Zenith-List Archive Browser

Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-gq
March 27, 2007 - April 07, 2007

> > Greeting from Perth, > > Chris > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith Rudder Design
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
I was just talking about this with Geoff Heap on Sunday (I was over his place and he had his plane out and the tail feathers on, looks good!). We both figured it wouldn't hurt to put a doubler plate in the lower and of the rudder spar that spans the distance between the hinge points. As it is those hinge brackets just rivet directly to the spar web. Considering the picture of the flipped over airplane, it's strong as it is. Add a double/stiffener plate (say .032) and you should be golden. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103185#103185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: E-LSA 601
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
The big problem with the conforming design E-LSA when effective will be that it won't allow any deviation from the approved design. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103191#103191 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: E-LSA 601
Also, in order to make a conforming E-LSA kit the kit manufacturer must also make S-LSA planes. I don't think ZAC has any such plans. Perhaps AMD would do that, but I have not heard they have those intentions. The type of kit envisioned in this E-LSA is more like the S-LSA than a classic kit. It doesn't have the 51% requirement and doesn't allow the builder to make ANY modifications to the design. Still, we can have our kit built planes certified under the Fat Ultralight provision through January 31, 2008. The only "For Hire" flight allowed for E-LSA planes I am aware of is "Instruction". These planes are not eligible for normal "For Hire" operations such as Air Taxi or Cropdusting or cargo hauling. The instruction provision is part of the "Bait" to get fat ultralights registered in the normal system. Paul XL fuselage At 05:48 AM 3/27/2007, you wrote: > >There are a few E-LSA 601s out there, but they weren't built from >conforming kits. They were certificated under the "fat ultralight" >provision of the new rules. The "fat ultralight" provision expires at >the end of February of 2008. The standards document for E-LSA >conforming kit manufacturing has only recently been finalized so no >conforming kits for any design have yet been approved. I don't think >Zenith has said whether or not they will produce an E-LSA conforming >kit. --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: burbby <burbby(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing
Thanks that is helpfull. Do you have splices in the tubing from the pitot tube to the instrument panel of is it one piece? Thanks Gary Gig Giacona wrote: Yes, there is enough room in the lightening holes and yes holes and grommets is also a pretty good option. I went thought the lightening holes and used quick ties between the ribs to the power wires that had gone though drilled holes in the ribs. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103172#103172 --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Old kit
I just purchased a 601XL serial number from another builder who decided not to build. There was no charge from Zenith. I simply had to fill out a couple of forms and the seller also had to fill out some forms and that was it. Call them. They are very helpful. I bought all the newsletters/back issues. While many listers have stated that they feel they are useful I was not convinced of that. The assembly manual updates are free from the builders-only accessible pages and there is also a list showing the current release date for drawings. I just checked the builders pages and they show that a new set of current drawings is $50.00 to registered builders. Gig Giacona wrote: I think Zenith charges something on the order of $50USD to transfer the serial number to your name. Once they do they have a section on the website with the construction manual. I have recently found out that all the links in for the non-XL section of 601 website work so you might need to contact Zenith and buy an updated manual. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103176#103176 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Old kit
Date: Mar 27, 2007
> I think Zenith charges something on the order of $50USD to transfer the serial number to your name. They didn't charge me anything but then I was standing in the factory in Mexico, MO. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Hey Andrew, I don't know about production aircraft, but I know there are other homebuilts built with multiple leading edge sections. RV's and Bearhawk for example. I got approval from ZAC before doing this. Also the new ZAC Construction Standards manual says it is OK to use multiple skins as long as they overlap a rib. I'm not one of those builders who keeps a log of every hour spent working on my airplane, so I can't say exactly how long it took. I can say for sure that it was much quicker and easier to make a 3 piece LE skin than to make the single 12' piece. It works for me, so I'm happy with it. Dave Clay http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103215#103215 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Don't know much about the Corvair other than one is hanging on an engine stand in my garage. I plan to order WW conversion manul soon. Is there any aftermarket heads that allow for dual spark plugs? -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103220#103220 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
I haven't gotten that far yet. The wings are done and I'm on the fuselage. I just took the tubing that Zenith sent me and ran half for the pitot and half for the static. Looking at it it will probably be close and depend on how I have to route it. It won't surprise me if I have to add more somewhere in the cockpit. burbby wrote: > Thanks that is helpfull. Do you have splices in the tubing from the pitot tube to the instrument panel of is it one piece? > > Thanks > Gary Gig Giacona wrote: > > Yes, there is enough room in the lightening holes and yes holes and grommets is also a pretty good option. > > I went thought the lightening holes and used quick ties between the ribs to the power wires that had gone though drilled holes in the ribs. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > > > Read this topic online Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" (http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI-) at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103237#103237 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Not that I've ever heard of. The WW system uses dual ignition on single plugs. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103238#103238 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Mark Langford has a set that were probably custom-made: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/twinplugs/ For Corvair-related questions you should subscribe to the CorvAircraft list: http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html To search the list's archives: http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/ -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing
I did the same thing, Gig. However, In thinking it through, I decided that I would go ahead and plumb my pitot & static instruments and run the tubing under the top longeron to the skin panel that is right beside the pilot's seat. I will make a hole in the skin large enough for both tubes. When I attach the wings, I will make a connection just inside the fuselage. It will be behind an upholstery panel so not vulnerable or in the way. Jay in Dallas "Gig Giacona" wrote: > >I haven't gotten that far yet. The wings are done and I'm on the fuselage. I just took the tubing that Zenith sent me and ran half for the pitot and half for the static. Looking at it it will probably be close and depend on how I have to route it. It won't surprise me if I have to add more somewhere in the cockpit. > > >burbby wrote: >> Thanks that is helpfull. Do you have splices in the tubing from the pitot tube to the instrument panel of is it one piece? >> >> Thanks >> Gary > >Gig Giacona wrote: > >> >> Yes, there is enough room in the lightening holes and yes holes and grommets is also a pretty good option. >> >> I went thought the lightening holes and used quick ties between the ribs to the power wires that had gone though drilled holes in the ribs. >> >> -------- >> W.R. "Gig" Giacona >> 601XL Under Construction >> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online Looking for earth-friendly autos? >> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" (http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE4MGw4Z2hlBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW5jZW50ZXI-) at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103237#103237 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
And when you go to Mark's page make sure you read the last line on the page. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103249#103249 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Routing of Pitot/Static lines in wing
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Sounds like a good idea Jay. I'll probably steal it. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103251#103251 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: old style 601XL wheel pants
One more time listers. Any scratch builders or one kit at a time builders out there interested in an unused set of the old style wheel pants for a 601XL? All three molded fiberglass pants (packed in three boxes for shipping) plus all six steel mounting brackets included. Asking $225.00 (half Zenith factory price). Any reasonable offer would be considered. Can ship via UPS. Any takers? Ed Moody II Rayne, LA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Subject: Re: Apology
In a message dated 3/27/2007 8:09:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org writes: Just from memory, I thought a regular Cessna 152 was +4 and -3 Gs where as an aerobat is +6, -6 Gs, which is the same as a 601Xl, so wouldn't that by default qualify a 601XL as an aerobatic plane by default? That wouldn't apply to the 701 though. Why not? The 701 is the same +6 and -3 ultimate load at gross weight. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!
William, You are partly correct. Most people's resting G tolerance is in the 4 range. "Resting" means that you have no G suit on AND perform no anti-G straining maneuver. My resting G tolerance when I went through the centrifuge was 4.5 (I am short and stocky). The affects of positive G's are as simple as a pump's (heart) pressure head. If you are tall and have low blood pressure, you will more than likely have a low resting G tolerance. This is why on average, women have a higher resting G tolerance than men (they are typically shorter). The G-suit only adds about 1 G of additional positive G tolerance. The anti-G straining maneuver makes up the rest of the difference. In the centrifuge, we were required to maintain 7.8 G's for 30 seconds. -Something the Hornet is hardly capable of doing, but... It was painful. The Eagle and Viper guys have to go to 9 G's. Air show guys hit very high G's, but for a shorter duration of time. The factors increasing the possibility of gray out, tunnel vision, or even GLOC (G induced loss of conciousness) are the amount of G's, G onset rate, and length of time sustained. I totally agree that entry speed is not a factor, other than the higher the entry speed, theoretically, the lower the G force required to make it over the top. In relatively low horsepower and high drag aerobatic aircraft like the Citabria, 3 - 4 G's is required to make it over the top. The only problem I had with moving body parts under high G was getting my head turned around while in a defensive dogfight under high positive G (>6). I would look at the HUD for whatever information I needed, and get my head looking back prior to pulling significant G's... High positive G's were even more difficult when wearing NVG's, but that is another story... VR/ Brandon 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 80 hours --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Old kit
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Chris- Most of the surface corrosion will only be a problem if you decide to polish. Regardless of the plans, research the archives when you find something out of the ordinary. Don't blindly trust the instructions and build yourself into a corner. If you can't find anything in the archives, put "HD/HDS people" in your subject line when you have a question and you'll get an answer from the few, the proud, the HDS builders! Good building. Welcome aboard. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: <chrisoz(at)bmail.com.au> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 4:58 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Old kit > > Hello Listers, > > I have bought a 601 HDS kit on ebay last month, and this weekend flew to > the east coast (of Australia) to pick it up. Kind of exciting if you buy > something unseen (no photos), pay $5000 to a person you don't know and who > can't tell you much about the kit ( not even the type of 601), but I guess > one sometimes has to take a leap of faith. > > The kit had basically not been touched, except for the rudder which had > been clecoed together. The kit is 10 years old and has spent the last 8 > years in a shed gathering dust and sustaining a bit of surface corrosion. > While I initially didn't expect it to be complete to my delight it turned > out to be, including canopy, long range tanks and even a set of strobes. > The canopy has been rolled up for ten years, and has sat in a hot shed. > Here is the question: Has anybody encountered problems with unrolling > their canopys after a longer period of time? > > Also the kit came with a set of plans and a serial number, but no manual > and the plans are dor the HD model. I hope Zenair will update the plans > and provide me with a replacement manual, if not I might have to ask you > guys for help. > > Greeting from Perth, > > Chris > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: Ron Ellis <rge177(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Motor Switch
I've ordered a 10 amp breaker for my flap circuit, which is what ZAC calls out on 6-S-2 of the 03/04 version of drawings for the 601XL. I couldn't find a current draw rating on my flap motor, so I'm not sure what is required. Does anyone know if there's been a change in the requirment for the flap motor amperage? Ron Ellis Haslet, TX 601XL Jab 3300 Enigma >From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> >Subject: >Hi James, >You want a DPDT Momentary switch for this purpose. >The 601 drawings >I received from ZAC include a wiring diagram for this >function. I >also did one for my own installation that includes a >15 amp circuit >breaker (the size recommended by ZAC), the flap >switch, wiring for Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Flap Motor Switch
Date: Mar 27, 2007
I measured the steady-state draw of the factory actuator at 3-4 amps with no mechanical load. I assume there is an initial surge that my meter doesn't see and that the draw will be higher when actually moving the flaps in flight. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair - Dual sparkplugs
Hey Andy; I am rather new to the Corvair thing myself but if I understand the WW single/dual setup it should be just fine as he does it. ashontz wrote: Don't know much about the Corvair other than one is hanging on an engine stand in my garage. I plan to order WW conversion manul soon. Is there any aftermarket heads that allow for dual spark plugs? -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103220#103220 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Flap Motor Switch
Date: Mar 28, 2007
I can add that a 7.5 amp fuse is not sufficient under flight loads. I use a 15 a and it is fine. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:40 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Motor Switch > > I measured the steady-state draw of the factory actuator at 3-4 amps with no > mechanical load. I assume there is an initial surge that my meter doesn't > see and that the draw will be higher when actually moving the flaps in > flight. > > -- Craig > > > -- 2:31 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Making an LRI probe
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Ron, My last message to the group got lost in space. When I announced,all the inventory evaporated in 3 hrs. I have another batch of 50 coming in a week or so. I'll keep your email and send out notices to those who got left behind the first time before I make the next announcement. thanks for your interest. John ----- Original Message ----- From: R.D.(Ron) Leclerc To: John Bolding Cc: R.D.(Ron) Leclerc Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: xxx Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: Making an LRI probe Hey John Don't know if you received my other e-mail... I'm interested in acquiring a probe if available - I have a gauge... need a nice picture for the face yet though! Please let me if available and payment procedures. Thank you Ron Leclerc infow(at)mts.net 204-227-8324 **************** Been holding off this discussion as I didn't have things quite together but lots of guys are looking for probes so I'll post what I have. I can supply these for $30, injection molded. they have 1/8" NPT (F) threads on the top. These are in stock. Been looking around for a good silkscreener for the guage face but haven't found one yet that I like so you're on your own there for the immediate future. I'll have them however as soon as I can. I'll post a picture of the probes as soon as I figure out how. Probes are black and made from nylon so rest assured that paint is probably not gonna stick. John Bolding --> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Older Style Wheel Pants
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Rather than give up on them, Has anybody tried to remodel the older style wheel pants for a sleeker appearance and function? I have not installed the ones that I have because I don't like the appearance. Gary Ray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Making an LRI probe
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Wrong picture, sorry John ----- Original Message ----- From: R.D.(Ron) Leclerc To: John Bolding Cc: R.D.(Ron) Leclerc Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: xxx Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: Making an LRI probe Hey John Don't know if you received my other e-mail... I'm interested in acquiring a probe if available - I have a gauge... need a nice picture for the face yet though! Please let me if available and payment procedures. Thank you Ron Leclerc infow(at)mts.net 204-227-8324 **************** Been holding off this discussion as I didn't have things quite together but lots of guys are looking for probes so I'll post what I have. I can supply these for $30, injection molded. they have 1/8" NPT (F) threads on the top. These are in stock. Been looking around for a good silkscreener for the guage face but haven't found one yet that I like so you're on your own there for the immediate future. I'll have them however as soon as I can. I'll post a picture of the probes as soon as I figure out how. Probes are black and made from nylon so rest assured that paint is probably not gonna stick. John Bolding --> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Making an LRI probe
Date: Mar 28, 2007
OOPS, last message was not for the list, need to wake up before I hit the send key. Also wrong pic. Might as well correct for everybody. First batch of probes went in 3 hrs. another 50 on the way, If interested send an email and I'll notify you priviatly. All that have emailed so far are on the list. Sorry for the confusion John ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Apology
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
[quote="NYTerminat(at)aol.com"]In a message dated 3/27/2007 8:09:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org writes: > > Just from memory, I thought a regular Cessna 152 was +4 and -3 Gs where as an aerobat is +6, -6 Gs, which is the same as a 601Xl, so wouldn't that by default qualify a 601XL as an aerobatic plane by default? That wouldn't apply to the 701 though. Why not? The 701 is the same +6 and -3 ultimate load at gross weight. > > > AOL now offersle="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" target="_blank">AOL.com. > [b] You are comparing apples and oranges here. The +/- 6G's is the ultimate load factor for the Zodiac, while a certified aircraft generally give the flight load factor. For certified aircraft, the ultimate + load must be at least 5.7G, for utility 6.6G, and for aerobatic 9.0 G, and that's the minimum. The Sukhoi's ultimate load factor is +/-23 G's. The Zodiac doesn't make the utility category, let alone the aerobatic category. Of course it's an experimental and you can do what you want. Do everything right and you'll never have a problem. I'm sure no one ever botched a maneuver, thus the incredibly low aerobatic accident rate in the NTSB files. There are a lot of great things about experimental aviation; you have a lot of freedom and there is a huge choice of aircraft designs out there. You can choose a 2 seat design, stuff 4 seats in it and increase the gross weight by 500 lbs if you want to. You can tell yourself you baby the plane and don't need the safety factor, so it's perfectly safe for you and the way you fly. But it would probably be a better idea to choose a design that better fits your needs. It's the same with aerobatics and the Zodiac. If you really want to do aerobatics, wouldn't it make more sense to choose a design more appropriate to your needs? You can rationalize anything, and cite 100 examples of people having no problems doing what you propose doing. Sure people have probably looped about every GA aircraft out there, usually with no ill effects. It still doesn't make it smart. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103375#103375 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
I'm going to do mine this way. I know #3 and #4 ribs are close together. #5 and #6 may be close together too. If not I'll add another rib on the outboard side of the tank for more to tie into. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103394#103394 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Dino Bortolin" <dbortol(at)gmail.com>
Subject: LRI gauge artwork
List, I drew ten variations of artwork for the Dwyer gauge. Print it out and pick your favorite. Dino Bortolin XL/Corvair (eventually, pace is slow!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: e: xxx xxx Re: Making an LRI probe
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
This is certainly not rocket science. No sense spending a hundred years figuring it out to the the last angstrom. Just a mere differential pressure sensor. A REALLY simple way to test it would be mount it on something (a Burt Rutan wind tunnel for example (a car)). with a pressure gauge (airspeed indicator, etc) on each port hop in, stick it out the window and simply confirm a reasonable pressure differential across say 0-30 degrees or so. That would certainly be enough to tell you whether or not it will work. Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103409#103409 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scratch built wing update and pictures
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Hold on there kids! I think we're getting confused. The inboard section covers nose ribs 1-3. There are only 3 nose ribs inboard of the fuel tank in my plans. The outboard section covers nose ribs 4-wingtip. The fuel tank section overlaps the other skins only about 20mm over the flanges at nose ribs 3 and 4. In the new ZAC Construction Standards Manual on page 40 (CS #604) the method for using several smaller skins is clearly described. This is where I got the idea. I called and spoke to Caleb and described what I planned to do and he said it would be fine if I followed the method in the Construction Standards. It's really very simple. I suppose nut plates and screws would work , but the Standards recommend you stick with the fasteners specified in the plans. Dave Clay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103430#103430 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: Ron Ellis <rge177(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Flap Motor Switch
Thanks for the info Craig, and Gary, I also have the 15a circuit shown on 6-B-20 (didn't see that before), so I'll just reorder a 15a breaker so I won't worry. Ron >I measured the steady-state draw of the factory >actuator at 3-4 amps >with no >mechanical load. I assume there is an initial surge >that my meter >doesn't >see and that the draw will be higher when actually >moving the flaps in >flight. >-- Craig Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap Motor Switch
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)houston.rr.com>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Two follow-up questions for some of the responders: Why DPDT and not SPDT? Maybe there's a difference with the 601 and 701 (I'm a 701 builder), but it seems with only one linear actuator you don't need a double pole. Am I missing something? Second, does anyone know who sells toggle switches that actually look like a flap handle, as opposed to the generic looking toggle switch? Regarding your original question Jim, I've purchased Bob Nuckoll's Aeroelectic Connection. He gives an excellent wiring diagram for an electric flap system. In the diagram, he recommends a 15 amp breaker for the flap motor and 5 amp breaker for the flap control (relays and limit switches). Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103447#103447 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Subject: Re: Flap Motor Switch
In a message dated 3/28/2007 12:17:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, djg7(at)houston.rr.com writes: Two follow-up questions for some of the responders: Why DPDT and not SPDT? Maybe there's a difference with the 601 and 701 (I'm a 701 builder), but it seems with only one linear actuator you don't need a double pole. Am I missing something? If you are not using relays, you need the DPDT switch to reverse the polarity Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ray" <rmallett(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: 601HD wings modified to 23'
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Hi All, I have a partially completed 601HD kit. The first owner ordered modified 23' wings instead of the original 27' wings. It is important when completed this kit comply with LSA requirements. Personnel at Zenith feel there will not be a problem but to lessen concern vortex generators could be added to the wings lowering the stall speed by 4 to 6 mph (conservative estimate). Any thoughts to assure LSA compliance especially as it relates to stall or cruise speeds would be greatly appreciated. Ray ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: Frank Stutzman <stutzman(at)stutzman.com>
Subject: Re: Small Vs. Big - small plane builders pep talk ...
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007, Bima, Martin wrote: > A friend of mine recently learned he has to put about $15,000 into his > Piper Arrow engine because it sits around all of the time, and only > turns over about 5-10 hours per year. > > Why? Not very fun flying around the local patch in a rocket. > > They all get laughed at by the big boys with their Bonanzas and > Buck82's. But while the big boys cruise an hour to the left and right > twice a year, these UL guys are putting up 20-30 hours a month in the > summer and a few of them them half that in the winter on skis. > > I am building a small and slow aircraft to do the kind of flying I will > do most often - putt-putting around the local forests, beaches, > sand-dunes, etc. If I ever want to fly 2000 miles from here in a hurry, > I'll jump on a 737. Personally, I think every one ought to have at least two planes. I'm planning on building a 701 simply because it is so very un-like my Bonanza. The Bo is fast and confortable for the twice a month 2+ hour trips I routinely make. Doing the same in a 701 would be painful at best. On the other hand the Bonanza is just plain wasteful when I just want to go, as you say, "putt-putting around". Now I suppose if I could find an expermental that could land and t/o in less than 300 feet, cruise at over 150 mph, burn less than 5 gallons an hour and have a useful load over 800 lbs, I could live with just one plane. I am unaware of any such animal and I don't think it exists. Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR (soon to be Boise, ID) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Small Vs. Big - small plane builders pep talk ...
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
My hanger neighbors got a Bo A-36 about a year or so ago. The two partners were required to get 25 hours each of dual in it for insurance. Cost them a fortune in AvGas. If they fly a couple of hour a month now it was a busy month. Before they had an Archer they each flew it at least five or six hours a month and almost always just came out and flew on the weekends for the fun of it. They never just fly around the patch anymore. Kinda sad. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103517#103517 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R.P." <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
Date: Mar 28, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "ray" <rmallett(at)tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 1:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD wings modified to 23' Hi All, I have a partially completed 601HD kit. The first owner ordered modified 23' wings instead of the original 27' wings. It is important when completed this kit comply with LSA requirements. Personnel at Zenith feel there will not be a problem but to lessen concern vortex generators could be added to the wings lowering the stall speed by 4 to 6 mph (conservative estimate). Any thoughts to assure LSA compliance especially as it relates to stall or cruise speeds would be greatly appreciated. Ray Hi Ray. I'm glad to see someone trying this. I have an HD that I'm quite pleased with, but I've considered clipping a couple feet off each wingtip for higher cruise. That fat HD wing is REAL draggy at 115 MPH (cruise with Jabiru 3300 @ 108 hp). I hesitate to clip the wings because I don't want to loose too much of the excellent slow speed with the existing wings. According to the Zenith specs, the HD stalls at 44 mph. The LSA rules say max stall speed is 51 MPH http://sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html so I'm inclined to believe you might be OK even without the vortex generators. Please keep us posted with your results once you get into your flight testing. Rick http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
That basically makes it an HDS. The Zenith site says the HDS has a stall speed at 1050 lbs of 54mph and a top speed of 150mph. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html The top speed isn't a problem because even if the plane can do it you could adjust the prop so it can't. The LSA max stall speed is 50 mph. Can you shave off 4 mph with vortex generators? I don't know. But remember that stall speed is at 1050 lbs. that is awful low compared to the XL. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103521#103521 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R.P." <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
Date: Mar 28, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23' > > > That basically makes it an HDS. The Zenith site says the HDS has a stall > speed at 1050 lbs of 54mph and a top speed of 150mph. > > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html The span would be the same as the HDS: 23'. But the total surface area will be greater than the HDS's 98'ft (compared to 130'ft for the stock HD). The HD wing is a constant chord at 58" instead of the taper from 58" at the root to 34" at the tip, so a clip-wing HD will have more surface area than HDS , hence a lower stall speed than the 54mph of the HDS. I'm not an engineer, just a mechanic... so anyone who has a better understanding of the math involved can feel free to correct my aerodynamic assumptions. Interesting idea, I'll be anxious to see how it plays out. Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Subject: Re: Small Vs. Big - small plane builders pep talk ...
Geez.. my 801 can do one of those things consistantly. I can do 150,,,, headed straight down, and I can burn 5 GPH during decent. One out of thr ee isn't all too bad. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Frank Stutzman wrote: > On Wed, 28 Mar 2007, Bima, Martin wrote: > A friend of mine recently learned he has to put about $15,000 into his > Piper Arrow engine because it sits around all of the time, and only > turns over about 5-10 hours per year. > > Why? Not very fun flying around the local patch in a rocket. > > They all get laughed at by the big boys with their Bonanzas and > Buck82's. But while the big boys cruise an hour to the left and right > twice a year, these UL guys are putting up 20-30 hours a month in the > summer and a few of them them half that in the winter on skis. > > I am building a small and slow aircraft to do the kind of flying I wil l > do most often - putt-putting around the local forests, beaches, > sand-dunes, etc. If I ever want to fly 2000 miles from here in a hurry , > I'll jump on a 737. Personally, I think every one ought to have at least two planes. I'm planning on building a 701 simply because it is so very un-like my Bonanza. The Bo is fast and confortable for the twice a month 2+ hour trips I routinely make. Doing the same in a 701 would be painful at bes t. On the other hand the Bonanza is just plain wasteful when I just want to go, as you say, "putt-putting around". Now I suppose if I could find an expermental that could land and t/o in less than 300 feet, cruise at over 150 mph, burn less than 5 gallons an hour and have a useful load over 800 lbs, I could live with just one plane. I am unaware of any such animal and I don't think it exists. Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR (soon to be Boise, ID) ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== Geez.. my 801 can do one of those things consistantly. I can do 15 0,,,, headed straight down, and I can burn 5 GPH during decent. One out of three isn't all too bad. <G>

Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- Frank Stutzman <stu tzman(at)stutzman.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List messa ge posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutz man.com>

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007, Bima,&n bsp;Martin wrote:

> --> Zenith-List mes sage posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro. mb.ca>

> A friend of mine recently learned he has to put about $15,000& nbsp;into his
> Piper Arrow engine becaus e it sits around all of the time,&nbs p;and only
> turns over about 5-10 h ours per year.
>
> Why? Not very&nb sp;fun flying around the local patch in&nb sp;a rocket.
>
> They all get laugh ed at by the big boys with their ;Bonanzas and
> Buck82's. But while the&n bsp;big boys cruise an hour to the le ft and right
> twice a year, these&n bsp;UL guys are putting up 20-30 hours&nbs p;a month in the
> summer and a ;few of them them half that in the&nb sp;winter on skis.
>
> I am buildin g a small and slow aircraft to do&nbs p;the kind of flying I will
> do&nbs p;most often - putt-putting around the loc al forests, beaches,
> sand-dunes, etc. I f I ever want to fly 2000 miles from here in a hurry,
> I'll jump&nb sp;on a 737.

