Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-fd
October 23, 2005 - November 09, 2005
Hello Mark,
Here is a local guy, (to us around the Colorado Springs area) who has put a camera
into his Vertical Stabilizer on his RV-8A. It might help you out.
http://www.rv8a.com/stabcam/index.htm
Keith
CH701 (still trying to build)
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
**********************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Zodie Rocket |
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
Hi Guys, I'm running wires and final closing structures in my 601XL and
I want to install a remote camera on the top of my rudder for taping in
flight video's. I remember some discussion before on this, but would
like an update on the idea. Anyone done this and if so hints and tricks
please and some camera suggestions would be nice.
Thanks
cdngoose
--
10/21/2005
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************************************
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trell & Amy Hall" <hallsplace(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Camera |
here is larry bowman site on how he done his cam in the tail. great videos
too
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2004/10/tail_cam.html
Trell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder Camera
>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder Camera
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:10:48 -0600
> From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com>
> To:
>
>
> Hello Mark,
>
> Here is a local guy, (to us around the Colorado Springs area) who has put
a camera into his Vertical Stabilizer on his RV-8A. It might help you out.
>
> http://www.rv8a.com/stabcam/index.htm
>
> Keith
> CH701 (still trying to build)
> N 38.9947
> W 105.1305
> Alt. 9,100'
> **********************************************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Zodie Rocket
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Camera
>
>
> Mark Townsend
> Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
> president@can-zacaviation.com
> www.can-zacaviation.com
>
> Hi Guys, I'm running wires and final closing structures in my 601XL and
> I want to install a remote camera on the top of my rudder for taping in
> flight video's. I remember some discussion before on this, but would
> like an update on the idea. Anyone done this and if so hints and tricks
> please and some camera suggestions would be nice.
>
> Thanks
> cdngoose
>
> --
> 10/21/2005
>
>
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>
> ************************************
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended
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If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please
note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of
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virus transmitted by this e-mail.
> ************************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Mattson" <dougmattson(at)isp.com> |
Does it make any difference what orientation the Facet fuel pumps are
mounted in? I would like to put mine vertical.
Doug Mattson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Charles F. Long ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Charles F. Long
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Cooling improvements on the Zenith 601HDS w/Jabiru 3300
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 oil leak solved. |
Johann
I'm glad that you finally got the leak fixed without having to replace your
heads. HAPPY FLYING!
Bob Spudis
CH701/912S almost done painting need another one good day of weather
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <lrm01(at)centurytel.net> |
No, not as long as you got the in and out right.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Mattson" <dougmattson(at)isp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: fuel pump
>
> Does it make any difference what orientation the Facet fuel pumps are
> mounted in? I would like to put mine vertical.
>
> Doug Mattson
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Norris" <DryCreekRob(at)earthlink.net> |
Is there any way to tell the poor quality bearings from the good ones by inspection?
The original bearings in my wheels (sold to me through Zenith in 1998)
were Chinese-made and of poor quality, and have been problematic for the
new owners of Matco - new, that is, since they bought the company in
2000. I was mistaken in my earlier note saying that these should have
been tapered roller bearings. According to George Happ at Matco, they
were always ball bearings, and that's what my new bearings are as well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Debo Cox <sky_ranger161(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | "Machined" Riveter Heads |
0.22 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com
Hi guys,
I'm just getting started with a 601 HD project and am
curious about the "machined" riveter heads required by
Zenith. Am I over-simplifying this, or can't I just
take a round grinding stone on my Dremel and "machine"
'em myself?
I know they're supposed to be ground to the same
diameter as the rivet head. Is there another way that
people are doing this, or is it something I should buy
from ZAC?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Debo Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Transceiver Headsets |
Dear Thread Friends, though my XL with 3300 Jab is a pretty quite flying toy
both my head sets are over 15 years old and mostly bummed out. Thought I
would buy my sweet wife a new one (and one for me to) so that when I get the
remainder of these dammed 40 hours flown off she will have nice new headset to
use
to fly with me. Problem is there are hundreds of headsets available at all
different costs with all different kinds of "bells and whistles" options. What
I want is a headset that also has a features that negates noise and is stereo
for my tunes and costs around $400. Anybody got a suggestion that gets close?
Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Machined" Riveter Heads |
Debo,
A Dremel is exactly what I used. It may take about 30 minutes, but is
definitely doable. You may wish to shape your grinding stone ahead of time
as they are usually a little to pointed to start with. I used plenty of oil
while grinding, too. You can use a rivet to check the grind and be sure to
stop grinding before you have surpassed the diameter if the rivet. If you do
grind too deep, just flatten the face of the head a little.
Good luck,
Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca
601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete
Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Debo Cox" <sky_ranger161(at)yahoo.com>
From:contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters"@roxy.matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: "Machined" Riveter Heads
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm just getting started with a 601 HD project and am
> curious about the "machined" riveter heads required by
> Zenith. Am I over-simplifying this, or can't I just
> take a round grinding stone on my Dremel and "machine"
> 'em myself?
>
> I know they're supposed to be ground to the same
> diameter as the rivet head. Is there another way that
> people are doing this, or is it something I should buy
> from ZAC?
>
> Thanks in advance for the help.
>
> Debo Cox
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Transceiver Headsets |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
Try Sporty's headset wizard to narrow you choices.
http://www.sportys.com/terryc/headset1.cfm?trackingId=700
I love my Lightspeed twenty3g's. Aside from the noise reduction their most
important feature to me is auto-shutoff. I always forget to turn my headset
off at the end of a flight.
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=19&Product_ID=6451 although it
may be cheaper from other vendors.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Transceiver Headsets
Dear Thread Friends, though my XL with 3300 Jab is a pretty quite flying toy
both my head sets are over 15 years old and mostly bummed out. Thought I
would buy my sweet wife a new one (and one for me to) so that when I get the
remainder of these dammed 40 hours flown off she will have nice new headset
to use to fly with me. Problem is there are hundreds of headsets available
at all different costs with all different kinds of "bells and whistles"
options. What I want is a headset that also has a features that negates
noise and is stereo for my tunes and costs around $400. Anybody got a
suggestion that gets close?
Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Machined" Riveter Heads |
For a short article on the easy way to form puller heads using Dremel
tool, go to the archives for a short article I offered. It is message
#11121 or use the search word: "gottem" and it is the only message that
will come up.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Machined" Riveter Heads
>
> Debo,
>
> A Dremel is exactly what I used. It may take about 30 minutes, but is
> definitely doable. You may wish to shape your grinding stone ahead of
time
> as they are usually a little to pointed to start with. I used plenty of
oil
> while grinding, too. You can use a rivet to check the grind and be sure
to
> stop grinding before you have surpassed the diameter if the rivet. If you
do
> grind too deep, just flatten the face of the head a little.
>
> Good luck,
> Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transceiver Headsets T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disable... |
Craig, thanks for the headset info, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | victor verdev <vjvus(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure gauge |
What range should A fuel pressure gauge have for my
601XL; installing Lycoming 0-235. 0-15 psi.,or 0-30
psi.? thanks
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transceiver Headsets |
Larry, as one of the millions of fat old guys over 50 that the ears grow hair
so thick I'm not sure the 'in ear' option headset wouldn't drive me crazy,
Thanks, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "royt.or(at)netzero.com" <royt.or(at)netzero.com> |
Regarding Facet fuel pump orientation Larry wrote: "No, not as long as you got
the in and out right."
The expert source believes orentation DOES matter. From http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/pages/frame_src/ttips_frmsrc.html:
"Generally speaking, fuel pumps push fuel better than they draw fuel. The inlet
side of the pump should be no higher than 12" above the bottom of the fuel tank
to assure the ability of the pump to self prime. Fuel Pump models with a check
valve are available for hight lift applications. The pump should be mounted
with the outlet elevated above the inlet to assist with priming ability and
also helps purge the system of air. Additionally select a location away from excessive
heat sources."
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
479hrs, 581 landings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Machined" Riveter Heads |
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
I tried using a drill bit to shape my riveter heads but the heads were
harder than the drill bit. So I just chucked the riveter head in my drill
motor, put the drill motor in the vice, locked down the trigger and used my
dremel with a small grinding stone to shape the cavity in the riveter head.
Grind a bit, pull a couple test rivets, grind a bit more. It took about 15
minutes to get it just right.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm just getting started with a 601 HD project and am
> curious about the "machined" riveter heads required by
> Zenith. Am I over-simplifying this, or can't I just
> take a round grinding stone on my Dremel and "machine"
> 'em myself?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Machined" Riveter Heads |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Debo Cox" <sky_ranger161(at)yahoo.com>
From:contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters"@roxy.matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: "Machined" Riveter Heads
Debo-
I haven't worn the jaws of the Zenith riveter out yet (It's coming
sooner or later) but I did break the big spring that keeps the handles open.
Couldn't find a spring anywhere- finally got a suitable replacement from
McMaster-Carr. I still can't sit down from the shipping charge. $2.07 for
the spring, and $8.93 for shipping!! Still, better than $50.
When my puller finally craps out, I'll do what Larry Mac suggests, but
with my drill press. Put a little block of wood under the new anvil to
square it up, then clamp the anvil on it's flats to keep from buggering up
the threads. Leave the vise loose.
Chuck a drill bit the size of the anvil hole and run it through the hole
in the anvil, moving the vise until there's no pressure against the bit.
Then, cut the recess with a ball mill.
Just a suggestion- whatever works for you!
Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco bearings. |
Basically not, but some imported Asian bearings have a "unkown" brand name...
In fact, not all the Asian brands bearings are of bad quality, some are competetitive
quality, just they cost less, given their lower production costs...
mainly in labor.
To change your set of bearings is not expensive, If you change them (no AP costs),
This size of bearings can be found in any auto parts store,.. Just need
to be of the same "nunber" or his equivalent, This number indicates the sizes
and type... Just choose a known USA brand with the same number, in case you
have dought...
Remember Aviation doesnt like the "could work" expression. "Completly sure"
is the only way to go.
I have first hand experience with bearings, because I have used and select my bearings
from all brands (Local, USA or Asian) in my Food Carts.. All work at
walk - push speeds prefectly... :-) but eventualy some even had failed at
this speeds and weights!!
Saludos
Gary Gower
Rob Norris wrote:
Is there any way to tell the poor quality bearings from the good ones by inspection?
The original bearings in my wheels (sold to me through Zenith in 1998)
were Chinese-made and of poor quality, and have been problematic for the
new owners of Matco - new, that is, since they bought the company in
2000. I was mistaken in my earlier note saying that these should have
been tapered roller bearings. According to George Happ at Matco, they
were always ball bearings, and that's what my new bearings are as well.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Machined" Riveter Heads |
I used hardware inexpensive POP rivets in the tests, Once satified, I pulled
one A4 rivet, was perfect... Same with the A5's.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Bryan Martin wrote:
I tried using a drill bit to shape my riveter heads but the heads were
harder than the drill bit. So I just chucked the riveter head in my drill
motor, put the drill motor in the vice, locked down the trigger and used my
dremel with a small grinding stone to shape the cavity in the riveter head.
Grind a bit, pull a couple test rivets, grind a bit more. It took about 15
minutes to get it just right.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm just getting started with a 601 HD project and am
> curious about the "machined" riveter heads required by
> Zenith. Am I over-simplifying this, or can't I just
> take a round grinding stone on my Dremel and "machine"
> 'em myself?
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Hartl" <paulhartl(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | N414PZ landing incident and Matco bearings follow-up |
Zenith list,
My actions may have been the primary cause of failure in my right main
wheel bearing 10 days ago. Ron Lee from this list pointed out that the
problem could have been over-tightening of the ball bearings, so I
checked my left main wheel - the one that had not failed and is not yet
replaced - and it was indeed too tight. I could back off the pressure
substantially and still have no play, so I did, and it now turns more
freely.
One of the problems in figuring this out is that I mounted the mains 2
years ago, and I can't remember what the heck I did then. I'm sure I
read the instructions - which depicted them as containing roller
bearings, and need more tightening than ball bearings, but I don't
remember a thing about it. Definitely a case of getting old and losing
it, I guess.
Anyway, the real culprit may well be me (with a little assistance from
incorrect drawings), and not the Chinese bearings. However, George at
the new Matco says they have had problems from others with the Chinese
bearings supplied by their predecessors, so maybe that's part of the
problem, too. Who knows?
If any are still interested in changing out their present bearings, give
Matco a call at (801) 486-7574 and you will find them very helpful
people. They charged me $7.50 a bearing, so the whole set of six would
be $45.
Lastly, let me apologize if I have made anyone worry unduly about their
wheels! I have been reticent to contribute much in the past, because I
don't feel all that knowledgeable, but I thought I should write about
this incident.
Thanks for the helpful advice - and patience!
-Paul
Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601HDS/Jabiru 3300A, 29.2 hrs, 40 landings
Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: www.members.cox.net/paulhartl
Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tinerj(at)tinerj.com" <tinerj(at)tinerj.com> |
| Subject: | Transceiver Headsets |
I reviwed info about the several types and listed the properties to
consider:
passive noise canceling
active noise canceling
reliability and durability
style
comfort
whether manufacturer will repair and stand behind the product
cost
I then decided which was the most important to me. Because I have a slight
hearing loss, I decided that passive and active noise canceling should be
the most important. I chose Lightspeed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transceiver Headsets |
Thanks fellows, I think I will good with the Lightspeed set as well, seems
like it has what I want and need at a price I can reach, Thanks again for the
advise. Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transceiver Headsets |
Bill-
Just saw an add in the GA News for new lightspeed for $229 with ANR.
Check out
www.LightSspeedIndustrial.com
George May
601XL 912S
>From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transceiver Headsets
>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:08 EDT
>
>
>Thanks fellows, I think I will good with the Lightspeed set as well, seems
>like it has what I want and need at a price I can reach, Thanks again for
>the
>advise. Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I have been trying for a while to figure out a way to get the hobbs running
automatically at "engine start" without having to install an oil pressure
switch with the pressure sensor. I would have to install a Tee but the brackets
for the radiator are in the way. I just happend to be browsing the entries on
the aeroelectric list and found this post from Gerry Holland. I am going to
use this, I thought for some here it might be useful:
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
Bob Hi!
I'm using a device called Power Genie to supply start and stop Voltage to
Hobbs Meter. About to start my Rotax Engine. OK?
Find it at:
_http://www.powergenie.central5.com/_ (http://www.powergenie.central5.com/)
Regards
Gerry
____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Moore" <pmoore505(at)msn.com> |
There's an even cheaper and easier way. Here's the link
http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part33.pdf
Go to page 3, at the top of the page where it discusses "Full Wave Bridge
Rectifier". I've used this method with my 503 Rotax with a Hobbs for several
years and it is foolproof, reliable, and accurate. Around $2 from Radio
Shack. As I recall, the part number 276-1171 has been superseded but the new
part number is standard stock.
Paul
XL - 0200
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RURUNY(at)aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Hobbs Install
I have been trying for a while to figure out a way to get the hobbs running
automatically at "engine start" without having to install an oil pressure
switch with the pressure sensor. I would have to install a Tee but the
brackets for the radiator are in the way. I just happend to be browsing the
entries on the aeroelectric list and found this post from Gerry Holland. I
am going to use this, I thought for some here it might be useful:
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
Bob Hi!
I'm using a device called Power Genie to supply start and stop Voltage to
Hobbs Meter. About to start my Rotax Engine. OK?
Find it at:
_http://www.powergenie.central5.com/_ (http://www.powergenie.central5.com/)
Regards
Gerry
____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Transceiver Headsets |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
The link didn't work for me. I think you have an extra "s" in there. This
works:
http://www.lightspeedindustrial.com/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of george may
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transceiver Headsets
Bill-
Just saw an add in the GA News for new lightspeed for $229 with ANR.
Check out
www.LightSspeedIndustrial.com
George May
601XL 912S
>From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transceiver Headsets
>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:34:08 EDT
>
>
>Thanks fellows, I think I will good with the Lightspeed set as well,
>seems like it has what I want and need at a price I can reach, Thanks
>again for the advise. Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
Hi Folks the two address above are maps that we can all enter our
location in. I have matched them to the www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com
website and would like to invite all high wing and low wing people to
sign up and show where you are!! This is real cool and would be a
valuable tool to newbies.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
10/25/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Harris (Pumpkin Man)" <pumpkin_man(at)autoinsanity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
That's pretty cool!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hobbs Install
>
> http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
>
> http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
>
> Hi Folks the two address above are maps that we can all enter our
> location in. I have matched them to the www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com
> website and would like to invite all high wing and low wing people to
> sign up and show where you are!! This is real cool and would be a
> valuable tool to newbies.
>
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
> --
> 10/25/2005
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Builder location map |
Guys so far 18 people in total have signed up and have placed a flag on
the map. This is truly a great tool for us!! It is too cool. Lets find
out where the concentration of Zenith owners are!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
10/25/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
OK, I'm in - Thanks Mark! Very nice! I've got Nebraska all to myself. Let's
get some more tags on the map.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket"
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hobbs Install
>
> http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
>
> http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hobbs Install |
Also, you should check with Kuntzleman Electronics at the link below.
kestrobes.com
They manufacture and sell a hotbox system for ultralight and sport aircraft that
assures that the Hobbs doesn't run until the engine does. It is done electronically
but don't ask me to explain how.... ask Kuntzleman. The owner is a very
helpful and easy guy to work with and he can probably rig an electrical circuit
that would do the job without an oil pressure activated switch. For those
who are interested, he can likely produce a wiring package for your plane that
is nearly "plug and play" .
Ed
>
> From: RURUNY(at)aol.com
> Date: 2005/10/25 Tue PM 08:54:43 EDT
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Hobbs Install
>
>
> I have been trying for a while to figure out a way to get the hobbs running
> automatically at "engine start" without having to install an oil pressure
> switch with the pressure sensor. I would have to install a Tee but the brackets
> for the radiator are in the way. I just happend to be browsing the entries on
> the aeroelectric list and found this post from Gerry Holland. I am going to
> use this, I thought for some here it might be useful:
>
> Brian Unruh
> Long Island, NY
>
> Bob Hi!
>
> I'm using a device called Power Genie to supply start and stop Voltage to
> Hobbs Meter. About to start my Rotax Engine. OK?
>
> Find it at:
>
> _http://www.powergenie.central5.com/_ (http://www.powergenie.central5.com/)
>
> Regards
>
> Gerry
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Lilja <planes_by_ken(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure gauge |
For float cabs, 0 - 15 PSI is fine. operating max pressure is about 4
-6 PSI.
Ken Lilja
victor verdev wrote:
>
>What range should A fuel pressure gauge have for my
>601XL; installing Lycoming 0-235. 0-15 psi.,or 0-30
>psi.? thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "neitzel" <n963wb(at)frontiernet.net> |
Greetings all
Someone mentioned the use of a "hot box" for wiring. I installed a hot box in
my Kolb Mark III with a 582 and found it much more complicated to hook into the
system than running separate wiring. The wiring included with the EIS was top
drawer but would not consider another hot box.
Appreciated the input on the various devices to activate the Hobbs. Have a ways
to go before I think about wiring but had thoughts about how I was going to
drive the hour meter.
Dick Neitzel
701 Jabiru 2200
10% done and having a ball
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rspritchard(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
Thank you Mark this is such a fun way to see builders progress.
Roger Nashua, NH
-============================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
> Me too, thanks Mark. The Savannah pictured there
> was painted with Rustoleum with a low pressure
> system. Its a very good paint job for the money.
> Bob Sceppa
--- N5SL wrote:
>
>
> OK, I'm in - Thanks Mark! Very nice! I've got
> Nebraska all to myself. Let's get some more tags on
> the map.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zodie Rocket"
> To: ; <701builders(at)yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hobbs Install
>
>
> >
> > http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
> >
> > http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ricardo Nascimento <rmsk(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
Hey Mark! Hello everybody!
I tried entering me and Andre, for Fort McMurray, but the site keeps
telling me that
Fort McMurray is and invalid city. That's a shot below the belt, eh? :)
We'll have to shut the valve
off on the pipeline I think. lol
Anyway, kidding aside, I've tried it a few times and get the same
result.
Is there a way to validate our city?
Thanks
Ricardo
On Wednesday, October 26, 2005, at 05:23 AM, Zodie Rocket wrote:
>
> Guys so far 18 people in total have signed up and have placed a flag on
> the map. This is truly a great tool for us!! It is too cool. Lets find
> out where the concentration of Zenith owners are!
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>
> --
> 10/25/2005
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Builder location map |
It's not a perfect map and is a bit lack in the Canadian towns. You may
have noticed that I seem to live in Guelph now instead of Alma. IT is
the closest place the map system would accept as my home, even though it
is 30 min away it is still close enough.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo
Nascimento
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Builder location map
Hey Mark! Hello everybody!
I tried entering me and Andre, for Fort McMurray, but the site keeps
telling me that
Fort McMurray is and invalid city. That's a shot below the belt, eh? :)
We'll have to shut the valve
off on the pipeline I think. lol
Anyway, kidding aside, I've tried it a few times and get the same
result.
Is there a way to validate our city?
Thanks
Ricardo
On Wednesday, October 26, 2005, at 05:23 AM, Zodie Rocket wrote:
>
> Guys so far 18 people in total have signed up and have placed a flag
on
> the map. This is truly a great tool for us!! It is too cool. Lets find
> out where the concentration of Zenith owners are!
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>
> --
> 10/25/2005
>
>
--
10/25/2005
--
10/25/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
> Ricardo, all I did was entered my zip code and that
> took care of mine. Try that...B. Sceppa
--- Ricardo Nascimento wrote:
> Nascimento
>
> Hey Mark! Hello everybody!
>
> I tried entering me and Andre, for Fort McMurray,
> but the site keeps
> telling me that
> Fort McMurray is and invalid city. That's a shot
> below the belt, eh? :)
> We'll have to shut the valve
> off on the pipeline I think. lol
> Anyway, kidding aside, I've tried it a few times and
> get the same
> result.
> Is there a way to validate our city?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ricardo
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2005, at 05:23 AM, Zodie
> Rocket wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Guys so far 18 people in total have signed up and
> have placed a flag on
> > the map. This is truly a great tool for us!! It is
> too cool. Lets find
> > out where the concentration of Zenith owners are!
> >
> > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> > Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> > President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> > www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > 10/25/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick R <n701rr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Mark Evans A ~~ Is Born |
Hi Folks,
You all know Mark Evans....??
His DVDs are or will be available soon:
http://www.markevans.co.uk/mark-evans-online-shop-dvds.php
Guess I am plugging him...his Plane is Born series is the one that pushed me over
into the 701 cult.
Rick
N701RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
Mark, What a great idea. I seem to representing Kansas. I know there are
some others out there.
Cheers
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hobbs Install
>
> http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
>
> http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
>
> Hi Folks the two address above are maps that we can all enter our
> location in. I have matched them to the www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com
> website and would like to invite all high wing and low wing people to
> sign up and show where you are!! This is real cool and would be a
> valuable tool to newbies.
>
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Harris (Pumpkin Man)" <pumpkin_man(at)autoinsanity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
Zodie, you should put those links in your sig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Builder location map |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Builder location map
>
I posted my info, but I can't view the page very well -- seems that none of
my older browsers can digest the javascript stuff.
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842(at)cox.net> |
Finally found the number for the Harbor Freight rivet puller. They can't
find a thing without the numbers.
167-5VGA air hydraulic riveter Current on line cost is 24.99.
Someone mentioned that there is a cheaper substitute for Proseal. Name,
source and price?
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
Hi Chaps
I've found that many websites don't work properly with one or another of
the typical browsers. I normally use Netscape, but it didn't like the
701 map program so I copy/pasted the address into my Internet Explorer
and it worked fine.
Hal
ThePlaneFolks.Net
Phoenix
Super STOL CH701-JAB3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
This is how I did it on the Jab 3000A, which came with two pick-ups on its
VDO oil pressure sender.
The pickup labled WK on the VDO sender stands for warning contact, aka
"idiot light" pickup. This contact is normally closed with no oil pressure
and opens at about 8 psi.
I installed a Radio Shcck PN 275-248 relay "velcroed" on the top of the
Hobbs (the relay is very small and rated for 10A at 24V). I wired the VDO
WK terminal to the NO coil pick up of the relay and the other relay coil
pickup wired to the master bus for its 12V pickup when the master is turned
on. This 12V wire is also spliced to feed into the COM of the relay. I then
wired the relay such that a wire from the NO on the relay fed to the + lead
of a red 12 V 1/4 in dia Radio Shack LED installed on the panel (the - lead
of the LED goes to ground). This LED lights up with the master switch ON
when there is zero or less than about 8 psi pressure. Another wire feeds
into the + of the Hobbs from the NC pickup of the relay. Another wire goes
from the - of the Hobbs to ground.
