-List: First RV-9A to fly outside US? --> RV-List message posted by: "AJ Yahya" 9M-EAX took off for its maiden flight at 9.30am 16 Feb 2001 at Subang Airport Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. This, I believed is the first completed RV-9A outside USA. The plane is powered by a brand-new LASAR equipped Lycoming O-320D1A and Hartzell constant speed prop. Other equipment are VM-1000 engine monitor, S-TEC System 30 autopilot, Kings KLX-135A gps/comm, Morrow SL30 comm, EI fuel gauge. The plane flew well on its first flight except of high CHT cylinder #3. CHT on #3 quickly shot up to over 500 degrees F. Ambient temperature was 34 deg C (rather humid). An air-dam was quickly fabricated and installed in front of cylinder #1 to resolve this problem and was tested during the second flight. CHT during take-off climb now stabilised at 460 F (still too high) and oil temperature at 220 deg F. The low speed handling of this aircraft is just superior compared my earlier RV-6A. This is the third RV series aircraft to be completed and flown in Malaysia. We are still working out the problem of high CHT and oil temperatures. Any input to solve these is welcomed. AJ Yahya 9M-EAX Kuala Lumpur MALAYSIA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ken" <ken(at)peggyking.com>
Subject: Installing light in rudder
Date: Feb 24, 2002
Subject: RV9-List: Installing light in rudder We are ready to install the combination strobe & light in the rudder. Jim, My method may seem a little simplistic, but: After cutting the hole with a hole saw, I drilled the two holes for the screws using the light bezel as a template. There wasn't very much margin. I then cleaned out the inside area with a Dremel to be able to insert the nuts in line with the screw holes. To place the nuts, I put a little vaseline on the threads of a screw and put the nut on the screw and put it in place. Then I used fiberglass resin with cut fiberglass hairs (sort of like bondo with cut fibers mixed in) and blobed it around the nut/screws. After the resin set, I unscrewed the screw, and used the Dremel to cut off the excess fiberglass so that the light assembly would fit in the hole. The vaseline acted like a good release agent, and the screws came out cleanly. I hope this helps Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com>
Subject: Arm rests
Date: Feb 24, 2002
Has anybody given thought to beefing up the arm rests? I dont recall how the 6 is but it seems a little flimsey, I see my first passenger placing their weight on the rest and bending it down ....Thoughts anyone? Steve Dwyer 90219 N247SD reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/22/02
Date: Feb 24, 2002
> ...how are you planning on returning the unused fuel to the wing tanks? > Doug The stock fuel system returns fuel to the inlet side of the pumps, thus avoiding the hassle of additional plumbing. While this has proven to work fine, I am never happy with compromises, so I went ahead and plumbed a return line, via duplex valve back to the tanks. I've also added a gascolator and low-pressure pump to assure quick priming and some accumulation to avoid starvation in high bank turns. Word of warning... deviating from plan for the fuel system is not something you do without assuming the associated risks. I'll be doing a lot of testing before I even think about launching. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Arm rests
Date: Feb 24, 2002
They're stronger than you might think once you consider where the seat position is. Only the front foot or so is exposed. If you do want to strengthen it, and assuming you don't want to rivet anything else through the side skin, you are left with about three options. 1) Bond or screw something (like balsa) underneath it. 2) reinforce it with a front-to-rear angle attached to bulkheads. 3) mold custom side panels. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Firewall Flange
Date: Feb 24, 2002
Can anyone show me in the fuselage plans or manual where it indicates that you should not rivet the side skins to the firewall flange until later, in assembly with the hinge that attaches the cowl? I see nothing on the drawings until the finish kit sheets (I have the preview set), and on page 8-10 the manual says to rivet everything on the side skins together, except the designated longeron rivets. Glad I had the preview set. Anyone get caught there, and have to drill out a bunch of rivets? Or am I missing something? Gary C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Left Hand / Right Hand PIC
Date: Feb 24, 2002
Being Left Handed, I am considering setting up the cockpit for "Right Seat PIC". Anybody know why this might be a "bad idea"? Dave 90347 (Waiting for Finishing Kit & Subaru Engine) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Left Hand / Right Hand PIC
Date: Feb 24, 2002
Dave.....sounds fine to me. I plan to fly mine from the right seat occasionally, even though set up for left seat. Gary Being Left Handed, I am considering setting up the cockpit for "Right Seat PIC". Anybody know why this might be a "bad idea"? Dave 90347 (Waiting for Finishing Kit & Subaru Engine) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall Flange
Date: Feb 25, 2002
I didn't see it referenced either, but I chose not to install the firewall until just before hanging the engine. This has helped to save my back! It sure is a lot easier to do the plumbing, wiring, cabling, etc. etc. when you can stand in front of the fuselage. The instructions leave a lot to guesswork when it comes to the fuselage huh? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Left Hand / Right Hand PIC
Date: Feb 25, 2002
Not being a lefty, perhaps I don't understand. Why couldn't you set up either seat to be for a left handed pilot? Isn't it just a matter of where you put the throttle, and maybe what stick grips you buy? I've been thinking about the throttle question myself. A center throttle allows both seats access, but I kinda prefer to fly with my right hand and thus the throttle would need to be on the left. I guess this all comes down to personal preference. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Tank final mounting?
Ok builders... So when do you finally mount the tanks to the wings? I have finished the tanks and screwed them down to the spars while riveting the top main skins. I'm just not sure if I should fight with those bolts (not many of them line up on the spar the way it sits) or will I have to remove the tanks to hang the wings etc? Thoughts? -- Andy Karmy andy(at)karmy.com -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: RV-9 Firewall Flange, manual updates
Date: Feb 25, 2002
I called Van's on this. Don't rivet the side or bottom skins to the firewall flange until Finish Kit time, when you have the cowling attach hinge. It rivets on in assembly with the skins. The good news is, the guy I talked to has the job of updating the manuals. He said he has looked at the -7 and -8 manuals, and is starting on the -9. We could all give him some input on that job! He has already added the section on fitting the wing to the fuselage. If you see any major errors in the manual (Ha!), talk to Bruce at Van's. Gary C I didn't see it referenced either, but I chose not to install the firewall until just before hanging the engine. This has helped to save my back! It sure is a lot easier to do the plumbing, wiring, cabling, etc. etc. when you can stand in front of the fuselage. The instructions leave a lot to guesswork when it comes to the fuselage huh? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
Date: Feb 25, 2002
Mount 'em and forget 'em.......as long as they don't leak! The tanks need to be on the wings when you fit them to the fuselage, so you can locate the forward tank attach brackets. Gary C Ok builders... So when do you finally mount the tanks to the wings? I have finished the tanks and screwed them down to the spars while riveting the top main skins. I'm just not sure if I should fight with those bolts (not many of them line up on the spar the way it sits) or will I have to remove the tanks to hang the wings etc? Thoughts? -- Andy Karmy andy(at)karmy.com -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Left Hand / Right Hand PIC
Date: Feb 25, 2002
The main issue I see with "Left Hand / Right Hand" is: "which hand do you write with?" If I want to jot down ATC Instructions and I am flying with my "writing hand", something has to change.... I also seem to have a little better "dexterity" with my Left Hand vs. Right Hand that might be handy for "fine tuning instruments and controls". Are there any "Right Hand" avionics out there to look out for? Hopefully most are ambidextrous, but there could be something that works best for one hand or the other. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Left Hand / Right Hand PIC > > Not being a lefty, perhaps I don't understand. Why couldn't you set up either > seat to be for a left handed pilot? Isn't it just a matter of where you put > the throttle, and maybe what stick grips you buy? I've been thinking about > the throttle question myself. A center throttle allows both seats access, but > I kinda prefer to fly with my right hand and thus the throttle would need to be > on the left. I guess this all comes down to personal preference. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RV-9 Firewall Flange, manual updates
Date: Feb 25, 2002
So did Bruce say whether they plan on sending updated manuals to current builders or is customer services a myth? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
Date: Feb 25, 2002
What's with the fit of the screws? Did it change once you sealed it up? I had a couple of the backing plate-to-spar angle holes not line up, but it was a simple matter of opening the holes slightly in front of the nut-plates. Once the screws hit nut-plate threads, she lined up great. I have heard tell of sealant causing the tank skins to stick up above the spar. Assuming you've countersunk the spar nutplates right, you might be able to tighten the screws down before the proseal has fully cured and have it settle into place. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
Date: Feb 25, 2002
By the way, a little dab of Permatex Anti-Seize compound on nut-plate screws works wonders. Go extra light with the stuff so it doesn't bleed back up under the screw heads. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Left Hand / Right Hand PIC
Date: Feb 25, 2002
Hmmm good point Dave, I didn't even think about writing! My left hand writing looks like a doctors. Back to the center throttle for me! As for duals, you can always buy a dual cable setup. They're about $120 bucks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
It seems I mis spoke in describing my problem... My screws fit just fine. It's the bolts to the spar that have at least half of them range from just a bit off, to half a hole width off. This is with the screws all tightened down. This was all jiged up and drilled with cleco's holding the z brackets down etc. It seems that they moved just enough during sealing / riveting to make everything a bit off. In looking through the archives It seems that I should first take out the screws and then bolt first, then screw the tanks on... Now that I know I don't need them off again, I'll do that once I pressure test the tanks... Thanks much, - Andy ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:08:34 -0500 > >What's with the fit of the screws? Did it change once you sealed it up? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
I used just a bit of "Boelube" a dry tool / screw lube that Boeing makes for their wonder ships... It made them go in nice and easy. It's kind of a white paste power in a stick. Got it from Cleveland tools. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:10:01 -0500 > >By the way, a little dab of Permatex Anti-Seize compound on nut-plate screws >works wonders. Go extra light with the stuff so it doesn't bleed back up under >the screw heads. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
Date: Feb 25, 2002
Definitely bolt the spar mounting angles down first! You can still do some vertical positioning while the skin screws are off. Get all the bolts started before tightening any of them down. You can put a slight taper on the rim of the bracket holes with a countersink if you need to. This will help to guide the bolts into the nut-plates. Worse case, mark the holes that are too far off and open up the spar holes slightly. This is better than having bending stresses on the mounting brackets since this might lead to a leak. With all these screws and bolts, it's plenty strong. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: RV-9 Firewall Flange, manual updates
Date: Feb 25, 2002
Gary.....Bruce didn't indicate that, and I am not aware of them ever having done such a thing. To my knowledge, the most they usually do is to put a hint in the RV8tor. Gary Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-9 Firewall Flange, manual updates So did Bruce say whether they plan on sending updated manuals to current builders or is customer services a myth? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2002
02/26/2002 08:34:16 AM Now that someone mentioned never seize, I wonder which would be better in the long run for corrosion protection of the treads .... Boelube or never seize compound. Boelube appears to be a good thread lubricant for initial installations ..... but I'll bet that the never seize would be better over the long run. Anybody have any practical experience to share with the group? I have always used never seize on my auto's with great success. I have been using Boelube on my airplane (because everyone else does). Hey, I'm human (although I am a cut above since I'm an RV builder!). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Fw: [rvsqn] RV9 / Wilksch diesel
Date: Feb 26, 2002
Mark - I posted this info to the UK RV list a while back. Did not think the US would be interested. Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Sampson Subject: [rvsqn] RV9 / Wilksch diesel I have been in contact with Mark Wilksch over his RV9 plans. Thought I might share them. Comments he has made include: "We are developing cowl shapes on the Europa and the Thorp T-211. They are both "worst case" for cooling as there is little room in the cowling for air exit (particularly the Europa). Once these cool OK the we can commit to the RV9 cowl. We have a local motorsport firm interested in doing the RV-9 cowl. It will be easy as we can steal the shape of the first 18" or so from the Thorp. The Europa is now cooling well enough to sustain nearly 1000ft/min climb in the winter. Next aim is to get rid of the extrenal oil cooler. We have a local RV9 builder who we are working with. He could be first to fly depending on his build time." Also "We will supply mount frame complete with gear leg fitting, PFA approved. Will be on display at Cranfield." I was concerned to ensure nothing I was doing was incompatible with his engine. The fuel system was a concern but it turns out according to VANS that diesel/jeta1 and proseal are OK. The engine will need a fuel return line to the tank and a switch to switch both supply and return. Otherwise it should be pretty much the same behind the firewall. Now lets see a few engines with a 1000hrs on them! It seems there are about 20 europas comitted to the engine. Regards, Steve. PS I have also seen a W&B that VANS put together assuming you replaced the O-320 with Wilksch's engine. It seems to be about 40lbs lighter. To Post a message, send it to: rvsqn(at)eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: rvsqn-unsubscribe(at)eGroups.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gene(at)nvaircraft.com
Subject: Tank final mounting?
Date: Feb 26, 2002
I wouldn't use never-seize until after your plane is painted, it may contain additives that could mess up your paint. After the paint ..no problem. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
Date: Feb 26, 2002
Personal opinion? I've used Permatex Anti-sieze goop for years in aircraft, cars, and boats. It seems to do the trick. Screws come out even after years go by. I've got Boelube too, but it's a strange substance. I bought it for drilling, but it only sticks to hot drill bits. Never thought about trying it on screw threads. The down side of the Permatex is that it can get messy if you don't use it sparingly. Could mess up paint adhesion if you don't prep well; and it can bleed out from under screw heads at 200mph and mess up that otherwise cherry paint job. Use what works for you... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
Date: Feb 26, 2002
> I wouldn't use never-seize until after your plane is painted, it may contain additives that could mess up your paint. After the paint ..no problem. Exactly,,, gotta be careful. I dip-the-tip of the screws, perhaps the first two threads, and use care not to get it under the screw heads. If you focus on just hitting the nut-plates, it'll be fine. The most important time to use it is the first time you screw a virgin nut-plate. After that it's just to make sure it doesn't sieze over the years of neglect. Some folks remove their screws to paint, but you can also just back them out a few turns to let the paint under them,,, or don't bother! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 2002
Subject: Re: Tank final mounting?
WHAT a dilemma this is, we want lubrication for insertion and removal, but do not want inadvertent slipping out, or even worse, breaking the end off after being in there too long. There must be more about anti-sieze in the archives, I am going to look now...... Will report on my progress.. Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ewinne(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2002
Subject: The engine debate
This is for people who: 1) want to reopen the auto vs Lycoming engine debate, or 2) have a bit of a sense of humor: This weekend on Car-Talk (you know, the National Public Radio program) The guys take a phone call from me regarding the subaru engine in a home built aircraft. Needless to say, they had a lot of fun with the topic, and were NO help at all! For some reason, they seemed to be of the impression that those who build aircraft in their garages are less than normal. Listen in. We recorded the segment on Wednesday, and they don't guarantee it'll get on (they "mix and match" the calls to get the best mix of humor and time limit potential) but they are already asking me for pix to post on their web site. Ed Winne RV 9A Palmyra PA wings/QB fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2002
From: Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: CS4-4 strength data
Can anybody give me the shear and tensile strength of the CS4-4 blind rivets. They are listed in Van's catalogue. The Aircraft Spruce catalogue gives strength numbers for several rivets, but not the CS4-4's. I would like to find a better source for blind-rivet data. Leland Getting ready to attach the infamous F-6118 to a QuickBuild firewall recess ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Rankin <rankinp(at)avsales.com>
Subject: CS4-4 strength data
Date: Feb 28, 2002
CS 4-4 Rivet You need to be more specific. What is the complete rivet part number. For example: a NAS1399B-4 Blind Rivet has a Single Shear strength of 388 lbs and a Tension strength of 230 lbs the shear is also a function of the skin thickness. you can E-mail me personally for more data, if you like. > -----Original Message----- > From: Leland & Anne [SMTP:federigo(at)pacbell.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:36 AM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV9-List: CS4-4 strength data > > > Can anybody give me the shear and tensile strength of the CS4-4 blind > rivets. They are listed in Van's catalogue. The Aircraft Spruce > catalogue gives strength numbers for several rivets, but not the > CS4-4's. I would like to find a better source for blind-rivet data. > > Leland > Getting ready to attach the infamous F-6118 to a QuickBuild firewall > recess > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Rankin <rankinp(at)avsales.com>
Subject: CS4-4 strength data
Date: Feb 28, 2002
For general information. Cherrymax Rivets are the industry standard for Blind Rivets. Their catalog can be found at: https://etaf.textron.com/etaf/GetFile/ProductDocs.jsp/catalog/CA-42-5M-1100. pdf > -----Original Message----- > From: Leland & Anne [SMTP:federigo(at)pacbell.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:36 AM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV9-List: CS4-4 strength data > > > Can anybody give me the shear and tensile strength of the CS4-4 blind > rivets. They are listed in Van's catalogue. The Aircraft Spruce > catalogue gives strength numbers for several rivets, but not the > CS4-4's. I would like to find a better source for blind-rivet data. > > Leland > Getting ready to attach the infamous F-6118 to a QuickBuild firewall > recess > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Wing close & ailerons
Ok Gary N (or others), I'll post this to the list since others might be interested... Could you elaborate on your aileron & flap construction method of doing it on the wing... My main question is... So when you are closing the trailing edge. You have the skins and aex wedge clamped with the longerons, then do you simply use a flat set and a bucking bar to "lightly" set the TE rivets? Then take it to the backrivet plate and finish it up? Is this right? The other question is about the bottom skins. You show them being pried up and held with a bar and ropes. Did you have someone helping you rivet as they came down? Do you just cleco one hole at a time and rivet the hole behind that cleco as you work your way down? Thanks much -- Andy Karmy andy(at)karmy.com -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2002
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com>
Subject: Re: CS4-4 strength data
try the cherry max web site..or your local dealer Leland & Anne wrote: > > Can anybody give me the shear and tensile strength of the CS4-4 blind > rivets. They are listed in Van's catalogue. The Aircraft Spruce > catalogue gives strength numbers for several rivets, but not the > CS4-4's. I would like to find a better source for blind-rivet data. > > Leland > Getting ready to attach the infamous F-6118 to a QuickBuild firewall > recess > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2002
From: John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Wing close & ailerons
No, just like the elevators and rudder, do all the riveting with back rivet plate for the trailing edge. Mine came out very nice just following the Vans instructions. John Oliveira ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Wing close & ailerons
Date: Mar 01, 2002
Yes I riveted them just enough to hold their position, then set it down on a plate and back-riveted to finish them off. The only point of starting with the control surfaces mounted to the wing is to assure the trailing edges come out straight and true. It is easy to build them "straight" but find out they are not "true" once you install them and take a look down the trailing edge. This methods assures they come out nice. As for ropes, pulleys, etc. I had no problems reaching the wing skin rivets, so I closed them up by myself. The bar and rope is just an easy way to apply a lot of pull without risking bending anything where it ought not to be bent. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Boo boo time - drilling out LP4-4
Date: Mar 02, 2002
Yep another time to back up! I have never drilled out pop rivets before - LP4-4? Also when I reassemble will I be able to use more of the same? I HATE mistakes! Steve. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Boo boo time - drilling out LP4-4
Date: Mar 02, 2002
This I DO know how to do. Use 1 size drill smaller than the rivet hole. Drill as straight down into the hole in the head of the pop rivet as possible, until thru or when the rivet starts to spin. If you have decent drill bits, simple lean the drill and bit to one side and the rivet head "should" pop off. If not, use a nail or punch to pop it off. Finish drilling or punching out the mandrel, although most of the time it will fall out. Dutch >From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> >Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV9-List: Boo boo time - drilling out LP4-4 >Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:11:52 -0000 > > >Yep another time to back up! > >I have never drilled out pop rivets before - LP4-4? > >Also when I reassemble will I be able to use more of the same? > >I HATE mistakes! Steve. > > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob.hassel(at)directlink.net>
Subject: RE: Builder Number
Date: Mar 02, 2002
Just curious, I've done an archive search and couldn't find the answer. If I have a builder number of say, 90510 does that mean I'm the 510th builder of an RV9? Bob Hassel RV9 emp, Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RE: Builder Number
Date: Mar 02, 2002
Just curious, I've done an archive search and couldn't find the answer. If I have a builder number of say, 90510 does that mean I'm the 510th builder of an RV9? <<>> Bob, Yes, that's the way it works. I ordered my empennage 12/27/99 and my builder number is 90025. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) engine baffles http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: The engine debate
Date: Mar 03, 2002
The Car-Talk episode was a grin, as usual. I was pleased to see they didn't want to get into the Lyco-Auto debate, other than to have some fun. I did take notice however, that they are sponsored by Cityside Subaru! What's this sport coming to when we turn to Click-n-Clack for making our engine decisions?!?!? G ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2002
From: Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Builder Number
I have been preparing my shop for a while now, and have just ordered the Preview Plans for the 9a. What builder number is Van's most currently issuing? (...number of RV 9a's under construction, or kits ordered thus far?) Anyone? Robert Bob Hassel wrote: > > Just curious, I've done an archive search and couldn't find the answer. If I > have a builder number of say, 90510 does that mean I'm the 510th builder of > an RV9? > > Bob Hassel > RV9 emp, Dallas, TX > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Builder Number
Date: Mar 03, 2002
Well it looks like it is north of 510 kits ordered. Only someone at Vans can tell you the current count. Too bad they won't put a counter on their web site for each kit type sold. Regards Larry Perryman 90288 Kit number 288 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: RE: Builder Number | | I have been preparing my shop for a while now, and have just ordered the | Preview Plans for the 9a. What builder number is Van's most currently | issuing? (...number of RV 9a's under construction, or kits ordered thus far?) | Anyone? | Robert | | Bob Hassel wrote: | | > | > Just curious, I've done an archive search and couldn't find the answer. If I | > have a builder number of say, 90510 does that mean I'm the 510th builder of | > an RV9? | > | > Bob Hassel | > RV9 emp, Dallas, TX | > | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob.hassel(at)directlink.net>
Subject: RE: Builder Number
Date: Mar 03, 2002
I received my emp kit ne week ago Friday (ordered on Feb 15) and was RV9A builder number 510. Bob Hassel RV9A - Emp - Dallas, TX -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Perryman Subject: Re: RV9-List: RE: Builder Number Well it looks like it is north of 510 kits ordered. Only someone at Vans can tell you the current count. Too bad they won't put a counter on their web site for each kit type sold. Regards Larry Perryman 90288 Kit number 288 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: RE: Builder Number | | I have been preparing my shop for a while now, and have just ordered the | Preview Plans for the 9a. What builder number is Van's most currently | issuing? (...number of RV 9a's under construction, or kits ordered thus far?) | Anyone? | Robert | | Bob Hassel wrote: | | > | > Just curious, I've done an archive search and couldn't find the answer. If I | > have a builder number of say, 90510 does that mean I'm the 510th builder of | > an RV9? | > | > Bob Hassel | > RV9 emp, Dallas, TX | > | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv6238(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: Builder Number
Speaking of builder/serial numbers and such I was wondering how many homebuilts actually are completed and flown by the person who began the project. I have never seen a statistic addressing this. Or for that matter, how many start-ups receive airworthy certificates. Any numbers on this? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gozewijn Vlasblom" <vlasblom(at)recorder.ca>
Subject: F-705 Bulkhead
Date: Mar 03, 2002
I am a few weeks into the fusilage and have just cut, and shaped the parts of F-705 bulkhead. What puzzles me is the F 705J angle, F 705K plate and F 705L shim. I made them all as directed, but I am at a loss understanding why and what this contraption is for. When I do not understand completely what I am doing, I am in chapter one of making a major mistake. I would love to be educated. Thanks, Goos Vlasblom 90171 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com>
Subject: Re: F-705 Bulkhead
Date: Mar 03, 2002
Goos how've you been? Last time I saw you was at the RV forum in Fulton NY. To better understand the 705 angle and shim assembly refer to Seat Back drawing number 30 and you will see how the seat back brace slips into the 705 assembly. It,s actually a clever way to hold the seat from falling forward. Everything changes when you get into the fuselage you have to really study the drawings every step of the way to keep from forgetting something. Did you get that Subaru yet? Is your's a slider or tip-up? Steve Dwyer 90219 Finishing Kit shipped last Thursday ----- Original Message ----- From: Gozewijn Vlasblom <vlasblom(at)recorder.ca> Subject: RV9-List: F-705 Bulkhead > > I am a few weeks into the fusilage and have just cut, and shaped the parts > of F-705 bulkhead. > What puzzles me is the F 705J angle, F 705K plate and F 705L shim. I made > them all as directed, but I am at a loss understanding why and what this > contraption is for. When I do not understand completely what I am doing, I > am in chapter one of making a major mistake. I would love to be educated. > Thanks, > Goos Vlasblom 90171 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: F-705 Bulkhead
Date: Mar 03, 2002
Detail B (upper right corner of DWG 20) shows a cross section of the upper portion of the F-705 Bulkhead along with the key dimensions necessary to properly locate these three pieces. The Shims (F-705L) provide space in front of the system for the trailing edge of the Seat Back Braces (F-638) in the "forward position", while the little bend (4) in the Plates (F-705K) provides a lead-in for the Seat Back Brace (F-638) in the "rearward position", under the edge of the Angle (F-705J). (I used F-638 as a temporary spacer to establish the vertical location of the Angles (F-705J) before drilling.) DWG 30 shows the complete system with the seats. This 2-position Seat Back Brace, along with the 3-position Seat Back Lower Hinge makes a very "adjustable" seat. Dave 90347 Waiting for Finishing Kit (4/15) and Subaru Engine (July) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gozewijn Vlasblom" <vlasblom(at)recorder.ca> Subject: RV9-List: F-705 Bulkhead > > I am a few weeks into the fusilage and have just cut, and shaped the parts > of F-705 bulkhead. > What puzzles me is the F 705J angle, F 705K plate and F 705L shim. I made > them all as directed, but I am at a loss understanding why and what this > contraption is for. When I do not understand completely what I am doing, I > am in chapter one of making a major mistake. I would love to be educated. > Thanks, > Goos Vlasblom 90171 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gozewijn Vlasblom" <vlasblom(at)recorder.ca>
Subject: J-Stiffeners
Date: Mar 05, 2002
On DWG 18 the J-stiffeners F-786A F786B and F-786C are drawn in the left bottom corner. The measurements depicted do not all coincide with the J-Stiffeners that I have. 3/8 measures 3/8 5/8 measures 11/16 My stock is 1/16 inch too wide 3/4 measures 3/4 I did some trial fitting and I cannot find a problem, but I would like to know if I have to trim these stiffeners to the proper measurements. When Van says 5/8, he usualy means 5/8 and not 11/16 Thanks, Goos Vlasblom 90171 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Kit Arrived
Date: Mar 05, 2002
Welcome to the fun Roy! So do they still sell fossil fuel for that new Lycosaur over there in the UK? What is it, about 50 Euro's per litre now? I figured you'ld hold out for one of the new Wilsch diesels http://www.wilksch.com/ Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: J-Stiffeners
Date: Mar 05, 2002
Not a problem... this US measurement system is just not all that precise! I just measured mine and got 5/8, but looking at the plane, I see you've got room to spare, so just ignore the extra 1/16 and enjoy the added strength. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Aero News Net - RV-9 Tailwheel Flies
Date: Mar 06, 2002
RV-9A Listers: Attached is the summary of an article in the Aero News Net's March 6 e-mail newsletter. Ernest Kells - RV-9A Fuselage 85% Complete > 03.06.02 Edition: > > SCOOP: RV-9 Flies > An ANN News-Spy let us know that the newest of the long line of high- > performance craft from Van's Aircraft, the RV-9 (tailwheel version on > the RV-9A), took to the air Monday, on its first flight. > Under the hand of Van himself, the first flight was just about > fifteen minutes long. With gusty crosswinds, there wasn't much data > collection to be made; but when there's a new airplane, just begging > to take off, well, you know... > Lousy weather is expected to keep the actual flight testing from > starting for a few days, so (and this is a factory request, as well > as ours) please don't call and ask all kinds of questions! They don't > have pricing, delivery, or features --or nothin' -- available for > release, so please hold your horses! For the WHOLE story, > http://www.aero-news.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com>
Subject: rv-9
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Does anybody know ifthe 9 use the same emp kit as the 9A ? Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: rv-9
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Yes > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene > Sent: March 7, 2002 9:20 PM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV9-List: rv-9 > > > > Does anybody know ifthe 9 use the same emp kit as the 9A ? > > Gene > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: F-747 Baggage floor.
Date: Mar 10, 2002
In view of my earlier shipping damage to the QB wings I am now working on the QB fuse'. This seems to put me ahead of much of the pack - accept for Newstead and a few others who were probably building it before it was designed :-) ! So a couple of gotchas that I have recently tripped over and not noticed mentioned elsewhere. Being a literal (and mostly) well behaved Brit I tend to follow instructions unless morally wrong, so: - in accordance with the middle of page 8-11 (9s8r2.pub 9/6/01) I ...."rivet them [F-747bagagge floor] in place." and, - in accordance with DWG29 step 2, I put F-747 on top of F-742 where it overlaps. There are two things wrong with this. The first is obvious - I want to install the step. The second, less so. Now I am working on the flap mechanism and find 742 should be on top of 747, despite the earlier instructions. Regards, Steve. PS Has anyone else adopted the 'Newstead step'. It looks like a fine kit upgrade to me. Currently plucking up courage to follow. PS Is anyone documenting a central list of 'gotchas'? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: F-747 Baggage floor.
