TeamGrumman-Archive.digest.vol-am
April 19, 2007 - November 04, 2007
The aileron stop was made out of 1/8 stainless steel too.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | FW: Here's one for your desktop |
Here is a really cool formation shot...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
Image: 070412-N-8591H-066.jpg
Description: Aircraft assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform a
formation flight in front of Mount Fuji.
Download HiRes
More Photos
070412-N-8591H-066 MOUNT FUJI, Japan (April 12, 2007) - Aircraft assigned to
Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform a formation flight in front of Mount Fuji.
CVW-5 is embarked aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63). Kitty Hawk operates from
Fleet
Activities Yokosuka, Japan. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist
3rd Class Jarod Hodge (RELEASED)
-----------------------------------------------
I'd recommend Communications Specialist Hodge a commendation ribbon
for this shot. (To some of you, thats the old Photographer's Mate rating,
PH)
YNCS Don Harribine, USN(ret)
Any man or woman who may be asked in this century what they did to make
life worthwhile in their lifetime....can respond with a great deal of pride
and
satisfaction, "I served a career in the United States Navy."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Here's one for your desktop |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Hi Steve, the photos didn't come through on the -list. Could you send
them to TeamGrumman(at)aol.com? Thanks
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
Sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: FW: Here's one for your desktop
Here is a really cool formation shot...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
Image: 070412-N-8591H-066.jpg
Description: Aircraft assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform
a
formation flight in front of Mount Fuji.
Download HiRes
More Photos
070412-N-8591H-066 MOUNT FUJI, Japan (April 12, 2007) - Aircraft
assigned to
Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform a formation flight in front of Mount
Fuji.
CVW-5 is embarked aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63). Kitty Hawk operates
from Fleet
Activities Yokosuka, Japan. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication
Specialist
3rd Class Jarod Hodge (RELEASED)
-----------------------------------------------
I'd recommend Communications Specialist Hodge a commendation ribbon
for this shot. (To some of you, thats the old Photographer's Mate
rating,
PH)
YNCS Don Harribine, USN(ret)
Any man or woman who may be asked in this century what they did to
make
life worthwhile in their lifetime....can respond with a great deal of
pride
and
satisfaction, "I served a career in the United States Navy."
[Image Removed]
[Image Removed]
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Here's one for your desktop |
Yeah I dunno what happened. Try this link.
<http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/070412-N-8591H-066.jpg>
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: FW: Here's one for your desktop
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:46:21 -0400
Hi Steve, the photos didn't come through on the -list. Could you send them
to TeamGrumman(at)aol.com? Thanks
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
Sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: FW: Here's one for your desktop
Here is a really cool formation shot...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
Image: 070412-N-8591H-066.jpg
Description: Aircraft assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform
a
formation flight in front of Mount Fuji.
Download HiRes
More Photos
070412-N-8591H-066 MOUNT FUJI, Japan (April 12, 2007) - Aircraft assigned
to
Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform a formation flight in front of Mount
Fuji.
CVW-5 is embarked aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63). Kitty Hawk operates from
Fleet
Activities Yokosuka, Japan. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication
Specialist
3rd Class Jarod Hodge (RELEASED)
-----------------------------------------------
I'd recommend Communications Specialist Hodge a commendation ribbon
for this shot. (To some of you, thats the old Photographer's Mate
rating,
PH)
YNCS Don Harribine, USN(ret)
Any man or woman who may be asked in this century what they did to make
life worthwhile in their lifetime....can respond with a great deal of
pride
and
satisfaction, "I served a career in the United States Navy."
[Image Removed]
[Image Removed]
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Here's one for your desktop |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Cool pic. Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
Sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: FW: Here's one for your desktop
Yeah I dunno what happened. Try this link.
<http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/070412-N-8591H-066.jpg>
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Reply-To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: FW: Here's one for your desktop
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:46:21 -0400
Hi Steve, the photos didn't come through on the -list. Could you send
them to TeamGrumman(at)aol.com? Thanks
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
Sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: FW: Here's one for your desktop
Here is a really cool formation shot...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
Image: 070412-N-8591H-066.jpg
Description: Aircraft assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform
a
formation flight in front of Mount Fuji.
Download HiRes
More Photos
070412-N-8591H-066 MOUNT FUJI, Japan (April 12, 2007) - Aircraft
assigned to
Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 perform a formation flight in front of Mount
Fuji.
CVW-5 is embarked aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63). Kitty Hawk operates
from Fleet
Activities Yokosuka, Japan. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication
Specialist
3rd Class Jarod Hodge (RELEASED)
-----------------------------------------------
I'd recommend Communications Specialist Hodge a commendation ribbon
for this shot. (To some of you, thats the old Photographer's Mate
rating,
PH)
YNCS Don Harribine, USN(ret)
Any man or woman who may be asked in this century what they did to
make
life worthwhile in their lifetime....can respond with a great deal of
pride
and
satisfaction, "I served a career in the United States Navy."
[Image Removed]
[Image Removed]
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Magnetos: a heads-up |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
I got a new 4371 magneto last week, 02/07 manufacture's date.
After I tightened the nut to about 30 inch-lbs (it's supposed to be 120
to 320 in-lbs) I was unable to move the impulse coupling body to trip
the impulse coupler. It was as though the entire impulse coupler was
locked up. I swapped out the impulse coupling body with the old one
and it still didn't work. I tried a different washer and nut, still
locked up. So, I started measuring the pilot shaft and associated
parts. The pilot shaft on the new mag was about .040 higher. When the
nut is snugged up, the washer locks the pilot shaft to the gear.
I called LyCon and asked if they'd seen it and was told they'd had a
few (4371s) recently that are not right.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magnetos: a heads-up |
Very interesting! Didn't someone say that Unison had been bought out not
that long ago? I think it was in conjunction with problems with the LASAR
system. Is this a QC problem as a result?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:23 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Magnetos: a heads-up
>
> I got a new 4371 magneto last week, 02/07 manufacture's date.
>
> After I tightened the nut to about 30 inch-lbs (it's supposed to be 120 to
> 320 in-lbs) I was unable to move the impulse coupling body to trip the
> impulse coupler. It was as though the entire impulse coupler was locked
> up. I swapped out the impulse coupling body with the old one and it still
> didn't work. I tried a different washer and nut, still locked up. So, I
> started measuring the pilot shaft and associated parts. The pilot shaft
> on the new mag was about .040 higher. When the nut is snugged up, the
> washer locks the pilot shaft to the gear.
>
> I called LyCon and asked if they'd seen it and was told they'd had a few
> (4371s) recently that are not right.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
> --
> 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007 11:56 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetos: a heads-up |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Yes, I hope we don't go through a learning period while GE learns how
to do something that's been done for 50 years.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Sent: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Magnetos: a heads-up
Very interesting! Didn't someone say that Unison had been bought out
not that long ago? I think it was in conjunction with problems with the
LASAR system. Is this a QC problem as a result?
Cliff
----- Original Message ----- From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:23 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Magnetos: a heads-up
>
> I got a new 4371 magneto last week, 02/07 manufacture's date.
>
> After I tightened the nut to about 30 inch-lbs (it's supposed to be
120 to > 320 in-lbs) I was unable to move the impulse coupling body to
trip the > impulse coupler. It was as though the entire impulse coupler
was locked > up. I swapped out the impulse coupling body with the old
one and it still > didn't work. I tried a different washer and nut,
still locked up. So, I > started measuring the pilot shaft and
associated parts. The pilot shaft > on the new mag was about .040
higher. When the nut is snugged up, the > washer locks the pilot shaft
to the gear.
>
> I called LyCon and asked if they'd seen it and was told they'd had a
few > (4371s) recently that are not right.
>
________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- > 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007 11:56 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GOLDPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Project spare parts..... |
Qty. 113 Darkness Emitting Arsenate Diodes (DEADS)
Useful for off indicators, stop indicators, and power loss indicators.
They consume no power, do not require voltage dropping resistors no
matter what voltage you use them on, and never never cause glare in
low light conditions.
Included if you act fast are free brackets and mounting bezels
precision machined from the finest unobtainium.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Davis" <stdavis(at)wuesd.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Project spare parts..... |
Tha'st pretty creative... You should get a job on wall street.... You'll be rich
within a week.... In jail within the year....but maybe if you had a good lawyer....
Steve N7124L 74 Traveler
Stdavis(at)wuesd.org
TJMS Tech Coordinator
>>> 04/24/07 9:20 AM >>>
Qty. 113 Darkness Emitting Arsenate Diodes (DEADS)
Useful for off indicators, stop indicators, and power loss indicators.
They consume no power, do not require voltage dropping resistors no
matter what voltage you use them on, and never never cause glare in
low light conditions.
Included if you act fast are free brackets and mounting bezels
precision machined from the finest unobtainium.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Project spare parts..... |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
There ya go Dave, now you can afford to live in Auburn.
-----Original Message-----
From: GOLDPILOT(at)aol.com
Sent: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Project spare parts.....
Qty. 113 Darkness Emitting Arsenate Diodes (DEADS)
Useful for off indicators, stop indicators, and power loss indicators.
They consume no power, do not require voltage dropping resistors no
matter what voltage you use them on, and never never cause glare in
low light conditions.
Included if you act fast are free brackets and mounting bezels
precision machined from the finest unobtainium.
--------
See what's free at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | MCCAULEY PROP/SPINNER Removed from Grumman AA1B |
It's all removed from 64L. I no longer have a use for it.
<http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search>
Here are some more photos.
<http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/aa1bflyboy/4%20sale/>
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Redneck Moose Hunt |
Two Redneck hunters got a pilot to fly them to Canada to hunt moose. They
bagged six. As they started loading the plane for the return trip home, the
pilot tells them the plane can take only four moose.
The two good old boys object strongly. "Last year we shot six and the pilot
let us put them all on board; he had the same plane as yours."
Reluctantly, the pilot gave in and all six were loaded.
Unfortunately, even on full power the little plane couldn't handle the load
and went down a few moments after take-off.
Climbing out of the wreck Bubba asked Earl, "Any idea where we are?"
"Yeah, I think we's pretty close to where we crashed last year."
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Removed from AA1B |
Gang, most of the parts are sold to a fellow gang member.
The engine, prop, spinner, conical mount, stock nose strut are sold. I still
have a rudder cap, Whelen flashing beacon & Grimes tailcone light. They are
all in good shape as removed when I did an O320 upgrade. Call for more info
302-798-3655. Contact Steve Roberts - located Wilmington, DE
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
OK, I recently went through the steps to replace a muffler with a good
used muffler.
Well, I got another plane (Tiger) today that needs a muffler. Any good
ideas? What are the going prices?
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Redneck Moose Hunt |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Reminds me of when my uncle and my dad would go deer hunting in the
Book Cliffs in North-Eastern Utah. They'd fly in in my uncle's V-tail
Bonanza. My uncle would land on top of the Book Cliffs on a dirt road.
When they got a deer, my uncle would have to fly one deer at a time
(if they got two) to Vernal Utah (or sometimes Evanston, Wildoming) and
my Dad would drive the deer back to Salt Lake. A lot of work.
-----Original Message-----
From: aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
Sent: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 5:22 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Redneck Moose Hunt
Two Redneck hunters got a pilot to fly them to Canada to hunt moose.
They bagged six. As they started loading the plane for the return trip
home, the pilot tells them the plane can take only four moose.
The two good old boys object strongly. "Last year we shot six and the
pilot let us put them all on board; he had the same plane as yours."
Reluctantly, the pilot gave in and all six were loaded.
Unfortunately, even on full power the little plane couldn't handle the
load and went down a few moments after take-off.
Climbing out of the wreck Bubba asked Earl, "Any idea where we are?"
"Yeah, I think we's pretty close to where we crashed last year."
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth Tusha" <ktusha(at)gpcom.net> |
I have a used muffler which was replaced by powerflow at overhaul a few
months ago. I have no idea what it's worth. i would be interested in
selling it for whatever would be fair.
Ken Tusha
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Mutzman" <rcmutz(at)msn.com> |
Gary,
I replace my Cheetah muffler using Dawley. they have the OEM equipment,
$571 + $150 core charge. Fit perfect.
Richard Mutzman
N399RM 3I7
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Muffler
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
OK, I recently went through the steps to replace a muffler with a good
used muffler.
Well, I got another plane (Tiger) today that needs a muffler. Any good
ideas? What are the going prices?
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Thanks, was that for a new one? did you get it through Dawley? or
through someone else? Got a number?
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: rcmutz(at)msn.com
Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Muffler
Gary,
I replace my Cheetah muffler using Dawley. they have the OEM
equipment, $571 + $150 core charge. Fit perfect.
Richard Mutzman
N399RM 3I7
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Muffler
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
OK, I recently went through the steps to replace a muffler with a good
used muffler.
Well, I got another plane (Tiger) today that needs a muffler. Any good
ideas? What are the going prices?
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Do you know how many hours on it?
-----Original Message-----
From: ktusha(at)gpcom.net
Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Muffler
I have a used muffler which was replaced by powerflow at overhaul a
few months ago. I have no idea what it's worth. i would be interested
in selling it for whatever would be fair.
Ken Tusha
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Do you know how many hours on it?
-----Original Message-----
From: ktusha(at)gpcom.net
Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Muffler
I have a used muffler which was replaced by powerflow at overhaul a
few months ago. I have no idea what it's worth. i would be interested
in selling it for whatever would be fair.
Ken Tusha
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Matterface" <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com> |
Gary
I'm tempted to offer you the one I bought from you last year, but having
just part/ex our Tiger with a three year old Dawley exhaust for another
Tiger with unknown hrs exhaust I think I had better keep it. You know
what you got for that one with risers and heat shroud so don't go over
bidding on anything second hand.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Muffler
Thanks, was that for a new one? did you get it through Dawley? or
through someone else? Got a number?
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: rcmutz(at)msn.com
Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Muffler
Gary,
I replace my Cheetah muffler using Dawley. they have the OEM
equipment, $571 + $150 core charge. Fit perfect.
Richard Mutzman
N399RM 3I7
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Muffler
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
OK, I recently went through the steps to replace a muffler with a good
used muffler.
Well, I got another plane (Tiger) today that needs a muffler. Any good
ideas? What are the going prices?
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtagli
neapril07
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Hi Ian,
Funny how things work out. That was a nice muffler I sold you. Garner
is selling me a new one. I told the owner I was trying to find a used
one and he told me he only wanted a new one. Oh well.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: i.r.m(at)btinternet.com
Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Muffler
Gary
I'm tempted to offer you the one I bought from you last year, but
having just part/ex our Tiger with a three year old Dawleyexhaust for
another Tiger with unknown hrs exhaust I think I had better keep it.
You know what you got for that one with risers and heat shroud so don't
go over bidding on anything second hand.
Ian
----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Muffler
Thanks, was that for a new one? did you get it through Dawley? or
through someone else? Got a number?
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: rcmutz(at)msn.com
Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Muffler
Gary,
I replace my Cheetah muffler using Dawley. they have the OEM
equipment, $571 + $150 core charge. Fit perfect.
Richard Mutzman
N399RM 3I7
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Muffler
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
OK, I recently went through the steps to replace a muffler with a good
used muffler.
Well, I got another plane (Tiger) today that needs a muffler. Any good
ideas? What are the going prices?
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at p; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.mp;
; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
The seller of the EI gauges said he'll take $1000 for all three of
them.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Mutzman" <rcmutz(at)msn.com> |
Gary,
That was for a rebuilt one with paper-work. Their phone number is:
1-800-338-5420
Richard Mutzman
N399RM
_________________________________________________________________
Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year.
Start Today!
http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Mailing address? |
Gary... finally got the reamer, bushing and drill in a box ready to go USPS
Priority....
But... I can't find your mailing address on your web site.
Can you send it to me? ...thanks gil A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Thanks for the info
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: rcmutz(at)msn.com
Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 5:01 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Muffler
Gary,
That was for a rebuilt one with paper-work. Their phone number is:
1-800-338-5420
Richard Mutzman
N399RM
_________________________________________________________________
Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1
year. Start Today!
http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
About a month ago I got a new 4371 to install on a customers plane.
When I installed the nut, it locked up the whole impulse coupling
mechanism. I took some measurements on the new one and compared it to
the old one. It had been manufactured wrong. When I tried to return
it (to Aircraft Spruce), I was given a run-around for 3 days. They
wanted me to talk to someone in the technical department at Unison to
see if I'd installed it in the plane wrong. They (Aircraft Spruce )
couldn't believe I found a manufacturing defect BEFORE it was
installed. I made 30 phone calls to Unison over two days and never got
a reply back. Aircraft Spruce finally just sent me a new mag (I'd
already returned the first new mag).
I got the second new mag yesterday. It's also F'd U. I called Unison
5 times yesterday without anyone answering my call. I finally got
Aircraft Spruce to go through their supplier. Gee, they found out that
pretty much all of the mags made since GE took over have been
manufactured wrong. In the mean time, the next batch of mags is due in
June.
I took a bunch of pics showing the defect just in case someone wanted
to see it. Sending them now to Aircraft Spruce.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: File a defect report |
Isn't there an FAA report that should be filed for this? Something about a
parts manufacture defect report???
If the FAA gets enough feedback maybe pressure fro the FAA could cause the
QC to improve...
Barry reported this week:
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
PS:
I have noticed changes in the THREADS of the (Champion) plug also ... They
have the SAME POOR thread cut as the AUTOLITE (FORD) plugs. Gee, I wonder,
Are both plugs being manufactured by the same company?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: File a defect report |
I think that these are some links to these forms:
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8070-1.pdf
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8010-4.pdf
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/7aab5bad14f9417885256a35006d56b0/057a982793f12d71862569b2005e75e6/$FILE/AC21-9A.pdf
>From what have heard, a lot of these need to be filed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net> |
"About a month ago I got a new 4371 to install on a customers plane.
When I installed the nut, it locked up the whole impulse coupling mechanism.
I took some measurements on the new one and compared it to the old one. It
had been manufactured wrong... Gee, they found out that pretty much all of
the mags made since GE took over have been manufactured wrong."
I hate today's litigious society, but when I see GE totally screw up Unison
with this kind of stuff, I secretly hope someone sues GE till it hurts their
profit margin. Funny how the lawsuits will kill the small guys, but the big
guys can still pull this kind of crap on GA...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Quality Control - Lawsuit? |
Why jump to a lawsuit when an FAA procedure exists?
GA is already in trouble and loosing it's vendors, cf:
Parker Hannifin's was sued over it's vacuum pumps. Incedibly they were
faulted with the crash of an airplane by a less than knowledgeable jury.
Parker Hannifin no longer makes GA vacuum pumps and have pulled other
parts from the market as well.
Remember when Piper and Cessna quit GA bexause of frivelous lawsuits?
Way before pulling the lawsuit trigger why not pull the trigger on the
FAA's own method for enforcing compliance? Keep the attorneys out of it
if at all possible.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 4:22 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 4371 magneto
"About a month ago I got a new 4371 to install on a customers plane.
When I installed the nut, it locked up the whole impulse coupling
mechanism.
I took some measurements on the new one and compared it to the old one.
It
had been manufactured wrong... Gee, they found out that pretty much all
of
the mags made since GE took over have been manufactured wrong."
I hate today's litigious society, but when I see GE totally screw up
Unison
with this kind of stuff, I secretly hope someone sues GE till it hurts
their
profit margin. Funny how the lawsuits will kill the small guys, but the
big
guys can still pull this kind of crap on GA...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4371 magneto |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
You're not serious are you? Who in the hell would benefit from GE
getting sued over screwing up a few mags? For christ's sake, do you
really want to shut down an entire lifestyle for anyone connected to
general aviation? Is this the way you solve all of your concerns with
manufacturing defects? or anything else any time you're not happy with
something? Don't you think it would be just a little bit more
constructive to return the bad ones and let them know we aren't going
to be satisfied with poor quality control?
Do you think putting General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler out of business
would have made the conversion to Toyota, Honda, and Subaru easier?
Or, do you think that just possibly, market forces are strong enough by
themselves to weed out the poor performers?
Ya know, suing everyone just because you can reminds me of a certain
Elliot Stone. He sued everyone related to his plane over a period of a
couple of years. Everyone from the original seller to Fletchair. He
wanted me to replace his windshield. Now, even if I were paid 10 times
my normal shop rate, I wouldn't go near that plane. He eventually sold
his Tiger because no one would sell him parts. or work on his plane.
=======================
on a lighter note . . . . . Aircraft Spruce was very cooperative this
time. I got a return authorization number and a shipper's number.
Yep, Aircraft Spruce picked up the shipping. The only
fly-in-the-ointment is that the new mags won't be available for 3
weeks.
