RV9-Archive.digest.vol-at

May 23, 2006 - November 20, 2006



      and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyo 
> ne
> > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> > Bill C.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Bill Repucci" <BR>> > To:
& gt; > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
>
> > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
> > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythin
> g
> > > is good.
> > >
> > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is long
> er
> > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> > >
> > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A
> > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only
> > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem t
> o
> > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
>
> > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG
> =2E
> > >
> > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for
> the
> > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for
> > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitti
> ng
> > > on my shelf.
> > >
> > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9
>
> > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman
> > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry abou
> t
> > &g t; the CG as it isn't a problem. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play aroun <BR>> d <BR>> > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only <BR>> > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Hope that helps. <BR>> > > Bill R. <BR>> > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html <BR>> > > <BR>> > > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR>> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. <BR>> Ice <BR>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM <BR>> > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com <BR>> > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Bill, <BR>> > > < BR>> ; > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
> > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan
> on
> > >
> > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> > >
> > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
>
> > > front
> > > floor heavily.
> > >
> > > Mike Ice
> > > Anchorage, Alaska
> > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
From: "Chenoweth" <BR>> > > To: <BR>> > > Sent: Saturday, May
20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> ; RV9- List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> > > >
> > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
>
> > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonde
> r
> > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that
> > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonde
> r
> > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behin
> d
> > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
>
> > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. B
> ill
> > > > Albion, Maine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
You won't know until you know......

>
 

>
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind
> the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively
> it
> suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e
> lt
> and power supply.

>
 

>
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and coul
> d
> not get close to the edge of the envelope.

>
 

>
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.

>
 

>
John Kerr

>
n927BJ, 56 hours

>
 

>
-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <BR>> Chenoweth" &lt;chenoweth(at)gwi.net>

> --> RV9-List
> message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
>
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked
> at
> Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to n
> ot
> worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal
> propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one

> >
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like E
> LT.
>
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant ab
> out
> not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I
> conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ah ead >
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, abse
> nt
> anyone
> commenting to
> the c
> ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci" <BILL@REPUCCI <BR>> COM>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2
> 006
> 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" > COM>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check w
> ith
> Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> >
> > >Fr
> om
> what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
>
> >
> issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
&
> gt;
> > moving the CG fo r and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythi
> ng
>
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is beca
> use
> of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more
> of
> it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's the
> re
> is less wei
> ght af
> t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear an
> d
> steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it i
> s
> WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as
> it
> is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts)
> and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> &
> gt;
>
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine
> mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I h ave an d the cowling a
> re
> sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the
> Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
>
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engin
> e
> in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some email
> s
> with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he
> simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem
> =2E
>
> >
&g
> t; >
> ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around
>
> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the l
> ist
> only
> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes ou
> t.
>
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Bill R.
&g
> t;
> & gt; ww w.repucci.com/bill/baf.html <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Origi <BR>> nal <BR>> Message----- <BR>> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR><BR>> > <BR>> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T <BR>> =2E <BR>> Ice <BR>> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM <BR>> > To: <BR>> rv9-list(at)matronics.com <BR>> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG <BR>&g <BR>> t; <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Mich <BR>> ael <BR>> T. Ice" <AURBO(at)AK.NET><BR>> > <BR>> > Bill, <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger <BR>> tailwheel <BR>> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a <BR>> wooden prop I do pl <BR>> an on <BR>> <BR>> > <BR>> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs <BR>> farther forward. <BR>> > <BR>> > It would be interest ing to s
> ee
> what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to
> your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > fr
> ont
>
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
>
> ;
> > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for
> the
> first time <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: <BR>>
> Chenoweth"
> > To: > COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> >
> Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > >
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> ;
> > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a
> completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid
> section cons tructi on part of one and
> wonder
>
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop a
> nd
> worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. Tha
> t
> is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply
> placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (wh
> ich
> is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any
> comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
&g
> t;
> > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> >
> & gt; From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Aft CG
Date: May 23, 2006
John, That's comforting but I think I've been persuaded to do the door in the floor thing. I'm really wary of aft CG's since I've been living with one for 220 hours with my Kitfox. It's a IV-1200 with the Grove spring gear. As for landings I wouldn't mind if the tailwheel 9 is a bit easier. In the Kitfox I've found that, for me at least, reasonable landings are fairly easy to come by and good ones are not. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: <kerrjohna(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > You won't know until you know...... > > My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the elt and power supply. > > I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope. > > The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. > > John Kerr > n927BJ, 56 hours > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > > > > > Bill, > > Great info and thank you very much. > > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a > > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one > > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT. > > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not > > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead > > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyone > > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > > Bill C. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Repucci" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everything > > > is good. > > > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer > > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to > > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG. > > > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the > > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for > > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting > > > on my shelf. > > > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about > > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > > > Hope that helps. > > > Bill R. > > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice > > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan on > > > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > > front > > > floor heavily. > > > > > > Mike Ice > > > Anchorage, Alaska > > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chenoweth" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonder > > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind > > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill > > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
You won't know until you know......
>
 
>
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the elt and power supply.
>
 
>
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope.
>
 
>
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.
>
 
>
John Kerr
>
n927BJ, 56 hours
>
 
>
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net>

> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT.
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyone
> commenting to > the c > ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> > <BR>> > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
> > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
> > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everything
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's there is less wei > ght af > t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> >
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem.
> >
&g > t; > > ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around
> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only
> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Bill R.
> > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do pl > an on >
> >
> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> >
> > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > front
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
> > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chenoweth"
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and > wonder >
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
> > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
& > gt; &g > Thank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Aft CG
Date: May 23, 2006
Bill, That's very persuasive so I guess I'll head in that direction. I had a look at your pictures - nice job. A few questions: Was there any particular reason you hinged the doors? Did you feel it necessary to consider the G loads the ELT would suffer in a crash and beef up its mounting accordingly? It doesn't look like the Ameri-King ELT? Is it 406 MHz Artex? If not, did you make any provision for switching when the time comes? Could you describe the way the sides of each bay are done - material and attachment? And again, thanks for the help. Bill C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:37 PM Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > Bill, > > As for the placement of items behind the 706 bulkhead, I would still be > careful. I put both the strobe power supply and ELT under the baggage > compartment floor using access doors. This will allow me to rivet the > floor in place. > > I suspect the reason Van's wants both the baggage floor and seat pans > riveted in place is to make them act like a box structure as there is a > lot of loads going through those items. However, there are a good > number of planes flying with them screwed in place. > > My -9 will have them riveted in place for two reasons. 1st, I'm lazy > and that is a lot of plate nuts. 2nd, I'm trying to make my -9 as light > as possible and those plate nuts and screws add a good bit of weight. > > The reason for putting the ELT and transponder under the floor is also > twofold. 1st, it gets more weight out of the tail so I can avoid any > potential CG problems. (Even though I doubt I will have any.) 2nd, an > airplane with all the weight in the center handles better. > > Here is a picture of where I put my ELT: > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/elt%20with%20door.jpg > > And here is the location of my strobe power supply: > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/strobe%20power%20pack.jpg > > Good luck, > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:21 PM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > Bill, > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft > use a metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a > wooden one and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate > things like ELT. strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty > adamant about not making the baggage area floor removable, though. I > conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent > anyone commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. Bill C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everything > > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is > > longer and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to > > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG. > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for > > the -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) > > for the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have > > sitting on my shelf. > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about > > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. > > Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan > > on > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > front floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to > > > wonder if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than > > > > behind bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put > > > them). Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully > > > received. Bill Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com>
Subject: Aft CG
Date: May 23, 2006
Bill, Regarding the G loads, I did not give it any consideration. The ACK ELT (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ack_tech.php) that I am using is bolted to the baggage compartment rib, not the bottom skin. The idea was to keep it from vibrating on the bottom skin. I don't know if this will work or not, time will tell. My tech advisor did want me to move it to on top of the baggage compartment floor so it is accessible in the case of an accident. I have elected to leave it under the floor but will use thumb screws so I can access it in the event of an accident. >From what I've been reading, most of the accidents that trigger the ELT are such that the passengers don't survive so I'm not really too worried about it's placement. One thing nice about having it under the floor, if I do get into an accident, it will most likely not become a projectile. A side note to this, after placing it there and running the phone line and antenna wire through the other floor ribs it was pointed out to me that certified aircraft try not to run these wires through ribs because in the event of an accident the rib can cut the wires. Just another thing to consider when you select your placement. I'm not sure if the phone wire that goes to the control switch is that critical but I suspect it could be cut in such a way so as to deactivate the ELT, again, I'm not really sure about this. If I had to do this over again, I doubt I would include the hinges, just use the screws to hold the tops in place. I had extra hinge laying around and used it, which is just like me to make it more difficult to build. As I said above, the ELT tray is bolted to the side of the floor rib with 8-32 plate nuts. The lids were made from an extra tank skin I had laying around (don't ask). The strobe light power supply was similar in construction, only I bolted it to the lid itself. Again, in an effort to keep from mounting anything directly to an outside skin. Someone once told me not to mount anything to an outside skin because the flexing of the skins could cause stress cracks. This may be an old wives tail, I don't really know. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG Bill, That's very persuasive so I guess I'll head in that direction. I had a look at your pictures - nice job. A few questions: Was there any particular reason you hinged the doors? Did you feel it necessary to consider the G loads the ELT would suffer in a crash and beef up its mounting accordingly? It doesn't look like the Ameri-King ELT? Is it 406 MHz Artex? If not, did you make any provision for switching when the time comes? Could you describe the way the sides of each bay are done - material and attachment? And again, thanks for the help. Bill C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:37 PM Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > Bill, > > As for the placement of items behind the 706 bulkhead, I would still > be careful. I put both the strobe power supply and ELT under the > baggage compartment floor using access doors. This will allow me to > rivet the floor in place. > > I suspect the reason Van's wants both the baggage floor and seat pans > riveted in place is to make them act like a box structure as there is > a lot of loads going through those items. However, there are a good > number of planes flying with them screwed in place. > > My -9 will have them riveted in place for two reasons. 1st, I'm lazy > and that is a lot of plate nuts. 2nd, I'm trying to make my -9 as > light as possible and those plate nuts and screws add a good bit of > weight. > > The reason for putting the ELT and transponder under the floor is also > twofold. 1st, it gets more weight out of the tail so I can avoid any > potential CG problems. (Even though I doubt I will have any.) 2nd, an > airplane with all the weight in the center handles better. > > Here is a picture of where I put my ELT: > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/elt%20with%20door.jpg > > And here is the location of my strobe power supply: > http://www.repucci.com/bill/images/strobe%20power%20pack.jpg > > Good luck, > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:21 PM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > Bill, > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft > use a metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a > wooden one and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate > things like ELT. strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was > pretty adamant about not making the baggage area floor removable, > though. I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if > I go ahead and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, > absent anyone commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > Bill C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft > > >CG > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found > > everything > > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is > > longer and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we > > only have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't > > seem to > > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear > > legs > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG. > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for > > the -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized > > (extended) for the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden > > prop I have sitting on my shelf. > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my > > -9 (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a > > gentleman out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to > > worry about > > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play > > around > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, > > only -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. > > Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do > > plan on > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall > > and front floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. > > > I'm > > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and > > > wonder > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to > > > wonder if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other > > > than > > > > behind bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I > > > put them). Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully > > > received. Bill Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2006
From: Larry Rush <k9hxt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/22/06
When Van put the battery on the firewall it added extra margin w/regards weight aft of CG. I have built a RV-6A, RV-8, & RV-7A and all have the ELT in the tail below the horizontal stab., and the strobe power supply just aft of the rear baggage area bulkhead. The CG's on all turned out as Van predicted. The six has a O-360 180.hp and metal prop, the eight has a IO-360 w/CS prop, and the seven has a IO-360 w/CS prop. The eight and seven even have the Alt hold auto pilot servo in the area behind aft bag BH too. I put the ELT in the tail because that is the portion of the plane most likely to survive in a incident etc. Note that 100# of baggage is A-LOT! Pick your largest suitcase and fill it to max then weigh it.....you'll be surprised. You can not get that size s/c in the bag area anyway. A couple carry/on sizes is about it. Good luck.....& build on! Larry, RV-6A N939LT @2R2 (IN) "LIMA TANGO NINER SENDS" ----- Original Message ---- From: RV9-List Digest Server <rv9-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:57:39 AM Subject: RV9-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/22/06 * ================================================ Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Today's complete RV9-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-05-22.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-05-22.txt ============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/22/06: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:42 AM - Re: Aft CG (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) 2. 12:18 PM - Matronics BBS Forums (Matt Dralle) 3. 02:10 PM - Re: Aft CG (John Disher) 4. 03:08 PM - Re: Aft CG (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG You won't know until you know...... My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the elt and power supply. I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope. The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. John Kerr n927BJ, 56 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > > Bill, > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT. > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyone > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > Bill C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everything > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG. > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting > > on my shelf. > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan on > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > front > > floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chenoweth" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonder > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
You won't know until you know......
 
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the elt and power supply.
 
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope.
 
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.
 
John Kerr
n927BJ, 56 hours
 

> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT.
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyone
> commenting to the c ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci" <BILL(at)REPUCCI.COM><BR>> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. <BR>> > <BR>> > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
> > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
> > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everything
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's there is less wei ght af t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> >
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem.
> >
&g t; > ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around <BR>> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only <BR>> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. <BR>> > <BR>> > Hope that helps. <BR>> > Bill R. <BR>> > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR>> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice <BR>> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM <BR>> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com <BR>> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <AURBO(at)AK.NET><BR>> > <BR>> > Bill, <BR>> > <BR>> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel <BR>> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do pl an on
> >
> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> >
> > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > front
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
> > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Chenoweth" <CHENOWETH(at)GWI.NET><BR>> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
> > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
& gt; &g Thank ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV9-List: Matronics BBS Forums Hello Listers, I just wanted to send out a reminder to all of the Listers regarding the new-ish BBS (Bulletin Board System) Forums that are available at Matronics for the Email Lists. The BBS Forums give you Web-based access into the same email content that is generated by the Email Lists. When an email message is posted to any of the email lists, a copy of the message is also copied to the respective List forum section on in the BBS Forums. By the same token, when a message is posted within the BBS Forum interface context, it will also be posted to the respective email list. Basically, the BBS Forums give you yet another method of accessing the Matronics Email List content. Some people prefer email, some prefer web forums; now you can have it either way or both with the Matronics Lists! You'll have to register for a login/password on the BBS Forum to _post_ from the BBS, but you can view message content without registering for an account. To Register for an account, look for the link at the top of the main BBS Forum page entitled "Register". Click on it and follow the instructions. Site Administrator approval will be required (to keep spammers out), but I will try to get these approved in less than 24 hours. If you haven't yet taken a look at the Matronics Email List content over on the BBS Forum, surf on over and take a peek. Its pretty cool. The URL is: http://forums.matronics.com I want to stress that the BBS Forums are simply an adjunct to the existing Matronics Email Lists; another way of viewing and interacting with the Matronics List content. If you like Email, great. If you like Web Forums, great. If you like both, great. Its up to you how you view and create your content. You will also find a URL link at the bottom of this email called Matronics List Features Navigator. You can click on this link at any time to find URL links to all of the other great features available on the Matronics site like the Archive Search Engine, List Browse, List Download, FAQs, Wiki, and lots more. There is a specific Navigator for each Email List and the link for this specific List is shown below. Thanks for all the great list participation and support; it is greatly appreciated! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ From: "John Disher" <jdisher(at)intergate.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG Now you've dampened my enthusiasm. After 1200 hours in a V-tail Bonanza, I built a Kitfox IV Speedster about 10 years ago. Sweetest flying plane in the world, at least until I tried to put it on the ground on an asphalt runwa y. I'm sure a lot of it was me, but I found it to be the squirrelliest thing in the world with variable winds on the ground. Only plane I ever ground-loo ped and now here I am about 95% finished with a 9A. Tell me your Kitfox comparison was for a 9. -------Original Message------- From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG You won't know until you know...... My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e lt and power supply. I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope. The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. John Kerr n927BJ, 56 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > > Bill, > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft u se a > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahe ad > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyo ne > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > Bill C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythin g > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is long er > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem t o > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG =2E > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitti ng > > on my shelf. > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry abou t > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play aroun d > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan on > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > front > > floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chenoweth" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonde r > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonde r > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behin d > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. B ill > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
You won't know until you know......
 
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e lt and power supply.
 
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and coul d not get close to the edge of the envelope.
 
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.
 
