RV9-Archive.digest.vol-al
August 10, 2003 - October 26, 2003
>
>Has anybody worked out a good location for a Lycoming bearing RV9?
>Reports in the archives detail problems with plugging if the input fuel
>is not filtered, readings that depend on temperature of the unit,
>whether the electric fuel pump is on, and fluctuations if the transducer
>is too close to the mechanical fuel pump. There has been discussion of
>whether a long straight section before the inlet is really needed.
>Leland
>Installing components from the firewall forward kit
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com> |
| Subject: | Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
Hello All,
I went a bit overboard with the countersinking of the rear spar
doublers. No I did not make the countersinks to deep. I simply
countersunk the whole darn thing.
See a photo at http://www.ahyup.com/Countersunk
Now should I countersink the other side? That way my wings would match,
I would not want a heavy wing ;
) or should I buy new parts, or not
worry?
Silly me
Warren
It must be the cats
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Smith" <adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
Hi Warren=0D
=0D
The solution to this problem is if you can not buy from vans is to purchase
the plate aluminum and using the bad one as a template remake the part
again this might be hard to but is is a solution I have used myself when I
have stuffed up which has been a couple of times it was hard work but
successful in the end.=0D
=0D
Cheers=0D
=0D
Warren Smith=0D
Sydney Australia=0D
Building an RV9A myself. =0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com=0D
Date: Monday, 11 August 2003 12:37:39 PM=0D
Subject: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler=0D
=0D
=0D
Hello All,=0D
=0D
I went a bit overboard with the countersinking of the rear spar=0D
doublers. No I did not make the countersinks to deep. I simply=0D
countersunk the whole darn thing.=0D
See a photo at http://www.ahyup.com/Countersunk=0D
Now should I countersink the other side? That way my wings would match,=0D
I would not want a heavy wing ;=0D
) or should I buy new parts, or not=0D
worry?=0D
=0D
Silly me=0D
Warren=0D
It must be the cats=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Hobert" <terhobey(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
Hi Guys,
Question for all, on my wing rear spars, on the 470AD4-5 rivets for the
aileron control plates ( I think 907D and E) I had some trouble with the
rivets bending over while squeezing. No doing the left rear spar I didn't
seem to have that much trouble, but on the right spar I must have bent 7 to
ten over. I finally just squeezed a bit then drove and bucked the rest of
the way. Seemed to get better control driving them anyway. Funny thing is
I tried both my Taco squeezer and one that I had got from ATS when I built
my emp., with the same results. Is it maybe because these rivets on the
plates should be 4.5 instead of 5 or is there some technique that is
escaping me? I kinda remember having this problem some when I built the HS,
but ended up using the rivet gun then also.
Any good suggestions?
Thanks,
Terry 90680 wings
>From: "Warren Smith" <adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au>
>Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler
>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:51:56 +1000 (AUS Eastern Standard Time)
>
>
>Hi Warren=0D
>=0D
>The solution to this problem is if you can not buy from vans is to purchase
>the plate aluminum and using the bad one as a template remake the part
>again this might be hard to but is is a solution I have used myself when I
>have stuffed up which has been a couple of times it was hard work but
>successful in the end.=0D
>=0D
>Cheers=0D
>=0D
>Warren Smith=0D
>Sydney Australia=0D
>Building an RV9A myself. =0D
> =0D
>-------Original Message-------=0D
> =0D
>From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com=0D
>Date: Monday, 11 August 2003 12:37:39 PM=0D
>To: Matronics RV9 List=0D
>Subject: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler=0D
> =0D
> =0D
>Hello All,=0D
> =0D
> I went a bit overboard with the countersinking of the rear spar=0D
>doublers. No I did not make the countersinks to deep. I simply=0D
>countersunk the whole darn thing.=0D
>See a photo at http://www.ahyup.com/Countersunk=0D
>Now should I countersink the other side? That way my wings would match,=0D
>I would not want a heavy wing ;=0D
>) or should I buy new parts, or not=0D
>worry?=0D
> =0D
>Silly me=0D
>Warren=0D
>It must be the cats=0D
> =0D
> =0D
> =0D
> =0D
> =0D
> =0D
> =0D
>=2E
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larry-perryman" <larry-perryman(at)txucom.net> |
| Subject: | Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
Terry,
There are two possible reasons for bending the rivets.
1. The rivets are to long for the application.
2. The squeezer is not square with the rivet.
Either one would cause the problem you are describing.
Regards
Larry Perryman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
Hi Warren,
I do not intend to represent myself as an expert but my experiance has been #
4 rivets are better dealt with , with the rivet gun. I think it takes enough
grunt to squeeze this size rivet with a hand squeezer that it is hard not
twist the tool while your squeezing. I don't have the problem with my pnuematic
squeezer.
Keep on trucking.
Dennis Thomas
RV 9 N164DV (reserved)
Taildragger/Tip-up
firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
Larry,
I agree with both, but would like to add one. If the hole is not the
correct size for the rivet (wallered out) it will bend as well.
Tim
(on the wanna-be list, ex-aircraft mech)
-----Original Message-----
From: larry-perryman [mailto:larry-perryman(at)txucom.net]
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler
Terry,
There are two possible reasons for bending the rivets.
1. The rivets are to long for the application.
2. The squeezer is not square with the rivet.
Either one would cause the problem you are describing.
Regards
Larry Perryman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Hobert" <terhobey(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
Thanks for the tips quys, yeah I figured all those reasons. However, the
holes were drilled #30, I changed rivet dies (cause I though maybe one was
not squared), I even used another squeezer, I purposely made sure to keep
everything square and straight while squeezing slowly. You could almost see
the point at which the rivet would head south! Anyway, I think a length of
4.5 instead of 5 may be the answer. There are not 470AD4-4.5 rivets in the
emp or wing kit, so maybe I should just order a rivet cutter for these
situations? I really think now it is the length, even when driving the
rivets I had to be really careful and controled, they still wanted to bend!
Thanks again All,
Terry wings 90680
>From: "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com>
>Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv9-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RE: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler
>Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:22:24 -0700
>
>
>Larry,
>
>I agree with both, but would like to add one. If the hole is not the
>correct size for the rivet (wallered out) it will bend as well.
>
>Tim
>(on the wanna-be list, ex-aircraft mech)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: larry-perryman [mailto:larry-perryman(at)txucom.net]
>To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler
>
>
>
>
>Terry,
>
>There are two possible reasons for bending the rivets.
>
>1. The rivets are to long for the application.
>
>2. The squeezer is not square with the rivet.
>
>Either one would cause the problem you are describing.
>
>Regards
>Larry Perryman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Countersinking of rear wing spar doubler |
I have had a couple of problems and bought a rivet
cutter from Avery. I found I can use a belt sander to
shorten them just a bit. Use your gauge to make sure
you don't get too short.
Ken
Wings 90508
--- Terry Hobert wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the tips quys, yeah I figured all those
> reasons. However, the
> holes were drilled #30, I changed rivet dies (cause
> I though maybe one was
> not squared), I even used another squeezer, I
> purposely made sure to keep
> everything square and straight while squeezing
> slowly. You could almost see
> the point at which the rivet would head south!
> Anyway, I think a length of
> 4.5 instead of 5 may be the answer. There are not
> 470AD4-4.5 rivets in the
> emp or wing kit, so maybe I should just order a
> rivet cutter for these
> situations? I really think now it is the length,
> even when driving the
> rivets I had to be really careful and controled,
> they still wanted to bend!
>
> Thanks again All,
> Terry wings 90680
>
>
> >From: "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com>
> >Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "'rv9-list(at)matronics.com'"
>
> >Subject: RE: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing
> spar doubler
> >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:22:24 -0700
> >
>
> >
> >Larry,
> >
> >I agree with both, but would like to add one. If
> the hole is not the
> >correct size for the rivet (wallered out) it will
> bend as well.
> >
> >Tim
> >(on the wanna-be list, ex-aircraft mech)
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: larry-perryman
> [mailto:larry-perryman(at)txucom.net]
> >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: RV9-List: Countersinking of rear wing
> spar doubler
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Terry,
> >
> >There are two possible reasons for bending the
> rivets.
> >
> >1. The rivets are to long for the application.
> >
> >2. The squeezer is not square with the rivet.
> >
> >Either one would cause the problem you are
> describing.
> >
> >Regards
> >Larry Perryman
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cautionary on Epoxy mixing cups |
Hi Leland,
Thanks for the heads up. I'm getting close to epoxy time. Just curious. Did
your talk to the folks at A/C Spruce and if so what was their story?
Dennis Thomas
firewall forward
Watsonville,Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cautionary on Epoxy mixing cups |
Yes I did let them know Dennis. Their response is below but I don't know
what to make of it.
Leland
Dear Leland,
I apologize for your inconvenience. Thank you for letting us know and
have
a nice day.
Regards,
Sandra Bryan
Customer Service Department
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty
custsvc(at)aircraftspruce.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cautionary on Epoxy mixing cups |
Sounds kind of like thanks for bothering us, too bad,
so sad. Sincerely
--- Leland wrote:
>
>
> Yes I did let them know Dennis. Their response is
> below but I don't know
> what to make of it.
> Leland
>
>
> Dear Leland,
> I apologize for your inconvenience. Thank you for
> letting us know and
> have
> a nice day.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sandra Bryan
> Customer Service Department
> Aircraft Spruce & Specialty
> custsvc(at)aircraftspruce.com
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cautionary on Epoxy mixing cups |
Hi Leland,
This about what a guy can expect. I'm sorry you had a bad time of it.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
"RV9 Group" ,
My quickbuild fuselage arrived today. That is one big box. $1039 shipping to Ohio
although for some reason Roadway didn't ask me for the money before I left.
I suppose I will still pay them.
Given the size of the bix and no way to get off the truck at my house, I opted
to go get it with a 12' flat bed uhaul trailer. When the Roadway fork truck drivers
looked at the box and at my trailer they shook their head and said "No way".
They weren't even sure they could get it off the dock level onto the ground
down their small ramp from the dock. I assured them given they had never loaded
an aircraft before the technical challenge was both theirs for the asking
and accomplishing it would be something they could tell their grandchildren.
Needless to say in about 10 minutes I had the box with about 4' hanging off the
end of the trailer ready to head home. They even supplied a red tape to hang
off the back to wave off the luney drivers from hitting the box.
The fuselage is now sitting in my basement and the massive amounts of wood from
the crate secured in a dumpster (I had no conceivable use for that much thin
plywood). I did save all the 2x4s and two sheets of the nicest plywood.
On to the inventory.
another great benefit- we like wines so rather then go to the Napa valley again
for vacation we are heading to the Willamette Valley in Oregon to do a week of
wine tasting and sight seeing. Guess whose factory is in the valley and may
just have to be visited during the trip. Don't let on. My wife might think this
vacation isn't just for her.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail (QB fuselage now in the basement - yahoo)
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cautionary on Epoxy mixing cups |
Just another thought on this, I now use 8 oz hot-drink cups from Costco.
They appear to have a plastic liner but it is probably polyethylene and
does not cause any problem. My problem with the waxed cups was probably
exacerbated by my using a fast-cure epoxy which heated up in my hot
garage.
Leland
RV9A Firewall forward kit (waiting for the Lycoming from Van's, which
requires a four month lead)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBreckenridge(at)att.net |
Curt:
You most absolutely assuredly have to visit the birthplace of your bird! I live
quite nearby
and my wife is doing her training at Aurora. The factory is worth the visit and
they are very
kind and quick to give a tour. And, you aren't very far from all the winerys of
which you
speak!
Bruce Breckenridge
RV-10 on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
Curt
Congratulations... I'm jealous.
Yes it is a big box. I brought an RV 6 QB home in the
back of a pickup. It caught some attention.
Well guess I had better go pound some rivets or mine
is going to remain a kit.
Ken
--- Curt Hoffman wrote:
>
>
> My quickbuild fuselage arrived today. That is one
> big box. $1039 shipping to Ohio although for some
> reason Roadway didn't ask me for the money before I
> left. I suppose I will still pay them.
> Given the size of the bix and no way to get off the
> truck at my house, I opted to go get it with a 12'
> flat bed uhaul trailer. When the Roadway fork truck
> drivers looked at the box and at my trailer they
> shook their head and said "No way". They weren't
> even sure they could get it off the dock level onto
> the ground down their small ramp from the dock. I
> assured them given they had never loaded an aircraft
> before the technical challenge was both theirs for
> the asking and accomplishing it would be something
> they could tell their grandchildren.
> Needless to say in about 10 minutes I had the box
> with about 4' hanging off the end of the trailer
> ready to head home. They even supplied a red tape to
> hang off the back to wave off the luney drivers from
> hitting the box.
> The fuselage is now sitting in my basement and the
> massive amounts of wood from the crate secured in a
> dumpster (I had no conceivable use for that much
> thin plywood). I did save all the 2x4s and two
> sheets of the nicest plywood.
>
> On to the inventory.
>
> another great benefit- we like wines so rather then
> go to the Napa valley again for vacation we are
> heading to the Willamette Valley in Oregon to do a
> week of wine tasting and sight seeing. Guess whose
> factory is in the valley and may just have to be
> visited during the trip. Don't let on. My wife might
> think this vacation isn't just for her.
>
> Curt Hoffman
> RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail (QB
> fuselage now in the basement - yahoo)
> Piper Cherokee N5320W
> 1974 TR6
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com> |
In the same boat, I ordered the QB fuselage because I figured I would be
ready to retire before I finished. I also quit one job so I would have
more time. With real estate prices going up I did refinance the house
for some funds. Still have avionics, paint, prop, lighting, and
upholstery to pay for though. I expect the fuselage in December. Whoaa
What a Merry Christmas : ) Having more enthusiasm than common sense I
will probably get myself elected as pres. of the local EAA chapter. I am
going to try and get a club hanger! More work!
Warren Hurd
Slow Quickbuild
90454 Wings (before tanks)
http://www.ahyup.com
If I spent less time on the web...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
I read this thread with mixed feelings. I finished wings last winter and was
looking at a 12 week lead time for a standard build fuselage and 5 to 7 month
lead time for a qiuck build. I went for the standard build and at this point
I'm probably at about the same place I probably would have been on a quick
build. Starting firewall forward. I do have an 6 months work into it however.
Yes, I'm retired and trying to stay full time on the bird.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> |
, ,
| Subject: | New dimpling tool for RV builders-ExperimentalAero |
RV-7/8/9 Builders,
I have developed a new dimpling tool that is easier, faster and safer (on the skins)
then any other tool offered by existing aircraft tool suppliers. I have
designed it to accommodate all the skins used in a RV including the prebent leading
and trailing edge skins. I am in the process of developing a website called
ExperimentalAero.com. On this website you will find innovative tools and
components for your experimental project. In particular I am announcing the DRDT-1
and offering it to those interested. I have listed estimated prices based
on three option scenarios. Please take the time to look at the site, give me
your feedback and let me know which products are of interest. Keep in mind that
the site is a work in progress, so let me know if you find any errors.
Thanks,
Paul Merems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall Forward Odds and Ends |
While waiting for my engine, I started on the Firewall Forward kit and
encountered some problems. These are listed below.
The hole in the firewall for the nose gear bolthead on my Quickbuild is
5/8" too low. I've rechecked the dimensions and the hole is centered
exactly where DWG 19 calls for it. I mentioned it to Gus and he said he
had just talked to a builder whose hole came out dead on. I'm baffled as
to why my hole location is wrong. I suggest that builders mount their
nose gear before drilling a hole that may not even be necessary. This
problem was discussed by listers a few weeks ago.
I also suggest that builders delay making the firewall holes until they
have the throttle, mixture, prop control and carb heat cables in hand
and have decided whether they are going with Van's style feedthroughs
(plastic bushings with ProSeal) or if they are going to use the larger
eyeball feedthroughs of the sort sold by Spruce.
Drawing 24 detailing the Engine Control Bracket (F-746 AFT) shows all
four holes as being 1/2" in diameter. However, the Bowden Carb Heat
Cable needs a 3/8" hole and the Mixture control wants 3/4". (It's easier
making holes larger than smaller.) The Throttle cable use 1/2".
Drawing OP-31 for Van's wiring package shows a voltage regulator in the
schematic and DWG OP-10 shows a 35 Amp breaker. However the Firewall
Forward kit includes 60 Amp alternators having an internal regulator.
The 60 Amp alternator is said to be more reliable. (I bought and
installed the wiring kit before buying the firewall forward kit.)
Anybody want to buy a 35 Amp regulator and breaker for half-price, with
shipping?
The oil breather tube marked FF-706 is actually an FF-705 (Van's only
has one breather).
Leland in Pleasanton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> |
, ,
, "RV10 Group"
| Subject: | ExperimentalAero.com DRDT-1 update |
Gents,
For all that visited my site thank you. I have gotten some good feedback and have
corrected some minor glitches.
I am trying for determine the interest level in the DRDT-1. Before I begin low
volume production I wanted to find out how many builder would buy this product.
To try to keep the costs down I have offered it in three options. The DRDT-1
can be available shortly if there is interest.
This is my form of market analysis.
I am in the final stages of pricing for the MTDS-1 (modular tie down system).
This will allow the builder to have a flush mount configurable tie down system
for the baggage bay.
I will continue to post updates on this newsgroup as things develop.
Thanks for your interest and support,
Paul Merems (ExperimentalAero)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Allen hurn" <hurns-ac(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Johnny Hurn post Msg |
What do I need to do to post a message ?
When I try it comes back with a can not do that story sorry ?
I only want to reply to the RV-9 group.
Hurns-ac(at)comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clay R <clayr_55(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ExperimentalAero.com DRDT-1 update |
OK.. I'll give you some feedback.
I think you said you are an engineer... which I could
have guessed by the product names. (DRDT-1, etc)
You might want to use those model numbers for ordering
only, and come up with a more marketing-friendly name
for the public... like the "Dimple Pro" or "Cargo
Keeper" or something like that.
You also should try to come up with the distinct
advantages of your design.. maybe less stress on the
elbow and shoulder while dimpling, for instance. (I
had a lot of pain in my shoulder during those wing
dimpling months)
--Clay
--- Merems wrote:
>
>
> Gents,
>
> For all that visited my site thank you. I have
> gotten some good feedback and have corrected some
> minor glitches.
>
> I am trying for determine the interest level in the
> DRDT-1. Before I begin low volume production I
> wanted to find out how many builder would buy this
> product. To try to keep the costs down I have
> offered it in three options. The DRDT-1 can be
> available shortly if there is interest.
> This is my form of market analysis.
>
> I am in the final stages of pricing for the MTDS-1
> (modular tie down system). This will allow the
> builder to have a flush mount configurable tie down
> system for the baggage bay.
>
> I will continue to post updates on this newsgroup as
> things develop.
>
> Thanks for your interest and support,
>
> Paul Merems (ExperimentalAero)
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVAWALKER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Forward Odds and Ends |
Leland, read your E-mail on throttle, mixture and carb heat this morning. I
am using the same controls. Is it possible that you could give me the diameters
of the portion of the cables that go through the firewall? This would let me
order firewall shields of the proper size.
I hope that the locations spelled out for these on Van's prints is correct,
on the firewall that is. Mine is a RV 7 and the 7 & 9 are both shown on dwg.
19.
If you are busy I will understand.
Dale Walker, Pa. RV7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Reddish Stall Warner |
Some time ago we discussed on this list the possibility of installing
the vane-type stall warner as sold by Spruce for $80 or so. A number
have been placed on RV6s and are going on RV7s. I inquired as to where
the vane could be placed on an RV9 airfoil and received the response
below. Has anybody else on this list installed one yet?
'Dear Leland
Thank you for your enquiry. As far as we are aware there is not
currently a 9A flying with the stall warner fitted. Hopefully there
should be one in the near future and we will be able to get some data
from that one.
The vane is ground adjustable so placing can be fairly approximate. If
the position was totally wrong then a stainless steel plate on the front
edge does cloak it quite neatly.
Regards
Nigel Reddish'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Insulated firewalls |
Hi Guys,
I'm asking of those who have experiance on any RVs. Should I insulate my
firewall? It seems the stainless firewall is quite thin and surely is going to
transmit a great deal of heat and sound. The material I have found is about .44
pounds per square foot, so it would be a significant weight penalty. It
would be easier now than later but I'm not sure if it's needed or not.
What is your opinions?
Thanks,
Dennis Thomas
wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Insulated firewalls |
YES....For the two reasons you mentioned. #1) NOISE #2) HEAT
Also, as long as you are doing the firewall, don't forget the forward floor.
Those that have bare floors have a much louder cockpit, and if you fly in
one, you can tell a huge difference when you move your feet off of the
floor.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
DThomas773(at)aol.com
Subject: RV9-List: Insulated firewalls
Hi Guys,
I'm asking of those who have experiance on any RVs. Should I insulate my
firewall? It seems the stainless firewall is quite thin and surely is going
to
transmit a great deal of heat and sound. The material I have found is about
.44
pounds per square foot, so it would be a significant weight penalty. It
would be easier now than later but I'm not sure if it's needed or not.
What is your opinions?
Thanks,
Dennis Thomas
wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Insulated firewalls |
Thanks for your reply. Can you tell me what you used for insulation, where
you found it etc.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Forward Odds and Ends |
Dale, my carb heat cable has an OD of 0.19" and the throttle and mixture
cables are 0.27". I have a fixed pitch prop so don't have that cable. I
am waiting for the Spruce feedthroughs. Here are some recent comments on
those feedthroughs from the a post on the Yahoo RV7 list:
a) They have a weird shape (12-sided) that requires two large [crescent]
wrenches to tighten them (at least when tightening the body on the
firewall). Would have been better in my opinion if they were just plain
old
hex shaped. Still easier than other styles, though.
b) They require an odd size...1.15" hole. I guess that's a standard for
3/4" conduit or something. Anyway, I used a 1.125" Greenlee knockout
punch
(also from Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/knockout2.php) and then
enlarged the hole just a tiny bit with a 1/2" sanding drum on a Dremel
tool.
Or just use the right size punch in the first place... 8
)
c) Aircraft Spruce doesn't *really* stock them. It usually takes a few
weeks to get 'em in.
Other than that, I'm happy with my choice so far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall insulation |
I bought all my sound and heat insulation for Skandia-inc.com. Large
selection, all fire-coded and FAA approved. Not cheap, but like a lot of things,
you get what you pay for. Also bought my Confor for the seats there.
Bob Devaney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Cloud" <rv9ralph(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall insulation |
For more information on soundproofing, check this website. It is a
storehouse of information
http://www.soundproofing.org/
Ralph
Livermore
Wings
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobdeva(at)aol.com
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 11:49 AM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall insulation
>
>
> I bought all my sound and heat insulation for Skandia-inc.com. Large
> selection, all fire-coded and FAA approved. Not cheap, but like
> a lot of things,
> you get what you pay for. Also bought my Confor for the seats there.
