Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-di
April 07, 2003 - May 09, 2003
-->
The ZAC site says that an XL can be built in about 400-600 hours. How
much time have you spent on your Zenith. Please indicate the model and
what options you have included. Thanks
---------------------------------
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Subaru Alternator Light ? |
Hey Don,
You need the light or the Alternator will fry itself...at least so I'm told.
The purpose of the light is to tell you the alt is working. If you did not
have one the first you might notice is low battery volts. A light is a much
better viaual indication, that's why you want an oil pressure light in
addition to the guage.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach [mailto:don(at)pcperfect.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru Alternator Light ?
Hey Guys,
Anyone with a Subaru engine on their Zodiac know what the purpose of the
alternator light that is included with Engine/FWF kit? If I understand the
chicken scratch that was included from Stratus, this light should be on
right before you start the engine and go off afterwards. If the light stays
on, does that mean the alternator is toast, wired up wrong, or ???
Unfortunately, the docs included from Stratus and from ZAC do not include
any details to purpose of the light - just a wiring diagram and the fact
that it should be off when the engine is started.
Thanks!!!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Zodie Rockets at SnF |
When we left Lakeland late Friday morning there were eight 601s in attendance.
Nick said that number was the highest he can remember. I know the Canadians
get a bunch together at their fly-ins but this was the largest number I had seen
in one place, topping OSH by at least three.
In row 4 of the Homebuilt Area were:
Jim and Bonnie Olson from FL. Their HDS/912 in "Wanna Bee Warbird" scheme is a
treat to see and make sure you take a long look at Jim's wonderful constructions
photos if you ever meet up with them.
Brent Battles from NC. I didn't get to see Brent and really wanted to share my
admiration for his fine a/c and the cross USA trip he took. If you haven't read
his recount of the journey you are in for a treat. HD/912.
George Fetzer from FL in a HDS/Stratus. George's a/c is a beautiful example of
the care and dedication that builders put into their work. His cowling is a
work of art and he must have hours and hours in it - neat, really neat green flake
paint.
John Carpenter from TX in a HDS-TD/Soob with the radiator inside. John said he
was able to mount it there because without the nosewheel the space was available.
So far the temps are in range. He was having a blast flying it and said
all the other things could wait a while! This is a sentiment shared by many
flying builders. I don't think John is on our list - most of the builders who
said they were working on Zodiacs were not on our list either.
Ken Lennox of MD in a HDS-TD with 0-200 power and GGP's canopy modification. I
keep kidding Ken that his canopy opens so slowly and majestically that he should
have a recording of Darth Vader's march playing when it does. Ken flew down
the coast, something Bill and I didn't quite have the nerve to do when we flight
planned.
Randy Hart of GA had the only XL/912 there. Piloted by Craig Heiss the a/c was
for sale.
Bill Morelli of VT. I have been seeing pictures of Bill's creation for years now,
and stealing all his good ideas for just as long. His HDS/Stratus drew crowds
of people all the time, but especially when he popped the hood. I flew wing
with Bill from PA down, and though wx held us back, flying with him as a flight
companion made the trip all the more enjoyable.
Sandy and I brought our HDS/3300 to her first fly-in; quite a bit bigger than what
we had anticipated as 22Tango's first show.
Seb said there were some 701s in attendance but that most like to be out in the
ultralight area. Due to time limitations I didn't get out there.
OSH anyone?
Regards Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto |
>
>I bought ZAC's engine mount for my CH801/Lycoming O-320. It fits the engine
> Is there a smaller Bendix os Slick
>magneto I can substitute. I am considering going to one of the electronic
>systems for the left mag.
Hey Jim,
I am using the Lightspeed CDI, but got the flywheel pickup option, so there
isn't even a pickup unit where one of the mags go. I can send pics of the
cover plate if you want. If you get his dual option, you would have
nothing where the mags normally go.
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flydog1966(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ch 701 pitot tube route |
hey all you 701 builders, it looks like I run a 1/4" inch line from the
pitot tube down the length of the wing via the 1/4" holes in the nose
ribs(4th ed. plans). But where is the best place to exit the wing and bring
it into the cabin? Route it thru the hole in the root nose rib? Is it o.k.
to drill a hole thru the spar root doubler and exit thru the root rear rib?
Phil Day
scratch-buildin' in Ma.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Band Saw and Blades |
Carlos,
I did the same thing as Eric, I bought the 9" Delta tabletop bandsaw and a
Delta
tabletop drill press for $99 each at woodworkers warehouse back in November.
The bandsaw came with a 6 TPI ( teeth per inch) blade which is good for wood
so I bought a delta 14 TPI blade at Sears. It worked OK for standard L angle
but on thicker stuff the blade flexed too much and the cut wandered off to
either side and you had to push and flex that blade alot. It finally broke. I
read in a Tony Bingilis book that 24 TPI is needed. Well you cannot find a 24
TPI stock blade at 59 1/2" for the delta. I found out about Suffolk Machinery
from a friend and I ordered 3 24TPI 1/2 " blades custom cut to 59 1/2
". They are also Timberwolf blades. 3 blades delivered to my house cost
$38.77 and took 6 days to arrive.
The blade cuts everything like butter. It is truly amazing what a difference
that blade makes, the thing works great.
Order blades: Suffolk Machinery 631-289-7153 Patchogue, NY
Blades from : Timber Wolf Band Saw Blades 1-800-234-7297 Brockway, PA
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/
From: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch(at)attbi.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools
I have been through a number of tools/bandsaws, and heres my summary.
I originally got one of the vertical/horizontal bandsaws for "more
power" (per newsgroup recommendations and dejanews ). These units
are not for doing vertical sawing and are good for cutting pipe/bar
stock and thats about it. Then I picked up a Ryobi 9" table top
bandsaw, and eventually took it back. Very plasticky and vibrations.
I finally got a Delta 9" benchtop bandsaw and love it. I did have
to get a set of blades mail order from suffolk machinery (timberwolf
blades). The US blades make a big difference. This saw is a
fantastic buy for 99.00 and cuts through aluminum like a hot knife
thru butter. I got a very fine blade for the AL cutting, and dress
the cut up on the 3M scotchbrite wheel on my grinder. I put the bandsaw
at maybe number 3 on my favorite "non-essential" tool list, just behind
the scotchbite pad wheel/grinder, and the 1"x42"belt sander. It also
comes in handy for cutting wood (different blade), and other cutting.
Eric Tauch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools
Hello, all
I'm ready to trim the 1.5" x 1.5" extrusions down to 1.5" x 1.25".
I was thinking of renting a band saw to do this, but the local rental store
doesn't
have any, and the closest one only has the industrial issue (7' tall), so
I'd have
to rent a truck.
Thus, my alternative is to acquire a band saw [pitty me.. ;o) ]
Keeping in ming the primary goal of trimming 6 pieces of extrusion 1/8"
thick, each
8' long, do builders have any recommendations to offer? "Gotchas" to avoid?
I'm looking at a Canadian Tire band saw. To take a look, go to
HTTP://www.canadiantire.ca
then enter 0556726P in the search box.
Thanks in advance for any input
Carlos
CH601 HD - tailfeathers done!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Sale - HDS Wing Locker Tanks |
We seem to have an extra set of fuel tanks, actually we purchased the kit
from another builder and decided to upgrade to leading edge tanks. The wing
tanks were never installed.
WING TANKS & FUEL SYSTEM KIT (PAIR)
Seven U.S. Gallons each, mounted inside the wing baggage locker to
supplement the main header tank. Kit includes electric pump and fuel lines
and connectors.
Get them from Zenith for $695 or we'll take $500 obo.
Jake
jake@lockhart-tx.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Subaru Alternator Light ? |
That is interesting about the light. Mine has behaved the same way for 280
hours. I have to kick it up to around 2000 rpm and then it goes off. However
mine seems to put out lots of juice. I had a bearing replaced, but
alternator seems good. How do you account for this.
When I had my alternator rebuilt they replaced the voltage regulator and
rectifier circuit. The one they installed didn't have this "feature" where
you had to kick the rpm's up to get it to work.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Zodie Rockets at SnF |
I was hoping to make it, but this weekend I couldn't make it down and back
VFR from GA. Maybe OSH, or next year.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw and Blades |
One thing with band saws. It is better to have the blade too tight than
loose. Loose breaks blades rather quickly.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <RURUNY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Band Saw and Blades
>
> Carlos,
> I did the same thing as Eric, I bought the 9" Delta tabletop bandsaw and a
> Delta
> tabletop drill press for $99 each at woodworkers warehouse back in
November.
> The bandsaw came with a 6 TPI ( teeth per inch) blade which is good for
wood
> so I bought a delta 14 TPI blade at Sears. It worked OK for standard L
angle
> but on thicker stuff the blade flexed too much and the cut wandered off to
> either side and you had to push and flex that blade alot. It finally
broke. I
> read in a Tony Bingilis book that 24 TPI is needed. Well you cannot find a
24
> TPI stock blade at 59 1/2" for the delta. I found out about Suffolk
Machinery
> from a friend and I ordered 3 24TPI 1/2 " blades custom cut to 59
1/2
> ". They are also Timberwolf blades. 3 blades delivered to my house cost
> $38.77 and took 6 days to arrive.
> The blade cuts everything like butter. It is truly amazing what a
difference
> that blade makes, the thing works great.
> Order blades: Suffolk Machinery 631-289-7153 Patchogue, NY
> Blades from : Timber Wolf Band Saw Blades 1-800-234-7297 Brockway, PA
>
> Brian Unruh
> Long Island, NY
> http://www.zenitha
ir.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/
>
>
> From: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch(at)attbi.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools
>
>
> I have been through a number of tools/bandsaws, and heres my summary.
>
> I originally got one of the vertical/horizontal bandsaws for "more
> power" (per newsgroup recommendations and dejanews ). These units
> are not for doing vertical sawing and are good for cutting pipe/bar
> stock and thats about it. Then I picked up a Ryobi 9" table top
> bandsaw, and eventually took it back. Very plasticky and vibrations.
> I finally got a Delta 9" benchtop bandsaw and love it. I did have
> to get a set of blades mail order from suffolk machinery (timberwolf
> blades). The US blades make a big difference. This saw is a
> fantastic buy for 99.00 and cuts through aluminum like a hot knife
> thru butter. I got a very fine blade for the AL cutting, and dress
> the cut up on the 3M scotchbrite wheel on my grinder. I put the bandsaw
> at maybe number 3 on my favorite "non-essential" tool list, just behind
> the scotchbite pad wheel/grinder, and the 1"x42"belt sander. It also
> comes in handy for cutting wood (different blade), and other cutting.
>
> Eric Tauch
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
> Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools
>
>
> Hello, all
>
>
> I'm ready to trim the 1.5" x 1.5" extrusions down to 1.5" x 1.25".
>
> I was thinking of renting a band saw to do this, but the local rental
store
> doesn't
> have any, and the closest one only has the industrial issue (7' tall), so
> I'd have
> to rent a truck.
> Thus, my alternative is to acquire a band saw [pitty me.. ;o) ]
> Keeping in ming the primary goal of trimming 6 pieces of extrusion 1/8"
> thick, each
> 8' long, do builders have any recommendations to offer? "Gotchas" to
avoid?
>
> I'm looking at a Canadian Tire band saw. To take a look, go to
> HTTP://www.canadiantire.ca
> then enter 0556726P in the search box.
>
> Thanks in advance for any input
>
> Carlos
> CH601 HD - tailfeathers done!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
Hi:
I have a question for those who have "been there". On
step 17 of the rear fuselage draft manual (601 HD)
it calls to drill the rear middle side skins to the
H.T. frames. Since I'm building from a kit, my rear
side skins come pre drilled. The problem is that the
pre drilled holes that go to the HT frames are not in
a 90 degree angle, they are like slanted to the rear
of the skin, so the only way to attach the HT frames
is to "lean" them towards the tail.
The plans call for the
HT frames to be at a 90 degree angle so I don't know
if this would be critical. How slanted are they? If a
draw a line at 90 degrees that goes from bottom to
top of the skin,
the most upper hole is off by 11mm.
Any advice is appreciated.
Thank you.
Ivan Rosales
Mexico City.
La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hodges, Mitch" <n601mh(at)BELLSOUTH.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Zodie Rockets at SnF |
Sadly, by the time I got there on Sunday there were only two left. In fact
the entire experimental area had maybe 30 planes in it. I was afraid this
would happen with the new time format, oh well, we'll know better next year.
I just couldn't make it on Saturday this year because we were at Disney
watching my son's middle school Jazz band perform.
The two that were on the flightline can be viewed on my website at
http://www.hodges.info. You can also see the world's slowest 601HDS
builders log there.
There's also a shot of a DC3 on floats (my favorite return visitor), the
Hummingbird helicopter, the "new" Wright Flyer, and a couple of action shots
from the airshow, where I was playing with my new digital camera. Not a lot
of pictures this year, because there just wasn't anything new.
Mitch Hodges
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Piano hinge retainment |
Would constructors mind enlightening me as to what methods they have used to
retain the piano hinge wire on their elevators and trim tabs etc.
Regards
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
610XL 5075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear fuselage |
Ivan,
The rear fuselage side frames are all 90-degrees as measured
from the top longeron, with exception to the pickup angles
that align with the front spar and the frame channels that align and
attach to the rear spar web. These have their own angle.
I hope this helps.
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Zenith-List: Rear fuselage
> Hi:
> I have a question for those who have "been there". On
> step 17 of the rear fuselage draft manual (601 HD)
> it calls to drill the rear middle side skins to the
> H.T. frames. Since I'm building from a kit, my rear
> side skins come pre drilled. The problem is that the
> pre drilled holes that go to the HT frames are not in
> a 90 degree angle, they are like slanted to the rear
> of the skin, so the only way to attach the HT frames
> is to "lean" them towards the tail.
> The plans call for the
> HT frames to be at a 90 degree angle so I don't know
> if this would be critical. How slanted are they? If a
> draw a line at 90 degrees that goes from bottom to
> top of the skin,
> the most upper hole is off by 11mm.
> Any advice is appreciated.
> Thank you.
> Ivan Rosales
> Mexico City.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piano hinge retainment |
Wayne:
Here's what my drawings say for the elevator/stabilizer hinge:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Pianohinge.jpg
I plan to do this to all hinges.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
601XL Ser. Num. 5074
Omaha, Nebraska
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinge retainment
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:03:07 +1000
Would constructors mind enlightening me as to what methods they have used to
retain the piano hinge wire on their elevators and trim tabs etc.
Regards
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
610XL 5075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piano hinge retainment |
Wayne:
I have used a 90 degree bend on one end of the hinge pin, securing the bent
end with an aluminum clip retained by a #6 screw and nut.
George Swinford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinge retainment
>
> Would constructors mind enlightening me as to what methods they have used
to
> retain the piano hinge wire on their elevators and trim tabs etc.
>
> Regards
>
> Wayne Glasser
> Sydney - Australia
> 610XL 5075
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Piano hinge retainment |
Drill a little hole in each end of the hinge, and put a little ss wire
though and twist the ends together.
Looks fairly neat and you just have to make sure they are there during your
preflight.
Frank
601HDS with piano hinged ailerons
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Glasser [mailto:ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au]
Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinge retainment
-->
Would constructors mind enlightening me as to what methods they have used to
retain the piano hinge wire on their elevators and trim tabs etc.
Regards
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
610XL 5075
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piano hinge retainment |
Wayne- I just cut the wire about 4 mm short, drilled a hole in the space
provided on both ends and put a wire in the holes and twisted it. Al Young
601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
Thanks for the information, you are right, I was
measuring from the bottom longeron. Problem solved.
I have one more question: Are the side skins flush
with the top rear longerons? When I place mine they
are about 5-6 mm above the top longeron. They look
fine in the bottom longeron but not in the top.
Hi:
> I have a question for those who have "been there".
On
> step 17 of the rear fuselage draft manual (601 HD)
> it calls to drill the rear middle side skins to the
> H.T. frames. Since I'm building from a kit, my rear
> side skins come pre drilled. The problem is that the
> pre drilled holes that go to the HT frames are not
in
> a 90 degree angle, they are like slanted to the rear
> of the skin, so the only way to attach the HT frames
> is to "lean" them towards the tail.
> The plans call for the
> HT frames to be at a 90 degree angle so I don't
know
> if this would be critical. How slanted are they? If
a
> draw a line at 90 degrees that goes from bottom to
> top of the skin,
> the most upper hole is off by 11mm.
> Any advice is appreciated.
> Thank you.
> Ivan Rosales
> Mexico City.
>
La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 04/07/03 |
| From: | Greg P Jannakos <gpjann(at)juno.com> |
Greg Jannakos
Zodiac CH601HDS
Plans building 75% completed
I'm about ready to start on FWF and need to select the engine.
I would appreciate any performance information on the following engines:
Rotax 912 80HP
Jabiru 2200
Corvair
Continental C75/85/90
Continental O200
Thanks
gpjann(at)juno.com
Atlanta, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear fuselage |
I started flush with the bottom and trimmed the top because the upper skins
cover the top.
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rear fuselage
>
> Thanks for the information, you are right, I was
> measuring from the bottom longeron. Problem solved.
> I have one more question: Are the side skins flush
> with the top rear longerons? When I place mine they
> are about 5-6 mm above the top longeron. They look
> fine in the bottom longeron but not in the top.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Danielson" <steved(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Source for push rod in elevator trim |
I am looking for a pushrod for the MAC elevator trim. ACS sells a kit for
$16.90 that has the 2 clevises, hardware, and a 7" pushrod, but I don't need
any of that other stuff, only the pushrod. Is it a standard item that I
could go to any hardware store and say: "give me a 7" inch threaded rod that
is XXX diameter" or is it a "special" aviation quality rod?
Thanks for any tips
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 04/07/03 |
Not sure about the smaller engines but with a (claimed) 100hp Stratus this
thing always brings a smile on takeoff and "Whoo-hoos" from the passenger.
I personally would not recommend the Stratus motor, even though it saddens
me to say it. Now Ramsoob is a different story. He seems to be getting some
reliable performance and is a whole different operation from Stratus.
Ramsoob made me a proper set of stepped valve guides that will never shake
out of the head and cause engine damage.
One day I will investigate one of his 130 hp motors...now that would really
climb!
FRank
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg P Jannakos [mailto:gpjann(at)juno.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 04/07/03
Greg Jannakos
Zodiac CH601HDS
Plans building 75% completed
I'm about ready to start on FWF and need to select the engine. I would
appreciate any performance information on the following engines:
Rotax 912 80HP
Jabiru 2200
Corvair
Continental C75/85/90
Continental O200
Thanks
gpjann(at)juno.com
Atlanta, Ga.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Source for push rod in elevator trim |
No it looks like a standard ss threaded rod. I would go to the hardware
store. The plane is quite flyable with the trim stuck all the way up or
down, but the worse thing that could happen is the rod would break and the
thing would flap around. Mildly irritating but certainly not a safety issue.
There is so little force on it anyway its never gonna break.
Frank
I am looking for a pushrod for the MAC elevator trim. ACS sells a kit for
$16.90 that has the 2 clevises, hardware, and a 7" pushrod, but I don't need
any of that other stuff, only the pushrod. Is it a standard item that I
could go to any hardware store and say: "give me a 7" inch threaded rod that
is XXX diameter" or is it a "special" aviation quality rod?
Thanks for any tips
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wing fairing |
Hello group,
I am making the 6E1-1 part (fuselage - wing fairing)
for the 601-HD(S) and I am wondering if I should cut
it as per the dimensions in the plans or if I have to
make a carton dummy and test it on the plane until I
find the true dimensions.
Any advise?
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wing fairing |
Mike,
I made posterboard patterns of the shape from the plans and then test fit to
see how close they were. In my case the Zenith sizes were larger than my
finished dimensions but the angles were also slightly different. I suggest
that you make the cutout patterns and test fit before you cut your aluminum
part. I also reinforced this area using "L" material and placed a piece of
.025 under the skin as well as a reinforcement to the trailing edge (also
an "L" but bent to conform to the trailing edge shape). I'm not sure if I
have pictures on my web site but Jeff Small and others have done similar.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuselage wing fairing
>
> Hello group,
>
> I am making the 6E1-1 part (fuselage - wing fairing)
> for the 601-HD(S) and I am wondering if I should cut
> it as per the dimensions in the plans or if I have to
> make a carton dummy and test it on the plane until I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wing fairing |
Definatly make a cardboard pattern first...its a complex piece and you can
make ans many cardboard patterns as you want with no metal scrap!
I remember my final fairing had little resemblance to the drawing dimensions
You must be getting close...I remember the excitement of this phase of the
work!
Frank
HDS 300 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuselage wing fairing
Hello group,
I am making the 6E1-1 part (fuselage - wing fairing)
for the 601-HD(S) and I am wondering if I should cut
it as per the dimensions in the plans or if I have to
make a carton dummy and test it on the plane until I
find the true dimensions.
Any advise?
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear fuselage |
Ivan,
The side skins probably will be just a smidge
above the angles. Don't distress over it because
the top skins overlap the side skins and the overlap
is not a major concern if you keep the frames at correct
dimensions.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rear fuselage
>
> Thanks for the information, you are right, I was
> measuring from the bottom longeron. Problem solved.
> I have one more question: Are the side skins flush
> with the top rear longerons? When I place mine they
> are about 5-6 mm above the top longeron. They look
> fine in the bottom longeron but not in the top.
>
>
> measured
> from the top longeron, with exception to the pickup
> angles
> that align with the front spar and the frame channels
> that align and
> attach to the rear spar web. These have their own
> angle.
> I hope this helps.
> Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Subject: Rear fuselage
>
>
> > Hi:
> > I have a question for those who have "been there".
> On
> > step 17 of the rear fuselage draft manual (601 HD)
> > it calls to drill the rear middle side skins to the
> > H.T. frames. Since I'm building from a kit, my rear
> > side skins come pre drilled. The problem is that the
> > pre drilled holes that go to the HT frames are not
> in
> > a 90 degree angle, they are like slanted to the rear
> > of the skin, so the only way to attach the HT frames
> > is to "lean" them towards the tail.
> > The plans call for the
> > HT frames to be at a 90 degree angle so I don't
> know
> > if this would be critical. How slanted are they? If
> a
> > draw a line at 90 degrees that goes from bottom to
> > top of the skin,
> > the most upper hole is off by 11mm.
> > Any advice is appreciated.
> > Thank you.
> > Ivan Rosales
> > Mexico City.
> >
>
>
> La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes.
http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wing fairing |
Thanks! I will use a 0.025" skin for this part and I
intend to install L stiffeners the same way as Fred
Hulen did
(http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/Fairings%20by%20Fred/Fairings.htm)
Thanks for the advise.
Michel
--- Dave Alberti wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> I made posterboard patterns of the shape from the
> plans and then test fit to
> see how close they were. In my case the Zenith
> sizes were larger than my
> finished dimensions but the angles were also
> slightly different.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | AeroFlash vs Whelen strobes |
Just wondering if anyone can shed any light (no pun intended) on the pros
and cons of using either AeroFlash or Whelen strobes.
Thanks
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
601XL 5075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | AeroFlash vs Whelen strobes |
The big fat capacitor in the Aeroflash units fail regularly. Both of mine
are their third capacitors. This is a big headache at first 'cos you have to
send your power unit back to the factory where they happily charge you $50
to repair the thing...that gets expensive.
Fortunatly when I pressed them they told me that the capacitors tend to leak
if not used regularly (mine failed anyway even when they were used almost
every day). So I drilled ou the rivets, found the big fat capacitor (50
micro farads at 400 volts I think) and got one from a local electronics
store for ten bucks.
20 minutes later....voila!...works great...till about a year later.
I now just replace the capacitor.
Frank
601 HDS 300 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Glasser [mailto:ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au]
Subject: Zenith-List: AeroFlash vs Whelen strobes
-->
Just wondering if anyone can shed any light (no pun intended) on the pros
and cons of using either AeroFlash or Whelen strobes.
Thanks
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
601XL 5075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Stout" <r5t0ut(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wing fairing |
I just re-made mine using Fred's method and really think this is the way to
go. It does add a little weight, but I'm not so worried about someone
stepping on them anymore. Although I wouldn't recommend walking on them, I
did test the strength by standing on them and they held my 180 lb. butt.
I guess I should tell you why I had to re-make mine... Awhile back there
was a thread about this and one of the suggestions was to squirt foam into
the cavity. Composite builders make sandwiches of fiberglass and foam, which
makes a very strong structure. The general idea made sense, so why not give
it a try? The first problem was trying to get the foam distributed into the
cavity. I drilled 2, 3/8" holes to insert the tube into, and tried to poke
the tube in as far as I could in different directions. It still felt as if
there were pockets without foam. The second problem was with curing. After a
more than a month the foam never completely cured. Every day I would clean
out the holes in the bottom to relieve the pressure. One warm day the skins
began to buckle slightly. That's when I gave up and removed them. One other
fear was with the foam collecting water. Since the foam was closed cell
foam, I didn't think this would be a problem. Unfortunately I couldn't get
all the cavity filled so there were pockets where water could have
accumulated.