John Kerr
n927BJ, 56 hours
 

> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to n ot worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like E LT.
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant ab out not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, abse nt anyone
> commenting to the c ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci" <BILL@REPUCCI COM>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2 006 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check w ith Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> >
> > >Fr om what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
> > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
& gt; > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythi ng
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is beca use of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's the re is less wei ght af t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear an d steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it i s WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> & gt;
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling a re sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engin e in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some email s with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem =2E
> >
&g t; > ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around
> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the l ist only
> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes ou t.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Bill R.
&g t; > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> >
> > -----Origi nal Message----- <BR>> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T =2E Ice
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
&g t; >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Mich ael T. Ice"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do pl an on
> >
> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> >
> > It would be interesting to s ee what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > fr ont
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
> ; > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chenoweth"
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> ; > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop a nd worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. Tha t is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (wh ich is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
&g t; > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> &g t; >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g t; >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g t; >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
& gt; &g Thank ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG My frame of reference is that in 700 hours and 2000+ landings on asphalt and high altitude mountain strips I have yet to experience any difficulty landing the Kitfox. The rest of my education is still to come. I found the 9 easier to land than the RV7 that I was in for transition training. I typically cross the fence at 60-65 mph IAS compared to 85 mph IAS in the RV7. Don't be disheartened. The Gear on the RV9 is much more reliable than the bungy gear of the 'Fox. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Disher" <jdisher(at)intergate.com> > > Now you've dampened my enthusiasm. After 1200 hours in a V-tail Bonanza, > I > built a Kitfox IV Speedster about 10 years ago. Sweetest flying plane in > the > world, at least until I tried to put it on the ground on an asphalt runwa > y. > I'm sure a lot of it was me, but I found it to be the squirrelliest thing > in > the world with variable winds on the ground. Only plane I ever ground-loo > ped > and now here I am about 95% finished with a 9A. Tell me your Kitfox > comparison was for a 9. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net > Date: 05/22/06 10:58:17 > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > You won't know until you know...... > > My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the > baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it > suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e > lt > and power supply. > > I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not > get close to the edge of the envelope. > > The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. > > John Kerr > n927BJ, 56 hours > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Chenoweth" > > > > > Bill, > > Great info and thank you very much. > > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft u > se > a > > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden > one > > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like > ELT > > > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not > > > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahe > ad > > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyo > ne > > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > > Bill C. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Repucci" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythin > g > > > is good. > > > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is long > er > > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem t > o > > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG > =2E > > > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for > the > > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for > > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitti > ng > > > on my shelf. > > > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry abou > t > > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play aroun > d > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > > > Hope that helps. > > > Bill R. > > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. > Ice > > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan > on > > > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > > > front > > > floor heavily. > > > > > > Mike Ice > > > Anchorage, Alaska > > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chenoweth" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonde > r > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonde > r > > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behin > d > > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. B > ill > > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't know until you know...... > > My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind > the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively > it > suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e > lt > and power supply. > > I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and coul > d > not get close to the edge of the envelope. > > The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. > > John Kerr > n927BJ, 56 hours > > -------------- Original message -------------- From: > Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > --> RV9-List > message posted by: "Chenoweth" > > Bill, > > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked > at > Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to n > ot > worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a > metal > propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one > > > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like E > LT. > > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant ab > out > not > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > I > conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead > > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, abse > nt > anyone > commenting to > the c > ontrary, I think that's what I'll do. > Bill C. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" > COM> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2 > 006 > 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check w > ith > Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >Fr > om > what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while & > gt; > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythi > ng > > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is beca > use > of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer > > and thus more > of > it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's the > re > is less wei > ght af > t of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear an > d > steps aft of the CG where we only > > have the TW, granted it i > s > WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to > > be an issue as > it > is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > mounts) > and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG. > & > gt; > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine > mount for the > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling a > re > sized (extended) for > > the O-235. This will help out with the > Catto wooden prop I have sitting > > on my shelf. > > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engin > e > in my -9 > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some email > s > with a gentleman > > out West who has the same set up and he > simply said not to worry about > > the CG as it isn't a problem > =2E > > > &g > t; > > ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the l > ist > only > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes ou > t. > > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. &g > t; > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Origi > nal > Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T > =2E > Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: > rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG &g > t; > > > > > ael > T. Ice" > > > > Bill, > > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger > tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a > wooden prop I do pl > an on > > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs > farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to s > ee > what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to > your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > fr > ont > > > floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > ; > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for > the > first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > Chenoweth" > > To: > COM> > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > ; > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a > completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > in the tail cone and mid > section construction part of one and > wonder > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop a > nd > worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. Tha > t > is leading me to wonder > > > if ELT and strobe power supply > placement should be other than behind > > > bulkhead 706 (wh > ich > is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > Any > comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill &g > t; > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > &g > t; > > > > > > > > > > > > &g > t; > > > > > > > > > > > > &g > t; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > gt; &g > Thank > > > > > > ========================= > ========== > ========================= > ========== > ========================= > ========== > ========================= > ========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
My frame of reference is that in 700 hours and 2000+ landings on asphalt and high altitude mountain strips I have yet to experience any difficulty landing the Kitfox.  The rest of my education is still to come.
 
I found the 9 easier to land than the RV7 that I was in for transition training.  I typically cross the fence at 60-65 mph IAS compared to 85 mph IAS in the RV7.
 
Don't be disheartened.  The Gear on the RV9 is much more reliable than the bungy gear of the 'Fox.
 
John Kerr
 

> --> RV9-List message posted by: "John Disher"
>
> Now you've dampened my enthusiasm. After 1200 hours in a V-tail Bonanza,
> I
> built a Kitfox IV Speedster about 10 years ago. Sweetest flying plane in
> the
> world, at least until I tried to put it on the ground on an asphalt runwa
> y.
> I'm sure a lot of it was me, but I found it to be the squirrelliest thing
> in
> the world with variable winds on the ground. Only plane I ever ground-loo
> ped
> and now here I am about 95% finished with a 9A. Tell me your Kitfox
> comparison was for a 9.
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
> Date: 05/22/06 10:5 8:17 < BR>> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
>
> You won't know until you know......
>
> My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the
> baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it
> suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e
> lt
> and power supply.
>
> I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not
> get close to the edge of the envelope.
>
> The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.
>
> John Kerr
> n927BJ, 56 hours
>
> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> From: "Chenoweth"
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> >
> > Bill,
> ; > Great info and thank you very much.
> > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft u
> se
> a
> > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden
> one
> > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like
> ELT
>
> > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not
>
> > making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahe
> ad
> > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyo
> ne
> > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> > Bill C.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Bill Repucci" <BR>> > To:
& gt; > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
>
> > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
> > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythin
> g
> > > is good.
> > >
> > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is long
> er
> > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> > >
> > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A
> > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only
> > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem t
> o
> > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
>
> > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG
> =2E
> > >
> > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for
> the
> > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for
> > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitti
> ng
> > > on my shelf.
> > >
> > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9
>
> > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman
> > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry abou
> t
> > &g t; the CG as it isn't a problem. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play aroun <BR>> d <BR>> > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only <BR>> > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Hope that helps. <BR>> > > Bill R. <BR>> > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html <BR>> > > <BR>> > > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR>> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. <BR>> Ice <BR>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM <BR>> > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com <BR>> > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Bill, <BR>> > > < BR>> ; > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
> > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan
> on
> > >
> > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> > >
> > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
>
> > > front
> > > floor heavily.
> > >
> > > Mike Ice
> > > Anchorage, Alaska
> > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chenoweth" <BR>> > > To: <BR>> > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> ; RV9- List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> > > >
> > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
>
> > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonde
> r
> > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that
> > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonde
> r
> > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behin
> d
> > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
>
> > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. B
> ill
> > > > Albion, Maine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
You won't know until you know......

>
 

>
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind
> the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively
> it
> suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e
> lt
> and power supply.

>
 

>
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and coul
> d
> not get close to the edge of the envelope.

>
 

>
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.

>
 

>
John Kerr

>
n927BJ, 56 hours

>
 

>
-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <BR>> Chenoweth" &lt;chenoweth(at)gwi.net>

> --> RV9-List
> message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
>
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked
> at
> Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to n
> ot
> worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal
> propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one

> >
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like E
> LT.
>
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant ab
> out
> not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I
> conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ah ead >
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, abse
> nt
> anyone
> commenting to
> the c
> ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci" <BILL@REPUCCI <BR>> COM>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2
> 006
> 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" > COM>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check w
> ith
> Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> >
> > >Fr
> om
> what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
>
> >
> issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
&
> gt;
> > moving the CG fo r and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythi
> ng
>
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is beca
> use
> of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more
> of
> it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's the
> re
> is less wei
> ght af
> t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear an
> d
> steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it i
> s
> WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as
> it
> is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts)
> and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> &
> gt;
>
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine
> mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I h ave an d the cowling a
> re
> sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the
> Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
>
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engin
> e
> in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some email
> s
> with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he
> simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem
> =2E
>
> >
&g
> t; >
> ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around
>
> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the l
> ist
> only
> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes ou
> t.
>
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Bill R.
&g
> t;
> & gt; ww w.repucci.com/bill/baf.html <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Origi <BR>> nal <BR>> Message----- <BR>> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR><BR>> > <BR>> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T <BR>> =2E <BR>> Ice <BR>> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM <BR>> > To: <BR>> rv9-list(at)matronics.com <BR>> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG <BR>&g <BR>> t; <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Mich <BR>> ael <BR>> T. Ice" <AURBO(at)AK.NET><BR>> > <BR>> > Bill, <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger <BR>> tailwheel <BR>> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a <BR>> wooden prop I do pl <BR>> an on <BR>> <BR>> > <BR>> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs <BR>> farther forward. <BR>> > <BR>> > It would be interest ing to s
> ee
> what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to
> your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > fr
> ont
>
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
>
> ;
> > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for
> the
> first time <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: <BR>>
> Chenoweth"
> > To: > COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> >
> Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > >
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> ;
> > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a
> completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid
> section cons tructi on part of one and
> wonder
>
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop a
> nd
> worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. Tha
> t
> is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply
> placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (wh
> ich
> is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any
> comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
&g
> t;
> > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> >
> & gt; From: "Mike Hoover" <mikehoover(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/22/06
Date: May 23, 2006
Hey Larry, Do you have any pictures you can share with your ELT mount in the tail of your 7? And antenna placement? I have the AK-450 ELT to go in my 9A with slider, and am still mulling over its placement. Thanks! Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rush Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:17 AM Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/22/06 When Van put the battery on the firewall it added extra margin w/regards weight aft of CG. I have built a RV-6A, RV-8, & RV-7A and all have the ELT in the tail below the horizontal stab., and the strobe power supply just aft of the rear baggage area bulkhead. The CG's on all turned out as Van predicted. The six has a O-360 180.hp and metal prop, the eight has a IO-360 w/CS prop, and the seven has a IO-360 w/CS prop. The eight and seven even have the Alt hold auto pilot servo in the area behind aft bag BH too. I put the ELT in the tail because that is the portion of the plane most likely to survive in a incident etc. Note that 100# of baggage is A-LOT! Pick your largest suitcase and fill it to max then weigh it.....you'll be surprised. You can not get that size s/c in the bag area anyway. A couple carry/on sizes is about it. Good luck.....& build on! Larry, RV-6A N939LT @2R2 (IN) "LIMA TANGO NINER SENDS" ----- Original Message ---- From: RV9-List Digest Server <rv9-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:57:39 AM Subject: RV9-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/22/06 * =============================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== Today's complete RV9-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-05-22.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-05-22.txt ============================================= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ============================================= ---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/22/06: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:42 AM - Re: Aft CG (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) 2. 12:18 PM - Matronics BBS Forums (Matt Dralle) 3. 02:10 PM - Re: Aft CG (John Disher) 4. 03:08 PM - Re: Aft CG (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG You won't know until you know...... My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the elt and power supply. I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope. The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. John Kerr n927BJ, 56 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > > Bill, > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT. > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyone > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > Bill C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everything > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG. > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting > > on my shelf. > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan on > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > front > > floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chenoweth" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonder > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
You won't know until you know......
 
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the elt and power supply.
 
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope.
 
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.
 
John Kerr
n927BJ, 56 hours
 

> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT.
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyone
> commenting to the c ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci"
>
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. <BR>> > <BR>> > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
> > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
> > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everything
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's there is less wei ght af t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> >
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem.
> >
&g t; > ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around
> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only
> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Bill R.
> > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do pl an on
> >
> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> >
> > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > front
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
> > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Chenoweth"
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
> > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
& gt; &g Thank ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV9-List: Matronics BBS Forums Hello Listers, I just wanted to send out a reminder to all of the Listers regarding the new-ish BBS (Bulletin Board System) Forums that are available at Matronics for the Email Lists. The BBS Forums give you Web-based access into the same email content that is generated by the Email Lists. When an email message is posted to any of the email lists, a copy of the message is also copied to the respective List forum section on in the BBS Forums. By the same token, when a message is posted within the BBS Forum interface context, it will also be posted to the respective email list. Basically, the BBS Forums give you yet another method of accessing the Matronics Email List content. Some people prefer email, some prefer web forums; now you can have it either way or both with the Matronics Lists! You'll have to register for a login/password on the BBS Forum to _post_ from the BBS, but you can view message content without registering for an account. To Register for an account, look for the link at the top of the main BBS Forum page entitled "Register". Click on it and follow the instructions. Site Administrator approval will be required (to keep spammers out), but I will try to get these approved in less than 24 hours. If you haven't yet taken a look at the Matronics Email List content over on the BBS Forum, surf on over and take a peek. Its pretty cool. The URL is: http://forums.matronics.com I want to stress that the BBS Forums are simply an adjunct to the existing Matronics Email Lists; another way of viewing and interacting with the Matronics List content. If you like Email, great. If you like Web Forums, great. If you like both, great. Its up to you how you view and create your content. You will also find a URL link at the bottom of this email called Matronics List Features Navigator. You can click on this link at any time to find URL links to all of the other great features available on the Matronics site like the Archive Search Engine, List Browse, List Download, FAQs, Wiki, and lots more. There is a specific Navigator for each Email List and the link for this specific List is shown below. Thanks for all the great list participation and support; it is greatly appreciated! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ From: "John Disher" <jdisher(at)intergate.com> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG Now you've dampened my enthusiasm. After 1200 hours in a V-tail Bonanza, I built a Kitfox IV Speedster about 10 years ago. Sweetest flying plane in the world, at least until I tried to put it on the ground on an asphalt runwa y. I'm sure a lot of it was me, but I found it to be the squirrelliest thing in the world with variable winds on the ground. Only plane I ever ground-loo ped and now here I am about 95% finished with a 9A. Tell me your Kitfox comparison was for a 9. -------Original Message------- From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG You won't know until you know...... My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e lt and power supply. I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not get close to the edge of the envelope. The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. John Kerr n927BJ, 56 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > > Bill, > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft u se a > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like ELT > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahe ad > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyo ne > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > Bill C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythin g > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is long er > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem t o > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG =2E > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitti ng > > on my shelf. > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry abou t > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play aroun d > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan on > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > front > > floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chenoweth" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonde r > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonde r > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behin d > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. B ill > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
You won't know until you know......
 
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e lt and power supply.
 
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and coul d not get close to the edge of the envelope.
 
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.
 
John Kerr
n927BJ, 56 hours
 

> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to n ot worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like E LT.
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant ab out not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, abse nt anyone
> commenting to the c ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci" <BILL@REPUCCI COM>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2 006 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check w ith Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> >
> > >Fr om what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
> > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
& gt; > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythi ng
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is beca use of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's the re is less wei ght af t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear an d steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it i s WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> & gt;
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling a re sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engin e in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some email s with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem =2E
> >
&g t; > ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around
> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the l ist only
> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes ou t.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Bill R.
&g t; > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> >
> > -----Origi nal Message----- <BR>> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T =2E Ice
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
&g t; >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Mich ael T. Ice"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do pl an on
> >
> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> >
> > It would be interesting to s ee what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > fr ont
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
> ; > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chenoweth"
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> ; > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonder
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop a nd worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. Tha t is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (wh ich is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
&g t; > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> &g t; >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g t; >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g t; >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
& gt; &g Thank ===================== ====== ===================== ====== ===================== ====== ===================== ====== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG My frame of reference is that in 700 hours and 2000+ landings on asphalt and high altitude mountain strips I have yet to experience any difficulty landing the Kitfox. The rest of my education is still to come. I found the 9 easier to land than the RV7 that I was in for transition training. I typically cross the fence at 60-65 mph IAS compared to 85 mph IAS in the RV7. Don't be disheartened. The Gear on the RV9 is much more reliable than the bungy gear of the 'Fox. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Disher" <jdisher(at)intergate.com> > > Now you've dampened my enthusiasm. After 1200 hours in a V-tail Bonanza, > I > built a Kitfox IV Speedster about 10 years ago. Sweetest flying plane in > the > world, at least until I tried to put it on the ground on an asphalt runwa > y. > I'm sure a lot of it was me, but I found it to be the squirrelliest thing > in > the world with variable winds on the ground. Only plane I ever ground-loo > ped > and now here I am about 95% finished with a 9A. Tell me your Kitfox > comparison was for a 9. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net > Date: 05/22/06 10:58:17 > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > You won't know until you know...... > > My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the > baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it > suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e > lt > and power supply. > > I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not > get close to the edge of the envelope. > > The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. > > John Kerr > n927BJ, 56 hours > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Chenoweth" > > > > > Bill, > > Great info and thank you very much. > > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft u > se > a > > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden > one > > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like > ELT > > > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not > > > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahe > ad > > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyo > ne > > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do. > > Bill C. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Repucci" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM > > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while > > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythin > g > > > is good. > > > > > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is long > er > > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG. > > > > > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A > > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only > > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem t > o > > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG > =2E > > > > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for > the > > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for > > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitti > ng > > > on my shelf. > > > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9 > > > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman > > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry abou > t > > > the CG as it isn't a problem. > > > > > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play aroun > d > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only > > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out. > > > > > > Hope that helps. > > > Bill R. > > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. > Ice > > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel > > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan > on > > > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward. > > > > > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done? > > > > > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > > > front > > > floor heavily. > > > > > > Mike Ice > > > Anchorage, Alaska > > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chenoweth" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonde > r > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that > > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonde > r > > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behin > d > > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. B > ill > > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't know until you know...... > > My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind > the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively > it > suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e > lt > and power supply. > > I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and coul > d > not get close to the edge of the envelope. > > The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox. > > John Kerr > n927BJ, 56 hours > > -------------- Original message -------------- From: > Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> > --> RV9-List > message posted by: "Chenoweth" > > Bill, > > Great info and thank you very much. > The fellow I asked > at > Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His > response was to n > ot > worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a > metal > propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one > > > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like E > LT. > > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant ab > out > not > making the baggage area floor removable, though. > I > conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahead > > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, abse > nt > anyone > commenting to > the c > ontrary, I think that's what I'll do. > Bill C. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Repucci" > COM> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2 > 006 > 3:09 PM > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Check w > ith > Van's to verify what I'm about to say. > > > > >Fr > om > what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG > > > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while & > gt; > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythi > ng > > > is good. > > > > I suspect this is beca > use > of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer > > and thus more > of > it is forward of the CG. > > > > Also, on TW RV's the > re > is less wei > ght af > t of the CG than on the A > > models. A's have the main gear an > d > steps aft of the CG where we only > > have the TW, granted it i > s > WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to > > be an issue as > it > is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs > > mounts) > and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG. > & > gt; > > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine > mount for the > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling a > re > sized (extended) for > > the O-235. This will help out with the > Catto wooden prop I have sitting > > on my shelf. > > > > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engin > e > in my -9 > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some email > s > with a gentleman > > out West who has the same set up and he > simply said not to worry about > > the CG as it isn't a problem > =2E > > > &g > t; > > ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around > > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the l > ist > only > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes ou > t. > > > > > Hope that helps. > > Bill R. &g > t; > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html > > > > -----Origi > nal > Message----- > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T > =2E > Ice > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM > > To: > rv9-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG &g > t; > > > > > ael > T. Ice" > > > > Bill, > > > > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger > tailwheel > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a > wooden prop I do pl > an on > > > > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs > farther forward. > > > > It would be interesting to s > ee > what others think or have done? > > > > An answer to > your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and > > fr > ont > > > floor heavily. > > > > Mike Ice > > ; > > Anchorage, Alaska > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for > the > first time > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > Chenoweth" > > To: > COM> > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM > > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG > > > > > > > > > ; > > > > > > This is a question for any of you with a > completed tailwheel 9. I'm > > > in the tail cone and mid > section construction part of one and > wonder > > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop a > nd > worry that > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. Tha > t > is leading me to wonder > > > if ELT and strobe power supply > placement should be other than behind > > > bulkhead 706 (wh > ich > is where Van's strongly recommends I put them). > > > Any > comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill &g > t; > > > Albion, Maine > > > > > > > &g > t; > > > > > > > > > > > > &g > t; > > > > > > > > > > > > &g > t; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & > gt; &g > Thank > > > > > > ========================= > ========== > ========================= > ========== > ========================= > ========== > ========================= > ========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
My frame of reference is that in 700 hours and 2000+ landings on asphalt and high altitude mountain strips I have yet to experience any difficulty landing the Kitfox.  The rest of my education is still to come.
 