PS. I've been driving General Motors cars since 1967. And that
includes 9 Corvairs (I never lost any money on Corvairs. I bought one
convertible for $6, drove it for a year, and sold it for $150. The
last one I had I put a 400hp 455 Olds Toronado engine and trans in it.
Now, that was fun.). In 40 years I've only had one lemon; it was a car
returned on a lease. My mistake.
-----Original Message-----
From: mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net
Sent: Fri, 4 May 2007 2:22 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 4371 magneto
"About a month ago I got a new 4371 to install on a customers plane.
When I installed the nut, it locked up the whole impulse coupling
mechanism.
I took some measurements on the new one and compared it to the old one.
It
had been manufactured wrong... Gee, they found out that pretty much
all of
the mags made since GE took over have been manufactured wrong."
I hate today's litigious society, but when I see GE totally screw up
Unison
with this kind of stuff, I secretly hope someone sues GE till it hurts
their
profit margin. Funny how the lawsuits will kill the small guys, but
the big
guys can still pull this kind of crap on GA...
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Boyce <tscott165(at)cableone.net> |
I have an annual coming up this month. I would like to buy, borrow,
rent a template for checking the ailerons and eliminating the
repetitive AD. If anyone has one I'd like to hear from you.
Scott
AA5B, 28339
Boise, Id.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Horizontal Support Braces |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
I'm doing an annual on a Tiger that had the braces for the horizontal
replaced last year. The shop that did it is one of the best. However,
the cable tension to the elevator was over 90 lbs (off the scale on my
tensioner).
Should I sue the last guy to work on this plane? Or, do you think it
would be more contructive to correct the problem and let the shop know
what I found so that can correct the source of the mistake?
Damn it, I'm calling my lawyer . . . .
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Support Braces |
I just finished an annual on a Tiger that had the elevator cable tension set
way to high. I think they adjusted it by feel, comparing it to the aileron
cables possibly.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Support Braces
>
> I'm doing an annual on a Tiger that had the braces for the horizontal
> replaced last year. The shop that did it is one of the best. However,
> the cable tension to the elevator was over 90 lbs (off the scale on my
> tensioner).
>
> Should I sue the last guy to work on this plane? Or, do you think it
> would be more contructive to correct the problem and let the shop know
> what I found so that can correct the source of the mistake?
>
> Damn it, I'm calling my lawyer . . . .
> ________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
> --
> 269.6.2/787 - Release Date: 5/3/2007 2:11 PM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Support Braces |
Gary you don't have to have a law degree to be a lawyer in Calefornia
Yes, Calefornia as the governator says it...
Go for it and take over their business!
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Support Braces
I'm doing an annual on a Tiger that had the braces for the horizontal
replaced last year. The shop that did it is one of the best. However,
the cable tension to the elevator was over 90 lbs (off the scale on my
tensioner).
Should I sue the last guy to work on this plane? Or, do you think it
would be more contructive to correct the problem and let the shop know
what I found so that can correct the source of the mistake?
Damn it, I'm calling my lawyer . . . .
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Quality Control - Lawsuit? |
----- Original Message -----
From: 923te
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 11:42 AM
Subject: Quality Control - Lawsuit?
Why jump to a lawsuit when an FAA procedure exists?
GA is already in trouble and loosing it's vendors, cf:
Parker Hannifin's was sued over it's vacuum pumps. Incedibly they were
faulted with the crash of an airplane by a less than knowledgeable jury.
Parker Hannifin no longer makes GA vacuum pumps and have pulled other
parts from the market as well.
Remember when Piper and Cessna quit GA bexause of frivelous lawsuits?
Way before pulling the lawsuit trigger why not pull the trigger on the
FAA's own method for enforcing compliance? Keep the attorneys out of it
if at all possible.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 4:22 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 4371 magneto
"About a month ago I got a new 4371 to install on a customers plane.
When I installed the nut, it locked up the whole impulse coupling
mechanism.
I took some measurements on the new one and compared it to the old one.
It
had been manufactured wrong... Gee, they found out that pretty much all
of
the mags made since GE took over have been manufactured wrong."
I hate today's litigious society, but when I see GE totally screw up
Unison
with this kind of stuff, I secretly hope someone sues GE till it hurts
their
profit margin. Funny how the lawsuits will kill the small guys, but the
big
guys can still pull this kind of crap on GA...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Thomas" <andy747(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron AMOC |
Scott,
If you don't come up with a better offer you can use mine for postage....
Andy Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Boyce" <tscott165(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Aileron AMOC
>
>
> I have an annual coming up this month. I would like to buy, borrow, rent
> a template for checking the ailerons and eliminating the repetitive AD.
> If anyone has one I'd like to hear from you.
>
> Scott
> AA5B, 28339
> Boise, Id.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
Gary,
I didn't know you were a corvair nut...Me too. Dad still has 5 at the
house. One I learned to drive in a 65 Corsa. One he is putting a Fiero
rearend under with a 4.9 aluminum block in it...Dad's 83....so it's
taking awhile...
I sure would like to take a ride in your 400hp Totonado powerd
corvair...must a been a real rocket, corvette eater
Did yours look like this one:
http://www.mts.net/~lhonke/pbruce.htm
PS. I've been driving General Motors cars since 1967. And that
includes 9 Corvairs (I never lost any money on Corvairs. I bought one
convertible for $6, drove it for a year, and sold it for $150. The
last one I had I put a 400hp 455 Olds Toronado engine and trans in it.
Now, that was fun.). In 40 years I've only had one lemon; it was a car
returned on a lease. My mistake
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
3'rd try
Why jump to a lawsuit when an FAA procedure exists?
GA is already in trouble and loosing it's vendors, cf:
Parker Hannifin's was sued over it's vacuum pumps. Incedibly they were
faulted with the crash of an airplane by a less than knowledgeable jury.
Parker Hannifin no longer makes GA vacuum pumps and have pulled other
parts from the market as well.
Remember when Piper and Cessna quit GA bexause of frivelous lawsuits?
Way before pulling the lawsuit trigger why not pull the trigger on the
FAA's own method for enforcing compliance? Keep the attorneys out of it
if at all possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Support Braces |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
When I was rerigging the cables, I noticed that if I put the center
pulley on the cable tensioner on the pulley's axel, it read about 40
lbs. My guess is whoever did it didn't know how to use the tensioner.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Sent: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Support Braces
I just finished an annual on a Tiger that had the elevator cable
tension set way to high. I think they adjusted it by feel, comparing it
to the aileron cables possibly.
Cliff
----- Original Message ----- From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Horizontal Support Braces
>
> I'm doing an annual on a Tiger that had the braces for the
horizontal > replaced last year. The shop that did it is one of the
best. However, > the cable tension to the elevator was over 90 lbs (off
the scale on my > tensioner).
>
> Should I sue the last guy to work on this plane? Or, do you think it
> would be more contructive to correct the problem and let the shop
know > what I found so that can correct the source of the mistake?
>
> Damn it, I'm calling my lawyer . . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- > 269.6.2/787 - Release Date: 5/3/2007 2:11 PM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Mine was white. Same idea though.
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Corvairs
Gary,
I didn't know you were a corvair nut...Me too. Dad still has 5 at the
house. One I learned to drive in a 65 Corsa. One he is putting a Fiero
rearend under with a 4.9 aluminum block in it...Dad's 83....so it's
taking awhile...
I sure would like to take a ride in your 400hp Totonado powerd
corvair...must a been a real rocket, corvette eater
Did yours look like this one:
http://www.mts.net/~lhonke/pbruce.htm
PS. I've been driving General Motors cars since 1967. And that
includes 9 Corvairs (I never lost any money on Corvairs. I bought one
convertible for $6, drove it for a year, and sold it for $150. The
last one I had I put a 400hp 455 Olds Toronado engine and trans in it.
Now, that was fun.). In 40 years I've only had one lemon; it was a car
returned on a lease. My mistake
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Mutzman" <rcmutz(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aviation Lawsuits |
Gary,
I agree with you a 100%. Usually when I have a problem, I keep working with
the company and up the chain until I get resolution that I feel comfortable
with, and this usually works. Only one time did I actually sue someone.
That was when I put a deposit down for a painting my plane, the guy went out
of business (ask Sandbag about it..), and I put a suit in so if and when he
finally files bankruptcy, I may get 10 cents on the dollar back. From what
I have heard, he has run out of the state, owes the state back taxes, and
will never return, so I don't really expect to get anything back, but hey,
it made me feel comfortable. Sea le vi...
Richard Mutzman
N399RM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 4371 magneto
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
You're not serious are you? Who in the hell would benefit from GE
getting sued over screwing up a few mags? For christ's sake, do you
really want to shut down an entire lifestyle for anyone connected to
general aviation? Is this the way you solve all of your concerns with
manufacturing defects? or anything else any time you're not happy with
something? Don't you think it would be just a little bit more
constructive to return the bad ones and let them know we aren't going
to be satisfied with poor quality control?
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
I had a 66 Mazda convertable that my cousin and I restored. Well really it
was mostly him... Finally sold it to his brother then another freind of his.
It was a fun car. My cousin had a project he did with a Corvair van that had
a V8 engine in the bed. He had to put wheelie bars on it to keep it on the
road. He did another one with a Ford Econoline Pick-Up, same trick V8 engine
in the bed. I think he finally crashed that one in a rollover... The things
we did when we were young... :) Last summer he and I flew into OSH with 64L.
We prop go to OSH with 64L again this year but land somewhere else... :)
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L soon to be N641HY
----Original Message Follows----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Corvairs
Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 03:55:33 -0400
Mine was white. Same idea though.
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Corvairs
Gary,
I didn't know you were a corvair nut...Me too. Dad still has 5 at the
house. One I learned to drive in a 65 Corsa. One he is putting a Fiero
rearend under with a 4.9 aluminum block in it...Dad's 83....so it's taking
awhile...
I sure would like to take a ride in your 400hp Totonado powerd
corvair...must a been a real rocket, corvette eater
Did yours look like this one:
http://www.mts.net/~lhonke/pbruce.htm
PS. I've been driving General Motors cars since 1967. And that
includes 9 Corvairs (I never lost any money on Corvairs. I bought one
convertible for $6, drove it for a year, and sold it for $150. The
last one I had I put a 400hp 455 Olds Toronado engine and trans in it.
Now, that was fun.). In 40 years I've only had one lemon; it was a car
returned on a lease. My mistake
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
Just a heads up on Fon Du Lac. Lot's of war birds land there.
I think Oshkosh is safer to land at then Fon Du Lac. Osh has many more volunteers
helping. I watched a P51 taxi right into a brand new Commander 114 at Fon Du
Lac. The rudder went staight up about 300'. It was a clean cut leaving no damage
to the vertical stabilizer OR the propeller on the P51
In any event Osh approach and landing is an unforgettable experience. I've done
it 4 times, 3 of those in my Tiger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
Wow I did not know that. I'll keep that in mind. If I do go back to OSH I'll
break the arm of any groundspeople who want to help me push my plane.
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Corvairs
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:42:57 -0400
Just a heads up on Fon Du Lac. Lot's of war birds land there.
I think Oshkosh is safer to land at then Fon Du Lac. Osh has many more
volunteers helping. I watched a P51 taxi right into a brand new Commander
114 at Fon Du Lac. The rudder went staight up about 300'. It was a clean cut
leaving no damage to the vertical stabilizer OR the propeller on the P51
In any event Osh approach and landing is an unforgettable experience. I've
done it 4 times, 3 of those in my Tiger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lehman" <lehmans(at)sympatico.ca> |
Sounds like a common error; my Traveler had both the elevator and aileron
cable tension at twice the spec value. (Rudder cable tension was OK but,
since springs limit the tension, it can't get set grossly wrong.)
Mike
I just finished an annual on a Tiger that had the elevator cable tension set
way to high. I think they adjusted it by feel, comparing it to the aileron
cables possibly.
Cliff
>
> I'm doing an annual on a Tiger that had the braces for the horizontal
> replaced last year. The shop that did it is one of the best. However,
> the cable tension to the elevator was over 90 lbs (off the scale on my
> tensioner).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aviation Lawsuits |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for everything. At this
place and time, educating GE on how to be successful is in ALL our best
interests.
-----Original Message-----
From: rcmutz(at)msn.com
Sent: Sat, 5 May 2007 6:17 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Aviation Lawsuits
Gary,
I agree with you a 100%. Usually when I have a problem, I keep working
with the company and up the chain until I get resolution that I feel
comfortable with, and this usually works. Only one time did I actually
sue someone. That was when I put a deposit down for a painting my
plane, the guy went out of business (ask Sandbag about it..), and I put
a suit in so if and when he finally files bankruptcy, I may get 10
cents on the dollar back. From what I have heard, he has run out of the
state, owes the state back taxes, and will never return, so I don't
really expect to get anything back, but hey, it made me feel
comfortable. Sea le vi...
Richard Mutzman
N399RM
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net> |
"Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for everything. At this
place and time, educating GE on how to be successful is in ALL our best
interests."
Jeesh! I think people need to lighten up a bit and actually read more than
the first sentence regarding my previous post about suing GE. I cannot
believe the flame war I started!
My family had a business that has worked with GE Corporate in the past. GE
cares for nothing but the bottom line. IMHO, the only way to "educate" the
GE suits is to effect their annual bonus (via the 'bottom line'.) All I was
inferring was an FAA SDR on a product line that doesn't even show up in the
margins of their spreadsheets is unlikely to get their attention.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Metal-to-metal bonding |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
I'm in the process of getting an STC to repair the horizontal bracing
using an approved metal-to-metal bonding similar to that used to make
the part in the first place. This wll eliminate the row of rivets down
the side. Plus, the fuel tank sealant currently being used is not a
bonding agent and the rivets being used are only a fraction of the
strength of the original bonding.
Does anyone know what the name, maunfacture, and the bonding strength
characteristics (shear and tensile strengths) of the bonding material
used in our planes? A lot has happened since metal-to-metal bonding of
our planes began. Today, there are several approved procedures. I
just need to find one that meets or exceeds the original specifications.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Matterface" <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal-to-metal bonding |
On my tour of Chem Fab they said they used Hysol 9309 Epoxy paste
http://www.loctite.com/int_henkel/loctite/binarydata/pdf/Hysol_EA_9309_3N
A.pdf for cold bonding to fill any after bonding voids or in areas where
hot bonding wasn't needed or couldn't be done. I assume you are talking
about cold bonding. From what they were saying to get any approval at
that time for using this stuff for field repairs was almost impossible
due to the stringent controls on preparation and proper priming of the
surfaces. I did ask them if it was going to be possible to use it for
bond repairs and they indicated it would most likely be included in
Tiger's maintenance manual once they had their production certificate,
but I never saw it produced.
Ian
MatAir
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:32 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Metal-to-metal bonding
I'm in the process of getting an STC to repair the horizontal bracing
using an approved metal-to-metal bonding similar to that used to make
the part in the first place. This wll eliminate the row of rivets down
the side. Plus, the fuel tank sealant currently being used is not a
bonding agent and the rivets being used are only a fraction of the
strength of the original bonding.
Does anyone know what the name, maunfacture, and the bonding strength
characteristics (shear and tensile strengths) of the bonding material
used in our planes? A lot has happened since metal-to-metal bonding of
our planes began. Today, there are several approved procedures. I
just need to find one that meets or exceeds the original specifications.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal-to-metal bonding |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Hi Ian, The DER with whom I am working (one of them) is a structural
engineer. He is really into current methods of metal-to-metal bonding.
I need the previous hot bonding specs so we can make a 'same form,
fit, and function' comparison. I'll check out the .pdf you referenced
and see if that helps me.
Thanks a bunch.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: i.r.m(at)btinternet.com
Sent: Wed, 9 May 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Metal-to-metal bonding
On my tour of Chem Fab they said they used Hysol 9309 Epoxy paste
http://www.loctite.com/int_henkel/loctite/binarydata/pdf/Hysol_EA_9309_3NA.pdffor
cold bonding to fill any after bonding voids or in areas where hot
bonding wasn't needed or couldn't be done. I assume you are talking
about cold bonding. >From what they were saying to get anyapproval at
that time for using this stuff for field repairs was almost impossible
due to the stringent controls on preparation and proper priming of the
surfaces. I did ask them if it was going to be possible to use it for
bond repairs and they indicated it would most likely be included in
Tiger's maintenance manual once they had their production certificate,
but I never saw it produced.
Ian
MatAir
----- Original Message ----- From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:32 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Metal-to-metal bonding
I'm in the process of getting an STC to repair the horizontal bracing
using an approved metal-to-metal bonding similar to that used to make
the part in the first place. This wll eliminate the row of rivets down
the side. Plus, the fuel tank sealant currently being used is not a
bonding agent and the rivets being used are only a fraction of the
strength of the original bonding.
Does anyone know what the name, maunfacture, and the bonding strength
characteristics (shear and tensile strengths) of the bonding material
used in our planes? A lot has happened since metal-to-metal bonding of
our planes began. Today, there are several approved procedures. I
just need to find one that meets or exceeds the original specifications.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at p; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.mp;
; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4371 magneto |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
I got anohter new mag today. It's an 0704xxxx series magneto. I
installed the gear just like I thought it should be. Everything looks
good. Now all I need is a few days to finish resealing the tank Then
I'll be done; with this one. It's taken a lot of lipstick and polish,
but, at least it's airworthy.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Sent: Thu, 10 May 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: 4371 magneto
Gary, send me a photo of the mag.
Thanks,
Cliff
----- Original Message ----- From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 4371 magneto
>
> About a month ago I got a new 4371 to install on a customers plane.
When > I installed the nut, it locked up the whole impulse coupling
mechanism. I > took some measurements on the new one and compared it to
the old one. It > had been manufactured wrong. When I tried to return
it (to Aircraft > Spruce), I was given a run-around for 3 days. They
wanted me to talk to > someone in the technical department at Unison to
see if I'd installed it > in the plane wrong. They (Aircraft Spruce )
couldn't believe I found a > manufacturing defect BEFORE it was
installed. I made 30 phone calls to > Unison over two days and never
got a reply back. Aircraft Spruce finally > just sent me a new mag (I'd
already returned the first new mag).
>
> I got the second new mag yesterday. It's also F'd U. I called Unison
5 > times yesterday without anyone answering my call. I finally got
Aircraft > Spruce to go through their supplier. Gee, they found out
that pretty much > all of the mags made since GE took over have been
manufactured wrong. In > the mean time, the next batch of mags is due
in June.
>
> I took a bunch of pics showing the defect just in case someone
wanted to > see it. Sending them now to Aircraft Spruce.
>
________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
269.6.2/787 - Release Date: 5/3/2007 2:11 PM
>
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Cliff, I am doing an annual on a Tiger with a Dawley muffler. It too
is hitting the cowling. This hits at about the 9 to 10 o'clock
position. I wonder if the tooling is messed up.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system |
On the Tiger I just installed the rebuilt muffler on the outlet pipe hit the
cowling at the aft end and slightly to the inside of the original slot.
Essentially the pipe is welded on to the can at to acute or shallow of an
angle. Probably 5 degrees off would do it. I talked to Steve at Dawley
(the salesman) and he wanted to argue with me about maybe it wasn't the
fault of the muffler! But did say that if I sent it back they would build a
new one.
The customer did not want to wait that long and since he is planning on
installing a Power Flow exhaust later on we decided to enlarge the hole in
the cowling to fit since it will be patched later on. I had to cut
completely through the inside doubler ring and about 1" aft of that to get
even a reasonable amount of clearance around the pipe. In total the hole
was elongated about 2" further aft and skewed to the inside. I riveted a
doubler back on the inside to regain most of the rigidity from cutting out
the original doubler ring that is spot welded on. I had the cowling off and
on at least 4 times to get the hole the right size without making it any
larger than necessary. The now larger hole at the front of the pipe should
probably be covered with baffling material or a fairing like Plazak sells,
at least to make it look better.
Dawley was the manufacturer for Tiger aircraft mufflers on the AG5B and I'm
wondering if there is a difference or something was changed for them from
what the old AA-5B configuration is. I took some pictures and am planning
on writing a letter to Dawley about the situation. And based on this
experience I'm not sure I want to buy any more mufflers from Dawley.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:17 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Exhaust system
>
> Cliff, I am doing an annual on a Tiger with a Dawley muffler. It too is
> hitting the cowling. This hits at about the 9 to 10 o'clock position. I
> wonder if the tooling is messed up.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
> --
> 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 5/15/2007 10:47 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
Why don't you guys take the time to fill out a Service Difficulty Report?
It might help for Dawley to get some pressure from the FAA to improve their
QC. Maybe it would help keep other customers from getting a bad fitting
muffler.
