Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-em
December 07, 2004 - December 28, 2004
>
> My applogies but I did not see the engine was a Jab. The Rotax and the
> Stratus use the same bing carb which can be a problem when you have two
> pumps in series (low wing pump and the engine pump) because the pressure
> can overcome the float needle. So to junk the engine driven pump on a
> Rotax is perfectly OK...becuse it has Bing carbs.
>
> The problem with an engine driven pump is that it is prone to heating
> and if it is used on a low wing plane with auto fuel with no low point
> pump it is a prime candidate for vapour lock.
>
> If your engine has some other form of fuel metering that is fuel
> pressure dependant (MOST carbs do not care what the pressure is as long
> as it does not overcome the float needle) then of course you need some
> way to accuratly deliver that pressure.
>
> My point was intended to demonstrate that a engine driven pump only is a
> poor way to do it.
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Small
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
>
>
> Never, never, never junk the mechanical pump on a Jabiru!!!! The info
> below came from someone who has little knowledge of Jabiru engines, in
> fact he thinks they're tested below sea level. The spring in the Jabiru
> mechanical pump is customized for the engine. You can pump through it
> if it fails, just ask USJabiru or Andy at SunCoast. A Jab is not like a
> Subaru/Stratus, which does not come with a fuel pump. I'll resist the
> urge to say more but add that the US factory distributors know more
> about their products than do the various opinions on an e-mail builders
> list. Ask the people who know.
>
> regards jeff
>
> >Junk the engine driven pump, that just encourages vapour lock and
> over
> >pressurises the carbs.....This is what I have been flying with for
> 350
> >hours now.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Duh...Are you sure there isn't a hole in your diaphram there
Thilo?....:)
Interesting, the pump must have some kind of pressure relief/regulator
built in?
Hmm...Still you would never want to use the engine pump alone because it
will now be sucking both uphill (with a hot pump) and through a dead
Facet pump which will have some forward flow pressure drop...Never
measured it though. So it still seems redundant on a Rotax, at least
with low wing tanks.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thilo Kind
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
Hi Frank and all,
I have the setup you described: Zodiac CH 601 HDS with L/E tanks, a
Faucet pump in each bay (which I also use as tank selectors), and the
Rotax 912 pump in series. During flight operations I always run one
Faucet pump and the engine pump. I also have a fuel pressure sensor
downstream of the engine driven pump. For test purposes I have switched
off the Faucet pumps (yes, I'm fully aware of the purpose of vapor lock
in this case - we fully agree on this subject. However, this was done
just for test purposes). The interesting observation was, that the fuel
presssure doesn't change at all. So, I assume, it doesn't matter from
the perspective of over-pressuring the Bing whether or not the engine
driven pump is installed.
Happy flying
Thilo Kind
currently in Taiwan, where no general aviation exists :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
on 12/7/04 10:05 AM, HeatonHE(at)aol.com at HeatonHE(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> At first my 601 XL wouldn't trim out even with no flaps. The >first thing I
>> did was to duct tape an extension on the trim tab to see >what it would take
>> to trim it out. With the tab nearly doubled in size it would >trim out but it
>> still took most of the trim travel.
>
> I have noticed that some aircraft, Pulsar for instance, use the bungee system
> for elevator trim. Would this be a viable option for the 601XL? I think the
> elevator would have to be balanced for this to work.
>
Now there's an Idea. Put a bungee in the system to give some nose up trim
force and use the trim tab to get the rest. I might not have to add surface
area to the tab and it would tend to limit the nose down trim available.
Right now I think I can trim out to well above Vne. I could set it up so the
spring force trims the plane out in normal cruise and fly with the trim tab
near neutral like I'm used to doing in a Cessna. I just have to figure out
the best place to put the bungee.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem |
Hello Thread, Well I appreciate all the fine advise I have received in the
last couple days on this issue. So I trekked the 60 miles up to Spruce
yesterday and purchased a fine valve. It is an FS20X4 Andair made in England and
pretty as can be. Nice, clean workmanship. Only problem is none of the fitting
I have will screw into or on to the male and female ports. What have I got ?
This thing is growing into a whole new project and all I want to do is spray a
little more paint and go flying ! I e-mailed the Andair folks over the pond
after getting nothing from their web site. Who out there knows what kind of
fittings these are and who might sell them. thanks, Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevinbonds(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 |
Nick
Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so called bad
rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct. the 1604-0412's
are being produced in China. Check the archives for the complete history on this.
I believe I sent an email about this back in the spring. I got this info from
two different sales people in Canada where I ordered my rivets.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
> believe they are made in America. I read that the
> quality control is not as good and they are not
> recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
> using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
> on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
> any consideration.
>
> =====
> A Fellow Aviator
> Nick Pace
> Harpers Ferry WV
> Building a 601XL #5607
> Corvair Powered
> {just started}
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Nick
Good news and Bad news. The plant in NJ closed years ago, so those so called bad
rivets are probably long gone. Bad news is, as of last Oct. the 1604-0412's
are being produced in China. Check the archives for the complete history on this.
I believe I sent an email about this back in the spring. I got this info fromtwo
differentsalespeople in Canada where I ordered my rivets.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace
I am using Avex 1604-0412 from Airparts Inc. and I
believe they are made in America. I read that the
quality control is not as good and they are not
recomended for aircraft use.Has or is anyone else
using these rivets and does anyone have any thoughts
on this subject? I would like to thank the list for
any consideration.
=====
A Fellow Aviator
Nick Pace
Harpers Ferry WV
Building a 601XL #5607
Corvair Powered
{just started}
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
=========================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevinbonds(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? |
Carlos
Sorry to say it is my understanding that Yes they will. To be clear not all of
the rivets they produce are to be made in China, but as luck would have it ours
are and this is the only place they will be made as I understand it. Someone
else may want to chick on this, but be sure you are asking about the 1604-0412
rivets. The guy I spoke to seemed to know what he was talking about. I explained
that i was building a experimental aircraft and that he designer had specified
the use of English made avex rivets. He asked which avex rivets. when I
told him 1604-0412 and -0514's he said those particular ones used to be made in
the UK yes, but that plant had shut down a few months before as they were presently
moving its production to China. I asked, "so those particular rivets will
be made in China?" and he said "Yes, once the plant opens in October." (remember
this was in the spring). Incidently this was during Sun-n-Fun that I had
this conversation (I was home) so I called a buddy
of mine who was there to see if he would corner CH about this but he didn't get
the chance.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Kevin, would you mind elaborating on the China news?
Carlos
Sorry to say it is my understanding that Yes they will. To be clear not all of
the rivets they produce are to be made in China, but as luck would have it ours
are and this is the only place they will be made as I understand it. Someone
else may want to chick on this, but be sure you are asking about the 1604-0412
rivets. The guy I spoke to seemed to know what he was talking about. I explained
thati was building a experimental aircraft and that he designer had specified
the use of English made avex rivets. He asked which avex rivets. when I told
him 1604-0412 and -0514's he said those particular ones used to be made in
the UK yes, but that plant had shut down a few months before as they were presently
moving its production to China. I asked, "so those particular rivets will
be made in China?" and he said "Yes, once the plant opens in October." (remember
this was in the spring). Incidently this was during Sun-n-Fun that I had
this conversation (I was home) so I calle
d a buddy of mine who was there to see if he would corner CH about this but he
didn't get the chance.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
Kevin, would you mind elaborating on the China news?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL New Fuel Valve Control Problem |
Bryan, thanks for the valve info. Obviously I am a bit confused. Good luck
in your testing, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
I thought it was only because of the 0235 Lyc. and the added 100 lbs. on the
nose that i was experiencing the trim, or should i say lack of trim problem.
what i ended up doing is cutting a wedge shape pc. of SM or insulation
board( used in the construction trade on the sides of new homes)
A peice 14" long,by 3" wide, cut in a wedge from 0 to 3/4" and with some 2
sided tape, stuck it under the trailing edge of the RHS elevator as a fixed
trim tab
(very inconspicuous i might add)
and Wha Lah........
for now it works wonderfull , hands off flight is now doable..
(One day i will make a new set of rear Horiz. Stab. brackets and raise the
rear attachment point by a 1/2" or so and then I'm guessing i should be able
to remove the added fixed trim tab.
dave.........C-FDSF XL 0235 Lyc.
>>
>>> At first my 601 XL wouldn't trim out even with no flaps. The >first
>>> thing I
>>> did was to duct tape an extension on the trim tab to see >what it would
>>> take
>>> to trim it out. With the tab nearly doubled in size it would >trim out
>>> but it
>>> still took most of the trim travel.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
As I have mentioned in previous posts, the return spring in the engine
pump provided the pressure regulation so no relief/regulator is built
it. I do find it somewhat interesting about the admonitions never to use
an engine driven pump when I flew a Grumman Cheetah for over ten years
and yes it has low wings and you only use the boast pumps for takeoff
and landings, I believe if memory serve me the the Cherokee 140 and 180
used the same system. These plane have been flying for decades with no
troubles. Oh and by the way I had the STP for the Cheetah for use of
auto fuel, the only change to the aircraft to comply was a decal on the
wing around the filler advising the auto fuel could be used.
Tim Shankland
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>Duh...Are you sure there isn't a hole in your diaphram there
>Thilo?....:)
>
>Interesting, the pump must have some kind of pressure relief/regulator
>built in?
>
>Hmm...Still you would never want to use the engine pump alone because it
>will now be sucking both uphill (with a hot pump) and through a dead
>Facet pump which will have some forward flow pressure drop...Never
>measured it though. So it still seems redundant on a Rotax, at least
>with low wing tanks.
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thilo Kind
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
>
>
>Hi Frank and all,
>
>I have the setup you described: Zodiac CH 601 HDS with L/E tanks, a
>Faucet pump in each bay (which I also use as tank selectors), and the
>Rotax 912 pump in series. During flight operations I always run one
>Faucet pump and the engine pump. I also have a fuel pressure sensor
>downstream of the engine driven pump. For test purposes I have switched
>off the Faucet pumps (yes, I'm fully aware of the purpose of vapor lock
>in this case - we fully agree on this subject. However, this was done
>just for test purposes). The interesting observation was, that the fuel
>presssure doesn't change at all. So, I assume, it doesn't matter from
>the perspective of over-pressuring the Bing whether or not the engine
>driven pump is installed.
>
>Happy flying
>
>Thilo Kind
>currently in Taiwan, where no general aviation exists :-(
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wizard-24(at)juno.com" <wizard-24(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
In reading all the emails in this thread -- has anyone that has taken a ride in
ZAC's XL demo noticed this same problem? Seems to me that if the demo has this
issue, ZAC would (should) have come up with a solution by now.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Project/1965 110 hp Engine for sale in Chicago |
Gentlemen...
I have relunctantly decided to sell my accumulated
Corvair project items. I have decided to build an
RV-9A instead of the 601XL. I say reluctantly because
I like the WW Corvair conversion...and I like the 601
too. But one has to choose in life...and so I will
not be proceeding with my Corvair project. And I need
to clean out the garage for the winter. Therefore the
following are for sale as a package...only to an
original purchaser of WW's Conversion Manual:
A.) 1965 110 hp engine. Case Code is T0420RF. This
is from a manual trans, A/C chassis. It is
appropriate as a starting point for the WW conversion.
It has been
externally power-washed. The engine has never been
taken apart...but it was removed from the chassis in
August 2004. It has the desirable 12-fin oil cooler.
The crank turns freely, although it will not turn past
360 degrees. Perhaps a stuck valve? I was told that
this engine was running until it was removed from the
chassis. I paid $200 for this engine in August 2004.
B.) All five WW Corvair Engine VHS Videos.
1. Introduction to Corvair Engines.
2. Corvair Engine Assembly - Part 1
3. Corvair Engine Assembly - Part 2
4. Corvair Engine Assembly - Part 3
5. Corvair Engine Installation Details
C.) A complete set of books as recommended in WW's
manual. This includes the following:
1. 1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual
2. Richard Finch's "How to keep your Corvair Alive"
3. Frederik Johnson's "Stop Corvair Lubricant Leaks"
4. A complete set of WW's "Corvair Flyer" back-issues.
5. Contact Issue #75...devoted to the Corvair
D.) If you're contemplating a Zenith CH601XL project
I'll throw in the latest Zenith Demo DVD (which I
purchased a couple of months ago)...and the older
Zenith 601XL information package/VHS video.
I'd like to sell all this together. I paid over $450
for all this...but will sell it for $300. It must be
picked up at my home in the heart of Chicago...1 mile
south of Meigs Field. Note that I am not selling my
WW conversion manual...as I believe anybody getting
started should purchase their own manual from WW.
Dan Vandenberg
H (312) 326-3376
C (312) 493-1231
W (708) 339-6321
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Not "Never" to use it just that it really is redundant to the low wing
pumps. The admonishment is never to use it alone....really what I meant
was never use it alone on take off and landing.
But than again, if you are flying at altitude on a warm day and your
engine driven pump locks up, do you really want to experience your
engine spluttering as the fuel pressure hits zero?
Sure you can restore the flow by flippig on the lo wing pumps but what
benefit is the engine pump actually giving you over two low wing
electric pumps by themselves?
Yes the engine pump gives you SOME additional redundancy but the
electric pumps should be fed from two independent electrical sources ( a
whole different discussion...:)..) so you effectively you have a
complete backup system with the two electric pumps as long as you don't
suck a tank dry...I never done it yet.
Its just that hydraulically speaking the engine pump is in the wrong
place and under the right conditions will vapour lock and is therefore a
poor backup to the low wing pumps.
Ok does that explain it now?...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim & Diane
Shankland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
-->
As I have mentioned in previous posts, the return spring in the engine
pump provided the pressure regulation so no relief/regulator is built
it. I do find it somewhat interesting about the admonitions never to use
an engine driven pump when I flew a Grumman Cheetah for over ten years
and yes it has low wings and you only use the boast pumps for takeoff
and landings, I believe if memory serve me the the Cherokee 140 and 180
used the same system. These plane have been flying for decades with no
troubles. Oh and by the way I had the STP for the Cheetah for use of
auto fuel, the only change to the aircraft to comply was a decal on the
wing around the filler advising the auto fuel could be used.
Tim Shankland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walt Cannon <grnlake(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing trailing edge |
Dirk,
Some others have proposed good assembly techniques to keep the trailing
edge straight. I did something else in addition that I have been very
pleased with. I bought some anodized AL 3/4 x .062 strip extrusion from
Home Depot and sandwiched it in between the upper and lower skins at the
TE. It helped to keep it much straighter and the end result is much more
robust when it comes to hangar rash etc. Of course, you will have to get
a grip length longer of the solid soft rivets,
Walt Cannon
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
1.40 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date": zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> BTW how would we test
> some of these? First we would have to get our hands on some that we knew were
> made there and run tests.
Maybe check with Zenair to see what they're doing with their kits? I
believe they did intial tests back 'when' which led to their admonition to
use the U.K. produced versions vs. the others. They could at least advise
us as to which ones they use/recommend now, and what their testing criteria
were. fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Project/1965 110 hp Engine for sale in Chicago |
The engine has never been
>taken apart...but it was removed from the chassis in
>August 2004. It has the desirable 12-fin oil cooler.
>The crank turns freely, although it will not turn past
>360 degrees. Perhaps a stuck valve?
Have disassembled 9-10 of these engines and have found four in this condition.
2 had thrown rods,both failed thru the windage tray and the other two had rust
,debris in one cyl that wouldn't let it go quite all the way around TDC. LOW&SLOW
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
As expected, my Matco bearings went on the nose wheel the other day. I'm
having a heck of a time removing the outer portion of the bearing from
the wheel. Can anyone tell me how you accomplished this?
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ 601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem |
Hi Frank,
pretty sure, there is no hole, but agree with you: the pump most certainly
has a pressure relief valve or similar built in.
Regarding having the engine pump alone: as said earlier, I'm fully agree
with you - I just did that as a test (for half a minute or so with the
airport in gliding distance) to see what happens in case the electrical
system failed.
To all of you: you are probably sick and tired of Frank preaching to y'all
about sucking fuel - especially mogas - uphill. But Frank is right on this.
Sucking fuel uphil is bad news and WILL most certainly lead to vapour lock.
Happy building / flying
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
>
> Duh...Are you sure there isn't a hole in your diaphram there
> Thilo?....:)
>
> Interesting, the pump must have some kind of pressure relief/regulator
> built in?
>
> Hmm...Still you would never want to use the engine pump alone because it
> will now be sucking both uphill (with a hot pump) and through a dead
> Facet pump which will have some forward flow pressure drop...Never
> measured it though. So it still seems redundant on a Rotax, at least
> with low wing tanks.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thilo Kind
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuel Valve and duel control problem
>
>
> Hi Frank and all,
>
> I have the setup you described: Zodiac CH 601 HDS with L/E tanks, a
> Faucet pump in each bay (which I also use as tank selectors), and the
> Rotax 912 pump in series. During flight operations I always run one
> Faucet pump and the engine pump. I also have a fuel pressure sensor
> downstream of the engine driven pump. For test purposes I have switched
> off the Faucet pumps (yes, I'm fully aware of the purpose of vapor lock
> in this case - we fully agree on this subject. However, this was done
> just for test purposes). The interesting observation was, that the fuel
> presssure doesn't change at all. So, I assume, it doesn't matter from
> the perspective of over-pressuring the Bing whether or not the engine
> driven pump is installed.
>
> Happy flying
>
> Thilo Kind
> currently in Taiwan, where no general aviation exists :-(
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Crvsecretary(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Remove bearings |
Hello Frank:
You've got a difficult job, no doubt. I am not aware of the details of the
design of the hub, but if your bearing disintragated, your options are few:
- drive out the bearing on the other side to get access to the outer race
of the destroyed bearing and drive it out from the other side. The advantage
of this is you'll replace TWO bearings when you're done...two new bearings
are better than 1 old & 1 new
- heat up the hub to loosen the fit and try to drive the outer race out (
good luck!)
- bring it to a machine shop that has an internal puller that can pull the
race only out
Good Luck!
Tracy
In a message dated 12/8/2004 10:15:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
fjones(at)sympatico.ca writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones"
As expected, my Matco bearings went on the nose wheel the other day. I'm
having a heck of a time removing the outer portion of the bearing from
the wheel. Can anyone tell me how you accomplished this?
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ 601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Fly Boy <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remove bearings |
I would like to install a different nose wheel (Grove possibly). Has anybody on
the list installed a non-Matco wheel on the front and if so can you give me
some advice on where to purchase such a nose wheel. My drawings show a Matco
5" wheel with a 5/8" solid axle. The Grove wheel has a 1-1/4" axle and an 800
lb capacity. This seems like overkill. Any ideas?
If Matco is the best choice can somebody provide me with a source for this wheel.
I need to order it in the next week or so.
Thanks.
Crvsecretary(at)aol.com wrote:
Hello Frank:
You've got a difficult job, no doubt. I am not aware of the details of the
design of the hub, but if your bearing disintragated, your options are few:
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gdascomb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 701 fuel sender unit |
I would like to hear from 701 builders about the new location of the fuel
sender. Revised 11-27/04. Questions. #1. What was the problem with the top
position of the sender?#2 Is it accepted practice to drill in the side of the
fuel tank?#3 What about safety wire on the sender.?..none shown on the pictures.
Thanks for ny comments .
George
Sugar Land, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 fuel sender unit |
George,
>I would like to hear from 701 builders about the new location of the fuel sender
Revised 11-27/04.
I looked over the new installation manuals for the new sender installation. The
sender is different than the one I received with my kit. The one I received needed
to be modified by cutting off and removing parts to get it to fit. The new
one just needs to be bent into the correct shape and has a new spade type center
terminal. I cannot say that the new installation on the side of the tank
might be more prone to leaking but it will be harder to get to for maintenance
or inspection. The sender lines up with the lightening hole in the rib so it
would be possible to get to it by putting an access panel alongside on bottom
of wing.If you have the dual tank option and you install the sender on the inboard
side of the outboard tank, it would be impossible to see or get to without
removing the tank. An outboard install would make sense here and I would bet
the new drawings reflect this. The manual shows the installation on the inboard
tank, inboard side only.
>What was the problem with the top
position of the sender?
The only problem with the top mounted sender was clearance of the center terminal
to the top wing skin. I resolved this by putting cork ring spacers on tank
around sender so it could not make contact. I made access panels with screws for
easy removal and inspection. These are CH approved.
See:
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b35a2673650c
I have seen others with domed covers. At Oshkosh HB camping this year I saw a nice
701 with removable lexan windows over the senders.
#2 Is it accepted practice to drill in the side of the
fuel tank?
I have seen 601 and RV builders doing this with their tanks.
>What about safety wire on the sender?..none shown on the pictures.
I did not use any, but I am considering this. You will have to drill the heads
of the screws provided. If you provide access, at least you can check them for
tightness.
Hope some of this helps.
archive
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Minearts" <smineart(at)kdsi.net> |
| Subject: | XL trim authority with full flap |
I rode in the factory XL with Jabiru, don't remember any issues. But I've noticed
on the demo video, when it takes off and makes a low takeoff pass, there is
a noticeable small porpoising, making it look very sensitive in pitch.
Steve M.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XL trim authority with full flap |
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
on 12/9/04 7:53 AM, The Minearts at smineart(at)kdsi.net wrote:
>
> I rode in the factory XL with Jabiru, don't remember any issues. But I've
> noticed on the demo video, when it takes off and makes a low takeoff pass,
> there is a noticeable small porpoising, making it look very sensitive in
> pitch.
That porpoising is probably because of the aft position of the main landing
gear. When you take off, you have to pull back on the stick and rotate for
lift-off, it won't lift off on its own like a high-wing Cessna. When you
rotate for lift-off, the plane pivots around the main landing gear, as soon
as you lift off, it wants to pivot around the CG and starts to pitch up. You
then have to immediately ease the back pressure and stabilize to a proper
climb attitude. It's easy to over compensate and cause a small bit of
oscillation before it stabilizes, the control forces are pretty light. Just
make sure you don't rotate until you are well above stall speed and don't
pull back too hard. I usually rotate at about 60 mph.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | New Rotax startup procedure |
Just got back from one of those Rotax 4 stroke seminars (3 day) held at LEAF in
Wisconsin.
Met a fellow 701 builder, Steve Johnson. Small world!
Wanted to share a tip I never heard before for ALL 912S owners. This is from Eric
Tucker, the Kodiak distributor rep:
IF you are still fighting violent engine shake at startup (important: assuming
you have the HD starter and slipper clutch already), then try the following:
TURN OFF one of your Mag circuits instead of turning them both on like you usually
do. Once the engine starts, THEN turn it on!
