RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.vol-bg
June 24, 2014 - December 07, 2014
They are not fuel resistant and will cause many fuel related
problems.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:16 AM
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on |
suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
Hi Bill,
I took the header tank off today, emptied and cleaned it.
It had some silicon gasket material left over from when I
installed the fuel level sender. Occasionally bits would
float around and block the exit orifice and cause fuel flow
to slow down substantially, exactly as you described. I
expect things will go back to normal as soon as I re-mount
the tank.
Thanks again for the help!
Regards,
Sacha
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of william sullivan
Sent: Sunday, 22 June, 2014 14:27
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on
suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
-->
Sacha- I can think of a couple of things to check before
blaming the pump.
First, are the tanks vented? Are the vents functioning?
Second, make sure that there isn't something blocking the
fuel intake. I had this problem once on a new piece of
equipment with a diesel engine. It would sit and run at
full throttle for hours, but if it went down the street it
would suck air, and shut the engine down. It drove us nuts
for a while, until we pulled the fuel tank and found a 1"
square piece of masking tape drifting around in the fuel.
When it sloshed over to the sucker tube, it blocked it and
shut down the engine. Air in the fuel always makes me think
of that.
We found it by pulling the plug at the bottom and trying to
drain it. The fuel would stop running. Poke a wire in
there, and it would run again. It was invisible when soaked
with fuel. We had to pull the tank to get it out.
The tape had been used to cover all openings when shipped
from one factory to another, and a piece dropped in when
the manufacturer pulled it off.
Bill
Sullivan
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 6/22/14, Sacha wrote:
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on
suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2014, 3:56 AM
--> RotaxEngines-List message
posted by: "Sacha"
Hi Folks,
Yesterday was supposed to be my final fuel flow test before
taking to the air again. I have recently installed a fuel
return line in my 912 system and also a fuel pressure
gauge. The a/c is a Kitfox tri-gear, so high-wing with
tanks in each wing and a header tank located behind the
seats.----
A further investigation revealed that the fuel that was
being pushed out contained some air bubbles, which to me
means that air must be entering the fuel circuit on the
suction side of the electrical pump.
RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
=
Photoshare, and much much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
Yes indeed. I should have just mounted the sender with the cork gasket that came
with it.
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 19:02, "John Hauck" wrote:
>
> Silicone seal/products don't get along well with gasoline.
> They are not fuel resistant and will cause many fuel related
> problems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Magnetic plug torque |
| From: | Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
Hello. I have a 14 year old 80 HP 912UL. I had the magnetic plug changed out a
couple of years ago because it had been stripped. I have a question about the
torque. I went to the Rotax class in Sebring over the winter and my notes say
that the torque is 100 inch pounds, max of 140 in pounds. The maintenance manual
that I have says 18.5 foot pounds, which is 222 inch pounds.
Probably my notes are wrong, but I just want to be sure because 222 inch pounds
sounds like a lot. Thanks.
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug torque |
| From: | Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
OK, I just answered my own question. I checked the newest on-line maintenance manual
and the torque for the magnetic plug is 18.5 foot pounds. I should have
checked before bothering the Matronics list. Thanks.
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Damien Graham wrote:
>
>
> Hello. I have a 14 year old 80 HP 912UL. I had the magnetic plug changed out
a couple of years ago because it had been stripped. I have a question about the
torque. I went to the Rotax class in Sebring over the winter and my notes say
that the torque is 100 inch pounds, max of 140 in pounds. The maintenance manual
that I have says 18.5 foot pounds, which is 222 inch pounds.
> Probably my notes are wrong, but I just want to be sure because 222 inch pounds
sounds like a lot. Thanks.
> Regards,
> Damien
> N48TK
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug torque |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Damien,
You are correct. That said I find 18.5 ft/lbs a little too much and makes removal
a little too hard. That is one reason why the old style with the #40 Torx head
stripped out, not ot mention some didn't seat the driver all the way to the
bottom of the plug before they applied pressure to unscrew it. The whole idea
is to tighten the plug so it won't leak or back out. I usually use less torque
and it is secured on top of the torque with safety wire. I have never had one
loosen in all my years. Try a little less torque it will work just fine.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425413#425413
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
Sacha- Never use any of the RTV sealants with a cork/rubber gasket. The RTV
will cause the gasket to crumble later on. I think the solvent in the RTV dissolves
the latex.
Bill Sullivan
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/24/14, Sacha wrote:
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or
is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
To: "rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 3:17 PM
--> RotaxEngines-List message
posted by: Sacha
Yes indeed. I should have just mounted the sender with the
cork gasket that came with it.
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 19:02, "John Hauck"
wrote:
>
> Silicone seal/products don't get along well with
gasoline.
> They are not fuel resistant and will cause many fuel
related
> problems.
RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
Bill
Thank you. I'm not sure what RTV is. I used some red stuff which I thought was
for engine gaskets. I think Motorsil was the brand. Anyway just to be sure I'll
remove it as it serves no useful purpose.
Sacha
> On Jun 25, 2014, at 15:26, william sullivan wrote:
>
>
> Sacha- Never use any of the RTV sealants with a cork/rubber gasket. The RTV
will cause the gasket to crumble later on. I think the solvent in the RTV dissolves
the latex.
>
> Bill Sullivan
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 6/24/14, Sacha wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or
is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
> To: "rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com"
> Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 3:17 PM
>
> --> RotaxEngines-List message
> posted by: Sacha
>
> Yes indeed. I should have just mounted the sender with the
> cork gasket that came with it.
>
>>> On Jun 24, 2014, at 19:02, "John Hauck"
>> wrote:
>>
>> Silicone seal/products don't get along well with
> gasoline.
>> They are not fuel resistant and will cause many fuel
> related
>> problems.
>
>
> RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug torque |
| From: | Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
Roger:
Thanks very much for the reply. Have you ever thought about opening a subsidiary
in the NorthEast ???
Regards,
Damien
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 9:39 PM, "Roger Lee" wrote:
>
>
> Hi Damien,
>
> You are correct. That said I find 18.5 ft/lbs a little too much and makes removal
a little too hard. That is one reason why the old style with the #40 Torx
head stripped out, not ot mention some didn't seat the driver all the way to
the bottom of the plug before they applied pressure to unscrew it. The whole idea
is to tighten the plug so it won't leak or back out. I usually use less torque
and it is secured on top of the torque with safety wire. I have never had
one loosen in all my years. Try a little less torque it will work just fine.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425413#425413
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
RTV stands for "Room Temperature Vulcanizing". Comes in a tube, and has at least
3 colors- blue, red, and black, indicating useful temperature, and whether
or not it cures in the presence of air, or the absence of it. It is designed
to take the place of gaskets, or to skim coat paper ones. Works great, except
on the cork gaskets. You can find it at an auto parts store.
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/25/14, Sacha wrote:
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or
is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
To: "rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2014, 12:40 PM
--> RotaxEngines-List message
posted by: Sacha
Bill
Thank you. I'm not sure what RTV is. I used some red stuff
which I thought was for engine gaskets. I think Motorsil was
the brand. Anyway just to be sure I'll remove it as it
serves no useful purpose.
Sacha
> On Jun 25, 2014, at 15:26, william sullivan
wrote:
>
sullivan
>
> Sacha- Never use any of the RTV sealants with a
cork/rubber gasket. The RTV will cause the gasket to
crumble later on. I think the solvent in the RTV
dissolves the latex.
>
>
Bill Sullivan
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 6/24/14, Sacha
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel
system on suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump
broken?
> To: "rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com"
> Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 3:17 PM
>
> --> RotaxEngines-List message
> posted by: Sacha
>
> Yes indeed. I should have just mounted the sender with
the
> cork gasket that came with it.
>
>>> On Jun 24, 2014, at 19:02, "John Hauck"
>> wrote:
>>
>> Silicone seal/products don't get along well with
> gasoline.
>> They are not fuel resistant and will cause many
fuel
> related
>> problems.
>
>
> RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
>
-Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
RTV stands for "Room Temperature Vulcanizing". Comes in a
tube, and has at least 3 colors- blue, red, and black,
indicating useful temperature, and whether or not it cures
in the presence of air, or the absence of it. It is
designed to take the place of gaskets, or to skim coat paper
ones. Works great, except on the cork gaskets. You can
find it at an auto parts store.
--------------------------------------------
Bill S:
Are all RTV sealants fuel safe?
Are they to be confused with silicone seal?
john h
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
John- I know that one is fuel resistant- red, I think. Pretty sure it's silicone
seal. My experience is very limited, so I only remember some of the cautions
with the stuff. I had a friend who bought a used Cadillac with a freshly
rebuilt motor. The cork oil pan gasket dissolved, and cost him an engine rebuild.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/26/14, John Hauck wrote:
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or
is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 10:10 AM
--> RotaxEngines-List message
posted by: "John Hauck"
RTV stands for "Room Temperature Vulcanizing".
Comes in a
tube, and has at least 3 colors- blue, red, and black,
indicating useful temperature, and whether or not it cures
in the presence of air, or the absence of it. It is
designed to take the place of gaskets, or to skim coat
paper
ones. Works great, except on the cork gaskets.
You can
find it at an auto parts store.
--------------------------------------------
Bill S:
Are all RTV sealants fuel safe?
Are they to be confused with silicone seal?
john h
Rock House, Oregon
RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
John- I know that one is fuel resistant- red, I think.
Pretty sure it's silicone seal. My experience is very
limited, so I only remember some of the cautions with the
stuff. I had a friend who bought a used Cadillac with a
freshly rebuilt motor. The cork oil pan gasket dissolved,
and cost him an engine rebuild.
--------------------------------------------
Bill S:
Back in 1987, silicone seal caused a low power situation
that put me into the Sebring High School football field.
Had used silicone seal to seal the vent hole in the Ken
Brock seat tank filler cap so I could convert to a vent that
exited the bottom of the aircraft and prevent fuel from
dumping inboard should I go upside down on the ground again.
Tiny balls of silicone seal effectively blocked the valves
in the squeeze bulbs we used to use back then.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
I seem to remember that silicone seal (RTV) was being used at automotive factories
to replace a lot of gaskets, some time in the 1980's. Worked great for
differential covers, etc. The biggest problem I ran into was that we weren't
sure where, or what type, to use. Best bet is to bring your glasses to the
auto parts store and read all that very tiny print on the packages. Where I worked,
the most common type was blue- we called it "Blue Goo". Stunk like hell,
and hardened in the tube if it sat around for a while. Maybe Roger or somebody
with a lot more practical knowledge can chime in on this. I was in truck
equipment, not automotive.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/26/14, John Hauck wrote:
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side - or
is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 11:28 AM
--> RotaxEngines-List message
posted by: "John Hauck"
John- I know that one is fuel resistant- red, I
think.
Pretty sure it's silicone seal. My experience is very
limited, so I only remember some of the cautions with the
stuff. I had a friend who bought a used Cadillac with
a
freshly rebuilt motor. The cork oil pan gasket
dissolved,
and cost him an engine rebuild.
--------------------------------------------
Bill S:
Back in 1987, silicone seal caused a low power situation
that put me into the Sebring High School football field.
Had used silicone seal to seal the vent hole in the Ken
Brock seat tank filler cap so I could convert to a vent
that
exited the bottom of the aircraft and prevent fuel from
dumping inboard should I go upside down on the ground
again.
Tiny balls of silicone seal effectively blocked the valves
in the squeeze bulbs we used to use back then.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, OR
RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket
material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.
Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the
header tank. (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the
fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any
goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the
engine).
Are there any in-line filters that are NOT recommended? I've heard that
plastic in-line filters are not advisable. Metal sounds safe, but is not
easily inspectable. Glass doesn't sound so safe. What are folks using?
ACS has a couple of different options but none (except the most expensive
one "Micron 10") come with fuel flow and pressure drop specs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
This <http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230102/overview/>is similar
to what I use, except it's between the header and engine. It's huge and
I don't think it could ever reasonably clog. I don't filter into the
header tank if you except the finger filters
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fingstrainers.php?clickkey=18612>
in the tank outlets to keep out the big chunks.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 6/27/2014 6:14 AM, Sacha wrote:
>
> After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket
> material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.
>
> Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the
> header tank. (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the
> fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any
> goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the
> engine).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
| From: | Vance Simons <vancesimons(at)gmail.com> |
Purolator Proline glass filter with plastic screen filter. You can get them
at most any auto store. I install them in line and once screwed together I
safety wire across it to keep from spinning apart. I never used any filter
with a paper type filter or ones I cant see through to inspect. Here is a
picture of the filter.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dellortoshop.com%2Fc
ontents%2Fmedia%2Fpro896_sytec_in_line_fuel_filter_element_replacement_ds.j
pg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dellortoshop.com%2Fcontents%2Fen-us%2Fd31_D
ellorto_SH1_and_SH2_Parts_Shop.html&h=300&w=249&tbnid=CKnixi_WQ9eHbM%
3A&zoom=1&q=pro-line%20fuel%20filters&docid=lT0-I-ZbpjTqcM&ei=D8KtU
9b7HomhyASenoDgAw&tbm=isch&ved=0CCYQMygJMAk&iact=rc&uact=3&page=2
&start=6&ndsp=6
Vance
After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket
material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.
Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the
header tank. (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the
fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any
goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the
engine).
Are there any in-line filters that are NOT recommended? I've heard that
plastic in-line filters are not advisable. Metal sounds safe, but is not
easily inspectable. Glass doesn't sound so safe. What are folks using?
ACS has a couple of different options but none (except the most expensive
one "Micron 10") come with fuel flow and pressure drop specs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
| From: | Vance Simons <vancesimons(at)gmail.com> |
I have used these on three differ airplanes and never had a problem with
them. Easy to inspect and easy to change filters in.
Vance
On Jun 27, 2014 6:19 AM, "Sacha" wrote:
>
> After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket
> material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.
>
> Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the
> header tank. (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the
> fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any
> goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the
> engine).
>
> Are there any in-line filters that are NOT recommended? I've heard that
> plastic in-line filters are not advisable. Metal sounds safe, but is not
> easily inspectable. Glass doesn't sound so safe. What are folks using?
> ACS has a couple of different options but none (except the most expensive
> one "Micron 10") come with fuel flow and pressure drop specs.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
The glass tube can be replaced with a 7/8" OD .058" 6061 tube of the
same length. I have been using that set up since the first one I bought
developed a crack in the glass the first night I had it installed.
Never had a problem with aluminum. Easy to inspect by simply
disassembling.
john h
Kolb MKIII - 3,280.0 hours
Titus, Alabama
I have used these on three differ airplanes and never had a problem with
them. Easy to inspect and easy to change filters in.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
Ok so I got rid of all the silicone sealant and cleaned the cork gasket which seals
the VDO sender (it's quite a big gasket with a 40mm diameter hole in the
centre and five 5mm holes for the screws around the perimeter).
Well guess what? The cork seal leaks badly. So I'm back to square one, I need to
find a way to seal the VDO sender on the top of my header tank. I have some
silicone rubber which I thought of cutting to size and using. What do folks think?
Another solution would be to use the same red silicone sealant as I used before
but only to apply it on the exterior of the tank. I'm concerned it might eat
into the cork though as someone (John?) mentioned.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
Folks,
Thanks a lot for all the suggestions regarding filters.
Guy, regarding the finger filters, do you happen have a picture of how they are
installed? My wing tanks have no strainers to remove water in the fuel but it's
something I've been wanting to install.
Sacha
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
I would definitely keep silicon sealant away from any fuel
system.
Your silicone coated cork gasket is trash. Silicone seal
causes the gasket to squeeze out and leak.
You can get several fuel tank sealant cartridges from
Aircraft Spruce that work well. Also cut your own gasket.
john h
Kolb MKIII
Boise, Idaho
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on
suction side - or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
Ok so I got rid of all the silicone sealant and cleaned the
cork gasket which seals the VDO sender (it's quite a big
gasket with a 40mm diameter hole in the centre and five 5mm
holes for the screws around the perimeter).
Well guess what? The cork seal leaks badly. So I'm back to
square one, I need to find a way to seal the VDO sender on
the top of my header tank. I have some silicone rubber which
I thought of cutting to size and using. What do folks think?
Another solution would be to use the same red silicone
sealant as I used before but only to apply it on the
exterior of the tank. I'm concerned it might eat into the
cork though as someone (John?) mentioned.
=
Photoshare, and much much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Get a new gasket. The buy some Hylomar. This is meant to be used around fuel and
will not leak. Do not over use it. I little thin film on each surface will seal
just fine.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425695#425695
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Vance, As far as I can tell from their website, Purolator no longer makes
the Proline filter or the Clearview filter that preceded it.
You can find a version of the filter at auto parts stores under the Mr.
Gasket brand. You have to be really careful as they market two kinds and
the quality difference between them is dramatic. You can tell them apart by
the center section that threads into the ends. The cheapos, that I wouldn't
put on ANYTHING, much less an aircraft, has a flat molded piece about 1/8"
thick in the center. It has no way to seal the filter element and on some
the threads are so poorly molded that the ends are not held parallel so the
seals are very unevenly compressed against the glass body of the filter.
This model usually comes with plastic barbed fittings to accommodate three
sizes of fuel line. The chrome plating on the ends usually has so much
build up on the thread that you cannot substitute aluminum or brass barbed
fittings for the plastic.
The better quality version has a round center section and a jam nut to seal
the filter. They also have one piece ends that have the barbed fitting as a
unit. Unfortunately they are only available in 5/16" and 3/8" sizes.
Bottom line, any Clearview style filter from the auto parts stores has to
be carefully inspected to make sure it is robust enough to be put on an
aircraft. If you cannot tell while it's in the package, ask the counter
person to take it out of the package for you. If they won't do it, go to
another store. Inspecting the filter before buying will save you the hassle
of having to take it back later.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
> Folks,
> Thanks a lot for all the suggestions regarding filters.
> Guy, regarding the finger filters, do you happen have a picture of how
> they are installed? My wing tanks have no strainers to remove water in the
> fuel but it's something I've been wanting to install.
> Sacha
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
No picture. The finger strainers are pipe thread reducers attached to
course mesh finger size screens. The male is threaded into the Kitfox's
fiberglass tank, bedded with 2-part polysulfide sealant. (Yes, the
expensive stuff. As an aside for all you other guys debating RTV. I
tried everything in the auto and plumbing store trying to seal 100LL
fittings. The only thing that worked absolutely reliably was the ACS
2-part polysulfide.) I then have a male pipe to barb adapter threaded
into the finger female. Hose attaches to the barb. Very straight-forward
if you can use pipe threads in your tank.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 6/28/2014 3:07 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
> Folks,
> Thanks a lot for all the suggestions regarding filters.
> Guy, regarding the finger filters, do you happen have a picture of how they are
installed? My wing tanks have no strainers to remove water in the fuel but
it's something I've been wanting to install.
> Sacha
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New to Carb Synch in 912. Should Carbs behave the same |
at all rpms?
| From: | Godo Barrenechea <godobcn(at)gmail.com> |
Hi,
After attending a couple of seminars and watching the videos, I felt I
could run my firts Carb Synch...
I followed the manual and run first the mechanical adjustment followed by
the pneumatic ones at 3000 rpm. All good here.
Issue came when, out of curiosity, I wanted to check if carbs would be
balanced also at the high rpms when I would be flying, so I started
adjusting, not for 3000 as per the manual, but playing up and down.
The thing is that, no matter which rpm I would synchronise for, the results
would not be the same all way in the rest of the rpm, so I started to
believe that I had a different behaviour in the carbs. I asked the shop
that does usually my maintenance and both carbs were cleaned and needles
changed 10 h ago.
So here I am, doubting if my readings are wrong, If I need to check again
carbs or if I'm only good to build airframes, but unable to tune engines...
For those of you with more experience, any suggestion/comments pls
Thanks in advance
Godo
RV12 in Barcelona, Spain
Last data:
Rigth vs Left Carb mmH reading
4500 rpm +0.5 mm
4000 rpm +0.0 mm
3500 rpm -1.5 mm
3000 rpm -2.5 mm
2500 rpm -2.5 mm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
I was figuratively biting my tongue, hoping this topic would go away withou
t killing anyone but seeing so many responses in the Daily Digest I decided
to add my two cents.- Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on this
topic as fuel filters and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a pet p
eeve of mine.=0A=0ABased on standard aircraft design, there should be a coa
rse finger screen on the outlet of each tank, this is filter number one whi
ch keeps large chunks of debris from entering the fuel delivery system.-
Each tank should have a sediment drain to check for and eliminate debris an
d water which can accumulate in the tank.- At the lowest point in the fue
l system there needs to be another sediment drain as this is also where wat
er can accumulate.- A properly designed gascolator should be installed in
the system, often at the lowest point in lieu of a low point drain.- The
gascolator should be the type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a f
airly fine mesh screen in the top which acts as filter number two.- Final
ly, the fuel pumps used on Rotax engines have a fine mesh screen in them (a
ccording to Phil Lockwood) which acts as a final filter before the fuel ent
ers the carburetors.- If particulate can get through these three filters,
then it will go
through the engine without hurting anything.=0A=0A=0ASo essentially, a pro
perly designed fuel system has three stages of filtration.- Why would you
want to add another level of filtration to your fuel system?- =0A=0A=0AI
n his talk on 912 maintenance, Phil Lockwood tells an entertaining story ab
out getting a bad batch of fuel in his older carburated car.- The fuel ha
d some kind of very fine particulate suspended in it which plugged his fuel
filter and made for very poor performance, eventually killing the engine.
- Phil replaced the fuel filter and the new one plugged again within a fe
w minutes as he still had the bad fuel in his fuel tank.- Since he was in
the middle of nowhere and did not have another fuel filter, Phil removed t
he fuel filter all together until he reached his destination and the car ra
n fine for the remainder of the trip.- As long as the particulate is smal
l enough to not plug the carburetor jets, it is not going to hurt anything
in the engine.- However, if a fine particulate accumulates on a too fine
of filtration media, the particulate could interrupt fuel flow to the engin
e.=0A=0AFuel systems in homebuilts/ultralights/LSAs are one place where we
need to pay close attention to what has been done in the certified world.
- Adding components into the fuel system where they should not be can be
dangerous and should be done only with extreme caution. If your aircraft fu
el system is not set up according to standard design, that should be your g
oal, not adding fuel filters for the sake of =0Aadding fuel filters.- Of
course, fuel injection systems like that on the 912iS is another issue but
I am not experienced with the iS installation so cannot comment on its filt
ration requirements.=0A=0A=0AThere, I will get down off my soapbox.- I ho
pe I have given you guys something to think about without coming across as
too preachy.=0A=0ADoug M=0ACH-701, Rotax 912UL- =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
................and don't forget the thimble filter in the electric Pierburg
fuel pumps x 2 on the 914 engine.
Regards
Bob Harrison Europa /Rotax 914
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MacDonald
Doug
Sent: 29 June 2014 14:08
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?
I was figuratively biting my tongue, hoping this topic would go away without
killing anyone but seeing so many responses in the Daily Digest I decided to
add my two cents. Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on this topic
as fuel filters and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a pet peeve of
mine.
Based on standard aircraft design, there should be a coarse finger screen on
the outlet of each tank, this is filter number one which keeps large chunks
of debris from entering the fuel delivery system. Each tank should have a
sediment drain to check for and eliminate debris and water which can
accumulate in the tank. At the lowest point in the fuel system there needs
to be another sediment drain as this is also where water can accumulate. A
properly designed gascolator should be installed in the system, often at the
lowest point in lieu of a low point drain. The gascolator should be the
type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a fairly fine mesh screen in
the top which acts as filter number two. Finally, the fuel pumps used on
Rotax engines have a fine mesh screen in them (according to Phil Lockwood)
which acts as a final filter before the fuel enters the carburetors. If
particulate can get through these three filters, then it will go through the
engine without hurting anything.
So essentially, a properly designed fuel system has three stages of
filtration. Why would you want to add another level of filtration to your
fuel system?
In his talk on 912 maintenance, Phil Lockwood tells an entertaining story
about getting a bad batch of fuel in his older carburated car. The fuel had
some kind of very fine particulate suspended in it which plugged his fuel
filter and made for very poor performance, eventually killing the engine.
Phil replaced the fuel filter and the new one plugged again within a few
minutes as he still had the bad fuel in his fuel tank. Since he was in the
middle of nowhere and did not have another fuel filter, Phil removed the
fuel filter all together until he reached his destination and the car ran
fine for the remainder of the trip. As long as the particulate is small
enough to not plug the carburetor jets, it is not going to hurt anything in
the engine. However, if a fine particulate accumulates on a too fine of
filtration media, the particulate could interrupt fuel flow to the engine.