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8070-1.pdf
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8010-4.pdf
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/7aab5bad14f9417885256a35006d56b0/057a982793f12d71862569b2005e75e6/$FILE/AC21-9A.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system |
Not a bad idea. I think I'll do that.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:51 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Exhaust system
>
> Why don't you guys take the time to fill out a Service Difficulty Report?
>
> It might help for Dawley to get some pressure from the FAA to improve
> their
> QC. Maybe it would help keep other customers from getting a bad fitting
> muffler.
>
> http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8070-1.pdf
>
> http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8010-4.pdf
>
> http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/7aab5bad14f9417885256a35006d56b0/057a982793f12d71862569b2005e75e6/$FILE/AC21-9A.pdf
>
>
> --
> 10:47 AM
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 79 Tiger for sale |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Here are a few specs.
1979 Tiger with approx 1855 TT and 100 SMOH by Lycon, dyno'd over 200hp
Senich Prop
KX-155
Upsat Gx-60 IFR GPS/Com
King DME
King Transponder
JPI engine monitor with fuel flow coupled to GPS
Original Paint, Interior and Glass
Haven't come up with a price yet but, more than likely, something in
the low to mid 70s.
Let me know if you want a pic
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Campbell <airman(at)appledumplings.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Alternate Compliance |
I am currently doing an anual on my 76 Tiger. My mechanic is wondering
about how the Alternate compliance letter for the Aileron repetitive AD I
have given him ties back to the FAA.
Since on the letter it does not seem to have a reference to the governing
body
of the original AD. Do any of you guys that have Signed off this Alternate
Compliance have an answer for this.
#2 Question ...
On the Flaps thre is a plate(roller plate?!?) about halfway in that is
riveted .. My question is ... Is it supposed to be riveted(if so what
kind) or bonded? And Should there be a matching plate on the wing?
Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Alternate Compliance |
Would this be what you are looking for:
http://www.approachaviation.com/common_images/SI_06_01_Approval_letter.jpg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Campbell" <airman(at)appledumplings.com>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Aileron Alternate Compliance
I am currently doing an anual on my 76 Tiger. My mechanic is wondering
about how the Alternate compliance letter for the Aileron repetitive AD I
have given him ties back to the FAA.
Since on the letter it does not seem to have a reference to the governing
body
of the original AD. Do any of you guys that have Signed off this Alternate
Compliance have an answer for this.
#2 Question ...
On the Flaps thre is a plate(roller plate?!?) about halfway in that is
riveted .. My question is ... Is it supposed to be riveted(if so what
kind) or bonded? And Should there be a matching plate on the wing?
Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Alternate Compliance |
A letter, dated August 3, 2006, from the Manager, New York Certification
Office to John Rock at Tiger Aircraft authorizes their SI-06-01 as
acceptable for an AMOC to AD 79-22-04. What more authorization do you need?
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Campbell" <airman(at)appledumplings.com>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Aileron Alternate Compliance
>
>
> I am currently doing an anual on my 76 Tiger. My mechanic is wondering
> about how the Alternate compliance letter for the Aileron repetitive AD I
> have given him ties back to the FAA.
> Since on the letter it does not seem to have a reference to the governing
> body
> of the original AD. Do any of you guys that have Signed off this Alternate
> Compliance have an answer for this.
>
>
> #2 Question ...
>
> On the Flaps thre is a plate(roller plate?!?) about halfway in that is
> riveted .. My question is ... Is it supposed to be riveted(if so what
> kind) or bonded? And Should there be a matching plate on the wing?
>
> Thomas
>
>
> --
> 7:54 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | IAN MATTERFACE <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Alternate Compliance |
Yes if you go to the AYA web site I think there is a copy of the signed FAA acceptance
letter to Tiger aircraft.
Ian
Thomas Campbell wrote:
I am currently doing an anual on my 76 Tiger. My mechanic is wondering
about how the Alternate compliance letter for the Aileron repetitive AD I
have given him ties back to the FAA.
Since on the letter it does not seem to have a reference to the governing
body
of the original AD. Do any of you guys that have Signed off this Alternate
Compliance have an answer for this.
#2 Question ...
On the Flaps thre is a plate(roller plate?!?) about halfway in that is
riveted .. My question is ... Is it supposed to be riveted(if so what
kind) or bonded? And Should there be a matching plate on the wing?
Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | IAN MATTERFACE <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Alternate Compliance |
Having looked again myself I can't find it on the AYA web site, so check out http://www.approachaviation.com/common_images/SI_06_01_Approval_letter.jpg
which is the approval letter from the FAA. Sorry for that.
Ian
MatAir
Thomas Campbell wrote:
I am currently doing an anual on my 76 Tiger. My mechanic is wondering
about how the Alternate compliance letter for the Aileron repetitive AD I
have given him ties back to the FAA.
Since on the letter it does not seem to have a reference to the governing
body
of the original AD. Do any of you guys that have Signed off this Alternate
Compliance have an answer for this.
#2 Question ...
On the Flaps thre is a plate(roller plate?!?) about halfway in that is
riveted .. My question is ... Is it supposed to be riveted(if so what
kind) or bonded? And Should there be a matching plate on the wing?
Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Alternate Compliance |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Thomas, go out and look at a few Tigers/Cheetahs/Travelers. You'll
notice a rub strip on both the wing and the flap. They are both
riveted in place. Without the strip, it's possible to lock the flap in
the down position, wedged against the wing, when you deploy the flaps
during landing. The flap really bows out.
As for the AMOC. I would find a Grumman mechanic that is familiar with
the previous ADs and their requirements for compliance. If your
mechanic is not familiar with the plane, Grummans in general, well, I
wouldn't trust him. There is plenty f information in the AMOC to
complete the task.
-----Original Message-----
From: airman(at)appledumplings.com
Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Aileron Alternate Compliance
I am currently doing an anual on my 76 Tiger. My mechanic is wondering
about how the Alternate compliance letter for the Aileron repetitive AD
I
have given him ties back to the FAA.
Since on the letter it does not seem to have a reference to the
governing
body
of the original AD. Do any of you guys that have Signed off this
Alternate
Compliance have an answer for this.
#2 Question ...
On the Flaps thre is a plate(roller plate?!?) about halfway in that is
riveted .. My question is ... Is it supposed to be riveted(if so what
kind) or bonded? And Should there be a matching plate on the wing?
Thomas
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denham, Bobby D." <BDDenham(at)lasd.org> |
Want info info on 79" Tiger
79 Tiger
Want info info on 79" Tiger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
-----Original Message-----
From: BDDenham(at)lasd.org
Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 2:22 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 79 Tiger
Want info info on 79" Tiger
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Hey Bobby, I sent them through TeamGrumman-List and at least one was
rejected for being too big. So, I sent them to your email. You may
get a lot of pictures.
-----Original Message-----
From: BDDenham(at)lasd.org
Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 2:22 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: 79 Tiger
Want info info on 79" Tiger
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hall" <jhall2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Installing Gary's Eyebrow |
I'm going to get around to installing Gary's Eyebrown in my Cheetah "real
soon now". I have a couple of questions.
1. I've made a sheet metal box of my own design to replace the cheesy
plastic thing on the left side of the cockpit. My box splits into a back
piece which all the electrical stuff mounts to and a front piece (with the
placard about spinning and stuff) which is attached to the back piece with
tiny sheet metal screws. It will have three circuit breakers, a 5 A for the
ultravision lights under the eyebrow, a 1 A for the new map light, and
another 1 A for a noise cancelling headset power outlet. The question: How
should I mount the box to the honeycomb? I don't want to drill, and I don't
want to glue the box on so I can't get it off. I need access to the back of
the back piece to attach or remove the light. I'm thinking click bond
studs, which may be way over kill. Other suggestions?
2. Using Gary's wiring diagram, I'm considering running the map light off
of 51LA2 and putting a switch (also connected to 51LA2) to turn the dome
light on with 5LA5. That puts the map light and new breaker in series with
the 5 A fuse mounted on the battery box. Is this a big no no? (two failure
points, but only for non essential lights, still...) Maybe I need to run a
new wire from the bus to run the light through the breaker, and just use
51LA2 and 5LA5 for the dome light alone. I have to run a new wire to the
bus for the ultravisions anyway so I could just create a mini bus inside my
box for the three new breakers. Any suggestions? Comments?
3. I hate the cheesy red lights on the two side panels and on the standard
eyebrow and plan to dump them and just keep the compass light. I'm guessing
that 51LB6 is the left side light which will be eliminated and that 51LB4
goes to both the compass light and the right side panel light. Is that
correct?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jim Hall
N9744U (STILL with the crummy factory eyebrow.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TeamGrumman(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Installing Gary's Eyebrow |
Jim, you're making it way too complicated. But, I guess to each his own.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hall" <jhall2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Installing Gary's Eyebrow |
Simplify it for me!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TeamGrumman(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Installing Gary's Eyebrow
Jim, you're making it way too complicated. But, I guess to each his own.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TeamGrumman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Installing Gary's Eyebrow |
I think I have the instructions on my web site. make the installation look clean.
just like it would have been done if it were a clean sheet.
First, the side pieces don't need to be there at all. In fact, on my plane, I
have a pen pocket in that corner.
Finding a place for the Ultravision controller and switches is a problem. Look
at Bill Kelly's plane, under Projects, his is the AA1 instruemtn panel I did.
There are a lot of variations to this. To be sure. I don't remember what your
panel looks like, or how crowded it is, so, I really don't know where would
be the best place. Still, the instructions on my web site can give you a few
ideas.
Gary
PS, Call if you need help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hall" <jhall2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Installing Gary's Eyebrow |
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | New Cowling Status? |
Gary,
Can't find any updates on your new cowling on the website. Have you mounted
one up yet?
TIA,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TeamGrumman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Cowling Status? |
Very good question: Yea, I really should do an update on my web site. I wish
I had the time.
Brina Sandberg brought his plane from Maryland to California to get the first
production cowling.
It isn't certified yet, still waiting on the Aircraft Certification Office in
Long Beach. They have had the project since November. They still haven't even
said if they accept or reject the Project Plan.
The second production cowling is for a 6-cylinder Tiger. It's 2 1/2 inches longer.
That cowling will begin the layup stage next week . . . right after the
first cowling is finished.
I have the drawings started for new wheel pants.
I'll be displaying my plane (with my cowling) in Watsonville in the Experimental
section. That should be interesting.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Cowling Status? |
Thanks for the cowling update, Gary. Sorry, but now that I have your
attention I have a few more questions!
1) Is it your intent to produce the cowling for the 4-bangers on-demand?
Since there are only a couple 6-bangers around, this sounds like custom work
only...
2) Are you still looking at $5 - $6K per cowling?
3) First I heard about new wheel pants. Great idea! Sign me up on your
waiting list. Are you going to put some kind of access for easier air
fills?
4) Are you ever going to put together a baffling kit based on your
beautiful work displayed on your website? I live and work in VA, and don't
have the time to ferry 33R to the west coast for your personal expertise,
but desperately need an upgrade in baffling.
5) On your website you mention cutting back the baffling straps on 3 & 4
for better cooling. Do you have any photos of this operation for guidance?
Since it looks like we are going to have to suck up either higher user fees,
or higher gas taxes, or both, I have reconsidered upgrading aircraft and
probably going to stick with my Tiger for another 10 years. Having said
that, I am now thinking about your new cowling with the MT 3-bladed prop...
TIA...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TeamGrumman(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: New Cowling Status? |
>1) Is it your intent to produce the cowling for the 4-bangers on-demand?
>Since there are only a couple 6-bangers around, this sounds like custom work
>only...
- - - - the tooling was made to make it possible to produce either cowling.
>2) Are you still looking at $5 - $6K per cowling?
- - - - The initial buy-in for the pre-production cowling is $6000. Once they
are certified, my costs go up by a factor of 3. The guy fabricating the cowlings
promissed me the first 5 will be at a discounted rate to help me recover
cost. There is no way I can recover the $75,000 I have invested in 5 cowlings.
I still plan on keeping the cost of the next 10 to around $8000. If the price
has to go up, it has to go up.
>3) First I heard about new wheel pants. Great idea! Sign me up on your
>waiting list. Are you going to put some kind of access for easier air
>fills?
- - - - Everyone wants to be able to put air in easily. I don't think there is
any problem with the current design. We'll see.
>4) Are you ever going to put together a baffling kit based on your
>beautiful work displayed on your website? I live and work in VA, and don't
>have the time to ferry 33R to the west coast for your personal expertise,
>but desperately need an upgrade in baffling.
- - - - I made baffles and baffle seals for a guy in New Hampshire. He sent me
all his stuff and I built the baffles. I'm sure if you follow the pics (oh,
and, by-the-way, I have an updated page for baffle installations. It may be
a while until it's on the web though.)
>5) On your website you mention cutting back the baffling straps on 3 & 4
>for better cooling. Do you have any photos of this operation for guidance?
- - - - other than the close-ups of the baffles. No.
>Since it looks like we are going to have to suck up either higher user fees,
>or higher gas taxes, or both, I have reconsidered upgrading aircraft and
>probably going to stick with my Tiger for another 10 years. Having said
>that, I am now thinking about your new cowling with the MT 3-bladed prop...
- - - - The 3-bladed prop won't really get you $15,000 worth of savings. When
I flew to Auburn with Brian in his plane, at the same speed & rpm (or props are
matched exactly) I was get 1 to 1.8 gallons per hour less than he was.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Bad Pilot Seat Tracks |
Looking for some advice. I have tried just about everything, and spent
countless hours "tweaking" the seat rails in my Tiger. I have the passenger
seat working PERFECTLY, but the pilot side is a disaster. The pawls refuse
to engage properly. Will only hold on two sets of holes, neither of which
are comfortable for flying. Looks like previous owners have made one too
many field repairs...
Any suggestions? Is it worth disassembling and installing new hardware (if
I can find any), or just find a serviceable salvage seat bottom assembly?
TIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TeamGrumman(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Pilot Seat Tracks |
A few years ago I got a plane that the pawls on the pilots seat just would not
line up correctly. I installed a different set of hardware with an offset on
the pivot to move the pivot point over about a 1/4 of an inch. It was a lot better,
but not as smooth as I would have liked. It looked like the original holes
had been misaligned or mis-drilled. Some of the seats just seem to be drilled
better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Boyce <tscott165(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Pilot Seat Tracks |
I had a problem with a bad pilot seat. Fletchair sold me a
replacement from their used inventory.
On May 27, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Mark Thomas Mueller wrote:
>
>
> Looking for some advice. I have tried just about everything, and
> spent
> countless hours "tweaking" the seat rails in my Tiger. I have the
> passenger
> seat working PERFECTLY, but the pilot side is a disaster. The
> pawls refuse
> to engage properly. Will only hold on two sets of holes, neither
> of which
> are comfortable for flying. Looks like previous owners have made
> one too
> many field repairs...
>
> Any suggestions? Is it worth disassembling and installing new
> hardware (if
> I can find any), or just find a serviceable salvage seat bottom
> assembly?
>
> TIA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Canuck Tiger for sale |
| From: | bigbajon(at)AOL.COM |
http://www3.sympatico.ca/doug_raine/Buy_and_Sell.html
________________________________________________________________________
Need a free e-mail account? Get one now at Mail.AOL.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canuck Tiger for sale (UPDATE) |
| From: | bigbajon(at)AOL.COM |
Ooops..
Turns out the link is old...dunno if the contact info is current in the link
but the first person (Ray.P) has an ad in COPA. (just checked & the phone #
is the same; email may not be correct)
Bird has 1847 SMOH, fresh annual, 49k.
---- Original Message ----
From: bigbajon(at)aol.com
Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 8:28 pm
Subject: Canuck Tiger for sale
http://www3.sympatico.ca/doug_raine/Buy_and_Sell.html
Free radio, music, videos, news & entertainment =93 with a Canadian
perspective. Meet the new AOL.ca
________________________________________________________________________
Need a free e-mail account? Get one now at Mail.AOL.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Boyce <tscott165(at)cableone.net> |
I have a main wheel off to fix a flat and greased the bearings while
I was at it. This is a 1977 Tiger. Have a question about the washers
and felt seals. The pictures on Bondline did not help. On the inner
part the bearing goes in then a washer 153-0400, felt seal, another
153-0400, and snapring just like my old Cherokee. The outer is
different. Seal retainer 153-01500 is C-shaped and holds the felt
ring. I assume felt faces outward and the metal surface of the washer
faces inward, then the 1530300 washer and snapring. Believe me I was
careful taking this apart but the parts were mixed, not at all like
in the parts manual.
Anybody care to share the correct reassembly order. PIctures in the
parts and service manuals are not in fine enough detail.
Scott
AA5B, 28339
Boise, Id
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tiger Wheels |
The outer is
> different. Seal retainer 153-01500 is C-shaped and holds the felt ring. I
> assume felt faces outward and the metal surface of the washer faces
> inward, then the 1530300 washer and snapring.
The felt faces inward and runs against the washer, which is slightly smaller
in diameter than the washer on the brake disc side.
Cliff A&P/IA
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Boyce <tscott165(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tiger Wheels |
Thank you Cliff. So the flat washer goes in against the bearing, then
the retainer with the felt ring, felt side first, then the snap ring,
if I understand you correctly. What exactly does the felt ring seal?
Just keep grease from slinging out?
Scott
On Jun 2, 2007, at 6:24 PM, flyv35b wrote:
>
>
> The outer is
>> different. Seal retainer 153-01500 is C-shaped and holds the felt
>> ring. I assume felt faces outward and the metal surface of the
>> washer faces inward, then the 1530300 washer and snapring.
>
> The felt faces inward and runs against the washer, which is
> slightly smaller in diameter than the washer on the brake disc side.
>
> Cliff A&P/IA
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tiger Wheels |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
I see more of these installed wrong than any other piece on the plane.
It's right up there with the nose gear stuff being installed wrong.
When installed correctly, the larger diameter 'washers', both inside
and outside, go on the inside of the wheel. If in doubt, make sure
they slide over the axle all the way past the step in the axle. If it
catches on the step on the axle, and won't go past it, it's wrong. Use
Shell 22 grease. The idea of the inner felt seal is that the inside
diameter of the felt seal rides on the portion of the axle just past
the step. It seals against the axle.
The outer washer has a slightly smaller outside diameter and a smaller
inside diameter. It should NOT slide over the step on the axle. The
idea here is that the outer washer provides the surface against which
the nut crushes the roller bearing against the step on the axle.
Properly adjusted, you'll get about 1 to 2 rotations out of the tire
when rotated firmly. Any looser than that and there will be no preload
on the bearing. By-the-way, that bearing is so over engineered for its
purpose that there is no way to describe it. The dust seal, that felt
in the cup, rotates with the wheel. The washer does not; it is crushed
between the inner bearing roller and the nut. Dust is kept from
bearing along the moving surface.
After packing the bearing with Shell 22, place the bearing in the race,
pack some grease in the area around the outside of the beaing, push the
washer in to squeeze out the excess grease, use some of that grease to
lightly coat the felt (yea, I know the instructions say to use 10
weight oil. That will just run all over the place.) and then install
(1) the other washer on the inside or (2) the 'c' shaped washer with
the dust seal, and the snap ring.
When tightening the nut remember: the grease will take up some of the
pre-load that will go away after the first landing. The distance
between the flats won't let you over tighten the bearing. Make it
snug, 1 to 2 rotations of the tire.
Good luck
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Boyce <tscott165(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 6:58 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Wheels
Thank you Cliff. So the flat washer goes in against the bearing, then
the retainer with the felt ring, felt side first, then the snap ring,
if I understand you correctly. What exactly does the felt ring seal?
Just keep grease from slinging out?
Scott
On Jun 2, 2007, at 6:24 PM, flyv35b wrote:
>
> The outer is
>> different. Seal retainer 153-01500 is C-shaped and holds the felt
>> ring. I assume felt faces outward and the metal surface of the >>
washer faces inward, then the 1530300 washer and snapring.
>
> The felt faces inward and runs against the washer, which is >
slightly smaller in diameter than the washer on the brake disc side.
>
> Cliff A&P/IA
>
> -->
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tiger Wheels |
Yes, that's correct. The rotation should occur between the felt and ring
surface. It does keep most of the grease from slinging out and dirt from
getting in but is not what I would call a good seal. The inner felt seal
and two retainers on the brake side seem to do a better job. The best
arrangement that I have seen is a sealed bearing where the seal is bonded to
the bearing cone and rubs and seals on the edge of the bearing race (the
cup) as I have on my Bonanza. It works far better and I don't think the
cost is much more or maybe less than all the parts combined on the other
configuration.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Boyce" <tscott165(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Wheels
>
>
> Thank you Cliff. So the flat washer goes in against the bearing, then the
> retainer with the felt ring, felt side first, then the snap ring, if I
> understand you correctly. What exactly does the felt ring seal? Just keep
> grease from slinging out?
