RV9-Archive.digest.vol-ah
October 18, 2002 - December 12, 2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Williams" <frate.dawg(at)attglobal.net> |
Todd: Thanx. I hadn't thought of that, but as I said, I don't have the
wing kit yet, nor anything to look at other than the preview plans
(which, at my advanced age, are damned hard to see, let alone read!)
Regards, John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Haywire
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aux Fuel
Hi John;
>
>
> Keith: Good question. There was a chap on about ten days ago
> who is doing
> a Mazda rotary in an RV-9, and who alluded to having added extra
> fuel. This
> so piqued my interest that I asked him to share how he did it with me.
> Haven't heard from him since! Musta' been something I said!
>
This would have been me, but I don't recall an e-mail from you.
I try to
answer all e-mails promptly, so maybe I accidentally deleted it or just
didn't receive it. I see that someone has already given you my web
address.
Most of the info you want can be found there. I will one day finish
writing
the procedure for building the OB tanks. After you look over the info on
my
site if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to e-mail me.
> I don't have my wing kit yet, nor the large drawings, but it sure
looks to
> me like you could switch the position of the tank outboard
> end-ribs with the
> adjacent wing nose ribs, and move the filler cap outboard to the next
> chamber, and pick up about two gallons (estimated) capacity on
I wouldn't go with this approach as you would either have to
make a new
longer IB leading edge skin or you would have a major seam on your tank.
Easier to just convert the OB leading edge as a separate tank.
>
> From an aerodynamic standpoint, engineers say that extra fuel
> carried as far
> outboard as possible is beneficial to the wing spar with regard to the
> bending moments and lessens stress on the spar.
This is true as it improves span loading as well as stability.
Unfortunately it also reduces spin recovery, but this should never be a
problem with proper flight management.
Hope this helps
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | k moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
I am having trouble visualizing the HS 908s. If I
understand the drawing it is narrower in L portion
(non spar side) than at the ends. Seems like the area
next to the spar does not taper? Does anybody know a
WEB site where I can see what this piece of angle is
going to look like. Not sure the tolerance, when they
give dimensions in 32s I assume it will be a tight fit
later.
Sorry for being so dense, I'm a little embarrassed
getting stuck of assembly step 2.
Any help would be appreciated.
Ken Moak
empennage
=====
Ken Moak
ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Votuc.com" <guy(at)votuc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS 908 question |
Here's a good picture of "attach brackets" from Tim's site http://www.deru.com/~rv9a/ ...thank s Tim..
Mine aren't that good but maybe for something else try here. . http://www.votuc.com/my_hobbys.htm
Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "k moak" <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV9-List: HS 908 question
>
> I am having trouble visualizing the HS 908s. If I
> understand the drawing it is narrower in L portion
> (non spar side) than at the ends. Seems like the area
> next to the spar does not taper? Does anybody know a
> WEB site where I can see what this piece of angle is
> going to look like. Not sure the tolerance, when they
> give dimensions in 32s I assume it will be a tight fit
> later.
>
> Sorry for being so dense, I'm a little embarrassed
> getting stuck of assembly step 2.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Ken Moak
> empennage
>
> =====
> Ken Moak
> ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
>
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert scott" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS 908 question |
You can check out a photo of mine at http://www.myrv9a.com/hs908.htm
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "k moak" <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV9-List: HS 908 question
>
> I am having trouble visualizing the HS 908s. If I
> understand the drawing it is narrower in L portion
> (non spar side) than at the ends. Seems like the area
> next to the spar does not taper? Does anybody know a
> WEB site where I can see what this piece of angle is
> going to look like. Not sure the tolerance, when they
> give dimensions in 32s I assume it will be a tight fit
> later.
>
> Sorry for being so dense, I'm a little embarrassed
> getting stuck of assembly step 2.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Ken Moak
> empennage
>
> =====
> Ken Moak
> ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
>
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com,
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) |
Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY
close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close
that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only vote
once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address will
not be counted.
Matt
At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow"
>
>Matt,
>
>You're doing a great job managing this.
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
> >
> >
> > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its
> > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists
> > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the
> > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added
> > them later and forgot that about the forwarding.
> >
> > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to
>keep
> > everything consistant.
> >
> > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can
> > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding
> > operation? Sounds like it they might...
> >
> > So let's vote! Drop me an email at:
> >
> > dralle(at)matronics.com
> >
> > with a simple:
> >
> > "Forward"
> > or
> > "Don't Forward"
> >
> > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and
> > announce the new method.
> >
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > List Admin.
> >
> >
> > >--------------
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >
> > >Gary,
> > >
> > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's
> > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get
> > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes
> > >across on the main RV-list.
> > >
> > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the
> > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the
> > >main RV-List.
> > >
> > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto
> > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find
> > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes
> > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't
> > >understand that they need study the original message to see where it
> > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct
> > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But,
> > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists.
> > >
> > >Kevin
> > >
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary"
> > >>
> > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics
> > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any
> > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to
> > >>the ones you want it to show up on.
> > >>
> > >>Gary
> > >>
> > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes
> > >>
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >>
> > >>Steve,
> > >>
> > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific
> > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy
> > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV
> > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list, ...............
> > >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator trailing edges... |
I am ready to drill my elevator trailing edges and have a question.
According to the directions for drilling, one is supposed to mark a
line 7/32 - 1/4 inch back from the leading edge of the wedge. If I do
this and then line it up with the predrilled holes on teh elevator, the
wedge sticks out from the trailing edge of the skin about 0.050". The
rudder was predrilled and it doesn't stick out at all.
Is this correct? The elevators trailing edge sticks out past the skin
but the rudder doesn't?? Or am I interperting something wrong?
Also, what sort of corrosion prevention is to be used on the trim tab
hinge (if any)? It sort of looks like it is anodized which would need
no additional coating.
Dick, 90573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert scott" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trailing edges... |
Mine extended out aprox. .025/.040. I just filed, block sanded and scotch
brighted the AEX flush with the skin after assembly.
Robert Scott
N472RV Reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Elevator trailing edges...
>
> I am ready to drill my elevator trailing edges and have a question.
> According to the directions for drilling, one is supposed to mark a
> line 7/32 - 1/4 inch back from the leading edge of the wedge. If I do
> this and then line it up with the predrilled holes on teh elevator, the
> wedge sticks out from the trailing edge of the skin about 0.050". The
> rudder was predrilled and it doesn't stick out at all.
>
> Is this correct? The elevators trailing edge sticks out past the skin
> but the rudder doesn't?? Or am I interperting something wrong?
>
> Also, what sort of corrosion prevention is to be used on the trim tab
> hinge (if any)? It sort of looks like it is anodized which would need
> no additional coating.
>
> Dick, 90573
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trailing edges... |
I would say line the wedge up where you like the fit, and don't worry about the
dimension. .050 sticking out is not going to look too good. Just make sure
you don't go too far the other way, or your holes will be in a portion of the
wedge that is too thin.
The hinges are anodized. I didn't prime them. You can determine whether aluminum
is anodized with an ohmmeter. Anodizing is Aluminum Oxide, and non-conductive......but
very thin.
Gary 90263
I am ready to drill my elevator trailing edges and have a question.
According to the directions for drilling, one is supposed to mark a
line 7/32 - 1/4 inch back from the leading edge of the wedge. If I do
this and then line it up with the predrilled holes on teh elevator, the
wedge sticks out from the trailing edge of the skin about 0.050". The
rudder was predrilled and it doesn't stick out at all.
Is this correct? The elevators trailing edge sticks out past the skin
but the rudder doesn't?? Or am I interperting something wrong?
Also, what sort of corrosion prevention is to be used on the trim tab
hinge (if any)? It sort of looks like it is anodized which would need
no additional coating.
Dick, 90573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV9 <rv9(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | New Builder introduction |
Hello,
My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit
number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all
of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in
North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work
on the VS.
I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's
intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my
progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions,
motiviations, etc. are all welcome.
http://webpages.charter.net/smottin
Steve Mottin
RV-9A Empennage
Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder introduction |
Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of
the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and
then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the
individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up
and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even
thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they
checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to
have fun.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
(After 2 years I can see the end from here.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net>
Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction
>
>
> Hello,
>
> My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit
> number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all
> of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in
> North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work
> on the VS.
>
> I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's
> intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my
> progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions,
> motiviations, etc. are all welcome.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/smottin
>
> Steve Mottin
> RV-9A Empennage
> Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder introduction) |
I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the
wing kit in a few weeks.
I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes
always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging
the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the
drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the
rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes
would actually create a better fit to the rivet.
I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That
is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions
to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without
saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before
dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot
shaft).
Dick Tasker, 90573
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
>Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of
>the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and
>then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the
>individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up
>and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even
>thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they
>checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to
>have fun.
>Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
>RV-9A: N872RV
>(After 2 years I can see the end from here.)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net>
>To:
>Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit
>>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all
>>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in
>>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work
>>on the VS.
>>
>>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's
>>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my
>>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions,
>>motiviations, etc. are all welcome.
>>
>>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin
>>
>>Steve Mottin
>>RV-9A Empennage
>>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott W. Hatten" <ScottHatten(at)columbus.rr.com> |
| Subject: | RV9A - Plans / Empennage |
Wanting to Purchase?
Looking for anyone who might have purchased the RV9A plans, or the Empennage and
have changed
thier mind, or decided the project is too big?
Scott W. Hatten
Pataskala, OH
N6153K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder introduction) |
Why do you guys want to second-guess the experts in sheet metal aircraft construction,
and the tool and die makers? Van's has made itself clear on this point
in the manual. The proceedures and fit are the way they are for good reasons,
which have been discussed (beat to death) on the list. Check the archives.
If it is too much work for you to match drill, I dont see how you will get very
far in the construction of an RV.
There was another long thread on the RV list about skipping deburring. It amazes
me. Why not just do it right? It is not difficult.
Gary
From: Richard Tasker
I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the
wing kit in a few weeks.
I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes
always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging
the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the
drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the
rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes
would actually create a better fit to the rivet.
I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That
is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions
to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without
saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before
dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot
shaft).
Dick Tasker, 90573
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
>Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many builders of
>the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts together and
>then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the
>individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it up
>and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without even
>thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on they
>checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going to
>have fun.
>Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
>RV-9A: N872RV
>(After 2 years I can see the end from here.)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net>
>To:
>Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit
>>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all
>>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in
>>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun work
>>on the VS.
>>
>>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's
>>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my
>>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions,
>>motiviations, etc. are all welcome.
>>
>>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin
>>
>>Steve Mottin
>>RV-9A Empennage
>>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Williams" <frate.dawg(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) |
Don't Forward! Thanx, Freightdog
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
rv6-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com;
rv9-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV9-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY
close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close
that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only
vote
once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address
will
not be counted.
Matt
At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow"
>
>Matt,
>
>You're doing a great job managing this.
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
> >
> >
> > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its
> > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8
Lists
> > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason,
the
> > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added
> > them later and forgot that about the forwarding.
> >
> > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists
to
>keep
> > everything consistant.
> >
> > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I
can
> > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding
> > operation? Sounds like it they might...
> >
> > So let's vote! Drop me an email at:
> >
> > dralle(at)matronics.com
> >
> > with a simple:
> >
> > "Forward"
> > or
> > "Don't Forward"
> >
> > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days
and
> > announce the new method.
> >
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > List Admin.
> >
> >
> > >--------------
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >
> > >Gary,
> > >
> > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of
Matt's
> > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I
get
> > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that
comes
> > >across on the main RV-list.
> > >
> > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the
> > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from
the
> > >main RV-List.
> > >
> > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists
Auto
> > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find
> > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes
> > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't
> > >understand that they need study the original message to see where
it
> > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct
> > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response.
But,
> > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists.
> > >
> > >Kevin
> > >
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary"
> > >>
> > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics
> > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to
any
> > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to
> > >>the ones you want it to show up on.
> > >>
> > >>Gary
> > >>
> > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes
> > >>
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >>
> > >>Steve,
> > >>
> > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model
specific
> > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the
copy
> > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main
RV
> > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list,
...............
> > >
> > >
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [RV-9A] cleco's |
I knew I was saving these little buggers for a reason ! Of my broken Clecos :
8 were Cleco brand
22 were Kwik Lok, and 104 were Wedge Lock. I know I got some from ATS while at
Oshkosh in '99 and some from Vans'. What brand does Brown Tool Co. sell Gary
? I will order the next ones from them.
Gene N557RV (res.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Williams" <frate.dawg(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder introduction) |
Dick: A couple of years ago, it was fashionable among some of the
"trophy hunter" guys to underdrill the holes while match drilling, using
say, a #41 bit instead of a #40 bit for skins. This, they reasoned, made
for a "tighter fit" of the rivet in the hole, and a prettier finish.
Deburring, does, in fact enlarge the hole slightly, but that's what it
is actually supposed to do. When you drill, you leave very small ridges,
tears, and sharp pointed edges in the inside edges of the hole. A
deburring cutter actually shaves these away, for the most part, so that
there will not later be stress cracks spidering out from the hole. Even
though they are small, and you probably couldn't see them without a
magnifying glass, they are there, and you should do whatever you can to
alleviate them.
You shouldn't have to "push" or tap or otherwise force a rivet into the
hole. It should slide in easily or "drop right in" from above. The hole
you drill and dimple really is not "oversize", because the first
half-dozen blows of the rivet gun cause the shank to compress along its
length, and "fatten" outwards to grip the edge of the hole, immobilizing
the rivet, without making minute tears or fissures around the hole
because the rivet shaft was already too tight against the edge of the
hole. I absolutely cannot imagine setting rivets in holes that are
underdrilled, nor can I fathom why anyone would set a rivet in a
non-deburred hole, when so much collective wisdom over the years
dictates otherwise. The constant airloads, vibration, and stress forces
over time will result in a "do it over again" job, with loose rivets,
wrinkled skin, and additional rivets inserted where you have had to
"stop-drill" the aforementioned spider cracks, tears, etc.
The textbook process works great, provides strength and safety, and
lasts for years. Yeah, it takes a lot of time to do it this way, but
that is why you can have a 200 mph, economical, great-flying airplane
for a quarter of the cost of a new spam can, and half the cost of a used
one. You provide the time and the labor---and it is definitely
labor-intensive. The process works great. If it ain't broke, don't fix
it. Follow the instructions.
John Williams
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tasker
Subject: RV9-List: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder
introduction)
I am currently finishing up my RV9 empennage kit and expect to get the
wing kit in a few weeks.
I have noticed while building the empennage that the pre-punched holes
always line up so all you are really seem to be doing is just enlarging
the holes with the "match" drilling. Furthermore, when you dimple the
drilled hole, the resulting hole is actually a little oversize for the
rivet (per standard rivet specifications). Dimpling the existing holes
would actually create a better fit to the rivet.
I would like to solicit opinions as to the procedure noted below. That
is, what are the advantages and drawbacks of following the instructions
to drill then dimple vs just dimple as is. Of course, it goes without
saying that your dimple tool should fit into the existing holes before
dimpling (which might require slight grinding of the dimple tool pilot
shaft).
Dick Tasker, 90573
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
>Hey Steve, welcome to the list. You may or may not know but many
builders of
>the pre-punched kits are skipping the step of putting the parts
together and
>then opening up the 3/32" holes with a #40 drill. They first dimple the
>individual parts (which opens up the holes slightly) and then clecoe it
up
>and set the rivets. I know of several guys who built wings without
even
>thinking about twist while building. After the skins were riveted on
they
>checked and found out there was zero twist. In any case you are going
to
>have fun.
>Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
>RV-9A: N872RV
>(After 2 years I can see the end from here.)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "RV9" <rv9(at)charter.net>
>To:
>Subject: RV9-List: New Builder introduction
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>My name is Steve Mottin and I'm the proud owner of RV-9 empennage kit
>>number 609 which I received on the 10th of October. I've finished all
>>of the prep work on the HS and I'm awaiting better weather here in
>>North Texas (Granbury) before priming my HS parts. I've also begun
work
>>on the VS.
>>
>>I have a very crude (in comparison to some of you guys) website that's
>>intended to allow my non-builder friends and relatives to track my
>>progress. You are, of course, welcome to visit. Comments, suggestions,
>>motiviations, etc. are all welcome.
>>
>>http://webpages.charter.net/smottin
>>
>>Steve Mottin
>>RV-9A Empennage
>>Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9(at)charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder introduction |
...and many builders are adhering to proper practices of aircraft construction
rather than cutting corners!
Welcome Steve! You'll find lots of opinions, free advice, good debate, and
comradery, 24x7, at no cost.
And when you've been around long enough to pass your wisdom along, you'll find
a
beautiful RV9 in your
hangar! Gotta love it...
Gary N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder introduction) |
"Standard Aircraft Handbook, Sixth Edition" (...should be on everyone's coffee
table)
Page 77, "Although drilling holes seems a simple task, it requires a great deal
of knowledge and skill to do it properly and in accordance with specifications.
It is one of the most important operations performed by riveters or
mechanics...."
"Preparing holes to specifications requires more than just running a drill
through a piece of metal..."
Page 92, "Coin dimpling [i.e. dimple-dies] does not bend or stretch the
material, as did the now-obsolete radius dimpling system, and the dimple
definition is almost as sharp as that of a machine countersink."
Page 94, "Preparation of holes for form countersinking ["form countersinking" is
another term for dimpling] is of great importance because improperly drilled
holes result in defective dimples. Holes for solid-shank rivets must be size
drilled, before dimpling, by using the size drills recommended for regular
holes. .... Do not burr holes to be form countersunk, except on titanium."
[general procedures list]
1. Fit skin in place on substructure.
2. Pilot drill to proper size for dimpling: final size for conventional rivets;
predrill size for all other rivets [size-drilled after dimpling].
...
[my comments]
There are several problems with just ramming the dimple die through the predrill
holes. First, there is no arguing that you are stretching the metal when you
force the die pilot through a hole which is smaller than the die pilot. See
comment above ref Page 92. On a scale smaller than you'll see with you naked
eye, you have stretched the metal around the perimeter of the rivet hole. This
can lead to stress cracking around the rivets over time. It also has the
effect of slightly thinning the metal in this critical area.
Next, the proper drill size for standard rivets is considered in the design of
the dimple die. Thus, you start with the specified "final" drill size, then the
dimple die opens it to the expected size. If you omit this step, you are
starting with the predrill size, stretching it to something less than specified.
See general procedures step 2 above. This is OK for "other" types of rivets
because you post-drill to final size for these softer types of rivets.
Next, and arguably the most important reason for match-drilling ALL the holes,
despite the wonderful advancement of punch machining, there are inevitable
variations in fit which are introduced by bending, forming, painting,
temperature effects, and simple positional errors which can accumulate as you
walk down a row of rivets during the dimpling and riveting process. If you were
to stack two or three layers of pre-punched holes on top of each other as you
would before riveting, then closely observe each hole with a magnifying glass,
you would see slight variations in alignment, especially evident when the sheets
are following a curved surface. While you may still be able to press a rivet
into these misaligned holes, as you drive the rivets, the individual misaligned
sheets can create scores in the shank of the rivets, leading to undue stresses
and potential rivet failure under loads. If you follow proper procedures and
match-drill these holes, you would see a much cleaner set of holes in perfect
alignment.
Keep in mind that all aircraft are flexible. Wings bow up and down several
inches across their span and fuselage panels visibly shake (especially you
Lycosaur fliers ;
). Look out across the top surface of a wing when flying and
you'll see visible wrinkles in the skins. What is taking up the stress when a
wing surface bows upward by lift and downward by weight? The rivets! And if
these rivets were installed in improperly stretched and thinned holes which were
misaligned then fastened with rivets which were scored during assembly. Do you
really think they will be as strong as "specification"? NOT...
That said.... Yep, these corners have been cut, and these not-built-to-spec
planes are not exactly falling out of the sky (or are they?). This is probably
just a matter of over-engineering covering up for poor construction practices.
Perhaps if you re-examine one of these birds after several years of turbulent
flying, you would see rivet heads popping through the paint job or stress
cracks. Either way, why would you knowingly bypass time-proven practices?
Simply put... ITS A FLYING MACHINE, BUILD IT WRIGHT!!!!!!!! Cut corners when
mowing your lawn, not building your plane.
Hey, you asked.......
Gary N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [RV-9A] cleco's |
Browns sells Kwik-Loc brand. Vans sells Wedge-Loc which break too easy. Your
numbers confirm this quite well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <jleclercq(at)charter.net> |
I have recently recieved both "kwik-loc" and "cleco-loc from Brown.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder |
introduction)
Can someone get a piece of rib (like we all have these laying around) or
some scrap and do 5 the right way and 5 the 'wrong' way and then drill two
of each out and tell us what they find? Also put a couple drilled and
dimpled and a couple dimpled but not drilled with no rivet inside it to
check for problems before the rivet even goes in. Be careful when you drill
so you don't damage the hole and obscure the evidence. If nobody has the
equipment you can send it to me and I'll take it over to one of our science
depts and check it under a high power microscope and post the results.
Pictures too, probably.
I see a lot of speculating and reasoning but I like to see tests. Many
times the thing that we reason to be true turns out to not be the case.
Marcus Ward
New to list.
No airplane.
No kit.
Working on license.
Lots of dreams.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Williams" <frate.dawg(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder |
introduction)
Marcus: While I commend your intellectual curiosity and willingness to
do a research project, understand that you are only re-inventing the
wheel once again. All of this research was done in the '30s and early
'40s by people who discovered how to build airplanes out of metal (tin
or aluminum). The current process is the result of thousands of hours
of research and trial and error, to find out what works, what doesn't,
and what works BEST. It was accomplished by the likes of Howard Hughes,
William Boeing, Jack Northrup, Glenn L. Martin, the Ryans, Donald
Douglas, et al, and the information was shared throughout the industry.
Rosie (the Riveter) knew it, too. She got exactly one hour of
instruction before going on the "line" to rivet wing skins. The girls
who formed the exquisite belly scoops and inlets on the P-51s got a
whole six hours of instruction on how to form the compound curves in
those assemblies, prepare them for riveting, and then finish the job.
Take a close look at one, sometime. It's a work of art, made by a GIRL,
with less than one day's training!
The point is, the accepted process works, and works great! The end
products are world-renowned for strength, durability, and longevity in
often extremely hostile environments. The stories of airplanes returning
from missions with unbelievable battle damage are legion; numerous
airplanes returning without major portions of wings, missing engines,
fire burn-throughs, missing large parts of their empennages, and in one
case, the entire tail. Grummans returning to their carriers after
murderous pounding by as many as eight enemy figters at one time, so
shot up they were "totaled" and pushed over the side.
The process, though labor-intensive, even lends itself to assembly line
production, which is why every 54 minutes, a brand new B-24 Liberator
rolled out at GM's Ypsilanti plant, was fueled, and was flown away by
ferry pilots within 30 minutes to an hour to begin a very hard life. The
scene was repeated 24 hours a day at dozens of plants all over America.
Again, the process works, has been thoroughly experimented with, and
deemed to be the best system yet devised for building good, strong,
lightweight aluminum airplanes. I suspect that the designers of
airplanes also count on the manufacturers of airplanes to use this
process for assembly in order to achieve the strength that they are
designing into the airframe, and to not compromise this strength by
cutting corners in the fabrication process.
So, have at it. You are to be commended. Just be sure to share your
findings with the rest of us, as the founding fathers and heros of this
industry did so graciously, so many years ago. Good luck, John
Williams
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Ward
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RV9-List: Drill and dimple vs just dimple
(was:New Builder introduction)
Can someone get a piece of rib (like we all have these laying around) or
some scrap and do 5 the right way and 5 the 'wrong' way and then drill
two
of each out and tell us what they find? Also put a couple drilled and
dimpled and a couple dimpled but not drilled with no rivet inside it to
check for problems before the rivet even goes in. Be careful when you
drill
so you don't damage the hole and obscure the evidence. If nobody has
the
equipment you can send it to me and I'll take it over to one of our
science
depts and check it under a high power microscope and post the results.