When there is Oil Press, the WK contact of the VDO opens and then the relay
switches the voltage/current to the Hobbs.
In summary. Zero or less than about 8 psi gives "idiot light" on panel.
On engine start, "idiot light" goes out (unless you have a problem) and
Hobbs starts running.\
The relay and LED are very inexpensive. If you are unsure how to wire
them, study the diagram on the relay package, wire everything up on the
bench, and play with the combination.
Tony Graziano, Buchanan, Tn
Zodiac 601XL N493TG
Just finished the fun of Phase I testing.
> > From: RURUNY(at)aol.com
> > Date: 2005/10/25 Tue PM 08:54:43 EDT
> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Hobbs Install
> >
> >
> > I have been trying for a while to figure out a way to get the hobbs
running
>
> > automatically at "engine start" without having to install an oil
pressure
> > switch with the pressure sensor. I would have to install a Tee but the
brackets
>
> > for the radiator are in the way. I just happend to be browsing the
entries on
>
> > the aeroelectric list and found this post from Gerry Holland. I am
going to
>
> > use this, I thought for some here it might be useful:
> >
> > Brian Unruh
> > Long Island, NY
> >
> > Bob Hi!
> >
> > I'm using a device called Power Genie to supply start and stop Voltage
to
> > Hobbs Meter. About to start my Rotax Engine. OK?
> >
> > Find it at:
> >
> > _http://www.powergenie.central5.com/_
(http://www.powergenie.central5.com/)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gerry
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: riveter head machining |
Check the archives. I have posted a couple of time on
this over the last couple of years.
I agree that the price of the heads from ZAC are
nothing in the grand scheme of things, but if you are
looking to get started now...
Heat the heads up with a propane torch until they
are blue. Dimple the heads with an appropriate sized
drill bit for the rivet head size. Smooth out with a
dremel. Pull some test rivets and tweak. -Takes
about 10 minutes per head.
Here is a link to the pneumatic riveter someone
else mentioned. It is a steal. Mine set every rivet
in my plane, and is still going strong.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search
R/
Brandon Tucker
Oceanside Ca.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Craze" <garycraze(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Builder map for 801 ? |
I know there a fewer of us, but how about a map for 801's?
tnx!
Gary
CH801 Houston, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: riveter head machining |
Link didn't work for me. Try:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=167
> ..snip..
>
> Here is a link to the pneumatic riveter someone
> else mentioned. It is a steal. Mine set every rivet
> in my plane, and is still going strong.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search
>
> R/
>
> Brandon Tucker
> Oceanside Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet puller |
>Someone mentioned that there is a cheaper substitute for Proseal. Name,
>source and price?
>
>Bob, Wichita
I generally don't recommend aircraft spruce but they have it.,09-3850 and 09-38510.
LOW&SLOW John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder location mapBuilder location mapHobbs Install |
| From: | Larry Landucci <lllanducci(at)tds.net> |
Hi,
Is there going to be a corresponding map site for 801 owners, or should
these be included in the 701 site?
Larry Landucci -- N801LL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Craze" <garycraze(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Builder Map for Zenith CH801 now online |
Ok, the builder map for CH801 builders in now online.
Same address format as the 601 and 701 maps...
http://www.frappr.com/zenith801
Regards!
Gary
CH801 N801GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | How about the CH640 map? |
How about us CH640 guys (& gals?)
Scott & ERic-
CH-640
Asheville, NC
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gary Craze" <garycraze(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Builder Map for Zenith CH801 now online
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:23:38 -0500
Ok, the builder map for CH801 builders in now online.
Same address format as the 601 and 701 maps...
http://www.frappr.com/zenith801
Regards!
Gary
CH801 N801GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet puller |
I saw this mentioned in the archives for a substitute for Proseal.
It is Flamemaster, available from Van's website. Here is a link:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1130445406-472-657&browse=misc&product=proseal
>
> Someone mentioned that there is a cheaper substitute for Proseal. Name,
> source and price?
>
> Bob, Wichita
>
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit ordered and waiting!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Builder map for 801 ? |
Builders and flyers the Zenith 701/801 STOL This is right off the
website, a few of the 801 builders are on the map, same as 640/
ch200/300 are on the 601 map. I may add an 801 map when www.ch801.com is
up and running ( hoping for April / May timeframe)
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Craze
Subject: [SPAM] Zenith-List: Builder map for 801 ?
I know there a fewer of us, but how about a map for 801's?
tnx!
Gary
CH801 Houston, TX
--
10/27/2005
--
10/27/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet puller |
Another source for Flamemaster, with lower prices than Van's, is Sacramento
Sky Ranch. I've done business with them and they have been excellent to
work with.
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/Sacramento_Sky_Ranch_Sealants_295.html
Look down the page a bit for Tank Sealant - clicking the Faq button on the
item(s) will show that it is Flamemaster.
>
> I saw this mentioned in the archives for a substitute for Proseal.
>
> It is Flamemaster, available from Van's website. Here is a link:
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1130445406-472-657&browse=misc&product=proseal
>
>>
>> Someone mentioned that there is a cheaper substitute for Proseal. Name,
>> source and price?
>>
>> Bob, Wichita
>>
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit ordered and waiting!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ricardo Nascimento <rmsk(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder location map |
Thanks for the suggestion Bob but we don't have that on the canadian
version of the sign up, and our postal codes aren't recognized.
What I'm going to have to do until Fort McMurray is valid is put us
down as Edmonton builders and
in the shout out say that we're actually in Fort McMurray, 300 miles or
445 kilometers north of Edmonton, about a five hour
drive until we get our 701 up in the air.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2005, at 05:57 PM, ROBERT SCEPPA wrote:
>
>> Ricardo, all I did was entered my zip code and that
>> took care of mine. Try that...B. Sceppa
>
> --- Ricardo Nascimento wrote:
>
>> Nascimento
>>
>> Hey Mark! Hello everybody!
>>
>> I tried entering me and Andre, for Fort McMurray,
>> but the site keeps
>> telling me that
>> Fort McMurray is and invalid city. That's a shot
>> below the belt, eh? :)
>> We'll have to shut the valve
>> off on the pipeline I think. lol
>> Anyway, kidding aside, I've tried it a few times and
>> get the same
>> result.
>> Is there a way to validate our city?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ricardo
>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2005, at 05:23 AM, Zodie
>> Rocket wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Guys so far 18 people in total have signed up and
>> have placed a flag on
>>> the map. This is truly a great tool for us!! It is
>> too cool. Lets find
>>> out where the concentration of Zenith owners are!
>>>
>>> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
>>> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
>>> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
>>> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 10/25/2005
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <PAULROD36(at)msn.com> |
Got a question----- After cutting 6C-1-4, the forward top skin, according to the
drawings, it doesn't look like it will fit. The sides of the top skin are
parallel, and the forward fuselage tapers from the instrument panel bulkhead to
the firewall. The result is that I am short about 1/4 inch at the sides of the
instrument panel, and way over (side to side) at the firewall. Has anybody
else had a problem with this? I feel like I need to re-cut the skin to a taper
from front to back. Any advice will be appreciated.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
stumbling through the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)ciaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 Question |
At 10:54 PM 10/27/2005, you wrote:
>
>Got a question----- After cutting 6C-1-4,
I cut mine to the drawings quite a while back but I remember it
did not fit. It was too short side to side.
Jim Pollard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan(at)entry.co.za> |
| Subject: | Flap position indicator |
Hi all listers,
Is there anyone out there that has connected a Ray Allen Flap indicator to a
Zodiac XL ?
I assumed it would be linear, i.e. the distance travelled by the position
detector, and the flap push rod, but alas this is not so, so I need to gear
it in some clever way.
The distance (Linear) travelled by the flap push riod is more than the
position sensor.
Anyone done this, please let me know how, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thnx
Jonathan Starke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap position indicator |
Jon, mine came with the kit, but I had to buy a position sensor device to
actuate the motor to the flap. Frankly, you really don't need a gauge for the
flap. You just peek out the side and you can see it quicker than you can find it
on the instrument panel. I think we only included the gauge because it was
required to complete the wiring sequence. FWIW, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Flap position indicator |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
I doubt you would call this clever but a lever can either increase or
decrease the distance moved depending on where you placed the pivot.
On the other hand Ray Allen sells sensors with varying amounts of travel -
.5"(13 mm), .7"(18 mm) and 1.2"(30 mm). But as I recall from my flap motor
even the longest doesn't move far enough.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Starke
Subject: Zenith-List: Flap position indicator
-->
Hi all listers,
Is there anyone out there that has connected a Ray Allen Flap indicator to a
Zodiac XL ?
I assumed it would be linear, i.e. the distance travelled by the position
detector, and the flap push rod, but alas this is not so, so I need to gear
it in some clever way.
The distance (Linear) travelled by the flap push riod is more than the
position sensor.
Anyone done this, please let me know how, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thnx
Jonathan Starke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john H" <professor71(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | winter flying and coolant temps |
Hi List
I have a 601HD 912 with the belly radiator. Since the weather is getting
cold here I was wondering how do you all go about blocking off the air flow
to the radiator to increase your cht temps. I'm used to seeing 190-200 in
the heat of the summer, but now at 45 degrees I'm only getting 173 degrees.
I would like to get the temps back up to at least 190. I have a mesh screen
covering the bottom of the radiator and have slid a piece of cardboard
between the screen and the bottom of the rad. I have about 2/3 of the
radiator covered and I'm still only able to get 173 degrees. Anyone out
there have any simple tricks to increase your cht temps in the winter with
this set up.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap position indicator |
What I have done in the past is to connect the sensor arm to the flap
control arm closer to the centerline of the flap control tube.
In-other-words, if the flap actuator moves, say 4" linear for full travel,
that is at the top of the flap control arm. At the centerline of the flap
control tube it moves 0" linear for full travel. Half way up the flap
control arm is 2" linear, 1/4 of the way up the arm is 1" linear, etc.
Somewhere along that arm the linear distance moved is the same distance as
the sensor travel.
Draw a horizontal line on a piece of paper, then draw another line thru it
at the same angle as full flaps. Now measure along those lines until the
distance between them equals the sensor travel. The distance from where
those lines intersect to the point where you measured to is the distance up
from the flap control tube centerline where you need to attach the sensor.
The sensor requires no measurable force to move it so, I have used a stiff
wire, length as necessary, with bends on each end to pass thru a small hole
drilled in the flap control arm and the hole in the sensor arm. A small
threaded rod with a clevis on each end works very nice too.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit ordered and waiting!
>
> I doubt you would call this clever but a lever can either increase or
> decrease the distance moved depending on where you placed the pivot.
>
> On the other hand Ray Allen sells sensors with varying amounts of travel -
> .5"(13 mm), .7"(18 mm) and 1.2"(30 mm). But as I recall from my flap motor
> even the longest doesn't move far enough.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
> Hi all listers,
>
> Is there anyone out there that has connected a Ray Allen Flap indicator to
> a
> Zodiac XL ?
>
> I assumed it would be linear, i.e. the distance travelled by the position
> detector, and the flap push rod, but alas this is not so, so I need to
> gear
> it in some clever way.
> The distance (Linear) travelled by the flap push riod is more than the
> position sensor.
>
> Anyone done this, please let me know how, it would be greatly appreciated.
> Thnx
> Jonathan Starke
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 601 XL Jabiru Maintenance Question. |
Dear Thread Builder & Flying Friends, the manual on the 3300 says to change
the oil at 25 hours and to use the Shell 100 (50 wt.) or use the Shell 80 (40
wt.) for cold weather. The question is what is cold weather? When I purchased
the engine from Pete he was located in Wisconsin. Does it mean cold weather
in Wisconsin, Australia, or in Middle Georgia? Is there a general margin of
temperature range to determine whether the thinner oil is called for? You all
know there are only two barbed wire fences between Wisconsin and the North Pole
so "cold weather" can really mean something very different depending on where
your at. Hope to hear for someone, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Crook" <ronflys701(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | winter flying and coolant temps |
Hello John Im in Toronto Canada with an 80 hp 912 and we normally around
here use furnace tape and in my situation I have the belly rad and at times
-20-30 I hav eto tape it right off totally ..Useally I have the oil cooler
shut right off first and it rises the temps to around 200 on cruise ....U
know the silver metal tape used around the joints on furnace ductwork...HOPE
this helps a bit ....Ron
>From: "john H" <professor71(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: winter flying and coolant temps
>Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:10:35 -0400
>
>
>Hi List
>I have a 601HD 912 with the belly radiator. Since the weather is getting
>cold here I was wondering how do you all go about blocking off the air flow
>to the radiator to increase your cht temps. I'm used to seeing 190-200 in
>the heat of the summer, but now at 45 degrees I'm only getting 173 degrees.
>I would like to get the temps back up to at least 190. I have a mesh screen
>covering the bottom of the radiator and have slid a piece of cardboard
>between the screen and the bottom of the rad. I have about 2/3 of the
>radiator covered and I'm still only able to get 173 degrees. Anyone out
>there have any simple tricks to increase your cht temps in the winter with
>this set up.
>Thanks
>John
>
>
Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft SmartScreen
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: winter flying and coolant temps |
John, I'm up in the Toronto area and temps here are floating around
7C or 45F for those on the old system.
My oil today was at 210F, CHTs were no more than 230F. Any colder and
I'll have to block off the oil rad a bit (I never thought I would say
this since I had high temps for a while during the heat wave in the
summer!). Duct tape or aluminum tape works fine to block it off.
My plane seems to be running better than ever now that I have a
proper exhaust from ZAC. The heavier air density recently has helped
a lot too. I could not be happier!!
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 28, 2005, at 1:10 PM, john H wrote:
>
> Hi List
> I have a 601HD 912 with the belly radiator. Since the weather is
> getting
> cold here I was wondering how do you all go about blocking off the
> air flow
> to the radiator to increase your cht temps. I'm used to seeing
> 190-200 in
> the heat of the summer, but now at 45 degrees I'm only getting 173
> degrees.
> I would like to get the temps back up to at least 190. I have a
> mesh screen
> covering the bottom of the radiator and have slid a piece of cardboard
> between the screen and the bottom of the rad. I have about 2/3 of the
> radiator covered and I'm still only able to get 173 degrees. Anyone
> out
> there have any simple tricks to increase your cht temps in the
> winter with
> this set up.
> Thanks
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | continental engine |
Anyone looking for a continental 0-200 go on line to avbooking.com, click usa,
then parts for sale,
then search for engines. Thanks Robert Tichy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <garyk2(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: winter flying and coolant temps |
my Pelican came with a fiberglass cover that screws in place and completely
covers the rad. you could probably make a manually sliding vent that would
open/cover some holes or slots to make it adjustable. wouldn't take many
flights to figure out how much open or closed to make it at what temps.
gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "john H" <professor71(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: winter flying and coolant temps
>
> Hi List
> I have a 601HD 912 with the belly radiator. Since the weather is getting
> cold here I was wondering how do you all go about blocking off the air
> flow
> to the radiator to increase your cht temps. I'm used to seeing 190-200 in
> the heat of the summer, but now at 45 degrees I'm only getting 173
> degrees.
> I would like to get the temps back up to at least 190. I have a mesh
> screen
> covering the bottom of the radiator and have slid a piece of cardboard
> between the screen and the bottom of the rad. I have about 2/3 of the
> radiator covered and I'm still only able to get 173 degrees. Anyone out
> there have any simple tricks to increase your cht temps in the winter with
> this set up.
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: winter flying and coolant temps |
Do it the factory way. Wrap duct tape to cover part of the core. Suggest
covering !/4 of the core for a start. That's how Chris was doing it in 1992
when I visited the factory in Canada.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "john H" <professor71(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: winter flying and coolant temps
>
> Hi List
> I have a 601HD 912 with the belly radiator. Since the weather is getting
> cold here I was wondering how do you all go about blocking off the air
> flow
> to the radiator to increase your cht temps. I'm used to seeing 190-200 in
> the heat of the summer, but now at 45 degrees I'm only getting 173
> degrees.
> I would like to get the temps back up to at least 190. I have a mesh
> screen
> covering the bottom of the radiator and have slid a piece of cardboard
> between the screen and the bottom of the rad. I have about 2/3 of the
> radiator covered and I'm still only able to get 173 degrees. Anyone out
> there have any simple tricks to increase your cht temps in the winter with
> this set up.
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spring Landing gear for HD/HDS |
Has anyone modified their 601HD/HDS with spring gear? I've seen photos of
an HD that had spring gear. I think his name is Frank Darby and not sure
where he is at. Does anyone have his new email address?
Since our landing incident where the main landing tube weld broke, we used a
crane to lift the airplane and put back on the ramp. Had left wheel welded
back on tube so we could roll and load the plane onto a flat bed truck and
haul home. I will have to replace all gear do to the skidding sideways off the
runway and causing the wheel forks to bend.
So after seeing the photos of the spring gear on the 601HD, I would like to
talk to him, and maybe think about going that route myself. Also have to
replace the the complete tail section which was damaged when wheel flew back and
hit tail. Anyone know of a completed tail section that may be for sale?
Jim Olson
Murphy, NC
CH601HDS N56BJ 288 hrs
email: _phfd400(at)aol.com_ (mailto:phfd400(at)aol.com)
http://hometown.aol.com/phfd400/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spring Landing gear for HD/HDS |
*/Jim,
You'd find him on the archives of the matronics page, address was then
fdarby(at)charter.net
I will send pictures your address because I saved them back to study some time
ago
and what he did is interesting, if not just a little over done. Could reduce the
structural
weight by about half if you were serious about doing this.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
/*
PHFD400(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Has anyone modified their 601HD/HDS with spring gear? I've seen photos of
>an HD that had spring gear. I think his name is Frank Darby and not sure
>where he is at. Does anyone have his new email address?
>
>Since our landing incident where the main landing tube weld broke, we used a
>crane to lift the airplane and put back on the ramp. Had left wheel welded
>back on tube so we could roll and load the plane onto a flat bed truck and
>haul home. I will have to replace all gear do to the skidding sideways off the
>runway and causing the wheel forks to bend.
>
>So after seeing the photos of the spring gear on the 601HD, I would like to
>talk to him, and maybe think about going that route myself. Also have to
>replace the the complete tail section which was damaged when wheel flew back and
>hit tail. Anyone know of a completed tail section that may be for sale?
>
>Jim Olson
>Murphy, NC
>CH601HDS N56BJ 288 hrs
>email: _phfd400(at)aol.com_ (mailto:phfd400(at)aol.com)
>
>http://hometown.aol.com/phfd400/index.html
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Flap position indicator |
Johnathan
I agree with the comments that a position indicator probably is not
needed, however,
I had always planned to have one so I did install a position sensor. I
attached it to
the flap arm with a radio control model clevis and threaded arm. The
position was
determined quantitatively by hooking up the sensor with the LED indicator
and
and finding a position along the arm where zero flaps indicated zero on the
indicator and full flaps
indicated full on the indicator. Once determined, I fabricated a small
bracket to
mount the sensor on.
George May
601XL 912S
>From: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan(at)entry.co.za>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: Flap position indicator
>Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:06:58 +0200
>
>
>Hi all listers,
>
>Is there anyone out there that has connected a Ray Allen Flap indicator to
>a
>Zodiac XL ?
>
>I assumed it would be linear, i.e. the distance travelled by the position
>detector, and the flap push rod, but alas this is not so, so I need to gear
>it in some clever way.
>The distance (Linear) travelled by the flap push riod is more than the
>position sensor.
>
>Anyone done this, please let me know how, it would be greatly appreciated.
>Thnx
>Jonathan Starke
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Wilde" <eagle51(at)ix.netcom.com> |
No one has mentioned using a Tiny Tach for an hour meter. I have had one on my
ultralight for over five years and it works great. It gives your rpm when running
and hours when the engine is shut down, all for about $50.
Dan Wilde
eagle51(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Builders and owners map |
Hi Group, were at 121 people for the Zodiac map and 73 for the STOL map.
The sign up seems to have stopped at the moment. For those of you who
haven't had a chance, then check this out it is a great utility for
seeing where we all are.
STOL Owners and Builders
http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
Zodiac Owners and Builders
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
There are a few thousand of us building and flying the world over and I
do see a few from outside North America which is great. Lets get this
map filled up so that we know where you all are. So Far no one lives in
the Dakotas or Montana and Canada seems to be a vacant no-mans land.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
10/27/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Kirkland" <fdk0154.tx(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spring Landing gear for HD/HDS |
What is the frequency of landing gear failures among the list members? I have
had serious concerns about this landing gear setup. One concern is the horizontal
tube that goes through the gear leg and slides up and down between the aluminum
angles inside the wing. It looks like the tubing just barely sticks out
past the aluminum angle and I wonder if a hard landing would stress the box
enough that the tube could slip back enough to come out from between the angles
and allow the wheel to cant left or right. I've obtained some more tubing to
make longer parts because of this. Just wondering if I'm being unduly concerned.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Seeking more actual XL cruise and climb numbers |
Greetings,
I'm pretty desperately seeking some real world performance numbers for the
XL, particularly with the more powerful engine options. I was looking at
the XL, and the Sonex, and in fact, placed an order for the Sonex about a
month ago. The problem is that I'm quite interested in using a single rotor
Mazda engine, and have come to believe that it's going to be tough to do
with the Sonex. On the other hand, the XL will do it easily, and looks
better too. I also have headroom issues with the Sonex.
Bottom line is that I need to make a final decision fairly soon, to decide
if I want to cancel the Sonex kit order or not. I've read everything I can
in the archives, but can't seem to find many people meeting the factory
numbers. While speed isn't the entire goal here, it would be disappointing
to build a plane that doesn't perform as expected.
Any real world speed or climb numbers will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mikeandlaurie3(at)netzero.net" <mikeandlaurie3(at)netzero.net> |
I went to install my upper fuselage longeron doubler (6B16-4). Failed to notice
plans showing 35mm width on the wide side. Zenair's was 55mm on the wide side
and the photo assembly guide fails to mention trimming to 35mm width first -
my scrap pile grows!
Mike and Laurie in AZ, N445ML, 601XL, WW conversion
I went to install my upper fuselage longeron doubler (6B16-4). Failed to notice
plans showing 35mm width on the wide side. Zenair's was 55mm on the wide side
and the photo assembly guide fails to mention trimming to 35mm width first -
my scrap pile grows!
Mike and Laurie in AZ, N445ML, 601XL, WW conversion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6B16-4 width |
Sometimes it seems like we would be better off without the photo
assembly guide. It certainly should not be depended on to be
accurate regarding actual part design.
It is absolutely necessary to rely on the actual drawings and only
use the photo assembly guide as a general guide.
Paul
XL Wings
do no archive
At 07:26 AM 10/29/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>I went to install my upper fuselage longeron doubler (6B16-4).
>Failed to notice plans showing 35mm width on the wide side. Zenair's
>was 55mm on the wide side and the photo assembly guide fails to
>mention trimming to 35mm width first - my scrap pile grows!
>Mike and Laurie in AZ, N445ML, 601XL, WW conversion
>
>
>I went to install my upper fuselage longeron doubler (6B16-4).
>Failed to notice plans showing 35mm width on the wide side. Zenair's
>was 55mm on the wide side and the photo assembly guide fails to
>mention trimming to 35mm width first - my scrap pile grows!
>
>
>Mike and Laurie in AZ, N445ML, 601XL, WW conversion
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Plans Vs Photo Guide |
Hi Paul,
I agree. I started to veer off couse and use the photo guide too much when installing
the sender units for the fuel tank. The photo guide (mine) showed the senders
on the top of the tank and the plans (although very difficult to find)
showed the sender on the side of the tank. I installed mine on the top and will
now have to live with the prospect of either creating an inspection hole on
the leading edge or removing the rivets for the leading edge if the sender unit
fails.
Oh well, live and learn.
Scott Thatcher
601XL with WW Conversion
<From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
| From: | "John" <jlifer(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you performance
numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph, then just go on
and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general specifications in the last year
or so and the design cruise was dropped from 132 to 124mph. That is about
all you can expect. Another thing you are trying to do is install a different
engine. An awful lot is riding on you getting all of that installation done
properly and making it work for you. The XL is a good plane, but as with any
selection, has its limitations.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
Hi John,
Thanks for the comments. I've built and flown a couple 200 mph RV's (an -8,
and a Mazda rotary powered -3B), so I admit to a certain "need for speed".