Personally, I think every&n bsp;one ought to have at least two pl anes.

I'm planning on building a 701&nbs p;simply because it is so very un-like&nbs p;my
Bonanza.  The Bo is fast and confortable for the twice a month 2+ hour
trips I routinely make.  Do ing the same in a 701 would be p ainful at best.
On the other hand ;the Bonanza is just plain wasteful when&n bsp;I just want to
go, as you say , "putt-putting around".

Now I suppose i f I could find an expermental that co uld land and t/o in
less than 300 feet, cruise at over 150 mph, burn&n bsp;less than 5 gallons an
hour and hav e a useful load over 800 lbs, I could live with just one
plane.   I am unaware of any such animal and&n bsp;I don't think it exists.

Frank Stutz man
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, ======================== ========================     - The Zenith-List Email Foru ist utilities such as the Subscriptions pa ======================== ======================== sp;     - NEW MATRONICS WEB ======================== ======================== =======

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Rick, neither of you posts to this thread can be read in the web forum. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103558#103558 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Ray- Look in the archives. Unfortunately, LSA figures have to be attained as the plane was originally designed. As I understand it, you can't use VGs to bring an airframe into LSA requirements. I would suggest contacting EAA or (Gulp) the FAA for a final word. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: ray To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD wings modified to 23' Hi All, I have a partially completed 601HD kit. The first owner ordered modified 23' wings instead of the original 27' wings. It is important when completed this kit comply with LSA requirements. Personnel at Zenith feel there will not be a problem but to lessen concern vortex generators could be added to the wings lowering the stall speed by 4 to 6 mph (conservative estimate). Any thoughts to assure LSA compliance especially as it relates to stall or cruise speeds would be greatly appreciated. Ray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Subject: Re: Small Vs. Big - small plane builders pep talk ...
Frank, When you find it let me know!!! Bob Spudis In a message dated 3/28/2007 3:26:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stutzman(at)stutzman.com writes: Now I suppose if I could find an expermental that could land and t/o in less than 300 feet, cruise at over 150 mph, burn less than 5 gallons an hour and have a useful load over 800 lbs, I could live with just one plane. I am unaware of any such animal and I don't think it exists. Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR (soon to be Boise, ID) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
rickpitcher wrote: > --- Hi Ray. I'm glad to see someone trying this. I have an HD that I'm quite pleased with, but I've considered clipping a couple feet off each wingtip for higher cruise. That fat HD wing is REAL draggy at 115 MPH (cruise with Jabiru 3300 @ 108 hp). I hesitate to clip the wings because I don't want to loose too much of the excellent slow speed with the existing wings. According to the Zenith specs, the HD stalls at 44 mph. The LSA rules say max stall speed is 51 MPH http://sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html so I'm inclined to believe you might be OK even without the vortex generators. Please keep us posted with your results once you get into your flight testing. Rick http://www.lightflyers.com/birthday Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103577#103577 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Gig Giacona wrote: > That basically makes it an HDS. The Zenith site says the HDS has a stall speed at 1050 lbs of 54mph and a top speed of 150mph. > > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html > > The top speed isn't a problem because even if the plane can do it you could adjust the prop so it can't. > > The LSA max stall speed is 50 mph. Can you shave off 4 mph with vortex generators? I don't know. But remember that stall speed is at 1050 lbs. that is awful low compared to the XL. The span would be the same as the HDS: 23'. But the total surface area will be greater than the HDS's 98'ft (compared to 130'ft for the stock HD). The HD wing is a constant chord at 58" instead of the taper from 58" at the root to 34" at the tip, so a clip-wing HD will have more surface area than HDS , hence a lower stall speed than the 54mph of the HDS. I'm not an engineer, just a mechanic... so anyone who has a better understanding of the math involved can feel free to correct my aerodynamic assumptions. Interesting idea, I'll be anxious to see how it plays out. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103578#103578 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Gig Giacona wrote: > Rick, neither of you posts to this thread can be read in the web forum. Thanks Gig. I'll repost from the Web-based site. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103581#103581 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
[quote="naumuk(at)alltel.net"]Ray- Look in the archives. Unfortunately, LSA figures have to be attained as the plane was originally designed. As I understand it, you can't use VGs to bring an airframe into LSA requirements. I would suggest contacting EAA or (Gulp) the FAA for a final word. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa > --- I don't think that's correct Bill. >From http://sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html "The FAA defines a light-sport aircraft as an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following: " If the plane hasn't been issued an airwothiness certificate yet you're "good to go". If a plane was previously certified with numbers outside the LSA realm, then you can't re-register the same plane with different numbers (speeds weight, etc) in order to "pencil whip" it into compliance. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103584#103584 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: acrobatics on 601s
Date: Mar 28, 2007
YEA, VERILY YEA!! I strongly recommend all personnel herein involved , obtain and read carefully, Richard Bach's "A Gift Of Wings." In ther e you will find a short story, "Found at _______ (Can't remember the p lace) . Bach hits this discussion spot-on, from thirty years ago. =0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A Fr om: Jim Norton =0A To: zenith-list@ma tronics.com =0A Sent: Sunday, Ma rch 25, 2007 6:20 PM=0A Subject: Zenith-List: acrobatics on 601s ton(at)optonline.net>=0A=0A It seems to me that people have two opposing views to personal safety =0A v s. individual rights. The old school would say that an individual has =0A the unalienable right to do stupid things as long as they don 't do =0A damage to other people's life or property. The new school would =0A say that we must provide adequate protection for people who are too =0A lazy, stupid, or too easily duped into do ing unsafe acts which would =0A hurt them or others.* Remember i n the old days when we had swing sets =0A on the school playground Some of us would swing as high as we could, =0A others just lik e a more casual motion. =0A The tension between the two pole s is illustrated in the idea that =0A we need to have a license to fly a plane. A industrious person would do =0A all he could do t o learn about flying before s/he got behind the stick. =0A Other idiots would get behind the stick and think "i can do this" and =0A attempt to fly without any preparation. Who is right? The tension =0A can be further illustrated by the designation of the 6 01 i.e. =0A experimental/recreational. The old school says I ha ve the right to =0A experiment anyway I /deem fit/ with this airc raft. (note the emphasis =0A on deem fit). The new school thinks a recreational plane should be =0A /made and used/ in such that i t would be as absolutely safe as =0A possible. Unfortunately, mos t of us who are fliers are tend to be old =0A school. Courts, gov ernment officials, laws etc. tend to be new school=0A These are po lar views, the way it all shakes out in time and society is =0A s omewhere in between. Not all pilots are Evil Kneivels, nor are all =0A others walking around in pads, bubbles and bullet proof vests, it just =0A seems that way. It's not all bad that the daredevil s aren't allowed to =0A do whatever they please - likewise its not all bad that some of us like =0A to push the envelope. We probab ly will never resolve the =0A tension/conflict between the two cam ps, but maybe we can exercise some =0A tolerance...=0A=0A ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ==0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NTSB Final Report Available
From: "moorecomp" <moorecomp(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
All, The NTSB released the final report on the crash from last February in Modesto, CA that killed 2 people. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060217X00209&key=1 "The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: The structural failure of the wings for undetermined reasons." Comments? Craig Moore A&P Northern MI 701 builder wannabe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103630#103630 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Instrument panels
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)houston.rr.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
I'm looking for input from other builders on exactly how to build the instrument panel. After the basic layout is determined and holes are cut in the supplied .025 panel, are there 'subpanels' attached to the face of the instrument panel? If so, what are the subpanels made of? Are they best attached using screws and nutplates? What about paint? If possible, attach pics to any replies (especially of work in progress)! Thanks, Dan Ginty Woodlands, TX 701 builder - 70% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103633#103633 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
rickpitcher wrote: > > Gig Giacona wrote: > > That basically makes it an HDS. The Zenith site says the HDS has a stall speed at 1050 lbs of 54mph and a top speed of 150mph. > > > > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html > > > > The top speed isn't a problem because even if the plane can do it you could adjust the prop so it can't. > > > > The LSA max stall speed is 50 mph. Can you shave off 4 mph with vortex generators? I don't know. But remember that stall speed is at 1050 lbs. that is awful low compared to the XL. > > > > The span would be the same as the HDS: 23'. But the total surface area will > be greater than the HDS's 98'ft (compared to 130'ft for the stock HD). > The HD wing is a constant chord at 58" instead of the taper from 58" at the > root to 34" at the tip, so a clip-wing HD will have more surface area than > HDS , hence a lower stall speed than the 54mph of the HDS. > I'm not an engineer, just a mechanic... so anyone who has a better > understanding of the math involved can feel free to correct my aerodynamic > assumptions. > > Interesting idea, I'll be anxious to see how it plays out. > Rick Please note that the original poster said, "The first owner ordered modified 23' wings instead of the original 27' wings." He didn't say anything about cliping the wings. I wasn't aware that Zenith ever offered a shorter wing option other than the HDS wing. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103636#103636 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NTSB Final Report Available
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
One key sentence was, "The main wing aft attach points remained secured to the fuselage in the normal manner." Because, if I remember correctly, there was some talk at the time of the accident that the bolt in the rear spar was missing or loose. Do we know if this was Zenith built spar or a scratch built? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103638#103638 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: LRI Temperature Limitations??
Date: Mar 29, 2007
List: I have the Dwyer MINIHELIC II, PRESSURE GAGE required to make the LRI indicator. I have a few operational questions however: 1. The ambient operating temperature is listed at 20F to 120F. Living in Canada, flying below the 20F temperature is most certainly probable. Will the gage still function properly?? 2. Have the different attitudes experienced during flight affected the gages performance in any way? By the way, this is a great list, fantastic gathering of builders and a wealth of information. The LRI is definately a "must have" for any aircraft, and I learned about it on this list!!!!! Thanks Ron Lalonde 601XL (slowly working on the wings!!) Nova Scotia, Canada _________________________________________________________________ Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
This is an unfinshed kit so the design issue doesn't really apply. When he finishes it he can call it the SuperDuper LSA Special and not mention either Zenith nor 601. naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: > Ray- > Look in the archives. Unfortunately, LSA figures have to be attained as the plane was originally designed. As I understand it, you can't use VGs to bring an airframe into LSA requirements. > I would suggest contacting EAA or (Gulp) the FAA for a final word. > Bill Naumuk > HDS Fuse/Corvair > Townville, Pa > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103648#103648 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NTSB Final Report Available
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
I can't imagine considering all the other things they say, especially in the full narrative, that they would mention that the rear spar was not attached if, in fact, it wasn't. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103655#103655 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I think I fried my CHT
From: george.mueller(at)aurora.org
Date: Mar 29, 2007
I have a couple of questions about installing instruments with a Rotax 912. I accidentally put 12 volts to my VDO CHT gauge and I think I fried it. The needle at rest is now at the max reading. I didn?t notice at first that the CHT gauge requires no power (except for the light) and the + terminal is for the sender. Does anyone know if applying 12 volts to this gauge will fry it? I called VDO tech support about 25 times and never got through. Also, I am not sure to hook up the VDO tach. The back of the tack has a ground, power tab and one sender tab. I hooked up the yellow and white wire from the 912 to the sender tab and the blue and white wire from the 912 to airframe ground, and have power wire and a ground wire going to the back of the tach. I then set the DIP switch to 1=on, 2=off, 3=off. Is this correct? Finally, for anyone with the Skyshops FWF kit, I am not sure how to install the air filter in the cowl. I have a bracket and an aluminum cylinder part and a strip of foam for the air filter install and I am clueless as to how this all goes together. There is nothing on this in the Skyshops instructions. George in Milwaukee 701 almost ready to assemble at the airport ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder workshop at Sun n Fun 2007
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: rlaviation(at)aol.com
Flight Crafters and Zenith Aircraft will be hosting a rudder workshop during Sun n Fun 2007. The dates are April 18th and 19th from 8:00am until 1:00pm. The workshop will be located at Flight Crafters Builder Assistance Center next to the Zephyrhills Municipal Airport. The Center is located approximately 20 minutes from Sun n Fun. The cost is $300 for the rudder kit. If you would like to come by and tour the facility, please do so during the workshop times. There is limited space and we are filling up, quickly. Please contact Russell Lepre' at 813-690-1916 for reservations or more details. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Mark Sherman <msherman95632(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I think I fried my CHT
George.=0A =0ACan't answer your question about the VDO gauge, but my guess is, it is history. I'm at work now but when I get home I will forward some pictures to you of my installation. My drawings from Skyshops show the in stallation. I could fax you a copy if you have a fax machine.=0A =0AMark S .=0A701/912ULS,=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "george.mueller (at)aurora.org" =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0A Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:25:56 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: I think I fried my CHT=0A=0A=0AI have a couple of questions about installing instrum ents with a Rotax 912. I accidentally put 12 volts to my VDO CHT gauge and I think I fried it. The needle at rest is now at the max reading. I didn =A2t notice at first that the CHT gauge requires no power (except for the l ight) and the + terminal is for the sender. Does anyone know if applying 1 2 volts to this gauge will fry it? I called VDO tech support about 25 time s and never got through. Also, I am not sure to hook up the VDO tach. The back of the tack has a ground, power tab and one sender tab. I hooked up t he yellow and white wire from the 912 to the sender tab and the blue and wh ite wire from the 912 to airframe ground, and have power wire and a ground wire going to the back of the tach. I then set the DIP switch to 1=on, 2 =off, 3=off. Is this correct? Finally, for anyone with the Skyshops F WF kit, I am not sure how to install the air filter in the cowl. I have a bracket and an aluminum cylinder part and a strip of foam for the air filter install and I am clueless as to how this all goes together. There is nothing on this in the Skyshops instructions. =0A=0A=0A=0AGeorge in Milwaukee =0A701 almost ready to assemble at the airp =========================0A =0A=0A =0A_________________________________________________________________ ___________________=0ANever miss an email again!=0AYahoo! Toolbar alerts yo u the instant new Mail arrives.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/fea tures/mail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: NTSB Final Report Available
Lots of things of interest here. * 1st, the probable cause, structural failure of the wings for undetermined reasons, is troubling. But, the fire damage to the aluminum structure destroyed any evidence that might have told why the collapse occurred. * 2nd, with an estimated takeoff weight of 1326 lbs, the aircraft was 26 lbs over the stated gross of 1300 lbs. The gross currently listed for 601XL's on the Zenith website is 1320 lbs. * 3rd, this may have been the first flight of the airplane with two persons on board. If so, the extra 200 lb load may have been enough to collapse the wings. * 4th, it is not clear whether the builder, Mr. Hooker, flew the airplane beyond the 40 hr. requirement. The total hours on the airframe is not given. * 5th, while it is not explicitly stated, it appears that this aircraft was built from a kit, not from plans. That should remove the possibility that the wing spars were poorly constructed by the builder. It does not preclude damage to the spars during or prior to construction. * 6th, I find no mention in the report of the use of "hardware store" bolts in the spars which has been suggested in some posts to this group or of loose bolts. * 7th, the empty weight of the aircraft is given as 754.5 lbs which is about 60 lbs greater than the 695 lbs listed for the 601/Jab 3300 on the Zenith website. It would be enlightening to know where the 60 lbs comes from. The dual brakes are one item. My conclusion is that we should be very rigorous in evaluating the weight/benefit ratio of anything we add to the basic airframe. I'm curious what empty weights others builders have ended up with. * 8th, the reports gives the unusable fuel as 3 gal. I know I've seen that number before, but I cannot seem to find it in the information I have. A useful fuel load of 21 gal vs. 24 gal makes me wish I had opted for the 30 gal tanks. * 9th, the elongated rivet holes probably resulted from the forces of impact. However, if they were a construction defect, is it possible that they could have weakened the wing structure? In summary, lots of information here, but it would have been great if they had identified the cause of the wing failure. Then we could make sure that, at least, we try to correct any obvious shortcomings in the design. Terry > >All, > >The NTSB released the final report on the crash from last February in >Modesto, CA that killed 2 people. > >http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060217X00209&key=1 > >"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable >cause(s) of this accident as follows: > >The structural failure of the wings for undetermined reasons." > >Comments? > >Craig Moore A&P >Northern MI >701 builder wannabe ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT Just starting a 601 kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Bob" <rfg842(at)cox.net>
Subject: Axle nuts
Anyone have a source for 1 1/4" /12 wheel pant axle nuts other than A/S, Grove and the RV store? Wicks and Wag Aero apparently do not carry. Thanks, Bob, Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Instrument panels
Dan, Here's how I did it. As you can see, a lot of the .025 has been cut away. My sub-panels are .040, and they are attached with T-nuts from the aviation department of my local Ace Hardware. I painted it with Rustoleum High Performance Enamel (Home Depot). Feel free to ask more. Jay in Dallas "txpilot" wrote: > >I'm looking for input from other builders on exactly how to build the instrument panel. After the basic layout is determined and holes are cut in the supplied .025 panel, are there 'subpanels' attached to the face of the instrument panel? If so, what are the subpanels made of? Are they best attached using screws and nutplates? What about paint? > >If possible, attach pics to any replies (especially of work in progress)! > >Thanks, > > >Dan Ginty >Woodlands, TX >701 builder - 70% complete > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103633#103633 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
Gig, The vortex generators would lower the stall speed, but each individual HDS has to be sorted out on its own stall speed. Some will be slower and some faster, depending a lot on prop pitch, engine, weight and fairings present. Too many factors to make a single stall speed fits all envelope. Some will make SLA and others won't. Larry McFarland Gig Giacona wrote: > > > rickpitcher wrote: > >> Gig Giacona wrote: >> >>> That basically makes it an HDS. The Zenith site says the HDS has a stall speed at 1050 lbs of 54mph and a top speed of 150mph. >>> >>> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html >>> >>> The top speed isn't a problem because even if the plane can do it you could adjust the prop so it can't. >>> >>> The LSA max stall speed is 50 mph. Can you shave off 4 mph with vortex generators? I don't know. But remember that stall speed is at 1050 lbs. that is awful low compared to the XL. >>> >> >> The span would be the same as the HDS: 23'. But the total surface area will >> be greater than the HDS's 98'ft (compared to 130'ft for the stock HD). >> The HD wing is a constant chord at 58" instead of the taper from 58" at the >> root to 34" at the tip, so a clip-wing HD will have more surface area than >> HDS , hence a lower stall speed than the 54mph of the HDS. >> I'm not an engineer, just a mechanic... so anyone who has a better >> understanding of the math involved can feel free to correct my aerodynamic >> assumptions. >> >> Interesting idea, I'll be anxious to see how it plays out. >> Rick >> > > > Please note that the original poster said, "The first owner ordered modified 23' wings instead of the original 27' wings." He didn't say anything about cliping the wings. I wasn't aware that Zenith ever offered a shorter wing option other than the HDS wing. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103636#103636 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument panels
I cut a doubler out of .050" 6061-T6 and had a local machine sop bend the radius for the bottom flange. There is no side or top flange. The doubler nests inside the factory panel nice and snug. The plan is to cut out the final placement instrument holes in the factory supplied .025" panel, file and sand the edges smooth as needed. Then the shapes of the cutouts can be transfered to the .050" doubler and cut out to match. Any errors there would be filing or cutting to slightly larger size. The easier fine cuts in the thinner material will determine the esthetic result on the face of the panel and the less esthetically critical .050" doubler will provide the strength. The two pieces can be riveted or bolted together in empty areas where there are no instrument mounting screws to help hold the two together. Dred ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NTSB Final Report Available
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote: > > > We pay zillions of tax dollars for this? > > Perhaps they should have said the plane crashed because it hit the ground. > > Nothing wrong with the report, they could not determine why it failed, likely because fire consumed all the important evidence of the failure. People who seek answers to every question, some times end up dissapointed. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103715#103715 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Small Vs. Big - small plane builders pep talk ...
From: "hansriet" <hansinla(at)mac.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
[quote="Tim Juhl"]We have a group of six guys on the field that went in together and bought a Cherokee six. All but two of them are very low time pilots and the insurance company won't let them fly as PIC until they get more hours. Needless to say, those of us with lesser planes are having all the fun. Tim Juhl[/quote] I concur. I always thought that flying higher, faster and with more avionics was the bomb. Until I took lessons for my seaplane rating. It was in a beat up C152 with a 150 hp engine, no gyros. In three days we didn't have the radio on one single time (unheard of when you're normally flying in SoCal) and we were never higher than 500 ft AGL. It was the best flying experience in my life. Hans van Riet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103717#103717 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Panel thickness
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Obviously most agree that .025 is too flimsy. If you use .063 material for the panel and a couple of vertical stiffeners behnd the panel between instruments it'll be okay. I used half-by-half aluminum angle (1/8" thickness) riveted with A5s from the front. Looks okay. There were a couple of places where the angle is cut out a bit to clear instruments. The verticals are mounted about 1/3 distance from each side, instrument size and layout dictating actual brace location. The instrument holes were punched with appropriately-sized Greenlee punches. Put the big half of the punch on the back side for this, otherwise you'll have tool marks on the front that even crackle paint may not hide. Bent the bottom flange 2" in a brake, cut the top edge rounded per plans, then had a professional welder TIG a 2-inch-wide strip of .063 across the top. The wider flange & top shouldn't interfere with other items but does add some resistance to wayward knees at the bottom. With the holes cut and vertical braces in place there was no flexing. Once mounted in the airframe it is solid and instruments don't sag from their own weight. If I had it to do again I might build a "frame" only and mount it, then make the flat panel with stiffeners to attach to the frame with Cam Locks or a hinge or chewing gum or something. Attachment points would eat up some panel space. Regards to all, Zed/701/912/BR549/etc Why in God's name would you not want that archived? You don't have to answer it is now. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103733#103733 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "john H" <professor71(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Jacking up Plane
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Hi List Its time to change tires on my 601 and was wondering how people were jacking up and supporting the plane to change the mains. It seems the only place to lift would be under the spars. Anybody done this or have ideas? Thanks John _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Panel thickness
Date: Mar 29, 2007