Date: Mar 10, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: RV9-List: F-747 Baggage floor. > - in accordance with the middle of page 8-11 (9s8r2.pub 9/6/01) I > ...."rivet them [F-747bagagge floor] in place." > > and, > - in accordance with DWG29 step 2, I put F-747 on top of F-742 where it > overlaps. > > There are two things wrong with this. The first is obvious - I want to > install the step. > > The second, less so. Now I am working on the flap mechanism and find 742 > should be on top of 747, despite the earlier instructions. > I put the Aft Seat Floors (F-742) under the Baggage Floors (F-747) after doing a conventional installation of the Steps. This eliminated the need to cut a "notch" in the nose of the Flap Bearing Block (F-680), but now there is a small "wedge shaped" space under the Baggage Floor leading edge where it is held up by the trailing edge of the Aft Seat Floors. I don't think it will be a problem, but it would be best to have reversed the layering. I also used rivets on the Floors with the asumption I can drill them out later if necessary, although one of the local guys with a RV-6A put in Nutplates. (All things considered, the steps don't get a "lot of usage", so I don't expect to ever need to have access to the inner mounting bolts.) I thought about documenting instruction errors and oversights, but found most of my problems were due to "not planning ahead" far enough to see potential interferances and issues. Dave 90347 Waiting for Finishing Kit & Engine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: Malcolm Wheatley <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Trim cable routing on HS
I'm working off plans revision 3/00, and intending to use manual trim. On the plans, the HS 906 spar doubler is shown with text reading "Trim cable routing hole", but no arrow leading to an actual hole. I can't see anything about this in the archives. I am assuming that the arrow should go to the hole to the left of the text, as shown on the plan. Installed in the aircraft, this would put it slightly to the right of the 5/8" hole that needs drilling in HS907. Am I right? Malcolm Wheatley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Trim cable routing on HS
Date: Mar 11, 2002
The 5/8" hole that needs drilling in HS-907 is for the Manual Trim Cable. My DWG 3 (6/9/99), View A-A identifies the 5/8" hole for the Manual Trim Cable as the rivet hole that is the forth hole from the center, on the Left side, on the center line. (This make one less rivet to set!!) This put is just inboard of the Left Attach Angle (HS-908-L) top corner. Dave 90347 Finishing Kit & Engine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Wheatley" <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com> Subject: RV9-List: Trim cable routing on HS > > I'm working off plans revision 3/00, and intending to use manual trim. On > the plans, the HS 906 spar doubler is shown with text reading "Trim cable > routing hole", but no arrow leading to an actual hole. I can't see > anything about this in the archives. > > I am assuming that the arrow should go to the hole to the left of the text, > as shown on the plan. Installed in the aircraft, this would put it > slightly to the right of the 5/8" hole that needs drilling in HS907. > > Am I right? > > Malcolm Wheatley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Question on Steps
Steve Sampson wrote... >PS Has anyone else adopted the 'Newstead step'. It looks like a fine kit upgrade to me. Steve: I have seen a few builders in Oklahoma who have mounted the rectangular attachment to the inside of the fuselage instead of the outside. This gives a superior finished look (IMO) and makes it look a lot less like an "added on" item. Doug Lomheim OK City, OK Wings PS: Do British aeroplanes also have "boots" and "bonnets" like the cars? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Firewall Holes
Date: Mar 11, 2002
With the many changes and revisions to revisions I would like to confirm the "current" hole pattern for the RV-9A firewall - before cutting. I believe that the following reflects all current revisions pertaining to fixed prop, nose gear and a carburetor; A. Throttle: x= 2 1/2", y= 4 7/8", hole= 5/8" B. Carb.Heat: x= 2 1/2", y= 5 7/8", hole= 3/8" C. Mixture: x= 3 13/32", y=8 1/2", hole= 5/8" D. Cabin Heat x= 5 7/8, y= 1 15/16", hole= 2" Inlet: E. Nose Gear x= 4 13/32", y= 7 17/32", hole= 3/4" Access Hole: Did anyone have any problems with the current (hopefully stable) arrangement? I really don't want to be the cause of another revision. Ernest Kells - RV-9A Fuselage 90% Complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Tip up - static line route
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Steve...Thanks for passing that along. I agree with Gus. I ran mine under the armrest. I have an intentional low spot in the static line. Here is what I did: I ran the lines from the static ports, up to the highest point in the center of the bulkhead. Then through a tee, and straight down to the J-stiffener. Then it goes down at an angle to a low spot inside the side baggage area cover. Then up through the 705 bulkhead just underneath the armrest, and into the 704 upright. Then upward, out the top, and under the forward canopy deck, and around behind the panel. Here is my thinking: It wouId not be practical to keep it at the same level the full length of the plane, nor one constant slope, so you will almost certainly have some kind of low spot in the system. My system is uphill directly from the port for a considerable distance, hopefully keeping water out to begin with. Then it is downhill to an intentional low spot, which is some distance from the instruments. Here I will put a connection or water sump which can be drained. If you could have a nearly level line all the way, it seems to me it would be MORE likely to get water into the instruments. Also, my method precludes drilling a hole in that heavy angle in 705, where things are already a crowded mess. I don't see how you could avoid interfering with the canopy latch mechanism, if it goes through 705G. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Sampson Gary - I asked VANS about the static line route. You may still be interested in the answer. Regards, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> To: "Steve Sampson" Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 12:13 AM Subject: Re: #90360 Tip up - static line route > Yes, that would be OK. > > Gus > > On 8 Mar 02, at 7:58, Steve Sampson wrote: > > > Gus in view of your answer I think I would like to drill a 1/4" hole > > for the static line through the top outer rivet hole in the F-705G. I > > take it this would miss the latch mechanism and not overly weaken the > > structure. Please confirm. (I hate low pints in statics - to much > > water in this wet climate.) > > > > Thanks, Steve. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> > > To: "Steve Sampson" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:49 PM > > Subject: Re: #90360 Tip up > > > > > > > On 4 Mar 02, at 6:21, Steve Sampson wrote: > > > > > > > Gus - two tech queries. > > > > > > ......... > > > > > > > > 2. What is the proposed path for the static line through the F-705 > > > > bulkhead? > > > > > > > On the slider it's easy to route it along under the top longeron. > > > See dwg 25 detail K - similar on the 705. With the tip up that is > > > possible, that's how it is on the 7 here, but it may be a bit easier > > > to run it below the armrest to avoid the latch mechanism. There > > > isn't really room for a grommet so we just ahve a 1/4" hole drilled > > > through the heavy angle. > > > > > > Gus > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Tank pictures
If anyone is interested, I just put up detailed pictures of my recent fuel tank construction on the RV9. You can see them at http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/rv9tanks.htm There's not much naritive, but I figure it's always neat to see pictures of how others have attacked the proseal monster... No really it's fun I tell you! - Andy Karmy Seattle, WA RV9A - working on Ailerons ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on Steps
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Doug - thats a very interesting idea, however I am beyond the stage where I could do this. You would have to fix the step BEFORE the side skin went on I think. You would never get the two ends of the step threaded through at once. Boots and bonnets? No, you seem to have managed to follow the anglo french leadership on naming bits of aeroplane unlike cars. Cockpit from sailing ships I think, wings fin all good english words and from French empennage fuselage etc. I guess when planes came a long you were all feeling a little more international :-). We do however make them out of aluminium. You have a similar metal I believe with a little less sstructure! Regards, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com> Subject: RV9-List: Re: Question on Steps > > Steve Sampson wrote... > > >PS Has anyone else adopted the 'Newstead step'. It looks like a fine kit upgrade to me. > > Steve: > I have seen a few builders in Oklahoma who have mounted the rectangular attachment to the inside of the fuselage instead of the outside. This gives a superior finished look (IMO) and makes it look a lot less like an "added on" item. > > Doug Lomheim > OK City, OK > Wings > > PS: Do British aeroplanes also have "boots" and "bonnets" like the cars? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob.hassel(at)directlink.net>
Subject: Newstead Step
Date: Mar 11, 2002
where can I find info on this mod? It seemed from the beginning that putting the step attachments on the inside of the skin would be a visually pleasing idea. Bob Hassel RV9/A (?) Emp -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Sampson Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: Question on Steps Doug - thats a very interesting idea, however I am beyond the stage where I could do this. You would have to fix the step BEFORE the side skin went on I think. You would never get the two ends of the step threaded through at once. Boots and bonnets? No, you seem to have managed to follow the anglo french leadership on naming bits of aeroplane unlike cars. Cockpit from sailing ships I think, wings fin all good english words and from French empennage fuselage etc. I guess when planes came a long you were all feeling a little more international :-). We do however make them out of aluminium. You have a similar metal I believe with a little less sstructure! Regards, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com> Subject: RV9-List: Re: Question on Steps > > Steve Sampson wrote... > > >PS Has anyone else adopted the 'Newstead step'. It looks like a fine kit upgrade to me. > > Steve: > I have seen a few builders in Oklahoma who have mounted the rectangular attachment to the inside of the fuselage instead of the outside. This gives a superior finished look (IMO) and makes it look a lot less like an "added on" item. > > Doug Lomheim > OK City, OK > Wings > > PS: Do British aeroplanes also have "boots" and "bonnets" like the cars? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Tank Rivets
Does anybody remember what length rivets they used on their tanks? Using my Avery rivet gauge, I determined that I should be using a rivet a half size longer than specified on the plans. This has been the case many times throughout the project, so I put in some 3-4s and when I shot and bucked them, they bent. A fellow builder offered to shoot while I bucked and we still had the same problem. We finally decided to try some 3-3.5s as specified on the plans and these went in just fine. They definitely look undersized and are a little small according to my Avery gauge, but only one bent over. Anybody have any comments or suggestions? Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Newstead Step
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Hi, Bob Kevin Shannon mounted his steps on the inside of the skin, and they looked great. I saw it at Arlington. I didn't like the idea of putting them on with screws. I put mine on the outside, but flush riveted them. Or I will, when I get them back from the chrome shop. I also changed the inboard mounting arrangement. I put 4 #8 Screws through the nylon block, and then pinned the tube into the block with a # 10 machine screw that only goes through the top side of the tube. Kevin will probably show up on the list to answer your question. If not, I have his email address. Gary Crowder 90263 fuselage where can I find info on this mod? It seemed from the beginning that putting the step attachments on the inside of the skin would be a visually pleasing idea. Bob Hassel RV9/A (?) Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Rivets
Date: Mar 11, 2002
03/12/2002 01:17:28 AM, Serialize complete at 03/12/2002 01:17:28 AM I used 3.5's for everthing where there was two layers of al. Larry Perryman Mark Schrimmer Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com 03/11/2002 05:48 PM Please respond to rv9-list To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RV9-List: Tank Rivets Does anybody remember what length rivets they used on their tanks? Using my Avery rivet gauge, I determined that I should be using a rivet a half size longer than specified on the plans. This has been the case many times throughout the project, so I put in some 3-4s and when I shot and bucked them, they bent. A fellow builder offered to shoot while I bucked and we still had the same problem. We finally decided to try some 3-3.5s as specified on the plans and these went in just fine. They definitely look undersized and are a little small according to my Avery gauge, but only one bent over. Anybody have any comments or suggestions? Mark Schrimmer = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Rivets
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> >Does anybody remember what length rivets they used on their tanks? I used the ones called out on the plans. Sometimes they did end up just a bit short, but I didn't have any problems bending them over or breaking them off. I did try and clean the tails off with my square and laquer thinner after putting in each rivet. Then with a clean bar and a quick hit it wen't in ok. Overall I'm not sure how the rest of you are checking these rivets. I generally used the "that looks about right" method. I can't imagine putting the height gauge in the middle of that proseal mess and telling anything usefull about the shop head. -- Andy Karmy andy(at)karmy.com -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Rivets
Date: Mar 11, 2002
I noticed the same issues with rivet lengths in several places. After bending a few and drilling them out, I stopped "second guessing" and followed Van's recommendations unless the "short rivet" didn't look right when I finished setting it. (That was pretty rare.) As far as the tanks were concerned, the ProSeal takes up a little space, but I used Cleveland's "Tank Dies" for that "little extra room". and they came out fine. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RV9-List: Tank Rivets > > Does anybody remember what length rivets they used on their tanks? > > Using my Avery rivet gauge, I determined that I should be using a rivet a > half size longer than specified on the plans. This has been the case many > times throughout the project, so I put in some 3-4s and when I shot and > bucked them, they bent. > > A fellow builder offered to shoot while I bucked and we still had the same > problem. We finally decided to try some 3-3.5s as specified on the plans and > these went in just fine. They definitely look undersized and are a little > small according to my Avery gauge, but only one bent over. > > Anybody have any comments or suggestions? > > Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: F-747 Baggage floor.
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Steve, Step installation instructions are rather sparse, which is probably why so many people have come up with unique ways to install them. I've even heard of retractable steps, although I haven't seen them. You definitely want to install your steps before blind-riveting the baggage floors down. In my removable step mod, I drill 1" access holes in the baggage floor panels directly above the long bolt that goes through the plastic block. I pop a snap-plug into these to cover them up, and it will all be under a piece of carpet anyway. ...btw, we dropped the "a" from Newsted when we left Scotland... something about diamond smuggling, so the story goes. ; ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KIKIDEEMAX(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Subject: Re: Tank Rivets
DAVE 90347 WHAT ARE CLEVELAND "TANK DIES" AND WHAT ARE THEY USED FOR? ANOTHER DAVID 90070 FINISH ELEV, START 'G SPARS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Malcolm Wheatley <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Trim hole question again
Thanks, Dave -- but the question I was asking, albeit poorly, related to the hole in the HS906 that seemingly *doesn't* need drilling, not the hole in the HS907 that does. What I've got is a block of text, as I said, but no arrow shown that is identifying a particular hole.... Malcolm Wheatley From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim cable routing on HS The 5/8" hole that needs drilling in HS-907 is for the Manual Trim Cable. My DWG 3 (6/9/99), View A-A identifies the 5/8" hole for the Manual Trim Cable as the rivet hole that is the forth hole from the center, on the Left side, on the center line. (This make one less rivet to set!!) This put is just inboard of the Left Attach Angle (HS-908-L) top corner. Dave 90347 Finishing Kit & Engine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Wheatley" <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com> Subject: RV9-List: Trim cable routing on HS > > I'm working off plans revision 3/00, and intending to use manual trim. On > the plans, the HS 906 spar doubler is shown with text reading "Trim cable > routing hole", but no arrow leading to an actual hole. I can't see > anything about this in the archives. > > I am assuming that the arrow should go to the hole to the left of the text, > as shown on the plan. Installed in the aircraft, this would put it > slightly to the right of the 5/8" hole that needs drilling in HS907. > > Am I right? > > Malcolm Wheatley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)ipns.com>
Subject: Re: Trim hole question again
the best advice there is in this case..is to call Van's...they are great explaining, and don't seem to mind all the dumb questions I have asked ...talk to gus, or if you get lucky talk to scott mc daniels...but ALL of the van's staff are great....jolly, the ogre, in aurora, or. Malcolm Wheatley wrote: > > Thanks, Dave -- but the question I was asking, albeit poorly, related to > the hole in the HS906 that seemingly *doesn't* need drilling, not the hole > in the HS907 that does. What I've got is a block of text, as I said, but > no arrow shown that is identifying a particular hole.... > > Malcolm Wheatley > > From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim cable routing on HS > The 5/8" hole that needs drilling in HS-907 is for the Manual Trim Cable. > My DWG 3 (6/9/99), View A-A identifies the 5/8" hole for the Manual Trim > Cable as the rivet hole that is the forth hole from the center, on the Left > side, on the center line. (This make one less rivet to set!!) > This put is just inboard of the Left Attach Angle (HS-908-L) top corner. > Dave > 90347 > Finishing Kit & Engine > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Malcolm Wheatley" <malcolm_wheatley(at)compuserve.com> > Subject: RV9-List: Trim cable routing on HS > > > > > > I'm working off plans revision 3/00, and intending to use manual trim. On > > the plans, the HS 906 spar doubler is shown with text reading "Trim cable > > routing hole", but no arrow leading to an actual hole. I can't see > > anything about this in the archives. > > > > I am assuming that the arrow should go to the hole to the left of the > text, > > as shown on the plan. Installed in the aircraft, this would put it > > slightly to the right of the 5/8" hole that needs drilling in HS907. > > > > Am I right? > > > > Malcolm Wheatley > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Rivets
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Cleveland "Tank Dies" are 3/32" Dimple Dies with a "little deeper" set than standard. The theory is they provide room for the head of the rivet with a little ProSeal underneath. In the 2000-2001 Catalog, they are listed on page 29 as Part Number DIE426-3T. They can also be used on the Rib Flanges and Aft Main Spars so the skins "set a little deeper". When you dimple a sheet, the upset of the top surface and bottom surface are not quite the same. The bottom surface is moved a little bit more so it doesn't quite sit completely down in the matching dimple in the lower sheet. Using a slightly deeper dimple for the bottom sheet gives the inner surface of the top sheet some place to go. Normally the riveting action accommodates this difference, but Van's recommends using a few hand turns of a countersink on the Aft Spars since they won't form as easily as the thinner material. Using the Tank Dies here eliminates the need for hand c'sinking. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: <KIKIDEEMAX(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tank Rivets > > DAVE 90347 > WHAT ARE CLEVELAND "TANK DIES" AND WHAT ARE THEY USED FOR? > > ANOTHER DAVID 90070 > FINISH ELEV, START > 'G SPARS > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Graves" <cgraves(at)secor.com>
Subject: Hartzell Propeller For Sale....
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF Blades F7666A-2 (74") 205 hours since new Include Spinner (Fits Glasair I but may work for RV's?) $3500.00 Chuck Graves cgraves(at)secor.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Rivets for RV-9A Aileron and Flap Trailing Edges
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Reference Drawings 13 and 14. Both drawings call out AN426AD3-3 rivets for the aileron and flap trailing edges. When starting to partially set the shop heads with the backrivet set on my first flap, I found that the rivets were not holding the skins and wedge together well enough to turn the flap over for finish riveting from the manufactured head side. In fact, some would not even hold when I back riveted the shop head flush with the skin. In belatedly checking the elevator and rudder drawings, I found that they called for 3.5 length instead of 3, and I had no such problems with those surfaces. In a return email from Bruce Reynolds at Van's, He stated that they would change the drawing callouts to 3.5 length for the ailerons and flaps. I had no further trouble with the other flap and both ailerons after switching to the 3.5s. Just wanted to give a " Heads-Up " to others at this building stage. Dean Van Winkle 90095 Starting Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Installing wings
Date: Mar 12, 2002
I think that I am going insane. I know that I read the procedures for installing the wings to the fuselage in the plans but I can NOT find it now that I need it. Anyone out there have any idea where it is? Regards Larry Perryman PS. My wings came out within 1/8th of an inch measured from the tail of the plane to the back outboard wing skin corner. That is with the wings only pinned in with temporary pins. The leading edge was absolutely straight without adjustment. Now if the twist is right on, I will definitely need counseling. 90288 Conroe, Tx. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Installing wings
Date: Mar 12, 2002
This was posted by Al Gardner about a month ago: [I received the text below in a FAX from Gus (Vans Builders Support) after I mentioned to him that there were no instructions about installing the wing in the construction manual. I used an OCR program to turn the FAX into text so that I could include it in a posting to the RV9 list since the list will not accept attachments. I have proofread this but be aware some misspellings may get by me so read carefully. I have followed almost all of these steps and they work fine. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved) Working on finish] WING/FUSELAGE ASSEMBLY During this phase of construction it is necessary to assemble the wings to the fuselage for a number of reasons including drilling the rear spar/center section attach, finishing the aileron and flap control mechanisms, installing the wing tank/fuselage attach brackets, fabricating and fitting fuel & vent lines, and installing the wing root fairings. If you are working in a small shop it is acceptable to install, then remove one wing at a time. MARKING THE SCREW HOLES Before installing the wing, mark screw locations at each unused rivet space on the bottom flange of the W-710 root rib on the outside of the W-704 bottom wing skin. Then mark a straight line from the hole location toward the wing tip and make a measured mark 3" outboard from the intended screw location. This will allow you to measure back to the same point on the overlapping F 976 fuselage skin. If your wing tips have been permanently attached to the wings and/or your shop dimensions are such that the aileron pushrods cannot be inserted from the tips of the wings, the W-917 pushrods must be loosely placed in the wing lightening holes from the root before the wing panels are "plugged-in" to the fuselage. Installing the wing panels should be very simple, as the spars have been fitted and drilled at the factory. It is helpful to file a slight bevel on the root ends of the spar to assist getting it started sliding through the slot in the fuselage bulkhead, and to prevent it from scratching and galling the bulkhead bars as it slides through. Support the inboard ends of the wings when inserting to prevent the bottom of the spar from dragging along the inside of the fuselage bottom skin. As the wings are pushed in near center, be sure that the F-976 fuselage center bottom skin (which overhangs the fuselage) doesn't catch on the wing skin. FITTING THE WING PANELS When bringing the wing panel into its exact position and lining up the bolt holes in the bulkhead and spar, it is often helpful to use drift pins. These are usually a disposable hardware store bolt with the end rounded or tapered on a grinder. Gently driving this into a nearly aligned hole will center the bulkhead/spar hole so that the bolts can be installed without excessive force. Once the holes are aligned, use 7/16" and 1/4" hardware store bolts for test fitting to prevent damage to the holes and NAS bolts, For fitting purposes, it is only necessary to install four 7/16" bolts, one top and one bottom, on each wing panel. Of course, when permanently installing the wings all the bolts called-out on DWG 16 must be installed. With the main spar bolted in place, the next step is to attach the rear spars. Level the fuselage, both laterally and longitudinally, using the top surface of the longerons as a datum surface as shown on DWG 38 Then square the wing with the fuselage by measuring from corresponding points on the wing tips to a common centerline point on the aft fuselage. The dimensions should be equal. At the same time check that the wings have no forward or aft sweep by dropping 4 plumb lines from the wing leading edges (2 on each wing at inboard and outboard points). They should all fall in a straight line. When the wing is squared, mark the position with a vertical line on both rear spar and center section at the rear spar attach. Now the very important incidence angle must be measured and set. Use a level and spacer blocks as shown in DWG 38. Verify that the fuselage is level. Rest one end of a level on the forward spar just forward of the skin butt join: and the other end on a spacer placed directly over the rear spar web. Shift the rear of the wing up or down to center the level. The spacer size has been calculated to provide the desired incidence angle. Check several points along the span of the wing to verify the level reading. Clamp the root in place and check the other wing in the same manner. It is extremely important that there is at least 5/8" from fastener center to the edge of the part, in both the rear spar and F-705. If unable to maintain proper edge distance, call Van's Aircraft for assistance before proceeding further. See DWG 38, Section G-G. After checking and re-checking, drill the 5/16" hole for the attach bolt. Initially drill an undersize hole starting with no more than a 1/4" drill. Then progressively enlarge the hole to 5/16" to provide a close fit for an AN5 bolt. A long stiff drill bit is a good idea because it can be held straighter for a truer bole. The overlapping portions of the F-976 bottom skin are screwed to the bottom of the wing when the wings are installed to stay. Holes for these screws must be drilled now. Use the reference lines to locate the hole positions. When the wing is removed, these holes are countersunk for #8 screws and K1100-08 platenuts attached. Install the ailerons. W-9I8 pushrods, and flaps. FITTING THE FORWARD ATTACH BRACKETS Make the F-996A Fuel Tank Attach Brackets shown on DWG 38 Bend the web of the bracket so it fits to the fuselage side and to the T-905 angle bracket on the fuel tank. Clamp the F-996A angle firmly to the T-905 bracket on the fuel tank. Check to see that it rests firmly against the fuselage and drill the bolt boles from inside the fuselage. After the F-996A is bolted, at least temporarily, to the fuselage, the clamp can be removed. Locate the center of the 1/4" hole on the flange of the angle. Double check to be sure you have sufficient edge distance on both T-9O5 and F-996A. Drill the 1/4" hole through T-905. Finish the bracket installation after the wings are removed by installing the nutplate on T-905 as shown in DWG 38 Section E-E. Note the orientation of the nutplate. It is important. THE FLAP ASSEMBLY Assemble VA-256 flap pushrods as shown on DWG 33. Bolt the VA-256 to both the flaps and the Wd-605EF flap control weldment. Rob a battery from your car or lawn tractor and connect it to the flap motor. Run the motor up and down while checking for any possible interference in the flap linkage. The hole in the fuselage skin may be enlarged as necessary to avoid interfering with the pushrod. WING ROOT FAIRINGS Install the F-999 wing root fairings as shown on DWG 38, Wing Root Fairing Installation Detail, and Section F-F. Note that the drawing shows both bottom and top of the wing, as if they had been flattened into one plane. INSTALLING THE CONTROL SYSTEM Install the WD-610 control column, WD-611/WD-612 control sticks, and F-665 control column pushrod as shown on DWG 38. Use the W-930 bellcrank jig; to hold the WD-421 bellcrank in its neutral position as shown on DWG 9. Install and adjust the W-918 aileron- to-bellcrank pushrod such that the aileron is in the neutral position (sec DWG 15) when the bellcrank is held in its neutral position. Install and adjust the W-917 bellcrank-to-stick pushrod such that the sticks are vertical when the bellcrank is held in its neutral position. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Graves" <cgraves(at)secor.com>
Subject: Hartzell Propeller For Sale (Correction)....
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF Blades F7666A-2 (74") 205 hours Since Newly Overhauled July 22, 1998 Include Spinner (Fits Glasair I but may work for RV's?) $3500.00 Chuck Graves cgraves(at)secor.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Going to Lakeland!
Date: Mar 14, 2002
I finally got approval from all my bosses to go to Sun-N-Fun! Be there April 7, thru 10th. I plan to ride the demo -9A before I make my final decision to order, and let the "little woman" feel, touch, see what it is I'm so excited about. First, for those of you that have been before (We have not), any advice on what to take, not take, do, not do, see, etc. would be most appreciated. Second, if any of you -9 builders are planning on being there, let's get together for a brewsky and tell me about you joys and pains (easy on the pain part while the wife is around). Last, within reason, if I can research or look for anything for anyone that can't make it to FL themselves, I'll do my best to fit it in. Dutch Edmond, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Going to Lakeland!
Date: Mar 14, 2002
Dutch, I spend the entire week at Sun-n-Fun working in the Homebuilt area, generally helping park the planes. Ask anyone at the Homebuilt Headquarters to point me out. Dave Nicholson 90347 Waiting for Finishing Kit and Subaru Engine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RV9-List: Going to Lakeland! > > I finally got approval from all my bosses to go to Sun-N-Fun! Be there > April 7, thru 10th. > > I plan to ride the demo -9A before I make my final decision to order, and > let the "little woman" feel, touch, see what it is I'm so excited about. > > First, for those of you that have been before (We have not), any advice on > what to take, not take, do, not do, see, etc. would be most appreciated. > > Second, if any of you -9 builders are planning on being there, let's get > together for a brewsky and tell me about you joys and pains (easy on the > pain part while the wife is around). > > Last, within reason, if I can research or look for anything for anyone that > can't make it to FL themselves, I'll do my best to fit it in. > > Dutch > Edmond, OK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N6305N(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 2002
Subject: Re: Going to Lakeland!
Dutch, Go to Van's booth as soon as you get to Sun'n'Fun. The schedule for rides gets full mighty fast. At OSH the whole week was scheduled by the 2nd or 3rd day. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ewinne(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 2002
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/02
Dutch- I've been there a couple times, and I'll be there the 6th thru 11th this year. I'll be wearing a badge with my name on it. What to bring? a hat (or buy one there), GOOD walking shoes. When you get off the plane and get your rental car, make your first stop at a grocery dtore and buy a cheap cooler. fill it with bottled water and ice and keep it in the trunk (lemonade costs $3 at Sun-n-Fun). If they sell those $6 folding chairs from Wal-mart, get one of those. If you have a hand-held avation radio, bring it. It's fascinating to listen to the controllers bring in the planes. And bring an empty knapsack. You'll fill it. Ed Winne RV9A wings (QB fuse in the garage) Palmyra PA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Going to Lakeland!