Randy Stout
CH 601 HD
r5t0ut(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage wing fairing
>
> Thanks! I will use a 0.025" skin for this part and I
> intend to install L stiffeners the same way as Fred
> Hulen did
> (http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/Fairings%20by%20Fred/Fairings.htm)
>
> Thanks for the advise.
>
> Michel
>
> --- Dave Alberti wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> > I made posterboard patterns of the shape from the
> > plans and then test fit to
> > see how close they were. In my case the Zenith
> > sizes were larger than my
> > finished dimensions but the angles were also
> > slightly different.
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> http://tax.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroFlash vs Whelen strobes |
Frank
Thanks for your comments.
I find it hard to believe that they capacitors fail due to lack of use as
they say, it is more likely that they have not used the correct type of cap.
There is a particular type of cap made by a few companies designated 'photo
flash' or 'strobe'. These capacitors are designed to handle the massive
current surge when the flash tube discharges. If you do not use the correct
type of cap you will forever be replacing them.
Regards
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
601XL 5075
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: AeroFlash vs Whelen strobes
>
> The big fat capacitor in the Aeroflash units fail regularly. Both of mine
> are their third capacitors. This is a big headache at first 'cos you have
to
> send your power unit back to the factory where they happily charge you $50
> to repair the thing...that gets expensive.
>
> Fortunatly when I pressed them they told me that the capacitors tend to
leak
> if not used regularly (mine failed anyway even when they were used almost
> every day). So I drilled ou the rivets, found the big fat capacitor (50
> micro farads at 400 volts I think) and got one from a local electronics
> store for ten bucks.
>
> 20 minutes later....voila!...works great...till about a year later.
>
> I now just replace the capacitor.
>
> Frank
> 601 HDS 300 hours
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Glasser [mailto:ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au]
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: AeroFlash vs Whelen strobes
>
>
> -->
>
> Just wondering if anyone can shed any light (no pun intended) on the pros
> and cons of using either AeroFlash or Whelen strobes.
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne Glasser
> Sydney - Australia
> 601XL 5075
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wing fairing |
Yes, the radiator cap is higher than the radiator (but
not by a lot).
Three of my friends have Subaru engines with in-cowl
radiators. They're all happy with their temperatures
although two of them had some difficulty initially
because the intake holes in their cowling were two
small.
The pressure may be higher than what you mention. The
reason is that the cowling must be made so it is a
"pressure cowling". That means that it is sealed all
around (see the problem for the bottom part?) so that
air is forced through the radiator before exiting
underneath the plane. My mentor also told me that the
shape of the cowling at the exit is important so a
turbulence is created, acting like a venturi (or
vacuum?) for the radiator air.
I feel that it is a proven approach now and I don't
think I'm venturing too much in new areas. I expect
it to work as well as it does for my buddies.
Michel
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
wrote:
> (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
>
> Very interesting Michel...
>...
> Did you design this or is it a "try it and see what
> happens" design?
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | LE fuel tanks...spray foam |
Interesting....
Actually I did eventually use foam to stop my LE fuel tanks moving around
(sqirt between wing spar and fuel tank and between tank and inner nose rib.
Worked very well, good job because it was a pain to get the tank caps to
ligh up every time I re-fuelled otherwise..
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "royt.or" <royt.or(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | CH601 POH available in word format? |
Is there a CH601 POH available in word format which is easy to edit for a
specific plane?
I have a copy of GGP's from 1996 as a .htm file, and I have a .pdf from
Zenair, but it would sure be nice to have a .doc formatted POH. (Yes, word
imports the .htm files easily, and I will probably edit George's if I don't
find anything else.) I did not find anything else searching the archives.
Thanks,
Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wing fairing |
Good...and let us know how it works out, particularly what max and cruise
speeds you end up with as measured on your GPS.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuselage wing fairing
Yes, the radiator cap is higher than the radiator (but
not by a lot).
Three of my friends have Subaru engines with in-cowl
radiators. They're all happy with their temperatures
although two of them had some difficulty initially
because the intake holes in their cowling were two
small.
The pressure may be higher than what you mention. The
reason is that the cowling must be made so it is a
"pressure cowling". That means that it is sealed all
around (see the problem for the bottom part?) so that
air is forced through the radiator before exiting
underneath the plane. My mentor also told me that the
shape of the cowling at the exit is important so a
turbulence is created, acting like a venturi (or
vacuum?) for the radiator air.
I feel that it is a proven approach now and I don't
think I'm venturing too much in new areas. I expect
it to work as well as it does for my buddies.
Michel
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
wrote:
> (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
>
> Very interesting Michel...
>...
> Did you design this or is it a "try it and see what
> happens" design?
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | High EGT's on Jab 3300 |
List:
Jerry said "Speaking of egts, my new 3300's egts rip right on past the 1380
limit on
takeoff on my pusher Titan. Is this because of the "throttle valve
turbulence" Kurt speaks of below or something else. At lower cruise RPMs
they are just fine. Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions are more than
welcome."
We had the same problem on our Number 6 cylinder anytime we were close to
WOT. At the same time we were getting the excessive number 6 readings all
other cylinders were normal. After many conversations with Pete about
possible solutions we did what we should have done at first; namely, swap the
number 6 EGT probe with the number 4 probe. Now the problem is on the
number 4 cylinder so we have a bad probe.
We plan to replace the original number 6 probe the first time we have to work
on something else behind the instrument panel. In the interim we will crank
up the limit on EGT temps to 1450 or above until we no longer get the red
light on our EIS system. We will also record the EGT's/CHT's/oil press/oil
temp in a log for each flight to insure that we are fully aware of the engine
health at all times. By the way the temp/press log is the same as airlines
record on each flight in order to extend the time between engine overhauls.
If you wish any other info Jerry don't hesitate to contact me.
Stan
601 HDS/Jab 3300/96 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wing fairing |
We always do a thick paper dummy of all the irregular parts, most of
them fit, but there is always a little trimming to do, this way we save
trashing aluminum.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
GDL, Mexico
--- Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> Hello group,
>
> I am making the 6E1-1 part (fuselage - wing fairing)
> for the 601-HD(S) and I am wondering if I should cut
> it as per the dimensions in the plans or if I have to
> make a carton dummy and test it on the plane until I
> find the true dimensions.
>
> Any advise?
>
> Michel
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> http://tax.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wing fairing |
Hi folks,
DON'T do the foam method on the fairings. Not a good idea. I did that, using
a small vinyl hose to insert the foam into the fairing. In order to prevent
the fairing from warping I enclosed them in plywood. The plywood stayed on
there for 48 hours; initally everything looked allright. However, a few
days later it got hot, the foam expanded and the fairings looked like beaten
up with a hammer.
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Stout" <r5t0ut(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage wing fairing
>
> I just re-made mine using Fred's method and really think this is the way
to
> go. It does add a little weight, but I'm not so worried about someone
> stepping on them anymore. Although I wouldn't recommend walking on them, I
> did test the strength by standing on them and they held my 180 lb. butt.
>
> I guess I should tell you why I had to re-make mine... Awhile back there
> was a thread about this and one of the suggestions was to squirt foam into
> the cavity. Composite builders make sandwiches of fiberglass and foam,
which
> makes a very strong structure. The general idea made sense, so why not
give
> it a try? The first problem was trying to get the foam distributed into
the
> cavity. I drilled 2, 3/8" holes to insert the tube into, and tried to poke
> the tube in as far as I could in different directions. It still felt as if
> there were pockets without foam. The second problem was with curing. After
a
> more than a month the foam never completely cured. Every day I would clean
> out the holes in the bottom to relieve the pressure. One warm day the
skins
> began to buckle slightly. That's when I gave up and removed them. One
other
> fear was with the foam collecting water. Since the foam was closed cell
> foam, I didn't think this would be a problem. Unfortunately I couldn't get
> all the cavity filled so there were pockets where water could have
> accumulated.
>
> Randy Stout
> CH 601 HD
> r5t0ut(at)earthlink.net
> http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage wing fairing
>
>
> >
> > Thanks! I will use a 0.025" skin for this part and I
> > intend to install L stiffeners the same way as Fred
> > Hulen did
> >
(http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/Fairings%20by%20Fred/Fairings.htm)
> >
> > Thanks for the advise.
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > --- Dave Alberti wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > I made posterboard patterns of the shape from the
> > > plans and then test fit to
> > > see how close they were. In my case the Zenith
> > > sizes were larger than my
> > > finished dimensions but the angles were also
> > > slightly different.
> >
> > =====
> > ----------------------------
> > Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
> >
> > http://tax.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Got a good source of 4130N? |
Hi List. If any of you scratch builders out there
have found a good source of 4130N (preferably in
Canada since shipping over the border is expensive) I
would love to hear about it. I am looking to buy
enough for 3 - 601 XLs for the small builders group I
am a part of. Thanks for any information you can send
my way. Have a great day!
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab and Rudder waiting for skins
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | XL Top side of skin for rear stabilizer... |
OK.. I'm a little confused. So I don't get more confused I'm quoting the
assembly manual page T-47. Before I do though here is my question.
If in 25 you put the boards in to strap down the skin how do you then
mark the rivet lines as directed in 26.
25. Use straps to hold the Top side of the Skin on the Skeleton.
HANDLING: To push the Skin down on the skeleton, take hold of an 8 foot
2x4
along the sides, hold it up against the Skin and gently lower the Skin
down. Partially
tighten the straps. Add another 1x2 just in front of the Front Spar for
added support. 6
straps is more than adequate!
LEVEL: Block the front of the End Ribs to eliminate twist. Use a level
to check both
ends.
26. Mark the rivet lines for the front and rear Spar. Use the rib
positioning Template to layout
the position of the Ribs.
RIVETS +PITCH:
a) A4 pitch 40 through the Front Spar.
b) A4 pitch 60 through the Ribs.
c) Drill #40 Pilot holes.
27. Clamp the 6 ft (1830mm) Piano Hinge between the Skin and the Rear
Spar, centered on
aircraft center line.
RIVETS + PITCH: A4 through the Rear Spar and Piano Hinge. (Locate the
end holes at
10mm from the end of the Hinge).
DRILL: #30
RIVET: A4
END QUOTE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Angle of Attack indicators |
Does anyone in the group have experience with Angle of Attack indicators
they can share.
Regards
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
601XL 5075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Wayne,
I have one on my HDS that works perfectly. I'll contact you directly and
give you the details.
Regards,
Bill
>Does anyone in the group have experience with Angle of Attack indicators
>they can share.
>
>Regards
>
>Wayne Glasser
>Sydney - Australia
>601XL 5075
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Bill
Much appreciated.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Morelli" <billvt(at)together.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Angle of Attack indicators
>
> Wayne,
>
> I have one on my HDS that works perfectly. I'll contact you directly and
> give you the details.
>
> Regards,
> Bill
>
> >Does anyone in the group have experience with Angle of Attack indicators
> >they can share.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Wayne Glasser
> >Sydney - Australia
> >601XL 5075
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnston" <johnston(at)rrt.net> |
| Subject: | Woe and Intrigue (angle of attack indicator) |
Interested in angle of attack indicator? Check out this link.
Steve Johnston
http://www.supercub.org/woe/woe0402.php
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Woe and Intrigue (angle of attack indicator) |
Steven
I had come across this site before.
Many thanks
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Johnston" <johnston(at)rrt.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Woe and Intrigue (angle of attack indicator)
>
> Interested in angle of attack indicator? Check out this link.
>
> Steve Johnston
>
> http://www.supercub.org/woe/woe0402.php
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | thomas hobbes <doublecheckvalve(at)yahoo.com> |
anyone in the southeast building a 640?
what thoughts would people have comparing a 640
to an 801?
first time builder...
Tim
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif(at)duck.org> |
Building is such a subjective word. :)
I bought the plans and have been reviewing them. I'm still in the
process of making a shopping list for the rudder. I will probably be
making some rib jigs this weekend.
BTW, I live in North Carolina.
Clif
640-0039
http://homebuilt.duck.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas
hobbes
Subject: Zenith-List: 640
-->
anyone in the southeast building a 640?
what thoughts would people have comparing a 640
to an 801?
first time builder...
Tim
http://tax.yahoo.com
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif(at)duck.org> |
| Subject: | Bending Brake vs. Press Brake |
Just wondering...
Is one better to use over the other? Or are they pretty much used for
different types of bends completely?
It seems to me that a press brake would produce a more accurate long
bend.
Clif
640-0039
http://homebuilt.duck.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XL Top side of skin for rear stabilizer... |
In a message dated 4/11/2003 12:35:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wr.giacona@cox-internet.com writes:
> If in 25 you put the boards in to strap down the skin how do you then
> mark the rivet lines as directed in 26.
You will find a lot of confusing instructions as you move through the XL
manuel. First mark a center line on all of the ribs and spars flanges. I
laid out the rivet lines with the skin flat on the bench as shown in T-44,
predrilled the entire side with #40, then you can look through the holes and
line up with the center lines. Make sure to measure and re measure all the
distances on your skeleton before you drill. It worked for me.
Jack Russell Clovis-CA
Xl #5000 installing main spar in fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net> |
I have posted some information and photos of our trip to Sun N Fun on my
web site (address below). Carol and I flew to Carlisle, PA and met up with
Jeff and Sandy Small. The two HDS's handled the trip well.
My HDS was loaded to gross weight (1300 lbs). The Stratus handled the trip
in stride. It now has 230 hours on it. Valve guides have never moved,
alternator has never failed and I have no cooling problems. I also have
both original Stratus ignitions and they too have been flawless. Also note
that my Whelan strobes have never failed and I have used them on every
flight for 230 hours. The cheap ZAC supplied tires now have 329 landings
and still have life remaining.
If anyone has any questions, let me know.
Regards,
Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus - Vermont - 230.6 flight hrs. - 329
landings, 1 ON ICE!!)
web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou(at)hunton.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Got a good source of 4130N? |
Goodness gracious! That's a "small" builders group?
You're building a 601 squadron!! :)
Your group definitely needs a web page. I'd be happy to host photos of your
progress if you aren't already web-able.
Good luck!
Doug Garrou
Project 801 www.garrou.com
From: David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Got a good source of 4130N?
Hi List. If any of you scratch builders out there
have found a good source of 4130N (preferably in
Canada since shipping over the border is expensive) I
would love to hear about it. I am looking to buy
enough for 3 - 601 XLs for the small builders group I
am a part of. Thanks for any information you can send
my way. Have a great day!
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab and Rudder waiting for skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou(at)hunton.com> |
The 801 and the 640 are an interesting contrast. The 801 gives you load,
roominess, and fairly incredible short field performance, all at the expense
of fashion and speed. The 640 is quite a bit cooler looking, and faster,
and also is roomy, but is a much more "conventional" design with more
conventional takeoff/landing performance. It would probably be easier to
get first time passengers into a 640. :) Comparing them to certificated
designs might help:
If you would buy a Maule, Helio Courier, or STOL-kitted 172 - 801.
If you would buy a Warrior or Cherokee 180 - 640.
We went with the 801. The 640 didn't exist at the time, but I think we still
would have gone with the 801. We like flying low and slow, our cross
country destinations aren't far away, and we want to squeeze into some of
those Blue Ridge grass strips. And I confess that I just LOVE the way the
801 looks.
Good luck!
Doug Garrou
Project 801 www.garrou.com
Richmond, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: thomas hobbes <doublecheckvalve(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 640
anyone in the southeast building a 640?
what thoughts would people have comparing a 640
to an 801?
first time builder...
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Wayne:
I have over 3,000 hours in military fighters and in high-performance fighters
they are essential, especially for short-field and carrier landings.
Having said that I can reluctantly report that I made 5 carrier landings in a
SNJ without an airspeed indicator. The SNJ had about a 4(?) knot "buzz"
just above stall which was highly reliable. Flying just above the buzz
allowed very precise speed control and kept the LSO happy. Our 601 HDS has
a "buzz" that starts at 60 mph and it stalls at 54 mph. The Buzz/vibration
is so pronounced that one could not miss an impending stall. Since we have
a forward CG, but within limits, an AOA was not considered necessary when
building and so far that has been a good decision.
It may be that nearly 50 years of flying has dimmed my memory of the level of
expertise of a fledgling aviator. There is one brief moment on each landing
that I would like to have the "high chevron, donut and low chevron" in my
windscreen for an assist. That moment is the last 50 feet before touchdown
when, because of the nose high attitude, you have to judge your altitude out
both sides of the aircraft for the touchdown alert. During that time a
positive sign of a steady IAS would be nice to have.
Stan
601HDS/Jabiru 3300
96 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator from Stratus - EA81 |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
For those of your using the alternator supplied from Stratus for your
Subaru EA81 it appears that the wiring diagram may be wrong or at least
not work in all cases.
I recently had a problem where my 'idiot light' wouldn't go out after
starting the engine. After getting some help/suggestions from Mykal at
Stratus I moved the Exciter wire (labeled as IG in the circuit diagram)
from the + side of starter switch circuit to the + side of the Ignition
circuit. The wiring diagram I was sent shows the Exciter/IG wire being
tied directly to the + side of the starter switch circuit which
according to Mykal may not provide power long enough to 'excite' the
alternator.
Also, here's his direct reply that may help as well:
>>>
The big wire at the top goes to the battery.in the plug hole (and) the
three pins the single one is not used.
If you look at the two side by side the one marked L on the left is the
neg wire for the led lite.the one on the
right is the ign. for ignition or 12 volts with the key on. if that wire
comes from the solynoid starter wire a
problem occures if the eng. starts right up the alternater does not
have voltage long enough to excite and
start charging. so it needs to come from a costant 12v source.
>>>
Regards,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | daddybob <daddybob52954(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Bending Brake vs. Press Brake |
> Bardwell"
> Bending Brake vs. Press Brake
> Just wondering...
>
> Is one better to use over the other? Or are they
> pretty much used for
> different types of bends completely?
>
> It seems to me that a press brake would produce a
> more accurate long
> bend.
Accuracy has more to do with the quality of the
machinery and how it is set up than having to do with
either type of brake.
They are used for different purposes, but their uses
overlap. Some bends or combination of bends are fairly
exclusive to one or the other.
Press brakes have dies- one male, usually on top and
pressing down, the other female, usually on bottom and
receiving the metal in a groove. The edges of the
groove often leave scratches in the metal. You may
need to cushion those edges with tape. I've seen
rubber dies but they are quite expensive.
You can make a small press brake for small pieces with
any small hydraulic press.
Bending brakes remain the most common and generally
least expensive in light sheetmetal work, except for
the big power brakes. Some of the power brakes are
capable of making radius curves by shooting out the
metal in 1/32" increments and bending it in very small
angles per bend. I've made round aluminum column
covers this way. I've often wondered how it would do
for the leading edge of an airfoil. Chances are one of
these machines is within driving distance for you. My
brother has one near Charlotte.
When bending aluminum in a bending brake, it is
important to maintain a "T2" radius (thickness X 2 R) to prevent cracking of the
aluminum on the outside
of the bend. this is done by moving the "Beam" or
"nose" back from the "apron" or "leaf" by a distance
of at least twice the aluminum thickness. You do not
want to depend on the average sheetmetal worker to
even know what you're talking about, let alone do it.
You need to watch to make sure it's done that way if
you hire this out.
Daddybob
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weston & Judy Walker" <westonjudy(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 601XL/3300 Firewall Forward Kit |
I am about to purchase a Jabiru 3300 and a firewall forward kit for my
601XL. I just discovered the firewall forward kit that ZAC sells is
different from the one Pete sells at Jabiru USA Flight Center.
According to Pete, here are the main differences:
1. Prop. ZAC uses Sensenich. Pete supplies GT and claims better speed
and climb, better fuel efficiency with GT.
2. Location of oil cooler. ZAC on the side. Jabiru lower center in
front of vent; claims better cooling.
3. Cowls. ZAC made by Skyshop, fit on inside of front skins; Jabiru
from Jabiru in Australia, fit on outside of front skins.
4. Carb heat. ZAC=92s filter is bypassed when carb heat supplied; Jabiru
filters air either way.
Does anyone have any good/bad experience with either of these Firewall
Forward kits? Any other pointers?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Weston Walker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Kerr" <jkerr(at)pcweb.net> |
Greetings-
Here's my first question to the list after lurking for a year. I just received
my 601XL plans and am evaluating scratch building vs kit purchase vs a combination
of the two.
Perhaps a newbie question, but I can not find the answer in the archives and it
did not come to me after studying the plans for a couple days. On vertical tail
spar 6T4-4, the plans say the bottom side is bent 5.5 degrees open, but the
double angle 6T5-5 which fits inside the spar looks bent in the direction I
would call 'closed' by 5.5 degrees (resulting in the 84.5 degree bend indicated).
I hate to start thinking the plans are wrong when I am so new at this, so
I thought I'd ask. Should the plans say 5.5 degrees closed for the spar bend
rather than open? It seems the doubler would then fit inside.
Part two of the question. The plans call for the bend at the top of 6T4-4 to be
3.5 degrees closed. If this is the case, does this mean the bend angle of the
side would gradually open two degrees starting at the point where the spar
doubler ends (approx 900 mm from the bottom of the spar). Of course, if the plans
said the top angle should be 5.5 degrees closed rather than 3.5, and the
5.5 degree open bend at the bottom should really be 5.5 degree closed, then it
would be a consistent bend angle from top to bottom. So, either the plans are
wrong in two places in the first place I looked at closely, or I'm really missing
something basic and definitely need the kit with preformed parts. Thanks
for any help.
Joseph Kerr
Reno, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Stan
Thanks for your input.
When my a/c is complete I can see it being used to introduce prospective
pilots to the joys of flight and therefore want to make it as painless as
possible.
Unfortunately 'sensory overload' prevents low time pilots from 'feeling'
what their a/c is trying to tell them so what to an experienced pilot may be
major feedback becomes just part of the background noise for a novice.
Another area where I see the AOA indicator being useful is for steep turns.
When I learnt to fly I remember trying to do the sums in my head - we are
at a 60deg bank so the stall speed increases by ........ In time it becomes
just another part of the experienced pilots 'feel' but initially it is
another thing to put someone off.
I have seen sensory overload, where the brain receives too much information
for it to process, cause panic in junior pilots that gave them such the
biggest scare in their lives they gave up for good.
As a side note I was just wondering how your 3300 is performing, it is the
engine of my choice when I get that far.
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
601XL 5075
----- Original Message -----
From: <Schallgren(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Angle of Attack indicators
>
> Wayne:
>
> I have over 3,000 hours in military fighters and in high-performance
fighters
> they are essential, especially for short-field and carrier landings.
>
> Having said that I can reluctantly report that I made 5 carrier landings
in a
> SNJ without an airspeed indicator. The SNJ had about a 4(?) knot "buzz"
> just above stall which was highly reliable. Flying just above the buzz
> allowed very precise speed control and kept the LSO happy. Our 601 HDS
has
> a "buzz" that starts at 60 mph and it stalls at 54 mph. The
Buzz/vibration
> is so pronounced that one could not miss an impending stall. Since we
have
> a forward CG, but within limits, an AOA was not considered necessary when
> building and so far that has been a good decision.
>
> It may be that nearly 50 years of flying has dimmed my memory of the level
of
> expertise of a fledgling aviator. There is one brief moment on each
landing
> that I would like to have the "high chevron, donut and low chevron" in my
> windscreen for an assist. That moment is the last 50 feet before
touchdown
> when, because of the nose high attitude, you have to judge your altitude
out
> both sides of the aircraft for the touchdown alert. During that time a
> positive sign of a steady IAS would be nice to have.
>
> Stan
> 601HDS/Jabiru 3300
> 96 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm building the HD which has the same specifications
as you mentioned except that my plans do not qualify
"open" or "closed". It just states the angles. Top
is 3.25 degrees bend inward (closed I suppose) and
bottom is 5 degrees.
A "good" bending brake will bend a constant angle
throughout the lenght. I have a not so good one (not
strong enough) that can probably achieve this bend
with no sweat (it the straight ones that create a
problem!! :-)
When I made that part, I remember spending time
readjusting the bend angle manually from top to bottom
of the spar.
The rudder is the first piece we assemble, but it is
not the simplest one when you think of it (at least
for a HD builder). Its ribs are more difficult to
make than all the wing ribs. The spar necessitate
also more work (relatively speaking as the main spar
is a LOT of work!-- let's compare it to the rear Z of
the wings or the stabilizer spars).
So, if you can make the rudder from scratch, you know
you can go quite far into the project from these
skills.
Michel
--- Joe Kerr wrote:
>
>
> Greetings-
> Here's my first question to the list after lurking
> for a year. I just received my 601XL plans and am
> evaluating scratch building vs kit purchase vs a
> combination of the two.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron DeWees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL/3300 Firewall Forward Kit |
Hi Weston,
I have the early Jabiru FWF kit for the Jab 3300 and can say that the
fiberglass work is excellent. As far as I know most cowls are on the
outside of the skins and work well that way. I understand they are easier
to install and remove. Don't know how the rest of the components compare
tho. Seems like Jab should know what works best with their motors. How do
the prices compare?
Ron DeWees
601HDS Jab 3300 in progress
Atlanta, Ga
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weston & Judy Walker" <westonjudy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL/3300 Firewall Forward Kit
>
> I am about to purchase a Jabiru 3300 and a firewall forward kit for my
> 601XL. I just discovered the firewall forward kit that ZAC sells is
> different from the one Pete sells at Jabiru USA Flight Center.