I found the 9 easier to land than the RV7 that I was in for transition training.  I typically cross the fence at 60-65 mph IAS compared to 85 mph IAS in the RV7.
 
Don't be disheartened.  The Gear on the RV9 is much more reliable than the bungy gear of the 'Fox.
 
John Kerr
 

> --> RV9-List message posted by: "John Disher"
>
> Now you've dampened my enthusiasm. After 1200 hours in a V-tail Bonanza,
> I
> built a Kitfox IV Speedster about 10 years ago. Sweetest flying plane in
> the
> world, at least until I tried to put it on the ground on an asphalt runwa
> y.
> I'm sure a lot of it was me, but I found it to be the squirrelliest thing
> in
> the world with variable winds on the ground. Only plane I ever ground-loo
> ped
> and now here I am about 95% finished with a 9A. Tell me your Kitfox
> comparison was for a 9.
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
> Date: 05/22/06 10:5 8:17 < BR>> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
> --> RV9-List message posted by: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
>
> You won't know until you know......
>
> My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind the
> baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively it
> suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e
> lt
> and power supply.
>
> I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and could not
> get close to the edge of the envelope.
>
> The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.
>
> John Kerr
> n927BJ, 56 hours
>
> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> From: "Chenoweth"
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> >
> > Bill,
> ; > Great info and thank you very much.
> > The fellow I asked at Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> > response was to not worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft u
> se
> a
> > metal propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden
> one
> > and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like
> ELT
>
> > strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant about not
>
> > making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> > I conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ahe
> ad
> > and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, absent anyo
> ne
> > commenting to the contrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> > Bill C.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Bill Repucci" <BR>> > To:
& gt; > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:09 PM
> > Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci"
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Check with Van's to verify what I'm about to say. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > >From what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
>
> > > issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
> > > moving the CG for and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythin
> g
> > > is good.
> > >
> > > I suspect this is because of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is long
> er
> > > and thus more of it is forward of the CG.
> > >
> > > Also, on TW RV's there is less weight aft of the CG than on the A
> > > models. A's have the main gear and steps aft of the CG where we only
> > > have the TW, granted it is WAY back there but it still doesn't seem t
> o
> > > be an issue as it is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
>
> > > mounts) and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG
> =2E
> > >
> > > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine mount for
> the
> > > -9's. I know the one I have and the cowling are sized (extended) for
> > > the O-235. This will help out with the Catto wooden prop I have sitti
> ng
> > > on my shelf.
> > >
> > > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engine in my -9
>
> > > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some emails with a gentleman
> > > out West who has the same set up and he simply said not to worry abou
> t
> > &g t; the CG as it isn't a problem.
> > >
> > > To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play aroun
> d
> > > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the list, only
> > > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes out.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps.
> > > Bill R.
> > > www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com <BR>> > > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T.
> Ice
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice"
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > > < BR>> ; > > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger tailwheel
> > > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a wooden prop I do plan
> on
> > >
> > > installing the elt and the strobe power packs farther forward.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see what others think or have done?
> > >
> > > An answer to your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
>
> > > front
> > > floor heavily.
> > >
> > > Mike Ice
> > > Anchorage, Alaska
> > > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for the first time
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chenoweth" <BR>> > > To: <BR>> > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> > > Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> ; RV9- List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
> > > >
> > > > This is a question for any of you with a completed tailwheel 9. I'm
>
> > > > in the tail cone and mid section construction part of one and wonde
> r
> > > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop and worry that
> > > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. That is leading me to wonde
> r
> > > > if ELT and strobe power supply placement should be other than behin
> d
> > > > bulkhead 706 (which is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
>
> > > > Any comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. B
> ill
> > > > Albion, Maine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
You won't know until you know......

>
 

>
My w/b with x320 and metal prop, and the elt and power supply behind
> the baggage bulkhead; would allow for over 100# of baggage so intuitively
> it
> suggests that a lighter prop would be accommodate that location for the e
> lt
> and power supply.

>
 

>
I went through all of the various loadings on the computer, and coul
> d
> not get close to the edge of the envelope.

>
 

>
The 9 is a fine flying machine, lands just like a kitfox.

>
 

>
John Kerr

>
n927BJ, 56 hours

>
 

>
-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <BR>> Chenoweth" &lt;chenoweth(at)gwi.net>

> --> RV9-List
> message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> Bill,
>
> Great info and thank you very much.
> The fellow I asked
> at
> Van's was singularly un-helpful with this. His
> response was to n
> ot
> worry about the CG and if it came out too far aft use a
> metal
> propeller. Sort of missed my point about wanting to use a wooden one

> >
> and provided absolutely no ideas about where/how to locate things like E
> LT.
>
> strobe power supply, etc, farther forward. Was pretty adamant ab
> out
> not
> making the baggage area floor removable, though.
> I
> conclude from what you said that I should have no problem if I go ah ead >
> and mount the ELT and all just behind the 706 bulkhead and, abse
> nt
> anyone
> commenting to
> the c
> ontrary, I think that's what I'll do.
> Bill C.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Bill Repucci" <BILL@REPUCCI
> COM>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2
> 006
> 3:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RV9-List: Aft CG
>
>
>
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Bill Repucci" > COM>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Check w
> ith
> Van's to verify what I'm about to say.
> >
> > >Fr
> om
> what I have read the RV-9 does not seem to have the same aft CG
>
> >
> issues as the -7A. I have played around with sample loadings while
&
> gt;
> > moving the CG fo r and aft as much as 2" on the -9 and found everythi
> ng
>
> > is good.
> >
> > I suspect this is beca
> use
> of the RV-9's wing. Meaning that it is longer
> > and thus more
> of
> it is forward of the CG.
> >
> > Also, on TW RV's the
> re
> is less wei
> ght af
> t of the CG than on the A
> > models. A's have the main gear an
> d
> steps aft of the CG where we only
> > have the TW, granted it i
> s
> WAY back there but it still doesn't seem to
> > be an issue as
> it
> is offset by the heaver engine mount (two gear legs
> > mounts)
> and the gear legs and wheels them self way in front of the CG.
> &
> gt;
>
> > Van's also compensates a bit with a slightly longer engine
> mount for the
> > -9's. I know the one I h ave an d the cowling a
> re
> sized (extended) for
> > the O-235. This will help out with the
> Catto wooden prop I have sitting
> > on my shelf.
> >
>
> > That is what I am hoping for as I'm putting a lighter engin
> e
> in my -9
> > (O-290-D2). As a side note, I exchanged some email
> s
> with a gentleman
> > out West who has the same set up and he
> simply said not to worry about
> > the CG as it isn't a problem
> =2E
>
> >
&g
> t; >
> ; To verify this, check Dan C's site (www.rvproject.com) and play around
>
> > with his CG calculator. Granted, there are no -9's on the l
> ist
> only
> > -9A's but you will get an idea of how the CG comes ou
> t.
>
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Bill R.
&g
> t;
> & gt; ww w.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
> >
> > -----Origi
> nal
> Message-----
> > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com