I'm using the stock, standard, kit-supplied instrument panel. All my instr uments are just hanging out the back. My Transponder and COM Radio are abo ut 6 inches long, so they are braced in the back. Other than that, I haven 't had any problems. I've been flying for about 120 hours now. It sure is easy to over think th ings when you're building. Just cut holes in the stock panel, get finished early and go flying.Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Panel thickness> From: wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.ne t> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:06:50 -0700> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> > >> > Obviously most agree that .025 is too flimsy.> > If you use .063 mater ial for the panel and a couple of vertical stiffeners behnd the panel betwe en instruments it'll be okay.> > I used half-by-half aluminum angle (1/8" t hickness) riveted with A5s from the front. Looks okay.> There were a couple of places where the angle is cut out a bit to clear instruments. The verti cals are mounted about 1/3 distance from each side, instrument size and lay out dictating actual brace location. The instrument holes were punched with appropriately-sized Greenlee punches. Put the big half of the punch on the back side for this, otherwise you'll have tool marks on the front that eve n crackle paint may not hide.> > Bent the bottom flange 2" in a brake, cut the top edge rounded per plans, then had a professional welder TIG a 2-inch -wide strip of .063 across the top. The wider flange & top shouldn't interf ere with other items but does add some resistance to wayward knees at the b ottom.> > With the holes cut and vertical braces in place there was no flex ing. Once mounted in the airframe it is solid and instruments don't sag fro m their own weight.> > If I had it to do again I might build a "frame" only and mount it, then make the flat panel with stiffeners to attach to the fr ame with Cam Locks or a hinge or chewing gum or something. Attachment point s would eat up some panel space. > > Regards to all,> > Zed/701/912/BR549/e tc> > Why in God's name would you not want that archived? You don't have to answer it is now.> > --------> W.R. "Gig" Giacona> 601XL Under C onstruction> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR> > > > > Read thi s topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10373 ====================> > > _________________________________________________________________ It=92s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips. aspx?icid=WLMartagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jacking up Plane
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
If it is an XL I think you could do it under the main gear with two or if you have some help one jack. this might not work as well with and earlier 601. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103740#103740 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon" <cscsail(at)gmavt.net>
Subject: Re: I think I fried my CHT
Date: Mar 29, 2007
George, I also am using VDO gages with my 912. They have a terminal for the sender wire, and a 12 V + terminal and a 12V ground as well as separate terminals + and ground for the light. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: george.mueller(at)aurora.org To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:25 AM Subject: Zenith-List: I think I fried my CHT I have a couple of questions about installing instruments with a Rotax 912. I accidentally put 12 volts to my VDO CHT gauge and I think I fried it. The needle at rest is now at the max reading. I didn't notice at first that the CHT gauge requires no power (except for the light) and the + terminal is for the sender. Does anyone know if applying 12 volts to this gauge will fry it? I called VDO tech support about 25 times and never got through. Also, I am not sure to hook up the VDO tach. The back of the tack has a ground, power tab and one sender tab. I hooked up the yellow and white wire from the 912 to the sender tab and the blue and white wire from the 912 to airframe ground, and have power wire and a ground wire going to the back of the tach. I then set the DIP switch to 1=on, 2=off, 3=off. Is this correct? Finally, for anyone with the Skyshops FWF kit, I am not sure how to install the air filter in the cowl. I have a bracket and an aluminum cylinder part and a strip of foam for the air filter install and I am clueless as to how this all goes together. There is nothing on this in the Skyshops instructions. George in Milwaukee 701 almost ready to assemble at the airport ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Klaus Truemper <klaus(at)utdallas.edu>
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
Hi Ray, You may want to do the following. First, you can install vortex generators, if you are so inclined. This is a quick thing to do. Then, if that does not suffices, you may want to look into the wing root fairings I have designed, seen at http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/wing_root_fairing.html With those fairings, you surely will satisfy the LSA requirements, for the following reasons. For my HDS, the fairings reduced the stall speed at 1020 lbs from 50 KIAS to 42 kts KIAS, which translates to 58 mph versus 48 mph. My guess is that a 1,100 lbs, which effectively is the gross limit for my plane due to CG limitations, I would satisfy LSA. Your clipped wing HD has substantially more wing area than the HDS since the wing does not taper. Hence, stall speed will be even lower. BTW, do not worry about top speed going beyond the LSA requirement. With all the design improvements, my HDS has top speed somewhere around 132 mph, single pilot, 3,000 ft altitude. This is with the 80 hp Rotax 912 UL and with the propeller pitched so that, in level flight, wide open throttle produces 5,400 rpm. Best wishes, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus(at)utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
[quote="Gig Giacona Please note that the original poster said, "The first owner ordered modified 23' wings instead of the original 27' wings." He didn't say anything about cliping the wings. I wasn't aware that Zenith ever offered a shorter wing option other than the HDS wing.[/quote] Ahhh... I see. Good point Gig. The title "601HD wings modified to 23'" had me thinking that these were HD wings modified to 23'. I figured the "modified" part meant that they were clipped. This was discussed on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/601_HD-HDS/ a few months ago. I had talked to one of the ZAC guys (Sebastion?) about doing exactlty that: clipping about 2' from the outboard tip of the HD wing, clipping off the outboard panel and ending the wing at the end of the aileron. Ray, are the ribs all the same size, or are there pairs of progressively smaller ribs as the planform goes outboard? Thanks, Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103766#103766 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Axle nuts
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Looks like McMaster Carr has castle nuts that might meet your needs. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103770#103770 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Wing root fairings
Klaus, For those of us building XLs (with flaps), what do you think would be the effect of adding only the forward part of the wing root fairings? Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23'
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Gig- I can't say you're right, but I think you're wrong. EAA said NO. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HD wings modified to 23' > > > This is an unfinshed kit so the design issue doesn't really apply. When he > finishes it he can call it the SuperDuper LSA Special and not mention > either Zenith nor 601. > > > naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: >> Ray- >> Look in the archives. Unfortunately, LSA figures have to be >> attained as the plane was originally designed. As I understand it, you >> can't use VGs to bring an airframe into LSA requirements. >> I would suggest contacting EAA or (Gulp) the FAA for a final word. >> Bill Naumuk >> HDS Fuse/Corvair >> Townville, Pa >> > > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103648#103648 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Interiors
Date: Mar 29, 2007
All- I can't run a sewing machine, and ma's no better. Links for interiors would be appreciated. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Interiors
Date: Mar 29, 2007
I'm not certain if theses nominal "XL" seats will fit in your HDS. The side-panel fit is even more debatable. Top dollar but I bought some of their factory leftovers on sale and am impressed by the quality. They are good people to work with - they sent me the seats without payment and told me that if they fit I should call back with my CC number. www.skyshops.org/601seatsZ.htm A lower cost alternative is to buy foam from these folks, cut it , form it, glue it and have a local upholstery shop cover them. They have templates for the XL but I don't know what they have for the HDS. Figuring out the dimensions on your own isn't hard. www.seatfoam.com I debate the need for any side panels but if you want them the simple approach is to find some inflammable foam 3/4" thick, cut to fit between the stiffeners and cover with the material of your choice attached with 3M spray adhesive. No sewing needed. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OK2AV8(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Panel thickness
I'm with Phil. Stock, standard, kit supplied with all electric 6-pack. No problems so far. The factory demonstrator has the same with more than 1000 hours. Chris Heintz designs light. You (the manufacturer/owner/maintainer) can chose to add weight. Tim Garrett 601XL/Jabiru 3300 St. Louis flyingwithms.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Rudder Spar Dent
Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR (2) causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a smooth dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of spar). What is your take? Thanks, Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CH701" <701stol(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Rudder Spar Dent
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Hey Tom, Please post Zeniths reply to your question about the dent on this list. Thanks, Todd _____ I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a smooth dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of spar). What is your take? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing root fairings
From: "alex_001" <alex@midland-f3.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
i would like to hear all info about wing root fairings for xl as i am about to make some but if someone has allready done some please contact me. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103824#103824 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Interiors
Jay Bannister in Dallas had a good idea: he built up the foam cushions and modified standard car bucket seat covers. Probably as good as my plane will be!! Bill Naumuk wrote: All- I can't run a sewing machine, and ma's no better. Links for interiors would be appreciated. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
according to your post it is a "smooth dent". I take this to mean that it does not have either a mark at the bottom of the impression or sharp departures at the limits of the depression. If that is so, as I recal, this is under the footprint of the spar flange angle doubler. It might be possible to bump it back to contour without cracking or tearing the material using a stick made from maple with a relatively small radius on the end and a block of pine on the outside as an anvil. This would allow the doubler to lie shear on the inner surface of the flange as designed. Ideally, the hole pattern will straddle this defect. Being so near the tip, is does not see a lot of bending and may not be a critical issue. ZAC will know. Just be cautious if it is near and beyond the end of the doubler. If something were to happen you would not be able to inspect for it... Tom Lutz wrote: Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR (2) causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a smooth dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of spar). What is your take? Thanks, Tom Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jacking up Plane
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I have a CH640 and the following is recommended by Zenith and very simple. For the mains, you just need a padded sawhorse that is a few inches taller than the bottom of the spar at midspan. Bend over and put your upper back on the spar, lift the wing, and slide the padded sawhorse under the wing along a rib rivet line around the wing mid span. Even with the heavier 640 it is pretty easy to lift the plane this way. It's also very stable and is not going to fall over. Working on one side at a time, the amount of force you are putting on the wing is much less than that seen with normal straight and level flight. For the nose, just hook an engine hoist onto the engine hook and lift the front wheel off the ground. Again, with the weight of the rear of the plane counterbalancing the engine weight, you are actually applying less force to the engine hook than you would if you were just lifting the engine alone. It's stable and is not going anywhere. Keep it simple. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103839#103839 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Aluminum is relatively cheap and it looks like you haven't done much work on it. It's probably inconsequential, but why start your build with a main structural part that is defective. I would just get a new one. The old spar will make a great doubler down the road when installing antennas, ELT's etc. so it won't go to waste. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103840#103840 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Panel thickness
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I also did it the way Mr. Maxon did it. No problems. Tony Graziano XL; N493TG; 222 hrs -- From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Panel thickness I'm using the stock, standard, kit-supplied instrument panel. All my instr uments are just hanging out the back. My Transponder and COM Radio are abo ut 6 inches long, so they are braced in the back. Other than that, I haven 't had any problems. I've been flying for about 120 hours now. It sure is easy to over think th ings when you're building. Just cut holes in the stock panel, get finished early and go flying.Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
Thanks for the advice. The dent is 220mm from the top of the spar, so there is no doubler there. Depending on what the engineers at ZAC say, I may just get a new one as Steve suggested. I'll make sure to post with ZAC's response. Tom On 3/30/07, David Downey < planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> wrote: > > according to your post it is a "smooth dent". I take this to mean that it > does not have either a mark at the bottom of the impression or sharp > departures at the limits of the depression. If that is so, as I recal, this > is under the footprint of the spar flange angle doubler. It might be > possible to bump it back to contour without cracking or tearing the material > using a stick made from maple with a relatively small radius on the end and > a block of pine on the outside as an anvil. This would allow the doubler to > lie shear on the inner surface of the flange as designed. > > Ideally, the hole pattern will straddle this defect. Being so near the > tip, is does not see a lot of bending and may not be a critical issue. ZAC > will know. Just be cautious if it is near and beyond the end of the doubler. > If something were to happen you would not be able to inspect for it... > > *Tom Lutz * wrote: > > Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR > (2) causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > > I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a > smooth dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top > of spar). What is your take? > > Thanks, > Tom > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? > > ------------------------------ > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail%0A> > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43910/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail%0A> > > * > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: Cessna Aerobat (was: Apology)
Previous posts: >I used to be on teh Material Review Board at Cessna in the early >80s. The biggest difference between the 150 and the Aerobat >(according to Stress) was that the Aerobats wings had to be >completely free of "standard repairs" and other discrepancies that >usually occur in virtually any build. These "perfect wings" wer >strong enough for the loads from the approved maneuvers. Interesting! > As I understand it, the only difference between a C-150 and an > Aerobat is the grade of a couple of spar bolts. I could care less > about loops, but I intend to aileron roll my HDS. Call me > conservatively stupid. I should also note that Aerobats did have quite a few other strength improvements not easily visible. I'm pretty sure of this, as I recall it from an old Sport Aerobatics magazine article that went into detail. I really can't recall exactly what the changes were, but it was stuff like thickness increases in various structural members, added gussets for stiffness, maybe thicker skins, an extra rib in the tail, etc. Wing struts used the cross section of a larger Cessna, the 172 I think. So while some limited aerobatics may be possible in "regular airplanes", don't think that the Aerobat was just a 150 with a fancy paint job and a bigger sticker price. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jacking Up Plane
Don't make a big thing of this. Get under the wing with your back, shoulder blades on the spar, and lift. It is easy. Get some boxes with a towel on top to put under the spar to raise the wheel a couple of inches off the ground. I have even used strong cardboard boxes. It just isn't very heavy. Your legs are doing the lifting. If a puny 70-year-old can do it, so can you! John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Interiors
I guess it came across blank the last time? Does anyone know why this happens occasionally? This blank was sent between two that went to the same place and showed up just fine... David Downey wrote: Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Interiors Jay Bannister in Dallas had a good idea: he built up the foam cushions and modified standard car bucket seat covers. Probably as good as my plane will be!! Bill Naumuk wrote: All- I can't run a sewing machine, and ma's no better. Links for interiors would be appreciated. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Get your own web address. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it does not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Lutz <tommylutz(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR (2) >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a smooth >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of >spar). What is your take? > >Thanks, >Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
BTW I am not an "anal engineer." I am an electrical engineer that happens to be "anal." Thought I'd clarify before any of you got the wrong ideas. On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: > > A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are > probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts > through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I > am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing > back by close-of-business today. > > On 3/30/07, Juan Vega wrote: > > > > > > > > > if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it > > does not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >From: Tom Lutz < tommylutz(at)gmail.com> > > >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM > > >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > > >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > > > > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment > > OR (2) > > >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > > > > > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a > > smooth > > >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of > > > > >spar). What is your take? > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. On 3/30/07, Juan Vega wrote: > > > if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it does > not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Tom Lutz <tommylutz(at)gmail.com> > >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM > >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR > (2) > >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > > > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a > smooth > >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of > >spar). What is your take? > > > >Thanks, > >Tom > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Tom, if you decide that you need to press out the dent, you can take two pieces of 1/8" extruded aluminum el cheapo angle from Lowes or Home Depot, round the exterior corner of one of them. The round edge must fit the bend radius of the spar. Use the rounded piece on the inside and the unaltered piece on the outside and squeeze the spar between the two with a vise or clamps to press out the dent. Pressing dents out with an appropriate set of dies is always easier than spooning or hammering. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
I just received a response from a ZAC engineer that looked at the photos. He said that the dent is not a big deal, but if I am concerned about it, I can install another doubler in that area. Of course, these are recommendations, and each situation is unique. If you encounter a similar situation, you are best off seeking advice specific to your situation. The following disclaimer at the end of the ZAC e-mail I received illustrates this pretty well: "Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or omissions. Any advise or information that Zenith Aircraft Company gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you. Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or damage as a result of our advise or information supplied. " As always, take advice with a grain of salt, no matter what source it is from. I also learned that ZAC does NOT recommend using a 1/2" drill bit to debur holes, as is presented in the metalworking 101 DVD. I plan to continue construction as-is. Adding a doubler in that location would mean popping the dent out, which I am not sure I can do without causing additional damage. Tom On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: > > BTW I am not an "anal engineer." I am an electrical engineer that happens > to be "anal." Thought I'd clarify before any of you got the wrong ideas. > > On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: > > > > A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are > > probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts > > through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I > > am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing > > back by close-of-business today. > > > > On 3/30/07, Juan Vega wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it > > > does not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >From: Tom Lutz < tommylutz(at)gmail.com> > > > >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM > > > >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > > > >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > > > > > > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment > > > OR (2) > > > >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > > > > > > > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a > > > smooth > > > >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top > > > of > > > >spar). What is your take? > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
That's a good thought -- I may do that. Do you know where can I get 6061-T6 aluminum to make another doubler? I'm not scratch building, so I don't have extra laying around. Tom On 3/30/07, Edward Moody II wrote: > > Tom, if you decide that you need to press out the dent, you can take two > pieces of 1/8" extruded aluminum el cheapo angle from Lowes or Home Depot, > round the exterior corner of one of them. The round edge must fit the bend > radius of the spar. Use the rounded piece on the inside and the unaltered > piece on the outside and squeeze the spar between the two with a vise or > clamps to press out the dent. Pressing dents out with an appropriate set of > dies is always easier than spooning or hammering. > > Dred > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tom Lutz > *To:* zenith-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2007 10:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > > A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are > probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts > through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I > am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing > back by close-of-business today. > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
You will find it in: http://www.aircraftspruce.com depending on the thickness, the minimum would be in 2'X2' or 2'X4'. You will need a bending brake unless you want to create it as a flat doubler. Post the dimension of the doubler you are planning to make and lets see if one of us scratch builder can send you a leftover. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Tail Done. Miami, Florida Tom Lutz wrote: That's a good thought -- I may do that. Do you know where can I get 6061-T6 aluminum to make another doubler? I'm not scratch building, so I don't have extra laying around. Tom On 3/30/07, Edward Moody II wrote: Tom, if you decide that you need to press out the dent, you can take two pieces of 1/8" extruded aluminum el cheapo angle from Lowes or Home Depot, round the exterior corner of one of them. The round edge must fit the bend radius of the spar. Use the rounded piece on the inside and the unaltered piece on the outside and squeeze the spar between the two with a vise or clamps to press out the dent. Pressing dents out with an appropriate set of dies is always easier than spooning or hammering. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: deburing holes
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
When I went through the Zenith Rudder Workshop they showed me both ways. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103944#103944 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Yep, Aircraft Spruce and Specialty online or via catalogue/phone. They stock almost any thickness and sizes dow to 2' x 2'. You may want to stoclk a few different thicknesses in 2' x 4' or even 4' x 4' .There is some expense there but I have gone back to scavenge my little cache of aluminum sheet and angles quite a few times. Just this morning I cut and bent some 6061-T6 to make mounting brackets for my eyeball vents since they are going under the panel rather than in it. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent That's a good thought -- I may do that. Do you know where can I get 6061-T6 aluminum to make another doubler? I'm not scratch building, so I don't have extra laying around. Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Klaus Truemper <klaus(at)utdallas.edu>
Subject: Re: Wing root fairings
Hi, 1. The question about efficiency of the forward portion of the wingroot fairing relative to the rear portion is difficult to answer. My guess is that much of the improvement in low speed behavior (minimum sink rate, stall speed, climb rate with high payload) comes from the rear portion, since it reduces the amount of induced drag. The front portion reduces the extent to which the air above the wing gets compressed by the expanding fuselage. Thus, these are really different effects. For details, see the paper "Finding Hidden Drag" listed on the website http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/wing_root_fairing.html 2. If I were building an XL, I would forget about flaps altogether and instead would add fixed trailing edges and the wing root fairings. This would eliminate the flap mechanism entirely. Maybe, just maybe, somebody will make fairings for the XL, then make molds, and make additional fairings available to others at reasonable expense. It would be a nice modification. Best wishes, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus(at)utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
yeah, but then you need to have a slight depression in the female die and a slightly tighter radius on the male die than the part - and only at the exact location of the dent. If not the part will never get back to nominal contour due to springback issues. Perhaps where this is, outside of the doubler nesting footprint, the matched angles are good enough. Edward Moody II wrote: Tom, if you decide that you need to press out the dent, you can take two pieces of 1/8" extruded aluminum el cheapo angle from Lowes or Home Depot, round the exterior corner of one of them. The round edge must fit the bend radius of the spar. Use the rounded piece on the inside and the unaltered piece on the outside and squeeze the spar between the two with a vise or clamps to press out the dent. Pressing dents out with an appropriate set of dies is always easier than spooning or hammering. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Get your own web address. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Jeff Davidson <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Jabiru Dual Throttles
I've figured most of it out except for a 4 inch long piece of 1/8th x 3/4 inch aluminum. Can anyone tell me what that piece is used for and does anyone have some pictures of the dual throttle kit (firewall side) installed? Tim, I suspect that the piece you are talking about is meant to hold the cable from the middle of the rod across the firewall shelf down to the Bing carby. I didn't use it. I'll send you pictures of my arrangement from home this evening. Mine is a combination of the Zenith design, JabiruUSA's design, and some hints from Larry Mac. Larry most likely will respond too when he reads your post. I'm happy with the way mine turned out. I threw it into the extra parts pile! Jeff Davidson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: deburing holes