>
> Scott
>
> On Jun 2, 2007, at 6:24 PM, flyv35b wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The outer is
>>> different. Seal retainer 153-01500 is C-shaped and holds the felt
>>> ring. I assume felt faces outward and the metal surface of the washer
>>> faces inward, then the 1530300 washer and snapring.
>>
>> The felt faces inward and runs against the washer, which is slightly
>> smaller in diameter than the washer on the brake disc side.
>>
>> Cliff A&P/IA
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tiger Wheels |
Hi Scott,
While this topic has been covered quite well already, I have uploaded the
Tiger Aircraft LLC Maintenance Manual Chapter 32 which covers the Main
Wheels beginning on page 14 with a nice diagram on page 16 that you may find
useful.
http://members.cox.net/923te/CHAPTER%2032_TEXT%20LANDING%20GEAR.pdf
Regards,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Boyce" <tscott165(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Wheels
I have a main wheel off to fix a flat and greased the bearings while
I was at it. This is a 1977 Tiger. Have a question about the washers
and felt seals. The pictures on Bondline did not help. On the inner
part the bearing goes in then a washer 153-0400, felt seal, another
153-0400, and snapring just like my old Cherokee. The outer is
different. Seal retainer 153-01500 is C-shaped and holds the felt
ring. I assume felt faces outward and the metal surface of the washer
faces inward, then the 1530300 washer and snapring. Believe me I was
careful taking this apart but the parts were mixed, not at all like
in the parts manual.
Anybody care to share the correct reassembly order. PIctures in the
parts and service manuals are not in fine enough detail.
Scott
AA5B, 28339
Boise, Id
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Wow, that has a lot more detail than the old AA5B version I have! Is the
entire manual available online? What about the Parts Man?
Thanks in advance,
Don/AG5B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923te
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Wheels
Hi Scott,
While this topic has been covered quite well already, I have uploaded the
Tiger Aircraft LLC Maintenance Manual Chapter 32 which covers the Main
Wheels beginning on page 14 with a nice diagram on page 16 that you may find
useful.
http://members.cox.net/923te/CHAPTER%2032_TEXT%20LANDING%20GEAR.pdf
Regards,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Boyce" <tscott165(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Wheels
I have a main wheel off to fix a flat and greased the bearings while
I was at it. This is a 1977 Tiger. Have a question about the washers
and felt seals. The pictures on Bondline did not help. On the inner
part the bearing goes in then a washer 153-0400, felt seal, another
153-0400, and snapring just like my old Cherokee. The outer is
different. Seal retainer 153-01500 is C-shaped and holds the felt
ring. I assume felt faces outward and the metal surface of the washer
faces inward, then the 1530300 washer and snapring. Believe me I was
careful taking this apart but the parts were mixed, not at all like
in the parts manual.
Anybody care to share the correct reassembly order. PIctures in the
parts and service manuals are not in fine enough detail.
Scott
AA5B, 28339
Boise, Id
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Can anyone recommend a good IA to do an annual on a Tiger at the Henderson,
NC airport (about 60mi north of Raleigh)? The annual has expired, so I
can't take it anywhere.
Thanks in advance,
Don
AG5B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Can anyone recommend a good IA to do an annual on a Tiger at the Henderson,
NC airport (about 60mi north of Raleigh)? The annual has expired, so I
can't take it anywhere.
Thanks in advance,
Don
AG5B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tiger Annual |
AFAIK, the airplane doesn't give a hoot about the paperwork. ;-)
OK, there's always the ferry permit route for the queasy.
Linn
Don Curry wrote:
>
>Can anyone recommend a good IA to do an annual on a Tiger at the Henderson,
>NC airport (about 60mi north of Raleigh)? The annual has expired, so I
>can't take it anywhere.
>Thanks in advance,
>Don
>AG5B
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Seems I read somewhere that FSDO would NOT (their emphasis) approve a ferry
permit just to get an annual. If somebody knows different, that would be
wonderful news! Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn
Walters
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Annual
AFAIK, the airplane doesn't give a hoot about the paperwork. ;-)
OK, there's always the ferry permit route for the queasy.
Linn
Don Curry wrote:
>
>Can anyone recommend a good IA to do an annual on a Tiger at the Henderson,
>NC airport (about 60mi north of Raleigh)? The annual has expired, so I
>can't take it anywhere.
>Thanks in advance,
>Don
>AG5B
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tiger Annual |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Unless something has changed, all an A&P/IA has to do is fill out the
form saying the annual has expired and the plane is airworthy enough
for a flight to a place for the annual. I've done two. I think Cliff
has done several also.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Curry <currydon(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 5:27 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Annual
Can anyone recommend a good IA to do an annual on a Tiger at the
Henderson,
NC airport (about 60mi north of Raleigh)? The annual has expired, so I
can't take it anywhere.
Thanks in advance,
Don
AG5B
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
I was sure I had read that a ferry permit would not be issued to conduct an
annual, but it appears I was mistaken. I just looked at 14 CFR 21.197, and
it appears likely that it would be approved. I'm planning a trip to the
FSDO this week anyway, so I'll confirm while I'm there. Thanks, Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Annual
Unless something has changed, all an A&P/IA has to do is fill out the
form saying the annual has expired and the plane is airworthy enough
for a flight to a place for the annual. I've done two. I think Cliff
has done several also.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Curry <currydon(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 5:27 pm
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Annual
Can anyone recommend a good IA to do an annual on a Tiger at the
Henderson,
NC airport (about 60mi north of Raleigh)? The annual has expired, so I
can't take it anywhere.
Thanks in advance,
Don
AG5B
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | illustrated wheel parts catalog from Parker |
_http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/pdf/WB05e02.pdf_
(http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/pdf/WB05e02.pdf)
_http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/pdf/WBtc.pdf_
(http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/pdf/WBtc.pdf)
_http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/Universe/book.pdf_
(http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/Universe/book.pdf)
Above are some links to the Cleveland wheel and brake catalogs.
They are well illustrated and have part no. for everything.
The first one is a direct link to the wheel catalog.
The third one links to maintenance and tech info also.
Steve
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Boyce <tscott165(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: illustrated wheel parts catalog from Parker |
Very nice. I found their website but was not able to find the
illustrations. Thanks for the info.
Scott
AA5B, 28339
Boise, ID
On Jun 5, 2007, at 9:13 AM, KahnSG(at)aol.com wrote:
> http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/pdf/WB05e02.pdf
>
> http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/pdf/WBtc.pdf
>
> http://www.parker.com/ag/wbd/cleveland/Universe/book.pdf
>
> Above are some links to the Cleveland wheel and brake catalogs.
> They are well illustrated and have part no. for everything.
> The first one is a direct link to the wheel catalog.
> The third one links to maintenance and tech info also.
>
> Steve
>
>
> See what's free at AOL.com.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Feinstein" <david(at)carneyaviation.com> |
| Subject: | AYA 2007 via New York City |
Many pilots flying to the convention at Glens Falls may want to fly the
Hudson River Class-B exclusion corridor in New York City. The rules are the
same as they always were, with one wrinkle.
There is a description of two possible routes at
http://carneyaviation.com/nyctour/nyctour.htm, including photos of major
landmarks. This route is breathtaking - if you've never flown it, you must
add it to your itinerary.
The wrinkle:
FDC 3/1862 closes the Hudson River route during NY Yankees home games, and
closes the route over La Guardia during Mets games. FSS briefers do not know
when these games are, but controllers do; and NYC police patrol the airspace
in helicopters during the games.
Schedules are here:
Yankees (Hudson R.) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
aMets (LGA transition) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nym
Yankee Stadium 40-49.6N / 73-55.6 W
Shea Stadium (Mets) 40-45.2 N / 73-50.5 W
Feel free to forward this to the Grumman Gang. It's on topic because of the
convention.
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RE: AYA 2007 via New York City |
I just sent the fwd.
If I'm right I have no need to be angry;
If I'm wrong I have no right to be...
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: "David Feinstein" <david(at)carneyaviation.com>
Subject: AYA 2007 via New York City
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:18:01 -0400
Many pilots flying to the convention at Glens Falls may want to fly the
Hudson River Class-B exclusion corridor in New York City. The rules are the
same as they always were, with one wrinkle.
There is a description of two possible routes at
http://carneyaviation.com/nyctour/nyctour.htm, including photos of major
landmarks. This route is breathtaking - if you've never flown it, you must
add it to your itinerary.
The wrinkle:
FDC 3/1862 closes the Hudson River route during NY Yankees home games, and
closes the route over La Guardia during Mets games. FSS briefers do not
know
when these games are, but controllers do; and NYC police patrol the airspace
in helicopters during the games.
Schedules are here:
Yankees (Hudson R.) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
aMets (LGA transition) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nym
Yankee Stadium 40-49.6N / 73-55.6 W
Shea Stadium (Mets) 40-45.2 N / 73-50.5 W
Feel free to forward this to the Grumman Gang. It's on topic because of the
convention.
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
ne-grumman mailing list
ne-grumman(at)mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/ne-grumman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mattd <mattd(at)drahz.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AYA 2007 via New York City |
Just as an additional note - since the diagram on the carney site was
created, the Class D airspace at KHPN has received some extra space
which sticks out. Last time I flew in that area northeast bound - they
would not let me cross directly over KHPN or enter their airspace - and
I wound up out over the sound ANYWAY (*and* I was talking to approach
and squawking) - a reverse red route.
mattd
David Feinstein wrote:
>
> Many pilots flying to the convention at Glens Falls may want to fly the
> Hudson River Class-B exclusion corridor in New York City. The rules are the
> same as they always were, with one wrinkle.
>
> There is a description of two possible routes at
> http://carneyaviation.com/nyctour/nyctour.htm, including photos of major
> landmarks. This route is breathtaking - if you've never flown it, you must
> add it to your itinerary.
>
> The wrinkle:
> FDC 3/1862 closes the Hudson River route during NY Yankees home games, and
> closes the route over La Guardia during Mets games. FSS briefers do not know
> when these games are, but controllers do; and NYC police patrol the airspace
> in helicopters during the games.
>
> Schedules are here:
> Yankees (Hudson R.) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
> aMets (LGA transition) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nym
>
> Yankee Stadium 40-49.6N / 73-55.6 W
> Shea Stadium (Mets) 40-45.2 N / 73-50.5 W
>
> Feel free to forward this to the Grumman Gang. It's on topic because of the
> convention.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Brodsky <danbrodsky(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AYA 2007 via New York City |
If you call up ATC, they will give you a sightseeing flight directly over
the city as long as they are not busy.
Usually at 1500 to 2500 feet.
This includes when there is a Yankee game going on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mattd" <mattd(at)drahz.com>
Cc: "Northeast Grummans"
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: AYA 2007 via New York City
> Just as an additional note - since the diagram on the carney site was
> created, the Class D airspace at KHPN has received some extra space
> which sticks out. Last time I flew in that area northeast bound - they
> would not let me cross directly over KHPN or enter their airspace - and
> I wound up out over the sound ANYWAY (*and* I was talking to approach
> and squawking) - a reverse red route.
>
> mattd
>
>
> David Feinstein wrote:
>>
>>
>> Many pilots flying to the convention at Glens Falls may want to fly the
>> Hudson River Class-B exclusion corridor in New York City. The rules are
>> the
>> same as they always were, with one wrinkle.
>>
>> There is a description of two possible routes at
>> http://carneyaviation.com/nyctour/nyctour.htm, including photos of major
>> landmarks. This route is breathtaking - if you've never flown it, you
>> must
>> add it to your itinerary.
>>
>> The wrinkle:
>> FDC 3/1862 closes the Hudson River route during NY Yankees home games,
>> and
>> closes the route over La Guardia during Mets games. FSS briefers do not
>> know
>> when these games are, but controllers do; and NYC police patrol the
>> airspace
>> in helicopters during the games.
>>
>> Schedules are here:
>> Yankees (Hudson R.) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
>> aMets (LGA transition) http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=nym
>>
>> Yankee Stadium 40-49.6N / 73-55.6 W
>> Shea Stadium (Mets) 40-45.2 N / 73-50.5 W
>>
>> Feel free to forward this to the Grumman Gang. It's on topic because of
>> the
>> convention.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
>> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ne-grumman mailing list
> ne-grumman(at)mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/ne-grumman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Feinstein" <david(at)carneyaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AYA 2007 via New York City |
# Just as an additional note - since the diagram on the carney site
# was created, the Class D airspace at KHPN has received some extra
# space ...
... the chart is now modified. Thanks for pointing it out.
"not for navigation"
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hall" <jhall2(at)earthlink.net> |
I had absolutely no trouble (well I had to drive to the FSDO on the 405
freeway!) getting a ferry permit to fly my out-of-annual (by a week!)
Cheetah from SNA to TOA a few years ago. I needed an A&P to sign off in the
Aircraft log book that the plane was safe for the flight, and that was all
there was to it. The FSDO guy was very nice and I don't even think I had to
pay a fee!
Jim Hall
N9744U (been ferried!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Thanks, Jim! I was sure I had read somewhere that a ferry permit would
not
be issued to conduct an annual, so I didn't bother to check the FARs.
My
mistake; after receiving lots of feedback telling me to get one, I
looked at
14 CFR 21.197 and it appears likely that a ferry permit would be
approved.
Just to confirm, when I visited the GSO FSDO last week I asked and it
appears to be a common and simple procedure.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Hall
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:43 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Annual
I had absolutely no trouble (well I had to drive to the FSDO on the 405
freeway!) getting a ferry permit to fly my out-of-annual (by a week!)
Cheetah from SNA to TOA a few years ago. I needed an A&P to sign off in
the
Aircraft log book that the plane was safe for the flight, and that was
all
there was to it. The FSDO guy was very nice and I don't even think I
had to
pay a fee!
Jim Hall
N9744U (been ferried!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hall" <jhall2(at)earthlink.net> |
Don,
One small potential problem. Your insurance may not be valid with a ferry
permit. I did not know that and flew blissfully ignorant with no problems!
Don't know if I had valid insurance or not. It's too late to unfly the
trip! You might want to check with your insurance people.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Thanks for the heads-up, Jim; I'll definitely do that!
BRgds,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hall
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Tiger Annual
Don,
One small potential problem. Your insurance may not be valid with a ferry
permit. I did not know that and flew blissfully ignorant with no problems!
Don't know if I had valid insurance or not. It's too late to unfly the
trip! You might want to check with your insurance people.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel pump blowing a fuse? |
| From: | "Peter Langlois" <pete(at)wort.org> |
Sequence goes like this:
Master on, fuel pump on, silence (except for the gyros spinning up.)
Strobes, fuel pump, and starter are on the same fuse.
What about a fuel pump would cause this problem? Is is a wiring issue
inside the pump body, or more likely some short otherwise.
Testing the circuit with the battery disconnected shows good connectivity
through the fuse. No short between the power source and the fuse body.
Replace fuse, master on, stobes work. Strobes off, fuel pump on, blown
fuse.
Anyone had this experience before? Is is just a common fuel pump failure?
Thanks for the input.
PETE
Tiger N45319
Leesburg, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump blowing a fuse? |
> Testing the circuit with the battery disconnected shows good connectivity
> through the fuse. No short between the power source and the fuse body.
> Replace fuse, master on, stobes work. Strobes off, fuel pump on, blown
> fuse.
>
> Anyone had this experience before? Is is just a common fuel pump failure?
If turning on the fuel pump is what is blowing the fuse, then it sounds as
if there is a short to ground in the wire between the switch and the pump OR
possibly an internal failure inside the pump which is also a short to
ground. I'd look at where the wire goes through the firewall first. If the
pump just doesn't work but the fuse is OK then you need to check the voltage
at the pump. Cut the but splice connector at the pump and check the voltage
there. If voltage is OK then replace the pump. They are very durable but
they don't last forever.
Cliff A&P/IA
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel pump blowing a fuse? |
I had the same problem about a month ago. I found the fuse was getting
blown after the strobe lights were turn on. This only happens
intermittently. I checked the wingtip strobe tubes and found the right
wing tube had turned black. I replaced the tube and the fuse has not
blown since. Hope this helps.
Peter Wei
N26986 Cheetah
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Langlois
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel pump blowing a fuse?
Sequence goes like this:
Master on, fuel pump on, silence (except for the gyros spinning up.)
Strobes, fuel pump, and starter are on the same fuse.
What about a fuel pump would cause this problem? Is is a wiring issue
inside the pump body, or more likely some short otherwise.
Testing the circuit with the battery disconnected shows good
connectivity
through the fuse. No short between the power source and the fuse body.
Replace fuse, master on, stobes work. Strobes off, fuel pump on, blown
fuse.
Anyone had this experience before? Is is just a common fuel pump
failure?
Thanks for the input.
PETE
Tiger N45319
Leesburg, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump blowing a fuse? |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
I isolated a bad fuel pump by installing an in-line fuse in the wire to
the electric fuel pump. So, in effect, I had two fuses to the fuel
pump. The closest fuse will blow first. I think I used a 5 amp fuse.
It turned out the pump was failing. Replacing the pump stopped the
problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Wei <peter@linn-mathes.com>
Sent: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 8:24 am
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel pump blowing a fuse?
<peter@linn-mathes.com>
I had the same problem about a month ago. I found the fuse was getting
blown after the strobe lights were turn on. This only happens
intermittently. I checked the wingtip strobe tubes and found the right
wing tube had turned black. I replaced the tube and the fuse has not
blown since. Hope this helps.
Peter Wei
N26986 Cheetah
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Langlois
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel pump blowing a fuse?
Sequence goes like this:
Master on, fuel pump on, silence (except for the gyros spinning up.)
Strobes, fuel pump, and starter are on the same fuse.
What about a fuel pump would cause this problem? Is is a wiring issue
inside the pump body, or more likely some short otherwise.
Testing the circuit with the battery disconnected shows good
connectivity
through the fuse. No short between the power source and the fuse body.
Replace fuse, master on, stobes work. Strobes off, fuel pump on, blown
fuse.
Anyone had this experience before? Is is just a common fuel pump
failure?
Thanks for the input.
PETE
Tiger N45319
Leesburg, VA
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump blowing a fuse? |
As I mentioned you could have accomplished the same thing with the panel
mounted fuse by cutting the wire to the pump turning on the switch and then
temporarily shorting the two wires you cut together. Either way you found
the problem. A good modification to the electrical system is to put the
electric fuel pump on it's own circuit I think.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel pump blowing a fuse?
>
> I isolated a bad fuel pump by installing an in-line fuse in the wire to
> the electric fuel pump. So, in effect, I had two fuses to the fuel pump.
> The closest fuse will blow first. I think I used a 5 amp fuse. It turned
> out the pump was failing. Replacing the pump stopped the problem.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter H. Wei <peter@linn-mathes.com>
> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 8:24 am
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel pump blowing a fuse?
>
>
> <peter@linn-mathes.com>
>
> I had the same problem about a month ago. I found the fuse was getting
> blown after the strobe lights were turn on. This only happens
> intermittently. I checked the wingtip strobe tubes and found the right
> wing tube had turned black. I replaced the tube and the fuse has not
> blown since. Hope this helps.
>
> Peter Wei
> N26986 Cheetah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
> Langlois
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:12 PM
> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel pump blowing a fuse?
>
>
> Sequence goes like this:
>
> Master on, fuel pump on, silence (except for the gyros spinning up.)
>
> Strobes, fuel pump, and starter are on the same fuse.
>
> What about a fuel pump would cause this problem? Is is a wiring issue
> inside the pump body, or more likely some short otherwise.
>
> Testing the circuit with the battery disconnected shows good
> connectivity
> through the fuse. No short between the power source and the fuse body.
> Replace fuse, master on, stobes work. Strobes off, fuel pump on, blown
> fuse.
>
> Anyone had this experience before? Is is just a common fuel pump
> failure?
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
> PETE
> Tiger N45319
> Leesburg, VA
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
> --
> 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 6/17/2007 8:23 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Rear Seat Headset Jacks |
Can someone tell me where the rear-seat headset jacks were installed on
a
late-model (Tiger, LLC) AG5B? A picture or two would also be helpful.
I've
read the GG archives and seen pictures of some of the retrofit
solutions,
but I'd like to see what the latest factory solution was.
Thanks in advance,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Matterface" <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy latch grommet/ AG5B Control wheel Cap |
About to O/H an early AA5 canopy latch assembly and use the latter
NAS1368N-6B Flip over Grommet. Does the AN6227B-7 O-ring go under the
head of the grommet on the O/S of the canopy or under the flip over lip
on the inside. I think it should be the former, but not sure.?
Need to remove one of the caps on a AG5B control column which has the
PTT switch mounted in it. Looking at the sides of the control column
grips it looks like the cap is held in with small roll pins or screws.