> >
> > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T
> =2E
> Ice
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 AM
> > To:
> rv9-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Aft CG
&g
> t;
> >
> >
> > --> RV9-List message posted by: "Mich
> ael
> T. Ice"
> >
> > Bill,
> >
>
> > I have the same concerns. I do plan on installing a larger
> tailwheel
> > assembly. Although I am not planning on using a
> wooden prop I do pl
> an on
>
> >
> > installing the elt and the strobe power packs
> farther forward.
> >
> > It would be interest ing to s
> ee
> what others think or have done?
> >
> > An answer to
> your concerns would be to insulate both the firewall and
> > fr
> ont
>
> > floor heavily.
> >
> > Mike Ice
>
> ;
> > Anchorage, Alaska
> > RV-9 Fuselage, installing wings for
> the
> first time
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
>
> Chenoweth"
> > To: > COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:24 PM
> >
> Subject: RV9-List: Aft CG
> >
> >
> > >
> --> RV9-List message posted by: "Chenoweth"
>
> ;
> > >
> > > This is a question for any of you with a
> completed tailwheel 9. I'm
> > > in the tail cone and mid
> section cons tructi on part of one and
> wonder
>
> > > about CG problems. I'm hoping to use a wooden prop a
> nd
> worry that
> > > I'll end up with a very aft CG if I do. Tha
> t
> is leading me to wonder
> > > if ELT and strobe power supply
> placement should be other than behind
> > > bulkhead 706 (wh
> ich
> is where Van's strongly recommends I put them).
> > > Any
> comments and suggestions on this will be gratefully received. Bill
&g
> t;
> > > Albion, Maine
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g
> t;
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> >
> & gt; From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: French RV fly-in
Date: May 27, 2006
>From: "Mickey Coggins" <mc(at)rv8.ch> >There is also a Van's Club de France >fly-in early June: http://www.vansclubdefrance.org/ I've just decided, bought an airline ticket to Bordeaux, and I will be at the Van's club de France fly-in at La Baule next June, 3 (saturday). Anybody else? Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2006
From: jc(at)INFONET.COM.BR
Subject: Re: French RV fly-in
Good ideia Carlos: But Im afraid my -9A doesnt have enough fuel to get there. After all from Aracaju- Brasil to Talence-France are 4456,45 miles, and I have no floats installed on it. Bon voyage mon ami. JC - Aracaju - Brasil PU-JCI -9A flying 125 hs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Two New Email Lists at Matronics and Wiki Reminder!
Dear Listers, I have added two new email Lists to the Matronics Line up today. These include a Continental engine List and a Lightning aircraft List: =========== continental-list(at)matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Continental-List Everything related to the Continental aircraft engine. Sky's the limit on discussions here. =========== =========== lightning-list(at)matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List This is an exciting new design from Arion Aircraft LLC in Shelbyville Tennessee. Pete Krotje has a very nice web site on the aircraft that can be found here: http://www.arionaircraft.com/ =========== Also, if you haven't checked out the new Matronics Aircraft Wiki, swing by and have a look. Remember, a Wiki is only as good as the content that the members put into it. Have a look over some of the sections, and if you've got some interesting or useful, please add it to the Wiki! Its all about YOU! :-) The URL for the Matronics Wiki is: http://wiki.matronics.com Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Enclosure Support
Dear Listers, Over the years, I have resisted the urge to enable enclosure support on the Matronics Lists for a number of reasons relating to performance, capacity, capability, and security. However, its now 2006 and most everyone using email these days is on an email client that, at some level, supports the viewing and handling of enclosures. I get a fair amount of email each month from people on the various Lists asking why their posts of this or that picture didn't go through. Back quite a while ago by popular request, I enabled enclosure support for a few Lists such as the RV10-List, Kolb-List, and the Tailwind-List. Contrary to my fears, there really hasn't been any significant issues on these Lists relating to the advent of enclosure support and for the most part, members have policed themselves well with respect to the size of things they have posted. Having enclosures enabled on some Lists and not others has given me a fair amount of headaches with respect to filtering messages and content since the formats are often quite different between a typical MIME encoded message and a generic plain-text message. The spammers are getting more cleaver all the time and are constantly trying to thwart my best efforts at keeping them from posting to the Lists. So, for these reasons, I've have decided to go ahead and enable limited enclosure posting on all of the email Lists at Matronics. This will not only increase the utility of the Lists, but will afford me a better opportunity to filter out the chaff. Here are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: jpg, bmp, gif, txt, xls, pdf, and doc All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! I hope everyone will enjoy the added functionality of enclosures. Please police yourself and use good judgement when posting messages with enclosures using the guidelines I've outlined above. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: DOUBLE FLARING
Date: Jun 10, 2006
Greetings Listers, I have been told that the safest way to treat flares brake and fuel fittings is with a double flaring tool. I can get my hands on a double flaring tool, but it is a 45degree fitting not 37 degree. I was thinking that I could use the double flaring tool to make the initial folded over flare, then my single 37degree flaring tool to finish it off. Does anyone see a problem with this approach?? Thanks, Mick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2006
From: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo(at)ak.net>
Subject: Re: DOUBLE FLARING
Mick, I am sure you will get a bunch of answers from this question but here is my simple response. Automotive uses double flare, aviation does not. Why? Now there is another great question. I think you should try a few test pieces and see what happens. I think you might find that the tubing will crack. Mike Ice Anchorage, Alaska RV-9, all fuel lines bent, flared, and tight. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: RV9-List: DOUBLE FLARING > > Greetings Listers, I have been told that the safest way to treat flares > brake and fuel fittings is with a double flaring tool. I can get my hands > on a double flaring tool, but it is a 45degree fitting not 37 degree. I > was thinking that I could use the double flaring tool to make the initial > folded over flare, then my single 37degree flaring tool to finish it off. > Does anyone see a problem with this approach?? > Thanks, Mick > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV9-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2006
From: <dthomas773(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: DOUBLE FLARING
The tubing provided in your kit will most likely crack if flared to 45 degrees. If not when you flare it, some time in the future after your airplane is flying. Why take that chance? Why not just do it like Van's tell you to in your instructions? That's what I did and after 280 hours Iv'e had no problem at all. Dennis Thomas 90164 --- "Michael T. Ice" wrote: > > > Mick, > > I am sure you will get a bunch of answers from this > question but here is my > simple response. Automotive uses double flare, > aviation does not. Why? Now > there is another great question. > > I think you should try a few test pieces and see > what happens. I think you > might find that the tubing will crack. > > Mike Ice > Anchorage, Alaska > RV-9, all fuel lines bent, flared, and tight. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au> > To: ; > ; "RV FORUM" > > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:53 PM > Subject: RV9-List: DOUBLE FLARING > > > > > > > Greetings Listers, I have been told that the > safest way to treat flares > > brake and fuel fittings is with a double flaring > tool. I can get my hands > > on a double flaring tool, but it is a 45degree > fitting not 37 degree. I > > was thinking that I could use the double flaring > tool to make the initial > > folded over flare, then my single 37degree flaring > tool to finish it off. > > Does anyone see a problem with this approach?? > > Thanks, Mick > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV9-List > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fiberglass Tutorial
From: "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)BELLSOUTH.NET>
Date: Jun 10, 2006
OK, I hate to ask for this favor, but lately I find myself tired of fishing thru websites looking for this info so I thought I'd ask the experts out there for help. I've finished my empennage and am awaiting delivery of my wings and fuse. I figured I'd start smoothing the joints between the VS, HS, and elev and fiberglass caps. How? If someone could post a short tutorial on how to do this, such as do I use resin/hardener with filler first or fiberglass cloth and epoxy first, It would be a great help to me and possibly other builders out there also getting to this point. Thanks in advance. -------- Jorge Fernandez N214JL Reserved 9A QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39904#39904 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2006
From: Matthew Brandes <matthew(at)n523rv.com>
Subject: RE: Fiberglass Tutorial
jorge, I used west systems epoxy with some microballoons mixed in. This works really well. Very easy to sand. You could probaly also use the west systems filler as well. Do your best to get the fiberglass pieces fitted nicely. Don't rely on filler to take up a lot of space. I did a lot of sanding on the 'joggles' so that caps fit nice before using the filler. Matthew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL
THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but comes from 600+ hours of research I did while building my RV-8A. ------------------------------------------------------------ SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time that can be better spent "building your project", by using the comprehensive "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and Composite Aircraft" (In 3rd printing) Contains 66 pages of the latest, practical information - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't), Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from - PP&G, Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft Finishing Systems, 3M, etc. Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints * Corrosion Control * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, Aluminum and Steel * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial, Solvent & Water Reducible * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide, Enamel * Paint Types : MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes, Enamel * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using & painting problems * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints * Selecting a Paint Shop * 3M Cleaning Pads & Cleaners * Paint Booths and their Construction * References - MIL Standard & Tech Orders * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distributors - phone numbers, E- Mail addresses, Application Notes YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's "Paint Job", so have the latest "Information" in order to make good decisions. Contains "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save you time, $$$ and frustration. Send check for $26 (includes postage within US) to: Garey Wittich 58 Village Pkwy Santa Monica, CA. 90405 __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Hudson" <hudzilla(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: Re: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTRO
Sure looks like spam to me. I'll share my knowlege with you but only for a price. Not really in the spirit of this site is it? I vote SPAM. On 6/27/06, Garey Wittich wrote: > > > THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but comes from 600+ hours of > research I did while building my RV-8A. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time that > can be better spent "building your project", by using > the comprehensive > > "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and > Composite Aircraft" (In 3rd printing) > > Contains 66 pages of the latest, practical information > - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint > Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't), > Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from - PP&G, > Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, > Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft > Finishing Systems, 3M, etc. > > Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: > * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints > * Corrosion Control > * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel > * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, > Aluminum and Steel > * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial, > Solvent & Water > Reducible > * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers > * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide, > Enamel > * Paint Types : MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes, > Enamel > * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) > * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using & > painting problems > * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints > * Selecting a Paint Shop > * 3M Cleaning Pads & Cleaners > * Paint Booths and their Construction > * References - MIL Standard & Tech Orders > * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distributors > - phone numbers, E- > Mail addresses, Application Notes > > YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's "Paint Job", so have > the latest "Information" in order to make good > decisions. Contains "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save you > time, $$$ and frustration. > > Send check for $26 (includes postage within US) to: > Garey Wittich > 58 Village Pkwy > Santa Monica, CA. 90405 > > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Norman Younie <sa300(at)uniserve.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: Re: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTRO
I also vote SPAM Michael Hudson wrote: > Sure looks like spam to me. I'll share my knowlege with you but only > for a price. Not really in the spirit of this site is it? > > I vote SPAM. > > On 6/27/06, * Garey Wittich* > wrote: > > > > > THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but comes from 600+ hours of > research I did while building my RV-8A. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time that > can be better spent "building your project", by using > the comprehensive > > "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and > Composite Aircraft" (In 3rd printing) > > Contains 66 pages of the latest, practical information > - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint > Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't), > Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from - PP&G, > Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, > Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft > Finishing Systems, 3M, etc. > > Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: > * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints > * Corrosion Control > * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel > * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, > Aluminum and Steel > * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial, > Solvent & Water > Reducible > * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers > * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide, > Enamel > * Paint Types : MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes, > Enamel > * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) > * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using & > painting problems > * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints > * Selecting a Paint Shop > * 3M Cleaning Pads & Cleaners > * Paint Booths and their Construction > * References - MIL Standard & Tech Orders > * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distributors > - phone numbers, E- > Mail addresses, Application Notes > > YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's "Paint Job", so have > the latest "Information" in order to make good > decisions. Contains "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save you > time, $$$ and frustration. > > Send check for $26 (includes postage within US) to: > Garey Wittich > 58 Village Pkwy > Santa Monica, CA. 90405 > > > __________________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom & Carol Strong <tstrong(at)ida.net>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: Paint
Has anyone heard of or used Poxy Coat II to paint their airplane? I'd be interested in any reports. Thanks, Tom (Finally in the hanger) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dthomas773(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: Re: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTRO
Tacky, Tacky, Tacky,,,,,,SPAM --- Norman Younie wrote: > > > I also vote SPAM > > Michael Hudson wrote: > > Sure looks like spam to me. I'll share my > knowlege with you but only > > for a price. Not really in the spirit of this site > is it? > > > > I vote SPAM. > > > > On 6/27/06, * Garey Wittich* > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but comes from 600+ hours > of > > research I did while building my RV-8A. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research > time that > > can be better spent "building your project", > by using > > the comprehensive > > > > "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of > Aluminum and > > Composite Aircraft" (In 3rd printing) > > > > Contains 66 pages of the latest, practical > information > > - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, > Paint > > Shops, Builders like you (what worked or > didn't), > > Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from - > PP&G, > > Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, > Deft, > > Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, > Aircraft > > Finishing Systems, 3M, etc. > > > > Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections > are: > > * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints > > * Corrosion Control > > * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel > > * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, > > Aluminum and Steel > > * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & > Commercial, > > Solvent & Water > > Reducible > > * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers > > * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate, Zinc > Oxide, > > Enamel > > * Paint Types : MIL & Non MIL > Polyurethanes, > > Enamel > > * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings > (Alodine) > > * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, > using & > > painting problems > > * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & > Paints > > * Selecting a Paint Shop > > * 3M Cleaning Pads & Cleaners > > * Paint Booths and their Construction > > * References - MIL Standard & Tech Orders > > * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, > Distributors > > - phone numbers, E- > > Mail addresses, Application Notes > > > > YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's "Paint Job", > so have > > the latest "Information" in order to make good > > decisions. Contains "Do's" and "Don'ts" that > save you > > time, $$$ and frustration. > > > > Send check for $26 (includes postage within > US) to: > > Garey Wittich > > 58 Village Pkwy > > Santa Monica, CA. 90405 > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Streiker, Stephen D." <steve(at)streiker.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTRO
A message aimed at an appropriately targeted audience. I'd rather see this rather than another duplicative 'what kind of rivet gun should I get' type posting. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Younie Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 1:21 PM I also vote SPAM Michael Hudson wrote: > Sure looks like spam to me. I'll share my knowlege with you but only > for a price. Not really in the spirit of this site is it? > > I vote SPAM. > > On 6/27/06, * Garey Wittich* > wrote: > > > > > THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but comes from 600+ hours of > research I did while building my RV-8A. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time that > can be better spent "building your project", by using > the comprehensive > > "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and > Composite Aircraft" (In 3rd printing) > > Contains 66 pages of the latest, practical information > - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint > Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't), > Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from - PP&G, > Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, > Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft > Finishing Systems, 3M, etc. > > Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: > * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints > * Corrosion Control > * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel > * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, > Aluminum and Steel > * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial, > Solvent & Water > Reducible > * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers > * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide, > Enamel > * Paint Types : MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes, > Enamel > * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) > * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using & > painting problems > * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints > * Selecting a Paint Shop > * 3M Cleaning Pads & Cleaners > * Paint Booths and their Construction > * References - MIL Standard & Tech Orders > * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distributors > - phone numbers, E- > Mail addresses, Application Notes > > YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's "Paint Job", so have > the latest "Information" in order to make good > decisions. Contains "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save you > time, $$$ and frustration. > > Send check for $26 (includes postage within US) to: > Garey Wittich > 58 Village Pkwy > Santa Monica, CA. 90405 > > > __________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Jun 28, 2006
Subject: Turtle deck painting color
I'm making final decisions in the painting scheme of my -9A and I'm strugling with a particular decision: the color to apply on the fwd upper deck, just forward of the (slider canopy) fixed windshield. On one hand, I think it should be white, in order to reflect the sun and avoid creating heat down, where the vast majority of avionics and electric instruments are installed. OTOH, it should be black, in order to avoid geting sun reflection to the pilots eyes. What everybody thinks about this dilemma? Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jc(at)INFONET.COM.BR
Date: Jun 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Turtle deck painting color
Carlos: Its very important to think about sun reflexions in the pilots eyes. In my -9A Ive covered the upper panel with a light brown color fabric (corine) and the results are very bad. The sun reflexions in my eyes oblied me to cover it with a black towel. Some of brasilians -9A use a dark plastic film glued at inside part of canopy. It reduces the heat and brightnness inside the canopy. JC - Aracaju - Brasil #90997 PU-JCI Flying 145 hs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Kelly <mmpi(at)missionmedia.org>
Date: Jun 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Turtle deck painting color
Someone recommended flat black spackle spray (forget the company that makes it) that is used on the inside of auto trunks. It looks good and is REALLY flat non-reflective black with little flecks of grey. While I haven't flown yet, everything is painted and I have "tested it outside and I think it will work as well as a black cloth. Bob Kelly, final assembly On 06/28/06, jc(at)INFONET.COM.BR wrote: > > Carlos: > Its very important to think about sun reflexions in the pilots eyes. In > my -9A Ive covered the upper panel with a light brown color fabric > (corine) and the results are very bad. The sun reflexions in my eyes > oblied me to cover it with a black towel. Some of brasilians -9A use a > dark plastic film glued at inside part of canopy. It reduces the heat and > brightnness inside the canopy. > > JC - Aracaju - Brasil > #90997 > PU-JCI > Flying 145 hs > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Jun 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Turtle deck painting color
Hi JC Good to hear from you. Now in portuguese language. Obrigado pela resposta Eu estou-me referindo parte exterior frente do vidro do canopy, e no parte interior. Na parte interior eu j comprei (na Cleaveland Tools) um tecido preto prprio para forrar, juntamente com uma borracha preta para o topo da chapa sobre o painel de instrumentos. A minha dvida na parte exterior frente do vidro, entre o pra-brisas e a carenagem do motor. Carlos ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:55 AM > > Carlos: > Its very important to think about sun reflexions in the pilots eyes. In > my -9A Ive > covered the upper panel with a light brown color fabric (corine) and the > results are very > bad. The sun reflexions in my eyes oblied me to cover it with a black > towel. > Some of brasilians -9A use a dark plastic film glued at inside part of > canopy. It reduces > the heat and brightnness inside the canopy. > > JC - Aracaju - Brasil > #90997 > PU-JCI > Flying 145 hs > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Date: Jun 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Turtle deck painting color
Mine is a slider as well. I painted the dash flat black and the forward skin and cowl is white. I have had no problems with glare and I think the white surface keeps the heat in check. Regards, Mike Schipper RV-9A - N63MS - Flying www.my9a.com On Jun 28, 2006, at 4:58 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > I'm making final decisions in the painting scheme of my -9A and I'm > strugling with a particular decision: the color to apply on the fwd > upper deck, just forward of the (slider canopy) fixed windshield. > On one hand, I think it should be white, in order to reflect the > sun and avoid creating heat down, where the vast majority of > avionics and electric instruments are installed. > OTOH, it should be black, in order to avoid geting sun reflection > to the pilots eyes. > What everybody thinks about this dilemma? > > Carlos > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV9-List > wiki.matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Barney Rubble <big_azz_ham(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Turtle deck painting color
Since it is a 'Turtle deck', might I suggest you paint the logo of the University of Maryland? Fear the turtle, baby!!! Go Terps! Michael Schipper wrote: Mine is a slider as well. I painted the dash flat black and the forward skin and cowl is white. I have had no problems with glare and I think the white surface keeps the heat in check. Regards, Mike Schipper RV-9A - N63MS - Flying www.my9a.com On Jun 28, 2006, at 4:58 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote: > > I'm making final decisions in the painting scheme of my -9A and I'm > strugling with a particular decision: the color to apply on the fwd > upper deck, just forward of the (slider canopy) fixed windshield. > On one hand, I think it should be white, in order to reflect the > sun and avoid creating heat down, where the vast majority of > avionics and electric instruments are installed. > OTOH, it should be black, in order to avoid geting sun reflection > to the pilots eyes. > What everybody thinks about this dilemma? > > Carlos > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV9-List > wiki.matronics.com > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Hudson" <hudzilla(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 28, 2006
Subject: Re: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTRO
If there is any topic that doesn't need someone selling you information it is the paint topic. There is so much information available on the network and from the manufacturers that buying it seems a bit odd. I'll sell you a peek at my new website. The money goes to a good cause, beer. On 6/27/06, Streiker, Stephen D. wrote: > > > > > A message aimed at an appropriately targeted audience. I'd rather see > this rather than another duplicative 'what kind of rivet gun should I > get' type posting. > > > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Younie > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 1:21 PM > > > I also vote SPAM > > Michael Hudson wrote: > > Sure looks like spam to me. I'll share my knowlege with you but only > > for a price. Not really in the spirit of this site is it? > > > > I vote SPAM. > > > > On 6/27/06, * Garey Wittich* > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but comes from 600+ hours of > > research I did while building my RV-8A. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time that > > can be better spent "building your project", by using > > the comprehensive > > > > "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and > > Composite Aircraft" (In 3rd printing) > > > > Contains 66 pages of the latest, practical information > > - summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint > > Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't), > > Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from - PP&G, > > Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, > > Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft > > Finishing Systems, 3M, etc. > > > > Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: > > * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints > > * Corrosion Control > > * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel > > * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, > > Aluminum and Steel > > * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial, > > Solvent & Water > > Reducible > > * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers > > * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide, > > Enamel > > * Paint Types : MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes, > > Enamel > > * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) > > * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using & > > painting problems > > * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints > > * Selecting a Paint Shop > > * 3M Cleaning Pads & Cleaners > > * Paint Booths and their Construction > > * References - MIL Standard & Tech Orders > > * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distributors > > - phone numbers, E- > > Mail addresses, Application Notes > > > > YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's "Paint Job", so have > > the latest "Information" in order to make good > > decisions. Contains "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save you > > time, $$$ and frustration. > > > > Send check for $26 (includes postage within US) to: > > Garey Wittich > > 58 Village Pkwy > > Santa Monica, CA. 90405 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Date: Jul 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Turtle deck painting color
Are these lists still working? No messages for over seven days??? And essentially nothing for over two weeks??? Dick Tasker -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net>
Date: Jul 28, 2006
Subject: joggle
The joggles in the aft ends of 719 (the skin stiffeners that go between firewall and carry thru) were poorly done by Van's and I can't figure out how to fix them. They need to be 1/8" deep to nest properly at the carry thru flange and they are more like 1/16" deep. To compound this there is a serious bulge made by whatever tool was used to make the joggle about 1 1/2" forward of the end. This bulge is going to make quite a bump in the skin if I don't do something about it. Can any of you give me some guidance on how to fix this? About the only thing I've come up with is to saw off the opposing leg of the angle and then bend what's left to fit. Don't think this is such a great idea though. Bill Albion, Maine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net>
Date: Jul 29, 2006
Subject: Re: joggle
Bill, Do you have a quick build and the parts are installed or ate the parts loose and can be reworked? If the parts are off the joggle can be reworked in a vise. tape a 1/8 thick piece of on metal opposite sides of the joggled leg so that when you clamp them in the vice and everything if flattened and parallel the angle leg will form a joggle. You may have to experiment with some shims to get the joggle exactly at 1/8 inch. The distance between the ends of the shims (on opposite sides of the angle leg) should be about 1/4 inch apart to allow for the bends of the joggle. Russ Lewiston, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Chenoweth To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:05 PM Subject: RV9-List: joggle The joggles in the aft ends of 719 (the skin stiffeners that go between firewall and carry thru) were poorly done by Van's and I can't figure out how to fix them. They need to be 1/8" deep to nest properly at the carry thru flange and they are more like 1/16" deep. To compound this there is a serious bulge made by whatever tool was used to make the joggle about 1 1/2" forward of the end. This bulge is going to make quite a bump in the skin if I don't do something about it. Can any of you give me some guidance on how to fix this? About the only thing I've come up with is to saw off the opposing leg of the angle and then bend what's left to fit. Don't think this is such a great idea though. Bill Albion, Maine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net>
Date: Jul 29, 2006
Subject: Re: joggle
Russ, Thanks very much. After practicing a bit I tried it and I think made things a bit better. I did cause some distortion in the opposite flange but can't see how that will hurt. I don't have the quick build. Are you flying yet? Bill Albion, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ & Marilyn To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: joggle Bill, Do you have a quick build and the parts are installed or ate the parts loose and can be reworked? If the parts are off the joggle can be reworked in a vise. tape a 1/8 thick piece of on metal opposite sides of the joggled leg so that when you clamp them in the vice and everything if flattened and parallel the angle leg will form a joggle. You may have to experiment with some shims to get the joggle exactly at 1/8 inch. The distance between the ends of the shims (on opposite sides of the angle leg) should be about 1/4 inch apart to allow for the bends of the joggle. Russ Lewiston, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Chenoweth To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:05 PM Subject: RV9-List: joggle The joggles in the aft ends of 719 (the skin stiffeners that go between firewall and carry thru) were poorly done by Van's and I can't figure out how to fix them. They need to be 1/8" deep to nest properly at the carry thru flange and they are more like 1/16" deep. To compound this there is a serious bulge made by whatever tool was used to make the joggle about 1 1/2" forward of the end. This bulge is going to make quite a bump in the skin if I don't do something about it. Can any of you give me some guidance on how to fix this? About the only thing I've come up with is to saw off the opposing leg of the angle and then bend what's left to fit. Don't think this is such a great idea though. Bill Albion, Maine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: Jul 31, 2006
Subject: Matronics Email List Web Server Upgrade Tonight...
Dear Listers, This evening I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server hardware to a new Quad-processor 2.8Ghz Xeon system (yes, 4-physical CPUs!) with an Ultra 320 SCSI Raid 5 disk system and 5GB of DDR2 RAM. As with the older system, the new system will be running the latest version of Redhat Linux. Most of the software configuration work is already done for the migration, but I still have to sync all of the archive and forum data from the old system to the new system. I am anticipating about 2 to 3 hours of downtime for me to fully make the transition, although it could be considerable less if everything goes according to plan. The Matronics Webserver will be *UNavailable* from the Internet during the work, and you will receive a time-out if you try to connect during the upgrade. Email List Distribution will be *available* during the upgrade of the Web Server, and List message distribution will function as normal. This represents a significant performance upgrade for the Matronics Web Server and you should notice nicely improved searching and surfing performance following the upgrade! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gird A. McCarty" <mac11hsd(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: New RV-9A Builder:
My name is Gird Astor McCarty. My friends call me Mac. I am 70 years old and recently retired from the Department of Veterans Affairs where I practiced Dentistry. I am building a home and hangar on Hensley Air Park in Chuckey, TN. I have completed the tail feathers and have ordered the quick build kit. Living in Tennessee I know that I will have to pay sales tax on this purchase. My question is how is this done in a timely fashion to prevent any nasty notes from state. If anyone who has gone through this process and knows the drill would please contact me at mac11hsd@earthlink I would be most appreciative. I read the RV9-list & RVSouthEast-list daily and really enjoy them. Thanks in advance, Mac ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RScott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: New RV-9A Builder:
Welcome to the RV community. I don't know if this will help, but Oregon has NO sales tax. So a couple questions come to mind: Are you sure TN can enforce a sales tax on something purchased thru interstate commerce and purchased out of state? How would the state even know about it? RS RV-9A Wings Gird A. McCarty wrote: > My name is Gird Astor McCarty. My friends call me Mac. I am 70 years > old and recently retired from the Department of Veterans Affairs where > I practiced Dentistry. I am building a home and hangar on Hensley Air > Park in Chuckey, TN. I have completed the tail feathers and have > ordered the quick build kit. Living in Tennessee I know that I will > have to pay sales tax on this purchase. My question is how is this > done in a timely fashion to prevent any nasty notes from state. If > anyone who has gone through this process and knows the drill would > please contact me at mac11hsd@earthlink I > would be most appreciative. I read the RV9-list & RVSouthEast-list > daily and really enjoy them. > Thanks in advance, > Mac ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale" <slickrock@been-there.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: New RV-9A Builder:TAX
Welcome to the RV community. I don't know if this will help, but Oregon has NO sales tax. This is true. To avoid sales tax, you must register your aircraft in Oregon. So a couple questions come to mind: Are you sure TN can enforce a sales tax on something purchased thru interstate commerce and purchased out of state? Yup. Any state you reside in that has a sales tax will require you to pay it, no matter where you bought it from. How would the state even know about it? Ah Ha! They find out when you register the aircraft with the FAA. If you don't have receipts proving that you already paid sales tax to your home state, they will tax you on their appraised value of the aircraft. Don't ask me how I know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Cloud" <rv9ralph(at)flash.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: New RV-9A Builder:
Welcome Gird, The tax situation varies by state. The ultimate source of information is your stat tax office, either by phone, or internet. Ralph, Livermore, CA Wings - working on tanks. Craftsman model 9A -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gird A. McCarty Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 5:43 AM My name is Gird Astor McCarty. My friends call me Mac. I am 70 years old and recently retired from the Department of Veterans Affairs where I practiced Dentistry. I am building a home and hangar on Hensley Air Park in Chuckey, TN. I have completed the tail feathers and have ordered the quick build kit. Living in Tennessee I know that I will have to pay sales tax on this purchase. My question is how is this done in a timely fashion to prevent any nasty notes from state. If anyone who has gone through this process and knows the drill would please contact me at mac11hsd@earthlink I would be most appreciative. I read the RV9-list & RVSouthEast-list daily and really enjoy them. Thanks in advance, Mac ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented...
Dear Listers, Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially set the limit to 2MB and we'll see how everyone likes that. If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and how large their message was. Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start... Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Subject: sales/use tax RV 9
Date: Aug 07, 2006
recent threads discussed state use/sales tax on homebuilt aircraft. obviously utah monitors the faa registration. tax plus interest from the date registration was issued has been assessed. they have assigned a fair market value of $56,900 on the RV9. The tax levied is $3470.90. it probably is not worth haggling over the fmv but raising the date from which interest is assessed might be worth a few pennies.
recent threads discussed state use/sales tax on homebuilt aircraft.  obviously utah monitors the faa registration.  tax plus interest from the date registration was issued has been assessed. they have assigned a fair market value of $56,900 on the RV9.  The tax levied is $3470.90.
 