> Bob Devaney
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | ACS2002 and manifold pressure |
Can anyone tell me if the manifold pressure sensor on the ACS2002 is in the
instrument or can be mounted remotely?
The reason for this is that I am not sure if I need to install the manifold
pressure pipe from the engine to the firewall included in the FWF kit or
not. It would be easiest to take a transducer to a cylinder but perhaps that
is not how it works. Also, is the ACS2002 typical of these engine monitors?
I havnt yet made a final decision as to instrumentation though the ACS is
the way I am leaning.
Thanks, Steve.
#90360
Finish and FWF
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Smith" <adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au> |
Hi Guys=0D
=0D
Horizontal Stabilizer RV9A=0D
I don't know if any one else has came across this in the manual for the RV9a
in section 6 /6-2 in paragraph 8 on this page it says to match drill the
skins to the skeletal structure, enlarging the prepunched 3/32 inch holes
to #40, this I think is a mistake as the rivets supplied for this are exact
for the 3/32 hole if they are drilled out to #40 the rivets will fall
straight through the holes, either I'm missing something or someone at Van's
have goofed.=0D
=0D
The rivets supplied are: AN426AD3-4.=0D
=0D
As I have not drilled these holes as yet and don't intend to until this is
clarified.=0D
=0D
Any comment or help in this regard will be most appreciated.=0D
=0D
Thanks Guys=0D
=0D
Warren Smith=0D
Builder from Sydney, Australia.=0D
adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICK MULLER" <MULLERPHARM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Stabilizer |
Warren,
As another builder from Australia, trust me on this one. It is correct
to drill out the holes to #40. You will have difficulty putting a rivet in
this hole. The rivets expand significantly when you drive them. #40 drill
is 0.098 inches , or 2.45 Ml (to put it into real measurements ;0), or 5/32
of an inch. Check that you really have a # 40 drill bit. I suggest you get
some of the scrap aluminium sheets that Vans ship with the kit, and drill a
3/32 hole. Try putting the rivet in. Then drill it out to #40 and repeat
the exercise. If you still have difficulty, email me off line .
Mick Muller in Central Victoria.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Smith" <adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: RV9-List: RV9A Stabilizer
>
> Hi Guys=0D
> =0D
> Horizontal Stabilizer RV9A=0D
> I don't know if any one else has came across this in the manual for the
RV9a
> in section 6 /6-2 in paragraph 8 on this page it says to match drill the
> skins to the skeletal structure, enlarging the prepunched 3/32 inch holes
> to #40, this I think is a mistake as the rivets supplied for this are
exact
> for the 3/32 hole if they are drilled out to #40 the rivets will fall
> straight through the holes, either I'm missing something or someone at
Van's
> have goofed.=0D
> =0D
> The rivets supplied are: AN426AD3-4.=0D
> =0D
> As I have not drilled these holes as yet and don't intend to until this is
> clarified.=0D
> =0D
> Any comment or help in this regard will be most appreciated.=0D
> =0D
> Thanks Guys=0D
> =0D
> Warren Smith=0D
> Builder from Sydney, Australia.=0D
> adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sargentclt(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Stabilizer |
Great news You are not alone. As I began building my RV7A which is similar
to the RV9 I went through the same doubts as you. Just remember all the holes
Van has drilled are one size too small
by one size. Example the #40 hole you are to drill is actually a #41.
Another reminder for me is the larger the number on the drill bit the small the
hole diameter. And further, the spring depth stops I used reminded me of which
size to use. The gold one is #30 or 1/8 inch and the silver is #40 or 3/32.
Also the clecos are the same color. All of this becomes intuitive very
quickly. But as always use the resources you have. There is not a dumb question,
only dumb answers.
Tad Sargent, finished the emp. and waiting for the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Stabilizer |
Hi Warren,
The advice you are getting is absolutly right. #40 drill for the little
rivets, #30 for the big ones. All the rivets you will need to drive in the kit
are one or the other of these sizes. And yes, if you place a 3/32 rivet in the
hole drilled with a number 40 bit it will seem loose,but will expand to a nice
tight fit when driven.
Good luck and good fun with your project.
Dennis Thomas
wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Murray <jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/22/03 |
I used the ACS2002. I ran a hose to the firewall and
mounted the manifold pressure transducer using
standard fittings.
--- RV9-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be
> found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file
> includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and
> features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file
> includes the plain ASCII
> version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed
> with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-08-22.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-08-22.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> RV9-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri
> 08/22/03: 3
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 11:50 AM - Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall
> insulation (Bobdeva(at)aol.com)
> 2. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall
> insulation (Ralph Cloud)
> 3. 01:02 PM - ACS2002 and manifold pressure
> (Steve Sampson)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Bobdeva(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall
> insulation
>
>
> I bought all my sound and heat insulation for
> Skandia-inc.com. Large
> selection, all fire-coded and FAA approved. Not
> cheap, but like a lot of things,
>
> you get what you pay for. Also bought my Confor for
> the seats there.
> Bob Devaney
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Ralph Cloud" <rv9ralph(at)flash.net>
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall
> insulation
>
>
>
> For more information on soundproofing, check this
> website. It is a
> storehouse of information
>
> http://www.soundproofing.org/
>
> Ralph
> Livermore
> Wings
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of Bobdeva(at)aol.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 11:49 AM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: firewall
> insulation
> >
> >
> >
> > I bought all my sound and heat insulation for
> Skandia-inc.com. Large
> > selection, all fire-coded and FAA approved. Not
> cheap, but like
> > a lot of things,
> > you get what you pay for. Also bought my Confor
> for the seats there.
> > Bob Devaney
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
> Subject: RV9-List: ACS2002 and manifold pressure
>
>
>
> Can anyone tell me if the manifold pressure sensor
> on the ACS2002 is in the
> instrument or can be mounted remotely?
>
> The reason for this is that I am not sure if I need
> to install the manifold
> pressure pipe from the engine to the firewall
> included in the FWF kit or
> not. It would be easiest to take a transducer to a
> cylinder but perhaps that
> is not how it works. Also, is the ACS2002 typical of
> these engine monitors?
> I havnt yet made a final decision as to
> instrumentation though the ACS is
> the way I am leaning.
>
> Thanks, Steve.
>
> #90360
> Finish and FWF
> UK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
James - could the transducer fitted onto the engine itself? Thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Murray
Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/22/03
I used the ACS2002. I ran a hose to the firewall and
mounted the manifold pressure transducer using
standard fittings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Stabilizer |
Depending on who you talk to a 41 or a 40 is right for
3/32 rivet. I have tried both not much difference.
Be sure the bit is really the size you think. I
bought some cheap bits once from Harbor Freight and
they were way off. Cost me about $40 when I drilled a
bolt hole too large and had to remake some parts.
When in doubt measure it with a good pair of calipers.
Vans makes mistakes, but I can tell you I have misread
far more than they have written wrong. Found a lot of
people on the list willing to help. It is a lot
cheaper to ask first.
Good Luck
Ken
Wings 90508
--- Warren Smith wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys=0D
> =0D
> Horizontal Stabilizer RV9A=0D
> I don't know if any one else has came across this in
> the manual for the RV9a
> in section 6 /6-2 in paragraph 8 on this page it
> says to match drill the
> skins to the skeletal structure, enlarging the
> prepunched 3/32 inch holes
> to #40, this I think is a mistake as the rivets
> supplied for this are exact
> for the 3/32 hole if they are drilled out to #40 the
> rivets will fall
> straight through the holes, either I'm missing
> something or someone at Van's
> have goofed.=0D
> =0D
> The rivets supplied are: AN426AD3-4.=0D
> =0D
> As I have not drilled these holes as yet and don't
> intend to until this is
> clarified.=0D
> =0D
> Any comment or help in this regard will be most
> appreciated.=0D
> =0D
> Thanks Guys=0D
> =0D
> Warren Smith=0D
> Builder from Sydney, Australia.=0D
> adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Smith" <adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Stabilizer |
Hi Ken=0D
=0D
Thanks for that help this is why I asked first as there are many builders
out there with more experience in building then me I'm still learning. The
#30 drills are readily available here in Australia but the #40s are only
available from a couple of suppliers so I have been informed.=0D
=0D
Once again thank guys for your invaluable help.=0D
=0D
Cheers=0D
Warren Smith=0D
RV9A builder=0D
Sydney Australia.=0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com=0D
Date: Sunday, 24 August 2003 06:14:25 PM=0D
Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV9A Stabilizer=0D
=0D
=0D
Depending on who you talk to a 41 or a 40 is right for=0D
3/32 rivet. I have tried both not much difference.=0D
Be sure the bit is really the size you think. I=0D
bought some cheap bits once from Harbor Freight and=0D
they were way off. Cost me about $40 when I drilled a=0D
bolt hole too large and had to remake some parts.=0D
When in doubt measure it with a good pair of calipers.=0D
=0D
Vans makes mistakes, but I can tell you I have misread=0D
far more than they have written wrong. Found a lot of=0D
people on the list willing to help. It is a lot=0D
cheaper to ask first.=0D
=0D
Good Luck=0D
=0D
Ken=0D
Wings 90508=0D
=0D
=0D
--- Warren Smith wrote:=0D
> =0D
>=0D
> Hi Guys0D=0D
> 0D=0D
> Horizontal Stabilizer RV9A0D=0D
> I don't know if any one else has came across this in=0D
> the manual for the RV9a=0D
> in section 6 /6-2 in paragraph 8 on this page it=0D
> says to match drill the=0D
> skins to the skeletal structure, enlarging the=0D
> prepunched 3/32 inch holes=0D
> to #40, this I think is a mistake as the rivets=0D
> supplied for this are exact=0D
> for the 3/32 hole if they are drilled out to #40 the=0D
> rivets will fall=0D
> straight through the holes, either I'm missing=0D
> something or someone at Van's=0D
> have goofed.0D=0D
> 0D=0D
> The rivets supplied are: AN426AD3-4.0D=0D
> 0D=0D
> As I have not drilled these holes as yet and don't=0D
> intend to until this is=0D
> clarified.0D=0D
> 0D=0D
> Any comment or help in this regard will be most=0D
> appreciated.0D=0D
> 0D=0D
> Thanks Guys0D=0D
> 0D=0D
> Warren Smith0D=0D
> Builder from Sydney, Australia.0D=0D
> adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>=0D
> Contributions=0D
> any other=0D
> Forums.=0D
>=0D
> latest messages.=0D
> List members.=0D
>=0D
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription=0D
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm=0D
> http://www.matronics.com/archives=0D
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare=0D
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>=0D
=0D
=0D
__________________________________=0D
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Taylor" <Royandjilly(at)btinternet.com> |
I expect this has been discussed before....the Lycoming Reprints book that comes
with the engine says "..most GA aircraft take the CHT off the hottest cylinder
of the four..." (page 50). Those of you flying, if still reading this site,
will have a view on which cylinder that's likely to be...assuming you've got
4 CHT's. I'm only fitting one, so which one is it?
Roy, G-RUVY. FWF at last.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
Great news You are not alone. As I began building my RV7A which is similar
to the RV9 I went through the same doubts as you. Just remember all the holes
Van has drilled are one size too small
by one size. Example the #40 hole you are to drill is actually a #41.
Another reminder for me is the larger the number on the drill bit the small the
The prepunched holes are not #41 - they are smaller. I was cautioned by my technical
adviser for having holes too loose using the recommended Vans method.
Being sceptical of this advice I researched the Mil Spec requirements and indeed
he was correct. The recommended practices I found specified holes to be no
more than .003 oversize. Unfortunately using a #40 drill and a #40 dimple die
gives you holes with far more clearance - .008 to .011 depending on the skin
thickness you're dimpling. I switched to using a #41 drill bit for the skins
in order to get tighter tolerances - about .005.
Does any of this matter? Probably not. As Van's tell you "Build the way we tell
you and you'll have a fine plane". It's very hard to argue with Van's track
record and bear in mind that you can't buy a #41 dimpler which is probably what
is required to meet the .003 tolerances, so every builder has the same holes
you will.
Good luck and fly safe.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Hi Roy,
I'm not an engine guy but I think it is the one closest to the firewall.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com> |
Buy a drill gauge. When I worked in the industry, you could never trust
what was on the bit. I always sorted my bits when I got a new lot of them
in using my drill bit gauge.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Moak [mailto:ken_moak(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV9A Stabilizer
Depending on who you talk to a 41 or a 40 is right for
3/32 rivet. I have tried both not much difference.
Be sure the bit is really the size you think. I
bought some cheap bits once from Harbor Freight and
they were way off. Cost me about $40 when I drilled a
bolt hole too large and had to remake some parts.
When in doubt measure it with a good pair of calipers.
Vans makes mistakes, but I can tell you I have misread
far more than they have written wrong. Found a lot of
people on the list willing to help. It is a lot
cheaper to ask first.
Good Luck
Ken
Wings 90508
--- Warren Smith wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys=0D
> =0D
> Horizontal Stabilizer RV9A=0D
> I don't know if any one else has came across this in
> the manual for the RV9a
> in section 6 /6-2 in paragraph 8 on this page it
> says to match drill the
> skins to the skeletal structure, enlarging the
> prepunched 3/32 inch holes
> to #40, this I think is a mistake as the rivets
> supplied for this are exact
> for the 3/32 hole if they are drilled out to #40 the
> rivets will fall
> straight through the holes, either I'm missing
> something or someone at Van's
> have goofed.=0D
> =0D
> The rivets supplied are: AN426AD3-4.=0D
> =0D
> As I have not drilled these holes as yet and don't
> intend to until this is
> clarified.=0D
> =0D
> Any comment or help in this regard will be most
> appreciated.=0D
> =0D
> Thanks Guys=0D
> =0D
> Warren Smith=0D
> Builder from Sydney, Australia.=0D
> adslf45i(at)tpg.com.au
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
I asked Ken Scott if I could get away with a single CHT and he said no
because these ships are "experimental". There are individual variations
in the baffling which could cause variations in the heating pattern.
Usually, the front two cylinders are the coolest and some builders
install provisions for "air dams" in front of them to better balance the
temperatures. I am installing the Grand Rapids Model 4000 EIS which
provides all four EGTs, CHTs and most other diagnostic transducers for
less than a thousand dollars (plus $375 for a FuelFlo).
Leland in Pleasanton California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Oil pressure port |
I have installed the 45 degree fitting VANS supplied in the back of the
engine facing out and down as instructed and used Bakerseal. Then hung the
engine. Now having connected the hose to transmit the pressure to the
manifold I have had to back of the fitting just a few degrees to ensure
clearance for the hose from the mount. Now it is slightly loose! %&$*%!!
If I take the engine back off I will not be able to get another full
rotation of the fitting since it is very tight just beyond where it is.
QUESTION - How do I ensure this is not going to weep?
Steve
#90360
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil pressure port |
on the last turn and the compound will set up to maintain a non-leak
condition.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: Oil pressure port
>
> I have installed the 45 degree fitting VANS supplied in the back of the
> engine facing out and down as instructed and used Bakerseal. Then hung the
> engine. Now having connected the hose to transmit the pressure to the
> manifold I have had to back of the fitting just a few degrees to ensure
> clearance for the hose from the mount. Now it is slightly loose! %&$*%!!
>
> If I take the engine back off I will not be able to get another full
> rotation of the fitting since it is very tight just beyond where it is.
>
> QUESTION - How do I ensure this is not going to weep?
>
> Steve
>
> #90360
> UK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Taylor" <Royandjilly(at)btinternet.com> |
Leland, thanks ...I'll still stick with the single CHT and follow your advice on
using a rear cylinder, I'm not looking for absolute data, just a good indication
of what's happening while leaning, climbing, descent etc.
Roy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Taylor" <Royandjilly(at)btinternet.com> |
Next, related query....What is likely to be the leanest cylinder to which I should
affix the adjacent (only) EGT.
Thanks, Roy, G-RUVY. ( just hung the engine on, 1 hour, no probs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
> > message posted by: "Roy Taylor"
> Next, related query....What is likely to be the leanest cylinder to which
I should affix the adjacent (only) EGT.
> Thanks, Roy, G-RUVY
I used cylinder #4 for the following reasons;
- it is the rearmost cylinder - to the rear firewall.
- it is specified in the Vans EGT instructions
- it was personally recommended to me for my configuration by Scott at Vans
- although I cool oil off #4 cylinder I heat the cabin off #3 (would seem to
balance out).
BTW: if you're talking instruments & FWF stuff, are you getting "the itch"?
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90+% Complete - Fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ George McNutt ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: George McNutt
Subject: Simple Carb Heat Muff
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A new Email List Photo Share is available:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 180hp installations |
| From: | Rick Smith <ricks3(at)us.ibm.com> |
09/01/2003 03:11:32
There was one -9 described in the RVator that had an O-360 in it. Anyone
have any additional info on that installation? A 180-hp would be a good
alternative to the 160-hp with a constant speed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Russ" <russra(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/31/03 |
This message is to the monitor of this web site. Please change my email
address to russrv9a(at)earthlink.net. Thank you, Ron Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matronics Digest Server" <rv9-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV9-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/31/03
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
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> ----------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu> |
there was a long article in the RVator why they do not recommend the
180hp (I have it scanned, but I do not have the copyright, so I cannot
distribute it). it states that one can easily exceed design limits if
one uses a 180hp engine. yet, upon careful reading, you will notice
that they somewhere state that the limiting factor for the 9a is
flutter. unlike structural failure, my guess is that when flutter
occurs, one can just pull back the throttle.
I am not an aviation engineer, so I do not know what I am talking
about. good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: 180hp engine |
frequently, flutter is a short-lived event. The control surface often departs
the airplane faster than the throttle can be reduced. (Nanoseconds)
>
>
> there was a long article in the RVator why they do not recommend the
> 180hp (I have it scanned, but I do not have the copyright, so I cannot
> distribute it). it states that one can easily exceed design limits if
> one uses a 180hp engine. yet, upon careful reading, you will notice
> that they somewhere state that the limiting factor for the 9a is
> flutter. unlike structural failure, my guess is that when flutter
> occurs, one can just pull back the throttle.
>
> I am not an aviation engineer, so I do not know what I am talking
> about. good luck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 180hp installations |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
09/02/2003 04:44:36 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/02/2003 04:44:36 PM
Rick,
It is NOT recommended by Vans due to there being to much power for the
design load of the wing. There was a long write-up in the RVator soon
after the 9 came out.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
Rick Smith
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
09/01/2003 04:11 AM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: 180hp installations
There was one -9 described in the RVator that had an O-360 in it. Anyone
have any additional info on that installation? A 180-hp would be a good
alternative to the 160-hp with a constant speed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 180hp installations |
As others have indicated, the RVator article talks about max speed etc... I saw
the RV9 at Vans homecomming on Sunday, can't tell what engine it has from the
outside! Here's the key, The pilot indicates that if he had it to do over again
he would go with an 0-320... Why? Weight, every bit of extra weight up front
gives it a much heavier feel on takeoff and landing and nose is harder to keep
off the ground. Ken Scott I think also has flown it and had similar feelings
compared to 129RV.
- Andy
>
>
>There was one -9 described in the RVator that had an O-360 in it. Anyone
>have any additional info on that installation? A 180-hp would be a good
>alternative to the 160-hp with a constant speed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Hmmmm...I'd be VERY carefull with flutter. History shows us (and current
test pilots also) that flutter usually arrives with little to no warning,
and then the "fluttering part" simply exits the aircraft in rapid order!
Flutter is not the simple wing wagging or "twitching" of a control surface,
but a high frequency vibration which is usually very short lived - ending in
a failure of a part. Flutter is rarely something that is noticable until
it's too late, and flutter itself usually results in a structural failure.
Re: 180hp on a -9, I'd say...WHY??? It will already perform at the top end
of it's envelope with a 160hp, and remember that plane was originally
designed with a 118hp engine to start. Kind of like putting a 360 on a
C-150. Yes people have and will do it, but it's probably not the smartest
thing to do. I know this will probably start a flame war, because someone
has the bright idea of "de-rating" a 360, and using the reserve for high
density altitudes, but that's nothing more than rationalizing it to one's
self. These planes are NOT anemic performers anyway, and to avoid being a
statistic, stick somewhat close to the design!
I'll quit ranting, and expect the backlash that is sure to come, but please,
just be careful. Also, get a ride in an RV and you'll see they are just
fine as designed!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Minneapolis
The SteinAir Store @ http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ivo welch
Subject: RV9-List: 180hp engine
there was a long article in the RVator why they do not recommend the
180hp (I have it scanned, but I do not have the copyright, so I cannot
distribute it). it states that one can easily exceed design limits if
one uses a 180hp engine. yet, upon careful reading, you will notice
that they somewhere state that the limiting factor for the 9a is
flutter. unlike structural failure, my guess is that when flutter
occurs, one can just pull back the throttle.
I am not an aviation engineer, so I do not know what I am talking
about. good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 180hp engine |
----- Original Message -----
From: "ivo welch" <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: 180hp engine
>
>
> there was a long article in the RVator why they do not recommend the
> 180hp (I have it scanned, but I do not have the copyright, so I cannot
> distribute it). it states that one can easily exceed design limits if
> one uses a 180hp engine. yet, upon careful reading, you will notice
> that they somewhere state that the limiting factor for the 9a is
> flutter. unlike structural failure, my guess is that when flutter
> occurs, one can just pull back the throttle.
>
> I am not an aviation engineer, so I do not know what I am talking
> about. good luck.
>
Ivo
I am also building an RV-9A. The limit "V" speeds that Van publishes for the
9 and 9A are intended to give a comfortable flutter margin and it is wise to
respect them. While it won't always happen, flutter can lead to
catastrophic structural failure before you could even pull the throttle
back. The Steve Wittman fatal accident comes to mind. Flutter is not
something that anyone would want to casually experience on their airplane.
Dean Van Winkle Retired Aeronautical Engineer and former Flight Test
Engineer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
09/02/2003 05:24:34 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/02/2003 05:24:34 PM
Stein,
I will stand beside you in the flame war. I agree. DO NOT DO IT.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
"Stein Bruch"
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
09/02/2003 10:03 AM
Please respond to rv9-list
To:
cc:
Subject: RE: RV9-List: 180hp engine
Hmmmm...I'd be VERY carefull with flutter. History shows us (and current
test pilots also) that flutter usually arrives with little to no warning,
and then the "fluttering part" simply exits the aircraft in rapid order!
Flutter is not the simple wing wagging or "twitching" of a control
surface,
but a high frequency vibration which is usually very short lived - ending
in
a failure of a part. Flutter is rarely something that is noticable until
it's too late, and flutter itself usually results in a structural failure.
Re: 180hp on a -9, I'd say...WHY??? It will already perform at the top
end
of it's envelope with a 160hp, and remember that plane was originally
designed with a 118hp engine to start. Kind of like putting a 360 on a
C-150. Yes people have and will do it, but it's probably not the smartest
thing to do. I know this will probably start a flame war, because someone
has the bright idea of "de-rating" a 360, and using the reserve for high
density altitudes, but that's nothing more than rationalizing it to one's
self. These planes are NOT anemic performers anyway, and to avoid being a
statistic, stick somewhat close to the design!