"scuffs" are indeed usually OK because they can be blended during a ScotchBrite session. The problem with using a file for deburring is that anyone doing this has a tendency to put gouges of some depth in the details parallel to the fastener line. Those gouges are not very likely to cause a problem in the short run but they are the source of massive problems over time as they are fatigue no-no's. Probably the best way to take care of the problem is by using VERY sharp bits, and using them lubricated. The ever popular Boelube is one choice and what we used at Cessna and Lear Experimental was beeswax - just warm the bit and drill the block every so many holes. Using as many clecos as you own is also smart as the tighter the sheared surface between the details being drilled, the better for fit, burr generation, and everything else. The sharp bit generates cleaner holes with less burrs to start with so you have less worrys about countersinkinghte hoels if you do use the large drill for derurring. If you decide to use a large drill, the 1/2" is way too big because you want the web at the center of the bit to be 75% of the diameter of the hole being deburred or less. For most. holes a 1/4" bit is ample; wrap the shank with a thick build up of masking tape and it is easier to control. If you spend some time with a magnifier and a light, you can learn to feel what is a good deburr and what is a drill bit angled countersink. The bit used for deburring should be very sharp as well and should be spun lightly in the fingers to remove the burr. Stay on the hole axis, normal to the local contour at the hole location. Deburring should remove any material standing proud of the plane of the face drilled - dull drills deflect substantially more materrial out of plane and at a greater diameter. Tom Lutz wrote: Yes. They recommended using a file, and pointed out that scuffs in the aluminum are OK since this needs to be done for corrosion protection application anyway. Greetings Tom, "As always, take advice with a grain of salt, no matter what source it is from. I also learned that ZAC does NOT recommend using a 1/2" drill bit to debur holes, as is presented in the metalworking 101 DVD." Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Big Gee <taffy0687(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal
Tom-- you making a mountain out of mole hill---- no big deal= do nothing, just build the rudder. ZAC has to be careful how they word things due to the nature of their business. Fritz Tom Lutz wrote: I just received a response from a ZAC engineer that looked at the photos. He said that the dent is not a big deal, but if I am concerned about it, I can install another doubler in that area. Of course, these are recommendations, and each situation is unique. If you encounter a similar situation, you are best off seeking advice specific to your situation. The following disclaimer at the end of the ZAC e-mail I received illustrates this pretty well: "Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or omissions. Any advise or information that Zenith Aircraft Company gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you. Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or damage as a result of our advise or information supplied. " As always, take advice with a grain of salt, no matter what source it is from. I also learned that ZAC does NOT recommend using a 1/2" drill bit to debur holes, as is presented in the metalworking 101 DVD. I plan to continue construction as-is. Adding a doubler in that location would mean popping the dent out, which I am not sure I can do without causing additional damage. Tom On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: BTW I am not an "anal engineer." I am an electrical engineer that happens to be "anal." Thought I'd clarify before any of you got the wrong ideas. On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it does not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Lutz < tommylutz(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR (2) >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a smooth >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of >spar). What is your take? > >Thanks, --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I don't know where you are located but if you stop by with the part I will either fix it or remake it for you. How about that? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103985#103985 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: deburing holes
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I use a vixen file that has been prepared for this type of work. Lightly radius the length and ends. That helps prevent the gouging. Also a light touch helps when using the vixen file. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103987#103987 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
dont bother, just build the rudder, by what I see it has not bent the spar, just a ding, the spar just needs to be straight. other than that just build. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Mar 30, 2007 1:28 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > >You will find it in: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com > depending on the thickness, the minimum would be in 2'X2' or 2'X4'. You will need a bending brake unless you want to create it as a flat doubler. Post the dimension of the doubler you are planning to make and lets see if one of us scratch builder can send you a leftover. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Tail Done. > Miami, Florida > >Tom Lutz wrote: That's a good thought -- I may do that. Do you know where can I get 6061-T6 aluminum to make another doubler? I'm not scratch building, so I don't have extra laying around. > > Tom > > > On 3/30/07, Edward Moody II wrote: Tom, if you decide that you need to press out the dent, you can take two pieces of 1/8" extruded aluminum el cheapo angle from Lowes or Home Depot, round the exterior corner of one of them. The round edge must fit the bend radius of the spar. Use the rounded piece on the inside and the unaltered piece on the outside and squeeze the spar between the two with a vise or clamps to press out the dent. Pressing dents out with an appropriate set of dies is always easier than spooning or hammering. > > Dred > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Lutz > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > >A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Interiors
Date: Mar 30, 2007
All- Thanks for your input. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
Ed, Thanks a lot for the advice. I used the technique you described and came out with exceptional results, with the exception of ever-so-slight remaining deformation due to the factors Dave Downey described in a previous e-mail (elastic deformation -- the dent bounced back a little bit). If I didn't put a big red circle in this picture, would you be able to tell? Tom On 3/30/07, Edward Moody II wrote: > > Tom, if you decide that you need to press out the dent, you can take two > pieces of 1/8" extruded aluminum el cheapo angle from Lowes or Home Depot, > round the exterior corner of one of them. The round edge must fit the bend > radius of the spar. Use the rounded piece on the inside and the unaltered > piece on the outside and squeeze the spar between the two with a vise or > clamps to press out the dent. Pressing dents out with an appropriate set of > dies is always easier than spooning or hammering. > > Dred > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tom Lutz > *To:* zenith-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2007 10:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are > probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts > through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I > am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing > back by close-of-business today. > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal
Fritz, I appreciate the point of view you and Juan hold, as well as the other views that have been presented to me. As a first time aircraft builder and a person who has experience with unrelated mission critical hardware, it is in my character to question minute defects and pursue them to the fullest extent that I can until a resolution is found. I can have no question that the structural integrity of the airplane I am building is 100%. That being said, I realize this was a small defect, and that it was probably not a problem, but I wanted a answers from several independent sources before I drew any conclusions. Hind-sight is 20/20, and guess what? You guys are the ones with hind-sight, not me! THANK YOU ALL for responding to my seemingly worthless question. As a first time builder, it means a lot. So far I have been thoroughly impressed with the support of both ZAC and this online community. I've decided, after pressing out the small dent, to finish the rudder without adding an additional doubler. Cheers, Tom On 3/30/07, Big Gee wrote: > > Tom-- you making a mountain out of mole hill---- no big deal= do nothing, > just build the rudder. ZAC has to be careful how they word things due to > the nature of their business. > > Fritz > > *Tom Lutz * wrote: > > I just received a response from a ZAC engineer that looked at the photos. > He said that the dent is not a big deal, but if I am concerned about it, I > can install another doubler in that area. Of course, these are > recommendations, and each situation is unique. If you encounter a similar > situation, you are best off seeking advice specific to your situation. The > following disclaimer at the end of the ZAC e-mail I received illustrates > this pretty well: > > "Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the > advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith Aircraft > Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or omissions. Any > advise or information that Zenith Aircraft Company gives you via any form of > communication is not a guarantee that it will correct your problem. It is > only offered as assistance to you. Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held > responsible for any loss or damage as a result of our advise or information > supplied. " > > As always, take advice with a grain of salt, no matter what source it is > from. I also learned that ZAC does NOT recommend using a 1/2" drill bit to > debur holes, as is presented in the metalworking 101 DVD. > > I plan to continue construction as-is. Adding a doubler in that location > would mean popping the dent out, which I am not sure I can do without > causing additional damage. > > > Tom > > > On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: > > > > BTW I am not an "anal engineer." I am an electrical engineer that > > happens to be "anal." Thought I'd clarify before any of you got the wrong > > ideas. > > > > On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: > > > > > > A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are > > > probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts > > > through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I > > > am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing > > > back by close-of-business today. > > > > > > On 3/30/07, Juan Vega wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it > > > > does not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > >From: Tom Lutz < tommylutz(at)gmail.com> > > > > >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM > > > > >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > > > > >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > > > > > > > > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon > > > > shipment OR (2) > > > > >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > > > > > > > > > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is > > > > a smooth > > > > >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from > > > > top of > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: cowling dimensions?
Does anyone have one of the WW Zodiac nosebowls where they can readily measure it? I need to know the maximum width and maximum height dimensions referencing the spinner face centerline (13" Van's spinner?). Also, how far forward of the zodiac firewall at the upper mounting points is the trailing edge of the bowl where these dimensions were determined? Approximate dimensions within 1/4" are adequate for my use. Thank you. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I couldn't see it with the big red circle. As others told you, it was no big deal but I could tell that it was bugging you as it would have bugged me. You made an excellent fix without going overboard at all. True, some other guy's plane will fly just fine and nobody will know whether or not he straightened out his dings. So what? You know you took time to do it to your satisfaction. Cool huh? Looky what I did today.... farted around for almost four hours to do Naca scoops and eyeball vent mounts Dred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent
Sweet... nice job! On 3/30/07, Edward Moody II wrote: > > I couldn't see it *with* the big red circle. As others told you, it was > no big deal but I could tell that it was bugging you as it would have bugged > me. You made an excellent fix without going overboard at all. True, some > other guy's plane will fly just fine and nobody will know whether or not > he straightened out his dings. So what? You know you took time to do it to > your satisfaction. Cool huh? > > Looky what I did today.... farted around for almost four hours to do Naca > scoops and eyeball vent mounts > > Dred > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cessna Aerobat (was: Apology)
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I thought the aerobat also had only a 31ft span instead of a 33ft span. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104039#104039 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Subject: Re: Another forced landing
Brian, Thankfully everything worked out. How many hours do you have on the engine? Did this come directly from Ram? Bob Spudis In a message dated 3/31/2007 12:01:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I was flying up to Midland from Ray airport yesterday (57D to 3BS) but just short of Frankenmouth, the engine suddenly started running rough and lost 500 RPM. My first thought was "Oh no, not again." I was in contact with Saginaw approach at the time for VFR flight following so I told them I had engine trouble and was going to land at Zehnder field (66G), which by this time was almost directly below me. I made a safe landing on the turf strip and parked the plane. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Tom- Good engineers are conditioned to continually ask "What's wrong with this picture?" The problem is, when there's an anomoly, they instinctively shift to "Find root cause" mode and don't quit until they identify and rectify the problem. This is time consuming. From your first string of posts, I'd say you can throw the 400hr build time out the window. What you have to do to make the best use of time spent is approach anomolies the same way as you would MRB. (For those of you who don't know what Material Review Board is, it's a joint engineering/quality assurance decision of whether non-conforming parts coming off a production line are usable as-is, usable with rework, or should be scrapped). Eventually, you'll gain the experience to make the call on your own 90% of the time. For the other 10%, you'll have to rely on outside sources. 1. If a lister is reliable (i.e. has a flying project with 100's of hours on it or has already worked around an anomoly to the satisfaction of Zenith, EAA, or the FAA) and offers a suggestion, how can you bring up the question of hindsight? He's already been there, done that! 2. You're an engineer. Decide for yourself whether a better approach than what Mexico, Mo. recommends hasn't been offered. Were you aware that one of the guys on the HH DVD was the President of Zenair, Canada? Did you stop to think about what you were trying to achieve? I'm deburring a hole. I want to knock off the burrs while at the same time taking off as little of the "Good" metal as possible. With a shallower cut angle, a 1/2" drill might fit the application better. Think about it! From personal experience, I advise that you don't get complacent but at the same time you don't automatically reject suggestions from sources other than Mexico, Mo. No matter how careful you are, sooner or later, you will fail a construction step and have to rebuild. Just trying to cushion the blow. Good building! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal Fritz, I appreciate the point of view you and Juan hold, as well as the other views that have been presented to me. As a first time aircraft builder and a person who has experience with unrelated mission critical hardware, it is in my character to question minute defects and pursue them to the fullest extent that I can until a resolution is found. I can have no question that the structural integrity of the airplane I am building is 100%. That being said, I realize this was a small defect, and that it was probably not a problem, but I wanted a answers from several independent sources before I drew any conclusions. Hind-sight is 20/20, and guess what? You guys are the ones with hind-sight, not me! THANK YOU ALL for responding to my seemingly worthless question. As a first time builder, it means a lot. So far I have been thoroughly impressed with the support of both ZAC and this online community. I've decided, after pressing out the small dent, to finish the rudder without adding an additional doubler. Cheers, Tom On 3/30/07, Big Gee wrote: Tom-- you making a mountain out of mole hill---- no big deal= do nothing, just build the rudder. ZAC has to be careful how they word things due to the nature of their business. Fritz Tom Lutz wrote: I just received a response from a ZAC engineer that looked at the photos. He said that the dent is not a big deal, but if I am concerned about it, I can install another doubler in that area. Of course, these are recommendations, and each situation is unique. If you encounter a similar situation, you are best off seeking advice specific to your situation. The following disclaimer at the end of the ZAC e-mail I received illustrates this pretty well: "Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or omissions. Any advise or information that Zenith Aircraft Company gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you. Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or damage as a result of our advise or information supplied. " As always, take advice with a grain of salt, no matter what source it is from. I also learned that ZAC does NOT recommend using a 1/2" drill bit to debur holes, as is presented in the metalworking 101 DVD. I plan to continue construction as-is. Adding a doubler in that location would mean popping the dent out, which I am not sure I can do without causing additional damage. Tom On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: BTW I am not an "anal engineer." I am an electrical engineer that happens to be "anal." Thought I'd clarify before any of you got the wrong ideas. On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. On 3/30/07, Juan Vega < amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net > wrote: amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net > if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it does not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Lutz < tommylutz(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR (2) >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a smooth >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Workshop Space / Shed Construction
Ok, so I've decided against a shipping container because my neighbors don't like it and I think it won't be enough room. I would like to put up a large shed in my backyard. I like the fabric idea, but I personally want something more permanent (i.e. metal or wood). I'm looking to you guys for recommendations on the following: -width/height/length: I saw a 16'x16' shed at the local lumber store (84 lumber). Looks like enough space but not enough vertical clearance (beams going overhead ~6.5') -get plans, buy a kit, or buy pre-fab? The shed I saw locally came with all the lumber needed, but building one from scratch may be more economical. This one was ~$2300. -recommended manufacturer / distributors (I'm in North NJ if that makes a difference). Thanks! Tom CH701 - Rudder skeleton fully clecoed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal
I agree with Bill; I am in the process of having a 1/4" counterbore re-worked to change the angle from 180 to 170. I want to try this as a finger spun deburring tool. The advantage is that I can put whatever pilot diameter in it to keep it centered. Bill Naumuk wrote: Tom- Good engineers are conditioned to continually ask "What's wrong with this picture?" The problem is, when there's an anomoly, they instinctively shift to "Find root cause" mode and don't quit until they identify and rectify the problem. This is time consuming. From your first string of posts, I'd say you can throw the 400hr build time out the window. What you have to do to make the best use of time spent is approach anomolies the same way as you would MRB. (For those of you who don't know what Material Review Board is, it's a joint engineering/quality assurance decision of whether non-conforming parts coming off a production line are usable as-is, usable with rework, or should be scrapped). Eventually, you'll gain the experience to make the call on your own 90% of the time. For the other 10%, you'll have to rely on outside sources. 1. If a lister is reliable (i.e. has a flying project with 100's of hours on it or has already worked around an anomoly to the satisfaction of Zenith, EAA, or the FAA) and offers a suggestion, how can you bring up the question of hindsight? He's already been there, done that! 2. You're an engineer. Decide for yourself whether a better approach than what Mexico, Mo. recommends hasn't been offered. Were you aware that one of the guys on the HH DVD was the President of Zenair, Canada? Did you stop to think about what you were trying to achieve? I'm deburring a hole. I want to knock off the burrs while at the same time taking off as little of the "Good" metal as possible. With a shallower cut angle, a 1/2" drill might fit the application better. Think about it! From personal experience, I advise that you don't get complacent but at the same time you don't automatically reject suggestions from sources other than Mexico, Mo. No matter how careful you are, sooner or later, you will fail a construction step and have to rebuild. Just trying to cushion the blow. Good building! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal Fritz, I appreciate the point of view you and Juan hold, as well as the other views that have been presented to me. As a first time aircraft builder and a person who has experience with unrelated mission critical hardware, it is in my character to question minute defects and pursue them to the fullest extent that I can until a resolution is found. I can have no question that the structural integrity of the airplane I am building is 100%. That being said, I realize this was a small defect, and that it was probably not a problem, but I wanted a answers from several independent sources before I drew any conclusions. Hind-sight is 20/20, and guess what? You guys are the ones with hind-sight, not me! THANK YOU ALL for responding to my seemingly worthless question. As a first time builder, it means a lot. So far I have been thoroughly impressed with the support of both ZAC and this online community. I've decided, after pressing out the small dent, to finish the rudder without adding an additional doubler. Cheers, Tom On 3/30/07, Big Gee wrote: Tom-- you making a mountain out of mole hill---- no big deal= do nothing, just build the rudder. ZAC has to be careful how they word things due to the nature of their business. Fritz Tom Lutz wrote: I just received a response from a ZAC engineer that looked at the photos. He said that the dent is not a big deal, but if I am concerned about it, I can install another doubler in that area. Of course, these are recommendations, and each situation is unique. If you encounter a similar situation, you are best off seeking advice specific to your situation. The following disclaimer at the end of the ZAC e-mail I received illustrates this pretty well: "Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or omissions. Any advise or information that Zenith Aircraft Company gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you. Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or damage as a result of our advise or information supplied. " As always, take advice with a grain of salt, no matter what source it is from. I also learned that ZAC does NOT recommend using a 1/2" drill bit to debur holes, as is presented in the metalworking 101 DVD. I plan to continue construction as-is. Adding a doubler in that location would mean popping the dent out, which I am not sure I can do without causing additional damage. Tom On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: BTW I am not an "anal engineer." I am an electrical engineer that happens to be "anal." Thought I'd clarify before any of you got the wrong ideas. On 3/30/07, Tom Lutz wrote: A preliminary response from a Zenith engineer indicated that you are probably right. I was told that unless it is a deep scratch or it busts through the material, it is most likely OK. Being the anal engineer that I am, I sent photos over for a more thorough evaluation. I should be hearing back by close-of-business today. if this is the main rudder spar, its kind of hazzy, just build it it does not look bad, the rudder is so over built a ding is nominal. -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Lutz < tommylutz(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 10:52 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > >Grrrr....mad at myself for either (1) not noticing this upon shipment OR (2) >causing it myself somehow, unknowingly. > >I plan on contacting ZAC tomorrow to show them the pictures. It is a smooth >dent, about 4mm in width. I don't like where it is (~220mm from top of http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Workshop Space / Shed Construction
Date: Mar 31, 2007
I'm currently working on the fuselage in a workshop room which is 15' x 20'. When I have to hang the engine mount and engine on the front, that 20' dimension is going to be a bit on the puny side of comfortable, even with the rudder off. Still at that amount of space accompanied by some juggling of bandsaw, scotchbrite lathe etc. it will work. Hindsight tells me that 25' to 30' in length would be just peachy. The 15' width has been adequate. The rafters are 8' from the floor and that's been fine too. Dred 601XL/Jabiru/canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Venables" <roger(at)nwtradingpost.com>
Subject: RE: NACA scoops
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Dred Nice job. Where did you get those scoops from? Roger From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent I couldn't see it with the big red circle. As others told you, it was no big deal but I could tell that it was bugging you as it would have bugged me. You made an excellent fix without going overboard at all. True, some other guy's plane will fly just fine and nobody will know whether or not he straightened out his dings. So what? You know you took time to do it to your satisfaction. Cool huh? Looky what I did today.... farted around for almost four hours to do Naca scoops and eyeball vent mounts Dred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: NACA scoops
Date: Mar 31, 2007
The molded NACA scoops came from Zenith with the kit. The cutouts were made with a template that I made using some scrap .25" aluminum. The eyeball vents are made by ACS Products Co. model # 10680 available from Aircraft Spruce item # 05-00779. The scat hose adaptors are also from AS item # 13-00833. The flathead allen socket #8-32 scres are stainless and came form Bolt Depot online. Thanks for the kind words, Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Venables To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 10:50 AM Subject: Zenith-List: RE: NACA scoops Dred Nice job. Where did you get those scoops from? Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <allpro2(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Did I miss something?????
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Ok, I was looking at the prices for the 601XL on the web page from Zenith. The price list was last up dated on the 8th of March. My question...NO WHERE, and I mean no where do I see a price for a ROTAX engine..... na-da, nope zilch....No pricing for a firewall forward package for the ROTAX either? So whatzz-sup with that?? Zenith is now in bed with Jabiru only? They featured a FWF package and pricing of the engine for the 3300. The spec's are still there as far as figuring performance and payload for the ROTAX, but no pricing for the ROTAX. Did I miss some big announcement or something? Bill in central Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Did I miss something?????
