Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-gg
November 26, 2006 - December 08, 2006
someone could do demos for building spars or bending ribs and such. I think
we have a very nice place to hold one here in San Antonio, but I have too
many issues to be able to sponsor it. Maybe someone else could do the main
sponsoring and I could help. The local EAA chapter has a club house
w/kitchen, and smoker/bbq grill. There's place for camping or stay at the
local hotels.
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
n282rs at earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mack
Kreizenbeck
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 12:59 PM
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XL |
-->
Juan,
I like your idea about getting together and flying somewhere as a group. I
hope to have my flying machine finished this spring! Anyone else out there
got any suggestions? The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho 601 XL QBK
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: PROP CHOICES |
Robin,
My information is several months old, but I will give you what I know.
I met Paul at EAA chapter 1 fly-in in southern California. At that time, they
were working on getting props built for the Vans series of aircraft. They were
going for the bigger numbers in the RV's. Paul has one installed in his Lancair,
which he flew to the event, and one installed in the Reno racer based in
Fallbrook, Ca. At the time, there were no solid plans for building props in
the 100 hp range, only the desire to do so in the future. If John Moyle is still
monitoring the list, he will have more accurate information. John, who is
the US Woodcomp dealer, partnered with Paul for the prop production. If you
receive Contact magazine, I am confident that they will be all over the progress
of the prop, as John is also the associate editor, or some other important
sounding title. He is also a 601 XL builder...
VR/
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan(at)entry.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensitive Elevator |
Hi Dan,
The oscilations I am talking about are induced by me, when correcting in heavy
turbulence, as the slightest movement on the stick forwards or backwards causes
a pitch change. I.e. deflecting the ailerons to lidt a dropped wing in
turbulance is very dificult to not move the stick in the pitch direction as
well.
Then Weight and Balance is bang on the manual, a I would not fly it otherwise.
(Done with three digital scales, by my AMO)
Jonathan
>
>Jonathan,
>Occilations are an indication of the CG getting too far aft
>causing instability in the pitch axis? Had you checked the
>weight and ballance?
>Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're Listed! |
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the List
seems at least as valuable of a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical
your magazine subscription! And how interactive is a magazine, after all? :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by droping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing GSC Propeller Bolts |
John, I have a similar arrangement of a prop extension on my 601HD
but I'm using a 68" Warp Drive prop.
My extension is a simpler arrangement of a heavy walled 6061 tube
with match drilled holes that use long prop bolts to directly bolts
the whole thing to the prop flange. The main concern on mine is not
stripping the threads on either the bolts or the prop flange cause
neither are cheap to replace! Rotax recommends a max of 94 ft/Lbs on
the prop flange according to my manual. My bolts extend enough past
the prop flange to have washers and nuts on the back to keep things
from backing out.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 26, 2006, at 12:37 PM, John M. Goodings wrote:
>
>
> Our CH601HD Zodiac with a Rotax 912S 100 HP engine has a 68-inch, 3-
> blade
> GSC wooden prop. In our installation, there is a prop flange
> extension.
> The prop is held on by 6 1/4-inch bolts (3 through the aluminum blade
> roots), and by 6 5/16-inch bolts onto the flange extension. GSC
> Systems
> says use 100 inch pounds of torque for the 1/4 inch bolts, and 140
> for the
> 5/16; these values are critical. Normally, with a washer under
> both the
> head and the nut, one holds the bolt head stationary, and torques the
> nylon lock nut; these nyloks are the preferred nuts recommended by
> GSC.
> Because of the design of the prop flange extension, it is not
> possible to
> get the torque wrench onto the nuts. Thus, one holds the nut
> stationary,
> and torques the bolt head. THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING. My son Peter
> (co-builder of our aircraft, and a professional mechanical
> engineer) knows
> from practical experience that putting the torque wrench on the
> bolt head
> can undertorque the nut by possibly 20-30%, or even more. It
> stands to
> reason: the bolt shaft (or grip) inevitably experiences some
> friction in
> passing through the parts being bolted together on the way to the nut.
> There is a little part called a "crow's foot" to overcome this
> difficulty,
> which goes over the nut, extends radially outward for about an
> inch, and
> has a square hole for attachment of the torque wrench. It happened
> that I
> had always torqued the prop bolts on our aircraft. In setting out to
> retorque the bolts yesterday because the weather is now turning cold,
> Peter realized right away that there was a problem. I had never
> used a
> crow's foot (I did not know of their existence!). I'm guessing
> that many
> others using this Rotax/GSC prop installation were also unaware of
> this
> problem. What have others done about this? Were they aware of the
> problem?
>
> John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Waterloo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is Comcast Blocking the Digest Again?? |
| From: | "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net> |
Hey Matt
Me thinks the demons at Comcast are blocking the list again.
I get the homebuilt list daily but I haven't got the Zenith List since the 24'th
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77274#77274
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com> |
From: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com>
To:
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 no slats again
Hi Joe
Have followed this thread with interest.
I've experimented with the 701's wing design but not with vgs. I opted for
air pressure operated slats and a thinner airfoil.
For more info on the results see my presentation at: eaa245.dhs.org/
I never considered flying the 701 without slat but I'm not surprised that
it could be a hand full. My take is that the Cof G and the centre of
pressure would move back, the Cp more so causing a nose heavy pitch moment
at all speeds and angles of attack. I would expect all stall speeds to
increase with the clean wing and top speed to probably remain the same or
decrease because of the blunt leading edge.
Adding vgs should delay the stall but should also increase drag?
Very interested in the results anyone gets if you try the no slat
configuration.
Carl 701/912/amphibs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Placement and Fuel Line Question |
A 70 micron filter is just a fine mesh screen like those found in
gascolators and the screens in automotive fuel tanks. The stuff
blocked by these screens winds up in the sediment bowl or fuel tank
sump where it can be drained during pre-flight. My fuel pumps are
just downstream of the gascolator at the low point of the system. I
certainly wouldn't put anything finer ahead of the pump.
The idea is to minimize any flow restrictions on the inlet side of
the pump to avoid reducing the pressure to the point where the fuel
might vaporize in the line.
On Nov 26, 2006, at 10:07 PM, lwhitlow wrote:
>
>
> Bryan
>
> the Facet install sheet specifies a 70 micon filter on the inlet
> side of the pump
>
> Has anyone else put a filter on the inlet side of the Facet pump??
>
>
>>
>>
>> Bryan wrote
>>
>> I wouldn't put a filter on the suction side of the fuel pump. It
>> isn't necessary and it increases the risk of a fuel stoppage. All you
>> should have on the suction side of the pump is the screen in the
>> tank. The screen keeps the bigger stuff out of the fuel pump and
>> filter will keep the small stuff from clogging the carbureter jets.
>> The filter should go in the line just before the carburetor. Even on
>> cars the filter is on the pressure side of the pump.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert N. Eli" <robert.eli(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
Carl,
I talked to Chris Heintz at Air Venture several years ago about the 701
airfoil, and the aerodynamic design of the slats. The airfoil is an old
standard airfoil (it is a NACA 640-18) with just a slot added. In other
words, if you simply remove the slot and leave the fixed slat in its design
postion to define the nose of the airfoil, then you have standard NACA
640-18 airfoil. If one wants to remove the slat from the airfoil design, the
original airfoil can be recovered by simply covering the slots with sheet
metal that matches the airfoil contour.
Bob Eli
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Fw: Zenith-List: 701 slats again
>
>
> From: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com>
> To:
>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 no slats again
>
> Hi Joe
> Have followed this thread with interest.
> I've experimented with the 701's wing design but not with vgs. I opted for
> air pressure operated slats and a thinner airfoil.
> For more info on the results see my presentation at: eaa245.dhs.org/
> I never considered flying the 701 without slat but I'm not surprised that
> it could be a hand full. My take is that the Cof G and the centre of
> pressure would move back, the Cp more so causing a nose heavy pitch moment
> at all speeds and angles of attack. I would expect all stall speeds to
> increase with the clean wing and top speed to probably remain the same or
> decrease because of the blunt leading edge.
> Adding vgs should delay the stall but should also increase drag?
> Very interested in the results anyone gets if you try the no slat
> configuration.
>
> Carl 701/912/amphibs
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What size Druzs Fasteners? |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Anybody know or have easy access to what size Druzs fasteners Zenith ships with
the wing locker kit? I need to order the retaining washers that DON'T come with
the kit and can't make it to the airport for a couple of days.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77309#77309
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is Comcast Blocking the Digest Again?? |
I've got Comcast and haven't had any problems receiving since a while back.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:23 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Is Comcast Blocking the Digest Again??
>
> Hey Matt
>
> Me thinks the demons at Comcast are blocking the list again.
>
> I get the homebuilt list daily but I haven't got the Zenith List since the
> 24'th
>
> Larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77274#77274
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What size Dzus Fasteners? |
Dear Gig,
I own a CH2000 which used Zenair part number AJW5-30 Winged Dzus Pin which
are charged out at $3.49 Canadian each, and I just ordered Zenair part
number SR 5 SS Dzus Pin Snap Rings at $0.20 each from Zenair
Canada. These fasteners were used in the top to bottom cowling joint, and
the cowling to airframe. Aircraft Spruce probably sell them too.
Reg
CH2000 in -30F Northern Alberta
>
>Anybody know or have easy access to what size Dzus fasteners Zenith ships
>with the wing locker kit? I need to order the retaining washers that DON'T
>come with the kit and can't make it to the airport for a couple of days.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77309#77309
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com> |
| Subject: | What size Druzs Fasteners? |
AJ5-30
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: What size Druzs Fasteners?
>
> Anybody know or have easy access to what size Druzs fasteners Zenith ships
> with the wing locker kit? I need to order the retaining washers that DON'T
> come with the kit and can't make it to the airport for a couple of days.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CH2000 Winter Front |
Zenair Canada has a winter front baffle for CH2000 /alarus CH640 aircraft
that will help keep the oil temperature higher. Cost was $48.00 Canadian
from the factory. If it ever warms up here I will get around to
installing it. I also ordered new fuel lines because mine are date
expired and I need to renew them for the import inspection. Any one out
there have a supplier for wing covers for the CH2000?
Reg in Edmonton
CH2000
SN 20-0010
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bruce's Custom Cover & CH2000 |
Dear Listmates,
When I enquired about the availability of a Canopy Cover for the CH2000,
many of you sent negative reviews of Bruce's Covers. I want to report
that the Custom Cover I recently received and which was recommended by the
factory in Midland arrived in good condition. This cover perfectly fits
my CH2000, has spots for the door handles, and the hand holds, and is
constructed of high quality materials. I went with Bruce's because of
previous good experiences 12 years ago with a Bruces Cover on an American
AA-5 I previously owned. I realize sometimes a business name remains but
the company has changed and so has the workmanship. I must say I find
that the CH2000 cover is a high quality item. I also ordered engine
intake plugs and they also high quality.
If you have an Alarus or CH2000, Bruce's Cover will do the job, someone
obviously did a very good job of pattern making. Now to find an engine
blanket and wing covers...
Reg in Edmonton Alberta
N8202Z 1995 CH2000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Tipton" <PTIPTON(at)swmail.sw.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Coast to coast and back in my 601XLCoast to coast and |
back in my 601XL
Great idea. I went to the Texas Fly-in in Hondo and was the only 701
there.
Paul Tipton
321PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ALAN BEYER <agbeyer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What size Druzs Fasteners? |
Giacona,=0A=0AI don't know off hand. Just food for thought. I made my hol
es for the screws a little larger so it is easyer to line them up when you
close the door. All I did was use an "O" ring over the end of the screw an
d it works good. They have been in place for over two years.=0A=0AAL from
Oshkosh=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona
(at)cox.net>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, November 27, 2006
8:47:48 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: What size Druzs Fasteners?=0A=0A=0A-->
Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" =0A=0AAnyb
ody know or have easy access to what size Druzs fasteners Zenith ships with
the wing locker kit? I need to order the retaining washers that DON'T come
with the kit and can't make it to the airport for a couple of days.=0A=0A-
-------=0AW.R. "Gig" Giacona=0A601XL Under Construction=0ASee my
progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online
here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77309#77309=0A=0A
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What size Druzs Fasteners? |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Good idea. Unfortunatly I already ordered the retainers from AS. Thanks though.
agbeyer(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Giacona,
>
> I don't know off hand. Just food for thought. I made my holes for the screws
a little larger so it is easyer to line them up when you close the door. All
I did was use an "O" ring over the end of the screw and it works good. They
have been in place for over two years.
>
> AL from Oshkosh
>
>
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77398#77398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andre Abreu <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Zodiac 601XL Performance Again (sorry) |
Sorry to bring this up once again... but why does the Zenith website claim
this performance figure?=0A=0AI think this figure below is for the Rotax.
=0A=0A75% CRUISE @ 8,000 ft. (TAS*)155 mph=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.zenithair.co
m/zodiac/xl/performance.html=0A=0A=0AI would love this to be true... =0Abut
like my mother tried to beat in my head ... if it's too good to be true...
=0Ahow does that go?=0A=0AKind Regards,=0AAndy Abreu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What size Druzs Fasteners? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I used what I think were 5/16" e-clips from Home Depot. They fit the groove.
Dave G
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77420#77420
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | C-85 in 601XL??? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I am early in my 601XL build and am still considering engine choices. I have the
opportunity to use a C-85 engine. It was meant for another project that will
probably never get completed due to the builders age. It is a close family
member, so if I asked for it, I could probably get it for free.
Has anybody put a C-85 in an XL or ever considered it? I am concerned with how
much of a deficit I would see in speed, max weight and useful load vs. the published
and actuals people are seeing with the Rotax and Jabiru engines.
Thanks for any advice or opinions,
Dave G
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77422#77422
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
All that is true however you will have moved the leading edge of the wing back
4 inches, thus needing to redo your moment and ARM. Or the CG will be off.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Robert N. Eli" <robert.eli(at)adelphia.net>
>Sent: Nov 27, 2006 8:52 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 slats again
>
>
>Carl,
>
>I talked to Chris Heintz at Air Venture several years ago about the 701
>airfoil, and the aerodynamic design of the slats. The airfoil is an old
>standard airfoil (it is a NACA 640-18) with just a slot added. In other
>words, if you simply remove the slot and leave the fixed slat in its design
>postion to define the nose of the airfoil, then you have standard NACA
>640-18 airfoil. If one wants to remove the slat from the airfoil design, the
>original airfoil can be recovered by simply covering the slots with sheet
>metal that matches the airfoil contour.
>
>Bob Eli
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:18 AM
>Subject: Fw: Zenith-List: 701 slats again
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com>
>> To:
>>
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 no slats again
>>
>> Hi Joe
>> Have followed this thread with interest.
>> I've experimented with the 701's wing design but not with vgs. I opted for
>> air pressure operated slats and a thinner airfoil.
>> For more info on the results see my presentation at: eaa245.dhs.org/
>> I never considered flying the 701 without slat but I'm not surprised that
>> it could be a hand full. My take is that the Cof G and the centre of
>> pressure would move back, the Cp more so causing a nose heavy pitch moment
>> at all speeds and angles of attack. I would expect all stall speeds to
>> increase with the clean wing and top speed to probably remain the same or
>> decrease because of the blunt leading edge.
>> Adding vgs should delay the stall but should also increase drag?
>> Very interested in the results anyone gets if you try the no slat
>> configuration.
>>
>> Carl 701/912/amphibs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Janicki <mmesa005(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Hello All,=0A =0AI am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have
been reading the recent threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and
pilot.=0A =0AI don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about w
hat happened, etc. I would like to know if anyone has experience with simul
ated engine out landings and would share those experiences with the group?
I would also appreciate any experiences with how the 601XL glides during si
mulated engine out practice and any comparisons to other aircraft, i.e. Ces
sna 172, etc. =0A =0AThanks in advance,=0A =0ASteven=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Performance Again (sorry) |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
You do realize that is True Airspeed?
http://www.paragonair.com/public/aircraft/calc_TAS.html
aabreu wrote:
> Sorry to bring this up once again... but why does the Zenith website claim this
performance figure?
>
> I think this figure below is for the Rotax.
>
> 75% CRUISE @ 8,000 ft. (TAS*)
> 155 mph
>
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html)
>
>
> I would love this to be true...
> but like my mother tried to beat in my head ... if it's too good to be true...
> how does that go?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Andy Abreu
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77434#77434
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: C-85 in 601XL??? |
Dave,
I have a good friend that is almost complete with his 601HDS with Cont O-200.
He is too old to fly it, but has been very slowly plugging along on the
aircraft for over 12 years. I think he was one of the very first kit buyers.
He is now too old to even work on it, and has friends do the work. His wife
asked me to finish the project, which I hope to do, but I am too busy getting
mine back in the air. He has a mold in the shop for a custom cowling to house
the engine. I am not sure if he bought or built his engine mount. I also know
that he has a Warp Drive to put on it, and put the battery behind the seats.
If you e-mail me off-list with specific questions about the installation,
I can call and ask.
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Josh Olson" <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Steven:
I would like to know as well. I am also considering building the Zodiac but
I would like to know glide speed and glide ratio information as well.
If anyone responds, please cc me as well.
Thanks,
Josh Olson
Email: mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Janicki
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 5:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience
Hello All,
I am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have been reading the
recent threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and pilot.