At the same time, I hate the medical regulation stuff, and would like to try
a Sport Pilot legal plane. My interest is in getting the most out of the
limitation.
I don't see the cruise speed you quoted. The current Zenith page shows the
following max cruise speeds:
134 mph (912S)
138 mph (Jabiru 3300)
138 mph (O-235)
If I used one of these engines, and only got 120 mph, I wouldn't be happy.
Fortunately, I've heard from a couple sources that the 3300 XL is truly
meeting it's claims, which is good news.
The single rotor Mazda engine I propose will be well proven (or perhaps
disproven ) by the time I'd put it on the XL, since I'm finishing up the
installation of one on a Kolb Slingshot now. HP can well exceed anything
reasonable for an XL, so power won't be an issue.
Cheers,
Rusty (the rotary wacko)
Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you
performance numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph,
then just go on and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general
specifications in the last year or so and the design cruise was dropped from
132 to 124mph. That is about all you can expect. Another thing you are
trying to do is install a different engine. An awful lot is riding on you
getting all of that installation done properly and making it work for you.
The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection, has its limitations. John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Carlson" <a300cpt(at)bellsouth.net> |
Does anyone have any recommendations for paint shops? Any estimates on what
it will cost? Any place east of the great divide would be ok.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Moore" <pmoore505(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring |
2 XL questions for those in the know:
The torque rod for the control yoke has a stop ring on the end just in front
of the front spar carry-through to keep the rod from exiting out the back of
the bearings. It sure seems like there should be a second one to keep it
from moving forward as well but nothing on the plans shows one. There are 4"
to 5" of travel available there, unless the aileron and elevator cable
tension is enough keep it pulled back tight. Did anyone add a second ring
either behind the front bearing or behind the rear one?
On the flap actuator torque rod bearings, there is only one way the big
bearing holes can be positioned in the bearing while honoring the edge
distances, etc. This, along with the position of the rear spar carry-through
that is already mounted across the fuse, fix the position of the exit holes
in the fuse sides. How does one guarantee that this will be the correct
position for mating up with the end of the flap once the wings are mounted?
Seems there is a big chance for error here. Archive search gives one
solution from Dave Barth and Mark Townsend using the wing jig with a scrap
piece of hinge mounted to mark the location on the side skin. Anyone else
come up with any other method?
Also, thanks to all those who responded on the contact info. It worked out
and I have my answer already! What a resource this is!
Paul Moore
XL - 0200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
All-
Anyone have numbers for the Corvair conversion? Can't beat the price!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: accurate performance numbers
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the comments. I've built and flown a couple 200 mph RV's
(an -8,
> and a Mazda rotary powered -3B), so I admit to a certain "need for speed".
> At the same time, I hate the medical regulation stuff, and would like to
try
> a Sport Pilot legal plane. My interest is in getting the most out of the
> limitation.
>
> I don't see the cruise speed you quoted. The current Zenith page shows
the
> following max cruise speeds:
> 134 mph (912S)
> 138 mph (Jabiru 3300)
> 138 mph (O-235)
>
> If I used one of these engines, and only got 120 mph, I wouldn't be happy.
> Fortunately, I've heard from a couple sources that the 3300 XL is truly
> meeting it's claims, which is good news.
>
> The single rotor Mazda engine I propose will be well proven (or perhaps
> disproven ) by the time I'd put it on the XL, since I'm finishing up
the
> installation of one on a Kolb Slingshot now. HP can well exceed anything
> reasonable for an XL, so power won't be an issue.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty (the rotary wacko)
>
>
> Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you
> performance numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph,
> then just go on and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general
> specifications in the last year or so and the design cruise was dropped
from
> 132 to 124mph. That is about all you can expect. Another thing you are
> trying to do is install a different engine. An awful lot is riding on you
> getting all of that installation done properly and making it work for you.
> The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection, has its limitations.
John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
Bob, have you contacted any car paint shops locally to you with
aluminum painting experience?
Some of us decided to tackle the paint ourselfves and came out pretty
good. I get compliments on my garage paint job all the time. I
thought it would be hard but it's not. All of the work is in the prep
of the metal and you can expect a high-price from a shop because of
this. If you do it yourself you can save big $$.
I reckon my paint job was less than $700 in materials (used good
paint). If you want more info there is a really good article on
painting on www.ch601.org that explains pretty much everything you
need to know. If you read that and follow the instructions (which I
did) you'll end up just fine.
My website has lots of pictures of the painting process:
http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album/view_album.php?
set_albumName=finalpaint
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 30, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Bob Carlson wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations for paint shops? Any
> estimates on what
> it will cost? Any place east of the great divide would be ok.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
I am not woried about getting the maximum top speed out of the XL kit we are beguining
to build.
As also owners of a 701, we like better the landing performance (more friendly)
of the Zenith family of airplanes...
As John stated, I will add a little more. I will hand off, change 10 mph of top
speed for the better landing qualities of the XL:... 10 miles per hours
diference in top speed, are only a few minutes per leg of flying. Sometimes
we lost more time in getting ready, waiting in line for take off, weather or
paying for the gas than the time gained in with flying speed.
As one old timer pilot here used to say... If you are in a hurry, better drive
than fly, driving will not be much afected with weather, Flying is to enjoy
and take your time...
Saludos
Gary Gower
John wrote:
Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you performance
numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph, then just go on and
get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general specifications in the last year
or so and the design cruise was dropped from 132 to 124mph. That is about all
you can expect. Another thing you are trying to do is install a different engine.
An awful lot is riding on you getting all of that installation done properly
and making it work for you. The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection,
has its limitations.
John
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Russell <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Bob: I was planning on painting the xL myself and just ran out of a place to do
it ( I sold my house and barn) so I took it to Macco. Yes Macco. I was really
surprised with the result. I know it looks better than I could have done and
it was done in a day. I will add a couple of vinyl stripes and be done. Jack
Ps. $1800
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG,XMDiploma_00,XMGenDplmaNmb autolearn=disabled
version=3.0.3
You are probably already a member of the Corvaircraft list but if not here
is the link:
http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
You should also ask your question there. And of course William Wynne (Mr.
Fly Corvair himself) has a 'vair on his 601XL. He started off with a stock
motor on the XL but recently changed to a 3,100cc. So he should be able to
give you numbers on both configurations. But he is a hard man to get a hold
of (to put it mildly).
Again you probably know this but the next Corvair College is Nov. 11-13. If
you are seriously considering the Corvair and *anywhere* within striking
distance of Daytona Beach, Fla you should attend.
I would give you numbers from my 601XL/Corvair but so far its average speed
is 0 mph (clean).
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William J.
Naumuk
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: accurate performance numbers
-->
All-
Anyone have numbers for the Corvair conversion? Can't beat the price!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: accurate performance numbers
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the comments. I've built and flown a couple 200 mph RV's
(an -8,
> and a Mazda rotary powered -3B), so I admit to a certain "need for speed".
> At the same time, I hate the medical regulation stuff, and would like
> to
try
> a Sport Pilot legal plane. My interest is in getting the most out of
> the limitation.
>
> I don't see the cruise speed you quoted. The current Zenith page
> shows
the
> following max cruise speeds:
> 134 mph (912S)
> 138 mph (Jabiru 3300)
> 138 mph (O-235)
>
> If I used one of these engines, and only got 120 mph, I wouldn't be happy.
> Fortunately, I've heard from a couple sources that the 3300 XL is
> truly meeting it's claims, which is good news.
>
> The single rotor Mazda engine I propose will be well proven (or
> perhaps disproven ) by the time I'd put it on the XL, since I'm
> finishing up
the
> installation of one on a Kolb Slingshot now. HP can well exceed
> anything reasonable for an XL, so power won't be an issue.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty (the rotary wacko)
>
>
> Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you
> performance numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about
> 5-10mph, then just go on and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their
> general specifications in the last year or so and the design cruise
> was dropped
from
> 132 to 124mph. That is about all you can expect. Another thing you
> are trying to do is install a different engine. An awful lot is
> riding on you getting all of that installation done properly and making it
work for you.
> The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection, has its limitations.
John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "neitzel" <n963wb(at)frontiernet.net> |
Greetings all
When installing the seat front to the control tunnel it appeared that it was necessary
to bend the center of the rear facing lip of the seat front to accommodate
the tunnel. Trying to keep it neat, I took a piece of 3/4 inch pipe and
clamped it to the lip with a vice grip. It came up ok and was a nice rounded
bend. However, by bending this area up causes the top edge of the seat front
to bend towards the front and is no longer a straight line. The only way I could
think of to get the top edge straight again was to stretch the bent up area.
A few well placed blows with a ball peen hammer on an anvil brought the piece
straight. Now it is ugly! If I had to do it all over again I would not bent
the seat front but make a cut out on the front of the tunnel to accommodate
the lip.
I have been using Cortec straight from the can and thought it was very thick but
figured that was the way it was supposed to be. I contacted ZAC and they recommended
cutting with a maximum of only 15% water. Mixed up a small batch of
the cut material and it goes on much better.
Dick Neitzel
701 Jabiru 2200
Sayner, WI
N962WB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mikeandlaurie3(at)netzero.net" <mikeandlaurie3(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring |
In a conversation with Nick Heinz at the Copperstate air show, he told me to wait
until wings are installed before drilling the exit hole in the fuselage sides.
This would be done from below using the lower fuselage access hole - sounds
good to me so I'm gonna wait til then.
Mike Clark in Arizona, N445ML, kit building a 601XL
In a conversation with Nick Heinz at the Copperstate air show, he told me to wait
until wings are installed before drilling the exit hole in the fuselage sides.
This would be done from below using the lower fuselage access hole - sounds
good to me so I'm gonna wait til then.
Mike Clark in Arizona, N445ML, kit building a 601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alex trent <atrent7(at)cogeco.ca> |
Some one mentioned a flight they had done from Las Vegas to the canyon.
He had rented a, I believe, a 172 with an instuctor. Sounded very
interesting and I kept the info for a couple of months now I can't find
it. I would sure appreciate it if he would contact me again with the
information. I am leaving for Las Vegas on Thurs.
alex t.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Valentine <mgvalentine(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Removing metal shavings/filings? |
I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may
remember, half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is
drilled, causing lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and
dumping, with some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end
up wedged in places and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they
do any damage in the short, medium, or long term? The question is
just how much is necessary.
Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
Michael Valentine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Osborne <todd(at)toddtown.com> |
That was me, last February. Still the best flight of my life. I lost the
original email I sent, but here is part of my diary entry :-)
We taxi-cabbed out to North Las Vegas to First Flight Aviation to get a
rented Cessna 172. Will Dryden, a local CFI, flew with us out to Lake
Mead, Hoover Dam and back west to Red Rock Canyon. It was the best
flight of my life, outstanding. Sherrie was in the back seat and got
some great pictures. We were told that one circle around Hoover Dam and
they considered us a tourist, 2 circles a terrorist :-) It was
fantastic, smooth and clear, and the controllers were great, as was
Will. He was a great co-pilot and navigator. Even though it had been
about a year since I flew, I did find, even the landing was good. All in
all it was a great vacation, now back to reality!
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd(at)toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd(at)toddtown.com
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn(at)aol.com
alex trent wrote:
>
> Some one mentioned a flight they had done from Las Vegas to the canyon.
> He had rented a, I believe, a 172 with an instuctor. Sounded very
> interesting and I kept the info for a couple of months now I can't find
> it. I would sure appreciate it if he would contact me again with the
> information. I am leaving for Las Vegas on Thurs.
>
> alex t.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Removing metal shavings/filings? |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
Don't forget the extra weight the shavings add! :-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Valentine
Subject: Zenith-List: Removing metal shavings/filings?
-->
I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may remember,
half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is drilled, causing
lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and dumping, with
some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end up wedged in places
and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they do any damage in the short,
medium, or long term? The question is just how much is necessary.
Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
Michael Valentine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing metal shavings/filings? |
Michael,
Yes, by all means, do push the shavings out before buttoning up your
bird. Use a feeler gage strip if
necessary and after you've deburred the last holes, vacuum or airblast
the material out. They can
cause you to pull a rivet and create a dink beside it. It's just better
housekeeping to clean before
you close.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Michael Valentine wrote:
>
>I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
>appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
>shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may
>remember, half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is
>drilled, causing lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
>
>Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
> Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and
>dumping, with some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end
>up wedged in places and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they
>do any damage in the short, medium, or long term? The question is
>just how much is necessary.
>
>Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
>
>Michael Valentine
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <lrm01(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing metal shavings/filings? |
I took a small flexible hose and use duct take to attach it to the bigger
hose of my shop vac. Got most of it but still have a few bouncing around in
my wings. I don't think a couple ozs of metal shavings is going to matter
much.
Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Removing metal shavings/filings?
>
>
> I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
> appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
> shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may
> remember, half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is
> drilled, causing lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
>
> Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
> Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and
> dumping, with some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end
> up wedged in places and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they
> do any damage in the short, medium, or long term? The question is
> just how much is necessary.
>
> Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
>
> Michael Valentine
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/30/05 |
> On Oct 30, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Bob Carlson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for paint shops? Any
>> estimates on what
>> it will cost? Any place east of the great divide would be ok.
The airport at Mena Arkansas has several paint shops that are pretty well
thought of nationwide and they all have webs sites. Google-- Mena Aircraft
paint -- and you will find the links.
When I first started building I contacted a couple and they were both in the
$5000 range.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Craze" <garycraze(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders and owners map |
Don't forget the STOL 801 map !
http://www.frappr.com/zenith801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
While dealing with a small design error in my elevator, I learned
that there have been a lot of small design changes to make the Zodiac
XL design compatible with the consensus LSA standard. These
represent changes in "Thinking" from one designer's home-built
experimental creation to a group's notion of a safe Light Sport Airplane.
If anything, the current version of the XL is more sturdy than it has
ever been. The change in VNE may reflect a difference in thinking
more than a new level of structural weakness.
Paul
XL wings
>
>I'm not planning to test my structural integrity by pushing
>to VNE (especially if it's 180). My reasons for asking the
>question are:
>
>1. Where to put the red line on ASI (and what range ASI)
>
>2. WHY the designer (CH??, NH??) chose to reduce the figure
>that represents structural strength by such a significant
>amount, now some 6-7 years after initial design. (or was
>it wrong from the start?)
>--RV, XL
>
>
>--- Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I actually spent a great deal of time worrying about the
> > VNE question.
> >
> > In the end, it seems the only time this issue comes up in
> > real flying
> > is when doing power dives. For normal operations, it is
> > maximum
> > cruise speed that will be the fastest you go.
> >
> > If my conclusion above is true, then it is only "Hot
> > dogging" that
> > plays into the VNE value after you have a little margin
> > over cruise
> > speed. Once I figured that out, I lost nearly all
> > interest in the
> > specification of VNE.
> >
> > Paul
> > XL wings
>
> > At 03:50 AM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >On the subject of crawfishin'...
> > >
> > >Another unanswered question is why the VNE for the XL
> > was
> > >changed in the April,05 revisions from 180 to 160 mph.
> > The
> > >website still shows 180.
> > >
> > >Anybody talk to ZAC about this one??
> > >
> > >Thanks again,
> > >--TioRico... gonna get a movable redline. [maybe I
> > should
> > >just ignore the revisions]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > Paul Mulwitz
> > 32013 NE Dial Road
> > Camas, WA 98607
> > ---------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > page,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VideoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
<<<<>>>
Are you sure about that? What kind of an engine am I supposed to use to get
my 601XL to 180 mph???
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring |
Paul:
The elevator tension keeps it back. Just like the bungee on the nose fork has
no stop or "keeper" on the front. Not necessary. You will see when you install
your elevator cables. There is plenty tension there and sliding the torque
tube forward is an non-issue.
For the flap hole - it can be moved to suit your installation. It is supposed to
be slotted anyway so you will have to move and expand the slot as needed with
the nylon insert.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Paul Moore wrote:
2 XL questions for those in the know:
The torque rod for the control yoke has a stop ring on the end just in front
of the front spar carry-through to keep the rod from exiting out the back of
the bearings. It sure seems like there should be a second one to keep it
from moving forward as well but nothing on the plans shows one. There are 4"
to 5" of travel available there, unless the aileron and elevator cable
tension is enough keep it pulled back tight. Did anyone add a second ring
either behind the front bearing or behind the rear one?
On the flap actuator torque rod bearings, there is only one way the big
bearing holes can be positioned in the bearing while honoring the edge
distances, etc.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
I flew a friend's XL with the Rotax 912s and averaged an honest 130+ mph
over a 6 hour day approximately. This was using a constant speed prop and a
power setting of 25" MP and 5,000 rpm at 2,000 to 3,000 asl. Ave. fuel
consumption was somewhere around 5.5usgph as I recall. I think the entire
story is linked at the 601.org website.
fwiw,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> I don't see the cruise speed you quoted. The current Zenith page shows the
> following max cruise speeds:
> 134 mph (912S)
> 138 mph (Jabiru 3300)
> 138 mph (O-235)
>
> If I used one of these engines, and only got 120 mph, I wouldn't be happy.
> Fortunately, I've heard from a couple sources that the 3300 XL is truly
> meeting it's claims, which is good news.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
Push the stick forward far enough and it will get there, engine or no engine.
>
> <<<< been test flown at. You are supposed to fly your plane to a speed of 111% of
> Vne during phase I testing to establish the safe operting limits of the
> airframe.>>>>
>
> Are you sure about that? What kind of an engine am I supposed to use to get
> my 601XL to 180 mph???
>
> Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
Gravity man! Use your engine to climb then let gravity do the rest.
Be careful.
Scott.
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com wrote:
<<<>>>
Are you sure about that? What kind of an engine am I supposed to use to get
my 601XL to 180 mph???
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: XL Main gear change, again |
What you propose may well change the CG, etc., I think I can speak for a
large number of XL flyers that landing hard on the mains is not really much of
a
concern as they are really over constructed and engineered for our gross
weight and speeds (which I am very pleased with), but on the other hand anything
that puts extra burden on the front gear certainly should be of concern.
Frankly, trying to ease the front gear down gently is a continual difficult landing
task just to ensure no collapse (see notes on Al Young's third landing). FWIW,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
Rico, maybe the Light Sport Plane category slice of the GA market with it's
max and minimum requirements for weight, stall speeds and VNE might answer your
concerns. Consider what sells airplanes for ZAC (or any manufacturer for that
matter) and plug in LSP and you may have your answer to why numbers have
changed in the past few years, FWIW, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Level Sender attachment |
We're looking for a good method to attach the fuel level senders to the fuel
tank.
The welded tank only has a 3"x3", 1/8" thick, plate welded to the side to
support the sender.
We feel uncomfortable allowing the sender to hang on the plate with only 5
10-32 screws tapped into the thin aluminum plate.
Nutplates?
We're considering not using the gasket and Pro-Sealing the sensor to the
tank.
This will seal the screws as well.
There's also an extra bracket/extension that comes assembled with the sensor
we don't think we need. Any reason for not removing this to reduce the
weight and moment of the sensor?
Any help is appreciated.
Scott & Eric
CH-640
Asheville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | building process on fuse |
Hi list
I have generally completed the tail and wings, and am
working on the fuse.
The photo guide is somewhat unclear on the process and
order as compared to the pictures in the guide.
I have the bottom of the fuse done and the rear side
skins clecoed on. the gear channel and floor seems
pretty obvious.
My problem, is when i put the upper logerons on the
firewall, some pictures show the skins on and some
show them off. also, the detail regarding the main
spare seems pretty loose.
Also, are you supposed to essentially complete the
fuse, then take it apart for deburring and corrosion
control or can you do it as you complete each section.
looking at the blowup of the fuse on the first section
of the plans seems pretty logical, but the breakdown
in the guide seems to jump around pretty much.]
i would like to deburr and have ready each section as
i build it, but not sure if this is the best. also,
do most of your use the pilot holes to set up and
immeadiately take them to the correct size.
these may seem obvious to most of you, but to me they
seem confused.
one thing for sure, the next plane i build will be
quicker and faster.
regards
john butterfield
601XL corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Level Sender attachment |
Hi Scott and Eric:
It's easy enough to fabricate a backing plate for your sender. Here's the one
I made for my wing tanks:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG
I just match-drilled it and threaded the holes for machine screws. It really secure
and seals well with the gasket. If you already have a 1/8" backing plated
welded to the tank, I think it would be prudent to drill the holes and tap them
for machine screws and you would be in business.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Eric Parlow wrote:
We're looking for a good method to attach the fuel level senders to the fuel
tank.
The welded tank only has a 3"x3", 1/8" thick, plate welded to the side to
support the sender.
We feel uncomfortable allowing the sender to hang on the plate with only 5
10-32 screws tapped into the thin aluminum plate.
Nutplates?
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Appreciate the article,
Personally I have done lots of rattle can jobs and have just completed
the instrument panel on my RV and its perfect using Rustoleum gloss and
the plastic handle used for making cans like a spray gun...MUCH easier.
Certainly would not attempt to paint a whole airplane like this but it
seems to me the actual spraying techniques are the same...I.e constant
distance from the metal, pull and release trigger at the beginning and
end of each run etc.
In other wods, if you can do a good rattle can job you "should" have
sufficient skill to run a spray gu as long as the paint is mixed
right....
Would you agree?
Frank
HDS (382 hours) and RV7A, about to hang engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Trevor Page
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: paint jobs
Bob, have you contacted any car paint shops locally to you with aluminum
painting experience?
Some of us decided to tackle the paint ourselfves and came out pretty
good. I get compliments on my garage paint job all the time. I thought
it would be hard but it's not. All of the work is in the prep of the
metal and you can expect a high-price from a shop because of this. If
you do it yourself you can save big $$.
I reckon my paint job was less than $700 in materials (used good paint).
If you want more info there is a really good article on painting on
www.ch601.org that explains pretty much everything you need to know. If
you read that and follow the instructions (which I
did) you'll end up just fine.
My website has lots of pictures of the painting process:
http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album/view_album.php?
set_albumName=finalpaint
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 30, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Bob Carlson wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations for paint shops? Any estimates
> on what it will cost? Any place east of the great divide would be ok.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Level Sender attachment |
Eric, I received recently VDO gauges and senders.
The instructions say that if your tank is shalower than ?? inches (I forget the
number), then you
should remove one of the sections.
This may or may not apply to your case, depending on the brand...
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
building tanks
--- Eric Parlow wrote:
>
...
> There's also an extra bracket/extension that comes assembled with the sensor
> we don't think we need. Any reason for not removing this to reduce the
> weight and moment of the sensor?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: building process on fuse |
John you are at the point in construction I found to be the most difficult so far.
You just have to get past it. I'm sure there are several ways to get this
done, but if you work through it, you will get it finished. No, it is not obvious
as I think everybody who has been there will tell you. When you actually
start riveting is up to you. In my case it was when I ran out of clecos. Remove,
debur, clean, prime and rivet what you can and leave the rest in clecos
until you have to move on or run out of clecos again.
If I remember correctly, I riveted the rear fuselage and sides, then assembled
the firewall and floor and riveted this part. Then I joined them together and
riveted. The top longerons were next and stayed cleco'd for a long time while
fitting the sides. The rear wing attachment was extremely time consuming for
me. I was really careful. Yesterday I fitted my right wing and noticed a gap
at the rear attachment point! Oh well, one more thing to deal with.
Hang in there and it will all come together.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
john butterfield wrote:
Hi list
I have generally completed the tail and wings, and am
working on the fuse.
The photo guide is somewhat unclear on the process and
order as compared to the pictures in the guide.
I have the bottom of the fuse done and the rear side
skins clecoed on. the gear channel and floor seems
pretty obvious.
My problem, is when i put the upper logerons on the
firewall, some pictures show the skins on and some
show them off. also, the detail regarding the main
spare seems pretty loose.
Also, are you supposed to essentially complete the
fuse, then take it apart for deburring and corrosion
control or can you do it as you complete each section.
looking at the blowup of the fuse on the first section
of the plans seems pretty logical, but the breakdown
in the guide seems to jump around pretty much.]
i would like to deburr and have ready each section as
i build it, but not sure if this is the best. also,
do most of your use the pilot holes to set up and
immeadiately take them to the correct size.
these may seem obvious to most of you, but to me they
seem confused.
one thing for sure, the next plane i build will be
quicker and faster.
regards
john butterfield
601XL corvair
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly good match
for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore registered as
a BULA (Canada regs).
