Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-gl
January 24, 2007 - February 07, 2007
that came with the kit. I am still looking (dreaming) into putting the Dynon
EFIS onto the panel if I can afford it. If I go that way I will need a new
tube for the Angle of A stuff will I not?
so should I wait till I have made up my mind or will the new size tube fit over
the old Zenith tube holes??? I would hate to have to patch my new bottom wing
skin before first flight.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90057#90057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: zenith pitot tube V's Dynon tube |
Hi Chris
I have an LRI rather than the Dynon pitot tube, but I would guess the
hose requirements are similar. I have two hoses that run from the
LRI into the fuselage.
I mounted both the LRI probe and pitot tube on inspection plates so
they don't get broken while moving the wing around. If you do this,
you can probably run new tubes later.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 06:05 AM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi all
>come on, yes it was the middle of the night when I mixed up L angles
>and hat stiffeners..
>
>I am about to drill the holes for instalation of the normal zenith
>tubes and hoses that came with the kit. I am still looking
>(dreaming) into putting the Dynon EFIS onto the panel if I can
>afford it. If I go that way I will need a new tube for the Angle of
>A stuff will I not?
>
>so should I wait till I have made up my mind or will the new size
>tube fit over the old Zenith tube holes??? I would hate to have to
>patch my new bottom wing skin before first flight.
>
>Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Handheld GPS? |
Hello Lind,
Aviation handhelds are the better choice when it comes to ruggedness and reliability.
I would nevertheless recommend to check out pocketfms for PDA/GPS combos.
It is a powerful moving map navigation solution with a VERY dedicated commmunty.
A number of volunteers maintain the data of every country. Norways airspace
structure is fully covered and maintained AFAIK.
The software and moving map data is for free (!) Donors of more than 50 Euros/60
$ get conveniant zip files and additional weather data .
Check out www.pocketfms.com
to alex: Schickes Cockpit, D-M... oder D-E...?
Cheers
Peter
601HDS TD VW conversion
Tail complete, wings in progress
www.petersprojekt42.de
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90113#90113
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve & Kim Kurash" <stevekimk(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing mis-information |
Actually Jon it does matter. Especially the leveling of the aircraft
along the A-E reference line ( I stand corrected Bob). This is because
of the wing dihedral. If the wing had no dihedral there would be no need
to level along A-E. Try this explanation, on your plane with wings and
struts installed, string a line from wingtip to wingtip at the rivet
line. Get on a ladder and look down from above at the string and rivet
line relationship. Notice, that as you move your eye a little forward,
then rearward, that you can make the string line appear as if it is not
in line with the rivet line. It will look like the wings are either
swept forward or swept aft. The dihedral causes this effect.
Alternatively, you could drop the tail of the plane by blocking up the
nose wheel and view your string line/rivet line. I'll bet it looks like
your wings are swept back! N.B. If it looks like the rivet line IS in
line with the rivet line, then your eye is not exactly 90 degrees over
the string line, or your wings are in fact NOT perfectly aligned. Any
way, back to the point, if you were setting the wing incidence in this
condition (tail low) you would move the wing tips forward until the
string line and rivets were aligned and then drill the aft mounting
holes IN THE WRONG LOCATION. So............ in order to set the wing
incidence in the fore and aft dimension (i.e. neither swept forward on
backward) you must level the aircraft along A-E and view the
string/rivet line relationship from EXACTLY above the string (90
degrees).
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
Hi all,
I am seeking a little clarification to the 701 wing rigging issue... I
dont understand the need for all of this fuselage leveling... I agree
with Zed's procedure (and have used it quite successfully) of wing
rigging.... notice that all adjusting is done in reference to the
fuselage itself or the opposite wing.. nothing I noticed entails rigging
in relationship to 'level' with the earth. You could complete Zed's
procedure with the fuse sitting on a sloped parking ramp.... kinda
similar to the issue of making 'sure' your table is level before
building your wings!! (Does it make a difference?)
So - I am simply looking for understanding on how leveling helps the
wing rigging process... inquiring minds want to know!
Thanks!
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
Steve
Not on the upper longerons, there is an A-E reference line that you
must create to level the fuselage, see
7-F-2. The upper longerons have a slight curve to them when installed
on the side skins. You also might want to think about blocking the
fuselage level in all axis, the tires and spring/ bungee gear will move
as you put weight on them. Why chase the level with a moving fuselage?
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/100 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing mis-information |
...the elimination of parallax error is one of the things involved. In some ways,
this is specifically the reason why it is so critical to have the plane leveled
according to the designers requirements when doing a weight and ballance.
Steve & Kim Kurash wrote: Actually Jon it does matter.
Especially the leveling of the aircraft along the A-E reference line (
I stand corrected Bob). This is because of the wing dihedral. If the wing had
no dihedral there would be no need to level along A-E. Try this explanation,
on your plane with wings and struts installed, string a line from wingtip to
wingtip at the rivet line. Get on a ladder and look down from above at the string
and rivet line relationship. Notice, that as you move your eye a little forward,
then rearward, that you can make the string line appear as if it is not
in line with the rivet line. It will look like the wings are either swept forward
or swept aft. The dihedral causes this effect. Alternatively, you could
drop the tail of the plane by blocking up the nose wheel and view your string
line/rivet line. I'll bet it looks like your wings are swept back! N.B. If it
looks like the rivet line IS in line with the rivet
line, then your eye is not exactly 90 degrees over the string line, or your wings
are in fact NOT perfectly aligned. Any way, back to the point, if you were
setting the wing incidence in this condition (tail low) you would move the wing
tips forward until the string line and rivets were aligned and then drill
the aft mounting holes IN THE WRONG LOCATION. So............ in order to set the
wing incidence in the fore and aft dimension (i.e. neither swept forward on
backward) you must level the aircraft along A-E and view the string/rivet line
relationship from EXACTLY above the string (90 degrees).
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
Hi all,
I am seeking a little clarification to the 701 wing rigging issue... I
dont understand the need for all of this fuselage leveling... I agree
with Zed's procedure (and have used it quite successfully) of wing
rigging.... notice that all adjusting is done in reference to the
fuselage itself or the opposite wing.. nothing I noticed entails rigging
in relationship to 'level' with the earth. You could complete Zed's
procedure with the fuse sitting on a sloped parking ramp.... kinda
similar to the issue of making 'sure' your table is level before
building your wings!! (Does it make a difference?)
So - I am simply looking for understanding on how leveling helps the
wing rigging process... inquiring minds want to know!
Thanks!
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
Steve
Not on the upper longerons, there is an A-E reference line that you
must create to level the fuselage, see
7-F-2. The upper longerons have a slight curve to them when installed
on the side skins. You also might want to think about blocking the
fuselage level in all axis, the tires and spring/ bungee gear will move
as you put weight on them. Why chase the level with a moving fuselage?
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/100 hrs
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Burns" <lsapilot(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Where could that part be... |
My second faux pas.
I was near the end of the elevator build, and I couldn't find the horn
doubler 6T3-6.
I went back through my entire inventory to track it down, to no avail. I
did have the "L" bracket _leftover_ from that part of the kit. After
examing the plans in greater detail, I realized what I did.
I don't know it it was just too late, or I was relying on the photo assembly
reference too much, but it seems that I cut up 6T3-6, as the "L" bracket for
6T3-2.
A call went to Zenith the next AM to have a new $4.00 piece ol AL shipped
Blue...
Fun!
Jon Burns
_________________________________________________________________
Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing mis-information |
Steve, David, and all,
I appreciate your input on this...
I do understand the error in visual preception that occurs when you are
not viewing the rivet line at exactly 90 degrees from above...
This is why I will still suggest that the best way (for me, anyway.. and
I respect others' way of dealing with this) is to NOT level the plane in
any direction but rather use a measuring tape, which is not affected by
parallax errors or trying to determine an exact 90 degree observation
vantage (because you WILL be on a ladder trying to attempt this
observation). The measurement of a point on both wing tips to a common
point on the fuselage will determine with great accuracy the proper
alignment of the wings. No guessing here.. I agree wholeheartly with
Steve about viewing the rivet line and seeing it move when you start
lifting the wings.. or moving your head to the left or right....that is
precisely why I don't like to to make judgements from what I see when
the angle of sight is so critical. I start by leveling each wing to
each other (not the ground!) and then adjust each wing to match (to the
millimeter using a tape) from that far point on the fuselage near the
tail to each wing tip. When this is done (and use a helper to confirm
accuracy), drill the tabs. Of course, watch your edge distances...
Your last detail is to raise both wings to the specs in the plans..
which, again have no basis on level to earth, rather they are measured
with a ruler to points between the fuse and wings.
Nothing wrong with eyeballing things for confirmation and comfort, but I
rather use a ruler to make the final adjustments.
I do NOT have the final word on this, but am simply expressing my
understanding of what is in my head at this time. I look forward to
more discussion on this if you think I have it wrong. Sometimes, what
works best for each of us may be different -- and thats OK ! (I am not
saying you are wrong to level things -- just that it creates no
advantage for my method, and might cause confusion in the least)
You guys are the best!
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
...the elimination of parallax error is one of the things involved. In
some ways, this is specifically the reason why it is so critical to have
the plane leveled according to the designers requirements when doing a
weight and ballance.
Steve & Kim Kurash wrote:
Actually Jon it does matter. Especially the leveling of the
aircraft along the A-E reference line ( I stand corrected Bob). This is
because of the wing dihedral. If the wing had no dihedral there would be
no need
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: zenith pitot tube V's Dynon tube |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Just made my Dynon Pitot standoff. It will be permanently mounted on the left
wing when riveting the wing skin. The pluming will be accessible through the
wing locker. The Dynon Pitot won't be in place till assembly at the Airport.
Still going to have to be careful moving that wing around though.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90245#90245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing mis-information |
And I did forget (sorry!) to mention that I use the string (also used
for dihedral setting) to determine when the rivet lines are matched from
wing to wing (to make sure the wings are not swept forward or aft). The
string will be touching the rivet lines so it is easy to see this
adjustment.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
Steve, David, and all,
I appreciate your input on this...
I do understand the error in visual preception that occurs when you
are not viewing the rivet line at exactly 90 degrees from above...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jpspencer(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | 701 elevator upper limit stop |
I didn't find an upper limit stop either but in my plane so far the back
of the control stick against the edge of the seat has worked ok.
Joe
701 69 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing mis-information |
I hope you are leveling the fuse also otherwise you may endup with a
parrallel wings and fuse not level
To make it easy it is best to level and square fuse before this critical
stage of setting up wings.
you are setting up
front of wings mount position at same height.
wings parralell in forwards and backwards direction
angle of incidence front mount point to back mount point
Dihedral at front of wing.
angle of incedence at both outer wings
so you need to get it right
Graeme bell
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
Steve, David, and all,
I appreciate your input on this...
I do understand the error in visual preception that occurs when you
are not viewing the rivet line at exactly 90 degrees from above...
This is why I will still suggest that the best way (for me, anyway..
and I respect others' way of dealing with this) is to NOT level the
plane in any direction but rather use a measuring tape, which is not
affected by parallax errors or trying to determine an exact 90 degree
observation vantage (because you WILL be on a ladder trying to attempt
this observation). The measurement of a point on both wing tips to a
common point on the fuselage will determine with great accuracy the
proper alignment of the wings. No guessing here.. I agree wholeheartly
with Steve about viewing the rivet line and seeing it move when you
start lifting the wings.. or moving your head to the left or
right....that is precisely why I don't like to to make judgements from
what I see when the angle of sight is so critical. I start by leveling
each wing to each other (not the ground!) and then adjust each wing to
match (to the millimeter using a tape) from that far point on the
fuselage near the tail to each wing tip. When this is done (and use a
helper to confirm accuracy), drill the tabs. Of course, watch your edge
distances... Your last detail is to raise both wings to the specs in
the plans.. which, again have no basis on level to earth, rather they
are measured with a ruler to points between the fuse and wings.
Nothing wrong with eyeballing things for confirmation and comfort, but
I rather use a ruler to make the final adjustments.
I do NOT have the final word on this, but am simply expressing my
understanding of what is in my head at this time. I look forward to
more discussion on this if you think I have it wrong. Sometimes, what
works best for each of us may be different -- and thats OK ! (I am not
saying you are wrong to level things -- just that it creates no
advantage for my method, and might cause confusion in the least)
You guys are the best!
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 wing mis-information
...the elimination of parallax error is one of the things involved.
In some ways, this is specifically the reason why it is so critical to
have the plane leveled according to the designers requirements when
doing a weight and ballance.
Steve & Kim Kurash wrote:
Actually Jon it does matter. Especially the leveling of the
aircraft along the A-E reference line ( I stand corrected Bob). This is
because of the wing dihedral. If the wing had no dihedral there would be
no need
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
24/01/2007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: zenith pitot tube V's Dynon tube |
Chris,
The Dynon Pitot probe replaces the standard
Zenith dynamic probe. It acts as an aoa probe as
well. You will have to run a third line for static
pressure, for a total of 3. I placed my static port
in the aft fuselage, but that is builder preference.
I mounted the probe under the baggage locker,
allowing for easy access, and delayed installation. I
cut the holes and fabricated the mounts, but did not
rivet into place until the wings were mounted for the
last time. Having a probe hanging down makes it a
real pain in the ass to transport. -More so than you
might think...
VR/
Brandon
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Cutting out trim tab? |
Gang:
I'm at the point where I need to cut out the elevator trim tab from a
built elevator. I have all the lines carefully marked and would like to
hear some technique suggestions for making these cuts.
My own idea is to split or cut out the trailing edge between the end
lines (with a band saw?), cut the end lines with shears, drill out the
aft two middle-rib rivets, and finally cut the top and bottom spanwise
lines by scoring with the laminate knife and breaking out the sections.
Other ideas?
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Cutting out trim tab? |
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/tools.htm"http://www.ch601.org/tools.htm
HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch601.org/tools/olfa.htm"http://www.ch601.org/tools/olfa.htm
Use the Olfa pad wan !!!!!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew
Elliott
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting out trim tab?
Gang:
I'm at the point where I need to cut out the elevator trim tab from a
built elevator. I have all the lines carefully marked and would like to
hear some technique suggestions for making these cuts.
My own idea is to split or cut out the trailing edge between the end
lines (with a band saw?), cut the end lines with shears, drill out the
aft two middle-rib rivets, and finally cut the top and bottom spanwise
lines by scoring with the laminate knife and breaking out the sections.
Other ideas?
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
1/24/2007 6:48 PM
--
1/24/2007 6:48 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out trim tab? |
Hi Andy,
Its been a while since I did that one, but here is what I think I would do now.
First, stop drill the inside corners with something like a 1/4"
drill. Then I would use a fairly large step drill - perhaps 3/4" or
7/8" to make a starting point for the shears. I would drill this in
the waste material perhaps 1" from the final cut line. Then it is a
matter of cutting with the shears. The first cuts would leave about
1/4" to the final cut line, and then I would work my way closer to
the final line until I was there. Perhaps the last few thousandths
in some areas would be done with a file rather than the
shears. Clean up the edges with a smooth file and it is done.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 07:53 PM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
>Gang:
>
>I'm at the point where I need to cut out the elevator trim tab from
>a built elevator. I have all the lines carefully marked and would
>like to hear some technique suggestions for making these cuts.
>
>My own idea is to split or cut out the trailing edge between the end
>lines (with a band saw?), cut the end lines with shears, drill out
>the aft two middle-rib rivets, and finally cut the top and bottom
>spanwise lines by scoring with the laminate knife and breaking out
>the sections.
>
>Other ideas?
>
>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>N601GE (reserved)
>601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out trim tab? |
I drilled the corners and cut it with a dremel tool using the small
cut-off wheel, it took less than 15 minutes.
Clyde
601 XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr. Andrew Elliott
To: Zenith-List Digest Server
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting out trim tab?
Gang:
I'm at the point where I need to cut out the elevator trim tab from a
built elevator. I have all the lines carefully marked and would like to
hear some technique suggestions for making these cuts.
My own idea is to split or cut out the trailing edge between the end
lines (with a band saw?), cut the end lines with shears, drill out the
aft two middle-rib rivets, and finally cut the top and bottom spanwise
lines by scoring with the laminate knife and breaking out the sections.
Other ideas?
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Wacker" <ccwacker(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out trim tab? |
I did it Paul's way and had excellent results. Using a file to home into the
final size yeilded a perfect fit.
Chuck Wacker
N601XL Quick Build
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting out trim tab?
>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:43:33 -0800
>
>
>
>Hi Andy,
>
>Its been a while since I did that one, but here is what I think I would do
>now.
>
>First, stop drill the inside corners with something like a 1/4" drill.
>Then I would use a fairly large step drill - perhaps 3/4" or 7/8" to make a
>starting point for the shears. I would drill this in the waste material
>perhaps 1" from the final cut line. Then it is a matter of cutting with
>the shears. The first cuts would leave about 1/4" to the final cut line,
>and then I would work my way closer to the final line until I was there.
>Perhaps the last few thousandths in some areas would be done with a file
>rather than the shears. Clean up the edges with a smooth file and it is
>done.
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>
>
>At 07:53 PM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
>>Gang:
>>
>>I'm at the point where I need to cut out the elevator trim tab from a
>>built elevator. I have all the lines carefully marked and would like to
>>hear some technique suggestions for making these cuts.
>>
>>My own idea is to split or cut out the trailing edge between the end lines
>>(with a band saw?), cut the end lines with shears, drill out the aft two
>>middle-rib rivets, and finally cut the top and bottom spanwise lines by
>>scoring with the laminate knife and breaking out the sections.
>>
>>Other ideas?
>>
>>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>>N601GE (reserved)
>>601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
>
>-
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
something more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dino Bortolin" <dbortol(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out trim tab? |
I did mine the same way just a few weeks ago. It worked very well. I
used a small router with a straight bit to cut away the trailing edge
and seperate the top and bottom 'skins'.
Dino Bortolin
On 1/24/07, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
> I'm at the point where I need to cut out the elevator trim tab from a built
> elevator. I have all the lines carefully marked and would like to hear some
> technique suggestions for making these cuts.
>
> My own idea is to split or cut out the trailing edge between the end lines
> (with a band saw?), cut the end lines with shears, drill out the aft two
> middle-rib rivets, and finally cut the top and bottom spanwise lines by
> scoring with the laminate knife and breaking out the sections.
>
> Other ideas?
>
> Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
> N601GE (reserved)
> 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Jones" <waj(at)quik.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out trim tab? |
I also had good results doing it as Paul described .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Wacker" <ccwacker(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting out trim tab?
>
> I did it Paul's way and had excellent results. Using a file to home into
> the final size yeilded a perfect fit.
>
> Chuck Wacker
> N601XL Quick Build
>
>
>>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting out trim tab?
>>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:43:33 -0800
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Andy,
>>
>>Its been a while since I did that one, but here is what I think I would do
>>now.
>>
>>First, stop drill the inside corners with something like a 1/4" drill.
>>Then I would use a fairly large step drill - perhaps 3/4" or 7/8" to make
>>a starting point for the shears. I would drill this in the waste material
>>perhaps 1" from the final cut line. Then it is a matter of cutting with
>>the shears. The first cuts would leave about 1/4" to the final cut line,
>>and then I would work my way closer to the final line until I was there.
>>Perhaps the last few thousandths in some areas would be done with a file
>>rather than the shears. Clean up the edges with a smooth file and it is
>>done.
>>
>>Paul
>>XL fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>At 07:53 PM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
>>>Gang:
>>>
>>>I'm at the point where I need to cut out the elevator trim tab from a
>>>built elevator. I have all the lines carefully marked and would like to
>>>hear some technique suggestions for making these cuts.
>>>
>>>My own idea is to split or cut out the trailing edge between the end
>>>lines (with a band saw?), cut the end lines with shears, drill out the
>>>aft two middle-rib rivets, and finally cut the top and bottom spanwise
>>>lines by scoring with the laminate knife and breaking out the sections.
>>>
>>>Other ideas?
>>>
>>>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>>>N601GE (reserved)
>>>601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
>>
>>-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> something more.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <joe(at)kfiz.com> |
| Subject: | instruments for sale |
Guys,
I have decided to go in a different direction for instruments for my 601 XL.
I have decided to sell my entire instrument panel with instruments, radios,
etc. It's finished and looks great. It has the standard 6 pack of flight
instruments with yellow tag gyros, the DG has autopilot coupling, electric
turn & bank, 2 trim indicators, compass, suction, Westech engine
instruments, Jabiru style rpm with hour meter new, circut breakers,
adjustable air inlet controls, intercom, King KX 170A backup nav-com with
head, Narco transponder, Artex 110-4 ELT, Sigtronics headset like new,
master switches, gyro's plumbed with filters, encoder, Painted and labled
panel in very light grey. All mounting holes countersunk. I will take your
blank panel in trade. If anyone is interested, please contact me offline at
backstagelive(at)gmail.com or call me at 920-237-1450.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Filling in the rib ends? |
Gang:
Another question about techniques - What are people doing to fill in the
spaces at the aft ends of the end ribs on the various control surfaces?
Similar applies to the empty spaces in the inboard ends? I have been
variously thinking of wood blocks, plastic plugs, etc. for the ends, and
false ribs for the centerline spaces on the rudder and elevator. Other
ideas?
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out trim tab? |
I did like Paul except that I drilled a #20 hole at each corner rather than a 1/4"
hole. Then I also use a good new hacksaw to cut about 3/8" inside the cut
line at the trailing edge on both sides. That makes it much easier to cut around
the trailing edge with the snips. Like Paul described, I used a large step
drill inside the waste area to get started with the shears..... first cut about
1/4" inside the line, then a final cut to "save the line". Final finish with
file and emory cloth.
Ed Moody II
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Filling in the rib ends? |
all, the other option that works just as well, is AMD's design of a trim tab which
does not require a cut. The tab runs from inboard edge to entire length of
the port elevator. by 3 inches wide. It is secured by the paino hinge, and
is frankly a lot easier. I put in the orignal cut in one, then found the AMD
option. I would recommend the later.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Jan 25, 2007 11:01 AM
>To: Zenith-List Digest Server
>Subject: Zenith-List: Filling in the rib ends?
>
>Gang:
>
>Another question about techniques - What are people doing to fill in the spaces
at the aft ends of the end ribs on the various control surfaces? Similar applies
to the empty spaces in the inboard ends? I have been variously thinking
of wood blocks, plastic plugs, etc. for the ends, and false ribs for the centerline
spaces on the rudder and elevator. Other ideas?
>
>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>N601GE (reserved)
>601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Burns" <lsapilot(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Elevator trim angle? XL |
I see on the blueprints that Zenith calls for 20 degrees one way and 40
degrees the other for the trim on the 601 XL. How is that measured?
How I have it now, there is exactly the same travel up and down from
neutral, and neutral is dead center. Is there supposed to be more travel
one way over the other?
Thanks,
Jon Burns
Little Elm, TX
_________________________________________________________________
FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo buy and sell with people
you know
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Filling in the rib ends? |
..and that is precisely the configuraton in the latest revision of the plans for
the 601XL!
all, the other option that works just as well, is AMD's design of a trim tab which
does not require a cut. The tab runs from inboard edge to entire length of
the port elevator. by 3 inches wide. It is secured by the paino hinge, and is
frankly a lot easier. I put in the orignal cut in one, then found the AMD option.
I would recommend the later.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott"
>Sent: Jan 25, 2007 11:01 AM
>To: Zenith-List Digest Server
>Subject: Zenith-List: Filling in the rib ends?
>
>Gang:
>
>Another question about techniques - What are people doing to fill in the spaces
at the aft ends of the end ribs on the various control surfaces? Similar applies
to the empty spaces in the inboard ends? I have been variously thinking of
wood blocks, plastic plugs, etc. for the ends, and false ribs for the centerline
spaces on the rudder and elevator. Other ideas?
>
>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>N601GE (reserved)
>601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?
---------------------------------
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: zenith pitot tube V's Dynon tube |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
I do;t suppose you have a photo of the standoff do you?
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Just made my Dynon Pitot standoff. It will be permanently mounted on the left
wing when riveting the wing skin. The pluming will be accessible through the
wing locker. The Dynon Pitot won't be in place till assembly at the Airport.
Still going to have to be careful moving that wing around though.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90460#90460
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jpspencer(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | lift strut fairings |
anybody know where to get ready made aluminum lift strut fairings?
thx Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out trim tab? |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Here's a link to how I did mine:
or
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90506#90506
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: zenith pitot tube V's Dynon tube |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Sure do
look here:
[/url]http://tinyurl.com/yqtgeq[url]
or
[/url]http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=27206&row=7[url][/url]
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90511#90511
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | lift strut fairings |
I will be placing a 2000 lb order soon for lift strut material. I also
have 1000lbs of float keels for those who need to replace them some day,
I will always have them in stock so there is no need to store them for a
later date, when you need them they will be here.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jpspencer(at)cableone.net
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: lift strut fairings
anybody know where to get ready made aluminum lift strut fairings?
thx Joe
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
1/25/2007 3:32 PM
--
1/25/2007 3:32 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Barton" <allanbarton(at)aapt.net.au> |
| Subject: | Nosebowl Corvair |
Hi all
I am looking to buy a nosebowl for a Zodiac 601 XL / Corvair
Does anyone have one for sale and is willing to ship it to Australia
I will pay all costs
Please email me off list so you dont end up like me.
info(at)cumminsspinners.com
Fly Safe
Allan
Cummins Spinners
www.cumminsspinners.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Filling in the rib ends? |
| From: | "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
Hey Andy,
I'm assuming you're talking about the small gap left at the trailing edge of the
control surfaces. If so, when I first started building I worried what to do
about it. I went to a hanger and looked at production aircraft (Cessna, Beech,
etc). I noticed they also had gaps between the aft end of the various control
surface ribs and the trailing edge skin. Even a multi-million dollar Pilatus
PC-12 had gaps. Attached is a photo of a Cessna 150 flap showing a pretty large
gap.