> According to Pete, here are the main differences:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Hillebrand <masterbogun(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Got a good source of 4130N? |
Hello from St.Jacob Ill USAI have been doing business with a company for about
15 years. The name is Shipiro Metals they are in St.Louis. If you ask for Stanley
and tell him you are a friend of Bo Hillebrand from the Zoo he might just
give you a good price on that amount of material.Phone number is 314-362-7000Don't
forget to ask for Stan he is the owner. Don't waste your time with anyone
else cause they don't have the authority to cut prices..........Good luck and
keep in touch
Barth
Hi List. If any of you scratch builders out there
have found a good source of 4130N (preferably in
Canada since shipping over the border is expensive) I
would love to hear about it. I am looking to buy
enough for 3 - 601 XLs for the small builders group I
am a part of. Thanks for any information you can send
my way. Have a great day!
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab and Rudder waiting for skins
http://tax.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
Joseph, as Michel has already explained, those angles are "closed", i.e., <90
degrees when measured inside.
As for the 3.5 vs 5.5 degrees: I didn't spend much time on it. For one thing, I
can't get 0.5 degree precision.
Remember, it's not a fighter jet.
Regards
Carlos
> On vertical tail
> spar 6T4-4, the plans say the bottom side is bent 5.5 degrees open, but the double
> angle 6T5-5 which fits inside the spar looks bent in the direction I would call
> 'closed' by 5.5 degrees (resulting in the 84.5 degree bend indicated).
...
> Part two of the question. The plans call for the bend at the top of 6T4-4 to
be
> 3.5 degrees closed.
> Joseph Kerr
> Reno, NV
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
Joseph:
I am plans-building the 601XL and I feel your pain. I have found many
builder's web sites with photos tend to clear up my questions about parts
making and assembly. Also, the Zenith web site (www.zenithair.com) has a
builder's site that has the new, updated manuals in color that can clear up
some of your questions on which way to bend a part. Zenith doesn't say much
about the builder's site when they send you the plans but if you call them
they will give you the password.
I can send you several links I have found if you email me off-line. Also, I
have built several parts for the tail section and you can see them on my web
site: www.cooknwithgas.com.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
601XL Ser. Num 5074
Omaha, NE
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Joe Kerr" <jkerr(at)pcweb.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:58:59 -0700
Greetings-
Here's my first question to the list after lurking for a year. I just
received my 601XL plans and am evaluating scratch building vs kit purchase
vs a combination of the two.
Perhaps a newbie question, but I can not find the answer in the archives and
it did not come to me after studying the plans for a couple days. On
vertical tail spar 6T4-4, the plans say the bottom side is bent 5.5 degrees
open, but the double angle 6T5-5 which fits inside the spar looks bent in
the direction I would call 'closed' by 5.5 degrees (resulting in the 84.5
degree bend indicated). I hate to start thinking the plans are wrong when I
am so new at this, so I thought I'd ask. Should the plans say 5.5 degrees
closed for the spar bend rather than open? It seems the doubler would then
fit inside.
Part two of the question. The plans call for the bend at the top of 6T4-4
to be 3.5 degrees closed. If this is the case, does this mean the bend
angle of the side would gradually open two degrees starting at the point
where the spar doubler ends (approx 900 mm from the bottom of the spar). Of
course, if the plans said the top angle should be 5.5 degrees closed rather
than 3.5, and the 5.5 degree open bend at the bottom should really be 5.5
degree closed, then it would be a consistent bend angle from top to bottom.
So, either the plans are wrong in two places in the first place I looked at
closely, or I'm really missing something basic and definitely need the kit
with preformed parts. Thanks for any help.
Joseph Kerr
Reno, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Maziarz" <n2va(at)arrl.net> |
The information in the email sent by Weston is very
useful. The following information is provided based
upon an incident that took place last December.
A friend was over the Midwest flying his family back to
Virginia in his homebuilt (very popular brand kit but
not a Zenith). He noticed a worsening reduction in
power that he was unable to reverse while flying
through a snow storm (so much for weather forecasts).
The engine quit. He landed the airplane (in the snow
storm with 1/4 mile visibility) in a field a few miles
short of the runway at an Air Force base. Everyone was
safe and the plane received only minor damage (wheel
pants). Upon checking for the cause, he discovered the
air filter was surrounded by snow/ice. The application
of carb heat put the heated air just behind the air
scoop and in front of the air filter. There was
insufficient hot air to melt the ice and snow, thus
cutting off the air supply. The airplane designer used
the same design on all of his designs.
Lesson: Route the carb heat supply to be after the air
filter. You will find this design on production
airplanes. It guarantees a supply of heated air into
the carb even if the normal air intake is completely
blocked.
Don (still thinking of building an XL)
From: "Weston & Judy Walker" <westonjudy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL/3300 Firewall Forward Kit
Walker"
I am about to purchase a Jabiru 3300 and a firewall
forward kit for my
601XL. I just discovered the firewall forward kit that
ZAC sells is
different from the one Pete sells at Jabiru USA Flight
Center.
According to Pete, here are the main differences:
1. Prop. ZAC uses Sensenich. Pete supplies GT and
claims better speed
and climb, better fuel efficiency with GT.
2. Location of oil cooler. ZAC on the side. Jabiru
lower center in
front of vent; claims better cooling.
3. Cowls. ZAC made by Skyshop, fit on inside of front
skins; Jabiru
from Jabiru in Australia, fit on outside of front
skins.
4. Carb heat. ZAC=92s filter is bypassed when carb heat
supplied; Jabiru
filters air either way.
Does anyone have any good/bad experience with either of
these Firewall
Forward kits? Any other pointers?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Weston Walker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
| Subject: | Hi all looking for 601 |
Hi all, Looking for a 601 un-completed kit for sale.
Must be a complete kit. Will look at kits with FWF's too.
Noel
Noel and Yoshie Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
"We do builder assistance!"
Toll Free: 866-859-0390
info(at)blueskyaviation.net
www.blueskyaviation.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Mufflers for Subaru engine |
Hi list,
I'm thinking about the exhaust system for my 601 and I
have a few questions.
1. How does the Stratus muffler system performs in
terms of noise reduction and weight?
2. Does anybody here has another exhaust installation
for an EA-81 engine and could share a bit about the
design and performance?
Thanks!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mufflers for Subaru engine |
Michel,
Tony Bingilis's book Firewall Forward has a very interesting Swiss Muffler
described on page 111 that intrigues me. It would move the CG back a little
and it's reported to comply with Swiss regulations on aircraft noise.
Larry McFarland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Mufflers for Subaru engine
>
> Hi list,
>
> I'm thinking about the exhaust system for my 601 and I
> have a few questions.
>
> 1. How does the Stratus muffler system performs in
> terms of noise reduction and weight?
>
> 2. Does anybody here has another exhaust installation
> for an EA-81 engine and could share a bit about the
> design and performance?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mufflers for Subaru engine |
I thought seriously about that for a while, but I
can't find the SS mesh nor the 4" aluminum tube.
--- Larry McFarland wrote:
>
>
> Michel,
> Tony Bingilis's book Firewall Forward has a very
> interesting Swiss Muffler
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morgan Wadsworth" <mwadsworth(at)factory53.com> |
| Subject: | Hi all looking for 601 |
Noel & Yoshie,
If you go to www.controller.com, click on experimental aircraft, then choose
zenith and zenair there was a 601 80% complete for sale, there are also some
completed and flying 601's forsale as well.
Hope this helps...
Morgan IV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Noel &
Yoshie Simmons
Subject: Zenith-List: Hi all looking for 601
Hi all, Looking for a 601 un-completed kit for sale.
Must be a complete kit. Will look at kits with FWF's too.
Noel
Noel and Yoshie Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
"We do builder assistance!"
Toll Free: 866-859-0390
info(at)blueskyaviation.net
www.blueskyaviation.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piano hinge retainment |
Wayne:
I found something today that might be interesting to you. Check out this
pin retainment idea:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/HingeSafety.jpg
This is one I had not seen.
Take care,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinge retainment
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:03:07 +1000
Would constructors mind enlightening me as to what methods they have used to
retain the piano hinge wire on their elevators and trim tabs etc.
Regards
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
610XL 5075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mufflers for Subaru engine |
Michel,
I made one 3 years ago for another plane (Volksplane), I used normal
steel mesh and a 3" alum tube (one available), my idea was just to
test it, and change it (or trow it away) a few months, well, the sound
is very low and still is on the plane, I found the SS mesh a few weeks
later and is still in the shop... The VP was sold and is still flying
silently.
Saludos
Gary Gower
710
--- Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> I thought seriously about that for a while, but I
> can't find the SS mesh nor the 4" aluminum tube.
>
>
> --- Larry McFarland wrote:
> >
> >
> > Michel,
> > Tony Bingilis's book Firewall Forward has a very
> > interesting Swiss Muffler
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mufflers for Subaru engine |
The Subarus I have seen and heard are not very loud. In fact, one had about
15" straight pipes and even it was not objectionable. I'm using a two into
one collector with a single outlet. The inlets are blocked off on the ends
and enough 1/4" inch holes drilled in the side to equal the pipe ID.Hope to
test run in the next 60 days.
Aaron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mufflers for Subaru engine
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mufflers for Subaru engine |
One of my friends use two straight pipes (about 18"
long) with a closed (but not blocked) end and holes.
This approach is described in Bingelis (Firewall
Forward). His engine is an EA-82 and I must say that
on the ground, we can hear him coming and we instantly
recognize him. Noisy. I'd prefer something quieter
than that.
Michel
--- Aaron wrote:
>
>
> The Subarus I have seen and heard are not very loud.
> In fact, one had about
> 15" straight pipes and even it was not
> objectionable. I'm using a two into
> one collector with a single outlet. The inlets are
> blocked off on the ends
> and enough 1/4" inch holes drilled in the side to
> equal the pipe ID.Hope to
> test run in the next 60 days.
> Aaron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mufflers for Subaru engine
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piano hinge retainment |
Good idea, but MILES away from KIS...
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
GDL, Mexico
Installing everything to the fuselage (gear, tail, controls...)
--- Scott Laughlin wrote:
>
>
> Wayne:
>
> I found something today that might be interesting to you. Check out
> this
> pin retainment idea:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/HingeSafety.jpg
>
> This is one I had not seen.
>
> Take care,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinge retainment
> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:03:07 +1000
>
>
>
> Would constructors mind enlightening me as to what methods they have
> used to
> retain the piano hinge wire on their elevators and trim tabs etc.
>
> Regards
>
> Wayne Glasser
> Sydney - Australia
> 610XL 5075
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Hi guys...
I have a Stratus EA81 and a few problems.I never had an EGT before
but I fitted one in each exhaust pipe because Stratus informed me
that they saw signs of high cyl temps. Not exactly sure what these
signs were but they thought that the motor had been "overheating".
Anyway, as the water temps had never been over 220F I thought it
good insurance to see what the EGT was doing.
After that I had a very nice big valve job done by Ram
performance...lovely properly stepped valve guides.all good stuff.
So I asked Ron at Ram what the EGT's should be?...He recommended a
maximum of 1250F...okey dokey...so I fit the EGT and calibrate them
with a handheld EGT from work in an adjacent hole in the ex pipe.
All very nice and the first thing the EGTs show is a 200F delta
between the banks. I found the needle positions different in the
BING altitude compensating carbs. I lift the lowest needle and the
banks now read the same throughout the rev range. So life is good
except that during taxi tests on our 6000ft runway I get full power
EGT's of 1450F and cruise settings of 1400. I.e higher than Ron's
1250F suggested max.
I decide to do a plug chop, raise rpm on the brakes to 3000rpm
(engine) and cut the igniton...all I got a was sooty plugs, as if
the mixture was VERY rich....I don't think it runs this rich,more
like something in the way the engine takes a last gulp of fuel that
gets partially burnt...besides i still have very high EGT's which
would presumably mean a weak mixture!
Ron suggested raising both the needles to get more fuel to cool the
mixture.Now my cruise is about 4400RPM and I would think the main
jet would have more authority at this engine speed than the needle.
But a needle height change I CAN DO RIGHT AWAY.
so I do this and taxi out to the runway....sure enough no change in
the full power EGT's (flys pretty good without the cowling) 'cos the
main jet is the same.
So I try a few runs at cruise setting about 44 to 4500 rpm. Well the
EGTs settle out to 1400F still way higher than 1250F maximum and
makes me nervous because of the so called "EVIDENCE OF OVERHEATING"
that Stratus told me about. The only difference is the motor was
using quite a bit more fuel, about 5.5GPM compared to the 5.0 GPM it
used to use.
I taxi back to the hangar, pull the plugs and once again they are
sooty but on one of them it was completly white underneath the soot.
Now the plugs are brand new and this engine has run for less than
one hour so I'm not sure plug color is a good indication of what the
mixture should be for such a short stop start regime of
testing...particularly if they soot up anyway when you kill the
ignition.
So I'm a little stumped as to what to do next? The whole premice
here is that 1450F is too high, is this true from everyone elses
experience?
How am I supposed to get the mixture set correctly with these carbs
in the first place.I always used to do this by doing plug chops on
old motorclycles, but this engine seems to just soot the plugs?
if it really is running way to rich, why the high EGT's?
I have a hard time believing a big valve job will make a big
difference in the mixture?
Seems to me there must be a way to set the mixture correctly and get
resaonable EGT readings.
I'm pretty sure the ignition timing is close to where it should be.
Any comments most gratefully received.
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | inconsistency in CH601 HD plans, page 6V2 |
Hello, all
For the record, a couple of answers from ZAC, one of them involving an error in
the
CH601 HD plans, 4th edition:
.................................................................
"Zenith Aircraft Company"
2003/04/15 09:55
Subject: Re: inconsistency in CH601 plans, page 6V2
> I believe I found a small error in the (computer drawn) plans, 4th
> Edition 04/01. I have plans for a CH601-HD, serial 6-3066.
>
> If the spar tip 6V2-3 is cut as shown, the angle between the tip
> edge will not be at 50 degrees with the vertical.
>
> The problem seems to be the horizontal, bottom, measurement of 270
> mm. If the measure is applied at the bend line, as in the old, hand
> drafted plans, then the edge will be at 50 degrees.
>
> Could you please confirm the correct way of measuring 6V2-3: 270 mm
> at the bottom edge or at the bend line?
Thanks for pointing this out. Holding the 615 along the top, the
dl=305 and the 50 degrees from vertical as true, then the distance
across the bottom is 252mm (instead of 270 shown on the 4th edition).
Note: 270 is a horizontal distance 290mm from the top edge
> Also, I'd like to confirm that the position of the lightening holes
> is measured from the edges of the (flat) part (as shown in 4th
> edition plans), and not from the bend line.
Correct, the 118 and 152 are measured down from the top edge (615mm
side)
> Finally, if I build wings with the baggage lockers, must I make
> lightening holes in the ribs at stations 130 and 650?
If you leave out the lightening holes, you may want to add vertical
stiffeners, ref bottom right diagram on 6-V-6
Nick Heintz Zenith
Aircraft Company support@zenithair.com http://www.zenithair.com
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Frank,
Not much of an engine person and haven't got my plane in the air yet,
but you may want to take a look at www.bingcarburetor.com.
They have a tuning and parts manual for the CV Bing Carb (which is what
Stratus uses on the EA81), and you can also buy any of the needed parts
for later overhaul, etc. for your bing carbs.
In the tuning/parts manual it talks about a colortune spark plug that
allows you to see the flame color of each cyclinder and adjust the carbs
for the proper mixture. They also have information on carb synchronizers
which may also help.
Hope this helps and please let us know what you find.
Regards,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
Hi guys...
I have a Stratus EA81 and a few problems.I never had an EGT before
but I fitted one in each exhaust pipe because Stratus informed me
that they saw signs of high cyl temps. Not exactly sure what these
signs were but they thought that the motor had been "overheating".
Anyway, as the water temps had never been over 220F I thought it
good insurance to see what the EGT was doing.
After that I had a very nice big valve job done by Ram
performance...lovely properly stepped valve guides.all good stuff.
So I asked Ron at Ram what the EGT's should be?...He recommended a
maximum of 1250F...okey dokey...so I fit the EGT and calibrate them
with a handheld EGT from work in an adjacent hole in the ex pipe.
All very nice and the first thing the EGTs show is a 200F delta
between the banks. I found the needle positions different in the
BING altitude compensating carbs. I lift the lowest needle and the
banks now read the same throughout the rev range. So life is good
except that during taxi tests on our 6000ft runway I get full power
EGT's of 1450F and cruise settings of 1400. I.e higher than Ron's
1250F suggested max.
I decide to do a plug chop, raise rpm on the brakes to 3000rpm
(engine) and cut the igniton...all I got a was sooty plugs, as if
the mixture was VERY rich....I don't think it runs this rich,more
like something in the way the engine takes a last gulp of fuel that
gets partially burnt...besides i still have very high EGT's which
would presumably mean a weak mixture!
Ron suggested raising both the needles to get more fuel to cool the
mixture.Now my cruise is about 4400RPM and I would think the main
jet would have more authority at this engine speed than the needle.
But a needle height change I CAN DO RIGHT AWAY.
so I do this and taxi out to the runway....sure enough no change in
the full power EGT's (flys pretty good without the cowling) 'cos the
main jet is the same.
So I try a few runs at cruise setting about 44 to 4500 rpm. Well the
EGTs settle out to 1400F still way higher than 1250F maximum and
makes me nervous because of the so called "EVIDENCE OF OVERHEATING"
that Stratus told me about. The only difference is the motor was
using quite a bit more fuel, about 5.5GPM compared to the 5.0 GPM it
used to use.
I taxi back to the hangar, pull the plugs and once again they are
sooty but on one of them it was completly white underneath the soot.
Now the plugs are brand new and this engine has run for less than
one hour so I'm not sure plug color is a good indication of what the
mixture should be for such a short stop start regime of
testing...particularly if they soot up anyway when you kill the
ignition.
So I'm a little stumped as to what to do next? The whole premice
here is that 1450F is too high, is this true from everyone elses
experience?
How am I supposed to get the mixture set correctly with these carbs
in the first place.I always used to do this by doing plug chops on
old motorclycles, but this engine seems to just soot the plugs?
if it really is running way to rich, why the high EGT's?
I have a hard time believing a big valve job will make a big
difference in the mixture?
Seems to me there must be a way to set the mixture correctly and get
resaonable EGT readings.
I'm pretty sure the ignition timing is close to where it should be.
Any comments most gratefully received.
Frank
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com> |
EGT is very position sensitive, at least in a Rotax 912. An inch up or downstream
from the port might be 200 degrees F. Rotax has a recommended distance from
a position inside the head. This is not easy to measure. Ask Stratus WHERE
the thermocouple should be located.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Thanks George,
Ron suggested aposition of 6" away from the manifold. My EGT probes are two
inches closer but my calibrated probe was stuck in the exhaust at 6" where
it showed the EGT probes to be remarkably accurate.
Stratus do not recommend EGT's.
Its almost as if the EGT's have begged more questions than answers....
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Pinneo, George [mailto:George.Pinneo(at)trw.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
EGT is very position sensitive, at least in a Rotax 912. An inch up or
downstream from the port might be 200 degrees F. Rotax has a recommended
distance from a position inside the head. This is not easy to measure. Ask
Stratus WHERE the thermocouple should be located.
GGP
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Frank,
Why did Stratus think that your engine was running too hot?
Also, if anyone with a Subaru EA81 could let us know what values they
are getting that may also be helpful.
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
Thanks George,
Ron suggested aposition of 6" away from the manifold. My EGT probes are
two inches closer but my calibrated probe was stuck in the exhaust at 6"
where it showed the EGT probes to be remarkably accurate.
Stratus do not recommend EGT's.
Its almost as if the EGT's have begged more questions than answers....
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Pinneo, George [mailto:George.Pinneo(at)trw.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
EGT is very position sensitive, at least in a Rotax 912. An inch up or
downstream from the port might be 200 degrees F. Rotax has a
recommended distance from a position inside the head. This is not easy
to measure. Ask Stratus WHERE the thermocouple should be located.
GGP
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlson, Dale" <DCarlson(at)mail.dese.state.mo.us> |
I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for the 801.
Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area. It would be
helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there in a "word"
form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild the wheel if it
already exists.
Dale Carlson
N128DC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Well I had a valve guide failure...the new phos bronze circlipped type. When
they got the heads they said they saw cupping in the valve seats and it
looked generally worn out, even though it had just over 100 hours on it.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach [mailto:don(at)pcperfect.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
Frank,
Why did Stratus think that your engine was running too hot?
Also, if anyone with a Subaru EA81 could let us know what values they are
getting that may also be helpful.
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
Thanks George,
Ron suggested aposition of 6" away from the manifold. My EGT probes are two
inches closer but my calibrated probe was stuck in the exhaust at 6" where
it showed the EGT probes to be remarkably accurate.
Stratus do not recommend EGT's.
Its almost as if the EGT's have begged more questions than answers....
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Pinneo, George [mailto:George.Pinneo(at)trw.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
EGT is very position sensitive, at least in a Rotax 912. An inch up or
downstream from the port might be 200 degrees F. Rotax has a recommended
distance from a position inside the head. This is not easy to measure. Ask
Stratus WHERE the thermocouple should be located.
GGP
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston(at)delta.com> |
Frank,
Early ignition timing can put a strain on valve seats. I experimented with my
carb main jets and timing for a similar reason. Overall engine and oil temps
running a bit high during hot summer weather. Not to red line, but higher than
I liked. Anyway, I ended up with the main jets set one notch from their richest
setting (I also tried the richest setting), and I backed off on the timing
advance a bit. I had previously checked (several times) and set the timing
as the manual calls for, 31 degrees at 4500 rpm. I ended up with a 'that looks
about right' setting, by simply turning the distributor a small amount (in the
proper direction of course). One of these days, when I have the prop off,
I need to check and see where it ended up. I can tell you that when I do the
run-up and check the primary and backup ignition at 3000 rpm there is almost no
rpm difference now. There used to be an rpm drop when I went to the backup
ignition. These two changes in combination did help my temp problems.
By the way, I also found out that you can end up with sooty spark plugs even with
the main jets set too lean. This happens when the idle mixture is set too
rich. The plugs soot up during idle while taxiing back in to the hangar.
Good Luck,
Jim Weston
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
Well I had a valve guide failure...the new phos bronze circlipped type. When
they got the heads they said they saw cupping in the valve seats and it
looked generally worn out, even though it had just over 100 hours on it.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach [mailto:don(at)pcperfect.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
Frank,
Why did Stratus think that your engine was running too hot?
Also, if anyone with a Subaru EA81 could let us know what values they are
getting that may also be helpful.
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
Thanks George,
Ron suggested aposition of 6" away from the manifold. My EGT probes are two
inches closer but my calibrated probe was stuck in the exhaust at 6" where
it showed the EGT probes to be remarkably accurate.
Stratus do not recommend EGT's.
Its almost as if the EGT's have begged more questions than answers....
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Pinneo, George [mailto:George.Pinneo(at)trw.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
EGT is very position sensitive, at least in a Rotax 912. An inch up or
downstream from the port might be 200 degrees F. Rotax has a recommended
distance from a position inside the head. This is not easy to measure. Ask
Stratus WHERE the thermocouple should be located.
GGP
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | 701 Firewall Insullation |
Just a quick question for any owners of aircraft with the 912 engine,
have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
Mike Sinclair / 701 taildragger
Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train!
Should fly sometime later this summer (I think the obvious quote has
something to do with the creek not rising).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Knighton" <knighton(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE: Partial CH-601HD Kit |
Hello List Members:
I began the construction of a tricycle geared CH-601HD several years ago. Due
to economic reasons, I will not be finishing the project, and offer the following
components for sale:
-All components for center wing section - $1,000.00.
-Fuselage Kit - $2900.00
-Gears & Wheels Kit - $870.00
-Controls Kit - $450.00
-Fuel System Kit (with 2x12 gallon LE tanks with level senders) - $540.00
-Aeroflash Nav/Strobe Light Kit - $300.00
-Wheel Fairings (quantity of 3) - $180.00
These prices are for any or all of the sub-kits, and include boxing/crating, but
shipping will be extra.
If anyone would like to discuss this matter, I can be contacted by e-mail at knighton(at)sound.net
or phone at 913-310-9512.
Best Regards,
Joe Knighton
Lenexa, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EA-81 High Temps - Frank... |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Frank,
I was just catching up on some reading and found an article in the March
2003 issue of KitPlanes that might be of interest. In the engine beat
section, they talk about problems with an EA-81 and they mention that
trouble doesn't start for EGT until 1600 degrees. Too many details to
repeat, but if you haven't read it yet, it's definitely worth tracking
down.
Regards,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
EA81
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
Mike,
I used two inch fibreglas insulation on the firewall and the first 12 inches
of the fuse side. I stripped off the onesided covering so as to eliminate
any chance of combustability. No heat comes through into the cockpit.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
04/17/2003 10:36:18 AM
Ditto for the 601 XL.