It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being able to
carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a PSRU. I
wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a 1600 and
I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario might be
familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Saarinen" <sales(at)steelframe.com.au> |
| Subject: | Question on vortex generators |
G'Day Listers,
I have a 601 HDS that has a published stall speed of about 50 MPH.
To comply with Australian Ultralight Regs I have to reduce this by
4 MPH to be legal, Has any one fitted vortex generators to a HDS,
what distance from the leading edge are they fitted, what size & shape
are they, what angle are they fitted at, how many is needed to bring the
stall down by this amount, & last of all do the work
on this type aircraft ?
sorry about all the questions.
Any infomation would be greatly appreciated
Regards to all
Ron Saarinen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
VNE can be flown tested in a carefully controled dive flight, with a very gentle
recovering action, not something to do on a regular basis and without a chute...
Saludos
Gary Gower
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com wrote:
<<<>>>
Are you sure about that? What kind of an engine am I supposed to use to get
my 601XL to 180 mph???
Dave
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | Zodiac 601 wings |
I have a pair of Zodiac HDS wings (used) in excellent condition for sale.
Anyone interested can contact me at MOMANPOP(at)MARSHALLNET.COM .
Please send tele # and I will call you with details. Thanks Robert Tichy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Suzuki Samuri Alternator |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Hi guys. The above alt is used on a lot of homebuilts and yesterday in
the pattern the waring light would come on intermittently.
I am assuming it's a worn brush issue...Anyone know if you can buy
replacement brushes for these things??
Thanks
Frank
HDS/Stratus with Ram heads 382 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Level Sender attachment |
In our 701, I remember we changed/modified the bracket...
Cant remember now if we cut the not used part of the breacket or we changed the
metal bracket with a piece we made with 6061 -T6 left over we had in hand, but
finaly the sender was light enough for us...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Eric Parlow wrote:
We're looking for a good method to attach the fuel level senders to the fuel
tank.
The welded tank only has a 3"x3", 1/8" thick, plate welded to the side to
support the sender.
We feel uncomfortable allowing the sender to hang on the plate with only 5
10-32 screws tapped into the thin aluminum plate.
Nutplates?
We're considering not using the gasket and Pro-Sealing the sensor to the
tank.
This will seal the screws as well.
There's also an extra bracket/extension that comes assembled with the sensor
we don't think we need. Any reason for not removing this to reduce the
weight and moment of the sensor?
Any help is appreciated.
Scott & Eric
CH-640
Asheville, NC
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | contiental 0-200 |
I have a Continental 0-200 with log books,overhaul,parts manuals, and motor mount
for a Zodiac 601
for sale. anyone interested email me at MOMANPOP(at)MARSHALLNET.COM. Please include
tele#.
Thanks Robert Tichy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question on vortex generators |
| From: | "Eddie Seve" <eddie.seve(at)clarity.com> |
Hi Ron,
They are fitted at 10% of the wing cord
Size 20mm long x 10mm wide
They slope from the front at zero to the rear at about 10mm high
They are fitted at opposing angles of 15 degrees
Have a look at this site;
www.landshorter.com
Regards,
Eddie Seve
Waiting on kit, 1 week to go.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of R. Saarinen
Subject: Zenith-List: Question on vortex generators
G'Day Listers,
I have a 601 HDS that has a published stall speed of about 50 MPH.
To comply with Australian Ultralight Regs I have to reduce this by
4 MPH to be legal, Has any one fitted vortex generators to a HDS,
what distance from the leading edge are they fitted, what size & shape
are they, what angle are they fitted at, how many is needed to bring the
stall down by this amount, & last of all do the work on this type
aircraft ?
sorry about all the questions.
Any infomation would be greatly appreciated
Regards to all
Ron Saarinen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Crook" <ronflys701(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello Dave Im not an authority on 701s but I own my own as do 3 other
friends of mine if u want some real advise try to get Tom Mills from Guelph
he traines and has built a couple of 701s he is an instructor and is very
knowlegable with the 701.......you will hear alot of stuff out there don t
buy something u won t be happy with>>by the way his is a basic ultralight
....send him an email and I recommend him throughly..and he is also a nice
guy.....millfly(at)sentex.net
You won t be disappointed he and I have both 912 rotax in our planes and he
had a suzuki also. The builder had it registered basic because mine is home
built from plans as well??? Good luck and where are u located??.....Ron
>From: "Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
>Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:31:01 -0400
>
>
>I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly good
>match
>for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore registered as
>a BULA (Canada regs).
>
>It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being able to
>carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a PSRU. I
>wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a 1600
>and
>I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>
>It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario might be
>familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Crook" <ronflys701(at)hotmail.com> |
Where is this plane and who is the builder??I can tell u now Tom will tell u
to run in the opposite direction bad choise of engines and not enough
power.that is my take on that plane?? Regards Ron
>From: "Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
>Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:31:01 -0400
>
>
>I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly good
>match
>for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore registered as
>a BULA (Canada regs).
>
>It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being able to
>carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a PSRU. I
>wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a 1600
>and
>I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>
>It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario might be
>familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>
>
Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special
stationery, fonts and colors.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Builder: 1st question of many to come |
| From: | "Brad Renter" <beakon20(at)blueaero.net> |
Hello,
New to the group. I have been following the group for a few months now.
And finally decided to take the plunge. Have been looking at the zodiac
for a few years, actually the HDS and was planning on that. However cane
across an untouched XL tail kit, plans, etc to start and couldn't turn
down.
My first question for the group: I purchased the plans, manuals, a
complete tail kit (new, less than a month old from the factory) from the
original owner. What do I need from that owner to transfer the ownership
(serial number) for Zenith, Mine, and of the course the FAA records. I've
contacted Zenith also in regards to this question but I thought I would
ask here also.
Any help would be appreciated. Look for a construction log online within a
month or two.
Brad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: building process on fuse |
John, I agree with Scott. I am just about where you are. I riveted the
bottom first, then the sides. I am now working on the Firewall, and plan on
riveting this when done. Something to note. ZAC beefed up the top
stiffener on the firewall on their latest revision. My kit is version 2 and
doesn't have this reinforcement. It looks like this is to react nose gear
loads. I decided to make is similar to the new version.
http://www.zodiacxl.com/Forward%20Fusealage.htm
Scott, Really good advice. I have been following your site in my build. I
certainly agree that there is always "one more thing to deal with". I amaze
at the creative ways I have mess things up. I have come to a realization.
It is usually much easier to fix than you originally think. It is good to
know that we are all just learning.
Happy building
Cheers
Matt Archer
www.zodiacxl.com
> John you are at the point in construction I found to be the most difficult
> so far. You just have to get past it. I'm sure there are several ways to
> get this done, but if you work through it, you will get it finished. No,
> it is not obvious as I think everybody who has been there will tell you.
> When you actually start riveting is up to you. In my case it was when I
> ran out of clecos. Remove, debur, clean, prime and rivet what you can and
> leave the rest in clecos until you have to move on or run out of clecos
> again.
>
> If I remember correctly, I riveted the rear fuselage and sides, then
> assembled the firewall and floor and riveted this part. Then I joined
> them together and riveted. The top longerons were next and stayed cleco'd
> for a long time while fitting the sides. The rear wing attachment was
> extremely time consuming for me. I was really careful. Yesterday I
> fitted my right wing and noticed a gap at the rear attachment point! Oh
> well, one more thing to deal with.
>
> Hang in there and it will all come together.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> john butterfield wrote:
>
> Hi list
>
> I have generally completed the tail and wings, and am
> working on the fuse.
>
> The photo guide is somewhat unclear on the process and
> order as compared to the pictures in the guide.
>
> I have the bottom of the fuse done and the rear side
> skins clecoed on. the gear channel and floor seems
> pretty obvious.
>
> My problem, is when i put the upper logerons on the
> firewall, some pictures show the skins on and some
> show them off. also, the detail regarding the main
> spare seems pretty loose.
>
> Also, are you supposed to essentially complete the
> fuse, then take it apart for deburring and corrosion
> control or can you do it as you complete each section.
>
> looking at the blowup of the fuse on the first section
> of the plans seems pretty logical, but the breakdown
> in the guide seems to jump around pretty much.]
>
> i would like to deburr and have ready each section as
> i build it, but not sure if this is the best. also,
> do most of your use the pilot holes to set up and
> immeadiately take them to the correct size.
>
> these may seem obvious to most of you, but to me they
> seem confused.
>
> one thing for sure, the next plane i build will be
> quicker and faster.
> regards
> john butterfield
> 601XL corvair
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder: 1st question of many to come |
Hi Brad,
Congratulations, and welcome to the group.
I would guess a bill of sale and possibly the original Zenith invoice
to the first owner would be enough paperwork to satisfy even the
FAA. Of course, it is important that Zenith recognizes you as the
owner of that serial number so they provide proper support for you.
I think you will be happy with the XL. It offers higher performance
than the HDS and compatibility with the new Light Sport Aircraft
criteria. Rumor has it it has nicer flying traits than the HDS as well.
Good luck
Paul
XL wings
At 05:26 PM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>New to the group. I have been following the group for a few months now.
>And finally decided to take the plunge. Have been looking at the zodiac
>for a few years, actually the HDS and was planning on that. However cane
>across an untouched XL tail kit, plans, etc to start and couldn't turn
>down.
>
>My first question for the group: I purchased the plans, manuals, a
>complete tail kit (new, less than a month old from the factory) from the
>original owner. What do I need from that owner to transfer the ownership
>(serial number) for Zenith, Mine, and of the course the FAA records. I've
>contacted Zenith also in regards to this question but I thought I would
>ask here also.
>
>Any help would be appreciated. Look for a construction log online within a
>month or two.
>
>Brad
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <lrm01(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Suzuki Samuri Alternator |
I think I would just go to AutoZone and get another one or at least have
that one tested. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Suzuki Samuri Alternator
>
>
> Hi guys. The above alt is used on a lot of homebuilts and yesterday in
> the pattern the waring light would come on intermittently.
>
> I am assuming it's a worn brush issue...Anyone know if you can buy
> replacement brushes for these things??
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> HDS/Stratus with Ram heads 382 hours
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Waterborne finish |
0.15 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag
Been looking ahead to painting. I ran across 2 waterborne paint system. AFS and
Sherwin Williams. Has anyone had any experience with these. They look interesting.
And maybe easier that traditional finishes. They claim to be just
as good.
http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/
Doing more thinking today than building
Cheers
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
Can anyone tell me where to find a Subaru conversion intake manifold to fit a bing
carburetor? Thanks Robert Tichy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Hutson" <rhutson(at)MIDSOUTH.RR.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/30/05 |
GO TO WWW.VANSAIRFORCE.NET, DOUG HAS A LIST OF PAINT SHOPS THAT RV OWNERS
HAVE USED AND A RATING SYSTEM FOR EACH SHOP! BUT $5000.00 SOUNDS ABOUT
RIGHT FOR A PROFESSIONAL JOB.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any recommendations for paint shops? Any
>>> estimates on what
>>> it will cost? Any place east of the great divide would be ok.
>
> The airport at Mena Arkansas has several paint shops that are pretty well
> thought of nationwide and they all have webs sites. Google-- Mena Aircraft
> paint -- and you will find the links.
>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Moore" <pmoore505(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring |
Thanks Scott. Once again, common sense prevails after a few choice comments
from nice folks like you!
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring
Paul:
The elevator tension keeps it back. Just like the bungee on the nose fork
has no stop or "keeper" on the front. Not necessary. You will see when you
install your elevator cables. There is plenty tension there and sliding the
torque tube forward is an non-issue.
For the flap hole - it can be moved to suit your installation. It is
supposed to be slotted anyway so you will have to move and expand the slot
as needed with the nylon insert.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Paul Moore wrote:
2 XL questions for those in the know:
The torque rod for the control yoke has a stop ring on the end just in front
of the front spar carry-through to keep the rod from exiting out the back of
the bearings. It sure seems like there should be a second one to keep it
from moving forward as well but nothing on the plans shows one. There are 4"
to 5" of travel available there, unless the aileron and elevator cable
tension is enough keep it pulled back tight. Did anyone add a second ring
either behind the front bearing or behind the rear one?
On the flap actuator torque rod bearings, there is only one way the big
bearing holes can be positioned in the bearing while honoring the edge
distances, etc.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
Mark,
That may also be a way to save a little money. Now where did I see that cabinet
shop? The MDF that Carlos mentioned also looks pretty good.
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> I use the cutout part for sinks on solid surface kitchen counter tops. I
> think it is called corian or something like that. IT works better then
> anything else I have laid my hands on.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is
> the form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to
> laminating .125 aluminum to the plywood form. Is there some other, more
> dense material you have had good luck with?
>
> --
> Ron Lendon
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is
> the form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to
> laminating .125 aluminum to the plywood form. Is there some other, more
> dense material you have had good luck with?
>
>
> --
> Ron Lendon
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> >
>
> --
> 10/28/2005
>
>
> --
> 10/28/2005
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mark,
That may also be a way to save a little money.Now where did I see that cabinet
shop?The MDF that Carlos mentioned also looks pretty good.
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
I use the cutout part for sinks on solid surface kitchen counter tops. I
think it is called corian or something like that. IT works better then
anything else I have laid my hands on.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
-- Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon(at)comcast.net
Plans Builders,
I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is
the form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to
laminating .125 aluminum to the plywood form. Is there some other, more
dense material you have had good luck with?
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Plans Builders,
I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is
the form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to
laminating .125 aluminum to the plywood form. Is there some other, more
dense material you have had good luck with?
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
--
10/28/2005
--
10/28/2005
as the Subscriptions page,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Waterborne finish |
I remember this from awhile back. From the Archives: Message: #33693
http://smartshoppersinc.com/
It's a paint kit.
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Been looking ahead to painting. I ran across 2 waterborne paint system. AFS
> and Sherwin Williams. Has anyone had any experience with these. They look
> interesting. And maybe easier that traditional finishes. They claim to be just
> as good.
>
> http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/
>
> Doing more thinking today than building
>
> Cheers
>
> Matt
> www.zodiacxl.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
I remember this from awhile back. From the Archives:
Message:
#33693
http://smartshoppersinc.com/
It's a paint kit.
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Jo"
Been looking ahead to painting. I ran across 2 waterborne paint system. AFS
and Sherwin Williams. Has anyone had any experience with these. They look
interesting. And maybe easier that traditional finishes. They claim to be just
as good.
http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/
Doing more thinking today than building
Cheers
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
p; Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: subaru manifold |
http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/files/stratusnew/index.htm
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit shipped and waiting!
> Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific link for stratus?
>> You could buy one from Stratus
>>>Can anyone tell me where to find a Subaru conversion intake manifold
>>>to fit a bing carburetor? Thanks Robert Tichy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VNE Speed Changes |
| From: | "Adams Stephen - Doctors Hosp Augusta" <Stephen.Adams(at)HCAhealthcare.com> |
As far as I understand, VNE speed is a calculated value based upon the design limits.
The airplane is then tested to this speed to ensure that in practice this
is a safe speed. If there is any flutter or other problems at a lower speed,
the VNE is then decreased below the calculated value. If there are no problems
at the calculated VNE, I don't think they would increase the VNE above 80%
of the calculated design limit (VDL). I don't think they get some fool up in the
airplane and tell him to see how fast he can go before the airplane self destructs.
I would guess that the VNE has been lowered to meet more stringent design
loading criteria for SLA certification, but I don't know this for sure. It
could be that in testing for SLA certification they had some flutter at the
lower speed, requiring them to lower the VNE. In any event, since you are unlikely
to go that fast in a 601 on purpose, I would accept the lower number as the
ASI red line. Just my opinion.
Steve Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: subaru manifold |
Thanks Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Ribb
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: subaru manifold
http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/files/stratusnew/index.htm
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit shipped and waiting!
> Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific link for stratus?
>> You could buy one from Stratus
>>>Can anyone tell me where to find a Subaru conversion intake manifold
>>>to fit a bing carburetor? Thanks Robert Tichy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Form materials - MDF |
Ron, if you are going to use each form more than once, it's worth using a couple
of poliurethane
coats. Makes the forms real hard.
Have fun - and wear a mask, the dusk is very fine and gets *everywhere*.
Carlos
--- rlendon(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> That's the way I will go. MDF.
>
> I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps right
where I needed
> edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
>
> This list is really gonna help.
>
> --
> Ron Lendon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
Greetings,
Thanks for all the on, and off list comments on the XL performance numbers.
I'm now convinced that it will do what they say it will do, as long as you
give it a reasonable power plant.
The next problem is headroom. I'm tall from the waist up, and often have
headroom issues. If someone could do a test measurement for me, I'd be one
step closer to ordering an XL kit.
Can someone sit in a completed plane, and measure the minimum clearance
between your head, and the canopy? To make the measurement useful, I'll
also need to know how thick the cushion is (or do the test without the
cushion), and how tall you are sitting down. For example, my seated height
is 38.5", which I get from sitting on the floor, with my back against a
wall.
If someone can point me to a completed XL near Pensacola FL, I could try it
myself, but otherwise, this will have to do for now.
Thanks,
Rusty (almost future XL builder)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
Hi Bill,
In general I agree with you. I can't imagine bailing out of a
perfectly good airplane.
This question comes up with regard to the speed stress testing
discussed in relation to VNE. One writer appropriately suggested
wearing a parachute while intentionally flying your one-off
experimental plane above the designer's VNE limit. Of course, this
doesn't do a whole lot of good if you can't get out of the cockpit
after the wings fall off.
Oddly enough, I asked this question of ZAC's president, Sebastian
Heintz, earlier this year before ordering my kit. His cocky response
was some rude remark saying they had not tested the pilot egress
system or something like that.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
At 08:03 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>
>Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with forward
>tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding bolts to
>release the
>two front hinge points. Also might be possible with an inverted stall, but
>your timing would have to be perfect just as negative G and zero
>wind merge. Me,
>I'll just ride the bird on down, FWIW, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | XL Main gear change, again |
Rico,
My XL is flying, and I have the original XL main gear orientation, not
the new. When I fly solo with full fuel, I'm right in the forward CG
range, and it takes quite a bit of stick to pick the nose off the runway
(which you then need to let go of quickly to get to the correct pitch
attitude). Also, on landing, holding the nosewheel off for any
significant length of time is next to impossible in this configuration
With more weight/further aft CG, things get a little better, but it is
still noticeable. I think the newer orientation sounds like a good idea.
If I could just swap mine around, I'd try it (wheels/brakes etc. make it
a bit more involved now!)
I know the HDS is similar to this, so I suspect Chris designs it to
'stop flying' and 'start flying' like this. For example, when you land,
the nosewheel 'wants' to be on the runway just after the mains, which
certainly stops you accidentally flying again in a gust. I think
perhaps that's his intent.
..lance
XL/Jabiru 3300
http://lancegingell.com
From: Rico Voss <vozzen(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Main gear change, again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Formblock material |
Re Ron Lendon's inquiry about form block material:
I have epoxied a 1/4 layer of tempered Masonite onto furniture-grade plywood to
make very durable form blocks. This may be overkill for making one or a few
parts but it is just the thing for a large number of ribs. The Masonite is easily
shaped with band saw, belt sander and file.
There is a tooling plastic called Benelex which is great for form blocks, but probably
overkill for a one-off project.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice |
Dave I might know which plane you are speaking of.
From personal experience I would remove that engine and install a
used 80HP 912 or something akin to that. Tom Mills in Waterloo can
tell you plenty about his experiences with engines, having had 2 GEO
metro engines and now a 912.
Also, if I do think it is the plane you are referring to, the right
side top fuselage longeron is spliced having suffered a crash in
Quebec some years ago.
Again, I know of only 1 701 in the area with a VW engine so my
assumption is this very plane.
Please contact me off-list to discuss this if you wish to discuss this.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 31, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>
> I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly
> good match
> for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore
> registered as
> a BULA (Canada regs).
>
> It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being
> able to
> carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a
> PSRU. I
> wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a
> 1600 and
> I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>
> It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario
> might be
> familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston(at)delta.com> |
Paul,
FWIW. When I was considering the purchase of my 601HDS, Nicholas gave
me ride in the factory plane at Mexico, Mo. After the ride, I talked
with him about the VNE testing, and many other items. He indicated
that, for the 601HDS, his dad (Chris) did the VNE testing of each model.
He said that it was the only time that he sees his dad wear a parachute
when testing their aircraft. For the HDS he indicated that it had been
dive tested to 210 mph without any flutter problems. He indicated that
they list the VNE at 160 mph to give a good safety margin; knowing that
there are going to be variables in the quality of construction from one
plane to another.
You might ask if Chris still does this as part of the test flight
process for a new design.
I saw Bill Phillips response to this post, and I agree with him. What
seems like sharp answers are some of the differences of language
translation (English is a second language for them) and cultural
differences. I experienced some responses like you describe while I was
building, but found that if I questioned further they were always very
interested in being helpful to the building process.
Have fun,
Jim Weston
Ch601hds, Stratus
Concord, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
-->
Hi Bill,
In general I agree with you. I can't imagine bailing out of a perfectly
good airplane.
This question comes up with regard to the speed stress testing discussed
in relation to VNE. One writer appropriately suggested wearing a
parachute while intentionally flying your one-off experimental plane
above the designer's VNE limit. Of course, this doesn't do a whole lot
of good if you can't get out of the cockpit after the wings fall off.
Oddly enough, I asked this question of ZAC's president, Sebastian
Heintz, earlier this year before ordering my kit. His cocky response
was some rude remark saying they had not tested the pilot egress system
or something like that.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
At 08:03 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>
>Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with
>forward tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding
>bolts to release the two front hinge points. Also might be possible
>with an inverted stall, but your timing would have to be perfect just
>as negative G and zero wind merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down,
>FWIW, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Egan" <eedetailing(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | In-Flight Ivo Prop Results |
Folks,
Just got to complete my first test flight after conversion
from a ground adjustable to an inflight adjustable Ivo
Prop. Plane is a 2001 HD with an 80 hp Rotax 912UL.
Old setup was an IVO Ultralight model, 3 blades, pitched
at about 11 deg measured at the tips.
Cruise speed at 5000 rpm was 103 mph, climb rate about
800 fpm solo.
New hub, same blades, and a brush kit from sportplanell.com
which moves the brushes to behind the gearbox. Claims that
brushes will last 5 times longer. The brushes ride on rings that
are about 1" in diameter, instead of the 5" prop hub that Ivo
supplies.
Todays flight was at 6500', 6C and 30.26"
Max rpm I was able to get on climb-out is now 5200, higher
than before, but I think I can adjust the IVO stop washer to get
more rpm. Climbout is 1200 fpm measured on a variometer.
Dialed prop up at cruise and took three readings in three directions,
three separate times. Ran thru the true airspeed calculator at:
http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/True%20Air%20Speed/true_airspeed_calculator.htm
Got cruise speeds of 106, 107 and 114.
I was hoping for a cruise of 110 mph, and I think I might have
come really close to achieving it.
Obviously, more data will need to be collected. Winds aloft
were at about 30 mph, I'd like to take data on a calm day.
Thats it for now.
TimEgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rico Voss <vozzen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
Nick's prompt response confirms what several have
suggested, such as:
>... I would guess that the VNE has been lowered to
> meet more stringent design loading criteria for SLA
> certification...
> Steve Adams
From Nick today:
"The 3rd edition of the drawings have incorporated changes
for the S-LSA
ready to fly
Zodiac CH 601 XL. When the aircraft is registered as an
Experimental,
it is acceptable
to continue to use the 1st and 2nd edition design speed
limitation
shown on
drawing 6-X-1"
Thanks to all who commented.
--RV, XL/3300, soon to get back at it.
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
Chris tests every one of his designs before he releases the plans, He
does most of the tests without a parachute but in the final stages he
don's a chute , does a flutter test, tries to do a spin test ( planes
won't get there) and exceeds the Vne by a healthy margin. This is the
only reason why he puts on a chute. For me, I would forget the chute and
install diapers for what he puts the plane through!!!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weston, Jim
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
Paul,
FWIW. When I was considering the purchase of my 601HDS, Nicholas gave
me ride in the factory plane at Mexico, Mo. After the ride, I talked
with him about the VNE testing, and many other items. He indicated
that, for the 601HDS, his dad (Chris) did the VNE testing of each model.
He said that it was the only time that he sees his dad wear a parachute
when testing their aircraft. For the HDS he indicated that it had been
dive tested to 210 mph without any flutter problems. He indicated that
they list the VNE at 160 mph to give a good safety margin; knowing that
there are going to be variables in the quality of construction from one
plane to another.