If I misunderstood what you were describing, then ...never mind.
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90536#90536
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cessnaflap_433.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron stop |
| From: | "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch> |
Hi Mike and everybody else
I am also wondering how to install the aileron stop (CZAW kit). I do have two parts
6W10-4 (see picture below) but don't know how and where to install. The drawing
shows 6W10-4 as a different looking part...
Looking forward to any help :D .
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90538#90538
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Filling in the rib ends? |
The gap is there for a reason. It simply allows moisture to drain.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TxDave
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:18 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Filling in the rib ends?
Hey Andy,
I'm assuming you're talking about the small gap left at the trailing edge of
the control surfaces. If so, when I first started building I worried what to
do about it. I went to a hanger and looked at production aircraft (Cessna,
Beech, etc). I noticed they also had gaps between the aft end of the various
control surface ribs and the trailing edge skin. Even a multi-million dollar
Pilatus PC-12 had gaps. Attached is a photo of a Cessna 150 flap showing a
pretty large gap.
If I misunderstood what you were describing, then ...never mind.
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90536#90536
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cessnaflap_433.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Filling in the rib ends? |
Another thing I forgot to mention is that if you do cover/close up the gaps at
the trailing edges as I did, I think it is a good idea to drill a small #40 or
#30 hole to allow the assembly to drip out moisture or "breathe". The hole is
way too small for critters to intrude but large enough to drip out.
Ed
---- TxDave wrote:
>
> Hey Andy,
>
> I'm assuming you're talking about the small gap left at the trailing edge of
the control surfaces. If so, when I first started building I worried what to do
about it. I went to a hanger and looked at production aircraft (Cessna, Beech,
etc). I noticed they also had gaps between the aft end of the various control
surface ribs and the trailing edge skin. Even a multi-million dollar Pilatus
PC-12 had gaps. Attached is a photo of a Cessna 150 flap showing a pretty large
gap.
>
> If I misunderstood what you were describing, then ...never mind.
>
> Dave Clay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Austin" <daveaustin2(at)can.rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Filling in the rib ends? |
Only my humble opinion, but the drain holes should be at least 1/4 inch.
Smaller than that blocks too easily. With the drill still in the hole, it
should also be sloped (pulled) backward when not rotating, enough that it
forms a slight negative pressure zone at the hole to suck any water out.
I agree - you don't want critters in there!
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
----- Original Message -----
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Filling in the rib ends?
>
> Another thing I forgot to mention is that if you do cover/close up the
> gaps at the trailing edges as I did, I think it is a good idea to drill a
> small #40 or #30 hole to allow the assembly to drip out moisture or
> "breathe". The hole is way too small for critters to intrude but large
> enough to drip out.
>
> Ed
>
> ---- TxDave wrote:
>>
>> Hey Andy,
>>
>> I'm assuming you're talking about the small gap left at the trailing edge
>> of the control surfaces. If so, when I first started building I worried
>> what to do about it. I went to a hanger and looked at production aircraft
>> (Cessna, Beech, etc). I noticed they also had gaps between the aft end of
>> the various control surface ribs and the trailing edge skin. Even a
>> multi-million dollar Pilatus PC-12 had gaps. Attached is a photo of a
>> Cessna 150 flap showing a pretty large gap.
>>
>> If I misunderstood what you were describing, then ...never mind.
>>
>> Dave Clay
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift strut fairings |
| From: | "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> |
Mark - Can thes be used in lieu of the steel struts like the Rans or on the 701
built by Robert Kube for Christopher Desmond?
Thanks,
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90632#90632
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/701_strut_2_141.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron stop |
| From: | "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch> |
Hi Tim
Thank you for the picture of the aileron stop-installation. I will recheck my plans...
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90639#90639
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Caldwell <caldwelljf(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | CH-801 Cowling/Crossflow |
I need a cowling for a Zenith CH-801 running a Crossflow Subaru engine. Any ideas?
Jay
Jay F. Caldwell
Owner, Caldwell Systems Engineering (CSE), LLC
4181 Tamilynn Court
San Diego, CA 92122
Voice 858.453.4594
Facsimile 858.452.1560
Work 619.562.0885
Mobile 858.336.0394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neitzel" <n963wb(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Handheld GPS? |
Greetings all.
Per Lind and others about to purchase a GPS. One of the first places to
start is www.sportys.com and click on the GPS comparison chart.
Specifications and features for a good variety of the GPS units that are
on the market today are listed along with prices. The unit that is no
longer on the list is the GPS that I ended up buying and that is the
AvMap Geo Pilot (Sportys item # 1932A). I realize that it does not have
many of the features that the high end units have, like weather display
and such, but for the money ($795) it has one of the largest displays
available and I found it very easy to operate. I only have about 20
hours in the air with it but so far have been very pleased with
performance.
Hope this helps
Dick Neitzel
Sayner, WI
701 Jab 2200
N962WB
N963WB(at)frontiernet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | 601XL "Tail Number" Opinion Poll |
Guys:
I registered my tail number some time ago (N5SL) and now I'm ready to stick
it on the airplane. I got the black, 3", pre-spaced numbers from Aircraft
Spruce. Here's where I'm having trouble making a decision:
Even though it is called a "Tail Number" I've noticed a lot of 601's have
the numbers on the fuselage below the longerons. Please reply with where
you think the numbers ought to be and why. I located a few examples below
to help make the decision:
Tail:
http://www.zenvair.com/jannakos1.jpg
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic06/b-carlson.jpg
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic06/8190003.jpg
Fuselage:
http://www.zenvair.com/ray3.jpg
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic06/c-richmond4.jpg
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic06/n8830c-2.jpg
Thanks for your input.
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair
Polished, not painted
Omaha, Nebraska
www.cooknwithgas.com
_________________________________________________________________
Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL "Tail Number" Opinion Poll |
FAR 45.25 (location)
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/89cbae
6ceae8fe13852566ab006bed58!OpenDocument&Click
TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/yptdok
Sec. 45.25
Location of marks on fixed-wing aircraft.
(a) The operator of a fixed-wing aircraft shall display the required marks
on either the vertical tail surfaces or the sides of the fuselage, except as
provided in Sec. 45.29(f).
(b) The marks required by paragraph (a) of this section shall be displayed
as follows:
(1) If displayed on the vertical tail surfaces, horizontally on both
surfaces, horizontally on both surfaces of a single vertical tail or on the
outer surfaces of a multivertical tail. However, on aircraft on which marks
at least 3 inches high may be displayed in accordance with Sec. 45.29(b)(1),
the marks may be displayed vertically on the vertical tail surfaces.
(2) If displayed on the fuselage surfaces, horizontally on both sides of the
fuselage between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the
horizontal stabilizer. However, if engine pods or other appurtenances are
located in this area and are an integral part of the fuselage side surfaces,
the operator may place the marks on those pods or appurtenances.
FAR 45.29 (size)
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY/RGFAR.NSF/0/b75de9
a6d18e489186256edf006d6cec!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=2
TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/26cclr
All though I can't make it out from the FARs I am told that aircraft
entering the US now (post 9/11) need to have the numbers be 12 inches high.
Paragraph (h) seems to be related to this:
"(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ
or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality
and registration marks at least 12 inches high."
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Hi Gang
The HD and HDS are still very good options for some builders. I think the HD
especially.
I was wondering if there was still builder support for these models? Can you
still purchase pre-made parts from ZAC?? Plan updates etc?
Seems that most builders are building the XL.
Ron
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL "Tail Number" Opinion Poll |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
If you are going to use just black 3" number put them on the tail. As short as
your number is I' put them on horz.
If someone was going to color match the numbers with a paint job I'd go with the
fuselage.
With vanity numbers like yours, and mine, I'd go with big color matched numbers
on the fuse.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90687#90687
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
I understand the the parts are still being made and sold but I'd doubt there are
going to be many more updates to the plans.
I'm curious why you'd want the HD or HDS over the XL though?
rlalonde wrote:
> Hi Gang
> The HD and HDS are still very good options for some builders. I think the HD
> especially.
> I was wondering if there was still builder support for these models? Can you
> still purchase pre-made parts from ZAC?? Plan updates etc?
> Seems that most builders are building the XL.
> Ron
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90688#90688
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Hi Gig
Presently building an XL., but was just looking at the plan I also have for
the HD.
The HD can use a smaller powerplant, and that interests me.
This XL project is my sons choice, ....personally....I like the 701 best of
all.
Ron
>From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS
>Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:39:48 -0800
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>I understand the the parts are still being made and sold but I'd doubt
>>there are going to be many more updates to the plans.
>
>I'm curious why you'd want the HD or HDS over the XL though?
>
>
>rlalonde wrote:
> > Hi Gang
> > The HD and HDS are still very good options for some builders. I think
>the HD
> > especially.
> > I was wondering if there was still builder support for these models? Can
>you
> > still purchase pre-made parts from ZAC?? Plan updates etc?
> > Seems that most builders are building the XL.
> > Ron
> >
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90688#90688
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL "Tail Number" Opinion Poll |
| From: | "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net> |
Scott,
I was planning to use large numbers on the fuselage sides for the following reason.
The sides are flat ALMOST. My plans called for the .016 side skins, and
didn't know thicker skins were an option until I was past that phase of construction,
and the "flat" sides don't look flat. Painting BIG numbers on the
side is one idea I have to obscure the imperfection.
Dan
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90740#90740
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Actually the XL may be the worse choice in terms of future parts
availability. That is because the XL is still evolving. I can't order many
parts for my vintage 2000 XL kit from Zenith because the plans have changes.
The instrument panel has moved, the bulkheads have changed shape, etc. That
is why lately I've been acting more like a scratch builder than a kit
builder.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | 601XL Wing Flutter |
Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this afternoon. Took a fellow with me and
just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were perfect, clear, cool
and only a slight wind. The only big thing around much to see nearby is Lake
Juliette which has a big coal fired power station in the middle. Three huge steam
towers that look like a nuclear power station. We flew around the lake about
two miles away at 5000 feet so my pal could get a good look see. On the down
wind side we flew into an invisible killer. We were doing above 140 when we
flew into it. Instantly the left wing fluttered at a fast pitch, aileron and all
and it looked to be moving maybe two inched up and down. I figured a couple
seconds would break it off. I didn't have time to look around the passenger to
see if the right wing was fluttering, but I suspect it was. I chopped power and
did a hard diving wing over to the left and out of it. The flutter sound was
great even over my Lightspeed AN system and the whole thing probably last
maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I regained control out of the snap dive, maxing above 170
and flew slow and easy back to the field before I tested the controls.
Everything felt okay and I could see no wrinkles in the top skin so I landed. Didn't
really have much choice. Upon inspection I found no sign of stress, no skin
deform, no paint cracked around rivets, nothing. I will take off all inspection
panels for a close inspection this weekend and check bolts, controls, etc., but
I cannot believe such a prolonged violent movement of the wing did not damage
something other than my pride. Two things learned. Don't fly anywhere near a
power station. Even at 5000 feet and miles away the invisible heat rises and is
most extreme. Maybe intensified in cold weather. The other thing is the XL is
very, very tough. Oh, there is a third thing. How could I have been so stupid
not to know the first thing !! I am interested though in knowing why the
wings fluttered in this thermal? What theory of air dynamics would cause this
extreme reaction? Was is just the level of heat and speed the invisible air was
streaming past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud again.
Best regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hoak" <planejim(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
Hey Bill,
Sounds scary! Glad you are OK. Although it was years ago ( first off I'm
NOT a trained test pilot ) I was involved in some actual flutter
problems involving a Midget Mustang I built by a friend and latter did
flutter tests in a Mustang II built by another friend.
When we experienced the flutter with the MM I ( at about 180 mph ) we
consulted an old friend who knew Dave Long ( the designer of the MM I )
and picked his brain. One thing he said is if you experience flutter you
have mere seconds to SLOW DOWN and the best way to do that is to reduce
power and pull the airplane up ( I noticed you dove and increased speed
but got out of it ). This procedure helped us with the MM I. What we
found with this airplane was an accumulation of built in slop in the
aileron control system. This system was all push rods and bellcranks and
the builder had just drilled all the holes ( did not ream ) and used AN
Standard bolts. I found this quickly by haveing the builder grasp one
aileron while I moved the other aileron up and down better than a 1/4"
at the trailing edge. Remeber this is a 200 mph plus airplane. We went
to NAS and oversized bolts and tightened up the slop. This DIDN'T cure
the flutter though. What we found then was that when he filled the
counterweight tubes that were mounted forward of the hinge line with
lead, he didn't get the tubes full as the lead solidified as he poured
it in and left many air spaces inside the tube. We corrected that and
the flutter problem went away. Probably both problems contributed to the
flutter.
In the Mustang II we were doing flutter test in the 225 230 mph range by
increasing the speed by 1 mph increments and never had a problem, but we
were ready to slow it down if one did arise.
I know John from AMD tested for flutter when he did your test flight and
he said nothing about it when he landed. You might call him and ask what
max speed he uses when testing.
Not being an aerodynamicist ( spelling? ) I don't know the cause for
your encounter but just maybe it has something to do with the fact that
we don't use balanced controls on these Zenith airplanes and a weird air
pattern that you encountered because of the heat from the power plant.
I've flown over large fires on the ground, as I'm sure you and others
have in the past and experienced some pretty rough air but not FLUTTER.
In your case, if it was unbalanced controls, it seems that when you dove
to 170, it should have made it worse. Do the "grab one aileron and try
to move the other test" and see what you find. Otherwise, DON'T fly near
the power plant any more! I've been tempted to fly over to that same
place but since 9-11 I stay away from all power plants.
Let me know if I can help and also what you find.
Jim Hoak
----- Original Message -----
From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Flutter
Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this afternoon. Took a fellow with
me and just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were perfect,
clear, cool and only a slight wind. The only big thing around much to
see nearby is Lake Juliette which has a big coal fired power station in
the middle. Three huge steam towers that look like a nuclear power
station. We flew around the lake about two miles away at 5000 feet so my
pal could get a good look see. On the down wind side we flew into an
invisible killer. We were doing above 140 when we flew into it.
Instantly the left wing fluttered at a fast pitch, aileron and all and
it looked to be moving maybe two inched up and down. I figured a couple
seconds would break it off. I didn't have time to look around the
passenger to see if the right wing was fluttering, but I suspect it was.
I chopped power and did a hard diving wing over to the left and out of
it. The flutter sound was great even over my Lightspeed AN system and
the whole thing probably last maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I regained control
out of the snap dive, maxing above 170 and flew slow and easy back to
the field before I tested the controls. Everything felt okay and I could
see no wrinkles in the top skin so I landed. Didn't really have much
choice. Upon inspection I found no sign of stress, no skin deform, no
paint cracked around rivets, nothing. I will take off all inspection
panels for a close inspection this weekend and check bolts, controls,
etc., but I cannot believe such a prolonged violent movement of the wing
did not damage something other than my pride. Two things learned. Don't
fly anywhere near a power station. Even at 5000 feet and miles away the
invisible heat rises and is most extreme. Maybe intensified in cold
weather. The other thing is the XL is very, very tough. Oh, there is a
third thing. How could I have been so stupid not to know the first thing
!! I am interested though in knowing why the wings fluttered in this
thermal? What theory of air dynamics would cause this extreme reaction?
Was is just the level of heat and speed the invisible air was streaming
past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud again. Best
regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Tingey" <etingey1(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
While rigging the cables, I noticed that the Rudder and elevator cables cross over
one another and are making contact.
Is it acceptable that they are rubbing ever so slightly ?
Eric.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90798#90798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
Ben, maybe I did not explain well, but it was not control flutter. The
aileron did not move independent of the wing. What occurred is the whole wing
fluttered with aileron moving with it., best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Ron-
The HD/HDS design has three major advantages, all related to the size of
the wings.
1. You can get by with a smaller workspace.
2. If you're scratchbuilding, you don't have to buy so many 12' sheets
of stock.
3. 8' brakes are hard enough to come by, 12' even harder.
Both XL and HDS prints/manuals have serious problems in my estimation,
but "Shooting out prints" and "Writing work instructions" is what I do for a
living. You have to balance personal expectations. Listers who have the same
job responsibilites as I do can't believe how sloppy the prints and
instructions are. On the other hand, how do Zenith instructions stack up to
the competition? I don't know- the HDS is the only plane I've attempted to
build.
Zenith has never failed to be able to supply a replacement part for my
HDS, and for that I'm grateful. Two cautions:
1. The Zenith website parts list is out of date. Prepare to receive a
quote and pay more than is listed.
2. Make absolutely sure the part number you order is what you need.
Bottom line is, CH never had a bad design. Execution is a different
story.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS
>
> Hi Gang
> The HD and HDS are still very good options for some builders. I think the
> HD especially.
> I was wondering if there was still builder support for these models? Can
> you still purchase pre-made parts from ZAC?? Plan updates etc?
> Seems that most builders are building the XL.
> Ron
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
> Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Rigging |
Short answer, NO LOW&SLOW John
While rigging the cables, I noticed that the Rudder and elevator
cables cross over one another and are making contact.
Is it acceptable that they are rubbing ever so slightly ?
Eric.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90798#90798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | NOT wing flutter! |
(long post)
Whoa! One needs be careful saying "wing flutter" on a list devoted to
aircraft!
In the aerospace world, flutter is a specific phenomenon defined as
"dynamic instability of an elastic body in an airstream" (from
Aeroelasticity - Bisplinghoff, Ashley and Hoffman - the standard
reference text). In a wing-type body, there is a speed *above* which
the oscillations of the wing can go unstable, that is, they get bigger
and bigger with each cycle.
The only solution for this is to either slow down, change the wing's
aerodynamic characteristics, for example by deploying spoilers or other
controls, or change the wing's structural characteristics, for example
by buckling stuff. If you are below that speed, the wing can not
flutter.
It can shake, rattle and roll for sure, but not flutter! 140 indicated
is about 150 true, which should give you plenty of margin. (I am
assuming mph. If you were going 140 knots indicated at 5000', that's
over 170 mph true, and it's a different story.)
Since you sped up and the wing did not come off, what you saw was not
flutter, but simply some excitation of the wing bending. A two inch
oscillation on a 601-length wing is not even close to being a structural
problem. The wing is stressed for +/- 6 G's meaning that it can hold 6
times the gross weight of the aircraft without any failure.
This is tested in production aircraft by loading up the wing with
distributed sand bag weights, so in a typical 601, that would be about
5000 lbs of sand on each wing. You can bet that it will deflect a lot
more than 2 inches!
Of course, it is possible to get flutter of just a control surface.
This is more likely in aircraft like a 601, which does not have mass
balanced ailerons or elevators. But again, since you sped up and this
did not get worse, it is very unlikely to have happened.
There are a number of scenarios which could lead to an oscillation like
you described, excited by the turbulence - including a low frequency
control surface vibration linked through the aileron controls to your
hand (the soft servo), a vibration caused by a structural change like a
loosening cable or control arm, feedback or other failures in the
aileron trim system, feedback in the autopilot if you have one (which
should be designed to kick off in that situation).
You should certainly check all those things and the wing attach bolts,
and whatever else you can! But it could just have been the wing and/or
aileron vibrating after being excited by the strong turbulence, like a
guitar string being strummed. Note - when you encounter airframe
vibrations, a good response is always to make small control movements
and *slow down*, instead of speeding up.
FWIW - standard disclaimers, etc.,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
(MIT '74, Ph.D. '87, all in Aerospace Engineering)
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter???? |
Hi Bill,Glad everything came out OK. Looks like you ran into some really
weird turbulence from the power-plant, giving you an "E" ticket ride.
If you were really experiencing wing or control surface flutter, your
diving and picking up speed should have exacerbated the problem with the
amplitude going divergent very rapidly, until something(s) bends or more
likely breaks off. Only saw this once in a film of a dynamic model in a
wind tunnel - once flutter started the entire model was gonzo in a
second or two. Do you recall experiencing any feed back in the
stick/rudder?In 199 hours in my XL, I have had some bumpy rides and the
airplane has handled it ok - just glad I always have my seat belt tight.
I have also had some GREAT*, almost I would have believed, GOOD*,
landings and I agree the airplane is tough. *GREAT Landing - Airplane is
still flyable. GOOD Landing - You can walk away from the
airplane.Please let us know if you find anything after your in-depth
inspection. I kind of suspect you will not find anything amiss, but if
you do it would be a good data point for all of us for tailoring our
structural inspections. Tony Graziano XL; N493TG--------Ben, maybe I
did not explain well, but it was not control flutter. The
aileron did not move independent of the wing. What occurred is the whole
wing
fluttered with aileron moving with it., best regards,
Bill------------------------- Dear Thread Friends, I went flying this
afternoon. Took a fellow with me and
just wanted an hour in the clear blue. Conditions were perfect, clear,
cool
and only a slight wind. The only big thing around much to see nearby is
Lake
Juliette which has a big coal fired power station in the middle. Three
huge steam
towers that look like a nuclear power station. We flew around the lake
about
two miles away at 5000 feet so my pal could get a good look see. On the
down
wind side we flew into an invisible killer. We were doing above 140 when
we
flew into it. Instantly the left wing fluttered at a fast pitch, aileron
and all
and it looked to be moving maybe two inched up and down. I figured a
couple
seconds would break it off. I didn't have time to look around the
passenger to
see if the right wing was fluttering, but I suspect it was. I chopped
power and
did a hard diving wing over to the left and out of it. The flutter sound
was
great even over my Lightspeed AN system and the whole thing probably
last
maybe 5 or 6 seconds. I regained control out of the snap dive, maxing
above 170
and flew slow and easy back to the field before I tested the controls.
Everything felt okay and I could see no wrinkles in the top skin so I
landed. Didn't
really have much choice. Upon inspection I found no sign of stress, no
skin
deform, no paint cracked around rivets, nothing. I will take off all
inspection
panels for a close inspection this weekend and check bolts, controls,
etc., but
I cannot believe such a prolonged violent movement of the wing did not
damage
something other than my pride. Two things learned. Don't fly anywhere
near a
power station. Even at 5000 feet and miles away the invisible heat rises
and is
most extreme. Maybe intensified in cold weather. The other thing is the
XL is
very, very tough. Oh, there is a third thing. How could I have been so
stupid
not to know the first thing !! I am interested though in knowing why
the
wings fluttered in this thermal? What theory of air dynamics would cause
this
extreme reaction? Was is just the level of heat and speed the invisible
air was
streaming past? This was my 90th flight in her and she made me proud
again.
Best regards to you all,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rick tedford" <rick.tedford(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Hello Craig : Can you tell me how far and which way the panel moved on the
601XL ?
My kit is of 2001vintage and I am going to instal a new panel which will
have a better layout .
I was unable to find the update showing the change .
Any help would be appreciated .
Cheers
Rick Tedford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Builder support for the 601HD or HDS
>
> Actually the XL may be the worse choice in terms of future parts
> availability. That is because the XL is still evolving. I can't order many
> parts for my vintage 2000 XL kit from Zenith because the plans have
> changes.
> The instrument panel has moved, the bulkheads have changed shape, etc.
> That
> is why lately I've been acting more like a scratch builder than a kit
> builder.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
> --
> 11:11 AM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
Sun-N-Fun, OK Group, it is that time of year again, time to go to
www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and sign up for the Webmasters BBQ. This
year is important to register. I had reports of Vans owners crashing the
event for free food! It really shouldn't come as a surprise, after all
that money for the large engine and the panel they need to forage for
any free meal! ( Only kidding!right?) Anyways, I'm buying dinner for
Zenith/Zenair owners/builders/dreamers, so in order to keep things in
line a little better this year I will be making name tags again. Your
name tag is your ticket for the free event.
I will have name blank name tags for those who don't use a computer but
I really need everyone to sign up for a couple of reasons. I use the
list of name tags to judge how much food to buy and by doing it ahead of
time I don't spend the whole Sun-N-Fun organizing the BBQ. I prefer to
have everything done even before I leave Ontario.
The first year of this event we saw at least 80 people, last year we
were over 130 people. I still had food left over but barely and I ran
out of pop way too early. I will make changes accordingly this year.
Please sign up ASAP even if your only thinking of going. You can easily
tell me later that you can't make it. That is far preferable then having
50-80 people sign up in the last week before I leave for Florida.
Thanks Guys, I really look forward to seeing you all again.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
BTW: is this a 601HD, HDS, XL, 701 or 801?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Tingey
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:04 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cable Rigging
While rigging the cables, I noticed that the Rudder and elevator cables
cross over one another and are making contact.
Is it acceptable that they are rubbing ever so slightly ?
Eric.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90798#90798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
It looks like I am wrong. The instrument panel has not moved. 6B14 dated
04/01 and 03/05 show 475 from the base of the instrument panel 6B12-4 to the
firewall. But the dimensions of the forward top skin have changed. On 6C1
dated 10/06 6C1-4 is 570 by 1135. But the 05/01 plans show it as 600 by
1300. But the shorter dimension controls the firewall overhang and is
trimmed to fit the cowl.
6B15 does show that the position of the most forward vertical stiffing L
angle has moved by 45mm. The sheet dated 04/01 shows the stiffener 400 back
from the firewall. The sheet dated 07/05 shows 355.
Having three sets of plans makes for endless reading fun.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Venables" <roger(at)nwtradingpost.com> |
Mark
What date is the BBQ?
Roger Venables
Kenmore, WA CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ZodieRocket
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ
Sun-N-Fun, OK Group, it is that time of year again, time to go to
www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and sign up for the Webmasters BBQ. This
year is important to register. I had reports of Vans owners crashing the
event for free food! It really shouldn't come as a surprise, after all
that money for the large engine and the panel they need to forage for
any free meal! ( Only kidding!right?) Anyways, I'm buying dinner for
Zenith/Zenair owners/builders/dreamers, so in order to keep things in
line a little better this year I will be making name tags again. Your
name tag is your ticket for the free event.