I'll quit ranting, and expect the backlash that is sure to come, but
please,
just be careful. Also, get a ride in an RV and you'll see they are just
fine as designed!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Minneapolis
The SteinAir Store @ http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ivo welch
Subject: RV9-List: 180hp engine
there was a long article in the RVator why they do not recommend the
180hp (I have it scanned, but I do not have the copyright, so I cannot
distribute it). it states that one can easily exceed design limits if
one uses a 180hp engine. yet, upon careful reading, you will notice
that they somewhere state that the limiting factor for the 9a is
flutter. unlike structural failure, my guess is that when flutter
occurs, one can just pull back the throttle.
I am not an aviation engineer, so I do not know what I am talking
about. good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 0-360 on an RV-9A |
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
I know this will probably start a flame war, because someone
has the bright idea of "de-rating" a 360, and using the reserve for high
density altitudes, but that's nothing more than rationalizing it to one's
self.
Stein,
Do not take this as a flame. Let me repeat, this is not a flame--it's just a
question from a builder who wants to learn more about this subject.
What's wrong with de-rating an O-360? Cessna did that a few years ago when
they re-introduced the Skyhawk with an 0-360 rated at 160 h.p. Why is this a
bad idea? Since the derated version redlines at something like 2400 rpm
wouldn't you be putting less stress on the engine and maybe enjoy less
vibration and quieter operation than you would if you were getting the same
amount of horsepower from an 0-320?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: 180hp engine |
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
Stein,
I will stand beside you in the flame war. I agree. DO NOT DO IT.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
Larry,
As I mentioned to Stein, this is not a flame, just a question from someone
who would like to learn more on this subject . . .
Aren't the Eggenfeller Subies rated at 165 h.p.? Does this engine push the
9A faster than it can go with a 160 h.p. Lycoming?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> |
, ,
,
| Subject: | Fellow RV builders I need your input/help |
Fellow RV-7/8/9/10 builders,
I need to get some feedback from all of you RV7/8/9/10 builders out there. As some of you know I am in process of developing innovative solutions to help RV builders (http://www.experimentalaero.com/ )I am getting final pricing on the Modular Tie Down System (MTDS-1) and I need feedback on pricing.
The MTDS-1 (http://www.experimentalaero.com/MTDS-1.htm) is a tie down system that uses custom quick release pins and flush mount anchors in the floor, side and back of the baggage bay. With multiple anchor points the owner can configure the tie downs to fit their cargo needs. Since the anchors are flush, the unused anchor points won't interfere with the cargo, boxes can sit flush on the floor and softer baggage won't get hung up. Installation is quick and easy, no special tools required.
The homebuilt/experimental market doesn't command high volumes. In tern it is very
difficult to get volume discounts from vendors. Which means the higher cost
gets passed to the customer. In order for a product to be successful it must
fulfill a need and be priced right. I need to get an understanding from fellow
builders and possible customers how much you would pay for the MTDS-1. I plan
on offering it as single quick release pins, single flush anchors, webbing and
buckles. I believe the common configuration would be two strap assemblies (webbing/buckle
with two release pins) and 6 anchors. This system would cost between
$75-100. What is the maximum amount you would pay for this functionality.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | 0-360 on an RV-9A |
Hi Mark,
No flame taken, in fact you bring up a good point. What would be the
difference??
Well...
#1. The Plane was NOT designed for it.
#2. The 360 is heavier.
#3. Requires a bigger, therefore longer prop.
#4. More Money
#5. More Gas
#6. More Oil Cooler (Bigger)
#7. More Exhaust (Bigger)
#8. Different Baffles
#9. Different Sumps
#10. Differnt Carbs/Fuel servos and positions
#11. Engine Mount considerations?? Strength, Offset, Etc..
#12. Engine Length Considerations
#13. Cowl Modifications----see #12?
#14. Derating isn't a "simple" as it sounds, if you restrict RPM for normal
operation, then you need to re-think prop pitch for normal operation, etc..
#15. Probably a negliable or small difference in performance overall in the
RV9.
#16. The Plane was NOT designed for it.
All of those things may seem trite and easy to "modify", but believe me,
anytime you deviate from the standard, you become your own engineer,
designer, tester, guinea pig, etc.. Having built two of these now, I can
tell you even small things FWF can make for a LOT of time and creative
language.
I agree that Cessna did put a de-rated 360 on a skyhawk, but my point is
they never put one on a C-150, which is what Van's was going after with
the -9.
It would be different if the RV's had problems at high density altitudes,
but the DON'T. All the RV's, even with small engines in them perform
remarkably. I just am trying to figure out why 1000fpm is not good enough
on a hot,high,humid day with a loaded airplane?!?!?! So you might gain
another 250fpm, it's not like your in a slouch of an airplane anyway! I
guess I'm just saying if you really want an O-360, buy a -7. The -9
performs like greased lightning on 160hp, and even at high density altitudes
in hot weather you'll still be far and away above the original 118hp that
Van's designed the thing around anyway!
To me, I'm trying to see the rational for even considering a 360, other than
the seemingly impossible to shake theory that More must Mean Better when it
comes to Cubic Inches. Always remember the laws of diminishing
returns.....this is one of them.
Oh, and yes I don have experience with both. I have 2 RV6's. One with a
screamin AEIO-360, and one with a "baby" 320.
Sorry for the long rant, but I just don't want to see anyone end up a
statistic for no reason.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Schrimmer
Subject: RV9-List: 0-360 on an RV-9A
Stein,
Do not take this as a flame. Let me repeat, this is not a flame--it's just a
question from a builder who wants to learn more about this subject.
What's wrong with de-rating an O-360? Cessna did that a few years ago when
they re-introduced the Skyhawk with an 0-360 rated at 160 h.p. Why is this a
bad idea? Since the derated version redlines at something like 2400 rpm
wouldn't you be putting less stress on the engine and maybe enjoy less
vibration and quieter operation than you would if you were getting the same
amount of horsepower from an 0-320?
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Allen hurn" <hurns-ac(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List; Re: 180hp engine-flutter |
Well I guess I feel I should add a nickel to the pot, Yes I side with sticking
with the 160hp or lower, BUT it is very important to make sure that "all" the
flight controls are balanced after all the (paint nuts and bolts rivets and other
items are added to the flight control surface. This will really help in
keeping the flutter problem out of your aircraft.
For the new guys and gals get a copy of the A&P Airframe book EA-AC 65-15A and
on page 82 to 84 is a good balance methods.
Johnny Hurn A&P 1956 to date
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Smith <ricks3(at)us.ibm.com> |
09/03/2003 06:34:55
Hi Guys thanks for the input on the question about using an O-360. I am
the original poster. The reason I brought it up is because a 0-360 with a
fixed pitch is close to the same weight and definately less expensive that
an 0-320 with a Hartzell maybe $7,000 less when you add the prop, govenor,
cable, etc.
Concerning the speed limits. I would certainly respect the speeds Van
designed for.
I built and flew a RV-6 that weighed 1010 pounds with a 0-360 and a
Sensenich for about 400 hours. It took 2-years of tinkering to get its top
speed at sea level from 195 when built to 210mph. At altitude of course
you always see lower.
So wouldnt the same thing apply to the -9?
Given that there are many RVs flying with 300hp such as the Rockets,
Harmons, etc and they do have -4 wings and tails I believe there is a
slight bit of reserve. Although as a conservative perosn I dont want to
give that away.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: 180hp engine |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
09/03/2003 03:18:35 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/03/2003 03:18:35 PM
Mark,
It depends on the plane. There is one RV-7 doing 150 knots in a normally
aspirated engine with the MT prop. I generally cruse about 160 MPH in my
9A at about 75% or less. If you want to outdo the Lycoming, then you need
the supercharger. In one test at 12k at Oshkosh in the 6, the supercharger
gave an additional 20+ knots average on a two way run.
My best guess is they stack up this way.
Lycoming FP
Subaru with Quinti Prop
Subaru with MT prop
Subaru with Quinti and Supercharger
Lycoming with CS prop
Subaru with MT and Supercharger
Probably less than 20 mph top to bottom difference.
Vibration - Subaru hands down
Fuel economy - about a wash.
This is my assessment of the two for what it is worth.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The 180 hp -9 |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
09/03/2003 03:27:25 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/03/2003 03:27:25 PM
Rick,
One point on the Rockets. They do not have the same wing and tail as the
4. The wing is clipped and the ribs redistributed in the remaining length.
The skins are heavier on both as I recall.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
Rick Smith
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
09/03/2003 07:34 AM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: The 180 hp -9
Hi Guys thanks for the input on the question about using an O-360. I am
the original poster. The reason I brought it up is because a 0-360 with a
fixed pitch is close to the same weight and definately less expensive that
an 0-320 with a Hartzell maybe $7,000 less when you add the prop, govenor,
cable, etc.
Concerning the speed limits. I would certainly respect the speeds Van
designed for.
I built and flew a RV-6 that weighed 1010 pounds with a 0-360 and a
Sensenich for about 400 hours. It took 2-years of tinkering to get its
top
speed at sea level from 195 when built to 210mph. At altitude of course
you always see lower.
So wouldnt the same thing apply to the -9?
Given that there are many RVs flying with 300hp such as the Rockets,
Harmons, etc and they do have -4 wings and tails I believe there is a
slight bit of reserve. Although as a conservative perosn I dont want to
give that away.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com> |
Thought I would add me own two cents to the O-360 thread,
The ONLY reason that I would consider a O-360 in a RV9 would be floats!
Add some big draggy floats and keep the top speed down,
and other associated costs up. Sure would be fun though.
Of course I am putting a O-235 in mine.
I am no enginer.
Warren Hurd
90454 wings
http://ahyup.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bob Olds ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bob Olds
Subject: How to build cheap strobe/tail wingtip lights
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Oldsfolks@aol.com.09.03.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
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Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The 180 hp -9 |
I have refrained from jumping into this fray until I read the comment lumping
the 9 in with the other RV's. Next time your at the factory take a look at
the wing spars that are waiting to be made up into kits. Compare the beef in
the other spars to the size of the 9 spar. Their is a very dramatic difference
in size, with the 9 being appreciatively smaller.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu> |
| Subject: | rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine |
I got permission from vans to repost their article on engine sizes
(flutter/failure):
http://welch.som.yale.edu/n994ks/
then, at the bottom, there is the relevant link.
I do wonder why it does not make sense to go with a 180hp engine and use
the engine reserves only in situation where the TAS is rather low (e.g.,
high altitudes, climbing). Actually, there should be an automatic
system that should reduce throttle in high TAS situations. This should
not be difficult to put together, and could come in handy in many other
situations, too, e.g., dives.
/iaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Brown" <philipbrown(at)onetel.net.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: The 180 hp -9 |
Hi, phil brown from the U,K,here......just read your comment on 9
spars......how do they compare with the others and how do they vary
dimensionally
----- Original Message -----
From: <DThomas773(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: The 180 hp -9
>
> I have refrained from jumping into this fray until I read the comment
lumping
> the 9 in with the other RV's. Next time your at the factory take a look at
> the wing spars that are waiting to be made up into kits. Compare the beef
in
> the other spars to the size of the 9 spar. Their is a very dramatic
difference
> in size, with the 9 being appreciatively smaller.
>
> Dennis Thomas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine |
Again....Why...
Where is everyone getting the idea that this planes even remotely "needs"
this reserve???
Considering the original design was for 118 hp, isn't a %36 increase (160hp)
"reserve" enough??
You need to ask yourselves why did you choose the RV9 to begin with. If you
want one of Van's "Hotrods", build a 7 or 8. The RV9 is a phenomenal
airplane, but it is NOT a 7/8, and was designed as a MUCH different
airplanes.
Also, re: the "rocket" reference about them being the "same" as an RV.
They're NOT. The wings, Fuselage, Tail, Engine Mount, Gear Legs, etc...
have all been mondified and re-engineered. Why do it to a -9??? If you
want a rocket, there are TWO companies selling kits for them.
Sorry to sound caustic, but take a few minutes and look at the mission
design of the airplane. Who told you guys that the RV9 is lacking in
performance on 160hp and NEEDS a reserve anyway? This plane flies
beautifully and like a raped ape on 160hp!
Flame Away!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ivo welch
Subject: RV9-List: rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine
I do wonder why it does not make sense to go with a 180hp engine and use
the engine reserves only in situation where the TAS is rather low (e.g.,
high altitudes, climbing). Actually, there should be an automatic
system that should reduce throttle in high TAS situations. This should
not be difficult to put together, and could come in handy in many other
situations, too, e.g., dives.
/iaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine |
Thought I would throw in a little data for grins...
My RV9A weighs 1034lbs, 160HP Lyc
Sealevel 2 very large people on board... 100ish over gross, 1000fpm climb with
Sensenich FP cruise prop.
Then this last weekend, my Son and I and mostly full fuel were still climbing at
600fpm at 13.5K ft out by Mt Rainier.
I am more than happy with the performance that I am getting
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
>Where is everyone getting the idea that this planes even remotely "needs"
>this reserve???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The 180 hp -9 |
The RV-9 spars are roughly the same size in their external dimension( width,
length etc.), but the heavy aluminum bars riveted to the web, top and bottom,
are about 1/3 smaller. They are as heavy as they need to be to accomplish the
goals and mission of the airplane. They are not designed for an areobatic
airplane or for an airplane with an engine greater than 180 HP.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com> |
| Subject: | rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine |
Andy, is your rv9 painted yet? And do you fly out of Thund?
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Karmy [mailto:andy(at)karmy.com]
Subject: RE: RV9-List: rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine
Thought I would throw in a little data for grins...
My RV9A weighs 1034lbs, 160HP Lyc
Sealevel 2 very large people on board... 100ish over gross, 1000fpm climb
with Sensenich FP cruise prop.
Then this last weekend, my Son and I and mostly full fuel were still
climbing at 600fpm at 13.5K ft out by Mt Rainier.
I am more than happy with the performance that I am getting
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
>Where is everyone getting the idea that this planes even remotely "needs"
>this reserve???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu> |
| Subject: | engine limitation --- isn't it enough? |
hi stein bruch: (what's the first name?) actually, the alternative to
the 9a is not an aerobatic airplane. I got mine because it is easy to
fly, which makes especially IFR a lot simpler. aerobatic maneuvers are
not desired. faster cruise speed is. it is a pity that one cannot buy
a reinforced wing that allows faster speeds.
don't misunderstand me: the RV-9A is a fantastic airplane. I love
mine. I would not eventually sell my RV-9A (planned next summer),
except to get myself eventually an RV-10. but like all airplanes, the
9a has design limitations. it will be different design limitations for
different people. for me, the limit is not the aerobatic nature, but
the top speed.
hi larry: I am glad to hear that others also see IAS of around 160mph.
what is the "supercharger"?
incidentally, the variable prop is not really recommended for the 9a.
there is almost no speed/performance gain for the relatively high cost
in dollars and complexity.
we all fly airplanes that we can, through appropriate maneuvers, permit
to self-destruct. even aside from inappropriate diving, this is what
maneuvering speed is all about. so, a more-hp engine appropriately
redlined and used only in certain conditions is not a quantum leap, just
a little more of a leap. just to be clear: I am an absolute chicken
when it comes to aircraft. I have not even tried any half-way aerobatic
maneuvers with my rv-9a. I do not bank more than 60 degrees. I try to
fly as safely as possible. but, I think I would not consider putting in
a 180hp engine into a 9A to be crazy, appropriately redlined. again, I
think it would be good to have a little device that links IAS to
max-throttle. and, a 160hp is more than fine.
regards,
/iaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine limitation --- isn't it enough? |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
09/04/2003 03:38:44 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/04/2003 03:38:44 PM
Ivo,
My plane has an Eggenfellner Subaru and due to the wide range of engine
speeds(up to 5K) the electric adjustable prop is necessary. A fixed pitch
prop just does not cut it. Since I have no hydraulic system, only lite
weight electric props can be used.
The Eggenfellner package has an option for an Eaton Supercharger to be
added and maintain 32 inches up to 14K feet so the engine puts out rated
HP at altitude. The supercharged planes are seeing about 175 knots(RV-6
and RV-7) or so in high altitude cruse. The boost is limited so the engine
is not pushed to produce above rated HP but will maintain rated HP. There
should be several more customer built planes flying with this option later
this year and more data should be available then. Right now there are
3-9's, 2-7's, and 1-6 flying with the engine and prop combos but there are
about 10 more coming on later this year.
If you want to check it out more, look at www.eggenfellneraircraft.com for
more info.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine |
Paint just slows me down... So no it's not painted yet...
and Yes I am based out of Thun field in Puyallup.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:23:44 -0700
>
>Andy, is your rv9 painted yet? And do you fly out of Thund?
>
>Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Brown" <philipbrown(at)onetel.net.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: The 180 hp -9 |
thanks for the info........while I'm at it ,in the U.K. a stall warning
device has been made mandatory to all vans aircraft due to there being
hardly any pre stall buffet warning.......surely the 9 has a different
airfoil section and should behave differently to the other marks(as there is
not yet any 9,s flying over here the powers that be lump all RVs into the
same basket) how much buffet do YOU get in your 9?
----- Original Message -----
From: <DThomas773(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: The 180 hp -9
>
> The RV-9 spars are roughly the same size in their external dimension(
width,
> length etc.), but the heavy aluminum bars riveted to the web, top and
bottom,
> are about 1/3 smaller. They are as heavy as they need to be to accomplish
the
> goals and mission of the airplane. They are not designed for an areobatic
> airplane or for an airplane with an engine greater than 180 HP.
>
> Dennis Thomas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I find there is warning with only a little buffet but the recovery is rapid
with little altitude loss in straight ahead stalls. Accelerated stalls at
low speed and gross weight but be a different matter.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Brown" <philipbrown(at)onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: The 180 hp -9
>
> thanks for the info........while I'm at it ,in the U.K. a stall warning
> device has been made mandatory to all vans aircraft due to there being
> hardly any pre stall buffet warning.......surely the 9 has a different
> airfoil section and should behave differently to the other marks(as there
is
> not yet any 9,s flying over here the powers that be lump all RVs into the
> same basket) how much buffet do YOU get in your 9?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DThomas773(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: The 180 hp -9
>
>
> >
> > The RV-9 spars are roughly the same size in their external dimension(
> width,
> > length etc.), but the heavy aluminum bars riveted to the web, top and
> bottom,
> > are about 1/3 smaller. They are as heavy as they need to be to
accomplish
> the
> > goals and mission of the airplane. They are not designed for an
areobatic
> > airplane or for an airplane with an engine greater than 180 HP.
> >
> > Dennis Thomas
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com> |
| Subject: | rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine |
It was just a guess... you flew over my house this weekend... I was
cultivating my rocks for my new backyard (Spanaway spuds) and called my wife
out to show her what we would be doing several years from now. I'm just off
160th.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Karmy [mailto:andy(at)karmy.com]
Subject: RE: RV9-List: rv9a llimitations, 180hp engine
Paint just slows me down... So no it's not painted yet...
and Yes I am based out of Thun field in Puyallup.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Pitner, Timothy" <TPitner(at)flowcorp.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:23:44 -0700
>
>Andy, is your rv9 painted yet? And do you fly out of Thund?
>
>Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Brown" <philipbrown(at)onetel.net.uk> |
cheers mate
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Stalls
>
> I find there is warning with only a little buffet but the recovery is
rapid
> with little altitude loss in straight ahead stalls. Accelerated stalls at
> low speed and gross weight but be a different matter.
> Albert Gardner
> RV-9A 872RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Brown" <philipbrown(at)onetel.net.uk>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: The 180 hp -9
>
>
> >
> > thanks for the info........while I'm at it ,in the U.K. a stall warning
> > device has been made mandatory to all vans aircraft due to there being
> > hardly any pre stall buffet warning.......surely the 9 has a different
> > airfoil section and should behave differently to the other marks(as
there
> is
> > not yet any 9,s flying over here the powers that be lump all RVs into
the
> > same basket) how much buffet do YOU get in your 9?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <DThomas773(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: The 180 hp -9
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The RV-9 spars are roughly the same size in their external dimension(
> > width,
> > > length etc.), but the heavy aluminum bars riveted to the web, top and
> > bottom,
> > > are about 1/3 smaller. They are as heavy as they need to be to
> accomplish
> > the
> > > goals and mission of the airplane. They are not designed for an
> areobatic
> > > airplane or for an airplane with an engine greater than 180 HP.
> > >
> > > Dennis Thomas
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu> |
I put a riteangle AoA system into my RV-9A. it was the biggest waste of
all my expenditures. The reason is not that the riteangle does not
work. It does and very nicely.
But the reason why it is a waste of money is that you practially have to
point the 9A at the moon before it stalls, which is not easy to do (it
takes a long while), there is a little buffeting, and the stall itself
is harmless (loss of a little attitude, not much). the 9A is one
amazingly docile and forgiving airplane. if it were certificated, it
would be the perfect airplane for students to learn in. it loves to
fly. it has "almost-glider" characteristics.
has anyone tried to spin? I am chicken, so I have not.
/iaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
During my test phase I have done spin entry both left and right by kicking some
rudder during the stall. I held it just enough to feel the break and entry/start
of rotation then recovered. Easy enough to feel the entry and know that things
are about to get interesting. You can hold it both left and right with rudder
in a deep continued stall easily.
Now for some real fun... At 6000ft I was playing with the dreaded base to final
holding top rudder turn and oposite aileron. That gives you cross controled aileron
& rudder, then pull it into a stall. First as Ivo indicated the stall is
so nose high that you can't help but tell something is wrong long before it
gets real bad. Then at the break with cross controls it takes about 2 seconds
and you are inverted! Yikes. Get's your attention that's for sure.
I asked Vans about spins in the 9 and they said only that they were not recomended
and that they had spin tested to FAR 23 standards for standard category aircraft.
Thus the most they would have to do is 1 turn of a spin and then recovery.
- Andy
>has anyone tried to spin? I am chicken, so I have not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu> |
| Subject: | long avionics views |
Hi chaps: because many of you are still building, maybe some more
flying stories and some avionics opinions will be useful.
I put the dynon EFIS into my revised cockpit. (for anyone who plans to
fly IFR, I think having such a backup system is an absolute-must. do
not trust your life to mechanical gyros alone!) I now flew around with
it for a while. definitely recommended. better than the standard
instruments.
Q: to fly IFR/VFR, in an experimental, the instruments need not be
TSO'ed. so, is the AI/ASI/ALT in the Dynon a legal replacement to fly
IFR/VFR? this is important because it determines whether you can
legally fly when your ordinary AI/ASI/ALT are broken [as just happened
to my ALT].