Fuel systems in homebuilts/ultralights/LSAs are one place where we need to
pay close attention to what has been done in the certified world. Adding
components into the fuel system where they should not be can be dangerous
and should be done only with extreme caution. If your aircraft fuel system
is not set up according to standard design, that should be your goal, not
adding fuel filters for the sake of adding fuel filters. Of course, fuel
injection systems like that on the 912iS is another issue but I am not
experienced with the iS installation so cannot comment on its filtration
requirements.
There, I will get down off my soapbox. I hope I have given you guys
something to think about without coming across as too preachy.
Doug M
CH-701, Rotax 912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on suction side - or is |
my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
I recommend you use HYLOMAR sealant made in the USA under licence and
developed by Rolls Royce Aero Engines for all fuel and oil related joints.
But use it very sparingly and especially as mentioned on the instructions.
I would never make any oil or fuel related joint without it.
Regards
Bob Harrison Rolls Royce Aero Engine trained .Europa G-PTAG Rotax 914
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hauck
Sent: 28 June 2014 23:11
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side -
or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
-->
I would definitely keep silicon sealant away from any fuel system.
Your silicone coated cork gasket is trash. Silicone seal causes the gasket
to squeeze out and leak.
You can get several fuel tank sealant cartridges from Aircraft Spruce that
work well. Also cut your own gasket.
john h
Kolb MKIII
Boise, Idaho
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side -
or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
Ok so I got rid of all the silicone sealant and cleaned the cork gasket
which seals the VDO sender (it's quite a big gasket with a 40mm diameter
hole in the centre and five 5mm holes for the screws around the perimeter).
Well guess what? The cork seal leaks badly. So I'm back to square one, I
need to find a way to seal the VDO sender on the top of my header tank. I
have some silicone rubber which I thought of cutting to size and using. What
do folks think?
Another solution would be to use the same red silicone sealant as I used
before but only to apply it on the exterior of the tank. I'm concerned it
might eat into the cork though as someone (John?) mentioned.
=
Photoshare, and much much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
| From: | Don Hudgeon <don(at)hudgeon.com> |
I fly a kitfox 912 ul and have the exact fuel system you describe.
in 400 hours never had a problem.
take care
Don
On Jun 29, 2014 6:14 AM, "MacDonald Doug" wrote:
> I was figuratively biting my tongue, hoping this topic would go away
> without killing anyone but seeing so many responses in the Daily Digest I
> decided to add my two cents. Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on
> this topic as fuel filters and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a
> pet peeve of mine.
>
> Based on standard aircraft design, there should be a coarse finger screen
> on the outlet of each tank, this is filter number one which keeps large
> chunks of debris from entering the fuel delivery system. Each tank should
> have a sediment drain to check for and eliminate debris and water which can
> accumulate in the tank. At the lowest point in the fuel system there needs
> to be another sediment drain as this is also where water can accumulate. A
> properly designed gascolator should be installed in the system, often at
> the lowest point in lieu of a low point drain. The gascolator should be
> the type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a fairly fine mesh screen
> in the top which acts as filter number two. Finally, the fuel pumps used
> on Rotax engines have a fine mesh screen in them (according to Phil
> Lockwood) which acts as a final filter before the fuel enters the
> carburetors. If particulate can get through these three filters, then it
> will go through the engine without hurting anything.
>
> So essentially, a properly designed fuel system has three stages of
> filtration. Why would you want to add another level of filtration to your
> fuel system?
>
> In his talk on 912 maintenance, Phil Lockwood tells an entertaining story
> about getting a bad batch of fuel in his older carburated car. The fuel
> had some kind of very fine particulate suspended in it which plugged his
> fuel filter and made for very poor performance, eventually killing the
> engine. Phil replaced the fuel filter and the new one plugged again within
> a few minutes as he still had the bad fuel in his fuel tank. Since he was
> in the middle of nowhere and did not have another fuel filter, Phil removed
> the fuel filter all together until he reached his destination and the car
> ran fine for the remainder of the trip. As long as the particulate is
> small enough to not plug the carburetor jets, it is not going to hurt
> anything in the engine. However, if a fine particulate accumulates on a
> too fine of filtration media, the particulate could interrupt fuel flow to
> the engine.
>
> Fuel systems in homebuilts/ultralights/LSAs are one place where we need to
> pay close attention to what has been done in the certified world. Adding
> components into the fuel system where they should not be can be dangerous
> and should be done only with extreme caution. If your aircraft fuel system
> is not set up according to standard design, that should be your goal, not
> adding fuel filters for the sake of adding fuel filters. Of course, fuel
> injection systems like that on the 912iS is another issue but I am not
> experienced with the iS installation so cannot comment on its filtration
> requirements.
>
> There, I will get down off my soapbox. I hope I have given you guys
> something to think about without coming across as too preachy.
>
> Doug M
> CH-701, Rotax 912UL
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What is this cheesy material in my oil cooler? |
| From: | "CharlieTango" <ed.cesnalis(at)mammothlakesinsulation.com> |
This CTSW has had high oil temps for the last 6 years. I sent the oil cooler to
Hot Flush and after a bunch of metal this cheesy material started coming loose.
What is it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425840#425840
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cheesy_material_from_oil_cooler_848.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air entering fuel system on suction side - or |
is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Sacha, Take a fresh cork gasket and copy it to sheet stock that is
impervious to gas. McMaster Carr has a chart of materials and uses so you
can find what you need.
>From the directions for use on the red RTV (in black bold letters): "Not
recommended for use on head gaskets or parts in contact with gasoline."
Rick Girard
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Bob Harrison
wrote:
> ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>
>
> I recommend you use HYLOMAR sealant made in the USA under licence and
> developed by Rolls Royce Aero Engines for all fuel and oil related joints.
> But use it very sparingly and especially as mentioned on the instructions.
> I would never make any oil or fuel related joint without it.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison Rolls Royce Aero Engine trained .Europa G-PTAG Rotax 914
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Hauck
> Sent: 28 June 2014 23:11
> To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side -
> or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
>
> -->
>
> I would definitely keep silicon sealant away from any fuel system.
>
> Your silicone coated cork gasket is trash. Silicone seal causes the gasket
> to squeeze out and leak.
>
> You can get several fuel tank sealant cartridges from Aircraft Spruce that
> work well. Also cut your own gasket.
>
> john h
> Kolb MKIII
> Boise, Idaho
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 3:38 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: air entering fuel system on suction side -
> or is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
>
>
>
> Ok so I got rid of all the silicone sealant and cleaned the cork gasket
> which seals the VDO sender (it's quite a big gasket with a 40mm diameter
> hole in the centre and five 5mm holes for the screws around the perimeter).
>
> Well guess what? The cork seal leaks badly. So I'm back to square one, I
> need to find a way to seal the VDO sender on the top of my header tank. I
> have some silicone rubber which I thought of cutting to size and using.
> What
> do folks think?
>
> Another solution would be to use the same red silicone sealant as I used
> before but only to apply it on the exterior of the tank. I'm concerned it
> might eat into the cork though as someone (John?) mentioned.
>
> =
> Photoshare, and much much more:
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> =
> =
> =
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this cheesy material in my oil cooler? |
I have no idea what it is, but save it and weigh it on a fine scale- like a reloading
scale. Then when you find out what it is, you can weigh the new part and
find out how much might still be in there. I once had some red plastic like
that clog up a hydraulic system. It turned out to be part of a sight indicator
on the oil filter. It had cracked, and somebody pushed the red indicator
back into the hole, and screwed a plug in on top of it. The pump chewed it up,
and it jammed the hydraulic system valves. We kept cleaning the system, saving
parts and weighing them, and comparing against a new part.
Bill Sullivan
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 7/1/14, CharlieTango wrote:
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: What is this cheesy material in my oil cooler?
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2014, 11:12 AM
--> RotaxEngines-List message
posted by: "CharlieTango"
This CTSW has had high oil temps for the last 6 years.
I sent the oil cooler to Hot Flush and after a bunch of
metal this cheesy material started coming loose.
What is it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425840#425840
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cheesy_material_from_oil_cooler_848.jpg
RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | air entering fuel system on suction side - or |
is my Pierburg electrical pump broken?
Rick, Bob and John,
Thanks for the tips I got it, silicone and gasoline
don=99t mix!
McMaster Carr what a great website, wish we had such a thing in
Europe! Turns out I=99m heading to the US tomorrow so I might
stock up on a few things.
Sacha
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New to Carb Synch in 912. Should Carbs behave |
the same at all rpms?
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Gordo, You will see some variation at different RPM's than what you used to
set the two carbs due to things like airflow differences between the two
carbs, manifolds, heads, valve flows, even the amount of oil on the air
filters. You can drive yourself crazy trying to chase it down (been there,
done that. I once swapped air cleaners after I had balanced the carbs as
close as my nice liquid filled gauges would allow, and the carbs were out
of balance by over 1" of vacuum. It's a wonder I have any hair left. :-} I
did briefly think about making a dedicated flow bench for testing air
cleaners after they had been cleaned and re-oiled. Thank goodness the urge
passed).
Fortunately Rotax put a balance tube the two manifolds. That damps out the
small differences once everything is set. If you were to connect to the
carb vacuum ports after the balance tube is reconnected you would not be
able to find those minor differences.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Godo Barrenechea wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After attending a couple of seminars and watching the videos, I felt I
> could run my firts Carb Synch...
>
> I followed the manual and run first the mechanical adjustment followed by
> the pneumatic ones at 3000 rpm. All good here.
>
> Issue came when, out of curiosity, I wanted to check if carbs would be
> balanced also at the high rpms when I would be flying, so I started
> adjusting, not for 3000 as per the manual, but playing up and down.
>
> The thing is that, no matter which rpm I would synchronise for, the
> results would not be the same all way in the rest of the rpm, so I started
> to believe that I had a different behaviour in the carbs. I asked the shop
> that does usually my maintenance and both carbs were cleaned and needles
> changed 10 h ago.
>
> So here I am, doubting if my readings are wrong, If I need to check again
> carbs or if I'm only good to build airframes, but unable to tune engines...
>
> For those of you with more experience, any suggestion/comments pls
>
> Thanks in advance
> Godo
> RV12 in Barcelona, Spain
>
> Last data:
>
> Rigth vs Left Carb mmH reading
> 4500 rpm +0.5 mm
> 4000 rpm +0.0 mm
> 3500 rpm -1.5 mm
> 3000 rpm -2.5 mm
> 2500 rpm -2.5 mm
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on this topic as fuel filters
and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
Not at all, I=99m here to learn and constructive comments are
always welcome.
Based on standard aircraft design, there should be
1) a coarse finger screen on the outlet of each tank, this is filter
number one which keeps large chunks of debris from entering the fuel
delivery system.
2) Each tank should have a sediment drain to check for and eliminate
debris and water which can accumulate in the tank.
3) At the lowest point in the fuel system there needs to be another
sediment drain as this is also where water can accumulate. A properly
designed gascolator should be installed in the system, often at the
lowest point in lieu of a low point drain. The gascolator should be the
type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a fairly fine mesh screen
in the top which acts as filter number two.
4) Finally, the fuel pumps used on Rotax engines have a fine mesh
screen in them (according to Phil Lockwood) which acts as a final filter
before the fuel enters the carburetors. If particulate can get through
these three filters, then it will go through the engine without hurting
anything.
So essentially, a properly designed fuel system has three stages of
filtration. Why would you want to add another level of filtration to
your fuel system?
I have 3 and 4 and suppose I wanted to install 1 (finger screens) and 2
(tank drain). My wing tanks are made of epoxy resin that=99s a
few mm thick. How would you go about installing such fittings? I
managed in the past to install a tank vent by threading a hole in the
wing tank and screwing in a =C2=BC=9D NPT hose barb, with a
counter-nut on the inside of the tank. But what if installing a
counter-nut is not feasible? Are there any alternative methods? What
kind of glue/sealant should be used? Would one use Alum Flange
Fittings? I have zero experience in these matters and need some
guidance as to best practice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
If yours is like mine the tank exit is buried in the lower aft corner of
the tank. This makes it very difficult to secondarily reinforce, since
it's hard to get enough bond area for the reinforcement. Best would be
to adhere a tapered 1/4" thick G-10 tapping plate where you want the
exit, then cover that with about 10 plies of 8oz fiberglass, tapering or
sequencing so that the edges taper. This would give you a little less
than 1/2" to tap into for the NPT finger strainers. (If you want to just
glue a tapping plate externally, you'll have to extend well onto the
tank sidewall to get enough adherence area to enable you do drill and
tap the plate. Unfortunately the drilling and/or tapping process usually
pries the tapping plate off the tank anyway. Been there...)
Bulkhead fittings usually make you move well away from the edge/corner
of the tank, making you loose capacity. Unfortunately, in this case I
can't think of an easy solution.
As to sealant, again I would use ACS 2-part polysulfide.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 7/1/2014 4:41 PM, Sacha wrote:
> But what if installing a counter-nut is not feasible? Are there any
> alternative methods? What kind of glue/sealant should be used? Would
> one use Alum Flange Fittings? I have zero experience in these
> matters and need some guidance as to best practice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this cheesy material in my oil cooler? |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Did you know that many drones are powered by a Rotax engine?
On Tuesday, July 1, 2014, william sullivan wrote:
> williamtsullivan(at)att.net >
>
> I have no idea what it is, but save it and weigh it on a fine scale-
> like a reloading scale. Then when you find out what it is, you can weigh
> the new part and find out how much might still be in there. I once had
> some red plastic like that clog up a hydraulic system. It turned out to be
> part of a sight indicator on the oil filter. It had cracked, and somebody
> pushed the red indicator back into the hole, and screwed a plug in on top
> of it. The pump chewed it up, and it jammed the hydraulic system valves.
> We kept cleaning the system, saving parts and weighing them, and comparing
> against a new part.
>
> Bill Sullivan
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 7/1/14, CharlieTango > wrote:
>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: What is this cheesy material in my oil cooler?
> To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2014, 11:12 AM
>
> --> RotaxEngines-List message
> posted by: "CharlieTango" >
>
> This CTSW has had high oil temps for the last 6 years.
> I sent the oil cooler to Hot Flush and after a bunch of
> metal this cheesy material started coming loose.
>
> What is it?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425840#425840
>
>
> Attachments:
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/cheesy_material_from_oil_cooler_848.jpg
>
>
> RotaxEngines-List Email Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | "Mike M" <mjwings(at)msn.com> |
I recently landed at a remote dry lake in my RV-4 with a Lycoming engine. When
I attempted to start, my starter would not engage. Luckily I was able to hand
prop the engine to get it started. If a similar situation occurred with my
ROTAX 912 ULS powered RANS, would I be able to hand prop to get the engine started?
--------
Mike Marker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426401#426401
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
It isn't supposed to be done and can get you hurt. I did see a video once where
someone pulled it off, but that was a rare exception. This is not a Lycoming
or Conti. with a low compression ratio and loose tolerances with mags.
We have almost 11:1 compression and a CDI ignition which requires the engine to
rotate at a certain speed to cause the trigger coils to fire enough energy to
cause a spark and then we hope that compression doesn't kickback and break our
hand.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426402#426402
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
Hi I Mike
Never done it myself but there is a guy on YouTube who has hand propped a 91
2....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JUBrHYsh4E
Sacha
> On 9 Jul 2014, at 18:43, "Mike M" wrote:
>
>
> I recently landed at a remote dry lake in my RV-4 with a Lycoming engine.
When I attempted to start, my starter would not engage. Luckily I was able
to hand prop the engine to get it started. If a similar situation occurred
with my ROTAX 912 ULS powered RANS, would I be able to hand prop to get the
engine started?
>
> --------
> Mike Marker
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426401#426401
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
Mike M/Folks:
Prior to my first flight to Alaska in 1994, I hand propped
my 912 80 HP. There wasn't a 912UL designation in 1994. I
hand propped the 912 once to insure I could if the need
arose when I was on the ground in a remote location.
Biggest problem hand propping was the Warp Drive Prop with
very thin, sharp blade edges. A major consideration hand
propping the 912 when alone in a remote location was the
possibility of injury. Was the gamble of injury worth
getting the 912 started, or wait until someone came along
with jumper cables.
My current engine, a 912ULS, has never been hand propped and
I do not intend to attempt it. The increased compression
ratio would make it difficult to hand prop, especially
equipped with the Warp Drive. Not worth the chance of
getting injured. If it was a life or death situation, I
might give it a try. Gloves would help to pull the prop
through.
john h
Kolb MKIII
White Sulphur Springs, Montana
**************************************
I recently landed at a remote dry lake in my RV-4 with a
Lycoming engine. When I attempted to start, my starter
would not engage. Luckily I was able to hand prop the
engine to get it started. If a similar situation occurred
with my ROTAX 912 ULS powered RANS, would I be able to hand
prop to get the engine started?
--------
Mike Marker
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | "Mike M" <mjwings(at)msn.com> |
Thanks for the good info on hand starting issues for the 912S...high compression,
potential kick back, and thin prop blades and achieving sufficient RPM to for
the ignition system to spark.
I can foresee a situation where a battery dies or starter system fails at a remote
landing site, which would result in a long walk out of 10- 20 miles. In this
case I would be like to have the option to attempt a hand start. It would
be good to know that it is at least possible to hand start the 912S based on the
knowledge that someone out there in the ROTAX world has successfully done it.
--------
Mike Marker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426417#426417
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us |
Hi Group
FWIW I took a bike ride by the model flying field a few weeks ago and
took a look at a 3 cell 1300mA Lithium Polymer pack.
It was a Thunder something or other (Thunder Power?). Anyway it was about
a third the size of a pack of cigarettes and said it could output
80C!
The guy said folks have gotten stuck with their cars and used them to get
going again.
If you are not charging and discharging a battery in flight I think the
chance of a battery getting all hot and bothered are pretty remote.
That's not the case after you just started your plane with it though,
so careful monitoring for a few minutes is prudent.
I believe the self discharge rate is not too bad on LiPos. We know you
are going to get a substantial voltage drop, so it would be worth someone
considering this option to try a 3 cell pack, perhaps even a 4 cell
pack.
I have a NiMh total loss pack for my 914. It can a fuel pump, in an
emergency can probably get me started too:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87439
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
There are now lithium ion packs that are smaller than a paperback that can
start your car. Here is a link to a review of three of them:
http://www.cnet.com/news/pocket-sized-jump-starters/
-- Craig
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 4:56 AM, wrote:
> Hi Group
>
> FWIW I took a bike ride by the model flying field a few weeks ago and took
> a look at a 3 cell 1300mA Lithium Polymer pack.
>
> It was a Thunder something or other (Thunder Power?). Anyway it was about
> a third the size of a pack of cigarettes and said it could output 80C!
>
> The guy said folks have gotten stuck with their cars and used them to get
> going again.
>
> If you are not charging and discharging a battery in flight I think the
> chance of a battery getting all hot and bothered are pretty remote. That's
> not the case after you just started your plane with it though, so careful
> monitoring for a few minutes is prudent.
>
> I believe the self discharge rate is not too bad on LiPos. We know you are
> going to get a substantial voltage drop, so it would be worth someone
> considering this option to try a 3 cell pack, perhaps even a 4 cell pack.
>
> I have a NiMh total loss pack for my 914. It can a fuel pump, in an
> emergency can probably get me started too:
>
> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87439
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Good question Mike!
Let's see...
Which prop do you have?
Two blade or Three blade?
With a three blade your chances of getting hit with the following blade are
66.6% higher than with a two blade.
The gearbox is a reduction in RPM from the engine to the prop. So,
reversing the gear reduction the engine should turn Faster than the prop
increasing your chances of starting... As long as you have the strength to
swing the prop.
What kind of ignition system do you have? Things like vacuum advancing
decrease your chances of hand propping because a higher Engine RPM is
required for starting.
If you have a RANS Pusher, I would think you would be in deep yogurt!
If a tractor, yea, you do stand a better chance. Not great, but better.
Anyone out ther with success in this area. Anyone that is still in one
piece?
Barry
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014, Mike M wrote:
> >
>
> I recently landed at a remote dry lake in my RV-4 with a Lycoming engine.
> When I attempted to start, my starter would not engage. Luckily I was
> able to hand prop the engine to get it started. If a similar situation
> occurred with my ROTAX 912 ULS powered RANS, would I be able to hand prop
> to get the engine started?
>
> --------
> Mike Marker
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426401#426401
>
>
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | Gale Derosier <kgderosier(at)gmail.com> |
I think typically you have to have the engine turning at 300 rpm or greater
for the engine to even start. That's why when you try and start on a dead
battery or a low battery may result in no start.
On Jul 10, 2014 6:46 PM, "FLYaDIVE" wrote:
> Good question Mike!
>
> Let's see...
> Which prop do you have?
> Two blade or Three blade?
> With a three blade your chances of getting hit with the following blade
> are 66.6% higher than with a two blade.
> The gearbox is a reduction in RPM from the engine to the prop. So,
> reversing the gear reduction the engine should turn Faster than the prop
> increasing your chances of starting... As long as you have the strength to
> swing the prop.
> What kind of ignition system do you have? Things like vacuum advancing
> decrease your chances of hand propping because a higher Engine RPM is
> required for starting.
> If you have a RANS Pusher, I would think you would be in deep yogurt!
> If a tractor, yea, you do stand a better chance. Not great, but better.
>
> Anyone out ther with success in this area. Anyone that is still in one
> piece?
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2014, Mike M wrote:
>
>>
>> I recently landed at a remote dry lake in my RV-4 with a Lycoming engine.
>> When I attempted to start, my starter would not engage. Luckily I was
>> able to hand prop the engine to get it started. If a similar situation
>> occurred with my ROTAX 912 ULS powered RANS, would I be able to hand prop
>> to get the engine started?
>>
>> --------
>> Mike Marker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426401#426401
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com> |
No way can you spin a 912S fast enough by hand to start it.
I've seen one of these pocket-sized jump starters in action, and it's truly
amazing!
Definitely the way to go.
*http://www.cnet.com/news/pocket-sized-jump-starters/
<http://www.cnet.com/news/pocket-sized-jump-starters/>*
*JG*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can the 912ULS be hand started? |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
I agree with everyone else post. Forget about hand propping as a back up. It most
likely will never happen so I wouldn't even put it in my mental toolbox.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426539#426539
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Guy
What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to the out
side of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesive. Wou
ld it work?
Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then screw t
he finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
Sacha
> On Jul 2, 2014, at 2:35, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> If yours is like mine the tank exit is buried in the lower aft corner of t
he tank. This makes it very difficult to secondarily reinforce, since it's h
ard to get enough bond area for the reinforcement. Best would be to adhere a
tapered 1/4" thick G-10 tapping plate where you want the exit, then cover t
hat with about 10 plies of 8oz fiberglass, tapering or sequencing so that th
e edges taper. This would give you a little less than 1/2" to tap into
for the NPT finger strainers. (If you want to just glue a tapping plate ext
ernally, you'll have to extend well onto the tank sidewall to get enough adh
erence area to enable you do drill and tap the plate. Unfortunately the dril
ling and/or tapping process usually pries the tapping plate off the tank any
way. Been there...)
>
> Bulkhead fittings usually make you move well away from the edge/corner of t
he tank, making you loose capacity. Unfortunately, in this case I can't thin
k of an easy solution.
>
> As to sealant, again I would use ACS 2-part polysulfide.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
>
>> On 7/1/2014 4:41 PM, Sacha wrote:
>> But what if installing a counter-nut is not feasible? Are there any alte
rnative methods? What kind of glue/sealant should be used? Would one use A
lum Flange Fittings? I have zero experience in these matters and need some
guidance as to best practice.
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
First, I would regap plugs to .025.
Second, double check that spark plug wires are on the correct cylinders.
If the engine was running normally before you changed plugs, then the
problem is something that was changed by you during the plug
replacement.
john h
mkIII
Thermopolis, WY
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh
McKay
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:08 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk> |
Hi Hugh,
I would start by being really, really sure that you have the plug leads
on the correct plugs.
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh
McKay
Sent: 17 July 2014 14:08
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Max Cointe (Free)" <mcointe(at)free.fr> |
It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on
my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very
surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could
still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) if someone
didn=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on
cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags
and almost a shut down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or
=9Cmag2=9D.
So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for
you, no shame!)
Max Cointe
mcointe(at)free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Hugh
McKay
Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
=C3 : Rotax Engines
Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked
again today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number
marked on each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from
the factory showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is
correct. If the wires are connected correct, what would be my next step
in finding the problem?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Max Cointe (Free)
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on
my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very
surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could
still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C2 if someone
didn=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on
cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags
and almost a shut down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or
=9Cmag2=9D.
So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for
you, no shame!)
Max=C2 Cointe
mcointe(at)free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Hugh
McKay
Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
=C3 : Rotax Engines
Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty
and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost
wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to be
correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the plugs
themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the plugs.
Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the old plugs,
install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat transfer compound
on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug
caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them
to begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem
and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated
is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to
remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection
inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I check the individual
plug wires for the proper resistance since one end of each wire is
connected to the solid state ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax
Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction compound can lead to
ignition problems and the spark plug seat and threads in the cylinder
should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat conduction compound.