I will have name blank name tags for those who don't use a computer but
I really need everyone to sign up for a couple of reasons. I use the
list of name tags to judge how much food to buy and by doing it ahead of
time I don't spend the whole Sun-N-Fun organizing the BBQ. I prefer to
have everything done even before I leave Ontario.
The first year of this event we saw at least 80 people, last year we
were over 130 people. I still had food left over but barely and I ran
out of pop way too early. I will make changes accordingly this year.
Please sign up ASAP even if your only thinking of going. You can easily
tell me later that you can't make it. That is far preferable then having
50-80 people sign up in the last week before I leave for Florida.
Thanks Guys, I really look forward to seeing you all again.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
Sun-N-Fun 2007 Webmasters BBQ
Thursday April 19 2007
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
Venables
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ
Mark
What date is the BBQ?
Roger Venables
Kenmore, WA CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ZodieRocket
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ
Sun-N-Fun, OK Group, it is that time of year again, time to go to
www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and sign up for the Webmasters BBQ. This
year is important to register. I had reports of Vans owners crashing the
event for free food! It really shouldn't come as a surprise, after all
that money for the large engine and the panel they need to forage for
any free meal! ( Only kidding!right?) Anyways, I'm buying dinner for
Zenith/Zenair owners/builders/dreamers, so in order to keep things in
line a little better this year I will be making name tags again. Your
name tag is your ticket for the free event.
I will have name blank name tags for those who don't use a computer but
I really need everyone to sign up for a couple of reasons. I use the
list of name tags to judge how much food to buy and by doing it ahead of
time I don't spend the whole Sun-N-Fun organizing the BBQ. I prefer to
have everything done even before I leave Ontario.
The first year of this event we saw at least 80 people, last year we
were over 130 people. I still had food left over but barely and I ran
out of pop way too early. I will make changes accordingly this year.
Please sign up ASAP even if your only thinking of going. You can easily
tell me later that you can't make it. That is far preferable then having
50-80 people sign up in the last week before I leave for Florida.
Thanks Guys, I really look forward to seeing you all again.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
--
1/26/2007 11:11 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Rigging |
| From: | "Eric Tingey" <etingey1(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
CH601 HDS
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90882#90882
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk(at)granderiver.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Inspections |
I would really appreciate a copy of this. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides |
Hi dears builders,
I was doing my flange lightening holes in my wing spar extension and I
reversed male/female side of one hole. The male side was supposed to be on
front side view of the plane, I done one (of 2) male back side of the plane.
My question is that a big problem ? Could it be affect resistance ? Could be
acceptable or not for some part of the plane like, spar, rib, fuselage and
so on ? This is acceptable for AC 43.13 standard ? Please specify your
background and experience on that domain if you respond to that question. I
never read anything on that matter.
Thanks a lot for information.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear leg? |
Looking over my third-hand 601XL kit I see that the front bungee cord pin
6G2-2 rubs on the gear leg 6G1-1. Looking at the stack-up of dimensions the
tolerances are very tight. The 5/8th inch (15.8mm) pin passes through a hole
whose center is 25mm from the firewall (see 6B8-7). So the forward edge of
the pin is 25 + 15.8/2 = 32.9mm from the firewall. The 2 inch gear leg
(radius = 25.4mm) passes through a hole in 6B7-1 that is 60mm from the
firewall bend radius. The dimensions in the bottom bearing 6G2-1 are
similar: the center of the 2 inch hole is 58mm from the rear edge of the
block. So the rear edge of the gear leg is at 60 - 25.4 or 34.6mm from the
firewall with some slop for the bend radius. 34.6 - 32.9 gives a clearance
of 1.7mm. And the bungee pulls these two pieces together, removing any slop.
Does the pin touch the leg on your plane? Is it acceptable to shift the
nylon bearing forward to create enough clearance (I've got to replace mine
due to other problems)?
I'll be asking Zenith the same question.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaybannist(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear |
leg?
Craig,
The lower bungee pin 6G2-2 does not touch the gear tube on my XL. I don't know
what the clearance is, but I could put a piece of .025 between the two without
any friction.
Jay in Dallas
"Craig Payne" wrote:
>
>Looking over my third-hand 601XL kit I see that the front bungee cord pin
>6G2-2 rubs on the gear leg 6G1-1. Looking at the stack-up of dimensions the
>tolerances are very tight. The 5/8th inch (15.8mm) pin passes through a hole
>whose center is 25mm from the firewall (see 6B8-7). So the forward edge of
>the pin is 25 + 15.8/2 = 32.9mm from the firewall. The 2 inch gear leg
>(radius = 25.4mm) passes through a hole in 6B7-1 that is 60mm from the
>firewall bend radius. The dimensions in the bottom bearing 6G2-1 are
>similar: the center of the 2 inch hole is 58mm from the rear edge of the
>block. So the rear edge of the gear leg is at 60 - 25.4 or 34.6mm from the
>firewall with some slop for the bend radius. 34.6 - 32.9 gives a clearance
>of 1.7mm. And the bungee pulls these two pieces together, removing any slop.
>
>Does the pin touch the leg on your plane? Is it acceptable to shift the
>nylon bearing forward to create enough clearance (I've got to replace mine
>due to other problems)?
>
>I'll be asking Zenith the same question.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear |
leg?
Mine, kit-built, has about 2mm clearance between 6G2-2 and 6G1-1..
Robin in AR
601XL Zen-Vair N601ZV reserved.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Does your front bungee cord pin touch the front gear
leg?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FBO Marty Turman |
| From: | "Husky Larry J" <Larry.J.Husky(at)doc.state.or.us> |
I know there are a few guys that fly through Lakeview, Oregon and stop
by KLKV for fuel. Marty Turman has been there for years and there are
many pilots that speak of him. I am sorry to say that Marty has passed
away unexpectedly. From what I am told, Marty was complaining of a pain
in his eye and called his neighbor, who is a nurse. Marty was gone
before she arrived. Marty was an EAA technical advisor and was a big
help when I have questions about my project. Marty also let me use many
of his specialty tools. His presence will be missed by throughout the
aviation field. I am going to be really lost on my project now, since
he is the only AP within 100 miles. I do not know the future of the
airport at this time. I have decided to paint a little something on my
plane when it is done for Marty. He has been a big help to me. Marty
was building an experimental also. A Beaver TD. It showed some of the
finest work I have ever seen. You could look for some time and not find
a flaw in the wings or fuse. Services will be Monday at 2 pm here in
Lakeview. I went to the airport today and noticed a sign on his office
door that reads. "When my ship finally comes in. I will probably be at
the airport". I believe Marty was at the airport when he felt something
was wrong. I have not had to post much on this group for questions, due
to Marty's knowledge, but I am afraid that if I am to finish my project,
that will have to change. If you knew Marty, take a minute to think of
him and what he gave to aviation. I sure hate to see Marty's Cessna
sitting there waiting for him.
Larry Husky
Lakeview, Oregon
Do not Achieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides |
| From: | "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
Hello Christian,
One of the wing ribs (#7) in the 601XL has 2 lightening holes flanged in one direction
and 2 holes flanged in the opposite direction. I'm assuming the part you
are talking about is like the spar tip in the XL. The purpose of the flange
is to add strength and rigidity to the part. I can't see where your mistake would
affect the integrity of your wing in any way.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90979#90979
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Sheesh. I gotta chime in here...
This is normal and has nothing to do with "flutter". I'd file this one right along
side all the "twitchy" nonsense that was going around a few months ago.
The guy hit a strong thermal due to rising heat off the steam stacks. Simple as
that. I see this regularly in my Piper Warrior.
The downwind 45 entry to my home airport runs right over the top of an oil refinery.
Lots of heat. Always enough to bump you as you go over, and once it was
enough to put me nearly on my side.
You have to expect that sort of thing when flying over a large heat source.
Regarding the wings bouncing - watch the normal flex of your wings (or look out
the window next time you're on an airliner). Push & pull on that thing in your
hands and watch what your wings do...
Suggestion: go back and fly over that power plant again. Go high and slow, watch
your altimeter, and expect some bumps. It won't be so bad now that you can
anticipate what's going to happen. Seriously, give this a shot.
- Patrick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90989#90989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jennifer Moorhouse <finesse152(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. I haven't
even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 601XL, currently
the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to dedicate to the rest of it.
Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying something more similar to it than
the Cessna. I have started transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one
before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the
composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the
right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's normal, because
of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's
just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out of whack. There's not
much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot on the ground. How does the
Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take
off and land. I couldn't keep it on centerline
to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with the cfi again. The only
other rentals at this particular airport are 172s. I could go to another airport,
but don't know of anything more similar to the Zodiac that's available for
training or rental. I've been happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering,
long term am I going to be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana
is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get
happy with the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac?
---------------------------------
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
Hi Jennifer,
I wish there were an easy answer to your question. Unfortunately,
all planes are different, and it is unlikely to find two different
models that are really similar to fly.
I have not flown a Katana, but I have flown planes with free
castering nose wheels. I find them very difficult to taxi and
particularly difficult to take off. Add a cross wind which is trying
to push your nose in the same direction as the engine torque and you
have a real handful. In that respect the XL should be much nicer to
handle and should be similar to the 150 since they both have nose
wheel steering.
I don't have my XL flying yet, but I suspect there is a significant
difference in the behavior of XLs depending on which engine you
have. Also, like the 150, the climb rate will change significantly
depending on how many people are in the plane. Even so, an XL with a
Jabiru 3300 will climb perhaps twice the rate of a 150. It has
perhaps 30% more horsepower and 300 pounds less gross weight.
From the standpoint of pilot training, I think all "Light" single
engine planes are roughly similar to fly. When you move up to "High
Performance" singles like the C-182 or Bonanza the pilot experience
is quite different. The extra weight of these planes mean you must
think of what you want the plane to be doing about 30 seconds in
advance of the time you actually get what you want. Light singles
respond immediately to changes in power and pitch.
I wish we could all go out and rent XLs or 701s to prepare for flying
the planes we are building. Alas, this isn't so easy to do. As far
as I know there may be 3 XLs in the USA available for training and no
701s. This means you will be stuck flying whatever you can rent
until your own plane is finished. Indeed, I think the more
different models you fly the more you will appreciate your
XL. Perhaps the 172 is reasonably close in general behavior to the
XL, but if you load up the 172 it will be a lot more sluggish than your plane.
I wish you luck.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 02:41 AM 1/28/2007, you wrote:
>I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft
>world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am
>building a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit
>more free to dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to
>prepare by flying something more similar to it than the Cessna. I
>have started transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one
>before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went up again
>yesterday in the composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the
>ground, pulling hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged
>mule. I wonder if that's normal, because of the free castering
>nosewheel and the nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that
>particular airplane. Maybe something is out of whack. There's not
>much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot on the ground.
>How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly Katanas? The
>thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep it on
>centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with
>the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are
>172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more
>similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've
>been happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I
>going to be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is
>heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I
>can get happy with the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac?
>
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
I learned to fly in a Grumman which has a free castoring nose wheel, I
admit it bothered me for the first few flights. However, after a few
flights it becomes second nature to drag a little brake to keep it
straight until the rudder becomes effective, I actually wish the XL was
free castoring. On the subject of handling, I am sure you will find the
XL very easy to fly and that is from a low-time pilot. The last time I
flew as pilot in command was a little more than 20 years ago and I
became comfortable with the XL very quickly, even with my lack of
experience. I am sure you will get a response from highly experienced
pilots soon, I just thought you might also want the opinion from someone
that was concerned about the same issues.
Clyde Barcus
601 XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jennifer Moorhouse
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:41 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.
I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft
world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building
a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to
dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying
something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started
transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been
a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the composite
beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the
right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's
normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind,
10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out
of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot
on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly
Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep
it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with
the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are
172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more
similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been
happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to
be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the
152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with
the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
--> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
There are two 601's on the west coast you can rent. If you're already flying
a 152 I would be surprised if you could not transition in less than an hour.
Let me know if you are interested in contact info.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer
Moorhouse
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:42 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.
I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. I
haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 601XL,
currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to dedicate to the
rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying something more
similar to it than the Cessna. I have started transitioning to a Diamond
Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went
up again yesterday in the composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the
ground, pulling hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I
wonder if that's normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the
nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe
something is out of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to
be used a lot on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also
fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep
it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with the
cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are 172s. I
could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more similar to the
Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been happy putting
about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to be happy in a
lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac
is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with the Katana, is it good
preparation for the Zodiac?
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito" <lenabeto(at)uol.com.br> |
| Subject: | Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight |
Hi Folks,
After almost 3,000 working hours, my "Zodiac XL 601" has finally been
flown.
It was gorgeous.
Thus far I don't have the technical data , but when i do, I'll put them
here.
You can see it here
http://www.airfox.com.br/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7
Roberto Brito
Zodiac XL601
Plans
Jabiru 3300
Woodcomp SR 3000 prop.
Enigma.
S=E3o Paulo-Brazil...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: NOT wing flutter! |
Andy, thanks for the input and I don't doubt your a ton smart on the subject.
Still I saw what I saw, heard what I heard, and felt what I felt. I have
flown enough to have seen a few wings bend in bumps. Even put a wrinkle in a
Warrior wing once, but that's another story. If you extend your arm straight out
to
your side and move the end of your fingers up and down about 2 -3 inches as
fast as you can until they blur and hum very loud as you do this you can
recreate what I saw and heard. Some scientist I am ? Oh, well. I knew I was in
trouble when it did not change sound when I cut power. That's when I rolled over
to dive away and it ended somewhere in the roll and dive. I will recheck
everything and cable stretch as well. Thanks again, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
Jennifer-
I've been told by CFIs who do a lot of "Test piloting" for
homebuilts that the closest certificated match to a 601 is a 108hp
Grumman 2 place trainer. I think it's an AA-2, but don't quote me on
that- you can find out easy enough on-line.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Jennifer Moorhouse
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:41 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.
I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft
world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building
a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to
dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying
something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started
transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been
a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the composite
beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the
right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's
normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind,
10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out
of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot
on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly
Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep
it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with
the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are
172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more
similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been
happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to
be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the
152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with
the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
--> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
Jennifer,
Tell us where you are located. There might be a
Zodiac close enough to fly.
R/
Brandon
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight |
Roberto,
Nice looking plane. Please keep us updated on
performance. I suspect your canopy / turtledeck
modification will yield very nice performance numbers
paired with Jab power. Very nice job.
VR/
Brandon
601 HDS / TD / Corvair
56 hours
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Flutter |
All-
Since I was responsible for the observation of Dutch Roll in the YouTube
clip refered to here, let me make a public retraction. Other YouTube clips
have shown smoothly flown 601 landing patterns. It seems the "Twitchiness"
I observed was due to PIO, and is not to be confused with the no BS Dutch
Roll inherent in an A36 Bonanza.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Flutter
>
> Sheesh. I gotta chime in here...
>
> This is normal and has nothing to do with "flutter". I'd file this one
> right along side all the "twitchy" nonsense that was going around a few
> months ago.
>
> The guy hit a strong thermal due to rising heat off the steam stacks.
> Simple as that. I see this regularly in my Piper Warrior.
>
> The downwind 45 entry to my home airport runs right over the top of an oil
> refinery. Lots of heat. Always enough to bump you as you go over, and
> once it was enough to put me nearly on my side.
>
> You have to expect that sort of thing when flying over a large heat
> source.
>
> Regarding the wings bouncing - watch the normal flex of your wings (or
> look out the window next time you're on an airliner). Push & pull on that
> thing in your hands and watch what your wings do...
>
> Suggestion: go back and fly over that power plant again. Go high and
> slow, watch your altimeter, and expect some bumps. It won't be so bad now
> that you can anticipate what's going to happen. Seriously, give this a
> shot.
>
> - Patrick
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90989#90989
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
All-
I've decided to shit-can my kinked .016 fuse side skins and make new
.025 skins. Can I do away with the gussets intended for use with .016?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BadBob" <badbob0007(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
I was lucky enough to fly a 601XL a couple of weeks back. The aircraft
belongs to Pete Andersen and in located at Hillsboro, Oregon. The
workmanship on the airplane is great and everything looked straight.
Roll control is stiff (but not excessive) and pitch is sensitive. I own
a Cassutt racer that is not as pitch sensitive as the XL ( however roll
is EXTREMELY quick! :-) ). Now a friend owns a Lansair 235 that is MUCH
more pitch sensitive than the XL. I did not operate the XL in slow
flight mode but watching the control inputs while landing it appears to
handle much like a trainer. My only concern for a low time pilot would
be overcontrolling the aircraft in the pitch axes. As long as you could
keep a relaxed hand on the stick that wouldn't be a problem. Having said
this the XL trims out nicely for hands off stable flight!
I hope this helps!
Bob Johnson in Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac. |
| From: | Brad DeMeo <demeo(at)sonic.net> |
I fly a Piper Cherokee 140 rental. I find the characteristics are
closer to the Zodiac XL than the 152. I am lucky enough to be near a
Zodiac at a local training school. I go up in it as much as possible.
If you can find one within reach, go spend some time in it. It's a
real pleasure to fly!!!
Brad DeMeo
Zodiac XL 80% done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Wilcox <keystone(at)gci.net> |
JG
I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!!
I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need now is a
nice day.
We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this winter we
have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital of the world.
Flight test results soon.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Waiting for a nice day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Young" <armyret(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight |
Roberto- Congrats on a beautiful XL and a great flight. Hope you have
many more just as satisfying.
Al Young
XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: The Special Zodiac first flight
Hi Folks,
After almost 3,000 working hours, my "Zodiac XL 601" has finally been
flown.
It was gorgeous.
Thus far I don't have the technical data , but when i do, I'll put
them here.
You can see it here
http://www.airfox.com.br/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7
Roberto Brito
Zodiac XL601
Plans
Jabiru 3300
Woodcomp SR 3000 prop.
Enigma.
S=E3o Paulo-Brazil...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 701 builders top skin measurements |
| From: | "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com> |
All 701 builders,
Quick question, I have Edition #4, 6th printing 02/2002. Part 7F2-1 (Top Skin)
on the aft end shows two measurements for the tail end. I have a Centerline measurement
of 62.5mm, but it also shows an overall measurement of 135mm.
What does the kit have, or what is the measurement of somebody's later set of plans?
I have already cut to 125mm before I noticed the second measurement, but if it
is 135mm, I will build a doubler plate to fit in the aft end of the Top Skin.
Thanks for all of your support on this list.
Keith
CH701 ------- scratch -- still cutting out parts
Sidewinder -- scratch -- 8%
Teenie Two -- scratch -- wooden forms
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Venables" <roger(at)nwtradingpost.com> |
| Subject: | 701 builders top skin measurements |
Keith
My plans show 67.5 cl, overall 135
Roger
Kenmore, WA CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Keith
-AES
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements
All 701 builders,
Quick question, I have Edition #4, 6th printing 02/2002. Part 7F2-1 (Top
Skin) on the aft end shows two measurements for the tail end. I have a
Centerline measurement of 62.5mm, but it also shows an overall measurement
of 135mm.
What does the kit have, or what is the measurement of somebody's later set
of plans?
I have already cut to 125mm before I noticed the second measurement, but if
it is 135mm, I will build a doubler plate to fit in the aft end of the Top
Skin.
Thanks for all of your support on this list.
Keith
CH701 ------- scratch -- still cutting out parts
Sidewinder -- scratch -- 8%
Teenie Two -- scratch -- wooden forms
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 701 builders top skin measurements |
| From: | "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com> |
Thanks Roger,
I guess I will build a doubler that has to correct dims on it!!
Thanks again.
Keith
*************************************************************************
**
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Roger Venables
Sent: Sun 1/28/2007 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements
Keith
My plans show 67.5 cl, overall 135
Roger
Kenmore, WA CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ashcraft,
Keith
-AES
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 builders top skin measurements
All 701 builders,
Quick question, I have Edition #4, 6th printing 02/2002. Part 7F2-1 (Top
Skin) on the aft end shows two measurements for the tail end. I have a
Centerline measurement of 62.5mm, but it also shows an overall
measurement
of 135mm.
What does the kit have, or what is the measurement of somebody's later
set
of plans?
I have already cut to 125mm before I noticed the second measurement, but
if
it is 135mm, I will build a doubler plate to fit in the aft end of the
Top
Skin.
Thanks for all of your support on this list.
Keith
CH701 ------- scratch -- still cutting out parts
Sidewinder -- scratch -- 8%
Teenie Two -- scratch -- wooden forms
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
************************************
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and
intended
solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If
you
have
received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that
any
views
or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and
do
not
necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check
this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts
no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
e-mail.
************************************
************************************
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intende
d solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If yo
u have
received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that
any views
or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and d
o not
necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check
this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts
no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mai
l.
************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Builder support for the 601HD or HDS |
Yes, and if you try and match an earlier stab to a later model XL fuselage
that presents a few glitches. (Which as I am lead to believe can be
overcome!!)
Ron
>Actually the XL may be the worse choice in terms of future parts
>availability. That is because the XL is still evolving. I can't order many
>parts for my vintage 2000 XL kit from Zenith because the plans have
>changes.
>The instrument panel has moved, the bulkheads have changed shape, etc. That
>is why lately I've been acting more like a scratch builder than a kit
>builder.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac |
Jennifer,
I agree with Bryan Martin but I offer another possibility.
I flew 10 hours and 100 landings in an Evector SportStar that was for rent
locally. I was able to fly it to my home airport for the extensive pattern work
(including simulated engine out in the pattern, landing on the adjacent grass
field) and I feel it was a good choice. Roger at Zenith suggested getting time
in something light with quicker responses than "Wichita Spam Cans". The
Sportstar is Rotax powered with split flaps but it is very similar to the XL.
Attached is a nose to nose comparison pic I took of the Sportstar and my XL before
its first flight in November. My inspector is also an EAA flight advisor and
he agreed the Sportstar is a good choice. I still went to Mexico and flew with
Roger in the factory XL one last time before I flew. I don't know how I could
have been more prepared. First flight was uneventful. The 601XL is a very nice
flying plane and if you can confidently fly a Cessna 150/152, you'll have no
problem - except getting the smile off your face! Good Luck!
Tim Garrett
N360TM
601XL + Jabiru 3300
10 hours - in flight testing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question concerning Flanged Lightening holes sides |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
I made the same mistake on the spar web but because I worked so close I just stacked
the spar caps and angles to the opposite side. If it is just the wing tip
then like Dave says it probably won't make any difference.
Here is the link to my mistake:
or
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91188#91188
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac |
I can second the recommendation for the SportStar. I did half my training in
one and soloed in one at St Charles Flying Service outside of St. Louis.
Training in SportStars is a little more available than in XLs: Washington
state, California (north, middle and south), Colorado, Minnesota, Missouri,
Indiana, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania. See
<http://www.evektoramerica.com/wheretofly.html>
http://www.evektoramerica.com/wheretofly.html for details.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs feathers on an 801 |
Hi
I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon. The
leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to want to
climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons of fuel
and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH. Density
CG issues.
Before After
Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both
adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150 ROP
No flaps stall None Buffet at 58,
stall 50 indicated and GPS
Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49 GPS (only
done once)
Approach speed 50 58
Take off run Very short Much longer
250' 350'
Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure.
I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I was going
to bust FARs so I landed.
It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may be a
better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls feels
like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall.
The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at 90 mm
spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the "aileron".
This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner part of wing
stalling first but still lower speeds.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with more,
smaller VGs with less angle.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Wilcox" <keystone(at)gci.net>
Cc: ;
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject: VGs feathers
> JG
>
> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!!
>
> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need now
> is a nice day.
>
> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this
> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital of
> the world.
>
> Flight test results soon.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> Valdez, Alaska
> 280 hrs
> Waiting for a nice day
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Choice of planes to prepare for Zodiac |
Excelent topic. I vote for the Grumman AA-1 series because of its superficial
resemblence to a 601XL and its inferior numbers. I admit that I have not
flown it however. Consider the following: AA-1 has three feet less wing, half
again more wing loading,(XL=about 10, AA-1 15 to 15.5) and higher power loading.
If you can fly that ground loving pig, you should have no problem with an XL
with its nose wheel steering. I have flown about 45 types since 1957 and vote
for the Comanche 250 as the hardest to land and still look good, Mooney Mk-21
next. I also owned a BE-23 and Luscombe 8A. Both do not deserve their bad reps
and if you can find one, they will be good practice also. Get with a sadistic
instructor in any of these, and a 601XL should be a walk in the park.
Bob Dingley
Pace,FL 601XL rud & mtr mt.(Lyc and prop from an AA-1B)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan(at)entry.co.za> |
| Subject: | Amount of paint Required |
Hi All Listers.
I have now come to the point where painting is required:
Does anyone have an idea of the amount of paint required to paint a 601XL
How much (average) undercoat is required, and how much final colour is required?
Assuming one colour all over.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Thnx
Jonathan Starke
912S
65+ hrs and enjoying evry minute.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy Croy" <twcroy(at)gmail.com> |
Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to find an
instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private pilot or at a
minimum sport pilot I believe.
Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an expensive
mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on where to get a new
tinted canopy?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
Give Todd Silver a call at www.toddscanopies.com a call. He does
great work and very affordable.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:36 AM, Timothy Croy wrote:
> Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to
> find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private
> pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe.