Pictures too, probably.
I see a lot of speculating and reasoning but I like to see tests. Many
times the thing that we reason to be true turns out to not be the case.
Marcus Ward
New to list.
No airplane.
No kit.
Working on license.
Lots of dreams.
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [RV-9A] cleco's |
I agree. I purchased Wedge-Locs because someone had loaned me some very
old Wedge-Locs and they were great. The new ones are trash. I'd say 20% of
my new Wedge-Locs broke.
Chuck
> Browns sells Kwik-Loc brand. Vans sells Wedge-Loc which break too easy.
Your
> numbers confirm this quite well.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Drill and dimple vs just dimple (was:New Builder |
introduction)
Well put. Having personally earned my ticket working at the Willow Run
bomber plant, side by side with some of the best metalsmiths in the world,
I take their advice and techniques seriously. No need for me to second
guess their wisdom...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
| Subject: | Match drilling etc. |
"Gary" | Date: | Oct 25, 2002 |
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Match drilling etc. |
Finally some common sense in the answer and approach! This is basically
my thoughts and why I asked the question in the first place. Thanks.
Dick Tasker, 90573
Rob W M Shipley wrote:
>
>"Gary" Why do you guys want to second-guess the experts in sheet metal aircraft construction,
and the tool and die makers? Van's has made itself clear on this point
in the manual. The proceedures and fit are the way they are for good reasons,
which have been discussed (beat to death) on the list. Check the archives.
>If it is too much work for you to match drill, I dont see how you will get very
far in the construction of an RV.
>There was another long thread on the RV list about skipping deburring. It amazes
me. Why not just do it right? It is not difficult.
>
>This is a little simplistic and follows the just do it this way and it'll be allright
philosophy. It's true that planes have been built this way for a very
long time and the results are inarguably satisfactory. A little research, however
will tell you that mil spec requirements do not allow more than .003 oversize
for the hole to be riveted. A little more checking will show that the method
suggested by Vans (and others) gives a hole with about .008 to .012 oversize
depending upon the gauge of metal used.
>I am well aware that many builders and indeed I believe that Vans also have tried
the dimple without drilling approach. Vans will not approve this since an
adequate period of time hasn't passed since this practice has become common practice.
In other words the long term results aren't known.
>Since no one makes a dimple die in #41 or perhaps #42 the enlargement of the hole
beyond the mil spec recommendation has to continue. A compromise that I have
used is to match drill with a #41 drill this will reduce the slop to .005
- .008.
>Two further points. 1) I was led to understand that one of the purposes of match
drilling was to stress relieve the hole after punching. Close examination
of the hole with a high power lens after drilling might give cause for more thought
regarding this. 2) The rivet will expand to fill the hole so some degree
of slop will be taken care of. No need to be too anal!
>I suspect without any proof that simply deburring and dimpling the thin parts
is OK. (This is not an endorsement of the practice. You decide). I am fairly
sure, again without proof that using a #41 drill for the match drilling will
get you closer to mil spec. (This is not an endorsement of the practice. You
decide). Further if you do it the recommended way even if this isn't mil spec
it's going to work.
>Do some tests. Talk to everyone you can. Make your own evaluation
>I wish lots of luck with your project. Try and do something each day and you
WILL FINISH AND HAVE YOUR OWN PLANE.
>Fly safe.
>Rob
>Rob W M Shipley.
>RV9A fuselage. N919RV resvd.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | riveting discussion |
Guys-
As I was reading through yet another day's worth of discussion on drilling or
not drilling for rivets, it occurred to me yet again how much I LOVE this
list!
Thank You, Matt Dralle, for providing a discussion group for all of us
geniuses and knotheads with our competing knot-headed and brilliant ideas and
theories to air these things out together!
This has been the best, and the best-mannered, thread on the list in a while!
Keep going group! I know we'll NEVER agree, but we sure will air it out!
Ed (nobody's daisy!) Winne
RV9A
Hershey PA
________________________________________________________________________________
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com,
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) |
Hey RV Listers,
Okay, so I really don't mean to drag this out, but unbelievably, we have a
dead heat between "Forward" votes and "Don't Forward" votes! I had no idea
the opinion would run so close!! I've gotten a little over 100 votes so
far and it is literally a 50/50 split to the vote on which way to go. Over
the last week or so, each day I've gotten a couple of votes to Forward,
then a couple of votes to Not Forward - back and forth. With this many
people on both sides of the fence, no matter which way wins, there's gonna
be a lot of disappointed people! And I thought this vote would make it
easy for me to decide...
I'm going to keep the polls open until Sunday afternoon at 5pm pst, and
just go with the method that has the most votes - even if its just 1 or 2
votes. This is just like the Bush/Gore election; I'm down to counting
chad... You guys from Florida get your votes in! :-)
Here's how to vote - follow closely to make it easiest for me to count:
-- To Vote FORWARD --
* This means that you would like to have any messages posted to the
RV-specific lists automatically forwarded to the main RV-List.
Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com
Make the SUBJECT line: "Forward"
-- To Vote DON'T FORWARD --
* This means that you don't want messages posted to the RV-specific lists
automatically forwarded to the main RV-List.
Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com
Make the SUBJECT line: "Don't Forward"
If you care, here's your chance to make a difference! Get your vote in
before Sunday at 5pm pst. I'll announce the winner Sunday night...
Hey - and there's only voting one time, you guys! You know who you are... :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
==============================================================================
Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY
close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close
that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only vote
once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address will
not be counted.
Matt
At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow"
>
>Matt,
>
>You're doing a great job managing this.
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
> >
> >
> > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its
> > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists
> > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the
> > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added
> > them later and forgot that about the forwarding.
> >
> > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to
>keep
> > everything consistant.
> >
> > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can
> > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding
> > operation? Sounds like it they might...
> >
> > So let's vote! Drop me an email at:
> >
> > dralle(at)matronics.com
> >
> > with a simple:
> >
> > "Forward"
> > or
> > "Don't Forward"
> >
> > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and
> > announce the new method.
> >
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > List Admin.
> >
> >
> > >--------------
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >
> > >Gary,
> > >
> > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's
> > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get
> > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes
> > >across on the main RV-list.
> > >
> > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the
> > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the
> > >main RV-List.
> > >
> > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto
> > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find
> > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes
> > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't
> > >understand that they need study the original message to see where it
> > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct
> > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But,
> > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists.
> > >
> > >Kevin
> > >
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary"
> > >>
> > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics
> > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any
> > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to
> > >>the ones you want it to show up on.
> > >>
> > >>Gary
> > >>
> > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes
> > >>
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >>
> > >>Steve,
> > >>
> > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific
> > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy
> > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV
> > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list, ...............
> > >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Torx Head Screws |
Back in July I bought 500 Torx 100 degree, flat head, T-20 screws from
MicroFastners. These were manufactured at the request of RV-listers. I'm
very happy with them, however tests by another list member showed that due
to the superior grip of the drive it was possible to over torque the screw
until the head snapped off. I don't feel this to be an issue as his same
tests showed them to also be of superior strength to the Phillips screws. A
little common sense when installing these, precludes any chance of over
torquing them.
However, John Fleischer of Micro Fasteners has automatically sent 500
replacement screws with the smaller T-15 head. He has verified that it is
not possible to torque this smaller drive to failure. While I didn't feel
that it was necessary, I was quite pleased to find these in my mailbox this
afternoon. As before, I feel that they look real sharp and will make future
maintenance much easier (no more fussing with them #?!@??!!#! Phillips).
Since I have them I will use the new T-15's in all structural applications,
but will use the T-20's for non-structural applications.
I'd just like to recommend Micro Fasteners to anybody who is considering
upgrading their screws. Customer service like this deserves our support.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) |
I vote Not to forward. I belong to both lists as well and don't like the
double messages...
Bob Hassel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
rv6-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com;
rv9-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV9-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
Hey RV Listers,
Okay, so I really don't mean to drag this out, but unbelievably, we have a
dead heat between "Forward" votes and "Don't Forward" votes! I had no idea
the opinion would run so close!! I've gotten a little over 100 votes so
far and it is literally a 50/50 split to the vote on which way to go. Over
the last week or so, each day I've gotten a couple of votes to Forward,
then a couple of votes to Not Forward - back and forth. With this many
people on both sides of the fence, no matter which way wins, there's gonna
be a lot of disappointed people! And I thought this vote would make it
easy for me to decide...
I'm going to keep the polls open until Sunday afternoon at 5pm pst, and
just go with the method that has the most votes - even if its just 1 or 2
votes. This is just like the Bush/Gore election; I'm down to counting
chad... You guys from Florida get your votes in! :-)
Here's how to vote - follow closely to make it easiest for me to count:
-- To Vote FORWARD --
* This means that you would like to have any messages posted to the
RV-specific lists automatically forwarded to the main RV-List.
Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com
Make the SUBJECT line: "Forward"
-- To Vote DON'T FORWARD --
* This means that you don't want messages posted to the RV-specific lists
automatically forwarded to the main RV-List.
Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com
Make the SUBJECT line: "Don't Forward"
If you care, here's your chance to make a difference! Get your vote in
before Sunday at 5pm pst. I'll announce the winner Sunday night...
Hey - and there's only voting one time, you guys! You know who you are...
:-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
============================================================================
==
Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY
close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close
that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only vote
once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address will
not be counted.
Matt
At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow"
>
>Matt,
>
>You're doing a great job managing this.
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
> >
> >
> > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its
> > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists
> > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the
> > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added
> > them later and forgot that about the forwarding.
> >
> > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to
>keep
> > everything consistant.
> >
> > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can
> > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding
> > operation? Sounds like it they might...
> >
> > So let's vote! Drop me an email at:
> >
> > dralle(at)matronics.com
> >
> > with a simple:
> >
> > "Forward"
> > or
> > "Don't Forward"
> >
> > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and
> > announce the new method.
> >
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > List Admin.
> >
> >
> > >--------------
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >
> > >Gary,
> > >
> > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's
> > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get
> > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes
> > >across on the main RV-list.
> > >
> > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the
> > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the
> > >main RV-List.
> > >
> > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto
> > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find
> > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes
> > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't
> > >understand that they need study the original message to see where it
> > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct
> > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But,
> > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists.
> > >
> > >Kevin
> > >
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary"
> > >>
> > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics
> > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any
> > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to
> > >>the ones you want it to show up on.
> > >>
> > >>Gary
> > >>
> > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes
> > >>
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >>
> > >>Steve,
> > >>
> > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific
> > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy
> > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV
> > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list,
...............
> > >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Match drilling etc. |
> Finally some common sense in the answer and approach!
Common Sense? Or just someone else who leans your way?
It seems to me, that the "standard" falls on the side of common sense and
shortcutting it does not.
If you want to experiment with different drill bit sizes with the intent of
adhering to the precise mil-spec standard that's admirable, but ramming a die
through a too-small hole and skipping drilling entirely is not sensible in any
sense of the word.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
| Subject: | Torx head screws |
From: "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Torx Head Screws
What is the contact info for the manufacturer?
Don Piermattei
90411 N192DP
Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
5000 E County Rd 92
Carr, CO 80612
970/568-9047
Fax 970/568-7279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Torx head screws |
>
> What is the contact info for the manufacturer?
> Don Piermattei
> 90411 N192DP
>
>
Hi Don;
You can go direct to them and buy at;
http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSCFCMXS.cfm
FCMXS0408 100 4-40 x 1/2 $ 8.50
FCMXS0810 100 8-32 x 5/8 $ 14.50
FCMXS1112 100 10-32 x 3/4 $ 15.80
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: [RV-9A] cleco's |
> I knew I was saving these little buggers for a reason ! Of my broken
Clecos : 8 were Cleco brand
> 22 were Kwik Lok, and 104 were Wedge Lock. I know I got some from ATS
while at Oshkosh in '99 and some from Vans'. What brand does Brown Tool Co.
sell Gary ? I will order the next ones from them.
I've got at around 400 clecos as I built both wings at the same time. All
are from Avery and not one is broken.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Finishing kit and beyond
________________________________________________________________________________
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com,
rv10-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) (The Final VOTE!) |
Dear RV Listers,
Okay, its after 5pm pst on Sunday and as promised, I've closed the
polls. I've counted the votes and recounted the votes, and even double
checked all of the Chad and the totals keep coming up the same. Are you
ready for this spread? Here is the official vote count:
95 votes: Forward
96 votes: Don't Forward
Unbelievable, I know. The totals ran within 1 to 2 votes of each other the
entire voting period. I couldn't believe it either. How could the split
be so close? Perhaps I should have turned to the Electoral College for
assistance... Or maybe Florida... :-) Much to Gore's delight, the popular
vote really did count!
So, the people have spoken and as of 5:19pm pst I have disabled the auto
forwarding from the RV-specific Lists to the main RV-List. As I mentioned
earlier, I really was on the fence about the right way, so thanks to
everyone for helping with the decision!
Isn't democracy great!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Hey RV Listers,
Okay, so I really don't mean to drag this out, but unbelievably, we have a
dead heat between "Forward" votes and "Don't Forward" votes! I had no idea
the opinion would run so close!! I've gotten a little over 100 votes so
far and it is literally a 50/50 split to the vote on which way to go. Over
the last week or so, each day I've gotten a couple of votes to Forward,
then a couple of votes to Not Forward - back and forth. With this many
people on both sides of the fence, no matter which way wins, there's gonna
be a lot of disappointed people! And I thought this vote would make it
easy for me to decide...
I'm going to keep the polls open until Sunday afternoon at 5pm pst, and
just go with the method that has the most votes - even if its just 1 or 2
votes. This is just like the Bush/Gore election; I'm down to counting
chad... You guys from Florida get your votes in! :-)
Here's how to vote - follow closely to make it easiest for me to count:
-- To Vote FORWARD --
* This means that you would like to have any messages posted to the
RV-specific lists automatically forwarded to the main RV-List.
Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com
Make the SUBJECT line: "Forward"
-- To Vote DON'T FORWARD --
* This means that you don't want messages posted to the RV-specific lists
automatically forwarded to the main RV-List.
Send an email message to: dralle(at)matronics.com
Make the SUBJECT line: "Don't Forward"
If you care, here's your chance to make a difference! Get your vote in
before Sunday at 5pm pst. I'll announce the winner Sunday night...
Hey - and there's only voting one time, you guys! You know who you are... :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
==============================================================================
Thanks Scott! The votes are still trickling in and its a REALLY, REALLY
close race. If you have a preference and haven't yet voted, it so close
that one or two votes could actually make the difference. PLEASE only vote
once, though! To be fair, multiple votes from the same email address will
not be counted.
Matt
At 07:07 AM 10/19/2002 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Sudlow"
>
>Matt,
>
>You're doing a great job managing this.
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...)
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
> >
> >
> > Kevin's right, except for the RV7, RV9, and RV10 Lists. The way its
> > been set up is when someone posts to the RV3, RV4, RV6, and RV8 Lists
> > a copy is automatically sent to the RV-List too. For some reason, the
> > 7/9/10 lists weren't configured that way; probably because I added
> > them later and forgot that about the forwarding.
> >
> > In anycase, for now I've added the forward feature the 7/9/10 Lists to
>keep
> > everything consistant.
> >
> > However, I don't have a stong preference either way, actually. I can
> > see pros and cons to each. Would people prefer the not-forwarding
> > operation? Sounds like it they might...
> >
> > So let's vote! Drop me an email at:
> >
> > dralle(at)matronics.com
> >
> > with a simple:
> >
> > "Forward"
> > or
> > "Don't Forward"
> >
> > in the Subject Line. I'll added up the votes in a couple of days and
> > announce the new method.
> >
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > List Admin.
> >
> >
> > >--------------
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >
> > >Gary,
> > >
> > >Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree here. I am a member of Matt's
> > >RV8-list and the RV-list. If I post a message to the RV8-list, I get
> > >two copies - one that comes from the RV8-list, and a copy that comes
> > >across on the main RV-list.
> > >
> > >I just checked my Out Box - my message to Steve was sent to the
> > >RV4-List only. The copy you replied too seems to have come from the
> > >main RV-List.
> > >
> > >Search the RV-List archives for the text " New Specific RV Lists Auto
> > >Forwarded to RV-List" (don't include the quote marks. You'll find
> > >Matt's description of how the system works. I believe it causes
> > >confusion, because a lot of people on the main RV-List don't
> > >understand that they need study the original message to see where it
> > >originated, and send their response to the message to the correct
> > >list. Otherwise, the original poster may not see the response. But,
> > >Matt likes it the way it is, and these are his lists.
> > >
> > >Kevin
> > >
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary"
> > >>
> > >>Kevin.....actually, messages posted to model-specific Matronics
> > >>lists do not automatically post to the RV list. You can post to any
> > >>list or combination of lists you like, but you have to send it to
> > >>the ones you want it to show up on.
> > >>
> > >>Gary
> > >>
> > >>From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Bleeding Brakes
> > >>
> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> > >>
> > >>Steve,
> > >>
> > >>.................. Any message posted to one of the RV model specific
> > >>list also gets posted to the main RV List. Any responses to the copy
> > >>of the message that goes to the main RV List only go to the main RV
> > >>List - they don't go back to the RV model specific list, ...............
> > >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <jleclercq(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: posting (To Forward or Not to Forward...) (The Final |
VOTE!)
>
>
> 95 votes: Forward
> 96 votes: Don't Forward
>
> Unbelievable, I know. The totals ran within 1 to 2 votes of each other the
>
> Isn't democracy great!
>
Matt,
I demand a recall or revote, well maybe not demand but .....................
oh what the heck, we got Bush and we got don't forward, not my day!
Thanks for the list anyway
John LeClercq
RV-9 Conventional Gear (little wheel in back)
Tailfeathers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Servo Assembly |
I am currently working on my elevator trim tab servo assembly (RV9A -
90573).
1. The drawing says to mount the servo to EET-602B with the supplied
hardware - there was no mounting hardware in my servo box. Is this the
normal state of affairs?
2. The brackets (EET-602B) seem to be a little too shallow. That is,
when they are riveted onto the E-616PP trim cover plate, the aft
attachment rivets interfere with the servo housing. Is this normal? Do
I have the correct brackets for the T3-12A servo? If so, it seems to me
there are two solutions: Make new brackets or add a 0.062 spacer to
increase the depth of the bracket. Obviously, the spacer is the easier
of the two. Is there any particular drawback to this approach?
Thanks,
Dick Tasker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Servo Assembly |
Dick,
The hardware is not in the servo box. It came in a seperate bag. I am almost
at this same point and when I get home today I will take a look and let you
know what I find.
Robert Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Elevator Trim Servo Assembly
>
> I am currently working on my elevator trim tab servo assembly (RV9A -
> 90573).
>
> 1. The drawing says to mount the servo to EET-602B with the supplied
> hardware - there was no mounting hardware in my servo box. Is this the
> normal state of affairs?
>
> 2. The brackets (EET-602B) seem to be a little too shallow. That is,
> when they are riveted onto the E-616PP trim cover plate, the aft
> attachment rivets interfere with the servo housing. Is this normal? Do
> I have the correct brackets for the T3-12A servo? If so, it seems to me
> there are two solutions: Make new brackets or add a 0.062 spacer to
> increase the depth of the bracket. Obviously, the spacer is the easier
> of the two. Is there any particular drawback to this approach?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick Tasker
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | federigo(at)pacbell.net |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Servo Assembly |
Dick, take a look at Gary's site for an excellent set of mounting photographs that
show the kind of detail a poor set of drawings do not:
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/servo.htm
Leland in P-Town, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Servo Assembly |
Looks just like mine (different color paint). The problem is not the
drawing. It seems to be clear to me. It is the fact that my brackets
(supplied in the kit) seem to be too shallow - the aft rivets interfere
with the servo housing. It is possible that all the ones I have seen on
the web are user fabricated brackets and are made deep enough to clear
the housing. The plans show two rivets per bracket but the kit supplied
brackets have three. This puts the aft rivets close to the end of
brackets and causes the interference.
Dick, 90573
federigo(at)pacbell.net wrote:
>
>Dick, take a look at Gary's site for an excellent set of mounting photographs
that
>show the kind of detail a poor set of drawings do not:
>http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/servo.htm
>
>Leland in P-Town, California
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | federigo(at)pacbell.net |
| Subject: | Sliding Canopy Print Problems |
There are some minor print and instruction problems in the newest
version of the canopy prints, which are detailed below.
Drawing 41, zone B9, C-660 Canopy Skirt: The drawing calls out 22 holes
with a spacing of 1 15/32 inches. This puts the next-to-last hole(s)
exactly over the end-corner of the canopy rail(s).
Drawing 41, zone D4 shows 4 holes in the bottom of the C-660 Side Skirt
but only the last 3 are used to rivet the C-666 Aft Skirt. (Gus thinks
it is better to drill those in assembly rather than pre-drill C-660 and
back drill.)
The assembly instructions under "FITTING THE SIDE SKINS" say "lining up
the forward and top edges of the two parts", but should probably say
"lining up the aft and top edges of the two parts". This is for
attaching C-759 (Inside Canopy Skirt) to the C-660 (Canopy side Skirt).
The correct orientation of these parts is shown in Detail E on Drawing
43.
Leland in Pleasanton
Broke off two pieces from the canopy corners but no cracks yet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding Canopy Print Problems |
10/28/2002 06:39:08 PM,
Serialize complete at 10/28/2002 06:39:08 PM
Leland,
Check the latest RVAtor magazine. There is an extensive article on the
slider canopy.
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Servo Assembly |
Thanks for the hint to jog my brain. I resurveyed all the drawers I
labeled with the parts when I received them and discovered that I did,
indeed, receive the aforementioned mounting hardware.
I got confused because, evidently, the empennage kit does come with a
set of nutplates and 6-32 screws for the trim plate. And... When you
order the electric trim tab, you get a set of hardware that includes an
additional set of nutplates and 6-32 screws (for who knows what reason)
AND the mounting screws. I was looking in the drawer with the nutplates
and screws and overlooking the drawer with the nutplates, screws and
mounting screws.nuts.
Oh well...
Of course, this does not solve the "shallow" bracket problem. Van's
answered my email with the comment that "a spacer bracket would be
easier" - tacitly admitting the fact that the brasket is undersized.
Dick, 90573
robert wrote:
>
>Dick,
>
>The hardware is not in the servo box. It came in a seperate bag. I am almost
>at this same point and when I get home today I will take a look and let you
>know what I find.
>
>Robert Scott
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
>To:
>Subject: RV9-List: Elevator Trim Servo Assembly
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>I am currently working on my elevator trim tab servo assembly (RV9A -
>>90573).
>>
>>1. The drawing says to mount the servo to EET-602B with the supplied
>>hardware - there was no mounting hardware in my servo box. Is this the
>>normal state of affairs?
>>
>>2. The brackets (EET-602B) seem to be a little too shallow. That is,
>>when they are riveted onto the E-616PP trim cover plate, the aft
>>attachment rivets interfere with the servo housing. Is this normal? Do
>>I have the correct brackets for the T3-12A servo? If so, it seems to me
>>there are two solutions: Make new brackets or add a 0.062 spacer to
>>increase the depth of the bracket. Obviously, the spacer is the easier
>>of the two. Is there any particular drawback to this approach?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dick Tasker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | AOA Installation |
Was wondering if anyone has installed the Proprietary Software Angle of Attach
unit in a -9 yet, and if so, if you have the dimensions for where you located
the ports. I am about ready to install the unit ( I was a little optimistic when
I bought it at Oshkosh 2001) and thought I'd see where others have installed
it.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder trailing edge installation |
I am getting ready to install the trailing edge wedge in the rudder.
Everything is riveted except the trailing edge and a few rivets near
the trailing edge per the instructions.