it probably is not worth haggling over the fmv but raising the date from which interest is assessed might be worth a few pennies.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: sales/use tax RV 9
From: "deuskid" <empire.john(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 07, 2006
I wonder why they are assessing tax on the FMV? It seems to me that they should assess on the purchases to create the aircraft. They would be taxing you on your labor and I am no expert but that is taxing a 'phatom' purchase. I think I would sum up all the invoices [including shipping] to come up with total purchases, less any taxes assessed on those invoices and use that amount as the sales/use taxable amount. I do believe they have an argument re: interest. You should have paid use tax the year you bought the part. So, sum up the parts purchased by year. Might be smart to pay use tax each year of build on the parts purchased that year. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53114#53114 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale" <slickrock@been-there.com>
Subject: Re: sales/use tax RV 9
Date: Aug 07, 2006
> "I wonder why they are assessing tax on the FMV? It seems to me > that they should assess on the purchases to create the aircraft. > They would be taxing you on your labor and I am no expert but > that is taxing a 'phatom' purchase." ------ As the tax commission explained to me, you are right. It is after all it is a SALES tax. You can present your case and show receipts/invoices, and only pay sales tax on what you actually spent (and did not pay sales tax on). If you cannot prove you already paid sales tax, or don't have receipts/invoices, they will then use the FMV. Now, PROPERTY tax is different and assessed based on FMV. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: sales/use tax RV 9
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: "Streiker, Stephen D." <steve(at)streiker.com>
And another good reason why all aircraft should be held inside a Delaware corporate entity. There is no good reason to register the aircraft in the domicile that is sits. Stephen D. Streiker steve(at)streiker.com M: +1 323 252 0277 ________________________________ From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: RV9-List: sales/use tax RV 9 recent threads discussed state use/sales tax on homebuilt aircraft. obviously utah monitors the faa registration. tax plus interest from the date registration was issued has been assessed. they have assigned a fair market value of $56,900 on the RV9. The tax levied is $3470.90. it probably is not worth haggling over the fmv but raising the date from which interest is assessed might be worth a few pennies. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Cloud" <rv9ralph(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: sales/use tax RV 9
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Remember there are 2 issues. Property Tax, in CA assessed for FMV by the county the aircraft is based in and the Sales/Use Tax, assessed by the state, based on the amount paid for the pieces and parts. Below is a post from a local Northern California lister. This information does only apply to California, however it may be similar in other states. Ralph, Livermore, CA Wings - Fuse in box - Taxes to be paid upon completion Subject: RE: [NorCal-rvlist] More Tax questions Leave it to me to comment on my own question ;-) I called the BOE (Board of Equalization, the CA state taxing body) today and here is what they said... If anyone's experience has been different, please let me (us) know. The woman on the phone gave me two choices when it comes to paying the use tax. OPTION 1) Pay use taxes when the kit is purchased. If this option is selected, when payment is made, a serial number would need to given to the BOE and they will create an account/file. When the plane is eventually registered (with the same serial number) they will have the prior payment on file and tax will not be assessed for items already taxed and paid. Just be sure to save copies of all your records/receipts/payments she warned. OPTION 2) Don't report or pay anything now, but pay it all at once when the plane is registered. The registration will trigger a BOE review and subsequent tax bill. I was surprised to hear her tell me that in either case, the Use Tax would be based on the price paid for the kit(s), NOT the value of the aircraft. She confirmed this with someone else in her office and gave me the example that if I paid $10,000 for the kit, even though the aircraft might be worth $80,000 finished, the Use Tax would only be based on the $10,000 kit price. I told her that this is done in stages over years and should I just send in additional Use Tax payments as more kits, engine, etc. were purchased. She said that if this project is multiple purchases over the course of time, it might confuse the BOE, and option #2 above would probably be better. She reiterated that if option 2 were selected the same would hold true, you would only be taxed on the purchase price of what you bought, NOT the value of the aircraft, again saying they would look at the receipts. Just reporting what I was told... but please take this with a grain of salt and confirm it with the BOE if you need to. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Larry Rush <k9hxt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/07/06
In Indiana they accept a copy of your bill of sale from Van's plus copies of the invoices for the kits, or quickbuild if applicable. That would be about $16k or $26k more of less. (probably more)Pretty easy on us home builders here. Sales tax is 6% here BTW. I certainly agree with the last thread. Larry, RV-6A built and flyin' "NINER LIMA TANGO SENDS" ---------------------- 1. 09:58 AM - sales/use tax RV 9 (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) 2. 10:25 AM - Re: sales/use tax RV 9 (deuskid) 3. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: sales/use tax RV 9 (Dale) 4. 03:47 PM - Re: sales/use tax RV 9 (Streiker, Stephen D.) 5. 09:02 PM - Re: Re: sales/use tax RV 9 (Ralph Cloud) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net Subject: RV9-List: sales/use tax RV 9 recent threads discussed state use/sales tax on homebuilt aircraft. obviously utah monitors the faa registration. tax plus interest from the date registration was issued has been assessed. they have assigned a fair market value of $56,900 on the RV9. The tax levied is $3470.90. it probably is not worth haggling over the fmv but raising the date from which interest is assessed might be worth a few pennies.
recent threads discussed state use/sales tax on homebuilt aircraft.  obviously utah monitors the faa registration.  tax plus interest from the date registration was issued has been assessed. they have assigned a fair market value of $56,900 on the RV9.  The tax levied is $3470.90.
 