>
> Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an
> expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on
> where to get a new tinted canopy?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help,
> Tim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Derfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac |
Jennifer --
I own and fly a 601XL and I've been checked out in and frequently rented the
next evolution of the Katana, the DA-20. I moved into the 601 from a
Grumman Cheetah and there was practically no "transition." A Grumman,
being heavier, gives a tiny bit smoother ride in gusty winds, but that's
being picky. The difference in avionics was a bigger step than the
difference in airframe -- by far!
A Grumman, like the 601, has great visibility. My Cheetah had almost
exactly the same performance as my 601... although the 601 has both less
payload and significantly less gas consumption. A Grumman Tiger (with 35
more HP than a Cheetah) will have a much better payload and a little better
speed than most 601s (with a LOT more gas consumption). The stock Grumman
AA1A Yankee ... the earliest version.. probably has poorer performance
than any 601, but many Yankees were up-engined.
The Grumman has free castering nose wheel. Someone commented that they
wished they had that in a 601. Personally, I like the nose wheel steering
better than free castering, but your problems on taxi with the Katana seem
unique. I'd bet on a low tire or a bent corroded axle. Look hard at the
landing gear next time you fly the Diamond. Can you check the tire
pressures?
I do miss the sliding canopy of the Grumman! It was so nice to be able to
slide back that canopy!
Look around the field for a Grumman and try to get a ride. Grumman pilots
are a friendly bunch.
Failing that, just fly all of the single engine rental airplanes you can get
your hands on. The similarities will soon be more important than the
differences.
--
Frank Derfler
See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz
See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 builders top skin measurements |
Hello Keith,
I checked on the Zenith website for 701 updates. There appears to have been
an error in the drawings and it was corrected in the update notice. The CL
measurement for that station is 67.5, not 62.5. Total width should be
135mm. The update notice is entitled: "Updates 5th" dated 5/03. My
drawings dated 09/2003 reflect this length.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
HI Trevor, I believe we met at ZPH over the weekend. I recommend since Flight
Crafters is right across the street where you parked the plane, I would start
there, they are the east coast distributor for the zenith line, and could guide
you on how to install it. Besides the ouch, the plane is a beautifull rendition
of the HDS, nice plane!
Russ's number at flight crafters is 813-690-1916.
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
>From: Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca>
>Sent: Jan 29, 2007 6:59 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy
>
>Give Todd Silver a call at www.toddscanopies.com a call. He does
>great work and very affordable.
>
>Trev Page
>C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
>
>On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:36 AM, Timothy Croy wrote:
>
>> Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to
>> find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private
>> pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an
>> expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on
>> where to get a new tinted canopy?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your help,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Amount of paint Required |
Per my last two quote for Endura Paint, two quarts of paint base, and two quarts
of hardener. ONe gallon total depending on the touch and hand that sprays
it. It adds approximately 18 to 20 lbs to over all weight. That is base primer,
base paint and either clear coat or hardener.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Starke <jonathan(at)entry.co.za>
>Sent: Jan 29, 2007 1:43 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Amount of paint Required
>
>Hi All Listers.
>
>I have now come to the point where painting is required:
>
>Does anyone have an idea of the amount of paint required to paint a 601XL
>
>How much (average) undercoat is required, and how much final colour is required?
>Assuming one colour all over.
>
>Your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thnx
>Jonathan Starke
>912S
>65+ hrs and enjoying evry minute.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Amount of paint Required |
Hi Jonathan,
I just painted my 601HDS taking from April to November of 2006.
Paint stock was 1-1/2 gallons primer, 2 gallons of base coat and 1
gallon of trim color.
I primed and stripped the tail feathers twice before getting it right.
The actual weight
of the plane after reassembly increased 13 pounds for paint and 2 lbs
for a main gear plate
upgrade. Of course, a lot depends on what kind of paint you intend to
use as well. I went
with a waterborne catalyst-urethane from Aircraft Finishing Systems,
(now Hangar21 AFS).
I have a paint page on my website that may help you get the job done.
Lots of
pictures from booth to handling, breathing gear, paint setups for parts
to finish.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/paint/full/601ezfrontleftqtr.gif
Good luck,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jonathan Starke wrote:
> Hi All Listers.
>
> I have now come to the point where painting is required:
>
> *Does anyone have an idea of the amount of paint required to paint a
> 601XL*
> **
> *How much (average) undercoat is required, and how much final colour
> is required? Assuming one colour all over.*
> **
> *Your help would be greatly appreciated.*
> **
> *Thnx*
> *Jonathan Starke*
> *912S*
> *65+ hrs and enjoying evry minute.*
> **
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing flutter! |
Tim, I heard the roar/ryrthem, felt the hard vibration, left hand went to
the throttle, looked to the left, saw the wing "fluttering" about 2-3 inches up
and down to a blur in unison with the roar and vibration, yelled " OH SHIT
!, looked back at the speed indicator, read 142 mph, pulled throttle back and
nose up for a split second, no change to roar and vibration, banked hard left
and dove mostly inverted, somewhere in roll and dive roar and vibration ended,
pulled out, leveled off at about 170 mph, slow to about 100 mph, creep easy
back to field. The whole thing from beginning of roar to end may have been 5-6
seconds. Things can move pretty fast when scared. Lesson learned, stay away,
way, way from power plants, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 103 XL hours, 90
flights
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing flutter! |
| From: | "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch> |
Good article about flying trough turbulence by Mr. Machado:
Rgds
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91358#91358
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs feathers on an 801 |
Gday Bill,
Well, that's interesting......
Yeh, one of the first things you do notice from removing slats is the
increase in climb - all that power (about 23% measured on the Savannah) that
was used to overcome the drag is now available for climb.
A bit disappointed in the stall characteristics tho - our 701's and
Savannahs just get back to a high descent mush, much like with the slats.
What's the position of your Feathers now?? It sounds like they could be
better even farther forward - I'd try them at 7%.
Wishing you some good weather for further experimenting. Here we have lots
of 37*C (99*F) weather to spare, but even if we could send some of it to
you, I guess it would be a mess on top of 20 ft of snow.......
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keystone Engineering LLC" <keystone(at)gci.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
>
>
> Hi
>
> I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon. The
> leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to want
> to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons of
> fuel and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH.
> notice any CG issues.
>
> Before After
> Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both
> adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150 ROP
> No flaps stall None Buffet at 58,
> stall 50 indicated and GPS
> Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49 GPS
> (only done once)
> Approach speed 50 58
> Take off run Very short Much longer
> 250' 350'
> Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure.
>
> I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I was
> going to bust FARs so I landed.
>
> It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may be a
> better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls feels
> like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall.
>
> The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at 90 mm
> spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the
> "aileron". This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner part
> of wing stalling first but still lower speeds.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> Valdez, Alaska
> 280 hrs
> Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with more,
> smaller VGs with less angle.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Wilcox" <keystone(at)gci.net>
> To:
> Cc: ;
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM
> Subject: VGs feathers
>
>
>> JG
>>
>> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!!
>>
>> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need
>> now is a nice day.
>>
>> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this
>> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital
>> of the world.
>>
>> Flight test results soon.
>>
>> Bill Wilcox
>> N801BW
>> Valdez, Alaska
>> 280 hrs
>> Waiting for a nice day
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jpspencer(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Feathers vgs on 801 |
On my 701 I moved the vgs 3 times before I found the right spot(8%). I
tried 12%, 10% and finally 8%. The difference small position changes
made was big.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy Croy" <twcroy(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, I will check in to these.
Appreciate the help,
Tim
On 1/29/07, Juan Vega wrote:
>
>
> HI Trevor, I believe we met at ZPH over the weekend. I recommend since
> Flight Crafters is right across the street where you parked the plane, I
> would start there, they are the east coast distributor for the zenith line,
> and could guide you on how to install it. Besides the ouch, the plane is a
> beautifull rendition of the HDS, nice plane!
> Russ's number at flight crafters is 813-690-1916.
>
>
> Juan Vega
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca>
> >Sent: Jan 29, 2007 6:59 AM
> >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy
> >
> >Give Todd Silver a call at www.toddscanopies.com a call. He does
> >great work and very affordable.
> >
> >Trev Page
> >C-IDUS 601HD R912
> >
> >
> >On Jan 29, 2007, at 5:36 AM, Timothy Croy wrote:
> >
> >> Just bought a CH601HDS and absolutely love it, though I need to
> >> find an instructor in the Tampa area to train me up as a private
> >> pilot or at a minimum sport pilot I believe.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, I did a stupid thing and cracked the canopy - an
> >> expensive mistake from what I understand.. Anyone have thoughts on
> >> where to get a new tinted canopy?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance for your help,
> >> Tim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Landing Light Kit Assembly Grief |
| From: | Brad DeMeo <demeo(at)sonic.net> |
I experienced a lot of grief trying to hold together the %$@#*! landing
light assembly while getting it fastened to the channel in the left
wing. Every time I tried to get the bolts through the face plate and
the backing plate and get the bushings and springs on and then put the
darn thing up to the channel the assembly would lean and mush and the
springs would fall off the bolts and boing away and the face plate
would loosen and fall off and my blood pressure would rise rapidly and
family would look at me in shock after a few choice words...So...I have
learned a trick that works well for mounting the lights onto the
channel. After drilling all holes and making the notch in the backing
plates per the plans, proceed as follows: First, stand all four bolts
upside down on a work bench. Second, feed the face plate over the
bolts. Third, slide the bushings (11 mm each) onto the bolts. Fourth,
place light in the circle of face plate with filament of bulb vertical
(a hard landing will break the filament if horizontal). Fifth, place
the backing plate over the bolts and over the back of the light. Then,
go to Ace Hardware and purchase 8 pin clips (Servalite PC9...4 per
light assembly, one for each bolt). Sixth, slide pin clips onto bolts
at backing plate to hold the light assembly firm. Seventh, place
springs over bolts and carefully raise the light assembly to the
channel inside the wing and tighten the screws as desired/needed to
focus the lights. The pin clips will save a lot of agony over trying
to get the loose assembly up to the channel for final assembly. The
pin clips are metal and will handle the heat near the lamp. After a
dozen tries without pin clips, my first attempt with pin clips was
successful and complete in less than 5 minutes!
Brad DeMeo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing flutter! |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Like I said. I'm glad you came out of it OK. And I hate Monday morning quaterbacking
but I don't think at a point where the structure of the aircraft is in question
that the best idea is to spead up to within 10 MPH of the VNE of the aircraft.
That said have you looked at the attachement points yet? Is there any visible damage?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91678#91678
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | VGs feathers on an 801 |
Hi
I moved the feathers VGs about an inch farther forward. The chord is 57". The
front of the VG is at 3" and the back is at 4" behind the leading edge of the
wing (along the chord). 3.4" is 6% of the chord.
I also installed more Vgs. I continued the 60 mm spacing to the second leading
edge slat bracked from the wing tip. The rest of the wing is on a 90 mm spacing.
The density altitude was -2500' at take off. I was light about 1600 lbs. Again
it climbed like a home sick angle. I was getting 800-900 FPM at 80 mph.
The stall speed are the same as they were in my report on Monday.
Flaps up 50
Flaps down 45
The flaperons were effective even when the wing is stalled.
I may move them to 5% or I may change the VGs on the tail to see if that changes
anything.
Any suggestions?
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Slats still off
Doing some head scratching, trying to figure out what to do next.
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
Gday Bill,
Well, that's interesting......
Yeh, one of the first things you do notice from removing slats is the
increase in climb - all that power (about 23% measured on the Savannah) that
was used to overcome the drag is now available for climb.
A bit disappointed in the stall characteristics tho - our 701's and
Savannahs just get back to a high descent mush, much like with the slats.
What's the position of your Feathers now?? It sounds like they could be
better even farther forward - I'd try them at 7%.
Wishing you some good weather for further experimenting. Here we have lots
of 37*C (99*F) weather to spare, but even if we could send some of it to
you, I guess it would be a mess on top of 20 ft of snow.......
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keystone Engineering LLC" <keystone(at)gci.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
>
>
> Hi
>
> I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon. The
> leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to want
> to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons of
> fuel and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80 MPH.
> notice any CG issues.
>
> Before After
> Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both
> adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150 ROP
> No flaps stall None Buffet at 58,
> stall 50 indicated and GPS
> Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49 GPS
> (only done once)
> Approach speed 50 58
> Take off run Very short Much longer
> 250' 350'
> Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure.
>
> I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I was
> going to bust FARs so I landed.
>
> It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may be a
> better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls feels
> like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall.
>
> The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at 90 mm
> spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the
> "aileron". This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner part
> of wing stalling first but still lower speeds.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> Valdez, Alaska
> 280 hrs
> Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with more,
> smaller VGs with less angle.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Wilcox" <keystone(at)gci.net>
> To:
> Cc: ;
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM
> Subject: VGs feathers
>
>
>> JG
>>
>> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!!
>>
>> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I need
>> now is a nice day.
>>
>> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far this
>> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow capital
>> of the world.
>>
>> Flight test results soon.
>>
>> Bill Wilcox
>> N801BW
>> Valdez, Alaska
>> 280 hrs
>> Waiting for a nice day
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs feathers on an 801 |
Bill,
I've kind of been keeping up on the slat issue. Does anyone use VG's
with slats? Does the slat change the airflow over the wing where the
VG's have effect? These are just questions I don't really know anything
about. I plan on using my slats anyway, but I'm curious about this
issue.
Thanks,
Dave in Salem - almost done with the wings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801
Hi
I moved the feathers VGs about an inch farther forward. The chord is
57". The front of the VG is at 3" and the back is at 4" behind the
leading edge of the wing (along the chord). 3.4" is 6% of the chord.
I also installed more Vgs. I continued the 60 mm spacing to the
second leading edge slat bracked from the wing tip. The rest of the
wing is on a 90 mm spacing.
The density altitude was -2500' at take off. I was light about 1600
lbs. Again it climbed like a home sick angle. I was getting 800-900
FPM at 80 mph.
The stall speed are the same as they were in my report on Monday.
Flaps up 50
Flaps down 45
The flaperons were effective even when the wing is stalled.
I may move them to 5% or I may change the VGs on the tail to see if
that changes anything.
Any suggestions?
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Slats still off
Doing some head scratching, trying to figure out what to do next.
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
Gday Bill,
Well, that's interesting......
Yeh, one of the first things you do notice from removing slats is the
increase in climb - all that power (about 23% measured on the
Savannah) that
was used to overcome the drag is now available for climb.
A bit disappointed in the stall characteristics tho - our 701's and
Savannahs just get back to a high descent mush, much like with the
slats.
What's the position of your Feathers now?? It sounds like they could
be
better even farther forward - I'd try them at 7%.
Wishing you some good weather for further experimenting. Here we have
lots
of 37*C (99*F) weather to spare, but even if we could send some of it
to
you, I guess it would be a mess on top of 20 ft of snow.......
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keystone Engineering LLC" <keystone(at)gci.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
>
>
> Hi
>
> I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this afternoon.
The
> leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed to
want
> to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30 gallons
of
> fuel and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80
MPH.
did not
> notice any CG issues.
>
> Before
After
> Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH both
> adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to 150
ROP
> No flaps stall None Buffet at
58,
> stall 50 indicated and GPS
> Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49
GPS
> (only done once)
> Approach speed 50 58
> Take off run Very short Much
longer
> 250'
350'
> Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not measure.
>
> I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I
was
> going to bust FARs so I landed.
>
> It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it may
be a
> better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what stalls
feels
> like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall.
>
> The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at
90 mm
> spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the
> "aileron". This hopefully will still give aileron control and inner
part
> of wing stalling first but still lower speeds.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> Valdez, Alaska
> 280 hrs
> Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail with
more,
> smaller VGs with less angle.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Wilcox" <keystone(at)gci.net>
> To:
> Cc: ;
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM
> Subject: VGs feathers
>
>
>> JG
>>
>> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!!
>>
>> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I
need
>> now is a nice day.
>>
>> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far
this
>> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow
capital
>> of the world.
>>
>> Flight test results soon.
>>
>> Bill Wilcox
>> N801BW
>> Valdez, Alaska
>> 280 hrs
>> Waiting for a nice day
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <djdormer(at)cox.net> |
Bill:
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but I do have 22 years of military
flying with much of it as a flight engineer on medium transports. I think what
you experienced was severe vortexing over the wing tips due to the hot air below
the wing caused by the power plant opposed to the relatively cool air above.
The extreme vortexing phenomena produced a "hammering effect" on the top of
the wing causing it to flutter. I've experienced similar situations during descent
and final approach during extremely hot days while flying with the Corps
of Engineers in Saudi Arabia.
James D. Webber GS-11
Senior Training Specialist
Department of Attack Helicopter Training
jim.webber(at)eustis.army.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs feathers on an 801 |
Dave,
Yeh, I tried the VGs with slats. They make no difference in that
situation because the slats already give the accelerated airflow that
stays attached at high AoA. The slats do that job well, it's just that
they bring a very high drag that stays at all speeds including climb -
note Bill's observation about "climbing like an angel" - it's the
reduction in drag by removing the slats that gives the improvement.
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801
Bill,
I've kind of been keeping up on the slat issue. Does anyone use VG's
with slats? Does the slat change the airflow over the wing where the
VG's have effect? These are just questions I don't really know anything
about. I plan on using my slats anyway, but I'm curious about this
issue.
Thanks,
Dave in Salem - almost done with the wings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801
Hi
I moved the feathers VGs about an inch farther forward. The chord
is 57". The front of the VG is at 3" and the back is at 4" behind the
leading edge of the wing (along the chord). 3.4" is 6% of the chord.
I also installed more Vgs. I continued the 60 mm spacing to the
second leading edge slat bracked from the wing tip. The rest of the
wing is on a 90 mm spacing.
The density altitude was -2500' at take off. I was light about 1600
lbs. Again it climbed like a home sick angle. I was getting 800-900
FPM at 80 mph.
The stall speed are the same as they were in my report on Monday.
Flaps up 50
Flaps down 45
The flaperons were effective even when the wing is stalled.
I may move them to 5% or I may change the VGs on the tail to see if
that changes anything.
Any suggestions?
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Slats still off
Doing some head scratching, trying to figure out what to do next.
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
Gday Bill,
Well, that's interesting......
Yeh, one of the first things you do notice from removing slats is
the
increase in climb - all that power (about 23% measured on the
Savannah) that
was used to overcome the drag is now available for climb.
A bit disappointed in the stall characteristics tho - our 701's and
Savannahs just get back to a high descent mush, much like with the
slats.
What's the position of your Feathers now?? It sounds like they
could be
better even farther forward - I'd try them at 7%.
Wishing you some good weather for further experimenting. Here we
have lots
of 37*C (99*F) weather to spare, but even if we could send some of
it to
you, I guess it would be a mess on top of 20 ft of snow.......
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keystone Engineering LLC" <keystone(at)gci.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
>
>
> Hi
>
> I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this
afternoon. The
> leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It seemed
to want
> to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30
gallons of
> fuel and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at 80
MPH.
did not
> notice any CG issues.
>
> Before
After
> Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH
both
> adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to
150 ROP
> No flaps stall None Buffet
at 58,
> stall 50 indicated and GPS
> Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated 49
GPS
> (only done once)
> Approach speed 50 58
> Take off run Very short Much
longer
> 250'
350'
> Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not
measure.
>
> I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and I
was
> going to bust FARs so I landed.
>
> It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it
may be a
> better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what
stalls feels
> like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall.
>
> The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are at
90 mm
> spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of the
> "aileron". This hopefully will still give aileron control and
inner part
> of wing stalling first but still lower speeds.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> Valdez, Alaska
> 280 hrs
> Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail
with more,
> smaller VGs with less angle.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Wilcox" <keystone(at)gci.net>
> To:
> Cc: ;
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM
> Subject: VGs feathers
>
>
>> JG
>>
>> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!!
>>
>> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All I
need
>> now is a nice day.
>>
>> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far
this
>> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow
capital
>> of the world.
>>
>> Flight test results soon.
>>
>> Bill Wilcox
>> N801BW
>> Valdez, Alaska
>> 280 hrs
>> Waiting for a nice day
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs feathers on an 801 |
THANKS. THAT CLEARS THINGS UP.
----- Original Message -----
From: JG
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801
Dave,
Yeh, I tried the VGs with slats. They make no difference in that
situation because the slats already give the accelerated airflow that
stays attached at high AoA. The slats do that job well, it's just that
they bring a very high drag that stays at all speeds including climb -
note Bill's observation about "climbing like an angel" - it's the
reduction in drag by removing the slats that gives the improvement.
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ruddiman
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801
Bill,
I've kind of been keeping up on the slat issue. Does anyone use VG's
with slats? Does the slat change the airflow over the wing where the
VG's have effect? These are just questions I don't really know anything
about. I plan on using my slats anyway, but I'm curious about this
issue.
Thanks,
Dave in Salem - almost done with the wings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801
Hi
I moved the feathers VGs about an inch farther forward. The chord
is 57". The front of the VG is at 3" and the back is at 4" behind the
leading edge of the wing (along the chord). 3.4" is 6% of the chord.
I also installed more Vgs. I continued the 60 mm spacing to the
second leading edge slat bracked from the wing tip. The rest of the
wing is on a 90 mm spacing.
The density altitude was -2500' at take off. I was light about
1600 lbs. Again it climbed like a home sick angle. I was getting
800-900 FPM at 80 mph.
The stall speed are the same as they were in my report on Monday.
Flaps up 50
Flaps down 45
The flaperons were effective even when the wing is stalled.
I may move them to 5% or I may change the VGs on the tail to see
if that changes anything.
Any suggestions?
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Slats still off
Doing some head scratching, trying to figure out what to do next.
From: "JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
Gday Bill,
Well, that's interesting......
Yeh, one of the first things you do notice from removing slats is
the
increase in climb - all that power (about 23% measured on the
Savannah) that
was used to overcome the drag is now available for climb.
A bit disappointed in the stall characteristics tho - our 701's
and
Savannahs just get back to a high descent mush, much like with the
slats.
What's the position of your Feathers now?? It sounds like they
could be
better even farther forward - I'd try them at 7%.
Wishing you some good weather for further experimenting. Here we
have lots
of 37*C (99*F) weather to spare, but even if we could send some
of it to
you, I guess it would be a mess on top of 20 ft of snow.......
JG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keystone Engineering LLC" <keystone(at)gci.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs feathers on an 801
>
>
> Hi
>
> I got about 30 minutes of weather good enough to fly this
afternoon. The
> leading edge slats are off and the feather VGs are on. It
seemed to want
> to climb like a home sick angel. I was light (1600 lbs), 30
gallons of
> fuel and 230 pounds of me with nothing else. I saw 900 FPM at
80 MPH.
I did not
> notice any CG issues.
>
> Before
After
> Cruise 103 MPH 111 MPH
both
> adjusted to 4500' standard temp at 85% power 10.5 GPH leaned to
150 ROP
> No flaps stall None
Buffet at 58,
> stall 50 indicated and GPS
> Full flaps stall None I assumed 38 45 indicated
49 GPS
> (only done once)
> Approach speed 50 58
> Take off run Very short Much
longer
> 250'
350'
> Landing distance: the breaking action was poor so I did not
measure.
>
> I need to fly more in this configuration. The fog moved in and
I was
> going to bust FARs so I landed.
>
> It is weird flying a plane that will actually stall! I think it
may be a
> better plane to teach the kids to fly. They would learn what
stalls feels
> like. The flaperons are effective even in the stall.
>
> The VG spacing for the outboard 3' is at 60 MM and the rest are
at 90 mm
> spacing. I may change the spacing to 60 MM for the length of
the
> "aileron". This hopefully will still give aileron control and
inner part
> of wing stalling first but still lower speeds.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> Valdez, Alaska
> 280 hrs
> Waiting for a flying day. Going to replace the VGs on the tail
with more,
> smaller VGs with less angle.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Wilcox" <keystone(at)gci.net>
> To:
> Cc: ;
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:31 AM
> Subject: VGs feathers
>
>
>> JG
>>
>> I got the feathers you sent. Thank you!!
>>
>> I took the old VGs off and put the feathers on last night. All
I need
>> now is a nice day.
>>
>> We have been having snow storm after snow storm lately. So far
this
>> winter we have received 250" of snow. Thus is life in the snow
capital
>> of the world.
>>
>> Flight test results soon.
>>
>> Bill Wilcox
>> N801BW
>> Valdez, Alaska
>> 280 hrs
>> Waiting for a nice day
>>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fulp" <jrfulp(at)ncia.net> |
You were in the wrong place/wrong time...the warm/cold air set-up a perfect
(bad) wing frequency harmonic...instead of diving you should have pulled
UP...slow...get your bearings...diving to 170MPH?? You should be ????
Glad your OK
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
djdormer(at)cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Flutter
Bill:
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but I do have 22 years of
military flying with much of it as a flight engineer on medium transports. I
think what you experienced was severe vortexing over the wing tips due to
the hot air below the wing caused by the power plant opposed to the
relatively cool air above. The extreme vortexing phenomena produced a
"hammering effect" on the top of the wing causing it to flutter. I've
experienced similar situations during descent and final approach during
extremely hot days while flying with the Corps of Engineers in Saudi Arabia.
James D. Webber GS-11
Senior Training Specialist
Department of Attack Helicopter Training
jim.webber(at)eustis.army.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | VGs feathers on an 801 |
Dave
My understanding is "stacking" high lift devices on top of each other does not
add significantly to the performance.
I plan on putting the slats back on over the VGs. I'm planning on having the take
off and landing distances measured in both configurations at the Valdez May
Day Fly-in.
Bill
Bill,
I've kind of been keeping up on the slat issue. Does anyone use VG's
with slats? Does the slat change the airflow over the wing where the
VG's have effect? These are just questions I don't really know anything
about. I plan on using my slats anyway, but I'm curious about this
issue.