I don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about what happened,
etc. I would like to know if anyone has experience with simulated engine out
landings and would share those experiences with the group? I would also
appreciate any experiences with how the 601XL glides during simulated engine
out practice and any comparisons to other aircraft, i.e. Cessna 172, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Steven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Josh Olson" <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Zodiac 601XL Performance Again (sorry) |
Andre:
FYI. This figure is based on the Jabiru 3300 install I believe.
Josh Olson
Email: mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andre Abreu
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601XL Performance Again (sorry)
Sorry to bring this up once again... but why does the Zenith website claim
this performance figure?
I think this figure below is for the Rotax.
75% CRUISE @ 8,000 ft. (TAS*)
155 mph
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html
I would love this to be true...
but like my mother tried to beat in my head ... if it's too good to be
true...
how does that go?
Kind Regards,
Andy Abreu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during this period.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a brand new, quad-processor Xeon Linux
server for List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to
the email processing List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a
remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard
drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage, soon to be upgraded
to over 6 Terra Bytes! This entire system is protected by three large, commercial-grade
uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are
available even during a local power outage! Speaking of power, imagine how much
electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One month this Summer,
I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. This year I added another rack to house
the new MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the
first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It
is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
| From: | "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com> |
More interesting reading
The vast reduction in drag allows all these aircraft to fly considerably faster
for the same power, climb better, glide better, and with the benefit of Vortex
Generators, lift-off and touch-down just as short as with slats, but with more
control.
In summary for my Savannah:
Fast cruise @ 5200 rpm has gone from 79 kt to 85 kt. = + 6 kts
Top speed has gone from 94 kts to 103 kts! = + 9 kts.
Fuel burn @ 75 kts has gone from 17 L/hr to 13 L/hr. = 23.5% less!
Best climb rate @ 55 kts is 100 fpm higher.
Best glide @ 40-45 kts is 100 fpm better.
Stalls (idle power, no flap):
With slats no real stall, just a stable high-descent mush @ less than 30 kts.
Without slats, no VGs* a distinct stall and roll to the left @ 34 kts.
Without slats and with VGs no stall, just a stable mush @ less than 30 kts.
*VGs = Vortex Generators, more about them elsewhere.
L/hr x 0.26 = US Gal/hr.
Kts x 1.15 = mph.
This testing was done in a Savannah aircraft, a kitplane from I.C.P. in Italy, www.icp.it/avio.htm or http://www.skykits.com/ . Its pretty much a clone of a Zenair CH701, same wing profile but a longer wing, and a different tail section. Powered by a 100hp 912ULS, 4-blade Brolga prop pitched for climb (16 blocks), carrying pilot (73kg) and 30 litres fuel.
ore interesting reading from www.stolspeed.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77566#77566
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Monty Graves <mgraves(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: PROP CHOICES |
Don't forget about Culver props.
www.culverprops.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clive Richards" <s.c.richards(at)homecall.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Crack in 601HD firewall stiffner 6F8-2 |
Hi list we have found a crack in the firewall stiffner near the port
engine mount and have had to replace the stiffner
We beleave this may be because we are using a Continental 0-200 & a
header tank so are on a fairley forward C of G. Have any of you with
this combination had any problems ?
We have difficulty in Just lowering the nose on landing, it
tends to want to drop when you remove the power. It is possably caused
because to much we trimmed off the stiffner to fit the original faulty
engine mount.
We found this when changing the nose wheel bungey which was fraid
at the bottom tube and started to shed rubber.
We have done a lot of tuch & goes try to perfect our landings
Clive Richards
GCBDG 52 Hrs Estimated 250 T&G / Landings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
This discussion contains a lot of speculation on what would happen if you
removed the slats or covered the slot between slats and wings, etc. Some
of it is not very well thought out as to what happens to the CG range. I
would suggest trying to learn from those who have removed the slats and
are flying their 701's in that configuration (and I suppose the
experience with modified Savannahs should also be considered.) I would
hope that anyone making this modification would use the data from those
who have been successful and would then proceed with extreme caution. I
understand that the CG range on the 701 is approximately 30-39 % of the
airfoil measured from the front of the slat--I have not checked that out
myself. Unslatted wings are usually approximately 20 to 28% (Forgive me
if these numbers are off of few % + or -.) What is the CG range of the
701 airfoil if you measure from the leading edge of the wing instead of
the slat? Is a slat aerodynamically part of the airfoil when calculating
CG range? I don't know, but you can bet I am going to find out. Also
keep in mind the effect of removing the weight of the slats even though
they are light and have a small moment arm. Think it out. Research it.
Learn from others who've "dunit." Proceed with caution.
Rich Hartwig, 701 kit
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hoak" <planejim(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crack in 601HD firewall stiffner 6F8-2 |
Clive,
If I remember correctly, Art Mitchell had this problem with early 601HDs
used for training. ( Lots of landings). I think he was using Rotax
engines though. The fix was a "L" stiffner riveted on to each end of
6F8-2 along the diaginal edges. I heard of this and added the stiffners
before ever flying my HD. (1996) I now have 745 landings and 536 hours.
Even with the Rotax 912UL I find that I need to keep much UP elevator
just at touch-down to keep the nose wheel from dropping down fairly
hard. I have found that the slower you get the airplane just before the
mains touch, the less tendency to bang the nose down. In other words,
slow it down on landing. I keep reminding myself and now make very
consistant and SOFT landings.
Jim Hoak 912UL - 536 hrs - 745 landings
----- Original Message -----
From: Clive Richards
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:26 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Crack in 601HD firewall
stiffner 6F8-2
Hi list we have found a crack in the firewall stiffner near the port
engine mount and have had to replace the stiffner
We beleave this may be because we are using a Continental 0-200 & a
header tank so are on a fairley forward C of G. Have any of you with
this combination had any problems ?
We have difficulty in Just lowering the nose on landing, it
tends to want to drop when you remove the power. It is possably caused
because to much we trimmed off the stiffner to fit the original faulty
engine mount.
We found this when changing the nose wheel bungey which was fraid
at the bottom tube and started to shed rubber.
We have done a lot of tuch & goes try to perfect our landings
Clive Richards
GCBDG 52 Hrs Estimated 250 T&G / Landings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert N. Eli" <robert.eli(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
Rich,
I completely agree with your recommendations. Just removing the 701 slat,
with no modifications, produces a "snub-nosed" airfoil, that is unlike any
standard airfoil, and would seem to create all sorts of potentially
dangerous issues. If the slot is covered, and the original NACA airfoil is
recovered, then there will be CG range issues that should be carefully
researched before risking the change. I think the information to answer the
latter questions are out there somewhere. I know that extensive research
has been conducted in the past comparing airfoils with and without slats.
Bob Eli
N701K
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11(at)juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 slats again
>
> This discussion contains a lot of speculation on what would happen if you
> removed the slats or covered the slot between slats and wings, etc. Some
> of it is not very well thought out as to what happens to the CG range. I
> would suggest trying to learn from those who have removed the slats and
> are flying their 701's in that configuration (and I suppose the
> experience with modified Savannahs should also be considered.) I would
> hope that anyone making this modification would use the data from those
> who have been successful and would then proceed with extreme caution. I
> understand that the CG range on the 701 is approximately 30-39 % of the
> airfoil measured from the front of the slat--I have not checked that out
> myself. Unslatted wings are usually approximately 20 to 28% (Forgive me
> if these numbers are off of few % + or -.) What is the CG range of the
> 701 airfoil if you measure from the leading edge of the wing instead of
> the slat? Is a slat aerodynamically part of the airfoil when calculating
> CG range? I don't know, but you can bet I am going to find out. Also
> keep in mind the effect of removing the weight of the slats even though
> they are light and have a small moment arm. Think it out. Research it.
> Learn from others who've "dunit." Proceed with caution.
> Rich Hartwig, 701 kit
> Waunakee, WI
> rhartwig11(at)juno.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | getting bumped on the digest |
Hi list
for the past several months, i have been getting
bumped off the digest about once or twice a week.
when it happens now, i usually find it in my bulk mail
folder. i move it and it works for awhile then gets
bumped. not much effort to move according to the value
of the list. next time it happens to you, check your
bulk mail folder
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crack in 601HD firewall stiffner 6F8-2 |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Any way we can get a photo of the crack? I'd like to make sure I know exactly where
it is developing.
[quote="s.c.richards(at)homecall."]Hi list we have found a crack in the firewall
stiffner near the port engine mount and have had to replace the stiffner
We beleave this may be because we are using a Continental 0-200 & a header tank
so are on a fairley forward C of G. Have any of you with this combination
had any problems ?
We have difficulty in Just lowering the nose on landing, it tends to
want to drop when you remove the power. It is possably caused because to much
we trimmed off the stiffner to fit the original faulty engine mount.
We found this when changing the nose wheel bungey which was fraid at the
bottom tube and started to shed rubber.
We have done a lot of tuch & goes try to perfect our landings
Clive Richards
GCBDG 52 Hrs Estimated 250 T&G / Landings
> [b]
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77620#77620
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Here is some very practical information about how I make landings. So far
I've got about 120 hours on my plane, and I don't know how many landings.
I would say maybe 80 - 100.
When I fly a standard landing pattern (i.e. same as a Cessna 152/172) I use
about 75% power on the downwind leg. I leave that amount of power in unti
l I get to the corner, that is, until I turn base. At that point I'm still
1000 feet AGL, and I pull the power back to almost idle. I glide in from
there with minor changes to power. If I'm low, I add power, if I'm high I
use more flaps, or even add a side slip.
So to answer your original question, the glide performance isn't as good as
a 172, but it's not that different. Best glide speed is about 85 mph in m
y plane.Phil Maxson601XL/CorvairNorthwest New Jersey
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:53:59 -0800From: mmesa005(at)yahoo.comSubject: Zenit
h-List: 601XL - Engine out / Glide ExperienceTo: zenith-list-digest@matroni
cs.com
Hello All,
I am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have been reading the
recent threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and pilot.
I don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about what happened,
etc. I would like to know if anyone has experience with simulated engine o
ut landings and would share those experiences with the group? I would also
appreciate any experiences with how the 601XL glides during simulated engin
e out practice and any comparisons to other aircraft, i.e. Cessna 172, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Steven
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Phil - how do you set the flaps during the various phases of landing?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
you will not gain as mouch speed if you do not elliminate the negative lift foil
horizontal stab. That is what the savana did. hence the higher speed.
-----Original Message-----
>From: secatur <appraise1(at)bigpond.com>
>Sent: Nov 28, 2006 4:18 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 slats again
>
>
>More interesting reading
>
>
>The vast reduction in drag allows all these aircraft to fly considerably faster
for the same power, climb better, glide better, and with the benefit of Vortex
Generators, lift-off and touch-down just as short as with slats, but with more
control.
>
>In summary for my Savannah:
>
>Fast cruise @ 5200 rpm has gone from 79 kt to 85 kt. = + 6 kts
>Top speed has gone from 94 kts to 103 kts! = + 9 kts.
>Fuel burn @ 75 kts has gone from 17 L/hr to 13 L/hr. = 23.5% less!
>Best climb rate @ 55 kts is 100 fpm higher.
>Best glide @ 40-45 kts is 100 fpm better.
>
>Stalls (idle power, no flap):
>With slats no real stall, just a stable high-descent mush @ less than 30 kts.
>Without slats, no VGs* a distinct stall and roll to the left @ 34 kts.
>Without slats and with VGs no stall, just a stable mush @ less than 30 kts.
>
>*VGs = Vortex Generators, more about them elsewhere.
>L/hr x 0.26 = US Gal/hr.
>Kts x 1.15 = mph.
>
>This testing was done in a Savannah aircraft, a kitplane from I.C.P. in Italy, www.icp.it/avio.htm or http://www.skykits.com/ . Its pretty much a clone of a Zenair CH701, same wing profile but a longer wing, and a different tail section. Powered by a 100hp 912ULS, 4-blade Brolga prop pitched for climb (16 blocks), carrying pilot (73kg) and 30 litres fuel.
>ore interesting reading from www.stolspeed.com
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77566#77566
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
By all means leave the gate open!!!! 63 degrees today, sunny and smooth
flying.
Upstate New York
N701ZX CH701/912S
In a message dated 11/28/2006 5:45:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith
Will you guys in the northern latitudes just cut it out??
North Texas has enjoyed mild temps in the mid 70's for two or three
months.....now we are told that somebody north of Oklahoma has left a gate open.
It is 73 F as I type this plea for sanity.....close those gates, fellows!
The prediction is for 25 F Friday morning, and the "S-word" has been mentioned.
We may have to resort to wearing sleeves as we pull rivets and use the
dreaded Green ScotchBrite pads.
Have mercy......
Regards to all who are snowbound,
Zed
do not archive!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
Yeah, global warming..oops, sorry, no polytiks.I withdraw my comment..
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Marzulli
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Enough!!!
What ever they did in OK, it hit us here in Seattle. We haven't seen
temperatures this low in years! We got more snow in the last two days then
in the previous three years combined!
On 11/28/06, Zed Smith wrote:
Will you guys in the northern latitudes just cut it out??
North Texas has enjoyed mild temps in the mid 70's for two or three
months.....now we are told that somebody north of Oklahoma has left a gate
open.
It is 73 F as I type this plea for sanity.....close those gates, fellows!
The prediction is for 25 F Friday morning, and the "S-word" has been
mentioned.
We may have to resort to wearing sleeves as we pull rivets and use the
dreaded Green ScotchBrite pads.
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Wieck <dwieck(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
He said remove the SLOT not the SLAT
> Carl,
>
> I talked to Chris Heintz at Air Venture several years ago about the 701
> airfoil, and the aerodynamic design of the slats. The airfoil is an old
> standard airfoil (it is a NACA 640-18) with just a slot added. In other
> words, if you simply remove the slot and leave the fixed slat in its design
> postion to define the nose of the airfoil, then you have standard NACA
> 640-18 airfoil. If one wants to remove the slat from the airfoil design, the
> original airfoil can be recovered by simply covering the slots with sheet
> metal that matches the airfoil contour.
>
> Bob Eli
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | CZAW cowl question |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Fosse" <jfosse1(at)shawneelink.net> |
For an interesting and informative commentary on 701 and Savannah slats,
or the lack thereof, go to: www.stolspeed.com.
Jim Fosse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
Hey Ron, I know where Rotan is , I was BORN there, not much in the area
then except cotton fields,dust,rattlesnakes and oil wells. LOW&SLOW
John
----- Original Message -----
From: ron wehba
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Enough!!!
hi zed, ron here in rotan, north west of abilene, we are gittin' out a
da
way of it , going to canton for the next few days. wind might not even
be
blowing there,, stay warm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Enough!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 slats again |
| From: | "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com> |
READ previous post, or go to www.stolspeed.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77746#77746
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans" <harina(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | RE: 701 slats again |
I've been flying my 701 for 475 hrs total,175 hrs without slats, so I
think maybe I should comment on this thread. I was the first 701 flyer
in Australia to remove the slats ,after seeing the results that the
savannahs got. See www.stolspeed.com. I must say that I like it much
better without the slats and will never change back!!
Since then two other 701's at our airfield have removed their slats,and
I have flown their aircraft-same result.
To answer some of those specific dire predictions:
>my take is that the C of G and the centre of pressure would move
back,the Cp more so causing a nose heavy pitch moment at all speeds and
angles of attack<
Not so in real life..... before I took the slats off I did a test flight
and set the trim to neutral cruise. About one hour later I did another
test flight with the slats off, same conditions,same load. no change at
all in cruise trim! Take-off,climb,decent,and landing,all felt balanced
and correct...
>I would expect all stall speeds to increase with the clean wing<
With the clean wing,yes of course the stall speed increased and became
more abrupt,but with the VG's it came back very much like with slats,and
angle of attack much the same as with slats.
>and top speed to probably remain the same or decrease because of the
blunt leading edge<
Not so- top speed and cruise speed definitely increased without the
slats and fuel consumption really decreased for the same cruise
speed.15%.The blunt leading edge doesn't seem to effect the speed in
this speed range.You would think so,but the Savannah with that same
blunt profile as the 701 goes pretty much the same speed as the new
"finer" leading edge that the Savannah put on their new "VG" model .
>adding VG"s should delay the stall but should also increase drag?<
No they do not increase drag-see the Updates page in www.stolspeed.com.
>if one wants to remove the slats from the airfoil design, the original
airfoil can be recovered by simply covering the slots with sheet metal
that matches the airfoil contour
Be careful about that one! See the slats vs. VG's page, C of G section,
in www.stolspeed.com. When original built with slats, 95 litre wing
tanks,and 912 S,my loaded Cof G calculated at 477 mm aft of the slat
leading edge,1433 mm cord = 33% m.a.c This number would seem quite far
aft by conventional practice,but it sure didn't fly as if it had a aft C
of G .removing the slats moved the leading edge aft 160 mm , so the same
C of G position was now located 317 mm from the new leading edge, with
the cord now 1270 mm = 25% m.a.c. , which is right in the range
recommended for any conventional wing. I recently did a new weight and
balance on very good scales-
without slats =26%m.a.c, loaded up for travel- full fuel ( wing
tanks),20 kg baggage , 40 litres of fuel in pax seat - 503 kg ( 1107
lbs).It flies just perfect like this.