Craig Spainhower
"Carlson, Dale"
o.us> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Zenith-List:
CH-801 POH
owner-zenith-list-server@ma
tronics.com
04/15/03 05:49 PM
Please respond to
zenith-list
I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area. It
would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
the wheel if it already exists.
Dale Carlson
N128DC
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 701 Firewall Insullation |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com> |
I chose not to insulate my 601 HDS/912 firewall; no real issues in 400 hours of
operation. I'm sure it'd be quieter and maybe cooler with it insulated.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/17/2003 8:38:17 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
caspainhower(at)aep.com writes:
>
>
>
>
> I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
> the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area. It
> would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
> in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
> the wheel if it already exists.
>
> Dale Carlson
> N128DC
>
Well, There are three things we all know for sure....
1.... Make sure your fuel tanks are venting properly.
2... A 801 with a Walter LOM will drop its nose real fast an a slow final.
3... A 801 with a Walter LOM will probably excede VNE.
I hope to have a bunch more info on flying characteristics of an 801 in the
next couple of months. It does seem odd that ZAC leaves out simple things to
get us all through the first few flights though.
Ben Haas N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)thegateway.net> |
I have a POH in Word for my 701/Jabiru 2200 which would be a good starting
place. Mostly updating numbers. I modified it from the ZAC web page. If
there is a lot of interest, I'll put it on my web pages.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <caspainhower(at)aep.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
>
>
> Ditto for the 601 XL.
>
> Craig Spainhower
>
>
> "Carlson, Dale"
>
> o.us> cc:
> Sent by: Subject:
Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> owner-zenith-list-server@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> 04/15/03 05:49 PM
> Please respond to
> zenith-list
>
>
>
>
> I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
> the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area.
It
> would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
> in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
> the wheel if it already exists.
>
> Dale Carlson
> N128DC
>
>
> This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
> Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlson, Dale" <DCarlson(at)mail.dese.state.mo.us> |
I would be interested in looking at your 701 POH. I believe there is quite a lot
that could be incorporated into the 801 POH.
Dale Carlson
N128DC
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Deiterich [mailto:cfd(at)thegateway.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
I have a POH in Word for my 701/Jabiru 2200 which would be a good starting
place. Mostly updating numbers. I modified it from the ZAC web page. If
there is a lot of interest, I'll put it on my web pages.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <caspainhower(at)aep.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
>
>
> Ditto for the 601 XL.
>
> Craig Spainhower
>
>
> "Carlson, Dale"
>
> o.us> cc:
> Sent by: Subject:
Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> owner-zenith-list-server@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> 04/15/03 05:49 PM
> Please respond to
> zenith-list
>
>
>
>
> I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
> the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area.
It
> would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
> in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
> the wheel if it already exists.
>
> Dale Carlson
> N128DC
>
>
> This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
> Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Hi all,
Thankyou for all your considered responses to my "high EGT problem"
From what everyone says it seems this maybe a non issue (certainly not a big
enough problem to cause a valve guide failure at least).
So I will reset my mixtures to what they were (and the plug clour seemed
fine) and take it round the pattern and pull the plugs like I've always
done.
The EGT's at least will pick up differences between the banks, the meter
seems to do this quite well, in fact the difference of one notch on one carb
needle produced a difference between the banks of nearly 200F
This difference went away when I equalised the needles.
Hopefully I can remember how to fly this thing after a few months of having
heads rebuilt.
Frank
Wondering how well a 601 HDS will climb with one of Ramperformance's 137Hp
EA 81's....:)
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach [mailto:don(at)pcperfect.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
Frank,
Not much of an engine person and haven't got my plane in the air yet, but
you may want to take a look at www.bingcarburetor.com.
They have a tuning and parts manual for the CV Bing Carb (which is what
Stratus uses on the EA81), and you can also buy any of the needed parts for
later overhaul, etc. for your bing carbs.
In the tuning/parts manual it talks about a colortune spark plug that allows
you to see the flame color of each cyclinder and adjust the carbs for the
proper mixture. They also have information on carb synchronizers which may
also help.
Hope this helps and please let us know what you find.
Regards,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde(at)hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
-->
Hi guys...
I have a Stratus EA81 and a few problems.I never had an EGT before
but I fitted one in each exhaust pipe because Stratus informed me
that they saw signs of high cyl temps. Not exactly sure what these
signs were but they thought that the motor had been "overheating".
Anyway, as the water temps had never been over 220F I thought it
good insurance to see what the EGT was doing.
After that I had a very nice big valve job done by Ram
performance...lovely properly stepped valve guides.all good stuff.
So I asked Ron at Ram what the EGT's should be?...He recommended a
maximum of 1250F...okey dokey...so I fit the EGT and calibrate them
with a handheld EGT from work in an adjacent hole in the ex pipe.
All very nice and the first thing the EGTs show is a 200F delta
between the banks. I found the needle positions different in the
BING altitude compensating carbs. I lift the lowest needle and the
banks now read the same throughout the rev range. So life is good
except that during taxi tests on our 6000ft runway I get full power
EGT's of 1450F and cruise settings of 1400. I.e higher than Ron's
1250F suggested max.
I decide to do a plug chop, raise rpm on the brakes to 3000rpm
(engine) and cut the igniton...all I got a was sooty plugs, as if
the mixture was VERY rich....I don't think it runs this rich,more
like something in the way the engine takes a last gulp of fuel that
gets partially burnt...besides i still have very high EGT's which
would presumably mean a weak mixture!
Ron suggested raising both the needles to get more fuel to cool the
mixture.Now my cruise is about 4400RPM and I would think the main
jet would have more authority at this engine speed than the needle.
But a needle height change I CAN DO RIGHT AWAY.
so I do this and taxi out to the runway....sure enough no change in
the full power EGT's (flys pretty good without the cowling) 'cos the
main jet is the same.
So I try a few runs at cruise setting about 44 to 4500 rpm. Well the
EGTs settle out to 1400F still way higher than 1250F maximum and
makes me nervous because of the so called "EVIDENCE OF OVERHEATING"
that Stratus told me about. The only difference is the motor was
using quite a bit more fuel, about 5.5GPM compared to the 5.0 GPM it
used to use.
I taxi back to the hangar, pull the plugs and once again they are
sooty but on one of them it was completly white underneath the soot.
Now the plugs are brand new and this engine has run for less than
one hour so I'm not sure plug color is a good indication of what the
mixture should be for such a short stop start regime of
testing...particularly if they soot up anyway when you kill the
ignition.
So I'm a little stumped as to what to do next? The whole premice
here is that 1450F is too high, is this true from everyone elses
experience?
How am I supposed to get the mixture set correctly with these carbs
in the first place.I always used to do this by doing plug chops on
old motorclycles, but this engine seems to just soot the plugs?
if it really is running way to rich, why the high EGT's?
I have a hard time believing a big valve job will make a big
difference in the mixture?
Seems to me there must be a way to set the mixture correctly and get
resaonable EGT readings.
I'm pretty sure the ignition timing is close to where it should be.
Any comments most gratefully received.
Frank
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
I am working on a POH, with blanks for numbers to be determined during the
40 hour flight testing, and ZAC supplied numbers for others, along with
some checklists for my particular plane. These are both based on a 172 POH
for format (and helping to decide what is needed) as well as a couple of RV
POH's that I've found on line.
I would be glad to share this with someone else to has similar data to swap.
Perhaps the reason that ZAC doesn't supply one is that much of it is engine
depenedant, many numbers need to be determined as part of flight test
anyway, and the big one is that there is a fair amount of legal precedent
for using the POH as a method to sue the manufacturer's "deep pockets."
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomLazear(at)netscape.net (John Lazear) |
| Subject: | 701 Firewall Insullation |
I did not use any insulation and your feet are always warm, so I would have to
say there is noticable heat.
Tom 701
mike sinclair wrote:
>
>Just a quick question for any owners of aircraft with the 912 engine,
>have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
>been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
>was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
>am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
>project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
>
>Mike Sinclair / 701 taildragger
>Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train!
>Should fly sometime later this summer (I think the obvious quote has
>something to do with the creek not rising).
>
>
Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/17/2003 12:44:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
gary(at)liming.org writes:
> to be determined as part of flight test
> anyway, and the big one is that there is a fair amount of legal precedent
> for using the POH as a method to sue the manufacturer's "deep pockets."
>
>
Very good point.!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Chuck,
I will like to give a look to it, We are building ours with a 912S,
but will be ago start. Thank a lot in advance
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
GDL, Mexico
--- Chuck Deiterich wrote:
>
>
> I have a POH in Word for my 701/Jabiru 2200 which would be a good
> starting
> place. Mostly updating numbers. I modified it from the ZAC web
> page. If
> there is a lot of interest, I'll put it on my web pages.
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <caspainhower(at)aep.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ditto for the 601 XL.
> >
> > Craig Spainhower
> >
> >
> > "Carlson, Dale"
> >
> > o.us> cc:
> > Sent by: Subject:
> Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> > owner-zenith-list-server@ma
> > tronics.com
> >
> >
> > 04/15/03 05:49 PM
> > Please respond to
> > zenith-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook
> (POH) for
> > the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this
> area.
> It
> > would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available
> out there
> > in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to
> rebuild
> > the wheel if it already exists.
> >
> > Dale Carlson
> > N128DC
> >
> >
> > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from
> the
> > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the
> sole
> > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure
> or
> > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please
> > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
> original
> > message.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ABC" <pfergus2(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
Mike and Group
I found a site with some interesting products. They have a liquid sound
proofing paint ?? It's FAA approved. I have never used this product, but I
did purchase some of their 2 inch tape ( worked good , it stuck to
everything ). Just a though....
http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/index.html
Peter Ferguson
N601PK
Jab 3300
7 years in the making ..... Almost done !!
----- Original Message ----- > Just a quick question for any owners of
aircraft with the 912 engine,
> have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
> been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
> was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
> am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
> project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | g t <wauwis2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
Another thought along a similar line. I have seen a coating that is Latex based,
but primarily composed of a ceramic material. I used it at work for insulating
hot tanks. This may be an interesting product to pursue for heat insulating
the firewall. If anyone has interest, I will look up more information on
this material to see if it is a fit. It would certainly provide good heat insulation
in a very thin application. Probably at a weight disadvantage to fiberglass
though.
Mike and Group
I found a site with some interesting products. They have a liquid sound
proofing paint ?? It's FAA approved. I have never used this product, but I
did purchase some of their 2 inch tape ( worked good , it stuck to
everything ). Just a though....
http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/index.html
Peter Ferguson
N601PK
Jab 3300
7 years in the making ..... Almost done !!
----- Original Message ----- > Just a quick question for any owners of
aircraft with the 912 engine,
> have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
> been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
> was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
> am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
> project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Knighton" <knighton(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE: Partial CH-601HD Kit - UPDATE |
***** UPDATE *****
Hello List Members:
I began the construction of a tricycle geared CH-601HD several years ago. Due
to economic reasons, I will not be finishing the project, and offer the following
components for sale:
-All components for center wing section - $1,000.00.
-Fuselage Kit - $2900.00
-Gears & Wheels Kit - $870.00
-Controls Kit - $450.00
-Fuel System Kit (with 2x12 gallon LE tanks with level senders) - $540.00
-Aeroflash Nav/Strobe Light Kit - ***** SOLD *****
-Wheel Fairings (quantity of 3) - $180.00
These prices are for any or all of the sub-kits, and include boxing/crating, but
shipping will be extra.
If anyone would like to discuss this matter, I can be contacted by e-mail at knighton(at)sound.net
or phone at 913-310-9512.
Best Regards,
Joe Knighton
Lenexa, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joseph Kintz <kintzjd(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
I hope this isn't the same "insulating paint" system demonstrated to me by the
manufacturer a few years ago. He brought a table-top demonstration with a
little house heated by an external light bulb. A thermometer inside the house
registered the internal temperature with and without "insulating paint" on the
roof. Sure enough, the insulating paint lowered the temperature inside the
house. Trouble is, when I layed a sheet of white paper on the unpainted roof,
the inside temperature dropped even more than with the "insulating paint". The
obvious conclusion is that the white color of the paint reflects light
radiation better than a darker colored surface. No surprise there. A good
insulator for your firewall should reflect infrared radiation and have low
thermal conductivity. I'm don't know if this "insulating paint" will fit the
bill.
Joe
--- g t wrote:
>
> Another thought along a similar line. I have seen a coating that is Latex
> based, but primarily composed of a ceramic material. I used it at work for
> insulating hot tanks. This may be an interesting product to pursue for heat
> insulating the firewall. If anyone has interest, I will look up more
> information on this material to see if it is a fit. It would certainly
> provide good heat insulation in a very thin application. Probably at a
> weight disadvantage to fiberglass though.
>
>
>
>
> Mike and Group
>
> I found a site with some interesting products. They have a liquid sound
> proofing paint ?? It's FAA approved. I have never used this product, but I
> did purchase some of their 2 inch tape ( worked good , it stuck to
> everything ). Just a though....
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/index.html
>
>
> Peter Ferguson
> N601PK
> Jab 3300
> 7 years in the making ..... Almost done !!
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > Just a quick question for any owners of
> aircraft with the 912 engine,
> > have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
> > been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
> > was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
> > am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
> > project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | insulation/soundproofing materials |
The discussion and info from the site recently mentioned about firewall insulation
materials leads to this additional input.
When I planned the insulation of the firewall in my 601 the design was to use 1/4
inch "super soundproofing sheet" from ACS. I purchased that thickness because
of cost (the stuff is fairly expensive) and because I didn't know how much
room would be available between the header tank and the firewall.
Using Bill Morelli's idea of setting the tank back off the firewall by 3/4 to 1
inch through the use of standoffs resulted in the answer to whether there would
be enough room. Then Fred Hulen made the decision (indirectly) for me by discovering
the foam he was going to use on the firewall could be painted - and
color matched to your interior - using simple latex interior paint.
The foam is the nitrate closed-cell vinyl foam mentioned on the soundproofing site.
Locally you will find HVAC firms using it in new construction around office
building and schools. Available in a myriad of thickness (just pay your $),
it meets many fire retardant standards including FAR 25.853b. The roll mine
was cut from carried numerous tags. If you ever look at one of these tags you'll
see a lot of California standards.
I used 1 inch thickness on the bottom half (or more) of the firewall and the 1/4
inch between the header and firewall. Attached using contact cement which probably
upped the ante on flammability - BUT Fred discovered the latex paint actually
cuts down on the "smolder factor." The local hardware store matched
the color of my seat material. Caveat, the stuff is fairly heavy.
Its heat and cold insulating properties are excellent and very little sound seems
to be transmitted through it. All-aluminum a/c that weigh around 600 to 750
pounds are not going to be the quietest flying environment you can find so noise
will be an objective observation.
Go back in the archives and use Fred's name and "3M sound dampening tape" and you'll
find something that really reduces oilcanning noises from the large areas
in the rear fuselages of all the Zenith designs. It's a tape-backed, dead soft,
all aluminum sheet (sometimes cut into strips) that you cut and paste.
Many of the builders peering under the panel at SnF asked about how the firewall
was color-matched to the interior - this is how. Anyone who would like to see
the results can contact me or Fred off-list and we'll send you a few jpegs.
.and PK, when you gonna kick the tires and light the fires of that Jab?
Regards Jeff and 22Tango with 75+ hours and over 2600 miles of x-country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif(at)duck.org> |
| Subject: | CH-640 'L' Angle |
Hello List,
In the CH-640 Rudder Assembly Manual, there is a reference to a
"STANDARD Lx35mm OPENED 18 degrees". However it gives no other
dimensions. I understand the 35mm is the length (cut from a 4 foot
piece), but does anyone know what the thickness and width of each side
is?
TIA,
Clif
Serial No. 640-0039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Witt" <david(at)davidwitt.com> |
| Subject: | CH-640 'L' Angle |
Hi Clif
In the "Design and Construction Standards" manual that came with my plans,
on page 2-251 p. 1/2 There are standard aluminum shapes. One is an "L" and
the other is a "Z". I haven't started building, but I think this is what is
meant by "Standard L". I believe this is the angle shown connecting the
Spar to the Tip Rib on drawing 640-R-4.
Dave
Serial No. 640-0037
> In the CH-640 Rudder Assembly Manual, there is a reference to a
> "STANDARD Lx35mm OPENED 18 degrees". However it gives no other
> dimensions. I understand the 35mm is the length (cut from a 4 foot
> piece), but does anyone know what the thickness and width of each side
> is?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif(at)duck.org> |
| Subject: | CH-640 'L' Angle |
Thanks for the replies. I found the specs. Somehow I missed that page
when I was going through the book.
As my Dad used to say, sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.
:)
Thanks again.
Clif
Serial no. 640-0039
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Witt
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH-640 'L' Angle
Hi Clif
In the "Design and Construction Standards" manual that came with my
plans, on page 2-251 p. 1/2 There are standard aluminum shapes. One is
an "L" and the other is a "Z". I haven't started building, but I think
this is what is meant by "Standard L". I believe this is the angle
shown connecting the Spar to the Tip Rib on drawing 640-R-4.
Dave
Serial No. 640-0037
> In the CH-640 Rudder Assembly Manual, there is a reference to a
> "STANDARD Lx35mm OPENED 18 degrees". However it gives no other
> dimensions. I understand the 35mm is the length (cut from a 4 foot
> piece), but does anyone know what the thickness and width of each side
> is?
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cockpit floor rivet drag |
Has anyone given any thought on riveting parts from the underside of the
cockpit floor to prevent the pulled heads from hanging from the bottom of the
plane and creating drag? It appears that this can be done either from the top
or bottom. Would the rivet "bulbs" be unsightly on the inside of the cockpit
floor? Thanks Jack Russell Clovis CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit floor rivet drag |
Jack,
I've pulled all rivets exposed from the outside to keep
the heads in the air flow. I think most do this. The bulbs
sticking up thru the floor are not a visual problem.
Access is the other thing. If you have to drill out any of
these, you want to be outside the plane if you can.
Drilling and pulling rivets from the inside is hard enough
where it's necessary.
Larry McFarland 601hds
----- Original Message -----
From: <CLOJAN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: cockpit floor rivet drag
>
> Has anyone given any thought on riveting parts from the underside of the
> cockpit floor to prevent the pulled heads from hanging from the bottom of
the
> plane and creating drag? It appears that this can be done either from the
top
> or bottom. Would the rivet "bulbs" be unsightly on the inside of the
cockpit
> floor? Thanks Jack Russell Clovis CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Kramer" <edair701(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit floor rivet drag |
----- Original Message -----
From: <CLOJAN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: cockpit floor rivet drag
>
> Has anyone given any thought on riveting parts from the underside of the
> cockpit floor to prevent the pulled heads from hanging from the bottom of
the
> plane and creating drag? It appears that this can be done either from the
top
> or bottom. Would the rivet "bulbs" be unsightly on the inside of the
cockpit
> floor? Thanks Jack Russell Clovis CA
Jack,
One thing to keep in mind, you should rivet the thinner metal to the
thicker. The shop head should be formed on the thicker metal.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701: completed rudder, left wing, finishing right wing.
edair701(at)adelphia.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit floor rivet drag |
We are riveting them from the outside, we are planning to use a light
carpet w/insulation inside, then the pulled side will be covered.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
--- CLOJAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Has anyone given any thought on riveting parts from the underside of
> the
> cockpit floor to prevent the pulled heads from hanging from the
> bottom of the
> plane and creating drag? It appears that this can be done either from
> the top
> or bottom. Would the rivet "bulbs" be unsightly on the inside of the
> cockpit
> floor? Thanks Jack Russell Clovis CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Carpet - Suggestions |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Hey Everyone,
Starting to think about carpet...
What has everyone been doing? Can you just go out and look for
lightweight carpet or is there a special 'aircraft grade carpet'?
Thanks!
Don Honabach
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Kramer" <edair701(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpet - Suggestions |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Carpet - Suggestions
>
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Starting to think about carpet...
>
> What has everyone been doing? Can you just go out and look for
> lightweight carpet or is there a special 'aircraft grade carpet'?
>
> Thanks!
> Don Honabach
Don,
As the manufacturer I guess you can use what ever you like. There is
aircraft grade carpet that must be used in certified aircraft. One of the
main characteristics is it's fireproof.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701(at)adelphia.net
======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Carpet - Suggestions |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com> |
Automotive upholstery shops often sell synthetic upholstery/carpeting that's supposed
to be flame retardent. That's what I've used.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpet - Suggestions |
The carpeting in certified aircraft is fire resistant not fire proof. It
won't support flame by itself, but it will burn. Throw it in a gasoline or
avgas fire and it will burn/melt or some combination of the above just like
the aluminum the rest of the plane is made of. Shops that sell upholstery
to automotive and aircraft shops will sell it to you. Just stop by a shop
listed in your local yellow pages and ask them where they get their
materials. Much of the commercial automotive grade stuff meets the fire
ratings. They may even have a cutoff or end of a roll big enough for your
application dirt cheap.
Dave
Taxi testing tomorrow!
>
> > What has everyone been doing? Can you just go out and look for
> > lightweight carpet or is there a special 'aircraft grade carpet'?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Don Honabach
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61(at)birch.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpet - Suggestions |
One of the
> main characteristics is it's fireproof.
I brought home samples of light weight carpets AND a chunk of "yellow
tagged" aviation approved stuff (that was heavy...ugh). I subjected them all
to my own burn test and found that all of them would support a flame as long
as there is a source to keep it going (a match, a propane torch, etc.) but
if you remove the ignition source, they all went out and would not support a
flame by themselves. I chose one of the light weight versions,.....works
for me!
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpet - Suggestions |
I got some carpet from Airtex (215 295-4115) that "meets or exceeds FAR
23.853". I thought it was a pretty good price, nice quality and very light.
Gary K.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Carpet - Suggestions
>
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Starting to think about carpet...
>
> What has everyone been doing? Can you just go out and look for
> lightweight carpet or is there a special 'aircraft grade carpet'?
>
> Thanks!
> Don Honabach
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Anyone know what size the Bing carbs are on the Stratus motor...its either
32 or 40mm....I need to order a rebuild kit (im going to strip the carbs)
and I'm too lazy to flog down the airport to find out...
The numer is stamped on the little web under the top "bubble" of the carb on
the center line of the carb. It shoud say 64/32/......,,the 32 is either 32
or 40
Thanks
Frank
Think I've a small airleak on one side...running weak
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EA 81 problems |
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
>
> Anyone know what size the Bing carbs are on the Stratus motor...its either
> 32 or 40mm....I need to order a rebuild kit (im going to strip the carbs)
> and I'm too lazy to flog down the airport to find out...
>
> The numer is stamped on the little web under the top "bubble" of the carb
on
> the center line of the carb. It shoud say 64/32/......,,the 32 is either
32
> or 40
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
> Think I've a small airleak on one side...running weak
Frank,
I looked at mine in the garage(not 30 feet away) and it is "64/32/1440"
Didn't know what it meant before.
Thanks,
Larry McFarland - 601hds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz(at)earthlink.net> |
I am starting to wire my 912 S and pretty intimidated. There are 6 posts on the
regulator / rectifier marked G G R B L C . The two yellow wires go to
the two G posts. What wires go to the other 4 posts? I am using a Grand Rapids
EIS with optional fuel totalizer ( if that makes any difference).
Lowell Metz
701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
Lowell,
Today I am doing the same thing with the EIS on a Rotax 912S powered
Catalina.
G= Yellow
G= yellow
R & B get wired together (one note here some installations have a capacitor
and these two wires run across one of the capacitor posts to the bus bar,
the other post on the capacitor goes to ground)
L= open
C= can run from circuit breaker on panel (it provides buss bar voltage
signal to give reference to the regulator for over and under charge)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Metz
Subject: Zenith-List: 912 S Rectifier
I am starting to wire my 912 S and pretty intimidated. There are 6 posts on
the regulator / rectifier marked G G R B L C . The two yellow wires go
to the two G posts. What wires go to the other 4 posts? I am using a Grand
Rapids EIS with optional fuel totalizer ( if that makes any difference).
Lowell Metz
701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 S Rectifier |
>
> I am starting to wire my 912 S and pretty intimidated. There are 6 posts
on the regulator / rectifier marked G G R B L C . The two yellow wires
go to the two G posts. What wires go to the other 4 posts? I am using a
Grand Rapids EIS with optional fuel totalizer ( if that makes any
difference).
> Lowell Metz
Lowell,
The R and B get tied together and go permanently to the main bus, thru a
30amp fuse.
Dont forget the large capacitor that also goes from the bus to ground
(filters the ripple and noise from that regulator).
The L optionally goes to a 12V bulb which will light when the alternator
stops charging (engine off).
The C goes to the main bus too, BUT must be switched OFF when the engine is
shut down or the battery will drain. In other words, C goes to the bus thru
an on/off switch. The regulator will not produce output unless you switch
this on. But because this circiut uses a small sample of current, you must
shut it off when the engine is not in use.