I also determined that the dynon shows airspeeds that are about 10mph
higher than my ordinary ASI (aircraft spruce; highest-priced non-TSO
asi). because I now have GPS GS, altimeter IAS, and dynon IAS, I could
try to determine how good the airspeed indicators are (taking altitude,
temperature, etc., into account to compare TAS to GS). It appears as if
the errors are not constant over the entire range of airspeeds. At low
airspeeds (say, TAS=100mph), it appears as if the standard altimeter
works ok. The best estimate is 2/3 ASI, 1/3 Dynon. At high airspeeds
(say, TAS=160mph), the Dynon is much more accurate. Actually, this
explains most of my earlier flying concerns: landing behavior as if the
airplane is too fast (it was!) and cruise speeds that are too low
(primarily, faulty indication of IAS). At 10,000' altitude and 2350rpm,
I am getting mid 170mph TAS/GS. This is about 10mph slower than it
could be, but given that I am not flying under ideal conditions [when
measured by Vans], is probably reasonably ok.
Some more avionics opinions:
$3k BK KMD-150: best deal for MFD. very easy to use.
$2.5k Dynon EFIS: superb.
$2k Trutrak Altrak: altitude hold system. the rv-9a loses or gains
altitude
very quickly. it is a very safe plane, but not very
stable in
this respect. so, if you want to be able to hold
altitude,
eg, in an IFR environment, this is well worth it.
$2k Navaid autopilot: affordable, replaces ball, built-in GPS steering.
$7k GNS-430+indicator necessary for IFR flight IMHO. GNS-530 seems way
overpriced.
$.3k CO Guardian don't be stupid. put one into your airplane.
$1k Garmin audio: recommended. ok.
$1k garmin solid state transponder: highly recommended. please
avoid the old tube ones.
add in switches, ordinary instruments, collision avoidance, good brakers
+ internals, an automobile CD player, and you will spend $25k w/o buying
the *really* expensive stuff. it is amazing how quickly money for
avionics can add up. still, it is not the plane that is worth it, but
my life that is worth it.
what would I do differently now?
- a good, but more expensive alternative to my two separate autopilots
would be a more expensive trutrak system w/ GPS steering.
- a CNX-80 would be a good but more expensive alternative to the
GNS-430.
- an MX-20 w/ the CNX-80 would be a good idea, too. again, twice the
price of the KMD-150.
together, the first three gadgets would add another $10k to the price of
the avionics.
- there may be better collision warning devices now. I have not seen
them in action, though. I would avoid the riteangle stall warning.
so, in retrospect, I think I pretty much bought the correct avionics.
(in fact, because I may eventually be selling my RV-9A, I am wondering
whether I should recycle most of these avionics in order to reduce the
RV-9A price: I am planning to put almost the same avionics into my next
plane (an RV-10). does anyone have a good idea of what percentage of
avionics one usually recaptures in the resale price?)
regards,
/iaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
> At the break with cross controls it takes about 2 seconds and you are
inverted! Yikes.
Andy,
Yikes? More like "Oh @#$*&@!&#$!" How did you get back to straight and
level? Have you had aerobatic training?
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
Training... Hum, that would be a good idea. I have done spin training during my
PPSEL work way back when. Just upright spins in a 172 mind you.
As for what to do when inverted, just roll it on around. You are going slow at
this point and end up fairly nose low so don't delay in bringing it back up. You
DO NOT want to split S out of this situation!
So, now that we know what happens in this case, it's most likely best for us all
to avoid this certian combination of control inputs unless we are ready to deal
with the results!
Good luck out there, and of course keep the dirty side down (mostly)...
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 09:30:37 -0700
>
>
>> At the break with cross controls it takes about 2 seconds and you are
>inverted! Yikes.
>
>Andy,
>
>Yikes? More like "Oh @#$*&@!&#$!" How did you get back to straight and
>level? Have you had aerobatic training?
>
>Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca> |
"'rv9-list(at)matronics.com'" ,
"'wing(at)vansairforce.org'"
| Subject: | First flight of C-FSTB |
I'm very pleased to announce that RV-9endurance, kit # 90113, has
now become an airplane. Power is supplied by a Turbocharged 13B Mazda rotary
engine, with a 76" 3-blade IVO Magnum with electronic constant speed
governor. It was built from a standard kit and engine was rebuilt myself
from a junkyard engine. Everything was done myself, including paint &
upholstery. I'm extremely pleased with and proud of the results.
The plane fly's exactly as I remembered from my demo flight 3 years
ago. Very easy to fly. The engine is very smooth & quiet. So far I've not
used any boost at all as we've been very conservative with it.
As I'm a student pilot, I now am looking forward to finishing my
training in my own plane. Test pilot for the first 3 flights is an
experienced commercial bush pilot, however as he was unfamiliar with the
rotary engine (but very interested in it), I was along as flight engineer.
This worked very well as all he had to do was fly the plane. All other
duties were my responsibility.
As my test pilot/instructor has had to return to his regular flying
job, testing is on hold for a week. I'm still in the "Holy ****, I can't
believe it's flying" phase, so next flights will begin to put the plane
through it's paces.
As every first flight report before has stated, It really is worth
all the sacrifices and hard work, so keep on pounding! I found the building
process to be tremendously enjoyable, particularly the FWF development of an
alternative engine, however it sure is pretty damn cool to be flying it now!
:-)
Thanks to the FlyRotary group and the AeroElectric list for all the
knowledge that is freely shared.
The adventure continues......
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight of C-FSTB |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
09/08/2003 11:54:36 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/08/2003 11:54:36 PM
Todd,
Congratulations on a massive undertaking. Now the fun begins. Now all you
have to do is post some pictures of your plane and installation so all the
rest of us can drool from afar.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV-Niner-Alpha <rv_niner_alpha(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | First flight of C-FSTB w/ Mazda 13B |
F
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV-Niner-Alpha <rv_niner_alpha(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | First flight of C-FSTB w/ Mazda 13B Rotary. |
That previous send was an oops..
Firstly, congratulations... much congratulations.
I started following your project about a year ago when I started my RV9 kit and
was particularly interested in your audacity to go with the Mazda Rotary. I have
been thinking alternative engine for my 9 and if I can muster the courage
like you to put a 13B rotary together like you did, I certainly will.
Anyhow, thanks for your very informative web-site... heaven knows how you made
the time to keep it going, and build a marvellous flying object at the same time.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca> |
| Subject: | First flight of C-FSTB w/ Mazda 13B Rotary. |
> Anyhow, thanks for your very informative web-site... heaven knows how you
> made the time to keep it going, and build a marvellous flying object at
> the same time.
Ha. I'm so far behind on updating the website that I'll probably never get
it up to date. I tried a few weeks ago but I didn't know where to start. I
ended up throwing on a few more pictures, tried to type some insightful
words of wisdom describing aspects of the project, then I said to heck with
it and headed out to the hangar :-)
I'm glad you like what I've got. As testing progresses I will try to
post some numbers.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
RE: RV9-List: First flight of C-FSTB w/ Mazda 13B Rotary.
Anyhow, thanks for your very informative web-site... heaven knows how you made
the time to keep it going, and build a marvellous flying object at the same time.
Ha. I'm so far behind on updating the website that I'll probably never get it up
to date. I tried a few weeks ago but I didn't know where to start. I ended up
throwing on a few more pictures, tried to type some insightful words of wisdom
describing aspects of the project, then I said to heck with it and headed out
to the hangar :-)
I'm glad you like what I've got. As testing progresses I will try to post some
numbers.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | separating HS spars |
Well, my emp kit arrived today, and it's a good thing my tools are not
here yet, else I would be completely stuck on the very first step!
The pairs of front/rear HS spars came nested together and I cannot
for the life of me get them to come apart. They seem to be the same-size
"U" shape and have been pressed together such that the outer one is squeezing
the inner one. I already tried wiggling
some rubber-coated tool handles in there with limited success, but
the rest of the length of the spar remained completely stuck.
Naturally I could use large amounts of force, but seeing as these are
aircraft parts, I am looking for a gentler approach. Any ideas?
Maybe a bunch of c-clamps to compress the inner one so that it will come
out? (don't know if that will damage the part though)
Thanks!
Paul
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | separating HS spars |
Use the force Paul;
When you first begin building, it is natural to think of these parts as
"holy", and you'll treat them as fine china, but soon you'll realize that
it's just metal and not fragile at all. This is not to say that some care is
not required.
A wooden wedge driven between them should force them apart.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B RV-9Endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe in,
Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass".
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Eastham
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 9:44 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: separating HS spars
>
>
> Well, my emp kit arrived today, and it's a good thing my tools are not
> here yet, else I would be completely stuck on the very first step!
> The pairs of front/rear HS spars came nested together and I cannot
> for the life of me get them to come apart. They seem to be the same-size
> "U" shape and have been pressed together such that the outer one
> is squeezing
> the inner one. I already tried wiggling
> some rubber-coated tool handles in there with limited success, but
> the rest of the length of the spar remained completely stuck.
>
> Naturally I could use large amounts of force, but seeing as these are
> aircraft parts, I am looking for a gentler approach. Any ideas?
>
> Maybe a bunch of c-clamps to compress the inner one so that it will come
> out? (don't know if that will damage the part though)
>
> Thanks!
> Paul
>
> __________________________________
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Pat Long ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Pat Long
Subject: Cracks in Wood Prop Hub Bore
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/PGLong@aol.com.09.13.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
I tested one of my QB tanks today for leaks prior to painting. With PVC
tape sealing the drain hole, filler hole and the main fuel exit I dropped
the pressure through the vent connection so I had a differential of about
10" of water on a manometer. The pressure is dropping at about 2" every 30
minutes which must be a very minute leak. How does one go about finding it?
The cork gasket is in place with gasket sealant and I have dipped the screws
securing this cover plate and the fuel sender screws in sealant also.
Thanks, Steve
#90360
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Hi Steve,
The first trick is to mix a spray bottle with water and soap (dishwashing -
"Dawn" type), and when the tanks are under pressure, spray the whole tank.
Even a minute leak should show some "bubbling".
Make sure you first check the obvious areas:
the drain holes, filler area, etc.. before doing the whole tank. Many times
the leak is just a less than perfect seal on all of the "testing apparatus".
If they are good, then look at the rear baffle, then the fuel sender plate,
then the rib's.
Hope this helps,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Sampson
Subject: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
I tested one of my QB tanks today for leaks prior to painting. With PVC
tape sealing the drain hole, filler hole and the main fuel exit I dropped
the pressure through the vent connection so I had a differential of about
10" of water on a manometer. The pressure is dropping at about 2" every 30
minutes which must be a very minute leak. How does one go about finding it?
The cork gasket is in place with gasket sealant and I have dipped the screws
securing this cover plate and the fuel sender screws in sealant also.
Thanks, Steve
#90360
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Further to my own query the archives talk about soap water and blowing
bubbles. Is this just ordinary soap?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com> |
My fuel tank caps leaked fairly significantly around the center rod that
expands the main O-ring. The main O-ring seal didn't leak, just the center
seal...Dick Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
> I tested one of my QB tanks today for leaks prior to painting. With PVC
> tape sealing the drain hole, filler hole and the main fuel exit I dropped
> the pressure through the vent connection so I had a differential of about
> 10" of water on a manometer. The pressure is dropping at about 2" every 30
> minutes which must be a very minute leak. How does one go about finding
it?
> The cork gasket is in place with gasket sealant and I have dipped the
screws
> securing this cover plate and the fuel sender screws in sealant also.
>
> Thanks, Steve
> #90360
> UK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Oliveira" <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net> |
Ditto with mine. Only when I really taped and sealed the fillers up did I
get anything resembling no leaks.
John O
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
> My fuel tank caps leaked fairly significantly around the center rod that
> expands the main O-ring. The main O-ring seal didn't leak, just the
center
> seal...Dick Jones
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
> To:
> Subject: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
>
>
> >
> > I tested one of my QB tanks today for leaks prior to painting. With PVC
> > tape sealing the drain hole, filler hole and the main fuel exit I
dropped
> > the pressure through the vent connection so I had a differential of
about
> > 10" of water on a manometer. The pressure is dropping at about 2" every
30
> > minutes which must be a very minute leak. How does one go about finding
> it?
> > The cork gasket is in place with gasket sealant and I have dipped the
> screws
> > securing this cover plate and the fuel sender screws in sealant also.
> >
> > Thanks, Steve
> > #90360
> > UK
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Check the BNC connector also. If you didn't substitute a pressure type
connector, there are reports of the one Vans supplied leaking. Mine did.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vicki Schrimmer <abusymom(at)cox.net> |
The top flange of the aft half of the F-904 bulkhead has rivet holes for
nutplates. The instructions say to countersink these rivet holes. However,
there are 8 additional 3/32" holes in this flange next to the holes for the
nutplate rivets. Does anybody know what these holes are for? Are we also
suppose to countersink these holes?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vicki Schrimmer <abusymom(at)cox.net> |
The top flange of the aft half of the F-904 bulkhead has rivet holes for
nutplates. The instructions say to countersink these rivet holes. However,
there are 8 additional 3/32" holes in this flange next to the holes for the
nutplate rivets. Does anybody know what these holes are for? Are we also
suppose to countersink these holes?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
Mark,
Those additional holes should be for the top flange of the seat floor ribs that
run between the F-904 and F-905. They will need to be countersunk also. For virtually
all of my nutplates I use the NAS 3/32" oops rivets, so I always countersink
the nutplate rivets.
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: Vicki Schrimmer
Subject: RV9-List: F-904 Question
The top flange of the aft half of the F-904 bulkhead has rivet holes for
nutplates. The instructions say to countersink these rivet holes. However,
there are 8 additional 3/32" holes in this flange next to the holes for the
nutplate rivets. Does anybody know what these holes are for? Are we also
suppose to countersink these holes?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Schrimmer
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
Steve
Crank your tank test pressure up to about 27 inches of H2O which will give
you about one PSI. It will give you a better chance of finding your leaks
and will not damage the tanks. This is what I used with good success on my
RV-9A tanks. I also used a spray bottle of water with a very small amount
of liquid detergent soap.
Dean Van Winkle
Finish Kit/13B NA Rotary
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Oliveira" <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
> Ditto with mine. Only when I really taped and sealed the fillers up did I
> get anything resembling no leaks.
>
> John O
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
>
> >
> > My fuel tank caps leaked fairly significantly around the center rod that
> > expands the main O-ring. The main O-ring seal didn't leak, just the
> center
> > seal...Dick Jones
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I tested one of my QB tanks today for leaks prior to painting. With
PVC
> > > tape sealing the drain hole, filler hole and the main fuel exit I
> dropped
> > > the pressure through the vent connection so I had a differential of
> about
> > > 10" of water on a manometer. The pressure is dropping at about 2"
every
> 30
> > > minutes which must be a very minute leak. How does one go about
finding
> > it?
> > > The cork gasket is in place with gasket sealant and I have dipped the
> > screws
> > > securing this cover plate and the fuel sender screws in sealant also.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Steve
> > > #90360
> > > UK
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Kovac" <kayce(at)sysmatrix.net> |
Hi Steve,
I can appreciate what you're going thru. I spent about 4 weeks searching for
ways to solve the problemto make a long story short, it was only after I
used a neighbors swimming pool was I able to locate the leaks, as minute as
they were. I put about 30 inches of H2O press. then the pool. I located 5
rivets along the skin-back flange leaking...drilled out...more goop,
reriveted then it held 27 " for more than 24 hours...I wish you luck in your
endeavors.
Harold Kovac, flaps done, 1 aileron..and nearly complete with the next
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Oliveira" <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
> Ditto with mine. Only when I really taped and sealed the fillers up did I
> get anything resembling no leaks.
>
> John O
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
>
> >
> > My fuel tank caps leaked fairly significantly around the center rod that
> > expands the main O-ring. The main O-ring seal didn't leak, just the
> center
> > seal...Dick Jones
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I tested one of my QB tanks today for leaks prior to painting. With
PVC
> > > tape sealing the drain hole, filler hole and the main fuel exit I
> dropped
> > > the pressure through the vent connection so I had a differential of
> about
> > > 10" of water on a manometer. The pressure is dropping at about 2"
every
> 30
> > > minutes which must be a very minute leak. How does one go about
finding
> > it?
> > > The cork gasket is in place with gasket sealant and I have dipped the
> > screws
> > > securing this cover plate and the fuel sender screws in sealant also.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Steve
> > > #90360
> > > UK
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
I will be installing a new SPAM and virus blocking appliance this
evening or tomorrow. The installation will involve some changes
in the Matronics DNS MX records, and will impact how incoming
email is handled. While I expect these changes to be transparent
to all of the List subscribers, things might go differently... ;-)
The Lists get bombarded with tons of SPAM messages and viruses
each day and fortunately my custom filters have been extremely
effective at filtering most of this from redistribution. Its
time to move to the next level of technology, however, and this
SPAM and Virus filtering appliance seems like an excellent
solution.
I will post a follow up message later in the week when things
have stabilized and I have some filter statistics to share.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Thanks for all the replies re tank leaks. Its looking like the filler cap
leaks minutely, but I am finding it quite hard to seal it completely so I
can be sure there is no other location.
Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca> |
Take the cap apart and clean all o-rings and surfaces then reassemble with a
liberal coating of silicon grease. (Dow Corning 111). They will seal
perfectly.
While you have them apart drive out the roll pin and replace it with
a piece of 1/16 rod. 1/16 SS welding rod works well, or buy a couple of 1/16
drills and cut off the shank to use for this. Easy to do now, hard to do
later when it breaks at a less opportune time.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sampson [SMTP:SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 8:52 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
>
>
> Thanks for all the replies re tank leaks. Its looking like the filler cap
> leaks minutely, but I am finding it quite hard to seal it completely so I
> can be sure there is no other location.
>
> Steve.
>
>
>
>
>
RE: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
Take the cap apart and clean all o-rings and surfaces then reassemble with a liberal
coating of silicon grease. (Dow Corning 111). They will seal perfectly.
While you have them apart drive out the roll pin and replace it with a piece of
1/16 rod. 1/16 SS welding rod works well, or buy a couple of 1/16 drills and
cut off the shank to use for this. Easy to do now, hard to do later when it breaks
at a less opportune time.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sampson [SMTP:SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu]
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
-- RV9-List message posted by: Steve Sampson SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu
Thanks for all the replies re tank leaks. Its looking like the filler cap
leaks minutely, but I am finding it quite hard to seal it completely so I
can be sure there is no other location.
Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones" <esnj(at)granbury.com> |
Steve: I put a piece of Saran Wrap about 6 inches square over the inside
surface of mine, inserted the cap with the excess wrap coming out between
the main o-ring seal and the tank neck. Leave the wrap somewhat loose so
that the rough edges of the cap center bolt don't cut it and try to spread
the wrap evenly under the o-ring so that it seals well here.
I soaped it with pressure on it and it held well. I did not put more that
about 20 inches of water pressure on my tanks. I used a water manometer so
that if I got carried away with the pressure it would blow the water out and
relieve the pressure. I found that just watching the pressure to determine
leak rate was very temperature sensitive so I soaped all joints and rivets.
Dick Jones 90062
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Tanl leaks
>
> Thanks for all the replies re tank leaks. Its looking like the filler cap
> leaks minutely, but I am finding it quite hard to seal it completely so I
> can be sure there is no other location.
>
> Steve.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
>
> Thanks for all the replies re tank leaks. Its looking like the filler cap
> leaks minutely, but I am finding it quite hard to seal it completely so I
> can be sure there is no other location.
>
> Steve.
>
>
Steve,
A fellow 9A builder loaned me this thing that he bought at a plumbing supply
store. I'm not sure what you call it, but it's a metal and rubber plug with
a wing nut on top that you twist to make the rubber plug expand to the
diameter of the pipe you are trying to plug. The diameter of this thing was
just slightly smaller than the filler cap, so it fit into the opening in the
tank almost perfectly. Anyway, I took a latex glove and put it over the
plug, then twisted the wing nut until I had a good, tight fit. I then tested
the tanks with a manometer and from what I can tell, there weren't any
leaks.
Mark Schrimmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
My filler leaked as well. I ended up using the balloons that look like
catepillers (sp?) as opposed to a smooth look. Blow up the balloon with
about half of it inside the tank and the narrow part of the balloon at the
neck and the wider parts on either side. This seals the opening very
effectively.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Schrimmer" <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Re: Tank Leaks
>
> >
> > Thanks for all the replies re tank leaks. Its looking like the filler
cap
> > leaks minutely, but I am finding it quite hard to seal it completely so
I
> > can be sure there is no other location.
> >
> > Steve.
> >
> >
> Steve,
>
> A fellow 9A builder loaned me this thing that he bought at a plumbing
supply
> store. I'm not sure what you call it, but it's a metal and rubber plug
with
> a wing nut on top that you twist to make the rubber plug expand to the
> diameter of the pipe you are trying to plug. The diameter of this thing
was
> just slightly smaller than the filler cap, so it fit into the opening in
the
> tank almost perfectly. Anyway, I took a latex glove and put it over the
> plug, then twisted the wing nut until I had a good, tight fit. I then
tested
> the tanks with a manometer and from what I can tell, there weren't any
> leaks.
>
> Mark Schrimmer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JVonDolen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | More on Tank Leaks |
Steve, I don't know if you have been able to seal your filler caps yet or not
or what else has transpired since you posted, but here are my comments:
First of all, 2" drop every 30 minutes from only a 10" differential is not a
minute leak, it is one that can be easily seen with a soap solution (I
brushed mine on rather than sprayed). I was getting leaks from my filler caps too
but was able to seal them (for test purposes) with duct tape but I had to work
at it, ie, clean the surface around the cap with a solvent then apply liberal
duct tape very carefully.
After getting the caps sealed I was still getting a slow drop in my water
manometer from a starting point of about 25", and all the areas around the end
plate were not leaking. So even tho I have QB wings/tanks I decided to check all
the rivets and seams. On one tank I found two leaking baffle rivets, one in
the top and one on the bottom. They would "bubble" quite noticeably, and after
sealing with my beloved duct tape no more bubbles and the manometer held its
level for several days (varying of course with temperature and baro pressure).
The factory suggested using Loctite or Permatex thread locker, penetrating
grade (green color). The fluid wicks into the leak and seals it, they said. I
did this and sure enough, no leaks, either top or bottom. But I'm still a little
worried about how permanent this solution is.
Harold Kovac, I sure would be interested to hear more about how you drilled
those 5 rivets out. Were they hard to remove since they were imbeded in cured
Proseal, and
did you have any concerns about getting debris (sp) inside your tank? Were
they pop rivets or solid ones?