it probably is not worth haggling over the fmv but raising the date from which interest is assessed might be worth a few pennies.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ BOE and they will create an account/file. When the plane is eventually registered (with the same serial number) they will have the prior payment on file and tax will not be assessed for items already taxed and paid. Just be sure to save copies of all your records/receipts/payments she warned. OPTION 2) Don't report or pay anything now, but pay it all at once when the plane is registered. The registration will trigger a BOE review and subsequent tax bill. I was surprised to hear her tell me that in either case, the Use Tax would be based on the price paid for the kit(s), NOT the value of the aircraft. She confirmed this with someone else in her office and gave me the example that if I paid $10,000 for the kit, even though the aircraft might be worth $80,000 finished, the Use Tax would only be based on the $10,000 kit price. I told her that this is done in stages over years and should I just send in additional Use Tax payments as more kits, engine, etc. were purchased. She said that if this project is multiple purchases over the course of time, it might confuse the BOE, and option #2 above would probably be better. She reiterated that if option 2 were selected the same would hold true, you would only be taxed on the purchase price of what you bought, NOT the value of the aircraft, again saying they would look at the receipts. Just reporting what I was told... but please take this with a grain of salt and confirm it with the BOE if you need to. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: GPS & Autopilot Setup
Date: Aug 08, 2006
I am using a ControlVision GPS (HP ipaq 4700) connected to my Trio EZ Pilot Autopilot and it is not working properly. Is anyone else using this same setup? I'm trying to resolve the problem and I'm wondering if it's working for someone else. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2006
From: Robert Roncace <rroncace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: FOR SALE: RV-9 Wing Kit, assembled empennage, and tools
I am selling my RV-9 wing kit, completed empennage, and all accessories. Little work has been done on the wing kit: nut plates have been riveted to both spars. The left wing is clecoed together in the holding fixture and most rivet holes have been drilled to size. The left tank has stiffeners riveted in but the tank is not closed. Other than the nut plates on the spar, the right wing parts are untouched. Includes capacitive fuel probe option and dual Duckworks 100W landing light assemblies. Also includes completed empennage assembly with electric elevator trim option. Total value at Vans' current prices is $8,055. Asking price for everything is $5,000, firm. Selling because I'm unable to spend any time on the project and I want to use my garage as a garage, not as a storage place for airplane parts. Besides, seeing the wing hanging there and knowing I won't ever complete and fly it is just depressing. Kit is located in Ashburn, VA, (that's in northern Virginia, near Dulles Airport, nearest municipal field is Leesburg/JYO) and buyer must pick up. Also, since I'm getting out of the airplane building hobby, I have the usual assortment of tools that I'd be willing to part with separately, such as: 3X Rivet Gun and Air drill (Bought surplus, well used but they work) Air powered rivet squeezer with several interchangeable yokes Air powered cleco removal/insertion tool Misc. dimple dies, countersinks, etc. Many, many clecos in #30 and #40 sizes Fluting Pliers, drill bits, etc., etc. Make me a reasonable offer. Bob Roncace rroncace(at)yahoo.com 703-724-0574 (evenings) __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FOR SALE: RV-9 Wing Kit, assembled empennage, and tools
Date: Aug 11, 2006
How much for the completed emp ? mine didn't turn out as well as I would like.. elevator trailing edges so I might want to buy one that is better.. can you send pictures ? Danny.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Roncace" <rroncace(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: RV9-List: FOR SALE: RV-9 Wing Kit, assembled empennage, and tools > > I am selling my RV-9 wing kit, completed empennage, and all accessories. > Little work > has been done on the wing kit: nut plates have been riveted to both spars. > The left > wing is clecoed together in the holding fixture and most rivet holes have > been > drilled to size. The left tank has stiffeners riveted in but the tank is > not closed. > Other than the nut plates on the spar, the right wing parts are untouched. > Includes > capacitive fuel probe option and dual Duckworks 100W landing light > assemblies. Also > includes completed empennage assembly with electric elevator trim option. > > Total value at Vans' current prices is $8,055. Asking price for everything > is > $5,000, firm. Selling because I'm unable to spend any time on the project > and I want > to use my garage as a garage, not as a storage place for airplane parts. > Besides, > seeing the wing hanging there and knowing I won't ever complete and fly it > is just > depressing. Kit is located in Ashburn, VA, (that's in northern Virginia, > near Dulles > Airport, nearest municipal field is Leesburg/JYO) and buyer must pick up. > > Also, since I'm getting out of the airplane building hobby, I have the > usual > assortment of tools that I'd be willing to part with separately, such as: > > 3X Rivet Gun and Air drill (Bought surplus, well used but they work) > Air powered rivet squeezer with several interchangeable yokes > Air powered cleco removal/insertion tool > Misc. dimple dies, countersinks, etc. > Many, many clecos in #30 and #40 sizes > Fluting Pliers, drill bits, etc., etc. > > Make me a reasonable offer. > > Bob Roncace > rroncace(at)yahoo.com > 703-724-0574 (evenings) > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2006
Subject: [ Alf Olav Frog ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Alf Olav Frog Lists: RV-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV9-List Subject: Prevent Water Behind Panel http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/alfolavf@online.no.08.19.2006/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2006
Subject: [ Bobby Hargrave ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bobby Hargrave Lists: RV-List,RV4-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV9-List,RV10-List Subject: Sticky Exhaust Valve http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bphargrave@worldnet.att.net.1.08.19.2006/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne" <wowens(at)darientel.net>
Subject: VOR antenna
Date: Aug 29, 2006
Where are folks installing Vor antennas? Thanks Wayne Owens new builder Georgia coast ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2006
From: Larry Rush <k9hxt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06
I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. Not difficult and if you notice that is where most of the spam cans put theirs. It is out of the way and you won't trip over it or some kid won't play with is on a ramp etc. I have seem some under the tail but I don't believe that is a good place. The reception pattern is pretty uniform and clear on the top of the tail also. Larry, RV-6A, N939LT since 2001. "LIMA TANGO SENDS" ----- Original Message ---- From: RV9-List Digest Server <rv9-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:57:33 AM Subject: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete RV9-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-08-29.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-08-29.txt =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/29/06: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:17 AM - VOR antenna (Wayne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: "Wayne" <wowens(at)darientel.net> Subject: RV9-List: VOR antenna Where are folks installing Vor antennas? Thanks Wayne Owens new builder Georgia coast ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne" <wowens(at)darientel.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06
Date: Sep 02, 2006
The antenna base (hockey puck) I have is wider than the top of the rudder. Did you cut a notch and let a half inch hang out on either side? Thanks again for your time. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Rush To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re:Vor Antenna
Date: Sep 03, 2006
Wayne, I installed an Omni antenna on the top of the vertical stabilizer. I an still in the building process so I cant comment on how well it works. I got mine from Wag-Aero part number C-173-000. The mounting block is a tapered block of plastic and is tapered to fit the general shape of the fiberglass cap of the VS. I have mine with the antennas pointing forward because of interference with the rudder counterweight. I have some pictures if you like. Russ Keith RV9A slow build rv9a(at)gwi.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 The antenna base (hockey puck) I have is wider than the top of the rudder. Did you cut a notch and let a half inch hang out on either side? Thanks again for your time. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Rush To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re:Vor Antenna
Date: Sep 03, 2006
Wayne, I installed an Omni antenna on the top of the vertical stabilizer. I an still in the building process so I cant comment on how well it works. I got mine from Wag-Aero part number C-173-000. The mounting block is a tapered block of plastic and is tapered to fit the general shape of the fiberglass cap of the VS. I have mine with the antennas pointing forward because of interference with the rudder counterweight. I have some pictures if you like. Russ Keith RV9A slow build rv9a(at)gwi.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 The antenna base (hockey puck) I have is wider than the top of the rudder. Did you cut a notch and let a half inch hang out on either side? Thanks again for your time. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Rush To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2006
From: Larry Rush <k9hxt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/02/06
Wayne, Yes, I did. I made up an aluminum mount (.032 to .046") with a couple 10-32 nut plates for the antenna center mount and riveted it to the top stab rib with four LP4-4 rivets. The mount has a 5/8" flange in front and rear, is about 3" long, and raises the "puck" up so the top is flush with the top edge of skin. The cut-outs are about 1 1/2+ long on each side, and of course the fiber glass tip needs a couple cutouts also. I also ran about a 4' long coax up thru the vert. stab. with BNC connectors on each end so I could easily remove the stab without re-routing the coax. You can leave the "puck" in place but remove the two stainless antenna whiskers for painting. After paint it is almost unnoticable. Looks great and VOR/LOC/GS receprion is as good as you'll get. I think I have a pic in my Build Log if you want one. I'll scan it and e-mail it to you. (built mine before digital cameras <: ). Larry "LIMA TANGO SENDS" ----- Original Message ---- From: RV9-List Digest Server <rv9-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 3, 2006 2:57:30 AM Subject: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/02/06 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete RV9-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-09-02.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-09-02.txt =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- RV9-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/02/06: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:20 AM - Re: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 (Wayne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: "Wayne" <wowens(at)darientel.net> Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 The antenna base (hockey puck) I have is wider than the top of the rudder. Did you cut a notch and let a half inch hang out on either side? Thanks again for your time. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Rush To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Garforth" <richard(at)hawk.flyer.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/03/06
Date: Sep 05, 2006
Wayne, I used the Commant V ant. I think the number is Cl 505. It fits and works fine and you can point the wiskers the rear and it clears the rudder OK. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV9-List Digest Server" <rv9-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:57 AM Subject: RV9-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/03/06 > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RV9-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV9-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-09-03.html > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv9-list/Digest.RV9-List.2006-09-03.txt > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV9-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sun 09/03/06: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:08 AM - Re:Vor Antenna (Russ & Marilyn) > 2. 05:08 AM - Re:Vor Antenna (Russ & Marilyn) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net> > Subject: RV9-List: Re:Vor Antenna > > Wayne, > > I installed an Omni antenna on the top of the vertical stabilizer. I an > still in the building process so I cant comment on how well it works. I > got mine from Wag-Aero part number C-173-000. The mounting block is a > tapered block of plastic and is tapered to fit the general shape of the > fiberglass cap of the VS. I have mine with the antennas pointing forward > because of interference with the rudder counterweight. I have some > pictures if you like. > > Russ Keith > RV9A slow build > rv9a(at)gwi.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:17 AM > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 > > > The antenna base (hockey puck) I have is wider than the top of the > rudder. Did you cut a notch and let a half inch hang out on either side? > Thanks again for your time. > Wayne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Rush > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM > Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 > > > I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net> > Subject: RV9-List: Re:Vor Antenna > > Wayne, > > I installed an Omni antenna on the top of the vertical stabilizer. I an > still in the building process so I cant comment on how well it works. I > got mine from Wag-Aero part number C-173-000. The mounting block is a > tapered block of plastic and is tapered to fit the general shape of the > fiberglass cap of the VS. I have mine with the antennas pointing forward > because of interference with the rudder counterweight. I have some > pictures if you like. > > Russ Keith > RV9A slow build > rv9a(at)gwi.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:17 AM > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 > > > The antenna base (hockey puck) I have is wider than the top of the > rudder. Did you cut a notch and let a half inch hang out on either side? > Thanks again for your time. > Wayne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Rush > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM > Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 > > > I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Vor Antenna
Date: Sep 05, 2006
From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
Where did you run the wire? Thru the VS? ________________________________ From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russ & Marilyn Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 7:06 AM Subject: RV9-List: Re:Vor Antenna Wayne, I installed an Omni antenna on the top of the vertical stabilizer. I an still in the building process so I cant comment on how well it works. I got mine from Wag-Aero part number C-173-000. The mounting block is a tapered block of plastic and is tapered to fit the general shape of the fiberglass cap of the VS. I have mine with the antennas pointing forward because of interference with the rudder counterweight. I have some pictures if you like. Russ Keith RV9A slow build rv9a(at)gwi.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne <mailto:wowens(at)darientel.net> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 The antenna base (hockey puck) I have is wider than the top of the rudder. Did you cut a notch and let a half inch hang out on either side? Thanks again for your time. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Rush <mailto:k9hxt(at)sbcglobal.net> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: RV9-List: Re: RV9-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/29/06 I put mine and two others on top of the vertical stab. .com/Navigator?RV9-List This transmission contains information for the exclusive use of the intended recipient and may be privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized review or distribution is strictly prohibited. Stark Investments is required to retain electronic mail messages, which may be produced at the request of regulators or in connection with litigation. Electronic messages cannot be guaranteed to be secure, timely or error-free. As such, we recommend that you do not send confidential information to us via electronic mail. This communication is for informational purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any investment product. Any information regarding specific investment products is subject to change without notice. If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pictures of flying RV-9's for Van's 2007 Calendar
From: "gbrasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 09, 2006
I sent a joking e mail to Ken Scott how last year they didn't have any shots of -9's. He said they can only work with what they get. So hey, you lucky guys that are flying, send in those pictures to Van's! -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Finishing #90623 Tucson, Arizona Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60646#60646 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Oz RV Builders
Date: Sep 17, 2006
This message is for any OZ builders. My Finishing kit is due to ship from VANS around October 9. Anyone who wants parts shipped out to OZ can have them put in the box if they fit. Contact me off line for order numbers and shipping details. Mick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: "Ray D. Congdon" <n7hqk(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: IO360
I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. ISA-USA Inc. Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure Ray D. Congdon 5515 N 4400 W Cedar City, UT 84720 USA www.isa-usa-inc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IO360
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Ray: Here's some feedback we gave a -10 builder about the possible use of the Conti IO-360 in that airframe. Hope you find it helpful. Not saying don't do it, but just give you some things to consider in making your engine selection. The TCM IO-360 was originally developed for use in the Cessna Skymaster. TCM later modified the engine for use in several models of the Seneca. The engine runs smooth, but it tends to be a high maintenance engine. Cores are not readily available for o'h due to its limited use in the certified market, and it has lots and lots of parts so it's expensive to o'h (much less buy one new.) It is a bed mount (which most TCM engines are except for the 520/550 C models.) The engine also has a tendency to run hot, but that can be dealt with on an experimental. Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com <http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/> ________________________________ From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray D. Congdon Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: RV9-List: IO360 I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. ISA-USA Inc. Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure Ray D. Congdon 5515 N 4400 W Cedar City, UT 84720 USA www.isa-usa-inc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Subject: Re: IO360
Date: Sep 22, 2006
Don't listen. Go with what Van's recommends. * The -9A doesn't need that much power * You are going to add a lot of build time trying to fit the bigger engine * You lose a lot of usable load * W&B will move forward, which will affect the flight characteristics, especially when flying alone with full fuel * The -9A doesn't need that much power Get a good 160hp Lycoming and if you need to get out of short fields or operate at altitude, put a C/S prop on it. Regards, Mike Schipper RV-9A - N63MS - 90+ hours www.my9a.com On Sep 22, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Ray D. Congdon wrote: > I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start seriously > considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of experiance (50 yrs+!) > tells me that if at all possible, I should consider a 6 banger and > he recomends the IO360 Continental. Anybody out there done this? > Thought about it? Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. > > > ISA-USA Inc. > Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure > Ray D. Congdon > 5515 N 4400 W > Cedar City, UT 84720 USA > www.isa-usa-inc.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Re: IO360
Date: Sep 22, 2006
Do you consider an auto conversion? Do you know the Eggenfellner Subaru H-6 ? Carlos Trigo RV-9A EGG Subaru H-6 engine (just a customer, no commercial link) Still not flying ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray D. Congdon To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: RV9-List: IO360 I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. ISA-USA Inc. Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure Ray D. Congdon 5515 N 4400 W Cedar City, UT 84720 USA www.isa-usa-inc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: Norman Younie <sa300(at)uniserve.com>
Subject: Re: IO360
If you go to the io360 engine your CG will be to far forward. The engine is too heavy. Norman Ray D. Congdon wrote: > I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start seriously > considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of experiance (50 yrs+!) > tells me that if at all possible, I should consider a 6 banger and he > recomends the IO360 Continental. Anybody out there done this? > Thought about it? Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. > > > ISA-USA Inc. > Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure > Ray D. Congdon > 5515 N 4400 W > Cedar City, UT 84720 USA > www.isa-usa-inc.com > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2006
Subject: Re: IO360
Hi Ray, Stick with what Van's recommends for the engine. Lyc. 320. To smooth it out and optimize performance, use the constant speed 3 blade MT propeller. MT Propeller has a new blade design available for the Lyc. 320 engine. One of my customers was the first to try them out. We flew our planes to Oshkosh this year. I could just barely stay with him in a climb. His 150 hp RV-9A vs. my 180 hp RV-6A. There wasn't much difference in cruise speed, either. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 09/22/2006 6:31:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, n7hqk(at)yahoo.com writes: I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. ISA-USA Inc. Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure Ray D. Congdon 5515 N 4400 W Cedar City, UT 84720 USA www.isa-usa-inc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Custer" <ddcuster@wmv-co.us>
Subject: Re: IO360
Date: Sep 22, 2006
You appear to be about where I am. I looked at all the options. I am going to go with a Mazda 13B rotary engine. Pros: 1. It has a history of robustness and resistance to catastrophic failure. NASA estimated that TBO would be 3000 hrs. Some vendors say 1500 hrs. No one really knows. One fellow flew his at reduced power (30 miles if memory serves) to a safe landing after loosing all the coolant (forgot to tighten a hose clamp - overhaul was ~$500). For me, this is the primary reason. 2. It's firewall forward weight is about the same as the Lycoming O320 that Van recommends. See attached chart (the chart includes the PSRU but I am not sure what else). 3. The p-port version has been dyno tested at 240 hp! 4. It is smoother than any 4 or 6 cylinder piston engine. No reciprocating parts. Much less vibration and shake. 5. It runs happily on 100LL, 87 octane mogas, and, with the proper fuel system gas with alcohol in it (Brazil requires 20% alcohol). Some builders, including Tracy Crook, use mogas almost exclusively. 6. Low cost. Initial cost will depend a lot on how much you use custom accessory parts. Bare reman engine is $2,000 to $3,000 depending on how many new parts are used. My local Mazda dealer quotes $2,000 plus $1,000 core charge (all parts are new or meet Mazda new specs). Overhaul is typically $500 for parts. If you can find a used engine you can overhaul it yourself. Cons: 1. It uses about 10% more fuel for a given power. But if you are willing to use mogas, currently more than $1 less expensive, the fuel cost is actually less. 2. You will have to educate yourself and make a lot of component choices. Lots of help on the net, you will not be alone. 3. The apex seals are lubed with 2 cycle oil. Either in the gas or by injection pump. I regard this as a nuisance. 4. It has a reputation for being exceptionally loud but that seems to be for the unmuffled version. I have heard audio clips that allow you to hear the wind noise through the canopy using a proper muffler. One builder says his is the quietest airplane at his airport. Not sure what that means exactly. Conclusion: the robustness is worth the extra effort and fuel. The power to weight is a bonus, particularly if you do mountain flying at altitudes over 14,000 feet as I do (my home airport is at 8,000 feet). Just don't exceed Vne. For more information start at: http://www.rotaryeng.net Doc Custer Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist Building RV9-A. Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray D. Congdon To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:29 AM Subject: RV9-List: IO360 I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. ISA-USA Inc. Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure Ray D. Congdon 5515 N 4400 W Cedar City, UT 84720 USA www.isa-usa-inc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: RScott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com>
Subject: IO-360
Everything Mike Schipper says is right on. Go with an O-320. It has an excellent reputation for reliability, if something does go wrong, every A&P knows how to work on them & installation has all the support you need from Van's. Vibration? Go with a model that uses a dynafocal mount. Observation: Long time experience does not equate with good judgment. A person could have 50 years practice and gotten really good at doing it wrong. A retired IA making a few extra bucks doing annuals almost ruined my wood prop by wanting to way over torque the bolts. I caught him as he was setting the wrench. Also, see the RVator a couple issues back for info on the Subaru--it's not worth it. Van's did side by side testing of their Lyc powered plane with a Subie powered plane of the same model. Cost was almost the same as the Lycoming and performance was almost he same, but installation of the Subie takes lots longer. Re: The Mazda, you're going to take a lot more time to get in the air doing anything other than a Lyc. Regarding auto gas: You can go with a 150 hp O-320 & use mogas. Some seem to use premium mogas in 160's, but I would want to talk with Bart at Aerosport before deciding to do that. Remember, KISS? The Lyc. is the simplest installation. And if you ignore all these folks advice, please let us know how your installation and results work out! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IO360
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2006
If you do go the O-320 route (or Lycoming 360), give some serious thought to going injected ... Bart at Aerosport will put together an IO-320 for you. There's lots of advantages to injection over a carb .... check out Dan C's project documentation at http://www.rvproject.com - his reasoning and general installation is very well documented. And a "been there, done that" comment - anything you do that diverts from the plans will cost you time - lottsa, lottsa time. If I look at my experience I would say 5-10 times as much time per custom item. g (N696WG - endless wrap up work - are we done yet ?) > I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start > seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of > experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I > should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 > Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? > Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. > > > > > ISA-USA Inc. > Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure > Ray D. Congdon > 5515 N 4400 W > Cedar City, UT 84720 USA > www.isa-usa-inc.com -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: gbrasch(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Re: IO360
Folks may want to consider the new ECI 340 "Stroker" engine for the -9. I am, considering the high DA enviornment I live in, in Southern Arizona. The engine seems like a lot of bang for the buck. As a side note, a Van's engineer had previously told me there would be no harm in using a Lycoming 360 in a -9, providing limits were not exceeded, as the 360 only weighs about 8 lbs more that a 320. Glenn Brasch, Tucson, -9a finish kit. -----Original Message----- >From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> >Sent: Sep 22, 2006 10:16 AM >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV9-List: IO360 > > >If you do go the O-320 route (or Lycoming 360), give some >serious thought to going injected ... Bart at Aerosport will >put together an IO-320 for you. There's lots of advantages to >injection over a carb .... check out Dan C's project >documentation at http://www.rvproject.com - his reasoning and >general installation is very well documented. > >And a "been there, done that" comment - anything you do that >diverts from the plans will cost you time - lottsa, lottsa >time. If I look at my experience I would say 5-10 times as much >time per custom item. > >g > >(N696WG - endless wrap up work - are we done yet ?) > >> I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start >> seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of >> experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I >> should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 >> Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? >> Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. >> >> >> >> >> ISA-USA Inc. >> Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure >> Ray D. Congdon >> 5515 N 4400 W >> Cedar City, UT 84720 USA >> www.isa-usa-inc.com > >-- >__g__ > >========================================================== >Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com >---------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IO360
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
Surprising any Van's engineer told you that. The issue - this has come up many times on various forums - is vibration. A 360 vibrates more and there have been cases of -9 empennage cracks in a matter of a couple hundred hours. It's not a good idea. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gbrasch(at)earthlink.net Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: RV9-List: IO360 Folks may want to consider the new ECI 340 "Stroker" engine for the -9. I am, considering the high DA enviornment I live in, in Southern Arizona. The engine seems like a lot of bang for the buck. As a side note, a Van's engineer had previously told me there would be no harm in using a Lycoming 360 in a -9, providing limits were not exceeded, as the 360 only weighs about 8 lbs more that a 320. Glenn Brasch, Tucson, -9a finish kit. -----Original Message----- >From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> >Sent: Sep 22, 2006 10:16 AM >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV9-List: IO360 > > >If you do go the O-320 route (or Lycoming 360), give some >serious thought to going injected ... Bart at Aerosport will >put together an IO-320 for you. There's lots of advantages to >injection over a carb .... check out Dan C's project >documentation at http://www.rvproject.com - his reasoning and >general installation is very well documented. > >And a "been there, done that" comment - anything you do that >diverts from the plans will cost you time - lottsa, lottsa >time. If I look at my experience I would say 5-10 times as much >time per custom item. > >g > >(N696WG - endless wrap up work - are we done yet ?) > >> I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start >> seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of >> experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I >> should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 >> Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? >> Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. >> >> >> >> >> ISA-USA Inc. >> Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure >> Ray D. Congdon >> 5515 N 4400 W >> Cedar City, UT 84720 USA >> www.isa-usa-inc.com > >-- >__g__ > >========================================================== >Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com >---------------------------------------------------------- > > This transmission contains information for the exclusive use of the intended recipient and may be privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized review or distribution is strictly prohibited. Our company is required to retain electronic mail messages, which may be produced at the request of regulators or in connection with litigation. Electronic messages cannot be guaranteed to be secure, timely or error-free. As such, we recommend that you do not send confidential information to us via electronic mail. This communication is for informational purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any investment product. Any information regarding specific investment products is subject to change without notice. If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: gbrasch(at)earthlink.net
Subject: IO360
You make a good point, but it's true, they did. But this is why I am now looking at the ECI 340, lighter, more power, and hopefully smoother than a 360. Glenn. -----Original Message----- >From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com> >Sent: Sep 22, 2006 11:05 AM >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV9-List: IO360 > > >Surprising any Van's engineer told you that. The issue - this has come >up many times on various forums - is vibration. A 360 vibrates more and >there have been cases of -9 empennage cracks in a matter of a couple >hundred hours. It's not a good idea. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >gbrasch(at)earthlink.net >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 12:28 PM >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV9-List: IO360 > > >Folks may want to consider the new ECI 340 "Stroker" engine for the -9. >I am, considering the high DA enviornment I live in, in Southern >Arizona. The engine seems like a lot of bang for the buck. As a side >note, a Van's engineer had previously told me there would be no harm in >using a Lycoming 360 in a -9, providing limits were not exceeded, as the >360 only weighs about 8 lbs more that a 320. Glenn Brasch, Tucson, -9a >finish kit. > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> >>Sent: Sep 22, 2006 10:16 AM >>To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV9-List: IO360 >> >> >> >>If you do go the O-320 route (or Lycoming 360), give some >>serious thought to going injected ... Bart at Aerosport will >>put together an IO-320 for you. There's lots of advantages to >>injection over a carb .... check out Dan C's project >>documentation at http://www.rvproject.com - his reasoning and >>general installation is very well documented. >> >>And a "been there, done that" comment - anything you do that >>diverts from the plans will cost you time - lottsa, lottsa >>time. If I look at my experience I would say 5-10 times as much >>time per custom item. >> >>g >> >>(N696WG - endless wrap up work - are we done yet ?) >> >>> I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start >>> seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of >>> experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I >>> should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 >>> Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? >>> Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ISA-USA Inc. >>> Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure >>> Ray D. Congdon >>> 5515 N 4400 W >>> Cedar City, UT 84720 USA >>> www.isa-usa-inc.com >> >>-- >>__g__ >> >>========================================================== >>Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com >>---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >This transmission contains information for the exclusive use of the intended recipient and may be privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized review or distribution is strictly prohibited. Our company is required to retain electronic mail messages, which may be produced at the request of regulators or in connection with litigation. Electronic messages cannot be guaranteed to be secure, timely or error-free. As such, we recommend that you do not send confidential information to us via electronic mail. This communication is for informational purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any investment product. Any information regarding specific investment products is subject to change without notice. If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your system. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Subject: IO360
Then again, my own RV-9A with a 165hp Eggenfellner Subaru balanced out at 0.02ips. Try to achieve that level of smoothness with ANY lyco! The 6 cyl 212hp is even smoother and weighs no more than an IO360. Myths abound... Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: IO360
Date: Sep 23, 2006
To dispell any myths about your Subie Install...how about sharing: The finished weight of your RV9A, Typical Fuel Burns/RPM's/MP's Typical Speed's (TAS's). Not meant as a flame at all, but just for an apples to apples comparision. I'm sure many people would like to see your real world number to assist them in making their decision when thinking about an alternative engine. Also, just a quick side but if you were to bolt your prop directly to the crank of your EGG and run it a prop RPM (vs. 3,4 or 5K RPM) then you'd see IPS number closer in line with Lyco, conversely if we put a re-drive on a Lyco it would go way down to. Again, not meant as a point of argument, just trying to make sure people have all the information as to quash any myths! I for one have nothing against Sube's or other alternative engines. It just always seems that there are only two sides to this argument....love 'em or hate 'em, and it really shouldn't be that way. Objectivity would go a long way - instead of subjectivity. Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of fcs(at)jlc.net >Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 2:29 PM >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV9-List: IO360 > > > Then again, my own RV-9A with a 165hp Eggenfellner Subaru balanced out at >0.02ips. Try to achieve that level of smoothness with ANY lyco! The 6 cyl >212hp is even smoother and weighs no more than an IO360. Myths abound... > >Gary > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Subject: IO360
> The finished weight of your RV9A, 1190 lbs, including full IFR stack, BMA EFIS, in-flight entertainment, extensive upholstery, cherry wood trim, excellent cabin heat, autopilot, dual batteries, fully redundant fuel and electrical systems, and of course an outstanding powerplant. > Typical Fuel Burns/RPM's/MP's All "real world" measurments are posted on performance page of www.eggenfellneraircraft.com (both 4 and 6 cyl). Typical 4-cyl (non-supercharged) cruise is 165/170mph at approx 7.5gph mogas. I've also posted miles per gallon and cost per mile and hour to illustrate real world economy. Fastest 4-way GPS for my own bird is 186mph at 7500'. No it won't hit VNE, because we have yet to figure out how to defeat the laws of physics (we're working on it). Dragging radiators through the air will always come with a penalty, but all things considered, the tradeoff is well worth it. Read through the web site and you'll see things in a different, real world, light. > Not meant as a flame at all, but just for an apples to apples comparision. No offense taken. But the fact is, they are not the same animals, so aside from raw numbers, the comparison is limited at best. There are far more factors to compare than performance alone. Take a ride in one and you'll see that very clearly. This is why our pilots love them. Total cost of ownership cannot be beat. > if you were to bolt your prop directly to the crank of your EGG and run it a > prop RPM (vs. 3,4 or 5K RPM) then you'd see IPS number closer in line with Lyco Not true at all. The Subaru has 7 main bearings on an 18" crankshaft and has no significant counterweights because of its symmetrical design. It is extraordinarily well balanced. Also fact, our redrive contributes more vibration (not the other way around as you suggest). It has a floating countershaft and four helical gears. These show up very clearly on a spectrograph. But even with the engine running at twice the crankshaft RPM as a conventional aircraft engine, we have achieved a very low level of vibration, not to mention quiet. It's hard to hang a price tag on the value of quiet... > conversely if we put a re-drive on a Lyco it would go way down to. No, the added gears, shafts, and bearings all contribute their own vibration signature. > Again, not meant as a point of argument, just trying to make sure people have all > the information as to quash any myths! No problem. It is particularly pleasing to let people quash their own misconceptions. > It just always seems that there are only two sides to this argument....love 'em or > hate 'em, and it really shouldn't be that way. That typically equates to "know about them" and "guess about them". Nothing pleases me more than giving the unknowing a ride in my plane. That always does the trick. With over 800 customers and as the second largest supplier of engines for RV's, it's only a matter of time before more people break away from the myths. We are lining up a Subaru fly-by for Oshkosh 2007. We've got around 40 customers so far. Should be fun. And by the way, for the hot-rodders out there, one of our customers flew his 4-cyl supercharged RV-7A at 215mph and 17,999' (prior to being intercepted). Ask Dan C. about it. Great talking to you! Gary Newsted -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Subject: Re: IO360
A 2 blade propeller has a second order harmonic that isn't present with a 3 blade propeller. For smoothness, get a 3 blade propeller. There are a number of different ones available. One would be the fixed pitch 3 blade Catto prop. It also follows that if you really want smoothness, get a 4 blade propeller. This eliminates the third order harmonics of a 3 blade propeller. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 09/22/2006 11:20:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gbrasch(at)earthlink.net writes: --> RV9-List message posted by: gbrasch(at)earthlink.net You make a good point, but it's true, they did. But this is why I am now looking at the ECI 340, lighter, more power, and hopefully smoother than a 360. Glenn. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: IO360
Date: Sep 24, 2006
The last RV newsletter from Vans had a comparison between IO 320 and Eggenfeller installations. Worth reading. I won't comment, but the number speak for themselves. Take a look. John Oliveira 90054 - still working on it On Sep 23, 2006, at 4:47 PM, SteinAir, Inc. wrote: > > To dispell any myths about your Subie Install...how about sharing: > > The finished weight of your RV9A, > Typical Fuel Burns/RPM's/MP's > Typical Speed's (TAS's). > > Not meant as a flame at all, but just for an apples to apples > comparision. > I'm sure many people would like to see your real world number to > assist them > in making their decision when thinking about an alternative engine. > > Also, just a quick side but if you were to bolt your prop directly > to the > crank of your EGG and run it a prop RPM (vs. 3,4 or 5K RPM) then > you'd see > IPS number closer in line with Lyco, conversely if we put a re- > drive on a > Lyco it would go way down to. Again, not meant as a point of > argument, just > trying to make sure people have all the information as to quash any > myths! > I for one have nothing against Sube's or other alternative > engines. It just > always seems that there are only two sides to this argument....love > 'em or > hate 'em, and it really shouldn't be that way. Objectivity would > go a long > way - instead of subjectivity. > > Cheers, > Stein. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of fcs(at)jlc.net >> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 2:29 PM >> To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV9-List: IO360 >> >> >> >> >> Then again, my own RV-9A with a 165hp Eggenfellner Subaru balanced >> out at >> 0.02ips. Try to achieve that level of smoothness with ANY lyco! >> The 6 cyl >> 212hp is even smoother and weighs no more than an IO360. Myths >> abound... >> >> Gary >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> mail2web - Check your email from the web at >> http://mail2web.com/ . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Subject: IO360
Date: Sep 25, 2006
1190# is about 100# heavier than my similarly equipped RV9 with 0320 without autopilot, necessary redundant battery, redundant fuel capacity. Mine weighed in at 1063#. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> > > > > The finished weight of your RV9A, > > 1190 lbs, including full IFR stack, BMA EFIS, in-flight entertainment, > extensive upholstery, cherry wood trim, excellent cabin heat, autopilot, > dual batteries, fully redundant fuel and electrical systems, and of course > an outstanding powerplant. > > > Typical Fuel Burns/RPM's/MP's > > All "real world" measurments are posted on performance page of > www.eggenfellneraircraft.com (both 4 and 6 cyl). > > Typical 4-cyl (non-supercharged) cruise is 165/170mph at approx 7.5gph > mogas. I've also posted miles per gallon and cost per mile and hour to > illustrate real world economy. > > Fastest 4-way GPS for my own bird is 186mph at 7500'. > > No it won't hit VNE, because we have yet to figure out how to defeat the > laws of physics (we're working on it). Dragging radiators through the air > will always come with a penalty, but all things considered, the tradeoff is > well worth it. Read through the web site and you'll see things in a > different, real world, light. > > > Not meant as a flame at all, but just for an apples to apples comparision. > > No offense taken. But the fact is, they are not the same animals, so aside > from raw numbers, the comparison is limited at best. There are far more > factors to compare than performance alone. Take a ride in one and you'll > see that very clearly. This is why our pilots love them. Total cost of > ownership cannot be beat. > > > if you were to bolt your prop directly to the crank of your EGG and run > it a > > prop RPM (vs. 3,4 or 5K RPM) then you'd see IPS number closer in line > with Lyco > > Not true at all. The Subaru has 7 main bearings on an 18" crankshaft and > has no significant counterweights because of its symmetrical design. It is > extraordinarily well balanced. Also fact, our redrive contributes more > vibration (not the other way around as you suggest). It has a floating > countershaft and four helical gears. These show up very clearly on a > spectrograph. But even with the engine running at twice the crankshaft RPM > as a conventional aircraft engine, we have achieved a very low level of > vibration, not to mention quiet. It's hard to hang a price tag on the > value of quiet... > > > conversely if we put a re-drive on a Lyco it would go way down to. > > No, the added gears, shafts, and bearings all contribute their own > vibration signature. > > > Again, not meant as a point of argument, just trying to make sure people > have all > > the information as to quash any myths! > > No problem. It is particularly pleasing to let people quash their own > misconceptions. > > > It just always seems that there are only two sides to this > argument....love 'em or > > hate 'em, and it really shouldn't be that way. > > That typically equates to "know about them" and "guess about them". > Nothing pleases me more than giving the unknowing a ride in my plane. That > always does the trick. With over 800 customers and as the second largest > supplier of engines for RV's, it's only a matter of time before more people > break away from the myths. We are lining up a Subaru fly-by for Oshkosh > 2007. We've got around 40 customers so far. Should be fun. > > And by the way, for the hot-rodders out there, one of our customers flew > his 4-cyl supercharged RV-7A at 215mph and 17,999' (prior to being > intercepted). Ask Dan C. about it. > > Great talking to you! > > Gary Newsted > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > > >
1190# is about 100# heavier than my similarly equipped RV9 with 0320 without autopilot, necessary redundant battery, redundant fuel capacity.  Mine weighed in at 1063#.
 