How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? Remember, I have
done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lyle Peterson <lyleap(at)centurylink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many
new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality control.
On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote:
> When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
> the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked
> again today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number
> marked on each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from
> the factory showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything
> is correct. If the wires are connected correct, what would be my next
> step in finding the problem?
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
> *From:* Max Cointe (Free)
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
> It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance
> (on my MCR 4S). It wasnt the first visit I did and so I was very
> surprised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I
> could still be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) if
> someone didnt came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on
> cylinders 2 and 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags
> and almost a shut down when running on mag 1 or mag2.
>
> So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it
> for you, no shame!)
>
> Max Cointe
>
> mcointe(at)free.fr
>
> F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
>
> Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
>
> F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S
>
> Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
>
> *De :*owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] *De la part de*
> Hugh McKay
> *Envoy :* jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
> * :* Rotax Engines
> *Objet :* RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
> I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
> routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
> without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was
> difficult to start and when it finally did start it ran with
> difficulty and was very very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm
> (almost wanted to jump out of the engine mounts). I stopped the engine
> immediately and rechecked all that I had done. Everything appeared to
> be correct. The wires were connected correctly and were tight on the
> plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before I changed the
> plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, remove the
> old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat
> transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to
> 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight.
>
> Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how
> tight they fit. The caps have to be wiggled some to get them to
> begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely
> for a number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged
> one of the plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition
> problem and the only place where the plug wires have been handled or
> manipulated is at the plug caps where I have to physically pull off
> the caps to remove and replace the plugs. If I have damaged the
> wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I find this out? How do I
> check the individual plug wires for the proper resistance since one
> end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition modules? I
> notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduction
> compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and
> threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the
> heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the
> cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any
> help and or advice would be appreciated.
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Allegro 2000
>
> N661WW
>
> Rotax 912 UL
>
> 671 hours
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
--
Lyle
Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
| From: | Nati Niv <n992dn(at)gmail.com> |
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Lyle Peterson
wrote:
> Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many
> new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality
> control.
>
> On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote:
>
> When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
> the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked agai
n
> today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number marked o
n
> each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from the factory
> showing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is correct. If
> the wires are connected correct, what would be my next step in finding th
e
> problem?
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *From:* Max Cointe (Free)
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
>
> It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (on
> my MCR 4S). It wasn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t the first visit I did and so
I was very surprised
> to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still be
> there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C3=82 if someone didn=C3
=A2=82=AC=84=A2t
> came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 and 4!
> Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut down
> when running on =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93mag 1=C3=A2=82=AC or =C3=A2=82
=AC=C5=93mag2=C3=A2=82=AC .
>
> So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it for
> you, no shame!)
>
>
> Max=C3=82 Cointe
>
> mcointe(at)free.fr
>
> F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
>
> Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
>
>
> F-PLDJ Dyn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2A=C3=83=C2=A9ro MCR 4S
>
> Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
>
>
> *De :* owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *De la part de* Hugh McKa
y
> *Envoy=C3=83=C2=A9 :* jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
> *=C3=83=82=AC :* Rotax Engines
> *Objet :* RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
>
>
> I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I
> routinely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times
> without any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficul
t
> to start and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was ver
y
> very rough especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out
of
> the engine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all th
at
> I had done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected
> correctly and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running
> fine before I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the
> plug caps, remove the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small
> amount of heat transfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030,
> torqued to 177 in.lb, and plug caps reinstalled tight.
>
>
> Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
> they fit. The caps have to be =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93wiggled=C3=A2=82=AC
some to get them to begin to
> release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a number o
f
> times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of the plug
> caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only plac
e
> where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug caps
> where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace the
> plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I
> find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper
> resistance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state
> ignition modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that
> heat conduction compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug
> seat and threads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue
of
> the heat conduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in th
e
> cylinder? Remember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help
> and or advice would be appreciated.
>
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
>
> Allegro 2000
>
> N661WW
>
> Rotax 912 UL
>
> 671 hours
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List" >http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RotaxEngines-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com" >http:/
/forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" >http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
>
> --
> Lyle
>
> Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop
>
>
> *
>
===========
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
> Hi Hugh
Download from here:
http://contrails.free.fr/temp/9xx_heavy_maintenance_d05014.pdf the 912
heavy maintenance manual.
Go to section 74,scroll down to page 22, it will tell you what you are
suppose to see in terms of electrical resistance on different reference
points in the ignition system . Check resistance from the internal of the
plug connector to ground on all spark plug connectors, any reading in the
range of 10.5 to 12.7 K ohm is a good reading (I summarized the connector
resistance with the high voltage coil resistance, the last two lines on
page 22). If all is well in that area then I would say that you have one or
more faulty spark plugs, or may be the method of gaping you used is wrong
altogether? (replaced inch units with MM units?)
If you get some suspicious readings measuring the 8 connectors to ground,
continue troubleshooting by separating the connectors from the wires,
measuring the stand alone connector resistance and then the wire end to
ground, compare to correct values as shown in page 22.
Good luck, tell us please what was the happy end of the story
Nati Niv
RANS S6S 912ULS
Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JohnF" <n29cx(at)ridgeviewtel.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
I had a similiar, but somewhat more gentle problem after a plug change rece
ntly. Roger Lee, at the Tucson Rotax Service Center, gave me a solution...w
hen pulling the plug wires off it is easy to pull back the wire inside the
cable....try this...remove the caps from the plug wires, and trim about 1/4
-inch off the cable, then reinsert the top cap of the plug wire assembly ba
ck onto the plug top. If the wire had pulled back it would cause the proble
m you have.
Hope this helps.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Peterson
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
Put the old plugs back in. The problem stated with the new plugs. Many
new products fail right out of the box. The consumer is now quality contro
l.
On 7/17/2014 1:31 PM, Hugh McKay wrote:
When I replaced the plugs I did one at a time to make sure I connected
the correct plug wire to the correct cylinder. Went Back and checked again
today and the wires are correct. I also have the cylinder number marked on
each valve cover, and each plug wire has a yellow band from the factory sho
wing the number of the cylinder it goes to. Everything is correct. If the w
ires are connected correct, what would be my next step in finding the probl
em?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Max Cointe (Free)
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:02 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
It looks very similar to what I had during last 50 hours maintenance (o
n my MCR 4S). It wasn=99t the first visit I did and so I was very sur
prised to see how bad the engine was running after. And maybe I could still
be there scratching my head (no hairs to pull out) =C2 if someone didn
=99t came to show me that the lower wires were inverted on cylinders 2 a
nd 4! Quite difficult to start, bad running on both mags and almost a shut
down when running on =9Cmag 1=9D or =9Cmag2=9D.
So for me double check your wires (or triple or ask someone to do it fo
r you, no shame!)
Max=C2 Cointe
mcointe(at)free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures
De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxen
gines-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Hugh McKay
Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 17 juillet 2014 15:08
=C3 : Rotax Engines
Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Rough Running
I have a 912 UL engine (671 hours TSN) on my Allegro 2000 E-LSA. I rout
inely changed the 8 plugs yesterday. Have done this numerous times without
any problem. Immediately upon starting the engine it was difficult to start
and when it finally did start it ran with difficulty and was very very rou
gh especially around 2000 to 2500 rpm (almost wanted to jump out of the eng
ine mounts). I stopped the engine immediately and rechecked all that I had
done. Everything appeared to be correct. The wires were connected correctly
and were tight on the plugs themselves. The engine was running fine before
I changed the plugs. Nothing was done except to pull off the plug caps, re
move the old plugs, install new NG DCPR7E plugs with small amount of heat t
ransfer compound on threads, new electrode gap was 0.030, torqued to 177 in
=2Elb, and plug caps reinstalled tight.
Removing the plug caps from the plugs is difficult because of how tight
they fit. The caps have to be =9Cwiggled=9D some to get them t
o begin to release to be pulled off. Since I have done this routinely for a
number of times (6 times since new) I thought I may have damaged one of th
e plug caps. The problem is clearly an engine ignition problem and the only
place where the plug wires have been handled or manipulated is at the plug
caps where I have to physically pull off the caps to remove and replace th
e plugs. If I have damaged the wire/cap connection inside the cap how do I
find this out? How do I check the individual plug wires for the proper resi
stance since one end of each wire is connected to the solid state ignition
modules? I notice that the Rotax Maintenance Manual states that heat conduc
tion compound can lead to ignition problems and the spark plug seat and thr
eads in the cylinder should be cleaned to remove any residue of the heat co
nduction compound. How do you clean the seat and threads in the cylinder? R
emember, I have done nothing but replaced the plugs. Any help and or advice
would be appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
671 hours
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
--
Lyle
Sent from my Gateway E4610D desktop
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protec
tion is active.
http://www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
The Rotax plug gap spec is .023 to .027. The wide gap for hot months and the narrow
gap for cold winter months. If you want to just use .025 it won't hurt a
thing. Absolutely no anti seize on any Rotax plugs... It should be the silicone
based heat sync paste. Do not let it get down on the tips or it will cause
mis-firing. Keep the paste on the upper 1/2 - 2/3 of the top of the plug threads.
Leave the bottom 1/2 1/3 clean threads.
If you yank a plug boot off too hard you may dislocate or pull the wire tip out
of it's threaded anchor inside the boot. Always grab the plug boot and try not
to be ham fisted. Just wiggle it back and forth as you pull.
Many have found that they swapped plug wires even though they thought they were
right. Just double check.
If it shook this hard then it isn't just one plug wire or plug being an issue.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426860#426860
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
Hugh,
I had this happen to me on 2 occasions. The first one occurred when I
reversed two of the plug wires when a friend walked into my hanger when I was
working on the plane. I got distracted (won't do that again)
The second one happened when I put new plugs in the engine as you have.
After much checking I finally removed the new plugs and "bomb" checked them
in my friends Champion spark plug checker. I found that one of the new
plugs would not fire when pressure was applied to it. I chucked that plug in the
bin and installed another new plug(after checking it) Problem solved.
Dick Maddux
912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rough Running |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Hugh,
OK, let me add my 2 on the subject. Last year at annual condition inspection I
replaced the plugs on my 914. Ran like a sewing machine before the annual.
Ran rough as a cob after. All the plug wires in the right places. Investigated
the ignition module wiring, OK. Played with balancing the carbs. Nothing
helped. Pulled the new plugs and inspected them, one at a time. One of the new
plugs had a cracked insulator between the center electrode and outer case.
You could see it after the run because the crack was stained brown. Replaced
that plug and the engine ran much better. Smoothed out beautifully when I went
back and rebalanced the carbs.
Check all those new plugs. One or more could be bad. If you have the facilities,
pressure (or bomb) check them as well. If all your plug wires go to the right
place, I bet you have one or two bad plugs.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 8th Annual 2014 Page, AZ. Fly-In |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
8th Annual 2014 Page, AZ. Fly-In
(WOW, Who would have thought, 8 years)
Lake Powell, Monument Valley, Bryce Canyon, Zion, Grand Canyon, Bullfrog Marina
Resort...
Make those reservations now. It's time again to work on the Page, AZ Fly-In. We
changed a few things last year that added some new fun. We did the river raft
trip the day before the actual Fly-In day. It was a great raft trip. I would
highly recommend it.
We changed up some of the routes last year which turned out well so we'll do it
again.
The Page, AZ. Fly-In date is October 16-19, 2014
We will fly the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Monument Valley (breakfast), Zion Canyon
and Bryce Canyon (breakfast), Bullfrog Marina and Resort (breakfast).
I have blocked off 35 rooms. We will be at the Holiday Inn with a rate of $66 (2
queen beds). I hope to have a record number of CT's and LSA aircraft for our
Page Fly-In. Just like last year make the reservations early so you don't miss
out and the hotel won't hold all 40 rooms forever.
Do not wait this year. Book it now and you can cancel up to 24 hours before Oct.
16th. Get it booked and reserved, then if you have to cancel you can, but if
you wait again then you may not be staying with the rest of us and at your own
peril for rates and possibly a different hotel. They book darn near the whole
town in October.
You must tell them you are with the "CT Group and ask to speak with Courtney" for
your reference and the rate of $66 a night. We will arrive Thursday morning,
Oct. 16th. and head home Oct. 19th. Sunday or Monday morning. Breakfast is free
in the mornings. This hotel has not only a continental breakfast, but a full
breakfast.
I talked to the people at the Ranch House Grill and they will cater our evening
meals again. We will have evening meals together Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
Holiday Inn Express PAGE-LAKE POWELL
Ask for Courtney or Andrea Smith
751 South Navajo Drive, Page, AZ 86040
928-645-9000
We will fly into the Page airport - KPGA.
We are staying with Classic FBO and with our group we should get a 30 cent discount
on fuel.
Classic is not the first FBO next to the runway, but the second one behind them.
The Antelope Canyon tour and the Dam tour is open if anyone wants. These are land
tours.
You guys are welcome to invite other planes that are not CT's and everyone is welcome.
Find some more LSA's.
I will develop GPS coordinates for all our routes and post them so you can enter
them in your own GPS. I have a plan to better deal with all our planes for our
flights so they are not crowded in the mornings or evenings.
Don't miss this, we always have fun.
p.s.
I would like everyone coming to shoot me an email so I can put together a roster,
make name tags and set up call signs like we did last year. If you attended
last year and we had your personal info then just say you are coming. If you
did not come last year then I would like the email to include: N#, Names of you
and co-pilot, cell phone number, city, state.
This is a big help for me to last year to organize our fly outs since we have so
many planes and gives old friends and new friends a way to contact each other
if need be.
Thanks,
Roger Lee
Something new has been added. (This was lots of fun last year)
You must refer to this Reservation Number: 70361 and tell them you are with the
CT group.
A 1/2 day raft trip on Wed. Oct. 15th from Glen Canyon Dam down to Lee's Ferry.
The trip starts in Page (at 1100 hrs) where we will take a shuttle bus down below
the dam. We will board a 20-22 person raft and travel down river for about
1.5 hrs. and get out for drinks and photos. Then back in and on down close to
Lee's Ferry. Then we turn around a high speed boat back to the start. There is
no white water just a nice trip down through the canyons. The cost for all of
this is $87 a person. The phone number for the reservations is 928-645-9175.
Don't be left out, I know of at least 6 people that have already signed up so don't
be late to make the boat, sign up now. They have a 48 hr. cancellation policy
and you get it all back except a $7 charge. This means you will have to arrive
in Page Oct. 15th.
BRING YOUR HAT, SUNGLASSES AND SUNSCREEN.
Here is the link: http://raftthecanyon...day-raft-trips/
What are you waiting for, let's go, I'm already signed up. ;)
Saturday Bomb drop and spot landing fun at Cal-Black airport a few miles NE of
Page, AZ.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426926#426926
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8th Annual 2014 Page, AZ. Fly-In |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
The Page Fly-In attendees list was just updated.
WHY ISN'T YOUR NAME ON THE LIST?
Come join us. It will be the best trip you ever had. Scenery and friends like none
other.
p.s.
Don't forget to send Roger your personal info as it is ask for in the original
post.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426929#426929
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8th Annual 2014 Page, AZ. Fly-In |
| From: | Don Hudgeon <don(at)hudgeon.com> |
Hi Roger
Just wondering if a Canadian with a KITFOX Vixen would be welcome!!!
I am presently building an enclosed trailer for my Vixen with the intention
of traveling to AZ for a few months this winter. I am towing it with a
Sprinter Campervan.
I would organize my trip to come through the Page area at this time.. I
could arrive in time to setup my plane and join you CT folks on the flying
trips.
Don Hudgeon
14008 Nesbitt Ave
Summerland,BC
V0H 1Z1
250 494-9042
don(at)hudgeon.com
KITFOX Vixen C-FOXK
912UL IVO IFA prop.
Cheers
Don
On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 7:05 AM, Roger Lee wrote:
>
> The Page Fly-In attendees list was just updated.
>
> WHY ISN'T YOUR NAME ON THE LIST?
>
> Come join us. It will be the best trip you ever had. Scenery and friends
> like none other.
>
> p.s.
> Don't forget to send Roger your personal info as it is ask for in the
> original post.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426929#426929
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? |
Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town.
That might work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use
something like MetalPrep
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/metalprep.php?clickkey=99083>,
then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a really
good bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off
with the finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of
fuel drain into your wing. >:o (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I
glassed over it after bonding it.)
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:
> What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to
> the outside of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other
> adhesive. Would it work?
>
> Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then
> screw the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
> The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8th Annual 2014 Page, AZ. Fly-In |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Don,
All are welcome. We have aircraft of all types and speeds.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426988#426988
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8th Annual 2014 Page, AZ. Fly-In |
| From: | Don Hudgeon <don(at)hudgeon.com> |
Thanks Roger
I will plan on attending.
Cheers
Don
On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Roger Lee wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> All are welcome. We have aircraft of all types and speeds.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426988#426988
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be in-line |
filters)
Hi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are scary thoughts.
I did mean to add =9Cand then glass them over=9D to my
original post in fact.
But it turns out my wing tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend
who is more knowledgeable than me in these matters told me they look
like they are polyethylene, or maybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox
header tank. So gluing will be difficult and I=99m not sure
glassing them will work either: it looks like I will not be able to fit
finger strainers (or fuel drain valves) to either wing tank as I
can=99t find a viable way to attach the fuel ports/aluminum
flanges to the tank walls. (As they need to be close to the trailing
edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to fit a counter-nut on the
inside of the tank either).
Instead of finger strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of
fitting a single finger strainer to the header tank. It looks like this
can be done without too much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass
mesh to the fuel port (the finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be
made that way in fact I=99m having trouble finding brass
mesh so I may have to cut some from one of the ACS strainers).
sacha
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Buchanan
Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2014 07:07
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend
any?
Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town.
That might work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use
something like MetalPrep
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/metalprep.php?clickkey=9
9083> , then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a
really good bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange
pop off with the finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire
tank of fuel drain into your wing. >:o (Meaning: I would never do it,
unless I glassed over it after bonding it.)
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:
What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to the
outside of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other
adhesive. Would it work?
Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then
screw the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8th Annual 2014 Page, AZ. Fly-In |
Hi Don,
I usually trailer my Kitfox to Page at the same time as the CT flyin and
have used the large gravel area just past the main transient ramp to park
the trailer if the ramp is expected to be loaded.
Last year the lady who had airport management duties and wears other hats
for the town was concerned about having room for my rig until I negotiated
an arrangement to have the on site airport maintenance guys work with me
to make sure I was not "in the way". If you end up using the gravel area
expect to deal with sand burs.
By the way, I will do two forums at Air Venture this year, the usual tips
on touring by motorhome and folding wing plane. Not much changed in the
forums since the last forums at Sun N Fun, Sebring and Copper State.
Hope you get to have FUN!
Robert (Bob) Jones
Kitfox IV 912
Enclosed trailer
> Hi Roger
> Just wondering if a Canadian with a KITFOX Vixen would be welcome!!!
>
> I am presently building an enclosed trailer for my Vixen with the
> intention
> of traveling to AZ for a few months this winter. I am towing it with a
> Sprinter Campervan.
> I would organize my trip to come through the Page area at this time.. I
> could arrive in time to setup my plane and join you CT folks on the flying
> trips.
>
> Don Hudgeon
> 14008 Nesbitt Ave
> Summerland,BC
> V0H 1Z1
> 250 494-9042
> don(at)hudgeon.com
>
> KITFOX Vixen C-FOXK
> 912UL IVO IFA prop.
>
> Cheers
> Don
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 7:05 AM, Roger Lee wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The Page Fly-In attendees list was just updated.
>>
>> WHY ISN'T YOUR NAME ON THE LIST?
>>
>> Come join us. It will be the best trip you ever had. Scenery and friends
>> like none other.
>>
>> p.s.
>> Don't forget to send Roger your personal info as it is ask for in the
>> original post.
>>
>> --------
>> Roger Lee
>> Tucson, Az.
>> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
>> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
>> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
>> Cell 520-349-7056
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426929#426929
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
On 7/20/2014 3:49 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
> But it turns out my wing tanks are not made of resin after all; a
> friend who is more knowledgeable than me in these matters told me they
> look like they are polyethylene, or maybe a kind of nylon, like the
> Kitfox header tank. So gluing will be difficult and Im not sure
> glassing them will work either:
>
It's true. Nothing sticks reliably to polyethylene. It has to be welded.
>
> Instead of finger strainers on each wing, Im thinking of fitting a
> single finger strainer to the header tank. It looks like this can be
> done without too much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh
> to the fuel port (the finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be
> made that way in fact Im having trouble finding brass mesh so I may
> have to cut some from one of the ACS strainers).
>
I think the ACS strainers use steel mesh. Call them, they should be able
to tell you.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
I have one here and it looks like bronze or brass. It's tin-soldered to a 1/2"
male 3/8" female NPT fitting.
> On Jul 21, 2014, at 5:53, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> I think the ACS strainers use steel mesh.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Usage with Oil Injectin? |
| From: | "Thumper" <dlong1957(at)yahoo.com> |
Roger or others.
With a 582, one take off and one landing, cruising at 5800 rpm what should
the oil usage be? Should it use the equivalent of 50-1 (12 gallons of gas used
and 32 ounces of oil) or will be it somewhat less. At idle the mark on the
oil pump lever is slightly advanced from the mark on the pump which indicates
it should be using more oil than normal? Is the same lever used on all engines?
Seems like each displacement engine should use different amount of oil since
they all use different amounts of fuel per throttle opening? Just trying
to know what is right since this is the first Rotax I have used with oil injection.
Thanks
Dennis
--------
Dennis Long
Oakland TN
2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser
Previously Kolb Mark IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar.
700+hours since 1/1/2009
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427366#427366
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Usage with Oil Injectin? |
I measured rates between 50 and 70 to one, and ground idle time
definitely kept things more toward the 50 side of things. Indeed it was
hard to get it up toward 70.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 7/26/2014 7:47 AM, Thumper wrote:
>
> Roger or others.
> With a 582, one take off and one landing, cruising at 5800 rpm what should
the oil usage be? Should it use the equivalent of 50-1 (12 gallons of gas
used and 32 ounces of oil) or will be it somewhat less. At idle the mark on
the oil pump lever is slightly advanced from the mark on the pump which indicates
it should be using more oil than normal? Is the same lever used on all engines?
Seems like each displacement engine should use different amount of oil
since they all use different amounts of fuel per throttle opening? Just trying
to know what is right since this is the first Rotax I have used with oil injection.
>
> Thanks
> Dennis
>
> --------
> Dennis Long
> Oakland TN
> 2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser
> Previously Kolb Mark IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar.
> 700+hours since 1/1/2009
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427366#427366
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stan Tew <stan_tew(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/26/14 |
I flew for over 10 years with oil injection. I just filled the reservoir at
the beginning of each flight. Do this especially if you are planning a lon
g trip with couple of fuel stops. Also, take a bottle with you. It is small
, lightweight and has NO substitute.=0A=0A-=0ASTAN 2=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, J
uly 27, 2014 2:14 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A*=0A=0A============
==============0A- Online Versions of Today's L
ist Digest Archive=0A==================
========0A=0AToday's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can al
so be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html fi
le includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser
and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt fil
e includes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the RotaxEngines-List Digest and c
an be viewed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web br
owser. =0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/dig
estview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-07-26&Archive=RotaxE
ngines=0A=0AText Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/dige
stview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-07-26&Archive=RotaxEng
ines=0A=0A=0A====================
====0A- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A===
=====================0A=0A=0A-
- - - - ----------------------------------------------------------
=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - RotaxEngines-List D
igest Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messa
ges Posted Sat 07/26/14: 1=0A- - - - - -------------------------
---------------------------------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A--------
--------------=0A=0A- - 1. 07:48 AM - Oil Usage with Oil Injectin?-
(Thumper)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 1- _____
: RotaxEngines-List: Oil Usage with Oil Injectin?=0AFrom: "Thumper" <dlong1
957(at)yahoo.com>=0A=0A=0ARoger or others.- =0A- - - With a 582, one t
ake off and one landing, cruising at 5800 rpm what should=0Athe oil usage b
e?- Should it use the equivalent of 50-1 (12 gallons of gas used=0Aand 32
ounces of oil) or will be it somewhat less.- At idle the mark on the=0Ao
il pump lever is slightly advanced from the mark on the pump which indicate
s=0Ait should be using more oil than normal?- Is the same lever used on a
ll engines?=0ASeems like each displacement engine should use different amou
nt of oil since=0Athey all use different amounts of fuel per throttle openi
ng?- Just trying=0Ato know what is right since this is the first Rotax I
have used with oil injection.=0A=0A=0AThanks=0ADennis=0A=0A--------=0ADenni
s Long=0AOakland TN=0A2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser=0APreviously Kolb Ma
rk IIIC, 94 Firestar, 84 Ultrastar.=0A700+hours since 1/1/2009=0A=0A=0ARead
this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Sacha:
Why go through all that headache.