This technique has apprarently been met with great success in reducing the shakes
at startup. The theory is that a single mag retards the timing by just a little.
When shutting down, you can reverse the procudeure (shut off one mag), then the
the other. (if you are having shakes at shutdown) (I'm not referring to the shakes
you might get from experiencing one of my STOL 'in the tree' landings!)
This is not an official Rotax procedure, just a technique that has worked well
in the field. F W I W
Another 'news to me' thing is that there is a brand new carb socket introduced
by Rotax a month or two ago... harder rubber composition, NOT a mandatory replacement,
tho.
Jon Croke
www.CH701.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jonathan Starke" <Jonathan(at)entry.co.za> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912S Oil Cooler Mounting |
Hi List has anyone had this problem?
I have sent the query to ZAC, as follows:
Using instructions 912S Firewall Forward Section 5 for installing the Oil Cooler
on the
Rotax 912S
Installation of Bracket 6E6-5CZ is shown mounting to the rear Dynafocal Bracket
E3-
1X
I have drilled and mounted the barcket for fitting here, but when fitting the Lower
Cowl, the slot for the oil cooler is at least 10cm further forward.
In addition the exhaust cannister is only about 5mm behind the oil cooler!
Removing the engine again, and looking from the top, with the dynafocal mounts
in
place, it looks like the oil cooler should be hung from the front mount plate,
but the
bracket for the oil cooler is completely wrong.
Is there an updated bracket for fitting the oil cooler, such that it it fits in
the slot behind
the NACA scoop on the cowl?
Please help.
Jonathan Starke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net> |
| Subject: | Verner 13 M engine |
As the 701 takes shape I am looking at various engine options, wondering if anyone
considered the Verner engine?
80 hp, 2 cyl air cooled, on paper it lookslike a replacement for the expensive
912?
Thanks,
Dirk.
701 Piketberg SA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Carter <howado(at)cwia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Verner 13 M engine |
Dirk,
where do I find info on the Verner engine?
Howard Carter
Dirk Slabbert wrote:
>
>As the 701 takes shape I am looking at various engine options, wondering if anyone
considered the Verner engine?
>80 hp, 2 cyl air cooled, on paper it lookslike a replacement for the expensive
912?
>Thanks,
>Dirk.
>701 Piketberg SA.
>
>
>__________ NOD32 1.939 (20041203) Information __________
>
>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>http://www.nod32.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/09/04 |
Three things about our plane:
1. Engine startup and shutdown tip
2. Oil cooler mounting
3. 701 wing tank sending unit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Zenith-List
Digest Server
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/09/04
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-12-0
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9.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 12/09/04: 6
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Re: 701 fuel sender unit (RURUNY(at)aol.com)
2. 04:54 AM - XL trim authority with full flap (The Minearts)
3. 11:06 AM - Re: XL trim authority with full flap (Bryan Martin)
4. 12:46 PM - New Rotax startup procedure (Jon Croke)
5. 09:34 PM - Rotax 912S Oil Cooler Mounting (Jonathan Starke)
6. 10:48 PM - Verner 13 M engine (Dirk Slabbert)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: RURUNY(at)aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 fuel sender unit
encoding
encoding
George,
>I would like to hear from 701 builders about the new location of the fuel
sender
Revised 11-27/04.
I looked over the new installation manuals for the new sender installation.
The
sender is different than the one I received with my kit. The one I received
needed
to be modified by cutting off and removing parts to get it to fit. The new
one just needs to be bent into the correct shape and has a new spade type
center
terminal. I cannot say that the new installation on the side of the tank
might be more prone to leaking but it will be harder to get to for
maintenance
or inspection. The sender lines up with the lightening hole in the rib so it
would be possible to get to it by putting an access panel alongside on
bottom
of wing.If you have the dual tank option and you install the sender on the
inboard
side of the outboard tank, it would be impossible to see or get to without
removing the tank. An outboard install would make sense here and I would bet
the new drawings reflect this. The manual shows the installation on the
inboard
tank, inboard side only.
>What was the problem with the top
position of the sender?
The only problem with the top mounted sender was clearance of the center
terminal
to the top wing skin. I resolved this by putting cork ring spacers on tank
around sender so it could not make contact. I made access panels with screws
for
easy removal and inspection. These are CH approved.
See:
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b35a2673650c
I have seen others with domed covers. At Oshkosh HB camping this year I saw
a nice
701 with removable lexan windows over the senders.
#2 Is it accepted practice to drill in the side of the
fuel tank?
I have seen 601 and RV builders doing this with their tanks.
>What about safety wire on the sender?..none shown on the pictures.
I did not use any, but I am considering this. You will have to drill the
heads
of the screws provided. If you provide access, at least you can check them
for
tightness.
Hope some of this helps.
archive
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "The Minearts" <smineart(at)kdsi.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL trim authority with full flap
I rode in the factory XL with Jabiru, don't remember any issues. But I've
noticed
on the demo video, when it takes off and makes a low takeoff pass, there is
a noticeable small porpoising, making it look very sensitive in pitch.
Steve M.
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL trim authority with full flap
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
on 12/9/04 7:53 AM, The Minearts at smineart(at)kdsi.net wrote:
>
> I rode in the factory XL with Jabiru, don't remember any issues. But I've
> noticed on the demo video, when it takes off and makes a low takeoff pass,
> there is a noticeable small porpoising, making it look very sensitive in
> pitch.
That porpoising is probably because of the aft position of the main landing
gear. When you take off, you have to pull back on the stick and rotate for
lift-off, it won't lift off on its own like a high-wing Cessna. When you
rotate for lift-off, the plane pivots around the main landing gear, as soon
as you lift off, it wants to pivot around the CG and starts to pitch up. You
then have to immediately ease the back pressure and stabilize to a proper
climb attitude. It's easy to over compensate and cause a small bit of
oscillation before it stabilizes, the control forces are pretty light. Just
make sure you don't rotate until you are well above stall speed and don't
pull back too hard. I usually rotate at about 60 mph.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: New Rotax startup procedure
Just got back from one of those Rotax 4 stroke seminars (3 day) held at LEAF
in
Wisconsin.
Met a fellow 701 builder, Steve Johnson. Small world!
Wanted to share a tip I never heard before for ALL 912S owners. This is
from Eric
Tucker, the Kodiak distributor rep:
IF you are still fighting violent engine shake at startup (important:
assuming
you have the HD starter and slipper clutch already), then try the following:
TURN OFF one of your Mag circuits instead of turning them both on like you
usually
do. Once the engine starts, THEN turn it on!
This technique has apprarently been met with great success in reducing the
shakes
at startup. The theory is that a single mag retards the timing by just a
little.
When shutting down, you can reverse the procudeure (shut off one mag), then
the
the other. (if you are having shakes at shutdown) (I'm not referring to the
shakes
you might get from experiencing one of my STOL 'in the tree' landings!)
This is not an official Rotax procedure, just a technique that has worked
well
in the field. F W I W
Another 'news to me' thing is that there is a brand new carb socket
introduced
by Rotax a month or two ago... harder rubber composition, NOT a mandatory
replacement,
tho.
Jon Croke
www.CH701.com
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
From: "Jonathan Starke" <Jonathan(at)entry.co.za>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S Oil Cooler Mounting
Hi List has anyone had this problem?
I have sent the query to ZAC, as follows:
Using instructions 912S Firewall Forward Section 5 for installing the Oil
Cooler
on the
Rotax 912S
Installation of Bracket 6E6-5CZ is shown mounting to the rear Dynafocal
Bracket
E3-
1X
I have drilled and mounted the barcket for fitting here, but when fitting
the Lower
Cowl, the slot for the oil cooler is at least 10cm further forward.
In addition the exhaust cannister is only about 5mm behind the oil cooler!
Removing the engine again, and looking from the top, with the dynafocal
mounts
in
place, it looks like the oil cooler should be hung from the front mount
plate,
but the
bracket for the oil cooler is completely wrong.
Is there an updated bracket for fitting the oil cooler, such that it it fits
in
the slot behind
the NACA scoop on the cowl?
Please help.
Jonathan Starke
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
From: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Verner 13 M engine
As the 701 takes shape I am looking at various engine options, wondering if
anyone
considered the Verner engine?
80 hp, 2 cyl air cooled, on paper it lookslike a replacement for the
expensive
912?
Thanks,
Dirk.
701 Piketberg SA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cleone Markwell <cleone(at)rr1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Rotax startup procedure |
Wish I'd known that for the last three years. Ha. Well, it always
bothered me, but as soon as it settled down I soon forgot about it. Cleone
At 02:45 PM 12/9/04, you wrote:
>
>Just got back from one of those Rotax 4 stroke seminars (3 day) held at
>LEAF in Wisconsin.
>
>Met a fellow 701 builder, Steve Johnson. Small world!
>
>Wanted to share a tip I never heard before for ALL 912S owners. This is
>from Eric Tucker, the Kodiak distributor rep:
>
>IF you are still fighting violent engine shake at startup (important:
>assuming you have the HD starter and slipper clutch already), then try the
>following:
>TURN OFF one of your Mag circuits instead of turning them both on like you
>usually do. Once the engine starts, THEN turn it on!
>
>This technique has apprarently been met with great success in reducing the
>shakes at startup. The theory is that a single mag retards the timing by
>just a little.
>
>When shutting down, you can reverse the procudeure (shut off one mag),
>then the the other. (if you are having shakes at shutdown) (I'm not
>referring to the shakes you might get from experiencing one of my STOL 'in
>the tree' landings!)
>
>This is not an official Rotax procedure, just a technique that has worked
>well in the field. F W I W
>
>Another 'news to me' thing is that there is a brand new carb socket
>introduced by Rotax a month or two ago... harder rubber composition, NOT a
>mandatory replacement, tho.
>
>Jon Croke
>www.CH701.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 701 Upper Channel Reinforcement |
Wondering if 701 builders have advice about adding two std L's on the
7F7-1SP, Upper Channel.
Earlier plans showed the two added Ls, when the material was somewhat thinner.
The 7F7-1SP is now .063 material. Wonder if that is holding up to rough field
use?
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=beta; d=gmail.com;
b=WmfXzwSTze/Pu7IobPBVKMq7H81fLUORWcilXPUlmNQ8YESiHbNzW7eIXzA4P5SikEz8LtY6cpvW7UyBeiUUhugbvxduf7kZgESavZT3jz2ijpcEddJRFxtBTK9morHoIsSdidCg9srianMC7I40MCdKzmsi4uPkruml1HuzBHwReceived:
by 10.54.46.54 with SMTP id t54mr827959wrt;
| From: | Ihab Awad <ihab.awad(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Verner 13 M engine |
> where do I find info on the Verner engine?
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/sunfun02/verner_aircraftengine.htm
Peace,
Ihab
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Kinney <kkinney(at)fuse.net> |
| Subject: | CNC former photo request |
I'm writing an article for our EAA 174 newsletter about using CNC in the home workshop.
I use CNC based rib forms as an example.
Would anyone have a photo of a CNC machine cutting a rib form? Alternately, I
could a picture of a CNC'd rib form in use.
Thank you in advance,
Kevin Kinney
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=NVxABJsqWVKMaO0fxuilRKkGH9c4ugFYnf0HWufnFb3zguVz4ffRsHzM6ic9SRnR6islcXGhPYpu05i6Iit+iCPP+5iEeVHaGjmOt5EC+gZF3N8GV1q0xOE/Ecbi3gt6jruVWBVVLXtu7KAz9qgdGC0IEPR9NotJP2EfeRZ920A;
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Upper Channel Reinforcement |
Jerry,
I think the front wheel assembly and firewall are strong enough in the Zenith airplanes
... Just one advise: Remember always to land on the Main Landing Gear
with the empenage) then the wheel will lower by itself. even in regular
mantained grass strips this is possible...
In case of an emergency landing (deadstick) fly the airplane all the way down
to the last moment and then do as best as you can to walk away, plane goes second
and can be rebuilt or build another one if you are in one piece...
Just one thing: Maybe only if you use the heavier Soobs or Corvair, you might
as well reinforce A LITTLE BIT this area... first ask ZAC off course as with
all mods in structural area, in cosmetics you can do as you want trying to not
add (to much) Weight.
If you take care of your plane,you are taking care of yourself.as a free bonus...
My .02 centavos
Saludos
Gary Gower.
JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com wrote:
Wondering if 701 builders have advice about adding two std L's on the
7F7-1SP, Upper Channel.
Earlier plans showed the two added Ls, when the material was somewhat thinner.
The 7F7-1SP is now .063 material. Wonder if that is holding up to rough field
use?
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Heater and battery charging ports |
Hi Guys,
Well, with snow and freezing temps becoming the norm, I finished putting together
a common heater, with bungee-attached flex-tube and adapter for warming my
Stratus's engine oil, seen at the bottom of the Completions page and more recently
seen at the bottom of the Electrical page, a dual battery charging port that
keeps both battery circuits separate and does permit external access avoids
having to climb in to hook them up. This is not for starting, but only for charging.
There's an oval cover that uses Dzus fasteners to close and seal the
ports. I'm using two Battery tender chargers with cigarette receptacle-plugs
to make connection simple and basic. Didn't like the bulk of the Cole-Hersey
type but this seems to work real well on the underside.
Fly safe,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS - 47 hours
www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)ciaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Verner 13 M engine |
>
>As the 701 takes shape I am looking at various engine options, wondering
>if anyone considered the Verner engine?
A guy in Hungary has one in a 601
http://www.ultralight.hu/zodiac601/zkepgaleria.htm
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <FlyinK(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Verner 13 M engine |
> where do I find info on the Verner engine?
http://www.flydiver.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Front Fork Doubler |
A couple of monts ago there was discussion about the need for a doubler on
the
front fork of the XL ,similar to the HD & HDS. Someone, I believe had
contacted
Nick. Was there ever any final info given as to whether or not the XL will
need this
doubler?
Any update would be appreciated
Thnaks
George May
601XL--left wing completed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | PegaStol Service openings |
0.44 FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS Outlook can't send HTML in this format
On the PegaStol wings there are a total of 24 little round service doors. I installed
one the other day and had a hell'vu time getting it back out. I can get
them out, but I would skin my paint because I would have to use some kind of
tool. Have any of the other PegaStol wing owners figured this out? There must
be an easy way.
And, a general question, do all service door/openings have to be open during the
airworthiness inspection?
Larry N1345L
My Site www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
For anyone interested. The procedure that worked for removing the
bearings was to heat the wheel in the oven at 500 degrees then whack the
wheel on a board until the bearing comes out. On one wheel it came out
after 10 or 15 hits. The other was tougher and required 3 times in the
oven, some oil and 100 or so hits.
Matco suggested machining the wheels to accept a tapered bearing to
handle side load. I stuck with the regular bearings but added a bushing
between the wheel halves - getting the right length for the bushing
requires care. This approach should substantially improve side load
handling capacity.
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ 601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | XL Front Fork Doubler |
I got the same response from Zenith and sent a follow-up message last
week. No response so far.
Frank Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joemotis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: XL Front Fork Doubler |
Hi Joe my name is...
Joe. I am also building a 601 XL. And would like to ask you what are the
details on that very robust looking fork?
Did you make it?
If you did I am sure the list would appreciate how. ( at least this member
!!! )
If you did not would the person who made it be interested in making another?
Thanks
Joe Motis 601XL
Jab 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wizard-24(at)juno.com" <wizard-24(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Front Fork Doubler |
Interesting about the nose fork situation, and very surprising that ZAC hasn't
issued a bulletin about this. In looking at the thumbnail pictures provided by
one poster (I think it was Joe), I couldn't see on the picture of the old fork
where there was any deformity caused by bending. Makes me curious if there was
something else wrong with the part, like maybe too narrow where the tire was
rubbing against it?
The other thing (and I'm certainly no aerospace engineer) is that the fork shouldn't
be subjected to that much stress, in that the bungee should be absorbing
a great deal of the impact on landing.
To be clear: I'm not questioning Joe's solution, just trying to understand better
before replacing parts.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joemotis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: XL Front Fork Doubler |
Hi Mike
Take a look at the pics on joe e site.
under swedish mufflers. The fork is waaay bent.
Joe Motis
601 XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | xl <xl(at)prosody.org> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Front Fork Doubler |
It's fine to question my ideas. I thought about it awhile before
replacing the nose fork. I decided to stay with the Zenith design
but use thicker metal. The new fork is about 1 pound heavier than
the old fork. The landing force - straight down isn't the problem.
The problem is the side load. If I stood on the side of the old
fork it would bend almost to the ground. The new fork moves about
1/2". And try pushing the nose back and forth - lots of sway.
(The same side load can cause the stock front wheel main bearings
to fail. Tapered roller bearings fit the application better. BTW
I didn't have to machine the wheel to fit tapered roller bearings.)
The bend radius is larger for the thicker metal so I had to cut and
thread a longer axle. The 5/8" mild steel rod is a few dollars.
And -- from the archive:
> Message: #30434 From: "burylhill" <bus(at)commspeed.net>
> Subject: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: CH601 XL nose wheel fork
> Date: Oct 29, 2004
> .......snip The Factory demo 601 XL bent the nose gear on the way to
> Copperstate. Nick would know what they at the factory to fix it.
I bought the metal at: http://www.onlinemetals.com/
1 piece @ $33.44/piece
Aluminum 6061-T6 Bare, Plate 0.375" Cut to: 4" x 22"
Shipping Cost: $0.00 (they're a couple miles from me in Seattle.)
Cut Fee: $0.00 Tax: $2.94
I had the metal cut + bent at (a few blocks from onlinemetals):
J & R Metal Craft Inc, 15 Nickerson St, Seattle, WA, (206) 284-0632
The owner was happy to make an airplane part.
No way I could bend it myself, needs some serious pressure......
And I got lazy and had them cut it. ~$60 for the bend, ~$30 for the cut.
And I finally got to fly over Seattle at night today!
The past few weeks I had to stay in the pattern because of the weather.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
144 hours
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, wizard-24(at)juno.com wrote:
> ....snip
> The other thing (and I'm certainly no aerospace engineer) is that the
> fork shouldn't be subjected to that much stress, in that the bungee
> should be absorbing a great deal of the impact on landing.
> To be clear: I'm not questioning Joe's solution, just trying to
> understand better before replacing parts.
> Mike Fortunato 601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | scotty scotty <scotty245(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Mounting engine in 701? |
I'm needing some advise on positioning the engine onto the mount. First i went
with an alternate engine, the Hirth F30 100hp 2cycle. As far as i know(according
to ZAC) this will be the first 701 with this combo...anyone else? I tig
welded my mount and after placing the engine onto the mount i have less clearance
for engine than i need to allow movement and vibration.
ZAC recommended about 4 degrees downward and 4 degrees offcenter to left(as sitting
in plane), and said this may not have to be that precise... i just want
it to fly correctly. Not wanting to cut and patch the mount i what to know what
everyone thinks of sliding the entire engine approx 1/2" to the left of centerline
while keeping angles the same? The other possiblility i have is going
with only 2 degrees left.
Lastly, what seems to be the best and simplest way to build the cowling, all fiberglass,
aluminum, or fiberglass front piece then the rest aluminum. How difficult
is it to get the fiberglass shape and look right?
Scotty Armstead
scotty245(at)yahoo.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting engine in 701? |
I just centered mine, left/right up/down. I figured it would be easier to
trim with elevator trim and use my spring loaded rudder petal rods to
actually trim the rudder. It takes several flights on no wind days to get
the rudder trimmed out to suit you. It would also be easy to put a bendable
trim tab on the rudder, like gyros do. It doesn't matter what you do, you
are going to have to trim it anyway, so why not start on a center line.
Just my opinion, Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "scotty scotty" <scotty245(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting engine in 701?
>
> I'm needing some advise on positioning the engine onto the mount. First i
went with an alternate engine, the Hirth F30 100hp 2cycle. As far as i
know(according to ZAC) this will be the first 701 with this combo...anyone
else? I tig welded my mount and after placing the engine onto the mount i
have less clearance for engine than i need to allow movement and vibration.
>
> ZAC recommended about 4 degrees downward and 4 degrees offcenter to
left(as sitting in plane), and said this may not have to be that precise...
i just want it to fly correctly. Not wanting to cut and patch the mount i
what to know what everyone thinks of sliding the entire engine approx 1/2"
to the left of centerline while keeping angles the same? The other
possiblility i have is going with only 2 degrees left.
>
> Lastly, what seems to be the best and simplest way to build the cowling,
all fiberglass, aluminum, or fiberglass front piece then the rest aluminum.
How difficult is it to get the fiberglass shape and look right?
>
> Scotty Armstead
> scotty245(at)yahoo.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
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| From: | roy vickski <rvickski(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | re Mounting engine in 701? |
Scotty,
My 4th edition plans 7-E-1 top drawing show 3 degrees
left for the rotax mount.
The middle drawing shows 107deg from firewall to bed
mount, referenced to drawing 7-F-15 top drawing,
indicates zero degree downthrust.
I incorporated zero down thrust for my mount.
My particular engine rotates opposite standard so I
have to angle my engine to the right. Does the Hirth
rotate clockwise or CCW when viewed from cockpit?
Which edition plans are you working from, how recently
were you told about 4 deg down thrust?
Curious
Roy
701 plans
engine plumbing and electrical, ect.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com> |
Have any other folks currently flying a 601XL experienced similar problems
as indicated by Joe E, requiring a beefer nose fork?
George May
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Ammeter vs. Voltmeter |
Hey Gang,
Can someone comment on the pros & cons of Ammeter vs. Voltmeter? I will be running
a WW Corvair Conversion (with alternator). Electronics will include pos. lights,
inst. lights, navcom,... pretty light duty.
Thanks
Gary Boothe
WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
Rudder complete, impatiently awaiting
Tail Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Ammeter vs. Voltmeter |
Sorry, Gang. Found all sorts of stuff in the archives!
Gary Boothe
WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
Rudder complete, impatiently awaiting
Tail Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Crvsecretary(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter vs. Voltmeter |
Hello Gary:
Voltmeter is MUCH easier to install. You can see the condition of the battery
and charging system with the voltleter - over 13.8 is a charging situation, less
than 13.8 is a charging problem.
Ammeters are difficult to install unless you have a shunt-type ammeter. An Ammeter
will tell you RATE of charge or discharge, but not anything else.
Just my two cents worth, YMMV.
Tracy
In a message dated 12/12/2004 7:18:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Gary A. Boothe"
writes:
>
>Hey Gang,
>
>Can someone comment on the pros & cons of Ammeter vs. Voltmeter? I will be running
a WW Corvair Conversion (with alternator). Electronics will include pos.
lights, inst. lights, navcom,... pretty light duty.