This wiring can be confirmed in the 912 installation manual. I just finsihed
this wiring myself a couple weeks ago and started the engine for the first
time. What a great feeling to see it run. Put too much oil in the tank and
watched it spray out of the overflow tube!! But electrically, the circuits
charged as they were supposed to, (so says the amp meter, volt meter), and
the lite came on when the engine was shut down. Good luck,
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walt Cannon" <grnlake(at)earthlink.net> |
Sounds like a lot of us are at about this same place. I have been eyeballing
the schematics for the engine wiring installation in my 701 and was
wondering about this capacitor. Is it necessary? Any tips on where to get a
"high quality" aircraft grade device of this size? Part #s and sources?
Anybody feel like sharing a picture of a completed installation? Have people
used a traditional switched "master solenoid" to activate the buss from the
battery hot cable? I was thinking about just coming off of the hot side of
the starter solenoid. Jon Croke mentioned this switched terminal on the
regulator. Seems like that could just be a wire from the master switch
controlled buss to the regulator.
This seems like another area where ZAC could provide people a simple
reference diagram of a Rotax basic equipped airplane. Anybody have one of
those they would like to share with us?
Regards,
Walt Cannon
Seattle, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 S regulator |
Go to Bob Nichols site lots of ideas http://www.aeroelectric.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 912 S regulator
>
> Sounds like a lot of us are at about this same place. I have been
eyeballing
> the schematics for the engine wiring installation in my 701 and was
> wondering about this capacitor. Is it necessary? Any tips on where to get
a
> "high quality" aircraft grade device of this size? Part #s and sources?
> Anybody feel like sharing a picture of a completed installation? Have
people
> used a traditional switched "master solenoid" to activate the buss from
the
> battery hot cable? I was thinking about just coming off of the hot side of
> the starter solenoid. Jon Croke mentioned this switched terminal on the
> regulator. Seems like that could just be a wire from the master switch
> controlled buss to the regulator.
>
> This seems like another area where ZAC could provide people a simple
> reference diagram of a Rotax basic equipped airplane. Anybody have one of
> those they would like to share with us?
>
> Regards,
>
> Walt Cannon
> Seattle, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Which Rivnuts Should I Use? |
I am preparing to follow the advice of several listers and install the skin
over the instruments with Rivnuts, the question is: which ones? I know I
have the option for 6-32, 8-32, and 10-32, also keyed or keyless.
Which size are people using?
Is a key really necessary?
Thanks,
Phil Maxson
601XL, N601MX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Which Rivnuts Should I Use? |
In a message dated 4/26/2003 5:44:08 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> I am preparing to follow the advice of several listers and install the skin
>
> over the instruments with Rivnuts, the question is: which ones? I know I
> have the option for 6-32, 8-32, and 10-32, also keyed or keyless.
>
> Which size are people using?
>
> Is a key really necessary?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil Maxson
>
I have used hundreds of rivnuts in places where I do not want to drill out
rivets for inspections. I used the steel 8/32" ones. You can get them at AS&S
or any NAPA store. The trick is to bore the .250" hole for them as perfect as
possible. That gives the maximun clamping area to the shoulder of the nuts to
grip too. I have not had even one attempt to come loose on me so I am a happy
user of them.
Ben Haas N801BH. Jackson Hole Wy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | 701 cowl question |
Does anyone happen to know off-hand what type of glass and how may plies
are typical for a layup on a 701 cowl? I measured a stock Zenith cowl
and got a thickness of around .075 including fibreglass and gelcoat. It
looks to me like it may be the cheaper E glass. I am thinking about
using a 5 ply lay-up of the stronger S glass. Currently building a plug
around the engine (sealed in plastic and duct tape & mounted on the
firewall) so that I can pull a mold. Already looking like it should be a
lot cleaner than the boxy factory produced cowl (& the workmanship will
most definitely be better). I did check with SkyShop and their new cowl
design will not be out until around Sept.. Any thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 701 cowl question |
In a message dated 4/26/2003 5:45:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
mike.sinclair(at)att.net writes:
>
> Does anyone happen to know off-hand what type of glass and how may plies
> are typical for a layup on a 701 cowl? I measured a stock Zenith cowl
> and got a thickness of around .075 including fibreglass and gelcoat. It
> looks to me like it may be the cheaper E glass. I am thinking about
> using a 5 ply lay-up of the stronger S glass. Currently building a plug
> around the engine (sealed in plastic and duct tape & mounted on the
> firewall) so that I can pull a mold. Already looking like it should be a
> lot cleaner than the boxy factory produced cowl (& the workmanship will
> most definitely be better). I did check with SkyShop and their new cowl
> design will not be out until around Sept.. Any thoughts?
>
>
My hats off to ya. Building a good plug is a LOT of work. I just bought a
Skyshop cowling last week for my 801. I will look close at it tomorrow and
post the details of the lay up.
Ben Haas N801BH. Jackson Hole Wy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Kramer" <edair701(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Which Rivnuts Should I Use? |
Phil,
My choice of rivnuts would be 8-32. Reason being 6-32's are not
considered structural, and if the hole becomes elongated you can always go
to 10-32. I like to start out as small as possible so you always have the
option to go larger if necessary. I think keyless are more common.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701(at)adelphia.net
_____
>
>
> I am preparing to follow the advice of several listers and install the
skin
> over the instruments with Rivnuts, the question is: which ones? I know I
> have the option for 6-32, 8-32, and 10-32, also keyed or keyless.
>
> Which size are people using?
>
> Is a key really necessary?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil Maxson
> 601XL, N601MX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JNBOLDING1" <JNBOLDING1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 cowl question |
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Benford2(at)aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:11:22 EDT
>> Does anyone happen to know off-hand what type of glass and how may plies
>> are typical for a layup on a 701 cowl? I measured a stock Zenith cowl
>> and got a thickness of around .075 including fibreglass and gelcoat. It
>> looks to me like it may be the cheaper E glass. I am thinking about
>> using a 5 ply lay-up of the stronger S glass. Currently building a plug
>> around the engine (sealed in plastic and duct tape & mounted on the
>> firewall) so that I can pull a mold. Already looking like it should be a
>> lot cleaner than the boxy factory produced cowl (& the workmanship will
>> most definitely be better). I did check with SkyShop and their new cowl
>> design will not be out until around Sept.. Any thoughts?
Mike The Coot Amphibian of many yrs ago had 5 layers of 181 for the HULL so 5
for a cowling is surly overkill 3 will do nicely where there is some shape (curve)
and you can add some strips of 1/4 or 3/8 foam where things are flat for
stiffeners .LOW&SLOW John Bolding
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY BOHANNON" <lbohannon1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 701 wing tank wiring |
I'm installing my wing tank on a 701 and I'm not real sure about wiring and grounding
and ohms, etc. I tested the ohms on the sender and it was 13.9 on empty
and 180.1 on full. Suppose to be 10 empty and 180 full. Is this close enough?
If not, how would I correct it?
Also I'm not sure about the proper wiring.Would this be correct? A postive wire
from center post on sender back to fuel gauge and a negative wire from side post
on sender back to fuel gauge.Then just a ground wire from tab welded on side
of tank to airframe ground. Is this correct? I wrote ZAC and got an answer
back but it wasn't very clear and he also wrote incorrectly that the ohms should
be 10 for full and 180 for empty so that wasn't much help.
Larry Bohannon
701
Winder, Georgia
tail finished,working on right wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Kramer" <edair701(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing tank wiring |
>
> I'm installing my wing tank on a 701 and I'm not real sure about wiring
and grounding and ohms, etc. I tested the ohms on the sender and it was 13.9
on empty and 180.1 on full. Suppose to be 10 empty and 180 full. Is this
close enough? If not, how would I correct it?
> Also I'm not sure about the proper wiring.Would this be correct? A
positive
wire from center post on sender back to fuel gauge and a negative wire from
side post on sender back to fuel gauge.Then just a ground wire from tab
welded on side of tank to airframe ground. Is this correct? I wrote ZAC and
got an answer back but it wasn't very clear and he also wrote incorrectly
that the ohms should be 10 for full and 180 for empty so that wasn't much
help.
>
> Larry Bohannon
> 701
> Winder, Georgia
> tail finished,working on right wing
Larry,
I don't think that little bit of difference from 10 to 13.9 ohms will
make a difference, fuel gauges are only so accurate. What I've found when
testing the ohms for full & empty is the top of the tank oil cans and can
change the reading drastically. The top skin on my tank can easily be pushed
downward & upward about an inch changing the ohm readings.
The center post wire on the sender connects to the "S" on the fuel
gauge, from the ground post on the sender to the airframe, then ground the
gauge to the airframe. The plus side of the gauge connects to a power
source.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701: Completed rudder, left wing, working on right wing.
edair701(at)adelphia.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EGT and CHT Range |
Hi list,
I am looking to set up the warning parameters on my engine instrument monitor
and it requests settings for max temp on EGT and CHT. My engine manufacturer
(stratus) does not list these numbers in my manual. Nac any provide temps
for what I should set my EIS to for the warning module?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Steve Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "royt.or" <royt.or(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2003 |
Hi,
N601RT, the CH601HDS I've been building for the past 7.5 years received it's airworthiness
certificate on Sunday, 4/27/03. So, the plane is ready to fly!
No, I don't know when I will fly it. Probably soon, as in the next couple of weeks.
Regards,
Roy
(Plans/serial # 63314, CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Rotax radiator in cowl,
All electric IFR, leather seats by Oregon Aero, no exterior paint [yet], 660lbs
empty weight. Based at HIO, Hillsboro Oregon. I'll post more info and pictures
soon.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Which Rivnuts Should I Use? |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com> |
Locking nutplates, riveted in place, are more secure than rivnuts; they can be
replaced as necessary. There may well be some strong and secure rivnuts, but I
haven't tested any.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood(at)uvm.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate |
4/27/2003
Best of luck, hope everything goes well on first flight.
>
>Hi,
>
>
>N601RT, the CH601HDS I've been building for the past 7.5 years
>received it's airworthiness certificate on Sunday, 4/27/03. So, the
>plane is ready to fly!
>
>
>No, I don't know when I will fly it. Probably soon, as in the next
>couple of weeks.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Roy
--
Mark Wood
Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
University of Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 |
003
Good Job Roy,
I'm based in corvallis, I would love to check out your plane sometime.
Frank
601HDS Stratus (Very different heads) 281 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: royt.or [mailto:royt.or(at)netzero.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2003
Hi,
N601RT, the CH601HDS I've been building for the past 7.5 years received it's
airworthiness certificate on Sunday, 4/27/03. So, the plane is ready to fly!
No, I don't know when I will fly it. Probably soon, as in the next couple of
weeks.
Regards,
Roy
(Plans/serial # 63314, CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Rotax radiator in
cowl, All electric IFR, leather seats by Oregon Aero, no exterior paint
[yet], 660lbs empty weight. Based at HIO, Hillsboro Oregon. I'll post more
info and pictures soon.)
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com> |
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 |
003
N601RT, the CH601HDS I've been building for the past 7.5 years received it's
airworthiness certificate on Sunday, 4/27/03. So, the plane is ready to fly!
Way to go Roy !! Congratulations !!
Rick XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 |
004
Congratulations Roy,
I will like to give you an advice, I dont know how much flying have you
done in this 7.5 years, but as most builders (including me of course)
we prefer to spend time building than flying to get the plane finished
soon...
PLEASE "build" some flying hours before atempting to fly your plane, if
possibe get some hours in another HDS...
If this does not aplies to you, go on and enjoy your plane as soon as
possible.
Saludos
Gary Gower
PS, Frank, we all greatly will apprecite any hints you can give him...
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" wrote:
>
>
> Good Job Roy,
>
> I'm based in corvallis, I would love to check out your plane
> sometime.
>
> Frank
> 601HDS Stratus (Very different heads) 281 hours
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: royt.or [mailto:royt.or(at)netzero.net]
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate
> 4/27/2003
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> N601RT, the CH601HDS I've been building for the past 7.5 years
> received it's
> airworthiness certificate on Sunday, 4/27/03. So, the plane is ready
> to fly!
>
>
> No, I don't know when I will fly it. Probably soon, as in the next
> couple of
> weeks.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Roy
>
>
> (Plans/serial # 63314, CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Rotax
> radiator in
> cowl, All electric IFR, leather seats by Oregon Aero, no exterior
> paint
> [yet], 660lbs empty weight. Based at HIO, Hillsboro Oregon. I'll post
> more
> info and pictures soon.)
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61(at)birch.net> |
Roy, (and others that will coming up to the "first flight")
First off, congratulations! It's quite a feeling to have made it this far.
I have some advice to share with you. It was very valuable to me, and I got
it from Jeff Small. In the days before your first flight, sit there in your
aircraft and "fly the flight in your mind" over and over again. Put your
hands on the controls, talk out loud to your self as you visualize and do
everything you will be doing from take-off to touchdown. Actually do every
function with the controls it will take to go through every step you intend
to accomplish on that flight. Do it again and again and again and again. On
the day of your first flight, you will be amazed how it will progress
smoothly from one thing to another because the flight is mentally embedded,
and will fall in place as sort of an automatic procedure. When I broke
ground in my HDS and discovered it was in trim and so easy to fly, the
apprehension just melted away and I had a really enjoyable first flight. My
ground crew couldn't believe I was so seemingly at ease as I joked with them
from up there. Jeff had kidded with me, asking if I was going to call him on
my cell phone during the flight. My wife couldn't believe it when I radio'd
down and asked her if I should call Jeff. In an obviously nervous voice,
she said, "NO, just fly the airplane!" Apparently she didn't see the humor
in my question........
Smooooooth flight to ya Roy.
Fred Hulen
3300 601HDS N601LX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 |
004
Hmm.. There's a thought..
I'm just about to rebuild my carbs, should be flying again sometime this
week. If you can wait to say the back end of next week I would be happy to
give you some stick time from the right seat...It would be from the left
seat but I mangaed to crash a C152 that way so its not an experience I wish
to repeat....:)
I had not flown anything for 4 months and only then high wings with a
control wheel. I found it a pretty easy transition...keep some power on for
the landing and aim for an approach of about 80mph.
Let me know if I can help.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Gower [mailto:ggower_99(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2
004
Congratulations Roy,
I will like to give you an advice, I dont know how much flying have you done
in this 7.5 years, but as most builders (including me of course) we prefer
to spend time building than flying to get the plane finished soon...
PLEASE "build" some flying hours before atempting to fly your plane, if
possibe get some hours in another HDS...
If this does not aplies to you, go on and enjoy your plane as soon as
possible.
Saludos
Gary Gower
PS, Frank, we all greatly will apprecite any hints you can give him...
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" wrote:
>
>
> Good Job Roy,
>
> I'm based in corvallis, I would love to check out your plane sometime.
>
> Frank
> 601HDS Stratus (Very different heads) 281 hours
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: royt.or [mailto:royt.or(at)netzero.net]
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate
> 4/27/2003
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> N601RT, the CH601HDS I've been building for the past 7.5 years
> received it's airworthiness certificate on Sunday, 4/27/03. So, the
> plane is ready to fly!
>
>
> No, I don't know when I will fly it. Probably soon, as in the next
> couple of weeks.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Roy
>
>
> (Plans/serial # 63314, CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Rotax
> radiator in cowl, All electric IFR, leather seats by Oregon Aero, no
> exterior paint
> [yet], 660lbs empty weight. Based at HIO, Hillsboro Oregon. I'll post
> more
> info and pictures soon.)
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Construction Update |
To the List:
I have made some progress on my tail section and if anyone is interested in
seeing it, I posted some photos of my latest efforts:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Stabilizer.html
I didn't get as far as I wanted but there's always the chance to stay up
late and forfeit some more sleep this week.
Take care,
Scott Laughlin
601XL
Omaha, NE
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2003 |
Get some transition training in some one else's Zenith so you know what to
expect and how to handle it.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "royt.or" <royt.or(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2003
>
> Hi,
>
>
> N601RT, the CH601HDS I've been building for the past 7.5 years received
it's airworthiness certificate on Sunday, 4/27/03. So, the plane is ready to
fly!
>
>
> No, I don't know when I will fly it. Probably soon, as in the next couple
of weeks.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Roy
>
>
> (Plans/serial # 63314, CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Rotax radiator
in cowl, All electric IFR, leather seats by Oregon Aero, no exterior paint
[yet], 660lbs empty weight. Based at HIO, Hillsboro Oregon. I'll post more
info and pictures soon.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Wingtip Tips? -- thank you |
Hi Neil,
Hey guy I'm new to the list and building a 701, finished the tail section and
now on the wings, I kind of like the idea of a fiberglass wing tip is yours
for a 601 or 701? Are they compatible for both aircraft? Did you make them
or were they bought? If so from whom? Thanks
Roger Roy
CH-701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 |
004
>PLEASE "build" some flying hours before atempting to fly your plane, if
>possibe get some hours in another HDS...
Gary is very right about this. Get some time in another CH601. If you
can't find one nearby, you might look for a flight school with a CH2000.
The CH2000 does fly very simular, certainly more so than any Cessna or
Piper.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Solid Flush Rivets |
Listers, I'm asking this question to see the response from your combined
Grey matter.
I have a good Friend starting to build a 601XL, and try as I might I cannot
convince him to go pulled rivet ! ( I really didn't try to hard, after all,
it is his sanity !)
It is his dearest wish to build his Zodie Rocket with smooth skins, so
further be it for me to try and persuade him. I can remember a few years ago
a builder had in fact completed a 601 with flush pounding but I can no
longer remember his name. SO I leave it up to you all to help me (him) ! How
can a person pound a whole 601XL and yet still have inspections? How can you
close a rudder? Is there ANY chance of preserving SANITY!!!! Speak Out and
let yourself be heard. One of our flock has lost his way, we must lead him
to a pasture of his dreams or corral him amongst us in silent lucidity.
Mark Townsend
601XL EA82 MPFI Turbo
Alma, Ont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JNBOLDING1" <JNBOLDING1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
>Listers, I'm asking this question to see the response from your combined
>Grey matter.
>I have a good Friend starting to build a 601XL, and try as I might I cannot
>convince him to go pulled rivet ! ( I really didn't try to hard, after all,
>it is his sanity !)
>It is his dearest wish to build his Zodie Rocket with smooth skins, so
>further be it for me to try and persuade him. I can remember a few years ago
>a builder had in fact completed a 601 with flush pounding but I can no
>longer remember his name. SO I leave it up to you all to help me (him) ! How
>can a person pound a whole 601XL and yet still have inspections? How can you
>close a rudder? Is there ANY chance of preserving SANITY!!!! Speak Out and
>let yourself be heard. One of our flock has lost his way, we must lead him
>to a pasture of his dreams or corral him amongst us in silent lucidity.
>
>Mark Townsend
>601XL EA82 MPFI Turbo
>Alma, Ont.
>
The fellow will have several HUNDRED dollars in his pocket left over for gas in
his smooth skin Zodie. My 701 is being built with solid rivets as was my RV3.
Boeing likes driven rivets a lot. There are advantages to each for sure. To
each his own that's why it's called "Experimental" LOW&SLOW John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wing splice plate hole tollerances |
| From: | "Mark Sandidge" <MSandidge(at)peabodyenergy.com> |
04/29/2003 03:02:38 AM
I have drilled my wing splice plates for 601HDS and the bolts do not seem
to fit very tight. I used bit sizes and reamers recommended by Zac and a
home made drill guide. I used the reamer in a variable speed hand drill
turning very low rpm. I thought my techinque might be a bit sloppy so I
drilled/reamed some scrap pieces the same thickness using a drill press.
The bolts still slide easily into the hole. Want to make sure I get these
right. What have most of you experienced?
Thanks
Mark Sandidge
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 |
004
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
04/29/2003 06:22:07 AM
The flight school where I hanger my Cessna rents a Diamond Eclipse. Does
anyone know if they have similar flight characteristics to the 601 XL. I
was considering getting some air time if it does. The envelope is similar
and I think it uses the Continental 240 engine, I'm going with a Lycoming
235.
Craig
"Philip Polstra"
To:
Sent by: cc:
owner-zenith-list-server@ma Subject: RE: Zenith-List:
N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 004
tronics.com
04/28/03 09:16 PM
Please respond to
zenith-list
>PLEASE "build" some flying hours before atempting to fly your plane, if
>possibe get some hours in another HDS...
Gary is very right about this. Get some time in another CH601. If you
can't find one nearby, you might look for a flight school with a CH2000.
The CH2000 does fly very simular, certainly more so than any Cessna or
Piper.
---
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Kramer" <edair701(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
>
> Listers, I'm asking this question to see the response from your combined
> Grey matter.
> I have a good Friend starting to build a 601XL, and try as I might I
cannot
> convince him to go pulled rivet ! ( I really didn't try to hard, after
all,
> it is his sanity !)
> It is his dearest wish to build his Zodie Rocket with smooth skins, so
> further be it for me to try and persuade him. I can remember a few years
ago
> a builder had in fact completed a 601 with flush pounding but I can no
> longer remember his name. SO I leave it up to you all to help me (him) !
How
> can a person pound a whole 601XL and yet still have inspections? How can
you
> close a rudder? Is there ANY chance of preserving SANITY!!!! Speak Out and
> let yourself be heard. One of our flock has lost his way, we must lead him
> to a pasture of his dreams or corral him amongst us in silent lucidity.
>
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EA82 MPFI Turbo
> Alma, Ont.
Mark,
One problem that is sure to arise is the fact that this design was not
intended for bucked rivets, so many of the rivets will not be accessible for
a bucking bar. If flush rivets are a must, use flush pulled rivets and save
the headaches.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701: rudder & left wing complete
edair701(at)adelphia.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dan john <ballmell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
My younger brother has scratch built two CH701`s and
he used driven rivets on both.Their are several areas
that cannot be closed with AN rivets so pulled are
needed than.His attitude was that this is supposed to
be fun,so the extra time required did`nt really
matter.He found several rivet suppliers at Oshkosh and
saved several hundred dollars.I don`t think thats
crazy at all.AN`s are much stronger than pulled.John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 |
004
Don't know for sure but looking at one and talking to a friend that owns the
Diamond I would say its very doubtful.
The Diamond is basically a motorglider with a long slender wing with I
believe impressive glide ratio.(if you like that sort of thing)...Zenairs
drop like a rock when you cut the power!
Having said that I went from a C152 to a 601HDS with no trouble and no
training.
Not saying you should do the same but I found the zodiac very easy to fly.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: caspainhower(at)aep.com [mailto:caspainhower(at)aep.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2
004
The flight school where I hanger my Cessna rents a Diamond Eclipse. Does
anyone know if they have similar flight characteristics to the 601 XL. I
was considering getting some air time if it does. The envelope is similar
and I think it uses the Continental 240 engine, I'm going with a Lycoming
235.
Craig
"Philip Polstra"
To:
Sent by: cc:
owner-zenith-list-server@ma Subject: RE:
Zenith-List: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 004
tronics.com
04/28/03 09:16 PM
Please respond to
zenith-list
>PLEASE "build" some flying hours before atempting to fly your plane, if
>possibe get some hours in another HDS...
Gary is very right about this. Get some time in another CH601. If you
can't find one nearby, you might look for a flight school with a CH2000. The
CH2000 does fly very simular, certainly more so than any Cessna or Piper.
---
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear
Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Kit on Ebay |
Hi guys:
If there's anyone out there looking to get a rudder kit cheap, I saw two at
Ebay in Arizona for $50 right now with two days to go. The 601 is at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2412300902&category=26439
If the link doesn't work, it's Item # 2412300902.
The same guy has a 701 rudder kit for $150 right now. You might want to
cantact him to make sure it's what you are looking for:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2412301309&category=26438
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, NE
www.cooknwithgas.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Solid Flush Rivets |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
>> He found several [solid] rivet suppliers at Oshkosh and saved several
hundred dollars [over Avex rivets].
On the flip side, if you don't have the rivet gun, various bucking bars,
various rivet heads, dimple dies, and so on, the extra cost of getting
the equipment will most likely outweigh any savings over the Avex rivet
cost. And since there are still some locations that require the Avex
rivets, you still have to spend money for the pop rivet equipment and
Avex rivets (although relatively small).
Not trying to say that solid rivets are 'bad' and shouldn't be used,
just don't think that for a builder with no existing tools saying it
will be cheaper is a bit misleading.
With that said, I went ahead and purchased all the fun tools so I can
learn the process and for a few areas I have used solid rivets. My goal
though, has always been to learn as much as possible and the designer's
goal was to make an airplane that if wanted could be built without
investing a lot of money for tools. However, I like tools as much as
airplanes (don't tell my wife - smile) so the extra expense didn't
bother me.
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: dan john [mailto:ballmell(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid Flush Rivets
My younger brother has scratch built two CH701`s and
he used driven rivets on both.Their are several areas
that cannot be closed with AN rivets so pulled are
needed than.His attitude was that this is supposed to
be fun,so the extra time required did`nt really
matter.He found several rivet suppliers at Oshkosh and
saved several hundred dollars.I don`t think thats
crazy at all.AN`s are much stronger than pulled.John
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
| From: | wizard-24(at)juno.com |
> It is his dearest wish to build his Zodie Rocket with smooth skins,
> so further be it for me to try and persuade him.
If someone insisted on solid rivets, and that was important to them, why
in the world would that person choose a Zodiac to build? Your friend is a
prime candidate for an RV, which is a far better plane if you don't mind
spending countless hours bucking rivets. I'll probably get flamed for
this, but the RV performs better, looks better, and has a MUCH higher
resale value. And, with the exception of having to use a larger engine,
the costs are about the same.