If I cleco it all together (everything was match-drilled, the skin is
dimpled and the wedge is countersunk) I end up with slight "oil canning"
of the skins. That is, if I press on one section between stiffeners the
adjacent section pops out a little. I say "oil canning" but the section
that pops out only stays out as long as pressure is applied to the
adjacent section - so I guess it is not true oil canning where there are
two stable states. There are two or three sections like this on each
side. The trailing edge is straight as an arrow so that is not a
problem. I suspect that this is just life and is probably impossible to
totally eliminate since the rudder sides are flat (rather than all other
control surfaces that have some curve in them).
In any case, is this a problem? If so, what can I do about it?
Thanks,
Dick. 90573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Rounds <wrounds(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge installation |
Richard
The four flying nines I've seen all had oilcanning rudders including
vans rv9a demo. My 9A rudder Oil cans as well. Seems to be very
common. Would suggest finishing rudder and move on. If it is a problem
after test flying you could carefuly shoot a little foam into the rudder
to stop it.
Bill Rounds
RV9-A N159RV
Richard E. Tasker wrote:
>
>I am getting ready to install the trailing edge wedge in the rudder.
> Everything is riveted except the trailing edge and a few rivets near
>the trailing edge per the instructions.
>
>If I cleco it all together (everything was match-drilled, the skin is
>dimpled and the wedge is countersunk) I end up with slight "oil canning"
>of the skins. That is, if I press on one section between stiffeners the
>adjacent section pops out a little. I say "oil canning" but the section
>that pops out only stays out as long as pressure is applied to the
>adjacent section - so I guess it is not true oil canning where there are
>two stable states. There are two or three sections like this on each
>side. The trailing edge is straight as an arrow so that is not a
>problem. I suspect that this is just life and is probably impossible to
>totally eliminate since the rudder sides are flat (rather than all other
>control surfaces that have some curve in them).
>
>In any case, is this a problem? If so, what can I do about it?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dick. 90573
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Cruikshank <cruikshank(at)attbi.com> |
Dick,
Your problem will probably mostly disappear when you
complete the riveting.
At the suggestion of -9 builder Helmut Jakel. I use a
steel bar (I think it is cold rolled, it has a pretty
decent finish.) .375" thick by 2" wide by 90" long
(Long enough for the flaps) as a trailing edge bucking
bar. All the trailing edge rivets are installed and
taped in with the backriveting tape. On the ailerons I
used several pieces of .5" Scotch tape to hold things
together while it is turned over. The control surface
is weighted down to hold it straight. This allows
setting all the rivets without moving the surface. It
also helps to use a small diameter flush set to avoid
scaring the surface of the skin when starting the rivet
setting. Follow their instructions on setting the
rivets a little at a time and 8 to 10" apart. On the
ailerons it took about 3 trips over all the rivets to
get them close. I then turned the surface over and
gave each manufactured head a couple taps to smooth
them up, on all but the rudder they are on top and the
ones you see.
One RV-7 has already borrowed the bar to do his rudder.
Good luck.
Bruce 90364
________________________________________________________________________________
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com,
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | How To Wire a "Dual-Rate" Electric Trim System... |
Hi Listers,
I've recently received a number of requests from builders regarding how to
wire up a "dual-rate" system for their electric trim installation. The
concept is that in cruse configuration the trim speed would be slow and
during flaps down configuration the trim speed would be fast.
I've draw up a schematic diagram that shows how to accomplish this using
two Matronics Governor MkIII units, a 12v relay, and an extra switch.
With the flaps up, the "fast" Governor MkIII is switched in, and when the
flaps are down, the "slow" Governor MkIII is switched in. I would
recommend using the highest quality, sealed relay available for this
installation.
Here is the Dual-Rate PDF document:
http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII/DualRate-GovernorMkIII-Installation.pdf
and here is the Governor MkIII website:
http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII
If you have any questions on the wiring diagram, feel free to email me
directly at: dralle(at)matronics.com
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge installation |
Dick,
Make sure your rudder is flat before riveting the T/E. I use a 1 X 12 flat
board on top of the the surface weighted down with lead shot. The plan
calls for 3.5 rivets, I used 3's as the longer rivet wanted to hook over.
(the flaps and ailerons call for 3's). Don't try to run the rivet down all
the way from the shop side, set it about half way then flip it over and
finish with a flat set. You should get a straight trailing edge and minimal
" oil canning".
Gene N557RV (res.) waiting on fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Cruikshank <cruikshank(at)attbi.com> |
Dick,
I think Helmut Jakel used a large piece of 1/8" plate
for his "bucking bar" that he just happened to have on
hand, on I think others on this list have used angle
iron which is nice and straight but also pretty ruff.
Bruce 90364
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | johncclarkva(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Rudder trailing edge installation |
Just remember that the rudder sides are not flat, that there is a slight twist.
If you push the TE flat to the table, you may introduce oil canning. Follow
the instructions to hold the spar and let the TE float. I have had good luck
using the pneumatic rivet squeezer for setting the TE rivets. Good luck. John.
"Richard E. Tasker" wrote:
>
>I am getting ready to install the trailing edge wedge in the rudder.
> Everything is riveted except the trailing edge and a few rivets near
>the trailing edge per the instructions.
>
>If I cleco it all together (everything was match-drilled, the skin is
>dimpled and the wedge is countersunk) I end up with slight "oil canning"
>of the skins. That is, if I press on one section between stiffeners the
>adjacent section pops out a little. I say "oil canning" but the section
>that pops out only stays out as long as pressure is applied to the
>adjacent section - so I guess it is not true oil canning where there are
>two stable states. There are two or three sections like this on each
>side. The trailing edge is straight as an arrow so that is not a
>problem. I suspect that this is just life and is probably impossible to
>totally eliminate since the rudder sides are flat (rather than all other
>control surfaces that have some curve in them).
>
>In any case, is this a problem? If so, what can I do about it?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dick. 90573
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Sealant in AN fittings |
I am about to start on the ally tubing , vent lines etc.
Question: Do you put the sealant just on the threads of the AN fittings or
should it go on the flared 'face' as well, where it meets the AN fitting?
Never done this before. For the record I am using Bakerseal.
Thanks everybody.
Steve.
#90360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealant in AN fittings |
Steve.......flared fittings go together dry. Use pipe thread sealant (paste) on
the pipe threads (tapered threads) only.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sampson
To: RV Squadron (E-mail) ; rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:21 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Sealant in AN fittings
I am about to start on the ally tubing , vent lines etc.
Question: Do you put the sealant just on the threads of the AN fittings or
should it go on the flared 'face' as well, where it meets the AN fitting?
Never done this before. For the record I am using Bakerseal.
Thanks everybody.
Steve.
#90360
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealant in AN fittings |
My understanding is that Bakerseal is for the pipe thread type fittings. For the
basic AN fittings you don't want anything on the flared face. You use fuellube
on the threaded part just to keep the aluminum from galling.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:21:38 -0000
>
>I am about to start on the ally tubing , vent lines etc.
>
>Question: Do you put the sealant just on the threads of the AN fittings or
>should it go on the flared 'face' as well, where it meets the AN fitting?
>Never done this before. For the record I am using Bakerseal.
>
>Thanks everybody.
>Steve.
>
>#90360
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealant in AN fittings |
Here is a copy of an e-mail I sent to Van's on this subject:
> Should the blue AN fittings for the fuel system be put together with
> some type of stuff like fuel lube, or is it better to put them
> together dry?
>
> What about the fittings for the pitot tube?
Here is the reply from Gus:
You can use fuel lube or similar on flare fittings, which lets the
fittings turn easier with less galling, but it is not essential. The seal
is formed by compression of the tube onto the mating surface, not
around the threads. Some teflon pipe sealant is useful on the pipe
threads.
Gus
Hope this helps.
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How To Wire a "Dual-Rate" Electric Trim System... |
Matt, why do you use a controller at all, on the "fast" side? Why not
use one for the "slow" side?
Barry Pote RV9a
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I've recently received a number of requests from builders regarding how to
> wire up a "dual-rate" system for their electric trim installation. The
> concept is that in cruse configuration the trim speed would be slow and
> during flaps down configuration the trim speed would be fast.
>
> I've draw up a schematic diagram that shows how to accomplish this using
> two Matronics Governor MkIII units, a 12v relay, and an extra switch.
>
> With the flaps up, the "fast" Governor MkIII is switched in, and when the
> flaps are down, the "slow" Governor MkIII is switched in. I would
> recommend using the highest quality, sealed relay available for this
> installation.
>
> Here is the Dual-Rate PDF document:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII/DualRate-GovernorMkIII-Installation.pdf
>
> and here is the Governor MkIII website:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII
>
> If you have any questions on the wiring diagram, feel free to email me
> directly at: dralle(at)matronics.com
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How To Wire a "Dual-Rate" Electric Trim System... |
Well, I imagine that it's due to the fact that the controler does more than just
speed control. It also changes the way the switches hookup (to a better method
I might say) so you need it inline for both cases.
With the matronics product you simply pull the switch to ground to activate the
trim. It's very easy to wire and hookup.
Can you tell that I just finished installing 2 of them. 1 for Elevator and 1 for
Aileron.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:10:32 -0500
>
>Matt, why do you use a controller at all, on the "fast" side? Why not
>use one for the "slow" side?
>Barry Pote RV9a
>
>Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>> I've recently received a number of requests from builders regarding how to
>> wire up a "dual-rate" system for their electric trim installation. The
>> concept is that in cruse configuration the trim speed would be slow and
>> during flaps down configuration the trim speed would be fast.
>>
>> I've draw up a schematic diagram that shows how to accomplish this using
>> two Matronics Governor MkIII units, a 12v relay, and an extra switch.
>>
>> With the flaps up, the "fast" Governor MkIII is switched in, and when the
>> flaps are down, the "slow" Governor MkIII is switched in. I would
>> recommend using the highest quality, sealed relay available for this
>> installation.
>>
>> Here is the Dual-Rate PDF document:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII/DualRate-GovernorMkIII-Installation.pdf
>>
>> and here is the Governor MkIII website:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/GovernorMkIII
>>
>> If you have any questions on the wiring diagram, feel free to email me
>> directly at: dralle(at)matronics.com
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Matt Dralle
>>
>> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
>> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | A Barry's Headsup (I made the mistake, you do not have to) |
I am on the rollbar canopy thing.
1. The vertical cover connecting the front and rear main spars...you
know the one that has 1000 pop rivets! Don't install till your rollbar
is permanently mounted. Making and fitting the spacers and installing
the rollbar bolts is a bear, if you have installed this piece. It can be
done. Don't ask how I know.
2. Drawing 41 part c-657 shows a scallop cut for clearance in the rear
of both canopy rails. There is a full scale drawing but the measurements
or the drawing are messed up. I sent email to support about this.
Barry Pote looking like an airplane!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Vertical Stabilizer Light/Wiring |
I could use some advice. I'm about to close up the
VS and the directions tell me to "provide for
necessary wiring runs". I am going to want lights, so
what should I do? Do I need to install clips, put a
string through so I can fish wire later. I would not
think I would be starting to put wire in this early in
the project.
Thanks
Ken Moak
90608 Empennage
=====
Ken Moak
ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stabilizer Light/Wiring |
11/01/2002 03:40:25 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/01/2002 03:40:25 PM
Ken,
You can either put a sting in between the top and bottom ribs in front
of the front spar or put a small conduit there with a clamp or two in
the middle. Either way, you will be bale to get back in later if you
decide to do anything in the vertical stab.
Remember that the fixed cap for the vertical stab only goes back as far
as the front spar so you do not want to put it behind the front spar.
You can fish things through later but it is a hassle.
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | ref drawing 41 part c657 error |
Reference my post yesterday, about the above subject, Bruce in support
was surprised that no one had ever said anything about it.
I guess a quick check of 'fullscale drawings' by measuring the drawing,
would not hurt.
The rollbar placement measurements are also off by 200%, as has been
noted in the past.
Barry Pote Rv9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Barry's Headsup (I made the mistake, |
you do not have to)
on 10/31/02 9:44 PM, Andy Karmy at andy(at)karmy.com wrote:
>
> Yep, too late for me. I had already riveted those covers on and had to drill
> them all out to bolt the rollbar on. Now that I'm done wiring I riveted them
> on once again!
>
> - Andy
>
Do the covers have a part number? Are they part of the fuselage kit or part
of the finish kit?
Thanks,
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Barry's Headsup (I made the mistake, you do not |
have to)
Mark,
The Upright Cap Strips are F-704K, part of the Fuselage
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: A Barry's Headsup (I made the mistake, you do not
have to)
>
> on 10/31/02 9:44 PM, Andy Karmy at andy(at)karmy.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Yep, too late for me. I had already riveted those covers on and had to
drill
> > them all out to bolt the rollbar on. Now that I'm done wiring I riveted
them
> > on once again!
> >
> > - Andy
> >
> Do the covers have a part number? Are they part of the fuselage kit or
part
> of the finish kit?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Schrimmer
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2002 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show much traffic the
Lists generated last year alone:
11/01/2001 - 10/31/2002
Web server hits: 8,700,000 (727,000/mo)
Incoming Email Posts: 51,259 (4,271/mo) *
* This number is multiplied by the total number of email addresses
subscribed to the given List. The actual number of email message processed
is in the 50,000,000 range for last year!!
The new Internet provider, Speakeasy, has been providing extremely fast and
reliable service over the last year, and this has certainly been a
refreshing change from previous providers!
There were a couple of new features added at the tail-end of last year
including the new List Browse Feature ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
), and the List Photoshare which have been both very popular. Many people
have written to say how much they enjoy the on-line browsing capability of
current week's messages. The 184 new Photoshares (
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ) added over the last year attests to
its acceptance and appreciation in the community as well.
I have upgraded both the email and web server OS systems recently to the
latest - well almost the latest - version of Redhat Linux and Kernel
2.4.19, both of which have been working very well and quite reliably.
What does the future hold? Well, something pretty exciting I'm
hoping... I am currently evaluating a new, commercially available software
package that runs under Linux and provides a complete web-based Email List
service akin to what those other guys use. The difference will be that
there won't be any annoying advertisements and popup ads on the Matronics
system!! The system will continue to be dedicated to furthering Lists
activities and not trying to sell you something you don't want. My hope is
to keep most if not all of the current functionality in place and add the
new software system over the top. Some of the system will be replaced
(like majordomo), but the lists will work much like they do today - only
BETTER! As I mentioned, I am currently in the evaluation stage of this and
have yet to select a final product. Suffice to say some facelifts are
definitely on the way!
Unlike many of the other "list servers" on the web these days, I have a
strict no-commercial-advertisement policy on the Matronics Lists and
associated List websites. I have been approached by a number of vendors
recently with advertising deals that have been very tempting. However, my
commitment to providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment
prevails! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing
exponentially every year with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to
mention the ever increasing Virus attacks. My goal with the Matronics List
Service is to provide my members with a commercial-free, safe, and
high-performance system in which to share information, ideas, and
camaraderie.
I recoup my upgrade, maintenance, and operating costs by having a List Fund
Raiser once a year during November. During this time, I ask List members
to donate a small amount of money to support the continued operation of the
Lists over the upcoming year. Contributions in the $20, $30, and $50 range
are common. This year I have completely revamped the Contribution website,
and have added the ability to use PayPal to make your Contribution in
addition to the traditional Visa/MC and Personal Check Options. Its easier
and faster than ever before to make your Contribution!! For those who are
accustomed to using PayPal to make Internet purchases, will appreciate the
ease and speed of using this handy method of payment to make their List
Contribution.
The best news this year, however, is that I have a couple of fantastic Gift
offers to support the List Fund Raiser! Andy Gold of The Builder's
Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) will be generously donating a
FREE Jeppesen Flight Bag to anyone making a $50 or more List Contribution
during the Fund Raiser! This is a great bag and something you'll surely
what to get your hands on. Thanks Andy, for this great incentive!!
In addition to the great Flight Bag, I will also be offering a FREE
Matronics List Archive CDROM for a $50 or greater Contribution! This is a
complete set of archives for all Email Lists currently hosted by
Matronics. The Archives date back to the beginning of the each List. In
the case of the RV-List, for example, this includes archives all the way
back to 1990! That's about 133Mb alone! Also included on the CD is a copy
of Chip Gibbion's Windows Archive Search Utility and a precompiled
search-index for each archive on the CD.
Better yet?! You can get BOTH the Flight Bag AND the Archive CD for a
Contribution of $75 or more which is actually LESS than the combined retail
price on the two items!!! How can you go wrong? Get some great stuff AND
support your Lists at the same time!
Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List
Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the
process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the
generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from
a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made
possible through YOUR support!
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who supports the
List this year. Your generosity contributes directly to the quality of the
experience here.
To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with
a Personal Check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find
additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as additional
information on the various methods of payment.
SSL Secure Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Again, I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this
year! Your Contributions truly make it all possible!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | slider rollbar squareness |
My rollbar for the slider canopy on my RV9a sort of stood on 'tippy
toes'. There were a lot of globby welds on this weldment piece, that
hung out all over. It was not flat on the base, at the start.
I ground down the welds and both the left and right sat nice and flat on
the fuselage.
However, when checking for square to the longerons, both sides were out
of square, by different degrees.
I played with shims and clamps all afternoon. I can get one side
perfect, but the other side needs excessive pressure to get it perfect.
I can grab the top of the rollbar and with that,as a 2 foot 'lever', I
can bring the out of square side down, but I can see the other side
flexing, when I do.
QUESTION: Is pretty close OK here or do you want it right on, so the
canopy frame comes up nice?
Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: slider rollbar squareness |
Barry,
I ended up putting two .032 (total of .064) shims under the left leading
corner (AN3-6A Bolt).
The other three points came in nicely with the Roll Bar sitting at 90 to
the Longerons.
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV9-List: slider rollbar squareness
>
> My rollbar for the slider canopy on my RV9a sort of stood on 'tippy
> toes'. There were a lot of globby welds on this weldment piece, that
> hung out all over. It was not flat on the base, at the start.
>
> I ground down the welds and both the left and right sat nice and flat on
> the fuselage.
>
> However, when checking for square to the longerons, both sides were out
> of square, by different degrees.
>
> I played with shims and clamps all afternoon. I can get one side
> perfect, but the other side needs excessive pressure to get it perfect.
> I can grab the top of the rollbar and with that,as a 2 foot 'lever', I
> can bring the out of square side down, but I can see the other side
> flexing, when I do.
>
> QUESTION: Is pretty close OK here or do you want it right on, so the
> canopy frame comes up nice?
>
> Barry Pote RV9a
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
| Subject: | RE: RV9rollbar placement measurements |
>From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
>Subject: RV9-List: ref drawing 41 part c657 error
I am not able to find any previous mention of this subject in the archives.
What have you found from Vans support?
Don Piermattei
90411
Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
5000 E County Rd 92
Carr, CO 80612
970/568-9047
Fax 970/568-7279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: slider rollbar squareness |
Hey Barry,
If you are referring to the lower front of the slider frame and how much gap you
have to the roll bar... Then on mine my 2 sides are not even with the same gap.
One side has about 1/4" more gap than the other. From what I can tell this
is not really that critical since this area will be covered with a 2 inch fiberglass
molded strip later so the gap won't be visible and should provide no ill
effects.
You do need it to match perfectly the shape of the longarons and all the other
places like the latest instructions in the RVator listed.
- Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: slider rollbar squareness |
No, Andy, I am referring to the rollbar, itself. The big old "U" shape,
upside down. The sides of the "U" are not quite in the same plane, but
the bottoms of the brackets that bolt to the longerons are. So to get
the upright portion perpendicular, I have to shim the backside of both,
but one more than the other.
Barry
Andy Karmy wrote:
>
>
> Hey Barry,
>
> If you are referring to the lower front of the slider frame and how much gap
you have to the roll bar... Then on mine my 2 sides are not even with the same
gap. One side has about 1/4" more gap than the other. From what I can tell this
is not really that critical since this area will be covered with a 2 inch fiberglass
molded strip later so the gap won't be visible and should provide no
ill effects.
>
> You do need it to match perfectly the shape of the longarons and all the other
places like the latest instructions in the RVator listed.
>
> - Andy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV9rollbar placement measurements |
They are not open on Saturdays. I will work on it some more after
Church, today. I'll let you know what Van's says.
Barry
Don/Marcia Piermattei wrote:
>
>
> >From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
> >Subject: RV9-List: ref drawing 41 part c657 error
>
> I am not able to find any previous mention of this subject in the archives.
> What have you found from Vans support?
> Don Piermattei
> 90411
>
> Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
> 5000 E County Rd 92
> Carr, CO 80612
> 970/568-9047
> Fax 970/568-7279
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | RV-9A Cowl Fitting |
RV-9A with O-320-D1A engine w/ Hartzell C/S Propeller w/ new epoxy
honeycomb cowl
For the initial fitting of the cowl without the propeller install, we
added a 9.0 inch diameter by 1.5 inch thick "plug" to forward face of
the engine starter ring gear. Vans Dwg C4 says the aft face of the C/S
hub to which the rear spinner bulkhead mounts is 2.25 inches forward of
the forward face of the engine starter ring gear. The flange of the rear
spinner bulkhead is 5/8 inch (.625) and the minimum clearance between
the spinner and the cowl is 1/8 inch (.125). Thus, the "plug" should be
2.25 -.625 -.125 = 1.50 inches thick.
The forward face of the cowl should be flush to the forward face of the
plug to obtain equal spinner clearance (1/8 inch).
With the forward face of the lower cowl mounted flush to the forward
face of the plug, the right aft side of the cowl overlaps the fuselage
bulkhead approximately 1.0 inches more than the left aft side and the
right side hinge is very close to the raised honeycomb. Yes, we know
there is an approximate 1.25 degree right thrust angle.
If we decide to increase the spinner/cowl clearance, the interference
with the honeycomb will be exasperated.
I did not have this problem on my RV-6A cowl (ordered in 1998)
The cowl is marked "RV-6 320 ".
Do we have a "bad" cowl?
Richard Reynolds, helping a RV-9A builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: slider rollbar squareness |
My roll bar had some of the same problems. I put some twist in it to make
the bracket on one side sit flat on the longeron so that the other side
didn't need too much of a shim. Twisting the roll bar takes some muscle.
Glad I had some (borrowed it from a friend)
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net> |
I am a new builder and new to this list. I just made my contribution as I am sure
I will get my money's worth from the great info here. I hope everybody takes
the time to do the same. Thanks! Glenn Brasch-Arizona.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: slider rollbar squareness |
UPDATE ON ROLLBAR SQUARENESS.....CAUTION NOTE....DISCLAIMER... What
follows is a work in progress and is my interpretation of Van's support
guidance. I will keep you appraised:
Van's told me today that "the 90 degree note on the drawing 42 view C-C,
is not as important as some other things". Putting a square on the
longeron and the rollbar is not as important as another measurement.
To whit; put a straight edge from one side of the fuselage to the other,
touching the rollbar tubes. Drop a plumb bob from the top center. The
place that is critical is the latch pin area. Max is 3/8" forward of the
straight edge. Being aft is not as critical, but try to keep it under
3/8", also. Also note that the gaps to canopy frame to rollbar, on the
sides, is NOT CRITICAL AT ALL. That more builders get in deep, trying to
get nicely spaced, equal on both sides, gaps! That the rear canopy frame
is what you need to work hard on.
My rollbar is tipped aft almost 3/8", using the straight edge method,
using an .032 under the heals of the rollbar, on both sides. I'll let
you how it goes. If it doesn't work, I'll loosen those nasty bolts and
stuff some more shims in there.
Barry Pote RV9a
snip
> I played with shims and clamps all afternoon. I can get one side
> perfect, but the other side needs excessive pressure to get it perfect.
> QUESTION: Is pretty close OK here or do you want it right on, so the
> canopy frame comes up nice?