Anyone ever removed one of these caps before.?
Ian
MatAir
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy latch grommet/ AG5B Control wheel Cap |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Hi Ian, The AG5B I recently replaced the PTT has small screws in it.
Not sure about a roll pin.
Grommet: As I recall, without looking at the parts manual, I think I
put the "O" ring on the outside.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Matterface <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com>
Sent: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:01 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Canopy latch grommet/ AG5B Control wheel Cap
About to O/H an early AA5 canopy latch assembly and
use the latter NAS1368N-6B Flip over Grommet. Does the AN6227B-7 O-ring
go under
the head of the grommet on the O/S of the canopy or under the flip over
lip on
the inside. I think it should be the former, but not sure.?
Need to remove one of the caps on a AG5B control
column which has the PTT switch mounted in it. Looking at the sides of
the
control column grips it looks like the cap is held in with small roll
pins or
screws. Anyone ever removed one of these caps before.?
Ian
MatAir
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First Production Cowling |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
I've got the first production cowling. I'm going to start taking
pictures of it today. The DER will be here Monday for the conformity
inspection. Now it gets fun. The offer still stands. I need to sell
3 more cowlings at $6000/ea. The hinge for the center upper cowling is
$385. Baffles, before they are trimmed to fit, run about $300 (that's
a guess, the first ones will be the hardest.) Painting will run a few
hundred dollars. I recommend the short stack powerflow. I mean, why
cut up the cowling to put the stock exhaust in if you don't have to?
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mattd <mattd(at)drahz.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Production Cowling |
OK - I really want your cowling. If I were in CA this would be a slam dunk.
Is it yet good enough to have another good A&P install?
matt drahzal
teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I've got the first production cowling. I'm going to start taking
> pictures of it today. The DER will be here Monday for the conformity
> inspection. Now it gets fun. The offer still stands. I need to sell
> 3 more cowlings at $6000/ea. The hinge for the center upper cowling
> is $385. Baffles, before they are trimmed to fit, run about $300
> (that's a guess, the first ones will be the hardest.) Painting will
> run a few hundred dollars. I recommend the short stack powerflow. I
> mean, why cut up the cowling to put the stock exhaust in if you don't
> have to?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Production Cowling |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Sounds to me like you need an excuse for a vacation.
I'll know more about how much expertise it needs to install the cowling
after I have installed a couple. The reality is, based on the
workmanship I see on pretty much every plane I work on for the first
time, I'd say there are very few A&Ps with whom I'd trust the
installation. The primary area of concern for me is the close
tolerances. For example: there is less than 3/16 inch gap between the
prop and the cowling. And, the gap between the metal baffles and the
cowling are different from side to side because the engine moves
asymmetrically in its mount.
Agina, like I said, I'll know more as I build the installation
instructions.
Gary
PS, I weighed the cowling. 17.5 pounds without the hardware.
-----Original Message-----
From: mattd <mattd(at)drahz.com>
Sent: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: First Production Cowling
OK - I really want your cowling. If I were in CA this would be a slam
dunk.
Is it yet good enough to have another good A&P install?
matt drahzal
teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chad Miller" <tiger862(at)ligtel.com> |
Doing a major on a 1978 Tiger when we purchased the fuel pump for it we
found that the part number had been changed several times. Did not
think much about it until we received the pump and found that the
housing was to long and would not fit above the carb. to get the engine
back on. It took three tries to get the right pump, which we finally
found one with the old part number and lucky for me it worked. Anyone
else run into this, or is this old news and we just didn't know what was
going on? Thanks Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth Tusha" <ktusha(at)gpcom.net> |
Yes, I had the same problem. The overhaul shop was unaware of the
non-standard pump and it took probably 2 days of mechanics time (strung
out over a week) to get to the bottom of it. Royal PITA. Yes, I guess
it was old news but I and all those working with me were unaware of the
problem.
Ken Tusha
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
To the best of my knowledge, the only change of which I'm aware is a
fuel pump with the outlet very close to the engine mount. This can be
corrected with the right fitting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Tusha <ktusha(at)gpcom.net>
Sent: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel Pump
Yes, I had the same problem. The overhaul
shop was unaware of the non-standard pump and it took probably 2 days
of
mechanics time (strung out over a week) to get to the bottom of it.
Royal
PITA. Yes, I guess it was old news but I and all those working with me
were unaware of the problem.
Ken Tusha
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
> Yes, I had the same problem. The overhaul
> shop was unaware of the non-standard pump and it took probably 2 days of
> mechanics time (strung out over a week) to get to the bottom of it. Royal
> PITA. Yes, I guess it was old news but I and all those working with me
> were unaware of the problem.
It is old news, and Lycoming Service Instruction 1110C, dated April 10,
1987, details the modification to the HA-6 carburetor to prevent the
interference with the new AC fuel pump LW-16335 which replaced the older
75246 fuel pump. The O-360-A4K engine is specifically mentioned. This
required milling a small area near the idle mixture screw on the top of the
carburetor and most likely could be done with a die grinder/rotary burr
without removing the carburetor when the fuel pump is off. Shouldn't have
taken more than about an hour to do! (hope you didn't have to pay for 2
days of labor!) The port locations on the new pump were clocked differently
and required a new stainless steel fuel line to the carburetor (not relevant
if you installed a fuel flow transducer in the line using hoses).
A lot of people probably got caught up in this change and paid extra money
because the shop didn't subscribe to the $35/yr Lycoming Service Bulletins,
Instructions and Letters.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel Pump
>
> To the best of my knowledge, the only change of which I'm aware is a fuel
> pump with the outlet very close to the engine mount. This can be
> corrected with the right fitting.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Tusha <ktusha(at)gpcom.net>
> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 1:08 pm
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Fuel Pump
>
>
> Yes, I had the same problem. The overhaul
> shop was unaware of the non-standard pump and it took probably 2 days of
> mechanics time (strung out over a week) to get to the bottom of it. Royal
> PITA. Yes, I guess it was old news but I and all those working with me
> were unaware of the problem.
>
> Ken Tusha
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> from AOL at AOL.com.
> =0
>
>
> --
> 269.9.14/880 - Release Date: 6/29/2007 2:15 PM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Re: AYA Convention and Airventure] |
Ron Levy wrote:
>>
>>
>[Levy] Then make it to the folks concerned (i.e., the AYA Board of Directors
>via your Regional Director), and, as has been said repeatedly, the Grumman
>Gang email list ain't the way to do that. Otherwise, one might get the
>impression that all you want to do is vent, not accomplish.
>
>Ron
>
True Ron, but between the Grumman Gang and the Team Grumman lists lies
most of the 'votes' to swamp the Regional Directors with requests for a
change. I don't get to OSH very often since SNF is in my backyard, so
to speak, and if I'm going to travel from the deep south to the deep
north, near OSH, having the OPPORTUNITY to both reasonably cost
effective may make up my mind.
If it can be done without incurring wrath nor expense to the
organization, then I think it should be considered. But, somebody (most
likely the convention chairs) will have to take on the extra work of
rescheduling. For that, most of us that would do both conventions would
be most appreciative.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
I'm in the process of installing the first production cowling.
The one I installed on my plane was actually a prototype.
Between mine (the prototype) and Brian's (the first production cowling)
we made some changes to the joggle where the upper cowling meets the
lower cowling, the lay-up schedule on both the upper and lower to make
them stiffer, and the mounting of the inlets and cooling exit ramps.
Everything worked out well except the joggle. The cowling has to go
back to Lancaster to get that fixed. Should only take a couple of
days. Still, now you know why I wanted to install the first 5
cowlings. Work out the bugs and make sure the installation
instructions make sense.
So far, I have about 25 to 30 hours invested in fitting the cowling to
the plane. This is one area where you don't want to trim off too much
material.
So, Brian, about that trip to Oshkosh . . . . . . .
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Feinstein" <david(at)carneyaviation.com> |
| Subject: | what we did on vacation |
We weren't the last ones home, but we're back from AYA 2007, this year's
Grumman convention in Glens Falls, N.Y.
It's partly about flying and partly about touring. Pictures and story at
http://carneyaviation.com/gfl/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | what we did on vacation |
David,
I couldn't attend the convention so I really appreciate your posting. Great
pictures and explanations.
BRgds,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Feinstein
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:39 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: what we did on vacation
We weren't the last ones home, but we're back from AYA 2007, this year's
Grumman convention in Glens Falls, N.Y.
It's partly about flying and partly about touring. Pictures and story at
http://carneyaviation.com/gfl/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
For those following the saga, I'm installing the first production
cowling.
Fitting the cowling, initally, took about 30 hours.
Cutting and fitting the baffles has taken about 80 hours so far.
- The two biggest headaches are the left rear corn baffles. I will be
having them made int he futre instead of modifying RV-6 baffles. Van's
F*#ked up when he designed the left ear corner. It could be done a lot
easier. The baffle behind #3 needs to have s duct installed to get the
air around the back of the cylinder. Van's baffle sits right against
it and blocks the air flow around the back. No way around that without
resorting the the horribly designed Grumman baffles. At least they
have a duct to get air around the back. Then, installing a 4 inch
flanged aluminum duct from an AG5B next to it get interesting. Now
Iknow why it took a month toinstall my baffle on the first cowling.
Next step is to fine tune the heights of the baffles. I had my
fabricator add 1/8 inch foam sandwich to the underside of the upper to
make it stiffer. That worked, it just makes fitting the baffles
different from mine.
I'm making up the installation instructions as I go. It would be nice
if a couple more brave souls would buy into the first phase so I can
fine tune the installation instructions. As with the first production
cowling, I'll fit the cowling for free. I just need to get the details
on the baffles sorted out now.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update |
>
>- The two biggest headaches are the left rear corn baffles. I will
>be having them made int he futre instead of modifying RV-6
>baffles. Van's F*#ked up when he designed the left ear corner. It
>could be done a lot easier. The baffle behind #3 needs to have s
>duct installed to get the air around the back of the
>cylinder. Van's baffle sits right against it and blocks the air
>flow around the back. No way around that without resorting the the
>horribly designed Grumman baffles. At least they have a duct to get
>air around the back. Then, installing a 4 inch flanged aluminum
>duct from an AG5B next to it get interesting. Now Iknow why it took
>a month toinstall my baffle on the first cowling.
>.....
>
>Gary
Gary... the standard Vans builders fix is to add washers/speacers (a
1/4 inch IIRC) under the baffles by #3 cylinder. This gives the duct
you refer to above...
gil in Tucson... wondering why the 180 HP RVs have less cooling
problems than our Tigers....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Tigers don't have a cooling problem. That's a myth.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:24 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update
- The two biggest headaches are the left rear corn baffles. I
will be having them made int he futre instead of modifying RV-6
baffles. Van's F*#ked up when he designed the left ear
corner. It could be done a lot easier. The baffle behind #3
needs to have s duct installed to get the air around the back of the
cylinder. Van's baffle sits right against it and blocks the air
flow around the back. No way around that without resorting the the
horribly designed Grumman baffles. At least they have a duct to get
air around the back. Then, installing a 4 inch flanged aluminum
duct from an AG5B next to it get interesting. Now Iknow why it took
a month toinstall my baffle on the first cowling.
.....
Gary
Gary... the standard Vans builders fix is to add washers/speacers (a 1/4
inch IIRC) under the baffles by #3 cylinder. This gives the duct
you refer to above...
gil in Tucson... wondering why the 180 HP RVs have less cooling problems
than our Tigers....
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Carmichael" <RLC(at)rlcarmichael.com> |
| Subject: | Inertia Belt for AA5B? |
I know there is a company that makes an interia belt to replace the stock
one. Even have the stock number on stickey but lost the darn web site.
Any ideas?
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inertia Belt for AA5B? |
Aircraft Spruce - Schroth brand....
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07185.pdf
gil in Tucson
At 03:17 PM 7/24/2007, Richard Carmichael wrote:
>I know there is a company that makes an interia belt to replace the
>stock one. Even have the stock number on stickey but lost the darn web site.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Richard Carmichael
>Appraisal Supervisor
>RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
>757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
>RLCarmichael.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hausknecht" <bhauskne(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Inertia Belt for AA5B? |
Karas Engineering. Sells Schroth belts. Karas is an AYA member and
Star advertisement. Call Frank Karas at 856-629-0712. Support your AYA
suppliers. 10% discount for AYA members.
Cheers!
--Brian
---------------
At 03:17 PM 7/24/2007, Richard Carmichael wrote:
I know there is a company that makes an interia belt to replace the
stock one. Even have the stock number on stickey but lost the darn web
site.
Any ideas?
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inertia Belt for AA5B? |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
If you are going to install the inertial belts, see if you can get the
ones used in the new (Tiger LLC) AG5B. The Shroth belts tighten
(adjust) from the wrong side and they are just funky; not at all
ergonomically correct.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
I know there is a company that
makes an interia belt to replace the stock one. Even have the
stock
number on stickey but lost the darn web site.
Any
ideas?
Richard
Carmichael
Appraisal
Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Date:
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Carmichael" <RLC(at)rlcarmichael.com> |
| Subject: | Inertia Belt for AA5B? |
)
X-SpamUrl: doteasy.com
X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 305, in(10839, out
m92.168.101.26
X-Originating-IP: 192.168.101.26
Thanks Gary. Good idea. Got to be better that what's in the plane now...75
tiger with latch and a stupid slip over the belt end. It's so bad I won't
even use the shoulder harness.
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belt for AA5B?
If you are going to install the inertial belts, see if you can get the
ones used in the new (Tiger LLC) AG5B. The Shroth belts tighten
(adjust) from the wrong side and they are just funky; not at all
ergonomically correct.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
I know there is a company that
makes an interia belt to replace the stock one. Even have the
stock
number on stickey but lost the darn web site.
Any
ideas?
Richard
Carmichael
Appraisal
Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Date:
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
_________________________________________________________________
Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It's easy
with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Carmichael" <RLC(at)rlcarmichael.com> |
| Subject: | Inertia Belt for AA5B? |
That's exactly who I was looking for. Thanks a bunch. I posted on Gang
(only got someone who rewebs belts)and emailed AYA but no reply.
Thanks again.
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
_____
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Hausknecht
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:37 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belt for AA5B?
Karas Engineering. Sells Schroth belts. Karas is an AYA member and Star
advertisement. Call Frank Karas at 856-629-0712. Support your AYA
suppliers. 10% discount for AYA members.
Cheers!
--Brian
---------------
At 03:17 PM 7/24/2007, Richard Carmichael wrote:
I know there is a company that makes an interia belt to replace the stock
one. Even have the stock number on stickey but lost the darn web site.
Any ideas?
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Date: 7/24/2007 1:50 PM
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Milligan <flyer.bob(at)verizon.net> |
How would I find the source for:
"If you are going to install the inertial belts, see if you can get the
ones used in the new (Tiger LLC) AG5B." Gary?
Bob Milligan
AA5A
26294
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hausknecht" <bhauskne(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Inertia Belt for AA5B? |
No prob. I didn't respond initially on the Gang because there are
usually many replies. But when I saw the other message, I happened to
have the Star with me and pulled the info from it.
If you're not an AYA member, I highly recommend joining for the
information in the Star and the other documents available on their
website.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Carmichael
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belt for AA5B?
That's exactly who I was looking for. Thanks a bunch. I posted on Gang
(only got someone who rewebs belts)and emailed AYA but no reply.
Thanks again.
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
_____
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Hausknecht
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:37 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belt for AA5B?
Karas Engineering. Sells Schroth belts. Karas is an AYA member and
Star advertisement. Call Frank Karas at 856-629-0712. Support your AYA
suppliers. 10% discount for AYA members.
Cheers!
--Brian
---------------
At 03:17 PM 7/24/2007, Richard Carmichael wrote:
I know there is a company that makes an interia belt to replace the
stock one. Even have the stock number on stickey but lost the darn web
site.
Any ideas?
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Date: 7/24/2007 1:50 PM
7/24/2007 1:50 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
7/25/2007 2:55 PM
7/25/2007 2:55 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inertia Belts |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
See if Fletcher has some from wrecked planes.
Another option is to call John Rock (304) 886-7784. He knows a lot of
stuff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Milligan <flyer.bob(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 7:46 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
How would I find the source for:
"If you are going to install the inertial belts, see if you can get the
ones used in the new (Tiger LLC) AG5B." Gary?
Bob Milligan
AA5A
26294
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inertia Belts |
No need to waste John Rock's time. He is working long hours at his job.
Tiger Aircraft parts are unavailable at this time. That is to anyone..as their
assets, whch includes all the inventory of parts, is tied up in the bankruptcy.
A new owner of those assets may emerge as soon as August, but parts will likely
be unavailable for some time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Carmichael" <RLC(at)rlcarmichael.com> |
Thanks for all the replies. Got me headed to the right place.
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
No need to waste John Rock's time. He is working long hours at his job.
Tiger Aircraft parts are unavailable at this time. That is to anyone..as
their assets, whch includes all the inventory of parts, is tied up in the
bankruptcy.
A new owner of those assets may emerge as soon as August, but parts will
likely be unavailable for some time.
_________________________________________________________________
Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It's easy
with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inertia Belts |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Beat me, Beat me. . . . .
John would know who the supplier is.
Now, Ned, take a red and some some rest.
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 4:30 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
No need to waste John Rock's time. He is working long hours at his job.
Tiger Aircraft parts are unavailable at this time. That is to
anyone..as their
assets, whch includes all the inventory of parts, is tied up in the
bankruptcy.
A new owner of those assets may emerge as soon as August, but parts
will likely
be unavailable for some time.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inertia Belts |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Ned, thanks for your concern. But, I think you under estimate the
quality of the people here on TeamGrumman-List. They are not going to
be calling him and bugging him. It isn't likely that 90% of the people
here even know who he is.
You do have to admit that he has a lot of corporate knowledge. That is
knowledge is valuable when it comes to solving problems that no one
else can solve. I tried find the source for the the round duct on the
air box for an AG5B for 7 years. Even Fletcher didn't have the source.
So, everyone on the TeamGrumman-List, as the judge would say to the
jury, "Please disregard the previous post, and this one, giving any
information regarding John Rock."
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:44 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
Beat me, Beat me. . . . .
John would know who the supplier is.
Now, Ned, take a red and some some rest.
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 4:30 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
No need to waste John Rock's time. He is working long hours at his job.
Tiger Aircraft parts are unavailable at this time. That is to
anyone..as their
assets, whch includes all the inventory of parts, is tied up in the
bankruptcy.
A new owner of those assets may emerge as soon as August, but parts
will likely
be unavailable for some time.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inertia Belts |
The suppliers seem to be pretty pissed at Tiger and this is being extended to whoever
ends up with the company assets by some of the vendors.....seems they still
want paid for the parts previously supplied and are indicating they want
that money before supplying any more parts....
---- teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
Beat me, Beat me. . . . .
John would know who the supplier is.
Now, Ned, take a red and some some rest.
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 4:30 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
No need to waste John Rock's time. He is working long hours at his job.
Tiger Aircraft parts are unavailable at this time. That is to
anyone..as their
assets, whch includes all the inventory of parts, is tied up in the
bankruptcy.
A new owner of those assets may emerge as soon as August, but parts
will likely
be unavailable for some time.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Pollack" <rdp123(at)verizon.net> |
Doesn't make sense that the supplier wouldn't want to sell sets of belts to
help make up his losses. At about $1000 per plane he might sell 10 or 20
sets direct to consumers and actually make money. I would buy a set.
Rick Tiger 4542N SMO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
The suppliers seem to be pretty pissed at Tiger and this is being extended
to whoever ends up with the company assets by some of the vendors.....seems
they still want paid for the parts previously supplied and are indicating
they want that money before supplying any more parts....
---- teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
Beat me, Beat me. . . . .
John would know who the supplier is.
Now, Ned, take a red and some some rest.
-----Original Message-----
From: 923te(at)cox.net
Sent: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 4:30 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Inertia Belts
No need to waste John Rock's time. He is working long hours at his job.
Tiger Aircraft parts are unavailable at this time. That is to
anyone..as their
assets, whch includes all the inventory of parts, is tied up in the
bankruptcy.
A new owner of those assets may emerge as soon as August, but parts
will likely
be unavailable for some time.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | STCs and otehr BS |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Friday I spent most of the morning arguing with the DER and FAA
regarding whether or not I need to do testing on the carb heat rise
with my new cowling. My argument was, "Since I didn't change anything
in the path of the carb heat, I don't need to test." Their argument
was. "You don't know if you changed the pressures enough on the bottom
of the engine compartment enough to affect the heat rise with carb
heat. So, you need to test this."