The deciding factor to build a Zodiac ought to be simplicity, ease of
building, and quicker build times. In my opinion, using solid rivets in a
Zodiac is like putting lipstick on a pig. The Zodie is structurally sound
as designed, and the solid rivets are not likely to increase performance
by any measurable amount. And in fact, I'm thinking it may not look all
that much better either, given the thin AL skins used on our planes.
Bucking rivets without denting will be a mighty tricky endeavor.
Mike
XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
Well, I know you know you were asking for it, so I will give you a little.
Your comparisons are mostly fair until you get to the lipstick on a pig. lol
Now I will agree that the tricycle gear is not that aesthetically pleasing,
but my little tail dragger HDS gets as much if not more ooohhhs and ahhhs
than the RVs at most of the fly-ins. It darn sure carries more, and climbing
at 1700 fpm on a cool day compares pretty favorably with many of the RV's.
Of course it is slower, and I would trade easily for an RV 6 or 7, but
"PIG":
Speak for your own bird!! Mine is a cutie. If you are doubtful I'll send you
a pic. Don W
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid Flush Rivets
>
>
> > It is his dearest wish to build his Zodie Rocket with smooth skins,
> > so further be it for me to try and persuade him.
>
> If someone insisted on solid rivets, and that was important to them, why
> in the world would that person choose a Zodiac to build? Your friend is a
> prime candidate for an RV, which is a far better plane if you don't mind
> spending countless hours bucking rivets. I'll probably get flamed for
> this, but the RV performs better, looks better, and has a MUCH higher
> resale value. And, with the exception of having to use a larger engine,
> the costs are about the same.
>
> The deciding factor to build a Zodiac ought to be simplicity, ease of
> building, and quicker build times. In my opinion, using solid rivets in a
> Zodiac is like putting lipstick on a pig. The Zodie is structurally sound
> as designed, and the solid rivets are not likely to increase performance
> by any measurable amount. And in fact, I'm thinking it may not look all
> that much better either, given the thin AL skins used on our planes.
> Bucking rivets without denting will be a mighty tricky endeavor.
>
> Mike
> XL
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Solid Flush Rivets |
> I'll probably get flamed for
> this, but the RV performs better, looks better, and has a MUCH higher
> resale value. And, with the exception of having to use a larger engine,
> the costs are about the same.
It depends on your criteria for performance. The Zodiac can actually carry
a load, the RV cannot. I have a 685 lb. useful load on my bird. The RV has
a higher resale because it is MUCH more expensive to build. Even if you
discount the labor difference, the kit cost more, it requires more tools,
and the engine required is going to cost allot more. If you just want the
top speed, the RV is the way to go, but it is not as efficient. I might go
20% slower, but I can actually take baggage on a trip, and burn less than
half the gas. The Zodiac is also bigger inside. It's all a matter of what
works best for the type of flying you like to do.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
Hi Mark,
You might tell him to up the thickness on every sheet involved, because the
RVs and
others that do solid rivets will have more metal to pound on than what this
very light
aircraft has. I doubt that .016 and .020 will hold up to the hammering and
will
end up looking little more like a bunch of inneys and outtey belly buttons
without
extreme care. Much smaller rivets and perhaps another 2 years to do it.
That's why I didn't like the RVs. Too heavy for the serious scratch
builder.
Just my 2 cents.
Larry McFarland - 601hds
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Solid Flush Rivets
>
> Listers, I'm asking this question to see the response from your combined
> Grey matter.
> I have a good Friend starting to build a 601XL, and try as I might I
cannot
> convince him to go pulled rivet ! ( I really didn't try to hard, after
all,
> it is his sanity !)
> It is his dearest wish to build his Zodie Rocket with smooth skins, so
> further be it for me to try and persuade him. I can remember a few years
ago
> a builder had in fact completed a 601 with flush pounding but I can no
> longer remember his name. SO I leave it up to you all to help me (him) !
How
> can a person pound a whole 601XL and yet still have inspections? How can
you
> close a rudder? Is there ANY chance of preserving SANITY!!!! Speak Out and
> let yourself be heard. One of our flock has lost his way, we must lead him
> to a pasture of his dreams or corral him amongst us in silent lucidity.
>
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EA82 MPFI Turbo
> Alma, Ont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne F.Wilson" <wfwilson1(at)yahoo.ca> |
Test posting
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N601RT received Airworthiness Certificate 4/27/2 004 |
In a message dated 4/29/2003 6:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
caspainhower(at)aep.com writes:
> The flight school where I hanger my Cessna rents a Diamond Eclipse. Does
> anyone know if they have similar flight characteristics to the 601 XL. I
> was considering getting some air time if it does. The envelope is similar
> and I think it uses the Continental 240 engine, I'm going with a Lycoming
> 235.
>
> Craig
>
Hi Craig,
I flew a Katana for about ten hours just before flying my 601HDS. It is
configured, feels , and flies just like the Zodiac.
I would definetely get some time in the Eclipse. It will definitely prepair
you for the first flights.
Good luck,
=20=A0 |
=A0 =A0=20___|___
John W. Tarabocchia /=A0=20=A0=A0 \
(407) 709-7255 =A0 (_______ )
=A0 ___________________________ |=A0 o=A0 |___________________________
=A0 *\____________________|______ \ ______ /______|____________________/*
=A0 ][=A0=20=A0 ][=A0=A0 ][
=A0 =A0 {_}=A0=20=A0 {_}=A0=A0 {_}
http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder
=20
N6042T 90hrs Flown.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | angle aluminum supplier - 701, plans |
| From: | "Doug Mendonca" <doug(at)photorola.com> |
Hi builders - slogged through the archives, but didn't find an answer
for this - I'm building a 701 from plans:
Does anyone have a name/number for a company that supplies 3/4" x 3/4" x
.093 angle aluminum?
I've called several places with no luck - part of the problem may be
that I've been referring to it as ".093" where I should have said "3/32"
- three thirty-seconds is probably a more common reference when speaking
to a phone-order-taker.
I initially contacted ZAC who said that I could substitute the 1/8"
thick stuff, but I want to stick to the plans, keep it light, and don't
want the fillet and rounded corners that you get with 1/8" (at least
from aircraft-spruce). In context, I was asking about the rudder, so ZAC
may have assumed I was *only* talking about the rudder. Has anyone used
3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 angle for their entire plane? Anyone calculated the
weight difference?
ZAC wants $3.80/ft. for the .093 - an amazingly high price for this
material, considering one can get 1/8" thick almost anywhere for less
than half that price.
Thanks a-plenty,
-doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: angle aluminum supplier - 701, plans |
Hi Doug
I have a sneaky suspicion that ZAC has a special order for the .093
extruded. I went with the .125 for all Longerons in my 601XL even the .40
are now .125 extruded. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing that, but I'm
hanging a heavy engine and want the weight to be carried through the whole
plane.
Mark Townsend
601XL EA82 MPFI Turbo
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Mendonca <doug(at)photorola.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 10:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: angle aluminum supplier - 701, plans
>
>
>Hi builders - slogged through the archives, but didn't find an answer
>for this - I'm building a 701 from plans:
>
>Does anyone have a name/number for a company that supplies 3/4" x 3/4" x
>.093 angle aluminum?
>
>I've called several places with no luck - part of the problem may be
>that I've been referring to it as ".093" where I should have said "3/32"
>- three thirty-seconds is probably a more common reference when speaking
>to a phone-order-taker.
>
>I initially contacted ZAC who said that I could substitute the 1/8"
>thick stuff, but I want to stick to the plans, keep it light, and don't
>want the fillet and rounded corners that you get with 1/8" (at least
>from aircraft-spruce). In context, I was asking about the rudder, so ZAC
>may have assumed I was *only* talking about the rudder. Has anyone used
>3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 angle for their entire plane? Anyone calculated the
>weight difference?
>
>ZAC wants $3.80/ft. for the .093 - an amazingly high price for this
>material, considering one can get 1/8" thick almost anywhere for less
>than half that price.
>
>Thanks a-plenty,
>
>-doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Herndon <rickherndon(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Zenith Super Zodiac CH 601 HDS First Flight |
Just wanted to let you know that N601DH made it's maiden flight at 9:30
this morning from Warrenton-Fauquire County Airport (W66). The flight
was both exhilarating and uneventful. I don't have much performance
data to report but was extremely pleased with stability and handling
characteristics. Controllability was excellent for the shallow 20 degree
banking turns and gentle climbs and descents. She flew straight and
level with no heavy wing tendency. Air temperature for the flight was
about 65 degrees. Oil temp stayed around 190-200 and water temp around
220. When I checked max static rpm a few days ago the oil temp
approached 280 - close to red line! Air temp was in the upper 70s. Oil
cooler is mounted below Rotax gearbox and water radiator is mounted
under fuselage per Zac design.
Prior to landing, I did a couple of slow flights to around 65 mph.
Didn't experience any buffeting or excessive mushiness. Flew approach
to landing around 80 -85 mph. Landing declared successful when aircraft
rolled away from impact area under its own power!
Aircraft info: CH 601 HDS, forward tilt canopy, Rotax 912 ULS, Warp
Drive 3 blade 70" dia prop, 12 degree pitch measured at tip, Max static
RPM - 5,300. Empty weight, 605 lbs. Flight weight 818 lbs. CG 12.6".
Header tank (16 gal) and Baggage locker wing tanks (7.5 gal ea.)
Will post more info as I collect data!
Rick Herndon
CH 601 HDS
N601DH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: "JNBOLDING1" <JNBOLDING1(at)mail.ev1.net>
> Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:39:13 -0500
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid Flush Rivets
>
> The fellow will have several HUNDRED dollars in his pocket left over for gas
> in his smooth skin Zodie.
How do you figure this? Surely not due to drag reduction? The difference
will be barely measurable.
fwiw, imho
Grant C.
601HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JNBOLDING1" <JNBOLDING1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:48:34 -0400
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solid Flush Rivets
>>
>> The fellow will have several HUNDRED dollars in his pocket left over for gas
>> in his smooth skin Zodie.
>
>How do you figure this? Surely not due to drag reduction? The difference
>will be barely measurable.
>
>fwiw, imho
>
>Grant C.
>601HDS
>
>NEWish !!
i assumed from the post that we were talking scratch building where you weren't
tied to what came in the kit. If so then purchase price of the rivets to build
an airplane will amount to "SEVERAL HUNDRED" dollas when comparing Avex to solid.
It could be argued that you have to have a compressor and rivet gun and
bucking bars but you only need 1/4 hp worth of compressor and used gun set up
could be bought and resold when finished.
This is kinda like argueing about Fords and Chevys. Both rivet systems work.
LOW&SLOW John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | g t <wauwis2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith Super Zodiac CH 601 HDS First Flight |
Congratulations Rick, I look forward to the day of excitement you just experienced.
You have every right to be excited, and proud of your accomplishment. TomStill
dreaming of building more the the rudder of the 701.
Herndon
Just wanted to let you know that N601DH made it's maiden flight at 9:30
this morning from Warrenton-Fauquire County Airport (W66). The flight
was both exhilarating and uneventful. I don't have much performance
data to report but was extremely pleased with stability and handling
characteristics. Controllability was excellent for the shallow 20 degree
banking turns and gentle climbs and descents. She flew straight and
level with no heavy wing tendency. Air temperature for the flight was
about 65 degrees. Oil temp stayed around 190-200 and water temp around
220. When I checked max static rpm a few days ago the oil temp
approached 280 - close to red line! Air temp was in the upper 70s. Oil
cooler is mounted below Rotax gearbox and water radiator is mounted
under fuselage per Zac design.
Prior to landing, I did a couple of slow flights to around 65 mph.
Didn't experience any buffeting or excessive mushiness. Flew approach
to landing around 80 -85 mph. Landing declared successful when aircraft
rolled away from impact area under its own power!
Aircraft info: CH 601 HDS, forward tilt canopy, Rotax 912 ULS, Warp
Drive 3 blade 70" dia prop, 12 degree pitch measured at tip, Max static
RPM - 5,300. Empty weight, 605 lbs. Flight weight 818 lbs. CG 12.6".
Header tank (16 gal) and Baggage locker wing tanks (7.5 gal ea.)
Will post more info as I collect data!
Rick Herndon
CH 601 HDS
N601DH
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Monty Graves <mgraves(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
First Zenith charges the kit buyers almost exactly what the scratch
builders pay for materials they purchase from Zenith. It is just how
Zenith prices their kits. They price each and every piece in each sub kit
then add up the the prices of all the pieces in that kit assembly. The
scratch builder can purchase any piece of the 601 or 701 for the same cost
as the kit buyer. Or one can make any or all of it themselves, saving
Zeniths overhead, labor costs, and fair profit. In this case if
purchased from Zenith rivets cost both the kit and scratch builder 8.5
cents per blind rivet. The same English made avex rivet can be purchased
in Canada and shipped to the US via UPS for about 3 cents per rivet
depending on the exchange rate at the time. Little over $500 savings for
the rivets. If you order the apox 8000 rivets needed. The phone number is
in the archives.
>
>i assumed from the post that we were talking scratch building where you
weren't tied to what came in the kit. If so then purchase price of the
rivets to build an airplane will amount to "SEVERAL HUNDRED" dollas when
comparing Avex to solid. It could be argued that you have to have a
compressor and rivet gun and bucking bars but you only need 1/4 hp worth of
compressor and used gun set up could be bought and resold when finished.
>
>This is kinda like argueing about Fords and Chevys. Both rivet systems
work. LOW&SLOW John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skydvr" <airplane(at)skydvr.com> |
I am getting close to installing the flap motor but have not been able to find
a vendor for this part,any one know of a vendor that would carry this item at
a good cost
skydvr(at)skydvr.com
Anchorage,Alaska
601-Xl-plans
currently working on the the control hardware
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Monty Graves <mgraves(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | angle aluminum supplier - 701, plans |
701 .093 longerons are only for the tail wheel option.. .040 longerons
for the nose wheel standard version.
Monty
>
>
>Monty - I thought the fuse longerons and braces were all .093 -- guess I
>need to go back and check the plans. The sample materials list shows 4
>20 foot lengths, which (now that I think about it) would only cover the
>spar caps and some brackets, you're right..(I could have *sworn* the
>longers were .093!?)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY BOHANNON" <lbohannon1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 701 wing tank series wiring |
I am wanting to use one of the Engine Management Systems in my 701 like is used
on a lot of ultralights.It has a fuel gauge included in the display.It says if
you have 2 gas tanks you can wire the senders "in series" and it will display
the total fuel of both tanks combined. I would rather use this than the 2 VDO
fuel gauges that were supplied by Zenith.However, as I'm not real bright when
it comes to electrical things, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to wire
this, especially with the grounding to airframe stuff which is confusing me.I
know when wiring stuff like stereo speakers etc. "in series" that you run from
positive(power) to positive on speaker,then the speaker negative to the positive
on next speaker etc. and on and on..
What I need to know is if this will work with the fuel senders on a metal airplane.Would
I just run the negative from one sender to the positive on the next
sender etc.?/ Would I then not need to ground the tank or sender to the airframe?Would
I have to guard against the metal tank touching the airframe any where
or what? Like I said , It's confusing to me with the airframe grounding and
I want to make sure I don't wire up the fuel tanks in some deadly manner.
Anybody know what to do?Help is greatly appreciated as I'm kind of stalled out
on proceeding with work on the wing until I can figure this out.Thanks .
Larry Bohannon
Stol 701 #5040
Winder, Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Frisby" <marslander(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 1/4" poly tubing for brakes |
I'm going to run short of the 1/4" brake tubing supplied in my CH801 kit. I
need to get some more, but I don't know the spec. I assume it's some kind
of "hardware stuff". Does anyone know for sure?
Thanks
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
One of my friend is building a CH-801 and would like
to know if anyone did or intend to put it on floats.
Thanks!
Michel
PS: for the brake tubing, I'm not sure what ZAC
includes with their kits, but the tubing is normally
Nylaflow and NyloSeal can also be used.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 1/4" poly tubing for brakes |
In a message dated 4/30/2003 11:58:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
marslander(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> I'm going to run short of the 1/4" brake tubing supplied in my CH801 kit.
> I
> need to get some more, but I don't know the spec. I assume it's some kind
> of "hardware stuff". Does anyone know for sure?
>
> Thanks
> Jim Frisby
> N801ZA
>
I am running metal lines on mine today so I have tubing left over. Now , let
me see. Someone building Zenith's most expensive plane, living in the oil
rich state of Alaska. Hmm. Must have plenty of money........ I will sell ya
my brake lines for 34.68 a foot, plus shipping and tax. Ha Ha Ha. Jus
kiddin. I will send mine to ya today. Now, git on out there and wrestle a
polar bear....
Ben Haas. N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 801 on floats? |
In a message dated 5/1/2003 4:27:10 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mtherr(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> One of my friend is building a CH-801 and would like
> to know if anyone did or intend to put it on floats.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
I believe Stan Barrett up in Alaska has an 801 on floats...
Ben Haas. N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 1/4" poly tubing for brakes |
>I am running metal lines on mine today so I have tubing left over.
Hey Ben,
How are you attaching the metal lines to the gear? (Pics?)
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 1/4" poly tubing for brakes |
In a message dated 5/1/2003 7:48:32 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
gary(at)liming.org writes:
>
> Hey Ben,
>
> How are you attaching the metal lines to the gear? (Pics?)
>
> Gary
>
>
Duct tape and bailing wire......... Jus Kiddin.
Haiko has done his and it looks great. All he did was bend it to the profile
of the gear and it is spaced 1/2" to the rear. The line is attached to the
brakes and a fitting about 10" in from the cabin sides. The line flexes ever
so slightly just like the gear does. He had a A & P tell him the line would
break if done like that so he went and looked at a Cessna and low and
behold... their's are the same way. I believe he sent me some pics too. If ya
can wait till this weekend I will have some pics too.
Ben { all done firewall rearward and workin on my fire breathing motor}
Haas.N801BH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solid Flush Rivets |
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
05/01/2003 10:21:49 AM
Lipstick on tank or a pig with training wheels, it's all good. The Sonex
was going to be my first project but the low build time and greater speed
and carrying capacity sold me on the XL. I still hope to scratch build a
Sonex after the XL is flying. The detachable wings and VW powerplant will
make it an economical backup VFR plane, and I actually like the looks of
the taildragger version.
Craig
XL tails done! PU wings Friday
"Mark Townsend"
<601xl(at)sympatico.ca> To:
Sent by: cc:
owner-zenith-list-server@ma Subject: Re: Zenith-List:
Solid Flush Rivets
tronics.com
04/30/03 05:51 PM
Please respond to
zenith-list
Guys , THANKS
Lipstick, pigs, tanks, training wheels! It has brought more then one
chuckle
to me this week. Every once in awhile it is good to hear a few rant, and
lighten our days. Now what do you mean by a zodie looks better then a
sonnex? Surely a Sonnex must have some sex appeal?!?
Mark Townsend
601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shay King" <shaking(at)eircom.net> |
| Subject: | fitting wings / 701 |
Dear List,
I'm just about to start fitting the wings to my 701. Reading the construction manual
it looks pretty straightforward.
I just wondered if anyone had any problems doing this?
I've got one piece struts and full length fairings to go over them, did anyone
have problems drilling the holes for the jury struts through the fairings?
Any help appreciated.
Regards,
Shay King.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne F.Wilson" <wfwilson1(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | CH601 HDS for Sale |
Unfortunate job situtation forces sell of CH 601 HDS.
Total time as of April 1/03 is 37 hours and climbing.
Has a Lycoming 0235 118 HP engine. Three blade warp
drive prop (ground adjustable). Panel Mount I Com
ICA-200, King Transponder,ACK Elt, Intercom, Megellan
Skyblazer GPS. VFR-ASI,VSI,ALT, Slip, Panel compass,
tach, volt & oil pressure, oil temp, hobbes fuel
pressure, egt,cht. Mechanical and electric fuel pump,
dual throttles. Two five gal removable fuel tanks in
wing lockers as well as l6 gal header tank. Flip up
forward canopy, cabin heat. Canopy cover and insulated
engine cowl cover with heater. Plane must be sold and
is located in Windsor Ontario across from Detroit MI.
Asking $25,700.00 US funds OBO
Contact Wayne F Wilson EMail wfwilson1(at)yahoo.ca
Pictures available by e mail. Some pictures can be
seen under members planes at www.eaachapter185.ca
Yours truly
Wayne F Wilson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CH601 HDS for Sale |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Wayne,
Looks like a great plane! Sorry to see it on the 'for sale lot'. Out of
curiosity is the Lycoming new or used?
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne F.Wilson [mailto:wfwilson1(at)yahoo.ca]
Subject: Zenith-List: CH601 HDS for Sale
Unfortunate job situtation forces sell of CH 601 HDS.
Total time as of April 1/03 is 37 hours and climbing.
Has a Lycoming 0235 118 HP engine. Three blade warp
drive prop (ground adjustable). Panel Mount I Com
ICA-200, King Transponder,ACK Elt, Intercom, Megellan
Skyblazer GPS. VFR-ASI,VSI,ALT, Slip, Panel compass,
tach, volt & oil pressure, oil temp, hobbes fuel
pressure, egt,cht. Mechanical and electric fuel pump,
dual throttles. Two five gal removable fuel tanks in
wing lockers as well as l6 gal header tank. Flip up
forward canopy, cabin heat. Canopy cover and insulated
engine cowl cover with heater. Plane must be sold and
is located in Windsor Ontario across from Detroit MI.
Asking $25,700.00 US funds OBO
Contact Wayne F Wilson EMail wfwilson1(at)yahoo.ca
Pictures available by e mail. Some pictures can be
seen under members planes at www.eaachapter185.ca
Yours truly
Wayne F Wilson
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fitting wings / 701 |
Shay - The wing attachments are fairly straightforward. The forward tab fits
in the frame slot and the rearward wing tab goes in front of the frame tab.
Once these are clamped the wing can be raised and lowered until correct tip
heighth is achieved. Ive completed my jury struts and it wasn't difficult to
drill through the steel main struts but I don' t have fairings. Where did you
get those strut fairings anyway? Chip Muldoon doon47(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Landing light location |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com> |
Mine is in the right wing-root outside the prop arc.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne F.Wilson" <wfwilson1(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | CH 601 HDS For Sale |
I receive my list in Digest form. When I respond to a
questions the Email just goes to the E mail address I
click. If I hit reply it wants to send back the
complete file. How do I reply to person asking the
question and yet have the response posted so it looks
like a forward with the < sign.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Much
Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Email reply to digest posts |
Wayne, this has to be done manually:
First hit "reply", and the whole digest mail is copied and preceded by ">" (if
your
email application is so configured).
Next, copy the email address from the text (select the address and press "ctrl"
and
"c". For example, your address is quoted below, between < and >).
Then, position the cursor in the "To:" field of your email application. Paste the
email address by pressing "ctrl" and "v".
Finaly, cleanup the body of the email, leaving only the pertinent parts for
reference in your reply.
[I am assuming you are running Windows]
Carlos
--- "Wayne F.Wilson" wrote:
>
> I receive my list in Digest form. When I respond to a
> questions the Email just goes to the E mail address I
> click. If I hit reply it wants to send back the
> complete file. How do I reply to person asking the
> question and yet have the response posted so it looks
> like a forward with the < sign.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks Much
> Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Stabilizer Skin Bending |
Listers:
I know many of you are past this stage, but if you are plans-building and
have not bent your stabilizer skin, I want to report that the ZAC drawing
suggestion of making a plywood section with a 24mm spacer and pressing down
on the sheet works GREAT! It takes two people and some care, but I was
surprised at the results. I did it last night and ended up with an
excellent bend with no wrinkles.
I found out this is new to the drawings (6T2-4) so if you have an old set,
you may want to drop me a line and I'll explain how to do it. I have been
looking at Zodiac builder photos on web sites for months and I don't
remember seeing mention of this method.
You can see the board I built on my website under "Stabilizer Construction."
Better yet, clicky:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_01_03Bentskin2.jpg
You can see the board on the left and the skin clamped and bent on the
right. The spacer is the length of the board and is 24mm thick.
My hat's off to the Zenith guys for coming up with this time-saving trick.
Take care,
Scott Laughlin
601XL Plans
http://www.cooknwithgas.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron DeWees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing light location |
Re landing lights.. I don't think there is anything sacred about the left
wing except that the pilot can see it easier than from the right wing, but
my A&P told me that early Cessna 172s with the light on the left wing kept
the bulbs for hundreds of student landings but that newer ones with light on
the nose strut went out in a number of hours because of engine vibration and
landing bounce. Don't know if the vibration is that bad on the Zenairs or
not, but was true on spam cans.
Ron DeWees
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo(at)trw.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Landing light location
>
> Mine is in the right wing-root outside the prop arc.
>
> GGP
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz(at)earthlink.net> |
Has anyone found a place to purchase the 22000uF / 25V capacitor that connects
to the external rectifier-regulator? I have been all over locally to no
avail.