John Kerr
 
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net> <BR><BR>> --> RV9-List message posted by: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <FCS(at)JLC.NET><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > The finished weight of your RV9A, <BR>> <BR>> 1190 lbs, including full IFR stack, BMA EFIS, in-flight entertainment, <BR>> extensive upholstery, cherry wood trim, excellent cabin heat, autopilot, <BR>> dual batteries, fully redundant fuel and electrical systems, and of course <BR>> an outstanding powerplant. <BR>> <BR>> > Typical Fuel Burns/RPM's/MP's <BR>> <BR>> All "real world" measurments are posted on performance page of <BR>> www.eggenfellneraircraft.com (both 4 and 6 cyl). <BR>> <BR>> Typical 4-cyl (non-supercharged) cruise is 165/170mph at approx 7.5gph <BR>> mogas. I've also posted miles per gallon and cost per mile and hour to <BR>> illustrat e real world economy.
>
> Fastest 4-way GPS for my own bird is 186mph at 7500'.
>
> No it won't hit VNE, because we have yet to figure out how to defeat the
> laws of physics (we're working on it). Dragging radiators through the air
> will always come with a penalty, but all things considered, the tradeoff is
> well worth it. Read through the web site and you'll see things in a
> different, real world, light.
>
> > Not meant as a flame at all, but just for an apples to apples comparision.
>
> No offense taken. But the fact is, they are not the same animals, so aside
> from raw numbers, the comparison is limited at best. There are far more
> factors to compare than performance alone. Take a ride in one and you'll
> see that very clearly. This is why our pilots love them. Total cost of
> ownership cannot be beat.
>
> > if you were to bolt your prop direc tly to the crank of your EGG and run
> it a
> > prop RPM (vs. 3,4 or 5K RPM) then you'd see IPS number closer in line
> with Lyco
>
> Not true at all. The Subaru has 7 main bearings on an 18" crankshaft and
> has no significant counterweights because of its symmetrical design. It is
> extraordinarily well balanced. Also fact, our redrive contributes more
> vibration (not the other way around as you suggest). It has a floating
> countershaft and four helical gears. These show up very clearly on a
> spectrograph. But even with the engine running at twice the crankshaft RPM
> as a conventional aircraft engine, we have achieved a very low level of
> vibration, not to mention quiet. It's hard to hang a price tag on the
> value of quiet...
>
> > conversely if we put a re-drive on a Lyco it would go way down to.
>
> No, the added gears, shafts, and bearings all cont ribute their own
> vibration signature.
>
> > Again, not meant as a point of argument, just trying to make sure people
> have all
> > the information as to quash any myths!
>
> No problem. It is particularly pleasing to let people quash their own
> misconceptions.
>
> > It just always seems that there are only two sides to this
> argument....love 'em or
> > hate 'em, and it really shouldn't be that way.
>
> That typically equates to "know about them" and "guess about them".
> Nothing pleases me more than giving the unknowing a ride in my plane. That
> always does the trick. With over 800 customers and as the second largest
> supplier of engines for RV's, it's only a matter of time before more people
> break away from the myths. We are lining up a Subaru fly-by for Oshkosh
> 2007. We've got around 40 customers so far. Should be fun.
> ;
NEW MA

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D,C,Jones" <cliffjones(at)look.ca>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Subject: RV-List Tip up canopy release
I'm in the process of building /assembling the canopy release. The return spring for the release push rod seems to be too long and too heavy for the release to work without distorting the panel in the fully released position. Any suggestions? What have others done? Cliff Jones RV9A - fuse & canopy Chase, BC Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D,C,Jones" <cliffjones(at)look.ca>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Subject: RV-List: Steps
I'm about to rivet the steps on, but don't particularily like the universal rivets. Any reason why I can't use flush rivets? Thanks. Cliff Jones RV9A - fuse/canopy Chase, BC Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D,C,Jones" <cliffjones(at)look.ca>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Subject: RV-List: Steps
I'm about to rivet the steps on, but don't particularily like the universal rivets. Any reason why I can't use flush rivets? Thanks. Cliff Jones RV9A - fuse/canopy Chase, BC Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jef Vervoort" <jef.vervoortw(at)telenet.be>
Subject: IO360
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Last week I was offered a professionally overhauled (after 2000 hours) Lycoming IO-360-L2A including all the accessories and exhaust. This engine is rated at 160 hp by 2400 rpm, according the Lycoming booklet. Any thoughts, besides the important 8 lbs more weight? Jef Vervoort, Belgium, 9a ailerons & QB fuse waiting. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens gbrasch(at)earthlink.net Verzonden: vrijdag 22 september 2006 19:28 Aan: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Onderwerp: Re: RV9-List: IO360 Folks may want to consider the new ECI 340 "Stroker" engine for the -9. I am, considering the high DA enviornment I live in, in Southern Arizona. The engine seems like a lot of bang for the buck. As a side note, a Van's engineer had previously told me there would be no harm in using a Lycoming 360 in a -9, providing limits were not exceeded, as the 360 only weighs about 8 lbs more that a 320. Glenn Brasch, Tucson, -9a finish kit. -----Original Message----- >From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> >Sent: Sep 22, 2006 10:16 AM >To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV9-List: IO360 > > >If you do go the O-320 route (or Lycoming 360), give some >serious thought to going injected ... Bart at Aerosport will >put together an IO-320 for you. There's lots of advantages to >injection over a carb .... check out Dan C's project >documentation at http://www.rvproject.com - his reasoning and >general installation is very well documented. > >And a "been there, done that" comment - anything you do that >diverts from the plans will cost you time - lottsa, lottsa >time. If I look at my experience I would say 5-10 times as much >time per custom item. > >g > >(N696WG - endless wrap up work - are we done yet ?) > >> I'm getting to the point on my RV-9A that I need to start >> seriously considering an engine... My A&P with Lots of >> experiance (50 yrs+!) tells me that if at all possible, I >> should consider a 6 banger and he recomends the IO360 >> Continental. Anybody out there done this? Thought about it? >> Pros, Cons, etc. will be welcome. >> >> >> >> >> ISA-USA Inc. >> Industrial Strength Answers For Telecommunications Infrastructure >> Ray D. Congdon >> 5515 N 4400 W >> Cedar City, UT 84720 USA >> www.isa-usa-inc.com > >-- >__g__ > >========================================================== >Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com >---------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fcs(at)jlc.net" <fcs(at)jlc.net>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Subject: IO360
> 1190# is about 100# heavier than my similarly equipped RV9 with 0320 without autopilot, > necessary redundant battery, redundant fuel capacity. Mine weighed in at 1063#. Yep. I'm sure I could have put her (and me ;^) on a diet if I wanted to, but I like my creature comforts and gadgetry. Not everyone builds for the same reason. A lot of my own extra heft is from non-essential instrumentation (like a full primary six in addition to the EFIS plus AP plus DVD plus CD plus...) and lots of paint, wood, and upholstery. The amount I contribute to a liquid cooled engine is about 45lbs which seems to coincide with what other like-minded builders report. Still, I wouldn't change a thing (maybe less primer). -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2006
From: Norman Younie <sa300(at)uniserve.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Steps
They aren't as strong! D,C,Jones wrote: > I'm about to rivet the steps on, but don't particularily like > the universal rivets. > > Any reason why I can't use flush rivets? > > Thanks. > Cliff Jones > RV9A - fuse/canopy > Chase, BC Canada > > > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Steps
Date: Sep 25, 2006
From: "Streiker, Stephen D." <steve(at)streiker.com>
Plus... this is an area of turbulent flow and there likely is no real drag reduction bonus for the extra fabrication work. In fact... it is possible rivet heads in this area might even delay flow separation to some small degree. Stephen D. Streiker steve(at)streiker.com M: +1 323 252 0277 ________________________________ From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norman Younie Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Re: RV9-List: RV-List: Steps They aren't as strong! D,C,Jones wrote: I'm about to rivet the steps on, but don't particularily like the universal rivets. Any reason why I can't use flush rivets? Thanks. Cliff Jones RV9A - fuse/canopy Chase, BC Canada ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne" <wowens(at)darientel.net>
Subject: Fly in
Date: Sep 28, 2006
Eagle Neck community air strip is having a Fly in Oct. 21. We have a few completed and flying RV8s in the neighborhood plus RV 6 and RV 9A under construction. If you live in the Southeast please fly in. We are about 20 miles south of Savannah GA. We will be serving barbque lunch ($5.00). The coatal scenery is beautiful and the hospitality is great. Contact Wayne Owens wowens(at)darientel.net or 912 832 6778 and I will send you the flyer and arrival procedures. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IO-360
From: "rvatornate" <rvatornate(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 28, 2006
rs scott wrote: "cost the same as the Lycoming and performance was almost he same, but installation of the Subie takes lots longer. " It took me a couple of hours to run a return line to the tanks, then 2.5 hours from crate arrival to engine hanging on the firewall. Then next morning it took me slightly over one hour to make the electrical and fuel line hookups, run two fuel lines to a gas can and fire her up. All told, about 5 total hours from crate to running engine. Based on the other engine hanging parties I've been part of (rv6 and rv7a) (o-320 and 0-360) I'd say that the subaru takes no more, in fact, probably takes less time to hang and fire up than the lyco. Nathan Larson N217JT RV9E 570+ hours of smooth fun. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64575#64575 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2006
Subject: [ Alf Olav Frog / Norway ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Alf Olav Frog / Norway Lists: RV-List,RV3-List,RV4-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV9-List,RV10-List Subject: Trimtab problems are history! http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ao.frog@c2i.net.10.03.2006/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Watson Colleen" <watsoca(at)msn.com>
Subject: Nose wheel tube
Date: Oct 08, 2006
I have been flying my RV9A for a little over three years now and for the most part it has been very trouble free. Yesterday I had my second flat tire on the nose wheel. On both occasions I had checked the tires before I departed my home airport, landed without incident at another airport a nd when I started to leave an hour later the nose tire was flat. With a great deal of effort I was able to get the tire off, the tube out, my spa re tube installed and the tire back on. The first tube failed with a ver y slight split on the side wall. The second tube failed with a very smal l pin hole in the side wall. On very careful examination of the tire I c ould find nothing that would cause the failures. Has any one else had th is kind of trouble? If so how have you resolved it? I am considering bu ying another wheel and carrying an inflated tire and wheel as a spare ins tead of just the tube. Thanks for your help and interest, Dick Watson N509RW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Dwyer" <steve(at)cleanbrite.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel tube
Date: Oct 09, 2006
I've had two years so far flying my RV-9A and no problems with a nose wheel tire going flat. Steve Dwyer ----- Original Message ----- From: Watson Colleen To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: RV9-List: Nose wheel tube I have been flying my RV9A for a little over three years now and for the most part it has been very trouble free. Yesterday I had my second flat tire on the nose wheel. On both occasions I had checked the tires before I departed my home airport, landed without incident at another airport and when I started to leave an hour later the nose tire was flat. With a great deal of effort I was able to get the tire off, the tube out, my spare tube installed and the tire back on. The first tube failed with a very slight split on the side wall. The second tube failed with a very small pin hole in the side wall. On very careful examination of the tire I could find nothing that would cause the failures. Has any one else had this kind of trouble? If so how have you resolved it? I am considering buying another wheel and carrying an inflated tire and wheel as a spare instead of just the tube. Thanks for your help and interest, Dick Watson N509RW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Nose wheel tube
Date: Oct 09, 2006
No problems with nose wheel but I've noticed that as your brake pads wear there is a chance that-as they approach or slightly exceed max wear-they might leak brake fluid and allow air into the lines as the reservoir empties out. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ N872RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Oliveira <oliveira(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Quick Build Packing Crate
Date: Oct 18, 2006
I may need to ship my kit and I am looking for a packing crate for an RV7 or RV9 quick build kit. Mine is done past the stage of quick build but would probably fit in the crates. Is there anyone in Western NY, PA that has a quick build crate available or is scheduled to receive a quick build kit in the near future? Let me know John Oliveira 90054 - been working on it a while ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rear canopy installation
From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca>
Date: Oct 24, 2006
Greetings I think I have made a major screw up. I riveted the turtle deck on many months ago, and now that I am ready to install the rear canopy, it appears that, according to instructions, I must drill out the 200+ rivets and remove it. Is it possible to install the rear canopy without taking the turtledeck off? DUH! Randy [Embarassed] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70069#70069 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2006
From: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo(at)ak.net>
Subject: Re: Rear canopy installation
Randy, I saw your post and was hoping someone would jump in with an answer. I have riveted on the rear deck and am just about to start on the canopy. so you can see I am interested in what ever you find out. Why do you think you have to drill out and remove the rear deck? If you don't get any responses on this list try the Doug Reeve's Van's Air Force web site. Or if you don't want to do that or can't I will do it for you if you don't mind. Mike Ice RV-9 (working on electrical, waiting for canopy) Anchorage, Alaska ----- Original Message ----- From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > Greetings I think I have made a major screw up. I riveted the turtle > deck on many months ago, and now that I am ready to install the rear > canopy, it appears that, according to instructions, I must drill out the > 200+ rivets and remove it. Is it possible to install the rear canopy > without taking the turtledeck off? DUH! Randy [Embarassed] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70069#70069 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rear canopy installation
From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca>
Date: Oct 25, 2006
Installation manual talks of removing the turtledeck and doing layouts with it as well as for fitting. I did receive 1 response offline that said that while it may be slightly more difficult, he did not feel it was necessarily required. Still waiting to see if anyone has completed this procedure. Thanks, Randy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70114#70114 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com>
Subject: Rear canopy installation
Date: Oct 25, 2006
Randy (and Mike), I'm assuming you are talking about a tip-up canopy. If not, this won't help you much. I did not rivet that skin on until the aft canopy was trimmed but all is not lost. Just drill out the rivets along the sides until you can pull the skin away, say maybe 12 to 18" worth. That should give you enough play to slide the canopy in. Good luck. Bill Starting the paper work but sill have a lot left to do. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation Randy, I saw your post and was hoping someone would jump in with an answer. I have riveted on the rear deck and am just about to start on the canopy. so you can see I am interested in what ever you find out. Why do you think you have to drill out and remove the rear deck? If you don't get any responses on this list try the Doug Reeve's Van's Air Force web site. Or if you don't want to do that or can't I will do it for you if you don't mind. Mike Ice RV-9 (working on electrical, waiting for canopy) Anchorage, Alaska ----- Original Message ----- From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > Greetings I think I have made a major screw up. I riveted the turtle > deck on many months ago, and now that I am ready to install the rear > canopy, it appears that, according to instructions, I must drill out the > 200+ rivets and remove it. Is it possible to install the rear canopy > without taking the turtledeck off? DUH! Randy [Embarassed] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70069#70069 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2006
From: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo(at)ak.net>
Subject: Re: Rear canopy installation
Bill, (Randy) Ahh! Good on you. I forgot to ask the simple question if the chap was building a slider or tip up. Which is it Randy? Bill is building a tip up and I am doing a slider. Bill has an excellent web site and has been a constant resource for me. Bill, your work looks great, you will be flying soon. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:51 AM Subject: RE: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > Randy (and Mike), > > I'm assuming you are talking about a tip-up canopy. If not, this won't > help you much. > > I did not rivet that skin on until the aft canopy was trimmed but all is > not lost. Just drill out the rivets along the sides until you can pull > the skin away, say maybe 12 to 18" worth. That should give you enough > play to slide the canopy in. > > Good luck. > Bill > Starting the paper work but sill have a lot left to do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:07 AM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > > Randy, > > I saw your post and was hoping someone would jump in with an answer. I > have > riveted on the rear deck and am just about to start on the canopy. so > you > can see I am interested in what ever you find out. > Why do you think you have to drill out and remove the rear deck? If you > don't get any responses on this list try the Doug Reeve's Van's Air > Force web site. Or if you don't want to do that or can't I will do it > for > you if you don't mind. > > Mike Ice > RV-9 (working on electrical, waiting for canopy) > Anchorage, Alaska > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:20 PM > Subject: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > >> >> Greetings I think I have made a major screw up. I riveted the > turtle >> deck on many months ago, and now that I am ready to install the rear >> canopy, it appears that, according to instructions, I must drill out > the >> 200+ rivets and remove it. Is it possible to install the rear canopy >> without taking the turtledeck off? DUH! Randy [Embarassed] >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70069#70069 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: RV9-List Rear canopy installation
Date: Oct 25, 2006
From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow(at)wancdf.com>
I did the same thing and was able to install the rear window without removing any rivets. The rear window does get scratched a little, but the scratches will be hidden. Subject: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca> Greetings I think I have made a major screw up. I riveted the turtle deck on many months ago, and now that I am ready to install the rear canopy, it appears that, according to instructions, I must drill out the 200+ rivets and remove it. Is it possible to install the rear canopy without taking the turtledeck off? DUH! Randy [Embarassed] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com>
Subject: Rear canopy installation
Date: Oct 25, 2006
Mike, Thanks for the complements. If, and I do mean IF, I get it done before spring a bunch of us are talking about flying up to AK in July. I'll let you know how and if that happens. BTW, how is it we have a Michale Ice and a Daniel Snow on the same list? Bill RV-9 N941WR www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. Ice Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation Bill, (Randy) Ahh! Good on you. I forgot to ask the simple question if the chap was building a slider or tip up. Which is it Randy? Bill is building a tip up and I am doing a slider. Bill has an excellent web site and has been a constant resource for me. Bill, your work looks great, you will be flying soon. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:51 AM Subject: RE: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > Randy (and Mike), > > I'm assuming you are talking about a tip-up canopy. If not, this > won't help you much. > > I did not rivet that skin on until the aft canopy was trimmed but all > is not lost. Just drill out the rivets along the sides until you can > pull the skin away, say maybe 12 to 18" worth. That should give you > enough play to slide the canopy in. > > Good luck. > Bill > Starting the paper work but sill have a lot left to do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael T. > Ice > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:07 AM > To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > > Randy, > > I saw your post and was hoping someone would jump in with an answer. I > have riveted on the rear deck and am just about to start on the > canopy. so you > can see I am interested in what ever you find out. > Why do you think you have to drill out and remove the rear deck? If you > don't get any responses on this list try the Doug Reeve's Van's Air > Force web site. Or if you don't want to do that or can't I will do it > for > you if you don't mind. > > Mike Ice > RV-9 (working on electrical, waiting for canopy) > Anchorage, Alaska > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:20 PM > Subject: RV9-List: Rear canopy installation > > >> >> Greetings I think I have made a major screw up. I riveted the > turtle >> deck on many months ago, and now that I am ready to install the rear >> canopy, it appears that, according to instructions, I must drill out > the >> 200+ rivets and remove it. Is it possible to install the rear canopy >> without taking the turtledeck off? DUH! Randy [Embarassed] >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70069#70069 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rear canopy installation
From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca>
Date: Oct 25, 2006
I am building the tip-up version. Randy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70143#70143 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Cruikshank" <n19z(at)dslextreme.com>
Subject: Turtle deck
Date: Oct 25, 2006
Randy, I did the same thing. It's no problem. Just be careful triming the lower corners of the rear canopy. You have to trim the corners to near final size to fit above the clips holding the roll bar on so the canopy fits down on the roll bar. Leave enough glass ahead of the roll bar trim line to make a second cut. I did not and have quite large gap between the front and rear canopy. I think I ended up with about a 1/16th to 1/10th inch gap between the clips and the plex. Cut it too high and you don't have enough edge distance for the first screw going aft. Bruce. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: sales/use tax RV 9
From: "N941WR" <one4fun(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Oct 26, 2006
This is an NC issue only but it may apply to you. Here in NC there is a cap on how much sales tax you can pay on your airplane. What some builders are doing is to NOT pay sales tax on any of the parts but wait until they are assembled into an airplane and then pay a one time sales tax on the plane, which is capped at $1,500. Sales tax on $50,000 is $3,750. So waiting until the end is a significant savings. We also have the pleasure of paying a yearly property tax here in NC. I am yet to look into how I can avoid that bill but if it is anything like my car tax. I might have to sell my RV. :( -------- Bill RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70284#70284 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List Tip up canopy release
From: "N941WR" <one4fun(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Oct 26, 2006
This may be a bit late for you but check this out: http://www.repucci.com/bill/fuselage/canopy%20release%20closed.jpg -------- Bill RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70285#70285 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2006
From: "John Disher" <jdisher(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: sales/use tax RV 9
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Comcast Was Blocking Matronics Email Lists...
Dear Listers (Specifically Comcast Listers), For about the last two days, Comcast was blocking incoming email from the Matronics Email Lists because their spam filters thought the mail was spam. I was that people on Comcast are receiving List messages again. If you are a Comcast user, you might want to email them and express your displeasure with their Spam blocking policy, particularly as it relates to "matronics.com". Sorry for the hassle... Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics Email List Fund Raiser - November!
Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through these sole Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matornics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matornics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. Each message will generally highlight a particular feature or benefit of the Matronics Lists or detail a new feature or service that was added this year. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises aka Kitlog Pro (http://www.kitlog.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Paul, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: https://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really do feel like family. Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Have You Tried The New Matronics List Forum?
Hello Listers, One of the major new additions to the Matronics Email Lists this year was the addition of a new and full function Forum Web Site at: http://forums.matronics.com The best part of these new Forums is that they are tied directly to the Classic email distribution Lists! That also means that posts go in both directions. If you post a message on the Forum web site, it will be cross posted to the respective Email List. And, if you post a message to a particular Email List, it will be cross posted to the same respective forum on the Forum site! So, no matter what your content viewing pleasure is - either direct email distribution or web-based GUI interface, you can have it at the Matronics Email Lists! Won't you make a Contribution to support these Lists? It is your SOLE Contributions that make their continued operation and upgrade possible! The Contribution site is Fast, Easy, and Secure. Please surf over and make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2006
From: Ron <brown_rj(at)BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: fp props
Those who have experience with Cato and Sensenich two blade props, what are your thoughts. Having to make decision now.. Tks Ron _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2006
From: Bill McBride <bmcb(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: fp props
Ron,=0A=0AThe program on Tuesday is Jeremy MacDonald, a Brit who worked on Vulcans (a very cool English bomber) in England is going to talk about his prop balancing business.=0A=0AAs far as props, I know nothing about Cato, b ut do have a Sensenich that hasn't let me down yet. =0A=0ADo hope to see y ou Tuesday so I can get the latest poop on your project.=0A=0ABMcB=0A=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ron <brown_rj(at)BELLSOUTH.NET>=0ATo: rv9- list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:37:55 PM=0ASubject: ellsouth.net>=0A=0AThose who have experience with Cato and Sensenich two bl ade props, what =0Aare your thoughts. Having to make decision now..=0ATks ==== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Repucci" <bill(at)repucci.com>
Subject: fp props
Date: Nov 05, 2006
Ron, Do a search on the Van's Air force forum (www.vansairforce.net), this issue has come up a number of times on there and there is a LOT of info on that site. FWIW, I bought a Catto but have not hung it yet, maybe w/in a month or so. Everything I have heard sounded very positive. It should be noted, that with my O-290-D2 I really didn't have a choice as there isn't a Sensenich sized for this engine / plane combination. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: RV9-List: fp props Those who have experience with Cato and Sensenich two blade props, what are your thoughts. Having to make decision now.. Tks Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: fp props
Date: Nov 05, 2006
I have a Catto two blade prop on my -6 and could not be more satisfied with its performance. The Catto weighs about 13 pounds versus something like 40 pounds for the recommended Sensenich. I fly with several RV's with constant speed props and have no problem staying with them in cruise and in cruise climb, often with lower fuel burn for equal IAS. A plus is that there are no RPM restrictions other than a limit speed of, as I recall, 3000 RPM for my prop :-). Several RV's in this area are also using Catto three blade props and the owners are very satisfied with them. My personal observation of the three blade props is that they seem to offer better initial acceleration and climb versus the two blade and run very smooth but may not be quite as efficient in cruise. BTW, I have no connection to Craig Catto other than that I am convinced that he makes great propellers. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 286 hours -------------- Original message -------------- From: Ron <brown_rj(at)BELLSOUTH.NET> > > Those who have experience with Cato and Sensenich two blade props, what > are your thoughts. Having to make decision now.. > Tks > Ron > > > >
I have a Catto two blade prop on my -6 and could not be more satisfied with its performance.  The Catto weighs about 13 pounds versus something like 40 pounds for the recommended Sensenich.  I fly with several RV's with constant speed props and have no problem staying with them in cruise and in cruise climb, often with lower fuel burn for equal IAS.  A plus is that there are no RPM restrictions other than a limit speed of, as I recall, 3000 RPM for my prop :-).  Several RV's in this area are also using Catto three blade props and the owners are very satisfied with them.  My personal observation of the three blade props is that they seem to offer better initial acceleration and climb versus the two blade and run very smooth but may not be quite as efficient in cruise.
 