You might ask if Chris still does this as part of the test flight
process for a new design.
I saw Bill Phillips response to this post, and I agree with him. What
seems like sharp answers are some of the differences of language
translation (English is a second language for them) and cultural
differences. I experienced some responses like you describe while I was
building, but found that if I questioned further they were always very
interested in being helpful to the building process.
Have fun,
Jim Weston
Ch601hds, Stratus
Concord, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
-->
Hi Bill,
In general I agree with you. I can't imagine bailing out of a perfectly
good airplane.
This question comes up with regard to the speed stress testing discussed
in relation to VNE. One writer appropriately suggested wearing a
parachute while intentionally flying your one-off experimental plane
above the designer's VNE limit. Of course, this doesn't do a whole lot
of good if you can't get out of the cockpit after the wings fall off.
Oddly enough, I asked this question of ZAC's president, Sebastian
Heintz, earlier this year before ordering my kit. His cocky response
was some rude remark saying they had not tested the pilot egress system
or something like that.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
At 08:03 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>
>Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with
>forward tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding
>bolts to release the two front hinge points. Also might be possible
>with an inverted stall, but your timing would have to be perfect just
>as negative G and zero wind merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down,
>FWIW, Best regards, Bill
--
11/1/2005
--
11/1/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
Rusty head over to Flight Crafters in Florida
http://www.flightcrafters.citymaker.com/page/page/1694089.htm
Or go have a seat in William Wynnes 601XL TD Also in Florida
http://www.flycorvair.com/
There are a few in your area and you should not have a problem finding a
601 to sit in. In Fact, if you talk really nice to William Wynne or Gus
you may even get a flight behind a fantastic Corvair Conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again
Greetings,
Thanks for all the on, and off list comments on the XL performance
numbers.
I'm now convinced that it will do what they say it will do, as long as
you
give it a reasonable power plant.
The next problem is headroom. I'm tall from the waist up, and often
have
headroom issues. If someone could do a test measurement for me, I'd be
one
step closer to ordering an XL kit.
Can someone sit in a completed plane, and measure the minimum clearance
between your head, and the canopy? To make the measurement useful, I'll
also need to know how thick the cushion is (or do the test without the
cushion), and how tall you are sitting down. For example, my seated
height
is 38.5", which I get from sitting on the floor, with my back against a
wall.
If someone can point me to a completed XL near Pensacola FL, I could try
it
myself, but otherwise, this will have to do for now.
Thanks,
Rusty (almost future XL builder)
--
11/1/2005
--
11/1/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
Thanks Mark, but neither of those places are exactly close by. The nearest
one is about a 6 hour drive. I'm hoping for something a little closer, or
at least for someone to do the measurement I mentioned.
BTW, I'm the rotary engine guy, so no extra points for Corvair installations
:-)
Cheers,
Rusty (zoom, zoom)
Rusty head over to Flight Crafters in Florida
http://www.flightcrafters.citymaker.com/page/page/1694089.htm
Or go have a seat in William Wynnes 601XL TD Also in Florida
http://www.flycorvair.com/
There are a few in your area and you should not have a problem finding a 601
to sit in. In Fact, if you talk really nice to William Wynne or Gus you may
even get a flight behind a fantastic Corvair Conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice |
Can't be this one as the plane I have located is not yet flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Page" <webmaster(at)upac.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
>
> Dave I might know which plane you are speaking of.
>
> From personal experience I would remove that engine and install a
> used 80HP 912 or something akin to that. Tom Mills in Waterloo can
> tell you plenty about his experiences with engines, having had 2 GEO
> metro engines and now a 912.
> Also, if I do think it is the plane you are referring to, the right
> side top fuselage longeron is spliced having suffered a crash in
> Quebec some years ago.
> Again, I know of only 1 701 in the area with a VW engine so my
> assumption is this very plane.
> Please contact me off-list to discuss this if you wish to discuss this.
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly
>> good match
>> for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore
>> registered as
>> a BULA (Canada regs).
>>
>> It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being
>> able to
>> carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a
>> PSRU. I
>> wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a
>> 1600 and
>> I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>>
>> It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario
>> might be
>> familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
Hey Trevor it wouldn't be the one in Godderich would it?
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
Can't be this one as the plane I have located is not yet flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Page" <webmaster(at)upac.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
>
> Dave I might know which plane you are speaking of.
>
> From personal experience I would remove that engine and install a
> used 80HP 912 or something akin to that. Tom Mills in Waterloo can
> tell you plenty about his experiences with engines, having had 2 GEO
> metro engines and now a 912.
> Also, if I do think it is the plane you are referring to, the right
> side top fuselage longeron is spliced having suffered a crash in
> Quebec some years ago.
> Again, I know of only 1 701 in the area with a VW engine so my
> assumption is this very plane.
> Please contact me off-list to discuss this if you wish to discuss
this.
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly
>> good match
>> for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore
>> registered as
>> a BULA (Canada regs).
>>
>> It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being
>> able to
>> carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a
>> PSRU. I
>> wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a
>> 1600 and
>> I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>>
>> It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario
>> might be
>> familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
11/1/2005
--
11/1/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
I too considered finding a way to jettison the canopy but for another
reason. I was going to mount a BRS chute behind the seats.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with forward
tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding bolts to release
the two front hinge points. Also might be possible with an inverted stall,
but your timing would have to be perfect just as negative G and zero wind
merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down, FWIW, Best regards, Bill Do Not
Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
Looking at http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 I don't see any 601's really
close to you. But if you are planning a road trip in almost any direction it
seems like you will pass by some builder's home. Also I believe there are
things you can do to the seat "pan" to lower it a little.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again
Greetings,
Thanks for all the on, and off list comments on the XL performance numbers.
I'm now convinced that it will do what they say it will do, as long as you
give it a reasonable power plant.
The next problem is headroom. I'm tall from the waist up, and often have
headroom issues. If someone could do a test measurement for me, I'd be one
step closer to ordering an XL kit.
Can someone sit in a completed plane, and measure the minimum clearance
between your head, and the canopy? To make the measurement useful, I'll
also need to know how thick the cushion is (or do the test without the
cushion), and how tall you are sitting down. For example, my seated height
is 38.5", which I get from sitting on the floor, with my back against a
wall.
If someone can point me to a completed XL near Pensacola FL, I could try it
myself, but otherwise, this will have to do for now.
Thanks,
Rusty (almost future XL builder)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: building process on fuse |
Thanks for the input. I emailed ZAC and got their response today. They
said the same thing. I am going to go with the original design. No since
adding weight. Thanks for the heads up. Lesson learned it is always good
to ask ZAC. Glad I hadn't drilled anything yet.
Cheers
Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: building process on fuse
>
> The reasoning behind the beefed up top stiffener was to bring all
> versions of the XL into line and only have one set of drawings, so the
> changes necessary for the Sport Pilot category are updates on our plans
> and the changes necessary for the ELSA? ALUA?( I'm Canadian and still
> can't figure out which is which yet) that will be used for flight
> instruction will be an update on our plans. SO if you have ever been in
> a circuit behind several student all learning about the term wheel
> barrowing then you can understand the need for Zenith to beef up the
> stiffener. For the rest of us the old version is just fine and has been
> used trouble free since the start of the Zodiac series. Not the same can
> be said for the 701. Changes were necessary on that model, since it was
> originally designed for a 503 2 stroke engine and people were hanging
> Subaru's and 912's. Therefore, changes were necessary to accommodate the
> heavier engines.
> So end result change is not necessary for the majority of us and it
> would likely just add unwanted weight. But If you plan or have a history
> of 1 wheel landings then by all means add the stiffeners it won't hurt
> anything.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG |
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
I love the frappr maps, and had already noticed a void around my area.
Worst case, I'll find someone with a plane at an airport in the near
vicinity (as the RV flies), and get one of my buddies to take me over to see
it. Of course this would be easier if I hadn't sold the RV-3 :-)
Cheers,
Rusty
-->
Looking at http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 I don't see any 601's really
close to you. But if you are planning a road trip in almost any direction it
seems like you will pass by some builder's home. Also I believe there are
things you can do to the seat "pan" to lower it a little.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Form materials - MDF |
Thanks Carlos,
I do most of my cutting outside to keep the dust off the 86 Fiero, but will wear
mask anyway. That stuff is full of some sort of glue that can't be good for
inhalation.
Ron
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Ron, if you are going to use each form more than once, it's worth using a couple
> of poliurethane
> coats. Makes the forms real hard.
>
> Have fun - and wear a mask, the dusk is very fine and gets *everywhere*.
>
> Carlos
>
> --- rlendon(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> > That's the way I will go. MDF.
> >
> > I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps
> right where I needed
> > edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
> >
> > This list is really gonna help.
> >
> > --
> > Ron Lendon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks Carlos,
I do most of my cutting outside to keep the dust off the 86 Fiero, but will wear
mask anyway. That stuff is full of some sort of glue that can't be good for
inhalation.
Ron
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
Ron, if you are going to use each form more than once, it's worth using a couple
of poliurethane
coats. Makes the forms real hard.
Have fun - and wear a mask, the dusk is very fine and gets *everywhere*.
Carlos
--- rlendon(at)comcast.net wrote:
-- Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon(at)comcast.net
That's the way I will go. MDF.
I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps
right where I needed
edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
This list is really gonna help.
--
Ron Lendon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG |
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
Don't forget the builders database on the Zenith site. I don't think
non-builders can access it but any builder can pull-up a set of entries by
state (but only those who have added an entry and kept it up to date). I
just did some searches and got these numbers for Zodiac 601's of *any* type
(HD, HDS, XL):
Alabama - 11 (1 listed as finished)
Florida - 15 (3 listed as finished)
Georgia - 15 (3 listed as finished)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
I love the frappr maps, and had already noticed a void around my area.
Worst case, I'll find someone with a plane at an airport in the near
vicinity (as the RV flies), and get one of my buddies to take me over to see
it. Of course this would be easier if I hadn't sold the RV-3 :-)
Cheers,
Rusty
-->
Looking at http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 I don't see any 601's really
close to you. But if you are planning a road trip in almost any direction it
seems like you will pass by some builder's home. Also I believe there are
things you can do to the seat "pan" to lower it a little.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Parachutes kill. |
I too have given this some thought, and reasoned that I would only feel
comfortable pulling that lever when I had no other option. But there in lies
the problem, if you have the altitude you need to pull the chute you also
should have other options. Also, how would I know that I had no other option
until after it is too late (sometimes to early as on takeoff) to pull the
chute (low altitude). And the what if factor. What if I set off this
dynamite and it rips off the tail of my plane along with some attachment
points. Now I'm really screwed. I know I would try my best to sit my baby
down somewhere safe before I would elect to tear her apart with dynamite. It
may sound silly but if an in-flight emergency ever happens to me (fair
chance of that) I don't want more decisions to make. I just want to do what
I've been trained to do without hesitation. Not saying BRS units are not a
good idea in some cases. I suspect these installations are not easy to do.
And, how do you know you have done it correctly? I would be afraid of
testing the quality of my particular installation whenever I had other
options. Short of building myself a test plane, in addition to the one I'm
already building, I don't think I would ever feel confident. What it boils
down to for me is, would I be able to pull the lever as long as I had
altitude? NO, and any other time it would be useless.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
At 12:14 AM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
>
>Craig,
>I recommend before you do the ballistic chute, you look up the number of
>times one of the 601 Series
>aircraft needed to be abandoned in flight. Most of the time the plane
>incurs difficulty close to the ground
>where little if any use could be made of the BC. I think the same of
>the idea of wearing a parachute,
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Parachutes kill. |
BTW I only responded to this to see what others have to say about my
particular train of thought. I may be wrong about it. Voicing my opinion is
one way of finding out if there is information I am missing.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Harris (Pumpkin Man)" <pumpkin_man(at)autoinsanity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Headroom questions again |
FWIW, I have the same concerns in any of the kitplanes I have been
considering. I am 6' 3" and about 240 lb. Likewise, I have a tall sitting
height relative to my overall height. I have spent quite a bit of time
wedging myself into experimentals to check the fit. That is a major criteria
for me.
I was home on leave and attended Copperstate this year. I sat in an RV-7,
601XL, and a 701. I also sat in a Thorp T-211.
The aircraft with the most room for me by far was the 601XL, even moreso
than the RV-7. Headroom was no problem at all, even on the thick factory
cushions Zenith has. Legroom was fine, and can be lengthened even more from
the factory aircraft. Widthwise, it was fine.
The RV was a bit shorter on headroom, particularly to the side. I could
contact the left side of the canopy pretty easily. I would have to use a
thin seat cushion to keep a headset from rubbing.
Headroom in the 701 was great, but widthwise I barely fit. Being a
helicopter pilot, I really liked the views from the 701 with the doors off.
I just wish it was a little faster.
I went down to Tucson and wedged myself into a Thorp T-211. Unfortunately,
it was way too small. I had to lay sideways to close the canopy, and my
knees were wedged under the instrument panel. There was actually more room
than I thought, but still very tight, and a flight of any length would be
very uncomfortable for me. A shame, because that little airplane is so well
built, and would be great with a Corvair. Also, I sat in an RV-4 a while
back and thought I was going to have to use a can opener to get myself out.
The bottom line is, if you can fit in an RV-7, you can fit comfortably in an
XL, IMHO. Try before you buy of course, but I think you'll find the XL is
unique among the two-seaters for its interior space.
MAJ George B. Harris
Jetranger Instructor Pilot
Senior Iraqi Air Force AST
Taji, Iraq
DPN 073404153
george.harris2(at)us.army.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron dewees <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BSR considerations |
I heard a radio talk show/pilot/lawyer discuss the BSR issue yesterday
on the radio and it brought up a point I had not considered. He says
that the insurance industry is very leary of them for certificated
planes. Their reasoning is that the pilot will use the BSR as a first
way out of a dicey situation that may have been avoidable. The plane is
essentially a writeoff in the event of the deplolyed BSR and the pilot
lives to put the claim in. We used to say fly the plane, fly the plane,
fly the plane,-- he says we now say-- fly the plane, fly the plane- pull
the BSR!
It's all a non-issue if you have structural failure and have to save
your buns, but OTOH you may not be up there at all if you can't afford
the insurance for your expensive plane of choice.
Ron
kevinbonds wrote:
>
>I too have given this some thought, and reasoned that I would only feel
>comfortable pulling that lever when I had no other option. But there in lies
>the problem, if you have the altitude you need to pull the chute you also
>should have other options. Also, how would I know that I had no other option
>until after it is too late (sometimes to early as on takeoff) to pull the
>chute (low altitude). And the what if factor. What if I set off this
>dynamite and it rips off the tail of my plane along with some attachment
>points. Now I'm really screwed. I know I would try my best to sit my baby
>down somewhere safe before I would elect to tear her apart with dynamite. It
>may sound silly but if an in-flight emergency ever happens to me (fair
>chance of that) I don't want more decisions to make. I just want to do what
>I've been trained to do without hesitation. Not saying BRS units are not a
>good idea in some cases. I suspect these installations are not easy to do.
>And, how do you know you have done it correctly? I would be afraid of
>testing the quality of my particular installation whenever I had other
>options. Short of building myself a test plane, in addition to the one I'm
>already building, I don't think I would ever feel confident. What it boils
>down to for me is, would I be able to pull the lever as long as I had
>altitude? NO, and any other time it would be useless.
>
>Kevin Bonds
>
>Nashville TN
>
>601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
>Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Eli" <robert.eli(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | BSR considerations |
During Air Venture, I talked to BRS about the installation for the CH701.
They now have the installation drawings available on request. I have a copy
and it does not appear that it will be difficult to install it in my CH701.
I do plan to install the BRS. My take on this whole issue is that my "buns"
are of high value, and in the event of an emergency I would rather have more
options of saving my "buns", rather than less. I think the key to the
pilot's proper use of the BRS is to do some planning. I plan to generate a
list of possible emergency situations that might warrant use of the BRS, and
have a "game plan" with regard to when to use it and when not to use it
(proper altitude?, lack of emergency landing sites?, structural failure?,
attitude control system failure?, etc.). Here in West Virginia, there are
few suitable spots to set down safely, and I think the BRS will provide an
additional safety factor.
Bob Eli
CH701 - working on the elevator.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron dewees
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: BSR considerations
I heard a radio talk show/pilot/lawyer discuss the BSR issue yesterday
on the radio and it brought up a point I had not considered. He says
that the insurance industry is very leary of them for certificated
planes. Their reasoning is that the pilot will use the BSR as a first
way out of a dicey situation that may have been avoidable. The plane is
essentially a writeoff in the event of the deplolyed BSR and the pilot
lives to put the claim in. We used to say fly the plane, fly the plane,
fly the plane,-- he says we now say-- fly the plane, fly the plane- pull
the BSR!
It's all a non-issue if you have structural failure and have to save
your buns, but OTOH you may not be up there at all if you can't afford
the insurance for your expensive plane of choice.
Ron
kevinbonds wrote:
>
>I too have given this some thought, and reasoned that I would only feel
>comfortable pulling that lever when I had no other option. But there in
lies
>the problem, if you have the altitude you need to pull the chute you also
>should have other options. Also, how would I know that I had no other
option
>until after it is too late (sometimes to early as on takeoff) to pull the
>chute (low altitude). And the what if factor. What if I set off this
>dynamite and it rips off the tail of my plane along with some attachment
>points. Now I'm really screwed. I know I would try my best to sit my baby
>down somewhere safe before I would elect to tear her apart with dynamite.
It
>may sound silly but if an in-flight emergency ever happens to me (fair
>chance of that) I don't want more decisions to make. I just want to do what
>I've been trained to do without hesitation. Not saying BRS units are not a
>good idea in some cases. I suspect these installations are not easy to do.
>And, how do you know you have done it correctly? I would be afraid of
>testing the quality of my particular installation whenever I had other
>options. Short of building myself a test plane, in addition to the one I'm
>already building, I don't think I would ever feel confident. What it boils
>down to for me is, would I be able to pull the lever as long as I had
>altitude? NO, and any other time it would be useless.
>
>Kevin Bonds
>
>Nashville TN
>
>601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
>Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:XL Main gear change, again |
With just you and fuel the C/G should be close to the front of the envelope.
IF it isn't if you fully load the seats and the rear cargo area you would be
pusing the rear edge of the envelope.
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Rico,
My XL is flying, and I have the original XL main gear orientation, not
the new. When I fly solo with full fuel, I'm right in the forward CG
range, and it takes quite a bit of stick to pick the nose off the runway
(which you then need to let go of quickly to get to the correct pitch
attitude). Also, on landing, holding the nosewheel off for any
significant length of time is next to impossible in this configuration
With more weight/further aft CG, things get a little better, but it is
still noticeable. I think the newer orientation sounds like a good idea.
If I could just swap mine around, I'd try it (wheels/brakes etc. make it
a bit more involved now!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: In-Flight Ivo Prop Results |
Tim, I very interested in the IVO inflight adjustable prop. Have you
considered using only two blades?
Folks,
Just got to complete my first test flight after conversion
from a ground adjustable to an inflight adjustable Ivo
Prop. Plane is a 2001 HD with an 80 hp Rotax 912UL.
Old setup was an IVO Ultralight model, 3 blades, pitched
at about 11 deg measured at the tips.
Cruise speed at 5000 rpm was 103 mph, climb rate about
800 fpm solo.
New hub, same blades, and a brush kit from sportplanell.com
which moves the brushes to behind the gearbox. Claims that
brushes will last 5 times longer. The brushes ride on rings that
are about 1" in diameter, instead of the 5" prop hub that Ivo
supplies.
Todays flight was at 6500', 6C and 30.26"
Max rpm I was able to get on climb-out is now 5200, higher
than before, but I think I can adjust the IVO stop washer to get
more rpm. Climbout is 1200 fpm measured on a variometer.
Dialed prop up at cruise and took three readings in three directions,
three separate times. Ran thru the true airspeed calculator at:
http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/True%20Air%20Speed/true_airspeed_calculator.htm
Got cruise speeds of 106, 107 and 114.
I was hoping for a cruise of 110 mph, and I think I might have
come really close to achieving it.
Obviously, more data will need to be collected. Winds aloft
were at about 30 mph, I'd like to take data on a calm day.
Thats it for now.
TimEgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp(at)msn.com> |
I have been reading the postings regarding the installation of a BRS. I have to
admit that I am still undecided about installing the canopy but I think I have
decided to go ahead and install the hard points. It should only take a couple
of hours' work and who knows, if I ever decide to sell my plane, the person
who buys it might want to install the canopy.
All of the postings, however, reminds me of stories I have read about the introduction
of personal parachutes to the WW1 pilots. A lot of the same arguments
were voiced then as well...."the pilot will opt to use the chute instead of staying
with the machine....", etc.
Not an opinion, just an observation.....
Brad Cohen
601Xl, working on the wings
Do Not Archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Parachutes kill. |
Hello Paul and Kevin,
respecting your route of argumentation I just wanted to add some
thoughts that are different:
Here in Germany BRS systems are mandatory for Ultralights. Since almost
every Zodiac here flies under UL regulations, they all have a BRS
installed. So it is a well known, proven industry standard.
BTW: Most modern BRS Systems do not work with explosive cartridges but
with rocket motors. These rockets draw the chute completely out of its
container in less than one second. We were told in our ultralight theory
class, that the minimum altitude to shoot the BRS is less than 300ft.
Some years ago there was a "Ikarus C42" ultralight taking off from a
former military airfield in southern Germany. While still in the pattern
they encountered a near miss with a F-4 Phantom fighter jet. Its Crew
used the airport as a navigation point. However, there was no actual mid
air collision but the wake turbulence of the military aircraft tore the
tube and fabric wing to shreds. Pilot and passenger survived with minor
injuries due to their BRS System.
And as I remember, there was a sad incident discussed in this list some
months ago, when a experienced, professional test pilot took a Zodiac
for its first flight testing and was killed when it crashed into a
building short after take off. I don't want to speculate about anything,
but a BRS would certainly give one additional option in a situation
similar to this.
I think it is a tough decision to purposely shred an airplane to save
your live especially when you have built the darn thing with all your
love. The important point for me is: If I survive, I can build a new
one.
When it is time to decide in my project (HDS/TDO), I will seriously
consider a BRS even though I don't have to have one in my experimental
category plane.
As I mentioned earlier, no offense intended to anyone. Just adding
points to discuss.
Peter Barthold
HDS/TDO Tail complete, waiting for the wing kit
www.petersprojekt42.de (sorry, mostly German)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
Thanks very much for all the comments on this. I think I'm convinced that
headroom either won't be an issue, or at will as least be manageable with
some minor modifications to the canopy height, or seat pan.
BTW, extra credit points go to Bill for the link to the dimension page. I
saw this page a couple weeks ago, but I was looking at all sorts of planes
at the time. Recently, I tried to find it on the Zenith page, but couldn't.
Eventually, I became convinced that it must have been for some other plane.
Nice to find out I didn't imagine the page :-)
I've also located an 85% complete XL in Pensacola. I haven't talked to the
builder yet, but found out about it from a local Sonex builder who I visited
recently. I'll be trying to get by to see the local XL project in the near
future, then I guess I can make a real decision.
Thanks again,
Rusty (fighting the temptation to build another RV-8)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
It was recommended to have the heads done by Ram because of heating problems. Any
one know the Ram email
address?
Thanks
Bob Tichy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo Gates" <leogates(at)allvantage.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In-Flight Ivo Prop Results |
Tim,
I am interested in the brush kit, but sportplanell.com is not a good URL.
Leo Gates
N601Z, 2 Blade, Magnum, Ivoprop, Rotax 912UL
-------Original Message-------
From: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 11/01/05 14:22:32
Subject: Zenith-List: In-Flight Ivo Prop Results
Folks,
Just got to complete my first test flight after conversion
from a ground adjustable to an inflight adjustable Ivo
Prop. Plane is a 2001 HD with an 80 hp Rotax 912UL.
Old setup was an IVO Ultralight model, 3 blades, pitched
at about 11 deg measured at the tips.
Cruise speed at 5000 rpm was 103 mph, climb rate about
800 fpm solo.
New hub, same blades, and a brush kit from sportplanell.com
which moves the brushes to behind the gearbox. Claims that
brushes will last 5 times longer. The brushes ride on rings that
are about 1" in diameter, instead of the 5" prop hub that Ivo
supplies.
Todays flight was at 6500', 6C and 30.26"
Max rpm I was able to get on climb-out is now 5200, higher
than before, but I think I can adjust the IVO stop washer to get
more rpm. Climbout is 1200 fpm measured on a variometer.