>
> Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Heads up drawing 42 detail A (railings) |
DETAIL A drawing 42 shows 1/2" spacing from front of railing to center
of screw. That's fine. But it then shows 1/2" spacing, for the same
screw from the inside of the rail...NOT.
This is a full scale drawing and those 1/2"'s are not equal.
TECH SAYS: side spacing is not 1/2" It should have said "centered" on
the flange.
Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New List Digest Feature!! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've added a new feature to the Digest format of the Lists tonight. At the
top of each digest you will find a new Index Listing of all of the messages
found within that Digest including the Message Number, Subject, Poster, and
Time of Day posted.
I've also added a "Message Number" header to each message within the Digest
so that its easy to find 'just the message' you were looking for!
Sorry for the double posting of the digests tonight - the first time I
didn't quite have the code right and a few "bogus" entries made it into the
Index. I went ahead and reposted the Digest so that everyone could see how
the Index-to-Message mapping really worked.
Special 'thanks' to Gary Hall for not only suggesting a Digest Index, but
also supplying a few samples on how it might look. Gary, I think you'll be
quite pleased with the format!
Don't forget that were right in the middle of this year's List Fund Raiser
and if you haven't already made your Contribution, you own it to yourself
to check out the great free Gifts that are available this year with your
qualifying Contribution.
The Lists are operated completely though the support of it members, and so
its up to YOU to get that credit card out and make that $20, $30, or $50
show of support for the continued operation of the Lists.
Won't you take a couple of minutes and make a quick Contribution on the all
new, streamlined List Support web site? I've also added a
Payment-through-PayPal option this year, and this is proving a very popular
method of payment. Don't forget to check out the great free gifts you can
get with a qualifying Contribution this year. I can't believe how popular
they've been this year! Hurry and get your's today and support the Lists
at the same time!
Here's the SSL Secure URL for making your Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your Support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Bradley" <ronbradley(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | wings & fuselage kits |
I have my 9 tail finished, looking for wings & fuselage kits anyone is
selling?
Ron Bradley
Central Region Sales Manager
Clinical Computer Systems
715 Tollgate Rd
Elgin, IL 60123
888 871 0963 x628
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wings & fuselage kits |
I saw this ad.
From: John Carillon <Carillon@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 5:12 pm
Subject: RV 9A Quickbuild Kit 90415 for Sale
The best laid plans....
Brief story leading up to a disappointing situation.
Last August I sold my Piper Saratoga and ordered the 9A QB kit. It
took longer than expected to finish the Zenith 601HDS I was building so
no work has been started. It is now apparent that my wife, at age 69,
has become too unsteady and claustrophobic to climb up on the wing -
even with my help - get in the cockpit and let me close the canopy.
After 45 years it is easier to change airplanes than wives so I just
purchased another Saratoga. As before, it is easy for her to get in the
back door, and she feels comfortable with the room the club seating
provides. This is important because we plan to travel a lot now that we
can.
The QB kit set up for 160 Hp Lyc.Dynafocal mounts and CS prop has been
opened, inspected, and inventoried. It is complete with all
documentation, finishing kit, and options which include wing landing
lights, electric elevator trim, manual aileron trim, external steps, and
static air kit.
The kit is located near Ladysmith, Wi. ( RCX ). My address is:
W15873 Ross Road
Sheldon , Wi. 54766
Tel. 1-715-668-5527
Fax 1-715-668-5547
I would be willing to pick up serious buyers, wanting to inspect the
kit, in my Saratoga, provide local transportation, and fly them home
again. Somebody will be able to take advantage of this situation, get a
great deal, and with some dedication, be flying when the weather warms
up again.
John Carillon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Bradley" <ronbradley(at)attbi.com>
Subject: RV9-List: wings & fuselage kits
|
| I have my 9 tail finished, looking for wings & fuselage kits anyone is
| selling?
|
|
| Ron Bradley
|
| Central Region Sales Manager
|
| Clinical Computer Systems
|
| 715 Tollgate Rd
|
| Elgin, IL 60123
|
| 888 871 0963 x628
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Kovac" <kayce(at)sysmatrix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wings & fuselage kits |
Hi Larry,
I just sent for my set of study plans for the RV9, and this appeared today,
how much are you asking for this kit?
Harold Kovac..Central Florida, kayce(at)sysmatrix.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: wings & fuselage kits
>
> I saw this ad.
>
> From: John Carillon <Carillon@c...>
> Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 5:12 pm
> Subject: RV 9A Quickbuild Kit 90415 for Sale
>
>
> The best laid plans....
>
> Brief story leading up to a disappointing situation.
>
> Last August I sold my Piper Saratoga and ordered the 9A QB kit. It
> took longer than expected to finish the Zenith 601HDS I was building so
> no work has been started. It is now apparent that my wife, at age 69,
> has become too unsteady and claustrophobic to climb up on the wing -
> even with my help - get in the cockpit and let me close the canopy.
> After 45 years it is easier to change airplanes than wives so I just
> purchased another Saratoga. As before, it is easy for her to get in the
> back door, and she feels comfortable with the room the club seating
> provides. This is important because we plan to travel a lot now that we
> can.
>
> The QB kit set up for 160 Hp Lyc.Dynafocal mounts and CS prop has been
> opened, inspected, and inventoried. It is complete with all
> documentation, finishing kit, and options which include wing landing
> lights, electric elevator trim, manual aileron trim, external steps, and
> static air kit.
>
> The kit is located near Ladysmith, Wi. ( RCX ). My address is:
>
> W15873 Ross Road
> Sheldon , Wi. 54766
> Tel. 1-715-668-5527
> Fax 1-715-668-5547
>
> I would be willing to pick up serious buyers, wanting to inspect the
> kit, in my Saratoga, provide local transportation, and fly them home
> again. Somebody will be able to take advantage of this situation, get a
> great deal, and with some dedication, be flying when the weather warms
> up again.
>
> John Carillon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Bradley" <ronbradley(at)attbi.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV9-List: wings & fuselage kits
>
>
> |
> | I have my 9 tail finished, looking for wings & fuselage kits anyone is
> | selling?
> |
> |
> | Ron Bradley
> |
> | Central Region Sales Manager
> |
> | Clinical Computer Systems
> |
> | 715 Tollgate Rd
> |
> | Elgin, IL 60123
> |
> | 888 871 0963 x628
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wings & fuselage kits |
11/06/2002 03:32:35 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/06/2002 03:32:35 PM
Harold,
I am not selling the kit. If you go to the bottom, the person who is
selling has his contact info there.
Larry Perryman
N194DL Flying
Harold Kovac
11/06/2002 06:27 AM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV9-List: wings & fuselage kits
Hi Larry,
I just sent for my set of study plans for the RV9, and this appeared
today,
how much are you asking for this kit?
Harold Kovac..Central Florida, kayce(at)sysmatrix.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: wings & fuselage kits
>
> I saw this ad.
>
> From: John Carillon <Carillon@c...>
> Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 5:12 pm
> Subject: RV 9A Quickbuild Kit 90415 for Sale
>
>
> The best laid plans....
>
> Brief story leading up to a disappointing situation.
>
> Last August I sold my Piper Saratoga and ordered the 9A QB kit. It
> took longer than expected to finish the Zenith 601HDS I was building
so
> no work has been started. It is now apparent that my wife, at age 69,
> has become too unsteady and claustrophobic to climb up on the wing -
> even with my help - get in the cockpit and let me close the canopy.
> After 45 years it is easier to change airplanes than wives so I just
> purchased another Saratoga. As before, it is easy for her to get in
the
> back door, and she feels comfortable with the room the club seating
> provides. This is important because we plan to travel a lot now that
we
> can.
>
> The QB kit set up for 160 Hp Lyc.Dynafocal mounts and CS prop has been
> opened, inspected, and inventoried. It is complete with all
> documentation, finishing kit, and options which include wing landing
> lights, electric elevator trim, manual aileron trim, external steps,
and
> static air kit.
>
> The kit is located near Ladysmith, Wi. ( RCX ). My address is:
>
> W15873 Ross Road
> Sheldon , Wi. 54766
> Tel. 1-715-668-5527
> Fax 1-715-668-5547
>
> I would be willing to pick up serious buyers, wanting to inspect the
> kit, in my Saratoga, provide local transportation, and fly them home
> again. Somebody will be able to take advantage of this situation, get
a
> great deal, and with some dedication, be flying when the weather warms
> up again.
>
> John Carillon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Bradley" <ronbradley(at)attbi.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV9-List: wings & fuselage kits
>
>
> |
> | I have my 9 tail finished, looking for wings & fuselage kits anyone
is
> | selling?
> |
> |
> | Ron Bradley
> |
> | Central Region Sales Manager
> |
> | Clinical Computer Systems
> |
> | 715 Tollgate Rd
> |
> | Elgin, IL 60123
> |
> | 888 871 0963 x628
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
==
Contribution
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
on 11/6/02 8:51 AM, DThomas773(at)aol.com at DThomas773(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> I'm just starting on my ailerons and am reading the instructions about
> holding everything flat with lead shot. How much weight is actually needed
> to do this? Is there a cheap place to get this stuff or is there a good
> cheap substitute.
>
> Dennis Thomas (the cheap guy)
> RV-9, wings
> Tail dragger kit on order
>
Dennis,
I used sandbags. They cost about $2.50 per bag at Home Depot. Four bags is
more than enough for ailerons and flaps.
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
Just to let the list know......someone has been using my email address to send
viruses and internet trash. A few people on the list have gotten such emails
with my address on them. I have even gotten a couple myself.
I am not sending these, and if you recieve unsolicited emails from my address which
have attachments, delete them, and make sure your anti-virus software is
protecting you.
If I contact you via email, I will not send attachments, unless on later emails
I let you know to expect them. I don't know what else to do about this.
I have also gotten one or two from addresses that sound like they came from other
RV list members.
Gary
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
One slight enhancement... I too used Sand from Lowes.
I took the sand and filled up gallon size ziplock bags with it. Then I wraped the
ziplocks in a cloth shop towel and secured with duct tape. The are a nice size
and I used them for all kinds of thing from that point on in the project.
- Andy Karmy
RV9A - Seattle WA
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>I used sandbags. They cost about $2.50 per bag at Home Depot. Four bags is
>more than enough for ailerons and flaps.
>
>Mark Schrimmer
>Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel fairing idea update. |
Cy Galley wrote:
>
> Still think you should look at what Jim Bede did 20 years ago for the BD-4.
> His used a small hand hydraulic pump if I remember correctly.
I searched the net but couldn't find anything on it. Do you know someone to
contact?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
...just gotta add a different perspective here. I didn't use any weights.
Instead, I built my control surfaces vertically while attached to the wings by
their hinges. This allowed me to clamp the full length of the trailing edges
between long angles (my longerons) to be absolutely sure they came out straight
and true (which are not necessarily a measurement of the same thing).
There's always more than one way to skin a bird!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Wheel fairing idea update |
Chris and Cy
This goes back quite a few years, so forgive me if my facts are a little fuzzy.
I believe the Bede wheel fairing work was done somewhere during the mid '70s.
Delmar Hostettler (sp) worked for Bede and built a very fast BD-4. The wheel
fairing work , a single place BD-? that looked just like a scaled down BD-4,
and an aerobatic aircraft that I don't believe ever flew, were all done at the
Hostettler farm near Wichita, not at Newton. My friend, Larry Heuberger, actually
test flew the fairings on a Cessna at the farm strip. I know this all
took place sometime after I left Cessna Flight Test in 1968. Some of the " Old
Timers " in EAA Chapter 88 might have more info for you.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A 90095
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | federigo(at)pacbell.net |
| Subject: | Re: Heads up drawing 42 detail A (railings) |
Barry, you mentioned some problems with DWG 42, detail A. My copy of
that drawing has the note R1, which reads: Zone D9, Dimension "1/2" was
"1 1/32" and "3 5/8" was "7 9/32", Zone D7, Dimension "1/4" was "1/2".
The date on this note is 10/23/01. It sounds like part of this was the
problem you encountered.
Leland in Pleasanton, California
Mucking with the canopy side skirts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | federigo(at)pacbell.net |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding Canopy tips |
Andy, your post from August 22nd (copied below) is a godsend. Thank you
very much.
Leland in Pleasanton, California
"Now for the best tip I have found thus far from the RV list archives!
When it comes time to bolt the slider tracks down to the canopy deck and
longeron sections. These parts are already riveted in and with the
curled lip on the underside it's almost impossible to get your fingers
in there to put nuts and washers on.
Drill the canopy slider tracks to #40 during fitting and cleco on. Then
once the canopy is fit and you're ready to bolt them, cut a .032 strip
1/2 inch wide by the length of the slider track. It needs to cover all
the holes except the last one in the rear as the seat bulkhead blocks
access to that from the bottom. Then simply match drill the strip from
your track. Now mount #8 nutplates on that strip and you will have the
easiest time ever mounting those screws. Drill everything out for the
screws and it goes together as easy as you please.
The rest of it follows the plans nicely. There is no easy way to fit all
the parts. I think I put the frame and canopy on and off about 100+
times before everything fit like I wanted it to! But it's looking good
now. I got by with only 2 .063 shims across the top center of the
windscreen in the end."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... |
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that's already made a
Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't
already made a Contribution, won't you take a movement and show your
support for these valuable services? Since there's no advertising or other
forms of direct commercialism on the forums to support the Lists, its soley
YOUR GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Won't please take a minute and make a Contribution via the SSL secure web
site via Credit Card, Paypal, or personal check. Here's the URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
This year, I've been getting some *really* nice comments from Contributors
and I thought I'd pass along a few of them below. What does the List mean
to *you*?
Thank you for your support!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
_________________ What your fellow Listers are saying... _________________
...great service!!
Greg B.
They have been a great assistance to me in building my RV-8.
Kevin H.
...very much appreciated.
Donald M.
Great site...
Angus F.
...invaluable resource.
Ronald C
[The List] has played a big part in continuing my project at
those times when I got stuck for some reason.
Jeff D.
Although I am only a reader, I find the list very helpful.
Oswaldo F.
The lists are a fantastic resource and are helping me very much...
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The list is part of my life.
Ron C.
The CD will free up some hard disk space on my personal PC.
Jeff D.
...unbelievably useful.
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...dependable and valued source of builder information.
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My daily lifeline!
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...frequently get questions answered on the List.
Billy W.
Don't know how any first-time builder could get by without the lists.
Rick R.
...great source of information and motivation.
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Super resource!
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The information presented is very helpful to the building process.
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Wonderful Service!
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The lists are great!
F. Robert M.
...very valuable to this builder.
William C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Heads up drawing 42 detail A (railings) |
Barry and others:
My procedure for keeping in sync with revisions is to record ALL RV-9A
revisions - whether they occur before I'm at that point - or after I've
completed that part. For instance, when I get the latest RVATOR I will
highlight in yellow (doesn't show on photocopies) every revision affecting
the RV-9a - and those that apply to all models. Then I do the following; 1)
cut out and copy the revision, 2) paste the revision on the top left back of
the affected drawing - or file it until I receive that kit, and 3) mark with
a red marker the affected part on the drawing a simple note - e.g.: "Rev.
3". If my drawing has the revision I will mark it in red "included".
That's it ! ! When I work on something and the part has a red mark, I
immediately flip the edge of the drawing where I can see if my drawing has
it - plus a full narrative , and the picture of the part that was revised.
It is a no-brainer and error-free - even when there is a revision to the
revision. Think about it.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 85% Complete
> My plans are dated 1/10/01, 10 months older than yours. I guess Van's
> does fix things once in a while, contrary to popular opinion. I once
> told Vans that they should post changes on the web site.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | canopy frame fit, manual & plans vs "In the Shop" |
rv9list
It's 10:30 at night. Vans is closed. So I can't call them. My son and I
spent the whole day learning about canopy frame adjustments (a day well
spent). But I am confused.
I really would like to hear from someone that used the manual to fit and
install their canopy frame, and who, has also looked at the RVator 5th
issue 2002 "In The Shop" disertation on canopy fit.
Both the article and the manual talk about the side bow shape, as being
one of the 1st things looked at. The article says get them close to the
shape of the fuselage sides. The manual says make them 1/16th less than
the sides of the fuselage. Thus the manual led me to believe a 'width'
of the canopy frame was involved. The article did not say anything about
width. Is width important at this point?
The 2nd thing, both the manual and article talk about is check the shape
of the canopy front bow to the rollbar. If the 'width' of the prior
operation is important, it will get all messed up, having to reshape the
front bow. Have I answered my own question?
The article says the bow should be taller and wider than the roll bar by
1/8" to 3/16" all the way around. And it should be the max at 10 and 2
o'clock. BUT go to the RV9a drawing 43, for the slider, and detail B
shows that canopy frame should be 3/8" higher than the roll bar. Is the
drawing dated 1/23/01, wrong? 3/8ths is twice 3/16ths, the last time I
looked.
I'd like to get started, 1st thing, but looks like I have to wait till
Barry Pote RV9a
Confused in Montclair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame fit, manual & plans vs "In the Shop" |
Barry,
I can tell you about my canopy and how it fits now that the plane is flying.
1. The front bow is a lot tougher than the rest of the frame. I would bend
it first if it needs any fitting. The idea is to get it higher so that the
line of theback half of the canopy will line up with the line of the
windshield.
Check the width at the rails. if it is ok, cut a 2x2 and fit it between the
two sides near the rollers. Then use a cargo strap with a rachet puller from
one roller to the opposite side bow. use another one to pull the other way.
this will raise the center and not mess with the side bows very much.
When you have the front the way you want it, look at the back and sides.
They should be about the thickness of the plexi inside the line of the skin
so that the plexi will come up flush.
Pay special attention to the back lower corners. I did not and mine are now
pulled out a bit from the fuselage. Makes a nice place for the cabin air to
escape.
Once you have the frame the way you want it to be, place the canopy upside
down on something soft and put the frame inside the canopy. slide it arround
until it fits the curves of the canopy in as many places as you can get.
Especially the top center rail of the frame. If the side rails do not
touch, don't wory about them. once the canopy is cut free, thye will be soft
enough to mold down to the frame.
Mark all around the frame with a big sharpie. Get out your Dremel tool with
the carborundum cutoff disks and go to town. the dremel will be a lot easier
than the large fiber cutoff disk in a die grinder. A lot more control.
leave a little bit extra around the outside lines. about 1/2 inch will do.
You will need some extra for final trim.
There is about 2 inches of extra material for the windshield so it will need
additional trimming later on.
Put masking tape (the tan kind) on the frame where the canopy will sit. Sit
the canopy on the frame and you should see a slightly darker line where the
canopy and frame touch. If you have a chuck for a electric screwdriver, use
that with a small bit to drill pilot holes through the canopy and the frame
or use ceramic tile bits from Home Depot to drill through hte plexi and then
drill the rib with a 40 bit.
I would work from the front bow center down the center bow to the back then
work the side and front bows so that everythign sits down nice and smooth.
Cleco as you go to hold it all in place.
Have fun. It is not as hard as it seems.
Remember, the idea is to get the canopy to fit down as near as possible to
the line of hte fuselage skins. about 12 inch long dowel rods taped to teh
fuselage about every 6 inches will show you where adjustments are needed in
the frame.
Hope this helps a bit
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame fit, manual & plans vs "In the Shop" |
Larry,
Thanks for the reply. I believe your sequence of events is a good one.
I like, and will 'steal', your racheting cargo strap idea. Do you have a
patent on the rear cabinet air exiting device?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PERRYMAN Larry <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame fit, manual & plans vs "In the Shop" |
11/08/2002 03:24:35 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/08/2002 03:24:35 PM
Barry,
No I do not have a patent on that. I stole it also. I see a lot of
planes with varying degrees of escape space.
Another one that I stole from a couple of RVs on the field is to put a
bight LED on the fuselage near the canopy that is wired into the master
electrical switch. Then if I see the light on, I know I "forgot" to turn
the master off.
Larry Perryman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A engine mount/fuel pump interference |
I also found the problem described by Jim Sears (copied below) on my QB.
I also replaced the nutplate with a bolt, head side forward of the
firewall, and the clearance is adequate. But it probably means
replacing the fuel pump in the future will be a 2-man job.
Leland in Pleasanton
Borrowing a shrinker/stretcher tomorrow for the canopy side skirts
"Today, Jim Render and I were starting to set up for drilling the bolts
for the engine mount. As I was checking everything to be sure all would
fit flush to the firewall, I noticed the bolt from the fuel pump was
hitting the backside of the tube that goes up to the nose gear tube.
It was far enough out that it held the lower mount pads out about 1/4".
We checked the plans and found that the folks who did Jim's QB fuse were
right on with the pump bolts locations, as best we could tell. To get
the clearance for the mount bolts to fit up, we had to remove the anchor
nut from the firewall and put the bolt for the fuel pump through the
hole from the firewall side.
We talked to Van's about this and were told that we must be mistaken
since nobody else had complained about the problem. Since I'd already
built a RV, I told them that I do know a little about building one; and,
the problem is there. Anyway, I was just curious if anyone has had a
problem with this. It's either a bad design that needs fixing; or,
somebody messed up when the fuse was built. I'm betting on the design
error. What we did will work just fine; but, it's another thing that
we've found wrong with the QB.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor "
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Intersection Fairings |
Some RV-6A builders are talking about the upper gear leg to fuse fairings.
For the 9A they need to be built with the wing on the fuse since they
conform to both the wing and the fuse but you can get a good head start on
those fairings if you have enough room in your shop. After you have the fuse
put together but before you turn it upright attach the wings one at a time
with a couple of regular bolts just to achieve alignment. Get some modeling
clay and make a form for the fairing. It's a lot easier to work on this
fairing while the fuse is upside down. I also made the fairing for the leg
to pant intersection at this time as well as fit the pant to the wheel. At
the same time you can see how much room there will be between the fuse side
and the fuel tank so that the fuel and vent lines can be cut to length.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
I am installing the three rod ends into the rudder and have discovered
something that doesn't make sense to me.
The plans give explicit dimensions for how far each rod end must extend
from the spar web. However, these three dimensions do not put the rod
end bearings in a straight line. The three dimensions called out on my
drawing are 51/64, 63/64 and 1 1/16 (from the spar web). If one assumes
that the two end dimensions are correct, the middle one should be
(59.5)/64 to give a straight line.
So I am confused. I would assume that in a design that includes a
pivoted member like the rudder/VS assembly, one would want the three
pivots in a straight line - which would mean that at least one of the
dimensions is wrong. Or is there a specific reason that they are not
aligned???
Dick Tasker, 90573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
I am installing the three rod ends into the rudder and have discovered
something that doesn't make sense to me.
The plans give explicit dimensions for how far each rod end must extend
from the spar web. However, these three dimensions do not put the rod
end bearings in a straight line. The three dimensions called out on my
drawing are 51/64, 63/64 and 1 1/16 (from the spar web). If one assumes
that the two end dimensions are correct, the middle one should be
(59.5)/64 to give a straight line.
So I am confused. I would assume that in a design that includes a
pivoted member like the rudder/VS assembly, one would want the three
pivots in a straight line - which would mean that at least one of the
dimensions is wrong. Or is there a specific reason that they are not
aligned???
Dick Tasker, 90573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank senders |
Any one know why one sender (standard float type) is Left the other Right?
Except for the hole pattern they are not a mirror image of each other but
identical as far as I can see! Thanks, steve
#90360
N Yorks UK
Fuse & Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "guy" <gvotuc(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank senders |
Steve,
The angle ( position ) of the float is quite different from left to right as
far as front to back. Confusing yes... but the best I
can describe. And yes..mine are in :>)
Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel tank senders
>
> Any one know why one sender (standard float type) is Left the other Right?
> Except for the hole pattern they are not a mirror image of each other but
> identical as far as I can see! Thanks, steve
>
> #90360
> N Yorks UK
> Fuse & Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Marie Murillo
Dear Listers,
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank senders |
Guy - yes it is confusing. I agree that the position is different but that
surely is because of poor manufacturing. The right angle bracket is not a
right angle and its because of the fact that they are NOT mirror image parts
that you have the differences you describe. I clearly have parts which are
coded left and right. However one has the metal face forward, the other the
plastic face forward.