>
>Thanks
>Gary Boothe
>WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
>Rudder complete, impatiently awaiting
>Tail Kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: re Mounting engine in 701? |
Roy,
I have to ask where you are looking from?
If the prop turns anticlock from the pilot's seat, the rear of the engine is
moved to the starboard, (right), leaving the prop flange on the aircraft
centreline and pointing the engine to the left.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Glasserow" <jeffglass(at)starband.net> |
| Subject: | ch601 HDS Nose Gear Bungees |
I've got to replace the bungee(s) on my nosegear. I assume it uses #1080's,
but how many? Also, Aircraft Spruce has a #1080 HD (heavy duty) Would
there be any benefit to using these as replacements, or should I stay with
the specified 1080's?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Jeff Glasserow
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | scotty scotty <scotty245(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re Mounting engine in 701? |
Roy: I spoke with Sebastian about 2 weeks ago at ZAC reguarding the 4 degrees
downthrust(angle). My prints are older ones(2001) so i thought it best to ask.
I believe this helps the 701 to fly level with less control pressure or trim...maybe
someone else can help me here???
Yes, Dave the setup you referred to is what ZAC said. The Hirth's prop will swing
counter clock(from seat) and the rear of engine sits to right of centerline(from
seat). After working on the mount this afternoon, measuring, and a refresher
in trig on calculating angles, i have around 2.5 degrees. If this isn't
enough, would anything be hurt by swinging just the front(prop end) of engine
about 1/2 inch to left of centerline, which would get the full 4 degrees?
Thanks for all the input!
Scotty
roy vickski wrote:
Scotty,
My 4th edition plans 7-E-1 top drawing show 3 degrees
left for the rotax mount.
The middle drawing shows 107deg from firewall to bed
mount, referenced to drawing 7-F-15 top drawing,
indicates zero degree downthrust.
I incorporated zero down thrust for my mount.
My particular engine rotates opposite standard so I
have to angle my engine to the right. Does the Hirth
rotate clockwise or CCW when viewed from cockpit?
Which edition plans are you working from, how recently
were you told about 4 deg down thrust?
Curious
Roy
701 plans
engine plumbing and electrical, ect.
__________________________________
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)thegateway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re Mounting engine in 701? |
Scotty,
Almost three years ago, ZAC told me the thrust line for the 701 should be
between zero and one degree down and 3 degrees to the side (right for a
Jabiru). Mine is set at 1/2 down but I have to trim a lot down at full
power, one degree down may have been better.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "roy vickski" <rvickski(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: re Mounting engine in 701?
>
> Scotty,
>
> My 4th edition plans 7-E-1 top drawing show 3 degrees
> left for the rotax mount.
>
> The middle drawing shows 107deg from firewall to bed
> mount, referenced to drawing 7-F-15 top drawing,
> indicates zero degree downthrust.
>
> I incorporated zero down thrust for my mount.
>
> My particular engine rotates opposite standard so I
> have to angle my engine to the right. Does the Hirth
> rotate clockwise or CCW when viewed from cockpit?
>
> Which edition plans are you working from, how recently
> were you told about 4 deg down thrust?
>
> Curious
> Roy
> 701 plans
> engine plumbing and electrical, ect.
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Morawski" <morawski(at)highway1.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: PegaStol Service openings |
Hi Larry,
I never had any trouble getting them little covers out. Just grab them with
your fingernails and lift them clear a bit and then slide to one side til
the clip lets go of the other side. Not a problem.
I guess our inspection details are different in Australia but I left mine
off for inspection.
Rick Morawski
morawski(at)highway1.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: PegaStol Service openings
>
> On the PegaStol wings there are a total of 24 little round service doors.
I installed one the other day and had a hell'vu time getting it back out.
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | roy vickski <rvickski(at)yahoo.com> |
Dave,
I'm viewing the crankshaft centerline from the seat
with the prophub on the aircraft centerline. Rotation
is CCW.
Sorry for the confusion.
It seems to me the more downthrust one has the more
the airframe will be pitch sensitive to power changes?
Makes one leary of fabbing up a finnished cowl, I
think I will leave extra room around the hub (and
everywhere else) so I can jack up the rear of the
motor if flight testing dictates or if ZAC carves the
spec in stone.
Still curious
Regards
Roy
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re 701 mount |
When Tech Weld in Paducah, Kentucky was building my engine mount, Ed the
owner, told me he called Chris about location of the center thrust line. Ed
said that Chris said it didn't matter on the 701 because the aircraft was
very forgiving and easily trimmed. Just repeating what I was told.
Larry N1345L
www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "roy vickski" <rvickski(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: re 701 mount
>
> Dave,
> I'm viewing the crankshaft centerline from the seat
> with the prophub on the aircraft centerline. Rotation
> is CCW.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> It seems to me the more downthrust one has the more
> the airframe will be pitch sensitive to power changes?
>
> Makes one leary of fabbing up a finnished cowl, I
> think I will leave extra room around the hub (and
> everywhere else) so I can jack up the rear of the
> motor if flight testing dictates or if ZAC carves the
> spec in stone.
>
> Still curious
> Regards
> Roy
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Brown" <kentbrown(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | XL Front Fork Doubler |
If the fork and gear leg are the same as the HDS, why not just get the HDS
doubler (and fork if you want to completely start over) from ZAC? I haven't
seen the XL plans, so may be all wet, but thought I'd do 2 cents.
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <normskiroo(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | XL Trim authority with full flap |
Hello and a thank you to all of you who contributed with advice on the problem
of trim with full flap, I am at present awaiting Czech Airworks to come up with
the fix and will post a message here to inform you all of the outcome.
Hopefully within the next couple of weeks.
Thanks once again.
Norman Butcher
England
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Radio/Intercom Hook-up |
| From: | "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com> |
Hello Guru's of the Zenith List,
I come to you all again with a question about wiring my radio and intercom in our
601XL. Here is my problem, I am trying to integrate a ICOM A200 Radio/tranceiever
with a Flight com Model 403C Voice activated intercom, with Ray Allen
Company Duel-PTT switches, aileron and elevator trim controls G205 (pilot), G201
(co-pilot)Stick Grips.
As we all know that it is sometimes no easy task to follow multiple direction and
get things to work. The intercom is working between my headsets. However,
when I try to transmit on the ICOM or my Handheld I am not picking anything up?
I think I may have missed something critical between the hook-up vernacular
of the Intercoms DB 25 pin set-up and the MOLEX set-up for the ICOM unit.
In terms of wiring the two sytems it seem easy enough, but I'm not getting the
percieved results...FRUSTRATED. In terms of the directions and language used
I believe that the TRANSMIT KEYLINE MEANS a hook-up to the co-pilot/pilot PTT
wires. The TRANSMIT AUDIO comes from the Pilot/co-pilot MICS and so on.
I need help and I am almost at the end of my wiring. DYNON, flaps, lights....etc.
all done! Any information would be helpful.
Thanks so much,
Jeff and Peter Paris
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Fly Boy <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Front Fork Doubler |
Scott Laughlin here. (changed email address due to problems with hotmail)
In order to clear up some of the confusion I have posted the "wheel fork" portion
of my XL nose gear drawing on my website at:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/XL_NoseGear.jpg
I purchased a slab of 3/8" 6061-T6, so my gear is double the thickness called out
in the drawing. If somebody has a scan of the HD/HDS drawing they can send
me, I'll post it as a comparison.
Happy building,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
The XL uses standard 5.00 X 5 aircraft tires, I believe the HD/HDS used
larger "wheel barrow" tires. The forks are probably not the same size.
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
In Phase I testing.
---------------------------------
Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.
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| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Front Fork Doubler |
I asked Nick Heintz about a drawing so I could use a 6.00 X 6 nosewheel on the
XL and he sent me drawings of two forks - primary and alternate for the 801.
One is .325" (3/8) mild steel and the other is of .500" 6061-T6. If anyone wants
I can sent the .jpgs or if enough interest, I will post on the ch601.org
website.
David
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
---------------------------------
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| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Front Fork Doubler |
Hi Scott,
Did you bend the 3/8" flat bar yet? Can you keep a
bend radius small enough?
HD/HDS use a narrow wheel... mine is wider since I use
a 15X600X6 tire mounted on a 600X6 wheel. I'm
considering changing that for a 500X5 wheel to save
drag and weight.
Michel
--- Fly Boy wrote:
>
>
> Scott Laughlin here. (changed email address due to
> problems with hotmail)
>
> In order to clear up some of the confusion I have
> posted the "wheel fork" portion of my XL nose gear
> drawing on my website at:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/XL_NoseGear.jpg
>
> I purchased a slab of 3/8" 6061-T6, so my gear is
> double the thickness called out in the drawing. If
> somebody has a scan of the HD/HDS drawing they can
> send me, I'll post it as a comparison.
>
> Happy
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom Hook-up |
Jeff,
I had a similar experience hooking up my dual microair 760's to the
flightcom. I suggest you contact Bruce at Flightcom. He will give you the help
you need.
Mike Sigman
601XL N7092N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Knezacek" <dan(at)knezacek.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: ch601 HDS Nose Gear Bungees |
I believe that the 1080 HDs are better, especially if you're using a heavier
engine like a Subaru, or if you have the 1200 lb gross weight.
I'm using the 1080 HDs. Seems to me that Chris Heintz said that the 1080
HDs were preferrable in one of the newsletters.
Dan
>
>
> I've got to replace the bungee(s) on my nosegear. I assume it uses
> #1080's,
> but how many? Also, Aircraft Spruce has a #1080 HD (heavy duty) Would
> there be any benefit to using these as replacements, or should I stay with
> the specified 1080's?
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
> Jeff Glasserow
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter vs. Voltmeter |
To give my two cents worth. On larger aircraft like the KC-135 we use an
ammeter or load meter to determine the state of the Transformer Rectifiers
(converting AC to DC) and a voltmeter to determine the state of the battery.
One of the uses of the TR is to charge the battery. So if the battery is
low you check the load meter to see if the TR is putting out any current.
You can also check the load meter to see if there is too much load being
drawn by a bus. One of the other uses of the load meter when checking the
battery is to see how much current is being drawn. If the TR is reading high
then the battery may be in an overcharge condition or a thermal runaway.
This is a concern with NiCad type batteries and not lead acid. If this is
the case we disconnect the bad one (we have two) and send someone back to
check it.
The main point for any instrument is to determine what actions one would
take with different readings. If the voltage is 13.5 volts on a 12 volt
system then you know that it is charging. If it is low then it is not and it
is time to land. I am not sure what actions you would take with the
readings from a load meter with our system. If you want to check the
condition of the battery you would be better off performing regular
maintenance. I am just planning on a voltmeter. I would love to hear the
reasons on this aircraft for a load meter.
Cheers
Matt Archer
601 XL Rudder done!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Ammeter vs. Voltmeter
>
> Hey Gang,
>
> Can someone comment on the pros & cons of Ammeter vs. Voltmeter? I will be
> running a WW Corvair Conversion (with alternator). Electronics will
> include pos. lights, inst. lights, navcom,... pretty light duty.
>
> Thanks
> Gary Boothe
> WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
> Rudder complete, impatiently awaiting
> Tail Kit
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cdngoose" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
Today I was asked my estimated costs of scratch building my 601XL, I
just now realized I left a few things out !! Here they are
* Loss of income, too tired to go to work after shaping ribs
$4000
* Car repair, salt damage from building 601 in garage
$800
* Stitches in finger/Look up loss of income as well
$50
* Vacation for Wife ( cheaper then divorce) while using chromate
$2000
* Eight pair of pants chromate/fiberglass( too stiff for church)
$140
* 2 dozen shirts see above
$90
* Tools one time use
$2000
* Hospital visit ( sniffing Chromate/fiberglass resin)
$500
* Beer & Coffee for visitors ( 4 years supply)
$1200
* Snacks for same as above
$300
* Bigger Garage, with attached house, so wife was happier
$300,000
* Total on top of kit and FWF
$311080
Being able to tell wife you have the kids I'm going flying
-Priceless!!!!!!
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Stone" <kenneths(at)magma.ca> |
Ha !!!! just showed the list to my wife..........she didnt get
it..............oh well back to the shop with me !!! ( where I belong )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cdngoose" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Other Costs
>
> Today I was asked my estimated costs of scratch building my 601XL, I
> just now realized I left a few things out !! Here they are
> * Loss of income, too tired to go to work after shaping ribs
> $4000
> * Car repair, salt damage from building 601 in garage
> $800
> * Stitches in finger/Look up loss of income as well
> $50
> * Vacation for Wife ( cheaper then divorce) while using chromate
> $2000
> * Eight pair of pants chromate/fiberglass( too stiff for church)
> $140
> * 2 dozen shirts see above
> $90
> * Tools one time use
> $2000
> * Hospital visit ( sniffing Chromate/fiberglass resin)
> $500
> * Beer & Coffee for visitors ( 4 years supply)
> $1200
> * Snacks for same as above
> $300
> * Bigger Garage, with attached house, so wife was happier
> $300,000
> * Total on top of kit and FWF
> $311080
>
> Being able to tell wife you have the kids I'm going flying
> -Priceless!!!!!!
>
>
> Mark Townsend
> Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
> Osprey 2 serial # 751
> www.ch601.org
> www.Osprey2.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? |
A follow-up on the Avex rivets issue (see Kevin's text at the bottom of this note
for context):
I wrote to ZAC asking about sourcing the rivets:
------
We were told that the UK factory was closed, and the rivets
are now (starting in October 2004) manufactured in China.
Has ZAC tested the rivets from the new source yet?
Any recommendations regarding the sourcing of pop rivets
in light of these events?
------
I sent the note above on Dec/08. Nothing yet, which is rather unusual. More often
than not, ZAC
replies within 24 h.
So, I wrote to Flypass, the Canadian distributor for Zenair aircraft.
Below is the dialog:
------
Carlos,
We order our rivets from Aircraft Spruce in the US
because we consider their prices to be the best.
I suggest that you do the same, otherwise you will
end up paying a handling charge from us, or any
other company in Canada. Aircraft Spruce will
supply in 24 hours.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael G. Lee
Flypass Aircraft Co. Ltd.
------
Surprising, to say the least.
If and when I hear from ZAC, I'll post an update.
Carlos
(CH601-HD, rebuilding centre spar)
--- kevinbonds(at)comcast.net wrote:
> ... I explained that i was building a experimental aircraft and that he designer
had
> specified the use of English made avex rivets. He asked which avex rivets. when
I told him
> 1604-0412 and -0514's he said those particular ones used to be made in the UK
yes, but that
> plant had shut down a few months before as they were presently moving its production
to China. I
> asked, "so those particular rivets will be made in China?" and he said "Yes,
once the plant
> opens in October." (remember this was in the spring).
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Fly Boy <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi everyone. Russel Johnson sent me a snippet from his 1998 HD/HDS drawings and
I've cut and pasted the two wheel fork drawings so everyone can see the difference
and make up your own mind. See the drawings on my website in ".JPG" format
at:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/WheelForkComparison.jpg
David Barth and Mark Townsend if you want to copy this over to CH601.ORG, please
feel free to do so.
Happy building,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
---------------------------------
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| From: | Phil Raker <phadr1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Partial HD to be for sale |
Hello, List,
I believe I remember seeing on this list that someone was looking for a
601-HD, partially completed. Well, I know of one which will probably be for
sale soon. The condition of the plane (as told to me - I haven't seen it) is
as follows:
Fuselage - complete, on gear (tri), brakes plumbed & installed
Wings - complete, not mounted, LE tanks
Rudder & Stabilizer - complete, not mounted
Canopy - mounted (temporarily)
no IP, no electrics, no lights, no FWF
I'm told that the workmanship is good, haven't seen it.
I don't know what documentation of the build there may be.
I believe it could be a good bargain for someone who wants an 85% kit for SP.
Anyone who's interested please contact me off-list.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevinbonds(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Avex 1604-0412 from China?? |
Thanks Carlos for following up on this. BTW I forgot to mention that this conversation
was with the Canadian division of Textron.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
Thanks Carlos for following up on this. BTW I forgot to mention that this conversation
was with the Canadian division of Textron.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | More thoughts on Ammeters and Voltmeters |
Hello All,
After I sent the note yesterday, I flew a sortie in the 135 and wouldn't ya know
it but I lost one of my TRs. Halfway through the flight I noticed that the
load on one of the one had dropped to 0. This wasn't too bad because the other
had picked up the load and it was not maxed out. This got me to thinking about
another situation where it might be useful on the Zodiac. If your capacity
on your bus is close to maxed out then this might help you manage the load.
In other words making sure that you don't turn too many gadgets on at once. But
the better solution is to go a head and make sure that you don't have your
circuit overloaded to begin with.
Just some thoughts
Cheers
Matt Archer
601 XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | 601 Cowling ducts... |
Listers, I'm installing both my oil cooler and main radiator inside the
cowling of my 601HD. After toying with doing aluminum plenums (saw a
601 with such an arrangement but didn't care for the looks) I made my
own with fiberglass. Turned out really good. This is the last stretch
for me, after the cowling is done I can fire up the engine for testing.
Now the question I have is that I cut a NACA-style duct on each side
(different sizes, the main rad needs to be bigger) and I'm wondering if
they will be adequate to scavenge enough airflow to cool the rads?
The 601 I saw with the AL plenums had scoops glassed into each side.
The main rad scoop was a glassed-in 4L bottle of windshield was fluid.
Didn't look that bad but the current owner ended up cutting ahead of
the scoop on the main rad to get things cooler, effectively creating a
rudimentary NACA duct ahead of it. So should I take the time to glass
in a scoop on each side as well?
I have pictures of the cowling work on my picture website here:
http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album/view_album.php?
set_albumName=album15
Thanks
Trevor Page
601HD 98.5% complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Cowling ducts... |
Hi Trevor;
I think you are using a 912 engine. If this is so , you do not need any
openings in the side of the cowl to get sufficient coolig. There is more
than enough air entering the front. The key is directing it to the
radiators, particularly the water rad. The oil rad does not need a lot.
Then directing the exhaust air out of the rad down to the low psessure
opening at the bottom rear of the cowl.
Pics available if desired, even though mine are all aluminum.
Mike
CH-601 HDS 1000+hrs
UHS Spinners
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Cowling ducts... |
Trevor,
The easy part is getting the air to the rads.
the hard part is getting a low pressure behind the rads to draw the heated
air out.
I have a sealed duct from the back of the rad down to the extraction area at
the bottom of the firewall.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Glasserow" <jeffglass(at)starband.net> |
Can someone tell me how to subcribe to the 601 newsletter I've seen
mentioned here? I'd like to pick up all back copies as well as get a
current subscription. Any info would be greatly appreciated! I think it's
publisjed out in the mid-west...
Thanks, Jeff Glasserow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Newsletter |
> Can someone tell me how to subcribe to the 601 newsletter I've seen
> mentioned here? I'd like to pick up all back copies as well as get a
> current subscription. Any info would be greatly appreciated! I think
it's
> publisjed out in the mid-west...
> Thanks, Jeff Glasserow
>
>
Here's the publisher sskrog(at)aol.com
Aaron
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| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Newsletter |
You can email Steve & Sharon Krog, editors and publishers of the newsletter at:
sskrog(at)aol.com
Carlos
--- Jeffrey Glasserow wrote:
>
> Can someone tell me how to subcribe to the 601 newsletter I've seen
> mentioned here? I'd like to pick up all back copies as well as get a
> current subscription. Any info would be greatly appreciated! I think it's
> publisjed out in the mid-west...
> Thanks, Jeff Glasserow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Venturi vacuum systems |
3.60 ALT_MED Misspelled medication name
List,
I hate to date myself (let's just say that I have been out of the saddle for over
20 years) but I am designing the panel and have noticed very few 601's with
venturi's. Are electric systems the way to go?
Gary Boothe
WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
Rudder complete, impatiently awaiting
Tail Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cdngoose" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Venturi vacuum systems |
Gary, were even moving past the days of electric and have now embraced
the value of Glass as our present day panel. With the costs of present
day systems it just makes more sense to move in that direction now. Some
systems to consider are http://www.para-aviation.ca
http://www.dynondevelopment.com of course there are many more and you
can find some from the commercial pages on the www.ch601.org website.
But the two above are my personal favorites. Are you dated? Yes but so
are most of us building an airplane, I bought a full panel of steam
gauges for my Zodiac when I started but now they will be used in either
a 701 or an Osprey 2 whichever I build next. Before I get to many
E-Mails on that last statement, I have no intention of traveling any
type of distance in either a 701 or the Osprey 2 but the 601 will be a
cross country cruiser.
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary A.
Boothe
Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi vacuum systems
List,
I hate to date myself (let's just say that I have been out of the saddle
for over 20 years) but I am designing the panel and have noticed very
few 601's with venturi's. Are electric systems the way to go?
Gary Boothe
WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
Rudder complete, impatiently awaiting
Tail Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Phil Raker <phadr1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Venturi vacuum systems |
Gary,
I'd echo what Mark Townsend wrote and also add a comment about the "glass
panel" system from Grand Rapids Technologies. They have a single unit which
can be almost all of your panel except for radios. It's an EFIS which will
also display engine info and navigation info on the same screen. I'm
tentatively planning to use it.
Since I see that you've chosen the HDS model, I assume that speed (a
relative term) is at least somewhat important to you. As you probably already
know, venturis are a drag, in more ways than one. They also collect ice very
quiclky in the kind of conditions where you need attitude info the most. They
can also ice in conditions which would generate carb ice.
I have never liked vacuum systems, so was looking at electric gyros
(expensive). Then the Dynon and Grand Rapids EFIS systems became available at
"reasonable" prices. THAT's the way to go! My 2 cents.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi vacuum systems
List,
I hate to date myself (let's just say that I have been out of the saddle
for over 20 years) but I am designing the panel and have noticed very
few 601's with venturi's. Are electric systems the way to go?
Gary Boothe
WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy(at)mail.usa.com> |
We temporarily attached the left wing yesterday to check the fit. The wing attach
points matched perfectly, the rear strut fit well, but the front strut appears
to require approximately 9 degrees of twist. It appears that the steel plate
on the gear/strut fitting is roughly parallel to the cabin bottom rather
than parallel to the reference line. Besides asking Zenith to replace the front
strut, how have others fixed this?
Thanks in advance,
Tony Pierce
CH 701 (5188)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cleone Markwell <cleone(at)rr1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Venturi vacuum systems |
I use a venturi and it is nice to see a horizon working on the panel. I
don't intend to fly instruments. I did for years. I'm sure there is a
drag to it but I had flown my plane for over a year before I put it on and
the drag hasn't made a noticeable difference in air speed. It is also nice
when young ladies say; "And you even have a horn".