Dialed prop up at cruise and took three readings in three directions,
three separate times. Ran thru the true airspeed calculator at:
http://homepages.together
net/~billvt/True%20Air%20Speed/true_airspeed_calculator.htm
Got cruise speeds of 106, 107 and 114.
I was hoping for a cruise of 110 mph, and I think I might have
come really close to achieving it.
Obviously, more data will need to be collected. Winds aloft
were at about 30 mph, I'd like to take data on a calm day.
Thats it for now.
TimEgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Sort of.....But not quite.
Firstly we are talking about a Stratus motor. Stratus has been plagued
somewhat by valve guides falling into the combustion chamber until they
meet the tapered section of the valve where chunks of guide get broken
off and it destroys the top half of your engine.
Stratus came up with a totally inadequate solution (IM not so HO) which
simply did not work.
Stratus put this down in my case to overheating....Overheating or not
there is no way no how a valve guide should come out of a head not
matter what you do with the motor as long as it was put in right in the
first place.
This means the guide is made 1 to 2 thou bigger than the hole in the
head, the head heated, the guide chilled and the two put together.
It will never come out.
Ram performance gose one step further and (In addition to heat
shrinking) make guides with a step on the outside so it is a "belt and
braces approach". This requires a CNC lathe to do economically and Ram
was the only shop to understand the issue and decided to offer such
guides.
Ron Carr's workmanship is superb and even though it is expensive it
pales into insignificance compared to the first time you feel the
sickening torque reversal thru the airframe when your engine eats a
guide...Of course it always happens over densely populated areas, trees
or water!
Do not accept "fixes" that involve Locktite, knurling the outside of the
guide (to bring it up to size) or circlips...These are have all failed
in my engine.
I would avise you take the opportunity to check your jetting in the
carbs. Mine required upsizing quite a bit. This may have been due to
the porting job that Ron did for me as part of the head work. As I did
not check the jetting before Ron worked my heads I can't be sure if they
were set right from Stratus to begin with or not...Too small jetting
will cause hot runnig on the rich side of peak EGT which May have
contributed to the signs of overheating that Stratus say they say in my
heads.
Either way...still not an excuse to loose valve guides.
Ram Performance...You know it makes sense as does the 10% kickback they
gave me.....NOT!...:)
http://www.ramengines.com/index.html
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
momanpop(at)marshallnet.com
Subject: Zenith-List: ea-81/ram
It was recommended to have the heads done by Ram because of heating
problems. Any one know the Ram email address?
Thanks
Bob Tichy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Perkins" <Timothy.Perkins(at)uvm.edu> |
Hi All,
Am thinking about adding a fuel gauge to my 601HD to allow reading below
where the sight-tube ends, but don't really want to have to cut a hole in
the header tank to mount a sender, so was wondering about using another
approach.
Most fuel gauges accept some type of standard analog signal. What would be
the problem in putting a t-fitting at the header tank outlet and putting a
pressure transducer (to measure fuel level via the pressure head) on the
horizontal arm of the t-fitting, and having the fuel flow out the vertical
arm (as it usually does, a rough diagram is below)? Finding a transducer
that spit out a 0-5V signal would be simple, as would finding a gauge that
would accept a 0-5V signal. This would eliminate a lot of work, and
eliminate cutting another hole in the tank (think leaks). The "sender" might
be a bit more costly, but the installation would be a MUCH easier retrofit.
My main concern is that it doesn't seem to be a "typical" solution one sees,
and I wonder why that is (although searching for "fuel pressure" is useless
as it is a different thing altogether). At least one fuel gauge supplier has
said it should work.
Any comments?
Tim Perkins, VT
N1170Q 601HD/Rotax 912UL
| |
| Header |
| tank |
------------------
|
Pressr |
transd --|
|
v
fuel flow
to engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Very small pressure head means a very sensitive guage.
Add to that the slopping around of the fuel and I think it would be
close to being useless. Yopu'll need to check the calibration often.
I use this method at work to measure the level of sulfuric acid down to
a couple of inches head and it works ok but sulfuric is about 3.5 times
heavier than gasoline and its not slopping around either.
Why not simply extend your sight tube using the tee in the supply line
as you described for the bottom of the sight tube?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Perkins
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel level
-->
Hi All,
Am thinking about adding a fuel gauge to my 601HD to allow reading below
where the sight-tube ends, but don't really want to have to cut a hole
in the header tank to mount a sender, so was wondering about using
another approach.
Most fuel gauges accept some type of standard analog signal. What would
be the problem in putting a t-fitting at the header tank outlet and
putting a pressure transducer (to measure fuel level via the pressure
head) on the horizontal arm of the t-fitting, and having the fuel flow
out the vertical arm (as it usually does, a rough diagram is below)?
Finding a transducer that spit out a 0-5V signal would be simple, as
would finding a gauge that would accept a 0-5V signal. This would
eliminate a lot of work, and eliminate cutting another hole in the tank
(think leaks). The "sender" might be a bit more costly, but the
installation would be a MUCH easier retrofit.
My main concern is that it doesn't seem to be a "typical" solution one
sees, and I wonder why that is (although searching for "fuel pressure"
is useless as it is a different thing altogether). At least one fuel
gauge supplier has said it should work.
Any comments?
Tim Perkins, VT
N1170Q 601HD/Rotax 912UL
| |
| Header |
| tank |
------------------
|
Pressr |
transd --|
|
v
fuel flow
to engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In-Flight Ivo Prop Results |
Try http://sportplanellc.com/Products.htm
Look for IVO Prop Control.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit shipped and waiting!
>
> Tim,
> I am interested in the brush kit, but sportplanell.com is not a good URL.
>
> Leo Gates
> N601Z, 2 Blade, Magnum, Ivoprop, Rotax 912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
Remember too, that the pressure inside the tank is fluctuating all over due
to the venting of the tank, airspeed, angle-of-attack, etc. It is not
unusual for a tank to be slightly pressurized by the vent line during
flight.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit ordered and waiting!
> Very small pressure head means a very sensitive guage.
>
> Add to that the slopping around of the fuel and I think it would be
> close to being useless. Yopu'll need to check the calibration often.
>
> I use this method at work to measure the level of sulfuric acid down to
> a couple of inches head and it works ok but sulfuric is about 3.5 times
> heavier than gasoline and its not slopping around either.
>
> Why not simply extend your sight tube using the tee in the supply line
> as you described for the bottom of the sight tube?
>
> Frank
> Hi All,
>
> Am thinking about adding a fuel gauge to my 601HD to allow reading below
> where the sight-tube ends, but don't really want to have to cut a hole
> in the header tank to mount a sender, so was wondering about using
> another approach.
>
> Most fuel gauges accept some type of standard analog signal. What would
> be the problem in putting a t-fitting at the header tank outlet and
> putting a pressure transducer (to measure fuel level via the pressure
> head) on the horizontal arm of the t-fitting, and having the fuel flow
> out the vertical arm (as it usually does, a rough diagram is below)?
> Finding a transducer that spit out a 0-5V signal would be simple, as
> would finding a gauge that would accept a 0-5V signal. This would
> eliminate a lot of work, and eliminate cutting another hole in the tank
> (think leaks). The "sender" might be a bit more costly, but the
> installation would be a MUCH easier retrofit.
>
> My main concern is that it doesn't seem to be a "typical" solution one
> sees, and I wonder why that is (although searching for "fuel pressure"
> is useless as it is a different thing altogether). At least one fuel
> gauge supplier has said it should work.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Tim Perkins, VT
> N1170Q 601HD/Rotax 912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Egan" <eedetailing(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: In-Flight Ivo Prop Results |
Leo,
Sorry, fat fingered it:
www.sportplanellc.com
Look under products, under the IVO prop.
Good people, they were kitfox dealers on the other side of my state.
Trying to get them interested in the zenair line.
What numbers are you getting for cruise and climb with your magnum prop?
Tim Egan
Tim,
I am interested in the brush kit, but sportplanell.com is not a good URL.
Leo Gates
N601Z, 2 Blade, Magnum, Ivoprop, Rotax 912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Egan" <eedetailing(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: In-Flight Ivo Prop Results |
Gig,
Yeah, I've been told that two blades should give better cruise than
three. I think I'll make another data run with the prop setup for
three blades, take five or six different runs and average them.
Then, I'll remove one blade and put the filler blocks in and take
several data runs with two blades, and report them back here.
Folks, there has been a lot of bad writing about IVO props in the past,
and they were not without problems. I have one on a challenger II,
and did have an adjustment cam break off, which caused one blade
to have a different pitch than the other. It is extremely important to
correctly torque the IVO prop, and to re-check the torque often.
Make it a part of your preflight check to inspect the required
tell-tale tape across the blades. However, the challenger prop
has over 600 hours on it, and the zodiac prop around 100 hours.
I'll keep running them for a while.
Tim Egan
Tim, I very interested in the IVO inflight adjustable prop. Have you
considered using only two blades?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I suspect that you will run into temperature shifts screwing up the
readings. I have a sight gage and when the gas disappears as the gas goes
below 8 gal. it's time to think about landing in no more than an hour. I
quit that get thereitis after a couple of stupid self imposed close calls
when I was a 2 Lt.
Leo Corbalis
archive this and have it tatooed on the inside of your eyelids !!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Perkins" <Timothy.Perkins(at)uvm.edu>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel level
>
> Hi All,
>
> Am thinking about adding a fuel gauge to my 601HD to allow reading below
> where the sight-tube ends, but don't really want to have to cut a hole in
> the header tank to mount a sender, so was wondering about using another
> approach.
>
> Most fuel gauges accept some type of standard analog signal. What would be
> the problem in putting a t-fitting at the header tank outlet and putting a
> pressure transducer (to measure fuel level via the pressure head) on the
> horizontal arm of the t-fitting, and having the fuel flow out the vertical
> arm (as it usually does, a rough diagram is below)? Finding a transducer
> that spit out a 0-5V signal would be simple, as would finding a gauge that
> would accept a 0-5V signal. This would eliminate a lot of work, and
> eliminate cutting another hole in the tank (think leaks). The "sender"
> might
> be a bit more costly, but the installation would be a MUCH easier
> retrofit.
>
> My main concern is that it doesn't seem to be a "typical" solution one
> sees,
> and I wonder why that is (although searching for "fuel pressure" is
> useless
> as it is a different thing altogether). At least one fuel gauge supplier
> has
> said it should work.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Tim Perkins, VT
> N1170Q 601HD/Rotax 912UL
>
> | |
> | Header |
> | tank |
> ------------------
> |
> Pressr |
> transd --|
> |
> v
> fuel flow
> to engine
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher(at)bellsouth.net> |
Just a general comment regarding the forward tilt of the 601XL canopy. My
concern was that in the event of a roll-over or flip (for whatever reason),
it would be virtually impossible to get out of the aircraft. I spoke to
William about this and he stated that they had designed a roll-bar system
for the XL that incorporated one or two fairly strong stress points at the
top and rear of the cockpit that would impact the canopy and convincingly
shatter it while still holding the airframe off your head!
His only concern was that he needed another 8 weeks this year to be able to
work on it!
He also stated that a small axe or sharp pointed hammer could be used to
shatter the plexiglass (presumably also in flight), thus providing an escape
route or cooler air in the event the fresh air system failed.
So, I'm going to carry a sharp hammer with me when I do my testing... mostly
because I'm paranoid about things happening when not prepared. And I intend
to get one of his roll-bar kits when he finishes his design.
Scott Thatcher
601XL with WW Corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob
engineinfo(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
Thanks
Bob.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ramperf(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ea-81/ram
Bob
engineinfo(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
Hi Frank:
I have talked to Ron at ram and he is going to do the heads and add locator bushings
to the case halves.
Thanks for the info
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: ea-81/ram
Sort of.....But not quite.
Firstly we are talking about a Stratus motor. Stratus has been plagued
somewhat by valve guides falling into the combustion chamber until they
meet the tapered section of the valve where chunks of guide get broken
off and it destroys the top half of your engine.
Stratus came up with a totally inadequate solution (IM not so HO) which
simply did not work.
Stratus put this down in my case to overheating....Overheating or not
there is no way no how a valve guide should come out of a head not
matter what you do with the motor as long as it was put in right in the
first place.
This means the guide is made 1 to 2 thou bigger than the hole in the
head, the head heated, the guide chilled and the two put together.
It will never come out.
Ram performance gose one step further and (In addition to heat
shrinking) make guides with a step on the outside so it is a "belt and
braces approach". This requires a CNC lathe to do economically and Ram
was the only shop to understand the issue and decided to offer such
guides.
Ron Carr's workmanship is superb and even though it is expensive it
pales into insignificance compared to the first time you feel the
sickening torque reversal thru the airframe when your engine eats a
guide...Of course it always happens over densely populated areas, trees
or water!
Do not accept "fixes" that involve Locktite, knurling the outside of the
guide (to bring it up to size) or circlips...These are have all failed
in my engine.
I would avise you take the opportunity to check your jetting in the
carbs. Mine required upsizing quite a bit. This may have been due to
the porting job that Ron did for me as part of the head work. As I did
not check the jetting before Ron worked my heads I can't be sure if they
were set right from Stratus to begin with or not...Too small jetting
will cause hot runnig on the rich side of peak EGT which May have
contributed to the signs of overheating that Stratus say they say in my
heads.
Either way...still not an excuse to loose valve guides.
Ram Performance...You know it makes sense as does the 10% kickback they
gave me.....NOT!...:)
http://www.ramengines.com/index.html
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
momanpop(at)marshallnet.com
Subject: Zenith-List: ea-81/ram
It was recommended to have the heads done by Ram because of heating
problems. Any one know the Ram email address?
Thanks
Bob Tichy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Good move on the locator bushings...Cheap insurance!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
momanpop(at)marshallnet.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ea-81/ram
Hi Frank:
I have talked to Ron at ram and he is going to do the heads and add
locator bushings to the case halves.
Thanks for the info
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: ea-81/ram
-->
Sort of.....But not quite.
Firstly we are talking about a Stratus motor. Stratus has been plagued
somewhat by valve guides falling into the combustion chamber until they
meet the tapered section of the valve where chunks of guide get broken
off and it destroys the top half of your engine.
Stratus came up with a totally inadequate solution (IM not so HO) which
simply did not work.
Stratus put this down in my case to overheating....Overheating or not
there is no way no how a valve guide should come out of a head not
matter what you do with the motor as long as it was put in right in the
first place.
This means the guide is made 1 to 2 thou bigger than the hole in the
head, the head heated, the guide chilled and the two put together.
It will never come out.
Ram performance gose one step further and (In addition to heat
shrinking) make guides with a step on the outside so it is a "belt and
braces approach". This requires a CNC lathe to do economically and Ram
was the only shop to understand the issue and decided to offer such
guides.
Ron Carr's workmanship is superb and even though it is expensive it
pales into insignificance compared to the first time you feel the
sickening torque reversal thru the airframe when your engine eats a
guide...Of course it always happens over densely populated areas, trees
or water!
Do not accept "fixes" that involve Locktite, knurling the outside of the
guide (to bring it up to size) or circlips...These are have all failed
in my engine.
I would avise you take the opportunity to check your jetting in the
carbs. Mine required upsizing quite a bit. This may have been due to
the porting job that Ron did for me as part of the head work. As I did
not check the jetting before Ron worked my heads I can't be sure if they
were set right from Stratus to begin with or not...Too small jetting
will cause hot runnig on the rich side of peak EGT which May have
contributed to the signs of overheating that Stratus say they say in my
heads.
Either way...still not an excuse to loose valve guides.
Ram Performance...You know it makes sense as does the 10% kickback they
gave me.....NOT!...:)
http://www.ramengines.com/index.html
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
momanpop(at)marshallnet.com
Subject: Zenith-List: ea-81/ram
It was recommended to have the heads done by Ram because of heating
problems. Any one know the Ram email address?
Thanks
Bob Tichy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
All-
A few months ago someone asked a question about how to "Spoon" out a crease
in a nose skin. My posting was to forget about spooning and use a body dolly.
I still recommend this- for big creases.
On the other hand, I just encountered a little crease, maybe 3/4" long, right
in a large radius area. You just couldn't get a dolly in without hacking things
up. So, I went back to the archives and looked up a posting on spooning.
It worked well enough to where I think you won't see anything after priming,
but the whole time I was doing it, I was thinking "There's got to be something
better to use than a spoon".
Any pedal steel players out there? I thought maybe a bar would work. Drill
and tap or weld on a handle of some sort to help induce down pressure. You'd have
a nice, smooth contact area, much larger than that of a spoon.
Just a thought.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com> |
Tim--
You might try using a fuel flow meter. I've been using one on a Kitfox
for a year and once calibrated it is very accurate for current burn rate and
total fuel usage.
Check out http://www.anchorexpress.com/aa004551r.html
The Navman is the unit I'm using
George May
601XL 912--on the gear
>From: "Tim Perkins" <Timothy.Perkins(at)uvm.edu>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel level
>Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:11:05 -0500
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Am thinking about adding a fuel gauge to my 601HD to allow reading below
>where the sight-tube ends, but don't really want to have to cut a hole in
>the header tank to mount a sender, so was wondering about using another
>approach.
>
>Most fuel gauges accept some type of standard analog signal. What would be
>the problem in putting a t-fitting at the header tank outlet and putting a
>pressure transducer (to measure fuel level via the pressure head) on the
>horizontal arm of the t-fitting, and having the fuel flow out the vertical
>arm (as it usually does, a rough diagram is below)? Finding a transducer
>that spit out a 0-5V signal would be simple, as would finding a gauge that
>would accept a 0-5V signal. This would eliminate a lot of work, and
>eliminate cutting another hole in the tank (think leaks). The "sender"
>might
>be a bit more costly, but the installation would be a MUCH easier retrofit.
>
>My main concern is that it doesn't seem to be a "typical" solution one
>sees,
>and I wonder why that is (although searching for "fuel pressure" is useless
>as it is a different thing altogether). At least one fuel gauge supplier
>has
>said it should work.
>
>Any comments?
>
>Tim Perkins, VT
>N1170Q 601HD/Rotax 912UL
>
>| |
>| Header |
>| tank |
>------------------
> |
>Pressr |
>transd --|
> |
> v
> fuel flow
> to engine
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chrisoz(at)bmail.com.au |
Hi Listers,
BRS are mandatory for ultralight planes in Germany, and the Ultralight
Federation there has nice statistics.
Reasons for BRS depoyment are amongst other things: in flight collision with
other aircraft, birdstrike, structural failure after being vortext by a
fighter jet, in flight fire, engine failure over unlandable terrain
(mountains, fog covered ground, cities) and so forth.
The average time to loose control in cloud with aritficial horizon fitted and
basic PPL training is under a minute.
At $4000 for for a BRS you will not get any cheaper insurance. Being a well
trained pilot with a full panel amounts to exactly zip if somebody chops your
tail off in a crowded circuit...
My five cents worth,
paranoid Chris from Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 68.143.118.202 is neither permitted nor
denied by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=68.143.118.202; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
And don't forget: most of us have an explosive device embedded in the
steering wheel of our car :-)
But I'm still not installing a BRS in my XL. (1) The weight (75-85 lb) will
use up much of the useful payload and (2) on a metal plane duct-taping the
cables to the outside of the fuselage is ugly.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
chrisoz(at)bmail.com.au
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: BRS
Hi Listers,
BRS are mandatory for ultralight planes in Germany, and the Ultralight
Federation there has nice statistics.
Reasons for BRS depoyment are amongst other things: in flight collision with
other aircraft, birdstrike, structural failure after being vortext by a
fighter jet, in flight fire, engine failure over unlandable terrain
(mountains, fog covered ground, cities) and so forth.
The average time to loose control in cloud with aritficial horizon fitted
and basic PPL training is under a minute.
At $4000 for for a BRS you will not get any cheaper insurance. Being a well
trained pilot with a full panel amounts to exactly zip if somebody chops
your tail off in a crowded circuit...
My five cents worth,
paranoid Chris from Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET> |
> So, if you have a BRS then you have no skill as a pilot? And if you don't have
> a "solid" plane? Then what?
>
>
>
> I don't have a problem with people who feel safer with an explosive
> device mounted behind their seat that promises to save them from
> their own lack of skill as a pilot. For me, though, a solid plane
> sounds like a much better bet than an untested parachute.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Thorp <kevin(at)medamation.com> |
I guess with all things it's a cost vs. risk equation.
There's the dollar cost of a BRS (about $4000 for a 601) and the weight
cost (30 lbs + installation hardware, mounts & straps).
The risk is catastrophic structural failure or midair collisions. Maybe
engine failure over inhospitable terrain, but I think a pilot in a 601
(and definitely the 701) will survive just about any hard landing as
long as he's flying the plane all the way down.
It seems a lot of fatalities are the result of engine failures, followed
by a stall/spin. Would a BRS help in that situation? Would the
additional weight (towards the rear CG) make a stall/spin more likely?
Could the $4000 be better spent on a more reliable engine & fuel
system? Or more pilot training?
Interesting debate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)earthlink.net> |
We had an incident locally a few weeks ago that would have benefited from a
BRS, provided that the passenger knew how to operate it. Unofficial reports
are an instructor and student on a first or second lesson when up and the
instructor became incapacitated. I don't think the student knew how to
operate the radio and only had minimal knowledge of how to fly the plane.
The student flew around awhile until she finally crashed. The plane caught
fire seriously burning her. I think her chances would have been better with
the BRS assuming she knew how to deploy it.
I don't have a BRS, but this discussion has me wondering if I should get
one. I fly with my disabled, non pilot wife. She has a hard time getting in
and out without assistance. Her left hand is mostly paralyzed, so teaching
her to fly from the right seat is not likely. I've always said I wouldn't
bail out or use a BRS unless there was a structural failure. I would take
my chances trying to land it regardless of the terrain. I guess everyone
needs to analyze their own needs.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BRS / Cirrus |
At 23:27 02-11-05, you wrote:
> autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
> I noticed a
>Cirrus listed a couple of times - once with a structural failure
>(loss of aileron). This tells me several things about the Cirrus
That particular Cirrus had gone into the shop, and had a service bulletin
on the aileron completed, but the aileron was not reinstalled properly. It
ended up hanging off the aircraft by one hinge. Maintenance error turned a
small problem into a large one.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20021008X05290&ntsbno=FTW03LA005&akey=1
>Oh well, this is starting to be more of a "Religious" discussion than
>a practical one.
"Amen."
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 62 Msgs - 11/02/05 |
>
>
> The average time to loose control in cloud with aritficial horizon fitted
> and basic PPL training is under a minute.
>
> At $4000 for for a BRS you will not get any cheaper insurance. Being a
> well
> trained pilot with a full panel amounts to exactly zip if somebody chops
> your tail off in a crowded circuit...
>
I don't know exactly where that "under a minute" statistic came from but In
the US training without reference to outside of the aircraft is required for
a Private certificate.
If any pilot spends that same $4000 on additional IFR and unusual attitude
recovery training they would be much better off in 99.9% of the situations.
Add that the BRS would use virtually all of the cargo capacity of the 601XL
and the answer seems clear to me.
GigG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Samm Munn" <heliav8r(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Emergency Escape Hammer |
Looking for an emergency escape tool? I found this at Harborfreight.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber46241
Not bad for only $5.99!
Samm
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine
de St-Exup=E9ry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Log, Rivet Spacing Template, 2 x 2 Tubes |
Dave- I used Microsoft Word to record my XL build and would be glad to
share it with you, however, Its very long, includes pictures so isn't
conducive to e-mailing. I think that any log in any format you like is
going to be OK with any inspector. My DAR spent all of 2 minutes looking at
mine. Just jot down what you did each work session, Take lots of pictures
of your work, including before closing pictures of the wings, fuselage etc.
If you have a Tech Advisor from your local EAA chapter, have his reports
included in your log.
Format wise, I just centered the date for each entry and wrote a paragraph
or so about what I did. I also included e-mails back to Nick with questions
I had and answers he gave me. I Inserted pictures showing my work that I
had just described. I also kept a running account of the time I worked on
the project. I didn't keep a record of thinking time, and hours people
helped. I did mention their names in my narrative though. Yes, if you have
the 4' 2x2 tubes. I had four and used them from time to time. I never used
a spacing template. I got several flat sticks and marked them with the
spacings. One side of one I'd lay out 40 mm turn it over and layed out 30mm
etc. Worked fine. Hope this helps
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Emergency Escape Hammer |
Sam- that number comes up ":not valid". Please check it out. Thanks Al
Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Harris (Pumpkin Man)" <pumpkin_man(at)autoinsanity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency Escape Hammer |
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46241
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Builder's Log, Rivet Spacing Template, 2 x 2 Tubes |
I made my own rivet spacing tool. It was a piece of elastic with evenly
spaced lines drawn on it. If you want 40 mm spacing, you just streach it so
that the lines are 40 mm apart.