Come off the fuel tank at the lowest point in the delivery system.
Install two items; a T fitting with a sump drain and just before it an
inline clear or translucent fuel filter. One on EACH tank, if you have two
tanks.
This way you now have a water drain at the lowest point in the system AND
you have a simple replaceable fuel filter. MUCH, Much better than just a
screen.
If you can replace the filters Annually at Inspection time.
Simple, easy, and very effective.
The rule you must follow is: The filter as well as your fuel lines must be
able to feed fuel at 3 times the full flow rate of your engine. GPH/GPM.
And of course that means a larger surface / filtering area than the screen
will ever be.
Barry
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Sacha wrote:
> Hi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are scary thoughts.
I did
> mean to add =9Cand then glass them over=9D to my original pos
t in fact.
>
>
> But it turns out my wing tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend
> who is more knowledgeable than me in these matters told me they look like
> they are polyethylene, or maybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox header
> tank. So gluing will be difficult and I=99m not sure glassing the
m will
> work either: it looks like I will not be able to fit finger strainers (or
> fuel drain valves) to either wing tank as I can=99t find a viable w
ay to
> attach the fuel ports/aluminum flanges to the tank walls. (As they need
to
> be close to the trailing edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to f
it a
> counter-nut on the inside of the tank either).
>
>
> Instead of finger strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of fitting
a single
> finger strainer to the header tank. It looks like this can be done witho
ut
> too much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh to the fuel port
> (the finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be made that way
in fact
> I=99m having trouble finding brass mesh so I may have to cut some f
rom one of
> the ACS strainers).
>
>
> sacha
>
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Guy Buchanan
> *Sent:* Sunday, 20 July, 2014 07:07
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you
> recommend any?
>
>
> Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town.
>
> That might work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use
> something like MetalPrep
> <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/metalprep.php?clickkey=9
9083>,
> then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a really goo
d
> bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off with th
e
> finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of fuel drain
> into your wing. >:o (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I glassed over
> it after bonding it.)
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
> On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
> What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to the
> outside of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesiv
e.
> Would it work?
>
>
> Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then scre
w
> the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
>
> The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous =EF
=BD -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> *
>
===========
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Weaver <mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
For those that use ACS gascolators that=C2-are several years old.=C2- T
here is now a rubber seal ring that is rated for auto fuel with ethanol.=C2
- I found that over time my ACS rubber seal washer had hardened and neede
d to be replaced.=C2- The newer upgraded seal washer is available from Ai
r Spruce.=C2- I like the approach of filtering fuel with only a fire wall
mounted gascolator.=C2- I have the Aero Designs after date sump drains
=C2-installed on=C2-the bottom of both wings.=C2- I shaped a stream l
ine fillet of micro around each protruding drain valve for esthetic reasons
and to lower any generated airflow turbulence.=0ADave Weaver N912GR =0A=0A
=0AOn Monday, July 28, 2014 7:51 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
=0A =0A=0A=0ASacha:=0A=0AWhy go through all that headache. =C2-=0ACome o
ff the fuel tank at the lowest point in the delivery system.=0AInstall two
items; a T fitting with a sump drain and just before it an inline clear or
translucent fuel filter. =C2-One on EACH tank, if you have two tanks.=0AT
his way you now have a water drain at the lowest point in the system AND=0A
you have a simple replaceable fuel filter. =C2-MUCH, Much better than jus
t a screen. =0AIf you can replace the filters Annually at Inspection time.
=0ASimple, easy, and very effective. =0AThe rule you must follow is: =C2-
The filter as well as your fuel lines must be able to feed fuel at 3 times
the full flow rate of your engine. =C2-GPH/GPM. =C2-And of course that
means a larger surface / filtering area than the screen will ever be. =0A
=0ABarry=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Sacha wrote:=0A=0AHi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are sca
ry thoughts.=C2- I did mean to add =9Cand then glass them over
=9D to my original post in fact. =0A>=C2-=0A>But it turns out my wing
tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend who is more knowledgeable
than me in these matters told me they look like they are polyethylene, or m
aybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox header tank.=C2- =C2-So gluing wi
ll be difficult and I=99m not sure glassing them will work either: it
looks like I will not be able to fit finger strainers (or fuel drain valve
s) to either wing tank as I can=99t find a viable way to attach the f
uel ports/aluminum flanges to the tank walls.=C2- (As they need to be clo
se to the trailing edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to fit a cou
nter-nut on the inside of the tank either). =0A>=C2-=0A>Instead of finger
strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of fitting a single finger st
rainer to the header tank.=C2- It looks like this can be done without too
much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh to the fuel port (the
finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be made that way in fact
I=99m having trouble finding brass mesh so I may have to cut some fr
om one of the ACS strainers). =0A>=C2-=0A>sacha =0A>=C2-=0A>=C2- =0A>
From:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengine
s-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan=0A>Sent: Sunday, 20
July, 2014 07:07=0A>To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Rot
axEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any? =0A>=C2-=0A
>Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town. =0A>=0A>That might
work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use something like Met
alPrep, then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a real
ly good bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off w
ith the finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of fuel d
rain into your wing. >:o=C2- (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I glas
sed over it after bonding it.)=0A>=0A>Guy Buchanan=0A>Ramona, CA=0A>Kitfox
IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded=0A>Now a glider pilot, t
oo.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:=0A>What do you th
ink of the idea of =C2-gluing aluminum welding flanges to the outside of
the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesive. Would it w
ork?=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the t
ank =C2-and then screw the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.=C2-
=0A>>The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower dow
n.=C2- =0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngine
s-List =0A>http://forums.matronics.com/=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web generous =EF=BD=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--Matt Dralle, List href="
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c= =0A>
=C2- =0A>ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxE
ngines-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
=========================0A
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
| From: | Don Hudgeon <don(at)hudgeon.com> |
I use ONLY a gascolator on my 912 UL and in 490 hours have never had a fuel
contamination issue. I use non ethanol mogas exclusively except when
travelling and 100LL is all that is available. I purchase fuel directly
from the bulk agent.
I might be wrong but too many filters on a gravity system may not be the
answer.
Take care
Don
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:27 AM, David Weaver
wrote:
> For those that use ACS gascolators that are several years old. There is
> now a rubber seal ring that is rated for auto fuel with ethanol. I found
> that over time my ACS rubber seal washer had hardened and needed to be
> replaced. The newer upgraded seal washer is available from Air Spruce.
I
> like the approach of filtering fuel with only a fire wall mounted
> gascolator. I have the Aero Designs after date sump drains installed
> on the bottom of both wings. I shaped a stream line fillet of micro arou
nd
> each protruding drain valve for esthetic reasons and to lower any generat
ed
> airflow turbulence.
> Dave Weaver N912GR
>
>
> On Monday, July 28, 2014 7:51 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>
> Sacha:
>
> Why go through all that headache.
> Come off the fuel tank at the lowest point in the delivery system.
> Install two items; a T fitting with a sump drain and just before it an
> inline clear or translucent fuel filter. One on EACH tank, if you have t
wo
> tanks.
> This way you now have a water drain at the lowest point in the system AND
> you have a simple replaceable fuel filter. MUCH, Much better than just a
> screen.
> If you can replace the filters Annually at Inspection time.
> Simple, easy, and very effective.
> The rule you must follow is: The filter as well as your fuel lines must
> be able to feed fuel at 3 times the full flow rate of your engine.
> GPH/GPM. And of course that means a larger surface / filtering area tha
n
> the screen will ever be.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
> Hi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are scary thoughts.
I did
> mean to add =9Cand then glass them over=9D to my original pos
t in fact.
>
> But it turns out my wing tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend
> who is more knowledgeable than me in these matters told me they look like
> they are polyethylene, or maybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox header
> tank. So gluing will be difficult and I=99m not sure glassing the
m will
> work either: it looks like I will not be able to fit finger strainers (or
> fuel drain valves) to either wing tank as I can=99t find a viable w
ay to
> attach the fuel ports/aluminum flanges to the tank walls. (As they need
to
> be close to the trailing edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to f
it a
> counter-nut on the inside of the tank either).
>
> Instead of finger strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of fitting
a single
> finger strainer to the header tank. It looks like this can be done witho
ut
> too much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh to the fuel port
> (the finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be made that way
in fact
> I=99m having trouble finding brass mesh so I may have to cut some f
rom one of
> the ACS strainers).
>
> sacha
>
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Guy Buchanan
> *Sent:* Sunday, 20 July, 2014 07:07
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you
> recommend any?
>
> Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town.
>
> That might work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use
> something like MetalPrep
> <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/metalprep.php?clickkey=9
9083>,
> then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a really goo
d
> bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off with th
e
> finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of fuel drain
> into your wing. >:o (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I glassed over
> it after bonding it.)
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
> On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
> What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to the
> outside of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesiv
e.
> Would it work?
>
> Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then scre
w
> the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
> The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/ - List Contribution Web generous =EF
=BD -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> *
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Li
st <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List <http://cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines
-List>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http --> http://www.matronics.co
m/con===============
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>
>
> *
>
===========
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Don:
The issue is a brass screen that is difficult or impossible to install Vs a
functional in-line filter that does a better job then either the Gascolator
or brass screen. I know you guys are experimental - But, do you know the
issue with Gascolators and their bail? They require a second safety wire
to hold the bail. And the Gascolator does not filter as fine as an inline
$3.50 filter. And the Gascolator is not designed for fine filtering. It
is designed for water separation. As long as you sump it at ever flight.
My suggestion: Keep the Gascolator, I'm sure Sacha plans on doing that -
AND - Install the in-line filter for a total worry free operation.
Barry
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Don Hudgeon wrote:
> I use ONLY a gascolator on my 912 UL and in 490 hours have never had a
> fuel contamination issue. I use non ethanol mogas exclusively except when
> travelling and 100LL is all that is available. I purchase fuel directly
> from the bulk agent.
>
> I might be wrong but too many filters on a gravity system may not be the
> answer.
>
> Take care
> Don
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:27 AM, David Weaver
> wrote:
>
>> For those that use ACS gascolators that are several years old. There is
>> now a rubber seal ring that is rated for auto fuel with ethanol. I foun
d
>> that over time my ACS rubber seal washer had hardened and needed to be
>> replaced. The newer upgraded seal washer is available from Air Spruce.
I
>> like the approach of filtering fuel with only a fire wall mounted
>> gascolator. I have the Aero Designs after date sump drains installed
>> on the bottom of both wings. I shaped a stream line fillet of micro aro
und
>> each protruding drain valve for esthetic reasons and to lower any genera
ted
>> airflow turbulence.
>> Dave Weaver N912GR
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 28, 2014 7:51 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote
:
>>
>>
>> Sacha:
>>
>> Why go through all that headache.
>> Come off the fuel tank at the lowest point in the delivery system.
>> Install two items; a T fitting with a sump drain and just before it an
>> inline clear or translucent fuel filter. One on EACH tank, if you have
two
>> tanks.
>> This way you now have a water drain at the lowest point in the system AN
D
>> you have a simple replaceable fuel filter. MUCH, Much better than just
a
>> screen.
>> If you can replace the filters Annually at Inspection time.
>> Simple, easy, and very effective.
>> The rule you must follow is: The filter as well as your fuel lines must
>> be able to feed fuel at 3 times the full flow rate of your engine.
>> GPH/GPM. And of course that means a larger surface / filtering area th
an
>> the screen will ever be.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Sacha wrote:
>>
>> Hi Guy, thank for your feedback yeah, those are scary thoughts.
I did
>> mean to add =9Cand then glass them over=9D to my original po
st in fact.
>>
>> But it turns out my wing tanks are not made of resin after all; a friend
>> who is more knowledgeable than me in these matters told me they look lik
e
>> they are polyethylene, or maybe a kind of nylon, like the Kitfox header
>> tank. So gluing will be difficult and I=99m not sure glassing th
em will
>> work either: it looks like I will not be able to fit finger strainers (o
r
>> fuel drain valves) to either wing tank as I can=99t find a viable
way to
>> attach the fuel ports/aluminum flanges to the tank walls. (As they need
to
>> be close to the trailing edge of the wing, it=99s not feasible to
fit a
>> counter-nut on the inside of the tank either).
>>
>> Instead of finger strainers on each wing, I=99m thinking of fittin
g a
>> single finger strainer to the header tank. It looks like this can be do
ne
>> without too much difficulty if I can tin-solder some brass mesh to the f
uel
>> port (the finger strainers they sell at ACS seem to be made that way
in
>> fact I=99m having trouble finding brass mesh so I may have to cut
some from
>> one of the ACS strainers).
>>
>> sacha
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Guy Buchana
n
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 20 July, 2014 07:07
>> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: in-line fuel filters - can you
>> recommend any?
>>
>> Sorry for the late reply, Sacha, I've been out of town.
>>
>> That might work. You must be very careful to sand, clean, then use
>> something like MetalPrep
>> <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/metalprep.php?clickkey=
99083>,
>> then Alodine, to prep the surface of the aluminum so you get a really go
od
>> bond. It will seriously ruin your day to have this flange pop off with t
he
>> finger strainer in place, thereby letting the entire tank of fuel drain
>> into your wing. >:o (Meaning: I would never do it, unless I glassed
>> over it after bonding it.)
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> Ramona, CA
>> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
>> Now a glider pilot, too.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/16/2014 8:50 PM, Sacha wrote:
>>
>> What do you think of the idea of gluing aluminum welding flanges to the
>> outside of the tank using two-part epoxy resin/glue or some other adhesi
ve.
>> Would it work?
>>
>> Once the flanges are glued i could drill holes in the tank and then
>> screw the finger strainers/fuel drains in place.
>> The flange for the fuel port could be cut so that it can sit lower down.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/ - List Contribution Web generous
=EF=BD -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List <http://cs.com/Navigator?RotaxEngine
s-List>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http --> http://www.matronics.c
om/con===============
>>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
===========
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line fi
As with Barry I also have the inline filters and gascolator. Have had this
arrangement for about 5 years now with no problems. My primary reason for
installing the inline filters (about a foot or so below the wing tanks) was
to check for possible flaking off of the wing tank sloshing compound as has
happened with other Kitfox owners in the past. Even though I only use
ethanol free car gas in my 912 I just want to have a check point as I get into
the cockpit.
Dick Maddux
Kitfox 4
912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | polyethylene tanks and fuel ports (used to be |
in-line filters)
Thank you all for your suggestions.
I=99m planning to keep the gascolator because it=99s
currently installed at the lowest point in the whole fuel system and
would be where water is most likely to accumulate. Water could also
accumulate in the wings (I have recently been reading www.sumpthis.com
which I would recommended if you=99re interested in this issue)
and I would also ideally want a sump drain in each wing. If I
can=99t install one there, I will probably follow Barry=99s
suggestions to install one on a T-fitting just outside the wing fuel
port.
As far as in-line fuel filters between the wings and the header tank, I
sympathize with the view that too many filters can potentially be a
problem with a gravity feed system, but I am also leaning towards
including them because a) there are no strainers in the wings to stop
gunk from getting into the feeder tank and b) there are two such
filters, so they would both have to clog up in order to affect fuel flow
and c) even if they did end up blocking fuel flow from the wings, my
header tanks will hold 13 litres (3.8 gals) which is enough for almost
an hour of flying around looking for a place to land. Of course, if I
do install them I=99ll have to re-run all the fuel flow tests and
make sure they are satisfactory. I have a fuel pressure gauge mounted
so this will also be useful to gauge the resistance offered by any
in-line filter.
Again, thanks all for the helpful and stimulating comments.
Sacha
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
| From: | "tmitton" <tmitton99(at)gmail.com> |
Recently my 912ULS engine started only going to 5000rpm on takeoff with full throttle.
Previously it always went directly to 5500rpm or so upon application of full power.
Now it only goes above 5000rpm once it has been flying for a few minutes.
Once flying it will still go to 5500+ even in a climb so it isn't like it is
just the climbing load on take off that is holding it back.
No changes have been made to the engine so I don't know what would cause the RPM
drop. It is enough that takes offs now need 1000+ feet where as before 500-600ft
was enough. There is definitely a noticeable difference.
I have checked the carburetor linkages - full throw to the stops there. Drained
the gas in case it was old and replaced it with fresh new gas - no change. Tried
it with half a tank of 100LL to give it an octane boost - no change. Checked
the spark plugs - still clean after only 25hrs of use. Nothing stuck on the
rads. Oil topped up.
So - any idea as to what might cause the drop in rpm?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427986#427986
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
Don't know whether 912S works the same way as 914, but a
leak of fuel/air from the carb fuel bowl will do just that
on a 914. David Joyce
"tmitton" wrote:
>
>
> Recently my 912ULS engine started only going to 5000rpm
>on takeoff with full throttle.
>
> Previously it always went directly to 5500rpm or so upon
>application of full power. Now it only goes above 5000rpm
>once it has been flying for a few minutes. Once flying it
>will still go to 5500+ even in a climb so it isn't like
>it is just the climbing load on take off that is holding
>it back.
>
> No changes have been made to the engine so I don't know
>what would cause the RPM drop. It is enough that takes
>offs now need 1000+ feet where as before 500-600ft was
>enough. There is definitely a noticeable difference.
>
> I have checked the carburetor linkages - full throw to
>the stops there. Drained the gas in case it was old and
>replaced it with fresh new gas - no change. Tried it with
>half a tank of 100LL to give it an octane boost - no
>change. Checked the spark plugs - still clean after only
>25hrs of use. Nothing stuck on the rads. Oil topped up.
>
> So - any idea as to what might cause the drop in rpm?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427986#427986
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
| From: | kerrimikehickman <kerrimikehickman(at)aol.com> |
I had that exact problem w/912ULS...=0A=0A=0A-Findings: very small
hairline crack/approx. 2mm long in very small indentation (or
igin unknown) in top of one carb housing...=0A(discovered after
sending carbs to LEAF for routine ultrasonic cleaning/rubber rep
lacement).=0A=0A=0A--Result: replacement of carb top housing led t
o normal engine operation at all power settings.=0ACheers=0AMike=0A
=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: tmitton <tmitton99(at)gmail.com>=0AT
o: rotaxengines-list =0ASent: Mon, Aug
4, 2014 6:12 pm=0ASubject: RotaxEngines-List: Low RPM on Takeoff
ton99(at)gmail.com>=0A=0ARecently my 912ULS engine started only going
to 5000rpm on takeoff with full =0Athrottle.=0A=0APreviously it
always went directly to 5500rpm or so upon application of fu
ll =0Apower. Now it only goes above 5000rpm once it has be
en flying for a few minutes. =0AOnce flying it will still
go to 5500+ even in a climb so it isn't like it is =0A
just the climbing load on take off that is holding it back
. =0A=0ANo changes have been made to the engine so I don't
know what would cause the RPM =0Adrop. It is enough that
takes offs now need 1000+ feet where as before 500-600ft =0A
was enough. There is definitely a noticeable difference. =0A=0AI
have checked the carburetor linkages - full throw to the
stops there. Drained =0Athe gas in case it was old and rep
laced it with fresh new gas - no change. Tried =0Ait with
half a tank of 100LL to give it an octane boost - no c
hange. Checked the =0Aspark plugs - still clean after only 2
5hrs of use. Nothing stuck on the rads. =0AOil topped up.=0A
=0ASo - any idea as to what might cause the drop in rpm?
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics
===========================
===========================
===========================
= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
===========================
===========================
===========================
===============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Sounds like a STUCK VALVE or STUCK RINGS.
Or a Temperature issue with the Mags. Temperature required to expand
something.
Either way it is a ROTAX... What else would you expect!
Barry
I am looking for a Zenith 601 with a Continental O-200 or Lycoming O-235
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:11 PM, tmitton wrote:
>
> Recently my 912ULS engine started only going to 5000rpm on takeoff with
> full throttle.
>
> Previously it always went directly to 5500rpm or so upon application of
> full power. Now it only goes above 5000rpm once it has been flying for a
> few minutes. Once flying it will still go to 5500+ even in a climb so it
> isn't like it is just the climbing load on take off that is holding it back.
>
> No changes have been made to the engine so I don't know what would cause
> the RPM drop. It is enough that takes offs now need 1000+ feet where as
> before 500-600ft was enough. There is definitely a noticeable difference.
>
> I have checked the carburetor linkages - full throw to the stops there.
> Drained the gas in case it was old and replaced it with fresh new gas - no
> change. Tried it with half a tank of 100LL to give it an octane boost - no
> change. Checked the spark plugs - still clean after only 25hrs of use.
> Nothing stuck on the rads. Oil topped up.
>
> So - any idea as to what might cause the drop in rpm?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427986#427986
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
5000 rpm on take off would equate to approximately 5600 rpm WOT flat and level.
That should be about where you want to be for the average person.
If the compression test is normal (I expect it to be) and the carbs sync up well,
the mag drops are fairly equal and temps are all still what they used to be
then it could be your rpm gauge. If rpms were to really fall off that much then
there has to be changes going on somewhere else. You don't loose 500 rpm with
no other affects.
If you have an air leak that should show up by syncing the carbs (do this at 3500
rpm) or by spraying some starting fluid around the intake manifold and carb
sockets and if the rpm jumps up you have a leak.
Check the prop blades for equal pitch. If you can find nothing then rte-pitch the
prop and see where that takes you.
I have to ask.
Are you sure about your numbers?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428172#428172
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
| From: | "tmitton" <tmitton99(at)gmail.com> |
Positive about the numbers. Re-torqued all the prop bolts to spec (fixed pitch,
wooden prop) and nothing changed. Still 5000rpm WOT on the ground, 5500+rpm WOT
in the air. This sounds like good numbers but it WAS 5400+rpm WOT on the ground
last week!
Might try the starting fluid spray around the carbs next and see what happens.
Thanks,
Todd
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428192#428192
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl <b.carl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
Air density change (temperature, humidity) will cause a difference in static
RPM, but 500 is a lot. Also check your air filter.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "tmitton" <tmitton99(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 11:10 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff???
>
> Positive about the numbers. Re-torqued all the prop bolts to spec (fixed
> pitch, wooden prop) and nothing changed. Still 5000rpm WOT on the ground,
> 5500+rpm WOT in the air. This sounds like good numbers but it WAS 5400+rpm
> WOT on the ground last week!
>
> Might try the starting fluid spray around the carbs next and see what
> happens.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428192#428192
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
| From: | "tmitton" <tmitton99(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for all the help so far...but no solution yet.
We have checked just about everything everybody suggests but no luck.
Went over the carbs with a magnifying glass - couldn't see any leaks. sprayed it
with hair spray just in case to try to seal anything micro small. We even took
out and inspected the diaphragms up close.
No obvious intermittent grounds. Engine runs fine most of the time. Mag check drops
about 50rpm both sides every time.
Burning through premium gas regularly and diligently checking for water now.
All the rubber connectors into and out of the carbs are in good shape without cracks.
Changed the oil, cleaned or replaced the filters (air, gas and oil) and lubed every
other moving part. Even changed to a brand new backup propeller we had and
carefully tourqued all the bolts in place.
We have marginally improved - WOT to about 5100 on first application and up to
about 5300 after the 800ft run before t/o. (As high as we want in the air).
Having a professional Rotax mechanic take a look but I will be very surprised if
he finds anything obvious after our detailed examinations.
Oh well - it still gets off the ground and pulls the plane along (Tecnam P96 Golf)
so we still fly! Just wondering where our previous get up and go went?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428265#428265
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
If your throttle levers are spring activated, they may not be pulling the
throttles wide open.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tmitton
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:16 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff???
Thanks for all the help so far...but no solution yet.
We have checked just about everything everybody suggests but no luck.
Went over the carbs with a magnifying glass - couldn't see any leaks.
sprayed it with hair spray just in case to try to seal anything micro small.
We even took out and inspected the diaphragms up close.
No obvious intermittent grounds. Engine runs fine most of the time. Mag
check drops about 50rpm both sides every time.
Burning through premium gas regularly and diligently checking for water now.
All the rubber connectors into and out of the carbs are in good shape
without cracks.
Changed the oil, cleaned or replaced the filters (air, gas and oil) and
lubed every other moving part. Even changed to a brand new backup propeller
we had and carefully tourqued all the bolts in place.
We have marginally improved - WOT to about 5100 on first application and up
to about 5300 after the 800ft run before t/o. (As high as we want in the
air).
Having a professional Rotax mechanic take a look but I will be very
surprised if he finds anything obvious after our detailed examinations.
Oh well - it still gets off the ground and pulls the plane along (Tecnam P96
Golf) so we still fly! Just wondering where our previous get up and go went?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428265#428265
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/09/14 |
| From: | Marty Santic <marty.santic(at)gmail.com> |
Friend had a similar problem. Torn carb diaphram.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 10, 2014, at 12:01 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server
wrote:
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-08-09&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-08-09&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/09/14: 1
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? (Carl)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Carl <b.carl(at)sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff???