Thanks,
Dave in Salem - almost done with the wings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:23 PM
Subject: VGs feathers on an 801
Hi
I moved the feathers VGs about an inch farther forward. The chord is
57". The front of the VG is at 3" and the back is at 4" behind the
leading edge of the wing (along the chord). 3.4" is 6% of the chord.
I also installed more Vgs. I continued the 60 mm spacing to the
second leading edge slat bracked from the wing tip. The rest of the
wing is on a 90 mm spacing.
The density altitude was -2500' at take off. I was light about 1600
lbs. Again it climbed like a home sick angle. I was getting 800-900
FPM at 80 mph.
The stall speed are the same as they were in my report on Monday.
Flaps up 50
Flaps down 45
The flaperons were effective even when the wing is stalled.
I may move them to 5% or I may change the VGs on the tail to see if
that changes anything.
Any suggestions?
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Slats still off
Doing some head scratching, trying to figure out what to do next.
T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jpspencer(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | vg feathers on an 801 |
Bill,
I don't know the 801 wing but my experience on a Legal Eagle and a 701
leads me to suggest that you try 8 %. That works great on both of those
wings. It's possible that at 6% the vortex is "flattening out" against
the remainder of the leading edge with consequent loss of effectiveness.
I tried vgs under the HS of my 701. I lost 2.5 mph and about 10-12% ROC.
The only benefit that I could see was a lighter pitch feel but no
increased effectiveness. I removed them in favor of the increased
performance over a lighter elevator.
FWIW
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs feathers on an 801 |
Bill,
Be sure and post what your results are for the take off and landings.
I'm more interested in those numbers than anything else. I think my
plane will be configured similar to yours when I'm finished. I have a
picture of you and your plane on the wall in the shop. It's nice to see
what the finished product will look like. Keeps me motivated.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:56 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: VGs feathers on an 801
Dave
My understanding is "stacking" high lift devices on top of each other
does not add significantly to the performance.
I plan on putting the slats back on over the VGs. I'm planning on
having the take off and landing distances measured in both
configurations at the Valdez May Day Fly-in.
Bill
Bill,
I've kind of been keeping up on the slat issue. Does anyone use VG's
with slats? Does the slat change the airflow over the wing where the
VG's have effect? These are just questions I don't really know anything
about. I plan on using my slats anyway, but I'm curious about this
issue.
Thanks,
Dave in Salem - almost done with the wings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:23 PM
Subject: VGs feathers on an 801
Hi
I moved the feathers VGs about an inch farther forward. The chord is
57". The front of the VG is at 3" and the back is at 4" behind the
leading edge of the wing (along the chord). 3.4" is 6% of the chord.
I also installed more Vgs. I continued the 60 mm spacing to the
second leading edge slat bracked from the wing tip. The rest of the
wing is on a 90 mm spacing.
The density altitude was -2500' at take off. I was light about 1600
lbs. Again it climbed like a home sick angle. I was getting 800-900
FPM at 80 mph.
The stall speed are the same as they were in my report on Monday.
Flaps up 50
Flaps down 45
The flaperons were effective even when the wing is stalled.
I may move them to 5% or I may change the VGs on the tail to see if
that changes anything.
Any suggestions?
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
280 hrs
Slats still off
Doing some head scratching, trying to figure out what to do next.
T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Flutter |
| From: | japhillipsga(at)aol.com |
John, the difference from 142 mph to 170 is 28 mph. How many seconds would your
XL at or near gross require to pick up 28 mph in a dive ? I've had my XL to 180ish
in a smooth shallow dive amd she seemed to handle well and I'm sure 20 %
more would be pushing too far, Best regards, Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: jrfulp(at)ncia.net
Sent: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Flutter
You were in the wrong place/wrong time...the warm/cold air set-up a perfect
(bad) wing frequency harmonic...instead of diving you should have pulled
UP...slow...get your bearings...diving to 170MPH?? You should be ????
Glad your OK
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
djdormer(at)cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Flutter
Bill:
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but I do have 22 years of
military flying with much of it as a flight engineer on medium transports. I
think what you experienced was severe vortexing over the wing tips due to
the hot air below the wing caused by the power plant opposed to the
relatively cool air above. The extreme vortexing phenomena produced a
"hammering effect" on the top of the wing causing it to flutter. I've
experienced similar situations during descent and final approach during
extremely hot days while flying with the Corps of Engineers in Saudi Arabia.
James D. Webber GS-11
Senior Training Specialist
Department of Attack Helicopter Training
jim.webber(at)eustis.army.mil
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | For 701 Builders Only - Update |
The followup video for Building your CH701 REAR FUESLAGE is now
available at:
http://www.homebuilthelp.com/Forward_Fuselage.htm
Can you believe it has a title of: FORWARD FUSELAGE !
Due to the complexity and detail of fitting/rigging the front fuse into
the rear, this is a 2 DVD set of 4 hrs duration total time.
Builders: Let's get our 701s completed and ready to fly by this summer!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
| From: | "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net> |
Hi,
I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts before priming
(indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking exposure
to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions on the aluminum
parts? I am currently building my rudder in a corner of my living room which
has turned out to be a nice comfortable work place. Am planning on brushing AFS
primer/sealer on the contact points and leaving the rest of the surfaces untreated.
I am also thinking of soaking the rivet heads in a thinned solution of
primer/sealer before riviting.
Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing alcohol?
Thanx...Eddie
---------------------------
[quote="John Bolding"]OK guys , I know you should have only one subject per post
but I prefer lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in a hurry.
Cleaning aluminum:
I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly not my
intent.
Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several others that
I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some solvent( MEK, acetone
and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the final prep for painting.
My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the middle
of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of failure. Normally
the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead role in these goat ropings
but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he was automatically the cause,
kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA Chapter holds elections, you WILL
be an office holder if you miss.
Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean surface, waterborne
materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my limited experience
anyway).
Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning.
Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and a rag
and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet with solvent.
You succeed in getting them to look a little better but you HAVEN'T taken
all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in smaller concentrations. Follow
up with a clean rag and more solvent reduces the concentrations but ....
you get the picture.
Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your hands)using
water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys called it "suspended"
'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to impress the customer)
and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the surface) to remove it ,you generally
get a squeaky clean surface first rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary.
What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you are
trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the molecular
level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at a boat dock and
noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few molecules thick. You CAN'T
be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash and rinse.
Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before birth tell
me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping down a car with
a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times. What impressed ME
was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to one of these meetings and
SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint film where it had peeled off.
Takes a lot of work to build an airplane, prep it properly.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91929#91929
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
Eddie-
I can see your problem- John's post never takes a stand other than "prep
carefully". You might want to narrow your search down by saying what type of
paint you intend to use (Enamel, lacquer, etc.) and see if anyone bites.
Good building.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics
>
> Hi,
>
> I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts
> before priming (indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
>
> So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking
> exposure to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions on
> the aluminum parts? I am currently building my rudder in a corner of my
> living room which has turned out to be a nice comfortable work place. Am
> planning on brushing AFS primer/sealer on the contact points and leaving
> the rest of the surfaces untreated. I am also thinking of soaking the
> rivet heads in a thinned solution of primer/sealer before riviting.
>
> Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing
> alcohol?
>
>
> Thanx...Eddie
>
> ---------------------------
>
> [quote="John Bolding"]OK guys , I know you should have only one subject
> per post but I prefer lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in
> a hurry.
>
> Cleaning aluminum:
>
> I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly
> not my intent.
> Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several
> others that I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some
> solvent( MEK, acetone and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the
> final prep for painting.
> My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the
> middle of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of
> failure. Normally the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead role
> in these goat ropings but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he was
> automatically the cause, kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA
> Chapter holds elections, you WILL be an office holder if you miss.
>
> Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean
> surface, waterborne materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my
> limited experience anyway).
> Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning.
>
> Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and a
> rag and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet with
> solvent. You succeed in getting them to look a little better but you
> HAVEN'T taken all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in smaller
> concentrations. Follow up with a clean rag and more solvent reduces the
> concentrations but .... you get the picture.
> Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your
> hands)using water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys
> called it "suspended" 'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to
> impress the customer) and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the
> surface) to remove it ,you generally get a squeaky clean surface first
> rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary.
> What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you
> are trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the
> molecular level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at
> a boat dock and noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few
> molecules thick. You CAN'T be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash
> and rinse.
>
> Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before
> birth tell me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping
> down a car with a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times.
> What impressed ME was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to
> one of these meetings and SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint
> film where it had peeled off. Takes a lot of work to build an airplane,
> prep it properly.
>
>
> LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>
>
>>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91929#91929
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
It's actually not an alternative but rather the norm in the finishing
industry. Aluminum parts going thru a conveyorized parts washer (long
tunnel with several tanks and hundreds of spray nozzles) use some pretty
aggressive chemicals sometimes depending on what they are trying to
remove but for alum that started out clean and only has smudges and oils
from our skin plus oily residue the air drill spit out Dawn or Woolite
plus water gets it down to the shine. RINSE WELL WITH AGITATION !! Skip
the alcohol, the part is already clean. DON'T dry it with compressed
air, a LITTLE oil in the air goes a long way, use a fan or a CLEAN
cotton rag.
If you were outside I'd use WO-1 or Alumaprep to put in a little tooth
for better adhesion but you can do that with the proper color of
Scotchbrite (I keep forgetting which color it is)
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts
before priming (indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking
exposure to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions
on the aluminum parts?
Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing
alcohol?
Thanx...Eddie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For 701 Builders Only - Update |
| From: | "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> |
Jon - Looks nice. Are you going to offer any combo deals for buying multiple videos
at a time?
BTW - Non-paid advertisement here. I have both of Jon's previous 701 videos (Metal
Working 101 and Scratch-building) and truly enjoyed them. Check 'em out if
you haven't.
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91945#91945
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics |
Eddie-
Figures, 15 minutes after I post this, John comes through. Can't
complain though, eh?
Good building.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics
>
> Eddie-
> I can see your problem- John's post never takes a stand other than
> "prep carefully". You might want to narrow your search down by saying what
> type of paint you intend to use (Enamel, lacquer, etc.) and see if anyone
> bites.
> Good building.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuselage
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eddie G." <silentlight(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:55 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cleaning aluminum, aerobatics
>
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was searching the archives for a good alternative to cleaning parts
>> before priming (indoors) and found John Bolding's writeup below.
>>
>> So, what is a good, safe cleaner that I can use indoor without risking
>> exposure to carcinogen chemicals and without causing chemical reactions
>> on the aluminum parts? I am currently building my rudder in a corner of
>> my living room which has turned out to be a nice comfortable work place.
>> Am planning on brushing AFS primer/sealer on the contact points and
>> leaving the rest of the surfaces untreated. I am also thinking of soaking
>> the rivet heads in a thinned solution of primer/sealer before riviting.
>>
>> Should I consider using soap and distilled water followed by rubbing
>> alcohol?
>>
>>
>> Thanx...Eddie
>>
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> [quote="John Bolding"]OK guys , I know you should have only one subject
>> per post but I prefer lurking to posting so I like to get it over with in
>> a hurry.
>>
>> Cleaning aluminum:
>>
>> I REALLY hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings here and that is certainly
>> not my intent.
>> Over the yrs I have read hundreds of times on this list and several
>> others that I monitor about wiping down the alum. part with some
>> solvent( MEK, acetone and lacquer thinner being the most common)as the
>> final prep for painting.
>> My career in the paint spray equipment industry for 35 yrs put me in the
>> middle of hundreds of paint film examinations to determine cause of
>> failure. Normally the paint supplier or part washer guy was the lead
>> role in these goat ropings but the equipment guy HAD to show up or he was
>> automatically the cause, kinda like missing a meeting when your EAA
>> Chapter holds elections, you WILL be an office holder if you miss.
>>
>> Some paints are more tolerant than others of a not perfectly clean
>> surface, waterborne materials and powder are the least tolerant (in my
>> limited experience anyway).
>> Solvent is a poor choice for cleaning.
>>
>> Imagine coming in from the shop for lunch and grabbing a can of MEK and
>> a rag and cleaning your greasy hands with it, no water, just a rag wet
>> with solvent. You succeed in getting them to look a little better but
>> you HAVEN'T taken all the dirt/ grease off, just moved it around in
>> smaller concentrations. Follow up with a clean rag and more solvent
>> reduces the concentrations but .... you get the picture.
>> Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be cleaned,(your
>> hands)using water and when you get all the junk floating (paint guys
>> called it "suspended" 'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to
>> impress the customer) and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood the
>> surface) to remove it ,you generally get a squeaky clean surface first
>> rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary.
>> What I learned from all these dog and pony shows was that the oils you
>> are trying to remove can be effective (with some coatings) down to the
>> molecular level at causing adhesion problems down the road. Ever been at
>> a boat dock and noticed the oil sheen on the water, it's only a few
>> molecules thick. You CAN'T be assured you get it ALL off unless you wash
>> and rinse.
>>
>> Now comes the part where 83 guys that have been painting since before
>> birth tell me that I'm all wet and they never had a problem in wiping
>> down a car with a rag and solvent. Save it, I heard it a thousand times.
>> What impressed ME was the chemist who brought along a BIG microscope to
>> one of these meetings and SHOWED me oil between the substrate and paint
>> film where it had peeled off. Takes a lot of work to build an airplane,
>> prep it properly.
>>
>>
>> LOW&SLOW John Bolding
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91929#91929
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy" <ding(at)tbscc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics book or videos - any recommendation? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avionics book or videos - any
recommendation?
I suggest a visit to www.aeroelectric.com
And, of course, there is the aeroelectric list @ Matronics.
Just follow the link to the Matronics Navigator page, in the trailer
below...
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
On 08/12/06, Eddie G. wrote:
silentlight(at)verizon.net>
Greetings,
Is there one or two good books or videos that you folks can
recommend on VHF antenna basics, selecting and installating antennas on
metal-frame aircrafts, avionics, connectors, wiring, etc.?
Thanx...Eddie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy" <ding(at)tbscc.com> |
| Subject: | Precision Leveling |
An excellent method for accurate leveling during fuselage construction.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Precision Leveling |
I just use a Smart Level mounted in a 48" beam. Works very well. Also
useful for matching blade pitch angles on a G.A. prop.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Nancy
To: Zenith-list
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Precision Leveling
An excellent method for accurate leveling during fuselage
construction.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/31/2007 3:16 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trainnut01(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The Garangar now has a name, "Air Fiero" |
Ron
Boy do I understand. I'm allowed to share space with my wife's Lincoln under
the threat of certain death "if I find even one scratch!"
Carroll Jernigan
XL Wings (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning aluminum, |
Bill,
Never is a pretty inclusive word.
My original post several months ago was pretty descriptive I thought.
Soap and water to remove the oils and crap ,followed by a water rinse.
No big magic. Solvent wiping is just one of those things that is used by
many just because it has become ingrained, not because it is better.
Will you have problems every time you solvent wipe? Of course not, BUT
you are kidding yourself if you think it's spotless clean. That's all I
was trying to get across.
No, I didn't specify what kind of soap or where to buy it but if
someone has to have his hand held that tightly just to clean his parts
then......Maybe I can sell some videos of a builder driving down to
WalMart to get his soap.
I try to lurk unless the discussion is an area that I KNOW, unlike
several on this list that would freely jump into a detailed seminar on
brain surgery with pages of OPINIONS on how it should be done.
My delete key is almost worn out.
LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Eddie-
I can see your problem- John's post never takes a stand other than
"prep
carefully". You might want to narrow your search down by saying what
type of
paint you intend to use (Enamel, lacquer, etc.) and see if anyone
bites.
Good building.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
Now if you agitate a surfactant(soap) into the part to be
cleaned,(your
> hands)using water and when you get all the junk floating (paint
guys
> called it "suspended" 'cause they made a lot of money and wanted to
> impress the customer) and introduce a rinse(LOTS of water to flood
the
> surface) to remove it ,you generally get a squeaky clean surface
first
> rattle out of the box. Repeat as necessary>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics book or videos - any recommendation? |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Ding, please refrain from posting in either RTF or HTML. The forum version of your
post is blank.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92062#92062
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg(at)swri.org> |
| Subject: | Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Hello All,
Just a note (although the attentive builders that monitor the
Zenith side probably already know), there are four updates on
the builders web site:
CS - Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes,
rev draft, dated 1/7
6-w-8aa - Wing Assembly: Checking Wing Twist
rev 1.0, 1/17/07
6-B-3 - Rear Side Skins / Rear Fuselage Members
rev 3.2, 1/18/07
6-B-11D - Upper Front Longerons / Fuselage Side Skins
rev 2.2, 1/24/07
--
Maarten Versteeg Southwest Research Institute
Phone: (210)522-5029 P.O. Drawer 28510
Fax: (210)522-5499 San Antonio, TX 78228-0510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trainnut01(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Martin
Don't want to sound too dumb but___ What builders web site? I haven't been
able to find it. Can you give me an address? Thanks.
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
| From: | "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch> |
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92096#92096
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Wacker" <ccwacker(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Go the www.zenthair.com there is a choice for builders on the upper left
side of the page. If you are a serial numbered builder you should have the
user name and password. If you do not have them call Shirley at Zenith.
Chuck Wacker
N601CW Quick Build
>From: Trainnut01(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Updates on Zenith builders web site
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:46:10 EST
>
>Martin
>Don't want to sound too dumb but___ What builders web site? I haven't been
>able to find it. Can you give me an address? Thanks.
>Carroll
_________________________________________________________________
something more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Jones" <waj(at)quik.com> |
Hello Group ,on page 6-B-13 what is the material thickness of the 956mm
wing jig web . Thanks
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Well here I am a little late to get the new here. It is a good thing to post those
findings here.
Thanks Maarten, I just printed them out.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92177#92177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
The template is just that, a template. It doesn't become part of the plane.
So all that matters is its outline and that it be stiff enough for it to be
dimensionally stable and used easily. Or am I completely missing the point
of your question?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Smit" <waterkant(at)gmail.com> |
Hallo to all, My name is Ron smit this is my first posting on this list,
bought a zodiac 601UL tail dragger C-FNSR last week I'm going to pick Her up
on the 16th of Feb. the test flight went very good .plane is well equipped
with transponder modeC ,Terra 760 .and intercom. engine is rotax912UL ,Im
looking forward to our first local flight, I live in Chilliwack B.C. and
know off no other zodiac in the lower mainland Vancouver area . I just sold
a super Koala with a 912 in it build by Fisher a big change for me , much
more aircraft this one ,cruise in Edmonton at 5500 ft -13 Celsius was almost
120 MPH IAS @ 4700 RPM stall was just under 55mph ias ( would like to get it
down a bit perhaps VG's) the only thing I noticed was the static RPM was no
more than 4300 RPM which seems a bit to low for me also I will have to put
some cabin vents in the plane as it is going to be to hot in the summer for
sure I found some very interesting stories on this list and will definitely
keep monitoring it Safe landings to all C-FNSR Ron Smit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Jones" <waj(at)quik.com> |
Thanks Craig ,I am aware that it is a template only .Just wondered what
thickness the factory supplied part was .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:34 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Jig
The template is just that, a template. It doesn't become part of the
plane. So all that matters is its outline and that it be stiff enough
for it to be dimensionally stable and used easily. Or am I completely
missing the point of your question?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com> |
In my kit the main web was .090.
Robin in AR
N601ZV Zen-Vair
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig
Thanks Craig ,I am aware that it is a template only .Just wondered
what thickness the factory supplied part was .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Vechinski <brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912 differences |
In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different engines for experimental
aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a 912S and a 912ULS, with different
prices. (the difference was only a couple of hundred) Is there a difference
between these models? HP, displacement, weight were all the same. My
guess would have been that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack
of) makes me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine?
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and
make it easy to get there:
www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/
>From there you will be ask for your Username and Password.
If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 differences |
Hi Ryan,
I think one is "Authorized by the manufacturer" for IFR
operations. This has no real meaning when the engine is installed in
an experimental airplane.
Paul
At 06:26 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote:
>In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different
>engines for experimental aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a
>912S and a 912ULS, with different prices. (the difference was only a
>couple of hundred) Is there a difference between these models? HP,
>displacement, weight were all the same. My guess would have been
>that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack of) makes
>me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine?
>
>Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mountain <mountain4don(at)yahoo.com> |
I am in the process of looking for an engine for my 601XL. Does anybody have a
source of information on the different Lycoming, Continental and other aircraft
engine models and specs? I have been looking at Lycoming and Continental engines
on Barnstormers and there seems to be a lot of different models of each
for sale. Neither the Lycoming or Continental web sites seem to have much information
on their engines.
Don Mountain
---------------------------------
Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
always stay connected to friends.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Shoup" <zenith601xl(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 differences |
As I understand.... The certified engine is the only one Rotax approves for
night or IFR flight. The non-certified engine is specifically not approved
for either. There is about $10,000 price difference. The only difference I
know of is the addition of carb heat. I guess it is a question of risk and
liability. Unfortunately I can't find a website that has pricing for the
certified engine to confirm my information. Jabiru imposes no such
restrictions.
Dennis
On 2/2/07, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> I think one is "Authorized by the manufacturer" for IFR
> operations. This has no real meaning when the engine is installed in
> an experimental airplane.
>
> Paul
>
> At 06:26 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote:
> >In the latest issue of Kitplane, they listed a lot of different
> >engines for experimental aircraft. For the Rotax, they list both a
> >912S and a 912ULS, with different prices. (the difference was only a
> >couple of hundred) Is there a difference between these models? HP,
> >displacement, weight were all the same. My guess would have been
> >that one was certified, but the price difference (or lack of) makes
> >me think different. Or is this just a mistake in the magazine?
> >
> >Ryan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Vechinski <brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912 differences |
The price difference was only about $800 (if I remember correctly). When I get
home and look at the article I'll find out for sure and let you know.
________________________________
> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:21:54 -0500
> From: zenith601xl(at)gmail.com
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 differences
>
> As I understand.... The certified engine is the only one Rotax approves for
night or IFR flight. The non-certified engine is specifically not approved for
either. There is about $10,000 price difference. The only difference I know
of is the addition of carb heat. I guess it is a question of risk and liability.
Unfortunately I can't find a website that has pricing for the certified
engine to confirm my information. Jabiru imposes no such restrictions.
> Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Jones" <waj(at)quik.com> |
Thanks for the information on the wing jig .I believe the .090 is what I
am looking for .Do any other kit builders also have the same thickness
for this part . Thanks
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Bellach
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig
In my kit the main web was .090.
Robin in AR
N601ZV Zen-Vair
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Jones
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Jig
Thanks Craig ,I am aware that it is a template only .Just wondered
what thickness the factory supplied part was .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net> |
| Subject: | Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit |
I have a pretty mundane question.
I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of
weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts
while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored
complete kits, without completely filling up the garage.
How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car
garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be
great. Thanks for your sharing your experience.
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
Just starting a 601 kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit |
| From: | "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> |
Terry - Check out Andre's site (courtesy of ch601.org)
http://home.tiscali.nl/a.vandenelsen/foto%20pagina%20's/begin/index.html
(Make sure to get the complete URL)
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92396#92396
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/checking_can_begin_135.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit |
You won't need much shelving.
I built my 12x4 bench on top of a Zenith crate, and still use the crate for
storage. Another Zenith crate was turned on it's side and acts as a shelf.
A peg board holds most of my tools. A small plastic tool box on wheels holds
my drill and rivet gun.
I put a few smaller shelves up as well to hold a radio and a holder for
screws/rivets.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2584/3102/1600/DSC00233.jpg
http://bp2.blogger.com/_mhDbWUJRTOE/RYeWYnGvw-I/AAAAAAAAAAY/-qi6re2CiW0/s1600-h/DSC01470.JPG
Good luck!
On 2/2/07, Terry Phillips wrote:
>
>
> I have a pretty mundane question.
>
> I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of
> weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts
> while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored
> complete kits, without completely filling up the garage.
>
> How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car
> garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be
> great. Thanks for your sharing your experience.
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> Just starting a 601 kit
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Don't mean to be a dummy, but does this site have anything relevant to the
CH640? I just found out that the 640 is a Zenair Ltd. "exclusive".
You can't even get a 640 rudder builder class at the Mexico MO location, so
I was wondering if they treated the builder support info the same way.
I was at first in love with the 801, but after careful consideration of our
past (and future) flying mission profiles, I would be better served by the
640 features.
My intent is to get as much prior knowledge as I can to plan my shop, tools,
panel, power plant systems in advance.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Craig Smith
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Race
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and
make it easy to get there:
www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/
>From there you will be ask for your Username and Password.
If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Sorry pilot4pay, there isn't any 640 info on the site.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92424#92424
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
The 640 info seems to be here. http://www.zenair.com/builders.html
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92425#92425
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Phillips" <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:16 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit
>
> I have a pretty mundane question.
>
> I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of
> weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts
> while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored
> complete kits, without completely filling up the garage.
>
> How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car
> garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be
> great. Thanks for your sharing your experience.
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> Just starting a 601 kit
>
>
> --
3:42 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Shelving for 601 project |
With regard to Terry Phillips' inquiry: I framed several shelves with
cheap 2x2s from Lowe's, then used the plywood from the boxes of the
various kits for the actual shelving. Plywood gussets reinforce the
joints in the framing. The plywood is flimsy, but the components are
light, for the most part. I even built a light-duty workbench for the
electrical part of the job that way. Building from component kits, I
had plenty of scruffy plywood to work with. I also made 2 horizontal
platforms to set on top of the wing center section stubs of my 601HD.
They make it easier to kneel there while working inside the cockpit
area. I realize that that's not an option for an XL.
A person could rip the 2x4s from the kit boxes to obtain most of the
2x2s for framing the shelves. I sold my radial arm saw to make room for
the airplane in my 2-car garage, so didn't do that.