Date: Mar 15, 2002
First thing, for sure! BTW, anybody know when they open on Sunday, the 7th? I wouldn't mind being first in line! We arrive Tampa on Saturday. Dutch >From: N6305N(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV9-List: Going to Lakeland! >Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:09:16 EST > > >Dutch, > Go to Van's booth as soon as you get to Sun'n'Fun. The schedule for >rides >gets full mighty fast. At OSH the whole week was scheduled by the 2nd or >3rd >day. > > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/02
Date: Mar 15, 2002
I plan to bring a backpack, like the kids use to carry school books. Will they let me throw in a couple of bottled waters in there? Hate to slepp all the way to the car when I get thirsty! As for the chairs, can one set up an area and leave them, and come back to that area, or have to carry them the entire time? Thanks for the other advice. Yes, have hat, handheld, and SUN SCREEN. Dutch >From: Ewinne(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/02 >Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:11:08 EST > > >Dutch- > >I've been there a couple times, and I'll be there the 6th thru 11th this >year. I'll be wearing a badge with my name on it. > >What to bring? a hat (or buy one there), GOOD walking shoes. When you get >off >the plane and get your rental car, make your first stop at a grocery dtore >and buy a cheap cooler. fill it with bottled water and ice and keep it in >the >trunk (lemonade costs $3 at Sun-n-Fun). If they sell those $6 folding >chairs >from Wal-mart, get one of those. If you have a hand-held avation radio, >bring >it. It's fascinating to listen to the controllers bring in the planes. And >bring an empty knapsack. You'll fill it. > >Ed Winne >RV9A wings (QB fuse in the garage) >Palmyra PA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner(at)wans.net>
Subject: RV-4 Project FOR SALE
Date: Mar 15, 2002
My fellow RVators, RV-4 Tail & Wing Kits FOR SALE Early 1980's Kit, Serial number is in the two digits. A VIRGIN (i.e. nearly untouched). Today's cost from Vans would be over $5400 for the same Kit (-with predrilled parts). This is a great opportunity to get started on a Van's RV-4, while at the same time saving some serious (engine) money over buying new! Please contact me OFF LIST if you are interested, and then make me a reasonable offer for the two Kits! Sincerely, Konrad Werner Albuquerque, NM. Connywerner(at)wans.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2002
From: Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: F-6111 Reinforcing Rib Installation
Several of the RV6 builders have complained that the F-6111 L&R Aft Skin Reinforcing Ribs (only found on the slider) are difficult to fit and install. Perhaps Van's has improved the parts but I had no problem with them. I clecoed on the Aft Top Skin (F-7112) and tried fitting the F-6111 ribs first on the outside. I cut off an average of about 1/4" from the rib bottoms and angled the ribs to fit properly against the F-718 (L&R) longerons. I then cut an inch or so from the rib tops and tried clecoing them in on the inside of the top skin, starting from the bottom. I then removed the clecos and trimmed (and sanded) material off the top until the ribs nearly touched the F-706A bulkhead. You have to trim in small increments to wind up with a rib end that does not overlap the bulkhead and yet allows enough margin for that top rivet. I probably trimmed off an inch from the top and removed material to somewhat below the top tooling hole in each rib. The bottom of the rib tooling holes are still in the part. Some builders have had to twist, flute or flair the ribs to make them fit, but mine did not require any of that. Leland ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dimple Dies
Date: Mar 16, 2002
From: "Kendall R. Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
I started to dimple the skins of the HS and they weren't coming out very well. I checked the archives and found out the ATS dimple dies don't work real well. Guess which ones I have? Are they still really that bad or could I have a technique problem? Avery has got theirs on sell right now. Should I go ahead and bite the bullet? Ken RV-8 (emennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Dimple Dies
Date: Mar 16, 2002
Ken......yeah, get some good springback dimple dies. At the very least the 3/32 size. Cleveland, Avery, maybe others have good ones. You will do probably on the order of 10,000 or more holes with them. There is a difference. I would also get the tank dies. I had to shave quite a few tank rivets just a hair to get them nice and flush, and we had tried hard to get them to seat well. I think they would also be good for some of the .032 and .040 sheets you need to dimple. The tail is more difficult. I don't think the RV-8 has any .016 skins, though, does it? If you do any .016 skins, take it easy with the C-frame and hammer, and also use a light touch when deburring. The squeezer is hard to use on them, too, because if you get off from perpedicular to the sheet, they distort easily. The .025 skins are just right.......they dimple easily, but are thick enough to not be delicate Gary 90263 nearing the finish kit. I started to dimple the skins of the HS and they weren't coming out very well. I checked the archives and found out the ATS dimple dies don't work real well. Guess which ones I have? Are they still really that bad or could I have a technique problem? Avery has got theirs on sell right now. Should I go ahead and bite the bullet? Ken RV-8 (emennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Dimple Dies
Date: Mar 17, 2002
You definitely want to spend the money for good dies. This holds true for all small tools. Most people will drop between $2000 and $3000 for specialized tools before the project is over. This is widely variable of course, depending on how much of the construction you intend to farm out. For example, paint, upholstery, and avionics all have specialized tools, all with big price tags. Don't fret over little things like dies. Spend the money and build the airplane right. If you want to recoup your expenses, rest assured that used aircraft tools are easy to sell. Gary N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Dimple Dies
Date: Mar 17, 2002
Hi Ken, I'm notorious for being frugal, but there are a couple of things that are definately spending good money for. One of them is tools. I never "cheap out" on my tools, and you'll find that dimple dies are one thing that get a LOT of use throughout your project. I'd opt for the higer grade dies, you'll be glad in the end. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6, Minneapolis. I started to dimple the skins of the HS and they weren't coming out very well. I checked the archives and found out the ATS dimple dies don't work real well. Guess which ones I have? Are they still really that bad or could I have a technique problem? Avery has got theirs on sell right now. Should I go ahead and bite the bullet? Ken RV-8 (emennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LUISFEMATT(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2002
Subject: Re:Percentage of completion
A question to those of you who have finished kits: I am just about to finish the empennage on an RV9-A, percentage wise, what percentage of the total project, paint included, would you say is done at this point? I feel that it would be about 5% to 8% but I really do not know. Luis F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2002
From: Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Flap Actuator Weldment
Van's powder coater put the uncoated strip of the Flap Actuator Weldment (WD-613EF-PC) for the center bearing block on the wrong side for my weldment. Several were shipped like this before it was discovered. Van's said to simply mount the center bearing block in the correct location, on a painted portion of the weldment, and to paint the uncoated strip, which is black in color. (This means orienting the weldment right for left so that the flap actuator can be attached to the weldment. The forward clevis-end of the weldment must be oriented up, as shown in detail E of DWG 33) Leland in Pleasanton, California ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Actuator Weldment
Date: Mar 18, 2002
I had the same issue with my Flap Actuator. Here's what Gus said: "We had a batch of those with the masking in the wrong place. The easiest thing is to put the block on the right rather than remove the powder coating. Gus" It seems to be working fine. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leland & Anne" <federigo(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RV9-List: Flap Actuator Weldment > > Van's powder coater put the uncoated strip of the Flap Actuator Weldment > (WD-613EF-PC) for the center bearing block on the wrong side for my > weldment. Several were shipped like this before it was discovered. Van's > said to simply mount the center bearing block in the correct location, > on a painted portion of the weldment, and to paint the uncoated strip, > which is black in color. (This means orienting the weldment right for > left so that the flap actuator can be attached to the weldment. The > forward clevis-end of the weldment must be oriented up, as shown in > detail E of DWG 33) > > Leland in Pleasanton, California ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2002
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Flap Actuator Weldment
I had the same conversation with Gus, and did the same; I moved the block to the other side. Barry Pote RV9a fuselage do not achieve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Flap Actuator Weldment
Date: Mar 18, 2002
I am not sure what you mean by "orienting the weldment right for left so that the flap actuator can be attached to the weldment." Mine had the bare spot on the right side, too. I just put the block on the right side, and lined it up on the rib. No problem. Gary I had the same issue with my Flap Actuator. Here's what Gus said: "We had a batch of those with the masking in the wrong place. The easiest thing is to put the block on the right rather than remove the powder coating. Gus" It seems to be working fine. Dave 90347 > > Van's powder coater put the uncoated strip of the Flap Actuator Weldment > (WD-613EF-PC) for the center bearing block on the wrong side for my > weldment. Several were shipped like this before it was discovered. Van's > said to simply mount the center bearing block in the correct location, > on a painted portion of the weldment, and to paint the uncoated strip, > which is black in color. (This means orienting the weldment right for > left so that the flap actuator can be attached to the weldment. The > forward clevis-end of the weldment must be oriented up, as shown in > detail E of DWG 33) > > Leland in Pleasanton, California = = messages. = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Flap Actuator Weldment
Date: Mar 19, 2002
ditto I just built it mirror image. I could see no reason not to. Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leland & Anne" <federigo(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RV9-List: Flap Actuator Weldment > > Van's powder coater put the uncoated strip of the Flap Actuator Weldment > (WD-613EF-PC) for the center bearing block on the wrong side for my > weldment. Several were shipped like this before it was discovered. Van's > said to simply mount the center bearing block in the correct location, > on a painted portion of the weldment, and to paint the uncoated strip, > which is black in color. (This means orienting the weldment right for > left so that the flap actuator can be attached to the weldment. The > forward clevis-end of the weldment must be oriented up, as shown in > detail E of DWG 33) > > Leland in Pleasanton, California > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Registering the plane
Date: Mar 19, 2002
03/19/2002 10:20:29 PM, Serialize complete at 03/19/2002 10:20:29 PM Hi All, I have started the process to register my 9A with the FAA. One of the things needed is a Bill of Sale for the kit. I called Vans today and they said that they will mail one out to me. The form is 8050-2 Aircraft Bill of Sale. Most of the rest of the forms can be found on the FAA web site or contact the local FSDO. They sent me a package with all of the forms and a list of the DAR's in the area that can inspect the plane. Regards Larry Perryman 90288 N194DL Conroe TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnCClarkVA(at)cs.com
Date: Mar 21, 2002
Subject: Re: Dimple Dies
The springback dies work great. Make sure you squeeze them hard enough to leave a sharper edge and a ring around the dimple. If you do not squeeze hard enough, the edges will be slightly rounded and the skin will appear wavey when you sight down the row of dimples. When sighting down the row of dimples, you should see a flat skin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Flying RV-9As
Date: Mar 21, 2002
Anyone have a count on the number of flying RV-9As out there. I can only think of 2-3 that I have heard of flying. I sent Vans a note to see if they had any info. Regards Larry Perryman 90288 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2002
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos
Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos I've got 5 copies of a Thunderbirds / Blue Angles video which we'll give away for Free to the first 5 people who ask for it along with any other regular order from Builder's Bookstore. It's a 50 minute video, 1/2 on the Thunderbirds, and 1/2 on the Blue Angels. The Thunderbird segment is excellent. The Blue Angels section is not as good. To get one, just write FREE THUNDERBIRDS VIDEO in the special instructions box on the Builder's Bookstore on-line order form, or say so if you prefer to order something by phone. Also, in case you are caller #6 or later, note if your regular order depends on whether there is a free video left to include in your package. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://buildersbooks.com 800 780-4115 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Flaps
Ok guys, how come everyone has been so quiet lately??? I just finished up my first flap last night and man is that a job! Kind of makes the tanks seem not that bad... For those with this fun still ahead it's just a bunch of riveting in very tight spaces blindly... But the satisfaction at the end is when you get to lay the flap on the bench and simply put in a ton of pop rivets! Along the way I found that I had to use -4 rivets on the skin to spar junction as the -3.5's were just too short as called out in the plans. 1 more flap to go, then finish up the ailerons... I didn't really think that the control surfaces were 3+ weeks of work. But hey these are the last control surfaces to fight with!!! -- Andy Karmy andy(at)karmy.com -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil" <Phil(at)camsnet.com>
Subject: Trim Tab Rib?
Date: Mar 22, 2002
I have heard of builders fabricating a rib for each end of the Tirm Tab instead of bending over each end. With that in mind, why not use Aluminum scrap to fabricate ribs instead of the foam? I believe I can squeeze the rivets using the 4" no hole C-yoke. and may have to blind rivet the last one on the under side. I like Aluminum and rivets over glue and foam. Best regards, Phil Johnston 78 ) Columbus, Ohio Phil(at)camsnet.com --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Navaid wing leveller installation
Date: Mar 22, 2002
Is anyone planning on putting a Navaid wing leveller intheir RV9? I would like to share thoughts on where to put it and how to connect it up to the ailerons. Issues that I am puzzling about: 1) I would like to drive the bellcrank direct, but am concerned the wingleveller crank does not have enough 'throw'. 2) Is the RV9 aileron system identical to the RV6. If so I should have no problem plagerising an installation. Steve #90360 N Yorks UK Working on the QB fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Rib?
Date: Mar 22, 2002
I really liked the way the foam rib worked out, just as per plans. It was easy, ends up firm, flat, smooth, and no holes. I almost wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to put them in the aft portion of the flaps and ailerons on the RV-4's and -6's and use shorter skin stiffeners. Gary I have heard of builders fabricating a rib for each end of the Tirm Tab instead of bending over each end. With that in mind, why not use Aluminum scrap to fabricate ribs instead of the foam? I believe I can squeeze the rivets using the 4" no hole C-yoke. and may have to blind rivet the last one on the under side. I like Aluminum and rivets over glue and foam. Best regards, Phil Johnston 78 ) Columbus, Ohio Phil(at)camsnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Rib?
From: "Ellis H Mcgaughy" <Ellis.H.Mcgaughy-1(at)usa.dupont.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2002
03/22/2002 05:15:51 PM I am unfamiliar with the "foam rib" concept. I'm an RV7 builder and have kit number 119 so I might not have the most up-to-date plans. My trim tabs simply fold over and it is suggested that if the trim tabs cause problems, they can be cut off and an aluminum rib fabbed. Are they suggesting a foam / fiberglass rib now instead? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 22, 2002
Subject: Re: Navaid wing leveller installation
Steve, I mounted the servo in the last rib bay of the right wing directly on the aft side of the spar. I made the pushrod out of a piece of 1/2 x .058 6061 if I remember correctly, I cut the pushrod that came with the navaid in half, and slid it inside the ends of the 1/2" tube then put a couple rivets through them, worked great. You will have to re-configure the servo arm 180 degrees, but its not too difficult if you follow the directions. Hope this helps, I saw this method on other RV6 bldr websites Kevin Shannon > Is anyone planning on putting a Navaid wing leveller intheir RV9? I > would like to share thoughts on where to put it and how to connect it up > to the ailerons. > > Issues that I am puzzling about: > 1) I would like to drive the bellcrank direct, but am concerned the > wingleveller crank does not have enough 'throw'. > 2) Is the RV9 aileron system identical to the RV6. If so I should have > no problem plagerising an installation. > > Steve > #90360 > N Yorks UK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Rib?
Date: Mar 22, 2002
The foam rib is very easy to work with . Don't make unnecessary work!! I traced the shape on tracing paper and used 3M spray adhesive to stick it to the foam. I then cut out the "rib" on my scroll saw and with very little sanding I was done. Use Pro-seal if you happen to have some mixed up. I didn't so I used silicone. One worthwhile change I did make (and not my idea, I believe it was Todd Hoag) was to make the trailing edge of the tab the same as the rest of the elevator by cutting the tab in two pieces and double flush riveting, this also makes it easy to get a nice bend on the end flaps. Gene.........getting ready for another one ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV-9A Milestone
Date: Mar 22, 2002
Today was a very good day. RV-9A N872RV (reserved) in sitting on the gear for the first time. Canopy is done and attached, wiring in the tail cone in place, antennas mounted and Monday I will attach the engine. Soon there will be one more RV in the air. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Navaid wing leveller installation
Date: Mar 22, 2002
Steve, I put my Navaid servo on the same bay as the bellcrank in my RV-9A wings. I attempted to install my servo in the same manner as RV-6 photos I've seen out there, but the bellcranks are not the same nor they attach in the same location as the RV-6s. In the end, I came up with my own design. Basically, I installed the servo in the wing bay on a mount similar to Sam Buchanan's, and drilled the Navaid provided bracket to the bellcrank. It wasn't too difficult, and I don't believe the additonal holes compromised the bellcrank assembly. You do have to provide plenty of clearance for the aileron pushrod, but it is easily accomplished when fabricating the mount. I weighted the mount, riveted and primed and it came in at 0.71 LBS. I am in the process of preparing some instructions for those who want to do a similar installation. If you want, e-mail me directly, and as soon as they are ready I'll send you a PDF file. Fabian 90292 (Started the Fuselage) fablef(at)bellsouth.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: RV9-List: Navaid wing leveller installation > > Is anyone planning on putting a Navaid wing leveller intheir RV9? I > would like to share thoughts on where to put it and how to connect it up > to the ailerons. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: RV-9A Milestone
Date: Mar 22, 2002
Albert, Great to hear about your progress! I'm looking forward to seeing some more RV-9's flying soon! Saturday May 4th is the Eighth Annual Twin Cities RV Forum put on by the Minnesota Wing of VAF. I recently got word that Jim Younkin (president of Tru Track autopilot systems) will be there with his RV-9A. I understand he purchased one of the first customer built RV9A's(I believe this was Kevin Shannon's plane?). Van's will be represented and I'm sure will have some good info on the RV-10. The forum has been moved to Anoka (KANE) airport this year and will be held at the Golden Wings Museum which has a huge display of remarkably restored aircraft! I there are any other RV-9A(or RV-9 ;) builders that plan on attending please drop me a note, I would like to connect with you. Todd Houg Ordering the Fuse this week after a sloooow building winter! -----Original Message----- From: Albert Gardner [SMTP:albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net] Subject: RV9-List: RV-9A Milestone Today was a very good day. RV-9A N872RV (reserved) in sitting on the gear for the first time. Canopy is done and attached, wiring in the tail cone in place, antennas mounted and Monday I will attach the engine. Soon there will be one more RV in the air. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ = = = = eJ8+IiwFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAtAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AAzABAAAAFwAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw AQAAABkAAAAncnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAcAAAAU01UUDpSVjkt TElTVEBNQVRST05JQ1MuQ09NAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABcAAABydjktbGlzdEBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAACAfdfAQAAAEsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABydjktbGlz dEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAFNNVFAAcnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9f AAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAJpXgEEgAEAHgAAAFJFOiBSVjktTGlzdDogUlYtOUEgTWlsZXN0 b25lABQJAQWAAwAOAAAA0gcDABYAFwADACoABQA7AQEggAMADgAAANIHAwAWABYAKQAVAAUASwEB CYABACEAAAA5RDBGRDJFRkUzM0RENjExQkIzRDAwQzA5NUVDMTc5QgBmBwEDkAYAIAoAACEAAAAL AAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQB+MGijS wQEeAHAAAQAAAB4AAABSRTogUlY5LUxpc3Q6IFJWLTlBIE1pbGVzdG9uZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAA AAHB0igagu/SD5494xHWuz0AwJXsF5sAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAUAAAA dGhvdWdAYXR0Z2xvYmFsLm5ldAADAAYQ7/joaQMABxCGCAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQUxCRVJULEdS RUFUVE9IRUFSQUJPVVRZT1VSUFJPR1JFU1NJTUxPT0tJTkdGT1JXQVJEVE9TRUVJTkdTT01FTU9S RVJWLTlTRkxZSU5HU09PTlNBVFVSREFZTUFZNFRISVNUSAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAAAHAAD8BgAA4wwA AExaRnVO8vNoPwAKAQMB9wKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKDQwBQDuZwcnEyD+Z9EwqACMggOwlv MjU1SwKACoF2CJB3awuAZNo0DGBjAFALA2MAQQtgwG5nMTAzMwumD+BkbGIEkHQsCqIKgEeFCXBh BUB0byBoF+CvBcABoAhgBUB5CGEgETAGbwnBBBAhIEknbUogCQBvFLFnIAIQcq53CxEYEg+gZRpy cwNwHGUgBGAJcAfwVi05YicEIGZseRuUAiAhFxdkF2QGEHQIcGRhecMF0B7BNHRoIAQAGBBBGFAg RWlnaB9BQchubnUHQCBUA/ADoDhDaXQIkAQgHHAgRjUFsHUaEHAY0QIgIGKrHtAfok0LgG4HkG8B kAQgVxpyb2YgVkFURi4Z4CAJcGMJ8HTJHPAgZyNQIHcFsBsRSw9wBUBKB3AgWQhgbtkUsSAoETAH kGkBAAIw3SPSVCHQJ4EA0GsYkBjQDG9wAxAlIXN5c3TwZW1zKSVAAxADIBcQbx+SHEED8B9BaB9x HHJB/yRCJlAEgSjwAHAbEB+xIhD+cg9hD6AbEAIgHAAj4R+ixGZpK6EgY3Uo8Bvh+QXAYnUDEAVA HHArAByw1igkYBcQbAiQdinCH3HbGuAEIEsvsCDhUw9wIGBPAiAcsQtRIyA/KSRAVv8AcByxKWYJ cCbCJLEssSvS/RnycwhwKiIpgQ9wL8Eb0/clEARwH2BuAhAiQh+iHHH7FiAkQFQtYiHDLIEpoQnw PxwRL8AbEyBQGlAjcChLmEFORSlAC3BycAkRvS/keRhjK+EpZhhQbDORezniHABHBvAnESODBCBN 9S4AZSHhdyqQD2A3gyNw6Gh1ZxwAZAQAC1Ee0Pcj4QlwAMByOOACYB7QGZHvGCAJcTlyBQBhAYAd myRgdynkCsBCEW4+0SniKsQo/wWxHHISwClALoIrgiWUMYL/IkIX8CkAFNAacgtQF+APoNs+YANg cBwQQhEgMSApALYsJFElUHU7gS+QaynBdxgwBaAjEWMlMSpSGQEurR2qVARwGxBICGBnF2TeTwsg BnEagR+iRj0BL+XfCeAoEQGALlEjcHMaMRpA/wfgRCMaciDRTTEdmwr0L5D8MzYBQBWgAUAZUSkA SODhEHQxNiAtUdJLUB/w6wuAIJFNGaFhPkBR0x2mL1DkULELE1DmaTagNDTjAUAvkDE4MAFADNBV c9ZiIaADYToMg2IW1jwQBwsRIyAFwFtTTVRQpjoHQBcSLmdYFEAlUa87gCMgWTBFgS5aIV0dpf9W oAZgAjBXB1bAJwAewEdwYx7wLGEgMjJHcAHQMAERYDY6NDEgUE2HWudKYFcHcnY5LS+QNSjwQADA dANgAwBjc4ouBaBtWuh1YmpI0dNXBy7hLUxfsToqxCLh/0YwLhEjIFN/VIpQNAu2F3O9UdA+YkdG 0VLTGUBvKPEXGxAigGLQIlecIiA8+1jvWfw+Sa0ewTBCI3AvwD5yJPI1kR6xJEBi5U44+wHAIYEo MyJfYAmAKUAg4f8AkAJAI6M2JD5ACsAXZBqx7y1JITAHgG5RQwBwKGAe0H0fcWQs4ivSRYEA0BhQ ZP9HcAPwS5Mg4R+iAZADEUiR/xwAC4EXcwtRJKBHcABwRaHfUnAEIARgJlAzdk0CIB6yf0eRKXJ0 RB+TCfBSUXLSU/8dYSnUF2QpZiziHCV1RjmBV0mVV5wXZFkh4GFHcEHGWk8eCoBfLT2BH4Ivv4M/ hE+EcICXbmCGLi024/1nJ0UAwAMRIbRTZYXkNvD/H3E3NB9xPpACIBvQQCIksf8toC+AIpIDYD4w edQIUAIw/wUQLoAhMIqxI9GFimdlBtD3K5FuUSYxJymBIyBtgRtS9yJwMQFNQmSNQTqCQpYasf9g tYXkI+E+cCSBBUCQsG2B/yEwAJBwiB7wYBUhpGBwgJ/flq+Xv5jPhN+F4iEZ0DlA1lebIYWKQgNg d0ZhYpS8IFVGYRkDTMBWoGKck/9x4RgwFHIfkwtgKQBniJWJ+YYhUGgjUBgwMOEJcJ0x/6GTGUCh Qj3hK+EtkGNxKjT/QrSOS5Wvpg+nH6gvme+N6f5SL4CfgTPRNdGR4BfwjRH9hY1QaEFSpp0xX29g eYXnAFVOL1NVQlNDMFJJQkWdMSAQdHBQOi8vd7HALq6rL/00MGIE9KwPoS2xT7JXonR/oaKFjZyM tX+yV540rlIv764WhY0GYFzTRXpDYtC5n1+yZ71ThY0HEA9gaS/Ac3+5Urlvsjlc0sFShY1nY1P+ cAWQBpA9gL4fski734Yk/k+j58GDxf+yZj8xKXHJYv+FjYyLxd+ySEiRjLeFjZSX/8GUzf+yZqUP 1L/Vz9bfqU8X2K+AKxHxANsgAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMKCu4vok0sEBQAAI MKCu4vok0sEBCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAAwAJgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAAeABOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQA AAA4LjAACwAXgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADABiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAGoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgApgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AKoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAKn1 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2002
From: DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com
Subject: Re. Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos
>It's a 50 minute video, 1/2 on the Thunderbirds, and >1/2 on the Blue Angels. The Thunderbird segment is >excellent. The Blue Angels section is not as good. How disappointing...the Blue Angels demonstrations are always so much superior to the "Thunder Chickens" I can't believe they failed to capture that on video! The dirty roll on takeoff has always been something to behold! Doug (son of a retired Naval Aviator who is building an RV-7 in Denver) OK City RV-9 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Larsen" <slickrock@been-there.com>
Subject: Re: RV-9A Milestone
Date: Mar 23, 2002
Todd, Does Jim Younkin have a website? I'm not familiar twith Tru Track. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Houg" <thoug(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9A Milestone > > Albert, > Great to hear about your progress! I'm looking forward to seeing some > more RV-9's flying soon! > > Saturday May 4th is the Eighth Annual Twin Cities RV Forum put on by the > Minnesota Wing of VAF. I recently got word that Jim Younkin (president > of Tru Track autopilot systems) will be there with his RV-9A. I > understand he purchased one of the first customer built RV9A's(I believe > this was Kevin Shannon's plane?). Van's will be represented and I'm sure > will have some good info on the RV-10. The forum has been moved to Anoka > (KANE) airport this year and will be held at the Golden Wings Museum > which has a huge display of remarkably restored aircraft! > > I there are any other RV-9A(or RV-9 ;) builders that plan on attending > please drop me a note, I would like to connect with you. > > Todd Houg > Ordering the Fuse this week after a sloooow building winter! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Albert Gardner [SMTP:albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 6:41 PM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV9-List: RV-9A Milestone > > > > Today was a very good day. RV-9A N872RV (reserved) in sitting on the > gear > for the first time. Canopy is done and attached, wiring in the tail > cone in > place, antennas mounted and Monday I will attach the engine. Soon there > will be one more RV in the air. > Albert Gardner > Yuma, AZ > > eJ8+IiwFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy > b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAtAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL > AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJv > bmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA > AB4AAzABAAAAFwAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw > AQAAABkAAAAncnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAcAAAAU01UUDpSVjkt > TElTVEBNQVRST05JQ1MuQ09NAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABcAAABydjktbGlzdEBt > YXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAACAfdfAQAAAEsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABydjktbGlz > dEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAFNNVFAAcnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9f > AAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAJpXgEEgAEAHgAAAFJFOiBSVjktTGlzdDogUlYtOUEgTWlsZXN0 > b25lABQJAQWAAwAOAAAA0gcDABYAFwADACoABQA7AQEggAMADgAAANIHAwAWABYAKQAVAAUASwEB > CYABACEAAAA5RDBGRDJFRkUzM0RENjExQkIzRDAwQzA5NUVDMTc5QgBmBwEDkAYAIAoAACEAAAAL > AAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQB+MGijS > wQEeAHAAAQAAAB4AAABSRTogUlY5LUxpc3Q6IFJWLTlBIE1pbGVzdG9uZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAA > AAHB0igagu/SD5494xHWuz0AwJXsF5sAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAUAAAA > dGhvdWdAYXR0Z2xvYmFsLm5ldAADAAYQ7/joaQMABxCGCAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQUxCRVJULEdS > RUFUVE9IRUFSQUJPVVRZT1VSUFJPR1JFU1NJTUxPT0tJTkdGT1JXQVJEVE9TRUVJTkdTT01FTU9S > RVJWLTlTRkxZSU5HU09PTlNBVFVSREFZTUFZNFRISVNUSAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAAAHAAD8BgAA4wwA > AExaRnVO8vNoPwAKAQMB9wKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKDQwBQDuZwcnEyD+Z9EwqACMggOwlv > MjU1SwKACoF2CJB3awuAZNo0DGBjAFALA2MAQQtgwG5nMTAzMwumD+BkbGIEkHQsCqIKgEeFCXBh > BUB0byBoF+CvBcABoAhgBUB5CGEgETAGbwnBBBAhIEknbUogCQBvFLFnIAIQcq53CxEYEg+gZRpy > cwNwHGUgBGAJcAfwVi05YicEIGZseRuUAiAhFxdkF2QGEHQIcGRhecMF0B7BNHRoIAQAGBBBGFAg > RWlnaB9BQchubnUHQCBUA/ADoDhDaXQIkAQgHHAgRjUFsHUaEHAY0QIgIGKrHtAfok0LgG4HkG8B > kAQgVxpyb2YgVkFURi4Z4CAJcGMJ8HTJHPAgZyNQIHcFsBsRSw9wBUBKB3AgWQhgbtkUsSAoETAH > kGkBAAIw3SPSVCHQJ4EA0GsYkBjQDG9wAxAlIXN5c3TwZW1zKSVAAxADIBcQbx+SHEED8B9BaB9x > HHJB/yRCJlAEgSjwAHAbEB+xIhD+cg9hD6AbEAIgHAAj4R+ixGZpK6EgY3Uo8Bvh+QXAYnUDEAVA > HHArAByw1igkYBcQbAiQdinCH3HbGuAEIEsvsCDhUw9wIGBPAiAcsQtRIyA/KSRAVv8AcByxKWYJ > cCbCJLEssSvS/RnycwhwKiIpgQ9wL8Eb0/clEARwH2BuAhAiQh+iHHH7FiAkQFQtYiHDLIEpoQnw > PxwRL8AbEyBQGlAjcChLmEFORSlAC3BycAkRvS/keRhjK+EpZhhQbDORezniHABHBvAnESODBCBN > 9S4AZSHhdyqQD2A3gyNw6Gh1ZxwAZAQAC1Ee0Pcj4QlwAMByOOACYB7QGZHvGCAJcTlyBQBhAYAd > myRgdynkCsBCEW4+0SniKsQo/wWxHHISwClALoIrgiWUMYL/IkIX8CkAFNAacgtQF+APoNs+YANg > cBwQQhEgMSApALYsJFElUHU7gS+QaynBdxgwBaAjEWMlMSpSGQEurR2qVARwGxBICGBnF2TeTwsg > BnEagR+iRj0BL+XfCeAoEQGALlEjcHMaMRpA/wfgRCMaciDRTTEdmwr0L5D8MzYBQBWgAUAZUSkA > SODhEHQxNiAtUdJLUB/w6wuAIJFNGaFhPkBR0x2mL1DkULELE1DmaTagNDTjAUAvkDE4MAFADNBV > c9ZiIaADYToMg2IW1jwQBwsRIyAFwFtTTVRQpjoHQBcSLmdYFEAlUa87gCMgWTBFgS5aIV0dpf9W > oAZgAjBXB1bAJwAewEdwYx7wLGEgMjJHcAHQMAERYDY6NDEgUE2HWudKYFcHcnY5LS+QNSjwQADA > dANgAwBjc4ouBaBtWuh1YmpI0dNXBy7hLUxfsToqxCLh/0YwLhEjIFN/VIpQNAu2F3O9UdA+YkdG > 0VLTGUBvKPEXGxAigGLQIlecIiA8+1jvWfw+Sa0ewTBCI3AvwD5yJPI1kR6xJEBi5U44+wHAIYEo > MyJfYAmAKUAg4f8AkAJAI6M2JD5ACsAXZBqx7y1JITAHgG5RQwBwKGAe0H0fcWQs4ivSRYEA0BhQ > ZP9HcAPwS5Mg4R+iAZADEUiR/xwAC4EXcwtRJKBHcABwRaHfUnAEIARgJlAzdk0CIB6yf0eRKXJ0 > RB+TCfBSUXLSU/8dYSnUF2QpZiziHCV1RjmBV0mVV5wXZFkh4GFHcEHGWk8eCoBfLT2BH4Ivv4M/ > hE+EcICXbmCGLi024/1nJ0UAwAMRIbRTZYXkNvD/H3E3NB9xPpACIBvQQCIksf8toC+AIpIDYD4w > edQIUAIw/wUQLoAhMIqxI9GFimdlBtD3K5FuUSYxJymBIyBtgRtS9yJwMQFNQmSNQTqCQpYasf9g > tYXkI+E+cCSBBUCQsG2B/yEwAJBwiB7wYBUhpGBwgJ/flq+Xv5jPhN+F4iEZ0DlA1lebIYWKQgNg > d0ZhYpS8IFVGYRkDTMBWoGKck/9x4RgwFHIfkwtgKQBniJWJ+YYhUGgjUBgwMOEJcJ0x/6GTGUCh > Qj3hK+EtkGNxKjT/QrSOS5Wvpg+nH6gvme+N6f5SL4CfgTPRNdGR4BfwjRH9hY1QaEFSpp0xX29g > eYXnAFVOL1NVQlNDMFJJQkWdMSAQdHBQOi8vd7HALq6rL/00MGIE9KwPoS2xT7JXonR/oaKFjZyM > tX+yV540rlIv764WhY0GYFzTRXpDYtC5n1+yZ71ThY0HEA9gaS/Ac3+5Urlvsjlc0sFShY1nY1P+ > cAWQBpA9gL4fski734Yk/k+j58GDxf+yZj8xKXHJYv+FjYyLxd+ySEiRjLeFjZSX/8GUzf+yZqUP > 1L/Vz9bfqU8X2K+AKxHxANsgAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMKCu4vok0sEBQAAI > MKCu4vok0sEBCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA > AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAAwAJgAggBgAA > AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAAeABOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQA > AAA4LjAACwAXgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADABiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA > RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAGoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgApgAggBgAAAAAA > wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AKoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB > AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA > AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAKn1 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Navaid wing leveller installation
Date: Mar 23, 2002
Kevin - thanks for that. Yours was a 9 wasnt it, not a 6? If I understand your installation the navaid pushrod was connected to the same bolt on the bellcrank as the pushrod from the stick and orientated as an extension to it. This is what I plan to do though since I can do the installation before the skin goes on I will put it in the same bay as the bellcrank. My concern is that the total 'throw' or left/right movement of the bellcrank bolt exceeds (or equals) that of the navaid outermost mounting hole. Since the bellcrank moves more in one direction than the other (differential ailerons) unless the navaid can believe the 'middle' position is not at the vertical position (I dont think it can) the system will run up against its limit before the ailerons hit the stops. (Thats hard to explain!) Clearly you did not have this problem. What am I missing? Thanks, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Navaid wing leveller installation > > Steve, I mounted the servo in the last rib bay of the right wing directly on > the aft side of the spar. I made the pushrod out of a piece of 1/2 x .058 > 6061 if I remember correctly, I cut the pushrod that came with the navaid in > half, and slid it inside the ends of the 1/2" tube then put a couple rivets > through them, worked great. You will have to re-configure the servo arm 180 > degrees, but its not too difficult if you follow the directions. > Hope this helps, I saw this method on other RV6 bldr websites > Kevin Shannon > > > Is anyone planning on putting a Navaid wing leveller intheir RV9? I > > would like to share thoughts on where to put it and how to connect it up > > to the ailerons. > > > > Issues that I am puzzling about: > > 1) I would like to drive the bellcrank direct, but am concerned the > > wingleveller crank does not have enough 'throw'. > > 2) Is the RV9 aileron system identical to the RV6. If so I should have > > no problem plagerising an installation. > > > > Steve > > #90360 > > N Yorks UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Navaid wing leveller installation
Date: Mar 23, 2002
Fabian - I have just replied to Kevin but now I have seen your mail. You say "and drilled the Navaid provided bracket to the bellcrank". I dont seem to have such a bracket. You attached it to the VANS supplied bellcrank? What was the effect? Presumably it reduced the 'throw' required from the Navaid? Was the Navaid bracket somthing they deemed necessary for an RV9? Why did they send it to you? Were VANS happy with the bellcrank being drilled? pdf file, ........please please please! Many thanks, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Navaid wing leveller installation > > Steve, > > I put my Navaid servo on the same bay as the bellcrank in my RV-9A wings. I > attempted to install my servo in the same manner as RV-6 photos I've seen > out there, but the bellcranks are not the same nor they attach in the same > location as the RV-6s. In the end, I came up with my own design. > > Basically, I installed the servo in the wing bay on a mount similar to Sam > Buchanan's, and drilled the Navaid provided bracket to the bellcrank. It > wasn't too difficult, and I don't believe the additonal holes compromised > the bellcrank assembly. You do have to provide plenty of clearance for the > aileron pushrod, but it is easily accomplished when fabricating the mount. > I weighted the mount, riveted and primed and it came in at 0.71 LBS. > > I am in the process of preparing some instructions for those who want to do > a similar installation. If you want, e-mail me directly, and as soon as > they are ready I'll send you a PDF file. > > Fabian > 90292 > (Started the Fuselage) > fablef(at)bellsouth.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> > To: > Subject: RV9-List: Navaid wing leveller installation > > > > > > > Is anyone planning on putting a Navaid wing leveller intheir RV9? I > > would like to share thoughts on where to put it and how to connect it up > > to the ailerons. > > = > = messages. > = > = > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2002
From: Tim Coldenhoff <borg(at)primenet.com>
RV9a Mailing List
Subject: Anybody know Quinti-Avio props?