Well I have tried no slats and I wouldn't go back, no way! And it's not
as if I am easily influenced by other people's claims- I'm a sceptical,
independent-minded Dutchman,ex-Royal Dutch Air Force. I fly my plane
hard,and practice STOL landings all the time,so I have a really good
feel for it at all speeds. Always doing glide approach and idle power
landings-That is the real test of a well balanced aircraft.
Hans van Santen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 801 Tire Clearance |
801 People,
I haven't started my fuselage yet so I don't know the answer to this
question. What is the clearance between the wheels and the gear legs?
Both the mains and the nose. I assume 8.50 tires will fit, but I am
curious if anything larger will. If anyone knows, I would appreciate
knowing too.
Dave in Salem - snow melted, getting cold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response
has been very good, but we are behind last year in the number of people that have
made a Contribution and as a percentage of the total number of subscribers.
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com> |
Hey...what about us poor slobs in Australia...some of us ain't seen rain for 5
YEARS! I think we'd all jump at the chance to get a couple feet of snow and a
bit of relief fro 38 degrees! lol
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77814#77814
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please |
Read]
| From: | "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com> |
Hey Matt,
not to put too fine a point on it , (and I'm sure it's totally great) but when
soliciting donations it is customary to include annual financials. Yes?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77815#77815
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | CZAW cowl question again |
(Looks like my first post got stripped)
Just wondering if anyone on the list has any input on something:
I'm just completed the conversion of my 601HD to the CZAW cowl and
rad placement. It was very easy and it's a very nice kit. I reckon I
got an extra 5Mph out of the plane because of the cleaner profile
(I've flown it for 1 hour so far)
However, I still seem to have higher oil temps. I have an 80HP 912
and I sprung for the larger oil cooler which I've installed as
directed in front of the muffler can. Now, the oil cooler inlet duct
in the cowl is rather small: I see a 3/4" opening at the end of the
NACA duct.
Has anyone with a recent R912 install on an HD or XL with the same
oil cooler placement have the same issue with a small opening? There
seems to be a real lack of pictures of the install to compare mine
against so maybe someone can chime in? My oil temps reach 260F which
seems a bit higher than most but I do know that my older engine has
an oil temp probe located on the bottom front oil outlet fitting
rather than the newer location at the oil pump housing. I reckon my
temps are going to be higher since the oil temps are read after the
oil has gone through the engine just before going into the tank. How
much higher? I have no idea but does 30F seems reasonable? More?
Right now I'm waiting to hear back from anyone before I go and do
something drastic like make the opening bigger cutting the roof of
the NACA duct forward or make up some kind of ducting work to come
closer the oil cooler and seal it up somehow.
Thanks in advance!
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
I've included a picture of the cowl so you can see what I'm talking
about on the forum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Moellering" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Making a Vixen File Tool |
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to give
me a tip or two.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Sa" <carlossa52(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
Doug, if you are thinking of deburring holes, consider fine sand paper.
I have used it with very good results.
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 29/11/06, Doug Moellering wrote:
>
> dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
>
> OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
> deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
> on
> scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
>
> How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
> of
> the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
> surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
> tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
>
> Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to give
> me a tip or two.
>
> Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.P." <zodie(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Moellering" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
>
>
> OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
> deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
> on scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
>
> How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
> of the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
> surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
> tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
>
> Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to give
> me a tip or two.
>
> Doug
The vixen file deburring tools that I have used were epoxied to the wooden
block.
Don't screw it, glue it.
Rick Pitcher
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
| From: | "John Hines" <John.Hines(at)craftontull.com> |
At the bank and stuff.
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines(at)craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are
not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
information is strictly prohibited.
Re: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
At the bank and stuff.
-----
Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Moellering"
<dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden
handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch
the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to
undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
===========
This Month --
Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
on
www.buildersbooks.com
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
bsp; &nb
sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Zenith-List Email Forum -
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
===========
This email and
any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for
the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you
have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and
delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or
taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
strictly prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
| From: | "John Hines" <John.Hines(at)craftontull.com> |
Oops! Sorry guys, I responded to the wrong email. Sorry.
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines(at)craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed Nov 29 08:21:22 2006
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
At the bank and stuff.
John R. Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines(at)craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com <http://www.craftontull.com/>
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 =C2=B7Rogers, AR 72756
<http://www.craftontull.com/>
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
This Month --
Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
on
www.buildersbooks.com
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Zenith-List Email Forum -
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are
not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
information is strictly prohibited.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are
not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
information is strictly prohibited.
Re: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
Oops! Sorry guys, I responded to the wrong
email. Sorry.
-----
Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 08:21:22 2006
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
At the bank and stuff.
John R. Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines(at)craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com <http://www.craftontull.com/>
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 ·Rogers, AR 72756
<http://www.craftontull.com/>&
nbsp;
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand
the needs of our clients and provide them with successful
solutions.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
<owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wed Nov 29 07:22:48 2006
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Moellering"
<dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden
handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch
the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to
undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
===========
This Month --
Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
on
www.buildersbooks.com
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
bsp; &nb
sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Zenith-List Email Forum -
HREF="http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
===========
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are
not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
information is strictly prohibited.
===========
This Month --
Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
on
www.buildersbooks.com
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
bsp; &nb
sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Zenith-List Email Forum -
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
===========
This email and
any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for
the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you
have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and
delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or
taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
strictly prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
| From: | "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> |
No drilling required!
Skip the drilling and just bond the file to the wooden handle with some JB Weld-type
epoxy (make sure the file is clean!). Drill a couple of shallow holes up
into your wooden handle to help prevent shearing of the top side of the joint.
Don't forget to chmfer the edges to prevent digging in if you get off level.
Enjoy.
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77835#77835
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Kerr" <kerrjf(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Zenith 601XL Plans for sale |
Unused 601XL plans are now for sale on Ebay, Item # 250055386707.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Buying a Partial Built Kit |
Dear Thread Friends, I'm looking to buy a kit that the original owner has
finished most of the tail and part of a wing. A couple questions arise. What
documentation for sale to satisfy the FAA for certification is required? When I
bought my XL kit directly from ZAC I received a sales certificate that I had to
include a copy of to the FAA for certification. Who out there has bought a
started kit and successfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount
of work can be accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to
be granted a repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall
pole" in the tent because I would not own a plane I can't work on. Hope to
hear soon from some of you smart fellows. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
96 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Making a Vixen File Tool |
Doug, please go with the Epoxy method. Bonding the Vixen file is a lot
better then the screw method. Don't forget to knock off the edges.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Moellering
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:23 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Making a Vixen File Tool
OK, here's an easy one for those who have made hand held (wooden handle)
deburring tools out of half-length vixen files, as depicted in the video
on
scratchbuilding released by HomebuiltHelp.com.
How on earth would one drill screw holes through the hardened tool steel
of
the file????? I've broken more than a few bits, and yet to scratch the
surface! I'm guessing that heat must be applied to the file to undo the
tempering, but doesn't that ruin the file?
Anybody that has been there; done that, would be more than welcome to
give
me a tip or two.
Doug
--
11/29/2006
--
11/29/2006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
Sorry to ask the obvious, but how does one cut the file in the first
place???
Michael in NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making a Vixen File Tool |
| From: | "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> |
Cutting Vixen File
You could just use a cut-off wheel to score both sides part-way through and then
place the file in a vise and whack it with a deadblow hammer. It should snap
right off. Grind to suit your curved end shapes and then chamfer the sharp edges
to prevent gouging
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77914#77914
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ALAN BEYER <agbeyer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
A friend of mine just finished and is now flying a Zodiac HD. He got the k
it from a guy that had the wings and tail stuff already done. He had no tr
ouble with the FAA. I am not sure what steps he took to register the plane
. The best guy to talk to is Joe Norris of the EAA. He is in Aviation Ser
vices and is a DAR. He did the inspection on my HDS. As far as working on
your plane the FAA told me that a trained monkey, or your wife can work on
the plane, but you need the Repairmans Cert. to inspect it.=0A=0AAl from O
shkosh=0AHDS-3300 (N645AB)=0A275 Hrs.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---
-=0AFrom: "JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com" <JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@m
atronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:54:07 PM=0ASubject: Zen
ith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit=0A=0ADear Thread Friends, I'm looking
to buy a kit that the original owner has finished most of the tail and part
of a wing. A couple questions arise. What documentation for sale to satisf
y the FAA for certification is required? When I bought my XL kit directly f
rom ZAC I received a sales certificate that I had to include a copy of to t
he FAA for certification. Who out there has bought a started kit and succes
sfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount of work can be
accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to be granted a
repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall pole" in t
he tent because I would not own a plane I can't work on. Hope to hear soon
from some of you smart fellows. Best regards, Bill of Georgia=0AN505WP=0A60
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Thread Friends,
I'm planning on applying Cortec to the mating surfaces before riveting my stabilizer
together.
Are there any concerns with the cortec "wearing down" over a long time and resulting
in loose rivets...?
Maybe after a few years of exposure to heat/moisture/vibration? Being that it's
also water soluble, will moisture erode it?
Thanks,
- PatrickW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77922#77922
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
| From: | "zodieman" <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
Here's the picture of the CZAW cowl I mentioned. Notice the oil cooler inlet on
the bottom. The opening at the back is only 3/4". Since it's on an upwards angle
when installed, cutting the "roof" of the inlet will make for a wider opening
to allow more air in.
I've also attached another picture of a red 601 with the same cowl and the lower
inlet seems to be missing much of the so-called "roof". You can clearly see
the oil cooler in there.
Any thoughts?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77923#77923
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/red601_676.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/czawcowl_205.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
if riveted correctly, the surfaces should be solid for the life of the plane, why
the Cortec might I ask?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 29, 2006 5:20 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...?
>
>
>Thread Friends,
>
>I'm planning on applying Cortec to the mating surfaces before riveting my stabilizer
together.
>
>Are there any concerns with the cortec "wearing down" over a long time and resulting
in loose rivets...?
>
>Maybe after a few years of exposure to heat/moisture/vibration? Being that it's
also water soluble, will moisture erode it?
>
>Thanks,
>
>- PatrickW
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77922#77922
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
I just am in process of registeting the plane on the famous -01 FAA paper. if
amateur status, equals 40 hr fly off but repairman's certificate for annuals
is literally automatic. Option two is LSA status which equals a 25 hour fly off,
but would need to take 16hour repairman's license. You friend probably did
what a lot of people have done, sign that it was 51% amateur built.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: ALAN BEYER <agbeyer(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Nov 29, 2006 5:05 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit
>
>A friend of mine just finished and is now flying a Zodiac HD. He got the kit
from a guy that had the wings and tail stuff already done. He had no trouble
with the FAA. I am not sure what steps he took to register the plane. The best
guy to talk to is Joe Norris of the EAA. He is in Aviation Services and is
a DAR. He did the inspection on my HDS. As far as working on your plane the
FAA told me that a trained monkey, or your wife can work on the plane, but you
need the Repairmans Cert. to inspect it.
>
>Al from Oshkosh
>HDS-3300 (N645AB)
>275 Hrs.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: "JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com" <JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com>
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:54:07 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit
>
>Dear Thread Friends, I'm looking to buy a kit that the original owner has finished
most of the tail and part of a wing. A couple questions arise. What documentation
for sale to satisfy the FAA for certification is required? When I bought
my XL kit directly from ZAC I received a sales certificate that I had to include
a copy of to the FAA for certification. Who out there has bought a started
kit and successfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount
of work can be accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to be
granted a repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall pole"
in the tent because I would not own a plane I can't work on. Hope to hear
soon from some of you smart fellows. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>N505WP
>60===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Don't put it on to thick. I can see through my primer.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77939#77939
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
Hi Juan,
I think you could be mistaken on the 25 hour phase I test period for
LSA airplanes. We had one fellow get only 5 hours for a Kitfox last
year. The inspector (not DAR) felt the engine and propeller were
established (not certified, though) partners and decided a 5 hour
test period was appropriate.
On the Experimental-AB choice the minimum is 25 hours and 40 is
required if the power plant is considered a new combination or design.
I believe the down side of Experimental - LSA is the requirement for
the 2 day course for authority to sign off annual condition inspections.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 02:51 PM 11/29/2006, you wrote:
>I just am in process of registeting the plane on the famous -01 FAA
>paper. if amateur status, equals 40 hr fly off but
>repairman's certificate for annuals is literally automatic. Option
>two is LSA status which equals a 25 hour fly off, but would need to
>take 16hour repairman's license. You friend probably did what a lot
>of people have done, sign that it was 51% amateur built.
>
>Juan
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Buying a Partial Built Kit |
"documentation for sale to satisfy the FAA for certification is required"
Bill--
I bought my kit from an individual. You will need the FAA Bill of Sale
to be filled out by you and signed by the seller. In addition you will need
to call Zenith and have them send you a Bill of sale showing the sale to the
original purchaser. The government is looking for a complete chain of
ownership. The last question is tougher----it depends. Typically it depends
on how good you are at convincing the FAA inspector or DAR that you
assembled 51% of the kit. Remember you don't really have to have assembled
51% of all of the kit parts , only items that are listed as part of the 51%
effort. For example you would not have to have assembled all of the ribs,
just enough to understand how to do it etc.
Keep a good log and photos of your efforts
I've built 2 planes under these conditions and never had any issue with
the FAA.
Hope that helps
George May
601XL 912s 13 hours
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <zman601xl(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year... |
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: 2006/11/29 Wed AM 02:36:56 CST
Subject: Zenith-List: Just A Few Days Left; Trailing Last Year...
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response
has been very good, but we are behind last year in the number of people that have
made a Contribution and as a percentage of the total number of subscribers.
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt,
I'm a little late this year,but I should have a check in the mail by Friday.
Regards,Bob Haring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
just quoting what EAA specialists at EAA told me. 25hours LSA or 40 Amateur.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Sent: Nov 29, 2006 6:36 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Buying a Partial Built Kit
>
>
>Hi Juan,
>
>I think you could be mistaken on the 25 hour phase I test period for
>LSA airplanes. We had one fellow get only 5 hours for a Kitfox last
>year. The inspector (not DAR) felt the engine and propeller were
>established (not certified, though) partners and decided a 5 hour
>test period was appropriate.
>
>On the Experimental-AB choice the minimum is 25 hours and 40 is
>required if the power plant is considered a new combination or design.
>
>I believe the down side of Experimental - LSA is the requirement for
>the 2 day course for authority to sign off annual condition inspections.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>
>
>At 02:51 PM 11/29/2006, you wrote:
>
>>I just am in process of registeting the plane on the famous -01 FAA
>>paper. if amateur status, equals 40 hr fly off but
>>repairman's certificate for annuals is literally automatic. Option
>>two is LSA status which equals a 25 hour fly off, but would need to
>>take 16hour repairman's license. You friend probably did what a lot
>>of people have done, sign that it was 51% amateur built.
>>
>>Juan
>
>-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crackes in Firewall stiffeners... |
The XL has beefed-up the 601 firewall. It may give you some ideas on how to
strengthen that area.
GPJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)can.rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crackes in Firewall stiffeners... |
My upper firewall stiffener cracked and twisted a bit after 50 odd
hours. Probably one landing where the nose wheel caught on something.
I stop-drilled the crack and put angle stiffeners on the 45 degree ends
underneath and 25 thou material on top to extend the load farther in.
No further problems up to 585 hours.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
When I bought my wing kit partially assembled by somebody else, he had the forethought
to give me his ZAC bill of sale. See if you can get the same.
DaveG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77977#77977
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Juan,
I, like Patrick, am using Cortec initially because ZAC recommended it. Now I love
it because of it's lack of fumes when applying it. But if you put it on too
thick or slap it on roughly so it bubbles, there is some thickness to it that
I was also concerned about. I have scraped some off in places and re-applied
due to it being too thick.
DaveG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77978#77978
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Another thing you can practice is landings during takeoff. What I mean here is
practice your soft field take offs always. it helps you get the feel of the
plane just before lift / stall. This will become habit if you do them all the
time.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77995#77995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
Bill,
George is correct. You need an FAA bill of sale from every owner in the
chain; One from ZAC, and one from every previous owner.
However, if you already bought a kit from ZAC, you can register the aircraft
using the kit serial number and bill of sale provided by ZAC. Where individual
parts come from are of little concern. This truly is just a paperwork
drill - not for the weak hearted or time constrained...
Also, I noticed that someone has plans for sale on the list. When these
plans change hands, make life easier for the purchaser, and fill out an FAA bill
of sale for the plans. With those plans come a serial number for an aircraft.
Regardless if any parts were sold, a bill of sale will be required to register
the aircraft.
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | N601XT flies... for real this time... |
Gents,
Finally got the aircraft flight ready again this morning and took her up.
601 HDS / Conventional gear with aluminum spring
Corvair bored .060 over - standard WW conversion
Calsbad, Ca. SKC / 60 miles vis / 65 deg
Climb out was less than expected at about 800 FPM at 3000 rpm. The engine sputters
just a little bit at full throttle, so this is the performance cracked
just a bit from full. I have to tune in the aerocarb a little bit this week.
I am still indicating high oil temps, so a new sender is on order. Indicated
temps are not jiving with laser temp finder on the ground. It required full
right aileron trim to go hands off. More flight stuff to follow in the next few
days...
Some things to mention. DO NOT waste your money on Azusa brakes. They
couldn't slow a piss ant's motorbike. I bought a hydraulic disc upgrade from
GPSAC, and after a little bit of fab work to install, they work much better.