BTW, I have no connection to Craig Catto other than that I am convinced that he makes great propellers.
 
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 286 hours
 
ises w

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Wow, Cool! New List Feature... [Please Read]
Dear Listers, By popular suggestion, I've written a substantial new code module for the Matronics Email Lists system. Here's how it works... During each November, I send out quite a few PBS-like "Please make a Contribution to support your List" emails. Wouldn't it be cool if, once a member made a Contribution, they didn't have to receive my support pleas anymore for the rest of that year? Well, that's exactly what I've written! Following this posting, anyone that makes a List Contribution in 2006 will no longer receive my Contribution Pleas for the rest of the year! The best part is this not only applies to the Realtime distribution, but also the Digest distribution! For those that have made a Contribution, the Daily Digest email-version will be invisibly stripped of my requests as well! (Note that my requests will still be present in the online versions of the Digests, List Browse, and on the Forum site.) For those submitting their Contribution by personal Check, please be sure to include your email address along with your Check as this is what is used to determine eligibility. So, in a nutshell, here's how it works: Make a Contribution = No more "Please Make a Contribution" messages! How sweet is that? If that's not a great reason to jump on the Matronics Email List Contribution site and make your donation today, I don't know what is! Don't forget that there are some totally awesome free gifts to be had along with your List Contribution this year!! Don't wait a minute longer to support your Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your Support!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet!
:-) If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the first PBS-like funds drive message under the new distribution system. The new system selectively sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new feature. I've wanted to implement something like this for a number of years now, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally this year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site. I'm pretty sure you don't either. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org>
Subject: Re: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet!
:-)
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Matt I contributed-- still got the email. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 3:12 AM Subject: RV9-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) > > If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because > you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the > first PBS-like funds drive message under the new distribution system. The > new system selectively sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those > that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the > continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you > wish PBS worked that way? :-) > > You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support > requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your > personal email inbox! Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new > feature. I've wanted to implement something like this for a number of > years now, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end > List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally this year, > I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to > make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! > > Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one > of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support > that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to > run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade > Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the > computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. > > Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other > Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and > running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics > Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism > that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't > want to have it on my Email List site. I'm pretty sure you don't either. > > If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the > Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that > way!! > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Thank you! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Tailwheel - 782 cover
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Talk about serendipity. I am at the stage with the fuselage where I'm riveting the tail cone, center section, and forward section together. The fuselage is still upside down. While waiting for my wife (the bucker) to get free I've spent a few days doing tasks that are listed later on in the instructions. I had not riveted the bottom forward skin on yet. I came to the front covers. For those of you with the tailwheel version I'm hoping you can give me some insights on fitting and attaching the 782D angles to the 9101 web. Since I hadn't riveted the forward bottom skin on I've got that off now but I'm still not sure how is the best way to proceed. I can't imagine what this would be like if that skin were permanently on. So far as I can tell the instructions are completely silent on this subject (looks to me as if all the fitting should have been done long ago and the riveting done as a pre-cursor to the stage I'm in now, but, oh well) and the drawing is ok but has errors, as it turns out. I have found out the hard way that if the nutplates in the 782D are installed before 782D is riveted to 9101 you can't get the rivet puller on the rivets and if you wait to do the nutplates till 782D is riveted to 9101 you can't get a squeezer on some of the rivets. In my case the holes are drilled for the nutplates per the drawing but they aren't installed. The other, hopefully minor, problem is that one can't cleco the 782D to the 9101 because there isn't enough interstitial space for the end of the cleco. How have you handled keeping the angle positioned properly while drilling the four holes? The only thing that has occurred to me is to pull a rivet at each hole as I go along. I'm going to use 3/32 monel rivets (ok'd by Van's) because the LP4-3s seem outrageously large for this application. Bill Albion, Maine Flying a Kitfox IV when not building ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation...
Dear Listers, A number of Listers emailed and indicated that, even though they had made a Contribution this year, they still received the Contribution message yesterday. I looked into it and I found a slight anomaly (ok, bug) in the new code specifically as it related to Listers that had made their Contribution through PayPal AND have a DIFFERENT email address for their PayPal account and for their Matronics List subscription. If your PayPal account email address is DIFFERENT than the email address you are subscribed to the Matronics List(s) as, then my new code module couldn't tell that you had made a Contribution, since it was using the PayPal email address instead of the List email. I've fixed this issue for any new PayPal Contributions, but I don't have any easy way of resolving this for any of the previous Contribtuions. Again, this is ONLY an issue if your PayPal and Matronics List email addresses ARE NOT the same. Otherwise, everything works great. If you made a PayPal Contribution before 11/09/06 AND your email addresses don't match, please drop me an email at " info(at)matronics.com " (do not reply to this message!) and give me your Name, and both Email Addresses and I will manually update the records so that things will work as advertised. Sorry for the hassle! New code; new bugs... :-) To make a Contribution, please see: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administration ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike MacKay" <starsailor(at)fidalgo.net>
Subject: Re: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet!
:-)
Date: Nov 10, 2006
Please take me off this Email. Thanks - Mike MacKay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:12 AM Subject: RV9-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) > > If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because > you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the > first PBS-like funds drive message under the new distribution system. The > new system selectively sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those > that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the > continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you > wish PBS worked that way? :-) > > You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support > requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your > personal email inbox! Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new > feature. I've wanted to implement something like this for a number of > years now, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end > List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally this year, > I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to > make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! > > Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one > of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support > that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to > run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade > Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the > computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. > > Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other > Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and > running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics > Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism > that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't > want to have it on my Email List site. I'm pretty sure you don't either. > > If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the > Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that > way!! > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Thank you! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Wiki...
Dear Listers, I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition: A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] or [ wi .ki ] ) is a type of Web site that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration. This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site, or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia. Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not: structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition. The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited. There are several things that happen as a result: 1. The person gets his or her question answered; 2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question; 3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed at seeing the same things over and over and over and ... So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered. You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful. So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki! It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately. It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence and structure. But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then! So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying, maintaining, and understanding our airplanes. But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is, he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that. And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page. The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want to. So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people and the more information they will put here for YOU to use. Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place): http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: WLAS [Please Read]
Dear Listers, I sat down at the 'ol computer tonight to have a look at a few of the nice comments List Members have been including along with their Contributions this year. I was amazed at how many I found and even more amazed at some of the very nice things Listers have been saying about the Lists and how valuable the they are to them. I've included quite a few of these nice comments below. Please read over some of this great Lister feedback. No doubt you will find that you agree with at least one or two of those comments - maybe all of them! If you find that do, won't you please make a Contribution to support these Lists today!! Its fast and easy with the Matronics List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Don't forget that I've now fully implemented the new *List Fund Raiser Squelch* feature that will automatically intercept any future iterations of my "Please Contribute" messages -- that is, *once you've made YOUR Contribution*! How cool is that? (Make sure the email address you enter along with your Contribution matches exactly your subscribed List email address. An exact match is how it works.) Thank you for your generous Contributions this year and for all the wonderful comments!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ Absolutely the best deal on the Internet!! -Owen B I love The Matronics... -Robeto B My wife has her soaps & I've got my lists! -Hal B These lists are, indeed, the lifeline of our hobby. -Bob R The best source of information for my a/c. -Tony C The Zenith list is the first thing I read in the morning. -Herbert H You do more good than you can imagine. I wish I'd known about you while I was building my Kitfox, but you are still an after-the-fact resource. -Ben B ..an excellent site. -Ashley M The "List" has been the ultimate help for my Zenith CH 701 project!! -Brian U I appreciate the list being here for me. -Geoff H ..a great service. -William C The List continues to be an interesting and useful facility. -David M Your list is a constant goad to keep me working on my project. -Thomas S ..a great service. -Robert W The Pietenpol list is a great resource. -Benjamin W The Yak-list is Awesome! -James S ..great service. -Robert S The features you have implemented recently have you poised to knock out yahoo groups... -Danny D I like how your forum looks/works and the list service... -Ken E ..great service. -David P Very useful web site. -Wayne E ..a very valuable service. -Chris D Great sites... -Randall R I used to look at [that other] site also but it's gotten so cluttered with advertising that I've stopped looking at it. -Wayne E Without your services, the build would be a grope in the dark... -Fergus K The information and help I've received greatly outweighs the donation... -Lee P ..great service! -Christopher D I really don't think I could be building my plane without the wisdom I find on this list. -William G It really makes building a pleasure. -James P ..great service. -Doug W I'm getting near the end of my build (Europa tri XS) don't think I could have done it with out the help of the forum. -Stanislaus S Marvelous service. Couldn't have done it without you. -Jim G Love the list, this is a wonderful way to help others... -Michael S ..good service. -Derek L The list is responsible for helping me complete this project and educating me in the process. -Jeff D Definitely worth the donation. -Ron L ..great service to the aviation community. -Tony P I have been flying my plane for 5 years (RV-6) but I still get valuable information from this service. -Don N A very helpful site. -Roland S It's a great community to be part of. -David L Great sites. -John C A great place to find and share not only information but to meet people across the country and make lasting relationships. -Uncle Craig Great facility. -Peter H Its a great source of information! -Michael W Great improvements to the List... -Edward A Great service!!! -Rich D ..great resource! -William C ..excellent lists! -Michael S Couldn't have built my RV4 without the list. -Warren M ..a great service... -James N I would not have missed [the list] for anything during the building of my Europa. -Svein J ..another great year. -Robert D ..this [is an] essential builder's resource. -David A ..excellent service. -Gregory B I've learned a huge amount of "stuff" over the past year and look forward to it every day! -Smith M ..a great communication tool... -Jon M Finished building 5 years ago, but still are lurking on your great list! -Lothar K ..a valuable service. At 11:00 pm Matronics is the goto place for my RV questions. -Mike D ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: LOC
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Value...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least 0 or 0 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists?


May 23, 2006 - November 20, 2006

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