Thinking about it I suspect the whole issue is that the 'code' in the
mounting hole patterns is to ensure they are installed the right way up
(Hopefully people who build AND FLY aircraft know up from down!)
If anyone else knows though why they are coded L & R I would really like to
know. I remain concerned that I have a duff one.
Thanks Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of guy
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fuel tank senders
Steve,
The angle ( position ) of the float is quite different from left to right
as far as front to back. Confusing yes... but the best I
can describe. And yes..mine are in :>)
Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel tank senders
>
> Any one know why one sender (standard float type) is Left the other Right?
> Except for the hole pattern they are not a mirror image of each other but
> identical as far as I can see! Thanks, steve
>
> #90360
> N Yorks UK
> Fuse & Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "guy" <gvotuc(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank senders |
Let me try this another way.... I could not make a "L" work in the right tank if
I wanted to. The float is designed to sit torwards
the back ( biggest) portion. The mounting hole is more torwards the center. If
you take a left and sick it in the right tank, the
float will end up torwards the front of the tank (rubbing everywhere).
Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Fuel tank senders
>
> Guy - yes it is confusing. I agree that the position is different but that
> surely is because of poor manufacturing. The right angle bracket is not a
> right angle and its because of the fact that they are NOT mirror image parts
> that you have the differences you describe. I clearly have parts which are
> coded left and right. However one has the metal face forward, the other the
> plastic face forward.
> Thinking about it I suspect the whole issue is that the 'code' in the
> mounting hole patterns is to ensure they are installed the right way up
> (Hopefully people who build AND FLY aircraft know up from down!)
>
> If anyone else knows though why they are coded L & R I would really like to
> know. I remain concerned that I have a duff one.
>
> Thanks Steve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of guy
> Sent: 10 November 2002 18:01
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Fuel tank senders
>
>
> Steve,
>
> The angle ( position ) of the float is quite different from left to right
> as far as front to back. Confusing yes... but the best I
> can describe. And yes..mine are in :>)
>
> Guy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RV9-List: Fuel tank senders
>
>
>
> >
> > Any one know why one sender (standard float type) is Left the other Right?
> > Except for the hole pattern they are not a mirror image of each other but
> > identical as far as I can see! Thanks, steve
> >
> > #90360
> > N Yorks UK
> > Fuse & Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
To Dick Trasker, etal
I have SN 90095, so my rudder was assembled from DWG 7, REV 1. The only guidance
for rod end dimensioning was in zones 9A and 10A on DWG 6, which gave a dimension
between the rudder and stabilizer spars of 2 inches at the top and 2 1/2
inches at the bottom. This required a number of calculations to arrive at the
dimensions from the front face of the rudder spar, after assembly, to also
assure that the leading edge clearances were correct. Van's published REV 2 for
DWG 7 in the RVator but did not include note 2. From the tiny detail published,
I would conclude that the rod ends need to be installed on the spar assembly
prior to adding the skins. The dimensions appear to be taken from the aft
face of the upper two reinforcement plates and from the aft face of the spar
itself for the lower rod end. I believe that this would explain the apparent
discrepancy. Note 2, which I don't have, may clarify this for you.
Dean Van Winkle, 90095
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Advice on Wing Options |
I am trying to decide if I should order the Capacitive
Fuel Sending Units. What are the
advantage/disadvantage?
Also I thought I have seen lights in the wing tips?
Are the Leading Edge Lights from Vans already cut into
the skins etc or are they just the light parts and I
have to cut them in?
Any opinions advice would be appreciated.
=====
Ken Moak #90608
Fort Worth, TX
Empennage, wings on order
ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "guy" <gvotuc(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice on Wing Options |
Ken,
The leading edge light kit comes with a template for use as a guide to cut/trim
the opening for the light. It's pretty easy. The
capacitive option eliminates the moving parts as the main feature. The electronic
gauges cost much more though. I'm going with both.
Why ? well because it's an option of course !
Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Moak" <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Advice on Wing Options
>
> I am trying to decide if I should order the Capacitive
> Fuel Sending Units. What are the
> advantage/disadvantage?
>
> Also I thought I have seen lights in the wing tips?
>
> Are the Leading Edge Lights from Vans already cut into
> the skins etc or are they just the light parts and I
> have to cut them in?
>
> Any opinions advice would be appreciated.
>
>
> =====
> Ken Moak #90608
> Fort Worth, TX
> Empennage, wings on order
> ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
>
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | VOR "Cat Whisker" Antenna Location |
Does anyone know why I shouldn't mount a VOR "Cat Whisker" Antenna (AV-532L)
on the under side of the Aft Fuselage?
I'm thinking the forward area of the F-779 Tail Bottom Skin, just behind the
F-710 Bulkhead. This skin is .040 material and a 040 doubter inside would
make a very solid mount.
It seems the under side of the Fuselage along with the under side of the
Horizontal Stabilizer would make a better Ground Plane than the sides of the
Vertical Stabilizer and (the much further away) top surface of the
Horizontal Stabilizer.
The cable run would also be shorter and much easier to install and maintain.
Dave
90347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rod Ends |
Thanks to this message, I was able to put it all together and figure out
what was going on!
First, the latest dwg 6 does not show the 2" and 2.5" dimensions. But I
do have the older drawing in my manual which does show these dimensions.
Using this basic information and making a scale drawing myself showing
all the parts and their respective thicknesses I was able to determine that:
The 51/64, 63/64 and 1 1/16 dimensions are measured from the closest
forward surface of the rudder to the center of the rod ends. That is,
the top two measurements (51/64 and 63/64) are from the forward surface
of the spar and the lowest measurement (1 1/16) is measured from the
forward surface of the reinforcement plate. This gives a result with
all three in a straight line within 0.005". This is NOT what it looks
like on the drawing (I agree that the drawing looks like you what you
suggest is the measurement points - the aft face of the reinforcement
plates and the spar). Unfortunately, if one measures as you suggest (and
as it looks to be), they are out of line since the lower rod has a
0.032" spacer underneath the reinforcement plate. This is also not
exactly what Van's said when I inquired (they said to measure it from
the front side of the spar in all three cases). If one does measure
from the front of the spar in all three cases, the three holes are well
out of line.
The only discrepancy with this whole thing is that using these
measurements the distance as called out on the old drawing 6 is now 2
1/16" and 2 23/32" (2.061" and 2.719"). I guess we can assume that they
decided they needed a little more space between the rudder and VS.
The only problem now is that it looks like the center rod end does not
fully engage the threads in the nutplate with these dimensions. If one
were to use the previous 2" and 2.5" dimensions this would put it an
additional 3+ threads in.
I will have to ask Van's again now that I have a better understanding of
the whole thing.
Whew...
Dick Tasker, 90573
Waiting for the wing kit...
dean van winkle wrote:
>
>To Dick Trasker, etal
>
>I have SN 90095, so my rudder was assembled from DWG 7, REV 1. The only guidance
for rod end dimensioning was in zones 9A and 10A on DWG 6, which gave a dimension
between the rudder and stabilizer spars of 2 inches at the top and 2 1/2
inches at the bottom. This required a number of calculations to arrive at
the dimensions from the front face of the rudder spar, after assembly, to also
assure that the leading edge clearances were correct. Van's published REV 2
for DWG 7 in the RVator but did not include note 2. From the tiny detail published,
I would conclude that the rod ends need to be installed on the spar assembly
prior to adding the skins. The dimensions appear to be taken from the aft
face of the upper two reinforcement plates and from the aft face of the spar
itself for the lower rod end. I believe that this would explain the apparent
discrepancy. Note 2, which I don't have, may clarify this for you.
>
>Dean Van Winkle, 90095
>Fuselage
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rod Ends |
Hi Guys!
My older set of drawings shows decimals, I think. Something like .8 .83
.9888 and I believe the bottom tie rod end is heaver duty than the top
2. And you adjust them as needed. Mine were no where near the 'end of
travel'. They are measured to the center of the ball.
Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rod Ends |
I am not sure that we are talking about the same thing (re: end of
travel). What I mean is that the rod end does not fully thread into the
nutplate - i.e. it does not extend past the far side of the nutplate.
It looks like about four threads are fully engaged, which may not be a
real problem since there are only about five full threads in the
nutplate anyway. It is interesting that your measurements are smaller
than what is on my drawing. If your memory is correct, this would
account for your rod end fully engaging the nutplate and mine not (.83
vs .984 for the center rod end). These measurements would also make the
distance between the VS and rudder spars closer to the originally
specified dimensions.
barry pote wrote:
>
>Hi Guys!
>My older set of drawings shows decimals, I think. Something like .8 .83
>.9888 and I believe the bottom tie rod end is heaver duty than the top
>2. And you adjust them as needed. Mine were no where near the 'end of
>travel'. They are measured to the center of the ball.
>Barry Pote RV9a
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rod Ends |
Richard,
I just checked my 2 manuals. They both have the same. Original manual
10/27/00 and rv9a planning manual with the small drawings 03/07/01"
top .80
middle .99046786 (they said to call it 1")
bottom 1.00"
I think I turned one of them in a half or one turn. maybe.
Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rod Ends |
It's been a while since I installed mine and I don't remember the dims.
however, I do remember feeling there was not enough engagement on the bottom
rod end. I ordered 2 of the longer versions and replaced the middle and
bottom rod end with them.
Robert Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Rudder Rod Ends
>
> Richard,
> I just checked my 2 manuals. They both have the same. Original manual
> 10/27/00 and rv9a planning manual with the small drawings 03/07/01"
> top .80
> middle .99046786 (they said to call it 1")
> bottom 1.00"
>
> I think I turned one of them in a half or one turn. maybe.
> Barry Pote RV9a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder trailing edge installation |
Gene, Dick, et al
I had no problem with the trailing edge 3.5 rivets hooking over when using a back
rivet set like Van shows on page 6-15 and following the instructions in the
last paragraph of " Riveting The Rudder " on page 6-6 of the instructions, which
state, " Start with the rivet set parallel to the rivet and tilt it as the
rivet sets. By the time I started on the flaps and ailerons, I had forgotten
the 3.5 rivet callout on the rudder and elevators, and started to use the 3.0
rivets called out on the drawings. I found out the hard way that they were
too short. Van's agreed that 3.5s should have been called out there too, but
I don't know if the drawings have ever been changed. My own personal concern
is for the 3.0s having sufficient grip over the long term, especially in the flap
trailing edges with the buffeting that they receive.
Dean Van Winkle
Aero Engineer ( Retired )
RV-9A 90095
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice on Wing Options |
Everyone will have different reasons why they do stuff.
I installed the capacitive unit mainly because of it's lack of moving parts.
I have had problems with some cars I have restored with the floats and
decided I'd try these. I have not ever used this type of unit before though
so can't really speak to the accuracy. they were relatively easy to install
although I suspect not as easy as just sliding in a float unit. I shouldn't
have to ever (I hope based on the proseal job I did) open up the tanks for
any reason. I have not bought the gauges yet so may regret this decision
once I have to buy the more expensite gauges. But that's a ways down the
road so not in my scope yet.
As to the lights, I purchased the duckworth (sp?) lights. They require a
hole to be cut in the leading edge skin. No big deal since they give you the
template. I just used a small cut off wheel. There are other options for
lights as well. I happened to like the looks of these in the wing.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Moak" <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Advice on Wing Options
>
> I am trying to decide if I should order the Capacitive
> Fuel Sending Units. What are the
> advantage/disadvantage?
>
> Also I thought I have seen lights in the wing tips?
>
> Are the Leading Edge Lights from Vans already cut into
> the skins etc or are they just the light parts and I
> have to cut them in?
>
> Any opinions advice would be appreciated.
>
>
> =====
> Ken Moak #90608
> Fort Worth, TX
> Empennage, wings on order
> ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
>
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rod Ends |
The lower rod end supplied is now longer than the other two. Maybe they
need to change the middle one to the longer one too.
Dick
robert wrote:
>
>It's been a while since I installed mine and I don't remember the dims.
>however, I do remember feeling there was not enough engagement on the bottom
>rod end. I ordered 2 of the longer versions and replaced the middle and
>bottom rod end with them.
>
>Robert Scott
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rod Ends |
You shouldn't be in any trouble. If you have a newer kit, the lower rod
end is longer than the upper two already. The middle one (I just went
and measured all the dimensions) is long enough. Nothing extra, but it
does go basically flush with the far edge of the platenut (and any
thread past the platenut threads doesn't do anything anyway except add
weight :-) ). If you have an older kit, there is a possibility that
they are all the same. If that is the case, you need to replace the
lower rod end with the next longer one from Van's.
When you do install the rod ends, measure (using the dimensions on the
drawing - 51/64, 63/64 and 1 1/16) from the front of the spar for the
top two and from the front of the reinforcement plate for the lower one
- this will place them properly all in a line.
Dick, 90573
Mark Schrimmer wrote:
>Hmmmm . . .
>
>I riveted the platenuts to the spar, but never did put the rod ends into
>place for a trial fit before I closed up the rudder. Am I gonna be in a heap
>of trouble when I try to attach the rudder to the stabilizer?
>
>Mark Schrimmer
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
| Subject: | Capacitance senders and leading edge lights. |
Ken Moak wrote for advice on Wing Options:-
"I am trying to decide if I should order the Capacitive
Fuel Sending Units. What are the
advantage/disadvantage? Also I thought I have seen lights in the wing tips? "
I had originally decided to install both these options and ordered them from the
factory. I subsequently returned them for the following reasons.
Fuel senders.
a) These require recalibration if the dielectric of the fuel changes i.e. they
will not be accurate with autogas and this error will vary with differing concentrations.
b) The cost of the gauge is very high. For this amount a totaliser option can
be added to many of the monitors that are available - a more useful option
in my opinion.
c) The senders are a standard type and this allows a wide choice of gauges from
various makers. I will probably use VDO gauges.
The lights.
i) I have come to the conclusion I would much rather use the recess in the wing
tip for all my lights. This has been done very successfully on many planes.
ii) I was rather disappointed to find that the kit for setting the lights in
the leading edge used auto driving lights which you disassemble and then use
just the lens and reflector. There are lots of choices for comparable light/reflector
assemblies available for $10 and up and if I can build this plane I
can make my own brackets .......
iii) I really prefer not to cut holes in the leading edges!
My .02.
Good luck.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley.
RV9A fuselage. N919RV resvd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advice on Wing Options |
just put in the duckworth lites.. Easy to do,though I installed after the
leading edge was on the wing.. Mite be easier on a bench. I drilled holes on
the corners with a unibit to make the cuts easier.. Overall, worked fine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kerr" <kerrjohna(at)mtwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lightening holes in vertical doubler? |
Drawing 6 shows optional lightening holes in the doubler. what are the pros
and cons? Thanks in advance.
John Kerr
90616
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lightening holes in vertical doubler? |
It's lighter if you do it. It's heavier if you don't. If you don't you
have more time to do something else.
I think that is the definative word there.
Barry Pote RV9a
John Kerr wrote:
>
>
> Drawing 6 shows optional lightening holes in the doubler. what are the pros
> and cons? Thanks in advance.
>
> John Kerr
> 90616
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
RV-List Digest List
I saw a post today about UHMW tape and its possible use on brake pedals,
which reminded me that the canopy slider calls for some of that (UHMW
tape). I don't see any on hand. Does it come with the kit or do you
order it separate?
Barry Pote RV9a recovering (slowing) my sanity after 'adjusting' the
canopy frame.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Clark" <dclark(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lightening holes in vertical doubler? |
>Drawing 6 shows optional lightening holes in the doubler. what are the
pros
>and cons? Thanks in advance.
I pros a little lighter (and looks neat), the cons is 2 hours of grinding
and smoothing the holes.
It's got to be good for another 10 kts :-)
Daniel
Seattle, WA
RV-7
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Looking to purchase a 7/9 emp |
| From: | David_Rowbotham(at)dom.com |
11/13/2002 01:51:05 PM
Please let me know if you or anyone you know has a 7/9 emp and preview plan
set for sale.
I'm thinking of becoming a repeat offender.
Thanks,
David Rowbotham
RV-8A - N712CR - 140 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lightening holes in vertical doubler? |
My 2 cents. It is weight vs strength and time. The
VS is common on several models. The RV8 plans I have
do not have an option for the lightening holes, I can
not verify but I don't think the 7 does either so I
assume it means we can spend some time to lighten the
spar a little and lose a little strength. It is not a
great deal of either. While researching it on other
plans I forgot and riveted mine together, so I guess I
decided on keeping the weight.
--- John Kerr wrote:
>
>
> Drawing 6 shows optional lightening holes in the
> doubler. what are the pros
> and cons? Thanks in advance.
>
> John Kerr
> 90616
>
>
>
> Month --
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=====
Ken Moak #90608
Fort Worth, TX
Empennage, wings on order
ken_moak(at)yahoo.com
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical system pictures |
For those that are interested, here are the pictures of my finished electrical system installation. The ideas and designs were derived from the Aeroelectric connection. at www.aeroelectric.com
Here's the pictures...
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/electrical/index.htm
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA - Fiberglass... I thought I was building a metal plane
andy(at)karmy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical system pictures |
Excellent photos Andy, Thanks for publishing them!
Todd Houg
RV-9A Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Karmy
Subject: RV9-List: Electrical system pictures
For those that are interested, here are the pictures of my finished electrical system installation. The ideas and designs were derived from the Aeroelectric connection. at www.aeroelectric.com
Here's the pictures...
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/electrical/index.htm
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA - Fiberglass... I thought I was building a metal plane
andy(at)karmy.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lightening holes in vertical doubler? |
Approximately 3 oz. in weight and about 10 mins. of time. If the
plans/manual suggest lightening, do it if you can.
Gene N557RV (res.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | firewall nose gear access hole |
Do they give us anything to plug the hole after installing the bolt? See drawings
19 and 46A
Steve Dwyer 90219 installing engine mount
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lightening holes in vertical doubler? |
| From: | "Ted Strand" <tstrand(at)strandcentral.com> |
I agree with Gene. It was about 3oz (which means more avionics can be
added latter...). I took me about 15-20 minutes with a fly cutter
in the drill press. It came out looking great.
-Ted-
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene [mailto:gene(at)nvaircraft.com]
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: lightening holes in vertical doubler?
Approximately 3 oz. in weight and about 10 mins. of time. If the
plans/manual suggest lightening, do it if you can.
Gene N557RV (res.)
==
Contribution
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Wow, I can't belive some of the nice things people have been saying about
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Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution to support these
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enables all of these valuable services you've come to expect of the
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Thank you for your Contribution!!
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Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
=====================================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying - II ====================
=====================================================================
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Certainly the [the List] has been a valuable source
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: firewall nose gear access hole |
No. Don't cut a hole. Make a dent, and put the bolt in from the top.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: steve dwyer
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:58 PM
Subject: RV9-List: firewall nose gear access hole
Do they give us anything to plug the hole after installing the bolt? See drawings
19 and 46A
Steve Dwyer 90219 installing engine mount
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: firewall nose gear access hole |
But if by some chance the great denters advise arrived at your door too late...
Then use the 3/4" SS plug that Vans provides in the kit. It kind of looks like
a cap plug you would put in a conduit hole... Hum possibly that's what it is!
Only problem is you will have to goop it up with proseal to hold it in place.
Sorry Gary, I already cut my hole. Vans says cut here, I cut here. Sometimes that
works, sometimes it dosen't!
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:49:56 -0700
>
>No. Don't cut a hole. Make a dent, and put the bolt in from the top.
>
>Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steve dwyer
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:58 PM
> Subject: RV9-List: firewall nose gear access hole
>
>
> Do they give us anything to plug the hole after installing the bolt? See drawings
19 and 46A
>
> Steve Dwyer 90219 installing engine mount
>
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | Re: firewall nose gear access hole |
So I was right I did see a metal plug floating around in one of the kits
that arrived months ago.....think I could find it now so many brown bags
later .. good luck!! Out to the hardware store I go, thanks for the input.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Karmy <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: firewall nose gear access hole
>
> But if by some chance the great denters advise arrived at your door too
late... Then use the 3/4" SS plug that Vans provides in the kit. It kind of
looks like a cap plug you would put in a conduit hole... Hum possibly that's
what it is! Only problem is you will have to goop it up with proseal to hold
it in place.
>
> Sorry Gary, I already cut my hole. Vans says cut here, I cut here.
Sometimes that works, sometimes it dosen't!
>
> - Andy
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:49:56 -0700
>
> >
> >No. Don't cut a hole. Make a dent, and put the bolt in from the top.
> >
> >Gary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: steve dwyer
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:58 PM
> > Subject: RV9-List: firewall nose gear access hole
> >
> >
> >
> > Do they give us anything to plug the hole after installing the bolt?
See drawings 19 and 46A
> >
> > Steve Dwyer 90219 installing engine mount
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Murray <jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com> |
Has anyone mounted a cat whisker style antennae on
their verticle stabilizer? Mine in a Comant 215 and
the hockey puck style base is wider than the top of
the stabilizer. Any ideas?
Jim Murray
90430 finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
Hey Jim,
I purchased the same antenna and started to mount it on the VS. This
required making bump outs in the fiberglass tip to allow the hockey puck to
stick out. I ended up scrapping this idea because of looks. The tail looks
so clean without it. I will most likely mount it under the fuselage and HS
or perhaps get one of the wing tip antennas.
Robert Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Murray" <jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV9-List: cat whisker
>
> Has anyone mounted a cat whisker style antennae on
> their verticle stabilizer? Mine in a Comant 215 and
> the hockey puck style base is wider than the top of
> the stabilizer. Any ideas?
>
> Jim Murray
> 90430 finishing kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
Check this picture out. Additionally, there was an article in a previous
RVator re: this installation.
http://bmnellis.com/FlyIns/TwinCity2000/DCP00972.JPG
Mike Nellis
RV-6 Fuselage N699BM
1947 Stinson 108-2 NC9666K
http://bmnellis.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Murray
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 7:26 AM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: cat whisker
>
>
> Has anyone mounted a cat whisker style antennae on
> their verticle stabilizer? Mine in a Comant 215 and
> the hockey puck style base is wider than the top of
> the stabilizer. Any ideas?
>
> Jim Murray
> 90430 finishing kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | exhaust questions |
The Lyc 0-320 that I have for my RV9A is out of a Cessna 172. The engine
came with all the accessories and exhaust system. Does anyone know if the
exhaust will fit under the RV9 cowl and work without extensive
reconfigurations or do I need to spend $$$ on a new system?
Kim Nicholas
RV9A about to hang the engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust questions |
I have just completed installing an O-320E2D in a 9A and I doubt that a
stock Cessna exhaust system with muffler would fit at all. I used the
Vetterman system supplied by Van's and it worked well. There is a guy in
Colorado making one that looks just like Van's and I understand it is
cheaper. He was at the recent SWRFI. Also, the srock Cessna Alternator is
a little big and will require a "bump" to be added to the cowl. If you have
an O-320H2AD, I understand that some other changes are necessary.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Knicholas2(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV9-List: exhaust questions
>
> The Lyc 0-320 that I have for my RV9A is out of a Cessna 172. The engine
> came with all the accessories and exhaust system. Does anyone know if the
> exhaust will fit under the RV9 cowl and work without extensive
> reconfigurations or do I need to spend $$$ on a new system?
>
> Kim Nicholas
> RV9A about to hang the engine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
I ended up putting my AV-532L VOR antenna near the forward edge of the Tail
Bottom Skin (F-779) just behind the F-710 Bulkhead .
This skin is 0.040 and with an inside doubler makes a very solid mount.
It's easy to reach through the holes in the Aft Deck (F-714) for
installation if the VS and the Elevator Pushrod are not in place.