Cleone
At 09:22 AM 12/16/04, you wrote:
>
>Gary,
> I'd echo what Mark Townsend wrote and also add a comment about the
> "glass
>panel" system from Grand Rapids Technologies. They have a single unit which
>can be almost all of your panel except for radios. It's an EFIS which will
>also display engine info and navigation info on the same screen. I'm
>tentatively planning to use it.
> Since I see that you've chosen the HDS model, I assume that speed (a
>relative term) is at least somewhat important to you. As you probably already
>know, venturis are a drag, in more ways than one. They also collect ice very
>quiclky in the kind of conditions where you need attitude info the most. They
>can also ice in conditions which would generate carb ice.
> I have never liked vacuum systems, so was looking at electric gyros
>(expensive). Then the Dynon and Grand Rapids EFIS systems became available at
>"reasonable" prices. THAT's the way to go! My 2 cents.
>
> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi vacuum systems
>
>
>List,
>I hate to date myself (let's just say that I have been out of the saddle
>for over 20 years) but I am designing the panel and have noticed very
>few 601's with venturi's. Are electric systems the way to go?
>
>Gary Boothe
>WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Johnson" <bjohnson(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Venturi vacuum systems |
Leo Gates' HDS has a special "triple venture".... but they are plastic, and
they play "Dixie" (or is it the "charge" preamble...)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cleone Markwell
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Venturi vacuum systems
I use a venturi and it is nice to see a horizon working on the panel. I
don't intend to fly instruments. I did for years. I'm sure there is a
drag to it but I had flown my plane for over a year before I put it on and
the drag hasn't made a noticeable difference in air speed. It is also nice
when young ladies say; "And you even have a horn".
Cleone
At 09:22 AM 12/16/04, you wrote:
>
>Gary,
> I'd echo what Mark Townsend wrote and also add a comment about the
> "glass
>panel" system from Grand Rapids Technologies. They have a single unit
which
>can be almost all of your panel except for radios. It's an EFIS which will
>also display engine info and navigation info on the same screen. I'm
>tentatively planning to use it.
> Since I see that you've chosen the HDS model, I assume that speed (a
>relative term) is at least somewhat important to you. As you probably
already
>know, venturis are a drag, in more ways than one. They also collect ice
very
>quiclky in the kind of conditions where you need attitude info the most.
They
>can also ice in conditions which would generate carb ice.
> I have never liked vacuum systems, so was looking at electric gyros
>(expensive). Then the Dynon and Grand Rapids EFIS systems became available
at
>"reasonable" prices. THAT's the way to go! My 2 cents.
>
> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Subject: Zenith-List: Venturi vacuum systems
>
>
>List,
>I hate to date myself (let's just say that I have been out of the saddle
>for over 20 years) but I am designing the panel and have noticed very
>few 601's with venturi's. Are electric systems the way to go?
>
>Gary Boothe
>WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | szewc(at)direcway.com |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing struts |
Tony,
Several people have reported this problem. I corrected it by heating the strut
in a jig and twisting to get the right fit.
Ken Szewc
N701SZ 72hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony & Peggy Pierce <piercetonypeggy(at)mail.usa.com>
Date: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:09 am
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing struts
>
> We temporarily attached the left wing yesterday to check the fit.
> The wing attach points matched perfectly, the rear strut fit well,
> but the front strut appears to require approximately 9 degrees of
> twist. It appears that the steel plate on the gear/strut fitting
> is roughly parallel to the cabin bottom rather than parallel to
> the reference line. Besides asking Zenith to replace the front
> strut, how have others fixed this?
> Thanks in advance,
> Tony Pierce
> CH 701 (5188)
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> =====================================================================
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)thegateway.net> |
Folks,
The latest issue of the Zenith Newsletter said that the company that now makes
the Matco axles will replace the old 701 axles with the newer version which is
beefed up where the axle and flange join. The exchange is about $32 per axle.
We have till Dec 05 to send them in. I have the old style and have made
a hard landing or two but looking at the axles closely I find no damage or cracks.
Question: how many of you all are going to exchange your axles?
Chuck D.
N701TX
Jabiru 2200
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Great Plains Aircraft |
Gents,
I recieved my axles that I ordered from Great
Plains today, and I am very dissapointed with what I
got. I ordered two 5/8" axles, and recieved two 3/4"
grade 5 bolts with a castle nut and cotter pin. Hell,
the bolt wasn't even drilled for the cotter pin! If I
wanted a regular bolt, I could have gotten a drilled
grade 8 bolt locally for half the price.
I have heard good things about the people a Great
Plains, so this confuses me. For those who have dealt
with them; is this unusual? I am quite irritated, and
am ready to raise hell.
Respectfully,
Brandon
__________________________________
Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland137(at)cs.com |
Anyone know how much Blueworks charges for the Jabiru 2200 cowling for the
701, and are there any other sources for 701 cowling with the Jab 2200? Not
ready yet, just planning ahead. Placing an order now for the landing gear kit to
finish the firewall.
Norm in Nevada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Carter <howado(at)cwia.com> |
Norm in Nevada:
Dedalius has a cowling for the Jabiru engines.
Howard Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gtamvakis(at)earthlink.net> |
I am curentlly building a cowling [ actually modifying a 601 Jabiru cowl ]
for a plane that is almost identical to the 701 .I am doing this for Jabiru
so they can start offering a firewall frwd pkg for the 701 and other similar
planes [Savannah]
George
Savannah Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rowland137(at)cs.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Cowling
>
> Anyone know how much Blueworks charges for the Jabiru 2200 cowling for the
> 701, and are there any other sources for 701 cowling with the Jab 2200?
> Not
> ready yet, just planning ahead. Placing an order now for the landing gear
> kit to
> finish the firewall.
> Norm in Nevada
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com> |
| Subject: | Servo on the Flap Actuator |
I have a question for the XL builders in the group. On the
ZAC site for XL builders, in the Fuselage section of builder's pics, there
is a photo of the actuator assembly and it shows how someone has added a
servo to send info to a meter (not shown) to tell the pilot the angle of his
flaps. I would like some info on locating this type of servo and meter. If
the owner of that plane is lurking, please contact me off list at:
ashamri(at)wmconnect.com . Thanks. Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Crvsecretary(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Servo on the Flap Actuator |
hello Rick:
If I am not mistaken the ZAC demo aircraft has a flap indicator calibrated
in degrees. Can/will the factory identify or source it for you?
Tracy
601XL s/n 5570
tail 85% complete
In a message dated 12/17/2004 8:08:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick"
I have a question for the XL builders in the group. On the
ZAC site for XL builders, in the Fuselage section of builder's pics, there
is a photo of the actuator assembly and it shows how someone has added a
servo to send info to a meter (not shown) to tell the pilot the angle of his
flaps. I would like some info on locating this type of servo and meter. If
the owner of that plane is lurking, please contact me off list at:
ashamri(at)wmconnect.com . Thanks. Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo on the Flap Actuator |
Rick,
I was just now looking at some items at www.rayallencompany.com. They are
listed on the CH601websight.
Gary Boothe
WW Corvair Power - 601HDS
Rudder complete, impatiently awaiting
Tail Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Servo on the Flap Actuator
>
>
> I have a question for the XL builders in the group. On the
> ZAC site for XL builders, in the Fuselage section of builder's pics, there
> is a photo of the actuator assembly and it shows how someone has added a
> servo to send info to a meter (not shown) to tell the pilot the angle of
> his
> flaps. I would like some info on locating this type of servo and meter. If
> the owner of that plane is lurking, please contact me off list at:
> ashamri(at)wmconnect.com . Thanks. Rick
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=uI3KggXn556dh7okZhIJPKHnEuDso3Pq7vGUlUECnmXipN6wo4jnQNOYhFaWuJrZpDhjsI0MmlM4Yv+0+AWq6PxuMScjguU0oEyRxwE8ZWFJ2OxLBC2LiajoDwDqQ/XR8OPoh8DFsGns5NbkdtMhNOIlz4x+9HZA6PAOdSj5W4w;
| From: | Fly Boy <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo on the Flap Actuator |
Rick:
I am considering installing three limit switches and three LED's on the panel.
Full up would be green along with a red LED for 50% and another red for 100%
flaps. It would all be very small and cheap.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
"Beckman, Rick" wrote:
I have a question for the XL builders in the group. On the
ZAC site for XL builders, in the Fuselage section of builder's pics, there
is a photo of the actuator assembly and it shows how someone has added a
servo to send info to a meter (not shown) to tell the pilot the angle of his
flaps. I would like some info on locating this type of servo and meter. If
the owner of that plane is lurking, please contact me off list at:
ashamri(at)wmconnect.com . Thanks. Rick
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Servo on the Flap Actuator |
Rick--
I will be installing a flap indicator such as you saw. It is made up of
a RayAllen POS-12 position sensor (1.2"), an push rod (as used in R/C
planes)
and I'll calibrate one of the RayAllen LED indicators.
Hope this helps
George May
601XL
>From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'MATRONICS LIST'"
>Subject: Zenith-List: Servo on the Flap Actuator
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 05:58:42 -0700
>
>
> I have a question for the XL builders in the group. On the
>ZAC site for XL builders, in the Fuselage section of builder's pics, there
>is a photo of the actuator assembly and it shows how someone has added a
>servo to send info to a meter (not shown) to tell the pilot the angle of
>his
>flaps. I would like some info on locating this type of servo and meter. If
>the owner of that plane is lurking, please contact me off list at:
>ashamri(at)wmconnect.com . Thanks. Rick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net> |
| Subject: | Feul resistant sealer? |
Mornin list,
Installing the tanks now, but wondering about leaking at the threaded joint !?
What can I use to prevent this? wont be to nice to see a leak after riveting the
top skin.
Thanks,
Dirk. 701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)thegateway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Feul resistant sealer? |
Dirk,
I used Seal Lube that was recommended somewhere. I have extra. I can send
you some if you wish. I put an inspection plate under my 701 tank fuel
outlet to be able to tighten the fitting, clamp or change out the fuel line.
See my tank installation at www.geocities.com/cffd66.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message ----- > Mornin list,
> Installing the tanks now, but wondering about leaking at the threaded
joint !?
> What can I use to prevent this? wont be to nice to see a leak after
riveting the top skin.
> Thanks,
> Dirk. 701
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Fuel resistant sealer |
I'm using Permatex High temperature thread sealant.
Its white paste you put on the threads before assembly. It doesn't dry but
remains in its
paste form.
The back of the package states...Seals threaded metal fittings on hydrolic,
pneumatic,
fuel, and cooling systems.
Item # 59214
purchased at Auto Zone autoparts store.
Its worked great in all leak checks thus far.
Brian
701 Long Island
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com> |
A big THANK YOU to Gary, Tracy, Scott and George for info and ideas
on the flap actuator question!!
God
Bless!! and Happy Holidays!!
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Feul resistant sealer? |
Thanks a lot for answers! I'm a bit more at ease now.
Chuck, I had a look at your installation, makes sense, but I am far away in Piketberg
SA, thanks for the offer to send me some sealer !
I'll look around here first, see what I can find, otherwise I'll just use lion
pee, stinks to high heaven, so it should be good ? hee hee hee ......
Dirk 701
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Deiterich
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Feul resistant sealer?
Dirk,
I used Seal Lube that was recommended somewhere. I have extra. I can send
you some if you wish. I put an inspection plate under my 701 tank fuel
outlet to be able to tighten the fitting, clamp or change out the fuel line.
See my tank installation at www.geocities.com/cffd66.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message ----- > Mornin list,
> Installing the tanks now, but wondering about leaking at the threaded
joint !?
> What can I use to prevent this? wont be to nice to see a leak after
riveting the top skin.
> Thanks,
> Dirk. 701
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
He Rick.
There is one more very simple option that can be used for a position indicator
for the flap. You can find a cheap float-style fuel level sender with a guage.
Just remove the potentiometer with the lever arm to the float and mount it
so the lever arm moves with the flap actuator. Then you can set the flaps in
various positions and mark the positions on the fuel indicator (change the face
on it if you can) . I am not sure that the sender from Ray Allen has enough
travel for use with the flaps. Maybe if you mount it lower down on the lever
arm of the flap actuator tube it won't have much travel. Just an idea - a really
simple one at that. have an excellent Christmas.
David
"Beckman, Rick" wrote:
A big THANK YOU to Gary, Tracy, Scott and George for info and ideas
on the flap actuator question!!
God
Bless!! and Happy Holidays!!
Rick
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Norm,
Jabiru Pacific ,http://www.jabirupacific.com/ in California and
http://www.jabiru.net.au/
have access to the 701 FWF kits for the 2200
Mike Sigman
Marysville, WA
601XL Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <wizard-24(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Venturi vacuum systems |
> Is your intention to use the venturi as a backup vacuum source or
> primary?
> Would manifold vacuum be an acceptable secondary source as well?
It would be my primary system. My engine will be a Corvair, so there's no platform
for a vacuum pump. Not sure if I could incorporate manifold vacuum or not....I'm
new to this building stuff, so I'm not sure. Good idea though if it would
work....any thoughts anyone?
Mike F.
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron &Phyliss" <rgdplg(at)radiowire.net> |
| Subject: | Suzuki 1.3L engine in CH-701 |
I may have a problem with the PCM for the Suzuki (GEO) engine. No "Check Engine"
light unless I manually ground the PCM lead. If it is fried, I will be looking
for a replacement. Any PCM from a 1.3L Suzuki 4 cyl. engine from 1998 to
2001 will work. If anyone has one they would like to sell, please email me at:
rgdplg(at)radiowire.net
Thanks,
Ron Dallmeyer
N701PR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland137(at)cs.com |
Thanks to Howard, George, and Mike for solving my delemma with the 701
cowling. I received added info from each of you. I now have choices - that is a
good
thing. Also, see that Chuck Deiterich made his cowling out of aluminum. That
is another alternative. An added thanks for those who might have additional
info on the way.
Norm in Las Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
The Ray Allen sensor moves 1.2". Move it up the the flap tube to where
your max travel is 1.2". Should work good, that's what I am doing. The Ray
Allen sensor is $30. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barth" <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Responses
>
> He Rick.
> There is one more very simple option that can be used for a position
indicator for the flap. You can find a cheap float-style fuel level sender
with a guage. Just remove the potentiometer with the lever arm to the float
and mount it so the lever arm moves with the flap actuator. Then you can
set the flaps in various positions and mark the positions on the fuel
indicator (change the face on it if you can) . I am not sure that the
sender from Ray Allen has enough travel for use with the flaps. Maybe if
you mount it lower down on the lever arm of the flap actuator tube it won't
have much travel. Just an idea - a really simple one at that. have an
excellent Christmas.
> David
>
> "Beckman, Rick" wrote:
>
>
> A big THANK YOU to Gary, Tracy, Scott and George for info and ideas
> on the flap actuator question!!
>
> God
> Bless!! and Happy Holidays!!
>
> Rick
>
>
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
> Working on Wings
> www.ch601.org
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Feul resistant sealer? |
You need to do a leak check before you nail the top down. I put 5 gallons
in mine and let it set over night, then drained it. It stinks up the shop
especially if you don't like the smell of gasoline. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Feul resistant sealer?
>
> Mornin list,
> Installing the tanks now, but wondering about leaking at the threaded
joint !?
> What can I use to prevent this? wont be to nice to see a leak after
riveting the top skin.
> Thanks,
> Dirk. 701
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <wizard-24(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold vacuum system |
> you could improve the performance of a manifold vacuum source for a
> gyro if you inserted a check valve in the vac line coming from the
> manifold, and then ran the line to a quart size tank that acts as a
> vacuum accumulator. The Gyro would be connected to the accumulator.
Very interesting idea -- kind of the same concept as a header tank in a fuel system.
Has this been tried before?
Mike F.
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Rick <n701rr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold vacuum system |
Much like an after market cruise control from JC Whitney for $100 or so. They
too use a plastic jug type accumulator.
> you could improve the performance of a manifold vacuum source for a
> gyro if you inserted a check valve in the vac line coming from the
> manifold, and then ran the line to a quart size tank that acts as a
> vacuum accumulator. The Gyro would be connected to the accumulator.
Very interesting idea -- kind of the same concept as a header tank in a fuel system.
Has this been tried before?
Mike F.
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
Rick
Orlando, FL
http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold vacuum system |
A vacuum tank would only work to smooth out momentary lapses or spikes in
vacuum supply which would be fine for an auto with its changing throttle but
this doesn't happen with aviation use. You can't "store" vacuum like one can
store air as you can only get about 2/3 of a complete vacuum but you can
store several times the atmospheric pressure. Autos did use a vacuum
boosting pump piggy backed on the fuel pump. This works until the diaphragm
fails but this type of system was replaced with electric wipers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <wizard-24(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Manifold vacuum system
>
>
> > you could improve the performance of a manifold vacuum source for a
> > gyro if you inserted a check valve in the vac line coming from the
> > manifold, and then ran the line to a quart size tank that acts as a
> > vacuum accumulator. The Gyro would be connected to the accumulator.
>
> Very interesting idea -- kind of the same concept as a header tank in a
fuel system. Has this been tried before?
>
> Mike F.
>
> Juno Gift Certificates
> Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
> http://www.juno.com/give
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Phil Raker <phadr1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold vacuum system |
Mike, et al,
There is a back-up vacuum system sold by Aircraft Spruce which uses
manifold vacuum. I don't know whether it has an accumulator (other than the
hoses) but I believe it does have a check valve. I don't believe you'd want to
use such a system as a primary vacuum source, unless the steam gauges were not
your primary ones, but only backup to an electric system (gyro or glass panel).
I'm planning to go with either Dynon or Grand Rapids EFIS system, with the
AnywhereMap Attitude indicator as a backup.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
> you could improve the performance of a manifold vacuum source for a
> gyro if you inserted a check valve in the vac line coming from the
> manifold, and then ran the line to a quart size tank that acts as a
> vacuum accumulator. The Gyro would be connected to the accumulator.
Very interesting idea -- kind of the same concept as a header tank in a fuel
system.
Has this been tried before?
Mike F.
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert C. Owens" <bobowens(at)avlaw.com> |
Can anyone recommend a hi-speed cordless drill, 2500 rpms or higher, small
and light weight preferably?
Bob, building CH 701 with Pegastol wings
Robert C. Owens
Board Certified in Aviation Law
www.avlaw.com
Available 24/7 at:
AvLaw
6630 SW 50th Terrace
Miami, Florida 33155
Tel: (305) 669-9263
Fax: (305) 662-7151
Cell: (305) 586-3721
Email: bobowens(at)avlaw.com
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm not going to recomend any brand or model, but here are a few points I learned
on the way:
1) I like to have buble level indicators, both horizontal and vertical. Not all
drills have them,
and some are hard to read.
2) There is a good deal of difference between drills of the same brand with different
prices. The
higher priced usually runs more smoothly - you may be unable to try at the store,
as the batteries
may need to be charged. Spend a few bucks more and get the better one, you are
going to make
hundreds of holes.
3) you may or may not want a high-speed charger. With two batteries, one does not
really need it,
but if you are not looking at the low end ones, they will come with fast chargers
anyway.
4) I find that the (high) speed is no big deal, but you do want reversible and
variable speed.
5) Google for user reports and/or consumer guides: there might be some aspect of
importance to you
that you are unaware of, besides the factors above. This is applicable to just
about any tool /
appliance you plan on acquiring.
Hope this helps
Carlos
--- "Robert C. Owens" wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a hi-speed cordless drill, 2500 rpms or higher, small
> and light weight preferably?
>
> Bob, building CH 701 with Pegastol wings
>
> Robert C. Owens
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Crvsecretary(at)aol.com |
Hello Bob:
I recently bought a Ryobi 18v. 3/8 inch cordless variable speed reversible
to replace my trusty 12v Dewalt. I cannot buy a replacement battery for the
DeWalt so it's time to replace. The last replacement battery for the DeWalt
was $60..more than a replacement drill!
My opinion, for what's it's worth...is weight. As mentioned, you're
drilling THOUSANDS of holes. My biggest gripe with the Ryobi is the weight of
that
bigg-butt 18v battery sitting down there.
Sure - 2800 RPM is important, and if you have two batteries - especially
with a fast charger - you'll be fine. The bubble levels previously mentioned
are a nice-to-have, but you get real good at drilling a nice, straight hole
after you practice on the first 200 holes!
By the way, I'm an air-tool shop...even though the compressor is WAY louder
than the electric drill will ever be, the air drills are very lightweight.
Your mileage may vary
Tracy
601XL tail 85%
In a message dated 12/18/2004 9:47:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bobowens(at)avlaw.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert C. Owens"
Can anyone recommend a hi-speed cordless drill, 2500 rpms or higher, small
and light weight preferably?
Bob, building CH 701 with Pegastol wings
Robert C. Owens
Board Certified in Aviation Law
www.avlaw.com
Available 24/7 at:
AvLaw
6630 SW 50th Terrace
Miami, Florida 33155
Tel: (305) 669-9263
Fax: (305) 662-7151
Cell: (305) 586-3721
Email: bobowens(at)avlaw.com
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
Robert,
I know that this is not exactly what you asked
for, but I thought another perspective might be
useful. I have 5 cordless drills, 4 cheapo harbor
freight models, and one Craftsman. The Craftsman (at
75 bucks) died on me after a year, and the harbor
freight drills are still plugging along (after several
years). If you have the means, I would definitely go
with Makita or DeWalt, but if not, the harbor freight
ones work fine.
What I like is having four drills, each with a
separate #20, #30, #40, and a step drill bit, and not
having to switch bits. I prefer to pilot drill
everything before drilling for A4 or A5, and having
separate drills with different bits is very
convenient.
Here is one that is variable speed:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90120
Here is one that is constant speed:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=6055
You can buy 6 or 7 of them for the price of one
DeWalt:
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&keyword=Dewalt+Drill&cm_ven=hd_goog&cm_cat=Search&cm_pla=25&cm_ite=bid10087701-Dewalt_Drill
Respectfully,
Brandon
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Crvsecretary(at)aol.com wrote:
Tracy.
(snip...)
By the way, I'm an air-tool shop...even though the compressor is WAY louder
than the electric drill will ever be, the air drills are very lightweight.
I also have airtools in my shop,.. The only problem is that everytime you use
the air drill is like having a 5 HP motor in it... electricity to fill the compressor
is expensive... and the air drill uses a lots of air.
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G." <johann(at)gi.is> |
| Subject: | Cht sensors on Rotax 912 |
Hello list members.
I have some questions regarding the CHT sensors on cyl #2 and #3 on Rotax 912 ul
engine.