John Von Dohlen
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Kovac" <kayce(at)sysmatrix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More on Tank Leaks |
Hi John,
I had 5 rivets in a row on one side of the baffle flange area, just drilled
them out , cleaned up the dimples/holes with MEK, mixed a bit of Pro Seal,
then
re-riveted, next day checked with the manometer and NO LEAK. I lost about
4-5 weeks trying suds , gooping up all the flange rivets on the baffle , and
end sides, and no joy...when the neighor pulled the winter cover from his
pool I did a dunk and solved my problem ....finally. Good luck
Harold 9A working on completing wings
----- Original Message -----
From: <JVonDolen(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV9-List: More on Tank Leaks
>
> Steve, I don't know if you have been able to seal your filler caps yet or
not
> or what else has transpired since you posted, but here are my comments:
>
> First of all, 2" drop every 30 minutes from only a 10" differential is
not a
> minute leak, it is one that can be easily seen with a soap solution (I
> brushed mine on rather than sprayed). I was getting leaks from my filler
caps too
> but was able to seal them (for test purposes) with duct tape but I had to
work
> at it, ie, clean the surface around the cap with a solvent then apply
liberal
> duct tape very carefully.
>
> After getting the caps sealed I was still getting a slow drop in my water
> manometer from a starting point of about 25", and all the areas around the
end
> plate were not leaking. So even tho I have QB wings/tanks I decided to
check all
> the rivets and seams. On one tank I found two leaking baffle rivets, one
in
> the top and one on the bottom. They would "bubble" quite noticeably, and
after
> sealing with my beloved duct tape no more bubbles and the manometer held
its
> level for several days (varying of course with temperature and baro
pressure).
>
> The factory suggested using Loctite or Permatex thread locker, penetrating
> grade (green color). The fluid wicks into the leak and seals it, they
said. I
> did this and sure enough, no leaks, either top or bottom. But I'm still a
little
> worried about how permanent this solution is.
>
> Harold Kovac, I sure would be interested to hear more about how you
drilled
> those 5 rivets out. Were they hard to remove since they were imbeded in
cured
> Proseal, and
> did you have any concerns about getting debris (sp) inside your tank? Were
> they pop rivets or solid ones?
>
> John Von Dohlen
> Canopy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | More on Tank Leaks |
Thanks for all the helpful replies re tank leaks. I have tried to implement
them all though havnt tried the balloon in the filler neck yet. I still
havnt managed to totally cure the problem though it is much reduced. The
tanks are QB and on the wing so I am still trying to solve the problem
without taking them off. Our Philippine friends appear to have done a realIy
good job on the riveting/proseal, so I remain suspicious that the problem
remains in one of the no less than 6 other points that need to be sealed -
filler / drain / vent / outlet / 6" plate / fuel sender - probably the
filler cap. I know that despite the excellent advice, the tank caps are
still not quite sealed. I am also working on several other issues in
parallel for good reason that I wont go into here - also to preserve my
sanity. I have had to put the wings on one side for a few days but will come
back to them shortly.
One idea which I have thought about is this and I would like comments. Shut
the tanks up. Pour 5 galls of gas in together with a red dye that my local
aircraft maint unit use for this purpose. Lift one end for a while, then the
other. See what turns red. Pour the fuel in the lawn tractor.
Steve
PS I don't smoke.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Ken Brooks ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Ken Brooks
Subject: Remote Magnetometer Shelf and CPU Mount for Blue Mountain Avionics
EFIS-One in RV-8
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kenbrooks@charter.com.09.20.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
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2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
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5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting Problems |
For Some Members...?
Dear Listers,
Matronics is now utilizing a SPAM filter appliance to filter out the
excessive amounts of inappropriate email that bombards the Email List
Forums each day. The filter is reporting that over 66% of the email
messages sent to Matronics email destinations are of SPAM content and
reviewing the logfiles, it would appear to be true. That is indeed great!
While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new
appliance, I am suspecting that a few legitimate email List posts are being
blocked as too, although I can't confirm this. It is difficult to churn
through the logfiles looking though thousands of blocked email messages
trying to determine if any legitimate List posts were blocked.
If you suspect that your posts are accidently being blocked by the SPAM
filter appliance, I have created a new Trouble Report web page that will
allow you to report your problems directly to me without having to use
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then its likely that I wouldn't be able to receive your direct email
regarding difficulty in posting. The web form bypasses the incoming email
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Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you
are having including any bounced email or email error messages that you may
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The Trouble Report Website URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report/
I apologize for any inconvenience the SPAM filter may be causing you. I
will work toward resolving your issues as quickly as possible.
Best regards,
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Matronics EMail List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Oil door catches |
I am pondering whether to use the VANS supplied catches on the oil door.
(Leland / Andy - I know you chose not to.) Of those of you that did are you
happy with the result or do you regret it?
I believe its also the same latch on the glovebox but I just cant see using
it there.
Steve
#90360
UK
Cowl (and tank leaks in between.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Oil door catches |
Hi Steve,
I've used a simple flush hartwell latch on both my RV6's, and it's worked
just fine. 150+hrs on the first one and it's still going stron. I like it
much better than the protruding wing camlocks.
Regarding the glove box, I made a flush mount glove box door, and used a
knurled knob that looks like the rest of the avionics knobs. The glove box
door itself from Van's, is less than beautiful, as it's basically a plate
that just slaps over the opening. I didn't like it, so I made a flush door.
You can see it at http://www.steinair.com and click on "N64YU" in the upper
right hand corner of the website.
This is not to say that the Van's stuff doesn't work, it works just fine.
There are thousands of Rv's flying with those camlocks on the oil doors, but
since the rest of the plane is so smooth, I figured why go through the work
of installing hinges on the cowling only to have two protruding camlocks on
the oil door.
Just my 2 cents,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Sampson
Subject: RV9-List: Oil door catches
I am pondering whether to use the VANS supplied catches on the oil door.
(Leland / Andy - I know you chose not to.) Of those of you that did are you
happy with the result or do you regret it?
I believe its also the same latch on the glovebox but I just cant see using
it there.
Steve
#90360
UK
Cowl (and tank leaks in between.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil door catches |
Steve, if you use the Hartwell latch, be sure that the inset on the
portion that goes under the cowling fiberglass is deep enough. The one I
bought from a lister in LA was too shallow and would not fit under the
fiberglass ridge underneath the cowl. I am not sure that latching the
door at the center will prevent the edge from raising up due to the
in-flight pressure differential between the inside and outside of the
cowl. My door may require some angle-stiffeners. A local RV6 builder has
already ruined two doors trying to fit the latch. Pay a lot of attention
on the pictures on Andy's site and make several small cuts.
Leland
Redoing the static air system to get out low spots that could collect
water.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil door catches |
I used that same latch from Laird Owens in CA. It does require that you thin the
fiberglass down in the area that the latch is. I was able to cut out the foam
in that area and simply reinforce it with a bit of glass. Seems to be holding
just fine.
With the heavily fluted angle reinforcements I have not had any problems with the
edges lifting in any way.
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:06:03 -0700
>
>Steve, if you use the Hartwell latch, be sure that the inset on the
>portion that goes under the cowling fiberglass is deep enough. The one I
>bought from a lister in LA was too shallow and would not fit under the
>fiberglass ridge underneath the cowl. I am not sure that latching the
>door at the center will prevent the edge from raising up due to the
>in-flight pressure differential between the inside and outside of the
>cowl. My door may require some angle-stiffeners. A local RV6 builder has
>already ruined two doors trying to fit the latch. Pay a lot of attention
>on the pictures on Andy's site and make several small cuts.
>Leland
>Redoing the static air system to get out low spots that could collect
>water.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Real tear jerker |
| From: | Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
Just tried to fit my wing spar into the fuselage. Wont fit, the wing spar
is to wide by almost a 16th. the wood spacers were cut to size out of fur
or pine.What happened was my helper thightned the spar bolts down to hard
and crushed the wood. I talked to Vans they suggested drilling out all
the appropriate rivets redrilling for over sized rivets for the proper
widthand re riviting. I would suggest using alum for spacers.BE SURE TO
CHECK YOUR SPAR WIDTH BEFORE RIVITING.
Joe RV9A the deep Sob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Mark Thomasson" <lmthomasson(at)adelphia.net> |
My anti-virus is catching 8 to 10 messages a day with the Worm SWEN_A attached. Will everybody please at least run the free virus checker at www.antivirus.com and remove the worm from your system if you have it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
"Rv9-List(at)Matronics. Com" ,
"Rv8-List(at)Matronics. Com" ,
"Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" ,
"Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com"
SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS
It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative
and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not
sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to
positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or
equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA
positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly
IFR.
I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is
no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in
experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR
who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use,
then please let me know.
Sincerely,
Noel Simmons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Oil door catches |
Stein/ Andy / Leland - thanks for the oil door /glove box replies. I will
probably go the standard route on the oil door, but not the glove box.
Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Real tear jerker |
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
> Subject: RV9-List: Real tear jerker
> From: Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com>
>
>
> Just tried to fit my wing spar into the fuselage. Wont fit, the wing spar
> is to wide by almost a 16th. the wood spacers were cut to size out of fur
> or pine.What happened was my helper thightned the spar bolts down to hard
> and crushed the wood. I talked to Vans they suggested drilling out all
> the appropriate rivets redrilling for over sized rivets for the proper
> widthand re riviting. I would suggest using alum for spacers.BE SURE TO
> CHECK YOUR SPAR WIDTH BEFORE RIVITING.
>
> Joe RV9A the deep Sob.
>
Joe,
Sorry to hear about your spar not fitting. So those of us who are behind you
in the building process don't run into the same problem, I'm hoping you or
someone else can answer some questions.
1. With all the pre-punched holes in the F-904 assembly, how could the spar
not fit?
2. Does Van's recommend making the spacers just a few thousandths wider than
the spar so you can easily slide the spar between the two halves of the
F-904?
3. Which rivets will you have to drill out to correct the problem?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Mark Schrimmer
Working on F-904 assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Real tear jerker |
| From: | Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
> > Subject: RV9-List: Real tear jerker
> > From: Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com>
> >
> >
> > Just tried to fit my wing spar into the fuselage. Wont fit, the
> wing spar
> > is to wide by almost a 16th. the wood spacers were cut to size out
> of fur
> > or pine.What happened was my helper thightned the spar bolts down
> to hard
> > and crushed the wood. I talked to Vans they suggested drilling out
> all
> > the appropriate rivets redrilling for over sized rivets for the
> proper
> > widthand re riviting. I would suggest using alum for spacers.BE
> SURE TO
> > CHECK YOUR SPAR WIDTH BEFORE RIVITING.
> >
> > Joe RV9A the deep Sob.
> >
>
> Joe,
>
> Sorry to hear about your spar not fitting. So those of us who are
> behind you
> in the building process don't run into the same problem, I'm hoping
> you or
> someone else can answer some questions.
>
> 1. With all the pre-punched holes in the F-904 assembly, how could
> the spar
> not fit?
Actually I followed the instructions They call for a one and 7/16" block
where the spar fits.Measiuring my spar widt it is actually about 3
thousand wider then 1 and 7/16". Which really is the builders problem I
should have checked the width. I buil an RV6A prior to this and did not
give it a thought because spar width was not a problem. We'll I drilled
out a couple dozen rivetsand spread it to the poper width plus a couple
thouants every thing seems to be working out ok. I wouldn't wory to much
about this Just dont forget to measure 4 times and cut once. Good luck.
PS check your helpers work.
Joe RV6A Back on track.
s. You'll never see banner ads or any other
>
=
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> ==========================================================
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer(at)iserv.net> |
"RV-9 Matronics List"
| Subject: | Trim Tab Lower Bend |
The plans (and the parts) show a need for bending the forward edge of the lower
tab skin for downward travel clearance. Any suggestions for making a nice straight
bend line across the width of the tab?
Doug Fischer
90706 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer(at)iserv.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: [RV-9A] Re: AFS Primer |
I am looking for additional info on this string of messages. I am working on
the Emp (VS, HS, Rudder done) and have also been using the AFS Primer/ Sealer
but all this talk of non-water-based exterior paint not being compatable with
the AFS stuff makes me nervous. I am planning solvent-based exterior due to
ability to sand, repair, etc., but I have very little (read: none) painting experience.
If the exterior primer eats through AFS Sealer, I am wondering if I
need to switch to an epoxy primer and trash-can the AFS. My concern is that
using laquer thinner or MEK to remove all that exposed Sealer may seep through
and ruin the sealer inside the structure. I guess I have a choice ahead - Stick
with AFS and avoid spraying Sealer on areas that will eventually get exterior
exposure and removing the Sealer from exterior areas I've already done, or
switch to epoxy (or whatever primer that is compatable with non-water-based
exterior) and stop using AFS altogether.
Any suggestions / experiences out there? Thanks in advance for any info!
Doug Fischer
90706 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DellAngelo, Scott" <SDellAngelo(at)usg.com> |
I thought it went more like "Aircraft restricted to day VFR unless equipped
in accordance with FAR 91.205". If your plane has the criteria of 91.205
then you're ok. Likewise with night VFR. If you meet the criteria then you
are legal. Nothing in 91.205 says anything about TSO's being required.
Scott DellAngelo - #90598
FINALLY ordered wings yesterday (emp done since December)
>>>>It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA
representative and our FAA DAR(who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that
it is not sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR
needs to positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or
equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
You should take this up in the Blue Mountain newsgroup. There is already
a thread there for this topic, and that's where the solution will come
from. I am flying a BMA EFIS too and had similar questions. But I do not
intend to fly my plane IFR. I only equipped it for IFR as a safety
precaution. RV's are not appropriate airframes for "serious" IFR. Anyone
saying otherwise has never flown "serious" IFR in them. An occasional IFR
climb to clear destination is a much different story.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sargentclt(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: [RV-9A] Re: AFS Primer |
DOUG, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH I AM USING NAPA PRIMER #15210 IT IS ARMY GREEN AND CAN
BE SANDED OR SCUFFED FOR TOP COATING. IT IS ALSO SELF ETCHING. ANY AREAS THAT
MAY BLEED OVER ON TO THE TOP SURFACE MUST BE SCUFF SANDED FOR ADHESHION.
TALK TO A PAINT SPECIALIST. YOU SHOULD USE EPOXY WITH EPOXY AND EURATHANE WITH
THE LIKE. CALL AIRCRAFT SPRUCE FOR PAINT HELP OR VALSPAR ON VANS WEBSITE FOR
SPECIFICS. I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WATER BASED PAINTS. I ONLY USE SOLVENT BASED.
HOPE THIS HELPS TAD 7A "Douglas A. Fischer" wrote:
>
>
> I am looking for additional info on this string of messages. I am working on
the Emp (VS, HS, Rudder done) and have also been using the AFS Primer/ Sealer
but all this talk of non-water-based exterior paint not being compatable with
the AFS stuff makes me nervous. I am planning solvent-based exterior due to ability
to sand, repair, etc., but I have very little (read: none) painting experience.
If the exterior primer eats through AFS Sealer, I am wondering if I need
to switch to an epoxy primer and trash-can the AFS. My concern is that using
laquer thinner or MEK to remove all that exposed Sealer may seep through and
ruin the sealer inside the structure. I guess I have a choice ahead - Stick with
AFS and avoid spraying Sealer on areas that will eventually get exterior exposure
and removing the Sealer from exterior areas I've already done, or switch
to epoxy (or whatever primer that is compatable with non-water-based exterior)
and stop using AFS altogether.
>
> Any suggestions / experiences out there? Thanks in advance for any info!
>
> Doug Fischer
> 90706 Emp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sargentclt(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Trim Tab Lower Bend |
YOUR HAND. SERIOUSLY THIS IS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE AIRPLANE. WAIT TILL YOU GET
OIL AND DIRT UNDER THERE YOU WILL FORGET ABOUT THE SLIGHT BEND HERE. REALLY.
TAD RV7A"Douglas A. Fischer" wrote:
>
>The plans (and the parts) show a need for bending the forward edge of the lower
tab skin for downward travel clearance. Any suggestions for making a nice straight
bend line across the width of the tab?
>
>Doug Fischer
>90706 Emp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Corrosion Inside Fuel Tank Cap
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.27.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DellAngelo, Scott" <SDellAngelo(at)usg.com> |
Why is this? Because they are quick in roll? I am curious why people say
this? I have never flown any IFR in them so I would like to know,
unfortunately my only RV ride was a demo flight at Van's in N129RV. It
seemed to be a very stable airplane to me. I guess it all depends on what
one calls "serious" IFR too. Depending upon that answer one could argue
that any plane without full de-ice, without real radar, without an engine
driven by pistons, and the ability to climb well into the flight levels
would really be any good. I plan to equip and use my plane IFR (I decided
on the 9 because it seemed better for this). My IFR plans probably fall
under most people's definition of "light" however. I just don't see how a
172 for instance would be really any better?
Scott
90598 - wings on order
>>>>>RV's are not appropriate airframes for "serious" IFR. Anyone
saying otherwise has never flown "serious" IFR in them. An occasional IFR
climb to clear destination is a much different story.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: EFIS & IFR |
I'm puzzled by this also.
I've flown my share of IFR in a Grumman Traveler.
However, I have not flown an RV9. I suspect that it will be equivalent or better.
Peter
RV9A Empennage.
On 27 Sep 2003 at 15:36, DellAngelo, Scott wrote:
>
>
> Why is this? Because they are quick in roll? I am curious why people
> say this? I have never flown any IFR in them so I would like to know,
> unfortunately my only RV ride was a demo flight at Van's in N129RV.
> It seemed to be a very stable airplane to me. I guess it all depends
> on what one calls "serious" IFR too. Depending upon that answer one
> could argue that any plane without full de-ice, without real radar,
> without an engine driven by pistons, and the ability to climb well
> into the flight levels would really be any good. I plan to equip and
> use my plane IFR (I decided on the 9 because it seemed better for
> this). My IFR plans probably fall under most people's definition of
> "light" however. I just don't see how a 172 for instance would be
> really any better?
>
> Scott
> 90598 - wings on order
>
> >>>>>RV's are not appropriate airframes for "serious" IFR. Anyone
> saying otherwise has never flown "serious" IFR in them. An occasional
> IFR climb to clear destination is a much different story.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> ====
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com> |
Matronics RV9 List
| Subject: | Bad wing rib to spar rivets |
I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
better?
Warren Hurd
90454 Wings
http://www.ahyup.com
Mushroomed Rivets
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu> |
I think I would be fairly reluctant to do IFR in an aerobatic RV (1-8).
However, the RV9 is "almost" ideal for IFR. It is a beautifully stable
and easy to control airplane. I am currently getting IFR instructions
from a master CFI here in CT, and he is very impressed with the
airplane. I can affirmatively state that the RV-9A is very suitable.
There is only one drawback to an RV-9, compared to other small piston
planes, such as a cherokee: it is very easy to gain 50-100' of
altitude. Remember: the 9A has "almost bad glider" characteristics. It
really wants to fly. This is a minor drawback.
Now, another question is how safe is hard IFR for a single pilot in any
small airplane. The answer must be "not very." I would not fly IFR
unless I had three conditions met. First, independent main instrument
systems (gyro, alt, etc.). The partial panel on the IFR test forgets
recognizing that a gyro has failed. My guess is by the time you do
recognize this in real busy IFR flight, you would be in deep dodo. This
is easily avoided if you have an EFIS that affirmatively recognizes
trouble (e.g., against magnetic+GPS input), or if you have an EFIS+AI
that you use in your scan. The Dynon, IMHO, is the ideal instrument to
provide this safety margin. Second, I would insist on an autopilot and
alt-hold. The ideal system has the plane fly itself, and you as the
pilot watching over what the plane is flying, so that you are the
cross-check. This gives you the time to pay attention to everything
necessary and reduce mistakes. Finally, anyone flying IFR without a
good GPS nowadays should have his/her head examined.
What I find interesting is how far my ideas of safety diverge from the
FAA's idea of safety. So, while I would make a Dynon-type $2,200
instrument an additional requirement, the FAA not only is neutral, but
outright discourages it (this is in certificated airplanes). The
ability to buy reasonably priced avionics is my biggest reason for
preferring homebuilts to certificated airplanes. You put a lot of
reasonable people with the best intent into one big organization (called
the FAA), and what comes out is an often counterproductive mess. The
only saving grace is that some individuals inside the FAA spend their
personal time and effort to help.
Regards,
/iaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets |
Check the rivet set to make sure it is correct size cup for the rivet.
Looks like the cup size may be too small. If the set is correct size, use
more hand pressure on gun to keep it from bouncing. Make sure the set is
not at an angle to the centerline of the rivet.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6 N296JC res
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
> I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
> of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
> factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
> rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
> make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
> attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
> I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
> better?
>
> Warren Hurd
> 90454 Wings
> http://www.ahyup.com
> Mushroomed Rivets
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets |
When squeezing the trigger, don't just squeeze it once and hold it for
the number of seconds you feel it will take. Once the gun starts to
bounce, it will rapidly bounce out of control. Instead try this. Squeeze
the trigger in short bursts. Count one, two, three, four, five, squeezing
the trigger each time you count. This doesn't take any longer and results
in far less bounce damage should you slip. The objective of course is not
to slip to begin with, but this technique will help a lot. I was taught to
use this method by the "old man" of our sheetmetal shop at the airline I
used to work for. You won't find smileys on my plane, so I can vouch for
its effectiveness. Don't just leave the smileys, drill them out and fix
them. If the damage is to the metal, at least try to gently tap it flat
again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
When I did my riveting,both while working for an aircraft company and on my airplane,
one was correct rivet set, two hold it tight against the rivet head,
three don't look at the bucking bar once its in place use your fingers to feel
it and keep it in proper position,concentrate on the rivet gun end of the operation,correct
angle to the head as it looks like you were tilting the gun,also
once am ready to drive try to drive it in one burst not several small ones as
that hardens the rivet and makes it harder to drive. Never use angled rivet
sets unless there is no other way to do it as they are a bad deal at the best
and only for those very few times when you need them. Do not use one of those
cheep rivet guns that are actually muffler cutters as they don't work either.
I wish you luck, look at factory rivets before you drill anything out as bad.
When drilling those out try to just drill the center of the head off, then while
supporting the back side use a punch to drive the rest out, remember support
the back side as close to the rivet as possible. I do hope our ideas help.
Boyd Butler
Boyd Butler
________________________________________________________________________________
Boyd: I'm Geoff Bowman, am starting to look for another project: considering
a RV/ Cozy/ ongEZ---do you have any tips/ pointers or food for thought for me?
Appreciate it Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
From: "L. Mark Thomasson" <lmthomasson(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV9-List: WORM SWEN_A
My anti-virus is catching 8 to 10 messages a day with the Worm SWEN_A attached. Will everybody please at least run the free virus checker at www.antivirus.com and remove the worm from your system if you have it.
Much better would be to download the FREE antivirus software from AVG. www.grisoft.com
This is an outstanding product and gives the lie to that old saw "There ain't no
such thing as a free lunch".