As far as sizes, 18x48 has proven pretty handy for me.
George Swinford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Thanks for the link. I've already been there and the information is pretty
limited in scope and detail.
In the meantime, I'm learning from all of you building the other aircraft.
I'm sure that a lot of Chris's design and construction methods are common to
all models, just the details will be different. Thanks again.
Craig Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:19 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
The 640 info seems to be here. http://www.zenair.com/builders.html
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92425#92425
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
Dear Listers,
I am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to its cost and perhaps
debatable utility, I have been advised to leave it off. I sure would
like to hear some comments from the list as to whether this is a good
approach.
I am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with 912S engine. So far,
we have never used the carb heat. I am flying in Goldsboro, NC. That
is about 60 miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying the Continental
O-200, we used carb heat anytime under 2K rpm.
The POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing.
i.e. engine starting to lose power and run rough.
Many thanks,
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
Building CH701 - hoping to fly it in May, 07
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Sherman <msherman95632(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
Ken.=0A =0ANot sure who advised you to leave off the carb heat, sounds like
Zenith. For some reason they (Zenith) have not been supporting the carb h
eat/cold air intake on the 701. The Rotax 912ULS comes with a manifold tha
t is just for that purpose. According to Rotax you will not get all the 100
HP you paid for on the 912ULS with out this manifold.=0A =0AZenith first s
aid it wouldn't fit under the cowling, a fellow 701 builder down the street
fit it under his just fine. Now they (Zenith) have developed a new cowlin
g and still don't support the cold air intake. So that 100 HP you paid dea
rly for, is only giving you about 90 HP on take off.=0A =0AThat is the bigg
est reason I bought my Rotax and FWF from SkyShops.=0A =0AMark S.=0A701/912
ULS=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ken Arnold <arno7452@bellso
uth.net>=0ATo: Zenith List =0ASent: Friday, Febr
uary 2, 2007 2:09:14 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS?
=0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A =0AI am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to i
ts cost and perhaps debatable utility, I have been advised to leave it off.
I sure would like to hear some comments from the list as to whether this
is a good approach.=0A =0AI am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with
912S engine. So far, we have never used the carb heat. I am flying in Gol
dsboro, NC. That is about 60 miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying th
e Continental O-200, we used carb heat anytime under 2K rpm. =0A =0AThe POH
on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e. engin
e starting to lose power and run rough.=0A =0AMany thanks,=0AKen Arnold=0AP
===================0A=0A=0A =0A________
___________________________________________________________________________
_=0ANever Miss an Email=0AStay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile.
Get started!=0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jpspencer(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: carb heat on 912uls |
Ken
I have about 70 hours on my 701 with 912 ULS and the Zenith recommended
intake system. I have had one instance of carb ice and was able to get
out of the icing conditions with no problem in this case. My experience
is that the carbs WILL ice with the Zenith system.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
There is yet another way to heat the carbs, a very simple way using 12 VDC
power.
I am building a 701 with a Jabiru 2200A engine. Recently I received a carb
heat unit from Jabiru USA in Tennessee as part of my FWF kit.
I am very impressed with the "Heater Kit", it even comes with taps to thread
the holes for mounting.
I am sure that Pete at Jabiru USA can provide you with price and details.
Take a look at this UK WebSite for all the details on the heater unit.
http://www.jabiru.co.uk/other/carb_ice_eliminator.htm
I am sure this is yet another way to make sure you do not have ANY carb ice
formation, without a muffler muff and all the associated stuff that goes
with it.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit |
I stored everything but sheet metal and canopy on a shelf under the work
bench and on the floor under the bench.
Clyde Barcus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Phillips" <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Shelving required for a complete slow-build kit
>
> I have a pretty mundane question.
>
> I'm expecting delivery of my complete 601XL slow-build kit in a couple of
> weeks. I will need to build shelving (or whatever) to hold all the parts
> while I build the airframe. I would like to know how others have stored
> complete kits, without completely filling up the garage.
>
> How many shelves or bins, what size and shape? I have half of a 2-car
> garage to hold the storage and my 4'x12' work bench. Pictures would be
> great. Thanks for your sharing your experience.
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> Just starting a 601 kit
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Craig the only 640 workshop is held at Can-Zac Aviation. We support and
offer the complete Zenith and Zenair line of aircraft.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C Smith
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
Don=92t mean to be a dummy, but does this site have anything relevant to
the CH640? I just found out that the 640 is a Zenair Ltd.
=93exclusive=94.
You can=92t even get a 640 rudder builder class at the Mexico MO
location,
so I was wondering if they treated the builder support info the same
way.
I was at first in love with the 801, but after careful consideration of
our past (and future) flying mission profiles, I would be better served
by the 640 features.
My intent is to get as much prior knowledge as I can to plan my shop,
tools, panel, power plant systems in advance.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Craig Smith
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Race
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and
make it easy to get there:
HYPERLINK
"http://www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/"www.zenithair.com/builder-secu
re/
>From there you will be ask for your Username and Password.
If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith.
George
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
2/2/2007 3:42 PM
--
2/2/2007 3:42 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Try these: This one lists differences of many engine types.
http://home.adelphia.net/~aeroengine/index.html
This one lists weights and horsepower.
http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/engines.htm#Engines2
Maybe start at Ron Wattaja's home page. http://www.wattaja.com
Bob D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine info? (#2) |
This is a Lyc list and is fairly complete.
http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lycoming/Lyc_Cert_list.html
Bob D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Drill Bit Durability |
Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea of how
many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly drill bit (#30
and #20)?
Thanks,
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
In a message dated 2/2/2007 5:11:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
arno7452(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Ken,
I have the 701 with the firewall forward package from Czech works and it
came with the carb heat box. Had to use it a month ago while doing some touch
and goes and some engine out practice. While taking back off from the runway she
stumbled a bit,pulled the carb heat and she cleared right up. The advantage
to using the box with this firewall forward package is that you are not
sucking in heated air all the time, which allows you to develop more HP. Not sure
what setup you have and are installing. I also recommend installing a oil
cooler thermostat, this helps in getting your oil temps up quicker and not
having to tape off your oil cooler in the cooler weather. I might even consider
the ring mount engine mount. looks like a lot more room to get things run.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912uls/100hrs
Dear Listers,
I am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to its cost and perhaps debatable
utility, I have been advised to leave it off. I sure would like to hear some
comments from the list as to whether this is a good approach.
I am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with 912S engine. So far, we
have never used the carb heat. I am flying in Goldsboro, NC. That is about 60
miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying the Continental O-200, we used
carb heat anytime under 2K rpm.
The POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e.
engine starting to lose power and run rough.
Many thanks,
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
Building CH701 - hoping to fly it in May, 07
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Durability |
Hi Dave,
I use the threaded drill bits meant for aircraft use. I don't think
they are particularly hard alloys, but they work really well and
don't have problems slipping in your drill chuck as you finish each hole.
I start each hole with a #40 drill. I then use #30 and optionally
#20 to enlarge the holes. This means I virtually never need to
sharpen or replace anything but the #40 drills. I sharpen the #40s
using a bench grinder - maybe once a month - when they get dull. I
am more likely to break one than to sharpen it too many times. I
keep a supply of 2 or 3 spares and order more once a year or so. I
am still on my first #30 and #20.
I highly recommend you consider buying the right angle drill gizmo
from Aircraft Spruce that comes with adapters and a few screw mount
drill bits. I think the ones threaded 1/4 x 28 are the best
choice. Take a look:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/tightfittoolkit.php
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 06:57 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote:
>Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea
>of how many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly
>drill bit (#30 and #20)?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dave
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Methods of leveling |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Herb,
Thanks for the leveling insight.
I used your method of Arbor Press riveting this year and it worked out great.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92547#92547
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Durability |
And don't spin them as fast as an airdrill or a high speed electric
drill can. The heat of too high a speed shortens the cutting life.
Before you ask what rpm is best, I just learned from my dad saying "slow
it dow.... where's the fire?" so it's become a listen and feel thing
for me but I'd guess you're safe around 650 -800 rpm.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability
Hi Dave,
I use the threaded drill bits meant for aircraft use. I don't think
they are particularly hard alloys, but they work really well and don't
have problems slipping in your drill chuck as you finish each hole.
I start each hole with a #40 drill. I then use #30 and optionally #20
to enlarge the holes. This means I virtually never need to sharpen or
replace anything but the #40 drills. I sharpen the #40s using a bench
grinder - maybe once a month - when they get dull. I am more likely to
break one than to sharpen it too many times. I keep a supply of 2 or 3
spares and order more once a year or so. I am still on my first #30 and
#20.
I highly recommend you consider buying the right angle drill gizmo
from Aircraft Spruce that comes with adapters and a few screw mount
drill bits. I think the ones threaded 1/4 x 28 are the best choice.
Take a look:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/tightfittoolkit.php
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 06:57 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote:
Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea
of how many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly
drill bit (#30 and #20)?
Thanks,
Dave
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/2/2007 11:39 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Final assembly: Rear spar bolt |
| From: | "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch> |
Hi everybody
I just had a look through the "Final Assembly" drawing supplement (provided by
CZAW) and did not understand one item:
It seems like as the rear spar bolt is screwed in the rear spar/rear spar attachment
bracket without nut?! The parts list also shows no nuts for the rear spar
bolt? In addition I don't see a cutout in the lower skin (at the wing root)
that would provide access for the installation of the nut.
Could somebody help me out of this confusion? I cannot believe that a bolt can
be installed without counterpart-nut.
Cheers from Switzerland
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92621#92621
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Danny Offill" <doffill(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
I must be slow to understand the builders web site but I can't seem to find
the info that was referenced on the builders site. I get logged in but
where do I go next.
Danny in Texas
601XL tail section
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Race
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:49 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and
make it easy to get there:
www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/
From there you will be ask for your Username and Password.
If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neitzel" <n963wb(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | electric carb heater |
Greetings all,
Someone asked about carb heat for a 912 and someone else mentioned the
resistive unit for a Jabiru. I also just received this heater for my
Jab and ran some preliminary tests to determine current draw and will
also pass along the dimensions. It is cylindrical, 30 mm in diameter
and 30 mm tall, weighing 70 grams. Attachment is with two bolts to the
side of the carb using the included taps. There are two electrical
connections using the body of the cylinder for ground. The two coils
can be operated independently which allows for a high and low setting.
When the unit is cold the resistance of each coil is 8.6 Ohms for a
current draw of 3.5 Amps. As the temperature increases the impedance
rapidly decreases to 4.7 Ohms, however, the current draw dropped to 2.0
Amps. Cold current drain on high results in a rather high figure of 7
amps but tapers off a bit after it heats up. The kit was very complete
with switches, a chunk of wire, fuse holder and all necessary electrical
connectors. I was disappointed with the two SPST switches. I have
already replaced them with a DPDT so as to only take up one of my
switch locations.
The current drain of two units operating on high for the 912 might put a
bit of a strain on the electrical system.
Hope this is useful
Dick Neitzel
Sayner, WI
701 Jab 2200
N963WB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cutout in the Canopy inside flashing |
| From: | "deglass1" <deglass1(at)aol.com> |
Im finally at the point of installing the canopy on the XL. In the photo guide
for the inside flashing, there are alternate ways to cut out over or around the
latch frame. Please advise which way you did it, and how you would do it if
you had it to do over.
The latch frame is thicker than the square tubing, so a cutout seems like it would
leave a step up at that point in the inside flashing. Cutting around the
entire latch frame would make a flatter flashing, but may not look as good.
Also, the inside flashing with its reinforcing L pinch the plexi against the outside
flashing. Does the top flange of the inside flashing need to be trimmed
back to keep the inside flashing's main flange parallel to the outer flashing?
Thanks for any advice you can give -
--------
David Glass
Forest, VA
Zodiac XL - N253DG reserved
On the gear, ready for tail and cables 12/06
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92673#92673
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Young" <armyret(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt |
Martin- My old plans call for one AN5-7A per wing. (See 6-S-3 ) You will
have to cut out a small area in the rear lower wing skin (approximately 2" X
3" just behind part # 6B5-4 in order to get a washer and nut on the bolt. I
used a pair of long nosed pliars to put the washer on the bolt and used a
closed end wrench with a piece of tape on the back side to hold the nut in
the wrench. Had a friend turn the bolt into the nut with a socket wrench
from the outside. Do all this before you install the flaps. I had no
problem. Good luck!
Al Young
N601AY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt
>
> Hi everybody
>
> I just had a look through the "Final Assembly" drawing supplement
> (provided by CZAW) and did not understand one item:
>
> It seems like as the rear spar bolt is screwed in the rear spar/rear spar
> attachment bracket without nut?! The parts list also shows no nuts for the
> rear spar bolt? In addition I don't see a cutout in the lower skin (at the
> wing root) that would provide access for the installation of the nut.
>
> Could somebody help me out of this confusion? I cannot believe that a bolt
> can be installed without counterpart-nut.
>
> Cheers from Switzerland
> Martin
>
> --------
> Martin Pohl
> Zodiac XL QBK
> 8645 Jona, Switzerland
> www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92621#92621
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt |
I cut a hole through the fuselage side skin behind the seat to get
access for that bolt. That way there's no exposed hole on the underside
of the wing. As I recall, I put the bolt through from the inside and put
the nut on the outside where I could inspect it easier.
>
> Martin- My old plans call for one AN5-7A per wing. (See 6-S-3 ) You
> will have to cut out a small area in the rear lower wing skin
> (approximately 2" X 3" just behind part # 6B5-4 in order to get a washer
> and nut on the bolt.
>
>>
>> It seems like as the rear spar bolt is screwed in the rear spar/rear
>> spar attachment bracket without nut?!
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Hi Craig,
I am a builder from plan of the CH640. I have done rudder and tail wing,
Center Web Spar and working on wings. You can find some information on
my
web site ' more than 125 photos. If you want to prepare and construct
I
suggest to visit mine, I will be happy to answer your questions the
better
that I can inside my limited experience.
Note : I exchange info with 3-4 others guys who build from plan.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/
_____
De : owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de C Smith
Envoy=E9 : Friday, February 02, 2007 3:49 PM
=C0 : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
Don=92t mean to be a dummy, but does this site have anything relevant to
the
CH640? I just found out that the 640 is a Zenair Ltd. =93exclusive=94.
You can=92t even get a 640 rudder builder class at the Mexico MO
location, so
I was wondering if they treated the builder support info the same way.
I was at first in love with the 801, but after careful consideration of
our
past (and future) flying mission profiles, I would be better served by
the
640 features.
My intent is to get as much prior knowledge as I can to plan my shop,
tools,
panel, power plant systems in advance.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Craig Smith
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Race
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and
make it easy to get there:
www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/
>From there you will be ask for your Username and Password.
If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Drill Bit Durability |
Dave:
I built both wings and half my fuselage with one drill bit of each size.
When I lost one, I ordered two more and finished the plane. Buy three or
four of each and don't lose them and you will be good to go.
Scott Laughlin
CH601XL
Omaha, Nebraska
www.cooknwithgas.com
Still Polishing
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability
Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea of how
many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly drill bit (#30
and #20)?
Thanks,
Dave
_________________________________________________________________
FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo buy and sell with people
you know
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaybannist(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Cutout in the Canopy inside flashing |
Dvid,
I think this is the latch problem you are talking about. I have attached three
photos to show what I did with it. Hope they are not too large for some of you.
I made two fiberglass covers. I later discovered that I needed to cut off one
corner to clear the slot for emergency release of the canopy. The fiberglass
covers are not attached yet, but you can see how they will clean up the area.
Jay in Dallas
"deglass1" wrote:
>
>Im finally at the point of installing the canopy on the XL. In the photo guide
for the inside flashing, there are alternate ways to cut out over or around
the latch frame. Please advise which way you did it, and how you would do it
if you had it to do over.
>The latch frame is thicker than the square tubing, so a cutout seems like it would
leave a step up at that point in the inside flashing. Cutting around the
entire latch frame would make a flatter flashing, but may not look as good.
>Also, the inside flashing with its reinforcing L pinch the plexi against the outside
flashing. Does the top flange of the inside flashing need to be trimmed
back to keep the inside flashing's main flange parallel to the outer flashing?
>
>Thanks for any advice you can give -
>
>--------
>David Glass
>Forest, VA
>Zodiac XL - N253DG reserved
>On the gear, ready for tail and cables 12/06
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92673#92673
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt |
Martin,On my 6-W-0 dwg dated 12/02, in the lower left hand corner is
note "40x20 CUTOUT FOR ACCESS TO REAR SPAR WING ATTACHMENT BOLT' After
assembly, I covered this cutout with a piece of Aluminum tape. I remove
the tape for inspections. On 6-S-3 there is also a note "ACCESS CUTOUT
IN BOTTOM SKIN 6W8-2, SEE 6-W-0Dwg 6-S-3 does not show the nuts to be
used with the AN5-5A bolts,(on my dwg there is also no nut callout shown
for the spar attach AN5 bolts); but self locking nuts are intended to be
used. I believe that the general construction guidelines maycall out for
the use of AN self locking nuts (and washer use criteria) on AN bolts,
unless otherwise indicated on the drawing to use some other nut/washer
combination.Tony Graziano601XL; 204 hrs-----------Hi everybody I just
had a look through the "Final Assembly" drawing supplement (provided
byCZAW) and did not understand one item: It seems like as the rear spar
bolt is screwed in the rear spar/rear spar attachmentbracket without
nut?! The parts list also shows no nuts for the rear sparbolt? In
addition I don't see a cutout in the lower skin (at the wing root)that
would provide access for the installation of the nut. Could somebody
help me out of this confusion? I cannot believe that a bolt canbe
installed without counterpart-nut. Cheers from SwitzerlandMartin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
Ken,
Before you make your final decision on NOT installing Carb Heat, read the article
on the Flycorvair.com website. (use the link below) whether you install a Rotax,
Jabaru, Corvair or whatever, this article makes some very interesting points.
My flight instructor trained me never to guess. ALLWAYS use carb heat before any
major throttle reduction. Everyone has their opinions. I'd rather be safe than
sorry.
http://flycorvair.com/carbice.html
Dave Thompson
Westminster, Ca
Corvair Engine in parts, Rudder & just starting stab
Archive this
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout in the Canopy inside flashing |
I went for full access to the latch over appearance. Sorry no good pic of
this.
I made a cut out of the inner flashing that allows finger access to open the
canopy should the cabes break and more importantly I can visually check that
the canopy latch is fully locked prior to take off.
I have seen the canopy appear to be down and locked but the latch release
lever is not fully set so it needs another compression to fully engage the
lock.
Also I added a 1/2" tubular cross bar about 8 " up the bow to set the
width of the canopy firmly. It is also useful for compressing the locks.
And with a small nylon rope attached, it prevents the wind from catching the
canopy when open on the ground and possibly straining the hinges.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "deglass1" <deglass1(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:36 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cutout in the Canopy inside flashing
>
> I?Tm finally at the point of installing the canopy on the XL. In the
photo guide for the inside flashing, there are alternate ways to cut out
over or around the latch frame. Please advise which way you did it, and how
you would do it if you had it to do over.
> The latch frame is thicker than the square tubing, so a cutout seems like
it would leave a step up at that point in the inside flashing. Cutting
around the entire latch frame would make a flatter flashing, but may not
look as good.
> Also, the inside flashing with its reinforcing L ?opinch? the plexi
against the outside flashing. Does the top flange of the inside flashing
need to be trimmed back to keep the inside flashing's main flange parallel
to the outer flashing?
>
> Thanks for any advice you can give -
>
> --------
> David Glass
> Forest, VA
> Zodiac XL - N253DG reserved
> On the gear, ready for tail and cables 12/06
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92673#92673
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Geese" <dgeese(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
Craig,
I=92m a 640 builder located in Northeast Indiana. I am hoping to fly
mine
within the next year, so I=92m in the later building stages. My Dad is
building the 601 and the process is quite similar. I=92ve used a
website put
together by 640 builder Jeff Paden of New York to aid in the
assembly/build
process. www.madbbs.com/~jpaden As far as crossing the border, I=92ve
done
it twice. The first was with my wing kit in an enclosed trailer and the
second with my canopy kit. The folks at Zenair prepare you well with
the
appropriate documentation to get you through customs. I would highly
recommend a trip to Zenair to view the factory and if nothing else, talk
to
Mr. Heintz himself. I=92m not sure where you=92re located, but your
welcome to
come see my project. I live on an airport, so if you have something to
fly
come on over. www.tropria.com <http://www.tropria.com/>
Doug Geese
_____
De : owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de C Smith
Envoy=E9 : Friday, February 02, 2007 3:49 PM
=C0 : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
Don=92t mean to be a dummy, but does this site have anything relevant to
the
CH640? I just found out that the 640 is a Zenair Ltd. =93exclusive=94.
You can=92t even get a 640 rudder builder class at the Mexico MO
location, so
I was wondering if they treated the builder support info the same way.
I was at first in love with the 801, but after careful consideration of
our
past (and future) flying mission profiles, I would be better served by
the
640 features.
My intent is to get as much prior knowledge as I can to plan my shop,
tools,
panel, power plant systems in advance.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Craig Smith
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Race
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site
For a quick link to the "Builders Info Site" save the following link and
make it easy to get there:
www.zenithair.com/builder-secure/
>From there you will be ask for your Username and Password.
If you don't have one contact Shirley at Zenith.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt |
Yes. Bolt head inside facing forward, nut facing aft on spar rear
channel. Bolt is in shear. I just "snugged" and quarter turned, then
applied torque stripe/anti-sabotage paint.
Tony Graziano
-------------
Tim Juhl (juhl(at)avci.net)
Using any of the access methods described are you able to get a torque
wrench on
it?
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Final assembly: Rear spar bolt |
| From: | "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch> |
Thank you for all your postings. I am releived now... :D
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92767#92767
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Final Engine Selection |
| From: | "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com> |
I think I have finally solved my engine selection !!!
Reckon a 24 x 10 prop will be ok ???? [Twisted Evil]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92770#92770
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/saito1_188.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hat Stiffener Press + Pic of the day |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
sky_ranger161 wrote:
> After a few failed attempts at making hat stiffeners for the main spar, I decided
to try making a press die for them in much the same way I made my flanging
dies. Here's what I came up with. I used the same timbertech composite material
as I used for the flanging dies, and was able to fabricate the whole set using
a table saw and some 5-minute epoxy from ACE hardware. I rounded all of the
corners to the proper radius, and epoxied the male 45-degree press flange to
the top die. To use them, I put a piece of .025 between the dies and put them
under pressure with the shop press until the bend is formed, then trim the flanges
to the proper size. Out comes perfectly shaped, high-quality,?repeatable
hat stiffeners lookin' like the factory made 'em.
> ?
> Debo Cox
> Nags Head, NC
> XL/Corvair
> Moving slow, but still moving (which is good)
>
>
I started to design the exact same thing last night. Good to see it works. My only
question, do you have any spring back in the angles or contour the exact same
as the part specified in the plans? I was thinking of making one with spring
back built in but it may not be necessary. I'll try this frist because building
in springback is a lot more work and if it doesn't need it that'd be great.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92771#92771
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hat Stiffener Press + Pic of the day |
| From: | "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> |
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Debo,
>
> You are the master. I had someone offer to buy my flanging dies the other day,
which I declined, and I refered him to your pics.
>
> You might wanna take a look at how I solved bending the flaps. The final 163
degree bend was done with the 200lb gravity actuated stomp press [Laughing]
I used the same gravity actuated stomp press for my rudder skin and elevator skin.
Can't beat the price.
--------
CH601XL - Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92773#92773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Drill Bit Durability |
When drilling aluminium I tend to use a high speed.... As fast as possible
and just let the bit drill the hole. I too sharpen my bits on a bench
grinder and if I have time I take out the bit sharpener which is actually
nothing more than a fancy bit guide for sharpening. I've even reformed
heads on broken bits to get a hole drilled.
I never use any pressure on the drill at all. Steel is another matter. As
slow as possible, fair pressure and a good supply of cutting oil.
Certainly you should always have a reasonable supply of #s 40,30 and 20
because the only time you will need another one is when the tool shop is
closed.
If you use a deburring tool it may be a good idea to have an extra one of
those on hand too. Generally I use a 3/8 bit in my hand to de burr....
Just remember to deburr gently or you could end up chamfering your hole.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Laughlin
> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 7:27 PM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability
>
>
>
>
> Dave:
>
> I built both wings and half my fuselage with one drill bit of
> each size.
> When I lost one, I ordered two more and finished the plane.
> Buy three or
> four of each and don't lose them and you will be good to go.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> CH601XL
> Omaha, Nebraska
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> Still Polishing
>
>
> From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability
>
> Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark
> idea of how
> many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly
> drill bit (#30
> and #20)?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo - buy and sell
> with people
> you know
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
Lockwood Aviation http://www.lockwood-aviation.com
<http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/> sells a carb heat device. I think they
are one of the largest Rotax dealers in the U.S. I see it in their catalog,
but their website is the most difficult site I've ever encountered when
searching for parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon" <cscsail(at)gmavt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
I agree --- trying to navigate the Lockwood online catalog takes more
patience than I have. I have their printed catalog, but for a lot of
items it says to go to the online catalog for details and cost. I did
order an engine from them (haven't seen it yet), and had planned on
purchasing engine instruments and other misc. from them, but it was just
to difficult. I've heard good things about the company, but I think they
are missing out on sales because of poor website design.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Tommy Walker
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS?
Lockwood Aviation http://www.lockwood-aviation.com sells a carb heat
device. I think they are one of the largest Rotax dealers in the U.S.