I still saved a few bucks from the Matco setup, but it was not worth the heartache.
Also, for the tailwheel folks, I would bypass the tailwheel from the plans
altogether. I installed the Matco full swiveling taiwheel this week, and
love it. It is a very good deal at under $150, and installation is a piece of
cake.
Someday I'll get somebody to take some pictures of the plane in flight and
forward them to the list...
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | xl <xl(at)prosody.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Buying a Partial Built Kit |
The form that you will use to verify that you did > 51% of the work is:
FAA FORM 8000-38, FABRICATION/ASSEMBLY OPERATION CHECKLIST
Go to www.faa.gov and search for 8000-38.
Even though I built from '51% kit' my DAR made me fill out the form
to 'verify' that I did >50% of the work.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XL, 408 hours
Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 49x64 wood prop
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com wrote:
> ....snip
> started kit and successfully got it through FAA ? Second question is what amount
> of work can be accomplished by the first builder that will still allow me to
> be granted a repairman's certificate when I get her flying? That is the "tall
> ....snip
> N505WP
> 601XL-3300
> 96 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
1) Today I am now officially 43 years old... (arg...)
2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-)
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and
no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support
their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way
to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
I will be posting the List of Contributors next week, so make sure your name is
on it! :-)
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly
appreciated.
List Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator Recommendations |
| From: | "Wingrider" <rwhitt3(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the post
for a while this is my first time writing in.
I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair
conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing
lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor
alternator is sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw
of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I shouldn't use
a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights.
I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive alternator. From
what Ive read it sounds like I should stick with the three wire alternators
and shy away from the one wire versions but are there recommendations for specific
alternators?
There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is a real
concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product to nullify
the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is there any news on
this product at this time?
Attached is my initial swag at my electrical loads.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78119#78119
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch601hds_electrical_loads_analysis1_852.xls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: CZAW Cowl Question Again |
Initially, in our CH601HD with R912S, the oil and coolant temperatures
were too high. Two fixes took care of the problem. The first was to
increase the airflow EXIT area by cutting out quite a bit of fibreglass.
An increased intake area won't do much if the exit area is too restricted.
The exit area must be much bigger than the intake area. [However, this
fix can be uncertain if the lower back exit area of the cowl has a
down-turning lip on it. This lip, if present, creates a low-pressure area
beneath the cowl to SUCK the hot air out. My point is, if this lip is
present on your cowl (it wasn't on mine, but I've seen it on a CZAW-built
601XL), I wouldn't mess with the exit area.] The second fix was to make
sure the intake duct was a close fit around the radiator so that the air
has to go through the rad, and cannot escape around the edges. We added
fibrglass strips to improve the close fit. We did NOT increase any intake
areas.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Waterloo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> why the Cortec might I ask?
When I went to the Rudder Workshop it's what Zenith used. Prior to the start of
the workshop they painted everyone's aluminum rudder pieces with Cortec.
So I figured I'd go with what they did and use it. I just didn't know if I should
put it on quite as thick.
I think there is an additional benefit to Cortec - it's sticky, and after the parts
are riveted together it will be like "rivets plus glue".
Would add more shear strength I would think. But would also harder to slide parts
around, like fitting a piano hinge between two skin sheets for example.
- PatrickW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78157#78157
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Alternator Recommendations |
I bought a 45 amp internally regulated alternator to install in my HDS Corvair,
and sold it after figuring out that there is no way to make it fit under the
nosebowl. If you are going with the WW Corvair conversion, the small dynamo is
the only thing that will fit. Your only other option is to mount the alt in
the back of the motor, which will require a little more work than just buying
parts from William and bolting them on. Not too much work, but more... IMHO,
load shedding, and possibly going with smaller lights, and LEDs when possible
would be easier than engineering your own alternator setup.
You can purchase the overvoltage protection unit from Bob. I have it installed
in my aircraft. After having a regulator fail in a Citabria, and frying the
battery, I like the idea of having built in overvoltage protection. He now
also has a low voltage indication BAMM unit now, but I know nothing about it other
than what it says on the website.
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Moore <soarmoore2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N601XT flies... for real this time... |
Brandon,
Congrats on getting airborne!
Noticed your tailwheel upgrade comments and wondered if you would share some
info on the Matco installation. I'm just starting on a 601XL taildragger and would
prefer a swiveling tailwheel versus the stock fixed wheel. I'd like to know
what was involved in the installation versus the fixed wheel, if it would be
a significant rework project if installed at a later date, and where I can find
additional info. Appreciate any response you send.
M2
Brandon Tucker wrote:
Gents,
Finally got the aircraft flight ready again this morning and took her up.
601 HDS / Conventional gear with aluminum spring
Corvair bored .060 over - standard WW conversion
Calsbad, Ca. SKC / 60 miles vis / 65 deg
Climb out was less than expected at about 800 FPM at 3000 rpm. The engine sputters
just a little bit at full throttle, so this is the performance cracked
just a bit from full. I have to tune in the aerocarb a little bit this week.
I am still indicating high oil temps, so a new sender is on order. Indicated
temps are not jiving with laser temp finder on the ground. It required full
right aileron trim to go hands off. More flight stuff to follow in the next few
days...
Some things to mention. DO NOT waste your money on Azusa brakes. They
couldn't slow a piss ant's motorbike. I bought a hydraulic disc upgrade from
GPSAC, and after a little bit of fab work to install, they work much better.
I still saved a few bucks from the Matco setup, but it was not worth the heartache.
Also, for the tailwheel folks, I would bypass the tailwheel from the plans
altogether. I installed the Matco full swiveling taiwheel this week, and
love it. It is a very good deal at under $150, and installation is a piece of
cake.
Someday I'll get somebody to take some pictures of the plane in flight and
forward them to the list...
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N601XT flies... for real this time... |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Congrats on your first flight. What prop and pitch do you have?
[quote="btucke73(at)yahoo.com"]Gents,
Finally got the aircraft flight ready again this morning and took her up.
601 HDS / Conventional gear with aluminum spring
Corvair bored .060 over - standard WW conversion
Calsbad, Ca. SKC / 60 miles vis / 65 deg
Climb out was less than expected at about 800 FPM at 3000 rpm. The engine sputters
just a little bit at full throttle, so this is the performance cracked
just a bit from full. I have to tune in the aerocarb a little bit this week.
I am still indicating high oil temps, so a new sender is on order. Indicated
temps are not jiving with laser temp finder on the ground. It required full
right aileron trim to go hands off. More flight stuff to follow in the next few
days...
Some things to mention. DO NOT waste your money on Azusa brakes. They
couldn't slow a piss ant's motorbike. I bought a hydraulic disc upgrade from
GPSAC, and after a little bit of fab work to install, they work much better.
I still saved a few bucks from the Matco setup, but it was not worth the heartache.
Also, for the tailwheel folks, I would bypass the tailwheel from the plans
altogether. I installed the Matco full swiveling taiwheel this week, and
love it. It is a very good deal at under $150, and installation is a piece of
cake.
Someday I'll get somebody to take some pictures of the plane in flight and
forward them to the list...
R/
Brandon
> [b]
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78178#78178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | 8.50x6.00 on 801 |
Dave
I have 8.50x6.00 tires on my 801. I had problems with flat tires until I modified
the rim to accommodate a normal 8.50x6.00 tube. There are not 8.50 tubes
that I could find with the 90 degree stem. The manufacture of the rim had a site
that showed how and where to drill the hole. I did it 3 years ago so the
site may no longer exist. If you need some pics let me know.
There is about 1/4" of clearance between the tire and the gear legs. I'm not sure
you could go much wider without re-engineering the wheel and brake attachment.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
375 hrs
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 801 Tire Clearance
801 People,
I haven't started my fuselage yet so I don't know the answer to this
question. What is the clearance between the wheels and the gear legs?
Both the mains and the nose. I assume 8.50 tires will fit, but I am
curious if anything larger will. If anyone knows, I would appreciate
knowing too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: Alternator Recommendations |
A rule of thumb is if you have a load meter then install loads only up
to
the capacity of the charging system. Without the load meter only
install to
80%. I guess the reverse is true... without a meter and 30A of
continuous
use ( everything on after starting) the generator/alternator should be
capable of producing 36A.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon
Tucker
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Alternator Recommendations
I bought a 45 amp internally regulated alternator to install in my HDS
Corvair, and sold it after figuring out that there is no way to make it
fit
under the nosebowl. If you are going with the WW Corvair conversion,
the
small dynamo is the only thing that will fit. Your only other option is
to
mount the alt in the back of the motor, which will require a little more
work than just buying parts from William and bolting them on. Not too
much
work, but more... IMHO, load shedding, and possibly going with smaller
lights, and LEDs when possible would be easier than engineering your own
alternator setup.
You can purchase the overvoltage protection unit from Bob. I have it
installed in my aircraft. After having a regulator fail in a Citabria,
and
frying the battery, I like the idea of having built in overvoltage
protection. He now also has a low voltage indication BAMM unit now, but
I
know nothing about it other than what it says on the website.
R/
Brandon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...? |
I would put it sparingly. Weight is one issue, going on thick has nominal return.
-----Original Message-----
>From: PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 30, 2006 10:25 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cortec thickness and Loose Rivets over time...?
>
>
>amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
>> why the Cortec might I ask?
>
>
>When I went to the Rudder Workshop it's what Zenith used. Prior to the start
of the workshop they painted everyone's aluminum rudder pieces with Cortec.
>
>So I figured I'd go with what they did and use it. I just didn't know if I should
put it on quite as thick.
>
>I think there is an additional benefit to Cortec - it's sticky, and after the
parts are riveted together it will be like "rivets plus glue".
>
>Would add more shear strength I would think. But would also harder to slide parts
around, like fitting a piano hinge between two skin sheets for example.
>
>- PatrickW
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78157#78157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
| From: | "zodieman" <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
Finally, some pictures of my installed cowl for anyone who wants to have a look
and comment:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78242#78242
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0884_168.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0883_368.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0882_957.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0868_716.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0866_184.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0865_155.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Calf-rope!! (anyone know what that means?) Here in Dallas, it is now 51 degrees
cooler than it was at this time yesterday! At 29 degrees, (no heat in the airplane
work area) I can't even squeeze a rivet puller. I know that makes me a
wimp, but, hey, we Southerners just aren't used to "yankee" weather. Enough
already, I'm ready for Winter to be over!
Jay in Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
Trevor Page / zodieman wrote:
>>I'm just completed the conversion of my 601HD to the CZAW cowl and
>>rad placement. It was very easy and it's a very nice kit. I
Just to confirm, what was the configuration before the change?
Was it the old under-fuselage rad placement?
I'm curious about the use of a more sophisticated cowl like this,
although who knows what supply there might be in the future, given
the end of CZAW's production for Zenair.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
(Original style cowl, rads moved into sides of cowl as Flypass used to do)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Mikesell" <skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough Already! |
Yeah Jay, I know where your saying. I was born and raised in the DFW area,
joined the army to get away to better places...well I spent 12 years in
Germany, not only did I hate the cold before.....now I despise it with a
passion!!
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Enough Already!
>
> Calf-rope!! (anyone know what that means?) Here in Dallas, it is now 51
> degrees cooler than it was at this time yesterday! At 29 degrees, (no
> heat in the airplane work area) I can't even squeeze a rivet puller. I
> know that makes me a wimp, but, hey, we Southerners just aren't used to
> "yankee" weather. Enough already, I'm ready for Winter to be over!
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough Already! |
I really don't blame you for complaining. Bad enough life has stuck you in
Texas, having a slight chill or any other discomfort is far too much to heap
on top of such a grave misfortune. Don't worry, you're bound to be back to
your normal misery soon enough.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Enough Already!
>
> Calf-rope!! (anyone know what that means?) Here in Dallas, it is now 51
> degrees cooler than it was at this time
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
| From: | "zodieman" <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
I spoke to CZAW about the availability and so far they're still more than happy
to supply kits and parts for 601s considering the firewall-forward system of
their SportCruiser is identical to the 601 system they developed.
On another note, I took some detailed measurements of my oil cooler and placement
and wouldn't you know it.. they are all perfect according to this article I
found:
http://www.ch601.org/resources/cooling_systems2.htm
Looks like maybe the folks in the Czech republic we're doing their homework! Even
though the placement, inlet size and distances are right I still have to make
up a plenum of sort to funnel the air into the oil cooler but It's worth a
try. I reckon I can whip that up in a few hours of glass work
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78275#78275
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
Is it just me not receiving mail from the list, or is it Comcast
blocking again?
Dave in Salem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
My primary flight instructor before I got my license in the 70's was a
crusty, crabby old ex-Marine flight instructor (I know, once a Marine,
always a Marine). It seemed that we spent more time on Emergency procedures
than basic flight. He had me learn very steep slips, simulated electrical
failures and engine off procedures. One time we flew out to a California
desert dry lake and he pulled back the throttle several miles away. This was
while I was plotting a new course. He had me follow through and actually
land on the lake bed. When I attempted to take off again from a full stop,
he pulled back the throttle again at about 500 feet. He then told me that
the scratch on the lake bed ahead was a "bunch of bushes" that I had to
avoid on landing again. We performed several "forced landings" and "aborted
take-offs" that day. On the way back to EMT (El Monte, CA) he pulled back
the throttle again over a rural part of town. He gave me power again at
about 200 feet over a deserted road. We had three more similar days before I
had my final check ride.
At the time, I was very irritated with him. Several years later, the
two-cycle engine seized in my B1RD ultralight and I had to make a forced
landing on a highway center meridian. When the engine quit, I calmly
remembered my training and experience and flew the ultralight all the way
down to a perfect landing. I was pleasantly surprised at how calm I was
during that emergency.
There is no better way to prepare yourself for an emergency than practice.
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson(at)verizon.net
Westminster, CA
601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no money for a kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco Tailwheel install: was Re: N601XT flies... for real |
this time...
Mike,
The installation was much simpler than the tailwheel from the plans, with
the exception of having to weld a little.
First, buy leaf spring #4 from here:
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/leafsprings.php
I had to weld about a 5" extention to it to get it to reach the forward
spring mount bolt. I kept most of the spring cool with a wet rag while welding
at the end. The part of the spring that "springs" did not lose any heat treating.
I'll try to get a picture of it and send it to you. I bought the solid
Matco tailwheel from here:
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/matco_tw.php
After flying it today, I think the inflatable wheel would be better. You
really feel the rough asphalt with the solid wheel. You then buy the spring
kit here:
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/comp_springs.php
Installation was less than 2 hours including welding an extension to the
spring. It was a very easy upgrade. -Much easier than scratch building the
tailwheel the first time...
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N601XT flies... for real this time... |
Gig,
I have the Warp Drive set at 8 deg at the tip. It yielded about 3000 on
takeoff today. I tried attaching pics, but Matronics denied... I will try to
get some pictures and video up on a website tonight for all to view.
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
If you ever have any doubts just go to the web interface to the list and see
if there are messages there that you haven't seen.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks Craig. I didn't know I could do that.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: No email.
If you ever have any doubts just go to the web interface to the list
and see if there are messages there that you haven't seen.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
| From: | "Wingrider" <rwhitt3(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
Thanks for the advice, it will be a while till I'm at the engine stage but I was
trying to figure out what I could use for landing lights before I closed up
the wings.
The advice on the AeroElectric group is the Suzuki Sameri alternator which looks
like a good option to me.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78368#78368
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
Peter, I had the same arrangement you have not (inside the cowl with
outside scoops a la Flypass).
Never worked right for me. This new system is much nicer and cleaner
looking and I got a few more Mph out of the deal...
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 30, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Peter Chapman wrote:
>
> Trevor Page / zodieman wrote:
>
>>> I'm just completed the conversion of my 601HD to the CZAW cowl
>>> and rad placement. It was very easy and it's a very nice kit. I
>
> Just to confirm, what was the configuration before the change?
> Was it the old under-fuselage rad placement?
>
> I'm curious about the use of a more sophisticated cowl like this,
> although who knows what supply there might be in the future, given
> the end of CZAW's production for Zenair.
>
>
> Peter Chapman
> Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC
> (Original style cowl, rads moved into sides of cowl as Flypass used
> to do)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N601XT flies... for real this time... |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
FWIW I'm pretty sure WW has his at 9 degrees.
[quote="btucke73(at)yahoo.com"]Gig,
I have the Warp Drive set at 8 deg at the tip. It yielded about 3000 on
takeoff today. I tried attaching pics, but Matronics denied... I will try to
get some pictures and video up on a website tonight for all to view.
R/
Brandon
> [b]
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78407#78407
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
| From: | "eedetail" <eedetail(at)qwest.net> |
The pair of 100w landing lights will be overkill in my opinion.
If money is no object go with a pair of HID lights. Xenondepot.com has
a pair for $469 plus shipping. Rated at 35w each, they draw less than 5 amps each.
One is as bright or brighter than a 100w bulb. No matter how much light a
landing light puts out, it only shows you what you are about to hit, nothing else.
TimE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78420#78420
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
The 35-watt automotive type lights I got from Harbor Freight for less than
$10 per pair seem to put out as much light as a 100-watt 4509 when I
compared them.
Robin in AR
N601ZV
----- Original Message -----
From: "eedetail" <eedetail(at)qwest.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations
>
> The pair of 100w landing lights will be overkill in my opinion.