Lowell Metz 701 912S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
601 builders,
I'm in process of selecting the rubber trim on the forward tilt
canopy and would ask if anyone has used the p/n 05-01300
rubber trim from Aircraft spruce for this purpose. It seems
a bit short on section. What dimension is the section on
the ZAC trim for the canopy and does it seem satisfactory?
Thanks all,
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
Hi Lowell
I've got the same aircraft and egine, why do you need a capacitor
installation?
Regards,
Roger Roy
CH-701/912 S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
www.lockwood-aviation.com under the heading of electrical there listed the
Capacitors you need for your Rotax
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com> |
Lowell and others
The capacitor I used is a 28,000 uf 25V from www.mouser.com
the part number is 539-CGS25V28000 and its on page 369 for about $13.00
I had good service with Mouser ordering on the web.
The capacitor is required if you do not want problems in the future... the
Rotax regulator, like any electronic regulator, puts out a RIPPLING DC
voltage that will play havoc with any sensitive electronics that expects a
smooth DC voltage.... (radios, GPS, etc) You can get away without one if you
NEVER disconnect your battery from the circuit (it acts like a big
capacitor). But for example, in my circuit, I allow my battery to be
disconnected when I switch off the main switch... depends on how you've
wired your circuits.. Having the cap means all works well even if the
battery is disconnected!
Jon
www.joncroke.com
>
> Has anyone found a place to purchase the 22000uF / 25V capacitor
that connects to the external rectifier-regulator? I have been all over
locally to no avail.
> Lowell Metz 701 912S
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Ferris" <ferret(at)wmtel.net> |
I bought mine from Aeroelectric.com.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Capacitor
>
> Has anyone found a place to purchase the 22000uF / 25V capacitor
that connects to the external rectifier-regulator? I have been all over
locally to no avail.
> Lowell Metz 701 912S
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Weber" <chrisoz(at)gmx.net> |
Hello XL-builders,
I am a week away from the first flight of my modified, scratch built HD
taildragger over here in Australia, and while I am elated and terrified at
the prospect I know from experience that I will miss building. I finished my
first Zodiac, a kit 601 UL taildragger, April last year, and in July I
started the HD. So the withdrawal symtoms are just around the corner.
I had a long hard look at the XL plans on the web yesterday, and I like what
I see. Especially the wing profile with the flaps. And here is the question
I want to pop you guys: With that profile the CG range should be wider and
further back than the HD's. Could you have a look in your plans and tell me
where it is from datum line (LE?), so I can compare?
I'd very much appreciate that.
And as far as first flight and the intense pucker-factor is concerned, once
she has been inspected and registered on Wednesday I will post my 'Hail
thee, Ceasar' with some last minute pictures before I take her up.
Cheers,
Chris Weber
Zodiac 601 HD taildragger AUF 19-3891 'Brick'
EA81, Amax Redrive, Razorback with rollover protection and gullwing doors,
BRS 1050 in nose, wide tyres, longer undercarriage, 90 l in two LE-tanks,
and last not least 715 lbs empty weight including oil and coolant.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CG range in XL |
Let me begin Chris by offering my heartfelt congratulations on your near
completion of your HD. That's quite an accomplishment -- I'm envious! To
answer your question, according to my XL plans, the CG range is 300mm to
450 mm from the datum
>
> Hello XL-builders,
>
> I am a week away from the first flight of my modified, scratch built HD
> taildragger over here in Australia, and while I am elated and terrified at
> the prospect I know from experience that I will miss building. I finished
my
> first Zodiac, a kit 601 UL taildragger, April last year, and in July I
> started the HD. So the withdrawal symtoms are just around the corner.
> I had a long hard look at the XL plans on the web yesterday, and I like
what
> I see. Especially the wing profile with the flaps. And here is the
question
> I want to pop you guys: With that profile the CG range should be wider and
> further back than the HD's. Could you have a look in your plans and tell
me
> where it is from datum line (LE?), so I can compare?
> I'd very much appreciate that.
> And as far as first flight and the intense pucker-factor is concerned,
once
> she has been inspected and registered on Wednesday I will post my 'Hail
> thee, Ceasar' with some last minute pictures before I take her up.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris Weber
>
> Zodiac 601 HD taildragger AUF 19-3891 'Brick'
> EA81, Amax Redrive, Razorback with rollover protection and gullwing doors,
> BRS 1050 in nose, wide tyres, longer undercarriage, 90 l in two LE-tanks,
> and last not least 715 lbs empty weight including oil and coolant.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Stabilizer Skin Bending |
Did you receive the message I sent you? My mail server has been acting up
lately.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, May 02, 2003 4:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Stabilizer Skin Bending
>
>Listers:
>
>I know many of you are past this stage, but if you are plans-building and
>have not bent your stabilizer skin, I want to report that the ZAC drawing
>suggestion of making a plywood section with a 24mm spacer and pressing down
>on the sheet works GREAT! It takes two people and some care, but I was
>surprised at the results. I did it last night and ended up with an
>excellent bend with no wrinkles.
>
>I found out this is new to the drawings (6T2-4) so if you have an old set,
>you may want to drop me a line and I'll explain how to do it. I have been
>looking at Zodiac builder photos on web sites for months and I don't
>remember seeing mention of this method.
>
>You can see the board I built on my website under "Stabilizer
Construction."
>Better yet, clicky:
>
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_01_03Bentskin2.jpg
>
>You can see the board on the left and the skin clamped and bent on the
>right. The spacer is the length of the board and is 24mm thick.
>
>My hat's off to the Zenith guys for coming up with this time-saving trick.
>
>
>Take care,
>
>Scott Laughlin
>601XL Plans
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
Does anyone have a Composites Design Homebuilders power panel ? I need a
little info on this unit.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi List.
My father-in-law handed me this article today about a
701 that had an emergency crash landing near London
Ontario yesterday. All we know is that Joseph (J)
Davis of Komoka had an engine failure - engine type
not mentioned - and had to do an energency landing.
It was unclear in the article but somehow he hit a
fence trying to land on a private horse training track
and flipped the plane. He was out of the plane by the
time help got there and is apparently unhurt. The 701
has rather extensive damage judging from the picture
in the paper. He had been flying the 701 out of
Woodstock for more than three years according to the
paper. That is about all the detail I have for now.
Glad you are OK Joseph.
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab and Rudder waiting for skins
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chesterman Family <chesterman(at)on.aibn.com> |
I fly with Jay regularly but have not talked to him since this happened. He
is on this list so I am sure when the dust settles he will comment. The
plane had a 582 rotax blue head and was in it when we flew to osh (13 hrs
one way) in 2001. I knew when he got his Sonex finished I would not keep up
but I thought we would still have some adventures this summer with our pair
of 701's
I still stand my conviction that if I have to land a plane in a "bad area"
the slow 701 is my choice.
Dave Chesterman 582-701 188.9 hrs as of last night
David Barth wrote:
>
> Hi List.
> My father-in-law handed me this article today about a
> 701 that had an emergency crash landing near London
> Ontario yesterday. All we know is that Joseph (J)
> Davis of Komoka had an engine failure - engine type
> not mentioned - and had to do an energency landing.
> It was unclom/subscription
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Tellet <telletdl(at)erols.com> |
From the archives I know a lot of you guys hard chromed your gear legs.
For those who didn't, what did you do to protect the gear legs? Paint
or just a lot of grease?
By the way, what are people using to grease the leg and guides (and
keep it greased)?
Thanks in advance
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Gear Legs |
I primed them with Omni by PPG epoxy primer.
--- David Tellet wrote:
what did you do to protect
> the gear legs? Paint
> or just a lot of grease?
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Weber" <chrisoz(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 05/04/03 |
Hello David,
I used zink primer on the legs and a final coat of 'Silver Wheels'-spray
from the auto-shop. I grease the whole plane with Lithium -grease in a spray
can (all that needs to be greased, that is). The can has a small nozzle with
a thin tube, and my front gear cover has a 1/8 hole where I insert the
nozzle to give the lower bearing grease from the inside. I do it about every
5 hours and it works very well, and the grease coat on the upper part of the
leg( scrapped clear of paint by the bearing) keeps the rust away.
Chris
601 HD
>
>
> From the archives I know a lot of you guys hard chromed your gear legs.
> For those who didn't, what did you do to protect the gear legs? Paint
> or just a lot of grease?
>
> By the way, what are people using to grease the leg and guides (and
> keep it greased)?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J Davis <jd(at)lri.sjhc.london.on.ca> |
Greetings Z-list...
Things have been a bit hectic the last couple of days, just wanted
to say that I'm 100% physically, somewhat less than that
psychologically ;')
I will compose a detailed account today and post it to this list,
just haven't had the chance yet...
To be continued...
On Sun, 4 May 2003, Chesterman Family wrote:
>
> I fly with Jay regularly but have not talked to him since this happened. He
> is on this list so I am sure when the dust settles he will comment. The
> plane had a 582 rotax blue head and was in it when we flew to osh (13 hrs
> one way) in 2001. I knew when he got his Sonex finished I would not keep up
> but I thought we would still have some adventures this summer with our pair
> of 701's
> I still stand my conviction that if I have to land a plane in a "bad area"
> the slow 701 is my choice.
> Dave Chesterman 582-701 188.9 hrs as of last night
>
> David Barth wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi List.
> > My father-in-law handed me this article today about a
> > 701 that had an emergency crash landing near London
> > Ontario yesterday. All we know is that Joseph (J)
> > Davis of Komoka had an engine failure - engine type
> > not mentioned - and had to do an energency landing.
> > It was unclom/subscription
>
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenair STOL CH701/582 C-IGGY , > 240 hrs.
building: Sonex #325, engine probably Jabiru 3300/6/120hp
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | UNIX consultant |
| SysMgr, research programmer | email: jd(at)uwo.ca |
| Lawson Health Research Inst.| voice: (519) 646 6100 x64166 |
| London, Ontario | fax: (519) 646 6385 |
| Canada | lriweb.sjhc.london.on.ca/~jd |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stabilizer Skin Bending |
Mark:
I recieved a few emails from you with pictures, but I haven't had a chance
to review them (made some major progress on the tail section this weekend).
I'll take a look at them and get back to you later today.
Thanks,
Scott.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stabilizer Skin Bending
Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:56:14 -0400
Did you receive the message I sent you? My mail server has been acting up
lately.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, May 02, 2003 4:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Stabilizer Skin Bending
>
>Listers:
>
>I know many of you are past this stage, but if you are plans-building and
>have not bent your stabilizer skin, I want to report that the ZAC drawing
>suggestion of making a plywood section with a 24mm spacer and pressing
down
>on the sheet works GREAT! It takes two people and some care, but I was
>surprised at the results. I did it last night and ended up with an
>excellent bend with no wrinkles.
>
>I found out this is new to the drawings (6T2-4) so if you have an old set,
>you may want to drop me a line and I'll explain how to do it. I have been
>looking at Zodiac builder photos on web sites for months and I don't
>remember seeing mention of this method.
>
>You can see the board I built on my website under "Stabilizer
Construction."
>Better yet, clicky:
>
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_01_03Bentskin2.jpg
>
>You can see the board on the left and the skin clamped and bent on the
>right. The spacer is the length of the board and is 24mm thick.
>
>My hat's off to the Zenith guys for coming up with this time-saving trick.
>
>
>Take care,
>
>Scott Laughlin
>601XL Plans
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brenton Battles <brentbattles(at)charter.net> |
This capacitor can also be purchased through the Radio Shack catalog.
Brent Battles N16BZ 601HD Rotax 912 390 hours
>
>
> Has anyone found a place to purchase the 22000uF / 25V capacitor
> that connects
> to the external rectifier-regulator? I have been all over locally to
> no
> avail.
> Lowell Metz 701 912S
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)charter.net> |
Jay,
As someone who has made two "unscheduled" landings, I both sympathize
and applaude your efforts. I know your mind was racing during the event and
you were cool as a cucumber! Your decision to keep airspeed up even though
you caught a fence might have saved your life. It would have been so
tempting to try to wring out that last few feet at the expense of your
airspeed. Many an aviator has tried the same thing and nosed in because of
it. My hat is off to you, Jay!
John Karnes
601 HDS
Port Orchard, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: J Davis <jd(at)lri.sjhc.london.on.ca>
> [some emotional notes:] I'm just *so* pissed at myself for not
> making a good emergency landing in a field w/o a fence... *and*
> for not having paid the extra insurance $$ to have been covered
> for 'in flight' instead of only while on the ground. I guess I
> just feel like an old fool, more than anything, who has now nicely
> justified all the people who have said I'm crazy to build and fly
> an airplane.
Sounds to me like you did an excellent job of handling this EMERGENCY
situation. Remember - this is called an EMERGENCY for a very good reason.
The old flying adage "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing" is
NOT just a humourous line - it contains the golden nugget of truth that
flying is more dangerous than sitting in your armchair vegging in front of
the T.V..
In the end, the critics who told you you were crazy to "build and fly and
airplane" will be the ones who have lost out on LIFE. Life is an adventure!
And it is dangerous! And NO ONE gets out alive. The really sad thing is that
many are afraid to LIVE while they have the chance. You have chosen to live
and experience things that these critics will never understand. GOOD FOR
YOU!
As for the insurance etc... so what? We all make our best cost/risk analysis
and go with it. Sometimes we win, sometimes we win big. I believe in
insuring things I NEED like my house, my car, etc.. My aircraft is an
'optional' item, and like you I have not insured it for inflight risks. If
it get's damaged, I'll either rebuild it (hey building is half the fun), or
I'll scrap it and move on to another adventure.
So, let me add my 'WELL DONE' to the list. Now go take a little 'R & R' in
front of the 'boob tube' - recommended viewing: "The Right Stuff" ; "Apollo
13" ; "The Mighty" ; "Galaxy Quest" ; "X-Men" ; and anything else uplifting
that depicts the struggle we all face to grow and overcome! Then get back to
rebuilding!!!
Regards,
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF 601 HDS
"We are all of us in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
- Oscar Wilde
"Through adversity, to the stars"
- motto of Canadian Air Force (I don't recall the Latin ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Kowalski" <salned(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Parachutes for Sale |
Two new strong Parachutes for sale. $1200.00 each new. One back and One seat.
$600.00 each plus shipping and handling.
E-mail salned(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | thomas hobbes <doublecheckvalve(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Forced Landing and Future Passengers... |
JD-
When you are ready to go back up, but don't want
to take a passenger (wife, child), let me know.
I'd fly with you any day. All of my friends are
Helo pilots, and I shared your account with them.
Without exception, their response was 'This guy
is a civilian? Wow...sounded like he kept his
cool.'
Whenever you're ready--I'll even split the gas!
TR
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lyle D. Pahnke" <ldpahnke(at)netwitz.net> |
After reading your account, I can't help but think that you were equipped
and prepared mentally as best as anyone can be, and it played out with a
favorable result. In my opinion, the angle of attack instrument is also
keynote to your preparedness and professionalism and should be commended.
That is the very first instrument that I purchased for my plane, for the
very same reason. Congratulations. I am thankful for your wellbeing and only
hope that we can do as well if in the same situation. Good luck and thank
you for sharing. LDP
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Netwitz. Are your virus definitions up to date?]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parachutes for Sale |
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
05/07/2003 06:38:02 AM
Ed,
Do you have any additional info for the chutes, manufacturer, etc.?
I don't know much about parachutes but the One seat is refering to a chute
that rides low on your back that you sit on, not that fastens on a seat, is
that correct?
Craig S.
601 XL
Two new strong Parachutes for sale. $1200.00 each new. One back and One
seat.
$600.00 each plus shipping and handling.
E-mail salned(at)msn.com
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
Hey folks, I'm just catching up on my mail and read all ref the "701 Down"
clips but for a newbie building a CH-701 what's with this Angle of Attack
thing, its not listed in my plans or assembly manual. Could someone enlighten
me on the subject? If this is an add on piece of equipment and in the
interest of safety I want one so where do I get one? Thanks. I guess this
aircraft has earned its title "SKY JEEP" Cheers
Roger Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben <tbs677(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Jay's Forced Landing. |
Jay, Good job, my hat is off to you sir. When you stated you had an AOA, I knew
right away you weren't crazy. Having looked into that subject since '78, I
think your judgement is solid. Some time ago, I knew a crusty old CFI. He never
overstated anything. When you did something wrong, just the look told it
all. His flying skills and knowledge was respected by all of us. On occasion
when you did the right thing by diplaying good judgement with a tough decision
or really good airmanship, he wouldn't say a word. But you would get a big
smile and a nod, and coming from someone so respected , you knew you where getting
the highest complement. I know I'm not in the same league as that old salt,
but you have my smile and a nod. Regards, Ben.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood(at)uvm.edu> |
Roger
An angle of attack meter measures the angle the wing makes with the
relative wind. While stall speed will change with different
conditions such as load, temp and altitude, the angle of attack at
which a plane stalls will always stay the same. The same can be said
for best glide angle with power out.
Zenith does not include an angle of attack meter and I am sure they
would not recommend one as there are to many options for different
kinds of meters and different places and methods for attachment. For
people who need to fly on the edge of stall, such as a carrier pilot,
they are a must. For most of us they are very nice but not a must,
and one of the nice things about building is that you can put in just
the amount of "very nice" that you want.
If you are just starting your 701 I would suggest that you keep your
eyes open as you build and chances are that at some time you will see
articles on angle of attack indicators in one magazine or another,
adds in Kit Plane and others, or on the net. They are something you
can add at any time.
Mark Wood
>
>Hey folks, I'm just catching up on my mail and read all ref the "701 Down"
>clips but for a newbie building a CH-701 what's with this Angle of Attack
>thing, its not listed in my plans or assembly manual. Could someone enlighten
>me on the subject? If this is an add on piece of equipment and in the
>interest of safety I want one so where do I get one? Thanks. I guess this
>aircraft has earned its title "SKY JEEP" Cheers
>
>Roger Roy
>
--
Mark Wood
Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team
Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
University of Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Angle of attack indicators |
Hi Roger,
I dont have one installed in my plane (or sell them :-) they are
several types, both electronic and mechanical (wind).
Here is a page or two about them, so you can read the theory.
Prices are from expensive all the way down to homemade. There is even
one homemade with a yarn string that works great and is made with a pvc
tube and installed in the wing strut...
This is one page, there is another one with better explanation, I will
post it when I find it in my bookmarks....
http://www.liftreserve.com/
Hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
--- RoyN9869L(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey folks, I'm just catching up on my mail and read all ref the "701
> Down"
> clips but for a newbie building a CH-701 what's with this Angle of
> Attack
> thing, its not listed in my plans or assembly manual. Could someone
> enlighten
> me on the subject? If this is an add on piece of equipment and in
> the
> interest of safety I want one so where do I get one? Thanks. I guess
> this
> aircraft has earned its title "SKY JEEP" Cheers
>
> Roger Roy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
Thank you Mark for great information on the AOA topic, I get smarter every
day with this list, Cheers
Regards,
Roger
CH701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of attack indicators |
Hi Gary,
Hey guy thanks for the site address very interesting and if you find the
other site address send it over my way. I'd appreciate that, Cheers
Regards,
Roger
CH701 - 912S
Still building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of attack indicators |
Roy,
This is the most simple, yet equal efective.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- RoyN9869L(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Hey guy thanks for the site address very interesting and if you find
> the
> other site address send it over my way. I'd appreciate that, Cheers
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger
> CH701 - 912S
> Still building
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of attack indicators |
Roy,
This is the most simple, yet equal efective.
http://www.supercub.org/woe/woe0402.php
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- RoyN9869L(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Hey guy thanks for the site address very interesting and if you find
> the
> other site address send it over my way. I'd appreciate that, Cheers
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger
> CH701 - 912S
> Still building
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood(at)uvm.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of attack indicators |
Gary
I love it. KISS is the way to go and this is very KISS
Mark Wood
>
>Roy,
>
>This is the most simple, yet equal efective.
>
>http://www.supercub.org/woe/woe0402.php
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower.
>
--
Mark Wood
Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team
Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
University of Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 05/03/03 |
The plans show 300mm forward and 450mm aft of the Datum which is the leading
edge.
>Could you have a look in your plans and tell me
>where it is from datum line (LE?), so I can compare?
>I'd very much appreciate that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Pilot holes Ouchie |
Well it finally happened ! I have alot of the fuselage done, tail feathers
done, flaps done and presently working on the ailerons and nose ribs.
Tonight I had extra time so I went out to the garage to work on the aileron.
I have all the preholes drilled and while installing the ribs bam it finally
happened. I lined up the rib line and drilled through the predrilled holes
into the rib then into my finger !! I almost had this fantasy of making it
through without a hole in my finger. Oh well at least it was just a #40 bit
:-)
Mark Townsend
Plans building
601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net> |
Roger,
Here is another AOA site http://www.riteangle.com/. This is the one I have
on my HDS
Regards,
Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus - Vermont - 236.2 flight hrs. - 338
landings, 1 ON ICE!!)
web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/
>Thank you Mark for great information on the AOA topic, I get smarter every
>day with this list, Cheers
>
>Regards,
>
>Roger
>CH701
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot holes Ouchie |
Ouch! :oO
After a couple of nasty cuts, I got used to always work wearing gloves (of all
things, gardening gloves - not a major fashion statement, but light and not hot).
It saved me a few cuts and bruises, and it also reduces the hand prints on the
aluminum.
Granted, it wouldn't have saved your finger, but it helps with the smaller stuff.
Regards
Carlos
(So far, all holes applied to inorganic material)
> Oh well at least it was just a #40 bit
> :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot holes Ouchie |
>I lined up the rib line and drilled through the predrilled holes
>into the rib then into my finger !! I almost had this fantasy of making it
>through without a hole in my finger.
Hey, you should try drilling into the fingernail right at the root where
the fingernail starts. Throbs real bad for a while and looks horrible for
months.
At least, that's what I've been told happens.... ;
)
(don't ask)
Gary Liming
N1776G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JNBOLDING1" <JNBOLDING1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot holes Ouchie |
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
I lined up the rib line and drilled through the predrilled holes
>into the rib then into my finger !! I almost had this fantasy of making it
>through without a hole in my finger. Oh well at least it was just a #40 bit
List
At first I thought "what a stupid thing to do " then I remembered back about
25 yrs ago building my RV3. I was using a razor knife and a 4' aluminum straight
edge to cut something and had my thumb slightly exposed and trimmed off the
last 1/8" of it Changed my fingerprint for sure. LOW&SLOW John do
not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)attbi.com> |
A question for anyone using the Microair comm radio:
Is the built-in intercom function satisfactory or should I plan on installing a
separate intercom?
If the latter, what brand of intercom works well with the Microair radio?
Thanks for any input.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com> |
I am an XL builder who is waiting to start building. I received my
construction manuals and my blueprints when I ordered my kits, but because
of the long backlog of people ordering their kits, I have to wait almost 2
months for my kits to arrive. I have been using this time to study the
plans, buy tools (gotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more tools),
to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my worktable.
So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders can
offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the following
sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
_______________________________; and I'm glad I did
________________________.
Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and others
I'm sure.
Finally, I noticed that there are many detailed color manuals in .pdf format
in the builders' pages on the ZAC web site. These photos and their
associated details are not included in the photocopied manuals that I
received with my blueprints. The question is this: Are they included with
the kits? I am considering printing them all up, but don't wan't to waste
color ink if I'm going to get them anyway.
Aan again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Bill in Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot holes Ouchie |
Mark, I have a 3" cut on the palm of my left hand from the same size drill
bit. It's not quite healed yet. That's when I told myself to slow down.
Sometimes I try to sneak in a few minutes on the plane between family stuff
(eating dinner, running the kids to sporting events) and I get in a little
bit of a hurry. I have to remind myself to slow down. My Jeff Gordon
Mechanix gloves would have help (If I had them on).
Keep up the good work.
Scott Laughlin
601XL Plans
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Pilot holes Ouchie
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:23:21 -0400
Well it finally happened ! I have alot of the fuselage done, tail feathers
done, flaps done and presently working on the ailerons and nose ribs.
Tonight I had extra time so I went out to the garage to work on the aileron.
I have all the preholes drilled and while installing the ribs bam it finally
happened. I lined up the rib line and drilled through the predrilled holes
into the rib then into my finger !! I almost had this fantasy of making it
through without a hole in my finger. Oh well at least it was just a #40 bit
:-)
Mark Townsend
Plans building
601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair radio |
At 22:07 07-05-03, you wrote:
>A question for anyone using the Microair comm radio:
>Is the built-in intercom function satisfactory or should I plan on
>installing a separate intercom?
>If the latter, what brand of intercom works well with the Microair radio?
I find the Microair intercom just adequate. It isn't a voice activated
type, so there's always a little background hiss that's noticeable to me
(less so by my dad with his older ears!). I find I'm often adjusting my
headset's volume control to find a compromise, in that lowering the volume
to remove the hiss results in lower intercom voice volume as well. Some
improvement is possible by adjusting the sidetone volume, which is accessed
by a non-conducting screwdriver thru a hole in the side of the radio case.
It's supposed to be something one sets and forgets, and I it's setting will
depend on what brand of headsets one uses.
I have made posts to the list a couple times (1999 onwards) about the
Microair.