I see it in their catalog, but their website is the most difficult site
I've ever encountered when searching for parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Shankland <tshank(at)core.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Durability |
Dave,
I received one #20 and #30 bit with my rudder kit many years ago. My
drill fell one day and broke off the end of the #30 bit, Thus I went to
Sears Hardware and bought an extra of each, by the way I resharpened and
still use the shortened bit. I still have them and use them. The trick
is to either learn how to sharpen then freehand or buy a sharpener.
Other than breakage or loss a single drill bit will last for the whole
project. You will want to invest in the right angle and long bits to
reach those places where you just can't get the drill in.
Tim Shankland
Dave VanLanen wrote:
> Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea of
> how many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly
> drill bit (#30 and #20)?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Crvsecretary(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Durability |
Hello fellow listers:
Just a comment on resharpening these small drill bits...
I don't believe the typical hobbyist can accurately resharpen drill bits
except with a middle to high end sharpener, and with the capital expense
involved, why bother? Freehand sharpening can only approximate the angles involved
(yes, I agree small drill bits do not have to involve reducing the web and
other intricate angles) and with the best of freehand sharpening, you will only
get one of the cutting edges working at a time. Not a good practice where
the goal is nice, round holes.
For amateurs like me and others who do not have the benefit of being, or
working with machinists with a LOT of gray hair earned with years of trying to
accurately resharpen drill bits, I say use 'em & pitch 'em.
They are cheap enough; when they stop cutting quickly, toss 'em. That being
said, with high cutting speeds and low feeds (light pressure on the drill),
a good quality drill bit cuts LOTS of holes.
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
In a message dated 2/4/2007 11:09:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tshank(at)core.com writes:
Dave,
I received one #20 and #30 bit with my rudder kit many years ago. My drill
fell one day and broke off the end of the #30 bit, Thus I went to Sears
Hardware and bought an extra of each, by the way I resharpened and still use the
shortened bit. I still have them and use them. The trick is to either learn
how to sharpen then freehand or buy a sharpener. Other than breakage or loss a
single drill bit will last for the whole project. You will want to invest in
the right angle and long bits to reach those places where you just can't get
the drill in.
Tim Shankland
Dave VanLanen wrote:
Can anyone who has finished their aircraft give me a ballpark idea of how
many holes I should typically be able to get out of a hi-moly drill bit (#30
and #20)?
Thanks,
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Remove the wings off CH601UL |
| From: | "Canatukker" <waterkant(at)gmail.com> |
He My name is Ron Smit live in chilliwack B.C. Canada,
I recently bought a Zenair Zodiac 601 ul in Edmonton Alberta We are going to pick
her up on the 16th of this month .
My question to this forum is do I have to pay attention to a particular area when
removing the wings, and how do I remove those wings?
thanks for Your reply . regards Ron Smit.
--------
lets go flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92848#92848
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Zed Smith <zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | follow-up on parts search |
Tommy,
Regarding the Lockwood web site: You got that right; I gave up trying to use it.
Lockwood is probably the most knowledgeable 912 dealer in the U.S., but the "parts
search" sucketh.
He produces a good print catalog. Request one.
Zed/701/912/90+%/etc/please archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Durability |
Hi Tracy,
I respect your position on resharpening drill bits, as well as your
analysis of some of the issues involved. On the other hand, I think
there is something to be said for the other approach
too. (Admittedly, I do have lots of grey hair.)
Building an all metal airplane is mostly an exercise in drilling
holes. For me, that means focusing on the hole drilling process is a
good way to improve your building experience. It is also an area
where a little learning goes a long way. (Remember, education is one
of the primary reasons we are supposed to be building these contraptions.)
I decided to learn "Free hand" drill bit resharpening a couple of
years ago -- about the same time I started work on my XL. I found it
relatively easy to turn a dull bit into one that drilled holes better
than before. OK, maybe the angles on the bit didn't end up the same
as they started. Does this really matter when holding a contest
between tool steel and aluminum? Indeed, my reading on the web told
me a drill should have a sharper angle for drilling soft materials
than the one provided on store-bought drills which are designed to
drill steel parts.
My recommendation for anyone new to the drill sharpening process is
this: Start with new bits. When they get dull put them aside and
use a new one. After a while you will have a small collection of
dull bits. You can try to resharpen these yourself. You can also
get someone who knows how to do it to show you. Or, you can just
throw them out. If you try to learn how to do this yourself, the
only possible loss is some time. Perhaps you will renew the bits or
perhaps you won't.
I think there are three "Secrets" to drill bit sharpening. The
first is to have a grinding wheel with a really flat surface and
sharp corners at the edges. The second is to start holding the bit
at the same angle as you do each side of the point. The third is to
"Scrape" the bit upward as you finish the point to get the rake angle
needed to make the drill actually remove metal. The last part (not a
secret at all) is to inspect the point - if it comes out with the
point in the middle of the bit then both sides are the same. If you
try twisting the bit into a piece of wood it should dig in. In this
case you have a nice new bit to make more holes in your airplane.
Of course anyone can say this is too hard to learn or not worth the
effort. Still, if you do you will feel good about learning a new
skill and also find yourself a little better off when it comes to
having the tool you need when you need it.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
>For amateurs like me and others who do not have the benefit of
>being, or working with machinists with a LOT of gray hair earned
>with years of trying to accurately resharpen drill bits, I say use
>'em & pitch 'em.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remove the wings off CH601UL |
Hi Ron,
Congratulations, The UL is similar to the HD. Detachment of the wings
is found at the wing joint covers where the wing bends.
There are screws front center and trailing that secure the wing joint
covers, usually a dozen screws holding the wing joint in place
along the edges. Once removed, the electrical wires and pitot lines
should be marked and separated at this joint. If provisions haven't been
made, cut them after marking and duct tape them secure at the ends of
the wings. You should have a screw at the rear spar that can be removed
to separate each spar. It may have a plate nut or a self locking nut
holding it. The front spar has 4 AN-6 bolts (3/8-inch) that secure the
wings to splice plates each side. After these have been loosened, get a
spare set of hands to hold the outboard end of the wing and push the
bolts out. Then provide support both ends of each wing and slide the
wing straight out from between the splice plates. The angles top and
bottom will guide the wing off, but don't rely on them for supporting
the weight of the wing with the bolts removed.
If you're transporting the wings any distance, by truck internally, make
hangars with carpet that will support the wings at the nose to
evenly carry the structure. If you've got time, make a wing jig to
support the wings on foam the length of the nose. If external trailer,
better to lay them flat on soft foam support large area, 20% of the
wing. Again, foam rented from an upholstery shop might do as they have
slabs of the stuff.
Drain your tanks of fuel, remove the battery and pitot tubes from the
wing if possible and anything else that might be sensitive to roads.
This advice presumes a lot on your mode of transport, but if you have a
lot of ratchet straps, 8 - 10 should get you there.
I have below, several links that suggest methods, but you may need a
longer trailer for the wings. I did this in two trips.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/spliceplates/full/splice-plate-bolts-and-spar.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/viewleftwingjoint.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/TJH/HScentersection/full/wg2rack2.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/trailerwinching2.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/loadedcenter.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/Zenith-on-the-roadh.jpg
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/zenith-to-airport.jpg
Good luck,
Larry McFarland
Canatukker wrote:
>
> He My name is Ron Smit live in chilliwack B.C. Canada,
> I recently bought a Zenair Zodiac 601 ul in Edmonton Alberta We are going to
pick her up on the 16th of this month .
> My question to this forum is do I have to pay attention to a particular area
when removing the wings, and how do I remove those wings?
> thanks for Your reply . regards Ron Smit.
>
> --------
> lets go flying
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92848#92848
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neitzel" <n963wb(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Durability |
I have found one of the easiest and most accurate means of "touching up" a
drill bit is a cut off wheel in my hand held Dremel. The side of the cut
off wheel makes for an ultra smooth surface to work on, and because it is
hand held, I can walk over to my magnifier light (have gray hair too) and
steady my hands on my chest. I have pretty good results with this method.
I have a couple of long drills, which I made using a quarter inch steel rod
that I drilled holes in the end then brazed a smaller bit in the end. I
don't want to go through the hassle of reattaching drills to these
extensions so a brief touch on the cut off wheel brings them back to life.
Granted using the side of the fragile cut off wheels might not be how they
were intended to be used but so far I have not broken a single wheel
sharpening a bit.
Dick Neitzel
Sayner, WI
701 Jab 2200
N963WB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Final Engine Selection |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
That oughta be great on gas.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92895#92895
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Remove the wings off CH601UL |
| From: | "Canatukker" <waterkant(at)gmail.com> |
Larry thanks verry much for the info I will have a long trailer as my new bird
is an tail dragger I.m going to need 17 ft I think. if anyone has the exact messurement
from main to tail wheel I would like to hear it .thanks again ,I can
hardly wait to get her home From a rainy Chilliwack B.C. Ron smit
p.s. here an link to some pic. http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/smitfire/?action=view¤t=1170640161.pbw
--------
lets go flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92896#92896
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Updates on Zenith builders web site |
| From: | "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Craig,
I built and fly a CH640 (mine is the red/white one on the Zenair update page).
They used to have a rudder build class at AMD in Eastman, GA, but I don't know
if that is still available. Support for the 640 comes mainly from Zenair directly,
or AMD. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me directly at stephen.adams(at)hcahealthcare.com.
Steve Adams
N621J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92938#92938
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Tezyk" <bob(at)eaglesnestestates.org> |
| Subject: | Drill Bit Durability |
One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread has been the Drill
Doctor. The Drill Doctor will sharpen a drill bit to a perfect point in
under a minute. You will be surprised what a difference it makes to
always have a sharp bit. In addition to getting better holes, there is
a time savings in drilling every hole with a sharp bit. It is designed
to make a perfect point and removes a minimum of metal doing it. I have
had one for years and have all but stopped buying drill bits. I drill a
lot of steel, so drill wear is a constant issue for me.
They make several different versions starting at under $100. I got the
cheap one but in retrospect, I should have opted for the lowest price
one that has a replacable diamond wheel. I can tell that I am getting
near the point of replacing it due to the wheel wearing out.
Regards,
Bob Tezyk
Midlothian, TX
601XL / 3300 S/N 6-6777
Rudder Complete, Took delivery of the QB kit.
bob(at)eaglesnestestates.org
http://neo.datamatrix.com/eaglesnestestates/index.php?option=com_rsgall
ery2&Itemid=28&catid=23
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John and Kim Lumkes" <lumkes(at)msoe.edu> |
| Subject: | FW: Rotax 912UL for sale |
Just passing this on in case someone is looking for a core or parts or
project...
Contact Dave at davedent(at)comcast.net for more information and pictures if
interested. I think that he is asking $5K or best offer. I am only
forwarding this on and have no more information than what is below.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
...the engine has just under 100 hrs on it. It was used only as a test cell
engine. In the cell it was used to see if we could get 80hp at 80,000 ft. We
did it with three turbos and electronic ignition and fuel injection. We saw
65hp at 90,000. After the test it was left in the cell for a good six months
and never touched again till we put it in storage in a transportainer. Now
it is in my hangar. It is as we took it out of the cell, without the exhaust
and intake system installed. If anyone wants it they can have the removed
systems. Along with the engine. It will come with a very expensive oil pump
and a bunch of other hardware.
The engine would make a very good short block.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
If you have a carb you can get carb ice. You may have to be a member but here is
an excellent article on the subject with a great chart showing how ice even
if the ambient temp is over 100.
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/members/student_pilot/presolo/articles/58.cfm
[quote="arno7452(at)bellsouth.net"]Dear Listers,
I am installing 912 ULS on a CH 701. Due to its cost and perhaps debatable utility,
I have been advised to leave it off. I sure would like to hear some
comments from the list as to whether this is a good approach.
I am taking lessons in an Evektor Sportstar with 912S engine. So far, we have
never used the carb heat. I am flying in Goldsboro, NC. That is about 60
miles east of Raleigh. As I recall flying the Continental O-200, we used carb
heat anytime under 2K rpm.
The POH on the Sportstar only requires carb heat if you suspect icing. i.e.
engine starting to lose power and run rough.
Many thanks,
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
Building CH701 - hoping to fly it in May, 07
> [b]
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93013#93013
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Durability |
I'm glad someone brought up the "Drill Doctor". I've thought about
getting one for years and never did. I haven't always had the best of
luck with what seems like it may be some kind of gimmick devise. I don't
know about other people, but I have a lot more drill bits than the ones
I use on aluminum. Larger bits are a little more expensive to throw away
when they get dull.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Tezyk
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Drill Bit Durability
One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread has been the Drill
Doctor. The Drill Doctor will sharpen a drill bit to a perfect point in
under a minute. You will be surprised what a difference it makes to
always have a sharp bit. In addition to getting better holes, there is
a time savings in drilling every hole with a sharp bit. It is designed
to make a perfect point and removes a minimum of metal doing it. I have
had one for years and have all but stopped buying drill bits. I drill a
lot of steel, so drill wear is a constant issue for me.
They make several different versions starting at under $100. I got
the cheap one but in retrospect, I should have opted for the lowest
price one that has a replacable diamond wheel. I can tell that I am
getting near the point of replacing it due to the wheel wearing out.
Regards,
Bob Tezyk
Midlothian, TX
601XL / 3300 S/N 6-6777
Rudder Complete, Took delivery of the QB kit.
bob(at)eaglesnestestates.org
http://neo.datamatrix.com/eaglesnestestates/index.php?option=com_rsgall
ery2&Itemid=28&catid=23
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat on Rotax 912 ULS? |
Looks like there are at least three approaches to carb heat for the 912S.
Heated air, carb heat air box system.
Hot coolant flow, see in Lockwood catalogue.
Electric heat, again in Lockwood catalogue.
Any experience or comments please.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
I have had the Drill Doctor XP2 for about 2 years. I have not had any
problems with it at all.
It does have a replaceable grinding wheel, but can hardly see any wear on
the wheel and have done a lot of sharpening of #30 and #40 drills. It
really does a great job, nicely centered grind on the flutes every time. I
also do a side cut on the flutes, it does that as a second step in the
sharpening process. Makes the drills go thru aluminum just like it was not
even there. I do use a high speed small air motor to drive the drills.
It comes with a "training" DVD that takes you through the entire process and
even shows you how to service your tool.
They have them at Home Depot and sometimes they have a $20.00 rebate slip
right along with them. Got mine that way!
Highly recommended!
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin |
I know this has come up for some of the other ZAC planes, but when I
took the bottom fuselage skin for my 801 out of the box I discovered
that it is .016. I just assumed it would be .025. It seems like it
should be heavier given the kind of use the plane was designed for. Any
thoughts, anyone?
Dave in Salem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!! |
Listers,
Many thanks for all the good comments regarding Carb Heat. I have
discussed the issue with Lockwood and Zenith in Mexico. Here is summary
of discussion with Zenith: The cowling for the CH701 maintains a
relatively warm environment. If the Rotax airbox is not installed, NO
carb heat is required. So, my CH701 will be using the new cowling and
there will be no airbox. So, I will not install carb heat.
These comments are based on discussion with Sebastian Heintz at Zenith
today 2/6/2007. Sebastian indicates there are hundreds of Rotax 912s
that do not have carb heat. They are doing nicely. He also estimates
about 3 hp is lost by not using the airbox to draw in cold air.
To the best of my knowledge, I received no comments from Zenith owners
flying behind the 912 without carb heat.
The carb heat upgrade can be retrofitted at a later date. It is a
collar that fits on the carb and circulates cooling fluid. Fairly
simple install I'm told.
Again, many thanks for your interest and comments.
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
CH701 QB in process
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don't follow my lead |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Only needed to make one test strip the directions on CH601.org work great.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93119#93119
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/le_skin_correct_003_453.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bing carb on Jab3300 |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
I found this on the Yahoo Jab Engine site any one had similar problems as the fuel
pump that was sent with my XL kit was the 40105
Chris..
frm the site.....
first engine start went well except that i had fuel leaks from the bing
carb. i have a facet 40105 electric fuel pump that really overpowered
the needle valve controlled by the floats. this is the pump i understand
is used by many jab owners. after a short engine run without the elec.
pump i shut the engine down as the manual pump was also causing fuel to
leak. leaks were coming out the vent for the fuel bowl.
i spoke to bing and was told that these needle assemblies come with
several spring stiffnesses. i had the weakest spring assembly. bing is
sending me the medium stiffness spring. bing said the stiffest spring is
too stiff and not offered any more. bing said a pulolator pressure
regulator is commonly installed in the fuel line. bing also said they
get a lot of calls for the same problem from a lot of 40105 owners.
maybe i should be looking at a facet pump of around 2-2.5 lbs. i believe
they are made and would be more desireable because these lower pressured
pumps have no check valves. thus no possible valve to stick.
does anyone have anything to add to this or offer any fuel pressure
info?
and also, jim of pacific jabiru was helpful and patient with my phone
calls as all of this was going on during the first start attempt.
[Question] [Question]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93139#93139
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor(at)triton.net> |
| Subject: | 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin |
Dave:
The .016 works fine. Just be careful about dropping tools on it. I think
that it is a strength/weight issue. In this type of construction the skin
carries much of the loads. The belly stresses are such that some weight can
be saved with the .016.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP
80 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Austin" <daveaustin2(at)can.rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!! |
Ken,
I've flown my 601 912 for 14 years and never had any icing indication.
No carb heat. This is a statement of fact, not a recommendation. I'm
in Toronto Canada.
Tailwinds.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Arnold
To: Zenith List
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:20 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!!
Listers,
Many thanks for all the good comments regarding Carb Heat. I have
discussed the issue with Lockwood and Zenith in Mexico. Here is summary
of discussion with Zenith: The cowling for the CH701 maintains a
relatively warm environment. If the Rotax airbox is not installed, NO
carb heat is required. So, my CH701 will be using the new cowling and
there will be no airbox. So, I will not install carb heat.
These comments are based on discussion with Sebastian Heintz at Zenith
today 2/6/2007. Sebastian indicates there are hundreds of Rotax 912s
that do not have carb heat. They are doing nicely. He also estimates
about 3 hp is lost by not using the airbox to draw in cold air.
To the best of my knowledge, I received no comments from Zenith owners
flying behind the 912 without carb heat.
The carb heat upgrade can be retrofitted at a later date. It is a
collar that fits on the carb and circulates cooling fluid. Fairly
simple install I'm told.
Again, many thanks for your interest and comments.
Ken Arnold
Pikeville, NC
CH701 QB in process
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bing carb on Jab3300 |
The Facet 40105 has been working fine on my XL/Jab3300 for over 200 hours.
The Bing
also has given me no problems and has been working smoothly up to 12,500 ft.
(max I
have cruised at to date)
For info, below are excerpts from my POH on the fuel system in my XL.
Tony Graziano
601XL; N493TG, 204 hrs
--------------------------------------------
B. FUEL SYSTEM
The engine is fitted with an altitude adjusting Bing Carburetor. The
throttle is controlled via a cable to the carburetor. The carburetor has a
choke for cold starting and is controlled via a cable to the choke. Fuel is
screened by a small finger strainers in the fuel tanks, a gascolator located
on the aircraft C/L below the cockpit before the rudder peddles and just
prior to the electric fuel pump, and filtered between the firewall and the
mechanical fuel pump. There is no priming system. Fuel travels from the
tanks to a fuel selector, to the gascolator, through a solid state
check -valved free flow electronic fuel pump, through a fuel flow sensor,
through the firewall, through a fuel filter, to the engine mechanical pump
and then to the carburetor where it is metered to the engine intake
manifolds. The Bing Carburetor has incorporated the Fuel Economy
Modification IAW Jabiru JSL002-1
3. FUEL SYSTEM
A. FUEL TANKS
B. FUEL SELECTOR
C. GASCOLATOR
D. FUEL PUMPS
E. APPROXIMATE FUEL BURN RATES at CRUISE
F. FUEL TANK DIPSTICK READINGS
A. FUEL TANKS
N493TG has four 12-gallon fuel tanks, two in each wing. The fuel
filler is on the outer portion of the tanks and the wing dihedral forces
fuel to the inner portion of the tank. Each tank has a VDO 10 - 180-ohm fuel
gauge float type sender installed in the inboard cell of the tanks. Each
tank also has a standard fuel drain on the aft rear section of the tank for
taking fuel samples and fuel draining. Each tank contains approximately 1/4
gallon of unusable fuel based on the position of the fuel pickups. The fuel
caps latch should face aft when installed to prevent airflow from unlatching
the cap in-flight. The O-rings of the latches should be lubricated
annually.
WARNING
Static electricity can cause a fire when fueling or de-fueling if proper
grounding procedures are not used.
B. FUEL SELECTOR
The fuel flows from each fuel tank to an ANDAIR P/N FS20F8-F, five-way
fuel selector on the center console. The selector can select either RIGHT
tank, LEFT tank, RIGHT AUX tank, LEFT AUX tank or OFF. When selecting a
fuel tank, ensure the selector is in the detent and a positive click is
felt.
WARNING
Avoid switching fuel tanks at low altitude or just prior to takeoff in the
event of a selector malfunction.
C. GASCOLATOR
After the fuel selector the fuel flows to the gascolater. The
gascolator has a fine screen for fuel filtering and a bowl to allow water to
settle. There is a quick drain on the bottom of the gascolator to allow
taking fuel samples during preflight. The gascolator is covered externally
by an aerodynamic shaped FOD guard to protect the gascolator from any
foreign objects that may be tossed up by the nose wheel or prop. This guard
permits access to fuel sampling the gascolator during preflight and can be
removed to allow removal of the gascolator bowl and screen filter during
inspections.
WARNING
Ensure the gascolator drain is fully closed after taking a fuel sample.
Failure to properly close the fuel drain can cause leakage causing fuel
starvation.
D. FUEL PUMPS
A FACET P/N 40105, solid state, checked valved, electronic fuel
pump is installed on the centerline of the cockpit floor just forward of the
gascolator. Another mechanical fuel pump is installed on the engine. Prior
to starting, the electronic fuel pump should be turned on for about 10
seconds and then turned off. The electronic fuel pump should be used for
take off and landing and be OFF during cruise.
--------
> Subject: Zenith-List: Bing carb on Jab3300
> From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
>
>
> I found this on the Yahoo Jab Engine site any one had similar problems as
> the fuel
> pump that was sent with my XL kit was the 40105
> Chris..
>
> frm the site.....
>
> first engine start went well except that i had fuel leaks from the bing
> carb. i have a facet 40105 electric fuel pump that really overpowered
> the needle valve controlled by the floats. this is the pump i understand
> is used by many jab owners. after a short engine run without the elec.
> pump i shut the engine down as the manual pump was also causing fuel to
> leak. leaks were coming out the vent for the fuel bowl.
> i spoke to bing and was told that these needle assemblies come with
> several spring stiffnesses. i had the weakest spring assembly. bing is
> sending me the medium stiffness spring. bing said the stiffest spring is
> too stiff and not offered any more. bing said a pulolator pressure
> regulator is commonly installed in the fuel line. bing also said they
> get a lot of calls for the same problem from a lot of 40105 owners.
> maybe i should be looking at a facet pump of around 2-2.5 lbs. i believe
> they are made and would be more desireable because these lower pressured
> pumps have no check valves. thus no possible valve to stick.
> does anyone have anything to add to this or offer any fuel pressure
> info?
> and also, jim of pacific jabiru was helpful and patient with my phone
> calls as all of this was going on during the first start attempt.
>
>
> [Question] [Question]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93139#93139
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage Skin |
| From: | "Maynard, Brad" <bk-maynard(at)ti.com> |
All, I wrote Zenith on this very subject. See the answer Attached
below.
Regards, Brad
> Zenith, I bought my kit in 2000. I am assembling the
> 'Rear Fuselage Lower skin -- 8F2-3A' which is 0.016 in thickness.
> This seems extremely thin for the purpose.
> Has there been an upgrade to thicker material on the latest revisions?
>
> I am concerned that the thin skin with few supports will oilcan. Any
> problems with this?
>
> If so, can I replace with .025 --or-- add 'L's to arrest the oil
> canning?
ANSWER FROM ZENITH:
Ref. 8F2-3A there is no change to the part, 6061-T6 material thickness
t=.016"
There would be no problem replacing the skin with t=.025"
If you are still concerned about oil canning than you could also add L
angles like on the side skins.
Nick Heintz
Zenith Aircraft Company
email: support(at)zenithair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <joe(at)kfiz.com> |
Here is a press release I received that might be of interest. Is anyone
putting a Balistic Rcovery Chute on their 601's?
AMD INSTALLS FIRST BRS PARACHUTE IN ZODIAC 601XL
Eastman Georgia
February 01, 2007:
Aircraft Manufacturing & Development Co. (AMD) is pleased to announce the
first BRS (Ballistic Recovery Systems) parachute installation in a Zodiac
601XL - SLSA. The aircraft was certified on January 30th 2007 at the
production facilities in Eastman, Georgia.
"Flying the Zodiac is super fun. Its excellent maneuverability and
visibility are great features. Pilots and passengers are always looking at
increasing safety features and the BRS parachute provides that added
security." stated John Degonia, AMD's sales manager.
The Zodiac 601XL production Light-Sport Aircraft is based on the Zodiac CH
601 series design by aeronautical engineer Chris Heintz. The all-metal
Zodiac has been popular with kit aircraft enthusiasts since 1984 (with more
that 1,000 Zodiac aircraft flying worldwide), and since 2005 as an S-LSA
(factory produced Light-Sport Aircraft) manufactured in Eastman, Georgia by
AMD.
With the addition of the BRS parachute option, the Zodiac 601XL boasts more
available safety features than any other Light Sport Aircraft available on
the market today, including: AMSAFE SRS airbag seatbelts, lightning
protection (available on the IFR certified Zodiac XLi model), Tetra foam
seat cushions (absorbs "g" loads on a hard landing), super tough nose and
main gear system, classic all-metal construction, FAR33 certified aircraft
engine (Continental 0-200), Sensenich propeller and more.