Howdy all - I am seriously interested in the Eggenfellner Subaru package for my RV-9a. Jan lists the 'Quinti Avio' electric CS prop as the preferred prop, and I was wondering if anybody has any direct experience with it. ( climbandcruisepropellers.com ). I can't seem to find any information from the usual search sites or the Matronics archives. Seems like a decent engine package, but it makes me a tad leary to think the number of Quinti props sold is equal (or less than) the number of Eggenfellner Subarus sold... Anybody know anything about it? BTW, not to be rude but please, no debates on auto vs certified or that sort of stuff. Those of us that get the digest mode can't just hit 'Delete'! Thanks, - Tim. www.primenet.com/~borg -9a: Wings: Finishing right tank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Anybody know Quinti-Avio props?
Date: Mar 23, 2002
This should be in the subaruaircraft newsgroup rather than here, but to take a shot at an answer,,, Climbandcruise prop is a one-man operation (Bob Warfel) down in florida. These props are standard Warp-Drive blades, set in Quinty hubs (manufactured in Italy), and controlled by an electronic speed/pitch circuit that I belive Bob builds. The Warp-Drive blades are unmodified. In fact, I believe you can buy them from whatever vendor you like. The hub is a very well constructed unit. The controller comes in manual or automatic models. The thing that makes this well-suited for Eggenfellner motors is the close working relationship between Jan and Bob. For example, when Jan first flew his RV6A, he didn't like the way the automatic controller took over, so he had Bob change it to his liking. You won't find many other vendors who would optimize their product for a single vendor. There are many other composite props that would work fine on this motor. Even a ground-adjustable one is OK, but to get the most out of it, this prop/hub/controller is the best match for this motor. The price is quite reasonable too, compared to an MT (as in MT-your-pockets). Gary (motor delivery has slipped to end of April,,, oh well, Sun-N-Fun will fill the void). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: RV-9A Milestone
Date: Mar 23, 2002
Dale, Here's a link to Jim's web site - TruTrak Flight Systems. http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ They have some very nice autopilot systems, but they're not cheap! With single axis units starting at $2500, they kinda fill the price niche between the low end Navaid and the more expensive S-Tec units. Todd -----Original Message----- From: Dale Larsen [SMTP:slickrock@been-there.com] Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-9A Milestone Todd, Does Jim Younkin have a website? I'm not familiar twith Tru Track. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Houg" <thoug(at)attglobal.net> Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9A Milestone > > Albert, > Great to hear about your progress! I'm looking forward to seeing some > more RV-9's flying soon! > > Saturday May 4th is the Eighth Annual Twin Cities RV Forum put on by the > Minnesota Wing of VAF. I recently got word that Jim Younkin (president > of Tru Track autopilot systems) will be there with his RV-9A. I > understand he purchased one of the first customer built RV9A's(I believe > this was Kevin Shannon's plane?). Van's will be represented and I'm sure > will have some good info on the RV-10. The forum has been moved to Anoka > (KANE) airport this year and will be held at the Golden Wings Museum > which has a huge display of remarkably restored aircraft! > > I there are any other RV-9A(or RV-9 ;) builders that plan on attending > please drop me a note, I would like to connect with you. > > Todd Houg > Ordering the Fuse this week after a sloooow building winter! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Albert Gardner [SMTP:albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 6:41 PM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV9-List: RV-9A Milestone > > > > Today was a very good day. RV-9A N872RV (reserved) in sitting on the > gear > for the first time. Canopy is done and attached, wiring in the tail > cone in > place, antennas mounted and Monday I will attach the engine. Soon there > will be one more RV in the air. > Albert Gardner > Yuma, AZ > > eJ8+IiwFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy > b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAtAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL > AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJv > bmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA > AB4AAzABAAAAFwAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw > AQAAABkAAAAncnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAcAAAAU01UUDpSVjkt > TElTVEBNQVRST05JQ1MuQ09NAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABcAAABydjktbGlzdEBt > YXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAACAfdfAQAAAEsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABydjktbGlz > dEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAFNNVFAAcnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9f > AAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAJpXgEEgAEAHgAAAFJFOiBSVjktTGlzdDogUlYtOUEgTWlsZXN0 > b25lABQJAQWAAwAOAAAA0gcDABYAFwADACoABQA7AQEggAMADgAAANIHAwAWABYAKQAVAAUASwEB > CYABACEAAAA5RDBGRDJFRkUzM0RENjExQkIzRDAwQzA5NUVDMTc5QgBmBwEDkAYAIAoAACEAAAAL > AAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQB+MGijS > wQEeAHAAAQAAAB4AAABSRTogUlY5LUxpc3Q6IFJWLTlBIE1pbGVzdG9uZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAA > AAHB0igagu/SD5494xHWuz0AwJXsF5sAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAUAAAA > dGhvdWdAYXR0Z2xvYmFsLm5ldAADAAYQ7/joaQMABxCGCAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQUxCRVJULEdS > RUFUVE9IRUFSQUJPVVRZT1VSUFJPR1JFU1NJTUxPT0tJTkdGT1JXQVJEVE9TRUVJTkdTT01FTU9S > RVJWLTlTRkxZSU5HU09PTlNBVFVSREFZTUFZNFRISVNUSAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAAAHAAD8BgAA4wwA > AExaRnVO8vNoPwAKAQMB9wKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKDQwBQDuZwcnEyD+Z9EwqACMggOwlv > MjU1SwKACoF2CJB3awuAZNo0DGBjAFALA2MAQQtgwG5nMTAzMwumD+BkbGIEkHQsCqIKgEeFCXBh > BUB0byBoF+CvBcABoAhgBUB5CGEgETAGbwnBBBAhIEknbUogCQBvFLFnIAIQcq53CxEYEg+gZRpy > cwNwHGUgBGAJcAfwVi05YicEIGZseRuUAiAhFxdkF2QGEHQIcGRhecMF0B7BNHRoIAQAGBBBGFAg > RWlnaB9BQchubnUHQCBUA/ADoDhDaXQIkAQgHHAgRjUFsHUaEHAY0QIgIGKrHtAfok0LgG4HkG8B > kAQgVxpyb2YgVkFURi4Z4CAJcGMJ8HTJHPAgZyNQIHcFsBsRSw9wBUBKB3AgWQhgbtkUsSAoETAH > kGkBAAIw3SPSVCHQJ4EA0GsYkBjQDG9wAxAlIXN5c3TwZW1zKSVAAxADIBcQbx+SHEED8B9BaB9x > HHJB/yRCJlAEgSjwAHAbEB+xIhD+cg9hD6AbEAIgHAAj4R+ixGZpK6EgY3Uo8Bvh+QXAYnUDEAVA > HHArAByw1igkYBcQbAiQdinCH3HbGuAEIEsvsCDhUw9wIGBPAiAcsQtRIyA/KSRAVv8AcByxKWYJ > cCbCJLEssSvS/RnycwhwKiIpgQ9wL8Eb0/clEARwH2BuAhAiQh+iHHH7FiAkQFQtYiHDLIEpoQnw > PxwRL8AbEyBQGlAjcChLmEFORSlAC3BycAkRvS/keRhjK+EpZhhQbDORezniHABHBvAnESODBCBN > 9S4AZSHhdyqQD2A3gyNw6Gh1ZxwAZAQAC1Ee0Pcj4QlwAMByOOACYB7QGZHvGCAJcTlyBQBhAYAd > myRgdynkCsBCEW4+0SniKsQo/wWxHHISwClALoIrgiWUMYL/IkIX8CkAFNAacgtQF+APoNs+YANg > cBwQQhEgMSApALYsJFElUHU7gS+QaynBdxgwBaAjEWMlMSpSGQEurR2qVARwGxBICGBnF2TeTwsg > BnEagR+iRj0BL+XfCeAoEQGALlEjcHMaMRpA/wfgRCMaciDRTTEdmwr0L5D8MzYBQBWgAUAZUSkA > SODhEHQxNiAtUdJLUB/w6wuAIJFNGaFhPkBR0x2mL1DkULELE1DmaTagNDTjAUAvkDE4MAFADNBV > c9ZiIaADYToMg2IW1jwQBwsRIyAFwFtTTVRQpjoHQBcSLmdYFEAlUa87gCMgWTBFgS5aIV0dpf9W > oAZgAjBXB1bAJwAewEdwYx7wLGEgMjJHcAHQMAERYDY6NDEgUE2HWudKYFcHcnY5LS+QNSjwQADA > dANgAwBjc4ouBaBtWuh1YmpI0dNXBy7hLUxfsToqxCLh/0YwLhEjIFN/VIpQNAu2F3O9UdA+YkdG > 0VLTGUBvKPEXGxAigGLQIlecIiA8+1jvWfw+Sa0ewTBCI3AvwD5yJPI1kR6xJEBi5U44+wHAIYEo > MyJfYAmAKUAg4f8AkAJAI6M2JD5ACsAXZBqx7y1JITAHgG5RQwBwKGAe0H0fcWQs4ivSRYEA0BhQ > ZP9HcAPwS5Mg4R+iAZADEUiR/xwAC4EXcwtRJKBHcABwRaHfUnAEIARgJlAzdk0CIB6yf0eRKXJ0 > RB+TCfBSUXLSU/8dYSnUF2QpZiziHCV1RjmBV0mVV5wXZFkh4GFHcEHGWk8eCoBfLT2BH4Ivv4M/ > hE+EcICXbmCGLi024/1nJ0UAwAMRIbRTZYXkNvD/H3E3NB9xPpACIBvQQCIksf8toC+AIpIDYD4w > edQIUAIw/wUQLoAhMIqxI9GFimdlBtD3K5FuUSYxJymBIyBtgRtS9yJwMQFNQmSNQTqCQpYasf9g > tYXkI+E+cCSBBUCQsG2B/yEwAJBwiB7wYBUhpGBwgJ/flq+Xv5jPhN+F4iEZ0DlA1lebIYWKQgNg > d0ZhYpS8IFVGYRkDTMBWoGKck/9x4RgwFHIfkwtgKQBniJWJ+YYhUGgjUBgwMOEJcJ0x/6GTGUCh > Qj3hK+EtkGNxKjT/QrSOS5Wvpg+nH6gvme+N6f5SL4CfgTPRNdGR4BfwjRH9hY1QaEFSpp0xX29g > eYXnAFVOL1NVQlNDMFJJQkWdMSAQdHBQOi8vd7HALq6rL/00MGIE9KwPoS2xT7JXonR/oaKFjZyM > tX+yV540rlIv764WhY0GYFzTRXpDYtC5n1+yZ71ThY0HEA9gaS/Ac3+5Urlvsjlc0sFShY1nY1P+ > cAWQBpA9gL4fski734Yk/k+j58GDxf+yZj8xKXHJYv+FjYyLxd+ySEiRjLeFjZSX/8GUzf+yZqUP > 1L/Vz9bfqU8X2K+AKxHxANsgAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMKCu4vok0sEBQAAI > MKCu4vok0sEBCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA > AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAAwAJgAggBgAA > AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAAeABOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQA > AAA4LjAACwAXgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADABiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA > RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAGoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgApgAggBgAAAAAA > wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AKoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB > AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA > AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAKn1 > > = = = = eJ8+IgQVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAtAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AAzABAAAAFwAAAHJ2OS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw AQAAABkAAAAncnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAcAAAAU01UUDpSVjkt TElTVEBNQVRST05JQ1MuQ09NAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABcAAABydjktbGlzdEBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tAAACAfdfAQAAAEsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABydjktbGlz dEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAFNNVFAAcnY5LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9f AAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAJpXgEEgAEAHgAAAFJFOiBSVjktTGlzdDogUlYtOUEgTWlsZXN0 b25lABQJAQWAAwAOAAAA0gcDABcADwAuAAIABgA4AQEggAMADgAAANIHAwAXAA8AKAAeAAYATgEB CYABACEAAABEMUEyMjczQzczM0VENjExQkIzRDAwQzA5NUVDMTc5QgAsBwEDkAYA3BsAACEAAAAL AAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQAmXILTS wQEeAHAAAQAAAB4AAABSRTogUlY5LUxpc3Q6IFJWLTlBIE1pbGVzdG9uZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAA AAHB0rQgjzwnotI+cxHWuz0AwJXsF5sAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAUAAAA dGhvdWdAYXR0Z2xvYmFsLm5ldAADAAYQR5zQhwMABxBcHAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAREFMRSxIRVJF U0FMSU5LVE9KSU1TV0VCU0lURS1UUlVUUkFLRkxJR0hUU1lTVEVNU0hUVFA6Ly9XV1dUUlVUUkFL RkxJR0hUU1lTVEVNU0NPTS9USEVZSEFWRVNPTUVWRVJZTgAAAAACAQkQAQAAALsYAAC3GAAAmyUA AExaRnV9G3+tPwAKAQMB9wKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKDQwBQDuZwcnEyD+Z9EwqACMggOwlv MjU1SwKACoF2CJB3awuAZNo0DGBjAFALA2MAQQtgQG5nMTAzMwumIHJEB0BlLAqiCoQKgEiJBJBl JwQgYSBsC4DAayB0byBKB3AYQRB3ZWIgAJB0ZSCgLSBUcnUaIGEYwLJGGJBnaAVABrBzGdAYbXMu F0oa4HRwOsgvL3ccwC50GjAdADUacGYas3MbJQWgbS9BF0pUaGV5IA9wdt0Z4HMDcBngH8ByH4AD AEpjGeBhHSBvcAMQb+MFQB3VLCBiHSAY0B9hHicJcCCAIVEPYGVhcOghIFcZwGgZoRYAFxDlGGB4 BAAgdQMAHcAZoF8BkAAgI+EYYAVAJBPwMLYwIfAiUiAUshhwZgMQewMgIlEgETAgoiCRJzFifw+w GXAJ8CcTCQAH4AnwZP8HsB+wC3ApQABwKUAnIgRgcSKhZXhwCfAAkB/BU/wtVAWQJIQbiwyCGhAE cM8LMSwpCwMYkDM2AUAVoC8BQBEwIVAFkHQQdDE26xnwMBJPBRBnC4AHQAXQ4QeQc2FnZTATF0Yv JAcu8QsTLyZpLTE0NPMBQBiQMTgl4AzBM7MZkCpGA2E6DINiFtQgTAMPggOgW1NNVFA6snMYkGNr A2A3IEAoIN0J8C0iUQlwHkJdF0UZkG8GYAIwNUcGEHQIcCageY0h8E0KwA9gIDIzIfCNAdAwEWAW IDozNA/gDk04hy0QNUdydjkt+xiQGzBAAMAdAAIgIKAeMzE4iHViai9RNUdSZWo6B/BWPVBMPYFA Qi08OUEF0AMQB5AY4G5lvzG/MsoudAu2F1MwED5AVzcqQDEEJ1BvGzEpQGJ5xUBAIjXZIiA8Nv84 Bc4+HpstIRc7RG8HkRkR/CBZCGAYsAuAH5QYcBlxwRmyPyAgSSdLsCLS+GZhbQMQBzAFwChAI5J3 GiEaEQDQaxuLH1AAcGvfIeBKixcBRJYwESAwbjAETxdENQNG4C0SIEgIYGdXR7EiUFTxQCWAdCQA b+piB0AuQdB0SWU8gUfA3z0/HjNJZT8mB/BFQE9BX/8XWUUQRP9GDVSXVT9WSWCWvQ/gbCggACAX NVzQRwlwfyWBGOEjIQXAAaAIYAVAefsIYSdRbwnBBBAjYE1iCQDObxSxJWACEHJ3CxEY0v0PoGUl Qh/yXDYqU1qCGEHtHXB5ZlQCICFgrTnmOnHdH4A0I6EkYSciRRrCI7DQQW5udTDBVAPwA6B+QxnA CJAEIFngGpAFsHX9S7BwIiECIEahIkJcNlrgP2vAB5AhUBhwI4AlUW9m4CBWQUYuTVA9IAWQ0zkh aCAgZyFRdwWwKfL7JYFLmigRMAeQKaA5IVw252+xTtcg33MpGWAm4igg9yJCIqFOg2gkYVqDcBFc Nv8kkASBJPEpMScyCHAPYQ+gfylAQcFvoiciJtB4USMAdX9BoQeABcAiEAMQBUBZ4UHdGEAocDAo IBiQZR/AXDZvIlAkYWWgBCBLfGBMIVM7UEEi0G4YQQtRQdA/Kf1wEFYAcBlCdbUJcHKSOSH3RoEp 0k1icwhwZsd1ox+o93DgBHBqwG4CEG2iJyJagf8WIHAQH1FlYm1BeTEoEShxXwRgH8Bl02uwZRBh XDYosEtBTkV1gAtwckZAewAgfQR5YyMpMXWmH2BsfymxIjNicAbwcuFvUwQgTf16sGVtQIGXdtA6 sYUiGHD2aFUAGeBkBAALUR+Ab7H7CXAAwHKGcAJgH4BkURjg9wlxh3IFAGEBgGjOcDB2JLsKwCDB bo1BN+JadCgFsf9aghLAdYB7MngycWR+om2i/1/BKSEj4Vw2C1AjMA+gjND9A2BwXXEYYSLRFyBw IXEg9nWJgRiQa3YBGPAFoG7h/y9gdnRjwRuFYQdUl1w2MGD3BIElQiciRosBfQUJ4HRR/wGAewEY cEfgZQBlAAfgksP/JUJsMZyRaM4wHzEtXNBUJP+h1WGUYnALEUHQBcA2lAdA6WGyLmei1EBxIYmA VlH+Ll/BVkI4dWmhOSKh1jUACymgOkkyOwU2OjQx/CBQO+WZgqHHV08+SWmh/1kmodVZ70F8ntlc 30Ysolz6Iq7mPKOvpLxgni0RaiF/fWIYcCBDgwM6MXAQrXVO9jgBwGzhKIBCqgAJgHWA/0whGbEl M4OkruYxQArArubfZXF5+SUwB4C3cUMAcCEQ+x+AJGFkeZIp0l/BANAfYP9KYHWRmvNMISciAZAD EK7m/5ehGeALgZTHANCWcQBwlEHfoAAEIARgJJCAlk0CIGoSf5ahJuK99CcTCfCf4byCU/9okXYU gZt18XmSZ1W+9oeBV5imok2u5lltQGEh8EEGWmCsF0RlSjgrSQBpd0ZBUWFRQ1hBQUXMgMyzQsyD UUBlUUJnQUnMsjUvzDDMtUtAzIFJzcBjQQJHzLJFbFFUUzURKWBXTnlgq2IzTgB2Wm5RZ1RXRqBw YkM1T9FAUgcA9kTPEMwwMs0SzHHMsc3AgcxyRWtBWUF0zJOrzKPOVHfMgE3N1Exgq0nMgDhPzLRJ QhywOBvNIcyAU9VRzLRDQksAeCtrdnFNUUcIWjF1hzAwQkQxA8xizLFISjJPUzGNMSBY2aDZQDFo ZNpgAnbQfG1samN5NQRqYgHQQVUwMVVCVc0QeWRqawJQRwBsemRFQnRZWIRSedzgNXBZM4rw2Fky OdRAzIBl11HVUIfOU91gzQFUVFZSzlNp1gxCNMyAes0SzIBGH9gi2m/bcNxq1WJGUXfD18PVQEQr RHfUIN9kbEV31gzOUkLUAMyxbkBjblk1TFcqsGMJ0lBBYtHQMGNtOSNr4NBAekxt0WBiU/PPUNNE RUzVgMyj6iPdI7BEcFNW3bFgq1TPwBPgoN4wTlHgsFNUMBA1SlExivBRMDm+TtVizsDn49Mg5VFP 6pDx5iRQWmbnhOoi3Yxgq8/eb9MSBXDwREVz2DbTgERTcxEgTDZq3jBtoGRiZ0RkzDA53WAfzcDw y2Cr3i/fMkZOTn5WzCDPQOhf6WnOUuXAOZRYd8yjRPAQOWbWDTnXNDln17TlZMyySnBaWOqQRc3A zKBI9nJGoEpGT2lC6/NU3fIBS0BnVWxZdE9V4/+w0cBsc1ra4dB8E/DRBwBCUUrMMFfVMtcD6DBn Y/ygQtQg4rH8oPMIUAORQTfMMP+wzcDVgOJE9nJOSUjVQQPwBOF+S85Qb+DgMdgQ+EBgq0ML1CDN IEPMozVSREIGRwmgAGBSa1V6TQowWaBO9ZB4UWtJNnoJoNVAUeJA0BBVVrJEo2BjNdGg9bBC/ED/ 7uHUIM3gzuEJNNX+zeHOU6/0gN/BzLTVUG3MtUzTIPvu9NViTPZz1SPS4MzW7uGBzaArTUdpalNg q30LUEXfkAbA1NTiAs0QUy5SqVABcvogVfpSUTYCSQBQV0xUbEJJpEUx0fBHVt4QR+lg9lrOU9dw Y85Q4mT2cdYNGEhCMGtQMTB1L1MARDU0OTR4SFcEdXrdAHdKWHNG/jX0geIBAADlVAWR4pH5lPva I83AZvygzKPgQuEcF0AwaHZkV/YQ+HEwWoAyeHZZbUZz6cAPA3D2EPyR1BBRNy9qhm/MUNWAQnhD R9MydwABFsDMk0IDgNTCFdBDQazgSlVMRWQTLFJEVUYLsEU5SSSxUxEjIEpQVuCwWlQxTFZTJMAl kFIxAGBVUDFOSlQV0FDt0HQ9JuBrF0Al8Bsg7ZBKRX0k8VQksCNwJ3HgkN0wRj0m8Dkj3SNwFnIo YGt4UlomIDVI3SA5JyBs3E5C+bAmEFmgRiXgJMC0Wk4KEEnr8AugU9hV3cwwa85QzlQUUUTXsPZx HDR31VDWDArAYVJugFZPOHZOb1DVUOeHICFw/jB3S9QAEtDMcBZHMHALUHLPQDJWMCUxcUjmkEtE 5UFRRCUXcHf58EV55dBaORXmkHHTIE0GAE93bHnbjE1qJrDYEIcgBWBGgDJDSkIzYXfZgIEscG8w REdCam/wJRBRMtWAUVFf4HdHrDVuo2DiME02cG3l0Afn0N3gFsBrSFFzQwhxSUvqkGVGQ1hkQmhg q0JVGcBt4EIxNfArQ3bwoTtQQWhbDDA7ADUhwP+wRTgwR3Bid25CPSA8ADkBbhRiVWQwQ82gdkZM BEZuzeBJUWNxNSAzQ3hFWf+wK2cMWlK9AGCrY3dOd1hIR1UMMM9wSs9QZuh3Vmnt4FlIAM8Q2VAp lXBSdd1gaTwARngsZGs2ANlARTkwSWOTCdBjEGNN6SBCN+1wuEhSb9Kxz2A9IUfMIP+UpiRVAhCg AP4wA6B5IFkgXG5VOTDYsN1gL87BRJZoUWAn4EkSkWdIBsDcZ1I1cCBAKzBhQ0DUEMfbAM8gQgBL ckjUQLtwBGswETBHNEhrR7fXsGCrSBJWFeDekVlL0IFC8FVSaTRaNMxwCUEwR03LwEhUSkiyUNOA WnntgAawYyBAtEJz7bB3MRA68Us2QEnTgFdRPBBidAowc5UtAG88sUhK3EdrzSFR38AzU1Dr8EM5 MEpCNMygMEdzWVFQalczABdQ1VB4YZBJ2uA1g/pwbCBaVzF6S+vwq8yAU0BEF+Ji2OBTMoDvDIDX sEZwRlF4YKtIUDYwOC95UjYgA4D/sFNqi9VQBsBi+EAreElHsNArY2c5R7A2V+HN0ANIQMyAajRS K2l48dlQcEs2/7De4D3A17DgdmgrUVjUEEbg0pCbB3FV/UEx8N2AdzFrUGxrWVTCQoBRlHFSADPe SN3g2YDPEPRwdjlQR6D2VU6xQgBCTbBCkKsAN7AdLKB5R1BUMPqQVnY4g89A3YB4S1dZSj+8GkPS AEojoGRwU3ZTKi8wEHlAgGgxIGlJBHBn9jB3TDhFYlAwL2NsUlBSQLAyWkLZgGhdYVqwaUhQSHw3 RkKQLaDlMPhgZRBEJkwWwIewUW7mrFB4/HdSY6BX4TtA2UADgNyQbENo6cAsEE/tsAOAQ+Yz3YDP UGtSYoGXQEOgiGpLK2ZAWmhoVOCyRGjgZXqq4AbAQhmwYnaGQEVTTwmw2LBOL49rKVDiECrwSNtA eXGTMwDS4DNnTfB3Nh8wnDFaZ4DKUM5BQzEUIMgwUGNZcFFs1VAw8Dx5T9cACOBEENlBSHa/IdFB MBaQaAE6ANQRZI9rim1XEGdtgG5rQ05gQQkwVzQrMFOq4Es9X5Bv15D6QEhQLLB3QxUDgExEcHKf 4FdVTdhZTC9IAFNwOBCB+YBSQcFAZ3RloCvwEG/oTnMr1CBORTxgkAtQK09w/7BNLQBwDYBZc+cA YM/ARvBVN/UgWsDDIGk9EGR4G+FhWWBzUE02bHig6+BHBeCBYFIyZnFbYGRAR3gWsCHAQtJuNgBU ZVPQc0U8fEAeRRoAWZFIkNmwTCtY/GZD5mBQENlADYBkENyQmkincE0/gEdQd2ZIgDM0EMFAaUQV QO0QZG2Ud3JKMDUuYE16XRDtzaBXLpDdYFos8DFAj2sna8F4cDkweE5CkHRVrmRiIDsA15A2NnFJ AGBiTqLARmhQUVAfwHjwMm1MMe7gI5EjoIXQxY2wVBoATkRUNxDdYPR2a9KQNOURzsAroT+8zDla YzB6cERZqVA0IPwySVQAV6DNoHywX8LisHZGAPDgonAhQDkw8KBT+enAZFl5MKJQSPC4ED3gMTQg V1RCGIDQAGFJwTIwZHBmOVePaw0AUloukGpCOfAxXVBKldVQZfxAZOYAeDdjkD88gTVgTZDPUDkw 6sFSWV2JQDaGwP+wAdAyGrFk3kuLwH9w+fN5sU5Xkc5Qn/yg92x3IdVANwBjNMIwnVWhdBrAbmAg IHBJjTAyTjnweTdokBXQZnMFqVBxIbBMaC8wWYtjkHhwahZATi9WY0CBkpBBdTJGM0/2QM/2EHcA J4G0+zBWFoBA0OE+EEtQRVh74EKASlC2TENgrgBjy/DW4CuJ0Mx2V0FgVRBhMI9QjKCUQ0lPMHbl wDV5JZAkSTFpkDZ4KBBCaXg1VTRzcECwzdA/IG9bNJycsGbUIA/gS/ZRNA5mYHAxQAPASTZNMo5K GlDTIPSAWFpClmD0N3kmgElQMUpQCZDlQYcxIM9wbzBIMGZjT2B4czRpYoCQ0FJROgBR/bT7WvzA kFEwkNAAiYBZgqtusdKQVX4gL26RQ1JAdlhAgF+wSk8QkFEMYFJgYUhmVW7PAWQwZw9XQd4QSiCc MEI2eWahm+BSS1hKAnxSEsBIVENmAKBVWJJgVXwvOIuwc6AkwEMQamBp4nplEENWMUiQDFAyMBJt JbA1d6EARmtoDjRFAE4wQ0BHV2s4MmUFYEJmFoBkcEg06El2dodwL7T7eHBqQC+a8Dng5DAhwExB kDI0eC8xbqlA3WBvsSygYpUVQFr4cGvRYEQvXdC2RdFQVcFQf9CokXY3oIWcMGv1QDh0b0N2oLVj QEmJQEQuwMrsZENgZ91g38DXkFVRdNA8AE2ySZZgSTlFALxgZBagQHREM0s1RkJgU3mPoEp5DFBf 0PhQSIB0NFM5nLB32TD5gFFt8lPtgFRxPfDe0MHwjWCffNz4YQrwakBYcENTPSDyVT3wc0dkcFcA 5pD/UI8MYACQj8BdEFVocDbwQneoEC9mbHF+gHZB3MBQaE4rRqMQRVZaNtADgDGa0GKeAFeXB1CG sHzcZB/QaFnr4OI4FkBWR1kKIIbQMPDEV29JoGNrL1XQWYCjG+CtUElma6awZwdQVXxAaRZgSncA WV7AR85nNXDNsLjAT0VBMKlAPHgvbkCZsWiAyntRajwzaGoxT7AxoGDAalROLzHga8DQAFd2Y1Ar AG5INmd2bWUrcE42ZjWLgEzggBBUJSZgThdAUjSuEHdqdFJIWKBZ2eBJACVQcNpwhYBY3zB83GX4 cKewfSvQT4XA+aBvkIbAQ+BKve4Aax9weKFdgBmwUQCACTBQZDcGwExxNnKNdXAwMkA48TlLd3bA klMf8FQ3GyBvbqYQUSFQS0ZqTeBNuhxYRCt5rLA0MHJTYHZwNzY0V8CgUnCLwHpJKGBYcIlAdEM4 ADFh0UBaNzFU0iEygEHN/kBhYpBggDMrnYDRoKFegGpsYzAbQFPJwfH6ADFQKz+8BvBxUH/QB/5A yICWIGtpNzM0A1KgadArajU4R0RTlhDTQWo4YMBY4wBZwna+QGpZeUxC0NFANFNFfiFMOcDQEFNY i6sAQNB62IJxVVCYu0YxdXAXIDliZttAOP/KgGowB0AaoFNAduCUIQXR//70BMF+8BC2DDCyIN9y LdFBf4BLQ3U0dkoRc/v4QC3RSTSc4BnvUOpx6oD/DDARRQ9GHaDmEy6hHgP8ZP0wsUMxgeTnHi7+ 8nKw/vPvT3DetRDyBOFJDpDkNe6x2xH15cRGz/AtUTMywA+Tbkri1uaf459Z5LcUMEL/cBHlredo vPEt0i3TLdDsLvw0TDcQLWCmQP+A4u/j+P8BUOS5nWDvL+Zf56VDoOg5/kcNAOkf6iedYBzlHTNj UP/zWRM8460wcB4CDUMcAxIE7RuwS/lv6glEOcAcIuwv3y3F7qTgIPX/52k08PjeBe0h9Dn+4pi1 IOqCHcMKMPcWMOTnznAvC/DlUdMgmLvjmRULWl8tPQyfDa8Ov5cPzw/wDBcgEZ8tINOQJGUgI2A5 LbCAc3QEIEWGcGlsIEZvvnI4gBKgEQrTkBNgIEoAyxQiFVFzZlBucxQQtVBgIGVudGkWcHEgIMh0 aHKUkGdoFzES8MOt8BbAcmlidRbQFjE4IG9mEQoTU8gAbWJQZXJzLhGgWZSQJ2JsE+BuZXYaUBYA ZTES8GJhbhsgG2BhZH8YwRwRYsAY0BfBG2AVgW3bEQoY4CBdkBZwYxOAHDCrG0EW0HNdoGcY0G4X s/9/kBgwz5BB0BVgFAMacAwfHyIvIz8kTxBfEWIhISDuTnNQJqERCkIXYHywEvDdE1I6EaBP0BLw eZSQG2A+d78AG7AoExtgs7AgdtZpj1AXs2wgIGUZ42JQ/4agKyAhGBGhvhAc4CpA1VDNmUBlKLEt EyBwLMIVYLsb0BaQZhPQKyApYGkXQP8c1RnLIS8xjzKfM68lbxlp52rgKvIWkEluHUIgIBiRNxEN dsATcU0rdCixcnY1EzBsE2FAN1EgRC5jdm8dexGhVZdQquCqkEMHX8DekCixaHR0cDqV33B3PUAu Oisvc0bA9HNjGEBwN38snjzPPdf/LfQtIhENKAxA/z3XKbQ50qYvOZYRDVNlmUBjF6D+RR9wXaAt UUUfPedI0xEN/1xwSQCjICsgRNJE7z25SOJfTNIRDRNTevAeoGkuoGPvSZ89yEdfEaRPL2dNA1F/ /z3mGiATwTnST44YC1FfPcj/OsAYKBENIBdNFFl/PeYwj79gP2FPYl80z2QvC6t9iLACAGagAAMA EBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzDAX9Jas9LBAUAACDDAX9Jas9LBAQsAAIAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAAMACYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAA AAAAHgATgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAsAF4AIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAYgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADABqACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AKYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAA AQAAAAAAAAAeACqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgArgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03 AAAPcg== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dutch Revenboer" <n507aa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re. Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos
Date: Mar 23, 2002
Doug, And you joined the Air Force? Your dad must have disowned you. Dutch >From: DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV9-List: Re. Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos >Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:29:09 EST > > > >It's a 50 minute video, 1/2 on the Thunderbirds, and >1/2 on the Blue >Angels. The Thunderbird segment is >excellent. The Blue Angels section is >not as good. > >How disappointing...the Blue Angels demonstrations are always so much >superior to the "Thunder Chickens" I can't believe they failed to capture >that on video! The dirty roll on takeoff has always been something to >behold! > >Doug (son of a retired Naval Aviator who is building an RV-7 in Denver) >OK City >RV-9 Wings > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom" <treed(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Flew the Factory 9A
Date: Mar 24, 2002
Folks, Not that any of you needed validation on your -9A decision, but I had the chance to fly the factory demonstrator last week in Salem. If there were any doubts, they're gone. The airplane is simply spectacular. Visibility for us spam canners is tremendous. The take off roll lasted to the count of five, and we saw 170 mph or so on 21" and 2500 rpm (around 65%). Of course, the scenery around Van's factory makes the experience all the better. Flew the airplane in cruise, through some stalls, then into the pattern and onto short final. Light, positive controls and stable. Just what we all want. Quite motivational! Where's that rivet gun!? One point I did notice, the electric pitch trim was way too sensitive and should have a dual rate or something. I personally chose the manual pitch trim and am glad for it. I was literally just tapping the trim switch to make fine adjustments. If you use the old mnemonic for leveling off; Pitch, Power, Airspeed, Trim, you'll only roll the wheel a whole bunch once, but the fine adjustments made later will be much easier using the wheel, IMHO. Food for thought. Anyway, the new 9 was also sitting there with its gear fairings and such all installed. Nice looking bird. Not a lot of difference between it and the -7, as you'd expect. It's truly just down to: aerobatics or not, tail in the front or not. Either way, after seeing the factory, we're all working on a first-class project. Tom Reed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Rib?
Date: Mar 23, 2002
I had to reorder my trim tab skin because I bent it so hard (sharp) the trailing edge cracked. What is the 'approved' way to do this? Thanks, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim Tab Rib? > > The foam rib is very easy to work with . Don't make unnecessary work!! I > traced the shape on tracing paper and used 3M spray adhesive to stick it to > the foam. I then cut out the "rib" on my scroll saw and with very little > sanding I was done. Use Pro-seal if you happen to have some mixed up. I > didn't so I used silicone. > One worthwhile change I did make (and not my idea, I believe it was Todd > Hoag) was to make the trailing edge of the tab the same as the rest of the > elevator by cutting the tab in two pieces and double flush riveting, this > also makes it easy to get a nice bend on the end flaps. > > Gene.........getting ready for another one > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Gear leg attachment mountings
Date: Mar 24, 2002
I spent the afternoon cutting the oval hole in the floor in order to mount the gear leg attachment point. I am finding it very difficult to get the outer upper surface to sit flat against the spar. I think it is because the weld on the steel mount is interfering with the floor and lower spar cap. Q Is there an easy way of finding where the pressure points are? (I dont want to cut away more than I have to. I feel there must be some sort of pressure sensative paper for this task - but have no previous similar experience.) I take it everyone has the weld on the outside of the joint? It would have been so easy to put it on the inside! Thanks, Steve. #90360 N Yorks., UK PS A second question. What is normally used to fill the inevitable small gaps between the floor and gear leg mount. Without some sort of sealant it looks like a great place for damp / corrosion. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Rib?
Date: Mar 24, 2002
I also "made two Trim Tabs", but my problem was with the 10 brake on the lower leading edge of the Trim Tab where it has to clear the E-907 Elevator Trim Spar. I "hand bent" the 20 ga material rather than using a "forming brake", and ended up with a saver "oil can". My second attempt with a brake turned out fine. As for the trailing edge, after forming the two 90 bends on the ends, I laid the Trim Tab Skin flat on the bench, placed a length of 2" x 4" lumber on the upper surface, flush with the trailing edge, and "whacked the lumber" with a mallet until the bend just brought the end sections together. I did not try to make a sharp bend, which would match the trailing edges of the Elevators, but rather left it with a slightly rounded trailing edge. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim Tab Rib? > > I had to reorder my trim tab skin because I bent it so hard (sharp) the > trailing edge cracked. What is the 'approved' way to do this? > > Thanks, Steve. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Gear leg attachment mountings
Date: Mar 24, 2002
Steve, keep in mind that you need to include a bit of the spar flange in the cutout for the gear mount. And yes you need to make the oval slightly larger to make room for the weld. A dremel with sanding drums or similar die grinder does a nice job here. You can use a strip of caulking-tape or modeling clay to gauge the fit if you like, though it's not necessary to be that precise. The gear leg fairing covers the whole thing up. Remember too that the spar rivets that fall under the gear mount must be double-flush, or at least mashed down far enough to allow the gear mount to sit into place. I chose to put caulking-tape around the gear leg part of the mount. When you tighten it down it squeezes the excess out and makes for a good seal. Double-check your main spar rivets, you'll probably find that Vans/Philogston forgot one of them (unless they've fixed this by now). We early birds had to drill this missing rivet hole for an extra bolt. Regarding the trim tab split; you could have always cut it into two pieces and order some AEX wedge so that it matches the rest of the trailing edge. Some folks do this intentionally. I guess I lucked out, my kit had the trim tab already bent to final shape. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Gear leg attachment mountings
Date: Mar 24, 2002
I was very careful to cut the hole in the lower skin to the exact dimensions given in the drawings. (I traced it & then transferred the drawing.) When I got to the point of installing the Gear Leg Weldments, I found I had to enlarge the holes (and remove a little of the Spar Flange) to gain clearance for the weld fillets. To do this, I used my little 3/8" x 13" belt sander for the rough cuts, then smoothed everything out with a sanding disk in my dremel tool. I'm going to seal the joint with caulk from the outside before installing the leg faring. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: RV9-List: Gear leg attachment mountings > > I spent the afternoon cutting the oval hole in the floor in order to > mount the gear leg attachment point. I am finding it very difficult to > get the outer upper surface to sit flat against the spar. I think it is > because the weld on the steel mount is interfering with the floor and > lower spar cap. > > Q Is there an easy way of finding where the pressure points are? (I dont > want to cut away more than I have to. I feel there must be some sort of > pressure sensative paper for this task - but have no previous similar > experience.) > > I take it everyone has the weld on the outside of the joint? It would > have been so easy to put it on the inside! > > Thanks, Steve. > > #90360 > N Yorks., UK > > PS A second question. What is normally used to fill the inevitable small > gaps between the floor and gear leg mount. Without some sort of sealant > it looks like a great place for damp / corrosion. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JVonDolen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Subject: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges
I'm planning on using Pro Seal to help insure straight trailing edges on my elevators and I'm undecided whether to prime the wedge and hope that the pro seal will bond OK, or not prime and hope that the Pro seal will protect the wedge. Any thoughts? Also, has anyone tried any other adhesive for this applicaton--I don't have any Proseal. Thanks, John Von Dohlen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Comm Antenna Doubler
Date: Mar 24, 2002
I spent most of an afternoon slithering in and out of the tail cone making, fitting and riveting a doubler for the comm antenna that I mounted behind the F707 bulkhead and the top rear skin. Another one of the things it would have been easier to do much earlier. Since I had always planned to put the comm antenna there I could have fabricated the doubler, drilled it and the skin for the antenna, attached plate nuts to the doubler and riveted it all together with the tail section and avoided this extra effort. For what it's worth. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ Working on finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ewinne(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Subject: trim tab skin
Steve- The correct way is the way you did it- twice! (just kidding!) When I got my second skin, The first thing I did was bend the end tabs correctly, then after I got the thing primed, prepped and ready, I bent the trailing edge in the brake, but I did it slowly, gradually, and by moving it aroung (back and forth) in the brake. Came out fine. Had to watch out for the end tabs (which I had cracked the first time around), but by going slo and sliding it back and forth in the brake, I gog a good result. Ed Winne RV9A Palmyra PA >I had to reorder my trim tab skin < ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2002
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob.hassel(at)mailhost.directlink.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Rib?
Hi Steve, Use an 1/8" wooden dowel between the skins of the trailing edge. This should keep the 'break' from occurring. Bob Hassel RV9A Emp. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:54:47 -0000 I had to reorder my trim tab skin because I bent it so hard (sharp) the trailing edge cracked. What is the 'approved' way to do this? Thanks, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim Tab Rib? > > The foam rib is very easy to work with . Don't make unnecessary work!! I > traced the shape on tracing paper and used 3M spray adhesive to stick it to > the foam. I then cut out the "rib" on my scroll saw and with very little > sanding I was done. Use Pro-seal if you happen to have some mixed up. I > didn't so I used silicone. > One worthwhile change I did make (and not my idea, I believe it was Todd > Hoag) was to make the trailing edge of the tab the same as the rest of the > elevator by cutting the tab in two pieces and double flush riveting, this > also makes it easy to get a nice bend on the end flaps. > > Gene.........getting ready for another one > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges
Date: Mar 25, 2002
ProSeal is probably the best goop going. If you use it, you'll want to use it with bare wedges and well scuffed up wegdes and sheets. But I have to say that I wouldn't do this if I were you. It will make a mess of an otherwise clean job, and to be effective, you'll have to cook up a pretty elaborate clamping system that can remain in place for the several days it takes for the ProSeal to cure. For less trouble, you can just be careful when you rivet and have a perfectly good trailing edge. Plenty of builders have done this without trouble. The main thing is to go real easy with the rivet gun and not keep banging on them to the point of distorting the sheet metal. Spare nothing on a good piece of flat steel or angle for your back-plate and polish it so you don't leave scratches. There is nothing wrong with small openings at the trailing edge. It lets trapped water out, and if you look at the factory planes, you'll see the same thing. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: <JVonDolen(at)aol.com> Subject: RV9-List: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges > > I'm planning on using Pro Seal to help insure straight trailing edges on my > elevators > and I'm undecided whether to prime the wedge and hope that the pro seal will > bond OK, or not prime and hope that the Pro seal will protect the wedge. Any > thoughts? > > Also, has anyone tried any other adhesive for this applicaton--I don't have > any Proseal. > > Thanks, > John Von Dohlen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Williams Hildred" <WilliamsHildred(at)JohnDeere.com>
Subject: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges
Date: Mar 25, 2002
You could always create a 'V' block for the trim tab, in the same manner as the larger 'V' block system. With this newly created 'V' block for the trim tab, you would only need to secure the trim tab into the 'V' until the ProSeal has setup and dried completely. Hildred Williams (309) 765-5491 (FAX) WilliamsHildred(at)JohnDeere.com -----Original Message----- From: Gary Newsted [SMTP:fcs(at)jlc.net] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 8:29 AM To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV9-List: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges ProSeal is probably the best goop going. If you use it, you'll want to use it to say that I wouldn't do this if I were you. It will make a mess of an otherwise clean job, and to be effective, you'll have to cook up a pretty elaborate clamping system that can remain in place for the several days it takes for the ProSeal to cure. For less trouble, you can just be careful when you rivet and have a perfectly good trailing edge. Plenty of builders have done this without trouble. The main thing is to go real easy with the rivet gun and not keep banging on them to the point of distorting the sheet metal. Spare nothing on a good piece of flat steel or angle for your back-plate and polish it so you don't leave scratches. There is nothing wrong with small openings at the trailing edge. It lets trapped water out, and if you look at the factory planes, you'll see the same thing. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: <JVonDolen(at)aol.com> To: Subject: RV9-List: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges > > I'm planning on using Pro Seal to help insure straight trailing edges on my > elevators > and I'm undecided whether to prime the wedge and hope that the pro seal will > bond OK, or not prime and hope that the Pro seal will protect the wedge. Any > thoughts? > > Also, has anyone tried any other adhesive for this applicaton--I don't have > any Proseal. > > Thanks, > John Von Dohlen > > messages. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Subject: Bakersfield EAA 71 BBQ
PUT THIS ON YOUR CALENDAR Bakersfield EAA 71 annual BBQ Fly-In @ (L45) Bakersfield Muni will be on June 1st, 2002 All food will be catered by the Getaway Cafe & the Outback Restaurant In addition to all of the awesome experimental aircraft on display, there will be custom hot rods and motorcycles on display Live music all day long 8:00 am - 6:00 pm Info: call John Harmon (611) 836-1028 or e-mail hr2pilot(at)aol.com or Tim Barnes (661) 393-4100 or e-mail EAABKFD71(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ken" <ken(at)peggyking.com>
Subject: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges
Date: Mar 25, 2002
John, I used T-88 Structural Epoxy, which is easier to mix that proseal (equal parts rather than 10 to 1). I just appliied the T-88 between the rivet holes, so that I could cleco overnight and still get the cleco's out. I made sure the elevator or rudder was flat by drilling holes into a 2x4, and put the clecos thru the control surface and into the 2x4. I also layed it on a flat surface, and put a 2x6 on top with lead shot bags to make sure it was flat. It turned out great! Ken Anderson Kirkland, WA doing the messy fuel tank sealing I'm planning on using Pro Seal to help insure straight trailing edges on my elevators and I'm undecided whether to prime the wedge and hope that the pro seal will bond OK, or not prime and hope that the Pro seal will protect the wedge. Any thoughts? Also, has anyone tried any other adhesive for this applicaton--I don't have any Proseal. Thanks, John Von Dohlen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Comm Antenna Doubler
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Albert - you like it in there! A couple of questions: 1) How do yo umake sure you do not damage the floor? I have not had to go in yet and (with your helpful comments) dont expect to have to. I have done lots of odds and ends while the skins are off. 2) I was thinking of using the antenna that bonds to the canopy, costs almost nothing and is on the VANS demonstrator I think. Why did you discard that idea? I need to get this sorted now otherwise I WILL be getting to know the inside of the tailcone! Thanks, Steve. #90360 N Yorks, UK Working on fuse' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: RV9-List: Comm Antenna Doubler > > I spent most of an afternoon slithering in and out of the tail cone making, > fitting and riveting a doubler for the comm antenna that I mounted behind > the F707 bulkhead and the top rear skin. Another one of the things it would > have been easier to do much earlier. Since I had always planned to put the > comm antenna there I could have fabricated the doubler, drilled it and the > skin for the antenna, attached plate nuts to the doubler and riveted it all > together with the tail section and avoided this extra effort. For what it's > worth. > Albert Gardner > Yuma, AZ > Working on finish > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Rib?
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Thanks all for the trim tab comments. I like the dowel idea particularly. It will be a while before I get back to this! Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hassel" <bob.hassel(at)mailhost.directlink.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim Tab Rib? > > Hi Steve, > > Use an 1/8" wooden dowel between the skins of the trailing edge. This should keep the 'break' from occurring. > > Bob Hassel > RV9A Emp. > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:54:47 -0000 > > > I had to reorder my trim tab skin because I bent it so hard (sharp) the > trailing edge cracked. What is the 'approved' way to do this? > > Thanks, Steve. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Trim Tab Rib? > > > > > > The foam rib is very easy to work with . Don't make unnecessary work!! > I > > traced the shape on tracing paper and used 3M spray adhesive to stick it > to > > the foam. I then cut out the "rib" on my scroll saw and with very little > > sanding I was done. Use Pro-seal if you happen to have some mixed up. I > > didn't so I used silicone. > > One worthwhile change I did make (and not my idea, I believe it was Todd > > Hoag) was to make the trailing edge of the tab the same as the rest of the > > elevator by cutting the tab in two pieces and double flush riveting, this > > also makes it easy to get a nice bend on the end flaps. > > > > Gene.........getting ready for another one > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Dave/Gary - thanks for that. Yes that is pretty well what I did. I did the tracing, cut a template, attached it and blew paint in. Then cut out the painted ally. Subsequent work with the dremel means I have 1/16 or 1/8 clearance all the way around (I think)! Somehow although I can bolt it down to the spar flush, if I relax the bolts it still pulls away about 3/16 or 1/4 inch at the top outer corner, and I can not for the life of me see what is interfeering. The bolts all line up jusrt fine. I no longer think it is the weld - though I really wish they had welded the inside seam. It may be the powder coat being so thick it is pressing on one of the spar rivets. Did yours sit flat or did in fact need the bolts to pull it into place? How thick a shim did you need for the bottom inner bolt? What will you caulk with? Thanks, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Gear Leg Mounting Holes > Hi Steve, > > I was very careful to cut the hole in the lower skin to the exact dimensions > given in the drawings. (I traced it & then transferred the drawing.) > > When I got to the point of installing the Gear Leg Weldments, I found I had > to enlarge the holes quite a bit to gain clearance for the weld fillets. To > do this, I used my little 3/8" x 13" belt sander for the rough cuts, then > smoothed everything out with a sanding disk in my dremel tool. > > I'm going to seal the joint with caulk from the outside before installing > the leg faring. > > Dave > 90347 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Comm Antenna Doubler
Date: Mar 25, 2002
I put a piece of plywood on the baggage comp floor and put a couple of 2x4's about 6' long laid across the F707 and F708 bulkheads for a floor when I venture into the tail cone plus some pieces of 2" Styrofoam in the seat and baggage areas so that I don't bend any floor pieces as I lurch around in there trying to crawl in. If the elevator push/pull tube is installed it's a bit tight but still doable. I suspect between the seat belt anchors, antennas, static ports and slider canopy guide rail, most of us will make excursions at least part way into that place. When I had my fuselage painted, they broke the toothpicks off that I had put in the static ports so that will require another trip inside but I'll wait as long as possible. As for the antenna, I used the Comant CI-121 but I don't really remember a good reason why. I think I was convinced that it would work better but it's been quite awhile ago that I picked it. BTW, concerning steps: with no engine, wings or tailfeathers, with all 3 wheels on the ground, the top of the longerons are 54" above the floor and the step is at 22.5" above the floor. Without the step we might need a lightweight step to carry along. I'm putting the O-320 on tomorrow so I'll see how much it squats down with a little weight. Albert Gardner RV-9A 9-0132 Yuma, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Comm Antenna Doubler > Albert - you like it in there! > A couple of questions: > 1) How do yo umake sure you do not damage the floor? I have not had to go in > yet and (with your helpful comments) dont expect to have to. I have done > lots of odds and ends while the skins are off. > > 2) I was thinking of using the antenna that bonds to the canopy, costs > almost nothing and is on the VANS demonstrator I think. Why did you discard > that idea? > > I need to get this sorted now otherwise I WILL be getting to know the inside > of the tailcone! > Thanks, Steve. > #90360 > N Yorks, UK > Working on fuse' ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2002
From: John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Pro Seal/ Trailing Edges
I have used 3M marine adhesives for the trim tab and a couple of other things. You can get it in white and it is very strong. Just rough up the aluminum. Do not pirme first. I will have to admit that I have done all control surfaces without any of that stuff. I followed the instructions and it worked great. I can see where on something like the flaps you might feel more comfortable by gluing thing first, but you will not force the metal together nearly as tight as the rivets. Clecos cannot approach the pressure of rivets. and your trailing edge might be slightly thicker. John Oliveira ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Steve, Check for a rivet tail that might be holding up one corner of the Weldment. One that caught me was the lower rivet on the side. The drawing shows that one should be "reversed" with the factory head flush on the inside, the same as the bunch along the outer edge of the lower skin. Once I got that one out of the way, everything came right into alignment. I haven't decided what I will caulk with yet, but I'm considering something used in the motor-home industry. I think it should be fuel proof, fireproof (or at least fire retardant), flexible, and have excellent adhesive qualities. I'll let you know what I find. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: RV9-List: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes > > Dave/Gary - thanks for that. Yes that is pretty well what I did. I did the > tracing, cut a template, attached it and blew paint in. Then cut out the > painted ally. Subsequent work with the dremel means I have 1/16 or 1/8 > clearance all the way around (I think)! > > Somehow although I can bolt it down to the spar flush, if I relax the bolts > it still pulls away about 3/16 or 1/4 inch at the top outer corner, and I > can not for the life of me see what is > interfeering. The bolts all line up jusrt fine. I no longer think it is the > weld - though I really wish they > had welded the inside seam. It may be the powder coat being so thick it is > pressing on one of the spar rivets. > > Did yours sit flat or did in fact need the bolts to pull it into place? How > thick a shim did you need for the bottom inner bolt? > > What will you caulk with? > > Thanks, Steve. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Steve....my gear mounts did the same thing. They seemed to fit, but wouldn't lay down at the upper outboard corner by just hand pressure. It pulled in easily when I started running the nuts down. There were no creaks or groans, and it didn't distort anything when tightened. I wouldn't fuss about it unless it fights being tightened. On the shim, I think you are referring to the spot where the plans call for an AN 960-416 washer under the web. That is what I used. They are about 1/16 inch thick. Gary C floors and firewall insulated and carpeted Somehow although I can bolt it down to the spar flush, if I relax the bolts it still pulls away about 3/16 or 1/4 inch at the top outer corner, and I can not for the life of me see what is interfeering. The bolts all line up jusrt fine. I no longer think it is the weld - though I really wish they had welded the inside seam. It may be the powder coat being so thick it is pressing on one of the spar rivets. Did yours sit flat or did in fact need the bolts to pull it into place? How thick a shim did you need for the bottom inner bolt? .......... Thanks, Steve. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 25, 2002
03/26/2002 05:39:38 AM, Serialize complete at 03/26/2002 05:39:38 AM Steve, There is at least one bolt that requires a washer between the gear lag and the spar carry through. It was mentioned in the text portion of the procedures for install as I recall. Regards Larry Perryman "Steve Sampson" Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com 03/25/2002 03:02 PM Please respond to rv9-list To: cc: Subject: RV9-List: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes Dave/Gary - thanks for that. Yes that is pretty well what I did. I did the tracing, cut a template, attached it and blew paint in. Then cut out the painted ally. Subsequent work with the dremel means I have 1/16 or 1/8 clearance all the way around (I think)! Somehow although I can bolt it down to the spar flush, if I relax the bolts it still pulls away about 3/16 or 1/4 inch at the top outer corner, and I can not for the life of me see what is interfeering. The bolts all line up jusrt fine. I no longer think it is the weld - though I really wish they had welded the inside seam. It may be the powder coat being so thick it is pressing on one of the spar rivets. Did yours sit flat or did in fact need the bolts to pull it into place? How thick a shim did you need for the bottom inner bolt? What will you caulk with? Thanks, Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Gear Leg Mounting Holes > Hi Steve, > > I was very careful to cut the hole in the lower skin to the exact dimensions > given in the drawings. (I traced it & then transferred the drawing.) > > When I got to the point of installing the Gear Leg Weldments, I found I had > to enlarge the holes quite a bit to gain clearance for the weld fillets. To > do this, I used my little 3/8" x 13" belt sander for the rough cuts, then > smoothed everything out with a sanding disk in my dremel tool. > > I'm going to seal the joint with caulk from the outside before installing > the leg faring. > > Dave > 90347 > > = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Laurel Mckone" <lmckone(at)xtalwind.net>
Subject: Revision DWG 31A
Date: Mar 27, 2002
RV-9A listners, looking at the plans revision in the RVator, R1 & R2. Comparing it with the plans of the firewall, I am unable to match it up. I have a feeling that the starter and master relay locations are moved under the battery tray but the stiffener in the drawing does not corespond with the firewall DWG. On the firewall under the battery tray would seem the logical place. I'm going to Sun-n-Fun sunday, hope to meet some of you there, will wear my RV-9A hat. Hanging engine next week. N120LM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gozewijn Vlasblom" <vlasblom(at)recorder.ca>
Subject: Bottom skin
Date: Mar 27, 2002
I have trouble. I am assembling the centre section fuselage. F976 centre section bottom skin has two aft rows of rivet holes. The one but aft matches the row of rivet holes in F706 Bulkhead. The very last aft row of rivets in F976 centre section bottom skin do not have corresponding rivet holes in F778 aft section bottom skin. Do they have to be match drilled and dimpled later? Or am I missing something? Thanks for the help, Goos Vlasblom 90171 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Bottom skin
Date: Mar 27, 2002
I match drilled and dimpled this "second set of holes" before riveting the center section to the aft section. Some of the holes were very difficult to dimple around the Bellcrank area, so I had to use my "pop rivet dimple dies" in a few places. Dave 90347 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gozewijn Vlasblom" <vlasblom(at)recorder.ca> Subject: RV9-List: Bottom skin > > I have trouble. > I am assembling the centre section fuselage. > F976 centre section bottom skin has two aft rows of rivet holes. The one but > aft matches the row of rivet holes in F706 Bulkhead. The very last aft row > of rivets in F976 centre section bottom skin do not have corresponding rivet > holes in F778 aft section bottom skin. Do they have to be match drilled and > dimpled later? > Or am I missing something? > Thanks for the help, > Goos Vlasblom 90171 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 28, 2002
Gary/Dave - thanks for yourcomments. Yep - the RH mount bolted into place. The left one is progressing! I think the issue is that the forward mount leg presses quite hard on the side of the aircraft and it is this that holds it out. What about caulking with RTV? Is htis not appropriate? Steve QB90360 UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes > > Steve....my gear mounts did the same thing. They seemed to fit, but > wouldn't lay down at the upper outboard corner by just hand pressure. > It pulled in easily when I started running the nuts down. There were > no creaks or groans, and it didn't distort anything when tightened. I > wouldn't fuss about it unless it fights being tightened. > > On the shim, I think you are referring to the spot where the plans call > for an AN 960-416 washer under the web. That is what I used. They are > about 1/16 inch thick. > > Gary C > floors and firewall insulated and carpeted > > Somehow although I can bolt it down to the spar flush, if I relax the > bolts > it still pulls away about 3/16 or 1/4 inch at the top outer corner, > and I > can not for the life of me see what is > interfeering. The bolts all line up jusrt fine. I no longer think it > is the > weld - though I really wish they > had welded the inside seam. It may be the powder coat being so thick > it is > pressing on one of the spar rivets. > > Did yours sit flat or did in fact need the bolts to pull it into > place? How > thick a shim did you need for the bottom inner bolt? > > .......... > Thanks, Steve. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 30, 2002
RTV is probably fine for interior caulking like this. You don't really need to caulk it at all. If the mount is pushing on the side of the fuselage, it makes me wonder if you should check the alignment of the fuselage. If I recall, yours was a QB fuse, so one would think it is OK, but you never know. Some amount of twisting is still possible right up until you rivet the top skin on. Good luck! Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 30, 2002
Gary - thanks for that. Yes it is a QB and though I also very much doubt it is twisted I will check. Is there an easy way to do this. Perhaps a bit of the manual I have not paid attention to? Thanks, Steve. PS Both left and right hand sides are similar. Perhaps mine is just a bit more streamlined or somthing! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes > > RTV is probably fine for interior caulking like this. You don't really need to > caulk it at all. > If the mount is pushing on the side of the fuselage, it makes me wonder if you > should check the alignment of the fuselage. If I recall, yours was a QB fuse, > so one would think it is OK, but you never know. Some amount of twisting is > still possible right up until you rivet the top skin on. > > Good luck! > > Gary > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2002
From: "James R. Render" <jimpattr(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Per Cent of construction
I read the answer to the question of what percentage completion the empennage is of the entire plane construction of a RV-9A. I would like to narrow the original question. With a quick build kit, what percentage of the riveting is completed when the empennage is finished? Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2002
From: Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Gear Leg Mounting
One of my gear leg mounts has brown material migrating out of the gaps and paint cracks near the 90 degree angle welds. I called Vans and was told that they had not seen rust on any mounts but that "oil" was migrating out of some. The exudate on my is looks like rust and it does not dissolve in solvent so I sent it back to Vans. Leland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Per Cent of construction
Date: Mar 31, 2002
I would say you would be in the 80-90% range. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Mounting Holes
Date: Mar 31, 2002
Steve, if both sides are exhibiting the same fit, then its unlikely that you have a twist. In this case, just triple-check to make sure there's nothing obvious preventing proper fit, then bolt them down. You may want to get all the bolts started before tightening any of them all the way. The parts will find their way home as you tighten them. Most likely the sides will be pushed out slightly as the mount is tightened. This is OK. If you do suspect a twist of one side, you can mark centerlines on a few bulkheads and measure outward from this centerline. It's hard to be precise, but it may be good enough to identify a twist. The solution is pretty much the same,,, bolt it down and let it take its rightful shape! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2002
From: Leland & Anne <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Per Cent of construction
Jim, I've seen guestimates by Van's that the quickbuild will only save about 1/3 of the total work needed to put an RV9 together. The quickbuild kit probably represented a greater fraction of the work on the non-prepunched kits. The quality of the workmanship on my quickbuild is very good. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: DWG36 View DD - AN833
Date: Apr 01, 2002
I can find no definative answer to this in the plans. Is the idea that 1) the AN833 goes through what on my QB is the top of 4 rivet holes in the F9101? And then 2) is it ever so slightly angled over so that the attached pipe goes inboard of the F7113, or am I meant to 3) put a small cut out in the F7113 so it goes vertically prior to the dog leg around the rudder cable? Would welcome others opinions. Thanks, Steve. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil" <Phil(at)camsnet.com>
Subject: Trim macro reinforcemnet plate?