That is total BS and, since there is no way to prove or disprove the
carb heat question, I have to do a flight test, at my expense, to test
the carb heat rise.
This is just one of many examples of total nonsense issues I've had to
deal with regarding the FAA and STCs.
Did you know that since I went from a square inlet to the carb air
intake duct to a round one, that I have to test a stock airplane's
manifold pressure next to mine to show I have as good or better
manifold pressure?
I have to install a completely instrumented $4,000 alternator to test
for alternator temps since I don't have a baffle separating the
alternator from the underside temps. It doesn't matter that the
original Traveler had the alternator exposed to under cowl temps.
Plus, since the test plane has a Power FLow exhaust on it, my STC is
limited to using the Power Flow until I can afford to repeat all of the
testing with a stock exhaust. Why? Because the stock exhaust will have
different temperatures under the cowling and this might cause the temps
on the accessory housing to be too high.
Now, Kevin Lancaster, can you think of any reason to why the Grummans
shouldn't be re-introduced as experimentals?
--------------
I've been creating the installation instructions while installting the
cowling on Brian's plane. Unfortunately, Brian needs to take his plane
before I can get it installed and tested. Here is the dilemma: I need
a plane to use for conformity. I can't use mine because the cowling on
my plane can't be conformed. The cowling for Brian's plane was
conformed to his plane. Since he is taking his plane back without the
testing being completed (with the original cowling re-installed) now, I
need to get a whole new plane and whole new cowling and conform it for
testing. I'm hoping to talk the FAA into letting me use the conformed
cowling on another plane, and, I'm hoping it fits. Plus, I need to do
a lot of new testing now regarding the Carb Heat.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Stinis" <stinis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Skytypers using Grumman AA5-B |
Attached is the formation flight of 5 flying over Japan's Mt. Fuji.
We were there in June 2005. We were the only civilian formation flight
in Japan. These were the only Grumman in country. We skytyped all over
Japan for 45 Days. The campaign was a huge success. They are all back
safe in California. We currently service Las Vegas and CA. To learn
more about skytypers, visit our website http://www.skytypers.com
Skytypers is always looking for formation Grumman pilots for local
flights, national flights or overseas. Let me know if there is any
interest.
Stephen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neitalibelle(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Columbia Co., California Fly-In |
Quick reminder.... fly in to Columbia this Saturday, the 25th, for lunch at
Columbia House, corner building in the center of town at noon.
We will fly in around 11:15, park in transient parking near the FBO and walk
into town.
Several may be camping overnight at the campgrounds!
I fly a Young Eagel at 9:00 AM that morning and then will head to Columbia.
Best wishes,
NEITA 775 527-2789 10 am to 10 pm
N311TA
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
I went to a boat show, featuring antique wooden boats, and saw some
boats with water cooled Lycoming V-12s.. I was quite surprised. Did
you know Lycoming made a 7700+ cubic inch 36 cyl water cooled radial?
They made a lot of engines in their hey-day.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> |
Yeah, we have a picture of this beast in the Hiller Museum restoration shop.
I hadn't looked at it very carefully until last week maybe and then
discovered wow, 36 cylinders. It's interesting relative to other multi-row
radials in that it's basically 9 in-line 4s with overhead cams. That'd take
a heck of a plane (or boat). I wonder if they ever had a planned airframe
for the engine during design.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: V-12 Lycoming
I went to a boat show, featuring antique wooden boats, and saw some
boats with water cooled Lycoming V-12s.. I was quite surprised. Did
you know Lycoming made a 7700+ cubic inch 36 cyl water cooled radial?
They made a lot of engines in their hey-day.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Roberts" <aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com> |
I saw a P&W 27 cyl where they had four nine cylinder radials all on the same
crank. It was reported to have been used in a German tank and some single
engine aircraft (can't recall what at the moment). It was at a museum just
outside of Lancaster, PA at an event called Rough & Tumble. I was only there
for about three to fours hours last week as I had to divirt around some
nasty WX on my way in. I'll check with my brother to see if he took pics of
any of the aircraft stuff. It was mostly steam engines, locomotives and
tractors. There were some fixed engines too though running mills, generators
and the like, many dating before 1900.
As a pilot, only two bad things can happen to you and one of them will.
a. One day you will walk out to the aircraft knowing that it is your last
flight.
b. One day you will walk out to the aircraft not knowing that it is your
last flight.
Steve Roberts - AA-1B N641HY @ ILG
----Original Message Follows----
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: V-12 Lycoming
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:29:23 -0700
Yeah, we have a picture of this beast in the Hiller Museum restoration shop.
I hadn't looked at it very carefully until last week maybe and then
discovered wow, 36 cylinders. It's interesting relative to other multi-row
radials in that it's basically 9 in-line 4s with overhead cams. That'd take
a heck of a plane (or boat). I wonder if they ever had a planned airframe
for the engine during design.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: V-12 Lycoming
I went to a boat show, featuring antique wooden boats, and saw some
boats with water cooled Lycoming V-12s.. I was quite surprised. Did
you know Lycoming made a 7700+ cubic inch 36 cyl water cooled radial?
They made a lot of engines in their hey-day.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: V-12 Lycoming |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
The story I read was taht it was intended for the B-36
-----Original Message-----
From: James Courtney <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Sent: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:29 am
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: V-12 Lycoming
Yeah, we have a picture of this beast in the Hiller Museum restoration
shop.
I hadn't looked at it very carefully until last week maybe and then
discovered wow, 36 cylinders. It's interesting relative to other
multi-row
radials in that it's basically 9 in-line 4s with overhead cams. That'd
take
a heck of a plane (or boat). I wonder if they ever had a planned
airframe
for the engine during design.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: V-12 Lycoming
I went to a boat show, featuring antique wooden boats, and saw some
boats with water cooled Lycoming V-12s.. I was quite surprised. Did
you know Lycoming made a 7700+ cubic inch 36 cyl water cooled radial?
They made a lot of engines in their hey-day.
________________________________________________________________________
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hall" <jhall2(at)earthlink.net> |
Boy, that Hiller Museum is a neat place! If you can swing a visit, do.
Jim Hall
Jamey wrote>
Yeah, we have a picture of this beast in the Hiller Museum restoration shop.
I hadn't looked at it very carefully until last week maybe and then
discovered wow, 36 cylinders. It's interesting relative to other multi-row
radials in that it's basically 9 in-line 4s with overhead cams. That'd take
a heck of a plane (or boat). I wonder if they ever had a planned airframe
for the engine during design.
Jamey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Realtime Spell Checker Added To Matronics Forums! |
Dear Listers,
Today 9/8/2007 I have added a new real-time spell checker function to all of the
BBS Forums at Matronics. When you reply or create a new message on the Forums,
you will notice that misspelled words will be high-lighted in yellow. If
you left-click on the word, you will be prompted with a drop-down list of suggested
spellings.
http://forums.matronics.com
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Matornics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cowling Update. Horizontal braces |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph. Should be an interesting
flight test. We were going to use the DERs Mooney as a chase plane,
but, the Tiger has a higher Vne. Weird huh. Now, we have to find
another plane, and I have to pay the pilot to fly a chase plane during
the dive. I have a stock Tiger instrumented and will be doing some
flight tests tomorrow. One of the costs projected for the installation
that I hadn't considered earlier is the cost of the baffles. They are
turning out to be higher than I thought. The installation instructions
are 29 pages so far. But, then, the FAA hasn't had a chance to look at
them yet. $10,000+ and counting . . . . .
I have also hired a structural engineer to come up with a fix for the
horizontal braces. Unlike the current fix which just replaces the
bent/cracked parts with the same parts, this is a whole new
installation. I am also looking into a metal-to-metal bonding
procedure that is more like the original structure and doesn't use fuel
tank sealant as an adhesive. I'm going for an STC for a permanent fix,
just in case I need to fix my plane some day. $4000+ and counting . .
. . .
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
(in Beautiful) Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> |
| Subject: | Cowling Update. Horizontal braces |
Gary, what kind of schedule would you be on for the test flights? I might
be able to chase you a few times depending on when. I'm having some work
done to my plane later this month/early October but after that maybe? If
the amount of time you need is modest I'm probably available at little to no
cost too:)
My Vne is 204 kt. which I'd think would do it. Vno is 166 and Va is 140
FWIW.
Glad to hear progress is being made.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:05 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph. Should be an interesting
flight test. We were going to use the DERs Mooney as a chase plane,
but, the Tiger has a higher Vne. Weird huh. Now, we have to find
another plane, and I have to pay the pilot to fly a chase plane during
the dive. I have a stock Tiger instrumented and will be doing some
flight tests tomorrow. One of the costs projected for the installation
that I hadn't considered earlier is the cost of the baffles. They are
turning out to be higher than I thought. The installation instructions
are 29 pages so far. But, then, the FAA hasn't had a chance to look at
them yet. $10,000+ and counting . . . . .
I have also hired a structural engineer to come up with a fix for the
horizontal braces. Unlike the current fix which just replaces the
bent/cracked parts with the same parts, this is a whole new
installation. I am also looking into a metal-to-metal bonding
procedure that is more like the original structure and doesn't use fuel
tank sealant as an adhesive. I'm going for an STC for a permanent fix,
just in case I need to fix my plane some day. $4000+ and counting . .
. . .
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
(in Beautiful) Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Thanks. I can ask. You would need to get your pitot system certified.
The airspeed indicator and altimeter must be certified as well. You
would need to be available (i.e., the plane would need to be available)
for anytime the DER is ready to flight test.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: James Courtney <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 9:58 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
Gary, what kind of schedule would you be on for the test flights? I
might
be able to chase you a few times depending on when. I'm having some
work
done to my plane later this month/early October but after that maybe?
If
the amount of time you need is modest I'm probably available at little
to no
cost too:)
My Vne is 204 kt. which I'd think would do it. Vno is 166 and Va is 140
FWIW.
Glad to hear progress is being made.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:05 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph. Should be an interesting
flight test. We were going to use the DERs Mooney as a chase plane,
but, the Tiger has a higher Vne. Weird huh. Now, we have to find
another plane, and I have to pay the pilot to fly a chase plane during
the dive. I have a stock Tiger instrumented and will be doing some
flight tests tomorrow. One of the costs projected for the installation
that I hadn't considered earlier is the cost of the baffles. They are
turning out to be higher than I thought. The installation instructions
are 29 pages so far. But, then, the FAA hasn't had a chance to look at
them yet. $10,000+ and counting . . . . .
I have also hired a structural engineer to come up with a fix for the
horizontal braces. Unlike the current fix which just replaces the
bent/cracked parts with the same parts, this is a whole new
installation. I am also looking into a metal-to-metal bonding
procedure that is more like the original structure and doesn't use fuel
tank sealant as an adhesive. I'm going for an STC for a permanent fix,
just in case I need to fix my plane some day. $4000+ and counting . .
. . .
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
(in Beautiful) Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <hoot7(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07 |
Gary,
I can chase you also. My annual is coming up in October so we'd have to
work around that.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "TeamGrumman-List Digest Server" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete TeamGrumman-List Digest can also be found in either of
> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the TeamGrumman-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-09-11&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-09-11&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 09/11/07: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:06 PM - Cowling Update. Horizontal braces (teamgrumman(at)aol.com)
> 2. 09:58 PM - Re: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces (James Courtney)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
> From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
>
>
> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph. Should be an interesting
> flight test. We were going to use the DERs Mooney as a chase plane,
> but, the Tiger has a higher Vne. Weird huh. Now, we have to find
> another plane, and I have to pay the pilot to fly a chase plane during
> the dive. I have a stock Tiger instrumented and will be doing some
> flight tests tomorrow. One of the costs projected for the installation
> that I hadn't considered earlier is the cost of the baffles. They are
> turning out to be higher than I thought. The installation instructions
> are 29 pages so far. But, then, the FAA hasn't had a chance to look at
> them yet. $10,000+ and counting . . . . .
>
> I have also hired a structural engineer to come up with a fix for the
> horizontal braces. Unlike the current fix which just replaces the
> bent/cracked parts with the same parts, this is a whole new
> installation. I am also looking into a metal-to-metal bonding
> procedure that is more like the original structure and doesn't use fuel
> tank sealant as an adhesive. I'm going for an STC for a permanent fix,
> just in case I need to fix my plane some day. $4000+ and counting . .
> . . .
>
> Gary
> AuCountry Aviation
> (in Beautiful) Auburn, CA
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
>
>
> Gary, what kind of schedule would you be on for the test flights? I might
> be able to chase you a few times depending on when. I'm having some work
> done to my plane later this month/early October but after that maybe? If
> the amount of time you need is modest I'm probably available at little to
> no
> cost too:)
>
> My Vne is 204 kt. which I'd think would do it. Vno is 166 and Va is 140
> FWIW.
>
> Glad to hear progress is being made.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> teamgrumman(at)aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:05 PM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
>
>
> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph. Should be an interesting
> flight test. We were going to use the DERs Mooney as a chase plane,
> but, the Tiger has a higher Vne. Weird huh. Now, we have to find
> another plane, and I have to pay the pilot to fly a chase plane during
> the dive. I have a stock Tiger instrumented and will be doing some
> flight tests tomorrow. One of the costs projected for the installation
> that I hadn't considered earlier is the cost of the baffles. They are
> turning out to be higher than I thought. The installation instructions
> are 29 pages so far. But, then, the FAA hasn't had a chance to look at
> them yet. $10,000+ and counting . . . . .
>
> I have also hired a structural engineer to come up with a fix for the
> horizontal braces. Unlike the current fix which just replaces the
> bent/cracked parts with the same parts, this is a whole new
> installation. I am also looking into a metal-to-metal bonding
> procedure that is more like the original structure and doesn't use fuel
> tank sealant as an adhesive. I'm going for an STC for a permanent fix,
> just in case I need to fix my plane some day. $4000+ and counting . .
> . . .
>
> Gary
> AuCountry Aviation
> (in Beautiful) Auburn, CA
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07 |
> I can chase you also. My annual is coming up in October so we'd have to
> work around that.
>> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
>> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
>> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph.
It sounds like you'll need a plane with a Vne at least 220 mph based on what
Gary said. That would take a Bonanza or Columbia or some such. The V35B
has a Vne of 225 mph and the A36 is 234mph. I wouldn't even think of flying
a 30 year old one that fast unless the air was extreemly smooth and
conditions were right. It would take a dive in the Bonanza to even get to
220 mph. Doing that in formation (loose) with a diving Grumman while trying
to watch the airspeed indication, etc. would prove quite interesting!
Cliff A&P/IA
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07 |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Thanks Dan. Are you ready to get all of your instruments certified?
It could be fun. I won't be using my plane, but another, more stock
Tiger. It should be interesting to see how fast I get to 200 mph.
-----Original Message-----
From: hoot7(at)earthlink.net
Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 6:51 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
09/11/07
Gary,
I can chase you also. My annual is coming up in October so we'd have
to
work around that.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "TeamGrumman-List Digest Server" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete TeamGrumman-List Digest can also be found in either
of
> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the TeamGrumman-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-09-11&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-09-11&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 09/11/07: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:06 PM - Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
(teamgrumman(at)aol.com)
> 2. 09:58 PM - Re: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces (James
Courtney)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
> From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
>
>
> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph. Should be an interesting
> flight test. We were going to use the DERs Mooney as a chase plane,
> but, the Tiger has a higher Vne. Weird huh. Now, we have to find
> another plane, and I have to pay the pilot to fly a chase plane
during
> the dive. I have a stock Tiger instrumented and will be doing some
> flight tests tomorrow. One of the costs projected for the
installation
> that I hadn't considered earlier is the cost of the baffles. They
are
> turning out to be higher than I thought. The installation
instructions
> are 29 pages so far. But, then, the FAA hasn't had a chance to look
at
> them yet. $10,000+ and counting . . . . .
>
> I have also hired a structural engineer to come up with a fix for the
> horizontal braces. Unlike the current fix which just replaces the
> bent/cracked parts with the same parts, this is a whole new
> installation. I am also looking into a metal-to-metal bonding
> procedure that is more like the original structure and doesn't use
fuel
> tank sealant as an adhesive. I'm going for an STC for a permanent
fix,
> just in case I need to fix my plane some day. $4000+ and counting .
.
> . . .
>
> Gary
> AuCountry Aviation
> (in Beautiful) Auburn, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
-
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
>
>
> Gary, what kind of schedule would you be on for the test flights? I
might
> be able to chase you a few times depending on when. I'm having some
work
> done to my plane later this month/early October but after that maybe?
If
> the amount of time you need is modest I'm probably available at
little to
> no
> cost too:)
>
> My Vne is 204 kt. which I'd think would do it. Vno is 166 and Va is
140
> FWIW.
>
> Glad to hear progress is being made.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> teamgrumman(at)aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:05 PM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Horizontal braces
>
>
>
> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph. Should be an interesting
> flight test. We were going to use the DERs Mooney as a chase plane,
> but, the Tiger has a higher Vne. Weird huh. Now, we have to find
> another plane, and I have to pay the pilot to fly a chase plane
during
> the dive. I have a stock Tiger instrumented and will be doing some
> flight tests tomorrow. One of the costs projected for the
installation
> that I hadn't considered earlier is the cost of the baffles. They
are
> turning out to be higher than I thought. The installation
instructions
> are 29 pages so far. But, then, the FAA hasn't had a chance to look
at
> them yet. $10,000+ and counting . . . . .
>
> I have also hired a structural engineer to come up with a fix for the
> horizontal braces. Unlike the current fix which just replaces the
> bent/cracked parts with the same parts, this is a whole new
> installation. I am also looking into a metal-to-metal bonding
> procedure that is more like the original structure and doesn't use
fuel
> tank sealant as an adhesive. I'm going for an STC for a permanent
fix,
> just in case I need to fix my plane some day. $4000+ and counting .
.
> . . .
>
> Gary
> AuCountry Aviation
> (in Beautiful) Auburn, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
-
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07 |
Good point, how tight a formation/chase are we talking here? I don't have
my formation training yet. Yes, that would be a dive in the Bo for sure.
What sort of things is one trying to observe from the chase plane?
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
09/11/07
-->
> I can chase you also. My annual is coming up in October so we'd have
> to
> work around that.
>> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
>> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
>> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph.
It sounds like you'll need a plane with a Vne at least 220 mph based on what
Gary said. That would take a Bonanza or Columbia or some such. The V35B
has a Vne of 225 mph and the A36 is 234mph. I wouldn't even think of flying
a 30 year old one that fast unless the air was extreemly smooth and
conditions were right. It would take a dive in the Bonanza to even get to
220 mph. Doing that in formation (loose) with a diving Grumman while trying
to watch the airspeed indication, etc. would prove quite interesting!
Cliff A&P/IA
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07 |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
The chase plane, calibrated, is used to verify the dive speed. It has
to be flown in failrly close formation.
I did some of the 'company' flight testing today. I pushed the nose
over at 9500 feet and by 7000 feet we were at 200 mph. Easing back on
the yoke, recovered by 6500 feet. Piece-'o-cake.
Dan, if you're listening . . . . . . The DER is in Lincoln. It would
be really convient if you could work with us for the testing. And, as
I recall, you've done your fair share of formation flying. Do you
think you could find an F-4 to do formation?
-----Original Message-----
From: James Courtney <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 3:52 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
09/11/07
Good point, how tight a formation/chase are we talking here? I don't
have
my formation training yet. Yes, that would be a dive in the Bo for
sure.
What sort of things is one trying to observe from the chase plane?
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
09/11/07
-->
> I can chase you also. My annual is coming up in October so we'd
have
> to
> work around that.
>> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
>> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
>> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph.
It sounds like you'll need a plane with a Vne at least 220 mph based on
what
Gary said. That would take a Bonanza or Columbia or some such. The
V35B
has a Vne of 225 mph and the A36 is 234mph. I wouldn't even think of
flying
a 30 year old one that fast unless the air was extreemly smooth and
conditions were right. It would take a dive in the Bonanza to even get
to
220 mph. Doing that in formation (loose) with a diving Grumman while
trying
to watch the airspeed indication, etc. would prove quite interesting!
Cliff A&P/IA
--
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cowling Update. Redux |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
I almost forgot.
They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
strikes.
So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
lightning strike tests?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update. Redux |
How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
> I almost forgot.
>
> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
> strikes.
>
> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
> lightning strike tests?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> --
> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> |
| Subject: | Cowling Update. Redux |
I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up which I
guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly over
the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs. a
Hawker 4000 though.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
-->
How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
> I almost forgot.
>
> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
> strikes.
>
> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
> lightning strike tests?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> --
> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update. Redux |
Did you go to the ABS convention at Wichita? How many Bonanzas were there?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up which I
> guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly over
> the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs. a
> Hawker 4000 though.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> -->
>
> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>> I almost forgot.