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Rivet-gun double off-set holder for one hand operation.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.28.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> |
, ,
,
| Subject: | New Dimpling Tool (DRDT-1) shipping soon |
Fellow RV Builders,
I have developed a new dimpling tool (DRDT-1) that is easier, faster, quieter, and safer (on the skins) then any other tool offered by existing aircraft tool suppliers. I have designed it to accommodate all the skins used in a RV construction including the prebent leading and trailing edge skins. It has been designed to accommodate the larger skins used in the RV-10. Please visit ExperimentalAero at www.experimentalaero.com.
On this website you will also find innovative tools and components under development
for your experimental aircraft project.
Paul Merems
ExperimentalAero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Russ" <russra(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 09/28/03 |
Ed: Shipping from Atlanta to you is $10.95 per Box. Thanks, Ron Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV9-List Digest Server" <rv9-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV9-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 09/28/03
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-28.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-28.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> RV9-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 09/28/03: 9
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:42 AM - Bad wing rib to spar rivets (Warren W Hurd)
> 2. 06:45 AM - IFR in RV-9A (ivo welch)
> 3. 06:52 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets (Jerry Calvert)
> 4. 07:09 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets (fcs(at)jlc.net)
> 5. 08:33 AM - Riveting (Boyd Butler)
> 6. 01:08 PM - Re: RV9 (Gkb5577(at)aol.com)
> 7. 01:35 PM - Virii (Rob W M Shipley)
> 8. 08:49 PM - [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
(Email List Photo Shares)
> 9. 09:19 PM - New Dimpling Tool (DRDT-1) shipping soon (Merems)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com>
> Matronics RV9 List
> Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
> I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
> of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
> factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
> rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
> make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
> attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
> I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
> better?
>
> Warren Hurd
> 90454 Wings
> http://www.ahyup.com
> Mushroomed Rivets
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: ivo welch <ivo.welch(at)yale.edu>
> Subject: RV9-List: IFR in RV-9A
>
>
> I think I would be fairly reluctant to do IFR in an aerobatic RV (1-8).
>
> However, the RV9 is "almost" ideal for IFR. It is a beautifully stable
> and easy to control airplane. I am currently getting IFR instructions
> from a master CFI here in CT, and he is very impressed with the
> airplane. I can affirmatively state that the RV-9A is very suitable.
>
> There is only one drawback to an RV-9, compared to other small piston
> planes, such as a cherokee: it is very easy to gain 50-100' of
> altitude. Remember: the 9A has "almost bad glider" characteristics. It
> really wants to fly. This is a minor drawback.
>
> Now, another question is how safe is hard IFR for a single pilot in any
> small airplane. The answer must be "not very." I would not fly IFR
> unless I had three conditions met. First, independent main instrument
> systems (gyro, alt, etc.). The partial panel on the IFR test forgets
> recognizing that a gyro has failed. My guess is by the time you do
> recognize this in real busy IFR flight, you would be in deep dodo. This
> is easily avoided if you have an EFIS that affirmatively recognizes
> trouble (e.g., against magnetic+GPS input), or if you have an EFIS+AI
> that you use in your scan. The Dynon, IMHO, is the ideal instrument to
> provide this safety margin. Second, I would insist on an autopilot and
> alt-hold. The ideal system has the plane fly itself, and you as the
> pilot watching over what the plane is flying, so that you are the
> cross-check. This gives you the time to pay attention to everything
> necessary and reduce mistakes. Finally, anyone flying IFR without a
> good GPS nowadays should have his/her head examined.
>
> What I find interesting is how far my ideas of safety diverge from the
> FAA's idea of safety. So, while I would make a Dynon-type $2,200
> instrument an additional requirement, the FAA not only is neutral, but
> outright discourages it (this is in certificated airplanes). The
> ability to buy reasonably priced avionics is my biggest reason for
> preferring homebuilts to certificated airplanes. You put a lot of
> reasonable people with the best intent into one big organization (called
> the FAA), and what comes out is an often counterproductive mess. The
> only saving grace is that some individuals inside the FAA spend their
> personal time and effort to help.
>
> Regards,
>
> /iaw
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
> Check the rivet set to make sure it is correct size cup for the rivet.
> Looks like the cup size may be too small. If the set is correct size,
use
> more hand pressure on gun to keep it from bouncing. Make sure the set is
> not at an angle to the centerline of the rivet.
>
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok
> RV6 N296JC res
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com>
> Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
> >
> > I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
> > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
> > factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
> > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
> > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
> > attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
> > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
> > better?
> >
> > Warren Hurd
> > 90454 Wings
> > http://www.ahyup.com
> > Mushroomed Rivets
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
> When squeezing the trigger, don't just squeeze it once and hold it for
> the number of seconds you feel it will take. Once the gun starts to
> bounce, it will rapidly bounce out of control. Instead try this. Squeeze
> the trigger in short bursts. Count one, two, three, four, five, squeezing
> the trigger each time you count. This doesn't take any longer and results
> in far less bounce damage should you slip. The objective of course is not
> to slip to begin with, but this technique will help a lot. I was taught
to
> use this method by the "old man" of our sheetmetal shop at the airline I
> used to work for. You won't find smileys on my plane, so I can vouch for
> its effectiveness. Don't just leave the smileys, drill them out and fix
> them. If the damage is to the metal, at least try to gently tap it flat
> again.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: RV9-List: Riveting
>
>
> When I did my riveting,both while working for an aircraft company and on
my airplane,
> one was correct rivet set, two hold it tight against the rivet head,
> three don't look at the bucking bar once its in place use your fingers to
feel
> it and keep it in proper position,concentrate on the rivet gun end of the
operation,correct
> angle to the head as it looks like you were tilting the gun,also
> once am ready to drive try to drive it in one burst not several small ones
as
> that hardens the rivet and makes it harder to drive. Never use angled
rivet
> sets unless there is no other way to do it as they are a bad deal at the
best
> and only for those very few times when you need them. Do not use one of
those
> cheep rivet guns that are actually muffler cutters as they don't work
either.
> I wish you luck, look at factory rivets before you drill anything out as
bad.
> When drilling those out try to just drill the center of the head off, then
while
> supporting the back side use a punch to drive the rest out, remember
support
> the back side as close to the rivet as possible. I do hope our ideas help.
> Boyd Butler
> Boyd Butler
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9
>
>
> Boyd: I'm Geoff Bowman, am starting to look for another project:
considering
> a RV/ Cozy/ ongEZ---do you have any tips/ pointers or food for thought for
me?
>
> Appreciate it Geoff
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com>
> Subject: RV9-List: Virii
>
>
> From: "L. Mark Thomasson" <lmthomasson(at)adelphia.net>
> Subject: RV9-List: WORM SWEN_A
>
>
> My anti-virus is catching 8 to 10 messages a day with the Worm SWEN_A
attached. Will everybody please at least run the free virus checker at
www.antivirus.com and remove the worm from your system if you have it.
> Much better would be to download the FREE antivirus software from AVG.
www.grisoft.com
> This is an outstanding product and gives the lie to that old saw "There
ain't no
> such thing as a free lunch".
> Rob
> Rob W M Shipley
> RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: RV9-List: [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
> From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
>
> Subject: Rivet-gun double off-set holder for one hand operation.
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.28.2003/i
ndex.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include
the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
> , ,
> ,
> Subject: RV9-List: New Dimpling Tool (DRDT-1) shipping soon
>
>
> Fellow RV Builders,
>
> I have developed a new dimpling tool (DRDT-1) that is easier, faster,
quieter, and safer (on the skins) then any other tool offered by existing
aircraft tool suppliers. I have designed it to accommodate all the skins
used in a RV construction including the prebent leading and trailing edge
skins. It has been designed to accommodate the larger skins used in the
RV-10. Please visit ExperimentalAero at www.experimentalaero.com.
>
> On this website you will also find innovative tools and components under
development
> for your experimental aircraft project.
>
> Paul Merems
> ExperimentalAero
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Hobert" <terhobey(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets |
Warren,
I had the same problem, I got all the ribs riveted to the main spar and when
I looked under at them I almost sh....... well you know. This was the right
wing too, I had already done the left wing and for some (luck of the draw, I
guess) reason they all turned out OK. Anyway, I ended up drilling out over
18 rivets! I read the advise on a lot of sights and then found that duct
taping up my rivet set and paying attention to the factory head more did the
trick. Live an learn I guess it is all part of the journey.
Terry Hobert 90680 - building fuel tanks.
>From: Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com>
>Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "rv-list(at)matronics.com" , Matronics RV9 List
>
>Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:42:05 -0400
>
>
>I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
>of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
>factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
>rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
>make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
>attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
>I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
>better?
>
>Warren Hurd
>90454 Wings
>http://www.ahyup.com
>Mushroomed Rivets
>
>
Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets |
When I smiley a rivet like that I usually turn the air down a little bit.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com>
Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
> I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
> of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
> factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
> rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
> make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
> attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
> I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
> better?
>
> Warren Hurd
> 90454 Wings
> http://www.ahyup.com
> Mushroomed Rivets
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net> |
, ,
,
| Subject: | Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1 |
Fellow builders.
Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1. This has caused some confusion and has been correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf
Sorry for the error.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Murray <jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03 |
Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the
RV-9A??
Jim Murray 90430
--- RV9-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be
> found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file
> includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and
> features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file
> includes the plain ASCII
> version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed
> with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> RV9-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue
> 09/30/03: 2
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:58 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
> (Phil Birkelbach)
> 2. 08:49 PM - Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
> (Merems)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
>
> When I smiley a rivet like that I usually turn the
> air down a little bit.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com>
> Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
>
> >
> > I have been happy with most of my rivets until
> now. During the riveting
> > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly
> deformed some of the
> > factory rivet heads. See them at
> http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
> > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would
> take 3 to 4 seconds to
> > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was
> paying much to much
> > attention to the shop head and ignoring the
> factory head.
> > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should
> I do to make this
> > better?
> >
> > Warren Hurd
> > 90454 Wings
> > http://www.ahyup.com
> > Mushroomed Rivets
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
> ,
> ,
> ,
> Subject: RV9-List: Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
>
>
>
> Fellow builders.
>
> Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was
> called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1.
> This has caused some confusion and has been
> correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF
> http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf
>
> Sorry for the error.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nicholson <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-9A Tow Bar |
I use a "Deluxe Cessna Towbar" from Aircraft Spruce (P/N 13-01540)
Dave
N347SD (Res.)
On Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:27 PM, James Murray [SMTP:jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com]
wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the
> RV-9A??
>
> Jim Murray 90430
>
>
> --- RV9-List Digest Server
> wrote:
> > *
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03 |
I got a great one from Bogart aviation, the "Bogi bar" Works fine.
http://maxpages.com/bogertaviation/Bogi_Bars
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: James Murray <jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the
>RV-9A??
>
>Jim Murray 90430
>
>
>--- RV9-List Digest Server
> wrote:
>> *
>>
>> ==================================================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ==================================================
>>
>> Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be
>> found in either
>> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file
>> includes the Digest
>> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and
>> features Hyperlinked
>> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file
>> includes the plain ASCII
>> version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed
>> with a generic
>> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>>
>>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.html
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>>
>>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.txt
>>
>>
>> ================================================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> RV9-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Tue
>> 09/30/03: 2
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 06:58 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>> (Phil Birkelbach)
>> 2. 08:49 PM - Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
>> (Merems)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
>> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>>
>>
>>
>> When I smiley a rivet like that I usually turn the
>> air down a little bit.
>>
>> Godspeed,
>>
>> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
>> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
>> http://www.myrv7.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com>
>> Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I have been happy with most of my rivets until
>> now. During the riveting
>> > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly
>> deformed some of the
>> > factory rivet heads. See them at
>> http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
>> > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would
>> take 3 to 4 seconds to
>> > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was
>> paying much to much
>> > attention to the shop head and ignoring the
>> factory head.
>> > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should
>> I do to make this
>> > better?
>> >
>> > Warren Hurd
>> > 90454 Wings
>> > http://www.ahyup.com
>> > Mushroomed Rivets
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
>> ,
>> ,
>> ,
>> Subject: RV9-List: Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
>>
>>
>>
>> Fellow builders.
>>
>> Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was
>> called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1.
>> This has caused some confusion and has been
>> correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF
>> http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf
>>
>> Sorry for the error.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Contributions
>> any other
>> Forums.
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
>> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi rvators,
I have had a really tough time getting the HS skin clecoed to the
skeleton. I have read about the problems with the nose ribs and I did
encounter those as well (not before bending out the skin at the tip,
alas). But on top of that, both of my spars and several main ribs
seemed to be sitting up very high in comparison to the skin, as if the
skin was a little too small. A lot of pushing down on the skeleton
and removal of all the spar vinyl *just barely* got me close enough to
put clecos in (I hope) without damage. They were not perfectly lined
up by any means! Maybe 20% blocked or so in some places. I even had
to move around on the rivet lines looking for closer holes to bring
everything else into alignment.
I do not have a very warm fuzzy feeling about this. I know this is a
"stressed skin" structure but this seems a bit much.
I have read about sanding ribs in the archives, but in order to
reduce them such that the spars fit better, it would seem that it
would rapidly weaken the rib at the flange bend. I have also rechecked
the jig, skin alignment in the jig, and fluting on all ribs.
Any other advice? Or is the whole thing normally a tricky fit?
Thanks,
Paul
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Moak <ken_moak(at)yahoo.com> |
Paul
Make sure the ribs are straight. It is a tight fit
but I don't remember it being that tight. I would not
sand a rib either. Deburr, polish an edge, flute but
removing material would bother me in several ways, not
only are you removing material but the alcad surface.
Make sure the ribs are straight, really straight, I
have caught my self both under and over fluting.
Ken
Wings 90508
--- Paul Eastham wrote:
>
>
> Hi rvators,
>
>
> I have had a really tough time getting the HS skin
> clecoed to the
>
> skeleton. I have read about the problems with the
> nose ribs and I did
>
> encounter those as well (not before bending out the
> skin at the tip,
>
> alas). But on top of that, both of my spars and
> several main ribs
>
> seemed to be sitting up very high in comparison to
> the skin, as if the
>
> skin was a little too small. A lot of pushing down
> on the skeleton
>
> and removal of all the spar vinyl *just barely* got
> me close enough to
>
> put clecos in (I hope) without damage. They were
> not perfectly lined
>
> up by any means! Maybe 20% blocked or so in some
> places. I even had
>
> to move around on the rivet lines looking for closer
> holes to bring
>
> everything else into alignment.
>
>
>
>
>
> I do not have a very warm fuzzy feeling about this.
> I know this is a
>
> "stressed skin" structure but this seems a bit much.
>
>
>
>
>
> I have read about sanding ribs in the archives, but
> in order to
>
> reduce them such that the spars fit better, it would
> seem that it
>
> would rapidly weaken the rib at the flange bend. I
> have also rechecked
>
> the jig, skin alignment in the jig, and fluting on
> all ribs.
>
>
>
>
> Any other advice? Or is the whole thing normally a
> tricky fit?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
Quoting: DThomas773(at)aol.com
> Paul,
> Did you remove the plastic on the inside of the skin?
> Dennis Thomas
No, the skins are still totally covered. Think that matters?
I guess I could see that moving the skins outward enough
to make things come up a little short at the top...
I always wondered about the sense of match-drilling with the
skin still on (here or anywhere else in the kit). The manual
says it's ok, but I don't quite believe it.
Or is it enough to match-drill with plastic on then just count on getting
a better fit once the plastic is all off for final assembly?
Paul
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com> |
| Subject: | Rib to Spar Rivets--Thank You |
Many thanks to all those who have written about my rib to spar rivet
problem.
Things that will be changed when I try again are.
1, A 3X rebuilt rivet gun just ordered from The Yard
2, A long straight rivet set.
3, I will also try to find some hockey shin tape to put on the rivet
head.
4, Turn the spars upside down so that I will be looking at the factory
head during the riveting process.
5, Remove some the wooden spar supports so the spar will flex slightly
during riveting.
6, Try a starting pressure of about 40 psi.
7, Smooth out some of the smileys on the ribs. The spar was undamaged.
8, For some reason I had thought that the flow valve hat comes with a
gun kit was ball valve. So in the future I will turn it more than 180
degrees. I had thought the valve was rather ineffectual.
9, Make a small gauge to locate the center of the rivet, and remove the
bad rivet heads.
10, Then drive out the bad rivets with a punch.
I also liked the exhaust pipe anti rotate tool, which I will probably
try at some time.
Thanks for the many words of encouragement. My confidence has been
restored.
Warren
http://ahyup.com
90454 (Rib to Spar Rivets, again)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert watson <bob1629r(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-9A Tow Bar |
Ken Bartow in back of vans catalog under other suppliers
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Nicholson <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: RV9-List: RE: RV-9A Tow Bar
I use a "Deluxe Cessna Towbar" from Aircraft Spruce (P/N 13-01540)
Dave
N347SD (Res.)
On Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:27 PM, James Murray [SMTP:jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com]
wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the
> RV-9A??
>
> Jim Murray 90430
>
>
> --- RV9-List Digest Server
> wrote:
> > *
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03 |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
10/02/2003 06:15:05 PM,
Serialize complete at 10/02/2003 06:15:05 PM
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 00592D6386256DB3_
Jim,
I bought a Cessna style tow bar from Sproties that works fine on mine and
collapses down to something that will fit into the baggage compartment.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
James Murray
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
10/01/2003 04:27 PM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03
Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the
RV-9A??
Jim Murray 90430
--- RV9-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be
> found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file
> includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and
> features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file
> includes the plain ASCII
> version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed
> with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> RV9-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue
> 09/30/03: 2
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:58 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
> (Phil Birkelbach)
> 2. 08:49 PM - Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
> (Merems)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
>
> When I smiley a rivet like that I usually turn the
> air down a little bit.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com>
> Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>
>
>
> >
> > I have been happy with most of my rivets until
> now. During the riveting
> > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly
> deformed some of the
> > factory rivet heads. See them at
> http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
> > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would
> take 3 to 4 seconds to
> > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was
> paying much to much
> > attention to the shop head and ignoring the
> factory head.
> > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should
> I do to make this
> > better?
> >
> > Warren Hurd
> > 90454 Wings
> > http://www.ahyup.com
> > Mushroomed Rivets
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Merems" <merems(at)cox.net>
> ,
> ,
> ,
> Subject: RV9-List: Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
>
>
>
> Fellow builders.
>
> Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was
> called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1.
> This has caused some confusion and has been
> correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF
> http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf
>
> Sorry for the error.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
--=_alternative 00592D6386256DB3_
Jim,
I bought a Cessna style tow bar from Sproties
that works fine on mine and collapses down to something that will fit into the
baggage compartment.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
James Murray jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
10/01/2003 04:27 PM
Please respond to rv9-list
To:
rv9-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject:
RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/30/03
-- RV9-List message posted by: James Murray
jmurraymd(at)yahoo.com
Does anyone know where to get a hand tow bar for the
RV-9A??
Jim Murray 90430
--- RV9-List Digest Server
rv9-list-digest(at)matronics.com wrote:
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete RV9-List Digest can be also be
found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file
includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and
features Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file
includes the plain ASCII
version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed
with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2003-09-30.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
RV9-List Digest Archive
---
Total
Messages Posted Tue
09/30/03: 2
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:58 AM - Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
(Phil Birkelbach)
2. 08:49 PM - Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
(Merems)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: Phil Birkelbach phil(at)petrasoft.net
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
-- RV9-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach
phil(at)petrasoft.net
When I smiley a rivet like that I usually turn the
air down a little bit.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren W Hurd warren(at)ahyup.com
Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
-- RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd
warren(at)ahyup.com
I have been happy with most of my rivets until
now. During the riveting
of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly
deformed some of the
factory rivet heads. See them at
http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would
take 3 to 4 seconds to
make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was
paying much to much
attention to the shop head and ignoring the
factory head.
I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should
I do to make this
better?
Warren Hurd
90454 Wings
http://www.ahyup.com
Mushroomed Rivets
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: Merems merems(at)cox.net
rv7-list(at)matronics.com,
rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com,
RV-9A(at)yahoogroups.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV9-List: Corrected PDF link for DRDT-1
-- RV9-List message posted by: Merems
merems(at)cox.net
Fellow builders.
Due to a computer error an outdated PDF was
called-up when getting information about the DRDT-1.
This has caused some confusion and has been
correct. Here is the new DRDT-1 PDF
http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-1.pdf
Sorry for the error.
Paul
Contributions
any other
Forums.
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV9-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
__________________________________
--=_alternative 00592D6386256DB3_=--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com> |
Both wing boxes are now safely tucked into my garage. Tomorrow I
inventory them and move the parts and pieces to my
workshop/basement/aircraft factory.
For those of you working on your tail kit and need to pick up the boxes
yourself, one of the boxes will fit very nice in a small pickup (6 foot
bed) but the spar box is long, very long and for this you will need a
truck with an eight foot bed and still some of the spar box will stick
out the back. That said, both boxes will fit in a full size truck, as
it is wide enough to accommodate both.
Bill R.
Finishing the trim tab
SN: 90737
Future N941WR
Message
Both
wing boxes are
now safely tucked into my garage. Tomorrow I inventory them and
move the
parts and pieces to my workshop/basement/aircraft
factory.
For
those of you
working on your tail kit and need to pick up the boxes yourself, one of
the
boxes will fit very nice in a small pickup (6 foot bed) but the spar box
is
long, very long and for this you will need a truck with an eight foot
bed and
still some of the spar box will stick out the back. That said,
both boxes
will fit in a full size truck, as it is wide enough to accommodate
both.
Bill
R.
Finishing the trim
tab
SN:
90737
Future
N941WR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Jerry Calvert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jerry Calvert
Subject: Oil Door
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv6@cox.net.10.04.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
Regarding the tight-fitting HS skin...
Dennis guessed right, here is a reply from Van's for the record:
The skeleton is a pretty tight fit in the skin, you will need to remove
the vinyl from the skin and the spars to get the holes to line up. In
addition, it may be necessary to adjust the rib profile very slightly,
especially around the front to get the holes lined up. Using some
light grease on the ribs can also help the skin slide across them
more easily, and avoid scratching the skin.
Sure wish they had put that in the manual. It clearly says it is ok to leave
the skin on during drilling.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Baseball and elevator rivets |
Is there anything better than listening to playoff baseball and squeezing
rivets in the garage on a 60 deg fall day?
Ok here is my question. On the elevator there is a rivet that holds the
outer skin to CW skin to elevator spar that is on the inside of the leading
edge bend. How did people squeeze/buck that puppy. I put a blind one in
the bottom, but I'd like a flush one on the top.
Also any tips for approaching the elevator trailing edge would be
appreciated.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Cheers,
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
I'm trying to install the fuel line between the fuel selector and the
tank. If the line is run through the lower bracket as illustrated it runs
right into the gear weldment. If it is run through the upper gromet it
wanders about with many turns. If you just run it under the outboard
bracket it still wanders around. No problem with the RV9 because the gear
weldment is somewhere else. I'm thinking about runing neoprene between
the fuel selector and fuel tank. What think you oh wise one's? what can I
do to keep my fuel line from looking like a bent up twisted pretzel.