Date: Apr 01, 2002
Completed Tail on 28MAR2002 (1 year build time to the day). After attaching the Trim macro reinforcing plate to the left elevator I noticed that the nutplates hung out into the opening. Do I just grind them back to the edge of the opening? Best regards, Phil Johnston Columbus, Ohio #90329 RV-9A Kit Builder www.vansaircraft.com --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Any RV-9's in New York?
Date: Apr 01, 2002
Hello every one, I will be traveling though New York on the 7th of april was wondering if there are any RV's in the area that I could possibly take a look at. I live in Iceland and there are currently only one 6 and one 8 under construction, and no flying RV=B4s so I have never actually seen a finished example. would apprieciate it very much if someone had the time to show his project off to me. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2002
From: Jim Brandvold <jbrandv(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Trim macro reinforcemnet plate?
I just ground back two of them so that the servo would slip past. You also have to make sure that the shaft doesn't protrude past the end of the box too far or it won't go in. Waiting on the QB Wings and Fuse. Jim Brandvold N209RV (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: DWG36 View DD - AN833
Date: Apr 02, 2002
> Is the idea that the AN833 goes through the top of 4 > rivet holes in the F9101? It goes through the third rivet hole. That is, one down from the top. > And is it angled over so that the attached pipe goes inboard of > the F7113, or am I to put a small cut out in the F7113 so it goes > vertically prior to the dog leg around the rudder cable? Ah, golf talk... Spring is indeed here! If you sight the hole correctly, your elbow will line up such that no angle is required before the dog leg. I used an easy six iron with a touch of backspin on this hole to avoid an awful slice. ; ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: O-320 A1A Air Box Interferece RV-9A Conical mount
Date: Apr 02, 2002
I mounted my rebuilt Lycoming O-320 A1A conical mount engine on vans motor mount on my RV-9A last week and find that the carb will interfere with the motor mount and the air box with the mount and gear leg. Also, I had to use 3/4" think spacers to avoid interference between the intake tubes and the motor mount. I can turn the carb 180 degrees to avoid motor mount interference and do some extensive modifications on the air box which might even include a remote filter. All or at least some of this interference seems to come from the fact that my sump may not be the typical sump. My sump is part no. 69369B and the carb is mounted aft of the oil screen fitting. I can't find this p/n in my parts manual but I understand many sumps have the carb location forward of the oil screen fitting. I have several questions: 1. Does it matter if my carb (Marvel MA-4SPA) faces forward or aft? 2. Is the best solution to try to find a sump in which the carb is mounter further forward? 3. Does anyone have a parts manual that shows the 69369B sump? 4. Does a remote filter degrade performance enough that I should make every attempt to avoid it even if it requires major modification to Vans airbox in order to use it? 5. I used alum spaces on the motor mount. Should they be steel? Welded to the mount or just placed on the engine mounting bolts? 6. Is this going to be a common O-320 conical mount/RV-9A problem for others? 7. Is this why lots of people like the little wheel in the back? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ RV-9A: 9-0132 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: O-320 A1A Air Box Interferece RV-9A Conical mount
Date: Apr 02, 2002
Al, I can't help you with your Lycoming problem, but I do recall reading either on the Vans website or the plans or the RVator that your engine must be of the "forward mounted carb" type. I'm sure others will know more about this. If you cannot exchange your motor, perhaps a call to Vans would be a good thing right about now. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: O-320 A1A Air Box Interferece RV-9A Conical mount
Date: Apr 02, 2002
FWIW, I looked on their website for more info on the required carb configuration. I didn't find what I was after, but it did say they use only Dynafocal mounts. Did you special-order your conical one? Either way, I'll bet there's a workable solution, but it may cost you a few bucks. I'll shut up and let someone more familiar with the options have a go at an answer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: O-320 A1A Air Box Interferece RV-9A Conical mount
Date: Apr 02, 2002
OK I found the reference. In your assembly book page 11-5 "Engine Selection" it states: "...the rumor that Lycoming once built two identical motors has never been proven." * Aft mounted carbs, feeding through the side of the oil sump will not fit an RV. However, often a change of sump to an updraft version is all that's required to make the engine fit. * Most engines with updraft carbs will fit an RV, but some engines have the carb mounted at the very rear of the sump, which interferes with the nose gear mount. It goes on to list a few other problem motors and things to look for. So I don't know that this helps you, but it sounds like a sump change might do the trick. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary & Sandi" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: O-320 A1A Air Box Interferece RV-9A Conical mount
Date: Apr 02, 2002
Albert......Newsted's last answer pretty well covers it. All I can add is that you need a sump that has what are called "straight risers", meaning the intake risers only have a single curvature (like an elbow). It sounds to me like your sump uses the updraft carb, not the rear-mounted side draft Newsted mentioned........right? However, there are quite a few different updraft sumps with different fore and aft carb locations. The straight riser types have the carb mounted more forward, I'm pretty sure. You could call Wentworth. They can give you good information from memory, and can no doubt supply a different sump as well. I can't find the number, but look in Trade-a-Plane for their ads. I think the toll free number is 1-800-Wentworth, but don't bet on it. I would highly recommend swapping for a sump that will work. Mucho easier and better than butchering all that stuff. 3/4 inch spacers seem pretty thick. If you use them, I'd use steel washers, not welded to anything. If you change sumps you shouldn't have to do this??? Where it says they only use Dynafocals is referring to new engines sold by Van's.......they are dyanfocal engines. You can use 0-320 -A's and -B's as well, which are conical. 0-320 D's and E's are dynafocal. Gary C I mounted my rebuilt Lycoming O-320 A1A conical mount engine on vans motor mount on my RV-9A last week and find that the carb will interfere with the motor mount and the air box with the mount and gear leg. Also, I had to use 3/4" think spacers to avoid interference between the intake tubes and the motor mount. ............. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Wing tip mounting?
What's the consensus of those of you that have already finished the wings up? Did you mount the wing tips while working on the wings by using the aileron alingment bracket etc, or just wait until you are rigging the wings for good out at the airport? - Andy Karmy RV9A - One wing closed out and finished (minus tip) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Wing tip mounting?
Date: Apr 03, 2002
Andy, I finished my wings last month and decided not to mess with the wing tips for now, but rather to wait until the finishing kit arrives to do it all at the fiberglass work at the same time. Additionally, I have not decided if I am going to install wing tip mounted antennas, so it made to wait until then. I didn't do the fiberglass work for the tail either. Fabian 90292 (Working on Fuselage) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> Subject: RV9-List: Wing tip mounting? > > What's the consensus of those of you that have already finished the wings up? Did you mount the wing tips while working on the wings by using the aileron alingment bracket etc, or just wait until you are rigging the wings for good out at the airport? > > - Andy Karmy > RV9A - One wing closed out and finished (minus tip) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: When you've run out of panel space and have money left to burn!
Date: Apr 05, 2002
OK EFIS geeks, here's what to do when you've completely lost it! Too radical for me... http://microvision.com/prod_nomad.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Re: When you've run out of panel space and have money left to
burn!
Date: Apr 06, 2002
Gary, Are you sure that you don't want one of these systems? Talk about being an integral part of your plane. I will stick with the EFIS panel also. Regards Larry Perryman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> Subject: RV9-List: When you've run out of panel space and have money left to burn! | | OK EFIS geeks, here's what to do when you've completely lost it! Too radical | for me... | | http://microvision.com/prod_nomad.htm | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Wing attach bolts
Date: Apr 06, 2002
Has anyone found a good way to put the nuts on the bottom bolts that hold the wing on? It only took me 4 hours to get 8 bolts done today with the help of a visitor to the hanger. What did you use to hold the nuts once started so that you could tighten them up to the correct specs? I have asked Vans these questions and will post the results when they respond after Sun-N-Fun. Regards Larry Perryman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ken" <ken(at)peggyking.com>
Subject: RE: RV9-List Digest: Utilities at wing root
Date: Apr 06, 2002
I am wondering if it is possible to install an electrical disconnect plug on the inboard rib of the wings. Also a thru bulkhead AN fitting for the pitot pressure line, like the fuel vent and fuel pickup on the tank. I am not far enough along to know the wing/fuselage interface details. Now that a lot of you have gotten to, or past that stage, how did you (or would you, given another chance) route the wiring and pressure lines to the fuselage, and how did you deal with disconnect. If a disconnect is not possible at the inboard rib, how long do I make the harness? Thanks, Ken Anderson # 90376 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2002
From: ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu>
Subject: Speeds?
I know that every plane is different, but I would love to know what people are using as their speeds. here is what I am using: Vs0 45mph Vs1 52mph Vx 80mph Vy 100mph Va 135mph (?) Best Glide 70mph (???) 18nm glide range from 10,000' (for iPaq anywhere) naturally, the exact values won't apply, not even to my own plane, much less to your's. (In case someone has it handy, I need to find the 55% power RPM setting table for the Lycoming 160hp). /iaw http://welch.som.yale.edu/n994ks/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Wing attach bolts
Date: Apr 08, 2002
Larry - I am behind you so have no answers for you but am puzzld as to the problem. Is there no room to get a wrench on? Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> Subject: RV9-List: Wing attach bolts > > Has anyone found a good way to put the nuts on the bottom bolts that hold > the wing on? It only took me 4 hours to get 8 bolts done today with the help > of a visitor to the hanger. > > What did you use to hold the nuts once started so that you could tighten > them up to the correct specs? > > I have asked Vans these questions and will post the results when they > respond after Sun-N-Fun. > > Regards > Larry Perryman > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Re: Wing attach bolts
Date: Apr 08, 2002
Steve, On the bottom, one bolt comes out directly behind the gear leg attach bracket with about 1/8th of an inch more room than the nut and washer. The other is only half covered but is right up against the four bolts you put in the side of the fuselage. You CAN NOT get a straight wrench on the outside nut. I was able to jam one side with a screwdriver with enough force to allow me to torque the bolt up to specs. The inside nut I was able to get enough of the wrench on to do the job. The other side was harder. We did find a pair of thin jaw vice grip pliers would hold the nut so I was able to get them tightened also. My question to Vans is "What type of wrench do you use on these nuts?????" Maybe they should include some info on the process and the tools needed for this part. I suspect that they have a "special" wrench that they use to do this job. It would be helpful to mount the wings before you run any of the brake or fuel lines or any wiring. They all worked against me in competing for space. One tool I have found to be of great help has been a collection of hemostats that I picked up from a local hardware store. They are not hospital quality but are made like them and work great in small spaces (like putting the nuts on the bolts that go to the inside of the spar carry through.). You may not have those problems since you got a quick build kit but others will know of what I speak. Keep on building. All things are possible with enough time spent on them. Either that or find a small child with mechanical dexterity to help. They could reach in those tight spaces we can not reach into. Regards Larry Perryman 90288 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Wing attach bolts | | Larry - I am behind you so have no answers for you but am puzzld as to the | problem. Is there no room to get a wrench on? | | Steve. | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> | To: ; | Subject: RV9-List: Wing attach bolts | | | | > | > Has anyone found a good way to put the nuts on the bottom bolts that hold | > the wing on? It only took me 4 hours to get 8 bolts done today with the | help | > of a visitor to the hanger. | > | > What did you use to hold the nuts once started so that you could tighten | > them up to the correct specs? | > | > I have asked Vans these questions and will post the results when they | > respond after Sun-N-Fun. | > | > Regards | > Larry Perryman | > | > | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 09, 2002
Subject: Re: Wing attach bolts
I used a crows foot socket, had to grind down the sides a little for that outboard one. It is definately the most difficult bolt to get to on the whole project! Kevin Shannon > Steve, > > On the bottom, one bolt comes out directly behind the gear leg attach > bracket with about 1/8th of an inch more room than the nut and washer. The > other is only half covered but is right up against the four bolts you put > in > the side of the fuselage. > > You CAN NOT get a straight wrench on the outside nut. I was able to jam one > side with a screwdriver with enough force to allow me to torque the bolt up > to specs. The inside nut I was able to get enough of the wrench on to do > the job. The other side was harder. We did find a pair of thin jaw vice > grip > pliers would hold the nut so I was able to get them tightened also. > > My question to Vans is "What type of wrench do you use on these nuts?????" > Maybe they should include some info on the process and the tools needed for > this part. I suspect that they have a "special" wrench that they use to do > this job. > > It would be helpful to mount the wings before you run any of the brake or > fuel lines or any wiring. They all worked against me in competing for > space. > > One tool I have found to be of great help has been a collection of > hemostats > that I picked up from a local hardware store. They are not hospital quality > but are made like them and work great in small spaces (like putting the > nuts > on the bolts that go to the inside of the spar carry through.). > > You may not have those problems since you got a quick build kit but others > will know of what I speak. > > Keep on building. All things are possible with enough time spent on them. > Either that or find a small child with mechanical dexterity to help. They > could reach in those tight spaces we can not reach into. > > Regards > Larry Perryman > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Wing attach bolts
Date: Apr 09, 2002
04/09/2002 08:09:42 PM, Serialize complete at 04/09/2002 08:09:42 PM Kevin, That is what I suspected would be the solution but I did not have that in my toolbag at the airport. Did you use the same on the smaller #3 bolts also? Regards Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-Home" <moejoe(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tools for sale
Date: Apr 09, 2002
I recently sold my RV8 kit, and I've got some aviation tools for sale, if anyone is interested. They are listed at: http://www.tabshred.com/moe/avery.htm Thanks, Moe Colontonio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-Home" <moejoe(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tools for sale
Date: Apr 11, 2002
Hi guys. I recently sold my RV8 kit, and I have some tools left over. Take a look at http://www.tabshred.com/moe/avery.htm to see a list with prices. Thanks, Moe Colontonio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com>
Subject: wiring to the control panel
Date: Apr 11, 2002
Is it acceptable to run wiring for lighting and antennas along the floor beneath the center cabin cover and exit at the side just below the firewall recess then upward along the inside of the firewall through the top front bulkheads to the control panel? My biggest concern is heat effects on the wiring since this acts as a heat duct to the cabin. There isn't enough room to work with now that I have installed the center section bulkhead inside covers to use this area as a wire chase. I've seen some completed projects with wire bundles fully exposed running along the side stiffener angles beneath the panel which doesn't look very attractive. Also has anyone located the strobe power supply behind the rear baggage compartment bulkhead and if so how did you mount it, inaddition how close can it be positioned to the unshielded lighting and antenna lines in inches? Lastly it seems the ELT always ends up in the baggage area using up valuable space, is there a problem locating it and it's antenna inside the tail cone? Will this have an effect on antenna reception? I just got back from Sun and Fun and a ride in the 9A what motivation it was going up for the first time in this impressive airplane, I cannot wait to get my plane in the air. Your help will be appreciated, Steve Dwyer 90219 working on the finishing kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: RE: RV9-List Digest: Utilities at wing root
Date: Apr 12, 2002
Ken, You could install a connector on the root rib if you choose, but I suggest that you simply leave the wires dangling for now. You can always add a connector at any time during construction. Leave about 12" of wire beyond the wing root to be safe. If you just can't wait (I know how it is), then I suggest you position the connector at the 7:00 position of the hole where the aileron pushrod comes through. This will put the wires under the seat floors. As an alternative, you can use knife or spade connectors and route the wires through a snap bushing that comes out at the 6:00 position of the aileron pushrod hole. There are lots of options, which is why I suggest not rushing. As for the pitot tube, the same suggestion holds. I will probably use a short piece of nylon tubing rather than a solid connector for the pitot tube (haven't decided yet). I don't like the way it emerges from the 3:00 position of the aileron pushrod hole at the root rib because you can't put a matching snap bushing in the fuse at that point, so I may back it out one rib and move it to a lower position, probably using the 6:00 position. Regardless of how you routes these things, there is a reasonable gap between the fuse and root rib to allow for access. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: ken <ken(at)peggyking.com> Subject: RV9-List: RE: RV9-List Digest: Utilities at wing root > > I am wondering if it is possible to install an electrical disconnect plug on > the inboard rib of the wings. Also a thru bulkhead AN fitting for the pitot > pressure line, like the fuel vent and fuel pickup on the tank. I am not far > enough along to know the wing/fuselage interface details. Now that a lot of > you have gotten to, or past that stage, how did you (or would you, given > another chance) route the wiring and pressure lines to the fuselage, and how > did you deal with disconnect. If a disconnect is not possible at the > inboard rib, how long do I make the harness? > > Thanks, > Ken Anderson > # 90376 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: wiring to the control panel
Date: Apr 12, 2002
> Is it acceptable to run wiring for lighting and antennas along the floor > beneath the center cabin cover Yes, but personally I am limiting the use of the center section to only critical fuel system related wires (pump, flow-sensor) to minimize fire potential. > heat effects on the wiring since Tefzel wiring can handle far more heat than you would find here. Besides, the heat emerges from the louvers. It is blocked from flowing under the center floor by the F-982D. > Also has anyone located the strobe power supply > behind the rear baggage compartment bulkhead > Lastly it seems the ELT always ends up in the baggage area The only wiring concern with the strobe is the high-voltage wire, and it is shielded, so you need not be too concerned with it. That said, you should always try to route your antenna coax separate from other wires where possible, or at least don't parallel them any further than necessary, but don't worry if they have to parallel each other for a short distance or through a snap bushing, etc. I have photos of how I mounted my tail strobe supply and ELT, both inside the tail cone behind the bulkhead wall. It takes a little work to make the ELT bracket if you go this route (since it needs to support 100lbs force), but it gets it out of the way while allowing access too. See http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_tailstrobe.jpg also http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/fuselage/f_eltmnt.jpg Or the full site at http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/Builders_Journal.htm I have started to post wiring diagrams, many more coming soon. Caught a few of you folks at Sun-N-Fun. I'll be tending to my blood-red sunburned face for the next month. Fell asleep on a fishing pier waiting for the Space Shuttle Launch!!!!! Ouch. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: wiring to the control panel
Date: Apr 12, 2002
>>>> Is it acceptable to run wiring for lighting and antennas along the floor beneath the center cabin cover and exit at the side just below the firewall recess then upward along the inside of the firewall through the top front bulkheads to the control panel? <<<< I can't advise you on this one. I am not doing this - and can't tell you a good reason. It seems like a lot of vibration, congestion and inaccessibility. I really would not want to trouble-shoot way up there. Heat would be okay. >>>> Also has anyone located the strobe power supply behind the rear baggage compartment bulkhead ...snip... it seems the ELT always ends up in the baggage area using up valuable space, is there a problem locating it and it's antenna inside the tail cone? <<<<< You did not mention any concern for additional weight in the tail. It makes for a very long moment (weight X distance). I have an O-235-N2C, fixed pitch - and a wood prop. I need to maximize front weight and minimize tail weight. I definitely would not do it the way you mentioned. If you don't want the "boxes" visible you could cut out a couple of holes near the front of your baggage area, make access covers with platenuts and mounting brackets blind riveted to the ribs (to keep everything off the skins). Close to the CG, hidden, away from electricals, no visible wires, but very accessible. Lots of ways to do this. I'm jealous of your RV-9A flight - I've never flown in ANY RV. Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop Finish Kit 5% Complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: wiring to the control panel
Date: Apr 12, 2002
Ernest raises a good point about CG. My AK-450 ELT is 2 pounds,10 ounces, which is typical for a D-Cell ELT, so if you need to alter your CG one way or the other, this is a useful item to move around. The strobe supply is only 1 pound 3 ounces. There is also plenty of room behind the seat backs for these items if you choose, which would also keep them out of your baggage comp and reduce the arm by about 24" if you're expecting to be tail heavy. Other factors that might favor a rearward location if your W&B can afford it, are keeping the high-voltage wiring short and away from Comm antennas, and keeping the ELT antenna close to the unit (i.e. the factory coax is only 48" long). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnCClarkVA(at)cs.com
Date: Apr 13, 2002
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 04/12/02
My last one on the "flatness issue" with the rudder skins. The builder suggesting the pyramid theory was a lot closer to the truth than I was. I thought there was more twist. Curiosity just made me look a little further. The geometery is very close to a pyramid, just not perfect. Calculations from the plans and measurments on rudder suggest that there is a twist, but not much. I just don't know how much it takes to give problems. Several approaches seemed to add up to the same conclusion for me. The easiest one to describe and duplicate is this: the half angle of skins at the tip is 3.98 degrees, the half angle of the skins at the bottom stiffner (perpendicular to spar) is about 4.35 degrees, a difference of 0.37 degrees (not much). However, place the spar flat and rotate the tip until it touches the table. The root will be about 0.37 degrees up from the table, or at a chord of 23.25 inches, about 0.15 inches. Is it ok to push the root trailing edge down 0.15 inches and finish the bonding and riveting? Don't know, but I think that is the number. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Pitot
Date: Apr 13, 2002
A couple of recent posts have had me thinking about the pitot line. VANS intend the line in the wing is ally right? What is their intent from the wing to the ASI? Plastic/Nylon presumably, though I have seen no mention of it so far. So, if the plasticky stuff is good enogh in the cockpit why not use it the whole way? Am I missing somthing? Steve. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
\"Steve Casper\""
Subject: Trip report
Ok boys and girls, sit down and let me spin you a little tale of adventure While most of you longingly look down the driveway looking for a glimpse of the yellow freight truck to bring your next bundle of joy I got a different experience. Living in the Pacific Northwest has its advantages you know (besides always being WET). Yesterday I took off for Portland for an RV day! First stop, Oregon Aero, home of world famous seat makers and purveyors of other comfort items that you just have to try to believe. What a bunch of great people, neat products, good looking seats, and great engineering behind the human factor issues around seat design. Highly recommended! We looked at a couple of RV9 seat cores and saw how they build them up from cutting the raw foam to stitching the fabric. Even leather! Lots of colors and options abound. Next stop, Vans aircraft, Mecca, tashma hall, the holy shrine of the RV faithful pilgrimage As I pulled around the back at the loading dock, hum, looks like lots of activity out here. Seems there is a kit order being loaded up on a truck to go out to the rest of you fine builders. As my wife starts counting boxes, hum, looks like a bit of a large order, six complete kits, tails, wings, fuselage, etc along with 1 quick build. All going somewhere in Texas and being loaded on the same truck! WOW, no wonder the lead times are getting so long these days. As I enter the staging area in the back, theres this huge steel rack with 6 QB RV7 fuselages mounted 2 high. Behind it are 6 sets of QB wings all nicely stacked. Seems this is the first shipment of the new QB building operation in Check republic. Hum these look pretty nice and just look at them all. WOW, there are going to be lots of RV7s in the air soon! Ah, finally my 2 boxes show up on carts to load up the RV9A fuselage kit. We spent some time looking over the QB fuselage to see what we were about to build from the much smaller SB boxes that were just loaded into the truck. Next stop, the hanger at the end to check out the RV9 in person. All the planes returned Wed from Sun & Fun so the hanger was quite full. Let me tell you, for those that havent seen this one yet, WOW does it look nice in person. The gear has a steeper sweep than the 7 to setup the geometry properly and it looks simply sweet! No Im not changing my mind about building the 9A I have all my reasons and justifications, however this thing is cool. For the first time it hit me just how much larger the RV9 wings are with it sitting there side by side with the RV7. This thing looks like a motor glider compared to the rest of the fleet. Of course I had to jump in and try it on to make some airplane noises The new panel is quite Spartan, but seems to have everything you need. It will be interesting to see how people like the IK2000 after flying it for a while. Well, RV fix over, its time to go. Next stop Pacific Coast Avionics! We had a great time talking radios, headsets, and avionics in general and just getting ready for the next steps. They said to fax over a complete laundry list and they will package quote. He felt that they could meet your best hunted Oshkosh pricing by using the package discount. The more you buy the better it gets. Hum time will tell. Ill let you know what I think after getting the quote later. We finished the day up with dinner with some old time friends and headed for home. Now thats what I call a day out shopping! I love the variety of suppliers that we have all in the neighborhood! - Andy Karmy RV9A Fuselage! Seattle, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jen G" <n349rv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: hs center nose rib
Date: Apr 19, 2002
Anyone have any advice for bucking the forward rivet of the hs center nose rib. I am getting tired of drilling the sucker out. I can't seem to keep the bar straight in such a small space. Would a smaller bar do the trick? Right now I am using the smallest one I have, so I guess I need to grind another. Thanks, Jen Groceman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: hs center nose rib
That's a legendary spot in the progression of RV9 construction... get a very small wedge shaped bar cut and ground to fit in there. It's not much mass and your hand gets beat a bit, but it will make all the difference. Also keep the pressure down and you can make it past this too. There are many references to the HS nose rib in the archives as we have all (or at least most) had some challenge in this area. - Andy ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Jen G" <n349rv(at)hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:12:03 -0400 > >Anyone have any advice for bucking the forward rivet of the hs center nose >rib. I am getting tired of drilling the sucker out. I can't seem to keep the >bar straight in such a small space. Would a smaller bar do the trick? Right >now I am using the smallest one I have, so I guess I need to grind another. >Thanks, >Jen Groceman > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: hs center nose rib
on 4/19/02 10:12 AM, Jen G at n349rv(at)hotmail.com wrote: > > Anyone have any advice for bucking the forward rivet of the hs center nose > rib. I am getting tired of drilling the sucker out. I can't seem to keep the > bar straight in such a small space. Would a smaller bar do the trick? Right > now I am using the smallest one I have, so I guess I need to grind another. > Thanks, > Jen Groceman > > Jen, I had trouble with this, too. I solved the problem with an MK-319-BS pop rivet. You slightly drill out the #40 hole to 7/64 and they fit right into the dimple and will lie flush with the skin. There was an article in an old RVator that says the MK-319-BS pop rivet is almost as strong as a regular 3/32 bucked rivet. If you don't have an an MK-319-BS, you will get some with your wing kit. If my memory is correct, you use them to attach the bottom flap skins to the ribs. Mark Schrimmer Almost done with the fuel tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2002
Subject: Re: hs center nose rib
From: Thomas J Lutgring <tlutgring(at)juno.com>
Had real good luck with a Bar from Avery tools, part #615, its shaped just right to get in there, even has a built in relief for your fingers. I did have to polish an additional face on it. Be careful those two center nose ribs are notorious for showing a small deflection in the skin when your done! Tom --building wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2002
From: robert scott <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com>
Subject: Re: hs center nose rib
Make sure you flute the nose of the rib. This helps reduce the chance of having that raised area in the skin! Robert Scott Thomas J Lutgring wrote: > > Had real good luck with a Bar from Avery tools, part #615, its shaped > just right to get in there, even has a built in relief for your fingers. > I did have to polish an additional face on it. Be careful those two > center nose ribs are notorious for showing a small deflection in the skin > when your done! > > Tom --building wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: hs center nose rib
Date: Apr 19, 2002
What I did on the center rib( after ruining a skin) was to cut the center section of the rib out and make two stiffeners out the rib. I then back riveted the TOP "stiffener" and bucked the bottom one. I do this before doing the end ribs so the skin is open and easy to work with. Gene, about to become a repeat offender ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Lyc O-320 A1A, sump with aft mounted carb.