> If money is no object go with a pair of HID lights. Xenondepot.com has
> a pair for $469 plus shipping. Rated at 35w each, they draw less than 5
> amps each. One is as bright or brighter than a 100w bulb. No matter how
> much light a landing light puts out, it only shows you what you are about
> to hit, nothing else.
> TimE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78420#78420
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Moore <soarmoore2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco Tailwheel install: was Re: N601XT flies... for |
real this time...
Brandon,
Thanks for the response/info. Will file for the present till I get working on
the fuselage and decide when I get closer to that point. Meanwhile, I'll watch
for any comments you publish concerning how your installation works out in actual
use.
Regards,
M2
Brandon Tucker wrote:
Mike,
The installation was much simpler than the tailwheel from the plans, with
the exception of having to weld a little.
First, buy leaf spring #4 from here:
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/leafsprings.php
I had to weld about a 5" extention to it to get it to reach the forward
spring mount bolt. I kept most of the spring cool with a wet rag while welding
at the end. The part of the spring that "springs" did not lose any heat treating.
I'll try to get a picture of it and send it to you. I bought the solid
Matco tailwheel from here:
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/matco_tw.php
After flying it today, I think the inflatable wheel would be better. You
really feel the rough asphalt with the solid wheel. You then buy the spring
kit here:
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/comp_springs.php
Installation was less than 2 hours including welding an extension to the
spring. It was a very easy upgrade. -Much easier than scratch building the
tailwheel the first time...
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MrBizi <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | fuel selector, flap control |
Does anyone know if a fuel selector with left/both/right/off would work (i.e.
like a C172) in the Zodiac? Trying to make the LSA Zodiac XL to train my brother
and having a "both" selector would help so he can focus more on the other
aspects of flying than worrying about which tank it is on.....
Also, does anyone now if it is possible (and where to get it) to put a Cessna
notched indent type Flap Selector on a Zodiac? Again, for ease of use when
learning it helps to be able to put a 1st notch of flaps and then focus your eyes
outside instead of flipping a switch.... watching the indicator... waiting
for 10 degrees.... then letting go of the switch to stop the flap movement.....
then looking outside...
Thanks for any advice anyone might have!
thanks,
Josh Olson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | fuel selector, flap control |
I recall a discussion about "both" being bad in low-wing aircraft. Something
perhaps about cross-flow between the tanks or problems when one tank is
empty. In general I think you only see "both" on high-wing aircraft. A real
Internet expert will now jump in, tell me I'm full of baloney and that he
flew for 10,000 hours with a both setting on his SR-71, etc.
As to the flap stuff take a look at this:
http://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-Plus.htm
And a less-expensive solution - a linear actuator ($70) and a controller
($50) that remembers preset positions:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557
<http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557&item=5-1577-2&ca
tname> &item=5-1577-2&catname
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557
<http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557&catname=&item=5-
1577-C> &catname=&item=5-1577-C
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Samm Munn" <heliav8r(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough Already! |
Mark Twain once said, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in
San Francisco."
----- Original Message -----
From: John Marzulli
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Enough Already!
I live in Seattle, lived north of Dallas, lived in Maryland, and been
to Alaska in the dead of winter... but to this day the coldest place
I've ever been is San Francisco. Something about the cold there just
chills you right through your bones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Russell <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
Boy did we have a discussion on this one when I was doing my fuel system. I went
with the both and yes there are some production low wings with both. One of
the problems that arise is that when on both and you are low in the tanks you
could suck air instead of fuel from the lower wing in a turn. I use a placard
that says not to use both with less than 1//3 tanks. The other problem is that
with both if you do run out in one tank which way do you turn the valve, left
or right. It takes a few seconds to start again and if you are close to the
ground you may not have those seconds. If you are on Left you know you need right.
I tend to switch the tank depending on the landing pattern to use the tank
that is the highest in turns. Jack
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Big Gee <taffy0687(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
????????????????????????????????????????????????=0A????????????????????????
????????????????????????=0A????????????????????????????????????????????????
=0A????????????????????????????????????????????????=0A?????????????????????
???????????????????????????=0A?????????????????????????????????????????????
???=0A=0AFritz=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: MrBizi <mrbizi@y
ahoo.com>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, December 1, 2006
1:03:58 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: fuel selector, flap control=0A=0A=0ADoes
anyone know if a fuel selector with left/both/right/off would work (i.e. l
ike a C172) in the Zodiac? Trying to make the LSA Zodiac XL to train my b
rother and having a "both" selector would help so he can focus more on the
other aspects of flying than worrying about which tank it is on.....=0A =0A
=0AAlso, does anyone now if it is possible (and where to get it) to put a
Cessna notched indent type Flap Selector on a Zodiac? Again, for ease of
use when learning it helps to be able to put a 1st notch of flaps and then
focus your eyes outside instead of flipping a switch.... watching the indic
ator... waiting for 10 degrees.... then letting go of the switch to stop th
e flap movement..... then looking outside...=0A =0AThanks for any advice an
=======================0A=0A=0A
=0A_______________________________________________________________________
_____________=0AWant to start your own business?=0ALearn how on Yahoo! Smal
l Business.=0Ahttp://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MrBizi <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | fuel selector, flap control |
Thanks for your help! Aircraftextras is a great site! Thanks for sharing
Craig Payne wrote: I recall a discussion about "both"
being bad in low-wing aircraft. Something perhaps about cross-flow between
the tanks or problems when one tank is empty. In general I think you only see
"both" on high-wing aircraft. A real Internet expert will now jump in, tell
me I'm full of baloney and that he flew for 10,000 hours with a both setting on
his SR-71, etc.
As to the flap stuff take a look at this:
http://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-Plus.htm
And a less-expensive solution - a linear actuator ($70) and a controller ($50)
that remembers preset positions:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557&item=5-1577-2&catname
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557&catname=&item=5-1577-C
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
| From: | "eedetail" <eedetail(at)qwest.net> |
Well, yes you are both correct.
As voltage drops, current increases in order to maintain the same power.
My less than 5 amp is based upon actual measurements last nite, using only battery
power, and an analog ammeter.
I found in actual practice that my 35w landing light will sometimes draw up to
5 amps and trip the breaker.
TimE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78464#78464
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
mrbizi(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Does anyone know if a fuel selector with left/both/right/off would work (i.e.
like a C172) in the Zodiac? Trying to make the LSA Zodiac XL to train my brother
and having a "both" selector would help so he can focus more on the other
aspects of flying than worrying about which tank it is on.....
>
I think the added concern over what to do when the engine stops because he is sucking
air out of an empty fuel tank out weighs worrying about which tank he is
needs to have selected.
If you want to reduce that concern during the first hours of training then just
manage the fuel for him until he has advanced further in learning to fly.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78465#78465
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MrBizi <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
Jack:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Great website!
Please let me know where you found the fuel selector that has 'both'
I think I might do the same as you.
I can manage the fuel when it gets down around 1/3 tank... but for a new pilot
like my brother... i'd prefer to have full tanks ALWAYS for him and have a 'both'
setting....
Thanks,
Josh
Jack Russell wrote:
Boy did we have a discussion on this one when I was doing my fuel system. I went
with the both and yes there are some production low wings with both. One
of the problems that arise is that when on both and you are low in the tanks you
could suck air instead of fuel from the lower wing in a turn. I use a placard
that says not to use both with less than 1//3 tanks. The other problem is
that with both if you do run out in one tank which way do you turn the valve,
left or right. It takes a few seconds to start again and if you are close to the
ground you may not have those seconds. If you are on Left you know you need
right. I tend to switch the tank depending on the landing pattern to use the
tank that is the highest in turns. Jack
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Josh,
How is training your brother in an aircraft with a dangerous fuel system design
in any way a good idea? There are DARs out there that wouldn't even signoff on
an airplane with that fuel system.
Tens of thousands of pilots have had primary training in aircraft that don't have
a "Both" position on the fuel selector.
Are you a CFI or a CFI-LS?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78472#78472
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
If the engine is not running you will only get about 11 - 11.5V from your
battery that will cause an increase in current draw. With the engine
running the buss should have around 13.8 - 14.4V th8us reducing the current
needed.
Circuit breakers protect from over current not wattage.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of eedetail
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:02 PM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations
>
>
>
> Well, yes you are both correct.
> As voltage drops, current increases in order to maintain the
> same power.
> My less than 5 amp is based upon actual measurements last
> nite, using only battery power, and an analog ammeter.
> I found in actual practice that my 35w landing light will
> sometimes draw up to 5 amps and trip the breaker.
> TimE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78464#78464
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clive Richards" <s.c.richards(at)homecall.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Crack in 601HD firewall stiffner 6F8-2 |
Gig
Photos attached as requested showing position of crack & cracked end with
stiffener removed. The piece which broke off is not to hand.
We have replaced stiffener but left end wider over engine mount and taken
strengthening angle above across full width of fire wall.
Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Crack in 601HD firewall stiffner 6F8-2
>
> Any way we can get a photo of the crack? I'd like to make sure I know
> exactly where it is developing.
>
> [quote="s.c.richards(at)homecall."]Hi list we have found a crack in the
> firewall stiffner near the port engine mount and have had to replace the
> stiffner
> We beleave this may be because we are using a Continental 0-200 & a
> header tank so are on a fairley forward C of G. > We have
> difficulty in Just lowering the nose on landing, it tends to want to drop
> when you remove the power. It is possably caused because to much we
> trimmed off the stiffner to fit the original faulty engine mount.
>
> > Clive Richards
>
> GCBDG 52 Hrs Estimated 250 T&G / Landings
>
>> [b]
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77620#77620
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crack in 601HD firewall stiffner 6F8-2 |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Thanks for the photos. The earlier poster was right the XL has beefed that area
up some But it will go on my list of places to watch anyway.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78509#78509
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)can.rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
Re this current vs. voltage vs. resistance stuff..
If the load is resistive, and the voltage drops, the current will DECREASE.
If the load is a motor, and the voltage drops, the current will usually be
higher as the motor will not reach full rpm.
Learned that 55 years ago..
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
on the flap etting, you can put a cessna type swith, just go to AIrcraft spruce.
OPtion two is to just count 1 one thousand etc, for flap setting. 2 seconds
on the 601 xl factory set up is 20 degrees. ABout as simple as youi can get.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Big Gee <taffy0687(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Dec 1, 2006 2:06 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel selector, flap control
>
>????????????????????????????????????????????????
>????????????????????????????????????????????????
>????????????????????????????????????????????????
>????????????????????????????????????????????????
>????????????????????????????????????????????????
>????????????????????????????????????????????????
>
>Fritz
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: MrBizi <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com>
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 1:03:58 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: fuel selector, flap control
>
>
>Does anyone know if a fuel selector with left/both/right/off would work (i.e.
like a C172) in the Zodiac? Trying to make the LSA Zodiac XL to train my brother
and having a "both" selector would help so he can focus more on the other
aspects of flying than worrying about which tank it is on.....
>
>
>Also, does anyone now if it is possible (and where to get it) to put a Cessna
notched indent type Flap Selector on a Zodiac? Again, for ease of use when learning
it helps to be able to put a 1st notch of flaps and then focus your eyes
outside instead of flipping a switch.... watching the indicator... waiting
for 10 degrees.... then letting go of the switch to stop the flap movement.....
then looking outside...
>
>Thanks for any advice an=====================
>
>
>
>Want to start your own business?
>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
some of the production Tomahawks have a (Both) setting. in normal level flight
with full tanks or with 1/2 tanks, not a problem. I can see maybe a problem
with air suction however that would be a problem on any plane including cessnas.
It all boils down to prefeence.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Russell <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Dec 1, 2006 2:03 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel selector, flap control
>
>Boy did we have a discussion on this one when I was doing my fuel system. I went
with the both and yes there are some production low wings with both. One of
the problems that arise is that when on both and you are low in the tanks you
could suck air instead of fuel from the lower wing in a turn. I use a placard
that says not to use both with less than 1//3 tanks. The other problem is that
with both if you do run out in one tank which way do you turn the valve, left
or right. It takes a few seconds to start again and if you are close to the
ground you may not have those seconds. If you are on Left you know you need
right. I tend to switch the tank depending on the landing pattern to use the tank
that is the highest in turns. Jack
>
>
>Jack Russell -Clovis CA
>601 XL Jabiru 3300
> Progress update at:
>http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | fuel selector, flap control |
Ho by the way my SR 71 has an autosellector. fuel system since I am too busy burning
a hole in the sky. :).
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Dec 1, 2006 1:32 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fuel selector, flap control
>
>I recall a discussion about "both" being bad in low-wing aircraft. Something
>perhaps about cross-flow between the tanks or problems when one tank is
>empty. In general I think you only see "both" on high-wing aircraft. A real
>Internet expert will now jump in, tell me I'm full of baloney and that he
>flew for 10,000 hours with a both setting on his SR-71, etc.
>
>As to the flap stuff take a look at this:
>
>http://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-Plus.htm
>
>And a less-expensive solution - a linear actuator ($70) and a controller
>($50) that remembers preset positions:
>http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557
><http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557&item=5-1577-2&ca
>tname> &item=5-1577-2&catname
>http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557
><http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 06120112260557&catname=&item=5-
>1577-C> &catname=&item=5-1577-C
>
>-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive pitch: was Re: N601XT flies... for real this |
time...
Gig,
I was initially told 9.5 deg from someone on the list. I then checked the
archives and read 8.5. I set it at 8 and am getting 2800 - 2900 rpm on takeoff.
I should be getting more. I know it is a carburetor issue. I will be
tuning it this weekend. It still sputters a bit at full throttle, so I run it
cracked from full. As soon as I get the carb right, I will reset the pitch.
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CZAW cowl question again |
| From: | "zodieman" <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
Here are some pictures of the oil cooler plenum. Basically it's an extension to
the air inlet on the bottom of the cowl. I'll be doing the final fitting and
sealer trimming tomorrow at the air strip.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78572#78572
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0901_203.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0900_100.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0897_211.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp0896_112.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive pitch: was Re: N601XT flies... for real |
this time...
To all,
do you guys and gals on the list want to get together January 13th at the Sebring
Sport pilot show? Should be a fun event. Can we get a little fly in going.
Its an excuse to come to sunny FLA,maybe play a light golf?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Dec 1, 2006 9:04 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Warp Drive pitch: was Re: N601XT flies... for real this
time...
>
>Gig,
>
> I was initially told 9.5 deg from someone on the list. I then checked
the archives and read 8.5. I set it at 8 and am getting 2800 - 2900 rpm on takeoff.
I should be getting more. I know it is a carburetor issue. I will be
tuning it this weekend. It still sputters a bit at full throttle, so I run it
cracked from full. As soon as I get the carb right, I will reset the pitch.
>
> R/
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
maybe I'm missing a crucial point, but if the voltage drops, then so does
the current - Ohm's Law
Dave Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations
>
> If the engine is not running you will only get about 11 - 11.5V from your
> battery that will cause an increase in current draw. With the engine
> running the buss should have around 13.8 - 14.4V th8us reducing the
> current
> needed.
>
> Circuit breakers protect from over current not wattage.
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of eedetail
>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:02 PM
>> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, yes you are both correct.
>> As voltage drops, current increases in order to maintain the
>> same power.
>> My less than 5 amp is based upon actual measurements last
>> nite, using only battery power, and an analog ammeter.
>> I found in actual practice that my 35w landing light will
>> sometimes draw up to 5 amps and trip the breaker.
>> TimE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78464#78464
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Recommendations |
Only if the resistance is constant.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Dave Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:09 AM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations
>
>
>
>
> maybe I'm missing a crucial point, but if the voltage drops,
> then so does
> the current - Ohm's Law
>
> Dave Johnson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:13 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations
>
>
>
> >
> > If the engine is not running you will only get about 11 -
> 11.5V from your
> > battery that will cause an increase in current draw. With
> the engine
> > running the buss should have around 13.8 - 14.4V th8us reducing the
> > current
> > needed.
> >
> > Circuit breakers protect from over current not wattage.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of eedetail
> >> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:02 PM
> >> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, yes you are both correct.
> >> As voltage drops, current increases in order to maintain the
> >> same power.
> >> My less than 5 amp is based upon actual measurements last
> >> nite, using only battery power, and an analog ammeter.
> >> I found in actual practice that my 35w landing light will
> >> sometimes draw up to 5 amps and trip the breaker.
> >> TimE
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78464#78464
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive pitch: was Re: N601XT flies... for real this |
time...
If it sputters a bit at full throttle you may have a problem with the timing
( you said you would be at that this weekend) or it could be something as
mundane as too low an octane rating in your fuel.... Try some high octane
stuff to be sure.
My Miata absolutely hates the cheapo stuff and pings all over the place....
If I buy my high octane gas at one of those non-dedicated pumps that last
gas pumped was low octane it will let me know... low octane fuel in the gas
hose is almost a gallon and the car only takes ten gal from empty. Now I
have to look for a gas station with a dedicated pump for high octane.
God only knows and he's not telling how it will react to the Eth degraded
fuel when and if it ever get here.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Warp Drive pitch: was Re: N601XT flies... for real
this time...