>>
>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>> strikes.
>>
>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>> lightning strike tests?
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
>> http://mail.aol.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
> 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Cowling Update. Redux |
The question to ask them would be "what specification does it have to meet?"
Lightening strike sounds rather vague.....:^)
gil A
At 09:04 AM 9/13/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
>Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
>aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up which I
>guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly over
>the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs. a
>Hawker 4000 though.
>
>Jamey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> |
| Subject: | OT: ABS convention |
Yep, flew out with a friend for a couple of days. 360ish Bonanza's and
Barons I think. The factory tour was clearly the highlight and would have
been cool regardless of what kind of aircraft you own. Everything from A36s
to the T-6 Texan II trainer to the Hawker 4000 using conventional aluminum
construction techniques to metal bonding to high-end carbon fiber honeycombs
for the majority of some airframes. A very cool metal factory with huge CNC
machines and sheet metal forming equipment. Interestingly the oldest
machine in the factory is a 60,000 lb. sheet metal press. The only item
they can't make on any other machine is the magnesium elevator skins for the
Bonanza. Go figure.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
-->
Did you go to the ABS convention at Wichita? How many Bonanzas were there?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up
> which I guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events
> evenly over the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee
> Grumman vs. a Hawker 4000 though.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> flyv35b
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> -->
>
> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>> I almost forgot.
>>
>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>> strikes.
>>
>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>> lightning strike tests?
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> ___
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
>> http://mail.aol.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
> 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jason Bowman <jbowman90(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update. Redux |
Don't know how other ones are passing the test, but the way composites are
typically given lightning protection is to embed a metal mesh in the layup. I
didn't think this was critical for fiberglass, only graphite composites.
Graphic will conduct, but it also has higher resistance than metal. So a bolt
of lightning will cause extremely rapid heating, in other words an explosion.
By embedding a metal mesh, you are providing a lower impedance path for the
electrons to flow. I wonder if you could argue that there is already a bunch
of fiberglass (wingtips, nose bowl) on the Grummans to get out of the testing.
Jason
>
> I almost forgot.
>
> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
> strikes.
>
> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
> lightning strike tests?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update. Redux |
And maybe more importantly did American General have to embed any metal in
their cowling?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Bowman" <jbowman90(at)YAHOO.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 4:52 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Cowling Update. Redux
>
> Don't know how other ones are passing the test, but the way composites are
> typically given lightning protection is to embed a metal mesh in the
> layup. I
> didn't think this was critical for fiberglass, only graphite composites.
> Graphic will conduct, but it also has higher resistance than metal. So a
> bolt
> of lightning will cause extremely rapid heating, in other words an
> explosion.
> By embedding a metal mesh, you are providing a lower impedance path for
> the
> electrons to flow. I wonder if you could argue that there is already a
> bunch
> of fiberglass (wingtips, nose bowl) on the Grummans to get out of the
> testing.
>
> Jason
>
>>
>> I almost forgot.
>>
>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>> strikes.
>>
>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>> lightning strike tests?
>
>
> --
> 9/13/2007 11:45 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update. Redux |
Just toured the Columbia factory Wednesday and saw the wire mesh installed on the
outer surface of the"fiberglass" wing. The wing has very little carbon fiber
in it, only at a few hard spots is carbon used n the Columbia.
I don't think my AG5B has any metal mesh or other lightning strike considerations
in the cowl. It does consist of carbon fiber and fiberglass.
I just don't think the FAA should be able to hold Gary's cowl to regulations not
in force at the time the TCDS was approved on the grummans....I think this was
true of the AG5B
---- Jason Bowman wrote:
Don't know how other ones are passing the test, but the way composites are
typically given lightning protection is to embed a metal mesh in the layup. I
didn't think this was critical for fiberglass, only graphite composites.
Graphic will conduct, but it also has higher resistance than metal. So a bolt
of lightning will cause extremely rapid heating, in other words an explosion.
By embedding a metal mesh, you are providing a lower impedance path for the
electrons to flow. I wonder if you could argue that there is already a bunch
of fiberglass (wingtips, nose bowl) on the Grummans to get out of the testing.
Jason
>
> I almost forgot.
>
> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
> strikes.
>
> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
> lightning strike tests?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <hoot7(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/13/07 |
Gary,
I'm off to Reno today, will contact you off line when I get back next
week.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "TeamGrumman-List Digest Server" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/13/07
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete TeamGrumman-List Digest can also be found in either of
> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the TeamGrumman-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-09-13&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-09-13&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 09/13/07: 7
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:13 AM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07
> (teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM)
> 2. 01:59 AM - Cowling Update. Redux (teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM)
> 3. 05:47 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (flyv35b)
> 4. 09:04 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (James Courtney)
> 5. 09:15 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (flyv35b)
> 6. 10:03 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (Gil Alexander)
> 7. 10:10 AM - OT: ABS convention (James Courtney)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
> 09/11/07
> From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
>
>
> The chase plane, calibrated, is used to verify the dive speed. It has
> to be flown in failrly close formation.
>
> I did some of the 'company' flight testing today. I pushed the nose
> over at 9500 feet and by 7000 feet we were at 200 mph. Easing back on
> the yoke, recovered by 6500 feet. Piece-'o-cake.
>
> Dan, if you're listening . . . . . . The DER is in Lincoln. It would
> be really convient if you could work with us for the testing. And, as
> I recall, you've done your fair share of formation flying. Do you
> think you could find an F-4 to do formation?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Courtney <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 3:52 pm
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
> 09/11/07
>
>
>
>
> Good point, how tight a formation/chase are we talking here? I don't
> have
> my formation training yet. Yes, that would be a dive in the Bo for
> sure.
> What sort of things is one trying to observe from the chase plane?
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> flyv35b
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:24 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
> 09/11/07
>
>
> -->
>
>> I can chase you also. My annual is coming up in October so we'd
> have
>> to
>> work around that.
>
>>> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
>>> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
>>> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph.
>
> It sounds like you'll need a plane with a Vne at least 220 mph based on
> what
>
> Gary said. That would take a Bonanza or Columbia or some such. The
> V35B
> has a Vne of 225 mph and the A36 is 234mph. I wouldn't even think of
> flying
>
> a 30 year old one that fast unless the air was extreemly smooth and
> conditions were right. It would take a dive in the Bonanza to even get
> to
> 220 mph. Doing that in formation (loose) with a diving Grumman while
> trying
>
> to watch the airspeed indication, etc. would prove quite interesting!
>
> Cliff A&P/IA
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
> From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
>
>
> I almost forgot.
>
> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
> strikes.
>
> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
> lightning strike tests?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>> I almost forgot.
>>
>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>> strikes.
>>
>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>> lightning strike tests?
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
>> http://mail.aol.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up which I
> guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly over
> the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs. a
> Hawker 4000 though.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> -->
>
> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>> I almost forgot.
>>
>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>> strikes.
>>
>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>> lightning strike tests?
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
>> http://mail.aol.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> Did you go to the ABS convention at Wichita? How many Bonanzas were
> there?
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:04 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>>
>> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
>> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
>> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up which I
>> guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly over
>> the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs. a
>> Hawker 4000 though.
>>
>> Jamey
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>> -->
>>
>> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
>> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I almost forgot.
>>>
>>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>>> strikes.
>>>
>>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>>> lightning strike tests?
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
>>> http://mail.aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> --
>> 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
> The question to ask them would be "what specification does it have to
> meet?"
>
> Lightening strike sounds rather vague.....:^)
>
> gil A
>
>
> At 09:04 AM 9/13/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
>>Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
>>aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up which I
>>guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly over
>>the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs. a
>>Hawker 4000 though.
>>
>>Jamey
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: OT: ABS convention
>
>
> Yep, flew out with a friend for a couple of days. 360ish Bonanza's and
> Barons I think. The factory tour was clearly the highlight and would have
> been cool regardless of what kind of aircraft you own. Everything from
> A36s
> to the T-6 Texan II trainer to the Hawker 4000 using conventional aluminum
> construction techniques to metal bonding to high-end carbon fiber
> honeycombs
> for the majority of some airframes. A very cool metal factory with huge
> CNC
> machines and sheet metal forming equipment. Interestingly the oldest
> machine in the factory is a 60,000 lb. sheet metal press. The only item
> they can't make on any other machine is the magnesium elevator skins for
> the
> Bonanza. Go figure.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyv35b
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:16 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> -->
>
> Did you go to the ABS convention at Wichita? How many Bonanzas were
> there?
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:04 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>>
>> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
>> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts have
>> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up
>> which I guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events
>> evenly over the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee
>> Grumman vs. a Hawker 4000 though.
>>
>> Jamey
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> flyv35b
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>> -->
>>
>> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
>> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I almost forgot.
>>>
>>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>>> strikes.
>>>
>>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>>> lightning strike tests?
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> ___
>>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
>>> http://mail.aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> --
>> 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/13/07 |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Dan, I'm heading up there in about an hour. I'll try you on your cell.
-----Original Message-----
From: hoot7(at)earthlink.net
Sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 8:32 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 7 Msgs -
09/13/07
Gary,
I'm off to Reno today, will contact you off line when I get back next
week.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "TeamGrumman-List Digest Server" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/13/07
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete TeamGrumman-List Digest can also be found in either
of
> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the TeamGrumman-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-09-13&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-09-13&Archive=TeamGrumman
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 09/13/07: 7
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:13 AM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/07
> (teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM)
> 2. 01:59 AM - Cowling Update. Redux (teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM)
> 3. 05:47 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (flyv35b)
> 4. 09:04 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (James Courtney)
> 5. 09:15 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (flyv35b)
> 6. 10:03 AM - Re: Cowling Update. Redux (Gil Alexander)
> 7. 10:10 AM - OT: ABS convention (James Courtney)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
> 09/11/07
> From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
>
>
> The chase plane, calibrated, is used to verify the dive speed. It
has
> to be flown in failrly close formation.
>
> I did some of the 'company' flight testing today. I pushed the nose
> over at 9500 feet and by 7000 feet we were at 200 mph. Easing back
on
> the yoke, recovered by 6500 feet. Piece-'o-cake.
>
> Dan, if you're listening . . . . . . The DER is in Lincoln. It would
> be really convient if you could work with us for the testing. And,
as
> I recall, you've done your fair share of formation flying. Do you
> think you could find an F-4 to do formation?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Courtney <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 3:52 pm
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
> 09/11/07
>
>
>
>
> Good point, how tight a formation/chase are we talking here? I don't
> have
> my formation training yet. Yes, that would be a dive in the Bo for
> sure.
> What sort of things is one trying to observe from the chase plane?
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> flyv35b
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:24 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
> 09/11/07
>
>
> -->
>
>> I can chase you also. My annual is coming up in October so we'd
> have
>> to
>> work around that.
>
>>> Well folks, we're getting there. We met with the FAA last Friday.
>>> I'll need to do the carb heat rise test. I also need to do a dive
>>> test. I need to dive the plane to 220 mph.
>
> It sounds like you'll need a plane with a Vne at least 220 mph based
on
> what
>
> Gary said. That would take a Bonanza or Columbia or some such. The
> V35B
> has a Vne of 225 mph and the A36 is 234mph. I wouldn't even think of
> flying
>
> a 30 year old one that fast unless the air was extreemly smooth and
> conditions were right. It would take a dive in the Bonanza to even
get
> to
> 220 mph. Doing that in formation (loose) with a diving Grumman while
> trying
>
> to watch the airspeed indication, etc. would prove quite interesting!
>
> Cliff A&P/IA
>
>
> --
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
-
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
> From: teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM
>
>
> I almost forgot.
>
> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
> strikes.
>
> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
> lightning strike tests?
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
-
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>> I almost forgot.
>>
>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>> strikes.
>>
>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>> lightning strike tests?
>>
________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! -
>> http://mail.aol.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts
have
> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up
which I
> guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly
over
> the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs.
a
> Hawker 4000 though.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> -->
>
> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>> I almost forgot.
>>
>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>> strikes.
>>
>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>> lightning strike tests?
>>
________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! -
>> http://mail.aol.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> Did you go to the ABS convention at Wichita? How many Bonanzas were
> there?
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:04 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>>
>> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
>> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts
have
>> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up
which I
>> guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly
over
>> the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman
vs. a
>> Hawker 4000 though.
>>
>> Jamey
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>> -->
>>
>> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
>> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I almost forgot.
>>>
>>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>>> strikes.
>>>
>>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>>> lightning strike tests?
>>>
________________________________________________________________________
>>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! -
>>> http://mail.aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> --
>> 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
> The question to ask them would be "what specification does it have to
> meet?"
>
> Lightening strike sounds rather vague.....:^)
>
> gil A
>
>
> At 09:04 AM 9/13/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
>>Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts
have
>>aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up
which I
>>guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such events evenly
over
>>the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a wee Grumman vs.
a
>>Hawker 4000 though.
>>
>>Jamey
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: OT: ABS convention
>
>
> Yep, flew out with a friend for a couple of days. 360ish Bonanza's
and
> Barons I think. The factory tour was clearly the highlight and would
have
> been cool regardless of what kind of aircraft you own. Everything
from
> A36s
> to the T-6 Texan II trainer to the Hawker 4000 using conventional
aluminum
> construction techniques to metal bonding to high-end carbon fiber
> honeycombs
> for the majority of some airframes. A very cool metal factory with
huge
> CNC
> machines and sheet metal forming equipment. Interestingly the oldest
> machine in the factory is a 60,000 lb. sheet metal press. The only
item
> they can't make on any other machine is the magnesium elevator skins
for
> the
> Bonanza. Go figure.
>
> Jamey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flyv35b
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:16 AM
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
> -->
>
> Did you go to the ABS convention at Wichita? How many Bonanzas were
> there?
>
> Cliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:04 AM
> Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>
>
>>
>>
>> I don't know how you'd demonstrate that but I just got to tour the
>> Hawker-Beech factories and their carbon-fiber fuselages and parts
have
>> aluminum (I think) woven in the top layer of fabric in the lay-up
>> which I guess somehow ties into a system for distributing such
events
>> evenly over the airframe. This seems excessive for the cowl on a
wee
>> Grumman vs. a Hawker 4000 though.
>>
>> Jamey
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> flyv35b
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:48 AM
>> To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>> -->
>>
>> How did American General do it - or did they? What a bunch of BS!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:58 AM
>> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update. Redux
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I almost forgot.
>>>
>>> They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
>>> strikes.
>>>
>>> So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
>>> lightning strike tests?
>>>
_____________________________________________________________________
>>> ___
>>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! -
>>> http://mail.aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> --
>> 9/12/2007 10:56 AM
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stieber <flyhoss(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update. Redux |
Have you asked to see the regulatory basis for this?
I almost forgot.
They now want me to show that my cowling is resistant to lightning
strikes.
So, does anyone know how other fiberglass cowlings are passing the
lightning strike tests?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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---------------------------------
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on
Yahoo! TV.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
It looks like the lightning strike issue has been resolved. I'll know
more in a week or two. The FAA flight tests on the stock plane are
completed and approved. The Power Flow didn't heat the carb heat the
required 90 degreed rise at 10,000 feet. (we got 86) so, I need to
investigate the locating of the probe. Next step is to get my new
cowling on the plane and redo all of the tests.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update |
Gary... how about a little stainless steel wool around the tubes in
the PowerFlow "box" to improve the heat transfer?
The ins and outs on my PowerFlow are also not very well sealed in the "box"...
gil A
At 10:41 AM 9/30/2007, you wrote:
>
>It looks like the lightning strike issue has been resolved. I'll
>know more in a week or two. The FAA flight tests on the stock plane
>are completed and approved. The Power Flow didn't heat the carb
>heat the required 90 degreed rise at 10,000 feet. (we got 86) so, I
>need to investigate the locating of the probe. Next step is to get
>my new cowling on the plane and redo all of the tests.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update |
What do you mean "resolved"? Did the FAA or the DER decide it wasn't
necessary and if so, why?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:41 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update
>
> It looks like the lightning strike issue has been resolved. I'll know
> more in a week or two. The FAA flight tests on the stock plane are
> completed and approved. The Power Flow didn't heat the carb heat the
> required 90 degreed rise at 10,000 feet. (we got 86) so, I need to
> investigate the locating of the probe. Next step is to get my new cowling
> on the plane and redo all of the tests.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> --
> 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Update |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
I'll let you know after the testing is completed and that particular
FAR is eliminated as a requirement.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:04 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update
What do you mean "resolved"? Did the FAA or the DER decide it wasn't
necessary and if so, why?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:41 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling Update
>
> It looks like the lightning strike issue has been resolved. I'll
know
> more in a week or two. The FAA flight tests on the stock plane are
> completed and approved. The Power Flow didn't heat the carb heat the
> required 90 degreed rise at 10,000 feet. (we got 86) so, I need to
> investigate the locating of the probe. Next step is to get my new
cowling
> on the plane and redo all of the tests.
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
-
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cowling installation |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
In case you've forgotten, the original "First Installation" was
terminated when the owner felt it was taking too long. It's my fault
of course. I thought I'd made it clear I needed a plane to finish the
installation instructions and certification on a STOCK plane. Mine was
not acceptable because I could not conform my installation to the
installation instructions. It's a long story but that's the way the
FAA works.
So, Jeff Keesaman stepped to the plate. He brought his plane up here
6 weeks ago. The first set of tests were interesting. I had to do
(compnay test) all of the proposed testing on a stock plane to get a
base-line. Then, once I was happy with the results, hire a DER to get
an FAA approved flight test plan. Then, once the the approved test
plan was in hand, redo the tests with the stock plane. Those tests are
completed.
It took 4 hours to remove the original cowling and baffles from the
stock plane and another 6 hours to install the new baffles and relocate
a few wires. Oddly, the baffles that fit on the first plane didn't fit
everywhere on the second plane. Very weird. Today, I finish up the
baffles and trial fit the cowling.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Courtney" <jamey(at)jamescourtney.net> |
| Subject: | Cowling installation |
Fantastic Gary! Good luck with the remaining steps.
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling installation
In case you've forgotten, the original "First Installation" was
terminated when the owner felt it was taking too long. It's my fault
of course. I thought I'd made it clear I needed a plane to finish the
installation instructions and certification on a STOCK plane. Mine was
not acceptable because I could not conform my installation to the
installation instructions. It's a long story but that's the way the
FAA works.
So, Jeff Keesaman stepped to the plate. He brought his plane up here
6 weeks ago. The first set of tests were interesting. I had to do
(compnay test) all of the proposed testing on a stock plane to get a
base-line. Then, once I was happy with the results, hire a DER to get
an FAA approved flight test plan. Then, once the the approved test
plan was in hand, redo the tests with the stock plane. Those tests are
completed.
It took 4 hours to remove the original cowling and baffles from the
stock plane and another 6 hours to install the new baffles and relocate
a few wires. Oddly, the baffles that fit on the first plane didn't fit
everywhere on the second plane. Very weird. Today, I finish up the
baffles and trial fit the cowling.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cowling installation |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
I finished up the baffle installation yesterday. Then, OBOE, I decided
that by 6p I decided to go home.
part of the carb heat test is to measure the temperature rise with carb
heat. I think I mentioned that the stock plane didn't pass the test at
9500 feet. With my cowling on the plane, I have to pass the test. So,
I have to figure out a way to measure the temp to get the highest
temperature rise. So, before I put the cowling on today, I need to
look into finding a good place to mount the sensor.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Just a heads up.
I replaced the alternator in an AG5B with the Plane Power Alternator.
If you are familiar with the PP Alternator installation, they use a
hardened bushing to center the alternator on the mounting bolt. After
installation, the pulley was off a good 1/8 to 3/16 inch from the ring
gear pulley. When I called PP, they said they've known about the
problem and it was because the bushing was machined wrong. They had
another bushing they'd SELL me. I told them it was there problem and I
shouldn't have to buy another bushing. She put me on hold for several
minutes and then said she'd send a new part. She asked when I needed
it. Since I was AOG, I said, "Now." She said she'd send it next day.
Then, about a week later, I got a bill for next day shipping. $42.56. I
didn't pay it right away. A month later, I got a nasty-gram saying my
bill was being turned over for collection.
Not a very user-friendly company. Too bad they make such a nice
alternator.
Oh, my biggest gripe with their alternators is the location of the
studs for the battery and field.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Over-Voltage relay |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Here is a first
You know the over-voltage relay moounted on the firewall on 78 and 79
Grummans? Today I found one that had been by-passed. It was still
there, the input/output had been bridged with an in-line connector.
Very weird. The same plane had the ground on the microphone (the one
on the console) was wired to the ground on the speaker. Then, there
was a noise filter on the radio. This Tiger is getting an all new
Garmin stack. So, to make room for the new stack, I had to remove
everything. What a mess. Lots of installs and no complete removals.