Is the sensor measuring water temp or metal temp on the cyl?
Is it necessary to use a special wire like the one used for EGT or CHT on a two
stroke which is installed under the spark plugs?
Can I use a AWG 18 wire for this sensor?
The reason I ask about the wire is that the sensor connection is different than
the normal two stroke method.
The connection is a standard 6,3 x 0.8 DIN 46247. i.e. the blue size female connector.
Thank you in advance.
Johann G.
Iceland.
Z 701.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | louiscfi(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Carb and Turn Coordinator for sale |
Friends, I have a brand new Aerocarb ACV-C04 for sale. It has the flange mount.
It is 35 mm. I am asking $350.
I also have a Falcon turn coordinator for sale. Model number TC02E-3-1. It is
14-28v, flat panel, and unlit. It appears brand new in sealed plastic. I am
asking $250.
I received these parts in a bulk purchase and can't use them on my airplane/engine.
Both include free FedEx 2 day air shipping in the USA complete with tracking number,
and full insurance.
If you want to use a credit card, I have paypal...or you can just pay w/ a regular
check.
If you are interested, please contact me off list at Louiscfi(at)aol.com.
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
http://www.N601LV.com
Friends, I have a brand new Aerocarb ACV-C04 for sale. It has the flange mount.
It is 35 mm. I am asking $350.
I also have a Falcon turn coordinator for sale. Model number TC02E-3-1. It is 14-28v,
flat panel, and unlit. It appears brand new in sealed plastic. I am asking
$250.
I received these parts in a bulk purchase and can't use them on my airplane/engine.
Both include free FedEx 2 day air shipping in the USA complete with tracking number,
and full insurance.
If you want to use a credit card, I have paypal...or you can just pay w/ a regular
check.
If you are interested, please contact me off list at Louiscfi(at)aol.com.
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
http://www.N601LV.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Norton <keithnorton(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | RE:Glass cockpit, venturi and induction backups... |
The glass cockpit instruments are nice, especially when they include terrain avoidance.
But I wouldn't rely with them when IFR unless I had redundant electric
supplies. It is bad enough to loose your instruments when IFR but when it
happens at the same time you loose your lights, radios, and electric trim it is
really bad. Having the instruments vacuum powered, even by a venturi, provides
a level of redundancy that all-electric systems don't have (except on twins).
On my personal aircraft, I use a mixture of electric and steam gages with a venturi
for the vacuum instruments. For intentional IFR, I want a vacuum pump instead
of the venturi because of icing.
Just my 2 cents.
Keith
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cht sensors on Rotax 912 |
Hello Johan,
We installed a CHT sensor in one head of our 912. The idea was this: We went
to a Rotax repair course for the 912, they had a desassembled engine, watching
the water pump impeller, is made of plastic (nylon?) .... what will happen
if the impeler (pump propeller) will break or set free from his shaft? no water
to the heads, and will take some precious minutes for the water temp sensor
to "feel" the increase in temperature from allo the water system, meanwhile
the heads will get severe damage, also will give more time to plan an emergency
landing...
With the carburators the 912 has (Bing) there is no need of reading the combustion
temp, they are automatic.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
"Johann G." wrote:
Hello list members.
I have some questions regarding the CHT sensors on cyl #2 and #3 on Rotax 912 ul
engine.
Is the sensor measuring water temp or metal temp on the cyl?
Is it necessary to use a special wire like the one used for EGT or CHT on a two
stroke which is installed under the spark plugs?
Can I use a AWG 18 wire for this sensor?
The reason I ask about the wire is that the sensor connection is different than
the normal two stroke method.
The connection is a standard 6,3 x 0.8 DIN 46247. i.e. the blue size female connector.
Thank you in advance.
Johann G.
Iceland.
Z 701.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cht sensors on Rotax 912 |
Johann,
The sensors are measuring the temp of the head material NOT the water. (they
do not touch the water) Rotax recommends NOT monitoring water temp, as Gary
says, we do not care about water temps... it is the head that we want to
keep cool. Also, if the water runs out, the engine will be hot but the
water temp will be cool (no water!)
These sender units on the 912 are temperature resistors and thus require
external power along with an appropriate meter (VDO, for example), they are
NOT the voltage generating kind like on the 2 stroke that require no power
and a special meter for that purpose. Hence and therefore: any electrical
wire will work (18g is fine) to run to your meter and power source. The 2
stroke kind do use a special length of wire to keep the tiny self generated
voltages accurate to the meter.
Good luck!
Jon
www.CH701.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann G." <johann(at)gi.is>
Subject: Zenith-List: Cht sensors on Rotax 912
>
> Hello list members.
>
> I have some questions regarding the CHT sensors on cyl #2 and #3 on Rotax
> 912 ul engine.
> Is the sensor measuring water temp or metal temp on the cyl?
> Is it necessary to use a special wire like the one used for EGT or CHT on
> a two stroke which is installed under the spark plugs?
> Can I use a AWG 18 wire for this sensor?
> The reason I ask about the wire is that the sensor connection is different
> than the normal two stroke method.
> The connection is a standard 6,3 x 0.8 DIN 46247. i.e. the blue size
> female connector.
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
> Z 701.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
I used to have a 5 gal oil free compressor that served me well for quite a
few years, but it was very loud. Last year it died and I got an 25 Gal
compressor that uses oil. It is very quiet and works like a charm. I think
the air tools are really the way to go. I have a number of drills. My
favorite rechargeable is the Porter Cable 14 volt. The higher voltage ones
are more powerful but are also heavy. The 14 volt has a nice trade off with
weight and power.
The Porter Cable comes with two batteries. One of the things that you have
to watch out for is overcharging NiCad's. I added a bathroom timer (1 hour)
to the circuit that my charger is plugged into and when I need to charge up
one of the batteries I give the timer a twist and let it go for an hour.
That way I don't need to worry about leaving the battery on charge for long
periods of time. Works very well.
Cheers
Matt
601XL working on the Stab
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless
>
>
> Crvsecretary(at)aol.com wrote:
> Tracy.
>
> (snip...)
> By the way, I'm an air-tool shop...even though the compressor is WAY
> louder
> than the electric drill will ever be, the air drills are very lightweight.
>
>
> I also have airtools in my shop,.. The only problem is that everytime you
> use the air drill is like having a 5 HP motor in it... electricity to
> fill the compressor is expensive... and the air drill uses a lots of air.
>
> Saludos
>
> Gary Gower
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | "Fred B." <taildragger601(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | project for sale |
I noticed a posting of a 601 HD recently and feel there are some facts that all
potential buyers might learn form my very recent experience. I learned form
a member of my EAA chapter of a Van's RV 6 for sale. He knew I am interested
in the 601 and have previously had interest in the RV's and told me of a project
in a storage hangar.. The plane had been there for several years, and the
bill had not been paid for 6 years, in spite of repeated notices to the renter.
I decided to pursue possible purchase and I learned a lot in the process:
( 1) Pictures must be viewed carefully. Sometimes things are hidden either inadvertently
(or perhaps purposely.) ( 2) I called Van's. I am not sure
if they are typical, but they stated I needed both the plans number and the builders
name as well as a bill of sale to support the build 3) I called the
EAA main office, always a help, and spoke with Joe Norris. He informed me that
the builder's logs were essental to my purchase,and
that if
the logs were not there, I would not likely be able to get an FAA Experimental
Amateur signoff. He suggested the only way to get registered without logs was
with an Experimental - Exhibition Catagory, a much more restrictive category.
(4) I went to look anyway, not being able to resist a potential partially built
plane at a potential bargain price. I took a friend who had built several
homebuilts and who is also an A&P. He helped me examine the partial build
for 2 hours and we talked. He said to also be careful of plans built planes,
though this wasn't, as the builds are often not as consistent as kits, and to
NEVER buy a plans build without being able to inspect pre-covering unless I knew
the builder's work. We found parts missing in the storage locker ailerons,
horizontal stabilizer parts of the landing gear, and plans but no builder's log.
I passed on the kit, but another friend purchased it...for $300, the price
of scrap...He thinks he may try to part it out, and
at any
rate, can likely get his $300 back in scrap if not.. Me, I learned a lot and pass
it on. If you are looking at any kit, make sure it is all there , has plan
numbers and logs, it is either open for inspection (pre cover, especially if
it is plans built) and remember that a bargain is no bargain if you can't license
or fly it. Tailwinds, Fred
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Norman Butcher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Norman Butcher
Subject: UK based G-DONT, aircraft and instrument panel.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/normskiroo@ukonline.co.uk.12.18.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cht sensors on Rotax 912 |
Johan,
you can tell the 2 types apart by looking at the install method : metal temp one
fits under the plug head, water temp one has a round extrution that screws into
the cyl head.
Both of them has a sort of delayed effect, takes a while to reflect the combustion
temp.
Carbs can go wrong, needle sticking, something in the main jet ea, by the time
you see this in cyl head temp, the damage could be done.
I am instaliing 4 (?!) egt's, with cyl head temp, this way I can tell whats happening
up front, pull on the choke to cool things down, if needed.
Oil temp, pressure is just as important, the more you know about that engine up
front the better.
Dirk 701
Piketberg SA (41deg C today)
----- Original Message -----
From: Johann G.
To: Zenith listinn
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cht sensors on Rotax 912
Hello list members.
I have some questions regarding the CHT sensors on cyl #2 and #3 on Rotax 912
ul engine.
Is the sensor measuring water temp or metal temp on the cyl?
Is it necessary to use a special wire like the one used for EGT or CHT on a two
stroke which is installed under the spark plugs?
Can I use a AWG 18 wire for this sensor?
The reason I ask about the wire is that the sensor connection is different than
the normal two stroke method.
The connection is a standard 6,3 x 0.8 DIN 46247. i.e. the blue size female connector.
Thank you in advance.
Johann G.
Iceland.
Z 701.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cht sensors on Rotax 912 |
Hi Johann,
Jon is right on the money: the CHT probes in the Rotax 912 measure the
material temps.#18 cable is fine.
I'm using the CHT probes as well as a temp pobe for the cooling water
temperature in my CH 6102 HDS / Rotax 912. I can see fluctuations in the
water temperature ranging from 140 F (in level flight) up to 220 F (when
sitting on the ground on a hot summer day waiting to get on the runway). CHT
temps vary much less - only a few degress F.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cht sensors on Rotax 912
>
> Johann,
>
> The sensors are measuring the temp of the head material NOT the water.
(they
> do not touch the water) Rotax recommends NOT monitoring water temp, as
Gary
> says, we do not care about water temps... it is the head that we want to
> keep cool. Also, if the water runs out, the engine will be hot but the
> water temp will be cool (no water!)
>
> These sender units on the 912 are temperature resistors and thus require
> external power along with an appropriate meter (VDO, for example), they
are
> NOT the voltage generating kind like on the 2 stroke that require no power
> and a special meter for that purpose. Hence and therefore: any electrical
> wire will work (18g is fine) to run to your meter and power source. The 2
> stroke kind do use a special length of wire to keep the tiny self
generated
> voltages accurate to the meter.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Jon
> www.CH701.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johann G." <johann(at)gi.is>
> To: "Zenith listinn"
> Subject: Zenith-List: Cht sensors on Rotax 912
>
>
> >
> > Hello list members.
> >
> > I have some questions regarding the CHT sensors on cyl #2 and #3 on
Rotax
> > 912 ul engine.
> > Is the sensor measuring water temp or metal temp on the cyl?
> > Is it necessary to use a special wire like the one used for EGT or CHT
on
> > a two stroke which is installed under the spark plugs?
> > Can I use a AWG 18 wire for this sensor?
> > The reason I ask about the wire is that the sensor connection is
different
> > than the normal two stroke method.
> > The connection is a standard 6,3 x 0.8 DIN 46247. i.e. the blue size
> > female connector.
> >
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> > Johann G.
> > Iceland.
> > Z 701.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Martin Pohrille <mpohrille(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 601 roll-over protection |
Hi,
I've been lurking on the Zenith and Sonex lists for several month
trying to make a decision to build or not and which aircraft.
I had the opportunity yesterday to see Brian's (RURUNY(at)aol.com) 701. He
is well along in his project and his work was beautiful. He generously
spent several hours with me going over the building process. VERY
helpful. (thanks Brian).
I'm real interested in the 601 but had a concern which I wanted to get
some feedback about. A number of years back I was at S & F and one of
the airshow pilots in a Sea Fury was killed when his aircraft nosed
over and was crushed because the cockpit had no roll-over protection.
Has anyone come up with a rollbar for the 601? Do people think it is
necessary?
Thanks
Marty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert C. Owens" <bobowens(at)avlaw.com> |
| Subject: | Thought Cordless by now maybe Air if it's quiet |
Looked for a day and most all of the 2500 rpm speed drills, cordless and
corded, are heavy. I have a 25 gal compressor and it is extremely loud.
Since I work at nite on the patio, the compressor is out and I was going
elec.
Now I see that there are quiet compressor options, usually lubricated with
oil. I need 25 cu ft and about 4-5 cfm, right? I see that ApolloAir by
<http://www.hvlp.com/> www.hvlp.com has an oilless but allegedly quiet pump
(the 75 model). What is brand/model of oil pump would you builders
recommend? I take it you use an in line oil/water filter.
Bob - finishing the tail of a CH701 with Pegastol wings.
Robert C. Owens
Board Certified in Aviation Law
www.avlaw.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G." <johann(at)gi.is> |
| Subject: | Re: Cht sensors on Rotax 912 |
Jon,Gary,Dirk and Thilo.
Thank you all for the advice on the CHT sensor question.
I am using the Stratomaster E2 as you can view at my Zenith site:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=johann&ID=18101&ID=18101&private=1&action=display
It does display the EGT and the CHT as a bar across the meter on the left,
but the exhaust system I bought from Zenith does not have the pre welded
socket for the EGT sensor, and I do not want to drill the hole for a hose
clamp sensors. So my idea was to not install the EGT sensors, only the CHT.
The Stratomaster display page can be modified for that so that it will not
have a blank space where the EGT is viewed.
I know it is not as vital to know the Exhaust temp on a four stroke as on
the two stroke, because the main idea behind the EGT monitoring is to know
what the oil and fuel mixture is doing in the combustion chamber. That
should not be a problem in the four stroke.
This is just my understanding.
Once again, thank you all for the kind help,
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Z 701.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cht sensors on Rotax 912
>
> Johann,
>
> The sensors are measuring the temp of the head material NOT the water.
(they
> do not touch the water) Rotax recommends NOT monitoring water temp, as
Gary
> says, we do not care about water temps... it is the head that we want to
> keep cool. Also, if the water runs out, the engine will be hot but the
> water temp will be cool (no water!)
>
> These sender units on the 912 are temperature resistors and thus require
> external power along with an appropriate meter (VDO, for example), they
are
> NOT the voltage generating kind like on the 2 stroke that require no power
> and a special meter for that purpose. Hence and therefore: any electrical
> wire will work (18g is fine) to run to your meter and power source. The 2
> stroke kind do use a special length of wire to keep the tiny self
generated
> voltages accurate to the meter.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Jon
> www.CH701.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johann G." <johann(at)gi.is>
> To: "Zenith listinn"
> Subject: Zenith-List: Cht sensors on Rotax 912
>
>
> >
> > Hello list members.
> >
> > I have some questions regarding the CHT sensors on cyl #2 and #3 on
Rotax
> > 912 ul engine.
> > Is the sensor measuring water temp or metal temp on the cyl?
> > Is it necessary to use a special wire like the one used for EGT or CHT
on
> > a two stroke which is installed under the spark plugs?
> > Can I use a AWG 18 wire for this sensor?
> > The reason I ask about the wire is that the sensor connection is
different
> > than the normal two stroke method.
> > The connection is a standard 6,3 x 0.8 DIN 46247. i.e. the blue size
> > female connector.
> >
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> > Johann G.
> > Iceland.
> > Z 701.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Feul resistant sealer? |
As an alternate leak test, I might suggest a surgical glove fastened tight
around the fill hole and a spare piece of 12" long fuel line on the tank
outlet. Blow into the fuel line until the glove expands. Place a small C
clamp on the hose to seal off that end. If the glove stays up, you're
golden. No muss, no fuss. If it goes down, blow it up again, and spray
some soapy water on the glove seal, the hose and look for leaks. Some muss,
and a little fuss. I like this better than using gas. Robert Schoenberger
701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Feul resistant sealer?
>
> You need to do a leak check before you nail the top down. I put 5 gallons
> in mine and let it set over night, then drained it. It stinks up the
> shop
> especially if you don't like the smell of gasoline. Larry N1345L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net>
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: Feul resistant sealer?
>
>
>
>>
>> Mornin list,
>> Installing the tanks now, but wondering about leaking at the threaded
> joint !?
>> What can I use to prevent this? wont be to nice to see a leak after
> riveting the top skin.
>> Thanks,
>> Dirk. 701
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 roll-over protection |
Has anyone come up with a rollbar for the 601? Do people think it is
necessary?
+++ Personal decision; for me - no it is not necessary. Make your own decision.
Stan Challgren has one built in, maybe he'll send you a few jpegs.
+++ The archives are FULL of discussion on this. There was a guy a few years back
who every three months would harangue and harangue the list about the lack
of rollover protection. Regularly bad-mouth ZAC and Chris because they/he would
not listen and include it in the design. Turned out that he was not building
a 601 - just liked to spout off.
+++ Check the archives.
tailwinds jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Miller" <drmiller(at)cvillepsychology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 roll-over protection |
Martin,
The roll bar issue was discussed about a year ago on this list, and the
problem seemed to be designing a roll-bar that would be substantial enough
to provide protection without excessively compromising CG, useful load,
visibility or cockpit width. Zenith maintains that the rudder assembly was
designed to take the load and protect the pilot in case of roll-over, but I
don't know if this has ever been demonstrated (or refuted) in an accident.
The issue seems important enough, though, to continue discussing.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 roll-over protection |
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 roll-over protection
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been lurking on the Zenith and Sonex lists for several month
> trying to make a decision to build or not and which aircraft.
> Has anyone come up with a rollbar for the 601? Do people think it is
> necessary?
>
> Thanks
> Marty
>
Marty,
This item was discussed rather intensely a couple of years ago, yet none
of the builders or persons advocating roll bar protection have shown any
serious progress.
That is, "roll bar ideas" that, beyond calculation, have been tested to
prove satisfactory protection.
I personally think to consider the number of 601s that may have turned over,
if any, should
be very small and the risk associated also immeasurably small. Haven't seen
any report/picture
of a 601 that's gone bottom up with a pilot inside, tho there was an empty
one tied down in high winds.
If you fly safe, you should be able put this idea way out there on the "to
do list".
Build what you think suits your need. Both planes are nice product when
built right.
I just like the space in the 601, visibility, load capacity and especially
the
Zenith support and builders group best.
Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daberti" <daberti(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Cht sensors on Rotax 912 |
The Rotax is designed so that if you did loose all coolant in the system it
will just keep chugging along. You will not lock up a Rotax four stroke due
to no water in the engine! You may damage the heads, excess heat will warp
them, but the heads are the only thing that's water cooled. In normal summer
weather pulling power to 4000 rpm will drop my oil temps to 160 (water
less )and that's about where I set power to enter the pattern and on
downwind. So at that setting I'm not generating a lot of heat and I could
fly all day (gasoline aside :) ) Measure the cylinder that gets hottest.
On the 601 that is usually the rear one.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
Hello Johan,
We installed a CHT sensor in one head of our 912. The idea was this: We
went to a Rotax repair course for the 912, they had a desassembled engine,
watching the water pump impeller, is made of plastic (nylon?) .... what
will happen if the impeler (pump propeller) will break or set free from his
shaft? no water to the heads, and will take some precious minutes for the
water temp sensor to "feel" the increase in temperature from allo the water
system, meanwhile the heads will get severe damage, also will give more
time to plan an emergency landing...
With the carburators the 912 has (Bing) there is no need of reading the
combustion temp, they are automatic.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
"Johann G." wrote:
Hello list members.
I have some questions regarding the CHT sensors on cyl #2 and #3 on Rotax
912 ul engine.
Is the sensor measuring water temp or metal temp on the cyl?
Is it necessary to use a special wire like the one used for EGT or CHT on a
two stroke which is installed under the spark plugs?
Can I use a AWG 18 wire for this sensor?
The reason I ask about the wire is that the sensor connection is different
than the normal two stroke method.
The connection is a standard 6,3 x 0.8 DIN 46247. i.e. the blue size female
connector.
Thank you in advance.
Johann G.
Iceland.
Z 701.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Osborne <todd(at)toddtown.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thought Cordless by now maybe Air if it's quiet |
I can't speak for all compressors, but I bought one of the "quiet" ones
too. Yeah, it's quiet, compared to shotgun, but still more than noisy
enough to wake the neighbors if I use it outside.
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd(at)toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd(at)toddtown.com
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Mattson" <dougmattson(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | FW: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. |
601XL builders may want to check this out.I got this Friday.
-----Original Message-----
From: Zenith Aircraft Company [mailto:info(at)zenithair.com]
Subject: Re: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co.
> I have a Cam100 engine in a 601XL.
> It seems the front fork is not rigid enough. Do you have any
> suggestions to stiffen it up?
>
> Model: ZODIAC CH 601, 6-4466
Please refer to the following attachment
www.zenithair.com\zodiac\xl\data\601xl-nose-wheel-fork-letter.pdf
Nick Heintz
Zenith Aircraft Company
support(at)zenithair.com
http://www.zenithair.com
Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the
advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith
Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or
omissions. Any advice or information that Zenith Aircraft Company
gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it
will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you.
Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Zodiac crash at PAE |
Does anyone know who's Zodiac crashed at Paine field (PAE) in Everett or what
happened?
The local papers are, as usual, very vague.
Mike Sigman
601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net> |
Last week I meant to forward the daily digest to my building buddy and
obviously hit reply instead of forward. It resulted in me sending the
entire daily digest back to the list. I am very sorry to have done that and
thank the gentlemen who pointed it out to me.
Sometimes I can be so sure about what I am about to do, and surely do it
wrong. I will be more careful in the future.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
N701TR (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
Hello all. Want to get some advice.
I have been using alumaprep, alodine and then zinc oxide primer for all the ribs,
spars and internal parts. I finished the rudder and only primed the internal
surfaces of the skins where it was contacting the ribs. I buffed the skins
with scotch brite before priming. My original plan was to etch and alodine the
skins before assembly but decided against it. I was concerned that I might
bend the skins during the process. So I just prepared the skins inside and assembled.
I am a little concerned about using alumaprep for etching the final
assembled part. With all the rivets it may be tough to rinse it thoroughly.