Gig,
I was initially told 9.5 deg from someone on the list. I then checked
the archives and read 8.5. I set it at 8 and am getting 2800 - 2900 rpm on
takeoff. I should be getting more. I know it is a carburetor issue. I
will be tuning it this weekend. It still sputters a bit at full throttle,
so I run it cracked from full. As soon as I get the carb right, I will
reset the pitch.
R/
Brandon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Dave-
Scratch build. Ask around the list- sooner or later, you wind up
scratch building something anyway, so don't use lack of funds as an
excuse. You're not the first! For a couple hundred bucks worth of sheet
stock, you can build your stab. At least you're making progress!
I remember an article in SP where Bingelis responded to people who
complained about not having a shop. At one time, he was stationed in
Japan, and the only "Shop" he had was a closet. Managed to fabricate the
wing ribs and other small parts for an Emaraude and eventually finished
it.
Like Red Green says- "We're all in there pulling for you."
Incidentally, I agree with your assessment of flight instructors. In
my opinion, if you don't come out of a biennial with your shirt sticking
to your back, you didn't get your money's worth.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Thompson
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience
My primary flight instructor before I got my license in the 70's was a
crusty, crabby old ex-Marine flight instructor (I know, once a Marine,
always a Marine). It seemed that we spent more time on Emergency
procedures than basic flight. He had me learn very steep slips,
simulated electrical failures and engine off procedures. One time we
flew out to a California desert dry lake and he pulled back the throttle
several miles away. This was while I was plotting a new course. He had
me follow through and actually land on the lake bed. When I attempted to
take off again from a full stop, he pulled back the throttle again at
about 500 feet. He then told me that the scratch on the lake bed ahead
was a "bunch of bushes" that I had to avoid on landing again. We
performed several "forced landings" and "aborted take-offs" that day. On
the way back to EMT (El Monte, CA) he pulled back the throttle again
over a rural part of town. He gave me power again at about 200 feet over
a deserted road. We had three more similar days before I had my final
check ride.
At the time, I was very irritated with him. Several years later, the
two-cycle engine seized in my B1RD ultralight and I had to make a forced
landing on a highway center meridian. When the engine quit, I calmly
remembered my training and experience and flew the ultralight all the
way down to a perfect landing. I was pleasantly surprised at how calm I
was during that emergency.
There is no better way to prepare yourself for an emergency than
practice.
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson(at)verizon.net
Westminster, CA
601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no money for a kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Ok, but the OP was trying to make things easier by having the BOTH setting. Having
to change fuel management style during the flight isn't any easier.
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> all,
>
> Zenith's news letter #122 dated Jan 2001 has an interesting report from a gent
in Switzerland on the fuel tank selector subject He states" Both position is
used until 1/2 tank. to assure pilot switches to one tank, blinking light warns
of half tank status. Below 25 liters a panel light warns of low tank.
>
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78656#78656
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Josh Olson" <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
Thanks for everyone's input on this. I've learned a great deal. I had no
idea that the kit had a preferred fuel selector or the flap control.
I have learned a great deal about the differences between the typical C172
which I'm used to and a low wing plane which I would be learning to fly
myself.
I now understand the point of fuel management with left/right and the issues
that are posed from a 'both' indicator on a low wing that doesn't have an
air channel between both tanks, etc.
I also appreciate the simple 1 thousand 1, 1 thousand 2, etc. for the flaps.
I did not know that the flap control in the Zodiac XL Kit worked like that
and now that I do it helps make something that I thought was more complex,
seem just as easy.
Thank you all for your patience with me and your input so that I could
learn.
Thanks,
Josh Olson
Email: mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: fuel selector, flap control
Ok, but the OP was trying to make things easier by having the BOTH setting.
Having to change fuel management style during the flight isn't any easier.
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> all,
>
> Zenith's news letter #122 dated Jan 2001 has an interesting report from a
gent in Switzerland on the fuel tank selector subject He states" Both
position is used until 1/2 tank. to assure pilot switches to one tank,
blinking light warns of half tank status. Below 25 liters a panel light
warns of low tank.
>
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78656#78656
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel selector, flap control |
| From: | "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch> |
For the flap control, look at this:
You can order it through:
Rgds Martin
Zodiac XL CZAW QBK
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78714#78714
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Hanley <bretttdc(at)yahoo.com> |
I once had a car that would cover four hundred miles without refueling. Tha
t's about six hours on a interstate highway. I did drive it that far witho
ut refueling once. But as an everyday action four hours is a long time to
sit in a luxury car. Four hours in a light plane is an ordeal. How big is
your bladder? Does anyone on this list ever or regularly fly their XL or 7
01 more than four hours on any leg? If so how often.=0A =0AA standard XL c
arries at least twenty gallons. For some reason I am thinking it may be tw
enty three gallons. I really do not remember. I do not think that any of
the popular engine choices burn more than about four gallons an hour. Usin
g that data we should get at least five hours of cruise as a general rule.
Of course it would be fool hearted to not to allow for a reserve. So lets
say we have four hours to cruise and can land with a more than generous res
erve. Unless we have been in a two hour bank neither tank should "suck air
" either.=0A =0ASo why not just plumb all the tanks together. Put one shu
t off valve in the cockpit. This way we can save some time,weight and mone
y. Then plan your flight so that you land with at least thirty minute's of
fuel. If that's not enough add a couple leading edge tanks and plumb th
em in with the rest as well. It just sounds simpler. In my not so humble op
inion this simplistic approach would breed far more safety than any possibl
e valve arrangement.=0A =0AI would love to hear some realistic feed back to
this simplistic approach. I am not an expert on fuel management but I thi
nk I am going to do this on mine.=0A =0ABrett Hanley=0ANW HOUSTON TEXAS=0A
=0APS If anyone is interested I am looking for a hanger mate on a small pri
vate airstrip near the intersection of Jones Road and FM1960. Home builders
welcome. If interested please contact me off list.=0A =0A713-589-9988=0A
=0A=0A =0A_________________________________________________________________
___________________=0ANeed a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people w
ho know.=0AAsk your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Bill Naumuk wrote: st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)
} Dave-
Scratch build. Ask around the list- sooner or later, you wind up scratch
building something anyway, so don't use lack of funds as an excuse. You're not
the first! For a couple hundred bucks worth of sheet stock, you can build
your stab. At least you're making progress!
I remember an article in SP where Bingelis responded to people who complained
about not having a shop. At one time, he was stationed in Japan, and the
only "Shop" he had was a closet. Managed to fabricate the wing ribs and other
small parts for an Emaraude and eventually finished it.
Like Red Green says- "We're all in there pulling for you."
Incidentally, I agree with your assessment of flight instructors. In my opinion,
if you don't come out of a biennial with your shirt sticking to your
back, you didn't get your money's worth.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Thompson
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience
My primary flight instructor before I got my license in the 70s was a
crusty, crabby old ex-Marine flight instructor (I know, once a Marine, always
a Marine). It seemed that we spent more time on Emergency procedures than
basic flight. He had me learn very steep slips, simulated electrical failures
and engine off procedures. One time we flew out to a California desert
dry lake and he pulled back the throttle several miles away. This was while
I was plotting a new course. He had me follow through and actually land
on the lake bed. When I attempted to take off again from a full stop, he
pulled back the throttle again at about 500 feet. He then told me that the
scratch on the lake bed ahead was a bunch of bushes that I had to avoid on
landing again. We performed several forced landings and aborted take-offs that
day. On the way back to EMT (El Monte, CA) he pulled back the throttle
again over a rural part of town. He gave
me power again at about 200 feet over a deserted road. We had three more similar
days before I had my final check ride.
At the time, I was very irritated with him. Several years later, the two-cycle
engine seized in my B1RD ultralight and I had to make a forced landing
on a highway center meridian. When the engine quit, I calmly remembered my
training and experience and flew the ultralight all the way down to a perfect
landing. I was pleasantly surprised at how calm I was during that emergency.
There is no better way to prepare yourself for an emergency than practice.
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson(at)verizon.net
Westminster, CA
601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no money for a kit.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience |
Dave,
Ditto....Bill talked me into scratch building after I had purchased tail and
wing kits. I am saving thousands of $$ just on the Center Section! The best
part though, there is ENORMOUS satisfaction from making every part!
Good luck with your project,
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Bill Naumuk wrote:
Dave-
Scratch build. Ask around the list- sooner or later, you wind up scratch
building something anyway, so don't use lack of funds as an excuse. You're
not the first! For a couple hundred bucks worth of sheet stock, you can
build your stab. At least you're making progress!.....
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson(at)verizon.net
Westminster, CA
601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no money for a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
> Carlos-
> I found that premade flannel bonnets work much better than anything
> else with my rotary polisher and the rough grits. Now I'm down to the
> final S compound and flannel tucked in under the elastic of a wool bonnet
> and there are certain spots that defy a final shine. The flannel loads up
> in no time, too. I scrap bonnets/swatches when they load up- Ma won't hear
> of putting them in HER washing machine! Contamination? After the C stage,
> I wiped the surface down with alcohol and paper towels to remove the
> excess.
> I'm starting to wonder if my problem is temperature related. My shop is
> heated with a ventless propane garage heater, but I'm reluctant to leave
> it burning when I'm not working. Maybe the aluminum is still cold-soaked
> even though the ambient temperature is comfortable.
> Have you noticed anything temperature related? I'll admit that with
> hunting season, getting ready for winter, and routine maintenance around
> the house I haven't been able to get my 13hrs a week in on the project but
> I've been polishing the C section since October!
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com>
> To: "Bill Naumuk"
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Too picky?
>
>
>> Hello, Bill
>>
>>
>> I think I went through that myself, but it was due to my specific working
>> conditions and method:
>> When I was using aluminum polishing compounds, the compound used on the
>> first pass left behind
>> deposits of very fine material (much like sand), and when I used the
>> compound for finishing,
>> since I was working on a flat, horizontal surface, I picked up those
>> deposits, and nasty swirls
>> ensued.
>>
>> In another occasion (using the famous Mother's paste), I was using cheap
>> paper towels, and those
>> were messing my finish. I learned my lesson, and now only use "expensive"
>> paper towels.
>>
>> So, in your case, I would look for (a) contamination or
>> (b)imperfections/roughness on the buffer
>> material itself (terry cloth bonnets? wool? felt?). You may need to
>> experimet with different
>> buffer on a test piece...
>>
>> Of course, there is the remote chance that you are pickier than I am...
>> ;-)
>>
>> Seriously, I hope this gives you some idea where to look for a fix.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> --- Bill Naumuk wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos-
>>> I can't seem to get the finish I want. I'm directly under
>>> fluorescent lights and I wonder
>>> if I'm not overdoing it. I'm to the point where I'll be polishing right
>>> through the skin if I'm
>>> not careful, and still can't get rid of the scratches.
>>> Thoughts?
>>> Bill Naumuk
>>> HDS Fuselage
>>> Townville, Pa
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | stick switches and fuel selector valve |
hi list
i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
wire, ect helpful hints are requested
also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
the valve is the one supplied with the kit
as for our English friend, remember the level of
acrimony is inversely related to the level of
intelligence of the poster.
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | stick switches and fuel selector valve |
Some have an "Ident" button for their transponder on the stick. I assume
they fly in controlled airspace a lot.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
Hi John,
There's a tendency to put switches at the fingertips, but I'd resist
more than the transmit switch for the
control stick. Trim is a once or twice issue during flight and would
place second to transmit activities.
The prospect of chasing a broken wire in the control stick after the
airworthiness is also a much larger
problem if an when it happens. The idea of mixing wires to
multifunction switches in the stick are best left
to the computer joystick where you can set at a table to fix the errant
connection. Being upside down in
a 601 isn't a pretty picture. Recommendation is to keep it simple and
put your trim switches on the panel
near the throttle and the remaining switches in an order that can be
memorized easily. I used colored shrink
tubing to differentiate pumps from aux battery, the EIS and so forth.
The o-ring is fuel proof, was probably greased before assembly and
likely will not leak the first 10 years.
Being in an aircraft probably suggested long term maintenance. I'd not
try to get to it unless it becomes
a problem or at least call the manufacturer for tech support.
Best regards,
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
john butterfield wrote:
>
> hi list
> i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
> on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
> switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
> wire, ect helpful hints are requested
>
> also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
> comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
> greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
> nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
> don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
> the valve is the one supplied with the kit
>
> as for our English friend, remember the level of
> acrimony is inversely related to the level of
> intelligence of the poster.
>
> john butterfield
> 601XL, corvair
> torrance, ca
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
Hello Fellow 801 Builders, (you other guys too)
Is the cargo pod I've seen pictures of a custom made installation or are
there plans somewhere. I'm not sure if I would need one but there is
probably mounting reinforcements that need to be installed in case I
decided to.
Dave in Salem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
I've had a five button Ray Allen grip on the front stick in an
ultralight for 3.5 years without any trouble. I will use a seven buttom
version on my left stick and a one button grip on the right stick in my
601XL. The PTT at the 'trigger" position is not one that is easily
accidentally activated unless you tend to be a bit clutzy. The elevator
and aileron trim button are easy to access and completely intutitve to
use. During the progress of a flight I change the trim as the fuel burn
changes the CG and as speed changes as well. I expect the same to be
true in the 601XL. In addition, I expect to use aileron trim to counter
fuel use from the wing tanks. Since the Zodiac is a lot faster and more
comfy than the UL, I expect to fly farther and longer on X-C flights.
Because of that, I will have the transceiver frequency toggle function
and the x-ponder Ident function wired to buttons on the left stick too.
These grips are not terribly difficult to wire, they don't screw up in
my experience, and the convenience is something I want to have. If you
have room on the panel for trim switches and don't mind reaching there
for those functions, keep your stick grip simple..... you can even put
your ptt buttom there. If you like convenience, get the button-infested
type of grip. I like the convenience.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL/Jabiru/baggage area
----- Original Message -----
From: john butterfield
To: Zenith-List Digest Server
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: stick switches and fuel selector valve
hi list
i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
wire, ect helpful hints are requested
also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
the valve is the one supplied with the kit
as for our English friend, remember the level of
acrimony is inversely related to the level of
intelligence of the poster.
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
torrance, ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
I also have the Allen 5 button handle grip on the CIP (left) side with only a
PTT button on the right side grip. Dual sticks. The wires are all very fine
size and need a protective sleve especialy at the bottom of the sticks. The
only recomendation I can make is that I wish I had installed a connector at the
bottom of each stick to make removing the sticks easier. Anytime you have to do
anything behind the pannel or down at the brakes the stick has to come out to
gain access. I did not install a connector when I built and it has been an
issue getting "down under." I really like having the four trim buttons on the
stick because I don't have to look away from flying or changes my hands to tune
the flight.
Best regards, Bill of Georgia
601xl - 3300
100 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
I have a PTT
Elevator trim up
trim down
Radio Memory select on right
Freq flip from stby to active on left
The radio buttons on stick can be changed to an aileron trim
easily if I add it later.
The right part of the Y stick just gets a PTT.
Brian
701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
PTT and trim if desired. Pain with all the wiring, I am just doing PTT on stick
and trim buttons by the throttle.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2006 12:28 PM
>To: Zenith-List Digest Server
>Subject: Zenith-List: stick switches and fuel selector valve
>
>
>hi list
>i am trying to decide what switches are really useful
>on the stick. i am going to use a radio transmit
>switch and perhaps an elevator trim. are they hard to
>wire, ect helpful hints are requested
>
>also, after looking at my fuel selector valve, it
>comes with loose screws and there is a reference to
>greasing the o-ring inside. i tried to pull the
>nozzle pieces out, but they are in very tight and i
>don't want to force them if no grease is necessary.
>the valve is the one supplied with the kit
>
>as for our English friend, remember the level of
>acrimony is inversely related to the level of
>intelligence of the poster.
>
>john butterfield
>601XL, corvair
>torrance, ca
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)core.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Too picky? |
Bill,
I don't think you have a temperature problem I did my wings in the
unheated attic of my garage in February. They were on the floor and I
worked around them with pads on my knees. It was below freezing during
part of that time.
Tim Shankland
Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>
>> Carlos-
>> I found that premade flannel bonnets work much better than
>> anything else with my rotary polisher and the rough grits. Now I'm
>> down to the final S compound and flannel tucked in under the elastic
>> of a wool bonnet and there are certain spots that defy a final shine.
>> The flannel loads up in no time, too. I scrap bonnets/swatches when
>> they load up- Ma won't hear of putting them in HER washing machine!
>> Contamination? After the C stage, I wiped the surface down with
>> alcohol and paper towels to remove the excess.
>> I'm starting to wonder if my problem is temperature related. My
>> shop is heated with a ventless propane garage heater, but I'm
>> reluctant to leave it burning when I'm not working. Maybe the
>> aluminum is still cold-soaked even though the ambient temperature is
>> comfortable.
>> Have you noticed anything temperature related? I'll admit that
>> with hunting season, getting ready for winter, and routine
>> maintenance around the house I haven't been able to get my 13hrs a
>> week in on the project but I've been polishing the C section since
>> October!
>> Bill Naumuk
>> HDS Fuselage
>> Townville, Pa
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com>
>> To: "Bill Naumuk"
>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Too picky?
>>
>>
>>> Hello, Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I went through that myself, but it was due to my specific
>>> working conditions and method:
>>> When I was using aluminum polishing compounds, the compound used on
>>> the first pass left behind
>>> deposits of very fine material (much like sand), and when I used the
>>> compound for finishing,
>>> since I was working on a flat, horizontal surface, I picked up those
>>> deposits, and nasty swirls
>>> ensued.