For more information:
Aircraft Manufacturing & Development Co. (AMD): www.newplane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage Skin |
Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage SkinBrad,
So, what did you do?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Maynard, Brad
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage
Skin
All, I wrote Zenith on this very subject. See the answer
Attached below.
Regards, Brad
> Zenith, I bought my kit in 2000. I am assembling the
> 'Rear Fuselage Lower skin -- 8F2-3A' which is 0.016 in thickness.
> This seems extremely thin for the purpose.
> Has there been an upgrade to thicker material on the latest
revisions?
>
> I am concerned that the thin skin with few supports will oilcan. Any
> problems with this?
>
> If so, can I replace with .025 --or-- add 'L's to arrest the oil
> canning?
ANSWER FROM ZENITH:
Ref. 8F2-3A there is no change to the part, 6061-T6 material thickness
t=.016"
There would be no problem replacing the skin with t=.025"
If you are still concerned about oil canning than you could also add L
angles like on the side skins.
Nick Heintz
Zenith Aircraft Company
email: support(at)zenithair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Vechinski <brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | Sheet metal brake |
Is anyone familiar with the "Central Machinery" brand of sheet metal brake sold
by Harbor Freight, part number 46508-1VGA? It is a 40" brake that looks solid
enough for aluminum sheet metal (advertises up to 16 gauge steel), and is only
$100.
I'm interested because I just started to scratch build, and I don't have a brake
yet. I will be building my own 8 ft brake when I need it, but this seems like
it would be very nice to have in the shop; handy, light, and maneuverable.
(and cheap)
I hope someone out there has at least tried it. I'm interested if it puts a radius
on the bend, and if not, if it's possible to modify it to put a radius on
it.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
>Is anyone putting a Balistic Rcovery Chute on their 601's?
Scott sure is:
www.cooknwithgas.com/BRS.html
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Sheet metal brake |
The 30 inch brake from HF has worked well. I replaced the top steel piece
with a piece of MDF with an 1/8th inch radius on it and an angle of about
60-70 degrees to allow for spring-back on 90 degree bends.
www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41311
I also bought a conventional box brake from Grizzly. I've tried a number of
tricks but haven't been able to make it put a nice 1/8 inch radius on my
bends. Some have recommended wrapping the tip of the upper blocks in a
couple layers of .016 but the radius that yielded was still too tight. Next
I'll try clamping a 1/4 inch rod along the edge as I bend.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Administrator <admin(at)arachnidrobotics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal brake |
No info on that particular brake, but ANY brake you buy will need to have a
radius machined into it, or used with a 'bend wrapper'. The bend wrapper (or
whatever else you'd like to call it) is nothing more than a strip of .040 aluminum
bent on the brake, and left there. Just tape it to the top die/punch and
go on to bend your parts. The .040 stip essentially increases the bend radius
of the original punch. Depending on the existing radius, and the effectiveness
of your brake, you may have to use several strips to achieve the correct
radius.
This sounds like a half-@$$ed method, but it's the same method used in multi-millin
dollar production shops to achieve a non-standard radius. just use double
sided tape to hold the strip tot he punch.
If you were careful, you could probably achieve a satisfactory radius on the
stock brake parts using a belt sander. Just be ready to spend another $100
if you're not careful.
Is anyone familiar with the "Central Machinery" brand of sheet metal brake sold
by Harbor Freight, part number 46508-1VGA? It is a 40" brake that looks solid
enough for aluminum sheet metal (advertises up to 16 gauge steel), and is only
$100.
I'm interested because I just started to scratch build, and I don't have a brake
yet. I will be building my own 8 ft brake when I need it, but this seems like
it would be very nice to have in the shop; handy, light, and maneuverable.
(and cheap)
I hope someone out there has at least tried it. I'm interested if it puts a radius
on the bend, and if not, if it's possible to modify it to put a radius on
it.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Administrator <admin(at)arachnidrobotics.com> |
| Subject: | Sheet metal brake |
Remember, you're looking for a .125" radius on the brake. Two layers of .016"
material is still only slightly larger than a .032" radius. The thin .016
conforms too tightly to the original brake radius. You'll find that a couple
of strips of .040 will usually be just right. If nothing else, use three stips
(.040+.040+.040= 1/8" radius).
Hope that helps...
The 30 inch brake from HF has worked well. I replaced the top steel piece
with a piece of MDF with an 1/8th inch radius on it and an angle of about
60-70 degrees to allow for spring-back on 90 degree bends.
www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41311
I also bought a conventional box brake from Grizzly. I've tried a number of
tricks but haven't been able to make it put a nice 1/8 inch radius on my
bends. Some have recommended wrapping the tip of the upper blocks in a
couple layers of .016 but the radius that yielded was still too tight. Next
I'll try clamping a 1/4 inch rod along the edge as I bend.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal brake |
Hi Ryan,
I haven't seen that particular model brake from Harbor Freight, but I
bought one of the smaller ones they sell. The price is quite low,
and the picture in the downloaded assembly manual makes it look
similar to the smaller ones.
It says it is limited to 90 degree bends. On the smaller one, I was
able to grind the stops so it would go farther and allow you to make
an actual 90 degree bend after the snap back. The hold-down bar
seems to be designed for no radius - just like the smaller model.
I started with one of the small ones (maybe 18") and played around
with it for a while. I wound up buying a 24" one from Grizzly which
required extensive modifications to work at all. However, the
Grizzly tool was much heavier and almost able to clamp an 18 inch
piece of aluminum well enough to actually make a good bend.
I tried a couple of different ways to get the 1/8" radius required
for most parts on our planes. I tried gluing a 1/4" round rod to a
flat piece of metal and putting it under the supplied hold down
bar. It didn't last long. The final winner was a piece of 1/4"
aluminum cut from an extrusion which already had the rounded edge
needed when it came from the store. This has worked well.
I don't think you will find the 4 foot brake from Harbor freight to
be very useful. On the other hand, the smaller ones which cost a lot
less (around $30) would make a great first brake for you to fool
around with and learn the ropes. After making a few test parts with
the Harbor Freight brake and learning how to form the 1/8" radius you
need you will be in a much better position to build your 8 or 12 foot
brake. You might also decide that the larger one is not worth the
trouble and use a local shop to do the long bends on proper hydraulic machines.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 11:36 AM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>Is anyone familiar with the "Central Machinery" brand of sheet metal
>brake sold by Harbor Freight, part number 46508-1VGA? It is a 40"
>brake that looks solid enough for aluminum sheet metal (advertises
>up to 16 gauge steel), and is only $100.
>
>I'm interested because I just started to scratch build, and I don't
>have a brake yet. I will be building my own 8 ft brake when I need
>it, but this seems like it would be very nice to have in the shop;
>handy, light, and maneuverable. (and cheap)
>
>I hope someone out there has at least tried it. I'm interested if
>it puts a radius on the bend, and if not, if it's possible to modify
>it to put a radius on it.
>
>Ryan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <paulrod36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Chute |
Yes; count me in. I'm not ready yet, pplanning on being further down t
he road beofre starting on it. Got their drawings for the installation
, and was pretty impressed. The only thing I didn't care for was the e
sthetics of having the straps show, so I am planning to do a false sid
e skin to cover them, riveted on the bottom and held at the top and si
des with something like silicone caulking, that will tear off easily.
Also to cover the wretched contours where I screwed up. Not that I re
ally expect CH's design to come apart, more on the order of "just beca
use I can". =0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A601XL/Corvair=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A Fr
om: Craig Payne =0A To: zenith-list
(at)matronics.com =0A Sent: Tuesday
, February 06, 2007 1:51 PM=0A Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Balistic
ne" >=0A
=0A >Is anyone putting a Balistic Rcovery Chute on their 601's?=0A
=0A Scott sure is:=0A=0A www.cooknwithgas.com/BRS.html=0A=0A -- Craig=0A=0A
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal brake |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Ryan,
You might want to take a look here for some good ideas:
My experience with the wrapping metal around the nose of the leaf brakes is, the
nose piece needs to be adjustable fore and aft. If there is no adjustment it
make it real hard to get bends to and over 90 degrees.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93340#93340
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal brake |
Ryan,
I have a similar Harbor Freight brake:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91012
This has come in very handy several times. I
placed a .040 cover over the upper clamp, and have no
radius issues. The math performed earlier is good for
math class, but in reality, the .040 is not going to
exactly follow the edge on the upper clamp unless you
beat it that way with a hammer. You obviously don't
plan to bend the spar with this brake. -For just
about anything else, it works great.
BTW, the brake I use at the CNC machine shop for
aviation STC'd equipment uses the same .040 sheet for
radius. It works...
VR/
Brandon Tucker
601 HDS / TD / Corvair
61 hours
Cheap talk?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal brake |
Ryan-
The Harbor Freight brakes are well worth the money, but to do any
serious work, you need something larger than 40". I personally have an 18"
for taking care of the little stuff. For bigger work, (Especially if you
intend to scratchbuild) check out the "Home Depot" brake in the archives or
on 601.org.
Of course, there are those of us that are still waiting for the plans
for a really neat 48" brake promised to us years ago by Homebuilder Helper.
Forgot all about that!
Oh Zodie..........
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuselage
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Vechinski" <brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 2:36 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet metal brake
>
>
> Is anyone familiar with the "Central Machinery" brand of sheet metal brake
> sold by Harbor Freight, part number 46508-1VGA? It is a 40" brake that
> looks solid enough for aluminum sheet metal (advertises up to 16 gauge
> steel), and is only $100.
>
> I'm interested because I just started to scratch build, and I don't have a
> brake yet. I will be building my own 8 ft brake when I need it, but this
> seems like it would be very nice to have in the shop; handy, light, and
> maneuverable. (and cheap)
>
> I hope someone out there has at least tried it. I'm interested if it puts
> a radius on the bend, and if not, if it's possible to modify it to put a
> radius on it.
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Klassen" <Haroldklassen(at)gninc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal brake |
Could you remove this e-mail address from your list please? This is my
fourth request. Thank You.
----- Original Message -----
From: Administrator
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet metal brake
No info on that particular brake, but ANY brake you buy will need
to have a radius machined into it, or used with a 'bend wrapper'. The
bend wrapper (or whatever else you'd like to call it) is nothing more
than a strip of .040 aluminum bent on the brake, and left there. Just
tape it to the top die/punch and go on to bend your parts. The .040
stip essentially increases the bend radius of the original punch.
Depending on the existing radius, and the effectiveness of your brake,
you may have to use several strips to achieve the correct radius.
This sounds like a half-@$$ed method, but it's the same method
used in multi-millin dollar production shops to achieve a non-standard
radius. just use double sided tape to hold the strip tot he punch.
If you were careful, you could probably achieve a satisfactory
radius on the stock brake parts using a belt sander. Just be ready to
spend another $100 if you're not careful.
Ryan Vechinski wrote:
Is anyone familiar with the "Central Machinery" brand of sheet metal
brake sold by Harbor Freight, part number 46508-1VGA? It is a 40" brake
that looks solid enough for aluminum sheet metal (advertises up to 16
gauge steel), and is only $100.
I'm interested because I just started to scratch build, and I don't
have a brake yet. I will be building my own 8 ft brake when I need it,
but this seems like it would be very nice to have in the shop; handy,
light, and maneuverable. (and cheap)
I hope someone out there has at least tried it. I'm interested if it
puts a radius on the bend, and if not, if it's possible to modify it to
put a radius on
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Chute |
in germany it is cumpolsery to have a rescue system CZAW uses the BRS soft pack
on the 601 xl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93401#93401
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0161_150.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Balistic Chute |
I'm planning to put one in mine. I think I've heard all arguments in favor and
against, my conclusion is still to go for it.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Balistic Chute
>Is anyone putting a Balistic Rcovery Chute on their 601's?
Scott sure is:
www.cooknwithgas.com/BRS.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Harbor Freight 40" Brake |
| From: | george.mueller(at)aurora.org |
Regarding the 40" Harbor Freight brake, I have used that for fabricating
parts for my 701 project for the past couple of years and it works great.
To get a 1/8" radius I put a sheet of .016 in the brake, bent it over the
edge and left it there. This will give you the 1/8" radius. This brake
gives you the most utility for the money invested of any brake I have seen
around.
On another subject, I am planning to install an oil thermostat on my
Rotax 912ul with the Skyshops firewall forward kit. Has anyone else done
this, and if so, where did you end up putting the thermostat?
George in Milwaukee
701 installing engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal brake |
| From: | "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> |
Bill - The link's been up for the "Zodie Rocket" brake for a while now.
http://www.ch601.org/tools/brake_plans.htm
I personally am building a large version of Dave Clay's brake right now (my take
on the home depot brake worked great on .020 and .025, but slipped when trying
to bend .032 spar doublers). I'll be adding some lifting cams made from the
same recycled content outdoor lumber seen elsewhere (also built flanging dies
from this stuff - works great) and I'll be adding a center tensioning bar as
shown on Mark's brake. I hope to finish it this weekend and will post a pic if
I can get r done.
Enjoy!
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93425#93425
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!! |
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
Though I'm not planing on using a Rotax engine what makes them immune to carb ice?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93431#93431
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad DeMeo <demeo(at)sonic.net> |
I am looking for canopy latch ideas that include a lock. I would
appreciate any plans or links from this always reliable list serv.
Thanks.
Bradford J. DeMeo
601 xl
80% done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert(at)telkomsa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!! |
Both carb float bowls are cleverly placed in the hot airstream behind each
bank of cyl's.
Dunno about immune .....
Dirk
The 2 prick 701.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 5:49 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!!
>
> Though I'm not planing on using a Rotax engine what makes them immune to
> carb ice?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93431#93431
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john H" <professor71(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
Hi List
Got the winter blues? Project going slower than you would like? Well keep up
the work even if it is just a little everyday. It is all worth it. See
attachments
John
601HD 912ul 236hrs and still loving it
_________________________________________________________________
Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more on your
Live.com page.
http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Butterfield" <ron.butterfield(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List: |
On 2/7/07, Brad DeMeo wrote:
>
> I am looking for canopy latch ideas that include a lock.
I don't know how well this would adapt to a Zenith, but...
A friend of mine with a Cozy had his canopy latch only exposed to the
inside, then made an access door that had a key lock on it. You would
unlock the access door, reach in, and unlatch the canopy.
--
Regards,
RonB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Mikesell" <skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax 583 engine package |
Rotax 583 90hp engine, both carbs, cdi unit (about 65 hrs tsn), 0 time
new items include GPL starter, C box, tuned exhaust, Grand Rapids EIS
with fuel flow and coolant pressure options. . Asking $ 6000 for all.
Removed Rans S12 new owner wanted 912, over $8000 invested.
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
209-224-4485
skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | locking canopy latch |
Zenith now sells one. Take a look at the photos at the end of this section
of the photo assembly guides on pages 10 and 11:
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-c-3d.pdf
Zenith will sell you the handle and all the misc. pieces for about $48. But
you have to order each piece separately. I have the whole kit if you want
part numbers and/or more detailed photos.
If you just want the lever it can be ordered from McMasters-Carr.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Austin" <daveaustin2(at)can.rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!! |
When used on the 601 and 701 the carbs draw air from inside the cowl close
to the firewall. Heat in the cowl effectively gives you continuous carb
heat. So yes, power is reduced by some amount.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Decision on Carb Heat for Rotax 912 ULS!!!!!!
>
> Though I'm not planing on using a Rotax engine what makes them immune to
> carb ice?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93431#93431
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. |
I have been fighting with the flap actuator motor on my XL and come
up with a strange set of design conflicts. The deflection called for
on sheet 6-S-3 calls for 30 degrees maximum deflection, but the
design shown on 6-B-19 can only produce about 20 degrees of deflection.
I spoke to Caleb at ZAC today and he promised to look into this issue
and get back to me. I also wanted to ask list members if anyone has
run into this problem already. What flap deflection have builders
who finished their XLs get? A related question (according to Caleb)
is whether the elevator trim can neutralize the pitch changes with full flaps.
I would appreciate any information related to XL flap deflection.
Thanks,
Paul
XL fuselage
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Samm Munn" <heliav8r(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: locking canopy latch |
The Covermaster T-Handle locks (G400 and/or G400-L at
http://www.pickupspecialties.com/Camper_shell_parts.htm are what I'm
considering using.
Samm Munn
Zenith 601XL (plans) , Corvair (plans)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad DeMeo" <demeo(at)sonic.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List:
>
> I am looking for canopy latch ideas that include a lock. I would
> appreciate any plans or links from this always reliable list serv.
> Thanks.
>
> Bradford J. DeMeo
> 601 xl
> 80% done
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. |
Do you have the elevator trim tab that spans half or all of the elevator
side? Michael Heintz told me that they went to the full width trim tab to
meet a SLSA requirement of being to able trim with full flaps.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. |
Paul--
I fought the same issue when I built my flaps. I could not get the 30
degrees. I ended up with 26 degrees. Based on previous comments on trim
issues, I enlarged my elevator trim tab to full span. I can trim out flaps
up to about 18-20 degrees. With full flap deflection I need to hold back
stick
George May
zodiac 912s 44 hours
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Zenith-List: XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection.
>Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:18:08 -0800
>
>
>
>I have been fighting with the flap actuator motor on my XL and come up with
>a strange set of design conflicts. The deflection called for on sheet
>6-S-3 calls for 30 degrees maximum deflection, but the design shown on
>6-B-19 can only produce about 20 degrees of deflection.
>
>I spoke to Caleb at ZAC today and he promised to look into this issue and
>get back to me. I also wanted to ask list members if anyone has run into
>this problem already. What flap deflection have builders who finished
>their XLs get? A related question (according to Caleb) is whether the
>elevator trim can neutralize the pitch changes with full flaps.
>
>I would appreciate any information related to XL flap deflection.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>
>
>-
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo buy and sell with people
you know
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage Skin |
| From: | "Maynard, Brad" <bk-maynard(at)ti.com> |
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage
Skin
Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage SkinBrad,
So, what did you do?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Maynard, Brad
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 Bottom Fuselage Skin801 Bottom Fuselage
Skin
I used .025. Hope to test flight in about 2 years.
Brad
All, I wrote Zenith on this very subject. See the answer
Attached below.
Regards, Brad
> Zenith, I bought my kit in 2000. I am assembling the
> 'Rear Fuselage Lower skin -- 8F2-3A' which is 0.016 in thickness.
> This seems extremely thin for the purpose.
> Has there been an upgrade to thicker material on the latest
revisions?
>
> I am concerned that the thin skin with few supports will oilcan. Any
> problems with this?
>
> If so, can I replace with .025 --or-- add 'L's to arrest the oil
> canning?
ANSWER FROM ZENITH:
Ref. 8F2-3A there is no change to the part, 6061-T6 material thickness
t=.016"
There would be no problem replacing the skin with t=.025"
If you are still concerned about oil canning than you could also add L
angles like on the side skins.
Nick Heintz
Zenith Aircraft Company
email: support(at)zenithair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Moellering" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com> |
| Subject: | A Few Questions for Scratchbuilders |
Thank God for this forum!
I have two questions for the scratch-builders out there.
The First:
I am not clear on the meaning of one of the diagrams on the 601 XL rear wing
rib drawing 6W6. My question is this:
The detail diagram of the edge of the forming block on the spar side, says
to "file the top of the block 90 degrees to spar flange on 25 mm". A length
dimension of 214.9 mm is shown as the spar face length of the forming
blocks. The distance from X=0, Yu=147 to X=33.8, Yl=66.5 (as shown in the
curve point table) is 216.16 mm, implying that 1.2 to 1.3 mm should be
removed by the filing operation. Note: this is not the joggle, since the
joggle is clearly stated, in the blank forming diagram, to apply to both top
and bottom flanges. The filing is only done (per drawing) to the top
forming block edge.
Am I correct in executing the following steps in this order?
1. Sand edges of forming block to the curve table points.
2. Sand 1.2 mm off in the region shown perpendicular to the spar side edge
(should leave a spar side edge 214.9 mm long, but it leaves a flat top
surface far longer than 25 mm).
3. Apply 1/8" radius to forming block edge all around.
4. Sand 10 degree springback all around forming block (except rear channel
side which should be 13 degrees).
This will result in a forming block with a straight section abutting the
curve points.
The reason I'm being fussy about this 1.2 mm is that, this is exactly the
region in which the tolerance should be held to a mouse whisker.
Can some of you who've been through this step tell me if I'm interpreting
this correctly?
Second Issue:
The rear panel for the lockers is shown on the drawing as 498 mm length with
sides of 225 and 218 mm. What isn't shown clearly are the angles in which
these sides meet. I'm guessing that the top side is perpendicular to the
225 and 218 sides, but it could also be the case that this piece is cut
trapezoidally, or even the perpendicular side could be the bottom????.
Maybe I'm overlooking an obvious clue here; in case I am, please bear with
me.
Someone who has installed the lockers please clue me in on the correct way
to cut this piece.
I do appreciate the help in this forum!
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. |
Thanks everyone. It sounds like Caleb was giving
me straight skinny about the trim issue. I think
I do have the latest trim tab design - inset into
the elevator and taking much of one side. I
still think the decision to reduce the flap
deflection might have been related to the design
problem as much as the trim issue, but I guess that doesn't really matter.
Can anyone tell me if the full flaps (30 degrees)
is really helpful in dumping altitude? Will 20
degrees be a big improvement over no flaps at all?
I guess my choices at this point are whether to
settle for the current limit of 20 degrees or
demand or design a larger deflection.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 02:58 PM 2/7/2007, you wrote:
>
>Paul--
> I fought the same issue when I built my
> flaps. I could not get the 30 degrees. I ended
> up with 26 degrees. Based on previous comments
> on trim issues, I enlarged my elevator trim tab
> to full span. I can trim out flaps up to about
> 18-20 degrees. With full flap deflection I need to hold back stick
>
>George May
>zodiac 912s 44 hours
>
>
>>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>>To:
>>Subject: Zenith-List: XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection.
>>Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:18:08 -0800
>>
>>
>>I have been fighting with the flap actuator
>>motor on my XL and come up with a strange set
>>of design conflicts. The deflection called for
>>on sheet 6-S-3 calls for 30 degrees maximum
>>deflection, but the design shown on 6-B-19 can
>>only produce about 20 degrees of deflection.
>>
>>I spoke to Caleb at ZAC today and he promised
>>to look into this issue and get back to me. I
>>also wanted to ask list members if anyone has
>>run into this problem already. What flap
>>deflection have builders who finished their
>>XLs get? A related question (according to
>>Caleb) is whether the elevator trim can
>>neutralize the pitch changes with full flaps.
>>
>>I would appreciate any information related to XL flap deflection.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Paul
>>XL fuselage
>>
>>
>>-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo
>buy and sell with people you know
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. |
I recall a number of messages a while ago where a number of folks reported
they rarely used their flaps at all.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
| Subject: | XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. |
Full flaps ---27degrees --70mph and you'll come down at about 60 degrees
glide path
George May
601XL 912s --44 hours
_________________________________________________________________
FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo buy and sell with people
you know
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Few Questions for Scratchbuilders |
The locker panel is almost rectangular, but actually a trapezoid
(almost?). This is because the wing tapers a little bit at that
point. I suggest you start with it cut as a rectangle and adjust the
few mm needed as you fit it in place. If you build it according to
the photo guide, the bottom skin will already be riveted in place,
and I suggest you fit the angle that meets the top skin before trying
to drill pilot holes in the rear panel.
One issue to watch here is the orientation of the flanges on the rear
ribs surrounding the locker. The drawings are a little vague
(wrong?) on this point. The proper way is to have the flanges on the
rear ribs on both sides of the locker facing away from the
locker. This gives you a smooth side wall on both the inboard and
outboard side of the locker. If you get this wrong, the rear panel
for the locker will need to be a considerably different size.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 03:52 PM 2/7/2007, you wrote:
>The rear panel for the lockers is shown on the drawing as 498 mm
>length with sides of 225 and 218 mm. What isn't shown clearly are
>the angles in which these sides meet. I'm guessing that the top
>side is perpendicular to the 225 and 218 sides, but it could also be
>the case that this piece is cut trapezoidally, or even the
>perpendicular side could be the bottom????.
>
>Maybe I'm overlooking an obvious clue here; in case I am, please bear with me.
>
>Someone who has installed the lockers please clue me in on the
>correct way to cut this piece.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | One man Wing Flipper |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net> |
Needed a way to flip the wing over, so. . .
Got a 14 foot long piece of 3" SCH 40 PVC and rigged up a block & tackle to raise
and flip the wing. The PVC fits right through the lightening holes and the
block & tackle is a bicycle lift (has a brake to hold the height) that wasn't
being used. The wing turns real easy but needs a counter balance to level it
out for lowering / raising. Can be done by one man now.
See more at the kit log site.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93541#93541
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_flipper_003_666.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_flipper_001_208.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wingrider" <rwhitt3(at)HOTMAIL.COM> |
I've also been looking for a locking latch for my canopy, one of the best looking options I've seen so far is the DC696 from http://www.illinoislock.com. I'll have one in about a week, we'll see.
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93547#93547
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection. |
live with 20 degrees and learn to slip to kill altitude
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Sent: Feb 7, 2007 7:15 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Flaps: Maximum down deflection.
>
>
>Thanks everyone. It sounds like Caleb was giving
>me straight skinny about the trim issue. I think
>I do have the latest trim tab design - inset into
>the elevator and taking much of one side. I
>still think the decision to reduce the flap
>deflection might have been related to the design
>problem as much as the trim issue, but I guess that doesn't really matter.
>
>Can anyone tell me if the full flaps (30 degrees)
>is really helpful in dumping altitude? Will 20
>degrees be a big improvement over no flaps at all?
January 24, 2007 - February 07, 2007
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-gl