>
>
> Air density change (temperature, humidity) will cause a difference in static
> RPM, but 500 is a lot. Also check your air filter.
> Carl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tmitton" <tmitton99(at)gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 11:10 PM
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff???
>
>
>>
>> Positive about the numbers. Re-torqued all the prop bolts to spec (fixed
>> pitch, wooden prop) and nothing changed. Still 5000rpm WOT on the ground,
>> 5500+rpm WOT in the air. This sounds like good numbers but it WAS 5400+rpm
>> WOT on the ground last week!
>>
>> Might try the starting fluid spray around the carbs next and see what
>> happens.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Todd
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428192#428192
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/09/14 |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Friend had a similar problem. Torn carb diaphragm (sp).
Was that a case of a Ham Handed Wrench Turner or Rotax Design?
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Marty Santic
wrote:
> marty.santic(at)gmail.com>
>
> Friend had a similar problem. Torn carb diaphram.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 10, 2014, at 12:01 AM, RotaxEngines-List Digest Server <
> rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> >
> > *
> >
> > =================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > =================================================
> >
> > Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of
> the
> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> > of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-08-09&Archive=RotaxEngines
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-08-09&Archive=RotaxEngines
> >
> >
> > ===============================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ===============================================
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Sat 08/09/14: 1
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? (Carl)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: Carl <b.carl(at)sympatico.ca>
> > Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff???
> >
> >
> > Air density change (temperature, humidity) will cause a difference in
> static
> > RPM, but 500 is a lot. Also check your air filter.
> > Carl
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "tmitton" <tmitton99(at)gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 11:10 PM
> > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low RPM on Takeoff???
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Positive about the numbers. Re-torqued all the prop bolts to spec (fixed
> >> pitch, wooden prop) and nothing changed. Still 5000rpm WOT on the
> ground,
> >> 5500+rpm WOT in the air. This sounds like good numbers but it WAS
> 5400+rpm
> >> WOT on the ground last week!
> >>
> >> Might try the starting fluid spray around the carbs next and see what
> >> happens.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Todd
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428192#428192
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Removal Of 912 UL Gear Box |
Does the removal and reinstallation of the gear box on a 912 UL engine
require that the oil lubrication system be =9Cvented=9D
according to SI-04-1997 R3 before engine re-start?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Removal Of 912 UL Gear Box |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
No, no oil purge after a gearbox installation.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428502#428502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_J=F3hannsson?= <joeing701(at)simnet.is> |
| Subject: | Clamp for the carb rubber socket |
Hello Rotax list members.
Does anyone know where I can buy the clamp for the carburetor rubber
socket on the Rotax 912 engine. I do have the rubber sockets but no
clamp. Do not want to order the new rubber just to get the clamp.
Johann G.
Iceland.
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Clamp for the carb rubber socket |
Johann:
Contact Ronnie Smith at South Mississippi Light Aircraft. He'll send you
one.
http://www.flysmla.com/
Hope all is well in Iceland.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jhann
Jhannsson
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 12:45 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Clamp for the carb rubber socket
Hello Rotax list members.
Does anyone know where I can buy the clamp for the carburetor rubber socket
on the Rotax 912 engine. I do have the rubber sockets but no clamp. Do not
want to order the new rubber just to get the clamp.
Johann G.
Iceland.
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Clamp for the carb rubber socket |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
How do you have new sockets without a new clamp? Rotax carb sockets come with clamps.
The old clamps are gold and the new clamps are silver. You can use the old clamp
if you put an 8mm spacer in on the screw. This will keep you from over tightening
the clamp.
I see you live in Iceland so some of the below may not apply.
I hope these new sockets aren't JBM carb sockets or some other aftermarket part.
I have seen several lately and they are not up to standard. The rubber gets
too soft when hot, the carbs do not snap into place near as well. I just had
a Sky Ranger in my shop. The clamps were down even past the 8mm safe stop. I put
my fingers against the carb while I was checking something and it came out
of the socket way to easily. I did the same to the other side and it did the same.
I showed the owner the difference on a Rotax carb flange and he made me change
his out back to a Rotax part. If you squeeze the out side ends of a JBM
socket it is very soft and squeezable when hot and the Rotax is not. The Rotax
rubber carb flange has deeper recessed groves so the carb seats in much tighter
and doesn't easily push out of the socket. The Rotax socket holds the carb
in better than the JBM even without the use of a clamp on the Rotax flange.
There will be a new article out on the Rotax-Owner forum blog shortly about liability
and aftermarket parts. It is worth reading. Even if you own an Experimental
aircraft(in the US) you can still be held liable for
sub-standard parts. It would be very easy to prove and hold you the owner up for
at least a partial liable payout. The MFG of the part will be on the hook, but
so would you.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428526#428526
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clamp for the carb rubber socket |
I hope these new sockets aren't JBM carb sockets or some other aftermarket
part. I have seen several lately and they are not up to standard.
Roger Lee
I fly a Kolb MKIII pusher with a 912S. I use JBM carb sockets and his
stainless steel exhaust springs (on a Titan exhaust system). The SS springs
are great. I bought a set of 5 (1 for a spare) several years ago to replace
the Rotax springs I had been using. Couldn't keep Rotax springs from
breaking.
The JBM sockets have been on the engine for a few years and a couple
trans-continental flights. They seem to be performing as good as the
original Rotax sockets. I had to change out the Rotax sockets after a few
years because they started failing. I first noticed black streaks on top
each intake manifold. Took a while to figure out the streaks were being
made by the decomposing Rotax sockets which had also developed deep cracks.
So far the JBM sockets are staying together.
I have to check to see if my JBM sockets are "soft and squeezable" when hot,
and if they are going to fall off when I least expect it. Getting ready to
fly from Alabama to the Rock House near Burns Junction, Oregon. I don't
want to lose a carb.
For the most part I do use Rotax repair parts. A few items I do not:
-Fram Tough Guard 3614 or 3600 oil filters (I can hear the gasps from here).
Been flying these since the beginning.
-VDO oil pressure sending units. Not the one that came in the engine.
-NGK Iridium Spark Plugs DCPR8EIX. I flew from Alabama to Sun and Fun this
year, plus local flying. Performance seems to be about the same. I haven't
had a chance to see if they help performance or not, but will get a better
look at them on my flight to Oregon and back.
I have had good luck with the 912 series engines. I have been flying them
on my present airplane since 1994. After more than 3,200.0 hours I have
never had an engine failure. Wish I could have said that about the two
strokes I flew.
john h
mkIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
Hello. I have a 14 year old Rotax 912UL 80hp engine. When I powered up for a flight
last week the VDO oil pressure gauge was reading high off the scale. I pulled
the cowling and found that the wire had come loose from the sender. A non-aviation
mechanic friend and I managed to damage the sender so I order a new
VDO sender from Aircraft Spruce.
My IA was helping me with some upgrades on my Zodiac and he replaced the sender
today. When I powered up today the oil pressure gauge was still reading high,
135, but it was not off the scale. I shut down and powered up again and it read
120.
We are wondering if the VDO oil pressure gauge was affected by the earlier off
scale readings when the wire was broken. If so, will the gauge come back to normal
readings or should I buy a new VDO oil pressure gauge and see if that fixes
the problem? Thanks.
Regards,
Damien Grtaham
N48TK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Sandul <asandul(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
Had the same problem and I had ordered the 5 bar sender and not 10 bar sender.
They will exchange if that is the problem.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 16, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Damien Graham wrote:
>
>
> Hello. I have a 14 year old Rotax 912UL 80hp engine. When I powered up for a
flight last week the VDO oil pressure gauge was reading high off the scale. I
pulled the cowling and found that the wire had come loose from the sender. A non-aviation
mechanic friend and I managed to damage the sender so I order a new
VDO sender from Aircraft Spruce.
> My IA was helping me with some upgrades on my Zodiac and he replaced the sender
today. When I powered up today the oil pressure gauge was still reading high,
135, but it was not off the scale. I shut down and powered up again and it
read 120.
> We are wondering if the VDO oil pressure gauge was affected by the earlier off
scale readings when the wire was broken. If so, will the gauge come back to
normal readings or should I buy a new VDO oil pressure gauge and see if that fixes
the problem? Thanks.
> Regards,
> Damien Grtaham
> N48TK
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
| From: | Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
Thanks very much.
Regards,
Damien
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 16, 2014, at 7:02 PM, Alan Sandul wrote:
>
>
> Had the same problem and I had ordered the 5 bar sender and not 10 bar sender.
They will exchange if that is the problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 16, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Damien Graham wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello. I have a 14 year old Rotax 912UL 80hp engine. When I powered up for a
flight last week the VDO oil pressure gauge was reading high off the scale. I
pulled the cowling and found that the wire had come loose from the sender. A
non-aviation mechanic friend and I managed to damage the sender so I order a new
VDO sender from Aircraft Spruce.
>> My IA was helping me with some upgrades on my Zodiac and he replaced the sender
today. When I powered up today the oil pressure gauge was still reading high,
135, but it was not off the scale. I shut down and powered up again and it
read 120.
>> We are wondering if the VDO oil pressure gauge was affected by the earlier off
scale readings when the wire was broken. If so, will the gauge come back to
normal readings or should I buy a new VDO oil pressure gauge and see if that
fixes the problem? Thanks.
>> Regards,
>> Damien Grtaham
>> N48TK
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
I think "bar 5" or "bar 10" is stamped on the side of the sensor's hex nut.
-- Craig
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Damien Graham
wrote:
> dgraham7(at)twcny.rr.com>
>
> Thanks very much.
> Regards,
> Damien
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Aug 16, 2014, at 7:02 PM, Alan Sandul wrote:
> >
> >
> > Had the same problem and I had ordered the 5 bar sender and not 10 bar
> sender. They will exchange if that is the problem.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Aug 16, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Damien Graham
> wrote:
> >>
> dgraham7(at)twcny.rr.com>
> >>
> >> Hello. I have a 14 year old Rotax 912UL 80hp engine. When I powered up
> for a flight last week the VDO oil pressure gauge was reading high off the
> scale. I pulled the cowling and found that the wire had come loose from the
> sender. A non-aviation mechanic friend and I managed to damage the sender
> so I order a new VDO sender from Aircraft Spruce.
> >> My IA was helping me with some upgrades on my Zodiac and he replaced
> the sender today. When I powered up today the oil pressure gauge was still
> reading high, 135, but it was not off the scale. I shut down and powered up
> again and it read 120.
> >> We are wondering if the VDO oil pressure gauge was affected by the
> earlier off scale readings when the wire was broken. If so, will the gauge
> come back to normal readings or should I buy a new VDO oil pressure gauge
> and see if that fixes the problem? Thanks.
> >> Regards,
> >> Damien Grtaham
> >> N48TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
You need a gauge to go up to at least 100 psi. The max oil pressure can be up to
72 psi.
If the oil pressure sender has something on the threads it won't ground properly.
Make sure all your grounds are tight because this will cause this type of issue.
Senders are more often at fault than the gauge itself by a long shot.
Before you do anything put a mechanical gauge on the oil system to check the real
pressure. This can be done down at the sender. Usually the port right in front
of the oil pressure sender can be used. It is only plugged off with a screw.
It is a 1/8"x27 NPT. You can use an inexpensive gauge of 100 psi from Ace Hardware.
If you have the old style oil pressure regulator ball-bearing this migh
be adding to your problems. Even if you don't get the extended TBO it is worth
spending the $75 and ten minutes to install it.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428603#428603
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
| From: | Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
Thanks Roger. I always appreciate your advice.
Regards,
Damien
On Aug 17, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Roger Lee wrote:
>
> You need a gauge to go up to at least 100 psi. The max oil pressure can be up
to 72 psi.
> If the oil pressure sender has something on the threads it won't ground properly.
Make sure all your grounds are tight because this will cause this type of
issue. Senders are more often at fault than the gauge itself by a long shot.
> Before you do anything put a mechanical gauge on the oil system to check the
real pressure. This can be done down at the sender. Usually the port right in
front of the oil pressure sender can be used. It is only plugged off with a screw.
It is a 1/8"x27 NPT. You can use an inexpensive gauge of 100 psi from Ace
Hardware. If you have the old style oil pressure regulator ball-bearing this
migh be adding to your problems. Even if you don't get the extended TBO it is
worth spending the $75 and ten minutes to install it.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428603#428603
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
Thanks Craig. I found the 10 bar stamp on the original sender. I will
order the correct replacement. Thanks again.
Regards,
Damien
On Aug 16, 2014, at 8:27 PM, Craig Payne wrote:
> I think "bar 5" or "bar 10" is stamped on the side of the sensor's hex
nut.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Damien Graham
wrote:
>
> Thanks very much.
> Regards,
> Damien
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Aug 16, 2014, at 7:02 PM, Alan Sandul wrote:
> >
> >
> > Had the same problem and I had ordered the 5 bar sender and not 10
bar sender. They will exchange if that is the problem.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Aug 16, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Damien Graham
wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello. I have a 14 year old Rotax 912UL 80hp engine. When I powered
up for a flight last week the VDO oil pressure gauge was reading high
off the scale. I pulled the cowling and found that the wire had come
loose from the sender. A non-aviation mechanic friend and I managed to
damage the sender so I order a new VDO sender from Aircraft Spruce.
> >> My IA was helping me with some upgrades on my Zodiac and he
replaced the sender today. When I powered up today the oil pressure
gauge was still reading high, 135, but it was not off the scale. I shut
down and powered up again and it read 120.
> >> We are wondering if the VDO oil pressure gauge was affected by the
earlier off scale readings when the wire was broken. If so, will the
gauge come back to normal readings or should I buy a new VDO oil
pressure gauge and see if that fixes the problem? Thanks.
> >> Regards,
> >> Damien Grtaham
> >> N48TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ==========
> -
> xEngines-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure on Rotax 912UL |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
NOT LIKELY!
Since your VDO sending unit is ELECTRIC and since the sending unit has ONLY
a low voltage and high voltage limit - Even it the real pressure increased
to 500 PSI the output of the sending unit STILL would be ONLY the max
allowed by the unit. Ergo, it would NOT damage the indicator gauge.
NOW! What you and the group should do is take Voltage reading Vs Pressure
indications. Post those readings to the group and PLOT the resultants...
Voltage Vs Pressure. Now, knowing those values you should be able to say:
X Voltage (Low End) = X Pressure, Y Voltage (Middle) = Y Pressure, Z
Voltage (High End) = Z Pressure and this would be Max Pressure readable by
the gauge.
Crazy question: Is there a manual for the unit which gives a check value?
I also noticed there are a few different sending units... Which unit do
you have? Which did you replace it with? Here is a unit that reads from a
Low of 11.4 PSI to a high of 150 PSI.
NOW! This unit even give a resistance value of 0 to 180 Ohms. You can
either read the output voltage across the sending unit or remove the wires
and read the resistance.
But, the question is WHY is the pressure dropping each time? COLD oil will
cause high oil pressures and as the oil temp increases the pressure will
drop.
Is that what you are seeing?
Barry
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Damien Graham
wrote:
> dgraham7(at)twcny.rr.com>
>
> Hello. I have a 14 year old Rotax 912UL 80hp engine. When I powered up for
> a flight last week the VDO oil pressure gauge was reading high off the
> scale. I pulled the cowling and found that the wire had come loose from the
> sender. A non-aviation mechanic friend and I managed to damage the sender
> so I order a new VDO sender from Aircraft Spruce.
> My IA was helping me with some upgrades on my Zodiac and he replaced the
> sender today. When I powered up today the oil pressure gauge was still
> reading high, 135, but it was not off the scale. I shut down and powered up
> again and it read 120.
> We are wondering if the VDO oil pressure gauge was affected by the earlier
> off scale readings when the wire was broken. If so, will the gauge come
> back to normal readings or should I buy a new VDO oil pressure gauge and
> see if that fixes the problem? Thanks.
> Regards,
> Damien Grtaham
> N48TK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle(at)hotmail.com> |
Doug,
Your descriptions read as if I had written them myself, therefore I was very eager
to read to the bottom and see your eventual solution, but I found... NOTHING!
Did you ever solve your problem? I have not.
My early model Rotax 912UL with Bing 64 carbs runs very smooth up to 3500 RPM
but after that it stumbles/vibrates so badly that it looses power and refuses
to push through 4100. but when I pull carb-heat it immediately smooths out and
allows me to push it to 4300 RPMs for short periods before falling off dramatically.
With the carb-heat "solution" I too came to the early opinion that I was
running lean.
But I have one significant difference from yours: my plugs are so sooty black they
foul about every third flight when I change them. Which leads me to think
our identical problems are not plug or fuel related.
(I had been running rich plugs to attempt to balance my white #4 cylinder plug
due to a factory recognized poor design of the intake header. I have since changed
my strategy but that is another issue).
I have torn apart my fuel system from one end to the other, cleaned carbs, checked
jets, replaced seals and vitnum tipped needles, reset float levels, changed
plugs and adjusted plug gaps many times, re-attached the plug wires in their
seats and boots, etc. etc.
Each time I spend days messing with it until I seem to have solved the problem,
go for a few flights before the problem comes back, first small vibrations at
the higher end, then more significant vibrations and at progressively lower RPMs
until it becomes unflyable again. This has gone on for three years and has
greatly mangled my enthusiasm for flying as it keeps me circling my private strip
in frustration.
Speculations:
Recently I had a loose alternator belt on my truck and the engine started to loose
power and run very poorly but it continued to run at low RPMs.
I tightened the belt and solved my problem.
It got me to thinking that I may be having a similar problem with my magnetos.
This is so recent a thought that I have not yet began to explore how to check
my mags when the engine won't run in the region that needs testing.
Then I found your thread here.
PLEASE tell me you finally figured out the actual solution but failed to post it
here! I am very, very interested.
- Kyle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428766#428766
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
My first flight to Alaska in 1994, my 912 had a similar problem.
Eventually raised the fuel needles one notch and corrected the problem.
Seems the old 80 horse is really sensitive to lean conditions at midrange.
The way I eventually discovered the fix was pulling the enricher full on
during flight at about 4,200 rpm. The engine gained 200 rpm.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kyle
Ponsford
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:07 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above
-->
Doug,
Your descriptions read as if I had written them myself, therefore I was very
eager to read to the bottom and see your eventual solution, but I found...
NOTHING!
Did you ever solve your problem? I have not.
My early model Rotax 912UL with Bing 64 carbs runs very smooth up to 3500
RPM but after that it stumbles/vibrates so badly that it looses power and
refuses to push through 4100. but when I pull carb-heat it immediately
smooths out and allows me to push it to 4300 RPMs for short periods before
falling off dramatically. With the carb-heat "solution" I too came to the
early opinion that I was running lean.
But I have one significant difference from yours: my plugs are so sooty
black they foul about every third flight when I change them. Which leads me
to think our identical problems are not plug or fuel related.
(I had been running rich plugs to attempt to balance my white #4 cylinder
plug due to a factory recognized poor design of the intake header. I have
since changed my strategy but that is another issue).
I have torn apart my fuel system from one end to the other, cleaned carbs,
checked jets, replaced seals and vitnum tipped needles, reset float levels,
changed plugs and adjusted plug gaps many times, re-attached the plug wires
in their seats and boots, etc. etc.
Each time I spend days messing with it until I seem to have solved the
problem, go for a few flights before the problem comes back, first small
vibrations at the higher end, then more significant vibrations and at
progressively lower RPMs until it becomes unflyable again. This has gone on
for three years and has greatly mangled my enthusiasm for flying as it keeps
me circling my private strip in frustration.
Speculations:
Recently I had a loose alternator belt on my truck and the engine started to
loose power and run very poorly but it continued to run at low RPMs.
I tightened the belt and solved my problem.
It got me to thinking that I may be having a similar problem with my
magnetos. This is so recent a thought that I have not yet began to explore
how to check my mags when the engine won't run in the region that needs
testing.
Then I found your thread here.
PLEASE tell me you finally figured out the actual solution but failed to
post it here! I am very, very interested.
- Kyle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428766#428766
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=B3hann_Gestur_J=C3=B3hannsson?= <joeing701(at)simnet.is> |
Hello Kyle.
My friend had the exact same problem you have. He had been messing with his Rotax
912 ul engine since he bought it. Same as your experiance, seemed to have solved
it but the rough running always came back. Finally he found the problem.
The Stator was the original part and had been a recallmon that part, but it had
not been replaced at the correct time.
So my advice is to replace the stator. You can find the recall information from
the Rotax on the stator.
Hope this helps,
Johann G.
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 19, 2014, at 5:06 PM, "kyle Ponsford" wrote:
>
>
> Doug,
> Your descriptions read as if I had written them myself, therefore I was very
eager to read to the bottom and see your eventual solution, but I found... NOTHING!
> Did you ever solve your problem? I have not.
>
> My early model Rotax 912UL with Bing 64 carbs runs very smooth up to 3500 RPM
but after that it stumbles/vibrates so badly that it looses power and refuses
to push through 4100. but when I pull carb-heat it immediately smooths out and
allows me to push it to 4300 RPMs for short periods before falling off dramatically.
With the carb-heat "solution" I too came to the early opinion that I
was running lean.
> But I have one significant difference from yours: my plugs are so sooty black
they foul about every third flight when I change them. Which leads me to think
our identical problems are not plug or fuel related.
> (I had been running rich plugs to attempt to balance my white #4 cylinder plug
due to a factory recognized poor design of the intake header. I have since changed
my strategy but that is another issue).
>
> I have torn apart my fuel system from one end to the other, cleaned carbs, checked
jets, replaced seals and vitnum tipped needles, reset float levels, changed
plugs and adjusted plug gaps many times, re-attached the plug wires in their
seats and boots, etc. etc.
> Each time I spend days messing with it until I seem to have solved the problem,
go for a few flights before the problem comes back, first small vibrations
at the higher end, then more significant vibrations and at progressively lower
RPMs until it becomes unflyable again. This has gone on for three years and has
greatly mangled my enthusiasm for flying as it keeps me circling my private
strip in frustration.
>
> Speculations:
> Recently I had a loose alternator belt on my truck and the engine started to
loose power and run very poorly but it continued to run at low RPMs.
> I tightened the belt and solved my problem.
> It got me to thinking that I may be having a similar problem with my magnetos.
This is so recent a thought that I have not yet began to explore how to check
my mags when the engine won't run in the region that needs testing.
> Then I found your thread here.
> PLEASE tell me you finally figured out the actual solution but failed to post
it here! I am very, very interested.
>
> - Kyle
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428766#428766
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle(at)hotmail.com> |
Johann G.,
I am grateful for your information/suggestion and will tackle that idea immediately!
Thanks,
- Kyle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428799#428799
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Re: rough running at 3400 RPM |
and above
Kyle, I'm not sure if I'm the Doug you are referring to or not but I had a
similar issue with my engine when I first started running it on my plane an
d the issue was the chokes were not closed completely.- At higher RPM, sa
y 3400 RPM and higher, the enrichener/choke circuit acts like an airbleed i
nto the intake system which causes a lean stumble (thus why carb heat helps
).- As for the rich indications on the-plugs, I have no idea but first
step is make sure your enricher circuit is absolutely closed after the engi
ne starts.=0A=0ADoug M=0ACH-701/ Rotax 912UL=0A=0A =0A=0A__________________
List: Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above=0AFrom: "kyle Ponsford" <wild
_kyle(at)hotmail.com>=0A=0A=0ADoug,=0AYour descriptions read as if I had writt
en them myself, therefore I was very eager=0Ato read to the bottom and see
your eventual solution, but I found... NOTHING!=0ADid you ever solve your p
roblem? I have not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "vernon mitchell" <vernon11(at)xsinet.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
Kyle.
I might have missed something, but have you had the carbs balanced. I
had all sorts of drama, until the carbs were balanced.
Good luck.
Vernon.
South Africa.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:22 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above
>
>
> Johann G.,
> I am grateful for your information/suggestion and will tackle that idea
> immediately!