If anyone is interested, I have some digital pictures I can send out.
Dave
90347
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Murray" <jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV9-List: cat whisker
>
> Has anyone mounted a cat whisker style antennae on
> their verticle stabilizer? Mine in a Comant 215 and
> the hockey puck style base is wider than the top of
> the stabilizer. Any ideas?
>
> Jim Murray
> 90430 finishing kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Schneider" <lschneider39(at)cox.net> |
Have those of you that want to install the cat whiskers on the vertical stab
considered how easy it would be to poke an eye out with this configuration?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <mike(at)bmnellis.com>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: cat whisker
>
>
> Check this picture out. Additionally, there was an article in a previous
> RVator re: this installation.
> http://bmnellis.com/FlyIns/TwinCity2000/DCP00972.JPG
>
> Mike Nellis
> RV-6 Fuselage N699BM
> 1947 Stinson 108-2 NC9666K
> http://bmnellis.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Murray
> > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 7:26 AM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV9-List: cat whisker
> >
> >
> >
> > Has anyone mounted a cat whisker style antennae on
> > their verticle stabilizer? Mine in a Comant 215 and
> > the hockey puck style base is wider than the top of
> > the stabilizer. Any ideas?
> >
> > Jim Murray
> > 90430 finishing kit
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com> |
Hi...
Well Van's shipped the Empennage kit for my RV-9A today, my first kit!
...Browns shipped the tools yesterday.
Wisdom is greatly appreciated, one bothersome question.
Corrosion and corrosion paint, this looks like a pain in ***, mixing two chemical
together spraying and cleaning up a spray gun every few days don't sound very
appealing.
How are all-in-one spray cans? Are they as good?
Thanks
Jim Hosie
Folsom, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New to RV World |
on 11/15/02 5:41 PM, Jim Hosie at jhosie4(at)attbi.com wrote:
> How are all-in-one spray cans? Are they as good?
>
Jim,
As you'll soon learn, there are as many opinions about primers as there are
builders on the list. I tried a two-part epoxy primer at first, but didn't
like the mess. Now I etch each part with Alumaprep so it's good and clean,
then I spray it with Tempo Zinc Oxide primer from a rattle can. Tempo has
made zinc chromate aviation primer for years and zinc oxide is supposed to
be a little less toxic. Is this as good as an epoxy two-part primer?
Probably not. Is it adequate? I hope so. Best of luck with your project and
welcome to the 9A club.
Mark Schrimmer
RV-9A Wings
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to RV World |
Welcome aboard Jim,
On the smaller parts I use a rattle can from NAPA Auto Parts : # 7220
self etching primer. For the larger parts and panels I use Aircraft
Finishing Systems Primer Sealer. www.aircraftfinishing.com an excellent
product.
Good luck with your project!!
Gene N557RV (res) ordered fuselage kit today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
Not unless you're about eight feet tall... The vert is a traditional
place for the vee whisker antenna because it takes advantage of the large
vertical plane of the stabilizer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
If you're building a 9A only basketball players are in danger. The VS tip is
at 8' on mine (emp off, wings off but engine on). I'm sure it will set lower
when finished but it's much higher than a 6A.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on cowl
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: RV9-List: cat whisker
> Have those of you that want to install the cat whiskers on the vertical
stab
> considered how easy it would be to poke an eye out with this
configuration?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to RV World |
I used Dupont's VariPrime for everything.
To meter and mix the two parts, I use disposable 12 cc plastic syringes
available from your local farm equipment supplier for about $.40 ea.
For spraying small things, I use the little "Prevail Sprayers". Prevail
Sprayers have a glass bottle that screws on the bottom of a "power pack"
that provides the force for spraying. You can buy the complete kit (power
pack & bottle), or just the replacement power packs. The local building
supply has these for a few dollars each. I'm about done priming things, and
I have used about a dozen syringes and maybe 6 Prevail Power packs.
Clean up consists of removing the glass bottle and screwing on the lid.
(The mixed primer will keep for several days. You just have to shake it up
well before the next use.) Spraying a couple of tablespoons of Lacquer
Thinner through the suction tube cleans the rest of the equipment. The
whole process takes about 2 minutes.
For the big parts, I used a 16 oz HVLP Gravity Feed Sprayer that operates
off my shop air.
Dave
90347
Finishing Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com>
Subject: RV9-List: New to RV World
>
> Hi...
>
> Well Van's shipped the Empennage kit for my RV-9A today, my first kit!
>
> ...Browns shipped the tools yesterday.
>
> Wisdom is greatly appreciated, one bothersome question.
>
> Corrosion and corrosion paint, this looks like a pain in ***, mixing two
chemical together spraying and cleaning up a spray gun every few days don't
sound very appealing.
>
> How are all-in-one spray cans? Are they as good?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim Hosie
>
> Folsom, Ca
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Schneider" <lschneider39(at)cox.net> |
I didn't realize that a comment could raise such a stir. I really had a tail
dragger in mind and was only making conversation. You will hear no more from
me. good-bye
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: cat whisker
>
> If you're building a 9A only basketball players are in danger. The VS tip
is
> at 8' on mine (emp off, wings off but engine on). I'm sure it will set
lower
> when finished but it's much higher than a 6A.
> Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
> RV-9A: N872RV
> Working on cowl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: cat whisker
> > Have those of you that want to install the cat whiskers on the vertical
> stab
> > considered how easy it would be to poke an eye out with this
> configuration?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "guy" <gvotuc(at)direcway.com> |
Larry,
You won't find a lack of opinion's here ! Try the slider/tip-up, engine or primer
one and prepare for a TON of them :>) That's
what make it so great !
Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Schneider" <lschneider39(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: cat whisker
>
> I didn't realize that a comment could raise such a stir. I really had a tail
> dragger in mind and was only making conversation. You will hear no more from
> me. good-bye
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: cat whisker
>
>
>
> >
> > If you're building a 9A only basketball players are in danger. The VS tip
> is
> > at 8' on mine (emp off, wings off but engine on). I'm sure it will set
> lower
> > when finished but it's much higher than a 6A.
> > Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
> > RV-9A: N872RV
> > Working on cowl
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: cat whisker
> > > Have those of you that want to install the cat whiskers on the vertical
> > stab
> > > considered how easy it would be to poke an eye out with this
> > configuration?
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Stewart" <davestewart(at)globalserve.net> |
| Subject: | seat hinge interference |
The location of seat hinges on aft seat floor (7/8" setback from inbd edge) appears
to put the seatback portion of the hinge in interference with tunnel cover
support at most fwd location. (Vans says moving seatback 1/4" outboard causes
problem at sides & that dwg is correct but I'm dubious). What have others found
& done to correct. Thx
Dave 90252
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
| Subject: | Andy Karmy electrical system photos |
Thanks for sharing your photos. They gave me several good ideas. What are the
quick connectors and what is their source? Are they better than D sub
connectors that Bob Nuckolls is fond of?
Don Piermattei
90411 N192DP
Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
5000 E County Rd 92
Carr, CO 80612
970/568-9047
Fax 970/568-7279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to RV World |
As was mentioned, and previously reported many times, there are many
opinions here.
I have all my wing parts primed except a few small items I'll get soon. I
have only had to mix up paint three times so far. Basically I save stuff up
and do it all at once to minimize the set up times. I use a suctin sprayer
that uses a dixie cup as the paint holder. Clean up takes as long as it
takes to throw the cup away, and run a little lacquer thinner through the
suction tube. No nozzles or other stuff to clean.
I do use spray cans of either zinc chromate or self etching primer for
intermediate small jobs, depending on whether I have already etched it or
not. They work fine. As I was doing the wing skins though I was thinking
"man this would take a lot of cans to do this".
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: New to RV World
>
> on 11/15/02 5:41 PM, Jim Hosie at jhosie4(at)attbi.com wrote:
>
> > How are all-in-one spray cans? Are they as good?
> >
> Jim,
>
> As you'll soon learn, there are as many opinions about primers as there
are
> builders on the list. I tried a two-part epoxy primer at first, but didn't
> like the mess. Now I etch each part with Alumaprep so it's good and clean,
> then I spray it with Tempo Zinc Oxide primer from a rattle can. Tempo has
> made zinc chromate aviation primer for years and zinc oxide is supposed to
> be a little less toxic. Is this as good as an epoxy two-part primer?
> Probably not. Is it adequate? I hope so. Best of luck with your project
and
> welcome to the 9A club.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
> RV-9A Wings
> Irvine, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
Don't take it personally Larry, your question raises some good points. I
would like to hear from a radio technician whether mounting the vee on
bottom will reduce it's effectiveness since it no longer has the benefit of
the large stabilizer plane. Likewise, is there a concern for a "shadow"
from the fuselage when it's mounted up top? I am using a wingtip mounted
NAV antenna (Archer's), although I have some doubts about my decision. I
am also not entirely sure if it will make a good glideslope antenna,
particular since it is offset by a wing length. Antennas are a tricky
thing and there doesn't seem to be a consensus at all. I like to keep my
coax runs as short as possible, yet you can't let the antennas be too close
together. It's a bit of witchcraft any way you look at it.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Alexander <don_shirley(at)propjock.com> |
| Subject: | Richmond VA Builder |
I've been lurking for about six months while I decided between the 9A and the 7A
(it'll be a 9A). The core tools have been acquired and once I pay off some
more college and wedding debts (I was blessed with 4 daughters) I'll be starting
(hopefully early '03). I'm looking for an RV builder (preferably a 9 but
I'm not too picky as they all seem similar) in the Richmond, VA area that's
isn't too far along with the building process. I'd like to observe and ask questions
and would be more than willing to buck rivets (or even mix proseal in
return). And I am an active member of our EAA chapter and so far I've found several
people with finished RVs and one fellow finishing an 8. I figure there
has to be someone within an hour or two of here. If so, feel free to contact
me off list (don(at)propjock.com).
Thanks,
Don
9A Wannabe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | LOC Coming Soon... |
Dear Listers,
This year's List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner. I'll be
posting the LOC on or about December 1. The List of Contributors is a
directory of everyone's name that made a Contribution during this year's
List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of publicly thanking everyone that so
generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these Lists.
Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC! Your friends will be checking no doubt to see if YOU make your
Contribution because THEY did! :-)
Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: seat hinge interference |
Dave.........
Check the archives. We went around about this a while back, and I had to modify
things to fit, but I don't remember it all now.
The most serious interference will be where the top of the seatback meets ( or
misses) the roll bar, if you have a tip-up, or the gusset at the bulkhead on either.
I do know I had to alter the hinge locations on the floor, as well as cut clearance
in the side angles of the seatback to avoid the tunnel cover. Also, I ended
up switching the left and right seatbacks after I thought I had it all figured
out.
I would recommend leaving out the most forward hinge. Having the seatback that
far forward just doesn't work.......Not only would you have to be very very short,
but the seat cushions won't fit in place either.
If you have any more questions, email me off list, and I will help you figure it
out. I can measure mine, and send pictures of what I ended up with, and how
you could do better.
It definitely is a problem area. Omitting that front hinge will help things a
lot.
Also, watch out for the top seatback support. Don't rivet it on until you get
the seat in place, and see how it will fit next to the roll bar, especially on
a tip-up. I had to trim and cut there as well. I think the hinged support piece
should be mounted further inboard, as I recall.
Let me know if you want more specific help.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Stewart
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 8:09 AM
Subject: RV9-List: seat hinge interference
The location of seat hinges on aft seat floor (7/8" setback from inbd edge) appears
to put the seatback portion of the hinge in interference with tunnel cover
support at most fwd location. (Vans says moving seatback 1/4" outboard causes
problem at sides & that dwg is correct but I'm dubious). What have others
found & done to correct. Thx
Dave 90252
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Richmond VA Builder |
Don,
I'm on the other side of the country in California, but my 9A kit is in the
UPS truck.
Be glad to swap mail/pictures if it will benfit us.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Alexander" <don_shirley(at)propjock.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Richmond VA Builder
>
>
> I've been lurking for about six months while I decided between the 9A and
the 7A (it'll be a 9A). The core tools have been acquired and once I pay
off some more college and wedding debts (I was blessed with 4 daughters)
I'll be starting (hopefully early '03). I'm looking for an RV builder
(preferably a 9 but I'm not too picky as they all seem similar) in the
Richmond, VA area that's isn't too far along with the building process. I'd
like to observe and ask questions and would be more than willing to buck
rivets (or even mix proseal in return). And I am an active member of our
EAA chapter and so far I've found several people with finished RVs and one
fellow finishing an 8. I figure there has to be someone within an hour or
two of here. If so, feel free to contact me off list (don(at)propjock.com).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don
>
> 9A Wannabe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Engine decisions / Lycoming Power Curves |
Trying to make some engine decisions before ordering the finish kit has led
me to the Lycoming Operators Manual for the O-320.
Can someone please help me understand the following?
For the O-320-D for example they have a 'Sea Level Power Curve' chart on
p3-26, Figure 3-14. There are two curves, one labelled 'Full Throttle
Horsepower' and the other labelled 'Propellor Load Horsepower'. They both
show 160 bhp at 2700rpm as I would expect. But at any lower rpm they diverge
considerably. Now my questions are these:
Q1. Say I am at full throttle, FP prop, brakes on and the engine were to
achieve 2300rpm. Is it developing about 140bhp or 100bhp - which curve
applies?
Q2. When does the other curve apply?
What is behind my question is do I or do I not want a C/S prop. (Perhaps
want is the wrong word...justify is better!)
Steve
RV9a #90360
N Yorks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild VS Standard Wing Kit |
I am trying to decide on a wing kit. Please help me debate the choices, leaving
out the issues of saving money v saving time, kit back orders with Van's, or
the "satisfaction" of doing it myself, as I am aware of these issues. Thanks
for your help in advance!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net> |
RV 7 , RV 7 List ,
RV 8 , RV 8 list ,
RV 9 , RV 9 List
Well I have been playing with my cad software again. I saw how Paul
Besing made a stand for the fuselage out of an engine stand over at
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/tips.html and that got me thinking.
First I wanted something that would be height adjustable. I also wanted
to have a stand in the back to give a little bit better support. I
didn't show it in these models but the vertical part of the stand will
have a telescoping tube with holes every so often to adjust the height.
My attachment in the back is just a 1/2-20 ball link (www.McMaster.com
PN 60645K26) then I weld a 1 3/4 inch long coupler nut to a 1/4" thick
plate and screw it on to the stud of the ball link. Then drill holes to
match some mounting point on the back of the fuselage. For the front I
just have a 1-1/4" OD tube with a 1" ID, I have a hole for it to pivot
up and down on. Then I split the tube along it's length with another
coupler nut on top with the threads drilled out of one half so you can
use a bolt to clamp down on the 1" OD tube that goes inside, that the
fuselage pivots on. I didn't show all the details of the tubes or angle
or channel or what ever other steel you can find to attach your fire
wall to the mounting plate on the stand, because that will be different
for every plane. Well anyway a picture is worth a thousand words so
before I get to a thousand words just go look at the link below.
http://ip68-12-221-171.ok.ok.cox.net:8088/stands/
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw(at)programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Andy Karmy electrical system photos |
They are Amp Type 2 CPC (Circular Plastic Connectors) you can get them at Mouser,
Digikey, or any good electronics supply house. They use the same gold crimp
pins as the DB connectors, the only advantage is that they have a built in twist
to lock together feature. I used them for quick disconnect usage. I used DB's
where they interfaced with equipment that used DB connectors.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:28:18 -0700
>
>Thanks for sharing your photos. They gave me several good ideas. What are the
>quick connectors and what is their source? Are they better than D sub
>connectors that Bob Nuckolls is fond of?
>
>Don Piermattei
>90411 N192DP
>
>Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
>5000 E County Rd 92
>Carr, CO 80612
>970/568-9047
>Fax 970/568-7279
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seat hinge interference |
I put mine in per the plans... I think, and I had the same alingment problems as
others... So I simply traded left for right and now I can move the hinge eyelets
one position to the left or right and either have the seats closer together
(depending on the co-pilot) or about 1/2" farther apart! works fine either
way in terms of alingment with the seat back supports. Mine is a slider.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Dave Stewart" <davestewart(at)globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:09:15 -0500
>
>The location of seat hinges on aft seat floor (7/8" setback from inbd edge) appears
to put the seatback portion of the hinge in interference with tunnel cover
support at most fwd location. (Vans says moving seatback 1/4" outboard causes
problem at sides & that dwg is correct but I'm dubious). What have others found
& done to correct. Thx
>Dave 90252
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild VS Standard Wing Kit |
Two BIG things here.......do you want to aviod an intimate relationship with Proseal?
And, do you want to do another 22 feet of that nifty double-flush riveted
trailing edge?
The tanks and the ailerons and flaps.......those are the big issues. If I were
doing it again, I might go for the quickbuld wings. But not the fuselage.
Gary
on the gear today, hanging the engine tomorrow.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Brasch
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Quickbuild VS Standard Wing Kit
I am trying to decide on a wing kit. Please help me debate the choices, leaving
out the issues of saving money v saving time, kit back orders with Van's,
or the "satisfaction" of doing it myself, as I am aware of these issues. Thanks
for your help in advance!
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild VS Standard Wing Kit |
Thank you for your feedback!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Quickbuild VS Standard Wing Kit
>
> Two BIG things here.......do you want to aviod an intimate relationship
with Proseal? And, do you want to do another 22 feet of that nifty
double-flush riveted trailing edge?
>
> The tanks and the ailerons and flaps.......those are the big issues. If I
were doing it again, I might go for the quickbuld wings. But not the
fuselage.
>
> Gary
> on the gear today, hanging the engine tomorrow.
>
>
> Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Glenn Brasch
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 8:44 AM
> Subject: RV9-List: Quickbuild VS Standard Wing Kit
>
>
> I am trying to decide on a wing kit. Please help me debate the choices,
leaving out the issues of saving money v saving time, kit back orders with
Van's, or the "satisfaction" of doing it myself, as I am aware of these
issues. Thanks for your help in advance!
>
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
"RV-9A(at)yahoogroups. com" ,
"RV-9a group"
Hi fellow builders;
I'm planning on painting within the month and am soliciting opinions on
my
paint scheme ideas. If you would like to contribute your opinion go to
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/paint_ideas.htm
and vote in the 2 polls there. Or if you really want to get critical you can
e-mail your opinion. Colours may not appear on your screen as intended,
depending on your settings.
Some of you may have voted previously but design has changed and poll has
been reset.
Thanks for your help.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust questions |
Kim, the stock exhaust wont fit in there, also it wont exit the cowl in the
right place like a system made for an RV. I used an O320D2J out of a 172, and
it didn't have an engine driven fuel pump either, I think I spent more
changing the accessory case than I did on the exhaust system. Just the little
push rod alone was about $190. I was glad I bought the vetterman exhaust
though, easy to install and no modifying neccesary. You will no doubt need to
add a blister in the cowl for the starter too.
Kevin
built one, sold it, now thinking about building another one
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott W. Hatten" <ScottHatten(at)columbus.rr.com> |
Other than what Vans recommends for construction. Does anyone have a tool list
for
RV9a construction. Example: (# Clecos need and what sizes). I'm sure someone
has a nice
excel spreedsheet they would share!
Scott Hatten
N6153K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com> |
Scott,
I found Brown Tool Co to have a complete list of tools for the RV's, and
very good prices.
$1189.00 complete
Their number is 1-800-587-3883 Angie was my sales person, very accommodating
and a pleasure to work with.
Jim Hosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott W. Hatten" <ScottHatten(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: RV9-List: TOOL LIST
>
> Other than what Vans recommends for construction. Does anyone have a tool
list for
> RV9a construction. Example: (# Clecos need and what sizes). I'm sure
someone has a nice
> excel spreedsheet they would share!
>
> Scott Hatten
> N6153K
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
I think you will find that all the vendors recommended by Van's have
similar tools and all are high quality. I purchased my tools from
Avery. They had an Oshkosh special discount which certainly helped my
decision to choose them for my source.
I am not far enough along to give you much specific advice yet (finished
empennage except for fiberglass and waiting for the wing kit) , but so
far, I have used just about everything I bought from the Avery-suggested
list (see their web site) for RVs.
One recommendation - if you can afford it get a pneumatic rivet
squeezer. Since you can operate it with one hand, you can do things
with it that you cannot do with a hand squeezer. And it is sooo much
easier on your hands/arms :-) .
Dick Tasker
Scott W. Hatten wrote:
>
>Other than what Vans recommends for construction. Does anyone have a tool list
for
>RV9a construction. Example: (# Clecos need and what sizes). I'm sure someone
has a nice
>excel spreedsheet they would share!
>
>Scott Hatten
>N6153K
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust questions |
Hey Kevin, I thought you were already at work on a plane.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on cowl
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: exhaust questions
>
> Kim, the stock exhaust wont fit in there, also it wont exit the cowl in
the
> right place like a system made for an RV. I used an O320D2J out of a 172,
and
> it didn't have an engine driven fuel pump either, I think I spent more
> changing the accessory case than I did on the exhaust system. Just the
little
> push rod alone was about $190. I was glad I bought the vetterman exhaust
> though, easy to install and no modifying neccesary. You will no doubt need
to
> add a blister in the cowl for the starter too.
> Kevin
> built one, sold it, now thinking about building another one
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Dear Listers,
I got to thinking today that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund
Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List
Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial
equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is
outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of
messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses. I am currently working on the additional ability to post and/or
reply directly from the List Browse interface. More on this upcoming
feature in the next week or so.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where
also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related
Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 9,000,000 hits
each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over
50,000,000 (yes, that 50 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each
year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gunnar Doerwald <gunnar(at)doerwald.net> |
> I'm sure someone has a nice
>excel spreedsheet they would share!
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: another engine question.... |
> My Lyc 0-32 E2D apparently powered a 28 volt system. My RV9A is 14 volt.
> Obviously I need to change the starter (sounds like I need to anyway or
> modify the cowling....) and alternator and volt. regulator. Is there
> anything else that I need to change?
Nope, that's it!
> Also, what starter do you recommend?
Get one of the lightweight starters. They're about $350 or so from most
sources. The 60A alternator kit from Van's is about 1/2 the size and weight
of the one I took off my O-32-E2D. And, the regulator is built in!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: another engine question.... |
Air-Tec in Florida sells the Nissan starters and alternators adapted to fit
on Lycomings reasonably priced, the alternator I bought was internally
regulated, had 2 internal fans, I think it was 35 amp.
Kevin
> My Lyc 0-32 E2D apparently powered a 28 volt system. My RV9A is 14 volt.
> Obviously I need to change the starter (sounds like I need to anyway or
> modify the cowling....) and alternator and volt. regulator. Is there
> anything else that I need to change?
>
> Also, what starter do you recommend?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kerr" <kerrjohna(at)mtwest.net> |
| Subject: | Misaligned parts-rudder |
in trying to cleco the rudder brace to the bottom rib and the rudder spar, the
pre-drilled holes don't line up like everything else???
Part # 410. Drawing calls for # 710....could that be the problem? It appears that
the brace is about 1/8" too long.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Cloud" <ercouper(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Misaligned parts-rudder |
John,
I called Van's when I did my inventory, the R410 and R710 is the same part
dimensionaly. It it doesn't fit there's something missing in your puzzle.
Did you put the R917 shim between the rudder horn and the spar? Study the
plans and look for something you might have overlooked.
Ralph,
Livermore, CA - Rudder
>
> in trying to cleco the rudder brace to the bottom rib and the
> rudder spar, the pre-drilled holes don't line up like everything else???
>
> Part # 410. Drawing calls for # 710....could that be the problem?
> It appears that the brace is about 1/8" too long.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kerr" <kerrjohna(at)mtwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Misaligned parts-rudder |
Thanks for the response. Talked with Gus at the factory and we could
identify a reason other than ganging tolerances. A new, undrilled horn is on
the way. Using backdrilling techniques it should turn out okay.