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Bill- They're redoing the website. Until they get things around, nothing seems to work. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: allpro2(at)bellsouth.net To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Did I miss something????? Ok, I was looking at the prices for the 601XL on the web page from Zenith. The price list was last up dated on the 8th of March. My question...NO WHERE, and I mean no where do I see a price for a ROTAX engine..... na-da, nope zilch....No pricing for a firewall forward package for the ROTAX either? So whatzz-sup with that?? Zenith is now in bed with Jabiru only? They featured a FWF package and pricing of the engine for the 3300. The spec's are still there as far as figuring performance and payload for the ROTAX, but no pricing for the ROTAX. Did I miss some big announcement or something? Bill in central Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Just to ensure proper representation. I am the President of Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. Zenair is a different facility altogether and it=92s president Is Chris Heintz. Though, Zenair has removed itself from the sales aspect of the business, it still is a manufacturing facility and research center. Can-Zac Aviation is the Canadian sales and Canadian Builders Support center. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal 2. Were you aware that one of the guys on the HH DVD was the President of Zenair, Canada? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: Interior sidewalls
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Gang: I am considering alternatives to upholstered sidewalls, and am not a great fan of black ABS. I was thinking of using 1.5 or 2 mm aircraft plywood for this, probably stained somewhat darker than the natural birch finish. Was even thinking of a 1 mm overlay for the panel just for looks. Anyone tried wood before? Any luck? Any other alternatives to upholstery or plastic that people have tried? Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Did I miss something?????
is that why the parts database doesn't work? Bill Naumuk wrote: Bill- They're redoing the website. Until they get things around, nothing seems to work. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: allpro2(at)bellsouth.net To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Did I miss something????? Ok, I was looking at the prices for the 601XL on the web page from Zenith. The price list was last up dated on the 8th of March. My question...NO WHERE, and I mean no where do I see a price for a ROTAX engine..... na-da, nope zilch....No pricing for a firewall forward package for the ROTAX either? So whatzz-sup with that?? Zenith is now in bed with Jabiru only? They featured a FWF package and pricing of the engine for the 3300. The spec's are still there as far as figuring performance and payload for the ROTAX, but no pricing for the ROTAX. Did I miss some big announcement or something? Bill in central Florida href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Mark- I stand corrected. My point was, you've "Been there, done that". Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:52 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal Just to ensure proper representation. I am the President of Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. Zenair is a different facility altogether and it=92s president Is Chris Heintz. Though, Zenair has removed itself from the sales aspect of the business, it still is a manufacturing facility and research center. Can-Zac Aviation is the Canadian sales and Canadian Builders Support center. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 9:13 AM To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent, no big deal 2. Were you aware that one of the guys on the HH DVD was the President of Zenair, Canada? Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Did I miss something?????
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Dave- Ask Zenith. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Did I miss something????? is that why the parts database doesn't work? Bill Naumuk wrote: Bill- They're redoing the website. Until they get things around, nothing seems to work. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: allpro2(at)bellsouth.net To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Did I miss something????? Ok, I was looking at the prices for the 601XL on the web page from Zenith. The price list was last up dated on the 8th of March. My question...NO WHERE, and I mean no where do I see a price for a ROTAX engine..... na-da, nope zilch....No pricing for a firewall forward package for the ROTAX either? So whatzz-sup with that?? Zenith is now in bed with Jabiru only? They featured a FWF package and pricing of the engine for the ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Interior sidewalls
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Yep, have done several panels using burl walnut veneer over alum. Pretty expensive but when you're this far into the program...... I Really like the look and will use it on my 701, nice idea for side panels , might try that as well. John Was even thinking of a 1 mm overlay for the panel just for looks. Anyone tried wood before? Any luck? Any other alternatives to upholstery or plastic that people have tried? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Interior sidewalls
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Andy, my two cents is this: if you do use wood, seal it as well as if it were there for structural purposes. The sunlight under a bubble canopy will not be kind to wood over time. That said, it would be atractive, I'm sure. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Andrew Elliott To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Interior sidewalls Gang: I am considering alternatives to upholstered sidewalls, and am not a great fan of black ABS. I was thinking of using 1.5 or 2 mm aircraft plywood for this, probably stained somewhat darker than the natural birch finish. Was even thinking of a 1 mm overlay for the panel just for looks. Anyone tried wood before? Any luck? Any other alternatives to upholstery or plastic that people have tried? Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Interior sidewalls
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Ah... Ed's right , forgot that part, used about 10 brushed coats of Spar Varnish with UV inhibitor, wet sanded between each one 'till it came out flat. All the planes were hangered but when we were at airshows or on the beach we covered the panel with a towel, just sold the Pacer that I did about 15 yrs ago and it still looked new. It's a BUNCH of work however. JB ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:09 PM Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Interior sidewalls Andy, my two cents is this: if you do use wood, seal it as well as if it were there for structural purposes. The sunlight under a bubble canopy will not be kind to wood over time. That said, it would be atractive, I'm sure. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Andrew Elliott To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Interior sidewalls ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "Timothy Croy" <twcroy(at)gmail.com>
Subject: LPS 3 As Corrosion Inhibitor
Has anyone used the LPS 3 product for corrosion protection instead of zinc chromate, etc.? An A&P mentioned I could use it in the fuselage to protect the metal (I fly in FL). The metal overlap areas have been painted with zinc chromate. For the cockpit, I'm considering painting it in time. Any advice / thoughts appreciated. Thanks, Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ben52425(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Subject: Re: LPS 3 As Corrosion Inhibitor
TIM I USED LPS 3 IN MY 182 FOR 24YRS. IN FLOR.DOES A GOOD JOB THE BAD SIDE OF IT THAT IT SEEPS THROUGH THE SEAMS GOOD NEWS IT DOING IT, S. JOB TO KEEP OUT THE CORROSION. GOING TO DO IT IN MY 601 BEN ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Workshop Space / Shed Construction
I built a shed of my own design using 2x4 lumber, plywood siding and shingle roof. It is anchored over a concrete floor. The shed size is 8x20 due to space limitations in the area of the patio where I need it. In my case, I have a one car garage that I going to be using for storing the subassemblies already made, leaving the shed only for building. Before I started, I did lots of research and considered many options but my main issue issues with all commercially available sheds was not finding one with the exact dimension that I needed and doted with a full width frontal door, so my no compromise solution was to build it myself. My take is that an ideal shed for building an airplane should have: - A concrete floor. - Have a wide front door. - Big enough to build an airplane but small enough to fit where you want to place it - Have good insulation (aluminum sheds are very bad at this) My recommendation would be to buy one if it meet the characteristics above and is within your budget. Otherwise, build it yourself from scratch and save some money. Mine took 9 days of full time work to build. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida Tom Lutz wrote: Ok, so I've decided against a shipping container because my neighbors don't like it and I think it won't be enough room. I would like to put up a large shed in my backyard. I like the fabric idea, but I personally want something more permanent ( i.e. metal or wood). I'm looking to you guys for recommendations on the following: -width/height/length: I saw a 16'x16' shed at the local lumber store (84 lumber). Looks like enough space but not enough vertical clearance (beams going overhead ~6.5') -get plans, buy a kit, or buy pre-fab? The shed I saw locally came with all the lumber needed, but building one from scratch may be more economical. This one was ~$2300. -recommended manufacturer / distributors (I'm in North NJ if that makes a difference). Thanks! Tom CH701 - Rudder skeleton fully clecoed ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another forced landing
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Wow Bryan, I hope to see you at the meeting Thursday. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104207#104207 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Workshop Space / Shed Construction
From: "rgeese" <rgeese1(at)columbus.rr.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
I'm, building my 601XL in a self-built (from plans) 12' by 20' wooden barn with an 8' ceiling an loft. I certainly wouldn't want to go any smaller than that. Everything was completed in the barn and moved into my garage after completion. The fuselage is still in the barn, but I am outgrowing it. I won't be able to install the engine, main gear, or rudder there. I can't complete the canopy installation either because there isn't enough headroom for the tilt. Soon I will be trading spaces with everything stored in the garage. I have a couple hundred photos at this site: http://rgeese.spaces.live.com/default.aspx?_c01_blogpart=myspace&_c02_owner=1&_c=blogpart You may be able to get an idea of the space. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104234#104234 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ricardo Volkweis Lopes <lopes.rv(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Info from XL TD builders
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Hello to all, I am building Zodiac XL TD configuration, ANAC here in Brazil ask me for three view drawings to register the project. I am looking for linear measure between tail-wheel and main gear wheels. Sorry, my english is weak. Attached drawings can show better what I want. Thanks! Zodiac 601 XL/TD -- Ricardo Volkweis Lopes http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Canopy cleaning
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Members, What is the best product any of you know of to clean a Plexiglas canopy. Tracy Stone ZodiacXL Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CH-801 POH
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: j2fortune(at)aol.com
I'm near completion of my CH-801 kit, N63VK and would greatly appreciate any means to avoid reinventing a POH. Thank you in advance for any leg up on this stage of the project. I have PDF versions of various POH's for other aircraft. Would be very apprecative of a editable starting point, best if 801 specific . Jeff St. Petersburg, FL Land, sea, rotorcraft pilot fyi engine: Superior XP360 amphibian: Czech floats photos available ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH-801 POH / tail assembly for sale
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: newbluecrowns(at)aol.com
Jeff, I have an empennage for sale. Do you know anyone that would be interested? It is 90% assembled. -----Original Message----- From: j2fortune(at)aol.com Sent: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 7:28 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH I'm near completion of my CH-801 kit, N63VK and would greatly appreciate any means to avoid reinventing a POH. Thank you in advance for any leg up on this stage of the project. I have PDF versions of various POH's for other aircraft. Would be very apprecative of a editable starting point, best if 801 specific . Jeff St. Petersburg, FL Land, sea, rotorcraft pilot fyi engine: Superior XP360 amphibian: Czech floats photos available ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH-801 POH / tail assembly for sale
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: j2fortune(at)aol.com
sorry no -----Original Message----- From: newbluecrowns(at)aol.com Sent: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 10:14 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH / tail assembly for sale Jeff, I have an empennage for sale. Do you know anyone that would be interested? It is 90% assembled. -----Original Message----- From: j2fortune(at)aol.com Sent: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 7:28 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH I'm near completion of my CH-801 kit, N63VK and would greatly appreciate any means to avoid reinventing a POH. Thank you in advance for any leg up on this stage of the project. I have PDF versions of various POH's for other aircraft. Would be very apprecative of a editable starting point, best if 801 specific . Jeff St. Petersburg, FL Land, sea, rotorcraft pilot fyi engine: Superior XP360 amphibian: Czech floats photos available ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: 601xl gear bending
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Hello group ,has any of the 601XL scratch builders on this site bent their landing gear .If so ,is it a process they would do again or would they buy it from a source .I have priced the blank piece from Trident ,they quoted a price of $213.00 .The price from ZAC is $570.00 for the finished product .Is this something that can be done from home by welding up a fixture and using hydraulic pressure . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herbert Heaton" <heatonhe36(at)msn.com>
Subject: 601xl gear bending
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Wade, I have contemplated the same thing. I calculated the minimum pressure required to bend the 3/4" x 8" 6061-T6 would be about 12 ton. The hydraulic press brake I can use at work is only 9 ton so I've been looking for an alternative solution. I received a quote from Zenith for part #6G3-1 at $720. If you can get it for $570, grab it. The complete gear assembly...Spring Gear, Nose Wheel, Main Wheels, Brakes, Tires, Tubes, Master Cylinders came to $2,000. Consider if you make a bend not quite perpendicular to the edge, you have just scraped $213 of aluminum you can't repair. I think I'll get another quote from Zenith and if they say $570, I'll buy it and save myself a lot of work and frustration. Herb >From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com> >Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl gear bending >Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:23:49 -0500 > >Hello group ,has any of the 601XL scratch builders on this site bent their >landing gear .If so ,is it a process they would do again or would they buy >it from a source .I have priced the blank piece from Trident ,they quoted a >price of $213.00 .The price from ZAC is $570.00 for the finished product >.Is this something that can be done from home by welding up a fixture and >using hydraulic pressure . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas >601XL plans building >Cont. 0200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RE: NACA scoops
please send me the picture, i would ove to see it and it did not come through. -----Original Message----- >From: Roger Venables <roger(at)nwtradingpost.com> >Sent: Mar 31, 2007 11:50 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: NACA scoops > >Dred > > > >Nice job. Where did you get those scoops from? > > > >Roger > > > >From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II >Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:18 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Spar Dent > > > >I couldn't see it with the big red circle. As others told you, it was no big >deal but I could tell that it was bugging you as it would have bugged me. >You made an excellent fix without going overboard at all. True, some other >guy's plane will fly just fine and nobody will know whether or not he >straightened out his dings. So what? You know you took time to do it to your >satisfaction. Cool huh? > > > >Looky what I did today.... farted around for almost four hours to do Naca >scoops and eyeball vent mounts > > > >Dred > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com>
Subject: NACA vents and other goodies
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Fellars, It's been pointed out a few times in the past but...even though you're not building an RV, Vans has a bunch of really neat goodies for our use too. Check out: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=heatvent&product =ventilation-components<http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi ?browse=heatvent&product=ventilation-components> smallie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: canopy cleaning
Date: Apr 01, 2007
What is the best product any of you know of to clean a Plexiglas canopy. Try Lava soap. jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola FL?
From: "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Greetings, Subject pretty much says it all. I've been interested in the 601XL for years, and am once again shopping for a "next project". I'd love to see one of these, and hopefully get the chance to at least sit in one. A ride would be almost too much to hope for, but I sure wouldn't turn one down :D Thanks, Rusty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104377#104377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ram Subaru Conversions...Good? or Bad?
From: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
I was told you guys on the Zenith list might now a little more about the Ram Engines subaru conversions? Here is what I am looking at: I am building a Kitfox and am having trouble deciding on an engine. I could go with the tried and true Rotax 912 but I want a bit more power and performance. A couple weeks ago, I cam across Ram Engines and their subaru conversions. I like the looks of the EA81 conversion they do that reportedly puts out 140 hp. The specs on the engine put it just slightly heavier than the Rotax but with 40 more horsepower! That has got to be good right? Well, I have heard some bad things about subaru conversions but I believe that most of them stem from the NSI conversions that has since gone south. I called and spoke with Ron at Ram Engines and he seemed to be very nice and extremely knowledgable. Now the question: Does anyone have any experience with Ram Engines? How does the engine run? Is the weight as specified? Have there been any major problems with the engine? Etc. I am looking specifically for information about the engines and the experience with Ram Engines from a customer support standpoint. I am hoping you guys may provide more insight as I like the looks of this powerplant. Thanks, Darin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104381#104381 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
From: "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Well, the subject says "near Pensacola FL". Specifically, I'm in Navarre, FL, but I didn't figure too many people would know where that is without a good map :-) Rusty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104384#104384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Sorry. The heading was too long and that part was off the screen. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola FL? > > Well, the subject says "near Pensacola FL". Specifically, I'm in Navarre, > FL, but I didn't figure too many people would know where that is without a > good map :-) > > Rusty > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104384#104384 > > > -- > 8:54 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Do yourself a favor and drive up to visit with William Wynne. He has a flying 601 and is a great fellow to spend time with. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 13brv3 Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola FL? Well, the subject says "near Pensacola FL". Specifically, I'm in Navarre, FL, but I didn't figure too many people would know where that is without a good map :-) Rusty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104384#104384 -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
From: "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Hi Mark, William appears to be in Jacksonville, FL, which is about 5.5 hours away. It would be well worth going there if I had any interest in using a Corvair engine, but that's not part of the plan. Hopefully, there will be something a bit closer. Thanks, Rusty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104399#104399 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Ram Subaru Conversions...Good? or Bad?
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Didn't ,you read all the Emails last time out ? Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Ram Subaru Conversions...Good? or Bad? > > I was told you guys on the Zenith list might now a little more about the > Ram Engines subaru conversions? Here is what I am looking at: I am > building a Kitfox and am having trouble deciding on an engine. I could go > with the tried and true Rotax 912 but I want a bit more power and > performance. > > A couple weeks ago, I cam across Ram Engines and their subaru conversions. > I like the looks of the EA81 conversion they do that reportedly puts out > 140 hp. The specs on the engine put it just slightly heavier than the > Rotax but with 40 more horsepower! That has got to be good right? Well, > I have heard some bad things about subaru conversions but I believe that > most of them stem from the NSI conversions that has since gone south. I > called and spoke with Ron at Ram Engines and he seemed to be very nice and > extremely knowledgable. > > Now the question: Does anyone have any experience with Ram Engines? How > does the engine run? Is the weight as specified? Have there been any > major problems with the engine? Etc. > > I am looking specifically for information about the engines and the > experience with Ram Engines from a customer support standpoint. I am > hoping you guys may provide more insight as I like the looks of this > powerplant. > > Thanks, > > Darin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104381#104381 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: CH-801 POH
Date: Apr 01, 2007
These 601 manuals can be edited: http://www.ch601.org/resources/601OperatingManual-1.zip - Rich Text Format, can be opened in almost any word processor http://www.ch601.org/resources/HDS_P_O_H.doc - Microsoft Word I didn't see any 701 POHs on the www.ch701.com site. -- Craig _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j2fortune(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH I'm near completion of my CH-801 kit, N63VK and would greatly appreciate any means to avoid reinventing a POH. Thank you in advance for any leg up on this stage of the project. I have PDF versions of various POH's for other aircraft. Would be very apprecative of a editable starting point, best if 801 specific . Jeff St. Petersburg, FL Land, sea, rotorcraft pilot fyi engine: Superior XP360 amphibian: Czech floats photos available _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Also if you are serious about this it would behoove you to travel to Sun-N-Fun. Aside from the factory's planes there should be multiple builders and XLs there. Yes, I realize it is 6.5 hour drive. But this is a big investment. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Niceville looks close by (27 miles) - there is this entry in the Zenith builder database: Builder Information: Name: Gary Bean Login Name: Jeepguy Address: 201 Dominica Circle E. Niceville Florida 32578 United States Email: GaryBean45(at)WMconnect.com Tel: (850)897-4018 Building From: ZODIAC Complete Kit Status: Just Started Engine Jabiru 3300 Date Started: 2005 My homepage: Favorite website: Age: 59 Occupation: Retired Employer: US Airways Building 601XL. Finished rudder on April 21,2005 May 29,2005 Finished horizontal stabilizer, except for fiberglass tips. June 28,2005 : Finished elevator and elevator trim. July and August..Time off to attend Airventure 2005. Waiting on delivery of remainder of kit. Sept 21,2005 : Finished wing flaps. Sept 25,2005 : Finished the Ailerons, and aileron trim. Nov 18,2005 Finished right wing. Dec 13,2005 Finished left wing. Latest Updates: Dec 15,2005 : Started on Fuselage. Why I'm building an aircraft: Aviation Background: No prior building experience. Flying since 1969. 20 years in USAF, 13 years with airline. ATP ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Any 701s at Sun n Fun 2007?
From: "KThorp" <kevin(at)medamation.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
I assume Zenith will be there with their full product line. Do you know is any other 701s will be there? -------- Kevin Thorp Charleston, SC former C-150 driver Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104449#104449 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Now theirs a thought Sun-N-Fun! Make sure you try for Thursday and join in on the BBQ Thursday evening after the show. The event runs from 5pm-8pm. So far we have over 155 people registered to attend. The Designer Chris Heintz will also be in attendance. Great way to meet some of the builders and owners. Just go to this link http://www.ch601.org/BBQ/bbq.htm and sign up. This will be your ticket to attend, there is no cost involved, but donations at the event are appreciated as the event is not company sponsored. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:16 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola FL? Also if you are serious about this it would behoove you to travel to Sun-N-Fun. Aside from the factory's planes there should be multiple builders and XLs there. Yes, I realize it is 6.5 hour drive. But this is a big investment. -- Craig -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM -- 3/30/2007 1:15 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CardinalNSB(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Subject: William Wynne
I was at William Wynne's shop in Edgewater, Florida just south of Daytona Beach a few months ago, did he move or does he have another shop in Jacksonville? Skip Simpson ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Subject: CH-801 POH
A few of us 801 builders have a POH but they are for alternative engines . Bill Wilcox has a 0-360 in his. Maybe he can email you the one he made up. I will look to see if mine is still loaded in my puter somewhere. I t might be able to be modified to fit your application. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Craig Payne" wrote: These 601 manuals can be edited: http://www.ch601.org/resources/601Opera tingManual-1.zip - Rich Text Format, can be opened in almost any word pr ocessorhttp://www.ch601.org/resources/HDS_P_O_H.doc - Microsoft Word I d idn't see any 701 POHs on the www.ch701.com site. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-s erver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j2fortune(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH I'm near completion of my CH-801 kit, N63VK and would greatly appreciate any means to avoid reinventing a POH. Thank you in advance for any leg up on this stage of the project. I have PDF versions of various POH's for other aircraft. Would be very apprecative of a editable starting po int, best if 801 specific . JeffSt. Petersburg, FLLand, sea, rotorcraft pilot fyiengine: Superior XP360 amphibian: Czech floatsphotos available href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matro ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ===================== A few of us 801 builders have a POH but they are for alternative e ngines. Bill Wilcox has a 0-360 in his. Maybe he can email you the one h e made up. I will look to see if mine is still loaded in my puter somewh ere. It might be able to be modified to fit your application.

Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "Craig&n bsp;Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:

These 601 manuals can be edited:

http://www.ch601.org/resources/601OperatingMa nual-1.zip - Rich Text Format, can be opened in almost any word processor

http://www.ch601.org/resources/HDS_P_O_H.doc> - Microsoft Word

I didn't see any 701 POHs on the http://www.ch701.com/">www.ch701.com site.

&nbs p;

-- Craig

From: owner-zenith-list-server@matro nics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j2fortune(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:29 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: CH -801 POH

I'm near completion of my CH-801 kit, N63VK and would greatly apprecia te any means to avoid reinventing a POH.

Thank you in advance for any leg up on this stage of the project.&n bsp; I have PDF versions of various POH's for other aircraft. Woul d be very apprecative of a editable starting point, best if 801 specific .

Jeff

St. Petersburg, FL

Land, sea, rotorcraft pilot

fyi

engine: Superior XP360

amphibian: Czech floats

photos available

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.ma tronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com< /A>
======================== =========== ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List> ======================== =========== tronics.com ======================== ===========

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: William Wynne
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
He also works out of his home. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104464#104464 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Check in with your local EAA chapter. I did just that and was able to fly right seat with an instructor in the left. The 601XL is a very predictable aircraft with good crosswind control. It was blowing 17 and gusting to 25k on the day we flew, all the landings (5) were crosswind. After the flight I called Mexico, MO and placed an order. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104467#104467 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL? Hi Rusty, I'm in Rayne, LA which is about 5 - 6 hours to your west down I-10 (15 miles past Lafayette). That's definitley not a short drive either but you are welcome to visit if you find yourself driving out this way for other reasons. I'm building a 601XL with a Jabiru 3300 and a Sensenich composite GA prop. I'm working the the #!@*%&!!! canopy at this point. I'm still hoping to have it flying by the end of the year but you know how that goes. Ed Moody II ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Canopy Cleaning
We have tried a number of "aircraft" (i.e. expensive) waxes and polishes for Plexiglass. Then, people at the Waterloo Airport put us on to Nu Finish (Reed-Union Corp., Chicago), an ordinary car polish in an orange squeeze-bottle container, which works MUCH better than anything else. We have used it for 3 years. It is cheap. Others around here have used it longer; it does not produce any discolouration. We tend to use it with an old towel. In Canada, it is sold in Canadian Tire Stores, but I believe it is very common in the U.S. They also make Nu Finish Scratch Doctor (which I bought for my car), but I have not tried it on Plexiglass because I don't have any scratches in my 601 canopy; it works well on car clear coat paint. Nu Finish also works well on polycarbonate, which I used for the landing-light lenses in the wingtips. John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Waterloo. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying or fairly complete 601XL projects near Pensacola
FL?
From: "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Thanks for the additional comments. Can't make SNF this year, so that's not an option. I've been through the builders list at Zenith before, and tried to contact the builders listed in Niceville, and Pensacola. This has been about a year ago, and nothing really came of it. I suppose I could try again, but my hope was that someone on the list/forum would be close by. I heard about one other XL builder in the Pensacola area via an EAA club contact, and I'm trying to get in touch with him. They're supposed to be fairly far along with the project, so it might work out perfectly. Ed, thanks for the offer. I happen to know right where Lafayette is, since I used to go there to work on an MRI scanner. I don't cover that area for work anymore, so I don't think I'll be heading your way anytime soon. Good luck with your project. I can see that canopies are never fun, regardless of the type of plane :-) Cheers, Rusty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104484#104484 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck & Lana Maggart" <cmaggart(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Workshop Space / Shed Construction
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Tom, I built my 601XL in a 20'x16' shop. It was adequate for building, but I had to store the wings in my house while building the fuselage. One thing to watch is the overhead clearance when you install the canopy. It requires 9'1" height to open my canopy. Chuck, XL/Jabiru ready for final assembly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
Subject: 701 Inspection Plates
Date: Apr 02, 2007
List: I am close to attaching my rear fuselage side skins on my 701 but would like to drill the holes for inspection plates before I do so. I am interested in any suggestions from those of you who have installed inspection plates in the rear fuselage as to where they should be located. Thank you for any suggestions. Stan Challgren N701VG (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: Jim Norton <norton(at)optonline.net>
Subject: building a shed...
Tom, Building the shed from scratch is much more economical than building the shed from kits. The material list also helps you to buy the materials as you need them, or to take advantage of any sales or discounts on stuff you will need later. (Whenever you are in Home Depot ask someone in the lumber department what's on the "cull cart" . As to building a higher roof, think in terms of putting the entire structure on a 2 foot or so base - such as laying two courses of cement block underneath the outside wall. Then the entire structure will be 16" higher using 8" blocks. The only adjustment would be the door will have to lowered. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: deburing holes
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Gig Giacona wrote: > When I went through the Zenith Rudder Workshop they showed me both ways. In my best practices guide from Zenith they say you can use a large drill. I don't anymore though. I use die grnider with a Scotch-Brite pad or in limited in work area, a file laid flat. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104514#104514 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Filler Neck Woes
I have enjoyed reading this thread. When I did mine, the system was still not well though out. The filler necks could not screw down deep enough into the female fittings on the tanks to make contact with the LE skins. That was because they had a brain jam in the design/fabrication dept. and they were welding the female fittings on the outside (the top) of the tank skin. I had to bevel the female fittings by myself (freehand) then clean the threads with a wire brush as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. After working through the problem, I called the factory to suggest to the brothers Heintz that they get the tanks made with the female fitting welded inside the tank (under the top skin of the tank) so that the filler neck woudl have more room to screw down before bottoming out. I was told that they had just begun doing that....... I was just a bit too early to get that update. No way to avoid that sort of cosmic coincidence...... manure occurs. Dred ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ram Subaru Conversions...Good? or Bad?
From: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Joe, Yes and they were very helpful but that was on the engines list and I was told to try it on the Zenith list as there are a bunch of guys flying them. Darin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104554#104554 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: deburing holes
Date: Apr 02, 2007
I generally use a drill bit somewhat larger than the hole and just turn it back and forth between my fingers just enough to remove the burrs. Not enough to chamfer the holes. I found this faster than using the commercial de burring bits. Occasionally I would use one of the inside deburring tools when getting at the back of the hole was either difficult or down right impossible. Deburring with a drill is awkward and there is a good chance of chamfering a hole. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ashontz > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:26 PM > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: deburing holes > > > > > Gig Giacona wrote: > > When I went through the Zenith Rudder Workshop they showed > me both ways. > > > In my best practices guide from Zenith they say you can use a > large drill. I don't anymore though. I use die grnider with a > Scotch-Brite pad or in limited in work area, a file laid flat. > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104514#104514 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Filler Neck Woes
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Any one know where to get replacement O rings for the Zenith Locking fuel caps?? Who makes the actual plastic cap? Chris.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104594#104594 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Canopy Cleaning
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Been using that "NU FINISH poly wax" on my motorcycles for years. Works great on the whole bike, including the windshield. I normally get by with one application in the spring to get through the whole riding season. I ride about 10 to 15k miles each year. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104626#104626 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: MVP (Major Visual Progress)
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Hi Guys: Having completed my latest batch of LRI probes and mailed them all out (thanks to all the buyers), I got back to work on the 601. See the picture below for some Major Visual Progress. I've burned through my second can of Nuvite F9 and still have one wing to polish. Enjoy: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/web/4_2_07_Left_Wing.JPG Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Subject: Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center
Doug, This is how I did mine Bob Spudis N701ZX/912S ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center
From: "Kemter" <kemter(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Check out Larry Martin's Skyhawg page: Jim K. 701 construction on hold while deployed to Afghanistan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104653#104653 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Peter Chapman <pchapman(at)ionsys.com>
Subject: Re: Cessna Aerobat
At 23:55 30-03-07, it was written: >I thought the aerobat also had only a 31ft span instead of a 33ft span. This is straying from Zeniths, but a 1982 152 Aerobat manual that I happen to have shows a 33 ft span, plus or minus a few inches depending on the wingtips fitted. So Aerobats don't seem to be "clipped" compared to their non-aerobatic predecessors. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: deburing holes
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT(at)networkrail.co.uk>
Dear List I use a hand countersink which is a rose countersink bit in a plastic handle and cost equivalent of $8 in UK. Only the slightest pressure is required leaving a hole perfectly de-burred without risk of damage to the face of the sheet. Works on 4130 but a little more pressure required. I works for me. Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 02 April 2007 23:23 Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: deburing holes I generally use a drill bit somewhat larger than the hole and just turn it back and forth between my fingers just enough to remove the burrs. Not enough to chamfer the holes. I found this faster than using the commercial de burring bits. Occasionally I would use one of the inside deburring tools when getting at the back of the hole was either difficult or down right impossible. Deburring with a drill is awkward and there is a good chance of chamfering a hole. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ashontz > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:26 PM > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: deburing holes > > > > > Gig Giacona wrote: > > When I went through the Zenith Rudder Workshop they showed > me both ways. > > > In my best practices guide from Zenith they say you can use a > large drill. I don't anymore though. I use die grnider with a > Scotch-Brite pad or in limited in work area, a file laid flat. > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104514#104514 > > > > > > > > > > > Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. **************************************************************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. Network Rail Infrastructure Limited registered in England and Wales No. 2904587, registered office 40 Melton Street London NW1 2EE **************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe" <joe(at)kfiz.com>
Subject: Bailing out of a 601!
Date: Apr 03, 2007
My friend Lee had a Cessna 150 Aerobat and I can remember seeing some sort of quick release door handle on the inside that would remove the door from the hinges in flight to make it easier for a parachute jump. What in the world would you do in a 601 XL if you had to bail out in a hurry? Has anyone ever bailed out of a 601? I remember going up with Lee and betting him a steak dinner that he couldn't make me sick. I wound up treating at Ponderosa that night. I don't know much about the legality of aerobatics because I like to fly almost straight and level, but for the guys who like that kind of flying would it be worth it to figure out some kind of a hinge pin system that would release the canopy from it's hinges in case a bail out was needed? Do the FAR's require a parachute when doing aerobatics? I have nothing against that kind of flying, but life is too great and too short to take unnecessary chances. Joe in Oshkosh 601XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Watkin" <gwa26895(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Making an LRI probe
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Hi John, I am building a 701 and saw your mail on the Matronics. I livein Darwin Australia and was wondering if you have any probes left. If not are you making more and how much are they. Cheers Gordo. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bolding To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:11 PM Subject: e: xxx Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: Re: Making an LRI probe OOPS, last message was not for the list, need to wake up before I hit the send key. Also wrong pic. Might as well correct for everybody. First batch of probes went in 3 hrs. another 50 on the way, If interested send an email and I'll notify you priviatly. All that have emailed so far are on the list. Sorry for the confusion John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: deburing holes
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Simplicity is the key in these small tasks. Over-thinking is the enemy. I used a 1/4 inch bit, straight from the hardware store, spun in the finger s supplied the Lord and my Momma. For pieces that won't show, like the ins ide of a skin, it's quicker to run a file over all the holes at once. Work s like a charm and no fancy tools to buy.Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey 125 hours - Knocking the rust off my flying skills. > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: deburing holes> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 08:46 orkrail.co.uk>> > Dear List> > I use a hand countersink which is a rose cou ntersink bit in a plastic> handle and cost equivalent of $8 in UK.> > Only the slightest pressure is required leaving a hole perfectly> de-burred with out risk of damage to the face of the sheet. Works on> 4130 but a little mo re pressure required.> > I works for me.> > Malcolm Hunt> CH601XL plans bui lder in England> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-zenith-list-serv er(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys> Sent: 02 April 2007 23:23> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: deburing holes> > --> Zenith-List message pos ted by: "Noel Loveys" > > I generally use a drill bit somewhat larger than the hole and just turn> it> back and forth between my fingers just enough to remove the burrs. Not> enough to chamfer the holes. I found this faster than using the> commercial> de burring bits. Occasional ly I would use one of the inside deburring> tools> when getting at the back of the hole was either difficult or down right> impossible. Deburring with a drill is awkward and there is a good chance> of> chamfering a hole.> > N oel> > > > > -----Original Message-----> > From: owner-zenith-list-server@m atronics.com > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ashontz> > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:26 PM> > To: zenith-list@matro nics.com> > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: deburing holes> > > > > > --> Zenith- List message posted by: "ashontz" > > > > > > Gig Giacona wrote:> > > When I went through the Zenith Rudder Workshop they showed > > me both ways.> > > > > > In my best practices guide from Zenith they say y ou can use a > > large drill. I don't anymore though. I use die grnider wit h a > > Scotch-Brite pad or in limited in work area, a file laid flat.> > > > --------> > Andy Shontz> > CH601XL - Corvair> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here:> > > > http://forums.matro nics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104514#104514> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your attention is drawn to the fact that this em ail originated from a> source external to Network Rail.> > > > ************ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************> The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure.> > This emai l should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, n or may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is > not an original intende d recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then > delete the email and any copies from your system.> > Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clear ly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail.> > Network Rail Infrastructure Limited registered in England and Wales No. 2904587, registe red office 40 Melton Street London NW1 2EE> ******************************* *************************************************************************** =======> > > _________________________________________________________________ Live Search Maps ' find all the local information you need, right when yo u need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: deburing holes
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "David Brown" <dbrown(at)avecc.com>
I take a fine file, break off about a one inch piece, slightly radius all sides and corners, slide it around like a hockey puck. Works great. David I generally use a drill bit somewhat larger than the hole and just turn it back and forth between my fingers just enough to remove the burrs. Not enough to chamfer the holes. I found this faster than using the commercial de burring bits. Occasionally I would use one of the inside deburring tools when getting at the back of the hole was either difficult or down right impossible. Deburring with a drill is awkward and there is a good chance of chamfering a hole. Noel > > In my best practices guide from Zenith they say you can use a > large drill. I don't anymore though. I use die grnider with a > Scotch-Brite pad or in limited in work area, a file laid flat. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MVP (Major Visual Progress)
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.CO wrote: > Hi Guys: > > Having completed my latest batch of LRI probes and mailed them all out > (thanks to all the buyers), I got back to work on the 601. See the picture > below for some Major Visual Progress. I've burned through my second can of > Nuvite F9 and still have one wing to polish. > > Enjoy: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/web/4_2_07_Left_Wing.JPG > > Scott Laughlin > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > > Looking good Scott! I flew from WJF to APV over the weekend to have a look at a Zodie that's hangared there. Nice plane, beautiful paint job. When I returned to WJF, there was another good-lookin' Zodie 601HDS parked on the ramp in front of the restaurant. A polished jewel with a bright red nose! Gorgeous! My poor ol' bird is still flying around mostly raw, with a little paint on the nose and tail. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104693#104693 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/shine_132.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/2zees_323.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
I think we'd probably all be surprised how you could in fact get out of a 601 if you had to. Unlatch and stand up might work. I'm not saying you wouldn't get banged up but I think you would be able to get out. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104700#104700 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MVP (Major Visual Progress)
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
You are going to go blind flying that thing Scott. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104702#104702 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: LRI probe
hi list i am installing my LRI system (probe from Scott) and wonder where the proper location on the wing should be. i am installing it on the outboard surface of the wing rib at the baggage locker location. i can then adjust it through the lightening hole in the baggage compartment. my question is how far back from the main wing spar should i make the hole. scott has some pictures on his site, but rather than guess, has anyone acturally figured out the best place to put it. i think i read somewhere, that it should be at 52 degrees from the bottom of the wing. i know this is the starting point, but maybe i have this wrong john butterfield 601 xl corvair torrance, ca Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center
Another solution to the position problem would be to install a switch in the power output to the motor that would be used as a system enable. That way if the controller did get scrambled, it would be unable to output to the motor. Simply flip the switch on as part of your downwind check. Very good point Dino Doug MacDonald --- Dino Bortolin wrote: > I bought the 4" actuator to use on my XL, but I > decided against buying the > controller. If any of the wires to the potentiometer > in the actuator go open > for any reason, the feedback voltage will be wrong > and the controller will > perceive an error between the commanded position and > the actuator's current > position. Unless the controller is specifically > designed for this situation, > it will attempt to eliminate the position error and > drive the actuator to > either the fully retracted or fully extended > position. Maybe someone on the > list who has the controller would like to test it > and find out what it will > do. I haven't tried one to verify my speculation. > For my plane I decided > that a simpler toggle switch will do the job, > doesn't have this potential > failure mode, and will fit on the control stick if I > want to mount it there. > > If you'd like an indicator for the flap position, > you can wire the feedback > pot to a Ray Allen indicator, or to a spare analog > input on an engine > monitor. I know that the Dynon engine monitor can be > configured for a > 'flaps' bar graph display. Others probably can too. > > Regards, > Dino Bortolin > La Salle, Ontario > Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LRI probe
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
John, you ask for the "best" position for the probe and I really can't say, I can tell you though where I located mine and that it works well there. I located it directly behind the main spar, out board of the pitot tube. As such, when installed the end of the probe extends slightly ahead of the spar under the wing in clean air. Good luck, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com Sent: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Zenith-List: LRI probe hi list i am installing my LRI system (probe from Scott) and wonder where the proper location on the wing should be. i am installing it on the outboard surface of the wing rib at the baggage locker location. i can then adjust it through the lightening hole in the baggage compartment. my question is how far back from the main wing spar should i make the hole. scott has some pictures on his site, but rather than guess, has anyone acturally figured out the best place to put it. i think i read somewhere, that it should be at 52 degrees from the bottom of the wing. i know this is the starting point, but maybe i have this wrong john butterfield 601 xl corvair torrance, ca Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Gig, the thought scares the hell out of me, but I suppose if you inverted and pushed the stick forward in a negative G, popped the top and un buckled you might just fall out. Course, if you had enough control to do this why not land ? Maybe if flame is an issue it might be a terminal option. Most of us don't where a parachute. My bigger concern would be how to exit if inverted in the mud and more likely to happen. Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net Sent: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:43 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! I think we'd probably all be surprised how you could in fact get out of a 601 if you had to. Unlatch and stand up might work. I'm not saying you wouldn't get banged up but I think you would be able to get out. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104700#104700 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MVP (Major Visual Progress)
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Hey Scott, Ya wanna use my welding goggles for the test flights? Looking good! -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104718#104718 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
I can't remember where I read it, but I've been under the impression that an essential item for the toolkit for any aircraft with an upward opening canopy is a small rock hammer, e.g., http://www.amazon.com/American-Science-Surplus-ROCK-HAMMER/dp/B000JSA77O The hammer must very securely mounted in the cockpit, in a place that you can reach while hanging upside down in your seat belt. I plan to have one in my XL. Terry > >Gig, the thought scares the hell out of me, but I suppose if you inverted >and pushed the stick forward in a negative G, popped the top and un >buckled you might just fall out. Course, if you had enough control to do >this why not land ? Maybe if flame is an issue it might be a terminal >option. Most of us don't where a parachute. My bigger concern would be >how to exit if inverted in the mud and more likely to happen. Best of >Luck, Bill of Georgia > > >-----Original Message----- >From: wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:43 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bailing out of a 601! > > >I think we'd probably all be surprised how you could in fact get out of a >601 if >you had to. Unlatch and stand up might work. I'm not saying you wouldn't get >banged up but I think you would be able to get out. > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT Just starting a 601 kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: For 701 Builder's eyes only....
Date: Apr 03, 2007
The next release in the "Building your Zenith CH701" series has just been released: CONTROLS. Many, many thanks to the supporters of this series as you all have been an inspiration for keeping it going! http://homebuilthelp.com/CH701Controls.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Dino Bortolin" <dbortol(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center
You could do that, and if you catch a runaway in time, you can stop if from going any further. But you wouldn't be able to bring it back, unless you put in another switch to override the controller. At which point, I think it has turned the elegantly simple into the overly complex. But, that's the beauty of homebuilts - everyone is free to make it any way that suits them. I still like a DPDT toggle switch... Dino Bortolin On 4/3/07, MacDonald Doug wrote: > > > Another solution to the position problem would be to > install a switch in the power output to the motor that > would be used as a system enable. That way if the > controller did get scrambled, it would be unable to > output to the motor. Simply flip the switch on as > part of your downwind check. > > Very good point Dino > > Doug MacDonald > > --- Dino Bortolin wrote: > > > I bought the 4" actuator to use on my XL, but I > > decided against buying the > > controller. If any of the wires to the potentiometer > > in the actuator go open > > for any reason, the feedback voltage will be wrong > > and the controller will > > perceive an error between the commanded position and > > the actuator's current > > position. Unless the controller is specifically > > designed for this situation, > > it will attempt to eliminate the position error and > > drive the actuator to > > either the fully retracted or fully extended > > position. Maybe someone on the > > list who has the controller would like to test it > > and find out what it will > > do. I haven't tried one to verify my speculation. > > For my plane I decided > > that a simpler toggle switch will do the job, > > doesn't have this potential > > failure mode, and will fit on the control stick if I > > want to mount it there. > > > > If you'd like an indicator for the flap position, > > you can wire the feedback > > pot to a Ray Allen indicator, or to a spare analog > > input on an engine > > monitor. I know that the Dynon engine monitor can be > > configured for a > > 'flaps' bar graph display. Others probably can too. > > > > Regards, > > Dino Bortolin > > La Salle, Ontario > > > > > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! > Games. > http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
I agree most of us don't fly with a parachute though I have thought about doing so on the first few flights. And fire would be my primary concern and one of the few that bailing out would be the best option. With a major structural failure the aircraft is going to probably spinning and twisting in such a way that getting out isn't an option in any aircraft. Engine out just land it on the softest and cheapest thing you can find. But a fire that would not give me time to land before burning up. I'd rather jump without a chute. Morgan Hunter who built and I think designed the Corvair Personal Cruiser with it's forward opening canopy was wearing a chute when he flew into WW Corvair College 10. Just for the record I'm not saying I think you need a chute in the 601 but I have thought about it. japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: > Gig, the thought scares the hell out of me, but I suppose if you inverted and pushed the stick forward in a negative G, popped the top and un buckled you might just fall out. Course, if you had enough control to do this why not land ? Maybe if flame is an issue it might be a terminal option. Most of us don't where a parachute. My bigger concern would be how to exit if inverted in the mud and more likely to happen. Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia > > > -- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104746#104746 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Fuel tank dip stick
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Members, I have checked the actives and can find nothing about a fuel tank dip stick for the standard 12 gallon tank used in the Zodiac601XL. If any of you have made one up I would like to have enough information to make one for myself to include gallons or fractions thereof per inch in the stick. Some weeks ago I asked for a check list for pre-flight and got several which I used to develop my own and one of the list items is dip the fuel tanks since gauges are not always accurate. Tracy Stone ZodiacXL Harker Heights, Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Fuel tank dip stick
Date: Apr 03, 2007
A fuel dip stick is pretty simple to make. I made mine from a piece of oak 3/4 inch wide by 3/16 inch thick by 12 inches long. I drained my tanks and the proceeded to fill them a gallon at a time. After each gallon, I inserted the stick (holding it against the rear of the filler opening to try and insure the stick went in vertically) and drew a line in pen and labeled it at the top of the wetted area on the stick. Be advised that you probably will not register any wetness on the stick until you have about 2 1/2 to 3 gallons in the tank. I started my markings at about 3 gallons. Continue the process until you have the tank filled. That'sabout it George May 601XL 912s-----59 hours >From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com> >Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Zenith list" >Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tank dip stick >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:14:43 -0500 > >Members, > I have checked the actives and can find nothing about a fuel tank dip >stick for the standard 12 gallon tank used in the Zodiac601XL. If any of >you have made one up I would like to have enough information to make one >for myself to include gallons or fractions thereof per inch in the stick. > Some weeks ago I asked for a check list for pre-flight and got >several which I used to develop my own and one of the list items is dip the >fuel tanks since gauges are not always accurate. > >Tracy Stone >ZodiacXL >Harker Heights, Tx _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Timothy Croy" <twcroy(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: LPS 3 As Corrosion Inhibitor
Thanks Ben, Tim On 3/31/07, Ben52425(at)aol.com wrote: > > TIM > I USED LPS 3 IN MY 182 FOR 24YRS. IN FLOR.DOES A GOOD JOB > THE BAD SIDE OF IT THAT IT SEEPS THROUGH THE SEAMS > GOOD NEWS IT DOING IT, S. JOB TO KEEP OUT THE CORROSION. > GOING TO DO IT IN MY 601 > BEN > > > ************************************** > See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fw: canopy notes on install
-----Forwarded Message----- >From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> >Sent: Apr 2, 2007 9:06 PM >To: zenith-list-request >Subject: canopy notes on install > >Y'all: > >well as they say in this fun hobby of ours, I am at the point where I am 95% complete, and I feel like I have 95% to go! Wings are off to the painter since that will take 2 weeks to get done. I am now complete on the Jabiru Pacific FWF install for the exception of the oil cooler and the muffler. I have to send the muffler out to get bent or, cut due to the fact that the muffle on the two pipe exhuast hit the cowl. Easy fix, just throw money at it. > >The big time drain has been the canopy. I urge everyone to get the "get'r done" itch out of your system before tackling this part of the project , since you want to TAKE YOUR TIME. PAtience I learned on workinng the canopy is key to a really nice job or a job that the paint hides lots of mistakes. The recommendation I make to you friends out there, is to pull the DOs and Don'ts sheet from the LP plexyglass manufacturer. It basically says, take your time when drilling the hole, let the drill bit do the work. I invested in having the 1/8 and 5/16 bits filed to a 0 degree angle so that you are not "carving the drill hole but scraping the drill hole. I high speed drill with good control is key. Start with a 1/16 pilot drill bit ( prepped by 0 angling the tooth) then startt on the 5/16th. When you drill the glass, the shards should look like powder, remember you are scraping the hole open. Think of a hand held flat open and stroking water. the same effect. Toward the end of the hole being drilled, easy way up on any pressure.. A good suggestion is to put a 2x4 block on the back side . When complete with a clean drilled hole, do your self a favor and take a 6/16th dremmel grinder stone and smooth out the hole, this cleans the burrs and removes the cut marks that can catch and start a crack. the cone file on the dremmel actually melts the glass somewhat smooth. smells bad but look good. Look at your timerman washers at this point. notice they are bigger that the 5/16 hole. Take advantage and make the hole bigger that the 5/16 so there is play for the washer to move around. where cracks occur is not mostly in the drilling but when pressure is applied with the dimple of the washer pressing on the corner of the drilled hole. I know, because I got a one inch crack at this point where my left shoulder would be if I was sitting in the pilot seat. > >I quick fix is to take you 3/16 (approx) drill bit and drill at the top of the crack. again smooth out the hole so the crack truly stops at the edge of the hole. A dab of Clear ATP seals the hole. > >When applying the metal trim, take your time and round all corners, it will look nicer when done with no sharp edges. > >IN summary Keys to a clean canopy job: >1- let the drill bit do the work >2- prepare the drill bit by filing a used bit to 0 degrees(you can take it to a tool shop and they can do it for you) >3- sand the holes smooth >4- make the holes 1-2mm bigger than they need to be. especially where you dimple the side metal plates on the canopy. plenty of room to sand the glass bigger than it needs to be. > >5- don't freek out, just take your time > >Juan Vega >601xl/3300 jabiru ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fuel tank dip stick