Date: Apr 19, 2002
I previously posted a message regarding the O-320-A1A engine I had and the problem encountered due to the carb. being mounted so far back on the sump that it and the filtered air box interfered with the engine mount and gear leg and would be a difficult installation. Here's the final information: The sump I had originally was p/n 69369 and was characterized by the aft mounted carb and the rear risers (intake tubes) having 2 bends in them. I found I needed sump no. 74083 which has the carb more in the center and the intake tubes are located farther forward also. It is called a straight riser sump because the intake tubes have only one bend in them. There was no problem swapping the sumps at all. The previous sump had an oil pickup tube that extended down into the sump while the replacement sump does not use a oil pickup tube but has an oil pickup passage molded into the bottom of the sump. To utilize it, you remove the oil pickup tube and fabricate a small plate and gasket to cover the hole. You then remove a plug in the case so the pump can suck oil through the molded oil passage in the sump. The only other consideration is that the previous risers were 1-1/2" diameter while the new straight risers are 1-3/4" diameter so you need to get new hose sections (p/n 69603) available at Spruce for about $4.50. You may also need a new sump gasket. This was an easy way to solve the problem except that locating a straight riser sump took some doing. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ RV-9A: N872RV (Reserved) Working on FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Lyc O-320 A1A, sump with aft mounted carb.
Date: Apr 20, 2002
Glad to see you worked it out. And ya know, I'll bet fewer bends and larger tubes equal greater horsepower! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: PC Flight Systems Epanel
Date: Apr 22, 2002
Is anyone out there considering the PC Flight Systems Epanel as an option to the Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS/One? It looks like a couple of Compaq iPaq's and PC Flight's 10" display for about $5K would do the same thing as Blue Mountain's $10K system. Dave Nicholson 90347 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2002
Subject: IFR Instrument Certification
From: vcordero(at)juno.com
Folks, If I install all pertinent IFR instruments ( radios, antennae, ILS recievers, GPS, etc) as required by FAA regs, and do all the equipment installs "myself", WHO certifies that my experimental ( RV9A) is a legal IFR aircraft? Do I then need to prove it by any electronic means, or calibration testing or maybe by shooting an ILS or GPS approach to certify accuracy??? Has anyone out there done this so far, in some other experimental, having installed the IFR instruments "themselves"?? The Eastern Avionics sales guy says that I don't have to have them install the equipment, he says I can do it all myself. Will the aircraft then be IFR legal? Thank you, Victor , Long Island, NY Subaru RV9A, 90319 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: IFR Instrument Certification
Date: Apr 22, 2002
As long as you have the required equipment, it is properly installed, it is appropriately rated to begin with, it is checked out by a qualified shop, and continues to have its periodic checks, you're all set. Yes you can do the work yourself, but it needs to be checked out by a certified shop if you want to legally file IFR. You'll have to refer to the documentation for each option for more details on installation, setup, calibration, etc. The FAR's offer guidelines for everything of course. Installations are not overly difficult, particularly if you spring for custom harnesses. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: PC Flight Systems Epanel
Date: Apr 22, 2002
As an engineer for Compaq and an owner of an iPAQ with AnywhereMap, and an owner of the Blue Mtn EFIS, I can say you are very wrong. The Blue Mtn unit is far more than a handheld PC with a flat panel. This is not to say that you couldn't wire up the necessary accelerometers, magnetometers, control panel, DVD, voltage dividers, DAC's and write a huge amount of custom software and strike a deal with a map service, but I guarantee you will spend more time and money and end up with an inferior solution. The Blue Mtn unit rocks, and it's price is astonishingly cheap for all it does. Tally up the features as though they were individual instruments, then compare the price with competitive EFIS units. You'll see... Oh yeah, and toss in a 3-axis autopilot controller while you're at it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com>
Subject: IFR Certification
Date: Apr 22, 2002
It's my understanding all IFR certified aircraft must have a Pitot Static Check annually in order to satisify the FAA. I'd imagine bringing your completed plane to a certified shop would give you the necessary inspection, I've been told such a test whatever it entails typically runs about $300. depending where you're located.. Steve Dwyer 90219 working on finishing kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gmouck <gmouck(at)attcanada.ca>
Subject: The qualifications are used as selection
Date: Apr 23, 2002
Hint: type all the qualifications as found on the job ad then beneath each qualification state (in bullet points) how your skills, knowledge and experience relate to the qualifications. You can also include non-work related experience, e.g. school, volunteer, etc. It is important to illustrate the depth/level and scope of your skills/knowledge. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CarlJRay(at)cs.com
Date: Apr 23, 2002
Subject: Re: IFR Certification
In reference to the IFR question, there is a lot of information on the RV list. The pito-static check for IFR is due every two years. Also you have to take out the altitude indicators and have them certified every two years. The transponder needs to be checked and adjusted also. Since you are the builder and the mechanic you can do a lot of this yourself. Also if you certify that all this is done then I think you will be legal. I don't remember all of it but do remember reading it in other messages on the RV message list. I was concerned about it also but after reading that I don't think it will be too bad. Carl...RV9...wings...going to Vans May 3-10. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2002
From: Leland & Anne Collins <Federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Interior Paint Information
The power coated paint used on Van's steel parts is made by Cardinal and the gray color is GR230. Acryllic-enamel in that color in rattle cans is produced at their plant in El Monte, California. Their phone number is 1-626-444-9274. It can be ordered through one of their other locations, but the shipment will come from El Monte. You have to specify the gloss level, which goes from 10% to 90%. You can also buy GR230 in an epoxy paint, which sells for $78.15 per gallon plus $14.50 per quart for the catalyst. It mixes 4:1. The rattle-can acryllic sells for $4.80 per can with a 6 can minimum. There is an extra UPS HAZMAT shipping cost. I shot the epoxy with an inexpensive gun ($45) from Home Depot and got a fair amount of fine orange peel. (Sears/Craftsman sells the same gun for $30 more.) The orange peel was possibly due to my inexperience at spray painting. I ordered glossy, but with the orange peel it looks more like semi-gloss. The rattle-can acryllic can be shot over the epoxy for touch up and the adhesion of the acryllic to the epoxy is excellent. The rattle-can acryllic (in high gloss) comes out glossier than the epoxy. Both of the Cardinal paints are thinner, harder and more difficult to scrape off than rattle-can Rustoleum. All three paints can be removed with acetone, even after curing for some days. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Control bushing lube?
What is the "standard" method to lube the bronze bushings in the control system? They are riding in the steel parts. I have reamed them to move freely, but was wondering if I am suposed to put something in there before bolting together? -- Andy Karmy andy(at)karmy.com -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Larsen" <slickrock@been-there.com>
Subject: Battery & w/b
Date: Apr 25, 2002
I was just building my firewall mount battery box and started thinking (rare). I am going to have a 50 lb. CS prop up front, and might be adding weight to the back for w/b. So, I might want to put the battery farther aft. Anyone in the final stages have any insight. How did the weight and balance work out? Thanks, Dale ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Interior Paint Information
on 4/24/02 9:47 PM, Leland & Anne Collins at Federigo(at)pacbell.net wrote: > > The power coated paint used on Van's steel parts is made by Cardinal and > the gray color is GR230. Acryllic-enamel in that color in rattle cans > is produced at their plant in El Monte, California. Leland, Did you consider just using the rattle cans from Cardinal? Has anybody else used the rattle cans? If so, did you get good results? Mark Schrimmer Irvine, CA Almost done with the tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Interior Paint Information
Date: Apr 25, 2002
Van's accessory catalog has touch-up paint for the gray powder coat. $2.45. Gary , > > Did you consider just using the rattle cans from Cardinal? Has anybody else > used the rattle cans? If so, did you get good results? > > Mark Schrimmer > Irvine, CA > Almost done with the tanks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Control bushing lube?
Date: Apr 26, 2002
I like to use Permatex Anit-Seize Compound, but any light grease would do the trick. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2002
From: Leland & Anne Collins <Federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Interior Paint Information
I went with the two part approach thinking that epoxy paint would be a higher quality and better looking finish, but now I am not sure that it is. It is probably quicker to use a gun rather than the rattle cans. Cardinal does have a website: http://www.cardinalpaint.com/. Below is an earlier post from the main RV archives: From: "Doug Bell" <dbell(at)manisteenational.com> Subject: Re: Powder Coating in Denver Date: Jan 07, 2002 When we were looking to paint the interior of our 8, we used Bills (VonDane) suggestion and bought spray cans from Cardinal that matched the powder coat color from Van's....it came out great and hass been durable through the completion of all the wiring etc... We do need a few cans to fdo a little touch up and to paint a few added pieces. I f anyone else is using this idea and ordering from Cardinal we would love to hook on to that order for 3 cans. Thanks Doug Bell jr Manistee, MI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Top or bottom wing skin first?
Those of you who have completed your 9A wings, are you riveting the top or bottom skins first? I noticed on the main RV list that several 6A builders who put the top skin on first said they would put the bottom skin on first if they had to do it again. Any thoughts? Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bartrim, Steve" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca>
Subject: removable front deck
Date: Apr 29, 2002
> Has anybody considered fastening the front deck to the forward fuse > with nut plates, to make it removable? With a tip-up this would be very > simple, but with the slider it is difficult. Here's what I'm considering; > > * Shear the F-7106 skin forward of the F-7105 rivet line. > * Rivet the rear portion of the F-7106 skin to the fuse. > * Adjust the canopy position slightly to position the front edge of > plexi just aft of this joint, leaving enough room for the edge moulding. > (this is the same position used in the tip-up). > * Windscreen can then be mounted permanently on this portion of the > forward deck. > * Install nutplates on remaining rivet holes for top skin. Forward > portion of F-7106 could still be used, with a joint strip or..... > * Forward top skin F-771 from the tip up could be used, however it has > a few slots and rivet holes that would be undesirable. Van's will supply > items non-prepunched on request. (they supplied me with some > non-prepunched items when I built my outboard fuel tanks) or.... > * Order a new F-7106 top skin and shear off the portion aft of the > F-7105 rivet line > > This wouldn't be necessary for many builders, but due to my extended range > fuel system, I have chosen to use a header tank. With the top skin riveted > in place I wouldn't be able to access it for removal, maintenance etc. > While in theory this should never be required, I would prefer to have this > access if required, without having to disturb the canopy installation. > Even without a header tank it would still make access to the firewall alot > nicer. > > Anybody have any constructive thoughts on this? > > S. Todd Bartrim > 13B rotary powered > RV-9endurance (finish kit) > C-FSTB (reserved) > http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Grant" <tgrant(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Elevartor E-906 root rib
Date: Apr 29, 2002
How did you guys dimple the flange for the last 2 or 3 holes in the E-906 root rib? My squeezer won't fit as the spacing is too close to the opposite flange. Did you get in there with the pop-rivet dimple dies? How did you get the nail though the hole? The tolerance on the #40 hole is too tight to get the nail through at an angle. Did you bend the flange out slightly? Lastly, did you use pop rivets or squeeze the rivets for these holes? Tom Grant - 90300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com>
Subject: Elevartor E-906 root rib
Date: Apr 29, 2002
Tom, I used the Cleaveland Tool vise grip dimplers for these holes. It's still pretty tight to get them in there but it's the best way that I found. When riveting, I was able to get my no hole yoke in there to do the top skin rivet, but there wasn't enough room for the squeezer to do the bottom rivet (The top rivet was now in the way). I just used a pop rivet for the bottom skin, although some people get creative with very thin bucking bars. Todd Houg www.toddhoug.com -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Grant [mailto:tgrant(at)bellsouth.net] Subject: RV9-List: Elevartor E-906 root rib How did you guys dimple the flange for the last 2 or 3 holes in the E-906 root rib? My squeezer won't fit as the spacing is too close to the opposite flange. Did you get in there with the pop-rivet dimple dies? How did you get the nail though the hole? The tolerance on the #40 hole is too tight to get the nail through at an angle. Did you bend the flange out slightly? Lastly, did you use pop rivets or squeeze the rivets for these holes? Tom Grant - 90300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: -9 parts on the mail order VANS web site
Date: Apr 29, 2002
Anyone know why all the RV9 parts do not appear on the parts list of the VANS web site. An example would be the wing ribs. An example would be W-912-L (or right). Are the wing ribs in fact the same as the -7 ones which are shown? Thanks, Steve. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Duiven" <emduiven(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Re: Elevartor E-906 root rib
Date: Apr 29, 2002
I believe I used the small dimpler I received from Avery Tools as part of my took kit. It seems to work fine. The Catalog No. is 550 and the tool is called a Vise Grip Dimpler - 3/32". Mike Duiven emduiven@chaffee,net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Grant" <tgrant(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV9-List: Elevartor E-906 root rib > > How did you guys dimple the flange for the last 2 or 3 holes in the E-906 > root rib? My squeezer won't fit as the spacing is too close to the opposite > flange. Did you get in there with the pop-rivet dimple dies? How did you get > the nail though the hole? The tolerance on the #40 hole is too tight to get > the nail through at an angle. Did you bend the flange out slightly? Lastly, > did you use pop rivets or squeeze the rivets for these holes? > > Tom Grant - 90300 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Top or bottom wing skin first?
Date: Apr 29, 2002
04/30/2002 12:08:18 AM, Serialize complete at 04/30/2002 12:08:18 AM Mark, I went by the plans and I think that I put the bottom skins on first but it does not make a great deal of difference. You still have to reach through the access holes to buck the rivets on the trailing edge. The 6 wings I have seen do not have the access holes that the 9 wing has. It is a much longer reach to do the bucking. If I had it to do over, I think that I would do the wing walk areas, both top and bottom first as these are the hardest to reach into to buck the rivets. Wear a long sleeve shirt while bucking or you will have a multitude of small cuts on your arms. Regards Larry Perryman 90288 Mark Schrimmer 04/29/2002 03:27 PM Please respond to rv9-list To: RV-9 List cc: Subject: RV9-List: Top or bottom wing skin first? Those of you who have completed your 9A wings, are you riveting the top or bottom skins first? I noticed on the main RV list that several 6A builders who put the top skin on first said they would put the bottom skin on first if they had to do it again. Any thoughts? Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Top or bottom wing skin first?
Date: Apr 29, 2002
I did the top skins first on as they have many more rivets (curved surface, J Stiffener, etc.) and it allowed me to install the Gap Faring also while everything was still in the "H" Frame. My instructions, page 7-9 "Riveting the Wing Skins", say to do the leading edges, then the top main skins, then lay the wing top down and do the bottom skins. I am also leaving the bottom skins off until I am about ready to "fit the wings" so I can have easier access for wiring, controls, etc. Dave 90347 Finishing Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RV9-List: Top or bottom wing skin first? > > Those of you who have completed your 9A wings, are you riveting the top or > bottom skins first? I noticed on the main RV list that several 6A builders > who put the top skin on first said they would put the bottom skin on first > if they had to do it again. Any thoughts? > > Mark Schrimmer > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: Top or bottom wing skin first?
> >Those of you who have completed your 9A wings, are you riveting the top or >bottom skins first? I noticed on the main RV list that several 6A builders >who put the top skin on first said they would put the bottom skin on first >if they had to do it again. Any thoughts? > >Mark Schrimmer That's the 6 series... On those wings there is a different trailing edge that makes it much harder to put the tops on first. On the 9 it's different. The tops go on easy, and that's the way that the instructions call it out. I can't imagine why you would want to put the bottom ones on first. My expierence was that the tops came out almost perfect with 2 people doing the riveting. The bottoms have many more OPPS type issues as I was reaching and riveting and slipping etc. I figured that I would rather have the tops be perfect than the bottoms. There is really not many rivets that were that hard to reach in doing the bottoms last. There are some pictures of how I reached in and curved the skins on my website. - Andy Karmy RV9A - Seattle WA http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KIKIDEEMAX(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 29, 2002
Subject: Re: Elevartor E-906 root rib
TOM, 4-29-02 I BENT THE FLANGES TO DIMPLE THEM WITH A HAND DIMPLER. I WAS ABLE TO USE A 0.25" THICK PIECE OF STEEL PLATE TO BUCK THE LAST FEW RIVETS, SAVE THE VERY LAST; I POPRIVETED THAT ONE ON EACH SIDE. MY TEC. ADVISOR OK'D THAT. DAVID MORGAN #90079 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Elevartor E-906 root rib
Date: Apr 29, 2002
I made a "matching plate" from a 8" piece of 2" x 3/8" bar stock, ground down to fit in the "space available". In one corner, I drilled a #40 pilot hole and then countersunk the surface to match the male dimple die, which I put in the shaft obtained from my bench mounted dimpler. After clamping the bar to my bench, I lined everything up (bar, E-906 rib, male die on the end of the shaft) and "wacked" the shaft to form the necessary dimples. Dave 90347 Finishing Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Grant" <tgrant(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV9-List: Elevartor E-906 root rib > > How did you guys dimple the flange for the last 2 or 3 holes in the E-906 > root rib? My squeezer won't fit as the spacing is too close to the opposite > flange. Did you get in there with the pop-rivet dimple dies? How did you get > the nail though the hole? The tolerance on the #40 hole is too tight to get > the nail through at an angle. Did you bend the flange out slightly? Lastly, > did you use pop rivets or squeeze the rivets for these holes? > > Tom Grant - 90300 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Top or bottom wing skin first?
Date: Apr 29, 2002
Mark, I finished my wings earlier this year and, clearly, the RV-9A manual says to rivet the top skins on first. I believe the reason behind it is two fold: First, the top skins will be seen all the time and you would probably be able to do a better job of riveting them if you have all the access in the world. So do these first. Second, the stiffeners (J-stringers) and doublers are placed under the top skins. So, why mess with them in the blind. The task of riveting the bottom skins was pain in the rear, and the last thing I would want to do is to have to mess with the stringers and doublers. Good luck either way. Let us know how it turns out. Fabian 90292 (Working on Fuselage) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RV9-List: Top or bottom wing skin first? > > Those of you who have completed your 9A wings, are you riveting the top or > bottom skins first? I noticed on the main RV list that several 6A builders > who put the top skin on first said they would put the bottom skin on first > if they had to do it again. Any thoughts? > > Mark Schrimmer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Top or bottom wing skin first?
Date: Apr 29, 2002
I noticed that discussion also and it puzzle me somewhat. You start riveting the bottom skins on by reaching down from the top and setting the rear spar first and working your way up the ribs. You have to reach in thru the inspection holes to set the last few rivets. If you did the bottom skins first how do you set the last few rivets in the top skin? Albert Gardner RV-9A working on FWF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RV9-List: Top or bottom wing skin first? > > Those of you who have completed your 9A wings, are you riveting the top or > bottom skins first? I noticed on the main RV list that several 6A builders > who put the top skin on first said they would put the bottom skin on first > if they had to do it again. Any thoughts? > > Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Top or bottom wing skin first?
Date: Apr 29, 2002
Top First Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: -9 parts on the mail order VANS web site
Date: Apr 30, 2002
From personal experience with Vans, I find it is very important to call back the next day and get tracking information, both so you can track the order and mainly, so you can confirm it actually was shipped. For some reason, the parts ordering people don't automatically get tracking information from the shipping department so they have to call shipping while you're on hold to get that info. Vans does a good job but don't count on them being perfect. Several of my orders have slipped through the cracks-I once waited a week only to find when I called to see why the delay, that it for some unknown reason, it had not yet shipped. On common items you can usually beat their prices as well as get far quicker response from Spruce, Avery, Cleveland, etc. Several of these suppliers automatically send you an email when they ship and some include tracking info. Albert Gardner RV-9A 90132 Working on FWF BTW, I don't want to start a thread dissing Van's-they're good just not perfect. do not archieve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Locktite on aileron bellcrank bracket bolts
Is anybody putting Locktite on the bolts that hold the brackets for the aileron bellcrank to the spar? If you just need to torque them to the correct value, should you also put Boelube on the bolts so they don't get stuck in the nutplates? Thanks, Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com>
Subject: Locktite on aileron bellcrank bracket bolts
Date: May 03, 2002
Hello Mark, I didn't use any Locktite or Boelube on these, it seems that applying both would be a conflict in their intended application. I did however apply TorqueSeal to the heads of these bolts. It doesn't offer any prevention from coming loose, but it provides a visual indication if the bolts have rotated at all. Another interesting tip I picked up is to always install vertical nut and bolt hardware with the nut on the bottom and the bolt on the top. That way if the nut does come off, you've still got gravity working for you to keep the bolt in place. This would apply to all the aileron bell crank linkage hardware. This also keeps the nuts visible easily from the inspection plate hole to make inspection of the torque seal on these easy. I use the torque seal on every nut and bolt that I've torqued to spec with the intention of not removing it again. That way it's easy to tell much later in the process if I've forgotten to tighten up something. Todd -----Original Message----- From: Mark Schrimmer [mailto:mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net] Subject: RV9-List: Locktite on aileron bellcrank bracket bolts Is anybody putting Locktite on the bolts that hold the brackets for the aileron bellcrank to the spar? If you just need to torque them to the correct value, should you also put Boelube on the bolts so they don't get stuck in the nutplates? Thanks, Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Locktite on aileron bellcrank bracket bolts
Date: May 03, 2002
>> Another interesting tip I picked up is to always install vertical nut and bolt hardware with the nut on the bottom and the bolt on the top. That way if the nut does come off, you've still got gravity working for you to keep the bolt in place. << This is a good rule to follow; Top Down, Front Back. Either the gravity holds the bolt in or the wind pushes it back. There are only a few exceptions; accessibility constraint (spar carrythrough), excessive heat, castled nut, etc. If you aren't following the rule then double check to see if it's correct.. Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop Finish Kit 15% Complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred New" <fred.new(at)delfi.ee>
Subject: Locktite on aileron bellcrank bracket bolts
Date: May 04, 2002
Hello Mark, I would be cautious of torquing with a lubricant on the bolt. As I recall, most torque values are for dry threads. If you use anything that acts as a lubricant, you can over-torque your bolts. The data sheet on SAF-T-EZE TorqueSeal, http://www.saftlok.com/safteze/tds/torque_seal.pdf, doesn't mention how it influences torque values, but does say, "If sufficient time is not allowed for solvent evaporation, bolts must be retorqued after 24 hours." This seems to imply that it doesn't affect torque values, except when it is too wet. Fred New Hello Mark, I didn't use any Locktite or Boelube on these, it seems that applying both would be a conflict in their intended application. I did however apply TorqueSeal to the heads of these bolts. It doesn't offer any prevention from coming loose, but it provides a visual indication if the bolts have rotated at all. Another interesting tip I picked up is to always install vertical nut and bolt hardware with the nut on the bottom and the bolt on the top. That way if the nut does come off, you've still got gravity working for you to keep the bolt in place. This would apply to all the aileron bell crank linkage hardware. This also keeps the nuts visible easily from the inspection plate hole to make inspection of the torque seal on these easy. I use the torque seal on every nut and bolt that I've torqued to spec with the intention of not removing it again. That way it's easy to tell much later in the process if I've forgotten to tighten up something. Todd -----Original Message----- From: Mark Schrimmer [mailto:mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net] Subject: RV9-List: Locktite on aileron bellcrank bracket bolts Is anybody putting Locktite on the bolts that hold the brackets for the aileron bellcrank to the spar? If you just need to torque them to the correct value, should you also put Boelube on the bolts so they don't get stuck in the nutplates? Thanks, Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Guy Votuc" <guy(at)votuc.com>
Subject: Filler Caps
Date: May 05, 2002
Hi, While finishing off my first ( Ugh! ) fuel tank yesterday , I started thinking about the filler cap. I don't care much for the design or the quality. First off, it sits slightly below the surface of the skin and acts a funnel for water just begging to find a place to go. If the seal is not perfect it will have a natural tendency to end up in the tank. Their are numerous STC's , Bulletin's and warning's concerning flush type caps. In the Cessna world they call them "killer fuel caps" http://www.monarch-air.com/caps/killer.htm . On top of that, I can just see some clown trying to use a screwdriver on my plane to pry up the tiny release lever with a design that makes it impossible to use your finger on. The tighter you make the seal to stop leaks, the more force needed to pry it back open. I see little nicks in the edges with every release. Anybody seen anything better or a neat mod to modify this ? Guy Dilliner , Pa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Filler Caps
Date: May 05, 2002
Contact Greg Klema. He has a neat key ring tool that does what you want. p51GREG(at)aol.com The Cessna caps at least on the rag wing 170 has a deep funnel type recess about 3/4 of an inch wide. The volume of the recess on Van's cap is very tiny. If you preflight, you should not Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter have a problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Votuc" <guy(at)votuc.com> Subject: RV9-List: Filler Caps Hi, While finishing off my first ( Ugh! ) fuel tank yesterday , I started thinking about the filler cap. I don't care much for the design or the quality. First off, it sits slightly below the surface of the skin and acts a funnel for water just begging to find a place to go. If the seal is not perfect it will have a natural tendency to end up in the tank. Their are numerous STC's , Bulletin's and warning's concerning flush type caps. In the Cessna world they call them "killer fuel caps" http://www.monarch-air.com/caps/killer.htm . On top of that, I can just see some clown trying to use a screwdriver on my plane to pry up the tiny release lever with a design that makes it impossible to use your finger on. The tighter you make the seal to stop leaks, the more force needed to pry it back open. I see little nicks in the edges with every release. Anybody seen anything better or a neat mod to modify this ? Guy Dilliner , Pa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Grant" <tgrant(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Filler Caps
Date: May 05, 2002
Hey Guy; Just a thought, but how hard would it be to set up Van's cap in a test scenario similar to the Cessna test just to see if we would be at risk? It seems to me that although the Cessna problem is interesting and informative we're comparing apples to oranges. Yes, it does raise stray neurons of doubt and suspect but non-conclusive at best. I'd like to see data on our filler caps. Are the guys that have finished their projects and are flying encountering any excess agua in their fuel? Of the people that I know that have finished, flying projects, none are kept outside. (They enjoy the luxury of being hangared all the time). I haven't heard them talk about any problems along this line. I hope we can get more responses to this potential problem. Tom Atlanta, GA 90300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Filler Caps
Date: May 05, 2002
Guy.....Cy gave a good answer. The only problems with Van's fuel caps I have heard of is that a small amount of water can leak in if the little O-ring around the shaft is boken or missing. Also, lubricate the cap seal O-ring with fuel whenever you replace the cap, so they don't stick. Keep the shaft nut adjusted properly so they seal without being super tight, and replace the big O-ring if it ever needs it. Van's sells replacements. I like the flush caps as they are, and never had a problem with them on the RV-4 I flew for a while. Gary > > Hi, > > While finishing off my first ( Ugh! ) fuel tank yesterday , I started > thinking about the filler cap. I don't care much for the design or the > quality................ On top of that, I can just see > some clown trying to use a screwdriver on my plane to pry up the tiny > release lever with a design that makes it impossible to use your finger on. > The tighter you make the seal to stop leaks, the more force needed to pry it > back open. I see little nicks in the edges with every release. Anybody seen > anything better or a neat mod to modify this ? > > > Guy > Dilliner , Pa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Filler Caps
Date: May 05, 2002
Vans was advertising a different fuel cap at their booth at Sun-N-Fun. I asked about it's claim to fame and was told that it fits a little better, is easier to use, and looks cleaner. I haven't looked at their web site lately, but you might look into this if you are bothered by the stock caps. Personally, with all the RV's out there, I think you would hear a lot of loud howling if these caps were causing problems. Besides, nobody will be opening my caps but me! Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Step kit
Date: May 06, 2002
Any reason NOT to use c/sunk (flush) rivets on the step to make it look less like a wart? It would seem better looking but why did VANS not do it that way. All other external rivets are flush. Steve. #90360 N Yorks., UK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: Step kit
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> >Any reason NOT to use c/sunk (flush) rivets on the step to make it look >less like a wart? It would seem better looking but why did VANS not do I did a bit of research on the main RV list on this one and the results were inconclusive. I found many that have mounted the flange on the inside of the skins and used flush rivets on the outside. This makes for a harder construction, but a very nice looking step. This is the method that I would like to try when I get there. (I'm just now building the center fuselage section so stay tuned). Maby Scott M could iluminate us as to why the standard method is external with bumps. -- Andy Karmy andy(at)karmy.com -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Conduit through the tunnel.