Will work on the elevators while waiting.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Cloud" <ercouper(at)flash.net>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Misaligned parts-rudder
>
>
> John,
> I called Van's when I did my inventory, the R410 and R710 is the
same part
> dimensionaly. It it doesn't fit there's something missing in your puzzle.
> Did you put the R917 shim between the rudder horn and the spar? Study the
> plans and look for something you might have overlooked.
>
> Ralph,
> Livermore, CA - Rudder
>
>
> >
> > in trying to cleco the rudder brace to the bottom rib and the
> > rudder spar, the pre-drilled holes don't line up like everything else???
> >
> > Part # 410. Drawing calls for # 710....could that be the problem?
> > It appears that the brace is about 1/8" too long.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Anthony" <bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com> |
Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to introduce myself. Thirty years after earning my private license,
and after taking a long holiday for school, work and family, I'm getting back
into flying with an RV-9A project. I've been lurking here for the last several
months, doing research and getting up the courage to make the financial plunge.
I took the EAA Sportair sheet metal workshop (I highly recommend this for
novices like me) three weeks ago, ordered the tools from Avery on Sunday and
the empennage kit on Monday. Now the adventure begins...
Thanks to all of you who have gone on before. Your wisdom is appreciated.
Bruce Anthony
Rosemount, Minnesota
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
Amazing, your situation sounds exactly like mine! PPL, 30 years of
diversions, then back to it. Didn't know anyone else who took such a
long hiatus.
I am a little ahead of you though, I just finished (except for the glass
tips) my empennage and expect my wing kit shortly.
Email if you have questions, and take a look at some of the RV9 web
sites out there.
Dick Tasker, 90573
Waiting for the wings
Bruce Anthony wrote:
>
>Hi Everyone,
>
>Just wanted to introduce myself. Thirty years after earning my private license,
and after taking a long holiday for school, work and family, I'm getting back
into flying with an RV-9A project. I've been lurking here for the last several
months, doing research and getting up the courage to make the financial plunge.
I took the EAA Sportair sheet metal workshop (I highly recommend this
for novices like me) three weeks ago, ordered the tools from Avery on Sunday and
the empennage kit on Monday. Now the adventure begins...
>
>Thanks to all of you who have gone on before. Your wisdom is appreciated.
>
>Bruce Anthony
>Rosemount, Minnesota
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
Welcome Bruce!
Don't feel bad, it took me 20 years between first solo and private pilot
checkride!
Have you hooked up yet with the MW-VAF (Minnesota Wing of Vans Air Force)?
We're having a meeting this weekend at the Lino Lakes air park. Drop me a
note if you want more details.
I'm building an RV9A in St. Francis, I'd be happy to get together and
compare notes. You're welcome to come up and see my project if you're
interested. I'm about 40 minutes north of Minneapolis. My sorrily out of
date website is at http://www.toddhoug.com.
Keep us updated on your progress.
Todd Houg
N194TH reserved
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Anthony [mailto:bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com]
Subject: RV9-List: New Builder
Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to introduce myself. Thirty years after earning my private
license, and after taking a long holiday for school, work and family, I'm
getting back into flying with an RV-9A project. I've been lurking here for
the last several months, doing research and getting up the courage to make
the financial plunge. I took the EAA Sportair sheet metal workshop (I
highly recommend this for novices like me) three weeks ago, ordered the
tools from Avery on Sunday and the empennage kit on Monday. Now the
adventure begins...
Thanks to all of you who have gone on before. Your wisdom is appreciated.
Bruce Anthony
Rosemount, Minnesota
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | paint scheme, poll results |
Hi fellow builders;
Thanks to everyone who voted. I seems to be fairly popular & the more I
look at it, the more I like it. The bull has won as well, so it's going to
be standing tall & proud at those fly-ins, so everybody will know I'm there.
I've bought the paint and am getting ready to paint soon.
Results of the polls
Do you like this paint scheme ?
Yes, looks great 43
Colours good, scheme bad 2
Scheme good, colours bad 16
It really sucks 8
Total Votes: 69
Do you like the Bull, or should it go?
Keep it 43
Send it out to pasture 27
Total Votes: 70
Thanks to all who voted.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Haywire
> Sent: November 17, 2002 9:06 PM
> To: Rv9-List@Matronics. Com; RV-9A@yahoogroups. com; RV-9a group
> Subject: RV9-List: paint scheme
>
>
> Hi fellow builders;
> I'm planning on painting within the month and am
> soliciting opinions on my
> paint scheme ideas. If you would like to contribute your opinion go to
> http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/paint_ideas.htm
> and vote in the 2 polls there. Or if you really want to get
> critical you can
> e-mail your opinion. Colours may not appear on your screen as intended,
> depending on your settings.
> Some of you may have voted previously but design has
> changed and poll has
> been reset.
> Thanks for your help.
>
> S. Todd Bartrim
> Turbo 13B rotary powered
> RV-9endurance (FWF)
> C-FSTB
> http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>
>
> ---
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
We are quickly approaching the end of November and the official end of the
List Fund Raiser. If you look forward to checking your List email everyday
(and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably
getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each
year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or
even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to
you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a
well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support
YOUR Lists.
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution
thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made
possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
Hi Robert,
Who is your instructor at AFI? Do you like him (or her)? Any comments
apprceiated. If you don't want to go into this via e-mail, I can always give
you a call.
Mark Schrimmer
P.S. Any decision on the Quickbuild vs. slowbuild?
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert" <rscott(at)johnsonmfginc.com> |
Hey Mark,
My instructor at AFI is Ken Stave. You can see his photo on my website.
Ken has a sort of laid back approach and I feel very comfortable with him.
I believe though, he is not taking any new students. I think he is on his
way to flying commercially. If you want I can check for you. There is
another instructor I just took my stage 3 with and his name is Mike. I
don't recall his last name. He was very professional and I felt at ease
with him also. If I continue my instruction and go for my instrument rating
I will probably ask Mike to teach me.
Well, as far as quick verses slow I believe I will go quick wings and slow
fuselage. However, I had some news the other day that might impede my
progress a little. Seems I am going to be a father again! My wife is 8
weeks pregnant so I may get side tracked for a little while. I will
finish!!!!
Talk to ya soon,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV9-List: AFI
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Who is your instructor at AFI? Do you like him (or her)? Any comments
> apprceiated. If you don't want to go into this via e-mail, I can always
give
> you a call.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
>
>
> P.S. Any decision on the Quickbuild vs. slowbuild?
>
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | F-631A - Tip Up Canopy |
The F-631A roll over bar components are a heavy gauge and I can not get the
flanges completely perpendicular to the web. Is this a common problem or am
I worrying about something which is not an issue? Any suggestions as to how
to proceed?
Thanks, Steve.
#90360
N Yorks., UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F-631A - Tip Up Canopy |
Hi, Steve. Those things are a bit of a b*%/#@tch to flute and straighten. I eventually
got mine pretty darn close, and they fit together well. If you don't
get them pretty close, they wouldn't fit the splice piece inside very well.
Keep after them with the fluting pliers and hand seamers.
One thing that helped me was that I had made a set of hand seamers out of a pair
of Vise Grips. The jaws are 1/8 inch thick steel and only about 1 1/2 inches
wide. I'm pretty sure Cleveland and Avery sell something similar ready-made.
You can bend the flanges pretty well with these by laying the web on the table
top and clamping them down, then working a little at a time. I couldn't do
it with the regular, wide pliers -type hand seamers.
Seems like the hardest part for me was getting them to lay flat on the table with
no warp. They are so heavy they don't flute easily, but it can be done.
Speaking of Tip-ups......do you plan to include the guides on the roll bar to keep
the canopy centered as it comes closed? It was in the RVator collection.
Far as I'm concerned they are mandatory. Without them, the plexi will bump the
roll bar just before it is fully closed, and it is bound to crack it eventually.
I can send you photos of mine, or post them on the list.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sampson
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: RV9-List: F-631A - Tip Up Canopy
The F-631A roll over bar components are a heavy gauge and I can not get the
flanges completely perpendicular to the web. Is this a common problem or am
I worrying about something which is not an issue? Any suggestions as to how
to proceed?
Thanks, Steve.
#90360
N Yorks., UK
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Free Gift Shipping Status... |
Dear Listers,
A couple of people have written asking what the shipping status was of
their free List Contribution Gifts. Seemed like some status was in order
and I thought I detail where we're at...
Flight Bag Requests
-------------------
On 11/20/02 I shipped out the first batch of Flight Bag-Only (FBO) gift
requests. I shipped all FBO gift requests I had received from 11/1 to
11/19 except for 3 (Sorry guys!) - I ran out of my first shipment flight
bags! Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com
) is supplying me with another batch flight bags which should arrive in
about 2 weeks.
By the way, these are REALLY nice Flight Bags. Extremely well built and
very professional looking. Folds down into a very small size, but will
hold a huge amount of stuff. If you fly, and you've got a lot of stuff,
they you WANT one of these guys. Surf over to the List Contribution page
for details on how to get one of your own!!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The Flight Bags have been shipped out US Mail Parcel Post in a large, and I
mean LARGE, padded white plastic envelope. According to the Post Office,
worse case delivery time would be 8 days to destinations on the East Coast,
but indicated it would likely take a lot less time.
Archive CDROM Requests
----------------------
The Archive CDROMs will be mastered and burned on or about December 1 and
should ship out shortly there after. Shipping will be US Mail, Media Rate
in a big padded white envelope. The Archive List data included will be up
to November 30th.
Flight Bag and Archive CDROM Requests
-------------------------------------
These combination orders will ship out when the Archive CDROMs are complete
as described above, likely a little after December 1. The Flight Bag and
the CDROM will be shipped together in the same Giant white padded envelope!
Again, I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore for providing
these awesome Flight Bags to support the List Fund Raiser. Andy has gone
way beyond the call of duty with regard to his support of the Lists this
year and to show your gratitude I would ask that you have a look at his web
site and great media offerings. You'll find some excellent deals on some
very useful material. http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution so far this year! Your generosity and kindness is greatly
appreciated. If you've been putting off making a Contribution, now's a
great time show your appreciation in plenty of time to make it onto this
year's List of Contributors AND get your free gift with qualifying
Contribution!!!
List Contribution Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | F-631A - Tip Up Canopy |
Gary - thanks for that! You have encouraged me to go to greater efforts to
make it 'right' before I go to the next step.. Fluting the outer flange will
help, but the inner flange is a case of stretching the metal further than
when it was stamped! Ideas!!
Mine sit very flat on the table and the splice piece - the 2" X 3" piece at
the top - sits very hapilly. It is just that the 'straps ' I don't have the
number to hand that join the front and rear pair of F631A together still
have a slight gap showing between them and the F631A.
wrt the guides on the role bar I have not thought that far forward, and am
not sure what you are referring to. Do you have an Rvator reference date, &
I would be delighted with the pictures. Anything to give the plexi an easy
life is an essential as far as I am concerned. I live in a windy country!
What number are you?
Steve
#90360
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Subject: Re: RV9-List: F-631A - Tip Up Canopy
Hi, Steve. Those things are a bit of a b*%/#@tch to flute and straighten.
I eventually got mine pretty darn close, and they fit together well. If you
don't get them pretty close, they wouldn't fit the splice piece inside very
well. Keep after them with the fluting pliers and hand seamers.
One thing that helped me was that I had made a set of hand seamers out of a
pair of Vise Grips. The jaws are 1/8 inch thick steel and only about 1 1/2
inches wide. I'm pretty sure Cleveland and Avery sell something similar
ready-made. You can bend the flanges pretty well with these by laying the
web on the table top and clamping them down, then working a little at a
time. I couldn't do it with the regular, wide pliers -type hand seamers.
Seems like the hardest part for me was getting them to lay flat on the
table with no warp. They are so heavy they don't flute easily, but it can
be done.
Speaking of Tip-ups......do you plan to include the guides on the roll bar
to keep the canopy centered as it comes closed? It was in the RVator
collection. Far as I'm concerned they are mandatory. Without them, the
plexi will bump the roll bar just before it is fully closed, and it is bound
to crack it eventually. I can send you photos of mine, or post them on the
list.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net> |
Thinking about ordering a wing kit and would like to get the jig set before I do.
The smaller preview plans seem vague. Anyone out there with tips or photos
to help. Also, the plans call for the jig to be attached to the ceiling. My
shop ceiling is very high, safe to assume I don't have to as long as the base
is stable? Thanks in advance. Glenn in Arizona.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Wing Jig |
Glenn,
You may want to get a consensus opinion and also put in a call to Van's
and see what the 'current' thought is. I built the frame work per the
plans, AND am still wondering why. It seems to be that you just need a
couple brackets off a wall, or a tall table, to hold the spar while you
do things to it, and attach things to it. It is nice to be able to get
to both sides, many times. I think you could probably do a good job with
a nice long flat table. If you call Van's, let us all know!
Barry Pote RV9a all canopy holes drilled today!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Wing Jig |
Glen,
You need something to hold the spar so it can be put level. It works well to
have it in some type of frame that will let you jack up the center until you
get one side if the skins on. I finished my top skins on a table but you
really need access to both sides for the bottom skins.
Once one is on, the wing is about as rigid as it is going to get. That is
really a two person job.
My wings came out with 1/64th inch twist.
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL Flying
. It is nice to be able to get
| to both sides, many times. I think you could probably do a good job with
| a nice long flat table. If you call Van's, let us all know!
| Barry Pote RV9a all canopy holes drilled today!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Wing Jig |
I did check with Van's last July and this is what they said:
"The RV-9/9A needs no jigs or fixtures at all, other than a means to
hold the main wing spars at a good working height (standard build
wings). The empennage will cleco together without any fixtures."
So... The wing holding fixture they show can be used or not. Basically anything
that will allow you to work on the wing at a convenient height will do.
Dick Tasker
barry pote wrote:
>
>Glenn,
>You may want to get a consensus opinion and also put in a call to Van's
>and see what the 'current' thought is. I built the frame work per the
>plans, AND am still wondering why. It seems to be that you just need a
>couple brackets off a wall, or a tall table, to hold the spar while you
>do things to it, and attach things to it. It is nice to be able to get
>to both sides, many times. I think you could probably do a good job with
>a nice long flat table. If you call Van's, let us all know!
>Barry Pote RV9a all canopy holes drilled today!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
Glenn,
As others have pointed out, the wing jig really isn't necessary from an alignment
perspective. However, it certainly is convenient to have something to hang
the spars on with easy access to both sides. I built my wing jig as a portable
unit on rollers to help optimize the shop space usage. It's worked out great
and I've rigged it to support both wings at once. It now serves as a portable
wing storage rack while I construct my fuselage.
You can find pictures and detials on my website at http://www.toddhoug.com in the "portable wing jig" section.
Todd Houg
N194TH reserved
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Brasch
Subject: RV9-List: RV-9A Wing Jig
Thinking about ordering a wing kit and would like to get the jig set before I do.
The smaller preview plans seem vague. Anyone out there with tips or photos
to help. Also, the plans call for the jig to be attached to the ceiling. My
shop ceiling is very high, safe to assume I don't have to as long as the base
is stable? Thanks in advance. Glenn in Arizona.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Wing Jig |
Hey Glenn, where in Arizona? We have 2 RV-9A's under construction in Yuma,
one almost done and the other well along. That builder built a roll-around
frame to hold the wing under construction. You don't need a real jig, just
something to hold the thing while you assemble it. I'll get you a picture of
his setup.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on cowl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net>
> Thinking about ordering a wing kit and would like to get the jig set
before I do. The smaller preview plans seem vague. Anyone out there with
tips or photos to help. Also, the plans call for the jig to be attached to
the ceiling. My shop ceiling is very high, safe to assume I don't have to
as long as the base is stable? Thanks in advance. Glenn in Arizona.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Wing Jig |
Look closely at the instructions for building the wing in the jig, it
addresses the importance of preventing a twist from being built in. If I
recall Vans allowed something like 3/32 in twist. The use of plumb bobs
etc.,etc.,etc. are called for and stressed!!!! I dont see how eliminating
building the jig is an option but many of you guys are very clever.
Steve Dwyer 90219
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: RV-9A Wing Jig
>
> Glenn,
>
> As others have pointed out, the wing jig really isn't necessary from an
alignment perspective. However, it certainly is convenient to have something
to hang the spars on with easy access to both sides. I built my wing jig as
a portable unit on rollers to help optimize the shop space usage. It's
worked out great and I've rigged it to support both wings at once. It now
serves as a portable wing storage rack while I construct my fuselage.
>
> You can find pictures and detials on my website at http://www.toddhoug.com
in the "portable wing jig" section.
>
> Todd Houg
> N194TH reserved
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn Brasch
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 3:26 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: RV-9A Wing Jig
>
>
> Thinking about ordering a wing kit and would like to get the jig set
before I do. The smaller preview plans seem vague. Anyone out there with
tips or photos to help. Also, the plans call for the jig to be attached to
the ceiling. My shop ceiling is very high, safe to assume I don't have to
as long as the base is stable? Thanks in advance. Glenn in Arizona.
>
>
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>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Wing Jig |
While it's true that you are trying to build a wing with zero (+/- 3/32")
twist in it, the reason that you don't need a jig is because the twist is
eliminated by the close tolerances in the skin, spar, and rib holes. If you
think about it, the only way you could have twist would be for the spars and
ribs to move around relative to the skin. And that usually happens when
holes are drilled slightly off or they are a little oversize and allow some
movement. The various parts are pre-punched so precisely that I'm not sure
you could even force much twist into the wing if you tried. Therefore what
you need is a fixture that holds the spar, etc. for assembly and allows you
to check for twist before you rivet the skins on. Many of us assemble and
rivet the spars and ribs on a bench since it easier and then hang the
skeleton on the fixture to attach the skins. The skeleton is very flexible
and will sag in the middle so you need to prop that area up but once the
skin is clecoed or riveted on the spar will be as straight and true as the
skin is so again all you have to do is verify that the spar is straight.
Whatever kind of fixture you use should allow for access to both sides,
allow the rear spar to be held so that it's easier to rivet than if it's
flopping around, and allow you to check for twist. Once you rivet the top
skin on the twist won't change.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on cowl
----- Original Message -----
> Look closely at the instructions for building the wing in the jig, it
> addresses the importance of preventing a twist from being built in. If I
> recall Vans allowed something like 3/32 in twist. The use of plumb bobs
> etc.,etc.,etc. are called for and stressed!!!! I dont see how
eliminating
> building the jig is an option but many of you guys are very clever.
> Steve Dwyer 90219
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List FAQs! |
Dear Listers,
I got to looking at the Email List FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) today
and realized that they where miserably out of date. I spent a wad of time
today completely revising them and adding in documentation on all of the
many new features such as the List Browse and Photoshare. Many of the
little-known features are documented in there now, too, so even if you're a
seasoned List veteran, you might want to give it a read. Never know what
you might discover.
At the bottom of this message in the Trailer you will find a new link item
called "List FAQ" with a URL for this specific List. Just click on it and
print it out or read it online.
Don't forget that November is the List Fund Raiser month! The "2002 List
of Contributors" is just days away and I know you'll want to make sure your
name is on it!! Please make your Contribution today to support the
continued operation of these List Services!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
There are only a few days left until the November List of Contributors. I
thought I'd take another opportunity to pass along some of the really nice
things people have been saying recently about the Lists and how much they
mean to them.
If you receive value from the Lists in the form of ideas, assistance,
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entertainment, then won't take a moment to make a Contribution to support
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Secure List Contribution Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
What does the List mean to you? Here's what some of your fellow
contributing List members have said...
------------------------- What Listers Are Saying -------------------------
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...valuable service!
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This list has saved me countless hours of work and worry
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The list continues to be a great resource of information
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Jeff O
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Gift Selection Added - List Fund Raiser! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've just added a great new last minute Gift Selection to this year's List
Fund Raiser line up! I have a very limited number of sets of a wonderful
collection of Aircraft Technical books by Jeppesen entitled "The A&P
Technical Series Book Set". This is a great opportunity to make a generous
Contribution to support the Lists and walk away with a great set of
reference manuals at the same time.
This set of books normally retails for over $117 PLUS shipping, but you can
pick up your set AND make this year's List Contribution for a cool C-note -
that's a $100, by the way! :-) I'm thinking "Great Christmas Gift"...
There's more information on the books and making your Contribution at the
List Contribution web site:
Email List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
We're coming close to the official end of this year's List Fund Raiser and
if you haven't yet made your Contribution, there's still time get your name
on that List of Contributors! The percentage of contributors is kind of
low this year but I'm hoping many of you are just holding out until the
last minute!
I want to thank each and everyone of you that has already made a donation
to support the continued operation and upgrade of these List Services. As
I've mentioned in the past, running these Lists is a labor of love for me
and the hours upon hours of code development, system maintenance, and
upgrades are MY Contribution to support this great resource for Builders
and Flyer's alike. Won't your take a minute and make YOUR Contribution today?
I want to thank you for your support both during the Fund Raiser but also
throughout the year in the form of kind words and moral support. A nice
comment from a List member about how much the lists have helped them is
always a sure way to brighten my day!
Thank you to all!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | It leaks........but where |
I have a very small leak in one of my tanks but I can't find it. The manometer
drops about 4.5" in 24 hours. I pressurize the tanks initially to 1 psi. The
temp now is about 4 degrees higher than yesterday which should cause the level
to rise. I didn't check the barometer. If there was an marked change in barometric
pressures it would change the level also. I used both snoop and a mixture
of dish soap and water but can find no leaks. The tank is now setting on
its end with the sending unit up, I have filled that area with water and there
are no bubbles. I have put a balloon over the filler cap but it doesn't seem
to make any difference if it is on or not.
Any suggestions ? I'm an driving myself nuts!!
Gene N557RV (res) waiting on fuse kit, shipping Feb. 3rd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: It leaks........but where |
Hi Gene,
I recently checked my fuel tanks, first with a manometer and then with fuel.
I leaked air pressure until I put duck tape over the filler caps. I also had
some minor plumbing leaks that were cured with fuel lube.
Good Luck.
Dennis Thomas
finishing flaps
pick up fuselage Jan 20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: It leaks........but where |
Gene, some of the common, and sneaky, places you might find leaks, include
around the filler caps, in the center pin of the BNC connectors (if you're using
capacitive senders), under the attach brackets on back. The rear seam is also
a hot-spot, but I assume you would find that one. You can put some vasilene
or grease on the O-ring of the filler caps and tighten the adjusting nut if you
need to. If the BNC connector is leaking, you'll have to open her up and seal
around the wires. If it's leaking under the attach brackets, you may be able
to seal it from the outside.
Happy hunting... Let us know where you find the dripper...
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ!] "What is my Contribution used for?" |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What is my Contribution used for?", and this is a valid
question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support
enables. It provides for the expensive, business-class, high-speed
Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum performance and
minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular
system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance
possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine and List
Browser. It pays for 14+ years worth of online archive data available for
instant random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing,
developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List
Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and Photoshare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and
your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from
moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer
viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements
about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects
of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List
Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE!
Email List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
This is the last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser. Based on previous
year's percentages of Lister's making a Contribution, this year we are
nearly 40% behind the normal... And I thought all those great gifts would
eke the percentage up past the average a little. Oh well. Maybe people
just don't really mind the flashing banner ads for Viagra, and popups for
X10 minicams...
There's still plenty of time to get your name of the List of
Contributors. I'll probably publish the LOC on Monday night after I
process the checks from the Post Office.
I do want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so
far this year. Your support is greatly appreciated and is what makes the
Lists possible.
How to support your Lists this month: http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Hi Folks,
It is well down the road but I'm trying to decide if I'm going to paint my
own airplane or take it to a professional. I would appreciate any and all
input, even if it is only correct my grammar and spelling.
I have used DuPont's Veriprime primer on some parts so far and find it easy
enough to work with. I bought some of their Centari Acrylic Enamel and plan
to try painting some damaged skins just for practice. Is this material safe
to use with a carbon particle mask? Have any of you used this paint and or
have an information about it, good or bad?