I figuring with the rudder I can always prepare with scotch brite. But want to
get some advice before I skin the stab.
My question is, what is the best way to prepare the external skins. Before assembly,
after, alumaprep, scotch bite, does two part epoxy primer requite etching
???
Cheers.
Matt
601 XL
rudder done, working on the stab
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ihab Awad <ihab.awad(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Etching skins |
Hi Matt,
> I have been using alumaprep, alodine and then zinc oxide primer ... does
> two part epoxy primer requite etching ???
For my information, do I read you correctly -- you are using 2-part
epoxy zinc *oxide* (i.e., not zinc *chromate*) primer? If so, what
brand is it and where do you get it?
The reason I ask is that I have found 2-part epoxy zinc *chromate*
(e.g., Epibond from Aircraft Spruce) and non-epoxy zinc *oxide* (e.g.
Tempo spray cans), but not epoxy zinc oxide.
Thanks for the help! Regards & peace,
Ihab
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Etching skins |
It all depends on what your what you are trying to do, and the conditions
your aircraft will be subjected to.
Throw the Scot Brite away. It's only good for making a mess. It leaves a
lot of particles that are hard to totally clean up before painting. They
get in all the little nooks and crannies and magically appear when you shoot
that first coat. A good acid wash will do the trick to etch the metal,
rinse and dry well. I treat with zinc chromate before I do final riveting.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Etching skins
>
> Hello all. Want to get some advice.
>
> I have been using alumaprep, alodine and then zinc oxide primer for all
the ribs, spars and internal parts. I finished the rudder and only primed
the internal surfaces of the skins where it was contacting the ribs. I
buffed the skins with scotch brite before priming. My original plan was to
etch and alodine the skins before assembly but decided against it. I was
concerned that I might bend the skins during the process. So I just
prepared the skins inside and assembled. I am a little concerned about
using alumaprep for etching the final assembled part. With all the rivets
it may be tough to rinse it thoroughly. I figuring with the rudder I can
always prepare with scotch brite. But want to get some advice before I skin
the stab.
>
> My question is, what is the best way to prepare the external skins.
Before assembly, after, alumaprep, scotch bite, does two part epoxy primer
requite etching ???
>
> Cheers.
>
> Matt
> 601 XL
> rudder done, working on the stab
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <wizard-24(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Recall-Al Young |
> I believe that Zenith excels in it's communication to its kit builders
I almost spit root beer from my nose when I read this sentence Mark. Now, what
exactly has ZAC done to communicate with any of its builders on this or any other
recall issue? Did THEY post the link to the Matronics list? How about sending
out via mail and/or email to the registered builders? After all, they have
that data. I know what you're saying in that ZAC may not be as bad as some....but
can't say that I agree with the statement you wrote above. I agree with Al
-- the part should be sent out free of charge (to those that bought the kit
-- not scratch builders) since it's a defect, regardless of what Cessna does.
Mike F.
Now I gotta build something else AGAIN!
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Russell <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. |
601XL builders may want to check this out.I got this Friday.
Since I can't seem to get the pdf. to load would someone tell me what Zac is saying
about the nose gear. Thanks Jack in Clovis CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Etching skins |
The zinc oxide primer is from Airparts here in Wichita.
http://www.airpartsco.com/ . It is not a two part epoxy but a spray can.
Seems to work well. I have heard that the zinc oxide is a little safer than
the zinc chromate. I was planning on using a two part epoxy on the exterior
prior to final coat. The concern is what is the best way to prep the clad
skin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ihab Awad" <ihab.awad(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Etching skins
>
> Hi Matt,
>
>> I have been using alumaprep, alodine and then zinc oxide primer ... does
>> two part epoxy primer requite etching ???
>
> For my information, do I read you correctly -- you are using 2-part
> epoxy zinc *oxide* (i.e., not zinc *chromate*) primer? If so, what
> brand is it and where do you get it?
>
> The reason I ask is that I have found 2-part epoxy zinc *chromate*
> (e.g., Epibond from Aircraft Spruce) and non-epoxy zinc *oxide* (e.g.
> Tempo spray cans), but not epoxy zinc oxide.
>
> Thanks for the help! Regards & peace,
>
> Ihab
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <wizard-24(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's update pages |
> designer only ever made changes/suggestions in the newsletter
And the newsletter (which I subscribe to) is indeed a good tool. I do find some
of it pretty much useless, such as the parts where Chris Heintz pontificates
about anything else other than flying. But, hopefully this nose fork item will
appear in the next issue of the newsletter.
> I built the Kit before assembling my plane from the original set of
> 601XL plans! I would almost bet I have built more changed parts then > anyone
out there!
Oh, I don't know about that! We'd be neck & neck in that race. Did you have to
build the entire rear fuselage again? Man, that was fun. (not) Not sure I can
count the number of do-overs due to changes in plans. But I agree things could
be a lot worse, although that certainly shouldn't be an excuse for avoiding
improvement. Oh well, one day when I get this thing in the air maybe I'll lighten
up.
Or maybe not. :)
Mike F.
Juno Gift Certificates
Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
http://www.juno.com/give
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 roll-over protection |
I remember doing some research in Roll over protection in airplanes, when this
was discussed in the list last year.
Based in statistics, the inertia and weight of a 601 is so low, that the rudder
and structure will be enough to protect the pilot inside the wide cabin, if
the speed of the (kind of controled) crash is faster, the plane nose (firewall)
and the landing gear will absorb the impact before the plane will roll over,
because as mentioned before the inertia and weight is not very much in the
Zenith planes (701 and 601).
This is only my personal conclusion, based also in watching personaly a C-172 roll
over in a landing...
The process was so slow that if it was filmed, could be thought that it was in
slow montion. the harm to the plane was minimal and the pilot and passenger walked
out unharmed, but umbarased in front of the happy crowd, was in a local fly
in in a land in the mark contest.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Just my opinion
Saludos
Gary Gower
Larry McFarland wrote:
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 roll-over protection
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been lurking on the Zenith and Sonex lists for several month
> trying to make a decision to build or not and which aircraft.
> Has anyone come up with a rollbar for the 601? Do people think it is
> necessary?
>
> Thanks
> Marty
>
Marty,
This item was discussed rather intensely a couple of years ago, yet none
of the builders or persons advocating roll bar protection have shown any
serious progress.
That is, "roll bar ideas" that, beyond calculation, have been tested to
prove satisfactory protection.
I personally think to consider the number of 601s that may have turned over,
if any, should
be very small and the risk associated also immeasurably small. Haven't seen
any report/picture
of a 601 that's gone bottom up with a pilot inside, tho there was an empty
one tied down in high winds.
If you fly safe, you should be able put this idea way out there on the "to
do list".
Build what you think suits your need. Both planes are nice product when
built right.
I just like the space in the 601, visibility, load capacity and especially
the
Zenith support and builders group best.
Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rollover protection |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> the harm to the plane was minimal and the pilot and passenger walked
> out unharmed,
This is easier to do in a high wing aircraft. My concern isn't with
surviving the rollover so much as wondering how I'll get out afterwards.
Espcecially if it happens in an isolated area. I wondered about a
rear-sliding canopy mod, but couldn't come up with anything workable -- and
after a rollover how much could that be counted on NOT to jam shut
anyways... maybe I'll design a big 'red-handled' explosive-bolt jettisonable
canopy that I can 'blow' at the first sign of trouble... ;-) ?
Life is dangerous! birth causes death... no perfect solutions..,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thought Cordless by now maybe Air if it's quiet |
Thinking out of the box a bit, the loud type compressor doesn't have to be
in the work area. I build in the basement and have my compressor in the
first floor garage with the hose running through the band joist to the
basement. There's a switch in the basement to turn it on. Noise level is
quite acceptable. Robert Schoenberger 701 45%
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Osborne" <todd(at)toddtown.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thought Cordless by now maybe Air if it's quiet
>
> I can't speak for all compressors, but I bought one of the "quiet" ones
> too. Yeah, it's quiet, compared to shotgun, but still more than noisy
> enough to wake the neighbors if I use it outside.
>
> Todd Osborne
> Internet E-Mail: todd(at)toddtown.com
> Web Site: www.toddtown.com
> MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd(at)toddtown.com
> AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn(at)aol.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VideoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Thought Cordless by now maybe Air if it's quiet |
I've used cordless drills alot. In fact I have several cordless drills of
varying sizes. The smallest one works the best...it's the lightest and frankly
it doesn't take a lot of power to drill through sheet aluminum. But the
batteries never last as long as you'd like. Seems like I'm ready for a new
battery before the charger is done with the old one.
But I bought a used pneumatic drill at a garage sale. And I have used it
ever since. I know, you have to drag an air hose around, but the speed and the
compactness make up for it. I vote for pneumatic. And I've used both.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)earthlink.net> |
Zodiac Flyers
Last night I installed VG's on my canopy. Today I went for a short flight
to verify the effects. I'm pretty sure I picked up at least 5 MPH, maybe 7
MPH. The wind was blowing hard and that makes it turbulent around here, so
it will be difficult to get a better number until things calm down some. I
just made them out of aluminum the same way Kelly Meiste made his and
spaced them 4 inches apart. They are mounted directly over my head so they
don't block my view except to the side. Maybe someone (Kelly, hint) can
make a set and install them on their plane to confirm my results. Sure is a
cheap way to pick up a few MPH.
Didn't someone on the list have some clear plastic VG's. I may have to buy
a set.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
40 hours complete! But does the experimentation ever end?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Thought Cordless by now maybe Air if it's quiet |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I would agree, the only proviso being that you have an air (I can't
spell pnuematic..:)..) you turn the air down a little so that you get a
slow start that stops the #40 pilot drill bit wandering.
Yes the speed (expecially on the smaller drill bits) makes the air drill
a winner.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thought Cordless by now maybe Air if it's
quiet
I've used cordless drills alot. In fact I have several cordless drills
of
varying sizes. The smallest one works the best...it's the lightest and
frankly
it doesn't take a lot of power to drill through sheet aluminum. But
the
batteries never last as long as you'd like. Seems like I'm ready for a
new
battery before the charger is done with the old one.
But I bought a used pneumatic drill at a garage sale. And I have used
it
ever since. I know, you have to drag an air hose around, but the speed
and the
compactness make up for it. I vote for pneumatic. And I've used both.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 601 XL Fuel System |
Hello fellow Builders, I want to thank the guys who offered advise on how to
replace my fuel valves. I took the advise and returned the English valve and
purchased an OFF, Left & Right valve. Cheaper, smaller and less complex. I
mounted it to the floor in front of the gasolator and plumbed the lines with 1/4
inch alum line. It went together great. I became inventive on running the
remote control to the console. Spruce had nothing so I milled a 1/4 inch
universal joint from my Craftsman ratchet set (never used it anyway) to fit the
top
of the valve control stem. Then I took one of the ZAC steel throttle rod
(that I did not use but paid too much for) and welded a socket to it. I madea
control face plate mounted to the console face and welded a handle to the end.
I
also drilled a 1/16 hole through the socket and end of universal joint end so I
could secure the rod and remove the console when necessary. Works so well and
I am so proud I just had to tell someone. I made a small shield from scrap L
angle to protect from heal strikes. What is impressive is that I weighted the
ZAC system with bulky brass connectors, valves, rubber hose and clamps
compared to the new system and the undated version is almost half as much. Why
would ZAC sell us an obsolete, unreliable and heavier system ? Which is not as
safe or user friendly? Anyone who is still building wings and fuselage I would
strongly recommend you go with all metal fuel lines and single control valve.
Ever try to get a rubber hose off a barbed brass fitting while standing on your
head without destroying the hose? Anyone who wants to see what I did write
me. Update: I finished the last painting Sunday p.m. and will haul to hanger
mid week. Almost finished and want to fly. Thanks again for the advise. Bill
of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Fuel System |
Bill you are just teasing us with that description! Send me some photos and I'll
put them on my website. I'm sure David Barth and Mark Townsend would be happy
to put them on ch601.org as well.
Scott Laughlin
N5SL(reserved)
www.cooknwithgas.com
JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com wrote:
Hello fellow Builders, I want to thank the guys who offered advise on how to
replace my fuel valves. I took the advise and returned the English valve and
purchased an OFF, Left & Right valve. Cheaper, smaller and less complex. I
mounted it to the floor in front of the gasolator and plumbed the lines with 1/4
inch alum line. It went together great. I became inventive on running the
remote control to the console. Spruce had nothing so I milled a 1/4 inch
universal joint from my Craftsman ratchet set (never used it anyway) to fit the
top
of the valve control stem. Then I took one of the ZAC steel throttle rod
(that I did not use but paid too much for) and welded a socket to it. I madea
control face plate mounted to the console face and welded a handle to the end.
I
also drilled a 1/16 hole through the socket and end of universal joint end so I
could secure the rod and remove the console when necessary. Works so well and
I am so proud I just had to tell someone. I made a small shield from scrap L
angle to protect from heal strikes. What is impressive is that I weighted the
ZAC system with bulky brass connectors, valves, rubber hose and clamps
compared to the new system and the undated version is almost half as much. Why
would ZAC sell us an obsolete, unreliable and heavier system ? Which is not as
safe or user friendly? Anyone who is still building wings and fuselage I would
strongly recommend you go with all metal fuel lines and single control valve.
Ever try to get a rubber hose off a barbed brass fitting while standing on your
head without destroying the hose? Anyone who wants to see what I did write
me. Update: I finished the last painting Sunday p.m. and will haul to hanger
mid week. Almost finished and want to fly. Thanks again for the advise. Bill
of Georgia
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Holes Fun or Profit |
Thread Friends, Having just completed my XL I can say a couple things are
sure. After drilling the couple million holes you have to do to build a XL you
either can or cannot drill straight. If your eyes and judgment are good enough
to flare a plane on landing you can drill a hole straight without level
bubbles. The thing about drills is that an air drill of even poor quality will
drill
a cleaner hole than any electric drill. Less moving parts to cause wobble. Not
to mention the speed and ease of use. Sure the compressor may make a racket
and the hose is a burden, but you need air to blow out the product from the
seams anyway and you will also need an angle drill adapter many times. Only the
air drill will reach sufficient speed to cleanly cut with the adapter down
gear. Course I used the electric drill for some things, but with the volume only
the air beast will get you done quickly. What I would recommend to any
builder is the Drill Doctor bit sharpener. I wore out one and am working on my
second ( first one replaced free of charge from the factory by the way). I would
only use a bit about a dozen holes before rechucking a freshly sharpened bit.
Made for quick, clean holes. Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <PAULROD36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Brake Master Cylinders |
I'm just about at the stage to order a set of master cylinders, and though I'd
ask: What are people using, and happy with? I was thinking of Matco's, but looked
at the Italian master cylinders from ACS, which look pretty compact. Price
differential isn't all that much. I had a good look at the Italian wheel system
on Pat Lorie's Czech 601, and was pretty impressed with them. Anybody
want to comment?
Paul Rodriguez
601XL-Corvair
slaaaaaaving on the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
>I'm pretty sure I picked up at least 5 MPH, maybe 7
>MPH.
Randy,
I don't get how VGs on the canopy, or anywhere else for that matter,
improve the top end speed. Is it because of flow separation on the
trailing end of the canopy without them?
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ Ottawa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Dumb Question - Inner Tubes, Wheels and Tires. |
Fellow Zenith Builders:
Can someone educate me on tires, tubes and wheels. I purchased the Grove 5.00
X 5 wheels & brakes and have a Matco 5.00 X 5 nose wheel on order. Why are inner
tubes so expensive? Aircraft Spruce shows tubes for 5.00 X 5 tires at $36.00
each for McCreary and $47.30 for Goodyear!
My first question is - How do you specify the tire - is the 5.00 X 5 tire correct
for all three wheels?
Secondly, are there any tubes out there for a reasonable price (under $20 each)?
Thanks in advance for the help,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on canopy |
> Last night I installed VG's on my canopy. Today I went for a short flight
> to verify the effects. I'm pretty sure I picked up at least 5 MPH, maybe 7
> MPH. The wind was blowing hard and that makes it turbulent around here, so
> it will be difficult to get a better number until things calm down some. I
> just made them out of aluminum the same way Kelly Meiste made his and
> spaced them 4 inches apart. They are mounted directly over my head so
> they
> don't block my view except to the side. Maybe someone (Kelly, hint) can
> make a set and install them on their plane to confirm my results. Sure is
> a
> cheap way to pick up a few MPH.
>
> Didn't someone on the list have some clear plastic VG's. I may have to buy
> a set.
>
> Randy Stout
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Randy,
Thanks for the post on your VG experiment, I'm not surprised at your
estimated results. The low turtle deck (high canopy) is really a speed
killer. I'm sure if the 601 had a similar turtle deck design as the Sonex we
would see the 5 MPH increase you claim to have found.
I'll be sure to give it a try as it's a cheap & easy way to gain a few MPH.
I once attached clear lexan VG's to the windscreen on my Challenger. Easy to
do just bend a piece of 1/16" thick lexan 90 deg & attach with some thin
double back tape and your in business.
Also if Jeff Small is monitoring the list, please chime in with your
findings (I believe he's also don't some research in this area with his
601).
Kelly Meiste
601 HD (with wing & stab VG's)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Fuel System |
Scott, now I know that no one would believe this, but I don't know how to put
pictures on e-mail. I have a digital camera with a little color screen in the
back that has a little card that plugs into an adapter on my computer, but I
have never used any of them. My wife, brilliant selector of husband and a
pretty good cook, can take pictures with it and she has some on our computer, but
she doesn't know the process either. Just think, I can assemble a plane from a
box of raw aluminum, but I can't do what probably any 7 year old American kid
can do. I will try to learn how it's done when my son comes home from
university for Christmas and send some photos. Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Brown" <kentbrown(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Feul resistant sealer? |
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Schoenberger
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 5:35 AM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Feul resistant sealer?
>
>
>
> As an alternate leak test, I might suggest a surgical glove fastened tight
> around the fill hole and a spare piece of 12" long fuel line on the tank
> outlet. Blow into the fuel line until the glove expands. Place a small C
> clamp on the hose to seal off that end. If the glove stays up, you're
> golden. No muss, no fuss. If it goes down, blow it up again, and spray
> some soapy water on the glove seal, the hose and look for leaks. Some
> muss,
> and a little fuss. I like this better than using gas. Robert
> Schoenberger
> 701
>
Just be aware that if you do this on a warm afternoon, and then later check
it on a cool morning, the glove will be deflated. You may be chasing a
nonexistent leak!
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Feul resistant sealer? |
Kent . . . even more interesting would be to start on a cool morning and
observe the results on a warm afternoon! Seriously, you're right. My
basement is a constant temp within a couple of degrees. Robert do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Feul resistant sealer?
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
>> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Schoenberger
>> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 5:35 AM
>> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Feul resistant sealer?
>>
>>
>>
>> As an alternate leak test, I might suggest a surgical glove fastened
>> tight
>> around the fill hole and a spare piece of 12" long fuel line on the tank
>> outlet. Blow into the fuel line until the glove expands. Place a small
>> C
>> clamp on the hose to seal off that end. If the glove stays up, you're
>> golden. No muss, no fuss. If it goes down, blow it up again, and spray
>> some soapy water on the glove seal, the hose and look for leaks. Some
>> muss,
>> and a little fuss. I like this better than using gas. Robert
>> Schoenberger
>> 701
>>
>
> Just be aware that if you do this on a warm afternoon, and then later
> check
> it on a cool morning, the glove will be deflated. You may be chasing a
> nonexistent leak!
>
> Kent
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dumb Question - Inner Tubes, Wheels and Tires. |
Go to Tractor Supply, about $8.00. Larry N1345L
Oh, to answer your question about why they are so expensive, it's because it
has the word "AirCraft" in front of it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Dumb Question - Inner Tubes, Wheels and Tires.
>
> Fellow Zenith Builders:
>
> Can someone educate me on tires, tubes and wheels. I purchased the Grove
5.00 X 5 wheels & brakes and have a Matco 5.00 X 5 nose wheel on order. Why
are inner tubes so expensive? Aircraft Spruce shows tubes for 5.00 X 5
tires at $36.00 each for McCreary and $47.30 for Goodyear!
>
> My first question is - How do you specify the tire - is the 5.00 X 5 tire
correct for all three wheels?
>
> Secondly, are there any tubes out there for a reasonable price (under $20
each)?
>
> Thanks in advance for the help,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron dewees <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | FAA inspection N601TD |
Hi builders and Zenair drivers,
I got the good news today and the bad news today. I requested that my
local MIDO office inspect my Zenair 601 HDS TD and got the tentative
inspection date of Jan 10. Apparently so far my paperwork is ok and the
inspector quite friendly. He casually mentioned that his office usually
doesn't do inspections but he is training a group of new inspectors with
his office and will bring a gang with him. Wonder what I am in for?
Anybody get caught on something not clear in the checklist? I am
generally encouraged and have been impressed with the friendly but
professional folks I have talked to at the MIDO.
Wish me luck-- I know what my late Christmas peasant will be.
Ron DeWees
N601TD Jab 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)earthlink.net> |
Yes. Apparantly, some have done tuft test on the canopy and there is an
area that the air flow breaks away from the canopy.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> [Original Message]
> From: Frank Jones <fjones(at)sympatico.ca>
> To:
> Date: 12/20/04 2:56:51 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: VG's on canopy
>
>
> >I'm pretty sure I picked up at least 5 MPH, maybe 7
> >MPH.
>
> Randy,
>
> I don't get how VGs on the canopy, or anywhere else for that matter,
> improve the top end speed. Is it because of flow separation on the
> trailing end of the canopy without them?
>
> Frank Jones
> C-GYXQ Ottawa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 601 XL Fuel System Photos |
Scott, Frank, & Carlos, and Thread, wellI I took some pics of the beast and
have instructions from Frank so if these dammed things go to cycber space hell
at least I tied. The fuel valve is made by Allen Aircraft and is a 6S122,
Spruce # 05-29520. Here goes, regards, Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Etching skins |
Hi Matt,
I only used Scotch brite (the red one), cleaned with an organic solvent,
apllied zinc chromate and a primer, then a again a little bit Scotch brite,
followed by paint. That was 3 years ago - no prblem so far.
Happy painting
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Etching skins
>
> Hello all. Want to get some advice.
>
> I have been using alumaprep, alodine and then zinc oxide primer for all
the ribs, spars and internal parts. I finished the rudder and only primed
the internal surfaces of the skins where it was contacting the ribs. I
buffed the skins with scotch brite before priming. My original plan was to
etch and alodine the skins before assembly but decided against it. I was
concerned that I might bend the skins during the process. So I just
prepared the skins inside and assembled. I am a little concerned about
using alumaprep for etching the final assembled part. With all the rivets
it may be tough to rinse it thoroughly. I figuring with the rudder I can
always prepare with scotch brite. But want to get some advice before I skin
the stab.