the best thing I have seen so far versus the tryed and true Oak stick is the Superhawk plastic dip stick. you calibrate it to where the gallon shows up on the dip stick as you fill the tank the first time, then you just dip the stick and refer to a little chart, and it tells what you gotts. Oak stick is the best just notch it with a knife at each measurement. Juan Juan -----Original Message----- >From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM> >Sent: Apr 3, 2007 8:10 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel tank dip stick > > >A fuel dip stick is pretty simple to make. I made mine from a piece of oak >3/4 inch wide by 3/16 inch thick by 12 inches long. I drained my tanks and >the proceeded to fill them a gallon at a time. After each gallon, I >inserted the stick (holding it against the rear of the filler opening to try >and insure the stick went in vertically) and drew a line in pen and labeled >it at the top of the wetted area on the stick. Be advised that you probably >will not register any wetness on the stick until you have about 2 1/2 to 3 >gallons in the tank. I started my markings at about 3 gallons. Continue the >process until you have the tank filled. That'sabout it > >George May >601XL 912s-----59 hours > > >>From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com> >>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >>To: "Zenith list" >>Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tank dip stick >>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:14:43 -0500 >> >>Members, >> I have checked the actives and can find nothing about a fuel tank dip >>stick for the standard 12 gallon tank used in the Zodiac601XL. If any of >>you have made one up I would like to have enough information to make one >>for myself to include gallons or fractions thereof per inch in the stick. >> Some weeks ago I asked for a check list for pre-flight and got >>several which I used to develop my own and one of the list items is dip the >>fuel tanks since gauges are not always accurate. >> >>Tracy Stone >>ZodiacXL >>Harker Heights, Tx > >_________________________________________________________________ >Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings >https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com>
Subject: Re: 601xl gear bending
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Guy's I own a nice 30 ton Enerpac Hydraulic Press. This machine has a dual acting cylinder (push or pull) with 16 inches of stroke, along with a very accurate digital readout with peak load recording capability. If any one would like to have their blank gear (or anything else) formed let me know, I'm sure I could save you some money even over the ZAC cost. Also FWIW, I have a mill & lath both with Sony X / Y digital readouts if you would like anything machined. If interested please contact me off list for details. Kelly Meiste 601 HD (150 hours) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herbert Heaton" <heatonhe36(at)msn.com> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601xl gear bending > > Wade, > > I have contemplated the same thing. I calculated the minimum pressure > required to bend the 3/4" x 8" 6061-T6 would be about 12 ton. The > hydraulic press brake I can use at work is only 9 ton so I've been looking > for an alternative solution. > > I received a quote from Zenith for part #6G3-1 at $720. If you can get > it for $570, grab it. The complete gear assembly...Spring Gear, Nose > Wheel, Main Wheels, Brakes, Tires, Tubes, Master Cylinders came to $2,000. > > Consider if you make a bend not quite perpendicular to the edge, you have > just scraped $213 of aluminum you can't repair. I think I'll get another > quote from Zenith and if they say $570, I'll buy it and save myself a lot > of work and frustration. > > Herb > > >>From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com> >>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >>To: >>Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl gear bending >>Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:23:49 -0500 >> >>Hello group ,has any of the 601XL scratch builders on this site bent their >>landing gear .If so ,is it a process they would do again or would they buy >>it from a source .I have priced the blank piece from Trident ,they quoted >>a price of $213.00 .The price from ZAC is $570.00 for the finished product >>.Is this something that can be done from home by welding up a fixture and >>using hydraulic pressure . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas >>601XL plans building >>Cont. 0200 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another Build Table
From: "BobTezyk" <bob(at)eaglesnestestates.org>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Good day all, Here are pictures of my finished table less wood top and paint. It is made out of 1.5 in steel tube and turned out level, flat and true. I finally settled on a leg socket arrangement made up of 1.5 in square tube 4 in long with two 6 in long 1.5 in angle iron welded to it. The sockets are slightly tapered to account slight misalignments of the top and bottom socket. To accomplish this, I built a shim out of a piece of scrap square tube and welded one spot on each side. This was placed in the top of the socket during welding and knocked out upon completion. The taper allows for the slight misallignment of the top and bottom sockets and for the tubes to slide in and out easily. I can change the height of the table by simply cutting new verticals. The minimum height for the table is 16 in for fuselage work. One of my neighbors pointed out that I could remove the top and build arms for the base that fit the sockets to create a rotisserie for painting. Another neighbor suggested that I get 6 more nuts to lock the jack screws in place so they do not creep. Yes, it is overkill but it sure was fun to build. It is an alternative for those who do not find working with wood fun. The project was something of a Tom Sawyer adventure. Two of my neighbors learned how to wire weld on it. That is why many of the welds are sloppy. -------- Regards, Bob Tezyk N78QT - 601XL QB/ Jab3300 Started on elevator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104823#104823 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable11_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable09_172.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable06_373.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable05_151.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable04_768.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Build Table
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Wow! That is one substantial table, Bob. You could probably build a tank on it. If you haven't decided on a top yet consider 3/4" MDF. It makes for a very flat, smooth surface and is great when you need to drill and cleco parts directly to the table. Just my humble opinion. Dave Clay Temple, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104826#104826 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Build Table
From: "BobTezyk" <bob(at)eaglesnestestates.org>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Thanks Dave, I have 2 sheets of 3/4" B-C plywood to go on top already but that is a good thought. I will do that when it comes time to re-surface. -------- Regards, Bob Tezyk N78QT - 601XL QB/ Jab3300 Started on elevator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104828#104828 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: Matt Keyes <keyesmp(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: bailing out!
I have had the same thought about egress from a Zodiac in the case of a water landing. Most water ditching in wheeled planes flips the plane upside down. How would someone open the canapy with the full force of water against it after just being turned on one' s head? Who would be willing to wait for the plane to slowly fill with water while sinking to try to get the canapy open. I wonder if a slider mod would solve both questions and be worth the weight and added complications? Matt Keyes --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian McClelland" <macstar(at)raider.co.nz>
Subject: Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Anyone got the URL for the surplus center? Ian McClelland 601XL Wing construction underway. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center
Again, good points Dino. I'll have to play with the controller once it arrives and make sure I'm not going to induce a safety issue. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario , Canada do no archive --- Dino Bortolin wrote: > You could do that, and if you catch a runaway in > time, you can stop if from > going any further. But you wouldn't be able to bring > it back, unless you put > in another switch to override the controller. At > which point, I think it has > turned the elegantly simple into the overly complex. > But, that's the beauty > of homebuilts - everyone is free to make it any way > that suits them. I still > like a DPDT toggle switch... > > Dino Bortolin > > On 4/3/07, MacDonald Doug > wrote: > > > > > > > Another solution to the position problem would be > to > > install a switch in the power output to the motor > that > > would be used as a system enable. That way if the > > controller did get scrambled, it would be unable > to > > output to the motor. Simply flip the switch on as > > part of your downwind check. > > > > Very good point Dino > > > > Doug MacDonald > > TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center
http://www.surpluscenter.com Doug MacDonald This should be committed to the archive --- Ian McClelland wrote: > > > Anyone got the URL for the surplus center? > > Ian McClelland > 601XL > Wing construction underway. > TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "Tom Lutz" <tommylutz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement
Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? I'm looking for clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with ease. I imagine I'd be screwed come time for the engine and rudder attachment, but that's not an immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement from outside the house. The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees at the bottom, so obviously that would have to change. I can imagine getting the wings out of the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the fuselage. What size door would I need? Thanks, Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement
Date: Apr 04, 2007
A hole drilled with a fluted bit comes out somewhat triangle shaped because there is not enough self guiding with the bit itself. I built my entire 601 in my basement. Right from the start I planned on putting a large door in to get it out. In 2000 as part of a kitchen addition project, I installed a home made Bilco type door that cranks up with a boat winch. It's 8 feet wide and 7' 4" high. I've had the plane out 3 times so far. Aaron Gustafson Soon to take it out for the last time! do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement
> RJS/701 > TOM, sit down. It doesn't matter about the holes > being perfectly round, its going to be filled by a > rivet. OK that said, figure out what size space you > need to build your project. My garage is only 10' > by 14' I'm ging to have to build my fuse in two > sections. I have an enclosed screen patio shed in > my back yard to store any part of the project till > I'm ready to assemble. So you have to make choices > and if you got to widen doorways or build add-ons. > It has to be done. I have known people that have > built their planes in bedrooms, seriously! So any > questions feel free to email me. I'm going to take > some pics soon and maybe compare notes. Do not > archive. --- Tom Lutz wrote: > Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: > Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if > examined very closely, > are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by > Zenith and a Dewalt > 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we > learn by asking, right? > > Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? > I'm looking for > clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with > ease. I imagine I'd be > screwed come time for the engine and rudder > attachment, but that's not an > immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement > from outside the house. > The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees > at the bottom, so > obviously that would have to change. I can imagine > getting the wings out of > the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the > fuselage. What size door > would I need? > > Thanks, > Tom > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Crvsecretary(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Subject: Re: Round Holes
Hello Tom: You ask an excellent question; I chased this 'problem' as well. I was using quality drill bits and a fast air drill, and my drilled holes were not round either. At least, not 'perfectly' round. I was drilling with a #30 drill bit for the horizontal stabilizer and I wasn't happy with the results until I starting drilling pilot holes with a #40 bit and voila! - ROUND holes !! Fortunately, rivets (when installed properly) expand to fill those irregular holes. For the small drill bits we are using, try to get a small, light, FAST drill motor for best results. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601XL N458XL (reserved) In a message dated 4/4/2007 7:34:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, tommylutz(at)gmail.com writes: Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement
> RJS/701 rjscep(at)yahoo.com > TOM, sit down. It doesn't matter about the holes > being perfectly round, its going to be filled by a > rivet. OK that said, figure out what size space you > need to build your project. My garage is only 10' > by 14' I'm ging to have to build my fuse in two > sections. I have an enclosed screen patio shed in > my back yard to store any part of the project till > I'm ready to assemble. So you have to make choices > and if you got to widen doorways or build add-ons. > It has to be done. I have known people that have > built their planes in bedrooms, seriously! So any > questions feel free to email me. I'm going to take > some pics soon and maybe compare notes. Do not > archive. --- Tom Lutz wrote: > Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: > Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if > examined very closely, > are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by > Zenith and a Dewalt > 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we > learn by asking, right? > > Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? > I'm looking for > clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with > ease. I imagine I'd be > screwed come time for the engine and rudder > attachment, but that's not an > immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement > from outside the house. > The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees > at the bottom, so > obviously that would have to change. I can imagine > getting the wings out of > the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the > fuselage. What size door > would I need? > > Thanks, > Tom > Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JK" <jk(at)amplebyte.com>
Subject: Materials List - Empennage
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I have been researching the 601 series for years. I have a quick question though. I don't have a copy of the 601 plans in front of me, however about to pick a set up. If I were building the Empennage for the 601 (HD/HDS) is there material list anyone has? Primarily I'm looking for information on how many sheets of aluminum would be required? I know that I have seen a similar material list somewhere online at one point. I assume the list would be very close to the XL. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, JK ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: bailing out!
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
More good reasons to go with a gull-wing canopy. [quote="keyesmp(at)yahoo.com"]I have had the same thought about egress from a Zodiac in the case of a water landing. Most water ditching in wheeled planes flips the plane upside down. How would someone open the canapy with the full force of water against it after just being turned on one' s head? Who would be willing to wait for the plane to slowly fill with water while sinking to try to get the canapy open. I wonder if a slider mod would solve both questions and be worth the weight and added complications? Matt Keyes 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick ( http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail&#news) in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ( http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail&#news) > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104866#104866 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Materials List - Empennage
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Sounds like you need to just start building instead of over thinking it. It's about $400 worth of materials I'd say to build the stabilizer, elevator, and rudder. [quote="jk(at)amplebyte.com"]I have been researching the 601 series for years. I have a quick question though. I don't have a copy of the 601 plans in front of me, however about to pick a set up. If I were building the Empennage for the 601 (HD/HDS) is there material list anyone has? Primarily I'm looking for information on how many sheets of aluminum would be required? I know that I have seen a similar material list somewhere online at one point. I assume the list would be very close to the XL. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, JK > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104867#104867 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I'd imagine the bubble canopy would be pretty damn hard to open in flight considering fighter planes have the canopy hinge on the back to allow the canopy to go sailing back into the breeze when the guy jettisons. You'd think the canopy would have lift and would want to rise up on the front hinge, but it's probably counter-intutive (to a pilot anyway) and gets push down instead. More reasons for a gull wing door with break-away hinges, just pull the hinge pin with a big loop on the end and you're out. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104871#104871 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Remote Fuel Cut Off
All the talk about in flight fires reminded me of a discussion I heard many years ago. It mentioned some sort of fuel tank connection that cut off fuel flow if the wings separate from the fuselage. The discussion involved forced landings that nearly always result in fires because these simple devices were not installed in Wichita. Does anybody know of a neat way to isolate the fuel tanks? This would be handy for emergency landings and also for in flight fire situations. Paul XL fuselage - ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Materials List - Empennage
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
What you are looking for should be right here. http://ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm And no he's not over thinking he was just asking for a list of materials. That said if you aren't experienced in this kind of thing I'd strongly suggest you go to the factory workshop. Details are at the Zenith site. [quote="jk(at)amplebyte.com"]I have been researching the 601 series for years. I have a quick question though. I don't have a copy of the 601 plans in front of me, however about to pick a set up. If I were building the Empennage for the 601 (HD/HDS) is there material list anyone has? Primarily I'm looking for information on how many sheets of aluminum would be required? I know that I have seen a similar material list somewhere online at one point. I assume the list would be very close to the XL. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, JK > [b] -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104892#104892 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I geuss you could add a couple of cut off valves where the fuel lines come into the fueselage. p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote: > All the talk about in flight fires reminded me of a discussion I > heard many years ago. It mentioned some sort of fuel tank connection > that cut off fuel flow if the wings separate from the fuselage. The > discussion involved forced landings that nearly always result in > fires because these simple devices were not installed in Wichita. > > Does anybody know of a neat way to isolate the fuel tanks? This > would be handy for emergency landings and also for in flight fire situations. > > Paul > XL fuselage > > > - -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104893#104893 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Tom, You can build the fuselage in sections using clecos, then dissemble and take out to the garage for assembly and rivetting, which is what I did. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Lutz To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Round Holes / Workshop in basement Here's me being inquisitive and picky again: Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round? I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill. This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement? I'm looking for clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with ease. I imagine I'd be screwed come time for the engine and rudder attachment, but that's not an immediate concern. Currently, I access my basement from outside the house. The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees at the bottom, so obviously that would have to change. I can imagine getting the wings out of the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the fuselage. What size door would I need? Thanks, Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: New HF rivet gun
Gents, Has anyone tried this rivet gun yet? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search My $39 HF gun built the entire plane, and is still working great. It is a little heavy, but not too bad. If this one is durable enough, it might be a good buy R/ Brandon Tucker 601 HDS / TD / Corvair 80 hours --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New HF rivet gun
From: "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Try this link: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber-173 Looks interesting to me. I have the "old" HF unit and it works great, but lighter weight would ne nice. Chris in Seattle -------- 701 Scratch Builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104921#104921 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net>
Subject: flying the 801
Kathy and Jeff Here is a letter I wrote a couple of years ago. It is as true now as it was them. If you would like a couple of hours in a 801 come on up and I would be happy to give you a ride. Pay special attention to the no flaps in a cross wind!!!! This will get you in trouble fast! Bill I'm really enjoying the 801. I'm have been thinking of writing a lessons learned article this winter. The 801 jumps into the air! I'm very pleased with that. Even at gross it doesn't seem like you are driving a truck trying to take off. Most of my experience is in a PA22 and PA20. When they get heavy they take forever to get into the air! I have not nicked my prop. The ground clearance is incredible! In Alaska you are required by law and good sense to carry survival gear. My sleeping bags and dried food are behind the back seat on the sides of the control tunnel. It is a perfect extended baggage for light stuff. It is accessible from the access panel in the bottom. I did the no slot modification that Jim Frisby and Ben Hass put together. Ben sent me the parts; it was simple and better than the factory instructions. I really like the thought of not having a slot to accumulate snow and slush in the controls. Things I wish were different: All the air goes over the wing. It is a rough ride in turbulence! Realize I live in a mountainous area. The "bowl" is 4 miles by 10 miles with 6000' mountains on all sides. And the wind blows. The only other thing I have is, I like going to the beaches. You cannot raise the nose with power. You need to be going 35-40 mph before the nose comes up. When it does come up you are flying. I'm planning on building and installing the wider tail this winter. I made and installed VGs last weekend and perhaps they were not big enough or aggressive enough but they did not help enough to justify flying the 5 hours off. The VG are now on and will remain on the horizontal tail. I highly recommend you install VGs on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer. The VGs made a lot more difference than the larger horizontal stabilizer kit from ZAC. When you land on a beach that is too soft, conventional wisdom says, fire wall it and suck the stick back. You will either end up in the air or stopped on the very soft beach right side up at full power. I don't know if the 801's elevator is effective enough at slow speeds to keep the nose up until you get stopped. Thank goodness I have not gone on that soft of a beach this summer... hopefully I never will again. I bent the main gear last year after hitting a rock taking off a soft beach last year. Lessons learned: It is a rudder airplane! You cannot have lazy feet! Step on the ball! I almost got caught a couple of times before I quit using flaps in a cross wind. At slow speeds with full flaps the adverse yaw is significant and the effectiveness of the flaperons diminishes! I almost had a whole bunch of AL parts littering the beach figuring this out. It was one of those, "there I was" 10' in the air with full elevator, full rudder and full flaperon deflection and...!... I came around the next time without flaps and landed with no problem. A 10 mph cross wind is not a big deal at 60 knots or 70 mph but at 40 mph it is a big deal! I had problems with the tires. I up sized to 8.50x6.00 tire and I finally drilled a new hole in the rim and put in standard tubes. No problem since then. The airframe is bullet proof. I have done 4 condition inspections. No significant problems. Although cylinder number 2 uses a little oil ;+}. Well I changed out cylinder 2 and 3 about 100 hrs ago, because of oil usage. I have had problem with the flaperon rods rubbing under the back seat and one fuel tank leak... other than that, any problems I have had have been attributable to operator error. The airframe oil cans when you go slow. It is kind of a stall warning. I installed weather stripping Xs to reduce the oil canning. I may replace them with standard Ls this winter. Since I rarely do stalls, I still have the weather stripping in place. My empty weight came in at 1175 re-weighted to 1200 lbs. I have a minimal VFR panel. I am very happy with the weight. You can get out of CG rearward. When you get heavy put the big guys in the front. Don't expect big climb rates when you get heavy. When light the CG is too far forward so put the guns and survival gear in the baggage area. The right hand stick and left hand throttle takes a little getting use to. The 801 meets and exceed the 3 requirements I had for my plane; 4 seats, cruise at 100 (Now about 115) mph and get out short! You are talking to one happy camper. It would be interesting to hear from Ben or anyone else who has quite a few hours in the 801 about their experiences! I assume you have read about my recent removal of the slats, the addition of VGs and subsequent increase in speed. I also installed the lift strut fairing kit this winter. I have not flown enough to come up with firm speeds yet. The plane is faster. My guess is 115 mph at 10.5 gph or 103 mph at 7.8 gph. An increase of 12 mph which is 12% at cruise is significant! I am looking forward to the Valdez May Day Fly-in and Air Show. I plan on getting my take-off and landing distances measured with and without leading edge slats. I will see if I can beat my 114' take off distance from last year. Bill Wilcox Valdez, AK N801BW 285 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Milburn Reed" <milreed(at)directcon.net>
Subject: Re: deburing holes
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Using a metal abrasive wheel cut off saw, I shorten a drill as needed and use in some tight places. Apply friction tape. Will now cut up a file, sounds like a good idea. What's a hocky puck? Sorry aboot that. Mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Materials List - Empennage
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Figured maybe he was over thinking it because I did the same thing, then just decided to go for it. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104938#104938 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Sun-N-Fun
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Well 2 Root canals and restorative dental surgery, as I look out the window and see that I=92m in the middle of a snow blizzard ! I have to tell you all that I=92m in a great mood! The Sun-N-Fun Webmaster BBQ on Thursday April 19th 5pm ' 8pm is gaining unprecedented momentum, we are now at over 160 people pre-registered ! This is just incredible ! I will be finalizing the name tags soon and hope that anyone who was sitting on the fence is able to go to HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org or HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com/"www.ch701.com and fill in the online form. Remember folks this is your ticket for the food! This year we are going to setup a little differently, we are located in the campground at the same location as last year but this time we will have a table at the front of the event where all the name tags will be located. Your ticket Table will be hosted by Ramelle Bintz . Ramelle will be there to help you get your nametag, also new for this year we have donations to raffle off. The grand raffle is a Cummings Spinner, custom made for your plane and prop, kindly donated by Allan at Cummings Spinners in Australia. Next, I would really like to note that once again we have sponsors that have really stepped up. Though I ask for donations to help out with the food at the event and I put every cent back into the BBQ or to the next BBQ. IT would not be possible without the help of our sponsors! I wish to THANK the great generosity of USA William Wynne FlyCorvair.com HYPERLINK "http://www.flightcrafters.citymaker.com/page/page/1694089.htm"Flight Crafters Jabiru USA, William Wynne, Quality Sport Planes, Flight Crafters, Homebuilthelp.com are all businesses that contribute to this event this year. With that we are able to offer the kind of event that goes far beyond the simple burger on a bun! This year like last year we will have burgers, dogs, corn and wings. I will also be getting more pop, salads and dessert this year, we ran a little short last year. So All in ALL we are on target for the largest event yet! And the largest Zenith Owners and Builders gathering ever! IF your not registered do you really want to miss out on something this big? Come on Sun-N-Fun is a great place to be!!! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Haven't gotten there yet, but I was thinking of reversing the canopy hinge bolts, leaving the nuts off, using some light holddown to keep them in place, and a cable-operated handle to pull the bolts and let the canopy "fly" off. Under those circumstances, though, you wouldn't need a light holddown. You'd probably generate a King Kong force. ((A BRS chute would be better) Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair (*&^%$# canopy! ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe<mailto:joe(at)kfiz.com> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Bailing out of a 601! > My friend Lee had a Cessna 150 Aerobat and I can remember seeing some sort of quick release door handle on the inside that would remove the door from the hinges in flight to make it easier for a parachute jump. What in the world would you do in a 601 XL if you had to bail out in a hurry? Has anyone ever bailed out of a 601? I remember going up with Lee and betting him a steak dinner that he couldn't make me sick. I wound up treating at Ponderosa that night. I don't know much about the legality of aerobatics because I like to fly almost straight and level, but for the guys who like that kind of flying would it be worth it to figure out some kind of a hinge pin system that would release the canopy from it's hinges in case a bail out was needed? Do the FAR's require a parachute when doing aerobatics? I have nothing against that kind of flying, but life is too great and too short to take unnecessary chances. Joe in Oshkosh 601XL http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List avigator?Zenith-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Materials List - Empennage
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Well if he is just thinking about it I applaud him. Building an aircraft is not something that should be taken lightly or without a lot of thought. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104959#104959 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Materials List - Empennage
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Gig Giacona wrote: > Well if he is just thinking about it I applaud him. Building an aircraft is not something that should be taken lightly or without a lot of thought. I agree, but he said he's been thinking for years. I feel like I wasted a lot of time just thinking when I should have just went ahead and did it. The questions answer themselves over time. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104961#104961 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Don't forget there are the hold open pistons there as well. And they'd have to release. I saw a picture somewhere of Van's RV12 test plane and there was a canopy ejection handle. I doubt it will be there on the final design but it was there for the tests. I'm not a fan of BRS. Many if not most of the times they would be of use the aircraft could be landed without them. Look at the accident database and figure how many of the fatal 601 accidents would have not have been fatal with a BRS. I think you'd find that it isn't that large a number. > Haven't gotten there yet, but I was thinking of reversing the canopy hinge bolts, leaving the nuts off, using some light holddown to keep them in place, and a cable-operated handle to pull the bolts and let the canopy "fly" off. Under those circumstances, though, you wouldn't need a light holddown. You'd probably generate a King Kong force. ((A BRS chute would be better) > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104963#104963 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn & Nancy" <ding(at)tbscc.com>
Subject: Flap Wiring
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Can anyone advise me as to appropriate wire and guage for the flap motor wiring? Looks like four conductors are required. Do they all need to be heavy enough for the motor draw, or just two of them? Would it be criminal to use trailer wiring cable? Lynn 601XL / Corvair ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Bailing out of a 601!
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I don't have extensive experience with Vans aircraft but the two RV7-As that I have been in and around both have canopy relase mechanisms. I don't think it is a feature limited to testing prototypes. The release is a T handle that when pulled works a set of levers which pull the canopy release pins inward. I'm not sure but I think that the entire canopy hinge assembly leaves as a unit, gas lift struts and all. I can check it out and report back if the listers feel it is important. My feeling is to go with what CH designed and use either a rock hammer as suggested or carry one of those auto escape tools which combine a seat bemt cutter and a window smashing hammer. An amature designed canopy release would make the designer the pioneer and history shows that pioneers get all the arrows. Oh yeah, and I hope the det cord suggestion was just graveyard humor. Dred Don't forget there are the hold open pistons there as well. And they'd have to release. I saw a picture somewhere of Van's RV12 test plane and there was a canopy ejection handle. I doubt it will be there on the final design but it was there for the tests. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New HF rivet gun
pilotmall.com has some great dipsaticks that you can buy and calibrate for the 601 tanks. juan -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lewis <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net> >Sent: Apr 4, 2007 1:36 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New HF rivet gun > > >Try this link: > >http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber-173 > >Looks interesting to me. I have the "old" HF unit and it works great, but lighter weight would ne nice. > >Chris in Seattle > >-------- >701 Scratch Builder > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104921#104921 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Flap Wiring
Date: Apr 04, 2007
If this is for an XL then 6-B-20 (Date 06/03) shows that all 4 wires carry the full current. I've measure a steady-state current draw of about 4 amps. For that current over a rough length of 7-10 feet 18 gauge would be a suitable size: www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm Generally Tefzel wire is recommended in aircraft. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: burbby <burbby(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another Build Table
That should be strong enough. That is the way I like to do things also. Good job!! Good day all, Here are pictures of my finished table less wood top and paint. It is made out of 1.5 in steel tube and turned out level, flat and true. I finally settled on a leg socket arrangement made up of 1.5 in square tube 4 in long with two 6 in long 1.5 in angle iron welded to it. The sockets are slightly tapered to account slight misalignments of the top and bottom socket. To accomplish this, I built a shim out of a piece of scrap square tube and welded one spot on each side. This was placed in the top of the socket during welding and knocked out upon completion. The taper allows for the slight misallignment of the top and bottom sockets and for the tubes to slide in and out easily. I can change the height of the table by simply cutting new verticals. The minimum height for the table is 16 in for fuselage work. One of my neighbors pointed out that I could remove the top and build arms for the base that fit the sockets to create a rotisserie for painting. Another neighbor suggested that I get 6 more nuts to lock the jack screws in place so they do not creep. Yes, it is overkill but it sure was fun to build. It is an alternative for those who do not find working with wood fun. The project was something of a Tom Sawyer adventure. Two of my neighbors learned how to wire weld on it. That is why many of the welds are sloppy. -------- Regards, Bob Tezyk N78QT - 601XL QB/ Jab3300 Started on elevator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104823#104823 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable11_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable09_172.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable06_373.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable05_151.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bldtable04_768.jpg --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MaxNr(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Subject: Re:Remote Fuel Cut Off