Joe RV9A Thank fuel line.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tod Watkins" <twatkins(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Fuel line |
Joe.. I just did this and found the same thing.. I moved the fuel line to
middle hole.. the brake line 1/4" also hits if put in the bottom hole and
was unacceptable to me so I moved that one to the top hole and they fit in
there real nice.. the bottom hole I have reserved for the wiring that will
be going that way.. and that will be flexible enough it won't matter and can
be tye wrapped to the gear leg to hold it from wearing... you will find this
much easier and the lines then line up with the lightning holes in the gear
leg brace.. Good luck...
Tod
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Wiza" <planejoel(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV9-List: RV9A Fuel line
>
> I'm trying to install the fuel line between the fuel selector and the
> tank. If the line is run through the lower bracket as illustrated it runs
> right into the gear weldment. If it is run through the upper gromet it
> wanders about with many turns. If you just run it under the outboard
> bracket it still wanders around. No problem with the RV9 because the gear
> weldment is somewhere else. I'm thinking about runing neoprene between
> the fuel selector and fuel tank. What think you oh wise one's? what can I
> do to keep my fuel line from looking like a bent up twisted pretzel.
>
> Joe RV9A Thank fuel line.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Coldenhoff <rv9a_000(at)deru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Fuel line |
Tod Watkins wrote:
>
> Joe.. I just did this and found the same thing.. I moved the fuel line to
> middle hole.. the brake line 1/4" also hits if put in the bottom hole and
> was unacceptable to me so I moved that one to the top hole and they fit in
> there real nice.. the bottom hole I have reserved for the wiring that will
...
>>
>>I'm trying to install the fuel line between the fuel selector and the
>>tank. If the line is run through the lower bracket as illustrated it runs
>>right into the gear weldment. If it is run through the upper gromet it
>>wanders about with many turns. If you just run it under the outboard
>>bracket it still wanders around. No problem with the RV9 because the gear
...
I just installed my fuel lines also except I had the
additional problem of a third line to recirculate fuel
back to the tanks (Eggenfellner Subaru modification).
I ran the feed line through the top hole, enlarged the
middle hole for the return line, and put the brake line
through the bottom hole. On mine, I was able to bend the
brake line around the weldment with room to spare as it
exited the outboard bracket so there is no contact.
Not sure what you mean by "wander around with many turns"...
Aside from some mild bends to get through the weldment holes,
there is just a "Z" bend where the tube exits the fuse which
I made by hand. Aesthetically, it leaves a lot to be desired,
but on the other hand, that is what all those covers are for. :-)
--
Tim Coldenhoff
www.deru.com/~rv9a
90338 - plumbing/electrical/finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Brandes <mbrandes(at)irr.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel return line size |
Gang,
I'm starting on my fuel tanks and want to plan for a fuel return line in
case I go fuel-injected. Should the return line be the same size or larger
than the feed line? Seems logical that it would be the same size since it
will only return as much as supplied minus fuel burned. Am I missing
something?
Matthew
RV-9A (Wings - Tanks)
#90569
www.n523rv.com
ShopCam Online!
>
> I just installed my fuel lines also except I had the
> additional problem of a third line to recirculate fuel
> back to the tanks (Eggenfellner Subaru modification).
>
> I ran the feed line through the top hole, enlarged the
> middle hole for the return line, and put the brake line
> through the bottom hole. On mine, I was able to bend the
> brake line around the weldment with room to spare as it
> exited the outboard bracket so there is no contact.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "wander around with many turns"...
> Aside from some mild bends to get through the weldment holes,
> there is just a "Z" bend where the tube exits the fuse which
> I made by hand. Aesthetically, it leaves a lot to be
> desired, but on the other hand, that is what all those covers
> are for. :-)
> --
> Tim Coldenhoff
> www.deru.com/~rv9a
> 90338 - plumbing/electrical/finishing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line size |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
10/09/2003 04:51:49 PM,
Serialize complete at 10/09/2003 04:51:49 PM
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 0050DB8686256DBA_
Matthew,
That is how I did it for my fuel injected Subaru. I understand that the
injected Lycomings do not have a return line. You will also need a 6 port
fuel valve to return the excess fuel to the tank it came from.
I put my return line down near the nose of the tank so that the return
line could be run through the alignment holes in the tank ribs (used a 3/8
inch snap bushing to protect it). That way the hot fuel is dumped at least
one bay back and has time to cool off before making another trip around
the loop.
If your tanks are still open, you could run the return line all the say to
the far end for maximum cooling. Mine were already done so not an option
for me but one bay works fine.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
Matthew Brandes
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
10/09/2003 08:17 AM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: "'rv9-list(at)matronics.com'"
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel return line size
Gang,
I'm starting on my fuel tanks and want to plan for a fuel return line in
case I go fuel-injected. Should the return line be the same size or
larger
than the feed line? Seems logical that it would be the same size since it
will only return as much as supplied minus fuel burned. Am I missing
something?
Matthew
RV-9A (Wings - Tanks)
#90569
www.n523rv.com
--=_alternative 0050DB8686256DBA_
Matthew,
That is how I did it for my fuel injected Subaru.
I understand that the injected Lycomings do not have a return line. You
will also need a 6 port fuel valve to return the excess fuel to the tank it came
from.
I put my return line down near the nose of the
tank so that the return line could be run through the alignment holes
in the tank ribs (used a 3/8 inch snap bushing to protect it). That way the hot
fuel is dumped at least one bay back and has time to cool off before making
another trip around the loop.
If your tanks are still open, you could run
the return line all the say to the far end for maximum cooling. Mine were already
done so not an option for me but one bay works fine.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
Voice Supervisor
ATOFINA Petrochemicals Inc.
(281) 227-5550
Matthew Brandes mbrandes(at)irr.com
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
10/09/2003 08:17 AM
Please respond to rv9-list
To:
'rv9-list(at)matronics.com' rv9-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject:
RV9-List: Fuel return line size
-- RV9-List message posted by: Matthew
Brandes mbrandes(at)irr.com
Gang,
I'm starting on my fuel tanks and want to plan for a fuel return line in
case I go fuel-injected. Should the return line be the same size or larger
than the feed line? Seems logical that it would be the same size since it
will only return as much as supplied minus fuel burned. Am I missing
something?
Matthew
RV-9A (Wings - Tanks)
#90569
www.n523rv.com
--=_alternative 0050DB8686256DBA_=--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Fuel line |
| From: | Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer(at)pacbell.net> |
I asked Van's if it was OK to move the fuel line to the top hole. Here is
their answer:
"The FAA does not like wires run below fuel lines. That's why the
wire hole is at the top. Some builders have replaced the rigid lines
with flexible hose. We know that it's a pain to route the lines
through the gear leg brackets and the support ribs. I spoke to a
builder that did as you requested and used the top hole and his
inspector didn't say anything."
A question for those of you who put the fuel lines in the bottom--was it
really as difficult as it seems?
Mark Schrimmer
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Fuel line |
Any A&P knows not to run fuel lines above wiring, but I suggest that you
refrain from running ANY wiring along the front of the spar to begin with.
There is simply no need to run wires there. You can bring your wiring down
inside the side spar caps and route them under the seat floors from there.
I ran all antenna coax down my right spar cap and all airframe wiring down
the left spar cap. Works great. Just make sure you consider how far the
wings insert so you don't run into your wires. You can also run wires
along the center tunnel from firewall back if you need to.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Coldenhoff <rv9a_000(at)deru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line size |
Matthew Brandes wrote:
> I'm starting on my fuel tanks and want to plan for a fuel return line in
> case I go fuel-injected. Should the return line be the same size or larger
> than the feed line? Seems logical that it would be the same size since it
> will only return as much as supplied minus fuel burned. Am I missing
> something?
>
You are not missing anything - you can't return what
you are not fed.
For the Eggenfellner Subaru installation, the stock
feed lines are used which are 3/8" OD. The return lines
are slightly smaller at 5/16" OD.
You should really check with your (eventual) engine mfgr.
about fuel system modifications. In fact, I would not worry
about it too much until you are working on plumbing the fuselage.
By that time you should have your engine choice nailed down.
You can also delay sealing the cover plates onto your fuel
tank until you are sure about your engine choice and wether
the tanks will require mods. Just store your proseal in a cool
place...
--
Tim Coldenhoff
www.deru.com/~rv9a
90338 - plumbing/electrical/finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel return line size |
Hi Matthew,
Just a quick note, if you're using a Lycosaur with Bendix, AFP, or Ellsion
TBI, you don't need a return line.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Brandes
Subject: RV9-List: Fuel return line size
Gang,
I'm starting on my fuel tanks and want to plan for a fuel return line in
case I go fuel-injected. Should the return line be the same size or larger
than the feed line? Seems logical that it would be the same size since it
will only return as much as supplied minus fuel burned. Am I missing
something?
Matthew
RV-9A (Wings - Tanks)
#90569
www.n523rv.com
ShopCam Online!
>
> I just installed my fuel lines also except I had the
> additional problem of a third line to recirculate fuel
> back to the tanks (Eggenfellner Subaru modification).
>
> I ran the feed line through the top hole, enlarged the
> middle hole for the return line, and put the brake line
> through the bottom hole. On mine, I was able to bend the
> brake line around the weldment with room to spare as it
> exited the outboard bracket so there is no contact.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "wander around with many turns"...
> Aside from some mild bends to get through the weldment holes,
> there is just a "Z" bend where the tube exits the fuse which
> I made by hand. Aesthetically, it leaves a lot to be
> desired, but on the other hand, that is what all those covers
> are for. :-)
> --
> Tim Coldenhoff
> www.deru.com/~rv9a
> 90338 - plumbing/electrical/finishing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baseball and elevator rivets |
If you have some places that are hard to buck,ot in place of pop rivets
suggest cherry max..3214-4-2 is the size. they fit in a #40 dimple but the hole
is
enlarged to a #30. Work really well in those places near the ends of skin etc
where it is hard to reach My eaa tech guy liked them. I think airspruce has
them
Dick Migas RV9A, fuselage finished
If you have some places that are hard to buck,ot in place of pop rivets suggest
cherry max..3214-4-2 is the size. they fit in a #40 dimple but the hole is enlarged
to a #30. Work really well in those places near the ends of skin etc where
it is hard to reach My eaa tech guy liked them. I think airspruce has them
Dick Migas RV9A, fuselage finished
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Hobert" <terhobey(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A Fuel line |
Guys and Gals,
While on fuel questions, is there anyone out there that has used the S/W
float sending units and can tell me how to get the float rod to seat into
the plastic clips right before the shepard's hook bend? I made the 90
degree bend with the 3/4" length after and it all fits well, however the
radius of the bend seems to prevent the rodd from snapping into the clips on
the actuator arm.
I have made this bend as sharp as I think I can and even tried to clean up
the inside curve with sand paper, emery cloth and fine file. Still can't
seem to get in to seat and I don't want to put force in this area to much.
Thanks,
Terry Hobert 90680 Trying to get tanks finished up.
>From: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
>Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV9-List: Re: RV9A Fuel line
>Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:35:23 -0400
>
>
> Any A&P knows not to run fuel lines above wiring, but I suggest that you
>refrain from running ANY wiring along the front of the spar to begin with.
>There is simply no need to run wires there. You can bring your wiring down
>inside the side spar caps and route them under the seat floors from there.
>I ran all antenna coax down my right spar cap and all airframe wiring down
>the left spar cap. Works great. Just make sure you consider how far the
>wings insert so you don't run into your wires. You can also run wires
>along the center tunnel from firewall back if you need to.
>
>
Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today!
https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Slatt <Gary.Slatt(at)gestech.com> |
Mark...
Assuming my 7A fuse is identical to the 9A in this area,
by enlarging the lower hole on the bracket nearest the gear
weldment to accept a 1/2 snap bushing, the obstruction becomes
a non issue.
Regards,
Gary E Slatt
RV7A Fuse (N438GS)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Hobert" <terhobey(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel return line size |
Another question,
Concerning the ATO 035 X 3/8 fuel tubing. Can you get this from any local
type supplies? Or is it line that should be ordered from Van's or actual
aircraft supply vendors?
>From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
>Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV9-List: Fuel return line size
>Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:40:42 -0500
>
>
>Hi Matthew,
>
>Just a quick note, if you're using a Lycosaur with Bendix, AFP, or Ellsion
>TBI, you don't need a return line.
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>RV6's, Minneapolis
>
>http://www.steinair.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Brandes
>To: 'rv9-list(at)matronics.com'
>Subject: RV9-List: Fuel return line size
>
>
>Gang,
>
>I'm starting on my fuel tanks and want to plan for a fuel return line in
>case I go fuel-injected. Should the return line be the same size or larger
>than the feed line? Seems logical that it would be the same size since it
>will only return as much as supplied minus fuel burned. Am I missing
>something?
>
>Matthew
>RV-9A (Wings - Tanks)
>#90569
>www.n523rv.com
>ShopCam Online!
>
>
> >
> > I just installed my fuel lines also except I had the
> > additional problem of a third line to recirculate fuel
> > back to the tanks (Eggenfellner Subaru modification).
> >
> > I ran the feed line through the top hole, enlarged the
> > middle hole for the return line, and put the brake line
> > through the bottom hole. On mine, I was able to bend the
> > brake line around the weldment with room to spare as it
> > exited the outboard bracket so there is no contact.
> >
> > Not sure what you mean by "wander around with many turns"...
> > Aside from some mild bends to get through the weldment holes,
> > there is just a "Z" bend where the tube exits the fuse which
> > I made by hand. Aesthetically, it leaves a lot to be
> > desired, but on the other hand, that is what all those covers
> > are for. :-)
> > --
> > Tim Coldenhoff
> > www.deru.com/~rv9a
> > 90338 - plumbing/electrical/finishing
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line size |
Hi Terry,
I think the stuff you get in the kit is the same as what you ca buy at the
hardware store.
Dennis Thomas
Hi Terry,
I think the stuff you get in the kit is the same as what you ca buy at the hardware
store.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Some time ago there was a discussion about the parts provided in the FWF kit
for carb heat. It ended (I think) with the conclusion that VANS do not
provide parts to take air off the exhaust but just take air out of the lower
cowl. Yet they sell a heat muff!
If this is correct, my question is what is the concensus on the efficacy of
this? I would have thought the air barely warm enough for this purpose?
Steve
#90360
Cowl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Cowl Heat Protector |
I need to order some cowl heat protector from VANS. This does not seem to be
included in the FWF kit but I seem to remember was reccomended in RVator
some time ago. Anyone got a clue how much I will need? (It sells 30" wide
and by the foot.)
Steve
#90360
Cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <klwerner(at)comcast.net> |
That is incorrect.Vans offers a carbheat muff that attaches to the front X-over
exhaust pipe and supplies (somewhat) heated air to the airfilter box.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sampson
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 10:59 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Carb Heat
Some time ago there was a discussion about the parts provided in the FWF kit
for carb heat. It ended (I think) with the conclusion that VANS do not
provide parts to take air off the exhaust but just take air out of the lower
cowl. Yet they sell a heat muff!
If this is correct, my question is what is the concensus on the efficacy of
this? I would have thought the air barely warm enough for this purpose?
Steve
#90360
Cowl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Heat Protector |
Steve: I ordered 4 feet of the stuff. It was 'enough'. You have to cover
those areas near the exhaust completely - I have the crossover pipes and 4
feet was enough. If you want to cover the entire lower cowl (for looks)
then order 5 feet. If you want to cover the upper cowl (for whatever
reason) then order 3 or 4 feet more. I am happy with 4 feet in total.
However, I did prime both upper and lower cowls and painted them with white
heat-tolerant paint before applying the cowl heat protector. Happy
building.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90 plus % Complete - electrical
>> I need to order some cowl heat protector from VANS. This does not seem to
be included in the FWF kit but I seem to remember was reccomended in RVator
some time ago. Anyone got a clue how much I will need? (It sells 30" wide
and by the foot.) <<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Steve and Werner.
Bear in mind that within two or three inches of the carb heat system is the
degree temp. Vans has a lot of planes flying with this system.
Being a northerner, I have more caution concerning the cabin heat. I am a
Canadian who will be flying X-C in winter. This system looks weak for this.
I may buy the end plates from ACS for constructing the second heat box -
which includes BOTH exhaust pipes. If necessary, I may add a couple of
Delorne seat heat/vibrator units. I may test one in my car. God luck.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90 plus % Complete - Wiring
>That is incorrect.Vans offers a carbheat muff that attaches to the front
>
>
> Some time ago there was a discussion about the parts provided in the FWF
kit
> for carb heat. It ended (I think) with the conclusion that VANS do not
> provide parts to take air off the exhaust but just take air out of the
lower
> cowl. Yet they sell a heat muff!
>
> If this is correct, my question is what is the concensus on the efficacy
of
> this? I would have thought the air barely warm enough for this purpose?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
Thanks all for your comments on the fuel line. I ran the port side
through the bottom hole on the first bracket and down under the outboard
bracket with a stand off., Ran out of tubing for the starboard
side,ordered some more from Vans (Pretzels in the trash can)
Joe RV9A installing tail feathers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Heat Protector |
I got 4ft by the 30inch and have some left over. I think 3 foot
would do ya.
- Andy
---------- Original Message
----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:59:21 +0100
>
>I need to order some cowl heat protector from VANS. This
does not seem to be
>included in the FWF kit but I seem to remember was
reccomended in RVator
>some time ago. Anyone got a clue how much I will need? (It
sells 30" wide
>and by the foot.)
>
>Steve
>#90360
>Cowl
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | MIL-T-43435B Lacing Cord at a 25% Cost Savings |
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com
I have access to "Brand New" (in original packaging)
MIL-T-43435B Lacing Cord, Type 2 (Polyester / Hi
Temp), Finish C (Synthetic Rubber or Elastomer, NOT
Waxed), Size 3 (50 lb min strength; 0.085" wide x
0.014" thick). This Cord is used extensively by
avionic shops and airframe manufacturers to tie
individual electrical wires into bundles for their
avionics, etc.
* Least expensive way to make wire bundles.
* Will not cut into wires like Dental Floss used
by some Builders, as it is "flat".
* Higher Temp rating (-73 Deg C to 177 Deg C)
than Type 1 (-55 Deg C to 121 Deg C) that is
sold by Aircraft Spruce and Chief Aircraft for
$21 per Spool.
* Each Spool contains 500 yards of White or Blue
Polyester Cord. (Share with other Builders.)
* Excellent "Knot" retention.
* See: www.versatileindustrial.com/gudebrod.html
for additional info / pictures.
* Will sell for $15 per Spool - includes
shipping in the US.
If interested E-Mail me off line at -
gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com
Video Attachment
Garey Wittich has sent you a video.
Please go to
http://mediaframe.yahoo.com/mf/spotlife/o?.auth=J1X2HgMJ9RN8GSoUSNHJhA--&id= document.Compose.To.focus();
document.Compose.ATT.value =
to view the video.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Cowl Heat Protector |
Ernest/Andy - thanks for the input. Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Kells
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Cowl Heat Protector
Steve: I ordered 4 feet of the stuff. It was 'enough'.
PS Ernest, I didnt understand " Bear in mind that within two or three inches
of the carb heat system is the degree temp."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Werner, by saying "incorrect" are you saying I should have a carb heat muff
in the FWF kit? Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
klwerner(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Carb Heat
That is incorrect.Vans offers a carbheat muff that attaches to the front
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sampson
To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 10:59 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Carb Heat
Some time ago there was a discussion about the parts provided in the FWF
kit
for carb heat. It ended (I think) with the conclusion that VANS do not
provide parts to take air off the exhaust but just take air out of the
lower
cowl. Yet they sell a heat muff!
If this is correct, my question is what is the concensus on the efficacy
of
this? I would have thought the air barely warm enough for this purpose?
Steve
#90360
Cowl.
________________________________________________________________________________
Someone posted some pictures of a heat muff that stradles both crossover
pipes recently. I looked like a good idea to me and easy to make. I made a quick
sketch in my brain. Maybe whoever posted the pictures could do so again.
I don't think you could get enough heat just pulling free air from inside the
cowl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bare Aluminum Cleaner |
| From: | Brice Bowman <brice(at)earshotaudiopost.com> |
Does anyone have any recommendations on a basic cleaner for bare alclad?
Just finished my empennage and wanted to clean it up before storing it away.
It will eventually be painted, so I don't want to use any wax...just get the
fingerprints and rivet gun oil splatter off. Everything I've tried so far
leaves nasty streaks. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Brice Bowman
Earshot Audio Post
Indianapolis, Indiana
(317) 803-3727
RV-9A #90620
Finished empennage, just received standard wing kit
(Holy crap...there's alot of parts in there!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bare Aluminum Cleaner |
While its nice to have things spotless, I wouldnt worry about it as long as
there is nothing on it that will attack the alclad, salt,acid or things like
that, water that has chemicals in it will cause problems. Most anything that
you use will leave something on the alumium which will have to be removed
with an acid etcing bath befor painting to give the alumium tooth for the
paint to stick. I would just use grease remover for paint that you can get
at the local auto body paint store. Boyd PS I used to paint airplanes for a
living years ago.
-------Original Message-------
From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:42:59 AM
Subject: RV9-List: Bare Aluminum Cleaner
Does anyone have any recommendations on a basic cleaner for bare alclad?
Just finished my empennage and wanted to clean it up before storing it away.
It will eventually be painted, so I don't want to use any wax...just get the
fingerprints and rivet gun oil splatter off. Everything I've tried so far
leaves nasty streaks. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Brice Bowman
Earshot Audio Post
Indianapolis, Indiana
(317) 803-3727
RV-9A #90620
Finished empennage, just received standard wing kit
(Holy crap...there's alot of parts in there!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Heat Protector |
Steve: Good catch on my statement. I was trying to say something like "
Bear in mind that within two or three inches of the carb heat system is the
two two-inch cross over pipes with about 1,000 degree temp."
BTW: I handcrafted two heat shields to protect the non-metal part of the
carb heat system (don't know if this is necessary).
Sorry about the confusion. My computer is dying - it sometimes hangs up the
keyboard if it tries to do another task. I plan to buy the AnywhereMAP
system with an IPAQ. I am trying not to upgrade my PC until I'm flying.
Then I just might get a portable as my only other PC. Getting so close to
this point that I get really itchy at times. Good luck building! do not
archive
>
> PS Ernest, I didn't understand " Bear in mind that within two or three
inches
> of the carb heat system is the degree temp."
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Grand Rapids 4000 |
The GR 4000 is unassuming and inexpensive but seems to have what I need to
run an O-320. Does anyone on the list have experience of the unit? I would
be interested in comments. My concern is that once you buy it there are lots
of mutually exclusive issues. What I want is the following plus intuitive
access to them:
> Manifold Pressure
> Tachometer
> 4 Exhaust Gas Temperatures
> 4 Cylinder Head Temperatures
> Oil Temperature
> Oil Pressure
> Fuel Pressure
> Fuel Level (using float-type sending units)
> Flow rate
> Fuel remaining
> Time until empty.