Date: May 06, 2002
I need to stop waffling on how much stuff I route through the tunnel beneath the baggage area. After researching the archives, Rvator, etc., I decided to route the static source beneath the canopy rail. I can't stand to look at it anymore. Looks ugly! I'm just not comfortable with a big hole in the baggage bulkhead - and the pushtube in the tunnel. So far I have the static source, elevator trim (5 #26 gauge), tail position light wire, flap motor wire and the ELT wire to the panel. I haven't planned for antennae yet - but at least I have alternatives there. Has anyone had any problems with routing everything through the one tunnel, including the static? I am cutting my canopy - need to rivet the aft skins on very soon. Thanks for any help. Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop Finish Kit 15% Complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Step kit
Date: May 06, 2002
Steve....use flush rivets. I did. I can't imagine why anyone would use lumpy-headed ones on the step plate. I had mine chromed, and painted the plate to match the fuselage. Gary Any reason NOT to use c/sunk (flush) rivets on the step to make it look less like a wart? It would seem better looking but why did VANS not do it that way. All other external rivets are flush. Steve. #90360 N Yorks., UK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Step kit
on 5/6/02 11:57 AM, Gary at rv9er(at)3rivers.net wrote: > > Steve....use flush rivets. I did. I can't imagine why anyone would use > lumpy-headed ones on the step plate. > > I had mine chromed, and painted the plate to match the fuselage. > > Gary > Gary, Was it hard to countersink the steel plate? Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Larsen" <slickrock@been-there.com>
Subject: Re: Step kit
Date: May 06, 2002
Use flush rivets. Countersinking the steel is no problem.. Try mounting the plate on the inside for a neat installation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: RV9-List: Step kit > > Any reason NOT to use c/sunk (flush) rivets on the step to make it look > less like a wart? It would seem better looking but why did VANS not do > it that way. All other external rivets are flush. > Steve. > > #90360 > N Yorks., UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Conduit through the tunnel.
Date: May 06, 2002
Ernest, Electrical systems is one area where Vans leaves their builders in the dark. You just need to route wiring as directly as you can without interfering with controls. The only downside I can think of for running the static line through the tunnel too, is that you are creating one heck of a "low spot" in the tube that is likely to trap condensation. If even a few drops collect at a low spot, they will cause erratic instrument behavior or even instrument damage. Many planes use a small plastic sump at a low point to trap water. Vans approach was to route the static line higher than the ports initially, then roughly level all the way to the panel. If you do this right, then the only part that is exposed is in the baggage bay and its not that noticable. I have chosen to route in the left side tunnel bushings, the trim motor (2 wires), the strobe, position, and cargo light power & grounds. The right side gets the trim indicators (3 wires), flap motor (2 wires), ELT remote cord, EFIS magnetometer cable, and speaker coax (2). The basic thinking was that anything needing to run all the way to the panel would take the right side, and anything meeting up with the wing harness or trim stick buttons would take the left side. Works good for me! Antennae are further forward in my bird. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Kells <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> Subject: RV9-List: Conduit through the tunnel. > > I need to stop waffling on how much stuff I route through the tunnel beneath > the baggage area. After researching the archives, Rvator, etc., I decided > to route the static source beneath the canopy rail. I can't stand to look > at it anymore. Looks ugly! I'm just not comfortable with a big hole in the > baggage bulkhead - and the pushtube in the tunnel. So far I have the static > source, elevator trim (5 #26 gauge), tail position light wire, flap motor > wire and the ELT wire to the panel. I haven't planned for antennae yet - > but at least I have alternatives there. Has anyone had any problems with > routing everything through the one tunnel, including the static? > I am cutting my canopy - need to rivet the aft skins on very soon. Thanks > for any help. > Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop > Finish Kit 15% Complete > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Step kit
Date: May 06, 2002
Mark....No problem c/sinking the steel plate. Of course, I had it all formed and countersunk before chroming..... I saw Kevin Shannon's plane at Arlington. He mounted the step plates inside the skin. Looked good, if you want to try that method. Steve, I doubt you could do this. Your Q-build has the baggage ribs installed already, right? Gary Gary, Was it hard to countersink the steel plate? Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Guy Votuc" <guy(at)votuc.com>
Subject: Outboard leading edge rivets
Date: May 07, 2002
Ok, Am I missing something in the manual or drawing concerning riveting the leading edge ? The way I read the manual it says to rivet the leading edge skin to the ribs and then mount the completed unit to the main spar. It also says with the main skins off the wing, access to the rib to spar rivets will be available . Am I to assume I have to reach through the Lightning holes in the ribs and buck the AD4's blind ? I can see doing the outer ones through the holes in the spar but not the ones torward the tank side. What am I missing ( besides pop rivets ) :>) Guy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "l.carper" <l.carper(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Outboard leading edge rivets
Date: May 07, 2002
Your correct, you must reach in from both ends thru the lighting holes. I had some Cherry max that I used for the near impossible ones. I don't like bucking in the blind, makes for an ugly shop head. Some folks use a long bucking bar, but I tried it and was worried about the quality of the end product. Cherry max work great, just as strong or stronger, but expensive (should use the Cherry max tool to get correct size rivet). Good luck, L Carper RV-9A Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Votuc" <guy(at)votuc.com> Subject: RV9-List: Outboard leading edge rivets > > Ok, Am I missing something in the manual or drawing concerning riveting the > leading edge ? The way I read the manual it says to rivet the leading edge > skin to the ribs and then mount the completed unit to the main spar. It also > says with the main skins off the wing, access to the rib to spar rivets will > be available . Am I to assume I have to reach through the Lightning holes in > the ribs and buck the AD4's blind ? I can see doing the outer ones through > the holes in the spar but not the ones torward the tank side. What am I > missing ( besides pop rivets ) :>) > > Guy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Outboard leading edge rivets
Date: May 07, 2002
Guy.....I agree with Carper. I did some with AN's and some with pop rivets. LP4-3's, if I remember right. When I was done, I wondered why I fooled with bucking any but the easiest. Some of the more obsessive/retentive guys insist on abusing themselves so they can say "no pop rivets for me." Van's says use whichever you choose. I would say use your own judgement, and why fight the tough ones. Gary Your correct, you must reach in from both ends thru the lighting holes. I had some Cherry max that I used for the near impossible ones. I don't like bucking in the blind, makes for an ugly shop head. Some folks use a long bucking bar, but I tried it and was worried about the quality of the end product. Cherry max work great, just as strong or stronger, but expensive (should use the Cherry max tool to get correct size rivet). Good luck, L Carper RV-9A Wings > concerning riveting the > leading edge ............. Am I to assume I have to reach through the Lightning holes in > the ribs and buck the AD4's blind ? I can see doing the outer ones through > the holes in the spar but not the ones torward the tank side. What am I > missing ( besides pop rivets ) :>) > > Guy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Outboard leading edge rivets
on 5/7/02 8:06 AM, Gary at rv9er(at)3rivers.net wrote: > > Guy.....I agree with Carper. I did some with AN's and some with pop > rivets. LP4-3's, if I remember right. When I was done, I wondered why > I fooled with bucking any but the easiest. Some of the more > obsessive/retentive guys insist on abusing themselves so they can say > "no pop rivets for me." Van's says use whichever you choose. > Gary, Where does Van's say you can use LP4-3 pop rivets? Can you use them to replace almost all the solid rivets? Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Outboard leading edge rivets
on 5/6/02 10:46 PM, Guy Votuc at guy(at)votuc.com wrote: > > Ok, Am I missing something in the manual or drawing concerning riveting the > leading edge ? The way I read the manual it says to rivet the leading edge > skin to the ribs and then mount the completed unit to the main spar. Guy, Check out this post from Charlie Kuss. Its what I plan to do unless I find out you can use pop rivets. Mark Schrimmer >As I promised last week, I've uploaded a text file and photos of a >special bucking bar I've made. This bar solves a very difficult riveting >situation on the wings of RV-7/A, RV-8/A and RV-9As. Check it out at: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SEFlaRVbuilders/files/Useful%20Tools/Binford%2090 00%20bucking%20bar/ Charlie Kuss RV-8A fuselage Boca Raton, Fl. End Msg: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Step kit
Date: May 07, 2002
Andy, if you are going to do this remember to do it early because once the side skin is attached to very much you will be too late! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Step kit > > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> > > >Any reason NOT to use c/sunk (flush) rivets on the step to make it look > >less like a wart? It would seem better looking but why did VANS not do > > I did a bit of research on the main RV list on this one and the results were inconclusive. I found many that have mounted the flange on the inside of the skins and used flush rivets on the outside. This makes for a harder construction, but a very nice looking step. This is the method that I would like to try when I get there. (I'm just now building the center fuselage section so stay tuned). > > Maby Scott M could iluminate us as to why the standard method is external with bumps. > > > -- > Andy Karmy > andy(at)karmy.com > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 07, 2002
I decided today I would c'snk and checked it out on a piece of the similar steel. C'snk ing was easy and the steel seemed thick enough. Then I rec'd this! Now I am confused! Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> Subject: Re: Step kit > The problem is that the steel is not really thick enough to be csk. > Possibly you could use a lot of the AN426AD3 rivets, but it is > behind the wing so the added drag is minimal, and csking the steel > is a pain. > > Gus > > On 6 May 02, at 14:58, Steve Sampson wrote: > > > Any reason NOT to use c/sunk (flush) rivets on the step to make it > > look less like a wart? It would seem better looking but why did VANS > > not do it that way. All other external rivets are flush. > > > > Steve. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 07, 2002
What is the thickness of the Steel? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit I decided today I would c'snk and checked it out on a piece of the similar steel. C'snk ing was easy and the steel seemed thick enough. Then I rec'd this! Now I am confused! Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> Subject: Re: Step kit > The problem is that the steel is not really thick enough to be csk. > Possibly you could use a lot of the AN426AD3 rivets, but it is > behind the wing so the added drag is minimal, and csking the steel > is a pain. > > Gus > > On 6 May 02, at 14:58, Steve Sampson wrote: > > > Any reason NOT to use c/sunk (flush) rivets on the step to make it > > look less like a wart? It would seem better looking but why did VANS > > not do it that way. All other external rivets are flush. > > > > Steve. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Outboard leading edge rivets
Date: May 07, 2002
Gary, Where does Van's say you can use LP4-3 pop rivets? Can you use them to replace almost all the solid rivets? Mark Schrimmer Mark......Yes, that is what I have been told. Van's specifically said I could use LP4-3's for attaching nose ribs to the spar web. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 07, 2002
Steve and Cy.........my step plates are .063 steel. Section 5 of the Van's manual says the minimum thickness that can be machine countersunk for AN426AD4 rivets is .050. Far as I know, if the material is thicker than the required countersink depth, you can countersink. Right, Cy? Gary I decided today I would c'snk and checked it out on a piece of the similar steel. C'snk ing was easy and the steel seemed thick enough. Then I rec'd this! Now I am confused! Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> To: "Steve Sampson" Subject: Re: Step kit > The problem is that the steel is not really thick enough to be csk. > Possibly you could use a lot of the AN426AD3 rivets, but it is > behind the wing so the added drag is minimal, and csking the steel > is a pain. > > Gus What is the thickness of the Steel? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: Filler Caps
Date: May 07, 2002
The new fuel caps are on Van's web site (accessories catalog). Not retrofittable, they come with the required flange for new tank construction. $75 each, and $90 if you want a keyed lock. Gary Vans was advertising a different fuel cap at their booth at Sun-N-Fun. I asked about it's claim to fame and was told that it fits a little better, is easier to use, and looks cleaner. I haven't looked at their web site lately, but you might look into this if you are bothered by the stock caps. Personally, with all the RV's out there, I think you would hear a lot of loud howling if these caps were causing problems. Besides, nobody will be opening my caps but me! Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 07, 2002
You have it right. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit Steve and Cy.........my step plates are .063 steel. Section 5 of the Van's manual says the minimum thickness that can be machine countersunk for AN426AD4 rivets is .050. Far as I know, if the material is thicker than the required countersink depth, you can countersink. Right, Cy? Gary I decided today I would c'snk and checked it out on a piece of the similar steel. C'snk ing was easy and the steel seemed thick enough. Then I rec'd this! Now I am confused! Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> To: "Steve Sampson" Subject: Re: Step kit > The problem is that the steel is not really thick enough to be csk. > Possibly you could use a lot of the AN426AD3 rivets, but it is > behind the wing so the added drag is minimal, and csking the steel > is a pain. > > Gus What is the thickness of the Steel? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Outboard leading edge rivets
on 5/7/02 4:40 PM, Gary at rv9er(at)3rivers.net wrote: > > Gary, > > Where does Van's say you can use LP4-3 pop rivets? Can you use them to > replace almost all the solid rivets? > > Mark Schrimmer > > > Mark......Yes, that is what I have been told. Van's specifically said I > could use LP4-3's for attaching nose ribs to the spar web. > > Gary Wow! That sounds like a real time-saver. Thanks, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 07, 2002
People were countersinking steel long before aluminum was invented... There's no reason not to countersink the step plates, they come out fine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Guy Votuc" <guy(at)votuc.com>
Subject: Re: Filler Caps
Date: May 08, 2002
Thanks Gary, I saw those a while back but don't see any real advantage to them other than finish and the key lock option. I'm not sure what if anything I will do about this just yet. On the one hand you have hundreds if not thousands ( according to VAN's ) of RV's flying with the same fuel system we are building today, with no apparent problems and I see no indication of a major problem with RV's and water contamination while doing a NTSB search. On the other hand, the only time I'll know "for sure" that my filler cap is really sealing will be during the tank pressure test . After that I have to take it on faith and do inspections of the seal and o-ring. If I had my design choice I would have a .020-.030 thick lip on the filler cap about a quarter of a inch bigger in diameter than the skin opening. I would have a thin rubber gasket glued to the bottom side of this lip and I would make the cap screw in with a recessed finger hold. Throw in a interegal key lock and a polished or chrome finish and I would be happy. Too much to ask ? They already use this system in a lot of car racing type filler caps so I know it can be done. My concern would be with the damage to the airflow over the leading edge with any type of lip sticking up. In the end I may just give my wings a good bounce or two during pre-flight after a soaking in the rain.... Guy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Filler Caps > > The new fuel caps are on Van's web site (accessories catalog). Not > retrofittable, they come with the required flange for new tank > construction. $75 each, and $90 if you want a keyed lock. > > Gary > > > Vans was advertising a different fuel cap at their booth at Sun-N-Fun. > I asked > about it's claim to fame and was told that it fits a little better, is > easier to > use, and looks cleaner. I haven't looked at their web site lately, > but you > might look into this if you are bothered by the stock caps. > Personally, with > all the RV's out there, I think you would hear a lot of loud howling > if these > caps were causing problems. Besides, nobody will be opening my caps > but me! > > Gary > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Filler Caps
Date: May 08, 2002
Sounds like a potential product line! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Grant" <tgrant(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Elevator trim-tab servo
Date: May 09, 2002
Just a quick question; I want to go ahead and finish up the left elevator but don't have the electric servo in hand to complete the job. Would finishing up the elevator without the servo be the wrong thing to do? I can wait, but don't want to. Comments? I don't want to put the horse before the cart and end up with twice the effort... Tom 90300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 09, 2002
I thought I ought to share Gus's explanation: The point is that there is not much bearing surface left on the shank of the rivet, and the thin edge of steel left tends to cut through it. We have had these steps work loose even with the round heads (admittedly ours get more of a hammering than yours will), so that is why we've stuck with the 470s. If you plan on being gentle with yours you can get away with the csk ones. Gus I guess I will go roundhead! Steve. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2002
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
on 5/9/02 10:14 AM, Steve Sampson at SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu wrote: > > I thought I ought to share Gus's explanation: > > The point is that there is not much bearing surface left on the > shank of the rivet, and the thin edge of steel left tends to cut > through it. We have had these steps work loose even with the > round heads (admittedly ours get more of a hammering than yours > will), so that is why we've stuck with the 470s. If you plan on being > gentle with yours you can get away with the csk ones. > > Gus > > I guess I will go roundhead! > Steve. Thanks for the explanation Steve. I'm going to go roundhead, too! On a similar note, one of the guys in my chapter put his step on with pop rivets, which it says are acceptable in the plans. Our tech counselor saw the pop rivets and really disapproved. He didn't think they would be strong enough over the long haul. Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Ok, one more in on this one. Me too for round head... I posted the same query to Scott McDaniels and got the same reply, even with round head rivets they have to replace them sometimes on the demo aircraft. It's a tough area... So I posted the question to my wife the other day while building and she just laughed at me... Something about the vaniety of it all. Worrying about a few bumped head rivets on the step. She told me to just get building and do what ever will get the plane done the fastest and the safest... - Andy Karmy ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:53:52 -0700 > >Thanks for the explanation Steve. I'm going to go roundhead, too! > >Mark Schrimmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roy Taylor" <Royandjilly(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Firewall insulation
Date: May 09, 2002
Has anybody any ideas as to what material or combination of materials will insulate sound and heat from the engine bay. obviously it's on the cockpit side, but what's the best time to apply it...before all the penetration of the firewall, or after all the connections are made? Roy 90425 Just started emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall insulation
Date: May 09, 2002
I used 1/2 inch thick closed cell insulation, You can get this at any shop that does aircraft interiors, or possibly Aircraft Spruce. Before riveting the firewall stiffeners or anything else I sandwiched a piece of heavy paper between the firewall and the stiffeners and made patterns for cutting the insulation, some of these will later have to have holes made for anything that goes thru the firewall. A proper size arch punch does a good job. All these pieces can be attached later when you are done working on the firewall. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim-tab servo
Date: May 09, 2002
You shouldn't have a problem adding it later. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator trim-tab servo
Date: May 09, 2002
...I should have mentioned that your trim tab will require the trim servo control horn, but from what I recall (it was many thousand rivets ago) you use the one that Vans supplies, not the one that comes with the servo. Can someone else verify this? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall insulation
Date: May 09, 2002
For what it's worth, Vans doesn't insulate the firewalls on any of their planes. I asked about this at Sun-N-Fun and was told they never felt it was necessary. ...we Subaru fliers can ignore the insulation and toss away our headsets too! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 09, 2002
I wonder if a little Pro-Seal between the Step Plate and the Fuselage would keep the rivets from gradually working loose. Dave 90347 Finishing Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > Ok, one more in on this one. Me too for round head... > > I posted the same query to Scott McDaniels and got the same reply, even with round head rivets they have to replace them sometimes on the demo aircraft. It's a tough area... > > So I posted the question to my wife the other day while building and she just laughed at me... Something about the vaniety of it all. Worrying about a few bumped head rivets on the step. She told me to just get building and do what ever will get the plane done the fastest and the safest... > > - Andy Karmy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 10, 2002
I still haven't heard anyone mention the obvious fix. How about screws into nutplates? Worked well for me. I added a backing plate on the inside and used six countersunk screws. It pulls in nice and tight and it ain't goin' nowhere. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Nicholson <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > I wonder if a little Pro-Seal between the Step Plate and the Fuselage would > keep the rivets from gradually working loose. > > Dave > 90347 > Finishing Kit > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > > > > > Ok, one more in on this one. Me too for round head... > > > > I posted the same query to Scott McDaniels and got the same reply, even > with round head rivets they have to replace them sometimes on the demo > aircraft. It's a tough area... > > > > So I posted the question to my wife the other day while building and she > just laughed at me... Something about the vaniety of it all. Worrying about > a few bumped head rivets on the step. She told me to just get building and > do what ever will get the plane done the fastest and the safest... > > > > - Andy Karmy > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 10, 2002
Seems heavy and localizes the loading on six screws rather than 18 rivets. On the other hand, if you want to be able to remove the step, bolts are the way to go. Dave 90347 Finishing Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > I still haven't heard anyone mention the obvious fix. How about > screws into nutplates? Worked well for me. I added a backing > plate on the inside and used six countersunk screws. It pulls in > nice and tight and it ain't goin' nowhere. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnCClarkVA(at)cs.com
Date: May 10, 2002
Subject: Re: Firewall insulation
Regarding insulation on the firewall. Consider a fire on the front side of the firewall and what will auto-ignite on the backside (ignites from the heat transmitted through the firewall without direct flame). Most close-celled foam would be a tremendous energy source. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 11, 2002
Having put the passenger step on I am very tempted to leave the one for the pilot (me) off. I find them very ugly. Anyone know how high the step up onto the wing is? Thoughts? Steve #90360 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > Seems heavy and localizes the loading on six screws rather than 18 rivets. > On the other hand, if you want to be able to remove the step, bolts are the > way to go. > > Dave > 90347 > Finishing Kit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> > To: > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > > > > > I still haven't heard anyone mention the obvious fix. How about > > screws into nutplates? Worked well for me. I added a backing > > plate on the inside and used six countersunk screws. It pulls in > > nice and tight and it ain't goin' nowhere. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 11, 2002
> Having put the passenger step on I am very tempted to leave the > one for the > pilot (me) off. I find them very ugly. Anyone know how high the > step up onto > the wing is? Thoughts? > > Steve > #90360 > 32 inches, High enough. I originally ordered my fuse with no steps even though I had already been for a ride in the demonstrator. The next year when I was back at Arlington, I realized that there was no way my woman was going to climb up easily (she's 5'4) even though she's young enough. Then I started being honest with myself and admitted that I really didn't want to be high stepping up onto the wing either. Just imagine loading anything. Because I had the fuse mostly complete when I bought the steps I was not able to put the flange under the skin, but they look fine (countersunk rivets) and I'm happy with them. S. Todd Bartrim 13B rotary powered RV-9endurance (finish kit) C-FSTB (reserved) http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2002
From: Bill Rounds <wrounds(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Steve The wing too high to get on to with out some sort of aid. I didn't put the step kit on so will have to carry around some sort of device such as a plastic bucket or small folding ladder to get in the plane. It sounds wierd but a telescoping stilt would work really well if there was such a thing. I am thinking about a device that can be used for chocks as well as getting into the plane. It sounds odd but is workable. You will need to carry special low profile chocks with you because the ones on the ramp will not fit under the wheel pants. It seems most of the builders make their chocks out of PVC pipe. Bill Rounds 90362 Finish kit Steve Sampson wrote: > >Having put the passenger step on I am very tempted to leave the one for the >pilot (me) off. I find them very ugly. Anyone know how high the step up onto >the wing is? Thoughts? > >Steve >#90360 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> >To: >Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > >> >>Seems heavy and localizes the loading on six screws rather than 18 rivets. >>On the other hand, if you want to be able to remove the step, bolts are >> >the > >>way to go. >> >>Dave >>90347 >>Finishing Kit >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit >> >> >>> >>>I still haven't heard anyone mention the obvious fix. How about >>>screws into nutplates? Worked well for me. I added a backing >>>plate on the inside and used six countersunk screws. It pulls in >>>nice and tight and it ain't goin' nowhere. >>> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Hauck" <ross(at)rossreels.com>
Subject: RE: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/10/02
Date: May 11, 2002
I'm 59 with a 30" inseam, and there's no way I would consider a trike without the step. I flew in Van's demonstrator RV-9(a) and simulated no step. No way. Even if I could have made the lift, stepping over the flap made it much too hazardous. Ross/RV-7A fuse interior N2SU reserved ________ From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit Having put the passenger step on I am very tempted to leave the one for the pilot (me) off. I find them very ugly. Anyone know how high the step up onto the wing is? Thoughts? Steve #90360 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Step kit
Date: May 11, 2002
Scaling off DWG 1A shows about 35" from the ground to the back edge of the wing (avoid stepping on the flap). It did not seem that high when I flew the 9A Demo at Sun-n-Fun, but the step was sure nice to have. I think I would want both steps installed just for the looks if nothing else. Dave 90347 Finishing Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fw: Step kit > > Having put the passenger step on I am very tempted to leave the one for the > pilot (me) off. I find them very ugly. Anyone know how high the step up onto > the wing is? Thoughts? > > Steve > #90360 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2002
From: federigo(at)pacbell.net
Subject: Re: e: RV9-List:Fw: Step Kit
Last week I saw an RV9A taking fuel at the Livermore airport, which is about 40 miles east of San Francisco. I was amazed at how high the wings are off the ground and decided that a step kit was pretty important, even the steps really are "butt ugly" and weigh more than all the lightening holes I could possibly drill in all the Alclad in the project. This plane was constructed from a Quick Build kit at the Builders Center in Griffin, Georgia. It took the owner three months to build it. He stayed there the whole time as he was not working then. It is equipped for IFR and has a new O320 from Vans with a fixed pitch propeller. The owner told me that it climbs at 1500 feet/minute when flown alone (I suppose at or near sea level) and the climb drops to 1000 feet/minute with a passenger and luggage. Question1: Where in the drawing package does it say where to mount the steps? Question2: Do the Aeroflex brake hoses come with the Finishing kit? Leland Working on plumbing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: e: RV9-List:Fw: Step Kit
Date: May 13, 2002
> "butt ugly" I like them! > Question1: Where in the drawing package does it say where to mount the > steps? It doesn't. You're on your own for that. It gives you a general idea of where they go, but you really need to have the steps in hand to figure it out, unless they've upgraded the plans from my set. > Question2: Do the Aeroflex brake hoses come with the Finishing kit? Yep. I noticed Vans planes have stainless ones, but we just get cloth covered. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: e: RV9-List:Fw: Step Kit
Date: May 12, 2002
Look on Drawing 28, on the F-970 forward side skin. It calls out a pilot hole for the location of the step....says to put a rivet in it if you don't have steps. Gary Question1: Where in the drawing package does it say where to mount the steps? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com>
Subject: Steps
Date: May 13, 2002
Does anyone have these steps not installed so they could be weighed. I remember them being very heavy. As to the instructions I thought they were very good, the inboard position of the left side had to be moved aft a bit to get the flange to sit flush against the skin. I considered bending the flanges but decided moving the end would be the best way to go. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2002
From: federigo(at)pacbell.net
Subject: Brake line routing
According to Larry Perryman's post (copied below), the wing attach nuts are difficult to get to. I am concerned about routing the brake lines through the Gear Attach hardware and still getting to the wing-attach nuts. Would it make sense to route those brake lines outward on the firewall and along the outer edges of the fuselage? The plans show both the fuel lines and the brake lines going right through the Gear Attach hardware. Finishing the fuel lines to the wings should not be difficult after the wings are attached. But I don't want to install the brakelines after the wings are on as the front of the fuse will be covered and access will be difficult. Leland in Pleasanton Plumbing > On the bottom, one bolt comes out directly behind the gear leg attach > bracket with about 1/8th of an inch more room than the nut and washer. The > other is only half covered but is right up against the four bolts you put > in > the side of the fuselage. > > You CAN NOT get a straight wrench on the outside nut. I was able to jam one > side with a screwdriver with enough force to allow me to torque the bolt up > to specs. The inside nut I was able to get enough of the wrench on to do > the job. The other side was harder. We did find a pair of thin jaw vice > grip > pliers would hold the nut so I was able to get them tightened also. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Subject: Re: Brake line routing
Date: May 13, 2002
I don't see any technical reason why you couldn't run the brake lines as you suggest. They would be shorter and simpler that way. With a little care you could add another snap bushing in the vertical ribs just below the vent line fitting to keep them out of harms way. The illustrated path results in the lines being of equal length, but I don't see where this little detail would cause any problems. Comments? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Brake line routing
Date: May 13, 2002
05/14/2002 02:30:46 AM, Serialize complete at 05/14/2002 02:30:46 AM Sorry if I lead you to believe that the bolts interfere with the lines. They do not. The lines run through the holes in the web of the gear leg. It is the bolts and nuts that are hard to get to because of the way the tube for the gear leg goes down toward the center spar. The bolt is behind the tube. Regards Larry Perryman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
Subject: Re: Brake line routing
Date: May 13, 2002
05/14/2002 02:36:30 AM, Serialize complete at 05/14/2002 02:36:30 AM

February 21, 2002 - May 14, 2002

RV9-Archive.digest.vol-ae