>
> My question is, what is the best way to prepare the external skins.
Before assembly, after, alumaprep, scotch bite, does two part epoxy primer
requite etching ???
>
> Cheers.
>
> Matt
> 601 XL
> rudder done, working on the stab
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection N601TD |
The more eyeballs the better. You really are fortunate unless they are going
to nit pick your paper work. Remember, just one inspector by him self can
cause pain. You might find that the many inspectors could tend to reach a
good consensus rather than a one wrong answer.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron dewees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: FAA inspection N601TD
>
> Hi builders and Zenair drivers,
> I got the good news today and the bad news today. I requested that my
> local MIDO office inspect my Zenair 601 HDS TD and got the tentative
> inspection date of Jan 10. Apparently so far my paperwork is ok and the
> inspector quite friendly. He casually mentioned that his office usually
> doesn't do inspections but he is training a group of new inspectors with
> his office and will bring a gang with him. Wonder what I am in for?
> Anybody get caught on something not clear in the checklist? I am
> generally encouraged and have been impressed with the friendly but
> professional folks I have talked to at the MIDO.
> Wish me luck-- I know what my late Christmas peasant will be.
>
> Ron DeWees
> N601TD Jab 3300
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection N601TD |
Ron,
I don't know how it is in the US, but my experience in
Canada says "don't bring your headset on the
inspection day... you'll not need them".
I passed the pre-cover inspection in two stages
without a single snag... and despite my will to have a
perfect plane for the inspection, I had a list of 16
snags at the final inspection. It took a couple of
weeks to correct them all.
So... this being said, relax be prepared for a few
corrections.
The corrections I had to do were:
. safety wire at various places (distributor cap,
gascolator...)
. capacity label for the baggage compartment
. firewall seals around the push rods (I had to make
leather boots)
. verify battery tray design (checked with C. Heintz)
. verify propellor attachment (checked with Warp
Drive)
. ....
Michel
--- ron dewees wrote:
>
>
> Hi builders and Zenair drivers,
> I got the good news today and the bad news today. I
> requested that my
> local MIDO office inspect my Zenair 601 HDS TD and
> got the tentative
> inspection date of Jan 10. Apparently so far my
> paperwork is ok and the
> inspector quite friendly. He casually mentioned
> that his office usually
> doesn't do inspections but he is training a group of
> new inspectors with
> his office and will bring a gang with him. Wonder
> what I am in for?
> Anybody get caught on something not clear in the
> checklist? I am
> generally encouraged and have been impressed with
> the friendly but
> professional folks I have talked to at the MIDO.
> Wish me luck-- I know what my late Christmas
> peasant will be.
>
> Ron DeWees
> N601TD Jab 3300
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection N601TD |
Ron,
Many eyes will be good unless the head honcho wants to shove his authority around.
Make sure your gascolator is safetied, no loose runs of wires unsupported
anywhere, and that the green, yellow, red, segments on the airspeed indicator
are applied. Make sure your green goes below 50 mph just a bit - you DO want
to be a Light Sport Aircraft - remember?!?!?!?
You'll be fine. Best of Holidays...jeff
He casually mentioned that his office usually
doesn't do inspections but he is training a group of new inspectors with
his office and will bring a gang with him. Wonder what I am in for?
Anybody get caught on something not clear in the checklist? I am
generally encouraged and have been impressed with the friendly but
professional folks I have talked to at the MIDO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Fuel System Photos |
Carlos, I did not know the thread removed the photos. I sent them to Scott
and he received them. I will try to send them directly to you this evening. Is
there a faster way to get them attached ? It took 57 minutes run time to send
them last night. Regards, Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "royt.or(at)netzero.com" <royt.or(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | 601HDS main gear failure; possibly defective part |
Or how to close a runway at a Tower controlled airport with a Jet on 3 mile final!
Thursday evening, 12/16/04, after making a normal approach to landing, when I applied
the brakes in my CH601HDS w/tricycle gear, the left main gear failed. The
plane has 318 hours total time and has made 403 landings.
(No one was hurt and there is comparatively little damage to the plane. None of
the wings, fuselage, propeller etc touched the ground. There is a 2-3 inch hole
in the bottom wing skin behind the main gear box). The left entry step was
damaged. The left wing root fairing was crunched while moving the plane off the
active runway.)
The HD&HDS main gear legs are 2in steel tubes that have a square steel plate welded
to the bottom with a butt joint. Same design as the nose gear in all 601s
and I believe all 701s. The square steel plate that the wheel fork bolts to failed
around the weld. The weld itself held and is attached to the landing gear
tube still. Several mechanical engineers have looked at the failed parts and
believe the weld was not properly heat treated and or stress relieved. I'm not
ready to post pictures, but if you are keenely interested send me a private
message and I'll send a copy with the understanding they will not be forwarded
or posted.
I met with the FAA who said there did not appear to be a problem with my piloting.
I talked to the NTSB who classified this as an incident. The FAA person said
it would not be classified as an accident, but did not use the word incident.
I've sent an email to Zenith with several questions.
Happy Holidays and Best Regards,
Roy
N601RT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Fuel System Photos |
Bill and Carlos:
Let me put them on my website so everybody can look at them. I'll put them at
:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/GeorgiaBill.html
It should be working in 10 or 15 minutes.
Scott.
JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com wrote:
Carlos, I did not know the thread removed the photos. I sent them to Scott
and he received them. I will try to send them directly to you this evening. Is
there a faster way to get them attached ? It took 57 minutes run time to send
them last night. Regards, Bill of Georgia
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Jones" <fjones(at)sympatico.ca> |
I'd like to try the same thing out on mine and I'll report back any
speed improvement. Can you tell me where you placed them on the canopy?
Do you have a picture?
Info I have from Kelly's wing VGs is to place the centers of the pairs
7.35" apart with each pair at 38 degrees to each other and 2.45" apart
at the leading edge. Would they be best placed at the position on the
canopy that is tangent to the longerons?
Btw I just bent a VG made of 1/16" lexan in the oven and it looks good.
Double sided clear tape to attach would make them fairly invisible.
Frank Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601HDS main gear failure; possibly defective part |
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS main gear failure; possibly defective part
>
>
The square steel plate that the wheel fork bolts to failed around the weld.
The weld itself held and is attached to the landing gear tube still. Several
mechanical engineers have looked at the failed parts and believe the weld
was not properly heat treated and or stress relieved. I'm not ready to post
pictures, but if you are keenely interested send me a private message and
I'll send a copy with the understanding they will not be forwarded or
posted.
> Roy
> N601RT
Roy,
Very sorry to hear of your difficulty with the landing gear. This is the
first time I've heard of one of these
breaking. I used to be responsible for Army weld process and equipment, so
from this experience, I can
offer a best estimate of how to look at this.
If the plate totally separated from the weld with the weld still attached to
the gear, I'd say that the weld was
a cold-weld with less than adequate penetration. If the weld still attached
to the tube, has a ring of plate
attached to it, one could presume that the weld was cooled too rapidly and
stresses on the perimeter of
the weld fractured the plate because the plate became brittle and the tube
had shrinkage. Stress relieving
a weld that is done wrong will not often correct the problem of
imbrittlement, only lessen the odds of
fracture due to shrinkage. I'd guess at the very least that Zenith owes you
a new gear leg.
Pleased to hear you're O.K. and the airplane isn't worse off.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "royt.or(at)netzero.com" <royt.or(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601HDS main gear failure; possibly defective part |
Carlos,
Yes my plane was built from a kit with the part that failed coming from Zenith
in May of 1997.
Regards,
Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Meiste's" <meiste(at)essex1.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on canopy |
Can you tell me where you placed them on the canopy?
> Info I have from Kelly's wing VGs is to place the centers of the pairs
> 7.35" apart with each pair at 38 degrees to each other and 2.45" apart
> at the leading edge. Would they be best placed at the position on the
> canopy that is tangent to the longerons?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Frank,
I'm guessing the VG's on the canopy would need to be smaller and closer
together than the wing VG's (but keep the same 38 deg ang) .
When I begin my testing (probably next spring) I will start at the highest
point on the canopy arch, and with each test move the VG's back in 2 inch
increments. I'd probably just try using masking tape to hold the VG's on
until your were happy with the location (as the double back tape would be a
pain to remove from your canopy).
For my testing I'd try tapping on some tuff's of yarn on the rear of the
canopy & turtle deck just behind the canopy. Then go flying with a mirror to
check out how the tuff's are reacting to the VG's. Keep moving the VG's
until the tuff's of yarn all point towards your tail. You'll probably never
get that lucky but move them around until you get it as good as possible.
Good luck,
Kelly Meiste
601 HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Miller" <drmiller(at)cvillepsychology.net> |
| Subject: | microsoft flight simulator |
Has anyone used the Zodiac module for FS2002?
Somebody (from this list, I believe) said they used it to prepare for their first
flight and it was a big help. Unfortunately, I cannot get an airspeed indicator
to show up on the panel of either the HD or HDS obtained from the Zenith
website. Any tips?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Parts for Sale 601HD |
Merry Xmas to all...
I purchased a complete firewall forward (incl 912) from a gentleman who removed
it from his 601HD for another engine project.
I kept the 912 (for my 701 rebuild) and now have the following components for sale
that I cannot use on my project:
Engine mount for Rotax 912 $225
Oil cooler for same $75
Muffler kit $250
I have pictures for all of these at http://kolbpilot.com/joncroke/for_sale
Postage is inlcuded with these prices.
And in all fairness when dealing with used stuff, if, after purchasing these items
from me, after you receive them, you can examine them and then send them back
the next day if they do not meet your expectations. (You and I lose postage,
only).
First come, first served!
These should make great last minute Xmas gifts for yourself. (ho ho ho)
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Now part of the community of pilots! |
Hi group!
Some of you may remember I started flying lesson on
October 5th after I obtained the Airworthiness
certificate and had my test pilot check my instructor
for a few hours.
Well. I got the flight school boss to sign the back of
my student license today authorizing me to be on my
own (PPL license). He is sending the paperwork so I
will get the permanent license soon.
I started as I said on Oct 5th, had first solo on Oct
26, passed in-flight examination on November 22 (after
43 hours) and theory exam just yesterday! I now have
48.2 hours on the plane (flight time) and the aircraft
has 73.7 hours of air time.
I know most people have their first solo as their
prominent souvenir. For me, it is definitively the
solo cross-country flight (I did a different circuit
from the one I've done with the instructor).
I like my CH601-HD, it is fun and easy to fly and
handles very well in crosswinds.
Michel :)
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Now part of the community of pilots! |
Congratulations Michel,
You've accomplished a great deal since building your
601. It takes a lot of personal energy to make it all happen at once.
In the process, you shared your knowlege with
all of us and we appreciate that.
Fly safe, and again, congratulatons,
Larry McFarland 601HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Now part of the community of pilots!
>
> Hi group!
>
> Some of you may remember I started flying lesson on
> October 5th after I obtained the Airworthiness
> certificate and had my test pilot check my instructor
> for a few hours.
>
> Well. I got the flight school boss to sign the back of
> my student license today authorizing me to be on my
> own (PPL license). He is sending the paperwork so I
> will get the permanent license soon.
>
> I started as I said on Oct 5th, had first solo on Oct
> 26, passed in-flight examination on November 22 (after
> 43 hours) and theory exam just yesterday! I now have
> 48.2 hours on the plane (flight time) and the aircraft
> has 73.7 hours of air time.
>
> I know most people have their first solo as their
> prominent souvenir. For me, it is definitively the
> solo cross-country flight (I did a different circuit
> from the one I've done with the instructor).
>
> I like my CH601-HD, it is fun and easy to fly and
> handles very well in crosswinds.
>
> Michel :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alex trent <atrent7(at)cogeco.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 12/21/04 |
/ I would be very interested in a photo of your gear leg. I too
have closed a runway with a collapsed gear on my taildragger.
The ignomous ground loop. It really wasn't that bad if the gear had not
collapsed. I am in the process of repairing and plan on replacing the
complete leg. Your story of the failure at the weld has me concerned. My
weld held ok but the plate was badly bent along with the fork./
alex
atrent7(at)cogeco.ca
>From: "royt.or(at)netzero.com" <royt.or(at)netzero.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS main gear failure; possibly defective part
>
>
>Or how to close a runway at a Tower controlled airport with a Jet on 3 mile final!
>
>Thursday evening, 12/16/04, after making a normal approach to landing, when I
applied
>the brakes in my CH601HDS w/tricycle gear, the left main gear failed. The
>plane has 318 hours total time and has made 403 landings.
>
>(No one was hurt and there is comparatively little damage to the plane. None of
>the wings, fuselage, propeller etc touched the ground. There is a 2-3 inch hole
>in the bottom wing skin behind the main gear box). The left entry step was
>damaged. The left wing root fairing was crunched while moving the plane off the
>active runway.)
>
>The HD&HDS main gear legs are 2in steel tubes that have a square steel plate welded
>to the bottom with a butt joint. Same design as the nose gear in all 601s
>and I believe all 701s. The square steel plate that the wheel fork bolts to failed
>around the weld. The weld itself held and is attached to the landing gear
>tube still. Several mechanical engineers have looked at the failed parts and
>believe the weld was not properly heat treated and or stress relieved. I'm not
>ready to post pictures, but if you are keenely interested send me a private
>message and I'll send a copy with the understanding they will not be forwarded
>or posted.
>
>I met with the FAA who said there did not appear to be a problem with my piloting.
>I talked to the NTSB who classified this as an incident. The FAA person said
>it would not be classified as an accident, but did not use the word incident.
>
>
>I've sent an email to Zenith with several questions.
>Happy Holidays and Best Regards,
>
>Roy
>N601RT
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fulp" <jrfulp(at)ncia.net> |
I copied this info from the www.sportplanes.com website. Has anyone heard when the new model will be available? I have the rudder/horizontal tail complete and would like to have a higher gross
weight plane.
John
STOL CH 701 aircraft is being redesigned to meet the sLSA and eLSA standards. It
was developed as an "off-airport" short take-off and landing kit aircraft to
fulfill the demanding requirements of both sport pilots and first-time builders.
First introduced in 1986. A new model is being developed for the sLSA and
eLSA category. It will have higher gross weight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | gear leg failure |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> Yes my plane was built from a kit with the part that failed coming from Zenith
> in May of 1997.
I know of one other similar failure that occurred locally. Are there any
others 'out there'? Maybe there's a group of bad welds all produced around
the same time by the same employee of Zenair?
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)ciaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection N601TD |
>The corrections I had to do were:
>. safety wire at various places (distributor cap,
>gascolator...)
Hi Michel
How did you safety wire the distrubutor cap?
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron dewees <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection N601TD |
Hi listers,
Thanks so much for the encouragement and ideas for the inspection. I
thought I was almost ready for the FAA, but will check it over again and
incorporate your suggestions. I'm sure not Santa Claus, but I am
checking my list twice or more now.
Ron N601TD
Jim and Lucy wrote:
>
>
>
>>The corrections I had to do were:
>>. safety wire at various places (distributor cap,
>>gascolator...)
>>
>>
>
>
>Hi Michel
>
>How did you safety wire the distrubutor cap?
>
>
>Jim Pollard
>Merlin Ont.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg failure |
Scott Laughlin here - I'd like to provide some input on this subject. I did something
different from the plans that I hope is an improvement. I'm talking about
just the nose-gear since I'm using the 601XL aluminum main gear.
I used a thicker material for the plate and drilled a 2" hole in the middle to
insert the 2" pipe. It was a tight fit. Then I welded it on the bottom and on
the top. Here's a photo before welding:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_12_04_flange.JPG
Here's a photo after gas-welding the bottom:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_12_04_flange2.JPG
I suspect gas-welding takes care of the worries of improper stress-relieving and
the weight of the thicker material is offset by the loss of material from the
hole.
Comments, questions, concerns?
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Grant Corriveau wrote:
> Yes my plane was built from a kit with the part that failed coming from Zenith
> in May of 1997.
I know of one other similar failure that occurred locally.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg failure |
Scott,
Heavier thickness does add strength to the remaining material, but the hole
in the plate permits flexure more readily on any one side, where without a
hole, the stresses were shared across the entire diameter of the weld.
The center material reinforces rigidity of the whole weld, where any point
on the rim with the hole can bend more readily and flex until the weld gives
way. If you have any problems with the gear, it will probably fail on only
one side and bend about the rest.
Welds on two sides can also concentrate too much heat on an area and cause
stress-cracking if the heat isn't really controlled to acheive a nearly
annealed condition.
I'd have only added a small 1/8" drain hole and kept the weld down to one
good fillet-weld, tube to plate.
This is just a note of caution where I think the original designer had it
right the first time.
Best regards, respectfully,
Larry McFarland
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: gear leg failure
>
> Scott Laughlin here - I'd like to provide some input on this subject. I
> did something different from the plans that I hope is an improvement. I'm
> talking about just the nose-gear since I'm using the 601XL aluminum main
> gear.
>
> I used a thicker material for the plate and drilled a 2" hole in the
> middle to insert the 2" pipe. It was a tight fit. Then I welded it on the
> bottom and on the top. Here's a photo before welding:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_12_04_flange.JPG
>
> Here's a photo after gas-welding the bottom:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_12_04_flange2.JPG
>
> I suspect gas-welding takes care of the worries of improper
> stress-relieving and the weight of the thicker material is offset by the
> loss of material from the hole.
>
> Comments, questions, concerns?
>
> Scott Laughlin
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotax 912 vs 912S for the CH701 |
| From: | Jeffrey A Beachy <beachyjeff(at)juno.com> |
I will be building a 701 next year. I would appreciate some input on the
912 vs the 912S for my plane.
Details:
I weigh 170 lbs. My family (except for a 230 lb brother who will fly in
this plane) is all my weight or lighter. I do not foresee ever using
floats. I will fly off of a grass strip, plenty of length with no
obstructions. Much of my flying will be in my local area (flat farmland)
with some occasional trips to airports within 200 miles or so. Cost
between the 912 and 912S is not a factor.
My motivating factor in considering the 912S is a higher cruise speed for
when I fly around Ohio. I have also read here on list of the 100 hp 912S
being "too much engine" for the 701. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
I would especially appreciate any input from those of you who have flown
the 701 with both engines and can directly compare between them.
Thank-you to all.
Jeff Beachy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection N601TD |
There are two clips on each side to hold the cap. I
simply had a wire around the cap also catching the two
clips. The wire prevents the clips from opening. If
you want my opinion, this is useless as I don't see
how the clips would open in the first place.... but
the inspector insisted on that. One benefit I see is
that with one quick look, you see that all is OK. I
also had to secure the timing adjustment bolt on the
distributor.
Michel
--- Jim and Lucy wrote:
>
>
> >The corrections I had to do were:
> >. safety wire at various places (distributor cap,
> >gascolator...)
>
>
> Hi Michel
>
> How did you safety wire the distrubutor cap?
>
>
> Jim Pollard
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg failure |
Larry:
Thanks for the reply. I was hoping you would give me some advise here. I found
that it's easier to get a good weld on the bottom where the pipe goes through
the hole. Gas-welding a piece of pipe to a plate has been a challenge to me
for some reason and it's hard for me to tell if I'm getting good penetration on
the top.
Since my wheel fork is 3/8" thick, with six bolts, I don't think the little plate
will have much of a chance to bend just one side, but time will tell. I plan
to do a lot of taxi-testing so the wheel configuration will get a pretty good
workout before it ever leaves the ground. I'll be able to inspect it since
the fairings won't be installed until the very last thing.
Thanks as always for your input.
Scott Laughlin
Larry McFarland wrote:
Scott,
Heavier thickness does add strength to the remaining material, but the hole
in the plate permits flexure more readily on any one side, where without a
hole, the stresses were shared across the entire diameter of the weld.
The center material reinforces rigidity of the whole weld, where any point
on the rim with the hole can bend more readily and flex until the weld gives
way. If you have any problems with the gear, it will probably fail on only
one side and bend about the rest.
Welds on two sides can also concentrate too much heat on an area and cause
stress-cracking if the heat isn't really controlled to acheive a nearly
annealed condition.
I'd have only added a small 1/8" drain hole and kept the weld down to one
good fillet-weld, tube to plate.
This is just a note of caution where I think the original designer had it
right the first time.
Best regards, respectfully,
Larry McFarland
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL"
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: gear leg failure
>
> Scott Laughlin here - I'd like to provide some input on this subject. I
> did something different from the plans that I hope is an improvement. I'm
> talking about just the nose-gear since I'm using the 601XL aluminum main
> gear.
>
> I used a thicker material for the plate and drilled a 2" hole in the
> middle to insert the 2" pipe. It was a tight fit. Then I welded it on the
> bottom and on the top. Here's a photo before welding:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_12_04_flange.JPG
>
> Here's a photo after gas-welding the bottom:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_12_04_flange2.JPG
>
> I suspect gas-welding takes care of the worries of improper
> stress-relieving and the weight of the thicker material is offset by the
> loss of material from the hole.
>
> Comments, questions, concerns?
>
> Scott Laughlin
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
Gus,
Do you have any additional information about the
exact height and width of the new TD gear? I bent my
HDS gear to the same dimentions as the XL gear, but I
plan to mount it externally, so it might work out O.K.
I still have not drilled for the axles, so a small
amount of adjustment can still be made.
Also, for anyone with an HDS TD model, where do
the axles end up longitudinally, 90 deg from the lower
longeron? They look to be pretty much lined up with
the leading edge of the wing, but I would like to be
slightly more precise than "Look to be" from a
picture.:)
Respectfully,
Brandon Tucker
HDS Wings, tail done
Fuselage mostly clecoed
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hi Brandon;
The axle does line up with the leading edge. You will find that that is
usual for most TD's.
Regards
Mike
UHS Spinners
Brandon Tucker wrote:
>
> Gus,
>
> Do you have any additional information about the
> exact height and width of the new TD gear? I bent my
> HDS gear to the same dimentions as the XL gear, but I
> plan to mount it externally, so it might work out O.K.
> I still have not drilled for the axles, so a small
> amount of adjustment can still be made.
>
> Also, for anyone with an HDS TD model, where do
> the axles end up longitudinally, 90 deg from the lower
> longeron? They look to be pretty much lined up with
> the leading edge of the wing, but I would like to be
> slightly more precise than "Look to be" from a
> picture.:)
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Brandon Tucker
> HDS Wings, tail done
> Fuselage mostly clecoed
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | 701 - Attaching O.B. Hinge Plate to Rib - Stabilizer Question |
Listers,
We are getting ready to skin the stabilizer on our 701. Should there be a
reinforcing 'L' behind the 7H1-1 outboard rib to strengthen this area. The
Hinge is 7H3-1 O.B. Hinge Plate, and the drawing reference is 7-H-3. I've
looked but can't find a reference but since I'm new at this, I may be
missing the obvious.