I am painting with a Croix HVLP turbine system which works well but it tends
to apply the paint in a heated state. Is this likely to be a problem?
Obviously I will just need to experiment (it is an experimental airplane) and
see what works but your input will still be helpful.
Dennis Thomas
RV9
wings
fuselage on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene" <gene(at)nvaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: paint question |
DuPont Centari and Emron are both very toxic paints. I would suggest
checking with DuPont for their recommendations. I have heard that Centari
is the lesser of two evils.
As to the heated air the only paint I have had trouble with was Aircraft
Finishing Systems primer sealer. A call to them suggested adding another
length of hose or running the hose thru water to cool it down.
Gene N9557RV (res.) waiting on fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | canopy c660 and c759 help |
Hi guys!
Once again I am nonplused bu the directions and plans. I think they are
wrong. A little help from those that have been there, would be
appreciated.
I was making really great progress in general. I was fitting the c660,
side canopy outside skirt, and its mate, the c759, inside top canopy
skirt. These two items are meant to sandwich the plexiglas, at the top
edge and be riveted to the square tube part of the canopy frame, an inch
or so from their tops.
Page 9-13 03/13/01 preview plans says: "Lay the c759 against the inside
surface of the c660, lining up the forward and top edges of the two
parts." I am having a problem with the word "forward" edge.
If you look at drawing 43, detail e, you can see the small (3/16" notch,
drawing 41), in the c759....the forward edge seems to end at the center
line of the forward canopy frame bow. No way does that equate with
'lining up the c759 and c660 forward edges. Did I miss something?
As an aside, the big notch in the aft end of the c759, what is it for?
I can not see that in any drawing.
Thanks,
Barry Pote....lots of cutting on and holes in the canopy...no cracks
yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com> |
Well, my 9A project was going very well until I picked up the rivet gun.
What is the correct air pressure needed for the gun (3X)?
The bucking bar is making dings and scratches.
The tool kit came with a regulator that I have attached to the gun, it has a max
notation with a clockwise arrow, screwing it in or out doesn't seem to make
any difference. Advise?
Jim Hosie
Folsom Ca
N-9SU (res)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
Jim,
That sounds like one of the little flow regulators that is a basic 1/4 turn
valve. I would expect a regulator to have a pressure gage attached to show
the pressure as you adjust it.
On my 2x gun, I used about 40 - 50 lbs at the compressor regulator. I also
got a second regulator that I put in line about 10 feet back of the gun. I
used the light weight hose that Cleveland sells with their small air
couplers to reduce weight.
You will need to adjust the air pressure so that you are setting the rivet
in about 1-2 seconds or so. 3x guns hit slower but harder so it will be
trial and error. Try settng some rivets in a scrap piece and work out the
settings you need.
To help the bucking bar not slip, try putting some masking tape on the face.
This also works well on a mushroom set. Stops most skipping for me.
Hope this helps a bit.
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL Flying 13.5 hrs now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
Jim
If the bucking bar is doing that much damage, you are running to much
pressure. You should be able to hold the bucking bar in place with two
fingers and let it do it's job. You just need to keep it square with the
skin.
Also check the faces of the bar for dings and scratches. They should be
mirror bright. If not, polish them on the scotchbrite buffing pad.
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
Jim,
If you're getting scratches and dings from the bucking bars, try wrapping
the "un-used" portions with several layers of masking tape as a pad so only
the "active" part is bare. Also, you should be holding the bar so it only
touches the stem of the rivet. It should never touch the sheets. (Holding
the bar "non perpendicular" to the rivet stem is an excellent way to bend
(clinch) a rivet. A proper set rivet has 1/2 the rivet diameter as the
thickness of the Shop Head, which implies the Bucking Bar is also held 1/2
the rivet diameter off the sheets when done.
I run 85# to my 3X Gun, but I use a "Spring Loaded Air Regulator", Page 63
of Brown Aviation Tool Supply, which looks like a "Tee" fitting with a
"click" knob on the Bulkhead of the Tee. This give precise control of the
air flow to the gun, and hence the hammer rate (about 4 clicks between 3/32"
rivets and 1/8" rivets). I never adjust the air pressure at the compressor.
It sounds like you have one of the Brass Air Regulator or perhaps Dynaswivel
Regulator, which are simple "variable orifice flow control" devices and not
really "regulators". I have one of them, but found they were much too
sensitive to adjust with repeatability, so I use it only on my Die Grinder.
They adjust from max to min flow in 1/4 turn.
Dave Nicholson
90347
Finishing Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Riveting
>
> Well, my 9A project was going very well until I picked up the rivet gun.
> What is the correct air pressure needed for the gun (3X)?
> The bucking bar is making dings and scratches.
>
> The tool kit came with a regulator that I have attached to the gun, it has
a max notation with a clockwise arrow, screwing it in or out doesn't seem to
make any difference. Advise?
>
> Jim Hosie
> Folsom Ca
>
> N-9SU (res)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com> |
Thanks Dave, yes I have the "Brass Swivel Regulator" also on page 63.
I can turn the knob forever and it never hits a stop, perhaps it passes
through all settings in one revolution.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Riveting
>
> Jim,
>
> If you're getting scratches and dings from the bucking bars, try wrapping
> the "un-used" portions with several layers of masking tape as a pad so
only
> the "active" part is bare. Also, you should be holding the bar so it only
> touches the stem of the rivet. It should never touch the sheets.
(Holding
> the bar "non perpendicular" to the rivet stem is an excellent way to bend
> (clinch) a rivet. A proper set rivet has 1/2 the rivet diameter as the
> thickness of the Shop Head, which implies the Bucking Bar is also held 1/2
> the rivet diameter off the sheets when done.
>
> I run 85# to my 3X Gun, but I use a "Spring Loaded Air Regulator", Page 63
> of Brown Aviation Tool Supply, which looks like a "Tee" fitting with a
> "click" knob on the Bulkhead of the Tee. This give precise control of the
> air flow to the gun, and hence the hammer rate (about 4 clicks between
3/32"
> rivets and 1/8" rivets). I never adjust the air pressure at the
compressor.
>
>
> It sounds like you have one of the Brass Air Regulator or perhaps
Dynaswivel
> Regulator, which are simple "variable orifice flow control" devices and
not
> really "regulators". I have one of them, but found they were much too
> sensitive to adjust with repeatability, so I use it only on my Die
Grinder.
> They adjust from max to min flow in 1/4 turn.
>
> Dave Nicholson
> 90347
> Finishing Kit
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV9-List: Riveting
>
>
> >
> > Well, my 9A project was going very well until I picked up the rivet gun.
> > What is the correct air pressure needed for the gun (3X)?
> > The bucking bar is making dings and scratches.
> >
> > The tool kit came with a regulator that I have attached to the gun, it
has
> a max notation with a clockwise arrow, screwing it in or out doesn't seem
to
> make any difference. Advise?
> >
> > Jim Hosie
> > Folsom Ca
> >
> > N-9SU (res)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com> |
Larry,
Thanks for the tip with the tape, my regulator was set at 100#, I reduced it
to 75#, I'll try your setting of 50# tomorow.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Riveting
>
> Jim,
>
> That sounds like one of the little flow regulators that is a basic 1/4
turn
> valve. I would expect a regulator to have a pressure gage attached to show
> the pressure as you adjust it.
>
> On my 2x gun, I used about 40 - 50 lbs at the compressor regulator. I also
> got a second regulator that I put in line about 10 feet back of the gun. I
> used the light weight hose that Cleveland sells with their small air
> couplers to reduce weight.
>
> You will need to adjust the air pressure so that you are setting the rivet
> in about 1-2 seconds or so. 3x guns hit slower but harder so it will be
> trial and error. Try settng some rivets in a scrap piece and work out the
> settings you need.
>
> To help the bucking bar not slip, try putting some masking tape on the
face.
> This also works well on a mushroom set. Stops most skipping for me.
>
> Hope this helps a bit.
>
> Regards
> Larry Perryman
> N194DL Flying 13.5 hrs now.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
The Flow Control you are using is just a cheap version of a ball valve with
no off position. It only restricts the flow, it doesn't regulate it.
Get one of the Spring Loaded Air Regulators instead.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hosie" <jhosie4(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Riveting
>
> Thanks Dave, yes I have the "Brass Swivel Regulator" also on page 63.
>
> I can turn the knob forever and it never hits a stop, perhaps it passes
> through all settings in one revolution.
>
> Jim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
> Well, my 9A project was going very well until I picked up the rivet gun.
> What is the correct air pressure needed for the gun (3X)?
> The bucking bar is making dings and scratches.
Wrap the end of your bucking bar with electrical tape. Run a length of
electrical tape down the inside of the rib/bulkhead next to where you will
be setting rivets.
It soulds like your gun is getting large pressure. 3/32 rivets with a 3X gun
should have pressure below 40 lbs. Your regulator could be kaput. Get a good
one. Are you using anything to relieve the line pressure as you back off the
regulator (unscrew the bolt)?
> The tool kit came with a regulator that I have attached to the gun, it has
a max notation with a clockwise arrow, screwing it in or out doesn't seem to
make any difference. Advise?
>
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve dwyer" <stdwyer(at)dreamscape.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy c660 and c759 help |
Barry, You're correct the instructions are not right, they should read aft
edges instead.. I just finished the side skirts and I'm now starting the aft
skirts. I really recommend reading the past RVAITOR where Scott presents a
number of suggestions pretaining to the entire canopy installation he also
mentions several good tips in fabricating the skirts. Keep in touch on your
progress, good luck!!! Steve Dwyer 90219
----- Original Message -----
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV9-List: canopy c660 and c759 help
>
> Hi guys!
> Once again I am nonplused bu the directions and plans. I think they are
> wrong. A little help from those that have been there, would be
> appreciated.
>
> I was making really great progress in general. I was fitting the c660,
> side canopy outside skirt, and its mate, the c759, inside top canopy
> skirt. These two items are meant to sandwich the plexiglas, at the top
> edge and be riveted to the square tube part of the canopy frame, an inch
> or so from their tops.
>
> Page 9-13 03/13/01 preview plans says: "Lay the c759 against the inside
> surface of the c660, lining up the forward and top edges of the two
> parts." I am having a problem with the word "forward" edge.
>
> If you look at drawing 43, detail e, you can see the small (3/16" notch,
> drawing 41), in the c759....the forward edge seems to end at the center
> line of the forward canopy frame bow. No way does that equate with
> 'lining up the c759 and c660 forward edges. Did I miss something?
>
> As an aside, the big notch in the aft end of the c759, what is it for?
> I can not see that in any drawing.
>
> Thanks,
> Barry Pote....lots of cutting on and holes in the canopy...no cracks
> yet.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List Digest Format!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just finished up some awesome code that will completely change your
thinking about how email Digests should work and look! Yeah, I'm kind of
proud of it, that is true... :-)
What you'll be getting in the new List Digest message is the
following: The main message will contain the new text-based index I
introduced a few weeks back. But here's where things get
different... Instead of simply including all of the day's posts in line
within the message, there will now be included two enclosures - one with a
HTML encoded version of the Digests, and another with the usual text-only
version of the Digests.
I think you're really going to like the new HTML enclosure of the
Digests. All of the Indexes at the top are now hyperlinked to the actual
posts and there are hyperlinks at the top of each post that will:
o Take you back to the Index
o Take you to the next post
o Take you to the previous post
o Allow you to respond to the LIST regarding the message
o Allow you to respond directly to the POSTER regarding the message
You'll have to check it out to appreciate the full goodness of the new
format! :-)
The text-only version is basically exactly the same data that has been
normally sent in line within the message.
You'll also note that the filenames of the enclosures are such that they
can be conveniently placed in a personal "archive" directory for future
reference.
Hope you enjoy the new Digest format!!!
Oh, and don't forget about the Fund Raiser! :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | K1100-08 platenuts |
I have just spent a frustrating hour trying to find the platenuts that the
wing hatches attach to, and come to the conclusion that I don't have any and
they were not on the inventory. Could someone please tell me the bag number
they should be in for a final check before I ask VANS for some.
Mine are QB wings though I doubt that makes a big difference - just I need
32 not 48. I havnt seen them used anywhere else on the kit I can think of.
Thanks, Steve.
#90360
N Yorks., UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Newsted" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: paint question |
I've always encouraged builders to give painting a chance. I think by the time
you've come through an entire build, with all the priming, you're fully primed
to spray real paint. I've been a die-hard Dupont fan my entire painting life,
more years than I care to think about. The products are excellent, albeit
expensive. I am using Imron, despite swearing that I'd never use it again
because of its toxicity. I broke old habbits and bought a new Citation
twin-turbo HVLP sprayer/respirator, so I figured I would use the best paint I
could afford, which is Imron. The HVLP gun does indeed spray warm paint, but
you can adjust for that by altering the distance from the surface so it lands
before flashing. Imron is so slow drying anyway, that it really doesn't matter
much. Centauri is cheaper and far eaiser to paint, but doesn't have the
durability of Imron. There are plenty of good videos available showing how to
paint your plane, but you can probably figure it out too as long as you're not
doing anything Picasso would dream of.
Good luck, Gary Newsted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | K1100-08 platenuts |
To Steve Sampson
I built the standard RV-9A wing kit. Bag 1922-1 contained 210 each of K1100-08
platenuts and AN509-8R8 screws. You might check your inventory list for a bag
containing 32 AN 509-8R8 screws and perhaps the platenuts should have been
installed by the QB kit assembler. Just guessing.
Best Regards
Dean Van Winkle
90095
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
Jim.....regarding Smart Plugs.......
I had a set of smart plugs ordered for my 0-320 RV-9A. I attended 3 forums over
the past years at Arlington about the product, and visited with several people
involved in their development.
They work fine, but have 2 drawbacks that caused me to go a different route at
this point:
1. They won't tolerate lead in the fuel. It will deteriorate them just like the
catalytic converter in your car. Until we get our unleaded avgas, or have widespread
availability of mogas at airports, this won't work for me.
2. They are not 100% independent of the electrical system in an air-cooled aircraft
application. The heaters need to be on at very low power settings, or they
cool off and begin to misfire.
That said, they have been in use in several applications for years, and have great
efficiency, negligible emmissions, and are absolutely simple, reliable, and
extrememly light. Failure modes are hard to imagine. The will run on almost
any hydrocarbon fuel.
The engineer who invented them has been running them in his Mazda since the mid-1970's.
They put some significant time on a Comanche using Smart Plugs, and
flew a J-3 Cub on floats a number of hours. Their current major project is to
convert many thousands of portable generators to Smart Plugs for the military,
so they can run them on Jet fuel instead of gasoline. Their Continental 0-200
demo engine mounted on a test stand can be drained of car gas, and filled
with diesel, jet fuel kerosene, etc, and restarted.
They are self-timing, and the only variable for matching a plug to your engine
is the compression ratio. Compression, or combustion chamber pressure, is not
a factor. Only compression RATIO.
Last I heard they were $100 a piece, with wiring harness included.
Gary
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New, NEW List Digest Format... |
Dear Listers,
Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the
new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still,
it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a
little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW
arrangement. Here's how it works now:
o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer.
o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests
will be found at the top of the digest email.
o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email
following the URL Links.
o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before.
o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The
URL for the main digest page is:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest.
o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here.
o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given
o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will
be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top.
Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT
version.
A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were
just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated
that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine,
List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard
Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a
program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78
characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive
transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the
problem any longer either. Woo hoo!
So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the
new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the
URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links,
followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as
before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped
onto the next line.
Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to
get everybody so stirred up over the format change!
The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to
make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com |
by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA76874 for ;
From: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: From: DThomas773(at)aol.com Subject: paint question
I am also a first time painter using a Croix HVLP sprayer. I have finished
both wings and the cockpit and here are some things I have learned.
- Yes the air in the gun is heated. Get the 20' extension hose and the cold
water may help if the outside temp is high.
- Use the slowest reducer you can get for your paint. I use some that is
labeled for use at 75-85 degrees. It will slow drying and allow the paint to
flow longer.
- For my polyurethane paint, which would be similar to Centauri as far as
spraying goes I found the best gun set up was a 1 needle and nozzle, and a 0.5
aircap. Adjust the needle to just fill the nozzle when the trigger is
released, so that you have the needle full open when the trigger is fully
depressed.
- The paint flow is controlled with the aircap, not the trigger. For less
flow screw the cap out, and for more screw it in.
- Adjust the distance to the surface, the speed of the gun movement, and the
paint flow to get a good coverage without sags. This is the artsy crafty part
that will only come with practice. My tendency was to apply too little paint
and to end up with orange peel. I find I end up making 4-6 passes over an area
to fill it up.
Hope this is helpful.
Don Piermattei
90411 N192DP
Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
5000 E County Rd 92
Carr, CO 80612
970/568-9047
Fax 970/568-7279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | K1100-08 platenuts |
Dean - thanks! I will go and look at my inventory list for Bag 1922-1. I am
pretty sure it was not there. They are certainly not installed by the QB
guy. Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dean van winkle
Subject: RV9-List: K1100-08 platenuts
To Steve Sampson
I built the standard RV-9A wing kit. Bag 1922-1 contained 210 each of
K1100-08 platenuts and AN509-8R8 screws. You might check your inventory
list for a bag containing 32 AN 509-8R8 screws and perhaps the platenuts
should have been installed by the QB kit assembler. Just guessing.
Best Regards
Dean Van Winkle
90095
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "guy" <gvotuc(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9 Tail and Wing project for sale |
All,=0D
=0D
Do to changing personal situation...I'm thinking about letting my project
go to another home for now.=0D
It is past the crating stage so this would be a "pick up" only type
transaction. I have tail and wing kit. =0D
Tail is finished. Wing is in the 30-40 % completion stage. Tools,
strobes, lights, both type fuel senders, gauges, Option 6 strobe package,
etc. I might just let the wings go by themselves though. I am In SW PA.
E-mail direct guy(at)votuc.com . Pictures at www.votuc.com (Guys Hobbies)=0D
=0D
=0D
Guy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: K1100-08 platenuts |
had the same probl;em with platenuts.. They were not there in spite of Vans
telling me they were.....So they finally sent me some.. Might try calling in
and negotiating
Rich M. 9A, waiting for fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <jleclercq(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 Tail and Wing project for sale |
How much and what does OD mean
Sincerely,
John LeClercq
guy wrote:
>
> All,=0D
> =0D
> Do to changing personal situation...I'm thinking about letting my project
> go to another home for now.=0D
> It is past the crating stage so this would be a "pick up" only type
> transaction. I have tail and wing kit. =0D
> Tail is finished. Wing is in the 30-40 % completion stage. Tools,
> strobes, lights, both type fuel senders, gauges, Option 6 strobe package,
> etc. I might just let the wings go by themselves though. I am In SW PA.
> E-mail direct guy(at)votuc.com . Pictures at www.votuc.com (Guys Hobbies)=0D
> =0D
> =0D
> Guy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "guy" <gvotuc(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 Tail and Wing project for sale - Sold ? |
=0D
=0D
Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-9 Tail and Wing project for sale - Sold ?=0D
=0D
All,=0D
=0D
I had several mails ten minutes after I posted last night. One gentleman
call this morning from Florida and wants it all. If sale falls through, I'll
re-post. Sounds solid though.=0D
Wish everything I had was so easy to sell. Credit Van's for such a nice
kit. "I'll be back"=0D
=0D
Guy=0D
=0D
The OD was cut and paste garbage......=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9 Tail and Wing project for sale |
How much less tools
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Spencer" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
If this is inappropriate for this board, sorry please delete. Otherwise I have
an extra set (all 6) of the 2001 RVator newsletters for sale. New condition.
$15 including shipping. Contact me at scottaspencer(at)att.net
Thanks
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Spencer" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
SOLD! Thanks to those who contacted me.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Spencer" <scottaspencer(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | W-919 Joint Plate |
I can't find any specific info on the length of the W-919 Joint Plate. I am assuming
that the plates should stop just (1/16) short of touching the radius of
the spar flange.
Thanks
Scott
RV9-A, 90200 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: W-919 Joint Plate |
Yep I had the same question back when... Just make them clear the spar.
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA, Glass Glass, Fiberglass.... :)
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Scott Spencer" <scottaspencer(at)att.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:24:50 -0500
>
> I can't find any specific info on the length of the W-919 Joint Plate. I am
assuming that the plates should stop just (1/16) short of touching the radius
of the spar flange.
>Thanks
>
>Scott
>
>RV9-A, 90200 (Wings)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spring Back Dimple/Dies |
Brief quote on the dimple dies from the Avery catalog "special angled
machined surface, male die has a negative taper of 1 degree, female die has
a + taper of 2 degrees, Angle causes material to bend slightly upward during
forming. After dimpling, the surface "springs back" to a flat surface to
give a better and smoother finish....makes a big difference in the surface
finish after riveting". So they say!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand(at)strandcentral.com>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Spring Back Dimple/Dies
>
> Okay, I give...... What is the difference between the two die types?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spring Back Dimple/Dies |
Yes. As far as I know, all the hand and pneumatic squeezers avalilable accept
the same .187" shank dimple dies and rivet sets. In fact, Avery and Cleveland
squeezers both use pneumatic squeezer yokes.
A "springback" dimple die is machined to make a slightly deeper dimple to compensate
for the springback in the aluminum when it is formed. In other words, it
just makes a crisper, better fitting dimple than a cheaper die which doesn't
take that into consideration.
A full explanation of a springback dimple die is given in the Avery tools catalog.
It really comes down to a matter of quality in materials and accuracy in
the die. Cleveland, Avery, Brown, and others have good quality stainless dies.
Gary in Montana, doing wheel pants.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Strand
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Spring Back Dimple/Dies
Okay, I give...... What is the difference between the two die types?
Will the spring back work with a pneumatic squeeze?
-Ted-
N371N
Working on Elevators
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Hi Folks,
Is the list up and running? I have not seen a post for several days.
Perhaps I got bumped off.
Dennis Thomas
RV-taildragger
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
It's here, you're here... Everyone must be doing their Holiday shopping... or building
like crazy to fly by New Years for the 100 years of flight! :)
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA, Fiberglassing... (quietly)
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: DThomas773(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:11:25 EST
>
>Hi Folks,
>Is the list up and running? I have not seen a post for several days.
>Perhaps I got bumped off.
>Dennis Thomas
>RV-taildragger
>Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leland" <RV9AQB(at)frys.com> |
I'm still here Dennis. Sometimes this list just goes quiet. I've noticed
that the Doug Reeve's RV9 group has also been relatively quiet of late.
Leland (Installing hinges for cowling attachment)
> Hi Folks,
> Is the list up and running? I have not seen a post for several days.
> Perhaps I got bumped off.
> Dennis Thomas
> RV-taildragger
> Wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Well the list is quiet but here is my latest problem!
Just riveted the lower outer skin on the second wing and have quite severe
oil canning on the innermost bay. Archives refer to an informative article
by John Bright on the subject, but I cant find a working address. Anyone
know how to get to it?
Before I start rectification I would like to be up to speed on the subject
so this article and any other advice more than welcome.
Thanks, Steve.
#90360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Hi Steve,
Please keep us posted on your progrees. I am about a week away from bottom
wing skins so I'll be following with interest.
Dennis Thomas
wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leland" <RV9AQB(at)frys.com> |
A friend just put me onto a really neat site that shows all the radar
traffic in the San Francisco bay area. Tune into www.sjc.org, click on the
Airport Flight Tracking System in the upper right hand side of the screen,
then click on the SJC Airport Monitor-Internet Flight Tracking System at the
top of the page. In addition to showing what is in the air right now, you
can look at the archives and view your past flights.
Leland in Pleasanton, California (Wiring the Ray Allen G205 stick grip)
October 18, 2002 - December 12, 2002
RV9-Archive.digest.vol-ah