What you're looking for is called a breakaway fuel fitting. They were beginning to be installed on military aircraft late 70's. Especially helicopters. I know UH-1 Hueys had them some where on the engine deck under the engine. If you can find a hulk you can rob, its easy to get off. Need both male and female ends. Wonder what they cost new from a supplier? They sort of look and work like an air hose coupling. Except no collar to slide. A strain on the line will cause the male and female to uncouple and will cause a shutoff. This prevents a cloud of fuel mist during the crash sequence. This cloud contacts arcing wires or hot exhaust and boom. Another good practice is to put a loop of extra flexible fuel line at the point where wing joins fuselage. Idea is that a lot of structure can break and move without parting a taut fuel line. I like this method. Uncle Sam gave me some formal training in crash survival design at Arizona State Univ, Tempe. DR Harry Robinson (Robertson?)was #2 man in the dept. He had a Tempe company that did research, design & mfr. of helicopter auxiliary fuel tanks. Robertson Tanks still sells to the Gvt and industry. They may be a source or reference for breakaway fuel valves. Don't ever see them AS or WagAero. Bob from Pace,Fl ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I am using an old 110v ac 2500 rpm Black & Decker 1/4" drill motor that I got from my father. The high rpm's and starting with a small pilot and stepping up in size 2 to 3 times will produce the roundest holes. I was going to get an air drill but this is really quieter and more practical. Don't know about the basement, but I am thinking of setting up some equipment down there. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105020#105020 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Materials List - Empennage
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Welcome aboard, The materials list at ch601.org will get you going. I am using it as I go along as a check list. It only took me one flight in one of these things to get me started. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105021#105021 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: My 601HD still for sale: Reminder
From: "zodieman" <webmaster(at)upac.ca>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Sorry folks, I don't mean to spam the list but I still have my 601HD for sale. I've had 3 three serious buyers in a row bow out at the last minute. Very frustrating when you have shown the plane, agreed on price, got paperwork ready and arranged delivery etc... Circumstances of life have dictated a leave of absence from the flying world for me so I really have to sell this plane this month. I few a few spare parts, some landing gear jigs and a set of fiberglass wheel pant molds I made last year (never completed the project). Anyhow, details are below. I have TONS of pictures up on my private website and I'll try and attach a few here. Zenair Zodiac 601HD. Built in 2005. 50 Hours TT. 80HP Rotax 912 engine. Registered as Advanced Ultralight. Forward opening tinted canopy (like the XL model) which is much safer than the stock HD side-opening canopy. Czech Aircraft works cowling system provides better cooling and faster cruise (105 Mph). 3-blade Warp Drive ground-adjustable composite prop with spinner. Full VFR panel with ASI, VSI, ALT, electric turn and bank, Grand Rapids EIS for engine monitoring, ICOM A6 radio, Garmin 176 GPS, 2-place Sigtronics intercom. 2 headsets included. Has both elevator and aileron trim. Kuntzelman strobes. External radio antenna. Centre console with 2 12V AUX power outlets. Interior has cabin heat. 16 Gallon header tank with 2 7-gallon wing tanks (30 gallons for long-range flight). Streamlined enclosed wheel boxes. Beautiful white/black/grey paint job. First $34,000 US or $39,000 Canadian takes it. I have to sell it this month! Call Trevor at 519 448-4816 after 6PM. Lots more pictures here: Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105051#105051 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First wing complete
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Well gang, today I finally finished my right wing. Its a great feeling to know I made every single part by hand (except the fiberglass tip and the hardware). Most of the parts for the left wing are made, so it should go together more quickly. I couldn't have reached this milestone without the good people on this list who took the time to answer my questions and offer much needed advice and inspiration. Thanks to you all. Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL scratch builder http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105065#105065 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_042_151.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_039_906.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_027_130.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Bailing out of 601
From: chrisoz(at)bmail.com.au
Hi Listers, I have been following this thread and am fascinated that nobody has mentioned that for a long time the 601 family had the problem of LOOSING their canopys in flight. The old CH side hinging mechanism is prone to accidental elbow action, leading to loss of canopy. Happened quite often, and suddenly you found yourself sitting in 100 mph winds in a convertible. Generally the canopys did not hit the empenage, and as far as I know everybody was able to land. Helps to have goggles on board I suppose... Anyway, if you are concerned about inflight egress from the plane, get the old style canopy mechanism (also so much easier to built than the new one, though seriously un-sexy), flip the lock and duck, and after the canopy is gone pull the stick back and then push forward, unload the plane and float out of the cockpit under negative G. Personally I would go for the BRS, and have actually fitted BRS systems to the three Zodiacs I have finished and flown. The guys who lost their wing the other day might still be around if they had had one... Happy Easter everybody!! Chris from Perth (Southern Hemisphere) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First wing complete
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT(at)networkrail.co.uk>
Dave Well done Dave and thanks for sharing you project with us. it gives us all a lift! I have just completed a day of bending using my Clay Bending Brake, I cant believe how simple it is to use and the accuracy that can be achieved - thanks for giving the details I think a lot of builders are going to find scratch building is not a difficult as first thought, just more time is required. Best regards Malcolm Hunt CH601XL plans builder in England -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TxDave Sent: 05 April 2007 06:33 Subject: Zenith-List: First wing complete Well gang, today I finally finished my right wing. Its a great feeling to know I made every single part by hand (except the fiberglass tip and the hardware). Most of the parts for the left wing are made, so it should go together more quickly. I couldn't have reached this milestone without the good people on this list who took the time to answer my questions and offer much needed advice and inspiration. Thanks to you all. Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL scratch builder http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105065#105065 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_042_151.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_039_906.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_027_130.jpg Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. **************************************************************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. Network Rail Infrastructure Limited registered in England and Wales No. 2904587, registered office 40 Melton Street London NW1 2EE **************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Dave's wing work
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Hello Dave ,again your wing work looks great .I built your bending brake at the start of my scratch building project .The brake has worked flawlessly throughout my 601XL building and most of the parts have already been bent .Your advise and support to me and the group has been greatly appreciated. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun-N-Fun
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Mark, what kind of food stuff can we bring to help ? Last year seems we ran out of drinks long before the chow. Some of would prefer to donate that way . Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 3:30 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun Well 2 Root canals and restorative dental surgery, as I look out the window and see that I=99m in the middle of a snow blizzard ! I have to tell y ou all that I=99m in a great mood! The Sun-N-Fun Webmaster BBQ on Thursday April 19th 5pm =93 8pm is gain ing unprecedented momentum, we are now at over 160 people pre-registered ! T his is just incredible ! I will be finalizing the name tags soon and hope th at anyone who was sitting on the fence is able to go to www.ch601.org or www .ch701.com and fill in the online form. Remember folks this is your ticket f or the food! This year we are going to setup a little differently, we are l ocated in the campground at the same location as last year but this time we will have a table at the front of the event where all the name tags will be located. Your ticket Table will be hosted by Ramelle Bintz . Ramelle will be there to help you get your nametag, also new for this year we have donations to raff le off. The grand raffle is a Cummings Spinner, custom made for your plane and prop, kindly donated by Allan at Cummings Spinners in Australia. Next, I would really like to note that once again we have sponsors that have really stepped up. Though I ask for donations to help out with the food at the event and I put every cent back into the BBQ or to the next BBQ. IT woul d not be possible without the help of our sponsors! I wish to THANK the grea t generosity of USA William Wynne FlyCorvair.com Flight Crafters Jabiru USA, William Wynne, Quality Sport Planes, Flight Crafters, Homebuilth elp.com are all businesses that contribute to this event this year. With tha t we are able to offer the kind of event that goes far beyond the simple bur ger on a bun! This year like last year we will have burgers, dogs, corn and wings. I will also be getting more pop, salads and dessert this year, we ran a little short last year. So All in ALL we are on target for the largest event yet! And the largest Ze nith Owners and Builders gathering ever! IF your not registered do you reall y want to miss out on something this big? Come on Sun-N-Fun is a great place to be!!! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM ________________________________________________________________________ AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off
From: "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Check this out: http://www.spectrumct.com/products/14000/dimensions/ Chris in Seattle -------- 701 Scratch Builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105151#105151 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Sun-N-Fun
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Bill as ALWAYS I would be more then happy to have people bring salads and dessert ! I try to supply one salad and pickles, the rest of the table is open for donations. I will be tripling my drinks this year from last years. Oh and remember to bring your own chairs!! Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun Mark, what kind of food stuff can we bring to help ? Last year seems we ran out of drinks long before the chow. Some of would prefer to donate that way. Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 3:30 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun Well 2 Root canals and restorative dental surgery, as I look out the window and see that I=92m in the middle of a snow blizzard ! I have to tell you all that I=92m in a great mood! The Sun-N-Fun Webmaster BBQ on Thursday April 19th 5pm ' 8pm is gaining unprecedented momentum, we are now at over 160 people pre-registered ! This is just incredible ! I will be finalizing the name tags soon and hope that anyone who was sitting on the fence is able to go to HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/" \nwww.ch601.org or HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com/" \nwww.ch701.com and fill in the online form. Remember folks this is your ticket for the food! This year we are going to setup a little differently, we are located in the campground at the same location as last year but this time we will have a table at the front of the event where all the name tags will be located. Your ticket Table will be hosted by Ramelle Bintz . Ramelle will be there to help you get your nametag, also new for this year we have donations to raffle off. The grand raffle is a Cummings Spinner, custom made for your plane and prop, kindly donated by Allan at Cummings Spinners in Australia. Next, I would really like to note that once again we have sponsors that have really stepped up. Though I ask for donations to help out with the food at the event and I put every cent back into the BBQ or to the next BBQ. IT would not be possible without the help of our sponsors! I wish to THANK the great generosity of USA William Wynne FlyCorvair.com HYPERLINK "http://www.flightcrafters.citymaker.com/page/page/1694089.htm" \nFlight Crafters Jabiru USA, William Wynne, Quality Sport Planes, Flight Crafters, Homebuilthelp.com are all businesses that contribute to this event this year. With that we are able to offer the kind of event that goes far beyond the simple burger on a bun! This year like last year we will have burgers, dogs, corn and wings. I will also be getting more pop, salads and dessert this year, we ran a little short last year. So All in ALL we are on target for the largest event yet! And the largest Zenith Owners and Builders gathering ever! IF your not registered do you really want to miss out on something this big? Come on Sun-N-Fun is a great place to be!!! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/" \nwww.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com/" \nwww.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.osprey2.com/" \nwww.Osprey2.com -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM -- 4/3/2007 12:48 PM _____ AOL at HYPERLINK "http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437" \nAOL.com. -- 4/4/2007 1:09 PM -- 4/4/2007 1:09 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <planejim(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Sun N Fun Zenith Bar B Que
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Mark, Bill of GA and all Listers, My campsite, on Echo St. is the site of our Zenith Bar B Que at Sun N Fun again this year. I can attest to Mark's reminder to "BRING YOUR CHAIR". Last year even the steps of my camper were prime real estate for seating. I wish I could bring a chair for everyone, but 160 chairs are quite a few!! If you want a seat, please bring your own. I hope to get to talk with all of you on Thursday evening April 19th. Jim Hoak - 601HD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 Conventional Gear ...
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima(at)hydro.mb.ca>
Notice I did not say "tail-dragger" just to let y'all know I am serious. How many and who are running the conventional gear version of the 701? Any issues, problems, benefits? Thanks Martin Bima STOL-Vair Must make fuselage decision soon..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Education
Hi Listers! So it's all about education. "Mistakes are avoided with experience, but that experience comes from making mistakes." Well, I got a big dose of both today. I learned that BNC connectors are not candidates for "mix-n-match." I have many BNC connectors in various configurations and from different sources, and I tried to free-lance. It doesn't always work! And it sure can contribute a lot of frustration! (Don't ask!) So, a word to the wise: Use only the BNC components that came packed with the body, namely the center pin and the ferrule. Don't even think about mixing components from different packages, different configurations or different suppliers. Live to an older and wiser age. Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 Slat Jig?
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: "Tim Coffman" <TCoffman(at)rfmd.com>
Does anyone have a 701 slat jig they would like to sell? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Flap Wiring
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Tefzel is also a lot more nick-resistant. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)AOL.COM
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Subject: Re: 701 Slat Jig?
Where are you located? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Kyle" <Phoenix3(at)cox.net>
Subject: Auxilliary 701 Tanks
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Hi, I would like to get thoughts on auxilliary tanks for the 701. I like the idea of extra fuel on board and can stand the cost, but would like to know what effect the extra fual weight has on flight characteristics. I am wondering if the aircraft becomes at all sluggish in roll, or other effects like that. Also, if someone has auxilliary tanks, do you frequentily make use of the extra capacity and for what mission. Thanks in advance. Chuck Kyle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First wing complete
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Looking good Dave, I better get going or your gonna beat me into the air. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105266#105266 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auxilliary 701 Tanks
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Chuck, What you ask depends on whether you are considering a standard powerplant or going outside the design limitations. The ZAC website has the info for calculating the effects of running over MAUW. My own 701 is CZAW built with 85 litres capacity and when operating at full tanks full load there is a considerable handling difference and performance penalty, same as a Cessna etc. although TO distance is not much changed. I would not operate over the 1100 lbs, if you add the 75 ltrs aux tanks you will just be leaving off your exra baggage / lunch to keep the weight the same. If you need over 1100 lbs you need a bigger plane - CH750 / 801 / 601 XL would do. I would not expect any roll handling issues as the design is standard with aux tanks and they are still inboard of the wing struts. If I were starting from kit I would certainly fit the aux tanks, you dont have to use them unless you go on a solo mission and want the extra security of range and efficiency of not having to divert for fuel. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105271#105271 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2007
From: "Frank Derfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL?
I'm flying an AMD-made 601XL out of Marathon in the Florida Keys, I fly over water 90% of the time. . My worry about getting out if I'm nose-down in the drink is real. Yes, there is a "fire axe" by my left knee, but my primary emergency drill is open the canopy, prop it open with my hard cover kneeboard, and hope the deceleration swings it forward off the airplane when I make my perfect water landing. I have flown with the canopy unlocked and can testify that it raises up an inch or two, makes a hell of a roar, but doesn't do anything else bad. I have tried a taxi test (holding on to the handle) and I think that the canopy will fly forward with hard deceleration. I TRY to keep the baggage compartment pretty clean, but still it often has hard objects in it. (Have you seen the "Myth Busters" "Killer Tissue Box" episode?) . So, thinking about keeping my head under rapid deceleration, has anyone developed a "best way" to install a cargo net in the baggage space of a 601XL? Sources of the net? Pictures? Frank Derfler N183AM AMD-made 601XL (and yes, I love it and would buy it all over again... although I'd put another Dynon screen on the right side) See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: Filing identifier?
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Just a survey-type question - When filing a flight plan for a 601, do people tend to use the FAA identifier for the factory-built version, CH60, or the standard identifier for an experimental, HXA or HXB (depending on speed)? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firewall Form
From: "ricklach" <rick(at)ravengear.us>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
I decided to go with a stainless steel firewall rather than the galvanized one supplied by Zenith. But now I need a Form to make it. Would any of you scratch builders sell, rent, loan or trust me with your form so I could form my firewall. If youre a kind person I can be reached at: 661-345-7755 or rick(at)ravengear.us Thanks Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105315#105315 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First wing complete
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Looks great but I have a question and can't really tell from the photo. Have you riveted the flap to the wing? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105318#105318 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First wing complete
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
No Gig, it's just setting there for the photo. I'll wait until the wing is attached before final flap installation. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105326#105326 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Filing identifier?
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Interesting. Never even thought to look under Zenith/Zenair. May also be a good question to ask of the EAA at infoserv(at)eaa.org for their iput, Dr Elliott. Looks like a good candidate for the EAA e-Hotline "Question of the Week". Tony Graziano XL, N493TG; 226 hrs. - Re: Filing identifier? From: Bryan Martin (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net) Date: Fri Apr 06 - 8:16 AM I use CH60. The CH60 doesn't just apply to the factory built version, it existed long before AMD started building the 601XL. Even Vans RV3s have a standard identifier (RV3) and the RV3 has never been factory built. The CH620 Gemini has an identifier (CH62) and only the one prototype was ever built. On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote: > Just a survey-type question - When filing a flight plan for a 601, > do people tend to use the FAA identifier for the factory-built > version, CH60, or the standard identifier for an experimental, HXA > or HXB (depending on speed)? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Filing identifier?
From: "eedetail" <eedetail(at)qwest.net>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
I use CH60 to file flight plans, and for flight following. Had a briefer one time that thought it was a helicopter. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105340#105340 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RURUNY(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Subject: Re:Canopy + Cargo Net for 601XL?
Frank, Although my install is on a 701 you can do it on your 601 easy enough. I used 5/8" stainless pad eyes from _http://www.WestMarine.com_ (http://www.WestMarine.com) . Type in 212415 under their keyword search to see.They had 4-packs of these at the store at a cheaper price. I used 2 on top and 2 on bottom in the middle of the cargo area. There are also 2 on the cargo floor just behind the seats. The cargo net clips off the top 2 and can be connected to the 2 front behind the seats depending on what is going back there. Or I could use the 2 nets I have. Finding a cargo net the size you need is easy looking on Ebay. I measured the size of the cargo area and looked for one a bit smaller so it would stretch nicely to the pad eyes. Most of the nets on Ebay have dimensions given but I wrote a few to get ones that weren't. Also pad eyes rivet on nicely with A5 rivets. Go to _http://www.701Builder.com_ (http://www.701Builder.com) and on the homepage scroll down a few pics to see the install. Brian So, thinking about keeping my head under rapid deceleration, has anyone developed a "best way" to install a cargo net in the baggage space of a 601 XL? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Construction Records
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Today I uploaded a brand new Demo version of the "My Kit Airplane" Construction Record Keeping program. Unlike my previous version, you no longer need to have Windows Office or Windows Access to run the program. Any needed Windows System support files are included in both the Demo and CD versions. This is a "real" windows program designed and written for Microsoft Operating Systems. It can be run with any Windows XP computer with SP2. It also works with the new Microsoft VISTA Operating System. The install CD comes with the Windows XP SP2 upgrade. SP2 is NOT included in the Web Demo Download. The Web Demo is quite large, about 53 Meg. If that is to large for you to download, for $5.00 I will send a Demo CD, which also included the Windows XP SP2 upgrade. I think you will find this to be a very smooth operating program, that will meet all the record keeping needs for your Experimental Aircraft construction project. Check out the details and screen shots on the web. <http://www.mykitairplane.com/> http://www.mykitairplane.com Thanks, George Race Race Consulting Home Of My Kit Airplane ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701
From: "mcolbeck" <mark(at)dogpound.anikast.ca>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
I have drilled the top of the left wing spar rivet line. My issue is that a number of the holes are slightly oval. I would like to either drill out to A5 rivets or add A4 rivets every 20mm (in between the others). Is this OK. My spacing distance is fine even at 20mm apart and I am perfectly centered on the spar. I just messed up the sequencing and drill the spar before the nose skin. The center spar doubler has not been drilled so this would be at pitch 40 as per the plans. Help please. -------- CH701 Builder and new flyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105378#105378 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Wright <davidhwright(at)mac.com>
Subject: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL
Date: Apr 07, 2007
Gents I am scratchbuilding a 601 and am neck and neck with Dave Clay and Ron Lendon - however.... While putting together the parts for the right wing I noticed that I had made an error in measuring the location for the lightening holes for the rear ribs. I used the reference line on 6-W-6 top drawing to measure the position of the lightening holes. I measured the 120mm for the first hole from half way up the form block instead of the bottom corner (as is clearly shown in the drawing left side of middle row!) In consequence I now have 18 ribs, 9 of them rivetted into the right wing - all with the lightening holes 30mm forward of where they should be. I noticed this error when fitting the aileron bellcrank assembly. A possible problem I foresee is running the cables to the bellcrank - can anyone put me out of my misery - will the 30mm cause a problem running the aileron cables from the fuselage through the lightening holes - will there still be enough clearance?? I e-mailed Caleb at ZAC, but he was unable to assist as they don't have any open wings at Mexico. He suggested utilising fairleads if there was a problem. Dave Wright 601XL - scratchbuilding wings Washington UK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701
Date: Apr 06, 2007
My issue is that a number of the holes are slightly oval. ==> If you will be putting a rivet in the hole, look at recent posts on this issue to find out how to get a more round hole. The normal advice is that the rivet will fill up the slightly triangular hole. If it is a bolt, it may be of more concern. I just messed up the sequencing and drill the spar before the nose skin. The center spar doubler has not been drilled so this would be at pitch 40 as per the plans. Help please. ==> Go to one of the tool vendors like Aircraft Tool Supply, Brown Tools, or US Tools and look for a tool called a strap duplicator. These are made to allow you to drill a hole in a top skin that lines up with an existing hold in the surface below it. You probably do not need the extra holes and rivets. Jeff D. CH 601 HD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Dave, Take some string and run it from the bell crank back to where the cables enter the fuselage. this should give you a good visual. Maybe you can modify where the other end connects to the stick to compensate? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105385#105385 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL
David, Jig up your bellcrank and find the swing of the expected arc possible with max movements using string if necessary. All the dimensions are there if you stack them and you'll find out how much the 30mm error means to the clearance you need. It may have no consequence or you may find the necessity of making a few ribs again. In any case, don't despair as all of us find ourselves in the same basket from time to time. It's good for the soul to make a few parts more than once occasionally. Good luck, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com David Wright wrote: > > > Gents > > I am scratchbuilding a 601 and am neck and neck with Dave Clay and Ron > Lendon - however.... > While putting together the parts for the right wing I noticed that I > had made an error in measuring the location for the lightening holes > for the rear ribs. I used the reference line on 6-W-6 top drawing to > measure the position of the lightening holes. I measured the 120mm > for the first hole from half way up the form block instead of the > bottom corner (as is clearly shown in the drawing left side of middle > row!) > In consequence I now have 18 ribs, 9 of them rivetted into the right > wing - all with the lightening holes 30mm forward of where they should > be. > I noticed this error when fitting the aileron bellcrank assembly. > A possible problem I foresee is running the cables to the bellcrank - > can anyone put me out of my misery - will the 30mm cause a problem > running the aileron cables from the fuselage through the lightening > holes - will there still be enough clearance?? > I e-mailed Caleb at ZAC, but he was unable to assist as they don't > have any open wings at Mexico. He suggested utilising fairleads if > there was a problem. > > > Dave Wright > 601XL - scratchbuilding wings > Washington UK > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2007
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Motivation
Hello Friends, Sorry for beeing so late, I am building It takes to much time to be updated in a list,while building today is April 6. about 1,200 mails to read... For a good article in Motivation read the March issue of Kitplanes, the article about "Homebuild Moment" explains exactly this... Saludos Gary Gower Flying a 701 912S from Chapala, Mexico. Back to building the 601 XL. brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > Ok guys and gals. This email serves two purposes. I need to know what others do to keep motivated during a project. I've just gotten started in this whole scratch building process due to the money part of it, after completing the tail from a kit. Slow going compared to the kit! And I'm wondering if my parts are going to be alright, and if I'm making them to the right tolerances, if my bending radius is correct, if .5mm variance is ok, etc etc etc. (I don't need answers to those questions, I'm just venting :) ) > > So, onto the second part of this email. Part of my diminishing motivation is the fact that I'm stuck with one part. I'm working on my spar, and I can't seem to think of a way to secure the angle to the web while I'm drilling my rivet holes. It's such a long piece, and I don't want to build in a warp. What have others done during this phase? > > Whew. I feel a little better now. Sorry for the vent. > > (by the way, it's a 701) Spar drilling. Lot's of clamps. Then clecos obviously. Motivation, break it down into smaller projects. Right now you're not building a plane, you're building an assembly of a plane, and to break it down further you're building an assembly of an assembly. Enjoy watching each piece come together correctly. Later you'll put it all together into a plane. Don't put a tme limit on yourself. Just look at the time in the garage as YOUR time. That's it. -------- CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98358#98358 --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701
You can easily make your own "strap duplicator" or what I call a hole finder. Take two strips of .025 aluminum that are about 1" x 4 or 5 inches. Stack them and drill two holes in one end for A4 rivets, about 3/4" apart. Cleco the two strips together. At the other end, drill through both with a #40 drill bit. Take the strips apart and put an A3 rivet into one of the single end holes. Rivet the two strips together with the A3 rivet in the bottom one, with the head up. The "tail" will just fit in a #30 hole. Slip the device over the edge of the skin sheet and find the rivet hole with the A3 rivet. Viola! You now have a pilot hole directly over the existing rivet hole. I just drill enough to make a definite "center" and remove the device before completing the hole. That way, I don't drill through to the lower strip and ruin it. I made two of these, one with an A3 rivet for #30 holes and another with an A4 rivet for #20 holes. If this is not clear, I can send a drawing. Jay in Dallas "Jeff " wrote: > >My issue is that a number of the holes are slightly oval. > >==> If you will be putting a rivet in the hole, look at recent posts on >this issue to find out how to get a more round hole. The normal advice is >that the rivet will fill up the slightly triangular hole. If it is a bolt, >it may be of more concern. > >I just messed up the sequencing and drill the spar before the nose skin. The >center spar doubler has not been drilled so this would be at pitch 40 as per >the plans. Help please. >==> Go to one of the tool vendors like Aircraft Tool Supply, Brown Tools, or >US Tools and look for a tool called a strap duplicator. These are made to >allow you to drill a hole in a top skin that lines up with an existing hold >in the surface below it. You probably do not need the extra holes and >rivets. > >Jeff D. >CH 601 HD > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Spar Rivet Line CH701
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Awhile back I called ZAC about a couple of bad holes in my spar cap. Nick advised me to drill out to the next larger size rivet. He said this was usually best solution. Jay...thanks for the info on the hole finder. I had seen those before but didn't understand their use until you explained it. Learn something new every day! Dave Clay Temple, TX 601XL scratch builder http://www.daves601xl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105412#105412 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Apr 06, 2007
Dave, Caleb, Ron, and Larry all have given you excellent advice. We surely are fortunate to have so many smart people to help us out. Seems like strategically placed fairleads would be appropriate. Of course your threaded rod will have to be 30mm longer since your bellcrank will be mounted 30mm forward. One thing to consider is how little the ailerons actually move from neutral ( 11.5 degrees up and down). Dave Clay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105413#105413 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Wright <davidhwright(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL
Date: Apr 07, 2007
Dave That was a question I meant to ask, the threaded steel rod I have (6- W-10-5) is 230mm long. What was the length of your threaded rod when you fitted it - I am hoping you are going to say you trimmed it down to less than 220mm!! Dave 61Xl Scratchbuild wings Washington UK On 7 Apr 2007, at 07:28, TxDave wrote: > > Dave, > > Caleb, Ron, and Larry all have given you excellent advice. We > surely are fortunate to have so many smart people to help us out. > Seems like strategically placed fairleads would be appropriate. Of > course your threaded rod will have to be 30mm longer since your > bellcrank will be mounted 30mm forward. One thing to consider is > how little the ailerons actually move from neutral ( 11.5 degrees > up and down). > > Dave Clay > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105413#105413 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Wright <davidhwright(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Lightening holes on rear ribs of 601XL
Date: Apr 07, 2007
Larry / Ron Thanks for the suggestions I will try with the string - My problem was that I have not started the fuselage and I could not visualise where the cables would exit the fuselage and enter the wing and at what angle the cables would run. I will trawl through my plans and see if I can find this info. As far as remaking parts (and remaking remade parts) - I don't know about the soul - but it is good for Aircraft Spruce and other aluminium suppliers! I wish it was only occasionally I remade parts - but I find that is the challenge of scratchbuilding as I progress I find that I am getting better at it and more able to read and understand the plans. I look back at some of my earlier work - rear wing ribs included, and know I could have done a better job. Dave 601XL Washington UK On 7 Apr 2007, at 02:11, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > David, > Jig up your bellcrank and find the swing of the expected arc > possible with max movements > using string if necessary. All the dimensions are there if you > stack them and you'll find out > how much the 30mm error means to the clearance you need. It may > have no consequence > or you may find the necessity of making a few ribs again. In any > case, don't despair as > all of us find ourselves in the same basket from time to time. > It's good for the soul to make > a few parts more than once occasionally. Good luck, > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > David Wright wrote: >> >> >> >> Gents >> >> I am scratchbuilding a 601 and am neck and neck with Dave Clay and >> Ron Lendon - however.... >> While putting together the parts for the right wing I noticed that >> I had made an error in measuring the location for the lightening >> holes for the rear ribs. I used the reference line on 6-W-6 top >> drawing to measure the position of the lightening holes. I >> measured the 120mm for the first hole from half way up the form >> block instead of the bottom corner (as is clearly shown in the >> drawing left side of middle row!) >> In consequence I now have 18 ribs, 9 of them rivetted into the >> right wing - all with the lightening holes 30mm forward of where >> they should be. >> I noticed this error when fitting the aileron bellcrank assembly. >> A possible problem I foresee is running the cables to the >> bellcrank - can anyone put me out of my misery - will the 30mm >> cause a problem running the aileron cables from the fuselage >> through the lightening holes - will there still be enough clearance?? >> I e-mailed Caleb at ZAC, but he was unable to assist as they don't >> have any open wings at Mexico. He suggested utilising fairleads >> if there was a problem. >> >> >> Dave Wright >> 601XL - scratchbuilding wings >> Washington UK >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2007

March 27, 2007 - April 07, 2007

Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-gq