My recommendation: If saving money on one's instrument panel, the built-in
intercom is fine. If looking for a real quality intercom, buy a separate one.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
Bill:
It is worth printing the manuals from the Zenith site. I did that and I'm
glad I did because they were better than what ZAC sent with my plans. I
don't know about the kit, but I wouldn't expect them to be in your big box.
Also, there are several web sites with notes from the builders every step of
the way. Check Larry McFarlands site at www.macsmachine.com. He has
excellent photos and an excellent journal. He also does good work and has
documented many of his ideas.
Also, Ray Montagne has one of the best collection of photos for kit builders
at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac/
And I can't forget to mention Michel Therein's page at:
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/
There's lots of info out there, you just have to dig a little. I've got a
little head start on you, so maybe you can take a look at my photos and
comments and learn a little.
Good luck and keep surfing until your kit arrives. Oh yea....
If I had it to do all over again, I would
HAVE STARTED SOONER.
I'm glad I did
GO TO THE ZENITH FACTORY WORKSHOP IN FEBRUARY.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Any advice?
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:36:09 -0600
I am an XL builder who is waiting to start building. I received my
construction manuals and my blueprints when I ordered my kits, but because
of the long backlog of people ordering their kits, I have to wait almost 2
months for my kits to arrive. I have been using this time to study the
plans, buy tools (gotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more tools),
to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my worktable.
So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders can
offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the following
sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
_______________________________; and I'm glad I did
________________________.
Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and others
I'm sure.
Finally, I noticed that there are many detailed color manuals in .pdf format
in the builders' pages on the ZAC web site. These photos and their
associated details are not included in the photocopied manuals that I
received with my blueprints. The question is this: Are they included with
the kits? I am considering printing them all up, but don't wan't to waste
color ink if I'm going to get them anyway.
Aan again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Bill in Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rico Voss <vozzen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank sealant |
I'm getting ready to seal up the XL wing fuel tanks
(hopefully for the last time), and am wondering what
to use to seal the threads on the brass fittings.
I'm not excited about using teflon tape or
teflon-based liquid (see earlier posts), and I'd
rather not have to buy more speciality items from the
catalog.
Question is: Why not use the old standby Permatex
GAsket Sealant #1 or #2 (also made by Loctite).
They're resistant to gasoline and are on the shelf.
Anybody had any good/bad experience with them.
Thanks for your experience.
--Rico
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Hillebrand <masterbogun(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Bill-My name is Bo Hillebrand and I am a 701 plans man. What I have done
and I am very happy with the results is built the wings,and the fuselage. Very
good experience and I proved to myself that I could follow the plans and make
all the tooling blocks and form the materials and end up with a very nice plane.
But now I have decided to buy all the rest of the parts from zac. I am really
moving along nicely and it shouldn't be much longer until completion. Best
of luck.....Bo
Howerton"
I am an AL builder who is waiting to start building. I received my
construction manuals and my blueprints when I ordered my kits, but because
of the long backlog of people ordering their kits, I have to wait almost 2
months for my kits to arrive. I have been using this time to study the
plans, buy tools (cotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more tools),
to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my worktable.
So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders can
offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the following
sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
_______________________________; and I'm glad I did
________________________.
Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and others
I'm sure.
Finally, I noticed that there are many detailed color manuals in .PDP format
in the builders' pages on the AC web site. These photos and their
associated details are not included in the photocopied manuals that I
received with my blueprints. The question is this: Are they included with
the kits? I am considering printing them all up, but don't can't to waste
color ink if I'm going to get them anyway.
AAA again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Bill in Colorado Springs
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
:=A0 If I had it to do all over again, I would go out and find builders in
several different phase of construction. Take lot's of pictures, ask lots of
questions and learn as best I could from their tribulations. And I sure am
glad I made friends with people off of this list who have helped me
immeasurably in my pursuit of finsihing this aircraft. I'm so close now I
can almost taste it! I haven't flown in 2 years as my finances have recently
gotten a good screwing, and those instruments sure do add up!
But it's time to go get current and get ready to fly!
Good luck and more importantly, have fun! Build safe.
Steve Freeman
n902AL
Transmorgrifier
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J Davis <jd(at)lri.sjhc.london.on.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of attack indicators |
First, I would like to thank all the people who have taken time out
of their lives to respond to me regarding my recent incident. Its
amazing how much such a 'support group' can do towards helping to
heal the trauma experienced after bending your airplane (let alone
bending your, or someone else's, body, which thankfully was not the
case here). Thanks.
The AOA indicator I use is called a 'Bacon Saver', and is simply a
shaft with a freely pivoting vane at the end. It extends forward of
the leading edge much like a pitot tube, but close enough to the
cabin that it is visible in your peripheral vision. It has a scale
which you calibrate to indicate where your plane stalls. You can
barely see it on the pilot's side at
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/jd/
and up close at http://www.oneillairplane.com/baconsaver.htm
Simple, inexpensive, indispensable. There are several other fancier
models available with LEDs in your panel to indicate AOA:
http://www.angle-of-attack.com/Default.htm
I have pretty much decided to install the 'LRI' in the Sonex I'm
currently building: http://www.liftreserve.com/
Some theory:
http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/aoa.html
Thanks again.
J. (just call me 'Crash') Davis
On Wed, 7 May 2003, Gary Gower wrote:
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> I dont have one installed in my plane (or sell them :-) they are
> several types, both electronic and mechanical (wind).
>
> Here is a page or two about them, so you can read the theory.
>
> Prices are from expensive all the way down to homemade. There is even
> one homemade with a yarn string that works great and is made with a pvc
> tube and installed in the wing strut...
>
> This is one page, there is another one with better explanation, I will
> post it when I find it in my bookmarks....
>
> http://www.liftreserve.com/
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> 701 912S
> Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
>
>
> --- RoyN9869L(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hey folks, I'm just catching up on my mail and read all ref the "701
> > Down"
> > clips but for a newbie building a CH-701 what's with this Angle of
> > Attack
> > thing, its not listed in my plans or assembly manual. Could someone
> > enlighten
> > me on the subject? If this is an add on piece of equipment and in
> > the
> > interest of safety I want one so where do I get one? Thanks. I guess
> > this
> > aircraft has earned its title "SKY JEEP" Cheers
> >
> > Roger Roy
> >
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenair STOL CH701/582 C-IGGY , > 240 hrs. and holding...
building: Sonex #325, engine probably Jabiru 3300/6/120hp
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | UNIX consultant |
| SysMgr, research programmer | email: jd(at)uwo.ca |
| Lawson Health Research Inst.| voice: (519) 646 6100 x64166 |
| London, Ontario | fax: (519) 646 6385 |
| Canada | lriweb.sjhc.london.on.ca/~jd |
If the shoe fits......buy it in every color.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Etherington" <aletherington(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot holes Ouchie |
Mark:=0D
=0D
Geez, as soon as I leave you alone, look what happens! Really though, I'm
sorry to hear about your little escapade. The worst is the fact that
everyone seems to think it's inevitable.=0D
Not looking forward to it.=0D
=0D
Al =0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0D
Date: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:42:23 PM=0D
Subject: Zenith-List: Pilot holes Ouchie=0D
=0D
=0D
Well it finally happened ! I have alot of the fuselage done, tail feathers=0D
done, flaps done and presently working on the ailerons and nose ribs.=0D
Tonight I had extra time so I went out to the garage to work on the aileron.=0D
I have all the preholes drilled and while installing the ribs bam it finally=0D
happened. I lined up the rib line and drilled through the predrilled holes=0D
into the rib then into my finger !! I almost had this fantasy of making it=0D
through without a hole in my finger. Oh well at least it was just a #40 bit=0D
:-)=0D
=0D
Mark Townsend=0D
Plans building=0D
601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bernoulli Smernoulli! |
| From: | Tony Bonsell <tbonsell(at)luxuria.com> |
Hi Guys
I have been suspicious of the bernoulli theory ever since ground school, and
I argue against it all the time. Now I have fresh ammunition:
http://www.aa.washington.edu/faculty/eberhardt/lift.htm
701: 1.5 wings done.
******************************************************
Tony Bonsell (tbonsell(at)luxuria.com) CI-FKF
Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications
535 Cragg Road, RR #3
Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3
Voice: 905.852.3848 Fax: 905.852.0652
http://www.luxuria.com
******************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant |
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
05/08/2003 10:11:47 AM
Question is: Why not use the old standby Permatex
GAsket Sealant #1 or #2 (also made by Loctite).
They're resistant to gasoline and are on the shelf.
Anybody had any good/bad experience with them.
Permatex Superblue RTV #2 gasket sealer is an excellent thread sealant for
gas, oil, or any petroleum product. I work in an industrial environment
and we use it exclusively. You are right that many thread sealants don't
hold up to gasoline.
Craig S.
601 XL Tails done, wings started.
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Bill,
About the *.pdf manuals online, in our case (701) the manual is
constantly under developement so with the kit we recieved the manual
about 70% complete, we have about a year building and we have every
mayor part complete and we are assembling everything together... lucky
is that the updating speed from ZAC was almost at our building pace.
I bought an extra 3 ring binder and print every new section with the
black and white option in the printer.
What I will advice you to do, is to check in the computer all the
updates and see witch of them is missing in you manual, and print them.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico.
--- Bill Howerton wrote:
>
>
> I am an XL builder who is waiting to start building. I received my
> construction manuals and my blueprints when I ordered my kits, but
> because
> of the long backlog of people ordering their kits, I have to wait
> almost 2
> months for my kits to arrive. I have been using this time to study
> the
> plans, buy tools (gotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more
> tools),
> to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my worktable.
>
> So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders
> can
> offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the
> following
> sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
> _______________________________; and I'm glad I did
> ________________________.
>
> Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and
> others
> I'm sure.
>
> Finally, I noticed that there are many detailed color manuals in .pdf
> format
> in the builders' pages on the ZAC web site. These photos and their
> associated details are not included in the photocopied manuals that I
> received with my blueprints. The question is this: Are they
> included with
> the kits? I am considering printing them all up, but don't wan't to
> waste
> color ink if I'm going to get them anyway.
>
> Aan again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
> Bill in Colorado Springs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Kramer" <edair701(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant |
Rico,
I don't know what everybody else is using on the fuel tank fittings.
What the IA at our local airport told me to use on the fuel fittings for my
701 is called Fuelube, it's the consistency on Vaseline. Using sealers would
make it difficult to remove the fittings if necessary. It's
available at AC Spruce, P/N 09-25300, page 318 of the ACS catalog.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701: rudder & left wing completed, almost finished with right wing.
edair701(at)adelphia.net
>
> I'm getting ready to seal up the XL wing fuel tanks
> (hopefully for the last time), and am wondering what
> to use to seal the threads on the brass fittings.
> I'm not excited about using teflon tape or
> teflon-based liquid (see earlier posts), and I'd
> rather not have to buy more speciality items from the
> catalog.
>
> Question is: Why not use the old standby Permatex
> GAsket Sealant #1 or #2 (also made by Loctite).
> They're resistant to gasoline and are on the shelf.
> Anybody had any good/bad experience with them.
>
> Thanks for your experience.
> --Rico
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bernoulli Smernoulli! |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Tony,
Thanks for the post - I've had similar suspicious. Definitely a good
read.
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Bonsell [mailto:tbonsell(at)luxuria.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Bernoulli Smernoulli!
Hi Guys
I have been suspicious of the bernoulli theory ever since ground school,
and I argue against it all the time. Now I have fresh ammunition:
http://www.aa.washington.edu/faculty/eberhardt/lift.htm
701: 1.5 wings done.
******************************************************
Tony Bonsell (tbonsell(at)luxuria.com) CI-FKF
Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications
535 Cragg Road, RR #3
Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3
Voice: 905.852.3848 Fax: 905.852.0652
http://www.luxuria.com
******************************************************
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com> |
thanks! good advice -- of all the responses to this question, this is the
one that sounds like the most sense
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Any advice?
>
> Bill,
>
> About the *.pdf manuals online, in our case (701) the manual is
> constantly under developement so with the kit we recieved the manual
> about 70% complete, we have about a year building and we have every
> mayor part complete and we are assembling everything together... lucky
> is that the updating speed from ZAC was almost at our building pace.
>
> I bought an extra 3 ring binder and print every new section with the
> black and white option in the printer.
>
> What I will advice you to do, is to check in the computer all the
> updates and see witch of them is missing in you manual, and print them.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> 701 912S
> Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico.
>
> --- Bill Howerton wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am an XL builder who is waiting to start building. I received my
> > construction manuals and my blueprints when I ordered my kits, but
> > because
> > of the long backlog of people ordering their kits, I have to wait
> > almost 2
> > months for my kits to arrive. I have been using this time to study
> > the
> > plans, buy tools (gotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more
> > tools),
> > to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my worktable.
> >
> > So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders
> > can
> > offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the
> > following
> > sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
> > _______________________________; and I'm glad I did
> > ________________________.
> >
> > Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and
> > others
> > I'm sure.
> >
> > Finally, I noticed that there are many detailed color manuals in .pdf
> > format
> > in the builders' pages on the ZAC web site. These photos and their
> > associated details are not included in the photocopied manuals that I
> > received with my blueprints. The question is this: Are they
> > included with
> > the kits? I am considering printing them all up, but don't wan't to
> > waste
> > color ink if I'm going to get them anyway.
> >
> > Aan again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
> > Bill in Colorado Springs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Thomure" <rthomure(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Bernoulli Smernoulli! |
Thanks for the article reference.
I wonder if I can get a refund for the ground school when they incorrectly
explaining the Bernoulli principle as it applies to airplanes?
Randall Thomure
601 XL
Rudder done
Just got the box with the rest of the tail.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tony Bonsell
Subject: Zenith-List: Bernoulli Smernoulli!
Hi Guys
I have been suspicious of the bernoulli theory ever since ground school, and
I argue against it all the time. Now I have fresh ammunition:
http://www.aa.washington.edu/faculty/eberhardt/lift.htm
701: 1.5 wings done.
******************************************************
Tony Bonsell (tbonsell(at)luxuria.com) CI-FKF
Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications
535 Cragg Road, RR #3
Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3
Voice: 905.852.3848 Fax: 905.852.0652
http://www.luxuria.com
******************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com |
Bill,
The Getting Ready part of building can be the fun part. It gets more serious
later on.
About work tables. The C H designs want to be made on a flat & straight work
table. Level too.
I struggled with finding straight lumber to support/define the work surface.
Only to find that there is no such thing. Not practically anyway. Also heavy.
A 17 foot ladder, Home Depot, Werner medium duty, fits the bill. It comes in
two 10 foot sections. Both have the same rail width, are straight & strong.
Remove the end fittings.
lay the two ladder sections on the top surface, 3/4 plywood, good stuff from
H D, space them to leave a 3 in over hang, to clamp to,,, and screw the
rails to the plywood. 3/4 in pan head, Phillips head, sheet metal screws
work. Pre drill clearance holes through the rails, ~ 15 in spacing. If you
like counter sunk head bolts, use em.
Add two boards, ~ 10 to 12 in wide, across the ladder rails near each end, to
form a kind of box beam. Turn it flat side up, place it on two folding leg
tables, 2 X 4 foot size. Put dowels in the leg's, center drill for bolts &
threaded inserts, 5/16,,,, washers & nuts. Adjust bolt's to level the work
table surface.
My table is 10 1/2 feet long, and fit's in the basement work space. It is
easy to move, c clamp it to the tables. For a longer table, just select the
right length ladder.
Working well so far, all tail surfaces done, right wing in work.
There was a sketch of this table method in the a recent Zenair News Letter.
Have fun. PS,, use a new ladder, old ones are bent.
Jerry, CH 701 SP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lee Thomas <cltvet(at)mail.ocis.net> |
>Can also use industrial grade metal 2x4 that you can buy in 10 ft
>length.Then 2x4 cross pieces,then top and good base.
Lee
>Bill,
>The Getting Ready part of building can be the fun part. It gets more serious
>later on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Any advice?
I have been using this time to study the
> plans, buy tools (gotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more tools),
> to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my worktable.
>
> So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders can
> offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the following
> sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
> _______________________________; and I'm glad I did
> ________________________.
>
> Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and others
> I'm sure.
> Aan again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
> Bill in Colorado Springs
>
Bill,
Go to Lowes and buy a sheet of 3/4" x 48" x 9-ft white coated pressed board
for you're table.
Use 2x4s for a screw construct frame set inside 4" all round. Construct legs
of welded angle or tube.
The surface will lend well to inking patterns and illuminate your
constructions progress a great deal.
And by all means, put the worktable on lockable casters. 2-1/2" do fine.
If you've not yet
purchased a battery powered drill yet, get at least a 14.4 volt variable
with two batteries.
My Black and Decker batteries lasted about 4 years and 9000 holes until they
were replaced
this year. This was the tool I depended upon most so far.
Larry C. McFarland 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Bill,
There are only three things that I wish I had before the starting this
project:
1 - A Small Right Angle Air Drill. This tool has come in so handy that I
can't even imagine trying to build the plane without it, and in my
opinion some areas can't be built properly without it. The distance
between the drill's head and the center of the drill is about 6 to 8mm
which allows you to drill those final holes in tight spaces plus drill
in-between ribs and the like where a normal drill would never fit. Only
downside is the cost which runs around $250 to $500 depending on brand,
etc.
2 - Buy more clecoes and then buy some more and then buy some more...
3 - Buy some clamps and then buy some more and then some more...
We have a running joke in our house. Whenever a TV show displays a clamp
I always get a smart comment like, 'I bet you don't have that one'. So
far the reply is, actually I/we do (smile).
Outside of that, if you are concerned about having pretty finished
extruded pieces, I sanding machine and scotch bright wheel are nice and
will prevent excellent results.
Regards,
Don Honabach
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Any advice?
-->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Any advice?
I have been using this time to study the
> plans, buy tools (gotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more
> tools), to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my
> worktable.
>
> So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders can
> offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the
> following
> sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
> _______________________________; and I'm glad I did
> ________________________.
>
> Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and
> others I'm sure. Aan again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
> Bill in Colorado Springs
>
Bill,
Go to Lowes and buy a sheet of 3/4" x 48" x 9-ft white coated pressed
board for you're table. Use 2x4s for a screw construct frame set inside
4" all round. Construct legs of welded angle or tube. The surface will
lend well to inking patterns and illuminate your constructions progress
a great deal. And by all means, put the worktable on lockable casters.
2-1/2" do fine. If you've not yet purchased a battery powered drill yet,
get at least a 14.4 volt variable with two batteries. My Black and
Decker batteries lasted about 4 years and 9000 holes until they were
replaced this year. This was the tool I depended upon most so far.
Larry C. McFarland 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WAYNE BEATTIE <waynebeattie(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Rubber Motor Mount Question |
I was wondering how one would determine when the rubber bushings on the motor mounting
should be replaced?
Is there an age limit or just an inspection?
Do they harden with age or soften?
Anyone with any experience with this?
Would one be able to tell by the way the engine feels when running that they are
too soft/hard?
I read in an ultralight website that it recommended that they be changed yearly.
I assume that is for the severe environment that an ultralight may be subjected
to.
Any advice?
Wayne N601WB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Any advice? Right angle Air Drill |
My Dad bought one used/rebuilt in S&F (dont know how much he paid for
it) Fly Market and Sure, is one of the most important special tools in
building.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Don Honabach wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> There are only three things that I wish I had before the starting
> this
> project:
>
> 1 - A Small Right Angle Air Drill. This tool has come in so handy
> that I
> can't even imagine trying to build the plane without it, and in my
> opinion some areas can't be built properly without it. The distance
> between the drill's head and the center of the drill is about 6 to
> 8mm
> which allows you to drill those final holes in tight spaces plus
> drill
> in-between ribs and the like where a normal drill would never fit.
> Only
> downside is the cost which runs around $250 to $500 depending on
> brand,
> etc.
>
> 2 - Buy more clecoes and then buy some more and then buy some more...
>
> 3 - Buy some clamps and then buy some more and then some more...
>
> We have a running joke in our house. Whenever a TV show displays a
> clamp
> I always get a smart comment like, 'I bet you don't have that one'.
> So
> far the reply is, actually I/we do (smile).
>
> Outside of that, if you are concerned about having pretty finished
> extruded pieces, I sanding machine and scotch bright wheel are nice
> and
> will prevent excellent results.
>
> Regards,
> Don Honabach
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com> |
Wow, I had no idea that my question would illicit such an overwhelmingly
positive response! You guys are great! I can see that you guys have a real
passion for this.
Thanks!!!!
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Tellet <telletdl(at)erols.com> |
Bill,
- Ditto on clamps and clecos - can never have too many
- If you choose portable drill over air, try to find one with
reasonable high speed (I use a dewalt that goes to about 1500 rpm)
- Drill #40 holes first and then go back to drill final size - much
easier and neater
- Right angle drill is very helpful - I got an attachment for the
electric drill from Aircraft Spruce for about $40 - works okay as long
as you're not using it all day
- Study the plans and read forward in the manuals. Then study them
some more.
- Band saw with metal blade and a drill press - makes things so much
easier.
- Spend time getting your table as flat and level as possible - I
didn't and it is a pain to keep things straight.
- If things start to be more frustrating than fun, do something else
and come back to it later or the next day - your subconscious will have
figured it out by then.
Most importantly, have fun.
David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
Tools? I got the ones that Zenith will furnish for a good price with my 701
kit, plus my closet full of mostly common hand tools accumulated in 50 years
of household repairs, and found the two most useful all round tools to be a
Dremel tool (purchased in 1979 and still going strong) and a big 5 gallon
wet/dry shop vac purchase about 5 years ago. No drill presses, sanders,
press brakes or bandsaws needed. Only found my little hobby vise about 3
weeks ago, I've been hand holding or clamping everything before. Build on
two Home Depot Plastic folding tables.
Started January 2002, ready to install Jabiru 3300 and instrument panel this
month. The closer your project is to your bedroom and the refrigerator the
quicker you'll finish. Current 800 hr pilot 73 yo architectural designer.
Hal Rozema
theplanefolks.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Correction ...
>> Outside of that, if you are concerned about having pretty finished
extruded pieces, I sanding machine and scotch bright wheel are nice and
will prevent excellent results.
Just in case some one thinks I'm crazy, I meant, 'will produce excellent
results' and not 'prevent'. (arrghhh).
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Any advice?
Bill,
There are only three things that I wish I had before the starting this
project:
1 - A Small Right Angle Air Drill. This tool has come in so handy that I
can't even imagine trying to build the plane without it, and in my
opinion some areas can't be built properly without it. The distance
between the drill's head and the center of the drill is about 6 to 8mm
which allows you to drill those final holes in tight spaces plus drill
in-between ribs and the like where a normal drill would never fit. Only
downside is the cost which runs around $250 to $500 depending on brand,
etc.
2 - Buy more clecoes and then buy some more and then buy some more...
3 - Buy some clamps and then buy some more and then some more...
We have a running joke in our house. Whenever a TV show displays a clamp
I always get a smart comment like, 'I bet you don't have that one'. So
far the reply is, actually I/we do (smile).
Outside of that, if you are concerned about having pretty finished
extruded pieces, I sanding machine and scotch bright wheel are nice and
will prevent excellent results.
Regards,
Don Honabach
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Any advice?
-->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Any advice?
I have been using this time to study the
> plans, buy tools (gotta love any excuse that allows me to buy more
> tools), to get my work area in my garage ready, and build my
> worktable.
>
> So now the question arises, is there any advice you older builders can
> offer? I guess what I'm asking is this: Please complete the
> following
> sentence: If I had it to do all over again, I would
> _______________________________; and I'm glad I did
> ________________________.
>
> Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated by myself and
> others I'm sure. Aan again, Thanks for any advice you can offer.
> Bill in Colorado Springs
>
Bill,
Go to Lowes and buy a sheet of 3/4" x 48" x 9-ft white coated pressed
board for you're table. Use 2x4s for a screw construct frame set inside
4" all round. Construct legs of welded angle or tube. The surface will
lend well to inking patterns and illuminate your constructions progress
a great deal. And by all means, put the worktable on lockable casters.
2-1/2" do fine. If you've not yet purchased a battery powered drill yet,
get at least a 14.4 volt variable with two batteries. My Black and
Decker batteries lasted about 4 years and 9000 holes until they were
replaced this year. This was the tool I depended upon most so far.
Larry C. McFarland 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "barry mayne" <bazmay(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair radio |
G'day George,
I have the Microair radio and find the intercom trouble free, clear as
crystal and with the tiny on/off switch it works well. I do have head sets
with volume controls which allows the intercom volume to match the radio
volume.
Cheers\\Barry Mayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Microair radio
>
> A question for anyone using the Microair comm radio:
> Is the built-in intercom function satisfactory or should I plan on
installing a separate intercom?
> If the latter, what brand of intercom works well with the Microair radio?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> George
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
05/09/2003 07:17:12 AM
>Can also use industrial grade metal 2x4 that you can buy in 10 ft
>length.Then 2x4 cross pieces,then top and good base.
I used a 3/4" sheet of particle board, very heavy but particle board will
stay flat forever as long as you support it and don't get it too wet. Mine
is lying on top of some tables in the dining room. The tail is complete
and totally flat and warp free. I added another 4' particle board
extension for the wings, will let you know how they come out.
Craig
601 XL
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April 07, 2003 - May 09, 2003
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-di