I was talking to the guy from Kitlog Pro while I was at Copperstate and he
says he now has a web hosting for users of the program.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
> I am building a 601 XL from a complete airframe kit. Will I need to do
any
> rivet spacing, or will all pilot holes be pre-drilled? My reason for
asking
> is so that I know whether or not it is worth purchasing a rivet spacing
> template, (we really found it handy when using it at the workshop).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Log, Rivet Spacing Template, 2 x 2 Tubes |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Builder's Log, Rivet Spacing Template, 2 x 2 Tubes
>
Dave-
Yes to both.
1. A blind man can literally tell the difference between rivets laid out
with a good spacer and those without. You will, too.
Don't rely on the prepunched holes. Force yourself to verify each kit part
to print before using it. No telling when you'll get an HD part in an XL kit
(Or some other mutation). I speak from painful experience.
2. I found a half-dozen 4' pieces of 4"x4" blocking at a local sawmill I
got for nothing because they were either too knotty or too checked to use.
Two were good enough for use as standoffs, the others I burnt in my
woodstove. I liked the clearance of the 4x4's, 6x6's would be even better!
Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Samm Munn" <heliav8r(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency Escape Hammer |
>
> That's designed for breaking out the safety glass in a car. Good for your
> automotive emergency kit. I'm not sure how effective it would be on the
> canopy of an airplane. I think a hatchet might be more effective.
Going by my personal experience in the AH-1G Attack Helicopter (which
originally came equipped with a breakout tool before they changed to
explosive cord outlining the canopy), I think it would work very well. BTW,
after a few years, they put the breakout tool BACK just in case the
explosive cord failed!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 68.143.118.202 is neither permitted nor
denied by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=68.143.118.202; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Emergency Escape Hammer |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
Why not just use a light saber?
http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber.htm
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Samm Munn
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Emergency Escape Hammer
> -->
>
> That's designed for breaking out the safety glass in a car. Good for
> your automotive emergency kit. I'm not sure how effective it would be
> on the canopy of an airplane. I think a hatchet might be more effective.
Going by my personal experience in the AH-1G Attack Helicopter (which
originally came equipped with a breakout tool before they changed to
explosive cord outlining the canopy), I think it would work very well. BTW,
after a few years, they put the breakout tool BACK just in case the
explosive cord failed!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Fredricks <flyingfox(at)copper.net> |
The real issue with parachutes has little to do with the parachute and a lot
more to do with the procedure for using them.
I fly helicopters and I don't fear them, a very irrational thing to fear a
helicopter if you know how they work and what makes them fly.
In the military there are very specific and drilled procedures for departing
an aircraft. If you take off in an F-18 off a carrier and are say 500 feet
AGL when both engines shut down, you will eject. There is no maybe, it is
just the way it is. There are countless examples of this and pilots know
that there is only one option.
In an aircraft equipped with a BRS chute you have essentially created the
equivalent of a civilian ejection seat. But unless a pilot drills on when to
use it, it will not be very effective and frankly controversial.
Not all structural failures require pulling a handle. If you have control of
the aircraft then fly it til you lose control or determine that a safe
landing cannot be made. If you have no control, pull the handle sooner
rather than later.
An engine fire requires practiced troubleshooting but if this quickly yields
no results, there might be good profiles for pulling the chute.
IMC if you are in control fly if you depart, pull the chute.
The biggest issue is do BRS pilots practice and drill procedure. There can
be a lot of pressure to try and "Save" and aircraft, especially one that you
spent a long time building so you really need to drill into rote reaction
for it to be effective.
Todd
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
POWERED BY MAC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Cross" <haselcheck(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: HDS Wing Ribs and Wing Plans |
Listers / Builders....I have a complete set of 8 front and 8 rear wing ribs for
Zenith Zodiac CH601 HDS wings along with wing plans for sale...If you are interested
or if you anyone who would be interested, please contact me off direct
(off list)...
Regards,
Randy Cross
C-GMEO
haselcheck(at)hsfx.ca
Regards,
Randy Cross
This message (including any attachments) contains information intended for a specific
individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended
recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution
of this message, or the taking of action based on it is strictly prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BSR considerations |
I am with Ron on the subject of the BSR. Save the money and install the most
reliable engine on the market. Save the work of installing a "bomb" in the
back seat and use that time to build the most perfectly balanced and
structurally sound airframe that you can. Save the worry about something going
wrong and
spend that energy hunting down rides in other fellow's HDS' & XLs so that when
you get yours up your safe and secure in the knowledge that your skill can
rise sufficiently to save your butt. Course that's just the way I look at it.
Also, I bought a whole bunch more life insurance just in case I screw up
somewhere in all of the about, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Folding bike for the Zenith 601HDS |
| From: | charles.long(at)gm.com |
29, 2005) at 11/04/2005 08:58:09 AM
Had a great experience with my Zodie Rocket over the weekend. Flew up
to Purdue to visit my son. It's just inside my 35 NM flight radius. I
have this cool new folding bike my wife is getting me for Christmas and
since the weather was so nice, I talked her into letting me use it (please,
just this once!) to go riding with my son. It was a little risky ordering
it because it has full size 26" wheels. I calculated it would fit in the
plane, but you know how it is with complicated shapes - never know for sure
until you try. The good news was that although a snug fit, I was able to
fit it nicely into the baggage compartment after removing the seat, handle
bars, and front wheel. A couple bungie cords and I was ready to go! When
I arrived, a 5 minute setup and Nick and I were ready for some serious bike
riding around campus. Thought some of you might have toyed with the same
idea so here is some info: Purchased Bike off of E-bay for $150 plus $30
shipping. 33.5 lb weight with full suspension & 18 speeds. Frame is made
of 6061T6 aluminum (sound familiar?). Found out after it arrived that it
is a Chinese import (like so many things these days). Rides very nice with
the full size wheels. If the link below doesn't work, just search on
YOUPAL. Happy flying everyone!
Chuck
Z601HDS
N601LE
36.5 hr TT
3 1/2 hrs to go!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALLOY-YOUPAL-26-Folding-Bike-Full-Suspension-SHIMANO_W0QQitemZ7193851760QQcategoryZ98083QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Kevin:
I'm just catching up on some emails and noticed all the banter on BRS, etc. Here's
a photo of Mike Sinclair's beautiful 701 from my website:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/MikeSinclair/MikeSinclairRedo.jpg
You can see his BRS behind the seats. He has had it since the first flight from
what I understand. Mike is very talented and has built a great airplane. You
can see a few more photos of Betty Boop here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/MikeSinclair/MikeSinclair.html
Happy Building,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
kevinbonds wrote:
Mike
Glad you are OK. Sounds like you are the most qualified to enter this
debate. Did you have a BRS on board or did you mean that you wished you did
(you said "wish I had used" implying that you had it available)? I would be
interested to hear more. You may be the most qualified to change my mind
(I'm currently a NO to the BRS).
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures |
| From: | <jeffglass(at)starband.net> |
Here's a stupid one... I just replaced all three tires and tubes on my
HDS. I used the standard Namco tires, 4.80-8, with tubes, and I put 40
lbs. of pressure in each tire. When I flew it this AM it felt like I was
landing on a couple of bricks. I talked to Roger and he said 35-40 lbs.
sounded about right, but just go for what feels good to you. OK! Tell
me, what feels good to you? BTW, I normally fly close to or at gross
weight.
Any thoughts on proper pressures with winter coming on?
Thanks,
Jeff Glasserow
CH 601 HDS
N6384E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Thorp <kevin(at)medamation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Folding bike for the Zenith 601HDS |
Interesting report, Chuck.
I've always thought planes & bikes were a great combo. It's good to get
those legs moving after a couple hours in the cockpit. And with a bike
you can explore the area beyond your destination airport. Sometimes
that $100 hamburger isn't within walking distance.
My interest is finding a kitplane that can carry two folding bikes.
I've seen some 20" bikes that handled well and weigh less than 25 lbs.
The folded dimensions are 11" x 22" x 33". Unfortunately two are
probably not going to fit in a 601 or 701. Definitely no problem in the
801.
One last note about bicycling - wear a helmet! As with flying, it can
be lethal to the unprepared.
Kevin Thorp
Charleston, SC
charles.long(at)gm.com wrote:
>
>
> Had a great experience with my Zodie Rocket over the weekend. Flew up
>to Purdue to visit my son. It's just inside my 35 NM flight radius. I
>have this cool new folding bike my wife is getting me for Christmas and
>since the weather was so nice, I talked her into letting me use it (please,
>just this once!) to go riding with my son. It was a little risky ordering
>it because it has full size 26" wheels. I calculated it would fit in the
>plane, but you know how it is with complicated shapes - never know for sure
>until you try. The good news was that although a snug fit, I was able to
>fit it nicely into the baggage compartment after removing the seat, handle
>bars, and front wheel. A couple bungie cords and I was ready to go! When
>I arrived, a 5 minute setup and Nick and I were ready for some serious bike
>riding around campus. Thought some of you might have toyed with the same
>idea so here is some info: Purchased Bike off of E-bay for $150 plus $30
>shipping. 33.5 lb weight with full suspension & 18 speeds. Frame is made
>of 6061T6 aluminum (sound familiar?). Found out after it arrived that it
>is a Chinese import (like so many things these days). Rides very nice with
>the full size wheels. If the link below doesn't work, just search on
>YOUPAL. Happy flying everyone!
>
>Chuck
>Z601HDS
>N601LE
>36.5 hr TT
>3 1/2 hrs to go!
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ALLOY-YOUPAL-26-Folding-Bike-Full-Suspension-SHIMANO_W0QQitemZ7193851760QQcategoryZ98083QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures |
Chris Heinz says "inflate so that the tire is one third depressed". About
25 lbs for me.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pumpman111(at)aol.com |
I fully trust the Zodiac designs, but I am planning to install the BRS chute as
additional insurance. In our area of the midwest (Fort Wayne, IN) the most likely
need to deploy an emergency chute would be a bird strike.
We have a resident population of about 1500 canada geese that circle the city each
day. Some local accidents have been due to bird strikes, and they can make
an aircraft totally unflyable. I want an alternate way to save my butt if needed!
At Oshkosh, Chip Irwin said that they mount the BRS chute in front of the panel,
deploying through a panel on the right side of the fuselage. This location is
good for weight & balance and saves baggage area. His company sells the BRS
chutes, cables and installation instructions for the Zodiac 601 series. From what
I have seen in three years of evaluation, this is a superior installation
location.
Best Regards,
Larry Zepp
601XL builder, just starting, J3300 with BRS chute
Pres. EAA Chapter 2
EAA Chapter 2 Promotes Sport Aviation and Aeronautical Education in Northeastern
Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Jeffries <vair601(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
Rusty,
I haven't rang in on this yet however just one more note to throw at ya. My friend
and I were at Oshkosh this year as usual and opted to sit in the 601 on display.
I'm 5'11" and Alan is 6'2", he was wearing an EAA Panama grass hat which
towers another 4" above his stature. Anyway he went to remove his hat and
Matt Townsend told him to leave it on and there was 2" of clearance to the canopy.
Hope that helps, Bill Jeffries
Rusty <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
Thanks very much for all the comments on this. I think I'm convinced that
headroom either won't be an issue, or at will as least be manageable with
some minor modifications to the canopy height, or seat pan.
BTW, extra credit points go to Bill for the link to the dimension page. I
saw this page a couple weeks ago, but I was looking at all sorts of planes
at the time. Recently, I tried to find it on the Zenith page, but couldn't.
Eventually, I became convinced that it must have been for some other plane.
Nice to find out I didn't imagine the page :-)
I've also located an 85% complete XL in Pensacola. I haven't talked to the
builder yet, but found out about it from a local Sonex builder who I visited
recently. I'll be trying to get by to see the local XL project in the near
future, then I guess I can make a real decision.
Thanks again,
Rusty (fighting the temptation to build another RV-8)
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Alberti" <daberti(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures |
I keep mine at 30.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
Tell me, what feels good to you? BTW, I normally fly close to or at gross
weight.
Any thoughts on proper pressures with winter coming on?
Thanks,
Jeff Glasserow
CH 601 HDS
N6384E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo Gates" <leogates(at)allvantage.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures |
I use 20 lbs for mains and 25 lbs on the tail wheel for our somewhat bumpy
grass strip.
Leo Gates
601HDS - also 912
-------Original Message-------
From: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 11/04/05 18:41:00
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures
Chris Heinz says "inflate so that the tire is one third depressed". About
25 lbs for me.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> My interest is finding a kitplane that can carry two folding bikes.
> I've seen some 20" bikes that handled well and weigh less than 25 lbs.
> The folded dimensions are 11" x 22" x 33". Unfortunately two are
> probably not going to fit in a 601 or 701. Definitely no problem in the
> 801.
I would also like to carry two folding bikes, so I found the report
interesting. I wonder if there's a way to construct a belly pod that would
do the trick for at least one bike - preferrably both. Belly pods are
popular items in many bush/mission planes. Has anyone ever seen such a
thing added to a 601? OR has anyone found a way to fit 2 bikes in the wing
lockers? OR found a way to hide a second bike inside the fuselage?
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures |
Me too. I just replaced my tires and the old ones are worn smooth all across
the tread width.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures
>
> Chris Heinz says "inflate so that the tire is one third depressed". About
> 25 lbs for me.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: 601XL Brake Problems |
Bill,
Did you ever check these Grove suggestions out on your airplane? I'm
reasonably sure my pushrod travels all the way in the cylinder, but I
haven't really taken a good look at it...
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
------------------------------------------
From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 20, 2005
Subject: 601XL Brake Problems
Lance and other Thread Friends, on the brakes making a ton of
noise I finally
spoke with a tech support fellow from Grove, named Robbie, nice
guy. After
going over the particulars he concluded that the problem was
most likely in the
master cylinders. Especially because the noise returned
immediately after
letting up on the peddle pressure. He had two suggestions:
First, see if the vent
holes at the top of the puck are open (or even there) as air is
supposed to
come in above the fluid in the puck and without a vent hole of
some type the
system will not relax. Second, check to see if the push rod from
the master
cylinders travels all the way up as it is supposed to open a
release valve that
will allow the calipers to remain near the disc so rattle is
none existent or
minimal. Have not checked either solution yet, but will tomorrow
and I will
report, best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Thorp <kevin(at)medamation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Folding Bike & belly pod |
According to the Zenith web site the HD wing lockers are 20" x 20" x
10". Way too small for a folding bike. I assume the wing lockers for
the XL aren't as deep.
I've never heard of a belly pod on a 601. It would help keep the CG
within range.
Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
>
>
>>My interest is finding a kitplane that can carry two folding bikes.
>>I've seen some 20" bikes that handled well and weigh less than 25 lbs.
>>The folded dimensions are 11" x 22" x 33". Unfortunately two are
>>probably not going to fit in a 601 or 701. Definitely no problem in the
>>801.
>>
>>
>
>I would also like to carry two folding bikes, so I found the report
>interesting. I wonder if there's a way to construct a belly pod that would
>do the trick for at least one bike - preferrably both. Belly pods are
>popular items in many bush/mission planes. Has anyone ever seen such a
>thing added to a 601? OR has anyone found a way to fit 2 bikes in the wing
>lockers? OR found a way to hide a second bike inside the fuselage?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
All-
A brief article in today's paper reports a mid-air between a CH601 (No other
model information) and a C-172 in New Jersey. The 601 pilot was killed, the
C-172 pilot made a successful emergency landing. Pilot of the 601 is reported
as Jeffrey L. Glasserow. Anyone out there have more than 2 paragraph's worth of
information?
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: CH 601 HDS Tire Pressures |
Jeff, When we first flew my XL in Junes I had all the tires (5.00s) pumped to
28 pounds. 26 flights later I check the pressure and it's down to only 4
pounds in the mains and 11 pounds in the front. It did tend to waddle when I
taxied. Pumped in 22 pounds and it lands and feels like a brick, but it does not
waddle, so as our good friends Roger would say 'pumped it 'til it feels good
to you' I guess. FWIW, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
A quick look at the Site shows that Jeff bought a completed 601HDS early in
the year. He had some maintenance done and started flying it a few months
ago. He appeared to be a contributor to the List as he is linked to 80
e-mails.
God Bless Him,
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>
>
> All-
> A brief article in today's paper reports a mid-air between a CH601 (No
> other model information) and a C-172 in New Jersey. The 601 pilot was
> killed, the C-172 pilot made a successful emergency landing. Pilot of the
> 601 is reported as Jeffrey L. Glasserow. Anyone out there have more than 2
> paragraph's worth of information?
> Bill
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: 601XL Brake Problems |
Lance, good to hear from you. I have continued the good brake fight, but must
report a great lack of success. As Ronnie Grove mentioned I checked the plug
opening in the top of each master cycilender and they were both open. I
checked the travel and the shaft is traveling north as far as it can uponn release
so the problem does not seem to be there. I took the brakes apart this
weekend, rechecked eveything and I used an adhesive called Super Tact to the back
of
the inter pad and the caliper cycilder face to see if that would illiminate
the rattle, but it does'nt. The only thing that helps is my new Lightspeed 20
XLs headset with ANR, turn it on and those dammed old brake noises go away,
Ha. Another way to fix a problem, Lance if you can figure out what's wrong
please let me know, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Free at last! |
Bill, good for you fellow !!! We have all suffered a bout of "throw this
dammed thing in the trash" flu, but let me tell you another story. Yesterday
morning here in Georgia opened with warm blue sky and light breezes. After a
wonderful breakfast with my lovely trophy wife I drove to the airport. I parked
the
car and opened the hanger doors and inside I was greeted by my pretty baby. I
swear I heard her say "gas be up big boy and I'll give you another ride of a
life time" Well, I'm not too bright, but as a red blooded American I know sex
and quick as a bunny the fuel truck was there and gone. I pulled her out into
the sun light and she just sparkled with anticipation. After the normal
foreplay with the dipstick and fluids I opened the hatch and climbed on board,
when the engine caught it was like a promise that this ride would really be
pleasure. I taxied onto the strip and pushed firmly on the throttle and zip she
rushed forward in an instant and I had to really concentrate to keep everything
aligned straight down the middle. At 70 I tugged in the stick between my legs
and was rewarded by her literally leaping into the air. As she climbed at 1100
ft per minute @ 100 mph I knew that she had not lied to me and once we
reached the pinnacle of the climb at 5000 feet and leveled off, the next 2.4 hour
was more continued pleasure and the satisfaction I had dreamed of and worked for
all those years. Yes Bill, you are making good progress and soon, sooner than
you think, she will be completed, fast, smooth, beautiful, sexy and
completely yours. Yes, yours to have your way with. Enjoy the ride, Best regards,
Bill
of Georgia N505WP, 601XL-3300w/DC (30 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Jeff Glasserow: Eulogy |
I was stunned this morning when I read the newspaper and read of my friend's
death. Even as I write this now, it doesn't seem possible. His last
posting to this list was last week. I am deeply saddened by his loss.
Jeff and I met on this list and became friends about a year ago, and we both
decided to join EAA chapter 643 in the Pittstown area, his hometown (I
wasn't happy with my original EAA chapter). He and I flew a few times
together and shared a few meals over the past year, and he has visited my
project many times. Jeff was an experienced pilot who had let his medical
lapse and was reintroduced to flying as a Sport Pilot, but his piloting
skills were good.
He purchased his already flying HDS from another builder and then
subsequently had the plane thoroughly gone over by a local A&P. He had
several small things taken care of, such as rusty landing gear, and had the
seat pan lowered. After the plane came out of the shop, Jeff flew it almost
every week, sometimes several times a week. He was convinced that the plane
flew nose high and then he lowered the ailerons by a fraction of a turn or
two, and that seemed to solve his problem. I must say, when I flew with
him, I never saw the problem. He even used my tail template to check the
angle of incidence of the stabilizer, and found no problem. In any case, I
had looked over his plane many times, and I can say, that was a mechanically
sound machine. No problems. The 235 engine would start on 2 or 3 blades of
his three-blade prop and flew like a classic HDS. I would doubt seriously
if there was a mechanical problem with the plane.
Jeff's daughter (who I never met) was planning to take lessons in the plane,
and she flew with him more frequently than I did. I'm glad she wasn't
involved in the accident. (If Jeff's daughter ever reads this: Your dad was
a good man and he loved you. He was very proud of you.)
I guess this should just serve as a reminder for us to look out the window
more and scan all around the plane as we look. Until we hear from the NTSB,
this is about all I think we can learn.
Goodbye Jeff. I'll miss you.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
Attending "Corvair College" next week.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
John:
I have found a lot of information here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from 1980). There
are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were of the "XL" variety.
Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps
not a fair comparison, but interesting.
Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
Good questions and welcome aboard.
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
John Hines wrote:
I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
history for the 601 series?
John Hines
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)AOL.COM |
NTSB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Parachutes kill. |
Steve, don't worry about your typing. The fact that your trying at all is a
tribute to your character. And most of us guys on the thread can't spell the
dammed words correctly anyway, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I think it is a fair comparison in a way...As RVs are by far the most
prolific experimental out there. There is also the "performance"
factor....I.e do higher performance aircraft have more accidents and are
those more serious than lower performance A/C?
It is likely that RV's do more cross country work than 601's. As an
annecdote, the Arlington fly in usually has two to three 601's on a good
weather year...I stopped couning RV's at over 50 of them on the same
year. So either way you'll see more RV's in one place at any one time,
so either there are a lot more of them (true) and I bet they are willing
to travel further.
A lot more RV's are IFR equipped too so that may also have a bearing on
the number of accidents.
Bottom line, I just hope none of us become a statistic.
Frank 601HDS 383 hours
RV7A project
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
John:
I have found a lot of information here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from
1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were
of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages
of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but interesting.
Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
Good questions and welcome aboard.
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
John Hines wrote:
I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
history for the 601 series?
John Hines
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Funeral Arrangements for Jeff Glasserow |
Jeff Glasserow's funeral will be tomorrow at 10:30 a.m. at Holcombe-Fisher
funeral home in Flemington, New Jersey:
http://www.holcombefisher.com/
Jeff's obituary is here:
http://www.holcombefisher.com/obits/obit.cfm?obitid=491
They have online condolances if you are interested.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "P.H. Raker" <n556p(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Folding bike for the Zenith 601HDS |
Hey, Chuck,
That sounds pretty good. I don't know how you managed to get it
in there. I looked at several types of folders, and very few of them
would fit very well. I had a special problem, because I need to fit 2
bikes in there so I have wheels for my flying partner too.
What I finally found that fits quite well with a bit of room left
over is a bike called a Brompton. It has only 16" wheels but rides
very well on almost all surfaces. Many folders have frames that flex a
lot as one pedals; this one is really solid. It has rear suspension,
folds/unfolds in only about 15 seconds. Yes, you read that correctly.
Pull it out of the baggage compartment and in about 15 seconds it'll be
completely ready to ride. Nothing need be removed and reinstalled.
The bike's made in England (the "mecca" of folding bikes). It's a bit
expensive but I couldn't find any other that rides nearly as well that
can fit 2 of them in a CH-601.
Info on them and ordering info can be seen at www.foldabikes.com
or www.bromptonbikes.co.uk
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
> It was a little risky ordering it because it has full size 26"
> wheels. I calculated it would fit in the plane, but you know how it
> is with complicated shapes - never know for sure until you try. The
> good news was that although a snug fit, I was able to fit it nicely
> into the baggage compartment after removing the seat, handle bars,
> and front wheel. A couple bungie cords and I was ready to go!
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Zenith- 601 crash NY Times article |
| From: | "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
Two small aircraft clipped each other in midair yesterday in the sunny,
nearly windless skies over western New Jersey, causing one plane to
drop nose first into a field of trees, killing the pilot, the state
police said.
The other pilot landed safely, and there were no other reported
casualties.
The police identified the dead pilot as Jeffrey L. Glasserow, 55, of
Pittstown, N.J.
The other pilot is James P. Walter, 56, of Kintersville, Pa..
Sgt. Stephen Jones said a telephone call to 911 at 11:40 a.m. reported
that an aircraft was in trouble near the township of Pohatcong, near
Phillipsburg, more than 50 miles northwest of Trenton.