>>>
>>> In another occasion (using the famous Mother's paste), I was using
>>> cheap paper towels, and those
>>> were messing my finish. I learned my lesson, and now only use
>>> "expensive" paper towels.
>>>
>>> So, in your case, I would look for (a) contamination or
>>> (b)imperfections/roughness on the buffer
>>> material itself (terry cloth bonnets? wool? felt?). You may need to
>>> experimet with different
>>> buffer on a test piece...
>>>
>>> Of course, there is the remote chance that you are pickier than I
>>> am... ;-)
>>>
>>> Seriously, I hope this gives you some idea where to look for a fix.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>> --- Bill Naumuk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos-
>>>> I can't seem to get the finish I want. I'm directly under
>>>> fluorescent lights and I wonder
>>>> if I'm not overdoing it. I'm to the point where I'll be polishing
>>>> right through the skin if I'm
>>>> not careful, and still can't get rid of the scratches.
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> Bill Naumuk
>>>> HDS Fuselage
>>>> Townville, Pa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: N601XT flight photos |
If only the plane was as fast as it looks! The guys around here tease me about
the flames, but hell, my 4 year old is impressed...
I put a couple of hours on the plane today after tinkering with the carburetor
and swapping out the temperature sender. The oil temp never broke 200
on climb out, and was between 180 and 190 the whole flight. CHT's were actually
a little cool at cruise, until I leaned out the carburetor a bit. I have to
adjust it for tomorrow's flight. It is flying very well so far. I'll get some
better performance numbers after I wear-in the engine.
R/
Brandon
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tebenkof(at)aol.com |
Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the POH
for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the fact
that the paper work is not.
Jim Greenough
701 / 99.5321% complete
in Portland OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "laurens ackerman" <lackerma(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Grand Rapids Horizon I |
Does anyone in this list have any experience with the
Grand Rapids Horizon I EFIS and EIS?
--
Laurens Ackerman
lackerma(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID MILLER" <tigermiller1595(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Rotec radial engine? |
Has anybody looked at using one of those 110 hp Rotec radials on a 60
1 XL? Anyone got any knowledge or experience with them or the company
? =0AThanks=0ADave Miller =0A(scratch build 601 XL)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: stick switches and fuel selector valve |
The supplied fuel selector was shipped without the screws in the right and
left line inlets to allow you to rotate them if necessary, If you don't have to
rotate them just put the screws back in and hook it up, I had to pull mine
out and rotate them so the fittings would be tight and pointed in the right
direction. the are hard to pull out and mine had plenty of grease in them
already. The reason they rotate is so you don't have to over tighten the fitting
and cause damage or crack the housing.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com> |
Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may
already have one.
Larry, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Tebenkof(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for
the POH for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke
up the fact that the paper work is not.
Jim Greenough
701 / 99.5321% complete
in Portland OR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/28/2006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neitzel" <n963wb(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotec radial engine? |
Greetings,
Seriously considered the Rotec radial for my 701, would really have
looked and sounded neat. Talked with representatives while at Oshkosh
and they were very informative and had nothing but good comments for
their product. At the time there were not a lot of these engines out so
not much of a track record. I eventually rejected the radial in favor
of the 2200 Jabiru because that installation is 100 pounds lighter.
After a long summer of other projects I am finally able to get back to
pulling rivets. Need to finish the flaperons and slats then can start
final assembly.
Dick Neitzel
Sayner, WI
701 Jabiru
N962WB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
Man , I'm glad I never had any of those !! (yeah, right)
Pilot Operating Handbook. LOW&SLOW John
Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may
already have one.
Larry, www.skyhawg.com
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> |
There's a 701 Flight Manual "Sample" on the Zenith builder's page for the 701.
It's from CZAW and should be a great place to start.
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79033#79033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
Pilot's Operating Handbook (They used to be called owner's manuals)
On Dec 4, 2006, at 10:02 AM, LRM wrote:
> Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I
> may already have one.
>
> Larry, www.skyhawg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | nyterminat(at)aol.com |
Larry,
You are required to have one. Pilot Operating Handbok
Bob Spudis
-----Original Message-----
From: lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Sent: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may already have
one.
Larry, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Tebenkof(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the POH for
my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the fact that
the paper work is not.
Jim Greenough
701 / 99.5321% complete
in Portland OR
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
Date: 11/28/2006
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Skin Access |
Why not post the file to the file archive section of this list?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
Dudes,
if you go on line or get a DVD disk from zenith, they have a copy of the Chech
rotax powered POH. you can use that as a template then inject usefull tidbits
of info in your own to customize it. Example" here in florida I put in the POH
Pretake off check list "prior to entering active runway, make certain no
Alligators in eccess of ten feet in length are on runway", once that is checked
I then go to "confirm Coyotes are off the taxiway prior to taxiing to active".
True Story to both.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: nyterminat(at)aol.com
>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 11:16 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>
>Larry,
>
>You are required to have one. Pilot Operating Handbok
>
>Bob Spudis
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: lrm(at)skyhawg.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:02 AM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>
>
>Ok, I'm having a brain fart. What's a POH? I may want one or I may already have
one.
>
>Larry, www.skyhawg.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Tebenkof(at)aol.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
>
>
>Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for the POH for
my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke up the fact that
the paper work is not.
>
>Jim Greenough
>701 / 99.5321% complete
>in Portland OR
>
>
>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
>
>
>Date: 11/28/2006
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Young" <armyret(at)mchsi.com> |
Jim- The POH is basically the same as the Information Manual you find
in any 172. Contains General info on the aircraft; Normal Op
proceedures; Performance; Weight and Bal; System descriptions; handling
service & Maintenance; Emerg proceedures etc etc. I bought a great
manual from ACFT Spruce a few years ago, but cannot find it in their
catalog now. It was Published by Brown Aircraft Supplies of Burbank,
CA. It was designed for experimental aircraft, and all you had to do is
fill in the blanks basically. I also put my builders log in it and
flight test log. If you can find a source for this manual it's more
than worth the money.
Al Young
N601AY
----- Original Message -----
From: Tebenkof(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 POH
Any kind soul out there who can steer me to an appropriate model for
the POH for my 701? The building work is just about done. I just woke
up the fact that the paper work is not.
Jim Greenough
701 / 99.5321% complete
in Portland OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotec radial engine? |
| From: | "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net> |
You mean like this?
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/MickDye.htm
Two other things to keep in mind when chosing Rotec vs an engine like Jabiru: it
uses reduction gear and I think it only has a 1000 hour TBO.
Eddie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79095#79095
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaybannist(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Forward Skin Access |
Craig, Done. According to Dralle, it might not be available for a while. If you
want to see it earlier, just let me know.
Jay
"Craig Payne" wrote:
>
>Why not post the file to the file archive section of this list?
>
>-- Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID MILLER" <tigermiller1595(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Rotec radial engine? |
Has anybody looked at using one of those 110 hp Rotec radials on a 60
1 XL? Anyone got any knowledge or experience with them or the company
? =0AThanks=0ADave Miller =0A(scratch build 601 XL)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotec radial engine? |
Eddie,
Niether the rotec nor the Jabiru have GEar reduction, The TBO on the jabiru is
1000 on the top end only. Rotec is a great engine though.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net>
>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 2:03 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rotec radial engine?
>
>
>You mean like this?
>http://www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/MickDye.htm
>
>Two other things to keep in mind when chosing Rotec vs an engine like Jabiru:
it uses reduction gear and I think it only has a 1000 hour TBO.
>
>Eddie
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79095#79095
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotec radial engine? |
| From: | "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net> |
See 1st and 5th bullet from the top. Rotec has a 3:2 Planetary Speed Reduction
Unit.
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/specs.htm
Eddie
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> Eddie,
> Niether the rotec nor the Jabiru have GEar reduction, The TBO on the jabiru is
1000 on the top end only. Rotec is a great engine though.
>
> Juan
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79114#79114
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotec radial engine? |
>> Niether the rotec nor the Jabiru have GEar reduction...
Oh?
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/engdev.htm
"It was apparent that the R2800 despite its good direct drive
characteristics could benefit from a small amount of propeller speed
reduction as is the case with most small capacity engines. Rotec Engineering
spent the next period designing and manufacturing their new planetary PSRU
which was carefully designed to fit neatly into front nose with minimal
disruption to the out side dimensions. They called on the help of well known
Australian aero-engineer Bill Whitney to do some calculations regarding the
new design. "Bill is simply the best, we are in debt to him, few have his
knowledge about all facets of aviation dynamics, he has been very generous
in his willingness to help our new company get ahead particularly regarding
technical issues".
The (PRSU) as mentioned earlier is in planetary configuration, at a
reduction ratio of 3:2 so engine revs are relatively low when compared to
the high revving ratios other manufactures employ." They are literally
trying to wring the last drop of HP from their small capacity engines".
Ratios approaching 4:1 are not uncommon amongst some manufactures.
The first tests on the new geared R2800 proved to be nothing short of a
revelation; the propeller diameter went from the direct drive 68" to 76"
with more pitch than before. The PSRU had allowed the R2800 to realise more
potential as the engine had 'unloaded', the propeller range had increased
dramatically allowing for more user flexibility."
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Skin Access |
A number of builders have made almost all of the forward skin removable. For
one example take a look at the pictures on Larry's site under "Canopy":
www.macsmachine.com
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Forward Skin Access |
>> I am also thinking of cutting and trimming the "head chopping" sun leadge
on the panel...
I'm planning on replacing the whole control panel lip with silicon baffle
material. The front skin will stop flush with the control panel.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotec radial engine? |
| From: | "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net> |
I just received my "The 912 Competition" video. It shows how Rotec is put together.
Nice workmanship. Looks like almost everything is CNC'ed at their shop. But
the planetary gears looks a bit too thin, unless that's a norm in aviation
for that size engine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79127#79127
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Skin Access |
To make the aft edge of the forward skin more user friendly you can buy an appropriate
length of clear poly tubing at a local hardware store, split it lengthwise,
inject it with clear silicon sealer and slip it onto the edge. Cheap, lightweight,
easy, and stays put once set.
Ed
---- Juan Vega wrote:
>
>
> Jay,
>
> that looks pertty cool. I like it. I was thinking on putting the entire piece
on nutplates so the whole thing would come off. Am I missing something that
would not make that possible? I think yours maybe better idea becasue you don't
have to remove the canopy. I am also thinking of cutting and trimming the
"head chopping" sun leadge on the panel, and replacing it with a leather one
like on Cessnas. I found a place that can custom make one for cheap price.
ANy thoughts?
>
> Juan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Josh Olson" <mrbizi(at)yahoo.com> |
Folks...
Does anyone know where I can get a list of what is included in the 2006
CH601XL QBK? (It has to be the 2006 version since the earlier QBKs had
less stuff completed from what I can tell.)
I want to know exactly what is in the kit and then I want to know exactly
what else I'd need to buy/build to get a fully functioning plane. It
doesn't seem like I can find that anywhere.
I'm looking to build a XL just like the demo one they have on the
Zenith website... with these particulars...
Jabiru 3300, Dual Dynon displays D100 EFIS, D120 EMS, Trutrack ADI Autopilot
w/ Alt hold, Garmin GPSMAP 496, SL30 Nav/Com, GTX330 Transponder, PS
Engineering Intercom, BRS Parachute... these items I can find and source...
The issue I'm having is getting a detailed list of what comes in the 2006
Quick Build Kit.... I need to know what comes with it (i.e. does upholstery?
Its not in the standard kit but the picture of the QBK on the website shows
upholstery... what else do I need to get a plane finished and up flying?)
Also, does anyone know if the 51% rule would allow me to get a Quick Build
Kit and still have a local A&P install my Jabiru 3300 and have a local paint
shop paint the plane and still have it qualify for the 51% rule?
Thanks,
Josh Olson
Email: mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Camera question |
| From: | "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net> |
Asking a point and shoot camera to capture 10 megapixels with a small 1/2.5" to
1/1.8" CCD might be too much right now. Most of them do better in the 8 megapixle
or less range. Megapixles is not as determining factor for the end photo
as are the size of CCD and the type of processor. DSLRs normally have a larger
CCD. The one in my EOS 5D is the same size as a 35mm film frame.
Depends on how much you want to spend, as far as image quality goes Canon S80,
A740 and Fuji E900 would be on the top of my list. See reviews on steves-digicams.com
(read his conclusions on each camera). You need to decide for yourself
what size, what zoom range (I prefer 28mm in the wide angle because I photograph
landscapes), what functions, what kind of memory, what kind of file format,
etc. etc. And don't be fooled by things like "Leica" or "Zeiss" written on lenses
of Japanese cameras. Most of those lenses are made in Japan, not Germany.
As far as point and shoot cameras go Canon, Nikon, Fuji and Olympus are generally
good lens manufacturers.
Eddie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79145#79145
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com> |
ZAC did provide a POH at one time when you sent in a picture of yopur
completed a/c. Given them a try.
Carl. 701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Scratch Builders,
I am making the end caps for the fuel tanks and wanted to ask others about forming
the corners. Should I shrink the metal and have a corner all around? Or,
just form the flanges and leave the corners out and fill with weld?
I made some parts with 5mm constant flange, but had to anneal the corners to get
the 6061 T6 material to flow. The parts look OK just didn't know about fatigue
in the corners.
What do you think?
Pictures attached at the forum
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79162#79162
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_end1_152.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_end_631.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotec radial engine? |
shit................ I owe you a beer. Do you drink Dos XX?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 3:25 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Rotec radial engine?
>
>
>>> Niether the rotec nor the Jabiru have GEar reduction...
>
>Oh?
>
>http://www.rotecradialengines.com/engdev.htm
>
>"It was apparent that the R2800 despite its good direct drive
>characteristics could benefit from a small amount of propeller speed
>reduction as is the case with most small capacity engines. Rotec Engineering
>spent the next period designing and manufacturing their new planetary PSRU
>which was carefully designed to fit neatly into front nose with minimal
>disruption to the out side dimensions. They called on the help of well known
>Australian aero-engineer Bill Whitney to do some calculations regarding the
>new design. "Bill is simply the best, we are in debt to him, few have his
>knowledge about all facets of aviation dynamics, he has been very generous
>in his willingness to help our new company get ahead particularly regarding
>technical issues".
>
>The (PRSU) as mentioned earlier is in planetary configuration, at a
>reduction ratio of 3:2 so engine revs are relatively low when compared to
>the high revving ratios other manufactures employ." They are literally
>trying to wring the last drop of HP from their small capacity engines".
>Ratios approaching 4:1 are not uncommon amongst some manufactures.
>
>The first tests on the new geared R2800 proved to be nothing short of a
>revelation; the propeller diameter went from the direct drive 68" to 76"
>with more pitch than before. The PSRU had allowed the R2800 to realise more
>potential as the engine had 'unloaded', the propeller range had increased
>dramatically allowing for more user flexibility."
>
>-- Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Skin Access |
Juan,
You needn't use nut plates for such a panel. J-nuts that work with 6-32
screws can be used with considerable confidence. They are much cheaper
and don't let go. I've got them on my removable forward top skin and
I've had the top off probably a dozen times in two years and 85 hours of
flying my 601. On the leading edge overhanging the panel, I bent a
piece of 1/2-inch aluminum tube and used a Dremel cutter to cut a slit
on the edge and used 4 bent tabs to secure it with the same screws that
hold the forward top skin.
It's a much easier job, as you use almost 90 screws, but very secure and
the screws blend into the rivet heads.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/uclips.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/firstcowlfitting.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Juan Vega wrote:
>
>
> Jay,
>
> that looks pertty cool. I like it. I was thinking on putting the entire piece
on nutplates so the whole thing would come off. Am I missing something that
would not make that possible? I think yours maybe better idea becasue you don't
have to remove the canopy. I am also thinking of cutting and trimming the
"head chopping" sun leadge on the panel, and replacing it with a leather one
like on Cessnas. I found a place that can custom make one for cheap price.
ANy thoughts?
>
> Juan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Ends |
Ron,
A nice shape to work with, but I'd reverse the ends placing the flanges
under the main skins as you've done so that the heat
you put into welding is better distributed between the cap flange and
the edge of the main skins. 6061-T6 is not the best material
for a tank as applies to a welded construct. 5052-H32 is ideal as it's
yield to work hardening is better for holding its shape.
You're corners will fill easily the way you've got them, but if
reversed, a little easier. You can put more material into the weld if
you've got 1/8-inch of drum hanging outside the main skin edge and the
edge won't burn away so readily as the edge weld of a typical flange-
weld would. Practice a lot before you ruin the first set of tanks by
making sample welds to proof your skills or that of the guy you entrust
to the job. I welded the tanks with clecos and then removed the clecos
one by one and welded them shut. If you want to make the job of welding
much easier, make the ends out of .040 if you haven't already as less
than that is difficult to control heat- distortion and get consistent welds.
Best of luck,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Ron Lendon wrote:
>
> Scratch Builders,
>
> I am making the end caps for the fuel tanks and wanted to ask others about forming
the corners. Should I shrink the metal and have a corner all around? Or,
just form the flanges and leave the corners out and fill with weld?
>
> I made some parts with 5mm constant flange, but had to anneal the corners to
get the 6061 T6 material to flow. The parts look OK just didn't know about fatigue
in the corners.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Pictures attached at the forum
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79162#79162
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_end1_152.jpeg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_end_631.jpeg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Skin Access |
great website by the way, you need to send me the plans for that kick ass recumbant
Bike!