Thanks,
Tommy Walker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron dewees <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
Mike Fothergill wrote:
>
>Hi Brandon;
>The axle does line up with the leading edge. You will find that that is
>usual for most TD's.
>Regards
>Mike
>UHS Spinners
>
>
Hi Mike,
My TD main gear precedes the leading edge by about 1/2 inch. You have
to make sure to elevate the tail to parallel to the ground to get an
accurate measurement. A plumbob is helpful. Also you can check the
lateral alignment of the axles by looking thru the hollow axles to the
opposite axle on the other wing. It's like looking thru a telescopic
sight. If the opposite axle is centered, the alignment is totally
perpendicular to the C/L of the fusalage. There is argument back and
forth about toe in or out, but at least be sure you know where neutral
is before you mess with it (IMHO)
Ron
N601TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hi;
I use the thru the axle sighting to get the gear parallel too. It works
for me.
I don't think .5 inches will make much difference. The effect of load/CG
changes will make for greater change.
Mike
UHS Spinners
ron dewees wrote:
>
> Mike Fothergill wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Hi Brandon;
>>The axle does line up with the leading edge. You will find that that is
>>usual for most TD's.
>>Regards
>>Mike
>>UHS Spinners
>>
>>
>
> Hi Mike,
> My TD main gear precedes the leading edge by about 1/2 inch. You have
> to make sure to elevate the tail to parallel to the ground to get an
> accurate measurement. A plumbob is helpful. Also you can check the
> lateral alignment of the axles by looking thru the hollow axles to the
> opposite axle on the other wing. It's like looking thru a telescopic
> sight. If the opposite axle is centered, the alignment is totally
> perpendicular to the C/L of the fusalage. There is argument back and
> forth about toe in or out, but at least be sure you know where neutral
> is before you mess with it (IMHO)
>
> Ron
> N601TD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Butler <tabranch(at)yahoo.com> |
My partner decided to hang up his wings so our recently completed CH801 is
going to be sold unless I find a new partner close by. We have 60 hours on the
plane and Superior XP360. It is all electric and is really a STOL airplane.
Tom Butler
N801TB
Payson, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fligh Sim Zodiacs |
Hi Bob, and others who would like to use Flight Simulator Zodiacs
The Zodiacs I made for Zenith at their website are a bit dated, and somehow I forgot
the
Airspeed Indicator in that package long ago.
But I have re-made them (several times), and you can find my complete and much
improved
Zodiac line-up for FS2002 and FS2004 at my website:
http://www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl
Merry Christmas, all!
Paul
>
> From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller(at)cvillepsychology.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: microsoft flight simulator
>
>
>
> Has anyone used the Zodiac module for FS2002?
> Somebody (from this list, I believe) said they used it to prepare for
> their first flight and it was a big help. Unfortunately, I cannot get
> an airspeed indicator to show up on the panel of either the HD or HDS
> obtained from the Zenith website. Any tips? Bob
>
Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300, finishing stages
Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: http://www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl
Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 Engine Choice.... |
Jeff,
This is a good time to bring this up as I am ordering my 912 or 912s this
week. I have always planned on getting a 912s from the start of the project. I
planned on putting the plane on floats at a later date thus the "s". After
much investment in getting this project where it is, I feel the float investment
slipping a couple of years or more. Will I be happy flying with the 912s for
this amount of time wishing I had gotten the 912 ? Has anyone with either of
these engines have any regrets that they should have gotten the other one. I
purchased the 912s firewall fwd package with my kit. I talked to Seb at
Zenith today and he said going to the 912 is not a problem with any of the
provided components, even the prop. I am not looking for speed here either.
Thanks for any input.
Brian
Long Island,NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Ready" <jready(at)efni.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CH801 for sale |
What is the asking price? And do you have any pics to see?
Jason
(someday I will have my plane to put near the fishing cabin)
"Are you still wasting your time with spam?...
There is a solution!"
Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector
The most powerful anti-spam software available.
http://mail.spaminspector.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Szewc <szewc(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Engine Choice.... |
Brian,
I have the 912S on mine and have 72 hours on the airplane. I do not
regret having the extra power. Of course I live in southern Oregon where
there are mountains and the temperatures can get up to 100 degrees or
more in the summer. I have heard/read that some people think the 912S is
too much for the airplane, but I disagree, I think it is perfect. It's
better to have enough power at 5000' on a 90 degree day than not enough
and have to wait until morning. Of course that is usually the formula
for a bumpy ride also : )
Ken Szewc
N701SZ 72 hours (finally getting around to painting this week) Floats
are patiently waiting to be built.
Jeff,
This is a good time to bring this up as I am ordering my 912 or 912s
this
week. I have always planned on getting a 912s from the start of the
project. I
planned on putting the plane on floats at a later date thus the "s".
After
much investment in getting this project where it is, I feel the float
investment
slipping a couple of years or more. Will I be happy flying with the
912s for
this amount of time wishing I had gotten the 912 ? Has anyone with
either of
these engines have any regrets that they should have gotten the other
one. I
purchased the 912s firewall fwd package with my kit. I talked to Seb at
Zenith today and he said going to the 912 is not a problem with any of
the
provided components, even the prop. I am not looking for speed here
either.
Thanks for any input.
Brian
Long Island,NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Fuel System Photos |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Fuel System Photos |
Frank, Sorry took a while to respond I was buffing out the paint last night
till one and just came in tonight. I have two wing tanks; gravity feed to the
fuel valve, then to the gasolator, then to the electric fuel pump mounted on
the floor just forward of the rudder doubler bar. Then through the firewall to
inline filter, then to mech fuel pump, then the carb. Jabiru says to mount
electric pump inside as to is not to get more than 140 degrees. Everything up to
the electric pump is inches below the fuel tank exit nipple so gravity should
do it's magic. Remember the wings are not level, they go up out board and the
in board exit nipple is almost a foot up wing, four wing ribs worth ? No plans
for inverted flight anyway. Merry Christmas to you and yours, Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 - Attaching O.B. Hinge Plate to Rib - Stabilizer |
Question
Tommy,
I looked at my stabilizer and I riveted the hinge plate directly to the end
rib and there is no reinforcing L on the inside. I looked over my plans 4th
edition, they do not specify any L angle in that location. Look on builder
pages and look at updates of plans. There is a new revision plans. There is a
document with updates included in the 5th edition 4th revision
dated Nov 23 2004 and there is some updates for the horizontal stabilizer
and elevator.
Some of those updates might come in handy while you're skinning it.
Brian
>Should there be a reinforcing 'L' behind the 7H1-1 outboard rib to
strengthen this area.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert C. Owens" <bobowens(at)avlaw.com> |
| Subject: | Update to 701 plans |
I read where there is a new revision to the 701 drawings, a 11/23/04 4th
revision to the 5th edition of the 701 plans. Is that true and how can I
get it?
I also read that this revision or a new revision is in the works to increase
the GW for the new LSA rule. Is this true?
Bob
Robert C. Owens
Board Certified in Aviation Law
www.avlaw.com
Available 24/7 at:
AvLaw
6630 SW 50th Terrace
Miami, Florida 33155
Tel: (305) 669-9263
Fax: (305) 662-7151
Cell: (305) 586-3721
Email: bobowens(at)avlaw.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Update to 701 plans |
Why is every looking for a increase in Gross weight to meet LSA? As long as
the gross weight is BELOW 1320 you are o.k. in that department.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert C. Owens" <bobowens(at)avlaw.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Update to 701 plans
>
> I read where there is a new revision to the 701 drawings, a 11/23/04 4th
> revision to the 5th edition of the 701 plans. Is that true and how can I
> get it?
>
> I also read that this revision or a new revision is in the works to
increase
> the GW for the new LSA rule. Is this true?
>
> Bob
>
>
> Robert C. Owens
>
> Board Certified in Aviation Law
>
> www.avlaw.com
>
atures/www.avlaw.com>
>
>
> Available 24/7 at:
>
> AvLaw
>
> 6630 SW 50th Terrace
>
> Miami, Florida 33155
>
> Tel: (305) 669-9263
>
> Fax: (305) 662-7151
>
> Cell: (305) 586-3721
>
> Email: bobowens(at)avlaw.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Update to 701 plans |
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:56:50 -0600
>
>Why is every looking for a increase in Gross weight to meet LSA? As long as
>the gross weight is BELOW 1320 you are o.k. in that department.
I guess to carry more stuff or heavier passengers. If you redesign from 1150 to
1320 you can carry 170# more "stuff". Talked to Sebastian a few min. ago and
straight from the horses mouth " There is work being done to bring the PRODUCTION
701 to market under the LSA rules but it will not effect either the kit
or plans version of that aircraft." There you have it. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 912 Engine chosen |
Thanks Ken,Dave,and Gary for your thoughts and experience.
Since I live at sea level and will do most of my flying in this area and not in
mountains I will get the 80 hp engine and not the 100. I'ts definately the most
realistic choice for what I'll be doing.
With that decision made I called Warp drive Inc this morning and talked to Daryll
about the change from the 912s to the 912. I received a 70" 3 blade warp drive
prop with my Zenith firewall kit. He said that the blades be cut down to give
an overall 68" diam prop for the 80 hp. The factory will do all 3 blades for
about 30 dollors. He was very familiar with all Zenith models, engine choices,
and prop choices for each. He also noted that all blades are cast at 72" and
tips cut down to specified size.
Here is a link to the price increase warning at a Rotax retailer.This is causing
me to act quick and avoid the higher costs a couple months from now. Thanks
to the guys who tipped the list off to the increase.
http://www.recreationalmobility.com/cgi-bin/recreation/19443.html
Brian Unruh
Long Island
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Update to 701 plans |
You have to be registered as a builder on the web site.
Go to the builder pages and you will see links under 701 section.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roma L. Skinner" <roma(at)airmail.net> |
I have 2 hrs on N701LJ and it is running about 130 F oil temp, any ideas on blocking
a portion of the oil cooler to increase the temps, 912s
thanks
Roma Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Keeners" <kim.forest(at)surewest.net> |
| Subject: | Landing Gear Question |
Zodiac Builders:
With all of the talk about the recent gear failure, I happened to notice that some
of the XLs have landing gear that appears more round (curved) vs. the more
straight looking gear on the factory XL. Does anyone know why this is? Is there
an "aftermarket" company that sells a BETTER version of the gear for our
XLs?
Thank you!
Forest K.
N601FK - Reserved
Rudder Started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cdngoose" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Landing Gear Question |
You are most likely referring to the Fiberglass main gear that can be
purchased from Czech aircraft for the 601XL. IT is rounded and a lot
lighter.
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of The Keeners
Subject: Zenith-List: Landing Gear Question
Zodiac Builders:
With all of the talk about the recent gear failure, I happened to notice
that some of the XLs have landing gear that appears more round (curved)
vs. the more straight looking gear on the factory XL. Does anyone know
why this is? Is there an "aftermarket" company that sells a BETTER
version of the gear for our XLs?
Thank you!
Forest K.
N601FK - Reserved
Rudder Started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rmtnview(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil temp 701 |
Not knowing a thing about this engine, I would be leary of blocking anything
cooling until I verified that I had a real problem and not a bad indicator,
(sensor or gage). I would hate to fry an engine because of a bad indicator.
Just my $.02. rog
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VideoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Question |
In a message dated 601xl(at)sympatico.ca writes:
<<>
<>
Any details on how to obtain this gear? And its cost?
Dave Harms
videoflyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scotty scotty <scotty245(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Which spinner for 701? |
Is a spinner for the 701 with a Powerfin 3 blade model-F-68" helpful? Will a spinner
help clean up the airflow going into cowling particular for cooling purposes(aircooled
Hirth engine), maybe even help cruise speed one or two MPH, or
just throwing money into the wind? What diameter to use and are the ones from
Aircraft Spruce for approx $100 ok?
Thanks for the posts to my last question.
Scotty
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Stout <n282rs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Which spinner for 701? |
I had this same prop on my 601 when I had the VW installed. I think the experts
will agree that a spinner is always good. Your CHT will be lower and it will
help streamline the air flow into and round the cowl. The spinner I used was a
12 inch aluminum from Greatplains AS. I can tell you that I think I would have
preferred a slightly smaller spinner (10 inch) as the trailing edge of the
blade were nearly toughing the aft spinner bulkhead. A smaller spinner would have
allowed me to have a bit more pitch in the prop.
Randy Stout
n282rs "at" earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
-----Original Message-----
From: scotty scotty <scotty245(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Which spinner for 701?
Is a spinner for the 701 with a Powerfin 3 blade model-F-68" helpful? Will a spinner
help clean up the airflow going into cowling particular for cooling purposes(aircooled
Hirth engine), maybe even help cruise speed one or two MPH, or
just throwing money into the wind? What diameter to use and are the ones from
Aircraft Spruce for approx $100 ok?
Thanks for the posts to my last question.
Scotty
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil temp 701 |
The indicator is OK, the main problem with the 912S is geeting the oil hot, then
keeping it in range... we have 1/2 of the rad blocked and here, our winter
is not as cold like your winter season in USA.
One of the Club member installed a accesory, like a pressure termostat, that will
prevent the oil to go to the radiator until has certain temperature (viscosity?)
. I supose is sold by Lockwood (?) he will test it (he bought it :-),
if it works as spected, then we (the rest of the gang) might instal it in our
engines...
Any comments/users in the list?
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
Guadalajara, Mexico.
"Wearing the leather jacket in the motorcycle"
Rmtnview(at)aol.com wrote:
Not knowing a thing about this engine, I would be leary of blocking anything
cooling until I verified that I had a real problem and not a bad indicator,
(sensor or gage). I would hate to fry an engine because of a bad indicator.
Just my $.02. rog
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ozarkseller2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Question |
In a message dated 12/23/2004 8:44:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,
601xl(at)sympatico.ca writes:
You are most likely referring to the Fiberglass main gear that can be
purchased from Czech aircraft for the 601XL. IT is rounded and a lot
lighter.
When I recently inquired of the factory, they told me the gear was not
available for sale s
separately. Has this policy suddenly changed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ozarkseller2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Question |
In a message dated 12/23/2004 10:10:39 P.M. Central Standard Time,
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com writes:
In a message dated 601xl(at)sympatico.ca writes:
<>
<>
Any details on how to obtain this gear? And its cost?
Per my recent inquiry of the factory, they would not sell the gear
separately. Does anyone know of a sudden change in this policy?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cdngoose" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Landing Gear Question |
You will need to contact Chip Erwin directly at Czech aircraft works. He
is a member of this list but seldom would you hear from him if it
involves any type of advertisement of his products. I did inquire awhile
ago about the landing gear and got a cost but I felt I was too far along
with the aluminum gear to change. Plus I had a weird feeling about
composite landing gear and Canadian weather. You can contact Chip
directly from his website at http://www.czaw.cz/ Another thing you may
wish to inquire about is the sport Prop he offers. I hear great things
about it.
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Landing Gear Question
In a message dated 601xl(at)sympatico.ca writes:
<<>
<>
Any details on how to obtain this gear? And its cost?
Dave Harms
videoflyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil temp 701 |
Roma,
I use aluminium tape to part or totally cover the cooler, but mine is inside
the cowl.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil temp. on 701 of 130oF |
I second the advice that you should check the reliability of your
temperature gauge before blocking off the coolant radiator. 130oF sounds
really rather unbelievably low. I have had five faulty gauges, nearly all
of which had to be replaced, and all of which, of course, were out of
warranty. These included the tach for my 912S (Mitchell, read about 2/3
of the correct value, and nearly cost me the engine), a magnetic compass
(Airpath, Southern Field, there was one point where it stuck), an oil
pressure gauge (VDO, it reads 2/3 of the correct value, checked with an
accurate pressure gauge in the line with the engine running; I am living
with this one, because I know it reads 40 psi when the correct value is
60), non-sensitive altimeter (UMA, read 300 feet low), and a 30-0-30
ammeter (VDO, would not centre, but this one was partly my fault). All
were new instruments when installed, although several had been sitting on
a shelf in my (heated) basement for several years (thus, out of warranty).
I am rather ticked about this; it has been expensive. Thus, from my
experience, it is reasonable to suspect a faulty gauge!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with Rotax 912S, Toronto/Waterloo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Landing gear question |
Gents,
Check the archives on this subject. I have
posted quite a bit of information. Chip told me that
he would sell the gear separately, but you are on your
own for installation. It is a 2 piece gear, which
requires some modification to the mounts for
installation. It is significantly lighter - by at
least 40%. Cost is estimated to be around the price
of the Grove aluminum gear at just under $1000. I
don't know anyone who has done this route.
The Grove gear weighs 28lbs, and the price
includes gun drilled oil lines. It is just over half
the metal width as the XL stock gear, so modifications
will be required to the mount (just some spacer blocks
will probably suffice.) You could also bend your own
gear like I did (although for my HDS). If you send me
a private e-mail, I can fill you in on that.
Respectfully,
Brandon
HDS wings, tail done
Fuselage completely clecoed
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Russell <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil temp 701 |
Roma: You might want to think about a thermostat on you oil filter. Check out the sandwich adaptors at http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm . I don't know about the rotax but my jabiru dealer installed one on his. I will probably do the same. Jack in Clovis CA
L. Skinner"
I have 2 hrs on N701LJ and it is running about 130 F oil temp, any ideas on blocking
a portion of the oil cooler to increase the temps, 912s
thanks
Roma Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 601 XL Fuel System Photos |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
And you Bill...Yes the pump NOT on the firewall is a bonus...Watch out
for doing slips to landing!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Fuel System Photos
Frank, Sorry took a while to respond I was buffing out the paint last
night
till one and just came in tonight. I have two wing tanks; gravity feed
to the
fuel valve, then to the gasolator, then to the electric fuel pump
mounted on
the floor just forward of the rudder doubler bar. Then through the
firewall to
inline filter, then to mech fuel pump, then the carb. Jabiru says to
mount
electric pump inside as to is not to get more than 140 degrees.
Everything up to
the electric pump is inches below the fuel tank exit nipple so gravity
should
do it's magic. Remember the wings are not level, they go up out board
and the
in board exit nipple is almost a foot up wing, four wing ribs worth ? No
plans
for inverted flight anyway. Merry Christmas to you and yours, Bill of
Georgia
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| From: | Ken Szewc <szewc(at)direcway.com> |
Easiest - Duct tape is the quickest.
Little work - A ducted butterfly valve will give you some control of
airflow
More work - Lockwood sells an oil temperature regulator for the Rotax
912/912S engine
I am still using duct tape for mine. I plan on putting in the regulator
when I change the cowl (I don't like the ZAC cowl). But that is a future
project.
Ken
N701SZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roma L.
Skinner
Subject: Zenith-List: Oil temp 701
I have 2 hrs on N701LJ and it is running about 130 F oil temp, any ideas
on blocking a portion of the oil cooler to increase the temps, 912s
thanks
Roma Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Mulloy <cdmbam(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Selling my Corvair Conversion |
Complete Conversion, New Ross forged pistons, Total
seal rings, Cylinders .020 over, Mains and rods .010
under. New OT-10 Cam, Billet gear with safety ring.
Rods re-bushed and balanced with new ARP rod bolts,
Threaded (drop in crank) by William Wynne. New SS
valves, seats, bronze safety guides, springs, rockers,
pushrods, spacers, keys, lifters, oil pump, filter
bypass valves, dynamic damper all from Clarks. New
top cover from WW, machined aluminum pan from Clarks,
Dual point distributor from WW, Bosch coils & MSD
switch, New front low profile starter with brackets,
John Deere alternator & regulator, Safety shaft,
Hybrid studs, Puck, Ring gear, Alternator pulley &
Prop hub from WW, MA3A carburetor with induction
tubing (not fabricated) and much more. Ignition wires
and alternator bracket needed for instillation (not
included). These items are readily available. I
intended to use this engine in my 601XL but the mount
and cowling were not available at the time so I used
another engine. This is an excellent engine choice if
you are building a 601 or similar type aircraft.
$5000.00 Chuck Mulloy 623 546 1238 cdmbam(at)yahoo.com
__________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <PAULROD36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Question |
You are probably talking about the Czech landing gear. It's supposed to be about
28 pounds lighter, and less likely to take a set after a hard landing. That's
the good news. The bad news is, I asked their US distributor, and was told
they won't sell the landing gear separately. When I questioned that, I got back
that they were concerned with "support issues". Like there's so much technical
info you need on a piece of curved fiberglass? Well, it's their company
and they can run it any way they want to, but they are clearly missing out on
some sales.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL-corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: The Keeners<mailto:kim.forest(at)surewest.net>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Landing Gear Question
Zodiac Builders:
With all of the talk about the recent gear failure, I happened to notice that
some of the XLs have landing gear that appears more round (curved) vs. the more
straight looking gear on the factory XL. Does anyone know why this is? Is
there an "aftermarket" company that sells a BETTER version of the gear for our
XLs?
Thank you!
Forest K.
N601FK - Reserved
Rudder Started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wscribb" <wscribb(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Landing gear question |
Hello All,
The spring gear from Robbie at Grove is great. It is 4 1/2 inches wide by
7/8 inch thickness 2024 T3 material, and saves approximately 17 pounds over
the factory designed gear. I have the first Grove XL spring gear, I worked
with Robbie about 18 months ago for this design. I modified the gear
channel and mounts to accept the narrower gear, should have the plane on its
gear before the New Year.
Email me directly if you'd like additional information or pictures of the
gear mount weldment.
V/R
Bill Cribb
601XL from plans
About 75% finished
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Landing gear question
Gents,
Check the archives on this subject. I have posted quite a bit of
information. Chip told me that he would sell the gear separately, but you
are on your own for installation. It is a 2 piece gear, which requires some
modification to the mounts for installation. It is significantly lighter -
by at least 40%. Cost is estimated to be around the price of the Grove
aluminum gear at just under $1000. I don't know anyone who has done this
route.
The Grove gear weighs 28lbs, and the price includes gun drilled oil
lines. It is just over half the metal width as the XL stock gear, so
modifications will be required to the mount (just some spacer blocks will
probably suffice.) You could also bend your own gear like I did (although
for my HDS). If you send me a private e-mail, I can fill you in on that.
Respectfully,
Brandon
HDS wings, tail done
Fuselage completely clecoed
__________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Rmtnview(at)aol.com |