A police helicopter located the crash site, on a 90-acre farm near
Interstate 78 and about three miles from the Delaware River. .
"We have not disturbed the crash site," Sergeant Jones said, because
the police were awaiting investigators from the state's Division of
Aeronautics.
The crashed plane was a crumpled, unrecognizable piece of white metal.
The pilot did not appear to have attempted a landing and simply dropped
through the treetops, Sergeant Jones said.
Ron Harbist, an investigator at the scene from the Aeronautics
Division, said later that the pilot was "probably out of control when
he hit; he came in at a steep angle."
He said the plane, a Zodiac 601 built from a kit, is registered with
the Federal Aviation Administration and is listed as "experimental."
Arlene Murray, a spokeswoman for the Eastern Region office of the
F.A.A., said the two planes were flying under "visual flight rules" and
were not communicating with air traffic controllers.
"They clipped each other somehow, is what I understand," she said.
It was not clear whether they were flying past each other or parallel
in the same direction.
Ms. Murray said the crashed plane was owned by All-Media Associates
Inc. of Port Washington, on Long Island. A telephone number could not
be found for the company.
The intact plane, a Cessna 172 single engine, was minimally damaged,
Ms. Murray said, and is owned by Sportaviation Inc. of Pipersville, Pa.
Ashar Husain, the owner of Sport Aviation, a flight school in Erwinna,
Pa., in Bucks County, where the plane had taken off, said the surviving
pilot was an experienced flier and regular customer who rented planes.
Nate Schweber contributed reporting for this report.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that several were
brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in learning what engines
were being used on the airplanes that went down due to engine failure. Any idea
how one would go about finding that information?
Ed
>
> From: N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com>
> Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 10:48:02 EST
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>
>
> John:
>
> I have found a lot of information here:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>
> A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from 1980). There
are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were of the "XL" variety.
Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps
not a fair comparison, but interesting.
>
> Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>
> Good questions and welcome aboard.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL / Corvair
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>
> John Hines wrote:
>
> I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
> a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
> history for the 601 series?
>
> John Hines
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Parachutes kill. |
Steve:
Sorry to hear you had a stroke. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Al (F-4 gunner) Massey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 701 Babbage Area Ideas |
Are there any useful ideas for building into the baggage area, things that
have worked out well, or things that you wish were there now?
My 701 is at the stage where features can be added easily. So far just a few
hard points for straps.
Mine is the large baggage area, open front, is there a good way to close it
up?
Jerry, CH 701 SP about 85%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/7/2005 2:12:47 PM Central Standard Time,
dredmoody(at)cox.net writes:
Zenith-List message posted by:
I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that several
were brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in learning what
engines were being used on the airplanes that went down due to engine failure.
Any
idea how one would go about finding that information?
Ed
Wonder if Transport Canada has such info? Do they monitor the Zenith aircraft
sold to the public there?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Thorp <kevin(at)medamation.com> |
| Subject: | safety - RVs vs Zodiac XL |
One thing I noticed about the RV accident data: So far no RV-9s have had
a fatal accident. Could be because it's a new design. Or because it's
stall speed is relatively low compared to the rest of the RV line (but
not as low as the Zodiac).
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>I think it is a fair comparison in a way...As RVs are by far the most
>prolific experimental out there. There is also the "performance"
>factor....I.e do higher performance aircraft have more accidents and are
>those more serious than lower performance A/C?
>
>It is likely that RV's do more cross country work than 601's. As an
>annecdote, the Arlington fly in usually has two to three 601's on a good
>weather year...I stopped couning RV's at over 50 of them on the same
>year. So either way you'll see more RV's in one place at any one time,
>so either there are a lot more of them (true) and I bet they are willing
>to travel further.
>
>A lot more RV's are IFR equipped too so that may also have a bearing on
>the number of accidents.
>
>Bottom line, I just hope none of us become a statistic.
>
>Frank 601HDS 383 hours
>RV7A project
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>
>
>John:
>
>I have found a lot of information here:
>
>http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>
>A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from
>1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were
>of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages
>of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but interesting.
>
>Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>
>Good questions and welcome aboard.
>
>Scott Laughlin
>601XL / Corvair
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>
>John Hines wrote:
>
>I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
>a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
>history for the 601 series?
>
>John Hines
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: safety - RVs vs Zodiac XL |
> One thing I noticed about the RV accident data: So
> far no RV-9s have had
> a fatal accident.
Kevin...
This is not true...see below link. Note that the
first RV-9A (the yellow aircraft as seen here):
http://www.pfabristol.flyer.co.uk/pics/RV9A.jpg
was registered as an "RV-6T" with the FAA:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X20806&key=1
DJV
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Valentine <mgvalentine(at)gmail.com> |
I am installing my elevator hinge. I have already attached it to the stab,
so this question may be too late, but I am curious about how tight one can
install it to the front spar/fold of the elevator. If you put the hinge snug
against the curve of the spar, won't it rub as it moves? More importantly,
perhaps, will it rub (and maybe wear) in a way that should be avoided? I am
only talking about the hinge itself rubbing (or the half of the hinge that
is riveted to the stab), not the actual elevator hitting or rubbing.
Thanks, Michael Valentine
Please copy your reply to me off list - I only get the digest version of the
list once a day!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <lrm01(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Babbage Area Ideas |
There is a couple of scratch 701 builders in Hot Springs, Arkansas who put a
divider half way back in the baggage area and made an outside access door.
Looks goods and a good place to carry stinky stuff like funnels, oil can and
even an extra gas can.
I used eight eye-bolts and plan to getting a net of some sort. But I will
still have the problem of carrying my test bottle and water separator funnel
inside the cabin because they smell like gas. So I will at some time build
a belly pod.
Just a little update on my own plane status. First I am waiting on the air
brush work on and cowling. And second I can't seem to get a wing tank gas
leak stopped. I accidentally drilled a hole of two in my plastic tanks and
no matter what I use, epoxy, plastic repair or whatever, they always seem to
start leading again, so, I am going to pull all four tanks and make my own
fiberglass ones. I also had one of the poly lines split, so I am
re-plumbing the entire aircraft fuel lines with high pressure fuel injection
line. I am going to fix it once and far all.
The engine runs great, I have 3 hours on it with no problems.
Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: <JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Babbage Area Ideas
>
> Are there any useful ideas for building into the baggage area, things that
> have worked out well, or things that you wish were there now?
>
> My 701 is at the stage where features can be added easily. So far just a
> few
> hard points for straps.
>
> Mine is the large baggage area, open front, is there a good way to close
> it
> up?
>
> Jerry, CH 701 SP about 85%
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Safety / Wives??? |
| From: | "John Hines" <John.Hines(at)craftontull.com> |
I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife
that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very
nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I
don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I
almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and
maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint
cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year
old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the
biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will
cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like
building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I
built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that.
She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot
and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is
tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the
Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely
on board?
John Hines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dabusmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Babbage Area Ideas |
Jerry
I really like the glove box Van's sells for around $30. It is really nice.
All predrilled. Worth the money. Eventually I plan to put one on the aft side
of the rear bulkhead of my baggage compartment. The door on the outside and
the hinge fwd. I would like a place for sump tool and fuel stick. I really like
the full baggage area for camping. It really is surprising how much room
there is.
Dave Smith
N701XL 912ULS 500Hrs
PS. Replaced my rubber engine mounts. They were worn more than I expected.
Still solid with no cracking, but pretty well hammered stiff. I think 500hrs is
all we can expect from these.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Safety / Wives??? |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
This can be one of the most difficult things to in building an airplane.
Firstly the word "experimental" is simply a class of certification. It
of course has nothing to do with the safety of the airplane (which is
largly up to you dear builder, at least if you stray from the plans).
Any airplane that crashes is investigated with the same vigour by the
NTSB no matter what its got written on the side. If there was a
fundamental flaw both the FAA and NTSB would be all over it.
Note the unexplained wing spar failure of the first RV8. There was one
hell of a lot of attention both from prospective builders and the feds
until it was put down to overloading by some rather "spirited" flying.
Economics alone, the homebuilt industry is maturing fast and in the
inernet age bad news travels quickly. If the design had a fundamental
flaw it would be known about and Zenith has a long track record with
this design.
Much of the (small) risk is really due to the average Joe building the
airplane. In other words there are no controls and nothing to stop
someone using PVC covered wire or try sucking 82 octane mogas with an
uncooled engine driven pump only from the wing tanks (AKA Russian
roulette..:). Seems to me the big risks are more to do with lack of
education of the builder/assembler than the airframe itself.
I think if you can convince your Wife that you intend to seek
knowledgable assistance and do the appropriate research you can minimise
these risks, maybe that will bring her around.
You might want to point out that Space Ship one was also registered as
an experimental. The fact there are now more experimentals being built
than certified airplanes would say there must be a good reason to go
Experimental.
One thing I would urge (and this is just a personal position) is really
try to get her on board and if you can't consider NOT building an
airplane right now. I say this because airplane building is an all
consuming hobby...Or it is if you ever want to get it finished.
To give you an idea, I don't work Fridays and my Wife likes to work in
the yard Saturdays...So I get roughly two days a week to work on my
current project. Allowing life to get in the way (like it always does) I
will have managed about 800 hours or so in a full year to work on this
thing. I am estimating about 1200 to finish and My lovely Wife is very
supportive but is right on the edge of having a hard time with my
project.
If yours is starting off where my Wife is now you may have some serious
strife in a year from now.
As A guide it took me 950hours from crate to flying my 601 HDS.
Good luck John..And remember, Experimental does not mean "experiment"!!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines
Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
-->
I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife
that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very
nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I
don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I
almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and
maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint
cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year
old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the
biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will
cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like
building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I
built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that.
She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot
and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is
tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the
Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely
on board?
John Hines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Im glad you brought this topic. Im in a similar
situation with my wife, she only have confidence in
commercial aviation. So far I have her consent but not
necessarily her support. I think it is easier for
those who where already involved in aviation by the
time they got married, not my case. My hope is time,
during the years it will take to build the plane I
hope she get a better understanding of the risk
involved and get motivated. We have no kids and that
helps a lot. I would like to hear about how others are
doing.
I have to confess that if the roles where reversed -
she going for a perceived dangerous sport I would be
acting very much like her.
William Dominguez
Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL/Corvair
Working on shop
--- John Hines wrote:
>
>
> I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has
> been convincing my wife
> that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the
> side makes her very
> nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say
> experimental. I
> don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly
> limited budget. I
> almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking
> at the operating and
> maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus
> fabric...it aint
> cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old
> technology and a 55 year
> old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well
> in it. And the
> biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice
> sleek lines. It will
> cost a little more money than a Colt and it will
> take time. But I like
> building things. The satisfaction I would get from
> flying a plane I
> built would be incredible. If I could just get my
> wife to see that.
> She is reluctantly on board at this point but she
> rolls her eyes a lot
> and says "why do you have to get an experimental
> plane?" My birthday is
> tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the
> builder's clinic at the
> Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get
> your wives completely
> on board?
>
> John Hines
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
John, hard nut to crack. I flew rented planes for years with my wife and she
never really relaxed. On the other hand, she was with me out in the shop for
the three years it took to complete my XL and she has even bragged that she
trusts our plane more that any 747 because she knows the guy who built it and
maintains it and she trust him so I hope she will embrace flying with me. I have
32.2 hours or my 40 so it will not be too long before I can test this
hypothesis. Course, you could just get her liquored up and pour her in the seat.
Worked before. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
John I feeeeel your pain!
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
John Hines wrote:
I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife
that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very
nervous.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Clyde, maybe getting you wife to help in the plans reading and organization
as much as possible, even with small things of building, might get her to feel
possessive of the plane and eager to experience the thrill of flying her.
Certainly somewhere on this list or at EAA HQ we have some "pointy headed
psychologists types" that could assist us in this quest for knowledge. Maybe we
could
publish a tip booklet. I'm sure the guy who build the first chariot had a
devil of a time to get his wife to ride and the first boat builder. Well you get
the drift, best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
When you mention that Sapce Ship One was also classified as Experimental, leave
out the part where Mike Melville had to hang on through a couple dozen rolls
before he got it to stabilize. Too much info.... in fact leave out space ship
one altogether. Boldly going where no man has gone before and all that will get
you exactly nowhere with her.
Tell you what, take a few weeks to practice thinking like her, you know, do a few
sets of mood swings twice a day. Try retaining fluid, check your backside in
the mirror etc. That should give you enough insight to play this right from
the start. Remember, you have to make this work. You only go around once in life....
unless you are a Buddist, but that's a different subject.
Also, I forgot to mention that you need to point out to her that you won't have
any time left over for chasing loose women.... If she doesn't come on board with
the project then you will have plenty of free time to chase loose women!
Oh yeah, also leave out the bit about the bent RV spars and such.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | doug kandle <d_kandle(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sender CH701 |
I just got off of the phone with Nick H. at Zenith. I am ready to
install my fuel tanks. I purchased the long range option, so I have
4 tanks. The instructions have the fuel sender for the main tanks
installed on the inboard side of the main tanks and the auxiliary
tanks have their senders mounted on the top of the tank. I asked
Nick if I can just mount the sender on the side of the outboard (aux)
tank just like the main. The short of it is that he said I can mount
the fuel level sender anywhere I like. But he said that the sender
on the aux tanks are optional, I don't need to have them at
all. This does have some appeal as it simplifies the installation.
He suggested that if I don't have a fuel gauge for the aux tanks,
that I take off on the mains, then switch to the aux tanks to use
whatever fuel I had planned (using time to determine gallons), then
switch back to the mains.
Is anyone using the aux tanks with no fuel senders and is it working
OK for you?
-- Another topic
I asked Nick about inspection plates. I want to be able to change
the fuel lines and senders without skinning the wing. I asked if the
plates needed to be considered a structural part of the wing. He
said "yes they need to be considered a part of the structure". He
went on to say that they needed to use nut plates and have enough
screws so that it was just as strong as the original, uncut, skin
(40mm spacing). I asked specifically about the use of plastic covers
(mentioned on this list before), and I was told that they are for
fabric planes with internal structure, not for metal planes where the
strength of the plane is dependent on the skin.
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings
From complete kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
> Randy -
> Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building
an
> experimental airplane?
Dawna:
Like myself, your Husband is one lucky pilot. I'll bet he works hard to
do his part. I'm not surprised that offers from other listers are pouring
in! Hate to see a bidding war here!
Best Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
> Randy -
> Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building
an
> experimental airplane?
Dawna:
Like myself, your Husband is one lucky pilot. I'll bet he works hard to
do his part. I'm not surprised that offers from other listers are pouring
in! Hate to see a bidding war here!
Best Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
John-
I made a deal with my wife 21 years ago, shortly after we got married.
She got a horse, and I got my pilot's license.
Now, she has TWO horses, and I have a........project.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines(at)craftontull.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
>
> I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife
> that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very
> nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I
> don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I
> almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and
> maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint
> cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year
> old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the
> biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will
> cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like
> building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I
> built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that.
> She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot
> and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is
> tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the
> Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely
> on board?
>
> John Hines
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Static Ports for 701 |
| From: | ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com |
Hello fortunate flyers,
After searching the archives I am still unclear. Is there a position for
the static ports on a 701 that has been shown to be ?accurate?, or at
least stable, especially at slow speeds? I have seen some references to
using A5 rivets with their stems removed. Does that work or should I use
store-bought ports?
Thanks
-- Ray
701, pegastol wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lendon <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Dear Listers:
Don't use OutLook or any Microsoft e-mail/browser if you can help it. I
use Thunderbird for e-mail and Firefox for the browser. It's free and
it hasn't been attacked yet. Going on 4 years. http://www.mozilla.com/
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>Dear Listers:
> I Apologize for the inconvenience I have caused you. It was not
>intentional. My Outlook Express picked that message to go belly up.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Hulland <marinegunner(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Whomever said take her to the Rudder Seminar and let Roger fly her, while
she also helps you build the rudder, hit the nail on the head. DO IT NOW.
Really let her help.
Semper Fi,
Steve Hulland
CH 701 Amado, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
>
> umm....2 horses = 2 planes. Right?
>
Gary-
"Some assembly required". For the horses, too, when if you count fixing
fences.
Bill
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Drwg 7-F-7 |
Tommy,
The 160mm is from the bottom of the firewall, not the bottom of 7F7-2C. The
7F7-2C should fit tight up under upper channel 7F7-1SP. Radius the 7F7-2C to
fit the radius bend in the upper channel. If you look at the drawing you will
see that the vertical channel 7F7-2C does not extend all the way down to the
bottom of the firewall.
Hope that helps
Bob Spudis
CH-701/912S wiring at present time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Portouw" <Larry(at)portouw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
John,
I've been very fortunate. My wife loves to fly- going places is the good
part for her. She's taken the AOPA pinch-hitters course a couple of times
and that seems to have help a bunch. I also got her gradually involved in
the build by asking for help, first with double checking drawings and math,
then with assembly and stuff like deburring parts. She's now toughest rivet
inspector you'll ever meet. She's much more comfortable now that she's
involved in the build, and has a say in the QC of the project.
Oh, and I have a PA-22-135/150 Tri-pacer. Not ugly. Homely maybe, but
not ugly. It'll outrun a Continental powered 172 and is a great short
field/grass plane. You're right about the cost, though. That's why my
Zodie will eventually replace the T-pacer. Just had a $2500 annual
inspection- but that's another story for another list.
Larry Portouw
601-XL
Rudder done. H-stab 70%
Atlanta, GA
Safety / Wives???
From:
"John Hines"
I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my
wife
that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very
nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I
don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I
almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating
and
maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint
cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55
year
old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the
biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It
will
cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I
like
building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I
built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that.
She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot
and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday
is
tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the
Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely
on board?
John Hines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard McLachlan" <richard(at)rodsley.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Mine will not go in the Zodiac at any price - probably because it is a home
built and we ran into serious problems with faulty engine mount brackets on
it last year. I think she wonders what else may be lurking as yet
undiscovered. She does not really like me flying it either.
On the other hand, I also have an R22 helicopter and she will fly with me in
that quite happily.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Safety / Wives??? |
| From: | "John Hines" <John.Hines(at)craftontull.com> |
Guys,
Thanks for all the advice, it worked! She is going with me to the
rudder workshop. I told her about the bed and breakfast in Mexico, MO
so we are going to stay there and have a good time.
John Hines
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Portouw
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
John,
I've been very fortunate. My wife loves to fly- going places is the
good
part for her. She's taken the AOPA pinch-hitters course a couple of
times
and that seems to have help a bunch. I also got her gradually involved
in
the build by asking for help, first with double checking drawings and
math,
then with assembly and stuff like deburring parts. She's now toughest
rivet
inspector you'll ever meet. She's much more comfortable now that she's
involved in the build, and has a say in the QC of the project.
Oh, and I have a PA-22-135/150 Tri-pacer. Not ugly. Homely maybe,
but
not ugly. It'll outrun a Continental powered 172 and is a great short
field/grass plane. You're right about the cost, though. That's why my
Zodie will eventually replace the T-pacer. Just had a $2500 annual
inspection- but that's another story for another list.
Larry Portouw
601-XL
Rudder done. H-stab 70%
Atlanta, GA
Safety / Wives???
From:
"John Hines"
I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing
my
wife
that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her
very
nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental.
I
don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget.
I
almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the
operating
and
maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it
aint
cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a
55
year
old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And
the
biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines.
It
will
cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I
like
building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane
I
built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see
that.
She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a
lot
and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My
birthday
is
tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at
the
Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives
completely
on board?
John Hines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 80 Msgs - 11/08/05 |
John,
The first thing you need to do is take her to the class with you. They will
be happy to give her a demo ride as well. If she isn't on board after that
you might want to reconsider building.
>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
> From: "John Hines" <John.Hines(at)craftontull.com>
>
>
>
> I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife
> that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very
> nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I
> don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I
> almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and
> maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint
> cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year
> old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the
> biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will
> cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like
> building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I
> built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that.
> She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot
> and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is
> tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the
> Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely
> on board?
>
> John Hines
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
John . . . I took my wife to a rudder workshop about 4 years ago - a very
positive experience. I expected a lecture (by ZAC staffe) on construction
techniques or something first, but they throw you right into construction.
She later bragged about how she was riveting an airplane. Try Porkys for
lunch or dinner - not fancy, but absolutely great ribs and pulled pork.
Nancy is so much behind the plane project that she insisted we build a
hanger on our farm property before the house. Now there's a keeper! Robert
Schoenberger 701 55%
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines(at)craftontull.com>
Subject: UPDATE - Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for all the advice, it worked! She is going with me to the
> rudder workshop. I told her about the bed and breakfast in Mexico, MO
> so we are going to stay there and have a good time.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> Portouw
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
>
>
> John,
>
> I've been very fortunate. My wife loves to fly- going places is the
> good
> part for her. She's taken the AOPA pinch-hitters course a couple of
> times
> and that seems to have help a bunch. I also got her gradually involved
> in
> the build by asking for help, first with double checking drawings and
> math,
> then with assembly and stuff like deburring parts. She's now toughest
> rivet
> inspector you'll ever meet. She's much more comfortable now that she's
> involved in the build, and has a say in the QC of the project.
>
> Oh, and I have a PA-22-135/150 Tri-pacer. Not ugly. Homely maybe,
> but
> not ugly. It'll outrun a Continental powered 172 and is a great short
> field/grass plane. You're right about the cost, though. That's why my
> Zodie will eventually replace the T-pacer. Just had a $2500 annual
> inspection- but that's another story for another list.
>
>
> Larry Portouw
>
> 601-XL
>
> Rudder done. H-stab 70%
>
> Atlanta, GA
>
>
> Safety / Wives???
>
>
> From:
>
> "John Hines"
>
>
>
>
> I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing
> my
> wife
> that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her
> very
> nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental.
> I
> don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget.
> I
> almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the
> operating
> and
> maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it
> aint
> cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a
> 55
> year
> old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And
> the
> biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines.
> It
> will
> cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I
> like
> building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane
> I
> built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see
> that.
> She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a
> lot
> and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My
> birthday
> is
> tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at
> the
> Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives
> completely
> on board?
>
> John Hines
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Dawna, you got a sister ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Dawna, you got a sister ? Is she as smart as you ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Larry, are you back from the sand box ? If so, call me and fly down to
Thomaston this week end and see my pretty XL. I will be trying to fly off the last
7.8 hours. Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Bonsell" <tbonsell(at)luxuria.com> |
| Subject: | Canadian: Advanced or Homebuilt? |
Hi Guys!
I'm in Canada, building a 701 from kits. Still waffling about engine choice.
Got my wings done, control surfaces, rudder, elevator, 50% fuse. I had been
planning to register it as an Advanced Ultralight, but the recent Kitfox
bankruptcy and its ramifications for Advanced owners got me thinking. Along
with the other restrictions, is Advanced really the way to go? And are the
advantages of being a Homebuilt worth having to peel my wings and surfaces
for inspections? Can I switch at all?
Anybody have any advice?
******************************************************
Tony Bonsell (tbonsell(at)luxuria.com) CI-FKF
Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications
535 Cragg Road, RR #3
Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3
Voice: 905.852.3848
http://www.luxuria.com
******************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Zenair CH-601XL Special Airworthiness Certificate |
I just sent an EMAIL to EAA with an adobe file containing the Special Airworthiness
Certificate for my Zenair CH-601XL. The Zenair 601XL should show up shortly
on their list of approved SLSAs.
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:38:47 EST
>
>Larry, are you back from the sand box ? If so, call me and fly down to
>Thomaston this week end and see my pretty XL. I will be trying to fly off the
last
>7.8 hours. Best regards, Bill
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian: Advanced or Homebuilt? |
Tony, the folks at the RAA are getting a little uptight about
"advanced ultralights" so you will want to weigh this.
If you go advanced be sure to keep everything legal as per Zenith
requirements. You will gain the ability to carry a passenger and
still do your own maintenance without the hassles of annual
inspections and such.
Homebuilt requires inspections and some feel the planes are "better"
because of this. Also, factor in resale price. Advanced and homebuilt
will construe a better resale down the line.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Tony Bonsell wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys!
>
> I'm in Canada, building a 701 from kits. Still waffling about
> engine choice.
> Got my wings done, control surfaces, rudder, elevator, 50% fuse. I
> had been
> planning to register it as an Advanced Ultralight, but the recent
October 23, 2005 - November 09, 2005
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-fd