Do you have close up pics of the portion of the turtle deck you riveted, the very
end pieces adjacent to the canopy screw. I like your idea.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
>Sent: Dec 4, 2006 8:09 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access
>
>
>Juan,
>You needn't use nut plates for such a panel. J-nuts that work with 6-32
>screws can be used with considerable confidence. They are much cheaper
>and don't let go. I've got them on my removable forward top skin and
>I've had the top off probably a dozen times in two years and 85 hours of
>flying my 601. On the leading edge overhanging the panel, I bent a
>piece of 1/2-inch aluminum tube and used a Dremel cutter to cut a slit
>on the edge and used 4 bent tabs to secure it with the same screws that
>hold the forward top skin.
>It's a much easier job, as you use almost 90 screws, but very secure and
>the screws blend into the rivet heads.
>
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/uclips.gif
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/firstcowlfitting.gif
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>Juan Vega wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> that looks pertty cool. I like it. I was thinking on putting the entire piece
on nutplates so the whole thing would come off. Am I missing something that
would not make that possible? I think yours maybe better idea becasue you
don't have to remove the canopy. I am also thinking of cutting and trimming the
"head chopping" sun leadge on the panel, and replacing it with a leather one
like on Cessnas. I found a place that can custom make one for cheap price.
ANy thoughts?
>>
>> Juan
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tebenkof(at)aol.com |
Thanks for all the help with the POH. POO ON HOOD was enlighteningl, and the
other ideas even better.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)core.com> |
Some time back there were several threads on a couple of topics, one was
whether the prop would windmill with he engine off and another on how
well the 601 glided with a stopped prop. I now find myself in a more
knowledgeable position on these topics. Last Saturday I was returning
from an uneventful test flight on my 601HD. I have 25 hours on it and I
had flown a three airport round robin of about 1 1/2 hours. I had just
announced that I was entering downwind on my home airport and there was
that smell you never want to smell, smoke in the airplane. I had the
heater near full on, it was in the 30's (F) at altitude and had a good
air flow I quickly also open the pilot side vent. My Stratus Suburu is
set up with two batteries and all switches are two position center off
rockers so I can load either BUS A or BUS B. The ignition switch with
the primary ignition and fuel pump was on BUS A the secondary ignition
was on BUS B. The secondary fuel pump was still off since I hadn't
gotten into the pattern yet. When the smoke started I tried turning off
BUS B, the engine faltered, I turned it back on the it picked up again
only to stop a few seconds later. The good thing was that the smoke had
started to dissipate and it was real quiet in the airplane I tried the
ignition key to restart but the started wouldn't work. Since by this
time I was about 900 feet above the ground and with the runway off to
the left of the airplane I quit working with the engine and decided to
land the airplane. I Called to all traffic that I was executing a dead
stick approach , fortunately there was no one in the pattern. I must say
that I did one of my better landing and coasted off at the intersection
on on to the taxi way. Since apparently no one at the airport was
listening to the radio no one came out so I just grabbed my wounded bird
by the prop and walked to back to the terminal.
Now for my observations,
first NOTHING will get your attention like smoke
second there is something surreal when the prop stops turning and your
still in the air
Additional observations I was doing between 80 and 90 mph when the
engine quit, the prop stopped and did not windmill, maybe it will at
higher speed but I wasn't going to give away any altitude to find out.
The 601 HD glided better this the engine stopped then it does with a low
RPM, it really landed very nicely and I may experiment with more very
low RPM landings.
As for what happened, I opened up the top of the panel tonight and it
was one of those how could that ever happen things. A plug that I use
connect to two switches in my canopy for an alarm panel got its open
back side positioned to touch on unused terminal on the ignition switch
that was obviously hot. That caused a ground through that wire. I hadn't
put a circuit breaker in the primary ignition circuit because of a
concern I had for false tripping, I am going to add one because having
the engine stop with no smoke is preferable to stopping with smoke. I am
also going to add a emergency starter circuit, I already have a separate
ignition and fuel pump circuit but since engine wind milling is not
assured I want to be able to do all engine functions independent of the
primary ignition circuit. The short only burned for a few seconds then
a small wire in that circuit burned open. this cut all power to the
primary ignition and fuel circuit, since the secondary ignition was on
the engine continued but without the secondary fuel pump it soon quit.
Without a starter available it was not possible to restart the engine.
Anyway when I got home my wife asked how everything went, and I told her
I had some excitement, she never likes it when I say that.
Tim Shankland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Skin Access |
Juan,
I built the bike with my daughter when I was teaching her to gas weld
this summer. It's a freehand design from three bikes.
The piece you speak of is well photographed in the canopy pages. The
j-nuts were purchased from McMaster-Carr and
I'll get the numbers for you tomorrow morning. These j-nuts cost about
$10.00 per package of 50.
Larry
Juan Vega wrote:
>
> great website by the way, you need to send me the plans for that kick ass recumbant
Bike!
> Do you have close up pics of the portion of the turtle deck you riveted, the
very end pieces adjacent to the canopy screw. I like your idea.
>
> Juan
> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
>> Sent: Dec 4, 2006 8:09 PM
>> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forward Skin Access
>>
>>
>>
>> Juan,
>> You needn't use nut plates for such a panel. J-nuts that work with 6-32
>> screws can be used with considerable confidence. They are much cheaper
>> and don't let go. I've got them on my removable forward top skin and
>> I've had the top off probably a dozen times in two years and 85 hours of
>> flying my 601. On the leading edge overhanging the panel, I bent a
>> piece of 1/2-inch aluminum tube and used a Dremel cutter to cut a slit
>> on the edge and used 4 bent tabs to secure it with the same screws that
>> hold the forward top skin.
>> It's a much easier job, as you use almost 90 screws, but very secure and
>> the screws blend into the rivet heads.
>>
>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/uclips.gif
>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/firstcowlfitting.gif
>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
>>
>> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>> Juan Vega wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay,
>>>
>>> that looks pertty cool. I like it. I was thinking on putting the entire piece
on nutplates so the whole thing would come off. Am I missing something that
would not make that possible? I think yours maybe better idea becasue you
don't have to remove the canopy. I am also thinking of cutting and trimming
the "head chopping" sun leadge on the panel, and replacing it with a leather one
like on Cessnas. I found a place that can custom make one for cheap price.
ANy thoughts?
>>>
>>> Juan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john H" <professor71(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
Hi List
I have a very small oil leak on a 912 (200hrs) which is aggravating the heck
out of me. After flying I have a little oil showing up around the fuel pump,
around the gear box and blowing back on the battery box on the firewall. I
just can't seem to find the leak. Oil pressure is fine. Any ideas anyone??
Thanks
John
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com> |
| Subject: | 801 inflight breakup in 2003 |
Just from what I've read here on the list (and archives), the
accident is still a little mysterious and perhaps a bit of a sore
spot in that there's little evidence available to support different
theories. On the one hand there's still suspicion about the elevator
extension, on the other hand it may just be the pilot playing around
and overstressing the aircraft.
The NTSB documents are pretty sparse. (# LAX03FA102) They don't go
into any detail at all, and there was no interest even in describing
any probable breakup sequence. It is also difficult to interpret the
NTSB's description of damage to various parts, as to which direction
the wing and tail parts failed.
The elevator extension is mentioned but not commented on. The Factual
Report quotes an FAA publication, stating "Amateur builders are free
to develop their own designs or build from existing designs. We do
not approve these designs and it would be impractical to develop
design standards for the wide variety of design configurations,
created by designers, kit manufacturers, and amateur builders." So
in the end they are seem to be saying, "looking at the structural
failure in detail is not our problem".
The NTSB report didn't state that the pilot was "heavily impaired by
narcotics", but said that chemical traces were consistent with
smoking at least one joint within 12 hours. They were trying to be
somewhat precise, since for the passenger, they said the same but
within 2 hours. So unless there's other evidence, I wouldn't call the
pilot "heavily" impaired, although one can still make inferences
about his attitude towards the flight if one wishes.
Back when the accident happened, it sounded like Ben Haas was hoping
to examine the wreckage or otherwise get further info from the
investigators, but I guess no further info could be obtained?
Presumably Zenair had nothing more to add?
Maybe the importance of all this is less now for 801 owners, given
that there's a newer design extended horizontal tail (stab &
elevator) that presumably is beefed up over both the original short
span tail and the Flypass elevator extansion?
I don't have any particular angle on all this; I was just curious
about the implications of a couple recent posts mentioning the accident.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 801 Elevator Extension |
I don't want to get anything started, but what's this about an elevator
extension? I've heard here and there that 801's run out of elevator on
landing. I don't know if it's true or not since mine's not done yet. I
got my tail this year. Are the newest tails different than the previous
ones. Would someone fill me in please?
Dave in Salem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor(at)triton.net> |
| Subject: | 801 Elevator Extension |
Dave:
Zenith added about 6" on each end of the 801 stabilizer about May 2004. I
decided to go that route even though I had my stab already done. I made the
first one as a test for Zenith. I never flew with the shorter stab, so have
no comparison. Zenith also up graded their demo to the new size. The reason
given for the change was that most builders were using larger engines with
more weight.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 Oil Leak |
Perhaps a bad seal on the PTO? Have you checked the gasket on the
fuel pump housing? The fuel pump is driven by the gearbox so maybe
you have a leak there..
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Dec 4, 2006, at 11:55 PM, john H wrote:
>
> Hi List
> I have a very small oil leak on a 912 (200hrs) which is aggravating
> the heck out of me. After flying I have a little oil showing up
> around the fuel pump, around the gear box and blowing back on the
> battery box on the firewall. I just can't seem to find the leak.
> Oil pressure is fine. Any ideas anyone??
> Thanks
> John
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces
> friends list.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Question for gas welders. |
What type of filler rods should be used to gas weld 6061-T6?
I need to start practicing my welds so I have the skills developed by the
time I have to make my tanks sometime next year.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 Oil Leak |
Hi John,
Had a simmilar problem and traced it to the fuel pump gasket/spacer. A dab
of hi temp sealer solved the problem.
Carl 701 912 with 450 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 801 Elevator Extension |
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the information. I was getting one part mixed up with the
other. I was thinking that the elevator itself was extended back. Like
the nose to the trailing edge, where the trim tab goes, was made longer.
Is running out of elevator on landing a "real" issue. Seems like if it
is, it would hamper any really short landings. What's your experience?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Faulkner
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:30 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 Elevator Extension
Dave:
Zenith added about 6" on each end of the 801 stabilizer about May
2004. I decided to go that route even though I had my stab already done.
I made the first one as a test for Zenith. I never flew with the
shorter stab, so have no comparison. Zenith also up graded their demo to
the new size. The reason given for the change was that most builders
were using larger engines with more weight.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 801 inflight breakup in 2003 |
Within a week of the accident I called the LA division of the Faa that w
as doing the investigation, Spoke with the lead guy and he went strictly
by the protocal and didn't speculate on the crash. I told him I was a c
urrent builder and was asking some questions for about a dozen other bui
lders. He did say and I quote " if you are building one of thses planes
I would be VERY concerned". My next question to him was, can I look over
the wreckage either by myself or with you present, he said they were a
bout to conclude their inspection of the wreckage and that I would need
to contact the next of kin for permission. The 17 year old daughter was
not in a frame of mind to even talk to so I called the airplane wrecking
yard that the debris was in. He told me that if I pay the, at that time
, current charges of retrieval and storage which was then 1845.00$ I cou
ld come look at it and then to call the insurance company to try to buy
the stuff. They never called back.... and I never drove to California to
look.
Several of us 801 builders almost daily chatted on Yahoo messenger so we
set up a group chat and brainstormed for several hours on what we knew.
I did call the TV reporter who flew ovewr the site and filmed the wreck
age for the evening news, he was a 5000+ pilot and knew what he was talk
ing about.
Our concensis of the senerio was this, the plane was probabl;y doing aer
obatics, most probably a loop, as all the 801 builders know the elevator
is fastened on by a single pivot bolt in the middle and two little pins
on each end. Those pins are captured by those this aluminum triangle pi
eces riveted on to the end of the Horizontal stabilizer. The loading of
the elevator sheared off the the tip extensions, that sent the the eleva
tor and probably the horizontal stabilizer into the rudder, shearing it
off, the plane then instantly went nose down, then failed both wings in
the negative G axis and the fuselage then lawn darted another two+ miles
till it hit the farm field. It was hard for us to believe how a plane t
hat flies at maybe 100mph could scatter itself over that wide of an area
but the 14,000 agl that Mark mentioned explains that.
What apparently happened when ZAC introduced the 'NEW" larger horizontal
stab was to use a longer spar to carry the load, not just add on tip ex
tensions.
signs and it would be impractical to develop
design standards for the wide variety of design configurations,
created by designers, kit manufacturers, and amateur builders." So
in the end they are seem to be saying, "looking at the structural
failure in detail is not our problem".
The NTSB report didn't state that the pilot was "heavily impaired by
narcotics", but said that chemical traces were consistent with
smoking at least one joint within 12 hours. They were trying to be
somewhat precise, since for the passenger, they said the same but
within 2 hours. So unless there's other evidence, I wouldn't call the
pilot "heavily" impaired, although one can still make inferences
about his attitude towards the flight if one wishes.
Back when the accident happened, it sounded like Ben Haas was hoping
to examine the wreckage or otherwise get further info from the
investigators, but I guess no further info could be obtained?
Presumably Zenair had nothing more to add?
Maybe the importance of all this is less now for 801 owners, given
that there's a newer design extended horizontal tail (stab &
elevator) that presumably is beefed up over both the original short
span tail and the Flypass elevator extansion?
I don't have any particular angle on all this; I was just curious
about the implications of a couple recent posts mentioning the accident.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Within a week of the accident I called the LA division of the F
aa that was doing the investigation, Spoke with the lead guy and he went
strictly by the protocal and didn't speculate on the crash. I told him
I was a current builder and was asking some questions for about a dozen
other builders. He did say and I quote " if you are building one of thse
s planes I would be VERY concerned". My next question to him was, can I
look over the wreckage either by myself or with you present, he sa
id they were about to conclude their inspection of the wreckage and that
I would need to contact the next of kin for permission. The 17 year old
daughter was not in a frame of mind to even talk to so I called the air
plane wrecking yard that the debris was in. He told me that if I pay the
, at that time, current charges of retrieval and storage which was then
1845.00$ I could come look at it and then to call the insurance company
to try to buy the stuff. They never called back.... and I never drove to
California to look.
Several of us 801 builders almost daily chatted on Yahoo messenger so
we set up a group chat and brainstormed for several hours on what we kn
ew. I did call the TV reporter who flew ovewr the site and filmed the wr
eckage for the evening news, he was a 5000+ pilot and knew what he was t
alking about.
Our concensis of the senerio was this, the plane was probabl;y doing
aerobatics, most probably a loop, as all the 801 builders know the eleva
tor is fastened on by a single pivot bolt in the middle and two little p
ins on each end. Those pins are captured by those this aluminum triangle
pieces riveted on to the end of the Horizontal stabilizer. The loading
of the elevator sheared off the the tip extensions, that sent the the el
evator and probably the horizontal stabilizer into the rudder, shearing
it off, the plane then instantly went nose down, then failed both wings
in the negative G axis and the fuselage then lawn darted another two+ mi
les till it hit the farm field. It was hard for us to believe how a plan
e that flies at maybe 100mph could scatter itself over that wide of an a
rea but the 14,000 agl that Mark mentioned explains that.
What apparently happened when ZAC introduced the 'NEW" larger horizon
tal stab was to use a longer spar to carry the load, not just add on tip
extensions.
signs and it&n
bsp;would be impractical to develop
design&
nbsp;standards for the wide variety of des
ign configurations,
created by designers, k
it manufacturers, and amateur builders."
So
in the end they are seem to&nb
sp;be saying, "looking at the structural <
BR>failure in detail is not our problem".<
BR>
The NTSB report didn't state that t
he pilot was "heavily impaired by
narc
otics", but said that chemical traces were
consistent with
smoking at least one&
nbsp;joint within 12 hours. They were tryi
ng to be
somewhat precise, since for&n
bsp;the passenger, they said the same but&
nbsp;
within 2 hours. So unless there's
;other evidence, I wouldn't call the
p
ilot "heavily" impaired, although one can
still make inferences
about his attitude&nb
sp;towards the flight if one wishes.
Bac
k when the accident happened, it sounded&n
bsp;like Ben Haas was hoping
to examin
e the wreckage or otherwise get further&nb
sp;info from the
investigators, but I
guess no further info could be obtained?&n
bsp;
Presumably Zenair had nothing more to&n
bsp;add?
Maybe the importance of all thi
s is less now for 801 owners, given&n
bsp;
that there's a newer design extended&nb
sp;horizontal tail (stab &
elevator) th
at presumably is beefed up over both
the original short
span tail and the&n
bsp;Flypass elevator extansion?
I don't have&
nbsp;any particular angle on all this; I&n
bsp;was just curious
about the implications
of a couple recent posts mentioning
the accident.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON&nbs
========================
-- Please Support&nb
p; (And Get Som
;November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.&
link below to find out more about
http://www.craftontull.com/images/emailsignature_block1.gif"
border=0>