> Thanks,
> - Kyle
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428799#428799
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | If you're curious about flying cross-countries... |
I'll be giving a Webinar on Wednesday, Aug. 27 @ 5:00 p.m. Pacific Daylight
Time. It's titled Pushing Your Limits: Tips for Flying Long Cross Country
Flights, and it's based on the numerous long cross country flights I've mad
e. (Lots of photos!).=0A=0AIt's sponsored by EAA, but you don't need to be
an EAA member to register. And...it's free!!!=0A=0ATo "attend" the Webinar,
you need audio speakers on your computer and a broadband connection.=0A=0A
=0AIf you're interested, attached is the Webinar registration.=C2-=0A=0AA
rty Trost=0ASandy, Oregon=0A=0A=C2-=0Awww.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladvent
ure2009.htm=0A=0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"=0A=0AHelen Keller
=0A=0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AEAA Webinars=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0ACheck
out our upcoming webinars =C2- : : =C2- View this email online =0A=C2
- =0A =C2-=0AEAA Webinars Schedule=0AWe've announced our August -
September webinars that you can enjoy from the comfort of your home. EAA W
ebinars are free to all aviation enthusiasts, but pre-registration is recom
mended since space is limited to the first 1,000 registrants. =0AUpcoming w
ebinars include the following topics and presenters:=0A August 6 - 7 p.m. C
DT =0AHow to Get Your Own Aerobatic Practice Area=0APresenter: Darren Pleas
=0AKeeping Flying Affordable=0APresenter: Scott Sky Smith=0A=0AAugust 27 -
=0AFAA AMT & Wings Credit=0APresenter: Mike Busch =0A=0ASeptember 10 - 7 p.
=0APresenter: Michael Combs =0A=C2- =C2- =C2- =0A=C2-=0ARegister
todayfor these upcoming free webinars! =0A=0A=0AAudio speakers and a broadb
and Internet connection are required to participate in the webinars. Visit
the webinars page for more information about EAA=99s Webinars. =0A=0A
________________________________=0A =0A=C2-=0AEAA gratefully acknowledges
the support of Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co. for their generous sponso
rship of our webinar programs. =0A=C2-=0A Member Benefits : : Join EA
A : : Support EAA : : EAA.org =0ATo make sure you continue receiving our e
mails to your inbox (not bulk or junk folders), =0Aplease add membership@ea
a.org to your address book or safe sender list. =0A=C2-=0AThis message w
as sent to webinars(at)eaa.org =0AIt was sent from: Experimental Aircraft Asso
ciation, Inc. 3000 Poberezny Road, Oshkosh, WI 54902=0Amembership(at)eaa.org
=0A800-236-4800 :: 920-426-4800=0ACopyright 2013=0ADisclaimer/Privacy=C2-
Policy =0A=C2-=0AManage Your Subscription
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle(at)hotmail.com> |
Update:
Investigating the idea that my problem was the Stator, I was eventually led to
Lockwood Aviation in Sebring Florida and spoke to their technician named Kerry,
who, really impressed me with his knowledge and confidence in explaining, first;
that my Stator was fine, and second; what my problem was.
For those curious about both issues:
The stator has two functions; providing power to the magnetos, and charging the
battery. When it fails the first, the engine just quits. when it fails the second
the battery won't charge.
I have neither symptom.
Kerry convinced me that my entire problem was carburetor related. It seems that
Vernon (along with several others) are correct.
My "unsolvable" problem has been in a lack of understanding the distinction between
Synchronizing and Balancing when everyone seemed to use the words interchangeably,
such as sync/balance. So now that I know there is a difference, let
me explain for others, who, like me, are confused in thinking they are one in
the same.
I am familiar with syncing carbs on my snowmachine. Yes I have done this with my
airplane... several times. So, I was convinced that "Yes, I have done that,
thank you very much," ...but in fact, I had not balanced my carbs. It appears
that this is my problem. (I have sent Kerry my carbs for a complete "fresh start"
rebuild and will Post my results when I get them remounted and balanced).
So here is the short of synchronizing carbs: It is the adjustment of the throttle
cables to ensure that both carb slides open at the same amount at the same
time. I am very careful to do this as accurately as possible and after setting,
this should remain continuous until disconnecting the throttle cables for any
reason. To me, this is a "one time event," though in my desperation I have checked
and rechecked them and found them fine.
BUT: balancing carbs is adjusting the fuel screws between carbs so that they suck
the same. This takes a set of vacuum gauges or even a simple home-made set
of water bottles explained on youtube. This is something that needs regular rechecks
as it changes with vibration and such.
I confess, I have never balanced my carbs, but now intend to make this a regular
maintenance procedure.
As I said, I will post my results when I get my carbs back and reinstalled, but
at this point I am confident that I finally understand my problem,
perhaps this can help others too.
- Kyle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429123#429123
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | kerrimikehickman <kerrimikehickman(at)aol.com> |
=0ABalancing is great (I personally always referred to it as
'syncing' after 'adjusting' the idle/full throttle throws) but I
'm not a 912 mechanic either... =0AI'd recommend the Rotax-own
ers.com website for a wealth of information if you've not be
en there. =0AAlthough balancing can be accomplished many ways
I personally highly recommend the Carbmate. It made it so qu
ick and "stupid" easy I balance my carbs much more often w
hich has helped make a very noticeable difference in my 912
performance year-round. Costs $100 bucks but immeasurably worth
in to me.=0AMike=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: kyle Ponsford
=0ATo: rotaxengines-list =0ASent: Fri, Aug 22, 2014 12:43 pm=0ASubject: RotaxEngine
s-List: Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above=0A=0A=0A--> Ro
taxEngines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford" =0A=0AUpdate:=0AInvestigating the idea that my problem was t
he Stator, I was eventually led to =0ALockwood Aviation in S
ebring Florida and spoke to their technician named Kerry, =0Aw
ho, really impressed me with his knowledge and confidence in
explaining, first; =0Athat my Stator was fine, and second; wha
t my problem was.=0A=0AFor those curious about both issues:=0ATh
e stator has two functions; providing power to the magnetos,
and charging the =0Abattery. When it fails the first, the en
gine just quits. when it fails the =0Asecond the battery won
't charge.=0AI have neither symptom.=0A=0AKerry convinced me that
my entire problem was carburetor related. It seems that =0AVer
non (along with several others) are correct.=0AMy "unsolvable" p
roblem has been in a lack of understanding the distinction =0A
between Synchronizing and Balancing when everyone seemed to use
the words =0Ainterchangeably, such as sync/balance. So now that
I know there is a difference, =0Alet me explain for others,
who, like me, are confused in thinking they are one =0Ain
the same.=0A=0AI am familiar with syncing carbs on my snowmach
ine. Yes I have done this with my =0Aairplane... several tim
es. So, I was convinced that "Yes, I have done that, =0Ath
ank you very much," ...but in fact, I had not balanced my
carbs. It appears =0Athat this is my problem. (I have sent
Kerry my carbs for a complete "fresh =0Astart" rebuild and w
ill Post my results when I get them remounted and balanced).
=0A=0ASo here is the short of synchronizing carbs: It is the
adjustment of the =0Athrottle cables to ensure that both ca
rb slides open at the same amount at the =0Asame time. I
am very careful to do this as accurately as possible and a
fter =0Asetting, this should remain continuous until disconnecting
the throttle cables =0Afor any reason. To me, this is a
"one time event," though in my desperation I =0Ahave checked
and rechecked them and found them fine.=0A=0ABUT: balancing carb
s is adjusting the fuel screws between carbs so that they
=0Asuck the same. This takes a set of vacuum gauges or eve
n a simple home-made set =0Aof water bottles explained on yo
utube. This is something that needs regular =0Arechecks as it
changes with vibration and such.=0AI confess, I have never bal
anced my carbs, but now intend to make this a regular =0Am
aintenance procedure.=0A=0AAs I said, I will post my results w
hen I get my carbs back and reinstalled, but =0Aat this po
int I am confident that I finally understand my problem,=0Aper
haps this can help others too.=0A=0A- Kyle=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this
topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429
===========================
===========================
===========================
-Matt Dralle
===========================
========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Invitation to my Webinar - and the Registration URL |
Hi folks -=0A=0AApparently the registration form I sent in my last e-mail d
idn't come through.=0A=0ASo...here is the URL to register. You do NOT need
to be an EAA member to register.- =0A=0A=0APUSHING YOUR LIMITS: Tips for
Flying Long Cross Country Flights=0A- =0A- - - - - =0APUSHING Y
OUR LIMITS: Tips for Flying Long Cross Country Flights=0APresenter: Arty Tr
ost Arty Trost has been flying two-cycle powered ultralights and ultralight
-type experimental aircraft for 25 years. She has taken cross county flying
to the extreme: for the past fifteen years she has made annual long distan
ce flights averaging 3-4 weeks and sev... =0AView on www2.gotomeeting.com
Preview by Yahoo =0A- =0A-=0A-Arty=0A=0A=0Awww.LessonsFromTheEdge.co
m/uladventure2009.htm=0A=0A=0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"=0AHele
n Keller=0A=0A=0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at
death."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Even though the Carbmate and Syncromate can split a hair what they can't do at
all is diagnose several carb problems at a glance or just by looking can't tell
you which carb to adjust, which way and by approximately how much. They can't
tell you if the cable needs to be lengthened or shortened at the throttle arm,
but only that they are out of sync.
They do work well, but after you disconnect the electronic device and hook the
carbs back up the hair splitting is gone.
I think the analog gauges still hold a distinct advantage over the electronic balancer's
and in many Rotax classes we have come to the same conclusion.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429192#429192
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | "JohnF" <n29cx(at)ridgeviewtel.us> |
Roger, why don't you out together a kit of the gauges you use and offer it for
sale? I'd probably buy one
johnwf
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429194#429194
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
All applicable kudos to Roger if he does decide to produce a gauge set for
syncing 912/914 carbs but it would be a redundant product.- Lockwood sell
s a very nice analog gauge set with applicable hoses, valves, and fittings
for about $90.00.- I purchased one about five years ago and have used it
several times.=0A=0Ahttp://www.lockwood.aero/p-2586-carb-synchronization-ki
ect: RotaxEngines-List: Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above=0AFrom: "Jo
hnF" =0A=0A=0ARoger, why don't you out together a ki
t of the gauges you use and offer it for=0Asale?- I'd probably buy one=0A
johnwf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Gauges are all over the market as some have pointed out. All you need is 2 vacuum
gauges that go from 0 to 30 in. I prefer liquid filled gauges.Buy some vacuum
tubing from the auto store or Ace Hardware )about 10'), buy two needle valves
from Ace (install them about 6" from the gauges) and then buy a 3/8" barbed
fitting and reducers to fit the small vacuum tube (sand off the barbs so it is
smooth), then get a 6" piece of poly tubing to fit on the other vacuum tube.
When you sync the carbs push off the left or right side rubber hose that is on
the carb balance tube. Now the carbs are separated. Then put the smooth brass
end in the rubber hose and slide the poly hose over the 90 degree fitting on top
of the air intake.
Start your engines!
p.s.
The clear hose in the picture is for demo and it should be regular vacuum hose.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429205#429205
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/carb_sync_150_169.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ollie Washburn <ollies7s(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rough running at 3400 RPM and above |
And the best thing I have found to use is a twin engine manifold press. gage.
Ollie
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 23, 2014, at 8:18 PM, "Roger Lee" wrote:
>
>
> Even though the Carbmate and Syncromate can split a hair what they can't do at
all is diagnose several carb problems at a glance or just by looking can't tell
you which carb to adjust, which way and by approximately how much. They can't
tell you if the cable needs to be lengthened or shortened at the throttle
arm, but only that they are out of sync.
>
> They do work well, but after you disconnect the electronic device and hook the
carbs back up the hair splitting is gone.
>
> I think the analog gauges still hold a distinct advantage over the electronic
balancer's and in many Rotax classes we have come to the same conclusion.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429192#429192
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vacuum gauge carb synch setup |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
After I completed Rotax training at Lockwood Aviation in the spring of 2007
I came home and built a setup just like the one that Lockwood sells. It
worked great except for one thing. The fuel valves used in the setup to
dampen the pulses in engine vacuum were just too coarse in adjustment.
Several times I accidentally closed the valve and didn't notice until I
made a cable adjustment and got no change in gauge reading.
Figuring I was going to be using these for the rest of my life, I sold the
first set on eBay and went looking for better gauges and valves. I found
everything at McMaster Carr. I bought 4" (my old eyes need all the help
they can get and I don't have to worry about my glasses getting blown off
in the prop blast) stainless steel case glycerin filled gauges, p/n 38605K3
and needle valves p/n 4995K13. Let me warn you before you look them up
they're pricey. To make sure they were well protected I bought a nice case
from Harbor Freight p/n 69318 to protect them. The needle valves give me
precise control so I can adjust for about .2 in of wiggle in the needles. I
set them once and I can't remember ever adjusting them again.
Whatever you use in your vacuum gauge setup, two tips: Use at least 5 feet
of line to connect them to the engine. That gives you plenty of room to
keep the gauges out of the engine compartment and out of harm's way. Put a
union connection in the at the engine end. Not all engines take the same
size of hose to connect them to the intake manifold. The union allows you
to change out the ends quickly so you don't have to waste time improvising
if the owner is watching, or helping do the carb synch.
Rick Girard
- Trust those who seek, doubt those who find.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low RPM on Takeoff??? |
| From: | "tmitton" <tmitton99(at)gmail.com> |
Latest update...no change or improvement. Still WOT on ground of 5100 max.
- sent ignition modules back to Rotec in BC and received a 100% good/clean bill
of health.
- fixed intermittent ground through one "mag" switch
- cleaned low time plugs
- removed carbs and rubbers again, inspected up close under magnifying glass and
replaced them.
One carb seemed to be very slightly "wet" (seemed to be gas versus water condensation)
around the o-ring on outlet side rubber boot when disassembled. No obvious
cracks or flattened O-ring but new ones on order for replacement.
Next step: carbs going out to experts for inspection while we try new carbs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429423#429423
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AN fuel line fittings |
| From: | "frank3" <frank3phyl(at)comcast.net> |
Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on their fuel
or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that work out
for ya?
--------
Frank McDonald
Kitfox S7
912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
Acworth, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN fuel line fittings |
Lots of people do, indeed possibly most out there. I used them
throughout, my only question was whether to use aluminum of steel. I
used steel and brass on fuel, and used steel on a couple of the oil
lines; the rest aluminum. Hope it works, as I'm not quite flying yet.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 9/4/2014 3:00 PM, frank3 wrote:
>
> Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on their fuel
or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that work
out for ya?
>
> --------
> Frank McDonald
> Kitfox S7
> 912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
> Acworth, GA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | AN fuel line fittings |
Hello Guy,
One problem with brass is that it may corrode in such a way to block your
small orifices- although I think that with fuel it would be ok. The reason
for this is that brass will corrode in the presence of water (as do other
metals, but I have noticed that brass will do that in a pain in the arse way
in particular situations). Because you are using brass in your fuel lines
it shouldn't be a problem- except where you have small orifices.
But it looks as if you have that figured out.
Johannesburg Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HH Enterprises
* Aircraft assembly, repair, wiring and avionics
* Flight instruction
* General and Electrical Engineering services
(NHD Elec Eng, BTech Elec Eng, GDE ELec Eng)
* Great dinner parties and conversation
* General adventuring, climbing, kayaking and living
Blog: <http://www.rawhyde.wordpress.com/> www.rawhyde.wordpress.com
Cel: 083 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Buchanan
Sent: 05 September 2014 02:45 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: AN fuel line fittings
Lots of people do, indeed possibly most out there. I used them throughout,
my only question was whether to use aluminum of steel. I used steel and
brass on fuel, and used steel on a couple of the oil lines; the rest
aluminum. Hope it works, as I'm not quite flying yet.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 9/4/2014 3:00 PM, frank3 wrote:
Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on their
fuel or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that
work out for ya?
--------
Frank McDonald
Kitfox S7
912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
Acworth, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Maxwell <DonMaxwell(at)abstractconcreteworks.com> |
| Subject: | Bad Carburetor Floats |
Has anyone heard recently of new Rotax four-stroke engines with faulty
carburetor floats?
I'm curious because I know of three brand new engines--one 912ULS, two
914UL--that have had multiple floats fill with gasoline and sink within
the first 50 hours of operation in new airplanes. Each of these engines
has had at least two bad floats and one had 3 of 4. I don't know the
engine serial numbers, but all three engines are on brand new,
factory-fresh S-LSA Seareys, all produced within a few weeks of each other.
The sunken floats caused flooding in all three engines--so severe that
the engine wouldn't run at low throttle settings and soon the 914s
wouldn't run at all with either fuel pump on. One owner had to make an
emergency landing by turning the fuel pumps off until the engine
stumbled and then switching one on just long enough to get it running
again.
One of the 914s had fuel staining in an air box drain hose. Fuel was
discovered running from the 912 carburetor vent while burping the engine
during preflight.
Lockwood is assisting the owners, and one hopes that by now Rotax has
been informed.
But The Question is: How many more bad floats are in service?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bad Carburetor Floats |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
I haven't heard of any sudden failed in floats on new planes. That said it is possible
Bing got a bad batch. It is the outside coating on the float that seals
the airy foam inside from the fuel. If the outside gets a hole then fuel can
enter the inside of the float.
The floats and carbs are made by Bing here in the US. I have seen sunken floats,
but it isn't that common. I did just have a bad float on an RV12 with 60 hrs.
Symptoms are fuel smell and fuel coming out the vent. If you suspect a bad float
by a rough running engine and fuel venting then just pop the bowl off and
look at the floats in the fuel. The pins that stick out the side of the float
should be equal to the fuel level. If the float is bad that pin and float will
be down under the fuel level. These are covered by warranty if you are still
under your warranty.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430059#430059
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN fuel line fittings |
Thankfully the brass parts are limited to 3/8" openings and I don't plan
on running alcohol fuel, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Guy
On 9/5/2014 2:47 AM, Jay Hyde wrote:
>
> Hello Guy,
>
> One problem with brass is that it may corrode in such a way to block
> your small orifices- although I think that with fuel it would be ok.
> The reason for this is that brass will corrode in the presence of
> water (as do other metals, but I have noticed that brass will do that
> in a pain in the arse way in particular situations). Because you are
> using brass in your fuel lines it shouldnt be a problem- except where
> you have small orifices.
>
> But it looks as if you have that figured out
>
> Johannesburg Jay
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> *HH Enterprises ***
>
> * Aircraft assembly, repair, wiring and avionics
> * Flight instruction
> * General and Electrical Engineering services
>
> (NHD Elec Eng, BTech Elec Eng, GDE ELec Eng)
>
> * Great dinner parties and conversation
> * General adventuring, climbing, kayaking and living
>
> Blog: www.rawhyde.wordpress.com <http://www.rawhyde.wordpress.com/>
>
> Cel: 083 300 8675
>
> Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> *From:*owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Guy Buchanan
> *Sent:* 05 September 2014 02:45 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: AN fuel line fittings
>
> Lots of people do, indeed possibly most out there. I used them
> throughout, my only question was whether to use aluminum of steel. I
> used steel and brass on fuel, and used steel on a couple of the oil
> lines; the rest aluminum. Hope it works, as I'm not quite flying yet.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
> On 9/4/2014 3:00 PM, frank3 wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on their
fuel or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that work
out for ya?
>
>
>
> --------
>
> Frank McDonald
>
> Kitfox S7
>
> 912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
>
> Acworth, GA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Carburetor Floats |
Sounds like having one or two in the repair kit might not be a bad idea.
Speaking of which, what 912 spares do you guys generally carry? I was
thinking:
* Float
* Needle
* Fuel filter
* Spark plug(s)
* 1 qt. oil
Can't think of anything else. Carb boot?
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 9/5/2014 7:08 AM, Don Maxwell wrote:
> Has anyone heard recently of new Rotax four-stroke engines with faulty
> carburetor floats?
>
> I'm curious because I know of three brand new engines--one 912ULS, two
> 914UL--that have had multiple floats fill with gasoline and sink
> within the first 50 hours of operation in new airplanes. Each of these
> engines has had at least two bad floats and one had 3 of 4. I don't
> know the engine serial numbers, but all three engines are on brand
> new, factory-fresh S-LSA Seareys, all produced within a few weeks of
> each other.
>
> The sunken floats caused flooding in all three engines--so severe that
> the engine wouldn't run at low throttle settings and soon the 914s
> wouldn't run at all with either fuel pump on. One owner had to make
> an emergency landing by turning the fuel pumps off until the engine
> stumbled and then switching one on just long enough to get it running
> again.
>
> One of the 914s had fuel staining in an air box drain hose. Fuel was
> discovered running from the 912 carburetor vent while burping the
> engine during preflight.
>
> Lockwood is assisting the owners, and one hopes that by now Rotax has
> been informed.
>
> But The Question is: How many more bad floats are in service?
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bad Carburetor Floats |
| From: | Gale Derosier <kgderosier(at)gmail.com> |
With a Rotax you could go all the way to Alaska and back without using any
oil. There is virtually no oil consumption on the road tax per Lockwood at
Oshkosh.
On Sep 5, 2014 1:50 PM, "Guy Buchanan" wrote:
> Sounds like having one or two in the repair kit might not be a bad idea.
> Speaking of which, what 912 spares do you guys generally carry? I was
> thinking:
>
> - Float
> - Needle
> - Fuel filter
> - Spark plug(s)
> - 1 qt. oil
>
> Can't think of anything else. Carb boot?
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
> On 9/5/2014 7:08 AM, Don Maxwell wrote:
>
> Has anyone heard recently of new Rotax four-stroke engines with faulty
> carburetor floats?
>
> I'm curious because I know of three brand new engines--one 912ULS, two
> 914UL--that have had multiple floats fill with gasoline and sink within the
> first 50 hours of operation in new airplanes. Each of these engines has had
> at least two bad floats and one had 3 of 4. I don't know the engine serial
> numbers, but all three engines are on brand new, factory-fresh S-LSA
> Seareys, all produced within a few weeks of each other.
>
> The sunken floats caused flooding in all three engines--so severe that the
> engine wouldn't run at low throttle settings and soon the 914s wouldn't run
> at all with either fuel pump on. One owner had to make an emergency
> landing by turning the fuel pumps off until the engine stumbled and then
> switching one on just long enough to get it running again.
>
> One of the 914s had fuel staining in an air box drain hose. Fuel was
> discovered running from the 912 carburetor vent while burping the engine
> during preflight.
>
> Lockwood is assisting the owners, and one hopes that by now Rotax has been
> informed.
>
> But The Question is: How many more bad floats are in service?
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AN fuel line fittings |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Jay & Gaggle:
Brass does not corrode. It can oxidize the same as aluminum, forming Brass
Oxide. As for small orifices - There should NOT be any small orifices in a
fuel system. There is a simple and basic requirement that the fuel line
have a diameter large enough to supply twice the full power hourly fuel
flow of the engine under a gravity feed system. Now, there are BRASS
nozzles used on many Lycoming & Continental engines for the Primer Lines
which are quite small. In the range of 0.060" Diameter. So, once again
orifice size in not an issue. MANY carburetors use brass nozzles and valve
seats internally - So, once again orifice size in not an issue.
Sorry Jay, your information is not correct.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Jay Hyde wrote:
> Hello Guy,
>
> One problem with brass is that it may corrode in such a way to block your
> small orifices- although I think that with fuel it would be ok. The reason
> for this is that brass will corrode in the presence of water (as do other
> metals, but I have noticed that brass will do that in a pain in the arse
> way in particular situations). Because you are using brass in your fuel
> lines it shouldn't be a problem- except where you have small orifices.
>
> But it looks as if you have that figured out...
>
> Johannesburg Jay
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> *HH Enterprises *
>
> - Aircraft assembly, repair, wiring and avionics
> - Flight instruction
> - General and Electrical Engineering services
>
> (NHD Elec Eng, BTech Elec Eng, GDE ELec Eng)
>
> - Great dinner parties and conversation
> - General adventuring, climbing, kayaking and living
>
>
> Blog: www.rawhyde.wordpress.com
>
> Cel: 083 300 8675
>
> Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Guy Buchanan
> *Sent:* 05 September 2014 02:45 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: AN fuel line fittings
>
>
> Lots of people do, indeed possibly most out there. I used them throughout,
> my only question was whether to use aluminum of steel. I used steel and
> brass on fuel, and used steel on a couple of the oil lines; the rest
> aluminum. Hope it works, as I'm not quite flying yet.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
> On 9/4/2014 3:00 PM, frank3 wrote:
>
>
> Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on their fuel
or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that work
out for ya?
>
>
> --------
>
> Frank McDonald
>
> Kitfox S7
>
> 912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
>
> Acworth, GA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN fuel line fittings |
I think I agree on the corrosion, unless it's electrolytic. As to the
orifices, there is one in the stock return line. Not sure what size it
is, but it is pretty small, certainly smaller than .06".
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 9/5/2014 11:59 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Hi Jay & Gaggle:
>
> Brass does not corrode. It can oxidize the same as aluminum, forming
> Brass Oxide. As for small orifices - There should NOT be any small
> orifices in a fuel system. There is a simple and basic requirement
> that the fuel line have a diameter large enough to supply twice the
> full power hourly fuel flow of the engine under a gravity feed system.
> Now, there are BRASS nozzles used on many Lycoming & Continental
> engines for the Primer Lines which are quite small. In the range of
> 0.060" Diameter. So, once again orifice size in not an issue. MANY
> carburetors use brass nozzles and valve seats internally - So, once
> again orifice size in not an issue.