> Outside Air Temperature
> Carburetor Temperature
> Voltmeter
> Hour meter
> Flight Timer with Interval Timer
The last two lines are not so important.
If it can, this unit a Dynon some comms and GPS should be most of what I
need.
Steve
#90360
UK
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids 4000 |
| From: | "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com> |
10/15/2003 09:29:30 PM,
Serialize complete at 10/15/2003 09:29:30 PM
Steve,
Send your request to Greg at GRT. As I remember the 4000, it should do
most if not all that you want. The nice thing is that you can set limits
on things like CHT and forget them until the "BIG RED LIGHT" comes on at
the temp you have set. It takes a little getting use to not checking
every minute and trusting the machine to let you know when something is
out of line but that should come very quick. You might look at the GRT
panel (saw this at Oshkosh and looked pretty good) also. Then it would
all work together.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
"Steve Sampson"
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
10/15/2003 01:48 PM
Please respond to rv9-list
To:
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: Grand Rapids 4000
The GR 4000 is unassuming and inexpensive but seems to have what I need to
run an O-320. Does anyone on the list have experience of the unit? I would
be interested in comments. My concern is that once you buy it there are
lots
of mutually exclusive issues. What I want is the following plus intuitive
access to them:
> Manifold Pressure
> Tachometer
> 4 Exhaust Gas Temperatures
> 4 Cylinder Head Temperatures
> Oil Temperature
> Oil Pressure
> Fuel Pressure
> Fuel Level (using float-type sending units)
> Flow rate
> Fuel remaining
> Time until empty.
> Outside Air Temperature
> Carburetor Temperature
> Voltmeter
> Hour meter
> Flight Timer with Interval Timer
The last two lines are not so important.
If it can, this unit a Dynon some comms and GPS should be most of what I
need.
Steve
#90360
UK
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids 4000 |
Steve,
I am on my second GRT unit. First one in a minimax ultralight, second in my RV9.
They work great and are everything that is needed.
Yes it will do EVERYTHING that you listed below, so that's not a problem. It also
has multiple custom configuration pages that can display combined data on one
page. I really like mine!
My "default" page is:
rpm/MP OAT highestEGT/CHT
OilTemp/OilPres carbT
Here's a pic of how I mounted mine.
http://www.affordablepanels.com/images/andyair2.jpg
- Andy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:48:23 +0100
>
>
>The GR 4000 is unassuming and inexpensive but seems to have what I need to
>run an O-320. Does anyone on the list have experience of the unit? I would
>be interested in comments. My concern is that once you buy it there are lots
>of mutually exclusive issues. What I want is the following plus intuitive
>access to them:
>
>
>> Manifold Pressure
>> Tachometer
>> 4 Exhaust Gas Temperatures
>> 4 Cylinder Head Temperatures
>> Oil Temperature
>> Oil Pressure
>> Fuel Pressure
>> Fuel Level (using float-type sending units)
>> Flow rate
>> Fuel remaining
>> Time until empty.
>> Outside Air Temperature
>> Carburetor Temperature
>> Voltmeter
>> Hour meter
>> Flight Timer with Interval Timer
>
>The last two lines are not so important.
>
> If it can, this unit a Dynon some comms and GPS should be most of what I
>need.
>
>Steve
>#90360
>UK
>
>---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids 4000 |
Andy, from you panel picture I see that you installed an Electronics
International fuel monitor. Why would you do that instead of using the
Grand Rapids unit FloScan option?
Leland
Doing upholstery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids 4000 |
Well, at the time I wanted a seperate interface for flow
information... Not really sure why now, just got focused on it I
guess. Now looking at it I would go with GRT for it. I still like
having a seperate fuel gauge.
- Andy
---------- Original Message
----------------------------------
From: Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:12:28 -0700
>
>Andy, from you panel picture I see that you installed an
Electronics
>International fuel monitor. Why would you do that instead of
using the
>Grand Rapids unit FloScan option?
>Leland
>Doing upholstery
>
>
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jen Coull" <cfiijen(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bare Aluminum Cleaner |
I used denatured alcohol to clean the fingerprints & dirt off just before
priming.
Jen Coull
>From: "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bare Aluminum Cleaner
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:57:34 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
>
>
> While its nice to have things spotless, I wouldnt worry about it as long
>as
>there is nothing on it that will attack the alclad, salt,acid or things
>like
>that, water that has chemicals in it will cause problems. Most anything
>that
>you use will leave something on the alumium which will have to be removed
>with an acid etcing bath befor painting to give the alumium tooth for the
>paint to stick. I would just use grease remover for paint that you can get
>at the local auto body paint store. Boyd PS I used to paint airplanes for a
>living years ago.
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:42:59 AM
>To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV9-List: Bare Aluminum Cleaner
>
>
>Does anyone have any recommendations on a basic cleaner for bare alclad?
>Just finished my empennage and wanted to clean it up before storing it
>away.
>It will eventually be painted, so I don't want to use any wax...just get
>the
>fingerprints and rivet gun oil splatter off. Everything I've tried so far
>leaves nasty streaks. Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
>
>Brice Bowman
>Earshot Audio Post
>Indianapolis, Indiana
>(317) 803-3727
>
>RV-9A #90620
>Finished empennage, just received standard wing kit
>(Holy crap...there's alot of parts in there!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bare Aluminum Cleaner |
I never heard of using such and don't think that any painter would either,
use grease and wax remover for cleaning you can obtain it from an auto body
paint store and also follow the complete maufacures instructions on prepping
before priming so things stick, like I said I used to paint airplanes and
just wiping off aluminum is a good way to loose your paint job right into
the wind.
-------Original Message-------
From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2003 6:37:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bare Aluminum Cleaner
I used denatured alcohol to clean the fingerprints & dirt off just before
priming.
Jen Coull
>From: "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bare Aluminum Cleaner
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:57:34 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
>
>
> While its nice to have things spotless, I wouldnt worry about it as long
>as
>there is nothing on it that will attack the alclad, salt,acid or things
>like
>that, water that has chemicals in it will cause problems. Most anything
>that
>you use will leave something on the alumium which will have to be removed
>with an acid etcing bath befor painting to give the alumium tooth for the
>paint to stick. I would just use grease remover for paint that you can get
>at the local auto body paint store. Boyd PS I used to paint airplanes for a
>living years ago.
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:42:59 AM
>To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV9-List: Bare Aluminum Cleaner
>
>
>Does anyone have any recommendations on a basic cleaner for bare alclad?
>Just finished my empennage and wanted to clean it up before storing it
>away.
>It will eventually be painted, so I don't want to use any wax...just get
>the
>fingerprints and rivet gun oil splatter off. Everything I've tried so far
>leaves nasty streaks. Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
>
>Brice Bowman
>Earshot Audio Post
>Indianapolis, Indiana
>(317) 803-3727
>
>RV-9A #90620
>Finished empennage, just received standard wing kit
>(Holy crap...there's alot of parts in there!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Heat Protector |
Steve: Good catch on my statement. I was trying to say something like "
Bear in mind that within two or three inches of the carb heat system is the
two two-inch cross over pipes with about 1,000 degree temp."
BTW: I handcrafted two heat shields to protect the non-metal part of the
carb heat system (don't know if this is necessary).
Sorry about the confusion. My computer is dying - it sometimes hangs up the
keyboard if it tries to do another task. I plan to buy the AnywhereMAP
system with an IPAQ. I am trying not to upgrade my PC until I'm flying.
Then I just might get a portable as my only other PC. Getting so close to
this point that I get really itchy at times. Good luck building! do not
archive
>
> PS Ernest, I didn't understand " Bear in mind that within two or three
inches
> of the carb heat system is the degree temp."
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bare Aluminum Cleaner |
I used the Alcohol method the same as Jen, for cleaning before priming interior
parts. I didn't see any need to use the more extensive "Pre-painting" prep
just to store the parts during construction. Seems it would all have to be
thoroughly prepped again just before painting anyway.
Gary
40 plus hours and loving it.
Quoting Boyd Butler :
>
> I never heard of using such and don't think that any painter would either,
> use grease and wax remover for cleaning you can obtain it from an auto body
> paint store and also follow the complete maufacures instructions on prepping
> before priming so things stick, like I said I used to paint airplanes and
> just wiping off aluminum is a good way to loose your paint job right into
> the wind.
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, October 16, 2003 6:37:05 PM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bare Aluminum Cleaner
>
>
> I used denatured alcohol to clean the fingerprints & dirt off just before
> priming.
> Jen Coull
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Grand Rapids 4000 |
Andy, thanks for that. Leland asked the one query I had and you have
answered that.I was a bit surprised when I saw the fuel management stuff in
the pictures, but your reply to Leland all made sense. Looks like I will
habve a really simple, and light, panel! I was surprised that not more
people had experience to report. Perhaps more money is better!
Thanks, Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Strong's" <tstrong(at)ida.net> |
What is the down side for leaking checking the tanks with water? Could you
fill the tank
1/3 or so and then just check for leaks then turn the tank over and check
again?
Will the water do any lasting harm to the inside of the tank?
Thanks,
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Grand Rapids 4000 |
Speaking of more money is better... I think the cat's meow
would be GRT's new graphic head unit attached to the EIS!
That looks like just the coolest interface. As soon as I find
some free money laying around count me in!
- Andy
---------- Original Message
----------------------------------
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:22:58 +0100
>
>Andy, thanks for that. Leland asked the one query I had and
you have
>answered that.I was a bit surprised when I saw the fuel
management stuff in
>the pictures, but your reply to Leland all made sense. Looks
like I will
>habve a really simple, and light, panel! I was surprised that
not more
>people had experience to report. Perhaps more money is
better!
>
>Thanks, Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Checking tanks |
1. Condensation on the outside may confuse the issue.
2. Water will cause "some" corrosion.
3. It will be very hard to get all the water out.
4. The tanks will become very heavy, even with on 1/3 full (50# of water).
5. Normal tap water has a certain amount of minerals in it that will be
left behind when the water film evaporates.
Most people use very low air pressure (8 to 10 inches water column) and a
soap solution on the outside to determine if there are any leaks.
Make a manometer with about 6 feet of 1/4" clar plastic tubing formed in a
"U" shape and filed 1/2 way with colored water. A fish tank valve make a
good way to connect a hand pump to the system so you can control how much
pressure you put in. If there are no leaks and the temperature remains
cnstant, the water level will stay at the same place on the tube.
Dave Nicholson
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Strong's" <tstrong(at)ida.net>
Subject: RV9-List: Checking tanks
>
> What is the down side for leaking checking the tanks with water? Could
you
> fill the tank
> 1/3 or so and then just check for leaks then turn the tank over and check
> again?
> Will the water do any lasting harm to the inside of the tank?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Checking tanks |
Dave, How heavy do you think the tank will be when it is full of fuel?
All of your points are correct but hardly likely to effect the life of the tank.
Remember, one has to sump tanks to remove condensation.
The heavy loading of the water will tell you if the load of gas will open up a
leak. But your tank will experience even heavier loads when pulling "Gs".
With that said, the air pressure is nice. Personally, I use lung pressure as a
pump can cause problems. One foot of water head is about 0.4 psi.
If I remember right FAA certs require 3.5 psi which can destroy an unsupported
tank.
The FAR part 23 is
23.965 Fuel tank tests.
(a) Each fuel tank must be able to withstand the following pressures without failure
or leakage:
(1) For each conventional metal tank and nonmetallic tank with walls not supported
by the airplane structure, a pressure of 3.5 p.s.i., or that pressure developed
during maximum ultimate acceleration with a full tank, whichever is greater.
(2) For each integral tank, the pressure developed during the maximum limit acceleration
of the airplane with a full tank, with simultaneous application of the
critical limit structural loads.
(3) For each nonmetallic tank with walls supported by the airplane structure and
constructed in an acceptable manner using acceptable basic tank material, and
with actual or simulated support conditions, a pressure of 2 p.s.i. for the
first tank of a specific design. The supporting structure must be designed for
the critical loads occurring in the flight or landing strength conditions combined
with the fuel pressure loads resulting from the corresponding accelerations.
(b) Each fuel tank with large, unsupported, or unstiffened flat surfaces,whose
failure or deformation could cause fuel leakage, must be able to withstand the
following test without leakage, failure, or excessive deformation of the tank
walls:
(1) Each complete tank assembly and its support must be vibration tested while
mounted to simulate the actual installation.
(2) Except as specified in paragraph (b)(4) of this section, the tank assembly
must be vibrated for 25 hours at a total displacement of not less than 1/32 of
an inch (unless another displacement is substantiated) while 2/3 filled with
water or other suitable test fluid.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nicholson" <dnick2(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Checking tanks
>
> 1. Condensation on the outside may confuse the issue.
> 2. Water will cause "some" corrosion.
> 3. It will be very hard to get all the water out.
> 4. The tanks will become very heavy, even with on 1/3 full (50# of water).
> 5. Normal tap water has a certain amount of minerals in it that will be
> left behind when the water film evaporates.
>
> Most people use very low air pressure (8 to 10 inches water column) and a
> soap solution on the outside to determine if there are any leaks.
>
> Make a manometer with about 6 feet of 1/4" clar plastic tubing formed in a
> "U" shape and filed 1/2 way with colored water. A fish tank valve make a
> good way to connect a hand pump to the system so you can control how much
> pressure you put in. If there are no leaks and the temperature remains
> cnstant, the water level will stay at the same place on the tube.
>
> Dave Nicholson
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Strong's" <tstrong(at)ida.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV9-List: Checking tanks
>
>
> >
> > What is the down side for leaking checking the tanks with water? Could
> you
> > fill the tank
> > 1/3 or so and then just check for leaks then turn the tank over and check
> > again?
> > Will the water do any lasting harm to the inside of the tank?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Grand Rapids 4000 |
Andy - yes it looks cool but does it REALLY add anything? I think in reality
if the GR red light is not on one should spend ALL ones time looking out the
window. Plus, as the photo of St Helens (or is it Shasta), on your web sight
shows, the view outside is free and worth 1000 times more!
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: RE: RV9-List: Grand Rapids 4000
Speaking of more money is better... I think the cat's meow
would be GRT's new graphic head unit attached to the EIS!
That looks like just the coolest interface. As soon as I find
some free money laying around count me in!
- Andy
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I agree with Ralph. The surface tension of water is much greater than fuel.
Really, I feel the easy way is to connect a water manometer to the vent line,
and screw a tire valve in the drain fitting. CAREFULLY pressurize your tank
with the air hose to about 12 or 15 inches of water column. The tank volume is
great enough that if you go easy, it won't suddenly go to several pounds and
blow your tank up like a football.
The key is, put a digital thermometer near the tank. Temperature changes make
the water manometer go up and down a lot. But that is good.....it means it is
sensitive to very small leaks. Leave it sit for a few days, and note the water
column at various temps. When the temp is the same, the level should be the
same if it is not leaking. You can lightly grease the fuel cap O-rings and
make sure they are adjusted snug.
Mine sat for nearly two weeks, and still showed within a half inch of the same
pressure at 70 degrees. They have been full of fuel for a month and a half,
and do not leak. However, when I'm flying, the fuel level drops about 6
gallons per hour!
Gary
Quoting Ralph Cloud :
>
>
> Cy, as always your answer is right on. However, one thing you did not
> address...
>
> Blood is thicker than water... and... wanter is thicker than AvGas. The
> fuel will seep through when the water wont!
>
> Ralph
> Emp to Wings.. Livermore
>
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| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Checking tanks |
I used a water manometer in testing for fuel tank leaks. (A water
manometer is just a water-filled loop having one end connected to the
fuel outlet and the other end open to the air.) Since the temperature in
my garage varies a lot, it was useful to know how much the pressure
changes in a fuel tank as the temperature varies. At sea level and a
temperature of 68 degrees Fahrenheit, the change in pressure as measured
with a water manometer is very nearly 3/4 of an inch of water for each
Fahrenheit degree of change.
For other conditions, the perfect gas equation can be used. Using the
perfect gas equation shows that the change in pressure per change in
temperature is approximately equal to starting pressure divided by the
starting temperature, P/T, where the pressure P is conveniently measured
in inches of water column and the temperature T is measured in degrees
Kelvin. Kelvin temperature is equal to the temperature in Celsius (often
called Centigrade) degrees plus the number 273. An atmospheric pressure
of 14.7 psi is equal to 407 inches of water (and it is also equal to
29.92 inches of Mercury).
I tried well over a dozen times to seal my gas tank caps. I finally
found that tightening the caps and wrapping them in a sheet of plastic
wrap sealed them well enough for a few days of pressure testing. I
turned my air compressor down to a trickle and used it to pressure the
tank and then capped off the vent outlet. It was useful to have the to
surface of the tank horizontal so that soapy water could stand in the
cap and show bubbles if it leaked. The caps are tightened by loosening
the nut on the bottom and then clockwise rotating the top and bottom cap
portions. I also put Vaseline on the O-rings.
Leland
Awaiting an O320 from Van's
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
Both Steve Sampson and I find that our top and bottom cowls do not fit
well in the front. Here is a link from an RV7 builder that shows the
same problem.
http://our-rv7a.com/finishing_kit/finishing_kit101603.htm
I had to sand my cowl down with 80 grit paper until there were holes in
the fiberglass. This got the mismatch down to 1/16". Now I will
reinforce the backside of the cowling with more glass.
Leland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jen Coull" <cfiijen(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bare Aluminum Cleaner |
Maybe I should clarify some things....
I was recommending the best way to clean off the aluminum, not prep for
painting.
I prime with alodine and scuff the surface thoroughly with a red scotch
brite pad.
After that, it is cleaned well with dawn dish soap and water. Next I use the
alcohol to clean
off any last bit of fingerprints. Before alodine, the surface must be acid
etched and then
thoroughly rinsed. After this it is dunked in an alodine tank, then rinsed
and air dryed.
Since I live in Florida (salty air), several tech advisors have also suggest
an epoxy primer
on top of that. So I am using Sherwin Williams Mil-Spec Aerospace Primer.
I am applying this with an HVLP sprayer and getting great results. Lots of
work? Oh yeah.
Jen
#90349
Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed
Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers.
https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
"RV-9A @ Yahoo"
| Subject: | Gear leg pictures |
There was a query for gear leg fairing pictures...
Well here you go.
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/Fairings
- Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | pneumatic squeezer tips? |
Hi all,
I had quite an awful time with my newly-acquired (but rather old and rickety)
cp-214 pneumatic squeezer the other day. The worst of it was that I squeezed a
ring in one of my attach angles when trying to adjust the set after changing
yokes, but that was my fault and my first scream-out-loud RV error. Oh well,
I'm now a member of the build-it-again club...
But the problem I'm looking for help with is that the squeezer often "kicks" in
one direction or the other as it finishes squeezing the (AD4) rivet, leaving me
with a slightly sloped shop head. In all cases they are within the mil-spec
(i.e. .05 to .07 head thickness for an AD4) but they don't look very neat, and
when they're all suboptimal like this I start to worry.
Is this at all a problem?
Any tips to keep things straight?
I've tried eyeballing it as much as possible, making sure the shop-head-side
hits dead center on the die (which is hard), and holding the manufactured-side
of the yoke down as much as possible. These help a little but the results are
not as good as I would like.
Thanks for any advice!
Paul
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
I put a balloon on the vent fitting then put in about 2 lbs of air in the
gas fitting and used soap suds to find leaks on the outside.
Joe RV9A wing leveler.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> |
, ,
| Subject: | Panel Items FOR SALE |
I have a few items for sale which I will not be installing. All of the items are
new and in their original package. The price includes shipping.
These are:
A. NAVAID CONTROL UNIT (AP-1) with GPS sterring from Porcine - $675
B. LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR (LRI) with heat probe - $400
C. RST-523 MARKER BEACON KIT- $85.00
D. FLIGHTCOM 403-D - sold
E. GRETZ AERO GPS ANTENNA - $55.00
You can see the items at this link: http://www.affordablepanels.com/forsale.htm
Fabian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
Has anyone out there used cam locks instead of the wire hinge used the
wire hinge on my RV6A, it became a real hassle think the vertical part on
the lower cowl is fine hinged.
RV9A Strobes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Joe, I have a friend with a -6 with Camlocks in the UK. He is pleased with
it, though I gather he has some 'bulging' in flight between the Camlocks. He
swears by them. I am using hinges. Anything you want me to ask him? Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mcmahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl fitting |
Yep
Check this out !!
John McMahon (near paint RV6)
Joe Wiza wrote:
>
>Has anyone out there used cam locks instead of the wire hinge used the
>wire hinge on my RV6A, it became a real hassle think the vertical part on
>the lower cowl is fine hinged.
>
>RV9A Strobes
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
My solution was to use the hinges per plans, except on the upper corners where
the hinge pins are hard to get in and out. I stopped the top hinges before the
sharper radius, and put four screws around the corner, with Tinnerman anchor
nuts. You could use camlocks in place of the screws if you prefer.
I like this method, because I feel the hinges support things better, and my
hinge pins are easy to get in and out.
Gary
Quoting Steve Sampson :
>
> Joe, I have a friend with a -6 with Camlocks in the UK. He is pleased with
> it, though I gather he has some 'bulging' in flight between the Camlocks. He
> swears by them. I am using hinges. Anything you want me to ask him? Steve.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Baffles & Plenum |
Has anyone built an aluminium plenum rather than use the rubbers to
interface the baffles to the upper cowl? It does not look as though it would
be too hard to do. Thoughts?
Steve
#90360
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowl fitting |
| From: | Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
Steve, how much space between the camlocks,
Joe RV9A
writes:
>
>
> Joe, I have a friend with a -6 with Camlocks in the UK. He is
> pleased with
> it, though I gather he has some 'bulging' in flight between the
> Camlocks. He
> swears by them. I am using hinges. Anything you want me to ask him?
> Steve.
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Cloud" <rv9ralph(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Baffles & Plenum |
Check the archives. I seem to remember something on the photo post of an
aluminum (or aluminium) plenum
Ralph
wings... kinda
Livermore, CA
do no archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Sampson
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:01 AM
> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV9-List: Baffles & Plenum
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone built an aluminium plenum rather than use the rubbers to
> interface the baffles to the upper cowl? It does not look as
> though it would
> be too hard to do. Thoughts?
>
> Steve
> #90360
> UK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DLOMHEIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle and Plenum |
In a message dated 10/25/03 1:58:03 AM Central Daylight Time,
rv9-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> Has anyone built an aluminium plenum rather than use the rubbers to
> interface the baffles to the upper cowl? It does not look as though it would
> be too hard to do. Thoughts?
>
> Steve
> #90360
> UK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
August 10, 2003 - October 26, 2003
RV9-Archive.digest.vol-al