This plane has a history of electrical gremlins. Both Coms have been
sent out for repair 5 times in two years. The transponder was inop
most of the time. The owner will be really happy with the new stuff.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
The cowling is installed on 1976T. It didn't fit exactly the same as
the original installation. I think I know now why the clearances on
the stock cowling and baffles are so sloppy. The next step is to get
the cam locks installed and finish the painting of the cowling.
Once the cowling is approved, the first 5 installations will be $9500,
installed, painted to match. The DER wants me to install the first 5
for verification of the installation instructions. The DER will be
monitoring the instllation and comparing what I do to the actual
installtion.
--------
On a similar note . . . . is there any interest in a fiberglass copy of
the AA1 cowling?
Is there a difference in the cowlings based on year/model?
How about a hinged upper cowling?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Misalignment of PP is unsightly on an AG5B |
You must of dealt with Mrs PP.
I dealt with Mr PP. Both seem to have a pissed attitude but MR PP is not quite
as 'short' as Mrs PP.
Mr PP flew his twin from granbury, Texas to my place in Oklahoma the morning of
July 4rth to troubleshoot the miss alignment of PP on the AG5B. Misalignment
of PP is unsightly on an AG5B.
Turned out that the Lycoming bracket as originally supplied from the factory had
been misdrilled and that the pulley mis alignment existed before PP entered
the picture. This discovered after trying every combination of PP brackets and
me mentioning that I had assumed that the original alternator was in alignment.
A quick reinstall of the original confirmed it had been out of alignment prior
to PPing.
So before one PP's be sure your alignment is good.
---- teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
Just a heads up.
I replaced the alternator in an AG5B with the Plane Power Alternator.
If you are familiar with the PP Alternator installation, they use a
hardened bushing to center the alternator on the mounting bolt. After
installation, the pulley was off a good 1/8 to 3/16 inch from the ring
gear pulley. When I called PP, they said they've known about the
problem and it was because the bushing was machined wrong. They had
another bushing they'd SELL me. I told them it was there problem and I
shouldn't have to buy another bushing. She put me on hold for several
minutes and then said she'd send a new part. She asked when I needed
it. Since I was AOG, I said, "Now." She said she'd send it next day.
Then, about a week later, I got a bill for next day shipping. $42.56. I
didn't pay it right away. A month later, I got a nasty-gram saying my
bill was being turned over for collection.
Not a very user-friendly company. Too bad they make such a nice
alternator.
Oh, my biggest gripe with their alternators is the location of the
studs for the battery and field.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-Voltage relay |
How do you bypass the VR and get any kind of voltage regulation? Did the
plane have an automotive alternator with an integral VR?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:13 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Over-Voltage relay
>
> Here is a first
>
> You know the over-voltage relay moounted on the firewall on 78 and 79
> Grummans? Today I found one that had been by-passed. It was still there,
> the input/output had been bridged with an in-line connector. Very weird.
> The same plane had the ground on the microphone (the one on the console)
> was wired to the ground on the speaker. Then, there was a noise filter on
> the radio. This Tiger is getting an all new Garmin stack. So, to make
> room for the new stack, I had to remove everything. What a mess. Lots of
> installs and no complete removals. This plane has a history of electrical
> gremlins. Both Coms have been sent out for repair 5 times in two years.
> The transponder was inop most of the time. The owner will be really happy
> with the new stuff.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> --
> 269.14.8/1066 - Release Date: 10/12/2007 11:10 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robyn VK6XRE" <vk6xre(at)waus.net> |
I think there would be some interest in a cowling for the pre 75 Traveler,
if others are like mine they are getting tatty with previous repairs and
riveted doublers etc.
Robyn
VH-ETT 1973 Traveler
YPJT Western Australia
Soon to be in NZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2007 4:25 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The cowling is installed on 1976T. It didn't fit exactly the same as
the original installation. I think I know now why the clearances on
the stock cowling and baffles are so sloppy. The next step is to get
the cam locks installed and finish the painting of the cowling.
Once the cowling is approved, the first 5 installations will be $9500,
installed, painted to match. The DER wants me to install the first 5
for verification of the installation instructions. The DER will be
monitoring the instllation and comparing what I do to the actual
installtion.
--------
On a similar note . . . . is there any interest in a fiberglass copy of
the AA1 cowling?
Is there a difference in the cowlings based on year/model?
How about a hinged upper cowling?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-Voltage relay |
Cliff... over-voltage protection, not regulation.
The regulator is still connected.... gil A
At 06:34 AM 10/13/2007, you wrote:
>
>How do you bypass the VR and get any kind of voltage
>regulation? Did the plane have an automotive alternator with an integral VR?
>
>Cliff
>----- Original Message ----- From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:13 AM
>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Over-Voltage relay
>
>
>>
>>Here is a first
>>
>>You know the over-voltage relay moounted on the firewall on 78 and
>>79 Grummans? Today I found one that had been by-passed. It was
>>still there, the input/output had been bridged with an in-line
>>connector. Very weird. The same plane had the ground on the
>>microphone (the one on the console) was wired to the ground on the
>>speaker. Then, there was a noise filter on the radio. This Tiger
>>is getting an all new Garmin stack. So, to make room for the new
>>stack, I had to remove everything. What a mess. Lots of installs
>>and no complete removals. This plane has a history of electrical
>>gremlins. Both Coms have been sent out for repair 5 times in two
>>years. The transponder was inop most of the time. The owner will
>>be really happy with the new stuff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-Voltage relay |
I guess I read the email to fast! I've heard of the relay being by-passed
when the Zeftronics ACU with the integral over voltage relay is installed.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: Gil Alexander
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Over-Voltage relay
Cliff... over-voltage protection, not regulation.
The regulator is still connected.... gil A
At 06:34 AM 10/13/2007, you wrote:
om>
How do you bypass the VR and get any kind of voltage regulation=3F Did t
he plane have an automotive alternator with an integral VR=3F
Cliff
----- Original Message ----- From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:13 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Over-Voltage relay
Here is a first
You know the over-voltage relay moounted on the firewall on 78 and 79
Grummans=3F Today I found one that had been by-passed. It was still there,
the input/output had been bridged with an in-line connector. Very weird.
The same plane had the ground on the microphone (the one on the console) wa
s wired to the ground on the speaker. Then, there was a noise filter on th
e radio. This Tiger is getting an all new Garmin stack. So, to make room
for the new stack, I had to remove everything. What a mess. Lots of insta
lls and no complete removals. This plane has a history of electrical greml
ins. Both Coms have been sent out for repair 5 times in two years. The tra
nsponder was inop most of the time. The owner will be really happy with th
e new stuff.
=5F-===========================================================
=5F-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum -
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=5F-= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
=5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
07 11:10 AM
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Hi Robyn,
Are you talking about a copy of the Traveler cowling or converting my
cowling to a Traveler. I would love to put my cowling on a Traveler.
Problem is, I don't have one, I'm not going to buy one (although I have
considered buying a Cheetah), and so far, no one has given me one for
an unspecified length of time to work out the installation differences
and get it certified. Maybe after I've sold 20 or 30 cowlings and
recouped some of my money I'll consider buying a Traveler just for that
purpose. The pre '75 Traveler would be easier than the 75 and up
AA5/AA5A.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn VK6XRE <vk6xre(at)waus.net>
Sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 7:51 am
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
I think there would be some interest in a cowling for the pre 75
Traveler,
if others are like mine they are getting tatty with previous repairs and
riveted doublers etc.
Robyn
VH-ETT 1973 Traveler
YPJT Western Australia
Soon to be in NZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2007 4:25 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
The cowling is installed on 1976T. It didn't fit exactly the same as
the original installation. I think I know now why the clearances on
the stock cowling and baffles are so sloppy. The next step is to get
the cam locks installed and finish the painting of the cowling.
Once the cowling is approved, the first 5 installations will be $9500,
installed, painted to match. The DER wants me to install the first 5
for verification of the installation instructions. The DER will be
monitoring the instllation and comparing what I do to the actual
installtion.
--------
On a similar note . . . . is there any interest in a fiberglass copy of
the AA1 cowling?
Is there a difference in the cowlings based on year/model?
How about a hinged upper cowling?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Over-Voltage relay |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
The OVER-Voltage relay was by passed. The voltage regulator was still
there.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
Sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 6:34 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Over-Voltage relay
How do you bypass the VR and get any kind of voltage regulation? Did
the
plane have an automotive alternator with an integral VR?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <teamgrumman(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:13 AM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Over-Voltage relay
>
> Here is a first
>
> You know the over-voltage relay moounted on the firewall on 78 and 79
> Grummans? Today I found one that had been by-passed. It was still
there,
> the input/output had been bridged with an in-line connector. Very
weird.
> The same plane had the ground on the microphone (the one on the
console)
> was wired to the ground on the speaker. Then, there was a noise
filter on
> the radio. This Tiger is getting an all new Garmin stack. So, to
make
> room for the new stack, I had to remove everything. What a mess.
Lots of
> installs and no complete removals. This plane has a history of
electrical
> gremlins. Both Coms have been sent out for repair 5 times in two
years.
> The transponder was inop most of the time. The owner will be really
happy
> with the new stuff.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
-
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 269.14.8/1066 - Release Date: 10/12/2007 11:10 AM
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling update |
| From: | n32romeo(at)aol.com |
Yes, I think there is a lot of interest in replacement AA-1 cowls.? Of most interest
is replacement top cowls, but I assume that you could not make a replacement
fiberglass top cowl that would mate with the original metal bottom cowl.?
But I think (depending on price of coarse) there would be interest in a complete?replacement
top and bottom cowls.? The only change I am aware of from the
original AA-1 cowl to the last AA-1C is the nose bowl change to the square inlets
starting with the '76 B model and the C model.
Rich Harrison
AA-1B N1632Romeo
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 1:25 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cowling update
?
The cowling is installed on 1976T. It didn't fit exactly the same as the original
installation. I think I know now why the clearances on the stock cowling and
baffles are so sloppy. The next step is to get the cam locks installed and finish
the painting of the cowling.?
?
Once the cowling is approved, the first 5 installations will be $9500, installed,
painted to match. The DER wants me to install the first 5 for verification
of the installation instructions. The DER will be monitoring the instllation and
comparing what I do to the actual installtion.?
?
--------?
?
On a similar note . . . . is there any interest in a fiberglass copy of the AA1
cowling??
?
Is there a difference in the cowlings based on year/model??
?
How about a hinged upper cowling??
________________________________________________________________________?
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics, used, for sale |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
I have a customer who is installing all new Garmin avionics
For sale:
PM-1000 II Intercom
KT-78A transponder
Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer
KN-64 DME
KMA-20 audio panel
Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L)
KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope
WX-950 strike finder.
Everything was working when removed.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eli Weingarden" <eli(at)weingarden.net> |
I am looking for the pitch computer and the controller / turn coordinator
for an STEC 30 autopilot for the Tiger. If anybody has these parts and would
like to sell them please let me know.
Thanks
Eli
eli(at)weingarden.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Kennedy <larrykennedy(at)nexet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics, used, for sale |
teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a customer who is installing all new Garmin avionics
>
> For sale:
>
> PM-1000 II Intercom
> KT-78A transponder
> Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer
> KN-64 DME
> KMA-20 audio panel
> Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L)
> KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope
> WX-950 strike finder.
>
> Everything was working when removed.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
> - http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> I would be interested in the MD40-65L
Larry Kennedy
540-948-6844
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics, used, for sale |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
Make an offer. I realy have no clue what it's worth.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Kennedy <larrykennedy(at)nexet.net>
Sent: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 6:39 am
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Avionics, used, for sale
teamgrumman(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a customer who is installing all new Garmin avionics
>
> For sale:
>
> PM-1000 II Intercom
> KT-78A transponder
> Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer
> KN-64 DME
> KMA-20 audio panel
> Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L)
> KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope
> WX-950 strike finder.
>
> Everything was working when removed.
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
> - http://mail.aol.com
>
>
>
> I would be interested in the MD40-65L
Larry Kennedy
540-948-6844
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jetinc(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics, used, for sale |
Hi Gary,
Got your vm and saw your e-mail. Glad you figured out the gremlins. As I recall,
there were only about 2 radio shop visits in 5 years. I'm glad Martin is
upgrading the panel. Does he have any more upgrades planned? Has he been flying
much? What about you?
Cheers,
Eddie
-------------- Original message --------------
From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com
>
> I have a customer who is installing all new Garmin avionics
>
> For sale:
>
> PM-1000 II Intercom
> KT-78A transponder
> Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer
> KN-64 DME
> KMA-20 audio panel
> Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L)
> KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope
> WX-950 strike finder.
>
> Everything was working when removed.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
>
>
Hi Gary,
Got your vm and saw your e-mail. Glad you figured out the gremlins.
As I recall, there were only about 2 radio shop visits in 5 years.
I'm glad Martin is upgrading the panel. Does he have any more upgrades
planned? Has he been flying much? What about you?
Cheers,
Eddie
n-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics, used, for sale |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
Hi Eddie,
Well, so far, I have about 50 hours in removing the old stuff, cleaning
up the interior of the plane from the tail to the firewall, removed all
of the old avionics (we're keeping the GX-60), removed a LOT of dyked
off wires, removed three coax wires that went no-where, rerouted all of
the remaining coax and wires, replaced all of the factory circuit
breakers with new breakers that can be pulled, removed 3 in-line fuses,
moved the JPI to above the tach, removed the electric trim, installed a
new aileron, replaced the rear side windows, replaced the plastic wheel
pants with fiberglass wheel pants, plus the annual, plus replacing the
tail nav light and flasshing beacon with a tail strobe. I'm sure there
is more. I just don't remember it all. It''ll be nice when he
replaces the interior. The plane desparately needs intrument panel
overlays.
So, how are you and Jenny doing? And your son? What's going on in
your life?
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: jetinc(at)comcast.net
Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Avionics, used, for sale
Hi Gary,
Got your vm and saw your e-mail. Glad you figured out the gremlins.
As I recall, there were only about 2 radio shop visits in 5 years. I'm
glad Martin is upgrading the panel. Does he have any more upgrades
planned? Has he been flying much? What about you?
Cheers,
Eddie
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Feinstein" <david(at)carneyaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Geological Air Tour |
For those who missed the spendid weather last Saturday, here are some shots of
the Great Second Geological Air Tour.
http://carneyaviation.com/geotour/
I apologize for the insipid message below;
It's inserted by a server where I work, and I can't control it.
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Geological Air Tour |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
VERY COOL! Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Feinstein <david(at)carneyaviation.com>
Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 8:15 am
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Geological Air Tour
For those who missed the spendid weather last Saturday, here are some
shots of
the Great Second Geological Air Tour.
http://carneyaviation.com/geotour/
I apologize for the insipid message below;
It's inserted by a server where I work, and I can't control it.
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: Avionics, used, for sale |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)aol.com |
For sale:
PM-1000 II Intercom(this may be sold.) if not, $150.
KT-78A transponder(this may be sold.) if not, $350.
Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer(included with transponder)
KN-64 DME. . . . $200
KMA-20 audio panel. . . . $250
Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L). . . . $500
KX-155 . . . . $2000 ($2500 with KI-209)
KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope. . . . $600
WX-950 strike finder.. . . . $2500
Everything was working when removed.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Carmichael" <RLC(at)rlcarmichael.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: Avionics, used, for sale |
I'll take the KN-64. How do you want to get paid?
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: Avionics, used, for sale
For sale:
PM-1000 II Intercom(this may be sold.) if not, $150.
KT-78A transponder(this may be sold.) if not, $350.
Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer(included with transponder)
KN-64 DME. . . . $200
KMA-20 audio panel. . . . $250
Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L). . . . $500
KX-155 . . . . $2000 ($2500 with KI-209)
KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope. . . . $600
WX-950 strike finder.. . . . $2500
Everything was working when removed.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
_________________________________________________________________
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with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Carmichael" <RLC(at)rlcarmichael.com> |
| Subject: | Cleaning out the hanger. |
Well actually the stuff is in a box in my office. Hanger and the plane are
already gone. Was working on a panel for project - one of the "C" planes.
I learned a lesson long ago - it's just a cheap to install a whole stack as
it is to install one radio. (Pretty close anyawy.) By the time that I got
what I wanted together I sold the darn plane. Buyer just wanted basic VFR
so he had no interest in buying radios to go with his new toy.
ALL King digital stuff in avg to like new condition. Some has tags, all
believed to be in operational order. If anything found to be DOA, I'll
refund the cost to fix up to your purchase price.
KNS-80 RNAV w/DME & GS $850
KI-204 OBS w/GS ind (use with KNS-80) $1,000
KI-208 like new $600
KN-53 Nav w/GS $600
KN-53 Nav NO GS $350
KY-97 Com $850
KY-196 Com (28V) $500
KT-79 Digital Transponder $1100
There is some good stuff here, but it's just collecting dust. I'm working
on a couple of things flying wise burning jet-A so I don't see me buying
another project anytime soon. Please help me find these poor radios a good
bird to call home.
I have PAYPAL account as well as I can take Visa and MasterCard. Will
consider reasonable offers but not going to give it away.
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: Avionics, used, for sale
For sale:
PM-1000 II Intercom(this may be sold.) if not, $150.
KT-78A transponder(this may be sold.) if not, $350.
Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer(included with transponder)
KN-64 DME. . . . $200
KMA-20 audio panel. . . . $250
Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L). . . . $500
KX-155 . . . . $2000 ($2500 with KI-209)
KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope. . . . $600
WX-950 strike finder.. . . . $2500
Everything was working when removed.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
_________________________________________________________________
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with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Avionics, used, for sale |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
That was a typo. See the current email
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Carmichael <RLC(at)rlcarmichael.com>
Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 1:43 pm
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: Avionics, used, for sale
I'll take the KN-64. How do you want to get paid?
Richard Carmichael
Appraisal Supervisor
RL Carmichael & Assoc, Inc
757-465-5600 Fax 757-465-5636
RLCarmichael.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Fwd: Avionics, used, for sale
For sale:
PM-1000 II Intercom(this may be sold.) if not, $150.
KT-78A transponder(this may be sold.) if not, $350.
Trans-Cal encoder w/Icarus 3000u digitizer(included with transponder)
KN-64 DME. . . . $200
KMA-20 audio panel. . . . $250
Mid-Continent CDI (Model MD40-65L). . . . $500
KX-155 . . . . $2000 ($2500 with KI-209)
KI-209 VOR/LOC converter-glide slope. . . . $600
WX-950 strike finder.. . . . $2500
Everything was working when removed.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
_________________________________________________________________
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with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics, update |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
KX-155: $2000
KI-209: $ 600
Mid-Cont-CDI: $ 500 (sold)
KMA-20 Audio panel: $ 250
PM-1000 II intercom: $ 150 (sold)
KT-78A Transponder: $ 350 (sold)
WX-950 Strike Finder: $2500
KN-64 DME: $1000
There was a typo on the cost of the DME. It was supposed to be $1200.
The owner will let it go for $1000.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More Avionics, Price decrease |
| From: | teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM |
The customer has asked me to lower prices to get his stuff sold.
Here are the old prices
KX-155: $2000
KI-209: $ 600
Mid-Cont-CDI: $ 500 (sold)
KMA-20 Audio panel: $ 250
PM-1000 II intercom: $ 150 (sold)
KT-78A Transponder: $ 350 (sold)
WX-950 Strike Finder: $2500
KN-64 DME: $1000
Here are the new prices
KX-155: $1800
KI-209: $ 500
-------- combined, $2200
KMA-20 Audio panel: $ 200
WX-950 Strike Finder: $2000
KN-64 DME: $ 800
Let me know if you're interested.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month! |
Dear Listers,
You've probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows or spam
from any of the List and Forum services at Matronics. These include, for example:
The Email List Postings - http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
The Email List Forum Site - http://forums.matronics.com
The List Wiki - http://wiki.matronics.com
The List Search Engine - http://www.matronics.com/search
This is because I have always enjoyed a List experience that was completely about
the sport we enjoy - airplanes - and not about advertising!
But running a high performance, highly available service like this isn't free and
a fair amount of money in terms of computer upgrades, business-class Internet
connectivity, and electricity. Consequently, many similar sites turn to advertising
to support these costs. Advertising that you have to look at each and
every time you read an email message or browse the their web site.
Rather than subject my List community to another constant commercial bombardment,
I have chosen to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year in November to support
the continued operation and upgrade of the List services. It's solely through
the Contributions of List members that the Lists and Forums continue to be
possible!
April 19, 2007 - November 04, 2007
TeamGrumman-Archive.digest.vol-am