> Sorry Jay, your information is not correct.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Jay Hyde > wrote:
>
> Hello Guy,
>
> One problem with brass is that it may corrode in such a way to
> block your small orifices- although I think that with fuel it
> would be ok. The reason for this is that brass will corrode in
> the presence of water (as do other metals, but I have noticed that
> brass will do that in a pain in the arse way in particular
> situations). Because you are using brass in your fuel lines it
> shouldnt be a problem- except where you have small orifices.
>
> But it looks as if you have that figured out
>
> Johannesburg Jay
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> *HH Enterprises ***
>
> * Aircraft assembly, repair, wiring and avionics
> * Flight instruction
> * General and Electrical Engineering services
>
> (NHD Elec Eng, BTech Elec Eng, GDE ELec Eng)
>
> * Great dinner parties and conversation
> * General adventuring, climbing, kayaking and living
>
> Blog: www.rawhyde.wordpress.com <http://www.rawhyde.wordpress.com/>
>
> Cel: 083 300 8675
>
> Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> *From:*owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *On Behalf
> Of *Guy Buchanan
> *Sent:* 05 September 2014 02:45 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: AN fuel line fittings
>
> Lots of people do, indeed possibly most out there. I used them
> throughout, my only question was whether to use aluminum of steel.
> I used steel and brass on fuel, and used steel on a couple of the
> oil lines; the rest aluminum. Hope it works, as I'm not quite
> flying yet.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
> On 9/4/2014 3:00 PM, frank3 wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on
their fuel or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that
work out for ya?
>
>
>
> --------
>
> Frank McDonald
>
> Kitfox S7
>
> 912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
>
> Acworth, GA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AN fuel line fittings |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Guy:
You cannot agree to the corrosion as it is nonexistent. Did you read my
post?
Just in case you missed it:-
Hi Jay & Gaggle:
Brass does not corrode. It can oxidize the same as aluminum, forming Brass
Oxide. As for small orifices - There should NOT be any small orifices in a
fuel system. There is a simple and basic requirement that the fuel line
have a diameter large enough to supply twice the full power hourly fuel
flow of the engine under a gravity feed system. Now, there are BRASS
nozzles used on many Lycoming & Continental engines for the Primer Lines
which are quite small. In the range of 0.060" Diameter. So, once again
orifice size in not an issue. MANY carburetors use brass nozzles and valve
seats internally - So, once again orifice size in not an issue.
Sorry Jay, your information is not correct.
Barry
========================
And if you wonder what my qualifications are for making my statements, I
was a QA Manager and Technical Sales Engineer for a metal coatings company
for 8 years and a QA Test Engineer for 20+ working years of my life. Add
to that the little fact about brass being used in carbs for decades you
will realize Jay in incorrect.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
> I think I agree on the corrosion, unless it's electrolytic. As to the
> orifices, there is one in the stock return line. Not sure what size it is,
> but it is pretty small, certainly smaller than .06".
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
> On 9/5/2014 11:59 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
> Hi Jay & Gaggle:
>
> Brass does not corrode. It can oxidize the same as aluminum, forming
> Brass Oxide. As for small orifices - There should NOT be any small
> orifices in a fuel system. There is a simple and basic requirement that
> the fuel line have a diameter large enough to supply twice the full power
> hourly fuel flow of the engine under a gravity feed system. Now, there are
> BRASS nozzles used on many Lycoming & Continental engines for the Primer
> Lines which are quite small. In the range of 0.060" Diameter. So, once
> again orifice size in not an issue. MANY carburetors use brass nozzles and
> valve seats internally - So, once again orifice size in not an issue.
> Sorry Jay, your information is not correct.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Jay Hyde wrote:
>
>> Hello Guy,
>>
>> One problem with brass is that it may corrode in such a way to block your
>> small orifices- although I think that with fuel it would be ok. The reason
>> for this is that brass will corrode in the presence of water (as do other
>> metals, but I have noticed that brass will do that in a pain in the arse
>> way in particular situations). Because you are using brass in your fuel
>> lines it shouldn't be a problem- except where you have small orifices.
>>
>> But it looks as if you have that figured out...
>>
>> Johannesburg Jay
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> *HH Enterprises *
>>
>> - Aircraft assembly, repair, wiring and avionics
>> - Flight instruction
>> - General and Electrical Engineering services
>>
>> (NHD Elec Eng, BTech Elec Eng, GDE ELec Eng)
>>
>> - Great dinner parties and conversation
>> - General adventuring, climbing, kayaking and living
>>
>>
>>
>> Blog: www.rawhyde.wordpress.com
>>
>> Cel: 083 300 8675
>>
>> Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Guy Buchanan
>> *Sent:* 05 September 2014 02:45 AM
>> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RotaxEngines-List: AN fuel line fittings
>>
>>
>>
>> Lots of people do, indeed possibly most out there. I used them
>> throughout, my only question was whether to use aluminum of steel. I used
>> steel and brass on fuel, and used steel on a couple of the oil lines; the
>> rest aluminum. Hope it works, as I'm not quite flying yet.
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> Ramona, CA
>> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
>> Now a glider pilot, too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/4/2014 3:00 PM, frank3 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on their
fuel or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that work
out for ya?
>>
>>
>>
>> --------
>>
>> Frank McDonald
>>
>> Kitfox S7
>>
>> 912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
>>
>> Acworth, GA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bad Carburetor Floats |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
If you look at the shear numbers of Rotax engines with Bing carbs on them then
any failure rate is very minuscule. They tend to hold up well for long periods.
I don't know of a single person that carries carb parts as spares.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430088#430088
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Carburetor Floats |
20 years ago I flew a 17,400.0 sm flight. I had a spare set of spark plugs
for my 912 80 hp. In 1993, there was no 912UL or ULS. I had 100 hours on
the oil when I got to North Pole, Alaska. Got the guys at Bradley Sky Ranch
to run me down to NAPA to pick up two qts of Mobile I and a Fram PH3614. I
dumped my spare qt of oil in the tank, and never carried any spare oil after
that. That was 3,000.0 plus hours and three 912's ago. On that flight I
flew 232.0 hours in 41 days. Averaged 8 hours per day for the 30 days I
actually flew. The only engine problem I had was occasional spark plug lead
fouling. When that happened, I would feel a periodic tapping in the
airframe. Next landing, pull the plugs, take my pen knife, clean out the
lead, put them back in and keep on flying. I was extremely impressed with
the 912 on that flight, and every long flight since then.
I did have a carb tuning problem that I encountered once I got up into BC
where the temps dropped on me. Didn't know it at the time, nor did any of
the Rotax experts from Eric Tucker right on down, what to do with me as I
sat weathered-in at Deadhorse, AK. Only on my return to Alabama, where I
had no fear of losing a carb part if I should be so club fisted, did I
finally solve my problem. On a flight down to Ronnie Smith's in Lucedale,
MS, I was flying with some slower ULs. Flying at about 4,200 rpm there was
a really rough spot. I don't know why, but I pulled on the enricher. The
engine picked up 200 rpm. Push off the enricher, the engine lost 200 rpm
and ran a rough again. When I landed I raised the fuel needles one notch.
That fixed my problem, a midrange, very lean condition. Never had that
problem with my 912ULS's. They have run great, right out of the box, hot or
cold weather.
Getting ready to fly from Alabama to my friends at the Rock House, near
Burns Junction, Oregon. Plan to depart first light Sunday morning, if I can
get up and get going that early. Route of flight is Sherman, TX, Clovis,
NM, Los Lunas, NM, Gallup, NM, Monument Valley, UT, Bryce Canyon, UT, Ely,
NV, Owyhee, NV, and finally the Rock House, OR. We are having our
annual/semi-annual Kolb (and any other airplane) Flyin. A bunch of us have
been getting together since 2003 when we had our first Monument Valley Kolb
Unplanned/Unorganized Flyin. Plan to RON Sherman, Los Lunas, MV, and Elko.
Give me a shout if you have time for a cup of coffee and I am in your neck
of the woods.
john hauck
Kolb MKIII
Titus, Alabama
334-315-2621
If you look at the shear numbers of Rotax engines with Bing carbs on them
then any failure rate is very minuscule. They tend to hold up well for long
periods. I don't know of a single person that carries carb parts as spares.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint.
Rated Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430088#430088
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk> |
| Subject: | AN fuel line fittings |
There are lots of small orifices in fuel systems. That's how carbs work.
(supplying fuel through small orifices). The standard Rotax fuel return
system uses a fuel return through a small orifice.
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: 06 September 2014 00:41
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: AN fuel line fittings
Guy:
You cannot agree to the corrosion as it is nonexistent. Did you read my
post?
Just in case you missed it:-
Hi Jay & Gaggle:
Brass does not corrode. It can oxidize the same as aluminum, forming Brass
Oxide. As for small orifices - There should NOT be any small orifices in a
fuel system. There is a simple and basic requirement that the fuel line
have a diameter large enough to supply twice the full power hourly fuel flow
of the engine under a gravity feed system. Now, there are BRASS nozzles
used on many Lycoming & Continental engines for the Primer Lines which are
quite small. In the range of 0.060" Diameter. So, once again orifice size
in not an issue. MANY carburetors use brass nozzles and valve seats
internally - So, once again orifice size in not an issue.
Sorry Jay, your information is not correct.
Barry
========================
And if you wonder what my qualifications are for making my statements, I was
a QA Manager and Technical Sales Engineer for a metal coatings company for 8
years and a QA Test Engineer for 20+ working years of my life. Add to that
the little fact about brass being used in carbs for decades you will realize
Jay in incorrect.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
I think I agree on the corrosion, unless it's electrolytic. As to the
orifices, there is one in the stock return line. Not sure what size it is,
but it is pretty small, certainly smaller than .06".
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 9/5/2014 11:59 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Hi Jay & Gaggle:
Brass does not corrode. It can oxidize the same as aluminum, forming Brass
Oxide. As for small orifices - There should NOT be any small orifices in a
fuel system. There is a simple and basic requirement that the fuel line
have a diameter large enough to supply twice the full power hourly fuel flow
of the engine under a gravity feed system. Now, there are BRASS nozzles
used on many Lycoming & Continental engines for the Primer Lines which are
quite small. In the range of 0.060" Diameter. So, once again orifice size
in not an issue. MANY carburetors use brass nozzles and valve seats
internally - So, once again orifice size in not an issue.
Sorry Jay, your information is not correct.
Barry
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Jay Hyde wrote:
Hello Guy,
One problem with brass is that it may corrode in such a way to block your
small orifices- although I think that with fuel it would be ok. The reason
for this is that brass will corrode in the presence of water (as do other
metals, but I have noticed that brass will do that in a pain in the arse way
in particular situations). Because you are using brass in your fuel lines
it shouldn't be a problem- except where you have small orifices.
But it looks as if you have that figured out.
Johannesburg Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HH Enterprises
* Aircraft assembly, repair, wiring and avionics
* Flight instruction
* General and Electrical Engineering services
(NHD Elec Eng, BTech Elec Eng, GDE ELec Eng)
* Great dinner parties and conversation
* General adventuring, climbing, kayaking and living
Blog: www.rawhyde.wordpress.com <http://www.rawhyde.wordpress.com/>
Cel: 083 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Buchanan
Sent: 05 September 2014 02:45 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: AN fuel line fittings
Lots of people do, indeed possibly most out there. I used them throughout,
my only question was whether to use aluminum of steel. I used steel and
brass on fuel, and used steel on a couple of the oil lines; the rest
aluminum. Hope it works, as I'm not quite flying yet.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 9/4/2014 3:00 PM, frank3 wrote:
Has any one gone to the trouble (and expense) of using AN fittings on their
fuel or oil lines, i.e. used Aeroquip or Stratoflex fittings? How'd that
work out for ya?
--------
Frank McDonald
Kitfox S7
912S, Sensenich Composite 3 Blade
Acworth, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430002#430002
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Katherine Martin" <dm3since1946(at)blomand.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 09/16/14 |
RotaxEngines-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete RotaxEngines-List Digest can also be found in
>either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
>formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
>version
> of the RotaxEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
>text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-09-16&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-09-16&Archive=RotaxEngines
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 09/16/14: 0
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | 912 Gearbox Sealant Loctite 5910 and 574 |
I need to seal the mating surfaces of the gearbox on my Rotax 912 UL
upon reassembly after a 700 hour disassemble and inspection. I am having
a real difficulty in finding the Rotax recommended Loctite 5910 in small
quantities for this. When I can find it, it is in tubes costing $50 (US)
per tube. I only need a very small quantity. Upon researching the
product I find it is an Oximine Silicone, thixotropic, oil resistant,
RTV paste. I can find Permatex Ultra Black at my local auto store which
is basically the same (an Oximine Silicone, thixotropic, oil resistant,
RTV paste). The cured properties of both appear to be the same.
Why must a Loctite product be used? Are there other equal products that
can be used? What are other mechanics using for this? Gearbox is back
and ready to be reinstalled.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912 UL
700 hours
N661WW
Ph. 704-661-8271
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 Gearbox Sealant Loctite 5910 and 574 |
My last 912ULS has had a leaky gearbox seal since shortly after I bought it. Tried
Loctite 5910, when Rotax changed to this sealant, but it still leaked a little.
Finally, found Permatex "The Right Stuff". It works. Cleaned the mating
surfaces with MEK. Made sure no oil was leaking from engine to contaminate
the sealing surfaces.
I also used The Right Stuff to seal the intake and exhaust push rod covers where
they entered the No. 1 cylinder head. Got the idea from someone who had a leaky
cover and did the same thing. Cleaned the joints with brake cleaner. Thoroughly
dried. Applied The Right Stuff in the joints, rubbed it in with my finger.
Let it dry for 24 hours. Hasn't leaked since, push rod covers or gear
box.
I am currently finishing up a 3 week flight from Alabama to Monument Valley, UT,
and up to friends in the SE corner of Oregon. Currently in El Dorado,KS. Another
two days to fly back to my home in Titus, AL. I have flown about 60.0
hours this trip and the engine is oil free. Sure is a good feeling to land, check
the engine, and not see oil seepage.
You all may be interested to know I flew direct from Morgan, UT to Rock Springs,
WY, to Fort Collins/Loveland Airport, CO. This is my 22d transcontinental flight
since 2003 in this airplane. First time I have been able to fly direct
over the Rockies in this area. The weather was perfect. Had some turbulence,
but bad. Climbed and cruised 15,000 feet MSL to clear the mountains. The 912ULS
did good.
john h
Kolb MKIII
El Dorado, KS
---- Hugh McKay wrote:
> I need to seal the mating surfaces of the gearbox on my Rotax 912 UL upon reassembly
after a 700 hour disassemble and inspection. I am having a real difficulty
in finding the Rotax recommended Loctite 5910 in small quantities for this.
When I can find it, it is in tubes costing $50 (US) per tube. I only need a
very small quantity. Upon researching the product I find it is an Oximine Silicone,
thixotropic, oil resistant, RTV paste. I can find Permatex Ultra Black
at my local auto store which is basically the same (an Oximine Silicone, thixotropic,
oil resistant, RTV paste). The cured properties of both appear to be the
same.
>
> Why must a Loctite product be used? Are there other equal products that can be
used? What are other mechanics using for this? Gearbox is back and ready to
be reinstalled.
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Allegro 2000
> Rotax 912 UL
> 700 hours
> N661WW
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 Gearbox Sealant Loctite 5910 and 574 |
Sorry for the omission. I flew 6.0 hours today in Kansas wind, right on the nose.
I am worn out. I am three days out of SE Oregon. The turbulence over the
Rockies was not bad. Weather at Rock Springs, WY, was perfect. Never seen anything
but wind, rain, and cold at Rock Springs. Had a good idea I could make
it over the mountains direct.
john h
> You all may be interested to know I flew direct from Morgan, UT to Rock Springs,
WY, to Fort Collins/Loveland Airport, CO. This is my 22d transcontinental
flight since 2003 in this airplane. First time I have been able to fly direct
over the Rockies in this area. The weather was perfect. Had some turbulence,
but "NOT" bad. Climbed and cruised 15,000 feet MSL to clear the mountains.
The 912ULS did good.
>
> john h
> Kolb MKIII
> El Dorado, KS
>
>
>
> ---- Hugh McKay wrote:
> > I need to seal the mating surfaces of the gearbox on my Rotax 912 UL upon reassembly
after a 700 hour disassemble and inspection. I am having a real difficulty
in finding the Rotax recommended Loctite 5910 in small quantities for this.
When I can find it, it is in tubes costing $50 (US) per tube. I only need
a very small quantity. Upon researching the product I find it is an Oximine Silicone,
thixotropic, oil resistant, RTV paste. I can find Permatex Ultra Black
at my local auto store which is basically the same (an Oximine Silicone, thixotropic,
oil resistant, RTV paste). The cured properties of both appear to be
the same.
> >
> > Why must a Loctite product be used? Are there other equal products that can
be used? What are other mechanics using for this? Gearbox is back and ready to
be reinstalled.
> >
> > Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> > Allegro 2000
> > Rotax 912 UL
> > 700 hours
> > N661WW
> > Ph. 704-661-8271
> > email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | 912 Gearbox Sealant Loctite 5910 and 574 |
You all may be interested to know I flew direct from Morgan, UT to
Rock Springs, WY, to Fort Collins/Loveland Airport, CO. This is my 22d
transcontinental flight since 2003 in this airplane. First time I have
been able to fly direct over the Rockies in this area. The weather was
perfect. Had some turbulence, but bad. Climbed and cruised 15,000 feet
MSL to clear the mountains. The 912ULS did good.
john h
Kolb MKIII
El Dorado, KS
Wow John congratulations! If you ever come by Santa Fe, NM,
get in touch, I'd love to meet up. I'll be moving there next week.
Unfortunately the Kitfox will be staying here in Italy, I'll have to see
what I can get my hands on when I'm there.
Sacha
Kitfox 4, Tri-gear, 912UL
Italy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 912 Gearbox Sealant Loctite 5910 and 574 |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Loctite 5910 is the European equivalent of our Loctite 598. Use loctite 598 to
seal the gearbox. Loctite 574 is not used any more.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431213#431213
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Mechanical Fuel Pump gasket |
I have just had my Rotax 912 UL Gearbox off and inspected after 700
hours. I am ready to reinstall it, and need to know if it is necessary
to replace the existing mechanical fuel pump/gearbox gasket. The
original gasket is in perfect condition. Advice and counsel would be
appreciated.
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mechanical Fuel Pump gasket |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
If it wasn't leaking to start with you can re-use it.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431594#431594
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mechanical Fuel Pump gasket |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
If it ain't broke don't fix it!
But then again you went this far - Why not!
But then again it is a Rotax.
I want a CH601 so bad, just not with a Rotax... O-200 or O-235.
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Hugh McKay wrote:
> I have just had my Rotax 912 UL Gearbox off and inspected after 700
> hours. I am ready to reinstall it, and need to know if it is necessary to
> replace the existing mechanical fuel pump/gearbox gasket. The original
> gasket is in perfect condition. Advice and counsel would be appreciated.
>
> Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
> Senior Consultant
> Worldwide Engineering Inc.
> 4090 North NC Hwy. 16
> Denver, NC 28037
>
> Ph. 704-661-8271
> Fax 704-483-5466
> email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
> http://www.wwegeo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During |
November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's solely through
the Contributions of List members (you) that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. YOUR personal Contribution
counts!
This year we have a really HUGE and TERRIFIC line up of free gifts to go along
with the various Contribution levels. In fact, there are over 30 different gifts
to choose from - more than we've ever had before! There's something for everyone,
to be sure. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the
vary members and vendors that you'll find on the Matronics Lists and they have
been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous members include:
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
Corbin Glowacki of My Pilot Store http://www.mypilotstore.com
George Race of Race Consulting http://www.mrrace.com/
Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web
sites. Each one offers a unique and excellent aviation-related product line.
I would like publicly to thank Andy, Bob, Corbin, George, and Jon their generous
support of the Lists again this year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund
Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make |
A Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your
Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94551-0347
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button... |
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund
Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined
with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site
up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics
Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are
so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have
it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Understanding generator / alternator disconnect requirement |
| From: | "kenryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
The wiring diagram in the Rotax 914 installation manual shows the R,B+,L and C
wires from the integrated generator's regulator-rectifier are all disconnected,
via relay 58 when the master is turned off. For the external alternator it shows
the B+ as being connected directly to the battery, while the IG (and L) wires
are disconnected when the master is turned off. The text notes that the integrated
generator's regulator-rectifier must be disconnected to avoid running
the battery down. The text does not mention any such requirement for the external
alternator. Neither the text nor the diagram say whether or not relay 58
is supplied by Rotax with the engine. All this raises the following questions
for this neophyte:
1. Is relay 58 included with the engine?
2. Does the external alternator need to be disconnected to avoid drawing down the
battery?
3. What do the indicator lamps for each of the charging devices actually indicate?
4. Are the indicator lamps considered optional?
5. If installed, can the indicator lamps be LEDs?
6. Are the L and IG wires on the external alternator only for lighting the indicator
lamp or do they serve some additional purpose?
I know it's a lot of questions, but none of them seem to be answered in any of
the Rotax documentation.
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433525#433525
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Understanding generator / alternator disconnect |
requirement
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Hi Ken
Welcome to the Rotax forum. The other really good places to get Rotax information
are Rotax-Owner.com (Rob is very knowledgeable on 914) and of course the factory
website, Rotax-aircraft-engines.com.
I'll try to help you with your questions.
Relay 58 is not included with the engine. You can get suitable relays from B&C
Specialty or Stein Avionics or many other places.
The external alternator is a conventional automotive style alternator and really
doesn't need to disconnected. However, circuit breakers 43 and 45 will disconnect
it and many prefer to start their engine with the alternator off line.
Indicator lights 36 illuminate when their respective alternator is not operating.
Funny I hadn't noticed they both have the same number 36!
In an experimental aircraft you can do whatever you like. Probably you have other
means of indicating the operation of the alternators such as voltmeters and
or ammeters. But the lights don't add weight and do give you indication of
what is happening.
Yes, you can use LEDs. Be sure they have current limiting resistors. In both
cases, the L lead is where the negative lead of the LED connects. I have a LED
on my 914 (no external alternator).
Others should answer about the external alternator, but I believe it is internally
regulated which means the IG wire is used to sense system voltage which in
turn is used by the regulator to control the alternator. I could be mistaken
in this so check with others.
The regulator 13 has proven to be temperature sensitive. Be sure you provide cooling
air to it, mount it on a metal surface if possible and put a temperature
indicating strip on it to be sure it stays below 80C. You should have the same
strips on the ignition modules. I also drilled a small hole in the fin and
connected the ground wire there rather than using one of the mounting bolts to
get a more secure physical connection.
Using LED lighting for position and strobes, you may not need the external alternator.
In my Europa I have 914, two screen EFIS, GNS430 nav-com-gps, transponder,
audio panel , xm weather and AeroLED lights. In cruise the built in alternator
puts out less than 10 amps.
AeroElectric Connection has a pretty good electrical system design, Z-16 for a
Rotax.
Hope this is helpful.
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433611#433611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Understanding generator / alternator disconnect |
requirement
Thanks Jim, definitely helpful. Do you have any experience with the hall
effect current sensor available from GRT? Are they accurate? I will be
monitoring bus voltages but that's not going to allow me to monitor both
alternators and am thinking the hall effect sensors might be best bet.
Agree about rotax-owner.com being superb. I am a paid subscriber.
Ken
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:31 AM, h&jeuropa wrote:
> butcher43(at)att.net>
>
> Hi Ken
>
> Welcome to the Rotax forum. The other really good places to get Rotax
> information are Rotax-Owner.com (Rob is very knowledgeable on 914) and of
> course the factory website, Rotax-aircraft-engines.com.
>
> I'll try to help you with your questions.
>
> Relay 58 is not included with the engine. You can get suitable relays
> from B&C Specialty or Stein Avionics or many other places.
>
> The external alternator is a conventional automotive style alternator and
> really doesn't need to disconnected. However, circuit breakers 43 and 45
> will disconnect it and many prefer to start their engine with the
> alternator off line.
>
> Indicator lights 36 illuminate when their respective alternator is not
> operating. Funny I hadn't noticed they both have the same number 36!
>
> In an experimental aircraft you can do whatever you like. Probably you
> have other means of indicating the operation of the alternators such as
> voltmeters and or ammeters. But the lights don't add weight and do give
> you indication of what is happening.
>
> Yes, you can use LEDs. Be sure they have current limiting resistors. In
> both cases, the L lead is where the negative lead of the LED connects. I
> have a LED on my 914 (no external alternator).
>
> Others should answer about the external alternator, but I believe it is
> internally regulated which means the IG wire is used to sense system
> voltage which in turn is used by the regulator to control the alternator.
> I could be mistaken in this so check with others.
>
> The regulator 13 has proven to be temperature sensitive. Be sure you
> provide cooling air to it, mount it on a metal surface if possible and put
> a temperature indicating strip on it to be sure it stays below 80C. You
> should have the same strips on the ignition modules. I also drilled a small
> hole in the fin and connected the ground wire there rather than using one
> of the mounting bolts to get a more secure physical connection.
>
> Using LED lighting for position and strobes, you may not need the external
> alternator. In my Europa I have 914, two screen EFIS, GNS430 nav-com-gps,
> transponder, audio panel , xm weather and AeroLED lights. In cruise the
> built in alternator puts out less than 10 amps.
>
> AeroElectric Connection has a pretty good electrical system design, Z-16
> for a Rotax.
>
> Hope this is helpful.
>
> Jim Butcher
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433611#433611
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Understanding generator / alternator disconnect |
requirement
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Ken,
Yes Hall Effect current sensors are accurate and easy to install. I actually have
two, one on the output of the alternator and one on the positive lead of the
battery to monitor system performance. I use a switch to select which one
is the input to my EIS.
You can use the 50 amp sensor and run the wire thru twice to make it a 25 amp sensor.
Also be aware that the bus voltage may not be what it says. If you have a GRT
EIS, the voltage the EIS measures is it's input and is accurate. If it is being
fed from a E Buss, there probably is a diode in the circuit which drops the
voltage. Just compare what EIS reports and a voltmeter on your battery to see
the difference. If you have a multiple input EFIS, there are probably diodes
in it too. Again, compare to a voltmeter. Mine drop about .4 volts.
BTW, just click "reply to post" to keep all the posts in one thread. Makes it
easier when you look for this again in 5 years!!
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433623#433623
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Understanding generator / alternator disconnect |
requirement
You completely lost me when you say to run the wire twice through the 50
amp to make it a 25 amp.
Also, I do not see any link that says "Reply to Post" so I guess I'll just
have to use the "Reply" button.
Ken
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:25 PM, h&jeuropa wrote:
> butcher43(at)att.net>
>
> Ken,
>
> Yes Hall Effect current sensors are accurate and easy to install. I
> actually have two, one on the output of the alternator and one on the
> positive lead of the battery to monitor system performance. I use a switch
> to select which one is the input to my EIS.
>
> You can use the 50 amp sensor and run the wire thru twice to make it a 25
> amp sensor.
>
> Also be aware that the bus voltage may not be what it says. If you have a
> GRT EIS, the voltage the EIS measures is it's input and is accurate. If it
> is being fed from a E Buss, there probably is a diode in the circuit which
> drops the voltage. Just compare what EIS reports and a voltmeter on your
> battery to see the difference. If you have a multiple input EFIS, there
> are probably diodes in it too. Again, compare to a voltmeter. Mine drop
> about .4 volts.
>
> BTW, just click "reply to post" to keep all the posts in one thread.
> Makes it easier when you look for this again in 5 years!!
>
> Jim Butcher
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433623#433623
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Understanding generator / alternator disconnect |
requirement
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Ken,
As you did this time, just hit Post Reply.
A Hall Effect sensor measures the magnetic field generated when current passes
thru a wire. More current, stronger field. Notice that the sensor looks like
a doughnut. It is the amount or strength of the magnetic field within the doughnut
that is measured and is proportional to the current in the wire.
The sensor outputs a voltage proportional to the amps. The amp rating of the sensor
is how many amps are required for the sensor to output it's maximum voltage.
If you put 75 amps thru a 50 amp sensor, it wont be damaged but it will
not output a voltage that corresponds to 75 amps.
So if you run the wire thru the doughnut twice, there is twice the field inside.
The sensor says there is X amps. But since X is generated by the wire thru
twice, the wire is actually carrying X2 amps.
So a 50 amp sensor can be a 25 / 16.6 / 12.5 etc sensor. You might want to do
this to get better resolution. Say you have a 50 amp sensor. That means it
will output it's max voltage (5 volts for ones like the GRT) when there is 50
amps. But your alternator only is capable of 25 amps. So when the alternator
is at 25 amps the sensor will output 2.5 volts. And 5 amps would be .5 volts.
If you double the wire, those become 5 and 1 volts so you can see small changes
easier.
This help?
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433632#433632
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Understanding generator / alternator disconnect |
requirement
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
Yes I think I follow
Thanks.
On Nov 13, 2014 2:33 PM, "h&jeuropa" wrote:
> butcher43(at)att.net>
>
> Ken,
>
> As you did this time, just hit Post Reply.
>
> A Hall Effect sensor measures the magnetic field generated when current
> passes thru a wire. More current, stronger field. Notice that the sensor
> looks like a doughnut. It is the amount or strength of the magnetic field
> within the doughnut that is measured and is proportional to the current in
> the wire.
>
> The sensor outputs a voltage proportional to the amps. The amp rating of
> the sensor is how many amps are required for the sensor to output it's
> maximum voltage. If you put 75 amps thru a 50 amp sensor, it wont be
> damaged but it will not output a voltage that corresponds to 75 amps.
>
> So if you run the wire thru the doughnut twice, there is twice the field
> inside. The sensor says there is X amps. But since X is generated by the
> wire thru twice, the wire is actually carrying X2 amps.
>
> So a 50 amp sensor can be a 25 / 16.6 / 12.5 etc sensor. You might want
> to do this to get better resolution. Say you have a 50 amp sensor. That
> means it will output it's max voltage (5 volts for ones like the GRT) when
> there is 50 amps. But your alternator only is capable of 25 amps. So when
> the alternator is at 25 amps the sensor will output 2.5 volts. And 5 amps
> would be .5 volts. If you double the wire, those become 5 and 1 volts so
> you can see small changes easier.
>
> This help?
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433632#433632
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Understanding generator / alternator disconnect |
requirement
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
ROTAX....
Yea, one thread, you got that right...
"You can use the 50 amp sensor and run the wire thru twice to make it a 25
amp sensor." Isn't that the other way around?
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:25 PM, h&jeuropa wrote:
> butcher43(at)att.net>
>
> Ken,
>
> Yes Hall Effect current sensors are accurate and easy to install. I
> actually have two, one on the output of the alternator and one on the
> positive lead of the battery to monitor system performance. I use a switch
> to select which one is the input to my EIS.
>
> You can use the 50 amp sensor and run the wire thru twice to make it a 25
> amp sensor.
>
> Also be aware that the bus voltage may not be what it says. If you have a
> GRT EIS, the voltage the EIS measures is it's input and is accurate. If it
> is being fed from a E Buss, there probably is a diode in the circuit which
> drops the voltage. Just compare what EIS reports and a voltmeter on your
> battery to see the difference. If you have a multiple input EFIS, there
> are probably diodes in it too. Again, compare to a voltmeter. Mine drop
> about .4 volts.
>
> BTW, just click "reply to post" to keep all the posts in one thread.
> Makes it easier when you look for this again in 5 years!!
>
> Jim Butcher
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433623#433623
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some point, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides
for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List.
It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
performance possible for List services such as the Archive Search Engine,
List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for the over 23 years of on-line
archive data always available for instant search and access. And, it offsets
the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications
that power these List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums,
and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses.
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables all these aspects of Matronics List
services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of
the best investments you can make in your Sport!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least
that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get
a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during
this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through
YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
Since the beginning, the Matronics List and Forum experience has been free from
advertising. I have been approached by fair number of vendors wanting to tap
into the large volume of activity across the various lists hosted here, but have
always flatly refused. Everywhere you go on the Internet these days, a user
is pummeled with flashing banners and videos and ads for crap that they don't
want. Yahoo, Google and that elk are not "free". The user must constantly
endure their barrage of commercialism thrust into their face at an ever increasing
rate. Enough is enough, and the Lists at Matronics choose not to succumb
to that.
That being said, running a service of this size is not "free". It costs a lot
of money to maintain the hardware, pay for the electricity, air conditioning,
maintenance contracts, etc, etc. etc. I choose to hold a PBS-like fund raiser
each year during the month of November where I simply send out a short email
every other day asking the members to make a small contribution to support the
operation. That being said, that contribution is completely voluntary and non-compulsory.
Many members choose not to contribute and that's fine.
However, a very modest percentage of the members do choose to make a contribution
and it is that financial support that keeps the Lists running. And that's
it. To my way of thinking, it is a much more pleasant way of maintaining the
Lists and Forums. The other 11 months of the year, you don't see a single advertisement
or request for support. That's refreshing and that is a List and Forum
that I want to belong to. I think other people feel the same way.
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Behind By 20% - Please Contribute Today! |
Dear Listers,
The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year
is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 20%. Please take this
opportunity to show your support for the Matronics Lists and Forums!
Please remember that it is *solely* your direct Contributions that keep these Lists
and Forums up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members
don't want to support the Lists directly, then I might have to add advertisements
to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I don't want to have to do
that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot
of the members appreciate that too.
Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free
operation of all these Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already
made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming |
Soon!
Dear Listers,
There's just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float. You
can see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the picture.
Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new float
availability. None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's
float supplier to fix the problem. Fortunately, I saved the old floats when
I rebuilt the carbs 18 months ago.
Rick Girard
Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
-Andre Gide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "vernon mitchell" <vernon11(at)xsinet.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
Shocking, that it is taking so long to sort out. Will Rotax replace them
free of charge?
Vernon
From: Richard Girard
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:31 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: SB-912-065/914-046
Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float.
You can see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the
picture.
Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new float
availability. None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's
float supplier to fix the problem. Fortunately, I saved the old floats
when I rebuilt the carbs 18 months ago.
Rick Girard
Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
-Andre Gide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Giving Thanks - Your List Contribution... |
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for the many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists.
Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | "AmphibFlyer" <SeaRey(at)AbstractConcreteWorks.com> |
rickofudall wrote:
> Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float. You can
see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the picture.
My 914 is 15 years old; but I replaced both carbs last year with new ones that
I bought on Ebay. (The price was hardly more than the cost of a rebuuild kit.)
Everything was fine for several months, but then I started smelling gasoline
in turbulence, and occasionally the engine would flood after a flight and was
hard to re-start. Sometimes the next day after flying I'd see that a bit of gasoline
had run down the side of the pylon (it's a high-wing pusher SeaRey) and
onto the turtledeck below. I worked around that by turning off the fuel pumps
about 30 seconds before switching the engine off. That prevented flooding, but
made me anxious, even though the engine ran just fine otherwise.
Then three people I knew with brand new engines had similar but much worse problems.
The engine would load up and sometime quit when idling. Then in flight at
low throttle settings. One got so bad that the only way the pilot could keep
the engine running in flight was to turn both fuel pumps OFF! When the engine
would begin to stutter he'd flip on one pump for a few seconds. It was a scary
situation for him, but he managed to reach an airport and land safely.
Eventually Rotax issued the SB.
And THEN I had a look at the serial numbers on my "new" carbs. Sure enough, they
were in the range that Rotax cited.
So a few days ago I took the floats out and weighed them: 3 g, 3 g, 3 g, 2.9 g--all
within the acceptable range, but very close to Rotax's maximum pair weight
of 7 g.
Furthermore, 2 of the 4 floats were abraded and had chips worse than those in Rick's
photo. They had been in service for about 200 hours.
I replaced them with unused floats from a carb kit that I bought about 8 years
ago. Those floats weighed only 0.5 g less than the faulty floats but they had
no cracks or chips.
I've flown the airplane about 5 hours since then without smelling gasoline in flight,
and the engine doesn't flood, and there's no gas seeping out anywhere.
So I'm calling it fixed, at least for now.
Anyone with an engine or carbs in the worry range of serial numbers should take
that SB VERY seriously! And if they notice any of the symptoms I've described,
I'd urge them to stay on the ground until they can check the floats.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=434855#434855
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Vernon, When I called Lockwood tech support I was told the procedure is to
order new floats and with them will come a warranty form. Fill out the
form, send it in with the old floats and you get a refund. So, yes, it
appears Rotax is supporting the S/B. Now all we need are new floats.
Rick
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:11 AM, vernon mitchell
wrote:
> Shocking, that it is taking so long to sort out. Will Rotax replace them
> free of charge?
> Vernon
>
> *From:* Richard Girard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:31 AM
> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RotaxEngines-List: SB-912-065/914-046
>
> Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float. You
> can see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the picture.
> Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new float
> availability. None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's
> float supplier to fix the problem. Fortunately, I saved the old floats when
> I rebuilt the carbs 18 months ago.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
> -Andre Gide
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
-Andre Gide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just Two Days Left! - Still Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. We are still
way behind last year in terms of the number of contributions and total contribution
amount. I really want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt
community, but it take resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep
pockets to keep the operation a float, its solely your generosity during the
Fund Raiser that keeps things going. Please make a Contribution today.
If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time
to do it!
Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Rick:
did you get that in writing? Does their website support what was said.
Barry
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Richard Girard
wrote:
> Vernon, When I called Lockwood tech support I was told the procedure is to
> order new floats and with them will come a warranty form. Fill out the
> form, send it in with the old floats and you get a refund. So, yes, it
> appears Rotax is supporting the S/B. Now all we need are new floats.
>
> Rick
>
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:11 AM, vernon mitchell
> wrote:
>
>> Shocking, that it is taking so long to sort out. Will Rotax replace
>> them free of charge?
>> Vernon
>>
>> *From:* Richard Girard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:31 AM
>> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RotaxEngines-List: SB-912-065/914-046
>>
>> Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float.
>> You can see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the
>> picture.
>> Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new float
>> availability. None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's
>> float supplier to fix the problem. Fortunately, I saved the old floats when
>> I rebuilt the carbs 18 months ago.
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Barry, No, I'm just reporting what I was told. What's your point?
Rick
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:57 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Rick:
>
> did you get that in writing? Does their website support what was said.
>
> Barry
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Richard Girard
> wrote:
>
>> Vernon, When I called Lockwood tech support I was told the procedure is
>> to order new floats and with them will come a warranty form. Fill out the
>> form, send it in with the old floats and you get a refund. So, yes, it
>> appears Rotax is supporting the S/B. Now all we need are new floats.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:11 AM, vernon mitchell
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Shocking, that it is taking so long to sort out. Will Rotax replace
>>> them free of charge?
>>> Vernon
>>>
>>> *From:* Richard Girard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:31 AM
>>> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RotaxEngines-List: SB-912-065/914-046
>>>
>>> Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float.
>>> You can see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the
>>> picture.
>>> Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new float
>>> availability. None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's
>>> float supplier to fix the problem. Fortunately, I saved the old floats when
>>> I rebuilt the carbs 18 months ago.
>>>
>>> Rick Girard
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
-Andre Gide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming |
Soon!
Dear Listers,
There's just two more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly
thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Rich:
I am very cautious... Some may say skeptical. Only because as much as we
love our planes, others love our wallets. I do not see why we should buy a
new set of floats (you already paid for the first set). It would seam very
simple to just:
a> ROTAX/Lockwood create an online form to be filled out and issue either a
cash credit, written check or ship you new floats. Or...
b> ROTAX/Lockwood should accept a simple letter from those affected along
with the old style float and send out a new floats.
Why should we have to BUY a new set and then WAIT for them to credit us!
If it is not in writing it does not exist. Perry Mason 101.
Barry
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Richard Girard
wrote:
> Barry, No, I'm just reporting what I was told. What's your point?
>
> Rick
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:57 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>> Rick:
>>
>> did you get that in writing? Does their website support what was said.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Richard Girard
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Vernon, When I called Lockwood tech support I was told the procedure is
>>> to order new floats and with them will come a warranty form. Fill out the
>>> form, send it in with the old floats and you get a refund. So, yes, it
>>> appears Rotax is supporting the S/B. Now all we need are new floats.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:11 AM, vernon mitchell
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Shocking, that it is taking so long to sort out. Will Rotax replace
>>>> them free of charge?
>>>> Vernon
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Richard Girard
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:31 AM
>>>> *To:* rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> *Subject:* RotaxEngines-List: SB-912-065/914-046
>>>>
>>>> Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float.
>>>> You can see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the
>>>> picture.
>>>> Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new float
>>>> availability. None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's
>>>> float supplier to fix the problem. Fortunately, I saved the old floats when
>>>> I rebuilt the carbs 18 months ago.
>>>>
>>>> Rick Girard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>
>> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
> -Andre Gide
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | Alan Sandul <asandul(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Guys,
New to this site and have been reading very good comments on Rotax and anyth
ing to do with Pulsar III aircraft. Have had many issues since rebuild of pl
ane and issues with 912ULS.
Just a FYI for float issue. Rotax SB-912-065-R1, Material Info-2.2, covers R
otax paying for all required to test but doesn't indicate about paying upfro
nt or refund later.
Will try to get more involved with forum as time permits.
Good luck,
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 29, 2014, at 12:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
> Rich:
>
> I am very cautious... Some may say skeptical. Only because as much as we
love our planes, others love our wallets. I do not see why we should buy a
new set of floats (you already paid for the first set). It would seam very
simple to just:
> a> ROTAX/Lockwood create an online form to be filled out and issue either a
cash credit, written check or ship you new floats. Or...
> b> ROTAX/Lockwood should accept a simple letter from those affected along w
ith the old style float and send out a new floats.
>
> Why should we have to BUY a new set and then WAIT for them to credit us!
>
> If it is not in writing it does not exist. Perry Mason 101.
>
> Barry
>
>> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Richard Girard wr
ote:
>> Barry, No, I'm just reporting what I was told. What's your point?
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:57 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>>> Rick:
>>>
>>> did you get that in writing? Does their website support what was said.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Richard Girard w
rote:
>>>> Vernon, When I called Lockwood tech support I was told the procedure is
to order new floats and with them will come a warranty form. Fill out the f
orm, send it in with the old floats and you get a refund. So, yes, it appear
s Rotax is supporting the S/B. Now all we need are new floats.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:11 AM, vernon mitchell wrote:
>>>>> Shocking, that it is taking so long to sort out. Will Rotax replace th
em free of charge?
>>>>> Vernon
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Richard Girard
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:31 AM
>>>>> To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: SB-912-065/914-046
>>>>>
>>>>> Did the weight check per the Service Bulletin and found a heavy float.
You can see the crack on the lower edge of the left hand float in the pictu
re.
>>>>> Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new floa
t availability. None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's flo
at supplier to fix the problem. Fortunately, I saved the old floats when I r
ebuilt the carbs 18 months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick Girard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>>
>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-L
ist
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
>> -Andre Gide
>>
>>
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Li
st
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again
- 51, so don't reminde me! :-) But it also means that it's that last official
day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about
picking up one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump
on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SB-912-065/914-046 |
| From: | "AmphibFlyer" <SeaRey(at)AbstractConcreteWorks.com> |
rickofudall wrote:
> ...Called both Lockwood and the Bing Agency to get the status of new float availability.
None at this time, Rotax is working with Bing and Bing's float supplier
to fix the problem. ...
> Rick Girard
>
Here's an update on Rick's post:
I just talked on the phone with Dean at Lockwood. He says that Rotax hasn't yet
announced a remedy for the bad float problem (other than to check them every
25 hours) and therefore Lockwood still has the old, potentially bad, floats. He
says that float replacement will work like a standard warranty claim. You buy
new floats and submit a warranty claim for the bad floats.
You'll need to demonstrate that the floats actually are bad--by weighing them individually
or by photographing them floating in gasoline while in a carb bowl.
I think he said that the pin should be at the fuel level; if not, they're bad.
(A 912 bowl will work as well as a 914 bowl and is easier because you don't
have to hold the bigfat bolt and o-ring in there to keep the gas from running
out.)
In the meantime, all engines, carbs, and floats in the worry range should be checked
every 25 hours. That includes brand new floats that you might buy to replace
your bad ones--until Rotax gets the float supply problem fixed.
=Don Maxwell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435209#435209
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wilde <stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com> |
OK. I have stripped the magnetic plug and can't get it out with the
torx. What are my options? I do have the new hex head replacement but
that doesn't help til I get the old one out. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Dan Wilde
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
1 - BP Blast
2 - Drill it out... Then use a EZOut...
3 - What material is it made of?
You may want to use a SQUARE EZOut.
4 - Another trick it so use HEAT... Heat around the plug and cool the
plug, then quickly use the EZOut .
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Dan,
This is easy. I have done many. Give me a call and I'll tell you two ways to do
it in seconds..
Roger Lee
Tucson, AZ
520-574-1080
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435435#435435
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
I experienced the same problem somewhere back there since I started flying
912 engines in 1994.
If I remember correctly, I smacked it with flat faced brass drift and a 2
lb hammer, then broke it loose with a pair of Vise Grips. I too had a new
mag plug to replace the one I buggered up.
Personally, I would never use an Ease It Out on anything. If you screw up
and break the tip off one, you are really screwed.
Also, I don't think I would use heat on the gear box or cases, or for that
matter, anything on the 912.
Worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary.
john h
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
1 - BP Blast
2 - Drill it out... Then use a EZOut...
3 - What material is it made of?
You may want to use a SQUARE EZOut.
4 - Another trick it so use HEAT... Heat around the plug and cool the plug,
then quickly use the EZOut .
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
| From: | Alan Sandul <asandul(at)yahoo.com> |
What I have done is get a large flat punch the size of the OD of the plug and give
it a shock blow and then if you don't have an internal allen head remover,
I have actually used a chisel,not to sharp, and on the OD of the plug,give it
a good shot in the counterclockwise direction to snap it loose and it will come
out. Not an expert, but this has worked on stripped plugs in the hydraulic
industry, and actually on my 912ULS, and worked fine. Good you have a new one,
but I am still using the original.
Maybe wait till someone else may have a better solution, but this worked for me.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 6, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Dan Wilde wrote:
>
>
> OK. I have stripped the magnetic plug and can't get it out with the torx. What
are my options? I do have the new hex head replacement but that doesn't help
til I get the old one out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Dan Wilde
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
| From: | Alan Sandul <asandul(at)yahoo.com> |
The plug is magnetic so is steel but the magnetic insert in the interior is a separate
piece and I would be concerned if drilling out it may become dislodged
and fall inside the crankcase,which brings up another issue. The plug is not
secured with Loctite so heating won't help,as the plug will expand before the
case, but cooling it quickly with CO2 may help but try the chisel method because
it worked for me. I just checked my plug and it has a small notch where I used
the dull chisel to get it out and is still there with no issue. Mind you I
didn't totally strip the Allen/Torx as I saw it wasn't coming out and used the
Allen wrench to tighten it back in and the notch is there for loosening it the
next check. Good you have a new one to replace the old one if you wish. Rotax
so it's not cheap.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 6, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Dan Wilde wrote:
>
>
> OK. I have stripped the magnetic plug and can't get it out with the torx. What
are my options? I do have the new hex head replacement but that doesn't help
til I get the old one out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Dan Wilde
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
A good mechanic does not break off EZ Outs.
Heat is quite acceptable... After all heat is generated by the gear box.
You are not brazing you are just creating a delta in the heat between the
male and female threads - That is why I mentioned cool the plug... ICE
works very good for that.
What is the plug made of?
What is the case made of?
I'm guessing that the case is cast? If so - You feel it is acceptable to
pound on the case with a brass drift and a 2 Lb hammer... OUCH! Did I
hear that case CRACK!
Barry
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 6:24 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> I experienced the same problem somewhere back there since I started flying
> 912 engines in 1994.
>
>
> If I remember correctly, I smacked it with flat faced brass drift and a
> 2 lb hammer, then broke it loose with a pair of Vise Grips. I too had a
> new mag plug to replace the one I buggered up.
>
>
> Personally, I would never use an Ease It Out on anything. If you screw
> up and break the tip off one, you are really screwed.
>
>
> Also, I don't think I would use heat on the gear box or cases, or for that
> matter, anything on the 912.
>
>
> Worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary.
>
>
> john h
>
> MKIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> 1 - BP Blast
>
> 2 - Drill it out... Then use a EZOut...
>
> 3 - What material is it made of?
>
> You may want to use a SQUARE EZOut.
>
> 4 - Another trick it so use HEAT... Heat around the plug and cool the
> plug, then quickly use the EZOut .
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
| From: | JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com> |
A sharp cold chisel, applied to the edge of the flange. May be able to
knock it loose just with that. If not apply a flat face punch to the notch
made by the chisel. I've done it several times easily.
JG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
Smacking it with a brass drift and a hammer is the method that was taught
to me in Rotax school. It works well and pops it loose so you can turn it
with an allen.I have done it many times that way.
Dick Maddux
912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Orth" <mosurf(at)xplornet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic plug |
Maybe you could use a Dremel-like tool to cut a groove in the plug.
Then use a large screwdriver in the groove and Vise Grips to get the
plug moving.
Michael
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 3:19 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Magnetic plug
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> This is easy. I have done many. Give me a call and I'll tell you two
ways to do it in seconds..
>
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, AZ
> 520-574-1080
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435435#435435
>
>
>
June 24, 2014 - December 07, 2014
RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.vol-bg